All language subtitles for Mansons.Bloodline.S01E03.1080p.WEB.H264-CBFM.English

His name has become synonymous
with terror.

In California, five members
of a so-called religious cult,

including Charles Manson...
their guru or high priest,

have been indicted in the murder
of Sharon Tate and six others.

His sadistic murder shocked
the world.

Charles Manson was charged
with controlling

and directing the killers.

I don't have any guilt.
I knew what I'd done.

And now, 50 years later,
he remains the face of evil.

From behind bars, he seeks out
his final victim, his own family.

You've got a prepaid call
from an inmate

at a California state prison,
Corcoran.

Searching for closure from a
criminal who shares the same blood.

My grandfather is Charles Manson

I wish I could bring you
into what I'm doing.

It's hard to look back
and know where you come from.

I did not want my son around that.

I didn't want him to think
that that was in him.

Because that would have
been his blood line.

What's going to happen to me?
Am I going to kill somebody?

Is this in the family tree?
Is this in the genes? In the blood?

I want to face him face to face.
I want to know the answers

because I'm sick of feeling lost.

No matter who he is,
he's still family.

Understanding me
is understanding yourself.

The reality is, it's me.

Previously on Manson's Bloodline...

Jason's ready to go to California.

The thing
that was going through my mind was

he could pass away
while I'm out here.

He won't stop with Manson. He's
going to do what he's going to do.

I don't think a lot of people know

that Manson fought cancer
for many years.

We ain't got much time left. It's
time we get you in there to see him.

Open the doors.

When we pulled up to the front gate,
I was waiting for guns to be pulled.

-Who's your grandfather?
-Charles Manson.

-Charles Manson.
-Yes, sir.

He has to request those people
to be authorized as visitors.

-Did you get my visitation form yet?
-No.

I feel like I'm on a journey.
I just really want to grasp ahold of

what people think from every side
about my grandfather.

This is a rock that has now come
to be known as Charlie's rock.

I'm not saying he's a good guy,
he's a terrible guy. He's both.

Charlie was all about, ATWA,
air, trees, water, animals.

I stand beside ATWA,
there is no reason not to.

There is something wrong with them
people. I just don't like the fact

that Jason is around them.

When Jason started talking to them,
it was almost like

he was being pulled into this whole,
crazy, other world.

Charles Manson, one of the most
notorious murder masterminds

in US history,
has died at the age of 83.

If an inmate dies and they don't
have a will, they throw them away.

Jason said, "Well, I'm next of kin,
and I'm gonna claim the remains."

The County council up in Kern County
did a very good job

of exploring the issues
and the possible claimants.

We need to see
who else might be out there.

If there is a son, his right
would be greater than yours.

There's only one person
generally acknowledged to be

Charles Manson's son alive, which
was my client, Michael Brunner.

THE KIKEN GROUP LAW FIRM

You,
on behalf of yourself as an heir,

might want to challenge
Michael Channel's claim,

or Mr. Roberts claim.

There are one or more
other possible relatives

that could potentially come in also
and make a claim.

I never met Michael Brunner.

What I knew about Michael Brunner...

was that his mom
was Mary Brunner...

and his father was my grandfather,
Charles Manson Sr.

It was 1967, and the summer of love
when Mary Brunner

and Charlie Manson
had their own summer of love

and Mary got pregnant.

He was the first child of the first
family member with Charles Manson.

Charles certainly believed
that Michael was his child.

He didn't referred to him as Michael.

He referred to him as Sonstone,
S-O-N-S-T-O-N-E, Sonstone.

She was the first woman
in the Manson family,

and was instrumental
in helping Charlie

I think recruit other young women.

And Charles certainly believed
that Michael is his child.

He's never denied paternity.

We had a strong factual case,
because Mike was a natural child.

We had a birth certificate
showing Charlie as his father.

He had grown up in the home.

The only child really that can say
they grew up with Charlie,

in the family until Charlie's arrest
and subsequent sentencing to death.

Mike eventually went to live
with his grandparents.

They felt it would be best for him
to have a legal mother and father

and maybe wipe away the stain of
having Charles Manson as his father.

As a result, he was adopted
by them and raised by them.

We didn't see Michael Brunner
in the picture whatsoever.

He never made contact
with me whatsoever,

before my grandfather passed.

I thought my father, Jay White,

might have been the only son
Charles Manson had.

So at this point in time, based on
what we've heard from the Coroner,

we're going to move forward
to get a process ready

so that if we're successful
on your behalf,

and the remains are to go to you,
that your wishes will be carried out

and be ready to be carried
out right away.

If that doesn't happen and it doesn't
go the direction you want it to go,

we'll have to see what the basis is
of that decision

and decide whether we're gonna take
any action.

So, we'll be in touch with you
in the coming days.

The County Council up
in Kern County did a very good job

of exploring the issues
and the possible claimants,

and they put together a list
that we ended up following

in whatever we'd done.

So, they identified the players.

They were Matthew Lentz,
Michael Channels, with the will,

and Michael Brunner,

who actually became very active
in that proceeding.

Matthew Lentz filed paperwork
in the Los Angeles County proceeding

and he had a number of notes
that indicated that there were things

he needed to do
in order to fix this petition.

He never fixed his petition.

The court gave him the opportunity to
fix his petition a number of times.

And, ultimately,
at one of the hearings, said,

I want you to give notice
to Mr. Lentz

that if he doesn't fix it
by the next hearing,

his petition will be denied.
And that's what occurred.

We also had
Michael Channels' purported will,

which said, I give you everything
and that was pretty much it.

I don't think my grandfather
would have wrote a will

that would give entirely everything
that he's ever produced

over to a guy
that was only a pen pal.

I knew a lot of people were selling
things, out on the Internet.

You know in my view from coming to
understand Michael Channels,

that was exactly
what was going to happen.

They were going
to sell as much as they could

until they run out of my grandfather.

Michael Channel talked about
cutting tattoos off of his body.

I mean, I could see that happening,
I took it personal.

Murderbilia is a business
where people befriend murderers,

many of whom are on death row,
but are in prison

and try to get items from them

because there is a cult
following of people

who are fascinated with murders
and murderers

and anything associated with them,
and pay money to get the items.

So they were murderbilia dealers.

All this stuff found me.
I've been collecting for years.

I started seeking it out and writing
people and getting things.

After a while people realized
that you collect this kind of thing,

and it just starts finding you.
It's bizarre.

I had explored to explore murderbilia
scene,

so I could see what it was about.

I went to visit a gentleman
who was interested

in doing a blood painting
of my grandfather.

-This is a pretty nice setup.
-Thank you. Thank you.

It's like every wall
there's something new, so.

I'm a big fan of the weird, strange,
unusual, infamous

and anything that turns the eye.

So you got some of
my grandfather's stuff I hear also.

I do.
The stuff I have of your grandfather,

Charles Manson,
that's just a small taste of it.

So I have some paintings
and all kinds of crazy stuff.

There's so much
Charles Manson stuff out there,

I mean,
your grandfather made an impact.

He was a complex guy
and he was a showman.

That's what I liked about him.

I mean, I initially got a hold of him
because of the infamy,

and after talking to him, I saw
a little deeper into the whole thing.

I would absolutely be honored
if Jason would contribute to this.

The reason being is
it means a lot to me

to have the grandson
of Charles Manson

contribute his blood
to these paintings,

because the DNA is in there.

I actually did my first blood
painting of Charles Manson

a couple of years ago
and sent him copies of it.

I like to paint and the idea
is to create a future relic.

I'm not really a dealer.
I'll trade once in a while.

Once in a great while I'll sell
something, but I'm a collector.

I don't know, I have a compulsion
to have this stuff around me.

Its' not all, you know,
serial killers that I paint.

I paint anything I find fascinating.

I just think that, you know,
you have a choice at a certain point,

whether to sort of embrace
the dark side.

And it doesn't get much darker
than Charlie Manson

in terms of the bad vibe, the dark
karma that he's gonna generate.

And to say, yeah,
I want some of that shit,

it's like someone
who embraces heroin.

I don't know if I do agree with that.

I think it's all exploitation.

And I'm exploiting things
that I'm fascinated with

and if other people happen to be,
that's great

because I'm glad if people enjoy,
or get pissed off, by my art.

I don't mind provoking.

After I left
I had to go back to get a book...

his girlfriend grabbed my arm
and she started looking at me

and she was like,
oh, I wish I could take your blood

and she's looking at my veins and I'm
just thinking, leave it alone.

After seeing what was in there,
it's not my cup of tea.

You can't have my blood,
my anything, man. I was out.

I mean, really?

I mean, do your thing,
whatever you want to do,

but it's not going to be with
anything from my husband

or my family.

I don't know. People will do anything
to make a buck.

Memorabilia, collectors,

ghoulish types from the world over

are seeking to get a hold of
the remains and dissect and sell,

God knows fingernails
or whatever, teeth.

I mean,
you may not have been close,

but I think that would make any of us
recoil in some degree of horror.

And I think it made Michael Brunner
recoil in horror.

His interest was in securing
a dignified end

to an undignified life.

He felt,
in that regard, that it was his duty

to do something
for his biological father.

As far as Michael Channel's will
was concerned

the document that I saw
had a lot of parts of it blacked out.

It appeared to be a somewhat
incoherent document.

But from what I could make out,
it looked as though

it was a document that Mr. Channel's
himself may have been a witness to,

under California law.

Two witnesses would have
to sign and date

and give their contact information
on the will itself.

In this case, it appeared that

at least one of the witnesses
was an interested party

and that creates that presumption
that it's not a valid will.

I got news from my attorney Dale,

that it was only down to one person
for the custody of my grandfather.

And that was Michael Brunner.

We had a strong, factual case,
because Mike was a natural child.

I think it's great
that I have an uncle out there.

I'd love to meet him.

I would love to meet him on terms
that aren't so rough. You know?

I didn't even know Michael Brunner,
I didn't know him,

I didn't know him before this
happened and I don't know him now.

But the opportunities are still there
for us to have a bond.

I'm just going to say it,
I mean, when I...

Towards the end,
when I asked him about Brunner,

do you think he's yours?

He said, "Man, who knows, man?
We were all fucking back then.

Everyone was fucking everyone,

How the fuck am I supposed
to know that's my kid?

But I'll tell you what, I raised him,
I took him out of her,

I threw him up in the air to take the
fear out of him, I loved that kid."

And it became this legal battle,
like, that I never foresaw coming.

I know Charlie didn't either.

My name is Jason Freeman and I'm...

here to claim my grandfather.

You know when he made that claim
and went out there

and was in front of the courthouse

and it was pretty...
that was I mean business, you know?

I'm gonna finish out what I started.

Family comes first.

What kind of a relationship
did you have?

I just want to get to know
my grandfather.

And he tells me, "I don't know
how to be a grandfather.

I don't know how to be a father.

The only father I have, the only
grandfather's I have

are these prison guards."

And I know that's all he understands,
I know that's what he...

That's all he knows,
because that's where he was at.

All his life, even as a child.

I personally wanted
to gift my grandfather

a chance to understand his grandson

and his great grandkids
before he passed.

And I did that for him.

This is life. This is the end
of the life of someone I loved,

I've spent over 17 years getting
to know somebody

that I developed a relationship
with that I didn't see coming.

I didn't foresee
the man behind that mask, bro.

He was an incredible human being.
You know?

And he very rarely let people see
underneath that mask.

-Very few people.
-Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And I will admit he died...

I'm going to say protecting you,
because he didn't want to let you in,

because he didn't want you
or your family tainted.

I noticed whenever your grandfather
got close to love

or someone telling him, whenever I
would tell him I loved him,

he'd say,
"Man, you've got to stop it.

You making me feel like a schoolgirl,
man! What are you? You love me?"

-He would push you away.
-Yeah.

-He would lash out at you.
-He would degrade you...

He would degrade you, humiliate you.

And I'm smart enough to know that
that's a shield for him, you know.

It wasn't until the end of his life
that he began to repeat it.

And that's how
I knew that was the mask.

I mean, it's just such a drama scene
with that guy, and I don't know.

He just thrives on it. It's...

I don't know what his infatuation is
with Charles Manson,

but there's something not right
because there's more to life,

and now he's dead. So now what?

I don't know what his...
I don't know.

We still haven't come to complete
honest terms with myself

on full acceptance that
he's a murderer and a serial killer.

I had to get a reality check.

I wanted to meet somebody
who was part of the Manson family

that lived at Sphan Ranch.

Hi, ma'am.

I had to go to the core of it

and I needed to hear from one
of the Manson family members.

And that was Dianne Lake.

I never heard about you
until, you know, it was in the news.

I was just curious what it was like
spending time with my grandfather

before and then after the murders.

I was there
pretty much the whole time.

He just had this,
you know, this way about him.

For me, it's been 50 years

so time softens,
you know, the memories.

But there's good memories
and there's bad memories.

Yeah.

I think that part of the hold that he
had on me and each all the girls

is that he had this uncanny way

of making each one of us feel like
we were his favorite. You know?

We were the most loved.
And maybe he was protecting me.

I still have that same question
with me.

Was he protecting me
or was he pushing me away?

Well, he had this really
uncanny ability to read people.

And it was probably
a blessing and a curse,

but he has an ability to read people

and determine
what their weaknesses were

and what they needed
and he could provide it,

or make you feel like he was
providing that love or that security

or that, you know...
made you feel worthy and special.

And he had, you know, he...

You know, I was disciplined,
you know, when I acted out

or, you know, when I didn't,
you know, keep my focus on him.

I got hit, you know, I got whipped,
you know, a few times.

There's a lot of questions,
in my own mind,

if he's innocent, if he's guilty.

What he's guilty of,
where the truth lays at,

because I know it doesn't lay
at the court house.

I don't believe that.

Right. But I think
that he was definitely instrumental

in creating this maelstrom,
you know, that happened.

I think it was his delusion and he
got other people to believe in it.

-Feed into that same delusion?
-Yeah. Illusion, delusion.

He was the one that promoted this,

this idea about
this black-white race war

that was gonna happen and he was
the instigator for preparing it,

but other people
were climbing on board.

He wanted these murders
to be blamed on blacks

so that whites would start

indiscriminately start
killing blacks.

But Manson felt that the blacks
would end up

killing all of the whites,
except for Manson and the family.

And innocent people were murdered
for the reason

that Manson and the family
wanted to start a race war.

I mean, that's about the basest modi
that you could possibly dream up.

These people really embraced

and enfolded his delusion

and that was about
helter skelter was real,

and that at some point it was
their responsibility to start it

because it wasn't happening.

The spring of 1969
Manson was getting frustrated

because he thought that the blacks
were going to start the revolution.

And he said in May,

"The only thing that blackie knows is
what whitie shows them.

So someone's gonna have
to show blackie how to do it."

And then in June, he said,

"We're gonna have to show blackie
how to do it."

And on Friday August 8th,

Manson had been up
in Big Sur and he came back

and said,
"Now is the time for helter skelter."

Well, now was the time for murder
and bloodshed to begin.

And I had this epiphany
a couple of months ago that...

Because one of my big questions has
always been, how could these people,

these people that I loved
and, you know, was close to,

how could they have actually,
you know, killed people, right?

Physically, when the rubber meets
the road, how can they do that?

Sharon Tate
had had some friends over for lunch.

There was talk of having a party
at the house that night

but she decided she wanted to have
a quiet night with her friends.

So she and Jay Sebring, Wojciech
Frykowski and Abigail Folger

went to have dinner
at a nearby Mexican restaurant

and they came back for the night
right around ten o'clock.

The three women
approached the house,

Watson told Kzabien
to look around the house

to find out if there were
any open doors or windows.

She did that, didn't find anything.

But when she came back, she saw
Watson at a dining room window

and he had cut the screen and
opened the window and climbed in.

When they got into the living room,

Jay Sebring, who was a longtime
friend of Sharon's,

Watson was having Sharon sit
on the floor and Sebring said,

"No, she's eight and a half months
pregnant. Let her sit on the sofa."

And Watson, with his revolver,
with the gun butt

smashed Sebring in the face,
shot him and stabbed him.

That basically killed Sebring.

I mean, it's one thing
in your head to talk about,

are you willing to die for me?
Are you willing to kill for me?

-Are you willing to kill in order...
-Those are things he was saying?

Yes, exactly.

Krenwinkle chased Abigail Folger
out of the back of the house

and fortunately on the way,

left her fingerprint
inside next to the back door.

And she chased Folger
with an upraised knife

and caught her in the front yard
and proceeded to stab her.

Frykowski tried to run out
of the front of the house,

Atkins stabbed him
in the leg a number of times.

And he got out and Watson
tackled him in the front yard,

and stabbed him and shot him.

He ended up being stabbed 51 times,

and hit over the head
with a gun butt 13 times,

so hard that the grip
on the gun butt broke.

When Watson was finished
with Frykowski,

he went over and helped polish off
Abigail Folger.

But to me, it was a mind game.

It's like, no, he didn't really want
us to kill. We had to be...

I mean, it's really hard to explain,
but we had to be willing to kill

in order to not have to
or to not be killed ourselves.

That was... 'cause he was always
playing mind games.

Watson, with his rope he brought

he knew that there were beams
going across the living room ceiling.

And he threw the rope
over the ceiling beam

and tied one end
around Jay Sebring's neck,

Jay who was already dead,

and the other around
Sharon Tate's neck

and the coroner said that when
Watson hung her from the beam

that she was still alive.

Charles Manson, your grandfather...

descended into a psychotic,
I think, delusion

that made him increasing and his
name, man, son, increasingly...

made him feel like he was...

Christ, you know,
and the second coming.

And that he had a mission.

He told his family members
that he was Jesus Christ

and he would recreate on the cross

how it felt when they were driving
the nails in his hands and his feet.

And he said the first time he came
to Earth, he came as Jesus Christ

and he got crucified, so this time
he was coming as the devil.

He didn't have anybody saying,
no, you're wrong, you know.

That's impossible.
You know, this isn't going to happen.

And a struggle, and I'm sure it's
been a huge struggle,

as it was for me,
and still is in revealing that.

Fortunately, I hope you have some of
the same experience that I've had

since I came out about my story.

And it's been 99.9% positive.

People say, good for you,
how brave to tell your story.

I was so thankful
now it helps us understand

how this cult,

how this man came to be,
you know, the icon of evil.

Dianne's story
was like a three-piece combination

that put me on the ground.

Now I'm so glad to have met you.
And shared our stories.

Yeah.

She was pretty open
with explaining to me

that my grandfather was the
mastermind behind all the murders.

DENNISON, OHIO

I turned to Dode Overton.

He was a pastor from
a local church in our area.

When my dad passed away,
he was there.

Now my grandfather passed away

and I wanted to make sure
he was there.

I'm not looking at the forest,
I'm looking at that one tree

and I know I need people around me

that can see in front of me
and on the side.

And he always had the right answers
at the right time.

When I first met Jason
he was like, say, a rough character.

After he was coming
to the church for a while,

I got to know him better.
He was still fighting at that time.

There are those things
that happen in our lives

that we can repent of and turn from
and walk away from.

Which I believe Jason did that

and that's why he's living
the life he is today.

So, how do you feel spiritually?
How do you release that hatred

and all that anger that's against you
for something you didn't really do?

Well, the first thing,
I can say that...

for weeks and months you know,
it's been a roller coaster.

It's like where do I put my time,
and my focus, my energy?

We've got some things out of the way
and we're in court now.

And I know I could feel
the spiritual battle going on.

It's around me, it's not...
It is within you also,

but you still got to make that choice
not to serve the devil so...

I know there's times in this past
year, where I've reached out to you,

you know, to say hi
and just asked for some advice.

But I don't know if you really...

You know grasped
or if I even told you, you know,

what I've been dealing with,
you know, in this past year.

I imagine a lot. You got it coming
at you from all angles.

He's not accountable for that.

He's not accountable
for anything his grandfather did.

And I don't believe he has to make
penance or anything like that.

We can't pray him out of hell.

We can't pay for him
to get out of hell.

That's just the fact
of the scripture.

There's a lot of people out there
that I would imagine,

just 'cause I know what the world
thinks that this is all a big game.

That you somehow manipulated this
whole thing so that you can get rich.

How do you deal with that?

Well, that's exactly what...

Probably 60% of the world,
or society probably thinks, you know?

We've got to stay focused on God
and just not drop the ball.

The world would say,
and you just answered that,

that the whole reason
you're doing this

is to put money
in Jason Freeman's pocket.

When we talked, I don't know,
a couple of weeks ago,

I think we talked on the phone,

and you said anything that you gained
was for kingdom purpose.

Yeah,
my purpose in life is to give back.

God has laid it on my heart
that that's my job.

When I was praying for you, I was
getting this attack thing going on,

was concerned about you
and your life

and how you were dealing with that,

because I know
it's a lot of pressure.

It's different pressure
than I've ever felt before

but I do know
that God's been preparing me.

Like, for instance,
I've got a couple of groups of people

that just hammer down on me,
on the Internet.

And I can't sit there
and say bad things about them,

I don't even know them. I don't...

If this is what they choose to do,
that's their choice.

I choose to,
you know, turn the other cheek.

I know there's times I do get
frustrated. I fought all my life.

Now I understand
it's a spiritual battle,

It's not that physical battle.

You're starting to get a hold
of that scripture says

"We wrestle not against flesh
and blood...

but against principalities and powers

and rulers of the darkness
of this world."

-That's your fate now.
-It is.

You're out of the cage
and you're in the big ring, right?

-Yeah.
-Yeah. Well, I hope you win it.

One more thing for you tonight. It is
the resolution of the absurd fight

over what to do
with Charles Manson's remains.

COUNTY OF KERN
CIVIC CENTER JUSTICE BUILDING

In the course of the proceedings
in Kern County, in open court,

Michael Kern's attorney
acknowledged,

when pressed by the court,

that they did not have
the original birth certificate

identifying his client
as being Charles Manson's son

because when you get adopted,

you can't get the original
birth certificate anymore.

And that was the end
of that part of the case.

The judge could have gone either way
on that and that's the thing.

The judge has to make a decision,

That was the one she made.
We made our best...

We made our best case.

It became clear to the court
that in, what we call,

an exurgent circumstance,
or emergency circumstance,

which is what to do with the body,

that the court could clearly
find that Jason was the next of kin

and give him the remains.

I was at my boy's baseball game.

And I got the phone call
from a lady from CNN and she says,

"So how does it feel to have won
custody of Charles Manson?

I was lost for words,
I didn't know what to think.

I'd already been going through
this battle for months and...

She was the first person to say,
hey, hey, you know, you won.

The notorious murderer
died four months ago.

There were four different parties
jockeying to get custody of his body.

A California judge decided
that the cult leaders remains

will go to his grandson, who says
that he plans a cremation.

And here's the weird part. He also
wants to invite the other people

who were trying to get that carcass

because,
"He wouldn't want them to miss out."

When it hit me,
like it hit me like a ton of bricks.

You're receiving
Charlie Manson's body.

It's not just your grandfather.

You're going to be taking on
more than just your average funeral,

cremation, spreading of the ashes.

Once this came to a point
where there were choices,

there were three choices and he was
the lesser of the three evils.

Because the other two choices
were not choices at all.

They were totally based
on lies and falsehood.

I think you look at Jason
and you think,

maybe one inclination would be,
well, he's out for publicity maybe.

He's trying to make some money.
All of those things are possible.

And being a newspaper reporter,

I would have
that skepticism naturally.

But I do think that
there was a genuine connection

as it related to family.

Not in the Manson family sense,
but in a family sense.

I can see
how this is torturing Jason.

And I see the public attacks on him.

And this dark hole
that you get sucked into,

it's like a rabbit hole
that once you go down,

you get so lost,
you can barely find your way back

and I feel responsible for that,
in a way.

There's a lot of people that are
mad out there, that are frustrated.

They don't know
where you come from.

It looks like you just come out
of the woodwork

and you're out to bank
on your grandfather's estate,

his name and everything
that that comes with Charles Manson.

Once I got the body, everybody
started calling me, even the media.

I got this local reporter.

He threw my name in an article
and he stuck my address in there.

And I got people,
I mean, I don't know...

I got people driving
by my house looking at me,

and some people are waving
and I'm like, I don't know you.

So I got a security system now in
my house, I got a bigger dog.

You know, it's his choice, you know?

It's something that he feels
that he needs to settle in his life

and I'm all for it, you know.

Who knows I wouldn't be
the same way if it was my situation?

You just need to stay focused
to where you want to be with it,

that's where it's going to end up
in the end anyway.

Stay focused, keep your chin up,
keep moving on life

like you always have, you know?

Ain't the first time
you've faced stuff like this.

Think about it,
could you or anyone else imagine

being Charles Manson's grandson?

And how would
the average person survive that?

How would the average person
get through life knowing that?

Would they be strong
or would they be weak?

Would it tear them down and make
them continue to do bad thing?

Or, you know, that's my family
so this is who I'm supposed to be.

I'm not supposed to do good things,
so who cares if I get in trouble?

But he's really overcome that

and I just think
that's why he embraces this.

I'm sure he's at great risk

for associating himself
with Charles Manson

because people are people,
people hold grudges

and, of course, you're at risk
when you voice your opinion.

So he's at risk that way.

I believe that he's not afraid,
he's never been a guy of fear.

So here I am,
I've got Charles Manson's body.

I've got my grandfather's body.

Now I have to go to California
with my wife

and I have to go through the process
of claiming it.

And everything was actually coming
to a point now, so it was emotional

but I knew
there was a lot of work ahead of me,

and we just kept moving forward.

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA

THE KIKEN GROUP LAW FIRM

Dale, you and I both talked extently
on where the remains could end up

The last thing I want to do is see
my grandfather's ashes on eBay

or things
that he owned just being sold off.

That and I think I've mentioned
to you a number of times,

my concern that having his ashes
in a place

where they might be identified

might actually put you
or your family at risk,

so I think that's a very big concern.

So, my major concern
in that event,

if it's known in fact
that you have the ashes

or people believe you have the ashes,

someone may actually be motivated
to break into your house,

might cause you or your family harm

in order to steal those things
from you.

So my own personal suggestion
would be,

if it's your intent to have him
cremated, to scatter his ashes

in a manner in which the public will
know that they've been scattered.

That they know they don't remain
and it won't put you at risk

and it also bring some finality

to the time on earth
of your grandfather.

Ultimately, there will be
an inventory and appraisal

where we identify
whatever monetary assets he has,

and I understand he may have
more monetary assets

than we might otherwise anticipate.

But he also has, as I understand it,

an extensive collection of art
that he himself created

that still should be stored
at the prison.

He also has intellectual property
rights that relate to music.

Likely his person in the media
may be an intellectual property right

that will be controlled by the estate
and ultimately by the heirs.

Yeah, I noted that in the recent news

there was an art piece that was sold,

I think, in Great Britain
for $10 million.

that was purportedly inspired by
"Helter Skelter."

So if there is actually an art piece
by your grandfather,

it might be in that range,
we don't know.

Now that he's passed,

there won't be any future art pieces
that he creates,

so it's a limited collection
of assets

that may make them
of even more value.

I knew the first task
was actually getting my grandfather

from Kern County
to the funeral home.

Jason had been in touch
with my nephew

who owns a funeral home in Shafta

which is very near the facility
that Charles Manson passed away in.

They were looking
for a local funeral home

and my nephew just couldn't provide
the type of facilities

that Jason was asking for,
so he recommended me.

And Jason contacted me
and we got involved that way.

What happened
on a Thursday afternoon

when I received a phone call
from Les Peters,

who is the owner
of the Porterville Funeral home

and that's not unusual because he'll
call me when in need of a pastor.

He called me and said he had
somewhat an unusual situation

and if I would be available
to do a service.

And so, then he shared
that it was for Charles Manson.

I was living in Southern California

when those atrocious events
took place,

and like so many others,
in shock as I followed the news.

And so, I mean,
that was a part of my early years.

And so, yeah, thinking about
that terrible moment in history

and now the reality of this person
having a funeral service.

Then he shared
that he was going to be meeting

with Charles Manson's grandson,
Jason.

As part of the conversation he said,

"Jason's a believer.
He's a Christian."

A couple things went through my
mind.

I said well, number one I'm a pastor

so I'm always involved in doing
services for whoever it may be.

But then also to know I could be
supporting someone

who was of the faith,
I wanted to be available for that.

Over the years I served many people

who were in prison
and did heinous crimes.

And we've never judged them,
we're here for the families.

When they request us,
we just go ahead and service them.

BAKERSFIELD

Well, it was a very long day. We went
to pick him up at eight o'clock

as early as the Coroner's office
opened, like we would normally do.

And we had our releases in order,

and so silly me, I just thought
it would be business as usual.

But when I showed up
at the Coroner's office,

I was told to sit out
in the waiting room

and I waited there for quite a while.

Someone came out and told me
that, well, they weren't,

they didn't want to release him yet,

and that we didn't have
the proper releases.

And so it was kind
of a run around for a while.

And I'm not sure what was going on
at the Coroner's office,

why they didn't want to treat it
as they normally would,

but I was trying to.

I was anticipating that the remains
would be in the freezing area

and I've been in the Coroner's office
many times,

and you turn right,
you go to the refrigerated section,

you turn left, you go to the area
where they hold remains in frozen.

And that's what I anticipated to do.
And that's not what the case was.

We are required by California law,
and basically it's the Federal law,

that when we take remains
into our care

that they be placed in
a refrigerated area.

And that's, of course,
what happened to Mr. Manson.

But that's not something
you would do for three months,

which is what happened here.

And so that, that really created
a lot of difficulties for me

on the technical side
of preparing his remains.

The largest problem I had was that...

just like if you were in a bathtub,
you all know what happens.

You're in a bathtub
for an extended period of time,

your fingers start to wrinkle up
from the water, and everything.

There were some fluids in the bottom
of the bag that he was in,

even though they had some type
of an absorbent cloth.

But that many months,
that's what I was dealing with.

To the point that it was...

it was just beyond repair.

I'm always very careful
when I talk to people

about remains and condition
and I don't want to be macabre,

always want to respect
everyone's dignity,

and I'm not sure
I want to go too much

into the condition
of Mr. Manson's remains

just out of respect
that I would have for anyone.

As soon as Les give me a call,
to be honest,

I immediately went on the Internet
search for a Jason Freeman

to find out a little bit
about his background.

And it gave me a chance
to read up a little bit on Jason

and give me a little bit
of his background

and that made all the difference
in the world to me

because Jason's a believer,
he's a Christian

And I felt like there was someone

whom I truly could stand with
and support.

Jason had already put in
a considerable amount of time

in trying to put together
the facility

to be able to handle the remains.

When the time came,
he was ready to proceed.

I was contacted Thursday
by the funeral home,

with the understanding
we would be meeting

with the family members involved
on Friday.

Once I made contact
with Gray Wolf and George,

I knew that whoever
they wanted to have there,

I wanted to give them
an open invitation

to share that with the people

that they know that I don't know
that knew my grandfather

so they all could have
the opportunity

to share this time together.

I have a feeling there's going to be
a lot more that show up.

Do we have a plan for security?

Or, like, we need to think about that
because you know that somehow

somebody's going to know
what's happening where.

So not everybody
that shows up is getting in,

That's gonna have to be
very selective

so it's important to have
security in place.

Yeah,
I think security has to be priority.

Jason has done all of the work,

Jason and his family have been
through the ringer

with learning about Charlie,
with learning about Jay,

going through all these emotions.

There hasn't been one single one
of these people

who've contributed to anything.

They're just another character
that followed Charlie

and that's... crazy.

Subtitles: Philip Macdonald
www.sdimedia.com