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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:26,626 --> 00:00:28,501 I love being alive. 2 00:00:28,626 --> 00:00:31,501 I wake up every morning very grateful that I'm alive. 3 00:00:31,626 --> 00:00:36,376 It's more than enjoyment. I'm, uh... 4 00:00:36,501 --> 00:00:38,875 I'm very happy to be alive. 5 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,000 ♪ 6 00:00:44,834 --> 00:00:49,501 I began writing when I was 6 or 7 or 8, stories and poems 7 00:00:49,626 --> 00:00:52,000 and plays. 8 00:00:52,125 --> 00:00:56,501 It was...yes, it was like enlisting in an army of saints 9 00:00:56,626 --> 00:01:00,000 or something of that sort--it sounds very foolish--but I 10 00:01:00,125 --> 00:01:02,875 didn't feel that I was expressing myself. 11 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,501 I felt that I was, well, 12 00:01:05,626 --> 00:01:12,542 taking part in a noble activity. 13 00:01:12,667 --> 00:01:17,709 My mother was very much someone who was interested in everything. 14 00:01:17,834 --> 00:01:25,874 Intellectual and cultural and aesthetic and sensual experience. 15 00:01:25,999 --> 00:01:31,292 When I turned 40, I was in China. When I turned 50, I was in France. 16 00:01:31,417 --> 00:01:33,875 When I turned 60, I was in Sarajevo and the bombs 17 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,250 were falling. 18 00:01:38,999 --> 00:01:42,999 Being 70 sounds very awesome. 19 00:01:45,626 --> 00:01:52,501 Despite my two bouts of cancer, I feel fine. 20 00:01:52,626 --> 00:01:57,000 I feel as if a lot of things are still ahead. 21 00:01:57,125 --> 00:02:01,000 ♪ 22 00:02:04,999 --> 00:02:07,667 WOMAN: ...one of the country's most controversial writers and social critics... 23 00:02:07,792 --> 00:02:09,334 MAN: She was the relentless campaigner 24 00:02:09,459 --> 00:02:11,875 for human rights and against war... 25 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,875 MAN: ...the most intelligent woman in America... 26 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,751 MAN: ...critic, activist, playwright, essayist... 27 00:02:15,876 --> 00:02:17,874 she wrote 17 books and won major awards, 28 00:02:17,999 --> 00:02:19,875 including the National Book Award... 29 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,875 WOMAN: Susan Sontag was 71 years old. 30 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,000 ♪ 31 00:02:59,626 --> 00:03:01,793 SONTAG: For the last hundred years in our society, 32 00:03:01,918 --> 00:03:03,875 the most interesting writers have mostly been critics 33 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,501 of the society. 34 00:03:06,626 --> 00:03:09,000 The writer very often has taken some kind 35 00:03:09,125 --> 00:03:12,000 of adversary position. 36 00:03:12,125 --> 00:03:16,084 I like that adversary position. 37 00:03:16,209 --> 00:03:18,417 I like the position of being able to express 38 00:03:18,542 --> 00:03:20,292 dissenting opinions. 39 00:03:20,417 --> 00:03:24,626 ♪ 40 00:03:30,999 --> 00:03:33,917 WOMAN: Shortly after September 11th, Susan Sontag became one 41 00:03:34,042 --> 00:03:36,376 of the first prominent Americans to publicly state 42 00:03:36,501 --> 00:03:40,501 the attack was carried out in response to US foreign policy. 43 00:03:40,626 --> 00:03:42,501 [Sirens] 44 00:03:42,626 --> 00:03:48,126 Sontag writes in the current issue of the "New Yorker" magazine... 45 00:04:03,626 --> 00:04:07,917 SONTAG: This sort of build-up of moralistic words to describe 46 00:04:08,042 --> 00:04:12,501 this horrendous atrocity was not helping us to understand 47 00:04:12,626 --> 00:04:14,875 and reach an intelligent response, political 48 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,875 and military, which I'm absolutely in favor of. 49 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,875 I'm not a pacifist. 50 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,874 There's so many opinions around. 51 00:04:20,999 --> 00:04:24,875 And I guess I'm just a very straight First Amendment-- 52 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,292 strict First Amendment person. 53 00:04:26,417 --> 00:04:27,874 I want to defend Ann Coulter. 54 00:04:27,999 --> 00:04:29,501 Well, you're also a very offensive writer. 55 00:04:29,626 --> 00:04:33,501 You are part of the "Blame America First" crowd. 56 00:04:33,626 --> 00:04:35,875 You said that we were to blame for our foreign policy-- 57 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,501 SONTAG: I never said anything of the kind. 58 00:04:37,626 --> 00:04:38,958 Let me--let me just-- 59 00:04:39,083 --> 00:04:40,875 I'm just as patriotic and against the terrorists as you are. 60 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,875 Well, your version of patriotism is 61 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,875 blame America, blame America. 62 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,501 SONTAG: Oh, dear. 63 00:04:47,626 --> 00:04:50,874 We have a long tradition of debate. 64 00:04:50,999 --> 00:04:53,501 I'm interested in people having a historical 65 00:04:53,626 --> 00:04:57,376 understanding of where we are so that we can better defend 66 00:04:57,501 --> 00:04:59,874 ourselves and stop international terrorism. 67 00:04:59,999 --> 00:05:02,042 GAZIANO: And let's get into your position... 68 00:05:02,167 --> 00:05:06,000 ♪ 69 00:05:08,626 --> 00:05:09,874 WOMAN AS SONTAG: It is difficult 70 00:05:09,999 --> 00:05:13,626 for the citizens of America, having never seen their country 71 00:05:13,751 --> 00:05:17,376 devastated by war to really understand 72 00:05:17,501 --> 00:05:21,501 and appreciate the full horrors of war. 73 00:05:21,626 --> 00:05:24,542 The battle for peace will never be won 74 00:05:24,667 --> 00:05:29,501 by calling anyone whom we don't like a Communist. 75 00:05:29,626 --> 00:05:33,584 If we do this, we shall someday realize that, 76 00:05:33,709 --> 00:05:37,667 in the effort to preserve our democratic way of life, 77 00:05:37,792 --> 00:05:41,874 we have thrown away its noblest feature--the right 78 00:05:41,999 --> 00:05:46,000 of every person to express his own opinion. 79 00:05:49,626 --> 00:05:53,626 ♪ 80 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:12,083 MAN: Everyone who knew us knew I was totally in love with her. 81 00:06:13,375 --> 00:06:17,000 We never dated but we were always together. 82 00:06:19,751 --> 00:06:22,874 She gave me the first academic lecture of my life. 83 00:06:22,999 --> 00:06:30,501 She sat me down on her bed and ran through the argument 84 00:06:30,626 --> 00:06:32,376 of the "Critique of Pure Reason," 85 00:06:32,501 --> 00:06:34,875 Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason." 86 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:41,793 She must have been 15. 87 00:06:41,918 --> 00:06:45,501 WOMAN AS SONTAG: In Los Angeles, I tracked down a real bookstore, 88 00:06:45,626 --> 00:06:49,292 the first of my bookstore-besotted life: 89 00:06:49,417 --> 00:06:52,667 The Pickwick on Hollywood Boulevard, 90 00:06:52,792 --> 00:06:55,875 where I went every few days after school, buying when I 91 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,501 could, stealing when I dared. 92 00:07:00,626 --> 00:07:01,875 I had to acquire them, 93 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,874 see them in rows along the wall of my tiny bedroom. 94 00:07:06,999 --> 00:07:12,501 My household deities, my spaceships. 95 00:07:12,626 --> 00:07:16,626 ♪ 96 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,875 HAIDU: In '48, I graduated from high school. 97 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,584 Sue had another semester of high school to do... 98 00:07:27,709 --> 00:07:29,875 and in the second semester, she went up to Berkeley. 99 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,501 [Bell tolls] 100 00:07:31,626 --> 00:07:34,501 SONTAG: And the very first day, I was standing on line 101 00:07:34,626 --> 00:07:38,874 registering for a class, and I heard somebody 102 00:07:38,999 --> 00:07:41,584 ahead of me say, "Proust." 103 00:07:41,709 --> 00:07:45,501 And I thought, "Oh, my God. It's pronounced Proost." 104 00:07:45,626 --> 00:07:47,958 I thought it was "Prowst." Ha ha! 105 00:07:48,083 --> 00:07:49,709 And then I thought, "I'm home. 106 00:07:49,834 --> 00:07:51,875 "I've reached a place where somebody else has read 107 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,875 the books that I have read." 108 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:56,501 It was freedom. 109 00:07:56,626 --> 00:07:58,167 It was like escape. 110 00:07:58,292 --> 00:08:02,626 ♪ 111 00:08:06,626 --> 00:08:08,501 [Trolley bell clangs] 112 00:08:08,626 --> 00:08:10,334 WOMAN: Drag. 113 00:08:10,459 --> 00:08:11,958 Go In Drag. 114 00:08:12,083 --> 00:08:14,958 A Drag Party. 115 00:08:15,083 --> 00:08:16,292 Straight. 116 00:08:16,417 --> 00:08:17,584 East. 117 00:08:17,709 --> 00:08:18,874 Jam. 118 00:08:18,999 --> 00:08:20,874 West. 119 00:08:20,999 --> 00:08:23,000 Act Swishy. 120 00:08:23,125 --> 00:08:25,375 I'm Swished tonight. 121 00:08:27,751 --> 00:08:33,667 This is a list of slang that Susan learned when I took her 122 00:08:33,792 --> 00:08:37,501 to San Francisco to learn about the world 123 00:08:37,626 --> 00:08:39,292 of gay people. 124 00:08:39,417 --> 00:08:42,501 [Bells chiming] 125 00:08:42,626 --> 00:08:45,751 This is '48, and I'm going to Berkeley and I'm working 126 00:08:45,876 --> 00:08:48,917 at the Campus Text Book Exchange, which was staffed 127 00:08:49,042 --> 00:08:53,042 entirely by gay boys and me. 128 00:08:53,167 --> 00:08:57,459 And then Susan came in the door one day to buy a book. 129 00:08:57,584 --> 00:09:01,376 She was absolutely overwhelmingly gorgeous. 130 00:09:01,501 --> 00:09:05,874 She walked in, and he said to me, "Go get her." Ha ha! 131 00:09:05,999 --> 00:09:11,167 So I went. 132 00:09:11,292 --> 00:09:12,875 [Horns honking] 133 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:18,501 WOMAN AS SONTAG: First we went to the 299, then to 12 Adler where we met Bruce 134 00:09:18,626 --> 00:09:22,667 and went with him to a homosexual bar. 135 00:09:22,792 --> 00:09:25,501 The singer was a very tall and beautiful blonde 136 00:09:25,626 --> 00:09:27,626 in a strapless evening gown. 137 00:09:27,751 --> 00:09:30,501 [Wolf whistling] 138 00:09:30,626 --> 00:09:35,209 I wondered about her remarkably powerful voice. 139 00:09:35,334 --> 00:09:37,917 Harriet had to tell me she was a man. 140 00:09:38,042 --> 00:09:42,000 ♪ 141 00:09:44,334 --> 00:09:48,542 ZWERLING: And then I took her to Peggy's Bar, and that was the 142 00:09:48,667 --> 00:09:54,501 night we both got very drunk and we started making out together, and she was wild. 143 00:09:54,626 --> 00:09:56,875 I mean, she was so... 144 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,667 she was so naive and so innocent. 145 00:09:59,792 --> 00:10:01,667 She'd never had any kind of sex. 146 00:10:01,792 --> 00:10:04,501 She probably necked with boys in high school, but I mean it 147 00:10:04,626 --> 00:10:07,334 was not anything real, you know, 148 00:10:07,459 --> 00:10:14,417 because men left her cold. 149 00:10:14,542 --> 00:10:17,292 WOMAN AS SONTAG: I know the truth now. 150 00:10:17,417 --> 00:10:21,125 I know how good and right it is to love. 151 00:10:21,250 --> 00:10:25,333 I have in some part been given permission to live. 152 00:10:27,626 --> 00:10:31,000 Everything begins from now. 153 00:10:31,125 --> 00:10:32,875 I am reborn. 154 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,000 ♪ 155 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,751 ZWERLING: And then I left. 156 00:10:44,876 --> 00:10:46,874 I went to Paris. 157 00:10:46,999 --> 00:10:49,249 Susan went to Chicago. 158 00:10:51,417 --> 00:10:58,999 HAIDU: How Sue became Susan Sontag led through Philip Rieff. 159 00:11:00,375 --> 00:11:03,626 I was assigned to Philip Rieff's social science class 160 00:11:03,751 --> 00:11:06,417 at the University of Chicago. 161 00:11:06,542 --> 00:11:10,209 After, I think, 2 or 3 weeks, I called her and said, 162 00:11:10,334 --> 00:11:12,667 "You've got to go hear this guy. 163 00:11:12,792 --> 00:11:18,334 He's a brilliant lecturer who manages to put together Freud and Marx." 164 00:11:18,459 --> 00:11:22,874 So she went, and apparently 10 days later they were engaged. 165 00:11:22,999 --> 00:11:24,875 Um, that was not my recommendation. 166 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,000 ♪ 167 00:11:33,501 --> 00:11:37,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: At 17, I met a thin, heavy-thighed balding man who 168 00:11:37,626 --> 00:11:42,125 talked and talked, snobbishly, bookishly, and called 169 00:11:42,250 --> 00:11:44,500 me "Sweet." 170 00:11:45,584 --> 00:11:49,000 After a few days, I married him. 171 00:11:52,542 --> 00:11:54,792 We talked for 7 years. 172 00:12:00,417 --> 00:12:02,874 WOMAN: It was a very small wedding. 173 00:12:02,999 --> 00:12:07,249 We went afterwards to Bob's Big Boy for a hamburger. 174 00:12:09,501 --> 00:12:11,875 She and I were giggling a little. 175 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,292 That I remember, that we just each caught the other's eye 176 00:12:16,417 --> 00:12:17,834 and that was it. 177 00:12:17,959 --> 00:12:21,626 ♪ 178 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,501 When I visited them in Cambridge, they seemed totally 179 00:12:30,626 --> 00:12:33,793 close, inseparable. 180 00:12:33,918 --> 00:12:39,501 How much of it was intellectual, and how much was not? 181 00:12:39,626 --> 00:12:41,751 I mean, there had to have been, 182 00:12:41,876 --> 00:12:45,874 at some point, some physical attraction somewhere, 183 00:12:45,999 --> 00:12:48,751 and they certainly acted like there was. 184 00:12:48,876 --> 00:12:56,874 They were just really kind of like they were one person. 185 00:12:56,999 --> 00:12:59,958 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: I had a difficult birth. 186 00:13:00,083 --> 00:13:02,584 David was big. 187 00:13:02,709 --> 00:13:05,501 A lot of pain. 188 00:13:05,626 --> 00:13:07,875 I wanted to be knocked out, 189 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,875 not to know anything. 190 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,000 ♪ 191 00:13:36,501 --> 00:13:38,751 [Woman, as Sontag] 192 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,083 ♪ 193 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,042 If only I get the fellowship to Oxford, then at least I'll 194 00:14:09,167 --> 00:14:13,501 know if I'm anything outside the domestic stage, 195 00:14:13,626 --> 00:14:15,876 The feathered nest. 196 00:14:19,334 --> 00:14:24,501 I think for a while it was just really fine, but people 197 00:14:24,626 --> 00:14:27,834 change in their marriages, and obviously she did. 198 00:14:27,959 --> 00:14:32,626 He did not. 199 00:14:32,751 --> 00:14:38,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: In marriage, I have suffered a certain loss of personality. 200 00:14:38,626 --> 00:14:44,501 At first the loss was pleasant, easy; now it aches 201 00:14:44,626 --> 00:14:49,417 and stirs up my general disposition to be malcontented 202 00:14:49,542 --> 00:14:51,875 with a new fierceness. 203 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,000 ♪ 204 00:14:59,876 --> 00:15:03,501 Just got the fellowship. 205 00:15:03,626 --> 00:15:05,875 Study philosophy in Oxford. 206 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,000 ♪ 207 00:15:13,792 --> 00:15:17,501 WOMAN: She had made arrangements for her husband's parents to take 208 00:15:17,626 --> 00:15:19,250 care of the child. 209 00:15:19,375 --> 00:15:23,167 But to today's parents, it's just unthinkable. 210 00:15:23,292 --> 00:15:26,667 Because she was so young when she had her child, she hadn't 211 00:15:26,792 --> 00:15:30,209 been able to live out her own adolescence. 212 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,501 I think she just wanted to do what she wanted to do. 213 00:15:35,626 --> 00:15:39,875 And you know, it's...that's really all there is to it. 214 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,000 ♪ 215 00:15:54,626 --> 00:15:56,876 [Woman, as Sontag] 216 00:16:01,709 --> 00:16:04,874 Je l'aime beaucoup is more than je l'aime bien 217 00:16:04,999 --> 00:16:07,249 but less than je l'aime. 218 00:16:09,626 --> 00:16:12,667 I like Paris--stronger, more reserved. 219 00:16:12,792 --> 00:16:14,875 J'aime Paris. 220 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,250 I like Paris. 221 00:16:18,999 --> 00:16:24,542 ZWERLING: The end of '57, she came to Paris at Christmas from Oxford 222 00:16:24,667 --> 00:16:27,334 and she stayed, 223 00:16:27,459 --> 00:16:32,874 and we started living together in a hotel. 224 00:16:32,999 --> 00:16:37,584 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: Harriet is beautiful, relaxed, affectionate. 225 00:16:37,709 --> 00:16:43,875 I, dizzy with passion and need for her, am happy. 226 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:50,501 Good God, I am happy! 227 00:16:50,626 --> 00:16:55,376 ZWERLING: We gave a big party, and the night before the big party, 228 00:16:55,501 --> 00:16:59,874 we had a lesbian couple over to visit, but we drank a lot 229 00:16:59,999 --> 00:17:03,501 and we smoked a lot of grass and things started getting 230 00:17:03,626 --> 00:17:09,709 a little sexy, and Susan got into it a little too much, 231 00:17:09,834 --> 00:17:13,834 and I got very jealous and punched her in the face. 232 00:17:13,959 --> 00:17:19,334 The next day was our big party with all the American ex-pats, 233 00:17:19,459 --> 00:17:20,874 the Beats. 234 00:17:20,999 --> 00:17:24,501 Ginsberg and Corso and all those people were coming. 235 00:17:24,626 --> 00:17:27,167 And Ginsberg came over to me at one point. 236 00:17:27,292 --> 00:17:30,667 Susan had this big black-and-blue mark on her jaw. 237 00:17:30,792 --> 00:17:33,501 And he said to me, "Why'd you hit her? 238 00:17:33,626 --> 00:17:35,874 She's younger and prettier than you." 239 00:17:35,999 --> 00:17:38,874 And I said, "That's why." Ha! So... 240 00:17:38,999 --> 00:17:42,542 I was, at that time, the assistant, 241 00:17:42,667 --> 00:17:45,874 to a director named Pierre Kast. 242 00:17:45,999 --> 00:17:49,501 Susan was having money problems, 243 00:17:49,626 --> 00:17:54,000 and I offered her a walk-on in this film. 244 00:17:58,334 --> 00:18:02,501 It's just so funny to think of Sontag being in a New Wave film 245 00:18:02,626 --> 00:18:05,501 since she's going to go on to make New Wave film 246 00:18:05,626 --> 00:18:12,501 something very, very important in the U.S. 247 00:18:12,626 --> 00:18:15,501 She is somebody who is constantly being reborn. 248 00:18:15,626 --> 00:18:19,084 I mean it wasn't just from being in France or from making 249 00:18:19,209 --> 00:18:20,626 love with Harriet. 250 00:18:20,751 --> 00:18:23,501 She was constantly discovering things and becoming 251 00:18:23,626 --> 00:18:24,875 a new person. 252 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,584 And that's her kind of essential avant-gardism. 253 00:18:28,709 --> 00:18:33,126 You can either suspect it or really, really admire it. 254 00:18:34,792 --> 00:18:43,167 I see Paris as getting her out of her marriage. 255 00:18:43,292 --> 00:18:47,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: The thought of going back to my old life...it hardly seems 256 00:18:47,626 --> 00:18:51,417 like a dilemma anymore. 257 00:18:51,542 --> 00:18:54,417 I can't. 258 00:18:54,542 --> 00:18:56,792 I won't. 259 00:18:58,042 --> 00:19:00,874 Susan had her year or whatever it was, 260 00:19:00,999 --> 00:19:07,292 came home, and said, "That's it." 261 00:19:07,417 --> 00:19:09,709 It was not a really pleasant divorce. 262 00:19:09,834 --> 00:19:13,626 ♪ 263 00:19:18,042 --> 00:19:20,874 WOMAN: College at 15. Marriage at 17? 264 00:19:20,999 --> 00:19:22,042 SONTAG: Yes. 265 00:19:22,167 --> 00:19:23,501 A child at... 19. 266 00:19:23,626 --> 00:19:24,874 Yeah. 267 00:19:24,999 --> 00:19:27,501 These numbers suggest what? 268 00:19:27,626 --> 00:19:31,209 Eagerness to grow up. 269 00:19:31,334 --> 00:19:33,167 I hated being a child. 270 00:19:33,292 --> 00:19:35,501 I couldn't do what I wanted to do. 271 00:19:35,626 --> 00:19:37,501 I wanted to stay up all night. 272 00:19:37,626 --> 00:19:39,874 I wanted to see the world. 273 00:19:39,999 --> 00:19:41,874 I wanted to talk to people. 274 00:19:41,999 --> 00:19:45,626 I wanted to meet people who were interested in what I was interested in. 275 00:19:45,751 --> 00:19:49,626 ♪ 276 00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:56,501 My parents lived abroad. They lived in China. 277 00:19:56,626 --> 00:19:59,626 My father was a businessman in China. 278 00:20:00,417 --> 00:20:03,793 They came back to the United States for my birth 279 00:20:03,918 --> 00:20:07,417 and for that of my younger sister. 280 00:20:07,542 --> 00:20:13,501 Then they left us with various relatives. 281 00:20:13,626 --> 00:20:19,834 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: Milk with vanilla flavor in it and peanut butter crackers. 282 00:20:19,959 --> 00:20:24,000 The egg timer on the wall in the kitchen. 283 00:20:24,125 --> 00:20:27,751 Betting 25 cents on the world series with Gramps. 284 00:20:27,876 --> 00:20:31,000 I for the Yanks, he for The Bums. 285 00:20:32,999 --> 00:20:38,626 From my upper bunk, testing Judith on the capitals of all the states. 286 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:51,875 Daddy died October 19, 1938. 287 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,125 COHEN: He fell ill for the last time 288 00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:58,792 and died in China of tuberculosis. 289 00:21:01,250 --> 00:21:03,875 SONTAG: My father died so far away and without my knowing it. 290 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,667 I didn't even know he was dead until about a year after. 291 00:21:09,626 --> 00:21:14,709 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: I didn't really believe my father was dead. 292 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,875 For years and years, I dreamed he turned up one day 293 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,250 at the door. 294 00:21:26,250 --> 00:21:30,000 ♪ 295 00:21:31,751 --> 00:21:33,501 When I was 6, my sister was 3, 296 00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:35,958 we ended up with my mother, who was very 297 00:21:36,083 --> 00:21:40,501 much a part-time mother in Tucson, Arizona. 298 00:21:40,626 --> 00:21:46,501 COHEN: Our mother, Mildred, didn't focus totally on us. 299 00:21:46,626 --> 00:21:51,334 Let me put it this way. We had a lot of uncles who were not 300 00:21:51,459 --> 00:21:53,501 our uncles. 301 00:21:53,626 --> 00:22:00,667 And they just kind of came and went. 302 00:22:00,792 --> 00:22:04,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: I wasn't my mother's child. 303 00:22:04,626 --> 00:22:07,501 I was her subject, companion, 304 00:22:07,626 --> 00:22:10,874 friend, consort. 305 00:22:10,999 --> 00:22:15,875 My habit of "holding back" is loyalty to my mother. 306 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,000 ♪ 307 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,334 SONTAG: My mother met a very glamorous war veteran, 308 00:22:27,459 --> 00:22:30,501 full of medals and shrapnel. 309 00:22:30,626 --> 00:22:32,875 He had been shot down 6 days after D-Day and was 310 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,875 convalescing in Tucson. 311 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,250 And his name was Sontag. 312 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,000 COHEN: They just went to Mexico one day, and they came back 313 00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:43,875 and they said, "We're married." 314 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,584 Susan and I were extremely hurt that we weren't invited 315 00:22:47,709 --> 00:22:50,209 to go to Mexico to the wedding. 316 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,875 We were delighted to have a change in name. 317 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,125 We were so clearly identified as being Jewish with a name 318 00:22:59,250 --> 00:23:03,501 like Rosenblatt that my sister who was older and I guess 319 00:23:03,626 --> 00:23:09,792 an easier target did get hit in the head and called names. 320 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,875 From Tucson, we moved to Southern California and ended up 321 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,501 in Sherman Oaks in the valley. 322 00:23:20,626 --> 00:23:25,875 SONTAG, VOICE-OVER: I can remember a rather small house, very modest. 323 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,874 And I was lying on my stomach in the living room and I 324 00:23:28,999 --> 00:23:30,376 was reading. 325 00:23:30,501 --> 00:23:34,874 And then this large pair of pants and shoes walked by me, 326 00:23:34,999 --> 00:23:37,542 and it was of course Mr. Sontag. 327 00:23:37,667 --> 00:23:40,875 He said "Sue, if you read so much, you'll never 328 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,874 get married." 329 00:23:42,999 --> 00:23:44,793 And I burst out laughing. 330 00:23:44,918 --> 00:23:47,000 I thought this was the most preposterous thing I ever heard, 331 00:23:47,125 --> 00:23:49,501 because it never occurred to me that I would 332 00:23:49,626 --> 00:23:53,167 want to marry someone who didn't like someone who read a lot of books. 333 00:23:53,292 --> 00:23:57,626 ♪ 334 00:23:59,918 --> 00:24:02,168 [Sontag speaking French] 335 00:24:30,626 --> 00:24:34,626 ♪ 336 00:24:49,626 --> 00:24:51,876 [Man speaking French] 337 00:25:08,876 --> 00:25:11,126 [Speaking French] 338 00:25:19,626 --> 00:25:21,876 [Speaking French] 339 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: The truth is always something that is told, not something 340 00:25:42,626 --> 00:25:44,793 that is known. 341 00:25:44,918 --> 00:25:48,626 If there were no speaking or writing, there would be no 342 00:25:48,751 --> 00:25:51,501 truth about anything. 343 00:25:51,626 --> 00:25:59,584 There would only be what is. 344 00:25:59,709 --> 00:26:01,584 She gave me a copy of the book, 345 00:26:01,709 --> 00:26:03,376 signed to me and the baby. 346 00:26:03,501 --> 00:26:05,292 It's back here somewhere. "The Benefactor." 347 00:26:05,417 --> 00:26:06,874 That's her first novel. 348 00:26:06,999 --> 00:26:08,125 It's awful. 349 00:26:08,250 --> 00:26:13,875 "TIME" magazine reviewer for "The Benefactor" in 1963 said it 350 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,875 sounded like a blurred translation from some 351 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,501 other language. 352 00:26:18,626 --> 00:26:22,875 All interesting writers now have been touched in some way 353 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,000 by this search for new forms or trying to do something 354 00:26:27,125 --> 00:26:30,874 with the story or with narration in one way or another. 355 00:26:30,999 --> 00:26:33,501 That nobody's really writing straight stories. 356 00:26:33,626 --> 00:26:38,125 Sontag really opted out of realism. 357 00:26:38,250 --> 00:26:40,874 Very abstract, philosophical prose. 358 00:26:40,999 --> 00:26:43,084 That's what she was going for. 359 00:26:43,209 --> 00:26:46,501 And I think she fashioned herself as being both 360 00:26:46,626 --> 00:26:47,875 a theorist and a fiction writer. 361 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,042 Always wanted the double identity. 362 00:26:50,167 --> 00:26:53,874 That's why I find "The Benefactor" a really brave book 363 00:26:53,999 --> 00:26:56,875 even though it's a bad novel. 364 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,000 ♪ 365 00:27:05,626 --> 00:27:09,875 ZWERLING: I started feeling very lonely, and it was winter. 366 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,875 Winter is awful in Paris. 367 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,626 Susan was living in New York already. 368 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,501 I just had the idea--maybe I should go back to New York 369 00:27:21,626 --> 00:27:24,501 for a while and see what it's like. 370 00:27:24,626 --> 00:27:28,626 ♪ 371 00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:33,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: There has appeared in New York recently 372 00:27:33,626 --> 00:27:38,626 a new and still esoteric genre of spectacle-- 373 00:27:38,751 --> 00:27:42,501 at first sight, apparently a cross between art exhibit 374 00:27:42,626 --> 00:27:44,875 and theatrical performance. 375 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,459 These events have been given the modest and somewhat 376 00:27:48,584 --> 00:27:57,501 teasing name of "Happenings". 377 00:27:57,626 --> 00:28:01,874 ZWERLING: Susan was living on West End Avenue with her son. 378 00:28:01,999 --> 00:28:07,875 And I moved in with her, and she met Irene Fornes. 379 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,875 Irene and I had been involved before. 380 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,501 I really loved her, 381 00:28:14,626 --> 00:28:17,501 but we had broken up already. 382 00:28:17,626 --> 00:28:22,042 Anyway, concerning Susan, 383 00:28:22,167 --> 00:28:25,875 things were going on that I didn't quite get. 384 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:31,042 I'd be there with David, putting David to bed and she'd 385 00:28:31,167 --> 00:28:36,501 come home, like, 3:00 in the morning, reeking of Mitsouko 386 00:28:36,626 --> 00:28:40,501 which is a wonderful perfume of Guerlain, which I had 387 00:28:40,626 --> 00:28:44,126 given to Irene, and I didn't pick up on it. 388 00:28:45,626 --> 00:28:47,917 Irene was her best lover. 389 00:28:48,042 --> 00:28:52,875 As I've said to many people, Irene could make a stone come. 390 00:28:54,626 --> 00:28:56,793 I mean, she was just incredible. 391 00:28:56,918 --> 00:29:01,501 With Irene, you had a real functioning creative artist. 392 00:29:01,626 --> 00:29:05,834 A part of the downtown Bohemia of her time. 393 00:29:05,959 --> 00:29:09,834 Susan discovered the brilliance of talent as 394 00:29:09,959 --> 00:29:12,626 opposed to the brilliance of intellect. 395 00:29:12,751 --> 00:29:16,542 There were these remarkable people who didn't know 396 00:29:16,667 --> 00:29:21,501 anything about the issues that were so important to her, 397 00:29:21,626 --> 00:29:22,958 who had never read Nietzsche, 398 00:29:23,083 --> 00:29:27,584 who can't spell or pronounce his name. 399 00:29:27,709 --> 00:29:30,875 That was a jolt for her and a liberating one. 400 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,000 ♪ 401 00:29:40,999 --> 00:29:45,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: What I love; what draws me very much to writing is it's 402 00:29:45,626 --> 00:29:48,875 a way of paying attention to the world. 403 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,751 You're just an instrument for tuning in to as much reality 404 00:29:52,876 --> 00:29:54,501 as you can. 405 00:29:54,626 --> 00:29:58,626 ♪ 406 00:30:01,209 --> 00:30:05,917 KOCH: I met Susan right around the time that "Notes on Camp" hit 407 00:30:06,042 --> 00:30:09,501 and transformed her position. 408 00:30:09,626 --> 00:30:12,542 WOMAN: Sontag was an iron lady. 409 00:30:12,667 --> 00:30:16,874 She was imperious, magisterial, authoritative. 410 00:30:16,999 --> 00:30:18,376 "Here is what Camp is. 411 00:30:18,501 --> 00:30:20,626 "No one's ever thought about it before, and I'll tell you 412 00:30:20,751 --> 00:30:22,874 what it is." 413 00:30:22,999 --> 00:30:27,626 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish 414 00:30:27,751 --> 00:30:31,501 moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism 415 00:30:31,626 --> 00:30:33,209 and irony. 416 00:30:33,334 --> 00:30:37,626 ♪ 417 00:30:44,626 --> 00:30:51,542 KOCH: Here was the possibility of this gay trash coming forward 418 00:30:51,667 --> 00:30:54,501 and claiming a position for itself. 419 00:30:54,626 --> 00:31:00,084 Moving away from supposed high seriousness to low seriousness 420 00:31:00,209 --> 00:31:05,501 was seen as a very threatening thing to a certain generation. 421 00:31:05,626 --> 00:31:07,999 It was a watershed moment. 422 00:31:09,626 --> 00:31:13,874 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: The essence of Camp is its love of the unnatural, 423 00:31:13,999 --> 00:31:19,542 of artifice and exaggeration. 424 00:31:19,667 --> 00:31:23,875 The most refined form of sexual attractiveness, as well as the 425 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,417 most refined form of sexual pleasure consists in going 426 00:31:28,542 --> 00:31:32,000 against the grain of one's sex. 427 00:31:34,083 --> 00:31:38,793 KOCH: She's not making a big theoretical argument. 428 00:31:38,918 --> 00:31:41,874 She's saying "Look at this, look at that, look at this, 429 00:31:41,999 --> 00:31:45,501 look at that", and by the time you're through, something's 430 00:31:45,626 --> 00:31:47,876 been opened up to you. 431 00:31:48,459 --> 00:31:52,417 You don't have to be Schoenberg. You could be 432 00:31:52,542 --> 00:31:56,042 Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire and it could be good. 433 00:31:56,167 --> 00:32:03,250 Maybe it's so bad that it's good! 434 00:32:03,375 --> 00:32:05,875 The idea of Camp was something absolutely unknown to 435 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,376 straight people. 436 00:32:08,501 --> 00:32:12,334 Really what Camp was was a code. 437 00:32:14,417 --> 00:32:16,626 NELSON: She's saying "I'm a cultural ethnographer. 438 00:32:16,751 --> 00:32:20,501 "I've gone into this strange land of queers and I know 439 00:32:20,626 --> 00:32:23,875 "something about them but I'm not the native informant. 440 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,501 "I'm the outsider who's gone in to study them with a certain 441 00:32:27,626 --> 00:32:31,293 kind of scrupulousness, but I'm not of them." 442 00:32:31,709 --> 00:32:33,875 You could just read between the lines. Of course she was 443 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,501 paying attention to gay lingo. 444 00:32:35,626 --> 00:32:37,376 She couldn't have written "Notes on Camp" if she hadn't 445 00:32:37,501 --> 00:32:39,125 done decades of homework. 446 00:32:39,250 --> 00:32:40,875 Honestly. 447 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,000 ♪ 448 00:32:47,417 --> 00:32:51,875 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: My desire to write is connected to my homosexuality. 449 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,667 I need the identity as a weapon to match the weapon 450 00:32:55,792 --> 00:32:58,125 that society has against me. 451 00:33:01,626 --> 00:33:07,000 I am just becoming aware of how guilty I feel being queer. 452 00:33:14,918 --> 00:33:19,917 The photograph of her on "I, Etcetera" was a sort of pin-up 453 00:33:20,042 --> 00:33:25,501 for every graduate school lesbian that I knew. 454 00:33:25,626 --> 00:33:27,874 It was just magnificent. 455 00:33:27,999 --> 00:33:33,875 And you felt sort of like ohhh...it's school girlish 456 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,459 to respond in this way to the photograph, 457 00:33:37,584 --> 00:33:39,709 especially cause she won't come out. 458 00:33:39,834 --> 00:33:43,626 ♪ 459 00:33:44,999 --> 00:33:48,875 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: No matter what I have said, my life, 460 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,875 my actions say that I have not loved the truth, 461 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,000 that I have not wanted the truth. 462 00:34:01,751 --> 00:34:05,501 CASTLE: I distinctly remember people saying, "Well, she should just-- 463 00:34:05,626 --> 00:34:07,875 "she should come out. 464 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,874 She is just letting us all down." 465 00:34:10,999 --> 00:34:15,501 This is a completely unfair-- first of all, to me, 466 00:34:15,626 --> 00:34:17,501 it's an unfair thing to say about anyone. 467 00:34:17,626 --> 00:34:20,459 At fir--I--and this is an age thing. 468 00:34:20,584 --> 00:34:23,417 To someone my age, this seems to me like a private thing. 469 00:34:23,542 --> 00:34:24,874 Why is it a private thing? 470 00:34:24,999 --> 00:34:26,501 Because for someone my age, for most of your life, it had 471 00:34:26,626 --> 00:34:27,875 to be a secret thing. 472 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,501 In "The Benefactor," her first novel, in 1963, she has 473 00:34:31,626 --> 00:34:35,084 the following sentence: "I am a homosexual and a writer, 474 00:34:35,209 --> 00:34:36,874 "both of whom are professionally 475 00:34:36,999 --> 00:34:40,875 self-regarding and self-esteeming creatures." 476 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,875 Does the author of "Notes on Camp" have to come out? 477 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,000 ♪ 478 00:34:52,626 --> 00:34:56,667 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: To interpret is to impoverish-- 479 00:34:56,792 --> 00:34:59,874 to deplete the world in order to set up a shadow world 480 00:34:59,999 --> 00:35:02,917 of meanings. 481 00:35:03,042 --> 00:35:06,376 The aim of all commentary on art should be to make works 482 00:35:06,501 --> 00:35:09,875 of art and our own experience more, rather than 483 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,501 less real to us. 484 00:35:13,626 --> 00:35:16,376 We need an erotics of art. 485 00:35:16,501 --> 00:35:20,626 ♪ 486 00:35:35,375 --> 00:35:37,084 MAN: "The lady swings. 487 00:35:37,209 --> 00:35:41,501 "She digs the Supremes and is savvy about Camp. 488 00:35:41,626 --> 00:35:45,875 "She likes her hair wild and her sentences intense. 489 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,501 "Miss Sontag has written a ponderable, vivacious 490 00:35:49,626 --> 00:35:53,000 and quite astonishingly American book." 491 00:35:55,667 --> 00:35:58,667 KOCH: Susan was a star. 492 00:35:58,792 --> 00:36:01,709 It was certainly not just her ideas. 493 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,000 She had gone from being a rising figure of obvious 494 00:36:07,125 --> 00:36:12,084 interest to being suddenly this famous writer. 495 00:36:12,209 --> 00:36:14,501 Boom--there would be something by Susan, and it 496 00:36:14,626 --> 00:36:19,501 leapt out...and it wasn't because of anything other than 497 00:36:19,626 --> 00:36:22,000 its literary star quality. 498 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,501 Style was a huge part of her work. 499 00:36:26,626 --> 00:36:30,501 And style--her style as a writer was inseparable from 500 00:36:30,626 --> 00:36:32,501 her style as a person. 501 00:36:32,626 --> 00:36:34,875 She was beautiful and glamorous. 502 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,459 There's no question about that. 503 00:36:36,584 --> 00:36:39,875 And she was very conscious of the effect she had on people. 504 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,958 Now, Susan, smile. Ha ha ha! 505 00:36:43,083 --> 00:36:44,874 Say cheese. 506 00:36:44,999 --> 00:36:47,875 KOCH: Susan was, among other things, 507 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,501 tremendously photogenic... 508 00:36:50,626 --> 00:36:52,542 and knew it. 509 00:36:52,667 --> 00:36:54,875 Just what you're doing. 510 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,501 Tell me when it starts. 511 00:36:56,626 --> 00:36:59,751 Yes, I'll tell you when it starts. 512 00:36:59,876 --> 00:37:03,875 Whenever I read about her, there's almost always a phrase: 513 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,501 "One of the most photographed women of her generation," 514 00:37:06,626 --> 00:37:10,501 like this is some sort of accident of nature, like an earthquake. 515 00:37:10,626 --> 00:37:13,167 She knew the power of photography. 516 00:37:13,292 --> 00:37:19,501 So she created that image, and it worked. 517 00:37:19,626 --> 00:37:24,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: Being photographed, I feel transfixed, trapped. 518 00:37:24,626 --> 00:37:26,875 I become the looked at. 519 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,875 For as much as I am a professional see-er, I am 520 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,875 a hopelessly amateur see-ee, 521 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,875 an eternal photographic virgin. 522 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,875 I feel the same perplexity each time I am photographed. 523 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,000 ♪ 524 00:37:51,375 --> 00:37:55,875 [Audience murmuring and laughing] 525 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,501 I don't like being called a "lady writer," Norman. 526 00:37:58,626 --> 00:38:00,875 I know it does--it seems like gallantry to you, 527 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,376 but it doesn't feel right to us. 528 00:38:04,501 --> 00:38:06,292 It's a little better to be called a woman writer. 529 00:38:06,417 --> 00:38:07,875 I don't know why, but, you know, words count. 530 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,292 We're all writers, we know that. 531 00:38:09,417 --> 00:38:10,709 [Audience member shouts] 532 00:38:10,834 --> 00:38:13,584 Well, how about a woman doctor, a woman lawyer? 533 00:38:13,709 --> 00:38:15,874 Yeah, I mean, if you were introducing James Baldwin, 534 00:38:15,999 --> 00:38:18,084 you wouldn't say our foremost Negro writer. 535 00:38:18,209 --> 00:38:19,501 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Man writer! 536 00:38:19,626 --> 00:38:21,000 And we certainly wouldn't say a man writer. 537 00:38:21,125 --> 00:38:23,875 And so a lot of it, a lot of it-- 538 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,875 WOMAN: A gentleman writer! 539 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,874 [Laughter and applause] 540 00:38:29,999 --> 00:38:31,084 MAILER: Susan. Susan-- 541 00:38:31,209 --> 00:38:33,501 No, I really ask you this not in an argumentative spir-- 542 00:38:33,626 --> 00:38:36,874 I will never use the word "lady" again in public. 543 00:38:36,999 --> 00:38:38,709 [Applause] 544 00:38:38,834 --> 00:38:45,709 Don't allow yourself to be patronized, condescended to, 545 00:38:45,834 --> 00:38:50,667 which, if you are a woman happens, and will continue to 546 00:38:50,792 --> 00:38:54,501 happen all the time, all your lives. 547 00:38:54,626 --> 00:38:57,125 Don't take shit. Tell the bastards off. 548 00:38:57,250 --> 00:38:59,626 [Cheering and applause] 549 00:39:02,834 --> 00:39:06,875 WOMAN: When she had just become a Farrar, Straus, and Giroux author, 550 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,501 Roger and Dorothea Straus were giving one 551 00:39:09,626 --> 00:39:10,875 of their parties. 552 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,501 The custom was that after dinner, the men would go off to 553 00:39:15,626 --> 00:39:19,209 one room to smoke their cigars and have their conversation, 554 00:39:19,334 --> 00:39:22,084 and the women would go off to another room. 555 00:39:22,209 --> 00:39:26,501 When Susan saw this, she just went to join the men. 556 00:39:26,626 --> 00:39:27,875 And that was it. 557 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,875 Susan broke the tradition, and after that, we never split up 558 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,875 after dinner again. 559 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,874 WOMAN: I don't think feminism gave Susan anything. 560 00:39:38,999 --> 00:39:42,874 Susan had already taken out the license to be a great woman 561 00:39:42,999 --> 00:39:44,875 before there was any feminism; any talk 562 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,501 of feminism. 563 00:39:46,626 --> 00:39:50,292 In fact, I think feminism must've curtailed her sphere 564 00:39:50,417 --> 00:39:52,875 of activity because she had suddenly to identify with all 565 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,501 these women--all these dopey women! Ha ha! 566 00:39:57,626 --> 00:40:03,042 SONTAG: I'm a militant feminist, but I'm not a feminist militant. 567 00:40:03,167 --> 00:40:06,874 The main activity that I have as a writer I have as a writer 568 00:40:06,999 --> 00:40:08,250 and not as a woman writer. 569 00:40:08,375 --> 00:40:12,626 ♪ 570 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,626 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: To be a woman is to be an actress. 571 00:40:22,751 --> 00:40:25,501 Being feminine is a kind of theater, 572 00:40:25,626 --> 00:40:30,667 with its appropriate costumes, decor, lighting, 573 00:40:30,792 --> 00:40:33,042 and stylized gestures. 574 00:40:35,334 --> 00:40:37,209 The feminism is there. 575 00:40:37,334 --> 00:40:39,875 But she was such an individual; you know, she 576 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:45,084 so hated to be pigeon-holed, that, "I am not going to stamp 577 00:40:45,209 --> 00:40:46,875 my little feet and say 'Naughty, naughty, 578 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,793 'Susan Sontag. 579 00:40:48,918 --> 00:40:50,501 Why weren't you marching with your NOW button?'" 580 00:40:50,626 --> 00:40:54,875 But she was a feminist who found most women wanting. 581 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,542 "Why do they waste so much time worrying about what they 582 00:40:58,667 --> 00:41:02,209 looked like instead of what they thought?" 583 00:41:02,334 --> 00:41:04,501 SONTAG: I don't know what it means to be trapped in domesticity. 584 00:41:04,626 --> 00:41:09,667 I was married. I had a child whom I raised mostly myself 585 00:41:09,792 --> 00:41:14,459 because I was divorced when my son was 7 years old. 586 00:41:14,584 --> 00:41:16,501 And I have had a domestic life. 587 00:41:16,626 --> 00:41:21,875 I just don't think it's a trap. 588 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,376 KOLLISCH: My son was 7 when I first met Susan, and David I think 589 00:41:27,501 --> 00:41:30,501 was about 11 or 12. 590 00:41:30,626 --> 00:41:39,000 It was the first time that a woman courted me and won me. 591 00:41:41,626 --> 00:41:46,542 I might actually have met Susan via Irene. 592 00:41:46,667 --> 00:41:48,874 I don't think I ever knew the whole truth. 593 00:41:48,999 --> 00:41:51,875 I don't think she told me really how deeply she was 594 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,875 still involved with Irene and how much she was still in love 595 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,626 with her...I didn't know. 596 00:41:57,751 --> 00:42:00,875 I mean I never considered myself main lover... 597 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,501 lover number 1, main wife, or whatever--no. 598 00:42:04,626 --> 00:42:09,501 I was sort of the interlude. 599 00:42:09,626 --> 00:42:13,874 We tried to have a life where we could do our mothering 600 00:42:13,999 --> 00:42:19,501 and pursue our work and have a little extra time for fun or 601 00:42:19,626 --> 00:42:23,959 walking around the Village or talking or making love. 602 00:42:25,626 --> 00:42:28,584 I was a much more traditional mother. 603 00:42:28,709 --> 00:42:31,167 I wanted my son to have a regular bedtime. 604 00:42:31,292 --> 00:42:33,874 I wanted him to eat normal food. Ha ha! 605 00:42:33,999 --> 00:42:40,501 And I think that Susan treated David like a peer I think long 606 00:42:40,626 --> 00:42:43,293 before she should have done that. 607 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: Yesterday, David announced as he was being prepared for bed, 608 00:42:50,626 --> 00:42:54,584 "You know what I see when I shut my eyes? 609 00:42:54,709 --> 00:42:57,751 I see Jesus on the cross." 610 00:42:57,876 --> 00:43:00,874 It's time for Homer, I think. 611 00:43:00,999 --> 00:43:02,875 Paganize his tender spirit. 612 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,000 ♪ 613 00:43:11,626 --> 00:43:16,334 KOLLISCH: I think she came to me for the part that was the old Susan-- 614 00:43:16,459 --> 00:43:19,167 the one who was hungry and took off her shoes and raided 615 00:43:19,292 --> 00:43:22,501 the 'fridgerator and started to gossip and be 616 00:43:22,626 --> 00:43:23,875 very comfortable. 617 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,917 I knew that she had really another life among very famous people. 618 00:43:28,042 --> 00:43:31,501 On one or two occasions when I was in some lecture 619 00:43:31,626 --> 00:43:35,459 or some social event, Susan treated me quite shabbily. 620 00:43:35,584 --> 00:43:39,042 She didn't introduce me, or if she did then she left me 621 00:43:39,167 --> 00:43:44,626 standing there, and that offended me and hurt me a lot. 622 00:43:46,042 --> 00:43:49,875 She was never able to know what goes on 623 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,874 in another person. 624 00:43:51,999 --> 00:43:54,875 I mean the sensitivity that we exercise in everyday life all 625 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,875 the time, you know, like, "What are you thinking? 626 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,501 "What are you feeling? Where are you in this?" 627 00:43:59,626 --> 00:44:02,875 Susan was not sensitive, 628 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,542 was not a sensitive person. 629 00:44:04,667 --> 00:44:08,626 ♪ 630 00:44:10,792 --> 00:44:13,000 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: My image of myself since age 631 00:44:13,125 --> 00:44:17,501 3 or 4: the Genius-Schmuck. 632 00:44:17,626 --> 00:44:22,501 I develop relationships to satisfy one or the other. 633 00:44:22,626 --> 00:44:29,501 Irene, obviously, was for the schmuck, Philip for the genius. 634 00:44:29,626 --> 00:44:34,875 Yet both are always there, like Siamese twins. 635 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,000 ♪ 636 00:44:44,626 --> 00:44:48,751 It came to me last night that I have lost Irene. 637 00:44:48,876 --> 00:44:53,875 Like a bulletin coming into view in Times Square. 638 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,875 Her eyes are blank. 639 00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,250 She has let go. 640 00:45:09,709 --> 00:45:13,084 KOCH: She was briefly involved with Jasper Johns. 641 00:45:13,209 --> 00:45:17,874 In Jasper, Susan's ego met its match. 642 00:45:17,999 --> 00:45:21,875 She didn't think that there were many people around who 643 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,501 were her equal, so she sought out people who were her equal 644 00:45:26,626 --> 00:45:28,875 though in very different areas. 645 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,501 She slept with whomever she felt like sleeping with. 646 00:45:33,626 --> 00:45:36,709 She was very resistant to categories. 647 00:45:36,834 --> 00:45:39,501 NUNEZ: She had relationships with women and she had 648 00:45:39,626 --> 00:45:41,626 relationships with men, and she fell in love 649 00:45:41,751 --> 00:45:45,084 with women and she fell in love with men. 650 00:45:47,042 --> 00:45:52,875 LEVINE: After Irene and Eva--oh, and then there was Lily Engler 651 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,584 and Carlotta. 652 00:45:54,709 --> 00:45:55,875 Things were very elaborate. 653 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,875 I mean this was after all, you know, this was 654 00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,000 the sixties in the Village. 655 00:45:59,125 --> 00:46:03,000 ♪ 656 00:46:21,501 --> 00:46:22,874 Doctor! 657 00:46:22,999 --> 00:46:24,874 Will you tell these fools I'm not crazy? 658 00:46:24,999 --> 00:46:27,875 Make them listen to me before it's too late! 659 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,501 [Car horn honks] 660 00:46:29,626 --> 00:46:31,667 They're here already! 661 00:46:31,792 --> 00:46:33,292 You're next! 662 00:46:33,417 --> 00:46:34,917 [Zapping] 663 00:46:35,042 --> 00:46:38,334 Aah! 664 00:46:38,459 --> 00:46:40,874 Aaaaaah! 665 00:46:40,999 --> 00:46:42,501 She writes about science fiction-- 666 00:46:42,626 --> 00:46:45,501 like, trashy science fiction B films, you know-- 667 00:46:45,626 --> 00:46:47,875 "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers." 668 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,875 You cannot imagine any other New York intellectuals writing about this. 669 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,501 It's just preposterous. 670 00:46:53,626 --> 00:46:56,667 [Gunfire] 671 00:46:56,792 --> 00:47:00,417 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: We live under continual threat of two equally fearful 672 00:47:00,542 --> 00:47:03,667 but seemingly opposed destinies-- 673 00:47:03,792 --> 00:47:08,793 unremitting banality and inconceivable terror. 674 00:47:08,918 --> 00:47:11,168 [Explosions] 675 00:47:13,751 --> 00:47:18,501 It is fantasy which allows most people to cope with these 676 00:47:18,626 --> 00:47:20,875 twin spectres. 677 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,250 [Explosions] 678 00:47:31,417 --> 00:47:35,000 It was from a weekly visit to the cinema that you learned 679 00:47:35,125 --> 00:47:44,501 how to strut, how to kiss, to fight, to grieve. 680 00:47:44,626 --> 00:47:46,334 [Tires squeal] 681 00:47:46,459 --> 00:47:49,501 MAN: In the days of the New Wave, the latest Godard 682 00:47:49,626 --> 00:47:54,501 or Fassbinder--this was a big, big deal, and Susan was there 683 00:47:54,626 --> 00:48:00,292 before anybody. 684 00:48:00,417 --> 00:48:05,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: Cinema was poetic and mysterious and erotic 685 00:48:05,626 --> 00:48:09,584 and moral-- all at the same time. 686 00:48:09,709 --> 00:48:12,875 You wanted to be kidnapped by the movie. 687 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,000 ♪ 688 00:48:26,209 --> 00:48:29,501 KOCH: She says to me blandly over dinner in a Chinese 689 00:48:29,626 --> 00:48:35,126 restaurant, "Oh, by the way, I'm going to Sweden to make a movie." 690 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,459 She'd got a letter saying, "Dear Ms. Sontag. 691 00:48:40,584 --> 00:48:43,501 We would like you to make a movie". 692 00:48:43,626 --> 00:48:44,875 This is like fantasy land. 693 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,542 It's fantasy. 694 00:48:46,667 --> 00:48:49,084 It doesn't happen to anybody. 695 00:48:50,626 --> 00:48:53,667 MAN: Its a very strange movie. 696 00:48:53,792 --> 00:48:54,874 You think? 697 00:48:54,999 --> 00:48:56,584 Politics--yeah, I think it's strange. 698 00:48:56,709 --> 00:48:58,874 Politics is involved in some way. 699 00:48:58,999 --> 00:49:05,501 The sexuality of these people, the ideology of these people 700 00:49:05,626 --> 00:49:07,874 are played with. 701 00:49:07,999 --> 00:49:10,874 Most people you see in movies have very little relation to real people. 702 00:49:10,999 --> 00:49:13,501 In the average Hollywood movie, you don't see real people, 703 00:49:13,626 --> 00:49:17,209 either mainstream people or marginal people. 704 00:49:22,334 --> 00:49:24,626 [Speaking native language] 705 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,875 You're a little annoyed with them, I mean, because they're 706 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,667 not eating or whatever it is. 707 00:49:42,792 --> 00:49:45,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: Filmmaking is blind instinct, 708 00:49:45,626 --> 00:49:47,501 petty calculations, 709 00:49:47,626 --> 00:49:50,459 smooth generalship, 710 00:49:50,584 --> 00:49:58,501 daydreaming, pig-headedness, grace, bluff, risk. 711 00:49:58,626 --> 00:50:00,917 [People speaking native language] 712 00:50:01,042 --> 00:50:04,501 I remember the films as feeling very Bergman-esque to me, 713 00:50:04,626 --> 00:50:06,501 you know? 714 00:50:06,626 --> 00:50:09,501 But she was learning how to do it right in front of us. 715 00:50:09,626 --> 00:50:12,167 Yes, I know. I read the reviews. 716 00:50:12,292 --> 00:50:13,584 MAN: Have you any comments? 717 00:50:13,709 --> 00:50:15,959 I think they're wrong. 718 00:50:17,167 --> 00:50:21,000 ♪ 719 00:50:23,417 --> 00:50:24,667 SONTAG: I love photography so much. 720 00:50:24,792 --> 00:50:25,874 I look at pictures. 721 00:50:25,999 --> 00:50:28,916 I think about pictures all the time. 722 00:50:31,918 --> 00:50:35,125 If I were to say to you right now, "Susan Sontag, I'd like to take your picture," 723 00:50:35,250 --> 00:50:37,875 you'd pull yourself up, arrange yourself. 724 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,292 Sure, and I'd do this and--that's right. 725 00:50:41,417 --> 00:50:42,875 We have a notion about a photograph. 726 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,626 You see, we want photographs to tell us the truth, 727 00:50:45,751 --> 00:50:46,875 and we value them because they really are 728 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,501 records in a sense, let's say, that painting isn't. 729 00:50:49,626 --> 00:50:51,501 At the same time we want photographs to lie. 730 00:50:51,626 --> 00:50:52,875 We want them to make us look good, that is to say, better 731 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:58,209 than we normally look. 732 00:50:58,334 --> 00:51:02,501 SONTAG, VOICE-OVER: Our sense of the world is now ruled and shaped by 733 00:51:02,626 --> 00:51:04,501 photographed images. 734 00:51:04,626 --> 00:51:08,626 ♪ 735 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,875 What was the first photograph you saw that shocked 736 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,250 and horrified you? 737 00:51:26,626 --> 00:51:28,876 Does it still horrify you? 738 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,501 I think the overall effect of photographs, of painful, 739 00:51:38,626 --> 00:51:44,084 terrible photographs, is that one is less shocked. 740 00:51:44,209 --> 00:51:47,417 I think that when you see a lot of very shocking and painful 741 00:51:47,542 --> 00:51:49,875 photographs, you flinch less. 742 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,292 She's very deeply concerned about the way that the image 743 00:51:56,417 --> 00:52:02,501 is consuming all the public space for thinking. 744 00:52:02,626 --> 00:52:04,501 She thinks we should be dieting, right, 745 00:52:04,626 --> 00:52:07,501 that we should be consuming fewer images. 746 00:52:07,626 --> 00:52:11,626 ♪ 747 00:52:15,542 --> 00:52:20,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: The problem is not that people remember through photographs, 748 00:52:20,626 --> 00:52:23,875 but that they remember only the photographs. 749 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,000 ♪ 750 00:52:34,626 --> 00:52:38,501 LEVINE: I come in-- I had my own keys-- and I see the first sort 751 00:52:38,626 --> 00:52:43,501 of pre-copy of "On Photography," so I take the book and I go 752 00:52:43,626 --> 00:52:45,501 running upstairs, and there she is, 753 00:52:45,626 --> 00:52:49,875 indeed, lying spread-eagled on her back on her bed. 754 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,875 And I say, "Oh, you know, it looks so beautiful in the two 755 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,875 tones of gray," and all of this, and nothing. 756 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,501 Not a word. 757 00:52:57,626 --> 00:53:00,542 Sit down on the bed, and she just turns her head, 758 00:53:00,667 --> 00:53:03,542 looks at me straight in the eyes, and said, 759 00:53:03,667 --> 00:53:06,875 "But it's not as good as Walter Benjamin, is it?" 760 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,875 And I thought, "OK, moment of truth." 761 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,875 And I took a breath and I said, "No, it's not, but that 762 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,875 doesn't mean it isn't the best book of essays by an American 763 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,875 since the Second World War." 764 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:23,000 ♪ 765 00:53:50,626 --> 00:53:54,334 SONTAG: The first time I ever saw photographs of the Nazi camps, 766 00:53:54,459 --> 00:53:56,709 I was 12 years old. 767 00:53:57,626 --> 00:54:05,376 And I was in a bookstore and I opened this book, 768 00:54:05,501 --> 00:54:08,250 and I thought I was going to faint. 769 00:54:08,375 --> 00:54:09,751 I was so upset. 770 00:54:09,876 --> 00:54:11,875 I immediately closed the book. 771 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:17,875 I was trembling, and then I opened it again. 772 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,167 And I knew--I knew what I was seeing. 773 00:54:21,292 --> 00:54:23,667 I knew that the Nazis had killed a lot of Jews. 774 00:54:23,792 --> 00:54:27,874 I knew that I was Jewish, but I didn't know it meant 775 00:54:27,999 --> 00:54:30,084 what I saw. 776 00:54:30,209 --> 00:54:33,999 ♪ 777 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,333 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: Let the atrocious images haunt us. 778 00:54:47,999 --> 00:54:52,584 This is what human beings are capable of doing, 779 00:54:52,709 --> 00:54:56,501 may volunteer to do, enthusiastically, 780 00:54:56,626 --> 00:54:58,876 self-righteously. 781 00:55:01,417 --> 00:55:03,917 Don't forget. 782 00:55:04,042 --> 00:55:08,000 ♪ 783 00:55:20,999 --> 00:55:23,501 MAN: Being Jewish--does that matter to you? 784 00:55:23,626 --> 00:55:26,584 It matters in the sense that I would always stand up and be 785 00:55:26,709 --> 00:55:30,000 counted any time that it mattered for other people. 786 00:55:30,125 --> 00:55:33,584 I'm Jewish because other people say I am 787 00:55:33,709 --> 00:55:35,875 and because that's what I am sociologically or historically. 788 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:40,626 I come from a family which generations ago belonged to 789 00:55:40,751 --> 00:55:43,001 a religious culture. 790 00:55:44,626 --> 00:55:50,875 KOLLISCH: We talked a lot about my life as a German Jewish refugee, 791 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:56,167 my having come out of that background, and Susan just... 792 00:55:56,292 --> 00:55:59,958 I guess peeling down to certain essentials. 793 00:56:00,083 --> 00:56:05,334 It was very important to live a mundane life and yet also be 794 00:56:05,459 --> 00:56:08,875 in touch with the possibility that your life could change 795 00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:14,542 radically any moment. 796 00:56:14,667 --> 00:56:17,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: I feel, as a Jew, 797 00:56:17,626 --> 00:56:21,874 a special responsibility to side with the oppressed 798 00:56:21,999 --> 00:56:23,501 and the weak. 799 00:56:23,626 --> 00:56:27,626 ♪ 800 00:56:36,918 --> 00:56:39,168 [Man speaking French] 801 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,250 [Sontag speaking French] 802 00:57:09,834 --> 00:57:12,667 What are we gonna do about Susan Sontag? 803 00:57:12,792 --> 00:57:15,167 Is there is something to be done about her? 804 00:57:15,292 --> 00:57:18,501 I don't know. I haven't-- I can't read her. 805 00:57:18,626 --> 00:57:20,751 She's unfathomable to me. 806 00:57:20,876 --> 00:57:22,875 She is as useful as anybody else to recall a mood 807 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,667 about America which is very fashionable these days-- 808 00:57:25,792 --> 00:57:30,834 America as being philistine, conformist, dedicated-- 809 00:57:30,959 --> 00:57:33,417 in the words of Howard Zinn--to death. 810 00:57:33,542 --> 00:57:37,626 ♪ 811 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,501 SONTAG, VOICE-OVER: At this moment, firm-bodied children are being charred by 812 00:57:49,626 --> 00:57:51,167 napalm bombs. 813 00:57:51,292 --> 00:57:55,501 Young men, Vietnamese and American, are falling like trees 814 00:57:55,626 --> 00:57:59,000 to lie forever with their faces in the mud. 815 00:57:59,125 --> 00:58:03,501 As writers, guardians of language, we may and should 816 00:58:03,626 --> 00:58:07,167 conceive ourselves to have a vocational connection with 817 00:58:07,292 --> 00:58:11,874 the life of truth, that is, of seriousness. 818 00:58:11,999 --> 00:58:13,875 Let's be serious. 819 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,000 ♪ 820 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,875 [People shouting] 821 00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,000 ♪ 822 00:58:46,626 --> 00:58:49,501 SONTAG, VOICE-OVER: I had accepted an invitation from the North Vietnamese government 823 00:58:49,626 --> 00:58:52,793 to visit North Vietnam as a reward for all 824 00:58:52,918 --> 00:58:54,501 the public speaking and getting arrested and whatnot 825 00:58:54,626 --> 00:58:55,958 that I had done. 826 00:58:56,083 --> 00:58:58,333 [Applause] 827 00:59:03,709 --> 00:59:07,626 ♪ 828 00:59:11,375 --> 00:59:15,167 Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, 829 00:59:15,292 --> 00:59:18,501 Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Marx, 830 00:59:18,626 --> 00:59:22,584 and Ballanchine ballets don't redeem what this particular 831 00:59:22,709 --> 00:59:26,000 civilization has wrought upon the world. 832 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:36,000 ♪ 833 00:59:41,375 --> 00:59:45,542 Indeed, I think she epitomizes what Albert Camus 834 00:59:45,667 --> 00:59:52,501 said: "The day when I am no more than a writer, I shall 835 00:59:52,626 --> 00:59:53,874 cease to write". 836 00:59:53,999 --> 00:59:56,249 [Bell clanging] 837 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,874 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: I arrived in Israel with a small crew during the recent 838 01:00:07,999 --> 01:00:12,626 Arab Israeli war to make a so-called documentary. 839 01:00:15,626 --> 01:00:18,501 Being rather tuned into sadness, to the tears 840 01:00:18,626 --> 01:00:22,875 of things, I put a lot of that in the film. 841 01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:27,000 ♪ 842 01:00:31,626 --> 01:00:36,417 SONTAG: What I want people to think about is how serious war is. 843 01:00:36,542 --> 01:00:41,584 It is more horrible than any kind of pictures could convey. 844 01:00:41,709 --> 01:00:44,501 And maybe one of the most horrible parts of it is that 845 01:00:44,626 --> 01:00:46,876 it becomes a normality. 846 01:00:48,083 --> 01:00:50,125 There is a culture of war. 847 01:00:50,250 --> 01:00:52,626 [People praying] 848 01:00:58,584 --> 01:01:01,459 I have may criticisms of the government, 849 01:01:01,584 --> 01:01:04,875 but I'm generally a supporter of Israel, and I don't feel 850 01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,501 that this is incompatible with a general left-wing 851 01:01:08,626 --> 01:01:09,875 point of view. 852 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,250 [Man singing] 853 01:01:17,459 --> 01:01:23,875 KOCH: "Promised Lands" was made possible by Nicole Stephane. 854 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,874 She was born Nicole Rothschild. 855 01:01:25,999 --> 01:01:30,584 She had had to flee France from the Nazis. 856 01:01:30,709 --> 01:01:31,875 She entered into the Resistance. 857 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:33,874 She was arrested. 858 01:01:33,999 --> 01:01:38,875 Then she became a movie star, in these fantastic films-- 859 01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:43,667 the great film "Les Enfants Terribles," in which she's this 860 01:01:43,792 --> 01:01:46,542 wonderful butch girl ... 861 01:01:46,667 --> 01:01:47,875 [Shouting] 862 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,874 [Knock on door] 863 01:01:50,999 --> 01:01:52,250 And she was Jewish. 864 01:01:52,375 --> 01:01:55,501 So there was absolutely everything to fascinate 865 01:01:55,626 --> 01:01:57,876 Susan Sontag. 866 01:02:01,250 --> 01:02:04,501 LEVINE: She had rented an apartment on the Place St. Germain, 867 01:02:04,626 --> 01:02:05,875 and of course, being Susan, it wasn't just 868 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,667 any old apartment. 869 01:02:07,792 --> 01:02:10,875 It was Sartre's old apartment, so this is where Beauvoir 870 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,501 and Sartre would meet. 871 01:02:12,626 --> 01:02:15,626 And she literally never spent a night in the apartment. 872 01:02:15,751 --> 01:02:18,874 She had immediately moved in with Nicole. 873 01:02:18,999 --> 01:02:23,000 ♪ 874 01:02:30,751 --> 01:02:33,417 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: I'm in love. 875 01:02:33,542 --> 01:02:36,626 Don't ask me how it's possible. 876 01:02:36,751 --> 01:02:40,875 It's just not in character; my nightmare-ridden, stubborn, 877 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,000 melancholy Jewish character. 878 01:02:45,626 --> 01:02:48,000 And yet, it's happened. 879 01:02:49,626 --> 01:02:51,876 [Woman speaking French] 880 01:03:04,999 --> 01:03:09,000 ♪ 881 01:03:17,459 --> 01:03:20,501 SONTAG: Despite the fact that I have lived a good part of my adult 882 01:03:20,626 --> 01:03:23,501 life by choice in Europe-- mostly in France-- 883 01:03:23,626 --> 01:03:26,875 I always come back here. 884 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,501 I certainly would not live in this country if I didn't live 885 01:03:29,626 --> 01:03:30,875 in New York City. 886 01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:35,000 ♪ 887 01:03:39,626 --> 01:03:43,875 KOCH: We were talking one morning, chatting, and she said, 888 01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,501 "Well I have to hang up now. 889 01:03:45,626 --> 01:03:47,501 "I've got a very busy day today. 890 01:03:47,626 --> 01:03:49,875 "I have to find out whether I'm being thrown out of my house 891 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,250 and whether I have cancer." 892 01:03:58,375 --> 01:04:00,501 The answer to both those questions by the end 893 01:04:00,626 --> 01:04:02,501 of the week was, "Yes." 894 01:04:02,626 --> 01:04:06,375 ♪ 895 01:04:07,999 --> 01:04:13,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: While I was busy zapping the world with my mind, 896 01:04:13,626 --> 01:04:15,501 my body fell down. 897 01:04:15,626 --> 01:04:19,626 ♪ 898 01:04:22,083 --> 01:04:24,875 I was told the cancer was too advanced to be 899 01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:26,834 likely to be curable 900 01:04:26,959 --> 01:04:30,209 and that I had 6 months or a year to live. 901 01:04:30,334 --> 01:04:34,000 ♪ 902 01:04:37,751 --> 01:04:42,874 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: Trying to race ahead of my death, to get in front of it, 903 01:04:42,999 --> 01:04:46,875 then turn around and face it. 904 01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,000 ♪ 905 01:04:53,626 --> 01:04:57,042 KOCH: It was discovered that she had a very aggressive breast cancer 906 01:04:57,167 --> 01:04:59,501 that would require very radical surgery. 907 01:04:59,626 --> 01:05:02,667 The phone rings and it's Nicole, and she says, "You have to come immediately. 908 01:05:02,792 --> 01:05:07,667 She's going to have this operation and it's a very good chance she won't survive." 909 01:05:07,792 --> 01:05:11,626 ♪ 910 01:05:12,667 --> 01:05:14,874 I never thought Susan would die. 911 01:05:14,999 --> 01:05:16,875 She was so alive. 912 01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:21,000 ♪ 913 01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:33,875 SONTAG: They were still being very conservative about how much 914 01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:35,874 chemotherapy they wanted to use. 915 01:05:35,999 --> 01:05:40,000 So, I found a very mainstream famous French chemotherapist 916 01:05:40,125 --> 01:05:42,292 who was willing to give me a lot more chemotherapy 917 01:05:42,417 --> 01:05:43,874 for a lot longer time. 918 01:05:43,999 --> 01:05:45,542 And it's really as simple as that. 919 01:05:45,667 --> 01:05:49,875 I didn't accept the fact that my case was hopeless. 920 01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:54,000 ♪ 921 01:05:56,999 --> 01:06:01,875 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: I feel like the Vietnam War. 922 01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,000 They're using chemical warfare on me. 923 01:06:08,209 --> 01:06:13,875 My illness is invasive, colonizing. 924 01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,875 It makes me want to shut up. 925 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,875 My body is talking louder than I ever could. 926 01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:25,000 ♪ 927 01:06:27,626 --> 01:06:29,876 [Speaking French] 928 01:06:39,751 --> 01:06:43,626 ♪ 929 01:06:48,999 --> 01:06:51,875 Only with Nicole could she completely let her hair down, 930 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,334 and she treated Nicole terribly-- 931 01:06:54,459 --> 01:06:56,875 yelled and screamed, and you know, "Why are you living 932 01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,501 and I'm dying?" and you know all of this. 933 01:06:59,626 --> 01:07:02,459 I remember these marvelous moments. 934 01:07:02,584 --> 01:07:06,501 We'd be at the dinner table, and Nicole would literally feed Susan by the fork. 935 01:07:06,626 --> 01:07:09,875 She'd find some particularly good morsel of whatever, 936 01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:16,874 you know, and Susan would just--would take it. 937 01:07:16,999 --> 01:07:18,874 SONTAG: I don't like feeling like a victim. 938 01:07:18,999 --> 01:07:21,626 And even though I had to believe that my doctors were 939 01:07:21,751 --> 01:07:25,042 probably right and that my case was hopeless, I always 940 01:07:25,167 --> 01:07:29,000 believe in the power of being an exception. 941 01:07:33,999 --> 01:07:36,582 [De Rothschild speaking French] 942 01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,875 SONTAG, VOICE-OVER: I fought for my life. 943 01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,501 I really wanted to live. 944 01:07:56,626 --> 01:07:58,875 I have no difficulty in saying, "Yes, I fought for my life." 945 01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:00,501 I did. 946 01:08:00,626 --> 01:08:04,626 ♪ 947 01:08:12,709 --> 01:08:18,875 SONTAG: Everything remembered is dear, touching, precious. 948 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:22,875 At least the past is safe, though we didn't know it 949 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,250 at the time. 950 01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:32,875 We know it now because we have survived. 951 01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:37,000 ♪ 952 01:08:49,999 --> 01:08:53,958 SONTAG: The oldest idea of illness, of what causes illness, is that 953 01:08:54,083 --> 01:08:56,875 it's some punishment, something that you actually 954 01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:03,209 deserve or that you've brought on yourself. 955 01:09:03,334 --> 01:09:07,501 SONTAG, VOICE-OVER: My subject is not physical illness itself, but the uses 956 01:09:07,626 --> 01:09:11,459 of illness as a figure or a metaphor. 957 01:09:11,584 --> 01:09:15,501 My point is that illness is not a metaphor and that the 958 01:09:15,626 --> 01:09:19,958 most truthful way of regarding illness is one most purified 959 01:09:20,083 --> 01:09:27,874 of metaphoric thinking. 960 01:09:27,999 --> 01:09:30,209 There is such a thing as accident. There is such 961 01:09:30,334 --> 01:09:34,459 a thing as fatality, and there is such a thing as thoroughly 962 01:09:34,584 --> 01:09:36,875 undeserved catastrophe. 963 01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:40,501 And one shouldn't try to make sense out of one's catastrophe 964 01:09:40,626 --> 01:09:43,501 by coming to feel guilty and feel therefore that you 965 01:09:43,626 --> 01:09:46,874 merited this terrible thing that happened to you, or allow 966 01:09:46,999 --> 01:09:50,666 other people to impose that kind of judgment. 967 01:09:59,626 --> 01:10:02,501 NUNEZ: Susan had been in a relationship for years 968 01:10:02,626 --> 01:10:06,667 with Nicole Stephane who lived always in Paris. 969 01:10:06,792 --> 01:10:09,874 And Susan had been in the habit of spending almost half 970 01:10:09,999 --> 01:10:11,209 her time there-- 971 01:10:11,334 --> 01:10:13,875 all the summer, for one thing. 972 01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,875 But that relationship broke up. 973 01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:20,000 ♪ 974 01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,501 It was long and slow, the break-up. 975 01:10:24,626 --> 01:10:30,501 I think that's what made it more painful. 976 01:10:30,626 --> 01:10:35,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: I had been hoping that Nicole would take me back. 977 01:10:35,626 --> 01:10:40,209 I have pleaded, wept, denounced, argued, raged. 978 01:10:46,417 --> 01:10:48,042 "Don't bother to lie. 979 01:10:48,167 --> 01:10:51,875 Don't bother to call. I am not interested anymore." 980 01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:56,000 ♪ 981 01:11:04,459 --> 01:11:07,501 NUNEZ: When I met David, he was living at home. 982 01:11:07,626 --> 01:11:10,501 Susan had just had breast cancer. 983 01:11:10,626 --> 01:11:13,875 She had never wanted to be alone, but now of course she 984 01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,626 was absolutely terrified of being alone. 985 01:11:16,751 --> 01:11:18,874 So, um, she really, 986 01:11:18,999 --> 01:11:23,875 really did not want him to move out of that apartment. 987 01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,875 She didn't want to eat a sandwich by herself 988 01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,875 in the kitchen, or have her morning coffee by herself. 989 01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,875 She wanted us to be there. 990 01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:38,000 ♪ 991 01:11:42,792 --> 01:11:45,793 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: Do I resent not being a genius? 992 01:11:45,918 --> 01:11:49,667 Am I sad about it? 993 01:11:49,792 --> 01:11:53,501 Would I be willing to pay the price for that? 994 01:11:53,626 --> 01:11:56,126 I think the price is solitude. 995 01:12:08,626 --> 01:12:13,626 SONTAG: I have lost a number of close friends. 996 01:12:13,751 --> 01:12:17,751 I've been going to funerals for the last 5 years. 997 01:12:19,626 --> 01:12:21,875 I realized that people were made to feel guilty or ashamed 998 01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,626 for being ill, 999 01:12:23,751 --> 01:12:26,417 and that drives me-- that drives me crazy. 1000 01:12:26,542 --> 01:12:30,501 Then I do feel that I must get on a horse and do battle 1001 01:12:30,626 --> 01:12:33,626 on behalf of the punished ill. 1002 01:12:35,459 --> 01:12:37,917 PINCKNEY: That memory I have in the kitchen, the phone ringing. 1003 01:12:38,042 --> 01:12:40,875 She explains that she's been on the phone with a guy she 1004 01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,875 doesn't know who had AIDS and who called her up and wanted 1005 01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,167 to talk about illness. 1006 01:12:47,292 --> 01:12:52,125 And at the time, you know, there wasn't a lot about AIDS 1007 01:12:52,250 --> 01:12:54,751 and how to deal with it, how to talk about it. 1008 01:12:54,876 --> 01:12:56,875 It was still a very terrifying and stigmatizing 1009 01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:58,751 sort of thing. 1010 01:12:58,876 --> 01:13:02,459 And she got calls from guys, because she had written 1011 01:13:02,584 --> 01:13:06,125 about what it was like to have the kind of disease that 1012 01:13:06,250 --> 01:13:07,875 ostracized you. 1013 01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:12,000 ♪ 1014 01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,501 SONTAG: "When I was home," he is reported to have said, 1015 01:13:17,626 --> 01:13:21,793 "I was afraid to sleep, as I was dropping off each night. 1016 01:13:21,918 --> 01:13:25,501 "It felt like just that, as if I were falling down 1017 01:13:25,626 --> 01:13:29,501 "a black hole. To sleep felt like giving in to death. 1018 01:13:29,626 --> 01:13:33,501 I slept every night with the light on." 1019 01:13:33,626 --> 01:13:36,501 "Never mentioned," Kate confirmed, 1020 01:13:36,626 --> 01:13:38,501 "that whatever happened it was over, 1021 01:13:38,626 --> 01:13:41,501 "the way he had lived until now, but, according to Ira, 1022 01:13:41,626 --> 01:13:44,875 "he did think about it, the end of bravado, 1023 01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:49,875 "the end of folly, the end of trusting life, the end of taking life 1024 01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,501 "for granted, and of treating life as something that, 1025 01:13:52,626 --> 01:13:57,875 samurai-like, he thought himself ready to throw away lightly, impudently." 1026 01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,000 ♪ 1027 01:14:17,125 --> 01:14:22,542 Like a hyperactive queen, I cruise culture daily, 1028 01:14:22,667 --> 01:14:27,875 have a thrill or flash of ecstasy several times a week. 1029 01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,875 My appetite is compulsive, promiscuous. 1030 01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:36,000 ♪ 1031 01:14:39,042 --> 01:14:43,875 LEVINE: Susan was attracted to women who were dedicated to 1032 01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:45,501 something, right? 1033 01:14:45,626 --> 01:14:48,209 So, Irene had her plays, 1034 01:14:48,334 --> 01:14:51,000 Nicole was this producer, 1035 01:14:51,125 --> 01:14:52,917 Lucinda Childs. 1036 01:14:53,042 --> 01:14:56,542 They were very successful at what they did. 1037 01:15:00,083 --> 01:15:03,626 Could never keep up with Susan, but if there was 1038 01:15:03,751 --> 01:15:06,501 something she really wanted to see or a book she really 1039 01:15:06,626 --> 01:15:09,999 wanted me to read, I would make the effort. 1040 01:15:11,999 --> 01:15:14,709 PINCKNEY: She was very commanding 1041 01:15:14,834 --> 01:15:17,042 and doing something rather new. 1042 01:15:17,167 --> 01:15:20,250 And plus Lucinda was a real star of downtown New York. 1043 01:15:20,375 --> 01:15:24,000 ♪ 1044 01:15:28,417 --> 01:15:32,334 Susan's feeling was that she preferred to stay 1045 01:15:32,459 --> 01:15:33,875 very private, 1046 01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:37,709 wanting to just be a professional. 1047 01:15:37,834 --> 01:15:41,874 "That's my identity, as far as I'm concerned. I'm a professional. 1048 01:15:41,999 --> 01:15:45,875 "And not wanting to hide anything, 1049 01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:49,501 "but you know just not wanting to necessarily 1050 01:15:49,626 --> 01:15:54,875 demonstrate or be demonstrative about my private life." 1051 01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:59,000 ♪ 1052 01:16:12,083 --> 01:16:15,875 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: It hurts to love. 1053 01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:20,501 It's like giving yourself to be flayed and knowing that 1054 01:16:20,626 --> 01:16:26,875 at any moment the other person may just walk off with your skin. 1055 01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:31,000 ♪ 1056 01:16:34,626 --> 01:16:38,875 MAN: Susan broke off with Lucinda. 1057 01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:42,209 She was wretched, and I took her home from something 1058 01:16:42,334 --> 01:16:44,875 and stayed there that night, all night long with her, cause 1059 01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:46,501 she was so miserable. 1060 01:16:46,626 --> 01:16:50,292 She spent about half the night telling me what a horrible 1061 01:16:50,417 --> 01:16:52,501 person Lucinda was and how much she hated her 1062 01:16:52,626 --> 01:16:54,042 and so forth. 1063 01:16:54,167 --> 01:16:58,874 And then, we got past that and she then said, "You know, 1064 01:16:58,999 --> 01:17:00,874 "about poetry, Richard. 1065 01:17:00,999 --> 01:17:05,209 Could you tell me about how to read verse?" 1066 01:17:05,334 --> 01:17:07,875 And we spent the rest of the night doing that 1067 01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,875 with Wallace Stevens. 1068 01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:14,000 ♪ 1069 01:17:24,417 --> 01:17:25,875 WOMAN: Annie Leibovitz, welcome back! Nice to see you. 1070 01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:27,334 Nice to see you. 1071 01:17:27,459 --> 01:17:31,417 So, why, Annie, a book of photographs about women? 1072 01:17:31,542 --> 01:17:32,958 Why not? 1073 01:17:33,083 --> 01:17:35,501 I mean it's a glorious, incredible subject. 1074 01:17:35,626 --> 01:17:37,376 I mean it's half the human race. 1075 01:17:37,501 --> 01:17:39,874 Like a half stop darker or something like that. 1076 01:17:39,999 --> 01:17:44,084 LEIBOVITZ: It was Susan Sontag who suggested American women, and I said 1077 01:17:44,209 --> 01:17:47,709 I would do it if she would write the essay. 1078 01:17:48,959 --> 01:17:50,875 She was interested, of course, in photography, like she was 1079 01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:53,626 interested in so many things, and, you know, she said, 1080 01:17:53,751 --> 01:17:55,834 "You're good, but you could be better." 1081 01:17:55,959 --> 01:17:59,958 Annie photographed her, and then some flowers came. 1082 01:18:00,083 --> 01:18:03,875 And Susan said she saw the flowers coming toward her 1083 01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:08,083 and she was thinking, "I hope they're from Annie." 1084 01:18:08,626 --> 01:18:11,334 MAN: Susan Sontag was your very close friend and companion? 1085 01:18:11,459 --> 01:18:13,501 We never used words like y'know like that. 1086 01:18:13,626 --> 01:18:16,501 I mean, you know, "very intimate friendship" is probably a better, 1087 01:18:16,626 --> 01:18:18,501 you know, better way. 1088 01:18:18,626 --> 01:18:23,125 I just never felt--we never used the jargon words. 1089 01:18:24,999 --> 01:18:29,501 COHEN: I would go to New York and stay with Susan. 1090 01:18:29,626 --> 01:18:31,875 Susan would leave in the middle of the night 1091 01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,501 because Annie was having a crisis-- 1092 01:18:34,626 --> 01:18:36,875 Annie was having a crisis with her family or something. 1093 01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,875 Well, that story got to wear very thin after a while, 1094 01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:43,417 and I kind of figured it out. 1095 01:18:46,375 --> 01:18:50,875 KOESTENBAUM: Susan Sontag lived in, I think 410 W. 24th, 1096 01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,542 and Annie Leibovitz lived in the tower here 465. 1097 01:18:55,667 --> 01:18:57,875 So they could see each other from their penthouses. 1098 01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,000 ♪ 1099 01:19:06,167 --> 01:19:07,709 [Raining] 1100 01:19:07,834 --> 01:19:11,875 LEVINE: I remember having dinner with Susan and Annie, and Susan 1101 01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,626 starts yelling at her about being stupid and all of this. 1102 01:19:15,751 --> 01:19:18,875 And then the next day, we're going off to something 1103 01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,875 at the Museum of Modern Art during the day and I'm walking 1104 01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,501 behind them, and I see Susan and Annie are holding hands as 1105 01:19:24,626 --> 01:19:29,875 they walk along. 1106 01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:33,501 WOMAN, AS SONTAG: What makes me feel strong? 1107 01:19:33,626 --> 01:19:37,501 Being in love and work. 1108 01:19:37,626 --> 01:19:44,250 I must work. 1109 01:19:44,375 --> 01:19:51,000 My name is Susan Sontag, President of American Center 1110 01:19:51,125 --> 01:19:52,875 of PEN. 1111 01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,501 DANNER: Susan really embodied an idea 1112 01:19:55,626 --> 01:20:00,501 of an intellectual that is, indeed, you could argue, passe. 1113 01:20:00,626 --> 01:20:04,875 Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the subcommittee, I'm very... 1114 01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,874 DANNER: It had to do with her belief in what 1115 01:20:07,999 --> 01:20:11,501 the role of the writer should properly be. 1116 01:20:11,626 --> 01:20:13,874 The writer was supposed to take a stand. 1117 01:20:13,999 --> 01:20:16,501 The writer was supposed to be there on the front lines. 1118 01:20:16,626 --> 01:20:19,167 The writer was supposed to stand for something. 1119 01:20:19,292 --> 01:20:23,000 ♪ 1120 01:20:28,999 --> 01:20:31,834 [Explosion] 1121 01:20:31,959 --> 01:20:34,209 [Gunfire] 1122 01:20:39,626 --> 01:20:42,958 SONTAG, VOICE-OVER: I guess I go to war because I think it's my duty to be in as 1123 01:20:43,083 --> 01:20:46,501 much contact with reality as I can be. 1124 01:20:46,626 --> 01:20:49,874 And war is a tremendous reality in our world. 1125 01:20:49,999 --> 01:20:51,875 You didn't go to be a spectator either. What did you do? 1126 01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:53,875 No, no. I worked in the city. I worked in the city. 1127 01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:57,501 I mean, when I first went, to my great surprise they asked me 1128 01:20:57,626 --> 01:20:59,125 to work in the theater. 1129 01:20:59,250 --> 01:21:00,751 I said, "No, you know, I don't want--" 1130 01:21:00,876 --> 01:21:01,917 In the midst of war? 1131 01:21:02,042 --> 01:21:04,834 Yeah. I said, "What do you want a play for?" 1132 01:21:04,959 --> 01:21:06,501 And they said, "We're not animals. 1133 01:21:06,626 --> 01:21:08,874 "We're not just people sheltering in our basements 1134 01:21:08,999 --> 01:21:11,542 "and standing on bread lines and water lines getting killed." 1135 01:21:11,667 --> 01:21:13,501 Yes, and says, "That's and end to his..." 1136 01:21:13,626 --> 01:21:17,501 I chose to do "Waiting for Godot" because it did seem to 1137 01:21:17,626 --> 01:21:20,501 illustrate a lot of the things that people are feeling now 1138 01:21:20,626 --> 01:21:22,042 in Sarajevo. 1139 01:21:22,167 --> 01:21:27,874 The play is about weak, vulnerable, abandoned people 1140 01:21:27,999 --> 01:21:31,667 trying to keep their spirits up while they wait for some 1141 01:21:31,792 --> 01:21:33,875 greater power to help them out. 1142 01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:38,000 ♪ 1143 01:21:41,626 --> 01:21:43,501 KOCH: There's a certain kind of person who likes to put 1144 01:21:43,626 --> 01:21:46,501 themselves in extreme situations because they feel 1145 01:21:46,626 --> 01:21:48,874 life is lived more fully there. 1146 01:21:48,999 --> 01:21:51,749 And Susan was one of those people. 1147 01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:55,501 You're just a little bit more notched up than you are 1148 01:21:55,626 --> 01:21:59,376 sitting around having coffee in New York City. 1149 01:22:01,626 --> 01:22:03,626 LEBOWITZ: Writers don't save lives. 1150 01:22:03,751 --> 01:22:05,874 Writers would like to save lives because it's more heroic. 1151 01:22:05,999 --> 01:22:09,292 Military action. That's what it takes to stop a genocide, by the way, 1152 01:22:09,417 --> 01:22:11,501 not productions of "Waiting for Godot." 1153 01:22:11,626 --> 01:22:16,874 She had this kind of heroic sense of what some human beings 1154 01:22:16,999 --> 01:22:21,501 could accomplish, in music, in writing, in art, in film, 1155 01:22:21,626 --> 01:22:22,874 in everything. 1156 01:22:22,999 --> 01:22:24,875 Extraordinary people. 1157 01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:29,292 But, you know, it was a limited number of people, 1158 01:22:29,417 --> 01:22:35,501 and was she ever going to drag herself up there onto Olympus. 1159 01:22:35,626 --> 01:22:39,626 ♪ 1160 01:22:43,501 --> 01:22:45,667 What do you believe in, then? 1161 01:22:45,792 --> 01:22:48,875 The hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch. 1162 01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:50,875 that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, 1163 01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:52,376 overrated crap. 1164 01:22:52,501 --> 01:22:55,501 I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses 1165 01:22:55,626 --> 01:22:57,876 that last three days. 1166 01:22:59,083 --> 01:23:02,999 And I think Susan Sontag is brilliant! 1167 01:23:04,417 --> 01:23:07,501 NELSON: She had an unbelievably good sense of what was important, 1168 01:23:07,626 --> 01:23:12,501 of what was interesting, and what was significant... 1169 01:23:12,626 --> 01:23:16,501 and I'm talking mostly about the sixties and seventies and maybe the early eighties. 1170 01:23:16,626 --> 01:23:18,167 I mean, I think as time goes on, she's 1171 01:23:18,292 --> 01:23:22,209 less engaged with the moment because she's getting older, 1172 01:23:22,334 --> 01:23:24,501 her interests are changing, 1173 01:23:24,626 --> 01:23:26,875 and she's less on the front lines. 1174 01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,292 SONTAG: When I began to write in the sixties when I was very young, 1175 01:23:30,417 --> 01:23:33,000 I worried that certain forms of the popular culture were being 1176 01:23:33,125 --> 01:23:36,875 neglected or ruled out or treated in a snobbish 1177 01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:38,376 and stupid way. 1178 01:23:38,501 --> 01:23:42,875 And so I seemed to be defending popular culture. 1179 01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:45,875 I think that the high culture which I took for granted when 1180 01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,501 I was growing up--the high culture that I aspired to live in 1181 01:23:49,626 --> 01:23:52,584 and to make my minute contribution to-- 1182 01:23:52,709 --> 01:23:56,501 that certainly has the quality of an endangered species. 1183 01:23:56,626 --> 01:24:00,501 What sort of civilization are you speaking of, Creature? 1184 01:24:00,626 --> 01:24:03,875 Diplomacy, creation-- that's what we're reaching toward. 1185 01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,874 The Geneva Convention, chamber music, Susan Sontag. 1186 01:24:06,999 --> 01:24:08,875 Everything your society has worked so hard to accomplish 1187 01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,084 over the centuries, that's what we aspire to. 1188 01:24:11,209 --> 01:24:12,874 We want to be civilized. 1189 01:24:12,999 --> 01:24:15,292 I mean, you take a look at this fellow here. 1190 01:24:15,417 --> 01:24:16,459 Bee-bee-ba-ba-bee-bee! 1191 01:24:16,584 --> 01:24:17,501 [Bang] 1192 01:24:17,626 --> 01:24:19,876 [Thud] 1193 01:24:21,709 --> 01:24:25,875 MAN: Don't you find yourself almost inevitably drawn to 1194 01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:27,501 the television set, 1195 01:24:27,626 --> 01:24:31,501 to the so-called popular questions...the questions 1196 01:24:31,626 --> 01:24:34,875 of what most people are seeing as art, 1197 01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:38,084 thinking, being sold, um... 1198 01:24:38,209 --> 01:24:40,459 No. 1199 01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,584 No, I don't, and you know I don't. 1200 01:24:47,709 --> 01:24:50,709 I've said it in countless interviews. 1201 01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:53,875 Not that I'd read. 1202 01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:58,501 Oh, well, then you haven't read many interviews. 1203 01:24:58,626 --> 01:24:59,874 Maybe that's the problem. 1204 01:24:59,999 --> 01:25:03,209 She represents grandiosity, I think. 1205 01:25:03,334 --> 01:25:05,875 And it is a little comic. 1206 01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:07,875 And there is an aspect of Camp. 1207 01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:09,875 Susan Sontag is Camp. 1208 01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:13,751 Her seriousness is kind of Camp, because it seems a bit 1209 01:25:13,876 --> 01:25:18,542 of a pose, and it's mannered and stylized. 1210 01:25:18,667 --> 01:25:22,875 But that's part of the fun of the package of Susan Sontag. 1211 01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:27,000 ♪ 1212 01:25:31,501 --> 01:25:36,584 MAN: Does any part of you wish that you had earlier focused more 1213 01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:40,667 on writing novels more? 1214 01:25:40,792 --> 01:25:41,875 All of me wishes that. 1215 01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:43,459 [Thud] 1216 01:25:43,584 --> 01:25:44,834 Ha! Don't drop the book, Charlie! 1217 01:25:44,959 --> 01:25:46,125 Yes, isn't that awful? 1218 01:25:46,250 --> 01:25:50,501 I wish... I wish I were just starting now, but what can I do? 1219 01:25:50,626 --> 01:25:54,542 Those essays from the sixties, they were very insolent, 1220 01:25:54,667 --> 01:25:56,875 you know, like a young person's work. 1221 01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:02,667 I wouldn't mind if the essays eventually evaporated. 1222 01:26:02,792 --> 01:26:05,501 I think fiction, I think literature, I think 1223 01:26:05,626 --> 01:26:11,501 narrative is what lasts. 1224 01:26:11,626 --> 01:26:15,501 I do believe that there is such a thing as truth, 1225 01:26:15,626 --> 01:26:19,875 but I prefer the mode in which truth appears in art or 1226 01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:21,874 in literature. 1227 01:26:21,999 --> 01:26:25,874 In literature, a truth is something whose opposite is 1228 01:26:25,999 --> 01:26:27,501 also true. 1229 01:26:27,626 --> 01:26:31,626 ♪ 1230 01:26:34,999 --> 01:26:38,501 The last two novels--one is called "The Volcano Lover," 1231 01:26:38,626 --> 01:26:43,875 and the more recent one is called "In America." 1232 01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,875 I discovered I was a storyteller. 1233 01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:48,875 I felt I could spread my wings. 1234 01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:53,876 I felt I could...I could even be entertaining. 1235 01:26:55,209 --> 01:26:57,875 True, there was still time for something really vivid 1236 01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:59,501 to happen. 1237 01:26:59,626 --> 01:27:02,793 Someone might have a heart attack or whack a dinner 1238 01:27:02,918 --> 01:27:07,042 partner over the head or sob or groan or toss a glass 1239 01:27:07,167 --> 01:27:09,874 of wine in an offending face. 1240 01:27:09,999 --> 01:27:13,709 But this seemed as unlikely as my charging out of my window 1241 01:27:13,834 --> 01:27:17,584 seat to dance on the table or spit in the soup or fondle 1242 01:27:17,709 --> 01:27:20,999 a knee or bite someone's ankle. 1243 01:27:22,626 --> 01:27:27,501 GORDIMER: She wouldn't like to hear this, but her novels were not 1244 01:27:27,626 --> 01:27:32,084 received at the standard at which she wanted. 1245 01:27:32,209 --> 01:27:35,875 Because she was so well known, there was a certain amount 1246 01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:40,501 of attention, and I mean I think it was Gore Vidal who 1247 01:27:40,626 --> 01:27:44,501 wrote that, "as a fiction writer, Susan Sontag has no 1248 01:27:44,626 --> 01:27:46,167 talent whatsoever." 1249 01:27:46,292 --> 01:27:53,875 I mean, it was always these very strong, harsh statements. 1250 01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:57,875 NUNEZ: She did win the National Book Award for "In America." 1251 01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,875 "The Volcano Lover" was a huge critical 1252 01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:04,542 and commercial success. 1253 01:28:04,667 --> 01:28:07,501 Sometimes awards are given in recognition of a career as 1254 01:28:07,626 --> 01:28:11,793 much as the merits of a particular book. 1255 01:28:11,918 --> 01:28:13,501 [Applause] 1256 01:28:13,626 --> 01:28:17,626 ♪ 1257 01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:28,875 But in spite of all these well-earned awards and all her 1258 01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:34,501 accomplishments, a sense of failure clung to her. 1259 01:28:34,626 --> 01:28:36,876 She was not happy. 1260 01:28:38,626 --> 01:28:43,501 CASTLE: She was haunted by a sense that her younger self would 1261 01:28:43,626 --> 01:28:52,875 not have been satisfied...that she hadn't been good enough. 1262 01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:57,875 I think she was terrorized by the fact of her own 1263 01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:05,000 transience, that she, too, would become a part of the past... 1264 01:29:07,626 --> 01:29:12,875 fade to black. 1265 01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,250 [Woman speaking] 1266 01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:18,875 Certainly not. 1267 01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:23,000 ♪ 1268 01:29:33,626 --> 01:29:34,875 MAN: Anne Leibovitz is here. 1269 01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:37,542 She is perhaps the best-known American photographer around. 1270 01:29:37,667 --> 01:29:40,501 She has also published 6 books of her photographs. 1271 01:29:40,626 --> 01:29:43,875 Her most recent one is called "9 Pounds." 1272 01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:48,917 No, it's called "A Photographer's Life, 1990-2005." 1273 01:29:49,042 --> 01:29:51,584 In it, Annie publishes celebrity photographs 1274 01:29:51,709 --> 01:29:53,376 as well as portraits of family members, 1275 01:29:53,501 --> 01:29:55,874 her 3 children, and perhaps the most important 1276 01:29:55,999 --> 01:30:01,501 person in her life, Susan Sontag. 1277 01:30:01,626 --> 01:30:04,501 My gosh, the years that I'm supposed to work on the book, 1278 01:30:04,626 --> 01:30:08,376 1990-2005, are the years I was with Susan. 1279 01:30:08,501 --> 01:30:10,626 I just got very excited because I thought I'm going to 1280 01:30:10,751 --> 01:30:14,000 look at my work as if Susan was standing in back of me, 1281 01:30:14,125 --> 01:30:18,875 you know, as if she was there you know, working with me to put the book together. 1282 01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:23,000 ♪ 1283 01:30:35,542 --> 01:30:38,376 RIELL: My mother had 3 cancers. 1284 01:30:38,501 --> 01:30:42,584 She had a breast cancer when she was in her early 40s. 1285 01:30:42,709 --> 01:30:48,501 When she was in her mid 60s, she had a uterine sarcoma. 1286 01:30:48,626 --> 01:30:50,501 Then 7 years later-- or 6 years later, 1287 01:30:50,626 --> 01:30:54,501 she was diagnosed with this disease, MDS, which is this 1288 01:30:54,626 --> 01:30:56,501 lethal blood cancer. 1289 01:30:56,626 --> 01:31:00,626 ♪ 1290 01:31:02,626 --> 01:31:06,626 COHEN: She needed to have a bone marrow transplant. 1291 01:31:06,751 --> 01:31:09,001 [Speaking French] 1292 01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:20,000 ♪ 1293 01:31:21,834 --> 01:31:24,875 CHILDS: I had just gotten back to the States, and she told me what 1294 01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:27,501 was happening, that she had this leukemia and that it was 1295 01:31:27,626 --> 01:31:30,667 just raging and she was very ill. 1296 01:31:30,792 --> 01:31:35,501 And then she said, "Once I'm over the transplant, maybe you 1297 01:31:35,626 --> 01:31:37,501 would come out at that time." 1298 01:31:37,626 --> 01:31:39,501 She was assuming that the transplant would be successful. 1299 01:31:39,626 --> 01:31:41,501 And she said, "Of course there's a risk because of my age, 1300 01:31:41,626 --> 01:31:42,875 and because of the previous illnesses," 1301 01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:45,874 and so forth and so on. She said, "But it's my only chance." 1302 01:31:45,999 --> 01:31:56,501 If she wanted to believe in... the idea that she would beat 1303 01:31:56,626 --> 01:32:01,874 the odds once more, as she'd done twice in the past with cancer, 1304 01:32:01,999 --> 01:32:05,875 it wasn't for me to stand in the way of that. 1305 01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:10,000 ♪ 1306 01:32:14,584 --> 01:32:17,875 COHEN: We had a conversation. 1307 01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:23,417 She said "You need to tell me what I've done that-- 1308 01:32:23,542 --> 01:32:26,042 how I've wronged you." Ha ha! 1309 01:32:26,167 --> 01:32:30,542 I said, "Well, I'll do it if you'll do the same thing." 1310 01:32:30,667 --> 01:32:35,709 And that's when she told me, you know, this inane wish 1311 01:32:35,834 --> 01:32:39,501 of hers that I'd become an attorney. 1312 01:32:39,626 --> 01:32:43,876 And I thought, well, that's really soft ball. Ha ha! 1313 01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:52,874 I told her the next day that I very much resented the fact 1314 01:32:52,999 --> 01:32:58,501 that she didn't attend our wedding. Ha ha! 1315 01:32:58,626 --> 01:33:04,501 And most of all, I resented that she spent most of her 1316 01:33:04,626 --> 01:33:08,501 life not being honest with me. 1317 01:33:08,626 --> 01:33:12,626 And I think I really did strike home. 1318 01:33:14,042 --> 01:33:18,958 And she admitted--she was sorry she didn't come to the wedding. 1319 01:33:19,083 --> 01:33:23,875 And, uh, she, um... 1320 01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:27,501 said that I was right and she was sorry about that. 1321 01:33:27,626 --> 01:33:31,626 ♪ 1322 01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:36,376 RIELL: My mother was afraid of extinction. 1323 01:33:36,501 --> 01:33:37,917 You are extinguished. 1324 01:33:38,042 --> 01:33:43,876 And I think that's what she felt and I think it terrified her. 1325 01:33:46,626 --> 01:33:54,667 So the way that she decided that she would face it was to 1326 01:33:54,792 --> 01:33:56,501 fight to the last breath. 1327 01:33:56,626 --> 01:33:58,875 Fight, fight, every moment. 1328 01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:03,000 ♪ 1329 01:34:06,125 --> 01:34:08,376 I guess I'm a little like Susan 1330 01:34:08,501 --> 01:34:15,501 in that I always thought she would survive, too. 1331 01:34:15,626 --> 01:34:19,501 RIELL: She had this transplant in the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center 1332 01:34:19,626 --> 01:34:21,125 in Seattle. 1333 01:34:21,250 --> 01:34:24,875 And when the doctors came to tell her it hadn't worked, 1334 01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:26,875 she started to scream. 1335 01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:31,000 ♪ 1336 01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:48,874 LEIBOVITZ: I went to Seattle to bring her home in an air ambulance. 1337 01:34:48,999 --> 01:34:51,999 It was really a harrowing experience. 1338 01:34:53,626 --> 01:34:59,958 KOCH: She then returned to Sloan-Kettering because it was over, 1339 01:35:00,083 --> 01:35:03,000 and she was being sent there to die. 1340 01:35:05,375 --> 01:35:07,209 Um...and she did. 1341 01:35:07,334 --> 01:35:11,626 ♪ 1342 01:35:13,375 --> 01:35:16,874 I immediately went to the hospital and then I 1343 01:35:16,999 --> 01:35:18,209 went in and-- 1344 01:35:18,334 --> 01:35:21,501 and sat with Susan's body for a while, 1345 01:35:21,626 --> 01:35:22,875 quite a while. 1346 01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:27,000 ♪ 1347 01:35:30,501 --> 01:35:32,626 RIELL: If you're interested in everything, if you're curious 1348 01:35:32,751 --> 01:35:34,334 about everything, 1349 01:35:34,459 --> 01:35:36,501 it's a lot harder to die. 1350 01:35:36,626 --> 01:35:40,626 ♪ 1351 01:35:51,626 --> 01:35:57,417 KAPLAN: I saw her one last time way at the end of her life. 1352 01:35:57,542 --> 01:35:59,958 I was walking down the Boulevard St. Germain, 1353 01:36:00,083 --> 01:36:03,501 past the great cafe, The Flore, 1354 01:36:03,626 --> 01:36:10,958 And she was sitting in the front with her notebook, writing. 1355 01:36:11,083 --> 01:36:17,250 Sitting in Paris looking out and writing in her notebook still. 1356 01:36:28,251 --> 01:36:36,251 www.prijevodi-online.org107590

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