Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:29,150 --> 00:00:32,580
James Baldwin
agreed to make a film
about his life as a writer,
2
00:00:32,620 --> 00:00:34,680
rather than
as a political figure.
3
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,850
Paris seemed
an obvious location,
4
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,680
as it was here that his career
as a successful writer began.
5
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,080
Several of his books
are set in Paris,
6
00:00:43,150 --> 00:00:46,020
and he still spends
a lot of his time here.
7
00:00:46,050 --> 00:00:48,050
Filming began normally enough.
8
00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,880
Baldwin reminisced
about his original decision
to leave New York.
9
00:00:53,020 --> 00:00:56,080
When and why
I was going to Paris.
10
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,480
When was November 11th, 1948.
11
00:00:59,550 --> 00:01:01,880
It was a matter
of life or death.
12
00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:07,980
You can't turn your back
in America long enough
to write a book...
13
00:01:08,020 --> 00:01:11,250
or to find out who you are.
14
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:16,280
I had to be in
a desperate situation
to come so far, with $40.
15
00:01:18,650 --> 00:01:21,620
I don't know how I lived.
16
00:01:21,650 --> 00:01:24,150
I sold my clothes,
I remember that.
17
00:01:24,180 --> 00:01:27,080
I sold my typewriter,
I remember that.
18
00:01:27,150 --> 00:01:30,850
And some people got
very nasty with me because
I didn't have any money.
19
00:01:32,620 --> 00:01:35,250
I hit the streets, of course.
20
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,550
I can't describe... Anyone who's
been there knows what I did.
21
00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:44,820
And anyone who hasn't been,
I cannot tell, you know.
22
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,950
I don't know what I did.
23
00:01:47,980 --> 00:01:51,680
I got through one day
to the next, for four years.
24
00:01:51,750 --> 00:01:54,480
How I did it, I don't know.
25
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,650
No-one I knew had any money.
26
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,520
The great trial
was not to let my family know.
27
00:02:00,550 --> 00:02:02,980
Because what could they do?
28
00:02:03,020 --> 00:02:07,720
Except, you know,
just be scared shitless
that Jimmy was in trouble,
29
00:02:07,750 --> 00:02:10,750
miles and miles away. They
couldn't do anything about it.
30
00:02:14,180 --> 00:02:17,880
After shooting
began, Baldwin's attitude
started to change,
31
00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:19,880
and he became less cooperative.
32
00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:23,550
He did, however, agree to be
filmed in the Algerian quarter,
33
00:02:23,580 --> 00:02:26,250
the Harlem of Paris.
34
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,220
I must say, the Algerians
were very nice to me
35
00:02:29,250 --> 00:02:31,520
because they understood the city
and I did not.
36
00:02:31,580 --> 00:02:34,950
I didn't know these streets.
And they protected me
in the streets.
37
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,180
And no-one else could.
38
00:02:39,220 --> 00:02:42,120
The Algerian in France
is the nigger in America.
39
00:02:42,150 --> 00:02:44,220
By now, Baldwin was saying
40
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,250
that he was no longer interested
in his work as a writer,
41
00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:48,920
or his time in Paris.
42
00:02:48,980 --> 00:02:53,520
He suddenly refused
to film sequences depicting
his present life here.
43
00:02:53,550 --> 00:02:56,120
I'm not really back in Paris.
44
00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,220
I'm not gonna stay here,
that I know.
45
00:02:59,250 --> 00:03:03,050
Where do you think
we're sitting, in Paris,
46
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,280
next door to Washington?
47
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,650
My country runs the world,
owns the world.
48
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,980
As Mr Heath probably
will be glad to tell you.
49
00:03:13,020 --> 00:03:15,850
I'm in a position in which
everyone in the world...
50
00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:21,020
can claim me
and has the right to claim me.
51
00:03:21,050 --> 00:03:26,650
I'm one of the very
few dark people in the
world...who have a voice.
52
00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:32,480
That means something
which no white writer can mean
53
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,050
at this point
in the world's history,
54
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,350
and I can't really escape that.
I don't think I should even try.
55
00:03:39,420 --> 00:03:42,350
By this time,
Baldwin was quite hostile to us
56
00:03:42,380 --> 00:03:45,080
and had attracted a group
of Black American students
57
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,120
whom he wanted to accompany him
whenever he was filming.
58
00:03:48,150 --> 00:03:52,480
One of them was particularly
dominant, and insisted,
with Baldwin's agreement,
59
00:03:52,550 --> 00:03:54,750
that we filmed
at the Place de la Bastille,
60
00:03:54,780 --> 00:03:57,350
symbol of the French Revolution.
61
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,650
Can you tell us
why we're here in this place?
62
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,450
Yes. People came out of those
streets, not very long ago,
63
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,550
to tear down this prison.
64
00:04:08,620 --> 00:04:11,250
And my point is the prison
is still really here.
65
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,150
We build it all the time.
66
00:04:15,180 --> 00:04:18,780
I'm speaking more about
my own country than
I'm speaking about France.
67
00:04:18,850 --> 00:04:24,180
I represent, at this
moment, many political
prisoners in America.
68
00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:27,080
That's why I wanted
to come here today.
69
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,480
Is that also why you...
70
00:04:29,550 --> 00:04:33,080
I mean, you veered this film
off your literary work...
71
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,020
- What?
- You veered the film
72
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,780
off your literary work
and on to...
73
00:04:39,850 --> 00:04:42,950
what you feel,
rather than what you write.
74
00:04:44,620 --> 00:04:47,620
It isn't so much
what I feel, Terry,
75
00:04:47,650 --> 00:04:49,180
it's what I know.
76
00:04:50,620 --> 00:04:52,420
If my work is any good,
it will last.
77
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,820
I haven't got
to talk about that.
78
00:04:54,850 --> 00:04:56,650
There's nothing
to be said about it.
79
00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,880
But I do know
what is happening...now.
80
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,420
You know. I'm not so much
a writer as I'm a citizen.
81
00:05:05,450 --> 00:05:07,696
And I've got to bear witness
to something which I know.
82
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,120
So, why won't you allow us
83
00:05:11,150 --> 00:05:15,250
to project you through your work
instead of you as you...are?
84
00:05:16,620 --> 00:05:19,780
I'm perfectly willing to, but I
don't see how you can do it.
85
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:23,680
You know?
86
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,980
Well, we had
a system, we had a scheme.
87
00:05:28,020 --> 00:05:29,680
Yes.
88
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,320
And you obviously
weren't sympathetic to it.
89
00:05:34,820 --> 00:05:39,050
That has nothing whatever to do
with something else,
90
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,250
which I represent
whether or not I like it.
91
00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:45,750
I could be Bobby Seale.
92
00:05:45,780 --> 00:05:48,050
I could be Angela Davis.
93
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,096
- But you couldn't.
- I could be Medgar Evers.
94
00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,980
You couldn't,
because you...are a writer.
95
00:05:53,050 --> 00:05:55,626
And that... What's the problem.
What are we doing wrong?
96
00:05:55,650 --> 00:05:58,350
- Don't put any camera on me.
- What are we doing wrong?
97
00:05:58,420 --> 00:06:00,580
You're telling me I'm doing...
Tell me.
98
00:06:00,620 --> 00:06:03,350
- In the first place, you're not honest.
- - In what way?
99
00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:05,620
All right.
100
00:06:05,650 --> 00:06:08,996
I explained to you that we
wanted to do certain things
a certain way. Right?
101
00:06:09,020 --> 00:06:11,280
- No, you didn't.
- Right.
102
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,156
We just talked about that
a few minutes ago...
103
00:06:13,180 --> 00:06:14,426
- Explain it to me again.
- Right?
104
00:06:14,450 --> 00:06:17,550
I told you that we were
gonna ask the brother
a question, right?
105
00:06:17,580 --> 00:06:20,750
- Yeah.
Which we are.
- All right.
106
00:06:20,820 --> 00:06:23,580
- And you agreed.
You didn't ask him.
- Yes, I did.
107
00:06:23,620 --> 00:06:25,996
- Don't tell me your memory is that short.
- - I asked him.
108
00:06:26,020 --> 00:06:27,926
Well, what was
the first question
you asked him?
109
00:06:27,950 --> 00:06:29,926
You know
perfectly well,
I'm not getting into this.
110
00:06:29,950 --> 00:06:32,126
- What was the first question
you asked?
- I asked him why he was here,
111
00:06:32,150 --> 00:06:34,896
which is the question
we agreed to ask,
what the Bastille meant to him.
112
00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,756
That wasn't the question
we agreed to ask him.
113
00:06:36,780 --> 00:06:39,626
Yes, it was. All right,
tell me what it was and
I'll put it to him right now.
114
00:06:39,650 --> 00:06:44,250
So, I told you to ask him, how
would he account for the fact
115
00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:48,380
that the Bastille today
is still the most popular
monument in France?
116
00:06:48,450 --> 00:06:49,850
- Right.
- Period.
117
00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:51,550
That's not the same thing.
118
00:06:51,620 --> 00:06:55,220
The question we've been
told to ask is why do you think
119
00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:58,050
the Bastille is the most popular
monument in France today?
120
00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,680
Well, it's not the most popular.
121
00:07:13,780 --> 00:07:16,420
Then why I was told
to ask that question?
122
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,020
I mean, there is a significance
to this monument,
123
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,450
which I've asked you about.
124
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,020
Now, I've been challenged,
I've been criticised
125
00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,550
and I've been told that I didn't
ask the question the right way.
126
00:07:31,620 --> 00:07:34,180
So, how should I have asked it?
127
00:07:34,220 --> 00:07:36,220
It's an honest question.
128
00:07:38,020 --> 00:07:41,420
Terry,
I know what is happening here.
129
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,056
Well, what?
Tell us what's happening.
130
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,120
What is happening is that
he has something in his mind
131
00:07:47,180 --> 00:07:49,380
and I have something
in my mind too...
132
00:07:50,580 --> 00:07:52,780
which you don't quite see.
133
00:07:52,850 --> 00:07:56,250
And now you're doing
something, you know,
rather against your will,
134
00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,750
without quite
knowing what it is.
135
00:07:58,780 --> 00:08:03,480
Look, I am not interested in
Jimmy Baldwin's Paris, right?
136
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,120
I'm not the least interested
in my 22 years in this city.
137
00:08:08,150 --> 00:08:10,350
It's of no importance
at all, right?
138
00:08:10,420 --> 00:08:15,450
What is important is I'm
a survivor of something
and a witness to something.
139
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,880
- That is what matters.
- Right.
140
00:08:17,950 --> 00:08:20,320
And that is all that matters.
141
00:08:20,350 --> 00:08:23,320
I'm not speaking for me.
142
00:08:23,350 --> 00:08:28,420
I'm much too... I'm much
too proud, for one thing,
to speak for my own work.
143
00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:31,420
My work will speak for itself,
or it won't.
144
00:08:31,450 --> 00:08:35,620
But I am a Black man
in the middle of this century.
145
00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:38,450
And I speak for that.
146
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,550
To all of you. The English, the
French, the Irish, all of you.
147
00:08:42,580 --> 00:08:47,480
Because none of you know yet
who this dark stranger is.
148
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,980
None of you know it.
149
00:08:50,020 --> 00:08:53,150
And that is what this quarrel
is really about.
150
00:08:53,180 --> 00:08:55,180
I'm not at all
what you think I am.
151
00:08:58,620 --> 00:09:00,180
I'm very different than that.
152
00:09:00,220 --> 00:09:02,320
I have something else to do?
153
00:09:02,350 --> 00:09:05,550
What exactly
do you think we think you are?
154
00:09:05,580 --> 00:09:09,150
I think you think
that I'm an exotic survivor.
155
00:09:09,180 --> 00:09:14,180
I don't know what Carl
was trying to say,
but I'm telling you this,
156
00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:19,320
because he looks the way he
looks and for no other reason,
157
00:09:19,380 --> 00:09:23,220
for no other reason,
he could be dead in the morning.
158
00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:25,980
That isn't true of you,
any of you. It's true of him.
159
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,750
That is what
your civilization means
160
00:09:33,780 --> 00:09:36,650
and that's what
you don't want to find out.
161
00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:41,280
I've known boys like that all
my life. Half of them are dead.
162
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,850
Because they're Black.
163
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,680
So, now, you say that...
You say that and we could argue
164
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,656
that we do know that,
that we do know that
165
00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:51,456
- and that's why we're here.
- Do you? Do you?
166
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,180
So, now how do you know
we don't know that?
167
00:09:54,220 --> 00:09:56,156
Because of the way...
I know you don't know
168
00:09:56,180 --> 00:09:57,726
because of the way
you talk to him.
169
00:09:57,750 --> 00:10:00,380
I'm trying
to solicit something from him.
170
00:10:00,420 --> 00:10:04,050
I'm trying to get him to
communicate with me in a
genuine way, which he isn't.
171
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,050
He's communicating with me
behind a barrier,
172
00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,350
- which I don't...
- He has a life to lose,
you don't.
173
00:10:10,420 --> 00:10:14,620
Yeah! And your books have
awakened us to that fact,
174
00:10:14,650 --> 00:10:17,456
to the extent that we
wanted to come here
and make a film about it,
175
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,450
because that's our means
of communication.
176
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,050
All right, now we...
177
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,220
Okay. All right.
Now, we can start.
178
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,220
We had to get to this point,
before we get any further.
179
00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:28,320
Well,
where do we go from here, then?
180
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,480
I would tell you, if I could,
I really would.
181
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,750
I know you would.
We would tell you if we could.
182
00:10:35,780 --> 00:10:38,256
And you keep saying to me,
"You are making the movie,"
183
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,520
and I keep saying to you, "No,
we need you to make the movie."
184
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,780
That's what I'm trying
to tell you, is...
185
00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:54,320
When they tore this prison down,
186
00:10:54,350 --> 00:10:56,950
that was a great event
in European history.
187
00:10:56,980 --> 00:10:58,980
And Europe understands that.
188
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,750
I am trying
to tear a prison down too.
189
00:11:06,820 --> 00:11:10,980
That event doesn't yet occur,
in European imagination.
190
00:11:12,420 --> 00:11:14,420
I am still, for Europe,
a savage.
191
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,520
When a white man
tears down a prison,
192
00:11:19,550 --> 00:11:21,920
he is trying
to liberate himself.
193
00:11:21,950 --> 00:11:26,580
When I tear down a prison,
I'm assumed to be turning
into another savage.
194
00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:29,620
Because you don't understand...
195
00:11:29,650 --> 00:11:34,150
that you, for me, my prison.
196
00:11:34,180 --> 00:11:35,980
You are my warden.
197
00:11:36,020 --> 00:11:38,020
I am battling you.
198
00:11:39,820 --> 00:11:41,450
Not you, Terry.
199
00:11:42,820 --> 00:11:46,320
But you, the English,
you, the French.
200
00:11:46,350 --> 00:11:49,220
A whole way of life,
a whole system of thought...
201
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,320
which has kept me in prison
until this hour.
202
00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:56,580
But why are we here?
203
00:11:56,650 --> 00:11:58,580
You are trying to find out
204
00:11:58,620 --> 00:12:01,050
and I'm telling you
what you don't know.
205
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:02,550
Do you want us to find out?
206
00:12:02,580 --> 00:12:04,620
Yes! You'd better.
207
00:12:06,950 --> 00:12:09,920
- You'd better.
- We have, as you say,
208
00:12:09,950 --> 00:12:11,720
this complete lack
of communication
209
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:14,650
because we're, I'm attempting
to do something which you...
210
00:12:17,450 --> 00:12:19,780
You seem like you already
know the answer.
211
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,596
And I'm trying to find
the answer and I'm trying
to show the answer.
212
00:12:24,620 --> 00:12:29,020
I know. But I got to be able
to talk to somebody.
213
00:12:29,050 --> 00:12:30,726
If you're gonna
get this movie done...
214
00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:33,650
You've got
to talk to people, all right?
215
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,580
Is the mic on?
216
00:12:35,650 --> 00:12:38,320
The talking,
with the students and others,
217
00:12:38,350 --> 00:12:40,780
took place in the studio
of Beauford Delaney,
218
00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:43,420
an old painter friend
of Baldwin's.
219
00:12:43,450 --> 00:12:45,050
As the conversation progressed,
220
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,420
Baldwin's background as a
young Baptist preacher in Harlem
221
00:12:48,450 --> 00:12:50,050
became very apparent.
222
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:51,896
All right, now,
Fay here's already told me
223
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,350
she hasn't read
any of James' books, right,
224
00:12:55,420 --> 00:12:58,280
and I know that she's
only met him the other day.
225
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,520
So, I'm gonna ask her,
226
00:13:00,580 --> 00:13:02,920
what does she think of him?
227
00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:09,550
Being Black, I respected
him as a Black man,
especially as a Black writer,
228
00:13:09,620 --> 00:13:11,720
and you're older than I am,
229
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:15,680
so I respected you, sort of
like I respect my parents.
230
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:20,120
And you've achieved
in the world.
231
00:13:20,180 --> 00:13:22,080
Um...
232
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,680
You've gotten up... You've
made your name made to the...
233
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,080
You've made your name
known to the world.
234
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,050
Because I'm young.
I'm only 20 years old.
235
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:35,420
And you're so, like,
inspiration to young
Black people in America.
236
00:13:35,450 --> 00:13:40,350
The first time I had
the opportunity of
reading your book,
237
00:13:40,420 --> 00:13:44,080
Another Country, I believe,
this was quite some time ago,
238
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,720
but that was the first book
I ever read from cover to cover
239
00:13:47,780 --> 00:13:50,350
and I haven't read another since
240
00:13:50,380 --> 00:13:52,180
and, uh...
241
00:13:52,220 --> 00:13:55,320
Really, and I still remember
the characters and everything.
242
00:13:55,350 --> 00:13:57,820
And this is really
did a lot for me.
243
00:13:57,850 --> 00:14:00,650
I know that, from my own point
of view, you know, it was...
244
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:08,350
it was, in a sense,
all for you. You know?
245
00:14:08,380 --> 00:14:11,280
I mean, I know that I love you.
246
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,320
But...
247
00:14:13,650 --> 00:14:17,050
you haven't necessarily
got to know that.
248
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,580
You know?
249
00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:23,480
I suppose I never thought
that I would, um...
250
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,850
live...
251
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,280
to hear you say
that you love me.
252
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,680
That sounds very corny, but...
253
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:31,911
But you know what I mean.
254
00:14:31,950 --> 00:14:33,980
In his essays,
if you've read them,
255
00:14:34,020 --> 00:14:36,550
Jimmy does talk
about coming to Paris.
256
00:14:36,580 --> 00:14:40,126
Is it possible for you to
talk to him about why you
individually left the States
257
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:42,320
and compare it
with why he left the States?
258
00:14:42,350 --> 00:14:43,726
It ain't nobody else's business.
259
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:46,080
- Well, I'll tell you why.
- All right.
260
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,580
Because it's not relevant
to anyone but us.
261
00:14:49,620 --> 00:14:51,756
It doesn't help anyone
or it doesn't hurt anyone.
262
00:14:51,780 --> 00:14:54,296
We can talk about it,
but, like, we don't want
to talk to you about it.
263
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,280
I can
tell you something about it.
264
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,150
- Yes?
- Right.
265
00:14:58,220 --> 00:15:03,620
The 20 years,
22 years from 1948 and 1971.
266
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,280
And speaking, you know,
speaking now as Jimmy, you know,
267
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,180
and speaking as a Black American
who was, you know,
268
00:15:11,220 --> 00:15:14,980
who was once as young
as these children are now,
269
00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:18,020
and why I left my country,
270
00:15:18,050 --> 00:15:22,250
I left it because I knew
I was gonna be murdered there.
271
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,220
And I when I say that,
I'm not, you know, exaggerating,
272
00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:27,780
that's not
a melodramatic statement.
273
00:15:27,850 --> 00:15:31,250
I mean, that means that...
274
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,950
I mean that I could
not have hoped to live
if I had stayed there.
275
00:15:40,050 --> 00:15:43,680
I come from a country
which is very proud
of calling itself a democracy
276
00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:47,680
and is very proud
of what it calls progress.
277
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:50,880
And I'm pointing out to you...
278
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:53,950
that, 22 years later...
279
00:15:53,980 --> 00:15:57,380
boys and girls
just like I was then...
280
00:15:59,150 --> 00:16:02,750
in spite of all that democracy
and all that progress,
281
00:16:02,820 --> 00:16:07,350
had to leave the country,
our country, for the same
reason that I left it.
282
00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:10,750
1948, it was Truman
in the White House, right?
283
00:16:16,050 --> 00:16:18,420
He'd just dropped
the bomb on Hiroshima.
284
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,380
And, in 1971,
there's who in the White House?
285
00:16:24,750 --> 00:16:26,620
Dick Nixon.
286
00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:29,650
Richard Milhous.
287
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,520
What do they expect from us?
288
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,320
- The darker brother?
- Right on, right on, right on.
289
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:40,380
I've had a hard life. You know?
290
00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:45,380
Right on.
291
00:16:48,180 --> 00:16:49,950
But, my dear...
292
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,420
No, really, I know it sounds
a terrible thing to say...
293
00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,920
I would not be
a white American...
294
00:17:01,650 --> 00:17:04,580
for all the tea in China.
295
00:17:04,620 --> 00:17:07,620
All the oil in Texas.
296
00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:09,750
I really wouldn't like
to have to live...
297
00:17:11,820 --> 00:17:14,650
with all those lies.
298
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,880
Yeah.
299
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,150
This is what is irreducible
and awful.
300
00:17:22,180 --> 00:17:26,980
You, the English, you,
the French, you, the West,
you, the Christians.
301
00:17:27,020 --> 00:17:31,680
You can't help but feel
that there is something
that you can do for me.
302
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,050
That you can save me.
303
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,750
And you don't yet know...
304
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,580
that I have endured
your salvations so long,
305
00:17:45,620 --> 00:17:46,980
I cannot afford it any more.
306
00:17:47,020 --> 00:17:50,250
Not another moment
of your salvation.
307
00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:52,950
But I'm not saying it's...
308
00:17:52,980 --> 00:17:56,480
And that I...
I... I...
309
00:17:58,550 --> 00:18:00,880
I can save you.
310
00:18:02,220 --> 00:18:05,350
I know something about you.
311
00:18:05,380 --> 00:18:07,550
Right on.
Tell him. Give it to him!
312
00:18:07,580 --> 00:18:10,226
I know something about you.
You don't know
anything about me.
313
00:18:10,250 --> 00:18:12,250
- Amen.
- Right on.
314
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,120
And that is where it really is.
315
00:18:15,180 --> 00:18:18,380
You could find out like this.
316
00:18:19,450 --> 00:18:22,550
It's a matter almost of a
division of - how can I put it?
317
00:18:22,580 --> 00:18:26,150
- Division of labor.
- Division of labor, thank you.
318
00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:29,580
He can do some things
that you can't do.
319
00:18:29,620 --> 00:18:32,820
You can do some things
that he can't do.
320
00:18:32,850 --> 00:18:35,150
I can do some things
that neither of you can do.
321
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:42,350
You know, I know I can't drive
a truck. And I can't run a bank.
322
00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:44,850
- And I can't count.
- Right on.
323
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,520
You know. And I can't...
I can't lead a movement.
324
00:18:48,550 --> 00:18:50,320
But I can fuck up your mind.
325
00:18:53,780 --> 00:18:56,680
He can straighten up
your mind too.
326
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:01,220
What's gonna happen,
sooner or later, all the
wretched of the earth...
327
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,820
in one way or another...
328
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:10,080
next Tuesday
or next Wednesday...
329
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,180
will destroy the cobblestones
330
00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:17,950
on which London
and Rome and Paris are built.
331
00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:23,850
The world will change,
because it has to change.
332
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:27,020
And the Pope will die...
333
00:19:28,750 --> 00:19:31,050
because the church
is a criminal church.
334
00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:35,350
The party is over.
335
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,580
That is what is going to happen.
336
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:46,950
- Right on.
- Right on.
337
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,520
It was only
after this group witness
338
00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:56,820
that Baldwin finally agreed
to talk personally
339
00:19:56,850 --> 00:19:58,480
about his difficult position
340
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,350
as a political figure
and a creative writer.
341
00:20:01,380 --> 00:20:05,220
After all, no-one asked me
to be a writer.
342
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,380
You know, I asked for it.
343
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,720
So, you know, I can't,
I can't really complain.
344
00:20:14,150 --> 00:20:16,850
You know,
it comes with the territory.
345
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:22,950
I was born a certain time,
in a certain skin,
in a certain place.
346
00:20:23,020 --> 00:20:26,150
And you pay for it.
Everybody pays for...that.
347
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:28,726
Do you think
you could describe yourself
348
00:20:28,750 --> 00:20:29,989
as a revolutionary writer?
349
00:20:31,050 --> 00:20:34,098
I don't know what I am.
I'm a writer in a
revolutionary situation.
350
00:20:35,820 --> 00:20:38,392
I never thought of becoming
a revolutionary, after all.
351
00:20:39,180 --> 00:20:41,520
You express your ideas
352
00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:45,480
in terms of mental
transformation on the
part of white people.
353
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,720
How much do you think
your fictional work
354
00:20:49,780 --> 00:20:52,880
is therefore stronger
than your essays?
355
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,320
In that they are
more subversive.
356
00:20:58,850 --> 00:21:01,526
It's a leading question, and
it's impossible for anybody...
357
00:21:01,550 --> 00:21:03,880
You know, I can't answer that.
358
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,350
I write the essays,
I write the books,
359
00:21:06,380 --> 00:21:08,720
and what you make of them is...
360
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:13,620
What people make of those things
isn't up to me.
361
00:21:13,650 --> 00:21:16,450
I know that, in principle...
362
00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:20,650
um...
363
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,280
a play or a novel, if it works,
364
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,780
is much more dangerous,
for the writer and the reader.
365
00:21:28,820 --> 00:21:32,720
It's much easier
to dismiss The Fire Next Time
366
00:21:32,750 --> 00:21:37,020
as an argument with
which one can agree or
disagree, like a debate,
367
00:21:37,050 --> 00:21:38,920
Whereas, in another country,
368
00:21:38,980 --> 00:21:42,120
you're faced with some
very real human situations
369
00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:46,680
with which no-one can not
identify in some way or another.
370
00:21:49,420 --> 00:21:52,050
It depends on many things.
371
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:57,250
Many people can fail to
identify with the people
in another country.
372
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,320
In fact, they do.
373
00:21:59,350 --> 00:22:03,580
You know, I mean,
in life, I mean, I'm not
talking about my book.
374
00:22:03,620 --> 00:22:05,980
But, I mean,
everybody's been in love...
375
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:07,620
Has everyone been in love?
376
00:22:07,650 --> 00:22:10,856
Everyone's had a love
which has been threatened,
don't you think that so?
377
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,050
Not on the basis
of the evidence.
378
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:16,580
If they have,
they've forgotten it.
379
00:22:16,650 --> 00:22:19,920
You can't prove it by me,
that everyone's been in love.
380
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,950
If everyone had been
in love, they'd treat
their children differently.
381
00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:27,020
They'd treat
each other differently.
382
00:22:28,420 --> 00:22:31,220
Yes, well, perhaps
that is one of the points
383
00:22:31,250 --> 00:22:33,220
in Another Country,
which, it seems to me,
384
00:22:33,250 --> 00:22:35,256
is as much about love
as about anything else.
385
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,080
- It is about love.
- It's more...
386
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:39,120
It's about
the price of love, too.
387
00:22:40,580 --> 00:22:42,350
Which is the price of life.
388
00:22:42,420 --> 00:22:44,226
Yes. People don't
seem to realize that.
389
00:22:44,250 --> 00:22:47,450
In a literal sense,
you're writing for white people.
390
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,850
Are you aware of that?
391
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,520
I'm writing for people, baby.
392
00:22:51,550 --> 00:22:54,480
I don't believe in white people.
393
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,350
I don't believe in Black people
either, for that matter.
394
00:22:57,380 --> 00:23:01,220
But I know the difference
between being Black
and white at this time.
395
00:23:02,980 --> 00:23:05,326
It means that I cannot fool
myself about some things
396
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:09,120
that I could fool myself about,
if I were white.
397
00:23:09,180 --> 00:23:12,580
But more white
people read your novels,
I believe, than Black people.
398
00:23:12,620 --> 00:23:16,450
Well, Black people may not
read them, but they steal them.
399
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,450
They sell them,
they're hot, in bars.
400
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,480
You do spend a long time between novels.
Why is that?
401
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,187
Well, I'm that kind of writer.
There's no answer to that.
402
00:23:26,250 --> 00:23:29,026
You know, some people write...
I wish I was Georges Simenon,
403
00:23:29,050 --> 00:23:31,880
he can write them in two weeks,
but I can't.
404
00:23:31,950 --> 00:23:34,720
And, you know, everybody works
the way he can work.
405
00:23:34,780 --> 00:23:36,520
I must point out, though, too,
406
00:23:36,550 --> 00:23:38,650
that I have been working,
the last few years,
407
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,750
between assassinations.
408
00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:43,556
And that doesn't make it
any easier either.
409
00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:46,520
I mean,
they're killing my friends.
410
00:23:46,550 --> 00:23:48,550
It's as simple as that.
411
00:23:50,780 --> 00:23:53,250
And have been all the years
I've been alive.
412
00:23:54,780 --> 00:23:58,120
For no reasons which, you know,
which have any validity.
413
00:23:58,150 --> 00:24:00,720
Why didn't you
just want to get away somewhere
414
00:24:00,750 --> 00:24:03,396
and sit down and write
your books? Why don't
you want to do that?
415
00:24:03,420 --> 00:24:05,420
Because I'm better than that.
416
00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:11,256
But you don't
have to be better than that.
417
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,280
Oh, I do.
418
00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:18,156
So, you don't agree, then,
I mean, when people say,
"Oh, it's okay for him.
419
00:24:18,180 --> 00:24:20,380
"He's escaped"?
420
00:24:20,420 --> 00:24:22,680
What have I escaped?
421
00:24:25,820 --> 00:24:30,450
Where, anyway,
would I go to escape?
422
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,520
To your country?
423
00:24:36,250 --> 00:24:38,250
Would I get a
political asylum here?
424
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,080
Where would
a fleeing Black man go...
425
00:24:49,820 --> 00:24:51,820
if he wanted to escape?
426
00:24:53,620 --> 00:24:55,150
There may not be, you know,
427
00:24:55,180 --> 00:24:58,350
as much humanity in the world
as one would like to see,
428
00:24:58,380 --> 00:25:00,250
but there is some.
429
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,480
There's more
than one would think.
430
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,050
In any case, if you...
431
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,080
if you break faith
with what you know...
432
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,450
that's a betrayal of many,
many, many, many people.
433
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,580
I may know six people,
but that's enough.
434
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,580
Love has never been
a popular movement
435
00:25:24,620 --> 00:25:27,920
and no-one's ever wanted
really to be free.
436
00:25:29,150 --> 00:25:32,250
The world is held together,
really it is, held together,
437
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,680
by the love and the passion
of a very few people.
438
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,150
Otherwise,
of course you can despair.
439
00:25:41,180 --> 00:25:45,850
Walk down the street of
any city, any afternoon,
and look around you.
440
00:25:48,050 --> 00:25:51,220
What you've got to
remember is what you're
looking at is also you.
441
00:25:53,020 --> 00:25:56,450
Everyone you're
looking at is also you.
442
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,280
You could be that person.
443
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,980
You could be that monster,
you could be that cop.
444
00:26:06,150 --> 00:26:09,350
And you have to decide,
in yourself, not to be.
445
00:26:17,220 --> 00:26:20,520
The logic of despair isn't
for me. Cut your throat, right?
446
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,650
But there's something wrong,
you know,
447
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,220
with someone who says he's
in despair who keeps on writing.
448
00:26:27,250 --> 00:26:29,880
Because a despairing
man doesn't write.
449
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,420
Anyway, it's too easy,
it's too fashionable.
450
00:26:32,450 --> 00:26:37,720
I'm aware, you know,
that I and the people I love
may perish in the morning.
451
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:41,720
I know that. But there's
light on our faces now.
452
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:45,450
If you live under the
shadow of death, it gives
you a certain freedom.
453
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,620
I'm perfectly happy, odd as
it sounds, and relatively free.
35155
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.