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How should I refer to you
during the interview?
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00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:45,440
By your real name,
or by your cover name?
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00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,320
"Yael?” "Ella?”
4
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,280
Not "Ella,” not "Yael"...
5
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,280
But you can use "Tamar.”
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00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,040
Tamar. Okay.
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00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,880
You were in "Caesarea",
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00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,440
Mossad's special operations unit.
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00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,040
Yes.
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00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,360
What do you need in order
to become a Mossad operative?
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00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,720
I think that to be an operative
you need to become a storytelling machine.
12
00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:21,520
And the stories always
have to exist on two levels:
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00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,720
The story you tell yourself, why you're
going to do what you're going to do,
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00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,960
and the story you're prepared
to tell the world,
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00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,000
the one you never tell.
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00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:37,880
Because if you ever get to the point
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00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:40,240
where you have to tell the story,
you're already screwed.
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00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,520
You should reach a point
where you look the part,
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00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,600
where your accessories,
your demeanor, your...
20
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,800
Everything you do is noticed
and whoever’s looking at you
21
00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,280
thinks, looks, says "Wait a minute.
22
00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,160
Who is this? Why is she here?
23
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,600
Oh, right.
24
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:04,560
Welcome."
25
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,960
What happens if your cover is blown?
26
00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,280
Look, if I were caught,
27
00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:15,760
then...
28
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,560
I doubt they would have stopped
at a long prison sentence.
29
00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:21,920
I don't know.
30
00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,960
Because it's not so nice
to be an Israeli spy,
31
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:30,840
behind enemy lines.
32
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,680
It's... not advisable.
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00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,880
The military court sentenced to death
Eli Cohen, a resident of Tel Aviv,
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00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,760
for espionage offenses."
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00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,960
The job takes you all over Europe.
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00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,240
You spend most of the week
away from home.
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00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,440
The family and children
remain at home.
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00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,560
And yet, at the same time,
39
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,720
you're busy in your work,
40
00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,280
under a false identity,
41
00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,800
and maintaining total separation
between those two worlds,
42
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,800
of play-acting on one hand...
Because you're basically a theater actor,
43
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,160
not for a two-hour play,
between 7:00 and 9:00,
44
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,920
but for hours upon hours.
45
00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:18,560
Hours and days.
46
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:20,600
Is it really theater?
47
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,360
It's not exactly theater,
48
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,280
in the classical sense of the word,
but it's...
49
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:31,760
I'd say, a system where people play parts.
50
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,680
Everyone knows
exactly what they have to do.
51
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,840
You've got one shot
at performing this show,
52
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,960
and you have to be convinced
53
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,960
that the volume of X's performance,
54
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,120
alongside Y's timing,
55
00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:55,040
combined with this or that line of text,
56
00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:01,080
will eventually have the desired effect
and make the audience applaud,
57
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,360
so to speak.
58
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,240
You can take a bow,
59
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,400
you’ve achieved your objective.
60
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,800
I was recruited because
I was a good actress.
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00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:25,360
I was recruited because
I spoke different languages.
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00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:31,120
I was recruited because I was intelligent
enough to deal with changing situations,
63
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,720
and be able to react well in the moment.
64
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,640
I was recruited because sometimes it’s
easier for a couple to stand on the corner
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00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,160
than for a woman alone or a man alone.
66
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:47,920
That's why I was recruited.
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00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:57,160
When I was recruited, I was 26,
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00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,720
young and just out
of the IDF special forces,
69
00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:03,160
and, like everyone else, I was at a
crossroads. I didn't know what to do.
70
00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,720
When they approached me,
it was a good fit. A very good fit.
71
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,400
It fit in with...
the way I saw myself in the mirror.
72
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,160
When I looked in the mirror,
that's what I wanted to see.
73
00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,440
They called me in for an interview.
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00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:21,840
It was a brief interview
with a rather attractive girl,
75
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,680
which really made me want
to be part of this organization.
76
00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,880
They quickly sent me on to a kind of...
77
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,440
personality test,
78
00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:35,280
to see if I was the kind of person
79
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:40,040
who was suitable for this type of work,
as a secret agent.
80
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,320
Your military service,
in the special forces... Was it helpful?
81
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,600
Serving in an elite unit,
such as Sayeret Matkal and others,
82
00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,720
has nothing to do with your success
as a Mossad operative.
83
00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,000
One of the best operatives we ever had
84
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,440
was a balloon technician
in the Intelligence Corps.
85
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,360
Serving in outfits such as the Air Force,
86
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,760
being an Air Force pilot,
is even a drawback,
87
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,120
because those people are trained
in a very rigid framework,
88
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,680
and so, their capacity
for open and creative thinking
89
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,360
is a bit limited. I hope no pilot
tries to kill me for saying that.
90
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,920
So you have to think outside the box,
91
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,360
be very creative,
92
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,360
but you can't be nuts.
93
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,040
It's true that most people who are...
94
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,960
on the verge of madness,
are much more creative.
95
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,920
You can see that
in history's great artists.
96
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:41,280
They were a little nuts.
97
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,680
An organization such as ours
can't afford that.
98
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,680
So you have to find those people
99
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,560
who are free-thinking and imaginative,
100
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,400
who have that fertile imagination,
101
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,680
but at the same, are very sane,
and know why they're doing it.
102
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,920
I grew up in a small town in Europe.
103
00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,680
A very conservative France.
104
00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,600
Growing up in an all-girls school,
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00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:15,720
with all female teachers...
106
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,400
It felt like a place that
would never change.
107
00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,760
They always made me feel like a stranger.
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00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,280
They always made sure to ask,
109
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,360
"In case of a conflict
between Israel and France,
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00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,360
where would you belong?
Where does your loyalty lie?"
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00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,800
In 1970, the law in France was changed,
112
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,960
and they lowered the age at which
you’re legally an adult from 21 to 18.
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00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,280
I said, "That's it. Bye bye."
114
00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:50,960
I packed a bag and left for Israel.
115
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,400
That's the kind of girl I was.
I knew what I wanted,
116
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,400
and I knew what I didn't want.
I started a totally normal life.
117
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,000
Until one day I got a letter
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00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,400
from the Agency
for International Cooperation.
119
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,560
I went into a room
with a desk and a man.
120
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,360
He said, "What if I told you
121
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,560
that there's a job that our pilots
122
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:25,160
can't do,
123
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,520
that our paratroopers can't do,
124
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,600
and that you can do?
125
00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,080
The job is to be
Israel's eyes outside its borders.
126
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:41,760
Would you be interested?"
127
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:43,960
Of course!
128
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,360
Didn't you think of the danger?
129
00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:49,800
No.
130
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,160
Today, would your answer
have been different?
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00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:55,200
I don't think so.
132
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,400
OK, what should I call you
during the interview?
133
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,160
- Janet.
- Janet?
134
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:08,000
If you call me Sarah
within five minutes I'll be Sarah.
135
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,400
No problem.
136
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,800
When I was young,
I loved crime and suspense novels.
137
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:24,120
I spoiled every Agatha Christie movie
for all my friends,
138
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,240
because by the second scene
I already knew who did it.
139
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,280
I like mysteries.
I like solving mysteries.
140
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,360
I like taking part in mysteries. OK?
141
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,160
It was 1970. I was in Israel.
142
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,720
I was very confused.
143
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,560
I enrolled in night school
at the Technion,
144
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,720
studying information systems
and programming.
145
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,800
They sat us in a classroom and a
very handsome man sat in front of me.
146
00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,080
It was the middle of winter.
147
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,800
Everyone was pale.
But this guy had quite the tan.
148
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,360
OK. The school year started,
and once in a while,
149
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,360
the guy would disappear,
and come back two weeks later,
150
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,200
even more tan,
smiling from ear to ear, happy as a clam.
151
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,320
He was really enigmatic.
152
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,400
After the third or fourth time,
153
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,600
I took a pencil.
I sharpened it really well,
154
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,760
as sharp as I could.
155
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,160
I put it here, against his artery,
156
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,760
and I said, "Look,
157
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,360
I have no idea what you're up to
158
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:41,840
but I want in on it."
159
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:43,720
And that's how I came to Mossad.
160
00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:50,560
They test you for resourcefulness,
improvisation, bravery.
161
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,960
Those who are too brave, fail,
162
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,120
because someone who's
daring, brave, and fearless,
163
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,680
can't read situations well,
doesn't see the danger coming.
164
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,200
You have to be, on one hand,
165
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,560
a reliable person, with strong morals,
166
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,680
and on the other hand, you have to have
the ability, in certain situations,
167
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,960
to be someone else entirely, based on
what you need in a given situation.
168
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,360
So this combination,
of these two qualities,
169
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,560
is hard to find in a single person.
170
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,400
Generally, people are
either honest and just,
171
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,080
or they're crooks.
172
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,560
It's hard to be honest and just,
and to be a crook as well when needed.
173
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,080
In your everyday as an operative,
174
00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:46,560
you have to live deep inside that world,
sometimes for long stretches,
175
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,760
and to manipulate people in a way
you never would in your normal life.
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00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,320
That's the game.
177
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,400
That's why operatives are so hard to find.
That's why one in a thousand fits.
178
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,560
Did the fact that you're a woman
figure in your training?
179
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:05,400
WE'RE NOT DOLLS!
180
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,280
Look, I came after 1968
181
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,960
from France where girls burned their bras.
182
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,560
THERE CANNOT BE REVOLUTION
WITHOUT WOMEN
183
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,680
The image of the French woman,
in those days,
184
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,840
raised questions about promiscuity,
185
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,720
susceptibility and boundaries,
186
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,000
and my capacity for discipline.
187
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,280
On one hand, they didn't want
to make me a nun. On the other hand,
188
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,160
they didn't want me to get into trouble.
189
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,800
At certain points during training
190
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,760
they decided to test me on this front.
191
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,600
I had a boyfriend,
and they asked me to break up with him.
192
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,160
They needed to test my ability
to obey authority,
193
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,720
which isn't a given for me,
194
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:03,160
and to be true to my word, that...
OK, I'll break it off,
195
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,200
and we'll never see each other again.
196
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,120
He didn’t like it at all,
197
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,560
but I was very determined.
198
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,960
As the director of Mossad,
199
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,360
how involved were you
in operatives’ private lives?
200
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,760
Let me tell you a story
about one of the operatives,
201
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:32,880
I won't tell you who, who was to play
a key role in a certain upcoming mission.
202
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,960
He came to me and said,
"I have to go abroad for 3 days."
203
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,280
I said, "But the mission..."
"I'll be back."
204
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,360
So he calls me from abroad and says,
205
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,760
"I'm so sorry, Ephraim.
I can't come back."
206
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,160
"What's the matter?"
“I’ve found the love of my life.
207
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,200
We're going out now, on a catamaran."
208
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,440
And over there, it's... I said, "But...
209
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,800
You know, the mission!"
He says, "Sorry, I can't."
210
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,760
I hung up the phone. It was 2:00 am.
211
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,040
My wife, Hadassah, says:
212
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,360
"What's the matter?
You're white as a sheet.”
213
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,680
And I postponed the mission, without
telling the director of Mossad.
214
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,360
If I had told the director of Mossad,
215
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,560
he would have had no choice,
in my opinion,
216
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,560
but to bar him from participating
in such missions in the future.
217
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,960
So all of Israel had to wait
for him to finish his...
218
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:40,080
- trip?
- Yes.
219
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,280
I couldn't just get someone else.
220
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,600
It's the kind of thing that
you specialize in over time.
221
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,760
I didn't have a replacement to suggest.
222
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,360
Do you think I made the right decision?
223
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,120
- Was it successful?
- What?
224
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:58,120
Was it successful?
225
00:15:58,600 --> 00:15:59,960
Is that the test?
Whether the mission was successful?
226
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,920
Maybe it was the wrong decision,
and it went well anyway?
227
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,560
- What do you think?
- I'm not going to tell you.
228
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,880
What do they teach you?
How to use a weapon?
229
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,960
Do they teach you to...
hold a knife in your teeth?
230
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,560
No, not at all.
231
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,360
I know that part of the image
of a Mossad operative is...
232
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:33,560
the guy with the knife in his teeth,
James Bond, with his fancy weaponry...
233
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,160
The most dangerous thing would be
234
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,360
to get caught with a weapon in a country
where you're not supposed to be.
235
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,080
And so, you don't carry weapons.
236
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,960
Your weapon is your identity, your story.
237
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:53,800
That's your only weapon.
238
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,720
In the movies,
239
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,360
the lives of operatives and secret agents
are all very glamorous.
240
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,560
In reality, it's true,
there are insane highs,
241
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,800
and unforgettable moments,
242
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,120
but reaching that peak requires
a lot of boring, thankless work.
243
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:17,600
Hard work.
244
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,160
For instance, you might spend four days
across from an office building,
245
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,960
waiting for a certain
bearded guy to come out.
246
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,880
You can't do anything else.
247
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,400
If you take your eyes off that building,
you'll miss the bearded guy
248
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:38,920
that's supposed to come out.
249
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,680
That's reality. Reality isn't James Bond.
250
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,200
The James Bond part exists,
but it's ultimately a small part of it.
251
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,080
You might put in a week's work
for a ten-minute act.
252
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:55,080
But you know, I won't go into specifics,
253
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,560
but sometimes it's worth it
to put in a week's work for ten minutes.
254
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,360
I became active during the Yom Kippur War.
255
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,440
It was a terrible time.
256
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,120
We were genuinely afraid
that our home would be destroyed.
257
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:22,960
Where did they send you?
258
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,360
To Egypt, while we were still at war.
259
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:30,720
- How did you get there?
- I went back to Europe,
260
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,160
for a while, to get ready
and to work on my back story.
261
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,400
Because my time in Israel
had to be erased.
262
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,800
Any connection to Jewishness.
Any connection to being Israeli.
263
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:47,560
Any connection to Hebrew.
264
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,160
Well, these are photos of...
265
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,400
The evening gowns of the 1970s,
266
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,160
that I used from time to time.
267
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:02,000
Who picked them out?
268
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:03,680
The commander.
269
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,880
Yes.
270
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,560
We went shopping. Three dresses.
271
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,280
Oh, this is on the plane,
272
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,120
flying abroad for the mission.
273
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,160
This was my 22nd birthday.
274
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,560
Who took it?
Was someone there with you?
275
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:23,760
Yes.
276
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,400
I had a partner with me,
because the mission required a couple.
277
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:30,440
Yes.
278
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,800
And that was your cover story?
279
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,400
"The wife of.”
280
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,560
The day of my arrival in Cairo,
281
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,960
I was with my "boyfriend,”
282
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,960
and he wanted to show me around,
to see Cairo by night,
283
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,280
and he took me to Sahara City.
284
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,600
A big tent,
285
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,280
music, food, a belly dancer...
286
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,360
He had been there a while
by the time I joined him.
287
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,280
And I see him, sort of...
288
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,880
tapping his foot along with the rhythm,
and tapping his hand on his thigh.
289
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,080
That told me he was already acclimated,
290
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,360
that he was part of that culture.
I still found it totally foreign.
291
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,960
I play a certain character.
-What kind of character?
292
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,560
I play a blonde and I'm a brunette.
293
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,600
The blonde type is...
294
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,200
a shallow person.
295
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:52,600
All I care about is a little sport,
and a little social life,
296
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,160
and taking belly-dancing lessons,
it's good for your figure
297
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,920
and good for connecting
with the local culture.
298
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:08,640
I know exactly what I'm giving off,
what I want people to see, because...
299
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:14,120
Those two girls who're going
to gossip about me need to be able
300
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:18,720
to come up with answers to their questions
without having to come and ask me.
301
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:20,920
The day someone comes and asks me
302
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,160
a question,
that means I screwed up big time.
303
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,400
I constructed my story
ahead of time, of course.
304
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,080
But there are always little details
that you don't...
305
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,000
You can't learn someone else's
entire life by heart,
306
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,080
whether it's real or fake.
You have to make up a life,
307
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,600
but some stuff is always missing.
308
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,600
You deal with it every day,
until it becomes second nature.
309
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,600
You notice things, you make sure
not to talk, not to give anything away.
310
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,280
So basically,
your whole life becomes an act.
311
00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,520
Yes, the theater of life.
312
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,360
Look, someone who doesn't enjoy the game
313
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:04,960
is wrong for the job, obviously.
314
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,360
But if you enjoy the game...
315
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,760
I remember getting on a plane,
alone, for the first time,
316
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,360
on my first trip to Khartoum.
317
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,880
You get on a plane,
surrounded by Muslim men
318
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,640
wearing gallabiyas.
319
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,440
And they look at you,
and you look at them,
320
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,400
and you know that they have no idea
you're from the place you're from.
321
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,880
I sat there on the plane, looking around,
and I really enjoyed that situation,
322
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,800
having a secret that only I know.
323
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,640
On your assignment in Sudan,
what was your cover story?
324
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,280
A businessman?
325
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,800
No. I was a researcher,
an anthropologist,
326
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:50,920
studying tribes.
327
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,280
It wasn't easy, because...
328
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,440
There weren't a lot of them around,
let's say.
329
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:07,040
The order came down
from the Prime Minister, no less.
330
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,800
He said,
"Bring Ethiopia's Jews to Israel.”
331
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:09,760
Just like that.
332
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,280
In those days, Ethiopia
was almost in a state of anarchy,
333
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:22,000
so we couldn't
transport those Jews directly.
334
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,480
So we decided
to take advantage of the fact
335
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,640
that Sudan and Israel
both border on the Red Sea.
336
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,760
That operation involved breaking
every rule on the book
337
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,000
on how to run an intelligence operation.
338
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,840
First of all, it took place
in an area where we had
339
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,880
very limited field recon capabilities.
340
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,560
We had no real way of knowing
341
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,440
whether or not we'd been exposed.
342
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,240
The people we recruited...
343
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,800
We didn't have time to train them
and properly prepare them for the job.
344
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,160
I made that decision
345
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,040
and we took a shortcut.
346
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,480
We took some people,
some of them Israeli, and trained them,
347
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,400
gave them crash courses,
348
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,640
on operating under an assumed identity
in an enemy country.
349
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,240
So I went to Sudan
in order to check out beaches,
350
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:43,720
and to test the waters.
351
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,600
We took a tour of the beaches,
352
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,840
and during that tour,
about 65-70 km north of Port Sudan
353
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,040
we saw some huts with red roofs.
354
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,880
It was a diving resort,
built by an Italian company.
355
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,240
The diving spots there
are some of the best in the world.
356
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,160
As soon as I saw the resort,
I realized its potential
357
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:15,400
from every angle.
358
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:18,640
Our justification for being
in Sudan in the first place.
359
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,760
What's your connection to a diving resort?
How do you explain that?
360
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,240
So I'm an anthropologist
who got sick of anthropology.
361
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,040
I've been over there for two years,
362
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,160
and it's the most beautiful place
I've ever seen and I decide
363
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,880
to quit my research
and now I want to make money.
364
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,240
That's something everyone can understand.
365
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,440
The team I put together for the job
was required,
366
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,160
on one hand, to play the role
of diving instructors, all the way,
367
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,400
including actual instruction,
368
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,240
and to be part of a team
that does the actual work of...
369
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,280
gathering the Jews and transporting them,
370
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:00,760
all undercover.
371
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,040
None of them came through the village.
We transported them
372
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,640
through a small inlet,
about 5 km from the resort.
373
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,040
The resort was entirely for the purpose
of maintaining our cover.
374
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,800
Look, I was a troublemaker.
375
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,880
I was recruited as a journalist,
376
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,160
and in the Mossad,
the word “journalist" is
377
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,040
synonymous with “whore.”
378
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,040
And actually, my whole adult life
379
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,640
had been journalism and Mossad,
journalism and Mossad, journalism...
380
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:36,680
Sometimes at the same time.
381
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,640
What was your job in this mission?
382
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,800
I was co-founder and
manager of the resort.
383
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,000
Among other things,
I was a windsurfing instructor,
384
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:53,440
a boat operator...
385
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,680
At one point, we brought over the first
windsurfing board in Sudan.
386
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,520
We flew it in special from Israel
on a military plane.
387
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,480
The end of the course was the first time
I found out what I was going to do.
388
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,640
My job was to run the resort,
like a Club Med.
389
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:25,560
The resort would be the operatives’ cover
and their pretext for coming to Sudan.
390
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:31,160
One will be the resort's doctor,
one will come to check the books...
391
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,160
You asked about the theater?
There you go.
392
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,760
That was my moment on the stage.
393
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,640
The resort was called Arous.
394
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,640
After the mission ended,
The New York Times wrote
395
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,440
that it was a shame
they’d closed the resort,
396
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,400
because it was a hidden treasure.
397
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,560
The best diving in the world.
Divers came there from all over,
398
00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,560
and the food...
399
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,840
We ran something like a...
Michelin two-star restaurant.
400
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,640
We ran the operation at the same time
as the resort, totally unrelated.
401
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:17,440
Nothing changed in the resort’s routine
during the operation.
402
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,640
Some of the operations
were done by sea.
403
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,120
We'd take the “brothers,”
as we called them, to the beach,
404
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,640
where they were picked up
by Israeli commandos.
405
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,640
Once, we stumbled into
a Sudanese army ambush.
406
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,240
About 60 Sudanese soldiers
suddenly emerged from the dark.
407
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,160
Soldiers?
408
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,400
Armed soldiers, with AK-47s.
409
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,440
- Gunshots, some people got captured...
- Were you captured?
410
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,240
No. I was 100 meters from the beach,
in an inflatable boat,
411
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,520
and I reported back,
412
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,800
because the commandos were already
preparing for a violent rescue operation,
413
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,040
to go back to the beach and rescue
the four people who got captured,
414
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,960
but I told them to wait, because suddenly
I see Danny with his hands in the air,
415
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,400
shouting at the officer.
416
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,240
He was a tall, strong guy.
417
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,880
He started yelling at me in Arabic,
and I knew what he was saying, but...
418
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,080
I answered him in English.
419
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,080
He says, "What are you doing?
Who are these people?
420
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,080
I'm taking you to Port Sudan
for interrogation."
421
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,440
He grabbed me by the arm.
422
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:30,840
I wriggled free.
423
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,560
I said,
"I'm not going anywhere with you.
424
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,400
You wanna shout? I can shout too."
425
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,640
He started yelling at him.
"You're a moron! You're an idiot!
426
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,560
I work for the Tourism Ministry!
I take tourists on nocturnal dives,
427
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:44,800
and you open fire at me!
428
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,600
I'll be in Khartoum tomorrow,
429
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,480
and I'll lodge a complaint
with the Chief of Staff!"
430
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,800
And the officer, all embarrassed,
431
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,600
mumbled an apology,
gathered his men, and left.
432
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,040
We always knew it might all end
433
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,760
with a burned-out military plane,
434
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,960
and us hanging upside down from the tail.
435
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,840
Did you ever feel like
your cover was about to be blown?
436
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,600
I had a very difficult test.
437
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,640
Once, when there where no other guests,
two German guests came in,
438
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:26,680
Germans both.
439
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,880
One of them got the hots for me,
and was always on my tail,
440
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,640
constantly around me,
talking to me, asking questions,
441
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,680
and we talked about
our childhoods, and songs...
442
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,960
The things you talk about when you finally
find someone from your homeland.
443
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,800
That puts you in a very awkward position.
Imagine it.
444
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,680
If someone pretends to be
Israeli around you,
445
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,640
right away you'll know if he's for real
or if he learned it somewhere.
446
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,880
Diving tourists are people
who spend a lot of money
447
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,160
in order to get to any hole
they’ve heard has good diving.
448
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,240
We had Italians, French,
449
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,680
Spaniards, Canadians.
450
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,440
This one Canadian,
he was Jewish by the way,
451
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,440
requested a private dive.
452
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,160
The instructor...
453
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,720
had been undercover,
a former naval commando officer.
454
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,160
Now, underwater,
divers communicate using hand signals.
455
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,840
Military divers use different signals.
456
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,840
To ask if everything's OK,
he goes like this
457
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,880
and you have to answer like this.
458
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,000
In the military, he goes like this
459
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,640
and you have to answer like this.
460
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,240
The hardest thing for them
461
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,240
was to make that switch.
462
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,400
So the guy came from a country
that has serious naval commandos,
463
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,160
and he asked him,
"Why did you go like that?
464
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,680
What's your background?"
He realized his mistake,
465
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,800
so he said "Yeah,
I used to be in the military."
466
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,240
When they get out of the water,
the guy says something like,
467
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,200
"Good dive, huh?" In Hebrew.
468
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,040
And, you know, after an hour underwater,
you get a little...
469
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,400
So he answered, "Yes."
470
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,160
He comes up to me and says,
"I'm burned."
471
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,160
I said "OK, which room is he in?"
He told me the room number.
472
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,600
I knocked on his door. He opened it
and started talking to me in Hebrew.
473
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,160
I said, "I don't understand."
474
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,000
So he switched to English.
475
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,080
And he said, "Listen...
You know, I'm on your side."
476
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:37,360
I told him,
477
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,600
"You requested another
dive tonight, right?
478
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:40,960
You asked for a night dive.
479
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,440
We're going to take you to a reef
where there's a special kind of shark.
480
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,440
They only like the taste of kosher meat.
That's where you'll be diving tonight."
481
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,240
"No", he says.
"No, really, I don't...
482
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,560
I didn't mean anything by it, I...
483
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,000
I love Israel..."
I said, "I don't care.
484
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,240
Just remember that our
reach is very long."
485
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,120
What do you do in that kind of situation?
486
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,560
Look, in this line of work,
487
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,720
you always prefer
488
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:10,960
to avoid violence.
489
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,240
But the goal is to make sure
that these Jews don't get caught,
490
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,680
and that our commandos don't get caught.
491
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,440
- So?
- Listen,
492
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,160
sometimes divers have accidents.
493
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,160
Can I say that I slept well
494
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,080
during those years? No.
495
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,680
I knew that at any moment,
something might happen.
496
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,000
They might get exposed, the Sudanese might
figure out who they are,
497
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,160
and once they're arrested
anything can happen,
498
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,200
starting with torture,
499
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,240
all the way up to not allowing them
to return to Israel alive.
500
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,040
That image of Eli Cohen,
501
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,080
hanged in the town square, in Damascus...
502
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,960
- Is that something that haunts you?
- No.
503
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,680
No. Because if it haunted me,
I couldn't do my job.
504
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,160
I couldn't, and others couldn't,
505
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:10,160
at every level. No.
506
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,960
The missions are recon missions.
507
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,040
I saw an opportunity to gather intel
508
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,160
that I knew was
highly sought after in Israel.
509
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,240
I joined a certain tour.
510
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,640
I managed to get into
the War Museum in Suez
511
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,760
and took pictures of vehicles
in order to help find missing persons
512
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,560
who were missing in action.
513
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,280
I saw fresh blood stains inside.
514
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,440
It was just days after
those soldiers had been killed.
515
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,840
And I had to keep smiling,
516
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,040
as if everything's OK.
517
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,240
You look so young in these pictures.
518
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,160
And yet you managed to hide your feelings.
519
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,440
There were many moments like that.
520
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:21,800
I'll give you an example.
521
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:29,240
Foreigners weren't allowed
to travel freely down most roads.
522
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,160
And I'm traveling, with a partner,
523
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,480
down a dark road at night,
524
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,640
and we don't have many reasons
to be going down that road.
525
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,440
And whatever you see,
you can report.
526
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,280
It could be a place
where long-range missiles are hidden.
527
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,800
It could be antennas.
528
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,400
It could be anything.
529
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,160
We reach a police checkpoint,
530
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,160
and the officer comes up to my window.
531
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,640
He asks where we came from,
and I tell him,
532
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,240
and where we're going,
and I tell him.
533
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,840
And then he says, "Why?"
534
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,640
So I play the wide-eyed dummy,
535
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,400
and I say,
"Because it was so boring there."
536
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,320
And he bought it and let us through.
537
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:25,640
Our hearts were racing,
538
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,160
because the car was full
of things we didn't want them to find.
539
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,640
You were involved in a mishap,
as team leader
540
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:43,160
in a mission in a...
"European" country, let's say.
541
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:48,880
A Mossad fiasco.
542
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:51,480
Four young Israelis
were caught in Cyprus
543
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,000
while attempting to tap the phones
of the Iranian embassy in Nicosia.
544
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,000
They claimed the were looking for
ladies' rooms for their female companions.
545
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,600
I'll tell you,
in regards to the mishap
546
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,640
which you just mentioned,
547
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,760
that I was involved in,
548
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,080
that I was involved in many more mishaps.
549
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,880
But usually,
550
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,000
you manage to avoid those mishaps,
and then, they don't become mishaps.
551
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,160
but in every case, in every case,
552
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,040
we take a modicum of risk.
553
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,040
On rare occasions,
554
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,240
we fall flat.
555
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,800
What was it like for you, personally,
being under arrest?
556
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,280
To be a free man,
on top of the world,
557
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,880
feeling like the world
is your own private playground,
558
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,280
traveling everywhere,
559
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,760
living it, and then to suddenly
find yourself handcuffed to a chair...
560
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,280
It's a very unpleasant situation.
561
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,240
And then you start asking yourself
some really big questions.
562
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:09,040
I admit that I even asked myself
why we have to get killed over this.
563
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,880
And the training you get
564
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,680
makes you, at that moment,
set that aside and move forward.
565
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,440
Did they believe you?
566
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,480
Did you manage to maintain your cover?
567
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:25,640
Of course.
568
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,240
Look, the risks were obvious.
569
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,360
Lillehammer happened around the same time.
570
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,840
The Mossad went after one of the
571
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,640
architects of the athlete
massacre in Munich,
572
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,040
and mistakenly identified
a Moroccan waiter
573
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,600
as the man they were looking for,
574
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,640
and, as a result,
575
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,160
killed the wrong man.
576
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,160
Bouchiki fell to the ground
in a pool of blood.
577
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,640
A neighbor saw it all
and even wrote down the plate number
578
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,640
of the car, a Mazda,
579
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:03,000
which enabled the police
to trace down the car.
580
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,880
Two men and two women, one of them
581
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,920
a Swede with ties to Israel,
were arrested.
582
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,440
On of them was Sylvia Rafael.
583
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:15,640
Did you know her through the Mossad?
584
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,080
Yes. Part of the story I constructed
included the capacity
585
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,240
to work as a journalist,
or as a photojournalist.
586
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,160
And that's when I met Sylvia,
who worked in that field.
587
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,240
Sylvia Rafael came from South Africa.
She wasn't even a Jew.
588
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,280
She fell in love with Israel.
At some point, she was recruited.
589
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,480
They constructed a wonderful identity
for her, as a Canadian photographer.
590
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,960
- And she actually was a photographer.
- Whose picture did she take?
591
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,000
The whole Middle East’s,
592
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:50,960
including kings, rulers...
593
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,240
So there was a Mossad operative
in the courts of kings
594
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,600
all over the Middle East,
595
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,000
with a camera.
596
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,480
Since the time of Israel’s founding,
597
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,600
there were several dozen Israelis
598
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,160
who went places that
how should I put it...
599
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,840
No Hollywood screenwriter has
ever taken enough magic mushrooms
600
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:16,840
to write about it.
601
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:19,400
Four of the defendants,
602
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:24,960
Abraham Gehmer, Sylvia Rafael,
Dan Arbel and Marianne Gladnikoff
603
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,240
came before the Supreme Court of Norway.
604
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,800
She was exposed as a Mossad operative
605
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,560
and imprisoned.
606
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,560
I watched the reading of her verdict
607
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,760
where I was stationed,
608
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,440
in Cairo, at the time.
609
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,040
Did you think what would happen
if they caught you?
610
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,960
Getting caught in Norway
is not like getting caught in Cairo.
611
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,440
With all the fun,
612
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,200
we were also being tested there.
613
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,240
We had guests there who had
CIA written all over them.
614
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,760
They were definitely CIA.
We made them immediately.
615
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,400
We knew that if we were careless,
616
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,120
we could sink the whole operation.
617
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,520
It was surreal even to think
618
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:26,760
that while we're at the resort,
having fun,
619
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,840
dancing with the guests
because we’re having a party,
620
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,240
the very same night,
at the back of the resort,
621
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,840
there's a convoy of trucks
622
00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:40,840
transporting Jews to an evacuation point.
623
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,560
Every group of Jews that
I saw pulling away
624
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,280
from the shore with the naval commandos,
625
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,520
or going up in the plane,
626
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:52,440
brought with it…
627
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,240
enormous satisfaction.
628
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,680
And look, this whole operation,
with all its ups and downs,
629
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:01,240
with all its difficulties,
630
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,640
including firefights, and arrests,
and everything else,
631
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,400
went on for nearly ten years.
632
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,360
Your cover story in Cairo
was as “the wife of.”
633
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:28,200
How do you maintain such a complicated
relationship over such a long period?
634
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,240
I'd rather go on to another question.
635
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:43,200
Still,
636
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,360
what does it do to you,
acting out such a close relationship?
637
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,080
And where's the line
638
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,920
between acting and reality,
between acting and real life?
639
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,440
Wherever you want it to be.
640
00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:58,400
And in your case?
641
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,160
Let's begin by saying
I didn't like the guy.
642
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,360
Had I met him socially,
643
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,480
I can assure you that I wouldn't have
spent more than five minutes with him.
644
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,240
He was the total opposite
645
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,960
of the type of person I could see myself
646
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,040
in a relationship with.
647
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,840
How did you keep it up for a whole year?
You were 22 years old.
648
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,080
It's not like going up on stage, acting,
649
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,280
and coming back down
an hour and a half later.
650
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,080
I live life to the fullest,
651
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,080
very intensely. I mean,
652
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,280
when I'm in something, I'm fully in it.
653
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,000
Certainly, spending many months
654
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,800
together, in an enemy country,
655
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,480
with the tensions of the place,
656
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,360
having to count on each other
657
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:06,880
and the acting...
658
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,280
It brought us closer together,
659
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,480
a closeness that eventually
turned emotional as well.
660
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,920
At that point, it became obvious that
661
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,240
it would be very, very difficult for us
if we didn't become close.
662
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,640
Because of our living conditions,
because we had...
663
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,160
local servants inside the house and...
664
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,560
We had to create that chemistry,
that intimacy.
665
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,760
We said, "Let's try and live it for real."
666
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:46,920
Until the mission ended,
667
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:48,880
and then we had to decide:
668
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,480
Do we stay together,
or do we break up?
669
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,880
The person who brought us together,
670
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,960
who knew us both well,
671
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,160
saw himself as responsible
672
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,240
for the impossible situation
he had put us in,
673
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,640
and he thought
674
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,680
it wouldn't be right
675
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,840
to let it go on,
676
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,080
the way it was going,
677
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,800
and he made sure we broke up.
678
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:24,720
And how did you take it?
679
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,680
I was so angry.
680
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:31,080
I...
681
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,120
Very angry. Very.
682
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,560
I said to him, "Look,
683
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,360
this might be a mistake,
but it's my mistake to make,
684
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,480
I’m asking you to stop
interfering with my life."
685
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,400
And yet,
686
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:50,560
my partner could have also
687
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:56,480
said the same thing I did:
"Wait, hold on. I refuse. Let's...
688
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,400
Do what we want to."
689
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,120
And he didn't do that. Therefore,
690
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,880
the person who made the decision
was probably right
691
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,320
about us not belonging together.
692
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:21,080
It's not easy.
693
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:24,360
At the end of the day, we're all human.
694
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,680
You can't...
695
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,480
It has to be very, very clear:
There's your work life,
696
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,960
where you're one person. There's your
home life, where you're another person.
697
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,080
They can't mix.
698
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:41,880
When they mix, it's very bad.
699
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,360
They mix sometimes and that's very bad.
700
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:46,320
So you put an end to it.
701
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:48,920
Can't be helped.
702
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,800
A few months before the mission ended,
I remember we were walking on the beach,
703
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,240
in the late afternoon.
704
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,880
He was called "Tony" there.
705
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,480
I said "Tony, tell me,
706
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,640
who do you prefer: Tony, or...?"
707
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,280
His real name, his name here in Israel.
708
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,080
And neither of us could
answer that question.
709
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:25,080
Who would we rather be:
the person we are here, in Sudan,
710
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,880
or the person we are in Israel?
711
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,560
I traveled to the US with my wife once.
712
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:40,240
This American couple asked me,
"Where are you from?"
713
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,000
And instinctively, I said "Italy.”
714
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,760
And the conversation went on.
715
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,520
I had no problem giving them
lots of details about Italy.
716
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,480
Later, we went back to the room,
and my wife said,
717
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,720
"Why didn’t you say Israel?
Why'd you have to say Italy?"
718
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,920
The point is that in this line of work,
719
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,760
you constantly feel the need
720
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,160
to be protected, covert
721
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:12,640
and not to be exposed.
722
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:23,040
I trained myself not to respond
to Hebrew in airports.
723
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,240
And it put me in a very embarrassing,
very difficult position,
724
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,920
when I was with my daughter,
on a European vacation,
725
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,040
and in an airport,
she called out to me, "Mom!"
726
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,000
And I didn't move.
727
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,240
It's part of maintaining your cover.
728
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,960
That's what you have to do:
729
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,840
Pretend it doesn't concern you.
730
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,840
She remembers it to this day,
and she's 35.
731
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,040
I remember it to this day.
732
00:49:58,560 --> 00:49:59,520
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