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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,252 --> 00:00:02,962 (silence) 2 00:00:27,611 --> 00:00:29,572 (music plays) 3 00:01:10,571 --> 00:01:12,073 "In my grandmother's dining room 4 00:01:12,239 --> 00:01:13,532 there was a glass-fronted cabinet 5 00:01:13,699 --> 00:01:16,243 and in the cabinet, a piece of skin. 6 00:01:16,410 --> 00:01:18,204 It was a small piece only, 7 00:01:18,370 --> 00:01:21,665 but thick and leathery with strands of coarse, reddish hair. 8 00:01:21,832 --> 00:01:24,502 It was stuck to a card with a rusty pin. 9 00:01:24,668 --> 00:01:27,338 On the card was some writing in faded black ink, 10 00:01:27,505 --> 00:01:29,590 but I was too young then to read. 11 00:01:29,757 --> 00:01:33,260 'What's that?' 'A piece of brontosaurus.' 12 00:01:35,429 --> 00:01:38,307 My mother knew the names of two prehistoric animals, 13 00:01:38,474 --> 00:01:39,892 the brontosaurus and the mammoth. 14 00:01:40,059 --> 00:01:41,811 She knew it was not a mammoth, 15 00:01:41,977 --> 00:01:44,146 mammoths came from Siberia. 16 00:01:45,815 --> 00:01:47,358 The brontosaurus, I learned, 17 00:01:47,525 --> 00:01:49,151 was an animal that had drowned in the flood, 18 00:01:49,318 --> 00:01:52,196 being too big for Noah to ship aboard the ark. 19 00:01:52,696 --> 00:01:56,492 I pictured a shaggy, lumbering creature with claws and fangs 20 00:01:56,659 --> 00:01:58,744 and a malicious green light in its eyes, 21 00:01:58,911 --> 00:02:02,289 sometimes the brontosaurus would crash through the bedroom wall 22 00:02:02,456 --> 00:02:04,625 and wake me from my sleep. 23 00:02:04,792 --> 00:02:08,087 This particular brontosaurus had lived in Patagonia, 24 00:02:08,254 --> 00:02:11,132 a country in South America at the far end of the world. 25 00:02:12,466 --> 00:02:15,553 Thousands of years before it'd fallen into a glacier, 26 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:18,264 travelled down a mountain in a prison of blue ice 27 00:02:18,430 --> 00:02:21,016 and arrived in perfect condition at the bottom. 28 00:02:21,183 --> 00:02:22,476 Here my grandmother's cousin, 29 00:02:22,643 --> 00:02:24,478 Charlie Milward, the sailor, found it." 30 00:02:42,746 --> 00:02:45,499 Herzog: In the footsteps of Bruce Chatwin, 31 00:02:45,666 --> 00:02:49,545 we ended up at this shipwreck in Punta Arenas 32 00:02:49,712 --> 00:02:52,464 at the southern tip of South America. 33 00:02:53,340 --> 00:02:57,136 This very wreck Chatwin had photographed 34 00:02:57,303 --> 00:02:59,471 more than four decades ago 35 00:02:59,638 --> 00:03:03,851 and published it in his first book, In Patagonia. 36 00:03:05,561 --> 00:03:09,440 A few times in his life and in my life, 37 00:03:09,607 --> 00:03:12,651 our paths had intersected 38 00:03:12,818 --> 00:03:14,320 and there were points, 39 00:03:14,486 --> 00:03:18,949 landscapes that we had explored independently, 40 00:03:19,116 --> 00:03:20,993 unbeknownst to each other, 41 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,455 sometimes with many years in between. 42 00:03:25,497 --> 00:03:26,332 This ship, 43 00:03:26,498 --> 00:03:29,585 that never reached its destination 44 00:03:29,752 --> 00:03:31,420 was one of these points. 45 00:03:33,505 --> 00:03:35,633 Chatwin: Charlie Milward was captain of a merchant ship 46 00:03:35,799 --> 00:03:38,469 that sank at the entrance to the Strait of Magellan. 47 00:03:38,636 --> 00:03:42,181 He survived the wreck and settled nearby at Punta Arenas 48 00:03:42,348 --> 00:03:44,099 where he ran a ship repairing yard. 49 00:03:44,266 --> 00:03:47,353 The Charlie Milward of my imagination was a god among men, 50 00:03:47,519 --> 00:03:49,271 tall, silent and strong 51 00:03:49,438 --> 00:03:52,233 with black mutton chop whiskers and fierce blue eyes. 52 00:03:53,984 --> 00:03:56,654 The brontosaurus went rotten on its voyage through the tropics 53 00:03:56,820 --> 00:03:59,365 and arrived in London a putrefied mess, 54 00:03:59,531 --> 00:04:02,868 which was why you saw brontosaurus bones in the museum but no skin. 55 00:04:04,828 --> 00:04:06,330 Fortunately, cousin Charlie 56 00:04:06,497 --> 00:04:09,083 had posted a scrap to my grandmother. 57 00:04:11,210 --> 00:04:14,171 Herzog: Chatwin was a writer like no other. 58 00:04:14,338 --> 00:04:19,885 He would craft mythical tales into voyages of the mind. 59 00:04:20,052 --> 00:04:24,181 In this respect, we found out we were kindred spirits, 60 00:04:24,348 --> 00:04:27,643 he as a writer, I as a filmmaker. 61 00:04:28,894 --> 00:04:33,399 In this film here, I will follow a similar erratic quest 62 00:04:33,565 --> 00:04:37,194 for wild characters, strange dreamers 63 00:04:37,361 --> 00:04:41,448 and big ideas about the nature of human existence. 64 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,121 These were the themes Chatwin was obsessed with. 65 00:04:52,501 --> 00:04:54,336 We never had the intention 66 00:04:54,503 --> 00:04:57,840 to make a biographical film on Bruce Chatwin. 67 00:04:58,549 --> 00:05:04,513 In Patagonia brims over with dozens of wild stories, 68 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,348 and we followed a few of them. 69 00:05:08,559 --> 00:05:10,519 (music plays) 70 00:05:11,812 --> 00:05:16,775 Herzog: Since a piece of skin was so important for Chatwin, 71 00:05:16,942 --> 00:05:18,444 we travelled with our camera 72 00:05:18,610 --> 00:05:24,450 to the very cave where it was discovered in 1895. 73 00:05:25,909 --> 00:05:28,829 Chatwin came here as a pilgrim. 74 00:05:29,872 --> 00:05:33,667 His book has made the cave famous. 75 00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:37,463 Today busloads of tourists 76 00:05:37,629 --> 00:05:41,342 seek out the extinct denizen of the crag. 77 00:05:41,508 --> 00:05:43,552 (crowd speaks indistinctly) 78 00:05:49,808 --> 00:05:51,769 (music plays) 79 00:06:02,613 --> 00:06:05,449 We were lucky to meet Karin Eberhard, 80 00:06:05,616 --> 00:06:09,203 the great granddaughter of Hermann Eberhard, 81 00:06:09,370 --> 00:06:11,288 who had found the remains 82 00:06:11,455 --> 00:06:14,750 of the mysterious prehistoric creature. 83 00:06:15,959 --> 00:06:20,422 As children, this was our playground. 84 00:06:21,006 --> 00:06:23,592 We rode in here on horseback. 85 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:26,512 At that time, it was still wild country, 86 00:06:26,678 --> 00:06:29,098 no controls, no official park. 87 00:06:29,264 --> 00:06:34,353 We went with our horses behind those piles of rock here, 88 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,357 cantering around, which created a hollow rumble. 89 00:06:38,524 --> 00:06:41,610 And the tourists at the entrance bolted. 90 00:06:41,777 --> 00:06:45,030 They were afraid some of the vault was collapsing, 91 00:06:45,197 --> 00:06:50,369 until we were caught. 92 00:06:50,536 --> 00:06:53,372 And they threatened to take the horses away from us. 93 00:06:53,539 --> 00:06:55,916 That would have been the ultimate punishment for us. 94 00:06:57,543 --> 00:06:59,086 Herzog: And Hermann Eberhard? 95 00:06:59,253 --> 00:07:02,297 And Hermann Eberhard? He came here with his cousin. 96 00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:05,217 According to one story, 97 00:07:05,384 --> 00:07:07,803 the three of them walked through here 98 00:07:07,970 --> 00:07:13,308 and in the sand, something caught his eye. 99 00:07:14,643 --> 00:07:17,938 He bent down and pulled it out. 100 00:07:18,105 --> 00:07:19,648 It was a piece of fur. 101 00:07:20,482 --> 00:07:26,864 And this piece of fur was covered with long bristly hair. 102 00:07:27,030 --> 00:07:29,825 And there were little knots of bone on it. 103 00:07:30,325 --> 00:07:34,663 And they had no idea from which creature it came. 104 00:07:35,622 --> 00:07:40,836 They took it with them, 105 00:07:42,588 --> 00:07:46,341 and thought it could come from an animal already extinct. 106 00:07:46,508 --> 00:07:51,096 And, as this is very dry ground, it was well-preserved. 107 00:07:52,222 --> 00:07:57,895 They took it home to the farm, and hung it on a tree. 108 00:07:58,061 --> 00:08:00,105 And it hung there for quite a while. 109 00:08:00,272 --> 00:08:03,358 And whoever came, carved off a piece of it. 110 00:08:04,193 --> 00:08:06,612 "'Please can I have the piece of brontosaurus?' 111 00:08:06,778 --> 00:08:10,240 Never in my life have I wanted anything as I wanted that piece of skin. 112 00:08:10,407 --> 00:08:13,619 My grandmother said I should have it one day, perhaps. 113 00:08:13,785 --> 00:08:15,245 And when she died, I said, 114 00:08:15,412 --> 00:08:17,289 'Now I can have the piece of brontosaurus.' 115 00:08:17,456 --> 00:08:19,416 But my mother said, 'Ha, that thing. 116 00:08:19,583 --> 00:08:22,294 I'm afraid we threw that away.' 117 00:08:22,461 --> 00:08:24,922 It took some years to sort the story out. 118 00:08:25,088 --> 00:08:27,466 Charlie Milward's animal was not a brontosaurus 119 00:08:27,633 --> 00:08:30,135 but the Mylodon or giant sloth. 120 00:08:30,302 --> 00:08:32,930 He never found a whole specimen or even a whole skeleton 121 00:08:33,096 --> 00:08:34,431 but some skin and bones 122 00:08:34,598 --> 00:08:36,934 preserved by the cold, dryness, and salt 123 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:40,521 in a cave on Last Hope Sound in Chilean Patagonia." 124 00:08:44,066 --> 00:08:45,859 Herzog: Like Bruce Chatwin, 125 00:08:46,026 --> 00:08:49,279 we went to the cemetery in Punta Arenas 126 00:08:49,446 --> 00:08:53,784 in search of the grave of Charlie Milward, the sailor. 127 00:08:55,452 --> 00:08:56,828 Later in his life, 128 00:08:56,995 --> 00:09:02,918 Charles Milward became British consul in Punta Arenas. 129 00:09:04,002 --> 00:09:07,714 He built this phenomenally ugly house for himself. 130 00:09:08,173 --> 00:09:10,342 (music plays) 131 00:09:11,051 --> 00:09:15,889 Chatwin made a pilgrimage to the museum in La Plata in Argentina, 132 00:09:16,056 --> 00:09:20,227 some 3,000 kilometers further to the north. 133 00:09:21,186 --> 00:09:25,440 Here, the big remaining piece of the mylodon's skin 134 00:09:25,607 --> 00:09:31,655 that Hermann Eberhard had kept hanging on his tree is on display. 135 00:09:32,948 --> 00:09:37,661 Scientists established that this specimen had died 136 00:09:37,828 --> 00:09:40,122 around 10,000 years ago. 137 00:09:40,831 --> 00:09:46,169 Around that time, the giant sloth became extinct altogether. 138 00:09:47,504 --> 00:09:51,049 Amazingly, some of its feces, 139 00:09:51,216 --> 00:09:53,051 the size of footballs, 140 00:09:53,218 --> 00:09:55,929 were preserved almost fresh. 141 00:09:56,555 --> 00:10:01,143 Chatwin himself had found some small pieces of excrement 142 00:10:01,310 --> 00:10:06,064 in the few strands of hair of the creature back in the cave. 143 00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:09,651 This is how the animal looked. 144 00:10:09,818 --> 00:10:12,613 It stood almost 10 feet tall. 145 00:10:16,825 --> 00:10:20,787 Bruce Chatwin had a deep fascination for prehistory. 146 00:10:20,954 --> 00:10:23,373 Obviously, for dinosaurs, 147 00:10:23,540 --> 00:10:27,669 but more so for early branches of human evolution, 148 00:10:27,836 --> 00:10:31,590 which came some 60 million years later. 149 00:10:34,134 --> 00:10:39,056 He visited one of the most famous paleontologists, 150 00:10:39,222 --> 00:10:40,432 Richard Leakey, 151 00:10:40,599 --> 00:10:44,561 who, in Kenya, had excavated the skull of a hominid 152 00:10:44,728 --> 00:10:48,398 dating one and a half million years back in time. 153 00:10:49,775 --> 00:10:51,985 And by sheer coincidence, 154 00:10:52,152 --> 00:10:54,905 Chatwin was present in South Africa 155 00:10:55,072 --> 00:10:56,782 at the very moment 156 00:10:56,948 --> 00:11:00,702 when the earliest evidence of human use of fire, 157 00:11:00,869 --> 00:11:04,206 about a million years ago, was discovered. 158 00:11:09,586 --> 00:11:12,130 Chatwin loved this museum. 159 00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:18,637 He fell in love with this particular extinct species of armadillos. 160 00:11:19,805 --> 00:11:22,391 And to me, he once made a cryptic remark 161 00:11:22,557 --> 00:11:24,768 about a flying octopus 162 00:11:24,935 --> 00:11:29,189 that I did not understand until I saw it. 163 00:11:32,317 --> 00:11:35,404 The little cabinet of curiosities 164 00:11:35,570 --> 00:11:37,406 of Bruce's childhood home 165 00:11:37,572 --> 00:11:39,908 does not exist any longer. 166 00:11:40,951 --> 00:11:45,497 And so you could see, when you looked at these objects in the cabinet, 167 00:11:45,664 --> 00:11:48,458 each one of them would have been a story for Bruce, 168 00:11:48,625 --> 00:11:50,711 a kind of... 169 00:11:50,877 --> 00:11:53,463 an emblem of a place he might want to visit. 170 00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:55,841 And so you had a compass point with all the compasses 171 00:11:56,007 --> 00:11:58,468 of the places he then did visit, a Victorian compass. 172 00:11:58,635 --> 00:12:02,639 You had the fish, the arrow hooks from Patagonia, 173 00:12:02,806 --> 00:12:04,474 from his cousin Charlie Milward. 174 00:12:04,641 --> 00:12:07,477 You had this object, 175 00:12:07,644 --> 00:12:12,190 which is the only object left in his collection in the Bodleian. 176 00:12:12,357 --> 00:12:15,569 It's the one object that is here with the notebooks. 177 00:12:15,736 --> 00:12:18,780 And it has... 178 00:12:20,532 --> 00:12:23,160 an inscription on the bottom which... 179 00:12:25,162 --> 00:12:28,039 - is possibly a motto for Bruce- - Just one second here. 180 00:12:31,835 --> 00:12:33,837 It has an inscription on the bottom. 181 00:12:34,004 --> 00:12:36,840 "I am starting for a long journey." 182 00:12:37,007 --> 00:12:40,051 This slightly pot-bellied Victorian traveler. 183 00:12:40,218 --> 00:12:43,597 And that could be Bruce's motto. 184 00:12:44,681 --> 00:12:47,184 He-- His life, in a sense, 185 00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:50,020 is a search for the... 186 00:12:50,187 --> 00:12:52,981 the countries from which these objects originated. 187 00:12:53,148 --> 00:12:55,692 Including the piece of skin? 188 00:12:55,859 --> 00:12:57,068 (cross talking) 189 00:12:57,235 --> 00:13:02,073 And so in a-- in a parody of Jason and the fleece, 190 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,202 Bruce set off for his first book, 191 00:13:05,368 --> 00:13:09,122 to try and find the origin of this fur, 192 00:13:09,289 --> 00:13:12,209 for the kind of, the Golden Fleece, if you like. 193 00:13:12,375 --> 00:13:15,670 It's a kind of a comic version 194 00:13:15,837 --> 00:13:19,341 on which this would be the clothesline 195 00:13:19,508 --> 00:13:22,636 on which he would hang all his stories of how he got there. 196 00:13:22,803 --> 00:13:27,557 And, so this Victorian cabinet, full of these objects, 197 00:13:27,724 --> 00:13:31,520 and if you want to see Bruce's journey first of all mapped out-- 198 00:13:31,686 --> 00:13:33,647 It's mapped out in childhood when he's looking up 199 00:13:33,814 --> 00:13:36,191 to see the sloth skin and the compass 200 00:13:36,358 --> 00:13:38,735 and the fish hooks from Patagonia. 201 00:13:38,902 --> 00:13:41,196 So each of-- each of these objects 202 00:13:41,363 --> 00:13:44,115 had a drama which attracted Bruce, 203 00:13:44,282 --> 00:13:46,243 and which made him want to go to the source of it. 204 00:13:46,409 --> 00:13:49,704 - I think one of the things-- - Ended up in-- in great books. 205 00:13:49,871 --> 00:13:51,957 And it ended up in great books. I mean, one of the things, 206 00:13:52,123 --> 00:13:56,002 as I was working through in the Bodleian Library, 207 00:13:56,169 --> 00:13:57,963 the notebooks... 208 00:13:58,129 --> 00:14:00,090 He used to do cloud formations, 209 00:14:00,257 --> 00:14:02,843 these are plants, telephone numbers, 210 00:14:03,009 --> 00:14:04,302 scraps of conversation. 211 00:14:04,469 --> 00:14:06,721 There's a mountain scene. 212 00:14:08,056 --> 00:14:10,851 This is him going to Captain Eberhard 213 00:14:11,017 --> 00:14:14,062 at the cave where the Mylodon, 214 00:14:14,229 --> 00:14:16,273 the giant sloth skin he finds. 215 00:14:16,439 --> 00:14:18,900 This is the end of In Patagonia. 216 00:14:20,068 --> 00:14:23,446 Of course, in a way... 217 00:14:23,613 --> 00:14:28,618 describing certain things he encountered, facts, 218 00:14:28,785 --> 00:14:32,414 in the pedantic part of the reviewers 219 00:14:32,581 --> 00:14:35,250 who blamed him for making things up, 220 00:14:35,417 --> 00:14:37,085 they were-- they were wrong. 221 00:14:37,252 --> 00:14:40,714 In my opinion, they were wrong because Bruce-- 222 00:14:40,881 --> 00:14:42,841 Sure, he would take facts, 223 00:14:43,008 --> 00:14:45,510 but he would modify them. 224 00:14:45,677 --> 00:14:47,888 But he would modify them in such a way 225 00:14:48,054 --> 00:14:53,184 that they would resemble more truth than reality. 226 00:14:53,351 --> 00:14:56,980 Bruce didn't tell a half-truth, 227 00:14:57,147 --> 00:14:58,732 he told a truth-and-a-half. 228 00:14:58,899 --> 00:15:02,986 He-- he embellished what was there to make it even truer. 229 00:15:04,821 --> 00:15:07,782 (music plays) 230 00:15:09,409 --> 00:15:11,369 (harmonizing) 231 00:15:20,337 --> 00:15:24,674 Herzog: There was also an attraction from early on in Chatwin's life 232 00:15:24,841 --> 00:15:27,177 for mysterious landscapes, 233 00:15:27,344 --> 00:15:29,971 landscapes of his soul. 234 00:15:30,138 --> 00:15:35,018 This stone, for some radiating paranormal energies, 235 00:15:35,185 --> 00:15:38,813 forms part of a vast Neolithic complex 236 00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:41,191 at Avebury in Wiltshire. 237 00:15:42,025 --> 00:15:44,903 From his nearby boarding school in Marlborough, 238 00:15:45,070 --> 00:15:48,907 a young Bruce would ride his bike here all the time. 239 00:15:50,283 --> 00:15:53,536 (harmonizing continues) 240 00:16:15,892 --> 00:16:18,937 Part of this complex is Silbury Hill, 241 00:16:19,104 --> 00:16:22,440 the largest Neolithic structure in the world. 242 00:16:23,608 --> 00:16:26,695 This is where he was somehow centered. 243 00:16:26,861 --> 00:16:28,905 This was his pivot. 244 00:16:29,072 --> 00:16:31,658 His mythical place of origin. 245 00:16:31,825 --> 00:16:35,161 Everything is an echo of this. 246 00:16:40,458 --> 00:16:42,919 (music plays) 247 00:17:23,918 --> 00:17:25,879 (music plays) 248 00:18:36,658 --> 00:18:38,618 (music plays) 249 00:19:06,896 --> 00:19:08,857 So, it's crossing because, 250 00:19:09,023 --> 00:19:11,568 I think-- I think the force is going that way. 251 00:19:13,111 --> 00:19:14,612 Herzog: Can-- can you show us again here? 252 00:19:14,779 --> 00:19:17,532 Do you feel the force? Is it like electric or-- 253 00:19:17,699 --> 00:19:19,617 No, it just-- just crosses. 254 00:19:19,784 --> 00:19:21,411 So, if I went this way now, 255 00:19:21,578 --> 00:19:23,955 in theory it will cross again. 256 00:19:30,170 --> 00:19:31,087 See? 257 00:19:31,254 --> 00:19:33,256 Herzog: Show us again how it crosses. 258 00:19:33,423 --> 00:19:37,010 It just-- (laughs) It's just that easy. It just settles down. It just... 259 00:19:39,345 --> 00:19:41,347 - And you can see 'em wavering - Yeah. 260 00:19:41,514 --> 00:19:43,016 So, there I'm fine. 261 00:19:43,183 --> 00:19:45,560 See, nothing's happening. but as soon as I start to walk... 262 00:19:46,644 --> 00:19:48,146 they cross. 263 00:19:50,648 --> 00:19:52,984 And now it's trying to go the other way, 264 00:19:53,151 --> 00:19:56,571 because it knows the-- I think the force is going that way. 265 00:19:57,780 --> 00:19:59,699 And what forces are they? 266 00:20:00,325 --> 00:20:03,786 They're just possibly magnetic forces that run round the world. 267 00:20:04,704 --> 00:20:08,416 It's... There's lots of them, and Wiltshire is quite prevalent. 268 00:20:08,583 --> 00:20:11,294 They've got quite a lot of lay lines running through Wiltshire. 269 00:20:11,461 --> 00:20:12,962 Possibly why they settled here. 270 00:20:13,129 --> 00:20:16,216 Perhaps our ancestors could feel it, 271 00:20:16,382 --> 00:20:18,259 and that's why they moved here, who knows? 272 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,720 (harmonizing) 273 00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:10,353 Elizabeth: I can sort of visualize him completely here. 274 00:21:11,771 --> 00:21:14,774 You know, and the way he used to come here. 275 00:21:14,941 --> 00:21:17,360 I can see him walking around. 276 00:21:17,527 --> 00:21:18,778 (cuckoo clock sings) 277 00:21:18,945 --> 00:21:21,489 Oh, cuckoo. 278 00:21:24,158 --> 00:21:28,037 Herzog: This is Elizabeth Chatwin, Bruce's widow. 279 00:21:28,204 --> 00:21:31,374 She took us to Llanthony Priory in Wales, 280 00:21:31,541 --> 00:21:34,502 a hideaway during their early courtship. 281 00:21:36,546 --> 00:21:38,423 The landscape around here 282 00:21:38,589 --> 00:21:42,051 became one of the essential locations 283 00:21:42,218 --> 00:21:45,305 where he would find his inner balance. 284 00:21:46,764 --> 00:21:48,933 Elizabeth: Bruce was a nomad, 285 00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:52,895 but he was always drawn back to this place, 286 00:21:53,062 --> 00:21:55,606 the Black Hills in Wales. 287 00:21:56,649 --> 00:21:58,609 This is a dreaming place. 288 00:21:58,776 --> 00:22:00,486 I mean, these hills... 289 00:22:00,653 --> 00:22:02,030 Herzog: His inner landscape? 290 00:22:02,196 --> 00:22:03,906 His inner landscape, yeah. 291 00:22:04,073 --> 00:22:06,034 Landscape of his soul? 292 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:07,493 I think so. 293 00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:10,121 Landscape of his soul, yes. 294 00:22:12,707 --> 00:22:16,044 Herzog: But apart from the idyllic landscapes 295 00:22:16,210 --> 00:22:19,339 that gave a feeling of home, of belonging, 296 00:22:19,505 --> 00:22:23,092 Bruce Chatwin was searching for a strangeness. 297 00:22:24,510 --> 00:22:28,097 He always liked my first feature film for this. 298 00:22:28,806 --> 00:22:31,225 In it, a protagonist, 299 00:22:31,392 --> 00:22:36,105 a German World War II soldier on a reconnaissance mission 300 00:22:36,272 --> 00:22:38,358 suddenly becomes insane 301 00:22:38,524 --> 00:22:43,029 when he stumbles across this valley of 10,000 windmills. 302 00:22:44,781 --> 00:22:47,116 Bruce, in our conversations, 303 00:22:47,283 --> 00:22:49,452 mentioned this scene often. 304 00:22:49,619 --> 00:22:53,623 He coined the term "deranged landscape" for it. 305 00:22:53,790 --> 00:22:57,085 (music plays) 306 00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:57,311 The quest for strangeness was recognized 307 00:23:57,478 --> 00:23:59,439 by others who knew Chatwin. 308 00:24:00,857 --> 00:24:04,610 In Australia, Petronella Vaarzon-Morel, 309 00:24:04,777 --> 00:24:06,279 whom he adored, 310 00:24:06,446 --> 00:24:09,782 wrote in a letter to him a quote from the poet Rilke 311 00:24:09,949 --> 00:24:11,993 that sums it up. 312 00:24:13,953 --> 00:24:15,371 My letter ended, 313 00:24:15,538 --> 00:24:18,833 "I'm reminded of the words of Rainer Maria Rilke: 314 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,378 'That at bottom the only courage that is demanded of us, 315 00:24:22,545 --> 00:24:25,214 to have courage for the most strange, 316 00:24:25,381 --> 00:24:28,384 the most singular and the most inexplicable 317 00:24:28,551 --> 00:24:30,303 that we may encounter. 318 00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:32,221 I'm glad to have met you." 319 00:24:35,099 --> 00:24:38,352 Herzog: It was you who wrote that to him. 320 00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:40,855 - Yes. - To him, yes. 321 00:24:43,357 --> 00:24:46,235 (music plays) 322 00:25:30,905 --> 00:25:34,534 Herzog: As Bruce was after the brontosaurus skin, 323 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:37,745 this was the skin of my fascination. 324 00:25:39,163 --> 00:25:43,292 My quest was rather for weird creatures 325 00:25:43,459 --> 00:25:46,170 of pure science fiction that looked 326 00:25:46,337 --> 00:25:49,507 as if they had landed in what today 327 00:25:49,674 --> 00:25:54,053 are the remains of a Hollywood intergalactic space craft. 328 00:25:55,638 --> 00:25:58,891 This wreck from Star Wars is collecting dust 329 00:25:59,058 --> 00:26:02,603 in Coober Pedy in the Australian outback. 330 00:26:06,107 --> 00:26:10,444 Australia was where our paths crossed for the first time 331 00:26:10,611 --> 00:26:12,572 in 1983. 332 00:26:13,906 --> 00:26:18,119 I was preparing my film, Where The Green Ants Dream, 333 00:26:18,286 --> 00:26:22,415 and Bruce Chatwin was researching aboriginal songs 334 00:26:22,582 --> 00:26:25,334 for his book, The Songlines. 335 00:26:25,501 --> 00:26:29,922 We were both fascinated by aboriginal mythology. 336 00:26:31,924 --> 00:26:35,595 As Bruce never recorded his book, The Songlines, 337 00:26:35,761 --> 00:26:38,639 I will read a passage for him. 338 00:26:41,017 --> 00:26:43,352 "On the surface of the Earth, 339 00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:46,647 the only features were certain hollows 340 00:26:46,814 --> 00:26:50,776 which would, one day, be waterholes. 341 00:26:50,943 --> 00:26:53,696 There were no animals and no plants. 342 00:26:53,863 --> 00:26:56,699 Yet, clustered round the waterholes, 343 00:26:56,866 --> 00:26:59,785 there were pulpy masses of matter. 344 00:26:59,952 --> 00:27:02,788 Lumps of primordial soup, 345 00:27:02,955 --> 00:27:06,834 soundless, sightless, unbreathing, 346 00:27:07,001 --> 00:27:09,795 unawake and unsleeping. 347 00:27:09,962 --> 00:27:13,049 Each containing the essence of life 348 00:27:13,215 --> 00:27:16,552 or the possibility of becoming human. 349 00:27:18,638 --> 00:27:21,432 Beneath the Earth's crust however, 350 00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:25,728 the constellations glimmered, the sun shone, 351 00:27:25,895 --> 00:27:28,814 the moon waxed and waned, 352 00:27:28,981 --> 00:27:32,109 and all the forms of life lay sleeping. 353 00:27:32,777 --> 00:27:35,029 The scarlet of a desert pea, 354 00:27:35,196 --> 00:27:39,408 the iridescence on a butterfly's wing, 355 00:27:39,575 --> 00:27:44,497 the twitching white whiskers of Old Man Kangaroo, 356 00:27:44,664 --> 00:27:47,625 dormant as seeds in the desert 357 00:27:47,792 --> 00:27:51,045 that must wait for a wandering shower. 358 00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:03,349 (music plays) 359 00:28:11,273 --> 00:28:14,527 In central Australia, I'm concerned 360 00:28:14,694 --> 00:28:16,946 with something which are called "the Songlines," 361 00:28:17,113 --> 00:28:18,781 or "the Dreaming Tracks." 362 00:28:18,948 --> 00:28:21,951 The Australian aboriginals had this idea that the whole of the land 363 00:28:22,118 --> 00:28:23,661 is covered with song. 364 00:28:23,828 --> 00:28:27,373 And this is something which I find absolutely, totally incredible, 365 00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:32,211 because I think it gives one insights as to how language, 366 00:28:32,378 --> 00:28:35,005 song, thought, poetry, 367 00:28:35,798 --> 00:28:38,259 came into being originally. 368 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,639 I have a, a white fella's understanding of songline, 369 00:28:43,806 --> 00:28:47,143 going from literature and conversations with aboriginal people. 370 00:28:47,309 --> 00:28:49,603 Um... yes, I'm a musician, 371 00:28:49,770 --> 00:28:52,898 and, uh, Bruce Chatwin, of course, 372 00:28:53,065 --> 00:28:55,151 coined the term "Songlines." 373 00:28:55,317 --> 00:28:59,822 He didn't like the term "Dreaming Tracks," 374 00:28:59,989 --> 00:29:03,743 and wanted to find something, I guess, more poetic. 375 00:29:05,202 --> 00:29:08,247 Aboriginal people were, especially in central Australia, 376 00:29:08,414 --> 00:29:10,499 were traveling across a very dry landscape 377 00:29:10,666 --> 00:29:12,918 and needed a way from, 378 00:29:13,085 --> 00:29:16,005 to navigate from-- from A to B. 379 00:29:16,172 --> 00:29:21,218 They didn't use GPSes and-- and what have you. 380 00:29:21,385 --> 00:29:23,846 So, they used mnemonics. 381 00:29:24,013 --> 00:29:26,891 So... a poetry... 382 00:29:27,057 --> 00:29:30,770 a storytelling... that got them from "A" to "B." 383 00:29:31,353 --> 00:29:33,272 - Shakespeare: These look like-- - It's coming apart. 384 00:29:33,439 --> 00:29:35,483 Some notebooks of The Songlines. 385 00:29:35,649 --> 00:29:37,568 Shakespeare: This is his attempt to draw a Songline. 386 00:29:37,735 --> 00:29:41,155 Herzog: Yes, can you take the next page next to it? 387 00:29:43,783 --> 00:29:44,784 And here. 388 00:29:46,827 --> 00:29:49,538 Very, very strange sort of-- 389 00:29:49,705 --> 00:29:51,791 A system of bringing knowledge he has here. 390 00:29:52,917 --> 00:29:53,959 Yeah. 391 00:29:54,126 --> 00:29:57,004 In delineating lines 392 00:29:57,171 --> 00:30:00,674 that were formed by dreams and by song. 393 00:30:00,841 --> 00:30:03,219 And for the aborigines, of course, 394 00:30:03,385 --> 00:30:07,890 it's not just song, it's orientation in space and it's this space-- 395 00:30:08,057 --> 00:30:10,726 Shakespeare: It's the whole identity the link that they have with the land 396 00:30:10,893 --> 00:30:11,894 A very graphic image he has. 397 00:30:12,061 --> 00:30:14,605 He goes with some aborigines in a car, 398 00:30:14,772 --> 00:30:16,565 and they're singing the Songlines themselves, 399 00:30:16,732 --> 00:30:20,110 but as the car gets faster, they quicken the speed of the song. 400 00:30:20,277 --> 00:30:23,197 - Herzog: Yes. - They have to hurry through the tracks. 401 00:30:23,364 --> 00:30:25,241 I think Bruce never quite understood, 402 00:30:25,407 --> 00:30:28,035 and didn't pretend to understand, what a Songline was. 403 00:30:28,202 --> 00:30:32,790 And when I asked him to describe it in sound, he tried, 404 00:30:32,957 --> 00:30:34,583 "Oh, it's a low, rather beautiful 'ah'." 405 00:30:34,750 --> 00:30:36,752 And then he-- he said this sound, 406 00:30:36,919 --> 00:30:39,255 which didn't sound like anything I ever heard again. 407 00:30:39,421 --> 00:30:42,550 When the aborigines were singing Songlines to me... 408 00:30:46,428 --> 00:30:52,434 Nah, I don't think that the song 409 00:30:52,601 --> 00:30:54,603 created the landscape. 410 00:30:55,938 --> 00:31:00,276 I think that the landscape 411 00:31:00,442 --> 00:31:02,236 was created 412 00:31:03,404 --> 00:31:05,614 by the altira. 413 00:31:05,781 --> 00:31:08,909 And the altira and what was born from those were the song-- 414 00:31:09,076 --> 00:31:13,747 Herzog: Mikey Liddle uses here the term in Arrernte language for "Dreamtime." 415 00:31:13,914 --> 00:31:17,960 That carried the existence of the animal 416 00:31:18,127 --> 00:31:21,964 traveling through to create the landscape. 417 00:31:25,467 --> 00:31:30,264 The animals, the trees, growing in the landscape. 418 00:31:34,977 --> 00:31:38,188 So, that's a hard one. 419 00:31:38,355 --> 00:31:40,316 The egg or the chicken? 420 00:31:40,482 --> 00:31:43,360 The song or the landscape? 421 00:31:48,073 --> 00:31:50,784 It's a wonderful mystery, 422 00:31:50,951 --> 00:31:54,163 and I get great pleasure about thinking about it. 423 00:31:54,330 --> 00:31:57,791 They're magnificent songs. 424 00:31:57,958 --> 00:31:59,793 They're magnificent... 425 00:32:02,963 --> 00:32:06,133 magnificent... 426 00:32:07,551 --> 00:32:10,095 procedures of communication 427 00:32:10,262 --> 00:32:15,184 that are performed by skin names, 428 00:32:16,393 --> 00:32:18,938 different categories of the Songlines. 429 00:32:19,813 --> 00:32:22,024 And then they're passed over, 430 00:32:22,191 --> 00:32:24,443 because that's as far as I can go. 431 00:32:24,610 --> 00:32:27,196 Then people take it on now. 432 00:32:28,113 --> 00:32:32,242 I'll know that and they know that. 433 00:32:33,494 --> 00:32:35,704 They have to take it on from there. 434 00:32:35,871 --> 00:32:37,414 I know the rest of that song, 435 00:32:37,581 --> 00:32:40,834 but it's then people's responsibility to do that. 436 00:32:43,337 --> 00:32:44,964 (speaks in Arrernte) 437 00:32:48,258 --> 00:32:49,802 You're coming this way, 438 00:32:51,512 --> 00:32:53,639 and you end up here, that's the one, 439 00:32:55,182 --> 00:32:57,851 like another one going, 440 00:33:00,854 --> 00:33:03,023 and he finish up here somewhere. 441 00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:09,905 He's gone... 442 00:33:11,198 --> 00:33:13,242 and another one gone. 443 00:33:13,409 --> 00:33:17,204 He's not going too far, no. 444 00:33:17,538 --> 00:33:20,874 He's going halfway, halfway, halfway. 445 00:33:21,041 --> 00:33:22,543 He's gone. 446 00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:24,336 He's finished. 447 00:33:25,546 --> 00:33:28,424 And another one, another family coming in. 448 00:33:30,551 --> 00:33:31,969 And that's it. 449 00:33:36,265 --> 00:33:37,850 Nothing. 450 00:33:44,148 --> 00:33:47,151 Sometimes you see that plane going. 451 00:33:52,990 --> 00:33:57,369 Plane going like a big swing, going right along. 452 00:33:57,536 --> 00:33:59,079 No. 453 00:34:00,122 --> 00:34:03,250 He should go half, half, half. 454 00:34:04,626 --> 00:34:07,838 Herzog: And does a plane leave a Songline in the sky? 455 00:34:08,005 --> 00:34:09,590 No. 456 00:34:09,757 --> 00:34:12,926 When he flies, he's taken right through overseas somewhere. 457 00:34:17,681 --> 00:34:20,809 Our Songlines are our way 458 00:34:20,976 --> 00:34:24,772 of contributing to the health of the planet... 459 00:34:24,938 --> 00:34:27,441 - Herzog: In which way? - When our old people sing, 460 00:34:27,608 --> 00:34:30,402 they reinvigorate sites, 461 00:34:31,361 --> 00:34:35,991 ...and it invigorates them at the same time. 462 00:34:36,158 --> 00:34:39,787 Our old people had a really, really close connection. 463 00:34:39,953 --> 00:34:42,122 We still do, with country. 464 00:34:42,289 --> 00:34:43,707 And... 465 00:34:43,874 --> 00:34:47,211 Look, something in me sort of believes that... 466 00:34:49,296 --> 00:34:51,965 when the last song man or song woman... 467 00:34:54,259 --> 00:34:55,928 passes, 468 00:34:56,095 --> 00:34:59,473 whether it be in aboriginal Australia, 469 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,101 whether it be in the Amazon forests, 470 00:35:02,267 --> 00:35:05,270 whether it be in Africa, Asia, wherever, 471 00:35:05,437 --> 00:35:08,273 something profound's gonna happen, 472 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,611 I don't know what that is, but I think that our Songlines, 473 00:35:12,778 --> 00:35:15,030 I guess, kind of... 474 00:35:15,197 --> 00:35:19,827 hold-- hold the Earth together in a-- in a mysterious way. 475 00:35:22,579 --> 00:35:24,998 Herzog: We are here in the Strehlow Centre, 476 00:35:25,165 --> 00:35:29,128 named after the eminent scholar, Theodore Strehlow. 477 00:35:29,294 --> 00:35:34,883 Who spent decades collecting knowledge and songs of aborigines. 478 00:35:35,050 --> 00:35:38,220 This brought Bruce Chatwin to Australia. 479 00:35:39,263 --> 00:35:41,431 His monumental book, however, 480 00:35:41,598 --> 00:35:44,893 contains elements of secret knowledge 481 00:35:45,060 --> 00:35:48,063 meant only for the initiated, 482 00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:50,732 even the painting on the cover 483 00:35:50,899 --> 00:35:53,402 should not be seen by everyone. 484 00:35:53,569 --> 00:35:58,949 And we were asked to show only part of it and out of focus. 485 00:36:00,826 --> 00:36:04,872 Now, as this book is available for everyone, 486 00:36:05,038 --> 00:36:11,253 I can read it and I can look into knowledge that shouldn't be for me, 487 00:36:11,420 --> 00:36:14,047 was not meant for me. 488 00:36:14,214 --> 00:36:17,259 Is that a problem for you? 489 00:36:17,426 --> 00:36:19,219 Yes, I think it is a problem. 490 00:36:19,386 --> 00:36:21,597 And it's becoming... 491 00:36:21,763 --> 00:36:24,808 more of an increasing problem. 492 00:36:27,686 --> 00:36:29,730 Look, I guess... 493 00:36:31,398 --> 00:36:36,111 This material-- I think T.G.H. Strehlow had... 494 00:36:36,278 --> 00:36:38,780 had... had some perceptions 495 00:36:38,947 --> 00:36:43,660 that this, the knowledge, would die out. 496 00:36:43,827 --> 00:36:48,916 Now there's no doubt that some elements of aboriginal culture 497 00:36:49,082 --> 00:36:52,211 have-- have... eroded. 498 00:36:52,377 --> 00:36:55,505 But we are still here. 499 00:36:55,672 --> 00:36:58,884 We are still singing many of these songs. 500 00:36:59,051 --> 00:37:01,970 We're still performing ceremonies every year. 501 00:37:02,137 --> 00:37:06,183 We still have a really deep connection to country and-- 502 00:37:06,350 --> 00:37:09,728 But they're not-- not meant for me, for example. 503 00:37:09,895 --> 00:37:11,939 Not meant for my camera. 504 00:37:12,105 --> 00:37:13,023 Yeah. 505 00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:17,903 Well, a lot of the material in this is restricted men's material. 506 00:37:18,070 --> 00:37:20,155 It's restricted knowledge. 507 00:37:20,322 --> 00:37:24,034 This documents songs in detail. 508 00:37:24,201 --> 00:37:28,872 It provides you with, translations of songs. 509 00:37:29,039 --> 00:37:33,168 - And-- - Should the book be locked away? 510 00:37:34,086 --> 00:37:36,588 Should it be hidden away? 511 00:37:37,965 --> 00:37:39,299 Well... 512 00:37:39,466 --> 00:37:40,926 Should it be burnt? 513 00:37:43,637 --> 00:37:45,597 Look, I don't think so. 514 00:37:46,306 --> 00:37:50,894 Herzog: Theodore Strehlow looks here like an outdoorsman, 515 00:37:51,061 --> 00:37:54,898 but growing up Hermannsburg in central Australia, 516 00:37:55,065 --> 00:37:58,860 as the son of a German protestant missionary, 517 00:37:59,027 --> 00:38:05,701 he was fluent in German, English, Aranda, Latin and Ancient Greek. 518 00:38:06,702 --> 00:38:08,787 With Songs of Central Australia 519 00:38:08,954 --> 00:38:11,707 he left one, as Chatwin thought, 520 00:38:11,873 --> 00:38:14,835 of the most singular books ever written. 521 00:38:15,002 --> 00:38:19,631 Chatwin describes it as "great and lonely." 522 00:38:19,798 --> 00:38:22,509 It is based on his field diaries, 523 00:38:22,676 --> 00:38:25,971 but connects philosophy, ancient literature, 524 00:38:26,138 --> 00:38:30,350 mythologies of seemingly unrelated cultures. 525 00:38:31,018 --> 00:38:33,353 This was also Chatwin's way 526 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:39,860 of connecting the most improbable varieties of ideas and encounters. 527 00:38:40,027 --> 00:38:44,489 This became Chatwin's unique style of storytelling. 528 00:38:45,282 --> 00:38:48,118 What I remember about the person, I don't know if this is the same for you, 529 00:38:48,285 --> 00:38:50,370 he was like a kind of fiery ball of light, 530 00:38:50,537 --> 00:38:55,042 shedding flickering illuminations on obscure pieces of knowledge, 531 00:38:55,208 --> 00:38:57,794 on connecting... 532 00:38:57,961 --> 00:39:01,173 countries, people, books, texts. 533 00:39:02,090 --> 00:39:05,677 I have often wondered if he was a kind of precursor of the internet. 534 00:39:05,844 --> 00:39:08,430 He-- he offered connections-- 535 00:39:08,597 --> 00:39:10,390 No, he was the internet. 536 00:39:10,557 --> 00:39:13,894 - He was the internet. - He was the internet at a time when 537 00:39:14,061 --> 00:39:16,396 technically, it did not exist. 538 00:39:16,563 --> 00:39:19,066 He was the internet. 539 00:39:20,108 --> 00:39:24,279 In Alice Springs, not far from the Strehlow Centre, 540 00:39:24,446 --> 00:39:26,448 we met Peter Bartlett, 541 00:39:26,615 --> 00:39:28,450 a very well-read man, 542 00:39:28,617 --> 00:39:31,161 who has lived with aborigines 543 00:39:31,328 --> 00:39:33,872 since he was a young man. 544 00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:36,416 He's a speaker of Warlpiri, 545 00:39:36,583 --> 00:39:40,295 and a fully initiated member of this tribe. 546 00:39:41,671 --> 00:39:44,966 He has read and reread The Songlines, 547 00:39:45,133 --> 00:39:47,219 and could, as he says, 548 00:39:47,386 --> 00:39:51,848 "write a thousand pages of commentary about it." 549 00:39:52,641 --> 00:39:57,896 He told us about his experience with aboriginal songs. 550 00:39:58,563 --> 00:40:01,733 Some of these performances that I heard when I was young 551 00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:03,985 were just so powerful. 552 00:40:04,152 --> 00:40:09,408 And... and then so it was a real mystery to me or why they-- 553 00:40:09,574 --> 00:40:12,202 Was it more powerful than Wagner and-- 554 00:40:12,369 --> 00:40:13,495 Yeah! When you-- 555 00:40:13,662 --> 00:40:16,415 You know, men would be screaming the songs out. 556 00:40:16,581 --> 00:40:17,499 And, you know, they-- 557 00:40:17,666 --> 00:40:22,087 And it would be like a competition between 10 football teams, you know? 558 00:40:22,254 --> 00:40:25,465 And-- and you'd have voices that would-- 559 00:40:25,632 --> 00:40:28,969 Really supreme singers that could put their voice 560 00:40:29,136 --> 00:40:30,887 right over hundreds of men 561 00:40:31,054 --> 00:40:35,392 singing intensely and stomp, you know, all the percussion sounds 562 00:40:35,559 --> 00:40:36,893 that they'd be making. 563 00:40:37,060 --> 00:40:40,313 And you'd have these top singers that could take their voices 564 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,358 right over the top and, you know, like... 565 00:40:43,525 --> 00:40:47,863 So, yeah. No, and it would all be done in darkness with stars. 566 00:40:48,029 --> 00:40:50,323 (softly singing) 567 00:40:50,490 --> 00:40:54,703 Herzog: Peter Bartlett introduced us to his Warlpiri mentor, 568 00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:57,122 Robin Granites. 569 00:41:00,250 --> 00:41:02,335 (softly speaking in Warlpiri) 570 00:41:02,502 --> 00:41:05,755 (in English) The tunes-- the tunes are right, 571 00:41:05,922 --> 00:41:08,300 but the wording that-- 572 00:41:08,467 --> 00:41:10,886 - They have a lot of songs, right? - Yeah. 573 00:41:11,052 --> 00:41:15,182 Right? But they don't have decent words. 574 00:41:16,808 --> 00:41:19,978 Herzog: Are the lyrics of the Songlines eroding? 575 00:41:20,145 --> 00:41:22,397 Or should we rather suspect 576 00:41:22,564 --> 00:41:26,359 that he does not want to reveal everything to our camera? 577 00:41:26,526 --> 00:41:28,612 Bartlett: Well, what about that one I used to sing? 578 00:41:28,778 --> 00:41:30,655 Maybe it's the wrong one for you? 579 00:41:30,822 --> 00:41:32,657 That... (speaks Warlpiri) one? 580 00:41:32,824 --> 00:41:36,953 (singing in Warlpiri) 581 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,498 (both speak Warlpiri) 582 00:41:56,056 --> 00:41:58,016 (singing in Warlpiri) 583 00:42:22,499 --> 00:42:24,376 (singing continues) 584 00:42:46,648 --> 00:42:50,694 Herzog: This here is a mission station in Hermannsburg. 585 00:42:50,860 --> 00:42:55,365 Bruce was searching here for something profound, 586 00:42:55,532 --> 00:42:59,327 a whole world embedded in ancient aboriginal songs. 587 00:42:59,494 --> 00:43:01,246 (people singing in foreign language) 588 00:43:01,413 --> 00:43:02,872 It does not feel right to me 589 00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:06,501 how the missionaries transformed the culture of song 590 00:43:06,668 --> 00:43:09,879 into Lutheran piety. 591 00:43:10,046 --> 00:43:12,549 (singing in foreign language) 592 00:43:24,269 --> 00:43:27,897 The furnishings date back to Theodore's father, 593 00:43:28,064 --> 00:43:31,192 Carl Strehlow, the Lutheran pastor. 594 00:43:32,235 --> 00:43:35,989 Everything here seems to be frozen in time. 595 00:43:36,156 --> 00:43:38,908 (singing continues) 596 00:44:03,350 --> 00:44:05,810 (music plays) 597 00:44:09,898 --> 00:44:13,943 I was always in search of this elusive manuscript, 598 00:44:14,110 --> 00:44:15,445 which he had said he'd written. 599 00:44:15,612 --> 00:44:19,783 He'd spent, himself, seven years writing, The Nomadic Alternative. 600 00:44:19,949 --> 00:44:23,870 Which was the key of his theory about nomadism, about walking about. 601 00:44:24,037 --> 00:44:26,998 How walking cures you, which you must've talked with him about. 602 00:44:27,165 --> 00:44:29,959 And the library allowed us to touch it, 603 00:44:30,126 --> 00:44:32,170 to read from it, look into it. 604 00:44:32,337 --> 00:44:35,048 ...I can show it. 605 00:44:35,215 --> 00:44:36,633 It's for real. 606 00:44:37,425 --> 00:44:38,802 It is... 607 00:44:38,968 --> 00:44:40,804 - This is called-- - You had searched for it. 608 00:44:40,970 --> 00:44:42,972 I had searched for this for seven years. 609 00:44:43,139 --> 00:44:45,308 I found it literally in the last summer I was here. 610 00:44:45,475 --> 00:44:46,810 It's called The Nomadic Alternative, 611 00:44:46,976 --> 00:44:49,562 and it was the manuscript that Bruce was commissioned to write 612 00:44:49,729 --> 00:44:51,106 when he was a young-- 613 00:44:51,272 --> 00:44:55,360 After he'd left studying... archaeology at Edinburgh, 614 00:44:55,527 --> 00:44:58,196 he was commissioned to do this book 615 00:44:58,363 --> 00:45:01,157 on his theory about walking and nomadism. 616 00:45:01,491 --> 00:45:04,744 Of course, I had a similar world view, 617 00:45:04,911 --> 00:45:08,289 that with nomadic existence, 618 00:45:08,456 --> 00:45:11,918 with the demise of nomadic life... 619 00:45:12,085 --> 00:45:17,298 city life, sedentary life would come in, in place. 620 00:45:17,465 --> 00:45:20,677 Meaning, huge amount of human beings, 621 00:45:20,844 --> 00:45:23,388 technology, 622 00:45:23,555 --> 00:45:27,183 all of which is now probably working 623 00:45:27,350 --> 00:45:29,728 at the distraction of the human race. 624 00:45:29,894 --> 00:45:32,731 And he was quite sure that... 625 00:45:32,897 --> 00:45:35,275 humanity was fragile, 626 00:45:35,442 --> 00:45:38,528 that we had... maybe 100,000, 627 00:45:38,695 --> 00:45:42,490 or a little more than 100,000 years, as homo sapiens. 628 00:45:42,657 --> 00:45:45,368 But we may not have that much left. 629 00:45:46,119 --> 00:45:49,956 That we might disappear like other species have disappeared. 630 00:45:50,123 --> 00:45:54,669 So, what did you think of his theory of nomadism, as you understood it? 631 00:45:54,836 --> 00:45:58,089 I had an immediate rapport, 632 00:45:58,256 --> 00:46:02,260 because I-- in my thinking, and in my experiences on foot, 633 00:46:02,427 --> 00:46:06,014 I had made exactly the same... 634 00:46:06,181 --> 00:46:08,850 ideas, impressions, 635 00:46:09,017 --> 00:46:10,643 experiences. 636 00:46:14,147 --> 00:46:18,651 These here are the last nomadic people of Tierra Del Fuego, 637 00:46:18,818 --> 00:46:21,988 photographed a mere 100 years ago. 638 00:46:22,155 --> 00:46:25,283 Bruce Chatwin had seen these photos 639 00:46:25,450 --> 00:46:27,702 while he was in Patagonia. 640 00:46:28,369 --> 00:46:35,001 For him, it was clear that we could not revert to the times of nomadism. 641 00:46:35,168 --> 00:46:39,964 But he was fascinated by the fact that humans in East Africa, 642 00:46:40,131 --> 00:46:43,510 where we originated as homo sapiens 643 00:46:43,676 --> 00:46:46,721 around 150,000 years ago, 644 00:46:46,888 --> 00:46:49,265 travelled the longest distance 645 00:46:49,432 --> 00:46:52,310 humans could possibly go. 646 00:46:52,977 --> 00:46:55,814 From East Africa to the near east, 647 00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:58,441 spreading to Asia and Siberia. 648 00:46:58,608 --> 00:47:01,653 Crossing the Bering Strait into Alaska, 649 00:47:01,820 --> 00:47:06,199 and from there, all the way down through the Americas 650 00:47:06,366 --> 00:47:09,577 to the southernmost tip of South America. 651 00:47:11,955 --> 00:47:14,249 Ten thousand years ago, 652 00:47:14,415 --> 00:47:19,379 they left their imprint in a cave under an overhang. 653 00:47:19,546 --> 00:47:23,842 Bruce Chatwin and they had the same vista. 654 00:47:25,552 --> 00:47:28,680 Is there still an echo of their voices? 655 00:47:28,847 --> 00:47:33,643 (harmonizing music) 656 00:47:59,210 --> 00:48:02,922 The never ending wind is still the same, 657 00:48:03,089 --> 00:48:05,508 and so are the animals they hunted, 658 00:48:05,675 --> 00:48:07,886 mostly guanacos. 659 00:48:23,026 --> 00:48:28,823 The depictions of animals are lively and fairly realistic, 660 00:48:28,990 --> 00:48:33,745 but how the prehistoric nomads looked remains a mystery. 661 00:48:38,833 --> 00:48:40,793 This here could be a dancer, 662 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,088 a hybrid between man and frog. 663 00:48:46,299 --> 00:48:50,970 Frogs appear to have been important totemic creatures. 664 00:48:51,137 --> 00:48:54,349 The hands of these long gone people, 665 00:48:54,515 --> 00:48:57,936 are the direct imprint of their presence. 666 00:48:58,102 --> 00:49:01,689 Almost forensic evidence. 667 00:49:01,856 --> 00:49:03,650 But the longer you look, 668 00:49:03,816 --> 00:49:05,401 the more unreal, 669 00:49:05,568 --> 00:49:08,237 the more mysterious they become. 670 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,407 (harmonizing continues) 671 00:50:03,626 --> 00:50:06,921 The photos, 10,000 years later, 672 00:50:07,088 --> 00:50:10,550 have already become inexplicable. 673 00:50:10,717 --> 00:50:12,885 This one has been interpreted 674 00:50:13,052 --> 00:50:17,807 as showing a shaman who, with his hands outstretched, 675 00:50:17,974 --> 00:50:21,185 tells his people of a lunar eclipse. 676 00:50:22,687 --> 00:50:25,898 This one is one of my favorites. 677 00:50:26,065 --> 00:50:28,359 The painted man in the foreground 678 00:50:28,526 --> 00:50:32,363 is supposed to be a spirit among the living. 679 00:50:34,032 --> 00:50:39,037 No one today has any idea about what is going on here. 680 00:50:39,203 --> 00:50:44,083 It seems to be a ceremony performed by naked men. 681 00:50:45,126 --> 00:50:51,049 In this one, the only thing we know is that these men are not dead. 682 00:50:51,215 --> 00:50:54,761 This maybe a ritual performance of death. 683 00:50:57,889 --> 00:51:01,142 What the paintings of faces and bodies mean, 684 00:51:01,309 --> 00:51:03,186 we do not know either, 685 00:51:03,352 --> 00:51:08,941 but they point to a complex system of beliefs and ceremonies. 686 00:51:13,571 --> 00:51:15,531 (harmonizing) 687 00:51:33,716 --> 00:51:37,428 Nomads, their bodies and faces painted, 688 00:51:37,595 --> 00:51:39,931 always fascinated Bruce Chatwin. 689 00:51:41,390 --> 00:51:44,977 Even when he was only days away from death, 690 00:51:45,144 --> 00:51:48,022 he wanted to see my just-finished film 691 00:51:48,189 --> 00:51:52,360 on Wodaabe tribesmen in the southern Sahara. 692 00:51:52,527 --> 00:51:56,072 Each year, they meet in the middle of nowhere, 693 00:51:56,239 --> 00:52:00,118 and the young men elaborately adorn their faces. 694 00:52:01,119 --> 00:52:04,580 They compete for beauty in front of the women, 695 00:52:04,747 --> 00:52:08,501 and showing the whites of their eyes and their teeth 696 00:52:08,668 --> 00:52:12,338 is considered the highest mark of their beauty. 697 00:52:13,422 --> 00:52:17,176 These images were the last Bruce ever saw 698 00:52:17,343 --> 00:52:20,221 before he lapsed into his final coma. 699 00:52:33,442 --> 00:52:37,321 All these tribal cultures are in their last days. 700 00:52:38,573 --> 00:52:43,828 Bruce wrote about their abrupt encounters with Western civilization. 701 00:52:46,455 --> 00:52:50,793 I'm reading now an excerpt of Chatwin's In Patagonia 702 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,880 that he did not read in his recording. 703 00:52:55,006 --> 00:52:57,550 "Bernal Días relates how, 704 00:52:57,717 --> 00:53:01,304 on seeing the jeweled cities of Mexico, 705 00:53:01,470 --> 00:53:04,015 the Conquistadores wondered 706 00:53:04,182 --> 00:53:08,394 if they had not stepped into the book of Amadis 707 00:53:08,561 --> 00:53:10,855 or the fabric of a dream." 708 00:53:11,647 --> 00:53:14,567 His lines are sometimes quoted 709 00:53:14,734 --> 00:53:16,819 to support the assertion 710 00:53:16,986 --> 00:53:20,781 that history aspires to the symmetry of myth. 711 00:53:21,449 --> 00:53:25,661 A similar case concerns Magellan's landfall 712 00:53:25,828 --> 00:53:28,789 at San Julian in 1520. 713 00:53:29,832 --> 00:53:34,420 From the ship they saw a giant dancing naked on the shore, 714 00:53:34,587 --> 00:53:37,089 dancing and leaping and singing, 715 00:53:37,256 --> 00:53:42,011 and while singing, throwing sand and dust on his head. 716 00:53:42,178 --> 00:53:44,347 As the white men approached, 717 00:53:44,513 --> 00:53:47,099 he raised one finger to the sky 718 00:53:47,266 --> 00:53:50,811 questioning whether they had come from heaven. 719 00:53:50,978 --> 00:53:53,564 When led before the Captain-General 720 00:53:53,731 --> 00:53:55,900 he covered his nakedness 721 00:53:56,067 --> 00:53:58,945 with a cape of guanaco hide. 722 00:54:01,447 --> 00:54:04,200 The faces of these tribal people 723 00:54:04,367 --> 00:54:08,162 seem to betray a similar shock of encounter 724 00:54:08,329 --> 00:54:10,289 with a mythical vessel. 725 00:54:12,583 --> 00:54:16,003 An exact replica of Magellan's ship 726 00:54:16,170 --> 00:54:19,799 sits on dry land in Punta Arenas, 727 00:54:19,966 --> 00:54:22,468 but the myth lives on. 728 00:54:23,844 --> 00:54:27,431 Is the ship not tossed by raging waves? 729 00:54:28,391 --> 00:54:31,352 Does a storm whip it along? 730 00:54:31,519 --> 00:54:37,191 Do the ropes and the rigging sing a siren's song in the wind? 731 00:54:38,484 --> 00:54:42,446 Are these ice flows a mortal hazard 732 00:54:42,613 --> 00:54:45,783 for the ship rounding the rocks of Cape Horn? 733 00:54:47,702 --> 00:54:51,122 Have the conquistadors failed in their mission 734 00:54:51,289 --> 00:54:55,001 to convert the natives to Christianity, 735 00:54:55,167 --> 00:54:59,213 or has it remained a hollow promise? 736 00:55:08,347 --> 00:55:10,308 (music plays) 737 00:55:25,406 --> 00:55:28,326 Retracing Chatwin's journey, 738 00:55:28,492 --> 00:55:31,537 we cross the Beagle Channel into Chile. 739 00:55:33,289 --> 00:55:37,293 This here is the Chilean customs and immigration building 740 00:55:37,460 --> 00:55:39,628 on the Isla Navarino, 741 00:55:39,795 --> 00:55:44,425 the last large island before the end of the continent. 742 00:55:45,718 --> 00:55:48,346 Chatwin was in search of traces 743 00:55:48,512 --> 00:55:51,390 of the nomadic people of Patagonia. 744 00:55:53,184 --> 00:55:54,643 (speaking indistinctly) 745 00:55:57,563 --> 00:56:00,983 We came across a group of archaeologists 746 00:56:01,150 --> 00:56:04,445 who were digging up an ancient campsite. 747 00:56:09,867 --> 00:56:15,122 This area was sporadically inhabited by wandering tribes. 748 00:56:15,915 --> 00:56:19,168 Over hundreds, maybe thousands of years, 749 00:56:19,335 --> 00:56:22,171 they left layer upon layer of seashells. 750 00:56:23,089 --> 00:56:26,717 Vaguely visible here, this distinct strata. 751 00:56:28,260 --> 00:56:30,221 (marching band plays) 752 00:56:51,409 --> 00:56:53,494 Modern day Navarino Island 753 00:56:53,661 --> 00:56:55,788 is trying to preserve 754 00:56:55,955 --> 00:56:58,457 the history of ancient nomads. 755 00:56:59,083 --> 00:57:02,420 These Chilean students are the future now, 756 00:57:02,586 --> 00:57:04,880 they're marching in celebration 757 00:57:05,047 --> 00:57:08,300 of the founding day of Puerto Williams, 758 00:57:08,467 --> 00:57:10,886 the only settlement on the island. 759 00:57:27,027 --> 00:57:30,614 As recently as the late 19th century, 760 00:57:30,781 --> 00:57:34,785 people from here were exhibited in a zoo in Paris. 761 00:57:35,911 --> 00:57:38,998 They all died out through epidemics 762 00:57:39,165 --> 00:57:42,001 or were killed by white settlers. 763 00:57:42,668 --> 00:57:45,588 The murderers gave this photo the title 764 00:57:45,754 --> 00:57:47,798 "In the field of honor." 765 00:57:53,679 --> 00:57:55,639 (wood creeks) 766 00:58:00,102 --> 00:58:04,982 Scores of Yagans, Selk'nams, Kawéscar, 767 00:58:05,149 --> 00:58:10,696 and other indigenous groups, were buried in this tribal cemetery. 768 00:58:13,032 --> 00:58:14,992 (music plays) 769 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:27,546 This end of a civilization frightened Bruce Chatwin. 770 00:58:27,713 --> 00:58:29,590 He wanted conversation. 771 00:58:29,757 --> 00:58:34,053 He was into speech as if by manic compulsion. 772 00:58:34,970 --> 00:58:38,224 To me, it was as if he was speaking 773 00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:41,310 to push his untimely death away. 774 00:58:46,273 --> 00:58:49,318 He was talking, talking, talking, 775 00:58:49,485 --> 00:58:52,196 so, to the top of the table. 776 00:58:52,363 --> 00:58:54,907 And everybody laughed a lot. 777 00:58:55,074 --> 00:58:58,035 And that was-- It was nice. 778 00:58:58,202 --> 00:59:01,330 It was just so sad that he didn't live. 779 00:59:02,540 --> 00:59:05,668 You know, because he-- I can imagine what he would still be-- 780 00:59:05,834 --> 00:59:08,754 I mean, he had so many books already still in his head 781 00:59:08,921 --> 00:59:10,673 that he wanted to write. 782 00:59:11,465 --> 00:59:13,342 Herzog: Do you hear his voice still? 783 00:59:14,176 --> 00:59:17,930 Oh, I can, yes. I can if you say that, I can hear it. 784 00:59:18,097 --> 00:59:19,515 Mmm, in my head. 785 00:59:19,682 --> 00:59:22,309 - Yeah, I can. - His laughter? 786 00:59:22,476 --> 00:59:24,562 - Hmm? - His laughter? 787 00:59:24,728 --> 00:59:27,022 Oh, yeah. Laughter, yeah. 788 00:59:27,189 --> 00:59:29,400 - His shrieks. - Shrieks, yeah. 789 00:59:29,567 --> 00:59:32,361 I was gonna say shrieks. Exactly, yeah. 790 00:59:32,528 --> 00:59:35,030 He... he loved-- he loved telling jokes. 791 00:59:35,197 --> 00:59:38,826 And he loved telling adventures and so on. 792 00:59:38,993 --> 00:59:42,246 - His storytelling-- - I mean, he would go to a party, 793 00:59:43,038 --> 00:59:46,834 and walk in with me trailing behind. 794 00:59:47,001 --> 00:59:49,420 And he would walk straight-- 795 00:59:49,587 --> 00:59:52,590 And then immediately he was surrounded. 796 00:59:53,257 --> 00:59:54,800 You know, like this, 797 00:59:54,967 --> 00:59:57,428 with people who wanted to talk to him. 798 00:59:57,595 --> 01:00:00,389 He'd go into the house already talking. 799 01:00:01,223 --> 01:00:03,267 He was a talker. 800 01:00:03,434 --> 01:00:05,227 I mean, he was interested in characters 801 01:00:05,394 --> 01:00:07,354 and in stories and in... 802 01:00:07,521 --> 01:00:11,400 and in mimicry and in-- in... 803 01:00:11,859 --> 01:00:14,069 As you say, these shrieks were... 804 01:00:14,236 --> 01:00:15,988 One wanted to bottle them in a way, 805 01:00:16,155 --> 01:00:20,618 because they were both painful and exciting and-- and encouraging. 806 01:00:21,452 --> 01:00:22,911 They were... 807 01:00:23,078 --> 01:00:26,248 They were... the essence of something. 808 01:00:26,874 --> 01:00:31,337 Yes I remember his voice and everything when-- when we met in Melbourne. 809 01:00:32,254 --> 01:00:36,967 Pretty much from the airport... we started to tell stories to each other, 810 01:00:37,134 --> 01:00:38,427 and it was a marathon, 811 01:00:38,594 --> 01:00:42,139 literally a marathon of two days, two nights. 812 01:00:42,306 --> 01:00:45,559 Of course, we slept in between, five, six hours. 813 01:00:45,726 --> 01:00:48,187 The moment we-- we met at breakfast, 814 01:00:48,354 --> 01:00:50,397 he would continue, I would continue. 815 01:00:50,564 --> 01:00:53,442 Of course, it was hard to squeeze in a story 816 01:00:53,609 --> 01:00:59,531 because he was non-stop and his way to imitate voices 817 01:00:59,698 --> 01:01:01,867 was-- is still in my ear. 818 01:01:02,034 --> 01:01:04,828 I remember one story he told about 819 01:01:04,995 --> 01:01:08,040 the interior of Australia, aborigines. 820 01:01:08,207 --> 01:01:13,295 A very wealthy American couple arrives in a private plane. 821 01:01:13,462 --> 01:01:15,798 The wife in high heels 822 01:01:15,964 --> 01:01:19,885 takes a photo of an aborigine squatting on the ground, an old man. 823 01:01:20,052 --> 01:01:24,056 And he, full of contempt, spits at her feet. 824 01:01:24,223 --> 01:01:27,685 And she immediately noticed she should have asked him for permission, 825 01:01:27,851 --> 01:01:30,479 and apologies and asks, 826 01:01:30,646 --> 01:01:33,565 "Can we-- can we give you a gift or something? 827 01:01:33,732 --> 01:01:37,820 Maybe not money but something practical that you can use. 828 01:01:37,986 --> 01:01:39,154 What can we send you?" 829 01:01:39,321 --> 01:01:42,241 And the aborigine, without missing a beat, says, 830 01:01:42,408 --> 01:01:47,121 "Four Toyota pickup trucks" 831 01:01:48,414 --> 01:01:51,166 That's how Bruce spoke. 832 01:01:51,333 --> 01:01:54,586 And then he would imitate the voice of the woman 833 01:01:54,753 --> 01:01:57,631 who didn't know what to do now. 834 01:02:07,558 --> 01:02:09,768 Back in Patagonia, 835 01:02:09,935 --> 01:02:13,063 mountains were not Bruce's terrain. 836 01:02:13,230 --> 01:02:14,481 They were mine, 837 01:02:14,648 --> 01:02:17,860 as I had grown up in the mountains of Bavaria. 838 01:02:18,777 --> 01:02:23,031 But his leather rucksack would play an important role here. 839 01:02:23,824 --> 01:02:29,037 He, himself, had walked with this rucksack for thousands of miles. 840 01:02:32,082 --> 01:02:33,876 I always drink here. 841 01:02:37,838 --> 01:02:42,551 I made my feature film Scream of Stone on Cerro Torre 842 01:02:42,718 --> 01:02:46,680 and the protagonist, as an homage to Bruce Chatwin, 843 01:02:46,847 --> 01:02:49,099 who had died the year before, 844 01:02:49,266 --> 01:02:51,935 carries it throughout the film. 845 01:02:52,853 --> 01:02:55,773 At one point during production, 846 01:02:55,939 --> 01:02:58,776 it would acquire significance for me. 847 01:03:02,613 --> 01:03:07,785 Cerro Torre is one of the ultimate challenges for climbers. 848 01:03:07,951 --> 01:03:10,913 Aside from the prohibitive rock faces, 849 01:03:11,079 --> 01:03:13,957 it is the raging storms 850 01:03:14,124 --> 01:03:15,876 that pose the danger. 851 01:03:17,503 --> 01:03:20,839 In a way, the film, for me, 852 01:03:21,006 --> 01:03:23,842 had to do with the death of Chatwin. 853 01:03:24,843 --> 01:03:26,637 When I saw Bruce... 854 01:03:27,763 --> 01:03:32,142 there was only a skeleton and eyes 855 01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:34,436 glowing out of his skeleton. 856 01:03:35,604 --> 01:03:38,982 And Elizabeth left, and the first thing he said, 857 01:03:39,149 --> 01:03:40,734 "Werner, I'm dying." 858 01:03:42,194 --> 01:03:45,739 And I looked at him and I said, "Bruce, I can see that." 859 01:03:46,907 --> 01:03:49,117 Almost matter of fact. 860 01:03:49,284 --> 01:03:51,078 And then he said... 861 01:03:51,787 --> 01:03:54,998 "I want to die now. Help me, help me, help me. 862 01:03:55,165 --> 01:03:57,709 Can you kill me off somehow?" 863 01:03:57,876 --> 01:03:59,336 And I said, 864 01:04:00,963 --> 01:04:05,217 "Do you mean I am going to bash in your head 865 01:04:05,384 --> 01:04:08,387 with a baseball bat or do I shoot you?" 866 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:14,101 And he said, "Maybe some-- some sort of... medicine or so." 867 01:04:14,268 --> 01:04:17,396 And I said, "Why don't you talk to Elizabeth?" 868 01:04:17,563 --> 01:04:21,066 "No, I cannot talk about this. She's so Catholic." 869 01:04:22,276 --> 01:04:24,152 And... 870 01:04:25,737 --> 01:04:31,243 So, my only present to him was not a gun to shoot him, 871 01:04:31,410 --> 01:04:32,995 but I showed him the film. 872 01:04:34,663 --> 01:04:38,584 And he would see ten minutes of it and then lapse into a delirium, 873 01:04:38,750 --> 01:04:42,921 and then see another 10 minutes, and he would... 874 01:04:44,131 --> 01:04:47,050 He would all of a sudden come back, 875 01:04:47,926 --> 01:04:51,013 and be totally clear, and he would shout out to me, 876 01:04:51,179 --> 01:04:54,391 "I've gotta be on the road again. I've gotta be on the road again." 877 01:04:55,350 --> 01:04:59,646 And he looked at his legs, they were only spindles, 878 01:04:59,813 --> 01:05:02,608 and he says, "But my rucksack is too heavy." 879 01:05:03,775 --> 01:05:06,570 And I said, "Bruce, I can carry a rucksack. 880 01:05:06,737 --> 01:05:08,780 I'm strong enough. I'll come with you." 881 01:05:09,531 --> 01:05:12,075 And... then... 882 01:05:12,826 --> 01:05:17,080 Somehow, he apparently, after two days... when I was there, 883 01:05:17,247 --> 01:05:21,209 he was embarrassed to die in front of me, 884 01:05:21,376 --> 01:05:24,379 and he said, "Can you please leave?" 885 01:05:25,714 --> 01:05:29,217 And he said, "You must carry..." 886 01:05:33,931 --> 01:05:35,557 Can we show it? 887 01:05:36,767 --> 01:05:37,643 (clears throat) 888 01:05:37,809 --> 01:05:40,103 So, that's his rucksack. 889 01:05:40,270 --> 01:05:42,522 Elizabeth, actually, going back to England, 890 01:05:42,689 --> 01:05:44,399 it was in England, sent it to me. 891 01:05:45,067 --> 01:05:46,735 And I have used it. 892 01:05:46,902 --> 01:05:48,195 I've used it a lot. 893 01:05:49,446 --> 01:05:53,241 The film carries a mood of precariousness. 894 01:05:53,408 --> 01:05:56,453 Everything can end in sudden death. 895 01:05:57,579 --> 01:06:00,749 Bruce always loved my film, Fitzcarraldo. 896 01:06:00,916 --> 01:06:06,588 Where I actually moved a big steam boat over a mountain. 897 01:06:06,755 --> 01:06:11,551 He always loved when cinema was authentic in its purest form. 898 01:06:12,177 --> 01:06:16,807 Here, it is obvious that my actor, Stefan Glowacz, 899 01:06:16,974 --> 01:06:19,351 the best free climber of his time, 900 01:06:19,518 --> 01:06:22,771 uses no safety devices at all. 901 01:06:22,938 --> 01:06:24,773 He refused everything. 902 01:06:24,940 --> 01:06:28,610 No rope, no carabines, nothing. 903 01:06:32,906 --> 01:06:34,866 (birds chirp) 904 01:07:25,917 --> 01:07:29,713 It's cloudy as always, you know that there for me. 905 01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:31,506 But you know it's... 906 01:07:31,673 --> 01:07:35,302 For me, it's incredible to stay here with you. You know, it's a real pleasure. 907 01:07:35,469 --> 01:07:39,598 And I living here since when you make the movie in the 90's-- 908 01:07:39,765 --> 01:07:42,309 Yes, but-- but I'm not the protagonist. 909 01:07:42,476 --> 01:07:43,685 - You're not? Okay. - No, no, no. 910 01:07:43,852 --> 01:07:47,773 Protagonist is Bruce Chatwin, this rucksack. 911 01:07:47,939 --> 01:07:49,983 - Okay, yeah. No, but, yeah. - That's his rucksack. 912 01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:51,443 (wind howls) 913 01:07:52,944 --> 01:07:54,571 The production of the film 914 01:07:54,738 --> 01:07:59,076 was full of hardships that became part of the story. 915 01:07:59,826 --> 01:08:02,913 It was the storms that troubled us most. 916 01:08:07,084 --> 01:08:13,006 And after 10, 12 days pandemonium of storms, we had a crystal-clear light. 917 01:08:13,173 --> 01:08:16,802 A completely blue sky morning and I said-- 918 01:08:16,968 --> 01:08:18,929 We flew up with the helicopter. 919 01:08:19,096 --> 01:08:20,889 It would take weeks to climb up there. 920 01:08:21,056 --> 01:08:22,933 We flew up in the helicopter. 921 01:08:23,809 --> 01:08:25,435 Made the mistake that the-- 922 01:08:25,602 --> 01:08:29,272 our reserve rescue team did not fly first. 923 01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:32,275 The helicopter dropped us and then disappeared. 924 01:08:32,442 --> 01:08:38,073 And then an incredible hit, a storm hit us. 925 01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,492 In-- in a minute my-- 926 01:08:40,659 --> 01:08:43,787 We got in and my mustache was ice, 927 01:08:43,954 --> 01:08:46,998 and it was 20 degrees below zero. 928 01:08:47,165 --> 01:08:50,418 It may be a 200 kilometer storm. 929 01:08:51,044 --> 01:08:53,880 - Well, we dug a hole into the ice. - Mm-hmm. 930 01:08:54,047 --> 01:08:56,133 Just like a barrel of wine, 931 01:08:56,299 --> 01:08:58,093 and crawled in and sat there. 932 01:08:58,260 --> 01:09:01,346 And we were 55 hours, 933 01:09:02,264 --> 01:09:05,142 two days, two nights and a half a day, 934 01:09:05,308 --> 01:09:06,935 something like that. 935 01:09:07,102 --> 01:09:09,980 And it was storm, storm and white out. 936 01:09:10,147 --> 01:09:14,359 I could not see you at this distance anymore. 937 01:09:14,526 --> 01:09:15,986 And no sleeping bags? 938 01:09:16,153 --> 01:09:18,655 Nothing. No tent, no food. 939 01:09:18,822 --> 01:09:20,907 I had two little chocolate bars 940 01:09:21,074 --> 01:09:23,618 that I distributed at the beginning. 941 01:09:25,287 --> 01:09:28,373 But again it's-- it's not that I-- I'm not the protagonist-- 942 01:09:28,540 --> 01:09:30,458 - No, I know, but-- - Bruce Chatwin-- 943 01:09:30,625 --> 01:09:34,004 You told me something about your rucksack in that moment. What happened? 944 01:09:34,171 --> 01:09:37,674 I sat on the rucksack for-- for all this time, 945 01:09:37,841 --> 01:09:41,595 - and it-- it sheltered me from-- - Yeah, yes. 946 01:09:41,761 --> 01:09:44,055 Because you lose a lot of temperature when you sit... 947 01:09:44,222 --> 01:09:46,766 - On ice. - ...on ice, yeah. 948 01:09:47,851 --> 01:09:51,146 But people say, "It saved your life." 949 01:09:51,313 --> 01:09:56,026 No, that's nonsense because the two others were just sitting on the ice as well, 950 01:09:56,193 --> 01:09:58,111 - and they-- they did not die. - Yeah. 951 01:09:59,070 --> 01:10:02,449 And then they tried to come towards us, 952 01:10:02,616 --> 01:10:04,034 - and they-- - That was not possible. 953 01:10:04,201 --> 01:10:06,203 No. Well, they tried, 954 01:10:06,369 --> 01:10:08,788 but they were taken down by an avalanche. 955 01:10:08,955 --> 01:10:13,376 And one of them snapped his finger and took his gloves off, 956 01:10:13,543 --> 01:10:18,757 and threw it in the storm and asked for the waiter to pay for his cappuccino. 957 01:10:20,133 --> 01:10:22,135 So, they had to take him down. 958 01:10:22,302 --> 01:10:26,348 After 55 hours, we saw a bit of the sky. 959 01:10:26,514 --> 01:10:30,852 Our helicopter was able to take us out. 960 01:10:34,231 --> 01:10:39,611 Since then, Bruce's rucksack is more than just a memory of him. 961 01:10:40,487 --> 01:10:43,990 Both Bruce and I explored the world on foot. 962 01:10:44,157 --> 01:10:45,533 I, myself, 963 01:10:45,700 --> 01:10:48,119 believing in the power of walking, 964 01:10:48,286 --> 01:10:50,956 have travelled on foot from Munich to Paris 965 01:10:51,122 --> 01:10:54,084 as a pilgrimage to save my mentor, 966 01:10:54,251 --> 01:10:57,254 Lotte Eisner, from dying. 967 01:10:57,879 --> 01:10:59,839 My dairies of this march 968 01:11:00,006 --> 01:11:04,135 were published under the title of Walking in Ice, 969 01:11:04,302 --> 01:11:08,473 and Bruce often carried my book in his rucksack. 970 01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:13,603 It... has a value that you cannot describe. 971 01:11:15,480 --> 01:11:17,524 Bruce always liked my dictum, 972 01:11:17,691 --> 01:11:19,317 when I said to him, 973 01:11:19,484 --> 01:11:24,322 "The world reveals itself to those who travel on foot." 974 01:11:25,699 --> 01:11:27,659 (water falls) 975 01:11:34,499 --> 01:11:36,459 (speaking indistinctly) 976 01:11:44,718 --> 01:11:48,138 During our first encounters in Australia, 977 01:11:48,305 --> 01:11:52,726 I told Bruce about my interest to make a feature film 978 01:11:52,892 --> 01:11:56,229 based on his book The Viceroy of Ouidah. 979 01:11:56,396 --> 01:12:01,067 A Brazilian outlaw steps on the shores of West Africa, 980 01:12:01,443 --> 01:12:05,613 and becomes the biggest slave trader of his time. 981 01:12:09,909 --> 01:12:11,745 I got a call from Bruce 982 01:12:11,911 --> 01:12:14,748 a year or whatever later, and he says, 983 01:12:14,914 --> 01:12:17,000 "David Bowie wants to buy the rights." 984 01:12:17,167 --> 01:12:21,296 And I said, "My God! No, no, no, no, no, no! Not David Bowie. 985 01:12:21,463 --> 01:12:24,215 I have to do it," And I immediately went into it. 986 01:12:24,382 --> 01:12:26,217 And you actually discovered, 987 01:12:26,384 --> 01:12:28,428 I see it for the first time here, 988 01:12:28,595 --> 01:12:30,847 you discovered this, my screenplay, here. 989 01:12:31,014 --> 01:12:33,683 Shakespeare: This is your screenplay with Bruce's annotations all over it. 990 01:12:33,850 --> 01:12:35,518 Which he never sent to me. 991 01:12:35,685 --> 01:12:37,979 Never did. They've never sent it to me. 992 01:12:38,146 --> 01:12:39,647 Here, you can see there's-- 993 01:12:39,814 --> 01:12:43,693 Even the names have annotations. 994 01:12:43,860 --> 01:12:46,988 Then, for example, here. 995 01:12:50,033 --> 01:12:52,452 It's full of annotations. 996 01:12:52,619 --> 01:12:55,205 Shakespeare: Do you think they-- Would they have helped? 997 01:12:55,372 --> 01:12:56,915 I do not know. 998 01:12:57,082 --> 01:12:58,750 I have not read it. I-- 999 01:12:58,917 --> 01:13:02,295 It's the first time I'm holding this in my life. 1000 01:13:02,462 --> 01:13:06,716 First time I have his annotations to my screenplay. 1001 01:13:07,842 --> 01:13:09,928 [Shakespeare] I'm gonna read what Bruce writes about you 1002 01:13:10,095 --> 01:13:13,640 when he goes out to watch you film it. 1003 01:13:13,807 --> 01:13:18,728 He describes you as a compendium of contradictions. 1004 01:13:18,895 --> 01:13:21,523 Immensely tough, yet vulnerable. 1005 01:13:21,689 --> 01:13:25,360 Affectionate and remote, austere and sensual. 1006 01:13:25,527 --> 01:13:28,863 Not particularly well adjusted to the strains of everyday life, 1007 01:13:29,030 --> 01:13:30,824 but functioning efficiently 1008 01:13:30,990 --> 01:13:33,118 under extreme conditions. 1009 01:13:33,284 --> 01:13:34,994 He was also the one person 1010 01:13:35,161 --> 01:13:38,039 with whom I could have a one-to-one conversation 1011 01:13:38,206 --> 01:13:41,918 on what I would call "the sacramental aspect of walking." 1012 01:13:42,085 --> 01:13:44,462 It sounds like he's treating you as a kind of brother. 1013 01:13:45,630 --> 01:13:47,882 In a way, he was, and... 1014 01:13:48,049 --> 01:13:50,552 you see he was already so ill... 1015 01:13:50,718 --> 01:13:52,429 that he couldn't travel. 1016 01:13:52,595 --> 01:13:54,389 When I invited him, 1017 01:13:54,556 --> 01:13:55,890 "No, I cannot travel." 1018 01:13:56,057 --> 01:14:00,645 And then he said, "I'm doing a little bit better, but I need a wheelchair." 1019 01:14:01,896 --> 01:14:03,064 I wrote back to him, 1020 01:14:03,231 --> 01:14:07,610 "Bruce, a wheelchair in the terrain we are filming in is of no help. 1021 01:14:07,777 --> 01:14:12,490 It's too rugged, but I will give you four hammockers 1022 01:14:12,657 --> 01:14:14,075 and one shadow bearer." 1023 01:14:14,242 --> 01:14:15,952 I mean, they had these huge umbrellas. 1024 01:14:16,119 --> 01:14:18,121 The kings had them carry it, 1025 01:14:18,288 --> 01:14:21,374 and they would wobble it around above you. 1026 01:14:21,541 --> 01:14:24,794 And that was kind of irresistible for Bruce. 1027 01:14:24,961 --> 01:14:27,630 He came, and he was in fairly good shape. 1028 01:14:27,797 --> 01:14:29,215 And he witnessed-- 1029 01:14:29,382 --> 01:14:30,550 He was actually walking. 1030 01:14:30,717 --> 01:14:32,010 Never used the hammocks. 1031 01:14:33,094 --> 01:14:38,016 He witnessed crazy moments with 800 female warriors. 1032 01:14:38,183 --> 01:14:42,228 I mean, we had them for six weeks in military training 1033 01:14:42,395 --> 01:14:44,731 by an Italian stunt man. 1034 01:14:44,898 --> 01:14:46,357 It was complete craze. 1035 01:14:46,524 --> 01:14:49,861 There was a moment where these ferocious young women, 1036 01:14:50,028 --> 01:14:53,531 and they're very, very articulate and very tough. 1037 01:14:53,698 --> 01:14:57,494 They were paid a day late, and there was a near riot. 1038 01:14:58,161 --> 01:15:02,248 And there was an incredible outburst by them, 1039 01:15:02,415 --> 01:15:05,084 and one of the production guys kicked one of them. 1040 01:15:05,251 --> 01:15:07,295 And then, I mean, it went-- 1041 01:15:07,462 --> 01:15:08,796 It became dangerous. 1042 01:15:08,963 --> 01:15:11,716 Out of the way! Attack! Attack! 1043 01:15:11,883 --> 01:15:17,472 Herzog: Bruce mentions the incident in his book, What Am I Doing Here? 1044 01:15:17,639 --> 01:15:21,434 He describes me as "A monument of sanity 1045 01:15:21,601 --> 01:15:24,771 in a cast of nervous breakdowns." 1046 01:15:25,563 --> 01:15:27,857 After I had calmed down the mayhem, 1047 01:15:28,149 --> 01:15:31,611 Bruce writes, "Werner, exhausted, 1048 01:15:31,778 --> 01:15:35,323 says to me, 'This was only an arabesque."' 1049 01:15:36,282 --> 01:15:40,370 Bruce describes Klaus Kinski as a kind of adolescent 1050 01:15:40,537 --> 01:15:41,955 with long, white hair. 1051 01:15:42,121 --> 01:15:43,456 And often, after Bruce died, 1052 01:15:43,623 --> 01:15:46,251 we would think that what would he be like had he lived? 1053 01:15:46,417 --> 01:15:49,379 And this image of Klaus Kinski in Cobra Verde came to mind. 1054 01:15:49,546 --> 01:15:51,130 That he would be a bit like that. 1055 01:15:51,464 --> 01:15:54,008 No! Don't let him get away! 1056 01:15:54,175 --> 01:15:57,679 - Stop him! Hold him! - Stay back! Stay back! 1057 01:15:57,845 --> 01:15:59,847 His wife will strangle him now. Stay back. 1058 01:16:07,188 --> 01:16:09,524 Herzog: Well, Kinski was particularly difficult. 1059 01:16:09,691 --> 01:16:14,654 it was our last film where Kinski was pretty much out of control... 1060 01:16:15,446 --> 01:16:19,158 and wouldn't do certain things and be violent. 1061 01:16:19,325 --> 01:16:23,079 I mean, there was physical violence also, which is impermissible. 1062 01:16:23,246 --> 01:16:24,789 Not on my set. 1063 01:16:24,956 --> 01:16:27,083 And Bruce witnessed some of it. 1064 01:16:27,250 --> 01:16:32,297 Not all, because he stayed for only two, three weeks or so. 1065 01:16:33,131 --> 01:16:36,050 I think he was in awe. 1066 01:16:36,217 --> 01:16:38,303 He was awestruck 1067 01:16:38,469 --> 01:16:42,348 of raw power of emotion 1068 01:16:42,515 --> 01:16:44,350 and vileness 1069 01:16:44,517 --> 01:16:47,562 and... a character 1070 01:16:47,729 --> 01:16:51,482 that... only exists in-- in novels. 1071 01:16:52,650 --> 01:16:56,237 And, of course, he was absolutely delighted 1072 01:16:56,404 --> 01:17:00,033 that I engaged a real king. 1073 01:17:00,867 --> 01:17:02,744 The King of Nsein, 1074 01:17:02,910 --> 01:17:06,289 with his entire 450 people entourage, 1075 01:17:06,456 --> 01:17:10,335 his sedan bearers and his shadow bearers, 1076 01:17:10,501 --> 01:17:13,171 and they would drum and shake in with him 1077 01:17:13,338 --> 01:17:15,131 in this wonderful-- 1078 01:17:15,298 --> 01:17:19,844 And Bruce said, "I-- That's what I had hoped to see once in my life." 1079 01:17:20,011 --> 01:17:23,264 I said, "You made it, and it's gonna be in the film. 1080 01:17:23,431 --> 01:17:25,475 This is gonna be in the film." 1081 01:17:25,975 --> 01:17:28,019 (tribal music plays) 1082 01:17:47,705 --> 01:17:49,707 There was another king, 1083 01:17:49,874 --> 01:17:52,126 a minor king of Elmina, 1084 01:17:52,293 --> 01:17:54,379 and he was curious about reading 1085 01:17:54,545 --> 01:17:57,882 Bruce's book, The Viceroy of Ouidah. 1086 01:17:58,049 --> 01:17:59,884 So, Bruce gave it to him. 1087 01:18:00,051 --> 01:18:02,470 And after three days, the king, 1088 01:18:02,637 --> 01:18:04,847 the other king, came back to him and... 1089 01:18:05,014 --> 01:18:06,891 (gun shots) 1090 01:18:07,058 --> 01:18:09,018 (tribal music plays) 1091 01:18:20,571 --> 01:18:25,243 He was somehow moving his head left, right and so, 1092 01:18:25,410 --> 01:18:27,328 and looked at him and, 1093 01:18:27,495 --> 01:18:30,832 and Bruce said "Well, then?" 1094 01:18:31,916 --> 01:18:33,835 And the king looked at him 1095 01:18:34,001 --> 01:18:39,090 and he said, "Mr. Chatwin, you wrote a roundabout book." 1096 01:18:40,717 --> 01:18:41,759 That was all he said, 1097 01:18:41,926 --> 01:18:44,887 and Bruce was completely and utterly delighted. 1098 01:18:46,222 --> 01:18:48,933 Bruce was very ill when he was in Ghana, 1099 01:18:49,100 --> 01:18:54,063 but walking and-- and enjoying himself. 1100 01:18:54,230 --> 01:18:55,440 And only later 1101 01:18:55,606 --> 01:18:59,485 he really lapsed into the final stage 1102 01:18:59,652 --> 01:19:00,987 of his illness. 1103 01:19:03,364 --> 01:19:04,490 And he was already-- 1104 01:19:04,657 --> 01:19:07,952 I think when I did Lohengrin, 1105 01:19:08,119 --> 01:19:11,247 he was still in very good shape. 1106 01:19:11,414 --> 01:19:14,667 With his wife he arrived in Bayreuth, 1107 01:19:14,834 --> 01:19:17,503 where I had staged Lohengrin. 1108 01:19:18,129 --> 01:19:20,631 He was very good looking. 1109 01:19:20,798 --> 01:19:24,135 There's no doubt, and some women in New York 1110 01:19:24,302 --> 01:19:28,264 who describe him as "alarmingly handsome," 1111 01:19:28,431 --> 01:19:30,600 Alarmingly handsome. 1112 01:19:30,767 --> 01:19:33,978 And, of course, for both sexes, 1113 01:19:34,145 --> 01:19:36,689 men and women fell for him. 1114 01:19:37,815 --> 01:19:41,527 I personally, and he says it, I was close and remote. 1115 01:19:41,694 --> 01:19:43,571 I always kept a certain distance. 1116 01:19:43,738 --> 01:19:46,115 We were very comfortable with that. 1117 01:19:46,282 --> 01:19:49,118 I remember one woman, who he had a brief liaison with. 1118 01:19:49,285 --> 01:19:52,371 She said, "He was out to seduce everything. 1119 01:19:52,538 --> 01:19:54,582 It didn't matter whether you were a man, a woman, 1120 01:19:54,749 --> 01:19:56,751 an ocelot or a tea cozy. 1121 01:19:56,918 --> 01:19:58,711 He wanted to seduce." 1122 01:19:59,545 --> 01:20:02,089 I do not care whether somebody 1123 01:20:02,256 --> 01:20:06,010 is bisexual or homosexual or whatever. 1124 01:20:06,177 --> 01:20:10,223 It's completely of no consequence for me. 1125 01:20:10,389 --> 01:20:11,599 Bruce is Bruce. 1126 01:20:20,316 --> 01:20:22,276 Herzog: How complicated was it for you 1127 01:20:22,443 --> 01:20:25,404 to know that he had relationship with men? 1128 01:20:26,572 --> 01:20:28,574 Not complicated. It wasn't a problem. 1129 01:20:29,659 --> 01:20:32,578 I mean, you know, because it didn't actually 1130 01:20:32,745 --> 01:20:36,749 impinge on our relationship. 1131 01:20:37,542 --> 01:20:39,961 I mean, I didn't-- I really didn't care. 1132 01:20:41,045 --> 01:20:45,132 Then he sometimes, he brought them to-- for the weekend 1133 01:20:45,299 --> 01:20:47,468 or something like that, and they were charming. 1134 01:20:48,636 --> 01:20:50,888 So, uh... 1135 01:20:51,055 --> 01:20:54,517 I wouldn't dream of divorcing him. 1136 01:20:54,684 --> 01:20:56,602 I mean, there was no question about that. 1137 01:20:58,813 --> 01:21:00,773 (music plays) 1138 01:21:06,904 --> 01:21:10,241 Herzog: It was still in the early days of AlDS 1139 01:21:10,408 --> 01:21:14,537 when Bruce Chatwin contracted the virus. 1140 01:21:14,704 --> 01:21:15,913 At that time, 1141 01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:18,624 wider awareness of the dangers 1142 01:21:18,791 --> 01:21:21,460 had just started to spread. 1143 01:21:27,008 --> 01:21:30,678 He made a pilgrimage to the monks of Mount Athos 1144 01:21:30,845 --> 01:21:34,348 and converted to the Greek Orthodox faith. 1145 01:21:36,392 --> 01:21:37,935 His ashes are buried 1146 01:21:38,102 --> 01:21:40,354 next to an Orthodox chapel 1147 01:21:40,521 --> 01:21:44,609 on a promontory overlooking the Aegean Sea. 1148 01:21:52,074 --> 01:21:54,243 (music plays) 1149 01:22:14,055 --> 01:22:15,306 I remember this place. 1150 01:22:15,473 --> 01:22:20,144 We used to sit here, and look out at the garden. 1151 01:22:21,646 --> 01:22:23,564 So this was a, you know, 1152 01:22:23,731 --> 01:22:26,609 a very happy place to come to. 1153 01:22:30,112 --> 01:22:32,990 It's very sad that Bruce isn't here. 1154 01:22:41,582 --> 01:22:46,712 Herzog: This is, apparently, the very last lines he ever wrote. 1155 01:22:48,673 --> 01:22:52,134 "Christ wore a seamless robe." 1156 01:22:52,301 --> 01:22:54,887 - "Christ wore a seamless robe." - "A seamless robe." 1157 01:22:56,097 --> 01:22:58,808 - End of story. - End of the story. 1158 01:22:58,975 --> 01:23:01,602 Never anything ever written again. 1159 01:23:01,769 --> 01:23:04,480 I mean, he dictated to Elizabeth, 1160 01:23:04,647 --> 01:23:09,610 but that's the last, last, last piece of handwriting we have. 1161 01:23:13,072 --> 01:23:13,906 Okay. 1162 01:23:18,411 --> 01:23:20,121 The book is closed. 1163 01:23:24,583 --> 01:23:27,545 (music plays) 1164 01:23:30,131 --> 01:23:33,801 While researching The Songlines in Australia, 1165 01:23:33,968 --> 01:23:37,596 Bruce already knew he was terminally ill. 1166 01:23:39,765 --> 01:23:41,809 The final pages of his book 1167 01:23:41,976 --> 01:23:46,022 carry the mood of a journey coming to an end. 1168 01:23:49,525 --> 01:23:51,902 He talks about the... the idea 1169 01:23:52,069 --> 01:23:54,530 that when close to death, 1170 01:23:54,697 --> 01:23:56,615 some aboriginal people take a long journey 1171 01:23:56,782 --> 01:23:59,076 back to the place of their conception. 1172 01:23:59,243 --> 01:24:03,164 And... that this-- this for me 1173 01:24:03,330 --> 01:24:05,499 was the central message 1174 01:24:05,666 --> 01:24:07,084 from-- from The Songlines. 1175 01:24:07,251 --> 01:24:11,213 And I think it was a message that held a lot of value 1176 01:24:11,380 --> 01:24:12,840 for Bruce at that point. 1177 01:24:13,007 --> 01:24:15,051 I think he was looking for a way to die. 1178 01:24:15,217 --> 01:24:17,636 Which is what I argue in the book, I guess. 1179 01:24:17,803 --> 01:24:22,475 Is that like Sartre looked-- was looking for a right way to live, 1180 01:24:22,641 --> 01:24:24,393 Chatwin was looking for a right way to die. 1181 01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:28,189 And-- and I think something about this scene, 1182 01:24:28,355 --> 01:24:30,441 spoke to him in that-- in that way. 1183 01:24:30,608 --> 01:24:32,610 Otherwise he wouldn't have ended the book like that. 1184 01:24:34,528 --> 01:24:39,700 Herzog: It looks a little bit as if Bruce was describing the death. 1185 01:24:39,867 --> 01:24:44,080 The right death that he, himself, would like to die. 1186 01:24:45,790 --> 01:24:49,502 Can you read the last passage of the book first, please? 1187 01:24:49,668 --> 01:24:51,462 Yes, and I agree with you. 1188 01:24:51,629 --> 01:24:55,216 I think this is about Bruce and his death, yeah. 1189 01:24:56,008 --> 01:24:57,885 "As I wrote in my notebooks, 1190 01:24:58,052 --> 01:25:00,137 the mystics believe the ideal man 1191 01:25:00,304 --> 01:25:03,140 shall walk himself to a right death. 1192 01:25:03,891 --> 01:25:06,393 He who has arrived, goes back. 1193 01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:11,023 In aboriginal Australia, there are specific rules for going back, 1194 01:25:11,190 --> 01:25:14,485 or rather for singing your way to where you belong, 1195 01:25:14,652 --> 01:25:16,570 to your conception site. 1196 01:25:16,737 --> 01:25:20,533 Only then can you become, or re-become, the ancestor. 1197 01:25:21,283 --> 01:25:25,663 The concept is quite similar to Heraclitus' mysterious dictum, 1198 01:25:25,830 --> 01:25:28,582 'Mortals and immortals, alive in their death, 1199 01:25:28,749 --> 01:25:30,417 dead in each other's life'. 1200 01:25:32,586 --> 01:25:34,004 Limpy hobbled ahead. 1201 01:25:34,171 --> 01:25:36,340 We followed on tiptoe. 1202 01:25:36,507 --> 01:25:38,259 The sky was incandescent, 1203 01:25:38,425 --> 01:25:41,137 and sharp shadows fell across the path. 1204 01:25:41,762 --> 01:25:44,223 A trickle of water dribbled down the cliff. 1205 01:25:45,266 --> 01:25:47,726 In a clearing, there were three hospital bedsteads 1206 01:25:47,893 --> 01:25:50,396 with mesh springs and no mattresses. 1207 01:25:50,563 --> 01:25:53,023 And on them, lay the three dying men. 1208 01:25:53,607 --> 01:25:55,359 They were almost skeletons. 1209 01:25:55,526 --> 01:25:57,987 Their beards and hair had gone. 1210 01:25:58,154 --> 01:26:00,156 One was strong enough to lift an arm. 1211 01:26:00,322 --> 01:26:02,324 Another, to say something. 1212 01:26:02,491 --> 01:26:03,868 When they heard who Limpy was, 1213 01:26:04,034 --> 01:26:06,704 all three smiled spontaneously, 1214 01:26:06,871 --> 01:26:08,581 the same grin. 1215 01:26:08,747 --> 01:26:11,375 Arkady folded his arms and watched. 1216 01:26:11,876 --> 01:26:14,044 'Aren't they wonderful?' Marian whispered, 1217 01:26:14,211 --> 01:26:16,797 putting her hand in mine and giving it a squeeze. 1218 01:26:16,964 --> 01:26:18,674 'Yes, they were all right. 1219 01:26:18,841 --> 01:26:20,134 They knew where they were going. 1220 01:26:20,301 --> 01:26:23,137 Smiling at death in the shade of a ghost-gum."' 1221 01:26:25,598 --> 01:26:27,558 (birds chirp) 1222 01:26:29,602 --> 01:26:31,562 (music plays) 1223 01:26:35,316 --> 01:26:37,276 (harmonizing) 1224 01:28:10,995 --> 01:28:13,789 (music continues) 1225 01:29:11,221 --> 01:29:12,890 (music fades) 95560

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