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1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,320
How have they got hold of this?
Someone is leaking information.
2
00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,360
They used me. All of them.
3
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,320
Down in the cellar.
4
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,120
We are looking at the remains
of four further bodies.
5
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,280
I'm not going anywhere. You couldn't
give me a lift, could you?
6
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,080
I think we need to get her
into a B&B.
7
00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,400
Fine.
8
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,840
Rach, whose bed are you in?
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Subtitles by MemoryOnSmells
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10
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,160
Number one is Michael. The others are
numbered in the order we unearthed
them.
11
00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,040
So Michael and remains two and three
were in grave A,
12
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,080
remains four and five were in grave B
13
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,400
and remains six and seven were in
grave C.
14
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,480
So, to reiterate, they all underwent
some form of dismemberment.
15
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,800
There are remarkably few bones
missing.
16
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,520
Teeth, nails, small bones,
they're all there.
17
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,040
Four and five are missing vertebrae
from the neck, that's all.
18
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,960
Both decapitated, presumably to fit
into grave B, which was smaller.
19
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,480
Hacking away at the neck, you're
going to dislodge something.
20
00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,360
The ropes I've put by the wrists,
that's where they were found.
21
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:34,720
The arms were behind the back,
presumably tied. A very unnatural
position to be in if they weren't.
22
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:40,480
Similarly, I've put the belts and the
knotted cloth next to the heads
because that's where they were found.
23
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,080
Round the head, under the chin,
tied at the top.
24
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,520
Presumably to keep their mouths shut.
Draw your own conclusions.
25
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,040
Some had fallen away
since decomposition,
26
00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,880
but they were close enough to suggest
that's what they were used for.
27
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,280
Are you all right?
28
00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,600
You know what the forensic
archaeologist and Denise said,
29
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,760
about how none of them were buried
at the same time? Yeah.
30
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,800
They were all buried separately.
31
00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,440
Even though they're in
the same graves. Yeah.
32
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,080
We've been blithely talking,
like assuming,
33
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,000
he filled one grave up
and then moved onto the next.
34
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,400
It doesn't make sense. You don't dig
a grave and leave it open
35
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,680
just in case you kill someone else
later.
36
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,440
Even though you know you are going
to, because you're a mad twat, you
still tidy up between jobs.
37
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,680
You just do, but that isn't
everything.
38
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,280
If he did... fill each grave,
before he moved onto the next,
39
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,440
there'd be three in two of the
graves and one in the third.
40
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,280
Why? You'd fill each one up before
you dug a new one.
41
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,640
He didn't do that. Two of them
weren't full
42
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,480
and they were all as deep
as each other, so why not?
43
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,120
What if...
44
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,880
Look, that cellar's tiny, right?
He couldn't have dug another grave
in
there if he wanted to.
45
00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:57,960
Yeah. So, he rotates.
46
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,800
He kills the first victim,
he digs a grave.
47
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,400
He kills the second victim,
he digs a grave.
48
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,840
He kills the third victim,
he digs a grave.
49
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:10,080
He kills his fourth victim,
'Ooh shit, where am I going
to stick this one?'
50
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,720
So, thinking he's buried his victims
nice and deep, which he did,
51
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,040
he goes back to the first grave,
grave A, thinking,
'There's room in there.'
52
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,280
Victim number five,
he puts in grave B.
53
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,640
Victim number six goes in grave C.
54
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,680
Then he gets to Michael,
55
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,720
number seven, and he's
triple-stacking in grave A.
56
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,760
Which would make Michael...
57
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,360
the last victim,
at least in that cellar.
58
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,400
The point is...
59
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,160
if Michael was buried last,
it whittles our timescale down,
60
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,560
because we know exactly when Michael
was killed, so...
61
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,200
We know our victims were killed
between March 1966,
62
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,440
when the Bevans moved into
that house,
63
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,040
and June 1977,
64
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,360
when Helen helped Joe bury Michael.
65
00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,320
That would also mean remains three,
the one at the bottom of the grave,
66
00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,520
Michael, grave A, was buried in,
was the first victim.
67
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,160
Yeah. Yeah. It would.
68
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,200
If we could work out the order
graves B and C were dug in,
69
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:08,400
we'd know the order they were all
buried in and, presumably,
the order they were killed in.
70
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,600
And grave B was the smallest. He had
to decapitate them to get them in.
71
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,760
Which might suggest that was dug
last, because he'd left himself
not so much room.
72
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,280
The whole thing is speculative
bollocks, of course.
73
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,200
Now all we still have to do is find
out who they all are.
74
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,120
Oh, damn. Can you?
75
00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,120
Denise, hi.
76
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,560
It's Gill. She's driving.
Do you want her?
77
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,760
I can. I'll tell her.
78
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,040
What? They've found human remains
under the floorboards
79
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,280
in Eunice and Joe's bedroom.
80
00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:48,520
I want to talk to you
about the cellar again now, Joe.
81
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,040
I know I've asked you
this question before,
82
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,080
but I'm going to ask you again.
83
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,880
Can you explain to me what you used
the cellar for? Nothing.
84
00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,040
Like I said, Eunice used to potter
about down there.
85
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,480
And the kids went down there
to muck about, from time to time.
86
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,680
I had no reason to go down there
myself.
87
00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:13,120
Do you recognise this key, Joe?
88
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:14,280
No.
89
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,680
That is the key, the only key
that we've found in your house,
90
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,440
that opens the lock on the door
into the cellar.
91
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,600
So, can you explain to me, Joe,
92
00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,800
if you've never been in the cellar,
93
00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:28,640
why that key has got
your fingerprints on it?
94
00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:31,840
Well, I could have picked it up.
95
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,440
I could have touched it without
knowing what it was for.
96
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,560
Can you explain to me, Joe,
if you've never been in the cellar,
97
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,080
why your fingerprints are on
the inside of the cellar door?
98
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,840
Right, right, right.
99
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,080
Well, I say I've never been in.
100
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:50,920
I have been in there.
101
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,680
I mean, I never went down there
regularly.
102
00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,560
For any purpose.
103
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,720
Can you explain to me, Joe,
if that's the case,
104
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,920
why your fingerprints are on both
bolts on the inside of the cellar
door?
105
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,280
I've never...
106
00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,120
They're not.
107
00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:15,080
I don't know.
108
00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,520
I have not been down in that cellar,
not for years.
109
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,880
Well, fingerprints hang around
for a long time, Joe,
110
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,920
if nobody wipes them off.
111
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,960
You'd be surprised.
112
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,760
So can you explain to me why you
were locking yourself in the cellar,
113
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,120
however many years ago it was,
the last time that you did it?
114
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,360
Joe, why were you locking yourself
in the cellar?
115
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,400
I'm not saying I was.
116
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,320
No, Joe, I am. I'm saying that you
were locking yourself in the cellar,
117
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,640
because why else would your
fingerprints be on both bolts?
118
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,200
How could you have been doing
anything other than locking yourself
in the cellar?
119
00:06:58,280 --> 00:06:59,640
Joe?
120
00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,200
We also found, as I've explained
to you before,
121
00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,480
in the cellar, a mattress,
a double-sized mattress.
122
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,560
I've shown you a picture
of this mattress before.
123
00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,840
I'm going to show it
to you again now.
124
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,440
You said that you didn't
recognise it.
125
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,720
Do you still not recognise it, now
you've had time to think about it?
126
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,000
Joe, can you explain to me,
127
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,040
if you don't recognise it...
128
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,720
why it's got traces of your semen
all over it?
129
00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:38,920
Joe?
130
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,320
Well...
131
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,040
What?
132
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,080
I might have...
133
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,120
You might have what, Joe?
134
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,760
Locked myself in there... to have...
135
00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:59,720
You know.
136
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,760
Now and again.
137
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,200
On the mattress?
Yeah.
138
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:12,040
OK. So, you locked yourself
in the cellar to go and masturbate
on this mattress?
139
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,280
Is that what you're telling me?
Yeah.
140
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:15,920
OK, Joe.
141
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,760
You'll appreciate,
142
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,800
given the nature of what we found
buried in the cellar,
143
00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:26,640
that everything found in there has
been sent for every kind of forensic
analysis we have available to us.
144
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,680
When this mattress was analysed,
145
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,320
not only did we find your DNA
in the semen,
146
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,360
we also found traces of blood
on this mattress.
147
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,800
So, can you explain to me, Joe,
148
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,760
how the DNA from the blood traces
that were found on this mattress
149
00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,160
match exactly the DNA of four of
the seven young male adults
150
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,800
that we found buried
under your cellar floor?
151
00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,840
She's good, isn't she?
152
00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:51,880
Well, she's trained.
153
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,000
Joe, can you explain that to me?
154
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,000
No.
155
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,040
We got lucky with those stains.
156
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,080
A cold, dry cellar.
157
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,680
You don't get one of them every day.
158
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,720
The head and the hands are missing.
159
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,320
The body was rolled in a carpet
and wedged, very wedged,
160
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,640
sideways, between the joists.
161
00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:17,480
We'll have confirmation
from the lab tomorrow,
162
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,120
but the remains, such as they are,
are those of a young female adult.
163
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,560
Sheila.
Well, we'll see.
164
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,480
Phil Cairns' statement? Still
ploughing through the files.
165
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,000
Just you? Me and Becky.
166
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,360
Can we assign one more officer
to look for these documents?
167
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:38,360
If this statement is gone with the
wind, I want to know sooner rather
than later. Sure.
168
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,480
We have had a bit of luck
this afternoon, ma'am.
169
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,720
Now we're thinking we've narrowed
down the timescale.
170
00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,480
Stephen Norgrove, 17 years old,
reported missing October, 1974.
171
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,520
Way up on our grid of possibles.
172
00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:55,880
We had South Yorks Police visit
his mother, she's in Sheffield,
173
00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,520
to take oral swabs,
which they've now done.
174
00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:00,360
But, what she also said,
175
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,400
was the last time she spoke to
her son was on the phone.
176
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:08,240
He'd gone to Manchester looking for
work and rang asking could she send
him some money.
177
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,920
The address he gave to send
the postal order to and she's 100%,
178
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,160
it was the last time
she spoke to him,
179
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,000
was in Peveril Street.
180
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,000
Like he was lodging there.
181
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,480
Have we fast-tracked the swab? Yeah.
We should have something tomorrow.
182
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,200
Have we got his MFH file?
183
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,120
There isn't one. His name came to us
from the Missing Persons Helpline.
184
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,480
We've now traced and swabbed for DNA
or we're in the process of doing,
185
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,120
the parents or siblings
of 211 possibles,
186
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,920
on the new shorter grid, out of 467.
187
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,680
And still no matches?
188
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,280
Do we need to inform the next of kin
that it's Sheila?
189
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,080
I mean, flag it up
that it's likely to be her?
190
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,560
Helen?
191
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,320
Oh, God, yes, of course.
192
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:51,880
Who is...?
193
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,920
Can you, Janet?
194
00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,200
Is she... Is... Where did Witness
Protection put her?
195
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,400
They didn't. I did. She's at
the Plaza Inn in Chadderton.
196
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,080
We're paying for it. Well, you are.
The investigation is. Good.
197
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,920
And Joe. Erm... Let's wait for
definite confirmation of her ID.
198
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,960
We'll tell him tomorrow, before you
carry on interviewing him, Rachel.
199
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,000
Good. Thank you.
200
00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,680
Night night. Off you go.
I know it doesn't always feel like
we're moving forward,
201
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,440
but, believe me, we are,
you're all marvellous.
202
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,320
Except the little death-wish tosser
who's been talking to the lovely
journalists.
203
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,800
Nice interview, by the way.
204
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,320
Yeah? Mm.
It'll be nicer when he coughs.
205
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,920
I was waiting for you to ask him
why he...
206
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,120
What? Why he what?
207
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,760
Why he wanked on his mattress.
Oh, shut up!
208
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,800
That's attractive, Joe. But why?
209
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,040
No, really, why would you?
To make it smell better?
210
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,680
Or because you'd mistaken it
for a toilet
211
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,520
or a tissue?
212
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,880
I'm not discussing it. He really
hadn't thought it through.
213
00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,520
Well, I hadn't.
214
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,760
I mean... You're right.
Why would you?
215
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,120
Well, you wouldn't.
I mean, we wouldn't.
216
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,440
Obviously, because we're ladies.
Yeah, and we don't wank.
217
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,400
We don't fart. We don't get drunk
and we don't swear.
218
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,440
Eh, have you rung Sean?
Piss off.
219
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,120
No. No.
220
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,120
I'm not prying. You do what you like.
But four nights?
221
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,560
He must think something, four nights,
and you don't go home.
222
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,600
He doesn't own me.
223
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,440
I want him to realise that and,
when he does, he might... bugger off.
224
00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:33,040
Sorry...
225
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,360
Am I all right sleeping round
at your house tonight again?
226
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,880
Yes.
227
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,160
I rang her twice earlier and I texted
her, but I've heard nothing back.
228
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,480
Helen?
229
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:55,040
Er, no.
230
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,480
I appreciate that. Thank you.
231
00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:00,680
Sorry to wake you...
232
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,240
Oops.
233
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,080
She's not back at Louise's.
234
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,120
She's definitely not checked out.
235
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,640
And you've not seen her? No.
But I've only been on since seven.
236
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:11,680
We're police officers.
237
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,720
You couldn't let us into her room?
238
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,920
Thank you.
239
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:19,840
Helen? Helen...
240
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:21,680
Oh, shit. Rach.
241
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,720
Helen? Helen?
242
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,760
Helen, can you hear me?
243
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,800
Helen, it's Rachel and Janet.
244
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,840
Ambulance. Plaza Inn, Chadderton.
245
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:31,360
Helen?
246
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,000
I'm an off-duty police officer,
Janet Scott.
247
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:35,640
Can you hear me?
248
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:37,680
Address: 20, Clough Road, Oldham.
249
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,520
OL59JK.
250
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:41,560
Yeah, I've got a lady.
251
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,320
She's unconscious.
She's taken an overdose.
252
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,840
Shit.
253
00:13:50,775 --> 00:13:52,775
Oh, shit.
254
00:13:54,038 --> 00:13:54,938
Hello.
255
00:13:54,950 --> 00:13:56,390
Hi, it's me.
256
00:13:56,552 --> 00:13:58,512
Where are you?
257
00:13:58,552 --> 00:14:01,552
I had to bring somebody into
hospital, a witness, an overdose.
258
00:14:01,592 --> 00:14:05,032
So, I'm just ringing to say I may as
well stay at Janet's again tonight.
259
00:14:05,072 --> 00:14:08,312
She's here, as well. God knows what
time we're going to be here till.
260
00:14:08,352 --> 00:14:12,352
Why are you stopping at Janet's?
Because it's... It's just easier.
261
00:14:12,392 --> 00:14:16,272
Janet's house is ten minutes,
a quarter of an hour max,
from our house.
262
00:14:16,312 --> 00:14:19,232
You don't know how knackered I get
on a big inquiry and -
263
00:14:19,272 --> 00:14:22,032
I need to talk to you.
What's it about?
264
00:14:22,518 --> 00:14:24,038
Us.
265
00:14:24,078 --> 00:14:25,678
This.
266
00:14:25,718 --> 00:14:27,718
Whatever's going on.
267
00:14:28,918 --> 00:14:32,798
Because... I'm... I'm struggling
here, Rachel.
268
00:14:33,878 --> 00:14:37,598
You'd rather be sleeping in
a sleeping bag in the sitting room.
269
00:14:37,638 --> 00:14:39,838
Then you're sleeping over at your...
270
00:14:39,878 --> 00:14:42,078
friend's for four days.
271
00:14:42,118 --> 00:14:43,758
OK. Right.
272
00:14:43,798 --> 00:14:45,798
We'll talk tomorrow.
273
00:14:45,838 --> 00:14:47,838
Right. Not on the phone.
274
00:14:47,878 --> 00:14:49,678
I want you here.
275
00:14:49,718 --> 00:14:51,358
Right. Of course.
276
00:14:51,398 --> 00:14:53,718
I want to know what's up.
Nothing's up.
277
00:14:54,798 --> 00:14:57,638
I'm just... I'm...
I'm just not used to...
278
00:14:57,678 --> 00:14:59,158
Oh, God.
279
00:14:59,198 --> 00:15:02,198
It's fine, it's fine.
Everything is going to be fine.
280
00:15:03,278 --> 00:15:05,278
I'm just a bugger to live with.
281
00:15:05,318 --> 00:15:07,518
I know that doesn't make it
any easier.
282
00:15:09,838 --> 00:15:11,638
I know I'm shit.
283
00:15:11,678 --> 00:15:16,078
I want to know what time you're gonna
be here. I can't give you a specific
time.
284
00:15:16,118 --> 00:15:18,478
I want to know.
285
00:15:18,518 --> 00:15:21,238
Well, it depends on what time
Godzilla lets us go.
286
00:15:21,278 --> 00:15:22,878
So I'll text you.
287
00:15:22,918 --> 00:15:25,718
I'll let you know what a likely time
is likely to be.
288
00:15:25,758 --> 00:15:27,158
All right?
289
00:15:27,198 --> 00:15:29,918
Why don't you just come home tonight?
290
00:15:30,998 --> 00:15:34,518
After you've finished doing whatever
it is you're doing there.
291
00:15:36,798 --> 00:15:38,278
Eh?
292
00:15:39,078 --> 00:15:40,878
Yeah. All right. Fine.
293
00:15:40,918 --> 00:15:42,638
I'll be waiting.
294
00:15:42,678 --> 00:15:45,398
I've got to go, Sean.
Someone has just turned up.
295
00:15:46,558 --> 00:15:48,558
Hi, Louise. Thanks for coming.
296
00:15:48,598 --> 00:15:52,198
Is she going to be all right?
I don't think she was messing about.
297
00:15:52,238 --> 00:15:53,878
She's through there.
298
00:15:53,918 --> 00:15:55,958
My colleague, Janet, she's with her.
299
00:15:55,998 --> 00:15:58,438
She is conscious.
They're doing some blood tests
300
00:15:58,478 --> 00:16:01,478
to assess if there's any long-term
damage to the liver.
301
00:16:01,518 --> 00:16:04,398
They know what they're doing.
She's in good hands.
302
00:16:19,998 --> 00:16:22,158
Alleluia! Nice to see you.
303
00:16:22,198 --> 00:16:23,218
Whatever.
304
00:16:23,249 --> 00:16:26,029
Nice of you to pop in. Do you want
to have this conversation
305
00:16:26,086 --> 00:16:28,006
or shall I just walk out again?
306
00:16:29,166 --> 00:16:30,966
How's your witness?
307
00:16:33,454 --> 00:16:34,654
She's gonna be fine.
308
00:16:34,701 --> 00:16:36,501
I've not seen you...
309
00:16:36,541 --> 00:16:38,541
for four, five days.
310
00:16:39,341 --> 00:16:41,421
All I've had is shitty, stupid texts.
311
00:16:41,461 --> 00:16:45,461
'I've had too much to drink.
I'm stopping at Janet's.'
For four nights?
312
00:16:46,701 --> 00:16:48,181
Basically...
313
00:16:50,261 --> 00:16:52,941
I'd like to know what's going on.
314
00:16:55,221 --> 00:16:56,821
OK.
315
00:16:58,941 --> 00:17:00,541
The thing is...
316
00:17:02,181 --> 00:17:03,981
This isn't working.
317
00:17:06,421 --> 00:17:08,541
And this isn't your fault.
This is...
318
00:17:09,741 --> 00:17:13,741
It's mine, it's my fault, it's all
my fault, I'm prepared to accept
that.
319
00:17:13,781 --> 00:17:15,261
I'm not...
320
00:17:16,661 --> 00:17:18,261
It's not...
321
00:17:18,301 --> 00:17:20,301
I mean, it's me.
322
00:17:20,341 --> 00:17:21,941
It's all me.
323
00:17:21,981 --> 00:17:23,981
I'm nuts. I'm impossible. I just...
324
00:17:26,941 --> 00:17:28,941
I can't live like this.
325
00:17:29,941 --> 00:17:31,541
I love you to bits.
326
00:17:31,581 --> 00:17:33,781
Sean, you're brilliant,
you're great.
327
00:17:33,821 --> 00:17:37,421
You're the nicest man in the world,
but I just can't do this.
328
00:17:37,461 --> 00:17:39,141
24/7.
329
00:17:39,181 --> 00:17:41,181
I thought I could, but I can't.
330
00:17:41,221 --> 00:17:43,941
No. No, I didn't think I could,
I didn't...
331
00:17:45,781 --> 00:17:48,061
I didn't think about it.
332
00:17:48,101 --> 00:17:50,101
Which I think is...
333
00:17:50,141 --> 00:17:51,741
erm...
334
00:17:51,781 --> 00:17:53,261
is...
335
00:17:56,261 --> 00:17:58,261
I can't do this.
336
00:18:04,021 --> 00:18:06,021
What...
337
00:18:06,061 --> 00:18:08,061
specifically
338
00:18:08,101 --> 00:18:10,101
is it
339
00:18:10,141 --> 00:18:12,141
you can't do?
340
00:18:17,581 --> 00:18:19,581
I want to be on my own.
341
00:18:27,221 --> 00:18:30,701
So then what happened?
Well, he was upset, obviously.
342
00:18:31,861 --> 00:18:34,661
Then he said, 'Why would you want
to do that to me?'
343
00:18:34,701 --> 00:18:36,541
This isn't about you.
344
00:18:36,581 --> 00:18:38,421
It is about me!
It's not.
345
00:18:38,461 --> 00:18:40,061
I'm here!
346
00:18:40,101 --> 00:18:43,501
I'm part of whatever's going on
inside your stupid brain!
347
00:18:43,541 --> 00:18:45,861
Because whatever you do affects me!
348
00:18:45,901 --> 00:18:47,701
I've messed up. I'm sorry.
349
00:18:47,741 --> 00:18:50,461
I should have... I'm a mess.
You deserve better.
350
00:18:50,501 --> 00:18:52,741
We've only been married five minutes.
351
00:18:52,781 --> 00:18:54,661
It's not your fault.
352
00:18:54,701 --> 00:18:58,141
I just don't get
what's going on inside your head.
353
00:18:58,181 --> 00:18:59,781
I just...
354
00:19:00,861 --> 00:19:02,661
can't do this.
355
00:19:04,861 --> 00:19:06,861
I... I gave up my flat.
356
00:19:08,861 --> 00:19:10,461
You're...
357
00:19:10,501 --> 00:19:15,061
What were you thinking walking down
the aisle, saying the vows?
358
00:19:16,301 --> 00:19:17,901
Nothing.
359
00:19:17,941 --> 00:19:19,781
All the money we've spent. Eh?
360
00:19:19,821 --> 00:19:21,621
I screwed up.
361
00:19:21,661 --> 00:19:23,661
You've screwed up.
362
00:19:25,741 --> 00:19:28,021
So... w... what do I do now?
363
00:19:28,061 --> 00:19:30,621
I don't know. Anything you like.
364
00:19:30,661 --> 00:19:32,661
What do you expect me to do now?
365
00:19:32,701 --> 00:19:34,701
Did you just say anything I like?
366
00:19:35,901 --> 00:19:39,501
I don't even know what this is about,
Rachel. I need my flat back.
367
00:19:40,541 --> 00:19:42,141
I'm sorry?
368
00:19:43,821 --> 00:19:45,821
You want me to move out?
369
00:19:47,741 --> 00:19:49,301
Well, I -
370
00:19:50,421 --> 00:19:53,421
Are you serious? Are you serious?
371
00:19:55,781 --> 00:19:57,781
I'm not going anywhere.
372
00:20:05,021 --> 00:20:06,621
All right.
373
00:20:09,821 --> 00:20:11,821
What are you doing?
374
00:20:11,861 --> 00:20:13,861
Where are you going?
375
00:20:20,181 --> 00:20:22,181
Where are you going?
376
00:20:22,221 --> 00:20:24,301
It's the middle of the night!
377
00:20:24,341 --> 00:20:25,941
You're mad.
378
00:20:28,821 --> 00:20:31,101
You are mad!
You do know that, don't you?
379
00:20:32,181 --> 00:20:33,781
You mad bitch!
380
00:20:35,781 --> 00:20:37,781
Gosh. Well.
381
00:20:40,301 --> 00:20:41,781
Blimey.
382
00:20:41,821 --> 00:20:43,821
Shall I go and brush my teeth? Yeah.
383
00:20:47,546 --> 00:20:51,866
She's trouble, that one, I've told
you before, and we haven't got room.
384
00:20:51,906 --> 00:20:53,906
It'll resolve itself.
385
00:21:00,506 --> 00:21:02,106
Morning.
386
00:21:02,146 --> 00:21:04,146
What's that reckoned to be?
387
00:21:04,186 --> 00:21:06,186
Rachel. She smokes like this.
388
00:21:06,226 --> 00:21:07,706
Oh.
389
00:21:07,746 --> 00:21:09,346
Does she?
390
00:21:10,186 --> 00:21:13,866
Ma'am, DC Broadhurst just called
from DHQ. They've found it.
391
00:21:13,906 --> 00:21:15,786
Phil Cairns' statement from 1977.
392
00:21:15,826 --> 00:21:18,746
And the documents from
the subsequent inquiry. Yes!
393
00:21:18,786 --> 00:21:21,826
It's interesting, though.
It's dated July 1977, so...
394
00:21:21,866 --> 00:21:23,986
He didn't report it
for seven months.
395
00:21:25,066 --> 00:21:28,586
Have I got a driver outside? Ring me
as soon as you get that file.
396
00:21:35,226 --> 00:21:39,506
I can confirm that yesterday the
remains of a teenage girl were found
in the property.
397
00:21:39,546 --> 00:21:41,066
And that, this morning,
398
00:21:41,106 --> 00:21:45,186
we have identified them as
the remains of Sheila Anne Bevan,
399
00:21:45,226 --> 00:21:48,746
the eldest daughter of Joseph
and Eunice Bevan.
400
00:21:48,786 --> 00:21:52,386
I can also confirm that we have now
been able to identify
401
00:21:52,426 --> 00:21:56,026
one of the young adult males found
buried in the cellar,
402
00:21:56,066 --> 00:21:58,346
as Stephen James Norgrove,
403
00:21:58,386 --> 00:22:03,586
who was 17 years old and came from
the Attercliffe area of Sheffield.
404
00:22:04,346 --> 00:22:09,866
Thank you. Is it true that Helen
Bartlett was in hospital last night
and that she'd taken an overdose?
405
00:22:09,906 --> 00:22:12,986
Find out which news organisation
he's with.
406
00:22:13,026 --> 00:22:17,026
There will be a further bulletin
later on today. Thank you.
407
00:22:21,066 --> 00:22:24,586
They're fascinated with Helen,
aren't they? They want blood.
408
00:22:24,626 --> 00:22:28,546
Normally, all they want to know is if
we're any nearer charging anyone.
409
00:22:28,586 --> 00:22:30,586
I am -
I don't doubt for a second
410
00:22:30,626 --> 00:22:34,426
you're doing your best, Julie, but
you've got enough to worry about.
411
00:22:34,466 --> 00:22:38,146
I've tasked Professional Standards
to find out who this mole is.
412
00:22:38,186 --> 00:22:40,986
No-one on your team will even know
it's happening.
413
00:22:44,346 --> 00:22:45,626
Hiya.
414
00:22:45,666 --> 00:22:50,306
Tell you what, this file with Phil
Cairns' statement in it is
a museum piece.
415
00:22:50,346 --> 00:22:52,106
Yeah. Well, it will be.
416
00:22:52,146 --> 00:22:54,346
It's shameful, it's appalling.
417
00:22:54,386 --> 00:22:56,386
They - we ha ha -
418
00:22:56,426 --> 00:22:59,146
visited the house,
they had a look in the cellar.
419
00:22:59,186 --> 00:23:02,066
They asked a few questions.
They 'found nothing'.
420
00:23:02,106 --> 00:23:07,226
That's it. He was treated like some
sort of deluded sexually-deviant
teenage time-waster.
421
00:23:07,266 --> 00:23:09,666
That's going to have repercussions.
Yeah.
422
00:23:09,706 --> 00:23:11,506
But does it implicate Joe Bevan?
423
00:23:11,546 --> 00:23:13,706
Oh, God, yeah, and Eunice.
Very much so.
424
00:23:13,746 --> 00:23:15,426
What about Helen?
Well...
425
00:23:15,466 --> 00:23:17,146
That's interesting.
426
00:23:18,266 --> 00:23:21,066
How did she die?
It's impossible to tell.
427
00:23:22,506 --> 00:23:24,106
Was it them?
428
00:23:24,146 --> 00:23:27,106
We don't know. We've yet to link Joe,
forensically,
429
00:23:27,146 --> 00:23:28,946
either with Sheila's death
430
00:23:28,986 --> 00:23:31,986
or with the bodies that were buried
in the cellar, but -
431
00:23:32,026 --> 00:23:35,306
We have no reason to think it was
anyone else, at the moment.
432
00:23:35,346 --> 00:23:37,226
Those two girls got convicted.
433
00:23:37,266 --> 00:23:41,266
Who had pushed that old woman into
the canal in the wheelie bin.
434
00:23:41,306 --> 00:23:42,506
Yeah.
435
00:23:42,546 --> 00:23:44,546
13 and 14 years old.
436
00:23:47,106 --> 00:23:49,306
People think I know things.
437
00:23:49,346 --> 00:23:50,946
I didn't.
438
00:23:50,986 --> 00:23:52,986
I had no idea.
439
00:23:54,506 --> 00:23:56,506
Apart from Michael.
440
00:23:56,546 --> 00:23:58,746
We've had a few nasty phone calls
and...
441
00:23:58,786 --> 00:24:00,786
a parcel through the door.
442
00:24:02,826 --> 00:24:06,546
We do need to ask you some more
questions, Helen, when you feel able.
443
00:24:06,586 --> 00:24:09,346
Down at Oldham.
Can you not ask them here?
444
00:24:09,386 --> 00:24:11,626
It's an interview
we'd need to record.
445
00:24:28,626 --> 00:24:32,186
Ma'am, Stephen Norgrove's mother and
brother are downstairs with the FLO.
446
00:24:32,226 --> 00:24:34,826
They've just been shown into
the family room. Thanks.
447
00:24:40,026 --> 00:24:41,826
You don't recognise him?
448
00:24:44,226 --> 00:24:47,106
His name is Stephen Norgrove.
449
00:24:47,146 --> 00:24:49,946
Steve? Steve Norgrove.
Does that ring any bells?
450
00:24:51,786 --> 00:24:56,346
He stayed at your house in 1974.
He was 17 years old.
451
00:24:58,426 --> 00:25:02,346
We know he was at your house because
his mother sent him a postal order
to your address.
452
00:25:02,386 --> 00:25:04,386
People came and went.
453
00:25:05,466 --> 00:25:07,466
It's a long time since.
454
00:25:11,066 --> 00:25:13,586
I want you to look carefully.
Think about it.
455
00:25:17,226 --> 00:25:19,826
We also know he was at your house
at some stage,
456
00:25:19,866 --> 00:25:22,586
because we found his body
buried in your cellar.
457
00:25:24,626 --> 00:25:26,266
I'd like to see him.
458
00:25:26,306 --> 00:25:28,706
What you need to understand, Irene,
459
00:25:28,746 --> 00:25:30,746
is that what we found
460
00:25:30,786 --> 00:25:32,586
are remains.
461
00:25:33,626 --> 00:25:35,826
I saw Stephen yesterday morning
and...
462
00:25:36,906 --> 00:25:39,626
We say remains, rather than a body,
when we've...
463
00:25:39,666 --> 00:25:41,786
essentially, we've found a skeleton.
464
00:25:41,826 --> 00:25:43,626
I know that, love.
465
00:25:43,666 --> 00:25:45,746
I still want to see him.
466
00:25:45,786 --> 00:25:47,946
Of course you do.
467
00:25:47,986 --> 00:25:50,826
I'm showing you another photograph
now, Joe.
468
00:25:50,866 --> 00:25:52,866
Do you recognise this lad?
469
00:25:55,706 --> 00:25:58,186
This photograph was taken in 1976.
470
00:25:58,226 --> 00:26:00,346
His name is Phil Cairns.
471
00:26:00,386 --> 00:26:02,986
Does that mean anything to you?
Philip Cairns?
472
00:26:05,066 --> 00:26:07,666
Well, Mr Cairns came in to see us
a few days ago.
473
00:26:07,706 --> 00:26:09,386
He says you do know him.
474
00:26:11,306 --> 00:26:14,986
Do you remember meeting him one
evening near Piccadilly station?
475
00:26:15,026 --> 00:26:18,226
It was cold, it was January,
there was snow on the ground.
476
00:26:18,266 --> 00:26:20,266
It was 1977.
477
00:26:22,066 --> 00:26:24,786
Do you remember inviting him
back to your house?
478
00:26:25,866 --> 00:26:27,666
He had no money, nowhere to go
479
00:26:27,706 --> 00:26:31,146
and you offered him a bed
for a night and a bite to eat.
480
00:26:31,186 --> 00:26:33,186
Do you remember that?
481
00:26:37,066 --> 00:26:39,066
How would you respond, Joe,
482
00:26:39,106 --> 00:26:42,306
if I told you that Mr Cairns,
five days ago, came in here
483
00:26:42,346 --> 00:26:45,146
and told us that you
and your wife tied him up,
484
00:26:45,186 --> 00:26:48,746
fastened a belt round his head,
gagged him, stripped him naked
485
00:26:48,786 --> 00:26:52,066
and sexually assaulted him
over a period of several days?
486
00:26:52,106 --> 00:26:54,666
He's a liar.
I'm sorry?
487
00:26:54,706 --> 00:26:56,706
He's a liar.
488
00:26:58,346 --> 00:27:00,346
Are you all right, Joe?
489
00:27:03,026 --> 00:27:05,026
Has something upset you?
490
00:27:06,946 --> 00:27:08,946
What is it, Joe, that's upset you?
491
00:27:15,146 --> 00:27:16,986
Perhaps we should take a break.
492
00:27:20,106 --> 00:27:22,586
No. I'd like to know
what has upset Joe.
493
00:27:23,346 --> 00:27:28,546
He's elderly, he's tired, he's ill,
he's upset about Sheila.
494
00:27:28,586 --> 00:27:30,986
I think he needs to take a break.
495
00:27:36,066 --> 00:27:37,666
Yeah. Sure.
496
00:27:43,744 --> 00:27:45,544
You should have pushed him.
Yeah.
497
00:27:45,642 --> 00:27:48,522
I'm not criticising you.
No. I know. You're right.
498
00:27:48,562 --> 00:27:52,082
It's your call. Essentially, we've
got him. We haven't got him.
499
00:27:52,122 --> 00:27:54,722
It's all circumstantial,
even the mattress.
500
00:27:54,762 --> 00:27:58,482
We've got two eyewitness statements.
It's fine. From 40 years ago.
501
00:27:58,522 --> 00:28:00,922
We've got a piss-head and a flake.
502
00:28:00,996 --> 00:28:02,476
No.
503
00:28:02,516 --> 00:28:04,116
It isn't fine.
504
00:28:04,156 --> 00:28:07,556
I'm sorry. I shouldn't - Look, I'm
having a bad time with Sean.
505
00:28:07,596 --> 00:28:09,076
Right.
506
00:28:09,116 --> 00:28:11,116
So I don't mess up interviews.
507
00:28:11,285 --> 00:28:13,565
I'm not saying you did, Rachel.
No, I am.
508
00:28:13,605 --> 00:28:15,205
I'm saying it.
509
00:28:16,285 --> 00:28:18,285
That wasn't an excuse.
510
00:28:18,325 --> 00:28:20,125
About Sean. I just...
511
00:28:20,165 --> 00:28:22,165
I just thought I'd mention it. OK.
512
00:28:24,925 --> 00:28:28,525
There are discrepancies. It's not
clear to me, from that statement,
513
00:28:28,565 --> 00:28:31,565
that he's implicating anyone other
than Joe and Eunice.
514
00:28:31,605 --> 00:28:35,445
He implicated Helen so unequivocally
when you interviewed him,
515
00:28:35,485 --> 00:28:39,125
he even named her, but he could have
got that from a newspaper.
516
00:28:39,165 --> 00:28:40,765
Here, it's vague.
517
00:28:40,805 --> 00:28:43,485
He mentions hearing
children's voices. Once.
518
00:28:43,525 --> 00:28:45,725
Not even necessarily
in the same room.
519
00:28:45,765 --> 00:28:48,765
He didn't see them. How could he?
He was blindfolded.
520
00:28:48,805 --> 00:28:51,525
He's misremembered it.
She's coming in, Helen.
521
00:28:51,565 --> 00:28:53,565
She's following us on.
Good.
522
00:28:53,605 --> 00:28:55,845
A fascinating bit about how
he escaped.
523
00:28:55,885 --> 00:28:59,285
Let's see what she has to say,
both about what's in here
524
00:28:59,325 --> 00:29:01,605
and what Phil Cairns told us
four days ago.
525
00:29:01,645 --> 00:29:04,645
Rachel needs a copy of all this,
as well. How's it going?
526
00:29:04,685 --> 00:29:06,405
I'm just giving him half an hour.
527
00:29:06,445 --> 00:29:10,845
He got very upset when we kicked off
by arresting him. Kind of went
downhill from there.
528
00:29:10,885 --> 00:29:12,885
Upset? He's a psychopath.
Get over it.
529
00:29:12,925 --> 00:29:14,765
Yeah, I know. I just...
530
00:29:14,805 --> 00:29:17,525
It seemed appropriate.
Your call.
531
00:29:17,565 --> 00:29:20,845
Phil Cairns' statement,
will you make her a copy? Sure.
532
00:29:26,965 --> 00:29:28,765
Any developments?
533
00:29:30,045 --> 00:29:32,045
He's pranged his patrol car.
534
00:29:32,085 --> 00:29:33,885
He texted me.
535
00:29:33,925 --> 00:29:35,925
Cos, obviously, that's my fault.
536
00:29:35,965 --> 00:29:38,965
Telepathic kinesis.
Is there no end to your talents?
537
00:29:39,005 --> 00:29:42,045
You're missing the action, kids.
DNA match on two more bodies.
538
00:29:42,085 --> 00:29:45,365
Oh, Helen Bartlett and her mousey
little girlfriend have turned up.
539
00:29:45,405 --> 00:29:49,965
I think I'd be bothering with
prostitutes and overdosing if I had
to sleep with that every night.
540
00:29:51,605 --> 00:29:52,805
Joke.
541
00:29:54,165 --> 00:29:55,805
Dodson's looking for you.
542
00:30:06,165 --> 00:30:10,565
Joe Bevan's solicitor is asking to
speak to the Senior Investigating
Officer.
543
00:30:11,965 --> 00:30:14,965
No, that's me. Yes, I know, ma'am,
I was just...
544
00:30:15,005 --> 00:30:17,205
Do you know what it's about?
545
00:30:17,245 --> 00:30:18,725
No.
546
00:30:19,805 --> 00:30:23,805
I'm Julie Dodson.
This is DCI Murray. Superintendent.
547
00:30:28,485 --> 00:30:31,085
My client has indicated
he wants to confess
548
00:30:31,125 --> 00:30:34,725
to the murders of the boys, men,
you found buried in the cellar.
549
00:30:34,765 --> 00:30:36,765
He's written down what he believes
550
00:30:36,805 --> 00:30:41,325
are the names of the five remaining
victims you discovered down there.
551
00:30:41,365 --> 00:30:45,725
He also wants to make it clear,
however, that he did not kill Sheila,
his daughter.
552
00:30:45,765 --> 00:30:48,485
He knows nothing about what happened
to her.
553
00:30:48,525 --> 00:30:53,445
And that he was coerced and
brainwashed into committing the
crimes by his wife, Eunice.
554
00:30:55,125 --> 00:30:58,005
Is he prepared to make a statement
to DC Bailey? Yes.
555
00:30:58,045 --> 00:30:59,765
Now?
Yes.
556
00:31:01,805 --> 00:31:04,205
He's called Phil Cairns.
557
00:31:04,245 --> 00:31:06,045
Philip Cairns.
558
00:31:06,085 --> 00:31:09,725
You'd have been twelve at the time
that he visited your house
559
00:31:09,765 --> 00:31:12,365
in Peveril Street,
in the January of 1977.
560
00:31:12,405 --> 00:31:14,005
OK.
561
00:31:14,045 --> 00:31:16,245
He was homeless. He had no money.
562
00:31:16,285 --> 00:31:19,245
Joe, your dad, picked him up
near Piccadilly station
563
00:31:19,285 --> 00:31:21,925
and offered him food and shelter
at your house.
564
00:31:22,845 --> 00:31:24,605
Was that normal at your house?
565
00:31:25,685 --> 00:31:27,485
People... lads...
566
00:31:27,525 --> 00:31:29,245
came and went.
567
00:31:30,245 --> 00:31:32,245
I don't remember any of their names.
568
00:31:32,285 --> 00:31:35,885
I told you, they never stayed long
and I never bothered with them.
569
00:31:35,925 --> 00:31:38,125
How would you react, Helen,
if I told you
570
00:31:38,165 --> 00:31:41,405
that Phil is telling us,
and this is partially corroborated
571
00:31:41,445 --> 00:31:44,925
by a statement that he made to
the police shortly after the event,
572
00:31:44,965 --> 00:31:47,325
that he was plied with drink
by your parents
573
00:31:47,365 --> 00:31:50,965
and, when he woke up, he'd been
stripped naked, bound and gagged,
574
00:31:51,005 --> 00:31:55,005
and was sexually assaulted over
several days in a darkened room
575
00:31:55,045 --> 00:31:58,365
and, during that time,
he heard children's voices?
576
00:32:04,205 --> 00:32:06,205
There was an incident.
577
00:32:06,245 --> 00:32:07,845
Go on.
578
00:32:09,165 --> 00:32:11,765
People... came there.
579
00:32:11,805 --> 00:32:14,005
We knew that. For sex.
580
00:32:16,165 --> 00:32:18,165
There was always people.
581
00:32:18,205 --> 00:32:21,805
People paid for all sorts of stuff,
all the time.
582
00:32:26,325 --> 00:32:28,325
But, yeah.
583
00:32:28,365 --> 00:32:30,365
It could have been him.
584
00:32:30,405 --> 00:32:32,205
What could?
585
00:32:34,725 --> 00:32:36,525
One night...
586
00:32:36,565 --> 00:32:38,565
Right? ..we were in bed.
587
00:32:39,645 --> 00:32:41,125
And...
588
00:32:41,165 --> 00:32:43,885
Julie said, 'There's something
in the cellar.'
589
00:32:43,925 --> 00:32:45,925
And I... erm...
590
00:32:48,005 --> 00:32:50,525
We were kids. It could have been
when you said.
591
00:32:51,845 --> 00:32:53,845
Anyway she said...
592
00:32:56,925 --> 00:32:58,925
'It's making noises.'
593
00:33:01,165 --> 00:33:03,165
She wanted to go and see.
594
00:33:03,205 --> 00:33:05,005
I didn't.
595
00:33:07,845 --> 00:33:09,965
She'd found out
where he kept the key.
596
00:33:11,045 --> 00:33:12,645
My dad...
597
00:33:12,685 --> 00:33:15,085
He didn't know we knew.
It was in a tin.
598
00:33:16,605 --> 00:33:19,005
On a shelf, under the sink,
in the kitchen.
599
00:33:21,325 --> 00:33:23,405
We weren't allowed down there. Ever.
600
00:33:26,765 --> 00:33:28,765
Anyway, they were both drunk.
601
00:33:28,805 --> 00:33:30,805
Pissed up to their eyeballs.
602
00:33:32,165 --> 00:33:34,165
Crashed out in the sitting room.
603
00:33:37,165 --> 00:33:39,165
We got this key.
604
00:33:40,765 --> 00:33:42,765
And we went down...
605
00:33:42,805 --> 00:33:44,805
into the cellar.
606
00:33:46,085 --> 00:33:48,685
We heard him... whimpering.
607
00:33:49,965 --> 00:33:51,965
It was a man.
608
00:33:53,485 --> 00:33:55,485
Like an animal. It was...
609
00:33:58,165 --> 00:34:00,165
No clothes on.
610
00:34:00,205 --> 00:34:02,205
We knew they did...
611
00:34:02,245 --> 00:34:04,245
bloody weird stuff, but this was...
612
00:34:05,325 --> 00:34:08,325
He was... dirty, like he'd been
there...
613
00:34:12,165 --> 00:34:14,165
We ran back upstairs.
614
00:34:15,245 --> 00:34:17,245
But we couldn't sleep, it was...
615
00:34:21,965 --> 00:34:23,965
And then...
616
00:34:24,005 --> 00:34:26,005
a bit later...
617
00:34:27,685 --> 00:34:29,685
She went and got a knife.
618
00:34:30,765 --> 00:34:32,765
Out of the kitchen.
619
00:34:32,805 --> 00:34:34,405
Julie.
620
00:34:35,485 --> 00:34:37,485
And we went back down there.
621
00:34:38,565 --> 00:34:40,565
I...stood on the stairs.
622
00:34:40,605 --> 00:34:44,245
The cellar stairs. I was frightened,
I couldn't go any further.
623
00:34:44,285 --> 00:34:47,885
I was frightened my dad would find
us and lock us in with him.
624
00:34:47,925 --> 00:34:49,925
She cut the rope.
625
00:34:49,965 --> 00:34:51,565
Julie.
626
00:34:51,605 --> 00:34:55,605
The rope that was tying his hands
behind his back and his legs...
627
00:34:55,645 --> 00:34:57,445
were tied, too,
628
00:34:57,485 --> 00:34:59,485
but then he started...
629
00:35:00,565 --> 00:35:03,685
flailing around, trying to get
this thing off his face.
630
00:35:03,725 --> 00:35:05,325
And...
631
00:35:06,645 --> 00:35:09,125
We ran. We ran.
We ran back upstairs.
632
00:35:09,165 --> 00:35:10,765
I...
633
00:35:10,805 --> 00:35:12,805
dropped the torch.
634
00:35:12,845 --> 00:35:16,165
We left the door open, because
we wanted him to run, too.
635
00:35:20,325 --> 00:35:22,325
Was that him?
636
00:35:22,365 --> 00:35:26,485
That would tie in
with his description of how
he managed to get away. Yes.
637
00:35:28,165 --> 00:35:29,965
Is that...
638
00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:33,925
what he did to the ones
you've found buried?
639
00:35:33,965 --> 00:35:36,765
There is some evidence
that's what happened.
640
00:35:36,805 --> 00:35:38,605
Oh, my God.
641
00:35:40,885 --> 00:35:42,885
But not Michael? That wasn't...
642
00:35:42,925 --> 00:35:44,925
That was an accident.
643
00:35:44,965 --> 00:35:48,965
I'm afraid there's evidence that is
what happened to Michael
644
00:35:49,005 --> 00:35:51,845
and... that it wasn't an accident.
645
00:35:51,885 --> 00:35:53,685
Oh, God.
646
00:35:53,725 --> 00:35:55,525
The bastard.
647
00:35:56,965 --> 00:35:59,765
I didn't know he'd done that
to other people.
648
00:36:03,125 --> 00:36:05,125
What about Sheila?
649
00:36:07,125 --> 00:36:11,605
Of course the most shocking thing is
not what they saw, it's the fact
that they saw it.
650
00:36:11,645 --> 00:36:15,565
She might be adamant that she had no
idea other people were buried down
there.
651
00:36:15,605 --> 00:36:18,405
Even if we've got no evidence
to contradict that,
652
00:36:18,445 --> 00:36:24,325
the fact remains that, as an adult,
she knew someone had been imprisoned
and sexually tortured down there
653
00:36:24,365 --> 00:36:27,125
and that her brother had been killed
and buried.
654
00:36:27,165 --> 00:36:32,165
As an adult, anyone in their right
mind, must realise they have
an obligation to tell the police.
655
00:36:32,205 --> 00:36:35,605
Not legally. Morally. Yeah, well,
that's not our bag, is it?
656
00:36:35,645 --> 00:36:38,525
No-one else died after Michael.
We don't know that.
657
00:36:38,565 --> 00:36:42,445
All we know is no-one else was
buried in the cellar. That's not
the point, anyway.
658
00:36:42,485 --> 00:36:46,645
If she'd said something sooner,
Irene Norgrove and all these other
parents,
659
00:36:46,685 --> 00:36:50,725
people you're going to have some
pretty distressing conversations
with,
660
00:36:50,765 --> 00:36:53,445
would have been able to move on
by now, years ago.
661
00:36:53,485 --> 00:36:56,965
But the fact also remains that she
did come forward. Eventually.
662
00:36:57,005 --> 00:37:00,805
Voluntarily. Selflessly. Look what's
happened to her since she did.
663
00:37:00,845 --> 00:37:04,045
People want blood.
They've put shit through her door.
664
00:37:05,765 --> 00:37:08,365
Do you think he did murder
other people?
665
00:37:08,405 --> 00:37:11,205
It's odd for someone like that
to just stop.
666
00:37:11,245 --> 00:37:13,285
Er, Rob!
Ma'am?
667
00:37:13,325 --> 00:37:15,245
Briefing room, please, ten minutes.
668
00:37:15,285 --> 00:37:18,285
We've all earned a decent night's
sleep after this breakthrough.
669
00:37:18,325 --> 00:37:21,605
Still going to ask the CPS to drop
the unlawful burial charges?
670
00:37:21,645 --> 00:37:23,845
They won't.
I've had the conversation.
671
00:37:23,885 --> 00:37:27,085
The only thing I can do is
fast-track it and ask for leniency.
672
00:37:28,165 --> 00:37:32,405
I'm not convinced he didn't murder
Sheila. I don't think any of us are.
Are we?
673
00:37:32,445 --> 00:37:36,005
He's playing games. Well, yeah,
of course he is, he's a psychopath.
674
00:37:36,045 --> 00:37:39,365
So, essentially, he's blaming Eunice
for everything.
675
00:37:39,405 --> 00:37:44,005
I did remind him that, initially, he
blamed Eunice and Helen and Julie
for Michael's death.
676
00:37:44,045 --> 00:37:45,325
But...
677
00:37:45,365 --> 00:37:47,365
Well, this is what we're wondering.
678
00:37:47,405 --> 00:37:50,205
He knows we've got irrefutable
forensic evidence
679
00:37:50,245 --> 00:37:52,245
against him on Eunice, right.
680
00:37:52,285 --> 00:37:54,685
So, if he can blame Eunice
for everything,
681
00:37:54,725 --> 00:37:59,045
coercing him, forcing him,
brainwashing him, whatever,
into doing things,
682
00:37:59,085 --> 00:38:04,205
then, A, he can claim diminished
responsibility for murdering
the seven boys in the cellar
683
00:38:04,245 --> 00:38:08,165
and, B, he can claim the same when
he goes to court for murdering
Eunice.
684
00:38:08,205 --> 00:38:12,245
He can claim he ended the life of
this woman who bullied him for
years,
685
00:38:12,285 --> 00:38:15,725
this woman who was evil enough
to murder her own daughter.
686
00:38:15,765 --> 00:38:17,365
Who would believe him?
687
00:38:17,405 --> 00:38:21,125
A jury. A doddery little old man.
A bleeding-hearts-brigade jury.
688
00:38:21,165 --> 00:38:24,245
We've got to wait for something
from the lab on Sheila.
689
00:38:24,285 --> 00:38:26,285
What if there isn't anything?
690
00:38:27,725 --> 00:38:29,205
Right!
691
00:38:29,245 --> 00:38:32,725
Well done. There's a drink waiting
for everyone over the road.
692
00:38:35,485 --> 00:38:37,045
What do you want?
693
00:38:37,085 --> 00:38:39,085
Lager?
No. Bitter. Two bitters.
694
00:38:40,245 --> 00:38:42,045
Rachel!
695
00:38:49,219 --> 00:38:52,139
This had better be good.
Bringing my bloody mother?
696
00:38:52,179 --> 00:38:54,779
I didn't bring her. She was here.
I didn't want her here.
697
00:38:54,819 --> 00:38:57,219
You just turned up and she was
already here? Yeah.
698
00:38:57,259 --> 00:38:58,859
I don't believe you.
699
00:38:58,899 --> 00:39:00,899
Well, whatever, it's irrelevant.
700
00:39:00,939 --> 00:39:03,339
I'm not stopping.
I just wanted to say...
701
00:39:04,859 --> 00:39:06,499
I know you're mad.
702
00:39:06,539 --> 00:39:08,899
You are mad, but...
703
00:39:10,339 --> 00:39:12,819
Look, I'm not prepared to accept
704
00:39:12,859 --> 00:39:18,059
that this can possibly have gone so
wrong so quickly, because it hasn't.
705
00:39:19,579 --> 00:39:23,299
It's all in your head. You're feeling
trapped and you don't need to.
706
00:39:25,299 --> 00:39:27,299
And when you realise that...
707
00:39:29,219 --> 00:39:31,219
then you know where I'll be.
708
00:39:34,099 --> 00:39:36,099
Just... call me.
709
00:39:48,659 --> 00:39:50,659
Evening, cowboy. What...?
710
00:39:51,739 --> 00:39:53,739
What are you doing here?
711
00:39:53,779 --> 00:39:55,779
Nothing. I was just...
712
00:39:56,779 --> 00:40:00,219
Well, I pop in now and again.
It's the only time I get to see...
713
00:40:00,259 --> 00:40:02,059
Fanny Alice.
714
00:40:02,099 --> 00:40:03,779
Yeah. Is it?
715
00:40:03,819 --> 00:40:06,419
What are you drinking?
No, no, I'm fine.
716
00:40:07,619 --> 00:40:09,939
You couldn't lend me a few quid,
could you?
717
00:40:09,979 --> 00:40:11,699
How do you mean?
718
00:40:11,739 --> 00:40:13,339
For a drink.
719
00:40:13,379 --> 00:40:14,819
Say...
720
00:40:15,579 --> 00:40:17,139
40 quid?
721
00:40:17,179 --> 00:40:19,459
40 quid?
For a taxi.
722
00:40:19,499 --> 00:40:21,019
You know.
723
00:40:21,059 --> 00:40:22,539
Later.
724
00:40:22,579 --> 00:40:24,699
Oh, well, I would, but -
725
00:40:24,739 --> 00:40:26,739
Ey, do you remember that night?
726
00:40:26,779 --> 00:40:28,379
Yeah.
727
00:40:29,499 --> 00:40:32,299
God, that bitch of a son of a bitch
of a policewoman!
728
00:40:32,339 --> 00:40:34,419
She's just standing just over there.
729
00:40:34,459 --> 00:40:39,179
So if you could just see your way to
lending me a few bob, then, Pete...
730
00:40:39,219 --> 00:40:41,699
I'll... hit the road.
731
00:40:47,259 --> 00:40:49,059
Right. Right.
732
00:40:53,259 --> 00:40:55,659
There's 30 quid.
That's all I've got on me.
733
00:40:55,699 --> 00:40:57,539
Ta.
734
00:40:57,579 --> 00:40:59,579
How are you keeping, anyway?
735
00:40:59,619 --> 00:41:01,219
Yeah, good.
736
00:41:01,259 --> 00:41:04,979
Right. Well, I'll be loving you
and leaving you, then.
737
00:41:05,979 --> 00:41:07,459
Yeah.
738
00:41:15,299 --> 00:41:17,299
Come to Daddy, you little sod.
739
00:41:20,899 --> 00:41:23,059
Do you want a lift home?
740
00:41:23,099 --> 00:41:24,659
Hello, love!
741
00:41:29,979 --> 00:41:31,979
I'm driving you home.
742
00:41:40,819 --> 00:41:42,819
She's got him!
743
00:41:44,299 --> 00:41:45,859
We got him.
744
00:41:45,899 --> 00:41:48,139
She got him.
What? Just now.
745
00:41:48,179 --> 00:41:51,579
What's up. Oh, it was poetry.
You could not have invented it.
746
00:41:51,619 --> 00:41:53,859
Just one of those moments.
Where's Mrs Dodson?
747
00:41:53,899 --> 00:41:55,459
What happened?
We've got him.
748
00:41:55,499 --> 00:41:58,339
She's with Karen Zalinski.
He did that thing. What thing?
749
00:41:58,379 --> 00:42:00,179
That stupid thing.
750
00:42:00,219 --> 00:42:03,139
It's a mystery to me
how she could have done that.
751
00:42:03,179 --> 00:42:05,379
Butchered her own daughter.
752
00:42:06,619 --> 00:42:09,259
I said, 'How do you mean, Joe,
butchered?'
753
00:42:09,299 --> 00:42:11,699
And he said, 'Cutting her head off.'
754
00:42:11,739 --> 00:42:15,539
So, I said, 'Well, I never told you
that anyone cut her head off, Joe.'
755
00:42:15,579 --> 00:42:18,939
And then that look, that thing
that goes across their eyes.
756
00:42:18,979 --> 00:42:22,099
When they realise they've just put
their foot right in it
757
00:42:22,139 --> 00:42:25,099
and you've got them and they know
they're going down forever.
758
00:42:25,139 --> 00:42:28,659
That's when he called me...
It rhymes with stunt, runt, brunt.
759
00:42:28,699 --> 00:42:31,139
Let this be a lesson to you all.
760
00:42:31,179 --> 00:42:35,819
Psychopaths, clever, but never as
bloody clever as they like to think
they are. Well done, kid.
761
00:42:35,859 --> 00:42:38,939
I did nothing. I was in the right
place at the right time.
762
00:42:40,139 --> 00:42:41,859
Which makes a change.
763
00:42:57,419 --> 00:42:59,419
What's odd is that he ever stopped.
764
00:42:59,459 --> 00:43:02,779
Or appeared to. That's what we
couldn't work out yesterday.
765
00:43:02,819 --> 00:43:04,819
No. It's not that odd.
No, it is.
766
00:43:04,859 --> 00:43:08,899
Psychopaths. They just carry on
pushing the envelope, taking risks.
767
00:43:08,939 --> 00:43:13,219
That's generally how they end up
making a mistake.
They get complacent.
768
00:43:13,259 --> 00:43:17,219
Who have you been having
that conversation with?
Dodson. Gill. Pete.
769
00:43:18,059 --> 00:43:19,259
What?
770
00:43:19,299 --> 00:43:22,499
He was beaten up in October 1977,
like really badly.
771
00:43:22,539 --> 00:43:27,259
I read his medical records. God,
I'm amazed that nobody else has.
772
00:43:27,299 --> 00:43:29,019
He was hospitalised.
773
00:43:29,059 --> 00:43:32,779
Fractured skull, fractured pelvis,
a broken arm, broken nose,
774
00:43:32,819 --> 00:43:34,619
mashed-up scrotum.
775
00:43:34,659 --> 00:43:37,739
I mean, someone kicked the shit out
of him - literally.
776
00:43:37,779 --> 00:43:39,939
I'd like to think it was
Phil Cairns.
777
00:43:39,979 --> 00:43:42,779
Only I don't want to embarrass him
by asking him.
778
00:43:42,819 --> 00:43:44,819
You're so clever, aren't you?
779
00:43:44,859 --> 00:43:47,739
I'm telling you,
you'll be calling me ma'am one day.
780
00:43:47,779 --> 00:43:51,619
You're going to have to pass your
sergeant's exams first, though, eh.
781
00:43:51,659 --> 00:43:52,939
Oh!
782
00:43:52,979 --> 00:43:55,299
You're so funny, Janet.
Yep.
783
00:43:57,819 --> 00:44:00,499
I tell you what, I'm not looking
forward to this.
784
00:44:04,939 --> 00:44:06,339
Hello.
785
00:44:06,379 --> 00:44:08,979
Louise, it's Janet and Rachel
from the MMP.
786
00:44:09,019 --> 00:44:10,619
Can we come in?
787
00:44:13,099 --> 00:44:14,699
Helen.
788
00:44:15,779 --> 00:44:17,779
How are you feeling?
I'm all right.
789
00:44:19,259 --> 00:44:21,259
Do you want to sit down?
790
00:44:22,339 --> 00:44:23,939
Why?
791
00:44:25,859 --> 00:44:27,659
I'm sorry to have to tell you
792
00:44:27,699 --> 00:44:31,459
that you are being formally charged
with preventing a lawful burial.
793
00:44:31,499 --> 00:44:33,099
But...
794
00:44:33,139 --> 00:44:34,939
No. Hang on.
795
00:44:34,979 --> 00:44:37,379
We had an understanding.
We had a deal.
796
00:44:37,419 --> 00:44:39,659
I know. I'm sorry.
We did what we could.
797
00:44:39,699 --> 00:44:42,619
I did explain that we couldn't make
any guarantees.
798
00:44:42,659 --> 00:44:45,659
It's a decision that's been taken
over our heads.
799
00:44:49,939 --> 00:44:52,059
Do you want to get your coat?
Fuck you.
800
00:44:53,339 --> 00:44:55,339
No. I mean, really.
801
00:44:55,379 --> 00:44:57,579
Fuck you!
Helen! Helen!
802
00:45:01,179 --> 00:45:02,659
OK.
803
00:45:03,499 --> 00:45:05,499
Aah!
Nasty little bitch.
804
00:45:05,539 --> 00:45:09,179
I just don't believe that anyone
would set out to harm an elderly
person.
805
00:45:09,219 --> 00:45:11,219
Do you know anything about this?
806
00:45:12,419 --> 00:45:14,819
I did not send that.
807
00:45:14,859 --> 00:45:19,379
People are dying in there, because
that woman is a profit-obsessed
bitch.
808
00:45:19,419 --> 00:45:21,539
It's a murder inquiry.
Get everyone back to base.
809
00:45:21,568 --> 00:45:54,795
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