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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:09,092 --> 00:00:10,135 Mom. 2 00:00:11,219 --> 00:00:13,054 Mom, turn around! 3 00:00:13,596 --> 00:00:16,433 Mom, turn around! You're on Totally Hidden Video! 4 00:00:17,851 --> 00:00:19,519 Say hi. Scream! 5 00:00:19,602 --> 00:00:22,522 We've got a house full of company. Can we call you back? Okay. 6 00:00:23,314 --> 00:00:25,066 Hello. What's your name, sir? 7 00:00:25,608 --> 00:00:27,110 "You're on Candid Camera." 8 00:00:27,193 --> 00:00:29,946 Look at that little camera hidden in that corner behind the cabinet. 9 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:32,574 - Aren't you too close right now? - Yes, that's a camera. 10 00:00:32,657 --> 00:00:34,534 - I'm not focused, Rachel. - Scream. 11 00:00:35,827 --> 00:00:37,662 Five cans of water?! Holy-moly! 12 00:00:37,746 --> 00:00:38,580 Five cans of water. 13 00:00:38,663 --> 00:00:40,665 Rachel, this is gonna be such a boring tape, 14 00:00:40,749 --> 00:00:43,126 watching somebody put five cans of water in a pitcher. 15 00:00:46,337 --> 00:00:49,758 Okay, Mom, Dad, can you introduce yourselves? 16 00:00:49,841 --> 00:00:52,010 - You start. - Okay. 17 00:00:52,677 --> 00:00:54,512 So, I'm Karen Mason. 18 00:00:55,722 --> 00:00:57,098 I'm Barry Mason. 19 00:00:58,099 --> 00:01:01,561 And we own Circus of Books, since 1982, 20 00:01:02,020 --> 00:01:03,855 so 33 years ago. 21 00:01:04,397 --> 00:01:06,775 Which is a long time to do anything. 22 00:01:06,858 --> 00:01:09,778 Can you say what the Circus of Books is? 23 00:01:14,991 --> 00:01:19,662 All right. So, Josh, can you describe our family for me? 24 00:01:20,830 --> 00:01:23,083 Like, what are Mom and Dad like? 25 00:01:23,166 --> 00:01:24,542 Um... 26 00:01:25,502 --> 00:01:26,586 I think our family... 27 00:01:26,669 --> 00:01:30,215 There's a level of conventionality in our family. I think, um... 28 00:01:30,298 --> 00:01:33,468 we're a normal, tight-knit family. 29 00:01:34,302 --> 00:01:35,512 I just mean to take us. 30 00:01:36,054 --> 00:01:39,307 Hey, Micah, stop it. Micah! Come on. 31 00:01:39,390 --> 00:01:42,393 We were striving for the perfect family look. 32 00:01:42,894 --> 00:01:44,270 Micah, you moved. 33 00:01:47,690 --> 00:01:51,152 Mom, she's definitely the alpha woman 34 00:01:51,236 --> 00:01:53,238 but still quite soft around the edges. 35 00:01:53,321 --> 00:01:54,531 ♪ Oh, Hanukkah ♪ 36 00:01:54,614 --> 00:01:58,660 ♪ Come light the menorah ♪ 37 00:01:59,369 --> 00:02:00,369 Do it again. 38 00:02:01,121 --> 00:02:02,872 She is strong-willed, 39 00:02:02,956 --> 00:02:05,583 and she goes for what she wants with force. 40 00:02:06,209 --> 00:02:07,794 How would you describe Dad? 41 00:02:09,838 --> 00:02:11,214 Don't bang into the bars. 42 00:02:12,423 --> 00:02:16,094 Dad is one of the few people whose default state is happiness. 43 00:02:17,053 --> 00:02:18,763 He's just kind of a happy guy. 44 00:02:19,222 --> 00:02:21,391 What does the red light in this thing mean? 45 00:02:22,433 --> 00:02:24,561 - Daddy, can I go in here? - Yeah. 46 00:02:25,979 --> 00:02:26,979 Daddy! 47 00:02:28,231 --> 00:02:29,566 The description is always, 48 00:02:29,649 --> 00:02:31,569 "Look for the bald guy with a smile on his face," 49 00:02:31,609 --> 00:02:33,695 whenever he was lost in a shopping mall. 50 00:02:35,238 --> 00:02:38,241 It was definitely a good cop/bad cop duo. 51 00:02:40,118 --> 00:02:41,995 You know, here I was, this, uh... 52 00:02:42,078 --> 00:02:43,997 I would never call myself a soccer mom, 53 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,668 but I was certainly a working mother with three children. 54 00:02:50,628 --> 00:02:53,298 We didn't want them to know what we did at all, 55 00:02:53,381 --> 00:02:56,509 because we thought maybe people wouldn't, like, play with them. 56 00:02:56,593 --> 00:02:58,595 I think that's a very tough piñata. 57 00:03:00,847 --> 00:03:02,473 We never talked about it. 58 00:03:03,016 --> 00:03:05,935 It was just known that's how the family worked. 59 00:03:06,019 --> 00:03:08,646 You don't talk about family business in the family. 60 00:03:09,314 --> 00:03:11,274 If anyone asked us what our parents did, 61 00:03:11,357 --> 00:03:13,484 the official answer was, "Run a bookstore." 62 00:03:13,568 --> 00:03:15,111 "We own a bookstore." 63 00:03:15,195 --> 00:03:17,655 That's what you tell people. 64 00:03:18,656 --> 00:03:20,696 There were times we had to get to the store, 65 00:03:20,742 --> 00:03:23,995 'cause Mom was driving us home and needed to stop by. 66 00:03:24,078 --> 00:03:27,207 We were under strict instructions to stare down at the ground 67 00:03:27,290 --> 00:03:30,126 the entire time we were passing through certain areas of the store. 68 00:03:30,210 --> 00:03:31,836 "Don't look around. Look at the floor." 69 00:03:32,420 --> 00:03:33,588 But obviously... 70 00:03:34,047 --> 00:03:35,757 you know, wandering eyes. 71 00:03:37,050 --> 00:03:40,303 There was one time I found a VHS tape 72 00:03:40,386 --> 00:03:42,263 in the back of Mom's car, 73 00:03:42,347 --> 00:03:45,391 and I grabbed it, and hid it, and waited for months. 74 00:03:45,850 --> 00:03:47,894 Finally, everybody was out of the house, 75 00:03:47,977 --> 00:03:50,939 and I run to my hiding place, and I pull out this tape... 76 00:03:51,606 --> 00:03:54,442 and it turns out it was a Beta, and I couldn't watch it. 77 00:03:56,819 --> 00:03:59,989 So, Circus of Books is a bookstore 78 00:04:00,448 --> 00:04:04,744 and a hardcore gay, adult business. 79 00:04:23,554 --> 00:04:25,556 I would always see Circus of Books, 80 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,602 and I thought it was just... a bookstore... 81 00:04:30,019 --> 00:04:31,771 with a circus theme. 82 00:04:32,355 --> 00:04:33,731 And I went in and realized 83 00:04:33,815 --> 00:04:37,151 that it was so much more than just a regular bookstore. 84 00:04:38,778 --> 00:04:41,948 It had this whole section that was just, like, porn, 85 00:04:42,031 --> 00:04:43,866 P-O-R-N, you know. 86 00:04:43,950 --> 00:04:44,950 It was great. 87 00:04:45,994 --> 00:04:51,124 A purveyor of gourmet sexual material for every pervert in America, 88 00:04:51,791 --> 00:04:54,711 that was Circus bookstore's claim to fame. 89 00:04:55,295 --> 00:04:59,007 It made all these men comfortable exploring their own sexuality. 90 00:05:00,925 --> 00:05:03,720 Circus of Books was a safe place to find other gays. 91 00:05:04,554 --> 00:05:07,181 There was cruising going on in the book stacks. 92 00:05:08,266 --> 00:05:12,061 It was the center of the gay universe in that neighborhood. 93 00:05:16,024 --> 00:05:18,744 A regular feature here on 2 on the Town is to take a look 94 00:05:18,818 --> 00:05:22,113 at some of the famous and infamous streets of Southern California. 95 00:05:22,196 --> 00:05:24,324 And tonight, Lou Lauren takes us along with him 96 00:05:24,407 --> 00:05:25,825 to Santa Monica Boulevard. 97 00:05:26,743 --> 00:05:29,162 This is the face of Santa Monica Boulevard 98 00:05:29,245 --> 00:05:31,289 that is familiar to most outsiders. 99 00:05:31,372 --> 00:05:33,833 But the street also has a private side, 100 00:05:33,916 --> 00:05:37,086 perceived by outsiders only if it dawns on them 101 00:05:37,170 --> 00:05:40,590 that almost all of the people they see here are men. 102 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:44,594 In the first year I moved to Los Angeles, 103 00:05:45,178 --> 00:05:47,388 I found a place that was accepting. 104 00:05:48,556 --> 00:05:52,268 West Hollywood was mainly very young, gay people, 105 00:05:52,352 --> 00:05:54,479 and it was called Boystown. 106 00:05:54,562 --> 00:05:57,899 Back then, if you were out, you were an outlaw, 107 00:05:57,982 --> 00:06:00,318 and you did outlandish things, you know? 108 00:06:01,569 --> 00:06:05,031 That whole, like, toe-tapping, and cruising, 109 00:06:05,114 --> 00:06:07,450 and like, bandannas and flagging... 110 00:06:08,451 --> 00:06:11,371 People don't say, "Well, maybe I'd better get into a corner. 111 00:06:11,454 --> 00:06:13,164 My boss might see me here"? 112 00:06:13,247 --> 00:06:17,251 No, no, I think gay liberation is here, and there's no problem at all. 113 00:06:28,554 --> 00:06:30,515 My name is Alexei Romanoff, 114 00:06:30,598 --> 00:06:35,103 and I happen to be one of the last people who are still alive 115 00:06:35,186 --> 00:06:38,022 from the demonstration at the Black Cat. 116 00:06:42,026 --> 00:06:46,030 On New Year's Eve, 1966, 117 00:06:46,948 --> 00:06:50,410 there were police raids on two of the bars. 118 00:06:52,995 --> 00:06:55,331 Two or three seconds after midnight, 119 00:06:55,415 --> 00:06:59,377 after the song "Auld Lang Syne" was playing at the Black Cat, 120 00:07:00,545 --> 00:07:03,798 the police started to arrest people who were kissing. 121 00:07:07,135 --> 00:07:08,386 They were afraid, 122 00:07:08,469 --> 00:07:12,306 because if they got outed, they could lose their job, 123 00:07:12,974 --> 00:07:14,809 lose their homes. 124 00:07:20,398 --> 00:07:25,361 From that incident, came demonstrations against police brutality 125 00:07:25,445 --> 00:07:28,573 outside of the oldest gay bars in Los Angeles, 126 00:07:28,656 --> 00:07:31,033 the Black Cat and the New Faces. 127 00:07:33,035 --> 00:07:36,622 It was the largest demonstration in the country at the time, 128 00:07:37,206 --> 00:07:40,835 and it was two and a half years before Stonewall. 129 00:07:43,838 --> 00:07:47,383 The New Faces became the Circus of Books. 130 00:07:50,219 --> 00:07:52,638 That bookstore was really important, 131 00:07:53,389 --> 00:07:58,060 because there was literature in them that had to do with our lives. 132 00:07:58,853 --> 00:08:01,898 I mean, we were the unspoken, hidden people 133 00:08:01,981 --> 00:08:05,026 that you never talked about because they were disgusting. 134 00:08:06,944 --> 00:08:09,614 I can't even explain how different it was. 135 00:08:11,616 --> 00:08:15,870 To be a homo was unspeakable, basically. 136 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,083 Porn has always had a place in the gay community, 137 00:08:21,876 --> 00:08:25,254 because, you know, we didn't see anything like that. 138 00:08:26,255 --> 00:08:30,468 To see men, you know, naked and unafraid... 139 00:08:31,636 --> 00:08:33,763 that gave us a lot of pride. 140 00:08:34,722 --> 00:08:37,016 Circus of Books was my first glimpse 141 00:08:37,099 --> 00:08:40,394 into the fact that I wasn't alone as a gay person. 142 00:08:41,812 --> 00:08:44,649 Being gay back then was not easy, 143 00:08:45,066 --> 00:08:46,817 and this bookstore, you know, 144 00:08:46,901 --> 00:08:50,071 it kept me safe. It kept me out of harm's way. 145 00:08:59,205 --> 00:09:01,123 How are the sales today? 146 00:09:01,207 --> 00:09:02,667 They're on the slow side. 147 00:09:02,750 --> 00:09:03,751 Then up. 148 00:09:04,252 --> 00:09:05,461 Like every day, huh? 149 00:09:06,045 --> 00:09:08,881 Oh, looks like some of the VHS might have sold, huh? 150 00:09:08,965 --> 00:09:10,174 - Yeah. - Did it? 151 00:09:10,883 --> 00:09:12,343 - Yep. - Somewhat, yeah. 152 00:09:13,553 --> 00:09:16,097 So, I mean, I just see this this morning. 153 00:09:16,180 --> 00:09:20,893 Somebody brought in straight VHS tapes, and these are in really good condition. 154 00:09:20,977 --> 00:09:23,604 I don't know who's gonna buy the straight VHS tapes, 155 00:09:23,688 --> 00:09:25,189 but we didn't pay anything. 156 00:09:25,273 --> 00:09:29,110 We traded for books that we sell for a dollar. 157 00:09:30,403 --> 00:09:33,322 These are pills. These are called cock rings. 158 00:09:34,115 --> 00:09:36,117 Why is this going over there? 159 00:09:37,118 --> 00:09:39,328 I don't know why this is going over there. 160 00:09:40,496 --> 00:09:41,330 All right. 161 00:09:41,414 --> 00:09:43,791 We got a report of a rat. 162 00:09:44,917 --> 00:09:47,878 So one of the employees this morning happened to see it 163 00:09:47,962 --> 00:09:52,049 way back here where there is no food, but we just want to catch it 164 00:09:52,133 --> 00:09:56,721 before he decides to go up front and grab some of our snacks. 165 00:09:57,847 --> 00:10:01,017 Well, the front of the store has our most merchandise. 166 00:10:01,726 --> 00:10:06,397 So this guy here, Handjobs magazine, just stopped publishing. 167 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,025 Now, he does organic chicken farming. 168 00:10:09,108 --> 00:10:12,361 So when I order from him, we catch up on his chickens. 169 00:10:15,114 --> 00:10:17,283 Okay, so this is our adult section. 170 00:10:18,492 --> 00:10:19,577 Famous. 171 00:10:20,703 --> 00:10:23,289 So, this is one of our best sections of all. 172 00:10:23,372 --> 00:10:25,625 This is called "Previously Viewed," 173 00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:28,169 and these are... 174 00:10:29,211 --> 00:10:31,547 hardcore gay DVDs 175 00:10:31,631 --> 00:10:35,051 that customers bought from us over the years. 176 00:10:35,134 --> 00:10:37,762 I don't know that this is one of the really good ones. 177 00:10:37,845 --> 00:10:41,807 For a while, we were just doing buy-one-get-one-free with this sale. 178 00:10:42,433 --> 00:10:46,312 It's called Nude and Rude, directed by Carl Stanyon. 179 00:10:46,395 --> 00:10:48,814 But even at $3.95, 180 00:10:49,315 --> 00:10:52,026 they're not flying off the shelves. 181 00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:55,446 Some days, I go to work, 182 00:10:55,529 --> 00:10:59,075 and I feel like I'm just moving the deckchairs on the Titanic. 183 00:10:59,158 --> 00:11:03,120 I take a seven-dollar movie and reduce it to three dollars, 184 00:11:03,204 --> 00:11:06,832 and I move it from this side of the wall to that side of the wall. 185 00:11:07,625 --> 00:11:11,545 We're just an aging, ailing business. 186 00:11:13,422 --> 00:11:14,965 She set off to be a journalist, 187 00:11:15,049 --> 00:11:18,219 so she did not set off to go chart a different course. 188 00:11:19,428 --> 00:11:22,640 But I guess circumstances changed her from that path. 189 00:11:24,141 --> 00:11:26,352 But if you look at Mom's early reporting, 190 00:11:26,811 --> 00:11:30,272 she interviewed Larry Flynt. She wrote about smut raids in bookstores. 191 00:11:30,356 --> 00:11:31,356 - Really? - Yes. 192 00:11:31,399 --> 00:11:32,900 - That was her early reporting? - Yes. 193 00:11:32,983 --> 00:11:34,360 I had no idea. 194 00:11:34,443 --> 00:11:36,904 Me neither until I found her articles. 195 00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:42,618 Oh, this was our little, um... 196 00:11:43,202 --> 00:11:45,788 staff in Dayton. 197 00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:49,625 Whoa! You dressed kind of sexy actually. 198 00:11:49,709 --> 00:11:52,586 Yeah, I did. I had a nice figure. Look at that. 199 00:11:54,672 --> 00:11:56,173 Whoa! 200 00:11:57,007 --> 00:11:58,092 What? 201 00:11:59,093 --> 00:12:00,386 - Yeah. - What? 202 00:12:01,637 --> 00:12:04,432 See, but, Rachel, what are you gonna do with stuff like this? 203 00:12:04,515 --> 00:12:08,102 I mean, this is just stuff that I happened to be involved in. 204 00:12:08,185 --> 00:12:11,272 Okay, well, you're not somebody that makes documentaries. 205 00:12:11,355 --> 00:12:12,565 Well, neither are you. 206 00:12:14,024 --> 00:12:16,444 Well, if you want to take it and make a collage or... 207 00:12:16,527 --> 00:12:18,607 Mom, I don't know what I'm gonna do with it. 208 00:12:18,654 --> 00:12:22,616 Just stop criticizing every little possible turn of events. 209 00:12:23,284 --> 00:12:25,161 I want to find that Flynt article. 210 00:12:27,288 --> 00:12:28,956 Oh, look at this. 211 00:12:29,039 --> 00:12:31,709 "Six arrested in smut raids." 212 00:12:31,792 --> 00:12:32,792 Oh... 213 00:12:33,169 --> 00:12:34,795 So, this could be... 214 00:12:35,629 --> 00:12:38,591 "The judicial system moved with unusual speed Friday 215 00:12:38,674 --> 00:12:42,678 in the cases of six men charged with selling obscene material 216 00:12:42,762 --> 00:12:45,765 in downtown Cincinnati adult book stores." 217 00:12:47,349 --> 00:12:49,560 Karen and I met in high school. 218 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:53,731 She was outgoing, inquisitive, 219 00:12:53,814 --> 00:12:55,649 interested in everything. 220 00:12:56,275 --> 00:12:59,528 Karen always wanted to be a reporter. 221 00:13:00,821 --> 00:13:05,117 My first real newspaper job was at the Wall Street Journal in Chicago. 222 00:13:05,201 --> 00:13:08,120 And then I got hired at the Cincinnati Enquirer. 223 00:13:08,537 --> 00:13:10,289 The editor has arrived. 224 00:13:10,372 --> 00:13:12,958 It's a start of a typical work day at the newspaper. 225 00:13:13,042 --> 00:13:15,753 I specialized in criminal justice. 226 00:13:17,546 --> 00:13:19,799 My special project was to interview 227 00:13:19,882 --> 00:13:22,802 a Supreme Court Justice named Potter Stewart, 228 00:13:22,885 --> 00:13:27,223 who's particularly well-known for his obscenity decision, which said, 229 00:13:27,306 --> 00:13:31,602 "I can't really describe obscenity, but I know it when I see it." 230 00:13:33,270 --> 00:13:38,234 I interviewed Larry Flynt for a series on these Hustler bars. 231 00:13:38,317 --> 00:13:40,903 I'm a very unlikely person to be in this, 232 00:13:40,986 --> 00:13:45,449 because if I hadn't have ran away from home when I was 12 years old, 233 00:13:45,533 --> 00:13:47,576 I'd still be looking a mule up the ass. 234 00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:51,163 It was clear that he had a pretty big concept, 235 00:13:51,789 --> 00:13:54,625 and it looked like he was gonna be pretty successful. 236 00:13:56,836 --> 00:13:58,921 What was happening in that picture 237 00:13:59,004 --> 00:14:01,215 where you are looking around a car? 238 00:14:01,924 --> 00:14:04,134 There was somebody in a house, 239 00:14:04,218 --> 00:14:06,470 and they were trying to get him out, 240 00:14:06,554 --> 00:14:08,389 and I think shots were fired. 241 00:14:09,723 --> 00:14:12,852 She always wanted more exciting stories. 242 00:14:13,853 --> 00:14:16,230 She likes things to be hard. 243 00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:21,443 I never expected to be burned out of journalism, 244 00:14:22,403 --> 00:14:26,907 but a good newspaper story is very often somebody's tragedy. 245 00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:30,911 I covered plane crashes. I covered murders. 246 00:14:30,995 --> 00:14:32,788 I covered car accidents. 247 00:14:33,455 --> 00:14:36,333 At some point, you either get very jaded, 248 00:14:36,417 --> 00:14:38,002 or you say, "That's enough." 249 00:14:40,921 --> 00:14:43,215 I came out to LA to visit my parents, 250 00:14:43,299 --> 00:14:47,261 thinking I was gonna go to Alaska and be a freelance writer. 251 00:14:47,636 --> 00:14:49,430 I never went to Alaska, 252 00:14:49,513 --> 00:14:52,391 and I never did anything with freelance journalism. 253 00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:54,476 And is that when you met? 254 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,272 We met at a Jewish singles party in Woodland Hills. 255 00:15:00,190 --> 00:15:03,235 It was pretty dark. I don't know why it started so late. 256 00:15:03,819 --> 00:15:05,154 As I got to the party, 257 00:15:05,237 --> 00:15:08,282 there were some women leaving, and they said, "This is terrible party. 258 00:15:08,365 --> 00:15:10,034 Why don't you come with us?" 259 00:15:10,117 --> 00:15:13,829 I said, "Well, I drove all this way. I think I'll stay for a bit." 260 00:15:15,456 --> 00:15:19,543 I just happened to notice the light from the end of a cigarette. 261 00:15:20,044 --> 00:15:23,505 I said, "That looks like it might be a girl up there." 262 00:15:24,757 --> 00:15:27,426 He came over to me, and we just started talking. 263 00:15:27,968 --> 00:15:30,638 It was a very interesting conversation. 264 00:15:31,347 --> 00:15:33,027 The whole time, I couldn't see her. 265 00:15:33,098 --> 00:15:35,768 I mean, I couldn't see her face. It was so dark. 266 00:15:37,353 --> 00:15:39,521 He suggested we go for coffee. 267 00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:42,191 When she walked in, that's first time I saw her. 268 00:15:42,274 --> 00:15:43,567 She looked fine to me. 269 00:15:45,444 --> 00:15:47,905 And then, from then on, we just went out all the time. 270 00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:52,117 He had a motorcycle. 271 00:15:53,452 --> 00:15:55,496 Mother wasn't crazy about that. 272 00:15:56,330 --> 00:15:58,499 And we got married in seven months. 273 00:15:59,750 --> 00:16:00,876 I had a blue dress. 274 00:16:01,377 --> 00:16:04,171 He had a jacket that we paid five dollars for. 275 00:16:04,672 --> 00:16:05,899 - It was on sale. - Yeah. 276 00:16:05,923 --> 00:16:08,258 A lot of stripes, colored stripes. 277 00:16:09,051 --> 00:16:12,262 I remember she said he's this kind of genius, 278 00:16:12,346 --> 00:16:14,264 inventing gizmos. 279 00:16:16,266 --> 00:16:19,520 I started in UCLA's Motion Picture Department. 280 00:16:20,145 --> 00:16:24,566 Jim Morrison and his friend Ray Manzarek, 281 00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:26,443 those two hung around together. 282 00:16:26,527 --> 00:16:28,654 And since we were all in the same department, 283 00:16:28,737 --> 00:16:30,447 we shot movies together. 284 00:16:30,531 --> 00:16:31,573 But what happened? 285 00:16:31,657 --> 00:16:35,619 How come my parents, or the state, or the university didn't look ahead? 286 00:16:35,703 --> 00:16:39,164 I got my first job in the movies with Linwood Dunn. 287 00:16:39,665 --> 00:16:41,333 When I first got to work with him, 288 00:16:41,417 --> 00:16:46,088 we were just finishing up special effects for 2001: A Space Odyssey. 289 00:16:46,171 --> 00:16:48,382 Light it up. Okay, lights up, gentlemen. 290 00:16:55,723 --> 00:16:59,977 And then Star Trek came along, and we did that for three years. 291 00:17:05,941 --> 00:17:08,068 They used these optical printers. 292 00:17:08,152 --> 00:17:10,863 That was a very common thing in special effects. 293 00:17:11,321 --> 00:17:13,991 And since I knew a lot about color and light, 294 00:17:14,074 --> 00:17:17,161 I invented an accessory for dialysis machines. 295 00:17:17,244 --> 00:17:20,497 We have to back up and say his father was a kidney patient. 296 00:17:21,123 --> 00:17:24,126 Okay. So, I invented things for him and then... 297 00:17:25,044 --> 00:17:27,921 Well, you have to say why. In those days, 298 00:17:28,005 --> 00:17:32,051 Barry trained running his father's blood through the machine. 299 00:17:32,134 --> 00:17:35,054 The first night he was home, a tube broke, and he could have died. 300 00:17:35,137 --> 00:17:36,638 Yeah, he could have died. 301 00:17:36,722 --> 00:17:38,962 I said, "There's no reason I can't make a little detector 302 00:17:39,016 --> 00:17:43,604 that would detect when the tubing turned red instead of white." 303 00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:47,608 And so I... figured out a way to do that. 304 00:17:50,235 --> 00:17:54,948 So you actually just applied your special effects technology skills 305 00:17:55,032 --> 00:17:56,909 to medical devices, 306 00:17:57,618 --> 00:17:59,495 and you had no experience with that? 307 00:17:59,578 --> 00:18:00,578 Yeah. 308 00:18:06,502 --> 00:18:09,963 The technician who had trained me calls me, and he says, 309 00:18:10,047 --> 00:18:11,840 "Hey, Barry, you gotta quit your job. 310 00:18:11,924 --> 00:18:13,509 Your thing works so good 311 00:18:13,592 --> 00:18:15,803 that I went out, and I showed it to a company 312 00:18:15,886 --> 00:18:17,721 who makes actual kidney machines, 313 00:18:17,805 --> 00:18:20,891 and they're gonna order 325 of these." 314 00:18:22,518 --> 00:18:27,773 We made a very modest living as an inventor of dialysis equipment. 315 00:18:28,941 --> 00:18:33,862 But then malpractice insurance went up $35,000. 316 00:18:33,946 --> 00:18:36,115 Well, at that time, that's about what I was making. 317 00:18:37,533 --> 00:18:39,326 These doctors, they said, 318 00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:43,080 "Well, if you can't afford the insurance, we're out." 319 00:18:45,249 --> 00:18:47,334 We were not in a good place at all. 320 00:18:48,919 --> 00:18:53,507 We were starting a family and needed to make a living somehow. 321 00:18:55,676 --> 00:18:57,803 The basic unit of society 322 00:18:58,262 --> 00:18:59,263 is the family. 323 00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:02,683 And if you destroy that, 324 00:19:03,725 --> 00:19:05,477 you destroy society. 325 00:19:06,019 --> 00:19:09,982 And I'm firmly convinced that pornography, obscenity 326 00:19:10,357 --> 00:19:11,817 attacks the family. 327 00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:15,612 I decided a long time ago. If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly. 328 00:19:15,696 --> 00:19:17,176 I'm not rolling over and playing dead 329 00:19:17,239 --> 00:19:19,366 for him or any other prosecutor in America, 330 00:19:19,449 --> 00:19:23,287 because this country belongs to me as much as it belongs to them. 331 00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:27,332 I spent most of the '70s and '80s 332 00:19:27,416 --> 00:19:30,669 putting out censorship fires all over the country. 333 00:19:30,752 --> 00:19:33,380 - Hi. It's so good to see you. - How you doing? 334 00:19:33,463 --> 00:19:36,633 You put out an ad in the L.A. Times 335 00:19:36,717 --> 00:19:38,427 looking for small distributors. 336 00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:43,182 Well, because the establishment distributors 337 00:19:43,891 --> 00:19:46,852 would not distribute the magazine. 338 00:19:47,269 --> 00:19:52,274 So I went direct to a lot of bookstores and secondary distributors. 339 00:19:53,192 --> 00:19:57,779 The very day after I sold all our rights to these machines, 340 00:19:57,863 --> 00:19:59,489 Karen came in. I hadn't woke up yet. 341 00:19:59,573 --> 00:20:02,784 And she shows me a full-page ad from Larry Flynt 342 00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:05,954 that says he's looking for distributors. 343 00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:09,166 It was just something else he could do, because we didn't... 344 00:20:09,583 --> 00:20:12,169 He didn't... have anything to do really. 345 00:20:12,252 --> 00:20:14,129 Yeah, I was... I was sleeping late, you see, 346 00:20:14,213 --> 00:20:16,215 'cause I didn't have anything to do that morning... 347 00:20:16,298 --> 00:20:17,841 until she woke me up with the ad. 348 00:20:18,926 --> 00:20:20,260 I spoke to a woman, and she said, 349 00:20:20,344 --> 00:20:24,932 "You just need to send us an order for 2,500 magazines," 350 00:20:25,015 --> 00:20:29,144 and they would put us on as a distributor as long as we had a truck. 351 00:20:29,228 --> 00:20:31,355 And so, I said, yeah, I had a truck. 352 00:20:31,438 --> 00:20:33,857 Of course, I didn't, but I could rent a truck. 353 00:20:36,526 --> 00:20:39,988 You don't have the luxury of not earning a living. 354 00:20:40,072 --> 00:20:42,699 You have to figure out what you're gonna do. 355 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,040 Barry took our little station wagon out to the liquor stores in our area. 356 00:20:50,123 --> 00:20:52,963 I would say, "If you can't get it from your regular distributor, 357 00:20:53,001 --> 00:20:54,044 would you buy it from me?" 358 00:20:54,127 --> 00:20:57,798 And at the end of the day, I had 2,500 orders. 359 00:20:58,715 --> 00:21:02,678 Your mom and dad were one of our very first distributors 360 00:21:02,761 --> 00:21:04,179 in this area. 361 00:21:04,263 --> 00:21:06,473 And they grew, and they did very well. 362 00:21:07,391 --> 00:21:09,142 I told Karen, "This was so easy. 363 00:21:09,226 --> 00:21:11,687 Why don't I just see if I can get more customers?" 364 00:21:11,770 --> 00:21:14,940 We made enough money that we could just function 365 00:21:15,023 --> 00:21:17,192 while we figured out what we were gonna do. 366 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:21,780 Meanwhile, Flynt took over other magazine companies. 367 00:21:21,863 --> 00:21:24,741 So, now, we had several gay titles. 368 00:21:24,825 --> 00:21:26,326 One. We had Blueboy. 369 00:21:27,035 --> 00:21:32,416 Blueboy was one of the first really successful gay publications 370 00:21:32,499 --> 00:21:34,251 that was not underground. 371 00:21:35,002 --> 00:21:37,296 They had trouble finding a distributor, 372 00:21:37,379 --> 00:21:38,880 and they came to me. 373 00:21:38,964 --> 00:21:41,008 Then he got other ones, Honcho and Mandate, 374 00:21:41,091 --> 00:21:43,552 which were all the top gay magazines at the time. 375 00:21:44,136 --> 00:21:46,221 We had even thousands of titles: 376 00:21:46,305 --> 00:21:49,433 knitting magazines, woodworking, guns, you name it. 377 00:21:49,516 --> 00:21:51,935 - New York Review of Books. - Yeah, but fine, good magazines. 378 00:21:52,019 --> 00:21:54,062 We would try and get the better magazines, 379 00:21:54,479 --> 00:21:56,599 - and they sold it to us. - What do you mean "better"? 380 00:21:56,648 --> 00:21:58,734 - Like New York Review of Books. - No. 381 00:21:58,817 --> 00:22:01,903 The New York Review of Books never sold very well. 382 00:22:01,987 --> 00:22:03,405 What sold well was Hustler. 383 00:22:06,241 --> 00:22:09,453 I remember hearing that Barry was distributing Hustler magazine, 384 00:22:09,536 --> 00:22:12,622 and Circus of Books, or Book Circus, was on his route. 385 00:22:13,623 --> 00:22:17,377 The store was taking 600 of all the gay titles. 386 00:22:17,461 --> 00:22:19,588 I mean, I would load the whole truck up just for them. 387 00:22:19,671 --> 00:22:22,382 Book Circus was not paying their bills very well. 388 00:22:22,466 --> 00:22:26,094 And so, Barry saw an opportunity and pounced. 389 00:22:26,636 --> 00:22:29,890 When he stopped paying, I ran into his manager. 390 00:22:29,973 --> 00:22:32,684 He says, "He's become a terrible cocaine addict, 391 00:22:32,768 --> 00:22:34,603 and he's not paying anybody." 392 00:22:35,479 --> 00:22:39,524 I got the idea to call the landlord and offer him half the rent. 393 00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:42,944 So then, we actually were in business, and there was no more problems, 394 00:22:43,028 --> 00:22:46,823 other than the old owner threatened to kill me one day, and that was... 395 00:22:46,907 --> 00:22:49,076 But that didn't happen fortunately. 396 00:22:51,828 --> 00:22:54,748 There was this big, fluorescent sign. It said, "Book Circus," 397 00:22:54,831 --> 00:22:56,541 and we had to rename it. 398 00:22:56,625 --> 00:22:59,378 I said, "You know what? We could just cut that sign right in half, 399 00:22:59,461 --> 00:23:04,132 and flop the words around, and just pay for "of," and... 400 00:23:04,216 --> 00:23:06,301 I didn't know that you switched the sign. 401 00:23:06,385 --> 00:23:09,805 I mean, that's kind of like our whole philosophy of retail. 402 00:23:09,888 --> 00:23:14,351 How can we do this cheap? Because it may not work. 403 00:23:15,352 --> 00:23:16,895 I mean, if you look at the store, 404 00:23:18,021 --> 00:23:20,273 it's all kind of falling apart now. 405 00:23:22,818 --> 00:23:26,613 Don't Drop the Soap. Let me see what it says about that one. 406 00:23:27,447 --> 00:23:28,949 What are you looking for? 407 00:23:29,032 --> 00:23:31,326 I'm just trying to find 408 00:23:32,077 --> 00:23:35,997 something that isn't quite as explicit. 409 00:23:36,081 --> 00:23:37,165 What does he want? 410 00:23:37,249 --> 00:23:42,129 He wants a white man and no penetration, he said. 411 00:23:43,797 --> 00:23:46,091 Do these guys look white to you, Jorge? 412 00:23:47,843 --> 00:23:50,095 - Yeah, they're white, all of them. - White? All of them? 413 00:23:50,178 --> 00:23:51,388 Okay, good. 414 00:23:52,097 --> 00:23:54,558 Okay, so we'll take this one. 415 00:23:55,308 --> 00:23:57,060 Do these guys look white? 416 00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:03,191 See, all these boxes are full of DVDs. 417 00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:09,739 We made all the titles in this list here. 418 00:24:09,823 --> 00:24:13,076 - You guys made all of those? - Yeah, those sent you to college. 419 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,412 These are the videos that sent me to college? 420 00:24:15,495 --> 00:24:17,080 They certainly helped. 421 00:24:21,001 --> 00:24:22,711 What year were most of these made? 422 00:24:22,794 --> 00:24:25,130 Oh, you can't photograph those model releases. 423 00:24:25,213 --> 00:24:27,299 Mom, I'm just photographing the title names. 424 00:24:27,382 --> 00:24:29,301 Okay, you gotta stop filming, Rachel. 425 00:24:34,347 --> 00:24:35,932 So, now, Mom? 426 00:24:36,016 --> 00:24:38,059 So, where we're going now is to this... 427 00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:42,898 It's called Adult... ANME, Adult Novelty and... 428 00:24:44,483 --> 00:24:46,568 something Expo. ANME, yeah. 429 00:24:47,319 --> 00:24:50,197 And then I'm not going to this ever again. It's the last time. 430 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,114 Why? 431 00:24:51,198 --> 00:24:53,241 Because I don't like it. 432 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,872 She said we're gonna meet in the lobby, but I don't know where the lobby is. 433 00:24:58,955 --> 00:25:02,083 Can you just stop for one second, so I can put this mic on you? 434 00:25:04,127 --> 00:25:07,380 You can't just keep telling me what I can and can't do. 435 00:25:07,464 --> 00:25:09,549 I run a little business, 436 00:25:10,133 --> 00:25:13,929 and I don't usually have to answer to people. 437 00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:23,897 - Ellen's here. - Oh, hey, Ellen. 438 00:25:24,314 --> 00:25:25,732 I brought you an order. 439 00:25:26,650 --> 00:25:27,484 Excuse me. 440 00:25:27,567 --> 00:25:30,737 Yeah, I came... This is a bigger camera than last time. 441 00:25:31,196 --> 00:25:32,864 I didn't wanna poke myself in the head. 442 00:25:32,948 --> 00:25:34,991 Okay, this is an order. 443 00:25:35,075 --> 00:25:36,159 - Okay? - Okay. 444 00:25:36,243 --> 00:25:38,161 What kind of a special do you have this time? 445 00:25:38,245 --> 00:25:39,680 - I got a big special for you. - Okay. 446 00:25:39,704 --> 00:25:41,344 This gets rid of herpes, destroys herpes. 447 00:25:41,414 --> 00:25:44,584 Okay, we didn't do good with the... We didn't do good... 448 00:25:45,043 --> 00:25:47,170 Just give us the stuff we always sell. 449 00:25:47,254 --> 00:25:49,756 We're not doing good with new stuff. 450 00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:51,800 The other thing that I have that everybody likes, 451 00:25:51,883 --> 00:25:54,135 it's the lube, is the anal lube. 452 00:25:54,844 --> 00:25:57,847 - Which one is that? - It's this one. 453 00:25:58,473 --> 00:26:00,433 I mean, it's doing really well. It's our silicone. 454 00:26:00,517 --> 00:26:01,717 It's anal lube. It's silicone. 455 00:26:01,768 --> 00:26:03,520 It's got clove in it, so it's kinda numbing. 456 00:26:03,603 --> 00:26:04,603 So it's not gonna tear... 457 00:26:04,646 --> 00:26:06,486 - Okay, but do you have a smaller size? - Yeah. 458 00:26:06,523 --> 00:26:09,609 - Okay, so send me, like, 12. - It comes in a fishbowl. 459 00:26:09,693 --> 00:26:10,569 Okay, all right. 460 00:26:10,652 --> 00:26:11,796 - You want a fishbowl? - Yeah. 461 00:26:11,820 --> 00:26:13,420 - Okay, so just add that. - I'll do that. 462 00:26:13,446 --> 00:26:15,532 Okay, that's a nice order, Ellen. 463 00:26:16,116 --> 00:26:18,827 We're placing an order for those pills from China. 464 00:26:18,910 --> 00:26:20,870 I guess you only have 200 left. 465 00:26:20,954 --> 00:26:23,164 We got lots. I bought lots. We received a lot. 466 00:26:23,248 --> 00:26:25,792 Okay, is that still selling okay? 'Cause, uh... Hello. 467 00:26:25,875 --> 00:26:27,127 - How are you? - Okay. 468 00:26:27,210 --> 00:26:29,212 - Good to see you. How's everything? - Okay. 469 00:26:29,296 --> 00:26:30,213 Yeah? 470 00:26:30,297 --> 00:26:31,464 How's Barry doing? 471 00:26:31,548 --> 00:26:32,882 He's good, yeah. 472 00:26:32,966 --> 00:26:35,010 What happened to Frankie? 473 00:26:35,093 --> 00:26:37,363 - Are you Circus of Books in LA? - Yeah. 474 00:26:37,387 --> 00:26:38,805 I've been to your stores. 475 00:26:38,888 --> 00:26:39,973 - You're the owner? - Yeah. 476 00:26:40,056 --> 00:26:41,516 - Whoa! Good for you! - Yeah. 477 00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:43,350 Hello. 478 00:26:43,852 --> 00:26:47,105 All right, so what do you have besides a good name? 479 00:26:47,522 --> 00:26:50,025 Yeah, this is gay, right? 480 00:26:50,108 --> 00:26:52,819 - Or not necessarily? - Uh... Not necessarily. 481 00:26:52,902 --> 00:26:54,279 - Clamps... - Okay. 482 00:26:54,362 --> 00:26:57,198 Don't explain anything to me. Just, uh... 483 00:26:57,282 --> 00:27:00,869 If it's not for gay, then that's the reason we didn't do any business. 484 00:27:00,952 --> 00:27:03,014 What's something that would do well for you? 485 00:27:03,038 --> 00:27:05,832 Here, like this whole wall of stuff. 486 00:27:05,915 --> 00:27:08,293 But I don't particularly enjoy looking at it, 487 00:27:08,376 --> 00:27:11,796 so I can notice it without looking at it. 488 00:27:12,756 --> 00:27:15,383 So, this wall would probably do well for us, 489 00:27:15,467 --> 00:27:16,676 whatever it is. 490 00:27:17,927 --> 00:27:19,929 - That's it. Now, can we go? - Yeah. 491 00:27:23,516 --> 00:27:26,811 We hired the people who ran the store for the old owners, 492 00:27:26,895 --> 00:27:30,106 and they really taught us what we needed to know 493 00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:34,152 about how to get the merchandise, which was the key to the whole thing. 494 00:27:34,861 --> 00:27:38,490 I'm one of the buyers for the condoms, the lubricants, 495 00:27:38,573 --> 00:27:40,325 and some of the sale video. 496 00:27:40,742 --> 00:27:43,036 They pretty much let me decide. 497 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,081 You know, and if I make mistakes, it's no big deal. 498 00:27:46,164 --> 00:27:49,417 Karen and Barry were the absolute best. 499 00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:51,920 They were so good to me. 500 00:27:52,420 --> 00:27:55,590 It was always my dream to work in a porn store. 501 00:27:55,674 --> 00:27:59,844 I'm a weirdo and kind of a pervert, I guess. 502 00:27:59,928 --> 00:28:02,972 The heyday of this place was really, really jammin'. 503 00:28:03,556 --> 00:28:06,893 People spent money on books, magazines, you know, 504 00:28:06,976 --> 00:28:08,478 whatever they wanted to. 505 00:28:08,561 --> 00:28:09,813 Within the month, we opened, 506 00:28:09,896 --> 00:28:12,816 and the first day, the store did over $1,000. 507 00:28:16,361 --> 00:28:18,655 You got your magazines on that side of the store, 508 00:28:18,738 --> 00:28:21,700 and your real graphic, adult magazines were on this side. 509 00:28:25,328 --> 00:28:28,998 There was an alley behind Circus of Books called Vaseline Alley. 510 00:28:29,082 --> 00:28:31,876 Every community that has a big gay population 511 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,753 has a Vaseline Alley. 512 00:28:34,587 --> 00:28:37,549 It was a place where gay sex happens. 513 00:28:38,091 --> 00:28:42,345 I lost my virginity in the alley behind Circus of Books... 514 00:28:42,429 --> 00:28:43,847 with a cop in training. 515 00:28:43,930 --> 00:28:47,142 I mean, this was, like, every queer boy's wet dream. 516 00:28:47,767 --> 00:28:49,310 On my first night here, 517 00:28:49,394 --> 00:28:51,146 there's this guy in that corner... 518 00:28:51,229 --> 00:28:53,481 This is not even on the adult side. 519 00:28:53,565 --> 00:28:56,568 ...with his pants down, stroking. 520 00:28:57,318 --> 00:29:00,405 And I'm like, "Son of a bitch! My first night here, 521 00:29:00,488 --> 00:29:01,488 and this happens." 522 00:29:01,948 --> 00:29:04,159 You could walk back to the back room, 523 00:29:04,242 --> 00:29:07,495 and there were some steps to the attic, 524 00:29:07,579 --> 00:29:08,579 and... 525 00:29:09,456 --> 00:29:11,249 I had sex in the attic. 526 00:29:11,332 --> 00:29:13,793 Not full-on sex in the attic, but... 527 00:29:13,877 --> 00:29:15,628 I've never even been up there. 528 00:29:16,546 --> 00:29:18,923 I didn't even know that existed. 529 00:29:19,466 --> 00:29:21,092 I missed out, man. 530 00:29:21,843 --> 00:29:23,843 Did you ever hear about any of that stuff? 531 00:29:24,721 --> 00:29:28,308 You know, I heard about it, but I didn't think they were so crazy. 532 00:29:28,391 --> 00:29:30,435 The whole operation was a little goofy, 533 00:29:30,518 --> 00:29:33,271 so it would have to be something incredible 534 00:29:33,354 --> 00:29:36,441 for me to find it really crazy. 535 00:29:36,524 --> 00:29:39,110 When Barry walked in, you didn't change. 536 00:29:39,194 --> 00:29:41,321 You still continued reading a magazine. 537 00:29:41,404 --> 00:29:42,947 "Hey, Barry, how's it going?" 538 00:29:43,031 --> 00:29:45,158 When Karen walked in, phew, 539 00:29:45,241 --> 00:29:47,660 that magazine flew to the back. 540 00:29:48,161 --> 00:29:49,921 Your dad has always been the very mellow one. 541 00:29:49,996 --> 00:29:52,582 He's not the one that wears the pants in the family. 542 00:29:53,416 --> 00:29:55,043 I shouldn't say that on camera. 543 00:29:55,543 --> 00:29:59,422 They were very, like, no-bullshit, no-nonsense. 544 00:29:59,506 --> 00:30:03,176 "If you steal from us, you will be fired, and that's that." 545 00:30:04,260 --> 00:30:07,305 In the '80s, adult material was expensive, 546 00:30:07,388 --> 00:30:09,849 and it was illegal in some places, 547 00:30:09,933 --> 00:30:12,227 and if you could sell it, you could make a lot of money. 548 00:30:15,730 --> 00:30:17,482 A manager said to us, 549 00:30:17,565 --> 00:30:21,069 "You should open a Circus of Books in Silver Lake, 550 00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:24,447 and this will become your biggest store," and it did. 551 00:30:26,533 --> 00:30:29,202 They're not offended. They're not scandalized. 552 00:30:29,285 --> 00:30:30,161 It's their job. 553 00:30:30,245 --> 00:30:33,248 It's like they're selling apples at an apple cart. 554 00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:37,544 I don't think we had any misgivings about doing it. 555 00:30:37,627 --> 00:30:40,463 We just felt it was gonna be a very temporary thing 556 00:30:40,547 --> 00:30:44,676 until something came along that was, um... 557 00:30:46,553 --> 00:30:47,553 more substantial. 558 00:30:47,595 --> 00:30:51,933 Because, I mean, we're college graduates, and we had careers. 559 00:30:52,851 --> 00:30:55,854 That was, like, not anything anyone would do, 560 00:30:55,937 --> 00:30:58,773 and we certainly wouldn't tell anyone we were doing it. 561 00:30:59,274 --> 00:31:02,610 So then what led you to start making the adult movies? 562 00:31:03,611 --> 00:31:04,445 Oh... 563 00:31:04,529 --> 00:31:07,490 This way just a tad. There you go. Yeah, that's it. 564 00:31:07,574 --> 00:31:12,161 Somebody knew a very famous hardcore gay movie producer, 565 00:31:12,245 --> 00:31:13,371 Matt Sterling. 566 00:31:14,247 --> 00:31:16,541 He was looking for a legitimate distributor 567 00:31:16,624 --> 00:31:17,750 who he could trust. 568 00:31:17,834 --> 00:31:22,088 And he was coming out with this new movie, which no doubt was gonna be a hit, 569 00:31:22,171 --> 00:31:24,731 because it was also gonna star that, at that time, very famous... 570 00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:26,593 - Jeff Stryker. - Jeff Stryker. 571 00:31:26,676 --> 00:31:29,196 - Who was already famous. - Who was very famous. 572 00:31:29,220 --> 00:31:33,099 I mean, Jeff Stryker was, like, a superstar of gay porn. 573 00:31:33,224 --> 00:31:35,268 He was one of the biggest, you know. 574 00:31:35,351 --> 00:31:36,603 No pun intended. 575 00:31:37,812 --> 00:31:39,731 ♪ Lookin' so good, feelin' good ♪ 576 00:31:39,814 --> 00:31:41,983 ♪ When you know things are going right ♪ 577 00:31:43,943 --> 00:31:46,279 Are you willing to give me whatever I want? 578 00:31:46,654 --> 00:31:47,654 Anything. 579 00:31:48,698 --> 00:31:51,409 ♪ 'Cause I know who I am ♪ 580 00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:54,412 ♪ I'll do all I can now ♪ 581 00:31:54,996 --> 00:31:58,249 ♪ I'm a new man, dreams have come true ♪ 582 00:32:00,001 --> 00:32:01,586 ♪ Bigger than life ♪ 583 00:32:03,755 --> 00:32:05,089 ♪ Yeah! ♪ 584 00:32:07,842 --> 00:32:11,721 Hello. My name is Jeff Stryker, and... 585 00:32:13,014 --> 00:32:14,933 here I am. 586 00:32:15,016 --> 00:32:17,936 This is the Jeff Stryker action figure. 587 00:32:18,311 --> 00:32:21,814 It's 12 inches tall, anatomically correct, 588 00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:24,275 and the penis is pose-able. 589 00:32:26,152 --> 00:32:29,697 That's what I got over... an edge on Ken. 590 00:32:30,740 --> 00:32:33,409 You would never expect these people 591 00:32:33,493 --> 00:32:36,788 to be distributing adult movies worldwide, 592 00:32:37,163 --> 00:32:40,291 but they looked at it the same way I looked at it. 593 00:32:40,375 --> 00:32:42,043 You're creating a product, 594 00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:44,671 and it's the supply and demand. 595 00:32:44,754 --> 00:32:46,631 It's just business sense. 596 00:32:47,423 --> 00:32:50,343 It was strictly an opportunity. 597 00:32:50,802 --> 00:32:53,763 So we started a business, um... 598 00:32:54,597 --> 00:33:00,520 that made hardcore gay... films. 599 00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:08,528 They made Stryker Force, 600 00:33:08,987 --> 00:33:11,280 and it was hard to keep up with the demand. 601 00:33:13,908 --> 00:33:15,410 People were calling us 602 00:33:16,035 --> 00:33:18,746 and insisting we ship them the tape already. 603 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:21,290 I said, "I don't even have it yet. I can't ship it to you." 604 00:33:21,374 --> 00:33:23,251 It was like a panic to get this tape. 605 00:33:25,336 --> 00:33:27,880 In fact, we had him at our store signing the tapes, 606 00:33:27,964 --> 00:33:29,716 and there's a big line of customers. 607 00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:33,511 Barry would bring stack after stack of these boxes, 608 00:33:33,594 --> 00:33:36,723 and I would sign as long as they could supply them. 609 00:33:38,725 --> 00:33:41,227 Other people, when they knew we were distributing, 610 00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:44,022 they would come to us too and say, "Would you do ours?" 611 00:33:44,105 --> 00:33:48,192 Of course, by then, we'd hired another fellow to sell the tapes. 612 00:33:48,276 --> 00:33:50,587 Barry and Karen were behind the scenes, 613 00:33:50,611 --> 00:33:53,031 they wanted somebody like me to be their front man for them. 614 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,408 When we first started, 615 00:33:55,491 --> 00:33:57,910 we might have been releasing one movie every six weeks. 616 00:33:57,994 --> 00:34:00,121 And somewhere in the middle of that, 617 00:34:00,204 --> 00:34:02,165 we were releasing two movies a week. 618 00:34:03,416 --> 00:34:06,127 It was like riding a tiger, we used to say. 619 00:34:09,213 --> 00:34:11,841 So many companies wanted to do business with them 620 00:34:11,924 --> 00:34:15,011 because they're good, honest, trustworthy people, 621 00:34:15,094 --> 00:34:17,722 and in the adult industry, 622 00:34:17,805 --> 00:34:20,475 that was a rare bird at the time. 623 00:34:20,558 --> 00:34:23,394 This is one of the compilations I made for Barry and Karen. 624 00:34:23,478 --> 00:34:26,147 It's called Rimnastics Gold Part 2. 625 00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:29,734 "Video 10 Distributors has uncovered even more hot rimming scenes 626 00:34:29,817 --> 00:34:32,612 to bring you Rimnastics Gold Part 2. 627 00:34:32,695 --> 00:34:35,865 It's more than fantastic. Its rim-tastic." 628 00:34:35,948 --> 00:34:38,201 Sorry. Oh, my God! 629 00:34:39,118 --> 00:34:41,954 It never felt like we were getting into pornography. 630 00:34:42,038 --> 00:34:44,248 We were just getting into a different business 631 00:34:44,332 --> 00:34:46,709 that was related to the business we were already in. 632 00:34:47,210 --> 00:34:48,795 We never saw any of those movies. 633 00:34:54,634 --> 00:34:57,887 At one point, we were probably the biggest distributor 634 00:34:57,970 --> 00:35:01,682 of hardcore gay films in the United States. 635 00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:06,979 It was a very lucrative market, 636 00:35:07,063 --> 00:35:09,816 but you really took major chances, 637 00:35:09,899 --> 00:35:13,361 major chances of imprisonment 638 00:35:13,444 --> 00:35:18,199 in any part of, uh, the adult movies. 639 00:35:19,408 --> 00:35:21,702 Adult material, especially at that time, 640 00:35:21,786 --> 00:35:24,372 was a pretty polarizing thing. 641 00:35:25,331 --> 00:35:29,085 There were always people on the right 642 00:35:29,168 --> 00:35:32,839 who looked out for things they could demonize. 643 00:35:32,922 --> 00:35:37,093 Obscene publications are socially harmful. 644 00:35:37,176 --> 00:35:39,804 The Department of Justice says that pornography is a problem 645 00:35:39,887 --> 00:35:42,056 that pervades all levels of society. 646 00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:44,934 Should therefore be solved by all levels of government. 647 00:35:45,017 --> 00:35:49,605 Their anti-porn plan is expected to involve state and local participation. 648 00:35:49,689 --> 00:35:53,818 This was led by Meese, the Attorney General for Ronald Reagan. 649 00:35:55,862 --> 00:35:57,321 This administration is putting 650 00:35:57,405 --> 00:35:59,991 the purveyors of illegal obscenity on notice. 651 00:36:05,705 --> 00:36:08,666 I never felt free to let anybody know what we did. 652 00:36:10,585 --> 00:36:13,588 I don't think you would have cared, but I didn't want it. 653 00:36:13,671 --> 00:36:16,716 Right, I just didn't talk 'cause she didn't want me to. 654 00:36:17,258 --> 00:36:19,343 She preferred that I not tell people. 655 00:36:22,054 --> 00:36:23,848 If you went somewhere, and you said, 656 00:36:23,931 --> 00:36:25,183 "Well, I own Circus of Books," 657 00:36:25,266 --> 00:36:28,227 people would say to you, "Oh, I don't have any problem with that." 658 00:36:28,311 --> 00:36:30,521 So, it was like you were being judged. 659 00:36:30,605 --> 00:36:33,691 I mean, you don't go up to somebody when they say they're a teacher 660 00:36:33,774 --> 00:36:36,068 and say, "I don't have any problem with that." 661 00:36:36,152 --> 00:36:38,352 Or, "I'm a lawyer." "I don't have any problem with that" 662 00:36:38,404 --> 00:36:41,574 But they would say that to us. "I don't have any problem with that." 663 00:36:41,657 --> 00:36:45,036 And they probably did have a problem with that. I had a problem with that. 664 00:36:46,621 --> 00:36:52,001 Karen's problem with the whole sexually-explicit inventory, 665 00:36:52,084 --> 00:36:55,588 a lot of it, I think, has to do with her faith. 666 00:36:56,547 --> 00:37:00,092 She was raised in a conservative household. 667 00:37:00,927 --> 00:37:04,680 She loves to be in synagogue all day praying. 668 00:37:07,642 --> 00:37:09,977 Well, I always say we're a mixed marriage, 669 00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:13,147 because I'm the religious person, and he's not. 670 00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:16,692 He doesn't particularly like anything very spiritual, I don't think. 671 00:37:17,276 --> 00:37:18,903 - Pretty accurate. - Yeah. 672 00:37:22,823 --> 00:37:24,700 We've always belonged to a synagogue. 673 00:37:25,243 --> 00:37:27,995 Although, the synagogues never knew what we were doing. 674 00:37:28,746 --> 00:37:31,958 She was very afraid that the business, if it got out, 675 00:37:32,041 --> 00:37:34,377 would impact those relationships. 676 00:37:38,256 --> 00:37:42,426 Do you feel like we had a lot of, like, religious education or... 677 00:37:42,843 --> 00:37:44,720 So, I feel it was really complicated. 678 00:37:46,722 --> 00:37:47,640 Mom was kind of caught 679 00:37:47,723 --> 00:37:51,852 between this stuffy, conservative synagogue. 680 00:37:53,145 --> 00:37:54,897 But that's what she was born with. 681 00:37:55,815 --> 00:37:58,192 And us growing up in West Hollywood, 682 00:37:58,609 --> 00:38:01,153 which is just really secular and liberal... 683 00:38:02,655 --> 00:38:06,951 So, I feel like it was kind of forced on us... 684 00:38:07,952 --> 00:38:09,537 and not in a soft way. 685 00:38:10,288 --> 00:38:12,164 Mom's usual force of nature, 686 00:38:12,248 --> 00:38:14,333 "You are going to Sunday school" kind of way. 687 00:38:14,417 --> 00:38:17,297 Just go ahead. You have the Torah out. You have to be respectful. 688 00:38:17,336 --> 00:38:20,089 Now, come on. Find your... Come back here and find your spot. 689 00:38:20,172 --> 00:38:21,465 But, Mom... 690 00:38:21,549 --> 00:38:23,634 Find your spot. 691 00:38:25,928 --> 00:38:29,181 My reaction to a lot of the pressure was to be quiet. 692 00:38:30,975 --> 00:38:32,268 I know you fought with Mom a lot 693 00:38:32,351 --> 00:38:34,729 'cause you wouldn't dress the way she wanted you to. 694 00:38:35,688 --> 00:38:37,023 Definitely did your own thing. 695 00:38:41,152 --> 00:38:43,279 But I'm guessing Josh's reaction was, 696 00:38:43,362 --> 00:38:45,922 "Fine, I'm doing what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna do it perfect." 697 00:38:48,617 --> 00:38:55,082 I think I absorbed the most of Mom's ambition towards perfection. 698 00:38:57,126 --> 00:39:02,381 I was always looking to give a positive image to them, 699 00:39:02,465 --> 00:39:03,841 to everyone else. 700 00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:06,427 Use your power! Kick the thing! 701 00:39:06,844 --> 00:39:09,388 Just spread out, Joshua. All right! 702 00:39:09,472 --> 00:39:11,474 Get the ball! 703 00:39:12,516 --> 00:39:14,727 I wanted to be perfect. 704 00:39:18,522 --> 00:39:21,817 Do you remember writing this book when you were a kid? 705 00:39:21,901 --> 00:39:22,735 Don't remember it. 706 00:39:22,818 --> 00:39:26,280 It's called Boy by Joshua Mason. 707 00:39:27,656 --> 00:39:31,118 "In the future, my family would consist of my beautiful wife, 708 00:39:31,827 --> 00:39:32,995 me, and my three kids. 709 00:39:33,537 --> 00:39:37,083 I would live in a world so close to heaven it would be unreal." 710 00:39:37,875 --> 00:39:38,875 Oh, my God! 711 00:39:43,130 --> 00:39:47,301 I distinctly remember "gay" being a bad word. 712 00:39:49,637 --> 00:39:52,556 It was one of those words that you used about bad things. 713 00:39:56,185 --> 00:39:59,522 I definitely perceived that it was wrong. 714 00:40:08,656 --> 00:40:09,657 All right. 715 00:40:10,741 --> 00:40:12,159 Keys for her store. 716 00:40:12,827 --> 00:40:15,788 - Tom's gonna pull another 100 today. - Oh! 717 00:40:15,871 --> 00:40:16,956 And over the weekend. 718 00:40:18,249 --> 00:40:20,334 This used to be ten times more than this. 719 00:40:20,418 --> 00:40:22,420 I know. It seems like it's hardly any now. 720 00:40:22,503 --> 00:40:24,672 That's it. There's still a lot, 721 00:40:24,755 --> 00:40:26,966 but it's not nearly as much as it used to be. 722 00:40:27,049 --> 00:40:30,428 Yeah. Did you know many of the people in these films? 723 00:40:30,511 --> 00:40:33,305 Uh, I know some of the more famous ones. 724 00:40:33,389 --> 00:40:35,599 The Matt Sterling one, that was a very famous one, 725 00:40:35,683 --> 00:40:38,769 and Jeff Stryker, he was a very famous guy. 726 00:40:38,853 --> 00:40:41,730 - What happened to Matt Sterling? - Died. He died. 727 00:40:41,814 --> 00:40:44,108 Yeah, I know a lot of the producers of them. 728 00:40:44,191 --> 00:40:46,527 How many people would you think died 729 00:40:47,027 --> 00:40:48,821 in, like, a lot of these movies? 730 00:40:48,904 --> 00:40:51,949 A lot. When AIDS was going around, a lot of them died then. 731 00:40:52,032 --> 00:40:55,161 How old were a lot of them? Like, what would the average age be? 732 00:40:55,244 --> 00:40:58,038 In their 20s and 30s maybe. 733 00:40:58,539 --> 00:41:00,749 Those would be the ones I would see in the hospice, 734 00:41:00,833 --> 00:41:02,501 those guys I knew or... 735 00:41:03,419 --> 00:41:05,754 But a lot of them didn't do that. I didn't even know. 736 00:41:05,838 --> 00:41:06,838 They would just go home, 737 00:41:06,881 --> 00:41:09,383 maybe back to Wisconsin or wherever they were from, 738 00:41:10,009 --> 00:41:12,428 and, uh... that was it. 739 00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:20,186 Barry and Karen enjoyed a strange, freakish vantage point 740 00:41:20,269 --> 00:41:24,190 to bear witness to the epidemic without being part of it. 741 00:41:24,815 --> 00:41:26,817 I mean, my God! They ran a sex business. 742 00:41:27,818 --> 00:41:31,363 That was the locus of the population of the people that were dying. 743 00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:37,328 Nobody knew what it was caused from at first, 744 00:41:37,912 --> 00:41:39,872 and people were avoiding each other. 745 00:41:42,333 --> 00:41:44,293 We just didn't understand it. 746 00:41:46,587 --> 00:41:50,424 We were afraid of each other. 747 00:41:50,966 --> 00:41:52,801 More than 800 cases nationwide, 748 00:41:52,885 --> 00:41:56,680 and yet still surprisingly few people are familiar 749 00:41:56,764 --> 00:41:59,266 with the Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. 750 00:42:00,017 --> 00:42:02,561 The reason for that may lie in part 751 00:42:02,645 --> 00:42:05,314 in the character of its most common victims, 752 00:42:05,397 --> 00:42:09,443 homosexual males who frequently change sexual partners. 753 00:42:15,533 --> 00:42:17,618 We lost so many of our employees, 754 00:42:17,701 --> 00:42:21,038 and nice people. I mean really nice people. 755 00:42:21,914 --> 00:42:24,375 Talented, bright, young. 756 00:42:25,918 --> 00:42:28,379 It was a real, real tragedy. 757 00:42:29,713 --> 00:42:32,883 Ninety percent of the people I knew at that time 758 00:42:33,551 --> 00:42:34,969 are no longer here. 759 00:42:37,513 --> 00:42:43,185 I remember Barry visiting an employee who was in bed. 760 00:42:45,312 --> 00:42:49,275 We would call the parents and say, "Hey, your son is sick. 761 00:42:49,358 --> 00:42:51,068 Don't you wanna come and..." 762 00:42:51,151 --> 00:42:53,279 A lot of them would just say, "No, I don't. 763 00:42:53,362 --> 00:42:56,490 I kicked him out. I never wanna see the guy again." 764 00:42:56,949 --> 00:42:58,409 I'd say, "But he's your son." 765 00:43:00,703 --> 00:43:02,496 I was just so surprised 766 00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:05,165 that the parents could be so bad to their children. 767 00:43:05,749 --> 00:43:07,668 And I didn't think about the gay part of it. 768 00:43:07,751 --> 00:43:09,587 It was just their children. 769 00:43:15,926 --> 00:43:20,806 The employee who worked so closely with us to open that store 770 00:43:21,432 --> 00:43:23,601 went home on a Friday 771 00:43:24,143 --> 00:43:25,894 and died on Monday. 772 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,773 We were working with him until... 773 00:43:30,524 --> 00:43:34,403 literally, until he passed away. 774 00:43:36,155 --> 00:43:40,993 And I remember taking a call from his mother after he died. 775 00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:45,331 She wasn't in touch with him during that period, 776 00:43:45,414 --> 00:43:49,043 and I think she was feeling bad. I don't know what she wanted from me. 777 00:43:49,126 --> 00:43:51,086 But she should have visited him. 778 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,840 - It was a horrible, horrible time. - Yeah, really bad time. 779 00:43:57,343 --> 00:43:59,345 I remember going to the store 780 00:43:59,428 --> 00:44:03,599 and being like, "Oh, where's so-and-so?" "Oh, he just died." 781 00:44:05,351 --> 00:44:06,477 Something seemed... 782 00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:09,730 like a horror about that to me, 783 00:44:09,813 --> 00:44:11,940 but I didn't understand it till much later. 784 00:44:12,024 --> 00:44:15,069 I know they supported the gay community. 785 00:44:15,152 --> 00:44:17,321 I mean, they didn't set out to, but they did. 786 00:44:17,404 --> 00:44:22,451 They were not gonna let other forces tell them what to do. 787 00:44:24,036 --> 00:44:27,331 I think what we did was small, human kindnesses 788 00:44:27,414 --> 00:44:28,832 in a very small way. 789 00:44:32,419 --> 00:44:35,923 Government officials will very often use pornography 790 00:44:36,006 --> 00:44:41,345 as a means of deflecting attention away from their failures to do something. 791 00:44:43,472 --> 00:44:46,934 Attorney General Meese accepted the pornography report today. 792 00:44:47,017 --> 00:44:53,065 Obscenity, that illegal activity, it is not the kind of thing 793 00:44:53,148 --> 00:44:56,151 that is subject to the protection of the First Amendment. 794 00:44:56,235 --> 00:44:59,321 When that Meese commission was on, I would read about it all the time, 795 00:44:59,405 --> 00:45:02,366 and it was a totally stacked deck. 796 00:45:02,449 --> 00:45:05,994 Everybody that testified was anti-pornography people. 797 00:45:06,995 --> 00:45:11,166 So, the outcome was absolutely assured. They were just gonna say it was no good. 798 00:45:11,250 --> 00:45:13,001 Opponents say the commission 799 00:45:13,085 --> 00:45:15,629 is using a half-million dollar report to moralize. 800 00:45:15,713 --> 00:45:19,967 The government is attempting to obtain self-censorship 801 00:45:20,050 --> 00:45:23,470 by the threat of these draconian sanctions. 802 00:45:23,929 --> 00:45:26,557 They had a multi-million dollar task force 803 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,559 with all the money they needed 804 00:45:28,642 --> 00:45:30,561 with one mission, you know, 805 00:45:31,103 --> 00:45:34,273 to control people's reading and viewing habits 806 00:45:34,356 --> 00:45:37,693 and their sexual habits if they could. 807 00:45:37,776 --> 00:45:40,946 Isn't it about time we remove the profit motive 808 00:45:41,029 --> 00:45:43,490 from activities that are sick and obscene? 809 00:45:49,747 --> 00:45:51,832 One of the things you did in those days, 810 00:45:52,624 --> 00:45:56,962 was you only sold movies to people you knew. 811 00:45:57,045 --> 00:46:00,382 So, we sold movies all over the country, 812 00:46:00,466 --> 00:46:02,676 but only to companies we'd been dealing with. 813 00:46:03,844 --> 00:46:08,098 One day, somebody called up and ordered three films 814 00:46:08,182 --> 00:46:12,352 to, like, Joe's Video Store, in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. 815 00:46:12,436 --> 00:46:16,523 And our guy entered him in the computer and shipped them out. 816 00:46:17,191 --> 00:46:19,276 Unbeknownst to us, 817 00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:22,988 the prosecutor begins this process 818 00:46:23,071 --> 00:46:28,619 of illegal transportation of adult material over state lines. 819 00:46:29,828 --> 00:46:31,663 They were running a sting operation. 820 00:46:33,791 --> 00:46:37,169 The FBI comes in, like you see on television 821 00:46:37,252 --> 00:46:38,879 with FBI on their... 822 00:46:38,962 --> 00:46:42,382 - Jackets. Big letters. - ...jackets, and their guns drawn. 823 00:46:43,759 --> 00:46:46,637 We made some undercover purchases of this stuff, 824 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,181 and after consultation with the Prosecuting Attorney, uh, 825 00:46:49,598 --> 00:46:51,266 they issued us a search warrant. 826 00:46:54,937 --> 00:46:58,524 We were charged with shipping obscene material. 827 00:47:00,692 --> 00:47:03,904 It easily could have been a five-year jail sentence or maybe more, 828 00:47:03,987 --> 00:47:07,157 and the fines could have been very, very large. 829 00:47:10,452 --> 00:47:14,957 One of us was gonna have to go to jail, and I thought it had better be Barry. 830 00:47:16,834 --> 00:47:19,002 That lead prosecutor had 831 00:47:19,086 --> 00:47:22,798 put together a staff of very religious people, 832 00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:26,468 and he himself was very anti-porn. 833 00:47:27,094 --> 00:47:29,972 So they said Barry has to enter a guilty plea. 834 00:47:30,597 --> 00:47:33,308 He has to be convicted and made guilty of a felony. 835 00:47:35,686 --> 00:47:39,690 Jail is the worst place in the world you can be, but... 836 00:47:39,773 --> 00:47:42,401 fearing jail is... 837 00:47:43,068 --> 00:47:44,486 even worse. 838 00:47:46,238 --> 00:47:49,324 It was like a knife over our heads all the time. 839 00:47:50,534 --> 00:47:53,871 We never ever talked about it with anybody. 840 00:47:54,746 --> 00:47:56,748 Our parents didn't know what was going on. 841 00:47:57,416 --> 00:47:59,710 The kids didn't know what was going on. 842 00:47:59,793 --> 00:48:02,754 Our friends didn't know what was going on. 843 00:48:04,006 --> 00:48:07,009 I felt like I was going down in an elevator 844 00:48:07,092 --> 00:48:10,345 and was losing everything that was inside of me. 845 00:48:17,144 --> 00:48:19,730 Did you know about the FBI charges? 846 00:48:19,813 --> 00:48:22,190 I didn't know about the prosecution. 847 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:24,484 I think I'd heard... 848 00:48:25,319 --> 00:48:30,741 something about a video being mailed to Pennsylvania. 849 00:48:31,325 --> 00:48:33,493 They completely hid that from us growing up. 850 00:48:33,577 --> 00:48:35,746 I don't remember knowing about that at all. 851 00:48:36,622 --> 00:48:40,250 We just were completely kept in the dark because... you know, we were kids, 852 00:48:40,334 --> 00:48:42,461 and we're not supposed to be anywhere near that stuff. 853 00:48:42,544 --> 00:48:43,837 So because of that, 854 00:48:43,921 --> 00:48:46,131 I didn't have much of a connection to the business. 855 00:48:49,343 --> 00:48:52,220 Did you feel any connection to the store? 856 00:48:52,304 --> 00:48:57,184 I think the store definitely operated in its own sphere outside the family, 857 00:48:57,267 --> 00:48:59,603 but I think that's fairly... 858 00:48:59,686 --> 00:49:01,939 There's a conventional element to that. 859 00:49:03,065 --> 00:49:04,066 Parents go to work. 860 00:49:04,149 --> 00:49:07,069 They don't necessarily talk about what they do all the time. 861 00:49:08,111 --> 00:49:09,947 Stop rubbing your eyes! 862 00:49:11,907 --> 00:49:16,453 I think the family at home fell into a conventional pattern. 863 00:49:16,536 --> 00:49:18,681 - Did Josh say that to you? - Really? 864 00:49:18,705 --> 00:49:19,998 Yeah, he did. 865 00:49:20,749 --> 00:49:24,878 We all talked about kids, getting married, and being straight. 866 00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:28,590 Nobody sort of questioned it. 867 00:49:31,843 --> 00:49:34,346 I think even my understanding of... 868 00:49:35,389 --> 00:49:39,267 um, gays and gay life was through... 869 00:49:40,185 --> 00:49:42,437 through the business in a strange way. 870 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,359 And I would like to say, you've been a pretty good kid. 871 00:49:47,442 --> 00:49:49,528 I really like being your mother. 872 00:49:52,572 --> 00:49:54,282 Realizing I was gay 873 00:49:54,366 --> 00:50:00,038 was a kind of long, ambiguous period. 874 00:50:02,749 --> 00:50:05,502 I was keeping that secret from the world... 875 00:50:06,837 --> 00:50:10,007 'cause being gay was not acceptable. 876 00:50:14,052 --> 00:50:16,722 But did you ever know or see people 877 00:50:16,805 --> 00:50:18,682 that just were gay, like, 878 00:50:18,765 --> 00:50:22,144 and that, you know, you recognized and like, "Oh, that's gay. 879 00:50:22,227 --> 00:50:24,980 - That's cool. That's like a thing." - No. Definitely not. 880 00:50:25,063 --> 00:50:28,275 I think I was kind of actively ignoring... 881 00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:29,943 um... 882 00:50:30,652 --> 00:50:32,779 all the gay issues in the world... 883 00:50:33,363 --> 00:50:36,658 much like my straight high school friends. 884 00:50:36,742 --> 00:50:41,038 You just didn't talk about gays or, you know, what it was like. 885 00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:45,792 It was very archetypal, 886 00:50:45,876 --> 00:50:47,753 jocks picking on the gays. 887 00:50:48,128 --> 00:50:50,130 Idiot! 888 00:50:51,048 --> 00:50:54,384 I did what I could to keep myself out of the gay category, 889 00:50:54,468 --> 00:50:57,971 but I wasn't good enough to be heterosexual. 890 00:50:58,055 --> 00:51:01,516 So I was just asexual as far as they were concerned. 891 00:51:04,269 --> 00:51:06,313 I put a lot of pressure on myself 892 00:51:06,396 --> 00:51:10,692 to be the more conventional, rule-follower child. 893 00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:12,235 You ready, Dad? 894 00:51:14,905 --> 00:51:15,989 Whoa! Yeah! 895 00:51:16,448 --> 00:51:19,618 I think I filled every available gap 896 00:51:19,701 --> 00:51:21,870 in the day with some sort of activity. 897 00:51:22,579 --> 00:51:24,539 So I had diving, 898 00:51:24,623 --> 00:51:26,166 gymnastics team. 899 00:51:33,715 --> 00:51:37,928 Did you feel, like, pressure to pretend that you were straight? 900 00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:40,931 There was a lot of pressure towards dating. 901 00:51:42,432 --> 00:51:45,936 There were kids that lost their virginity and stuff like that. 902 00:51:46,353 --> 00:51:48,271 Um... Not me. 903 00:51:52,234 --> 00:51:53,527 It's just so weird to me 904 00:51:53,610 --> 00:51:56,530 that you wouldn't have thought that I would have cared, right? 905 00:51:56,613 --> 00:51:58,782 I mean, I didn't care. I wouldn't... 906 00:51:58,865 --> 00:52:01,034 I mean, my world was gay anyway. 907 00:52:01,118 --> 00:52:03,995 Like, why wouldn't you have wanted to jump into my world? 908 00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:06,665 Your world was too gay. 909 00:52:06,748 --> 00:52:08,708 Your world was too gay. It was too artsy. 910 00:52:08,792 --> 00:52:11,461 I didn't connect with it. I think that was... 911 00:52:12,462 --> 00:52:13,672 That wasn't where I was. 912 00:52:13,755 --> 00:52:15,590 It's not where I am, I don't think. 913 00:52:20,929 --> 00:52:23,682 So, Fernando, can you tell me how we met? 914 00:52:24,224 --> 00:52:26,184 So, we met in ninth grade. 915 00:52:27,144 --> 00:52:29,271 At that time, you kind of recognized those people 916 00:52:29,354 --> 00:52:31,815 that were living to the beat of their own drum, 917 00:52:31,898 --> 00:52:34,025 I would say, um, through... 918 00:52:34,860 --> 00:52:37,737 you know, hair, and clothes, and music. 919 00:52:37,821 --> 00:52:40,532 And you were one of those people 920 00:52:40,615 --> 00:52:44,327 that had the whole package of what I was looking for in a friend, 921 00:52:44,411 --> 00:52:47,998 you know, someone that just, again, walked to the beat of their own drum. 922 00:52:50,083 --> 00:52:52,210 Ooh! 923 00:52:52,294 --> 00:52:54,171 Always looking for attention! 924 00:52:54,254 --> 00:52:58,175 Pssht! Oh, nice coming from you, Miss Green. 925 00:52:59,926 --> 00:53:05,056 Do you feel like our friend group identified as the queer group at school? 926 00:53:05,140 --> 00:53:09,603 We didn't really identify as queer. 927 00:53:10,020 --> 00:53:16,193 In the '90s, we identified as weirdos, artists, punk rockers, rebels. 928 00:53:16,276 --> 00:53:19,988 Like, that was our identity, and that's what drew us all together. 929 00:53:20,071 --> 00:53:23,825 That's why it was so accepting for all of our friends 930 00:53:23,909 --> 00:53:27,454 to experiment with their sexuality. 931 00:53:27,537 --> 00:53:31,041 Can I come over and, like, hang out with your computer? 932 00:53:31,625 --> 00:53:32,625 Okay. 933 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,296 Do you remember when I found out about the store? 934 00:53:36,379 --> 00:53:37,379 Yes. 935 00:53:38,590 --> 00:53:41,259 You had said, "My parents own a bookstore." 936 00:53:41,801 --> 00:53:44,346 And I said, "Oh, what bookstore do they own?" 937 00:53:44,429 --> 00:53:46,348 You're just like, "They own a bookstore. 938 00:53:46,431 --> 00:53:48,831 You probably never heard of it. It's called Circus of Books." 939 00:53:49,517 --> 00:53:53,521 And we were like, "Circus of Books? What?" 940 00:53:53,605 --> 00:53:55,899 "Rachel, Circus of Book is a porno store!" 941 00:53:58,443 --> 00:54:00,654 I just remember being really confused 942 00:54:00,737 --> 00:54:03,657 'cause it didn't align with who I thought my parents were. 943 00:54:05,116 --> 00:54:08,870 It was sort of an interesting, fun secret, but also kind of a dangerous secret, 944 00:54:08,954 --> 00:54:11,456 'cause I could definitely tell it could easily be a problem. 945 00:54:12,540 --> 00:54:14,793 As rebellious and as precocious as we were, 946 00:54:14,876 --> 00:54:16,586 we were still pretty innocent. 947 00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:20,674 What's funny to me is that 948 00:54:20,757 --> 00:54:25,136 I didn't think my parents got my world with artists and queer kids. 949 00:54:26,096 --> 00:54:28,682 But they were actually intersecting with my scene 950 00:54:28,765 --> 00:54:30,517 without me even realizing it. 951 00:54:31,309 --> 00:54:34,688 Yeah, it felt like we had seen Karen and Barry one way, 952 00:54:34,771 --> 00:54:37,274 very parental and a little bit more strict. 953 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,068 Certainly not subversive, you know? 954 00:54:40,151 --> 00:54:42,696 Certainly not part of the counterculture. 955 00:54:44,322 --> 00:54:48,159 But when we realized they were invested in Circus of Books, 956 00:54:48,243 --> 00:54:51,371 it started to become clear to us 957 00:54:51,454 --> 00:54:54,958 your parents were more layered than we had previously thought. 958 00:54:56,209 --> 00:54:59,754 It allowed us to realize 959 00:54:59,838 --> 00:55:01,965 that you can live as an adult 960 00:55:03,675 --> 00:55:05,343 without following the path 961 00:55:05,427 --> 00:55:07,429 that everyone's telling you you need to follow. 962 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,102 I think that when your parents acquired their business, 963 00:55:14,185 --> 00:55:19,024 they really didn't know what they were potentially facing, 964 00:55:19,107 --> 00:55:22,193 and the terrible thing about it was that nobody could know. 965 00:55:23,653 --> 00:55:26,740 There was no way to look at the obscenity statute 966 00:55:26,823 --> 00:55:29,617 and predict whether something that one was selling 967 00:55:29,701 --> 00:55:31,411 might trigger a prosecution. 968 00:55:32,495 --> 00:55:36,499 We knew people who had been in this business and had gone to jail. 969 00:55:36,583 --> 00:55:41,713 But what I thought initially was, "We'll just go out of business," 970 00:55:42,130 --> 00:55:45,800 and when we finally sat down with John Weston, 971 00:55:45,884 --> 00:55:48,470 he said that is a terrible, terrible plan. 972 00:55:49,387 --> 00:55:52,223 Government always wants its pound of flesh. 973 00:55:53,016 --> 00:55:56,227 So, if at the very beginning of something, you close it down, 974 00:55:56,853 --> 00:55:58,980 then you've got less to offer. 975 00:55:59,814 --> 00:56:02,233 If the war on drugs ever goes away, 976 00:56:02,317 --> 00:56:06,696 all these people who fight drugs are going to lose their jobs. 977 00:56:06,780 --> 00:56:10,825 Well, it was the same thing with people who fought obscenity. 978 00:56:10,909 --> 00:56:13,203 They needed somebody to negotiate with, 979 00:56:13,286 --> 00:56:16,748 and so we were advised not to close at all, 980 00:56:16,831 --> 00:56:19,167 but to stay in business and fight. 981 00:56:20,543 --> 00:56:23,380 I mean, it's scary when the government comes after you. 982 00:56:23,463 --> 00:56:25,882 That is just really powerful... 983 00:56:26,841 --> 00:56:29,010 and for basically religious reasons. 984 00:56:30,136 --> 00:56:32,180 It's pretty scary stuff to me. 985 00:56:33,431 --> 00:56:36,101 I got a communication from the government, saying, 986 00:56:36,184 --> 00:56:38,895 "We need Barry Mason to say, 'Guilty.'" 987 00:56:40,021 --> 00:56:43,400 He has to be convicted and made guilty of a felony. 988 00:56:45,443 --> 00:56:48,905 Just at a human level, the idea that Barry Mason should be a felon 989 00:56:48,988 --> 00:56:50,323 was just unacceptable. 990 00:56:50,407 --> 00:56:53,660 I mean, that's just not part of any world that I'd wanna live in. 991 00:56:54,661 --> 00:56:57,997 And so I implored them to reconsider. 992 00:56:59,624 --> 00:57:01,668 To see who he was as a person, 993 00:57:01,751 --> 00:57:04,587 and what the impact on him, and his family, 994 00:57:04,671 --> 00:57:06,589 and to some extent, you, would have been 995 00:57:06,673 --> 00:57:08,633 if your dad had been forced to stand up in court 996 00:57:08,716 --> 00:57:11,886 and say, "Yes, I'm guilty. I've committed a federal felony." 997 00:57:14,639 --> 00:57:18,810 The reason it was resolved was that Bill Clinton got elected. 998 00:57:18,893 --> 00:57:21,771 The President of the United States, Bill Clinton. 999 00:57:22,355 --> 00:57:23,648 All right. 1000 00:57:23,731 --> 00:57:24,732 Thank you. 1001 00:57:25,733 --> 00:57:28,736 So, the prosecutors got switched. 1002 00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:30,780 There was a different attitude towards obscenity, 1003 00:57:30,864 --> 00:57:33,158 and I'm sure that created a climate 1004 00:57:33,241 --> 00:57:40,206 which allowed my earnest request for reconsideration to be evaluated. 1005 00:57:40,623 --> 00:57:44,377 They were able to see the fineness of your dad. 1006 00:57:47,755 --> 00:57:50,842 They accepted the guilty plea by the corporation. 1007 00:57:51,384 --> 00:57:54,637 Corporation pleads guilty. They let you out on parole. 1008 00:57:55,263 --> 00:57:57,765 I had to just go down to the Federal building once a month, 1009 00:57:57,849 --> 00:57:59,225 sign a little piece of paper 1010 00:57:59,309 --> 00:58:02,854 that said I didn't commit any crimes that month, 1011 00:58:02,937 --> 00:58:06,774 and then that ended the whole situation. I was off. 1012 00:58:07,984 --> 00:58:12,739 It turns out our First Amendment rights are really protected 1013 00:58:12,822 --> 00:58:18,703 by the most extreme kind of speech and the most extreme kind of material. 1014 00:58:20,121 --> 00:58:24,250 The greatest right that any nation can afford its people 1015 00:58:24,334 --> 00:58:26,127 is the right to be left alone. 1016 00:58:27,337 --> 00:58:29,339 Josh needs a perfectly round head. 1017 00:58:29,422 --> 00:58:30,422 Say hi. 1018 00:58:36,137 --> 00:58:37,472 So what did you just say? 1019 00:58:37,555 --> 00:58:42,644 So, in June, both stores had the worst month they've ever had. 1020 00:58:43,102 --> 00:58:44,102 And... 1021 00:58:44,562 --> 00:58:48,650 it's still profitable, but it's not, um... 1022 00:58:48,733 --> 00:58:50,652 It's not sustainable. 1023 00:58:50,735 --> 00:58:53,571 At some point, it's just... 1024 00:58:53,655 --> 00:58:54,906 Like yesterday. 1025 00:58:56,115 --> 00:58:57,742 I was leaving the store, 1026 00:58:58,326 --> 00:59:00,203 and I'm trying to get out, and I can't, 1027 00:59:00,286 --> 00:59:02,622 because the man there just bought something, 1028 00:59:02,705 --> 00:59:04,624 and he's got a walker. 1029 00:59:04,707 --> 00:59:07,085 And he's sort of looking at what he bought, 1030 00:59:07,168 --> 00:59:08,545 so he's not opening the door. 1031 00:59:08,628 --> 00:59:11,047 And because he's got the walker, he's stuck there. 1032 00:59:11,130 --> 00:59:14,884 And this is our customer base. They're aging, uh... 1033 00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:16,886 mostly men... 1034 00:59:17,428 --> 00:59:19,430 who can barely even walk. 1035 00:59:19,514 --> 00:59:21,683 Are you, like, mixing it in as a cereal? 1036 00:59:21,766 --> 00:59:24,286 Yeah, 'cause otherwise, you can't eat the little pieces. 1037 00:59:24,310 --> 00:59:25,710 This way, I can eat all the pieces. 1038 00:59:25,770 --> 00:59:28,856 So, I think instead of a business decision, 1039 00:59:28,940 --> 00:59:32,277 I have a psychology problem because... 1040 00:59:33,111 --> 00:59:35,989 you know, I've run this business for all these years 1041 00:59:36,072 --> 00:59:37,865 without knowing what I'm doing, 1042 00:59:38,449 --> 00:59:40,368 and... 1043 00:59:40,952 --> 00:59:43,079 I need to close it, 1044 00:59:43,162 --> 00:59:48,751 but I still got people working for me who won't get as good a job if they... 1045 00:59:48,835 --> 00:59:52,088 - That's cheese. - Cottage cheese, yeah. 1046 00:59:52,171 --> 00:59:54,299 - If they, um... - Cheese. 1047 00:59:55,133 --> 00:59:57,176 ...you know, if we close. 1048 00:59:58,344 --> 00:59:59,554 I don't know. 1049 00:59:59,971 --> 01:00:01,639 You know, that's... I don't know. 1050 01:00:03,933 --> 01:00:07,061 And I don't know why you think this is worth documenting. 1051 01:00:08,438 --> 01:00:11,774 Because, I mean, this happens in small business. 1052 01:00:11,899 --> 01:00:15,987 It's just... It's a different, um, business model. 1053 01:00:16,070 --> 01:00:17,488 I don't like all this filming. 1054 01:00:17,572 --> 01:00:20,450 I don't know what you're gonna come up with from this. 1055 01:00:22,744 --> 01:00:25,872 Karen and Barry were in a constant state 1056 01:00:25,955 --> 01:00:30,251 of... panic about the collapse of their business. 1057 01:00:32,003 --> 01:00:34,172 And so, it was constantly like, 1058 01:00:34,255 --> 01:00:37,634 "Oh, this is it. We're closing the doors this week. 1059 01:00:37,717 --> 01:00:39,844 This is it. This is the end." 1060 01:00:39,927 --> 01:00:41,512 That was always the case. 1061 01:00:41,596 --> 01:00:44,182 So, that's why I'm sort of in disbelief about it closing. 1062 01:00:44,265 --> 01:00:46,726 I'm like, "Well, it was always about to close." 1063 01:00:53,399 --> 01:00:55,026 These are letters of reference. 1064 01:00:55,109 --> 01:00:58,404 It just says, "He's worked for us for over 25 years. 1065 01:00:58,488 --> 01:01:01,991 And if you need a good, honest, reliable, hard-working employee, 1066 01:01:02,075 --> 01:01:03,826 you've found him in Ben." 1067 01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:06,704 - Oh, I'm so sorry, but good for you. - Thanks. 1068 01:01:09,123 --> 01:01:11,793 Today is my last day. I'm retiring. 1069 01:01:13,419 --> 01:01:16,047 So, I'd say it's kind of a depressor, 1070 01:01:16,631 --> 01:01:18,007 but it's time. 1071 01:01:19,509 --> 01:01:23,388 The worst thing in the world is laying off a good employee... 1072 01:01:25,431 --> 01:01:28,434 because you can't afford to keep them anymore. 1073 01:01:28,518 --> 01:01:30,812 It's a terrible thing to do. 1074 01:01:33,022 --> 01:01:34,649 The past will never come back. 1075 01:01:35,817 --> 01:01:38,236 And unless you're willing to invest in the future, 1076 01:01:38,319 --> 01:01:40,988 there's no use even trying to... 1077 01:01:41,447 --> 01:01:43,533 exist anymore. 1078 01:01:45,618 --> 01:01:47,036 "As I'm sure you can see, 1079 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:51,749 business at the store is slowing down despite our best efforts to improve sales. 1080 01:01:51,833 --> 01:01:53,000 This is to let you know 1081 01:01:53,084 --> 01:01:56,462 that I have listed the store for lease with a real estate agent. 1082 01:01:56,546 --> 01:01:59,173 I welcome any suggestion of new merchandise 1083 01:01:59,257 --> 01:02:02,051 and any ideas for a different use of the space." 1084 01:02:03,970 --> 01:02:06,305 Post it here by the time clock. 1085 01:02:07,807 --> 01:02:08,808 Let me see. 1086 01:02:09,434 --> 01:02:10,768 Okay, so this is... 1087 01:02:12,145 --> 01:02:13,896 That's gonna go... They'll see it. 1088 01:02:19,736 --> 01:02:23,865 Can you describe that day that you came out to Mom and Dad, 1089 01:02:23,948 --> 01:02:28,202 and what led you to feel that you could be more open about it? 1090 01:02:28,286 --> 01:02:31,247 What led you to really think that you should be? 1091 01:02:31,330 --> 01:02:35,376 So, it probably wasn't until after high school 1092 01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:39,338 that it even started to enter my mind as an option. 1093 01:02:39,422 --> 01:02:43,509 And it wasn't really until college that I sort of started transitioning 1094 01:02:43,593 --> 01:02:50,057 from, um, who I was outwardly towards who I felt like I was inwardly. 1095 01:02:52,935 --> 01:02:55,605 I came home a number of times from college 1096 01:02:55,688 --> 01:02:59,484 expecting to come out, and it didn't happen. 1097 01:03:01,444 --> 01:03:04,989 I put a lot of pressure on myself to kind of make it happen. 1098 01:03:07,617 --> 01:03:10,203 I made sure I had my flight... 1099 01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:12,163 booked and paid for, 1100 01:03:12,663 --> 01:03:17,084 'cause it wasn't an impossible thought 1101 01:03:17,168 --> 01:03:20,505 that, um, you know, I was gonna get thrown out. 1102 01:03:22,548 --> 01:03:23,548 Yeah. 1103 01:03:25,051 --> 01:03:26,052 Are you okay? 1104 01:03:32,391 --> 01:03:34,185 Should I read the questions to myself? 1105 01:03:34,268 --> 01:03:37,396 No, I'm sorry. It's just upsetting to me to hear that. 1106 01:03:42,151 --> 01:03:43,271 Friday night dinner, 1107 01:03:43,319 --> 01:03:46,113 just before he was going back to school at Columbia. 1108 01:03:46,781 --> 01:03:48,783 He was at one end of our dining room table, 1109 01:03:48,866 --> 01:03:50,034 and I was at the other. 1110 01:03:51,244 --> 01:03:56,082 Someone was having a conversation that required a Post-It Note and a pen. 1111 01:03:56,999 --> 01:04:00,211 And I just started scribbling on the Post-It Note, "I'm gay." 1112 01:04:02,505 --> 01:04:05,299 I flung the pen and paper on the table. 1113 01:04:06,843 --> 01:04:10,304 And I'm trying to see who wrote this note, 'cause it didn't have his name on it. 1114 01:04:12,139 --> 01:04:15,393 Finally, his mother and him went upstairs, 1115 01:04:15,476 --> 01:04:16,978 and I said, "Wow! It's Josh." 1116 01:04:19,564 --> 01:04:22,233 I said, "Are you sure? Why are you doing this? 1117 01:04:22,650 --> 01:04:24,360 God must be punishing me." 1118 01:04:25,653 --> 01:04:28,281 God would punish her for having this business, 1119 01:04:28,656 --> 01:04:32,034 and I think she was thinking this was a punishment. 1120 01:04:35,538 --> 01:04:37,290 Up until that point, 1121 01:04:37,373 --> 01:04:43,796 it had just existed somewhere outside any of my core values. 1122 01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:45,256 It wasn't, uh... 1123 01:04:45,339 --> 01:04:48,593 It wasn't something I really needed to think very hard about. 1124 01:04:49,135 --> 01:04:53,514 I was fine with anybody who was gay as far as I was concerned, 1125 01:04:53,598 --> 01:04:57,768 but I really wasn't prepared to have a gay child. 1126 01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,023 I was actually expecting Dad to be more upset about it, 1127 01:05:02,106 --> 01:05:05,902 just 'cause it's usually the dad that throws the gay son out of the house. 1128 01:05:06,819 --> 01:05:09,488 And he was... Yeah, he was really good about it. 1129 01:05:11,032 --> 01:05:13,910 When he told us, I was just simply surprised. 1130 01:05:14,368 --> 01:05:17,371 The only thing that I was even slightly upset about was 1131 01:05:17,455 --> 01:05:19,790 that he had kept it a secret, 1132 01:05:19,874 --> 01:05:22,793 because it would have made absolutely no difference to me. 1133 01:05:26,797 --> 01:05:28,799 His plane was the next morning, 1134 01:05:28,883 --> 01:05:31,677 so we didn't get a chance to talk much about it. 1135 01:05:33,054 --> 01:05:35,056 As we were driving to the airport, 1136 01:05:35,431 --> 01:05:37,767 he said, "You know... 1137 01:05:38,935 --> 01:05:40,853 men can take advantage of other men 1138 01:05:40,937 --> 01:05:43,439 just as much as men can take advantage of women." 1139 01:05:44,231 --> 01:05:47,193 Which I thought was actually quite astute. 1140 01:05:51,739 --> 01:05:54,951 Why do you think Mom had any issue whatsoever 1141 01:05:55,034 --> 01:05:57,244 when she was so deeply in this world? 1142 01:05:58,162 --> 01:06:04,585 Everything about the business was really in support of family, ironically. 1143 01:06:06,128 --> 01:06:08,965 The gay part of it fell on the business side 1144 01:06:09,048 --> 01:06:11,384 of that mental dividing line. 1145 01:06:14,261 --> 01:06:16,764 I never thought of my employees 1146 01:06:16,847 --> 01:06:20,768 in the same way that I thought about my son. 1147 01:06:22,812 --> 01:06:25,564 I was fine working with gay people, 1148 01:06:26,148 --> 01:06:31,487 but when it came to my own family and what I had absorbed in the religion, 1149 01:06:31,570 --> 01:06:33,322 I was not fine at all. 1150 01:06:35,116 --> 01:06:36,659 When it came to my own son, 1151 01:06:36,742 --> 01:06:42,623 I realized that I had some thoughts about gay people that needed to change. 1152 01:06:52,717 --> 01:06:55,886 Well, I don't know why he didn't come, the trash. 1153 01:06:55,970 --> 01:06:57,388 What day does he come? 1154 01:06:58,097 --> 01:07:00,975 - I think Thursdays, but I can check. - Well, that's today. 1155 01:07:11,819 --> 01:07:14,405 Why were you saying that you wanna close in June? 1156 01:07:14,989 --> 01:07:16,991 You know, if it's... Sales are bad. 1157 01:07:17,074 --> 01:07:19,160 We're trying to keep our staff. 1158 01:07:19,243 --> 01:07:22,038 It seems, because the business is so slow, 1159 01:07:22,121 --> 01:07:25,708 they're not even doing kind of minimal straightening. 1160 01:07:26,667 --> 01:07:27,667 So... 1161 01:07:29,253 --> 01:07:31,922 You know, everybody's kind of done here. 1162 01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:34,133 So, goodbye... 1163 01:07:34,925 --> 01:07:36,218 to this box. 1164 01:07:38,429 --> 01:07:42,349 You know, if I thought it was a viable business for anybody, 1165 01:07:42,433 --> 01:07:44,602 then I would put it up for sale, 1166 01:07:44,685 --> 01:07:47,688 but I don't think that anybody will be able to make it 1167 01:07:47,772 --> 01:07:49,273 more than what we make it. 1168 01:07:49,732 --> 01:07:53,319 But, you know, it may go another year, say, or something. 1169 01:07:53,402 --> 01:07:56,155 Or not. It's hard to know. 1170 01:07:57,323 --> 01:07:59,075 Which is why I wish your movie was done, 1171 01:07:59,158 --> 01:08:01,869 so I could see how it would end too. I would like that. 1172 01:08:04,455 --> 01:08:06,749 This is a statement about this business. 1173 01:08:09,794 --> 01:08:12,213 It kind of all ended up in the dumpster. 1174 01:08:19,470 --> 01:08:20,304 Here. 1175 01:08:20,387 --> 01:08:22,473 I just think it's kind of interesting. 1176 01:08:23,974 --> 01:08:25,684 That's, like, a sales, you know... 1177 01:08:26,393 --> 01:08:28,020 It tracks it. 1178 01:08:29,688 --> 01:08:32,066 Okay, so this is 2008, 1179 01:08:32,525 --> 01:08:36,904 which is, like, the recession and also the Internet, 1180 01:08:36,987 --> 01:08:39,907 and then you can just see it going down. 1181 01:08:42,034 --> 01:08:46,080 When people started selling on the Internet, we didn't. 1182 01:08:46,163 --> 01:08:48,791 We have a website, but it really doesn't sell anything. 1183 01:08:48,874 --> 01:08:52,002 Well, it just tells people what we have and they come into our stores. 1184 01:08:53,838 --> 01:08:57,925 I've wondered how they could survive with the Internet, 1185 01:08:58,008 --> 01:09:00,928 because porno was devastated. 1186 01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,473 You can't sell what people can get for free. 1187 01:09:05,224 --> 01:09:07,560 Pornography is pushing the limits online. 1188 01:09:07,935 --> 01:09:11,397 Sexually explicit material is increasingly available on the Internet. 1189 01:09:12,648 --> 01:09:16,485 The Internet totally devastated my business. 1190 01:09:16,569 --> 01:09:18,195 It robbed me of my income. 1191 01:09:19,363 --> 01:09:23,367 It also could be considered the death knell of the gay bar, 1192 01:09:23,450 --> 01:09:25,930 because you don't need to go to a bar anymore to meet somebody. 1193 01:09:25,995 --> 01:09:27,663 You can meet them online. 1194 01:09:27,746 --> 01:09:29,373 Grindr or SCRUFF. 1195 01:09:31,625 --> 01:09:34,587 In a lot of ways, the Internet has helped, 1196 01:09:34,670 --> 01:09:37,548 because we don't have to live, like, in the shadows 1197 01:09:37,631 --> 01:09:40,509 and so, like, oppressed and afraid anymore. 1198 01:09:40,593 --> 01:09:42,386 But I also think it's, you know... 1199 01:09:42,469 --> 01:09:45,014 I mean, it just sucks that the younger generation is... 1200 01:09:45,097 --> 01:09:48,392 It's so hard to just talk face-to-face with one another. 1201 01:09:49,935 --> 01:09:52,897 They weren't just places of commerce. 1202 01:09:52,980 --> 01:09:55,417 They were places of gathering where people could get together. 1203 01:09:55,441 --> 01:09:59,320 They were places where people could meet in all the best senses. 1204 01:10:00,029 --> 01:10:01,989 The material may be delivered, 1205 01:10:02,072 --> 01:10:05,409 but it's not going to be a substitute for human interaction, 1206 01:10:05,492 --> 01:10:07,132 and to the extent that's what's going on, 1207 01:10:07,203 --> 01:10:09,622 I think that's a tragic and irreplaceable loss. 1208 01:10:19,256 --> 01:10:22,051 I don't think they're gonna want any of these papers. 1209 01:10:23,302 --> 01:10:24,982 I don't know what I'm giving them anymore. 1210 01:10:25,054 --> 01:10:28,307 It's been such a long time since I put this stuff in here. 1211 01:10:30,768 --> 01:10:32,808 - I've heard his name, though. - Yeah. 1212 01:10:32,853 --> 01:10:35,439 So, those are some of his covers. 1213 01:10:35,522 --> 01:10:37,358 He was really a nice guy. 1214 01:10:37,942 --> 01:10:40,486 You know, I would like... If he's not in ONE Archive, 1215 01:10:40,569 --> 01:10:42,613 I think he would like to be in it, so... 1216 01:10:44,323 --> 01:10:45,908 I think you have to sign this. 1217 01:10:47,117 --> 01:10:49,203 - Oh, what? - It's a deed of gift. 1218 01:10:49,286 --> 01:10:51,431 Just basically saying that you're giving the materials. 1219 01:10:51,455 --> 01:10:52,665 - Right there. - Oh, okay. 1220 01:10:52,748 --> 01:10:57,127 And if you don't want it, just throw it away, 'cause, um... 1221 01:10:57,211 --> 01:10:59,814 You don't know who you're talking to. We never throw anything away. 1222 01:10:59,838 --> 01:11:02,198 But whatever it is that you have, we're happy to look at it. 1223 01:11:02,258 --> 01:11:04,426 I don't think we have anything you want there. 1224 01:11:04,510 --> 01:11:06,550 But as long as I'm here, I'd just like to look at... 1225 01:11:06,595 --> 01:11:09,807 I just think this is really where it all started. 1226 01:11:09,890 --> 01:11:13,602 So, where the erotica was, or where the pulp fiction was, 1227 01:11:13,686 --> 01:11:16,188 they would basically put it behind a big curtain. 1228 01:11:16,605 --> 01:11:19,775 So, there was the problem of being caught by the police, 1229 01:11:19,858 --> 01:11:22,361 or there was, alternatively, the problem that... 1230 01:11:22,444 --> 01:11:23,737 the good problem, perhaps, 1231 01:11:23,821 --> 01:11:26,633 that you could meet somebody else who was looking for the same material. 1232 01:11:26,657 --> 01:11:30,202 So, it was actually a really great thing to be able to go get them. 1233 01:11:30,286 --> 01:11:32,329 I remember going to Circus of Books, 1234 01:11:32,413 --> 01:11:35,791 and it was a place where you could go and find other people like yourself. 1235 01:11:35,874 --> 01:11:37,584 The store served its purpose, 1236 01:11:37,668 --> 01:11:40,212 and it's just not... 1237 01:11:42,172 --> 01:11:43,966 I'll be happy when it's closing. 1238 01:11:44,049 --> 01:11:46,135 Thank you for your donation. I really appreciate it. 1239 01:11:46,218 --> 01:11:48,846 Well, it's just some stuff. 1240 01:11:51,140 --> 01:11:55,394 This is important, I think. Much more than our store, this is... 1241 01:11:56,186 --> 01:12:00,649 I mean, the courage that it took to put these out month after month. 1242 01:12:00,733 --> 01:12:02,443 They had to go in secret. 1243 01:12:02,526 --> 01:12:06,780 But can you imagine some kid in Iowa or someplace 1244 01:12:06,864 --> 01:12:10,534 getting a copy of this and thinking, "God! I'm not the only one." 1245 01:12:11,452 --> 01:12:12,786 It's just amazing. 1246 01:12:14,371 --> 01:12:16,623 Should be doing the documentary about this. 1247 01:12:19,418 --> 01:12:20,919 When Josh came out, 1248 01:12:21,003 --> 01:12:24,089 the next morning, we took him to the airport, 1249 01:12:24,173 --> 01:12:27,343 and the rule was that when he got to his dorm, 1250 01:12:27,426 --> 01:12:29,928 he had to call and say he got to his dorm. 1251 01:12:30,012 --> 01:12:33,849 And so we waited and waited, and he didn't call, 1252 01:12:33,932 --> 01:12:36,101 and finally, I picked up the phone, and I said to him, 1253 01:12:36,185 --> 01:12:37,603 "You know, no matter what you are, 1254 01:12:37,686 --> 01:12:40,773 you still have to call your mother and say you got to your dorm." 1255 01:12:42,441 --> 01:12:46,695 It was much harder for me to then begin talking about it. 1256 01:12:48,864 --> 01:12:50,991 Karen did not, could not, 1257 01:12:51,533 --> 01:12:55,037 tell any of her friends for a year. 1258 01:12:57,664 --> 01:13:00,959 I was sitting there in the congregation 1259 01:13:01,043 --> 01:13:03,128 just trying to find 1260 01:13:03,212 --> 01:13:06,757 how I was gonna get through this struggle that I had with who he was, 1261 01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:08,258 my wonderful son. 1262 01:13:09,843 --> 01:13:14,390 The idea that he was homosexual was an abomination in our religion. 1263 01:13:16,100 --> 01:13:18,060 In a marriage like Daddy's and mine, 1264 01:13:18,143 --> 01:13:21,480 the non-religious spouse has much less trouble 1265 01:13:21,563 --> 01:13:23,774 accepting their homosexual child 1266 01:13:23,857 --> 01:13:25,943 than the religious spouse. 1267 01:13:29,154 --> 01:13:32,074 Why didn't you ever just drop religion? 1268 01:13:32,616 --> 01:13:35,369 You know, it's just not an option for me. 1269 01:13:36,745 --> 01:13:39,790 If your way of being in the world is to be religious, 1270 01:13:40,249 --> 01:13:42,543 accepting God is just easier. 1271 01:13:43,669 --> 01:13:47,089 But being religious is not easy. You have to work at that, too. 1272 01:13:51,385 --> 01:13:57,057 I needed to rethink my theology in order to be okay with it. 1273 01:13:59,143 --> 01:14:01,562 I took Bible study classes. 1274 01:14:01,645 --> 01:14:04,273 You know, what does the word "abomination" mean? 1275 01:14:04,356 --> 01:14:07,234 Why do they say that in relation to homosexuality? 1276 01:14:07,317 --> 01:14:10,404 And what were they really saying in the context of the time? 1277 01:14:12,823 --> 01:14:17,202 It was a long time of searching, and acceptance, and learning 1278 01:14:17,286 --> 01:14:23,292 that there was a really profound group of thinkers, and leaders, 1279 01:14:23,375 --> 01:14:26,003 and people who happened to be gay, 1280 01:14:26,086 --> 01:14:29,673 and were forming these wonderful, vibrant communities. 1281 01:14:31,091 --> 01:14:32,676 We got involved with PFLAG, 1282 01:14:32,759 --> 01:14:35,721 and she met other women that had similar experiences. 1283 01:14:36,889 --> 01:14:40,851 It's called Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, 1284 01:14:40,934 --> 01:14:43,687 and it's a support group for people 1285 01:14:43,770 --> 01:14:48,192 who need help understanding what gender issues are. 1286 01:14:49,443 --> 01:14:53,739 She really went through kind of a transformation after that. 1287 01:14:54,823 --> 01:14:59,620 I was not not gonna be his best mother that I could be. 1288 01:15:01,330 --> 01:15:05,167 Your children have their own path, and you can't direct it. 1289 01:15:06,418 --> 01:15:10,589 You can only take them the first few steps on their way. 1290 01:15:12,424 --> 01:15:15,886 But it sure took a lot of work to come around. 1291 01:15:16,929 --> 01:15:21,058 So we're gonna start with the Masons telling their story, 1292 01:15:21,141 --> 01:15:22,059 and you... 1293 01:15:22,142 --> 01:15:25,103 Would you like to go first, Karen, since Barry went first the other time? 1294 01:15:25,187 --> 01:15:28,398 I think let Barry go first. He has the better story. 1295 01:15:28,482 --> 01:15:31,318 - That'll compensate for you. - Well. 1296 01:15:32,027 --> 01:15:33,237 Okay, so... 1297 01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:37,324 About 15 years ago, 1298 01:15:37,407 --> 01:15:40,744 our son was coming back from college in New York. 1299 01:15:41,620 --> 01:15:44,039 Now, we're big shots in PFLAG, 1300 01:15:44,122 --> 01:15:46,792 and we just talk about it to them, 1301 01:15:46,875 --> 01:15:48,919 try and make them feel more comfortable with it. 1302 01:15:49,002 --> 01:15:52,464 And I didn't have a clue that he was gay, not a clue. 1303 01:15:54,633 --> 01:15:58,720 I'm a trained facilitator, so I can lead support groups. 1304 01:15:58,804 --> 01:16:02,349 I'm kind of the poster child, I think, 1305 01:16:02,432 --> 01:16:06,270 for somebody who had a really bad reaction to it. 1306 01:16:06,353 --> 01:16:10,566 And I'd like to take back everything I said to him the night he came out, 1307 01:16:10,649 --> 01:16:12,693 but it doesn't go away, 1308 01:16:12,776 --> 01:16:15,779 and unfortunately, I speak a lot, so I have to remember it. 1309 01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,867 Their involvement in PFLAG has been amazing. 1310 01:16:21,577 --> 01:16:22,953 I think at some point... 1311 01:16:24,037 --> 01:16:28,458 Mom said that it's the parents' role to fight for change, 1312 01:16:28,542 --> 01:16:30,335 and it's the kids' role 1313 01:16:30,419 --> 01:16:34,548 to have as normal a life as possible and just get on with things. 1314 01:16:38,677 --> 01:16:42,139 You just always think you know what's best, 1315 01:16:42,222 --> 01:16:43,390 and you're wrong. 1316 01:16:44,975 --> 01:16:46,602 Yeah, parents, uh... 1317 01:16:47,352 --> 01:16:50,314 are only smart for a very small window of time. 1318 01:16:51,648 --> 01:16:54,693 I'm happy with who I am because of them. 1319 01:16:55,527 --> 01:16:57,195 So, um... 1320 01:16:58,697 --> 01:16:59,697 Yeah. 1321 01:17:00,032 --> 01:17:02,200 I'm not very good at finishing my sentences. 1322 01:17:05,037 --> 01:17:10,667 I've spent the last 20 years helping other people understand and accept 1323 01:17:10,751 --> 01:17:16,632 the gender variations in their children, and there are a lot of gender variations. 1324 01:17:17,424 --> 01:17:18,592 And they're all okay, 1325 01:17:19,301 --> 01:17:21,261 and I hope you put that in this movie. 1326 01:17:32,105 --> 01:17:33,105 Mom! 1327 01:17:33,774 --> 01:17:36,401 Now I wanna find my, uh, husband 1328 01:17:36,485 --> 01:17:38,445 so that we get a group picture. 1329 01:17:38,528 --> 01:17:41,073 - Okay. Yeah. - You guys will be at the end. 1330 01:17:46,119 --> 01:17:49,122 We're taking a picture? You're here to take a picture? Good. 1331 01:17:52,334 --> 01:17:54,419 Dad, give me the camera. You should go in. 1332 01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:56,254 Okay, I'll get one. 1333 01:18:00,425 --> 01:18:02,145 Okay. 1334 01:18:03,762 --> 01:18:07,432 Well, you organized a really big picture. That was hard. 1335 01:18:08,558 --> 01:18:10,644 I know, and don't keep calling me, 1336 01:18:10,727 --> 01:18:12,729 'cause this is like my job at PFLAG to do this. 1337 01:18:12,813 --> 01:18:14,013 I'm not. That was it. 1338 01:18:14,064 --> 01:18:15,273 Hi again! 1339 01:18:17,401 --> 01:18:20,529 Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, PFLAG! 1340 01:18:22,948 --> 01:18:24,783 Forty years, ladies and gentlemen, 1341 01:18:24,866 --> 01:18:27,077 Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, 1342 01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:29,162 moms, dads, brothers, sisters, 1343 01:18:30,038 --> 01:18:31,957 proud parents. 1344 01:18:36,086 --> 01:18:37,337 If you watch the parade, 1345 01:18:37,421 --> 01:18:39,923 you'll see nobody gets this kind of cheering. 1346 01:18:40,006 --> 01:18:41,675 Just the PFLAG, 1347 01:18:41,758 --> 01:18:44,469 and it's for the parents who came before us, 1348 01:18:44,553 --> 01:18:48,181 the people who were there when there was nobody standing up 1349 01:18:48,265 --> 01:18:50,183 for the people who came out as gay. 1350 01:18:52,894 --> 01:18:55,021 I wish my parents were here. 1351 01:18:58,942 --> 01:19:01,778 - Dad, look, there's your store. - I know! 1352 01:19:03,113 --> 01:19:04,489 Whoo, Barry! 1353 01:19:15,709 --> 01:19:21,089 No one has ever given us anything we haven't had to fight for. 1354 01:19:25,719 --> 01:19:29,431 I have seen so many changes in this world. 1355 01:19:31,516 --> 01:19:33,059 For the better and for the worse. 1356 01:19:36,354 --> 01:19:38,899 But I have hope, and there is hope. 1357 01:19:39,441 --> 01:19:42,652 I'm not gonna end this on a sour note. 1358 01:19:43,195 --> 01:19:44,446 This is a good note, 1359 01:19:44,529 --> 01:19:48,575 because people are more together today than they ever have been. 1360 01:20:09,012 --> 01:20:10,806 It's our last hour, so shop quick. 1361 01:20:10,889 --> 01:20:12,557 - Last hour? - Yep. 1362 01:20:12,641 --> 01:20:15,185 We're gonna put up the closed sign pretty soon. 1363 01:20:16,394 --> 01:20:18,563 You can be the last customer maybe. 1364 01:20:19,064 --> 01:20:20,064 Okay. 1365 01:20:21,066 --> 01:20:24,361 Owner of the last item sold by Circus of Books. 1366 01:20:24,444 --> 01:20:25,444 Yeah. 1367 01:20:25,946 --> 01:20:28,323 Well, I always like to be anonymous, but... 1368 01:20:28,406 --> 01:20:31,117 Well, you could sign it "anonymous" if you really wanna be a purist. 1369 01:20:31,201 --> 01:20:33,870 No, at this point, I'm pretty public about it. 1370 01:20:33,954 --> 01:20:34,788 All right! 1371 01:20:34,871 --> 01:20:36,164 Okay. 1372 01:20:39,626 --> 01:20:43,672 Barry and Karen have always been like Mom and Dad almost. 1373 01:20:43,755 --> 01:20:46,341 You know, we've always had... 1374 01:20:46,424 --> 01:20:49,344 - Our surrogate. Like family here. - Yeah. 1375 01:20:49,803 --> 01:20:51,555 - Goodbye, Karen. - Bud, you're great. 1376 01:20:51,638 --> 01:20:53,765 Thank you. I'll miss you. 1377 01:20:53,849 --> 01:20:56,852 Well, you're gonna go on to do good things. I know you are. 1378 01:20:56,935 --> 01:20:58,975 - It was great working with you. - Thank you, Barry. 1379 01:20:59,020 --> 01:21:01,314 - And I hope everything goes well. - Thank you. 1380 01:21:02,524 --> 01:21:04,442 - I need to give you a hug. - Oh, Karen! 1381 01:21:04,985 --> 01:21:07,362 - Thank you so much for everything. - You've been wonderful. 1382 01:21:19,791 --> 01:21:21,511 It's not an easy trick to be married 1383 01:21:21,543 --> 01:21:24,379 and be in business together for such a long time. 1384 01:21:24,462 --> 01:21:27,716 - Very hard, actually. - Yeah, he had to listen to me a lot. 1385 01:21:32,679 --> 01:21:37,976 ♪ Who's in the circus? ♪ 1386 01:21:38,059 --> 01:21:43,315 ♪ Who's on the trapeze? ♪ 1387 01:21:43,398 --> 01:21:48,528 ♪ Who's in the circus with me? ♪ 1388 01:21:48,612 --> 01:21:54,200 ♪ Who's on the trapeze? ♪ 1389 01:22:12,761 --> 01:22:16,723 ♪ Wait on the corner Till I give you a sign ♪ 1390 01:22:16,806 --> 01:22:19,351 ♪ Can you see my red bandanna? ♪ 1391 01:22:19,434 --> 01:22:21,561 ♪ It's set to the right ♪ 1392 01:22:21,645 --> 01:22:27,651 ♪ We'll get along for the ride ♪ 1393 01:22:41,748 --> 01:22:44,918 ♪ This is where the sunlight ♪ 1394 01:22:45,001 --> 01:22:46,795 ♪ Lives on the ground ♪ 1395 01:22:46,878 --> 01:22:49,381 ♪ It's where lovers meet ♪ 1396 01:22:49,464 --> 01:22:51,758 ♪ When they need to be found ♪ 1397 01:22:51,841 --> 01:22:57,263 ♪ It's where you gave me the look That took me out ♪ 1398 01:22:57,347 --> 01:23:02,018 ♪ And away and over ♪ 1399 01:23:02,102 --> 01:23:05,647 ♪ And away ♪ 1400 01:23:05,730 --> 01:23:08,566 ♪ Let me celebrate ♪ 1401 01:23:08,650 --> 01:23:10,860 ♪ What you don't understand ♪ 1402 01:23:10,944 --> 01:23:13,738 ♪ It's where I get the strength ♪ 1403 01:23:13,822 --> 01:23:15,740 ♪ To be who I am ♪ 1404 01:23:15,824 --> 01:23:18,576 ♪ And if you give me a look ♪ 1405 01:23:18,702 --> 01:23:25,583 ♪ I promise I'll always Give you everything that I have ♪ 1406 01:23:25,667 --> 01:23:31,172 ♪ Always give you everything that I have ♪ 1407 01:23:39,305 --> 01:23:43,810 ♪ Cruisin' the alley With a broken taillight ♪ 1408 01:23:43,893 --> 01:23:48,106 ♪ Lose a few dollars But get a good price ♪ 1409 01:23:48,189 --> 01:23:52,777 ♪ You'll be a friend for the night ♪ 1410 01:23:57,490 --> 01:24:03,747 ♪ I'll be a friend for the night ♪ 1411 01:24:17,719 --> 01:24:20,889 ♪ This is where the sunlight ♪ 1412 01:24:20,972 --> 01:24:22,849 ♪ Lives in the sand ♪ 1413 01:24:22,932 --> 01:24:25,185 ♪ It's where I want to be ♪ 1414 01:24:25,268 --> 01:24:27,562 ♪ Whenever I need a hand ♪ 1415 01:24:27,645 --> 01:24:33,193 ♪ It's where you gave me the look That took me out ♪ 1416 01:24:33,276 --> 01:24:37,947 ♪ And away and over ♪ 1417 01:24:38,031 --> 01:24:41,659 ♪ And away ♪ 1418 01:24:41,743 --> 01:24:44,454 ♪ Let me celebrate ♪ 1419 01:24:44,537 --> 01:24:46,956 ♪ What you don't understand ♪ 1420 01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:49,709 ♪ It's where I get the strength ♪ 1421 01:24:49,793 --> 01:24:51,628 ♪ To be who I am ♪ 1422 01:24:51,711 --> 01:24:54,380 ♪ And if you give me a look ♪ 1423 01:24:54,464 --> 01:25:00,553 ♪ I promise I'll always Give you everything ♪ 1424 01:25:00,637 --> 01:25:05,642 ♪ Always give you everything ♪ 1425 01:25:05,725 --> 01:25:12,398 ♪ Always give you everything That I have ♪ 1426 01:25:14,025 --> 01:25:17,570 ♪ That I have ♪ 1427 01:25:17,654 --> 01:25:20,532 ♪ Let me celebrate ♪ 1428 01:25:20,615 --> 01:25:22,826 ♪ What you don't understand ♪ 1429 01:25:22,909 --> 01:25:25,703 ♪ It's where I get the strength ♪ 1430 01:25:25,787 --> 01:25:27,664 ♪ To be who I am ♪ 1431 01:25:27,747 --> 01:25:30,333 ♪ And if you give me a look ♪ 1432 01:25:30,416 --> 01:25:37,090 ♪ I promise I'll always Give you everything that I have ♪ 1433 01:25:37,173 --> 01:25:43,930 ♪ Always give you everything that I have ♪ 117649

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