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I love being alive.
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I wake up every morning very
grateful that I'm alive.
3
00:00:31,626 --> 00:00:36,376
It's more than enjoyment.
I'm, uh...
4
00:00:36,501 --> 00:00:38,875
I'm very happy to be alive.
5
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,000
♪
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00:00:44,834 --> 00:00:49,501
I began writing when I was
6 or 7 or 8, stories and poems
7
00:00:49,626 --> 00:00:52,000
and plays.
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00:00:52,125 --> 00:00:56,501
It was...yes, it was like
enlisting in an army of saints
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00:00:56,626 --> 00:01:00,000
or something of that sort--it
sounds very foolish--but I
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00:01:00,125 --> 00:01:02,875
didn't feel that I was
expressing myself.
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00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,501
I felt that I was, well,
12
00:01:05,626 --> 00:01:12,542
taking part in a
noble activity.
13
00:01:12,667 --> 00:01:17,709
My mother was very much someone
who was interested in everything.
14
00:01:17,834 --> 00:01:25,874
Intellectual and cultural and
aesthetic and sensual experience.
15
00:01:25,999 --> 00:01:31,292
When I turned 40, I was in
China. When I turned 50,
I was in France.
16
00:01:31,417 --> 00:01:33,875
When I turned 60, I was
in Sarajevo and the bombs
17
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,250
were falling.
18
00:01:38,999 --> 00:01:42,999
Being 70 sounds very awesome.
19
00:01:45,626 --> 00:01:52,501
Despite my two bouts
of cancer, I feel fine.
20
00:01:52,626 --> 00:01:57,000
I feel as if a lot of
things are still ahead.
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00:01:57,125 --> 00:02:01,000
♪
22
00:02:04,999 --> 00:02:07,667
WOMAN: ...one of the country's
most controversial writers
and social critics...
23
00:02:07,792 --> 00:02:09,334
MAN: She was
the relentless campaigner
24
00:02:09,459 --> 00:02:11,875
for human rights
and against war...
25
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,875
MAN: ...the most intelligent
woman in America...
26
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,751
MAN: ...critic, activist,
playwright, essayist...
27
00:02:15,876 --> 00:02:17,874
she wrote 17 books
and won major awards,
28
00:02:17,999 --> 00:02:19,875
including the National
Book Award...
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00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,875
WOMAN: Susan Sontag
was 71 years old.
30
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,000
♪
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00:02:59,626 --> 00:03:01,793
SONTAG:
For the last hundred years
in our society,
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the most interesting writers
have mostly been critics
33
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,501
of the society.
34
00:03:06,626 --> 00:03:09,000
The writer very
often has taken some kind
35
00:03:09,125 --> 00:03:12,000
of adversary position.
36
00:03:12,125 --> 00:03:16,084
I like that
adversary position.
37
00:03:16,209 --> 00:03:18,417
I like the position of
being able to express
38
00:03:18,542 --> 00:03:20,292
dissenting opinions.
39
00:03:20,417 --> 00:03:24,626
♪
40
00:03:30,999 --> 00:03:33,917
WOMAN: Shortly after September
11th, Susan Sontag became one
41
00:03:34,042 --> 00:03:36,376
of the first prominent
Americans to publicly state
42
00:03:36,501 --> 00:03:40,501
the attack was carried out in
response to US foreign policy.
43
00:03:40,626 --> 00:03:42,501
[Sirens]
44
00:03:42,626 --> 00:03:48,126
Sontag writes in the
current issue of the
"New Yorker" magazine...
45
00:04:03,626 --> 00:04:07,917
SONTAG: This sort of
build-up of moralistic
words to describe
46
00:04:08,042 --> 00:04:12,501
this horrendous atrocity was
not helping us to understand
47
00:04:12,626 --> 00:04:14,875
and reach an intelligent
response, political
48
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,875
and military, which I'm
absolutely in favor of.
49
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,875
I'm not a pacifist.
50
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,874
There's so many
opinions around.
51
00:04:20,999 --> 00:04:24,875
And I guess I'm
just a very straight
First Amendment--
52
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,292
strict First Amendment
person.
53
00:04:26,417 --> 00:04:27,874
I want to defend
Ann Coulter.
54
00:04:27,999 --> 00:04:29,501
Well, you're also a very
offensive writer.
55
00:04:29,626 --> 00:04:33,501
You are part of the "Blame
America First" crowd.
56
00:04:33,626 --> 00:04:35,875
You said that we were
to blame for our
foreign policy--
57
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,501
SONTAG: I never said
anything of the kind.
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00:04:37,626 --> 00:04:38,958
Let me--let me just--
59
00:04:39,083 --> 00:04:40,875
I'm just as patriotic
and against the terrorists
as you are.
60
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,875
Well, your version
of patriotism is
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00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,875
blame America,
blame America.
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00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,501
SONTAG: Oh, dear.
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00:04:47,626 --> 00:04:50,874
We have a long
tradition of debate.
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00:04:50,999 --> 00:04:53,501
I'm interested in people
having a historical
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00:04:53,626 --> 00:04:57,376
understanding of
where we are so that
we can better defend
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00:04:57,501 --> 00:04:59,874
ourselves and stop
international terrorism.
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00:04:59,999 --> 00:05:02,042
GAZIANO:
And let's get into
your position...
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00:05:02,167 --> 00:05:06,000
♪
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00:05:08,626 --> 00:05:09,874
WOMAN AS SONTAG:
It is difficult
70
00:05:09,999 --> 00:05:13,626
for the citizens of America,
having never seen their country
71
00:05:13,751 --> 00:05:17,376
devastated by war
to really understand
72
00:05:17,501 --> 00:05:21,501
and appreciate the full
horrors of war.
73
00:05:21,626 --> 00:05:24,542
The battle for peace
will never be won
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00:05:24,667 --> 00:05:29,501
by calling anyone whom we
don't like a Communist.
75
00:05:29,626 --> 00:05:33,584
If we do this, we shall
someday realize that,
76
00:05:33,709 --> 00:05:37,667
in the effort to preserve
our democratic way of life,
77
00:05:37,792 --> 00:05:41,874
we have thrown away its
noblest feature--the right
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00:05:41,999 --> 00:05:46,000
of every person to
express his own opinion.
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00:05:49,626 --> 00:05:53,626
♪
80
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:12,083
MAN: Everyone who knew us knew
I was totally in love with her.
81
00:06:13,375 --> 00:06:17,000
We never dated but we
were always together.
82
00:06:19,751 --> 00:06:22,874
She gave me the first
academic lecture of my life.
83
00:06:22,999 --> 00:06:30,501
She sat me down on her bed
and ran through the argument
84
00:06:30,626 --> 00:06:32,376
of the "Critique
of Pure Reason,"
85
00:06:32,501 --> 00:06:34,875
Kant's "Critique
of Pure Reason."
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00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:41,793
She must have been 15.
87
00:06:41,918 --> 00:06:45,501
WOMAN AS SONTAG:
In Los Angeles, I tracked
down a real bookstore,
88
00:06:45,626 --> 00:06:49,292
the first of my
bookstore-besotted life:
89
00:06:49,417 --> 00:06:52,667
The Pickwick on
Hollywood Boulevard,
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00:06:52,792 --> 00:06:55,875
where I went every few days
after school, buying when I
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00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,501
could, stealing when I dared.
92
00:07:00,626 --> 00:07:01,875
I had to acquire them,
93
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,874
see them in rows along the
wall of my tiny bedroom.
94
00:07:06,999 --> 00:07:12,501
My household deities,
my spaceships.
95
00:07:12,626 --> 00:07:16,626
♪
96
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,875
HAIDU: In '48, I graduated
from high school.
97
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,584
Sue had another semester
of high school to do...
98
00:07:27,709 --> 00:07:29,875
and in the second semester,
she went up to Berkeley.
99
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,501
[Bell tolls]
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00:07:31,626 --> 00:07:34,501
SONTAG: And the very first day,
I was standing on line
101
00:07:34,626 --> 00:07:38,874
registering for a class,
and I heard somebody
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00:07:38,999 --> 00:07:41,584
ahead of me say, "Proust."
103
00:07:41,709 --> 00:07:45,501
And I thought, "Oh, my God.
It's pronounced Proost."
104
00:07:45,626 --> 00:07:47,958
I thought it was
"Prowst." Ha ha!
105
00:07:48,083 --> 00:07:49,709
And then I thought,
"I'm home.
106
00:07:49,834 --> 00:07:51,875
"I've reached a place
where somebody else has read
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00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,875
the books that I have read."
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It was freedom.
109
00:07:56,626 --> 00:07:58,167
It was like escape.
110
00:07:58,292 --> 00:08:02,626
♪
111
00:08:06,626 --> 00:08:08,501
[Trolley bell clangs]
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WOMAN: Drag.
113
00:08:10,459 --> 00:08:11,958
Go In Drag.
114
00:08:12,083 --> 00:08:14,958
A Drag Party.
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00:08:15,083 --> 00:08:16,292
Straight.
116
00:08:16,417 --> 00:08:17,584
East.
117
00:08:17,709 --> 00:08:18,874
Jam.
118
00:08:18,999 --> 00:08:20,874
West.
119
00:08:20,999 --> 00:08:23,000
Act Swishy.
120
00:08:23,125 --> 00:08:25,375
I'm Swished tonight.
121
00:08:27,751 --> 00:08:33,667
This is a list of slang that
Susan learned when I took her
122
00:08:33,792 --> 00:08:37,501
to San Francisco to
learn about the world
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00:08:37,626 --> 00:08:39,292
of gay people.
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00:08:39,417 --> 00:08:42,501
[Bells chiming]
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00:08:42,626 --> 00:08:45,751
This is '48, and I'm going
to Berkeley and I'm working
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00:08:45,876 --> 00:08:48,917
at the Campus Text Book
Exchange, which was staffed
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00:08:49,042 --> 00:08:53,042
entirely by gay boys and me.
128
00:08:53,167 --> 00:08:57,459
And then Susan came in the
door one day to buy a book.
129
00:08:57,584 --> 00:09:01,376
She was absolutely
overwhelmingly gorgeous.
130
00:09:01,501 --> 00:09:05,874
She walked in, and he said
to me, "Go get her." Ha ha!
131
00:09:05,999 --> 00:09:11,167
So I went.
132
00:09:11,292 --> 00:09:12,875
[Horns honking]
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00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:18,501
WOMAN AS SONTAG:
First we went to the 299, then
to 12 Adler where we met Bruce
134
00:09:18,626 --> 00:09:22,667
and went with him to
a homosexual bar.
135
00:09:22,792 --> 00:09:25,501
The singer was a very tall
and beautiful blonde
136
00:09:25,626 --> 00:09:27,626
in a strapless evening gown.
137
00:09:27,751 --> 00:09:30,501
[Wolf whistling]
138
00:09:30,626 --> 00:09:35,209
I wondered about her
remarkably powerful voice.
139
00:09:35,334 --> 00:09:37,917
Harriet had to tell me
she was a man.
140
00:09:38,042 --> 00:09:42,000
♪
141
00:09:44,334 --> 00:09:48,542
ZWERLING: And then I took her to
Peggy's Bar, and that was the
142
00:09:48,667 --> 00:09:54,501
night we both got very drunk
and we started making out
together, and she was wild.
143
00:09:54,626 --> 00:09:56,875
I mean, she was so...
144
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,667
she was so naive
and so innocent.
145
00:09:59,792 --> 00:10:01,667
She'd never had
any kind of sex.
146
00:10:01,792 --> 00:10:04,501
She probably necked with boys
in high school, but I mean it
147
00:10:04,626 --> 00:10:07,334
was not anything
real, you know,
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00:10:07,459 --> 00:10:14,417
because men left her cold.
149
00:10:14,542 --> 00:10:17,292
WOMAN AS SONTAG:
I know the truth now.
150
00:10:17,417 --> 00:10:21,125
I know how good and
right it is to love.
151
00:10:21,250 --> 00:10:25,333
I have in some part been
given permission to live.
152
00:10:27,626 --> 00:10:31,000
Everything begins from now.
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I am reborn.
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00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,000
♪
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00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,751
ZWERLING: And then I left.
156
00:10:44,876 --> 00:10:46,874
I went to Paris.
157
00:10:46,999 --> 00:10:49,249
Susan went to Chicago.
158
00:10:51,417 --> 00:10:58,999
HAIDU: How Sue became
Susan Sontag led
through Philip Rieff.
159
00:11:00,375 --> 00:11:03,626
I was assigned to Philip Rieff's
social science class
160
00:11:03,751 --> 00:11:06,417
at the University of Chicago.
161
00:11:06,542 --> 00:11:10,209
After, I think, 2 or 3 weeks,
I called her and said,
162
00:11:10,334 --> 00:11:12,667
"You've got to
go hear this guy.
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00:11:12,792 --> 00:11:18,334
He's a brilliant lecturer
who manages to put together
Freud and Marx."
164
00:11:18,459 --> 00:11:22,874
So she went, and
apparently 10 days later
they were engaged.
165
00:11:22,999 --> 00:11:24,875
Um, that was not
my recommendation.
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00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,000
♪
167
00:11:33,501 --> 00:11:37,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
At 17, I met a thin,
heavy-thighed balding man who
168
00:11:37,626 --> 00:11:42,125
talked and talked, snobbishly,
bookishly, and called
169
00:11:42,250 --> 00:11:44,500
me "Sweet."
170
00:11:45,584 --> 00:11:49,000
After a few days,
I married him.
171
00:11:52,542 --> 00:11:54,792
We talked for 7 years.
172
00:12:00,417 --> 00:12:02,874
WOMAN: It was
a very small wedding.
173
00:12:02,999 --> 00:12:07,249
We went afterwards to Bob's
Big Boy for a hamburger.
174
00:12:09,501 --> 00:12:11,875
She and I were
giggling a little.
175
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,292
That I remember, that we just
each caught the other's eye
176
00:12:16,417 --> 00:12:17,834
and that was it.
177
00:12:17,959 --> 00:12:21,626
♪
178
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,501
When I visited them in
Cambridge, they seemed totally
179
00:12:30,626 --> 00:12:33,793
close, inseparable.
180
00:12:33,918 --> 00:12:39,501
How much of it was intellectual,
and how much was not?
181
00:12:39,626 --> 00:12:41,751
I mean,
there had to have been,
182
00:12:41,876 --> 00:12:45,874
at some point, some physical
attraction somewhere,
183
00:12:45,999 --> 00:12:48,751
and they certainly
acted like there was.
184
00:12:48,876 --> 00:12:56,874
They were just really kind
of like they were one person.
185
00:12:56,999 --> 00:12:59,958
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
I had a difficult birth.
186
00:13:00,083 --> 00:13:02,584
David was big.
187
00:13:02,709 --> 00:13:05,501
A lot of pain.
188
00:13:05,626 --> 00:13:07,875
I wanted to be knocked out,
189
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,875
not to know anything.
190
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,000
♪
191
00:13:36,501 --> 00:13:38,751
[Woman, as Sontag]
192
00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,083
♪
193
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,042
If only I get the fellowship
to Oxford, then at least I'll
194
00:14:09,167 --> 00:14:13,501
know if I'm anything
outside the domestic stage,
195
00:14:13,626 --> 00:14:15,876
The feathered nest.
196
00:14:19,334 --> 00:14:24,501
I think for a while it was
just really fine, but people
197
00:14:24,626 --> 00:14:27,834
change in their marriages,
and obviously she did.
198
00:14:27,959 --> 00:14:32,626
He did not.
199
00:14:32,751 --> 00:14:38,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
In marriage, I have suffered
a certain loss of personality.
200
00:14:38,626 --> 00:14:44,501
At first the loss was
pleasant, easy; now it aches
201
00:14:44,626 --> 00:14:49,417
and stirs up my general
disposition to be malcontented
202
00:14:49,542 --> 00:14:51,875
with a new fierceness.
203
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,000
♪
204
00:14:59,876 --> 00:15:03,501
Just got the fellowship.
205
00:15:03,626 --> 00:15:05,875
Study philosophy in Oxford.
206
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,000
♪
207
00:15:13,792 --> 00:15:17,501
WOMAN: She had made
arrangements for her
husband's parents to take
208
00:15:17,626 --> 00:15:19,250
care of the child.
209
00:15:19,375 --> 00:15:23,167
But to today's parents,
it's just unthinkable.
210
00:15:23,292 --> 00:15:26,667
Because she was so young when
she had her child, she hadn't
211
00:15:26,792 --> 00:15:30,209
been able to live out
her own adolescence.
212
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,501
I think she just wanted to
do what she wanted to do.
213
00:15:35,626 --> 00:15:39,875
And you know, it's...that's
really all there is to it.
214
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,000
♪
215
00:15:54,626 --> 00:15:56,876
[Woman, as Sontag]
216
00:16:01,709 --> 00:16:04,874
Je l'aime beaucoup is
more than je l'aime bien
217
00:16:04,999 --> 00:16:07,249
but less than je l'aime.
218
00:16:09,626 --> 00:16:12,667
I like Paris--stronger,
more reserved.
219
00:16:12,792 --> 00:16:14,875
J'aime Paris.
220
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,250
I like Paris.
221
00:16:18,999 --> 00:16:24,542
ZWERLING: The end of '57,
she came to Paris
at Christmas from Oxford
222
00:16:24,667 --> 00:16:27,334
and she stayed,
223
00:16:27,459 --> 00:16:32,874
and we started living
together in a hotel.
224
00:16:32,999 --> 00:16:37,584
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
Harriet is beautiful,
relaxed, affectionate.
225
00:16:37,709 --> 00:16:43,875
I, dizzy with passion and
need for her, am happy.
226
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:50,501
Good God, I am happy!
227
00:16:50,626 --> 00:16:55,376
ZWERLING:
We gave a big party, and the
night before the big party,
228
00:16:55,501 --> 00:16:59,874
we had a lesbian couple over
to visit, but we drank a lot
229
00:16:59,999 --> 00:17:03,501
and we smoked a lot of grass
and things started getting
230
00:17:03,626 --> 00:17:09,709
a little sexy, and Susan got
into it a little too much,
231
00:17:09,834 --> 00:17:13,834
and I got very jealous and
punched her in the face.
232
00:17:13,959 --> 00:17:19,334
The next day was our big party
with all the American ex-pats,
233
00:17:19,459 --> 00:17:20,874
the Beats.
234
00:17:20,999 --> 00:17:24,501
Ginsberg and Corso and all
those people were coming.
235
00:17:24,626 --> 00:17:27,167
And Ginsberg came over
to me at one point.
236
00:17:27,292 --> 00:17:30,667
Susan had this big
black-and-blue mark on her jaw.
237
00:17:30,792 --> 00:17:33,501
And he said to me,
"Why'd you hit her?
238
00:17:33,626 --> 00:17:35,874
She's younger and
prettier than you."
239
00:17:35,999 --> 00:17:38,874
And I said, "That's why."
Ha! So...
240
00:17:38,999 --> 00:17:42,542
I was, at that time,
the assistant,
241
00:17:42,667 --> 00:17:45,874
to a director named
Pierre Kast.
242
00:17:45,999 --> 00:17:49,501
Susan was having
money problems,
243
00:17:49,626 --> 00:17:54,000
and I offered her a walk-on
in this film.
244
00:17:58,334 --> 00:18:02,501
It's just so funny to think of
Sontag being in a New Wave film
245
00:18:02,626 --> 00:18:05,501
since she's going to
go on to make New Wave film
246
00:18:05,626 --> 00:18:12,501
something very, very
important in the U.S.
247
00:18:12,626 --> 00:18:15,501
She is somebody who is
constantly being reborn.
248
00:18:15,626 --> 00:18:19,084
I mean it wasn't just from
being in France or from making
249
00:18:19,209 --> 00:18:20,626
love with Harriet.
250
00:18:20,751 --> 00:18:23,501
She was constantly discovering
things and becoming
251
00:18:23,626 --> 00:18:24,875
a new person.
252
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,584
And that's her kind of
essential avant-gardism.
253
00:18:28,709 --> 00:18:33,126
You can either suspect it
or really, really admire it.
254
00:18:34,792 --> 00:18:43,167
I see Paris as getting her
out of her marriage.
255
00:18:43,292 --> 00:18:47,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
The thought of going back to
my old life...it hardly seems
256
00:18:47,626 --> 00:18:51,417
like a dilemma anymore.
257
00:18:51,542 --> 00:18:54,417
I can't.
258
00:18:54,542 --> 00:18:56,792
I won't.
259
00:18:58,042 --> 00:19:00,874
Susan had her year
or whatever it was,
260
00:19:00,999 --> 00:19:07,292
came home, and said,
"That's it."
261
00:19:07,417 --> 00:19:09,709
It was not a really
pleasant divorce.
262
00:19:09,834 --> 00:19:13,626
♪
263
00:19:18,042 --> 00:19:20,874
WOMAN: College at 15.
Marriage at 17?
264
00:19:20,999 --> 00:19:22,042
SONTAG: Yes.
265
00:19:22,167 --> 00:19:23,501
A child at...
19.
266
00:19:23,626 --> 00:19:24,874
Yeah.
267
00:19:24,999 --> 00:19:27,501
These numbers
suggest what?
268
00:19:27,626 --> 00:19:31,209
Eagerness to grow up.
269
00:19:31,334 --> 00:19:33,167
I hated being a child.
270
00:19:33,292 --> 00:19:35,501
I couldn't do what
I wanted to do.
271
00:19:35,626 --> 00:19:37,501
I wanted to stay up
all night.
272
00:19:37,626 --> 00:19:39,874
I wanted to see the world.
273
00:19:39,999 --> 00:19:41,874
I wanted to
talk to people.
274
00:19:41,999 --> 00:19:45,626
I wanted to meet people who
were interested in what
I was interested in.
275
00:19:45,751 --> 00:19:49,626
♪
276
00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:56,501
My parents lived abroad.
They lived in China.
277
00:19:56,626 --> 00:19:59,626
My father was a
businessman in China.
278
00:20:00,417 --> 00:20:03,793
They came back to the
United States for my birth
279
00:20:03,918 --> 00:20:07,417
and for that of my
younger sister.
280
00:20:07,542 --> 00:20:13,501
Then they left us with
various relatives.
281
00:20:13,626 --> 00:20:19,834
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
Milk with vanilla flavor in it
and peanut butter crackers.
282
00:20:19,959 --> 00:20:24,000
The egg timer on the
wall in the kitchen.
283
00:20:24,125 --> 00:20:27,751
Betting 25 cents on the
world series with Gramps.
284
00:20:27,876 --> 00:20:31,000
I for the Yanks,
he for The Bums.
285
00:20:32,999 --> 00:20:38,626
From my upper bunk, testing
Judith on the capitals
of all the states.
286
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:51,875
Daddy died
October 19, 1938.
287
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,125
COHEN: He fell ill
for the last time
288
00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:58,792
and died in China of
tuberculosis.
289
00:21:01,250 --> 00:21:03,875
SONTAG: My father died
so far away and without
my knowing it.
290
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,667
I didn't even know
he was dead until about
a year after.
291
00:21:09,626 --> 00:21:14,709
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
I didn't really believe
my father was dead.
292
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,875
For years and years, I
dreamed he turned up one day
293
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,250
at the door.
294
00:21:26,250 --> 00:21:30,000
♪
295
00:21:31,751 --> 00:21:33,501
When I was 6,
my sister was 3,
296
00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:35,958
we ended up with my
mother, who was very
297
00:21:36,083 --> 00:21:40,501
much a part-time mother
in Tucson, Arizona.
298
00:21:40,626 --> 00:21:46,501
COHEN: Our mother, Mildred,
didn't focus totally on us.
299
00:21:46,626 --> 00:21:51,334
Let me put it this way. We had
a lot of uncles who were not
300
00:21:51,459 --> 00:21:53,501
our uncles.
301
00:21:53,626 --> 00:22:00,667
And they just kind
of came and went.
302
00:22:00,792 --> 00:22:04,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
I wasn't my mother's child.
303
00:22:04,626 --> 00:22:07,501
I was her subject, companion,
304
00:22:07,626 --> 00:22:10,874
friend, consort.
305
00:22:10,999 --> 00:22:15,875
My habit of "holding back"
is loyalty to my mother.
306
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,000
♪
307
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,334
SONTAG: My mother met a very
glamorous war veteran,
308
00:22:27,459 --> 00:22:30,501
full of medals and shrapnel.
309
00:22:30,626 --> 00:22:32,875
He had been shot down
6 days after D-Day and was
310
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,875
convalescing in Tucson.
311
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,250
And his name was Sontag.
312
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,000
COHEN: They just went to Mexico
one day, and they came back
313
00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:43,875
and they said,
"We're married."
314
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,584
Susan and I were extremely
hurt that we weren't invited
315
00:22:47,709 --> 00:22:50,209
to go to Mexico
to the wedding.
316
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,875
We were delighted to have
a change in name.
317
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,125
We were so clearly identified
as being Jewish with a name
318
00:22:59,250 --> 00:23:03,501
like Rosenblatt that my sister
who was older and I guess
319
00:23:03,626 --> 00:23:09,792
an easier target did get hit
in the head and called names.
320
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,875
From Tucson, we moved to
Southern California and ended up
321
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,501
in Sherman Oaks
in the valley.
322
00:23:20,626 --> 00:23:25,875
SONTAG, VOICE-OVER:
I can remember a rather
small house, very modest.
323
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,874
And I was lying on my stomach
in the living room and I
324
00:23:28,999 --> 00:23:30,376
was reading.
325
00:23:30,501 --> 00:23:34,874
And then this large pair of
pants and shoes walked by me,
326
00:23:34,999 --> 00:23:37,542
and it was of course
Mr. Sontag.
327
00:23:37,667 --> 00:23:40,875
He said "Sue, if you read
so much, you'll never
328
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,874
get married."
329
00:23:42,999 --> 00:23:44,793
And I burst out laughing.
330
00:23:44,918 --> 00:23:47,000
I thought this was the most
preposterous thing I ever heard,
331
00:23:47,125 --> 00:23:49,501
because it never
occurred to me that I would
332
00:23:49,626 --> 00:23:53,167
want to marry someone who
didn't like someone who
read a lot of books.
333
00:23:53,292 --> 00:23:57,626
♪
334
00:23:59,918 --> 00:24:02,168
[Sontag speaking French]
335
00:24:30,626 --> 00:24:34,626
♪
336
00:24:49,626 --> 00:24:51,876
[Man speaking French]
337
00:25:08,876 --> 00:25:11,126
[Speaking French]
338
00:25:19,626 --> 00:25:21,876
[Speaking French]
339
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
The truth is always something
that is told, not something
340
00:25:42,626 --> 00:25:44,793
that is known.
341
00:25:44,918 --> 00:25:48,626
If there were no speaking or
writing, there would be no
342
00:25:48,751 --> 00:25:51,501
truth about anything.
343
00:25:51,626 --> 00:25:59,584
There would only be what is.
344
00:25:59,709 --> 00:26:01,584
She gave me a
copy of the book,
345
00:26:01,709 --> 00:26:03,376
signed to me and the baby.
346
00:26:03,501 --> 00:26:05,292
It's back here somewhere.
"The Benefactor."
347
00:26:05,417 --> 00:26:06,874
That's her first novel.
348
00:26:06,999 --> 00:26:08,125
It's awful.
349
00:26:08,250 --> 00:26:13,875
"TIME" magazine reviewer for
"The Benefactor" in 1963 said it
350
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,875
sounded like a blurred
translation from some
351
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,501
other language.
352
00:26:18,626 --> 00:26:22,875
All interesting writers now
have been touched in some way
353
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,000
by this search for new forms
or trying to do something
354
00:26:27,125 --> 00:26:30,874
with the story or with
narration in one way or another.
355
00:26:30,999 --> 00:26:33,501
That nobody's really
writing straight stories.
356
00:26:33,626 --> 00:26:38,125
Sontag really opted
out of realism.
357
00:26:38,250 --> 00:26:40,874
Very abstract,
philosophical prose.
358
00:26:40,999 --> 00:26:43,084
That's what she was going for.
359
00:26:43,209 --> 00:26:46,501
And I think she fashioned
herself as being both
360
00:26:46,626 --> 00:26:47,875
a theorist and a
fiction writer.
361
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,042
Always wanted the
double identity.
362
00:26:50,167 --> 00:26:53,874
That's why I find "The
Benefactor" a really brave book
363
00:26:53,999 --> 00:26:56,875
even though it's a bad novel.
364
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,000
♪
365
00:27:05,626 --> 00:27:09,875
ZWERLING: I started feeling very
lonely, and it was winter.
366
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,875
Winter is awful in Paris.
367
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,626
Susan was living in
New York already.
368
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,501
I just had the idea--maybe
I should go back to New York
369
00:27:21,626 --> 00:27:24,501
for a while and
see what it's like.
370
00:27:24,626 --> 00:27:28,626
♪
371
00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:33,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG: There has
appeared in New York recently
372
00:27:33,626 --> 00:27:38,626
a new and still esoteric
genre of spectacle--
373
00:27:38,751 --> 00:27:42,501
at first sight, apparently
a cross between art exhibit
374
00:27:42,626 --> 00:27:44,875
and theatrical performance.
375
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,459
These events have been given
the modest and somewhat
376
00:27:48,584 --> 00:27:57,501
teasing name of "Happenings".
377
00:27:57,626 --> 00:28:01,874
ZWERLING: Susan was living on
West End Avenue with her son.
378
00:28:01,999 --> 00:28:07,875
And I moved in with her,
and she met Irene Fornes.
379
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,875
Irene and I had been
involved before.
380
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,501
I really loved her,
381
00:28:14,626 --> 00:28:17,501
but we had broken up already.
382
00:28:17,626 --> 00:28:22,042
Anyway, concerning Susan,
383
00:28:22,167 --> 00:28:25,875
things were going on
that I didn't quite get.
384
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:31,042
I'd be there with David,
putting David to bed and she'd
385
00:28:31,167 --> 00:28:36,501
come home, like, 3:00 in the
morning, reeking of Mitsouko
386
00:28:36,626 --> 00:28:40,501
which is a wonderful perfume
of Guerlain, which I had
387
00:28:40,626 --> 00:28:44,126
given to Irene,
and I didn't pick up on it.
388
00:28:45,626 --> 00:28:47,917
Irene was her best lover.
389
00:28:48,042 --> 00:28:52,875
As I've said to many people,
Irene could make a stone come.
390
00:28:54,626 --> 00:28:56,793
I mean, she was
just incredible.
391
00:28:56,918 --> 00:29:01,501
With Irene, you had a real
functioning creative artist.
392
00:29:01,626 --> 00:29:05,834
A part of the downtown
Bohemia of her time.
393
00:29:05,959 --> 00:29:09,834
Susan discovered the
brilliance of talent as
394
00:29:09,959 --> 00:29:12,626
opposed to the
brilliance of intellect.
395
00:29:12,751 --> 00:29:16,542
There were these remarkable
people who didn't know
396
00:29:16,667 --> 00:29:21,501
anything about the issues that
were so important to her,
397
00:29:21,626 --> 00:29:22,958
who had never read Nietzsche,
398
00:29:23,083 --> 00:29:27,584
who can't spell or
pronounce his name.
399
00:29:27,709 --> 00:29:30,875
That was a jolt for her
and a liberating one.
400
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,000
♪
401
00:29:40,999 --> 00:29:45,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
What I love; what draws me
very much to writing is it's
402
00:29:45,626 --> 00:29:48,875
a way of paying attention
to the world.
403
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,751
You're just an instrument for
tuning in to as much reality
404
00:29:52,876 --> 00:29:54,501
as you can.
405
00:29:54,626 --> 00:29:58,626
♪
406
00:30:01,209 --> 00:30:05,917
KOCH: I met Susan
right around the time
that "Notes on Camp" hit
407
00:30:06,042 --> 00:30:09,501
and transformed her position.
408
00:30:09,626 --> 00:30:12,542
WOMAN: Sontag was an iron lady.
409
00:30:12,667 --> 00:30:16,874
She was imperious,
magisterial, authoritative.
410
00:30:16,999 --> 00:30:18,376
"Here is what Camp is.
411
00:30:18,501 --> 00:30:20,626
"No one's ever thought about
it before, and I'll tell you
412
00:30:20,751 --> 00:30:22,874
what it is."
413
00:30:22,999 --> 00:30:27,626
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
The two pioneering forces of
modern sensibility are Jewish
414
00:30:27,751 --> 00:30:31,501
moral seriousness
and homosexual aestheticism
415
00:30:31,626 --> 00:30:33,209
and irony.
416
00:30:33,334 --> 00:30:37,626
♪
417
00:30:44,626 --> 00:30:51,542
KOCH: Here was the possibility
of this gay trash coming forward
418
00:30:51,667 --> 00:30:54,501
and claiming a
position for itself.
419
00:30:54,626 --> 00:31:00,084
Moving away from supposed high
seriousness to low seriousness
420
00:31:00,209 --> 00:31:05,501
was seen as a very threatening
thing to a certain generation.
421
00:31:05,626 --> 00:31:07,999
It was a watershed moment.
422
00:31:09,626 --> 00:31:13,874
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
The essence of Camp is
its love of the unnatural,
423
00:31:13,999 --> 00:31:19,542
of artifice and
exaggeration.
424
00:31:19,667 --> 00:31:23,875
The most refined form of sexual
attractiveness, as well as the
425
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,417
most refined form of sexual
pleasure consists in going
426
00:31:28,542 --> 00:31:32,000
against the grain
of one's sex.
427
00:31:34,083 --> 00:31:38,793
KOCH: She's not making a big
theoretical argument.
428
00:31:38,918 --> 00:31:41,874
She's saying "Look at this,
look at that, look at this,
429
00:31:41,999 --> 00:31:45,501
look at that", and by the time
you're through, something's
430
00:31:45,626 --> 00:31:47,876
been opened up to you.
431
00:31:48,459 --> 00:31:52,417
You don't have to be
Schoenberg. You could be
432
00:31:52,542 --> 00:31:56,042
Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire
and it could be good.
433
00:31:56,167 --> 00:32:03,250
Maybe it's so bad
that it's good!
434
00:32:03,375 --> 00:32:05,875
The idea of Camp was something
absolutely unknown to
435
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,376
straight people.
436
00:32:08,501 --> 00:32:12,334
Really what Camp
was was a code.
437
00:32:14,417 --> 00:32:16,626
NELSON: She's saying "I'm a
cultural ethnographer.
438
00:32:16,751 --> 00:32:20,501
"I've gone into this strange
land of queers and I know
439
00:32:20,626 --> 00:32:23,875
"something about them but I'm
not the native informant.
440
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,501
"I'm the outsider who's gone in
to study them with a certain
441
00:32:27,626 --> 00:32:31,293
kind of scrupulousness,
but I'm not of them."
442
00:32:31,709 --> 00:32:33,875
You could just read between
the lines. Of course she was
443
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,501
paying attention to gay lingo.
444
00:32:35,626 --> 00:32:37,376
She couldn't have written
"Notes on Camp" if she hadn't
445
00:32:37,501 --> 00:32:39,125
done decades of homework.
446
00:32:39,250 --> 00:32:40,875
Honestly.
447
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,000
♪
448
00:32:47,417 --> 00:32:51,875
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
My desire to write is
connected to my homosexuality.
449
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,667
I need the identity as a
weapon to match the weapon
450
00:32:55,792 --> 00:32:58,125
that society has against me.
451
00:33:01,626 --> 00:33:07,000
I am just becoming aware of
how guilty I feel being queer.
452
00:33:14,918 --> 00:33:19,917
The photograph of her
on "I, Etcetera"
was a sort of pin-up
453
00:33:20,042 --> 00:33:25,501
for every graduate school
lesbian that I knew.
454
00:33:25,626 --> 00:33:27,874
It was just magnificent.
455
00:33:27,999 --> 00:33:33,875
And you felt sort of like
ohhh...it's school girlish
456
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,459
to respond in this way
to the photograph,
457
00:33:37,584 --> 00:33:39,709
especially cause
she won't come out.
458
00:33:39,834 --> 00:33:43,626
♪
459
00:33:44,999 --> 00:33:48,875
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
No matter what I
have said, my life,
460
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,875
my actions say that I have
not loved the truth,
461
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,000
that I have not
wanted the truth.
462
00:34:01,751 --> 00:34:05,501
CASTLE: I distinctly
remember people saying,
"Well, she should just--
463
00:34:05,626 --> 00:34:07,875
"she should come out.
464
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,874
She is just
letting us all down."
465
00:34:10,999 --> 00:34:15,501
This is a completely unfair--
first of all, to me,
466
00:34:15,626 --> 00:34:17,501
it's an unfair thing
to say about anyone.
467
00:34:17,626 --> 00:34:20,459
At fir--I--and this is
an age thing.
468
00:34:20,584 --> 00:34:23,417
To someone my age, this seems
to me like a private thing.
469
00:34:23,542 --> 00:34:24,874
Why is it a private thing?
470
00:34:24,999 --> 00:34:26,501
Because for someone my age,
for most of your life, it had
471
00:34:26,626 --> 00:34:27,875
to be a secret thing.
472
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,501
In "The Benefactor," her first
novel, in 1963, she has
473
00:34:31,626 --> 00:34:35,084
the following sentence: "I am
a homosexual and a writer,
474
00:34:35,209 --> 00:34:36,874
"both of whom are
professionally
475
00:34:36,999 --> 00:34:40,875
self-regarding and
self-esteeming creatures."
476
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,875
Does the author of "Notes
on Camp" have to come out?
477
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,000
♪
478
00:34:52,626 --> 00:34:56,667
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
To interpret is to impoverish--
479
00:34:56,792 --> 00:34:59,874
to deplete the world in order
to set up a shadow world
480
00:34:59,999 --> 00:35:02,917
of meanings.
481
00:35:03,042 --> 00:35:06,376
The aim of all commentary on
art should be to make works
482
00:35:06,501 --> 00:35:09,875
of art and our own experience
more, rather than
483
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,501
less real to us.
484
00:35:13,626 --> 00:35:16,376
We need an erotics of art.
485
00:35:16,501 --> 00:35:20,626
♪
486
00:35:35,375 --> 00:35:37,084
MAN: "The lady swings.
487
00:35:37,209 --> 00:35:41,501
"She digs the Supremes and
is savvy about Camp.
488
00:35:41,626 --> 00:35:45,875
"She likes her hair wild
and her sentences intense.
489
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,501
"Miss Sontag has written
a ponderable, vivacious
490
00:35:49,626 --> 00:35:53,000
and quite astonishingly
American book."
491
00:35:55,667 --> 00:35:58,667
KOCH: Susan was a star.
492
00:35:58,792 --> 00:36:01,709
It was certainly not
just her ideas.
493
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,000
She had gone from being a
rising figure of obvious
494
00:36:07,125 --> 00:36:12,084
interest to being suddenly
this famous writer.
495
00:36:12,209 --> 00:36:14,501
Boom--there would be
something by Susan, and it
496
00:36:14,626 --> 00:36:19,501
leapt out...and it wasn't
because of anything other than
497
00:36:19,626 --> 00:36:22,000
its literary star quality.
498
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,501
Style was a huge
part of her work.
499
00:36:26,626 --> 00:36:30,501
And style--her style as a
writer was inseparable from
500
00:36:30,626 --> 00:36:32,501
her style as a person.
501
00:36:32,626 --> 00:36:34,875
She was beautiful
and glamorous.
502
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,459
There's no question
about that.
503
00:36:36,584 --> 00:36:39,875
And she was very conscious of
the effect she had on people.
504
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,958
Now, Susan, smile.
Ha ha ha!
505
00:36:43,083 --> 00:36:44,874
Say cheese.
506
00:36:44,999 --> 00:36:47,875
KOCH: Susan was,
among other things,
507
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,501
tremendously photogenic...
508
00:36:50,626 --> 00:36:52,542
and knew it.
509
00:36:52,667 --> 00:36:54,875
Just what
you're doing.
510
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,501
Tell me
when it starts.
511
00:36:56,626 --> 00:36:59,751
Yes, I'll tell you
when it starts.
512
00:36:59,876 --> 00:37:03,875
Whenever I read about her,
there's almost always a phrase:
513
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,501
"One of the most
photographed women
of her generation,"
514
00:37:06,626 --> 00:37:10,501
like this is some
sort of accident of
nature, like an earthquake.
515
00:37:10,626 --> 00:37:13,167
She knew the power
of photography.
516
00:37:13,292 --> 00:37:19,501
So she created that image,
and it worked.
517
00:37:19,626 --> 00:37:24,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
Being photographed, I
feel transfixed, trapped.
518
00:37:24,626 --> 00:37:26,875
I become the looked at.
519
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,875
For as much as I am a
professional see-er, I am
520
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,875
a hopelessly amateur see-ee,
521
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,875
an eternal photographic
virgin.
522
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,875
I feel the same perplexity
each time I am photographed.
523
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,000
♪
524
00:37:51,375 --> 00:37:55,875
[Audience murmuring
and laughing]
525
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,501
I don't like being called
a "lady writer," Norman.
526
00:37:58,626 --> 00:38:00,875
I know it does--it seems
like gallantry to you,
527
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,376
but it doesn't
feel right to us.
528
00:38:04,501 --> 00:38:06,292
It's a little better to
be called a woman writer.
529
00:38:06,417 --> 00:38:07,875
I don't know why, but,
you know, words count.
530
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,292
We're all writers,
we know that.
531
00:38:09,417 --> 00:38:10,709
[Audience member
shouts]
532
00:38:10,834 --> 00:38:13,584
Well, how about a woman
doctor, a woman lawyer?
533
00:38:13,709 --> 00:38:15,874
Yeah, I mean, if you were
introducing James Baldwin,
534
00:38:15,999 --> 00:38:18,084
you wouldn't say our
foremost Negro writer.
535
00:38:18,209 --> 00:38:19,501
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
Man writer!
536
00:38:19,626 --> 00:38:21,000
And we certainly
wouldn't say a man writer.
537
00:38:21,125 --> 00:38:23,875
And so a lot of it,
a lot of it--
538
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,875
WOMAN: A gentleman writer!
539
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,874
[Laughter and applause]
540
00:38:29,999 --> 00:38:31,084
MAILER: Susan. Susan--
541
00:38:31,209 --> 00:38:33,501
No, I really ask you
this not in an
argumentative spir--
542
00:38:33,626 --> 00:38:36,874
I will never use the word
"lady" again in public.
543
00:38:36,999 --> 00:38:38,709
[Applause]
544
00:38:38,834 --> 00:38:45,709
Don't allow yourself to be
patronized, condescended to,
545
00:38:45,834 --> 00:38:50,667
which, if you are a woman
happens, and will continue to
546
00:38:50,792 --> 00:38:54,501
happen all the time,
all your lives.
547
00:38:54,626 --> 00:38:57,125
Don't take shit.
Tell the bastards off.
548
00:38:57,250 --> 00:38:59,626
[Cheering and applause]
549
00:39:02,834 --> 00:39:06,875
WOMAN: When she had just
become a Farrar, Straus,
and Giroux author,
550
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,501
Roger and Dorothea
Straus were giving one
551
00:39:09,626 --> 00:39:10,875
of their parties.
552
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,501
The custom was that after
dinner, the men would go off to
553
00:39:15,626 --> 00:39:19,209
one room to smoke their cigars
and have their conversation,
554
00:39:19,334 --> 00:39:22,084
and the women would go
off to another room.
555
00:39:22,209 --> 00:39:26,501
When Susan saw this, she
just went to join the men.
556
00:39:26,626 --> 00:39:27,875
And that was it.
557
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,875
Susan broke the tradition, and
after that, we never split up
558
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,875
after dinner again.
559
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,874
WOMAN: I don't think feminism
gave Susan anything.
560
00:39:38,999 --> 00:39:42,874
Susan had already taken out
the license to be a great woman
561
00:39:42,999 --> 00:39:44,875
before there was
any feminism; any talk
562
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,501
of feminism.
563
00:39:46,626 --> 00:39:50,292
In fact, I think feminism
must've curtailed her sphere
564
00:39:50,417 --> 00:39:52,875
of activity because she had
suddenly to identify with all
565
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,501
these women--all these
dopey women! Ha ha!
566
00:39:57,626 --> 00:40:03,042
SONTAG: I'm a militant
feminist, but I'm not
a feminist militant.
567
00:40:03,167 --> 00:40:06,874
The main activity that
I have as a writer
I have as a writer
568
00:40:06,999 --> 00:40:08,250
and not as a woman writer.
569
00:40:08,375 --> 00:40:12,626
♪
570
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,626
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
To be a woman is to
be an actress.
571
00:40:22,751 --> 00:40:25,501
Being feminine is a
kind of theater,
572
00:40:25,626 --> 00:40:30,667
with its appropriate costumes,
decor, lighting,
573
00:40:30,792 --> 00:40:33,042
and stylized gestures.
574
00:40:35,334 --> 00:40:37,209
The feminism is there.
575
00:40:37,334 --> 00:40:39,875
But she was such an
individual; you know, she
576
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:45,084
so hated to be pigeon-holed,
that, "I am not going to stamp
577
00:40:45,209 --> 00:40:46,875
my little feet and
say 'Naughty, naughty,
578
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,793
'Susan Sontag.
579
00:40:48,918 --> 00:40:50,501
Why weren't you marching
with your NOW button?'"
580
00:40:50,626 --> 00:40:54,875
But she was a feminist who
found most women wanting.
581
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,542
"Why do they waste so much
time worrying about what they
582
00:40:58,667 --> 00:41:02,209
looked like instead of
what they thought?"
583
00:41:02,334 --> 00:41:04,501
SONTAG: I don't know
what it means to be
trapped in domesticity.
584
00:41:04,626 --> 00:41:09,667
I was married. I had a child
whom I raised mostly myself
585
00:41:09,792 --> 00:41:14,459
because I was divorced when
my son was 7 years old.
586
00:41:14,584 --> 00:41:16,501
And I have had
a domestic life.
587
00:41:16,626 --> 00:41:21,875
I just don't
think it's a trap.
588
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,376
KOLLISCH:
My son was 7 when I first
met Susan, and David I think
589
00:41:27,501 --> 00:41:30,501
was about 11 or 12.
590
00:41:30,626 --> 00:41:39,000
It was the first time that a
woman courted me and won me.
591
00:41:41,626 --> 00:41:46,542
I might actually have
met Susan via Irene.
592
00:41:46,667 --> 00:41:48,874
I don't think I ever
knew the whole truth.
593
00:41:48,999 --> 00:41:51,875
I don't think she told me
really how deeply she was
594
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,875
still involved with Irene and
how much she was still in love
595
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,626
with her...I didn't know.
596
00:41:57,751 --> 00:42:00,875
I mean I never considered
myself main lover...
597
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,501
lover number 1, main wife,
or whatever--no.
598
00:42:04,626 --> 00:42:09,501
I was sort of the interlude.
599
00:42:09,626 --> 00:42:13,874
We tried to have a life where
we could do our mothering
600
00:42:13,999 --> 00:42:19,501
and pursue our work and have a
little extra time for fun or
601
00:42:19,626 --> 00:42:23,959
walking around the Village
or talking or making love.
602
00:42:25,626 --> 00:42:28,584
I was a much more
traditional mother.
603
00:42:28,709 --> 00:42:31,167
I wanted my son to have
a regular bedtime.
604
00:42:31,292 --> 00:42:33,874
I wanted him to
eat normal food. Ha ha!
605
00:42:33,999 --> 00:42:40,501
And I think that Susan treated
David like a peer I think long
606
00:42:40,626 --> 00:42:43,293
before she should
have done that.
607
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
Yesterday, David announced as
he was being prepared for bed,
608
00:42:50,626 --> 00:42:54,584
"You know what I see
when I shut my eyes?
609
00:42:54,709 --> 00:42:57,751
I see Jesus on the cross."
610
00:42:57,876 --> 00:43:00,874
It's time for Homer, I think.
611
00:43:00,999 --> 00:43:02,875
Paganize his tender spirit.
612
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,000
♪
613
00:43:11,626 --> 00:43:16,334
KOLLISCH:
I think she came to me for the
part that was the old Susan--
614
00:43:16,459 --> 00:43:19,167
the one who was hungry and
took off her shoes and raided
615
00:43:19,292 --> 00:43:22,501
the 'fridgerator and started
to gossip and be
616
00:43:22,626 --> 00:43:23,875
very comfortable.
617
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,917
I knew that she had really
another life among
very famous people.
618
00:43:28,042 --> 00:43:31,501
On one or two occasions
when I was in some lecture
619
00:43:31,626 --> 00:43:35,459
or some social event,
Susan treated me quite shabbily.
620
00:43:35,584 --> 00:43:39,042
She didn't introduce me,
or if she did then she left me
621
00:43:39,167 --> 00:43:44,626
standing there, and that
offended me and hurt me a lot.
622
00:43:46,042 --> 00:43:49,875
She was never able to
know what goes on
623
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,874
in another person.
624
00:43:51,999 --> 00:43:54,875
I mean the sensitivity that we
exercise in everyday life all
625
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,875
the time, you know, like,
"What are you thinking?
626
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,501
"What are you feeling?
Where are you in this?"
627
00:43:59,626 --> 00:44:02,875
Susan was not sensitive,
628
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,542
was not a sensitive person.
629
00:44:04,667 --> 00:44:08,626
♪
630
00:44:10,792 --> 00:44:13,000
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
My image of myself since age
631
00:44:13,125 --> 00:44:17,501
3 or 4: the
Genius-Schmuck.
632
00:44:17,626 --> 00:44:22,501
I develop relationships to
satisfy one or the other.
633
00:44:22,626 --> 00:44:29,501
Irene, obviously, was for the
schmuck, Philip for the genius.
634
00:44:29,626 --> 00:44:34,875
Yet both are always
there, like Siamese twins.
635
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,000
♪
636
00:44:44,626 --> 00:44:48,751
It came to me last night
that I have lost Irene.
637
00:44:48,876 --> 00:44:53,875
Like a bulletin coming
into view in Times Square.
638
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,875
Her eyes are blank.
639
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,250
She has let go.
640
00:45:09,709 --> 00:45:13,084
KOCH: She was briefly involved
with Jasper Johns.
641
00:45:13,209 --> 00:45:17,874
In Jasper, Susan's ego
met its match.
642
00:45:17,999 --> 00:45:21,875
She didn't think that there
were many people around who
643
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,501
were her equal, so she sought
out people who were her equal
644
00:45:26,626 --> 00:45:28,875
though in very
different areas.
645
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,501
She slept with whomever she
felt like sleeping with.
646
00:45:33,626 --> 00:45:36,709
She was very
resistant to categories.
647
00:45:36,834 --> 00:45:39,501
NUNEZ: She had relationships
with women and she had
648
00:45:39,626 --> 00:45:41,626
relationships with men,
and she fell in love
649
00:45:41,751 --> 00:45:45,084
with women and she
fell in love with men.
650
00:45:47,042 --> 00:45:52,875
LEVINE: After Irene and
Eva--oh, and then there
was Lily Engler
651
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,584
and Carlotta.
652
00:45:54,709 --> 00:45:55,875
Things were very elaborate.
653
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,875
I mean this was after all,
you know, this was
654
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,000
the sixties in the Village.
655
00:45:59,125 --> 00:46:03,000
♪
656
00:46:21,501 --> 00:46:22,874
Doctor!
657
00:46:22,999 --> 00:46:24,874
Will you tell these fools
I'm not crazy?
658
00:46:24,999 --> 00:46:27,875
Make them listen to me
before it's too late!
659
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,501
[Car horn honks]
660
00:46:29,626 --> 00:46:31,667
They're here already!
661
00:46:31,792 --> 00:46:33,292
You're next!
662
00:46:33,417 --> 00:46:34,917
[Zapping]
663
00:46:35,042 --> 00:46:38,334
Aah!
664
00:46:38,459 --> 00:46:40,874
Aaaaaah!
665
00:46:40,999 --> 00:46:42,501
She writes about
science fiction--
666
00:46:42,626 --> 00:46:45,501
like, trashy science fiction
B films, you know--
667
00:46:45,626 --> 00:46:47,875
"The Invasion of the
Body Snatchers."
668
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,875
You cannot imagine any other
New York intellectuals
writing about this.
669
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,501
It's just preposterous.
670
00:46:53,626 --> 00:46:56,667
[Gunfire]
671
00:46:56,792 --> 00:47:00,417
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
We live under continual
threat of two equally fearful
672
00:47:00,542 --> 00:47:03,667
but seemingly
opposed destinies--
673
00:47:03,792 --> 00:47:08,793
unremitting banality and
inconceivable terror.
674
00:47:08,918 --> 00:47:11,168
[Explosions]
675
00:47:13,751 --> 00:47:18,501
It is fantasy which allows
most people to cope with these
676
00:47:18,626 --> 00:47:20,875
twin spectres.
677
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,250
[Explosions]
678
00:47:31,417 --> 00:47:35,000
It was from a weekly visit to
the cinema that you learned
679
00:47:35,125 --> 00:47:44,501
how to strut, how to kiss,
to fight, to grieve.
680
00:47:44,626 --> 00:47:46,334
[Tires squeal]
681
00:47:46,459 --> 00:47:49,501
MAN: In the days of the
New Wave, the latest Godard
682
00:47:49,626 --> 00:47:54,501
or Fassbinder--this was a big,
big deal, and Susan was there
683
00:47:54,626 --> 00:48:00,292
before anybody.
684
00:48:00,417 --> 00:48:05,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
Cinema was poetic and
mysterious and erotic
685
00:48:05,626 --> 00:48:09,584
and moral--
all at the same time.
686
00:48:09,709 --> 00:48:12,875
You wanted to be
kidnapped by the movie.
687
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,000
♪
688
00:48:26,209 --> 00:48:29,501
KOCH: She says to me blandly
over dinner in a Chinese
689
00:48:29,626 --> 00:48:35,126
restaurant, "Oh, by the way,
I'm going to Sweden
to make a movie."
690
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,459
She'd got a letter
saying, "Dear Ms. Sontag.
691
00:48:40,584 --> 00:48:43,501
We would like you
to make a movie".
692
00:48:43,626 --> 00:48:44,875
This is like fantasy land.
693
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,542
It's fantasy.
694
00:48:46,667 --> 00:48:49,084
It doesn't happen to anybody.
695
00:48:50,626 --> 00:48:53,667
MAN: Its a very
strange movie.
696
00:48:53,792 --> 00:48:54,874
You think?
697
00:48:54,999 --> 00:48:56,584
Politics--yeah,
I think it's strange.
698
00:48:56,709 --> 00:48:58,874
Politics is
involved in some way.
699
00:48:58,999 --> 00:49:05,501
The sexuality of these
people, the ideology
of these people
700
00:49:05,626 --> 00:49:07,874
are played with.
701
00:49:07,999 --> 00:49:10,874
Most people you see in movies
have very little relation
to real people.
702
00:49:10,999 --> 00:49:13,501
In the average Hollywood movie,
you don't see real people,
703
00:49:13,626 --> 00:49:17,209
either mainstream people
or marginal people.
704
00:49:22,334 --> 00:49:24,626
[Speaking native language]
705
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,875
You're a little annoyed with
them, I mean, because they're
706
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,667
not eating or
whatever it is.
707
00:49:42,792 --> 00:49:45,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
Filmmaking is blind instinct,
708
00:49:45,626 --> 00:49:47,501
petty calculations,
709
00:49:47,626 --> 00:49:50,459
smooth generalship,
710
00:49:50,584 --> 00:49:58,501
daydreaming, pig-headedness,
grace, bluff, risk.
711
00:49:58,626 --> 00:50:00,917
[People speaking
native language]
712
00:50:01,042 --> 00:50:04,501
I remember the films as feeling
very Bergman-esque to me,
713
00:50:04,626 --> 00:50:06,501
you know?
714
00:50:06,626 --> 00:50:09,501
But she was learning how to
do it right in front of us.
715
00:50:09,626 --> 00:50:12,167
Yes, I know.
I read the reviews.
716
00:50:12,292 --> 00:50:13,584
MAN:
Have you any comments?
717
00:50:13,709 --> 00:50:15,959
I think they're wrong.
718
00:50:17,167 --> 00:50:21,000
♪
719
00:50:23,417 --> 00:50:24,667
SONTAG:
I love photography
so much.
720
00:50:24,792 --> 00:50:25,874
I look at pictures.
721
00:50:25,999 --> 00:50:28,916
I think about
pictures all the time.
722
00:50:31,918 --> 00:50:35,125
If I were to say to you
right now, "Susan Sontag, I'd
like to take your picture,"
723
00:50:35,250 --> 00:50:37,875
you'd pull yourself up,
arrange yourself.
724
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,292
Sure, and I'd do
this and--that's right.
725
00:50:41,417 --> 00:50:42,875
We have a notion
about a photograph.
726
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,626
You see, we want photographs
to tell us the truth,
727
00:50:45,751 --> 00:50:46,875
and we value them
because they really are
728
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,501
records in a sense,
let's say,
that painting isn't.
729
00:50:49,626 --> 00:50:51,501
At the same time we
want photographs to lie.
730
00:50:51,626 --> 00:50:52,875
We want them to make us
look good, that is
to say, better
731
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:58,209
than we normally look.
732
00:50:58,334 --> 00:51:02,501
SONTAG, VOICE-OVER:
Our sense of the world is
now ruled and shaped by
733
00:51:02,626 --> 00:51:04,501
photographed images.
734
00:51:04,626 --> 00:51:08,626
♪
735
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,875
What was the first
photograph you saw
that shocked
736
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,250
and horrified you?
737
00:51:26,626 --> 00:51:28,876
Does it still
horrify you?
738
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,501
I think the overall effect
of photographs, of painful,
739
00:51:38,626 --> 00:51:44,084
terrible photographs, is
that one is less shocked.
740
00:51:44,209 --> 00:51:47,417
I think that when you
see a lot of very
shocking and painful
741
00:51:47,542 --> 00:51:49,875
photographs,
you flinch less.
742
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,292
She's very deeply concerned
about the way that the image
743
00:51:56,417 --> 00:52:02,501
is consuming all the
public space for thinking.
744
00:52:02,626 --> 00:52:04,501
She thinks we should
be dieting, right,
745
00:52:04,626 --> 00:52:07,501
that we should be
consuming fewer images.
746
00:52:07,626 --> 00:52:11,626
♪
747
00:52:15,542 --> 00:52:20,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
The problem is not that people
remember through photographs,
748
00:52:20,626 --> 00:52:23,875
but that they remember
only the photographs.
749
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,000
♪
750
00:52:34,626 --> 00:52:38,501
LEVINE: I come in--
I had my own keys--
and I see the first sort
751
00:52:38,626 --> 00:52:43,501
of pre-copy of "On Photography,"
so I take the book and I go
752
00:52:43,626 --> 00:52:45,501
running upstairs,
and there she is,
753
00:52:45,626 --> 00:52:49,875
indeed, lying spread-eagled
on her back on her bed.
754
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,875
And I say, "Oh, you know, it
looks so beautiful in the two
755
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,875
tones of gray," and all
of this, and nothing.
756
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,501
Not a word.
757
00:52:57,626 --> 00:53:00,542
Sit down on the bed, and
she just turns her head,
758
00:53:00,667 --> 00:53:03,542
looks at me straight
in the eyes, and said,
759
00:53:03,667 --> 00:53:06,875
"But it's not as good as
Walter Benjamin, is it?"
760
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,875
And I thought, "OK,
moment of truth."
761
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,875
And I took a breath and I
said, "No, it's not, but that
762
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,875
doesn't mean it isn't the best
book of essays by an American
763
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,875
since the Second World War."
764
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:23,000
♪
765
00:53:50,626 --> 00:53:54,334
SONTAG: The first time
I ever saw photographs
of the Nazi camps,
766
00:53:54,459 --> 00:53:56,709
I was 12 years old.
767
00:53:57,626 --> 00:54:05,376
And I was in a bookstore
and I opened this book,
768
00:54:05,501 --> 00:54:08,250
and I thought I
was going to faint.
769
00:54:08,375 --> 00:54:09,751
I was so upset.
770
00:54:09,876 --> 00:54:11,875
I immediately closed the book.
771
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:17,875
I was trembling, and
then I opened it again.
772
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,167
And I knew--I knew
what I was seeing.
773
00:54:21,292 --> 00:54:23,667
I knew that the Nazis had
killed a lot of Jews.
774
00:54:23,792 --> 00:54:27,874
I knew that I was Jewish,
but I didn't know it meant
775
00:54:27,999 --> 00:54:30,084
what I saw.
776
00:54:30,209 --> 00:54:33,999
♪
777
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,333
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
Let the atrocious
images haunt us.
778
00:54:47,999 --> 00:54:52,584
This is what human beings
are capable of doing,
779
00:54:52,709 --> 00:54:56,501
may volunteer to do,
enthusiastically,
780
00:54:56,626 --> 00:54:58,876
self-righteously.
781
00:55:01,417 --> 00:55:03,917
Don't forget.
782
00:55:04,042 --> 00:55:08,000
♪
783
00:55:20,999 --> 00:55:23,501
MAN: Being Jewish--does
that matter to you?
784
00:55:23,626 --> 00:55:26,584
It matters in the sense
that I would always
stand up and be
785
00:55:26,709 --> 00:55:30,000
counted any time that it
mattered for other people.
786
00:55:30,125 --> 00:55:33,584
I'm Jewish because
other people say I am
787
00:55:33,709 --> 00:55:35,875
and because that's what
I am sociologically or
historically.
788
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:40,626
I come from a family which
generations ago belonged to
789
00:55:40,751 --> 00:55:43,001
a religious culture.
790
00:55:44,626 --> 00:55:50,875
KOLLISCH: We talked
a lot about my life
as a German Jewish refugee,
791
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:56,167
my having come out of that
background, and Susan just...
792
00:55:56,292 --> 00:55:59,958
I guess peeling down to
certain essentials.
793
00:56:00,083 --> 00:56:05,334
It was very important to live
a mundane life and yet also be
794
00:56:05,459 --> 00:56:08,875
in touch with the possibility
that your life could change
795
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:14,542
radically any moment.
796
00:56:14,667 --> 00:56:17,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
I feel, as a Jew,
797
00:56:17,626 --> 00:56:21,874
a special responsibility
to side with the oppressed
798
00:56:21,999 --> 00:56:23,501
and the weak.
799
00:56:23,626 --> 00:56:27,626
♪
800
00:56:36,918 --> 00:56:39,168
[Man speaking French]
801
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,250
[Sontag speaking French]
802
00:57:09,834 --> 00:57:12,667
What are we gonna do
about Susan Sontag?
803
00:57:12,792 --> 00:57:15,167
Is there is something to
be done about her?
804
00:57:15,292 --> 00:57:18,501
I don't know. I haven't--
I can't read her.
805
00:57:18,626 --> 00:57:20,751
She's unfathomable to me.
806
00:57:20,876 --> 00:57:22,875
She is as useful as anybody
else to recall a mood
807
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,667
about America which is very
fashionable these days--
808
00:57:25,792 --> 00:57:30,834
America as being philistine,
conformist, dedicated--
809
00:57:30,959 --> 00:57:33,417
in the words of
Howard Zinn--to death.
810
00:57:33,542 --> 00:57:37,626
♪
811
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,501
SONTAG, VOICE-OVER:
At this moment, firm-bodied
children are being charred by
812
00:57:49,626 --> 00:57:51,167
napalm bombs.
813
00:57:51,292 --> 00:57:55,501
Young men, Vietnamese and
American, are falling like trees
814
00:57:55,626 --> 00:57:59,000
to lie forever with
their faces in the mud.
815
00:57:59,125 --> 00:58:03,501
As writers, guardians of
language, we may and should
816
00:58:03,626 --> 00:58:07,167
conceive ourselves to have a
vocational connection with
817
00:58:07,292 --> 00:58:11,874
the life of truth, that is,
of seriousness.
818
00:58:11,999 --> 00:58:13,875
Let's be serious.
819
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,000
♪
820
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,875
[People shouting]
821
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,000
♪
822
00:58:46,626 --> 00:58:49,501
SONTAG, VOICE-OVER: I had
accepted an invitation from the
North Vietnamese government
823
00:58:49,626 --> 00:58:52,793
to visit North Vietnam
as a reward for all
824
00:58:52,918 --> 00:58:54,501
the public speaking and
getting arrested and whatnot
825
00:58:54,626 --> 00:58:55,958
that I had done.
826
00:58:56,083 --> 00:58:58,333
[Applause]
827
00:59:03,709 --> 00:59:07,626
♪
828
00:59:11,375 --> 00:59:15,167
Shakespeare, parliamentary
government, baroque churches,
829
00:59:15,292 --> 00:59:18,501
Newton, the emancipation
of women, Kant, Marx,
830
00:59:18,626 --> 00:59:22,584
and Ballanchine ballets don't
redeem what this particular
831
00:59:22,709 --> 00:59:26,000
civilization has wrought
upon the world.
832
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:36,000
♪
833
00:59:41,375 --> 00:59:45,542
Indeed, I think she
epitomizes what Albert Camus
834
00:59:45,667 --> 00:59:52,501
said: "The day when I am no
more than a writer, I shall
835
00:59:52,626 --> 00:59:53,874
cease to write".
836
00:59:53,999 --> 00:59:56,249
[Bell clanging]
837
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,874
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
I arrived in Israel with a
small crew during the recent
838
01:00:07,999 --> 01:00:12,626
Arab Israeli war to make a
so-called documentary.
839
01:00:15,626 --> 01:00:18,501
Being rather tuned into
sadness, to the tears
840
01:00:18,626 --> 01:00:22,875
of things, I put a lot
of that in the film.
841
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:27,000
♪
842
01:00:31,626 --> 01:00:36,417
SONTAG: What I want
people to think about
is how serious war is.
843
01:00:36,542 --> 01:00:41,584
It is more horrible than any
kind of pictures could convey.
844
01:00:41,709 --> 01:00:44,501
And maybe one of the most
horrible parts of it is that
845
01:00:44,626 --> 01:00:46,876
it becomes a normality.
846
01:00:48,083 --> 01:00:50,125
There is a culture of war.
847
01:00:50,250 --> 01:00:52,626
[People praying]
848
01:00:58,584 --> 01:01:01,459
I have may criticisms
of the government,
849
01:01:01,584 --> 01:01:04,875
but I'm generally a supporter
of Israel, and I don't feel
850
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,501
that this is incompatible
with a general left-wing
851
01:01:08,626 --> 01:01:09,875
point of view.
852
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,250
[Man singing]
853
01:01:17,459 --> 01:01:23,875
KOCH: "Promised Lands" was made
possible by Nicole Stephane.
854
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,874
She was born
Nicole Rothschild.
855
01:01:25,999 --> 01:01:30,584
She had had to flee
France from the Nazis.
856
01:01:30,709 --> 01:01:31,875
She entered into
the Resistance.
857
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:33,874
She was arrested.
858
01:01:33,999 --> 01:01:38,875
Then she became a movie star,
in these fantastic films--
859
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:43,667
the great film "Les Enfants
Terribles," in which she's this
860
01:01:43,792 --> 01:01:46,542
wonderful butch girl ...
861
01:01:46,667 --> 01:01:47,875
[Shouting]
862
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,874
[Knock on door]
863
01:01:50,999 --> 01:01:52,250
And she was Jewish.
864
01:01:52,375 --> 01:01:55,501
So there was absolutely
everything to fascinate
865
01:01:55,626 --> 01:01:57,876
Susan Sontag.
866
01:02:01,250 --> 01:02:04,501
LEVINE:
She had rented an apartment
on the Place St. Germain,
867
01:02:04,626 --> 01:02:05,875
and of course,
being Susan, it wasn't just
868
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,667
any old apartment.
869
01:02:07,792 --> 01:02:10,875
It was Sartre's old apartment,
so this is where Beauvoir
870
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,501
and Sartre would meet.
871
01:02:12,626 --> 01:02:15,626
And she literally never spent
a night in the apartment.
872
01:02:15,751 --> 01:02:18,874
She had immediately
moved in with Nicole.
873
01:02:18,999 --> 01:02:23,000
♪
874
01:02:30,751 --> 01:02:33,417
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
I'm in love.
875
01:02:33,542 --> 01:02:36,626
Don't ask me how
it's possible.
876
01:02:36,751 --> 01:02:40,875
It's just not in character;
my nightmare-ridden, stubborn,
877
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,000
melancholy Jewish character.
878
01:02:45,626 --> 01:02:48,000
And yet, it's happened.
879
01:02:49,626 --> 01:02:51,876
[Woman speaking French]
880
01:03:04,999 --> 01:03:09,000
♪
881
01:03:17,459 --> 01:03:20,501
SONTAG:
Despite the fact that I have
lived a good part of my adult
882
01:03:20,626 --> 01:03:23,501
life by choice in Europe--
mostly in France--
883
01:03:23,626 --> 01:03:26,875
I always come back here.
884
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,501
I certainly would not live in
this country if I didn't live
885
01:03:29,626 --> 01:03:30,875
in New York City.
886
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:35,000
♪
887
01:03:39,626 --> 01:03:43,875
KOCH: We were talking one
morning, chatting, and she said,
888
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,501
"Well I have to hang up now.
889
01:03:45,626 --> 01:03:47,501
"I've got a very
busy day today.
890
01:03:47,626 --> 01:03:49,875
"I have to find out whether I'm
being thrown out of my house
891
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,250
and whether I have cancer."
892
01:03:58,375 --> 01:04:00,501
The answer to both those
questions by the end
893
01:04:00,626 --> 01:04:02,501
of the week was, "Yes."
894
01:04:02,626 --> 01:04:06,375
♪
895
01:04:07,999 --> 01:04:13,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
While I was busy zapping
the world with my mind,
896
01:04:13,626 --> 01:04:15,501
my body fell down.
897
01:04:15,626 --> 01:04:19,626
♪
898
01:04:22,083 --> 01:04:24,875
I was told the cancer
was too advanced to be
899
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:26,834
likely to be curable
900
01:04:26,959 --> 01:04:30,209
and that I had 6 months
or a year to live.
901
01:04:30,334 --> 01:04:34,000
♪
902
01:04:37,751 --> 01:04:42,874
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
Trying to race ahead of my
death, to get in front of it,
903
01:04:42,999 --> 01:04:46,875
then turn around and face it.
904
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,000
♪
905
01:04:53,626 --> 01:04:57,042
KOCH: It was discovered that
she had a very aggressive
breast cancer
906
01:04:57,167 --> 01:04:59,501
that would require
very radical surgery.
907
01:04:59,626 --> 01:05:02,667
The phone rings and it's
Nicole, and she says, "You have
to come immediately.
908
01:05:02,792 --> 01:05:07,667
She's going to have this
operation and it's a very good
chance she won't survive."
909
01:05:07,792 --> 01:05:11,626
♪
910
01:05:12,667 --> 01:05:14,874
I never thought
Susan would die.
911
01:05:14,999 --> 01:05:16,875
She was so alive.
912
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:21,000
♪
913
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:33,875
SONTAG: They were still
being very conservative
about how much
914
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:35,874
chemotherapy they
wanted to use.
915
01:05:35,999 --> 01:05:40,000
So, I found a very mainstream
famous French chemotherapist
916
01:05:40,125 --> 01:05:42,292
who was willing to give me
a lot more chemotherapy
917
01:05:42,417 --> 01:05:43,874
for a lot longer time.
918
01:05:43,999 --> 01:05:45,542
And it's really
as simple as that.
919
01:05:45,667 --> 01:05:49,875
I didn't accept the fact
that my case was hopeless.
920
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:54,000
♪
921
01:05:56,999 --> 01:06:01,875
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
I feel like the Vietnam War.
922
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,000
They're using
chemical warfare on me.
923
01:06:08,209 --> 01:06:13,875
My illness is invasive,
colonizing.
924
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,875
It makes me want to shut up.
925
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,875
My body is talking louder
than I ever could.
926
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:25,000
♪
927
01:06:27,626 --> 01:06:29,876
[Speaking French]
928
01:06:39,751 --> 01:06:43,626
♪
929
01:06:48,999 --> 01:06:51,875
Only with Nicole could she
completely let her hair down,
930
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,334
and she treated
Nicole terribly--
931
01:06:54,459 --> 01:06:56,875
yelled and screamed, and you
know, "Why are you living
932
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,501
and I'm dying?" and
you know all of this.
933
01:06:59,626 --> 01:07:02,459
I remember these
marvelous moments.
934
01:07:02,584 --> 01:07:06,501
We'd be at the dinner table,
and Nicole would literally feed
Susan by the fork.
935
01:07:06,626 --> 01:07:09,875
She'd find some particularly
good morsel of whatever,
936
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:16,874
you know, and Susan would
just--would take it.
937
01:07:16,999 --> 01:07:18,874
SONTAG: I don't like
feeling like a victim.
938
01:07:18,999 --> 01:07:21,626
And even though I had to
believe that my doctors were
939
01:07:21,751 --> 01:07:25,042
probably right and that my
case was hopeless, I always
940
01:07:25,167 --> 01:07:29,000
believe in the power
of being an exception.
941
01:07:33,999 --> 01:07:36,582
[De Rothschild speaking French]
942
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,875
SONTAG, VOICE-OVER:
I fought for my life.
943
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,501
I really wanted to live.
944
01:07:56,626 --> 01:07:58,875
I have no difficulty in saying,
"Yes, I fought for my life."
945
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:00,501
I did.
946
01:08:00,626 --> 01:08:04,626
♪
947
01:08:12,709 --> 01:08:18,875
SONTAG: Everything
remembered is dear,
touching, precious.
948
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:22,875
At least the past is safe,
though we didn't know it
949
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,250
at the time.
950
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:32,875
We know it now because
we have survived.
951
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:37,000
♪
952
01:08:49,999 --> 01:08:53,958
SONTAG: The oldest idea
of illness, of what causes
illness, is that
953
01:08:54,083 --> 01:08:56,875
it's some punishment,
something that you actually
954
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:03,209
deserve or that you've
brought on yourself.
955
01:09:03,334 --> 01:09:07,501
SONTAG, VOICE-OVER:
My subject is not physical
illness itself, but the uses
956
01:09:07,626 --> 01:09:11,459
of illness as a figure
or a metaphor.
957
01:09:11,584 --> 01:09:15,501
My point is that illness is
not a metaphor and that the
958
01:09:15,626 --> 01:09:19,958
most truthful way of regarding
illness is one most purified
959
01:09:20,083 --> 01:09:27,874
of metaphoric thinking.
960
01:09:27,999 --> 01:09:30,209
There is such a thing as
accident. There is such
961
01:09:30,334 --> 01:09:34,459
a thing as fatality,
and there is such
a thing as thoroughly
962
01:09:34,584 --> 01:09:36,875
undeserved catastrophe.
963
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:40,501
And one shouldn't
try to make sense out
of one's catastrophe
964
01:09:40,626 --> 01:09:43,501
by coming to feel guilty
and feel therefore that you
965
01:09:43,626 --> 01:09:46,874
merited this terrible
thing that happened
to you, or allow
966
01:09:46,999 --> 01:09:50,666
other people to impose
that kind of judgment.
967
01:09:59,626 --> 01:10:02,501
NUNEZ: Susan had been in a
relationship for years
968
01:10:02,626 --> 01:10:06,667
with Nicole Stephane who
lived always in Paris.
969
01:10:06,792 --> 01:10:09,874
And Susan had been in the
habit of spending almost half
970
01:10:09,999 --> 01:10:11,209
her time there--
971
01:10:11,334 --> 01:10:13,875
all the summer,
for one thing.
972
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,875
But that relationship
broke up.
973
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:20,000
♪
974
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,501
It was long and slow,
the break-up.
975
01:10:24,626 --> 01:10:30,501
I think that's what
made it more painful.
976
01:10:30,626 --> 01:10:35,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
I had been hoping that
Nicole would take me back.
977
01:10:35,626 --> 01:10:40,209
I have pleaded, wept,
denounced, argued, raged.
978
01:10:46,417 --> 01:10:48,042
"Don't bother to lie.
979
01:10:48,167 --> 01:10:51,875
Don't bother to call.
I am not interested anymore."
980
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:56,000
♪
981
01:11:04,459 --> 01:11:07,501
NUNEZ: When I met David,
he was living at home.
982
01:11:07,626 --> 01:11:10,501
Susan had just
had breast cancer.
983
01:11:10,626 --> 01:11:13,875
She had never wanted to be
alone, but now of course she
984
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,626
was absolutely terrified
of being alone.
985
01:11:16,751 --> 01:11:18,874
So, um, she really,
986
01:11:18,999 --> 01:11:23,875
really did not want him to
move out of that apartment.
987
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,875
She didn't want to eat
a sandwich by herself
988
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,875
in the kitchen, or have her
morning coffee by herself.
989
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,875
She wanted us to be there.
990
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:38,000
♪
991
01:11:42,792 --> 01:11:45,793
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
Do I resent not
being a genius?
992
01:11:45,918 --> 01:11:49,667
Am I sad about it?
993
01:11:49,792 --> 01:11:53,501
Would I be willing to pay
the price for that?
994
01:11:53,626 --> 01:11:56,126
I think the price is solitude.
995
01:12:08,626 --> 01:12:13,626
SONTAG: I have lost
a number of close friends.
996
01:12:13,751 --> 01:12:17,751
I've been going to funerals
for the last 5 years.
997
01:12:19,626 --> 01:12:21,875
I realized that people were
made to feel guilty or ashamed
998
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,626
for being ill,
999
01:12:23,751 --> 01:12:26,417
and that drives me--
that drives me crazy.
1000
01:12:26,542 --> 01:12:30,501
Then I do feel that I must
get on a horse and do battle
1001
01:12:30,626 --> 01:12:33,626
on behalf of
the punished ill.
1002
01:12:35,459 --> 01:12:37,917
PINCKNEY: That memory
I have in the kitchen,
the phone ringing.
1003
01:12:38,042 --> 01:12:40,875
She explains that she's been
on the phone with a guy she
1004
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,875
doesn't know who had AIDS and
who called her up and wanted
1005
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,167
to talk about illness.
1006
01:12:47,292 --> 01:12:52,125
And at the time, you know,
there wasn't a lot about AIDS
1007
01:12:52,250 --> 01:12:54,751
and how to deal with it,
how to talk about it.
1008
01:12:54,876 --> 01:12:56,875
It was still a very
terrifying and stigmatizing
1009
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:58,751
sort of thing.
1010
01:12:58,876 --> 01:13:02,459
And she got calls from guys,
because she had written
1011
01:13:02,584 --> 01:13:06,125
about what it was like to
have the kind of disease that
1012
01:13:06,250 --> 01:13:07,875
ostracized you.
1013
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:12,000
♪
1014
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,501
SONTAG:
"When I was home," he is
reported to have said,
1015
01:13:17,626 --> 01:13:21,793
"I was afraid to sleep, as I
was dropping off each night.
1016
01:13:21,918 --> 01:13:25,501
"It felt like just that,
as if I were falling down
1017
01:13:25,626 --> 01:13:29,501
"a black hole. To sleep felt
like giving in to death.
1018
01:13:29,626 --> 01:13:33,501
I slept every night
with the light on."
1019
01:13:33,626 --> 01:13:36,501
"Never mentioned,"
Kate confirmed,
1020
01:13:36,626 --> 01:13:38,501
"that whatever happened
it was over,
1021
01:13:38,626 --> 01:13:41,501
"the way he had lived until now,
but, according to Ira,
1022
01:13:41,626 --> 01:13:44,875
"he did think about it,
the end of bravado,
1023
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:49,875
"the end of folly,
the end of trusting life,
the end of taking life
1024
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,501
"for granted, and of treating
life as something that,
1025
01:13:52,626 --> 01:13:57,875
samurai-like, he thought
himself ready to throw away
lightly, impudently."
1026
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,000
♪
1027
01:14:17,125 --> 01:14:22,542
Like a hyperactive queen,
I cruise culture daily,
1028
01:14:22,667 --> 01:14:27,875
have a thrill or flash of
ecstasy several times a week.
1029
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,875
My appetite is compulsive,
promiscuous.
1030
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:36,000
♪
1031
01:14:39,042 --> 01:14:43,875
LEVINE: Susan was attracted to
women who were dedicated to
1032
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:45,501
something, right?
1033
01:14:45,626 --> 01:14:48,209
So, Irene had her plays,
1034
01:14:48,334 --> 01:14:51,000
Nicole was this producer,
1035
01:14:51,125 --> 01:14:52,917
Lucinda Childs.
1036
01:14:53,042 --> 01:14:56,542
They were very successful
at what they did.
1037
01:15:00,083 --> 01:15:03,626
Could never keep up
with Susan, but if there was
1038
01:15:03,751 --> 01:15:06,501
something she really wanted
to see or a book she really
1039
01:15:06,626 --> 01:15:09,999
wanted me to read, I
would make the effort.
1040
01:15:11,999 --> 01:15:14,709
PINCKNEY:
She was very commanding
1041
01:15:14,834 --> 01:15:17,042
and doing
something rather new.
1042
01:15:17,167 --> 01:15:20,250
And plus Lucinda was a real
star of downtown New York.
1043
01:15:20,375 --> 01:15:24,000
♪
1044
01:15:28,417 --> 01:15:32,334
Susan's feeling was that
she preferred to stay
1045
01:15:32,459 --> 01:15:33,875
very private,
1046
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:37,709
wanting to just be
a professional.
1047
01:15:37,834 --> 01:15:41,874
"That's my identity,
as far as I'm concerned.
I'm a professional.
1048
01:15:41,999 --> 01:15:45,875
"And not wanting
to hide anything,
1049
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:49,501
"but you know just not
wanting to necessarily
1050
01:15:49,626 --> 01:15:54,875
demonstrate or be
demonstrative about
my private life."
1051
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:59,000
♪
1052
01:16:12,083 --> 01:16:15,875
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
It hurts to love.
1053
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:20,501
It's like giving yourself to
be flayed and knowing that
1054
01:16:20,626 --> 01:16:26,875
at any moment the other person
may just walk off with your skin.
1055
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:31,000
♪
1056
01:16:34,626 --> 01:16:38,875
MAN: Susan broke off
with Lucinda.
1057
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:42,209
She was wretched, and I
took her home from something
1058
01:16:42,334 --> 01:16:44,875
and stayed there that night,
all night long with her, cause
1059
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:46,501
she was so miserable.
1060
01:16:46,626 --> 01:16:50,292
She spent about half the night
telling me what a horrible
1061
01:16:50,417 --> 01:16:52,501
person Lucinda was and
how much she hated her
1062
01:16:52,626 --> 01:16:54,042
and so forth.
1063
01:16:54,167 --> 01:16:58,874
And then, we got past that
and she then said, "You know,
1064
01:16:58,999 --> 01:17:00,874
"about poetry, Richard.
1065
01:17:00,999 --> 01:17:05,209
Could you tell me about
how to read verse?"
1066
01:17:05,334 --> 01:17:07,875
And we spent the rest of
the night doing that
1067
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,875
with Wallace Stevens.
1068
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:14,000
♪
1069
01:17:24,417 --> 01:17:25,875
WOMAN: Annie Leibovitz,
welcome back!
Nice to see you.
1070
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:27,334
Nice to see you.
1071
01:17:27,459 --> 01:17:31,417
So, why, Annie, a book of
photographs about women?
1072
01:17:31,542 --> 01:17:32,958
Why not?
1073
01:17:33,083 --> 01:17:35,501
I mean it's a glorious,
incredible subject.
1074
01:17:35,626 --> 01:17:37,376
I mean it's half
the human race.
1075
01:17:37,501 --> 01:17:39,874
Like a half stop darker
or something like that.
1076
01:17:39,999 --> 01:17:44,084
LEIBOVITZ: It was Susan Sontag
who suggested American
women, and I said
1077
01:17:44,209 --> 01:17:47,709
I would do it if she
would write the essay.
1078
01:17:48,959 --> 01:17:50,875
She was interested, of course,
in photography, like she was
1079
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:53,626
interested in so many things,
and, you know, she said,
1080
01:17:53,751 --> 01:17:55,834
"You're good, but you
could be better."
1081
01:17:55,959 --> 01:17:59,958
Annie photographed her,
and then some flowers came.
1082
01:18:00,083 --> 01:18:03,875
And Susan said she saw the
flowers coming toward her
1083
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:08,083
and she was thinking, "I
hope they're from Annie."
1084
01:18:08,626 --> 01:18:11,334
MAN: Susan Sontag was
your very close friend
and companion?
1085
01:18:11,459 --> 01:18:13,501
We never used words
like y'know like that.
1086
01:18:13,626 --> 01:18:16,501
I mean, you know, "very intimate
friendship" is probably a better,
1087
01:18:16,626 --> 01:18:18,501
you know,
better way.
1088
01:18:18,626 --> 01:18:23,125
I just never felt--we never
used the jargon words.
1089
01:18:24,999 --> 01:18:29,501
COHEN: I would go to New York
and stay with Susan.
1090
01:18:29,626 --> 01:18:31,875
Susan would leave in
the middle of the night
1091
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,501
because Annie was
having a crisis--
1092
01:18:34,626 --> 01:18:36,875
Annie was having a crisis
with her family or something.
1093
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,875
Well, that story got to wear
very thin after a while,
1094
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:43,417
and I kind of figured it out.
1095
01:18:46,375 --> 01:18:50,875
KOESTENBAUM:
Susan Sontag lived in,
I think 410 W. 24th,
1096
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,542
and Annie Leibovitz
lived in the tower here 465.
1097
01:18:55,667 --> 01:18:57,875
So they could see each
other from their penthouses.
1098
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,000
♪
1099
01:19:06,167 --> 01:19:07,709
[Raining]
1100
01:19:07,834 --> 01:19:11,875
LEVINE: I remember having dinner
with Susan and Annie, and Susan
1101
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,626
starts yelling at her about
being stupid and all of this.
1102
01:19:15,751 --> 01:19:18,875
And then the next day, we're
going off to something
1103
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,875
at the Museum of Modern Art
during the day and I'm walking
1104
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,501
behind them, and I see Susan
and Annie are holding hands as
1105
01:19:24,626 --> 01:19:29,875
they walk along.
1106
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:33,501
WOMAN, AS SONTAG:
What makes me feel strong?
1107
01:19:33,626 --> 01:19:37,501
Being in love and work.
1108
01:19:37,626 --> 01:19:44,250
I must work.
1109
01:19:44,375 --> 01:19:51,000
My name is Susan Sontag,
President of American Center
1110
01:19:51,125 --> 01:19:52,875
of PEN.
1111
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,501
DANNER: Susan really
embodied an idea
1112
01:19:55,626 --> 01:20:00,501
of an intellectual that is,
indeed, you could argue, passe.
1113
01:20:00,626 --> 01:20:04,875
Mr. Chairman, distinguished
members of the subcommittee,
I'm very...
1114
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,874
DANNER: It had to
do with her belief in what
1115
01:20:07,999 --> 01:20:11,501
the role of the writer
should properly be.
1116
01:20:11,626 --> 01:20:13,874
The writer was supposed
to take a stand.
1117
01:20:13,999 --> 01:20:16,501
The writer was supposed to
be there on the front lines.
1118
01:20:16,626 --> 01:20:19,167
The writer was supposed
to stand for something.
1119
01:20:19,292 --> 01:20:23,000
♪
1120
01:20:28,999 --> 01:20:31,834
[Explosion]
1121
01:20:31,959 --> 01:20:34,209
[Gunfire]
1122
01:20:39,626 --> 01:20:42,958
SONTAG, VOICE-OVER: I guess
I go to war because I think
it's my duty to be in as
1123
01:20:43,083 --> 01:20:46,501
much contact with
reality as I can be.
1124
01:20:46,626 --> 01:20:49,874
And war is a tremendous
reality in our world.
1125
01:20:49,999 --> 01:20:51,875
You didn't go to be
a spectator either.
What did you do?
1126
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:53,875
No, no. I worked in the city.
I worked in the city.
1127
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:57,501
I mean, when I first went,
to my great surprise
they asked me
1128
01:20:57,626 --> 01:20:59,125
to work in the theater.
1129
01:20:59,250 --> 01:21:00,751
I said, "No, you know,
I don't want--"
1130
01:21:00,876 --> 01:21:01,917
In the midst of war?
1131
01:21:02,042 --> 01:21:04,834
Yeah. I said, "What do you
want a play for?"
1132
01:21:04,959 --> 01:21:06,501
And they said,
"We're not animals.
1133
01:21:06,626 --> 01:21:08,874
"We're not just people
sheltering in our basements
1134
01:21:08,999 --> 01:21:11,542
"and standing on bread
lines and water lines
getting killed."
1135
01:21:11,667 --> 01:21:13,501
Yes, and says, "That's
and end to his..."
1136
01:21:13,626 --> 01:21:17,501
I chose to do "Waiting for
Godot" because it did seem to
1137
01:21:17,626 --> 01:21:20,501
illustrate a lot of the things
that people are feeling now
1138
01:21:20,626 --> 01:21:22,042
in Sarajevo.
1139
01:21:22,167 --> 01:21:27,874
The play is about weak,
vulnerable, abandoned people
1140
01:21:27,999 --> 01:21:31,667
trying to keep their spirits
up while they wait for some
1141
01:21:31,792 --> 01:21:33,875
greater power to
help them out.
1142
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:38,000
♪
1143
01:21:41,626 --> 01:21:43,501
KOCH: There's a certain kind
of person who likes to put
1144
01:21:43,626 --> 01:21:46,501
themselves in extreme
situations because they feel
1145
01:21:46,626 --> 01:21:48,874
life is lived
more fully there.
1146
01:21:48,999 --> 01:21:51,749
And Susan was one
of those people.
1147
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:55,501
You're just a little bit
more notched up than you are
1148
01:21:55,626 --> 01:21:59,376
sitting around having
coffee in New York City.
1149
01:22:01,626 --> 01:22:03,626
LEBOWITZ:
Writers don't save lives.
1150
01:22:03,751 --> 01:22:05,874
Writers would like to save lives
because it's more heroic.
1151
01:22:05,999 --> 01:22:09,292
Military action. That's
what it takes to stop
a genocide, by the way,
1152
01:22:09,417 --> 01:22:11,501
not productions of
"Waiting for Godot."
1153
01:22:11,626 --> 01:22:16,874
She had this kind of heroic
sense of what some human beings
1154
01:22:16,999 --> 01:22:21,501
could accomplish, in music,
in writing, in art, in film,
1155
01:22:21,626 --> 01:22:22,874
in everything.
1156
01:22:22,999 --> 01:22:24,875
Extraordinary people.
1157
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:29,292
But, you know, it was
a limited number of people,
1158
01:22:29,417 --> 01:22:35,501
and was she ever going to drag
herself up there onto Olympus.
1159
01:22:35,626 --> 01:22:39,626
♪
1160
01:22:43,501 --> 01:22:45,667
What do you
believe in, then?
1161
01:22:45,792 --> 01:22:48,875
The hanging curve ball,
high fiber, good scotch.
1162
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:50,875
that the novels of Susan
Sontag are self-indulgent,
1163
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:52,376
overrated crap.
1164
01:22:52,501 --> 01:22:55,501
I believe in long, slow,
deep, soft, wet kisses
1165
01:22:55,626 --> 01:22:57,876
that last three days.
1166
01:22:59,083 --> 01:23:02,999
And I think Susan
Sontag is brilliant!
1167
01:23:04,417 --> 01:23:07,501
NELSON: She had
an unbelievably good
sense of what was important,
1168
01:23:07,626 --> 01:23:12,501
of what was interesting,
and what was significant...
1169
01:23:12,626 --> 01:23:16,501
and I'm talking mostly about
the sixties and seventies and
maybe the early eighties.
1170
01:23:16,626 --> 01:23:18,167
I mean, I think
as time goes on, she's
1171
01:23:18,292 --> 01:23:22,209
less engaged with the moment
because she's getting older,
1172
01:23:22,334 --> 01:23:24,501
her interests are changing,
1173
01:23:24,626 --> 01:23:26,875
and she's less
on the front lines.
1174
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,292
SONTAG: When I began to
write in the sixties when
I was very young,
1175
01:23:30,417 --> 01:23:33,000
I worried that certain forms of
the popular culture were being
1176
01:23:33,125 --> 01:23:36,875
neglected or ruled out
or treated in a snobbish
1177
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:38,376
and stupid way.
1178
01:23:38,501 --> 01:23:42,875
And so I seemed to be
defending popular culture.
1179
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:45,875
I think that the high culture
which I took for granted when
1180
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,501
I was growing up--the high
culture that I aspired
to live in
1181
01:23:49,626 --> 01:23:52,584
and to make my minute
contribution to--
1182
01:23:52,709 --> 01:23:56,501
that certainly has the quality
of an endangered species.
1183
01:23:56,626 --> 01:24:00,501
What sort of civilization
are you speaking
of, Creature?
1184
01:24:00,626 --> 01:24:03,875
Diplomacy, creation--
that's what we're
reaching toward.
1185
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,874
The Geneva Convention,
chamber music, Susan Sontag.
1186
01:24:06,999 --> 01:24:08,875
Everything your society
has worked so hard
to accomplish
1187
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,084
over the centuries,
that's what we aspire to.
1188
01:24:11,209 --> 01:24:12,874
We want to be civilized.
1189
01:24:12,999 --> 01:24:15,292
I mean, you take a look
at this fellow here.
1190
01:24:15,417 --> 01:24:16,459
Bee-bee-ba-ba-bee-bee!
1191
01:24:16,584 --> 01:24:17,501
[Bang]
1192
01:24:17,626 --> 01:24:19,876
[Thud]
1193
01:24:21,709 --> 01:24:25,875
MAN: Don't you find yourself
almost inevitably drawn to
1194
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:27,501
the television set,
1195
01:24:27,626 --> 01:24:31,501
to the so-called popular
questions...the questions
1196
01:24:31,626 --> 01:24:34,875
of what most people
are seeing as art,
1197
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:38,084
thinking, being sold,
um...
1198
01:24:38,209 --> 01:24:40,459
No.
1199
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,584
No, I don't,
and you know I don't.
1200
01:24:47,709 --> 01:24:50,709
I've said it in
countless interviews.
1201
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:53,875
Not that I'd read.
1202
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:58,501
Oh, well, then you haven't
read many interviews.
1203
01:24:58,626 --> 01:24:59,874
Maybe that's the problem.
1204
01:24:59,999 --> 01:25:03,209
She represents
grandiosity, I think.
1205
01:25:03,334 --> 01:25:05,875
And it is a little comic.
1206
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:07,875
And there is an
aspect of Camp.
1207
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:09,875
Susan Sontag is Camp.
1208
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:13,751
Her seriousness is kind of
Camp, because it seems a bit
1209
01:25:13,876 --> 01:25:18,542
of a pose, and it's
mannered and stylized.
1210
01:25:18,667 --> 01:25:22,875
But that's part of the fun of
the package of Susan Sontag.
1211
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:27,000
♪
1212
01:25:31,501 --> 01:25:36,584
MAN: Does any part of you
wish that you had earlier
focused more
1213
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:40,667
on writing
novels more?
1214
01:25:40,792 --> 01:25:41,875
All of me wishes that.
1215
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:43,459
[Thud]
1216
01:25:43,584 --> 01:25:44,834
Ha! Don't drop the book,
Charlie!
1217
01:25:44,959 --> 01:25:46,125
Yes, isn't that awful?
1218
01:25:46,250 --> 01:25:50,501
I wish... I wish I were
just starting now,
but what can I do?
1219
01:25:50,626 --> 01:25:54,542
Those essays from the sixties,
they were very insolent,
1220
01:25:54,667 --> 01:25:56,875
you know, like a
young person's work.
1221
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:02,667
I wouldn't mind if the
essays eventually evaporated.
1222
01:26:02,792 --> 01:26:05,501
I think fiction,
I think literature, I think
1223
01:26:05,626 --> 01:26:11,501
narrative is what lasts.
1224
01:26:11,626 --> 01:26:15,501
I do believe that there
is such a thing as truth,
1225
01:26:15,626 --> 01:26:19,875
but I prefer the mode in
which truth appears in art or
1226
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:21,874
in literature.
1227
01:26:21,999 --> 01:26:25,874
In literature, a truth is
something whose opposite is
1228
01:26:25,999 --> 01:26:27,501
also true.
1229
01:26:27,626 --> 01:26:31,626
♪
1230
01:26:34,999 --> 01:26:38,501
The last two novels--one is
called "The Volcano Lover,"
1231
01:26:38,626 --> 01:26:43,875
and the more recent one is
called "In America."
1232
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,875
I discovered I was
a storyteller.
1233
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:48,875
I felt I could
spread my wings.
1234
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:53,876
I felt I could...I could
even be entertaining.
1235
01:26:55,209 --> 01:26:57,875
True, there was still time
for something really vivid
1236
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:59,501
to happen.
1237
01:26:59,626 --> 01:27:02,793
Someone might have a heart
attack or whack a dinner
1238
01:27:02,918 --> 01:27:07,042
partner over the head or
sob or groan or toss a glass
1239
01:27:07,167 --> 01:27:09,874
of wine in an offending face.
1240
01:27:09,999 --> 01:27:13,709
But this seemed as unlikely as
my charging out of my window
1241
01:27:13,834 --> 01:27:17,584
seat to dance on the table
or spit in the soup or fondle
1242
01:27:17,709 --> 01:27:20,999
a knee or bite
someone's ankle.
1243
01:27:22,626 --> 01:27:27,501
GORDIMER:
She wouldn't like to hear
this, but her novels were not
1244
01:27:27,626 --> 01:27:32,084
received at the standard
at which she wanted.
1245
01:27:32,209 --> 01:27:35,875
Because she was so well known,
there was a certain amount
1246
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:40,501
of attention, and I mean
I think it was Gore Vidal who
1247
01:27:40,626 --> 01:27:44,501
wrote that, "as a fiction
writer, Susan Sontag has no
1248
01:27:44,626 --> 01:27:46,167
talent whatsoever."
1249
01:27:46,292 --> 01:27:53,875
I mean,
it was always these very
strong, harsh statements.
1250
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:57,875
NUNEZ: She did win the National
Book Award for "In America."
1251
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,875
"The Volcano Lover"
was a huge critical
1252
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:04,542
and commercial success.
1253
01:28:04,667 --> 01:28:07,501
Sometimes awards are given
in recognition of a career as
1254
01:28:07,626 --> 01:28:11,793
much as the merits of
a particular book.
1255
01:28:11,918 --> 01:28:13,501
[Applause]
1256
01:28:13,626 --> 01:28:17,626
♪
1257
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:28,875
But in spite of all these
well-earned awards and all her
1258
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:34,501
accomplishments, a sense
of failure clung to her.
1259
01:28:34,626 --> 01:28:36,876
She was not happy.
1260
01:28:38,626 --> 01:28:43,501
CASTLE: She was
haunted by a sense
that her younger self would
1261
01:28:43,626 --> 01:28:52,875
not have been satisfied...that
she hadn't been good enough.
1262
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:57,875
I think she was terrorized
by the fact of her own
1263
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:05,000
transience, that she, too, would
become a part of the past...
1264
01:29:07,626 --> 01:29:12,875
fade to black.
1265
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,250
[Woman speaking]
1266
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:18,875
Certainly not.
1267
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:23,000
♪
1268
01:29:33,626 --> 01:29:34,875
MAN: Anne Leibovitz
is here.
1269
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:37,542
She is perhaps the
best-known American
photographer around.
1270
01:29:37,667 --> 01:29:40,501
She has also published 6
books of her photographs.
1271
01:29:40,626 --> 01:29:43,875
Her most recent one
is called "9 Pounds."
1272
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:48,917
No, it's called "A
Photographer's Life,
1990-2005."
1273
01:29:49,042 --> 01:29:51,584
In it, Annie publishes
celebrity photographs
1274
01:29:51,709 --> 01:29:53,376
as well as portraits
of family members,
1275
01:29:53,501 --> 01:29:55,874
her 3 children, and
perhaps the most important
1276
01:29:55,999 --> 01:30:01,501
person in her life,
Susan Sontag.
1277
01:30:01,626 --> 01:30:04,501
My gosh, the years that I'm
supposed to work on the book,
1278
01:30:04,626 --> 01:30:08,376
1990-2005, are the years
I was with Susan.
1279
01:30:08,501 --> 01:30:10,626
I just got very excited
because I thought I'm going to
1280
01:30:10,751 --> 01:30:14,000
look at my work as if Susan
was standing in back of me,
1281
01:30:14,125 --> 01:30:18,875
you know, as if she was there
you know, working with me
to put the book together.
1282
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:23,000
♪
1283
01:30:35,542 --> 01:30:38,376
RIELL:
My mother had 3 cancers.
1284
01:30:38,501 --> 01:30:42,584
She had a breast cancer when
she was in her early 40s.
1285
01:30:42,709 --> 01:30:48,501
When she was in her mid 60s,
she had a uterine sarcoma.
1286
01:30:48,626 --> 01:30:50,501
Then 7 years later--
or 6 years later,
1287
01:30:50,626 --> 01:30:54,501
she was diagnosed with this
disease, MDS, which is this
1288
01:30:54,626 --> 01:30:56,501
lethal blood cancer.
1289
01:30:56,626 --> 01:31:00,626
♪
1290
01:31:02,626 --> 01:31:06,626
COHEN: She needed to have a
bone marrow transplant.
1291
01:31:06,751 --> 01:31:09,001
[Speaking French]
1292
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:20,000
♪
1293
01:31:21,834 --> 01:31:24,875
CHILDS: I had just
gotten back to the States,
and she told me what
1294
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:27,501
was happening, that she had
this leukemia and that it was
1295
01:31:27,626 --> 01:31:30,667
just raging and
she was very ill.
1296
01:31:30,792 --> 01:31:35,501
And then she said, "Once I'm
over the transplant, maybe you
1297
01:31:35,626 --> 01:31:37,501
would come out at that time."
1298
01:31:37,626 --> 01:31:39,501
She was assuming that the
transplant would be successful.
1299
01:31:39,626 --> 01:31:41,501
And she said, "Of course there's
a risk because of my age,
1300
01:31:41,626 --> 01:31:42,875
and because of
the previous illnesses,"
1301
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:45,874
and so forth and so on.
She said, "But it's
my only chance."
1302
01:31:45,999 --> 01:31:56,501
If she wanted to believe in...
the idea that she would beat
1303
01:31:56,626 --> 01:32:01,874
the odds once more, as
she'd done twice in the
past with cancer,
1304
01:32:01,999 --> 01:32:05,875
it wasn't for me
to stand in the way of that.
1305
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:10,000
♪
1306
01:32:14,584 --> 01:32:17,875
COHEN: We had a conversation.
1307
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:23,417
She said "You need to tell
me what I've done that--
1308
01:32:23,542 --> 01:32:26,042
how I've wronged you."
Ha ha!
1309
01:32:26,167 --> 01:32:30,542
I said, "Well, I'll do it if
you'll do the same thing."
1310
01:32:30,667 --> 01:32:35,709
And that's when she told me,
you know, this inane wish
1311
01:32:35,834 --> 01:32:39,501
of hers that I'd
become an attorney.
1312
01:32:39,626 --> 01:32:43,876
And I thought, well, that's
really soft ball. Ha ha!
1313
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:52,874
I told her the next day that
I very much resented the fact
1314
01:32:52,999 --> 01:32:58,501
that she didn't attend our
wedding. Ha ha!
1315
01:32:58,626 --> 01:33:04,501
And most of all, I resented
that she spent most of her
1316
01:33:04,626 --> 01:33:08,501
life not being honest with me.
1317
01:33:08,626 --> 01:33:12,626
And I think I really
did strike home.
1318
01:33:14,042 --> 01:33:18,958
And she admitted--she
was sorry she didn't come
to the wedding.
1319
01:33:19,083 --> 01:33:23,875
And, uh, she, um...
1320
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:27,501
said that I was right and
she was sorry about that.
1321
01:33:27,626 --> 01:33:31,626
♪
1322
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:36,376
RIELL: My mother was
afraid of extinction.
1323
01:33:36,501 --> 01:33:37,917
You are extinguished.
1324
01:33:38,042 --> 01:33:43,876
And I think that's what she
felt and I think it terrified her.
1325
01:33:46,626 --> 01:33:54,667
So the way that she decided
that she would face it was to
1326
01:33:54,792 --> 01:33:56,501
fight to the last breath.
1327
01:33:56,626 --> 01:33:58,875
Fight, fight, every moment.
1328
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:03,000
♪
1329
01:34:06,125 --> 01:34:08,376
I guess I'm a little like Susan
1330
01:34:08,501 --> 01:34:15,501
in that I always thought
she would survive, too.
1331
01:34:15,626 --> 01:34:19,501
RIELL: She had this
transplant in the
Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center
1332
01:34:19,626 --> 01:34:21,125
in Seattle.
1333
01:34:21,250 --> 01:34:24,875
And when the doctors came to
tell her it hadn't worked,
1334
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:26,875
she started to scream.
1335
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:31,000
♪
1336
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:48,874
LEIBOVITZ:
I went to Seattle to bring
her home in an air ambulance.
1337
01:34:48,999 --> 01:34:51,999
It was really a
harrowing experience.
1338
01:34:53,626 --> 01:34:59,958
KOCH: She then returned
to Sloan-Kettering
because it was over,
1339
01:35:00,083 --> 01:35:03,000
and she was being
sent there to die.
1340
01:35:05,375 --> 01:35:07,209
Um...and she did.
1341
01:35:07,334 --> 01:35:11,626
♪
1342
01:35:13,375 --> 01:35:16,874
I immediately went to
the hospital and then I
1343
01:35:16,999 --> 01:35:18,209
went in and--
1344
01:35:18,334 --> 01:35:21,501
and sat with Susan's
body for a while,
1345
01:35:21,626 --> 01:35:22,875
quite a while.
1346
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:27,000
♪
1347
01:35:30,501 --> 01:35:32,626
RIELL: If you're interested in
everything, if you're curious
1348
01:35:32,751 --> 01:35:34,334
about everything,
1349
01:35:34,459 --> 01:35:36,501
it's a lot harder to die.
1350
01:35:36,626 --> 01:35:40,626
♪
1351
01:35:51,626 --> 01:35:57,417
KAPLAN: I saw her one last time
way at the end of her life.
1352
01:35:57,542 --> 01:35:59,958
I was walking down
the Boulevard St. Germain,
1353
01:36:00,083 --> 01:36:03,501
past the great cafe,
The Flore,
1354
01:36:03,626 --> 01:36:10,958
And she was sitting in the
front with her notebook, writing.
1355
01:36:11,083 --> 01:36:17,250
Sitting in Paris looking out and
writing in her notebook still.
1356
01:36:28,251 --> 01:36:36,251
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