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- Jordan Peterson.
- Jordan Peterson.
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00:00:27,810 --> 00:00:30,073
- Jordan Peterson.
- Jordan B. Peterson.
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00:00:30,117 --> 00:00:32,075
- Jordan Peterson.
- Welcome back, Mr. Peterson.
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00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:34,512
The Canadian psychology
professor is somebody
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00:00:34,556 --> 00:00:36,601
people love or love to hate.
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00:00:36,645 --> 00:00:38,473
Despite
what you think about him,
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00:00:38,516 --> 00:00:40,779
there is no denying
the professor's impact.
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00:00:40,823 --> 00:00:42,738
He's undeniably
one of the greatest
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intellectual phenomenons
on the planet right now.
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00:00:45,262 --> 00:00:48,265
People were coming up to me and saying, "This book
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- saved my life."
- He's the ultimate father figure.
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I've spent so much time in the dark. It's not easy to find,
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00:00:54,750 --> 00:00:58,493
not so much heroes, but people
that can be so helpful.
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00:00:58,536 --> 00:01:02,236
- Shame, shame, shame.
- So, you're anti-justice.
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Are you a Batman villain?
I watched the professor against political correctness video
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and I was just so disappointed,
I guess.
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His thoughts
aren't quick.
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They're long and drawn out
and they're a story,
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everything he says is a story,
so you have to be there for the whole story
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to find out what
is there at the end.
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"A man
does not live by bread alone."
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Right, and the spiritual bread
that's the story.
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If you're going to have millions of people
who are listening to everything you say,
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I think that you have take some responsibility
to help them understand what you mean.
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So, this is what
I actually look like
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and then this is what people who don't like me think I look like.
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- Which one is real?
- Yeah, that's a good question.
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Well, I would say
they're both real.
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Peterson! Peterson! Peterson!
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Yeah, and he sang
at my mom's funeral.
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That's when he started
to play the piano
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as opposed to playing
the guitar.
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And he did it
and sent it before he left.
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- Answer.
- One to five?
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Yes. Strongly agree is five,
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- strongly disagree is one. Okay.
- Okay.
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- Seldom feel blue?
- That's the kind of question I don't know how to answer--
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Just guess.
Guess and then mom and I will tell you if you're off...
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- Five is strongly agree?
- Yeah.
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- Four.
- Avoid philosophical discussions?
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One.
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Change my mood a lot?
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- He is Gemini.
- I don't know. That's another one that's tough for me.
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- What would you say?
- I'd say one, but that's wrong.
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He changes his mood often.
I'd say yes.
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- Yeah, probably four.
- You know, he can be...
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- Not a five? ...deeply immersed on the telephone,
then he can say,
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- "Where's my wallet?" And--
- Okay, okay. Five.
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And then get out on the street
and complain about the car and--
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Keep my emotions under control?
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- Three.
- Okay.
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00:03:53,668 --> 00:03:56,018
- No way. Come on, really?
- Is that what you think?
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You have no idea
how irritated I actually am.
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- That isn't-- that's not the question.
- One, apparently.
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00:04:02,024 --> 00:04:03,504
Weren't you
yelling at a computer?
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00:04:04,809 --> 00:04:06,768
- Yeah.
- Rarely feel depressed?
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When I'm not depressed,
I don't feel depressed at all,
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but when I'm depressed, I feel depressed.
That's another one I don't know how to answer.
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- Love a good fight?
- You mean an argument?
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Yeah, a conflict.
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You love them more than me.
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They agitate the hell out
of me, but I won't back away
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from one. Three.
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Hard to get to know?
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- Three.
- You went on TV talking about depression.
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- What was the question?
- Well, that's different.
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Not really.
Hard to get to know.
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- Show business.
- Hard to get to know.
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- Know how to captivate people?
- Five.
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- Get deeply immersed in music?
- Five.
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- Think quickly?
- Five.
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Not easily annoyed?
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One. Thanks, Mom.
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Seek conflict?
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Seek it.
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When you're speaking about
existential personality theory,
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it's important to place the individual in a broader context.
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Jung famously claimed
that people didn't have ideas,
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that ideas had people.
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Politics was really something
that had always been at the base
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of what he was worried about.
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Why do people fight wars
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and why are people willing
to sacrifice themselves?
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I've been studying authoritarianism for a very long time.
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It's been my life's work to inoculate
people against ideological possession.
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It's the lesson that I try to teach people in my Maps of Meaning course.
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And then I've been keeping an eye on what's
been going on with political correctness
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since, well since the 1990s
when I was down in--
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I taught at Harvard
for seven years.
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And there was a big resurgence
of political correctness
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in the 1990s,
but it sort of died off.
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But then something changed
about five or six years ago.
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I noticed it,
in the speech codes, and the sexual harassment codes,
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and the idea of rape culture.
My graduate student's comments that they're nervous
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about teaching anything that has to do with gender or biology of gender
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because they're afraid of the potential kickback from students
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or afraid of speaking out
in public about their research
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on political psychology
and personality.
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It's just
an endless array of details
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indicating that
the requirement to speak
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in the politically
correct manner
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is becoming overwhelming.
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It just so happened that
it was the trans pronoun issue
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that brought in
this restrictive legislation
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that had forced speech content,
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which I think
is very bad idea in principle,
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very, very dangerous idea.
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And I've entitled this talk,
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"Professor Against
Political Correctness."
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There are continually things
happening in the universities
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and in the broader political world that make me very nervous.
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It's becoming increasingly
difficult for professors
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and students to even say
what they think.
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And I think that some of the things that I say in my lectures
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now might be sufficient for me
to be brought before
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the Ontario
Human Rights Commission under their amended hate speech laws.
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And that scares me as well.
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And it scares me that I think that because it sounds paranoid
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and there is a first reading
of legislation
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in the Federal House in Canada
about a bill called C-16.
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I'm very proud
that on May the 17th
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we introduced bill C-16,
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an act to amend
the Canadian Human Rights Act
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and the criminal code.
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The bill addresses
a fundamental issue
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of equality and human rights,
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the discrimination
and hate crimes experienced
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by trans
and gender diverse Canadians.
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Definition of
discrimination and harassment.
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Now, these are truly terrifying.
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Discrimination happens
when a person experiences
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negative treatment
or impact intentional or not.
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Intent matters,
this is a painful thing that human beings have learned.
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It's at the base
of our modern legal systems.
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If I accidentally run into you,
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that's way different than
if I run into you on purpose.
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And so, this policy
is designed to reverse that.
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So, this is the scenario I've
been running through my head.
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I can envision
a student or a colleague
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insisting that I call them
using gender neutral pronouns.
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I'm not doing that.
I'm not doing that.
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I don't recognize another
person's right to determine
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what pronouns I use to address
them. I won't do it.
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Now, my decision might be illegal and maybe it's even a decision of hate,
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but I'm not doing it.
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But I'm not doing it.
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I watched the video
and then was in danger
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of vomiting
all over my keyboard.
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I started tweeting about it and I made a number of comments
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basically calling out Peterson
for being transphobic.
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But I just sort of felt that I could speak perhaps to having
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a little bit of lived experience as a non-binary
and a trans person on campus.
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I wanted to try to stick up
for students
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who felt under fire
from Peterson's remarks.
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I wrote to someone in
the administration and asking,
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"Gosh, what are we
going to do about this?"
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And it, sort of,
snowballed from there.
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Why are you against the use
of alternate pronouns?
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I'm against the use of--
of legislation to determine
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what words are that myself and other people are required to utter.
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Bill C-16 is actually
not about cisgender people.
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It's about protections
for transgender people.
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Peterson frames this
as a free speech issue
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just because you can't speak
exactly what you want to say it,
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when you want to say it,
where you want to say it,
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doesn't mean you get
to throw a big tantrum.
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You've accused
him of abusing students
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by not using the pronouns
they want to be addressed by.
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That's how I see it,
absolutely.
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That is tantamount
to abuse in your view?
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Absolutely. Many global
documents, many organiza--
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How about violence?
Is it tantamount to violence?
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- Yes, absolutely.
- How about hate speech?
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- Is it tantamount hate speech?
- Yes. It's hate speech--
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Fine, that's--
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One of the things
that I studied, for example,
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with regards to the way events went during the Holocaust is that
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we went this far. It was like,
"Okay, no problem."
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But then we went this far.
That was okay, no problem.
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It's like, "Oh, it's okay.
It's okay. We can do that.
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We can go that one step
further." It's like--
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The funny thing too is, is if
you draw a line in the sand,
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which is what I did,
all hell breaks loose because,
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"Well, why did you draw
it there? That's arbitrary."
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It's like, "Yeah, there's an
element of arbitrariness to it."
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That's why people won't draw
the line, they don't want
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to take the heat
for the arbitrary element,
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the arbitrary nature
of the act because
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whatever people happen to be directly affected by that arbitrary line,
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they come out and say, "Well,
you're a horrible person."
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"Yeah. Oh, well.
No, but I get your point."
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There's a demonstration
plan for tomorrow.
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They call it
a rally and teach-in,
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so I'm going to have to make this very straightforward and simple.
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I don't disbelieve in the existence of non-binary people.
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Okay? Do you want me
to say that again?
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Obviously,
people who don't fit into
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standard binary categories
of sexual identity,
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however you decide
to construe that
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broadly or narrowly,
obviously those people exist.
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I never said they didn't exist.
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So, if you're going out tomorrow
to this demonstration
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because you want to indicate
your discomfort
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00:13:00,692 --> 00:13:04,044
with my disbelief in the very
existence of non-binary people,
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00:13:04,087 --> 00:13:05,567
you might as well
just stay home.
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00:13:10,746 --> 00:13:15,403
Everyone who is here
who has seen the Peterson video,
207
00:13:15,446 --> 00:13:19,668
I want you to raise your hand
if this is the very first time
208
00:13:19,711 --> 00:13:25,108
that you've ever heard anything
like what he's saying.
209
00:13:27,023 --> 00:13:30,722
We had created what
should have been an historical event.
210
00:13:31,506 --> 00:13:35,815
It may have been the only gathering of that type in Canadian history
211
00:13:35,858 --> 00:13:39,166
of trans people in a public space gathering in a large number
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00:13:39,209 --> 00:13:42,996
to go up to an open microphone and announce publicly their experiences.
213
00:13:43,039 --> 00:13:45,259
I don't think
that's ever happened
214
00:13:45,302 --> 00:13:48,131
and that was a huge deal to us
when we put that on.
215
00:13:48,175 --> 00:13:52,048
We're here today to call out
Jordan B. Peterson.
216
00:13:52,092 --> 00:13:54,790
He feels that he has
the authority to dictate
217
00:13:54,834 --> 00:13:57,662
the gender identities
of his students,
218
00:13:57,706 --> 00:13:59,926
which we are here
to say that he does not.
219
00:14:02,842 --> 00:14:05,540
Using preferred pronouns,
I don't think is a debate.
220
00:14:05,583 --> 00:14:08,064
It's just being respectful.
221
00:14:09,196 --> 00:14:13,417
I attempted to kill myself
three times last year.
222
00:14:13,461 --> 00:14:20,076
The result of the anxiety that comes from
when you decide to begin transitioning.
223
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,732
It leads you to do things,
horrible things.
224
00:14:24,472 --> 00:14:28,955
We'd also told
media not to film trans people
225
00:14:28,998 --> 00:14:32,784
without their consent.
The media was all very responsible with that
226
00:14:32,828 --> 00:14:35,657
and respected our wishes
but Rebel Media wouldn't.
227
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:39,487
They kept shoving their cameras in people's faces.
228
00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:42,055
Actually, I'm talking
to people because I want to know
229
00:14:42,098 --> 00:14:44,405
whether they want a man to be fired.
I want to know about bill C-16,
230
00:14:44,448 --> 00:14:46,494
what they think
about campus freedom.
231
00:14:46,537 --> 00:14:49,366
Everyone here can give their
opinion on whether they think
232
00:14:49,410 --> 00:14:51,281
this is a campus
with free speech.
233
00:14:51,325 --> 00:14:54,937
Anyone of any skin color
or gender can give that opinion.
234
00:14:54,981 --> 00:14:58,375
Well, like the Lauren Southern
thing was basic definition
235
00:14:58,419 --> 00:15:00,377
of trans people
being talked over.
236
00:15:00,421 --> 00:15:03,380
She had just legally changed
her sex marker
237
00:15:03,424 --> 00:15:07,341
as some sort of like anti-trans publicity stunt a few days before.
238
00:15:25,576 --> 00:15:28,928
I, honestly, didn't
expect it to be that easy.
239
00:15:30,712 --> 00:15:34,194
The people who are there
were like raw that day.
240
00:15:34,237 --> 00:15:36,544
You know what I mean?
Everyone who attended that rally
241
00:15:36,587 --> 00:15:38,894
was putting themselves
in a very vulnerable position
242
00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:41,592
and it was really
just like being spat on.
243
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,780
Yeah. Yes.
244
00:15:57,217 --> 00:15:59,828
I think people also
have to start pushing back
245
00:15:59,871 --> 00:16:02,787
and saying when they hear
this constant noise
246
00:16:02,831 --> 00:16:05,007
about what group identity
you belong to,
247
00:16:05,051 --> 00:16:08,402
and to make that the cardinal
element of their identity.
248
00:16:08,445 --> 00:16:09,794
It's appalling.
249
00:16:10,970 --> 00:16:13,189
Okay. Well, it was really good
talking to you guys.
250
00:16:14,103 --> 00:16:17,280
Okay, good. Yeah. Bye.
251
00:16:21,893 --> 00:16:23,417
Now, who was that?
252
00:16:28,683 --> 00:16:31,120
- Recording?
- It's recording.
253
00:16:31,164 --> 00:16:35,081
So, anything I say now,
you can put out in a tweet and ruin my career?
254
00:16:35,124 --> 00:16:38,388
- Exactly.
- All right. I'm going to be mindful of you, Marxists.
255
00:16:38,432 --> 00:16:40,956
I was one of Jordan's students when I was an Undergrad at Harvard.
256
00:16:41,913 --> 00:16:45,569
He can be a pretty intimidating
professor, but he was beloved.
257
00:16:45,613 --> 00:16:49,530
The aspect of people
that's dividing theoretically
258
00:16:49,573 --> 00:16:52,576
is the part that stands on the border
between the unknown and the known
259
00:16:52,620 --> 00:16:55,231
and it moves information
from unexplored territory
260
00:16:55,275 --> 00:16:57,190
into explored territory.
261
00:16:57,233 --> 00:17:00,541
Expanding the door to the domain
of the group. That's--
262
00:17:00,584 --> 00:17:03,892
Anyways. Okay. Who's this?
263
00:17:06,025 --> 00:17:09,680
One of the things I remember is that if any
student had an objection to something,
264
00:17:09,724 --> 00:17:12,509
if it was clear it was
from an ideological angle,
265
00:17:12,553 --> 00:17:16,078
whether Left or Right, he would
just sort of scissor it.
266
00:17:16,122 --> 00:17:19,777
Like if you're going to ask
something disingenuously
267
00:17:19,821 --> 00:17:22,998
that part of what you're asking
is to get information
268
00:17:23,042 --> 00:17:26,393
or make a power play in the phrasing of the question,
that's not going to be tolerated
269
00:17:26,436 --> 00:17:29,004
in the kind of discourse
of a classroom.
270
00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:33,617
For me, ideologies are
the expression in a sense,
271
00:17:33,661 --> 00:17:36,446
the verbal expression
of the internal structures
272
00:17:36,490 --> 00:17:38,405
that regulate our emotions.
273
00:17:38,448 --> 00:17:42,148
Jordan and I have been
in touch sort of increasingly
274
00:17:42,191 --> 00:17:44,106
as our lives have gone on.
275
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:47,849
Actually. I think
that was really worrying me,
276
00:17:47,892 --> 00:17:52,332
I guess I would say because
the last thing I want to do--
277
00:17:52,375 --> 00:17:54,203
well, I don't know
if it's the last thing,
278
00:17:54,247 --> 00:17:56,510
but I don't want to get
into political arguments
279
00:17:56,553 --> 00:18:00,470
and I don't want to get stuck
in a, you know.
280
00:18:00,514 --> 00:18:04,126
One will
always lose, on this topic.
281
00:18:04,170 --> 00:18:07,999
I think you kind of lose every
time you engage in a political argument.
282
00:18:08,043 --> 00:18:10,480
You know the people that are
putting the argument forward
283
00:18:10,524 --> 00:18:14,789
are possessed by one ideology
and when you discuss
284
00:18:14,832 --> 00:18:16,747
it in the ideological terms
and oppose it,
285
00:18:16,791 --> 00:18:18,619
that means
you're immediately possessed
286
00:18:18,662 --> 00:18:20,273
by the opposing ideology.
287
00:18:20,316 --> 00:18:23,145
I don't want to be
the mouthpiece of...
288
00:18:23,189 --> 00:18:26,322
of the opposite to Neo-Marxism.
289
00:18:47,169 --> 00:18:48,257
All right.
290
00:18:51,521 --> 00:18:53,262
I don't know
what's going to happen.
291
00:18:53,306 --> 00:18:55,090
That's all.
292
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:59,616
Could be catastrophic for me.
293
00:19:02,619 --> 00:19:05,405
I don't even know where
I'm supposed to meet people.
294
00:19:12,542 --> 00:19:16,372
- What you had to say was definitely needed, I think.
- Glad to hear it.
295
00:19:16,416 --> 00:19:19,114
- I think there needs to be an open dialogue--
- Of course.
296
00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:26,165
- It's a pleasure to finally meet you.
- Oh, yeah. How are you doing?
297
00:19:26,208 --> 00:19:29,385
I'm very good. I look forward
to hearing you speak.
298
00:19:29,429 --> 00:19:33,302
Your video about your ID switch
there got a lot of attention?
299
00:19:33,346 --> 00:19:37,828
Yeah, about 200,000.
The one covering the protest against you got over 100,000.
300
00:19:37,872 --> 00:19:39,700
- Oh, yeah?
- I don't know if you saw it, but they--
301
00:19:39,743 --> 00:19:41,528
You made quite a splash
with your video,
302
00:19:41,571 --> 00:19:43,399
your YouTube channel.
When did you start it?
303
00:19:43,443 --> 00:19:46,750
Rebel? Ezra Levant started
it about a year ago.
304
00:19:46,794 --> 00:19:51,494
- A year?
- Yeah, I joined full-time a couple of months ago.
305
00:19:51,538 --> 00:19:56,760
It was funny you're talking to white
straight guys and they put their hands...
306
00:19:56,804 --> 00:19:59,633
They're screaming at people,
laughing at people for being white.
307
00:19:59,676 --> 00:20:02,026
- It was very sad.
- Well I'm the token Asian guy, so...
308
00:20:02,070 --> 00:20:05,204
Well, it is pretty
funny being white, you know.
309
00:20:05,247 --> 00:20:09,295
Hello. Good afternoon, UOT.
Dr. Jordan Peterson
310
00:20:09,338 --> 00:20:13,473
will come out and speak
after I do and Lauren Southern--
311
00:20:20,784 --> 00:20:24,440
- Let's not do that.
- We're here for the rally for free speech and we have
312
00:20:24,484 --> 00:20:27,313
some other company...
313
00:20:31,969 --> 00:20:33,971
...Campus culture has been
changing lives everywhere.
314
00:20:34,015 --> 00:20:36,365
Other people thought
that the event was organized
315
00:20:36,409 --> 00:20:38,802
by straight white males
316
00:20:38,846 --> 00:20:40,978
who had bigoted opinions
317
00:20:41,022 --> 00:20:42,937
and just wanted to use
freedom of speech
318
00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:45,505
as a shield for their ignorance.
319
00:20:45,548 --> 00:20:48,334
People on the other side
did not understand.
320
00:20:48,377 --> 00:20:52,381
The people who are disagreeing
with the social justice left.
321
00:20:52,425 --> 00:20:56,211
We feel that, yeah,
there is an issue of political correctness.
322
00:20:56,255 --> 00:21:00,563
Well, it's not because I'm completely ignorant.
323
00:21:00,607 --> 00:21:02,565
It's because I'm trying
to think about those things
324
00:21:02,609 --> 00:21:05,133
and trying to form an opinion
about those things.
325
00:21:05,176 --> 00:21:08,745
Shame, shame, shame.
326
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:14,708
Shame, shame, shame.
327
00:21:14,751 --> 00:21:17,885
Okay.
328
00:21:34,031 --> 00:21:37,165
Okay, so let's try this again.
329
00:21:37,774 --> 00:21:40,473
The reason I'm defending
freedom of speech
330
00:21:40,516 --> 00:21:44,215
is because that's how people with different opinions settled their opinions
331
00:21:44,259 --> 00:21:47,958
in a civil society
and if we lose that--
332
00:21:48,002 --> 00:21:50,047
Whoa.
333
00:21:50,091 --> 00:21:54,225
If we lose that, we'll lose
so much, you can't imagine.
334
00:21:55,139 --> 00:21:58,621
It's as a consequence of free
speech and the ability to speak,
335
00:21:58,665 --> 00:22:00,971
that people can put
their finger on problems,
336
00:22:01,015 --> 00:22:04,323
articulate what those problems
are, solve them
337
00:22:04,366 --> 00:22:08,718
and come to a consensus
and we risk losing that.
338
00:22:09,502 --> 00:22:13,244
Now, the radical Left activists
are trying to turn this
339
00:22:13,288 --> 00:22:15,899
into an argument
about sexual politics,
340
00:22:15,943 --> 00:22:19,773
and it's only nominally
about sexual politics.
341
00:22:19,816 --> 00:22:22,471
It's about language
that's designed to control
342
00:22:22,515 --> 00:22:24,386
our freedom of expression.
343
00:22:24,430 --> 00:22:26,693
Whoa.
344
00:22:26,736 --> 00:22:28,782
Shame on you...
345
00:22:28,825 --> 00:22:33,264
I'm asking
each of you as individuals...
346
00:22:33,308 --> 00:22:36,659
- ...a bigot like you.
- To say clearly and carefully
347
00:22:36,703 --> 00:22:40,271
- what you have to say.
- Peterson.
348
00:22:40,315 --> 00:22:42,752
Let me just express my profound
gratitude for what you're doing.
349
00:22:42,796 --> 00:22:43,971
- Thank you.
- Thank you.
350
00:22:46,277 --> 00:22:48,367
That's okay.
I've got a platform.
351
00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:50,281
YouTube seems
to be doing just fine.
352
00:22:50,325 --> 00:22:52,632
- Yeah.
- It's okay this sort of thing.
353
00:22:52,675 --> 00:22:55,809
There's no violence.
As long as there's no violence,
354
00:22:55,852 --> 00:22:58,594
it's okay. And so,
we'll see how this plays out.
355
00:22:58,638 --> 00:23:01,510
- Recognized by anybody.
- How am I disrespecting you?
356
00:23:01,554 --> 00:23:05,122
By refusing to include language which is already in your vocabulary
357
00:23:05,166 --> 00:23:08,256
into like a sentence
just when addressing somebody.
358
00:23:08,299 --> 00:23:12,478
That's just-- Well, it should be and it will be an act of hate.
359
00:23:12,521 --> 00:23:14,915
- That is ridiculous.
- Yeah, that's for sure.
360
00:23:14,958 --> 00:23:18,397
Like that to me is you're
denying somebody's identity
361
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,442
and that's fundamentally wrong.
362
00:23:20,486 --> 00:23:22,575
Well, you're more than entitled
to your opinion.
363
00:23:22,618 --> 00:23:25,229
I think that the pathway
that you're pursuing to obtain
364
00:23:25,273 --> 00:23:27,449
the rights you want
will kick back hard
365
00:23:27,493 --> 00:23:29,320
and not in the direction
you want it to.
366
00:23:29,364 --> 00:23:31,627
- I don't believe that because--
- Yeah, I know.
367
00:23:31,671 --> 00:23:33,629
- I think you're behind in the progression.
- You might be right.
368
00:23:33,673 --> 00:23:36,110
The progression here is
moving way faster than you are
369
00:23:36,153 --> 00:23:38,068
and for you to be like this far
behind at this stage
370
00:23:38,112 --> 00:23:39,113
is kind of sad.
371
00:23:41,507 --> 00:23:43,378
Sure. Who are you?
372
00:23:43,422 --> 00:23:45,511
I'm Ethan.
I'm a student at UCS.
373
00:23:45,554 --> 00:23:48,035
- How are you, Ethan? How are you doing?
- I'm good. You?
374
00:23:48,078 --> 00:23:50,167
I really respect
what you're doing.
375
00:23:52,518 --> 00:23:53,736
- Thanks.
- No problem.
376
00:23:55,303 --> 00:23:56,435
Let's go upstairs.
377
00:23:59,742 --> 00:24:01,483
- Yeah, I know.
- That's hilarious.
378
00:24:01,527 --> 00:24:03,572
- You think that's pretty funny?
- Yes.
379
00:24:03,616 --> 00:24:07,097
The intense part
was the fight over the--
380
00:24:07,141 --> 00:24:09,012
- Speakers?
- The speakers, yeah.
381
00:24:09,056 --> 00:24:11,754
- There was one guy there...
- Yeah, it shouldn't--
382
00:24:11,798 --> 00:24:14,670
...who was that far
from being violent.
383
00:24:14,714 --> 00:24:17,543
Oh really? On the other side?
On your side?
384
00:24:17,586 --> 00:24:21,242
- Well... on my side.
- Well, on the Right or the Left?
385
00:24:21,285 --> 00:24:24,245
- On the Right--
- You got to be careful there, kiddo.
386
00:24:24,288 --> 00:24:25,855
Okay, sorry.
387
00:24:25,899 --> 00:24:29,206
Peterson.
Peterson. Peterson.
388
00:24:29,250 --> 00:24:31,252
On all their faces.
389
00:24:31,295 --> 00:24:34,385
Don't smile on me, bitch.
What do you want?
390
00:24:34,429 --> 00:24:38,433
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
391
00:24:38,477 --> 00:24:40,391
The Canadian psychology
professor is somebody
392
00:24:40,435 --> 00:24:42,176
people love or love to hate.
393
00:24:49,879 --> 00:24:52,099
I think one of the hottest
topics in the country today,
394
00:24:52,142 --> 00:24:54,841
Professor Peterson,
and it's all because of you.
395
00:25:25,349 --> 00:25:28,527
I 've been doing specifically non- binary activism
396
00:25:28,570 --> 00:25:31,660
for about four years now,
ever since I came out.
397
00:25:33,183 --> 00:25:36,970
That's mostly been
online creating spaces
398
00:25:37,013 --> 00:25:40,451
like resource collection and creating education materials
399
00:25:40,495 --> 00:25:41,931
and making YouTube videos.
400
00:25:44,064 --> 00:25:46,588
My decision
to not compromise my identity
401
00:25:46,632 --> 00:25:51,332
is very much a survival thing
for me because of the level
402
00:25:51,375 --> 00:25:54,901
of depression and mental health,
mental health issues
403
00:25:54,944 --> 00:25:59,601
that were caused by me
trying to exist as female.
404
00:26:04,475 --> 00:26:06,608
We're here at the free speech
counter protest
405
00:26:06,652 --> 00:26:09,132
to our "Please respect
us as human beings protest."
406
00:26:09,176 --> 00:26:10,569
That we put on last week.
407
00:26:12,788 --> 00:26:16,009
The Jordan Peterson thing was
the first protest I'd ever
408
00:26:16,052 --> 00:26:20,666
participated in or participated
in arranging, rather.
409
00:26:22,189 --> 00:26:25,235
You have no idea if I'm your enemy,
you have no idea about me.
410
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:27,586
You won't use my pronoun,
so I'm pretty sure you're my enemy.
411
00:26:27,629 --> 00:26:31,372
I know you think that,
but I don't believe that using your pronouns
412
00:26:31,415 --> 00:26:34,636
is going to do you any good in the long run.
I think it'll do quite the contrary.
413
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,205
What the fuck?
Is that your medical opinion?
414
00:26:38,248 --> 00:26:42,339
You are aware that non-binary people
are valid in the American Psychological
415
00:26:42,383 --> 00:26:43,776
- Association?
- This isn't about the non-binary people.
416
00:26:43,819 --> 00:26:45,560
- Yes, it is.
- No, it's not.
417
00:26:45,604 --> 00:26:47,388
- It's about non-binary pronouns.
- No, it's not.
418
00:26:48,737 --> 00:26:52,872
This was one of the speakers who spoke at the rally
419
00:26:52,915 --> 00:26:56,963
in support of Jordan Peterson that my friends were involved in disrupting.
420
00:27:00,706 --> 00:27:02,708
Do you think people love them?
421
00:27:02,751 --> 00:27:05,319
Do you think they're hugged
and taken care of?
422
00:27:05,362 --> 00:27:08,322
- Do you think people love those people?
- Hallelujah.
423
00:27:08,365 --> 00:27:11,281
Do you think that
they're listened to? No!
424
00:27:11,325 --> 00:27:15,285
So, they believe these crazy inter-sexual cultural Marxist ideas.
425
00:27:16,156 --> 00:27:20,595
You're tattooing your body
and cutting off your genitals.
426
00:27:20,639 --> 00:27:23,903
It shows the kinds of things that were being said at that and the reason
427
00:27:23,946 --> 00:27:27,254
why people thought that it was important to counter demonstrate that.
428
00:27:34,217 --> 00:27:37,481
It's really difficult
to separate the thing
429
00:27:37,525 --> 00:27:40,615
with Jordan Peterson from the Trump election because
430
00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:43,400
when I first got into it,
I thought it was a blip.
431
00:27:43,444 --> 00:27:46,839
I thought it was just like some stupid thing that's happening
432
00:27:46,882 --> 00:27:49,189
and people think that people
are getting overly confident
433
00:27:49,232 --> 00:27:50,930
because Trump's running
for office.
434
00:27:50,973 --> 00:27:54,411
But once he loses,
things will just kind of,
435
00:27:54,455 --> 00:27:58,328
go back to the-- you know,
the way that they were before.
436
00:27:58,372 --> 00:28:00,983
Donald Trump wins
the presidency.
437
00:28:01,027 --> 00:28:03,682
The business tycoon
and TV personality
438
00:28:03,725 --> 00:28:06,423
capping his improbable
political journey
439
00:28:06,467 --> 00:28:09,600
with an astounding
upset victory. Donald J...
440
00:28:09,644 --> 00:28:11,428
So, the rallies happened
in early October
441
00:28:11,472 --> 00:28:13,953
and then Trump was elected
in early November.
442
00:28:13,996 --> 00:28:16,564
And that really just--
443
00:28:16,607 --> 00:28:20,046
if Peterson was the spark
then the Trump election
444
00:28:20,089 --> 00:28:22,222
was like the fire
that really galvanized it.
445
00:28:22,265 --> 00:28:25,268
People who were on Peterson's side, or whatever, were wearing
446
00:28:25,312 --> 00:28:28,619
MAGA hats and like saying all these,
kind of like, Trumpist's slogans.
447
00:28:28,663 --> 00:28:30,665
The groups of people
who were supporting Peterson,
448
00:28:30,709 --> 00:28:33,755
were going to be an ongoing
political identity.
449
00:28:56,386 --> 00:29:00,913
Dear dad,
I don't completely understand the driving force
450
00:29:00,956 --> 00:29:02,958
behind
what I have been working on.
451
00:29:04,481 --> 00:29:07,963
I'd been obsessed with the idea of war for three or four years,
452
00:29:08,007 --> 00:29:10,792
often dreaming
extremely violent dreams
453
00:29:10,836 --> 00:29:13,664
centered around
the theme of destruction.
454
00:29:13,708 --> 00:29:17,364
I believe now that my concern
with death on a mass scale
455
00:29:17,407 --> 00:29:19,888
was intimately tied
into my personal life.
456
00:29:22,804 --> 00:29:25,676
Carl Jung has suggested
that all personal problems
457
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,678
are relevant to society
458
00:29:27,722 --> 00:29:30,290
and that any sufficiently
profound solution
459
00:29:30,333 --> 00:29:32,945
to a personal problem
may, if communicated,
460
00:29:32,988 --> 00:29:35,730
reduce the likelihood
of that problem existing
461
00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:38,341
in anyone else's experience
in the future.
462
00:29:38,951 --> 00:29:42,432
I had a notion that confronting what terrified me,
463
00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:45,348
what turned my dreams
against me could help me
464
00:29:45,392 --> 00:29:47,350
withstand that terrible thing.
465
00:29:48,482 --> 00:29:50,701
This idea
allowed me to believe
466
00:29:50,745 --> 00:29:53,400
that I could find
what I most wanted
467
00:29:53,443 --> 00:29:56,707
if I was willing to follow
wherever it led me.
468
00:29:56,751 --> 00:29:59,319
Knowing somehow
that once started,
469
00:29:59,362 --> 00:30:01,234
an aborted attempt
would destroy,
470
00:30:01,277 --> 00:30:03,584
at least my self-respect,
471
00:30:03,627 --> 00:30:05,542
at most my sanity.
472
00:30:15,814 --> 00:30:19,556
I knew that he had been bothered by bad dreams
473
00:30:21,210 --> 00:30:24,823
and was very conscientious about
what was going on in the world
474
00:30:25,867 --> 00:30:28,217
and for a while thought
he could solve it with
475
00:30:29,044 --> 00:30:31,612
political action,
and that disappeared.
476
00:30:32,743 --> 00:30:36,835
Then he seemed to kind of take
a route that led him into,
477
00:30:37,531 --> 00:30:39,489
you know, why were there wars?
478
00:30:39,533 --> 00:30:44,103
Why was man so damn miserable
to each other?
479
00:30:49,412 --> 00:30:51,458
My experience
with students has been
480
00:30:51,501 --> 00:30:53,590
that none of them know
anything about what happened
481
00:30:53,634 --> 00:30:55,984
as a consequence
of the repression
482
00:30:56,028 --> 00:30:59,074
of the radical Left
in the 20th century.
483
00:30:59,118 --> 00:31:01,555
The reason that I believe
that this is important
484
00:31:01,598 --> 00:31:05,037
in a personality class
is because it's necessary
485
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,909
to analyze the relationship
between
486
00:31:07,953 --> 00:31:12,392
the psychological integrity of
the individuals within a society
487
00:31:12,435 --> 00:31:15,917
and the propensity
of that society to engage
488
00:31:15,961 --> 00:31:20,269
- in say, acts of mass atrocity.
- The Joe Rogan Experience.
489
00:31:20,313 --> 00:31:21,967
I have this class
called Maps of Meaning,
490
00:31:22,010 --> 00:31:24,360
which concentrates
on atrocity basically,
491
00:31:24,404 --> 00:31:28,582
on Soviet atrocity
and Nazi atrocity mostly.
492
00:31:28,625 --> 00:31:31,802
And what I try to do in the class is to teach my students
493
00:31:31,846 --> 00:31:34,588
that had they been in Nazi
Germany in the 1930s,
494
00:31:34,631 --> 00:31:37,721
they would have been Nazis
and had they been offered
495
00:31:37,765 --> 00:31:40,724
the opportunity to be
an Auschwitz camp guard,
496
00:31:40,768 --> 00:31:42,683
then maybe they
would have leapt at it.
497
00:31:42,726 --> 00:31:46,905
Maybe they would've been
in the more sadistic proportion
498
00:31:46,948 --> 00:31:49,255
of the Auschwitz
camp guard population.
499
00:31:49,298 --> 00:31:51,561
You think that makes
you feel safe?
500
00:31:51,605 --> 00:31:53,955
It doesn't make you feel
safe to know that Nazis
501
00:31:53,999 --> 00:31:56,479
were humans and you happen
to be one of them.
502
00:32:08,970 --> 00:32:10,972
I guess we didn't
talk about this one.
503
00:32:12,843 --> 00:32:16,325
That's not a copy,
that's an original.
504
00:32:16,369 --> 00:32:20,199
And that's-- there's a bit of
the statue of David in this one,
505
00:32:20,242 --> 00:32:24,681
I think because the hands
are quite exaggerated in size,
506
00:32:24,725 --> 00:32:28,207
you know, and that at least
in principle, gives the figure
507
00:32:28,250 --> 00:32:31,558
more power because
hands are so powerful.
508
00:32:31,601 --> 00:32:34,822
I mean, obviously he's about--
on a podium,
509
00:32:34,865 --> 00:32:37,390
he's about the same size
as me in representation,
510
00:32:37,433 --> 00:32:40,175
but his hands are at least
fifty percent bigger
511
00:32:40,219 --> 00:32:42,525
than they would be in real life.
512
00:32:42,569 --> 00:32:45,354
So, it's kind
of an interesting technique.
513
00:32:46,138 --> 00:32:50,229
So, people ask me,
sometimes people are shocked
514
00:32:50,272 --> 00:32:53,710
when they come into the house
because I've got
515
00:32:53,754 --> 00:32:56,104
paintings of Lenin.
It's not like, I don't know,
516
00:32:56,148 --> 00:33:00,239
he was an absolutely
murderous tyrant, but...
517
00:33:05,679 --> 00:33:07,420
I want to understand it.
518
00:33:07,463 --> 00:33:09,335
I think I scared my wife
half to death
519
00:33:09,378 --> 00:33:12,338
when I was buying them
though because, you know...
520
00:33:12,381 --> 00:33:14,035
you have to be pretty...
521
00:33:15,689 --> 00:33:18,909
not easily worried to not be
concerned if your husband
522
00:33:18,953 --> 00:33:21,129
goes and buys
like five hundred paintings.
523
00:33:21,173 --> 00:33:24,524
But she really likes art, so
it wasn't that big a struggle.
524
00:33:24,567 --> 00:33:30,008
So... we can go and look
in the living room.
525
00:33:33,620 --> 00:33:35,013
There is good old Karl.
526
00:33:35,926 --> 00:33:39,843
My daughter...
for Christmas one year
527
00:33:39,887 --> 00:33:44,892
she found like a plush doll
that was Karl Marx
528
00:33:44,935 --> 00:33:48,765
at some intellectual
kid's toy store
529
00:33:48,809 --> 00:33:52,639
and he was on sale for 50 % off.
So, she bought me that for Christmas,
530
00:33:52,682 --> 00:33:56,251
which I thought was real funny
because it's one thing to buy
531
00:33:56,295 --> 00:33:59,689
Soviet era artifacts
online for nothing
532
00:33:59,733 --> 00:34:03,128
in this capitalist market,
which I thought was extremely hilarious.
533
00:34:03,171 --> 00:34:08,002
But to buy a 50 % off Karl Marx doll,
that was just exactly perfect.
534
00:34:08,046 --> 00:34:09,177
So...
535
00:34:32,026 --> 00:34:35,551
- There's a message from the event organizers.
- Yeah.
536
00:34:35,595 --> 00:34:37,684
Says, "We're dealing
with a crisis at the moment
537
00:34:37,727 --> 00:34:39,773
regarding the risk
management department,
538
00:34:39,816 --> 00:34:42,906
possibly pulling
our approval to run the event.
539
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:45,083
I'm trying very hard to make
sure this doesn't happen,
540
00:34:45,126 --> 00:34:48,086
but we'll need to discuss with
Dr. Peterson how we can proceed
541
00:34:48,129 --> 00:34:51,089
- if this occurs for ten minutes."
- I'll fucking go anyways.
542
00:34:51,132 --> 00:34:52,873
He's probably
going to call you--
543
00:34:52,916 --> 00:34:55,571
- I'm going to call him.
- Okay.
544
00:34:55,615 --> 00:34:58,748
- Hello?
- Hi, there. It's Dr. Peterson calling.
545
00:34:59,967 --> 00:35:03,013
Yeah and who are-- who is
the risk management office?
546
00:35:05,755 --> 00:35:07,279
Well,
what needs to be done here--
547
00:35:07,975 --> 00:35:10,282
I need the names
and phone numbers of the people
548
00:35:10,325 --> 00:35:11,935
who are making this decision.
549
00:35:11,979 --> 00:35:13,459
- Yup.
- All right.
550
00:35:13,502 --> 00:35:17,245
Bye, bye. Scum rats.
551
00:35:18,507 --> 00:35:21,815
The risk management office is thinking about pulling their permission.
552
00:35:21,858 --> 00:35:24,426
- Yeah.
- If they go ahead with it, then they cancel them
553
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:27,125
- as a club for the next year.
- You're kidding.
554
00:35:27,168 --> 00:35:29,910
- No.
- That's threatening.
555
00:35:29,953 --> 00:35:32,086
- That's a--
- That's called blackmail.
556
00:35:32,130 --> 00:35:33,870
Blackmail, that's it. Yeah.
557
00:35:36,264 --> 00:35:38,266
- That made me mad.
- Yeah, I see that.
558
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:43,141
Yeah... Shaken again. Oh, well.
559
00:35:52,715 --> 00:35:54,195
Did you want
to drink a juice?
560
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,589
Yeah. Thanks.
561
00:35:58,330 --> 00:36:01,289
- Some tea would be nice.
- You're getting juice.
562
00:36:01,333 --> 00:36:03,596
Okay.
563
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:07,948
Think it's safe to wear a tie?
564
00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:11,299
- Why, you think they'll strangle you with it?
- Strangle me with it?
565
00:36:11,343 --> 00:36:13,562
Yeah, sure.
566
00:36:13,606 --> 00:36:18,219
I don't-- I don't see it
being anything really.
567
00:36:18,263 --> 00:36:20,308
- Just a lot of--
- You think it's a lot of noise?
568
00:36:20,352 --> 00:36:22,397
- A lot of fluff. Yeah.
- Yeah, probably.
569
00:36:26,749 --> 00:36:29,578
All right.
Listen up. Listen, listen.
570
00:36:29,622 --> 00:36:33,191
Security services is in this building.
We've been working with them for a while.
571
00:36:33,234 --> 00:36:36,759
We have officers outside. So, please, everyone,
if we could be respectful--
572
00:36:36,803 --> 00:36:40,894
Transphobic piece of shit.
Transphobic piece of shit.
573
00:36:40,937 --> 00:36:43,766
Transphobic piece of shit.
Transphobic piece of shit.
574
00:36:43,810 --> 00:36:47,596
This is where we draw the line.
This is where we draw the line.
575
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,426
This is where we draw the line.
This is where we draw the line.
576
00:36:51,470 --> 00:36:54,777
This is where we draw the line.
This is where we draw the line.
577
00:36:54,821 --> 00:36:59,129
Let him speak.
Let him speak. Let him speak.
578
00:36:59,173 --> 00:37:02,829
Let him speak. Let him speak.
Let him speak.
579
00:37:02,872 --> 00:37:06,485
So, I've received--
580
00:37:06,528 --> 00:37:09,705
Listen, you can honk that,
but if you're definitely with it,
581
00:37:09,749 --> 00:37:11,925
- I will take it away from you, you understand?
- What?
582
00:37:11,968 --> 00:37:13,970
Do you want me to take that?
Not kidding.
583
00:37:14,014 --> 00:37:16,103
Freedom of speech,
it applies to air horns too.
584
00:37:16,146 --> 00:37:18,540
- No, it doesn't apply definitely.
- Oh, yes, it does.
585
00:37:18,584 --> 00:37:21,500
- Not kidding. I will take it.
- Yours words hurt my ears.
586
00:37:21,543 --> 00:37:24,285
My snowflake ears
are hurt by your hard words.
587
00:37:26,331 --> 00:37:30,857
Shut down Peterson.
Shut down Peterson.
588
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:36,515
Shut down Peterson.
Shut down Peterson.
589
00:37:36,558 --> 00:37:39,909
Shut down Peterson.
Shut down Peterson.
590
00:37:42,303 --> 00:37:45,480
Okay. Well,
thanks guys for tuning in
591
00:37:45,524 --> 00:37:47,221
and again for offering support
592
00:37:47,265 --> 00:37:48,918
for the continued operation
593
00:37:48,962 --> 00:37:50,268
of my YouTube channel.
594
00:37:52,705 --> 00:37:55,098
We're in a chaotic time
and you know I've gotten letters
595
00:37:55,142 --> 00:37:56,839
from people all over
the world who tell me
596
00:37:56,883 --> 00:37:59,102
how they can't
say what they think.
597
00:38:01,366 --> 00:38:02,802
Jordan Peterson.
598
00:38:05,805 --> 00:38:10,331
Jordan Peterson, the unprecedented international,
599
00:38:10,375 --> 00:38:12,246
media phenomenal.
600
00:38:13,552 --> 00:38:17,338
Is any of this,
all the pressure and the scandal
601
00:38:17,382 --> 00:38:19,949
every three weeks,
is it weigh on you?
602
00:38:19,993 --> 00:38:23,475
Yeah.
It's like simultaneously the worst possible thing
603
00:38:23,518 --> 00:38:25,433
and the best possible thing
that could happen.
604
00:38:25,477 --> 00:38:28,349
Well, financially
it's been a boom, right?
605
00:38:28,393 --> 00:38:31,265
I shouldn't say this,
but I'm going to because it's just so God damn funny,
606
00:38:31,309 --> 00:38:34,964
I can't help but say it.
I figured out how to monetize social justice warriors.
607
00:38:37,837 --> 00:38:41,449
This is Sam Harris. And today,
I am speaking with a guest
608
00:38:41,493 --> 00:38:45,148
who has become quite famous
online for standing
609
00:38:45,192 --> 00:38:47,934
in opposition to changes
to the human rights code
610
00:38:47,977 --> 00:38:49,239
in Ontario, Canada.
611
00:38:49,283 --> 00:38:50,850
And he's actually
612
00:38:50,893 --> 00:38:52,939
the most requested guest
613
00:38:52,982 --> 00:38:55,855
- I have had at this point.
- Head northwest.
614
00:38:56,551 --> 00:38:59,902
Hi, all.
Are you coming to the talk?
615
00:38:59,946 --> 00:39:02,688
- What time is it?
- Six thirty.
616
00:39:02,731 --> 00:39:04,211
Six thirty? I'll be there.
617
00:39:04,254 --> 00:39:05,560
Looking forward to it.
618
00:39:06,909 --> 00:39:09,999
- Jeez, I'm a name brand guy.
- Are you?
619
00:39:10,043 --> 00:39:12,524
Yeah, it's pretty fucking weird.
620
00:39:17,964 --> 00:39:21,924
Oh, you're fast. Eighteen-ten.
621
00:39:26,276 --> 00:39:27,365
Eleven.
622
00:39:32,761 --> 00:39:35,373
The public response has been overwhelmingly positive,
623
00:39:35,416 --> 00:39:38,071
so I think that's given him
like steam. You know,
624
00:39:38,114 --> 00:39:41,683
it's-- it's made it easier
for him to just keep at it.
625
00:39:41,727 --> 00:39:44,338
And I was really
stressed at the beginning.
626
00:39:44,382 --> 00:39:46,601
That was a big decision
for him to speak out.
627
00:39:46,645 --> 00:39:49,865
I would say that though
a lot of the credit
628
00:39:49,909 --> 00:39:53,826
goes to Mikhaila because Mikhaila helped him with his diet.
629
00:39:54,566 --> 00:39:56,698
This as we shall discover
630
00:39:57,569 --> 00:40:00,441
is kind of the family curse in the Peterson family,
isn't it?
631
00:40:00,485 --> 00:40:02,574
You have had
depression yourself.
632
00:40:02,617 --> 00:40:04,837
It's one of the family curses.
633
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,448
You've been dealing
with depression yourself for...
634
00:40:07,492 --> 00:40:09,494
much of your life, right?
Since, when did you?
635
00:40:09,537 --> 00:40:12,192
That's-- that's hard
to say. I mean...
636
00:40:12,235 --> 00:40:14,412
it might've been
for my whole life,
637
00:40:14,455 --> 00:40:16,152
like as far back
as I can remember.
638
00:40:16,196 --> 00:40:17,763
I know that when I was a child,
639
00:40:17,806 --> 00:40:20,418
I had a very low threshold
for tears.
640
00:40:22,332 --> 00:40:25,118
Last September I went
on an elimination diet
641
00:40:25,161 --> 00:40:29,470
and then just out of the blue,
like two months into the diet,
642
00:40:29,514 --> 00:40:33,213
my depression went away.
And I wasn't expecting that to happen
643
00:40:33,256 --> 00:40:36,216
because I thought,
you know, chemical imbalance
644
00:40:36,259 --> 00:40:39,306
is what doctors tell you.
I just thought that I was stuck with it forever.
645
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:42,440
I made a list of all the foods
I knew didn't cause depression
646
00:40:42,483 --> 00:40:45,312
and I told dad
that he had to do it.
647
00:40:45,355 --> 00:40:48,707
He was like, "Well,
that doesn't sound realistic,
648
00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:51,318
but I'll give it a try
because it worked for you."
649
00:40:51,361 --> 00:40:55,627
I used to get up in the morning.
I get up at 5:30, 6:30, 7:00,
650
00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:59,892
sometime like that. I'd do
some yoga, I'd have some tea,
651
00:40:59,935 --> 00:41:02,547
I'd read a book, and make
some breakfast. I'd call Jordan.
652
00:41:04,505 --> 00:41:07,595
Then I'd call Jordan
and he couldn't get up.
653
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:12,121
It was hard and now,
like I wake up, really early
654
00:41:12,165 --> 00:41:15,864
and I sneak out of the room
and I sneak upstairs
655
00:41:15,908 --> 00:41:18,998
and I'm being really quiet
and then I hear, "Tammy."
656
00:41:19,041 --> 00:41:21,174
I say, "Yeah."
"What time is it?"
657
00:41:21,217 --> 00:41:23,306
"It's quarter to 6:00."
658
00:41:23,350 --> 00:41:26,658
"Oh, are you doing yoga?"
"Yeah."
659
00:41:26,701 --> 00:41:28,137
"Okay. I'll be right up."
660
00:41:28,181 --> 00:41:31,271
That never happened.
661
00:41:31,314 --> 00:41:33,578
In my 28 years of being married,
662
00:41:33,621 --> 00:41:36,319
that's never happened.
663
00:41:36,363 --> 00:41:41,629
- It's been a remarkable transformation.
- Yeah, for sure.
664
00:41:41,673 --> 00:41:43,588
He used to talk
like a revolutionary,
665
00:41:43,631 --> 00:41:45,546
but now he acts
like one.
666
00:41:45,590 --> 00:41:46,504
Yeah.
667
00:42:02,171 --> 00:42:05,392
So, I thought to bring
full closure to the class.
668
00:42:05,435 --> 00:42:09,657
I was trying to solve
this terrible puzzle
669
00:42:09,701 --> 00:42:13,095
about how it was that human
beings got themselves in such
670
00:42:13,139 --> 00:42:14,923
a tangle
about what they believed,
671
00:42:14,967 --> 00:42:17,099
such a tangle
that we were pointing
672
00:42:17,143 --> 00:42:19,841
the ultimate weapons
of destruction at one another.
673
00:42:19,885 --> 00:42:22,409
And it seemed to me
that the proper solution to that
674
00:42:22,452 --> 00:42:23,845
was to live properly
675
00:42:25,543 --> 00:42:28,110
as an individual because you're
more powerful than you think.
676
00:42:28,807 --> 00:42:30,678
Way more powerful
than you think.
677
00:42:30,722 --> 00:42:33,899
God only knows what
you are in the final analysis.
678
00:42:33,942 --> 00:42:36,249
It's like how far could you take
that if you stopped wasting
679
00:42:36,292 --> 00:42:38,773
time and if you stopped lying
and if you oriented yourself
680
00:42:38,817 --> 00:42:41,950
to the highest possible good
that you could conceive of
681
00:42:41,994 --> 00:42:45,084
and you committed to that.
How much good could you do?
682
00:42:49,784 --> 00:42:52,700
There's so much more than
just like intellectual ideas.
683
00:42:52,744 --> 00:42:56,748
This is why also
on your Joe Rogan podcast,
684
00:42:56,791 --> 00:42:59,141
why it was like, "Oh everything
is going to be online
685
00:42:59,185 --> 00:43:01,404
and that's great."It's like,
"No, that's nice.
686
00:43:01,448 --> 00:43:03,885
That's a good thought.
But we need people,
687
00:43:03,929 --> 00:43:06,322
we need like embodied people
in front of us
688
00:43:06,366 --> 00:43:08,847
like this or like the person."
So--
689
00:43:08,890 --> 00:43:11,066
That's interesting.
That gives me something to think about too
690
00:43:11,110 --> 00:43:14,417
because I'm trying to figure out
how many talks I should go to
691
00:43:14,461 --> 00:43:16,332
and I keep it there.
692
00:43:16,376 --> 00:43:19,640
People need to see
and to like shake your hand
693
00:43:19,684 --> 00:43:22,425
and to like-- or just like
people need to be around people.
694
00:43:23,644 --> 00:43:24,993
- Okay. I get it.
- We're not vessels.
695
00:43:25,037 --> 00:43:27,039
Yeah, I get it.
696
00:43:27,082 --> 00:43:31,391
Yeah. Thank you for,
keep on, keeping on.
697
00:43:31,434 --> 00:43:33,001
Oh, yeah.
698
00:43:43,969 --> 00:43:47,712
University of Toronto Professor Jordan
Peterson has become a true phenomenon.
699
00:43:47,755 --> 00:43:49,757
That's not an overstatement.
His book,
700
00:43:49,801 --> 00:43:51,803
An Antidote to Chaos
701
00:43:51,846 --> 00:43:53,587
may just be
the biggest bestseller
702
00:43:53,631 --> 00:43:55,023
ever written
by a Canadian author.
703
00:43:58,374 --> 00:44:00,725
Yeah. Welcome, guys.
Now, the book is just blowing up.
704
00:44:00,768 --> 00:44:03,815
Everything that this man
is doing is just absolutely
705
00:44:03,858 --> 00:44:10,038
exploding and you're in the right kind of revolution.
I really believe that.
706
00:44:10,082 --> 00:44:12,737
You guys are in another
bloody revolution.
707
00:44:15,870 --> 00:44:18,873
Yeah, you're
in on the idea revolution.
708
00:44:18,917 --> 00:44:22,529
Rule seven is to do what's meaningful and not what is expedient
709
00:44:22,572 --> 00:44:24,879
and that's
a lovely thing to know.
710
00:44:24,923 --> 00:44:26,968
It's allied tightly
with rule eight.
711
00:44:27,012 --> 00:44:28,753
The two go together
712
00:44:28,796 --> 00:44:31,190
because you can't really
do one without the other.
713
00:44:31,233 --> 00:44:33,845
Rule eight is to tell the truth
or at least don't lie.
714
00:44:33,888 --> 00:44:36,151
One of the things that I think
I figured out is that
715
00:44:36,195 --> 00:44:39,111
if you're going to follow
the instinct for meaning,
716
00:44:39,154 --> 00:44:42,244
and I truly believe that there
is an instinct for meaning,
717
00:44:42,288 --> 00:44:44,725
and not only that there
is an instinct for meaning,
718
00:44:44,769 --> 00:44:47,728
but that it's the most real
thing that there is.
719
00:44:56,781 --> 00:44:58,870
I got a text from
him and then he was like,
720
00:44:58,913 --> 00:45:00,610
"Hey, Jordan Peterson's coming
to talk.
721
00:45:00,654 --> 00:45:02,525
You want to go see him?"
I was like,
722
00:45:02,569 --> 00:45:04,614
"Yeah, let's go do that."
723
00:45:04,658 --> 00:45:06,355
And then I don't know,
it kind of just fit in
724
00:45:06,399 --> 00:45:08,793
because my birthday
was coming up shortly.
725
00:45:08,836 --> 00:45:10,925
It's easy to go down
the path of just,
726
00:45:10,969 --> 00:45:13,493
I'm good enough, I don't need
to improve from here.
727
00:45:13,536 --> 00:45:17,802
And I think hearing
him just saying
728
00:45:17,845 --> 00:45:21,631
that you owe it to yourself.
You owe it to people in your community.
729
00:45:21,675 --> 00:45:24,852
That you do need
to clean up your room,
730
00:45:24,896 --> 00:45:28,508
get your stuff together and make your community a better places.
731
00:45:28,551 --> 00:45:32,294
It's an important thing
to be said in a time
732
00:45:32,338 --> 00:45:34,340
where I don't think
it's said nearly as much.
733
00:45:34,383 --> 00:45:35,776
Up until I had seen him,
734
00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:37,691
I was sort of drifting around,
735
00:45:37,735 --> 00:45:40,128
I would say. I was spending
a lot of time
736
00:45:40,172 --> 00:45:42,870
just doing things
that are in consequential
737
00:45:42,914 --> 00:45:45,786
and a bit unproductive.
After following him and really learning
738
00:45:45,830 --> 00:45:49,572
about how to act in the world is what I would say he taught me to do
739
00:45:49,616 --> 00:45:53,402
and I just became a lot more aware of
all of the things that I needed to change.
740
00:45:56,188 --> 00:45:59,713
Here's the book.
I've reread it multiple times
741
00:45:59,757 --> 00:46:02,281
and reread specific passages
of it, multiple times
742
00:46:02,324 --> 00:46:06,807
because this is sort of an
iteration of his entire method.
743
00:46:06,851 --> 00:46:09,636
After you follow him this much,
he sort of becomes like a legendary figure
744
00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:13,422
in your mind while also
retaining an incredibly power.
745
00:46:13,466 --> 00:46:15,816
- Maybe just me, I just speak only for myself.
- Yeah, I think.
746
00:46:15,860 --> 00:46:18,079
I mean legendary, yeah.
747
00:46:18,123 --> 00:46:20,952
I maybe going too far.
748
00:46:20,995 --> 00:46:23,955
Do I do that guys? I can't
really judge it by myself.
749
00:46:23,998 --> 00:46:26,261
It's understandable if you
hold a high opinion of someone
750
00:46:26,305 --> 00:46:29,047
and then you don't really--
Like you can't really talk about
751
00:46:29,090 --> 00:46:32,311
a lot of this stuff at school especially.
We're at an art school.
752
00:46:32,354 --> 00:46:35,793
You can't talk about
a lot of this stuff. So...
753
00:46:35,836 --> 00:46:38,230
when you finally talk about someone you have a high opinion of,
754
00:46:38,273 --> 00:46:41,450
you can go like further
than you actually feel.
755
00:46:41,494 --> 00:46:46,412
Yeah, and I agree. I have
been doing that a little bit,
756
00:46:46,455 --> 00:46:49,502
but I don't think I'm going that far.
I mean, he's had a huge effect
757
00:46:49,545 --> 00:46:51,460
and I really don't want
to understate that.
758
00:46:54,072 --> 00:46:59,773
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
One question and that's it.
759
00:46:59,817 --> 00:47:01,906
Ladies and gentlemen,
Dr. Jordan Peterson.
760
00:47:08,956 --> 00:47:12,264
- Hi, Matthew.
- It's such an honor. I got to thank you so much.
761
00:47:12,307 --> 00:47:14,701
You've helped me improve
my relationship with my father.
762
00:47:14,744 --> 00:47:18,531
You've helped me rekindle
my faith in religion.
763
00:47:18,574 --> 00:47:22,578
And one of the best things
is you have given me the courage
764
00:47:22,622 --> 00:47:25,973
to stand up for my conservative and libertarian beliefs in the classroom.
765
00:47:26,017 --> 00:47:29,324
- How's that working out?
- Oh, the history teacher's mad.
766
00:47:29,368 --> 00:47:31,457
Yeah?
767
00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:35,896
But we've got
a few kids in our class
768
00:47:35,940 --> 00:47:38,638
keeping the Neo-Marxist
history teacher in check.
769
00:47:40,596 --> 00:47:43,730
There's just a few students
there. They're all watching him,
770
00:47:43,773 --> 00:47:47,690
making sure he doesn't like
say anything out of line.
771
00:47:47,734 --> 00:47:50,128
- It's quite funny.
- It's hilarious.
772
00:47:50,171 --> 00:47:53,305
- We all watch you. We all watch Ben Shapiro.
- God, he must just hate me.
773
00:47:53,348 --> 00:47:56,699
- That's great. Let's get a picture.
- It's really good to meet you.
774
00:47:56,743 --> 00:47:58,179
- You're getting sharp?
- Yeah.
775
00:47:58,223 --> 00:47:59,746
Good.
776
00:47:59,789 --> 00:48:01,704
Say "Hi."
To your friends for me.
777
00:48:01,748 --> 00:48:05,360
Tell them to keep it up
and to be gentle. All right.
778
00:48:07,145 --> 00:48:08,668
- Hello. Hi.
- What's your name?
779
00:48:08,711 --> 00:48:10,235
- Connor.
- Hi, Connor.
780
00:48:10,278 --> 00:48:11,889
- Wow.
- How are you doing?
781
00:48:11,932 --> 00:48:14,456
Did you enjoy the talk?
782
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:17,459
- Yeah, definitely.
- Good. What are you doing here?
783
00:48:17,503 --> 00:48:19,113
I came here to see you.
784
00:48:19,157 --> 00:48:20,985
Have you been
watching videos?
785
00:48:21,028 --> 00:48:23,944
Yeah, since 2016.
786
00:48:24,727 --> 00:48:26,947
Just you are a lot taller
than I expected.
787
00:48:26,991 --> 00:48:29,515
I'm not even
standing up straight.
788
00:48:29,558 --> 00:48:31,865
Shoulders back.
789
00:48:31,909 --> 00:48:35,434
Right. All right. Okay.
Good to meet you, man.
790
00:48:35,477 --> 00:48:38,089
- I'm glad you came.
- One, two, three.
791
00:48:39,177 --> 00:48:41,396
Yeah. This is so fantastic.
792
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,877
When
you're ready. One, two, three.
793
00:48:45,139 --> 00:48:47,968
My name's Anthony.
I just want to say thanks for everything.
794
00:48:48,012 --> 00:48:49,883
- No problem, man.
- You've done so much for me
795
00:48:49,927 --> 00:48:51,406
and I really,
really appreciate it.
796
00:48:51,450 --> 00:48:53,017
Great, man.
I'm thrilled to hear it.
797
00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:54,322
- Thank you.
- You bet.
798
00:48:54,366 --> 00:48:56,194
Just meeting him just--
799
00:48:56,237 --> 00:48:58,587
a lot of emotions came over me
800
00:48:58,631 --> 00:49:01,460
cause I've spent
so much time in the dark
801
00:49:01,503 --> 00:49:03,549
and in bad places mentally
that--
802
00:49:03,592 --> 00:49:08,771
that's it's really not easy
to find-- not so much heroes,
803
00:49:08,815 --> 00:49:11,905
but people that can be so
helpful for you in your life.
804
00:49:11,949 --> 00:49:13,602
- Thank you.
- It's a pleasure to meet you.
805
00:49:13,646 --> 00:49:16,779
- See you.
- Hi, mate. How are you?
806
00:49:20,305 --> 00:49:23,177
I was at-- after
my talk, it's overwhelming.
807
00:49:28,835 --> 00:49:31,359
I don't usually think about
these things, but I was--
808
00:49:31,403 --> 00:49:34,275
it after my talk last night
and so all these people line up
809
00:49:34,319 --> 00:49:37,235
and you know, they have
their 15 seconds with me.
810
00:49:37,278 --> 00:49:39,454
They're kind of tentative.
They're excited and attentive
811
00:49:39,498 --> 00:49:42,109
when they come up to talk to me
and then they have 15 seconds
812
00:49:42,153 --> 00:49:44,459
of time to tell me something.
I'm really listening to them
813
00:49:44,503 --> 00:49:47,462
and they're hesitant
about whether or not to share
814
00:49:47,506 --> 00:49:49,551
the good news about
their life, you know.
815
00:49:49,595 --> 00:49:53,773
And I think it's often
because when people share
816
00:49:53,816 --> 00:49:59,344
good news about their life,
people don't necessarily respond positively.
817
00:49:59,387 --> 00:50:03,870
They don't get encouragement and people need so little encouragement.
818
00:50:03,913 --> 00:50:05,611
- Yeah.
- It's just unbelievable.
819
00:50:09,658 --> 00:50:13,140
The truth is something that
burns, it burns off deadwood
820
00:50:13,184 --> 00:50:15,751
and people don't like having
their dead wood burned off.
821
00:50:15,795 --> 00:50:17,144
Keep talking, bucko.
822
00:50:18,145 --> 00:50:19,799
Sort yourself out.
823
00:50:22,454 --> 00:50:26,588
The more responsibility
you take on, the more meaning your life has.
824
00:50:26,632 --> 00:50:30,549
I've been telling people online
in various ways,
825
00:50:30,592 --> 00:50:34,814
in the lectures that they should start fixing
up the world by cleaning up their room.
826
00:50:36,598 --> 00:50:39,297
Imagine you're dealing
with someone who's hoarding.
827
00:50:39,340 --> 00:50:41,429
There's like ten thousand things in their house.
828
00:50:41,473 --> 00:50:43,997
There's maybe a hundred boxes
and you open up a box
829
00:50:44,041 --> 00:50:47,000
and in the box there's some
pens, and some old passports,
830
00:50:47,044 --> 00:50:50,482
and some checks, and their
collection of silver dollars,
831
00:50:50,525 --> 00:50:52,788
and there's boxes,
and boxes, and boxes.
832
00:50:52,832 --> 00:50:55,052
It's absolute chaos in there.
833
00:50:55,095 --> 00:50:57,402
Absolute chaos,
not ordered, chaos.
834
00:50:58,533 --> 00:51:01,928
And then you think,
"Is that their houses or is that their being?
835
00:51:01,971 --> 00:51:05,627
Is that their mind?"
And the answer is there's no difference.
836
00:51:05,671 --> 00:51:08,456
There's no difference.
So, you know, I could say,
837
00:51:08,500 --> 00:51:10,589
"Well, if you want
to organize your psyche,
838
00:51:10,632 --> 00:51:12,721
you could start
by organizing your room."
839
00:51:18,771 --> 00:51:22,905
So, people have been taking
the things that I've been saying
840
00:51:22,949 --> 00:51:25,256
and making them
into merchandise.
841
00:51:26,648 --> 00:51:29,782
These are bumper stickers
that someone sent me.
842
00:51:31,218 --> 00:51:34,526
It's a book. I don't know how
many of them, but quite a few.
843
00:51:35,309 --> 00:51:39,226
"Clean your room,"
which has become some kind of an internet meme.
844
00:51:40,793 --> 00:51:42,882
They'd be horrified
to see this room.
845
00:51:43,622 --> 00:51:46,059
This is the only room
in the house that's messy.
846
00:51:47,060 --> 00:51:49,932
Can't really keep up
with everything.
847
00:51:49,976 --> 00:51:53,110
That'll teach me, be mouthy
about cleaning up your room.
848
00:51:58,158 --> 00:52:00,813
"I can't possibly express
how grateful I am to you
849
00:52:00,856 --> 00:52:03,076
for all the ways you have
and continue to help me.
850
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,166
What you are doing for society
is really important."
851
00:52:06,210 --> 00:52:08,734
I don't know what to make of it.
It's all part of the same
852
00:52:08,777 --> 00:52:13,260
strange thing I suppose
whatever that thing is.
853
00:52:13,304 --> 00:52:15,958
Sharp. That goes here.
854
00:52:17,525 --> 00:52:18,961
What have we got here?
855
00:52:21,442 --> 00:52:23,096
Oh, let's just see--
856
00:52:25,490 --> 00:52:30,234
that's a poster that someone spent an awful lot of time making,
857
00:52:30,277 --> 00:52:32,932
which is-- well, I don't even
know what to say about that.
858
00:52:53,909 --> 00:52:56,738
I first got to know Jordan when he applied for a job
859
00:52:56,782 --> 00:52:59,524
in psychology
at the University of Toronto.
860
00:52:59,567 --> 00:53:00,786
That was about 20 years ago.
861
00:53:02,788 --> 00:53:05,965
After he was hired,
I think it was a good hire.
862
00:53:06,008 --> 00:53:11,275
I mean, I remained his strong
advocate for many years.
863
00:53:17,281 --> 00:53:19,892
So, this is the third floor
of our house where Jordan
864
00:53:19,935 --> 00:53:22,677
and his family lived
for about five months.
865
00:53:22,721 --> 00:53:27,073
It looked a little different
then, but this is where it was.
866
00:53:27,116 --> 00:53:32,252
And... we all ate
together downstairs.
867
00:53:32,296 --> 00:53:34,254
There was not a kitchen
up here
868
00:53:34,298 --> 00:53:37,083
and we had kind
of lovely five months.
869
00:53:37,126 --> 00:53:39,085
We got to know
each other very well,
870
00:53:39,128 --> 00:53:41,218
got to know
his family very well.
871
00:53:41,261 --> 00:53:46,005
And afterwards, it remained
a kind of familial relationship.
872
00:53:53,839 --> 00:53:58,060
I didn't write this article
to persuade Jordan of anything.
873
00:53:58,104 --> 00:54:00,628
I wrote this because I thought
that there are people out there
874
00:54:00,672 --> 00:54:02,239
who should know what's going on.
875
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,204
What was extremely
upsetting to me
876
00:54:11,248 --> 00:54:13,772
was the disregard for students
877
00:54:13,815 --> 00:54:16,731
and he was extremely polarizing
878
00:54:16,775 --> 00:54:20,648
at a time that more polarization
was not helpful.
879
00:54:26,045 --> 00:54:27,916
Well,
it caused grief, I would say
880
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,354
is the right way
of thinking about it.
881
00:54:30,397 --> 00:54:33,226
I regard Bernie as a friend
882
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:38,013
and he had been a very good,
well, a good friend to me
883
00:54:38,057 --> 00:54:39,885
in all sorts of ways
and to my family.
884
00:54:39,928 --> 00:54:43,192
So, it came out of the blue.
885
00:54:43,236 --> 00:54:45,978
That was the other thing.
It was a real surprise.
886
00:54:46,021 --> 00:54:51,462
And I was surprised that we
hadn't discussed any of this.
887
00:54:52,376 --> 00:54:55,814
I called him
and I said, "You know,
888
00:54:55,857 --> 00:54:58,991
I'm really upset with what you're doing.
I find it really--"
889
00:54:59,034 --> 00:55:01,863
I was having a blood pressure
problem. I said,
890
00:55:01,907 --> 00:55:05,345
"I didn't want to talk about this,
but I want you to know that I--"
891
00:55:05,389 --> 00:55:09,088
And I said all these things.
He called me eight o'clock the next morning,
892
00:55:09,131 --> 00:55:12,265
"Bernie, we have to talk."
So, we talk.
893
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:15,573
He says,
"I know this is a sensitive issue in your family."
894
00:55:15,616 --> 00:55:20,360
It's not. I have a trans daughter,
but Jane's doing extremely well.
895
00:55:20,404 --> 00:55:24,364
I started saying, "No,
what bothers me..." I'm about to repeat
896
00:55:24,408 --> 00:55:26,975
what I had written and he
interrupts me and he says,
897
00:55:27,019 --> 00:55:29,630
"Bernie, you don't understand.
898
00:55:29,674 --> 00:55:33,504
I'm willing to give up everything because I really believe this.
899
00:55:33,547 --> 00:55:36,333
I'm willing to give up my job.
I'm willing to give up..."
900
00:55:36,376 --> 00:55:38,465
I don't remember where else
he put on the line,
901
00:55:38,509 --> 00:55:41,599
"...because I believe it."
And then he says,
902
00:55:41,642 --> 00:55:45,429
"And Bernie, Tammy..." That's
his wife. "...had a dream."
903
00:55:45,472 --> 00:55:47,387
I said,
"Okay, what was the dream?"
904
00:55:47,431 --> 00:55:49,737
And sometimes your dreams
are prophetic.
905
00:55:49,781 --> 00:55:54,176
What was the dream? She dreamed it was five minutes to midnight,
906
00:55:56,048 --> 00:56:02,924
the end of the world and Jordan
is there to save us from that.
907
00:56:02,968 --> 00:56:05,884
I know Jordan pretty well by now
and I'm saying,
908
00:56:05,927 --> 00:56:09,104
"Okay, Jordan. There's
really nothing to talk about."
909
00:56:09,148 --> 00:56:11,759
And I hung up.
910
00:56:12,456 --> 00:56:17,025
So, it is true that he called me a number of times since then,
911
00:56:17,069 --> 00:56:22,335
many times,
and I did not return the calls because he was on a roll.
912
00:56:22,379 --> 00:56:27,471
I was watching what he was doing.
I thought he was getting nastier, angrier,
913
00:56:27,514 --> 00:56:30,343
and I saw that
there was no reason to talk
914
00:56:30,387 --> 00:56:34,521
because I knew-- because I knew
there was no access to Jordan
915
00:56:34,565 --> 00:56:39,352
except to say, "Jordan,
you're doing a great thing
916
00:56:39,396 --> 00:56:41,180
and I believe
what you're doing."
917
00:56:43,530 --> 00:56:46,925
I did not do this lightly. It's not something I would have liked to do
918
00:56:47,926 --> 00:56:52,060
and it's only the fact
that so many people--
919
00:56:52,104 --> 00:56:56,891
I'm getting these emails from people saying they're glad that I wrote it.
920
00:56:56,935 --> 00:57:00,329
That makes me feel okay,
it was the right thing to do.
921
00:57:00,982 --> 00:57:03,855
"I am one of those female
academics you refer to.
922
00:57:03,898 --> 00:57:07,685
I don't have tenure and I've
completed my PhD late in life.
923
00:57:08,642 --> 00:57:13,473
My university has become polarized around
the issues that Peterson speaks about,
924
00:57:13,517 --> 00:57:16,258
to express any opinion
on Peterson's theories,
925
00:57:16,302 --> 00:57:20,349
places one firmly
in a for or anti-camp.
926
00:57:20,393 --> 00:57:23,048
There is no reasoned
critique camp.
927
00:57:23,091 --> 00:57:27,444
So, like a true coward,
I watch what I say,
928
00:57:27,487 --> 00:57:30,098
and I stew in silence."
929
00:57:33,537 --> 00:57:37,802
I think that to some degree
that it's true
930
00:57:37,845 --> 00:57:40,674
that I'm a polarizing figure.
931
00:57:40,718 --> 00:57:44,243
I'm a polarizing figure
because I'm adamantly opposed
932
00:57:44,286 --> 00:57:47,725
to the collectivist notions of
people on the Left and the Right
933
00:57:47,768 --> 00:57:52,164
and that produces a certain
amount of polarization.
934
00:57:52,207 --> 00:57:55,428
But I don't think that
that can be laid at my feet.
935
00:57:55,472 --> 00:57:58,910
I think it's part and parcel of the fact that we're in polarized times
936
00:57:58,953 --> 00:58:01,608
and I've done what I can
when I thought it was necessary
937
00:58:01,652 --> 00:58:04,263
to pull that polarization back.
938
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,877
What I worry about is the preacher like quality of his.
939
00:58:09,921 --> 00:58:14,447
He's been interested in
the authoritarian personality.
940
00:58:14,491 --> 00:58:19,234
He's be fascinated by
the horrible people in history.
941
00:58:19,278 --> 00:58:22,760
His house is filled
with Stalinist art.
942
00:58:22,803 --> 00:58:28,853
He says to remind him about the
awful things of that culture.
943
00:58:28,896 --> 00:58:32,552
He has a number of YouTubes
which he describes
944
00:58:32,596 --> 00:58:38,210
how they operate and he was
doing exactly the same thing.
945
00:58:41,256 --> 00:58:43,084
I spent a lot of time
thinking about Hitler
946
00:58:43,128 --> 00:58:45,652
and I was thinking,
"Well, how do you get into
947
00:58:45,696 --> 00:58:48,350
a state like that you know?"
And you think,
948
00:58:48,394 --> 00:58:52,833
"Well, he's a dictator and he
led his people down a bad path."
949
00:58:52,877 --> 00:58:55,183
It's like, that's not right.
That is not what happened.
950
00:58:56,533 --> 00:58:59,274
They had a conspiracy together
951
00:58:59,318 --> 00:59:01,886
and went down a bad path.
Now, think about it this way,
952
00:59:03,322 --> 00:59:05,585
the crowd's not happy
and neither are you
953
00:59:05,629 --> 00:59:08,545
and there's reason for it.
You start talking to them.
954
00:59:08,588 --> 00:59:10,503
You don't know what
you're upset about
955
00:59:10,547 --> 00:59:13,245
and neither does the crowd.
You start to articulate
956
00:59:13,288 --> 00:59:15,073
some things about why
you might be upset
957
00:59:15,116 --> 00:59:17,118
and some of them fall flat,
958
00:59:17,162 --> 00:59:19,904
but you're paying attention
to the crowd. Some of the things
959
00:59:19,947 --> 00:59:22,602
make the crowd
really wake up and listen.
960
00:59:22,646 --> 00:59:25,039
And so, you start saying
more of those things,
961
00:59:25,083 --> 00:59:27,912
but it's not like you're sitting there saying,
although you might be,
962
00:59:27,955 --> 00:59:30,828
"I'm going to tell this crowd
more what it wants to hear."
963
00:59:30,871 --> 00:59:34,092
It's more sophisticated
than that. And so, you do that
964
00:59:34,135 --> 00:59:38,096
a thousand times and you do that
to ever increasing crowds.
965
00:59:38,139 --> 00:59:41,012
And the crowd
really starts to go mad.
966
00:59:41,055 --> 00:59:44,406
And they basically tell you that
you're the savior of the nation.
967
00:59:44,450 --> 00:59:48,367
It's like at what?
How many bloody people have to tell you that
968
00:59:48,410 --> 00:59:50,238
before you start to believe it?
969
01:00:05,036 --> 01:00:08,953
Franklin says, "Fans are cancer
for the authentic individual."
970
01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:13,348
Well, I guess what you're pointing out is the danger of fame.
971
01:00:13,392 --> 01:00:15,655
I can't say I'm particularly
comfortable with it,
972
01:00:15,699 --> 01:00:18,005
which might seem
to be rather hypocritical
973
01:00:18,049 --> 01:00:21,835
as it isn't like I've shied
away from exposing
974
01:00:21,879 --> 01:00:24,272
my views in public.
975
01:00:24,316 --> 01:00:26,405
However, I would say,
976
01:00:26,448 --> 01:00:28,799
I think that's mostly
because of the responsibility.
977
01:00:28,842 --> 01:00:31,453
You know I've been
terrified for a whole year
978
01:00:31,497 --> 01:00:34,543
that I'd say something
unforgivably stupid
979
01:00:34,587 --> 01:00:36,894
and demolish myself in public
980
01:00:36,937 --> 01:00:39,461
and feel guilty and horrible about that for the rest of my life.
981
01:00:39,505 --> 01:00:42,551
I can't imagine what it would
be like to be hated publicly.
982
01:00:42,595 --> 01:00:45,511
I think that would just kill
me. I really think that.
983
01:00:49,602 --> 01:00:53,040
Our next guest is the kind of
guy people either love or hate.
984
01:00:53,084 --> 01:00:55,782
Clinical psychologist
Jordan B. Peterson
985
01:00:55,826 --> 01:00:58,785
has been described as one
of the most influential thinkers
986
01:00:58,829 --> 01:01:02,441
of our time, but also as
an Alt-Right figurehead
987
01:01:02,484 --> 01:01:04,356
who spouts conspiracies.
988
01:01:04,399 --> 01:01:07,402
People associate
you with pandering
989
01:01:07,446 --> 01:01:10,449
- to like white supremacists.
- I mean you are a provocateur.
990
01:01:10,492 --> 01:01:13,104
- Yeah. I never say anything--
- You're like the Alt-Right that you hate to be compared to.
991
01:01:13,147 --> 01:01:15,802
Because the political agenda
that I opposed was being driven
992
01:01:15,846 --> 01:01:17,412
by the people
on the radical Left.
993
01:01:17,456 --> 01:01:19,545
Those are the people
that I've been...
994
01:01:19,588 --> 01:01:21,721
taking to task, let's say.
995
01:01:21,765 --> 01:01:25,856
Didn't expect that
the initial reaction would be,
996
01:01:25,899 --> 01:01:27,422
"Oh, you must be a Nazi."
997
01:01:28,293 --> 01:01:31,731
- We'll meet that with resistance.
- Sorry.
998
01:01:31,775 --> 01:01:35,474
My sense is generally speaking
that if people want
999
01:01:35,517 --> 01:01:37,519
to talk to me
about what I'm doing,
1000
01:01:37,563 --> 01:01:40,522
then I talk to them.
Now you might say,
1001
01:01:40,566 --> 01:01:42,307
"Well, be careful
who you talk to."
1002
01:01:42,350 --> 01:01:44,309
It's like,
well, fair enough.
1003
01:01:46,790 --> 01:01:48,705
And then one last thing,
1004
01:01:48,748 --> 01:01:52,926
I'm not exactly sure what
to make of the Alt-Right and--
1005
01:01:58,149 --> 01:02:02,544
and then one last thing,
I'm not sure what--
1006
01:02:04,982 --> 01:02:08,986
and then one last thing,
I'm not sure how to understand
1007
01:02:09,029 --> 01:02:11,510
the Alt-Right
or to characterize it
1008
01:02:11,553 --> 01:02:13,860
or even to know
what to think about
1009
01:02:13,904 --> 01:02:15,732
its hypothetical existence
1010
01:02:16,907 --> 01:02:18,996
or my association with it.
1011
01:02:19,039 --> 01:02:21,433
But I can tell you
that I'm not in favor
1012
01:02:21,476 --> 01:02:24,262
of people banding together
any ideological groups.
1013
01:02:27,004 --> 01:02:32,749
And instead would
much rather see people live
1014
01:02:32,792 --> 01:02:35,577
fundamentally productive
and meaningful and honest
1015
01:02:35,621 --> 01:02:39,277
individual lives
and in that manner be a light
1016
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,279
unto their neighbors,
so to speak.
1017
01:02:41,322 --> 01:02:43,411
So, I would encourage
those of you
1018
01:02:43,455 --> 01:02:45,544
who are considering yourself
1019
01:02:45,587 --> 01:02:48,155
say on the Alt-Right
for that matter
1020
01:02:48,199 --> 01:02:50,854
as well
as on the radical Left to...
1021
01:02:52,681 --> 01:02:54,379
transcend your...
1022
01:02:55,859 --> 01:02:59,427
dangerous and impersonal
ideological identification
1023
01:02:59,471 --> 01:03:02,343
and start to live as true
individuals in the world.
1024
01:03:03,257 --> 01:03:06,391
That's what I think and I hope that I've been communicating that.
1025
01:03:06,434 --> 01:03:08,175
If I haven't, well I apologize
1026
01:03:08,219 --> 01:03:10,874
because that's what
I've been trying to do.
1027
01:03:37,944 --> 01:03:40,120
I am an icon carver.
1028
01:03:40,164 --> 01:03:42,296
And one of my big interests
is Christian symbolism
1029
01:03:42,340 --> 01:03:44,255
and symbolism in general.
1030
01:03:44,298 --> 01:03:45,604
I first encountered Jordan,
1031
01:03:45,647 --> 01:03:47,519
listening to him on the CBC.
1032
01:03:48,650 --> 01:03:51,305
I was driving and I couldn't
believe what I was hearing
1033
01:03:51,349 --> 01:03:54,047
because it was so close
to what I thought.
1034
01:03:54,091 --> 01:03:56,789
And so from then on, we kind
of got to know each other
1035
01:03:56,833 --> 01:03:59,966
and realized that we both have
a very symbolic vision
1036
01:04:00,010 --> 01:04:03,709
of the world.
We both see the world manifesting itself in patterns.
1037
01:04:05,929 --> 01:04:09,236
And so, I think
that Jordan is playing
1038
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,499
this kind
of in between character.
1039
01:04:11,543 --> 01:04:15,373
And he's kind of standing
in between different sides
1040
01:04:15,416 --> 01:04:18,811
because the Left has been
winning the cultural war,
1041
01:04:18,855 --> 01:04:20,987
let's say for the past decades.
1042
01:04:21,031 --> 01:04:24,425
Because of that, the fact that
Jordan is standing there more,
1043
01:04:24,469 --> 01:04:26,645
I think he's standing
quite in the middle
1044
01:04:26,688 --> 01:04:29,126
and he's trying to call
the attention
1045
01:04:29,169 --> 01:04:32,912
to the fact that the Left
is becoming totalitarian.
1046
01:04:32,956 --> 01:04:35,610
Then obviously,
people who are more on the Right
1047
01:04:35,654 --> 01:04:39,440
are going to see him
as their hero, let's say.
1048
01:04:40,746 --> 01:04:45,098
I've had very, very few, but
the odd letter from and really,
1049
01:04:45,142 --> 01:04:47,492
I mean, I could count them
on the fingers of one hand
1050
01:04:47,535 --> 01:04:49,537
from Neo-Nazis self-stated
who say
1051
01:04:51,017 --> 01:04:54,325
some variant of
"We understand completely
1052
01:04:54,368 --> 01:04:57,894
that you have no time for us,
but we think you're wrong."
1053
01:04:58,938 --> 01:05:00,200
Okay, well.
1054
01:05:02,942 --> 01:05:06,337
One of the things that I think
that has been amazing
1055
01:05:06,380 --> 01:05:09,557
in what he's been doing,
and this is hard
1056
01:05:09,601 --> 01:05:11,777
for people on the Left
to really understand,
1057
01:05:11,820 --> 01:05:15,085
is that he is actually
been tempering the Right.
1058
01:05:15,128 --> 01:05:17,174
I think he knows
that he's been doing that
1059
01:05:17,217 --> 01:05:21,134
because we've all felt that
there is really radical Right
1060
01:05:21,178 --> 01:05:23,658
that's bubbling underneath
and it's there.
1061
01:05:23,702 --> 01:05:25,660
There's no doubt
about it that it's there.
1062
01:05:25,704 --> 01:05:29,403
But the problem is what
do you do with those people?
1063
01:05:29,447 --> 01:05:31,362
How do you interact with them?
1064
01:05:31,405 --> 01:05:33,973
Like if you just say,
"Oh, they're evil,
1065
01:05:34,017 --> 01:05:36,671
let's not talk to them.
We just need to shut them out."
1066
01:05:36,715 --> 01:05:38,717
They're just-- it's just
going to keep growing.
1067
01:05:39,761 --> 01:05:42,373
One of the things that's happened to me over the last year,
1068
01:05:42,416 --> 01:05:44,897
somewhat surprisingly, is
that I'd been invited to speak
1069
01:05:44,941 --> 01:05:47,247
in front of a lot
of conservative groups.
1070
01:05:47,900 --> 01:05:52,470
And you know,
I would talk about what was going on in the universities
1071
01:05:52,513 --> 01:05:56,213
and what I thought might constitute a reasonable antidote to that.
1072
01:05:56,256 --> 01:05:59,390
And that was the adoption
of responsibility.
1073
01:05:59,433 --> 01:06:02,219
And this was actually a saleable
message to young people.
1074
01:06:02,959 --> 01:06:05,874
He's saying, "Be part
of a community. Get a family,
1075
01:06:05,918 --> 01:06:07,659
have friends, get a job."
1076
01:06:07,702 --> 01:06:09,966
Like that's how
you can be a Right winger,
1077
01:06:10,009 --> 01:06:14,100
not this stupid Nazi flirting
with these Nazi ideology.
1078
01:06:14,144 --> 01:06:15,972
That's useless.
1079
01:06:40,561 --> 01:06:42,041
Oh, shit.
1080
01:06:45,479 --> 01:06:47,829
Forgot to charge my phone.
1081
01:06:47,873 --> 01:06:51,442
Morning.
I was going to look into those theaters this morning, but...
1082
01:06:55,620 --> 01:06:57,404
- Did you eat?
- No.
1083
01:06:57,448 --> 01:06:59,058
That's why
there's food right there.
1084
01:07:13,029 --> 01:07:15,335
You haven't been getting
up and doing yoga with me.
1085
01:07:15,379 --> 01:07:17,511
Tight-- Tight muscle.
1086
01:07:18,295 --> 01:07:21,428
You'll have start getting up doing yoga with me again.
1087
01:07:24,605 --> 01:07:28,218
So what muscle is that--
runs down my back?
1088
01:07:29,523 --> 01:07:32,048
It's probably levator scapulae,
1089
01:07:32,091 --> 01:07:35,225
because when you look at the screen you always put your chin forward...
1090
01:07:35,268 --> 01:07:37,053
- Oh, yeah?
- ...which makes it spasm.
1091
01:07:38,358 --> 01:07:40,882
- That seems stupid.
- Yeah, does too,
1092
01:07:40,926 --> 01:07:42,797
but I think everybody does it.
1093
01:07:44,495 --> 01:07:46,279
- Thanks.
- You're welcome.
1094
01:07:47,193 --> 01:07:50,805
Alexa, what's my schedule?
1095
01:07:50,849 --> 01:07:53,112
Here's are the next four events.
1096
01:07:53,156 --> 01:07:56,115
Today at 12:00 p.m.
there's lunch.
1097
01:07:56,159 --> 01:08:00,337
At 2:20 p.m. there's Ben Shapiro
interview on YouTube Channel.
1098
01:08:00,380 --> 01:08:02,730
At 3:00 p.m.
there's Michael Shermer.
1099
01:08:02,774 --> 01:08:05,820
And at 5:00 p.m.
there's Mikhaila's birthday.
1100
01:08:05,864 --> 01:08:07,387
Do you want to hear more?
1101
01:08:07,431 --> 01:08:09,868
No, I haven't read
Michael's book.
1102
01:08:09,911 --> 01:08:11,870
- Where is it?
- Right there.
1103
01:08:11,913 --> 01:08:13,959
- On the other side.
- Oh, I can't see it from there.
1104
01:08:14,002 --> 01:08:17,832
- No.
- I got to read that today.
1105
01:08:22,881 --> 01:08:26,624
I wonder how many people have
watched that high school video?
1106
01:08:26,667 --> 01:08:28,278
Never mind.
1107
01:08:29,844 --> 01:08:33,109
- You should concentrate on breakfast, dear.
- Yeah.
1108
01:08:33,805 --> 01:08:35,676
- What do you mean "yeah"?
- I am.
1109
01:08:36,764 --> 01:08:39,419
No. You haven't
to connect your computer.
1110
01:08:50,038 --> 01:08:52,780
See you. Okay. He's here.
1111
01:09:07,665 --> 01:09:10,929
I don't really like being tangled up in the political wars.
1112
01:09:12,191 --> 01:09:14,802
The political is interfering
with the philosophical
1113
01:09:14,846 --> 01:09:17,283
and psychological realm.
That's my sense.
1114
01:09:18,415 --> 01:09:21,287
And so, that's why I got embroiled in political conflict
1115
01:09:21,331 --> 01:09:23,768
with regards to bill C-16.
1116
01:09:24,377 --> 01:09:27,598
The way forward through
the ideological idiocy
1117
01:09:27,641 --> 01:09:29,991
is to strengthen the individual
1118
01:09:30,035 --> 01:09:33,430
and so I think when I deviate
from that, it's an error.
1119
01:09:33,473 --> 01:09:36,259
It's not necessarily an
avoidable error at the moment.
1120
01:09:50,708 --> 01:09:53,450
- Oh, look at that. You know what that is?
- No.
1121
01:09:53,493 --> 01:09:56,627
That's like
the first draft of my book,
1122
01:09:56,670 --> 01:09:59,630
Maps of Meaning1990.
1123
01:09:59,673 --> 01:10:02,023
It was called
War Cause and Cure.
1124
01:10:02,067 --> 01:10:03,024
Oh!
1125
01:10:04,504 --> 01:10:07,420
- This is from the NDP back in...
- Yeah.
1126
01:10:07,464 --> 01:10:10,554
- ...in 1977.
- That stuff should be there.
1127
01:10:10,597 --> 01:10:14,253
I ran for the vice-president of the NDP in Alberta
1128
01:10:14,297 --> 01:10:16,473
and that was the first
public speech I gave.
1129
01:10:16,516 --> 01:10:19,911
There was about 600 people.
My knees shook the whole time.
1130
01:10:19,954 --> 01:10:24,481
"I'm running for the position of general
vice-president of the New Democratic Party
1131
01:10:24,524 --> 01:10:26,918
because I believe I can make
a contribution to the party
1132
01:10:26,961 --> 01:10:30,182
in at least two specific areas
which are as follows:
1133
01:10:30,226 --> 01:10:32,619
Firstly, Canadian nationalism.
1134
01:10:33,446 --> 01:10:35,753
Being a Canadian involves
tolerance of everyone
1135
01:10:35,796 --> 01:10:37,972
no matter what language they
speak, the color of their skin
1136
01:10:38,016 --> 01:10:40,105
or what their political
beliefs might be."
1137
01:10:44,196 --> 01:10:48,766
George interview.
I'm amazed that you managed to keep that all those years.
1138
01:10:48,809 --> 01:10:51,725
Meanwhile, there's a budding socialist in Fairview
1139
01:10:51,769 --> 01:10:57,340
and he apparently is destined to go far in politics,
14-year-old Jordan Peterson
1140
01:10:57,383 --> 01:11:01,082
was almost elected to the executive of the Alberta NDP
1141
01:11:01,126 --> 01:11:04,782
during their annual convention during the weekend at Edmonton.
1142
01:11:04,825 --> 01:11:07,698
- You're in about what now, grade nine?
- 10th.
1143
01:11:07,741 --> 01:11:10,875
Grade 10. Two more years to go on Alberta.
1144
01:11:10,918 --> 01:11:15,271
Talked about Canadian unity.
How do you feel about that?
1145
01:11:16,010 --> 01:11:19,144
I would really like to see Canada stay together.
I really would.
1146
01:11:19,187 --> 01:11:22,234
What do you think you have to do to ensure that it would?
1147
01:11:22,278 --> 01:11:25,716
I think we need culture of some kind, something definite.
1148
01:11:25,759 --> 01:11:28,458
We need something that we can
really be proud of in Canada,
1149
01:11:28,501 --> 01:11:30,547
so to stick us close together.
1150
01:11:30,590 --> 01:11:34,551
That's nice. I didn't
sound like a smart aleck kid.
1151
01:11:34,594 --> 01:11:36,248
No, I don't
think you were.
1152
01:11:36,292 --> 01:11:37,945
Well, you weren't
a smart aleck kid.
1153
01:11:37,989 --> 01:11:39,120
Well, that's good.
1154
01:11:40,905 --> 01:11:42,559
Pounded if you had been.
1155
01:11:42,602 --> 01:11:44,952
Yeah.
1156
01:11:48,956 --> 01:11:52,612
The party operatives, I didn't
like them when I was 16.
1157
01:11:52,656 --> 01:11:55,615
They were-- I could tell
already that most of them
1158
01:11:55,659 --> 01:11:57,661
were driven by resentment
1159
01:11:57,704 --> 01:12:00,359
and that's when I read
George Orwell.
1160
01:12:00,403 --> 01:12:03,144
And you know, he said, "Well,
the middle-class socialist types
1161
01:12:03,188 --> 01:12:05,233
generally don't like the poor.
They just hate the rich."
1162
01:12:05,277 --> 01:12:07,540
I thought, "Oh, yeah,
that's it. That's it."
1163
01:12:07,584 --> 01:12:10,761
He put his finger
right on that problem.
1164
01:12:12,937 --> 01:12:14,939
The earliest political
memory I have,
1165
01:12:16,114 --> 01:12:18,334
it was when Robert Kennedy
was shot.
1166
01:12:18,377 --> 01:12:21,119
I don't know how old I was,
probably four or five.
1167
01:12:21,162 --> 01:12:23,121
I watched his funeral
and I thought,
1168
01:12:23,164 --> 01:12:24,992
"I'm going to have
a funeral like that."
1169
01:12:27,430 --> 01:12:30,128
I have no idea. I have
no idea why I thought that.
1170
01:12:33,740 --> 01:12:39,398
That it was-- well, that it
was a very large public event.
1171
01:12:39,442 --> 01:12:42,488
That there was a lot of grief
that was associated with it.
1172
01:12:42,532 --> 01:12:46,579
That was the first thing that really,
kind of, had an impact on me,
1173
01:12:46,623 --> 01:12:48,799
I suppose that was part of
the outside political world,
1174
01:12:48,842 --> 01:12:51,018
but I was pretty young
when that happened.
1175
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,161
Hello. Jordan?
1176
01:13:03,204 --> 01:13:05,772
Mm-hmm.
1177
01:13:07,470 --> 01:13:10,342
- What's that?
- It's a plague doctor mask.
1178
01:13:10,386 --> 01:13:11,996
- A what doctor mask?
- Plague.
1179
01:13:12,039 --> 01:13:13,954
- Plague doctor?
- Hmm.
1180
01:13:13,998 --> 01:13:17,088
- Are you the plague doctor today?
- Apparently.
1181
01:13:17,131 --> 01:13:20,396
- Maybe not just today.
- Okay.
1182
01:13:21,222 --> 01:13:24,922
It's been hard. So, it's weird
seeing these two Jordans.
1183
01:13:26,010 --> 01:13:28,055
There's
the Jordan Peterson I know.
1184
01:13:28,099 --> 01:13:30,406
There's the Jordan
Peterson I see on Twitter.
1185
01:13:30,449 --> 01:13:33,321
And then there's the cult
of Jordan Peterson,
1186
01:13:33,365 --> 01:13:37,587
which also has its own ideas,
1187
01:13:37,630 --> 01:13:41,068
which are sometimes
only somewhat correlated
1188
01:13:41,112 --> 01:13:42,809
with what he actually believes.
1189
01:13:44,768 --> 01:13:47,074
Actually, have your neighbors
talked to you about this?
1190
01:13:47,118 --> 01:13:50,948
Not much. I mean,
I really haven't seen anyone,
1191
01:13:50,991 --> 01:13:53,951
- you know, I mean, how much have we seen each other?
- Not much.
1192
01:13:53,994 --> 01:13:57,128
Right, and I see you more
than I see anyone else.
1193
01:13:57,171 --> 01:14:00,784
- Wow.
- Yeah. How's the band going, man?
1194
01:14:00,827 --> 01:14:03,482
- Pretty well, um...
- Do you have a second?
1195
01:14:03,526 --> 01:14:07,051
- Hey, sure.
- I have been watching your lectures on YouTube recently--
1196
01:14:07,094 --> 01:14:09,619
- How are you doing, man?
- I'm Jessie Cooke. Nice to meet you.
1197
01:14:09,662 --> 01:14:12,186
- Hi, Jessie.
- You've helped me through a lot of mental shit in the past month
1198
01:14:12,230 --> 01:14:14,275
- and I want to thank you.
- I'm glad to hear that.
1199
01:14:14,319 --> 01:14:17,061
- What sort of thing?
- I'm going through some depression,
1200
01:14:17,104 --> 01:14:19,542
anxiety issues. My life
was out of order and, you know,
1201
01:14:19,585 --> 01:14:22,936
you just--
your lectures just gave me
1202
01:14:22,980 --> 01:14:27,201
like a bit of space to work
myself through, you know.
1203
01:14:27,245 --> 01:14:28,986
- Good.
- I don't know how to explain it.
1204
01:14:29,029 --> 01:14:31,467
- You explained it. That's fine.
- Yeah, man.
1205
01:14:31,510 --> 01:14:33,512
Yeah. Well, I'm really happy
to hear that.
1206
01:14:33,556 --> 01:14:35,514
I'm so thankful to fucking
meet you and say hello to you.
1207
01:14:35,558 --> 01:14:37,908
- Well, it's a pleasure.
- Keep up the great work.
1208
01:14:37,951 --> 01:14:40,388
- I hope to see you again.
- Good to meet you.
1209
01:14:41,085 --> 01:14:42,913
He's having
so many adoring fans.
1210
01:14:42,956 --> 01:14:45,568
He's having so many people
coming to him
1211
01:14:45,611 --> 01:14:48,614
and then he's
also being confronted
1212
01:14:48,658 --> 01:14:52,009
by people who he sees
is mischaracterizing him.
1213
01:14:56,579 --> 01:15:00,234
I mean, I get upset when I read
some of the horrible things
1214
01:15:00,278 --> 01:15:02,280
he says and he does say
horrible things sometimes.
1215
01:15:23,954 --> 01:15:27,958
I think he doesn't see that
when he's fighting this battle,
1216
01:15:28,001 --> 01:15:31,875
he's actually falling victim
to the exact same things
1217
01:15:31,918 --> 01:15:33,572
that he's accusing them of.
1218
01:15:37,402 --> 01:15:39,535
Like for a while,
one of the things I proposed
1219
01:15:39,578 --> 01:15:43,147
in Canada was that
the conservatives in particular,
1220
01:15:43,190 --> 01:15:46,498
cut the university funding
by 25 % so that the universities
1221
01:15:46,542 --> 01:15:48,282
would have to sort
themselves out.
1222
01:15:48,326 --> 01:15:51,590
But then that was
a provocative claim obviously,
1223
01:15:51,634 --> 01:15:53,636
but then I thought,
"Well, that's not a good idea
1224
01:15:53,679 --> 01:15:56,595
because it opens up the door
to political interference
1225
01:15:56,639 --> 01:16:00,033
- in the academy." And that's bad, conservative or Left.
- Exactly, that's right.
1226
01:16:01,469 --> 01:16:04,298
Like convince
people to shut down the women's studies departments
1227
01:16:04,342 --> 01:16:08,520
or the SJWs. That's not
opening up the dialogue.
1228
01:16:08,564 --> 01:16:10,914
It's a derogatory term
about a group of people.
1229
01:16:10,957 --> 01:16:13,133
When you take that approach,
you invalidate
1230
01:16:14,178 --> 01:16:17,398
the other person entirely.
You call them hysterical.
1231
01:16:17,442 --> 01:16:19,531
You call them
ideologically possessed.
1232
01:16:19,575 --> 01:16:21,315
That closes
any type of communication.
1233
01:16:21,359 --> 01:16:22,708
I think it actually
1234
01:16:22,752 --> 01:16:24,275
undermines his message.
1235
01:16:24,971 --> 01:16:27,844
Does it bother you
that your audience
1236
01:16:27,887 --> 01:16:32,283
is predominantly male?
Isn't that a bit divisive?
1237
01:16:32,326 --> 01:16:34,154
No, I don't think so. I mean,
1238
01:16:34,198 --> 01:16:36,592
it's no more divisive
than the fact that YouTube
1239
01:16:36,635 --> 01:16:39,290
is primarily male
and Tumblr is primarily female.
1240
01:16:39,333 --> 01:16:42,119
- That's pretty divisive, isn't it?
- Tumblr is primarily female.
1241
01:16:42,162 --> 01:16:44,643
- Do you think men and women can work in the workplace together?
- I don't know.
1242
01:16:44,687 --> 01:16:48,168
- Without sexual harassment?
- We'll see. We don't know what the rules are.
1243
01:16:48,212 --> 01:16:52,651
Like, here's a rule. How about no makeup in the workplace?
How about high heels?
1244
01:16:52,695 --> 01:16:55,654
- What about high heels?
- What about them?
1245
01:16:55,698 --> 01:16:59,615
They're there to exaggerate sexual attractiveness.
That's what high heels do.
1246
01:16:59,658 --> 01:17:02,748
Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't
use sexual displays in the workplace.
1247
01:17:02,792 --> 01:17:05,664
I'm not saying that...
but I am saying
1248
01:17:05,708 --> 01:17:08,667
that is what they're doing
and that is what they're doing.
1249
01:17:08,711 --> 01:17:11,801
Do you feel like a serious woman who does not want sexual harassment
1250
01:17:11,844 --> 01:17:14,978
in the workplace, do you feel
like if she wears makeup
1251
01:17:15,021 --> 01:17:18,677
- in the workplace that she is somewhat being hypocritical?
- Yeah.
1252
01:17:20,287 --> 01:17:22,463
- Okay.
- I do think that.
1253
01:17:22,507 --> 01:17:24,727
When you say that, when
you say these kind of things,
1254
01:17:24,770 --> 01:17:28,818
a woman may think that
"Oh, I might be responsible
1255
01:17:28,861 --> 01:17:33,039
for what this guy at the office said to me because yeah,
I was wearing make-up.
1256
01:17:33,083 --> 01:17:36,042
- So I'm the one to be blamed."
- That wasn't the point I was making.
1257
01:17:36,086 --> 01:17:38,436
No, but do you understand
that for a woman watching this
1258
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:41,657
and who is a victim of sexual
harassment in the workplace--
1259
01:17:41,700 --> 01:17:45,661
- I don't care about that.
- You don't care about what she may feel after she hears you?
1260
01:17:45,704 --> 01:17:48,359
No, I don't care.
I really don't care particularly
1261
01:17:48,402 --> 01:17:50,230
what people feel about facts.
1262
01:17:50,927 --> 01:17:52,929
I thought we were talking
about masculinity.
1263
01:17:52,972 --> 01:17:55,192
- We are. Yes, we are.
- No, we're not.
1264
01:17:55,235 --> 01:17:57,107
No. Basically,
what you've been trying to do,
1265
01:17:57,150 --> 01:17:58,717
I would say
for the last 15 minutes
1266
01:17:58,761 --> 01:18:01,067
is put me into a sequence
of corners
1267
01:18:01,111 --> 01:18:04,592
by accusing me of various forms
of misbehavior.
1268
01:18:04,636 --> 01:18:07,726
It's funny, I think that
when I read these articles,
1269
01:18:07,770 --> 01:18:11,817
almost none of them have to do with my experience with Jordan.
1270
01:18:11,861 --> 01:18:14,777
Right. Here are these articles
about how he's the savior
1271
01:18:14,820 --> 01:18:18,432
of all the young men who is
fighting the evil oppressors
1272
01:18:18,476 --> 01:18:20,130
that are about
to take over the world
1273
01:18:20,173 --> 01:18:24,221
or he is this evil white
supremacist Nazi
1274
01:18:24,264 --> 01:18:28,355
who is trying to destroy everything that's good about the world.
1275
01:18:28,399 --> 01:18:32,098
The professor who
says equal pay for women...
1276
01:18:32,142 --> 01:18:33,447
Really, is that
when we want to do?
1277
01:18:33,491 --> 01:18:35,449
...is a load of rubbish.
1278
01:18:35,493 --> 01:18:37,277
These differences
between men and women,
1279
01:18:37,321 --> 01:18:38,496
they're not going away.
1280
01:18:38,539 --> 01:18:41,107
Oh, my God.
1281
01:18:41,151 --> 01:18:43,849
You have to travel
a long way to find true...
1282
01:18:43,893 --> 01:18:45,372
Like he doesn't believe...
1283
01:18:46,678 --> 01:18:49,463
anything the way
that it was framed there.
1284
01:18:50,900 --> 01:18:54,294
He's just a guy
trying to figure out
1285
01:18:54,338 --> 01:18:55,861
the world in this sense.
1286
01:18:57,558 --> 01:19:00,910
I know that he thinks
about things very deeply.
1287
01:19:00,953 --> 01:19:03,042
He doesn't like to admit it,
1288
01:19:03,086 --> 01:19:06,306
but he's a very agreeable,
compassionate person
1289
01:19:06,350 --> 01:19:08,656
under the gruff exterior.
1290
01:19:08,700 --> 01:19:12,486
And I think he's at best
when helping people
1291
01:19:12,530 --> 01:19:15,402
find personal meaning. You know,
1292
01:19:15,446 --> 01:19:17,883
that is the antidote
to extremism.
1293
01:19:29,373 --> 01:19:30,766
Life is suffering.
1294
01:19:32,463 --> 01:19:37,511
Love is the desire to see unnecessary suffering ameliorated.
1295
01:19:38,817 --> 01:19:40,471
Truth is the handmaiden of love.
1296
01:19:42,865 --> 01:19:45,737
Dialogue is the pathway
to truth,
1297
01:19:47,957 --> 01:19:50,263
so speech must be untrammeled,
1298
01:19:50,916 --> 01:19:53,136
so that dialogue can take place,
1299
01:19:54,702 --> 01:19:57,270
so that we can all humbly learn,
1300
01:19:58,794 --> 01:20:01,187
so the truth can serve love,
1301
01:20:01,231 --> 01:20:03,842
so that suffering
can be ameliorated,
1302
01:20:03,886 --> 01:20:06,671
so that we can all
stumble forward
1303
01:20:06,714 --> 01:20:08,804
towards the Kingdom of God.
1304
01:20:10,893 --> 01:20:14,026
Thank you for inviting me
to McMinnville.
1305
01:20:43,621 --> 01:20:47,146
When I first met him, I kind of met him in the neighborhood.
1306
01:20:47,190 --> 01:20:49,061
He looked a lot different
as a little kid,
1307
01:20:49,105 --> 01:20:53,065
but he had the intensity
that he's always had.
1308
01:20:59,942 --> 01:21:02,335
That had to be the third time he asked me to marry him
1309
01:21:02,379 --> 01:21:04,294
and I finally said yes.
1310
01:21:04,337 --> 01:21:06,687
So, he said, "Okay. If that's going to be the case,
1311
01:21:06,731 --> 01:21:10,169
if we're going to get married,
then the guiding principle
1312
01:21:10,213 --> 01:21:14,695
in our relationship has to be
truth or it won't work."
1313
01:21:17,481 --> 01:21:20,876
And... I said, "Okay."
1314
01:21:21,485 --> 01:21:24,140
I'd never really thought
much about it before.
1315
01:21:24,183 --> 01:21:26,620
You know, so I was just looking at everything
1316
01:21:26,664 --> 01:21:29,710
that I had built my life on
1317
01:21:29,754 --> 01:21:33,714
and was trying to decide whether that was going to be okay or not.
1318
01:21:33,758 --> 01:21:36,630
So he really put a bee
in my bonnet.
1319
01:21:36,674 --> 01:21:38,328
He really put a bee
in my bonnet.
1320
01:21:42,985 --> 01:21:46,249
Because when you first get together,
or at least when we first got together,
1321
01:21:46,292 --> 01:21:52,081
there was lots of old family
things to have to unpack.
1322
01:21:52,124 --> 01:21:56,999
And Jordan was relentless
in unpacking those things.
1323
01:21:58,435 --> 01:22:00,524
Say somebody was coming over
for dinner
1324
01:22:00,567 --> 01:22:02,743
that used to make me
very anxious.
1325
01:22:02,787 --> 01:22:05,746
And Jordan would, you know,
1326
01:22:05,790 --> 01:22:07,574
that'd be a question for him.
1327
01:22:07,618 --> 01:22:09,533
Why was I having trouble
with this?
1328
01:22:09,576 --> 01:22:13,232
Then he wouldn't let it go.
He wouldn't let it go.
1329
01:22:13,276 --> 01:22:15,234
We'd have to get
to the bottom of it.
1330
01:22:15,278 --> 01:22:16,757
We'd have to figure it out
because we didn't want
1331
01:22:16,801 --> 01:22:18,194
to have this argument again.
1332
01:22:18,890 --> 01:22:23,068
Over probably the first year
or two we were married,
1333
01:22:23,112 --> 01:22:28,421
oh, man, we went through
so many conversations.
1334
01:22:28,465 --> 01:22:31,424
Three-day-long
sometime conversations
1335
01:22:31,468 --> 01:22:36,995
about unpacking
old generational...
1336
01:22:37,953 --> 01:22:41,260
weight habits and behaviors
and beliefs and things
1337
01:22:41,304 --> 01:22:46,135
to become more clear
with each other
1338
01:22:46,178 --> 01:22:50,008
about where we stood and so that we could be standing together.
1339
01:22:51,879 --> 01:22:54,621
Like at every step of the way
Jordan was trying to...
1340
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:59,104
help to keep
the communication going
1341
01:22:59,148 --> 01:23:02,107
and to keep the...
1342
01:23:02,151 --> 01:23:06,677
road smooth for all of us. And that was very, very helpful,
1343
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:09,506
but very,
very difficult conversations.
1344
01:23:09,549 --> 01:23:12,422
And it worked,
it-- it really did.
1345
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:23,172
People ask me
what it's been like for me
1346
01:23:23,215 --> 01:23:27,524
and they always approach me
like, I must have been--
1347
01:23:27,567 --> 01:23:31,484
this must've been scary or this
must have been overwhelming,
1348
01:23:31,528 --> 01:23:35,532
you know. And I travel
with him. So, I'm there,
1349
01:23:35,575 --> 01:23:42,104
but he really is like
plugged into the world
1350
01:23:42,147 --> 01:23:44,019
like he never was before.
1351
01:23:45,324 --> 01:23:51,156
Yeah.
Well, we'll work out a detailed tour through Europe and so--
1352
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:54,029
- Okay.
- And I'm looking forward to that.
1353
01:23:54,072 --> 01:23:58,468
And so,
finding moments where...
1354
01:23:59,295 --> 01:24:03,429
we have him again
are precious moments.
1355
01:24:04,213 --> 01:24:07,825
It wasn't scary and it hasn't been overwhelming,
1356
01:24:08,608 --> 01:24:11,307
but I've lost Jordan
to the world.
1357
01:24:16,007 --> 01:24:18,270
- Thanks for being the father I never had.
- Hey, my pleasure.
1358
01:24:35,374 --> 01:24:38,638
The best story isn't in the realm of identity politics.
1359
01:24:38,682 --> 01:24:41,728
It isn't, well,
the Left has the best story or the Right has the best story.
1360
01:24:41,772 --> 01:24:46,733
It's that that whole level of analysis isn't the right story.
1361
01:24:49,562 --> 01:24:53,566
And the story that I'm telling people is that their lives matter
1362
01:24:53,610 --> 01:24:57,135
more than they think, more than they want them to even
1363
01:24:57,179 --> 01:25:00,660
and that their ethical
decisions determine
1364
01:25:00,704 --> 01:25:02,140
the direction of the world.
1365
01:25:09,843 --> 01:25:11,715
I'm not a huge fan of the fact
1366
01:25:11,758 --> 01:25:13,369
that this documentary
is being made,
1367
01:25:13,412 --> 01:25:16,111
I think I said
to you at the beginning
1368
01:25:16,154 --> 01:25:18,113
that if a documentary
was going to be made
1369
01:25:18,156 --> 01:25:20,289
about what was happening
at all, it should focus
1370
01:25:20,332 --> 01:25:23,422
on the trans community and how
it has been affected by this.
1371
01:25:23,466 --> 01:25:27,426
I thought that positioning it through a focus on Jordan Peterson
1372
01:25:27,470 --> 01:25:31,474
was just going to contribute
to his notoriety
1373
01:25:31,517 --> 01:25:34,955
or him building up some
anti-hero identity for himself.
1374
01:25:36,696 --> 01:25:38,916
Watching
how the things have developed
1375
01:25:38,959 --> 01:25:41,658
and he stayed in the news and people still talk about him,
1376
01:25:41,701 --> 01:25:46,532
you know,
he's advising candidates for like the Conservative Party
1377
01:25:46,576 --> 01:25:51,885
and like just getting way more
distance off that controversy
1378
01:25:51,929 --> 01:25:56,325
that he started than anyone
who was opposed to him did.
1379
01:26:00,546 --> 01:26:04,898
And what I've increasingly realized is something like
1380
01:26:04,942 --> 01:26:07,553
the best story will win.
1381
01:26:11,949 --> 01:26:14,778
I hope that what I'm doing
is telling the best story
1382
01:26:14,821 --> 01:26:17,128
and I think if it doesn't win,
1383
01:26:17,172 --> 01:26:20,131
then something that is really
not good wins instead
1384
01:26:20,175 --> 01:26:24,962
and that's-- I'm not comfortable with that as an alternative outcome.
1385
01:26:47,071 --> 01:26:48,899
Well, it's changed my life.
1386
01:26:51,293 --> 01:26:54,209
It's undoubtedly changed me.
I don't know how.
1387
01:26:54,252 --> 01:26:56,820
I haven't had enough time
to think about it.
1388
01:26:56,863 --> 01:26:59,866
Like, so imagine
that something really...
1389
01:26:59,910 --> 01:27:02,347
incomprehensible
is happening to you.
1390
01:27:02,391 --> 01:27:05,220
You can't believe it.
You have no place in your...
1391
01:27:05,263 --> 01:27:07,831
conceptual structure
to account for that
1392
01:27:07,874 --> 01:27:10,225
and so you feel
as if it's not real.
1393
01:27:10,268 --> 01:27:13,184
That's what derealization means.
It means, this isn't my life.
1394
01:27:13,228 --> 01:27:16,187
You're separated from it. It's because you can't comprehend it.
1395
01:27:16,231 --> 01:27:19,103
Well, that's-- every time
I wake up, it's like...
1396
01:27:19,146 --> 01:27:22,106
I wake up and then it hits me
1397
01:27:22,149 --> 01:27:25,414
that this all--
this is happening.
1398
01:27:31,028 --> 01:27:34,161
All right.
I am truly thrilled to bring this man up here.
1399
01:27:34,205 --> 01:27:37,252
He is at the center,
right in the center,
1400
01:27:37,295 --> 01:27:40,124
not just the center. He is
at the center of the center.
1401
01:27:40,167 --> 01:27:43,083
Here, I can-- we can do this.
Are we recording again?
1402
01:27:43,127 --> 01:27:45,260
So, this is what
I actually look like
1403
01:27:45,303 --> 01:27:48,437
and then this is what people who
don't like me think I look like.
1404
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:51,527
- Yes.
- And he's become a good friend of mine
1405
01:27:51,570 --> 01:27:55,922
and I am thrilled and honored to bring up Dr.
Jordan Peterson, everybody.
1406
01:28:09,719 --> 01:28:12,287
Yeah, that's a good question.
I would say they're both real.
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