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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:11,845 --> 00:00:13,847 [whimsical music playing] 2 00:00:16,224 --> 00:00:18,643 [man] I moved to Utah around 1974. 3 00:00:20,103 --> 00:00:22,355 I'd been thrown out of college already, 4 00:00:22,439 --> 00:00:23,690 as an undesirable, 5 00:00:23,773 --> 00:00:25,275 with a 0.6 GPA. 6 00:00:26,317 --> 00:00:28,695 And, uh, I moved out here to ski. 7 00:00:29,738 --> 00:00:32,699 And that was just my raison d'être. 8 00:00:34,534 --> 00:00:35,535 It was more like, 9 00:00:35,618 --> 00:00:38,038 I was a skier that happened to be a lawyer, 10 00:00:38,121 --> 00:00:40,290 as opposed to a lawyer that happened to ski. 11 00:00:40,373 --> 00:00:43,209 [chuckles] So it's just me drinking wine in the evening 12 00:00:43,293 --> 00:00:45,128 and having to run in the morning two miles 13 00:00:45,211 --> 00:00:48,131 so I can get to work and at least be a little bushy-tailed. 14 00:00:48,673 --> 00:00:51,134 -[woman] Come on. -[D'Elia] We've got everybody else. 15 00:00:51,217 --> 00:00:53,428 [man] I had worked with Gerry on cases. 16 00:00:53,511 --> 00:00:54,429 Quite a character. 17 00:00:54,512 --> 00:00:56,306 I know what you bought that for, Gerry. 18 00:00:56,389 --> 00:00:57,974 -[D'Elia] For porno. -That's right. 19 00:00:58,058 --> 00:01:00,143 [man] He's brash. He's outspoken. 20 00:01:00,226 --> 00:01:03,688 -But he's gotta practice so he gets good. -[D'Elia] We looked rather professional. 21 00:01:03,772 --> 00:01:04,606 Yes. 22 00:01:04,689 --> 00:01:08,151 He doesn't fit the Salt Lake City mold. 23 00:01:08,234 --> 00:01:09,819 [D'Elia] This is Mike George. 24 00:01:09,903 --> 00:01:12,155 Just about to get some fantastic information. 25 00:01:12,238 --> 00:01:14,783 [George now] Gerry was on the arson team, 26 00:01:14,866 --> 00:01:16,993 and bombs fell under arson. 27 00:01:17,077 --> 00:01:19,621 And, uh, Monday, Monday evening, 28 00:01:19,704 --> 00:01:20,997 oh, I drank a little bit, 29 00:01:21,081 --> 00:01:23,291 so I'm a little hungover coming into work. 30 00:01:23,374 --> 00:01:26,211 The radio was on, and I heard that there was a bombing, 31 00:01:26,294 --> 00:01:29,380 and I knew that that was probably gonna be assigned to me. 32 00:01:30,215 --> 00:01:31,174 Um… 33 00:01:31,883 --> 00:01:34,969 One of the things that I did remember mentioning 34 00:01:35,053 --> 00:01:37,972 is that, "It's a beautiful day for a bombing." 35 00:01:41,101 --> 00:01:43,103 [suspenseful music playing] 36 00:01:53,863 --> 00:01:57,450 [mechanical humming] 37 00:02:00,286 --> 00:02:03,957 A lot goes on in the first couple of hours of the investigation that, 38 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,335 as a prosecutor that might have to argue the case, 39 00:02:07,418 --> 00:02:09,796 you want to see everything, get a picture of it. 40 00:02:09,879 --> 00:02:12,757 -[camera shutter clicking] -Went to the Judge Building. 41 00:02:12,841 --> 00:02:16,094 Doors are blown open, debris scattered all over the place. 42 00:02:16,803 --> 00:02:18,888 I walked right over to Steve Christensen, 43 00:02:18,972 --> 00:02:20,348 and he was lying there. 44 00:02:20,431 --> 00:02:22,767 His, uh, chest had been ripped apart. 45 00:02:23,476 --> 00:02:27,063 And I just kind of stood there for a while and took the scene in, 46 00:02:27,147 --> 00:02:30,108 so that it would form a mental impression for a later date. 47 00:02:30,191 --> 00:02:32,694 [woman] Investigators were gathering evidence 48 00:02:32,777 --> 00:02:35,113 when they got word of the second explosion. 49 00:02:35,196 --> 00:02:37,824 The scene was the Holladay home of Gary Sheets, 50 00:02:37,907 --> 00:02:40,118 a former business associate of Christensen's. 51 00:02:40,201 --> 00:02:41,494 [D'Elia] Within the hour, 52 00:02:41,578 --> 00:02:45,331 there was a call that another bomb had exploded. 53 00:02:45,415 --> 00:02:48,418 I went over, and there's Kathy Sheets lying there. 54 00:02:48,501 --> 00:02:51,212 -[camera shutter clicking] -At this stage of the game, 55 00:02:51,838 --> 00:02:53,214 we're worried. 56 00:02:53,298 --> 00:02:55,758 We got somebody running around, planting bombs. 57 00:02:55,842 --> 00:02:57,135 We don't know who it is, 58 00:02:57,218 --> 00:02:58,720 we have no suspects, 59 00:02:58,803 --> 00:03:00,722 and we were rather worried 60 00:03:00,805 --> 00:03:03,057 that somebody else might get injured or killed. 61 00:03:03,766 --> 00:03:05,059 [ominous music playing] 62 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:14,068 -[siren wailing] -[helicopter blades whirring] 63 00:03:22,744 --> 00:03:28,124 At the time, I didn't know anything about the history of, uh, Mormonism. 64 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:31,169 I didn't know anything about any Mormon documents. 65 00:03:31,252 --> 00:03:34,839 I knew nothing about what deals were gonna be going on. 66 00:03:34,923 --> 00:03:36,758 Knew nothing about the Church. 67 00:03:37,258 --> 00:03:39,886 But when Mark Hofmann was bombed, 68 00:03:39,969 --> 00:03:41,679 I learned my Mormon there. 69 00:03:41,763 --> 00:03:45,767 [man] Mark Hofmann lies in critical condition at LDS Hospital. 70 00:03:45,850 --> 00:03:49,812 Witnesses say his body was badly mangled when his car exploded today. 71 00:03:49,896 --> 00:03:53,441 [man 2] A witness said he rushed to his aid and gave Hofmann a blessing. 72 00:03:53,524 --> 00:03:55,193 He was wearing the LDS garment, 73 00:03:55,276 --> 00:03:57,946 and, uh, I took out my oil, 74 00:03:58,029 --> 00:04:00,490 uh, consecrated oil that I usually carry with me, 75 00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:02,533 and I commanded him to live 76 00:04:02,617 --> 00:04:06,913 and that proper medical help would get to him quickly, which it did. 77 00:04:06,996 --> 00:04:09,916 -You commanded him to live? -I commanded him to live. 78 00:04:10,750 --> 00:04:14,045 [man 2] Investigators searched Hofmann's bombed-out car, 79 00:04:14,128 --> 00:04:16,589 found documents possibly belonging to Hofmann. 80 00:04:20,343 --> 00:04:23,263 [D'Elia] We started getting into a lot of Mormon documents 81 00:04:23,346 --> 00:04:24,722 going on with Mark Hofmann. 82 00:04:24,806 --> 00:04:26,724 We're starting to learn such things 83 00:04:26,808 --> 00:04:29,269 as there's Salamander letters out there. 84 00:04:29,352 --> 00:04:31,521 [man 1] Last year, Hofmann sold a document 85 00:04:31,604 --> 00:04:33,523 known as the White Salamander letter, 86 00:04:33,606 --> 00:04:36,317 to the men who were the apparent targets of the first attack. 87 00:04:36,401 --> 00:04:40,113 The valuable and controversial letter suggesting that the Mormon Church 88 00:04:40,196 --> 00:04:42,407 was founded on doctrine delivered by a spirit 89 00:04:42,490 --> 00:04:44,200 in the form of a white salamander. 90 00:04:44,284 --> 00:04:46,494 There was the McLellin Collection. 91 00:04:46,577 --> 00:04:48,705 [man 2] When officers searched Mark Hofmann's car 92 00:04:48,788 --> 00:04:51,749 and found a collection believed to be early Mormon historical documents. 93 00:04:51,833 --> 00:04:53,501 [woman] They're the McLellin Collection, 94 00:04:53,584 --> 00:04:56,504 books, diaries, revelations from the era of Joseph Smith. 95 00:04:56,587 --> 00:04:59,799 [man 3] They're rumored to concern the origins of the Mormon Church. 96 00:04:59,882 --> 00:05:02,677 Yes, there are a large number of, 97 00:05:03,177 --> 00:05:08,057 what we feel, very expensive documents in the automobile and found in the trunk. 98 00:05:08,141 --> 00:05:11,811 [D'Elia] That's when we started realizing that the Church was in play. 99 00:05:13,104 --> 00:05:15,523 And that something's really, really wrong here. 100 00:05:20,403 --> 00:05:23,573 For the last several months, Hofmann has been telling associates 101 00:05:23,656 --> 00:05:27,660 that Gordon B. Hinckley, Second Counselor in the LDS Church's First Presidency, 102 00:05:27,744 --> 00:05:31,914 had agreed to buy the so-called McLellin papers for $300,000. 103 00:05:31,998 --> 00:05:33,666 One thing appears certain. 104 00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:37,920 Alvin Rust, the man who describes himself as Mark Hofmann's silent partner, 105 00:05:38,004 --> 00:05:40,506 believed Gordon Hinckley would be the buyer. 106 00:05:40,590 --> 00:05:43,468 [George] When we interviewed Gordon Hinckley, 107 00:05:43,551 --> 00:05:46,429 I asked him, "Is there some record you have 108 00:05:47,513 --> 00:05:50,058 of your meetings with Mark Hofmann?" 109 00:05:50,141 --> 00:05:53,311 And he said, "No, I don't keep anything like that." 110 00:05:54,395 --> 00:05:58,107 Which I found very, very hard to believe. 111 00:05:58,191 --> 00:06:01,903 We have followed the normal, accepted and professional procedures 112 00:06:01,986 --> 00:06:03,905 employed by collectors generally, 113 00:06:04,655 --> 00:06:07,241 which have been legal and ethical in every respect 114 00:06:07,325 --> 00:06:09,911 insofar as we have been able to determine. 115 00:06:09,994 --> 00:06:13,790 [George] It became apparent that the Church 116 00:06:13,873 --> 00:06:16,167 was hindering our investigation. 117 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:20,296 [man 1] The official Church response said the Church hasn't suppressed information 118 00:06:20,380 --> 00:06:22,840 but has been open about its dealings with Hofmann. 119 00:06:22,924 --> 00:06:26,094 President Hinckley said the Church acquired some 40 documents 120 00:06:26,177 --> 00:06:28,012 through Mark Hofmann since 1980. 121 00:06:28,096 --> 00:06:32,433 Mr. Hofmann indicated he had access  to what he called the McLellin Collection. 122 00:06:32,517 --> 00:06:35,728 People who wanted to protect the Church 123 00:06:36,562 --> 00:06:39,399 didn't want  this document to come to light. 124 00:06:39,482 --> 00:06:42,568 -[monitor beeping] -And it could've given a lot of reason 125 00:06:42,652 --> 00:06:45,571 that Mark Hofmann would be murdered over. 126 00:06:47,407 --> 00:06:50,827 [man 2] Mark Hofmann is undergoing surgery tonight at LDS Hospital. 127 00:06:50,910 --> 00:06:52,912 Police are keeping a close watch. 128 00:07:00,545 --> 00:07:02,130 Welcome to Haus Hofmann. 129 00:07:02,672 --> 00:07:03,798 I'm William Hofmann, 130 00:07:03,881 --> 00:07:05,133 and this is my wife Lucy, 131 00:07:05,216 --> 00:07:07,301 Lucille Sears Hofmann. 132 00:07:07,385 --> 00:07:08,511 We're here tonight to… 133 00:07:08,594 --> 00:07:10,596 We're gonna talk a little bit about our… 134 00:07:11,180 --> 00:07:12,723 uh, recollections of our life, 135 00:07:12,807 --> 00:07:14,142 and what else? 136 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,105 What's happened to us up to now. Hope we have a few more years to go. 137 00:07:19,188 --> 00:07:21,399 So let's take off our coat and get to work. 138 00:07:22,150 --> 00:07:26,529 [Tanner] Mark Hofmann was raised  in a very faithful, devout Mormon home. 139 00:07:26,612 --> 00:07:27,989 In Utah, 140 00:07:28,072 --> 00:07:29,949 the whole culture around him 141 00:07:30,032 --> 00:07:33,244 would have been  everything relating to Mormonism. 142 00:07:33,327 --> 00:07:36,164 Be faithful and true in the gospel. 143 00:07:36,247 --> 00:07:41,294 [Tanner] It was a very controlled, religious environment. 144 00:07:41,377 --> 00:07:44,046 [Lucille] This is when Mark got his Eagle Scout award. 145 00:07:44,130 --> 00:07:46,549 We were really proud of him. He was 14 years old. 146 00:07:46,632 --> 00:07:49,260 [William] This is Mesita Pepita Winky. 147 00:07:49,343 --> 00:07:50,761 She was our dog.  We had her… 148 00:07:50,845 --> 00:07:53,806 [Lucille] This is Dorie and Mark on their wedding day. 149 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:55,725 They were married in the Salt Lake Temple. 150 00:07:55,808 --> 00:07:58,269 [Dorie] I got married when I was almost 21. 151 00:07:58,352 --> 00:08:00,396 He picked me up. We drove to the temple. 152 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,607 His family was close. 153 00:08:02,690 --> 00:08:04,025 His dad was really strict. 154 00:08:05,193 --> 00:08:08,654 [Metcalfe] Being raised LDS is an interesting experience. 155 00:08:08,738 --> 00:08:13,784 Mark told me about, uh, his father, Bill, coming over to the home one night 156 00:08:13,868 --> 00:08:17,497 and saw some children's books on the floor, 157 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:20,208 and they were books about dinosaurs. 158 00:08:20,291 --> 00:08:22,710 And he became visibly upset 159 00:08:22,793 --> 00:08:25,421 that they would have books that promoted evolution. 160 00:08:26,339 --> 00:08:29,550 Those were very fundamental core issues, 161 00:08:29,634 --> 00:08:31,677 and that was his dad. 162 00:08:31,761 --> 00:08:34,472 [William] Our Father in Heaven  has much love for us. 163 00:08:34,555 --> 00:08:37,642 We had some beautiful experiences in our lives. 164 00:08:38,309 --> 00:08:41,604 Mark grew up in a time period when many young people, 165 00:08:41,687 --> 00:08:44,357 if they differed from their parents on something, 166 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:45,942 didn't necessarily show it. 167 00:08:47,610 --> 00:08:50,613 So Mark followed the normal Latter-Day Saints tradition, 168 00:08:50,696 --> 00:08:53,908 where young men in particular advocated for the Church 169 00:08:53,991 --> 00:08:55,368 on what was called a mission. 170 00:08:59,163 --> 00:09:00,957 [rain pouring] 171 00:09:09,757 --> 00:09:12,426 [man] When we are preparing to go on a mission, 172 00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:16,180 and all of us were out, away from our homes for the first time, 173 00:09:16,264 --> 00:09:18,808 it's a questioning time for everyone. 174 00:09:18,891 --> 00:09:20,560 [rain pouring] 175 00:09:24,313 --> 00:09:26,315 [thunder rumbles] 176 00:09:30,987 --> 00:09:32,989 [uneasy music plays] 177 00:09:38,578 --> 00:09:42,331 [Measom] A lot of the early missionaries from the Church in the 1800s 178 00:09:42,415 --> 00:09:45,668 had spent time in the Manchester area. 179 00:09:46,544 --> 00:09:48,671 And so there were lots of libraries, 180 00:09:48,754 --> 00:09:50,381 used-book stores, 181 00:09:50,464 --> 00:09:53,926 and it was really a great place to look for old Mormon literature. 182 00:09:57,138 --> 00:09:59,557 And Mark explained to me 183 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,518 how he was able to walk into a bookstore 184 00:10:02,602 --> 00:10:04,353 and very quickly 185 00:10:04,437 --> 00:10:07,398 identify any books that were important to him. 186 00:10:08,065 --> 00:10:09,900 He knew what size they were, 187 00:10:09,984 --> 00:10:11,527 what colors they were, 188 00:10:11,611 --> 00:10:13,404 if it was a book that was beat up, 189 00:10:13,487 --> 00:10:15,323 didn't have a cover on it. 190 00:10:15,406 --> 00:10:17,033 And that's where Mark found 191 00:10:17,116 --> 00:10:20,411 many of the old, rare LDS books  that were there. 192 00:10:20,494 --> 00:10:24,206 [suspenseful music playing] 193 00:10:25,458 --> 00:10:30,004 In England, you could still find 19th-century pamphlets and books 194 00:10:30,087 --> 00:10:32,548 that would be hard to find in the United States. 195 00:10:33,507 --> 00:10:36,969 And some of the materials that existed in England attacked the Church. 196 00:10:37,887 --> 00:10:40,514 So Mark began to read the anti-Mormon publications, 197 00:10:40,598 --> 00:10:44,435 and was beginning to create a narrative in his mind of the Church and its history 198 00:10:44,518 --> 00:10:46,437 that was different from the tradition. 199 00:10:51,609 --> 00:10:53,402 When Mark explained to me 200 00:10:53,486 --> 00:10:56,113 some of the topics that he was researching, 201 00:10:56,947 --> 00:11:01,077 he realized there were a lot of false narratives propagated 202 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,372 by some of the brethren to hide the truth. 203 00:11:06,666 --> 00:11:09,502 And he was asking me, "What do you think… 204 00:11:10,544 --> 00:11:13,631 about lying for the Lord?" 205 00:11:14,882 --> 00:11:16,384 [typewriter clacking] 206 00:11:23,557 --> 00:11:25,810 [Richard Turley] He kept a box under his bed, 207 00:11:25,893 --> 00:11:29,772 in which he kept materials that were not necessarily friendly to the Church. 208 00:11:29,855 --> 00:11:31,565 He would tape the box up, 209 00:11:31,649 --> 00:11:35,236 and he would put his signature across the tape. 210 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,865 He was worried about somebody opening the box without him knowing it, 211 00:11:39,949 --> 00:11:43,661 and he did that constantly throughout his mission, sending books like this. 212 00:11:44,286 --> 00:11:49,458 [ominous music playing] 213 00:11:49,542 --> 00:11:50,960 -[man 1] Yeah. -[man 2] Yeah. 214 00:11:51,043 --> 00:11:53,087 [man 1] You got copies of the stuff? 215 00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:55,840 -[man 2] What we need. -[D'Elia] We're gonna do the whole thing. 216 00:11:55,923 --> 00:11:56,924 Speak. 217 00:11:57,007 --> 00:12:01,303 We took a conference room over, and we kind of called it the "war room." 218 00:12:01,387 --> 00:12:02,930 -Are you on hold? -I'm on hold. 219 00:12:03,013 --> 00:12:04,432 [D'Elia] God bless America. 220 00:12:04,515 --> 00:12:08,352 It was where we would all kick theories, evidence amongst each other 221 00:12:08,436 --> 00:12:13,023 and formulate a lot of our decisions on how we're going to go about things, 222 00:12:13,107 --> 00:12:15,067 who to interview, where to go. 223 00:12:15,151 --> 00:12:18,237 -[woman] How do I shut it off? -[D'Elia] Press the same thing. 224 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,322 [George] Early on in the investigation, 225 00:12:20,406 --> 00:12:23,242 other people that were involved with the Church, 226 00:12:23,325 --> 00:12:25,494 as well as the document community, 227 00:12:25,578 --> 00:12:26,746 were coming to light, 228 00:12:26,829 --> 00:12:29,957 and all of those people were potential suspects. 229 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,167 [TV show theme plays] 230 00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:35,296 Brent Metcalfe is a research historian of Mormon documents. 231 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,966 [Metcalfe now] Well, the way that the police put it to me 232 00:12:39,049 --> 00:12:41,552 is everyone's a suspect until they aren't. 233 00:12:42,261 --> 00:12:45,973 And so, of course, I'm going to be on the list. 234 00:12:46,056 --> 00:12:49,226 I hope you'll forgive me for asking a very blunt question, 235 00:12:49,310 --> 00:12:51,228 but it's one that needs to be asked. 236 00:12:51,312 --> 00:12:54,857 Did you have anything to do with the bombings yourself? 237 00:12:54,940 --> 00:12:56,525 Uh, no, uh, that's… 238 00:12:56,609 --> 00:12:57,818 That's not a… 239 00:12:57,902 --> 00:12:59,028 It's a blunt question, 240 00:12:59,111 --> 00:13:02,531 but one that I've been asked fairly frequently since all this began. 241 00:13:02,615 --> 00:13:03,783 And, not at all. 242 00:13:03,866 --> 00:13:07,787 Steve Christensen was one of the most loving people you could ever meet, 243 00:13:07,870 --> 00:13:11,624 and I just can't even imagine the type of mindset 244 00:13:11,707 --> 00:13:15,628 that would be needed to do the type of brutal killings that have been done. 245 00:13:15,711 --> 00:13:18,756 -And you don't know who might be involved? -No, I don't. 246 00:13:18,839 --> 00:13:20,841 [man] This will be a taped conversation 247 00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:24,011 taking place at the office of the Salt Lake County Attorney. 248 00:13:24,094 --> 00:13:26,347 Interviewee will be Brent Metcalfe. 249 00:13:26,430 --> 00:13:32,186 Early on, I was interviewed more than you can possibly believe. 250 00:13:32,269 --> 00:13:34,605 [man] Going on to tape number three, side A, 251 00:13:34,688 --> 00:13:37,274 a continuation of Brent Metcalfe's interview. 252 00:13:37,358 --> 00:13:40,569 [woman] This is tape number seven of the interview with Brent Metcalfe. 253 00:13:40,653 --> 00:13:41,779 [man] Tape number 13… 254 00:13:41,862 --> 00:13:45,449 And that's why I had to go in and take a lie-detector test. 255 00:13:46,408 --> 00:13:49,119 And I passed, of course. 256 00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:52,164 Let's see, who else was there? 257 00:13:52,248 --> 00:13:53,707 People like Al Rust, 258 00:13:53,791 --> 00:13:56,627 who had helped finance the McLellin Collection. 259 00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:58,295 I thought the Church had it. 260 00:13:58,379 --> 00:13:59,505 They thought I had it. 261 00:13:59,588 --> 00:14:04,301 The police would come in every day and asked every question from A to Z. 262 00:14:04,385 --> 00:14:07,221 I wasn't aware of it until I called the LDS Church. 263 00:14:07,304 --> 00:14:09,431 They said they couldn't tell me everything 264 00:14:09,515 --> 00:14:12,685 but shared little things that they were doing getting evidence. 265 00:14:12,768 --> 00:14:15,104 I didn't even know why. 266 00:14:15,187 --> 00:14:18,691 [Metcalfe] I think that there were  some of us that they basically 267 00:14:18,774 --> 00:14:20,776 kind of removed from the list. 268 00:14:21,610 --> 00:14:22,945 Shannon wasn't. 269 00:14:23,028 --> 00:14:24,822 Um, Shannon Flynn is in our studio. 270 00:14:24,905 --> 00:14:27,324 Shannon, would you stand up for a second, please? 271 00:14:27,408 --> 00:14:30,870 Now, you are a close associate of Mark Hofmann's 272 00:14:30,953 --> 00:14:33,497 and involved in some of his business dealings. 273 00:14:33,581 --> 00:14:36,333 I have to ask you the same question I asked Brent. 274 00:14:36,417 --> 00:14:38,586 Are you involved in any way in the bombings? 275 00:14:38,669 --> 00:14:40,004 In no way whatsoever. 276 00:14:43,382 --> 00:14:47,094 [man 1] It's only been a few hours, but what do we know about Flynn? 277 00:14:47,177 --> 00:14:50,890 [man 2] LDS Church historians say they never bought anything from Flynn, 278 00:14:50,973 --> 00:14:53,017 but that he was often seen with Hofmann 279 00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:55,477 when Hofmann had business with Church officials. 280 00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:59,732 Flynn says he was with Hofmann as late as 10:00 p.m. the night before the bombings. 281 00:15:01,150 --> 00:15:02,568 [interviewer] Explain to me, 282 00:15:02,651 --> 00:15:05,237 you were with him the night before the bombings. 283 00:15:05,738 --> 00:15:07,197 -Was not. -You were not? 284 00:15:07,281 --> 00:15:09,491 [taps chair rhythmically] No. No. 285 00:15:09,575 --> 00:15:13,412 Do you know what Mark was doing the night before the bombings? 286 00:15:13,495 --> 00:15:14,330 No. [ahem] 287 00:15:14,413 --> 00:15:17,791 When was the last time you saw Mark prior to the bombings? 288 00:15:20,169 --> 00:15:22,004 Well, my mind's very thin, 289 00:15:22,087 --> 00:15:24,965 but it could have been during the daytime. 290 00:15:25,925 --> 00:15:28,928 But a phone call or see him, 291 00:15:29,011 --> 00:15:29,887 but I don't know. 292 00:15:31,388 --> 00:15:32,890 So that's possible, sure. 293 00:15:35,309 --> 00:15:39,313 Do you have any idea who is involved? Are Mormon documents in the middle of it? 294 00:15:39,396 --> 00:15:43,484 Personally, I don't think so. I think this is an exercise in futility 295 00:15:43,567 --> 00:15:46,737 upon the part of the law enforcement community. 296 00:15:46,820 --> 00:15:51,575 They've spent a large amount of time investigating an interesting subject, 297 00:15:51,659 --> 00:15:55,371 but one that I don't think necessarily has anything to do with the murders. 298 00:15:55,454 --> 00:15:58,374 Do you have any idea who is involved in the bombings? 299 00:15:58,457 --> 00:15:59,291 Behind it? 300 00:15:59,375 --> 00:16:01,877 Well, if I did, I'd be the first one to tell. 301 00:16:01,961 --> 00:16:03,462 I have no idea. 302 00:16:03,545 --> 00:16:07,383 [D'Elia] The problem that I had with people like Shannon is, 303 00:16:07,466 --> 00:16:11,053 most of these people are gonna tell you only what they want to tell you. 304 00:16:11,136 --> 00:16:14,848 They're not necessarily going to be forthright or tell you the truth. 305 00:16:14,932 --> 00:16:18,060 [woman] Flynn's knowledge of the business led investigators to believe 306 00:16:18,143 --> 00:16:20,854 he may be involved in the bombing deaths of two people. 307 00:16:20,938 --> 00:16:25,192 [Flynn] I was being interviewed on the Friday night after the bombings, 308 00:16:25,275 --> 00:16:26,860 and I was there for hours. 309 00:16:27,444 --> 00:16:31,532 I was trying to convince them that I didn't do anything. 310 00:16:31,615 --> 00:16:33,951 [man] Over the last year, family and friends say 311 00:16:34,034 --> 00:16:36,704 Shannon spent a lot of time with this man, Mark Hofmann, 312 00:16:36,787 --> 00:16:39,373 collecting and selling LDS historical documents. 313 00:16:39,456 --> 00:16:44,336 [Metcalfe] I knew Shannon was very much into Soldier of Fortune type of things. 314 00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:46,755 And he was very good with a butterfly knife. 315 00:16:46,839 --> 00:16:49,758 I remember Shannon showing me how to use one one night. 316 00:16:49,842 --> 00:16:54,221 Uh, but Shannon was probably one of Mark's closest friends. 317 00:16:54,304 --> 00:16:57,599 And I had a sense that he knew information 318 00:16:57,683 --> 00:17:01,353 about Mark's document dealings and so on 319 00:17:01,437 --> 00:17:03,564 that others of us didn't know. 320 00:17:03,647 --> 00:17:05,649 [exciting 80's music playing] 321 00:17:07,526 --> 00:17:11,321 [Flynn] At that time, I was working with Mark full time for a living. 322 00:17:11,405 --> 00:17:13,532 I always carried a briefcase in those days 323 00:17:13,615 --> 00:17:15,492 because when he was dealing, 324 00:17:15,576 --> 00:17:22,541 the amounts were in $185,000, $330,000. 325 00:17:22,624 --> 00:17:26,628 We're talking big, and especially for 1985, 326 00:17:26,712 --> 00:17:27,838 big numbers. 327 00:17:27,921 --> 00:17:30,215 -[exciting '80s music continues] -[engine revs] 328 00:17:30,299 --> 00:17:31,175 [tires squeal] 329 00:17:35,596 --> 00:17:38,891 [Flynn] Mark had purchased a Toyota MR2. 330 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,190 He wanted to go fast in that car 331 00:17:46,273 --> 00:17:48,484 and pushed that thing as fast as it would go. 332 00:17:53,030 --> 00:17:54,656 [tires squeal] 333 00:17:55,407 --> 00:17:59,787 And in those days, I had a real interest in firearms. 334 00:17:59,870 --> 00:18:02,998 Mark gave me the money to purchase an Uzi. 335 00:18:09,505 --> 00:18:11,381 And that bucker fired full auto. 336 00:18:18,180 --> 00:18:19,556 For two Utah boys, 337 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,643 that's as dangerous as we've ever been in our lives. 338 00:18:25,979 --> 00:18:29,983 And the police questioned me quite closely on this lifestyle. 339 00:18:32,236 --> 00:18:34,571 I didn't realize I should have said, 340 00:18:34,655 --> 00:18:36,865 the moment I walked in that door, 341 00:18:36,949 --> 00:18:38,659 "I want an attorney." 342 00:18:38,742 --> 00:18:42,121 [man] The first criminal charge to emerge from an investigation 343 00:18:42,204 --> 00:18:44,748 into last week's  fatal bombings fell today. 344 00:18:44,832 --> 00:18:48,168 Flynn was charged with possessing an unregistered firearm today 345 00:18:48,252 --> 00:18:49,336 in federal court. 346 00:18:49,419 --> 00:18:51,130 Police arrested Flynn early Saturday 347 00:18:51,213 --> 00:18:53,924 when a search of his home turned up an Uzi. 348 00:18:54,049 --> 00:18:55,843 He's 27-year-old Shannon Flynn. 349 00:18:55,926 --> 00:18:57,594 Police Chief Bud Willoughby says 350 00:18:57,678 --> 00:18:59,680 the predawn search of Flynn's home also turned up 351 00:18:59,763 --> 00:19:02,641 some, quote, "incriminating evidence in the bombings." 352 00:19:02,724 --> 00:19:05,060 I became the number one news item. 353 00:19:05,144 --> 00:19:09,106 [woman] Investigators also seized  a book known as The Anarchist Cookbook, 354 00:19:09,189 --> 00:19:12,276 which details, among other things, how to make homemade bombs. 355 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,154 But Flynn's attorney said the evidence is circumstantial 356 00:19:15,237 --> 00:19:17,281 and not proof any bombs were made. 357 00:19:17,364 --> 00:19:19,950 They said, "What do you know about this book?" 358 00:19:20,033 --> 00:19:23,120 I said, "Well, I mean, I've read it." 359 00:19:23,203 --> 00:19:26,331 [man 1] Flynn is facing a federal charge of possessing an illegal weapon. 360 00:19:26,415 --> 00:19:30,460 [Flynn] This really rang the alarm bells in that police department that night. 361 00:19:30,544 --> 00:19:34,882 They got the chief of police, Bud Willoughby, out of bed. 362 00:19:34,965 --> 00:19:37,718 'Cause they'd just found Jack the Ripper. 363 00:19:37,801 --> 00:19:41,513 [man 2] Chief Willoughby said he hoped  the search of Flynn's storage garage 364 00:19:41,597 --> 00:19:44,349 would reveal the location of where the pipe bombs were made. 365 00:19:44,433 --> 00:19:50,397 Explosives and/or other materials that a bomb could be manufactured from. 366 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,609 [D'Elia] Shannon Flynn  was interesting in the sense that 367 00:19:53,692 --> 00:19:56,904 he came across as a person 368 00:19:57,529 --> 00:19:59,698 who wanted to be something that he wasn't, 369 00:19:59,781 --> 00:20:01,116 in the sense of… 370 00:20:01,742 --> 00:20:02,659 uh… 371 00:20:03,410 --> 00:20:06,496 James Bond, machine guns, bombs. 372 00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:09,541 [man 1] Flynn is facing a federal charge of possessing an illegal weapon. 373 00:20:09,625 --> 00:20:11,627 He's free on $50,000 bond. 374 00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:14,004 Attorney James Barber said there is no evidence 375 00:20:14,087 --> 00:20:16,256 Flynn participated in last week's bombings. 376 00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:17,299 He suspects… 377 00:20:17,382 --> 00:20:19,635 [Flynn] Fairly early on in the investigation, 378 00:20:19,718 --> 00:20:22,763 my attorney suggested that I take a lie detector test. 379 00:20:22,846 --> 00:20:25,349 And it's on a zero-centered scale. 380 00:20:25,432 --> 00:20:27,476 If you score somewhere in the middle, 381 00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:29,728 it's kind of, "We can't tell." 382 00:20:29,811 --> 00:20:33,398 By the time you get to a minus six and up, 383 00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:36,068 definitely untruthful. 384 00:20:36,985 --> 00:20:40,614 Plus six and up, definitely truthful. 385 00:20:41,949 --> 00:20:43,784 I scored a plus 12. 386 00:20:44,993 --> 00:20:48,372 [man 2] The search of a locker rented by Flynn, this afternoon, 387 00:20:48,455 --> 00:20:49,706 yielded no further clues. 388 00:20:49,790 --> 00:20:51,541 After a thorough probe, 389 00:20:51,625 --> 00:20:53,126 they found nothing. 390 00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:55,170 [man 3] What does this mean for the investigation? 391 00:20:55,254 --> 00:20:58,006 It means we'll just press on and look for other leads. 392 00:20:58,090 --> 00:20:59,424 That was a problem. 393 00:21:00,175 --> 00:21:03,553 And, um, we didn't know where to turn at that point. 394 00:21:03,637 --> 00:21:05,931 It's difficult to encapsulate a case like this 395 00:21:06,014 --> 00:21:09,434 within an hour's worth of, uh, direct examination on one witness. 396 00:21:09,518 --> 00:21:10,936 It was not a panic, 397 00:21:11,019 --> 00:21:15,649 but it certainly was something where we did not have enough information 398 00:21:15,732 --> 00:21:17,442 to be able to have a handle on it. 399 00:21:17,526 --> 00:21:20,529 [man 4] Flynn did say his arrest arose out of police attempts 400 00:21:20,612 --> 00:21:22,239 to make something break in the case. 401 00:21:22,322 --> 00:21:24,700 I'm just a little pawn in a very big game. 402 00:21:24,783 --> 00:21:27,077 And I just got crushed in the traffic. 403 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,496 -[monitor beeping] -[suspenseful music playing] 404 00:21:29,579 --> 00:21:33,917 [woman] Meanwhile, Hofmann continues to improve slowly at LDS Hospital. 405 00:21:34,001 --> 00:21:38,130 Today, his doctors upgraded his condition from serious to satisfactory. 406 00:21:38,213 --> 00:21:39,756 [D'Elia] Now, by then, 407 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:46,305 we also have people in the Judge Building who had some impact as witnesses. 408 00:21:47,431 --> 00:21:51,351 [man] A witness saw a strange man lingering at the downtown Judge Building 409 00:21:51,435 --> 00:21:53,645 at 6:45 on October 15th. 410 00:21:53,729 --> 00:21:55,314 He could not identify the man. 411 00:21:55,397 --> 00:21:57,524 He was kind of clean-cut. 412 00:21:57,607 --> 00:22:02,070 He had like a high school athletic jacket on, 413 00:22:02,154 --> 00:22:03,989 without the letter on it. 414 00:22:04,072 --> 00:22:08,118 The actual, uh, fabric on the jacket was green and… 415 00:22:08,201 --> 00:22:12,789 There was a potential witness talking about a person going up 416 00:22:12,873 --> 00:22:15,250 to see Steve Christensen with a package, 417 00:22:15,334 --> 00:22:18,712 early in the morning, with a green letterman's jacket. 418 00:22:18,795 --> 00:22:22,632 [man] The man took an elevator upstairs, but he did not know to which floor. 419 00:22:22,716 --> 00:22:25,969 Just brown wrapping paper, and up in the left-hand corner 420 00:22:26,053 --> 00:22:29,056 was the name of, "To Steve Christensen." 421 00:22:29,681 --> 00:22:31,808 And this is starting to get around now, 422 00:22:31,892 --> 00:22:33,393 this green letterman's jacket. 423 00:22:34,644 --> 00:22:35,479 Um… 424 00:22:39,649 --> 00:22:42,486 I had watched the news, and I saw where they mentioned, 425 00:22:42,569 --> 00:22:47,115 uh, the person on the elevator was wearing this green letterman jacket. 426 00:22:50,202 --> 00:22:51,870 And I recognized it 427 00:22:51,953 --> 00:22:55,457 as the same type of jacket that Mark wore. 428 00:23:01,588 --> 00:23:03,507 So we went back to the office 429 00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:06,927 and started making a search warrant for Mark Hofmann's house. 430 00:23:11,723 --> 00:23:15,894 -[projector whirring] -[somber music playing] 431 00:23:17,979 --> 00:23:22,150 As the intrigue deepened, the two victims from Tuesday's bombings were laid to rest. 432 00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:24,945 Kathy Sheets was eulogized as a compassionate woman 433 00:23:25,028 --> 00:23:27,447 and remembered for her silent acts of charity. 434 00:23:27,531 --> 00:23:30,117 A thousand people or more attended the service. 435 00:23:31,326 --> 00:23:33,995 [man] Mrs. Sheets was a graduate of the University of Utah 436 00:23:34,079 --> 00:23:36,957 and taught school before becoming a full-time mother. 437 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,419 Friends describe her as fun-loving with a great sense of humor. 438 00:23:40,502 --> 00:23:43,130 She is survived by her husband and four children. 439 00:23:43,213 --> 00:23:44,506 [somber music continues] 440 00:23:47,509 --> 00:23:48,802 [Dorie] After the bombings, 441 00:23:48,885 --> 00:23:51,263 Mark was released from the hospital and able to come home. 442 00:23:51,972 --> 00:23:53,640 It was a relief to have him home. 443 00:23:53,723 --> 00:23:55,434 I was really happy to have him home. 444 00:23:56,059 --> 00:23:57,352 And the kids were happy. 445 00:23:57,436 --> 00:23:59,187 The neighbors were very supportive. 446 00:23:59,980 --> 00:24:02,566 We had a poster on our window of our house. 447 00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:05,318 [woman] I know the faith that family has, 448 00:24:05,402 --> 00:24:07,070 and that is what is gonna get 449 00:24:07,946 --> 00:24:09,156 the family through this. 450 00:24:09,239 --> 00:24:10,949 [church bell tolling] 451 00:24:11,032 --> 00:24:12,951 [woman] To the north in Davis County, 452 00:24:13,034 --> 00:24:15,328 neighbors mourn another victim, Steve Christensen. 453 00:24:15,412 --> 00:24:19,040 Christensen is survived by his wife, Terri, and three sons. 454 00:24:19,124 --> 00:24:21,042 Was church interest part of Steve's motivation? 455 00:24:21,126 --> 00:24:22,335 Mm-hmm. 456 00:24:22,419 --> 00:24:23,545 Yeah. 457 00:24:23,628 --> 00:24:24,504 I'm sure it was. 458 00:24:25,380 --> 00:24:28,091 He was a kind, gentle, uh, 459 00:24:28,175 --> 00:24:29,968 very compassionate person. 460 00:24:30,051 --> 00:24:32,554 He was always thoughtful of other people. 461 00:24:32,637 --> 00:24:34,139 And I don't know of anyone 462 00:24:34,222 --> 00:24:35,432 who didn't love him. 463 00:24:35,515 --> 00:24:37,517 [Mark] What time in the morning is it? 464 00:24:37,601 --> 00:24:38,852 Let's see. 465 00:24:38,935 --> 00:24:39,936 [Dorie] It's 7:30. 466 00:24:40,645 --> 00:24:41,688 [Mark] Wow! 467 00:24:42,689 --> 00:24:44,900 So we were sitting around in our living room, 468 00:24:44,983 --> 00:24:48,403 having that feeling inside me that everything's gonna be okay, 469 00:24:48,487 --> 00:24:50,322 enjoying being together as a family. 470 00:24:51,281 --> 00:24:53,366 -[Mark] Michael. -[Dorie kissing] 471 00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:55,535 [Dorie] And life would be back to normal. 472 00:24:57,871 --> 00:24:58,788 And, you know, 473 00:24:58,872 --> 00:25:01,958 our little 15 minutes of fame would be over. 474 00:25:03,043 --> 00:25:04,711 And we'd be back to normal. 475 00:25:05,795 --> 00:25:08,298 It's beyond me why someone would do what they did. 476 00:25:09,883 --> 00:25:12,385 You know, leaving bombs for people to pick up. 477 00:25:12,469 --> 00:25:15,096 A kid could pick that up, a toddler, 478 00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:16,556 a friend of one of my kids. 479 00:25:17,807 --> 00:25:19,142 People that do this, uh… 480 00:25:21,061 --> 00:25:23,146 I can't comprehend that mind, 481 00:25:23,230 --> 00:25:24,439 why they would do it. 482 00:25:24,523 --> 00:25:27,484 I don't know why anyone would want to kill me. I've no idea. 483 00:25:28,443 --> 00:25:29,528 [baby coos] 484 00:25:31,446 --> 00:25:34,032 [Dorie] Talking to Mark, I knew something was wrong. 485 00:25:34,658 --> 00:25:36,618 But I didn't know what was wrong. 486 00:25:36,701 --> 00:25:38,286 …don't have to stand up… 487 00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:40,372 It's like something's-something's off. 488 00:25:40,455 --> 00:25:41,706 [ominous music plays] 489 00:25:41,790 --> 00:25:43,708 [whistles, clicks] 490 00:25:43,792 --> 00:25:46,836 [Dorie talking indistinctly to baby] 491 00:25:49,798 --> 00:25:53,260 [phone ringing] 492 00:25:56,638 --> 00:25:57,722 Okay. Goodbye. 493 00:25:59,224 --> 00:26:00,100 Two o'clock. 494 00:26:00,183 --> 00:26:02,394 -[D'Elia] He'll make his announcement? -Yeah. 495 00:26:02,477 --> 00:26:04,980 -[suspenseful music playing] -[birds chirping] 496 00:26:19,953 --> 00:26:23,123 [Dorie] These two men came in the door, and… 497 00:26:23,206 --> 00:26:25,375 I just remember them asking me… 498 00:26:25,458 --> 00:26:28,003 Asking me for the keys to the house, 499 00:26:28,086 --> 00:26:30,130 and asking me for the code to the alarm. 500 00:26:30,213 --> 00:26:32,966 Then the police say, "We need to search your house. 501 00:26:33,049 --> 00:26:35,218 Your husband is a suspect in this." 502 00:26:35,844 --> 00:26:37,095 How could that be? 503 00:26:37,971 --> 00:26:40,181 [suspenseful music playing] 504 00:26:40,265 --> 00:26:44,144 [George] There were friends of Mark who had contacted the police 505 00:26:44,227 --> 00:26:47,355 once they learned of the letterman's jacket. 506 00:26:47,439 --> 00:26:51,735 And we applied for and received a search warrant for Mark's residence, 507 00:26:51,818 --> 00:26:54,696 which was executed later that night. 508 00:26:54,779 --> 00:26:57,866 By 6:00, a swarm of city and county law enforcement officials 509 00:26:57,949 --> 00:27:00,660 were going over the Hofmann home with a fine-tooth comb. 510 00:27:00,744 --> 00:27:02,912 Do we know what we're really looking for? 511 00:27:02,996 --> 00:27:05,165 Yeah, I know a few things. 512 00:27:05,248 --> 00:27:09,085 I know there's a green letterman's jacket I'd like to find out if it's there. 513 00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:12,714 I'd like to see if there's anything relating to bombs. 514 00:27:15,216 --> 00:27:17,469 [woman] Searchers went through books and manuscripts, 515 00:27:17,552 --> 00:27:21,264 the documents accumulated by the collector suspected of being a murderer. 516 00:27:21,348 --> 00:27:25,352 [D'Elia] Um, I don't believe that we found anything having to do with bombs. 517 00:27:27,562 --> 00:27:30,649 But we did find the green letterman's jacket. 518 00:27:31,483 --> 00:27:33,151 [camera shutter clicks] 519 00:27:33,902 --> 00:27:35,820 [George] Well, if it was up to D'Elia, 520 00:27:35,904 --> 00:27:38,990 they would have arrested Mark the night of the search warrant. 521 00:27:40,784 --> 00:27:42,243 But I kept saying, 522 00:27:42,327 --> 00:27:43,703 "What's your motive?" 523 00:27:43,787 --> 00:27:46,498 [woman] For more than three hours, officers sifted through boxes 524 00:27:46,581 --> 00:27:49,709 and collected evidence they hope to use in their case against Hofmann. 525 00:27:49,793 --> 00:27:53,672 In all, more than 30 containers and boxes of evidence were collected, 526 00:27:53,755 --> 00:27:56,633 so much that a truck had to be called in to haul it away. 527 00:27:57,342 --> 00:27:58,968 Speculation has centered around 528 00:27:59,052 --> 00:28:02,597 whether the man witnesses say they saw carry the bomb into the Judge Building 529 00:28:02,681 --> 00:28:04,724 is the same man as Mark Hofmann. 530 00:28:04,808 --> 00:28:06,976 That jacket could have been from anybody 531 00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:09,104 who'd graduated from Olympus High School. 532 00:28:09,187 --> 00:28:12,023 Could've been purchased at a second-hand store. 533 00:28:12,649 --> 00:28:16,111 So there were still a lot of questions that needed to be answered. 534 00:28:16,194 --> 00:28:19,280 [Decker] The press has rushed to bring you every development 535 00:28:19,364 --> 00:28:21,366 in an energetic police investigation. 536 00:28:21,449 --> 00:28:23,576 Now, just in time for the evening news, 537 00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:24,953 there is a suspect. 538 00:28:25,036 --> 00:28:27,580 But the rapidity with which things changed from yesterday 539 00:28:27,664 --> 00:28:29,040 should give us pause tonight. 540 00:28:29,124 --> 00:28:32,752 This isn't a mystery story with a quick, clear, satisfying ending. 541 00:28:32,836 --> 00:28:35,922 We don't know what happened. We shouldn't jump to conclusions… 542 00:28:36,005 --> 00:28:39,259 [now] They would hope for a nice clean bombing case, 543 00:28:39,342 --> 00:28:40,719 to find some bombing parts, 544 00:28:40,802 --> 00:28:43,012 to be able to show where he'd purchased them, 545 00:28:43,096 --> 00:28:45,306 how he had the skill to put them together. 546 00:28:45,390 --> 00:28:49,310 And instead, they found, uh, Latter-Day Saint history 547 00:28:49,394 --> 00:28:52,063 and documents that only nerds cared about. 548 00:28:52,147 --> 00:28:54,524 [engine idling] 549 00:28:54,607 --> 00:28:57,944 There were more documents than we had anticipated. 550 00:28:58,570 --> 00:29:02,365 We were learning that Mark had all of these business deals 551 00:29:02,449 --> 00:29:04,409 that needed to be looked at. 552 00:29:16,838 --> 00:29:18,006 [pensive music playing] 553 00:29:20,049 --> 00:29:24,012 [man] The first time I met Mark would have been 1984. 554 00:29:25,805 --> 00:29:31,269 Mark told me that he was very well respected by the Mormon Church 555 00:29:31,352 --> 00:29:34,022 for all the documents he was finding. 556 00:29:36,316 --> 00:29:37,484 And at this point, 557 00:29:37,567 --> 00:29:42,113 he had gotten involved with things which are not Mormon-related. 558 00:29:42,197 --> 00:29:45,241 First editions, history, Americana. 559 00:29:46,201 --> 00:29:47,035 So I said, 560 00:29:47,118 --> 00:29:49,162 "What sort of things are you finding?" 561 00:29:49,245 --> 00:29:51,247 [Mark] Hi, this is a long-distance call. 562 00:29:51,331 --> 00:29:52,916 Can I please speak with someone 563 00:29:52,999 --> 00:29:56,586 who is in charge of acquiring material for your archives? 564 00:29:56,669 --> 00:29:58,671 [man] New York City in 1984. 565 00:29:59,380 --> 00:30:02,759 A quiet, unimposing Mormon documents collector from Utah 566 00:30:02,842 --> 00:30:06,513 says he found something amazing in this Manhattan bookstore. 567 00:30:07,305 --> 00:30:10,350 [Schiller] He had been to Argosy bookshop 568 00:30:10,433 --> 00:30:12,435 during his trip to New York 569 00:30:12,519 --> 00:30:15,230 and bought a couple of pieces of paper 570 00:30:15,313 --> 00:30:16,856 that interested him. 571 00:30:16,940 --> 00:30:19,526 And one of them was called The Oath of a Freeman. 572 00:30:19,609 --> 00:30:22,320 [man] The first document printed in the New World. 573 00:30:22,403 --> 00:30:25,114 [woman] The so-called Oath of a Freeman, discovered by Hofmann, 574 00:30:25,198 --> 00:30:28,576 is purported to be the first printed material in colonial America… 575 00:30:28,660 --> 00:30:30,578 [dramatic music playing] 576 00:30:30,662 --> 00:30:32,497 [Schiller] People had looked for it, 577 00:30:32,580 --> 00:30:35,917 it had been reprinted in textbooks, 578 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,129 but, uh, the original sheet of paper had never been found. 579 00:30:40,213 --> 00:30:42,674 [Mark on the phone] If you'd be interested in it, 580 00:30:42,757 --> 00:30:45,260 around the price that I just quoted, 581 00:30:45,343 --> 00:30:47,595 then I'll-I'll gladly fly out there too 582 00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:49,764 and let you take a look at the original. 583 00:30:49,848 --> 00:30:51,266 [woman] This is an original? 584 00:30:51,349 --> 00:30:54,811 -[Mark] Yes, this is an original copy. -[woman] Oh, for heaven's sake. 585 00:30:55,895 --> 00:30:58,565 [Schiller] And, so, the next time he came to New York, 586 00:30:58,648 --> 00:31:00,775 I looked at it, and the paper felt right, 587 00:31:00,859 --> 00:31:01,985 printing looked right. 588 00:31:02,652 --> 00:31:04,445 I said, "It looks remarkable." 589 00:31:04,529 --> 00:31:05,738 In my mind, 590 00:31:05,822 --> 00:31:08,533 this is one of the most important, uh, 591 00:31:08,616 --> 00:31:10,827 historical documents of our country. 592 00:31:10,910 --> 00:31:15,248 One of the things that we ended up doing with The Oath 593 00:31:16,082 --> 00:31:20,753 was sending it out to California for a cyclotron test. 594 00:31:21,337 --> 00:31:23,381 Tests are being conducted on a document 595 00:31:23,464 --> 00:31:27,343 to see whether the ink on that piece of paper is 300 years old. 596 00:31:27,427 --> 00:31:29,929 …they bombarded it with high-velocity protons, 597 00:31:30,013 --> 00:31:32,724 which gives them an accurate analysis of paper and ink. 598 00:31:32,807 --> 00:31:34,434 [Schiller] I started to realize, 599 00:31:34,517 --> 00:31:37,186 this is going to be an expensive procedure. 600 00:31:38,271 --> 00:31:44,152 And I was expecting, uh, maybe a 5% or 10% commission. 601 00:31:44,903 --> 00:31:46,321 But Mark, uh, said, 602 00:31:46,404 --> 00:31:49,616 "Oh, no, if you could authenticate the document, 603 00:31:49,699 --> 00:31:51,951 we'll be 50% partners, 604 00:31:52,035 --> 00:31:52,911 each of us." 605 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,248 And I was staggered by his generosity. 606 00:31:57,332 --> 00:31:59,500 [man] Marketing The Oath with Hofmann, 607 00:31:59,584 --> 00:32:01,920 attorneys for the gallery, Schiller and Wapner… 608 00:32:02,003 --> 00:32:05,506 Mark and I agreed on the price of $1.5 million. 609 00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:08,259 But I had to caution everyone, 610 00:32:08,343 --> 00:32:10,970 it's only worth that if it turns out to be real. 611 00:32:11,679 --> 00:32:14,766 And we're far from that road. 612 00:32:14,849 --> 00:32:19,062 There's a lot of things that need to be checked and verified, 613 00:32:19,145 --> 00:32:21,606 and this was just the beginning. 614 00:32:25,485 --> 00:32:28,529 [car horns honking] 615 00:32:30,031 --> 00:32:34,577 [Flynn] In New York, Mark had become close enough with Justin Schiller 616 00:32:34,661 --> 00:32:37,830 that he always rolled out the red carpet for him. 617 00:32:38,498 --> 00:32:40,083 And Mark let loose in New York. 618 00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:45,004 He did things he would never, ever do at home. 619 00:32:45,588 --> 00:32:47,465 [whimsical music playing] 620 00:32:48,299 --> 00:32:52,136 [Schiller] Somebody else at the table was ordering an alcoholic drink, 621 00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:54,430 and then Mark could be coerced, 622 00:32:54,514 --> 00:32:58,935 which I realize is somewhat against the Mormon creed. 623 00:33:00,895 --> 00:33:04,399 [Flynn] But Mark had told him it was impossible for him to get drunk. 624 00:33:04,482 --> 00:33:06,734 No, that just… 625 00:33:06,818 --> 00:33:08,903 That is not humanly possible. 626 00:33:11,030 --> 00:33:14,575 "Okay, I'm gonna have a double vodka." He'd pound that thing down. 627 00:33:14,659 --> 00:33:17,203 "Double whiskey. Another one." 628 00:33:17,286 --> 00:33:19,998 [imitates gulping] And I want to mention, 629 00:33:20,081 --> 00:33:21,791 I did no drinking. 630 00:33:24,502 --> 00:33:25,378 Just watched. 631 00:33:26,087 --> 00:33:29,048 Anyway, within an hour, 632 00:33:30,049 --> 00:33:33,511 15, 16 doubles. 633 00:33:33,594 --> 00:33:34,887 Straight, neat. 634 00:33:35,555 --> 00:33:37,640 Justin Schiller said, "Say you're drunk." 635 00:33:37,724 --> 00:33:39,142 And he said, "No, I'm not." 636 00:33:39,726 --> 00:33:41,352 So he said, "Stand up." 637 00:33:41,978 --> 00:33:42,979 Mark did. 638 00:33:43,062 --> 00:33:45,064 He said, "Walk around this table." 639 00:33:45,148 --> 00:33:47,734 No wobble, no waver. 640 00:33:48,526 --> 00:33:49,360 Nothing. 641 00:33:50,778 --> 00:33:53,906 Now, the back end to that story is, 642 00:33:54,574 --> 00:33:56,159 we finally went up to our room. 643 00:33:57,118 --> 00:34:00,955 He went in the bathroom and just puked himself green. 644 00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:02,081 [chuckles] 645 00:34:03,499 --> 00:34:06,753 This is coming from a person who never drank. 646 00:34:06,836 --> 00:34:09,422 He grew up Mormon, so it's not normal. 647 00:34:10,298 --> 00:34:13,509 So Mark lived this lifestyle of kinda, 648 00:34:13,593 --> 00:34:16,179 "We'll do some business, flash some cash, 649 00:34:17,013 --> 00:34:22,018 and we'll drink our heads off, and then we'll sober up and go home." 650 00:34:22,685 --> 00:34:24,979 Back to the regular Mormon life. 651 00:34:30,193 --> 00:34:33,738 [birds chirping] 652 00:34:34,822 --> 00:34:36,699 [Mark] There's Michael and Daddy. 653 00:34:37,408 --> 00:34:38,242 See? 654 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,370 And Mommy over there, taking pictures of ya. 655 00:34:42,288 --> 00:34:44,373 [Dorie] He liked to film the family. 656 00:34:44,874 --> 00:34:48,169 "Yuppie" was the term at that point, when you had all the techy things 657 00:34:48,252 --> 00:34:49,462 and all the fancy stuff, 658 00:34:49,545 --> 00:34:53,257 and it was a big deal at that point, in the '80s, to have a camera. 659 00:34:53,341 --> 00:34:56,844 Oh, you took a few steps! You tried to, anyway. 660 00:34:56,928 --> 00:34:59,931 He would like to take people to dinner, go to expensive places 661 00:35:00,014 --> 00:35:02,475 -and buy expensive things. -Uh-oh. You dropped it. 662 00:35:02,558 --> 00:35:04,268 [Dorie] I think part of it was upbringing. 663 00:35:04,352 --> 00:35:07,271 It's LDS culture, you want to look good for the people around you. 664 00:35:08,189 --> 00:35:11,943 And there was something with him about status, 665 00:35:12,026 --> 00:35:15,071 and something about having things, having expensive things, 666 00:35:15,947 --> 00:35:17,824 that was important to him. 667 00:35:17,907 --> 00:35:19,742 [engine revving] 668 00:35:19,826 --> 00:35:22,829 [woman] In a 1982 interview with Sunstone magazine, 669 00:35:22,912 --> 00:35:25,790 Hofmann said he was in the business to make money. 670 00:35:26,332 --> 00:35:30,378 Mark had taken on a much higher living standard 671 00:35:30,461 --> 00:35:31,796 than he'd known before. 672 00:35:31,879 --> 00:35:36,008 He was flying back and forth to the East Coast all the time. 673 00:35:36,092 --> 00:35:38,052 He would promise a document to one guy. 674 00:35:38,136 --> 00:35:41,347 He'd get something sold, pass that money to the other guy. 675 00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:43,182 [man] Hofmann's finances are murky. 676 00:35:43,266 --> 00:35:47,436 Just this summer, he negotiated to buy a $600,000 house. 677 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:48,646 The deal fell through. 678 00:35:48,729 --> 00:35:50,356 [phone ringing] 679 00:35:50,439 --> 00:35:52,358 [Dorie] In early fall of 1985, 680 00:35:52,441 --> 00:35:55,611 there would be feast or famine, lots of money and then no money. 681 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,865 And I just remember a lot of phone calls. 682 00:35:58,948 --> 00:36:01,742 [male voice]  Please leave a message after the tone. 683 00:36:01,826 --> 00:36:04,579 Then I would tell Mark, "This person called. They're upset." 684 00:36:04,662 --> 00:36:06,038 "Oh, that's not a big deal. 685 00:36:06,122 --> 00:36:07,456 Oh, they're not a problem. 686 00:36:07,540 --> 00:36:10,168 -Oh, I'll take care of that." -[knocking softly] 687 00:36:10,793 --> 00:36:13,838 So, what I remember mostly is just the disconnect 688 00:36:13,921 --> 00:36:16,883 between what I was experiencing and what he was telling me. 689 00:36:16,966 --> 00:36:18,676 [knocking softly] 690 00:36:18,759 --> 00:36:20,261 [Mark] I'm gonna get you. 691 00:36:20,344 --> 00:36:22,722 I'm gonna get you. Get you, get you, get you. 692 00:36:24,140 --> 00:36:26,392 [George] Mark was in debt to a lot of people. 693 00:36:27,018 --> 00:36:30,313 But Mark Hofmann had a lot of money out there 694 00:36:30,396 --> 00:36:32,565 that was going to come to him. 695 00:36:32,648 --> 00:36:33,482 Big money. 696 00:36:33,566 --> 00:36:37,445 The Oath of a Freeman was reportedly going to be sold 697 00:36:37,528 --> 00:36:40,031 for $1.5 million. 698 00:36:41,157 --> 00:36:43,784 So Mark Hofmann had no motive for murder. 699 00:36:53,753 --> 00:36:55,630 During the investigation, 700 00:36:55,713 --> 00:37:01,344 there was a polygraph that was released by Mr. Hofmann's attorney, Ron Yengich. 701 00:37:01,427 --> 00:37:04,138 They don't have sufficient cause to charge my client 702 00:37:04,222 --> 00:37:06,140 with what they keep saying that he is, 703 00:37:06,224 --> 00:37:08,267 i.e. the prime suspect in the bombings. 704 00:37:08,351 --> 00:37:11,270 But they've got to show the public they're doing something. 705 00:37:11,354 --> 00:37:13,856 [George] Mark's polygraph was plus 14. 706 00:37:16,359 --> 00:37:20,404 That's the highest number I've ever seen in my career. 707 00:37:20,488 --> 00:37:23,950 [man] Hofmann's claims of innocence were documented for the first time 708 00:37:24,033 --> 00:37:25,785 when he passed a lie detector test. 709 00:37:25,868 --> 00:37:28,871 I was just so disappointed 710 00:37:28,955 --> 00:37:31,707 that nothing was coming out of the investigation. 711 00:37:31,791 --> 00:37:34,502 Based on my personal acquaintance with Mark 712 00:37:34,585 --> 00:37:37,588 and my experience in knowing him 713 00:37:37,672 --> 00:37:39,465 over the last two years, 714 00:37:40,049 --> 00:37:42,760 I-- I have a great deal of doubt 715 00:37:42,843 --> 00:37:46,514 that, uh, Mark is involved in any way at this point. 716 00:37:46,597 --> 00:37:49,016 We already had these people murdered, 717 00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:52,520 and yet, other people's lives were being destroyed, 718 00:37:53,104 --> 00:37:55,231 and reputations being destroyed. 719 00:37:58,776 --> 00:38:04,156 And so, I embraced the notion that somebody had tried to set Mark up. 720 00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:08,327 [Decker] I talked to a collector, one of Hofmann's competitors, 721 00:38:08,411 --> 00:38:11,622 and he said, "I'm not sure Mark did it, maybe it was an accident. 722 00:38:11,706 --> 00:38:14,208 Maybe there's somebody out to get document collectors." 723 00:38:14,292 --> 00:38:17,378 [man] Neighbors could not believe he's a suspect in the bombings. 724 00:38:17,461 --> 00:38:20,589 I can't comprehend that the Mark that I know 725 00:38:20,673 --> 00:38:23,050 is capable of doing the bombings. 726 00:38:23,134 --> 00:38:25,011 I feel like Mark has been crucified. 727 00:38:25,094 --> 00:38:26,512 I think he's a victim. 728 00:38:26,595 --> 00:38:29,181 So completely out of character with Mark Hofmann. 729 00:38:29,265 --> 00:38:31,600 [D'Elia] The general opinion of the public, 730 00:38:31,684 --> 00:38:33,185 what I got, was, 731 00:38:33,269 --> 00:38:34,603 "You got the wrong guy. 732 00:38:34,687 --> 00:38:37,606 You're lousy prosecutors. You don't know what you're doing. 733 00:38:37,690 --> 00:38:39,442 You're lousy investigators." 734 00:38:39,525 --> 00:38:41,569 The public has a right to know. 735 00:38:41,652 --> 00:38:43,446 You don't understand how effectively 736 00:38:43,529 --> 00:38:45,906 you can eliminate the rights of an accused. 737 00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:48,576 Motive is what we needed. 738 00:38:48,659 --> 00:38:50,661 Motive is what we did not have. 739 00:38:50,745 --> 00:38:54,832 [woman] Hofmann's family says he has never been in any kind of trouble before. 740 00:38:54,915 --> 00:38:56,375 Hofmann was an Eagle Scout… 741 00:38:56,459 --> 00:38:59,337 [George] We need to look somewhere else. 742 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:01,797 [William] I think it's come to the point 743 00:39:01,881 --> 00:39:04,717 where they've probably got to charge him with something, 744 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,719 whether they have something or not. 745 00:39:06,802 --> 00:39:09,055 Mark is definitely not a murderer. 746 00:39:09,138 --> 00:39:10,556 I know he's not a murderer. 747 00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:13,476 From the very beginning, 748 00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:16,979 our prayer and our hope was that… 749 00:39:18,814 --> 00:39:20,066 the truth would… 750 00:39:20,149 --> 00:39:21,067 Would be known. 751 00:39:22,068 --> 00:39:23,194 Whatever it was… 752 00:39:24,528 --> 00:39:26,280 that the truth would come out. 753 00:39:26,364 --> 00:39:28,032 And we-- That's still our prayer. 754 00:39:29,950 --> 00:39:31,744 [sad music playing] 755 00:39:34,914 --> 00:39:37,500 I got a call. This is about third or fourth party. 756 00:39:37,583 --> 00:39:40,086 Woman by the name of Becky Cutler Gunn, 757 00:39:40,169 --> 00:39:41,629 used to live by the Hofmanns. 758 00:39:41,712 --> 00:39:45,591 [George] I was in the war room seven days a week, 759 00:39:45,674 --> 00:39:47,968 sometimes up to 16 hours a day. 760 00:39:48,552 --> 00:39:51,097 I was not in a place that I wanted to be. 761 00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:52,890 Do we have any idea how much? 762 00:39:53,474 --> 00:39:58,646 But this is a type of case that you had to cross every "T" and dot every "I." 763 00:39:59,772 --> 00:40:03,526 And so we decided to go through the evidence one more time. 764 00:40:06,195 --> 00:40:09,031 At the search of Mark Hofmann's house, 765 00:40:09,115 --> 00:40:10,950 there were many, many items 766 00:40:11,033 --> 00:40:13,786 that, at the time, meant very little to us. 767 00:40:16,455 --> 00:40:19,917 We were looking to find anything out of the ordinary. 768 00:40:20,876 --> 00:40:23,087 And there was a piece of paper 769 00:40:23,170 --> 00:40:26,757 that had a business called Cocks and Clark Engraving 770 00:40:27,508 --> 00:40:29,343 and the name "Mike Hansen." 771 00:40:32,179 --> 00:40:35,641 I need to figure out who is Mike Hansen. 772 00:40:35,724 --> 00:40:36,934 And I traced it back… 773 00:40:37,017 --> 00:40:38,853 [now] But more importantly, 774 00:40:38,936 --> 00:40:42,064 how is this related to Mark Hofmann? 775 00:40:43,816 --> 00:40:46,485 So we dialed the number and said, 776 00:40:46,569 --> 00:40:48,154 "This is Mike Hansen, 777 00:40:48,237 --> 00:40:50,322 and I need a receipt for my taxes." 778 00:40:51,157 --> 00:40:51,991 And he said, 779 00:40:52,074 --> 00:40:54,076 "Sure, Mr. Hansen, I'll send it to you." 780 00:40:58,998 --> 00:41:00,332 We got the receipt. 781 00:41:00,416 --> 00:41:03,711 It was a plate for Deseret currency, 782 00:41:03,794 --> 00:41:05,546 made up at the engravers, 783 00:41:06,255 --> 00:41:09,550 which was something that Mark Hofmann was dealing in, 784 00:41:10,301 --> 00:41:13,888 and he could use it to actually make a forgery. 785 00:41:16,098 --> 00:41:20,186 That turned this investigation completely around 786 00:41:20,269 --> 00:41:23,105 and completely into a different direction 787 00:41:23,189 --> 00:41:24,482 than we were going. 788 00:41:24,565 --> 00:41:27,568 [D'Elia] Mike is gonna show us the Salamander letter does not fold. 789 00:41:27,651 --> 00:41:29,487 [George] Because if these documents, 790 00:41:29,570 --> 00:41:30,988 like the Salamander letter 791 00:41:31,071 --> 00:41:33,574 or The Oath of a Freeman, were forged, 792 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,494 that's an absolute motive 793 00:41:36,577 --> 00:41:39,371 for Mark Hofmann to commit murder. 794 00:41:39,455 --> 00:41:41,499 [suspenseful music playing] 795 00:41:42,708 --> 00:41:46,086 Investigators are now turning to the next big question, why? 796 00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:49,548 The possible answers are sending shock waves through the LDS Church. 797 00:41:49,632 --> 00:41:53,552 [man] Police chief Bud Willoughby said the Church has been "beaten up on." 798 00:41:53,636 --> 00:41:56,096 And as far as he's concerned, it's not fair. 799 00:41:56,180 --> 00:41:59,058 We have not discounted forgery involved. 800 00:41:59,141 --> 00:42:03,020 That could very well turn out  to be one of the possible motives… 801 00:42:03,103 --> 00:42:06,315 Police are looking at bombings to cover up an elaborate forgery ring 802 00:42:06,398 --> 00:42:07,483 as a possibility. 803 00:42:07,566 --> 00:42:10,277 Some of these documents, including the Salamander letter… 804 00:42:10,361 --> 00:42:11,946 In another twist to this story, 805 00:42:12,029 --> 00:42:15,950 the LDS Church today announced plans to let the FBI run authenticity tests 806 00:42:16,033 --> 00:42:19,203 on the Martin Harris or so-called Salamander letter. 807 00:42:19,286 --> 00:42:24,124 The Church took the Salamander letter, and they shipped it off to the FBI. 808 00:42:24,208 --> 00:42:25,668 They did make this request 809 00:42:25,751 --> 00:42:28,754 uh, so they could authenticate  the Martin Harris letter 810 00:42:28,837 --> 00:42:29,922 by their own methods, 811 00:42:30,005 --> 00:42:30,923 and we've agreed. 812 00:42:31,006 --> 00:42:33,717 Which was a very big deal because the Church, at first, 813 00:42:33,801 --> 00:42:36,011 didn't want to get to the bottom of it. 814 00:42:36,095 --> 00:42:40,015 [man] The FBI will attempt to determine if the letter is genuine or a fake. 815 00:42:40,099 --> 00:42:42,768 [George] We need to investigate these documents. 816 00:42:43,561 --> 00:42:44,770 And in order to do it, 817 00:42:44,853 --> 00:42:48,482 we went out and got  one of the best document examiners, 818 00:42:48,566 --> 00:42:50,442 probably throughout the world. 819 00:42:55,656 --> 00:42:59,451 The reason I got into forensic science is, I don't deal with people. 820 00:43:00,077 --> 00:43:03,664 And I disassociate myself as much as possible. 821 00:43:04,456 --> 00:43:06,625 The one thing that I've always done is, 822 00:43:06,709 --> 00:43:08,419 if an attorney hands me a document 823 00:43:08,502 --> 00:43:10,296 and tells me it's genuine, 824 00:43:10,379 --> 00:43:14,133 I go about the examination trying to prove that it's not. 825 00:43:14,758 --> 00:43:17,136 If somebody tells me a document is forged, 826 00:43:17,219 --> 00:43:20,556 I go about my examination trying to prove that it's genuine. 827 00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:22,391 Purchase a lot of these documents… 828 00:43:22,474 --> 00:43:25,102 [George] And so we invited George to meet with us. 829 00:43:25,185 --> 00:43:28,397 And he asked me, "What do you know about the documents?" 830 00:43:29,189 --> 00:43:30,566 And I said, 831 00:43:30,649 --> 00:43:33,736 "All of the experts are telling us 832 00:43:33,819 --> 00:43:35,237 that they're authentic." 833 00:43:35,779 --> 00:43:37,406 [Throckmorton] Out of curiosity, 834 00:43:37,489 --> 00:43:42,161 I began researching one of the people that authenticated the Salamander letter. 835 00:43:42,244 --> 00:43:44,079 I still regard it as valid, 836 00:43:44,163 --> 00:43:45,998 for the reason that, uh, 837 00:43:46,081 --> 00:43:48,292 to change my mind at this point 838 00:43:48,375 --> 00:43:49,710 would fly in the face 839 00:43:49,793 --> 00:43:53,464 of the careful work that was done to authenticate it. 840 00:43:54,089 --> 00:43:56,925 [Throckmorton] I realized he was not a document examiner. 841 00:43:57,009 --> 00:43:58,010 He was a historian, 842 00:43:58,844 --> 00:44:00,346 and that made me suspicious. 843 00:44:01,096 --> 00:44:03,432 Now, George Throckmorton is a good Mormon too. 844 00:44:03,515 --> 00:44:06,935 …and we need to get Throckmorton right on as soon as they get it… 845 00:44:07,019 --> 00:44:09,355 [D'Elia] From a credibility standpoint of view, 846 00:44:09,438 --> 00:44:12,524 George Throckmorton said, "I want somebody else in here, too." 847 00:44:13,525 --> 00:44:17,613 Well, one day I was sitting peacefully at my desk, uh, in Arizona, 848 00:44:17,696 --> 00:44:19,198 at the state crime laboratory, 849 00:44:19,281 --> 00:44:20,532 and the phone rang, 850 00:44:20,616 --> 00:44:22,201 and it was George Throckmorton. 851 00:44:22,951 --> 00:44:24,703 And he said, uh, 852 00:44:24,787 --> 00:44:26,705 "What religion are you, Bill?" 853 00:44:26,789 --> 00:44:28,874 That was a rather unusual intro. 854 00:44:29,458 --> 00:44:32,961 Uh, I said, "Well, I'm kind of a non-practicing Catholic." 855 00:44:33,045 --> 00:44:35,422 And George Throckmorton said, "Perfect." 856 00:44:38,008 --> 00:44:42,096 I knew how difficult it was to create a document today 857 00:44:42,179 --> 00:44:44,431 and make it look like it was 15 years old. 858 00:44:44,515 --> 00:44:45,808 In this scenario, 859 00:44:45,891 --> 00:44:47,851 George had said some of these documents 860 00:44:47,935 --> 00:44:51,480 were supposedly 150 years old, ten times that long. 861 00:44:52,523 --> 00:44:55,484 So I was certain that, in the case of the Salamander letter, 862 00:44:56,026 --> 00:44:57,319 there would be some flaw. 863 00:44:57,403 --> 00:44:58,862 There would be an anachronism 864 00:44:58,946 --> 00:45:00,197 or an anomaly, 865 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,117 or we would be able to prove that the writing was forged. 866 00:45:03,992 --> 00:45:07,371 [D'Elia] They sat down and really went to town with these documents. 867 00:45:07,454 --> 00:45:10,290 We went through how the documents' papers were cut, 868 00:45:10,374 --> 00:45:13,460 how the ink was, how letters folded. 869 00:45:14,086 --> 00:45:18,507 [William Flynn] If you can find that one anachronistic characteristic, 870 00:45:18,590 --> 00:45:22,553 something that says this paper was manufactured in 1890, 871 00:45:23,303 --> 00:45:25,597 but the date of the document was 1830, 872 00:45:26,557 --> 00:45:28,267 game, set, match. You have it. 873 00:45:28,350 --> 00:45:31,437 -They wanna talk to you. -I do nothing. I… 874 00:45:32,020 --> 00:45:35,816 When Bill first came, he thought he would be here a week. [chuckles] 875 00:45:35,899 --> 00:45:39,069 As it turns out, I had grossly underestimated 876 00:45:39,153 --> 00:45:41,613 the amount of time and effort it was going to take 877 00:45:41,697 --> 00:45:44,283 to show whether these documents were genuine or not. 878 00:45:45,659 --> 00:45:46,994 [ominous music playing] 879 00:45:51,623 --> 00:45:54,668 [man] This is KSL Television, Salt Lake City, Utah. 880 00:45:54,752 --> 00:45:57,921 The Oath of a Freeman, purported to be the first document 881 00:45:58,005 --> 00:45:59,256 printed in early America. 882 00:45:59,923 --> 00:46:03,927 Experts tested The Oath on a space-age machine called a cyclotron at the… 883 00:46:04,011 --> 00:46:07,681 [Schiller] We had The Oath of a Freeman tested for the paper, 884 00:46:07,765 --> 00:46:11,769 studied by nuclear examination, 885 00:46:11,852 --> 00:46:14,563 and, uh, each of the exams, 886 00:46:14,646 --> 00:46:17,065 it came up with the verification 887 00:46:17,149 --> 00:46:18,692 that the document was correct. 888 00:46:18,776 --> 00:46:23,197 [reporter] The Oath of a Freeman appears to have passed a key test of authenticity. 889 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,616 Mark Hofmann shares ownership of the document, 890 00:46:25,699 --> 00:46:27,242 along with a New York dealer… 891 00:46:27,326 --> 00:46:29,787 [Schiller] It was all a very exciting experience, 892 00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:32,039 and we're now a 50% owner. 893 00:46:33,165 --> 00:46:36,418 And the sale of The Oath of a Freeman was pending. 894 00:46:36,502 --> 00:46:37,920 [helicopter blades whirring] 895 00:46:38,003 --> 00:46:40,672 [D'Elia] They were going to take The Oath of a Freeman 896 00:46:40,756 --> 00:46:43,550 and exhibit it at the base of the Statue of Liberty. 897 00:46:43,634 --> 00:46:45,886 So this was trouble, obviously. 898 00:46:45,969 --> 00:46:49,306 'Cause it's just one more piece of evidence 899 00:46:49,389 --> 00:46:51,183 that's just not going our way. 900 00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:55,687 Meanwhile, there was a call from the FBI. 901 00:46:56,814 --> 00:46:59,066 [Throckmorton] One of the investigators says, 902 00:46:59,149 --> 00:47:02,653 "We got the report back from the FBI on the Salamander letter. 903 00:47:04,488 --> 00:47:05,405 It's genuine." 904 00:47:05,989 --> 00:47:09,618 [man] The FBI has reportedly concluded there is no reason to believe 905 00:47:09,701 --> 00:47:11,954 that the Salamander letter is a phony. 906 00:47:14,039 --> 00:47:18,627 [George] The FBI Laboratory had authenticated the Salamander letter. 907 00:47:20,629 --> 00:47:22,881 We all had a horrible reaction to it. 908 00:47:22,965 --> 00:47:25,592 I mean, it ruined Christmas for us. 909 00:47:26,593 --> 00:47:28,136 It didn't-- [sputters] 910 00:47:28,220 --> 00:47:30,389 In-In the face of it, we just went on. 911 00:47:30,472 --> 00:47:34,726 It was just one more piece of shit that we have to deal with and… 912 00:47:35,811 --> 00:47:36,728 um… 913 00:47:38,021 --> 00:47:40,816 [William Flynn] There came a time in the examination 914 00:47:40,899 --> 00:47:43,151 where I felt it wasn't going to work. 915 00:47:44,027 --> 00:47:47,239 Where we just weren't going to be able to get 916 00:47:47,322 --> 00:47:51,785 that hard evidence that we would need to testify to. 917 00:47:51,869 --> 00:47:53,662 [ominous music playing] 918 00:47:58,041 --> 00:47:59,418 [Mark] Let's watch some TV. 919 00:48:00,043 --> 00:48:01,920 [Dorie] He liked the Dallas show. 920 00:48:02,004 --> 00:48:05,257 I think Mark used the character JR in Dallas as a role model. 921 00:48:05,340 --> 00:48:06,758 I just want you to know, JR, 922 00:48:07,384 --> 00:48:08,468 I'm gonna nail you. 923 00:48:09,177 --> 00:48:10,470 Haven't you noticed? 924 00:48:10,554 --> 00:48:12,222 You gotta be a man to play in my league. 925 00:48:12,306 --> 00:48:13,974 [Dorie] How bold he was in his actions, 926 00:48:14,057 --> 00:48:17,895 and how he would look good on the outside, but underneath what he would do to people. 927 00:48:17,978 --> 00:48:20,105 I knew there was a reason I liked that boy. 928 00:48:20,731 --> 00:48:25,444 He's just about the best liar I ever met. With the exception of myself, of course. 929 00:48:26,278 --> 00:48:30,824 The police theory that Hofmann was forging documents comes as a real surprise 930 00:48:30,908 --> 00:48:32,743 to the community of scholars and collectors 931 00:48:32,826 --> 00:48:34,578 who work with Mark Hofmann… 932 00:48:34,703 --> 00:48:36,788 [Dorie] When the evening news would come, 933 00:48:36,872 --> 00:48:39,625 he absolutely loved… 934 00:48:39,708 --> 00:48:40,542 Loved it. 935 00:48:41,043 --> 00:48:42,920 [man 1] Police searched his car and home. 936 00:48:43,003 --> 00:48:44,379 They found old paper and ink 937 00:48:44,463 --> 00:48:46,757 that could've been used in forging documents. 938 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,550 Hofmann is the prime suspect. 939 00:48:48,634 --> 00:48:51,261 [Mark] He says, "I recognize one person there on TV." 940 00:48:51,845 --> 00:48:54,598 [Dorie] They would be talking about him being a suspect, 941 00:48:54,681 --> 00:48:58,268 about what was happening with him in the investigation, in the news. 942 00:48:58,894 --> 00:48:59,728 He just… 943 00:48:59,811 --> 00:49:01,396 He reveled in that. 944 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:02,314 Don't cry. 945 00:49:02,397 --> 00:49:06,068 [man 2] The FBI has reportedly concluded there is no reason to believe 946 00:49:06,151 --> 00:49:08,070 that the Salamander letter is a phony. 947 00:49:08,153 --> 00:49:11,490 The fact they have not filed today anything related to the bombings 948 00:49:11,573 --> 00:49:13,075 means they've got a weak case. 949 00:49:13,158 --> 00:49:15,661 -Speculation has centered around motives. -[crying] 950 00:49:15,744 --> 00:49:18,455 Why would Hofmann kill business associates and friends? 951 00:49:18,538 --> 00:49:20,040 That's still unknown. 952 00:49:24,586 --> 00:49:25,629 [man] I think, uh… 953 00:49:25,712 --> 00:49:28,215 I don't know what it is they wanna do with the ink. 954 00:49:28,298 --> 00:49:29,549 [man] I'm not sure what-- 955 00:49:29,633 --> 00:49:34,304 This is printing ink, you understand? This is carbon-based ink. 956 00:49:34,388 --> 00:49:37,432 You don't wanna mess with the FBI. 957 00:49:37,516 --> 00:49:42,521 And yet, I disagreed with them on the Salamander letter. 958 00:49:42,604 --> 00:49:44,690 In fact, I was almost a little bit angry. 959 00:49:44,773 --> 00:49:48,860 After examining it under various degrees of magnification, 960 00:49:49,653 --> 00:49:51,488 under various lighting sources, 961 00:49:51,571 --> 00:49:54,574 from ultraviolet spectrum to the infrared spectrum, 962 00:49:54,658 --> 00:49:56,159 every way possible, 963 00:49:56,994 --> 00:50:01,248 I was feeling quite comfortable that something was wrong, 964 00:50:01,915 --> 00:50:03,333 and they should've found it. 965 00:50:03,792 --> 00:50:05,711 [suspenseful music playing] 966 00:50:05,794 --> 00:50:07,504 [George] George Throckmorton said, 967 00:50:07,587 --> 00:50:12,009 "I'm shocked about how shallow their analysis has gone. 968 00:50:12,092 --> 00:50:13,260 We need to go further." 969 00:50:18,056 --> 00:50:21,518 After 110 hours of examination on the documents, 970 00:50:22,769 --> 00:50:28,525 I started noticing that some of the inks had a cracking effect on the ink itself. 971 00:50:29,860 --> 00:50:31,445 And some of them did not. 972 00:50:31,528 --> 00:50:32,946 And I didn't know why. 973 00:50:38,827 --> 00:50:42,122 In order to test whether what we were seeing was actually 974 00:50:42,205 --> 00:50:44,166 a real phenomenon or not, 975 00:50:44,249 --> 00:50:47,753 Mr. Throckmorton and I began to hand one another documents 976 00:50:47,836 --> 00:50:49,254 to look at microscopically. 977 00:50:50,672 --> 00:50:54,009 [Throckmorton] And we had them separated into two groups. 978 00:50:54,092 --> 00:50:57,304 One of which we know Hofmann had handled, 979 00:50:57,387 --> 00:51:01,016 and the others were documents we knew had been in the Church 980 00:51:01,099 --> 00:51:03,643 long before Mark Hofmann was even born. 981 00:51:04,311 --> 00:51:07,189 There would either be evidence of the ink cracking or not. 982 00:51:07,272 --> 00:51:08,190 And depending, 983 00:51:08,273 --> 00:51:10,734 he would say "not Hofmann," or "Hofmann." 984 00:51:12,861 --> 00:51:15,363 [Throckmorton] And we started to see this pattern. 985 00:51:16,156 --> 00:51:20,327 Every single document that Hofmann had handled had that cracked ink. 986 00:51:20,410 --> 00:51:22,829 [ominous music playing] 987 00:51:24,664 --> 00:51:28,335 [George] George and Bill explained to us, 988 00:51:28,418 --> 00:51:30,587 "We're looking at ink that's cracked." 989 00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:34,299 That led to other questions. 990 00:51:34,382 --> 00:51:38,887 We had that receipt to Cocks and Clark Engraving, 991 00:51:38,970 --> 00:51:41,181 in the name of Mike Hansen, 992 00:51:41,264 --> 00:51:43,850 that had been seized at Mark Hofmann's house. 993 00:51:45,268 --> 00:51:47,521 If Mark Hofmann was a forger, 994 00:51:48,271 --> 00:51:50,649 where else could he have made printing plates? 995 00:51:50,732 --> 00:51:53,193 -What you got on The Oath… -Paper's probably okay. 996 00:51:53,276 --> 00:51:55,237 …that's gonna be the kicker we can… 997 00:51:55,320 --> 00:52:00,158 And there were two places, Utah Engraving and DeBouzek Printing. 998 00:52:01,368 --> 00:52:04,079 Went to DeBouzek with The Oath of a Freeman. 999 00:52:04,955 --> 00:52:08,291 The printer picked it up, looked at it, and he said, 1000 00:52:08,375 --> 00:52:14,339 "A person by the name of Mike Hansen asked to have this plate made." 1001 00:52:14,422 --> 00:52:16,675 [man] Printing on this portion of the press, 1002 00:52:16,758 --> 00:52:20,178 which is called the platen, and this is where the paper will be put… 1003 00:52:20,262 --> 00:52:23,348 And he said, "Mr. Hansen paid us in cash. 1004 00:52:23,431 --> 00:52:25,433 He was a couple of bucks short. 1005 00:52:25,517 --> 00:52:30,272 He had to complete the transaction with a personal check." 1006 00:52:31,064 --> 00:52:34,776 That personal check was in Mark Hofmann's name. 1007 00:52:36,236 --> 00:52:38,905 [D'Elia] Oh, Markie Poo, if you could only see me now. 1008 00:52:41,032 --> 00:52:42,242 [man 1] Moment of truth. 1009 00:52:42,909 --> 00:52:44,744 -[man 2] Looks great! -[man 3] Hey! 1010 00:52:44,828 --> 00:52:46,913 -[man 1] That looks good. -[men applaud] 1011 00:52:46,997 --> 00:52:48,748 [D'Elia] That was a big discovery. 1012 00:52:48,832 --> 00:52:50,292 This is an absolute forgery. 1013 00:52:50,375 --> 00:52:52,210 I think it's time for a beer. 1014 00:52:52,294 --> 00:52:54,880 We had come full circle. 1015 00:52:54,963 --> 00:52:58,049 There was cracking in the ink. 1016 00:52:58,133 --> 00:53:03,013 And the check proved that Mark Hofmann had used the name Mike Hansen. 1017 00:53:03,930 --> 00:53:07,559 And now we found what, to us, was the Holy Grail. 1018 00:53:07,642 --> 00:53:09,477 The Oath of a Freeman… 1019 00:53:09,561 --> 00:53:10,437 [clunks] 1020 00:53:11,771 --> 00:53:15,317 …the one document that Mark Hofmann could use 1021 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,195 to buy him out of this entire mess 1022 00:53:18,278 --> 00:53:20,447 he had gotten himself into, 1023 00:53:20,530 --> 00:53:22,741 -was now a forgery. -[tense music plays] 1024 00:53:22,824 --> 00:53:25,243 [woman] Prosecutors say the killer is Mark Hofmann. 1025 00:53:25,327 --> 00:53:27,162 He's been accused of massive frauds. 1026 00:53:27,245 --> 00:53:30,957 But until today, we did not know just how much fraud there's been. 1027 00:53:31,041 --> 00:53:35,462 Prosecutors say he swindled associates out of more than half a million dollars. 1028 00:53:35,545 --> 00:53:39,090 I looked him in the eye, and he indicated he hadn't done the bombings. 1029 00:53:39,799 --> 00:53:42,177 It hits you hard, really hard. 1030 00:53:42,928 --> 00:53:45,138 He's been lying to you. 1031 00:53:46,056 --> 00:53:48,099 [Metcalfe] I remember hearing Mark say, 1032 00:53:48,808 --> 00:53:52,187 "I hope they catch the bastards that did this." 1033 00:53:52,771 --> 00:53:54,940 And it's like, little did I realize 1034 00:53:55,023 --> 00:53:58,318 I was sitting next to the bastard that did this. 1035 00:53:58,401 --> 00:54:01,404 [man 1] He was juggling two giant deals at the same time, 1036 00:54:01,488 --> 00:54:03,114 for the so-called Oath of a Freeman… 1037 00:54:03,198 --> 00:54:04,908 [man 2] The so-called McLellin Collection… 1038 00:54:04,991 --> 00:54:06,868 Police say the papers don't exist. 1039 00:54:06,952 --> 00:54:11,081 No one can say that they've ever seen the McLellin papers. 1040 00:54:11,164 --> 00:54:15,210 The Bureau is charging Mr. Hofmann in regards to the bombings. 1041 00:54:16,962 --> 00:54:18,213 [George] At that point, 1042 00:54:18,296 --> 00:54:22,842 this whole house of cards that Mark Hofmann had built 1043 00:54:23,802 --> 00:54:26,888 began to just completely fall apart. 1044 00:54:29,808 --> 00:54:31,810 [up-tempo sinister music playing] 85961

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