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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:02,654 --> 00:00:05,701 [suspenseful music] 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:11,359 --> 00:00:13,404 [muffled chat] 5 00:00:15,711 --> 00:00:17,408 [man] Ladies and gentlemen, 6 00:00:18,148 --> 00:00:21,021 we have a press report over the wires 7 00:00:21,717 --> 00:00:24,720 that the president of the United States has been the victim 8 00:00:25,242 --> 00:00:28,376 -of an assassination. -[crowd gasps] 9 00:00:35,731 --> 00:00:39,300 We will play the funeral march 10 00:00:39,343 --> 00:00:41,737 from Beethoven's Third Symphony. 11 00:00:41,780 --> 00:00:43,826 [crowd loudly speaking] 12 00:00:46,916 --> 00:00:49,962 ["Symphony No. 3, Funeral March" by Beethoven] 13 00:00:56,708 --> 00:01:00,364 For my generation, everyone remembers where he was on the day 14 00:01:00,408 --> 00:01:02,540 that President Kennedy was assassinated. 15 00:01:04,803 --> 00:01:08,372 President Kennedy was a hero for our generation. 16 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,686 The Kennedy assassination is the most important murder case in world history. 17 00:01:22,343 --> 00:01:25,259 It's quite understandable, I think, that, uh, 18 00:01:25,694 --> 00:01:28,262 there should be, uh, 19 00:01:29,219 --> 00:01:31,352 it should be so hard to accept 20 00:01:31,961 --> 00:01:34,964 the assassination as the work 21 00:01:35,312 --> 00:01:39,708 of one mixed-up, limited-power, 22 00:01:39,751 --> 00:01:41,623 strange young man. 23 00:01:41,666 --> 00:01:44,800 It's not Shakespearean. It doesn't fit. 24 00:01:44,843 --> 00:01:47,150 -[man 1] Did you fire that rifle? -[Lee] Just the facts 25 00:01:47,194 --> 00:01:50,414 as you people have been given, but I emphatically deny these charges. 26 00:01:51,502 --> 00:01:54,070 [Vincent] There are two realities in this case. 27 00:01:54,114 --> 00:01:57,247 One reality is that, at its core, 28 00:01:57,595 --> 00:01:58,814 this is a simple case. 29 00:01:59,336 --> 00:02:01,295 But there's another reality here. 30 00:02:02,165 --> 00:02:06,952 Because of the unceasing and fanatical obsession 31 00:02:07,562 --> 00:02:10,608 of thousands of Warren Commission critics, 32 00:02:10,652 --> 00:02:12,219 the conspiracy theorists, 33 00:02:12,828 --> 00:02:16,266 it's now the most complex murder case 34 00:02:16,310 --> 00:02:18,790 by far in world history. 35 00:02:18,834 --> 00:02:21,097 Nothing even remotely comes close. 36 00:02:21,141 --> 00:02:23,969 -[muffled chat] -[man 1] Do you have anything to say in your defense? 37 00:02:24,013 --> 00:02:25,014 [gunshot fires] 38 00:02:25,971 --> 00:02:27,147 [man 2] There was a shot. 39 00:02:27,495 --> 00:02:30,062 Oswald has been shot. Holy mackerel. 40 00:02:30,715 --> 00:02:34,066 [Lloyd] The man whom the commission concluded killed the President 41 00:02:34,110 --> 00:02:38,070 was himself killed in the Dallas Police Station. 42 00:02:38,114 --> 00:02:40,812 Now, that must strike people as impossible. 43 00:02:40,856 --> 00:02:42,901 [somber instrumental music] 44 00:02:54,391 --> 00:02:56,088 Hi, my name is Brendan Sheehan. 45 00:02:56,132 --> 00:02:58,047 I'm a judge in Cuyahoga County 46 00:02:58,090 --> 00:03:00,267 Common Pleas Court, in Cleveland Ohio. 47 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,444 I've always been interested in the Kennedy assassination, 48 00:03:04,009 --> 00:03:06,838 even though I wasn't born when it happened. 49 00:03:08,013 --> 00:03:11,713 My parents emigrated from Ireland around the time he was elected, 50 00:03:12,279 --> 00:03:14,716 and as the first Irish Catholic President, 51 00:03:14,759 --> 00:03:17,066 Kennedy was, of course, revered. 52 00:03:19,503 --> 00:03:21,897 On my 15th birthday, in 1982, 53 00:03:22,724 --> 00:03:24,378 my father was brutally murdered 54 00:03:24,421 --> 00:03:27,294 by a Nazi serial killer, Frank Spisak. 55 00:03:27,990 --> 00:03:30,471 Spisak had been targeting African Americans 56 00:03:30,514 --> 00:03:32,690 on the campus of Cleveland State University, 57 00:03:33,430 --> 00:03:35,867 and for some unknown reason, he killed my father, 58 00:03:35,911 --> 00:03:39,044 who supervised the Physical Plant Department at that school. 59 00:03:39,915 --> 00:03:41,656 It seemed like a random crime. 60 00:03:42,439 --> 00:03:44,615 That experience inspired me to go to law school. 61 00:03:45,529 --> 00:03:49,272 As a young lawyer, I tried cases in front of Judge Burt Griffin. 62 00:03:50,142 --> 00:03:52,362 He had been a staff lawyer on the commission 63 00:03:52,406 --> 00:03:54,669 that investigated President Kennedy's murder, 64 00:03:55,104 --> 00:03:56,758 known as the Warren Commission. 65 00:03:57,193 --> 00:04:00,240 I often asked Judge Griffin about his experiences, 66 00:04:00,283 --> 00:04:02,720 which we then turned into a seminar 67 00:04:02,764 --> 00:04:04,592 that we present in schools. 68 00:04:05,332 --> 00:04:08,422 When your teachers asked us to come out here, 69 00:04:08,465 --> 00:04:10,467 I thought, "What a great opportunity it is 70 00:04:10,815 --> 00:04:14,732 for you to actually be with someone 71 00:04:14,776 --> 00:04:19,781 who investigated the assassination of President Kennedy." 72 00:04:19,824 --> 00:04:22,697 It's something that you studied. So, I wanted to start off 73 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:24,307 by asking you guys a couple questions. 74 00:04:24,699 --> 00:04:29,269 How many of you think that Lee Harvey Oswald 75 00:04:29,312 --> 00:04:33,098 was the only person involved in the assassination? 76 00:04:33,142 --> 00:04:34,230 Raise your hands, come on. 77 00:04:35,536 --> 00:04:38,147 None, a couple. How many of you think there's a-- 78 00:04:38,452 --> 00:04:41,150 more people involved than just Lee Harvey Oswald? 79 00:04:41,933 --> 00:04:43,283 Wow! Alright. 80 00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:46,851 [Brendan] In the face of decades of conspiracy theories 81 00:04:46,895 --> 00:04:48,418 swirling around this murder, 82 00:04:49,114 --> 00:04:51,160 Judge Griffin had always been adamant 83 00:04:51,203 --> 00:04:52,901 that the Warren Commission got it right. 84 00:04:53,597 --> 00:04:55,556 Yet, today, many people don't believe it. 85 00:04:56,426 --> 00:04:58,341 What are the real facts of this case? 86 00:04:59,081 --> 00:05:00,474 How can we determine the difference 87 00:05:00,517 --> 00:05:02,389 between fact and fiction? 88 00:05:03,128 --> 00:05:04,608 Along with Judge Griffin, 89 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,045 I sought out other investigators and figures 90 00:05:07,089 --> 00:05:08,438 involved in the events 91 00:05:08,830 --> 00:05:10,135 to get the real story. 92 00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:14,139 [Howard] I think you have to try to recapture, uh, 93 00:05:14,183 --> 00:05:16,925 the enormous enthusiasm that there was in Washington, 94 00:05:17,273 --> 00:05:18,883 uh, with the Kennedy Administration, 95 00:05:18,927 --> 00:05:21,712 the young, liberal, charismatic candidate 96 00:05:22,104 --> 00:05:23,714 winning a close election 97 00:05:23,758 --> 00:05:26,630 a-- and coming into a, an administration 98 00:05:26,674 --> 00:05:29,590 with a commitment to talent, meritocracy, 99 00:05:30,112 --> 00:05:31,679 meeting the needs of the country, 100 00:05:31,722 --> 00:05:33,463 whether they be foreign or domestic. 101 00:05:33,507 --> 00:05:34,464 [crowd cheering] 102 00:05:34,508 --> 00:05:36,466 We shall pay any price, 103 00:05:37,554 --> 00:05:39,251 bear any burden, 104 00:05:40,209 --> 00:05:41,819 meet any hardship, 105 00:05:42,733 --> 00:05:44,605 support any friend, 106 00:05:45,214 --> 00:05:47,259 oppose any foe, 107 00:05:47,999 --> 00:05:51,176 to assure the survival and the success of liberty. 108 00:05:51,220 --> 00:05:53,265 [crowd clapping and cheering] 109 00:05:54,745 --> 00:05:56,617 There was tremendous optimism at the time 110 00:05:56,660 --> 00:05:58,619 of President Kennedy's inauguration, 111 00:05:58,662 --> 00:06:00,708 but it was the height of the Cold War, 112 00:06:00,751 --> 00:06:03,101 and the threat of nuclear war was very high. 113 00:06:03,667 --> 00:06:06,148 In 1959, off the coast of Miami, Florida, 114 00:06:06,191 --> 00:06:09,281 on the island of Cuba, Fidel Castro overthrew 115 00:06:09,325 --> 00:06:12,328 Cuban President Fulgencio Batista. 116 00:06:12,372 --> 00:06:16,071 When Castro formed a relationship with the Soviet Union, 117 00:06:16,114 --> 00:06:17,986 tensions reached a high point. 118 00:06:18,595 --> 00:06:22,164 Both President Eisenhower and the newly elected President Kennedy 119 00:06:22,469 --> 00:06:24,209 supported a CIA plan 120 00:06:24,253 --> 00:06:27,822 to aid a dissident militia of anti-Castro Cubans 121 00:06:27,865 --> 00:06:30,520 to invade the island and overthrow Castro. 122 00:06:31,086 --> 00:06:33,001 Known as the Bay of Pigs Invasion, 123 00:06:33,044 --> 00:06:35,090 it was a disaster for the dissidents 124 00:06:35,133 --> 00:06:37,222 and an embarrassment for the United States. 125 00:06:37,571 --> 00:06:40,269 And only a year and half later, when Soviet missiles 126 00:06:40,312 --> 00:06:42,706 were discovered being assembled on the island, 127 00:06:42,750 --> 00:06:45,622 the Cuban Missile Crisis brought us to the brink 128 00:06:45,666 --> 00:06:47,755 of nuclear war with the Soviet Union. 129 00:06:49,321 --> 00:06:51,411 It shall be the policy of this nation 130 00:06:51,976 --> 00:06:55,327 to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba 131 00:06:55,371 --> 00:06:57,721 against any nation in the Western Hemisphere 132 00:06:58,243 --> 00:07:02,030 as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States, 133 00:07:02,509 --> 00:07:05,163 requiring a full retaliatory response 134 00:07:05,773 --> 00:07:07,383 upon the Soviet Union. 135 00:07:08,297 --> 00:07:09,733 [C. Ellen] At the same time, 136 00:07:09,777 --> 00:07:11,692 tensions around demands for civil rights 137 00:07:11,735 --> 00:07:13,824 for African Americans were at a point of boiling over. 138 00:07:14,782 --> 00:07:16,436 This was the environment surrounding 139 00:07:16,479 --> 00:07:17,915 President Kennedy's murder. 140 00:07:19,351 --> 00:07:21,310 [Burt] The country was aware that this-- 141 00:07:21,353 --> 00:07:23,094 this, this was a national disaster 142 00:07:23,138 --> 00:07:24,661 that we were facing here. 143 00:07:24,705 --> 00:07:27,534 If there was a conspiracy, ev-- we had-- 144 00:07:27,577 --> 00:07:29,231 everybody had to find that out. 145 00:07:30,014 --> 00:07:34,497 When a major political assassination occurs, 146 00:07:34,541 --> 00:07:37,544 it's almost automatic that people think 147 00:07:37,587 --> 00:07:40,503 about a political motivation for it. 148 00:07:41,373 --> 00:07:42,679 [man on radio] Here is a bulletin. 149 00:07:42,723 --> 00:07:44,899 President Kennedy has been shot 150 00:07:44,942 --> 00:07:46,988 and seriously wounded. 151 00:07:47,031 --> 00:07:51,035 [Burt] Let me kind of give you my first reaction when I heard 152 00:07:51,645 --> 00:07:53,473 that the President had been shot, 153 00:07:53,951 --> 00:07:56,911 which was that this was a southern segregationist, 154 00:07:57,433 --> 00:07:58,956 uh, that was the shooter. 155 00:07:59,827 --> 00:08:01,916 And then, of course, it very quickly turned out 156 00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:04,135 that it wasn't a southern segregationist. 157 00:08:04,179 --> 00:08:05,572 It wa-- in fact, it was somebody 158 00:08:05,963 --> 00:08:07,878 from the completely opposite end 159 00:08:07,922 --> 00:08:09,750 of the political spectrum, 160 00:08:09,793 --> 00:08:10,881 a Marxist. 161 00:08:12,448 --> 00:08:14,494 And then I thought this was a cov-- this was a frame-up. 162 00:08:14,929 --> 00:08:19,150 This was the FBI framing somebody that they, 163 00:08:19,890 --> 00:08:23,415 as a part of a group, that they had been out to get for decades. 164 00:08:24,678 --> 00:08:26,244 So, uh, 165 00:08:27,245 --> 00:08:29,073 when I got to Washington, I certainly came 166 00:08:29,117 --> 00:08:31,511 with a lot of skepticism. 167 00:08:31,554 --> 00:08:32,990 There was a concern, 168 00:08:34,644 --> 00:08:36,211 after the assassination, immediately after the assassination, 169 00:08:36,603 --> 00:08:38,692 both in the federal government 170 00:08:38,735 --> 00:08:41,129 and in the Soviet Union 171 00:08:41,564 --> 00:08:44,045 as to whether Johnson would think they did it, 172 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,005 that all of a sudden we would exchange nuclear weapons 173 00:08:48,049 --> 00:08:49,833 and the whole world would end 174 00:08:50,617 --> 00:08:52,314 in the World War III 175 00:08:52,357 --> 00:08:55,491 with bombings everywhere, nuclear weapons. 176 00:08:55,970 --> 00:08:58,363 And so, to the degree 177 00:08:59,060 --> 00:09:00,409 that the question was, 178 00:09:00,452 --> 00:09:02,411 "Did the Soviet Union have a hand 179 00:09:03,107 --> 00:09:06,589 in what Oswald did in Dallas?" 180 00:09:06,633 --> 00:09:08,112 That is scary, 181 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,290 and Johnson was scared after the assassination. 182 00:09:12,726 --> 00:09:16,077 He was afraid that there were going to be additional shootings, 183 00:09:16,512 --> 00:09:19,559 and he was going to be one of them, with good reason. 184 00:09:20,168 --> 00:09:23,084 Uh, so, what an effort was made to do 185 00:09:23,519 --> 00:09:25,477 is to settle that down. 186 00:09:26,478 --> 00:09:29,525 There were bombers in the air, literally, 187 00:09:29,569 --> 00:09:31,222 SAC bombers in the air 188 00:09:31,266 --> 00:09:33,790 waiting to be told whether to go to Russia or not, 189 00:09:34,486 --> 00:09:36,358 and that's not a good thing. 190 00:09:36,401 --> 00:09:39,100 So, "Let's settle it all down." And they did settle it all down. 191 00:09:39,143 --> 00:09:41,276 We didn't have World War III. 192 00:09:43,495 --> 00:09:45,541 [suspenseful music] 193 00:09:47,108 --> 00:09:52,156 [Howard] There is, uh, something about the community interest in this 194 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,465 that bespeaks that affection and lost, 195 00:09:57,335 --> 00:10:00,948 uh, aspirations of the early 1960s, 196 00:10:00,991 --> 00:10:02,906 and it comes from people, 197 00:10:02,950 --> 00:10:06,127 for the most part, who've been disappointed time and time again 198 00:10:06,867 --> 00:10:08,738 by the Federal government's, uh, 199 00:10:09,086 --> 00:10:11,698 addressing social or economic, 200 00:10:12,089 --> 00:10:15,223 uh, ills in, in our society 201 00:10:15,658 --> 00:10:17,660 as they've emerged time over time. 202 00:10:17,704 --> 00:10:21,185 [Brendan] Suspicions of a possible conspiracy 203 00:10:21,229 --> 00:10:23,623 and speculation about the culprits began 204 00:10:23,666 --> 00:10:25,712 even before the Commission began its work. 205 00:10:26,364 --> 00:10:28,410 It became the lasting impression 206 00:10:28,453 --> 00:10:30,368 of the assassination since then. 207 00:10:30,934 --> 00:10:34,242 Former Charles Manson prosecutor, Vincent Bugliosi, 208 00:10:34,285 --> 00:10:36,244 first studied this case when preparing 209 00:10:36,287 --> 00:10:40,204 for an unscripted mock trial of Oswald in 1986. 210 00:10:40,770 --> 00:10:42,946 In the brief time I have to address you, 211 00:10:42,990 --> 00:10:44,992 address you in this historic trial, 212 00:10:45,035 --> 00:10:47,908 I want to point out what must already be obvious to you. 213 00:10:47,951 --> 00:10:51,215 That Lee Harvey Oswald and Lee Harvey Oswald alone 214 00:10:51,607 --> 00:10:54,479 was responsible for the assassination of John F. Kennedy. 215 00:10:55,263 --> 00:10:58,701 [Vincent] Most Americans believe that the Kennedy assassination 216 00:10:58,745 --> 00:11:00,398 is still unsolved. 217 00:11:00,964 --> 00:11:04,098 The reality is that this case was solved 218 00:11:04,141 --> 00:11:06,361 by the Warren Commission when they issued their report 219 00:11:06,404 --> 00:11:09,494 on September 24th, 1964. 220 00:11:10,191 --> 00:11:12,846 And their findings were that Oswald killed Kennedy 221 00:11:12,889 --> 00:11:15,283 and acted alone. And since that time, 222 00:11:15,326 --> 00:11:16,806 over 50 years ago, 223 00:11:17,198 --> 00:11:19,983 no credible evidence has surfaced 224 00:11:20,418 --> 00:11:24,031 which would alter the fundamental findings of the Warren Commission. 225 00:11:24,074 --> 00:11:27,643 We thought there would be a great deal of appraisals 226 00:11:27,687 --> 00:11:29,732 of the Warren Commission's work, 227 00:11:29,776 --> 00:11:34,084 but nobody foresaw the extent to which, 228 00:11:34,128 --> 00:11:39,263 um, the criticisms and conspiracy theories, 229 00:11:39,307 --> 00:11:43,224 uh, would, uh, would arise. 230 00:11:43,267 --> 00:11:48,011 People seem to glom onto any inconsistent facts 231 00:11:48,055 --> 00:11:52,320 without taking, uh, account of the, the whole picture. 232 00:11:52,363 --> 00:11:55,845 Over the past 50 years, at one time or another, 233 00:11:55,889 --> 00:12:01,155 one or more conspiracy theories have accused 42 groups, 234 00:12:01,198 --> 00:12:03,287 82 assassins, 235 00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:06,856 and 214 people by name 236 00:12:07,204 --> 00:12:09,772 of being involved in the conspiracy. 237 00:12:10,773 --> 00:12:13,254 I told the jury one time, I said, "You know, folks, 238 00:12:13,994 --> 00:12:17,388 I'll agree with you, I'll stipulate that three people can keep a secret, 239 00:12:17,432 --> 00:12:19,216 but only if two are dead." 240 00:12:19,260 --> 00:12:21,305 We all know, uh, piling con-- 241 00:12:21,784 --> 00:12:23,655 you know, unsupportable conspiracies on, 242 00:12:23,699 --> 00:12:27,616 on, on a volume of conspiracies doesn't lend credibility 243 00:12:27,659 --> 00:12:30,662 to any of them. In fact, the more conspiracy theories you have, 244 00:12:30,706 --> 00:12:34,057 uh, the more you come to believe that none of them are likely to be true, 245 00:12:34,101 --> 00:12:36,190 uh, because certainly all of them cannot be right. 246 00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:39,367 I personally am unaware 247 00:12:40,063 --> 00:12:42,805 of any major event in world history 248 00:12:42,849 --> 00:12:44,111 that has been shrouded 249 00:12:44,764 --> 00:12:48,637 in so much intentional misrepresentation. 250 00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:51,988 Also, there are about a thousand books 251 00:12:52,032 --> 00:12:56,776 on the assassination. 95% of them are pro-conspiracy. 252 00:12:57,124 --> 00:12:59,561 And I have to tell you, when I got on this case 253 00:12:59,604 --> 00:13:03,434 and started learning about it, I became very disturbed 254 00:13:03,478 --> 00:13:04,827 with the conspiracy community. 255 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,352 They accused the Warren Commission of bias, 256 00:13:09,179 --> 00:13:12,356 distorting the evidence and suppressing the truth 257 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:13,705 from the American people. 258 00:13:14,141 --> 00:13:17,361 And I found out that it was they who were guilty 259 00:13:17,405 --> 00:13:19,102 of these precise things. 260 00:13:19,146 --> 00:13:21,191 [suspenseful music] 261 00:13:22,149 --> 00:13:25,282 [Eugene] If I can help in anyway, I will. I'm calling with a suggestion. 262 00:13:25,326 --> 00:13:27,458 -I've just talked to Nick Katzenbach. -[Bill] Yes. 263 00:13:29,983 --> 00:13:33,029 [Brendan] This phone call between Yale Law School Dean, Eugene Rostow, and Bill Moyers, 264 00:13:33,073 --> 00:13:35,945 Special Assistant to now President Lyndon Johnson, 265 00:13:36,337 --> 00:13:39,253 appears to be the first mention of a Presidential Commission. 266 00:13:39,819 --> 00:13:42,909 It occurred on Sunday afternoon after Ruby killed Oswald. 267 00:13:43,605 --> 00:13:46,956 The call refers to Deputy Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach. 268 00:13:47,652 --> 00:13:50,612 Katzenbach had been recently involved in an effort 269 00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:53,223 to desegregate the University of Alabama. 270 00:14:48,235 --> 00:14:50,585 [Brendan] On Monday, November 25th, 271 00:14:50,628 --> 00:14:52,239 the day of Kennedy's funeral, 272 00:14:52,630 --> 00:14:54,458 Nicholas Katzenbach sent a memo 273 00:14:54,502 --> 00:14:56,983 along those lines to Bill Moyers. 274 00:14:58,071 --> 00:15:02,640 Two paragraphs have been fathered for conspiracy theorists since that time. 275 00:15:03,685 --> 00:15:05,295 The second paragraph says, 276 00:15:07,210 --> 00:15:10,126 "The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin. 277 00:15:10,953 --> 00:15:13,956 That he did not have confederates who are still at large. 278 00:15:14,652 --> 00:15:16,524 And that the evidence was such 279 00:15:16,567 --> 00:15:18,613 that he would have been convicted at trial." 280 00:15:19,570 --> 00:15:23,183 Katzenbach goes on to state in a succeeding paragraph, 281 00:15:23,705 --> 00:15:26,273 "Speculation about Oswald's motivation 282 00:15:26,316 --> 00:15:27,622 ought to be cut off, 283 00:15:29,450 --> 00:15:31,060 and we should have some basis for rebutting the thought 284 00:15:31,104 --> 00:15:33,497 that this was a Communist conspiracy 285 00:15:33,541 --> 00:15:36,370 or, as the Iron Curtain press is saying, 286 00:15:36,761 --> 00:15:40,852 a right-wing conspiracy to blame it on the Communists." 287 00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:44,595 Often ignored is the introductory paragraph. 288 00:15:45,466 --> 00:15:48,121 "It is important that all of the facts 289 00:15:48,164 --> 00:15:50,732 surrounding President Kennedy's assassination 290 00:15:50,775 --> 00:15:54,040 be made public in a way which will satisfy people 291 00:15:54,083 --> 00:15:56,085 in the United States and abroad 292 00:15:56,433 --> 00:15:58,522 that all the facts have been told 293 00:15:58,566 --> 00:16:01,612 and that a statement to this effect be made now." 294 00:16:03,049 --> 00:16:05,442 Well, what is the role of the Justice Department going to be? 295 00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:09,359 Uh, because if we didn't know, then we learned shortly 296 00:16:09,403 --> 00:16:11,318 that there was, in fact, no federal law 297 00:16:11,666 --> 00:16:13,798 that made shooting the President 298 00:16:13,842 --> 00:16:16,192 or killing him on the streets of Dallas a federal crime. 299 00:16:16,932 --> 00:16:19,587 But Robert Kennedy made it, uh, immediately known 300 00:16:19,630 --> 00:16:22,329 that he did not want to play any role whatsoever 301 00:16:22,894 --> 00:16:26,202 in the investigation of his brother's assassination. 302 00:16:26,594 --> 00:16:28,944 And, of course, after Ruby killed Oswald, 303 00:16:28,988 --> 00:16:30,859 it was clear there was not going to be a trial, 304 00:16:30,902 --> 00:16:33,775 uh, of Oswald, but the State of Texas 305 00:16:33,818 --> 00:16:37,431 and the District Attorney within the Dallas County 306 00:16:37,474 --> 00:16:40,173 were eager to conduct further investigations. 307 00:16:40,738 --> 00:16:44,133 Two congressional committees were anxious to unleash their talent. 308 00:16:44,177 --> 00:16:47,832 So it was a, a very complicated political, legal, 309 00:16:47,876 --> 00:16:52,272 uh, situation with great national and international repercussions. 310 00:16:52,315 --> 00:16:54,709 [Brendan] The establishment of this Presidential Commission 311 00:16:54,752 --> 00:16:56,885 was intended to resolve potential conflicts 312 00:16:56,928 --> 00:16:59,061 between many different investigations. 313 00:16:59,975 --> 00:17:02,934 As a result, President Johnson appointed four members of Congress, 314 00:17:03,457 --> 00:17:07,287 Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald Ford, 315 00:17:07,635 --> 00:17:11,595 Senator John Sherman Cooper, and Senator Richard Russell, 316 00:17:12,074 --> 00:17:13,902 two members of the establishment, 317 00:17:13,945 --> 00:17:17,036 former CIA Director Allen Dulles, and John McCloy, 318 00:17:17,427 --> 00:17:19,429 who had been head of the World Bank 319 00:17:19,473 --> 00:17:22,041 and the governor of Post-War West Germany. 320 00:17:22,780 --> 00:17:25,348 And he named the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, 321 00:17:25,392 --> 00:17:27,481 Earl Warren, as Chairman. 322 00:17:28,003 --> 00:17:30,005 [Stephen] It was particularly important 323 00:17:30,484 --> 00:17:34,053 to have someone who would be above the fray, 324 00:17:34,444 --> 00:17:36,185 whom the country would trust. 325 00:17:36,229 --> 00:17:38,013 And I suppose that President Johnson 326 00:17:38,057 --> 00:17:40,015 was concerned they wouldn't trust him enough. 327 00:17:40,885 --> 00:17:44,106 There is no one, I think, in the country who could bring 328 00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:48,067 the prestige, both personal and of the institution, 329 00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:51,983 uh, to the task of finding out what actually happened. 330 00:17:53,333 --> 00:17:55,770 [Howard] The Commission's task was broadly defined 331 00:17:55,813 --> 00:17:56,858 in the Executive Order, 332 00:17:57,206 --> 00:17:59,078 to develop all the relevant facts 333 00:17:59,121 --> 00:18:01,428 and to report them, uh, to the President 334 00:18:01,471 --> 00:18:03,952 and to the, the people of the United States. 335 00:18:03,995 --> 00:18:06,041 They were subsequently given the, uh, 336 00:18:06,085 --> 00:18:09,784 the subpoena power and the ability to grant immunity by Congress, 337 00:18:09,827 --> 00:18:12,700 uh, shortly after they became operational, 338 00:18:12,743 --> 00:18:17,226 uh, and, uh, their, uh, first duties, of course, 339 00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:19,228 were to appoint a General Counsel. 340 00:18:19,272 --> 00:18:21,535 They decided on J. Lee Rankin, 341 00:18:21,578 --> 00:18:24,625 uh, who was a, a, Republican from Nebraska 342 00:18:24,668 --> 00:18:28,759 who had been, uh, brought into the Eisenhower administration in 1953. 343 00:18:28,803 --> 00:18:31,458 He was well known to Chief Justice Warren 344 00:18:31,762 --> 00:18:33,547 and largely respected. 345 00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:35,331 [Murray] I had a great deal of respect for Mr. Rankin. 346 00:18:35,375 --> 00:18:37,986 He had argued-- uh, as Solicitor General, 347 00:18:38,029 --> 00:18:41,207 he had argued the case of Brown against Board of Education. 348 00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:44,427 You know, possibly the most important case of the last century. 349 00:18:44,819 --> 00:18:47,082 Uh, and he had done it with integrity and with honor. 350 00:18:47,648 --> 00:18:51,217 [Howard] The Chief Justice was very, uh, clear that his goal was 351 00:18:51,260 --> 00:18:54,568 to investigate and determine the truth, whatever it might be, 352 00:18:54,611 --> 00:18:57,397 and lastly that he did not want to have anyone on the staff 353 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,138 who was with a government agency. 354 00:19:00,051 --> 00:19:02,750 He didn't want-- not want anyone to come in to the, uh... 355 00:19:02,793 --> 00:19:04,882 [stutters] into the effort 356 00:19:05,231 --> 00:19:09,148 with any preconceived commitment to a particular agency or outcome. 357 00:19:09,713 --> 00:19:12,238 The jobs that Rankin wanted me to direct attention to immediately 358 00:19:12,281 --> 00:19:13,456 were one, recruiting. 359 00:19:13,891 --> 00:19:15,502 And two, organizing, uh, 360 00:19:15,545 --> 00:19:17,765 helping organize the scope of the investigation. 361 00:19:19,114 --> 00:19:21,682 [Brendan] Since it was the staff attorneys who would have the task 362 00:19:21,725 --> 00:19:24,163 of performing the actual investigation, 363 00:19:24,641 --> 00:19:26,948 it was imperative to have skilled lawyers 364 00:19:26,991 --> 00:19:28,732 of unimpeachable character. 365 00:19:29,211 --> 00:19:30,647 Organized like a law firm, 366 00:19:30,691 --> 00:19:32,606 the staff was to be made up of teams 367 00:19:32,649 --> 00:19:35,478 of senior and junior attorneys from around the country 368 00:19:35,522 --> 00:19:37,437 and across the political spectrum. 369 00:19:37,872 --> 00:19:41,702 I was interesting in getting some diversity. Uh, 370 00:19:42,137 --> 00:19:43,965 all males, of course. 371 00:19:44,008 --> 00:19:47,751 Uh, you could never get away with such a commission today, 372 00:19:47,795 --> 00:19:49,884 uh, as my wife reminds me. 373 00:19:50,537 --> 00:19:54,758 Uh, and, uh, but I wanted to have 374 00:19:54,802 --> 00:19:56,412 re-- representatives of both parties, 375 00:19:56,456 --> 00:19:58,153 I wanted to have some geographical mix, 376 00:19:58,197 --> 00:20:01,765 and, uh, so I then looked for recommendations from others. 377 00:20:02,679 --> 00:20:05,465 [Brendan] The senior members recruited were Frank Adams, 378 00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:07,989 former New York City Police Commissioner, 379 00:20:08,294 --> 00:20:11,906 Joe Ball, a distinguished lawyer from Los Angeles, 380 00:20:12,254 --> 00:20:15,823 Bill Coleman, who had been the first African American clerk 381 00:20:15,866 --> 00:20:17,172 on the Supreme Court, 382 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,827 Leon Hubert, from New Orleans, 383 00:20:20,262 --> 00:20:25,049 and Bert Jenner, a name partner in a major Chicago firm. 384 00:20:25,833 --> 00:20:27,835 The junior members were David Belin, 385 00:20:27,878 --> 00:20:31,099 a Republican in civil practice in Iowa, 386 00:20:31,142 --> 00:20:33,362 Burt Griffin, a Cleveland lawyer, 387 00:20:33,754 --> 00:20:37,714 Jim Liebeler, who was leaving his job with a Wall Street firm, 388 00:20:38,106 --> 00:20:39,716 David Slawson, 389 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,328 who was then practicing law in Colorado, 390 00:20:42,719 --> 00:20:45,244 Arlen Specter, who was serving 391 00:20:45,287 --> 00:20:48,116 in the District Attorney's office in Philadelphia, 392 00:20:48,159 --> 00:20:50,901 and Sam Stern, a former Warren clerk. 393 00:20:51,902 --> 00:20:54,427 While all the named members of the Warren Commission 394 00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:57,081 and many of its staff attorneys have passed away, 395 00:20:57,473 --> 00:21:01,260 I had the rare opportunity to interview Howard Willens, 396 00:21:01,695 --> 00:21:05,829 David Slawson, Burt Griffin, and Sam Stern. 397 00:21:06,352 --> 00:21:09,398 I also had the opportunity to interview Alfred Goldberg, 398 00:21:09,833 --> 00:21:12,488 a historian with the Department of Defense 399 00:21:12,532 --> 00:21:14,447 who was brought in by Earl Warren 400 00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:17,145 with the goal of having the final report read 401 00:21:17,188 --> 00:21:19,321 more like a historical chronology 402 00:21:19,713 --> 00:21:21,758 and less like a legal brief. 403 00:21:22,672 --> 00:21:25,936 Rankin brought in New York Law Professor Norman Redlich 404 00:21:25,980 --> 00:21:27,895 as a special assistant to the Commission. 405 00:21:28,374 --> 00:21:31,202 And Norman then brought in Mel Eisenberg, 406 00:21:31,246 --> 00:21:33,814 who was an associate for a New York firm. 407 00:21:34,771 --> 00:21:38,079 Finally, additional young staff attorneys were brought in. 408 00:21:38,514 --> 00:21:39,515 Richard Mosk, 409 00:21:41,038 --> 00:21:44,390 Stuart Pollak, Murray Laulicht, and Lloyd Weinreb. 410 00:21:45,042 --> 00:21:46,827 And in the final months, 411 00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:49,351 a young law clerk for the Supreme Court Justice, 412 00:21:49,395 --> 00:21:52,006 Arthur Goldberg, joined as a fact checker. 413 00:21:52,398 --> 00:21:54,487 His name, Stephen Breyer. 414 00:21:55,357 --> 00:21:58,795 Justice Breyer now serves as an Associate Justice 415 00:21:58,839 --> 00:22:01,494 of the Supreme Court of the United States. 416 00:22:02,277 --> 00:22:04,671 [Howard] Uh, this was an extremely talented group, 417 00:22:05,236 --> 00:22:08,109 each of whom has succeeded at everything 418 00:22:08,152 --> 00:22:10,372 he had attempted during the course of his life, 419 00:22:10,416 --> 00:22:13,114 from grammar school through the practice of law. 420 00:22:13,157 --> 00:22:16,552 Here you had people from the outside deliberately chosen 421 00:22:17,466 --> 00:22:19,642 because they did not have to take orders from the Commission 422 00:22:19,686 --> 00:22:20,948 or from J. Lee Rankin. 423 00:22:20,991 --> 00:22:22,123 If they didn't like 424 00:22:22,166 --> 00:22:23,559 what this Commission was doing, 425 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:26,693 or if there was a conclusion reached that they disagreed with, 426 00:22:26,736 --> 00:22:28,172 they were free to go public 427 00:22:28,608 --> 00:22:30,044 with their disagreement 428 00:22:31,741 --> 00:22:34,440 and thereby impeach the credibility of the entire report. 429 00:22:35,005 --> 00:22:40,141 Uh, and so, it was important to not repress 430 00:22:40,533 --> 00:22:43,405 the enthusiasms and the investigative inquiries 431 00:22:43,753 --> 00:22:48,323 of some of the more, uh, talented and aggressive investigative lawyers. 432 00:22:49,324 --> 00:22:51,979 They recognized the limitations of the FBI work, 433 00:22:52,022 --> 00:22:53,850 they recognized its achievements, 434 00:22:53,894 --> 00:22:57,332 but also the fact that it was only a starting point 435 00:22:57,767 --> 00:22:59,552 and much more work needed to be done 436 00:22:59,595 --> 00:23:02,642 in order to deal not only with ascertaining the facts 437 00:23:03,164 --> 00:23:06,515 with precision and completeness, but also to, uh, 438 00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:10,998 answer this rumors that were constantly circulating. 439 00:23:11,041 --> 00:23:14,523 [Alfred] The commission had to undertake its own investigation. 440 00:23:14,567 --> 00:23:18,222 It couldn't simply rubber stamp the FBI report, 441 00:23:18,527 --> 00:23:22,662 and there were reasons for believing the FBI didn't look good in these things. 442 00:23:22,705 --> 00:23:24,707 So, there was, from the beginning, 443 00:23:24,751 --> 00:23:31,497 there was a certain amount of suspicion and distrust 444 00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:34,325 between the commission and the FBI. 445 00:23:34,369 --> 00:23:37,764 When the Commission decided to conduct its own investigation, 446 00:23:37,807 --> 00:23:39,461 it was the decision by lawyers 447 00:23:40,027 --> 00:23:42,986 that they wanted to develop a body of sworn testimony 448 00:23:43,596 --> 00:23:47,338 on the basis of which they could have more o-- uh, 449 00:23:47,382 --> 00:23:51,473 confidence in the, uh, accuracy and the integrity 450 00:23:51,821 --> 00:23:53,606 of... [stutters] the testimony. 451 00:23:53,649 --> 00:23:55,738 Uh, and they then could base their judgement 452 00:23:55,782 --> 00:23:57,436 o-- on that body of testimony. 453 00:23:59,394 --> 00:24:00,134 [Brendan] The weight of the fact-finding and initial thinking 454 00:24:00,177 --> 00:24:00,961 fell on the staff. 455 00:24:01,309 --> 00:24:02,658 It was these lawyers 456 00:24:02,702 --> 00:24:03,833 that would investigate 457 00:24:03,877 --> 00:24:05,095 the case from the ground up. 458 00:24:05,705 --> 00:24:07,924 [Howard] In middle January, the, uh, 459 00:24:07,968 --> 00:24:10,492 Rankin arranged for the Chief Justice 460 00:24:10,884 --> 00:24:14,757 to come in, uh, a-- and meet with the staff for the first time. 461 00:24:14,801 --> 00:24:16,890 And, and the Chief Justice, uh, 462 00:24:16,933 --> 00:24:19,545 after the amenities, told the staff, 463 00:24:20,197 --> 00:24:22,156 as he had told me in his chambers, 464 00:24:22,678 --> 00:24:25,986 how he had reluctantly accepted this responsibility, 465 00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:29,903 and why he was determined, uh, to ascertain the truth. 466 00:24:30,425 --> 00:24:33,080 I must say that they, in the main, 467 00:24:33,123 --> 00:24:35,212 the lawyers who were there were first rate. 468 00:24:35,691 --> 00:24:39,478 They were independent people and nobody was going to tell them 469 00:24:39,521 --> 00:24:41,828 what to do or how to do it. 470 00:24:42,698 --> 00:24:44,831 You know, what I recall most vividly 471 00:24:45,309 --> 00:24:48,269 from the-- that meeting with the Chief Justice 472 00:24:48,878 --> 00:24:52,186 was that the Chief Justice said to us, 473 00:24:52,578 --> 00:24:55,015 "Your only client is the truth." 474 00:24:57,321 --> 00:25:02,544 And that set the tone of what we did. 475 00:25:03,632 --> 00:25:04,590 And, uh, 476 00:25:05,895 --> 00:25:07,418 I wish the public could know that. 477 00:25:08,855 --> 00:25:14,121 There were no restrictions placed on the scope of our, 478 00:25:14,164 --> 00:25:15,949 uh, our investigation. 479 00:25:15,992 --> 00:25:18,473 I mean, to the contrary, I mean, we were, 480 00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:20,780 uh, given carte blanche. 481 00:25:20,823 --> 00:25:24,784 Uh, we, we were encouraged to follow our inclinations, 482 00:25:24,827 --> 00:25:28,875 follow our leads and go as far as we thought was necessary. 483 00:25:28,918 --> 00:25:32,531 I would say that all of us, at least certainly myself 484 00:25:32,574 --> 00:25:35,142 and everybody that I associated with, 485 00:25:35,490 --> 00:25:39,189 uh, we would love to have been the one 486 00:25:39,233 --> 00:25:41,583 to find a conspiracy 487 00:25:41,627 --> 00:25:44,412 or something that wasn't known. 488 00:25:45,369 --> 00:25:47,676 [Burt] The evidence was overwhelming 489 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,636 that Oswald had killed President Kennedy. 490 00:25:51,637 --> 00:25:54,422 We worked as hard as we could 491 00:25:54,944 --> 00:25:57,294 to find evidence that would refute that 492 00:25:57,338 --> 00:26:00,646 and evidence that would show that there was a conspiracy. 493 00:26:01,734 --> 00:26:06,303 For, for one thing, not only was the public concerned about that, 494 00:26:07,043 --> 00:26:09,959 but frankly, if we could find a conspiracy, 495 00:26:10,656 --> 00:26:12,527 we'd all be national heroes. 496 00:26:12,571 --> 00:26:14,137 We also knew 497 00:26:14,834 --> 00:26:19,621 that this wasn't an ordinary murder investigation. 498 00:26:19,665 --> 00:26:24,757 This, this was an event that was going to be examined for centuries. 499 00:26:26,976 --> 00:26:32,634 [Stuart] That report was written by members of the, of the staff. 500 00:26:33,809 --> 00:26:37,552 Members of the Commission, uh, reviewed what we did, 501 00:26:37,987 --> 00:26:41,469 there was input in terms of things that should be investigated, 502 00:26:41,948 --> 00:26:46,430 but the members... [stutters] of the Commission did not write this report. 503 00:26:46,996 --> 00:26:48,737 Uh, which is, of course, not surprising, 504 00:26:48,781 --> 00:26:50,870 uh, that's why you have a staff for 505 00:26:50,913 --> 00:26:52,349 and you wouldn't have expected them, 506 00:26:52,393 --> 00:26:54,090 uh, you wouldn't expect the Chief Justice 507 00:26:54,134 --> 00:26:56,397 or Senator Russell or anybody else 508 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:57,920 to be sitting down, writing the report. 509 00:26:57,964 --> 00:27:00,227 They didn't write it. That was the product 510 00:27:00,619 --> 00:27:05,711 of the staff and all of the staff were trying to, 511 00:27:07,408 --> 00:27:11,978 you know, accurately depict what the investigation had disclosed. 512 00:27:12,543 --> 00:27:15,024 My job was checking the citations, 513 00:27:15,068 --> 00:27:18,419 that is to say, looking at the underground-- underlying material, 514 00:27:18,462 --> 00:27:20,377 the FBI reports and so forth, 515 00:27:20,421 --> 00:27:22,989 which were referred to in the report 516 00:27:23,032 --> 00:27:25,426 or the 20-some-odd volumes of appendix. 517 00:27:25,469 --> 00:27:27,689 And I was pretty amazed at the degree 518 00:27:27,733 --> 00:27:29,996 to which there had been an investigation. 519 00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:32,868 Uh, I think that just-- I was doing, 520 00:27:32,912 --> 00:27:38,700 I think, a part of a year of, uh, Lee Harvey Oswald's life. 521 00:27:38,744 --> 00:27:40,789 And they've knew, virtually, where he was 522 00:27:40,833 --> 00:27:42,573 at almost every second. 523 00:27:42,617 --> 00:27:45,707 Ninety four witnesses appeared before the Commission, 524 00:27:46,490 --> 00:27:49,929 395 depositions were taken by staff lawyers 525 00:27:50,364 --> 00:27:53,193 in half a dozen or more cities around the United States. 526 00:27:54,063 --> 00:27:56,065 There were 61 sworn affidavits 527 00:27:56,109 --> 00:27:58,024 and there were two written statements, 528 00:27:58,067 --> 00:28:01,331 the latter two being by President Johnson and Mrs. Johnson. 529 00:28:01,723 --> 00:28:03,551 A total of 552, 530 00:28:04,247 --> 00:28:07,337 uh, witnesses who, through one means or another, 531 00:28:07,381 --> 00:28:11,733 provided, uh, their view of facts 532 00:28:11,777 --> 00:28:14,301 that-- on which the Commission based its conclusions. 533 00:28:14,344 --> 00:28:16,390 [suspenseful music] 534 00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:20,089 Three shots were fired at the President. 535 00:28:20,524 --> 00:28:21,917 The first shot missed. 536 00:28:22,875 --> 00:28:25,573 The second shot entered his upper right back, 537 00:28:25,616 --> 00:28:27,662 exited the front of his throat. 538 00:28:27,706 --> 00:28:30,752 The third shot entered the upper right back 539 00:28:30,796 --> 00:28:32,014 of the President's head, 540 00:28:32,667 --> 00:28:35,801 exited the right frontal portion of the head. 541 00:28:35,844 --> 00:28:37,890 [music continues] 542 00:28:43,286 --> 00:28:46,681 I did all scientific work, which means fingerprint identification, 543 00:28:47,595 --> 00:28:49,162 handwriting identification, 544 00:28:49,597 --> 00:28:52,382 fabric identification and so forth. 545 00:28:52,818 --> 00:28:54,820 The FBI had done reports on all these things. 546 00:28:55,908 --> 00:28:59,041 And then I went out and commissioned a, 547 00:28:59,085 --> 00:29:02,001 an independent, uh, scientist, 548 00:29:02,044 --> 00:29:06,048 that was true for all the, all the tasks I, I had. 549 00:29:06,614 --> 00:29:09,748 And I would depose both the FBI person 550 00:29:10,139 --> 00:29:12,881 and the independent person in front of the Commission. 551 00:29:13,577 --> 00:29:16,624 Well, I crosschecked the FBI work because there were, 552 00:29:16,667 --> 00:29:20,759 uh, suspicions about the FBI. 553 00:29:21,585 --> 00:29:26,852 Um, and so, I wanted to make sure I had an independent confirmation. 554 00:29:26,895 --> 00:29:30,986 I also, at the end, made sure that everything we did was published. 555 00:29:31,030 --> 00:29:33,946 So all the depositions, all the testimony, 556 00:29:33,989 --> 00:29:36,992 all the photographs we had, they were all published. 557 00:29:37,471 --> 00:29:40,343 And they all pointed in just one direction, Oswald. 558 00:29:40,387 --> 00:29:42,432 [light tense music] 559 00:29:49,613 --> 00:29:54,749 [Vincent] Oswald's rifle, a 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle 560 00:29:54,793 --> 00:29:57,447 was determined by firearms experts 561 00:29:57,491 --> 00:29:58,666 to be the murder weapon. 562 00:29:59,362 --> 00:30:01,495 So the weapon that killed John F. Kennedy 563 00:30:01,538 --> 00:30:04,803 was owned and possessed by Lee Harvey Oswald. 564 00:30:05,891 --> 00:30:10,678 [Melvin] Oswald had ordered a, um, a rifle by mail. 565 00:30:10,721 --> 00:30:13,768 There were, uh, fingerprints on the rifle. 566 00:30:14,073 --> 00:30:17,598 The leading fingerprint expert outside the FBI confirmed 567 00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:20,035 that these were Oswald's prints. 568 00:30:20,644 --> 00:30:22,255 There was also a palm print. 569 00:30:22,646 --> 00:30:24,866 And so, Oswald's palm print was on the rifle 570 00:30:24,910 --> 00:30:26,694 as well as the fingerprints. 571 00:30:27,521 --> 00:30:30,045 [Howard] So we have the rifle on the scene, 572 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,961 and so-- and we have the three cartridges, 573 00:30:33,614 --> 00:30:36,660 uh, that were used to fire the three shots. 574 00:30:36,704 --> 00:30:41,056 Now, there were witnesses in Dealey Plaza that day, uh, 575 00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:44,973 they heard anywhere from two to eight shots. 576 00:30:45,017 --> 00:30:47,802 Uh, the consensus seemed to be three shots. 577 00:30:47,846 --> 00:30:50,065 The Commission concluded there were three shots, 578 00:30:50,109 --> 00:30:54,330 based in part on the, um, plurality of the views 579 00:30:54,374 --> 00:30:57,072 and also the fact that there were three cartridges. 580 00:30:57,464 --> 00:31:00,032 The thing that people don't understand, 581 00:31:00,075 --> 00:31:02,599 those of us who are in the, the legal process, 582 00:31:02,643 --> 00:31:05,428 is that in every, uh, 583 00:31:05,472 --> 00:31:07,866 case, whether it be an accident case 584 00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:10,042 or a, uh, any type of dispute, 585 00:31:10,085 --> 00:31:13,915 there are always facts which are inconsistent 586 00:31:13,959 --> 00:31:18,267 with what ultimately is the assessment of what occurred. 587 00:31:18,659 --> 00:31:22,054 Uh, for example, in this instance, uh, 588 00:31:22,097 --> 00:31:23,969 some people heard two shots, 589 00:31:24,012 --> 00:31:26,885 some people heard four shots, some people heard five shots. 590 00:31:26,928 --> 00:31:29,931 So there is, there is various evidence that is inconsistent 591 00:31:29,975 --> 00:31:33,804 with the, um, the overwhelming evidence, 592 00:31:33,848 --> 00:31:36,677 including scientific evidence that there were three shots. 593 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,722 [suspenseful music] 594 00:31:38,766 --> 00:31:42,335 [Howard] So, the question is, uh, where had the rifle been, 595 00:31:42,378 --> 00:31:43,989 and how did it get to the Depository, 596 00:31:44,032 --> 00:31:45,947 and the evidence developed that the rifle 597 00:31:45,991 --> 00:31:48,819 had been kept wrapped in a blanket in the garage 598 00:31:48,863 --> 00:31:51,474 at the Paine household in Irving, Texas. 599 00:31:51,866 --> 00:31:55,914 On Thursday 21st, he went out to the garage, 600 00:31:55,957 --> 00:31:58,786 uh, and he got the rifle and he put it in a brown bag, 601 00:31:58,829 --> 00:32:01,789 he broke it down into pieces and put it in a brown bag. 602 00:32:02,616 --> 00:32:05,619 The package was found on the sixth floor of the Depository 603 00:32:05,662 --> 00:32:08,361 and inside the package were found remnants of the carpet 604 00:32:08,404 --> 00:32:11,233 in which it was kept at the Paine garage. 605 00:32:11,625 --> 00:32:13,757 After the shooting in Dealey Plaza, 606 00:32:14,323 --> 00:32:16,586 Oswald was the only worker 607 00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:19,981 at the seven story Book Depository building 608 00:32:20,025 --> 00:32:21,765 who fled the building. 609 00:32:21,809 --> 00:32:23,854 These are very, very incriminating things. 610 00:32:23,898 --> 00:32:25,682 Forty-five minutes later, 611 00:32:26,596 --> 00:32:29,338 Oswald shot and killed Officer J. D. Tippit 612 00:32:29,382 --> 00:32:30,818 of the Dallas Police Department 613 00:32:30,861 --> 00:32:33,647 when Tippit stopped him on the street 614 00:32:33,690 --> 00:32:34,735 for questioning. 615 00:32:35,127 --> 00:32:37,172 [Howard] This murder and, 616 00:32:37,216 --> 00:32:39,653 and Oswald's subsequent flight 617 00:32:40,088 --> 00:32:42,308 was witnessed by at least 12 people. 618 00:32:42,351 --> 00:32:44,266 They traced him into the theater, 619 00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:46,573 the Texas Theater, uh, at which point 620 00:32:46,616 --> 00:32:49,968 the police were called and they apprehended him in the theater. 621 00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:54,973 [Vincent] When Oswald was interrogated for 12 hours 622 00:32:55,016 --> 00:32:57,976 over a three day period by the Dallas Police Department, 623 00:32:58,498 --> 00:33:00,761 he told one provable, 624 00:33:00,804 --> 00:33:02,328 let's underline the word provable, 625 00:33:02,371 --> 00:33:05,679 one provable lie after another, 626 00:33:06,071 --> 00:33:08,464 all of which, of course, show a consciousness of guilt. 627 00:33:09,335 --> 00:33:13,165 So in my mind, uh, there's no question about Oswald's guilt. 628 00:33:13,208 --> 00:33:15,210 I'm satisfied, not just beyond a reasonable doubt, 629 00:33:15,254 --> 00:33:18,300 but beyond all doubts. It's not even an open question. 630 00:33:18,909 --> 00:33:20,955 [suspenseful music] 631 00:33:22,087 --> 00:33:24,567 [Brendan] One of the unusual aspects of Oswald's life 632 00:33:24,611 --> 00:33:26,482 was when, in 1959, 633 00:33:26,526 --> 00:33:29,007 the former Marine defected to the Soviet Union. 634 00:33:29,746 --> 00:33:33,185 Moscow-based American journalist Priscilla McMillan, 635 00:33:33,228 --> 00:33:37,058 who by coincidence had previously worked for Senator John Kennedy, 636 00:33:37,493 --> 00:33:40,235 was asked by an official at the consulate 637 00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:43,586 to speak to a new defector residing in her hotel. 638 00:33:44,326 --> 00:33:47,547 [Priscilla] So that afternoon, I went back to my hotel, 639 00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:51,464 the Metropol, and asked him if I could talk to him. 640 00:33:52,073 --> 00:33:54,423 He claimed he was a Marxist. 641 00:33:54,902 --> 00:33:57,818 And I'd not seen any Russian 642 00:33:57,861 --> 00:34:02,040 for quite a while who claimed that they were a Marxist 643 00:34:02,692 --> 00:34:06,566 and that they believed in. And, and he said he'd read Marx. 644 00:34:06,609 --> 00:34:10,091 He believed in Marx's Leninism. 645 00:34:10,135 --> 00:34:13,660 I could see that he was pretty an angry person. 646 00:34:14,182 --> 00:34:17,055 [Vincent] Oswald was a complex individual. 647 00:34:18,012 --> 00:34:19,927 He was a dyslexic, 648 00:34:20,449 --> 00:34:23,931 but he voraciously read serious books, 649 00:34:23,974 --> 00:34:26,368 mostly biographies of world leaders. 650 00:34:28,022 --> 00:34:29,545 I think he was intelligent, 651 00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:31,765 slightly on the intellectual side, 652 00:34:31,808 --> 00:34:33,549 but very, very unstable, 653 00:34:34,246 --> 00:34:38,076 and an emotionally unhinged, malcontent, 654 00:34:38,902 --> 00:34:42,645 uh, whose wife, Marina, said, "He'd only be happy on the moon." 655 00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:46,432 His life was left-wing politics, 656 00:34:47,085 --> 00:34:50,653 and he viewed himself as a militant soldier of action 657 00:34:50,697 --> 00:34:54,222 in the, uh, Marxist class struggle. 658 00:34:54,266 --> 00:34:56,311 [light somber music] 659 00:34:57,269 --> 00:35:00,446 [Priscilla] He thought he was coming to a revolutionary country 660 00:35:00,489 --> 00:35:02,187 where everything would be simple. 661 00:35:03,188 --> 00:35:05,712 But it was not simple. 662 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,019 He didn't like the bureaucracy. 663 00:35:09,672 --> 00:35:11,979 Everything you did, you had to, 664 00:35:12,980 --> 00:35:19,160 uh, go to some bureau and apply and wait for hours for an answer. 665 00:35:19,204 --> 00:35:21,162 He didn't like the food. 666 00:35:21,206 --> 00:35:23,121 He didn't like his job. 667 00:35:24,731 --> 00:35:27,777 People were cautious about getting to know him. 668 00:35:28,430 --> 00:35:30,867 Um, probably... 669 00:35:32,217 --> 00:35:34,044 they didn't like him much. 670 00:35:34,088 --> 00:35:38,397 He certainly didn't distinguish himself as a hard worker. 671 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,530 He slacked off all the time at the factory, 672 00:35:41,574 --> 00:35:43,750 but they let him get away with it. 673 00:35:43,793 --> 00:35:46,796 They treated him very, very well, 674 00:35:47,449 --> 00:35:51,061 much better than they would've ever treated a soviet citizen, 675 00:35:51,845 --> 00:35:55,631 but, uh, he didn't appreciate that. 676 00:35:56,589 --> 00:35:58,156 He thought he was special. 677 00:35:58,678 --> 00:36:02,334 And ev-- everywhere he lived he felt he was special. 678 00:36:03,291 --> 00:36:06,903 One thing we know is that Lee Harvey Oswald 679 00:36:06,947 --> 00:36:09,254 had delusions of grandeur. 680 00:36:09,906 --> 00:36:13,301 Uh, he viewed himself in a very historical light. 681 00:36:13,345 --> 00:36:17,392 In fact, his diary, he called, "The Historic Diary." 682 00:36:18,132 --> 00:36:20,743 A squad member of Oswald's in the Marines 683 00:36:20,787 --> 00:36:22,528 said that Oswald wanted to do something 684 00:36:22,571 --> 00:36:24,791 that 10,000 years from now 685 00:36:25,183 --> 00:36:26,314 people would know about. 686 00:36:27,446 --> 00:36:29,099 Uh, his wife, Marina, 687 00:36:29,535 --> 00:36:31,450 said that he compared himself 688 00:36:31,493 --> 00:36:33,103 with the great figures of history. 689 00:36:33,147 --> 00:36:35,454 So certainly we know that Oswald was someone 690 00:36:35,845 --> 00:36:37,499 who didn't just want to create a ripple, 691 00:36:37,543 --> 00:36:40,459 but wanted to change the tide of history. 692 00:36:41,373 --> 00:36:43,331 [Brendan] Lee Oswald met Marina Prusakova 693 00:36:43,375 --> 00:36:45,768 while living in Minsk, in the Soviet Union. 694 00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:49,511 Priscilla McMillan later got to know Marina 695 00:36:49,555 --> 00:36:51,426 and learn about her relationship with Lee 696 00:36:51,470 --> 00:36:54,168 when researching her book, Marina and Lee. 697 00:36:55,430 --> 00:37:00,479 [Priscilla] Well, the relationship between him and Marina went very fast. 698 00:37:00,957 --> 00:37:04,134 Very, very fast. And it makes you think 699 00:37:04,831 --> 00:37:07,877 that Marina sort of set her cap for him 700 00:37:07,921 --> 00:37:12,360 and aimed to, um, marry him. 701 00:37:12,404 --> 00:37:14,014 [gentle music] 702 00:37:14,057 --> 00:37:16,538 When they were on the ship 703 00:37:16,582 --> 00:37:18,410 coming back to the United States, 704 00:37:19,411 --> 00:37:21,500 Lee was writing the whole time. 705 00:37:22,327 --> 00:37:25,982 He was writing about his life in the Soviet Union. 706 00:37:26,374 --> 00:37:29,377 He ignored Marina completely. 707 00:37:29,943 --> 00:37:32,511 And it was very, very hard for her, 708 00:37:32,554 --> 00:37:36,210 because she was coming to a new country with a baby, 709 00:37:36,819 --> 00:37:38,299 and, um, 710 00:37:39,344 --> 00:37:41,998 he paid no attention to her at all. 711 00:37:42,608 --> 00:37:46,307 He would hit her across the face, 712 00:37:46,786 --> 00:37:49,354 and her face would get very red. 713 00:37:50,006 --> 00:37:53,706 Sometimes her eyes-- had a black eye. 714 00:37:54,533 --> 00:37:57,971 She was ashamed, you know, to let people see 715 00:37:58,406 --> 00:37:59,929 that he beat her. 716 00:38:01,627 --> 00:38:04,847 [Ruth] I first met Lee and Marina 717 00:38:04,891 --> 00:38:08,895 in February 1963, February 22nd, 718 00:38:09,417 --> 00:38:12,072 um, at the home of a friend. 719 00:38:12,115 --> 00:38:15,728 And, uh, he had invited me because he knew 720 00:38:15,771 --> 00:38:18,644 I was trying to learn Russian and that he was going to have 721 00:38:18,687 --> 00:38:21,864 a couple of Russian speakers there and thought I might be interested. 722 00:38:21,908 --> 00:38:24,476 At the party itself, uh, 723 00:38:24,954 --> 00:38:27,827 Marina would spent a good bit of the time in the bedroom 724 00:38:27,870 --> 00:38:30,308 trying to get her young daughter to sleep. 725 00:38:30,786 --> 00:38:33,136 Uh, but sh-- also, she really-- 726 00:38:33,441 --> 00:38:35,835 she couldn't understand the conversation, 727 00:38:35,878 --> 00:38:39,578 she really didn't have any English skills at that point. 728 00:38:40,013 --> 00:38:42,363 And, uh, so I went into the bedroom 729 00:38:42,407 --> 00:38:44,104 and tried to talk to her. I was... 730 00:38:46,019 --> 00:38:48,978 not real strong in Russian, but I did make an effort 731 00:38:49,022 --> 00:38:50,937 to talk and we did talk. 732 00:38:51,416 --> 00:38:55,158 And they were living in the, the Oak Cliff section of Dallas at that point. 733 00:38:55,507 --> 00:38:58,248 I guess it was the second time I went down to visit her 734 00:38:58,292 --> 00:39:00,642 in Oak Cliff during the time of-- 735 00:39:00,686 --> 00:39:02,644 Lee would've been at work at that time. 736 00:39:02,992 --> 00:39:08,389 And we went out to a park and she was telling me that, uh, 737 00:39:08,433 --> 00:39:10,304 she was expecting another baby, 738 00:39:10,348 --> 00:39:14,134 but also that Lee wanted her to go back to the Soviet Union. 739 00:39:14,526 --> 00:39:19,400 And, um, and I gathered she was seeing this as a separation, 740 00:39:19,444 --> 00:39:22,185 and that that would be the end of the marriage. 741 00:39:22,577 --> 00:39:25,580 And here she is, one child and another on the way, 742 00:39:26,102 --> 00:39:28,627 and she loved America, she really wanted to stay. 743 00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:33,545 So I was upset that that was what Lee seemed to want for her. 744 00:39:35,068 --> 00:39:40,073 I came another time to see her and, uh, discovered that Lee 745 00:39:40,116 --> 00:39:42,075 was all packed up, 746 00:39:42,467 --> 00:39:45,557 ready to go on a bus to New Orleans. 747 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,429 And, uh, in fact, he wanted a ride to the station 748 00:39:48,473 --> 00:39:50,257 with his things and I did that. 749 00:39:50,779 --> 00:39:53,565 Uh, and he was expecting-- he got a ticket for Marina 750 00:39:53,608 --> 00:39:56,481 and was expecting her to get on the bus 751 00:39:56,524 --> 00:39:59,135 with the baby and all the paraphernalia that goes with that 752 00:39:59,484 --> 00:40:02,530 and go down to New Orleans when he had a place for them to stay. 753 00:40:02,574 --> 00:40:05,533 So I said, "How about if Marina stays at my house? 754 00:40:05,577 --> 00:40:09,232 I have a phone. You can call and I can bring her down 755 00:40:09,276 --> 00:40:11,365 to New Orleans when you have a place." 756 00:40:12,322 --> 00:40:14,760 [Brendan] What Ruth didn't know was that Oswald needed 757 00:40:14,803 --> 00:40:17,197 to leave town for a very specific reason. 758 00:40:18,024 --> 00:40:19,373 [Vincent] How many people know 759 00:40:20,940 --> 00:40:24,204 that six and a half months before Oswald killed Kennedy, 760 00:40:24,552 --> 00:40:27,860 he attempted to murder another public figure, 761 00:40:28,208 --> 00:40:30,297 Major-General Edwin Walker. 762 00:40:30,993 --> 00:40:33,431 He became very popular 763 00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:37,304 uh, in the United States among the ultra-right-wing, 764 00:40:37,347 --> 00:40:42,135 because it was discovered that he was indoctrinating his troops in Germany 765 00:40:42,483 --> 00:40:45,007 with literature from the John Birch Society. 766 00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:47,009 [Burt] And for that reason, 767 00:40:47,053 --> 00:40:49,185 he was relieved of his command by Kennedy. 768 00:40:49,708 --> 00:40:53,494 But, um, Walker had come back to Dallas 769 00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:55,365 to actually be a hero 770 00:40:55,714 --> 00:40:58,368 of the ultra-conservative community, 771 00:40:58,412 --> 00:41:00,588 many of whom wanted him to run for president. 772 00:41:00,632 --> 00:41:02,111 [light tense music] 773 00:41:02,155 --> 00:41:05,637 [Priscilla] Well, Lee began sighting 774 00:41:06,507 --> 00:41:08,378 the house of General Walker. 775 00:41:08,422 --> 00:41:10,380 Marina knew nothing of this. 776 00:41:10,903 --> 00:41:13,383 He also began practicing shooting 777 00:41:13,427 --> 00:41:17,823 once he got, he got both a pistol and a rifle 778 00:41:18,258 --> 00:41:19,607 through a mail order. 779 00:41:20,216 --> 00:41:21,957 [Burt] One of the things he learned 780 00:41:22,001 --> 00:41:24,917 was that there was a way that you could shoot at Walker 781 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,006 while he was in the house from behind a fence, 782 00:41:27,789 --> 00:41:31,532 that picket fence, uh, that was behind his house. 783 00:41:32,272 --> 00:41:35,188 A few nights before his income taxes were returned, 784 00:41:35,536 --> 00:41:39,105 uh, Walker was in a back room study 785 00:41:39,148 --> 00:41:40,759 on the first floor of his house. 786 00:41:41,542 --> 00:41:45,503 Oswald was, uh, behind the picket fence. 787 00:41:45,546 --> 00:41:50,333 And Oswald shot at Walker with his Mannlicher-Carcano rifle. 788 00:41:51,073 --> 00:41:52,640 [Priscilla] He buried the rifle. 789 00:41:53,162 --> 00:41:57,427 He ran home and came home breathless. 790 00:41:58,428 --> 00:42:01,649 And he told Marina he had shot Walker, 791 00:42:02,084 --> 00:42:04,522 and Marina didn't know who that was. 792 00:42:05,348 --> 00:42:07,481 And he laid down on the bed 793 00:42:08,221 --> 00:42:11,267 very red and breathing heavily. 794 00:42:15,228 --> 00:42:19,493 But eventually he told her who Walker was. 795 00:42:19,537 --> 00:42:25,064 And then he listened that night and especially the next morning 796 00:42:25,107 --> 00:42:26,761 to the radio. 797 00:42:27,545 --> 00:42:29,547 And he said, "I missed." 798 00:42:29,982 --> 00:42:34,464 He said, "He moved his head at the last minute, 799 00:42:35,596 --> 00:42:38,643 and it's only because he moved his head that I missed." 800 00:42:40,035 --> 00:42:42,081 [somber music] 801 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,654 I think what brought Walker within the crosshairs of, uh, 802 00:42:50,263 --> 00:42:52,091 of Oswald's Carcano rifle 803 00:42:52,744 --> 00:42:57,705 is that, uh, Walker, like Kennedy, was a bitter enemy 804 00:42:58,663 --> 00:43:02,536 of Oswald's beloved Fidel Castro. 805 00:43:03,058 --> 00:43:05,539 To stand in ovations around the country, 806 00:43:05,974 --> 00:43:10,588 Walker was demanding that the United States invade Cuba 807 00:43:10,631 --> 00:43:12,807 and remove Castro from power. 808 00:43:13,416 --> 00:43:15,680 I heard later, much later, 809 00:43:15,723 --> 00:43:20,119 that, um, Marina had recommended that he move to New Orleans. 810 00:43:20,685 --> 00:43:22,469 Part of why she was saying that 811 00:43:22,512 --> 00:43:25,907 was because she knew he had made an attempt to kill somebody, 812 00:43:26,342 --> 00:43:28,867 and felt that that was the very-- 813 00:43:28,910 --> 00:43:31,913 she was very worried about it and didn't know what to do, I'm sure. 814 00:43:32,914 --> 00:43:35,264 But thought maybe leaving town would be a good idea. 815 00:43:36,570 --> 00:43:38,659 [Brendan] Before Oswald left the Dallas area, 816 00:43:38,703 --> 00:43:41,401 he had Marina snap a picture of him holding the rifle 817 00:43:41,444 --> 00:43:43,229 used in the attempt on Walker. 818 00:43:43,838 --> 00:43:46,406 In the photo, Oswald had a pistol in his pocket 819 00:43:46,449 --> 00:43:48,190 and two left-wing newspapers, 820 00:43:48,234 --> 00:43:49,931 The Militant andThe Worker. 821 00:43:50,628 --> 00:43:53,021 The authenticity of this photo has been challenged 822 00:43:53,065 --> 00:43:55,067 by conspiracy theorists. 823 00:43:55,110 --> 00:43:57,069 [suspenseful music] 824 00:43:57,112 --> 00:43:59,027 Marina, Oswald's wife, 825 00:43:59,637 --> 00:44:02,204 told the Warren Commission, told me personally, 826 00:44:02,857 --> 00:44:04,772 that she took the backyard photo 827 00:44:04,816 --> 00:44:08,646 of Oswald holding the Carcano rifle, the murder weapon. 828 00:44:08,689 --> 00:44:10,430 You know what their position is on that? 829 00:44:10,473 --> 00:44:12,693 "Well, it's Oswald's head, but it's been super imposed 830 00:44:12,737 --> 00:44:14,216 upon someone else's body." 831 00:44:14,826 --> 00:44:16,566 [Brendan] In the mid-1970s, 832 00:44:16,610 --> 00:44:18,568 The House Select Committee on Assassinations 833 00:44:18,612 --> 00:44:20,222 was able to take advantage 834 00:44:20,266 --> 00:44:23,051 of modern technological advances and methods 835 00:44:23,095 --> 00:44:26,751 to prove that the photo was, in fact, genuine. 836 00:44:30,537 --> 00:44:32,757 Lee calls on the phone as agreed, 837 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,457 he calls my house and, uh, she, she's elated, really, 838 00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:42,288 that he's called and says to her daughter, 839 00:44:42,331 --> 00:44:44,682 [speaks in Russian] "Father loves us." 840 00:44:45,117 --> 00:44:47,206 And she was eager then to go down 841 00:44:47,249 --> 00:44:48,773 to join him in New Orleans. 842 00:44:48,816 --> 00:44:52,341 So we... [laughs] piled in my station wagon, 843 00:44:52,733 --> 00:44:54,735 uh, two mothers and three kids, 844 00:44:55,083 --> 00:44:56,606 went on down to New Orleans. 845 00:44:57,172 --> 00:45:00,872 Over the summer, I, um, wrote Marina, 846 00:45:01,394 --> 00:45:04,397 a good practice for somebody trying to learn Russian. 847 00:45:04,789 --> 00:45:07,748 And then I'd learned from what she wrote that, uh, 848 00:45:07,792 --> 00:45:09,750 Lee had lost his job again. 849 00:45:10,098 --> 00:45:13,623 Lee said he was going to go look for work at other places. 850 00:45:14,624 --> 00:45:15,669 And... 851 00:45:17,671 --> 00:45:20,587 it just seemed that, that he didn't have plans for her. 852 00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:24,025 And I suggested that she could come back with me 853 00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:26,724 and stay at my house, like, until he got a job 854 00:45:26,767 --> 00:45:28,813 and that he would have saved enough money 855 00:45:28,856 --> 00:45:30,597 to have an apartment for them again. 856 00:45:31,554 --> 00:45:33,600 I think he was really quite grateful 857 00:45:33,643 --> 00:45:37,038 to have a chance for her to be with somebody. 858 00:45:38,126 --> 00:45:40,781 [Brendan] While living in New Orleans, Oswald participated 859 00:45:40,825 --> 00:45:43,218 in activities in support of Fidel Castro. 860 00:45:43,697 --> 00:45:46,134 He joined the Fair Play for Cuba Committee 861 00:45:46,178 --> 00:45:48,789 and passed out literature, deliberately, 862 00:45:48,833 --> 00:45:52,053 in the vicinity of an anti-Castro group, 863 00:45:52,401 --> 00:45:53,968 provoking a fight. 864 00:45:54,012 --> 00:45:56,492 He was arrested but subsequently released. 865 00:45:57,929 --> 00:46:00,496 Both Oswald and the Anti-Castro groups 866 00:46:00,540 --> 00:46:03,282 participated in radio and television debates, 867 00:46:03,325 --> 00:46:06,764 where Oswald continually voiced his support of Fidel Castro. 868 00:46:07,460 --> 00:46:10,376 [interviewer] In your work with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, 869 00:46:10,419 --> 00:46:12,160 uh, what are you advocating? 870 00:46:12,726 --> 00:46:14,946 We advocate restoration of diplomatic, 871 00:46:14,989 --> 00:46:17,078 trade, and tourist relations with Cuba. 872 00:46:17,862 --> 00:46:20,255 [Brendan] Marina's explanation to the Warren Commission 873 00:46:20,299 --> 00:46:23,302 was that Oswald was trying to assemble a dossier 874 00:46:23,345 --> 00:46:26,914 demonstrating his devotion to the Castro regime. 875 00:46:26,958 --> 00:46:29,830 His real goal was to leave the United States 876 00:46:29,874 --> 00:46:32,311 and go to Cuba and be part of the insurrection 877 00:46:32,354 --> 00:46:35,531 that Castro was hoping to lead in Latin America. 878 00:46:36,054 --> 00:46:40,275 Meanwhile, Ruth thinks, Ruth Paine thinks 879 00:46:40,319 --> 00:46:42,800 that Oswald's looking for a job... [softly chuckles] 880 00:46:43,235 --> 00:46:46,281 ...uh, in-- and-- uh, 881 00:46:46,325 --> 00:46:49,807 and not knowing where in the country he's going to look for a job. 882 00:46:49,850 --> 00:46:53,114 [Brendan] In truth, Oswald was headed to Mexico City. 883 00:46:53,898 --> 00:46:55,377 At the Cuban embassy there, 884 00:46:55,421 --> 00:46:57,815 he attempted to get a transit visa 885 00:46:57,858 --> 00:47:00,339 through Cuba back to the Soviet Union. 886 00:47:01,122 --> 00:47:04,560 He was denied because it would require approval from the Soviets. 887 00:47:05,213 --> 00:47:07,999 At the Soviet embassy, he was told such a visa 888 00:47:08,042 --> 00:47:11,393 would take months and require approval from Moscow. 889 00:47:12,220 --> 00:47:14,440 Oswald left Mexico City discouraged. 890 00:47:15,789 --> 00:47:18,400 Oswald is very unhappy, very frustrated, 891 00:47:18,879 --> 00:47:19,793 feels he's been, 892 00:47:20,968 --> 00:47:24,145 uh, rebuffed, if not rejected, in Cuba, 893 00:47:24,189 --> 00:47:26,060 and has to go back to the United States. 894 00:47:26,104 --> 00:47:28,149 [somber music] 895 00:47:29,324 --> 00:47:32,284 [Brendan] After Oswald returned from Mexico City, 896 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,766 again without a job, he moved into a boarding house in Dallas. 897 00:47:37,463 --> 00:47:40,858 Marina remained at Ruth Paine's home in Irving, Texas. 898 00:47:41,859 --> 00:47:46,037 I didn't really know where Lee was living, but, uh, 899 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,909 he gave us a phone number as to where he was. 900 00:47:48,953 --> 00:47:51,564 Marina and I were visiting a next-door neighbor 901 00:47:51,912 --> 00:47:55,481 and talking with, uh, a further neighbor who came around 902 00:47:55,524 --> 00:47:58,266 to coffee klatch to the women and their children in the morning. 903 00:47:58,614 --> 00:48:02,053 And, um, I mentioned that he was looking for a work 904 00:48:02,096 --> 00:48:04,882 and not doing too well getting anything. 905 00:48:05,883 --> 00:48:08,320 And, uh, the neighbor, Linnie Mae Randle, 906 00:48:08,363 --> 00:48:09,799 mentioned that her brother 907 00:48:10,148 --> 00:48:12,324 was working at the School Book Depository 908 00:48:12,367 --> 00:48:15,327 and at-- early in the fall year, 909 00:48:15,370 --> 00:48:18,417 and they were still filling school book's orders, 910 00:48:18,460 --> 00:48:20,898 and she thought there might be an opening there. 911 00:48:21,333 --> 00:48:23,248 So I translated that-- 912 00:48:23,291 --> 00:48:25,859 when we got home, I translated that to Marina, 913 00:48:25,903 --> 00:48:28,949 who asked me to call the School Book Depository 914 00:48:28,993 --> 00:48:31,125 and see if, in fact, they were hiring. 915 00:48:31,647 --> 00:48:34,215 And so I called and talked to someone 916 00:48:34,259 --> 00:48:36,826 who didn't say whether they were hiring, 917 00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:39,046 but I described this young man with a wife 918 00:48:39,090 --> 00:48:41,570 and two little girls. 919 00:48:41,614 --> 00:48:43,616 And, uh, they-- 920 00:48:44,617 --> 00:48:47,750 Roy Truly, the guy who was the personnel person, 921 00:48:47,794 --> 00:48:49,404 said, "Well, just let him come by." 922 00:48:49,448 --> 00:48:51,058 So, he didn't say there was an opening, 923 00:48:51,102 --> 00:48:53,147 but he suggested that he could come by. 924 00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:59,806 [Burt] Oswald's normal practice was to go 925 00:49:00,589 --> 00:49:04,289 to spend the weekend at Ruth Paine's house with Marina. 926 00:49:05,029 --> 00:49:08,162 But on Thursday, November 14th, 927 00:49:09,337 --> 00:49:12,253 Marina suggests to Lee 928 00:49:12,297 --> 00:49:14,212 that he should not come out that weekend 929 00:49:16,562 --> 00:49:20,087 because he'd spent three days there the previous weekend, 930 00:49:20,131 --> 00:49:23,264 the holiday weekend, and maybe the family, 931 00:49:23,308 --> 00:49:26,224 the Paine family needed some time for themselves without him. 932 00:49:27,442 --> 00:49:28,443 So he accepts that. 933 00:49:29,357 --> 00:49:31,707 [Ruth] By Sunday, she was lonely 934 00:49:31,751 --> 00:49:34,188 and I suggested I'd call 935 00:49:34,232 --> 00:49:36,451 using this number that we had, 936 00:49:36,495 --> 00:49:38,540 and, uh, so she could talk to him. 937 00:49:38,976 --> 00:49:42,283 So I dialed the number and, uh, someone answered 938 00:49:42,327 --> 00:49:44,024 and I asked for Lee Oswald and she says, 939 00:49:44,068 --> 00:49:46,331 "There's nobody here by that name." 940 00:49:46,679 --> 00:49:49,682 And also I checked the number, that was the right number, 941 00:49:50,291 --> 00:49:52,511 um, and I hang up in confusion 942 00:49:52,554 --> 00:49:54,774 and, and told Marina what had happened. 943 00:49:55,514 --> 00:49:56,776 Well, the next day, 944 00:49:57,385 --> 00:49:59,213 when Lee called as he usually did 945 00:49:59,257 --> 00:50:01,433 after work on workdays, 946 00:50:01,476 --> 00:50:06,220 uh, Marina said th-- that we had tried to call him 947 00:50:06,264 --> 00:50:09,180 and he bawled her out 948 00:50:09,789 --> 00:50:13,271 for trying to reach him and asking for him by name. 949 00:50:13,314 --> 00:50:15,012 He says he's using a different name. 950 00:50:15,055 --> 00:50:16,535 He's living as O. H. Lee, 951 00:50:16,578 --> 00:50:20,017 which is the reverse initials of his name. 952 00:50:21,061 --> 00:50:23,933 And Marina asks him why, 953 00:50:24,847 --> 00:50:26,153 and he said, "Well," 954 00:50:27,024 --> 00:50:29,417 he doesn't want the FBI to be able to find him. 955 00:50:29,461 --> 00:50:32,899 "Because," and part of this, as he explains it to her, 956 00:50:32,942 --> 00:50:35,423 is that the FBI is going to cause him to lose his job. 957 00:50:38,296 --> 00:50:39,601 She's very angry 958 00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:41,908 and stops talking to him. 959 00:50:42,343 --> 00:50:44,563 And probably what she said to him was, 960 00:50:44,606 --> 00:50:46,434 "You and your aliases." 961 00:50:46,478 --> 00:50:49,611 She knew that when he was going under an alias, 962 00:50:49,655 --> 00:50:51,309 something bad was cooking. 963 00:50:51,874 --> 00:50:55,748 Because he had gone under the name Hidell for a long time, 964 00:50:55,791 --> 00:50:58,446 and she figured out that that was really Fidel. 965 00:50:59,578 --> 00:51:01,754 And now he was O. H. Lee. 966 00:51:02,102 --> 00:51:04,800 She thought that meant he was up to something, 967 00:51:04,844 --> 00:51:06,280 she just didn't know what. 968 00:51:07,064 --> 00:51:08,543 And she scolded him. 969 00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:11,111 [Burt] He tries to call her back the next day, 970 00:51:11,155 --> 00:51:14,767 which is Monday before the Friday of the assassination. 971 00:51:14,810 --> 00:51:16,116 She won't answer the phone. 972 00:51:16,638 --> 00:51:19,511 I think it happens again, also, on Tuesday. 973 00:51:20,599 --> 00:51:22,731 So, uh, 974 00:51:22,775 --> 00:51:25,517 all we know is that here is this man who's being rejected 975 00:51:25,952 --> 00:51:27,867 by his wife, who's living alone, 976 00:51:28,389 --> 00:51:32,567 and there's a long history of other bad relationships between them. 977 00:51:34,047 --> 00:51:37,703 And, uh, and it's on the 19th 978 00:51:38,921 --> 00:51:41,707 that the route that's going to take 979 00:51:42,403 --> 00:51:45,537 the presidential motorcade past the School Book Depository 980 00:51:45,580 --> 00:51:47,321 is first published in the press. 981 00:51:47,365 --> 00:51:49,976 It's reasonable, certainly, to conclude that it was 982 00:51:50,890 --> 00:51:53,719 after that rejection that he began to think about... 983 00:51:54,937 --> 00:51:55,982 shooting the President. 984 00:51:57,201 --> 00:51:59,246 [Priscilla] So he went to work Thursday, 985 00:51:59,290 --> 00:52:01,988 and he asked Wesley Frazier, 986 00:52:02,902 --> 00:52:05,600 the Paine's neighbor, if he could have a ride out 987 00:52:05,644 --> 00:52:07,907 to the Paine's house that night. 988 00:52:08,951 --> 00:52:12,520 And he said he needed to get curtain rods 989 00:52:13,042 --> 00:52:16,176 for a place he was going to rent in Dallas. 990 00:52:17,351 --> 00:52:19,310 Frazier said, "Of course, fine." 991 00:52:19,919 --> 00:52:21,007 Gave him a ride. 992 00:52:21,573 --> 00:52:23,618 On the 21st, uh, 993 00:52:24,837 --> 00:52:26,578 uh, I had been grocery shopping, 994 00:52:26,621 --> 00:52:28,145 I bought a lot of groceries those days. 995 00:52:28,188 --> 00:52:29,842 And I came home in the car, 996 00:52:29,885 --> 00:52:32,366 and Lee was on the front lawn 997 00:52:32,410 --> 00:52:35,413 with Marina and their little girl. 998 00:52:36,065 --> 00:52:40,200 And, uh, I was surprised to see him 999 00:52:40,244 --> 00:52:42,333 because he didn't usually come out, 1000 00:52:42,376 --> 00:52:45,162 he had not come out any time except the weekend. 1001 00:52:45,205 --> 00:52:47,860 He'd never come out without asking for an invitation 1002 00:52:47,903 --> 00:52:49,122 to see if he could come out. 1003 00:52:49,644 --> 00:52:53,170 Uh, and Marina, I think, was very apologetic 1004 00:52:53,213 --> 00:52:54,780 about his just showing up. 1005 00:52:55,259 --> 00:52:58,479 Uh, and we both-- I thought that, 1006 00:52:58,523 --> 00:53:00,220 that he was kind of trying to make up 1007 00:53:00,264 --> 00:53:02,353 over the argument they'd had on the phone. 1008 00:53:02,962 --> 00:53:07,923 But, uh, anyway, he helped carry groceries into the house. 1009 00:53:07,967 --> 00:53:11,405 [Priscilla] Marina realized that Lee had come to make up with her 1010 00:53:11,797 --> 00:53:16,280 after their blowup over his having an alias, 1011 00:53:17,063 --> 00:53:18,804 and he tried to kiss her 1012 00:53:19,805 --> 00:53:22,808 when he got there, and she turned her head away. 1013 00:53:24,113 --> 00:53:29,815 And I think he tried to kiss her three different times, 1014 00:53:29,858 --> 00:53:33,297 and she turned her head away every time. 1015 00:53:33,645 --> 00:53:37,388 And he also said to her, um, 1016 00:53:38,127 --> 00:53:40,521 "Come live with me in Dallas, 1017 00:53:40,565 --> 00:53:43,002 and I'll find an apartment tomorrow." 1018 00:53:43,045 --> 00:53:45,004 He said that three times. 1019 00:53:46,527 --> 00:53:48,050 But she didn't answer. 1020 00:53:48,616 --> 00:53:53,012 It was after that, after her not answering, 1021 00:53:53,447 --> 00:53:57,582 that he went into the garage and got his gun. 1022 00:53:57,625 --> 00:54:00,324 I mean, she un-- he unwrapped it, 1023 00:54:00,367 --> 00:54:02,282 he located it, 1024 00:54:02,326 --> 00:54:04,763 made sure it was where he thought it was. 1025 00:54:05,981 --> 00:54:08,549 If she'd behave differently toward him 1026 00:54:09,028 --> 00:54:10,508 that Thursday night, 1027 00:54:10,899 --> 00:54:13,206 maybe he wouldn't have gotten the rifle. 1028 00:54:13,989 --> 00:54:15,556 Maybe he, he wouldn't. 1029 00:54:16,862 --> 00:54:18,733 The evidence is rather powerful 1030 00:54:19,473 --> 00:54:20,909 that, on Thursday night, 1031 00:54:21,258 --> 00:54:24,783 Oswald had gone to re-- try to rebuild 1032 00:54:24,826 --> 00:54:26,611 his relationship with Marina. 1033 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,615 And we can certainly speculate that if... 1034 00:54:31,355 --> 00:54:33,357 that relationship had been rebuilt, 1035 00:54:33,966 --> 00:54:35,576 if she had said, "Yes, 1036 00:54:36,098 --> 00:54:37,883 I'll come back with you," 1037 00:54:38,405 --> 00:54:40,842 that his actions might have been different. 1038 00:54:43,758 --> 00:54:46,805 [Ruth] We had dinner as usual and he went to bed very early. 1039 00:54:47,371 --> 00:54:52,114 After I had put my kids to bed with a couple of songs and stories, 1040 00:54:52,550 --> 00:54:55,248 I, um, went to finish up 1041 00:54:55,292 --> 00:54:58,904 painting some, some children's large blocks 1042 00:54:58,947 --> 00:55:02,168 that I was making and, and they were in the garage. 1043 00:55:02,211 --> 00:55:03,952 I went in and I found the light was on. 1044 00:55:04,301 --> 00:55:06,912 I thought that was kind of strange because, 1045 00:55:06,955 --> 00:55:10,785 uh, Marina didn't go in the garage much at all 1046 00:55:10,829 --> 00:55:14,223 and she was very much careful about taking care 1047 00:55:14,267 --> 00:55:15,790 of turning off lights. 1048 00:55:15,834 --> 00:55:17,749 And I thought maybe Lee had been in there, 1049 00:55:17,792 --> 00:55:19,272 but I didn't know why or... 1050 00:55:20,839 --> 00:55:23,232 what. But I did seem-- 1051 00:55:23,929 --> 00:55:27,324 this is another hint that he was distracted 1052 00:55:27,367 --> 00:55:28,890 or not quite put together, 1053 00:55:29,282 --> 00:55:30,718 that he didn't turn the light out. 1054 00:55:31,545 --> 00:55:35,506 Marina noticed in the night that he wasn't asleep, 1055 00:55:35,897 --> 00:55:37,812 that his legs were sticking up, 1056 00:55:37,856 --> 00:55:39,336 and when she kicked him, 1057 00:55:39,901 --> 00:55:42,817 he kicked back, that he wasn't sleeping. 1058 00:55:43,601 --> 00:55:44,428 Um... 1059 00:55:45,559 --> 00:55:47,692 But she was sleeping in the morning 1060 00:55:49,084 --> 00:55:52,653 when he got up, and he said, 1061 00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,745 "I'm leaving $170 on the bureau for you. 1062 00:55:58,355 --> 00:56:01,096 Get, get some shoes for Junie." 1063 00:56:04,404 --> 00:56:07,451 And she was asleep. She didn't wake up. 1064 00:56:07,494 --> 00:56:09,670 She didn't get up yet. He just went out, 1065 00:56:10,628 --> 00:56:14,327 but his voice sounded nice, sort of tender. 1066 00:56:15,459 --> 00:56:18,375 Whether he kissed her good-bye, I don't remember. 1067 00:56:19,071 --> 00:56:22,030 Later in the day, she found his wedding ring 1068 00:56:22,466 --> 00:56:27,819 in her grandmother's little porcelain cup on the bureau. 1069 00:56:28,559 --> 00:56:30,996 But she only found that later. 1070 00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:33,868 She didn't find it when she got up. 1071 00:56:35,827 --> 00:56:38,786 And we got to think about this in terms of real people. 1072 00:56:38,830 --> 00:56:40,875 It's-- it's a lot of fun to think about this 1073 00:56:40,919 --> 00:56:42,877 in terms of grand conspirators. 1074 00:56:43,617 --> 00:56:46,533 But these are real people living together. 1075 00:56:47,099 --> 00:56:50,668 Uh, his wife had just had a baby a month before. 1076 00:56:51,059 --> 00:56:53,105 He saw that, at that point, 1077 00:56:53,627 --> 00:56:56,282 his relationship with her had ended. 1078 00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:59,807 He had a job that was going nowhere, 1079 00:56:59,851 --> 00:57:02,810 he hadn't been able to establish a political role 1080 00:57:02,854 --> 00:57:04,464 for himself in the United States. 1081 00:57:04,508 --> 00:57:06,423 In fact, he had no political future 1082 00:57:06,466 --> 00:57:10,122 in the United States and he hadn't got admitted to Cuba. 1083 00:57:10,165 --> 00:57:11,602 And he didn't want to go to Russia. 1084 00:57:13,212 --> 00:57:14,866 H-- his life was over. 1085 00:57:15,954 --> 00:57:20,567 And this was a way to go out in a blaze of fame. 1086 00:57:21,481 --> 00:57:23,788 He didn't need any conspirator 1087 00:57:25,180 --> 00:57:26,573 to put him up to this. 1088 00:57:26,617 --> 00:57:28,662 [gentle melancholic music] 1089 00:57:34,886 --> 00:57:37,715 [Ruth] The next morning, on the 22nd, 1090 00:57:38,803 --> 00:57:41,283 when I got up, Lee had already gotten up 1091 00:57:41,327 --> 00:57:44,156 and been gone to get his ride into town. 1092 00:57:44,722 --> 00:57:47,812 I turned on the TV to watch the Kennedy's 1093 00:57:47,855 --> 00:57:50,902 in, in Fort Worth and watch the whole day. And, 1094 00:57:51,555 --> 00:57:55,297 uh, I had an appointment for my daughter with the dentist. 1095 00:57:56,298 --> 00:57:58,736 So, I was getting ready to leave for that 1096 00:57:58,779 --> 00:58:01,086 and I decided to leave the TV on 1097 00:58:01,129 --> 00:58:04,350 in case Marina wouldn't think about turning it on when she got up. 1098 00:58:04,872 --> 00:58:07,658 And when I came back, she was-- she thanked me 1099 00:58:07,701 --> 00:58:10,312 for leaving it on, she was, was watching. 1100 00:58:10,356 --> 00:58:15,056 And by this time, the Kennedy's were already in the motorcade coming, uh, 1101 00:58:15,927 --> 00:58:17,232 from the airport. 1102 00:58:19,757 --> 00:58:20,801 [sighs] 1103 00:58:23,456 --> 00:58:24,631 It's a terrible time. 1104 00:58:26,372 --> 00:58:27,591 Terrible memories. 1105 00:58:29,810 --> 00:58:31,769 We were watching television and we heard 1106 00:58:31,812 --> 00:58:34,989 that the President... [softly gasps] had been shot. 1107 00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:40,647 [sighs] And one of the reporters said 1108 00:58:41,256 --> 00:58:46,131 he saw a pink spray come up from the President's head, 1109 00:58:46,697 --> 00:58:48,786 and I thought, "Oh, my God, it's fatal." 1110 00:58:49,526 --> 00:58:50,788 [softly cries] 1111 00:58:50,831 --> 00:58:52,572 And I got out some candles 1112 00:58:53,181 --> 00:58:56,837 to, to light a candle, a-- and Marina said, 1113 00:58:56,881 --> 00:58:59,013 "Is that a way of praying?" I said, "Yeah." 1114 00:58:59,057 --> 00:59:00,232 [deeply inhales] 1115 00:59:00,275 --> 00:59:02,277 Uh, we just sat and waited 1116 00:59:02,321 --> 00:59:04,018 to hear wh-- what was next. 1117 00:59:04,062 --> 00:59:07,021 It was, you know, another-- almost an hour 1118 00:59:07,065 --> 00:59:10,068 before it was confirmed that he was dead. 1119 00:59:15,377 --> 00:59:17,292 Somewhere on, on the newscast, 1120 00:59:17,336 --> 00:59:20,208 it said that they thought the shot had been fired 1121 00:59:20,252 --> 00:59:21,819 from the School Book Depository. 1122 00:59:23,734 --> 00:59:28,565 I went out to tell Marina that, she was busy hanging up diapers. 1123 00:59:30,131 --> 00:59:31,742 We did a lot of diapers. 1124 00:59:32,830 --> 00:59:35,397 And, uh, I said that they thought the shot 1125 00:59:35,441 --> 00:59:37,661 had been fired from the School Book Depository. 1126 00:59:38,052 --> 00:59:39,576 And I didn't notice it, 1127 00:59:40,228 --> 00:59:44,232 didn't realize until later, but she went into the house 1128 00:59:44,276 --> 00:59:46,539 and apparently, from her testimony later, 1129 00:59:46,583 --> 00:59:48,585 she said she had looked to see 1130 00:59:48,976 --> 00:59:51,979 if the blanket was there that she knew the gun was in. 1131 00:59:53,111 --> 00:59:55,243 And she thought it was there. 1132 00:59:56,854 --> 01:00:01,815 But then it, you know, it's like four plus in the afternoon that, uh, 1133 01:00:02,555 --> 01:00:04,818 many officers from Dallas County 1134 01:00:04,862 --> 01:00:07,865 and the Police Department came to the door. 1135 01:00:07,908 --> 01:00:11,346 I know they said, "We have Lee Oswald in custody 1136 01:00:11,390 --> 01:00:12,696 for shooting an officer." 1137 01:00:14,567 --> 01:00:16,613 And, "May we come in?" And I said, 1138 01:00:16,656 --> 01:00:18,223 "Well, do you have a warrant?" 1139 01:00:18,266 --> 01:00:20,007 "No, but we could get one right away." 1140 01:00:20,704 --> 01:00:24,490 And I thought, "Oh, God. We're all upset." 1141 01:00:25,447 --> 01:00:27,885 So I said, "Well, okay, you can come in. It's all right." 1142 01:00:28,450 --> 01:00:30,627 So they came in. [chuckles] Oh! 1143 01:00:31,932 --> 01:00:33,194 You have to understand 1144 01:00:35,066 --> 01:00:36,850 how naive I was. 1145 01:00:36,894 --> 01:00:38,939 I thought we'd sit on the sofa and talk about it. 1146 01:00:39,592 --> 01:00:42,508 And the policemen sort of fanned out 1147 01:00:42,813 --> 01:00:45,293 looking over the entire house right away and, 1148 01:00:45,903 --> 01:00:50,603 uh, one of them asked whether, uh, Oswald had a gun and, 1149 01:00:50,647 --> 01:00:52,126 and I said, "No." 1150 01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:56,609 And translated to Marina, who said that he did have a gun 1151 01:00:56,653 --> 01:00:59,960 and led them to the garage and pointed to this, 1152 01:01:00,308 --> 01:01:03,181 uh, place on the floor where there was a blanket roll on. 1153 01:01:03,747 --> 01:01:04,661 Um... 1154 01:01:08,012 --> 01:01:09,187 [softly sighs] 1155 01:01:12,059 --> 01:01:15,759 The officer picked it up and it folded over his arm. 1156 01:01:16,107 --> 01:01:18,370 It was clearly an empty blanket. 1157 01:01:20,024 --> 01:01:23,505 And that was the point at which I thought it could've been Lee. 1158 01:01:24,419 --> 01:01:25,290 [sharply gasps] 1159 01:01:27,466 --> 01:01:30,861 And I'd help these officers in whatever way they need. 1160 01:01:33,994 --> 01:01:36,475 [somber music] 1161 01:01:41,785 --> 01:01:44,701 Marina didn't come back after that Saturday morning, 1162 01:01:45,397 --> 01:01:49,531 and, um, but she called and she needed some clothes for the baby 1163 01:01:49,575 --> 01:01:52,709 and, and some, uh, items that I sent her. 1164 01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:56,408 Uh, a mail began to come... 1165 01:01:56,451 --> 01:01:59,019 [stutters] sympathetic mail 1166 01:01:59,063 --> 01:02:02,153 and maybe a little donation towards Marina. 1167 01:02:02,196 --> 01:02:04,503 Then I would put those things together 1168 01:02:04,546 --> 01:02:09,726 and the Irving Police had a squad car out in front of my house. 1169 01:02:10,335 --> 01:02:12,554 And so, I'd take it out to them and say, 1170 01:02:12,598 --> 01:02:13,991 "Could you get this to Marina?" 1171 01:02:14,034 --> 01:02:15,732 And they did, I guess. 1172 01:02:16,036 --> 01:02:18,169 And one day, it included a, 1173 01:02:18,212 --> 01:02:21,999 a book that she had been reading to me from in Russian. 1174 01:02:22,042 --> 01:02:24,305 And, uh, I thought she might want it. 1175 01:02:24,349 --> 01:02:28,614 And I-- it was a housekeeping advice and information. 1176 01:02:28,919 --> 01:02:30,790 A couple of days later, 1177 01:02:30,834 --> 01:02:32,618 two men came out from Secret Service 1178 01:02:32,661 --> 01:02:35,316 and one of them was a Russian speaking person. 1179 01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:39,016 He was the one that interviewed me. 1180 01:02:39,059 --> 01:02:41,801 He said, "Mrs.--" he showed me this note. 1181 01:02:41,845 --> 01:02:44,151 He said, "Have you ever seen this note?" 1182 01:02:44,195 --> 01:02:45,892 "No, I haven't seen it." 1183 01:02:45,936 --> 01:02:47,415 "Do you recognize the handwriting?" 1184 01:02:47,459 --> 01:02:49,200 No, didn't recognize the handwriting. 1185 01:02:49,243 --> 01:02:51,637 "Mrs. Paine, you sent this note to Marina." 1186 01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,248 And I said, "No, I don't think so." 1187 01:02:54,727 --> 01:02:56,642 Um, and we went back and forth. 1188 01:02:56,685 --> 01:02:59,732 This was the first and thankfully the only time 1189 01:02:59,776 --> 01:03:03,605 somebody accused me of being... nefarious. 1190 01:03:04,128 --> 01:03:06,043 And he said, "Well, it was in a book." 1191 01:03:06,086 --> 01:03:07,784 I said, "Oh, I sent a book, 1192 01:03:09,437 --> 01:03:11,526 but I didn't realize this note had been in it." 1193 01:03:11,570 --> 01:03:16,009 And what I've learned from news accounts 1194 01:03:16,053 --> 01:03:18,795 and from testimonies later was that this was a note 1195 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,754 that Oswald had written for Marina 1196 01:03:22,102 --> 01:03:27,455 at the time in, uh, April 1963, 1197 01:03:27,499 --> 01:03:31,242 that he took his rifle and tried to kill General Edwin A. Walker. 1198 01:03:32,939 --> 01:03:35,333 And it-- it was very incriminating. 1199 01:03:35,376 --> 01:03:39,467 "If I'm taken, this is where the jail is, 1200 01:03:39,511 --> 01:03:42,993 don't keep my clothes, but you should keep my papers." 1201 01:03:44,037 --> 01:03:46,823 It was very telling to me 1202 01:03:46,866 --> 01:03:49,390 that this was authentically written 1203 01:03:49,434 --> 01:03:51,828 by Oswald to give to Marina. 1204 01:03:52,785 --> 01:03:54,569 [Brendan] After Oswald was killed, 1205 01:03:56,702 --> 01:03:57,790 Marina was living under the protection of the Secret Service. 1206 01:03:58,530 --> 01:04:00,532 The relationship was not the same. 1207 01:04:00,924 --> 01:04:04,144 Um, she was very embarrassed 1208 01:04:05,276 --> 01:04:07,017 that this had happened to me. 1209 01:04:07,844 --> 01:04:09,149 And, you know, 1210 01:04:09,671 --> 01:04:10,542 um, 1211 01:04:12,936 --> 01:04:17,766 and it-- this has been such a terrible event in both our lives 1212 01:04:18,071 --> 01:04:21,596 that it loomed when we've met together. 1213 01:04:21,988 --> 01:04:24,077 There it was, so huge. 1214 01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:27,689 We-- we shared such a terrible grief. 1215 01:04:32,303 --> 01:04:34,348 [suspenseful music] 1216 01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:37,917 [Brendan] Everything was pointing to Oswald as the killer. 1217 01:04:38,396 --> 01:04:41,268 What clues were there that he was the lone gunman? 1218 01:04:41,965 --> 01:04:44,706 Abraham Zapruder was an amateur film buff 1219 01:04:44,750 --> 01:04:46,839 who happened to be filming the motorcade. 1220 01:04:47,492 --> 01:04:49,494 This film became a key piece of evidence 1221 01:04:49,537 --> 01:04:51,670 for all of the investigations to follow. 1222 01:04:53,193 --> 01:04:54,891 [Howard] Four or five members of the staff, 1223 01:04:54,934 --> 01:04:57,850 supplemented by FBI and Secret Service Agents, 1224 01:04:57,894 --> 01:05:00,374 sat down with the Zapruder film repeatedly 1225 01:05:00,418 --> 01:05:04,857 and tried to analyze exactly, uh, which bullets had hit whom, 1226 01:05:05,205 --> 01:05:07,207 uh, in the vehicle and in what order. 1227 01:05:07,991 --> 01:05:10,863 Eventually, the consensus of the group was that, 1228 01:05:10,907 --> 01:05:13,431 making rough judgements as to when the President 1229 01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:18,044 first began to exhibit signs that he had been wounded, 1230 01:05:19,654 --> 01:05:25,573 uh, and examining Connally's first evidence of being wounded, 1231 01:05:25,965 --> 01:05:28,315 uh, that it is unlikely 1232 01:05:29,099 --> 01:05:31,405 that there was time within that interval 1233 01:05:31,449 --> 01:05:34,191 for a separate shot to be fired 1234 01:05:34,931 --> 01:05:36,802 by Oswald from the same weapon. 1235 01:05:37,759 --> 01:05:42,329 And that produced early on a hypothesis that, uh, 1236 01:05:42,677 --> 01:05:47,508 a single bullet, uh, had, uh, wounded both the President in his back 1237 01:05:47,552 --> 01:05:49,293 and exiting from his throat 1238 01:05:49,336 --> 01:05:52,644 and then, uh, entering, uh, Connally's, uh, body 1239 01:05:52,687 --> 01:05:55,473 to create his injuries in his back, 1240 01:05:55,516 --> 01:05:57,127 his wrist, and his thigh. 1241 01:05:58,258 --> 01:06:02,349 So, from that examination and debate, uh... 1242 01:06:02,741 --> 01:06:05,091 [stuttering] emerged a growing conviction 1243 01:06:05,135 --> 01:06:10,009 that the FBI conclusion in both the first and secondary reports 1244 01:06:10,531 --> 01:06:12,969 uh, as to the wounds 1245 01:06:13,012 --> 01:06:14,971 and the impact of the bullets was incorrect, 1246 01:06:15,406 --> 01:06:18,975 uh, and it led eventually to a reenactment 1247 01:06:19,366 --> 01:06:24,719 o-- of the, uh, motorcade and, and the assassination, 1248 01:06:24,763 --> 01:06:27,418 uh, that the staff recommended 1249 01:06:27,809 --> 01:06:31,335 and-- to Rankin and it was opposed 1250 01:06:31,378 --> 01:06:34,033 by both the FBI and the Secret Service. 1251 01:06:34,642 --> 01:06:37,384 And so, what one did during the, uh, 1252 01:06:37,428 --> 01:06:40,170 the reenactment was to line up, uh, 1253 01:06:40,735 --> 01:06:43,390 agents who pretended to be sitting 1254 01:06:43,434 --> 01:06:45,827 in the identical position as the President, 1255 01:06:45,871 --> 01:06:48,395 with the Governor Connally sitting in a jump seat 1256 01:06:48,439 --> 01:06:50,919 below and slightly to the left of the President. 1257 01:06:51,268 --> 01:06:53,574 And from Oswald's perspective, 1258 01:06:53,618 --> 01:06:55,794 uh, there was no way for the bullet 1259 01:06:55,837 --> 01:06:58,579 to go after exiting from the President's neck 1260 01:06:58,623 --> 01:07:00,973 other than into Connolly. 1261 01:07:01,017 --> 01:07:04,063 If it had not hit Connally, then-- there is no evidence 1262 01:07:04,107 --> 01:07:06,413 that it hit any other part of the car. 1263 01:07:07,066 --> 01:07:08,763 That was more or less verified 1264 01:07:08,807 --> 01:07:10,678 because, you know, the answer is, 1265 01:07:10,722 --> 01:07:12,419 to the single bullet theory is, 1266 01:07:12,463 --> 01:07:14,378 well, how else can you explain 1267 01:07:14,421 --> 01:07:16,945 the bullet that exited from the President's throat? 1268 01:07:16,989 --> 01:07:21,602 An-- and the fact is that there is no logical answer 1269 01:07:21,646 --> 01:07:24,866 and that the early description of, of the single bullet 1270 01:07:24,910 --> 01:07:27,391 wounding both people being a magic bullet 1271 01:07:27,782 --> 01:07:30,655 is, in fact, quite-- in the contrary point is true, 1272 01:07:30,698 --> 01:07:34,224 that that bullet, uh, didn't change its mind where it was going. 1273 01:07:34,528 --> 01:07:36,139 Uh, it exited from the President's throat 1274 01:07:36,182 --> 01:07:38,358 on a, on a downward trajectory 1275 01:07:38,402 --> 01:07:40,404 a-- and wounded Governor Connally. 1276 01:07:41,448 --> 01:07:45,626 Governor Connally insisted then and until his death 1277 01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:48,107 that he had not been hit by the same bullet 1278 01:07:48,151 --> 01:07:49,065 that hit the President. 1279 01:07:49,761 --> 01:07:51,197 Uh, as I have said, 1280 01:07:51,241 --> 01:07:52,851 he was the Governor of Texas, 1281 01:07:52,894 --> 01:07:54,287 he wanted his own bullet. 1282 01:07:55,593 --> 01:07:58,596 The conspiracy theorists claim that the second bullet 1283 01:07:59,162 --> 01:08:01,773 was the magic bullet, but there was no magic bullet. 1284 01:08:01,816 --> 01:08:05,820 That's just a myth, an invention of the conspiracy theorists. 1285 01:08:06,604 --> 01:08:08,562 What they do in their sketches, 1286 01:08:09,476 --> 01:08:11,609 they place Governor Connally 1287 01:08:11,652 --> 01:08:15,178 directly in front of President Kennedy 1288 01:08:15,221 --> 01:08:17,832 in the presidential limousine, which he was not. 1289 01:08:18,964 --> 01:08:22,141 And then they argue that a shot fired 1290 01:08:23,011 --> 01:08:27,407 from right to left on a downward trajectory 1291 01:08:28,060 --> 01:08:29,322 towards the President 1292 01:08:30,976 --> 01:08:34,719 and passing on a straight line through the president's body. 1293 01:08:34,762 --> 01:08:38,070 Once it exited the front of the president's body, 1294 01:08:38,114 --> 01:08:42,074 to hit Connally, they say, it would've had to make a right turn in midair 1295 01:08:42,118 --> 01:08:43,989 and then make a left turn in midair. 1296 01:08:44,511 --> 01:08:47,166 Well, of course, if you start out with an erroneous premise, 1297 01:08:47,210 --> 01:08:49,212 everything that follows makes a heck of a lot of sense. 1298 01:08:49,255 --> 01:08:50,778 The only problem is that it's wrong. 1299 01:08:51,518 --> 01:08:53,868 Uh, the reality is that Connally 1300 01:08:53,912 --> 01:08:56,175 was not seated directly in front of the president. 1301 01:08:56,219 --> 01:08:57,959 He was seated in a jump seat 1302 01:08:58,003 --> 01:09:00,745 to the President's, uh, left front. 1303 01:09:01,441 --> 01:09:04,227 So the orientation of Connally's body 1304 01:09:04,270 --> 01:09:06,490 vis-à-vis Kennedy's was such 1305 01:09:07,143 --> 01:09:10,624 that a bullet passing on a straight line through the president's body 1306 01:09:11,234 --> 01:09:13,192 would've had to go on and hit Connally 1307 01:09:13,236 --> 01:09:15,368 for the simple reason it had nowhere else to go. 1308 01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:18,937 [Brendan] The House Select Committee on Assassinations also looked 1309 01:09:18,980 --> 01:09:21,287 into this during their investigation 1310 01:09:21,331 --> 01:09:22,984 in the mid-1970s. 1311 01:09:23,942 --> 01:09:26,379 So, the question is, what's the nature of the wound 1312 01:09:26,423 --> 01:09:28,207 in th-- in John Connally's back? 1313 01:09:29,121 --> 01:09:32,777 And I can testify to this. 1314 01:09:32,820 --> 01:09:35,345 I asked John Connally in my office, 1315 01:09:35,823 --> 01:09:37,216 who's standing there with his wife, 1316 01:09:37,260 --> 01:09:38,652 "Would you take your shirt off?" 1317 01:09:39,218 --> 01:09:41,742 So, I got him to take his shirt off 1318 01:09:42,090 --> 01:09:43,701 and he still has the wound, 1319 01:09:43,744 --> 01:09:48,140 not anymore, and the wound is not an entry wound 1320 01:09:48,184 --> 01:09:50,186 in a sense that the bullet is coming 1321 01:09:50,577 --> 01:09:52,362 with not having hit anything else. 1322 01:09:52,884 --> 01:09:54,625 When a bullet hits something, 1323 01:09:54,668 --> 01:09:56,801 it-- the-- it's called tumbling. 1324 01:09:57,497 --> 01:09:59,804 And the bullet that hit Kennedy's, I mean, 1325 01:10:00,239 --> 01:10:02,415 John Connally's back had tumbled 1326 01:10:02,459 --> 01:10:04,330 and actually came in to hit it this way. 1327 01:10:05,331 --> 01:10:09,379 And so the wound in his back is oval, 1328 01:10:10,031 --> 01:10:12,947 indicating that the bullet that hit him was not coming straight, 1329 01:10:14,384 --> 01:10:16,603 which is an indication that it hit something else. 1330 01:10:17,169 --> 01:10:19,084 So, our conclusion, unequivocally, 1331 01:10:19,954 --> 01:10:21,260 two shots from behind, 1332 01:10:22,218 --> 01:10:23,828 uh, Depository. 1333 01:10:24,872 --> 01:10:28,920 And one shot went through President Kennedy 1334 01:10:28,963 --> 01:10:30,313 and struck Governor Connally? 1335 01:10:30,661 --> 01:10:33,838 Correct. And so that the Warren Commission's posit 1336 01:10:33,881 --> 01:10:36,623 of a single bullet theory was correct. 1337 01:10:37,581 --> 01:10:39,191 -Now... -Now we proved it. 1338 01:10:39,931 --> 01:10:42,107 We didn't hypothesize it, we proved it. 1339 01:10:44,065 --> 01:10:46,677 Now, there's another reason why the conspiracy theorists 1340 01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,767 alleged that this was a magic bullet. 1341 01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:53,292 They claimed that when it was recovered, 1342 01:10:53,771 --> 01:10:56,861 it was in pristine condition. 1343 01:10:56,904 --> 01:10:59,167 And they said, "How could that be? It went through two bodies, 1344 01:10:59,211 --> 01:11:00,821 Connally's body and the President's. 1345 01:11:00,865 --> 01:11:02,649 It couldn't be in pristine condition." 1346 01:11:03,259 --> 01:11:07,219 Uh, well, the point is it was not in pristine condition. 1347 01:11:07,263 --> 01:11:09,047 The base of the bullet, 1348 01:11:09,090 --> 01:11:12,180 which the conspiracy theorists never show in their books, 1349 01:11:12,224 --> 01:11:14,182 was badly damaged, 1350 01:11:14,226 --> 01:11:18,796 2.4 grains lost in weight, 1351 01:11:19,318 --> 01:11:21,102 so it was not a pristine bullet. 1352 01:11:22,147 --> 01:11:28,066 Secondly, this bullet was a, uh, fully metal jacketed, 1353 01:11:28,936 --> 01:11:32,418 military-type bullet designed to cause a lot of damage 1354 01:11:32,462 --> 01:11:35,682 to anything it hits without causing too much damage to itself. 1355 01:11:35,726 --> 01:11:39,077 Uh, firearms experts for the, uh, Warren Commission 1356 01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,341 and the House Select Committee both agree that that bullet 1357 01:11:42,385 --> 01:11:44,125 could have caused all the damage it did 1358 01:11:44,169 --> 01:11:46,171 without becoming more deformed itself. 1359 01:11:46,911 --> 01:11:48,434 And the thing here, 1360 01:11:48,478 --> 01:11:50,480 something-- interesting thing here and the irony 1361 01:11:50,958 --> 01:11:53,439 is that those conspiracy theorists have wrapped 1362 01:11:53,483 --> 01:11:56,137 that magic bullet tag around the neck 1363 01:11:56,181 --> 01:11:57,400 of the Warren Commission 1364 01:11:58,052 --> 01:12:00,925 for 50 years, successfully, I might add. 1365 01:12:01,578 --> 01:12:06,234 It turns out it was only they who had a magic bullet. 1366 01:12:06,974 --> 01:12:10,326 [Brendan] Another popular theory that has swirled continuously 1367 01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:12,458 is the idea that President Kennedy 1368 01:12:12,502 --> 01:12:15,418 was in fact struck by a bullet fired from in front, 1369 01:12:15,896 --> 01:12:17,550 from the so called Grassy Knoll. 1370 01:12:18,072 --> 01:12:20,684 This was fueled, in part, when the Zapruder film 1371 01:12:20,727 --> 01:12:22,468 was finally shown to the public. 1372 01:12:23,034 --> 01:12:25,515 [Vincent] The first time the American people saw this 1373 01:12:25,558 --> 01:12:27,865 was on the evening of March 6th, 1975, 1374 01:12:27,908 --> 01:12:30,955 network TV, ABC. 1375 01:12:30,998 --> 01:12:33,827 Millions of Americans seeing the President's head 1376 01:12:34,393 --> 01:12:37,135 snapped to the rear concluded and understandably saw 1377 01:12:37,178 --> 01:12:38,484 on the simple law of physics, 1378 01:12:38,528 --> 01:12:40,486 the shot must have come from the, 1379 01:12:41,008 --> 01:12:44,447 uh, right front where the Grassy Knoll was, 1380 01:12:44,490 --> 01:12:47,232 not the right rear where Oswald was 1381 01:12:47,624 --> 01:12:49,234 in the Book Depository building. 1382 01:12:51,105 --> 01:12:53,586 We have photographs of Kennedy's brain 1383 01:12:53,630 --> 01:12:56,154 and the brain has two hemispheres. 1384 01:12:56,502 --> 01:12:59,200 This is the hemisphere that faced the Grassy Knoll. 1385 01:12:59,244 --> 01:13:01,638 This is the hemisphere that faced the plaza. 1386 01:13:03,117 --> 01:13:06,077 This hemisphere was destroyed 1387 01:13:06,469 --> 01:13:08,471 by the bullet that came in the back of his head 1388 01:13:08,514 --> 01:13:10,342 and exited the front of his head. 1389 01:13:10,386 --> 01:13:11,822 Just totally destroyed. 1390 01:13:12,475 --> 01:13:14,172 This hemisphere is fine. 1391 01:13:14,738 --> 01:13:17,393 If the bullet had shot him from this direction, 1392 01:13:18,394 --> 01:13:20,613 it would've had to have dissipated 1393 01:13:21,309 --> 01:13:23,311 before it got halfway across his brain. 1394 01:13:23,877 --> 01:13:25,923 So there's no evidence in his brain 1395 01:13:26,402 --> 01:13:30,014 that the shot from the Grassy Knoll hit him. 1396 01:13:31,145 --> 01:13:33,321 Now, the people say, "Well, 1397 01:13:33,365 --> 01:13:37,413 what about the evidence of the head apparently snapping back like this? 1398 01:13:37,761 --> 01:13:39,110 Isn't that the head 1399 01:13:39,545 --> 01:13:41,678 being snapped back by a bullet hitting?" 1400 01:13:42,156 --> 01:13:44,289 And my answer is no, 1401 01:13:45,246 --> 01:13:47,379 because I've looked at the President's brain 1402 01:13:47,423 --> 01:13:49,337 and I've looked at the President's skull 1403 01:13:49,729 --> 01:13:52,210 and there's no evidence from a bullet from the front right. 1404 01:13:52,732 --> 01:13:56,475 "Well, professor, what about the snap back? 1405 01:13:56,519 --> 01:13:58,259 Do you have an explanation for that?" 1406 01:13:58,782 --> 01:14:01,959 Uh, when Kennedy's brain was hit, 1407 01:14:02,873 --> 01:14:05,963 it released electrical stimulus 1408 01:14:06,529 --> 01:14:09,575 to all of his muscles simultaneously. 1409 01:14:10,228 --> 01:14:14,362 And the strongest muscle in his body would be his back muscle. 1410 01:14:15,059 --> 01:14:17,757 And when all the muscles tighten up, 1411 01:14:18,366 --> 01:14:20,020 which one wins? 1412 01:14:20,064 --> 01:14:23,067 The back muscle, and that's what snaps him back. 1413 01:14:23,763 --> 01:14:25,983 Whatever the reason his head snapped back, 1414 01:14:26,026 --> 01:14:27,680 was he shot from the front right? 1415 01:14:27,724 --> 01:14:29,247 And the answer to that is no. 1416 01:14:31,031 --> 01:14:32,468 I know what his skull looks like, 1417 01:14:32,511 --> 01:14:34,078 I know what his brain looks like. 1418 01:14:34,121 --> 01:14:36,167 No evidence of shot from the front right. 1419 01:14:36,210 --> 01:14:37,864 So if one occurred, it didn't hit him. 1420 01:14:43,391 --> 01:14:47,134 [Brendan] My own research took me to look at the Zapruder film itself. 1421 01:14:47,526 --> 01:14:49,180 I wanted to see what I could learn 1422 01:14:49,223 --> 01:14:51,661 from closely watching some of the key frames. 1423 01:14:52,096 --> 01:14:54,533 So, can we play the, uh, film through? 1424 01:14:54,577 --> 01:14:57,841 We see the President's motorcade coming down the street 1425 01:14:58,668 --> 01:15:01,061 with the President, 1426 01:15:01,105 --> 01:15:02,236 the limousine, 1427 01:15:02,889 --> 01:15:04,325 the crowd cheering. 1428 01:15:06,153 --> 01:15:09,200 The President holds his hands to his neck, and you see the shot, 1429 01:15:09,243 --> 01:15:12,116 see the First Lady going on the back of the limousine, 1430 01:15:13,944 --> 01:15:15,598 and then, out of sight. 1431 01:15:16,468 --> 01:15:19,819 So why don't we, if we could, let's go to the fatal shot, 1432 01:15:19,863 --> 01:15:22,605 which is, I think, right before the fatal shot, 1433 01:15:23,170 --> 01:15:26,130 -frame 312 first. Alright. -[Chris] Ok, here's 312. 1434 01:15:26,173 --> 01:15:31,962 So at 312, we have the President holding his hands on his neck, 1435 01:15:33,311 --> 01:15:36,401 looking at the First Lady and the First Lady is reaching over, 1436 01:15:36,444 --> 01:15:39,012 looking at him as his shoulders are turned towards her. 1437 01:15:40,448 --> 01:15:42,973 And then, if we can go to the next frame 1438 01:15:43,016 --> 01:15:47,107 which is frame 313, which is the fatal shot, if you will. 1439 01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,632 And then, just so you know, 1440 01:15:49,675 --> 01:15:52,373 if you back it up again to 312... 1441 01:15:53,157 --> 01:15:56,073 -Here is 312. -...and then, before you get to 312, 313, 1442 01:15:56,116 --> 01:15:57,727 if you look at the line, 1443 01:15:57,770 --> 01:16:02,775 if you draw a line on Jackie's head or hat 1444 01:16:03,123 --> 01:16:05,212 and you see the back of his head, 1445 01:16:05,256 --> 01:16:10,783 it's all intact, and we see the frame right there, 1446 01:16:10,827 --> 01:16:15,396 so that clearly there is nothing missing between 312 and 313. 1447 01:16:16,441 --> 01:16:19,183 And then, the shot. 1448 01:16:20,663 --> 01:16:23,970 We see the President's head moving forward, 1449 01:16:24,580 --> 01:16:28,409 we see the President's back moving forward, 1450 01:16:29,062 --> 01:16:31,935 and we see the brain matter, 1451 01:16:31,978 --> 01:16:35,852 all moving forward to the front of the car. 1452 01:16:37,201 --> 01:16:39,072 Now, if we can... 1453 01:16:40,726 --> 01:16:44,034 move forward from frame 313 1454 01:16:44,991 --> 01:16:47,211 to frame 318, 1455 01:16:48,168 --> 01:16:51,215 you see the President's body jerking backward 1456 01:16:51,258 --> 01:16:53,304 from a neuromuscular reaction 1457 01:16:53,696 --> 01:16:56,133 as a result of the right hemisphere 1458 01:16:56,655 --> 01:17:00,616 of the President's brain being blown out from the shot. 1459 01:17:01,965 --> 01:17:04,315 Clearly, there is no evidence 1460 01:17:04,837 --> 01:17:07,971 of anything striking the President from the front. 1461 01:17:09,450 --> 01:17:11,496 [suspenseful music] 1462 01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:15,456 [Brendan] Further evidence could have been offered 1463 01:17:15,500 --> 01:17:17,894 in the autopsy photographs and X-rays. 1464 01:17:18,459 --> 01:17:20,418 But during the Commission's investigation, 1465 01:17:21,071 --> 01:17:24,030 Chief Justice Warren was so horrified by these images 1466 01:17:24,378 --> 01:17:27,033 that he refused to allow this material to be released 1467 01:17:27,077 --> 01:17:30,646 to the Commission, it's staff and to the public. 1468 01:17:31,777 --> 01:17:33,736 The Chief Justice testifi-- testified 1469 01:17:33,779 --> 01:17:36,390 and has written that he did in fact see the materials, 1470 01:17:36,434 --> 01:17:40,351 which were delivered by custodian to his Supreme Court chambers, 1471 01:17:40,394 --> 01:17:41,700 and he looked at the pictures, 1472 01:17:43,397 --> 01:17:46,226 uh, found them horrific and gave them back to the custodian. 1473 01:17:47,053 --> 01:17:51,449 And he felt that he could not let the documents be seen by a witness 1474 01:17:51,492 --> 01:17:55,061 without necessarily making them public. 1475 01:17:55,105 --> 01:17:57,629 And that's the mistake that I feel was made, 1476 01:17:58,195 --> 01:18:01,677 because the controversy about the single bullet conclusion, 1477 01:18:02,112 --> 01:18:06,377 uh, was also wide spread and it had direct relationship 1478 01:18:06,420 --> 01:18:08,814 to the autopsy materials, which were absent. 1479 01:18:09,293 --> 01:18:13,297 Uh, the combination of the lack of those materials and the inherent, uh, 1480 01:18:13,776 --> 01:18:19,520 uh, the questions raised by the single bullet theory, 1481 01:18:19,564 --> 01:18:23,699 uh, fostered a greater and stronger, uh, um, 1482 01:18:24,612 --> 01:18:26,484 body of criticism to the Commission report 1483 01:18:26,527 --> 01:18:28,355 that might otherwise have developed. 1484 01:18:28,399 --> 01:18:30,096 Uh, eventually, when those materials 1485 01:18:30,140 --> 01:18:31,707 were made available over the years, 1486 01:18:31,750 --> 01:18:34,100 21 pathologists had looked at the materials 1487 01:18:34,144 --> 01:18:36,537 supporting the single bullet finding 1488 01:18:36,581 --> 01:18:39,018 and 20 out of 21 agreed with that finding. 1489 01:18:39,671 --> 01:18:42,282 [Brendan] The House Select Committee spent significant resources 1490 01:18:42,326 --> 01:18:44,850 on modern technology for their analysis, 1491 01:18:45,198 --> 01:18:49,507 which they used to re-examine all of the evidence of the assassination, 1492 01:18:49,550 --> 01:18:52,771 including forensic pathologists to look at the autopsy. 1493 01:18:53,598 --> 01:18:55,208 [Robert] They took all of the evidence. 1494 01:18:55,731 --> 01:18:57,994 They took the autopsy photographs. 1495 01:18:58,037 --> 01:18:59,473 The doctors looked at them 1496 01:19:00,213 --> 01:19:01,301 and they determined, 1497 01:19:01,824 --> 01:19:04,522 from the bullet holes in the President, 1498 01:19:04,914 --> 01:19:09,527 that both shots came from behind him and up. 1499 01:19:10,354 --> 01:19:12,443 And they did that based on... [softly sighs] 1500 01:19:12,922 --> 01:19:14,488 ...a principle called, 1501 01:19:15,185 --> 01:19:18,623 um, abrasion collars. 1502 01:19:18,971 --> 01:19:21,887 If a bullet goes down through my skin like this, 1503 01:19:22,670 --> 01:19:24,847 it will burn my skin in a circle. 1504 01:19:25,630 --> 01:19:27,458 And if the bullet went straight in, 1505 01:19:27,893 --> 01:19:29,590 it burns a circle straight. 1506 01:19:30,374 --> 01:19:32,289 The bullet comes in from the side, 1507 01:19:32,811 --> 01:19:37,076 it burns the ci-- the circle with an oblong, 1508 01:19:38,512 --> 01:19:41,515 so, you can determine direction 1509 01:19:42,865 --> 01:19:46,869 of bullets by looking at the hole that goes in 1510 01:19:46,912 --> 01:19:49,828 and the same process occurs on the other side, going out. 1511 01:19:51,482 --> 01:19:56,313 This is an anatomically correct drawing 1512 01:19:56,661 --> 01:19:58,968 of the President as if he was standing up. 1513 01:19:59,011 --> 01:20:02,101 And we have one entry wound here in the back, 1514 01:20:02,710 --> 01:20:04,712 and one entry wound here. 1515 01:20:05,191 --> 01:20:07,803 This is an abrasion collar with an entry wound 1516 01:20:08,455 --> 01:20:12,068 and there's an exit wound on Kennedy's neck about here. 1517 01:20:13,156 --> 01:20:15,288 And-- remember, this is anatomically correct, 1518 01:20:15,332 --> 01:20:18,552 the President was in a different position when the bullets hit him, 1519 01:20:18,901 --> 01:20:20,903 and that's the one that hit him in the head. 1520 01:20:21,947 --> 01:20:25,603 This is an anatomically correct... 1521 01:20:26,909 --> 01:20:29,781 drawing from the Zapruder film. 1522 01:20:31,609 --> 01:20:35,308 And a-- it's a combination of that 1523 01:20:35,874 --> 01:20:38,529 and the photographs of the skull. 1524 01:20:40,139 --> 01:20:42,185 You have an entry wound here, 1525 01:20:43,316 --> 01:20:45,144 and an exit wound here. 1526 01:20:45,188 --> 01:20:46,842 And in fact, you could see 1527 01:20:47,364 --> 01:20:49,279 the beveling on this exit wound, 1528 01:20:49,845 --> 01:20:51,716 it's a small hole on the inside 1529 01:20:51,759 --> 01:20:53,413 and a large hole on the outside. 1530 01:20:54,023 --> 01:20:56,416 [Brendan] So the analysis of these pieces of evidence 1531 01:20:56,460 --> 01:20:58,766 by the Warren Commission and later confirmed 1532 01:20:58,810 --> 01:21:00,986 by the House Select Committee concluded that, 1533 01:21:01,421 --> 01:21:03,815 of the three shots fired by Oswald, 1534 01:21:04,250 --> 01:21:07,427 only two hit the President and Governor Connally. 1535 01:21:07,471 --> 01:21:11,170 However, at the end of the House Committee's reexamination, 1536 01:21:11,823 --> 01:21:13,999 additional acoustic evidence came to light 1537 01:21:14,043 --> 01:21:16,175 of a possible fourth gunshot, 1538 01:21:16,654 --> 01:21:19,222 which would indicate that there was a second shooter. 1539 01:21:20,049 --> 01:21:24,096 What was revealed was that one of the motorcycle police officers 1540 01:21:24,140 --> 01:21:27,186 had his microphone stuck in the transmit mode 1541 01:21:27,230 --> 01:21:30,581 and the Dallas Police Dictabelt recording of that microphone 1542 01:21:30,624 --> 01:21:33,758 seemed to contain a sound wave of an additional shot. 1543 01:21:34,237 --> 01:21:36,456 We made an effort to find, uh, 1544 01:21:36,979 --> 01:21:39,851 the top acoustics people in the country. 1545 01:21:39,895 --> 01:21:42,027 We said, "Would you look at the tape 1546 01:21:42,506 --> 01:21:43,942 and see what you can determine?" 1547 01:21:43,986 --> 01:21:45,988 And they did that, and they came back 1548 01:21:46,031 --> 01:21:47,206 and they said, "Uh, 1549 01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:50,818 we have some inconvenient news." [chuckles] 1550 01:21:52,168 --> 01:21:55,345 "There were indeed three shots in the Plaza 1551 01:21:55,693 --> 01:21:59,653 that probably came from the Depository. 1552 01:22:00,263 --> 01:22:02,743 But there's evidence on the tape 1553 01:22:03,309 --> 01:22:08,706 of a shot right before Oswald's third shot, 1554 01:22:08,749 --> 01:22:10,621 and it's from the Grassy Knoll." 1555 01:22:11,491 --> 01:22:13,885 So we asked them, "How confident are you 1556 01:22:14,712 --> 01:22:16,583 that there was a shot from the Grassy Knoll?" 1557 01:22:17,845 --> 01:22:19,935 And they said, "For that one, 50/50." 1558 01:22:20,674 --> 01:22:22,372 They said for the other three, 1559 01:22:22,415 --> 01:22:24,635 they were up in the 80s and 90s. 1560 01:22:25,679 --> 01:22:27,464 Uh, and, 1561 01:22:28,639 --> 01:22:31,468 "You mean, the fact of conspiracy in the assassination 1562 01:22:31,511 --> 01:22:32,643 is a flip of the coin?" 1563 01:22:33,774 --> 01:22:35,602 And he said, "Basically, yes." 1564 01:22:36,125 --> 01:22:40,781 And then we had two experts who looked at what, 1565 01:22:41,608 --> 01:22:43,915 uh, Bolt, Beranek and Newman did. 1566 01:22:43,959 --> 01:22:45,699 And then we tried to figure out is, 1567 01:22:45,743 --> 01:22:47,788 was there any way to extend this 1568 01:22:48,528 --> 01:22:53,011 and increase our degree of confidence 1569 01:22:53,055 --> 01:22:54,665 for the shot from the Grassy Knoll? 1570 01:22:54,708 --> 01:22:55,971 And they did it. 1571 01:22:56,406 --> 01:22:59,975 And they got up-- the confidence up to about 95% 1572 01:23:00,540 --> 01:23:02,586 that there was a shot from the Grassy Knoll. 1573 01:23:03,804 --> 01:23:05,719 [Brendan] This conclusion was controversial 1574 01:23:05,763 --> 01:23:08,940 and prompted dissents by Committee Members. 1575 01:23:10,724 --> 01:23:13,162 Their conclusions hinged on determining 1576 01:23:13,205 --> 01:23:15,816 which motorcycle had the stuck microphone. 1577 01:23:16,339 --> 01:23:19,124 Using photos and film of the motorcade, 1578 01:23:19,559 --> 01:23:23,085 they determined that it had to belong to motorcycle officer 1579 01:23:23,128 --> 01:23:25,739 H. B. McLain for their theory to work. 1580 01:23:26,392 --> 01:23:29,482 McLain testified about his actions in the motorcade 1581 01:23:29,526 --> 01:23:31,354 before the House Select Committee 1582 01:23:31,397 --> 01:23:33,008 and later recalled his experiences 1583 01:23:33,051 --> 01:23:34,618 in a 2003 interview. 1584 01:23:34,966 --> 01:23:36,663 I asked them if I could listen to the tape. 1585 01:23:37,664 --> 01:23:39,405 "Well, you don't need to listen to that." 1586 01:23:41,059 --> 01:23:43,670 So, I just said everything was possible. 1587 01:23:46,151 --> 01:23:48,371 And when I got back to town, 1588 01:23:49,241 --> 01:23:51,069 I went back to work the next day, 1589 01:23:52,636 --> 01:23:55,030 J. C. Bowles called me over to his office. 1590 01:23:55,073 --> 01:23:59,034 He said "Mac, have you heard them, have you heard those tapes 1591 01:24:00,078 --> 01:24:02,776 before you went up there?" I said, "No, Sir. 1592 01:24:03,212 --> 01:24:05,214 And they wouldn't let me listen to them up there." 1593 01:24:06,867 --> 01:24:09,435 So he sent me in-- 1594 01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:11,698 took me into one of the other rooms in there, 1595 01:24:12,221 --> 01:24:15,441 sat me down and said, "I want you to listen to these." 1596 01:24:17,269 --> 01:24:19,054 So I sat down and listened to them. 1597 01:24:19,619 --> 01:24:21,317 When I got through, I came back out 1598 01:24:21,665 --> 01:24:23,406 and said, "No, it wasn't mine. 1599 01:24:24,407 --> 01:24:25,321 Couldn't be." 1600 01:24:26,670 --> 01:24:28,106 Because you can tell the difference in the sound 1601 01:24:28,150 --> 01:24:32,067 of a three wheeler running and a solo motorcycle running. 1602 01:24:35,070 --> 01:24:36,941 And it was not mine. 1603 01:24:42,338 --> 01:24:43,817 [upbeat music] 1604 01:24:43,861 --> 01:24:45,341 [Brendan] Steve Barber, 1605 01:24:45,384 --> 01:24:47,430 a rock drummer from Shelby, Ohio, 1606 01:24:47,995 --> 01:24:50,085 believed conspiracy theories 1607 01:24:50,607 --> 01:24:53,262 and was excited to learn in 1979 1608 01:24:53,305 --> 01:24:55,220 that the recordings were going to be published 1609 01:24:55,264 --> 01:24:57,962 in an upcoming issue of Gallery Magazine. 1610 01:24:59,006 --> 01:25:00,225 I got my copy, 1611 01:25:00,965 --> 01:25:02,532 I put this record on, 1612 01:25:03,533 --> 01:25:06,057 and I'm listening intently to this thing. 1613 01:25:06,101 --> 01:25:08,364 I mean, just earphones, 1614 01:25:08,407 --> 01:25:09,756 anything I can get my hands on. 1615 01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:12,498 I want to hear every little sound. 1616 01:25:12,542 --> 01:25:14,979 No gunshots, you can't hear any gunshots. 1617 01:25:15,762 --> 01:25:17,547 So I'm like, "Wh-- where are they?" 1618 01:25:19,244 --> 01:25:20,985 And I just, you know, I figure, 1619 01:25:21,028 --> 01:25:22,682 "Well, they're in there somewhere, 1620 01:25:22,726 --> 01:25:24,641 because there's a lot of different little sounds." 1621 01:25:25,207 --> 01:25:28,123 [Brendan] What Barber discovered was known as crosstalk. 1622 01:25:28,558 --> 01:25:31,474 That occurs when one transmission from one channel 1623 01:25:31,517 --> 01:25:32,997 is picked up on another. 1624 01:25:34,694 --> 01:25:35,956 The Dallas Police Department was using two channels 1625 01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:37,175 during this event. 1626 01:25:38,698 --> 01:25:40,178 Channel One was the regular police channel, 1627 01:25:40,222 --> 01:25:42,267 which recorded the stuck open microphone. 1628 01:25:42,876 --> 01:25:46,184 Channel Two was reserved for motorcade communications. 1629 01:25:46,663 --> 01:25:48,360 He was surprised to hear, 1630 01:25:48,404 --> 01:25:51,102 barely audibly on the Channel One recording, 1631 01:25:51,146 --> 01:25:54,236 the same words he also heard on Channel Two. 1632 01:25:54,801 --> 01:25:56,368 That was the crosstalk. 1633 01:25:56,412 --> 01:25:58,457 [crackly recordings] 1634 01:25:58,501 --> 01:26:00,546 [muffled chat] 1635 01:26:02,983 --> 01:26:05,682 There's a voice that's buried 1636 01:26:06,204 --> 01:26:10,295 within all that motorcycle noise and so forth, and I thought, 1637 01:26:11,122 --> 01:26:14,691 "I want to-- I'm going to figure out what's going on here, 1638 01:26:14,734 --> 01:26:16,954 see if I can figure out what this guy is saying." 1639 01:26:18,912 --> 01:26:21,654 [Brendan] The words Barber heard were Dallas County Sheriff Decker 1640 01:26:21,698 --> 01:26:24,483 ordering his men to, "Hold everything secure 1641 01:26:24,527 --> 01:26:26,268 until the investigators get there." 1642 01:26:26,616 --> 01:26:30,315 This transmission on both recordings provide a timeline 1643 01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:33,275 for when the Channel One recording was made. 1644 01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:39,629 So then, when I discovered this Sheriff Decker transmission, 1645 01:26:40,847 --> 01:26:44,329 it proved that section of the tape is actually 90 seconds 1646 01:26:44,373 --> 01:26:46,418 after the, the shooting. 1647 01:26:47,376 --> 01:26:49,726 There are no gunshots on that recording. 1648 01:26:49,769 --> 01:26:53,643 We are right back to square one. The Warren Commission stands, 1649 01:26:54,252 --> 01:26:57,081 "Three gunshots from Lee Harvey Oswald, 1650 01:26:57,777 --> 01:26:58,952 nobody else." 1651 01:27:00,737 --> 01:27:03,696 [Brendan] In 1980, The National Academy of Sciences 1652 01:27:03,740 --> 01:27:05,611 reexamined the acoustic evidence. 1653 01:27:06,090 --> 01:27:08,092 Barber sent them his conclusions. 1654 01:27:08,571 --> 01:27:10,486 On May 14th, 1982, 1655 01:27:10,529 --> 01:27:12,488 the National Academy of Sciences 1656 01:27:12,531 --> 01:27:15,186 released their report agreeing with Barber's assessment. 1657 01:27:16,666 --> 01:27:18,450 In October 2013, 1658 01:27:18,798 --> 01:27:22,411 a new study commissioned by Professor Larry Sabato 1659 01:27:22,454 --> 01:27:24,282 of the University of Virginia 1660 01:27:24,326 --> 01:27:27,503 and conducted by a private firm, Sonalysts, 1661 01:27:27,546 --> 01:27:30,462 concluded that the motorcycle with an open microphone 1662 01:27:30,506 --> 01:27:32,899 was traveling at a high rate speed, 1663 01:27:32,943 --> 01:27:36,686 indicating that it was not in the presidential motorcade. 1664 01:27:37,861 --> 01:27:40,646 Sadly, once Barber concluded 1665 01:27:40,690 --> 01:27:42,561 that the Warren Commission was correct, 1666 01:27:43,170 --> 01:27:46,826 his friends in the conspiracy community began attacking him 1667 01:27:47,305 --> 01:27:49,873 and those attacks continue to this day. 1668 01:27:51,004 --> 01:27:53,659 This was the only scientific proof 1669 01:27:53,703 --> 01:27:55,574 of a conspiracy that existed. 1670 01:27:56,575 --> 01:27:57,576 And... 1671 01:27:59,099 --> 01:28:02,494 you know, I came along and I guess I killed that. 1672 01:28:03,539 --> 01:28:05,584 Searching for the truth, and I f-- 1673 01:28:06,498 --> 01:28:09,327 found something I didn't expect, and it... 1674 01:28:11,764 --> 01:28:13,418 Here we are, so-- 1675 01:28:14,071 --> 01:28:16,726 -50-what, 53 years later? -[Brendan] Right. Right. 1676 01:28:17,335 --> 01:28:18,380 -Right. -Man... 1677 01:28:18,858 --> 01:28:20,904 [suspenseful music] 1678 01:28:22,384 --> 01:28:25,561 [Brendan] Could there still have been more people connected to the murder? 1679 01:28:25,604 --> 01:28:27,084 How did Jack Ruby fit in? 1680 01:28:27,519 --> 01:28:29,216 Although both the Warren Commission 1681 01:28:29,260 --> 01:28:31,436 and the House Select Committee ruled out Cuba, 1682 01:28:31,480 --> 01:28:34,091 the Soviet Union, the FBI and the CIA, 1683 01:28:34,657 --> 01:28:39,226 Robert Blakey believes a conspiracy involving a noted underworld figure was possible. 1684 01:28:39,575 --> 01:28:45,711 Do you think that Oswald was involved in a mafia/organized crime conspiracy? 1685 01:28:45,755 --> 01:28:48,366 No. Not knowingly organized crime. 1686 01:28:50,325 --> 01:28:54,154 My posit, and you have to bring two things together, 1687 01:28:54,807 --> 01:28:57,506 you've got to bring Oswald together and Ruby together. 1688 01:28:57,549 --> 01:29:01,118 Well, the general rule is that you can only conspire 1689 01:29:01,161 --> 01:29:04,339 with other people that you know or associated with. 1690 01:29:04,991 --> 01:29:07,037 So if you want to find out if there's a conspiracy, 1691 01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:10,562 what you do is a link analysis of the individual. 1692 01:29:11,258 --> 01:29:13,783 All the leads that run out from Oswald 1693 01:29:13,826 --> 01:29:17,090 run to Communist groups of some kind. 1694 01:29:17,787 --> 01:29:20,180 All the things that run out from Ruby 1695 01:29:20,833 --> 01:29:23,270 are crime connected. 1696 01:29:23,662 --> 01:29:27,492 So why did Oswald kill the President? 1697 01:29:29,929 --> 01:29:31,714 If it was part of a conspiracy, 1698 01:29:32,454 --> 01:29:33,498 it was Communist, 1699 01:29:35,152 --> 01:29:38,024 and we've already decided the Communists had no stake in that. 1700 01:29:38,590 --> 01:29:42,028 If you take Ruby and say, "Who are Ruby's connections? 1701 01:29:43,029 --> 01:29:46,511 Uh, who are they connected to?" 1702 01:29:47,599 --> 01:29:49,732 [Brendan] Blakey believes that the connections between Ruby 1703 01:29:49,775 --> 01:29:53,431 and Oswald flow through New Orleans' crime boss, Carlos Marcello, 1704 01:29:53,779 --> 01:29:56,391 who had a well-publicized grudge against the Kennedys. 1705 01:29:57,043 --> 01:29:59,350 The Kennedys were trying to deport Marcello. 1706 01:30:00,046 --> 01:30:02,440 Ruby was certainly exposed to crime figures 1707 01:30:02,484 --> 01:30:03,789 in his business dealings. 1708 01:30:04,660 --> 01:30:06,879 For Oswald, it was less clear. 1709 01:30:07,445 --> 01:30:09,142 When Oswald was 16, 1710 01:30:09,186 --> 01:30:10,927 he served in the Civil Air Patrol 1711 01:30:10,970 --> 01:30:12,494 under Captain David Ferrie, 1712 01:30:12,929 --> 01:30:15,322 who would, by 1963, 1713 01:30:15,366 --> 01:30:18,282 be an investigator for Carlos Marcello's legal team. 1714 01:30:18,804 --> 01:30:22,068 Another connection to Marcello was Oswald's uncle Dutz Murret, 1715 01:30:22,112 --> 01:30:23,461 a New Orleans bookmaker. 1716 01:30:25,115 --> 01:30:29,424 For me, the critical problem between anybody in New Orleans 1717 01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:34,080 and Oswald in Dallas is that, 1718 01:30:34,733 --> 01:30:37,257 uh, when Oswald left New Orleans, 1719 01:30:37,736 --> 01:30:41,087 uh, he went to Mexico City. 1720 01:30:41,697 --> 01:30:45,178 He didn't even have the knowledge himself 1721 01:30:45,222 --> 01:30:46,658 that he was going to go to Dallas. 1722 01:30:47,093 --> 01:30:48,704 He was hoping to get to Cuba, 1723 01:30:49,661 --> 01:30:52,359 uh, and, uh, he told, 1724 01:30:52,403 --> 01:30:55,928 uh, his wife and he told Ruth Paine 1725 01:30:55,972 --> 01:31:00,237 that he would go to either Houston or Philadelphia looking for a job. 1726 01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:03,153 How does somebody have communication with Oswald 1727 01:31:04,284 --> 01:31:05,808 between October 4th, 1728 01:31:06,199 --> 01:31:07,940 when he returned from Mexico City, 1729 01:31:07,984 --> 01:31:10,552 and November 22nd, when he shot the President? 1730 01:31:10,595 --> 01:31:13,119 Even his wife didn't know where he was living. 1731 01:31:16,253 --> 01:31:18,473 The FBI didn't know where he was living. 1732 01:31:18,516 --> 01:31:20,344 -We don't know. -But-- We don't! 1733 01:31:20,387 --> 01:31:21,824 -We don't know about the connections... -But-- 1734 01:31:21,867 --> 01:31:23,608 ...but what we're trying to say is, 1735 01:31:23,652 --> 01:31:25,784 if Oswald did it 1736 01:31:26,568 --> 01:31:27,960 and it was conspiratorial, 1737 01:31:28,004 --> 01:31:30,702 what's the nature of his conspiracy? 1738 01:31:30,746 --> 01:31:33,400 -Well, tell me. -So what you have is, 1739 01:31:33,923 --> 01:31:38,057 the technical phrase for it is False Flag Recruitment, 1740 01:31:39,015 --> 01:31:41,757 meaning the anti-Castro Cubans 1741 01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:44,977 pretend to be pro-Castro Cubans, 1742 01:31:45,587 --> 01:31:47,458 and they go to Oswald and say, 1743 01:31:47,763 --> 01:31:50,287 "We want you to kill the President 1744 01:31:50,330 --> 01:31:53,072 on behalf of Castro." 1745 01:31:53,638 --> 01:31:55,684 Would Oswald take that assignment? 1746 01:31:55,727 --> 01:31:59,209 I think of this as a jigsaw puzzle. 1747 01:32:00,427 --> 01:32:02,038 And we're putting pieces in. 1748 01:32:03,256 --> 01:32:04,823 And we know that there were-- 1749 01:32:05,694 --> 01:32:08,044 "Oswald killed the president," that's a big section 1750 01:32:08,087 --> 01:32:09,524 -of the jigsaw puzzle. -Right. 1751 01:32:10,394 --> 01:32:14,354 Carlos Marcello said he was going to kill the President 1752 01:32:14,398 --> 01:32:17,053 and he was going to use, he said, "a nut," 1753 01:32:17,096 --> 01:32:20,186 uh, use a patsy to do it, for it. 1754 01:32:20,622 --> 01:32:24,103 So that everybody would think the patsy was involved. 1755 01:32:24,147 --> 01:32:26,323 And now Oswald fits that definition. 1756 01:32:26,889 --> 01:32:28,717 And that's one of the reasons they had to kill him 1757 01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:29,848 -right afterwards. -Okay. 1758 01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:31,284 And that's... 1759 01:32:33,373 --> 01:32:36,768 How would they have killed him? Well, Jack Ruby killed him. 1760 01:32:36,812 --> 01:32:37,987 Now the question is, 1761 01:32:38,030 --> 01:32:40,946 can Jack Ruby be connected to... 1762 01:32:42,469 --> 01:32:45,429 Mar-- Marcello and the whole mob connection? 1763 01:32:45,821 --> 01:32:49,433 And the answer is "Yes," like, overwhelmingly. 1764 01:32:50,652 --> 01:32:53,524 Did Jack Ruby act at that time? 1765 01:32:53,568 --> 01:32:54,960 Well, he never admitted it. 1766 01:32:55,613 --> 01:32:58,268 He said that he did it, but, a-- as you put it, 1767 01:32:58,660 --> 01:33:00,575 is to prove that Jews had guts. 1768 01:33:01,401 --> 01:33:04,622 Your story is not inconsistent 1769 01:33:05,014 --> 01:33:07,016 with him having done it for the mob. 1770 01:33:07,756 --> 01:33:08,974 They both could be true. 1771 01:33:10,933 --> 01:33:13,805 [Brendan] While I have the deepest respect for Professor Blakey, 1772 01:33:14,501 --> 01:33:17,766 I strongly disagree with his theory. 1773 01:33:18,505 --> 01:33:22,031 My reason? The history behind Jack Ruby. 1774 01:33:23,728 --> 01:33:28,385 When asked if Ruby was a part of the, part of organized crime, 1775 01:33:28,994 --> 01:33:30,779 the detective who was a specialist 1776 01:33:30,822 --> 01:33:32,389 in organized crime in Dallas 1777 01:33:32,781 --> 01:33:35,740 during that earlier time period, 1778 01:33:36,393 --> 01:33:40,919 his remark was that, "If Ruby was a part of organized crime, 1779 01:33:40,963 --> 01:33:44,836 organized crime needs a new Human Resources Director." 1780 01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,622 Here Oswald had been in custody for, 1781 01:33:48,013 --> 01:33:51,756 uh, a day and a half, since Friday afternoon 1782 01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:53,149 until Sunday morning. 1783 01:33:53,192 --> 01:33:54,933 So Oswald was not breaking. 1784 01:33:55,847 --> 01:33:59,155 Uh, and Oswald was not that talkative a person. 1785 01:34:00,330 --> 01:34:02,375 Almost the last person that I would want 1786 01:34:02,724 --> 01:34:05,248 to make sure that the conspiracy stays a secret 1787 01:34:05,988 --> 01:34:08,817 is Jack Ruby, because he was a talker. 1788 01:34:09,426 --> 01:34:12,124 The mafia is not crazy, and they would not have wanted 1789 01:34:12,168 --> 01:34:15,171 this talkative fellow, uncontrolled fellow, 1790 01:34:15,214 --> 01:34:17,913 unstable fellow, uh, in prison 1791 01:34:18,435 --> 01:34:20,306 rather than Lee Harvey Oswald. 1792 01:34:20,916 --> 01:34:23,745 [Burt] Ruby had some pretty knowledgeable lawyers 1793 01:34:23,788 --> 01:34:25,224 representing him at his trial. 1794 01:34:26,138 --> 01:34:31,274 Uh, if Ruby had some kind of information 1795 01:34:32,362 --> 01:34:34,669 that the mafia was involved in this, 1796 01:34:35,626 --> 01:34:37,584 uh, don't you think his lawyers-- 1797 01:34:37,628 --> 01:34:40,370 he would've told his lawyers, and his lawyers would've tried 1798 01:34:40,413 --> 01:34:42,677 to have made a deal of some sort for him? 1799 01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:45,288 He got the death penalty at one point. 1800 01:34:46,071 --> 01:34:49,814 Uh, it was a real deal that he could've made. 1801 01:34:51,773 --> 01:34:53,078 [Brendan] So who was Jack Ruby? 1802 01:34:54,776 --> 01:34:56,429 Why did he murder Oswald and how did he happen to be 1803 01:34:56,473 --> 01:34:57,822 in the position to do it? 1804 01:34:59,955 --> 01:35:01,565 The Warren Commission staff began their investigation of him, 1805 01:35:01,608 --> 01:35:03,915 beginning with the date in late September 1806 01:35:03,959 --> 01:35:06,788 when it was first announced the President was coming to Texas. 1807 01:35:07,527 --> 01:35:09,399 Where was Ruby? What had he done? 1808 01:35:09,442 --> 01:35:13,229 Who had he talked to up until the time he shot, uh, Oswald? 1809 01:35:13,272 --> 01:35:16,711 So we were trying to develop a chronology of his activities. 1810 01:35:17,407 --> 01:35:21,367 I felt that Ruby might well have been assisted in some way 1811 01:35:21,890 --> 01:35:25,023 to do this kind of thing, or somebody had tolerated him. 1812 01:35:26,155 --> 01:35:30,289 Jack Ruby had been born in Chicago 1813 01:35:31,421 --> 01:35:34,163 of Jewish immigrant parents. 1814 01:35:34,206 --> 01:35:37,993 When he came to Dallas after the Second World War, 1815 01:35:38,820 --> 01:35:42,824 at the very same time, he and his two brothers 1816 01:35:42,867 --> 01:35:45,957 changed their name from Rubenstein to Ruby. 1817 01:35:48,003 --> 01:35:51,223 Uh, it wasn't an uncommon thing to do 1818 01:35:51,267 --> 01:35:53,573 if you were going to live in Dallas, 1819 01:35:53,878 --> 01:35:58,883 which, uh, was a community, 1820 01:35:58,927 --> 01:36:02,321 uh, that had a high level of antisemitism. 1821 01:36:02,844 --> 01:36:06,195 His entrepreneu-- primary entrepreneurial activity 1822 01:36:06,238 --> 01:36:08,110 was to run striptease clubs. 1823 01:36:08,632 --> 01:36:12,810 He knew people who were involved 1824 01:36:12,854 --> 01:36:15,857 in organized crime from his childhood, 1825 01:36:15,900 --> 01:36:19,991 and he knew them from the striptease clubs he ran, 1826 01:36:20,035 --> 01:36:22,472 because the people that he dealt with, 1827 01:36:22,515 --> 01:36:23,516 the Union people, 1828 01:36:23,908 --> 01:36:26,563 uh, also had those connections. 1829 01:36:30,349 --> 01:36:32,961 So I started to read the transcript of the Ruby trial, 1830 01:36:33,004 --> 01:36:36,703 he had been tried and then, as I recall, convicted by March or so. 1831 01:36:37,052 --> 01:36:40,185 Uh, and-- so I was reading through the transcript, 1832 01:36:40,620 --> 01:36:44,494 uh, and it was really a very interesting, uh, journey for me, 1833 01:36:44,886 --> 01:36:49,455 uh, because, uh, the issue of Ruby's Jewishness, 1834 01:36:49,934 --> 01:36:53,459 uh, had been raised a number of different ways, 1835 01:36:53,503 --> 01:36:55,679 uh, partly by Ruby himself, 1836 01:36:56,114 --> 01:36:59,596 who had been incensed by an ad that appeared in the Dallas Morning News 1837 01:36:59,639 --> 01:37:02,425 on the morning of November 22nd, 1963, 1838 01:37:02,904 --> 01:37:04,514 uh, with a black border 1839 01:37:04,557 --> 01:37:06,864 saying "Welcome to Dallas, Mr. President." 1840 01:37:06,908 --> 01:37:09,258 And, uh, signed Bernard Weissman. 1841 01:37:09,301 --> 01:37:12,174 And Ruby assumed that Bernard Weissman was Jewish, 1842 01:37:12,217 --> 01:37:13,871 although he had never heard of him. 1843 01:37:13,915 --> 01:37:16,439 He felt that it was all prob-- 1844 01:37:16,482 --> 01:37:20,051 unlikely probable that whoever had placed that ad in the newspaper 1845 01:37:20,095 --> 01:37:24,012 was somehow linked to the assassination. 1846 01:37:24,055 --> 01:37:26,884 And that a Jewish name had been put on this ad 1847 01:37:27,537 --> 01:37:30,670 by people who were somehow involved in the assassination, 1848 01:37:30,714 --> 01:37:32,542 so that the Jews would be blamed 1849 01:37:32,585 --> 01:37:34,457 for the assassination of President Kennedy 1850 01:37:34,500 --> 01:37:37,329 and would feed right into the anti-Semitism 1851 01:37:37,373 --> 01:37:40,942 that he felt so strongly existed in Dallas. 1852 01:37:41,725 --> 01:37:45,381 So, you know, Ruby, at that point became 1853 01:37:45,424 --> 01:37:47,470 the first conspiracy investigator. 1854 01:37:48,993 --> 01:37:51,909 So, with his high class investigative techniques, 1855 01:37:51,953 --> 01:37:54,129 he set out to find Weissman. 1856 01:37:54,172 --> 01:37:56,348 He looked in the telephone directory. 1857 01:37:56,871 --> 01:37:59,743 He couldn't find Weissman's name in the telephone directory. 1858 01:38:00,352 --> 01:38:02,833 He looked in a street directory. 1859 01:38:02,877 --> 01:38:05,618 He couldn't find Weissman's name in the street directory. 1860 01:38:06,141 --> 01:38:07,882 That night, Friday night, 1861 01:38:08,447 --> 01:38:11,102 he went to re-- religious services at his temple 1862 01:38:11,668 --> 01:38:14,497 and he asked his rabbi if he'd ever heard of Bernard Weissman 1863 01:38:14,889 --> 01:38:17,717 and Rabbi Silverman had never heard of Bernard Weissman. 1864 01:38:19,197 --> 01:38:23,071 I was not happy with the politics in the US, 1865 01:38:23,462 --> 01:38:26,813 though not that interested to where I would do something about it. 1866 01:38:27,336 --> 01:38:31,818 [Brendan] As a young soldier stationed in postwar Germany in 1961, 1867 01:38:32,167 --> 01:38:34,038 Weismann got to know Larry Schmidt, 1868 01:38:34,734 --> 01:38:36,867 who was active in conservative politics. 1869 01:38:37,694 --> 01:38:40,958 Together with a few others, they formed an organization 1870 01:38:41,002 --> 01:38:44,005 called CUSA, Conservative USA. 1871 01:38:44,831 --> 01:38:47,182 By November 1963, 1872 01:38:47,225 --> 01:38:49,793 Schmidt had become a right wing activist 1873 01:38:49,836 --> 01:38:52,883 in the Dallas area when Weissman joined him there. 1874 01:38:53,623 --> 01:38:55,930 Learning of the President's impending visit, 1875 01:38:56,278 --> 01:38:58,367 they decided to place the newspaper ad 1876 01:38:58,410 --> 01:38:59,934 in theDallas Morning News. 1877 01:39:00,412 --> 01:39:03,328 Tell us about the concoction of the ad 1878 01:39:04,199 --> 01:39:06,157 and what that ad was going to be. 1879 01:39:06,201 --> 01:39:10,379 Okay. Larry presented a preliminary heading, 1880 01:39:12,076 --> 01:39:14,992 and we looked at it and talked about it, uh, 1881 01:39:15,036 --> 01:39:18,865 and then discussed what-- "Well, let's change this and let's put this in. 1882 01:39:18,909 --> 01:39:21,477 Let's put that in." And then, ten items. 1883 01:39:22,521 --> 01:39:25,960 -We wanted ten questions... -To President Kennedy. 1884 01:39:26,003 --> 01:39:27,526 ...to President Kennedy. 1885 01:39:27,570 --> 01:39:29,789 So we concoct the ad and I'm, I'm taking it 1886 01:39:29,833 --> 01:39:34,272 -to the fellow at the Dallas Morning News... -Yeah. 1887 01:39:35,056 --> 01:39:37,145 ...uh, the layout guy. 1888 01:39:37,710 --> 01:39:40,235 And we're going to have it laid out. 1889 01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:44,021 And, uh, I'm eliminating this and eliminating that, 1890 01:39:44,065 --> 01:39:46,284 all the little mistakes they've made, and I said, 1891 01:39:46,328 --> 01:39:48,765 "Uh, just to put the ad in, that's not going to do it. 1892 01:39:48,808 --> 01:39:50,810 Uh, put a, put a black border around it. 1893 01:39:51,289 --> 01:39:53,552 Just, yeah, put a black border." 1894 01:39:53,596 --> 01:39:56,729 And so, I come back in the, in the day, 1895 01:39:56,773 --> 01:39:59,950 the next day and he's got the layout, and I said, 1896 01:40:00,690 --> 01:40:02,126 "Uh, make it a little wider." 1897 01:40:03,519 --> 01:40:05,782 So I said, "No, a little wider than that." 1898 01:40:06,348 --> 01:40:08,263 -That's th-- that's the black border. -And the wider-- that's, 1899 01:40:08,306 --> 01:40:10,091 -That's the black border. -Okay. 1900 01:40:10,134 --> 01:40:12,136 I said, "Because that will attract the attention." 1901 01:40:12,180 --> 01:40:14,225 Then, as far as the name goes... 1902 01:40:14,269 --> 01:40:16,097 -Right. -...we invented a name. 1903 01:40:16,445 --> 01:40:18,012 "American Fact-Finding Committee." 1904 01:40:18,577 --> 01:40:20,884 "Oh, that's good enough. It's good enough for the ad, 1905 01:40:21,232 --> 01:40:22,625 and we'll rent a box." 1906 01:40:22,668 --> 01:40:25,976 But, but look, the Committee has to have 1907 01:40:26,020 --> 01:40:28,674 -some name on-- somebody's name on it, doesn't it? -Well, 1908 01:40:28,718 --> 01:40:31,764 I or we came up with the idea, "Well, look, 1909 01:40:33,331 --> 01:40:38,249 most of the Jews in Dallas are liberal." 1910 01:40:38,902 --> 01:40:40,860 -Yeah. -"Pretty strongly liberal." 1911 01:40:42,079 --> 01:40:45,430 And I said, "If I put my-- if we put my name in that, 1912 01:40:47,215 --> 01:40:50,174 -yeah, that-- that'll be helpful." -It would show-- 1913 01:40:50,218 --> 01:40:52,133 -it would show that not every-- -it would show that not every, 1914 01:40:52,176 --> 01:40:54,787 not every Jewish guy is, uh, liberal, 1915 01:40:55,136 --> 01:40:58,226 that there are conservative Jews. 1916 01:40:58,269 --> 01:40:59,575 -Right. -You know? 1917 01:40:59,618 --> 01:41:01,272 And fearlessly conservative Jews 1918 01:41:01,316 --> 01:41:02,926 -at that particular point. -Right. 1919 01:41:04,493 --> 01:41:07,539 And so, that's-- that's how the name came about. 1920 01:41:08,105 --> 01:41:12,022 What did you hope to accomplish by placing that ad? 1921 01:41:12,631 --> 01:41:15,156 Putting us up front, notoriety. 1922 01:41:15,199 --> 01:41:18,376 But most of it was adjusting our point of view out 1923 01:41:18,985 --> 01:41:23,033 and to create a stir. We thought the questions were provocative enough 1924 01:41:24,426 --> 01:41:26,645 that it would promote a lot of conversation, 1925 01:41:27,298 --> 01:41:29,213 positive, negative, didn't matter, 1926 01:41:29,735 --> 01:41:31,607 as long as we had the publicity. 1927 01:41:31,955 --> 01:41:34,610 Had any of you ever heard 1928 01:41:35,045 --> 01:41:37,352 of Lee Harvey Oswald 1929 01:41:37,395 --> 01:41:38,831 -up to that point? -No. Never. 1930 01:41:39,354 --> 01:41:41,182 And had any of you ever heard 1931 01:41:41,225 --> 01:41:43,358 -of Jack Ruby up to that point? -Never. 1932 01:41:45,838 --> 01:41:47,666 Ruby really was obsessed over the whole weekend 1933 01:41:47,710 --> 01:41:49,277 with the assassination, period. 1934 01:41:49,625 --> 01:41:52,280 Uh, I still remember the description of his apartment 1935 01:41:52,628 --> 01:41:55,196 when the police came in there, I mean, the whole place 1936 01:41:55,239 --> 01:41:58,286 was full of newspaper articles about the assassination. 1937 01:41:59,635 --> 01:42:01,202 And that was all he talked about 1938 01:42:01,550 --> 01:42:03,247 to many people over that weekend. 1939 01:42:04,466 --> 01:42:06,946 After he went to services on Friday night, 1940 01:42:07,425 --> 01:42:08,992 he decided he would try to, 1941 01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:12,082 uh, get into the police station, 1942 01:42:12,126 --> 01:42:14,040 where incidentally, uh, 1943 01:42:14,084 --> 01:42:16,304 Oswald was being held and questioned, 1944 01:42:16,347 --> 01:42:19,698 and it was mobbed with newspaper 1945 01:42:19,742 --> 01:42:23,441 and news media people, television, radio, everybody. 1946 01:42:24,138 --> 01:42:26,357 And I remember sitting in the, uh, 1947 01:42:26,401 --> 01:42:30,274 in the room in the VFW Building where the Commission was housed, 1948 01:42:30,666 --> 01:42:32,929 where they showed videos and there was this video 1949 01:42:32,972 --> 01:42:35,540 of Oswald being presented, 1950 01:42:35,584 --> 01:42:38,282 and the camera panned around the room, 1951 01:42:38,326 --> 01:42:41,155 and wait a minute, can it be? It was Jack Ruby. 1952 01:42:41,546 --> 01:42:43,287 How the h-- how did he get in there? 1953 01:42:43,331 --> 01:42:44,767 What was he doing there? 1954 01:42:44,810 --> 01:42:46,595 Ruby was there, we have a picture of Ruby 1955 01:42:46,638 --> 01:42:49,728 standing on a table with a piece of-- 1956 01:42:49,772 --> 01:42:53,732 a pad of paper in his hand and a pencil in the other hand. 1957 01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:56,257 And he told the police that he was there 1958 01:42:56,300 --> 01:42:59,129 as an interviewer for the Israeli Press. 1959 01:43:00,043 --> 01:43:01,697 Incidentally, Ruby later told us 1960 01:43:01,740 --> 01:43:04,352 he actually had a gun in his pocket at that time. 1961 01:43:05,135 --> 01:43:09,705 If he really wanted to kill Oswald and that was a premeditated plan, 1962 01:43:10,140 --> 01:43:11,968 why didn't he do it then and there? 1963 01:43:12,403 --> 01:43:16,451 When he got home, he found that he had a telephone call 1964 01:43:16,886 --> 01:43:19,105 from one of his strippers who lived in Fort Worth, 1965 01:43:19,149 --> 01:43:22,152 whose name was Little-- no, her stage name was Little Lynn. 1966 01:43:22,544 --> 01:43:25,895 And because he closed his nightclubs that night, 1967 01:43:25,938 --> 01:43:27,462 Little Lynn didn't get paid, 1968 01:43:27,810 --> 01:43:29,942 so she wanted Ruby to give her some money. 1969 01:43:30,943 --> 01:43:32,467 So, Ruby told 1970 01:43:33,032 --> 01:43:34,643 uh, she made-- this gal had made-- 1971 01:43:34,686 --> 01:43:36,906 again, we didn't have cell phones in those days. 1972 01:43:36,949 --> 01:43:39,909 She, she had made a phone call from a parking garage. 1973 01:43:40,257 --> 01:43:42,477 And Ruby told the parking garage attendant 1974 01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:46,916 to give her ten dollars and Ruby would pa-- pay for this. 1975 01:43:46,959 --> 01:43:49,440 But the next morning, Little Lynn called him again 1976 01:43:50,180 --> 01:43:51,921 at about 9:30 in the morning. 1977 01:43:51,964 --> 01:43:53,139 Incidentally, at this point, 1978 01:43:54,924 --> 01:43:58,275 the media had announced that Oswald was going to be transferred 1979 01:43:58,319 --> 01:43:59,668 at ten o'clock in the morning. 1980 01:44:00,625 --> 01:44:03,715 Ruby's not-- is scarcely up at 9:30. 1981 01:44:05,456 --> 01:44:07,937 He gets a phone-- another phone call from Little Lynn. 1982 01:44:08,546 --> 01:44:10,679 Little Lynn needs $25 1983 01:44:11,549 --> 01:44:14,160 to take care of food and pay her landlord. 1984 01:44:15,074 --> 01:44:17,425 So, Ruby says he'll go downtown. 1985 01:44:17,468 --> 01:44:21,429 He leaves his apartment after ten o'clock, 1986 01:44:21,472 --> 01:44:25,607 after the time when Oswald was supposed to have been moved, 1987 01:44:26,085 --> 01:44:29,524 and takes with him his favorite dog, Sheba. 1988 01:44:30,394 --> 01:44:34,006 [Murray] So Ruby goes down to Downtown Dallas. 1989 01:44:34,355 --> 01:44:36,661 As it turns out, the Western Union office, 1990 01:44:37,053 --> 01:44:40,274 uh, was a few hundred feet from the jail. 1991 01:44:41,187 --> 01:44:44,321 And, uh, he's there, and I think it was like 11:16 1992 01:44:44,365 --> 01:44:47,019 or 11:17 in the morning, and we know that 1993 01:44:47,368 --> 01:44:50,545 because there were three copies of the money order. 1994 01:44:51,023 --> 01:44:53,765 Four minutes later, he's in the basement shooting Oswald. 1995 01:44:54,375 --> 01:44:57,856 And, you know, if he-- if he had a plan to shoot Oswald, 1996 01:44:58,292 --> 01:45:01,643 I mean, that was the most fortuitous way to do it, 1997 01:45:01,686 --> 01:45:04,428 uh, to be called by, by a stripper, 1998 01:45:04,472 --> 01:45:08,867 and, of course, we questioned, uh, the stripper at length about what happened. 1999 01:45:08,911 --> 01:45:11,609 We knew that the, uh, w-- we went to Western Union, 2000 01:45:11,653 --> 01:45:15,700 they certified that the money order was, uh, was genuine. 2001 01:45:15,744 --> 01:45:19,704 And then it happened, you know, that, uh, one of the policemen 2002 01:45:19,748 --> 01:45:22,403 who was standing watch by one of the driveways, 2003 01:45:22,446 --> 01:45:25,841 when the decoy car that was supposed to take Oswald came out, 2004 01:45:25,884 --> 01:45:28,191 that policeman went to the car, 2005 01:45:28,234 --> 01:45:31,890 giving R-- uh, Ruby the opportunity to go down the driveway. 2006 01:45:32,326 --> 01:45:34,458 So, I mean, just so many things that happened, 2007 01:45:34,502 --> 01:45:36,895 uh, that to me made it absolutely clear, 2008 01:45:36,939 --> 01:45:38,810 and to Burt it's absolutely clear, 2009 01:45:38,854 --> 01:45:41,552 uh, that this couldn't have been premeditated. 2010 01:45:41,596 --> 01:45:44,512 He couldn't have really planned to go and kill Oswald, 2011 01:45:44,555 --> 01:45:45,817 certainly not at that time. 2012 01:45:46,340 --> 01:45:47,515 -[shotgun fires] -[men yells] 2013 01:45:47,558 --> 01:45:49,255 [crowd shouts] 2014 01:45:49,299 --> 01:45:51,127 [Burt] When Ruby was wrestled to the ground 2015 01:45:51,170 --> 01:45:54,913 and taken upstairs in the police department 2016 01:45:54,957 --> 01:45:58,221 to be questioned by Homicide Captain Fritz, 2017 01:45:58,656 --> 01:46:01,572 when Fritz asked him, "Jack, why did you do it?" 2018 01:46:02,181 --> 01:46:06,272 Ruby's answer was, "I had to show the world a Jew had guts." 2019 01:46:07,143 --> 01:46:09,232 My feeling really was that he did it as, 2020 01:46:09,275 --> 01:46:12,148 in an emo-- that Ruby killed Oswald as an emotional outburst. 2021 01:46:12,714 --> 01:46:15,369 He was so emotionally upset by the assassination, 2022 01:46:16,544 --> 01:46:17,980 and he didn't think. 2023 01:46:18,023 --> 01:46:20,330 He saw Oswald in front of him, 2024 01:46:20,678 --> 01:46:22,419 uh, he had a gun in his pocket, 2025 01:46:22,463 --> 01:46:25,596 which he typically carried with him. So he shot him. 2026 01:46:26,162 --> 01:46:28,947 [Brendan] Since the Warren Commission report was released, 2027 01:46:28,991 --> 01:46:31,210 no one has been able to show concrete evidence 2028 01:46:31,254 --> 01:46:34,779 of any contacts between Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald 2029 01:46:34,823 --> 01:46:36,128 before the assassination. 2030 01:46:36,781 --> 01:46:38,827 [suspenseful music] 2031 01:46:39,610 --> 01:46:42,483 We decided early on that it would be useful to explore, 2032 01:46:42,831 --> 01:46:44,963 uh, Oswald's sources of income. 2033 01:46:45,529 --> 01:46:47,662 The, the very simple minded theory is that, 2034 01:46:47,705 --> 01:46:51,448 if he was an informant for the FBI or other agency, 2035 01:46:51,492 --> 01:46:54,408 or was a member of a well-to-do conspiracy, 2036 01:46:54,451 --> 01:46:56,148 he would be receiving some income, 2037 01:46:56,714 --> 01:46:59,935 uh, to help make him live more comfortably 2038 01:46:59,978 --> 01:47:02,720 while he planned with his fellow conspirators 2039 01:47:02,764 --> 01:47:04,287 to assassinate the President. 2040 01:47:04,330 --> 01:47:06,507 We asked IRS to lend us, 2041 01:47:07,551 --> 01:47:12,251 uh, an IRS agent to conduct an investigation along these lines, 2042 01:47:12,687 --> 01:47:16,081 both his sources of incomes and his expenditures 2043 01:47:16,430 --> 01:47:19,694 during the period from which he returned 2044 01:47:19,737 --> 01:47:22,566 to the United States in June 1962 2045 01:47:22,610 --> 01:47:25,439 until November 22nd, 1963. 2046 01:47:26,657 --> 01:47:31,923 At the time of his arrest, he had approximately $183.87. 2047 01:47:32,358 --> 01:47:34,273 I may be mistaken on the cents. 2048 01:47:35,013 --> 01:47:38,060 It seemed, you know, thoroughly rebut any suggestion 2049 01:47:38,103 --> 01:47:40,889 that he was receiving money from any source 2050 01:47:40,932 --> 01:47:42,804 other than what we were able to document, 2051 01:47:43,239 --> 01:47:48,462 um, and certainly he lived an austere life, uh, to be sure. 2052 01:47:49,288 --> 01:47:51,465 Assume that one of these groups decided 2053 01:47:51,508 --> 01:47:53,379 that they were going to kill the President, 2054 01:47:54,337 --> 01:47:58,689 an assumption I find prodigiously unlikely. 2055 01:47:59,429 --> 01:48:03,564 Oswald obviously would've been one of the last people in the face of this Earth 2056 01:48:03,607 --> 01:48:06,175 whom they would have gone to to do their bidding for them. 2057 01:48:06,784 --> 01:48:09,265 Uh, not, not an expert shot. 2058 01:48:09,308 --> 01:48:11,267 He was a good shot, but not an expert shot. 2059 01:48:11,310 --> 01:48:13,487 He had a $12 mailed order rifle. 2060 01:48:14,662 --> 01:48:19,405 Uh, notoriously unreliable, unstable. 2061 01:48:19,710 --> 01:48:21,364 I mean, here's a guy 2062 01:48:21,407 --> 01:48:25,586 that defects to Russia pre Gorbachev. 2063 01:48:26,021 --> 01:48:29,285 Even today, who in the heck defects to Russia? 2064 01:48:29,981 --> 01:48:33,245 He gets over there, wants to become a Soviet citizen very desperately. 2065 01:48:33,289 --> 01:48:34,725 They turned him down. What does he do? 2066 01:48:35,073 --> 01:48:36,858 He slashes his wrist, 2067 01:48:36,901 --> 01:48:39,425 tries to commit suicide, ends up in a hospital. 2068 01:48:40,165 --> 01:48:43,865 Just the type of guy that the CIA or mob 2069 01:48:43,908 --> 01:48:45,562 would want to rely upon 2070 01:48:46,258 --> 01:48:50,045 to commit the biggest murder in American history. 2071 01:48:50,611 --> 01:48:56,573 If I was going to hire somebody to be an assassin, 2072 01:48:58,488 --> 01:49:02,666 Oswald was-- Lee Harvey Oswald was probably the last person on my list. 2073 01:49:03,188 --> 01:49:05,234 [suspenseful music] 2074 01:49:07,584 --> 01:49:10,326 Even before I investigated, uh, 2075 01:49:10,848 --> 01:49:14,069 uh, I realized that you can't draw a distinction 2076 01:49:14,112 --> 01:49:17,115 between foreign and domestic, uh, conspiracies. 2077 01:49:17,551 --> 01:49:22,120 Uh, the real and best example would be the anti-Castro Cubans, 2078 01:49:22,164 --> 01:49:23,948 who I suspected at the beginning. 2079 01:49:24,296 --> 01:49:27,604 They were-- anti-Castro Cubans were largely in Florida. 2080 01:49:27,648 --> 01:49:31,129 And of course, uh, they were Cubans. [chuckles] 2081 01:49:31,173 --> 01:49:35,873 And, uh, they had relatives and friends still in Cuba. 2082 01:49:36,265 --> 01:49:40,008 And they themselves had been there just until a few years ago. 2083 01:49:40,356 --> 01:49:43,054 Uh, but this was basically true with all of them, 2084 01:49:43,098 --> 01:49:47,363 with Cuba, there was-- any conspiracy had to have, 2085 01:49:47,406 --> 01:49:50,496 uh, agents, at least, in the United States. 2086 01:49:50,540 --> 01:49:54,152 So that much, uh, we just forgot the foreign, 2087 01:49:54,196 --> 01:49:56,067 just give us the conspiracy, period. 2088 01:49:57,765 --> 01:50:00,158 The anti-Castro Cubans, 2089 01:50:00,202 --> 01:50:03,292 originally, this is my just personal opinion, 2090 01:50:03,901 --> 01:50:06,512 was that they were the prime suspect, 2091 01:50:07,035 --> 01:50:09,951 uh, because they hated Kennedy 2092 01:50:09,994 --> 01:50:14,651 because he had aborted the Bay of Pigs, uh, Invasion. 2093 01:50:15,434 --> 01:50:19,569 And they thought they could gain by having Oswald do it. 2094 01:50:19,613 --> 01:50:22,006 This is my theory at the time. 2095 01:50:22,441 --> 01:50:24,792 Uh, and then blame it on Cuba. 2096 01:50:25,227 --> 01:50:27,795 And so that would trigger a real invasion. 2097 01:50:27,838 --> 01:50:31,668 Well, we found zero evidence of this. 2098 01:50:31,712 --> 01:50:34,279 And so it boiled down to Cuba, 2099 01:50:34,323 --> 01:50:36,107 and the reason it boiled down to them 2100 01:50:36,151 --> 01:50:38,762 was because of Oswald's trip to Mexico City, 2101 01:50:39,241 --> 01:50:42,200 where he dealt with, uh, both the Cuban Embassy 2102 01:50:42,244 --> 01:50:45,508 and the Russian Embassy in ways that, uh, 2103 01:50:45,900 --> 01:50:48,946 that even to this day were not entirely clear, 2104 01:50:48,990 --> 01:50:49,947 uh, 2105 01:50:50,731 --> 01:50:52,428 except that the CIA t-- 2106 01:50:52,471 --> 01:50:54,648 did not tell us a lot that they knew. 2107 01:50:55,953 --> 01:50:58,477 [Brendan] During the Warren Commission's investigation, 2108 01:50:58,521 --> 01:51:02,264 the CIA was being led by Kennedy family friend, John McCone. 2109 01:51:03,004 --> 01:51:05,920 [David] When McCone testified before the Warren Commission, 2110 01:51:05,963 --> 01:51:09,053 uh, he didn't mention anything about Oswald 2111 01:51:09,097 --> 01:51:12,404 being in Mexico City, or at least what we knew about it. 2112 01:51:12,448 --> 01:51:14,450 The principle reason there is that we had 2113 01:51:14,493 --> 01:51:17,801 some very sensitive, uh, surveillance operations underway, 2114 01:51:17,845 --> 01:51:20,499 both audio and, uh, visual. 2115 01:51:20,543 --> 01:51:22,501 And he didn't want, in a public setting, 2116 01:51:22,545 --> 01:51:25,853 to disclose that sensitive, uh, source. 2117 01:51:25,896 --> 01:51:27,942 [light tense music] 2118 01:51:30,248 --> 01:51:32,207 [Brendan] Also kept hidden from the Warren Commission 2119 01:51:32,250 --> 01:51:35,558 was that the CIA, prior to the assassination, 2120 01:51:35,601 --> 01:51:37,734 had plans to kill Fidel Castro 2121 01:51:37,778 --> 01:51:41,172 with the full knowledge of Attorney General Robert Kennedy 2122 01:51:41,216 --> 01:51:43,348 and, presumably, President Kennedy. 2123 01:51:43,958 --> 01:51:47,570 Some of these plots involved the use of members of organized crime 2124 01:51:47,613 --> 01:51:50,921 who had a vested interest in reclaiming their casinos, 2125 01:51:50,965 --> 01:51:52,749 which they'd lost under Castro. 2126 01:51:53,445 --> 01:51:56,187 If that was the case, could the assassination 2127 01:51:56,231 --> 01:51:59,669 of President Kennedy have been a retaliation by Castro? 2128 01:52:00,322 --> 01:52:03,281 In other words, did Castro get Kennedy first? 2129 01:52:04,195 --> 01:52:06,589 The CIA didn't want the Warren Commission 2130 01:52:06,632 --> 01:52:09,548 to know about their plot to kill Castro. 2131 01:52:09,592 --> 01:52:12,726 They didn't want anyone to know that they got in bed 2132 01:52:13,204 --> 01:52:15,337 with the mob to do so. 2133 01:52:15,380 --> 01:52:18,253 When it was exposed in the 1970s 2134 01:52:18,296 --> 01:52:22,431 that the agency had been trying to kill Castro 2135 01:52:22,474 --> 01:52:25,434 through intermediaries like, uh, members of the underworld 2136 01:52:25,477 --> 01:52:26,957 and Cuban proxies and such, 2137 01:52:27,349 --> 01:52:30,874 uh, this became a big point of contention 2138 01:52:30,918 --> 01:52:34,095 about why the agency had not disclosed this to the Warren Commission. 2139 01:52:34,138 --> 01:52:37,794 The logic being that, if Castro knew we had been trying to kill him, 2140 01:52:37,838 --> 01:52:41,189 then maybe he'd used his own proxy, Lee Harvey Oswald, 2141 01:52:41,232 --> 01:52:44,279 to take out the President, who had been trying to kill him. 2142 01:52:44,888 --> 01:52:49,632 Well, we concluded very early on in our own investigation of the assassination, 2143 01:52:49,675 --> 01:52:52,461 and this is roughly mid-December, 2144 01:52:52,504 --> 01:52:54,419 I would pinpoint it, it's hard to, 2145 01:52:54,768 --> 01:52:59,076 that no foreign hand was behind the assassination, 2146 01:52:59,120 --> 01:53:01,078 that Lee Harvey Oswald, for whatever motives, 2147 01:53:01,122 --> 01:53:02,297 had done it on his own. 2148 01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:07,476 [Burt] We did know back in 1964 2149 01:53:07,519 --> 01:53:11,045 that Castro had claimed that we were trying to assassinate him. 2150 01:53:11,393 --> 01:53:17,051 But frankly, we were all stunned to find out 2151 01:53:17,486 --> 01:53:21,185 that the CIA was attempting to assassinate Castro. 2152 01:53:22,404 --> 01:53:24,710 The agency's interaction with the Warren Commission 2153 01:53:24,754 --> 01:53:26,800 I think can best be characterized 2154 01:53:26,843 --> 01:53:29,237 as passive and reactive. 2155 01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:33,458 The record is pretty clear that the CIA only gave up 2156 01:53:33,502 --> 01:53:35,112 what it was asked to give up, 2157 01:53:35,156 --> 01:53:37,332 it did not volunteer information, 2158 01:53:37,375 --> 01:53:40,552 it did not provide the Warren Commission with leads. 2159 01:53:40,596 --> 01:53:43,947 It simply responded to dozens and dozens of questions 2160 01:53:43,991 --> 01:53:45,253 as fully as it could. 2161 01:53:45,644 --> 01:53:47,211 But this was part of, I think, 2162 01:53:47,255 --> 01:53:49,692 the conscious effort to make sure 2163 01:53:49,735 --> 01:53:53,565 the Warren Commission, from CIA's light, stayed on track 2164 01:53:53,609 --> 01:53:56,873 looking at Oswald as the assassin 2165 01:53:56,917 --> 01:53:59,658 and not running down these blind alleys 2166 01:53:59,702 --> 01:54:02,748 looking at possible conspiracies involving the Soviets, 2167 01:54:02,792 --> 01:54:05,186 the Cubans, the underworld, uh, whomever. 2168 01:54:05,795 --> 01:54:08,842 And that, later on, came to be seen 2169 01:54:08,885 --> 01:54:10,452 as bit of a cover-up. 2170 01:54:10,844 --> 01:54:13,194 And the agency did suffer some, 2171 01:54:13,237 --> 01:54:16,632 uh, public, uh, recriminations because of that. 2172 01:54:16,937 --> 01:54:18,808 [Howard] It raises, you know, the broader question 2173 01:54:18,852 --> 01:54:20,897 that people have raised over the years 2174 01:54:20,941 --> 01:54:23,204 as whether people like Allen Dulles, 2175 01:54:23,639 --> 01:54:27,295 uh, and Robert Kennedy and others at CIA 2176 01:54:27,338 --> 01:54:31,995 who knew of CIA agency plans to assassinate Castro 2177 01:54:32,604 --> 01:54:34,650 should have affirmatively come forward 2178 01:54:34,955 --> 01:54:36,347 and told the Commission 2179 01:54:36,957 --> 01:54:40,917 that they knew of such planning by the CIA, 2180 01:54:40,961 --> 01:54:43,180 so as to permit the Commission to investigate 2181 01:54:43,224 --> 01:54:46,836 whether those plans and the people they may have involved 2182 01:54:47,271 --> 01:54:49,752 suggested any lines of investigation 2183 01:54:49,795 --> 01:54:51,406 that should have been explored. 2184 01:54:52,233 --> 01:54:54,975 And most of the staff would say, "Yes, 2185 01:54:55,018 --> 01:54:56,280 it should have been disclosed, 2186 01:54:57,020 --> 01:54:59,849 uh, and yes, we would've conducted a somewhat 2187 01:55:00,241 --> 01:55:01,938 more thorough investigation." 2188 01:55:02,417 --> 01:55:06,682 Uh, but lastly, it would not have changed the ultimate findings, 2189 01:55:06,725 --> 01:55:08,553 because, in fact, the House Select Committee, 2190 01:55:08,989 --> 01:55:12,993 uh, did know of these facts, did conduct a more thorough investigation 2191 01:55:13,036 --> 01:55:15,473 and came up with the same findings that we had, 2192 01:55:15,517 --> 01:55:17,388 namely the lack of any involvement, 2193 01:55:17,823 --> 01:55:22,263 uh, by Cuba in the assassination of President Kennedy. 2194 01:55:22,828 --> 01:55:24,961 [Brendan] The details about these CIA plots 2195 01:55:25,005 --> 01:55:27,442 only came to light in 1975 2196 01:55:27,790 --> 01:55:30,749 during an investigation by the Rockefeller Commission 2197 01:55:30,793 --> 01:55:32,795 into CIA activities. 2198 01:55:34,014 --> 01:55:38,322 There was no foreign conspiracy including, in particular, Cuba. 2199 01:55:38,932 --> 01:55:42,587 Uh, why I'm so firm on this, even though, 2200 01:55:42,936 --> 01:55:47,070 uh, I know lot about that was blocked from u-- us finding out? 2201 01:55:47,636 --> 01:55:51,814 Uh, one, we were able to find out a lot, 2202 01:55:51,857 --> 01:55:54,991 and it was all negative in that respect. 2203 01:55:55,035 --> 01:56:00,649 The other thing is the CIA hated Castro. Absolutely hated. 2204 01:56:01,041 --> 01:56:04,044 Uh, when I was talking with, uh, Ray Rocca once, 2205 01:56:04,087 --> 01:56:06,002 just as an illustration, 2206 01:56:06,046 --> 01:56:08,962 I suggested something that slightly ameliorated 2207 01:56:09,005 --> 01:56:11,834 what he migh-- the evilness of what he had done. 2208 01:56:11,877 --> 01:56:15,142 And Ray got up, we were talking, we were sitting at a table, 2209 01:56:15,185 --> 01:56:17,709 he banged the table with his fists, he says, 2210 01:56:17,753 --> 01:56:20,669 "Castro is a devil! A devil!" [chuckles] 2211 01:56:20,712 --> 01:56:23,759 And I just laughed like this. 2212 01:56:23,802 --> 01:56:27,676 I mean, those guys, if they could've pinned it on Castro, 2213 01:56:27,719 --> 01:56:30,157 would have done it, no doubt. 2214 01:56:30,200 --> 01:56:33,638 So despite everything they hid from me, 2215 01:56:34,291 --> 01:56:35,989 in th-- that they knew, 2216 01:56:36,380 --> 01:56:41,081 in their own eyes, despite their fervent wishes, 2217 01:56:41,124 --> 01:56:43,300 they couldn't pin it on Castro. 2218 01:56:43,344 --> 01:56:45,389 [suspenseful music] 2219 01:56:47,348 --> 01:56:50,699 [Vincent] Oswald revered Fidel Castro 2220 01:56:50,742 --> 01:56:54,007 and was a very strong supporter of the Cuban Revolution. 2221 01:56:54,398 --> 01:56:55,965 He obviously was opposed 2222 01:56:56,009 --> 01:56:59,055 to the Bay of Pigs Invasion in 1961, 2223 01:56:59,099 --> 01:57:00,622 which Kennedy supported. 2224 01:57:01,101 --> 01:57:02,754 [Kennedy] I can assure you 2225 01:57:03,451 --> 01:57:06,671 that this flag will be returned 2226 01:57:06,715 --> 01:57:09,065 to this brigade in a free Havana. 2227 01:57:09,109 --> 01:57:10,893 [crowd cheering] 2228 01:57:11,459 --> 01:57:13,983 [Vincent] Five days before the assassination, 2229 01:57:14,027 --> 01:57:16,551 Kennedy gave a foreign policy speech 2230 01:57:17,117 --> 01:57:18,988 in, uh, Miami, 2231 01:57:19,032 --> 01:57:22,557 in which he all but invited the Cuban people to rise up 2232 01:57:22,600 --> 01:57:26,996 against Castro, promising prompt US aid if they did. 2233 01:57:28,258 --> 01:57:32,436 Uh, the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee 2234 01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:34,699 both believe, and I agree with them, 2235 01:57:35,396 --> 01:57:40,227 that Oswald's love for Castro and Cuba played a part 2236 01:57:40,662 --> 01:57:44,187 in his motive for killing Kennedy, 2237 01:57:44,709 --> 01:57:47,451 We also have every reason to believe now 2238 01:57:47,495 --> 01:57:51,107 that Oswald believed that we were trying 2239 01:57:51,151 --> 01:57:53,849 to assassinate Castro. 2240 01:57:54,241 --> 01:57:57,722 Uh, Castro blamed the United States 2241 01:57:57,766 --> 01:58:02,553 for trying to do that in September 1963, 2242 01:58:02,597 --> 01:58:06,166 when Oswald was still living in New Orleans. 2243 01:58:06,209 --> 01:58:10,735 And it was published in the New Orleans, uh, Times Picayune, 2244 01:58:10,779 --> 01:58:15,000 and Oswald was a devoted, inveterate newspaper reader. 2245 01:58:15,044 --> 01:58:18,700 Moreover, Oswald had a shortwave radio that-- 2246 01:58:18,743 --> 01:58:21,833 which he listened to and which he had with him 2247 01:58:21,877 --> 01:58:26,534 in this tiny little room that he lived in, uh, in Dallas, 2248 01:58:26,577 --> 01:58:28,753 in this rooming house when he lived alone 2249 01:58:28,797 --> 01:58:30,538 after he came back from Cuba. 2250 01:58:31,016 --> 01:58:35,630 And Havana radio was filled with accusations 2251 01:58:35,673 --> 01:58:38,198 that the United States was trying to assassinate 2252 01:58:38,241 --> 01:58:39,634 Castro and other people. 2253 01:58:39,677 --> 01:58:41,766 So my own feeling was that, 2254 01:58:41,810 --> 01:58:44,987 one, Oswald saw that there was nothing immoral 2255 01:58:45,596 --> 01:58:49,165 about assassinating the President of the United States. 2256 01:58:49,209 --> 01:58:51,428 And moreover, that maybe he could protect... 2257 01:58:52,647 --> 01:58:55,432 Castro, if the right-wing got blamed. 2258 01:58:56,346 --> 01:58:59,871 Murder is the most personal of all crimes. 2259 01:59:00,220 --> 01:59:01,917 Unless money is involved, 2260 01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:05,399 usually the main passion and motive for murder is hatred. 2261 01:59:06,356 --> 01:59:10,186 [Brendan] As part of his preparation for the unscripted mock trial, 2262 01:59:10,230 --> 01:59:13,972 Bugliosi felt he needed to find a motive for Oswald's action. 2263 01:59:14,451 --> 01:59:17,498 It was his experience prosecuting Charles Manson 2264 01:59:17,541 --> 01:59:18,890 that made it clear to him. 2265 01:59:20,109 --> 01:59:24,200 [Vincent] Manson never knew the precise identity 2266 01:59:24,244 --> 01:59:28,117 of the people whom he ordered his minions to kill, 2267 01:59:28,161 --> 01:59:30,119 but he knew they were members of the establishment, 2268 01:59:30,163 --> 01:59:32,077 and he hated the establishment. 2269 01:59:32,687 --> 01:59:38,214 So, in a sense, the Manson murders were representative murders. 2270 01:59:38,562 --> 01:59:42,653 The victims represented the establishment to Charles Manson. 2271 01:59:43,176 --> 01:59:46,657 Oswald had this kind of a curious, uh, entry, 2272 01:59:46,701 --> 01:59:48,572 a very important entry to me. 2273 01:59:49,182 --> 01:59:53,316 He said, "I've lived under capitalism and communism 2274 01:59:54,056 --> 01:59:56,406 and I despise..." 2275 01:59:56,450 --> 01:59:59,714 there is that hatred that I was looking for, 2276 02:00:00,280 --> 02:00:03,848 "...I despise the representatives 2277 02:00:04,327 --> 02:00:05,676 of both systems." 2278 02:00:06,503 --> 02:00:08,462 He certainly must have looked upon Kennedy 2279 02:00:08,505 --> 02:00:11,073 as the ultimate quintessential representative 2280 02:00:11,116 --> 02:00:15,425 of a society for which he had a grinding contempt. 2281 02:00:16,600 --> 02:00:19,864 And when he fired at Kennedy, 2282 02:00:20,604 --> 02:00:23,825 in his addled mind he may have been firing 2283 02:00:23,868 --> 02:00:26,001 at the United States of America. 2284 02:00:28,177 --> 02:00:29,831 [Brendan] In 1975, 2285 02:00:29,874 --> 02:00:32,529 it was another previously hidden bit of information 2286 02:00:32,573 --> 02:00:35,967 that added to the conviction that Oswald acted alone. 2287 02:00:36,359 --> 02:00:38,970 It involved Dallas FBI agent James Hosty. 2288 02:00:39,014 --> 02:00:40,842 [light suspenseful music] 2289 02:00:40,885 --> 02:00:43,410 [Burt] James Hosty is an FBI agent 2290 02:00:43,453 --> 02:00:47,892 whose duty was to keep track of Oswald. 2291 02:00:48,937 --> 02:00:53,811 And he then goes to the only address-- 2292 02:00:54,986 --> 02:00:57,772 residential address that he has for Oswald 2293 02:00:57,815 --> 02:01:00,470 in a-- with the intention of talking to Marina 2294 02:01:00,514 --> 02:01:03,168 and finding out where-- well, thinking, actually, that, 2295 02:01:03,212 --> 02:01:05,562 that that's where Oswald lived, 2296 02:01:05,606 --> 02:01:07,347 but later finding out that he wasn't there, 2297 02:01:07,390 --> 02:01:09,958 but he doesn't get an address because Marina and Ruth 2298 02:01:10,001 --> 02:01:11,873 don't have an address for him either. 2299 02:01:11,916 --> 02:01:13,962 [gentle suspenseful piano music] 2300 02:01:17,400 --> 02:01:19,663 [Priscilla] Oswald had moved around so much 2301 02:01:19,707 --> 02:01:22,710 that the FBI didn't really know where he was yet. 2302 02:01:23,232 --> 02:01:26,191 [Burt] When Oswald found out that Hosty had been there, 2303 02:01:27,018 --> 02:01:31,284 he was very concerned, asked Marina not to tell, 2304 02:01:31,675 --> 02:01:34,199 uh, Hosty anything, 2305 02:01:34,678 --> 02:01:36,941 uh, and, um, 2306 02:01:37,290 --> 02:01:40,031 and asked Marina to take down, 2307 02:01:40,641 --> 02:01:44,340 uh, the license plate and the description of any car 2308 02:01:44,688 --> 02:01:46,647 that Hosty might have if he came back 2309 02:01:46,690 --> 02:01:48,257 to interview him. And he did come back. 2310 02:01:49,345 --> 02:01:52,740 He finds out that Hosty has come back a second time. 2311 02:01:53,567 --> 02:01:55,569 So he's really upset about this. 2312 02:01:56,744 --> 02:02:00,269 The FBI Office is not too far from the Texas School Book Depository, 2313 02:02:00,313 --> 02:02:04,055 so it would be an easy walk for Oswald to go to the FBI Office. 2314 02:02:04,969 --> 02:02:07,450 Oswald goes there and leaves 2315 02:02:08,059 --> 02:02:10,758 an angry note to Hosty. 2316 02:02:12,368 --> 02:02:14,631 And the note contained the information 2317 02:02:15,066 --> 02:02:20,333 that the secretary at the FBI Office says it contained. 2318 02:02:20,768 --> 02:02:24,554 It was a threat to blow up the FBI Office... [chuckles] 2319 02:02:25,033 --> 02:02:29,124 ...if, if Hosty didn't stop pestering his wife. 2320 02:02:30,386 --> 02:02:31,344 Now, come on. 2321 02:02:31,779 --> 02:02:34,172 Is someone who is planning 2322 02:02:34,216 --> 02:02:37,393 to assassinate the President on November 12th 2323 02:02:37,959 --> 02:02:42,398 going to go to the FBI and leave that kind of a note? 2324 02:02:42,964 --> 02:02:44,879 It's very likely that he's going to get arrested 2325 02:02:44,922 --> 02:02:45,967 within a few days. 2326 02:02:47,621 --> 02:02:49,884 Because it's quite clear that a threatening note of that kind 2327 02:02:49,927 --> 02:02:52,016 should have forced Hosty or persuaded him 2328 02:02:52,452 --> 02:02:56,107 to attach a higher urgency to interviewing, uh, Oswald 2329 02:02:56,151 --> 02:02:57,935 than he presently was exhibiting. 2330 02:02:58,588 --> 02:03:01,330 And it is my view, of course, that if he had gone to interview... 2331 02:03:01,896 --> 02:03:07,510 [stutters] Oswald within the week following receipt of this threatening note, 2332 02:03:07,989 --> 02:03:11,427 that interview in itself would probably have deterred Oswald 2333 02:03:11,471 --> 02:03:12,863 from any assassination attempt. 2334 02:03:12,907 --> 02:03:14,952 [tense music] 2335 02:03:18,913 --> 02:03:23,265 Hosty is very upset and distressed when he finds out 2336 02:03:23,308 --> 02:03:25,963 that the man he's supposed to be keeping tabs on 2337 02:03:26,007 --> 02:03:27,356 is the one who's been arrested 2338 02:03:27,400 --> 02:03:29,402 for the shooting of President Kennedy. 2339 02:03:30,620 --> 02:03:35,059 Hosty then goes to discuss the note and shows the note 2340 02:03:35,103 --> 02:03:37,671 to his supervisor, Gordon Shanklin. 2341 02:03:37,714 --> 02:03:41,239 And Shanklin is terrified by this. 2342 02:03:41,283 --> 02:03:45,330 And his fear of what will happen if J. Edgar Hoover 2343 02:03:45,679 --> 02:03:47,985 finds out about this note 2344 02:03:48,029 --> 02:03:50,335 and that Hosty never did anything about it 2345 02:03:50,858 --> 02:03:52,207 is petrifying to him. 2346 02:03:52,729 --> 02:03:54,165 When Oswald is killed, 2347 02:03:55,471 --> 02:03:59,170 uh, Shanklin then, according to Hosty, 2348 02:03:59,867 --> 02:04:01,651 tells Hosty to destroy the note, 2349 02:04:02,739 --> 02:04:06,439 which Hosty does. And the Warren Commission is never told about this. 2350 02:04:06,482 --> 02:04:08,266 If we had known about that note, 2351 02:04:08,310 --> 02:04:11,705 we would've known two things. 2352 02:04:12,488 --> 02:04:16,753 One, we would've been reinforced in our belief 2353 02:04:16,797 --> 02:04:20,714 that there was no evidence that Oswald was involved 2354 02:04:20,757 --> 02:04:23,543 in a conspiracy, certainly not before he left the note. 2355 02:04:24,631 --> 02:04:25,675 Second of all, 2356 02:04:27,547 --> 02:04:33,640 it would-- it would've shown in a very clear way 2357 02:04:34,336 --> 02:04:37,252 that the FBI had failed to protect the President. 2358 02:04:38,732 --> 02:04:41,648 Because here's a guy who is threatening the FBI, 2359 02:04:42,779 --> 02:04:47,218 surely you got to have somebody looking at this guy 2360 02:04:47,958 --> 02:04:51,092 when he's right along the route of the motorcade. 2361 02:04:52,049 --> 02:04:54,530 Oswald was a very strange fellow. 2362 02:04:55,226 --> 02:04:59,230 Uh, that was another evidence of his strangeness. 2363 02:04:59,666 --> 02:05:03,583 The text of that letter, obviously, was never known. 2364 02:05:03,626 --> 02:05:07,630 I'm not sure that it would've raised the level of concern 2365 02:05:07,674 --> 02:05:10,067 in the areas that, uh, 2366 02:05:11,678 --> 02:05:15,203 relate to the FBI's, uh, 2367 02:05:15,986 --> 02:05:18,380 accomplishment of its duty to communicate 2368 02:05:18,423 --> 02:05:20,687 with the Secret Service. 2369 02:05:21,818 --> 02:05:24,299 There was no evidence of Oswald's 2370 02:05:25,082 --> 02:05:27,650 engaging in any violent activity, 2371 02:05:27,694 --> 02:05:32,089 no one at the time knew about his attack on General Walker. 2372 02:05:32,786 --> 02:05:35,310 Uh, he had a, uh, 2373 02:05:35,963 --> 02:05:37,965 bizarre history. 2374 02:05:38,661 --> 02:05:41,838 I think it took some hindsight to, uh, 2375 02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:47,496 clearly determine that Oswald was within the standards 2376 02:05:47,540 --> 02:05:52,762 that they were, uh, looking for for a potential threat. 2377 02:05:53,328 --> 02:05:56,984 The two main cover-ups by the CIA and the FBI 2378 02:05:57,550 --> 02:05:59,464 had nothing to do with the Warren Commission. 2379 02:06:00,074 --> 02:06:03,860 Both agencies were trying to protect themselves. 2380 02:06:04,818 --> 02:06:07,821 [David Slawson] Clarence Kelley, who later became FBI Director 2381 02:06:07,864 --> 02:06:11,738 after Hoover, says almost literally in his, 2382 02:06:11,781 --> 02:06:15,219 uh, in fact he does say it literally in his memoirs, 2383 02:06:15,655 --> 02:06:21,922 is that if the Dallas Office of the FBI had known 2384 02:06:22,313 --> 02:06:26,361 what was known elsewhere in the FBI's files, 2385 02:06:27,014 --> 02:06:29,669 the President would not have died 2386 02:06:29,712 --> 02:06:33,237 in Dallas on November 22nd, 1963. 2387 02:06:33,934 --> 02:06:38,547 And, uh, that's my opinion, too, now. 2388 02:06:42,072 --> 02:06:44,118 [suspenseful music] 2389 02:06:45,075 --> 02:06:49,427 [Brendan] In 1991, Oliver Stone's filmJFK was released. 2390 02:06:49,863 --> 02:06:51,691 The film dramatized the idea 2391 02:06:51,734 --> 02:06:54,345 that President Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy. 2392 02:06:54,781 --> 02:06:58,132 To make matters worse, a study guide was sent to educators 2393 02:06:58,175 --> 02:07:00,743 in conjunction with the film's release, 2394 02:07:00,787 --> 02:07:03,572 reinforcing the idea of conspiracy. 2395 02:07:04,268 --> 02:07:07,141 Many educators now teach the assassination 2396 02:07:07,184 --> 02:07:09,578 as an unsolved, controversial crime, 2397 02:07:09,622 --> 02:07:12,407 exactly what Judge Griffin and I try to combat 2398 02:07:12,450 --> 02:07:13,756 when we go into schools. 2399 02:07:14,278 --> 02:07:16,541 The film did, however, spur the release 2400 02:07:16,585 --> 02:07:19,283 of assassination records that had been sealed. 2401 02:07:20,415 --> 02:07:24,027 99.9% of the Warren Commission records 2402 02:07:24,071 --> 02:07:26,769 and the House Select Committee, uh, records 2403 02:07:26,813 --> 02:07:29,598 have been released for review by the American people. 2404 02:07:29,642 --> 02:07:32,819 Now what about the one tenth of one percent 2405 02:07:32,862 --> 02:07:35,473 that still have not been, uh, released? 2406 02:07:35,952 --> 02:07:38,346 I spoke to G. Robert Blakey, 2407 02:07:38,389 --> 02:07:40,870 the Chief Counsel of the House Select Committee, 2408 02:07:40,914 --> 02:07:45,222 and also to Judge John Tunheim, 2409 02:07:45,266 --> 02:07:48,704 the Chief Counsel for the Assassination Records Review Board. 2410 02:07:48,748 --> 02:07:53,927 They both assured me that their staff saw 100% 2411 02:07:53,970 --> 02:07:56,973 of the records in their unredacted form, 2412 02:07:57,931 --> 02:07:59,019 100%. 2413 02:07:59,062 --> 02:08:01,630 And there was no smoking gun. 2414 02:08:02,805 --> 02:08:05,547 ["Symphony No. 3, Funeral March" by Beethoven] 2415 02:08:16,906 --> 02:08:20,170 If we think it takes some really extraordinary person 2416 02:08:20,214 --> 02:08:23,696 or extraordinary circumstances to kill a president, 2417 02:08:24,044 --> 02:08:26,481 then we're not able to protect the president. 2418 02:08:27,569 --> 02:08:30,659 The tremendous irony here is that most of these people 2419 02:08:30,703 --> 02:08:32,617 love and revere JFK, 2420 02:08:33,270 --> 02:08:35,882 and yet they've devoted a good part of their life 2421 02:08:35,925 --> 02:08:38,754 desperately trying to exonerate Lee Harvey Oswald, 2422 02:08:38,798 --> 02:08:42,889 the very person who brutally murdered their hero JFK. 2423 02:08:42,932 --> 02:08:47,241 For some people, being told, "This is the evidence we have. 2424 02:08:47,284 --> 02:08:50,592 This is our conclusion," um, is sufficient, 2425 02:08:51,027 --> 02:08:55,118 um, knowing that there are lots of coincidences 2426 02:08:55,162 --> 02:08:57,730 that are nothing but coincidence. 2427 02:08:58,165 --> 02:09:03,431 There are a lot of other people for whom the notion that huge events 2428 02:09:03,474 --> 02:09:07,391 like a presidential assassination can occur, um, 2429 02:09:08,349 --> 02:09:11,744 really as a circumstantial coincidental matter, 2430 02:09:12,092 --> 02:09:14,964 Oswald happening to be in the Depository, 2431 02:09:15,008 --> 02:09:18,272 the path of the parade happening to go that way, 2432 02:09:18,315 --> 02:09:21,231 all the other things that combine to produce an event, 2433 02:09:21,275 --> 02:09:24,365 to lots of people, that's very disturbing. 2434 02:09:24,844 --> 02:09:28,195 Um, they find it much more acceptable 2435 02:09:28,238 --> 02:09:30,414 to believe that there's a conspiracy, 2436 02:09:30,458 --> 02:09:34,375 because if there's a conspiracy, at least someone planned it. 2437 02:09:34,767 --> 02:09:38,466 It wasn't a random coincidence. 2438 02:09:39,162 --> 02:09:43,819 They say the only real predictor of future behavior 2439 02:09:44,472 --> 02:09:46,082 is past behavior. 2440 02:09:46,691 --> 02:09:51,348 And no one but Marina knew that his past behavior 2441 02:09:51,392 --> 02:09:53,568 included trying to shoot somebody. 2442 02:09:54,787 --> 02:09:56,484 [shakily] Too bad we didn't know. 2443 02:10:00,749 --> 02:10:02,098 when I read, as I do, 2444 02:10:02,142 --> 02:10:03,578 that there were certain facts 2445 02:10:03,621 --> 02:10:05,449 that were not given to the Commission, 2446 02:10:05,493 --> 02:10:07,625 that they didn't find out about this or that 2447 02:10:07,669 --> 02:10:10,063 or the other thing, I read those with interest. 2448 02:10:10,106 --> 02:10:11,891 But I ask myself this question. 2449 02:10:12,282 --> 02:10:15,372 I say, "Alright. Now you have new information, 2450 02:10:15,764 --> 02:10:17,592 uh, that was not there. 2451 02:10:17,635 --> 02:10:20,464 Does that information make it more likely 2452 02:10:21,726 --> 02:10:25,034 that there was someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald 2453 02:10:25,078 --> 02:10:27,428 and the others named in the-- th-- at the report, 2454 02:10:27,471 --> 02:10:29,256 does it make the report likely, 2455 02:10:29,299 --> 02:10:31,736 in its overall conclusions, to be false? 2456 02:10:32,172 --> 02:10:35,262 Or, if you had this balancing, which you have to have, 2457 02:10:35,305 --> 02:10:37,655 would you say you still believe that it is true?" 2458 02:10:37,699 --> 02:10:41,050 Yes, it is true. Because with all that information, 2459 02:10:42,008 --> 02:10:43,313 adding it altogether, 2460 02:10:43,748 --> 02:10:45,925 it does not show, in my opinion, 2461 02:10:46,316 --> 02:10:49,102 that it is more likely that something else happened 2462 02:10:49,145 --> 02:10:52,018 of significance than what they say happened. 2463 02:10:53,410 --> 02:10:55,586 And if anything had come out 2464 02:10:56,500 --> 02:11:00,461 in intervening period, which would, in my opinion, 2465 02:11:00,504 --> 02:11:03,681 have caused anyone of us to have said, 2466 02:11:04,291 --> 02:11:05,988 "No, Oswald didn't do it." 2467 02:11:06,510 --> 02:11:10,688 Uh, or, "Oswald was involved in a conspiracy." 2468 02:11:11,254 --> 02:11:15,128 Or, uh, that someone else was involved in the conspiracy, 2469 02:11:15,171 --> 02:11:18,479 but not Oswald, similarly for Ruby... 2470 02:11:20,785 --> 02:11:23,310 Everybody I knew who worked on that staff 2471 02:11:23,353 --> 02:11:25,878 would've stood up at this point, not just me, 2472 02:11:26,269 --> 02:11:29,142 but everybody I knew that would've-- woul-- wo-- stood up on the-- 2473 02:11:29,751 --> 02:11:32,319 stood up today and said, "This was a mistake 2474 02:11:32,362 --> 02:11:34,669 and we've got to go and correct it." 2475 02:11:35,191 --> 02:11:37,324 what more can you do to convince them? 2476 02:11:37,715 --> 02:11:40,544 And the fact is that there're people 2477 02:11:40,588 --> 02:11:42,764 that will never be convinced. 2478 02:11:42,807 --> 02:11:44,548 And it-- and that's true, 2479 02:11:44,984 --> 02:11:47,029 uh, whether we're talking about the assassination 2480 02:11:47,073 --> 02:11:48,422 or we're talking about climate weather, 2481 02:11:48,465 --> 02:11:50,250 or we're talking about, uh, 2482 02:11:50,293 --> 02:11:52,948 measles vaccinations or, or whatever. 2483 02:11:53,340 --> 02:11:55,168 And it's, it's frustrating, 2484 02:11:55,211 --> 02:11:57,953 because it does strike me at least 2485 02:11:57,997 --> 02:11:59,999 as being completely irrational. 2486 02:12:01,348 --> 02:12:05,569 Ironically, the agency's, I think, legitimate decision 2487 02:12:05,613 --> 02:12:07,615 not to tell the Warren Commission 2488 02:12:07,658 --> 02:12:10,096 about its anti-Castro activities 2489 02:12:10,835 --> 02:12:14,709 possibly did more to harm the Warren Commission's credibility 2490 02:12:14,752 --> 02:12:16,885 than any other thing the agency did 2491 02:12:16,929 --> 02:12:18,452 or, in this case, didn't do. 2492 02:12:19,018 --> 02:12:23,674 The concealment of evidence from the Commission 2493 02:12:24,284 --> 02:12:27,069 by the FBI and by the CIA 2494 02:12:27,548 --> 02:12:30,768 inescapably causes people 2495 02:12:30,812 --> 02:12:32,814 to distrust the Commission itself. 2496 02:12:32,857 --> 02:12:34,468 Once you have... 2497 02:12:37,558 --> 02:12:40,735 uh, employees of the federal government 2498 02:12:40,778 --> 02:12:43,607 lying in an investigation, 2499 02:12:44,478 --> 02:12:47,350 you undermine that investigation in a major way. 2500 02:12:47,394 --> 02:12:49,831 So it was terrible what they did, 2501 02:12:49,874 --> 02:12:52,312 and if there's any lesson to be learned out of this, 2502 02:12:52,921 --> 02:12:55,402 you know, you got to tell the truth 2503 02:12:56,620 --> 02:13:00,233 and then got to deal with-- i-- if it's going to hurt you in some way, 2504 02:13:00,276 --> 02:13:01,364 you got to deal with it. 2505 02:13:01,408 --> 02:13:04,454 [suspenseful instrumental music] 2506 02:13:08,937 --> 02:13:11,896 Th-- the Warren Commission report became 2507 02:13:11,940 --> 02:13:14,421 more and more, uh, challenged, 2508 02:13:14,769 --> 02:13:16,727 uh, through the decade and subsequently, 2509 02:13:16,771 --> 02:13:19,165 as we lived in a life of the Vietnam War, 2510 02:13:19,208 --> 02:13:22,603 assassinations of Reverend King and the, uh, 2511 02:13:23,299 --> 02:13:25,910 Senator Kennedy, civil strife, 2512 02:13:25,954 --> 02:13:27,738 more presidential commissions 2513 02:13:27,782 --> 02:13:30,350 looking at these issues, Watergate, 2514 02:13:30,785 --> 02:13:33,657 uh, I-- I think there is an underlying distrust 2515 02:13:33,701 --> 02:13:36,617 of government institutions and I think people, the-- 2516 02:13:36,660 --> 02:13:39,663 I have to reconcile myself to the fact that that distrust 2517 02:13:40,186 --> 02:13:41,752 applied to the Warren Commission 2518 02:13:41,796 --> 02:13:44,712 at the beginning of this tumultuous decade 2519 02:13:44,755 --> 02:13:47,628 and, uh, and that distrust remains today. 2520 02:13:47,671 --> 02:13:51,066 So this is one of the real tragedies in this country, 2521 02:13:51,110 --> 02:13:55,810 the loss of trust and faith in the government. 2522 02:13:56,376 --> 02:13:59,944 The belief that "Can we really trust the government?" 2523 02:14:00,467 --> 02:14:03,339 When the trust and confidence of the American people 2524 02:14:04,079 --> 02:14:07,039 in their government is undermined to the extent 2525 02:14:07,082 --> 02:14:10,738 that they believe that the government 2526 02:14:10,781 --> 02:14:13,436 is an accessory after the fact to the President's murder 2527 02:14:13,480 --> 02:14:15,612 in the sense that they're concealing the truth, 2528 02:14:16,091 --> 02:14:18,963 uh, from them, this has to have had 2529 02:14:19,007 --> 02:14:21,879 a deleterious effect upon the nation's psyche. 2530 02:14:23,142 --> 02:14:27,102 For me, that is the lasting tragedy of the assassination. 2531 02:14:27,755 --> 02:14:30,801 It's become a signpost for the end of trust in our government. 2532 02:14:31,367 --> 02:14:33,108 Yet, when you think about it, 2533 02:14:33,152 --> 02:14:36,155 our system persevered and moved forward 2534 02:14:36,198 --> 02:14:39,723 in spite of the cover-ups and destroyed evidence. 2535 02:14:41,290 --> 02:14:45,294 The legacy of President Kennedy is not failed idealism, 2536 02:14:46,165 --> 02:14:49,864 but a strong harvest of seeds that took root and grew. 2537 02:14:50,343 --> 02:14:53,433 In fact, Progressivism thrived. 2538 02:14:54,347 --> 02:14:57,001 Less than one year after President Kennedy's death, 2539 02:14:57,306 --> 02:15:00,483 Congress passed sweeping civil rights legislation 2540 02:15:00,527 --> 02:15:03,704 and soon life changing domestic policies, 2541 02:15:03,747 --> 02:15:05,662 such as The Great Society, 2542 02:15:05,706 --> 02:15:07,969 including Medicare and Medicaid. 2543 02:15:08,970 --> 02:15:12,016 In 1967, Thurgood Marshall became 2544 02:15:12,060 --> 02:15:15,019 the first African American Supreme Court Justice. 2545 02:15:15,585 --> 02:15:18,110 Within six years of the assassination, 2546 02:15:18,675 --> 02:15:20,068 we landed on the moon. 2547 02:15:20,851 --> 02:15:22,331 By the 1970s, 2548 02:15:22,679 --> 02:15:25,160 key facts concealed from the Warren Commission 2549 02:15:25,204 --> 02:15:27,771 by the CIA and FBI became public. 2550 02:15:28,772 --> 02:15:30,034 So the system worked. 2551 02:15:31,601 --> 02:15:34,909 The danger of adhering to endless conspiracy theories 2552 02:15:35,475 --> 02:15:37,346 is that it makes people apathetic 2553 02:15:37,390 --> 02:15:39,392 and leads them to poor decision making. 2554 02:15:40,306 --> 02:15:43,874 Maybe it's time to view the history of the assassination with a critical eye 2555 02:15:44,353 --> 02:15:48,357 and to separate facts from speculation. 2556 02:15:49,576 --> 02:15:51,317 And maybe it's time to pause 2557 02:15:52,361 --> 02:15:54,494 and honor a group of young men 2558 02:15:54,842 --> 02:15:58,628 for which truth was the only client. 2559 02:16:08,247 --> 02:16:11,250 ["Symphony No. 3, Funeral March" by Beethoven] 2560 02:16:30,878 --> 02:16:33,576 It's a strange feeling. The life goes on and, 2561 02:16:34,011 --> 02:16:36,362 you know, in another 20, 30 years, uh, 2562 02:16:36,405 --> 02:16:38,102 you know, we'll, we'll all be gone. 2563 02:16:38,451 --> 02:16:40,888 And we wonder, as Burt was saying, 2564 02:16:40,931 --> 02:16:42,977 you know, how people are going to look back on it then. 2565 02:16:43,543 --> 02:16:47,286 We're very satisfied that we had done what we were asked to do 2566 02:16:47,329 --> 02:16:50,550 and that we had pursued it, we had come up with a credible, 2567 02:16:50,941 --> 02:16:52,813 uh, reliable explanation. 2568 02:16:53,161 --> 02:16:54,206 And, uh, 2569 02:16:54,815 --> 02:16:58,949 I-- I still take a pride in what we did 2570 02:16:59,428 --> 02:17:03,432 and think that despite all the criticism and other theories, 2571 02:17:03,780 --> 02:17:06,566 uh, a-- as Warren himself said, 2572 02:17:06,609 --> 02:17:08,959 history will remember us as having been right. 2573 02:17:10,483 --> 02:17:15,270 I certainly am just as certain now as I-- as I was then, 2574 02:17:15,314 --> 02:17:17,403 that, uh, both those things are true. 2575 02:17:17,446 --> 02:17:19,796 Ho-- Oswald was the only shooter 2576 02:17:19,840 --> 02:17:21,233 and there's no conspiracy. 2577 02:17:22,886 --> 02:17:25,367 The facts that have been disclosed since our investigation 2578 02:17:25,411 --> 02:17:27,804 that should have been disclosed to me, 2579 02:17:28,327 --> 02:17:32,983 uh, have shown nothing about that there was a conspiracy, 2580 02:17:33,419 --> 02:17:37,814 and most of it have showed affirmatively that there was not. 2581 02:17:38,946 --> 02:17:42,602 This was not a trial, this was not a court proceeding. 2582 02:17:42,645 --> 02:17:44,691 This was a quest for the truth. 2583 02:17:45,344 --> 02:17:47,694 That, that-- and, and I raise this 2584 02:17:47,737 --> 02:17:49,696 when I talk to lawyers and I said, 2585 02:17:49,739 --> 02:17:52,307 "You know, trials are not a quest for the truth, 2586 02:17:52,655 --> 02:17:55,049 the-- they're a battle of who's going to win." 2587 02:17:55,397 --> 02:17:58,792 And, uh, and one of the things that lawyers try to do 2588 02:17:58,835 --> 02:18:02,839 is conceal anything that might harm their side of the case. 2589 02:18:03,405 --> 02:18:05,625 But we were engaged in something that I think 2590 02:18:05,668 --> 02:18:07,017 was better than a trial. 2591 02:18:08,584 --> 02:18:12,719 There's also the personal CYA factor. 2592 02:18:13,328 --> 02:18:17,419 And, uh, that's ingrained in human nature. 2593 02:18:17,463 --> 02:18:22,685 Uh, certainly an element when we see what the FBI withheld from us, 2594 02:18:22,729 --> 02:18:28,038 when you see, uh, the testimony of the director of the FBI, 2595 02:18:28,082 --> 02:18:30,998 who just absolutely out and out, 2596 02:18:31,041 --> 02:18:33,522 unquestionably lied to the Commission, 2597 02:18:33,566 --> 02:18:36,917 uh, to protect himself, protect his agency. 2598 02:18:38,092 --> 02:18:42,618 And, uh, that's a human factor, 2599 02:18:42,662 --> 02:18:44,141 human frailty, 2600 02:18:44,185 --> 02:18:46,709 that, uh, has got to be recognized 2601 02:18:46,753 --> 02:18:48,929 and we, we deal with it as best we can, 2602 02:18:48,972 --> 02:18:52,106 but it's, it's not something that's going to go away. 2603 02:18:54,326 --> 02:18:59,026 Belief in conspiracies is exciting, 2604 02:18:59,940 --> 02:19:03,160 far more exciting than the truth could be. 2605 02:19:04,074 --> 02:19:07,513 What they want to hear is attacks, 2606 02:19:07,861 --> 02:19:09,863 that's where the excitement is. 2607 02:19:09,906 --> 02:19:11,255 That's what they like. 2608 02:19:11,299 --> 02:19:13,214 That's what feeds their paranoia. 2609 02:19:14,998 --> 02:19:19,655 I am grateful to those of you who have devoted 2610 02:19:19,699 --> 02:19:24,356 so much of the post-report time to defending it. 2611 02:19:24,747 --> 02:19:28,490 Uh, I haven't, and, uh, 2612 02:19:29,317 --> 02:19:31,624 uh, I'm glad you did. 2613 02:19:31,667 --> 02:19:36,672 ["Symphony No. 3, Funeral March" by Beethoven] 201408

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