All language subtitles for Stories We Tell (2012) BR.1080p.eng

"When you're in the middle of a story,

"it isn't a story at all,

"but only a confusion,

"a dark roaring,

"a blindness,

"a wreckage of shattered
glass and splintered wood,

"like a house in a whirlwind,
or else a boat

"crushed by the icebergs
or swept over the rapids,

"and all aboard
are powerless to stop it.

"It's only afterwards that it
becomes anything like a story at all.

"When you're telling it to
yourself or to someone else."

How far am I gonna go up?

- Uh, three flights.
- Just keep going.

Take a break when you need to.

Jolly good.

Here we are,
then. Hi.

Hey.

All right, you two.

So this is where
you're sitting.

Oh, right.
It's here.

- Right, then.
- Okay.

Oh, let's have a look and see.

Oh, my God.

So this is the first half.

This is what, love?
The first half of what we're recording.

Are we gonna do the whole lot?

Yeah, there's another...

All this?
Yeah.

It's the whole of the thing
that I wrote,

it's a severe punishment, that.

Whose tea is that?

Okay, so, and oh...

I just think that I might be
sweating through my shirt.

Yeah, I'm ready.
Okay.

I don't like this.

Are you nervous?
A little.

Yeah, it'll get worse.

I hope that you'll
explain to me some time

what all this is that you're trying to do.
- Huh?

The two cameras and me
recording it visually and...

I mean,
it's not the normal way of doing it, is it?

I don't know.
Hmm.

We've told you
it's a documentary,

but it's actually...
It's an interrogation process.

What?

It's an interrogation
process that we've set up.

Okay.

I honestly need pills.

Do you really?
Are you really? I'm so nervous.

Are my teeth okay?

I feel like I'm sweating.

And how far down...
What's my frame?

Okay.

How are my breasts?

Okay, show time.

Me? Do you want me?
Oh, I'm sorry.

Okay, Dad, so, um...

We can start anytime.
Are you rolling? Yeah.

Okay.

We're off.

"In the beginning...
The end.

"I am unique.

"From that precise moment
when I was dragged

"out of my mother's womb
into this cold world,

"I was complete.

"An amalgam of the DNA passed
on to me by my mother and father.

"And they, too, had been born
finished products

"with their DNA handed down
by their respective parents

"and so back ad infinitum.

"It is clear to me
that I was always there,

"somewhere in my ancestor's DNA,
just waiting to just be born.

"So this unique I
has always existed,

"even in the mystery
of nothingness.

"So where to start?"

So, Dad,
can you tell the whole story?

The marriage to Mum and everything
that happened since.

Good God.

Yup.

The entire story?

I'm gonna ask you now
to tell the whole story

as though
I don't know the story

from the very beginning
to the very end.

Shit. Um...

from beginning to end
in your own words,

like, as though you're
telling a story to someone?

Like a medley.

A medley.
Yeah, okay.

Can you describe
the whole story

from the beginning until now
in your own words?

What?

Wow.

I guess I better pee first.

Wow. Yeah, give me a moment.
- Yeah, go pee now.

What do you think of
this documentary being made?

Um...

You can be totally candid.
Can I?

A lot of you have been, so...

You know, I guess I have this
sort of instinctive reaction of,

like, "Who fucking cares about
our family, right?" Can I swear?

Like, who cares about

our stupid family and...

Like, I'm sort of embarrassed.

'Cause I think, "It's our family and
every family has a story and..."

But I do think it's really
interesting to look at

this one thing that happened

and how it's refracted
in so many different ways

and there's so many
different angles.

By describing Mum in as
much detail as possible.

Oh...
Well, Mum...

Mom, I will refer her to
as Mom, not Diane.

She was... She was the most fun
I could think of as a child.

She was infectious,
enthusiastic and excited

about everything.

My memory of Mom is,

uh, of someone
who was very loud.

She walked very heavily

and made the record
skip, actually.

And my impression is she was
a fun person at parties,

that she was a fun person
to have in an audience

'cause she laughed loud.

You can't...

You can't talk about Diane, I don't think,
without talking about her laugh.

It infused every situation
that she was in.

What attracted people to her
was a sense of joy.

She had a contagious
personality, I thought,

and when I was really young
I used to, um,

watch I Love Lucy and I
actually thought that was her

because she was sort of
fun and goofy and...

She was very warm,
she was, you know, full of life

and loved to dance and loved
to party and laughing a lot

and she loved to sing and
she was the worst singer,

I mean, there's a big tent within
which you can enjoy life with her.

There are people who just light up
the life for those people around her.

And people gravitate to them

like a moth to the flame,
you know? And that was her.

And she also was
very productive.

Got a lot of things done,
she was a very busy person

and managed to juggle
lots of different things.

I remember her being on the phone a lot,
for example,

and I remember the hand saying,

"Hold on.
Shh! Shh! Hold on."

Whenever I would meet Diane,

I always found that she was in trouble.

Something she'd done.
She'd left something in a cab,

or she'd arrive saying, "Oh, you have
to come with me. I have to go there

And as we were walking,
you know, she'd be ahead of me

trying to tell me why
everything was in disarray.

Whenever I would see her
it seemed as though...

Oh, something was going wrong,

um, it was her fault

and she was trying to sort
it out and correct it.

As I understand it, um,

Mum was doing plays

and she met Michael
in one of those plays

and she instantly, sort of,
fell in love with him.

"In 1965, Michael played Mick

"in The Caretaker's
North American premiere.

"He recalled an audience member

"coming around
to the dressing rooms later

"to congratulate the lead actor

"and that he was
introduced to her.

"Her name was Diane.

"And she loved the show so much

"that she came back
twice more during the run."

I think Diane

fell in love with...
Not with me,

but with the character
I was playing on stage.

The character is something
that is so different from me,

it's such an exciting
and dominating character.

You can't take your eyes
off that character.

That's absolutely
nothing like me at all,

but you can see
why I would want to play it.

That Diane turns up to watch
a performance by an actor

and as she watches
that performance,

she sees that person

is exactly what I'd been
looking for all my life,

somebody exciting,
somebody full of intrigue.

That's what I'd been
looking for all my life.

"She was an actress herself

"and few months later they'd play
together in The Condemned of Altona.

"And that changed their lives
irrevocably."

Diane was playing
the part of the actress

and me as the German officer.

Once again, this is
a fascinating character.

So, even in that play,
we were playing two roles

rather than Michael and Diane.

And they talked
at a party afterwards

and they got into
some weird discussion

where Dad offered her
a drive home

and Mum said okay.

Yes,
I did offer to drive her home.

I said, "I got a Mercedes-Benz
sports car sitting outside

"if you want a ride home."

Dad admitted that
he didn't have a car there.

In fact, he didn't even drive.

And Mum was the one
that had a car there.

So somehow, in the story, they're both
lying to go home with each other.

"And then they made love,
Mick and Diane."

"Now, let me continue by telling you
another from Michael's artistic pursuits.

"At about the time
of his marriage to Diane,

"Michael decided
to purchase a movie camera

"and to record their belated
honeymoon in England.

"Watching it, several features
of his work become apparent."

Every time you see a group
of people in my Super 8 movies,

every time you see a few people,
you get interested,

the camera goes away and looks
at the roof of a house or something

or disappears
in the distance, so...

This is my way of filming,
was not to include people too much.

"I gather that Diane
did once say that on that trip

"he spent more time gripping at the
camera than he did holding her."

I had a feeling they
were incredibly different people.

It was sort of amazing that they
were together in some ways,

'cause they were
so, so different.

I mean,
as excitable that she was most of the time,

he was calm or seemed to be.

He was centered
and inside himself.

And she was so far
outside of herself

that sometimes
there was nothing inside.

Michael was a private person

and Diane was
not a private person.

She really lacked guile.

She did not have
two faces for the world.

I don't know if she showed
different faces to different people,

but I did sense that
she was a woman of secrets.

But they were artfully hidden.

I mean, they were
subtly hidden.

And because she had a
larger-than-life personality,

you didn't look
for the subtleties,

because there was the
razzle dazzle in front you.

One of her great strengths,

I think, was her vitality,

her constant determination
to live life to its fullest.

I don't have anything like that
in my character whatsoever.

I love to play it as an act,

but I can't live it
as a human being.

The idea of me jumping out
of bed in the mornings,

running around and doing things
like Diane used to do...

Diane would be doing
10 things at the same time,

I'd be doing half of one thing,
you know?

Diane was so attracted
to his mind,

but she yearned for more
demonstrative affection from him.

Dad says that Mum wanted
to have sex a lot more than he did.

When I ask him specific questions, like,
about oral sex,

Dad tells me that
that is something that

was thought of as something
they did in France.

I sure have never thought
of my dad as a prude.

He will talk about anything and
he is not shocked by anything,

but it's kind of amazing
to think of, that,

you know, oral sex
was something that...

Maybe it was,
I don't know, but...

But it's amazing to think that,

uh, you know that that was
something that was so

off the radar for him.

So, I used to think...
I used to think

a night with a dead wombat

might turn out to be
more exciting

than a night with me after you've
been with me for 12 years.

So, who knows?

I mean, I was a good husband,
I think, in a providing way,

in terms of my contribution
to the household running.

Could you give me a list of the
duties of the average husband

so I could
do a check-off?

She did all the cooking, all the cleaning,
all the taking care of the kids.

He didn't take
any responsibility for us,

he didn't make decisions
about us, you know?

And he thought that
he had to be responsible.

So he gave up acting

and started working at Manufacturers
Life Insurance Company.

Mum was frustrated by Michael.

She saw Michael as
an extremely talented man,

a talented writer,
a very talented actor, singer.

I think in my mind it was,
"Look at how hard I have worked

"with very little
God-given talent.

"And look at this man,
who is so talented in so many ways,

"and he's throwing it away."

He was a good writer,
but he didn't pursue it.

And we all encouraged him.

He just didn't.

She got frustrated with him because
she felt that he was enormously talented

and was too willing
to just do things

for the small audience of
he and Diane and the family.

And while she knew him so well,

she just so enjoyed
his company.

And I think as women
we do that right,

is that we choose
the person we're in love with,

or sometimes it chooses us.

And then there's
the rest of the life.

In 1978,

she came to me one day
and she said,

"I've been offered a part

"in a play called, oh, Toronto which
is going to take place in Montreal."

"Would you mind if I went off to
Montreal for a couple of months?

"Could you look after the kids
while I'm gone?"

"In truth,
he was more than agreeable.

"He was delighted.

"Like many marriages,
perhaps most,

"this one had grown stale.

"The passion of early year
or two had long died.

"Their lifestyles were
totally different.

"Diane loved parties,
Michael, solitude.

"Michael loved being alone
and listening to music,

"Diane danced to it.

"She'd often complained of his
coldness towards her

"and not just in the marriage bed,
but in all their time together.

"He knew he disappointed her,

"that he had never lived up to her
earlier vision of Mick and Franz

"and he knew he never could."

Dad, can you just
take that line back?

Yeah.

God, you pick up all these little mistakes,
don't you, now?

"That he had never lived up to her
earlier visions of Mick and Franz

"and he knew he never could.

"So when Diane mentioned
the possibility of acting

"for six or seven
weeks in Montreal,

"Michael was quietly ecstatic

"and openly enthusiastic."

Part of going to Montreal
and doing the play

was trying to sort of
get out of her life.

She wanted to live in
Montreal or somewhere else.

She always thought Toronto
was such a reserved city

and everybody was so,

you know, work ethic,

people lived to work
instead of work to live,

which has always been more
the Montreal kind of thing.

So it was like a way of her
getting away from that

and doing what she really wanted to do,
which was stage.

Can you talk about the play

that you were in together
in Montreal?

Can you describe
what it was about?

It was a play called Toronto

and it was about a bunch
of people auditioning...

I can't remember the...

I can't remember what she did

in this play.

It was about as unmemorable
as they get.

The guy had written
a lot of great plays

and I guess
he needed some money.

He was writing about his
experiences in the theater world.

I played the director
of his new play

and Wayne Robson
and Geoffrey Bowes

played actors
who came in to audition

and Diane played a reviewer.

I said,
"Diane, you're like a kid

"running at the door
for recess going,

"'Yay!'"

I guess it was her first time on the
road on her own for a long time.

In the dressing room,
on the stage and then going out afterwards.

She said, "Come down
and have a visit

"and come and see the play."

During the time that I was there,
what was interesting,

I remember her talking
about Michael a lot,

because Michael was writing
her passionate letters

and, being Diane,
she read some of it to me

and I'm going, "But, Diane,
this is private."

But the thing
about Diane is that

what was happening in
her life at the moment

was what she talked about.

As she talked, it felt like
this was everything,

that it was
totally confessional

and that you were hearing
the full story of her life,

but I've realized now
it must have been a part.

So what I'm saying
is that she had secrets.

"Michael visited her after
the second rehearsal week

"and found her
more alive and happy

"than she had been
for many years.

"He stayed with her two nights

"and they made love again with all the
passion that separation often brings.

"Life was beginning again.

"Oh, you know all about it and
you know it's a delusion.

"'It's all done with mirrors, mate, '
they used to tell me.

"Yes, the mirrors.

"The mirrors in which
you can see yourself clearly.

"The mirrors through which you
can see what you really look like."

"Diane came back
to her Toronto and Michael,

"and went full-time
into her casting business

"with Johnny as her assistant.

"Her relationship,
on a sexual level at least, with Michael

"was really blooming again,

"and after the long separation,

"they were
almost like newlyweds.

"A few weeks later,
she saw her doctor

"who confirmed her pregnancy.

"When she came home to tell Michael,
she was clearly upset.

"I have talked to the doctor
and the doctor says it's a bit dangerous

"because of my age."
I said, "Oh."

"So what are you gonna do?"
And she said, "I think, I...

"Should seriously consider
having an abortion."

I said, "Well,
if that's the way you feel about it...

"That's okay with me,
this is your decision.

"It's your body
not mine."

"Diane said that

"she felt she should
have the baby aborted

"as they could
scarcely afford another.

"He was disappointed, because he did
love children, his in particular,

"but he went along
with the abortion idea.

"Diane's brother, Bob
was a doctor."

I do recall,

being at the office,
actually, um,

when I got a call from her.

She was quite desperate
because she was about 42

and said that she was pregnant,
that it wasn't planned,

that she was desperately
worried about Down syndrome.

And at the time I was,
I think, a bit more

pro-life than pro-choice.

So when your mother called,

I believe that I
steered her towards

Diane did arrange to
go to the hospital for an abortion.

And we were actually on the way
down when she changed her mind.

She suddenly said,
"I can't go ahead with this."

That is amazing, isn't it?

I mean, how close

we were to you never existing.

Yeah.

It's almost enough to make you
anti-abortionist, isn't it?

She seemed sort of excited,

because it was something new.

She just loved new, you know?

New is what she was all about.

I mean, if there's
such a thing as, like,

in that spiritual sense,

old souls and young souls,

she was a really young soul I would say.

I don't think your mother was

elated that she was pregnant.

I do not think so.
No, I do not think so.

I do not.

I do not.

"Diane and Michael did not act
together again until the play Filumena

"by Eduardo de Filippo.

"Diane was to play
the title role

"Someone had seen them together
in The Condemned of Altona

"and had decided
it would be nice

"to see them together
on stage once more.

"It was a fine gesture

"and they were delighted
to do the piece."

Filumena was the play

that became the movie,
Marriage Italian Style,

with Marcello Mastroianni
and Sophia Loren.

It's a fascinating story

because they've lived together
and she wants him to marry her.

She, the Sophia Loren part,
has been a prostitute,

and somehow,
over that period of time,

she has had three sons.

He doesn't even know
she has three sons.

And she says to him, "I need to get
you to legitimize my children.

"Will you marry me?" And he says,
"Why would I marry you?"

And she says...

"Domenico tries to
find out which of the lads is his,

"but he totally fails,

"since each is like him
in some ways,

"and completely different
in others.

"In desperation,
Domenico marries Filumena

"so that his true son can
have the family he needs

"and the future that one
of his blood deserves.

"Filumena's final words are,

"'Children are children,

"'and they are all equal.'

"And so Diane and Michael played
out their final act together,

"though not knowing
that it was just that."

Did anyone know
she was going to die?

What? Yeah,
we all knew.

Did anyone know she was
gonna die? Well...

When she had cancer?
Mmm-hmm.

Yeah? Did you know?

No, you didn't know.
- No.

She was just a mess.

She was very, very,
very frightened.

With so much energy,

all of her energy
was going into her

uncertainty and her fear
and unhappiness.

And when I hugged her,
it was like holding a...

I don't know if you've ever
held a bird in your hand.

You know, it was terrified and
you'd just feel its heartbeat.

Do you know what I mean?
- Mmm.

She was just shaking.

Did you get the sense
that she knew she was dying?

Yeah. Yeah.

She knew.

I don't think
Diane ever fully realized.

We never talked about
any of the things

I mean,
when she came out of that last operation,

I came home one day and she
was out in the driveway,

scraping down a table so that she could
repaint it for the house, you know?

Um... So I think,

she didn't have any real sense.

I said to her,

"What on earth are you doing
out here doing the table?"

And she said, "Oh, well...

"We got to get all these tables done,
then we can have 'em all

"varnished the same color
and everything."

I mean, that's not
a person who's...

As it was, turned out,
sort of four or five weeks away from death.

That's a person
who's still planning her...

How the house
is gonna look. You know?

As it progressed,
she was more and more tired

and the treatments were
harder and harder on her.

It was, uh...

Man, she fought
like crazy, you know?

What was it... Like, can you describe
her memorial service at all?

It just seemed like a
really big memorial service

and I just remember, like,
a lot of the people that spoke

were, sort of,
Canadian celebrity people,

not necessarily the people that
were closest to Mom in her life,

but I remember thinking
as I was watching it,

"Gee, it's a good
memorial service,"

and I think it's kind of nice to be
in show business when you die

because the people that speak are, like,
good at speaking.

She was very, very popular so,

as you can imagine,
there were many, many people there,

but, to me, it was
some kind of production.

I felt like I was at
a big play or something.

I think in retrospect,
after Mum died,

Dad was depressed.

You know, he seemed very rational
about it as he always does,

but the whole thing about him
playing solitaire all the time

and being even more
isolated than usual,

all suggest that he'd
just sort of shut down.

I mean, going to visit him when
he would be playing solitaire

and wouldn't stop playing.

As he just wanted to
shut the world off.

It was very strange.

It was sort of like walking
into a home of utter neglect,

and almost disuse.

And I remember Dad, um...

Just smoking all day.

And I remember him being
very angry and upset about,

"You're not taking care
of the dog,"

which was a little bit weird,
'cause you sort of seemed

like a little kid that nobody
was taking care of.

It really, really
knocked me out.

And the other children
had gone away.

Suddenly there was just
you and I left.

Luckily, I had you there to look after
as well as to look after me, you know?

You were...
What, were you 11 then?

The next few years our relationship,
I think, was a very, very...

A great period from my life.

It certainly was an unusual
relationship, too,

in the sense,
it's not very often

that a father and a daughter
are so close,

because of circumstances.

And so in a way,
I felt closer to you

than I'd ever felt about
the other children,

because there'd always been
Diane there as well.

Suddenly, there was myself
and this little girl.

Four or five very
close years we had together then.

"Mike remembers a
time or two after Diane had died

"when the children would
come up for a Sunday dinner

"to join Sarah and him.

"And he remembers how,
one day, someone said that Sarah

"did not look at all
like her father.

"It's time to go back
many years once more.

"Johnny was working in the living
room on a list for a casting call

"and his mother
was alone in the den.

"Then he thought he heard
something that sounded like distress,

"and found himself being unable
to resist moving a little closer.

"He stopped.

"And there was no doubt
that she was crying."

What I overheard was Mom
saying that she was pregnant

and that she was
considering an abortion.

And that she wasn't sure
who the father was.

But I remember Mom,
whoever she was talking to on the phone,

talking about this big weekend
that she and Michael had had

and how it reinvigorated
the relationship

and he started to write her
all these love letters

after the weekend
that they had in Montreal.

It was clear that you had been
conceived while Mom was in Montreal.

"He listened for a while longer

"then hurried guiltily back to
his work in the living room.

"He said nothing.

"And so the event passed

"and John kept
it all to himself,

"while an entire generation
went to their graves."

I guess I kind of stopped
thinking about it because,

The family was
big enough mess already.

Anyways, years later,
when I was in my 20s,

you know,
long after Mom had died,

Anne Tate mentioned something
about somebody in Montreal

when Mum was in Montreal
for that period of time.

Johnny once led me

into talking about that,

because I think I was
quite tight-lipped about it.

I thought that this actor in the
play might have been the father.

Your father, let's say it.

It makes it sound as if she
was terribly promiscuous,

which, in fact,
I don't think she was.

But I think she did consider

that it was possible that
it could be this other guy.

Because we used to often have
dinner together on weekends,

probably Johnny started
by saying,

"You don't look
much like your father."

I think it was Johnny.

I want to say it was Johnny.

And, actually now,
in retrospect that I know

that Johnny was the first of us who knew,
it must have been Johnny.

I stupidly mentioned it
to Mark, I thought.

Um...

Uh, my lawyer has said I don't
have to talk to you and so...

I'm not gonna say anything more.

I remember Johnny saying

that someone thought that
your father might be

someone that Mom had
acted with in a play.

And I told him
not to say anything to anyone,

but then they turned
into a joke.

And I did not participate
in the joke, did I?

I don't think I ever did.
- I don't know.

I remember we talked about
how you didn't look like Dad

and Dad joked about it.

I always thought,

"She does look like me,
she's got that little straight nose.

"Yeah, definitely,
this is all nonsense, but it's fun.

"Who do you think your father is
this week, Sarah?"

The joke got bigger and bigger

because we'd each compare you
with one of these three actors.

"They all knew of the three
actors in question,

"and had much fun
with the characteristics

"that they had in common
with Sarah.

"Sarah laughed.

"They all laughed and the comparisons
became a recurring source of amusement.

"Was it Tom
or Wayne or Geoff?"

Could you just take back that one line?
- Yeah.

"Was it Tom
or Wayne or Geoff?"

Do you remember the
name of the actor in the play

who she thought might be my father?

Yes, of course
I remember his name!

Do you want me to
talk about that?

If...
If you're comfortable.

Well, it depends on whether he's
comfortable, I would think.

I mean, it was Geoff Bowes.

The thinking was that
it was Geoff Bowes.

There was, I guess,
an actor named Geoff Bowes.

Geoff Bowes.

That's what the film
is gonna be like.

Geoff Bowes!
Geoff Bowes!

Johnny pretended,
that she'd mentioned

Geoff Bowes and an affair
with him and so I said,

"Oh, well, okay. I'll tell you.
Yes, she did tell me."

What do you remember me saying?

Uh... I trust you more than
I trust myself right now!

At that point I opened
Face to Face with Talent

and looked at
Geoff Bowes' picture,

and thought, "Oh, yeah, for sure.
Look how much he looks like him.

"And he's short
and he has red hair."

And you were born
with bright red hair.

I instantly flashed back to Mom

making a huge deal about
you having red hair.

It's like, you know when you're lying
about something, you overplay it?

She had gone on and on about,
"How weird it is that Sarah has red hair!

"It's so odd. Well, I guess my
cousin Margaret Anne has red hair."

And that struck me and then
I saw him with the red hair

and I really did think... Yeah,
I really thought it was true.

So at some point,
I think I did start to believe it was true.

And thought someone
should say something to you.

I feel like we all had a
discussion about it at some point,

we all being everyone but you.

And I think Johnny said
I had a big mouth

and that I was probably
gonna tell you or something.

And I was saying,
"I think we should tell her."

"Now, I think we should leap
forward to a point several years

"after Diane's death,

"when the jokes with her
family around the dinner table

"were not so funny.

"And since it went further

"and named the member
of the cast of Toronto,

"who was her possible parent,

"she decided,
it was time to take the plunge.

"She phoned Geoff and asked
if they could meet."

You called,

and we arranged to meet,

and you wanted to know about
that time in Montreal.

"Oh, boy. I hope that isn't
too forward or something."

And I remember recounting
some of the same tales.

I hadn't really thought
about Diane for a long time,

so I recall being pretty sad.

So, since I was 18,

there was this rumor that you
were my biological father.

It's like, how that rumor began,
where did it come from?

And I just wanted to
ask you about that.

Was there ever anything romantic
in your relationship with Mom

or was it always
just friendship?

Uh, it was friendship.
Hmm.

Um, yeah.
I remember you saying...

Being surprised at you saying,

"It's common knowledge
in my family that...

"That my mum
was in love with you."

And I was taken aback at that.

Uh... I was touched.

But, uh, yeah... Um...

"Everything Geoff said
suggested that he was certain

"that Diane had stayed
faithful to Michael,

"but that seed of doubt had
grown even larger in her mind.

"She thought he was a lovely,
open and generous person,

"and yet she felt
he was hiding something.

"But, once again,
she let the story lie.

"And so the conundrum
remained just that.

"One day she chanced to meet
a Montreal producer in Toronto,

"and mentions that she is going
to Montreal in couple of days,

"and the producer says,

"'While you're there, you might
want to meet up with Harry Gulkin.

"'He's an important
film producer

"'that your mother worked with
as a casting director,

"'and can probably tell you more
about your mother in those days.'

"And Sarah is very pleased. She always
likes to hear about her mother's life

"before Sarah's birth.

"And she also realized
that this Harry

"may be able to shed more light
on the possibility of her mother

"having had an affair
with a member of the cast.

"And so, she phones
Harry and asks

"if she could get together
with him for a chat."

"Hi, Sarah, and a warm welcome.

"Arnie Gelbart told me
you would like to see me.

"That's good, because
I would love to see you.

"I can be reached in my office this
afternoon or email me here during the day."

"I always remember my mum talking
about you with such affection.

"Would you be free at 3:45 to
meet at Excentris for a coffee?"

"He agrees,

"and a couple of days later
they meet in a restaurant.

"What happens next is what I can
remember of Sarah's relating the event."

I made my way to the
Melies Cafe and there you were.

Sat down and began to chat
and you said that

you had wanted to meet me because
your mother had talked about me a lot.

I remember we talked
about a million things.

You told me how you
had quit school at 15,

and that one of the dominating reasons was

your politics at the time,

and your desire to join
the class struggle.

That struck me as
very interesting

because I had done
exactly the same thing.

As we became very close
during that conversation,

we found a whole number
of things in common,

in terms of feelings,
reactions, response.

And I remember you
saying as soon as you met him,

you felt at ease
with him in a certain way.

And because you felt so at ease with him,
you had decided to ask him

if he knew anything about
this rumor about

Geoff Bowes being your dad.

You asked him the question,
"Have you ever heard anything about my mum

"having had an affair
while she was in Montreal?"

You sort of looked up and you said,
"Do you think it was Geoff Bowes?"

I said, "No."

She said,
"Do you know who it was?"

I said, "Yes."

"No, I know that
Geoff Bowes isn't your dad."

And you said,
"How do you know that?"

And he said,
"'Cause I'm your dad."

He said it's possible,
not probable.

I think those were the exact words you
said to me on the phone, were they?

"I thought that's why
you wanted to speak to me,

"because your mom
and I had an affair."

"In fact, she had
an affair with me."

And I said, "Me."

So you stopped for a moment.

Then you said,
"Do you still think so?"

And I said,
"After talking to you,

"and looking at you for
close to three hours, yes."

I said, "What do you think?"

And you said,
"Yeah, I think so, too."

"Sarah is speechless.

"She's come all this way
to find out about Geoff,

"and now she's sitting
with her mother's lover."

It was late February,

of 1978.

I was sort of mildly depressed.

Mid-winter, nothing to do,
living alone.

And I decided to go
to the Centaur Theatre

to see the latest production
of David Fennario.

So I went down there, and after a minute,
as the cast came on stage,

I was transfixed by this glorious
lady who was on stage, you know?

Really just bowled over.

When the play was over,

I still had certain reserves
of shyness,

which still remains,
so I didn't go backstage or anything.

And I decided to have a nightcap
at what I considered then

my geriatric bar, the Troika.

I ordered a drink and they had a
sort of schmaltzy Russian trio,

and after about five minutes,
who walks in

but this lady who'd been on stage
with some other cast members.

So, I figured,
"Oh, my God."

And I sort of sidled
into the middle of the group,

and, you know,
I was able to inveigle myself

into the conversation
to some degree.

And I did try to separate
Diane from the group.

But after about an hour,
it really was hopeless.

It wasn't gonna happen.

It wasn't gonna happen.

When Diane left the Troika,
I walked with them and with her

and I was trying again to
kind of separate Diane.

And she said, "No." She says,
"But we can meet tomorrow night."

We met every night after that

for the remainder of the run,

and there was a very strong
mutual attraction.

Very, very powerful thing.

Harry would be down
at the bottom of the stairs.

We were in the upstairs theater and
our dressing room was up there.

And it made me think
of stage-door Johnny's

from those old
Broadway movies, right?

And I remember once
he asked, "Is Diane there?

"Could you go
and tell her that I'm here?"

You know, bound back upstairs, say,
"Harry's here."

"Okay." And then run
back down the stairs.

Harry developed this great,
grand passion for her

and I think of Harry
turning to me and saying,

"Isn't she wonderful?
Isn't she amazing?"

And I just found this
highly amusing

because I understood
that he was a super smart,

sophisticated man with all kind of
connections to the film business

but his main topic
of conversation with me

was the wonderfulness
of Diane, which was...

I agreed with him,
but it becomes thin

in terms of conversation material,
after a while.

When you're in love like that,
you become utterly selfish.

Hmm.

You know, like, nothing that's happening
to anyone else matters at all,

or is a matter of any consideration.
You just

end up, sort of...

Focused, intense,

and just wanting to consume

the object of your love,
and nothing else

exists.

I visited once
during the rehearsal period,

and then I think I went up
for the opening night.

I guess Harry would
have been there.

But he wasn't sleeping with her that night,
because I was.

It's funny isn't it?
I'm at that party,

a couple of women came up to me

and started hectoring me about
how badly I treated Diane.

"You really put her down
an awful lot, you know."

I was quite stunned.

Nobody before had ever

come right out and said that.

I think certainly I began to
think through this conversation.

"Yeah, they're probably right.

"I am an awful person for putting her
down and if she lacks confidence,

"it may well be because of some
things that I have said in the past."

And suddenly I thought, "Oh.

"I wonder if they
knew about it."

Well, Diane had probably
talked to them about it.

That she was thinking
of leaving me

'cause I was not much
good for her confidence.

And maybe they were sort of
half-warning me of what was going on.

Before she went back
to Toronto,

uh, I asked her to move to
Montreal and to bring her kids here.

It was complex and difficult.

She had this passionate attachment
to her kids and to her husband

and she also had this
attachment to me.

And I had an attachment
which was completely crazy.

I was besotted,
just utterly besotted.

And she was so
full of life, you know?

And you just wanted
to be there.

You just wanted to be there,
I mean it was... It was wild.

How it would have been
had we been living together?

Well, I really have no idea,
- Hmm.

You don't know, like,
what kind of clashes can develop,

although I suspect that
it would have been okay.

I know it would have been okay.

Um...

Uh, both of us,

both Harry and I
met a person who was, uh,

bored with her life
as it currently was

and wanted something
more exciting. Um...

Did she talk at all
about her first marriage?

Except that it was very acrimonious
and exceedingly difficult.

And her great distress

over losing the kids.

Can you tell the story of
Mum's relationship with your dad?

Uh, well, they were married,

and I don't know how deep
her feelings were for him,

but his feelings were deep.

And it's awful to be
in a relationship

where one person
loves the other

much more than
the other person loves them

I think one person
loves the other person more,

but hopefully it's close

and hopefully it goes up and
down a little bit, you know?

But it seems to me
you never can both equally

love each other
the same amount.

It's unfortunate,
but it's just sort of a fact of life.

George was
the kind of guy that,

that Mum's parents would
have been very happy with.

He had money and
he had a good job,

so my sense has always been
that she married him early

and she married him because he was the
kind of person she was supposed to marry.

You know,
and I think my dad was really controlling

and my mum wanted to sort of
get out from underneath that.

She was always trying to get
out from under anything

that she felt controlled her or made her
feel like her life was very regulated.

I mean, we all feel that way.

Like, I feel that way
every garbage day,

like, every time I have to take out
the garbage, it's like, "Oh, my God."

It just makes you realize
you're just marking time

and it's just one of
those things that, um...

In fact, I make my boyfriend
take the garbage out now.

Then I don't have to
think about it.

The trigger, the thing that compelled
her to leave then and there

was that I think
she really fell in love

and maybe realized, for the first time
in her life, what her life could be.

I think she saved herself.

I think she grabbed on
to a lifebuoy.

I think she made
a choice to live.

I really, really do and, um...

That was with Michael.

She left my dad
in the middle of a fight,

threw her wedding ring
in the snow, walked out

and then came back
the next day to get us

and my dad had changed
all the locks.

Ultimately, George got
custody of the kids

and that was unheard of
in the '60s

And it was, apparently,
the first time in Canada

that a woman had ever
lost custody of the kids

and it was because
she left for another man

and she wasn't "lady-like."

I missed that line.

I remember all of a sudden
my mum not being around

and I could remember
adults crying

and I couldn't believe
adults would be crying.

Seeing my mum with her knees
pulled up to her chest

just rocking back and forth.

I knew as a child,
the worst thing has happened,

I'm not sure what it is,
but the worst thing is happening.

And I knew that
there were other people

who were gonna decide
what happened to me

and what happened to my mum.

It... I had no control.

'Cause had we been asked we would
have said we want to live with our mum.

For sure, both of us
would've. At that age

who, you know...
That's what you want.

We'd have visitation
with my mum once a month,

but we lived with my dad

and there were
couple of caregivers.

One of them was an older woman

who was physically abusive.

A successive stepmother
who abused us,

you can keep this in.
I don't care.

I remember when Mum
used to drive us home,

when she'd say goodbye to us,
all the time, she would cry and cry

and I remember years later
reminiscing back on that,

how she would cry and cry
and we'd be crying,

then we'd have to say goodbye
and go into the house

and it was like
we didn't want to leave

'cause we wanted
to be with her.

Hmm.

But I would think that
would just eat away at you

every day of your life,
right? That you missed

so many moments with your kids.

And, you know,
so that's the happy stuff, right?

You'd miss the happy stuff,

but into that,
that you'd miss...

Uh, that she would have
found out, ultimately,

that she not only missed that,
but she wasn't there to...

Um,
she wasn't there to protect them.

Um...

It's really bad
being a parent, stupid,

'cause you're...
I mean, really, you know...

You really, uh,

thought of your
kid getting hurt

and you not being there
to protect them.

You know that's gonna happen,

but, um, Mum must have thought,

like, "What did I do wrong
that led to this?" That...

So I think being back
must have been terrible

and must have made her
sad all the time, right?

And, you know, maybe that's also what I,
sort of, pieced together and try...

Making this assumption, that she was
just keeping busy to forget the pain.

Did you get a sense that she
felt guilty about the loss of her kids?

Yes. Oh, yes.

I think that it lodged a certain
level of insecurity into her,

which I think had some bearing

on her decision not to

come live with me.

I can't imagine that
she didn't struggle with it,

but there was the fact that there was
a house and a bunch of kids living in it,

that would have kept her and I
guess she would have felt that

that was the right choice
for her children,

and maybe for her, too.
Maybe she still hoped that

her and Dad would fall in
love again or something.

A few months after we
had first made contact in Montreal,

she phoned me and she told
me that she was pregnant.

And she said that she thought
that I was the father.

What she communicated to me,
what I got from her was almost a thrill.

So in terms of the relationship
with Michael and the house,

In terms of the relationship with me,
she was thrilled.

I thought that would help me in my cause,
in my pursuit.

I mean, quite apart from
the anticipation of a child,

I felt, well, this is a quiver in my bow,
you know?

I mean, we have sort of more
than an affair to deal with,

we have a child.

She sent me that picture
holding you as a tiny infant.

And then she sent me a picture by
yourself when you were one year old.

Subsequently, business brought
me to Toronto quite frequently,

so I was there quite often
and I would see Diane.

She would come to Montreal
reasonably often.

Diane would introduce me
to all her friends,

so our affair was
a pretty open thing,

because you need that, too,
and somehow you want that

in terms of a love affair,
you need witnesses.

You need witnesses
which, sort of, confirm you.

I think it was...
It was very discreet.

I don't think it was
really common knowledge.

I think there were
a number of people who knew,

but nobody ever
talked about it.

I told her I would never discuss
it with anyone and I never did.

I promised,
and she was my buddy,

and there was no way on God's
earth I was gonna talk about it.

I couldn't do that to her.

So there was
this strange situation

of an openness
of an ongoing affair

which went on for,
I believe, a couple of years

in Montreal and in Toronto,

and yet no possibility of it ever
developing into anything more.

What became clear
at a certain point,

was that you were gonna grow up

and there was not only no point,
that it would be absolutely a mistake

to cast a shadow on that.

She operated
on all these levels.

She was loyal
on all these levels.

I think that she had
the strength and the ability

to keep all
her loyalties going,

I mean,
the distance didn't help.

I mean, that, uh...

But on the other hand,
to some degree, intensified it

because, you know,
there's the longing that was involved

and I think that we remained
in love for a very long time.

I remember at Diane's funeral,

they said, "You know,
anybody can speak,

And I said, "That, I thought,
would be very stupid.

"In what capacity I should speak?"
So I didn't.

When it was over, I went to say my
farewells and goodbyes to the family,

and I went to put my arms
around Michael,

and I felt that he froze
in my arms,

that he was uncomfortable
with that.

That's what made me think that

perhaps Michael really knew,
perhaps she told him.

What?

Do you remember
meeting Harry there?

I don't think he was there,
was he? SARAH: Think so, yeah.

Was he there?
- Yeah.

Oh, no, I...
I didn't meet him there.

Oh.

I remember Anne Tait,
who was the Master of Ceremonies.

She was speaking of Diane
and then she said,

"And you know,
sometimes Diane was a flirt,

"but her heart
belonged to Michael."

On the way out
after the ceremony,

your aunt, Anne,
Michael's sister, she said to me,

"You see, Harry?
Her heart really belonged to Michael."

So that sort of put paid to my
sense of any further contact

with the Polley family,
if I ever had had any sense that I should.

I figured I really better back right off,
which I did,

I found her dying upsetting, then I found
my inability, in those circumstances,

to do a proper farewell
and to be part of it,

something that I felt
bad about and regretted.

Mmm.

Whenever Harry spoke of Diane,

from the beginning,
he mentioned that she had had a daughter

as a result of their affair,

but all those years that he never saw you,
it was never discussed.

Whenever I'd see articles
about you or anything,

I'd say, "Harry,
did you see the article?"

Just so that he'd be aware
of what was happening.

But the day when he went down
to meet you and came home,

it was like the world changed.

He was so happy

he could have
a relationship with you.

So his whole world changed
after that cafe meeting with you.

Through all the years that
that never happened,

he never complained,
he never said, "I wish."

I don't even think
he said it to himself.

You know, he'd just,
"If it's not gonna happen,

"if I can't do
anything about it,

"I don't see it, it does not exist."
That's the way he lives.

We began what was almost a
frantic series of email exchanges

about continuing the encounter.

There was an intensity,

just really
an incredible intensity

of affection, of love,
I mean, it was...

Well, having gotten
to know you,

much of that has dissipated, you know,
it's gone away, but...

"Hi, Harry,
it was great to meet you.

"A complete pleasure
and quite an occasion.

"I had no idea
it would be so eventful.

"It was really just an afterthought to
ask you about my mother's personal life.

"It just came out of feeling very
comfortable with you and thinking,

"'Why not ask him
what he knows?'

"And then, well,
what a delight to get so much information.

"I hope we can stay in touch.

"It was so great
to spend some time.

"Now I'll watch
the documentary about you.

"What a handy tool
in a situation like this,

"to have an educational DVD on your
previously unknown biological father."

Making his way from
communism to commerce to culture,

Harry's many lives
sometimes feel

like the cross-work patches
of a harlequin costume.

When I first met Harry,
he was a film producer

and Lies My Father Told Me had
won Hollywood's Golden Globe

for Best Foreign Film.

The script by Ted Allan
was nominated for an Oscar.

Lies My Father Told Me gave the
fledgling Canadian film industry

artistic and
professional credentials.

"Hello, again, Sarah.

"I confess our encounter
has stayed up

"for most of my
consciousness, too.

"The emotions are conflicting.

"Joy of discovery,
sweet memory obscured by sadness,

"and some concern as to how this
reasonable, but unproven, assumption

"might affect you,
as well as your family.

"We really need to take
some time out to discuss this.

"Meanwhile, I suspect
it would be prudent

"not to broadcast
this putative discovery.

"In that respect, you would not be
following in Diane's footsteps.

"She was apparently
very pleased with the idea

"and didn't hesitate
to share it with some others.

"What is beyond dispute,

"is that we have become
close and loving friends."

"Hi, there.
I would love to discuss this some more.

"It's been interesting talking
to my brother, Johnny, about it.

"We're both tremendously
afraid of my dad finding out.

"It would destroy him, I think.

"So I'm quite resolved to not let
him know about our conversation.

"However, I have been thinking that
I'd really love to know for myself.

"I'm not sure why,
but it feels like an odd question

"to not have answered
once it's been raised."

"Now was the moment
when Sarah had suggested

"that a DNA test would settle
the matter once and for all.

"Harry resisted and said
he'd like to think it over.

"He was worried what effect it
would have on Michael and his family

"if it turned out
that Harry was the father.

"And he wasn't too sure
how he would feel

"if Michael turned out to be
the sperm donor.

"To save all hurts,
why not leave things as they are?"

Dad, can you take that line back again?
- Yeah.

"To save all hurts,

"why not leave things
as they are?"

The weekend you came
to do the DNA test,

you walked in the door
and it was kind of like,

"Well, let's put the spit on the
stick first and get it over with."

I think it was one of
the first things we did.

You came in, you sat down,
get out the stick, you both spit.

You put 'em in and so we got that
out of the way with lots of laughter.

And then, I think you were
staying in our office,

and Cathy had given Harry a
picture of herself with a big smile

and I had put it on his desk

and you look at the picture
and you said,

"Oh, my God,
we've got the same mouth!"

So I ran in
and I looked at the picture

and I looked at your smile and I
looked at Cathy's and I thought,

"You know, this is gonna work.
This is the same family."

"On Monday,
January the 22nd, 2007,

"Sarah's life changed forever.

"She opened the registered
letter and read the results.

"It recorded that Harry Gulkin

"was Sarah Polley's
biological father

"and that the test results
were 99 % certain."

99.97 %.

Sure, that was the level
of probability.

"I won't even try to guess
what her thoughts were,

"as she digested
that stunning discovery."

Twenty-eight years of
sitting on something like that

And having the ability
to know it indeed is true

was just sheer delight,
exuberance.

"It's 99.9997 sure,

"I'm her father, yay!"

I use the expression
"the honeymoon period."

Nothing but,
"Isn't life wonderful?"

"Hi, Sarah. I want to get up
to Toronto as soon as feasible

"during one of
the next few weekends

"so that I can introduce Cathy
to her kid sister,

"It is understood that all of this will
be done with the understanding

"that the news is not
for general consumption.

"As for me,
my heart is dancing.

"Sarah, for me, you're the bearer
and the incarnation of pure joy.

"Love, Harry... Daddy."

I opened the door,
you were at the door.

And you were wearing the
identical sweatshirt I was wearing.

I have yet to see anyone
else wear that sweatshirt.

And then, of course, you smiled and
I saw the identical gummy grin

that I have, that I haven't seen
on very many people, either.

And I went, "Yeah, yeah,
we share DNA, that's for sure."

We express ourselves, I think,
in a really similar way, you know?

We wave our arms around,
we giggle a lot.

And then we realize that
we could talk our heads off

for hours and hours and hours and hours
and never run out of things to say.

"Hi, Harry.
Still thinking about the weekend.

"It was so great to meet Cathy
and spend some time with you.

"I think our Passover plans
are all in order.

"First time
I've ever written that.

"I'm having a strange onslaught
of guilt about my dad in all this.

"Sorting it through,
but it's not at all easy or uncomplicated,

"as you warned.

"I'm sure time will make
things clearer and easier.

"Looking forward
to seeing you again soon."

"Nothing could change
about her love for Michael

"or for those who had
suddenly become

"half-sisters
and half-brothers.

"But now she had an entirely
new half-family to get to know.

"Soon after reading
that registered letter,

"Sarah tells the news
to her brothers and sisters

"and the question of whether
I should be told is now raised.

"Seems that only Mark felt
I could handle it,

"but the consensus was that there
really was no need to risk upsetting me

"and life could continue
smoothly with me in ignorance."

Can you talk about the impact
that this news had on our family?

I don't get the sense
that much changed in our family.

Um... Oh, except that
we all got divorced.

Forgot about that. Whoops.
Um...

Except all three daughters
got divorced.

Yeah, good point.

Good point.

Yeah, God, I guess we all...

We all had interesting
reactions to it.

I feel like Mark
worked the other way.

He worked to solidify
the family he had.

And we three daughters
hightailed it.

So other than that, nothing.

It does sort of make you alter the
way that you look at your relationship.

A truth like that that opens up

kind of begets other truths.

And when you discover truths
like that,

how you think about truths
within that are concealed...

when you hear about someone
doing that and breaking the rules,

it breaks a kind of taboo
and it makes you think,

"We're all struggling with
the same kinds of problems

"and look at the mess
she got into

"trying to look like
everything was okay."

It seemed to me like it was
difficult for Mark, I think.

The biggest thing with him, I got,
was that he was disappointed in Mum.

Did you get that?
- Mmm-hmm.

I think that was it.

He was disappointed
and sort of surprised

and, um, I guess, I wasn't.

I think the main thing that I felt
after hearing the news about Harry,

was my feeling critical of Mum

she was reckless,
presumably in terms of birth control,

and ends up having a baby.

To think how crazy it was of
her to be that out of control.

It's a pretty scary scenario,

the idea of having a kid that belongs
to someone else, biologically,

and you have to try to carry
on your life hiding that fact

from the people
you are closest to.

The complexity of
lying about it

and the stress that that would
put on your life is a bit terrifying.

You know, it's a real lesson about birth
control when you're having affairs,

if nothing else.

Thanks a lot.

And then we'd all be
better off.

It's like this is It's a Wonderful Life.

Oh, no, it was the reverse.

"And Sarah went to Montreal
for the shoot of Mr. Nobody.

"Little time in all that
to consider

"whether she should tell me
of the DNA test.

"shooting a scene
as a young Neanderthal woman."

I often have this dream,

some prehistoric time.

I can hear you screaming...

I chased the bear.

And you're not afraid anymore.

"Sarah is sitting around
in her makeup

"and prosthetic
Neanderthal forehead,

"when she gets a phone call
from a reporter in Toronto.

"He tells her that he's
just heard the story of her

"discovering her
lost biological father

"and would like to run it
in his Toronto newspaper,

"with her reaction to
this amazing discovery.

"Sarah is appalled.

"She has not told me

"and, at this juncture,
is not sure that she ever will.

"She begins to cry and begs the
reporter not to run the story,

"because she's not yet
told her father.

"The reporter points out
this is a very happy story

"and there's no reason
to cry about it.

"But Sarah cries even harder.

"She runs out into the
street with her cellphone

"so that no one on the set would see her,

"and she crosses to a park
and seeks refuge on a bench.

"There she begs the man
not to go ahead,

"at least until she's
contacted her father.

"Sarah continued her cry for
some minutes after the call,

"and then she noticed a
considerable number of people

"were looking at her and
she recalls thinking

"how different Montrealers were
from their Toronto counterparts,

"who, observing a young
girl in tears,

"would have pretended
it never happened.

"She went back into the studio
to wash her tearstained face,

"and there was this
Neanderthal woman

"staring at her in the mirror.

"You see, you just can't keep

"the mask of comedy at bay.

"It watches old tragedy
doing its bit,

"and the moment
he lets his guard down,

"our comedy turns up the
corners of his mouth.

"But it was an alarming and
unforeseen turn of events

"and Sarah now knew that she
would have to tell me everything.

"Sarah was last
able to email me

"that she was leaving Montreal
on Thursday the 24th,

"and that she would like to come
around to my place for tea.

"Thursday came,
and I cleaned off a table,

"and made a bit of an effort to
clean up my living space a little.

"I even swatted my fly,

"Flies are frequently my
companions in this loft.

"They invariably arrive
only one at a time

"and I do my best to make
them feel comfortable.

"I told you already that I'm not
particularly sociable person.

"There's no doubt that I'm
more at ease with flies,

"at least solitary ones.

"I must confess that
I talk to them,

"and I'm not at all discomforted
by their failure to reply.

"And they're alone, like me.

"Sorry about this digression but
I hope it will give you some idea

"of the sacrifice I made
with my swatter

"before Sarah's arrival.

"And once she got here,
I made her sit down at the table

"and went right into my main
entertainment to the meal,

"which was the story
of Anna Christie

"and which led to my
demonstration of

"the acting of drunkenness
throughout the 20th century.

"The night before I'd seen Garbo in her
first talkie along with Marie Dressier,

"and I found her
acting fascinating.

"You know, I can
go on about these

"thespian matters
for some hours.

"So, the tea and
the rice pudding

"were already on the
table in front of Sarah

"before she got
a chance to speak."

And you were sitting on the
opposite side of the table from me,

but I didn't think you had
anything important to say.

So, when I finally got to the end of
my story you said something like,

"The reason I wanted to
come and see you is that

"I have something kind of
important to tell you."

Then you started
into the story,

and it took you quite a while
to get to the moment of truth,

if we can use that expression.

That great moment of truth.

When I suddenly realized,

"My God, what she's saying is,

"that I'm not actually her
biological father."

"I sat there in abject silence,

"as Sarah must have done when
she found that Harry was her father.

"Thoughts ran
in and out of my mind.

"'That's impossible.'

"'It couldn't be.'

"'I'm dreaming.'"

I was quite stunned.

My God,
all this stuff we've been

joking about for years,

is actually true.

It took me a while
to recover and...

And then I remember saying...

"Harry? Harry Gulkin?"

And then you
said something like,

"But it doesn't make any difference,
does it?"

"No, it doesn't make any difference at all.
Not to you and I,

"in terms of our relationship.

"I mean, it's still exactly the
same as it was before, but..."

Um...

And then I remember you
came around the table

and put your arm around
my shoulder and said,

"No, I'm so glad.
It doesn't make any difference, does it?"

And I was, uh...

I thought it was funny. You know,
that's the closest we've been

in quite a few years.

To put your arm
around me and say,

"Oh, Dad, it doesn't
make any difference."

And I suppose I asked you

a few more questions,
then, about it, because

it was a tremendous story
you were telling me

and so many little coincidences

and strange things
had happened.

And suddenly
I began to realize,

"My God, this is a great story.

"This is a great,
great story."

I mean, I enjoy writing

but I can't get started
'cause I never have any ideas

about what I want
to write about.

And since this came up,

it started me off,

realizing how many fascinating
stories there are to be told

in one's own life, without...
I meant to try to look for

what's an interesting
story outside.

"I began to realize

"what a remarkable story
she'd thrown into my lap.

"Gradually, I began to build up
a picture of the whole thing.

"And so much of Diane's
past and of my own actions

"appeared in a different light.

"The revelations had
awoken an obsession in me

"to tell the whole story to
anyone who would listen.

"My growing enthusiasm
for the narrative itself,

"as well as the constant
reevaluation of my own past,

"drove me around my room
for two days.

"And then, on Saturday, I was finally
able to send an email to Sarah

"with this summary
of my thoughts.

"My dear, Sarah,

"my mind has been racing
over the past 24 hours.

"Getting as many of my
thoughts down on paper will,

"I hope,
stop that feverish mental pursuit

"and put it all into
what is my perspective.

"Whatever we do,

"we must not put
any blame on Diane

"for those events that
took place in 1978.

"We had been married, then,
for over 10 years,

"and our union was not
a perfect one.

"She had already experienced
one major disaster in her life,

"with the breakdown
of her first marriage,

"and the subsequent loss of the two
children that she loved so much.

"And now, here she was,
stuck with a husband

"who was useless at
making her feel wanted,

"and so, when she went to
Montreal to do Toronto,

"it's scarcely surprising
that when love was expressed,

"and then offered to her,
she took it.

"I'd always told her
she should take a lover

"anytime she
felt me inadequate,

"just as long as she did not think
of leaving Mark and Jo, or me.

"Of course, she would never
have left another two children,

"and I would never have
disputed her claim for custody.

"So, it was clearly my own
future that I was worried about.

"And so, we arrive at
the affair with Harry,

"and, not unexpectedly,
it took place at the same time as

"I made one or two visits
to see her in Montreal.

"During those visits,
I made love to her,

"and there was something of a
renewal of the passion we felt

"when we first lived together.

"Diane must have been taken aback,
I would guess.

"Harry must have proposed that
they live together at some point,

"and she must have been
torn between us,

"since I suddenly seem
to be the old Michael

"that she once loved so much.

"Love is so short,

"forgetting, so long,

"Neruda wrote.

"Harry must have been
very disappointed

"when she returned to Toronto.

"And I'm sorry for that.

"But return to Toronto she did,

"and the three of us

"were happy to
have her with us again.

"And then came the discovery
that she was pregnant.

"For me, it was joyful.

"For her, it must
have been agonizing.

"Look, the terrible thing about all
the mental anguish she underwent

"was that she never understood

"what my reaction
would have been,

"if she'd told me
the whole story.

"I do believe I would have
told her not to worry,

"and that I was
quite ready to accept

"the ambiguity of
the parentage.

"But here, again, I had failed.

"Why is it that
we talk and talk,

"or, at least, I certainly do,

"without somehow conveying
what we're really like?"

So, what compelled you, initially,
to want to write

your version of the story?

Well, I was contemplating,
I had been contemplating for some time,

writing a memoir.

I became persuaded that
this was a strong story

which could be told
in many different ways,

but which had a very,
very strong structure

because it skipped a 30-year
period and skipped a generation.

That it had a particular strength
and a sense of continuity

with respect to memory
of moving forward

from one situation to another.

That it was a story with
great sadness and great joy.

And you suggested at one
point when we met in Toronto

that we each write
our version of it.

And then we would show it to
each other at the end, and...

Might do something with it, but, like,
it was sort of left pretty open-ended.

So, then,
I subsequently did write

the six-page summary
of the background

with Diane and us meeting.

Harry had written a piece about
his relationship with you and Diane,

and the discovery that you
are father and daughter.

And someone suggested that he publish it.

You reacted very,
very strongly. Very, very strongly to it.

You were enraged,
and you were very upset.

"Hi, there, Harry.

"I suppose I'm confused as to why
it's such a pressing issue for you

"that this story be public

"when it is already known
by everyone we love

"and everyone who loves us.

"As I said, while my dad has had
some time to deal with the news,

"he's not yet had to tell his
friends or answer any questions

"from anyone outside of
his immediate family.

"This space and privacy has
been important for him,

"and I believe strongly in protecting
that for as long as possible."

In my case, it goes back to

during my relationship with Diane,
which was open to her friends,

but, in fact, was
utterly constrained

by the reality of
her marital situation.

And I found that,
at the time, oppressive.

I guess I have felt in this,
sort of a bit of a...

An echo.

I felt constrained,

inhibited, and sort of pinched

in my relationship to you

because of the private way in
which we were dealing with it.

The atmosphere got
a little heavy there.

We were sort of building misunderstanding
on top of misunderstanding,

and we both proved to be very,
very capable in that respect.

I was upset that this thing
had gotten up between us.

My taste or desire
to do it at that point,

really, was no longer there.
I mean...

This is not fun anymore.
It's just creating problems.

So, eventually,
I dropped it and I backed off.

And what was it about
having it published that attracted you?

Well, I think...

I think anyone
who writes anything,

I mean, anyone who does anything,
wants to bring it out to a public.

I mean, if there's
a story to be told,

and if the story has some
validity and some resonance,

then you don't
keep it to yourself.

There was the honeymoon period.

There was the difficult period,

when I would hear the tones
of voices on the exchanges,

that there was tension.

So, this is in this
perfect relationship,

the perfect papa,
the perfect daughter.

Everything's perfect,
then it's no longer perfect.

"Hi, there, Harry.

"I'm just extremely
uncomfortable at being involved

"in the telling of this story,

"unless it includes
the whole picture.

"Which is to say, my experience of it,
your experience of it,

"as well as my family's.

"I've been thinking a lot about
your desire to tell this story,

"and my own desire to document
this experience through film.

"As I begin this process,

"I don't know what from
my project will take.

"I don't know if it's a
personal record for myself

"or something to be made into a
piece for others to see at some point.

"I don't know how long
it would take

"or if it would
ever get finished.

"beyond beginning to explore it through
interviews with everyone involved,

"so that everyone's
point of view,

"no matter how contradictory,
is included.

"One day, it may turn into a
documentary for others to consume.

"I'm really not sure when or
if I'd want that to happen.

"But whatever
it ended up being,

"it would feel very odd not to
have you be a part of this."

When he considers
this documentary,

being Harry, being a producer,

I'm sure there's a little bit
of trepidation about this film,

because he doesn't have
control of everything.

He understand that.
He doesn't like it.

It's been very clear to him
that this story will be told from

the point of view of everyone who
is alive who can talk about it.

And, you know,
my dad would really like it

just to be about his story of
meeting Diane and being with her,

and having you,
and meeting you again.

But he's gone along with it.
He's trying to be a good sport.

So, what do you think of the
concept of me making this documentary

where we're sort of giving equal weight
to everyone's version of the story?

I don't like it.

I think that

takes us into a...

Into a very wooly...

Like, you see, you can't ever
touch bottom with anything, then.

We're all over the place.

I think they can all be heard.

It's giving them equal
weight, which I find...

Particularly those
who are non-players.

First of all,
there are the parties to an incident.

Those who were there and who
were directly affected by it.

Then, there is
a circle around that,

of people who are
affected tangentially

because of their relationship
to the principal parties.

And then, there's another concentric
circle, further out there,

which, basically,
has heard or been told

by one of the principal
players about it.

All of these may have
different narratives

and these narratives

are shaped in part
by their relationship

to the person who told it to them,
and by the events.

One does not get the truth

simply by hearing
what their reactions are.

People tend to
declare themselves

in terms of what they saw,
in terms of what they felt.

In terms of what
they remembered,

and in terms of
their loyalties.

The same set of circumstances

will affect different
people in different ways.

Not that there are
different truths,

there are different reactions
to particular events.

The crucial function of
art is to tell the truth.

To find the truth in a situation.
That's what it's about.

You realize, when you've
finished all this...

You realize, when you've
finished all this,

you've got about
six hours of stuff.

And you'll decide
what you want out of it.

It'll be exactly
like the story.

Each one of us will pick out...

If any one of us
were trying to edit it

and decide what
we wanted to keep,

it would be the same farcical kind of
theatrical exercise that we're all involved in.

"Oh, I want to keep that."

"Oh, no, that's
rubbish, there."

That's an enormously
different thing

from simply doing
an interview straight

and never doing any
editing of it whatsoever,

but letting it run as it is.

That would have been at least
as close to truth as you can get,

whereas your editing of this

will turn this into something
completely different.

What would you say,
this documentary is really about?

Um...

Am I breaking the fourth wall here?

Turn the camera around.

Um...

What is it about?

I feel like it's about a lot of things.
I think, um...

Memory, you said.
Memory, and the way

we tell the stories
of our lives.

I think, in many ways,
it's like,

you know, trying to
bring someone to life

through people's
stories of them.

It's also...
Is this a good angle for me?

Sorry. Go on.

Telling people what?

Asshole.

"Hi, Harry.

"One of the main focuses
in the documentary are

"the discrepancies
in the stories.

"All of us.
You, me, my dad,

"my siblings, my mother's
friends, etcetera,

"have similar stories with large
and small details that vary.

"I'm interested in the way we
tell stories about our lives.

"About the fact that
the truth about the past

"is often ephemeral and
difficult to pin down.

"when we don't take proper time
to do research about our pasts,

"which is almost
always the case,

"end up with shifts and fictions in them,
mostly unintended."

In relation to Mum,

I think, when we talk
about it as a family,

there seems to be this,
you know, this kind of...

A lot of questions
about who was she.

You know, a lot of
disagreement about

And there was this misconception
that she was something,

and I guess that to me is
another misconception,

that there is
a state of affairs

or things that
actually happened,

and we have to kind of reconstruct
exactly what happened in the past.

And I don't think there ever was
a "what actually happened."

I think there were lots of
perspectives from the very beginning.

You don't ever
get to an answer.

You don't ever get to, "Okay,
now we've figured it out.

"We know exactly what happened.

"We know exactly what
kind of person she was."

I think those things
are just illusory.

Again, in terms of
the basic question,

"Can one get at
the truth?"

I guess we're getting
very close to it.

But you have to limit it to those
who are involved in the events,

And the direct witnesses to
the events are only two,

and one is not around.

I mean, Diane's not here to talk to,
you know?

That's really the only person
who could provide,

I mean, the essence,
the essentials, of what took place.

So, we've been
through all that debate,

and then we started
here, yesterday.

I somehow feel that we've
cleared up some of the smoke.

Maybe not all, but some of the
smoke has been cleared away.

But the reality is,
essentially,

that the story with Diane,
I regret to say,

is only mine to tell.

And I think that's a fact.

Uh...

Now, my recollections may be faulty
at times, but I'm not going to lie.

The love that I shared with Diane,
30 years ago,

was so intense and so lasting,

it all came back to me and got
wrapped up with my affection for you.

So, you know,
I became crazy about you in the same way.

When I heard the full details of the affair

between Mum and Harry,
I was really happy

because I've always felt

like she spent her whole
life looking for love,

and I certainly felt that,
in the last years of her life,

and for a long time,
ever since I was a child,

she really hadn't gotten
from Dad what she needed.

And when I heard
the story of Harry,

I remember feeling...

Feeling really happy
that she had found love.

And that she'd been
loved that much.

But, you know, I kind of think Dad was
the one she really was in love with.

And he just wasn't an option.

So, I'm really glad
that she was loved.

I'm not sure she was
loved by the person

she really wanted
to be loved by, but...

Yeah.

"When you make a documentary about
your own discovery of a new father,

"are you doing so to avoid your own
deeper concerns of its real impact on you?

"Is that why
you describe it as,

"'A search for
the vagaries of truth

"'and the unreliability
of memory'

"rather than,
'A search for a father'?"

"Hey, Dad.

"I've been thinking a lot
about your last email.

"Maybe you're right.

"Maybe there is something
underneath my need to make this film

"that I've been denying.

"Every time I feel I have my footing,
I lose it.

"I can't figure out why I'm
exposing us all in this way.

"It's really embarrassing,
to be honest.

"Have I totally lost my mind
trying to reconstruct the past

"from other people's words,

"trying to form her?

"Is this the tsunami she
unleashed when she went?

"And all of us,
still flailing in her wake,

"trying to put her together
in the wreckage,

"and her,
slipping away from us,

"over and over again,

"just as we begin
to see her face?"

What do you remember of the day Mom died?

Ah...

That was a terrible day,
wasn't it?

I don't know.
I guess...

I guess, her brother
had said to us,

"Well, it's almost the end now.

"I think each one
of you should go..."

I mean, she was unconscious.

"...and say whatever...

"Whatever final words you have to
say to her, uh, before she goes.

"Because it's very
close to the end."

Um...

That was a bad day.

- What did you say to her?
- What?

With that time that
we each had alone with her,

what did you say to her?

I don't know.

Probably that I'd missed her.

That I would miss her.

That I loved her, and I...

Would never forget her.

That's about all.

You know,
somebody you've known for 25 years

and spent much of
your life with for 25 years

and has given your life much
of its meaning for 25 years...

Awful hard to lose them.

It's, uh...

It's a dire line of questioning,
just try to...

We must find a way of
making it more funny.

What are you,
some kind of sadistic interviewer?

You told me I had to break you down more.

Yeah. Well, you've done it,
haven't you?

There was no acting
in any of that.

No acting at all.

You see what a vicious
director you are?

Now you understand, don't you?

I remember that...

Remember that day
when you directed me

in a ridiculous montage piece

that you were doing when you
were at the film center,

and you made me
walk down into a pool

of freezing cold water
wearing full clothes?

"Keep going
further down, Dad!"

I said, "I can't go any further down!
My clothes are holding me up."

"Just keep going down!

"God, you are so annoying.

"It's a very little thing
to ask of you.

"All I want you to do is
go a foot under the water.

"Here I am, trying
to do a montage,

"and my father is
causing trouble."

A brutal piece of directing.

Why?

And in some ways, that's...
You know, that's why this

whole question of, uh,

"Oh, was I your father
or wasn't I?"

It's, uh...

Becomes very, sort of

an unimportant part of the past,
for me, anyway, you know?

I mean,
I think it's much more important for you.

That happens along with life.

"So, don't feel sorry for me.

"If you have pity, it should be for Harry,
who loved and lost Diane,

"and then missed out on the childhood
of that Sarah he'd produced.

"Had that been my lot,
I would have been mortified

"when I read that DNA result.

"I've been a very
lucky man, and of course,

"for one of my
luckiest moments,

"I have to thank Harry Gulkin

"for loving Diane.

"Sarah is only what she is

"because of that night of
love between Diane and Harry.

"Had I been her
biological father,

"she would have been
entirely different.

"She might have
been better or worse,

"but she would definitely not
have been the Sarah she is today.

"And that's the one I love.

"Of the other possible outcome,
there is nothing.

"You may decide you want to
keep this letter to yourself

"or to share it.

"It's yours,
and yours the choice.

"You know... Look...'"

Dad, can you just go
back over that one line?

I was being so real.

I completely convinced myself.

"You may decide,
you want to keep this

"letter to yourself
or to share it.

"It's yours,
and yours the choice.

"You know... Look...

"While telling me your news on Thursday,
you twice hugged me

"as hard as you ever did
in your childhood.

"That alone

"made your revelation
worth a thousand words.

"So, there you have it.

"All I know of what happened

"or what has been reported
to me has been told.

"I think I wrote this story

"because it really says so
many interesting things

"about the human condition.

"But maybe there was
another reason.

"Perhaps, deep inside,
I have suffered more of a shock

"than I would openly admit.

"I sometimes stop and realize

"that something inside has,
for the rest of my life, changed.

"A certain cord that runs
between Sarah and me

"has been severed,

"and I'm powerless
to join it together.

"It's not a real thing.

"It only exists because we have
developed this facet called imagination

"and that is all too real and tangible.
It gives pain.

"It's brief,
and soon I am back again at the keyboard,

"reliving the past 40 years,

"but I suppose it will always be
lurking to catch me unawares.

"So, perhaps this story
is a form of denial.

"How ironic it is

"that the final revelation
of this aftermath

"have brought Sarah and I closer together

"and resulted in me
writing volumes,

"as Diane always wanted me to.

"It has given me
a new lease on life.

"At 5:26 this morning,
a little girl was born

"to Jennifer, my son's wife.

"It's almost three quarters of a century

"since I was pulled out
into the air of Ilford,

"and now this small girl is starting
to learn about life in Toronto.

"One thing is certain,

"her life will be radically
different from mine.

"So different that
we might as well be

"born on planets
light-years apart.

"I think she'll be interested to
read of her grandfather's life,

"set down in way that

"makes it very unlike the
stuff of history books.

"And now,
there's a fly buzzing around me as I write.

"It'll buzz around for a
short time looking for food,

"and, once sustained,
may seek a mate.

"It will never know why.

"It has simply been sentenced

"to follow the demands
of millions of ancestors.

"For that fly, the word
'why' does not exist.

"Yes, that's it, Michael.

"Just accept the sentence.

"I will go on.

"I will go on."

I'm just
so curious about, like,

all the versions of this story

that have been in existence
since I was, like, 13,

and my sister first
told me as a joke,

you know,
"Your dad's probably not your real dad."

And then, when I was 18, like,
hearing your name all the time,

and then finding Harry,

and then, you know,
it being proved by a DNA test.

Yeah. So, it's just weird that
now when I interview people,

like, a couple of
her close friends

were shocked that
Harry was my dad,

because they always
thought you were my dad.

Um...

Well, okay then, I'll...
I'll have to, uh...

I'll have to tell you that
we did sleep together once.