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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:02,201 --> 00:00:05,149 (gentle piano music) 3 00:00:05,149 --> 00:00:07,649 (clock ticks) 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 5 00:00:08,660 --> 00:00:13,360 - Say that there is a normal person. 6 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,270 She or he sees their family, their mom, 7 00:00:17,270 --> 00:00:22,270 their dad, their dog, my perspective of family, 8 00:00:22,970 --> 00:00:24,923 I live with my mom and my step-dad. 9 00:00:26,190 --> 00:00:27,740 My other brother lives with me. 10 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,703 My dad hates my mom. 11 00:00:33,310 --> 00:00:35,130 My older brother hates my mom 12 00:00:36,010 --> 00:00:37,833 and I can't see either of them. 13 00:00:39,860 --> 00:00:42,970 It's not fair that any family goes through this. 14 00:00:42,970 --> 00:00:44,180 It breaks up your family. 15 00:00:44,180 --> 00:00:47,540 It makes life harder and you just 16 00:00:47,540 --> 00:00:49,688 don't see the world the same. 17 00:00:49,688 --> 00:00:53,188 (engaging dramatic music) 18 00:01:04,570 --> 00:01:07,790 - [Francisco] Every 60 seconds, a child loses contact 19 00:01:07,790 --> 00:01:10,190 with one parent, permanently, because 20 00:01:10,190 --> 00:01:12,273 of what's going on in the family court system. 21 00:01:16,550 --> 00:01:18,320 - [Christine] One parent gets to be a parent 22 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:21,570 and the other gets to be, at best, a visitor, 23 00:01:21,570 --> 00:01:23,793 and at worst, completely erased. 24 00:01:29,780 --> 00:01:32,840 - It destroys lives it bankrupts people every day. 25 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,240 It tears children from their homes and it just so happens 26 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,488 to be a 50 billion dollar a year industry. 27 00:01:40,488 --> 00:01:43,470 (protestors chanting) 28 00:01:43,470 --> 00:01:45,440 - [Ned] It's an epidemic that people don't realize 29 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,240 that this country and other countries are going through. 30 00:01:51,900 --> 00:01:54,600 Nobody wants to talk about it until it happens to you. 31 00:01:56,290 --> 00:01:57,910 - [Jennifer] This isn't a father's rights issue. 32 00:01:57,910 --> 00:01:59,080 It's not a mother's rights issue. 33 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,351 It's a human right issue. 34 00:02:01,351 --> 00:02:04,851 (engaging dramatic music) 35 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:23,460 - [Ginger] My parents' divorce was so messy that after 36 00:02:23,460 --> 00:02:25,740 I graduated from university, I moved, 37 00:02:25,740 --> 00:02:29,040 literally, half way across the world to Argentina. 38 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,770 Anything I could do to get away from them. 39 00:02:31,770 --> 00:02:35,160 But divorce and its effects on kids kept following me 40 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,160 and I made a film called "Erasing Dad," "Borrando a Papa," 41 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,000 that exposes the discrimination fathers face 42 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,800 when they want to be in their kids' lives after divorce. 43 00:02:45,870 --> 00:02:49,020 The film's release caused the law in Argentina to be changed 44 00:02:49,020 --> 00:02:51,453 so that moms and dads could share joint custody. 45 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:56,540 It also helped me to heal and reconnect with my family 46 00:02:56,540 --> 00:02:59,810 and I returned to the United States. 47 00:02:59,810 --> 00:03:01,650 I wanted to make a follow up film 48 00:03:01,650 --> 00:03:04,240 and after a post on Facebook, my inbox 49 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,633 was flooded with desperate pleas for help. 50 00:03:09,180 --> 00:03:12,823 Why were all these families reaching out to me, a filmmaker? 51 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:16,650 Why were the family courts unable to help them? 52 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,070 I decided to tell the stories 53 00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:24,673 of the ignored victims of family court, the children. 54 00:03:27,810 --> 00:03:29,560 - I was only five-years-old. 55 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,490 One day we were all good, we were all happy, 56 00:03:31,490 --> 00:03:33,080 and then the next it's like, oh, 57 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:34,980 my dad's no longer in the picture. 58 00:03:34,980 --> 00:03:36,990 - I didn't really know what was happening at the time. 59 00:03:36,990 --> 00:03:40,950 - My first memory that I have is my parents fighting. 60 00:03:40,950 --> 00:03:43,150 - I have more bad memories than good memories. 61 00:03:43,150 --> 00:03:45,760 - The day my dad moved out was extremely hard. 62 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,103 I was crying all the time. 63 00:03:48,412 --> 00:03:51,912 (engaging dramatic music) 64 00:04:16,870 --> 00:04:21,160 - When I was born my parents were 65 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,823 in the middle of a divorce. 66 00:04:24,690 --> 00:04:29,640 So, the first time my dad saw me I was 67 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,543 in my grandma's arms in a courtroom. 68 00:04:35,910 --> 00:04:39,150 My mom only had one photo. 69 00:04:39,150 --> 00:04:43,190 It was a picture of him and he 70 00:04:43,190 --> 00:04:45,257 was holding my sister, Cheylsea. 71 00:04:47,189 --> 00:04:50,170 A lot of mewanted to have a relationship 72 00:04:50,170 --> 00:04:52,003 with my biological father. 73 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:57,667 I remember asking my mom every day, "Has dad called? 74 00:04:57,667 --> 00:04:58,767 "Has dad called?" 75 00:04:59,650 --> 00:05:01,800 She kept telling me, "Maybe he's just busy," 76 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,437 and then that turned into, "He's not your dad." 77 00:05:06,796 --> 00:05:10,213 (engaging uptempo music) 78 00:05:15,380 --> 00:05:20,090 I was informed that basically he was poison to me and he 79 00:05:20,090 --> 00:05:23,737 would manipulate me if I was ever in contact with him. 80 00:05:27,470 --> 00:05:29,900 When I was reading the divorce file though, 81 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:34,013 there was a lot of things I didn't know happened. 82 00:05:35,940 --> 00:05:38,103 There's flaws in the system. 83 00:05:39,670 --> 00:05:42,420 I've never known a life were one parent wasn't missing. 84 00:05:44,372 --> 00:05:47,622 (dramatic piano music) 85 00:06:03,350 --> 00:06:04,810 - I think that as a child, like, 86 00:06:04,810 --> 00:06:07,763 I kind of knew it was coming subconsciously. 87 00:06:10,444 --> 00:06:13,270 There's moments that I have flashbacks where I can see 88 00:06:13,270 --> 00:06:15,550 the door close, I could be standing in the hallway 89 00:06:15,550 --> 00:06:18,400 just hearing them screaming, so I just kind of disappear. 90 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,533 So, when my parents got divorced, I was 12-years-old. 91 00:06:26,430 --> 00:06:28,007 My father was like, "Pack your things. 92 00:06:28,007 --> 00:06:30,757 "We're gonna go visit your grandma for a little while." 93 00:06:32,820 --> 00:06:35,770 - When they left, he pulled them out of school 94 00:06:35,770 --> 00:06:37,770 and I didn't know what to do. 95 00:06:37,770 --> 00:06:41,033 I was so overwhelmed with what was going on. 96 00:06:42,530 --> 00:06:44,490 I was living up in Pennsylvania, 97 00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:46,123 because I was in the military. 98 00:06:47,550 --> 00:06:49,758 They ended up in Virginia. 99 00:06:49,758 --> 00:06:52,258 (birds chirp) 100 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,850 - Karyn, my stepmom, I also call her mom, 101 00:07:00,850 --> 00:07:04,363 she came into my life when I was about 14. 102 00:07:08,390 --> 00:07:11,083 - Initially I was there practically every weekend, 103 00:07:12,650 --> 00:07:16,540 but the visits started to decrease every month, 104 00:07:16,540 --> 00:07:20,930 and then, I was stopped, sometimes it was because 105 00:07:20,930 --> 00:07:23,080 the children would call me and say the didn't wanna come. 106 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,947 Sometimes, I would get an email saying, 107 00:07:24,947 --> 00:07:27,840 "Well the kids don't wanna see you this weekend." 108 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,283 It was signed by my ex, but it sounded like his wife. 109 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:33,993 - I was just so confused. 110 00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:37,813 I really felt like she didn't want anything to do with me. 111 00:07:38,990 --> 00:07:41,890 - I can't even really answer why the whole thing happened. 112 00:07:42,870 --> 00:07:44,210 I was never on drugs. 113 00:07:44,210 --> 00:07:46,890 I had no criminal background. 114 00:07:46,890 --> 00:07:50,210 I had no psychological issues, other than 115 00:07:50,210 --> 00:07:53,113 being heartbroken, because I lost my children. 116 00:07:54,034 --> 00:07:57,284 (dramatic piano music) 117 00:08:15,930 --> 00:08:18,290 - Me and my older brother had a really good relationship 118 00:08:18,290 --> 00:08:22,290 most of our lives, and we would play video games together, 119 00:08:22,290 --> 00:08:25,823 and everything was normal, like a normal sibling. 120 00:08:27,230 --> 00:08:30,440 - My older son always looked to his father. 121 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,430 My ex-husband and I separated and at that time 122 00:08:34,430 --> 00:08:38,010 my son realized that if he didn't side with his father, 123 00:08:38,010 --> 00:08:41,900 likely, he wouldn't have his father in his life. 124 00:08:41,900 --> 00:08:46,900 So, he had to choose mom or dad, and I think it was 125 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,333 a survival mechanism and he chose his father. 126 00:08:52,340 --> 00:08:53,730 - It just seems like one day out 127 00:08:53,730 --> 00:08:57,760 of the blue he's just angry at her. 128 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,420 - He would come home from their dad's to say 129 00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:06,153 I was horrible and demand what their dad wanted at the time. 130 00:09:07,530 --> 00:09:09,077 - [Lauren] Then he would always say like, 131 00:09:09,077 --> 00:09:10,537 "I wanna kill her." 132 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:17,100 - That wasn't my son, but he was being so influenced 133 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,573 that that's how he had to act towards me. 134 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:25,880 - [Lauren] Oftentimes, she just starts crying 135 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,880 on my shoulder, but I don't know how to help her. 136 00:09:41,250 --> 00:09:44,520 - I get reminded everyday, like "Oh, you're dad sucked." 137 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,328 - My dad and my step-mom sat me down and discussed 138 00:09:47,328 --> 00:09:50,933 with me how awful of a person my mom was. 139 00:09:50,933 --> 00:09:52,178 - I don't think my mom wanted me 140 00:09:52,178 --> 00:09:53,343 to have any contact with my father. 141 00:09:53,343 --> 00:09:55,210 - Growing up I had learn to hate him. 142 00:09:55,210 --> 00:09:58,137 - As I got older my dad said, "You owe your loyalties 143 00:09:58,137 --> 00:09:59,987 "to me because I've been here for you 144 00:09:59,987 --> 00:10:02,690 "and your mom hasn't, and your mom left you." 145 00:10:02,690 --> 00:10:04,570 - It's a constant reminder because 146 00:10:04,570 --> 00:10:06,857 I am my father's child, so. 147 00:10:06,857 --> 00:10:09,607 (engaging music) 148 00:10:12,590 --> 00:10:14,530 - I began studying parental alienation 149 00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:17,070 approximately three years ago. 150 00:10:17,070 --> 00:10:19,160 I started looking around to people who have been 151 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,210 affected by this on Facebook groups 152 00:10:21,210 --> 00:10:24,000 and support groups, and I didn't get any answers. 153 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,170 I thought, it's time to put some 154 00:10:26,170 --> 00:10:28,503 serious scientific attention to this problem. 155 00:10:29,790 --> 00:10:33,360 Parental alienation, the set of behaviors 156 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,260 that a parent will do to try to distance their child, 157 00:10:38,260 --> 00:10:40,280 or hurt the relationship between 158 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,573 the child and the other parent. 159 00:10:44,029 --> 00:10:45,770 It can be very subtle. 160 00:10:45,770 --> 00:10:48,800 They can refer to the other parent in pronouns, 161 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,650 completely undermining their role as a parent. 162 00:10:51,650 --> 00:10:53,412 The custodial parent really colors 163 00:10:53,412 --> 00:10:56,060 the way that child perceives events. 164 00:10:56,060 --> 00:10:59,130 Obviously you trust and love your parent and you want 165 00:10:59,130 --> 00:11:01,550 to believe that what they're telling you is correct. 166 00:11:01,550 --> 00:11:04,240 That child is then expressing 167 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,440 and parroting back what they're hearing. 168 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,608 How many of you have had it happen to you? 169 00:11:10,608 --> 00:11:11,808 Just by a show of hands. 170 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,270 That's about, I'd say about 40%. 171 00:11:15,270 --> 00:11:18,110 I ask this of every class that I teach. 172 00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:19,810 It's heartbreaking to me to see 173 00:11:19,810 --> 00:11:22,350 how many of you are dealing with this. 174 00:11:22,350 --> 00:11:24,880 I was trying to estimate the scope of the problem 175 00:11:26,050 --> 00:11:28,343 and we conducted a poll in order to do that. 176 00:11:32,290 --> 00:11:36,060 13% of these adults reported feeling alienated 177 00:11:36,060 --> 00:11:37,870 from one or more of their children, and what 178 00:11:37,870 --> 00:11:40,590 that comes out to is over 22 million American adults are 179 00:11:40,590 --> 00:11:43,171 feeling like they are being alienated from their children. 180 00:11:43,171 --> 00:11:45,754 (somber music) 181 00:11:52,810 --> 00:11:56,230 If there's 22 million adults dealing with this, 182 00:11:56,230 --> 00:12:00,310 that's over 22 million children, and the mental health 183 00:12:00,310 --> 00:12:04,453 consequences on that child are severe and long-lasting. 184 00:12:05,953 --> 00:12:09,203 (dramatic piano music) 185 00:12:10,897 --> 00:12:15,407 - "I therefore find that X is an alienated child, 186 00:12:15,407 --> 00:12:18,927 "and that he has been alienated from his mother 187 00:12:18,927 --> 00:12:23,670 "by the words, actions, and behavior of his father." 188 00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:26,500 The Child Custody and Access Report 189 00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:28,823 found that Brandyn was alienated. 190 00:12:38,490 --> 00:12:40,980 I knew something was wrong before that, 191 00:12:40,980 --> 00:12:43,363 I just hadn't heard of a name for it. 192 00:12:46,050 --> 00:12:50,950 The judge did take away dad's access for a month 193 00:12:50,950 --> 00:12:55,460 as sort of a warning because of behavior that was going on. 194 00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:59,700 So, the judge was really swift in his actions, 195 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:04,480 but the problem is if one parents wants 196 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,310 to make things difficult it's almost impossible 197 00:13:09,310 --> 00:13:11,450 to get things in front of the judge 198 00:13:11,450 --> 00:13:13,850 if they're not turning up for their court dates, 199 00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:17,410 if they're hiding from process servers and things. 200 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:19,360 They can drag it on and the judge 201 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:20,933 can't do anything about that. 202 00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:37,713 - I have went to about four counselors. 203 00:13:39,140 --> 00:13:43,290 The counselor, he asked us to draw a picture of how we felt. 204 00:13:43,290 --> 00:13:48,290 I drew a house, split in half, with Brandyn 205 00:13:48,607 --> 00:13:51,900 and my dad on one side, and me, my middle brother, 206 00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:55,535 and my mom on the other side, and it was just cut in half. 207 00:13:55,535 --> 00:13:58,702 (engaging rock music) 208 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,170 - I ended up leaving high school in my second sophomore year 209 00:14:28,170 --> 00:14:30,540 and went to beauty school at 15. 210 00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:32,933 See how your layers kinda cascade together now. 211 00:14:34,060 --> 00:14:38,220 My ex and I divorced while she was pregnant with Ashlynn, 212 00:14:38,220 --> 00:14:39,920 and then we had a big argument over the phone, 213 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,283 and the next morning I was served with a restraining order. 214 00:14:44,540 --> 00:14:47,483 This was a permanent Order of Protection. 215 00:14:51,198 --> 00:14:52,303 I kept everything. 216 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,370 It amazes me that I go through all of this 217 00:14:58,370 --> 00:15:01,523 and nowhere in here does she say I'm a bad father. 218 00:15:02,370 --> 00:15:03,900 Our divorce is our divorce. 219 00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:05,700 What we went through, what she did to me, 220 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:07,530 what I did to her, what our relationship 221 00:15:07,530 --> 00:15:09,530 was has nothing to do with our children. 222 00:15:16,957 --> 00:15:19,667 - "Your honor, I wish it to be known that all 223 00:15:19,667 --> 00:15:23,317 "I am after is to have unsupervised visitation 224 00:15:23,317 --> 00:15:25,453 "and joint custody of my daughters. 225 00:15:28,057 --> 00:15:29,937 "My children are very important to me 226 00:15:29,937 --> 00:15:31,647 "and I am very important to them." 227 00:15:40,610 --> 00:15:43,420 - This was the worst paper I ever had to file. 228 00:15:43,420 --> 00:15:48,420 - He's scared to continue any type of attempt 229 00:15:48,890 --> 00:15:50,997 for visitation because of some threat. 230 00:15:50,997 --> 00:15:52,467 - "I feel like it's best to withdraw 231 00:15:52,467 --> 00:15:54,007 "my petition for visitation." 232 00:15:54,007 --> 00:15:56,427 - "Although, I have not been afforded the opportunity 233 00:15:56,427 --> 00:16:00,137 "to see my youngest daughter, I love both of my children." 234 00:16:00,137 --> 00:16:03,467 - "My ex-wife will go to any extreme 235 00:16:03,467 --> 00:16:05,423 "in her vendetta against me and others. 236 00:16:07,397 --> 00:16:08,977 "Therefore, I withdraw my petition, 237 00:16:08,977 --> 00:16:11,427 "and pray the situation will change in the future 238 00:16:13,227 --> 00:16:15,727 "and I will become a part of my daughters' lives." 239 00:16:19,628 --> 00:16:21,711 (crying) 240 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,750 - This is hard because you're reading a letter 241 00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:31,323 that your parent feels hopeless. 242 00:16:36,830 --> 00:16:37,813 - I lost 'em. 243 00:16:53,111 --> 00:16:56,576 - Here, I don't know when's the last time you've seen this. 244 00:16:56,576 --> 00:16:57,659 - Peanuthead. 245 00:17:00,513 --> 00:17:03,030 - I mean they're just pictures of his life. 246 00:17:03,914 --> 00:17:05,414 Look how cute you were though. 247 00:17:10,927 --> 00:17:13,094 I should give this to you. 248 00:17:15,170 --> 00:17:17,270 We had good four years where 249 00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:21,830 we were just extremely nasty to each other. 250 00:17:21,830 --> 00:17:24,947 - It was almost like this messy situation through a divorce, 251 00:17:24,947 --> 00:17:29,380 where it was team mom, or team family in Virginia. 252 00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:33,040 My family started asking me about the divorce and my choice. 253 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,900 I felt like my support system was right there in front of me 254 00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:39,253 so it was a pretty simple answer at the time. 255 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,787 - You can always look back at a situation and say, 256 00:17:42,787 --> 00:17:44,487 "Oh, I probably could've done this 257 00:17:44,487 --> 00:17:47,470 "and been a little nicer about it," 258 00:17:47,470 --> 00:17:51,780 or welcomed her more, or better conversations. 259 00:17:51,780 --> 00:17:54,957 But, no I think she disappeared on her own. 260 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:11,533 - Ow. 261 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,060 This is a transcript of when I want to pick my kids up. 262 00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:22,310 I rolled down the window, asked Rick 263 00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:24,180 if the kids were gonna get in the car, 264 00:18:24,180 --> 00:18:25,857 and he said, "That is up to the kids. 265 00:18:25,857 --> 00:18:27,317 "They can decide what to do." 266 00:18:30,273 --> 00:18:32,773 (birds chirp) 267 00:18:59,350 --> 00:19:02,010 - I was calling the police, I called the courts, 268 00:19:02,010 --> 00:19:05,060 I called whoever I could think of to help me, 269 00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:06,077 and they were like, "Oh, no sorry, 270 00:19:06,077 --> 00:19:07,607 "there's nothing we can help you with. 271 00:19:07,607 --> 00:19:09,867 "Unless they do something physically harming 272 00:19:09,867 --> 00:19:13,147 "the children we can't intervene with this." 273 00:19:17,668 --> 00:19:19,613 I just went through all these emails in here. 274 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,170 This is all the stuff I had to provide to the court. 275 00:19:24,170 --> 00:19:26,930 So, I was more angry with the courts than I was with 276 00:19:26,930 --> 00:19:31,200 what was happening because it was like, it's almost like 277 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,850 the thought that there's no gray area. 278 00:19:33,850 --> 00:19:34,690 It's all black and white. 279 00:19:34,690 --> 00:19:38,520 It was almost like they were looking to assign blame 280 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,032 to somebody rather than figure out a way 281 00:19:42,032 --> 00:19:44,750 to make it work for everybody. 282 00:19:44,750 --> 00:19:48,130 All I wanted was to have a relationship 283 00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:50,210 and be able to see my children, 284 00:19:50,210 --> 00:19:54,640 and I felt that there had to be a better way to do this 285 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,553 and what I was experiencing was not it. 286 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,240 - I think I was about eight. 287 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,120 There was a custody battle that happened. 288 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:05,830 - When the divorce was final, 289 00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:07,710 I saw my dad every other weekend. 290 00:20:07,710 --> 00:20:11,160 - It was supposed to be 51/49 my dad to my mom. 291 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,920 Eventually it went to I was only living at mom's. 292 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,240 - My mom hired the most expensive lawyer 293 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,383 to make sure that she got sole custody. 294 00:20:19,612 --> 00:20:23,112 (engaging dramatic music) 295 00:20:25,685 --> 00:20:27,310 - [Ginger] The family court system is mandated 296 00:20:27,310 --> 00:20:31,060 to work in the best interest of the children, but what 297 00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:35,380 actually goes on behind the closed doors of family court? 298 00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:37,070 - If you watch any of the law shows, 299 00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:40,020 you come in today and you're in court tomorrow. 300 00:20:40,020 --> 00:20:41,070 That's not how it works. 301 00:20:41,070 --> 00:20:44,530 You're talking usually six, eight, 12 months 302 00:20:44,530 --> 00:20:47,910 down the road and during that period of time, 303 00:20:47,910 --> 00:20:50,513 it's very traumatic for children. 304 00:20:52,170 --> 00:20:55,040 - Too many cases, not enough judges, 305 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,210 I was responsible for over 1000 cases. 306 00:20:58,210 --> 00:21:01,360 Some days I would have 15, 20 hearings. 307 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:03,010 - [Lawyer] But you were in fear of imminent, 308 00:21:03,010 --> 00:21:05,570 serious bodily harm, isn't that true? 309 00:21:05,570 --> 00:21:08,181 - Family Court really sets the stage for conflict 310 00:21:08,181 --> 00:21:11,450 because that is the nature of the legal process. 311 00:21:11,450 --> 00:21:13,170 It's adversarial. 312 00:21:13,170 --> 00:21:15,330 - If the parent is angry, I want the parent 313 00:21:15,330 --> 00:21:18,390 to continue talking, even though what is being said 314 00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:21,660 is not relevant, you always have to listen. 315 00:21:21,660 --> 00:21:24,000 - Mr. Dehaven make sure the questions are clear 316 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,880 and don't ask redundant questions-- 317 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,420 - If you have a parent who has mental health issues, 318 00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:32,010 control issues, that person can keep combing back to court. 319 00:21:32,010 --> 00:21:36,683 Even if a person cries, "Wolf, wolf" four, five, six times. 320 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,570 - [Ginger] In criminal court the state has to pass 321 00:21:39,570 --> 00:21:43,840 certain tests to file charges, but not so in Family Court. 322 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,290 One parent can bring the other parent back to court 323 00:21:46,290 --> 00:21:48,910 for something as serious as domestic violence, 324 00:21:48,910 --> 00:21:52,290 or as petty as not liking the food they feed their child. 325 00:21:52,290 --> 00:21:54,750 Family Court doesn't have to find a parent guilty 326 00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:58,230 of a crime, only that the other parent is the better parent. 327 00:21:58,230 --> 00:22:00,520 So, evidence standards are much looser 328 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,520 in Family Court than in Criminal Court. 329 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,590 - They are not looking for clear evidence 330 00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:09,980 to support or refute either parent's claims, 331 00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:11,923 and that's very problematic. 332 00:22:12,890 --> 00:22:14,900 - We have a lot of stereotypes that are negative 333 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:17,530 for the fathers, where they're more abusive or aggressive 334 00:22:17,530 --> 00:22:19,580 than mothers, that they're deadbeat dads. 335 00:22:21,085 --> 00:22:23,250 And we have a lot of very positive stereotypes about mothers 336 00:22:23,250 --> 00:22:26,660 being the better parent, however if a mother works, 337 00:22:26,660 --> 00:22:29,023 that is often used against those mothers. 338 00:22:30,050 --> 00:22:32,580 The other pattern is that the father will make 339 00:22:32,580 --> 00:22:34,300 the mother look like she's crazy, 340 00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:36,960 and everybody looks crazy in divorce. 341 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,590 - [Ginger] While the courts are mandated to work 342 00:22:38,590 --> 00:22:40,970 in the best interests of the child, nowhere 343 00:22:40,970 --> 00:22:43,570 in the civil code is this term defined. 344 00:22:43,570 --> 00:22:47,080 So, judges, custody evaluators, and psychologists 345 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,800 can make findings based on opinions that they don't have 346 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,263 to justify or show scientific evidence to validate. 347 00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:57,100 - Approximately 28 billion has been the estimate 348 00:22:57,100 --> 00:23:01,770 of how much this costs a year for Family Court involvement. 349 00:23:01,770 --> 00:23:05,080 It's to psychologists who have to get assigned or appointed 350 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,100 by the court to make an evaluation. 351 00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:09,600 They get paid 1000s of dollars. 352 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,540 Expert witnesses that parents have to call. 353 00:23:11,540 --> 00:23:16,200 It's an industry because all of these pieces play a role. 354 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,270 - I've had at least four or five counselors and doctors, 355 00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:25,173 three or four lawyers, it's cost close to a million dollars. 356 00:23:26,590 --> 00:23:29,030 - [Ginger] Because it is Civil Court you no right 357 00:23:29,030 --> 00:23:32,180 to an attorney, this presents a barrier to families 358 00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:34,340 who can't afford to pay for one. 359 00:23:34,340 --> 00:23:37,730 - The attorney I had didn't wanna do his job 360 00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:40,010 because I wasn't able to pay him in full. 361 00:23:40,010 --> 00:23:41,950 He could've talked about the parental alienation 362 00:23:41,950 --> 00:23:44,320 and said something referring to that 363 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,720 and he didn't say a word, because I couldn't pay him. 364 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,840 - I had nobody and on a $600 a month income, 365 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,543 you can't afford anybody. 366 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,030 - [Ginger] How is destroying a parent financially 367 00:24:03,030 --> 00:24:06,487 and emotionally in the child's best interests? 368 00:24:18,650 --> 00:24:20,140 - Nothing I said mattered. 369 00:24:20,140 --> 00:24:22,520 None of the evidence I brought forward mattered. 370 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,270 The judge wouldn't even look at it. 371 00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:27,743 I mean, like literally wouldn't look at it. 372 00:24:29,090 --> 00:24:32,180 My ex said plain and clearly that there was nothing 373 00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:35,120 that I could do to get to see my kids, 374 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:36,540 and the judge asked me what I wanted, 375 00:24:36,540 --> 00:24:39,360 and I said, "I want you to find her in contempt of court" 376 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:40,530 and the judge wouldn't do it. 377 00:24:40,530 --> 00:24:44,610 He said, "That's the children caretaker." 378 00:24:44,610 --> 00:24:45,650 And I said, "What am I?" 379 00:24:45,650 --> 00:24:47,850 And he goes, "You're the financial support." 380 00:24:49,715 --> 00:24:52,215 (engine hums) 381 00:24:58,084 --> 00:25:00,917 And I get a phone call from my ex. 382 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,407 She said, "You're children wanna see you. 383 00:25:04,407 --> 00:25:05,887 "They wanna be in your life." 384 00:25:07,090 --> 00:25:09,547 And I said, "How soon can you come over?" 385 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,640 - When I first met my Dad, at 10, I remember pulling up 386 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,640 in the car and he was like smiling like ear-to-ear. 387 00:25:20,207 --> 00:25:22,130 - My wife was elated. 388 00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:24,000 My other daughter was excited. 389 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,600 - My dad took my sister Carala, and I, and Cheylsea 390 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,020 to go do like a family photo shoot thing, 391 00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:33,030 and I just remember feeling really happy 392 00:25:33,030 --> 00:25:34,493 because we were all together. 393 00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:39,153 - God, it was such a blessing. 394 00:25:44,450 --> 00:25:47,250 - It was actually a very good visit. 395 00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:49,508 We met at a park so that they were able 396 00:25:49,508 --> 00:25:52,123 to play on the toys and feed the geese. 397 00:25:53,020 --> 00:25:55,970 - I knew he was somehow family in one way or another, 398 00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:57,720 but it's like I didn't know him. 399 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,830 It didn't really feel like a father-daughter thing 400 00:25:59,830 --> 00:26:02,663 because I didn't have that sort of connection with him. 401 00:26:04,548 --> 00:26:06,060 - I think I was four and they got 402 00:26:06,060 --> 00:26:07,713 to come stay for a little bit. 403 00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:10,620 We used to play Polly Pockets together. 404 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,470 - They made me feel very secure about every issue 405 00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:19,930 I ever had growing up, wondering where he was. 406 00:26:19,930 --> 00:26:23,530 He got a tattoo on his back of my birthday 407 00:26:23,530 --> 00:26:27,320 and I was informed by my mom and my step-dad that 408 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,543 that tattoo got removed and it hadn't. 409 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:39,440 The visits with my dad ended kind of abruptly. 410 00:26:41,569 --> 00:26:42,950 (storming) 411 00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:45,577 - Me ex said, "You know, with what they take out 412 00:26:45,577 --> 00:26:48,417 "of your checks for child support I know that you struggle, 413 00:26:48,417 --> 00:26:51,827 "and I would like to help with that. 414 00:26:51,827 --> 00:26:54,397 "So, I have an idea." 415 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,340 - The last time I remember seeing 416 00:26:58,340 --> 00:27:01,130 my dad he was signing papers. 417 00:27:01,130 --> 00:27:04,890 - Ashlynn's crying, I'm crying, and I've got 418 00:27:04,890 --> 00:27:08,847 my kid's step-dad telling me, "Don't worry, I'll make sure 419 00:27:08,847 --> 00:27:12,270 "she never takes your children away from you again." 420 00:27:12,270 --> 00:27:17,040 - By that point, Robert had been their dad for a few years. 421 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,740 It just seemed like the next step. 422 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,210 - I knew something big was gonna happen. 423 00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:24,677 - I've got here sitting there telling me, 424 00:27:24,677 --> 00:27:26,347 "It's not gonna change anything. 425 00:27:26,347 --> 00:27:28,660 "You're still their daddy, you're still their daddy," 426 00:27:28,660 --> 00:27:30,720 and the minute the papers were signed and their car doors 427 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,533 were shut, and everybody drove off, 428 00:27:32,533 --> 00:27:34,630 that was the last time I saw 'em. 429 00:27:38,410 --> 00:27:41,370 - The purpose of me meeting my father when I was 10 430 00:27:42,270 --> 00:27:45,650 wasn't really about what I wanted from it 431 00:27:45,650 --> 00:27:47,530 or anything like that, it was just 432 00:27:47,530 --> 00:27:49,543 to get the adoption to go through. 433 00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:54,503 - I signed my rights. 434 00:27:56,350 --> 00:28:00,615 I'm ashamed, I'm embarrassed, I hate myself everyday for it. 435 00:28:00,615 --> 00:28:03,115 (engine hums) 436 00:28:10,130 --> 00:28:12,610 - It sometimes felt as if my parents wanted me 437 00:28:12,610 --> 00:28:14,780 to choose sides, they'd be like, "What do you think? 438 00:28:14,780 --> 00:28:16,450 - They basically left it up to us, 439 00:28:16,450 --> 00:28:18,400 whether we wanted to see him or not. 440 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,650 - To pick a parent at five, I probably 441 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,083 wouldn't know who to pick at all. 442 00:28:38,350 --> 00:28:40,015 - Oh that was-- 443 00:28:40,015 --> 00:28:42,470 - [Aunt] Look, wave to Aunt-- 444 00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:44,087 - Wave, go wave, hi. 445 00:28:46,110 --> 00:28:48,270 I found out that Brian was adopted 446 00:28:48,270 --> 00:28:51,603 by Karyn I believe through an email. 447 00:28:55,740 --> 00:28:56,763 Ooh, okay. 448 00:28:58,170 --> 00:28:59,783 I was angry and heartbroken. 449 00:29:03,380 --> 00:29:08,380 - This is that when you adopt somebody, everything about 450 00:29:09,420 --> 00:29:12,680 the person disappears and it all starts over. 451 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,840 - I think she was making a much more bigger deal than I was. 452 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,640 She was really excited, and felt like 453 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,280 she was pretty nervous or maybe 454 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,110 a little nervous to ask me. 455 00:29:22,110 --> 00:29:24,080 - So, on it says Certificate of Birth, 456 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,920 like I gave birth to you on this day. 457 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,950 That's how this is written, like 458 00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:31,021 it wipes everything else before that 459 00:29:31,021 --> 00:29:35,100 and now this is your legal document. 460 00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:36,640 So, if anybody searched your birth. 461 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,570 This is what they would see. 462 00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:40,960 They would see that I am now on your 463 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,760 birth certificate as if I gave birth to you. 464 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,430 - To me, Karyn was mom and it was important to her. 465 00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:50,910 - It's like that never happened and this did. 466 00:29:50,910 --> 00:29:54,830 - That's an interesting way to make things happen, yeah. 467 00:29:54,830 --> 00:29:55,663 - Right? 468 00:29:55,663 --> 00:29:56,600 - Yeah. 469 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,313 I really didn't even think about Caroline at the time. 470 00:30:10,830 --> 00:30:14,380 - This is a card I sent to my daughter that I took 471 00:30:14,380 --> 00:30:17,940 a picture of so she would know that I sent it, 472 00:30:17,940 --> 00:30:21,450 and I did that with many cards that I sent them. 473 00:30:21,450 --> 00:30:24,403 This was a photo that was taken when she was little. 474 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,533 Oh God, all right. 475 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,823 The adoption paperwork for Katie. 476 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:39,247 I received an email from Karyn, saying 477 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,330 that Katie wanted to be adopted also. 478 00:30:43,330 --> 00:30:46,550 By that point, she wasn't talking to me anymore really. 479 00:30:46,550 --> 00:30:49,983 She didn't want anything to do with me. 480 00:30:58,422 --> 00:31:03,005 It just says who we are and my consent to the adoption. 481 00:31:06,490 --> 00:31:07,323 - Not good. 482 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,670 My daughter testified on the stand 483 00:31:15,670 --> 00:31:17,570 and said that she didn't wanna see me. 484 00:31:19,957 --> 00:31:22,090 And it was in open court, I watched the whole thing. 485 00:31:22,090 --> 00:31:23,640 I was thinking right across from her 486 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,540 looking at her while it was happening. 487 00:31:26,643 --> 00:31:29,226 (somber music) 488 00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:35,500 - As soon as society and the legal system starts 489 00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:38,097 to ask a child, "Who should you choose to live with?" 490 00:31:38,097 --> 00:31:39,630 "Who would you like to live with?" 491 00:31:39,630 --> 00:31:42,600 Then right away, they are asking a child 492 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,940 to make a choice about who's a better parent, 493 00:31:44,940 --> 00:31:47,370 and that means one parent gets to be a parent, 494 00:31:47,370 --> 00:31:50,650 and the other gets to be a best, a visitor, 495 00:31:50,650 --> 00:31:53,153 and at worst, completely erased. 496 00:31:53,153 --> 00:31:55,486 (waves lap) 497 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,410 Like I would just say, "It's easier to not to talk to her," 498 00:32:02,410 --> 00:32:05,830 and that was such an easy decision, and in reality 499 00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:08,830 there's no way that a decision like that could've been easy. 500 00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:13,733 So, in turn that's how I started building my walls. 501 00:32:15,450 --> 00:32:18,357 Like, "Screw you all, no one's getting in here." 502 00:32:21,330 --> 00:32:24,690 As a kid we just don't want the stress 503 00:32:24,690 --> 00:32:26,513 of having to figure all this out. 504 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,540 - I think the parents a lot of times aren't even conscious 505 00:32:32,540 --> 00:32:35,220 of the conflict they're creating for the child, 506 00:32:35,220 --> 00:32:37,070 or the way they're manipulating them. 507 00:32:38,610 --> 00:32:41,270 One of the concerns when you interview a child is 508 00:32:41,270 --> 00:32:43,090 they come into a stranger's office, 509 00:32:43,090 --> 00:32:45,780 in an uncomfortable setting, they've been brought here 510 00:32:45,780 --> 00:32:47,270 by one or the other of parent, 511 00:32:47,270 --> 00:32:49,260 the other one's sitting out there. 512 00:32:49,260 --> 00:32:53,850 They feel incredibly conflicted and so I don't know that we 513 00:32:53,850 --> 00:32:56,853 get accurate information from children when they come in. 514 00:33:15,090 --> 00:33:17,080 - What I remember about being in court 515 00:33:18,130 --> 00:33:21,283 was having to lie to the judge. 516 00:33:25,550 --> 00:33:26,383 Sorry. 517 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,910 - I have one case that sticks in my mind where the child 518 00:33:30,910 --> 00:33:34,210 wrote me and told me that all of things she had 519 00:33:34,210 --> 00:33:37,023 complained about in detail had all been a lie. 520 00:33:38,170 --> 00:33:41,690 - My step-dad was gonna be my real dad now. 521 00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:45,717 I remember telling mom something along the lines of, 522 00:33:45,717 --> 00:33:49,097 "I don't feel this way about my step-dad. 523 00:33:49,097 --> 00:33:51,510 "I don't want my step-dad to be my dad." 524 00:33:51,510 --> 00:33:55,060 And she told me that basically it was too late to say that 525 00:33:55,060 --> 00:33:57,653 and it was out of my hands at that point. 526 00:33:59,050 --> 00:34:01,580 I was scared, to be honest, so I lied 527 00:34:01,580 --> 00:34:03,197 and I said, "Yeah, I'm okay with this. 528 00:34:03,197 --> 00:34:05,730 "I'm comfortable with this, this is what I want," 529 00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:10,730 and I felt a lot of guilt for that for a long time. 530 00:34:15,070 --> 00:34:17,760 Like, it was my fault that I felt that way 531 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,100 because I should just rewire my brain 532 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:22,870 and think the way they think, which was 533 00:34:22,870 --> 00:34:24,920 I shouldn't have a relationship with him. 534 00:34:33,810 --> 00:34:35,823 I started smoking when I was 12, 535 00:34:37,230 --> 00:34:39,513 cutting myself regularly. 536 00:34:44,050 --> 00:34:49,050 I don't recall any kind of follow-up or check-up. 537 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,400 I was never talked to by a social worker 538 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,927 or a psychologist on anything about it. 539 00:34:55,927 --> 00:34:59,010 (somber piano music) 540 00:35:04,770 --> 00:35:09,030 I had a boyfriend, I had a talk with him one day 541 00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:11,143 about my situation with my father. 542 00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:15,640 - She just felt like she couldn't really talk 543 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,180 about her father, Dizzy, around her mother 544 00:35:18,180 --> 00:35:21,070 and her step-father and I just gave her somebody 545 00:35:21,070 --> 00:35:23,390 in her corner to fight for her decision 546 00:35:23,390 --> 00:35:25,550 and whether or not she wanted to pursue it. 547 00:35:25,550 --> 00:35:28,050 The worst thin gthat could happen is you never talk 548 00:35:28,050 --> 00:35:30,890 to him again, but the best case scenario 549 00:35:30,890 --> 00:35:34,082 is so much brighter than that, you know. 550 00:35:34,082 --> 00:35:37,332 (delicate piano music) 551 00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:42,053 - I contacted dad. 552 00:35:43,550 --> 00:35:46,730 I was on the phone with my dad for the first time 553 00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:50,943 since I was 10 and it was like the most crazy feeling. 554 00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:58,770 Then I found out that my mom and my step-dad 555 00:35:58,770 --> 00:36:00,943 started listening to our phone calls. 556 00:36:03,450 --> 00:36:06,580 I got into a very vicious argument 557 00:36:08,610 --> 00:36:10,310 and I ended up getting kicked out. 558 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:15,223 - She had called me and let me know that she was homeless. 559 00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:21,550 She was 14 and I have no legal right to drive up 560 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,440 and pick her up, she's not my child according to the courts. 561 00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:32,570 - They came to pick me up, my step-dad and my mom, 562 00:36:32,570 --> 00:36:35,040 and basically told me that if I wanted to live 563 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,470 in that house and have a happy family, 564 00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:41,373 I needed to cut ties with my real father. 565 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,830 The family kind of changed after that. 566 00:36:45,830 --> 00:36:46,663 Things were different. 567 00:36:46,663 --> 00:36:48,810 People weren't really acknowledging me. 568 00:36:48,810 --> 00:36:50,720 People were treating me poorly. 569 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:54,831 Yeah, I felt like I was the enemy in my own house. 570 00:36:54,831 --> 00:36:58,331 (engaging dramatic music) 571 00:37:11,458 --> 00:37:14,650 - And I think about 60 or 70 of these interviews. 572 00:37:14,650 --> 00:37:17,837 Just like with domestic violence, people blame the victim. 573 00:37:17,837 --> 00:37:19,067 "What did this parent do? 574 00:37:19,067 --> 00:37:20,527 "They must be doing something to make 575 00:37:20,527 --> 00:37:22,760 "this child not want to see them." 576 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,987 It shows an ignorance of what human development is like 577 00:37:26,987 --> 00:37:30,860 and the power that a parent has in that child's life 578 00:37:30,860 --> 00:37:32,460 and how they perceive the world. 579 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,193 This child has been brain-washed. 580 00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:39,490 They hate that parent or they inherently don't trust them. 581 00:37:39,490 --> 00:37:40,323 They don't like 'em and they 582 00:37:40,323 --> 00:37:42,130 don't have a good reason for it. 583 00:37:42,130 --> 00:37:46,260 - My dad had my brother snoop through my mom's paperwork. 584 00:37:46,260 --> 00:37:47,750 - And I got to the point where I resented going 585 00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:49,777 with my father, I would yell at him, I would say, 586 00:37:49,777 --> 00:37:51,570 "I hate you, why are you doing this?" 587 00:37:51,570 --> 00:37:54,137 - It was always ingrained in me that my mom was the enemy 588 00:37:54,137 --> 00:37:56,240 and that I shouldn't want to see her. 589 00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:58,870 - And how much of a liar she was, and all 590 00:37:58,870 --> 00:38:01,683 these terrible things about her that I knew wasn't true. 591 00:38:04,260 --> 00:38:05,370 - [Ginger] What goes through the mind 592 00:38:05,370 --> 00:38:08,490 of a child trained to hate a parent? 593 00:38:08,490 --> 00:38:11,703 We talked to Candis, who was brave enough to come forward. 594 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,533 - I became deeply fearful of my dad. 595 00:38:17,540 --> 00:38:21,220 Iranian culture is not exactly popular in the United States 596 00:38:21,220 --> 00:38:25,130 and my mom showed me that film "Not Without My Daughter." 597 00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:27,100 - We're not going back, we're staying here. 598 00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:28,700 I want us to live in Iran. 599 00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:31,400 - And, told me this is what your dad's culture is. 600 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:32,720 They're all kidnappers. 601 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:35,053 They wanna steal children and hurt women. 602 00:38:35,918 --> 00:38:36,751 - Mommy! 603 00:38:38,130 --> 00:38:40,873 - She really wanted to erase our identity. 604 00:38:42,290 --> 00:38:44,940 It was really a very slow process 605 00:38:44,940 --> 00:38:49,940 of conditioning me into accepting statements 606 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,160 that I otherwise would not have believed. 607 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,630 My dad would go to hug me and I would reject him 608 00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:59,170 and I confronted him every chance I got, 609 00:38:59,170 --> 00:39:01,150 to scream and yell at him about 610 00:39:01,150 --> 00:39:05,540 why he was a bad person, why his culture was so bad, 611 00:39:05,540 --> 00:39:10,243 and rejecting everything that made him, him. 612 00:39:12,990 --> 00:39:15,200 When I was at his house when he would manage 613 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:20,200 to get visitation, I would go through his papers. 614 00:39:20,780 --> 00:39:23,610 I knew what I needed to do when I was around 615 00:39:23,610 --> 00:39:26,850 his information and that was to steal it and give it 616 00:39:26,850 --> 00:39:31,490 to my mom so she could get him fired and this 617 00:39:31,490 --> 00:39:32,690 and that, and that's what she would do. 618 00:39:32,690 --> 00:39:36,720 She would call these companies and make accusations 619 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:39,053 pertaining to his national origin. 620 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,230 That's one of the hardest things, 621 00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:46,940 because there was a lot of abuse in my house, 622 00:39:46,940 --> 00:39:51,940 growing up with my mom and those scars are there, 623 00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:56,190 but the scars of guilt are just as powerful, 624 00:39:56,190 --> 00:40:01,190 and I can't take it back, I can't get time back, 625 00:40:03,775 --> 00:40:08,070 and no matter how many times I tell myself 626 00:40:08,070 --> 00:40:12,143 or someone else tells me, that there was nothing I could do, 627 00:40:14,810 --> 00:40:18,930 that I was gonna be powerless to this campaign 628 00:40:18,930 --> 00:40:23,930 of denigration, and thinking I need to tell somebody, 629 00:40:27,437 --> 00:40:28,533 and the thought that would always stop me 630 00:40:28,533 --> 00:40:30,520 was "Who's gonna listen?" 631 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,847 They don't listen to my dad, he's an adult. 632 00:40:32,847 --> 00:40:35,177 "Who's gonna listen to a 10-year-old? 633 00:40:35,177 --> 00:40:36,480 "And then what's gonna happen to me? 634 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,237 "They're not gonna give me to my dad 635 00:40:39,237 --> 00:40:41,197 "and I don't even know if I know him anymore. 636 00:40:41,197 --> 00:40:43,157 "What if some of the stuff my mom says is true? 637 00:40:43,157 --> 00:40:44,157 "What if I'm wrong? 638 00:40:44,157 --> 00:40:45,682 "I'm just a kid." 639 00:40:45,682 --> 00:40:48,265 (somber music) 640 00:40:58,818 --> 00:41:02,318 (engaging dramatic music) 641 00:41:07,070 --> 00:41:09,150 - [Ginger] After half a decade in Family Court, 642 00:41:09,150 --> 00:41:13,010 a drastic ruling, no contact between the father and any 643 00:41:13,010 --> 00:41:16,433 of the children until family therapy had been completed. 644 00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:20,540 As the courts often don't diagnose alienation, 645 00:41:20,540 --> 00:41:22,510 the judgment made the local papers, 646 00:41:22,510 --> 00:41:25,923 which published the entire 120 page ruling. 647 00:41:30,610 --> 00:41:33,420 - The ruling was made that he should enter 648 00:41:33,420 --> 00:41:36,150 a family reunification program, 649 00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:40,743 and have temporary no communication with the father. 650 00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:46,600 I believe that the father had no intention 651 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,770 on Brandyn participating in the program, 652 00:41:50,770 --> 00:41:53,693 and so there were plans made for him to leave. 653 00:41:58,340 --> 00:42:01,325 - We get a phone call, he's in England. 654 00:42:01,325 --> 00:42:03,610 (plane hums) 655 00:42:03,610 --> 00:42:05,290 - [Ginger] After the ruling Brandyn 656 00:42:05,290 --> 00:42:07,870 ran away from home at age 16. 657 00:42:07,870 --> 00:42:10,370 His father claimed he didn't know where he was, 658 00:42:10,370 --> 00:42:12,510 but he was given money and a passport, 659 00:42:12,510 --> 00:42:14,350 and resurfaced in a family friend's home 660 00:42:14,350 --> 00:42:17,780 in the UK, his father's birthplace. 661 00:42:17,780 --> 00:42:20,240 - He wanted all the orders dropped, for him 662 00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:23,170 to be able to just go straight back to his dad's house. 663 00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:25,673 That would be the only way he would come back. 664 00:42:26,780 --> 00:42:30,100 I'm going to read the Cafcass report 665 00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:34,067 from Child Protection Services in the UK. 666 00:42:34,067 --> 00:42:36,127 "Brandyn said nothing that helped 667 00:42:36,127 --> 00:42:38,707 "in my understanding of what has caused 668 00:42:38,707 --> 00:42:41,997 "the breakdown of his relationship with his mother." 669 00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:50,730 The judge in England decided that he could stay there 670 00:42:50,730 --> 00:42:52,940 and he would be made ward of the court, and that 671 00:42:52,940 --> 00:42:57,520 she could not force him to get on the plane to come back. 672 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,520 - What a stupid judge, you basically just ruined my life. 673 00:43:02,902 --> 00:43:06,402 (engaging dramatic music) 674 00:43:14,047 --> 00:43:15,220 - It is just like a death. 675 00:43:15,220 --> 00:43:19,870 You completely lose your child, but it never ends. 676 00:43:19,870 --> 00:43:22,480 It's like walking around with a knife in your heart 677 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,523 and it just keeps getting twisted. 678 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,880 - My sister was very similar to my mom 679 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,140 and she became very angry, and hated my father. 680 00:43:34,140 --> 00:43:36,950 - Growing up we never had that relationship as brothers. 681 00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:38,160 - My dad basically took my little 682 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,120 sister away and he moved away. 683 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,750 - I haven't seen my brother probably 684 00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:43,450 since I was one and a half or two. 685 00:43:51,210 --> 00:43:54,300 - After I hit like five, I didn't 686 00:43:54,300 --> 00:43:57,393 see them again until she was 18. 687 00:43:59,810 --> 00:44:04,340 I just remember when my dad got a phone call 688 00:44:04,340 --> 00:44:08,870 from the two of them, orchestrated by somebody else, 689 00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:10,400 saying that they didn't wanna see us anymore, 690 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,160 and I took it personally, I had this permanent idea 691 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,220 that my sisters didn't wanna be in my life. 692 00:44:16,220 --> 00:44:20,330 I tried to reach out to Cheylsea on three separate occasions 693 00:44:20,330 --> 00:44:23,080 and she told me she didn't want anything to do with me. 694 00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:25,603 - [Ginger] Did she give you a reason? 695 00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:28,550 - She didn't give me a reason. 696 00:44:30,740 --> 00:44:31,740 - I never knew that. 697 00:44:32,779 --> 00:44:33,612 - Yeah. 698 00:44:37,590 --> 00:44:38,563 How old were you? 699 00:44:39,636 --> 00:44:40,469 - I was 10. 700 00:44:42,620 --> 00:44:43,693 - I never knew that. 701 00:44:47,059 --> 00:44:47,892 I'm sorry. 702 00:44:48,740 --> 00:44:49,573 - It's okay. 703 00:44:52,430 --> 00:44:54,327 - [Ashlynn] What did your message say? 704 00:44:54,327 --> 00:44:56,827 - "I'm Carala, your little sister and I miss you." 705 00:44:58,071 --> 00:45:01,321 (delicate piano music) 706 00:45:02,530 --> 00:45:07,530 - [Ashlynn] The last time I spoke to my older sister was 707 00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:12,113 through a message that I sent to her on social media. 708 00:45:15,020 --> 00:45:18,120 - She'd been at odds with mom and dad for a while. 709 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,550 There was something she said that just rubbed me 710 00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:22,080 the wrong way, and I just shot her a message 711 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,787 and let her know, "That really upsets me. 712 00:45:23,787 --> 00:45:26,260 "I'm uncomfortable with this, I need some space." 713 00:45:26,260 --> 00:45:28,980 Just because I needed not to be a part of that, 714 00:45:28,980 --> 00:45:32,077 and she put it on my mom as you know, 715 00:45:32,077 --> 00:45:34,647 "This is you telling Cheylsea what to do. 716 00:45:34,647 --> 00:45:36,557 "This is you pulling Cheylsea away." 717 00:45:41,620 --> 00:45:44,320 The Facebook post, it was like a picture of an angry woman 718 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,810 and it was something about, go ahead and disagree 719 00:45:46,810 --> 00:45:49,070 with me, I'll just say you beat me 720 00:45:49,070 --> 00:45:51,290 and you'll never see your kids again. 721 00:45:51,290 --> 00:45:52,480 Don't get me wrong, I totally agree 722 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,420 that there's always a bias in a divorce court. 723 00:45:54,420 --> 00:45:56,830 Sometimes the men are made to look like the bad guys. 724 00:45:56,830 --> 00:45:59,210 It really sucks, but he kept deflecting 725 00:45:59,210 --> 00:46:02,003 this towards my mother, it made me angry, 726 00:46:07,324 --> 00:46:09,867 and I let him know, "Hey, I don't appreciate 727 00:46:09,867 --> 00:46:10,967 "you talking about me like this. 728 00:46:10,967 --> 00:46:12,970 "I don't appreciate you talking about my mother like this. 729 00:46:12,970 --> 00:46:14,307 "I am my own person. 730 00:46:14,307 --> 00:46:16,317 "I have my own life up here. 731 00:46:16,317 --> 00:46:18,467 "I have Robert, who's raised me and I consider him 732 00:46:18,467 --> 00:46:20,852 "my father and I'm sorry, but that's that." 733 00:46:20,852 --> 00:46:23,435 (somber music) 734 00:46:35,580 --> 00:46:38,720 - My parents fought about everything 735 00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:41,430 from, who pays for this sport? 736 00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:44,770 - They are the kind of people to fight over money, a lot. 737 00:46:44,770 --> 00:46:47,810 - My dad wasn't helping whatsoever and my mom 738 00:46:47,810 --> 00:46:50,020 was like, "No, you have four kids." 739 00:46:50,020 --> 00:46:52,756 - Decided to file child support and that takes 740 00:46:52,756 --> 00:46:55,440 most of his money out of his check, 741 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:56,970 'cause he's working at a grocery store. 742 00:46:56,970 --> 00:46:59,872 So what is that, you know, nothing. 743 00:46:59,872 --> 00:47:02,705 (motorcycle hums) 744 00:47:04,008 --> 00:47:07,010 - I was childish, immature, and angry. 745 00:47:07,940 --> 00:47:09,130 You're not gonna let me see my kids, 746 00:47:09,130 --> 00:47:10,643 I'm not gonna give you the money, 747 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,250 and it took 'em about three or four months 748 00:47:13,250 --> 00:47:14,943 to find me and garnish my wages, 749 00:47:16,780 --> 00:47:21,780 and I got $12.45 that paycheck, $2.05. 750 00:47:22,050 --> 00:47:26,633 This is my favorite, I got a paycheck for zero. 751 00:47:27,980 --> 00:47:32,160 I paid her off and now I'm paying California off. 752 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,600 The money that I'm paying goes directly to the state. 753 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,920 I mean, it could go for anything, garbage collecting, 754 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,770 pothole repairs, I have no idea. 755 00:47:40,770 --> 00:47:44,440 I just know that the state continues to take money. 756 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,250 Not a dime of money that I pay out to child support goes 757 00:47:47,250 --> 00:47:50,173 to any of my children, not a single penny. 758 00:47:52,460 --> 00:47:55,080 I owed so much because they charge such 759 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:56,310 a large amount of interest, that it 760 00:47:56,310 --> 00:47:58,410 just built up, and built up, and built up. 761 00:48:04,860 --> 00:48:06,010 - [Ginger] Dizzy isn't the only parent 762 00:48:06,010 --> 00:48:09,540 who found himself in debt to the child support system. 763 00:48:09,540 --> 00:48:13,270 The child support system can lead to parents being erased. 764 00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:15,790 Child support creates a financial incentive 765 00:48:15,790 --> 00:48:18,750 for parents to fight for more parenting time. 766 00:48:18,750 --> 00:48:22,140 In many jurisdictions more custody time means 767 00:48:22,140 --> 00:48:24,760 more child support, with even one 768 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,950 extra night making a huge difference. 769 00:48:27,950 --> 00:48:30,750 States also earn more federal dollars to enforce 770 00:48:30,750 --> 00:48:33,610 child support and if shared parenting means 771 00:48:33,610 --> 00:48:36,310 no child support then there's a disincentive 772 00:48:36,310 --> 00:48:40,660 to grant joint custody or to make it the default option. 773 00:48:40,660 --> 00:48:43,910 A parent can lose their driver's license, passport, 774 00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:47,760 and even be incarcerated for not paying child support, 775 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,490 but because it's civil court, 776 00:48:49,490 --> 00:48:51,753 you have no right to a public defender. 777 00:48:53,470 --> 00:48:55,150 And the worst part? 778 00:48:55,150 --> 00:48:58,280 In many cases the support doesn't go to the kids. 779 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,880 The state keeps flat fees, percentages, 780 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,100 interest payments, and will hold on to all of it, 781 00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:06,343 if the custodial parent receives welfare. 782 00:49:07,300 --> 00:49:09,510 The billions of dollars spent on child support 783 00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:11,520 enforcement could be spent on programs 784 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,105 that help families, like mediation, 785 00:49:14,105 --> 00:49:17,913 mental health services, and enforcing custody orders. 786 00:49:21,984 --> 00:49:24,484 (birds chirp) 787 00:49:26,370 --> 00:49:29,390 - We are at the Shasta County Child Support Division Office 788 00:49:29,390 --> 00:49:32,380 to make my final payment on child support. 789 00:49:43,704 --> 00:49:46,371 (machine whirs) 790 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:57,273 That's it. 791 00:49:58,811 --> 00:50:00,894 (laughs) 792 00:50:02,550 --> 00:50:06,160 I am over this freaking place and if they weren't 793 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,273 so nice I would drop two fingers up at this building. 794 00:50:10,395 --> 00:50:12,895 (engine revs) 795 00:50:20,030 --> 00:50:22,857 - No one comes out saying, "I wanna be a bad parent. 796 00:50:22,857 --> 00:50:24,470 "I wanna be a bad dad." 797 00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:27,120 Life circumstances as well as things that happen 798 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,616 to them do that and most of that is about economics. 799 00:50:30,616 --> 00:50:34,116 (engaging dramatic music) 800 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,660 You know, we have to change our perception 801 00:50:40,660 --> 00:50:43,240 and our vision of fathers. 802 00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:46,660 - The idea of the deadbeat, especially the deadbeat dad 803 00:50:46,660 --> 00:50:49,890 is an outdated and incorrect idea. 804 00:50:49,890 --> 00:50:52,720 - Anybody in here wanna share a situation where they're 805 00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:55,030 paying child support but they're not able 806 00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:57,130 to see their children as much as they would like to? 807 00:50:57,130 --> 00:51:00,500 - All in all for all my kids I pay $1175 808 00:51:00,500 --> 00:51:02,670 a month in child support and I have 809 00:51:02,670 --> 00:51:07,670 seen my twins two times in nine months. 810 00:51:08,780 --> 00:51:11,330 - I wasn't really able to put up much of a fight in court 811 00:51:11,330 --> 00:51:14,300 because I was making 30 bucks every two weeks. 812 00:51:14,300 --> 00:51:17,660 - These fathers are not deadbeat, they're dead broke. 813 00:51:17,660 --> 00:51:20,270 - When I speak to some men vent their frustrations 814 00:51:20,270 --> 00:51:23,140 about the child support system and why they're angry, 815 00:51:23,140 --> 00:51:25,580 I explain to them that child support is a business. 816 00:51:25,580 --> 00:51:28,706 If you don't pay your child support you're gonna go to jail. 817 00:51:28,706 --> 00:51:32,206 (engaging dramatic music) 818 00:51:40,770 --> 00:51:43,340 - We heard from dozens of parents who said this state's 819 00:51:43,340 --> 00:51:46,780 child support system is broken and failing families. 820 00:51:46,780 --> 00:51:49,950 - [Reporter] Turner paid a total of $1,935 821 00:51:49,950 --> 00:51:52,510 in child support, but "News 5 Investigates" 822 00:51:52,510 --> 00:51:57,180 learned his ex only received $1386, and while 823 00:51:57,180 --> 00:51:59,530 the Department of Human Services would not tell us 824 00:51:59,530 --> 00:52:01,720 specifically where it was deposited, 825 00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:03,900 they did tell us they kept it. 826 00:52:03,900 --> 00:52:06,030 - [Reporter] The officer told him he's a deadbeat dad. 827 00:52:06,030 --> 00:52:07,370 He's under arrest. 828 00:52:07,370 --> 00:52:10,010 - The system of child support and how we put that 829 00:52:11,008 --> 00:52:12,870 into place are barriers to successfully 830 00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:15,938 having fathers involved with their children's lives. 831 00:52:15,938 --> 00:52:19,471 That's not the intent, but that's certainly the result. 832 00:52:19,471 --> 00:52:24,054 (barbershop banter over child support) 833 00:52:31,546 --> 00:52:33,770 - 'Cause you're back on your child support. 834 00:52:33,770 --> 00:52:34,850 - Yeah. 835 00:52:34,850 --> 00:52:39,680 - I'm a parent, married, two children and my responsibility 836 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,370 as a parent never goes away whether I'm working or not. 837 00:52:43,370 --> 00:52:46,830 You can't have a child and not 838 00:52:46,830 --> 00:52:48,390 take care of your responsibility. 839 00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:50,843 - When it came to Walter, my brother's situation. 840 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,600 My mother damn had rescued him several times. 841 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:56,578 - [Barber] From? 842 00:52:56,578 --> 00:53:00,920 - Picking up his rear in child support. 843 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,160 They paid it up, caught it up, 844 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:07,292 and he would always get back behind again, 845 00:53:07,292 --> 00:53:10,317 even when he was continually paying. 846 00:53:12,990 --> 00:53:17,820 Walter may have been behind in his child support payments, 847 00:53:17,820 --> 00:53:22,820 but he was involved and active in his children's lives. 848 00:53:23,070 --> 00:53:26,760 His children were staying and visiting him, 849 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,253 the weekend that he was actually murdered. 850 00:53:30,510 --> 00:53:32,160 - The other big story we're covering tonight, 851 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,350 the police shooting death of an apparently unarmed man. 852 00:53:35,350 --> 00:53:36,870 - [Reporter] Today in north Charleston, 853 00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:38,540 the anger boiled over. 854 00:53:38,540 --> 00:53:40,783 - We just want this thing to change, 855 00:53:40,783 --> 00:53:42,590 so that no other family would have 856 00:53:42,590 --> 00:53:46,817 to suffer the way my family is suffering right now. 857 00:53:46,817 --> 00:53:48,610 - [Holt] The deadly encounter between Walter Scott 858 00:53:48,610 --> 00:53:50,490 and Police Officer Michael Slager 859 00:53:50,490 --> 00:53:53,330 began with a traffic stop for a broken tail light. 860 00:53:53,330 --> 00:53:54,620 - [Reporter] It was a fateful decision, 861 00:53:54,620 --> 00:53:57,680 the moment Walter Scott decided to bolt from his car. 862 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,683 - There's no justification for what I see on that video. 863 00:54:03,432 --> 00:54:06,182 (gun shots fire) 864 00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:12,370 - I don't know why Walter ran. 865 00:54:12,370 --> 00:54:16,440 He took that to the grave with him, but I think that's 866 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,573 where the child support may have played a part. 867 00:54:21,730 --> 00:54:23,940 It wasn't like he was trying to hurt his children. 868 00:54:23,940 --> 00:54:25,900 He was caught up in the system. 869 00:54:25,900 --> 00:54:28,170 - [Reporter] A warrant had been issued for Scott's arrest. 870 00:54:28,170 --> 00:54:29,810 Court documents show he owed more 871 00:54:29,810 --> 00:54:33,155 than $18000 in child support payments. 872 00:54:33,155 --> 00:54:36,155 (melancholic music) 873 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,690 - Can you get a court-appointed attorney 874 00:54:47,690 --> 00:54:49,700 to represent you in a child support case? 875 00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:50,940 - [Anthony] No, no, no. 876 00:54:50,940 --> 00:54:53,160 - Only in a criminal case. 877 00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:54,720 It's about access. 878 00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:56,170 - [Anthony] Access and money. 879 00:54:57,720 --> 00:55:01,850 - But does the judge give the father information 880 00:55:01,850 --> 00:55:04,314 about what his rights are as a father? 881 00:55:04,314 --> 00:55:06,313 - No, no, there's 40 people in there. 882 00:55:06,313 --> 00:55:07,930 He's moving cases in and out. 883 00:55:07,930 --> 00:55:09,430 He ain't got time for education. 884 00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:11,163 - And you have no idea that you can get 885 00:55:11,163 --> 00:55:13,435 joint custody, shared custody-- 886 00:55:13,435 --> 00:55:14,900 - [Anthony] Nothing, no. 887 00:55:14,900 --> 00:55:16,200 - That's not their job. 888 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,100 The ultimate goal in Family Court should be what? 889 00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:19,933 The child's best interests. 890 00:55:19,933 --> 00:55:21,330 - [Barber] To preserve the family. 891 00:55:21,330 --> 00:55:22,163 - Yes. 892 00:55:22,163 --> 00:55:24,900 - But if the dad is not in the child's life, 893 00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:26,160 how is that preserving the family? 894 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,610 - Because I don't think the court system 895 00:55:27,610 --> 00:55:29,687 is created to preserve families. 896 00:55:29,687 --> 00:55:30,520 - No, it's not. 897 00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,290 - I think the court system is created 898 00:55:32,290 --> 00:55:34,859 to make it more punitive to parents. 899 00:55:34,859 --> 00:55:38,359 (engaging dramatic music) 900 00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:44,980 - Once he got out, the child support 901 00:55:44,980 --> 00:55:48,320 was still being due but he was not able to pay 902 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,470 because he lost his job for being arrested. 903 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,096 How does the system expect you 904 00:55:54,096 --> 00:55:57,997 to catch up when you're locked up. 905 00:55:57,997 --> 00:56:01,497 (melancholic piano music) 906 00:56:02,430 --> 00:56:04,280 He'd already been arrested twice 907 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:08,783 prior to him getting murdered. 908 00:56:10,930 --> 00:56:14,250 I believe Walter was not a deadbeat dad. 909 00:56:14,250 --> 00:56:16,710 After paying 1000s of dollars back, 910 00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:20,890 then still being behind, there was no catching up. 911 00:56:20,890 --> 00:56:22,267 So what do you do? 912 00:56:24,393 --> 00:56:26,800 I don't think a man should have to die 913 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:31,320 or feel so upset about the child support system 914 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,610 that you don't care and you're gonna run for your life. 915 00:56:34,610 --> 00:56:38,110 (melancholic piano music) 916 00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:56,990 - I didn't have the father figure in my life. 917 00:56:56,990 --> 00:56:59,120 I didn't know how to be a man. 918 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,060 - If he was really present in my life, 919 00:57:01,060 --> 00:57:04,490 I would probably not be chasing boys. 920 00:57:04,490 --> 00:57:06,500 - As far as relationships go, 921 00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:08,220 I have a lot of trust issues now. 922 00:57:08,220 --> 00:57:10,780 - I don't see the point in allowing to someone to get close 923 00:57:10,780 --> 00:57:13,405 to you if the end of the day they're just going to hurt you. 924 00:57:13,405 --> 00:57:15,830 - It caused a lot of depression, anger. 925 00:57:15,830 --> 00:57:18,953 - I just kept calling him dead because he was never there. 926 00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:24,600 - [Ginger] How would the lives of these children 927 00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,800 been different if the courts assumed 928 00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,493 that both parents should be equally involved? 929 00:57:31,373 --> 00:57:34,706 (bright engaging music) 930 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,290 - A new bill making its way through Lansing, 931 00:57:39,290 --> 00:57:41,950 would make default custody 50/50, 932 00:57:41,950 --> 00:57:44,820 for both the mother and a father following a divorce. 933 00:57:44,820 --> 00:57:47,140 - Public support for it is huge. 934 00:57:47,140 --> 00:57:50,680 The legislators told me that they had more calls 935 00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,610 to support the Shared Parenting Bill 936 00:57:52,610 --> 00:57:54,790 than they did the football stadium. 937 00:57:54,790 --> 00:57:57,410 - The bill sets the stage so a child, 938 00:57:57,410 --> 00:57:58,420 which is in their best interest. 939 00:57:58,420 --> 00:58:00,887 - Their both responsibility is the best for the children. 940 00:58:00,887 --> 00:58:03,100 - It presumes both parents are fit. 941 00:58:03,100 --> 00:58:05,220 - We need more clarity in law to support 942 00:58:05,220 --> 00:58:07,240 what is best for children, shared parenting, 943 00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:09,140 and this helps move in that direction. 944 00:58:10,633 --> 00:58:13,390 - In any family, whether it's a man and man, 945 00:58:13,390 --> 00:58:15,510 women and women, it doesn't matter. 946 00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:17,290 There's a ying and a yang and that's 947 00:58:17,290 --> 00:58:19,383 what makes a family work. 948 00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,750 - A default shared parenting plan would be when two people 949 00:58:24,750 --> 00:58:27,510 are separating it would be presumed that both parents 950 00:58:27,510 --> 00:58:29,600 will have an equal role in terms 951 00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,010 of decision-making and custody with their children. 952 00:58:33,010 --> 00:58:36,350 If there is abuse, or some other problem, 953 00:58:36,350 --> 00:58:39,630 then you would have a custody evaluation happen. 954 00:58:39,630 --> 00:58:42,060 We now have abundant research that shows that children 955 00:58:42,060 --> 00:58:44,513 do much better if they have shared parenting. 956 00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,370 - It's even more important for children who are going 957 00:58:48,370 --> 00:58:50,360 through a divorce to have a healthy relationship 958 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:54,180 with both parents because it buffers them from the conflict. 959 00:58:54,180 --> 00:58:55,920 - We just assumed that children 960 00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,740 who moved 50 times a year would be more stressed 961 00:58:59,740 --> 00:59:02,340 than those who live only with one parent. 962 00:59:02,340 --> 00:59:06,660 - The packing did suck, but I got them every other week, 963 00:59:06,660 --> 00:59:09,603 and now looking back I appreciate it a lot more. 964 00:59:12,310 --> 00:59:15,210 - I am convinced that the Swedish system 965 00:59:15,210 --> 00:59:19,150 where you don't have any money to gain 966 00:59:19,150 --> 00:59:22,473 from a divorce is beneficial for children. 967 00:59:25,700 --> 00:59:29,620 We have a system where very few separating couples 968 00:59:29,620 --> 00:59:33,763 go to court, most people just solve this between themselves. 969 00:59:34,940 --> 00:59:36,350 - We have this form. 970 00:59:36,350 --> 00:59:40,830 It's an agreement that we share the custody of our son. 971 00:59:40,830 --> 00:59:44,470 - You just print it out, sign it, and send it. 972 00:59:44,470 --> 00:59:46,760 - [Man] We don't have to go to court, 973 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,233 or hire a lawyer, or anything to do this. 974 00:59:50,304 --> 00:59:53,054 (engaging music) 975 01:00:05,780 --> 01:00:08,170 - [Ginger] In Malmo, Sweden, sisters Eleanor 976 01:00:08,170 --> 01:00:11,070 and Anna have spent equal time with their parents 977 01:00:11,070 --> 01:00:13,733 since they separated over 15 years ago. 978 01:00:14,660 --> 01:00:18,233 - We have two different lives more or less. 979 01:00:19,380 --> 01:00:21,858 You know you have life with mum and your house with mum, 980 01:00:21,858 --> 01:00:24,430 and then you've got your life with dad. 981 01:00:24,430 --> 01:00:26,417 I find that very fun. 982 01:00:26,417 --> 01:00:29,000 (bright music) 983 01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,020 - In Sweden, it's not really a decision. 984 01:00:44,020 --> 01:00:47,510 It's very hard to remove the guardianship from one parent. 985 01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:50,950 That parent has to be really, really unfit. 986 01:00:50,950 --> 01:00:54,229 Otherwise, you know, you're stuck with 'em. 987 01:00:54,229 --> 01:00:56,979 (engaging music) 988 01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,760 - What parents discuss in Sweden when they split up 989 01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,893 is how the children should live more than money. 990 01:01:12,350 --> 01:01:14,290 - It's obviously not perfect. 991 01:01:14,290 --> 01:01:17,640 If one of the parents doesn't want to cooperate 992 01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:21,420 and makes it difficult then they're always going to do that. 993 01:01:21,420 --> 01:01:25,440 But, if the basis of the law is going to be split-evenly 994 01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,430 and both parents are gonna be involved, 995 01:01:27,430 --> 01:01:29,603 then at least you have a better starting point. 996 01:01:31,270 --> 01:01:32,900 - Think about the child. 997 01:01:32,900 --> 01:01:34,540 It's not just what you want. 998 01:01:34,540 --> 01:01:35,997 It's what they're going to grow up with 999 01:01:35,997 --> 01:01:37,520 and what they're going to have, 1000 01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:41,523 and this is their life too, it's not just yours. 1001 01:01:43,256 --> 01:01:45,640 - The great news is also that if the marriage itself 1002 01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,410 was more conflictual but you learn to get 1003 01:01:47,410 --> 01:01:50,750 along better afterwards, kids do much better. 1004 01:01:50,750 --> 01:01:53,370 If default shared parenting became the norm, 1005 01:01:53,370 --> 01:01:56,290 the legal system could be more focused on things 1006 01:01:56,290 --> 01:02:00,430 that really are significant, document the child abuse cases. 1007 01:02:00,430 --> 01:02:03,020 It would be wonderful if people thought this is sort 1008 01:02:03,020 --> 01:02:05,210 of where we're starting and only if we prove 1009 01:02:05,210 --> 01:02:07,610 that we cannot do it, that's when we have 1010 01:02:07,610 --> 01:02:09,410 to move to this adversarial process. 1011 01:02:10,780 --> 01:02:12,180 It would really change the face 1012 01:02:12,180 --> 01:02:13,833 of how people manage divorces. 1013 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,630 - [Ginger] When parents can't reach an agreement 1014 01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:24,480 on their own, mediation can provide an alternative 1015 01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,650 to a courtroom trial and help them work together 1016 01:02:27,650 --> 01:02:29,933 in the best interests of their children. 1017 01:02:32,540 --> 01:02:36,660 - My theory on litigation is if any custody case gets 1018 01:02:36,660 --> 01:02:40,210 in front of a judge, there is a mental health problem. 1019 01:02:40,210 --> 01:02:42,610 Either one or both of the litigants 1020 01:02:42,610 --> 01:02:45,933 have mental health issues or possibly the lawyers do. 1021 01:02:46,900 --> 01:02:50,800 - If you spend two or three days saying everything bad 1022 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,760 you can think of about the other person, 1023 01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,910 and I award some sort of a joint custody arrangement. 1024 01:02:56,910 --> 01:02:59,010 It's hard to undo the damage and have 1025 01:02:59,010 --> 01:03:01,653 people walk out and parent together. 1026 01:03:02,540 --> 01:03:06,750 Baltimore County decided to put on court staff, 1027 01:03:06,750 --> 01:03:09,100 mediators who worked just in the courthouse, 1028 01:03:09,100 --> 01:03:10,820 just doing court mediation. 1029 01:03:10,820 --> 01:03:14,950 I don't know of another court that has on staff mediators 1030 01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:17,300 that can provide high-quality outcomes. 1031 01:03:17,300 --> 01:03:19,280 - She'll make some recommendations, 1032 01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,510 which helpfully assist the family in resolving it amicably, 1033 01:03:22,510 --> 01:03:25,370 and without the need to try the case in court. 1034 01:03:25,370 --> 01:03:27,250 - I've seen it many times where 1035 01:03:27,250 --> 01:03:30,677 parents go in angry, aggressive-- 1036 01:03:30,677 --> 01:03:31,795 - I don't tell them that you're a drunk. 1037 01:03:31,795 --> 01:03:32,628 They know you are. 1038 01:03:32,628 --> 01:03:33,461 - Yes you do, stop. 1039 01:03:33,461 --> 01:03:36,500 - What is it that would help you to move forward? 1040 01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:38,830 - [Mary] And by the end of a mediation session 1041 01:03:38,830 --> 01:03:40,630 they're actually helping each other. 1042 01:03:44,170 --> 01:03:46,010 - I mean at the end of the day you'll have a trial 1043 01:03:46,010 --> 01:03:48,200 and a judge will make a decision. 1044 01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:49,690 Somebody always feels like they won. 1045 01:03:49,690 --> 01:03:51,260 Somebody feels like they lost. 1046 01:03:51,260 --> 01:03:53,030 They don't buy into the outcome. 1047 01:03:53,030 --> 01:03:55,373 It's not the best way to get to a good result. 1048 01:03:56,660 --> 01:03:59,040 You want a child to have as good a relationship 1049 01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,570 as they can have with both parents 1050 01:04:01,570 --> 01:04:05,566 and you want it to be as smooth as you can make it. 1051 01:04:05,566 --> 01:04:08,316 (engaging music) 1052 01:04:22,420 --> 01:04:24,960 - There's a lot of incentives to keep things 1053 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:26,200 the way they are, particularly 1054 01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,340 by the American Bar Association and other folks. 1055 01:04:29,340 --> 01:04:32,140 - There's a lot of money in divorce, 1056 01:04:32,140 --> 01:04:34,800 and with shared parenting there's less conflict, 1057 01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,230 less conflict, fewer billable hours. 1058 01:04:37,230 --> 01:04:38,510 - Pay up and you're on your way 1059 01:04:38,510 --> 01:04:41,015 to get ridding of that vermin you call a spouse. 1060 01:04:41,015 --> 01:04:43,765 (engaging music) 1061 01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:51,390 - There's very real potential for this state 1062 01:04:51,390 --> 01:04:53,830 to lose federal funding, and I'm talking millions, 1063 01:04:53,830 --> 01:04:56,060 possibly 100s of millions of dollars. 1064 01:04:56,060 --> 01:04:57,630 This issue has not been addressed 1065 01:04:57,630 --> 01:04:59,370 by those in favor of this law. 1066 01:04:59,370 --> 01:05:01,310 - What's in the best interest of the kid is not 1067 01:05:01,310 --> 01:05:03,160 to worry about how much federal dollars 1068 01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,610 we're gonna get from food stamps in this country. 1069 01:05:07,060 --> 01:05:08,893 That's ridiculous. 1070 01:05:08,893 --> 01:05:11,643 (engaging music) 1071 01:05:15,130 --> 01:05:17,870 - I represent the Family Law Foundation. 1072 01:05:17,870 --> 01:05:22,010 The Foundation is respectfully against the bill. 1073 01:05:22,010 --> 01:05:24,400 - In Florida, when the bill advanced though the Senate, 1074 01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,450 and the House, and was on its way to the Governor, 1075 01:05:26,450 --> 01:05:29,460 the Bar Association spent $11000 1076 01:05:29,460 --> 01:05:32,113 to hire emergency lobbyists to defeat the bill. 1077 01:05:33,670 --> 01:05:36,870 In North Dakota, they've been sued and lost, 1078 01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:41,360 because they misused $70000 to run an advertising campaign 1079 01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:43,851 against a shared parenting ballot measure. 1080 01:05:43,851 --> 01:05:44,858 - [Protestors] Sign the bill! 1081 01:05:44,858 --> 01:05:48,868 Sign the bill! 1082 01:05:50,100 --> 01:05:52,723 - [Ginger] Until the system is redesigned to help families, 1083 01:05:52,723 --> 01:05:57,723 Ashlynn, Lauren, Brian, and countless others 1084 01:05:58,010 --> 01:06:00,713 will attempt to heal their families on their own. 1085 01:06:03,290 --> 01:06:05,670 - My advice to parents divorcing with kids 1086 01:06:05,670 --> 01:06:10,300 is to be respectful to each other 1087 01:06:10,300 --> 01:06:12,680 and watch how you act around your children. 1088 01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:14,930 - I would ask her if she could keep my siblings 1089 01:06:14,930 --> 01:06:17,800 and I out of it, I know she didn't do it intentionally. 1090 01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,290 - They need to always let the child know 1091 01:06:20,290 --> 01:06:23,480 that there's love and support no matter what happens. 1092 01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:25,675 - To just be there for your kids. 1093 01:06:25,675 --> 01:06:27,623 - Don't be afraid to ask for help. 1094 01:06:35,380 --> 01:06:36,800 - By the way, I have a new line 1095 01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,350 of essential oils I'm carrying. 1096 01:06:40,090 --> 01:06:42,740 - I was right in the middle of doing a hair coloring. 1097 01:06:43,730 --> 01:06:46,180 I turn around and there's my wife Kelli 1098 01:06:46,180 --> 01:06:49,560 and my other daughter Carala, and then I saw her. 1099 01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:54,560 - And he dropped his hair dryer and just ran to me. 1100 01:06:56,730 --> 01:07:00,260 And, we both started crying. 1101 01:07:00,260 --> 01:07:03,520 And, the whole salon started clapping. 1102 01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:05,217 Like everybody knew the story. 1103 01:07:07,850 --> 01:07:10,273 - It was like a scene out of a movie. 1104 01:07:11,137 --> 01:07:13,720 (bright music) 1105 01:07:22,373 --> 01:07:24,100 - It was awesome. 1106 01:07:24,100 --> 01:07:27,068 It was probably one of the best moments of my life. 1107 01:07:27,068 --> 01:07:30,318 (delicate piano music) 1108 01:07:33,250 --> 01:07:35,483 It's amazing living with my dad. 1109 01:07:37,850 --> 01:07:38,753 He's great. 1110 01:07:44,561 --> 01:07:45,726 - Do you want toast? 1111 01:07:45,726 --> 01:07:46,871 - Yes, thanks. 1112 01:07:46,871 --> 01:07:49,813 - He is someone that I can always talk to. 1113 01:07:50,740 --> 01:07:54,450 He's nothing like I was told he was, 1114 01:07:54,450 --> 01:07:57,250 not even in the slightest. 1115 01:07:57,250 --> 01:07:59,070 - I'll go through anything and everything with you, 1116 01:07:59,070 --> 01:08:01,290 side-by-side, just like I said, 1117 01:08:01,290 --> 01:08:03,640 when you decide to get your GED and we do it, 1118 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,440 I'll go with you and I'll do it too. 1119 01:08:08,940 --> 01:08:10,570 My daughter here and I have been alienated 1120 01:08:10,570 --> 01:08:13,010 from each other for the majority of her life. 1121 01:08:13,010 --> 01:08:15,760 She called me and said, "Dad it's to move home." 1122 01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:16,823 And, she came home. 1123 01:08:17,910 --> 01:08:21,320 Well, I made the mistake when she was 10-years-old 1124 01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,590 to sign my rights away, I never got to see them again. 1125 01:08:24,590 --> 01:08:26,290 - Which was part of the deal. 1126 01:08:26,290 --> 01:08:27,260 - Yeah. 1127 01:08:27,260 --> 01:08:28,750 In about 10 minutes we're gonna leave 1128 01:08:28,750 --> 01:08:31,073 for the courthouse to file paperwork, 1129 01:08:32,820 --> 01:08:36,823 so I can legally re-adopt my daughter. 1130 01:08:37,870 --> 01:08:40,270 So she will be my daughter once 1131 01:08:40,270 --> 01:08:42,343 again in the eyes of the law. 1132 01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,730 Whereas in our hearts we know and it doesn't matter, 1133 01:08:46,730 --> 01:08:50,864 she's my little girl, if something was to happen 1134 01:08:50,864 --> 01:08:55,864 she wants to make sure that myself and her step-mom, 1135 01:08:57,020 --> 01:09:00,600 soon to be on the paperwork, her adopted mom, 1136 01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:02,860 will be the ones to make those tough choices 1137 01:09:02,860 --> 01:09:04,310 if they ever need to be made. 1138 01:09:09,790 --> 01:09:13,890 - I think she's always gonna be my mom 1139 01:09:13,890 --> 01:09:15,710 and I'm always gonna love her. 1140 01:09:15,710 --> 01:09:20,710 It's just she kind of lost the title of mom. 1141 01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:25,420 - To just wanna totally cut out one set 1142 01:09:25,420 --> 01:09:28,153 and go with other set, it was hard. 1143 01:09:38,820 --> 01:09:41,820 After a while I felt like since I had kind of done 1144 01:09:41,820 --> 01:09:44,350 a similar thing maybe I just need to back off 1145 01:09:44,350 --> 01:09:47,113 and give it some time and go from there. 1146 01:09:55,440 --> 01:09:56,480 - [Ginger] If you could talk to her 1147 01:09:56,480 --> 01:09:58,633 right now, what would you tell her? 1148 01:10:01,372 --> 01:10:03,063 - If I could talk to her right now? 1149 01:10:12,582 --> 01:10:13,581 I don't even know what I would say. 1150 01:10:13,581 --> 01:10:15,903 I would just be so happy that's she's talking to me. 1151 01:10:18,770 --> 01:10:21,990 - Sometimes when you see children as they grow up, 1152 01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:26,430 choose a side, perhaps even going towards the parent 1153 01:10:26,430 --> 01:10:28,510 that they didn't grow up with and rejecting 1154 01:10:28,510 --> 01:10:30,950 the parent that they did grow up with, 1155 01:10:30,950 --> 01:10:32,920 what they're trying to do is avoid conflict. 1156 01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:34,910 It would be great if they could find a way 1157 01:10:34,910 --> 01:10:37,750 to have relationships with both parents 1158 01:10:37,750 --> 01:10:40,148 and as they grow up be able to explain to both parents, 1159 01:10:40,148 --> 01:10:41,997 "I'm not getting in the middle of this. 1160 01:10:41,997 --> 01:10:44,257 "I'm going to have a relationship with both of you 1161 01:10:44,257 --> 01:10:45,730 "and I don't wanna hear it," basically. 1162 01:10:45,730 --> 01:10:47,890 But, I don't think that all children feel 1163 01:10:47,890 --> 01:10:49,903 that assertive, even as they grow up. 1164 01:11:03,950 --> 01:11:06,640 - [Ginger] After a decade together, Brian's dad, Rick, 1165 01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:09,610 and his step-mom Karyn, divorced. 1166 01:11:09,610 --> 01:11:13,483 Once again, Brian found himself torn between two parents. 1167 01:11:15,380 --> 01:11:20,380 - I believe I was about 22 when Karyn and Rick got divorced. 1168 01:11:20,650 --> 01:11:23,280 For the first few months of the separation 1169 01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:25,637 I would flip flop, be like, "No, my dad's right 1170 01:11:25,637 --> 01:11:26,999 "so I need to stand by his side. 1171 01:11:26,999 --> 01:11:27,832 "I need to be loyal to him." 1172 01:11:27,832 --> 01:11:29,089 And then I'd be like, "Karyn's right. 1173 01:11:29,089 --> 01:11:30,330 "I need to stay by her." 1174 01:11:30,330 --> 01:11:33,250 I think after so many months I realized 1175 01:11:33,250 --> 01:11:36,070 it was just tearing me apart, and that's when I was like 1176 01:11:36,070 --> 01:11:38,723 I'm not gonna deal with their shit. 1177 01:11:39,918 --> 01:11:42,418 (door knocks) 1178 01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:45,203 - Hey baby, how are you? 1179 01:11:48,420 --> 01:11:51,410 - I think that's probably why I was able 1180 01:11:51,410 --> 01:11:53,810 to have that relationship with Caroline as well. 1181 01:11:55,642 --> 01:11:57,620 It's like I can choose this relative, 1182 01:11:57,620 --> 01:12:00,290 what some people call loyalty, or I could choose 1183 01:12:00,290 --> 01:12:03,783 the relative, having my own independent relationships. 1184 01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:10,236 - [Caroline] Guess who that is? 1185 01:12:10,236 --> 01:12:11,840 - I don't now, he's a good-looking kid. 1186 01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:12,673 - Yeah. 1187 01:12:12,673 --> 01:12:13,723 - So, I'm guessing me. 1188 01:12:16,630 --> 01:12:19,070 Now, that we do have a relationship I look to try 1189 01:12:19,070 --> 01:12:21,200 to find some of those good memories, 1190 01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,010 and it's been exceedingly difficult. 1191 01:12:24,010 --> 01:12:27,367 Seeing these, I feel like I don't remember any of 'em. 1192 01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:32,580 - It had nothing to do with you. 1193 01:12:32,580 --> 01:12:35,210 I wanted to get down there and there were times 1194 01:12:35,210 --> 01:12:36,820 where your dad and Karyn would tell me 1195 01:12:36,820 --> 01:12:39,290 that either you didn't want me to come down, 1196 01:12:39,290 --> 01:12:43,140 or you had stuff going on, I wasn't able to force myself 1197 01:12:43,140 --> 01:12:45,240 in there 'cause they wouldn't let me. 1198 01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:48,260 - I think that where I sit as the child, 1199 01:12:48,260 --> 01:12:51,760 I wanted you there to have someone nearby, 1200 01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,853 knowing that I could go there when I was ready to. 1201 01:12:56,592 --> 01:12:58,167 Does that make sense? 1202 01:12:58,167 --> 01:13:03,167 - Yeah, I didn't know that you felt that way. 1203 01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:06,860 I didn't think you wanted me there. 1204 01:13:06,860 --> 01:13:11,153 - I can understand what you're saying and I get it, 1205 01:13:12,300 --> 01:13:13,810 as an adult you have to think about taking care 1206 01:13:13,810 --> 01:13:16,260 of yourself and trying to figure it out and move on. 1207 01:13:16,260 --> 01:13:18,723 It's like, how far do you push? 1208 01:13:24,090 --> 01:13:29,090 - At one point, your step-mom sent me some pictures 1209 01:13:29,140 --> 01:13:31,670 that we had taken with us in it 1210 01:13:31,670 --> 01:13:34,040 and she cut me out of the pictures, 1211 01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:36,550 and sent me the other part back with a note 1212 01:13:36,550 --> 01:13:39,790 that said, "Thought you might want these, K." 1213 01:13:39,790 --> 01:13:43,500 And it destroyed me and it broke my heart, 1214 01:13:43,500 --> 01:13:45,140 and I didn't know what to do. 1215 01:13:49,930 --> 01:13:51,782 - It's not liked I'd cut her out of 'em, 'cause obviously 1216 01:13:51,782 --> 01:13:54,170 in the photo album there's lots of pictures of her. 1217 01:13:54,170 --> 01:13:55,607 The people that I was with were just like, 1218 01:13:55,607 --> 01:13:56,667 "Oh, well just throw 'em away." 1219 01:13:56,667 --> 01:13:58,807 And I was like, "No, that's kinda weird. 1220 01:13:58,807 --> 01:14:01,007 "Like, I'm just gonna send 'em back to her." 1221 01:14:01,910 --> 01:14:05,410 (engaging dramatic music) 1222 01:14:13,050 --> 01:14:14,660 - I've judged you guys. 1223 01:14:14,660 --> 01:14:17,100 I've judged all of you for different actions 1224 01:14:17,100 --> 01:14:22,100 and it's like we still don't always mesh at the same time 1225 01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:25,320 and we have our disagreements, but I learn more 1226 01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:28,620 from those than I do from being alone 1227 01:14:28,620 --> 01:14:32,320 and I don't like that more than having 1228 01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:36,290 to go through it and just forgive and move on. 1229 01:14:36,290 --> 01:14:39,509 - Life right now is just forgiving and moving on? 1230 01:14:39,509 --> 01:14:44,509 - It's so much easier just not dealing with people's shit. 1231 01:14:44,826 --> 01:14:46,253 - Yeah. 1232 01:14:54,500 --> 01:14:57,630 I don't know if I ever had a desire to win, 1233 01:14:57,630 --> 01:15:01,060 because I didn't feel like I ever could, 1234 01:15:01,060 --> 01:15:06,060 but I did have a desire at some point to be right. 1235 01:15:06,570 --> 01:15:09,393 All that stuff doesn't matter anymore. 1236 01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:17,053 What matters is where we're at right now. 1237 01:15:19,759 --> 01:15:22,509 (engaging music) 1238 01:15:46,690 --> 01:15:48,760 I think that was the best thing 1239 01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:51,884 that happened to me in a really long time. 1240 01:15:51,884 --> 01:15:52,717 - Hearing me-- 1241 01:15:52,717 --> 01:15:54,033 - [Caroline] Hearing you call me mom. 1242 01:15:55,367 --> 01:15:58,867 (engaging dramatic music) 1243 01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:15,670 - [Ginger] Why are you trying to talk 1244 01:16:15,670 --> 01:16:19,570 to your brother so much if he's so rude? 1245 01:16:19,570 --> 01:16:22,290 - I'm trying to talk to my brother because 1246 01:16:22,290 --> 01:16:26,000 he's my brother and I miss him, and I love him, 1247 01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,853 and I'm trying to convince him to snap out of it. 1248 01:16:32,480 --> 01:16:37,410 - She feels like her only solution is to try 1249 01:16:37,410 --> 01:16:40,393 and talk to her brother and convince him to come back. 1250 01:16:41,239 --> 01:16:43,739 (clock ticks) 1251 01:16:48,447 --> 01:16:51,077 - "My actions do not put me in the wrong, 1252 01:16:51,077 --> 01:16:54,137 "as your mom has caused me so much trouble over the years. 1253 01:16:54,137 --> 01:16:57,144 "I want a relationship but if you cannot respect 1254 01:16:57,144 --> 01:16:59,597 "that I don't want anything to do with her, 1255 01:16:59,597 --> 01:17:02,650 "then we will have to wait until you're older to talk." 1256 01:17:02,650 --> 01:17:04,060 I said, "It kinda seems like you 1257 01:17:04,060 --> 01:17:05,887 hate mom more than you love me." 1258 01:17:08,016 --> 01:17:11,990 I did have to grow up a bit faster and cope with 1259 01:17:11,990 --> 01:17:15,807 all these big words like alienation. 1260 01:17:15,807 --> 01:17:18,407 "You can tell mom that I now have this conversation 1261 01:17:18,407 --> 01:17:21,287 "of proof that you've been alienated against me. 1262 01:17:21,287 --> 01:17:23,227 "I think I might send this to my lawyer, 1263 01:17:23,227 --> 01:17:26,310 "because I'm not alienated, you are. 1264 01:17:26,310 --> 01:17:29,417 I said, "Why can't we just be normal siblings 1265 01:17:29,417 --> 01:17:31,677 "and talk about normal things, even though 1266 01:17:31,677 --> 01:17:35,296 "we aren't normal why can't we pretend like we are?" 1267 01:17:35,296 --> 01:17:36,424 (engaging dramatic music) 1268 01:17:36,424 --> 01:17:38,924 (clock ticks) 1269 01:18:02,450 --> 01:18:07,450 - I never believed this could be possible, to be here today, 1270 01:18:09,110 --> 01:18:14,110 Ash you don't just live here, today we get to fix the wrong. 1271 01:18:23,940 --> 01:18:28,690 - I forgive that she doesn't care and I've moved on 1272 01:18:28,690 --> 01:18:33,623 from that and I just have no interest on the subject. 1273 01:18:35,510 --> 01:18:37,410 But, it's different when you're a dad. 1274 01:18:41,550 --> 01:18:42,383 - I don't know. 1275 01:18:43,900 --> 01:18:46,670 I have to focus on the daughters that are here, 1276 01:18:46,670 --> 01:18:49,733 that need their dad, that want their dad. 1277 01:18:50,580 --> 01:18:53,313 So, that's where my focus is. 1278 01:18:57,568 --> 01:18:59,477 All right we're off. 1279 01:18:59,477 --> 01:19:02,830 (bright engaging music) 1280 01:19:02,830 --> 01:19:04,940 - [Ashlynn] I'm writing this letter regarding a legal 1281 01:19:04,940 --> 01:19:08,663 adult adoption between by step-mother and my birth father. 1282 01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:11,220 - [Dizzy] My biggest fear here is that 1283 01:19:11,220 --> 01:19:12,890 because I signed my rights away the judge 1284 01:19:12,890 --> 01:19:15,763 is gonna look at this case a little bit differently. 1285 01:19:17,020 --> 01:19:18,700 - My birth mother alienated me 1286 01:19:18,700 --> 01:19:23,293 from my birth father for over a decade. 1287 01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:28,530 - I mean, I'm a father that "voluntarily" 1288 01:19:28,530 --> 01:19:30,000 relinquished my parental rights, 1289 01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:32,342 and now I'm trying to get 'em back. 1290 01:19:32,342 --> 01:19:36,135 (suspenseful music) 1291 01:19:36,135 --> 01:19:37,635 How are you doing? 1292 01:19:41,637 --> 01:19:44,763 - You know what, I am preparing myself for anything, 1293 01:19:46,012 --> 01:19:49,030 because I mean there's an order of protection 1294 01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:50,760 in place right now and that's on my record. 1295 01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:53,713 They run my name, they see an order of protection 1296 01:19:53,713 --> 01:19:54,810 and it's gonna list who it is. 1297 01:19:54,810 --> 01:19:56,260 It's gonna list the children. 1298 01:19:58,660 --> 01:20:03,263 What if the judge says no, I can't even think about that. 1299 01:20:06,247 --> 01:20:09,560 - This adoption is the missing piece in my puzzle, 1300 01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:11,943 not the ending to my story but a new beginning. 1301 01:20:13,900 --> 01:20:16,607 Sincerely, Ashlynn Marie Lerner. 1302 01:20:18,343 --> 01:20:19,603 - [Judge Gibson] Well thanks, so congratulations. 1303 01:20:20,745 --> 01:20:22,995 (cheering) 1304 01:20:28,930 --> 01:20:30,303 - Thank you, your Honor. 1305 01:20:32,670 --> 01:20:34,560 - [Judge Gibson] I'm glad you all got back together. 1306 01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:35,393 - Me too! 1307 01:20:40,170 --> 01:20:41,003 Thank you. 1308 01:20:41,003 --> 01:20:41,970 - Thank you. 1309 01:20:41,970 --> 01:20:43,243 - How bout a picture? 1310 01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:50,310 You know, I do recall this Lerner case. 1311 01:20:50,310 --> 01:20:53,452 I think I may have had him in front of me 1312 01:20:53,452 --> 01:20:55,993 when I was in my family law assignment. 1313 01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:03,603 It was a very emotional adoption. 1314 01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:09,603 - I'm your new daughter. 1315 01:21:11,623 --> 01:21:13,673 - I love you so much. 1316 01:21:24,530 --> 01:21:29,530 - In family law we only address what is in front of us. 1317 01:21:29,660 --> 01:21:32,617 We don't go check up and say, "Hey, how did that work out?" 1318 01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:36,720 We're so busy and there's just no avenue to do that. 1319 01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,950 We expect that if people are having problems then they are 1320 01:21:39,950 --> 01:21:42,450 to bring that issue to court so we can address it. 1321 01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:47,170 - [Ginger] What if getting help to reunite 1322 01:21:47,170 --> 01:21:48,920 with your raised child didn't depend 1323 01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:52,310 on you going back to family court, hiring a lawyer, 1324 01:21:52,310 --> 01:21:55,633 or navigating a complex legal process on your own? 1325 01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:00,040 What if all the resources spent on child support enforcement 1326 01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:03,010 and adversarial court trials were spent on promoting 1327 01:22:03,010 --> 01:22:05,930 shared parenting, affordable mediation, 1328 01:22:05,930 --> 01:22:08,163 and access to mental health services? 1329 01:22:09,930 --> 01:22:14,930 Until then, children like Ashlynn, Lauren, Brian, and Candis 1330 01:22:15,110 --> 01:22:18,203 are reaching out to erased family members on their own. 1331 01:22:19,050 --> 01:22:22,983 With no help or resources, the results can be bittersweet. 1332 01:22:26,750 --> 01:22:28,617 - It's weird when I think about the fact that Ashlynn 1333 01:22:28,617 --> 01:22:31,000 and I don't legally have the same parents, 1334 01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:34,223 but I know she's still my sister. 1335 01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:39,640 - [Ginger] Filming these kids has taught me 1336 01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:43,360 that even a parent isn't perfect and none are, 1337 01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:45,563 erasing a parent does lasting harm. 1338 01:22:46,770 --> 01:22:49,730 We need to stop assigning blame and start helping 1339 01:22:49,730 --> 01:22:52,593 parents to be in their kids' lives. 1340 01:22:53,967 --> 01:22:58,840 - It has been eight months seen I've seen my children. 1341 01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:01,980 It's been over four years since I've been able to hug them, 1342 01:23:01,980 --> 01:23:04,250 hold their hand, or take their picture. 1343 01:23:04,250 --> 01:23:08,150 - I haven't seen my sisters for four and a half years. 1344 01:23:08,150 --> 01:23:11,090 - I haven's seen my daughters for more than five years. 1345 01:23:11,090 --> 01:23:12,317 - I haven't seen her in almost two years. 1346 01:23:12,317 --> 01:23:14,730 - My son here, who's three-years-old 1347 01:23:14,730 --> 01:23:19,150 has not been able to meet his two other siblings, so-- 1348 01:23:19,150 --> 01:23:20,810 - He left me when I was a baby. 1349 01:23:20,810 --> 01:23:23,289 - We wanted to tell you how much we miss you. 1350 01:23:23,289 --> 01:23:25,140 - I want him to know how much his dad loves him. 1351 01:23:25,140 --> 01:23:28,143 - I just wanted to share some of the pain that I felt. 1352 01:23:29,220 --> 01:23:31,290 - I love them and I'm here for them. 1353 01:23:31,290 --> 01:23:32,463 - We were best friends. 1354 01:23:33,689 --> 01:23:36,057 - I want you to come home. 1355 01:23:36,057 --> 01:23:39,023 - And I wanna just see your smile again. 1356 01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:42,790 - And I'm sad to say I'm an erased mommy. 1357 01:23:42,790 --> 01:23:44,003 - I'm an erased dad. 1358 01:23:44,003 --> 01:23:45,920 - I'm an erased sister. 1359 01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:48,979 - And I do believe that one day we will reunite. 1360 01:23:48,979 --> 01:23:52,479 (engaging dramatic music) 1361 01:24:18,982 --> 01:24:22,149 (delicate folk music) 1362 01:24:33,346 --> 01:24:36,723 ♪ I took my time getting off that plane ♪ 1363 01:24:36,723 --> 01:24:41,723 ♪ Thought to myself, is this a good idea or just insane ♪ 1364 01:24:48,067 --> 01:24:52,198 ♪ All this way for a man I've never met ♪ 1365 01:24:52,198 --> 01:24:57,198 ♪ His name ain't even on my birth certificate ♪ 1366 01:24:57,620 --> 01:25:02,534 ♪ He's nervous too, I bet ♪ 1367 01:25:02,534 --> 01:25:07,534 ♪ So much inside me I would like to say ♪ 1368 01:25:08,715 --> 01:25:13,715 ♪ But I'll just say, Hey ♪ 1369 01:25:17,233 --> 01:25:20,727 ♪ Standing in this baggage zone ♪ 1370 01:25:20,727 --> 01:25:24,341 ♪ I couldn't feel any more alone ♪ 1371 01:25:24,341 --> 01:25:27,160 ♪ Is this the way she felt ♪ 1372 01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:31,944 ♪ The last 18 years ♪ 1373 01:25:31,944 --> 01:25:35,342 ♪ Thinking I chose not to be around ♪ 1374 01:25:35,342 --> 01:25:40,342 ♪ I had no idea until she found me ♪ 1375 01:25:41,613 --> 01:25:46,134 ♪ And now she's standing here ♪ 1376 01:25:46,134 --> 01:25:51,134 ♪ I didn't want to let the words get in the way ♪ 1377 01:25:52,700 --> 01:25:57,700 ♪ So I just said, Hey ♪ 1378 01:25:58,366 --> 01:26:01,768 ♪ Hey, I'm glad to finally meet you ♪ 1379 01:26:01,768 --> 01:26:04,969 ♪ Share my story, what I've been through ♪ 1380 01:26:04,969 --> 01:26:09,969 ♪ To find the part of me that I never knew ♪ 1381 01:26:12,719 --> 01:26:16,419 ♪ Time and distance seem so small now ♪ 1382 01:26:16,419 --> 01:26:19,123 ♪ Kinda takes my breath away ♪ 1383 01:26:19,123 --> 01:26:24,123 ♪ How much of me I see when I look at you ♪ 1384 01:26:26,612 --> 01:26:31,612 ♪ A new chapter in my life began today ♪ 1385 01:26:33,044 --> 01:26:38,044 ♪ When you said, Hey ♪ 1386 01:26:42,816 --> 01:26:47,816 ♪ I know that this must be so hard for you ♪ 1387 01:26:49,807 --> 01:26:54,807 ♪ I think it's so brave that you asked me to ♪ 1388 01:26:57,063 --> 01:27:02,063 ♪ I wasn't sure of the right thing to do ♪ 1389 01:27:03,189 --> 01:27:08,189 ♪ Til I heard that little word then I knew ♪ 1390 01:27:11,577 --> 01:27:15,079 ♪ Hey, I'm glad to finally meet you ♪ 1391 01:27:15,079 --> 01:27:18,328 ♪ Share my story what I've been through ♪ 1392 01:27:18,328 --> 01:27:23,328 ♪ To find the part of me that I never knew ♪ 1393 01:27:26,044 --> 01:27:29,475 ♪ Time and distance seem so small now ♪ 1394 01:27:29,475 --> 01:27:32,435 ♪ Kinda takes my breath away ♪ 1395 01:27:32,435 --> 01:27:37,435 ♪ How much of me I see when I look at you ♪ 1396 01:27:39,901 --> 01:27:44,901 ♪ A new chapter in my life began today ♪ 1397 01:27:46,530 --> 01:27:51,530 ♪ When you said, Hey ♪ 1398 01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:59,800 ♪ A new world opened up for me today ♪ 1399 01:28:01,134 --> 01:28:04,217 ♪ When you said, Hey ♪ 107178

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