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1
00:02:29,403 --> 00:02:31,943
Go away, it's mine.
2
00:02:33,523 --> 00:02:35,483
It's mine, leave it.
3
00:02:35,483 --> 00:02:37,643
It's my turn.
4
00:02:48,361 --> 00:02:51,361
Whitewater massacre?
That was what, five years ago?
5
00:02:51,482 --> 00:02:53,402
Seven.
6
00:02:53,402 --> 00:02:57,582
December 7th 1996.
Did you get any fingerprints?
7
00:02:57,582 --> 00:03:02,102
Just the kids who found it. What,
they handed it in? What've we got?
8
00:03:02,102 --> 00:03:05,702
Police issue Glock pistol.
It certainly is, Mel.
9
00:03:05,702 --> 00:03:12,802
Registered to Sgt Nick Patterson
of the Tactical Firearms Unit.
He was killed in the massacre.
10
00:03:12,802 --> 00:03:18,222
Ballistics suggested Mackenzie used
Patterson's gun to kill his last two
victims. 13-year-old Debbie Thomas
11
00:03:18,222 --> 00:03:22,802
and Nick Patterson himself. Someone
tell me what this is doing here?
12
00:03:22,802 --> 00:03:28,262
It was found in a railway siding
10 miles from Whitewater.
That's why it's here?
13
00:03:28,262 --> 00:03:33,362
Someone buried the murder weapon
in a dump. So they want us
to re-open the case.
14
00:03:33,362 --> 00:03:37,702
So this is grounds
to re-open the case? Yeah, maybe.
15
00:03:39,642 --> 00:03:43,822
OK, send it back. What?
Put it in a box and send it back.
16
00:03:43,822 --> 00:03:50,222
But Mackenzie always maintained his
innocence. Yeah, set up by the real
gunman but there's no trace of him.
17
00:03:50,222 --> 00:03:56,882
They never found Patterson's gun,
but they found the gun Mackenzie
used to kill the first 12 victims.
18
00:03:56,882 --> 00:03:59,962
You're well informed.
Is there something we should know?
19
00:03:59,962 --> 00:04:03,982
Not at the moment. For the last
time - listening? Send it back.
20
00:04:13,562 --> 00:04:17,502
Do you want to talk?
No, not really.
21
00:04:18,682 --> 00:04:21,422
I'm out for a couple of hours. OK.
22
00:04:21,422 --> 00:04:25,882
Make sure that gun's not here
when I get back, all right?
23
00:04:33,284 --> 00:04:35,644
Morning, sir.
24
00:04:35,644 --> 00:04:37,964
Hi.
Thank you.
25
00:04:40,824 --> 00:04:43,004
Detective Superintendent Boyd.
26
00:04:43,004 --> 00:04:45,924
Yep, over here.
I'm Andrew Cross.
27
00:04:45,924 --> 00:04:48,064
Andrew?
28
00:04:48,064 --> 00:04:53,524
You were working with Nick
Patterson the day that... Yeah.
29
00:04:53,524 --> 00:04:55,764
Yeah, I remember.
I'm sorry.
30
00:04:55,764 --> 00:05:01,744
I'm an instructor here now. Right.
You want Robert, my father. Yeah.
He's on the range. Thank you.
31
00:05:23,184 --> 00:05:25,444
Clear. Clear.
32
00:05:25,444 --> 00:05:27,044
Clear.
33
00:05:27,044 --> 00:05:28,644
Clear.
34
00:05:28,644 --> 00:05:31,724
Detective Superintendent Boyd.
Peter Boyd.
35
00:05:31,724 --> 00:05:33,944
I'm Robert Cross. I run this dump.
36
00:05:33,944 --> 00:05:37,884
Beth Downing, my number two.
Beth. Hi.
37
00:05:37,884 --> 00:05:42,104
I... I know you. Yeah, we met
at Nick Patterson's funeral.
38
00:05:42,104 --> 00:05:48,544
I remember you. You and Nick were
at college together? Yeah, we were.
We...graduated together.
39
00:05:51,104 --> 00:05:54,964
I'd like a word with you,
please, if that's possible.
40
00:05:56,324 --> 00:05:58,644
Yeah, sure. The office.
41
00:05:58,644 --> 00:06:00,364
Sure.
42
00:06:00,364 --> 00:06:03,024
Thank you.
43
00:06:03,024 --> 00:06:08,344
This is about Nick's gun, right?
Yeah. Any idea who might've
moved it from the scene? None.
44
00:06:08,344 --> 00:06:12,344
But you must've given it
some thought. Of course.
45
00:06:12,344 --> 00:06:19,204
Before we cornered Mackenzie,
he could've thrown the gun into the
street. Maybe someone picked it up.
46
00:06:19,204 --> 00:06:23,404
You don't really believe that, do
you? Stranger things have happened.
47
00:06:23,404 --> 00:06:29,564
If you've any better ideas,
I'm all ears. How much do you know
about the original investigation?
48
00:06:29,564 --> 00:06:34,144
Carried out by DCI Nesbit and
good enough to convince the jury.
49
00:06:34,144 --> 00:06:38,084
It wasn't thorough -
no ID parade or DNA evidence,
50
00:06:38,084 --> 00:06:42,224
no restrictions on the Press who
put Mackenzie's face in the papers.
51
00:06:42,224 --> 00:06:49,324
No restrictions because you caught
him red-handed? Plus Nesbit didn't
want the survivors to suffer more.
52
00:06:49,324 --> 00:06:51,644
Which I can understand.
53
00:06:51,644 --> 00:06:55,184
My point being,
the case doesn't bear scrutiny.
54
00:06:55,184 --> 00:06:59,484
So if you want Nick's killer
to stay in jail, I'd look away now.
55
00:06:59,484 --> 00:07:03,964
I hadn't decided to re-open
the case. What are you doing here?
56
00:07:03,964 --> 00:07:07,924
Nick Patterson was
a friend of mine.
57
00:07:07,924 --> 00:07:10,204
Oh, yeah, of course.
58
00:07:12,464 --> 00:07:15,324
You know, he told me once
59
00:07:15,324 --> 00:07:19,704
I was the father he never had
and you were the elder brother.
60
00:07:19,704 --> 00:07:24,024
I won't ask what he said behind
my back. I wouldn't tell you.
61
00:07:26,244 --> 00:07:29,264
You know what the real mystery is?
62
00:07:29,264 --> 00:07:33,804
How Mackenzie got Nick's gun off
him in the first place? Exactly.
63
00:07:33,804 --> 00:07:36,484
Dad. You need to see this.
64
00:07:37,924 --> 00:07:44,404
'Like Hungerford and Dunblane,
the name Whitewater will live
long in public memory.
65
00:07:44,404 --> 00:07:49,824
'Sgt Nick Patterson was among 14
murdered in the Whitewater massacre
seven years ago.
66
00:07:49,824 --> 00:07:55,884
'The disappearance of his gun
was one of many unanswered questions
about that tragic day.
67
00:07:55,884 --> 00:08:01,304
'Ballistic evidence suggested
he was murdered with his own gun -
a police issue Glock.
68
00:08:01,304 --> 00:08:03,984
'But the gun itself was never found.
69
00:08:03,984 --> 00:08:08,504
'Yesterday, two boys aged 10 and 11
discovered the pistol
70
00:08:08,504 --> 00:08:11,924
'at Normanhurst Sidings,
10 miles from Whitewater.
71
00:08:11,924 --> 00:08:16,024
'Lawyers for Carl Mackenzie
say that yesterday's discovery
72
00:08:16,024 --> 00:08:19,344
'throws into question
the safety of his conviction.'
73
00:08:32,056 --> 00:08:34,836
Peter!
Hello, Sally.
74
00:08:36,076 --> 00:08:38,236
Can I come in?
75
00:08:38,236 --> 00:08:40,316
Thank you.
76
00:08:40,316 --> 00:08:44,996
What does it mean? Probably nothing.
Someone just probably
77
00:08:44,996 --> 00:08:51,296
picked the gun up, but then
didn't want it in the house. That's
Robert's story. I'm borrowing it.
78
00:08:51,296 --> 00:08:58,396
You don't believe it any more than
he does. Do you think there's any
possibility Mackenzie's innocent?
79
00:08:58,396 --> 00:09:02,556
I...don't think there is,
personally, no.
80
00:09:02,556 --> 00:09:08,716
At first, I almost felt sorry
for him. That didn't last lost long.
I hate him more than ever now.
81
00:09:08,716 --> 00:09:13,316
I curse the day his mother gave
birth to him. That sounds awful.
82
00:09:13,316 --> 00:09:15,596
It sounds fair enough to me.
83
00:09:17,476 --> 00:09:21,596
Sally, after Nick died,
you never returned my calls.
84
00:09:21,596 --> 00:09:24,616
No. Why didn't you?
85
00:09:24,616 --> 00:09:30,136
I'm sorry. That doesn't answer
my question, though, does it?
86
00:09:30,136 --> 00:09:34,656
When I first met Nick,
you were always together.
87
00:09:34,656 --> 00:09:38,496
I suppose you remind me of him
too much.
88
00:09:38,496 --> 00:09:41,816
That's the reason? Yes.
89
00:09:43,416 --> 00:09:47,256
That's the only reason?
Isn't that enough?
90
00:09:48,796 --> 00:09:51,336
Yeah, I suppose it is.
91
00:09:52,896 --> 00:09:56,876
Thanks for coming, Peter.
You're a good friend...
92
00:09:56,876 --> 00:09:58,916
even if I'm not.
93
00:10:42,436 --> 00:10:47,116
Boyd. Stephen Markland, Carl
Mackenzie's lawyer, to see you. OK.
94
00:10:47,116 --> 00:10:49,496
Mr Markland, what do you want?
95
00:10:49,496 --> 00:10:55,556
My client has applied for leave
to appeal. Against his sentence
or his conviction? His conviction.
96
00:10:55,556 --> 00:11:00,876
You came to tell me that? No,
but whatever evidence you uncover
in your investigation...
97
00:11:00,876 --> 00:11:06,716
What investigation? ..relating
to my client's guilt or innocence
you are bound to share with me.
98
00:11:06,716 --> 00:11:11,356
No, I share it with the CPS, then
they decide. That's false modesty.
99
00:11:11,356 --> 00:11:18,396
Wait till there's an appeal before
wasting my time. We'll be heard
promptly, given the new evidence.
100
00:11:18,396 --> 00:11:23,436
We're not here to give you a hard
time. That's very kind of you.
Who are you?
101
00:11:23,436 --> 00:11:28,056
Fiona Mackenzie. Carl's sister.
We just want justice for my brother.
102
00:11:28,056 --> 00:11:35,176
He never owned or even fired a gun
in his life. He couldn't have killed
all those people. It's impossible!
103
00:11:35,176 --> 00:11:40,876
Fiona... I just want the truth.
Is that what you want? Of course.
104
00:11:40,876 --> 00:11:45,116
Even if it means
my brother going free? Mm-hm.
105
00:11:45,116 --> 00:11:47,276
Excuse me.
106
00:11:50,216 --> 00:11:53,816
You really should have
left that to me.
107
00:12:00,096 --> 00:12:04,636
Frankie? Uh-huh.
Did you send the gun back? No.
108
00:12:05,756 --> 00:12:07,236
Good.
109
00:12:09,576 --> 00:12:13,996
Why didn't you send it back?
Because I knew you didn't mean it.
110
00:12:17,336 --> 00:12:18,716
Good.
111
00:12:20,576 --> 00:12:24,796
This is where Mackenzie was born and
where the Whitewater massacre began.
112
00:12:24,796 --> 00:12:31,316
It was midday, December 7th '96,
when Mackenzie pulled up in
a VW camper and went into the house.
113
00:12:31,316 --> 00:12:35,736
How long has this place been empty?
About seven months.
114
00:12:35,736 --> 00:12:39,336
Talk me through it, Spence. Right.
Shut the door.
115
00:12:39,336 --> 00:12:45,216
Carl entered this room here,
where his father, Brian, and his
mother, Linda, were watching TV.
116
00:12:45,216 --> 00:12:48,136
TV is...? Was? There. OK.
117
00:12:48,136 --> 00:12:54,756
After arguing, he shot them with
a Heckler and Koch MP5 carbine.
Bodies? They were here.
118
00:12:54,756 --> 00:13:00,556
How do we know about the argument?
Fiona. His sister Fiona
was upstairs in her bedroom.
119
00:13:00,556 --> 00:13:07,416
She said the male voice wasn't her
brother's. The jury didn't believe
her. So she didn't see anything.
120
00:13:07,416 --> 00:13:11,616
The MP5's a really serious gun.
Where did he get it? Good question.
121
00:13:11,616 --> 00:13:17,816
Don't know the answer. Isn't it in
the file? The original investigation
wasn't comprehensive. Why not?
122
00:13:17,816 --> 00:13:22,076
Because they caught Carl Mackenzie
at the scene and got complacent.
123
00:13:26,056 --> 00:13:31,076
OK, at about 12.30, Carl Mackenzie
arrives here on this floor.
124
00:13:31,076 --> 00:13:34,816
Where exactly?
Here. Sixth bay on the west side.
125
00:13:34,816 --> 00:13:39,176
He leaves the VW and goes to Martin
and Emma Corgan in a Range Rover.
126
00:13:39,176 --> 00:13:42,996
Where was it parked?
Bay 2, west ramp, here.
127
00:13:42,996 --> 00:13:49,256
He reaches the bonnet of the Range
Rover, fires through the windscreen
at the Corgans.
128
00:13:49,256 --> 00:13:53,376
Then what? Emma Corgan dies.
Not straight away.
129
00:13:53,376 --> 00:13:59,096
Martin Corgan played dead
with his wife lying next to him
who took 30 minutes to die.
130
00:13:59,096 --> 00:14:04,796
He's the principal witness against
Mackenzie. Why didn't Corgan drive
off? He was in the passenger seat.
131
00:14:04,796 --> 00:14:09,576
All right. So, then Mackenzie
positioned himself over here,
132
00:14:09,576 --> 00:14:15,256
between his van and the wall
where he opened fire on
the shoppers in the street below.
133
00:14:15,256 --> 00:14:21,096
In 30 minutes, he killed 9 people,
including William and Nick Glass,
killed by the same bullet.
134
00:14:24,956 --> 00:14:28,096
ECHOING SHOTS RING OUT
135
00:14:53,516 --> 00:14:54,876
Sally.
136
00:14:54,876 --> 00:14:57,276
Hello, my darling.
137
00:14:58,816 --> 00:15:02,936
Hi, Sally. Hi, Andrew. Are you
all right? Tea or something?
138
00:15:02,936 --> 00:15:05,096
No, I'm fine.
139
00:15:12,076 --> 00:15:14,956
Hello, everyone. I'm Dave Saunders.
140
00:15:14,956 --> 00:15:19,396
Welcome to this unofficial meeting
of the Whitewater Survivors Group.
141
00:15:19,396 --> 00:15:25,516
As I'm sure you're aware,
Carl Mackenzie has again applied
to appeal against his conviction.
142
00:15:25,516 --> 00:15:33,176
This time, he has a greater chance
of success. That doesn't mean he'll
win his appeal, but he'll be heard.
143
00:15:35,336 --> 00:15:42,636
At 1.05, the Tactical Firearms Unit
arrived, moving up stairwells,
clearing each floor as they went.
144
00:15:44,096 --> 00:15:48,836
This is where Nick Patterson
and Debbie Thomas were found.
145
00:15:48,836 --> 00:15:59,436
They'd both been shot - not with
the MP5 like the others - but with
Nick Patterson's Glock pistol.
146
00:15:59,436 --> 00:16:02,836
Where was his partner,
PC Andrew Cross?
147
00:16:02,836 --> 00:16:07,956
He was upstairs and didn't
come down until it was all over.
Maybe Mackenzie surprised him.
148
00:16:07,956 --> 00:16:13,996
Nick wasn't here to go shopping.
This is what he lived for. What if
Mackenzie had Debbie at gunpoint?
149
00:16:13,996 --> 00:16:25,596
He'd never surrender his gun. He'd
back off and keep the area secure.
What if he was gonna shoot her?
150
00:16:25,596 --> 00:16:29,816
We joined the force and trained
together. We were good friends.
151
00:16:29,816 --> 00:16:34,996
D'you think Mackenzie's guilty?
Doesn't matter what I think.
It does. You lost a friend. Yeah.
152
00:16:34,996 --> 00:16:41,336
Should Mackenzie stay in jail? If
we do our job properly, Mackenzie
will get what he deserves.
153
00:16:43,816 --> 00:16:49,956
While I know it's only right
that we do all we can
to keep Carl Mackenzie locked up,
154
00:16:49,956 --> 00:16:52,916
we should try to forgive him.
155
00:16:52,916 --> 00:16:57,716
Ah, no! I can't hear that.
Sorry, Dave. I can't hear that.
156
00:16:57,716 --> 00:17:02,076
Sit down, Martin.
We're in this together. We're what?
157
00:17:02,076 --> 00:17:06,676
You heard. You lost your colleague.
I lost my wife.
158
00:17:06,676 --> 00:17:11,936
You just did your job. You
shouldn't even be here. Come here.
159
00:17:11,936 --> 00:17:14,116
Come here!
160
00:17:21,236 --> 00:17:26,916
Nick Patterson was like a son
to me, but that's not the point.
161
00:17:26,916 --> 00:17:29,656
We don't compare war wounds. Do we?
162
00:17:32,596 --> 00:17:38,616
If we did,
Sue Glass would win hands down.
She lost her whole family.
163
00:17:45,516 --> 00:17:47,616
Carry on, Dave.
164
00:17:47,616 --> 00:17:54,596
Thanks, Robert. I'm sorry, Martin,
but everyone here has suffered
some sort of bereavement or injury.
165
00:17:54,596 --> 00:17:58,536
The point is
that now we must look forward.
166
00:18:02,596 --> 00:18:04,676
Why did you blank me, Sally?
167
00:18:04,676 --> 00:18:06,756
Excuse me.
168
00:18:06,756 --> 00:18:10,236
Don't ever blame me
for what happened to Nick.
169
00:18:10,236 --> 00:18:12,416
Why not?
170
00:18:12,416 --> 00:18:16,476
You lost him
years before Whitewater.
171
00:18:16,476 --> 00:18:19,076
What are you trying to prove, Beth?
172
00:18:20,756 --> 00:18:23,636
You think I'm a freak, don't you?
173
00:18:23,636 --> 00:18:26,836
Where are my kids,
where's my husband?
174
00:18:26,836 --> 00:18:28,956
I don't think about you at all.
175
00:18:30,616 --> 00:18:36,576
Mackenzie came to the top floor
and was cornered by Robert Cross
and Beth Downing of the TFU.
176
00:18:36,576 --> 00:18:41,916
Beth shot him in the hand and
shoulder. The force of the bullet
knocked him over the parapet.
177
00:18:41,916 --> 00:18:48,636
At his height, he wouldn't have gone
over. Standing on this bumper rail
raises him 18 inches. Why do that?
178
00:18:48,636 --> 00:18:51,156
Get a better shot.
But why did she shoot him?
179
00:18:51,156 --> 00:18:57,756
He refused to give up his gun.
He fell 50ft. He was in a coma
for two months, but still survived.
180
00:18:57,756 --> 00:19:01,996
That's not natural.
Well, it happened.
181
00:19:01,996 --> 00:19:08,676
Mackenzie was driving this on the
day of the massacre, but there's no
registration document or paperwork.
182
00:19:08,676 --> 00:19:14,516
The report says it was stolen
but there's no record of it -
so how did they know?
183
00:19:14,516 --> 00:19:18,796
How did they know? We've got to
get to the firearms unit, Frankie.
184
00:19:20,276 --> 00:19:22,816
Guns and bullets, ballistics.
185
00:19:22,816 --> 00:19:27,116
How are your ballistics?
Fine, thank you for asking.
186
00:19:27,116 --> 00:19:33,796
We've got to find out exactly
what happened in that car park.
Second by second.
187
00:19:33,796 --> 00:19:36,476
OK. OK? Uh-huh.
188
00:19:39,096 --> 00:19:43,556
This is CCTV footage from a bank
in Whitewater High Street.
189
00:19:50,336 --> 00:19:51,896
Why?
190
00:20:15,816 --> 00:20:18,316
Sorry. You ready? Yeah.
191
00:20:18,316 --> 00:20:23,136
Why don't you want to talk to him?
I remember him in court. Oh, yeah?
192
00:20:23,136 --> 00:20:25,836
He'll like you more, Mel.
193
00:20:25,836 --> 00:20:32,236
I don't know why I'm here. We're
sorry to have to put you through it
all again, Martin. But...?
194
00:20:32,236 --> 00:20:36,296
You were the main eyewitness. That
makes you a very important person.
195
00:20:36,296 --> 00:20:41,736
No, it makes me an important
witness. You don't give a shit
about me, so don't pretend to.
196
00:20:44,836 --> 00:20:51,456
The original investigation didn't
answer some questions. Don't knock
DCI Nesbit. He was a good guy.
197
00:20:51,456 --> 00:20:55,756
Nobody's knocking anyone. We just
want to understand what happened.
198
00:21:02,076 --> 00:21:06,996
It was Saturday morning. We'd just
done the weekly supermarket shop.
199
00:21:08,896 --> 00:21:12,996
My wife got in the driving seat
while I put the shopping in.
200
00:21:12,996 --> 00:21:18,076
And did your wife normally drive?
We sort of took it in turns.
201
00:21:19,736 --> 00:21:22,476
I got into the passenger seat
202
00:21:22,476 --> 00:21:25,216
and when I looked up,
203
00:21:25,216 --> 00:21:29,816
I saw this guy...
holding a machine gun.
204
00:21:43,776 --> 00:21:49,756
According to your statement
on December 8th, you threw yourself
across your wife.
205
00:21:51,776 --> 00:21:53,716
I was...
206
00:21:53,716 --> 00:21:55,816
I was too slow.
207
00:21:55,816 --> 00:22:00,416
But it saved your life. The other
bullet went into your seat. Yeah.
208
00:22:00,416 --> 00:22:04,676
If I'd just been quicker. It sounds
as if you had little choice.
209
00:22:08,356 --> 00:22:15,356
I heard her groan. Blood trickled
down her nose and she was trying to
speak. You must've been terrified.
210
00:22:15,356 --> 00:22:18,336
Yeah. You weren't injured at all?
211
00:22:18,336 --> 00:22:20,276
No, er...
212
00:22:20,276 --> 00:22:23,036
In that respect, I was very lucky.
213
00:22:24,276 --> 00:22:27,636
But, for the next half an hour,
214
00:22:27,636 --> 00:22:32,456
I lay there
while my wife died next to me.
215
00:22:34,996 --> 00:22:37,076
Help me.
216
00:22:37,076 --> 00:22:39,196
It'll be OK.
217
00:22:39,196 --> 00:22:41,716
Help me. Ssh. OK.
218
00:22:41,716 --> 00:22:43,176
OK.
219
00:22:46,936 --> 00:22:49,156
Maybe...
220
00:22:49,156 --> 00:22:53,796
Maybe if I'd tried to move her
and drive off...
221
00:22:53,796 --> 00:22:57,916
He'd have heard the engine, surely?
Yeah, he was right in front of me.
222
00:22:57,916 --> 00:23:00,236
You could see him?
223
00:23:00,236 --> 00:23:04,256
Well, I was playing dead
most of the time.
224
00:23:06,456 --> 00:23:09,216
Sorry, you had your eyes closed?
225
00:23:11,096 --> 00:23:13,216
I suppose so.
226
00:23:13,216 --> 00:23:17,516
Then you couldn't have seen
Carl Mackenzie?
227
00:23:17,516 --> 00:23:19,716
That's enough, Mel.
228
00:23:19,716 --> 00:23:25,996
I didn't say that. I said most of
the time. Did you or didn't you see
Carl Mackenzie? 'Wrap it up, Mel.'
229
00:23:25,996 --> 00:23:31,956
Yes, I did. You want to know
how I can remember? Please, yes.
230
00:23:31,956 --> 00:23:37,116
Cos every time he fired the gun,
I thought the bullet was for me.
231
00:23:37,116 --> 00:23:38,996
Wrap it up, Mel.
232
00:23:38,996 --> 00:23:42,476
So I couldn't help open my eyes.
233
00:23:42,476 --> 00:23:44,456
'Wrap it up, Mel.'
234
00:23:47,476 --> 00:23:49,796
OK. Thank you, Mr Corgan.
235
00:23:52,276 --> 00:23:55,176
Interview terminated, 10.45.
236
00:24:01,496 --> 00:24:03,476
Boyd?
237
00:24:03,476 --> 00:24:05,856
Boyd? Yeah?
238
00:24:05,856 --> 00:24:13,036
Did you know that Carl Mackenzie
was engaged? To a very rich old
lady. I think I remember, yeah.
239
00:24:13,036 --> 00:24:16,476
Monica Reynolds,
heir to Reynolds Mining plc.
240
00:24:16,476 --> 00:24:23,476
How did these two get together?
He restored some furniture for her.
He had a taste for gentrification.
241
00:24:23,476 --> 00:24:29,556
At school, he liked to be called
Oscar and told them his father
was titled. Anything else?
242
00:24:29,556 --> 00:24:36,456
Two years before, he was diagnosed
with paranoid personality disorder
and dependent personality disorder.
243
00:24:36,456 --> 00:24:41,156
What's the dependent one about?
Well, a need for nurturance,
244
00:24:41,156 --> 00:24:45,716
overwhelming fear of abandonment,
family opinion is critical to them.
245
00:24:45,716 --> 00:24:51,076
Might that explain
why he killed his parents? Maybe.
Convenient theory, isn't it?
246
00:24:51,076 --> 00:24:57,416
It certainly doesn't explain the
massacre. What about his story of
being abducted by the real gunman?
247
00:24:57,416 --> 00:25:03,116
Whatever you think of it,
it may be good to hear it from him.
We can't make him talk.
248
00:25:03,116 --> 00:25:09,316
He'd only talk about the "real"
gunman. You don't have to be there.
Why wouldn't I want to be there?
249
00:25:09,316 --> 00:25:16,036
Cos you're scared how you'll react
when you come face to face with
Nick's killer. I don't blame you.
250
00:25:17,276 --> 00:25:20,196
You're clever, aren't you?
Just a bit.
251
00:25:20,196 --> 00:25:24,256
OK. We'll talk to the sister first.
You can do that.
252
00:25:24,256 --> 00:25:25,596
Right.
253
00:25:30,496 --> 00:25:35,176
I'm only here because my brother's
lawyer told me to cooperate.
254
00:25:35,176 --> 00:25:41,876
Thanks for coming in, anyway.
How would you describe Carl's
relationship with your parents?
255
00:25:41,876 --> 00:25:44,376
He loved them and they loved him.
256
00:25:44,376 --> 00:25:48,536
We're not asking if you think he
killed them. Not in so many words.
257
00:25:48,536 --> 00:25:51,296
Look, I've read your statement.
258
00:25:51,296 --> 00:25:58,216
You said the voice downstairs
before your parents were shot
was a stranger's and I believe you.
259
00:25:58,216 --> 00:26:04,416
Dad thought Carl looked down his
nose at him, but he couldn't have
been more wrong - he worshipped him.
260
00:26:04,416 --> 00:26:07,816
What did your dad think of Monica?
261
00:26:07,816 --> 00:26:10,676
She was a character.
262
00:26:10,676 --> 00:26:15,276
Like Carl? Yeah, they were
well suited apart from the age gap.
263
00:26:15,276 --> 00:26:17,536
What about her son - Guy?
264
00:26:17,536 --> 00:26:19,116
No.
265
00:26:19,116 --> 00:26:21,416
I didn't like him.
266
00:26:21,416 --> 00:26:24,216
I didn't trust him.
267
00:26:26,496 --> 00:26:29,996
Carl thought
Dad was having him followed.
268
00:26:29,996 --> 00:26:35,256
I didn't think anything of it
to start with. Carl always thought
people were following him.
269
00:26:35,256 --> 00:26:41,316
Why would your dad have him
followed? Exactly.
I said, "Don't be stupid!
270
00:26:41,316 --> 00:26:49,256
"If anyone has a reason to check you
out, it's Guy. You're marrying his
mum." But Carl wouldn't hear it.
271
00:26:49,256 --> 00:26:52,876
He liked Guy, yeah? He loved Guy.
272
00:26:52,876 --> 00:26:55,276
He was everything Carl wanted to be.
273
00:26:57,076 --> 00:27:01,696
When Guy told Carl he was like
a brother to him, Carl lapped it up.
274
00:27:01,696 --> 00:27:04,236
But I didn't buy it.
275
00:27:04,236 --> 00:27:10,456
Fiona, are you prepared
to talk to us about what happened
the morning of the massacre?
276
00:27:12,676 --> 00:27:15,356
All right - if it'll help Carl.
277
00:27:18,936 --> 00:27:25,156
I was upstairs in my old bedroom.
You were still living at home?
No, I was three-months pregnant.
278
00:27:25,156 --> 00:27:30,036
'My mum said why don't I come home
for the weekend and she'd spoil me.
279
00:27:30,036 --> 00:27:34,036
'I had the TV on
and I heard the doorbell.'
280
00:27:34,036 --> 00:27:36,576
DOORBELL RINGS
281
00:27:36,576 --> 00:27:40,596
'Then I heard this voice.
A man's voice.
282
00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:43,136
'It wasn't Carl, no way.
283
00:27:43,136 --> 00:27:47,516
'It was a deep voice
and he was angry.'
284
00:27:47,516 --> 00:27:50,456
MUFFLED VOICE, THEN GUNSHOTS
285
00:28:05,176 --> 00:28:07,136
I was very lucky.
286
00:28:13,436 --> 00:28:16,076
What happened to your baby?
287
00:28:21,016 --> 00:28:24,376
I had a miscarriage. Little girl.
288
00:28:26,296 --> 00:28:32,196
I lost her father, too.
I mean, who wants to be
with Carl Mackenzie's sister?
289
00:28:41,302 --> 00:28:43,462
Dr Wharton?
290
00:28:43,462 --> 00:28:47,522
Hi. You're not what I expected.
Oh, sorry.
291
00:28:47,522 --> 00:28:52,902
No, it's a pleasant surprise.
I hope I can help. I'm
Andrew Cross. How do you do? Hi.
292
00:28:52,902 --> 00:28:59,442
I run courses for firearm officers,
refresher and beginners. So you're
not an operational team member?
293
00:28:59,442 --> 00:29:06,002
No. They want us to handle
firearms and shotgun licensing too,
so I'll get home even less.
294
00:29:06,002 --> 00:29:10,822
Have you a family? One day. You?
Not yet. This is Dr Wharton.
295
00:29:10,822 --> 00:29:12,902
Frankie, please.
Beth Downing.
296
00:29:12,902 --> 00:29:18,582
This gun is similar to the one
Mackenzie used at the massacre -
a Heckler and Koch MP5.
297
00:29:18,582 --> 00:29:24,622
Similar, but not identical?
His was a Turkish import,
but it's basically the same gun.
298
00:29:24,622 --> 00:29:29,342
It's a lightweight weapon that
can be shouldered or hand fired.
299
00:29:29,342 --> 00:29:36,362
Real name "HK54", but it got
the name "MP5" from the West German
Border Guard during the Cold War.
300
00:29:36,362 --> 00:29:42,382
I'm sure Dr Wharton didn't
come here for a history lesson.
No, it's very interesting.
301
00:29:42,382 --> 00:29:46,722
Did you know Carl Mackenzie had
no firearms experience whatsoever?
302
00:29:46,722 --> 00:29:49,302
You wouldn't need much for this.
303
00:29:51,602 --> 00:29:54,442
OK. Your gun is ready to fire.
304
00:29:54,442 --> 00:29:59,422
Look down and aim through the
sight. Just squeeze off gently, OK?
305
00:30:06,262 --> 00:30:08,962
My God, there's no recoil!
306
00:30:24,362 --> 00:30:28,322
See? Anyone can do it.
That was good.
307
00:30:30,122 --> 00:30:34,282
How hard would it be to get hold
of one of these? Illegally?
308
00:30:34,282 --> 00:30:37,122
Well, yeah. I don't know. Why?
309
00:30:37,122 --> 00:30:39,742
Well, if Carl Mackenzie is guilty...
310
00:30:39,742 --> 00:30:43,882
Carl Mackenzie is a convicted
murderer. Of course.
311
00:30:43,882 --> 00:30:47,262
He also tried to kill me. Carry on.
I'm sorry.
312
00:30:47,262 --> 00:30:52,042
What's your question? Haven't you
wondered how he got hold of the gun?
313
00:30:52,042 --> 00:30:56,722
A Turkish import? It's never crossed
my mind. Well, it's crossed mine.
314
00:30:56,722 --> 00:31:02,462
Without any contacts, it'd
be tricky, especially the Turkish
model. I don't... OK, Andrew.
315
00:31:05,042 --> 00:31:07,822
What are you trying to unpick here?
316
00:31:07,822 --> 00:31:11,022
Nothing. Nothing at all.
317
00:31:11,022 --> 00:31:14,082
Thank you for showing me around.
318
00:31:14,082 --> 00:31:17,262
I'll show you out. Thanks.
319
00:31:18,322 --> 00:31:20,502
Boyd? Yes.
320
00:31:20,502 --> 00:31:26,262
I've just seen Andrew Cross.
He said the gun Mackenzie used
wasn't just an MP5.
321
00:31:26,262 --> 00:31:28,402
It was an Turkish import. So?
322
00:31:28,402 --> 00:31:35,082
Cross said he couldn't have got hold
of it without serious connections.
He had a record for fare dodging...
323
00:31:35,082 --> 00:31:37,182
Maybe he had serious connections.
324
00:31:37,182 --> 00:31:41,382
Who with? He lived with an old biddy
and restored furniture for a living!
325
00:31:41,382 --> 00:31:48,722
Carl Mackenzie got hold of a gun.
I don't know where from, who from.
It doesn't matter. He had a gun.
326
00:31:48,722 --> 00:31:51,582
It's very illuminating. Thank you.
327
00:31:51,582 --> 00:31:55,842
I've researched indiscriminate
killers. Spree killers?
328
00:31:55,842 --> 00:32:00,962
Apart from one factor, Mackenzie
doesn't fit. What's the profile?
329
00:32:00,962 --> 00:32:05,442
The limited cases available suggest
the killers are single and lonely -
330
00:32:05,442 --> 00:32:09,622
which Carl Mackenzie wasn't - and
that they're obsessed with guns.
331
00:32:09,622 --> 00:32:17,422
As a sexual compensation thing? No,
you'd expect an excessive interest
in guns prior to offending.
332
00:32:17,422 --> 00:32:22,142
Mackenzie didn't have a gun, he'd
never applied for a licence for...
333
00:32:22,142 --> 00:32:26,082
You said in one respect
he DID fit the profile. He's a man.
334
00:32:26,082 --> 00:32:28,842
Well...sorry, boys.
335
00:32:28,842 --> 00:32:33,822
OK. Mel, where is he held?
Bridwell High Security Unit.
336
00:32:33,822 --> 00:32:38,222
OK, make some calls. What are
you going to do? Bring him here.
337
00:32:38,222 --> 00:32:44,102
Are YOU going to see him? I thought
we could do the interview together.
Together. OK. Thank you.
338
00:33:12,402 --> 00:33:15,842
Sit down, please. Thank you.
339
00:33:19,382 --> 00:33:22,122
Carl Mackenzie. DSI Boyd.
340
00:33:22,122 --> 00:33:26,042
This is Dr Grace Foley.
Grace. Hello. Markland,
341
00:33:26,042 --> 00:33:30,082
Stephen Markland. Hi.
Please... Thank you.
342
00:33:33,502 --> 00:33:35,302
So...
343
00:33:36,702 --> 00:33:41,682
..what do you do to make ends meet,
Grace? I'm a forensic psychologist.
344
00:33:42,982 --> 00:33:47,722
Ah. I did mention that.
Is that a problem?
345
00:33:47,722 --> 00:33:49,802
Don't know.
346
00:33:49,802 --> 00:33:52,642
Do you have open minds? Of course.
347
00:33:54,482 --> 00:33:56,562
Do YOU?
348
00:33:56,562 --> 00:33:58,042
Yes.
349
00:33:59,242 --> 00:34:03,462
Good. Because Stephen was absolutely
against me doing this interview,
350
00:34:03,462 --> 00:34:08,002
but, I, on the other hand, am a firm
believer in giving people a chance.
351
00:34:08,002 --> 00:34:10,102
Yeah. So are we.
352
00:34:11,362 --> 00:34:16,722
Good. Perhaps we can...help
each other, then. I'm sure we can.
353
00:34:16,722 --> 00:34:23,122
Carl, I'd like to start
by asking you a few questions
about events before the massacre.
354
00:34:23,122 --> 00:34:26,902
I believe you were engaged
to Monica Reynolds.
355
00:34:26,902 --> 00:34:29,682
How did that relationship start?
356
00:34:29,682 --> 00:34:34,662
I worked for her as a handyman,
restoring furniture and things.
357
00:34:34,662 --> 00:34:37,522
We fell in love.
358
00:34:37,522 --> 00:34:41,822
People presumed it was because
of Monica's wealth, but it wasn't.
359
00:34:41,822 --> 00:34:46,342
By people, you mean Monica's son?
No. I got on very well with Guy.
360
00:34:46,342 --> 00:34:53,622
He didn't mind you marrying his
mother? No. Not at all. He threw
a sublime engagement party for us.
361
00:34:53,622 --> 00:34:58,702
Did your parents go? No, my
sister went. Why didn't they go?
362
00:34:58,702 --> 00:35:04,002
My father couldn't see why I wanted
to marry Monica. Did that annoy you?
363
00:35:04,002 --> 00:35:09,262
You mean, did it make me
want to go and blow his brains out?
364
00:35:09,262 --> 00:35:14,382
No, Detective Boyd. In fact, it
made me... It made me terribly sad.
365
00:35:14,382 --> 00:35:19,122
Because you were happy
and you wanted him to share it?
366
00:35:19,122 --> 00:35:24,322
I should've expected it, really.
You see, my father was a builder.
367
00:35:24,322 --> 00:35:29,282
I loved him to bits and pieces,
but it was stamped on his soul.
368
00:35:29,282 --> 00:35:35,522
It's funny, because he thought
there'd been a frightful hospital
mix-up and I was the son of a Duke.
369
00:35:36,682 --> 00:35:41,762
You see, that's why I'm here.
You see, I'm... I'm different.
370
00:35:41,762 --> 00:35:45,102
That's why you're here?
That's why I was chosen.
371
00:35:45,102 --> 00:35:50,862
Before everyone panics, not by
the Devil or God or anything, but...
372
00:35:52,722 --> 00:35:55,362
..I was chosen by someone.
373
00:35:56,502 --> 00:35:59,102
Please, don't stop now.
374
00:35:59,102 --> 00:36:05,642
Detective Boyd, were you personally
involved in the massacre? No.
Do you know someone who was?
375
00:36:07,022 --> 00:36:09,842
Yes. Yes, I do.
376
00:36:11,542 --> 00:36:15,982
Let me guess... Oh, yes -
the policeman, Nick Patterson,
377
00:36:15,982 --> 00:36:20,322
the one who was found
killed inside the stairwell?
378
00:36:21,362 --> 00:36:24,322
Well, you have my sympathy.
379
00:36:26,782 --> 00:36:29,682
I said, you have my sympathy.
380
00:36:34,002 --> 00:36:38,422
Right, Stephen, this is a complete
waste of time. That's our decision.
381
00:36:38,422 --> 00:36:44,902
I have an open mind. I wouldn't
be here if... I think you just
want the inside story on my appeal.
382
00:36:44,902 --> 00:36:48,482
If your story's true,
you have nothing to hide.
383
00:36:48,482 --> 00:36:52,402
My client has made his feelings
clear. Let's... Sit down.
384
00:36:54,102 --> 00:37:01,642
If the person who killed my friend
is walking free, I'd like to meet
him. You and I can help each other.
385
00:37:07,422 --> 00:37:09,422
Yes, fair enough.
386
00:37:12,142 --> 00:37:14,662
Right, well...
387
00:37:14,662 --> 00:37:19,742
it started as I took my dog, Fred,
to Whitewater Common,
388
00:37:19,742 --> 00:37:24,622
like I normally do each morning, for
a walk. That day was no different.
389
00:37:25,962 --> 00:37:30,342
I was crossing the car park, when
I noticed the camper van to my left.
390
00:37:30,342 --> 00:37:33,122
Why did you notice it?
391
00:37:33,122 --> 00:37:38,962
It looked scruffy. It was
an interesting shade of blue...
out of place.
392
00:37:40,142 --> 00:37:43,722
There's this wooded area
beyond the car park
393
00:37:43,722 --> 00:37:48,342
and Fred used to run down there
every time I let him off the lead.
394
00:37:48,342 --> 00:37:51,722
GUNSHOT
395
00:37:51,722 --> 00:37:53,822
'I heard a shot.'
396
00:37:53,822 --> 00:37:58,422
FRED!
'I called for him for a moment
and then I went down there.'
397
00:37:58,422 --> 00:38:03,082
You ran towards the shot? ..Yes.
398
00:38:03,082 --> 00:38:07,122
You weren't scared? I loved my dog.
399
00:38:08,222 --> 00:38:09,442
Oh.
400
00:38:09,442 --> 00:38:11,042
FRED!
401
00:38:20,462 --> 00:38:21,422
Fred!
402
00:38:23,342 --> 00:38:27,342
'I became aware
of someone standing behind me.
403
00:38:28,802 --> 00:38:31,522
'I looked up and there was a man.'
404
00:38:32,642 --> 00:38:36,662
What did this man look like?
Well, he looked...
405
00:38:36,662 --> 00:38:38,942
a little like that.
406
00:38:42,282 --> 00:38:46,142
He, um, smiled and then, um...
407
00:38:47,242 --> 00:38:52,362
..blackout. Nothing. He must've
hit me with the butt of his gun.
408
00:38:52,362 --> 00:38:58,802
When I came to, I was in the camper
van and I heard this loud explosion
right beside...right by my ear.
409
00:38:58,802 --> 00:39:02,602
I opened the door and realised
it was gunfire.
410
00:39:02,602 --> 00:39:06,462
People shouting, yelling, screaming,
"Put your hands up!"
411
00:39:06,462 --> 00:39:10,762
But pretty little Beth Downing
shot me anyway.
412
00:39:10,762 --> 00:39:16,042
That's why I had defensive wounds
on my hand and shoulder.
413
00:39:16,042 --> 00:39:21,302
I must have blacked out,
because the next thing I realised
414
00:39:21,302 --> 00:39:25,862
was that I was in a hospital bed
surrounded by armed officers
415
00:39:25,862 --> 00:39:29,862
and everybody
was treating me like the devil.
416
00:39:41,982 --> 00:39:47,302
This is the man Mackenzie
claims abducted him.
All he needs is a scar and a...
417
00:39:47,302 --> 00:39:51,302
So you don't believe it? It's
not a question of what I believe.
418
00:39:51,302 --> 00:39:55,702
We test the story to destruction.
Find who shot his dog. Where is it?
419
00:39:55,702 --> 00:40:01,262
Nesbit supervised a day-long search
on February 14th.
They found nothing.
420
00:40:01,262 --> 00:40:04,082
You sure about that? Yeah. Why?
421
00:40:04,082 --> 00:40:10,062
February 14th, Nesbit was conducting
his interview with Martin Corgan.
Well, get Nesbit in.
422
00:40:10,062 --> 00:40:15,342
I called him about the camper van.
He's on holiday in France
till the weekend.
423
00:40:15,342 --> 00:40:18,942
I hope he's having a lovely time(!)
What about the van?
424
00:40:18,942 --> 00:40:25,422
According to Nesbit's file, it was
stolen from a dealership in Essex.
Check it out! Don't believe Nesbit!
425
00:40:25,422 --> 00:40:27,782
Come on, man! Move!
426
00:40:33,162 --> 00:40:37,722
Hang on a minute. This was mentioned
in Carl Mackenzie's statement.
427
00:40:37,722 --> 00:40:40,162
Look, it's the motorbike.
428
00:40:45,122 --> 00:40:47,182
Look at this.
429
00:40:53,742 --> 00:40:55,542
OK...
430
00:41:21,622 --> 00:41:25,982
DC Silver, Dr Grace Foley. We'd like
to see Monica Reynolds. I'm sorry,
431
00:41:25,982 --> 00:41:29,542
she's out. Are you Guy? Yes.
Can we speak to you?
432
00:41:29,542 --> 00:41:33,862
It's important. Well, I am in
the middle of lunch, but why not?
433
00:41:33,862 --> 00:41:36,082
Come in. Thank you. Thank you.
434
00:41:37,442 --> 00:41:39,882
Do, please, sit down.
435
00:41:39,882 --> 00:41:43,842
This is Janice. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you, too, Janice.
436
00:41:45,962 --> 00:41:49,542
This is about Mackenzie,
isn't it? Yes.
437
00:41:49,542 --> 00:41:55,362
Sorry about this, darling.
Do you want me to go?
No, no, it won't take long.
438
00:41:56,522 --> 00:42:01,222
Right. OK. Does your mother ever
visit Carl Mackenzie in prison?
439
00:42:01,222 --> 00:42:03,882
You must be joking. No, I'm not.
440
00:42:03,882 --> 00:42:08,802
On top of the human tragedy, he
almost destroyed our family name.
441
00:42:08,802 --> 00:42:11,542
Almost destroyed Reynolds Mining(?)
442
00:42:11,542 --> 00:42:16,802
A small consideration in the scheme
of things, I know, but yes, he did.
443
00:42:16,802 --> 00:42:19,382
Wine? No. Thank you. No, thanks.
444
00:42:20,422 --> 00:42:22,882
The dog was shot just like he said.
445
00:42:22,882 --> 00:42:28,522
So he killed his dog before
graduating to people.
I also found this.
446
00:42:28,522 --> 00:42:33,682
There's a lot of blood on it
and it's not the dog.
447
00:42:33,682 --> 00:42:38,762
Whose is it, Mackenzie's? I'm
checking, but it could be unrelated.
448
00:42:38,762 --> 00:42:43,702
How long will it take? As long
as it takes. That's a good answer.
449
00:42:43,702 --> 00:42:48,822
If they had married, would Carl have
had control of Reynolds Mining? No.
450
00:42:48,822 --> 00:42:53,042
Could your mother have bestowed
one on him? Technically, I suppose.
451
00:42:53,042 --> 00:42:57,542
The thought never occurred to me
and I'm sure it never did to Carl.
452
00:42:57,542 --> 00:43:02,342
He was happy mending furniture and
walking his dog! Not that happy.
453
00:43:02,342 --> 00:43:06,462
Is there anything else? I'd like to
finish my lunch. One other thing.
454
00:43:06,462 --> 00:43:12,342
After he moved in, did he
ever have friends to the house? No.
455
00:43:12,342 --> 00:43:14,602
No, never. No.
456
00:43:14,602 --> 00:43:17,062
Why do you ask that?
457
00:43:17,062 --> 00:43:20,742
Did he ever go out
to meet people...friends?
458
00:43:20,742 --> 00:43:25,222
No. To be honest, I don't think
he really had any friends.
459
00:43:25,222 --> 00:43:29,662
When we had the engagement party,
I said to invite his friends,
460
00:43:29,662 --> 00:43:34,282
but he only asked his sister.
Is that you, Guy?
461
00:43:34,282 --> 00:43:36,582
Who's there?
462
00:43:38,322 --> 00:43:41,122
I thought you were resting, Mummy.
463
00:43:42,242 --> 00:43:46,102
- Who are you?
- Police officers, Mrs Reynolds.
464
00:43:46,102 --> 00:43:51,282
Oh. I've talked to them. Why not...?
We would like to talk to you,
Mrs Reynolds.
465
00:43:51,282 --> 00:43:53,322
Is it about Carl?
466
00:43:53,322 --> 00:43:55,082
Yes, it is.
467
00:43:55,082 --> 00:43:59,882
If you're too tired, Mummy, they'll
understand. I think perhaps I am.
468
00:43:59,882 --> 00:44:03,522
I'm sorry.
Perhaps we could talk tomorrow?
469
00:44:03,522 --> 00:44:07,882
Yes, if that's all right with Guy.
Goodbye.
470
00:44:16,562 --> 00:44:23,882
I think Fiona Mackenzie's right.
Guy Reynolds spends too much energy
playing the decent, put-upon son.
471
00:44:23,882 --> 00:44:26,942
You didn't like him?
I think he's a liar.
472
00:44:26,942 --> 00:44:31,042
He's in mining. What do you expect?
"Test the story to destruction."
473
00:44:31,042 --> 00:44:34,262
We're doing it.
What's he lying about?
474
00:44:34,262 --> 00:44:41,322
Suppose he wasn't happy about the
marriage and just let on he was and
the party was part of that pretence.
475
00:44:41,322 --> 00:44:45,522
You didn't answer. There's
only one reason he'd do that.
476
00:44:45,522 --> 00:44:49,742
Guy made sure he never made it up
the aisle, or paid someone to. Oh!
477
00:44:49,742 --> 00:44:55,802
That's an extreme way
of getting a wedding cancelled!
So how did Mackenzie get the gun?
478
00:44:55,802 --> 00:45:00,722
How does a friendless furniture
restorer get a Turkish machine gun?
479
00:45:00,722 --> 00:45:06,462
Guy Reynolds had the motive
and the means. It's something
we've got to examine.
480
00:45:06,462 --> 00:45:11,582
OK.
Let's examine it, shall we, ladies?
Would you like to sit down, Mel?
481
00:45:16,782 --> 00:45:20,642
Why set Carl up?
Why not just kill him?
482
00:45:20,642 --> 00:45:24,982
Why kill 14 people and leave the
person you want eliminated alive?
483
00:45:33,605 --> 00:45:37,285
Boyd. This is Andrew Cross.
Yes, we've met.
484
00:45:37,285 --> 00:45:42,105
Andrew noticed something interesting
about Martin Corgan's Range Rover.
485
00:45:42,105 --> 00:45:44,745
It's probably nothing.
I better go.
486
00:45:44,745 --> 00:45:48,145
You might as well tell us
what it is.
487
00:45:48,145 --> 00:45:52,165
Martin Corgan said he threw himself
across his wife, right?
488
00:45:52,165 --> 00:45:58,805
Right... Look at the bullet holes.
If he had been there, he couldn't
have survived. The hole is too low.
489
00:45:58,805 --> 00:46:03,205
Even if he had leaned across to save
his wife, no matter how low he went,
490
00:46:03,205 --> 00:46:07,485
he would still have sustained
an injury from that bullet.
491
00:46:07,485 --> 00:46:13,605
He lied about being there? It's
tough to prove without the vehicle,
but you should interview him again.
492
00:46:13,605 --> 00:46:19,265
Where is the vehicle?
It was written-off in an accident
a couple of years later.
493
00:46:23,185 --> 00:46:25,985
Thank you. Yeah. OK.
494
00:46:25,985 --> 00:46:31,645
Andrew, thanks a lot.
If there's anything else you need -
work or...otherwise,
495
00:46:31,645 --> 00:46:33,625
you've got my mobile.
496
00:46:37,405 --> 00:46:39,845
Work or otherwise? Shut up.
497
00:46:42,505 --> 00:46:47,805
I've got to check a few things out,
Frankie, so I would appreciate it
498
00:46:47,805 --> 00:46:53,185
if you could keep these to
yourself...for a couple of days.
499
00:46:55,745 --> 00:46:57,005
OK.
500
00:46:58,225 --> 00:46:59,745
Thank you.
501
00:47:14,685 --> 00:47:22,025
I checked on the camper van. It was
traded in at Palace Cars in Essex
two months before the massacre.
502
00:47:22,025 --> 00:47:25,865
Nesbit must've checked that.
It's not in the file.
503
00:47:25,865 --> 00:47:28,485
What's Nesbit doing these days?
504
00:47:28,485 --> 00:47:32,465
He retired last year.
Thank God for that.
505
00:47:35,025 --> 00:47:39,645
Thanks for coming. No problem. You
were right about the investigation.
506
00:47:39,645 --> 00:47:46,605
It's unravelling on you? Minute by
minute. I feared that. At least you
have a chance to make things right.
507
00:47:46,605 --> 00:47:53,265
There's some things I'd like to
nail down and it'd be useful to
hear your account of what happened.
508
00:47:53,265 --> 00:47:59,805
I've seen worse things in Northern
Ireland when I was 18. I'll talk
about it till people go blue. OK.
509
00:47:59,805 --> 00:48:02,725
Mel, any chance of a cup of tea?
510
00:48:02,725 --> 00:48:08,005
It's a big car park, hard
to secure. Lots of ups and downs -
511
00:48:08,005 --> 00:48:11,425
ramps, stairwells, lifts.
You worked in pairs?
512
00:48:11,425 --> 00:48:16,705
Yes. I was with Beth Downing. And
Nick was with...? Andrew, my son.
513
00:48:16,705 --> 00:48:20,485
He's no longer an active member
of the unit?
514
00:48:20,485 --> 00:48:26,345
No, he isn't. Not since Whitewater.
Sorry. He told me all about that.
515
00:48:26,345 --> 00:48:27,945
Mm-hm.
516
00:48:30,365 --> 00:48:34,565
They got...separated,
Andrew and Nick.
517
00:48:34,565 --> 00:48:37,345
They were in the back stairwell
518
00:48:37,345 --> 00:48:41,925
and they found Debbie Thomas hiding
by the lifts on the fourth floor.
519
00:48:44,225 --> 00:48:49,065
All clear. Keep going...
All clear... Keep going, keep going.
520
00:48:54,065 --> 00:48:56,145
Sarge!
521
00:48:56,145 --> 00:48:59,005
Wait... Keep going, keep going...
522
00:48:59,005 --> 00:49:01,805
I don't want to go! All clear.
523
00:49:01,805 --> 00:49:05,885
They wanted to get her out,
but she was too scared to move.
524
00:49:05,885 --> 00:49:10,465
So Nick stayed with her
while Andrew went up top.
525
00:49:10,465 --> 00:49:14,385
Before he got there,
he heard shots. We all did.
526
00:49:14,385 --> 00:49:16,385
All clear.
527
00:49:16,385 --> 00:49:18,345
No target, Sarge.
528
00:49:18,345 --> 00:49:20,125
Can't see him.
529
00:49:20,945 --> 00:49:23,845
TWO GUNSHOTS ECHO
530
00:49:28,265 --> 00:49:31,085
MAN DOWN! MAN DOWN!
531
00:49:33,285 --> 00:49:43,525
You cornered Mackenzie on the top
floor, didn't you? That's right.
532
00:49:43,525 --> 00:49:47,865
Yeah, I will. I will.
533
00:49:47,865 --> 00:49:53,825
Have you thought about
Mackenzie's story that
he was set up by the real gunman?
534
00:49:53,825 --> 00:49:55,945
No. No, I haven't.
535
00:50:02,625 --> 00:50:06,765
When we got to the top floor,
the first thing we saw
536
00:50:06,765 --> 00:50:08,905
was the Corgans.
537
00:50:11,545 --> 00:50:13,885
Then we saw the camper van.
538
00:50:16,905 --> 00:50:19,825
We were very exposed.
539
00:50:24,305 --> 00:50:25,405
Go.
540
00:50:26,665 --> 00:50:29,625
GUNSHOT
541
00:50:29,625 --> 00:50:34,065
I was feeling
very relaxed...really,
542
00:50:34,065 --> 00:50:38,045
but the thought in my mind
was that I was going to die
543
00:50:38,045 --> 00:50:42,945
and there was nothing
that I could do to stop it.
544
00:50:44,665 --> 00:50:47,005
Then suddenly, he was there.
545
00:50:50,805 --> 00:50:52,505
Armed police!
546
00:50:52,505 --> 00:50:54,785
Put your weapon down!
547
00:51:06,345 --> 00:51:12,805
Beth shot him in the shoulder.
Over he went. But the bullet
went through Mackenzie's palm,
548
00:51:12,805 --> 00:51:15,185
didn't it? So?
549
00:51:16,325 --> 00:51:19,545
How could he have been holding
the gun?
550
00:51:20,685 --> 00:51:25,385
Well, MP5s aren't very heavy. He
must've been using it one-handed.
551
00:51:27,685 --> 00:51:30,925
But you don't remember...exactly?
552
00:51:30,925 --> 00:51:33,325
Uh...
553
00:51:33,325 --> 00:51:38,145
You know, to be honest,
it all happened very fast.
554
00:51:40,185 --> 00:51:43,645
I know. I understand.
I understand that.
555
00:51:43,645 --> 00:51:50,125
Well, uh, thanks. I'm sorry you
didn't get any tea, but...
you know how things are. Yeah.
556
00:51:50,125 --> 00:51:52,865
There's one more question...
557
00:51:52,865 --> 00:51:57,605
Do you remember which seat Martin
Corgan sat in, in the Range Rover?
558
00:51:57,605 --> 00:52:00,205
Yes, it was the passenger seat.
559
00:52:00,205 --> 00:52:05,885
He would've driven off otherwise,
wouldn't he? Yeah...
I suppose he would.
560
00:52:09,565 --> 00:52:14,845
Sorry, mate, just closing up.
If you're serious, I'll stay open.
561
00:52:14,845 --> 00:52:19,825
I am serious, but I'm not after
a car. DS Jordan, Cold Case Squad.
562
00:52:19,825 --> 00:52:23,545
I'm trying to trace...this vehicle.
563
00:52:23,545 --> 00:52:30,885
The previous owner, a Donald
Christie, said you exchanged it
for a Fiesta in November 1996.
564
00:52:30,885 --> 00:52:36,185
So? What happened to it then? It
was nicked off the lot. It happens.
565
00:52:36,185 --> 00:52:40,665
You've got a very good memory.
Look, I know what this is about.
566
00:52:40,665 --> 00:52:44,965
That was the van that was found at
Whitewater. I've been there before.
567
00:52:44,965 --> 00:52:50,385
Sorry...you've been questioned
about this before? Yep. By who?
568
00:52:50,385 --> 00:52:52,925
Your colleague, DCI Nesbit.
569
00:52:52,925 --> 00:52:58,985
Nesbit? Yeah, so why don't you
just compare notes with him
and let me get on, eh?
570
00:52:58,985 --> 00:53:02,405
DCI Nesbit is retired now.
Not my problem.
571
00:53:02,405 --> 00:53:08,925
Carl Mackenzie is appealing
against his convicion - 14 counts
of murder, including two children.
572
00:53:08,925 --> 00:53:13,305
What's it got to do with me?!
That's what I'm trying to find out.
573
00:53:18,365 --> 00:53:22,805
This business is all I've got.
What makes you say that?
574
00:53:25,265 --> 00:53:29,765
Is he going to get off? Why did
you say, "This is all I've got"?
575
00:53:29,765 --> 00:53:33,345
I didn't threaten your business.
Ah, forget it.
576
00:53:33,345 --> 00:53:36,165
Tell me about the camper van.
577
00:53:38,705 --> 00:53:42,785
I sold it the day before
the massacre. To who?
578
00:53:42,785 --> 00:53:45,865
To who?! It wasn't Carl Mackenzie.
579
00:53:45,865 --> 00:53:49,745
He was rougher.
He paid with cash - new 50s.
580
00:53:49,745 --> 00:53:54,065
His name? Can't remember. It wasn't
his real name. How do you know?
581
00:53:54,065 --> 00:54:01,085
Nesbit told me. I told him this,
but he said if anyone asked to say
the van was nicked off the lot.
582
00:54:01,085 --> 00:54:03,145
What was in it for you?
583
00:54:03,145 --> 00:54:07,185
I'd been a bit lax with
vehicle registration documents.
584
00:54:07,185 --> 00:54:09,765
Nesbit used it against you?
585
00:54:11,025 --> 00:54:12,865
Christ.
586
00:54:13,945 --> 00:54:16,665
Is this who you sold the van to?
587
00:54:55,577 --> 00:55:02,277
You were lying. I was lucky. You
weren't there! What?! You didn't
protect your wife! Yes, I did!
588
00:55:02,277 --> 00:55:08,717
You weren't even in the car! Tell
me the truth or I'll arrest you for
perverting the course of justice!
589
00:55:16,797 --> 00:55:19,037
We were leaving the supermarket...
590
00:55:20,237 --> 00:55:22,957
I was pushing the trolley.
591
00:55:22,957 --> 00:55:25,537
When we got to the car,
592
00:55:25,537 --> 00:55:30,237
my wife got in the driving seat
and I put the shopping in the back.
593
00:55:30,237 --> 00:55:34,917
Just as I shut the boot...
TWO GUNSHOTS
594
00:55:39,177 --> 00:55:42,297
Help me.
ANOTHER SHOT
595
00:55:43,437 --> 00:55:45,117
Help me.
596
00:55:49,317 --> 00:55:51,877
"Help me". That's what she said.
597
00:55:51,877 --> 00:55:54,517
"Help me".
598
00:55:54,517 --> 00:55:58,517
She was crying for me
and I just couldn't move.
599
00:56:01,577 --> 00:56:04,297
What did you see?
600
00:56:10,997 --> 00:56:14,137
MORE GUNSHOTS
601
00:56:19,917 --> 00:56:22,297
It could have been anyone.
602
00:56:24,797 --> 00:56:27,217
That's the truth.
603
00:56:31,937 --> 00:56:39,177
Why did you lie? Because I knew
it was him. After his picture was
all over the papers the next day?!
604
00:56:39,177 --> 00:56:43,597
You didn't even see him! I...! You
lied for your wife, didn't you?!
605
00:56:43,597 --> 00:56:46,197
Didn't you?! DIDN'T YOU?!
606
00:56:51,397 --> 00:56:52,937
Didn't you?
607
00:56:55,837 --> 00:56:56,917
Yes.
608
00:57:03,957 --> 00:57:06,017
What will you do?
609
00:57:06,017 --> 00:57:10,857
Will he be released because of me?
What...? What will you do?
610
00:57:21,497 --> 00:57:24,397
Nothing for now.
611
00:57:27,657 --> 00:57:29,637
Thank you.
612
00:57:29,637 --> 00:57:32,137
Just go.
613
00:57:33,857 --> 00:57:35,937
Just get out of here.
614
00:57:35,937 --> 00:57:40,337
See him out of the building,
will you, please?
615
00:57:42,757 --> 00:57:47,097
PHONE RINGS
616
00:57:56,217 --> 00:57:59,157
PHONE KEEPS RINGING
617
00:58:12,897 --> 00:58:15,797
BEEPING
618
00:58:16,837 --> 00:58:20,137
RINGING TONE
619
00:58:20,137 --> 00:58:23,517
DISTANT PHONE RINGS
56885
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