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1
00:02:21,017 --> 00:02:23,478
If I don't draw for a while, I get really crazy.
2
00:02:23,561 --> 00:02:28,233
I start feeling really, like,
depressed and suicidal if I don't get to draw.
3
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,695
But then some nights when I'm drawing,
I feel suicidal too, so —
4
00:02:32,779 --> 00:02:34,781
What are you trying to get at in your work?
5
00:02:34,864 --> 00:02:36,783
Jesus.
6
00:02:38,409 --> 00:02:39,911
I don't know.
7
00:02:41,538 --> 00:02:45,166
I don't work in terms of conscious messages.
I can't do that.
8
00:02:45,250 --> 00:02:48,586
It has to be something that I'm
revealing to myself while I'm doing it...
9
00:02:48,670 --> 00:02:50,588
which is hard to explain.
10
00:02:50,672 --> 00:02:53,925
Which means that while I'm doing it,
I don't know exactly what it's about.
11
00:02:54,008 --> 00:02:57,345
You just have to have the —
the courage or the —
12
00:02:57,428 --> 00:02:58,888
to take that chance, you know.
13
00:02:58,972 --> 00:03:02,058
What's gonna come out?
What's coming out of this?
14
00:03:03,226 --> 00:03:05,144
I enjoy drawing. That's all.
15
00:03:05,228 --> 00:03:08,690
It's a deeply ingrained habit.
It's all because of my brother Charles.
16
00:03:11,192 --> 00:03:14,863
Hello, Mother?
I'm in Philadelphia.
17
00:03:14,946 --> 00:03:20,410
I'm gonna give a talk at the —
at the art school downtown tomorrow.
18
00:03:20,493 --> 00:03:24,038
So Terry and this film crew
are here with me.
19
00:03:24,122 --> 00:03:28,501
So, um, they'd like to come over
and drop me off there...
20
00:03:28,585 --> 00:03:32,213
and talk to — possibly to Charles...
21
00:03:32,297 --> 00:03:35,925
about maybe filming him
if you're not up —
22
00:03:36,009 --> 00:03:37,927
He doesn't wanna do it?
23
00:03:38,011 --> 00:03:39,512
Hmm. Okay.
24
00:03:41,055 --> 00:03:43,099
All right.
25
00:03:43,182 --> 00:03:46,394
That's okay. Doesn't matter.
26
00:03:47,979 --> 00:03:51,107
No, if you don't want him to,
I certainly won't — not gonna —
27
00:03:51,190 --> 00:03:53,651
Okay.
28
00:03:53,735 --> 00:03:55,737
All right. Bye.
29
00:03:59,324 --> 00:04:01,910
Well, that's that.
30
00:04:09,959 --> 00:04:12,003
I, uh, start with this one...
31
00:04:12,086 --> 00:04:16,049
because it's most probably the thing
that I'm most well known for in the world.
32
00:04:16,174 --> 00:04:21,179
And you could see it for a long time
on truck mud flaps.
33
00:04:21,262 --> 00:04:23,765
I don't know why it caught
the popular imagination.
34
00:04:23,848 --> 00:04:27,602
It caused me nothing but headaches
for 10 years after I drew it.
35
00:04:27,685 --> 00:04:31,147
Lawsuits and I.R.S. problems.
It was a nightmare.
36
00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:33,775
Just because of this stupid
"Keep on Truckin'."
37
00:04:33,858 --> 00:04:37,236
So don't anybody ever come to me
and say, "Hey, R. Keep on truckin'."
38
00:04:38,863 --> 00:04:41,491
This is probably the next thing
I'm most well known for.
39
00:04:41,574 --> 00:04:44,786
I'm just trying to, you know,
hook you into the way I am here.
40
00:04:44,869 --> 00:04:46,788
This sold millions of copies.
41
00:04:46,871 --> 00:04:51,918
I got $600 from CBS Records in 1968.
42
00:04:52,001 --> 00:04:54,879
And they kept my artwork.
They stole my artwork.
43
00:04:54,963 --> 00:04:57,632
Those... bastards.
44
00:04:57,715 --> 00:05:03,388
And I heard recently that the original of this
sold at Sotheby's for $21,000.
45
00:05:06,474 --> 00:05:09,811
This is the third thing
I'm the most well known for...
46
00:05:09,894 --> 00:05:13,147
because this was made into
a major full-length animated cartoon...
47
00:05:13,231 --> 00:05:16,943
which was an embarrassment to me
for the rest of my life.
48
00:05:17,026 --> 00:05:19,320
And I have to say
I had nothing to do with the cartoon.
49
00:05:19,404 --> 00:05:23,157
I didn't want them to do it.
I thought they were schlockmeisters.
50
00:05:23,241 --> 00:05:25,159
And they just rolled right over me.
51
00:05:25,243 --> 00:05:29,455
So I had this character killed
in a later story I did.
52
00:05:29,539 --> 00:05:33,001
I had a female ostrich
stab him in the head with an ice pick.
53
00:05:36,337 --> 00:05:38,006
When I first met him, he never talked.
54
00:05:38,089 --> 00:05:40,299
He just drew the whole time.
He was, like, catatonic...
55
00:05:40,383 --> 00:05:42,927
and the only voice he had was his pen.
56
00:05:43,011 --> 00:05:45,346
He was very productive,
but he was, like, really —
57
00:05:45,430 --> 00:05:47,432
My mother thought he was retarded
when she met him.
58
00:05:47,515 --> 00:05:49,642
She said, you know,
"Some people like cripples.
59
00:05:49,726 --> 00:05:52,979
Some people like retards." What could I say?
60
00:05:53,062 --> 00:05:55,690
She thought I was a real creep
when she first met me.
61
00:05:55,773 --> 00:05:57,859
But soon as we lived
in one place for a long time —
62
00:05:57,942 --> 00:06:00,611
he's known the same people for a long time —
he's more comfortable.
63
00:06:00,695 --> 00:06:02,613
He's a little bit more communicative.
64
00:06:02,697 --> 00:06:05,116
But still, you know, he clams up.
65
00:06:05,199 --> 00:06:08,870
He really gets stilted in his conversation
around anybody he doesn't know really well.
66
00:06:08,953 --> 00:06:11,247
That's why I'm such
an exciting subject for a movie.
67
00:06:11,330 --> 00:06:13,082
Yeah, right.
68
00:06:20,131 --> 00:06:21,591
Watch out with those weights.
69
00:06:21,674 --> 00:06:24,052
Don't hit me with those things.
70
00:06:24,135 --> 00:06:26,679
Don't go behind me.
71
00:06:26,763 --> 00:06:28,681
These rich rednecks
have moved out here...
72
00:06:28,765 --> 00:06:32,393
and built their dream homes
on top of every single hill.
73
00:06:32,477 --> 00:06:36,564
There used to be nothing over here,
and then these people bought this property —
74
00:06:36,647 --> 00:06:38,941
- Shh. They might hear you.
- and built this house.
75
00:06:39,025 --> 00:06:40,943
- Shh. Not too loud.
- Right above our house.
76
00:06:41,027 --> 00:06:43,946
So that it looks right into Robert's studio.
77
00:06:44,030 --> 00:06:47,784
- Quiet.
- I don't care if they hear me.
78
00:06:47,867 --> 00:06:50,262
Couldn't be any ruder than them
putting their house right above mine.
79
00:06:50,286 --> 00:06:52,288
- Tone down.
- What do I care?
80
00:06:53,706 --> 00:06:57,251
I guess not. Since we're moving to France,
what do you care?
81
00:06:57,335 --> 00:06:59,545
Now they have a plan
to widen this road...
82
00:06:59,629 --> 00:07:01,881
and put it right through
where these trees are.
83
00:07:01,964 --> 00:07:04,592
There was a big "X" here
that the surveyors sprayed on here...
84
00:07:04,675 --> 00:07:06,594
and I erased it the other day.
85
00:07:06,677 --> 00:07:10,473
And I took out their sticks
from the other side of the road over there.
86
00:07:10,556 --> 00:07:15,561
They're gonna widen this road and take a big chunk
of land out of that side with all these trees...
87
00:07:15,645 --> 00:07:17,814
and put 12 dream homes back in there.
88
00:07:17,897 --> 00:07:20,834
Me and Aline decided we would
chain ourselves to these oak trees over here...
89
00:07:20,858 --> 00:07:22,568
if they try and take 'em out.
90
00:07:22,652 --> 00:07:25,947
Look. Our house is so humble.
It's nestled against a hill.
91
00:07:26,030 --> 00:07:27,657
- It's tasteful.
- It's tasteful.
92
00:07:27,740 --> 00:07:30,701
All these other houses are orientated
to look down at our place...
93
00:07:30,785 --> 00:07:34,705
because it's like a backdrop for their
air-conditioned nightmare houses.
94
00:07:34,789 --> 00:07:36,999
Each hilltop can view each other hilltop.
95
00:07:37,083 --> 00:07:38,417
The schmucks.
96
00:07:50,388 --> 00:07:55,309
I'm drawing some portraits of girls that I had
crushes on in high school in Milford, Delaware.
97
00:07:55,393 --> 00:07:57,562
This one I'm drawing now is Winona Newhouse...
98
00:07:57,645 --> 00:08:00,773
affectionately known among the boys
as "The Shelf "...
99
00:08:00,857 --> 00:08:03,860
'cause she had this,
like, phenomenal rear shelf.
100
00:08:03,943 --> 00:08:06,320
She was nice, too, actually.
She was kind to me.
101
00:08:08,531 --> 00:08:11,701
This one here — Naomi Wilson —
is this cross-eyed farm girl...
102
00:08:11,784 --> 00:08:13,661
that wore homemade clothes to school.
103
00:08:13,744 --> 00:08:17,415
I secretly had a crush on her.
I was very sexually attracted to her.
104
00:08:17,498 --> 00:08:20,668
And of course you never dare
admit it openly...
105
00:08:20,751 --> 00:08:24,422
that you liked this funky girl
that had B.O. and hairy legs.
106
00:08:26,299 --> 00:08:29,468
And this Jean Strahle — I liked her too.
She was also considered a dork.
107
00:08:29,552 --> 00:08:32,680
I remember she was kind of a bookwormy type
that talked with a lisp.
108
00:08:32,763 --> 00:08:34,599
Shapely, powerful legs.
109
00:08:34,682 --> 00:08:36,726
I never actually had any contact
with these girls...
110
00:08:36,809 --> 00:08:39,687
except I used to play footsie with this one.
111
00:08:39,770 --> 00:08:42,690
Ah, where are they now?
112
00:08:42,773 --> 00:08:44,984
It was 30 years ago. Thirty years ago.
113
00:08:45,067 --> 00:08:48,571
They're all middle-aged housewives now.
Jesus, what a thought.
114
00:08:50,323 --> 00:08:52,241
Winona.
115
00:08:52,325 --> 00:08:55,912
I wish she was here now —
the 17-year-old Winona —
116
00:08:55,995 --> 00:08:58,748
instead of this film crew.
117
00:09:07,965 --> 00:09:10,110
When I listen to old music,
it's one of the few times...
118
00:09:10,134 --> 00:09:13,512
when I actually have
a kind of a love for humanity.
119
00:09:13,596 --> 00:09:17,600
You hear the best part of the soul
of the common people, you know.
120
00:09:17,683 --> 00:09:23,522
It's their way of expressing their connection
to eternity or whatever you want to call it.
121
00:09:23,606 --> 00:09:25,608
Modern music doesn't have that.
122
00:09:25,691 --> 00:09:29,946
It's a calamitous loss that people can't
express themselves that way anymore.
123
00:09:59,350 --> 00:10:02,853
♪ The last kind word ♪
124
00:10:02,937 --> 00:10:07,275
♪ I heard my daddy say ♪
125
00:10:07,358 --> 00:10:13,739
♪ Lord, the last kind word
I heard my daddy say ♪
126
00:10:16,909 --> 00:10:20,246
♪ I went to the depot ♪
127
00:10:20,329 --> 00:10:24,542
♪ I looked up at the stars ♪
128
00:10:24,625 --> 00:10:27,920
♪ Cried, some train don't come ♪
129
00:10:28,004 --> 00:10:30,798
♪ There'll be some walking done ♪
130
00:10:33,843 --> 00:10:37,263
♪ My mama told me ♪
131
00:10:37,346 --> 00:10:41,350
♪ Just before she died ♪
132
00:10:41,434 --> 00:10:45,521
♪ Lord, precious daughter ♪
133
00:10:45,604 --> 00:10:47,648
♪ Don't you be so wild ♪
134
00:10:50,651 --> 00:10:54,030
♪ When you see me comin' ♪
135
00:10:54,113 --> 00:10:58,284
♪ Look 'cross the rich man's field ♪
136
00:10:58,367 --> 00:11:01,746
♪ If I don't bring you flour ♪
137
00:11:01,829 --> 00:11:04,582
♪ I'll bring you bolted meal ♪
138
00:11:24,769 --> 00:11:27,938
♪ What you do to me, baby ♪
139
00:11:28,022 --> 00:11:32,151
♪ It never gets out of me ♪
140
00:11:32,234 --> 00:11:35,446
♪ I may not see you ♪
141
00:11:35,529 --> 00:11:38,407
♪ After I cross the deep-blue sea ♪
142
00:11:57,468 --> 00:12:00,888
So I guess, late 1948,
when I was about five years old...
143
00:12:00,971 --> 00:12:03,265
we moved to this section of Philadelphia.
144
00:12:03,349 --> 00:12:06,352
This is this project
that we lived in right here.
145
00:12:06,435 --> 00:12:09,897
I can't remember which of these places we lived in.
They all look the same.
146
00:12:11,023 --> 00:12:13,067
Jesus. It's grim here.
147
00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:16,570
Oh, my God. This is where
we used to go to the market right here.
148
00:12:16,654 --> 00:12:19,407
There was a little dime store
that sold toys there.
149
00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:23,911
We used to buy candy and stuff in there.
And comic books.
150
00:12:23,994 --> 00:12:28,582
Also, we — just the three brothers,
me and Charles and Maxon —
hung around together a lot.
151
00:12:28,666 --> 00:12:33,629
We used to rummage around
this dump sometimes looking for stuff.
152
00:12:33,712 --> 00:12:37,091
One time, my brother Charles
brought this thing back from the dump.
153
00:12:37,174 --> 00:12:41,595
It was this beautiful wooden truck —
like an ice cream truck made out of wood.
154
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,723
I wanted that thing really bad,
and he wouldn't let me touch it or anything.
155
00:12:44,807 --> 00:12:46,976
He was real spiteful that way.
156
00:12:47,059 --> 00:12:49,019
So I made a big fuss,
and I told my mother.
157
00:12:49,103 --> 00:12:51,647
She said, "Charles, let him play with that
when you're through."
158
00:12:51,730 --> 00:12:53,441
Then he said, "Okay."
159
00:12:53,524 --> 00:12:55,502
So about 15 minutes later,
he came in the house and said...
160
00:12:55,526 --> 00:12:58,154
"Okay, Robert, I'm through with it.
You can play with it now."
161
00:12:58,237 --> 00:13:02,741
So I ran outside, and he had smashed it
to smithereens against the wall of the house.
162
00:13:18,841 --> 00:13:21,051
So, Charles, you read any good books lately?
163
00:13:23,179 --> 00:13:25,097
I guess I have. I don't know.
164
00:13:27,057 --> 00:13:28,726
You seem to be kind of, like...
165
00:13:28,809 --> 00:13:31,312
recycling a lot of these books you've read.
166
00:13:31,395 --> 00:13:34,106
- What do you mean by recycling?
- Like, you're kind of reading —
167
00:13:34,190 --> 00:13:37,070
I mean, you read 'em all 20 years ago.
Now you're reading them all again.
168
00:13:37,109 --> 00:13:40,613
I'm reading them again, yeah.
169
00:13:40,696 --> 00:13:42,656
I do that because there's nothing else to do.
170
00:13:42,740 --> 00:13:46,035
You've read 'em all.
You ever read anything new?
171
00:13:46,118 --> 00:13:50,414
- I haven't read Kant yet or Hegel.
- Do you have any interest in that kind of stuff?
172
00:13:50,498 --> 00:13:53,751
Maybe I'll eventually get around
to reading them. I don't know.
173
00:13:53,834 --> 00:13:56,295
You read any recent writers?
174
00:13:56,378 --> 00:13:59,673
- Not really, no.
- Not interested in them?
175
00:13:59,757 --> 00:14:03,010
Most of them aren't that good.
Most of them aren't that interesting.
176
00:14:03,093 --> 00:14:06,347
They're not nearly as interesting
as the old Victorian writers...
177
00:14:06,430 --> 00:14:10,726
of the late 19th century.
178
00:14:10,809 --> 00:14:15,981
I always kind of envied your life in a way,
'cause my life has become so hectic and —
179
00:14:16,065 --> 00:14:18,859
Why? Because I was so detached
from the human race?
180
00:14:18,943 --> 00:14:20,861
Is that one of the reasons
why you envy me?
181
00:14:20,945 --> 00:14:22,988
This cloistered environment
with your books and —
182
00:14:23,072 --> 00:14:26,200
Believe me, it's nothing to envy.
183
00:14:28,702 --> 00:14:31,997
Charles is the one that started
this whole comic thing in the family.
184
00:14:32,081 --> 00:14:35,251
He was completely obsessed with comics
when we were kids...
185
00:14:35,334 --> 00:14:37,920
and had absolutely
no other normal kid interests.
186
00:14:38,003 --> 00:14:41,465
He wasn't interested in toys or games.
He didn't play sports.
187
00:14:41,549 --> 00:14:44,927
He didn't do anything but read comics,
draw comics...
188
00:14:45,010 --> 00:14:47,221
think comics and talk 'em.
189
00:14:47,304 --> 00:14:51,225
I mean, I liked drawing, but I have other
drawing interests besides comics.
190
00:14:51,308 --> 00:14:54,812
I like to draw realistic scenes
and, you know...
191
00:14:54,895 --> 00:14:57,481
just pictures of buildings and cars and stuff.
192
00:14:57,565 --> 00:14:59,925
He wasn't interested in that at all.
It was only the comics.
193
00:14:59,984 --> 00:15:03,195
This is the earliest one
that still exists that I have.
194
00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:05,531
Charles drew this one.
195
00:15:05,614 --> 00:15:09,118
That's supposed to be me, and that's him.
196
00:15:10,244 --> 00:15:13,080
He made me feel absolutely worthless
if I wasn't drawing comics.
197
00:15:13,163 --> 00:15:16,458
I don't think I would've done that.
I don't think I was as far gone as that.
198
00:15:16,542 --> 00:15:18,252
It was, like, insidious.
199
00:15:18,335 --> 00:15:21,589
Maybe I was just unconsciously
imitating the old man.
200
00:15:23,674 --> 00:15:25,593
What was he like when you were growing up?
201
00:15:25,676 --> 00:15:28,679
What, my father?
He was an overbearing tyrant.
202
00:15:28,762 --> 00:15:31,265
Yes, he was.
203
00:15:31,348 --> 00:15:35,811
Maybe I was unconsciously imitating him
when I forced you to draw comic books.
204
00:15:38,188 --> 00:15:41,775
There's still a kind of sibling rivalry
going on between me and Robert...
205
00:15:41,859 --> 00:15:44,862
like there was when we were little kids
and he was still living at home.
206
00:15:44,945 --> 00:15:49,617
I think it's — I think, basically, that Robert
and I are still competing with each other.
207
00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:54,705
It's, like, when I'm drawing comics, I still think
of Charles's approval when I'm drawing...
208
00:15:54,788 --> 00:15:56,582
and whether or not he's gonna like 'em.
209
00:15:56,665 --> 00:15:59,460
Charles had everybody drawing comics
in the family.
210
00:16:00,461 --> 00:16:03,130
The Animal Town Publishing Company.
211
00:16:03,213 --> 00:16:05,716
That was a kind of club we had
as little kids...
212
00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:08,385
where we sat around and talked about comics.
213
00:16:08,469 --> 00:16:10,471
I was usually the president...
214
00:16:10,554 --> 00:16:13,307
and Robert was usually the vice president.
215
00:16:13,390 --> 00:16:16,101
Carol was usually the secretary.
216
00:16:16,185 --> 00:16:19,480
And Sandy was the treasurer,
and Maxon was the supply boy.
217
00:16:24,401 --> 00:16:26,362
And he still resents that.
218
00:16:26,445 --> 00:16:30,699
He still resents the fact that we imposed
the role of supply boy on him.
219
00:16:50,260 --> 00:16:52,221
Max Crumb in Room 310?
220
00:17:03,524 --> 00:17:05,317
Maxon was the scapegoat in the family.
221
00:17:05,401 --> 00:17:07,111
Oh, don't talk about it.
222
00:17:07,194 --> 00:17:09,154
There was five kids...
223
00:17:09,238 --> 00:17:11,699
and he was definitely
on the bottom of the heap.
224
00:17:11,782 --> 00:17:14,201
Well, just to explain
is that we had these meetings...
225
00:17:14,284 --> 00:17:16,995
for this club that Charles
put together called the —
226
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,415
Animal Town Comics Club.
227
00:17:19,498 --> 00:17:21,875
Yeah, it had something to do
with comics and all that stuff.
228
00:17:21,959 --> 00:17:27,131
Everybody had their different job — a secretary
and a president and a vice president.
229
00:17:27,214 --> 00:17:31,051
I was supply boy.
230
00:17:31,135 --> 00:17:34,513
I got it a little more heavy, you know,
direct than Robert did or something.
231
00:17:34,596 --> 00:17:38,475
It was the whole thing.
It was this incredible crazy sibling thing...
232
00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:41,395
between me and Charles and Robert
up in this little room upstairs.
233
00:17:41,478 --> 00:17:44,278
And the whole rest of the world
didn't know what the fuck was going on.
234
00:17:44,356 --> 00:17:48,902
It's like these three primordial monkeys
working it out in the trees.
235
00:17:48,986 --> 00:17:53,407
Me and Maxon slept in the same bed together
until we were 16 or something.
236
00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:57,119
Very intimate, you know, close situation.
237
00:18:02,791 --> 00:18:05,461
Charles was real inspired by the Disney movie...
238
00:18:05,544 --> 00:18:08,046
where Robert Newton plays
Long John Silver.
239
00:18:08,130 --> 00:18:12,593
After we saw it on TV in 1955,
we started playing pirates.
240
00:18:12,676 --> 00:18:15,929
You know, like normal kids do.
We'd go out and pretend —
241
00:18:16,013 --> 00:18:19,349
We made this ship out of
an old refrigerator carton and everything.
242
00:18:20,517 --> 00:18:24,354
Charles would walk around town
dressed up like Long John Silver.
243
00:18:24,438 --> 00:18:27,357
He had this old coat of my mother's,
this long green coat.
244
00:18:27,441 --> 00:18:30,235
And he made himself a three-cornered hat
out of some woman's hat.
245
00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:34,406
He had a crutch, and he'd tie up his leg
and go around town that way.
246
00:18:34,490 --> 00:18:39,244
I didn't realize till years later how fixated
Charles really was on this Treasure Island thing.
247
00:18:39,328 --> 00:18:44,124
This thing dominated our play and our fantasy
for six or seven years after that.
248
00:18:44,208 --> 00:18:46,960
We drew these comics about Treasure Island...
249
00:18:47,044 --> 00:18:49,463
and it became this real baroque,
elaborate thing...
250
00:18:49,546 --> 00:18:53,091
way beyond the original Disney film.
251
00:18:53,175 --> 00:18:55,594
This is one of Charles's.
252
00:18:55,677 --> 00:18:57,513
This is one of our two-man comics...
253
00:18:57,596 --> 00:19:00,724
in which he would draw some of the characters
and I would draw some of them.
254
00:19:00,808 --> 00:19:02,935
We'd have them interact with each other.
255
00:19:03,018 --> 00:19:06,647
That was also a great school
of cartooning for me —
256
00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:10,776
was having to come up with
clever retorts to him.
257
00:19:10,859 --> 00:19:14,321
He was actually much cleverer
and funnier than I was.
258
00:19:14,404 --> 00:19:19,326
It actually got kind of tiresome,
but you had to do it. He was in charge.
259
00:19:19,409 --> 00:19:22,079
I had this very definite,
bad problem about Charles.
260
00:19:22,162 --> 00:19:24,206
Sometimes I think a lot of it
had to do with my —
261
00:19:24,289 --> 00:19:27,501
an overly morbid sensitivity to the guy
or something too.
262
00:19:27,584 --> 00:19:31,380
As well as his natural affinity
to get in there and profit off it.
263
00:19:31,463 --> 00:19:33,674
Robert, of course,
was somewhat of a middleman.
264
00:19:33,757 --> 00:19:36,385
It had this way of, like, restricting...
265
00:19:36,468 --> 00:19:40,305
or causing this terrible self-consciousness
and restriction in me as a kid.
266
00:19:40,389 --> 00:19:42,516
I was morbidly modest about my body.
267
00:19:42,599 --> 00:19:44,518
Sex was, like, completely removed.
268
00:19:44,601 --> 00:19:47,980
When it became time for me
to become sexually aware...
269
00:19:48,063 --> 00:19:51,900
when I was in puberty,
sex was nowhere near my life.
270
00:19:51,984 --> 00:19:54,152
- Just absolutely nothing to do with it.
- Repressed.
271
00:19:54,236 --> 00:19:58,282
I was so heavily repressed, naturally
I had a feeling that's why the seizures started.
272
00:19:58,365 --> 00:20:02,494
I have these seizures — A seizure's like
a point where your behavior becomes —
273
00:20:02,578 --> 00:20:06,623
I'd have to get into the whole sex trip
which is an awful involved topic.
274
00:20:06,707 --> 00:20:11,378
That's all I thought about when I was
in my late teens and early 20s — was sex.
275
00:20:11,461 --> 00:20:15,716
And I masturbated
about four or five times a week.
276
00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:18,010
How frequently did you —
I don't masturbate anymore.
277
00:20:18,093 --> 00:20:20,929
My sexual desires are completely dead now.
278
00:20:21,013 --> 00:20:24,349
Like I told you the other night,
I can't even get an erection anymore.
279
00:20:24,433 --> 00:20:27,644
Oh, my God.
280
00:20:27,728 --> 00:20:31,982
I don't know whether it's one thing,
or maybe it's a combination of things.
281
00:20:32,065 --> 00:20:36,111
Maybe it's a combination of the medication
and the lack of external stimulation.
282
00:20:36,194 --> 00:20:38,947
And maybe approaching old age, too,
has something to do with it.
283
00:20:39,031 --> 00:20:40,949
All those things probably.
284
00:20:41,033 --> 00:20:45,078
I mean, you need some external stimulation
to keep up your interest.
285
00:20:45,162 --> 00:20:47,202
I don't know.
Now that my sexual desires are gone...
286
00:20:47,247 --> 00:20:49,750
I'm not so sure
I want them back again.
287
00:20:52,085 --> 00:20:53,629
My earliest sexual memories?
288
00:20:53,712 --> 00:20:56,423
Well —
289
00:20:56,506 --> 00:21:01,595
Actually, I remember being,
like, four years old and getting erections —
290
00:21:01,678 --> 00:21:05,015
I think it was my aunt or my mother's sister...
291
00:21:05,098 --> 00:21:08,393
and kind of humping her legs and her shoes
under the table.
292
00:21:08,477 --> 00:21:10,479
I remember going into my mother's closet —
293
00:21:10,562 --> 00:21:13,941
she had these cowboy boots
that she wore when it rained —
294
00:21:14,024 --> 00:21:15,943
and humping those in the closet.
295
00:21:17,569 --> 00:21:19,947
And singing while I was doing it. Singing —
296
00:21:20,030 --> 00:21:22,866
♪ Jesus loves me
This I know ♪
297
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:25,410
♪ For the Bible tells me so ♪♪
298
00:21:28,538 --> 00:21:33,001
When I was about five or six,
I was sexually attracted to Bugs Bunny.
299
00:21:33,085 --> 00:21:38,507
And I cut out this Bugs Bunny off the cover
of a comic book and carried it around with me.
300
00:21:38,590 --> 00:21:42,678
I carried it around in my pocket
and took it out and looked at it periodically.
301
00:21:42,761 --> 00:21:45,973
It got all wrinkled up
from handling it so much...
302
00:21:46,056 --> 00:21:50,185
that I asked my mother to iron it
on the ironing board to flatten it out.
303
00:21:50,268 --> 00:21:52,771
And she did, and I was deeply disappointed...
304
00:21:52,854 --> 00:21:56,066
'cause it got all brown when she ironed it,
and brittle, and it crumbled apart.
305
00:21:57,693 --> 00:21:59,837
- What was it about Bugs Bunny
that got you excited?
- I don't know.
306
00:21:59,861 --> 00:22:04,074
I had this sexual attraction
to cute cartoon characters.
307
00:22:04,157 --> 00:22:07,786
You tell me. I don't know.
308
00:22:10,497 --> 00:22:14,167
That all changed when I turned 12
and I became fixated on Sheena.
309
00:22:17,421 --> 00:22:19,673
Sheena, Queen of the Jungle.
310
00:22:19,756 --> 00:22:22,592
A TV show around, like, '55, '56.
311
00:22:28,515 --> 00:22:30,851
I became totally obsessed with Sheena.
312
00:22:30,934 --> 00:22:34,271
I went to bed every night thinking about
the things I wanted to do with Sheena.
313
00:22:41,445 --> 00:22:44,698
Robert was very hung up on sex
when he was a little kid...
314
00:22:44,781 --> 00:22:47,034
even more so than I was.
315
00:22:47,117 --> 00:22:49,119
I was? Do you think so?
316
00:22:49,202 --> 00:22:53,623
Yeah. I think you were more inhibited
as a child than I was.
317
00:22:53,707 --> 00:22:55,625
Even sexually.
318
00:22:55,709 --> 00:23:01,339
I think you were more afraid of women
than I was, as a young person.
319
00:23:01,423 --> 00:23:03,800
When I was in high school,
I had a few dates with girls.
320
00:23:03,884 --> 00:23:08,138
When you were in high school,
you didn't have any dates at all with anybody.
321
00:23:08,221 --> 00:23:10,341
You were actually sort of good-looking
and everything.
322
00:23:11,266 --> 00:23:14,603
I was a handsome,
good-looking chap when I was a teenager.
323
00:23:14,686 --> 00:23:18,190
But there was just this something that was
wrong with my personality. I don't know.
324
00:23:18,273 --> 00:23:20,192
The teachers hated him. The kids hated him.
325
00:23:20,275 --> 00:23:25,072
High school was an absolute nightmare.
326
00:23:25,155 --> 00:23:27,449
I was the most unpopular kid
in the high school.
327
00:23:27,532 --> 00:23:29,201
Why?
328
00:23:29,284 --> 00:23:31,787
People were always picking on me
and beating me up...
329
00:23:31,870 --> 00:23:35,415
and the girls wouldn't have
anything to do with me.
330
00:23:35,499 --> 00:23:38,210
They treated me like I was
the scum of the earth.
331
00:23:39,336 --> 00:23:43,006
So, in this strip, I'm talking
all about my problems with women...
332
00:23:43,090 --> 00:23:46,051
starting with high school
where I learned a lot about women.
333
00:23:46,134 --> 00:23:49,387
Because there was this guy named Skutch —
this guy here —
334
00:23:49,471 --> 00:23:53,767
who was, like, the —
kind of this mean bully.
335
00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:57,896
But he was also very charming,
and all the girls liked him.
336
00:23:57,979 --> 00:24:02,275
He was the dreamboat,
but he was also a bully.
337
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:07,823
And my brother Charles was one of the guys
he singled out for particular attention.
338
00:24:07,906 --> 00:24:13,829
And he had this gang of flunkies that
hung around with him — this guy Skutch.
339
00:24:13,912 --> 00:24:16,206
I just remember this scene where they —
340
00:24:16,289 --> 00:24:19,626
Skutch punches out my brother
in the hallway at school.
341
00:24:19,709 --> 00:24:23,755
That was a very sad sight for me to see.
342
00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:26,883
Charles gave up trying to be popular
or have girlfriends or anything...
343
00:24:26,967 --> 00:24:31,304
after everybody saw that he couldn't
fight back and was beat up by Skutch.
344
00:24:31,388 --> 00:24:34,057
I've been living at home
since I graduated from high school.
345
00:24:34,141 --> 00:24:38,019
I made a few feeble attempts
along the way.
346
00:24:38,103 --> 00:24:41,731
In a funny way, you're no worse off
than people that are out there in the world...
347
00:24:41,815 --> 00:24:43,876
that have to deal
with the fuckin' world all the time.
348
00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:47,612
- You gotta take into consideration
the fact that I'm taking tranquilizers.
- That's true.
349
00:24:47,696 --> 00:24:51,491
- And that makes it a lot easier
than it would otherwise be —
- That's true.
350
00:24:51,575 --> 00:24:54,744
by taking these tranquilizers
and antidepressants.
351
00:24:54,828 --> 00:24:57,056
If it wasn't for them,
I'd probably go completely crazy...
352
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,291
living here at home with Mother.
353
00:25:01,168 --> 00:25:03,587
I have to walk on eggs when I'm around her.
354
00:25:03,670 --> 00:25:06,006
- Oh, yeah. You do.
- Yeah.
355
00:25:06,089 --> 00:25:08,466
You can't tell my mother
the absolute truth.
356
00:25:08,550 --> 00:25:10,969
She's in a heavy state of denial
about a lot of things.
357
00:25:11,052 --> 00:25:13,513
I don't think we should be
talking about this.
358
00:25:13,597 --> 00:25:16,349
- Where are my kitty cats?
- Also about our mother, she's —
359
00:25:16,433 --> 00:25:19,769
Oh, my God! What's that thing?
I've looked in the house, and they're gone.
360
00:25:19,853 --> 00:25:21,646
She doesn't like you to talk about her —
361
00:25:21,730 --> 00:25:23,440
- Charles!
- What?
362
00:25:23,523 --> 00:25:26,776
- There's a person in the hallway.
- What?
363
00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:29,863
- Fix that thing in the hallway.
- What thing?
364
00:25:29,946 --> 00:25:32,949
- The window.
- What's wrong with it?
365
00:25:33,033 --> 00:25:35,118
It's some film equipment or something.
366
00:25:35,202 --> 00:25:37,704
It's some kind of film equipment, Mother.
367
00:25:37,787 --> 00:25:41,082
- Where are my kitty cats?
- I don't know.
368
00:25:41,166 --> 00:25:42,935
Don't worry about it.
It's all gonna be out of here.
369
00:25:42,959 --> 00:25:46,087
It'll all be back to normal.
370
00:25:48,298 --> 00:25:50,300
- All the crap goin' on.
- Uh-oh.
371
00:25:50,383 --> 00:25:53,637
And here it shows all these girls
talking about how one of their friends...
372
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,390
got a date with Skutch
and how envious they all are.
373
00:25:57,474 --> 00:26:00,685
And this is how I felt about it.
374
00:26:00,769 --> 00:26:03,396
I'm a little bitter about it
as you can see here.
375
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,066
Then I show here how I thought
that most teenage boys...
376
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:08,610
are very cruel and aggressive
and everything like that...
377
00:26:08,693 --> 00:26:12,697
and if girls could see that I was more kind
and sensitive, they would like me more.
378
00:26:12,781 --> 00:26:15,659
They're kind of impressed
by the fact that I could draw, but —
379
00:26:15,742 --> 00:26:20,038
I couldn't understand why they liked
these cruel, aggressive guys and not me.
380
00:26:20,121 --> 00:26:23,291
'Cause I was more kind and sensitive
and everything more like them.
381
00:26:23,375 --> 00:26:27,420
I was more like them. I didn't realize that they
didn't want you to be like them, basically.
382
00:26:27,504 --> 00:26:30,757
I felt very hurt
and cruelly misunderstood...
383
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,093
because I considered myself
talented and intelligent.
384
00:26:33,176 --> 00:26:36,137
Yet I was not very attractive physically.
385
00:26:36,221 --> 00:26:39,975
But I didn't think those things really mattered.
It was what's inside that was important.
386
00:26:41,184 --> 00:26:45,522
When I was 13, 14 and trying to be
a normal teenager, I was really a jerk.
387
00:26:45,605 --> 00:26:48,733
I mean, just — I tried to, you know,
act like I thought they were acting.
388
00:26:48,817 --> 00:26:50,944
It just came out all wrong and weird.
389
00:26:51,027 --> 00:26:55,073
So then I just stopped completely
and just became a shadow...
390
00:26:55,156 --> 00:26:56,866
and I wasn't even there.
391
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:59,619
People weren't even aware
that I was, you know...
392
00:26:59,703 --> 00:27:02,247
in the — in the same world they were in.
393
00:27:02,330 --> 00:27:06,418
And that kind of freed me completely, because
I wasn't under those pressures to be normal.
394
00:27:06,501 --> 00:27:08,461
So I got interested in old-time music...
395
00:27:08,545 --> 00:27:11,131
and went to the black section of town,
knocking on doors...
396
00:27:11,214 --> 00:27:13,925
and looking for old records
and things like that...
397
00:27:14,009 --> 00:27:18,138
that would be unthinkable
if you were gonna be a normal teenager.
398
00:27:18,221 --> 00:27:22,142
Starting about age 17,
I started being driven by that obsession...
399
00:27:22,225 --> 00:27:25,186
that I'll go down in history
as a great artist.
400
00:27:25,270 --> 00:27:26,980
That'll be my revenge.
401
00:27:27,063 --> 00:27:30,817
This is my image celebrating Valentine's Day.
402
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,820
"February 13, 1962.
403
00:27:33,903 --> 00:27:37,240
"I decided to reject conforming
when society rejected me.
404
00:27:37,324 --> 00:27:40,160
"I've heard all that 'be yourself' stuff.
405
00:27:40,243 --> 00:27:42,871
"When I'm myself, people think I'm nuts.
406
00:27:42,954 --> 00:27:46,958
"Guess I'll have to be satisfied
with cats and old records.
407
00:27:47,042 --> 00:27:49,711
"Girls are just utterly out of my reach.
408
00:27:49,794 --> 00:27:51,713
They won't even let me draw them."
409
00:27:55,008 --> 00:27:57,886
Yeah, all that changed after I got famous.
410
00:28:09,147 --> 00:28:11,441
No, I absolutely —
I would love to pose for you.
411
00:28:11,524 --> 00:28:13,193
Oh, excellent. Excellent.
412
00:28:13,276 --> 00:28:15,713
Anytime you wanna come by and visit,
that would be really nice.
413
00:28:15,737 --> 00:28:17,447
Excellent.
414
00:28:17,530 --> 00:28:19,908
I always wanted to see you again, so —
415
00:28:29,334 --> 00:28:32,754
Some of the early Weirdo collages.
416
00:28:33,755 --> 00:28:38,259
And also some publications.
We managed to track them down.
417
00:29:16,172 --> 00:29:18,508
I think Crumb is —
Basically, he's the Brueghel...
418
00:29:18,591 --> 00:29:20,218
of the last half of the 20th century.
419
00:29:20,301 --> 00:29:22,061
There wasn't a Brueghel of the first half...
420
00:29:22,095 --> 00:29:23,680
but there is one of the last half...
421
00:29:23,763 --> 00:29:26,015
and that is Robert Crumb.
422
00:29:26,099 --> 00:29:31,020
Because he gives you
that tremendous kind of impaction...
423
00:29:31,104 --> 00:29:35,108
of lusting, suffering, crazed humanity...
424
00:29:35,191 --> 00:29:39,279
in all sorts of bizarre,
gargoyle-like allegorical forms.
425
00:29:39,362 --> 00:29:43,042
He's just got this very powerful imagination
which goes right over the top a lot of the time.
426
00:29:43,116 --> 00:29:45,118
But it very seldom lies.
427
00:29:45,201 --> 00:29:47,328
To me, he's Mr. Natural.
428
00:29:47,412 --> 00:29:51,040
He accepts women how they really are...
429
00:29:51,124 --> 00:29:53,460
and makes them even more beautiful
than they really —
430
00:29:53,543 --> 00:29:55,462
I mean, like that woman.
431
00:29:55,545 --> 00:30:01,259
I mean, she's really —
She's got energy and form and drive.
432
00:30:01,342 --> 00:30:03,303
These women —
you can't push these women around.
433
00:30:03,386 --> 00:30:04,971
They're not wimps.
434
00:30:05,054 --> 00:30:07,098
He gives power to women.
435
00:30:07,182 --> 00:30:10,351
He made it okay for me to have a butt.
436
00:30:10,435 --> 00:30:13,438
He did a drawing of me,
which I really liked a lot.
437
00:30:13,521 --> 00:30:15,231
It was really me.
438
00:30:15,315 --> 00:30:17,484
It showed my thighs as they really are.
439
00:30:17,567 --> 00:30:19,027
He helped me change my self-image.
440
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:21,571
I had felt so inadequate before.
441
00:30:21,654 --> 00:30:24,115
It was like I didn't know having a butt —
442
00:30:24,199 --> 00:30:26,159
Believe me, you're adequate.
443
00:30:26,242 --> 00:30:27,744
Oh, you're so adequate.
444
00:30:29,412 --> 00:30:32,624
I feel that Robert's work is one of the...
445
00:30:33,791 --> 00:30:38,505
most pertinent social portraits of an era...
446
00:30:38,588 --> 00:30:42,217
touching issues related to politics...
447
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:45,720
to sex, to drugs, to religion...
448
00:30:45,803 --> 00:30:49,182
um, to the fine arts.
449
00:30:49,265 --> 00:30:53,895
And I would say that Robert
is the Daumier of our time.
450
00:31:03,780 --> 00:31:06,074
I think he's a very remarkable artist indeed.
451
00:31:06,157 --> 00:31:10,370
The tradition that I see him belonging to
is essentially the one of, you know...
452
00:31:10,453 --> 00:31:13,456
graphic art as social protest,
social criticism...
453
00:31:13,540 --> 00:31:15,935
which, of course, has extremely long roots
and goes back to —
454
00:31:15,959 --> 00:31:17,877
There are elements of Goya in Crumb.
455
00:31:17,961 --> 00:31:21,756
Goya's sense of monstrosity
comes out in those...
456
00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:24,342
menacing bird-headed women
of Crumb's, for instance.
457
00:31:25,927 --> 00:31:29,764
- Robert. In front of all these people?
- In front of all these people.
458
00:31:29,847 --> 00:31:32,058
Robert!
459
00:31:32,141 --> 00:31:34,060
Down this way. Quick.
460
00:31:43,611 --> 00:31:46,155
Looks like the undergrounds are alive and well.
461
00:31:46,239 --> 00:31:47,532
A whole industry sprung up.
462
00:31:47,615 --> 00:31:50,368
They're still reprinting the early ones.
463
00:31:50,451 --> 00:31:51,869
Number two.
464
00:31:51,953 --> 00:31:53,663
Number four.
465
00:31:53,746 --> 00:31:56,499
God only knows how many of those
have been printed by now.
466
00:32:00,211 --> 00:32:02,797
Puke & Explode.
467
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,592
- What's this called?
- It's called Puke & Explode.
468
00:32:05,675 --> 00:32:07,760
- That's new. Who put that out?
- These kids today.
469
00:32:07,844 --> 00:32:10,096
I don't know about these kids today.
470
00:32:10,179 --> 00:32:13,433
So I guess you really started all this.
You created this whole thing.
471
00:32:13,516 --> 00:32:16,436
You're responsible.
472
00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:18,521
I don't like to take credit for that, Don.
473
00:32:18,605 --> 00:32:21,190
Some of this stuff, I know.
Yeah, nobody would, but, um —
474
00:32:23,401 --> 00:32:26,279
Hey, Robert, I'm a really big fan of yours.
475
00:32:26,362 --> 00:32:30,199
I'm wondering if there's any chance
I can get an autograph from you.
476
00:32:30,283 --> 00:32:33,536
I don't think so.
I don't believe in giving autographs.
477
00:32:35,913 --> 00:32:38,333
Okay, well. Thanks anyway.
478
00:32:40,376 --> 00:32:43,588
Have you, uh —
When are you actually moving?
479
00:32:43,671 --> 00:32:45,923
- Couple months.
- Couple months? Wow.
480
00:32:46,007 --> 00:32:48,801
France isn't, you know, perfect or anything...
481
00:32:48,885 --> 00:32:54,140
but it's just slightly less evil
than the United States, I think.
482
00:32:54,223 --> 00:32:56,225
But that's not why I'm moving, of course.
483
00:32:56,309 --> 00:32:59,395
Talk to my wife
if you want to know why I'm moving.
484
00:32:59,479 --> 00:33:02,607
We do have something here
that we wanted to show you though.
485
00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:04,400
- Oh, yeah?
- Yeah.
486
00:33:04,484 --> 00:33:07,236
From 1967 — rock concert poster.
487
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,072
- Extremely rare item.
- Yeah.
488
00:33:09,155 --> 00:33:12,158
It's my only rock concert poster I ever did.
489
00:33:12,241 --> 00:33:14,911
There's this legend
that I keep hearing all the time.
490
00:33:14,994 --> 00:33:16,496
People telling me, yeah...
491
00:33:16,579 --> 00:33:18,998
"Somebody told me you used to live
with the Grateful Dead...
492
00:33:19,082 --> 00:33:21,084
"down here in the Haight-Ashbury...
493
00:33:21,167 --> 00:33:24,337
and, you know, you hung around
with Jerry Garcia."
494
00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:28,257
I never had anything to do with those guys.
I hated that music.
495
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:32,512
I went to a couple of those rock concerts
and just fell asleep.
496
00:33:32,595 --> 00:33:35,390
It was completely boring,
that psychedelic music.
497
00:33:37,725 --> 00:33:40,770
I've got something for you.
I wanna tell you a little secret.
498
00:33:40,853 --> 00:33:42,772
It's called Om mani padme hum.
499
00:33:52,281 --> 00:33:55,326
This is where I get recognized more
than any other place in the world...
500
00:33:55,410 --> 00:33:57,412
still, is on Haight Street.
501
00:33:57,495 --> 00:34:00,206
- It's amazing.
- I know. These are my people.
502
00:34:00,289 --> 00:34:02,458
Yeah.
503
00:34:02,542 --> 00:34:04,186
People come up to me and say,
"R. Crumb. Ah!"
504
00:34:04,210 --> 00:34:06,379
Sometimes some guy
will come and sit with me...
505
00:34:06,462 --> 00:34:08,923
and chew my ear off
about all his hopes and dreams.
506
00:34:09,006 --> 00:34:13,302
'Cause usually it's some, like,
broken-down hippie pest guy.
507
00:34:13,386 --> 00:34:16,806
You know. It's never a beautiful,
young 20-year-old girl or nothing.
508
00:34:17,974 --> 00:34:21,602
But it's just so interesting
to come down here and draw people.
509
00:34:21,686 --> 00:34:24,188
That's the main reason I come here,
just to watch people.
510
00:34:28,443 --> 00:34:32,071
This girl was sitting here one day.
Beautiful girl.
511
00:34:32,155 --> 00:34:33,781
And I drew this other girl.
512
00:34:33,865 --> 00:34:36,701
She came up and wanted the drawing,
so I cut it out, gave it to her.
513
00:34:36,784 --> 00:34:39,996
- Ah. Good way to meet girls.
- Right.
514
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:42,498
I drew this girl,
and she invited me to her house.
515
00:34:42,582 --> 00:34:45,042
- Wow.
- Unfortunately, she wasn't very attractive.
516
00:34:45,126 --> 00:34:47,044
You kept the picture, I see.
517
00:34:49,714 --> 00:34:52,967
You know, it's kind of ironic
that you're so identified with the '60s.
518
00:34:53,050 --> 00:34:58,139
But at the time, it didn't seem like you really
fit in with that whole flower child thing.
519
00:34:58,222 --> 00:34:59,932
God knows I tried.
520
00:35:00,016 --> 00:35:04,437
I used to come up here every day
and try and be one of them and —
521
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,106
My main motivation, of course,
was, you know...
522
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:09,442
to get some of that "free love" action...
523
00:35:09,525 --> 00:35:11,736
but I wasn't too good at it.
524
00:35:11,819 --> 00:35:13,780
People would ask, "Are you a narc"?
525
00:35:13,863 --> 00:35:15,948
They would move away from me
at the love-in.
526
00:35:16,032 --> 00:35:18,117
I looked the same as I do now, basically.
527
00:35:18,201 --> 00:35:22,371
Exactly. You're, in fact — You did have kind
of a costume, but it wasn't the same kind —
528
00:35:22,455 --> 00:35:24,165
It wasn't the right costume.
529
00:35:24,248 --> 00:35:26,959
I remember Janis Joplin
giving me this piece of advice.
530
00:35:27,043 --> 00:35:29,688
She said, "Crumb, what's the matter with you?
Don't you like girls?"
531
00:35:29,712 --> 00:35:31,732
I said, "Of course I like girls.
What do you think?"
532
00:35:31,756 --> 00:35:35,176
She said, "Well, look, just, you know,
let your hair grow long...
533
00:35:35,259 --> 00:35:38,846
"and get one of those satin billowy shirts,
a velvet jacket...
534
00:35:38,930 --> 00:35:41,224
"some bell bottoms and platform shoes.
535
00:35:41,307 --> 00:35:43,267
You'll do all right. You'll do okay."
536
00:35:43,351 --> 00:35:46,062
I just can't — I couldn't do that.
537
00:35:46,145 --> 00:35:48,439
The whole thing was just too —
too silly to me.
538
00:35:48,523 --> 00:35:50,233
I couldn't get with it, you know.
539
00:35:52,235 --> 00:35:54,237
Here's a real beautiful one.
540
00:35:55,571 --> 00:35:57,573
I should get —
541
00:35:58,741 --> 00:36:03,746
The work in this book — the art, the feelings —
it's what made me fall in love with Robert.
542
00:36:03,830 --> 00:36:07,208
The way he saw colors
and the way he saw women.
543
00:36:07,291 --> 00:36:11,546
When I was 17 years old,
I looked a lot like that.
544
00:36:11,629 --> 00:36:13,965
So I was what he had been drawing.
545
00:36:14,048 --> 00:36:17,218
I was the embodiment
of what he had been drawing for years.
546
00:36:17,301 --> 00:36:20,847
It's such a sweet, romantic vision of things.
547
00:36:20,930 --> 00:36:23,850
He did this book.
It took him, I think, a year.
548
00:36:23,933 --> 00:36:25,977
That was his life.
549
00:36:26,060 --> 00:36:29,939
And he had just finished the book,
like, days before we met.
550
00:36:30,022 --> 00:36:33,067
My parents were always fighting,
and I used to say I'm never getting married.
551
00:36:33,150 --> 00:36:36,028
My father said, "Eh, you'll marry
the first one that comes along."
552
00:36:36,112 --> 00:36:38,614
He was right.
553
00:36:38,698 --> 00:36:42,869
Robert always had a sketchbook
or two going and —
554
00:36:42,952 --> 00:36:45,454
Nothing — He was constantly drawing.
555
00:36:45,538 --> 00:36:48,124
If we were in a restaurant,
he'd draw on the place mat.
556
00:36:48,207 --> 00:36:50,626
If we were on the bus,
he'd draw on his bus ticket.
557
00:36:52,587 --> 00:36:57,049
I had this big change in 1965 and '66.
558
00:36:57,133 --> 00:37:00,386
And it was visionary, you know.
559
00:37:00,469 --> 00:37:05,683
Very powerful, kind of "knock you on your ass"
kind of visionary experience.
560
00:37:06,684 --> 00:37:11,063
This is my sketchbook for 1966
that covers that period.
561
00:37:11,147 --> 00:37:13,524
I took this very weird drug.
562
00:37:13,608 --> 00:37:17,320
Supposedly it was L.S.D.,
but it had a really weird effect...
563
00:37:17,403 --> 00:37:20,781
where it made my brain all fuzzy.
564
00:37:20,865 --> 00:37:22,617
This effect lasted for a couple of months.
565
00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:26,120
I started getting these images,
these kind of cartoon characters like this...
566
00:37:26,203 --> 00:37:29,332
that I'd never drawn before,
with these big shoes and everything.
567
00:37:29,415 --> 00:37:34,503
I let go of trying to have anything like
a coherent, fixed idea about what I was doing...
568
00:37:34,587 --> 00:37:40,009
and I started being able to draw
these stream-of-consciousness comic strips.
569
00:37:40,092 --> 00:37:42,261
Just kind of making up stuff.
570
00:37:42,345 --> 00:37:45,264
It didn't have to make any sense.
It could be — It could be stupid.
571
00:37:45,348 --> 00:37:47,350
It didn't make any difference.
572
00:37:47,433 --> 00:37:50,078
All the characters that I used
for the next several years, I thought up —
573
00:37:50,102 --> 00:37:53,064
all came to me during this period.
574
00:37:53,147 --> 00:37:55,566
These things fit into this vision I was having.
575
00:37:55,650 --> 00:38:01,364
It was a revelation of some seamy side
of America's subconscious.
576
00:38:01,447 --> 00:38:04,742
I remember, when I was drawing this,
there was this young girl there.
577
00:38:04,825 --> 00:38:07,286
She was like, "Oh, isn't that cute!"
578
00:38:07,370 --> 00:38:11,666
And to me, it was all like a horror show,
this whole thing.
579
00:38:11,749 --> 00:38:14,210
And she just thought it was really cute
and happy-looking.
580
00:38:14,293 --> 00:38:18,881
To me, it was just, like, a drawing
of the horror of America.
581
00:39:03,175 --> 00:39:07,888
There were all these hippie
underground papers starting up in '66, '67.
582
00:39:07,972 --> 00:39:09,890
Every town had one or two of 'em.
583
00:39:09,974 --> 00:39:14,937
They would print anything if it was related
to the psychedelic experience or the hippie ethic.
584
00:39:15,021 --> 00:39:19,692
So I started submitting
some of these L.S.D.-inspired comics...
585
00:39:19,775 --> 00:39:23,404
that I had been doing in my sketchbooks
to these papers, and they liked them.
586
00:39:23,487 --> 00:39:26,949
Then this guy came along who suggested
I do a whole issue of his paper.
587
00:39:27,033 --> 00:39:30,327
It was called Yarrowstalks.
So I did that, and that went over big.
588
00:39:30,411 --> 00:39:33,456
Then he said, "Why don't you just do
psychedelic comic books?
589
00:39:33,539 --> 00:39:35,166
And I'll publish them for you."
590
00:39:35,249 --> 00:39:39,503
So I set to work,
and I did two whole issues of Zap Comix.
591
00:40:54,829 --> 00:40:58,624
Crumb was incredibly exciting
and incredibly hot.
592
00:40:58,707 --> 00:41:01,127
There were just really a handful of us...
593
00:41:01,210 --> 00:41:05,297
doing this — this new form of comics.
594
00:41:05,381 --> 00:41:09,760
And what he was doing
was just more innovative...
595
00:41:09,844 --> 00:41:13,347
than what any of us had even thought of.
596
00:41:15,766 --> 00:41:19,228
It was fun to be a part of that
and to see Zap suddenly everywhere...
597
00:41:19,311 --> 00:41:23,440
from this concept of Robert's,
this fantasy of doing his own comic book...
598
00:41:23,524 --> 00:41:25,401
with a glossy cover and actually printed...
599
00:41:25,484 --> 00:41:29,822
to seeing it start turning up in all the windows
on Haight Street, windows around town...
600
00:41:29,905 --> 00:41:31,949
hearing people talk about it...
601
00:41:32,032 --> 00:41:35,619
having the other artists show up at
a certain point and wanting to be a part of it.
602
00:41:35,703 --> 00:41:37,621
It happened very quickly.
603
00:41:37,705 --> 00:41:40,374
It seems to me, in retrospect,
it happened in a matter of weeks.
604
00:42:02,855 --> 00:42:05,441
Crumb generously
gave the ownership of Zap...
605
00:42:05,524 --> 00:42:06,692
to all the artists.
606
00:42:06,775 --> 00:42:08,152
Basically, there was no editor.
607
00:42:08,235 --> 00:42:09,921
There was a certain point where it seemed...
608
00:42:09,945 --> 00:42:12,698
as though underground comics...
609
00:42:12,781 --> 00:42:15,409
could kind of get into the big time...
610
00:42:15,492 --> 00:42:19,872
and Crumb almost seemed reluctant
to push that sort of thing.
611
00:42:19,955 --> 00:42:21,957
They were offering him 100,000 bucks...
612
00:42:22,041 --> 00:42:24,543
just off the top of the bat...
613
00:42:24,627 --> 00:42:26,629
just to start talking.
614
00:42:26,712 --> 00:42:29,340
Robert turned it down in two seconds.
Actually, he turned it down.
615
00:42:29,423 --> 00:42:32,843
Aline screamed in the background,
"What are you doing, Robert? We need money."
616
00:42:32,927 --> 00:42:36,430
Forget it. I'm not going
on Saturday Night Live.
617
00:42:36,513 --> 00:42:38,724
The Rolling Stones
wanted me to do an album cover.
618
00:42:38,807 --> 00:42:42,102
There was a couple other deals like that.
I just don't know.
619
00:42:42,186 --> 00:42:44,266
This is not something you see every day
in America...
620
00:42:44,313 --> 00:42:46,565
where selling out
is kind of everybody's ambition.
621
00:42:46,649 --> 00:42:50,903
After about a year of recognition
and all the bullshit of fame and all that...
622
00:42:50,986 --> 00:42:52,571
I just said fuck it.
623
00:42:52,655 --> 00:42:57,785
And I started drawing the dark part
of myself again in the comics...
624
00:42:57,868 --> 00:42:59,870
which I'd always kept hidden before.
625
00:42:59,954 --> 00:43:03,457
I was used to what he had been doing...
626
00:43:03,540 --> 00:43:06,168
which was really quite sweet.
627
00:43:06,252 --> 00:43:11,840
Then he did this one that was just
incredibly hostile to women...
628
00:43:11,924 --> 00:43:13,842
very sexually hostile.
629
00:43:13,926 --> 00:43:17,096
I wasn't expecting it, and it was really —
630
00:43:17,179 --> 00:43:20,140
I was really shocked and just taken aback.
631
00:43:20,224 --> 00:43:22,142
And really just kind of like — whack!
632
00:43:22,226 --> 00:43:24,144
It's hard for me to believe...
633
00:43:24,228 --> 00:43:28,691
that he can't just channel himself
into doing better work.
634
00:43:30,234 --> 00:43:34,947
I like a lot of his work, and certainly
I don't miss the satirical aspect of it.
635
00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:36,240
Then I find myself having...
636
00:43:36,323 --> 00:43:38,033
a completely different reaction...
637
00:43:38,117 --> 00:43:39,952
perhaps one of being really turned off...
638
00:43:40,035 --> 00:43:41,745
and disgusted.
639
00:43:41,829 --> 00:43:46,458
And you know, this —
this cartoon, Joe Blow...
640
00:43:46,542 --> 00:43:50,087
is one that I thought about, um,
a lot in that light.
641
00:43:50,170 --> 00:43:55,843
On the one hand, it's a satire of a 1950s —
the healthy facade of the American family.
642
00:43:55,926 --> 00:44:00,389
And it kind of exposes
the sickness under the surface.
643
00:44:01,724 --> 00:44:07,604
But at the same time, you sense that Crumb
is getting off on it himself in some other way.
644
00:44:07,688 --> 00:44:10,316
And on another level, it's an orgy.
645
00:44:10,399 --> 00:44:14,194
It's a self-indulgent orgy,
um, in a fantasy.
646
00:44:14,278 --> 00:44:19,116
And the fantasy — Specifically,
this story is a story about a father...
647
00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:22,661
who commands his daughter
to give him a blow job.
648
00:44:22,745 --> 00:44:25,164
And she does, and they wind up having sex.
649
00:44:25,247 --> 00:44:29,335
And the little sort of Leave It to Beaver type
brother character comes running in...
650
00:44:29,418 --> 00:44:31,855
and sees the father and his sister,
and he's shocked and upset.
651
00:44:31,879 --> 00:44:33,797
He goes running to the mother to tell her.
652
00:44:33,881 --> 00:44:39,219
And Mom comes out of a closet
wearing a sort of S-and-M kind of getup.
653
00:44:39,303 --> 00:44:41,347
And the little boy says, "Oh, cool."
654
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:44,475
The next thing, Mom and son are having sex.
655
00:44:44,558 --> 00:44:47,770
The whole panel ends — The whole cartoon
ends with the parents saying...
656
00:44:47,853 --> 00:44:51,607
"Gee, we should spend more time with the kids."
Or something like that. Very funny.
657
00:44:51,690 --> 00:44:56,445
Um, so, you know,
you read something like this...
658
00:44:56,528 --> 00:44:59,531
and I think that it has gone over the line...
659
00:44:59,615 --> 00:45:05,287
from a satire of a 1950s, hygienic...
660
00:45:05,371 --> 00:45:08,707
you know, family in denial...
661
00:45:08,791 --> 00:45:13,087
into something which is just
Crumb producing pornography.
662
00:45:13,170 --> 00:45:16,382
And I think this theme in his work
is omnipresent.
663
00:45:16,465 --> 00:45:19,760
It's part of an arrested juvenile vision.
664
00:45:19,843 --> 00:45:24,723
Crumb's material comes out of
a deep sense of the absurdity of human life.
665
00:45:24,807 --> 00:45:26,910
At a certain kind of psychic level,
there aren't any heroes...
666
00:45:26,934 --> 00:45:29,311
there aren't any villains,
there aren't any heroines.
667
00:45:29,395 --> 00:45:32,106
And even the victims are comic.
668
00:45:32,189 --> 00:45:36,693
And, um, I think it's this which people
in America find rather hard to take...
669
00:45:36,777 --> 00:45:40,197
because it conflicts with their basic feelings —
670
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,410
that sort of mixture of utopianism
on one hand and Puritanism on the other...
671
00:45:44,493 --> 00:45:47,663
which is only another kind of utopianism.
672
00:45:47,746 --> 00:45:52,376
Which has given us the kind of messy discourse
that we have today.
673
00:45:52,459 --> 00:45:57,089
So, naturally, Crumb, like all great satirists,
is something of an outsider in his own country.
674
00:46:21,905 --> 00:46:25,826
♪ Females on my tip, and it ain't funny ♪
675
00:46:25,909 --> 00:46:28,579
- ♪ Why ♪
- ♪ I don't know, probably 'cause I got money ♪
676
00:46:28,662 --> 00:46:31,206
♪ Don't want me
Just want my riches ♪
677
00:46:31,290 --> 00:46:34,460
♪ Things like that
keep stitches on my britches ♪
678
00:46:34,543 --> 00:46:36,503
♪ I wear all 501s ♪
679
00:46:36,587 --> 00:46:39,089
♪ Many wear Adidas
but I have none ♪
680
00:46:39,173 --> 00:46:40,883
♪ Filas, I'm coolin' ♪♪
681
00:49:14,828 --> 00:49:16,872
Jesus! This fucking raging...
682
00:49:18,707 --> 00:49:22,252
epithet music coming out of
every car, every store...
683
00:49:22,336 --> 00:49:24,504
every person's head.
684
00:49:27,924 --> 00:49:30,844
If they don't have noisy radios,
they got earphones on, like...
685
00:49:30,927 --> 00:49:33,347
"Motherfuckin',
cock-suckin' son of a bitch."
686
00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:36,391
That's a lot of aggression.
A lot of anger, a lot of rage.
687
00:49:36,475 --> 00:49:38,226
♪ Just callin' to the motherfuck ♪
688
00:49:38,310 --> 00:49:41,396
Everybody walks around —
They're walking advertisements.
689
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,608
They've got advertisements
on their clothes, you know.
690
00:49:44,691 --> 00:49:48,236
Go walking around with "Adidas"
written across their chest...
691
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,572
or, you know, "49ers" on their hat.
692
00:49:50,656 --> 00:49:53,617
Jesus. It's pathetic. It's pitiful.
693
00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:56,119
The whole culture's one unified field...
694
00:49:56,203 --> 00:49:59,873
of bought, sold, market-researched everything.
695
00:49:59,956 --> 00:50:02,751
It used to be that people
fermented their own culture.
696
00:50:02,834 --> 00:50:06,797
It took hundreds of years,
and it evolved over time and, you know —
697
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,050
And that's gone in America.
698
00:50:10,133 --> 00:50:14,346
People now don't even have any concept
that there ever was a culture...
699
00:50:14,429 --> 00:50:17,683
outside of this thing
that's created to make money.
700
00:50:17,766 --> 00:50:21,395
Whatever's the biggest, latest thing,
they're into it, you know?
701
00:50:21,478 --> 00:50:23,772
You just get disgusted after a while
with humanity...
702
00:50:23,855 --> 00:50:26,692
for not having more, kind of like...
703
00:50:26,775 --> 00:50:29,903
you know, intellectual curiosity...
704
00:50:29,986 --> 00:50:34,241
about what's behind all this jive bullshit.
705
00:50:52,676 --> 00:50:55,262
Charles and I talk quite a bit about things.
706
00:50:55,345 --> 00:50:57,848
- We don't really talk that much.
- Yeah, we do.
707
00:50:57,931 --> 00:51:00,600
We hold aloof from each other
for the most part.
708
00:51:00,684 --> 00:51:03,478
You spend all your time down here
watching television...
709
00:51:03,562 --> 00:51:05,897
and doing your crossword puzzles.
710
00:51:05,981 --> 00:51:09,693
- I don't watch television all the time.
- I spend most of my time in my room reading books.
711
00:51:09,776 --> 00:51:11,820
I turn it on because it puts me to sleep.
712
00:51:14,322 --> 00:51:16,700
It's a good way to get to sleep.
713
00:51:16,783 --> 00:51:19,077
We're two recluses living in the same house.
714
00:51:19,161 --> 00:51:21,496
I wake up at 3:00 in the morning,
and it's still on.
715
00:51:21,580 --> 00:51:25,000
You do most of the talking
in the relationship, Mother.
716
00:51:25,083 --> 00:51:27,335
There's no doubt about that.
717
00:51:27,419 --> 00:51:29,272
You told me that even though
you take those medications...
718
00:51:29,296 --> 00:51:32,048
that you still feel nervous
and depressed sometimes.
719
00:51:32,132 --> 00:51:36,595
Yeah, but not as much as I would
if I wasn't taking the medication.
720
00:51:36,678 --> 00:51:38,597
Jesus.
721
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,867
What do you think would happen
if you stopped taking that stuff?
722
00:51:40,891 --> 00:51:43,435
I don't know. I tried it a couple of times...
723
00:51:43,518 --> 00:51:45,645
and I didn't like what was starting
to happen to me.
724
00:51:45,729 --> 00:51:47,439
- Jesus.
- He gets insomnia.
725
00:51:47,522 --> 00:51:50,400
I felt as if I were becoming
gradually unhinged.
726
00:51:50,484 --> 00:51:53,445
- Oh, man.
- So I got back on them again in a big hurry.
727
00:51:55,864 --> 00:51:58,700
I tried this a couple of times —
about two or three times.
728
00:51:58,784 --> 00:52:00,952
Do you still think
they're picking my brain, Mother?
729
00:52:01,036 --> 00:52:02,996
Yeah.
730
00:52:04,539 --> 00:52:06,458
Oh.
731
00:52:08,168 --> 00:52:10,295
You have nothing to hide,
nothing to be ashamed of.
732
00:52:10,378 --> 00:52:12,964
You're a good — He's a good person.
733
00:52:13,048 --> 00:52:16,426
People like Charles.
No, I mean — You know.
734
00:52:17,677 --> 00:52:20,388
Some people like me, and some don't.
735
00:52:20,472 --> 00:52:24,267
I'm a very quiet, well-behaved citizen.
736
00:52:24,351 --> 00:52:28,188
- I've gone from one extreme to the other.
- You've gone in a complete circle.
737
00:52:28,271 --> 00:52:30,482
You used to make trouble on the streets.
738
00:52:30,565 --> 00:52:32,877
One of the last times I went out with you,
we were walking around...
739
00:52:32,901 --> 00:52:35,021
and you just went up
to some old lady on the street...
740
00:52:35,070 --> 00:52:39,658
and started, like,
drilling her about her spiritual life.
741
00:52:39,741 --> 00:52:43,161
And she just got really frightened
and threatened to call the police.
742
00:52:43,245 --> 00:52:48,208
Charles goes up to these strangers
on the streets and starts raving at them.
743
00:52:48,291 --> 00:52:50,043
He was just a kid having fun. That's all.
744
00:52:50,126 --> 00:52:53,922
- This was when he was about 30.
- No, he wasn't!
745
00:52:54,923 --> 00:52:59,594
He's still doing that kind of stuff, but now
he doesn't even leave the house anymore.
746
00:52:59,678 --> 00:53:02,514
- He always got in trouble whenever he went out.
- No, he didn't.
747
00:53:02,597 --> 00:53:05,600
Will you give me one good reason
for leaving the house?
748
00:53:05,684 --> 00:53:10,355
At least he's not out taking illegal drugs
or selling illegal drugs.
749
00:53:10,438 --> 00:53:13,108
- No, he's taking legal drugs.
- I'm taking legal dope.
750
00:53:13,191 --> 00:53:16,319
Or being married
and making some woman miserable.
751
00:53:16,403 --> 00:53:18,697
This is true. This is true.
752
00:53:18,780 --> 00:53:22,617
One thing that kind of runs —
I spent all this money.
753
00:53:22,701 --> 00:53:27,581
And he's got these $200 teeth upstairs,
and he won't wear them.
754
00:53:27,664 --> 00:53:29,666
- They're too uncomfortable.
- They are at first.
755
00:53:29,749 --> 00:53:34,254
You gotta kind of leave them in there.
After a bit, you don't even know they're there.
756
00:53:34,337 --> 00:53:36,649
- What does he need 'em for?
- I never go anywhere. I never see anybody.
757
00:53:36,673 --> 00:53:39,968
What does he need 'em for —
to chew food, or what?
758
00:53:40,051 --> 00:53:41,761
Just pride in his own appearance.
759
00:53:41,845 --> 00:53:44,639
He never goes out.
What does he care what he looks like?
760
00:53:44,723 --> 00:53:47,225
I take a bath about once in six weeks.
761
00:53:47,309 --> 00:53:50,896
I believe in having a certain pride in yourself —
762
00:53:50,979 --> 00:53:55,609
in a way not that your ego gets out of hand
or you're an egomaniac —
763
00:53:55,692 --> 00:53:59,529
Pride can't exist except in relation
to other people.
764
00:53:59,613 --> 00:54:01,531
Yeah. That's right.
765
00:54:05,452 --> 00:54:09,497
I don't know.
Your hygiene habits are pretty good.
766
00:54:09,581 --> 00:54:12,250
You're not — You have —
767
00:54:12,334 --> 00:54:15,128
I'm never constipated.
That's about all I can say for myself.
768
00:54:20,342 --> 00:54:23,094
Oh, Charles.
769
00:54:23,178 --> 00:54:26,222
- That's something. You don't have hemorrhoids?
- That's a lot, you know.
770
00:54:26,306 --> 00:54:27,825
He doesn't have hemorrhoids.
You're doing good.
771
00:54:27,849 --> 00:54:30,518
Your father used to have trouble that way,
with constipation.
772
00:54:30,602 --> 00:54:33,480
With the bowels, yeah.
He was constipated all the time.
773
00:54:33,563 --> 00:54:35,482
You were really obsessed with —
774
00:54:35,565 --> 00:54:37,651
I could say something, but I won't.
775
00:54:37,734 --> 00:54:40,111
When we were kids,
you were always giving us castor oil.
776
00:54:40,195 --> 00:54:41,947
You were obsessed with constipation.
777
00:54:42,030 --> 00:54:46,242
When all you kids were real little,
I used to have to take care of you by myself.
778
00:54:46,326 --> 00:54:49,454
Remember that period
where you tried giving us all enemas?
779
00:54:49,537 --> 00:54:53,375
- That didn't work out too good.
- I never gave you any enemas.
780
00:54:53,458 --> 00:54:54,626
Somebody —
781
00:54:54,709 --> 00:54:57,754
You would always threaten to give us enemas
if we didn't behave properly.
782
00:54:57,879 --> 00:55:01,883
- No, I did not.
- Somebody tried to give me an enema.
I don't know who it was.
783
00:55:08,014 --> 00:55:10,684
- She wouldn't admit it, but —
- The house is weird?
784
00:55:10,767 --> 00:55:12,327
It's not just a regular suburban house?
785
00:55:12,394 --> 00:55:14,729
It's a suburban house that's, like, you know —
786
00:55:14,813 --> 00:55:17,524
looks like Whatever Happened to Baby Jane
or something.
787
00:55:17,607 --> 00:55:19,460
What do you mean?
She has weird trinkets around?
788
00:55:19,484 --> 00:55:21,420
She has weird blankets on the walls. She has cats.
789
00:55:21,444 --> 00:55:23,738
The whole place smells like pee and everything.
790
00:55:23,822 --> 00:55:26,241
Don't say that on the film.
791
00:55:26,324 --> 00:55:28,827
- She doesn't want people in the house.
- Oh.
792
00:55:28,910 --> 00:55:34,249
The next thing my mother knows
is this whole crew is filing in the door.
793
00:55:34,332 --> 00:55:37,919
She says, "Oh, no. No pictures!
No pictures. No way, Jose," she says.
794
00:55:40,463 --> 00:55:44,009
Terry says, "No, no. We're just going upstairs.
We're gonna do it up in Charles's room."
795
00:55:44,092 --> 00:55:48,388
Of course, naturally, then she got into it,
and after a while, you couldn't even shut her up.
796
00:55:48,471 --> 00:55:52,642
She just talked on and on.
She chattered on and on. It was awful.
797
00:55:52,726 --> 00:55:57,230
- Let's see. What year is this? 1970.
- '70. I'd just met you.
798
00:55:57,313 --> 00:56:02,360
This is when I first met you in 1969.
That's me. I remember that.
799
00:56:02,444 --> 00:56:06,740
- This doesn't look like me.
- You're right. It's not good. Let me touch it up.
800
00:56:06,823 --> 00:56:12,037
- The nose is too bulbous.
- The eyes are too far apart also.
801
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:13,455
Uh-huh.
802
00:56:13,538 --> 00:56:17,542
It's too late now, really. This was 18 years ago.
803
00:56:17,625 --> 00:56:20,503
- God, it just —
- How about this drawing of you?
804
00:56:20,587 --> 00:56:22,297
I remember we were in this restaurant.
805
00:56:22,380 --> 00:56:26,051
This is ridiculous. Oh, God!
806
00:56:26,134 --> 00:56:28,261
- I'm still rolling.
- She almost fell off the roof.
807
00:56:28,344 --> 00:56:31,556
But she can't see the notebook.
That's me?
808
00:56:31,639 --> 00:56:33,600
- I look like —
- That's you with your hair dryer.
809
00:56:35,435 --> 00:56:38,730
There's Terry.
810
00:56:40,982 --> 00:56:43,359
That's me. I like that drawing.
811
00:56:43,443 --> 00:56:46,005
- That's one of the few drawings I liked.
- This is what you said.
812
00:56:46,029 --> 00:56:49,407
So you're going to sell these books,
and I don't get a percentage?
813
00:56:49,491 --> 00:56:52,202
Yeah. This whole case of sketchbooks here...
814
00:56:52,285 --> 00:56:55,663
I'm giving to this guy for a house in France.
815
00:56:55,747 --> 00:56:58,416
I had a lot of drawings here.
What do I get out of this?
816
00:56:58,500 --> 00:57:01,419
- What drawings?
- Several. I drew that.
817
00:57:01,503 --> 00:57:03,922
- No, Aline drew those.
- You sure?
818
00:57:04,005 --> 00:57:05,048
Yes.
819
00:57:05,131 --> 00:57:07,050
- I drew that.
- No, Aline drew those.
820
00:57:07,133 --> 00:57:08,635
Really?
821
00:57:09,636 --> 00:57:11,721
That's Aline when I first knew her.
822
00:57:11,805 --> 00:57:15,100
You went from this page, where I was on it...
823
00:57:15,183 --> 00:57:18,228
and, like, two pages later, it's Aline?
824
00:57:18,311 --> 00:57:20,980
- How did that happen?
- It was a crazy period.
825
00:57:21,064 --> 00:57:23,817
That's disgusting.
826
00:57:25,026 --> 00:57:26,236
Horrible.
827
00:57:26,319 --> 00:57:28,613
That's you, and that's Aline.
828
00:57:28,696 --> 00:57:32,117
- Oh, Jesus.
- You really, really hated women then.
829
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,953
You think it's improved, um, since then?
830
00:57:35,036 --> 00:57:37,497
Yeah. I hate them a little bit less now.
831
00:57:46,923 --> 00:57:50,510
Guys like me,
I like certain kinds of women's legs.
832
00:57:50,593 --> 00:57:52,762
- I'm not masochistic.
- But you don't like feet.
833
00:57:52,846 --> 00:57:56,307
- You're not heavily into feet.
- I'm not fixated on feet, but I can get into it.
834
00:57:56,391 --> 00:58:00,478
I can — You know, I can have an orgasm...
835
00:58:00,562 --> 00:58:03,690
in playing with someone's foot, but —
836
00:58:03,773 --> 00:58:07,485
It's not just, you know,
a real narrow fixation or anything.
837
00:58:10,989 --> 00:58:15,451
It's just that the way the mind of the person
who's interested in legs and feet...
838
00:58:15,535 --> 00:58:18,222
is very different from the mind
of the person who's interested in breasts.
839
00:58:18,246 --> 00:58:20,915
Breast men tend to be aggressive,
outgoing, athletic.
840
00:58:20,999 --> 00:58:22,977
- Whereas people who like the lower body —
- She's so frightening.
841
00:58:23,001 --> 00:58:25,062
She has all these types.
She's got 'em all categorized.
842
00:58:25,086 --> 00:58:29,591
People who like the lower body
tend to be frightened, introverted.
843
00:58:29,674 --> 00:58:34,345
It all has to do with being down on the floor
when you were a scared little child...
844
00:58:34,429 --> 00:58:38,391
and looking up at that big tower of Mommy.
845
00:58:38,474 --> 00:58:42,353
What's down there? The feet and the legs.
That's where the security is.
846
00:58:42,437 --> 00:58:45,481
Women go around feeling victimized by men
all the time.
847
00:58:45,565 --> 00:58:47,317
They feel like the men have the power...
848
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,362
and the area where women
can take the power from men is through sex.
849
00:58:51,446 --> 00:58:55,825
Men — because they have
that fetishistic twist to their minds...
850
00:58:55,909 --> 00:59:00,121
because they have that ability to concentrate
on one thing to the exclusion of all else —
851
00:59:00,205 --> 00:59:03,708
can really be manipulated sexually,
where women are not as susceptible.
852
00:59:03,791 --> 00:59:06,628
You are so frightening. Jesus!
853
00:59:06,711 --> 00:59:10,924
Women are susceptible to power.
That's what I find.
854
00:59:11,007 --> 00:59:15,553
Any display of power and —
"Oh, he's so interesting!
855
00:59:15,637 --> 00:59:18,598
"Gee, who's that man over there
who's being so obnoxious and arrogant?
856
00:59:18,681 --> 00:59:20,099
Hmm. He's so interesting."
857
00:59:20,183 --> 00:59:21,559
I'm a career pornographer.
858
00:59:21,643 --> 00:59:23,269
I've been at it for 16 years.
859
00:59:23,353 --> 00:59:25,355
And it was really, I think...
860
00:59:25,438 --> 00:59:27,065
what I was always destined for.
861
00:59:27,148 --> 00:59:28,524
I always loved pornography.
862
00:59:30,068 --> 00:59:33,071
I took my birthday money when I turned 18 —
'cause I was now legal —
863
00:59:33,154 --> 00:59:35,990
and went to the adult bookstore
and bought pornography.
864
00:59:36,074 --> 00:59:40,245
I went along through some other jobs,
but I always sexualized 'em...
865
00:59:40,328 --> 00:59:43,456
so finding pornography was just right.
866
00:59:43,539 --> 00:59:48,461
I'm the editor of Jugs, Leg Show
and Bust Out right now.
867
00:59:48,544 --> 00:59:52,757
I was also the creator of Big Butt magazine.
868
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,343
We've arranged with Robert
to do a photo shoot today...
869
00:59:55,426 --> 00:59:57,804
which will appear in Leg Show magazine.
870
00:59:57,887 --> 01:00:01,808
We're going to have four or five women
who we think Robert will like...
871
01:00:01,891 --> 01:00:04,435
but there's never any telling
with Robert Crumb.
872
01:00:04,519 --> 01:00:07,105
Here's a girl I wish I could've gotten
for the Crumb shoot.
873
01:00:07,188 --> 01:00:10,900
This is a mother-daughter
dominance team from out in L.A.
874
01:00:10,984 --> 01:00:15,321
"Mother taught me to smother"
is this girl's motto.
875
01:00:15,405 --> 01:00:19,284
We're doing this for the Christmas issue.
The mother's wearing a little red outfit.
876
01:00:19,367 --> 01:00:21,828
As you can see,
we wanted them to do something festive.
877
01:01:43,034 --> 01:01:46,871
He's definitely a person that would rather
be a brain in a jar than a person in a body.
878
01:01:46,954 --> 01:01:50,792
He's, like — So, basically,
we both focus on my body sexually.
879
01:01:52,335 --> 01:01:56,714
You know, Robert's not too oriented
towards, uh, normal sex...
880
01:01:56,798 --> 01:02:00,343
so there wasn't much in the way
of normal sex in our relationship.
881
01:02:00,426 --> 01:02:04,889
But lots of piggyback rides
and, uh, wrestling around...
882
01:02:04,972 --> 01:02:08,059
and he liked to sit on my shoe a lot.
883
01:02:08,142 --> 01:02:10,061
He never takes his shirt off.
884
01:02:10,144 --> 01:02:13,231
He just likes to sort of, like,
you know, not exist.
885
01:02:13,314 --> 01:02:16,818
Robert is an admitted
compulsive masturbator.
886
01:02:16,901 --> 01:02:19,612
He masturbates four, five times a day.
887
01:02:19,695 --> 01:02:23,741
He has told me that he masturbates
to his own comics.
888
01:02:23,825 --> 01:02:26,869
I'm sure Picasso did. Um —
889
01:02:26,953 --> 01:02:29,330
I think probably, um —
890
01:02:30,873 --> 01:02:33,292
Yeah, I think probably some do.
891
01:02:33,376 --> 01:02:36,421
But I don't think that many artists...
892
01:02:36,504 --> 01:02:40,675
give you such a wide range of masturbatory
possibility as Crumb, you know?
893
01:02:41,676 --> 01:02:43,803
That is, if you like what he likes.
894
01:02:43,886 --> 01:02:45,805
Does he actually do that?
895
01:02:45,888 --> 01:02:48,641
Robert doesn't exaggerate anything
in his comics.
896
01:02:48,724 --> 01:02:51,018
The women are exactly
the way he wants them...
897
01:02:51,102 --> 01:02:54,272
and he really accurately portrays himself...
898
01:02:54,355 --> 01:02:59,652
as the skinny, bad posture,
myopic man he is.
899
01:02:59,735 --> 01:03:03,322
Some people wonder if he doesn't
exaggerate the size of his penis...
900
01:03:03,406 --> 01:03:05,783
which always appears
awfully big in the comics.
901
01:03:05,867 --> 01:03:08,369
Robert does not exaggerate anything.
902
01:03:08,453 --> 01:03:11,831
He is endowed with one of
the biggest penises in the world.
903
01:03:14,876 --> 01:03:17,920
Why do I have
my particular sexual proclivities?
904
01:03:18,004 --> 01:03:19,922
I don't know.
905
01:03:20,006 --> 01:03:22,300
Ask a psychiatrist.
I don't know what it's about.
906
01:03:22,383 --> 01:03:24,302
Well, the thing about Robert is...
907
01:03:24,385 --> 01:03:27,197
I think I always just thought he was kidding
about them, that he was trying —
908
01:03:27,221 --> 01:03:29,557
- You thought I was kidding?
- I mean, I —
909
01:03:31,559 --> 01:03:33,853
That he was trying to be funny, and —
910
01:03:33,936 --> 01:03:36,606
Yeah, that's right, Kathy.
911
01:03:36,731 --> 01:03:41,068
- I couldn't imagine how anyone could
really be serious about these things.
- You weren't laughing.
912
01:03:41,152 --> 01:03:45,323
- What do you think?
- It was just complete chaos, this relationship.
913
01:03:45,406 --> 01:03:48,910
I mean, the crying and all the fighting
started pretty soon actually.
914
01:03:48,993 --> 01:03:52,038
I think you cried, like, the third time
I'd been with you, or something.
915
01:03:52,121 --> 01:03:56,375
Well, what's so horrible about crying?
Why — Why is that so painful to you?
916
01:03:56,459 --> 01:03:59,462
I think, oh, my God. What am I —
How can I deal with it? What should I do?
917
01:03:59,545 --> 01:04:01,672
She's crying. I don't know what to do.
918
01:04:01,756 --> 01:04:06,052
So what you're saying is,
20 years later, you still had no idea...
919
01:04:06,135 --> 01:04:09,388
what you were doing
that could've contributed to that?
920
01:04:09,472 --> 01:04:11,390
No, I guess I don't.
921
01:04:11,474 --> 01:04:15,144
It was confusing
because he was totally irresponsible.
922
01:04:15,228 --> 01:04:17,313
- Well.
- He would call me up and say...
923
01:04:17,396 --> 01:04:20,691
"I love you. I miss you.
I can't wait to see you."
924
01:04:20,775 --> 01:04:23,945
And then this was —
He was supposed to be 200 miles away.
925
01:04:24,028 --> 01:04:26,030
He said, "I'll see you in a week or two."
926
01:04:26,113 --> 01:04:30,034
And then I'd go out to buy some groceries
two hours later...
927
01:04:30,117 --> 01:04:32,161
and I'd see him with another woman.
928
01:04:32,245 --> 01:04:35,706
And then he'd wonder
why I kicked him or got mad.
929
01:04:35,790 --> 01:04:39,126
- Do you think I'm sadistic?
- Yeah —
930
01:04:39,210 --> 01:04:41,671
Ow!
931
01:04:41,754 --> 01:04:45,091
Yeah, I think he —
he would always, um, you know, act...
932
01:04:45,174 --> 01:04:48,219
like he was passively a victim.
933
01:04:48,302 --> 01:04:52,139
I used to call it his Ashley Wilkes routine...
934
01:04:52,223 --> 01:04:54,559
that he would pull —
935
01:04:54,642 --> 01:04:59,021
where he was just this passive
victim of circumstance, you know...
936
01:04:59,105 --> 01:05:01,232
in other people's desires...
937
01:05:01,315 --> 01:05:05,861
when really he was just trying to get away
with whatever he could get away with...
938
01:05:05,945 --> 01:05:07,905
and walking all over people.
939
01:05:07,989 --> 01:05:11,409
I walked all over people? Like who? Like you?
940
01:05:11,492 --> 01:05:16,247
You think that you were a good guy,
you were a nice boyfriend to me at the time.
941
01:05:17,790 --> 01:05:21,502
I think maybe I'm just not
a very romantic person. That's all.
942
01:05:21,586 --> 01:05:25,256
I've never been, like — I don't think
I've ever actually, if I really think about it...
943
01:05:25,339 --> 01:05:27,258
ever been in love, you know.
944
01:05:27,341 --> 01:05:31,304
Oh, I have many letters where you
said "I love you" hundreds of times.
945
01:05:31,387 --> 01:05:34,390
Yeah, I was just abusing the word, you know.
946
01:05:34,473 --> 01:05:36,767
- I had this overpowering —
- I'm leaving.
947
01:05:36,851 --> 01:05:39,020
No, I — I was very fond of you.
948
01:05:39,103 --> 01:05:40,980
Ouch!
949
01:05:41,063 --> 01:05:42,982
I was very fond of you...
950
01:05:43,065 --> 01:05:46,777
and I certainly had the most overpowering lust
for you that you could possibly imagine...
951
01:05:46,861 --> 01:05:49,864
but I wouldn't say that I was in love.
952
01:05:49,947 --> 01:05:51,866
I just don't — don't have it in me.
953
01:05:51,949 --> 01:05:55,244
- I've never been in love
with any woman, never been jealous.
- That's horrible.
954
01:05:55,328 --> 01:05:59,457
The only woman I've ever been in love with
is Sophie, basically, my darling daughter.
955
01:05:59,540 --> 01:06:02,501
Hey.
956
01:06:03,544 --> 01:06:05,713
You made me mess up.
You provoked me.
957
01:06:07,632 --> 01:06:09,550
Look out. Yeah!
958
01:06:27,818 --> 01:06:31,322
I did a bunch of books in the early '70s
that were really self-deprecating.
959
01:06:31,405 --> 01:06:33,658
My self-hatred was really intense then.
960
01:06:33,741 --> 01:06:36,535
Did you ever see this one?
This one's Twisted Sisters.
961
01:06:38,496 --> 01:06:40,706
Nice cover. I show myself on the toilet.
962
01:06:40,790 --> 01:06:44,251
It got no recognition. Nobody bought it.
963
01:06:44,335 --> 01:06:46,379
I asked the publisher, you know,
how it was doing.
964
01:06:46,462 --> 01:06:51,092
He said he was using it for insulation
in the walls of his barn.
965
01:06:52,677 --> 01:06:55,680
What's the gist of your comics?
What are they like?
966
01:06:55,763 --> 01:06:59,433
They're all about me —
my sex life, my phobias...
967
01:06:59,517 --> 01:07:02,853
you know, what a disgusting human being
I think I am.
968
01:07:02,937 --> 01:07:05,648
- You know, I hope —
- But your mother's featured in it a lot too.
969
01:07:05,731 --> 01:07:08,693
Yeah. Yeah.
It's the way I can tolerate my mother —
970
01:07:08,776 --> 01:07:11,404
is by drawing really hideous drawings of her...
971
01:07:11,487 --> 01:07:14,073
like — like this, for example.
972
01:07:14,156 --> 01:07:17,451
This is after Sophie was born.
My mother came to visit me.
973
01:07:17,535 --> 01:07:20,329
She was so irritating and so unhelpful.
974
01:07:20,413 --> 01:07:24,166
She just talks about how she couldn't hold
the baby 'cause she'd just had her nails wrapped.
975
01:07:24,250 --> 01:07:28,212
My mother yells really loud in the restaurant,
"Got any Sweet'N Low, dear?"
976
01:07:28,295 --> 01:07:32,633
A real quiet sort of fern-bar
restaurant in San Francisco.
977
01:07:32,717 --> 01:07:35,136
And every single person
turned around to look, you know?
978
01:07:35,219 --> 01:07:39,765
She came to the airport with an Afro, dressed
up to the minute in this completely trendy outfit.
979
01:07:39,849 --> 01:07:42,435
And Robert and I looked
like immigrants just off the boat.
980
01:07:42,518 --> 01:07:44,878
That's your father there
in the middle, on the bottom there?
981
01:07:44,937 --> 01:07:48,190
That's my mother's husband, yeah.
She had him dressed in a leisure suit.
982
01:07:48,274 --> 01:07:51,569
When she first met him,
he used to wear, like, baggy brown suits...
983
01:07:51,652 --> 01:07:54,155
and he had, like, short hair,
and he was kind of fat.
984
01:07:54,238 --> 01:07:57,408
And she put him on a diet
and put him in, like, safari outfits...
985
01:07:57,491 --> 01:07:59,452
and made him grow sideburns.
986
01:07:59,535 --> 01:08:01,537
But he was still real schlubby.
987
01:08:01,620 --> 01:08:06,208
He had, like, schlubby posture and everything,
but he was real trendily dressed.
988
01:08:06,292 --> 01:08:08,794
And kind of follow along after her like that.
989
01:08:08,878 --> 01:08:11,547
- What does she think about your comics?
- She doesn't see them.
990
01:08:11,672 --> 01:08:15,193
- She also — She's not interested.
- She never asked to see them?
She doesn't know you're a cartoonist?
991
01:08:15,217 --> 01:08:20,014
No, unconsciously, she must know there's
some things she doesn't want to know about.
992
01:08:20,097 --> 01:08:24,477
And the other thing is that she doesn't really
take in very much about anybody anyway.
993
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,479
She's not too interested.
994
01:08:26,562 --> 01:08:29,857
She came here and she saw this painting
and a bunch of other paintings around...
995
01:08:29,940 --> 01:08:32,443
and she said,
"Those are nice paintings. Who did them?"
996
01:08:32,526 --> 01:08:35,529
I said, "I did."
She said, "I didn't know you painted."
997
01:08:37,031 --> 01:08:39,575
I mean, she sent me to art school.
998
01:08:39,658 --> 01:08:42,495
She just changed the subject.
"What are we having for dinner?"
999
01:08:47,666 --> 01:08:51,587
One thing you've obviously
already learned is the importance of black.
1000
01:08:51,670 --> 01:08:53,506
- That's good.
- Thanks, Pop.
1001
01:08:58,010 --> 01:09:00,596
Okay, okay. Enough.
1002
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,267
So why this figure?
Why'd you choose this one in particular?
1003
01:09:05,351 --> 01:09:08,479
I like these photos.
They're powerful photos for some reason.
1004
01:09:08,562 --> 01:09:11,148
- This one was easy to draw too, I felt.
- Right.
1005
01:09:11,232 --> 01:09:13,734
But I only pick the attractive ones.
I didn't do the —
1006
01:09:13,818 --> 01:09:16,862
Some of them are ugly, you know.
Her — she's a mess.
1007
01:09:16,946 --> 01:09:18,864
I know. She is, yeah.
1008
01:09:18,948 --> 01:09:21,992
The text talks about her
being, like, an alcoholic reprobate.
1009
01:09:22,076 --> 01:09:23,994
They picked her up off the street,
threw her —
1010
01:09:24,078 --> 01:09:25,996
This one — Oh, God!
1011
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,833
Really a monster. Eeh.
1012
01:09:28,916 --> 01:09:32,503
See, in my drawing of her,
I made her cuter than she really is...
1013
01:09:32,586 --> 01:09:36,048
because I acquired the cuteness curse
when I worked at American Greetings...
1014
01:09:36,131 --> 01:09:38,425
- which I can't shake.
- You see that?
1015
01:09:38,509 --> 01:09:40,845
You got the tilt of her head right.
1016
01:09:40,928 --> 01:09:43,556
- I just noticed that.
- That's hard. That's hard to do.
1017
01:09:43,639 --> 01:09:47,309
You have to really, you know —
Actually, the proportions of this to this.
1018
01:09:47,393 --> 01:09:49,979
You know, is that the same,
or is it shorter?
1019
01:09:50,062 --> 01:09:52,940
I did a lot of erasing in pencil at first.
1020
01:09:56,277 --> 01:10:01,031
What you haven't learned yet is how to cheat,
though, to get the desired effect that you want.
1021
01:10:01,115 --> 01:10:03,367
Like what — draw over the top
of a Xerox or something?
1022
01:10:03,450 --> 01:10:08,372
Well — I mean, what you want is, like, capture
a certain thing about this woman's face.
1023
01:10:08,455 --> 01:10:11,000
A certain defiance
or whatever it is you see in there.
1024
01:10:11,083 --> 01:10:12,710
Yeah, I didn't get it.
1025
01:10:12,793 --> 01:10:16,005
Exaggerate those little things
that give her that look, you know.
1026
01:10:16,088 --> 01:10:20,634
Like the way her teeth are slightly showing,
like she's got a slight sneer, you know.
1027
01:10:20,718 --> 01:10:23,137
I sort of try to do that,
but it's hard with pencil.
1028
01:10:23,220 --> 01:10:25,574
Just exaggerate it a little bit.
You know, cheat it a little bit.
1029
01:10:25,598 --> 01:10:29,059
Like the tilt of the head and the sneer,
you would just make, you know —
1030
01:10:29,143 --> 01:10:31,395
emphasize that.
1031
01:10:31,478 --> 01:10:33,397
You kind of almost
have to do it consciously —
1032
01:10:33,480 --> 01:10:36,817
make a decision of what you want
to bring out in this person's face.
1033
01:10:36,901 --> 01:10:39,153
I did that here,
but it still didn't work out.
1034
01:10:39,236 --> 01:10:42,907
Well, it's very subtle in that photo.
It's very, very subtle.
1035
01:10:42,990 --> 01:10:45,367
My drawing doesn't capture the hate.
1036
01:10:45,451 --> 01:10:47,912
It kind of does in a way.
You've got the open mouth.
1037
01:10:47,995 --> 01:10:51,248
- That's sort of the key to the whole thing.
- That sneer, you know?
1038
01:10:51,332 --> 01:10:54,126
- Baring the teeth.
- Yeah. That's key.
1039
01:10:54,209 --> 01:10:58,464
You know they obviously ordered her
to sit down and don't move.
1040
01:10:58,547 --> 01:11:02,468
They're gonna take her picture,
and just, you know — "Sit there."
1041
01:11:02,551 --> 01:11:05,471
You can see that she really doesn't like it.
1042
01:11:05,554 --> 01:11:09,475
It'd be good, actually, if you could take
life drawing. I think that'd be really —
1043
01:11:09,558 --> 01:11:12,895
You didn't go to art school,
and look, you're rich and famous.
1044
01:11:12,978 --> 01:11:14,647
Geez.
1045
01:11:14,730 --> 01:11:18,943
We're not talking about rich and famous.
We're talking about learning how to draw.
1046
01:11:19,026 --> 01:11:22,029
A lot of my recent works appear
in this Weirdo magazine.
1047
01:11:22,112 --> 01:11:24,323
These are the kind of guys
who read my work.
1048
01:11:24,406 --> 01:11:27,201
It's kind of an ode
to the Weirdo reader there —
1049
01:11:27,284 --> 01:11:32,122
the hurt, sensitive kind of guy
who doesn't fit in with the normal people.
1050
01:11:32,206 --> 01:11:34,124
Like these people back here.
1051
01:11:34,208 --> 01:11:37,294
She's saying,
"I always hated the Three Stooges."
1052
01:11:37,378 --> 01:11:40,464
Of course, he loves the Three Stooges.
1053
01:11:41,799 --> 01:11:44,426
This is my source material here.
1054
01:11:44,510 --> 01:11:48,806
I couldn't find any pictures in magazines
of ordinary, modern...
1055
01:11:48,889 --> 01:11:50,808
street scenes in America...
1056
01:11:50,891 --> 01:11:53,352
so I persuaded this guy
that I know in Sacramento...
1057
01:11:53,435 --> 01:11:55,437
to spend a day with me driving around —
1058
01:11:55,521 --> 01:11:58,107
'cause I don't drive,
so couldn't get around and do it myself —
1059
01:11:58,190 --> 01:12:02,403
just to take snapshots of ordinary
street corners in modern America.
1060
01:12:02,486 --> 01:12:04,780
This has been indispensable to me.
1061
01:12:04,863 --> 01:12:06,782
You can't remember these things...
1062
01:12:06,865 --> 01:12:09,410
to draw these modern light poles
and all this crap...
1063
01:12:09,493 --> 01:12:13,372
all this junk
that's on every suburban street.
1064
01:12:13,455 --> 01:12:15,457
I've used it in a lot of places.
1065
01:12:17,126 --> 01:12:20,045
It's background here.
Stuff like that.
1066
01:12:20,129 --> 01:12:23,716
All this back here.
In my story in here, I used it also.
1067
01:12:25,801 --> 01:12:30,681
This whole background, all this stuff,
I put it right over here.
1068
01:12:30,764 --> 01:12:34,143
You can't make up this crap.
You know, it's too complicated.
1069
01:12:34,226 --> 01:12:38,522
On this cover here, I used a bunch
of photos to take that stuff.
1070
01:12:38,605 --> 01:12:42,317
In the real world, this stuff
is not created to be visually pleasing.
1071
01:12:42,401 --> 01:12:45,446
It's just accumulation
of the modern industrial world.
1072
01:12:45,529 --> 01:12:48,866
People don't even notice.
They block it out.
1073
01:12:51,326 --> 01:12:53,245
How about if you play that?
1074
01:12:56,707 --> 01:12:58,709
Robert and Sophie, come on.
Dinner's ready.
1075
01:12:58,792 --> 01:13:00,711
- Okay.
- Hurry up.
1076
01:13:03,380 --> 01:13:05,382
- Oh!
- Go sit down. Get out of here.
1077
01:13:05,466 --> 01:13:07,426
- Who, me?
- No, her.
1078
01:13:07,509 --> 01:13:09,511
She's helping me.
1079
01:13:09,595 --> 01:13:11,764
Now she's break-dancing. Get out of here.
1080
01:13:16,685 --> 01:13:20,731
Come on, Soph.
Come over here and get your plate.
1081
01:13:20,814 --> 01:13:23,442
How's that?
1082
01:13:23,525 --> 01:13:27,196
Okay, then — Give me the gum.
I'll trade you the gum for the plate.
1083
01:13:34,495 --> 01:13:36,747
Gotta have my starch and my fat.
1084
01:13:36,830 --> 01:13:38,832
♪ Whoopee-dee-doo ♪
1085
01:13:39,958 --> 01:13:41,877
Ew. Look at all this food.
1086
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:45,172
It's fun to eat supper with your family —
1087
01:13:45,255 --> 01:13:48,509
especially when
there is good food on the table.
1088
01:13:48,592 --> 01:13:51,011
Chuck, at least you could manage
to be on time.
1089
01:13:51,095 --> 01:13:53,597
Your mother goes to all the trouble
to prepare a fine meal.
1090
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,391
It's — It's only common courtesy, Chuck.
1091
01:13:56,475 --> 01:13:59,812
I know, but I couldn't help it.
I was late home from school.
1092
01:13:59,895 --> 01:14:02,606
Once I reached adolescence,
it was the late '50s...
1093
01:14:02,689 --> 01:14:06,985
and everybody I knew, their families had nothing
to do with the advertisement for itself...
1094
01:14:07,069 --> 01:14:10,280
that the culture was presenting
on the TV screen.
1095
01:14:10,364 --> 01:14:12,324
Why not?
1096
01:14:12,407 --> 01:14:16,036
- Do I have to have a reason?
- But all your friends will be there.
1097
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,748
- I don't care. I'm not —
- Chuck! Don't talk with your mouth full.
1098
01:14:21,416 --> 01:14:25,379
Chew your food well. Chew and chew.
1099
01:14:25,462 --> 01:14:28,298
Doesn't it taste extra good that way?
1100
01:14:29,383 --> 01:14:31,885
The whole thing was just a big false front...
1101
01:14:31,969 --> 01:14:35,806
that was just suffocating
and so dreary and depressing.
1102
01:14:36,974 --> 01:14:39,494
Okay, they grew up in the depression.
All right, all right. I understand.
1103
01:14:39,518 --> 01:14:43,540
They went through the war,
and they just wanted this thing that was
so tight and unthreatening and flat.
1104
01:14:43,564 --> 01:14:45,482
And they wanted a dull lifestyle.
1105
01:14:45,566 --> 01:14:47,568
So they wanted Perry Como...
1106
01:14:47,651 --> 01:14:50,737
and this Ozzie and Harriet shell
that we grew up in.
1107
01:14:50,821 --> 01:14:56,201
The whole thing had this kind of creepy,
nightmarish, grotesque quality to it.
1108
01:15:02,541 --> 01:15:05,544
This here is the first issue of Zap Comix...
1109
01:15:05,627 --> 01:15:07,796
that I did in late 1967.
1110
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:12,009
It was, like, you know, the beginning
of all this underground comic nonsense.
1111
01:15:13,218 --> 01:15:15,679
It was all very L.S.D. inspired.
1112
01:15:15,762 --> 01:15:19,266
And a lot of these are things
I redrew from sketchbooks.
1113
01:15:19,349 --> 01:15:22,060
This Whiteman character.
1114
01:15:22,144 --> 01:15:24,771
A lot of this stuff,
I didn't realize when I was doing it...
1115
01:15:24,855 --> 01:15:28,150
what it was really about or, you know,
what it was connected to in my mind.
1116
01:15:28,233 --> 01:15:31,737
And I realized afterwards,
this is really about my father.
1117
01:15:31,820 --> 01:15:35,616
This rigid, kind of, uh...
1118
01:15:35,699 --> 01:15:38,368
gung-ho American kind of a guy.
1119
01:15:38,452 --> 01:15:42,539
But you know, it's a typical
World War II generation man.
1120
01:15:43,624 --> 01:15:45,542
When my father died in '82...
1121
01:15:45,626 --> 01:15:48,879
my aunt gave me all the stuff
that my father had sent her over the years.
1122
01:15:48,962 --> 01:15:53,050
One of the things was this book that he wrote,
Training People Effectively.
1123
01:15:53,133 --> 01:15:56,386
So — I'm not sure what he did for a living
in the last years of his life.
1124
01:15:56,470 --> 01:15:58,972
It had something to do with,
you know, employee motivation...
1125
01:15:59,056 --> 01:16:01,225
for this corporation that he worked for.
1126
01:16:01,308 --> 01:16:04,436
Here's a photo.
1127
01:16:04,519 --> 01:16:08,732
I was reading recently about this syndrome
in Japan now that Japanese businessmen have.
1128
01:16:08,815 --> 01:16:11,735
It's something about some smiling disease...
1129
01:16:11,818 --> 01:16:16,198
where they have this, like,
fixed smile on their face all the time.
1130
01:16:16,281 --> 01:16:18,242
I think my father had that.
1131
01:16:18,325 --> 01:16:20,744
The article said
it was a sign of deep depression.
1132
01:16:20,827 --> 01:16:23,080
He didn't smile when he was home.
1133
01:16:23,163 --> 01:16:25,916
The smile dropped
as soon as he came home.
1134
01:16:25,999 --> 01:16:28,418
He was a grim guy.
He fought in the war and everything.
1135
01:16:28,502 --> 01:16:31,755
He just had a real hard-ass
attitude about life...
1136
01:16:31,838 --> 01:16:36,843
and thought that my mother was
mollycoddling all of us, which she was.
1137
01:16:36,927 --> 01:16:41,598
All three of his sons
ended up being wimpy, nerdy weirdos.
1138
01:16:41,682 --> 01:16:45,560
It kind of broke his heart, I think.
He wanted at least one of us to become a marine.
1139
01:16:47,771 --> 01:16:50,857
My father was real hotheaded,
and he'd just blow his stack...
1140
01:16:50,941 --> 01:16:54,695
and just lash out
and just hit you real hard.
1141
01:16:54,778 --> 01:16:58,615
When I was five years old, on Christmas, he —
This whole thing happened...
1142
01:16:58,699 --> 01:17:02,786
where he blew his stack at me,
and that's when he busted my collarbone.
1143
01:17:02,869 --> 01:17:04,788
- When you were five?
- Yeah.
1144
01:17:06,039 --> 01:17:08,959
I think Charles had a penchant
for getting in trouble.
1145
01:17:09,042 --> 01:17:11,753
He was very diabolical as a kid.
1146
01:17:11,837 --> 01:17:14,798
And my father would, like,
beat him unmercifully...
1147
01:17:14,881 --> 01:17:18,135
for these things that he was always do —
these crimes he was always committing.
1148
01:17:18,218 --> 01:17:20,220
It just made him worse, I think.
1149
01:17:20,304 --> 01:17:23,432
- I had this subconscious desire to be punished.
- Why?
1150
01:17:23,515 --> 01:17:26,310
I don't know. I think it had
something to do with the old man.
1151
01:17:26,393 --> 01:17:30,564
I think it had something to do
with my being brought up by a sadistic bully.
1152
01:17:32,649 --> 01:17:35,086
I know there's some connection there
between the two of them...
1153
01:17:35,110 --> 01:17:39,156
although I'm not really sure what it is.
1154
01:17:39,239 --> 01:17:41,533
What was your mom like
when you were a kid?
1155
01:17:41,616 --> 01:17:43,577
She was an amphetamine addict...
1156
01:17:43,660 --> 01:17:47,164
and these amphetamines
would make her act real crazy...
1157
01:17:47,247 --> 01:17:49,750
and do and say
all these really crazy things.
1158
01:17:49,833 --> 01:17:54,046
It had an absolutely devastating effect,
I think, on all five of us kids.
1159
01:17:54,129 --> 01:17:55,630
- Do you?
- Yeah.
1160
01:17:55,714 --> 01:17:59,551
It certainly had
a devastating effect on me anyway.
1161
01:17:59,634 --> 01:18:01,845
How did your parents get along?
1162
01:18:01,928 --> 01:18:04,890
They got along fairly well up until the time
I was nine or 10 years old.
1163
01:18:04,973 --> 01:18:09,102
But after that, when Beattie started taking
amphetamines to keep her weight down...
1164
01:18:09,186 --> 01:18:11,104
they had a terrible time.
1165
01:18:11,188 --> 01:18:14,274
They were screaming and yelling
at each other all the time —
1166
01:18:14,358 --> 01:18:16,735
morning, noon and night.
1167
01:18:16,818 --> 01:18:19,505
- She'd scratch at the old man's face.
- It was an absolute nightmare.
1168
01:18:19,529 --> 01:18:21,448
Till it looked like ground hamburger.
1169
01:18:21,531 --> 01:18:23,950
He used to put makeup on
when he went to work...
1170
01:18:24,034 --> 01:18:27,704
in an attempt to cover up
the scratches on his face.
1171
01:18:27,788 --> 01:18:30,040
The old man came to me one afternoon
and said...
1172
01:18:30,123 --> 01:18:34,294
"If you don't go out and get a job, Charles,
I'm gonna make your life a hell on earth."
1173
01:18:36,463 --> 01:18:41,134
And that's exactly what he started to do —
he started to make my life a hell on earth.
1174
01:18:41,218 --> 01:18:45,389
So to get him off my back,
I took up this job as a telephone solicitor...
1175
01:18:45,472 --> 01:18:47,391
for the Philadelphia Inquirer.
1176
01:18:48,809 --> 01:18:50,977
The reason I stuck it out for a whole year...
1177
01:18:51,061 --> 01:18:54,439
is because I was afraid of what
the old man might do to me if I didn't.
1178
01:18:54,523 --> 01:18:56,983
That's the last time
you held a job though, right?
1179
01:18:57,067 --> 01:18:59,569
Yeah, and it only lasted for about a year.
1180
01:18:59,653 --> 01:19:01,613
That was back in '69.
1181
01:19:01,696 --> 01:19:05,242
The old man was always trying
to make productive citizens out of us.
1182
01:19:05,325 --> 01:19:08,662
Even when I was a teenager,
he forced me to use my drawing talent...
1183
01:19:08,745 --> 01:19:11,248
to go out and draw pictures of houses...
1184
01:19:11,331 --> 01:19:13,643
and then ask the people
if they wanted to buy the pictures.
1185
01:19:13,667 --> 01:19:16,562
- That was mainly the old man's idea, wasn't it?
- It was completely his idea.
1186
01:19:16,586 --> 01:19:18,755
He made me do it.
He told me I had to do it.
1187
01:19:18,839 --> 01:19:22,092
It was a hateful job.
1188
01:19:22,175 --> 01:19:25,137
When I first got well known,
he was kind of proud of me.
1189
01:19:25,220 --> 01:19:29,599
You know, he heard that I was getting
well known for my work, but he never saw it.
1190
01:19:29,683 --> 01:19:32,769
- I never —
- I don't think he would've approved of your work.
1191
01:19:32,853 --> 01:19:35,981
- Finally somebody —
- He would've disapproved of it
on so-called moral grounds.
1192
01:19:36,064 --> 01:19:39,109
Somebody told me that someone at work
showed him one of my comics...
1193
01:19:39,192 --> 01:19:41,903
and that's when he stopped talking to me.
1194
01:19:42,028 --> 01:19:46,283
He wouldn't speak to me after that,
after he actually saw some of that stuff
I was doing in the early '70s.
1195
01:19:53,874 --> 01:19:57,252
The story in here I had most trouble with
is this one, "A Bitchin' Bod!"
1196
01:19:57,335 --> 01:20:00,422
I got two pages into it and I thought,
"Oh, this is just too —
1197
01:20:00,505 --> 01:20:02,883
"This is too negative,
it's too twisted, it's too upsetting.
1198
01:20:02,966 --> 01:20:04,676
I gotta stop this."
1199
01:20:04,759 --> 01:20:09,264
So I quit working on it,
and I threw the pages in the garbage can.
1200
01:20:09,347 --> 01:20:12,642
And at some point,
Aline came into my studio for something...
1201
01:20:12,726 --> 01:20:16,438
and I decided, well, I'll show her this
and see what she thinks about it.
1202
01:20:16,521 --> 01:20:20,567
So I pulled 'em out of the garbage can,
and I said, "Aline, this thing —
1203
01:20:20,650 --> 01:20:23,570
"What do you think about this?
I threw it away.
1204
01:20:23,653 --> 01:20:27,991
I decided I didn't want to continue it.
It's just too weird. It's just too disturbing."
1205
01:20:28,074 --> 01:20:30,994
She read it and said,
"You have to finish this.
1206
01:20:31,077 --> 01:20:34,789
You just have to do it, obviously.
You've got to see this through."
1207
01:20:34,873 --> 01:20:39,836
I said, "Well, okay, she's a woman.
She said I have to do it, so I'll do it."
1208
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,548
So Flakey Foont answers the door,
and there's this girl's body standing there.
1209
01:20:43,632 --> 01:20:46,134
But what you see
is Mr. Natural's head and his beard...
1210
01:20:46,218 --> 01:20:48,512
over the front of her
where her head should be.
1211
01:20:48,595 --> 01:20:50,138
That's how it starts.
1212
01:20:50,222 --> 01:20:52,891
Flakey Foont, he's very confused by that.
1213
01:20:52,974 --> 01:20:58,313
And, uh, Mr. Natural comes galloping in...
1214
01:20:58,396 --> 01:21:00,482
riding the girl around the room.
1215
01:21:00,565 --> 01:21:03,777
Her body's very frisky,
and you don't see her head at all.
1216
01:21:03,860 --> 01:21:08,114
You just see Mr. Natural's beard
over where her head should be.
1217
01:21:08,198 --> 01:21:12,536
Then she lands in a split...
1218
01:21:12,619 --> 01:21:17,999
and, uh, Mr. Natural starts talking about
what an amazing body this woman has.
1219
01:21:18,083 --> 01:21:20,418
But the head was always a problem...
1220
01:21:20,502 --> 01:21:23,213
'cause she had
such an obnoxious personality.
1221
01:21:23,296 --> 01:21:25,715
Flakey Foont is shocked and horrified...
1222
01:21:25,799 --> 01:21:29,010
when he sees that she actually
doesn't have a head.
1223
01:21:29,094 --> 01:21:30,971
And —
1224
01:21:31,054 --> 01:21:35,183
Mr. Natural explains, "Let's face it.
She was obnoxious, so I just got rid of the head.
1225
01:21:35,267 --> 01:21:37,561
"You always wanted her,
you always lusted after her.
1226
01:21:37,644 --> 01:21:39,646
Now you can have her
because her head's missing."
1227
01:21:39,729 --> 01:21:42,482
Then he starts explaining
how he took the head off...
1228
01:21:42,566 --> 01:21:45,819
and topped the neck with this little cap...
1229
01:21:45,902 --> 01:21:49,489
and that he —
Mr. Natural says he found out —
1230
01:21:49,573 --> 01:21:53,827
he discovered that there was — that she
had a second, smaller brain in her butt —
1231
01:21:53,910 --> 01:21:57,872
and that that's
what's making the body function.
1232
01:21:57,956 --> 01:22:00,750
And then he gives Foont directions
on how to feed her.
1233
01:22:00,834 --> 01:22:04,004
You take this cap off,
and you put this funnel down her neck.
1234
01:22:04,087 --> 01:22:07,048
Mr. Natural pulls out
this mannequin head and says...
1235
01:22:07,132 --> 01:22:09,634
"If you take her outside,
you got to put this head on her...
1236
01:22:09,718 --> 01:22:13,221
so people aren't shocked and horrified
by a headless girl walking around."
1237
01:22:13,305 --> 01:22:17,601
And then Mr. Natural leaves and says,
"Don't say I never did anything for you."
1238
01:22:17,684 --> 01:22:21,855
He gives the girl to Foont,
and Foont's kind of getting excited.
1239
01:22:21,938 --> 01:22:24,691
He's got this frisky,
wondrous girl body all to himself...
1240
01:22:24,774 --> 01:22:26,735
to do with whatever he wants.
1241
01:22:26,818 --> 01:22:30,697
He says, "I like it better with just the cap."
He knocks the fake head off.
1242
01:22:30,780 --> 01:22:32,782
He's leading her over to the wall...
1243
01:22:32,866 --> 01:22:36,411
and she accidentally steps on
the fake head and smashes it.
1244
01:22:36,494 --> 01:22:38,997
He pushes her against the wall,
pulls her clothes off...
1245
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:41,583
and he's admiring her firm and solid butt.
1246
01:22:41,666 --> 01:22:44,252
This is the part where I get excited
when I'm working on it.
1247
01:22:44,336 --> 01:22:46,338
I really enjoy drawing the female form.
1248
01:22:46,421 --> 01:22:48,465
I always make a lot of fuss and bother...
1249
01:22:48,548 --> 01:22:50,884
to make sure the figure comes out
just the way I want it.
1250
01:22:50,967 --> 01:22:53,845
The males,
I don't care what they look like that much.
1251
01:22:53,928 --> 01:22:56,723
So he starts to fuck her.
1252
01:22:56,806 --> 01:22:59,643
He penetrates her from behind,
and he's getting really excited.
1253
01:22:59,726 --> 01:23:01,895
At the same time, he feels somewhat guilty.
1254
01:23:01,978 --> 01:23:05,148
And then he's —
While he's in the middle of coming...
1255
01:23:05,231 --> 01:23:10,028
he imagines her severed head...
1256
01:23:10,111 --> 01:23:13,114
and then her face condemning him.
1257
01:23:13,198 --> 01:23:16,076
She says, "You little shit!"
1258
01:23:16,159 --> 01:23:18,620
Cut to Mr. Natural.
He's home, phone's ringing.
1259
01:23:18,703 --> 01:23:21,164
He's saying, "Well, I got home an hour ago."
Yeah, it's Foont.
1260
01:23:21,247 --> 01:23:23,249
Yeah, he's feeling guilty.
1261
01:23:25,126 --> 01:23:28,797
Foont wants to bring her back over.
He wants to get rid of her. He can't handle it.
1262
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,174
So Mr. Natural says,
"Okay, bring her over."
1263
01:23:31,257 --> 01:23:34,761
He says, "Make sure you put the head
back on before you take her outside."
1264
01:23:34,844 --> 01:23:37,347
So he goes to get the head,
and he realizes it's been smashed.
1265
01:23:37,430 --> 01:23:39,391
He doesn't know what to do.
1266
01:23:39,474 --> 01:23:42,018
Actually, a lot of these poses
in these panels...
1267
01:23:42,102 --> 01:23:45,647
I took from freeze-framing
the Fly Girls on In Living Color.
1268
01:23:47,399 --> 01:23:50,777
So he ties up a T-shirt into a ball
and puts it on top of the cap.
1269
01:23:50,860 --> 01:23:52,779
Then he puts a hat on.
1270
01:23:52,862 --> 01:23:55,031
He pushes her in the car.
1271
01:23:55,115 --> 01:23:57,033
Then we cut to Mr. Natural's house.
1272
01:23:57,117 --> 01:23:59,869
Mr. Natural's saying he's going to regret it
if he doesn't keep her.
1273
01:23:59,953 --> 01:24:03,873
But Mr. Natural says, "All right. Forget it.
Forget it. We'll put the head back."
1274
01:24:03,957 --> 01:24:07,794
Mr. Natural unscrews the clamp,
pulls this pipe out of her.
1275
01:24:07,877 --> 01:24:09,796
Then he reaches in there.
1276
01:24:09,879 --> 01:24:12,966
This is probably the most sickening,
disturbing panel in the whole story.
1277
01:24:13,049 --> 01:24:15,885
Aline says this is the most disturbing part
of the whole thing.
1278
01:24:15,969 --> 01:24:19,514
He's pulling real hard, and he pulls
her head back out by her tongue.
1279
01:24:19,597 --> 01:24:22,892
Her head was actually inside
her body all the time.
1280
01:24:22,976 --> 01:24:26,896
Again, Foont is very shocked,
but then he's relieved that her head is back.
1281
01:24:26,980 --> 01:24:30,692
Mr. Natural says, "Yeah, old African
witch doctor stuff. Nothing special."
1282
01:24:30,775 --> 01:24:33,361
And she just says, "That was so weird!"
1283
01:24:33,445 --> 01:24:35,071
Mr. Natural says, "Yep."
1284
01:24:35,155 --> 01:24:38,742
Then they both realize
the head's back, the trouble's back.
1285
01:24:38,825 --> 01:24:42,537
She says, what happened to her
and what did Mr. Natural do to her...
1286
01:24:42,620 --> 01:24:45,707
and where does he get his crazy ideas?
1287
01:24:45,790 --> 01:24:50,128
At this point, Foont, he feels so guilty,
he starts apologizing to the devil girl...
1288
01:24:50,211 --> 01:24:54,257
for having, like, done the deed to her
when she didn't have her head.
1289
01:24:54,340 --> 01:24:56,384
She says, "What are you saying?"
1290
01:24:56,468 --> 01:25:01,723
She suddenly realizes that Mr. Natural had
handed her over to Foont for him to play with.
1291
01:25:01,806 --> 01:25:06,019
She says, "You gave me to that shmuck
to play with as if I was a piece of meat?"
1292
01:25:06,102 --> 01:25:08,772
He says, "Aw, what the hell's the difference?"
1293
01:25:08,855 --> 01:25:11,065
So he tries to get away,
and she's chasing him.
1294
01:25:11,149 --> 01:25:13,902
In the end, she's raging with anger
and she says...
1295
01:25:13,985 --> 01:25:17,405
"Where's a butcher knife?
I'm going to cut both your heads off!"
1296
01:25:17,489 --> 01:25:19,699
Typical comic book ending.
1297
01:25:19,783 --> 01:25:24,287
I see a — a theme
running through his work...
1298
01:25:24,370 --> 01:25:26,372
that — that is very frightening...
1299
01:25:26,456 --> 01:25:31,002
and it's the woman with her head
either cut off or somehow distorted —
1300
01:25:31,085 --> 01:25:34,297
something done to it
so that nothing is left but the body.
1301
01:25:34,380 --> 01:25:37,300
And the body, of course,
you can have sex with.
1302
01:25:37,383 --> 01:25:40,053
When, for instance, Crumb draws...
1303
01:25:40,136 --> 01:25:42,639
that little monster, Mr. Natural...
1304
01:25:42,722 --> 01:25:46,643
doing things that you or I would not normally
contemplate doing with a headless woman...
1305
01:25:46,726 --> 01:25:48,436
in that the, uh —
1306
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:52,732
It is not intended, I imagine,
to be a sort of apologia for beheading...
1307
01:25:52,816 --> 01:25:55,151
or an apologia for rape
or anything like that, no.
1308
01:25:55,235 --> 01:25:58,154
But it is an acknowledgement
that these kinds of fantasy...
1309
01:25:58,238 --> 01:26:01,491
actually do dwell in Homo sapiens —
they're there.
1310
01:26:01,574 --> 01:26:05,495
I'm saying that it's very irresponsible...
1311
01:26:05,578 --> 01:26:10,875
to put dangerous sexual fantasies...
1312
01:26:10,959 --> 01:26:12,877
on paper...
1313
01:26:12,961 --> 01:26:16,297
and make them available to the public.
1314
01:26:16,381 --> 01:26:20,969
It's important for women to not just run
in horror from pornographic images...
1315
01:26:21,052 --> 01:26:24,764
and immediately think
that they represent oppression...
1316
01:26:24,848 --> 01:26:28,226
and the power of men
to degrade women...
1317
01:26:28,309 --> 01:26:32,981
and to think, sometimes,
about the fact that they often are —
1318
01:26:33,064 --> 01:26:35,567
They're fantasies of having power.
1319
01:26:35,650 --> 01:26:39,195
They're fantasies
of being able to dominate, um...
1320
01:26:39,279 --> 01:26:43,241
that come out of a fear
of precisely the opposite —
1321
01:26:43,324 --> 01:26:47,120
fear of not being able
to be attractive to women.
1322
01:26:47,203 --> 01:26:49,372
Impotence fears.
1323
01:26:49,455 --> 01:26:53,543
And, uh, fears of powerlessness in general.
1324
01:26:53,626 --> 01:26:56,212
How do you feel about the way
he depicts women in his comics?
1325
01:26:56,296 --> 01:26:59,924
Well, he just depicts his id
in its pure form, I think.
1326
01:27:00,008 --> 01:27:03,595
You know, the dark side
of human nature is in every person.
1327
01:27:03,678 --> 01:27:05,798
That's what I was drawn to in his work
to begin with —
1328
01:27:05,847 --> 01:27:09,767
that he just, like, really could
illustrate that really clearly.
1329
01:27:09,851 --> 01:27:13,062
It's really unusual to see it.
I think it's always there, you know?
1330
01:27:13,146 --> 01:27:15,940
- Does any of that bother you?
- No, he's really —
1331
01:27:16,024 --> 01:27:19,402
He's not like that in other ways,
as a person.
1332
01:27:19,485 --> 01:27:22,572
- He gets it out in his artwork. I mean —
- He fools around with other women.
1333
01:27:22,655 --> 01:27:25,408
- How do you deal with that?
- I fool around with other men.
1334
01:27:26,993 --> 01:27:29,954
I have these hostilities toward women.
I admit it.
1335
01:27:30,038 --> 01:27:33,875
I'm — It's out in the open.
I have to put it out there, you know?
1336
01:27:33,958 --> 01:27:36,753
Sometimes I think it's a mistake.
I should never have let it out.
1337
01:27:36,836 --> 01:27:39,797
I'd be, you know, more well-loved,
and I'd be just —
1338
01:27:39,881 --> 01:27:43,551
The whole thing would be a lot simpler
and easier and cleaner if I didn't let it out.
1339
01:27:43,635 --> 01:27:47,055
But it's in there,
and — and it's very strong...
1340
01:27:47,138 --> 01:27:50,683
and it ruthlessly puts —
1341
01:27:50,767 --> 01:27:53,436
forces itself out of me
onto the paper, you know...
1342
01:27:53,519 --> 01:27:55,772
for better or worse.
1343
01:27:55,855 --> 01:27:59,108
When I was, um, about nine or 10,
my brother used to collect Zap Comix.
1344
01:27:59,192 --> 01:28:03,655
And when I saw those,
they really deeply, deeply terrified me.
1345
01:28:03,738 --> 01:28:05,782
Oh, Jesus. Oh!
1346
01:28:05,865 --> 01:28:09,535
I was deeply upset, and I looked at them
and thought, you know, on some level...
1347
01:28:09,619 --> 01:28:13,122
"This is what I — This is adulthood?
This is what adult women are?
1348
01:28:13,206 --> 01:28:15,124
This is what I grow up into?"
1349
01:28:15,208 --> 01:28:17,210
- And it was horrifying.
- Oh, my God.
1350
01:28:17,293 --> 01:28:20,797
And I wonder if you think about
the effect on people who read it...
1351
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:24,050
or what you're validating for boys, or —
1352
01:28:24,133 --> 01:28:28,972
I just hope that-that somehow revealing
that truth about myself is somehow helpful.
1353
01:28:29,055 --> 01:28:32,100
I don't know. I just hope that it is.
But I have to do it.
1354
01:28:32,183 --> 01:28:34,310
Maybe — Maybe I shouldn't be allowed.
1355
01:28:34,394 --> 01:28:37,397
Maybe I should be locked up
and my pencils taken away from me.
1356
01:28:37,480 --> 01:28:40,692
I just don't know.
I really can't say, you know?
1357
01:28:40,775 --> 01:28:42,694
I can't defend myself.
1358
01:28:42,777 --> 01:28:45,780
You know, like, my daughter Sophie
was watching Goodfellas.
1359
01:28:45,863 --> 01:28:47,782
We bought a videotape of it.
1360
01:28:47,865 --> 01:28:50,910
The violent part horrified her so deeply,
she started getting a stomachache.
1361
01:28:50,994 --> 01:28:52,996
I shut it off, wouldn't let her watch it.
1362
01:28:53,079 --> 01:28:55,373
Although I think it's a great movie,
truthful movie.
1363
01:28:55,456 --> 01:28:59,168
I got a lot out of seeing it.
It's obviously not for a kid, you know.
1364
01:28:59,252 --> 01:29:02,880
Sometimes, you know,
certain harsh realities of life are —
1365
01:29:02,964 --> 01:29:06,092
You know, you've got to kind of protect
your kids a little bit from that.
1366
01:29:06,175 --> 01:29:09,470
They don't understand a lot of things yet.
Not everything's for children.
1367
01:29:09,554 --> 01:29:11,681
Not everything's for everybody, you know.
1368
01:29:11,764 --> 01:29:17,353
Have you gotten criticism about
the way you sometimes draw black people?
1369
01:29:17,437 --> 01:29:20,857
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
But it all came from white liberals.
1370
01:29:20,940 --> 01:29:25,361
Here's an example of the kind of
thing I'm talking about in "Ooga Booga."
1371
01:29:25,445 --> 01:29:28,448
It's actually a mockery of black people.
1372
01:29:28,531 --> 01:29:32,744
It's sort of a vomiting up
of Crumb's own racism...
1373
01:29:32,827 --> 01:29:37,832
his own deepest, um, hostilities and fears.
1374
01:29:37,915 --> 01:29:41,085
Of course, if you have a knee-jerk reaction,
and that's as far as you get...
1375
01:29:41,169 --> 01:29:43,379
then you say he's a racist.
1376
01:29:43,463 --> 01:29:47,216
But once you start thinking about
how he's toying with that...
1377
01:29:47,300 --> 01:29:50,636
and how he's shoving it in your face...
1378
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:53,139
you start to think about your attitudes...
1379
01:29:53,222 --> 01:29:56,184
and you start to think about the stereotypes —
how they came about.
1380
01:29:56,267 --> 01:29:58,186
You know, it gets very complicated.
1381
01:29:59,896 --> 01:30:02,231
All that stuff I did in the late '60s...
1382
01:30:02,315 --> 01:30:05,109
I didn't really know what it was about
when I did it.
1383
01:30:05,193 --> 01:30:06,861
It was all very instinctive.
1384
01:30:06,944 --> 01:30:08,946
Somehow, the L.S.D. liberated me
in this way...
1385
01:30:09,030 --> 01:30:13,701
that allowed me to just put it down
and not worry about what it meant.
1386
01:30:13,785 --> 01:30:16,412
I had some vague idea
that it meant something...
1387
01:30:16,496 --> 01:30:21,084
but it's only later that I'd look at it
and kind of analyze it and see what it's about.
1388
01:30:21,167 --> 01:30:26,214
Somehow, the term "nigger hearts"
just came into my mind...
1389
01:30:26,297 --> 01:30:28,216
as a product, you know?
1390
01:30:28,299 --> 01:30:31,552
It's like it's some black, deep thing...
1391
01:30:31,636 --> 01:30:34,764
in American, you know,
collective mind or something...
1392
01:30:34,847 --> 01:30:39,477
that has to do with turning
everything over for a buck.
1393
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:43,189
I don't know. I'm not sure exactly,
but it has some message like that.
1394
01:30:43,272 --> 01:30:45,274
Quite a number of people these days...
1395
01:30:45,358 --> 01:30:47,902
would like this sort of
nice, milky vision of culture...
1396
01:30:47,985 --> 01:30:50,947
in which it's all rather improving
and leads us all towards...
1397
01:30:51,030 --> 01:30:53,950
this sort of nice little
pie-in-the-sky moral heaven...
1398
01:30:54,033 --> 01:30:57,036
where nobody's nasty to anybody else.
1399
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:00,123
But the only thing is that,
you know, literature, culture, art...
1400
01:31:00,206 --> 01:31:03,876
isn't put there in order to have
that pleasant, normative effect.
1401
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:08,548
You know, conservatives like to think that
great works of art lead us towards democracy.
1402
01:31:08,631 --> 01:31:10,299
Bull, you know.
1403
01:31:10,383 --> 01:31:14,595
I mean, there are speeches in Shakespeare
that are so full of hatred for the mob.
1404
01:31:14,679 --> 01:31:17,557
They're passionately elitist,
passionately antidemocratic.
1405
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,476
What do you do with somebody like Céline,
who was a Nazi sympathizer...
1406
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:22,478
but at the same time a great novelist?
1407
01:31:22,562 --> 01:31:25,165
What do you do with — Well, what
do you do with practically anybody...
1408
01:31:25,189 --> 01:31:28,985
who's got a vision of the world that doesn't
accord with the present standards of Berkeley?
1409
01:32:22,705 --> 01:32:26,542
They're all wearing Raiders and 49ers jackets.
1410
01:32:26,626 --> 01:32:31,547
- Sophie wants us to get her a 49ers jacket.
- She does?
1411
01:32:31,631 --> 01:32:34,133
Why do you want to live in the midst of it?
1412
01:32:34,217 --> 01:32:37,094
Like Hamlet, I'm too scared to kill myself.
1413
01:32:37,178 --> 01:32:40,514
So you're gonna move to the south of France.
You gonna miss all this?
1414
01:32:40,598 --> 01:32:44,644
I'll be out of here in a couple
more months. I can't live in it.
1415
01:32:44,727 --> 01:32:48,147
I can't take it.
1416
01:32:48,231 --> 01:32:50,149
Oh! My God.
1417
01:32:51,484 --> 01:32:55,404
They can't wait to have the money
to get their hands on this stuff.
1418
01:32:55,488 --> 01:32:58,074
- ¡Ay caramba!
- ¡Ay caramba!
1419
01:33:00,493 --> 01:33:02,411
¡Ay caramba!
1420
01:33:05,414 --> 01:33:07,333
It's a beautiful world.
1421
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:17,593
So you gonna finish this one pretty soon?
1422
01:33:17,677 --> 01:33:21,597
I don't know. It depends on when I'm gonna
have a chance to pick up an oil brush again.
1423
01:33:21,681 --> 01:33:24,141
- You worked on this recently, right?
- Uh —
1424
01:33:24,225 --> 01:33:27,329
- Did you do something to this recently?
- I don't know when was the last time I painted.
1425
01:33:27,353 --> 01:33:29,623
When I was actually working on that,
I was actually thinking of Dian Hanson —
1426
01:33:29,647 --> 01:33:32,441
that portrait of a New York floozy
you were running with.
1427
01:33:32,525 --> 01:33:34,944
Oh, gosh.
1428
01:33:35,027 --> 01:33:39,448
- This one here?
- Yeah. This is a portrait number, you know.
1429
01:33:39,532 --> 01:33:41,951
I keep putting things together
and watch the paint do stuff.
1430
01:33:42,034 --> 01:33:44,096
How come you put
that metallic-looking brassiere on her?
1431
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:46,580
It has something to do
with her personality was like that.
1432
01:33:46,664 --> 01:33:50,126
She has, like, a very hard,
armored personality. You know.
1433
01:33:50,209 --> 01:33:52,211
And she was a broad underneath it.
1434
01:33:52,295 --> 01:33:55,840
I think that she would find that really
disturbing — that thing you put on her there.
1435
01:33:55,923 --> 01:34:00,469
It actually just reflects the personality —
sort of icy, almost crazed expression in the eyes.
1436
01:34:00,553 --> 01:34:03,973
But there's, like, a warmth and reluctance
in the smile or something.
1437
01:34:04,056 --> 01:34:05,975
- You know what I mean?
- Ah. Interesting.
1438
01:34:06,058 --> 01:34:08,060
- She's in therapy now.
- She is?
1439
01:34:08,144 --> 01:34:10,604
Yeah. She doesn't need therapy.
1440
01:34:10,688 --> 01:34:12,928
She fucks too hard.
How do you cure that except by death?
1441
01:34:12,982 --> 01:34:14,317
Oh!
1442
01:34:15,901 --> 01:34:19,363
You start from a blob.
When you do ink work, you start from a line.
1443
01:34:19,447 --> 01:34:22,491
Somehow, being fixated with —
1444
01:34:22,575 --> 01:34:26,203
Like that one over there. And this is also
an example of being fixated with line.
1445
01:34:26,287 --> 01:34:28,956
I started, like, getting these very detailed —
1446
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:34,211
You can see a very distinct line thing,
you know, in the character of it.
1447
01:34:34,295 --> 01:34:36,547
You're pleased with this
when you look at it now?
1448
01:34:36,630 --> 01:34:38,466
I like this style a lot.
1449
01:34:39,550 --> 01:34:43,179
This is Van Gogh
shooting himself in a cornfield.
1450
01:34:43,262 --> 01:34:45,222
What's the corn? What's that about?
1451
01:34:45,306 --> 01:34:47,767
It's like that Walt Whitman line.
1452
01:34:47,850 --> 01:34:50,853
"Quintillions ripen'd
and the quintillions green."
1453
01:34:50,936 --> 01:34:55,858
He was out picking fruit, or picking —
He was a transient picker.
1454
01:34:55,941 --> 01:34:59,236
He just, like, came to this realization.
It was an abundance of the farm thing.
1455
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:02,114
The abundance of plant growth.
1456
01:35:02,198 --> 01:35:04,593
He wrote this line.
"Quintillions ripen'd and the quintillions green."
1457
01:35:04,617 --> 01:35:08,496
- The same thing with corn.
- This is a stylized Van Gogh painting.
1458
01:35:08,579 --> 01:35:10,664
Corn has, like, infinite ability,
like primal nature.
1459
01:35:10,748 --> 01:35:13,459
What's with Van Gogh shooting himself?
1460
01:35:13,542 --> 01:35:18,881
His mind went to the place where there's
this infinite abundance, like in an ear of corn.
1461
01:35:18,964 --> 01:35:21,884
- He blew his —
- This is the first oil painting
you ever did, isn't it?
1462
01:35:21,967 --> 01:35:23,945
- Huh?
- Isn't this the first oil painting you ever did?
1463
01:35:23,969 --> 01:35:25,513
That's the first oil I ever did, yeah.
1464
01:35:25,596 --> 01:35:28,724
You never drew before,
and it suddenly just came out.
1465
01:35:28,808 --> 01:35:31,328
- It was like something
was released inside of you.
- Something like that.
1466
01:35:31,352 --> 01:35:33,413
I had that first epileptic fit.
It was in the sixth grade.
1467
01:35:33,437 --> 01:35:36,857
- I was drawing this picture of my face
with charcoal in art class.
- Really?
1468
01:35:36,941 --> 01:35:40,152
I said, "Hey, man, you can draw. Look at this."
It started working out.
1469
01:35:40,236 --> 01:35:42,822
It's the first time
I had this artistic experience, you know.
1470
01:35:42,905 --> 01:35:46,242
But it was so violent to me
that I had a fucking seizure or something.
1471
01:35:46,325 --> 01:35:49,328
Ended up in the hospital the next day
or something.
1472
01:35:50,538 --> 01:35:54,083
This is probably one of the last comic covers
Charles ever did.
1473
01:35:54,166 --> 01:35:56,794
It might even be the very last one.
1474
01:35:56,877 --> 01:35:59,422
His psychotic bunny rabbits.
1475
01:35:59,505 --> 01:36:01,549
In our late teens, I persuaded Charles...
1476
01:36:01,632 --> 01:36:05,094
that we should send away
for the Famous Artists Talent Test.
1477
01:36:05,177 --> 01:36:08,556
They used to have these ads in magazines.
We each sent away for this test.
1478
01:36:08,639 --> 01:36:11,684
I did mine completely legitimately,
the way you were supposed to.
1479
01:36:11,767 --> 01:36:14,270
But Charles couldn't help himself.
1480
01:36:14,353 --> 01:36:18,107
You were supposed to, uh, complete
the outline figure by drawing a costume on it.
1481
01:36:18,190 --> 01:36:20,443
But he put these pasties on her tits...
1482
01:36:20,526 --> 01:36:24,655
and then started drawing these weird,
psychotic characters in the background.
1483
01:36:24,738 --> 01:36:26,782
Psychotic Mickey Mouse.
1484
01:36:26,866 --> 01:36:29,618
They had an outline
of this barn and this tree.
1485
01:36:29,702 --> 01:36:33,205
You were supposed to, you know,
draw in textures and surfaces.
1486
01:36:33,289 --> 01:36:36,542
They give you suggestions on how to fill in
the textures and all that stuff.
1487
01:36:36,625 --> 01:36:39,503
That's his interpretation of that.
1488
01:36:39,587 --> 01:36:42,923
And here was your ability
to arrange elements in a picture.
1489
01:36:43,007 --> 01:36:45,551
They give you objects.
You're supposed to make an arrangement.
1490
01:36:45,634 --> 01:36:47,887
So he did this and this.
1491
01:36:48,888 --> 01:36:50,806
"Your imagination as an illustrator.
1492
01:36:50,890 --> 01:36:54,643
Complete the picture by adding whatever
other figures and objects you think are necessary."
1493
01:36:54,727 --> 01:36:57,313
So he drew this girl here and this —
1494
01:36:58,981 --> 01:37:04,320
A week after this came in the mail,
this salesman showed up to grade our tests.
1495
01:37:04,403 --> 01:37:07,198
If you got a good grade on the test,
then you got the privilege...
1496
01:37:07,281 --> 01:37:10,659
of paying $400 to take the course.
1497
01:37:10,743 --> 01:37:13,996
And he just looked at Charles,
and was, like —
1498
01:37:14,079 --> 01:37:16,665
at Charles's — at what he had done,
and he was speechless.
1499
01:37:16,749 --> 01:37:18,667
He didn't know what to say.
1500
01:37:18,751 --> 01:37:22,463
He told me mine was very good and I had
a lot of potential and I should take the course.
1501
01:37:22,546 --> 01:37:25,299
But Charles,
he wouldn't even speak to him.
1502
01:37:26,425 --> 01:37:28,844
He was, uh...
1503
01:37:28,928 --> 01:37:31,013
pretty far gone at that point already.
1504
01:37:32,848 --> 01:37:36,018
This is some of his later work after he —
1505
01:37:36,101 --> 01:37:38,604
sort of the end of his comic period.
1506
01:37:38,687 --> 01:37:40,940
It's from 1961. He's about 18.
1507
01:37:41,023 --> 01:37:44,777
He started developing this weird
wrinkle technique in his drawing...
1508
01:37:44,860 --> 01:37:47,530
and it became stranger and stranger.
1509
01:37:47,613 --> 01:37:50,574
Had nothing to do
with the outside world at all.
1510
01:37:50,658 --> 01:37:53,702
Became more and more ingrown
in this way.
1511
01:37:53,786 --> 01:37:57,623
It had to do with his increasing
alienation from the world.
1512
01:37:57,706 --> 01:37:59,625
Isolation.
1513
01:37:59,708 --> 01:38:01,710
He never went to pen and ink either.
1514
01:38:01,794 --> 01:38:05,839
Never got beyond pencil and crayons,
you know.
1515
01:38:08,050 --> 01:38:11,428
This is some of the last
Treasure Island stuff he did.
1516
01:38:11,512 --> 01:38:13,514
This is, like, late '61.
1517
01:38:16,308 --> 01:38:21,146
It's sort of beautifully drawn, except
the wrinkle stuff really gets out of hand here.
1518
01:38:22,147 --> 01:38:25,484
He got more and more obsessed with that.
1519
01:38:26,986 --> 01:38:30,072
It gets real dark-lookin'.
1520
01:38:30,155 --> 01:38:32,283
He had this fascination
with the relationship...
1521
01:38:32,366 --> 01:38:36,203
between the kid and Long John Silver,
the pirate character...
1522
01:38:36,287 --> 01:38:38,998
which he elaborated on endlessly.
1523
01:38:41,333 --> 01:38:45,254
This is one of our two-mans. You can see
that he's gradually added more and more text.
1524
01:38:45,337 --> 01:38:49,258
More and more —
The writing takes over. Look at that.
1525
01:38:49,341 --> 01:38:51,427
He just lost interest in drawing...
1526
01:38:51,510 --> 01:38:54,638
and then he just went
to this loony writing.
1527
01:38:59,393 --> 01:39:04,189
There's a certain phase of Charles's life
that he had this compulsive graphomania.
1528
01:39:04,273 --> 01:39:08,068
He did dozens of these notebooks.
He gave me a bunch of them.
1529
01:39:08,152 --> 01:39:10,946
People kind of found them fascinating.
The writing —
1530
01:39:11,071 --> 01:39:13,866
- This is upside down,
though it doesn't make any difference.
- Really?
1531
01:39:13,949 --> 01:39:17,286
I don't know whether
it's upside down or right side up.
1532
01:39:17,369 --> 01:39:19,038
This is an early one —
1533
01:39:19,121 --> 01:39:21,874
It started out, when he first
started doing it, it was readable...
1534
01:39:21,957 --> 01:39:24,627
and then it became
gradually less and less readable.
1535
01:39:26,712 --> 01:39:30,883
What I definitely need
is some kind of external stimulation...
1536
01:39:30,966 --> 01:39:34,470
to sort of rejuvenate me
and get me going again.
1537
01:39:34,553 --> 01:39:38,140
But I don't know how I'm going
to be able to arrange this eventually.
1538
01:39:38,223 --> 01:39:39,850
I don't know.
1539
01:39:39,933 --> 01:39:42,394
I guess I'll have to start doing that
in a mental hospital.
1540
01:39:45,230 --> 01:39:48,317
I remember this time we were
at Neal's house, and Mary was there.
1541
01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:50,402
Mary said, "I'm bored.
I'm gonna go take a bath."
1542
01:39:50,486 --> 01:39:53,530
So she got up and she went
in the bathroom and — and —
1543
01:39:53,614 --> 01:39:56,659
I told her not to do it.
I told her not to do it.
1544
01:39:56,742 --> 01:39:59,828
Maxon's eyes just sort of glazed over,
and he got all kind of red.
1545
01:39:59,912 --> 01:40:02,831
He just got up as if he was in a trance,
and he went and he —
1546
01:40:02,915 --> 01:40:05,042
he went up to the bathroom.
1547
01:40:05,125 --> 01:40:07,836
I said, "What are you doing?"
He pushed the bathroom door open.
1548
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:11,507
Mary was standing there naked,
and she screamed.
1549
01:40:11,590 --> 01:40:13,592
Maxon? She slammed the door.
1550
01:40:13,676 --> 01:40:17,262
I said, "Maxon, come away from there."
I tried to pull him away from the door.
1551
01:40:17,346 --> 01:40:20,974
He was, like, completely in a trance.
He pushed the door open again.
1552
01:40:21,058 --> 01:40:23,894
Mary yelled again,
and then Maxon fell on the floor...
1553
01:40:23,977 --> 01:40:26,355
and had, like, about an eight-minute seizure.
1554
01:40:27,940 --> 01:40:31,985
So what's with these Oriental women
that you were into at this phase?
1555
01:40:32,069 --> 01:40:35,114
You were particularly attracted
to Oriental women.
1556
01:40:35,197 --> 01:40:37,533
Yeah, I was, when I first started doing this.
1557
01:40:37,616 --> 01:40:39,535
When you were in that phase.
1558
01:40:39,618 --> 01:40:43,497
The phase of molesting women and
getting in trouble with cops and all that stuff.
1559
01:40:43,580 --> 01:40:45,499
Were you actually raping these women?
1560
01:40:45,582 --> 01:40:47,418
No. I didn't get that much into it.
1561
01:40:47,501 --> 01:40:49,270
He'd just tweak them on the street
and run away.
1562
01:40:49,294 --> 01:40:54,094
You've got to do a lot of molesting
before you get to rape. But if you do
a couple years of molesting, you'll get to rape.
1563
01:40:56,009 --> 01:40:58,011
I started molesting when I was, like, 18.
1564
01:40:58,095 --> 01:41:01,515
I started with Chinese women for some
crazy reason, on subways in Philadelphia.
1565
01:41:01,598 --> 01:41:04,518
Then I went through different periods of it,
you know.
1566
01:41:04,601 --> 01:41:06,562
But I'm out of it. It's kind of like —
1567
01:41:06,645 --> 01:41:09,064
I don't know.
It's too much passion, it's too much animal.
1568
01:41:09,148 --> 01:41:12,401
Didn't they put you in some kind of —
in a psycho ward for a few weeks?
1569
01:41:12,484 --> 01:41:16,280
For a couple of weeks. Oh, man.
Two weeks on Haldol will cure anything.
1570
01:41:16,363 --> 01:41:19,700
You'll do anything they tell you
after two weeks on Haldol.
1571
01:41:19,783 --> 01:41:22,536
For a sensible person, it's just terrible.
1572
01:41:22,619 --> 01:41:25,419
You get heavy into molesting,
it's a violent thing, like a crime thing.
1573
01:41:25,456 --> 01:41:28,751
So I get to the point
where I start pulling girls' shorts down.
1574
01:41:28,834 --> 01:41:32,463
I'm walking around this certain district
by the marina, this little shopping district.
1575
01:41:32,546 --> 01:41:36,133
There's this really beautiful
Jewish-looking girl...
1576
01:41:36,216 --> 01:41:38,343
with just, like, obscenely brief shorts on.
1577
01:41:38,427 --> 01:41:40,429
She goes into this, uh —
1578
01:41:40,512 --> 01:41:43,265
She goes into this drugstore, you know.
It's like I'm in a fit.
1579
01:41:43,348 --> 01:41:46,602
I gotta do this to this broad.
She's just too much, you know.
1580
01:41:46,685 --> 01:41:51,565
I gotta do something. I gotta risk my whole life
just to do something to this broad.
1581
01:41:51,648 --> 01:41:54,610
So I go in there —
cold sweat all over the place.
1582
01:41:54,693 --> 01:41:58,280
She doesn't know what's —
She's just casually looking over some shampoo.
1583
01:41:58,363 --> 01:42:01,092
I'm walking around there,
trying not to be obtrusive in this cold sweat.
1584
01:42:01,116 --> 01:42:03,160
She finally goes up to the counter.
1585
01:42:03,243 --> 01:42:05,954
It's like total complete, like,
personal struggle...
1586
01:42:06,038 --> 01:42:09,124
- about this moment I gotta pull this risky trip.
- Oh, my God!
1587
01:42:09,208 --> 01:42:12,419
So I walk up behind her
while she's paying for this fucking shampoo.
1588
01:42:12,503 --> 01:42:15,422
So I grab the bottom of her fuckin' shorts
and I just go —
1589
01:42:15,506 --> 01:42:20,469
Go all the way down,
and her ass pops out like a ripe peach.
1590
01:42:20,552 --> 01:42:24,473
- Oh, God.
- "Oh, Jesus Christ!" she says. "There's someone" —
1591
01:42:24,556 --> 01:42:29,311
Maybe 15 or 20 years from now, I'll be
more willing to talk about it, but not now.
1592
01:42:29,394 --> 01:42:31,855
- I told Maxon about it.
- I've still got too many scruples.
1593
01:42:31,939 --> 01:42:35,275
- Did you tell Maxon about them?
- He just thinks you're putting it on.
1594
01:42:35,359 --> 01:42:38,612
Said, Charles confessed to me
when we were adults...
1595
01:42:38,695 --> 01:42:41,824
that there was a while when we were teenagers
that he had to stifle the urge...
1596
01:42:41,907 --> 01:42:43,867
to stick a butcher knife through my heart.
1597
01:42:43,951 --> 01:42:45,953
Like, he'd be laying in bed at night...
1598
01:42:46,036 --> 01:42:49,665
fighting the urge to go down
to that kitchen and get a knife out.
1599
01:42:49,748 --> 01:42:54,169
Or go down to the basement,
get an ax and bash your skull in with it.
1600
01:42:55,754 --> 01:42:57,954
I told Maxon this,
and he said, "Aah, I don't think so."
1601
01:42:58,006 --> 01:43:01,528
- He didn't believe it.
He thought it was all part of the act.
- He thinks it's part of an act.
1602
01:43:01,552 --> 01:43:04,572
- He thinks the whole thing's an act.
- He thinks my whole mental sickness is an act.
1603
01:43:04,596 --> 01:43:07,742
He thinks you've really got it made,
that you really have a cushy position in things...
1604
01:43:07,766 --> 01:43:10,519
because you got the mother's love
and he didn't.
1605
01:43:10,602 --> 01:43:12,563
That's what he thinks.
1606
01:43:12,646 --> 01:43:16,191
He must think I have certain reasons
for putting on this act.
1607
01:43:16,275 --> 01:43:18,652
What does he think those reasons are?
1608
01:43:18,735 --> 01:43:22,948
I don't think he thinks it out too deeply.
He's just reacting. He's in a state of reacting.
1609
01:43:23,031 --> 01:43:27,077
He still has all this anger and resentment
because he wasn't loved by the mother.
1610
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:30,539
- I know what the homicidal
tendencies stem from now.
- You do?
1611
01:43:30,622 --> 01:43:33,709
It stemmed from
an excessive degree of narcissism.
1612
01:43:33,792 --> 01:43:38,505
It seems to me that all I have to do is overcome
this excessive degree of narcissism...
1613
01:43:38,589 --> 01:43:41,216
and my homicidal tendencies will go away.
1614
01:43:41,300 --> 01:43:44,636
- You still have these tendencies?
- No, they're pretty well gone by now.
1615
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:46,555
You think it's the drugs, or what?
1616
01:43:46,638 --> 01:43:50,893
What's the connection between
narcissism and the homicidal tendencies?
1617
01:43:50,976 --> 01:43:54,479
Well, when narcissism is wounded...
1618
01:43:54,563 --> 01:43:57,065
it wants to strike back at the person
who wounded it.
1619
01:43:57,149 --> 01:43:59,735
- Did I wound your narcissism?
- Many, many times.
1620
01:43:59,818 --> 01:44:02,779
- Oh! Oh, God.
- Many, many times.
1621
01:44:28,013 --> 01:44:30,909
Uh, I made this bed of nails 'cause
I've developed myself in meditation...
1622
01:44:30,933 --> 01:44:33,185
to the point where I have
to use a bed of nails.
1623
01:44:33,268 --> 01:44:36,772
I'm not a very great expert at the nails,
so I cover a portion of the nails...
1624
01:44:36,855 --> 01:44:40,359
with this very thin old bandana
so it's not too painful to me.
1625
01:44:40,442 --> 01:44:44,780
I have to sort of like regulate
the amount of pain that I take with it.
1626
01:44:55,499 --> 01:44:57,960
How long can you sit on those at a time?
1627
01:44:58,043 --> 01:45:01,421
I can sit a couple of hours like this.
This is quite easy.
1628
01:45:01,505 --> 01:45:04,257
So the cloth sort of
cleans your intestines out on the inside.
1629
01:45:04,341 --> 01:45:08,261
Or else you might say
that it gratifies your intestines.
1630
01:45:08,345 --> 01:45:13,058
Every six weeks, very regularly,
I have to pass it through my entire body.
1631
01:45:13,141 --> 01:45:15,102
And, uh...
1632
01:45:15,185 --> 01:45:18,647
it takes three days
for it to come out the other side.
1633
01:45:18,730 --> 01:45:20,983
You don't take the nails
out on the street, right?
1634
01:45:21,066 --> 01:45:24,653
They're prejudiced against people — like,
in the financial district and stuff like that —
1635
01:45:24,736 --> 01:45:27,072
against someone praying in the street.
1636
01:45:27,155 --> 01:45:30,325
You go out with your beggar bowl,
like, just about every day?
1637
01:45:30,409 --> 01:45:33,870
I do that every day. I do it every day, once a day.
It's, like, part of my whole thing.
1638
01:45:33,954 --> 01:45:36,665
At a certain time of day,
I have to go out and meet the public.
1639
01:45:36,748 --> 01:45:39,167
- Put the bowl down, lock in and do it.
- It's your job.
1640
01:45:39,251 --> 01:45:40,919
Yeah, it's a job. It's a dirty job.
1641
01:45:41,003 --> 01:45:45,173
- How long has he had this bed of nails?
- A couple years.
1642
01:45:45,257 --> 01:45:48,677
He sits on it how many times a day?
About three or four times a day?
1643
01:45:48,760 --> 01:45:51,680
- About once a day for a couple hours.
- Does he ever sleep on it?
1644
01:45:51,763 --> 01:45:54,516
No. It's not big enough to sleep on.
He just sits on it.
1645
01:45:54,599 --> 01:45:57,853
- Where did he get this bed of nails?
Did he buy it at some store?
- He made it.
1646
01:45:57,936 --> 01:46:00,689
- You can't buy a bed of nails.
- Just a minute. What is it?
1647
01:46:00,772 --> 01:46:02,816
- What?
- How you holding up?
1648
01:46:02,899 --> 01:46:05,444
Not too badly.
1649
01:46:08,613 --> 01:46:11,616
Remember, Mother,
I'm under the influence of medication.
1650
01:46:13,285 --> 01:46:17,205
And that's probably helping me through
this thing to a certain extent anyway.
1651
01:46:17,289 --> 01:46:20,125
- When did you start taking medication?
- About 20 years ago.
1652
01:46:20,208 --> 01:46:23,545
If only it would do something
about the inner anguish and pain.
1653
01:46:23,628 --> 01:46:26,548
Wasn't that after you attempted suicide,
you started taking those drugs?
1654
01:46:26,631 --> 01:46:29,384
Yeah, I started taking it
after one of my suicide attempts.
1655
01:46:29,468 --> 01:46:33,221
- You drank a bottle of furniture polish.
- Yeah. That was the first time.
1656
01:46:33,305 --> 01:46:38,101
I drank a bottle of furniture polish
and took an overdose of sleeping pills.
1657
01:46:38,185 --> 01:46:41,188
But then I chickened out at the last minute
and went downstairs...
1658
01:46:41,271 --> 01:46:45,275
and asked my mother to take me to the hospital
so I could have my stomach pumped.
1659
01:46:45,358 --> 01:46:47,861
Jesus!
1660
01:46:50,322 --> 01:46:53,116
There were about two or three
other attempts besides that one.
1661
01:46:53,200 --> 01:46:56,286
This morning, you were talking about
getting a lobotomy. Jesus Christ.
1662
01:46:56,369 --> 01:46:59,706
- Yes, well — Why not?
- Why not?
1663
01:47:01,249 --> 01:47:03,168
God. Grim. It's grim.
1664
01:47:03,251 --> 01:47:08,757
Charles told me — He confessed to me that
when he first saw Treasure Island in 1950...
1665
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:13,553
he developed this crush on Bobby Driscoll,
and it never went away.
1666
01:47:13,637 --> 01:47:16,264
Bobby Driscoll's the kid
who plays Jim Hawkins.
1667
01:47:16,348 --> 01:47:21,103
And the root of this whole obsession
was this kid that was in the movie.
1668
01:47:21,186 --> 01:47:25,690
He was drawing this Bobby Driscoll,
this kid, you know, endlessly.
1669
01:47:26,691 --> 01:47:28,944
And when he told me this, I was shocked.
1670
01:47:29,027 --> 01:47:31,738
I had no idea that's what it was about.
1671
01:47:31,822 --> 01:47:34,950
I guess it's caused him
a lot of torment in his life, you know.
1672
01:47:35,033 --> 01:47:39,621
He's never been able
to have any real sexual life at all.
1673
01:47:39,704 --> 01:47:41,581
He's never had sex.
1674
01:47:42,582 --> 01:47:45,293
I don't think any of them got out, Mother.
1675
01:47:45,377 --> 01:47:47,963
The other night when she yelled out,
"Get the hell out of here!"
1676
01:47:48,046 --> 01:47:50,173
and I said, "Who's she talking to?"
what'd you say?
1677
01:47:50,257 --> 01:47:52,968
I said, "She's being pursued
by invisible enemies."
1678
01:47:55,554 --> 01:47:58,682
- Who does she think they are?
- I don't know exactly.
1679
01:47:58,765 --> 01:48:02,185
- It's sort of hard to tell.
- You — You get the residue of her —
1680
01:48:02,269 --> 01:48:03,937
- Charles!
- What?
1681
01:48:04,020 --> 01:48:06,398
- Fix that curtain in the hallway.
- Okay.
1682
01:48:09,860 --> 01:48:13,113
- Brought the whole thing down.
You can't do that.
- The curtain in the hallway.
1683
01:48:38,513 --> 01:48:40,432
- Come here.
- What?
1684
01:48:40,515 --> 01:48:42,434
Come here.
1685
01:48:43,935 --> 01:48:45,854
Let me see that there, please?
1686
01:48:45,937 --> 01:48:47,856
Thanks.
1687
01:48:51,318 --> 01:48:53,320
Let me show you the —
1688
01:48:54,446 --> 01:48:56,448
I did that one, and I did that one.
1689
01:48:56,531 --> 01:49:00,076
- That looks good.
- Let me show you what one it is.
1690
01:49:02,204 --> 01:49:04,122
Dad.
1691
01:49:05,957 --> 01:49:08,376
This is my character, Dad.
1692
01:49:08,460 --> 01:49:11,129
- That's your character?
- Yeah, yeah.
1693
01:49:11,213 --> 01:49:13,215
- What are biscuit teeth?
- Her dog!
1694
01:49:14,925 --> 01:49:16,885
Biscuit Teeth.
1695
01:49:16,968 --> 01:49:19,471
- That's her dog?
- Yeah!
1696
01:49:19,554 --> 01:49:21,932
It's good the way it is.
1697
01:49:22,015 --> 01:49:25,018
- Give me a break.
- There. Isn't that a lot better? Look.
1698
01:49:26,061 --> 01:49:27,979
Much better.
1699
01:49:29,189 --> 01:49:32,275
Everything has to be black and white.
Everything has to be old-fashioned.
1700
01:49:32,359 --> 01:49:36,655
No. It just looks better like that.
1701
01:49:36,738 --> 01:49:40,116
The old man, I think,
took off pretty much for good...
1702
01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:44,412
when I was probably, I don't know,
five or six years old, I guess.
1703
01:49:44,496 --> 01:49:47,415
I can't really remember
that period of time very well...
1704
01:49:47,499 --> 01:49:49,960
but I didn't really see him
too regularly after that.
1705
01:49:50,043 --> 01:49:53,713
You know, he was over here, really,
for the most part. Madison, Dixon.
1706
01:49:53,797 --> 01:49:55,840
Kind of gone most of the time.
1707
01:49:55,924 --> 01:49:59,761
He has sort of — I think he has
sort of a hard time emotionally.
1708
01:49:59,844 --> 01:50:01,763
You know, like he can't — I'll —
1709
01:50:01,846 --> 01:50:05,767
Sometimes I'll just feel like I want to
express affection to the old man, you know.
1710
01:50:05,850 --> 01:50:09,479
Like I feel like I want to put my arm around him
or shake his hand or something...
1711
01:50:09,562 --> 01:50:11,481
or get close in some way.
1712
01:50:11,564 --> 01:50:14,234
He can't do it, you know?
He can't do that.
1713
01:50:18,321 --> 01:50:20,782
- How tight?
- Uh, pretty tight.
1714
01:50:20,865 --> 01:50:23,368
Like that kind of thing?
1715
01:50:23,451 --> 01:50:25,662
What a disaster this is,
taking these records out.
1716
01:50:25,745 --> 01:50:28,581
I was planning just to live here till I died.
1717
01:50:28,665 --> 01:50:32,711
I didn't want to move out of this place
and move all these damn records.
1718
01:50:34,004 --> 01:50:35,964
That'll teach you to have a hobby.
1719
01:50:36,047 --> 01:50:40,135
Jesus. Be careful with those.
You break 'em, I'll kill you. God.
1720
01:50:40,218 --> 01:50:43,513
Oy. My copy of Frank Bunch
and His Fuzzy Wuzzies.
1721
01:50:46,558 --> 01:50:48,977
Put those over there on that futon.
1722
01:50:49,060 --> 01:50:51,563
Tight as you can.
1723
01:50:51,646 --> 01:50:53,982
Pull it out, and I'll cut it.
1724
01:50:54,065 --> 01:50:56,484
Jesus, that wife of mine.
1725
01:50:56,568 --> 01:50:59,738
Getting me to move to France,
for God's sake.
1726
01:50:59,821 --> 01:51:03,658
But it's too late now.
The die is cast.
1727
01:52:45,260 --> 01:52:48,012
A lot of the stuff is in here,
and some of it's in there.
1728
01:52:48,096 --> 01:52:50,598
So I guess pulling up to here
would be the best thing.
1729
01:52:50,682 --> 01:52:53,101
- Or I don't know.
- Okay. We'll have to take a look.
1730
01:52:53,184 --> 01:52:55,854
- We got some plywood
we can put right down here.
- Okay. Good.
1731
01:52:55,937 --> 01:53:00,024
She's having a ball out there,
telling those guys what to do.
1732
01:53:04,154 --> 01:53:07,866
God. Giant trucks are here, everything.
1733
01:53:07,949 --> 01:53:09,617
It's embarrassing.
1734
01:53:14,998 --> 01:53:17,000
Oy, yoy, yoy, yoy, yoy.
1735
01:53:17,083 --> 01:53:21,212
You think those guys look like they're gonna
be sensitive to my record collection?
1736
01:53:21,296 --> 01:53:24,090
Bunch of football jocks.
1737
01:53:24,174 --> 01:53:28,178
"What do ya got here?
A bunch of old albums or somethin'?"
1738
01:53:32,515 --> 01:53:34,726
Is there anything you're
gonna miss about this country?
1739
01:53:34,809 --> 01:53:38,646
A certain relaxed quality that people
have here that Europeans don't have.
1740
01:53:38,730 --> 01:53:41,983
- They're much more formal and everything.
- America's a big "slobville."
1741
01:53:42,066 --> 01:53:46,404
Yeah. It's, like, I went up to get
my friend's belongings up in Eureka.
1742
01:53:46,488 --> 01:53:49,699
It was at these people's house.
I went through their living room.
1743
01:53:49,782 --> 01:53:53,870
They had this couch that — this chair
that was a gold plastic football helmet...
1744
01:53:53,953 --> 01:53:56,498
with a red and blue padded seat.
1745
01:53:56,581 --> 01:54:01,544
They had, like, these double-wide couches
and a four-foot TV screen with Nintendo.
1746
01:54:01,628 --> 01:54:03,546
It was a Ninja Turtle game on there.
1747
01:54:03,630 --> 01:54:07,425
This, like, giant, fat teenager was just
sitting there, mesmerized at this TV set.
1748
01:54:07,509 --> 01:54:09,820
- You don't see too much of that in France.
- Unbelievable.
1749
01:54:09,844 --> 01:54:11,596
Yeah.
1750
01:54:11,679 --> 01:54:14,516
Robert, how do you feel
about leaving your family here?
1751
01:54:14,599 --> 01:54:18,811
I don't — I don't have any feelings
about it one way or the other.
1752
01:54:18,895 --> 01:54:22,065
- What do I care?
- Never see that mother or brother anyway.
1753
01:54:22,148 --> 01:54:24,192
- He talks to them, like, once a year.
- Yeah.
1754
01:54:24,275 --> 01:54:26,194
But what about Jesse?
1755
01:54:26,277 --> 01:54:28,488
Jesse. He's kind of devastated
that we're leaving.
1756
01:54:28,571 --> 01:54:31,908
But on the other hand, we told him
he could come and stay with us over there...
1757
01:54:31,991 --> 01:54:33,993
so, you know,
he's kind of thrilled about that.
1758
01:54:34,077 --> 01:54:38,414
We gave him $500 for plane fare,
so he's going to come over there.
1759
01:54:38,498 --> 01:54:42,001
- How about Max?
- Yeah? Max I feel kind of bad about...
1760
01:54:42,085 --> 01:54:46,339
'cause he doesn't have
too many other people to talk to.
1761
01:54:46,422 --> 01:54:49,842
I'm probably his closest human relationship
in the world.
1762
01:54:54,264 --> 01:54:56,808
- These all have records in 'em, huh?
- Yes.
1763
01:54:56,891 --> 01:54:59,185
Those 78s you were talking about?
1764
01:54:59,269 --> 01:55:01,604
Yep.
1765
01:55:03,898 --> 01:55:06,901
So I got no patience
for Hollywood bullshit.
1766
01:55:08,361 --> 01:55:11,906
Well, I —
You know, I can't think in those terms.
1767
01:55:11,990 --> 01:55:16,494
I've already got so much of my life wasted
with those people down there.
1768
01:55:16,578 --> 01:55:20,456
Animation? Forget it. No.
I'm not interested in it at all.
1769
01:55:20,540 --> 01:55:24,586
There hasn't been a decent animated film
made in this country since about 1940.
1770
01:55:24,669 --> 01:55:27,880
No, you're not —
Cherry Poptart is an abomination.
1771
01:55:27,964 --> 01:55:30,925
Larry Welz is an idiot.
It's gonna be a piece of garbage.
1772
01:55:31,009 --> 01:55:33,845
I'm not interested. All right.
1773
01:55:33,928 --> 01:55:35,847
So long.
1774
01:55:38,266 --> 01:55:40,226
Jesus.
1775
01:55:40,310 --> 01:55:43,104
That was a three-way conference call
with this guy Charles Webb...
1776
01:55:43,187 --> 01:55:45,106
who's a friend of Dan O'Neill's.
1777
01:55:45,189 --> 01:55:47,525
They're putting together
the Cherry Poptart film.
1778
01:55:47,609 --> 01:55:50,278
They got on the phone
with some guy in L.A.
1779
01:55:50,361 --> 01:55:52,947
Some guy — "Hey! I'm your kind of guy.
1780
01:55:53,031 --> 01:55:55,199
Remember Tommy Toilet? I loved it!"
1781
01:55:59,037 --> 01:56:01,581
- Jesus.
- They want to make a movie or something?
1782
01:56:01,664 --> 01:56:04,125
A Natural film, of course.
1783
01:56:04,208 --> 01:56:07,045
It's a go project.
1784
01:56:07,128 --> 01:56:09,047
Jesus.
1785
01:56:10,131 --> 01:56:15,345
This is how I felt after that last hell week
of you filming me here.
1786
01:56:16,346 --> 01:56:19,974
"How perfectly goddamned delightful
it all is, to be sure."
1787
01:56:20,058 --> 01:56:23,311
When I was a kid, if I ever started
showing any enthusiasm for anything...
1788
01:56:23,394 --> 01:56:25,396
by brother Charles would always say...
1789
01:56:25,480 --> 01:56:29,359
"How perfectly goddamned delightful
it all is, to be sure."
1790
01:56:29,442 --> 01:56:31,736
Always take the wind out of my sails.
1791
01:56:31,819 --> 01:56:34,697
Even though I don't see him often,
whenever I'm with him...
1792
01:56:34,781 --> 01:56:37,909
it revives that real keen awareness of that...
1793
01:56:37,992 --> 01:56:43,498
of this being very removed
or, you know, extremely separated...
1794
01:56:43,581 --> 01:56:46,084
from the rest of humanity
and the world in general...
1795
01:56:46,167 --> 01:56:48,795
which I kind of like —
I like that feeling.
1796
01:56:48,878 --> 01:56:52,757
"How perfectly
goddamned delightful it all is."
1797
01:57:26,207 --> 01:57:30,211
Fix it, Charles.
Put that towel up the way I had it.
1798
01:57:30,294 --> 01:57:32,296
No, first put the towel up.
1799
01:57:34,090 --> 01:57:36,718
Watch you don't pull the shade
all the way off the thing.
1800
01:57:36,801 --> 01:57:38,720
I won't.
1801
01:57:41,222 --> 01:57:44,559
Can't come in
and disrupt people's house like this.
1802
01:57:44,642 --> 01:57:48,062
- Where are the babies?
- I don't know. I think the little girl is in my room.
163777
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