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1
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,557
What do you think of gay Nazis?
-I don't understand Nazis,
2
00:00:26,783 --> 00:00:28,107
especially gay Nazis.
3
00:00:28,849 --> 00:00:34,117
I have a bald head,
but it's not a political statement.
4
00:00:35,743 --> 00:00:39,292
A Nazi is Nazi
and therefore disgusting.
5
00:00:40,219 --> 00:00:43,919
Boots turn me on,
white shoestrings, color contrast...
6
00:00:44,111 --> 00:00:48,251
I find black and white extremely hot.
7
00:00:48,433 --> 00:00:52,088
But when they have that mentality,
I can't really get into them.
8
00:00:53,378 --> 00:00:58,968
If they'd lived in the time they admire
so much, they'd have been exterminated.
9
00:00:59,579 --> 00:01:01,489
Now, that's totally perverse!
10
00:01:01,997 --> 00:01:09,276
In the name of the organizing committee,
I welcome you to this manifestation
11
00:01:09,594 --> 00:01:13,224
of the NPD [German National Democratic
Party] and the Free Nationalistic Resistance.
12
00:01:14,748 --> 00:01:21,604
(Men, Heroes and Gay Nazis)
13
00:01:40,230 --> 00:01:43,598
I'm Andr�. At the moment
I'm living in Berlin.
14
00:01:43,899 --> 00:01:48,148
Originally I'm from Leipzig
and have lived in Dresden and Potsdam.
15
00:01:48,713 --> 00:01:55,773
I'm a classic "Oi" skinhead with roots
in the traditional skinhead scene.
16
00:01:56,306 --> 00:02:00,094
I define it as a culture.
17
00:02:00,270 --> 00:02:03,649
It's a culture of masculinity
that has to do with honor.
18
00:02:04,051 --> 00:02:10,139
To me, the potential for violence means
having the courage to defend myself.
19
00:02:10,463 --> 00:02:16,155
When I land in a situation where
I have to defend myself or someone else,
20
00:02:16,284 --> 00:02:18,587
the warrior in me comes through.
21
00:02:28,356 --> 00:02:33,319
If someone in the gay scene asks,
I say I'm right-wing.
22
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,000
If someone in the right-wing scene asks,
I say that I'm gay.
23
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,318
But very many stay hidden.
24
00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:43,319
Even in the NPD [ultra right-wing
German National Democratic Party]
25
00:02:45,879 --> 00:02:48,879
I know several who are gay or bisexual,
some in steady relationships.
26
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,360
I call them the gay sediment
of the movement, and there are many.
27
00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,758
There are people...
28
00:02:59,759 --> 00:03:02,759
Regarding the NPD, I know of a guy
29
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,280
who had to beat off when he saw
somebody else's NPD membership card.
30
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,280
Someone like that
might be moved to join the party
31
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,240
due to his fetish,
not out of political conviction.
32
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:47,048
I was quite well-known in Germany
because of my political escapades.
33
00:03:47,641 --> 00:03:50,852
Now I work in advertising
and direct marketing.
34
00:03:52,097 --> 00:03:54,773
May I leave some flyers here
for the closing party tonight?
35
00:03:57,393 --> 00:03:59,490
Basically, it's a gay party,
36
00:03:59,743 --> 00:04:04,506
but whoever fits the dress code, S/M etc. ...
Exceptional people will get in.
37
00:04:06,612 --> 00:04:11,438
Was Hitler perfect?
-Compared to whatever human being
38
00:04:11,530 --> 00:04:14,078
existed in the world,
he was the most perfect person.
39
00:04:15,003 --> 00:04:20,619
I didn't wake up one day, let's say
Jan. 3, 1984, and say, "Now I'm homosexual."
40
00:04:20,963 --> 00:04:26,116
Rather, emotions developed in me,
sexual feelings and desires arose
41
00:04:26,555 --> 00:04:33,313
which completely contradicted
my political position.
42
00:04:33,443 --> 00:04:39,395
According to that political position,
to put it bluntly,
43
00:04:39,619 --> 00:04:43,179
gays, Jews, gypsies etc.
were all lumped together,
44
00:04:43,507 --> 00:04:45,211
and they were all bad.
45
00:04:45,376 --> 00:04:48,684
It took time for me to realize who I am.
46
00:04:48,811 --> 00:04:52,804
You were always playing
hide-and-seek.
47
00:04:52,891 --> 00:04:55,923
In the press you were treated
as one of the most important neo-Nazis,
48
00:04:56,027 --> 00:04:59,643
and you seemed to enjoy it.
49
00:04:59,827 --> 00:05:02,875
At the time, I liked playing with the media.
50
00:05:03,091 --> 00:05:07,396
It was fun and exciting
to be a sort of mini-star.
51
00:05:07,667 --> 00:05:11,140
I underestimated
the power of images
52
00:05:11,404 --> 00:05:17,523
and greatly overestimated my ability
to deal with the media.
53
00:05:24,306 --> 00:05:29,015
I'm Alexander Schlesinger. I live in Berlin,
formerly in Dresden and Cologne.
54
00:05:29,239 --> 00:05:35,831
I was born and raised in East Germany.
Now I'm looking for work here in Berlin.
55
00:05:36,039 --> 00:05:41,576
A gay guy was telling me
about the gay-bashing hotline.
56
00:05:41,871 --> 00:05:45,663
The boys and girls working there
have big ethical problems
57
00:05:45,871 --> 00:05:50,191
because it's young Turks and Moroccans
and such who are beating up gays.
58
00:05:50,975 --> 00:05:56,559
Strangely, so-called right-wing
skinheads seldom attack gays.
59
00:05:56,719 --> 00:05:59,972
Of course, anything can happen
with the lunatic fringe,
60
00:06:00,113 --> 00:06:06,655
but generally these liberal gays have to deal
with facts that don't fit their world view.
61
00:06:06,986 --> 00:06:08,129
That's the reality.
62
00:06:08,568 --> 00:06:10,657
Sit, damn it!
63
00:06:12,537 --> 00:06:16,633
I think many gays
are for laxer immigration laws
64
00:06:16,991 --> 00:06:19,829
so they don't have to travel
to fuck foreigners.
65
00:06:20,138 --> 00:06:25,058
That's a bit vulgar,
but it's best to tell it like it is.
66
00:06:34,780 --> 00:06:36,941
A rather Christian question:
67
00:06:37,156 --> 00:06:41,493
Do you regret what you did?
After all, it put you in prison.
68
00:06:41,624 --> 00:06:43,836
No, I don't regret anything
69
00:06:44,048 --> 00:06:49,212
because to this day, I think the way
I was treated in Germany was very wrong.
70
00:06:49,408 --> 00:06:54,065
That's the main reason why
I was politically active for so long.
71
00:06:54,218 --> 00:07:01,257
I said, there are people saying
that holocaust doesn't exist
72
00:07:01,472 --> 00:07:06,540
and I want to have the right to
freedom of speech to discuss this open.
73
00:07:06,674 --> 00:07:12,130
In my opinion, wearing the swastika
shouldn't be forbidden in Germany.
74
00:07:12,236 --> 00:07:14,508
Let the crazies run around
with their swastikas.
75
00:07:14,636 --> 00:07:20,324
The ban gives value to the symbol
and makes it what it was for us:
76
00:07:20,807 --> 00:07:24,322
something forbidden,
seductive and powerful.
77
00:07:24,596 --> 00:07:30,644
I'm cheeky enough to say
this is a very democratic opinion.
78
00:07:30,772 --> 00:07:36,571
I still think that Rudolf Hess should have
been freed, that he was murdered in prison.
79
00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:38,284
Those views haven't changed.
80
00:07:39,215 --> 00:07:43,594
(Memorial March for Rudolf Hess,
Wunsiedel 1990)
81
00:07:52,248 --> 00:07:55,350
("France pays tribute
in honor of Rudolf Hess")
82
00:07:55,469 --> 00:07:58,030
I saw that Hess had become
a martyr for the neo-Nazi scene.
83
00:07:58,429 --> 00:08:06,061
The facts are, he was in prison too long,
and he has a place a history.
84
00:08:06,277 --> 00:08:11,934
If it hadn't become so radical, people of all
views could have supported his rehabilitation.
85
00:08:13,712 --> 00:08:15,192
(Rudolf Hess,
Reichsminister and Hitler's deputy)
86
00:08:15,464 --> 00:08:18,156
As loyal as the old Storm Trooper
is to the F�hrer,
87
00:08:18,344 --> 00:08:24,213
that is how loyal the F�hrer is
to his old Storm Troopers.
88
00:08:24,474 --> 00:08:26,272
(Prof. Dr. Bernd Ulrich Hergem�ller,
historian, University of Hamburg)
89
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,064
Hess's youth is very well documented:
his relationships to friends,
90
00:08:30,184 --> 00:08:36,016
the love letters, the poems...
-To men? -Yes.
91
00:08:36,188 --> 00:08:38,036
(Prof. Dr. Lothar Machtan
historian, University of Bremen)
92
00:08:38,373 --> 00:08:43,897
It's known that other Nazis had nicknames for Hess:
93
00:08:44,096 --> 00:08:47,650
"Miss Hess" or "Black Emma".
94
00:08:47,781 --> 00:08:50,059
(J�rgen Rieger, attorney,
chairman of "nationalist race club")
95
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,276
There were rumors, but I doubt
Hess was a practicing homosexual.
96
00:08:53,506 --> 00:08:59,714
He was uninterested in women,
and he only married because
97
00:08:59,859 --> 00:09:01,386
Hitler was the matchmaker.
98
00:09:01,856 --> 00:09:06,810
The Secretary for Economic Affairs
Funk was also homosexual...
99
00:09:06,914 --> 00:09:10,294
In his case,
he was observed
100
00:09:10,394 --> 00:09:12,586
chasing after such types
as young male musicians.
101
00:09:12,808 --> 00:09:17,296
Axmann, the last Reich Youth Leader,
was also homosexual.
102
00:09:17,438 --> 00:09:22,073
A leader of the Nazi
League of German Girls told me that.
103
00:09:29,947 --> 00:09:35,495
I belong to one of the right-wing parties,
never mind which one.
104
00:09:37,152 --> 00:09:40,934
My party boss knows me,
and he knows I'm gay.
105
00:09:41,115 --> 00:09:45,944
He told me, "You know,
what our members do in bed
106
00:09:46,115 --> 00:09:48,520
"or behind closed doors
doesn't interest us.
107
00:09:49,128 --> 00:09:54,584
"Our interest is that they stand up
for our platform and work with us
108
00:09:54,770 --> 00:10:00,704
"to represent our political values
and our social views to the people,
109
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,264
"who maybe then will vote for us."
110
00:10:07,952 --> 00:10:13,657
My name is a J�rg Fischer, I'm a freelance
journalist and an educational consultant,
111
00:10:13,857 --> 00:10:20,504
and I'm politically active. I'm a member of
Anti-Fascist Union for Victims of the Nazi Regime.
112
00:10:20,650 --> 00:10:25,074
Part of my r�sum� is that
I was in the neo-Nazi scene for 9 years,
113
00:10:25,547 --> 00:10:32,877
from 1982 until '91 ,
between the ages of 13 and 22.
114
00:10:33,285 --> 00:10:35,685
I became a functionary of the NPD,
115
00:10:35,829 --> 00:10:40,109
and I was a founding member of the
German Folk Union as a political party.
116
00:10:42,430 --> 00:10:46,367
For years this building housed
the NPD headquarters in Nuremberg
117
00:10:46,618 --> 00:10:51,530
and their youth schooling center,
all with the landlord's blessing.
118
00:10:51,777 --> 00:10:56,177
At the same time, there has always been
a gay sauna in the building.
119
00:10:56,505 --> 00:11:01,311
Of course, that provoked the NPD
and led to altercations.
120
00:11:01,516 --> 00:11:07,585
Time and again, sauna customers
were verbally attacked.
121
00:11:07,777 --> 00:11:12,249
I came out as gay
in the old East Germany.
122
00:11:12,393 --> 00:11:16,769
I knew already at 13
that I tended in that direction.
123
00:11:16,977 --> 00:11:23,782
Later, between 14 and 16, I gradually
came out to the people I felt close to.
124
00:11:23,961 --> 00:11:28,057
Most of them were coincidentally Nazis,
you could say.
125
00:11:28,260 --> 00:11:33,265
There I saw that if people accept you,
they'll overlook your being gay.
126
00:11:33,445 --> 00:11:39,385
The fight against gays isn't so much
a fight against men who sleep with men;
127
00:11:39,537 --> 00:11:42,808
it's against a lack of masculinity,
against weakness.
128
00:11:42,928 --> 00:11:49,617
I've had diabetes since I was four. That
led to my getting into the neo-Nazi scene.
129
00:11:49,769 --> 00:11:56,858
In 1982, when I was 13,
I was living in Nuremberg with my mother.
130
00:11:57,113 --> 00:12:03,741
I went to a government office to apply
for the status of a disabled person.
131
00:12:03,929 --> 00:12:09,905
The man who handled my application
was also deputy director of the local NPD.
132
00:12:10,113 --> 00:12:16,755
Before I left, he gave me literature
about the party and its youth organization.
133
00:12:17,339 --> 00:12:19,101
German women...
134
00:12:19,308 --> 00:12:21,669
German faithfulness...
135
00:12:21,837 --> 00:12:26,130
German wine and German song...
136
00:12:26,292 --> 00:12:28,788
As a skinhead,
I'm more into the hetero movement.
137
00:12:28,956 --> 00:12:34,613
The gay scene doesn't interest me much
because it's mostly fetishism.
138
00:12:34,737 --> 00:12:38,285
The people look tasty,
but there's nothing behind it.
139
00:12:38,453 --> 00:12:39,820
That gives me nothing.
140
00:12:40,142 --> 00:12:45,933
But isn't the hetero skinhead scene
very right-wing and violent?
141
00:12:46,133 --> 00:12:50,654
Well, hetero skinheads are
a little rougher and wilder.
142
00:13:00,621 --> 00:13:03,149
When things really start jumping
at an Oi concert,
143
00:13:03,397 --> 00:13:09,409
it's something you won't experience
in the gay scene.
144
00:13:10,617 --> 00:13:14,397
Don't you get emotionally confused
and fall in love with hetero skinheads?
145
00:13:15,548 --> 00:13:19,357
I've never fallen in love
with a hetero skinhead.
146
00:13:19,770 --> 00:13:25,669
There's a subconscious barrier that
prevents the unthinkable, and that's okay.
147
00:13:26,331 --> 00:13:31,249
I also don't try to seduce heterosexuals,
although the way they are
148
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:38,221
usually fits my ideal of what a man should be
more nearly than the boys in the gay scene.
149
00:13:43,214 --> 00:13:48,817
This isn't correct. This is a common
soldier's uniform with a major's epaulets.
150
00:13:49,458 --> 00:13:52,218
I was an officer
in the former East German army.
151
00:13:52,497 --> 00:14:01,341
Our political upbringing in East Germany
was very focused on national identity.
152
00:14:01,551 --> 00:14:05,284
We were taught always to revere
our socialist German homeland.
153
00:14:05,726 --> 00:14:08,494
I think that was good.
154
00:14:08,771 --> 00:14:15,585
After reunification I joined - don't laugh -
the revised East German socialist party.
155
00:14:15,790 --> 00:14:19,517
It's policies definitely appealed to me:
social justice...
156
00:14:19,857 --> 00:14:22,472
You should sit, damn it!
157
00:14:23,781 --> 00:14:27,006
But then they started
their multicultural babble:
158
00:14:27,182 --> 00:14:31,429
"Germany is the world's welfare office,
and everyone is welcome."
159
00:14:31,951 --> 00:14:36,295
When I saw where it was going,
I left the party.
160
00:14:41,084 --> 00:14:45,496
I had a very sheltered childhood, and
when I entered the right-wing scene at 13,
161
00:14:45,653 --> 00:14:52,636
it was the first time I made contacts
outside of school and went out at night.
162
00:14:52,893 --> 00:14:57,398
I didn't have the feeling
I was an outsider sitting on the sidelines.
163
00:14:57,613 --> 00:15:03,946
They attached great importance
to making us feel welcome and involved.
164
00:15:13,710 --> 00:15:22,066
We gay men are drawn toward
a masculine ideal. I'm an intolerant gay.
165
00:15:22,285 --> 00:15:25,660
I can't deal with screaming queens.
166
00:15:25,948 --> 00:15:30,170
Impossible! I didn't become gay
to get turned on by feminine creatures.
167
00:15:30,434 --> 00:15:34,333
I'm gay because I like men,
and a man is something else.
168
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:40,119
Not screeching off to CSD
in plush and high heels. Oh my God, no!
169
00:15:56,499 --> 00:16:00,856
Ever since homosexuals exist,
we've been aware of a schism.
170
00:16:01,158 --> 00:16:07,647
After all, a real man has to desire women.
That's the view of our society and culture.
171
00:16:07,895 --> 00:16:13,103
We have to cope with that.
One solution is hyper-masculinity.
172
00:16:13,315 --> 00:16:15,690
(Prof. Dr. Dr. R�diger Lautmann,
sociologist, University of Bremen)
173
00:16:15,812 --> 00:16:21,487
Right-wing types will certainly prefer
this athletic solution.
174
00:16:21,594 --> 00:16:26,816
Certainly, it's logical that in a group
that is between 80% and 90% men
175
00:16:26,937 --> 00:16:33,062
and women are subordinate,
masculinity is very important.
176
00:16:33,203 --> 00:16:39,366
Due to my disability, I had the drawback
that I'm not the type of guy
177
00:16:39,589 --> 00:16:44,120
who runs through the jungle and swings
on vines from tree to tree while howling,
178
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,319
nor am I a street fighter.
179
00:16:48,472 --> 00:16:55,787
I compensated from the beginning
by concentrating on political theory.
180
00:17:04,204 --> 00:17:07,048
Good morning, gentlemen.
-Good morning, First Lieutenant, sir!
181
00:17:07,404 --> 00:17:12,484
When you joined the army, was there a
subconscious gay desire to be among men?
182
00:17:12,786 --> 00:17:18,866
In principle, I won't say yes and I won't
say no. Does that answer the question?
183
00:17:19,052 --> 00:17:22,132
It's not a field shirt,
it's called a blouse.
184
00:17:22,383 --> 00:17:25,169
Believe what I tell you.
185
00:17:28,283 --> 00:17:30,958
May I touch you?
-Yes. Thank you.
186
00:17:31,368 --> 00:17:35,919
There are gay organizations like
Green Berets International
187
00:17:36,106 --> 00:17:43,278
who meet in the woods and do military drills
and enjoy themselves immensely.
188
00:17:43,538 --> 00:17:45,222
"Line up" means behind each other, boys.
189
00:17:46,645 --> 00:17:53,173
The group leader reports, saying my rank,
his rank and how many men in the column.
190
00:17:57,595 --> 00:18:03,247
Lieutenant Filly, Lance Corporal Trauner
is present with 5 men at Position One.
191
00:18:03,493 --> 00:18:05,295
Thank you. At ease.
192
00:18:06,910 --> 00:18:11,951
We have the simple assignment
of answering a question:
193
00:18:12,059 --> 00:18:14,182
Who can pee the farthest?
194
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:19,062
You can decide which men
have the fullest bladders.
195
00:18:19,366 --> 00:18:25,008
They may then urinate,
and we will measure the distance. -Good.
196
00:18:25,419 --> 00:18:32,359
Green Berets International is the first
registered association of gay men in uniform.
197
00:18:32,594 --> 00:18:38,692
In January of 1997 six comrades
got together and said, "Let's do it!"
198
00:18:38,895 --> 00:18:43,504
They officially registered the association
as a company to secure its legal status.
199
00:18:43,936 --> 00:18:53,257
Membership has grown tremendously,
partly due to media coverage.
200
00:18:53,396 --> 00:19:00,582
Usually in coverage of gay events
like Christopher Street Day,
201
00:19:00,855 --> 00:19:07,438
one side of the gay scene predominates:
namely, the feminine,
202
00:19:07,681 --> 00:19:09,619
the men in women's clothes.
203
00:19:09,875 --> 00:19:13,765
By order of the First Lieutenant:
204
00:19:13,944 --> 00:19:16,590
Dismissed!
205
00:19:16,813 --> 00:19:20,382
We're on the other side.
We like to go our way in uniform.
206
00:19:20,614 --> 00:19:25,911
We meet on weekends and do our thing.
207
00:19:26,067 --> 00:19:31,342
One rule is that we dissociate ourselves
from the radical right.
208
00:19:32,969 --> 00:19:40,686
We don't want to copy the German army.
Then you might as well join their reserves.
209
00:19:40,938 --> 00:19:46,150
We just want to live out our uniform fetish
in combination with sex.
210
00:19:52,226 --> 00:19:56,610
We register each maneuver
with the police
211
00:19:56,901 --> 00:20:00,998
in order to avoid accusations
that we're doing something illegal.
212
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:06,258
Here we are at the sperm slide.
Have fun sliding!
213
00:20:07,785 --> 00:20:11,918
Our association dissociates itself clearly
from the radical right.
214
00:20:12,138 --> 00:20:19,632
Also, our members have to sign
an agreement: no weapons.
215
00:20:20,343 --> 00:20:27,118
The guys aren't allowed to bring along
even toy guns or paintball guns.
216
00:20:29,759 --> 00:20:33,818
Being gay doesn't make
a person a better human being.
217
00:20:34,136 --> 00:20:37,169
A gay person can be a racist.
218
00:20:37,562 --> 00:20:41,114
A gay person can be anti-Semitic.
219
00:20:41,276 --> 00:20:44,528
What led to the reprisals
against the Jews?
220
00:20:44,655 --> 00:20:51,736
It's known that international Jewish organizations
agitated against the Third Reich,
221
00:20:52,076 --> 00:20:55,007
steered from America.
Newspapers exist as proof.
222
00:20:55,397 --> 00:21:02,128
That's played down because Jewish influence
on the world powers is huge, unfortunately.
223
00:21:02,456 --> 00:21:05,787
It just happens once in a while
224
00:21:05,933 --> 00:21:11,872
that funny, macabre jokes get told
about some Jew or rabbi or child fucker
225
00:21:12,023 --> 00:21:17,120
or whatever, and you laugh along
because you're with friends having fun.
226
00:21:17,347 --> 00:21:21,544
You don't really notice
how stupid or grotesque that is.
227
00:21:21,682 --> 00:21:23,514
Is that true?
228
00:21:23,629 --> 00:21:27,743
You knew Gottfried K�ssel,
the song writer...
229
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:36,523
Basically, Gottfried K�ssel was a very
peaceful, harmless, artistic, quiet person.
230
00:21:36,711 --> 00:21:41,664
In the film "The Truth Will Set You Free"
he sings about making Jews bleed. Harmless?
231
00:21:41,829 --> 00:21:44,824
Do you recognize his nose?
232
00:21:44,932 --> 00:21:47,428
His nose is hard to place.
233
00:21:47,713 --> 00:21:50,490
If it's crooked and ugly,
234
00:21:50,763 --> 00:21:52,859
Then punch him in the face.
235
00:21:53,247 --> 00:22:07,093
He's not human, he's a Jew
Don't stop to think, just stomp him out
236
00:22:10,396 --> 00:22:15,558
I'm not someone who reads the book
of morality before laughing at a joke.
237
00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:19,016
Don't stop to think,
just "BANG"
238
00:22:19,222 --> 00:22:25,661
He's not human, he's an ape
Don't stop to think, don't stop to think
239
00:22:25,955 --> 00:22:27,489
Just "BANG"
240
00:22:28,769 --> 00:22:30,783
No comment.
241
00:22:32,228 --> 00:22:34,739
You could show a bit of tact.
242
00:22:35,789 --> 00:22:38,792
(Funeral of Michael K�hnen, 1991)
243
00:22:38,985 --> 00:22:43,789
The last 70 supporters follow Austria's
party boss to the F�hrer's final roll call.
244
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:46,416
("His life was a struggle. His life is ended.
His strugle is not. Honour our dead...")
245
00:22:46,647 --> 00:22:51,250
With Michael K�hnen,
a German hero has gone to eternity.
246
00:22:51,806 --> 00:22:58,361
Herr K�hnen told me he had HIV, and now,
unfortunately, he has succumbed to it.
247
00:22:58,573 --> 00:23:04,458
He assured me personally that he
was neither a homo, nor did he have AIDS.
248
00:23:04,709 --> 00:23:09,284
I had no way to verify that.
I had to take his word for it.
249
00:23:09,567 --> 00:23:11,384
Was Herr K�hnen homosexual?
250
00:23:11,568 --> 00:23:17,985
I've heard rumors, but I'm not aware
of anything that proves the allegation.
251
00:23:21,220 --> 00:23:28,071
Here's a copy of the K�hnen
commemorative postage stamp. -Incredible.
252
00:23:31,368 --> 00:23:34,975
Tell us about your profession.
253
00:23:35,129 --> 00:23:40,734
I'm a television journalist.
I've been a journalist for about 16 years.
254
00:23:41,848 --> 00:23:47,750
My work focuses on political extremism,
sects, organized crime...
255
00:23:47,982 --> 00:23:54,653
K�hnen was a very captivating
as well as a very dangerous figure.
256
00:23:54,812 --> 00:24:00,076
Most of us think of Nazis as representing
a murderous terror regime
257
00:24:00,165 --> 00:24:03,405
that killed with unmatched cruelty.
258
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:09,123
Feeling that, you approach Michael K�hnen
thinking you'll meet a monster:
259
00:24:09,518 --> 00:24:12,466
brutal, threatening, etc.
260
00:24:12,832 --> 00:24:17,173
Then you meet a polite man
who shakes your hand
261
00:24:17,378 --> 00:24:20,459
and sits down cultivatedly at the table
with his political opponent,
262
00:24:20,624 --> 00:24:21,973
and you're perplexed.
263
00:24:22,112 --> 00:24:24,432
When did you meet K�hnen?
-1984.
264
00:24:24,706 --> 00:24:31,191
We'd invited him. He stood there
and made a speech which had three points:
265
00:24:31,337 --> 00:24:38,254
Why am I a nationalist? Why am I a socialist?
Why must we take power in Germany?
266
00:24:38,387 --> 00:24:42,492
He fit those points together
with such impressive brilliance
267
00:24:42,797 --> 00:24:46,766
that I, with my 18 years,
was flabbergasted.
268
00:24:46,927 --> 00:24:51,022
I went to him and said,
"You're the man. You're my man.
269
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:55,313
"I'm all wound up.
What can I do to be part of it?"
270
00:24:55,517 --> 00:24:56,608
("Panorama", 1978)
271
00:24:56,861 --> 00:25:03,815
After decades of re-education and
changing waves of reporting in the media
272
00:25:04,112 --> 00:25:07,047
about Hitler: first, as the "carpet biter",
273
00:25:07,156 --> 00:25:13,829
then the effort to find a perspective closer
to historical truth during the Hitler wave;
274
00:25:14,048 --> 00:25:21,934
the time seems right for us to go public
with our picture of Adolf Hitler,
275
00:25:22,097 --> 00:25:25,183
to name our sources, and to say why we
see Hitler as one of the greatest Germans.
276
00:25:25,349 --> 00:25:29,829
K�hnen came from a good middle-class family
and was politically active very early.
277
00:25:30,032 --> 00:25:36,181
He joined an NPD youth group at 14
and was active at school.
278
00:25:36,434 --> 00:25:42,728
At the end of the 70's he gained access
to the "Friends of the NSDAP" in Hamburg,
279
00:25:42,990 --> 00:25:46,157
and that's where he really blossomed.
280
00:25:46,246 --> 00:25:50,784
K�hnen had a plan:
he wanted a new, legal SA [Storm Troops].
281
00:25:50,912 --> 00:25:54,166
He wanted to dominate the streets,
to be in the vanguard
282
00:25:54,484 --> 00:25:57,062
of masses of new Storm Troopers.
283
00:26:00,238 --> 00:26:05,037
("Panorama",
Hamburg 1977)
284
00:26:05,460 --> 00:26:12,036
Comrades, citizens of Hamburg, this is a rally
of the National Socialist Action Front.
285
00:26:13,211 --> 00:26:17,053
It is our goal to live
and to fight for Germany.
286
00:26:17,251 --> 00:26:21,626
We are also ready, if necessary,
to die for Germany.
287
00:26:22,347 --> 00:26:24,825
The National Socialist Action Front...
288
00:26:25,238 --> 00:26:27,780
Retreat!
289
00:26:30,243 --> 00:26:34,551
Of course, I knew of
Michael K�hnen and Ewald Althans.
290
00:26:35,761 --> 00:26:41,773
Especially K�hnen had
a very charismatic personality.
291
00:26:41,973 --> 00:26:46,298
I didn't find him charismatic,
but maybe I'm too demanding.
292
00:26:46,843 --> 00:26:51,241
I'm Burkhard Schr�der. For 15 years
I've been an author and journalist.
293
00:26:51,401 --> 00:26:54,574
specializing in neo-Nazism and racism.
294
00:26:54,970 --> 00:27:02,997
I know personally most of the so-called
comrades who are politically active.
295
00:27:03,115 --> 00:27:05,011
Do neo-Nazis love the press?
296
00:27:05,436 --> 00:27:07,555
Yes, they love the press like everyone does.
297
00:27:07,803 --> 00:27:13,360
I think K�hnen was one of the first
in that milieu who understood
298
00:27:13,483 --> 00:27:18,741
the classic advertising maxim:
"There's no such thing as bad publicity."
299
00:27:18,859 --> 00:27:22,745
We, the media,
made K�hnen into what he was.
300
00:27:22,904 --> 00:27:27,023
He used us.
It was give and take.
301
00:27:27,130 --> 00:27:31,166
He said in a speech in Dresden,
"The magazine Spiegel
302
00:27:31,276 --> 00:27:34,464
"made me into the most dangerous
German neo-Nazi, and that's what I am!"
303
00:27:34,788 --> 00:27:38,144
He could have said,
"The Spiegel gave me a medal."
304
00:27:38,336 --> 00:27:43,690
Young people came from former
East Germany and asked for his autograph!
305
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,964
They knew him from anti-West propaganda
on TV as the most dangerous neo-Nazi.
306
00:27:49,089 --> 00:27:52,258
They didn't know the right-wing politicians,
but they all knew K�hnen.
307
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:56,701
And he got a kick
out of giving them autographs.
308
00:27:56,853 --> 00:28:02,689
His homosexuality was never really
a subject of discussion.
309
00:28:02,872 --> 00:28:09,494
He was represented and accepted
by many as the F�hrer.
310
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,938
("Panorama", 1978)
311
00:28:12,049 --> 00:28:17,350
We want the end of the parties ruling here
and the end of Jewish influence in Germany.
312
00:28:17,472 --> 00:28:22,888
We're not rowdies as the press claims.
We're for order and decency.
313
00:28:23,012 --> 00:28:28,349
We've never struck the first blow, but
the time of putting up with everything is over!
314
00:28:32,958 --> 00:28:36,086
I knew I was gay quite early.
315
00:28:36,286 --> 00:28:43,721
At 17 things started getting intense
with an NPD functionary.
316
00:28:43,986 --> 00:28:48,196
I'd been in love with him for some time.
317
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:50,855
We'd done a lot together politically,
and I always tried to get close to him.
318
00:28:50,968 --> 00:28:52,914
The first time you had sex
was in Dresden?
319
00:28:53,109 --> 00:28:58,674
Yes, yes. I had to think for a moment,
but it was in Dresden. -Do you remember it?
320
00:28:58,795 --> 00:29:02,779
We drank a few beers, and then I...
321
00:29:03,522 --> 00:29:14,502
"Let's watch a video." Before, I'd overcome
myself and rented a heterosexual sex film.
322
00:29:14,713 --> 00:29:16,343
So we were watching that...
323
00:29:16,727 --> 00:29:23,706
I remember. I guess everyone does.
-And? -It was disappointing.
324
00:29:24,177 --> 00:29:26,688
It was disappointing.
Maybe that's so for everyone.
325
00:29:26,887 --> 00:29:29,617
The first time...
-How old were you? -17.
326
00:29:31,364 --> 00:29:37,382
We kept sliding closer,
and then we started fondling each other.
327
00:29:37,620 --> 00:29:41,605
Interesting was that he touched me first.
328
00:29:41,783 --> 00:29:46,381
We met again the next day.
He'd gone home that night.
329
00:29:46,533 --> 00:29:49,278
We didn't mention what we'd done.
330
00:29:49,441 --> 00:29:55,679
In the 4 years we met to have sex,
sometimes 3, 4, 5 times a week,
331
00:29:55,791 --> 00:30:04,550
not once did we talk about sex.
The word "gay" was never said.
332
00:30:05,199 --> 00:30:09,356
My first long relationship
started in 1988.
333
00:30:09,697 --> 00:30:14,030
We moved together,
and the people in the house didn't mind.
334
00:30:14,337 --> 00:30:19,641
I sort of blackmailed my parents. I said,
"Guess what, I'm gay. I live with a guy.
335
00:30:19,836 --> 00:30:24,110
"If that's okay with you, come to our
housewarming. If not, stay away."
336
00:30:24,284 --> 00:30:27,726
They were there, and since then, it's fine.
337
00:30:30,403 --> 00:30:36,982
Weren't the others very hostile?
Did you have to defend yourselves?
338
00:30:37,672 --> 00:30:39,915
No, because nobody knew.
339
00:30:40,044 --> 00:30:41,933
When I think about it today...
340
00:30:43,188 --> 00:30:44,935
The situation was so ambiguous...
341
00:30:45,125 --> 00:30:49,847
It was so stifling and hidden...
342
00:30:51,331 --> 00:30:54,333
It was deforming.
343
00:30:54,530 --> 00:30:56,299
("Hamburger Journal" of NDR TV,
10.3.1987)
344
00:30:56,461 --> 00:31:03,264
Correction: "In the 'Hamburg Journal' of
Feb. 24, 1987, between 7:15 and 8 o'clock,
345
00:31:03,379 --> 00:31:07,697
"it was claimed: '... and of all people,
the F�hrer K�hnen is homosexual.'
346
00:31:07,906 --> 00:31:13,350
"This claim is false. Correct is, I am not
homosexual." Signed: Michael K�hnen.
347
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,850
Did you know at that time
that K�hnen was gay? -My God, no.
348
00:31:18,097 --> 00:31:21,472
There were no rumors?
-No, none.
349
00:31:21,728 --> 00:31:24,809
It's funny how one party official put it:
350
00:31:24,963 --> 00:31:30,330
"Whether a comrade at home has sex
with his hamster, his toaster, or his wife
351
00:31:30,429 --> 00:31:36,795
"doesn't matter, if he does his political work
and doesn't make his sex life public."
352
00:31:36,882 --> 00:31:39,645
(J�rgen Rieger, attorney,
chairman of "nationalist race club")
353
00:31:39,827 --> 00:31:42,829
I'm an attorney and farmer.
354
00:31:42,941 --> 00:31:50,971
In my capacity as a lawyer,
I have contact with nationalistic Germans.
355
00:31:51,166 --> 00:31:53,487
One of them was Michael K�hnen.
356
00:31:53,680 --> 00:32:00,036
Did you notice K�hnen's homosexuality?
Did he talk about it? Were there rumors?
357
00:32:00,176 --> 00:32:05,479
Initially, Michael K�hnen
kept very quiet about that.
358
00:32:05,597 --> 00:32:10,885
Then K�hnen went abroad,
hoping to make international contacts.
359
00:32:11,027 --> 00:32:14,933
In France, he connected
with Michel Caignet
360
00:32:15,073 --> 00:32:19,455
who owned a gay magazine
and later published K�hnen's treatise.
361
00:32:19,568 --> 00:32:28,174
In the long run, the connection to Caignet
was damaging to K�hnen.
362
00:32:28,331 --> 00:32:33,816
These are the magazines of Michel Caignet,
the first open gay in the neo-Nazi scene.
363
00:32:34,004 --> 00:32:36,862
Caignet's plan was to establish
364
00:32:36,983 --> 00:32:41,287
a gay organization
within the neo-Nazi movement.
365
00:32:41,496 --> 00:32:45,902
Once he went public,
he was banned from the scene,
366
00:32:46,169 --> 00:32:53,149
and that was the beginning
of the "AHC", the anti-homo campaign
367
00:32:53,371 --> 00:32:55,179
that snowballed from there.
368
00:33:00,406 --> 00:33:05,714
The homosexual tragedy
in the movement. A hard story...
369
00:33:05,832 --> 00:33:09,490
K�hnen had to go into exile.
370
00:33:09,704 --> 00:33:13,591
He was facing a long-term prison sentence,
and we decided he should leave.
371
00:33:13,856 --> 00:33:15,942
("Freedom for ... Michael K�hnen!")
372
00:33:16,193 --> 00:33:22,024
Then a conference was called,
and K�hnen's own chosen deputy
373
00:33:22,199 --> 00:33:28,028
was caught having sex with a man.
374
00:33:28,197 --> 00:33:33,411
It was like a boil bursting open.
375
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:39,101
Of course, the deputy, K�hnen's trustee
with full powers of authority,
376
00:33:39,195 --> 00:33:44,538
was told to pack up and get out
because he was scum.
377
00:33:44,664 --> 00:33:51,572
That led to other people speaking up:
"Wait a minute. I am, too."
378
00:33:51,831 --> 00:33:55,153
Like: "If you live in a glass house,
don't throw stones."
379
00:33:55,265 --> 00:34:00,679
Suddenly, homosexuals were popping up
throughout the movement.
380
00:34:00,791 --> 00:34:03,289
Hatred was deliberately stirred up,
381
00:34:03,421 --> 00:34:06,896
which led to a young neo-Nazi in Hamburg
being murdered because he was gay.
382
00:34:07,066 --> 00:34:13,525
It was a witch hunt, and you were defying
death to be in the scene and openly gay.
383
00:34:15,514 --> 00:34:18,005
(Assasin - right extremists arrested)
384
00:34:18,313 --> 00:34:21,740
A lynch-law murder by right-wing extremists
made headlines.
385
00:34:21,994 --> 00:34:27,648
The victim, Johannes B�gner,
was in the National Socialist Action Front
386
00:34:27,816 --> 00:34:30,285
which was founded by Michael K�hnen.
387
00:34:30,535 --> 00:34:33,597
The victim was homosexual.
388
00:34:33,778 --> 00:34:39,591
He frequented the men's bar Can-Can
near Hamburg's main railroad station.
389
00:34:39,927 --> 00:34:45,775
Formerly the Terminus, the bar has long been
a meeting place for right-wing extremists.
390
00:34:45,912 --> 00:34:50,789
Under the pretext that they
had orders from the F�hrer K�hnen,
391
00:34:50,944 --> 00:34:53,859
the culprits - seen here -
392
00:34:53,974 --> 00:34:56,134
lured the unsuspecting B�gner into a car.
393
00:34:56,268 --> 00:34:59,514
They drove with him
through Barsb�ttel to Sternwarde.
394
00:34:59,793 --> 00:35:04,141
Here in the country,
far from houses, in the midst of fields,
395
00:35:04,267 --> 00:35:10,043
B�gner, 26, was stabbed 22 times,
and his body was dragged into a ditch.
396
00:35:17,095 --> 00:35:19,885
For K�hnen it was a shock.
397
00:35:19,984 --> 00:35:31,951
He knew about the scene's anti-gay sentiment
but didn't dream it could go as far as murder.
398
00:35:32,133 --> 00:35:36,054
In no uncertain terms,
he dissociated himself from the murderers.
399
00:35:36,188 --> 00:35:40,056
He dedicated a pamphlet
to the gay victim
400
00:35:40,185 --> 00:35:43,874
which presented him as a martyr
to the movement.
401
00:35:44,084 --> 00:35:50,718
I remember reading that pamphlet,
"National Socialism and Homosexuality",
402
00:35:50,827 --> 00:35:54,525
and I cried my eyes out.
403
00:35:54,609 --> 00:35:58,960
I cried and couldn't stop
because my world had fallen apart.
404
00:35:59,066 --> 00:36:01,728
The man I'd believed in was homosexual.
405
00:36:01,881 --> 00:36:06,980
That was my opinion, that K�hnen
had written his political death warrant.
406
00:36:07,155 --> 00:36:13,399
After reading that pamphlet,
I knew he was done for as a politician.
407
00:36:13,542 --> 00:36:19,847
He wrote that Nazism and homosexuality
are compatible. More than that...
408
00:36:19,994 --> 00:36:24,783
When he writes that a gay neo-Nazi
is better than a straight one
409
00:36:24,958 --> 00:36:29,519
because he's better
as a soldier in the trenches:
410
00:36:29,715 --> 00:36:35,549
he doesn't have wife and kids to think about,
but only the beloved comrades around him...
411
00:36:35,672 --> 00:36:41,832
That doesn't promote emancipation;
I read: "Gays are better cannon fodder."
412
00:36:41,982 --> 00:36:45,064
He wrote, "We need soldiers."
Then he brought in the ancient Greeks,
413
00:36:45,182 --> 00:36:50,977
the fighting units of male lovers in Sparta,
and what not.
414
00:36:51,142 --> 00:36:54,414
Naturally, it was an enormous provocation.
415
00:36:55,075 --> 00:37:00,028
Nazis out! Nazis out!
416
00:37:03,742 --> 00:37:10,278
It astounded me that among K�hnen's
adversaries, there were also gays.
417
00:37:10,461 --> 00:37:11,956
K�hnen opponents sing:
418
00:37:12,073 --> 00:37:16,641
On a lamppost near the Chancellery
Hang gay K�hnen and his deputy
419
00:37:16,752 --> 00:37:20,013
And all the Nazis gather there
To see the hanging faggot pair
420
00:37:20,130 --> 00:37:24,885
As once died SA chief R�hm...
You sang that? -We did.
421
00:37:35,594 --> 00:37:40,016
Even among his closest supporters,
K�hnen's position was pulverized.
422
00:37:40,275 --> 00:37:41,632
Have you called it off?
423
00:37:41,799 --> 00:37:46,967
Yes. We've crossed the street,
so the event is over.
424
00:37:48,429 --> 00:37:54,032
(The funeral of Michael K�hnen,
Kassel, Germany May 3, 1991)
425
00:37:57,858 --> 00:38:00,602
("Neo-nazi K�hnen - Aids!")
426
00:38:00,939 --> 00:38:07,418
So the neo-Nazi with AIDS - this was unthinkable
even for his most faithful ones.
427
00:38:07,648 --> 00:38:12,542
It went so far, that even I myself
heard rumors that his death was violent.
428
00:38:25,992 --> 00:38:34,114
So he was sentenced to dying, the painful
AIDS death and nothing was left from friendship.
429
00:38:34,253 --> 00:38:43,115
He died a wretched, lonely death. Then
at the funeral, there were ringing speeches:
430
00:38:43,285 --> 00:38:47,910
"Comrade, we'll never forget you."
I found it ridiculous.
431
00:38:48,732 --> 00:38:52,280
Dear comrade Michael,
you live on in our hearts.
432
00:38:57,523 --> 00:39:02,217
Michael, you are a victim
of these times,
433
00:39:02,436 --> 00:39:06,425
and their omnipresent
anti-humanness.
434
00:39:10,215 --> 00:39:12,338
But he became a legend...
435
00:39:12,615 --> 00:39:18,351
When someone's so famous
that people steal his ashes...
436
00:39:18,495 --> 00:39:20,368
Well, it won't happen to me.
437
00:39:20,589 --> 00:39:25,588
In life, despised as gay
by most of the movement,
438
00:39:25,741 --> 00:39:28,933
once dead, he was good enough
to serve as blooded witness to the cause.
439
00:39:29,089 --> 00:39:33,128
(After the funeral of Michael K�hnen,
Kassel, 3.5.1991)
440
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,695
Nazis out! Nazis out!
441
00:39:58,939 --> 00:40:02,139
I have to say I'm shaken.
442
00:40:02,324 --> 00:40:07,205
It confirms that national-political work
in West Germany is impossible.
443
00:40:07,374 --> 00:40:10,432
The stupefaction of the people
is too advanced.
444
00:40:10,567 --> 00:40:13,300
When I'm in my hometown
or somewhere else in the East,
445
00:40:13,404 --> 00:40:18,816
I can wear my outfit and do national-
political work without being molested.
446
00:40:18,955 --> 00:40:20,593
I feel seriously threatened here.
447
00:40:20,689 --> 00:40:25,150
I'll be glad to get back
to my formerly socialist homeland.
448
00:40:25,292 --> 00:40:28,322
That's all I have to say.
449
00:40:36,420 --> 00:40:40,824
A new documentary film
by Winfried Bonengel is fuel for controversy.
450
00:40:40,996 --> 00:40:47,069
"Profession: Neo-Nazi" premieres Thursday.
Focus: the leadership of the New Right.
451
00:40:47,194 --> 00:40:50,574
The media was hunting
for K�hnen's successor.
452
00:40:50,789 --> 00:40:54,808
They found a bunch of lost,
bewildered souls,
453
00:40:54,994 --> 00:40:59,833
and in me they found someone
who could tie a tie and had a shop in Munich.
454
00:41:00,250 --> 00:41:05,871
(Film review "Occupation: Neonazi", NDR, 1993)
...is alarming document about leaders of New Right
455
00:41:06,081 --> 00:41:09,900
In the Munich office of the New Right,
the 27-year-old Althans holds sway.
456
00:41:09,985 --> 00:41:15,300
No shaved-headed underdog, he is chic,
modern, cynical, and obsessed with power.
457
00:41:15,401 --> 00:41:20,047
I want to have our people completely.
I want them totally.
458
00:41:20,202 --> 00:41:24,940
I want to bind them
into a closed community like a sect.
459
00:41:25,073 --> 00:41:30,889
The people should be absorbed
in our ideological community 24 hours a day.
460
00:41:31,012 --> 00:41:38,473
What led up to the trip to Auschwitz,
the trip that landed you in prison?
461
00:41:38,563 --> 00:41:40,855
That's a sad story.
462
00:41:40,959 --> 00:41:45,846
We were in Cottbus, and they said,
"Let's go to Auschwitz."
463
00:41:45,955 --> 00:41:47,648
While shooting the film?
-Yes.
464
00:41:47,766 --> 00:41:52,015
Out of the blue. No plan, no preparation.
Just "We want to go there."
465
00:41:52,116 --> 00:41:54,793
I said, "OK, let's go."
466
00:41:54,946 --> 00:41:59,313
On a visit to the gas chambers at Auschwitz,
Bonengel's film shows the self-named F�hrer
467
00:41:59,455 --> 00:42:05,051
as a callous, unscrupulous demagogue,
greedy for fame.
468
00:42:06,460 --> 00:42:09,158
Shocked spectators
at the scene of horror.
469
00:42:09,316 --> 00:42:15,235
It's not pseudo-science! Cyanide gas
would've turned the bricks Prussian blue.
470
00:42:15,350 --> 00:42:22,435
Yes, indeed! As a German I stand here
and protest that millions of people are misled
471
00:42:22,563 --> 00:42:23,135
by this mock-up!
472
00:42:23,237 --> 00:42:26,688
(Winfried Bonengel, film maker)
So much happened thanks to this movie.
473
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:33,310
Althans, the main figure in the film,
is very exhibitionistic and craves recognition.
474
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,258
If Althans had understood the risk
475
00:42:37,452 --> 00:42:43,241
of going to prison for what he said in the film,
he wouldn't have said it.
476
00:42:43,336 --> 00:42:48,085
In Auschwitz?
-Yes. He did time for denying the Holocaust.
477
00:42:48,226 --> 00:42:53,436
I contacted many lawyers,
spent a lot of money, arranged court orders,
478
00:42:53,536 --> 00:42:58,569
all in an effort to keep Winfried
from spreading that untruth.
479
00:42:58,744 --> 00:43:04,215
What's presented in his film and in the end
put me in prison are not my own words.
480
00:43:04,379 --> 00:43:11,939
I never advocated that opinion,
and nevertheless, for so-called "remarks"
481
00:43:12,152 --> 00:43:14,558
I was in prison for years.
482
00:43:14,725 --> 00:43:17,306
I got stuck in a high-security prison
for 21 months,
483
00:43:17,389 --> 00:43:22,295
isolated from the outside population,
chased around the yard
484
00:43:22,410 --> 00:43:25,903
mornings before sunrise
for 45 minutes with hardened criminals:
485
00:43:26,021 --> 00:43:28,921
and I should apologize?
No way.
486
00:43:29,053 --> 00:43:31,773
Auschwitz was too deeply symbolic.
487
00:43:31,945 --> 00:43:38,898
Certain stupid, inhuman remarks are
no longer tolerated and lead to prosecution.
488
00:43:39,842 --> 00:43:45,750
(Westfriedhof, Munich)
489
00:43:48,490 --> 00:43:54,004
This book, The Last Homeland,
lists the Munich celebrities buried here.
490
00:43:54,153 --> 00:43:58,389
Here we have him:
359, number 3-1 .
491
00:43:58,593 --> 00:44:03,022
Ernst R�hm,
Captain (retired); politician. Died in 1934.
492
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,613
What do you think
he liked to do sexually?
493
00:44:07,703 --> 00:44:11,236
I know a police file
on a good friend of R�hm's,
494
00:44:11,370 --> 00:44:14,928
Gerhard von Prosh,
who was also sent to Dachau.
495
00:44:15,081 --> 00:44:20,151
(Albert Knoll, archivist,
Dachau Concentration camp memorial site)
496
00:44:20,296 --> 00:44:27,565
Prosch preferred boys between 15 and 20.
That could reflect R�hm's predilection.
497
00:44:27,872 --> 00:44:32,883
It says here, "A young man told me
that Herr von Prosch
498
00:44:33,142 --> 00:44:35,708
"'blew him' once or twice.
499
00:44:35,905 --> 00:44:40,686
"By that he meant that von Prosch
took W�stinger's member into his mouth.
500
00:44:40,803 --> 00:44:44,340
"W�stinger claims he received
app. 50 marks for that."
501
00:44:44,444 --> 00:44:50,316
Prosch thought the Nazis had repealed the
law against homosexuality, Paragraph 175.
502
00:44:50,406 --> 00:44:56,993
He told the police chief,
"Because R�hm himself took me to this boy,
503
00:44:57,125 --> 00:45:02,628
"l was convinced that kind of sexual contact
is no longer against the law."
504
00:45:02,762 --> 00:45:08,005
Here we are. Ernst R�hm.
The whole family is buried here.
505
00:45:08,833 --> 00:45:13,400
There in the middle:
"Ernst R�hm, Captain".
506
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:21,431
His mother died half a year later. -Yes.
"Railway inspector-general's widow".
507
00:45:21,614 --> 00:45:24,372
Didn't Ernst R�hm live with his mother?
508
00:45:25,514 --> 00:45:31,813
They shared a flat
at Hohenzollern Strasse 1 10.
509
00:45:33,333 --> 00:45:37,387
I'm Sven Reichardt. I'm an historian
at the University of Konstanz.
510
00:45:37,601 --> 00:45:42,307
My field is the history of fascism
between the world wars.
511
00:45:42,419 --> 00:45:45,302
In that context
I've studied Ernst R�hm,
512
00:45:45,439 --> 00:45:50,238
Chief of Staff of the SA [Storm Troops]
from 1931 until his death in 1934.
513
00:45:50,399 --> 00:45:55,798
Ernst R�hm was born in Munich in 1887.
514
00:45:56,207 --> 00:46:00,803
The elixir of R�hm's early life
was World War I.
515
00:46:00,963 --> 00:46:05,576
He experienced comradeship on the front
and was a high achiever in the military.
516
00:46:05,764 --> 00:46:11,356
For him, Germany's surrender in 1918
was the ultimate disaster.
517
00:46:11,512 --> 00:46:14,043
He didn't have much use for women.
518
00:46:14,251 --> 00:46:17,194
(Suzanne zur Nieden, historian,
Technische Universit�t Berlin)
519
00:46:17,353 --> 00:46:21,965
His emotional life intensified in WW I,
where men bled and sweated together.
520
00:46:22,083 --> 00:46:27,307
Good friends were killed and he cried...
But who knows? Maybe such men don't cry.
521
00:46:27,449 --> 00:46:30,568
He loved his comrades,
and he loved young men.
522
00:46:30,783 --> 00:46:38,402
It wasn't until 1924 that R�hm, as he later
wrote, "discovered" his homosexuality.
523
00:46:39,896 --> 00:46:42,126
We're here in the Court Gardens.
524
00:46:42,290 --> 00:46:46,575
This has always been
a classic gay cruising area.
525
00:46:46,674 --> 00:46:53,580
Soldiers were stationed here at the
Court Gardens near the Royal Residence.
526
00:46:53,728 --> 00:46:59,565
That means hundreds of hot,
young soldiers were always milling around.
527
00:46:59,707 --> 00:47:05,195
In the 1920's, the newspapers called this
the homosexual market place of Munich:
528
00:47:05,354 --> 00:47:06,931
"Disgraceful!"
529
00:47:07,135 --> 00:47:13,624
There's a public toilet at the exit which
gay men still frequent to this day.
530
00:47:13,951 --> 00:47:16,740
As far as Adolf Hitler's interest
in Ernst R�hm goes,
531
00:47:16,902 --> 00:47:23,267
I'd say the role played by homosexuality
was nonexistent or very small.
532
00:47:23,451 --> 00:47:29,740
They were friends on a first-name basis.
They'd met and become close in 1919.
533
00:47:29,937 --> 00:47:34,278
In the early days, Hitler was dependent
on R�hm, the machine gun king
534
00:47:34,448 --> 00:47:39,474
who could procure weapons and
set up arms depots and ammunition dumps.
535
00:47:39,633 --> 00:47:43,818
Hitler needed the Storm Troops
as a potential attack force.
536
00:47:43,936 --> 00:47:48,884
You can't overthrow the government
without the threat of violence.
537
00:47:48,995 --> 00:47:52,441
For that, R�hm is perfect.
He's Hitler's best friend
538
00:47:52,588 --> 00:47:57,601
and is ready to kill anyone
who tries to harm his buddy Adolf.
539
00:47:58,414 --> 00:48:03,872
The SA was an ambitious organization,
and R�hm made it into a mass organization.
540
00:48:03,979 --> 00:48:09,256
When he took over in January of 1931 ,
there were 77,000 Storm Troopers.
541
00:48:09,423 --> 00:48:12,546
One year later, there were 291 ,000.
542
00:48:19,154 --> 00:48:23,765
R�hm's own actions aren't so brutal.
He doesn't commit murders, he arranges them.
543
00:48:24,008 --> 00:48:31,325
But in appearance and bearing,
he's all man, a real man, a real killer.
544
00:48:31,744 --> 00:48:32,782
And he's gay.
545
00:48:40,905 --> 00:48:43,686
"Attention!
Today: a mass gassing of gays.
546
00:48:43,883 --> 00:48:46,865
"All you filthy gay swine:
547
00:48:47,012 --> 00:48:50,859
"Do you really think,
just because we have a shitty gay mayor
548
00:48:50,976 --> 00:48:54,490
"and it seems 'in' these days
to spread AIDS,
549
00:48:54,645 --> 00:48:58,768
"that you can frolic shamelessly
in the capital of our Reich?
550
00:48:58,923 --> 00:49:02,553
"Watch out, you gay pigs.
You'll see.
551
00:49:02,689 --> 00:49:08,694
"Soon the papers will be full of stories
about gay hunts, gay ambushes, etc.
552
00:49:08,847 --> 00:49:13,025
"I'm one of many who hates your guts.
553
00:49:13,192 --> 00:49:19,611
"You really deserve to be gassed,
you amoral, thoughtless spreaders of disease.
554
00:49:19,752 --> 00:49:25,852
You are the main spreaders of AIDS, capable
for infecting the healthy nation."
555
00:49:26,008 --> 00:49:28,042
(Bastian Finke, Maneo-
Gay Phone victim assault assistance)
556
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,126
"That's the number one reason
to hate you, hunt you, kill you."
557
00:49:31,246 --> 00:49:34,755
("Violence on gays,
we are here for you")
558
00:49:34,949 --> 00:49:38,903
That was a notice
posted anonymously in a gay chat room.
559
00:49:39,036 --> 00:49:49,613
Of course, it was reported to the police,
but they never found out who wrote it.
560
00:49:50,021 --> 00:49:53,030
And it's not the only case?
-Things like it pop up regularly.
561
00:49:55,473 --> 00:49:59,396
There have been cliques
within this movement
562
00:49:59,584 --> 00:50:03,094
whose members, usually in groups,
but sometimes individually...
563
00:50:03,474 --> 00:50:06,990
These supposed skinheads,
who aren't skinheads in my view,
564
00:50:07,137 --> 00:50:12,277
would go to toilets and parks
with the intention of beating up gays.
565
00:50:12,506 --> 00:50:17,452
When I'd get wind of that,
they had considerable trouble with me.
566
00:50:17,667 --> 00:50:21,365
I always had enough people to back me up.
567
00:50:21,479 --> 00:50:27,890
We'll get you all!
We'll get you all!
568
00:50:29,638 --> 00:50:36,687
R�hm had a circle of young people...
I'd call them male hustlers.
569
00:50:37,636 --> 00:50:43,640
They'd meet in the flat
of a confidant named Peter Graninger.
570
00:50:43,778 --> 00:50:55,020
R�hm didn't cruise the toilets personally.
He'd have boys sent to him in private flats.
571
00:50:55,245 --> 00:51:02,191
The Nazi Party started using
professional ads, some of them with R�hm.
572
00:51:02,323 --> 00:51:09,229
One of the rent-boys sees
R�hm's picture and thinks:
573
00:51:09,339 --> 00:51:14,215
"He's famous. I can blackmail him."
But R�hm doesn't play along.
574
00:51:15,038 --> 00:51:21,097
He's comfortable with his homosexuality
and has the boy arrested for blackmail.
575
00:51:21,220 --> 00:51:28,870
Due to his status in the SA,
R�hm's position was very secure.
576
00:51:28,987 --> 00:51:34,062
Even though it was public knowledge,
nothing happened to him. He didn't go to jail.
577
00:51:34,163 --> 00:51:42,571
A warrant was issued under Paragraph 175,
but it was never served.
578
00:51:42,681 --> 00:51:47,306
(LOVE LETTERS OF CAPTAIN R�HM)
579
00:51:47,434 --> 00:51:51,986
(WARM BROTHERHOOD IN THE BROWN HOUSE
Sex Life in the Third Reich)
580
00:51:52,196 --> 00:51:57,393
(The National-Pederastic Workers Party
THE LOVEPLAY OF CAPTAIN R�HM
New Letters that Expose the Hitler Swamp)
581
00:51:57,594 --> 00:52:02,860
(THE BROWN HOUSE OF HOMOSEXUALS
The Homosexual Trail Lengthens from Munich to Berlin)
582
00:52:02,977 --> 00:52:10,271
In 1931 and '32, the Social Democratic Party
started campaigns against Ernst R�hm.
583
00:52:10,396 --> 00:52:13,230
There were dark insinuations
in M�nchener Post
584
00:52:13,395 --> 00:52:17,606
in which R�hm's letters are mentioned,
among other things.
585
00:52:17,827 --> 00:52:22,976
(DUE TO R�HM'S NATURE
SHALL THE WORLD BE RICHER
The Perverse Letters of a Hitler Minion)
586
00:52:23,088 --> 00:52:28,822
Then the Berlin police asked the
Munich police to help confiscate the letters.
587
00:52:28,975 --> 00:52:35,119
They saw them as important evidence
to prove that R�hm was really gay.
588
00:52:35,472 --> 00:52:38,261
("R�hm prostituted young unemployed")
589
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:44,008
The papers print the letters: "A homosexual
Chief of Staff corrupts our German youth!"
590
00:52:44,295 --> 00:52:48,858
There's a suggestive cartoon
that shows young Storm Troopers
591
00:52:48,980 --> 00:52:54,460
presenting their bottoms
for R�hm's greedy inspection.
592
00:52:57,410 --> 00:53:03,556
In our eyes, the German youth of the future
must be slender and supple:
593
00:53:03,723 --> 00:53:08,452
swift as greyhounds, tough as leather,
and hard as Krupp steel.
594
00:53:17,053 --> 00:53:22,152
Hitler publicly supported R�hm,
595
00:53:22,333 --> 00:53:27,492
saying the SA isn't a girl's school,
it's a league of rough fighting men.
596
00:53:27,590 --> 00:53:29,754
Private matters are unimportant.
597
00:53:29,858 --> 00:53:31,639
There are two factions.
598
00:53:31,751 --> 00:53:37,545
Hitler shields his friend because he needs
this violent man of action at his side.
599
00:53:37,895 --> 00:53:42,543
Others find the scandal so dangerous
600
00:53:42,672 --> 00:53:45,298
that they consider liquidating R�hm.
601
00:53:45,413 --> 00:53:51,364
They even dug up assassins
who were ready to murder R�hm.
602
00:53:51,497 --> 00:53:53,772
Which didn't happen.
603
00:53:53,903 --> 00:54:02,264
R�hm's adversaries in the Nazi Party
were strong: Rosenberg, Goebbels, Hess...
604
00:54:02,497 --> 00:54:08,539
They said it was very bad for the Party,
which was naturally against homosexuality.
605
00:54:08,683 --> 00:54:12,926
On the other hand, Ernst R�hm
was in a very high and mighty position,
606
00:54:13,027 --> 00:54:17,385
the vice-F�hrer, so to speak,
and a practicing homosexual.
607
00:54:17,467 --> 00:54:26,128
It can be a problem that people don't
expect gays to have such political values.
608
00:54:26,273 --> 00:54:33,729
Clear the streets for German youth!
609
00:54:34,488 --> 00:54:38,923
Within the party leadership
there's a quite sophisticated attitude:
610
00:54:39,028 --> 00:54:45,220
"True, we're not pro-gay, but if a member
is gay and has a national awareness
611
00:54:45,624 --> 00:54:50,586
"and belongs to the German folk
and wants to fight for that, fine."
612
00:54:50,774 --> 00:54:57,096
In my party - as I said, I don't want to say
which of the many right-wing parties it is -
613
00:54:57,243 --> 00:55:00,768
I've had many positive experiences:
614
00:55:00,956 --> 00:55:07,535
visiting family fathers with my friend,
discussing politics, listening to records...
615
00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:12,658
Below the leadership, in the rank and file,
opinions are more extreme.
616
00:55:12,775 --> 00:55:16,823
They can erupt in anti-gay violence.
617
00:55:23,374 --> 00:55:27,653
Once in a while some dumb wanker
might say to me, "You gay sow."
618
00:55:27,774 --> 00:55:32,434
I'll say, "Don't take it so hard.
We know what we're fighting for."
619
00:55:32,532 --> 00:55:35,062
Things are better than we're told.
620
00:55:36,057 --> 00:55:40,598
If you're in the NPD and openly gay,
you don't necessarily live safely.
621
00:55:56,493 --> 00:56:02,059
I'm Lothar Machtan. I teach modern history
at the University of Bremen.
622
00:56:02,455 --> 00:56:07,560
My last book is The Hidden Hitler,
the Double Life of a Dictator.
623
00:56:07,909 --> 00:56:15,229
It's interesting that in Hitler's life,
it wasn't until 1926
624
00:56:15,488 --> 00:56:20,479
that women played a role.
625
00:56:20,590 --> 00:56:24,713
The man was 37 years old.
That's more than a bit unusual.
626
00:56:24,906 --> 00:56:28,514
On the other hand,
he didn't live without social contacts.
627
00:56:28,703 --> 00:56:36,613
He wasn't a hermit or a loner; rather,
he lived in communities made up of men.
628
00:56:37,407 --> 00:56:38,981
Hail working men!
629
00:56:39,133 --> 00:56:41,053
Hail my F�hrer!
630
00:56:41,205 --> 00:56:45,378
It began with the relationship
with August Kubicek
631
00:56:45,573 --> 00:56:52,232
who wrote a memoir
that exists in several variations.
632
00:56:52,377 --> 00:56:54,282
(August Kubicek,
youth friend of Hitler)
633
00:56:54,518 --> 00:56:58,279
But that they shared a bed
is nevertheless worthy of attention.
634
00:56:58,424 --> 00:57:02,372
It continues with the friendships
Hitler made in the home for men.
635
00:57:02,481 --> 00:57:06,972
The sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld
called the homes for men
636
00:57:07,105 --> 00:57:12,206
subcultural centers of homosexuality.
637
00:57:12,479 --> 00:57:15,493
Hitler is a legitimate object
of historical science.
638
00:57:15,713 --> 00:57:18,722
(Prof. Dr. Dr. R�diger Lautmann,
sociologist, University of Bremen)
639
00:57:18,895 --> 00:57:23,413
But Machtan's material doesn't amount
to more than a logically consistent thesis
640
00:57:23,530 --> 00:57:27,929
for an essay of 30 pages.
641
00:57:28,051 --> 00:57:33,271
No testimony exists of anyone
who saw Hitler in bed with somebody.
642
00:57:33,393 --> 00:57:35,443
There's only speculation.
643
00:57:52,239 --> 00:57:54,959
("Adolf Hitler in Battlefield")
644
00:57:55,239 --> 00:57:59,565
Then there's the evidence
of Hitler's war comrade Mend,
645
00:57:59,756 --> 00:58:05,686
that Hitler had a homosexual relationship
with fellow soldier Ernst Schmidt in WW I.
646
00:58:05,886 --> 00:58:08,103
(Prof. Dr. Bernd Ulrich Hergem�ller,
historian, University of Hamburg)
647
00:58:08,204 --> 00:58:12,013
The problem is, that if you were
checking it from the other side -
648
00:58:12,150 --> 00:58:16,791
If you turned it around and searched
so intensely for female figures,
649
00:58:16,911 --> 00:58:19,201
you'd come up with
about the same number.
650
00:58:19,374 --> 00:58:24,568
But there's no proof of a lover,
no proof of sexual contact with men,
651
00:58:24,768 --> 00:58:26,490
nor with women.
652
00:58:26,689 --> 00:58:29,130
I consider it very likely
653
00:58:29,305 --> 00:58:34,912
that after 1934, he lived out
this homosexuality only in sublimated form.
654
00:58:35,018 --> 00:58:39,432
May I ask a personal question?
-Yes. -Are you homosexual? -No.
655
00:58:40,091 --> 00:58:41,831
"Evil comes from evil."
656
00:58:41,941 --> 00:58:48,675
That's the basic idea when sexual deviation
is seen as the source of political havoc.
657
00:58:48,835 --> 00:58:52,395
In the search for what to blame
for political disaster -
658
00:58:52,582 --> 00:58:56,406
it probably started already
in the Old Testament -
659
00:58:56,555 --> 00:59:02,390
there's always sexual deviation,
and homosexuals can be blamed.
660
00:59:02,563 --> 00:59:04,984
A Lothar Machtan belongs to this tradition.
661
00:59:05,526 --> 00:59:08,901
(from Cazzo Film movie "SKIN FLICK")
662
00:59:23,092 --> 00:59:29,121
Male organizations like the Hitler Youth,
the army, the SA, the SS...
663
00:59:29,338 --> 00:59:33,150
They always had a magical attraction
for gay men. That's the simple truth.
664
00:59:33,381 --> 00:59:38,600
I'd like to add the fact
that I know many...
665
00:59:38,692 --> 00:59:44,756
Don't hit me. It's just the simple truth.
I won't name names, but many gay men
666
00:59:44,961 --> 00:59:49,711
find it an incredible sexual kick
to fuck under a swastika flag.
667
00:59:49,861 --> 00:59:53,762
In Berlin alone, I know two
who have them over their beds.
668
01:00:11,707 --> 01:00:16,198
I know a photo book
from the Nazi era about the SS
669
01:00:16,395 --> 01:00:18,993
which, of course,
doesn't show their crimes.
670
01:00:19,149 --> 01:00:25,342
It idealizes the SS as brave,
courageous warriors.
671
01:00:25,476 --> 01:00:30,368
And many of the photos show them naked.
For instance, in the shower.
672
01:00:30,531 --> 01:00:31,894
Did that turn you on?
673
01:00:32,057 --> 01:00:37,077
Yes, it did.
It was very erotic.
674
01:00:50,330 --> 01:00:54,126
There was a right-wing
gay milieu in Berlin.
675
01:00:54,237 --> 01:00:59,925
Naturally, in Munich as well.
They met at the Bratwurst Gl�ckl.
676
01:01:00,162 --> 01:01:05,737
I'm Michael Beck. I'm the proprietor
of the Bratwurst Gl�ckl here in Munich.
677
01:01:05,889 --> 01:01:10,197
In the 20's and 30's
there were many student tables here.
678
01:01:10,393 --> 01:01:17,733
In that time, a table established itself
with regulars who came for years.
679
01:01:17,872 --> 01:01:21,611
One of them was R�hm.
Later, many from the SA came here.
680
01:01:21,785 --> 01:01:27,583
Some of those he knew
from the Bratwurst Gl�ckl and other places
681
01:01:27,725 --> 01:01:32,444
were given important positions in the SA:
Paul R�hrbein, Karl Ernst, Edmund Heines;
682
01:01:32,550 --> 01:01:35,532
all important SA leaders,
one in Berlin,
683
01:01:35,616 --> 01:01:39,954
another in charge of East Germany,
one of the biggest SA divisions.
684
01:01:40,101 --> 01:01:42,588
( Edmund Haines,
police president of Wroclaw)
685
01:01:42,762 --> 01:01:47,131
Heines was predominantly homosexual.
-He was also exceptionally brutal
686
01:01:47,262 --> 01:01:49,268
and committed many violent crimes.
687
01:01:50,121 --> 01:01:54,999
In Silesia he pursued
his sadistic inclinations quite openly.
688
01:01:55,118 --> 01:02:00,190
Near Wroclaw he set up
his own private little concentration camp
689
01:02:00,337 --> 01:02:03,429
where he could indulge himself.
690
01:02:03,603 --> 01:02:08,473
There he could torture and kill
his private prisoners.
691
01:02:14,311 --> 01:02:18,393
There is a small group
692
01:02:18,537 --> 01:02:24,637
who are wild about the old Nazi era.
693
01:02:24,767 --> 01:02:28,309
They do things like wearing
SS uniforms during sex
694
01:02:28,455 --> 01:02:35,038
and playing through things that happened
in concentration camps as S/M games.
695
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:39,870
For instance, one is the SS doctor,
and the other is the Jew.
696
01:02:40,752 --> 01:02:46,503
They find that sexually stimulating.
697
01:02:46,618 --> 01:02:51,582
Sadomasochistic games.
-Yes, usually with bondage.
698
01:02:51,775 --> 01:02:58,484
Sometimes it goes in the direction
of sex with weapons: knife, pistol, whatever.
699
01:02:58,676 --> 01:03:02,030
It goes as far as playing out executions.
700
01:03:07,918 --> 01:03:13,265
Since January 30th [when we took power],
the die is cast for Germany.
701
01:03:13,406 --> 01:03:20,007
And I don't believe that the opponents
who laughed at us then
702
01:03:20,148 --> 01:03:22,092
are still laughing today!
703
01:03:22,722 --> 01:03:26,183
The question was: What's to be done with the SA?
704
01:03:26,300 --> 01:03:28,422
It had always been seen as
705
01:03:28,648 --> 01:03:31,521
the storm troops for the so-called "civil war".
706
01:03:31,644 --> 01:03:34,928
At some point it would
become unnecessary, at the latest
707
01:03:35,092 --> 01:03:38,544
when the communist and social democratic
organizations had been destroyed.
708
01:03:38,740 --> 01:03:42,518
That led to a conflict
between R�hm and Hitler,
709
01:03:42,649 --> 01:03:47,179
who had decided quite early that
the official armed force would be the Army.
710
01:03:47,310 --> 01:03:50,283
R�hm thought it should be the SA.
711
01:03:56,100 --> 01:04:01,034
The army generals claimed that R�hm would
try to take over. He had foreign contacts,
712
01:04:01,211 --> 01:04:05,806
and there were other allegations,
including his homosexuality.
713
01:04:05,983 --> 01:04:11,905
For a long time Hitler wavered
over R�hm's fate. Could he be fired?
714
01:04:12,073 --> 01:04:15,188
Certainly, the decision
on how to deal with R�hm was difficult.
715
01:04:17,257 --> 01:04:25,567
Then a sham conference of SA leaders was
set up at Bad Wiessee on June 30, 1934.
716
01:04:25,690 --> 01:04:28,972
The excuse was that SA men
had attacked some diplomats,
717
01:04:29,116 --> 01:04:36,158
and the leaders must discuss
how to control such unbridled violence.
718
01:04:43,692 --> 01:04:48,910
So the SA leaders met at Bad Wiessee.
Hitler showed up surprisingly early.
719
01:04:49,076 --> 01:04:55,900
At 6:00 in the morning, Hitler arrived
at the Pension Hanselbauer with SS men.
720
01:04:56,061 --> 01:05:00,300
The story is that Hitler, pistol in his hand,
said, "R�hm, you're under arrest."
721
01:05:00,445 --> 01:05:03,043
Then they broke into other rooms
722
01:05:03,176 --> 01:05:06,495
and found Edmund Heines
in bed with his chauffeur.
723
01:05:06,686 --> 01:05:14,068
Later, Goebbels used that as propaganda,
calling it a revolting, vomit-inducing scene.
724
01:05:15,365 --> 01:05:22,730
On the front page of the Nazi paper for
July 2nd was the notice: "Ernst R�hm Shot".
725
01:05:22,833 --> 01:05:25,925
("The Thanks of the Nation
In Unshakable Loyalty to Adolf Hitler")
726
01:05:26,094 --> 01:05:31,453
Hitler also used it politically.
On July 13, 1934, he made a speech
727
01:05:31,621 --> 01:05:35,418
in which he tried to justify the action
and explain why it was necessary
728
01:05:35,540 --> 01:05:39,107
to have some 150 people shot,
729
01:05:39,264 --> 01:05:43,355
among them SA leaders,
but also many opponents of the regime.
730
01:05:43,535 --> 01:05:48,659
The life the Chief of Staff had begun
to lead, and with him a certain circle,
731
01:05:48,873 --> 01:05:52,996
was intolerable for every
National Socialistic sense of values!
732
01:05:53,646 --> 01:05:57,629
Claiming to have cleaned out a nest of homosexuals
733
01:05:57,758 --> 01:06:02,175
helped him legitimate the broken taboo of murder.
734
01:06:02,445 --> 01:06:06,422
Besides, R�hm's scandals
had always been a bother.
735
01:06:06,572 --> 01:06:13,148
The worst thing was that,
out of a certain common orientation,
736
01:06:13,363 --> 01:06:16,632
a sect had begun to form within the SA
737
01:06:16,784 --> 01:06:21,854
which was the core of a conspiracy,
not only against the morality of a healthy folk,
738
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:25,875
but also against
the security of the state.
739
01:06:26,027 --> 01:06:31,788
Albert Knoll, archivist,
Dachau Concentration camp memorial site
740
01:06:32,001 --> 01:06:40,526
What happened after R�hm's death?
-For gay people, life worsened dramatically.
741
01:06:40,603 --> 01:06:44,958
A few days later,
the first police raid occurred in Munich.
742
01:06:45,081 --> 01:06:51,097
R�hm's friend Graninger was sent to the
Dachau concentration camp for being gay.
743
01:06:51,708 --> 01:06:56,920
The idea was to turn
homosexuals into heterosexuals
744
01:06:57,046 --> 01:07:01,815
through hard work and little food.
That was how the Nazis thought.
745
01:07:01,925 --> 01:07:05,239
Once the Jews had been eliminated,
746
01:07:05,392 --> 01:07:10,522
it's certain that gays
would have become the new main target,
747
01:07:10,658 --> 01:07:16,715
and the Nazis would have tried
to wipe out gay people completely.
748
01:07:21,989 --> 01:07:26,688
In 1935, a year after R�hm's murder,
749
01:07:26,933 --> 01:07:31,168
the anti-gay law, Paragraph 175,
was harshened.
750
01:07:31,263 --> 01:07:38,195
The criminal police tripped over themselves
trying to make more arrests than the Gestapo.
751
01:07:38,383 --> 01:07:45,020
The result was a persecution of gays
beyond anything seen elsewhere in Europe.
752
01:07:52,890 --> 01:07:57,741
I didn't run out and say, "The radical right
scene is shit, and in 4 years
753
01:07:57,873 --> 01:07:59,633
"I'll be doing anti-fascist work."
754
01:07:59,742 --> 01:08:04,912
But there were two main reasons
why I left the scene:
755
01:08:05,056 --> 01:08:10,753
the vicious attacks in 1991
on homes for foreigners seeking asylum;
756
01:08:10,878 --> 01:08:14,958
and contradictions involving homosexuality.
757
01:08:15,100 --> 01:08:18,469
One can deal with it openly
without it being negative.
758
01:08:22,633 --> 01:08:26,457
Soon after I left the right-wing scene,
759
01:08:26,587 --> 01:08:33,610
I met my first real friend. We had
a genuine, acknowledged relationship.
760
01:08:33,757 --> 01:08:40,165
These days I'm involved
in social movements and programs.
761
01:08:40,292 --> 01:08:41,951
It doesn't cost anything.
762
01:08:42,867 --> 01:08:45,841
We'll demonstrate Sunday
on Alexanderplatz.
763
01:08:45,949 --> 01:08:49,258
That's so good, yeah.
764
01:08:49,551 --> 01:08:52,437
It's high time we stand up
against the whole mess.
765
01:08:52,589 --> 01:08:55,536
Well said. Just so!
766
01:08:58,649 --> 01:09:03,889
Between 1940 and '42 there was
a relatively horrible regiment here at Dachau.
767
01:09:04,006 --> 01:09:08,032
They carried out punishments
with extreme ruthlessness in this camp,
768
01:09:08,269 --> 01:09:10,764
also on the gay prisoners.
769
01:09:10,933 --> 01:09:16,140
For instance, wrists and ankles
were tied together over the back,
770
01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:19,028
and the inmate
was left dangling on the rope.
771
01:09:20,219 --> 01:09:25,454
Many gay men were murdered.
The numbers are still unclear.
772
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,437
Estimates are between 5,000 and 15,000.
773
01:09:29,857 --> 01:09:35,220
Alone in Berlin,
50,000 homosexual men were arrested.
774
01:09:35,376 --> 01:09:38,566
If you count all who went to court and...
775
01:09:38,669 --> 01:09:42,647
Here it gets difficult,
and no one dares to talk about it:
776
01:09:42,846 --> 01:09:49,415
if you count the gay Jews, the gay gypsies,
then you're in the hundreds of thousands.
777
01:09:49,580 --> 01:10:00,622
Beaten to death, silented to death /
homosexual sacrifices of national socialism
778
01:10:01,441 --> 01:10:08,005
Right-wing parties do discuss the murder
of gay men in concentration camps.
779
01:10:08,137 --> 01:10:10,953
They can legitimize it more easily
780
01:10:11,122 --> 01:10:16,041
by pointing out that the anti-homosexual law
as formulated by the Nazis,
781
01:10:16,172 --> 01:10:18,523
Paragraph 175-A,
782
01:10:18,648 --> 01:10:23,998
remained in force in Germany until 1969.
783
01:10:24,147 --> 01:10:28,715
Still in the 60's, the Constitutional Court
handed down decisions
784
01:10:28,854 --> 01:10:32,979
according to which the imprisonment
of gay men in concentration camps
785
01:10:33,174 --> 01:10:36,849
didn't contradict the law
of the Federal Republic of Germany.
786
01:10:37,087 --> 01:10:42,372
Therefore, the survivors
weren't eligible for compensation
787
01:10:42,649 --> 01:10:47,681
because, according to valid law,
it was still legal to imprison them.
788
01:10:47,801 --> 01:10:53,434
How do you deal with the contradiction,
that the Nazis persecuted gays?
789
01:10:53,524 --> 01:10:55,538
It's not really a contradiction.
790
01:10:55,750 --> 01:10:59,045
And you say the Nazis persecuted gays.
791
01:10:59,185 --> 01:11:04,069
Well, gays were persecuted and
imprisoned in the Soviet Union until 1990.
792
01:11:04,212 --> 01:11:10,728
You can't judge other times by the
knowledge and awareness we have today.
793
01:11:10,868 --> 01:11:19,044
The people's attitude to homosexuality
was very different then.
794
01:11:19,213 --> 01:11:23,915
In the time of the Third Reich,
in the Soviet Union in the 30's,
795
01:11:24,063 --> 01:11:30,938
in practically every country in the world
there were laws forbidding sex between men.
796
01:11:31,060 --> 01:11:35,323
Of course, from our knowledge
and life style today, we condemn that.
797
01:11:35,475 --> 01:11:38,393
But we can't damn our forefathers
798
01:11:38,507 --> 01:11:42,266
just because they lived
under different circumstances.
799
01:11:44,025 --> 01:11:48,846
I'm thinking now of my friend
who was 19 years old.
800
01:11:50,581 --> 01:11:53,337
Here it says,
"Beaten to death and denied."
801
01:11:53,433 --> 01:11:58,556
(Pierre Seel, prisoner of concetration camp,
uncovering of memorial table, Berlin 1997)
802
01:11:58,751 --> 01:12:01,778
That was indeed our situation.
803
01:12:01,903 --> 01:12:05,732
But he had to go still further.
804
01:12:06,061 --> 01:12:13,771
He was eaten alive...
805
01:12:14,617 --> 01:12:20,088
... by the dogs of the concentration camp
at Schirmeck-Vorbruck.
806
01:12:21,251 --> 01:12:27,758
Excuse me when I say this today...
807
01:12:29,389 --> 01:12:30,990
I can't forget that.
808
01:12:33,303 --> 01:12:36,343
I want to forget it,
but I can't.
809
01:12:41,013 --> 01:12:45,067
"Heil comrades: I'd like to know
what you think of homosexuals.
810
01:12:45,276 --> 01:12:50,349
"My opinion: I hate this riffraff
and don't see why they should be tolerated.
811
01:12:50,465 --> 01:12:56,406
"It's against the foundation of life.
For me, it's a defect in the survival instinct.
812
01:12:56,637 --> 01:13:00,876
"Unfortunately, things have gone so far
that these abnormal AIDS spreaders
813
01:13:00,996 --> 01:13:03,039
"can marry and adopt children... "
814
01:13:03,214 --> 01:13:05,403
"Homosexuals are sick, but incurable.
815
01:13:05,834 --> 01:13:09,715
"We must ever and again
eradicate the degenerate seed."
816
01:13:16,370 --> 01:13:19,065
I distance myself from
the Nazi content.
817
01:13:19,383 --> 01:13:24,074
That's not my world.
Some of the sites were new to me.
818
01:13:24,245 --> 01:13:28,106
But you consider yourself
politically right-wing, conservative...
819
01:13:28,250 --> 01:13:32,514
Yes. I could support what I found
on the Young Conservatives' home page,
820
01:13:32,675 --> 01:13:38,912
but I might not get along
with what they do individually.
821
01:13:39,021 --> 01:13:45,160
I'd put it this way: maybe in right-wing
conservative or nationalistic parties,
822
01:13:45,322 --> 01:13:51,307
the percentage of homophobic members
might be a little bit higher.
823
01:13:51,824 --> 01:13:55,729
But there are anti-gay members
of the left-wing PDS, of the liberal SPD,
824
01:13:55,882 --> 01:13:58,815
and no doubt,
there are Greens who can't stand gays.
825
01:13:59,165 --> 01:14:07,699
Let's not pretend that anti-gay feeling
is a conservative-nationalistic idiosyncrasy.
826
01:14:09,542 --> 01:14:12,479
For me you're just a perverted swine
827
01:14:12,810 --> 01:14:16,136
Your kind sticks it in from behind
828
01:14:16,364 --> 01:14:19,354
You've got no interest in the female race
829
01:14:19,498 --> 01:14:22,776
I'll tell you what you are right to your face
830
01:14:23,164 --> 01:14:28,544
Germany isn't alone
when it comes to gays in the radical right.
831
01:14:28,715 --> 01:14:30,899
Look at Holland...
832
01:14:31,170 --> 01:14:36,514
Germany is definitely not unique. In Netherlands
there were quite serious talks recently,
833
01:14:36,666 --> 01:14:40,927
that the leader of most significant
rightwing-populist powers was gay.
834
01:14:41,082 --> 01:14:45,804
And as far as my research goes,
he never tried to hide it.
835
01:14:45,919 --> 01:14:47,860
(J�rg Haider,
FP� - Austrian Freedom Party)
836
01:14:47,970 --> 01:14:51,057
When Haider comes, order prevails.
There's justice in the land,
837
01:14:51,217 --> 01:14:55,635
and all the things that are wrong
will be mucked out!
838
01:14:55,738 --> 01:14:59,390
The city is boiling over
with the rumor that Haider is gay.
839
01:14:59,778 --> 01:15:06,396
Anyone who is here illegally and is caught
stealing, housebreaking or robbing
840
01:15:06,513 --> 01:15:12,044
shouldn't have any rights in Austria
and should be thrown out immediately!
841
01:15:15,786 --> 01:15:18,558
A right-wing politician who refuses to age,
842
01:15:18,768 --> 01:15:24,677
surrounded by 20 dashing young men
who all shop at Donna Karen:
843
01:15:24,829 --> 01:15:27,567
sooner or later you start to wonder.
844
01:15:27,746 --> 01:15:34,581
In England it's an open secret
that segments of the skinhead scene are gay.
845
01:15:35,004 --> 01:15:41,853
Many in the right-wing music scene
are openly gay and celebrate fetishism.
846
01:15:42,046 --> 01:15:47,027
Many young neo-Nazis know that,
and for them,
847
01:15:47,128 --> 01:15:50,794
right extremism is a comfortable way
to live out their fetish.
848
01:15:52,462 --> 01:15:56,149
The AIDS plague among you rages and blows
849
01:15:56,266 --> 01:15:59,332
It turns you queens into orphans and widows
850
01:15:59,472 --> 01:16:02,761
The homo at his orgies, feeling good today,
851
01:16:02,955 --> 01:16:05,276
Finds himself tomorrow lying in his grave
852
01:16:05,407 --> 01:16:12,743
("Normal, not gay!
NPD now")
853
01:16:12,853 --> 01:16:16,727
I found it a bit stupid of the NPD:
"Normal, not gay!"
854
01:16:16,857 --> 01:16:22,087
Gay is also somehow normal. But if
they'd asked me to put up such posters,
855
01:16:22,269 --> 01:16:23,912
I wouldn't have said no.
856
01:16:24,493 --> 01:16:27,562
Perverse & abnormal:
gay engagement rings
857
01:16:27,728 --> 01:16:30,764
Perverse & abnormal:
two men marrying
858
01:16:30,974 --> 01:16:32,309
Perverse & abnormal:
859
01:16:32,497 --> 01:16:34,392
getting children by adoption
860
01:16:34,523 --> 01:16:35,959
Perverse & abnormal!
861
01:16:36,076 --> 01:16:37,716
How about castration?
862
01:16:37,964 --> 01:16:39,574
What do you think of gay Nazis?
863
01:16:39,750 --> 01:16:43,284
-I have no esteem for Nazis,
gay or straight.
864
01:16:43,391 --> 01:16:45,872
(Klaus Wowereit,
reigning mayor of Berlin)
865
01:16:46,013 --> 01:16:48,551
It's one of the great challenges
to our society
866
01:16:48,685 --> 01:16:50,709
that some young people
have learned nothing from history.
867
01:16:50,818 --> 01:16:57,172
We thought the problem was the old generation,
and it would die with them. Not so.
868
01:16:57,333 --> 01:17:02,838
There are still anti-semites,
still homophobes in our society.
869
01:17:03,104 --> 01:17:06,090
Whether they're gay or not
is beside the point.
870
01:17:06,316 --> 01:17:09,249
See how much we hate you
871
01:17:09,492 --> 01:17:11,230
There's no doubt about it
872
01:17:11,417 --> 01:17:12,912
We want you out of Germany
873
01:17:13,092 --> 01:17:14,966
Now's the time to shout it
874
01:17:15,096 --> 01:17:16,387
Go to the jungle where you ought to be
875
01:17:16,513 --> 01:17:19,566
You'll like screwing monkeys in the trees
876
01:17:19,758 --> 01:17:24,942
Top leaders of right-wing extremism
in Germany were gay in the past.
877
01:17:25,101 --> 01:17:30,979
Some leaders are gay now.
I'd say that of the present-day militants,
878
01:17:31,147 --> 01:17:35,831
of the classic neo-Nazis,
between 10% and 15% are gay.
879
01:17:35,964 --> 01:17:39,260
Perverse & abnormal!
Perverse & abnormal...
880
01:17:39,451 --> 01:17:42,647
Perverse & abnormal!
Perverse & abnormal...
80878
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