All language subtitles for Perm.36.Reflection.2016.1080p.WEBRip.x265-RARBG2_English

af Afrikaans
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bn Bengali
bs Bosnian
bg Bulgarian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional) Download
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
km Khmer
ko Korean
ku Kurdish (Kurmanji)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Lao
la Latin
lv Latvian
lt Lithuanian
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
ne Nepali
no Norwegian
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt Portuguese
pa Punjabi
ro Romanian
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
st Sesotho
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhala
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish Download
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
te Telugu
th Thai
tr Turkish
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
or Odia (Oriya)
rw Kinyarwanda
tk Turkmen
tt Tatar
ug Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:18,580 --> 00:00:23,380 Produced by april filmlab in co-production with Reflexion Films 2 00:01:23,300 --> 00:01:27,020 PERM-36. REFLEXION 3 00:01:27,340 --> 00:01:30,740 A film by Sergei Kachkin 4 00:03:33,940 --> 00:03:38,699 Follow the guard's instruction 5 00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:43,459 Ministry of the Interior USSR FACILITY ВС389/36 6 00:03:43,460 --> 00:03:48,379 NCO Memorial Centre for the History of Political Repression "PERM-36" 7 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:52,340 MEMORIAL MUSEUM "PERM-36" 8 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:26,380 We are now on the territory of a very special museum. 9 00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:31,699 It is unique - the only Stalin-era Gulag 10 00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:35,380 preserved in the entire post-Soviet territory. 11 00:04:35,620 --> 00:04:37,859 Not just a single, freestanding building 12 00:04:37,860 --> 00:04:40,340 but one with the whole infrastructure intact. 13 00:04:41,020 --> 00:04:46,580 The museum began to emerge slowly and finally opened in 1994. 14 00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:51,540 Until then, this was a working prison camp. 15 00:04:51,860 --> 00:04:55,060 The camp was opened in 1946 16 00:04:55,620 --> 00:04:58,739 and we can divide its history into three parts. 17 00:04:58,740 --> 00:05:03,179 After it was opened in '46, people sentenced for 18 00:05:03,180 --> 00:05:06,860 so-called ‘domestic' crimes or petty theft were sent here. 19 00:05:07,060 --> 00:05:11,019 But time passes and with the death of the greatest leader of all time 20 00:05:11,020 --> 00:05:14,339 Comrade Stalin, in 1953, the situation in the country changed 21 00:05:14,340 --> 00:05:17,339 as did the situation in the camp. 22 00:05:17,340 --> 00:05:22,139 As fate would have it, none other than Beria's henchmen would be transferred here 23 00:05:22,140 --> 00:05:25,740 i.e. the very people who had carried out the illegal repression. 24 00:05:26,140 --> 00:05:31,459 Then, on July 13 1972 on conditions of utmost secrecy 25 00:05:31,460 --> 00:05:35,179 the first group of a hundred political prisoners 26 00:05:35,180 --> 00:05:38,660 from the Mordovian camps arrived at the Chusovskaya station. 27 00:05:38,740 --> 00:05:42,659 And two prison colonies were opened: Perm-35 and Perm-36. 28 00:05:42,660 --> 00:05:46,379 Four years later the Perm-37 compound was also opened. 29 00:05:46,380 --> 00:05:51,500 In this way the notorious Perm Triangle of political prison camps was formed. 30 00:05:52,260 --> 00:05:56,619 That is the history of this camp where we now are. 31 00:05:56,620 --> 00:06:02,619 The last prisoner here was released on December 27, 1987. 32 00:06:02,620 --> 00:06:05,259 Fifteen years after, the camp had been converted 33 00:06:05,260 --> 00:06:08,500 into a high-security compound for political prisoners. 34 00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:21,259 The first time I came here to the Museum of Political Repression 35 00:06:21,260 --> 00:06:25,420 was entirely by chance ten years ago. 36 00:06:26,580 --> 00:06:28,779 At that time I accompanied a Scot 37 00:06:28,780 --> 00:06:31,500 who was studying the Russian language and culture. 38 00:06:34,580 --> 00:06:38,380 It so happened that I would later come back here again and again 39 00:06:38,540 --> 00:06:41,740 with friends from Russia and from abroad. 40 00:06:43,260 --> 00:06:46,140 And each time I discovered something new… 41 00:06:46,740 --> 00:06:49,020 for example, that in the 1970s 42 00:06:49,060 --> 00:06:54,420 people were imprisoned here for disagreeing with the official position of the State 43 00:06:54,820 --> 00:06:58,899 while in the 1980s they were imprisoned for collecting certain literature 44 00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:02,820 which you can now find in any bookstore. 45 00:07:07,220 --> 00:07:10,420 The camp was active during the years I was a schoolchild 46 00:07:10,740 --> 00:07:14,660 so I had no conscious perception of its existence. 47 00:07:20,460 --> 00:07:25,500 The camp, now a museum, is located 80 km from Perm, 48 00:07:25,940 --> 00:07:28,700 the city where I was born and grew up. 49 00:07:29,380 --> 00:07:32,700 And so, over time, I wanted to meet 50 00:07:32,940 --> 00:07:36,900 with someone who was imprisoned here. 51 00:07:38,660 --> 00:07:41,700 I'm sure I was not the only one and probably because of this 52 00:07:42,220 --> 00:07:47,980 the Museum Administration invited some former political prisoners. 53 00:07:50,260 --> 00:07:54,980 That time, a worker from an electrical engineering plant from the city of Sverdlovsk 54 00:07:55,380 --> 00:07:57,380 (now Yekaterinburg) turned up. 55 00:08:25,060 --> 00:08:27,139 We are now situated in one of the four 56 00:08:27,140 --> 00:08:29,580 sleeping-quarters of the prison barracks. 57 00:08:29,940 --> 00:08:33,179 This is how the sleeping-quarters 58 00:08:33,180 --> 00:08:37,539 of the Perm-36 camp looked like in the early period of its existence, 59 00:08:37,540 --> 00:08:42,980 that is in Autumn 1946 when the camp was opened. 60 00:08:43,100 --> 00:08:48,940 There were bunk beds, the four-bed wooden plank bunks. 61 00:08:49,420 --> 00:08:51,980 Basically this is all the décor there was. 62 00:08:52,060 --> 00:08:57,260 Now you can get a first-hand account of how it was. 63 00:08:57,700 --> 00:09:04,300 With us today is a former prisoner from the final period of this camp's existence. 64 00:09:04,420 --> 00:09:07,059 I'm sure that you all have questions 65 00:09:07,060 --> 00:09:10,980 about how people lived here. 66 00:09:13,020 --> 00:09:15,979 Let me introduce myself. I am Victor Pestov, 67 00:09:15,980 --> 00:09:18,020 born in 1946. 68 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:22,859 I served a five year sentence here for anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda, 69 00:09:22,860 --> 00:09:25,020 (Article 70), 70 00:09:25,180 --> 00:09:29,739 subversion and organizing activity Intended to overthrow 71 00:09:29,740 --> 00:09:32,580 the Soviet System (Article 72). 72 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:36,380 A category of particularly dangerous state prisoners. 73 00:09:38,220 --> 00:09:45,499 I discovered this when I was taken to the KGB headquarters 74 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:51,020 of Sverdlovsk Region and given the Penal Code to read. 75 00:09:51,860 --> 00:09:54,140 We were involved in organizing 76 00:09:54,460 --> 00:09:58,900 an underground anti-Communist organization. 77 00:09:59,300 --> 00:10:01,540 We named it "Free Russia", 78 00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:05,620 it comprised of myself, my brother, 79 00:10:06,140 --> 00:10:10,180 Kolya Shaburov, Volodya Bersenyov and Vladik Uzlov. 80 00:10:11,020 --> 00:10:13,539 Vladik Uzlov was a student 81 00:10:13,540 --> 00:10:17,939 The rest of us worked in plants and factories. 82 00:10:17,940 --> 00:10:24,500 We started organizing in 1968. 83 00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:28,140 And insofar as my mother worked for the KGB 84 00:10:28,620 --> 00:10:32,860 I managed to quiz her and find out certain things. 85 00:10:33,820 --> 00:10:38,940 I told the lads that we should buy carbon and paper for future, 86 00:10:39,140 --> 00:10:44,139 use at different places and that typewriters needed to be bought second-hand 87 00:10:44,140 --> 00:10:46,460 because my mother told me that they were 88 00:10:46,820 --> 00:10:50,500 all registered, so that if you bought them in a shop 89 00:10:51,620 --> 00:10:54,620 then the typeface specimens were sent on to the KGB. 90 00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:57,819 We went to craftsmen and they sold us 91 00:10:57,820 --> 00:11:03,340 a 1933 ‘ReinMetall' typewriter for 40 roubles. 92 00:11:03,580 --> 00:11:06,099 We also came to an agreement that they would 93 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:08,700 resolder the fonts, which they were happy to do. 94 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:13,260 We issued five different leaflets. 95 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:18,420 We distributed them on November 7th 1969 96 00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:27,299 and then on April 25th i.e. Easter 1970, 97 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:33,200 the last leaflets issued were on May 1st ‘70 in the city of Sverdlovsk. 98 00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:39,260 Kolya Shaburov went to the Latvian city of Liepāja (near Leningrad). 99 00:11:39,940 --> 00:11:42,700 He travelled and contacted a friend 100 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:45,379 with whom he had studied at a training college. 101 00:11:45,380 --> 00:11:47,620 But his friend denounced him. 102 00:11:48,380 --> 00:11:51,100 Then we were sent to Mordovia [camp]. 103 00:11:51,580 --> 00:11:54,179 We served some of our sentence in Mordovia 104 00:11:54,180 --> 00:12:01,139 but since information was leaking out to western radio stations 105 00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:05,700 they decided to transfer the main group of prisoners to the Perm region. 106 00:12:06,180 --> 00:12:08,900 So my brother and I ended up here. 107 00:12:09,140 --> 00:12:14,220 He took the bottom bunk here and I the top one. 108 00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:22,339 Then in 1975 I was released and from ‘76 to ‘91 109 00:12:22,340 --> 00:12:28,419 we again organized underground. We paid dues, 110 00:12:28,420 --> 00:12:32,699 and had typewriters and photographic labs. 111 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:35,619 We continued to have the same organization as before 112 00:12:35,620 --> 00:12:40,620 but our circle mainly consisted of former political prisoners. 113 00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:46,099 You said that your mother was in the KGB, |what happened to her career? 114 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:50,339 Yes, yes… She was relieved of her duties at her own request. 115 00:12:50,340 --> 00:12:53,419 So after that for about a year 116 00:12:53,420 --> 00:12:56,940 she could find no work anywhere, 117 00:12:57,220 --> 00:13:02,220 she got a job as a cleaner even though she had been a Colonel in the KGB. 118 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:07,579 It was rather awkward when I was released but I came out 119 00:13:07,580 --> 00:13:13,260 and told her "I am guilty of what happened in your life." 120 00:13:13,500 --> 00:13:17,499 She told me to forget about it and that I shouldn't worry about it. 121 00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:19,820 Everything very ‘Russian-style'. 122 00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:24,579 Things weren't so easy with my father. They had divorced. 123 00:13:24,580 --> 00:13:28,340 He filed for divorce when we were imprisoned. 124 00:13:33,940 --> 00:13:37,260 At that time of year there are only a few visitors to the museum. 125 00:13:37,660 --> 00:13:42,660 Whereas in the summer there can be thousands in one weekend. 126 00:13:43,980 --> 00:13:47,379 And this is large part due to the fact that the administration 127 00:13:47,380 --> 00:13:50,260 of the museum organizes an International Civic Forum. 128 00:13:50,740 --> 00:13:53,339 It is entitled Pilorama (sawmill) 129 00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:55,420 where the prisoners used to work. 130 00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:00,260 All that has remained of this place today 131 00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:02,740 is the skeleton and the platform. 132 00:14:10,180 --> 00:14:11,780 How quiet… 133 00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:15,540 not a sound. 134 00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:21,740 The smoldering of the final embers of coal seems almost audible … 135 00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:24,540 now just slag. 136 00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:29,660 The stoker brought it here on a cart and dumped it in a pile. 137 00:14:33,420 --> 00:14:38,820 The literary scholar Mikhail Meylakh worked in this very boiler room 138 00:14:39,140 --> 00:14:41,300 when he was imprisoned here. 139 00:14:42,540 --> 00:14:46,620 And from the words of Meylakh himself this work had one advantage - 140 00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:50,980 it allowed one at least some relief from the routine of the camp. 141 00:14:59,740 --> 00:15:02,140 We are now located in the room with 142 00:15:02,380 --> 00:15:05,620 a small-scale model of the Kolyma prison barracks. 143 00:15:05,860 --> 00:15:09,139 The geographical aspect is not so important 144 00:15:09,140 --> 00:15:12,940 as there was little variety in the interiors of the camps. 145 00:15:15,060 --> 00:15:20,500 Prisoners had no thermometers and could only measure the temperature in this way: 146 00:15:20,620 --> 00:15:23,459 if it was misty behind the windows then it was -40 °C, 147 00:15:23,460 --> 00:15:27,059 if it was difficult to breathe then it was -50 °C 148 00:15:27,060 --> 00:15:29,299 and if spittle freezes in the air, 149 00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:32,660 (that's no metaphor) then it's -60 °C. 150 00:15:38,860 --> 00:15:42,339 The prisoners didn't always stay inside in these temperatures, 151 00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:44,859 they were sent out to do common labour: 152 00:15:44,860 --> 00:15:48,659 they mined gold, tin, uranium ore and coal. 153 00:15:48,660 --> 00:15:51,379 They literally extracted it with their bare hands. 154 00:15:51,380 --> 00:15:55,260 The only tools they had were crowbars, wheelbarrows and spades. 155 00:15:57,340 --> 00:16:01,780 Obviously in such conditions and at such temperatures 156 00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:04,980 people didn't survive for long. 157 00:16:07,580 --> 00:16:12,700 On average a prisoner sent to Kolyma would survive 5-6 months 158 00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:20,300 The whole country was full of these yellow circles on the map 159 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,540 industrialisation sites. 160 00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:27,739 The first Five-Year Plan was a plan for industrialisation. 161 00:16:27,740 --> 00:16:31,460 From an agrarian country Russia should become an industrial one. 162 00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:37,139 That was all very fine in theory – here is the "UralMash" plant, 163 00:16:37,140 --> 00:16:39,779 here is the "Chelyabinsk Tractors", here... 164 00:16:39,780 --> 00:16:42,100 is the "Dnepro HydroElectric Power Station". 165 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:45,099 This is all good but near every circle, 166 00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:48,540 in each of the squares on the map there were up to 200 prison camps. 167 00:16:49,340 --> 00:16:54,259 Look at Magadan - it is 7,000 km from the centre by land 168 00:16:54,260 --> 00:16:56,379 and 3,000 km by sea. 169 00:16:56,380 --> 00:16:58,779 Who would ever go there voluntarily? Nobody! 170 00:16:58,780 --> 00:17:01,660 The whole of Kolyma rests on the bones of prisoners. 171 00:17:04,780 --> 00:17:10,099 As far as women were concerned this is a separate story to be told. 172 00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:12,219 In 1937 a secret order was made 173 00:17:12,220 --> 00:17:16,780 to arrest women whose husbands had already been arrested. 174 00:17:16,820 --> 00:17:20,219 Simply for not having denounced their husbands, 175 00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:23,219 women and children were repressed. 176 00:17:23,220 --> 00:17:27,660 And one of the most terrible female camps was the "Alzhir" Camp. 177 00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:32,860 The abbreviation stood for The ‘Akmolonsky Camp for Wives of Motherland Traitors'. 178 00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:38,300 As we said the camps were called ‘reform-labour camps' 179 00:17:38,620 --> 00:17:41,259 but, of course, they reformed no one. 180 00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:44,099 The people, with their bitter sense of irony gave them 181 00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:47,220 a more accurate description: deform-labour camps. 182 00:18:19,780 --> 00:18:27,260 Creep out, you bourgeois! We will put you on trial. 183 00:18:27,620 --> 00:18:34,140 You will pay for your treason. 184 00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:36,859 Communist Party of the Russian Federation (CPRF) 185 00:18:36,860 --> 00:18:40,779 Birds sing and mosquitoes drone, 186 00:18:40,780 --> 00:18:44,780 And a dead bourgeois exudes such a stench! 187 00:18:57,860 --> 00:19:07,899 A-frame sign: We'll struggle together until victory! 188 00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:13,180 CPRF Sergei Andriyanov 189 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:24,940 Komarovo 190 00:19:26,020 --> 00:19:29,500 A village of summer houses on the coast of the Gulf of Finland. 191 00:19:32,020 --> 00:19:33,780 Mikhail Meylakh 192 00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:36,980 nowadays a Professor at the University of Strasburg, 193 00:19:38,060 --> 00:19:41,140 came here immediately after being released from the camp. 194 00:19:43,180 --> 00:19:45,340 Here in seclusion 195 00:19:45,820 --> 00:19:49,500 he could recover from the experience of several years of camp life. 196 00:19:52,540 --> 00:19:54,300 Today too, Mikhail Borisovich, 197 00:19:54,620 --> 00:19:57,580 while living between Strasbourg and Saint Petersburg 198 00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:01,420 often comes here during the winter and summer holidays. 199 00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:09,340 I feel a little uncomfortable talking about myself but... 200 00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:13,020 in some way I always went against the trend. 201 00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:22,380 Even at primary school my teacher said: 202 00:20:23,140 --> 00:20:26,899 all kids are kids (deti) but he's a ‘myslete'. 203 00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:31,340 Rather witty as ‘myslete' is also the name of the letter M in Old Church Slavonic 204 00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:35,019 and both my name and surname begin with the letter M. 205 00:20:35,020 --> 00:20:37,180 Of course... 206 00:20:40,220 --> 00:20:43,059 one of the circumstances leading to my imprisonment 207 00:20:43,060 --> 00:20:45,819 was that I went to visit Brodsky when he was in exile 208 00:20:45,820 --> 00:20:48,020 and that was well known. 209 00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:51,100 That was sufficient. 210 00:20:53,260 --> 00:20:58,980 But the direct cause of my imprisonment was that for years I collected 211 00:20:59,980 --> 00:21:03,660 books in Russian published abroad. 212 00:21:05,340 --> 00:21:07,620 So-called ‘tamizdat'. 213 00:21:08,660 --> 00:21:13,540 All these books were kept in the house of an old lady. 214 00:21:14,860 --> 00:21:19,540 It's extraordinary that after her death 215 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:26,140 it became known that in the years of the Stalinist Terrors she was a snitch 216 00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:29,700 and she had been planted on Akhmatova. 217 00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:32,539 Well in any case, they lay there and I decided 218 00:21:32,540 --> 00:21:36,259 to use these books, as did my closest friends. 219 00:21:36,260 --> 00:21:39,539 Everything was fine. Then she had cancer... 220 00:21:39,540 --> 00:21:43,579 She lived on her own and so we needed to move these books. 221 00:21:43,580 --> 00:21:47,459 I gave them to one person who was very careless 222 00:21:47,460 --> 00:21:50,580 with them and eventually he was caught. 223 00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:55,300 But when they arrested him 224 00:21:56,340 --> 00:22:01,220 then I, being very naïve in this, 225 00:22:02,860 --> 00:22:07,139 decided simply to leave for Moscow. 226 00:22:07,140 --> 00:22:09,980 This was possible during Stalin's Terror, 227 00:22:10,380 --> 00:22:15,980 to leave for another city, that had a different security service team. 228 00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:20,939 Generally a person could hide 229 00:22:20,940 --> 00:22:24,059 at least until he attracted further attention. 230 00:22:24,060 --> 00:22:28,139 This is how Lidia Chukovskaya behaved back 231 00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:30,859 when they arrested her husband and it was clear 232 00:22:30,860 --> 00:22:33,259 that she would be the next victim. 233 00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:35,259 So she simply left for Moscow. 234 00:22:35,260 --> 00:22:37,179 There were many such cases. 235 00:22:37,180 --> 00:22:39,940 But now times had changed. 236 00:22:40,980 --> 00:22:43,860 When they eventually arrested me 237 00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:52,500 I understood from their telephone conversations 238 00:22:52,860 --> 00:22:56,500 that they needed to dismantle checkpoints, and something else... 239 00:22:56,540 --> 00:23:00,499 then I understood that they had been chasing me around Moscow for two weeks. 240 00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:02,820 And I was traveling in Moscow by car. 241 00:23:03,460 --> 00:23:05,619 Just imagine how badly they worked? 242 00:23:05,620 --> 00:23:09,620 There's a myth that people in the KGB were clever, 243 00:23:11,740 --> 00:23:16,780 that at least they 'knew their trade', 244 00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:19,620 if one can express oneself in that way. 245 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:25,900 In reality they botched things up just like everyone else at that time. 246 00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:29,980 They simply had impunity. 247 00:23:30,620 --> 00:23:35,260 They could use means unavailable to others. 248 00:23:35,820 --> 00:23:41,699 Because they were lazy they mainly listened in to telephone conversations. 249 00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:47,780 I knew about that and I never called anyone in Moscow by phone. 250 00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:51,700 Well when I left the city 251 00:23:53,860 --> 00:23:56,460 to visit a female friend 252 00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:01,780 they located me by my car plates. 253 00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:06,580 There were a number of cases in my life 254 00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:12,860 when in a split second you discover or see something 255 00:24:14,180 --> 00:24:18,539 that completely changes your life 256 00:24:18,540 --> 00:24:22,100 and you know it will never be the same again. 257 00:24:22,460 --> 00:24:25,940 So when they showed me their KGB ID card, 258 00:24:26,380 --> 00:24:28,980 I understood that everything was over. 259 00:25:10,780 --> 00:25:14,260 Here at least there is a special climate … 260 00:25:16,820 --> 00:25:21,260 a short while ago, the gusty wind shook the branches 261 00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:23,820 and the cotton-like snow swirled around. 262 00:25:25,540 --> 00:25:28,300 But already by midday it disappeared somewhere 263 00:25:29,180 --> 00:25:31,100 and then things became very quiet. 264 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:33,620 But for how long? 265 00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:47,300 Mikhail Borisovich was freed as a result of a humiliating pardon 266 00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:52,220 which he could only accept after acknowledging his guilt. 267 00:25:54,420 --> 00:25:57,900 His need to return home was spurred on by his father's illness, 268 00:25:58,580 --> 00:26:02,260 who died half a year after his son returned. 269 00:26:08,940 --> 00:26:14,700 Joseph Brodsky first met Anna Akhmatova here at Komarovo. 270 00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:22,220 He claimed that he owed all his best human qualities to her. 271 00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:27,660 After Anna Andreevna's death, 272 00:26:28,060 --> 00:26:30,580 Brodsky had to organise her burial. 273 00:26:32,180 --> 00:26:35,820 But the authorities didn't want to permit her burial in a place 274 00:26:36,380 --> 00:26:39,300 where people could freely visit her grave. 275 00:26:47,420 --> 00:26:50,660 This is Akhmatova's grave, rather a strange one. 276 00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:57,300 That wall is made from Izborsk stone, from near Pskov. 277 00:26:57,980 --> 00:27:00,619 The cross was made by Old Believers from Pskov 278 00:27:00,620 --> 00:27:03,500 even though of course she was no Old Believer. 279 00:27:04,580 --> 00:27:11,220 A profile of Modigliani has been attached to this wall. 280 00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:15,100 The funeral was in 1966. 281 00:27:15,860 --> 00:27:18,900 There was a huge crowd of people here. 282 00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:27,219 Her own grave is not here, not under the cross. 283 00:27:27,220 --> 00:27:29,340 It's somewhere here. 284 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:35,380 Later all this was moved because of this architectural ensemble 285 00:27:35,620 --> 00:27:40,820 which Lev Gumilev (her son) had thought up. 286 00:27:43,580 --> 00:27:45,980 This is our family vault. 287 00:27:47,780 --> 00:27:52,380 Here is my father, mother and little son. 288 00:27:54,060 --> 00:27:56,820 For some reason nearly all 289 00:27:58,260 --> 00:28:01,380 the elements of the monument are oriental. 290 00:28:01,820 --> 00:28:06,140 This monument is a copy of an architectural detail 291 00:28:07,540 --> 00:28:12,660 of a cathedral in Svetitskhoveli, Georgia. 292 00:28:13,820 --> 00:28:16,180 This is a very early cathedral, 293 00:28:17,580 --> 00:28:21,580 apparently the 6th or 7th century. 294 00:28:22,060 --> 00:28:24,859 And this is an Armenian lion. 295 00:28:24,860 --> 00:28:27,259 My son was called Leo 296 00:28:27,260 --> 00:28:29,540 and I also found this 297 00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:36,980 ancient Armenian image of a lion. 298 00:28:41,140 --> 00:28:43,660 There is a kind of poetry in cemeteries, 299 00:28:44,180 --> 00:28:48,379 they were especially loved in the epoch of Sentimentalism. 300 00:28:48,380 --> 00:28:51,459 Thomas Gray has a famous poem 301 00:28:51,460 --> 00:28:54,539 "Elegy written in a country churchyard". 302 00:28:54,540 --> 00:28:58,539 Well cemeteries are as old as man. 303 00:28:58,540 --> 00:29:01,900 And archaeology makes use of this fact. 304 00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:07,539 In ancient times people were buried with many objects 305 00:29:07,540 --> 00:29:10,260 they would need in the afterlife. 306 00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:14,420 I always say that one's heirs should be buried 307 00:29:15,220 --> 00:29:19,379 if they have author's rights along with the deceased 308 00:29:19,380 --> 00:29:23,499 just as they buried leaders with their wives or with their horse 309 00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:27,940 because all the serious trouble begins with the heirs. 310 00:29:39,540 --> 00:29:42,340 On the first day it felt rather amused being in jail. 311 00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:46,299 And then I began to reflect upon this 312 00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:52,259 and decided that I was one of many millions, 313 00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:57,419 maybe 40 million, maybe 60 million. No one knows exactly 314 00:29:57,420 --> 00:30:01,580 So there was no real reason to make a 'big deal' over it. 315 00:30:03,340 --> 00:30:07,100 I had one principle: not to name anybody. 316 00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:12,179 I was already there, they would do what they want with me anyway. 317 00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:18,940 But I should not name a single name and I kept strictly to this principle. 318 00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:24,179 I even taunted them to entertain myself. 319 00:30:24,180 --> 00:30:26,820 My sense of humour didn't abandon me. 320 00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:30,219 It's amazing that when I got to know about my case, 321 00:30:30,220 --> 00:30:35,379 then it was prescribed by law, I had to read the whole case 322 00:30:35,380 --> 00:30:38,180 and the case ran to six volumes. 323 00:30:39,460 --> 00:30:44,339 Such a fuss about the possession and 324 00:30:44,340 --> 00:30:47,420 circulation of Solzhenitsyn and Mandelshtam. 325 00:30:49,220 --> 00:30:55,780 It was in that first period when they were hoping that I would collaborate with them. 326 00:30:56,180 --> 00:31:00,339 I demanded that they give me a manuscript of my book in the cell 327 00:31:00,340 --> 00:31:02,619 which they had taken in the search. 328 00:31:02,620 --> 00:31:05,900 When they did the search hey didn't really understand things, 329 00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:09,540 just taking what they could. They had taken a manuscript of a book 330 00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:15,020 already ready for publication, which was later published in the ‘90s. 331 00:31:16,140 --> 00:31:22,140 This was my translation of the life histories of troubadours in literature. 332 00:31:22,460 --> 00:31:24,939 It seemed such a reputable volume. 333 00:31:24,940 --> 00:31:29,059 There was already the "Confirmed for Publication" stamp 334 00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:33,740 so they had to give me the manuscript. 335 00:31:33,860 --> 00:31:38,499 With the aim of forging a relationship with me they gave it to me in my cell. 336 00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:40,739 And I was busy at it for a month. 337 00:31:40,740 --> 00:31:43,220 And then when relations worsened 338 00:31:44,540 --> 00:31:49,219 they told me that they would take it away from me. 339 00:31:49,220 --> 00:31:51,020 What to do with it? 340 00:31:51,980 --> 00:31:55,779 In fact they asked me. I told them to give it to my co-author, 341 00:31:55,780 --> 00:31:58,419 the now deceased Nadezhda Rykova 342 00:31:58,420 --> 00:32:02,660 with whom I'd worked together on a part of the book. 343 00:32:03,940 --> 00:32:08,059 She was a member of the Writers' Union and also a respected person 344 00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:10,500 even though she too had been to jail in her time. 345 00:32:11,020 --> 00:32:13,139 They agreed. 346 00:32:13,140 --> 00:32:19,980 On the last day I decided that I couldn't let the book get away 'naked' so to say. 347 00:32:20,380 --> 00:32:22,459 So I did the following: 348 00:32:22,460 --> 00:32:27,860 I wrote a letter in Latin. 349 00:32:29,260 --> 00:32:32,179 and I outdid them, writing them notes stating 350 00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:36,940 that I didn't have a Latin dictionary and so I couldn't translate that text. 351 00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:40,059 Please translate it yourselves. 352 00:32:40,060 --> 00:32:42,900 And they had to swallow that too. 353 00:32:43,220 --> 00:32:47,699 So they themselves released a letter to the outside world - simply nothing worse 354 00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:51,260 could happen to them. It is called a leak of information. 355 00:32:51,780 --> 00:32:57,380 What information? None of it was worth a damn thing. 356 00:32:58,380 --> 00:33:01,539 And in the letter there was a sentence 357 00:33:01,540 --> 00:33:05,580 which really offended them saying 358 00:33:06,460 --> 00:33:11,059 that speaking with them was like teaching a crocodile vegetarianism. 359 00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:14,739 They asked "so we're the crocodiles?" 360 00:33:14,740 --> 00:33:18,379 Hilarious. Of course they are crocodiles. 361 00:33:18,380 --> 00:33:22,459 I told them that what wonderful power they had 362 00:33:22,460 --> 00:33:27,580 if it could be subverted by a few odd books. 363 00:33:28,020 --> 00:33:33,739 So they found that they had really messed things up, 364 00:33:33,740 --> 00:33:37,780 that they had delivered a letter to the outside world with their own hands. 365 00:33:38,580 --> 00:33:42,819 I heard that the chief of this investigation department 366 00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:47,140 apparently had a heart attack because of this. 367 00:34:15,580 --> 00:34:20,019 At school I was straight sent into the second year because I already knew 368 00:34:20,020 --> 00:34:25,659 how to read and write and even knew English which I was taught from the age of 3. 369 00:34:25,660 --> 00:34:29,579 And so from that almost ivory tower-like home environment 370 00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:34,180 in a family of professors I found myself suddenly thrown into a madhouse. 371 00:34:34,420 --> 00:34:37,300 On my first day I went to the school doctor, 372 00:34:37,780 --> 00:34:41,019 I thought that just one illness was not enough 373 00:34:41,020 --> 00:34:45,139 and said "let me go home, my stomach and throat hurts". 374 00:34:45,140 --> 00:34:48,419 And then the torment began. 375 00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:53,419 One day we were asked to bring some scrap metal to class. 376 00:34:53,420 --> 00:34:56,499 I looked around me on my way home from school 377 00:34:56,500 --> 00:34:59,260 and couldn't find any anywhere. 378 00:34:59,700 --> 00:35:03,539 Then I went for a stroll along the Field of Mars where we lived. 379 00:35:03,540 --> 00:35:05,900 I live there now too. 380 00:35:07,860 --> 00:35:12,980 And then on the mass grave of the victims of revolution 381 00:35:13,420 --> 00:35:16,220 although its victims were quite the others - 382 00:35:19,220 --> 00:35:23,820 I saw some rusty wreaths, completely of no use to anyone, 383 00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:28,180 powdered with snow, as it was winter. 384 00:35:28,380 --> 00:35:31,980 I decided that I had found some scrap metal. Great! 385 00:35:32,340 --> 00:35:36,540 I took those wreaths and dragged them to school. 386 00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:39,180 There was a terrible scandal. 387 00:35:40,940 --> 00:35:43,340 From there it only got worse. 388 00:35:44,140 --> 00:35:48,220 About a year after the death of Stalin 389 00:35:49,620 --> 00:35:54,940 a fleet of British warships 390 00:35:55,460 --> 00:35:57,660 docked at the Neva [River]. 391 00:35:58,140 --> 00:36:00,299 Everyone went to look at them. 392 00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:02,499 We were strictly warned 393 00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:08,339 that we mustn't talk to the British sailors 394 00:36:08,340 --> 00:36:11,979 who left the ships and walked through Leningrad. 395 00:36:11,980 --> 00:36:23,260 One dark evening I ran into some British soldiers in Palace Square returning from school. 396 00:36:24,220 --> 00:36:30,580 Since I already spoke fluent English the temptation was just too great. 397 00:36:31,060 --> 00:36:35,180 So we started talking. 398 00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:40,940 They were astonished that a little boy was speaking English and, 399 00:36:41,380 --> 00:36:44,739 to make things worse, they invited me on to the ship. 400 00:36:44,740 --> 00:36:47,820 Well, how could a little boy resist that? 401 00:36:49,220 --> 00:36:53,180 They waited for a boat near the Hermitage 402 00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:57,459 and they took me on to the ship, 403 00:36:57,460 --> 00:37:01,419 showed me around, we spoke about Shakespeare 404 00:37:01,420 --> 00:37:05,820 who I had already read in the retelling by Charles and Mary Lamb. 405 00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:11,819 They gave me some English tea to drink and brought me back to shore. 406 00:37:11,820 --> 00:37:13,939 As soon as they sailed off 407 00:37:13,940 --> 00:37:17,659 some men were already waiting for me 408 00:37:17,660 --> 00:37:21,499 and grabbed me by my arm, taking me to the police 409 00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:23,780 where they had summoned my father. 410 00:37:24,620 --> 00:37:27,620 Well that was the second terrible scandal. 411 00:37:30,060 --> 00:37:32,180 Things continued like that 412 00:37:34,460 --> 00:37:39,020 Worse and worse. I was fated to go to jail. 413 00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:51,539 As far as the trial went I didn't stay silent like Lev Timofeyev 414 00:37:51,540 --> 00:37:54,099 but attempted to play games with them. 415 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:58,419 They managed to dig things out from the witnesses. 416 00:37:58,420 --> 00:38:03,299 My misfortune was to be arrested with a notebook on me. 417 00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:09,259 For them this was a tasty morsel they could use to torment people for a whole year. 418 00:38:09,260 --> 00:38:12,659 The majority of witnesses said that they didn't know anything 419 00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:15,099 but all the same they named something or other. 420 00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:19,420 The fact that I had given them something to read was very useful for them. 421 00:38:20,060 --> 00:38:23,300 They managed to collect a certain amount of evidence. 422 00:38:28,660 --> 00:38:33,259 At that time there were two articles in the law about anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda. 423 00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:37,859 One article (170) was simply for anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda. 424 00:38:37,860 --> 00:38:41,660 For this they gave 3 years in a usual camp with a customary regime. 425 00:38:42,860 --> 00:38:47,699 Then there was article 70: anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda 426 00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:50,460 with the aim of subverting Soviet power. 427 00:38:50,540 --> 00:38:56,659 How to define this – it was hard to define who had aim and who didn't. 428 00:38:56,660 --> 00:38:59,620 Anyway they stitched me up with this aim clause. 429 00:39:00,140 --> 00:39:05,339 In short, this article had a punishment of up to 7 years of prison camp 430 00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:08,299 and then 5 years of internal banishment after that: 431 00:39:08,300 --> 00:39:11,620 this is the sentence that I faced: 7 plus 5. 432 00:39:11,940 --> 00:39:15,619 Then when I saw the television in the court room 433 00:39:15,620 --> 00:39:19,380 then I got really angry 434 00:39:19,780 --> 00:39:22,259 and abandoned all my testimony, 435 00:39:22,260 --> 00:39:25,179 although I hadn't given them any particular evidence. 436 00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:28,539 I declared that I didn't consider myself guilty in any way 437 00:39:28,540 --> 00:39:31,499 and that let them rant on with their 438 00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:37,180 ‘subverting', ‘possession' and ‘distribution'. 439 00:39:39,060 --> 00:39:41,700 After that... 440 00:39:42,140 --> 00:39:44,900 the procurator and the judge... 441 00:39:48,740 --> 00:39:54,020 did what they wanted, simply to continue with the trial 442 00:39:55,340 --> 00:39:58,299 and so they gave me the maximum sentence. 443 00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:01,259 Also because of my behaviour during the investigation: 444 00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:04,820 for the letter, for my jokes and for everything. 445 00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:12,739 There were some very difficult moments, 446 00:40:12,740 --> 00:40:17,140 I had an illness from which I almost died. 447 00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:22,540 I asked the doctor whether I would recover 448 00:40:23,420 --> 00:40:25,740 and he said ‘fifty-fifty'. 449 00:40:27,060 --> 00:40:32,179 And I understood that if I gave into the course of the illness 450 00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:34,979 and there had already been intestinal paralysis 451 00:40:34,980 --> 00:40:37,740 and a complete stop to all my bodily functions… 452 00:40:38,620 --> 00:40:41,499 I understood that if I stopped fighting this illness 453 00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:44,339 then one could say that I could calmly slip into death. 454 00:40:44,340 --> 00:40:46,539 And I must say I even wanted this to happen. 455 00:40:46,540 --> 00:40:48,820 Because then it was considered, 456 00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:53,660 or, rather, seemed (it was indeed the case at that time) 457 00:40:53,860 --> 00:40:55,939 that I would never get out of that place. 458 00:40:55,940 --> 00:40:59,219 By not admitting my guilt then according 459 00:40:59,220 --> 00:41:03,699 to a Soviet perspective I was guilty for life. 460 00:41:03,700 --> 00:41:05,819 And the procurator told me 461 00:41:05,820 --> 00:41:09,260 "you'll never see Leningrad or your parents again". 462 00:41:09,860 --> 00:41:15,540 In those cases one sentence ended and you're sent down again for some triviality. 463 00:41:16,700 --> 00:41:18,860 So one way or another... 464 00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:24,019 like in Vvedensky's ‘Christmas at the Ivanov's'... 465 00:41:24,020 --> 00:41:26,660 as the boy says "How I want to die". 466 00:41:27,980 --> 00:41:29,780 But... 467 00:41:30,260 --> 00:41:33,619 I felt pity for my dear ones, 468 00:41:33,620 --> 00:41:36,779 my parents, above all. 469 00:41:36,780 --> 00:41:41,980 And I began to struggle for life and somehow pulled through. 470 00:41:43,180 --> 00:41:48,300 For my parents I'm sure it was a worse ordeal than for me. 471 00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:52,580 It wasn't such a pleasant life there. 472 00:41:53,140 --> 00:41:55,980 But there were some special moments as, 473 00:41:56,940 --> 00:42:01,060 for example, when I worked as a stoker at different shifts. 474 00:42:01,860 --> 00:42:05,860 That was a great advantage in that you could somehow ‘drop out' of the routine. 475 00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:09,340 Although, it was very heavy work. 476 00:42:09,660 --> 00:42:11,859 But when everything was already done: 477 00:42:11,860 --> 00:42:14,539 first you have to break the coal into pieces, 478 00:42:14,540 --> 00:42:17,099 then it is taken to the cart, throw into the stove 479 00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:19,939 and the stove is cleaned and the smell of the cart with 480 00:42:19,940 --> 00:42:24,739 all its smoky slag hits you... 481 00:42:24,740 --> 00:42:29,260 and when all this is done and you go out into the Urals night 482 00:42:30,340 --> 00:42:34,459 and look at the stars as big as my fist, 483 00:42:34,460 --> 00:42:38,020 this is, indeed, real happiness. 484 00:42:41,820 --> 00:42:45,180 As smoke over dampened flame 485 00:42:45,740 --> 00:42:48,700 the news stalks forth, and the word 486 00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:51,939 comes blended with the name 487 00:42:51,940 --> 00:42:54,140 in the accusatory case. 488 00:42:54,700 --> 00:42:57,020 At first inarticulate, as if 489 00:42:57,220 --> 00:42:59,420 some acoustic vessel 490 00:42:59,820 --> 00:43:02,539 was sailing out of the nether realm 491 00:43:02,540 --> 00:43:05,380 of Babylonian distant chaos, 492 00:43:05,660 --> 00:43:09,019 then, massing into a single sound scale, 493 00:43:09,020 --> 00:43:11,819 fricatives, affricates, sibilants burst forth 494 00:43:11,820 --> 00:43:15,099 making a rustling grove, 495 00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:18,219 a phonetic orchard 496 00:43:18,220 --> 00:43:21,779 blossom in backstreets, along the porches, 497 00:43:21,780 --> 00:43:24,619 along the corners of shabby flats, 498 00:43:24,620 --> 00:43:27,619 coming with the stealthy radio waves 499 00:43:27,620 --> 00:43:30,539 that plough the glacial clouds, 500 00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:34,299 and this passive voice fills 501 00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:37,499 the hoarse air of the two capitals 502 00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:40,899 with a foul fiery dance 503 00:43:40,900 --> 00:43:44,259 of prancing she-demons, 504 00:43:44,260 --> 00:43:47,619 making their dominion 505 00:43:47,620 --> 00:43:50,659 ripple in quavering darkness, 506 00:43:50,660 --> 00:43:53,939 so that the commands from Pluto's realm 507 00:43:53,940 --> 00:43:56,820 might resound in hell as they do in jail. 508 00:43:57,140 --> 00:44:01,019 …The sound draws nearer. In the vaults of the cell 509 00:44:01,020 --> 00:44:04,060 the lost sound roams astray, 510 00:44:04,580 --> 00:44:07,380 shuddering, then freezing up as a white butterfly 511 00:44:07,820 --> 00:44:10,860 not grazing the hand outstretched. 512 00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:33,540 Kama... 513 00:44:33,780 --> 00:44:36,100 is a deep, full-flowing river. 514 00:44:38,780 --> 00:44:42,140 Here, on one of its flood banks, 515 00:44:42,780 --> 00:44:45,060 a hundred kilometers from the city of Perm, 516 00:44:45,220 --> 00:44:47,860 is located the leisure resort «Pershino». 517 00:44:55,620 --> 00:44:57,179 I came here 518 00:44:57,180 --> 00:45:00,780 in order to meet and spend a few May days 519 00:45:01,220 --> 00:45:03,900 with the bio-physicist and human rights activist, 520 00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:06,660 Sergei Adamovich Kovalev. 521 00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:15,500 Our activity, our protests arose, 522 00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:18,980 if you like, out of shame. 523 00:45:19,340 --> 00:45:23,219 It was shameful to live in those circumstances, 524 00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:28,660 shameful to write these ‘socialist obligations' on demand. 525 00:45:28,980 --> 00:45:31,020 You know what that is like. 526 00:45:31,380 --> 00:45:36,140 It's a completely pointless piece of paper that 527 00:45:36,460 --> 00:45:41,660 no one would read and you'd forget about 3 minutes after you've written it. 528 00:45:43,340 --> 00:45:45,979 And you pronounce these pathetic phrases that 529 00:45:45,980 --> 00:45:49,020 we're going to work even harder, and all that blah blah blah … 530 00:45:49,220 --> 00:45:51,139 and, "We can look forward to..." 531 00:45:51,140 --> 00:45:53,179 There's nothing we can look forward to! 532 00:45:53,180 --> 00:45:55,619 We looked forward to getting them off our back. 533 00:45:55,620 --> 00:45:58,579 Take this bloody paper and stick it up your arse... 534 00:45:58,580 --> 00:46:02,060 well put it in the cupboard and back off. 535 00:46:03,100 --> 00:46:07,179 So shame induced these protests 536 00:46:07,180 --> 00:46:10,020 and this shame intensified when 537 00:46:10,420 --> 00:46:14,179 you spoke up for, or tried to speak up for 538 00:46:14,180 --> 00:46:16,939 someone in jail, damn it, 539 00:46:16,940 --> 00:46:19,299 it's not that he was subject to verbal abuse, 540 00:46:19,300 --> 00:46:25,299 he wasn't forced to write socialist obligations like you. 541 00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:28,220 He was sent to jail and he is suffering in jail. 542 00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:32,299 Well if someone starts to say, well they were people, 543 00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:34,059 there's a tendency to do this, 544 00:46:34,060 --> 00:46:37,019 they were people who thought about their country 545 00:46:37,020 --> 00:46:39,859 and fought so that people would have it easier, 546 00:46:39,860 --> 00:46:43,339 so that life for people in this country would start to get better... 547 00:46:43,340 --> 00:46:45,420 this is all lies! 548 00:46:46,020 --> 00:46:49,539 I'm telling you like it is, I and not only I, 549 00:46:49,540 --> 00:46:52,099 didn't even think about this, 550 00:46:52,100 --> 00:46:56,739 I acted purely out of egoistic concerns, 551 00:46:56,740 --> 00:47:00,699 I wanted to acquire a moral right 552 00:47:00,700 --> 00:47:03,780 to self-respect, damn it! 553 00:47:04,860 --> 00:47:09,179 And in general I want to pursue science and to continue to do so. 554 00:47:09,180 --> 00:47:13,259 I thought they'll hardly 555 00:47:13,260 --> 00:47:16,020 just go and jail me for some kind of protest. 556 00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:19,219 But after a very short period of time 557 00:47:19,220 --> 00:47:21,660 I clearly understood that they'll jail me. 558 00:47:22,020 --> 00:47:24,819 And so then the question arises - 559 00:47:24,820 --> 00:47:27,940 so you want to have the right to self-respect? 560 00:47:28,780 --> 00:47:31,300 Then you'll have to pay for this! 561 00:47:32,860 --> 00:47:37,699 As it turned out there were a considerable number of people 562 00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:41,339 ready to pay for this right with a jail sentence. 563 00:47:41,340 --> 00:47:43,540 That's pretty much how it was. 564 00:47:44,580 --> 00:47:47,179 I want to underline once again that 565 00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:50,940 this was the birth of political idealism. 566 00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:54,419 One must live not according to the rules 567 00:47:54,420 --> 00:47:56,740 but according to one's conscience. 568 00:47:57,180 --> 00:47:59,300 And this is the... 569 00:48:00,340 --> 00:48:02,660 the main global issue today. 570 00:48:03,620 --> 00:48:07,099 That's a long conversation that we'll have later. 571 00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:09,500 Now I'll go and get myself a beer. 572 00:48:45,180 --> 00:48:47,220 They're going to hit each other, 573 00:48:47,620 --> 00:48:50,380 they often collide. 574 00:48:55,180 --> 00:48:56,620 Wow, oh boy! 575 00:48:59,620 --> 00:49:01,700 Serious guys! 576 00:49:05,540 --> 00:49:09,740 - That one on the right just came really close to us. - Yes, yes-yes… 577 00:49:10,100 --> 00:49:13,340 Then it went that way, a young one, it seems. 578 00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:18,740 Yes, those two there, walking along the edge. 579 00:49:20,980 --> 00:49:25,100 - It's clear that they're not very strong. - They're afraid, yes. 580 00:49:31,380 --> 00:49:35,819 - I don't see the females. - They've gone off somewhere. 581 00:49:35,820 --> 00:49:40,940 - No, here she is. - Look, they've gone all quiet. 582 00:49:41,540 --> 00:49:45,060 There one of them is standing amongst them, a large one… 583 00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:47,700 you're such a fine one! 584 00:50:21,740 --> 00:50:25,260 Look it's writhing about… 585 00:50:33,980 --> 00:50:37,140 Where is he? Over there. 586 00:51:13,980 --> 00:51:16,100 Oh, the sun's just risen. 587 00:51:16,180 --> 00:51:18,140 Look, a beaut! 588 00:51:19,140 --> 00:51:20,900 Oh what a beaut! 589 00:51:21,140 --> 00:51:24,420 Bluish black. Eyebrows! 590 00:51:27,180 --> 00:51:28,860 A pity, so good looking. 591 00:51:36,100 --> 00:51:39,900 Sergei Adamovich a passionate hunter since his youth 592 00:51:40,700 --> 00:51:44,460 has a reserve of yarns and tales. 593 00:51:47,260 --> 00:51:50,340 So I asked him to tell the first yarn 594 00:51:50,660 --> 00:51:52,420 that came to mind. 595 00:52:03,340 --> 00:52:06,379 I'm not going to tell any preface. 596 00:52:06,380 --> 00:52:08,900 That it was an Indian writer, 597 00:52:09,180 --> 00:52:11,779 and that I don't know his name, 598 00:52:11,780 --> 00:52:14,100 and that he's written a good novel... 599 00:52:14,340 --> 00:52:16,700 and this novel has a parable. 600 00:52:17,260 --> 00:52:20,179 The parable involves a story in which an Indian prince 601 00:52:20,180 --> 00:52:24,220 travelled with his retinue who prepared for him 602 00:52:24,620 --> 00:52:27,219 a marquee tent for his princely repose, 603 00:52:27,220 --> 00:52:30,099 and he had almost fallen asleep 604 00:52:30,100 --> 00:52:34,380 when into the tent flew a dove and in pursuit was a falcon. 605 00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:37,219 And the dove tried to hide in some kind of corner, 606 00:52:37,220 --> 00:52:39,899 and the prince stretched out his regal arms 607 00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:41,939 obstructing the falcon's path. 608 00:52:41,940 --> 00:52:44,900 The falcon sat somewhere in the tent 609 00:52:45,220 --> 00:52:48,379 and suddenly addressed the prince in a human voice 610 00:52:48,380 --> 00:52:51,860 saying "why do you prevent me from hunting?" 611 00:52:52,300 --> 00:52:53,899 "Because," said the prince 612 00:52:53,900 --> 00:52:57,739 I don't want an innocent creature to perish. 613 00:52:57,740 --> 00:52:59,899 But the falcon said to him 614 00:52:59,900 --> 00:53:02,619 "nature is built like that, you understand," 615 00:53:02,620 --> 00:53:06,580 "I can't feed myself on herbs and grain" 616 00:53:07,340 --> 00:53:10,540 "so how am I guiltier than that damn dove?" 617 00:53:10,860 --> 00:53:13,859 "Yes, but you will kill it and I want to..." 618 00:53:13,860 --> 00:53:18,020 "to prevent this cruel killing," the prince replied. 619 00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:23,219 "And consequently you want my young to die of starvation?" says the falcon. 620 00:53:23,220 --> 00:53:26,699 "But can't you hunt somewhere else," said the prince. 621 00:53:26,700 --> 00:53:29,979 "So, that's it you want to save this unfortunate dove" 622 00:53:29,980 --> 00:53:32,260 "at the expense of my poor young ones," 623 00:53:32,500 --> 00:53:34,700 "please feed them with your own flesh." 624 00:53:37,060 --> 00:53:38,979 So, in short, 625 00:53:38,980 --> 00:53:42,899 they place on one of the balance scales the weight of this dove. 626 00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:47,100 "Well", says the falcon, "give of your flesh as much" 627 00:53:47,700 --> 00:53:49,660 "as this bird weighs." 628 00:53:49,900 --> 00:53:51,739 "Fine", said the prince, 629 00:53:51,740 --> 00:53:54,659 and he cut off a large piece of flesh from his leg, 630 00:53:54,660 --> 00:53:58,979 threw it onto the scales but the arrow indicating the weight did not even budge. 631 00:53:58,980 --> 00:54:02,139 The dove was much heavier than this meat. 632 00:54:02,140 --> 00:54:04,299 And the prince, bleeding profusely, 633 00:54:04,300 --> 00:54:07,259 cut piece after piece of flesh without anything moving. 634 00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:10,259 The prince's servants were starting to panic, 635 00:54:10,260 --> 00:54:12,539 they addressed the falcon telling him, 636 00:54:12,540 --> 00:54:15,699 "what are you doing foolish bird?" 637 00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:18,219 And the falcon replies "Well then, do you want 638 00:54:18,220 --> 00:54:21,660 to prevent your prince from becoming an honest man?" 639 00:54:22,060 --> 00:54:25,900 It continued in this dangerous way 640 00:54:26,180 --> 00:54:28,739 until suddenly, the weight balanced. 641 00:54:28,740 --> 00:54:31,260 Then the falcon turned into a god 642 00:54:31,620 --> 00:54:34,179 and sang high praises for the prince 643 00:54:34,180 --> 00:54:36,379 saying, "you are a man of merit!" 644 00:54:36,380 --> 00:54:39,219 "You did a great deed" 645 00:54:39,220 --> 00:54:44,700 "with your own force, not on someone else's account." 646 00:55:15,620 --> 00:55:19,419 I was arrested on the 27th of December, 1974, 647 00:55:19,420 --> 00:55:20,940 uhhmm the 27th... 648 00:55:21,660 --> 00:55:25,500 well I could have got this one day out. 649 00:55:26,220 --> 00:55:33,220 Then I was brought to the train station and sent to the camp with my things. 650 00:55:33,540 --> 00:55:36,940 So they led me to the doors of the "Stolypin car" 651 00:55:37,940 --> 00:55:40,219 and a lieutenant who had brought me there, 652 00:55:40,220 --> 00:55:42,619 he accompanied me and said 653 00:55:42,620 --> 00:55:44,779 "That one to the "troinik". 654 00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:49,420 A "troinik" - is a small room meant for three people. 655 00:55:51,940 --> 00:55:54,620 I was transported alone without cellmates. 656 00:55:56,940 --> 00:55:59,900 At first we went through, mmm… 657 00:56:00,340 --> 00:56:03,499 how could this happen? I think they brought me 658 00:56:03,500 --> 00:56:06,580 first through Nizhny Novgorod, then through Yaroslavl'. 659 00:56:06,860 --> 00:56:09,099 I don't remember what the route was like. 660 00:56:09,100 --> 00:56:10,940 Anyway it's not important. 661 00:56:11,780 --> 00:56:14,499 Well when you travel through various cities… 662 00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:17,539 and we passed through Kirov… So where are they taking you? 663 00:56:17,540 --> 00:56:19,980 To Perm! Where else?! 664 00:56:33,820 --> 00:56:35,460 You see... 665 00:56:36,460 --> 00:56:42,419 we, my generation, we became active citizens, 666 00:56:42,420 --> 00:56:45,179 in the sixties, in the eighties, 667 00:56:45,180 --> 00:56:50,580 if you want, it's directly linked to the Khrushchev thaw. 668 00:56:51,540 --> 00:56:55,420 Then society had sort of woken up 669 00:56:55,780 --> 00:57:00,260 because after Khrushchev's denunciation of Stalin at the XX congress, 670 00:57:00,580 --> 00:57:03,939 it turned out that it was possible to say 671 00:57:03,940 --> 00:57:07,219 deeply critical things about Soviet power. 672 00:57:07,220 --> 00:57:11,419 This was apparent in this period 673 00:57:11,420 --> 00:57:15,339 when it suddenly became possible to criticize Stalin. 674 00:57:15,340 --> 00:57:18,380 It was a remarkable lesson. 675 00:57:18,940 --> 00:57:22,659 And then we, those like me, 676 00:57:22,660 --> 00:57:27,379 seized any information from outside the iron curtain. 677 00:57:27,380 --> 00:57:31,779 We had an avid interest! How did people live in the rest of the world? 678 00:57:31,780 --> 00:57:33,820 What happened in the outside world? 679 00:57:34,340 --> 00:57:37,539 And so we fell into the trap 680 00:57:37,540 --> 00:57:41,180 of yet another innocent mistake. 681 00:57:41,780 --> 00:57:43,939 We live god knows where, 682 00:57:43,940 --> 00:57:46,139 everything about us is rather inhuman, 683 00:57:46,140 --> 00:57:49,780 look how the rest of the world lives. 684 00:57:51,100 --> 00:57:53,220 Everything was about ‘realpolitik', 685 00:57:53,660 --> 00:57:57,180 we didn't really recognize this, we believed that 686 00:57:57,460 --> 00:58:00,939 in the West life was built in accordance 687 00:58:00,940 --> 00:58:05,099 with what was called ‘universal values'. 688 00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:07,460 This was not ‘realpolitik' 689 00:58:07,980 --> 00:58:11,580 but a politics of values and not interests. 690 00:58:12,100 --> 00:58:14,859 Then it later became clear that 691 00:58:14,860 --> 00:58:17,739 everyone lives in more-or-less the same way, 692 00:58:17,740 --> 00:58:22,739 and that ideal world exists only in people's ideals. 693 00:58:22,740 --> 00:58:25,420 And doesn't exist in any reality anywhere. 694 00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:30,779 This has become clear nowadays 695 00:58:30,780 --> 00:58:33,939 but then like fools we considered 696 00:58:33,940 --> 00:58:37,299 "We stand for noble ideas, 697 00:58:37,300 --> 00:58:44,860 which are there, just there in the West, they are triumphant!" 698 00:58:45,420 --> 00:58:49,899 Of course, one can't compare the policy in existence there 699 00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:52,380 which Western countries undertake 700 00:58:53,100 --> 00:58:56,180 with the hideous things which are happening over here. 701 00:58:56,820 --> 00:59:02,140 But, nonetheless, I'd say that these are things of the same nature, 702 00:59:02,620 --> 00:59:06,579 so when we become indignant about 703 00:59:06,580 --> 00:59:09,140 that which is happening all around us… 704 00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:11,819 we mustn't forget 705 00:59:11,820 --> 00:59:15,739 that this crisis… 706 00:59:15,740 --> 00:59:19,579 a moral, historic and legal 707 00:59:19,580 --> 00:59:22,059 crisis is a global one! 708 00:59:22,060 --> 00:59:25,059 It shakes the whole world 709 00:59:25,060 --> 00:59:30,180 and in fact we taking our cue from Andrei Sakharov, 710 00:59:30,660 --> 00:59:34,059 we must think about global politics 711 00:59:34,060 --> 00:59:36,660 and not only about Russian politics. 712 00:59:44,420 --> 00:59:47,700 It rained all day on the eve of our farewell. 713 00:59:49,660 --> 00:59:51,220 It was cold. 714 00:59:51,340 --> 00:59:54,620 And it felt that this weather would linger on for a long time. 715 00:59:57,980 --> 01:00:00,820 But time passed by imperceptibly 716 01:00:01,420 --> 01:00:04,100 leaving behind a mass of unasked questions. 717 01:00:06,220 --> 01:00:09,180 Therefore we decided to meet again 718 01:00:10,100 --> 01:00:12,380 during the "Pilorama" Forum. 719 01:00:29,340 --> 01:00:31,420 A scorching July day. 720 01:00:33,140 --> 01:00:37,260 A ferocious heat but the sun barely appears from the low, thundery clouds. 721 01:00:41,060 --> 01:00:45,460 The organizers hastily conclude their preparations to open the forum 722 01:00:45,980 --> 01:00:48,660 which already opens tomorrow (on Saturday). 723 01:00:50,900 --> 01:00:54,740 But the majority of the guests will arrive today, on the Friday evening 724 01:00:55,340 --> 01:00:57,579 and will be housed in the tented camp 725 01:00:57,580 --> 01:01:00,500 set up in the field opposite the museum. 726 01:01:08,900 --> 01:01:10,420 The morning. 727 01:01:11,540 --> 01:01:15,100 The camp reluctantly awakes after a rainy night. 728 01:01:17,660 --> 01:01:23,500 The organizers chose the last weekend of July precisely 729 01:01:24,820 --> 01:01:30,420 because statistically, during this period, the weather is usually warm and dry. 730 01:01:32,700 --> 01:01:35,339 But for several years now 731 01:01:35,340 --> 01:01:37,380 it has only been dry once 732 01:01:37,940 --> 01:01:40,740 and that year there was a sweltering heat. 733 01:01:42,620 --> 01:01:46,820 The remaining times it has been rather cold and wet. 734 01:01:49,500 --> 01:01:53,940 Fortunately, visitors to the Forum are not frightened off by the capricious weather. 735 01:01:54,500 --> 01:01:58,340 And, in spite of the foul weather, another third of the guests 736 01:01:58,500 --> 01:02:01,580 will come at midday for the opening ceremony. 737 01:02:15,700 --> 01:02:20,460 Dear friends, we are once again gathered here at «Pilorama». 738 01:02:20,900 --> 01:02:23,700 It is taking place this year for the eighth time. 739 01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:26,540 It was founded in 2005 740 01:02:27,580 --> 01:02:30,740 as a folk song gathering to mark the Museum's anniversary, 741 01:02:31,100 --> 01:02:35,300 but since 2007 it has become a civil forum 742 01:02:36,820 --> 01:02:40,260 drawing a large audience. 743 01:02:40,620 --> 01:02:43,300 Our "Pilorama" is a rather accurate 744 01:02:44,140 --> 01:02:49,420 replica of Russian society. 745 01:02:50,420 --> 01:02:53,419 Beyond the Boyarka river, coming here, you can see 746 01:02:53,420 --> 01:02:57,100 the largest tent, the highest flags - 747 01:02:57,300 --> 01:02:59,500 they are those of the Communists, 748 01:03:00,100 --> 01:03:03,380 those of ‘Sut' Vremeni' [the Essence of Time]. 749 01:03:03,740 --> 01:03:06,739 Here there are the liberals, very different groups. 750 01:03:06,740 --> 01:03:11,379 Amidst us now are former political prisoners of this camp: 751 01:03:11,380 --> 01:03:15,380 Victor Pestov, our neighbour from Yekaterinburg, 752 01:03:15,980 --> 01:03:17,620 Mikhail Meylakh… 753 01:03:18,420 --> 01:03:19,740 Mikhail Borisovich... 754 01:03:19,820 --> 01:03:23,819 well, it's hard even to pinpoint 755 01:03:23,820 --> 01:03:27,500 how Mikhail Borisovich found himself in this camp. 756 01:03:27,740 --> 01:03:30,139 He wasn't an active dissident but 757 01:03:30,140 --> 01:03:34,380 he managed to build an independent life under Soviet power 758 01:03:34,620 --> 01:03:38,619 and do what he most loved. 759 01:03:38,620 --> 01:03:41,619 At the same time he collected a huge samizdat library, 760 01:03:41,620 --> 01:03:44,620 for which Soviet power sent him to prison. 761 01:03:46,780 --> 01:03:49,139 Sergei Kovalev 762 01:03:49,140 --> 01:03:51,580 visits us each year 763 01:03:51,980 --> 01:03:54,700 so obviously there is little need to introduce him. 764 01:03:55,900 --> 01:03:58,059 Few people know that... 765 01:03:58,060 --> 01:04:05,420 in the 1980s there were three people from the Kovalev family in jail. 766 01:04:05,580 --> 01:04:11,020 Sergei Adamovich spent time in this prison camp and was sent to exile to Kolyma. 767 01:04:11,340 --> 01:04:13,780 Ivan Kovalev was jailed in camp Perm-36 768 01:04:13,900 --> 01:04:16,499 and Ivan's wife Tanya Osipova was imprisoned 769 01:04:16,500 --> 01:04:19,500 in a camp in Mordovia for female political prisoners. 770 01:04:20,020 --> 01:04:22,579 There are also political prisoners 771 01:04:22,580 --> 01:04:25,819 who served their sentences in other camps: 772 01:04:25,820 --> 01:04:29,100 Vyacheslav Bakhmin and Arseny Roginsky. 773 01:04:31,020 --> 01:04:33,979 I won't name all the international participants, 774 01:04:33,980 --> 01:04:37,899 those people, those guests who you will see, 775 01:04:37,900 --> 01:04:40,420 listen to and talk with. 776 01:04:41,220 --> 01:04:43,780 Friends, I declare "Pilorama" is open. Thank you! 777 01:04:53,180 --> 01:04:56,620 At «Pilorama», one instantly submerges into a whole train of events: 778 01:04:58,220 --> 01:05:01,980 exhibitions, concerts, shows, film screenings. 779 01:05:05,060 --> 01:05:07,820 One of the main goals of the Forum organizers 780 01:05:08,300 --> 01:05:10,580 is to enlighten the public. 781 01:05:18,980 --> 01:05:21,020 I greet my mum! 782 01:05:23,300 --> 01:05:27,780 It seems that both the politician and the artist feels at home here. 783 01:05:32,380 --> 01:05:35,980 Also at the Forum discussions on serious subjects are held. 784 01:05:36,980 --> 01:05:38,540 For example like this one: 785 01:05:39,300 --> 01:05:43,740 entitled "20 Years After The USSR, Gains and Losses". 786 01:05:48,180 --> 01:05:50,419 I wish to give the floor to a person 787 01:05:50,420 --> 01:05:53,259 who it would take a long time to introduce 788 01:05:53,260 --> 01:05:56,979 and anyway needs little introduction to people here. 789 01:05:56,980 --> 01:05:59,540 That is Sergei Adamovich Kovalev. 790 01:05:59,860 --> 01:06:01,780 I claim that 791 01:06:02,060 --> 01:06:06,380 the breakdown of the Soviet Union was inevitable, 792 01:06:07,060 --> 01:06:08,820 historically inevitable. 793 01:06:09,180 --> 01:06:12,780 And now what happened in our country. 794 01:06:13,340 --> 01:06:18,300 We couldn't even imagine a conversation of this kind back then. 795 01:06:18,580 --> 01:06:22,139 I don't know how many would have been sent to camps, 796 01:06:22,140 --> 01:06:24,339 how many would have become informers 797 01:06:24,340 --> 01:06:27,580 but I'm certain of one thing. 798 01:06:29,100 --> 01:06:33,700 Little good would have come to this audience. 799 01:06:34,100 --> 01:06:36,259 And it would be terrible to imagine what 800 01:06:36,260 --> 01:06:39,180 would have happened to Shmyrov (the director of Perm-36). 801 01:06:40,860 --> 01:06:43,739 But you should know that our new authorities 802 01:06:43,740 --> 01:06:46,859 are more sophisticated in the art of imitation 803 01:06:46,860 --> 01:06:51,300 than in the Soviet Union. 804 01:06:51,780 --> 01:06:55,659 And so what! So how many people have gathered here? About 100. 805 01:06:55,660 --> 01:06:58,419 So 100 people have gathered, let them speak 806 01:06:58,420 --> 01:07:00,580 or debate amongst themselves. 807 01:07:00,820 --> 01:07:03,820 Let them let off some steam, 808 01:07:04,140 --> 01:07:06,180 let the young in their... 809 01:07:06,700 --> 01:07:11,220 patriotic T-shirts speak 810 01:07:12,180 --> 01:07:14,739 and row with their elders. 811 01:07:14,740 --> 01:07:17,379 Is this frightening for anyone? 812 01:07:17,380 --> 01:07:19,700 Is the state afraid of this? No! 813 01:07:20,020 --> 01:07:21,899 As Mandelshtam wrote: 814 01:07:21,900 --> 01:07:24,740 "…We live, not sensing our own country beneath us, 815 01:07:25,260 --> 01:07:29,140 ten steps away they evaporate, our speeches…". 816 01:07:29,820 --> 01:07:34,179 And time and again you meet a young man 817 01:07:34,180 --> 01:07:38,499 who has the words USSR on his gaudy T-shirt 818 01:07:38,500 --> 01:07:41,539 and something else written 819 01:07:41,540 --> 01:07:45,060 and you find that he is a passionate follower of Stalin. 820 01:07:45,460 --> 01:07:48,540 He has never seen and never heard this Stalin 821 01:07:48,780 --> 01:07:51,500 and he never heard or seen the USSR 822 01:07:51,740 --> 01:07:53,860 having been born after its breakup. 823 01:07:54,700 --> 01:07:56,579 Thank you, Sergei Adamovich. 824 01:07:56,580 --> 01:08:01,259 - You can ask any questions later. - When exactly? How much time remains? 825 01:08:01,260 --> 01:08:04,460 - You haven't understood me? - I'm asking you. 826 01:08:05,100 --> 01:08:07,700 I told you that I'll answer you 827 01:08:08,020 --> 01:08:12,100 after Mikhail Meylakh has spoken. Over to you. 828 01:08:12,780 --> 01:08:15,460 The breakup of the Soviet Union. 829 01:08:16,260 --> 01:08:19,339 Well of course it was inevitable. 830 01:08:19,340 --> 01:08:22,019 The fact that the Soviet Union 831 01:08:22,020 --> 01:08:25,259 had inherited the worst aspects of the empire, 832 01:08:25,260 --> 01:08:27,780 this is also completely evident. 833 01:08:28,460 --> 01:08:30,860 The medieval consciousness 834 01:08:31,700 --> 01:08:34,659 which had been inherited from the time of the tsars 835 01:08:34,660 --> 01:08:37,539 and then in the Soviet Empire has also been preserved 836 01:08:37,540 --> 01:08:44,180 to a large extent too in our society. 837 01:08:44,580 --> 01:08:49,059 I'll give you an example from my own prison experience. 838 01:08:49,060 --> 01:08:52,380 When I was still in the pretrial detention cell, 839 01:08:52,940 --> 01:08:55,659 we were only given a copy of the newspaper Pravda. 840 01:08:55,660 --> 01:08:57,979 And so one day the cell window opens 841 01:08:57,980 --> 01:09:00,579 and we are given Pravda with the following words: 842 01:09:00,580 --> 01:09:03,899 "If you start to get excited you'll be sent to the punishment cell". 843 01:09:03,900 --> 01:09:06,219 What wasn't it possible to get excited about? 844 01:09:06,220 --> 01:09:08,779 It turned out to be the death of the most 845 01:09:08,780 --> 01:09:11,900 insignificant of all the rulers, Chernenko. 846 01:09:14,220 --> 01:09:15,460 Thank you. 847 01:09:15,900 --> 01:09:17,860 Thank you, Mikhail Borisovich. 848 01:09:18,740 --> 01:09:22,340 Now … sit down, young man, sit down, hold your horses, 849 01:09:23,180 --> 01:09:26,939 those ladies and gentlemen in red, 850 01:09:26,940 --> 01:09:29,979 those resting on each other's shoulders 851 01:09:29,980 --> 01:09:33,539 impatient to express themselves, 852 01:09:33,540 --> 01:09:36,699 and people of other colours, clothes 853 01:09:36,700 --> 01:09:39,379 and persuasions also can have your say. 854 01:09:39,380 --> 01:09:41,579 When I used to work on month-long shifts… 855 01:09:41,580 --> 01:09:44,339 Wait, wait a moment. You've already asked a question, 856 01:09:44,340 --> 01:09:47,019 now one has begun to speak, please sit down 857 01:09:47,020 --> 01:09:49,619 and take it in turns. Carry on, young man. 858 01:09:49,620 --> 01:09:52,899 I have a question about something relevant to the discussion. 859 01:09:52,900 --> 01:09:55,859 The title is 20 Years After The USSR: Gains and Losses. 860 01:09:55,860 --> 01:10:00,140 As far as I know you were dissidents during the Soviet Union. 861 01:10:00,860 --> 01:10:04,579 From your words I have heard about a single gain 862 01:10:04,580 --> 01:10:08,540 since the breakup of the Soviet Union. 863 01:10:09,340 --> 01:10:11,699 We are only speaking about the losses. 864 01:10:11,700 --> 01:10:15,459 - Our gains are too obvious. - For example? 865 01:10:15,460 --> 01:10:19,339 A lot has been stated. There is freedom, above all freedom… 866 01:10:19,340 --> 01:10:22,179 - Freedom of what? - There are many freedoms. 867 01:10:22,180 --> 01:10:27,860 Freedom of travel. Before practically no one could travel abroad. 868 01:10:28,260 --> 01:10:31,059 Even though the registration system remains, 869 01:10:31,060 --> 01:10:35,740 but the severe Soviet registration system (apart from Moscow) has ended. 870 01:10:36,140 --> 01:10:39,299 Free enterprise. Yes, a million freedoms 871 01:10:39,300 --> 01:10:41,540 that people didn't dream of before. 872 01:10:42,060 --> 01:10:45,739 Let's take it in turns. You have asked your question. 873 01:10:45,740 --> 01:10:48,740 This lady here. Please, you've already asked a question?! 874 01:10:49,180 --> 01:10:51,979 For 20 years I've dealt with human mentality 875 01:10:51,980 --> 01:10:54,379 working with very different people. 876 01:10:54,380 --> 01:10:57,259 My impression is that just as they used to believe that 877 01:10:57,260 --> 01:11:00,579 things were better in the USSR so do they now. 878 01:11:00,580 --> 01:11:04,139 Just as they wanted the USSR, so do they want it now. 879 01:11:04,140 --> 01:11:08,220 Just as they used to work in the USSR so they continue to work. 880 01:11:09,060 --> 01:11:13,219 So there is a paradox that if one were to behave democratically 881 01:11:13,220 --> 01:11:17,659 then it means one needs to create a new USSR, 882 01:11:17,660 --> 01:11:19,900 if that's what the people want. 883 01:11:25,340 --> 01:11:30,660 Yes, there is a fairly large number of people, 884 01:11:31,140 --> 01:11:33,940 I don't know what the percentage is. 885 01:11:34,660 --> 01:11:37,059 Maybe even half... 886 01:11:37,060 --> 01:11:43,220 who would want to return to that historic period. 887 01:11:43,620 --> 01:11:47,059 It's possible that our much suffering nation 888 01:11:47,060 --> 01:11:50,900 will choose the wrong path again. 889 01:11:52,220 --> 01:11:55,019 I don't know whether you'll be happy about such a thing… 890 01:11:55,020 --> 01:11:57,539 I'd be sad about it. 891 01:11:57,540 --> 01:12:01,939 Those who say that the people want Soviet order. 892 01:12:01,940 --> 01:12:10,779 But excuse me, democracy is not above all the power of the majority. 893 01:12:10,780 --> 01:12:13,859 Democracy is the rights of the minority. 894 01:12:13,860 --> 01:12:20,219 - You lie. It's called an oligarchy. - If you continue to speak in that tone 895 01:12:20,220 --> 01:12:23,059 and with those expression 896 01:12:23,060 --> 01:12:25,819 then I'm afraid things will turn out badly for you. 897 01:12:25,820 --> 01:12:30,540 - A true liberal. - For a start, they'll kick you out, got it? 898 01:12:34,940 --> 01:12:39,059 - So, never mind. - You attacked me 3 years ago when I spoke to you. 899 01:12:39,060 --> 01:12:41,499 There's no need to be rude. Can you get out of here?! 900 01:12:41,500 --> 01:12:44,020 Yeah sure I attacked. 901 01:12:44,660 --> 01:12:47,179 Let's stand near each other and look at 902 01:12:47,180 --> 01:12:51,700 who could have attacked whom. 903 01:12:52,420 --> 01:12:55,540 You in a whole group attacked one person. 904 01:12:56,100 --> 01:13:00,419 You have the right to your position, 905 01:13:00,420 --> 01:13:04,140 your point of view and I won't impinge on that right. 906 01:13:04,540 --> 01:13:07,259 But neither should you impinge on my rights. 907 01:13:07,260 --> 01:13:10,059 The death of many soldiers is on your conscience. 908 01:13:10,060 --> 01:13:14,019 Listen, shut it, otherwise you're going to fly out of here! 909 01:13:14,020 --> 01:13:17,619 - I don't want to sit here, let him leave. - Leave, quickly! 910 01:13:17,620 --> 01:13:20,379 - You leave! - Calm down, sit down. 911 01:13:20,380 --> 01:13:22,980 - Go on, you leave!! - Calm down, sit down. 912 01:13:25,740 --> 01:13:28,380 Listen let... 913 01:13:30,980 --> 01:13:33,860 let me answer you Madam. 914 01:13:35,540 --> 01:13:38,140 Some silence please. 915 01:13:48,540 --> 01:13:52,619 Listen, those lads in the red T-shirts 916 01:13:52,620 --> 01:13:56,340 have come here specially to scuttle the proceedings. 917 01:13:58,140 --> 01:14:01,540 Let's try to continue now. 918 01:14:04,660 --> 01:14:10,260 This girl there has had her hand up for such long time, it's almost dropping off! 919 01:14:17,580 --> 01:14:20,700 After midday, I set off to the tented camp 920 01:14:21,100 --> 01:14:23,780 and there I run into some lads with red T-shirts. 921 01:14:26,740 --> 01:14:29,660 I asked them to introduce themselves and tell me 922 01:14:30,660 --> 01:14:33,020 why they came to Pilorama. 923 01:14:41,260 --> 01:14:43,460 My name is Sergei Andriyanov, 924 01:14:43,500 --> 01:14:46,299 I'm the First Secretary of the Perm Lenin Committee 925 01:14:46,300 --> 01:14:48,980 of the Communist Union of Youth. 926 01:14:49,740 --> 01:14:52,060 The aim of the visit. Well, Pilorama 927 01:14:52,460 --> 01:14:55,859 has been designated by the organizers as a territory of freedom, 928 01:14:55,860 --> 01:14:59,619 as a space where people can come, discuss, express their opinions. 929 01:14:59,620 --> 01:15:03,939 We came here with our position on our history, 930 01:15:03,940 --> 01:15:07,579 about our view on the contemporary set up, we take part in discussions… 931 01:15:07,580 --> 01:15:10,859 Of course, now the situation is rather different. 932 01:15:10,860 --> 01:15:14,499 If in previous years we came here as opponents 933 01:15:14,500 --> 01:15:17,460 then this time there are points of convergence. 934 01:15:17,820 --> 01:15:22,980 I understand that to some extent you have some competitors? 935 01:15:23,340 --> 01:15:26,419 By competitors do you mean the second camp with red flags? 936 01:15:26,420 --> 01:15:28,579 Well, they already came here last year. 937 01:15:28,580 --> 01:15:31,620 Now you see Putin wished to remain in power 938 01:15:32,420 --> 01:15:35,739 and it was widely stated that those against him 939 01:15:35,740 --> 01:15:38,060 were western spies. 940 01:15:38,180 --> 01:15:42,940 So to fight against these western spies they created the organization "Sut' Vremeni", 941 01:15:43,420 --> 01:15:46,860 which acts like a parasite on Soviet symbols. 942 01:15:47,460 --> 01:15:52,620 So you want to say that you haven't yet found points of convergence. 943 01:15:52,860 --> 01:15:56,259 What points? They are an openly antagonistic organization. 944 01:15:56,260 --> 01:15:58,499 They're in favour of Putin! 945 01:15:58,500 --> 01:16:01,699 Yes, many of their activists say that they're against Putin 946 01:16:01,700 --> 01:16:04,859 but they are playing for his team. 947 01:16:04,860 --> 01:16:09,459 They try to tell citizens that 948 01:16:09,460 --> 01:16:13,460 all opponents are spies, in favour of the Orange Revolutions and so on. 949 01:16:13,900 --> 01:16:17,139 Therefore they defend Putin even if not directly 950 01:16:17,140 --> 01:16:19,419 and because they are our enemies. 951 01:16:19,420 --> 01:16:21,179 We just need to explain to people 952 01:16:21,180 --> 01:16:24,140 what kind of organization it is and what its goals are. 953 01:16:24,180 --> 01:16:27,739 There are many people who are the against present-day authorities 954 01:16:27,740 --> 01:16:29,939 but are positive about the Soviet past. 955 01:16:29,940 --> 01:16:33,179 They persuaded many of these people to support their side. 956 01:16:33,180 --> 01:16:35,579 If we were together we would be stronger 957 01:16:35,580 --> 01:16:38,980 but they convinced people with their talk about foreign spies. 958 01:16:39,340 --> 01:16:43,699 Tell me, why do you insist on those two figureheads: Lenin and Stalin? 959 01:16:43,700 --> 01:16:48,419 Let's take Stalin. Why do you use his name and images of him? 960 01:16:48,420 --> 01:16:52,580 Both Lenin and Stalin created the Soviet Union. 961 01:16:52,940 --> 01:16:56,900 Without this country, without those reforms that they carried out 962 01:16:57,300 --> 01:17:00,660 then Russia would never have survived the Second World War. 963 01:17:01,020 --> 01:17:04,459 Consider that the country was agrarian and 964 01:17:04,460 --> 01:17:07,179 to undertake industrialisation, to make that leap, 965 01:17:07,180 --> 01:17:09,219 we could only do so with that 966 01:17:09,220 --> 01:17:12,820 hard work which these two leaders implemented. 967 01:17:13,220 --> 01:17:15,859 Therefore, naturally, we honour their memory and 968 01:17:15,860 --> 01:17:19,499 we come out very strongly against any attempts to brainwash people, 969 01:17:19,500 --> 01:17:23,059 when people try to dirty the reputations of these two great people. 970 01:17:23,060 --> 01:17:26,459 It is unjust. As though any other path for Russia were possible. 971 01:17:26,460 --> 01:17:29,299 There was another path: to remain an agrarian country 972 01:17:29,300 --> 01:17:32,059 and become some other country's colony. That was all, 973 01:17:32,060 --> 01:17:34,380 the choice was very narrow in reality. 974 01:17:34,860 --> 01:17:38,579 I understand, but the price of human lives doesn't put you off? 975 01:17:38,580 --> 01:17:40,900 And what would the price have been, 976 01:17:42,220 --> 01:17:45,059 if Germany had occupied Russia? 977 01:17:45,060 --> 01:17:50,020 The fact is that Stalinist repression began well before the WWII. 978 01:17:50,220 --> 01:17:52,339 Everyone talks about 1937, 979 01:17:52,340 --> 01:17:55,619 but contemporaries of the time, the simple inhabitants, 980 01:17:55,620 --> 01:17:59,620 didn't notice that anything was happening to the country. 981 01:17:59,820 --> 01:18:01,939 They use numbers, which ones?! 982 01:18:01,940 --> 01:18:04,739 That 800 thousand people were repressed, shot, right? 983 01:18:04,740 --> 01:18:07,659 That's more or less realistic, of course there are those 984 01:18:07,660 --> 01:18:09,780 who say 20 million, some say that. 985 01:18:10,020 --> 01:18:13,420 Look 800,000 in a country with a population of almost 300 million, 986 01:18:13,660 --> 01:18:18,620 you know more people die nowadays. About a million die each year. 987 01:18:18,740 --> 01:18:22,619 They believe that in capitalism it's a matter of course, 988 01:18:22,620 --> 01:18:25,219 that from drugs, criminality and other things. 989 01:18:25,220 --> 01:18:28,619 And yet there someone was guilty, an evil man who killed everyone. 990 01:18:28,620 --> 01:18:32,699 But all this is not quite true. And there's another thing. 991 01:18:32,700 --> 01:18:37,699 I'm acquainted with someone who told me how they repressed his father. 992 01:18:37,700 --> 01:18:40,819 In a spurious way. It turned out he was accused 993 01:18:40,820 --> 01:18:46,099 by a militia man who had been a white guard 994 01:18:46,100 --> 01:18:48,939 and who had stolen someone else's papers. 995 01:18:48,940 --> 01:18:51,180 So there were cases of sabotage. 996 01:18:51,620 --> 01:18:54,659 And that's not the only case, there were many. 997 01:18:54,660 --> 01:18:56,939 And his father said that he was in Kolyma 998 01:18:56,940 --> 01:18:59,739 and there many enemies really were imprisoned, 999 01:18:59,740 --> 01:19:03,139 those who simply wished to get their own back on the country 1000 01:19:03,140 --> 01:19:06,179 and dreamed of revenge for some wrongs done to them. 1001 01:19:06,180 --> 01:19:09,620 Those whose personal ambitions were greater than their country. 1002 01:19:11,660 --> 01:19:15,700 Tell me have you been in conflict with Kovalev for a long time? 1003 01:19:16,060 --> 01:19:20,140 Well in 2008 when I first came here 1004 01:19:20,940 --> 01:19:23,380 when I met Kovalev 1005 01:19:23,660 --> 01:19:26,019 I asked him whether he dreamt 1006 01:19:26,020 --> 01:19:29,060 about the lads who had perished in Chechnya. 1007 01:19:29,340 --> 01:19:32,499 So what had caused this question? 1008 01:19:32,500 --> 01:19:35,299 A soldier had heard on the army transmitter 1009 01:19:35,300 --> 01:19:38,019 how he had called on them to surrender, 1010 01:19:38,020 --> 01:19:40,939 and in fact those who surrendered never returned home. 1011 01:19:40,940 --> 01:19:43,099 Well I asked him the question 1012 01:19:43,100 --> 01:19:46,939 and he became very nervous and the director of the Museum 1013 01:19:46,940 --> 01:19:50,739 Shmyrnov and his son jumped on me as though I were some kind of hooligan 1014 01:19:50,740 --> 01:19:53,179 and grabbed my arms. So a fight developed. 1015 01:19:53,180 --> 01:19:56,819 They called the police and the plice saw that there was 1016 01:19:56,820 --> 01:20:00,539 no criminal action on our part, we didn't throw our fists at them. 1017 01:20:00,540 --> 01:20:02,900 Well, that's the kind of conflict. 1018 01:20:03,220 --> 01:20:05,459 And did this conflict continue or not? 1019 01:20:05,460 --> 01:20:08,579 And in our discussion people asked him the same questions 1020 01:20:08,580 --> 01:20:12,979 and met with the same reaction, he gets nervous, the women around him 1021 01:20:12,980 --> 01:20:15,099 come running up and start to get crazy. 1022 01:20:15,100 --> 01:20:18,859 One can see his intolerance, he talks about freedom of conscience 1023 01:20:18,860 --> 01:20:22,340 and human thought. Yet he is extremely intolerant himself. 1024 01:20:23,700 --> 01:20:27,139 Can I ask your colleagues to introduce themselves 1025 01:20:27,140 --> 01:20:29,300 or would you like to introduce them? 1026 01:20:31,020 --> 01:20:35,899 Yevgeni Yermolaev – the press secretary of the Leninist Communist Union of Youth. 1027 01:20:35,900 --> 01:20:40,620 And Vassily Malginov – assistant secretary for propaganda and agitation of the Komsomol. 1028 01:20:45,340 --> 01:20:49,780 This 2012 year, the Culture Ministry of Perm Region, 1029 01:20:50,460 --> 01:20:52,780 slashed the budget for Pilorama. 1030 01:20:55,580 --> 01:20:59,420 Voices were heard that this would be the last Pilorama 1031 01:20:59,780 --> 01:21:02,460 and that next year there would be no event. 1032 01:21:04,900 --> 01:21:09,380 Perhaps it was for this reason that the organisers decided to conduct an auction 1033 01:21:10,220 --> 01:21:12,500 during the closing ceremony of the Forum. 1034 01:21:17,060 --> 01:21:20,819 - What shall we start with? - Well listen, we'll go about it like this: 1035 01:21:20,820 --> 01:21:24,339 we'll start with the minimal and… 1036 01:21:24,340 --> 01:21:28,459 - Don't be greedy! - And we'll take it step by step, 1037 01:21:28,460 --> 01:21:33,259 yes, each step will be an increase of 50 roubles. 1038 01:21:33,260 --> 01:21:36,419 We'll start with that. 50 roubles for all that. 1039 01:21:36,420 --> 01:21:39,700 Step one – 50 roubles, one step – a raised hand. OK? 1040 01:21:40,460 --> 01:21:43,419 Let's start then. I already see – 100, yes? 1041 01:21:43,420 --> 01:21:45,099 100! Excellent. 1042 01:21:45,100 --> 01:21:49,580 100 roubles for one large lot entitled Big Pilorama. 1043 01:21:50,140 --> 01:21:52,299 150. Excellent. 1044 01:21:52,300 --> 01:21:54,260 200 roubles. 1045 01:21:55,180 --> 01:21:58,980 250. I see 300. 350. 1046 01:22:00,300 --> 01:22:04,419 400. So, 500. 550. 600. 1047 01:22:04,420 --> 01:22:07,460 2 000! 4 000! 1048 01:22:07,980 --> 01:22:10,099 8 000. 9 000! 1049 01:22:10,100 --> 01:22:12,979 18 000! 20 000! W-e-l-l! 1050 01:22:12,980 --> 01:22:17,419 28 000. Great. Well, just a little more. 29 000. 1051 01:22:17,420 --> 01:22:19,899 29 000? 30 000 roubles! 1052 01:22:19,900 --> 01:22:24,020 And what's your name? Olga, Olga, I'm proud of you. 1053 01:22:24,460 --> 01:22:28,179 Well then dear friends! A very large Pilorama, 1054 01:22:28,180 --> 01:22:32,259 a large and generous and not the last Pilorama, is at stake here. 1055 01:22:32,260 --> 01:22:34,260 30 000 going once. 1056 01:22:35,100 --> 01:22:39,459 - 30 000 going twice. - 30 000 three times. 1057 01:22:39,460 --> 01:22:41,820 Hurrah! 1058 01:22:43,540 --> 01:22:47,299 Viktor Smyrov, please come up to the stage and receive 1059 01:22:47,300 --> 01:22:51,219 the honest money collected by your followers. 1060 01:22:51,220 --> 01:22:53,340 A round of applause! 1061 01:22:55,140 --> 01:22:57,420 Dear friends, 1062 01:22:57,700 --> 01:23:00,139 Thank you all for this auction. 1063 01:23:00,140 --> 01:23:03,619 I think that we will continue with this fund-raising. 1064 01:23:03,620 --> 01:23:07,260 Because as some bureaucrat once said: 1065 01:23:07,740 --> 01:23:11,420 if the forum is a civil forum let the citizens collect money. 1066 01:23:11,740 --> 01:23:16,340 So, that is what the citizens are doing, the process has begun. 1067 01:23:16,980 --> 01:23:19,700 And let it continue. Thank you, thank you. 1068 01:23:20,340 --> 01:23:26,060 Rumours about the early death of Pilorama are wildly exaggerated. 1069 01:23:26,740 --> 01:23:29,139 Moreover Pilorama will grow. 1070 01:23:29,140 --> 01:23:34,099 Thank you friends that you have been here yesterday and today. 1071 01:23:34,100 --> 01:23:37,179 I promised you that the weather will be Pilorama weather 1072 01:23:37,180 --> 01:23:39,580 and I fulfilled my promise. 1073 01:23:40,740 --> 01:23:46,380 So let's make an appointment here for next years. 1074 01:23:46,740 --> 01:23:49,779 Pilorama has ended, alas, this year 1075 01:23:49,780 --> 01:23:52,579 and now we have a gala concert. 1076 01:23:52,580 --> 01:23:54,620 Thank you and see you. 1077 01:24:03,060 --> 01:24:05,460 Day two of the Forum was coming to a close. 1078 01:24:07,660 --> 01:24:10,980 The skies darkened as though indignant at the guests 1079 01:24:11,220 --> 01:24:13,580 who didn't wish to leave for home. 1080 01:24:15,940 --> 01:24:20,460 I, too, felt the tired after these two days rich with events. 1081 01:24:24,340 --> 01:24:26,019 But before leaving 1082 01:24:26,020 --> 01:24:28,940 I noticed a group of people in period costumes and 1083 01:24:29,380 --> 01:24:33,340 I decided to remain and pose them a few questions: 1084 01:24:34,780 --> 01:24:37,620 why and with what goal did they come here? 1085 01:24:38,100 --> 01:24:39,819 What are their jobs 1086 01:24:39,820 --> 01:24:43,540 and why are they wearing the uniform of the NKVD (Stalin's secret police)? 1087 01:24:50,660 --> 01:24:52,940 They introduced themselves as 1088 01:24:53,980 --> 01:24:55,220 Irina, 1089 01:24:55,940 --> 01:24:57,220 Elena 1090 01:24:58,900 --> 01:25:00,180 and Mark. 1091 01:25:09,740 --> 01:25:11,780 Mark, can you give me an axe? 1092 01:25:17,820 --> 01:25:20,580 We are located now in Pilorama 2012. 1093 01:25:20,940 --> 01:25:22,940 We came here to rest. 1094 01:25:23,740 --> 01:25:26,899 In our normal life we have a tourist business 1095 01:25:26,900 --> 01:25:30,580 Rafting down the rivers of the Urals. 1096 01:25:31,980 --> 01:25:34,539 We are wearing this uniform for the second year 1097 01:25:34,540 --> 01:25:38,060 and there are a number of reasons for this. 1098 01:25:38,860 --> 01:25:43,179 On the one hand, there is this drive to impose the opinion that... 1099 01:25:43,180 --> 01:25:46,339 everything was bad in the Soviet Union and that 1100 01:25:46,340 --> 01:25:51,299 it is necessary to break radically with this, and to build some new capitalist… 1101 01:25:51,300 --> 01:25:54,459 to live according to new rules, in short, 1102 01:25:54,460 --> 01:25:57,059 I believe that this is completely wrong. 1103 01:25:57,060 --> 01:26:01,099 One should have taken everything that was good in our great country. 1104 01:26:01,100 --> 01:26:05,259 So in essence because of this we are wearing this uniform on the one hand. 1105 01:26:05,260 --> 01:26:09,499 One side is widely represented here at Pilorama 1106 01:26:09,500 --> 01:26:13,019 you have probably been to the museum and 1107 01:26:13,020 --> 01:26:17,459 seen where the prisoners lived how they ate, 1108 01:26:17,460 --> 01:26:21,220 all this is well represented 1109 01:26:21,900 --> 01:26:26,499 But the uniform of the NKVD is also an inseparable part 1110 01:26:26,500 --> 01:26:30,539 of this place, of this museum 1111 01:26:30,540 --> 01:26:34,299 and so from this side there is very little information, 1112 01:26:34,300 --> 01:26:36,339 nothing about it. 1113 01:26:36,340 --> 01:26:42,179 So wearing this uniform here is to show 1114 01:26:42,180 --> 01:26:47,500 that they were an inseparable part of this place. And that this is not forgotten. 1115 01:26:53,060 --> 01:26:55,620 I looked at these people and wondered: 1116 01:26:56,340 --> 01:26:59,980 did they ever get to read Solzhenitsyn or Shalamov? 1117 01:27:01,180 --> 01:27:02,620 Hardly… 1118 01:27:06,420 --> 01:27:09,580 We agreed to meet again at next year's Pilorama. 1119 01:27:11,580 --> 01:27:16,660 But a year later I only found Tatiana Kursina, the Museum director 1120 01:27:17,340 --> 01:27:20,580 accompanied by journalists and some public figures. 1121 01:27:27,700 --> 01:27:30,340 We are now in a prison camp. 1122 01:27:30,940 --> 01:27:37,219 This is all one exhibit, this building has been preserved as it was in GULAG period, 1123 01:27:37,220 --> 01:27:41,139 in its natural greatness and with all its particular features. 1124 01:27:41,140 --> 01:27:44,500 Let's walk further on. 1125 01:27:48,940 --> 01:27:51,900 So, I want to tell you, 1126 01:27:52,740 --> 01:27:54,859 lately, particularly in the past year, 1127 01:27:54,860 --> 01:27:59,020 Sut' Vremeni has been zealously attacking us. 1128 01:28:00,180 --> 01:28:04,740 The organisation which is led by Mr Kurginian. 1129 01:28:05,900 --> 01:28:09,859 Last year they began a whole campaign against Perm-36, 1130 01:28:09,860 --> 01:28:12,900 accusing us of falsifying history 1131 01:28:13,780 --> 01:28:16,579 and telling us that money from the public purse 1132 01:28:16,580 --> 01:28:19,579 intended for Perm-36 went to commemorating 1133 01:28:19,580 --> 01:28:24,420 not the victims of political repression, not the victims of the GULAG 1134 01:28:24,820 --> 01:28:30,180 but to commemorating criminal elements and those who aided fascism. 1135 01:28:31,700 --> 01:28:36,019 In reality more than 40% of those imprisoned in this camp were political prisoners, 1136 01:28:36,020 --> 01:28:40,580 and Andropov specially created 3 political camps: 35, 36, 37. 1137 01:28:41,420 --> 01:28:46,019 So these 3 camps were created by Andropov as political camps 1138 01:28:46,020 --> 01:28:50,340 but I repeat that they were never purely political. 1139 01:28:50,500 --> 01:28:53,420 A portion of criminal prisoners was always present. 1140 01:28:54,940 --> 01:28:59,700 Many offensive things have been written by 1141 01:29:00,620 --> 01:29:04,980 Sut' Vremeni, recently, And by other red-brown groups, 1142 01:29:05,300 --> 01:29:11,780 and this has influenced contemporary politicians. 1143 01:29:13,180 --> 01:29:15,739 You can imagine how "easy" it is for us to survive, 1144 01:29:15,740 --> 01:29:19,499 if you take into account that for the entire first 6 months of this year 1145 01:29:19,500 --> 01:29:22,859 we were investigated by the Control and Audit Commission. 1146 01:29:22,860 --> 01:29:25,939 After we organized the Pilorama, 1147 01:29:25,940 --> 01:29:29,539 OBEP (the Department for Economic Crimes) came to investigate us. 1148 01:29:29,540 --> 01:29:32,179 After that, since August and 1149 01:29:32,180 --> 01:29:36,019 throughout the autumn and winter the Procurator's Office visited. 1150 01:29:36,020 --> 01:29:37,740 The reason... 1151 01:29:38,940 --> 01:29:41,779 was that the Perm Communists, the Sut' Vremeni 1152 01:29:41,780 --> 01:29:45,659 wrote a letter to the President and the General Procurator about Perm-36. 1153 01:29:45,660 --> 01:29:49,780 They investigated us and only by New Year did things calm down. 1154 01:29:50,300 --> 01:29:53,419 Now once again letters to the President, 1155 01:29:53,420 --> 01:29:57,059 to the General Procurators Office have been written about Perm-36 1156 01:29:57,060 --> 01:29:59,979 and so it is impossible to find any time to work. 1157 01:29:59,980 --> 01:30:05,060 Because we are continually accompanying the investigators. 1158 01:30:17,740 --> 01:30:19,620 Ladies and gentlemen, 1159 01:30:20,100 --> 01:30:22,539 we are situated near the site 1160 01:30:22,540 --> 01:30:24,980 which is the camp's sawmill (pilorama). 1161 01:30:25,180 --> 01:30:27,579 This is already a legendary place, 1162 01:30:27,580 --> 01:30:32,380 it has given its name to the international civic festival 1163 01:30:32,900 --> 01:30:35,820 which has taken place here since 2005. 1164 01:30:36,860 --> 01:30:41,580 A festival which gathers not only locals, local citizens, 1165 01:30:42,100 --> 01:30:45,460 but citizens from throughout Russia and the world. 1166 01:30:46,740 --> 01:30:50,099 Unfortunately, this year Pilorama 1167 01:30:50,100 --> 01:30:53,660 has been called off for the first time for a number of reasons. 1168 01:30:54,420 --> 01:30:57,779 Two weeks before the Forum 1169 01:30:57,780 --> 01:31:00,060 we were informed that 1170 01:31:00,380 --> 01:31:02,979 the budget was cut in half. 1171 01:31:02,980 --> 01:31:05,579 Therefore the Public Council took the decision 1172 01:31:05,580 --> 01:31:08,619 to cancel Pilorama in view of funding cuts. 1173 01:31:08,620 --> 01:31:11,219 And what motives do the regional authorities 1174 01:31:11,220 --> 01:31:14,300 have in taking away these two and a half million roubles? 1175 01:31:14,940 --> 01:31:17,659 I believe that as a result of 1176 01:31:17,660 --> 01:31:20,700 the increasing civil activity of citizens in Russia, 1177 01:31:20,980 --> 01:31:24,059 the regional leaders felt that this was probably 1178 01:31:24,060 --> 01:31:26,420 a dangerous event for them. 1179 01:31:26,940 --> 01:31:29,779 There are ‘new faces' in power, and with rare exceptions 1180 01:31:29,780 --> 01:31:32,060 they are from another region. 1181 01:31:32,100 --> 01:31:34,899 The previous governor knew this Pilorama very well. 1182 01:31:34,900 --> 01:31:39,219 He was standing with his son and watched Shevchuk's concert under a downpour. 1183 01:31:39,220 --> 01:31:41,859 He knew very well that here there was no trouble 1184 01:31:41,860 --> 01:31:43,939 unless Sut Vremeni turned up, 1185 01:31:43,940 --> 01:31:46,739 that here people are having important discussions, 1186 01:31:46,740 --> 01:31:49,219 that no one is intending to set up barricades. 1187 01:31:49,220 --> 01:31:52,179 The new regional leadership has probably got some 1188 01:31:52,180 --> 01:31:55,180 rather cowardly or incompetent people in it. 1189 01:31:55,860 --> 01:31:59,419 If there weren't Pilorama Forums the leadership of this area 1190 01:31:59,420 --> 01:32:01,700 would have had to invent them! 1191 01:32:01,780 --> 01:32:04,739 Here they come without five-star generals 1192 01:32:04,740 --> 01:32:06,979 without high-ranking uniforms 1193 01:32:06,980 --> 01:32:10,579 and meet with citizens from this region. 1194 01:32:10,580 --> 01:32:13,820 This is how I think about it 1195 01:32:15,900 --> 01:32:18,219 and if I feel any guilt then it is because 1196 01:32:18,220 --> 01:32:21,780 I couldn't explain how this has been a very useful experience. 1197 01:32:22,620 --> 01:32:26,019 Tatiana Gergievna you spoke about Sut' Vremeni, 1198 01:32:26,020 --> 01:32:29,699 can you tell us whether they played a role in the fact that Pilorama 1199 01:32:29,700 --> 01:32:33,500 this year didn't happen in the form that we are used to? 1200 01:32:34,060 --> 01:32:36,819 They blame us for not having dialogue with them. 1201 01:32:36,820 --> 01:32:40,299 But this is only because they have no arguments of their own. 1202 01:32:40,300 --> 01:32:44,099 They have emotions and the desire not to keep this museum. 1203 01:32:44,100 --> 01:32:47,460 These people that gather here falsify everything. 1204 01:32:47,740 --> 01:32:49,940 How does this all influence 1205 01:32:50,620 --> 01:32:53,180 the regional authorities?! I can't say. 1206 01:32:53,420 --> 01:32:55,739 I respect the regional leadership too much 1207 01:32:55,740 --> 01:33:00,100 to suspect that such shallow people 1208 01:33:01,860 --> 01:33:04,540 who don't know history and don't wish to know it 1209 01:33:04,820 --> 01:33:06,140 that they are... 1210 01:33:09,260 --> 01:33:11,139 that they are being listened to. 1211 01:33:11,140 --> 01:33:13,100 That would be completely pathetic. 1212 01:33:14,500 --> 01:33:18,500 Well welcome to Pilorama 2014. 1213 01:33:18,700 --> 01:33:20,020 Thank you. 1214 01:33:27,420 --> 01:33:30,020 But Pilorama didn't take place the next year. 1215 01:33:30,580 --> 01:33:32,819 A year later the Perm Ministry of Culture, 1216 01:33:32,820 --> 01:33:35,020 using its administrative resources, 1217 01:33:35,260 --> 01:33:38,340 transformed the public museum into a state institution, 1218 01:33:38,580 --> 01:33:41,340 sacking Tatiana Kursina from her post as director. 1219 01:33:42,740 --> 01:33:46,979 A media campaign to discredit her activities had been organised 1220 01:33:46,980 --> 01:33:49,900 and there had even begun a legal campaign against her. 1221 01:33:52,340 --> 01:33:54,779 In the meantime the new museum directors 1222 01:33:54,780 --> 01:33:57,060 changed the exhibitions, 1223 01:33:57,420 --> 01:34:02,180 presenting facts about the GULAG and about political repressions in a dry manner 1224 01:34:02,620 --> 01:34:09,940 in an attempt to whitewash or even justify that tragic period in Russian history. 1225 01:34:31,500 --> 01:34:33,980 Dear Comrades! 1226 01:34:35,380 --> 01:34:38,420 It's a great pleasure that fellow thinkers 1227 01:34:39,060 --> 01:34:42,739 have come here today to remember Joseph Stalin. 1228 01:34:42,740 --> 01:34:46,139 People from both the younger and the older generation have come. 1229 01:34:46,140 --> 01:34:49,419 Naturally stalwart komsomol members have come 1230 01:34:49,420 --> 01:34:53,780 who are now our backbone. 1231 01:34:54,860 --> 01:34:57,100 And I want to say 1232 01:34:57,700 --> 01:35:02,980 that everything depends on us and that our future is in our hands. 1233 01:35:03,100 --> 01:35:07,819 Look at how things progressed, in the nick of time, 1234 01:35:07,820 --> 01:35:11,900 when Josef Stalin was the head of our state, 1235 01:35:12,460 --> 01:35:16,059 how youth rose to the challenges of labour 1236 01:35:16,060 --> 01:35:18,219 and the challenges of war. 1237 01:35:18,220 --> 01:35:20,500 How is it that now youth 1238 01:35:20,860 --> 01:35:24,499 only sees achievement in how much beer it puts away, 1239 01:35:24,500 --> 01:35:26,700 in how to grab more money 1240 01:35:27,300 --> 01:35:29,260 buy a fancier foreign car 1241 01:35:29,620 --> 01:35:32,179 and marry some oligarch's daughter. 1242 01:35:32,180 --> 01:35:34,379 What kind of dignity is in that? 1243 01:35:34,380 --> 01:35:36,740 And what about the future? Is this progress? 1244 01:35:37,460 --> 01:35:40,179 Instead things will turn out like in Gorky's poem: 1245 01:35:40,180 --> 01:35:43,460 "… And you will live on earth, Like the blind worms live, 1246 01:35:44,060 --> 01:35:48,059 No legends will be told of you, No songs about you sung!" 1247 01:35:48,060 --> 01:35:52,539 Is this really the case, dear comrades, dear friends, 1248 01:35:52,540 --> 01:35:54,819 especially those who are young. 1249 01:35:54,820 --> 01:35:57,139 Must we really become worms? 1250 01:35:57,140 --> 01:36:00,140 We have brains, we have hands, 1251 01:36:00,260 --> 01:36:03,139 there is a great country beneath our feet. 1252 01:36:03,140 --> 01:36:06,300 Which we, after 20 years of tyranny 1253 01:36:06,460 --> 01:36:09,299 need to reconstruct, to revive! 1254 01:36:09,300 --> 01:36:12,259 So that she is great once again. 1255 01:36:12,260 --> 01:36:15,779 So that the whole world envies us. 1256 01:36:15,780 --> 01:36:18,219 So that our rockets fly into the cosmos again, 1257 01:36:18,220 --> 01:36:20,539 so that our factories work again, 1258 01:36:20,540 --> 01:36:24,459 and homes are built and are given to the people. 1259 01:36:24,460 --> 01:36:26,619 So that people live, gave birth, 1260 01:36:26,620 --> 01:36:30,859 look forward to the future and discover new things and conquer, 1261 01:36:30,860 --> 01:36:34,819 conquer not the daughter of an oligarch but new spaces! 1262 01:36:34,820 --> 01:36:39,220 So that science works for us and flourishes, everything is in our hands! 1263 01:38:12,580 --> 01:38:17,620 This film was completed with the support of the patron, whose name has been left unknown. 1264 01:38:20,460 --> 01:38:23,420 Scriptwriter and director Sergei Kachkin 1265 01:38:24,340 --> 01:38:27,660 Producer Sergei Kachkin Konstantin Nafikov 1266 01:38:28,740 --> 01:38:31,540 Cameraman Sergei Kachkin 1267 01:38:32,820 --> 01:38:35,620 Composer Mike Kirin 1268 01:38:36,820 --> 01:38:39,820 Editor Kolia Votinov 1269 01:38:40,820 --> 01:38:43,740 Sound engineer Nelli Ivanova 1270 01:38:44,940 --> 01:38:47,860 Sound mixer Vladimir Ermakov 1271 01:38:48,860 --> 01:38:51,900 Sound mixer assistant Elena Seregina 102897

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.