Original subtitles

His name has become synonymous with terror.

In California, five members of a so-called religious cult,

including Charles Manson... the guru or high priest,

have been indicted in the murder of Sharon Tate and six others.

His sadistic murder shocked the world.

Charles Manson was charged with controlling

and directing the killers.

I don't have any guilt. I knew what I'd done.

And now, 50 years later, he remains the face of evil.

Helter Skelter.

From behind bars, he seeks out his final victim, his own family.

You've got a prepaid call from

an inmate at a California state prison, Corcoran.

Searching for closure from a criminal who shares the same blood.

My grandfather is Charles Manson.

I wish I could bring you into what I'm doing.

It's hard to look back and know where you come from.

I did not want my son around that.

I didn't want him to think that that was in him.

'cause that would have been his blood line.

What's going to happen to me? Am I going to kill somebody?

Is this in the family tree? Is this in the genes? In the blood?

I want to face him face to face. I want to know the answers

because I'm sick of feeling lost.

No matter who he is, he's still family.

Understanding me is understanding yourself.

The reality is, it's me.

Previously on Manson's Bloodline...

Today, the judge formally passed sentence

on Charles Manson and his girls for seven senseless murders.

I couldn't imagine what it's like to be related to Charles Manson.

On one side, he's family and I want to get to know him,

on the other hand, I hate him.

How do you go through life with that name?

I'll get phone calls out of the blue

and they'll tell me they just want to kill me, they know where I live.

The more he talked about Manson. I didn't want him around you.

Mom said, that she got a call from Grandma Rosie

and said that my father pulled to the side of the road and shot himself.

I was still angry about my father's death

and I was pointing that finger right at him.

When Jason was interacting with Charles, I didn't like it at all.

-Did you do what I asked you? -Not yet.

You're incompetent and brain dead.

Here's my buddy who chased this, and trying to get some answers,

and this is the conversation that he gets with his grandfather.

CNN was working with Matthew Roberts Lintz...

And he claims to be a son of Manson.

You do not share a common biological ancestry.

Everything has a ripple effect.

A buddy called and said, "You need to turn on this news channel, quick."

Manson called a night or two later

and I said, your real grandson, Junior's kid. Junior had a kid.

I can't look at him as just being evil.

Cult leader Charles Manson has been moved from prison to a hospital.

I thought this guy can't last much longer.

Jason's ready to go to California.

The major things is preventing Jason from seeing Charlie is,

Jason's not on the approved list at the prison.

Jason is that last bit of normalcy in Charlie's life.

I believe that the first time I see my grandfather

could possibly be the last time I see my grandfather.

BAKERSFIELD, CALIFORNIA

OBJECT IN MIRROR ARE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR

The thing that was going through my mind coming out here

was he could pass away while I'm out here.

The way most people are going to look at it, is,

you know, why would you take your time to go see Charles Manson?

But in my life and in my world, it's way different than that.

I was there for my grandmother, I was there for my father,

I was there for my dad. I was at their death bed.

He won't stop with Manson, he's going to do what he's going to do.

And I can't stop him.

If my husband was alive today, there wouldn't be none of this.

Because he just flat out said no.

Hey, Mom, I just wanted to call you and just tell you how much I love you

and how thankful I am that you're so supportive with me

you know, with everything that I'm doing.

Well, Jason, I wasn't and then...

...you know, I thought about it and I thought, well, he is an old man.

I just didn't want him...

...trying to twist your mind or...

...because I know the things he says on TV are off the wall.

I just didn't want you involved in that.

But you're a grown man and he's an old man...

...and I don't see the harm anymore.

Well, I think if you do get to see him, and I hope you do.

And for his sake, I hope he gets to see you.

And I hope you have a good visit.

That it will put some closure on a lot of this.

I got to go, Mama.

I got to go, I'll talk to you soon.

-Okay, love you. -I love you too.

Bye.

I had fought with Jason over all of this for a long, long time.

So, I finally just gave up.

There's something wrong with them people.

And I just didn't like the fact that Jason is around them.

I'm just going to stand up here so I can be eye to eye with you.

J.J., John Michael Jones, has been a friend

of my grandfather's for 15 plus years

and he shared with me how he really truly loved my grandfather.

And it was moving for me, it opened me up to think,

maybe there is a different side of Charles Manson.

Right now is the time because it's coming to the end.

-This is it. -We ain't got much time left.

So, I say it's time we go get justice

and that's getting you in there to see him.

Talking with Jason on the phone was one thing

but when I actually met Jason and Manson's the same way in a sense.

When he looks in your eye,

he can call bullshit from a mile away.

So who better to have fighting for, for his grandfather?

-Rock on. -All right, let's do it, brother.

I think it was important to have J.J. going to the prison with me

because he shared a lot of information

with my grandfather, back and forth,

and I knew that he research that he's done working with the prison system,

that he had an edge above me. So that would work on my side.

And for me if I could just get Jason in front of Charlie,

I knew in my heart that Charlie would have just loved him.

Trying to get to understand the medical end of being in prison.

Who was on his list, who was on his medical

to receive information or ask information.

And I couldn't get a straight answer from anybody.

This right here says,

"Sometimes emergencies or hardship visits are allowed."

In the handbook for Corcoran California prison.

It states, if you have a family member in prison, that is deathly ill

that you don't have to go through all the procedures

that they just have to okay it.

-Open the door. Open them up. -It says right there, look...

unexpected visitor. Bang.

-This came right off their website. -Yeah, yeah.

-CDC... Be prepared. -They told me on the phone.

Your grandfather has a whole new set of rules that apply to him.

But I'm telling you...

The injustice of this case. Not just the legal part of it,

but just from a prison aspect,

I mean justice as far as giving him his mail,

stop creating rules that, you know,

anything Manson wanted, there was a rule he couldn't have it.

I mean, they have a room full of his stuff there now.

Guitars and things that meant a lot to him that they just confiscate.

"Deem it contraband."

Understand something, your grandpa was raised up in the prison system.

He was raised by the likes of Alvin Karpis,

Frank Costello, Frankie Carbo, Mickey Cohen.

These are gangsters that your grandfather was raised up with.

-Are you listening? -Yep.

All right. Alcatraz, there was a guy in there called Alvin Karpis.

-He was from Spain. -Okay.

He was like one of my fathers.

He taught me a little bit on the guitar

and he gave me wisdom.

Your grandfather has been in prison so long,

his mentality is that of a big tough guy.

He's going to be, "I don't need you to protect me."

He's going to play that tough guy role.

Don't get me wrong, that's just his way of life.

But behind the scenes,

when that Manson mask comes off and the cameras aren't rolling

and he knows you're not recording his phone call,

he'll tell you, like he said to me, "I need someone here.

I need someone to let this prison know

they can't just do what they want with me."

He wanted me to move out to California.

I said, "Man, you know as well as I do I've got three kids and a wife."

He's like, "I know, man, but I got everything you need.

I've got a place for you to stay,

all the money up here, everything you need is right here, you know?"

And what did you say?

I said, "I don't want nothing."

Good. Because that might have been a test.

I remember my first visit, visiting Manson he told me...

"If you know what's good for you, you'll turn,

and run and get as fucking far away from me as you can."

And I laughed and I noticed that he wasn't laughing.

I don't think a lot of people know

that Manson fought cancer for many years.

Charlie was told he didn't have long to live, many times.

You need to let him know that you want to be there for him.

I don't want anything from you other than a relationship with my grandpa.

And he's so used to being used up, since a little boy.

He told me a story about sitting at a window

for two years at a boys' home.

He didn't commit no crime, but was there because no one wanted him.

-Waiting for his mom or his uncle... -And nobody came.

Your grandfather's world

is unlike any other world I've ever experienced.

His way of protecting you, Jason, is to push you away.

And you may think by him...

he'll get on the phone and insult the hell out of you.

-He'll call you stupid... -Oh, yeah, he has.

You're incompetent and brain dead.

Fuck you.

Then you're going to get mad at me for telling the truth?

But that's his way of trying to push you away

because he doesn't want you wrapped up in that world.

There it is, brother.

CALIFORNIA STATE PRISON & HOSPITAL CORCORAN, CA

That's where your grandfather is, behind those fences, bro.

That's how close we are to him right now.

All right, bro, welcome to Corcoran State Prison.

-Game on. -Game on.

When we pulled up, we was going straight to the front gate...

...I was waiting for guns to be pulled, you know.

"Turn around and never come back" is what I expected.

-How are you doing, sir? -Good, how are you doing?

I need to get to the visiting center.

-What are you here for? -I'm here to see my grandfather.

He's in the hospital.

-I need all your identifications. -Okay.

-Now, what's this about? -I'm here to see my grandfather.

He's in the hospital and I brought my documentation

to show that I'm his grandson

and I was looking through the documentation for visitation

and it says on here for me to ask for the Sergeant,

so that I can fill the proper paperwork out.

because he's in the hospital right now and he's got early stages...

-Who's your grandfather? -Charles Manson.

-Charles Manson? Okay. -Yes, sir.

It's just hard for me to...

I see him in his last days and it's just hard for me to...

...see what's going on and not be able to be there...

Yes, and I understand that,

but, we still got procedures we got to follow

and you still have to go through the process

of getting cleared for the visit and all of that.

But once you submit that paperwork, you can come every weekend,

-no problem. Yeah. -Beautiful

I just don't see him living much longer

and I just want to... I just want to be beside him, that's all.

-Okay. And that's understandable. -It's all right, bro.

-If he's got... -No, he still thinks on his own.

He's not as bad as they're making it sound like it is.

-Yeah. -Yeah.

I can't divulge anything to you,

but I can let you know he's doing all right.

That's beautiful. Thank you for that. That's incredible.

I just opened up somehow.

I think it was spiritually because my mind was...

...you know, wrapped around being on the inside.

Without him sending you an application,

with his signature on it, that's just our policy,

we don't allow visitation like that.

-Even family? -It doesn't matter.

He has to request those people to be authorized as visitors.

Once he sends that request to you, you'd send it back to us.

And then we'd process you, but it has to be at his request only.

Got it.

We can't force him to take a visit with somebody.

-No... -And that's what I'm saying.

-No. -So, if I just took your application,

that would be me forcing him. You know what I mean?

He's in the hospital. He's on his deathbed, you know?

Like I had everything, I had all my documentation

from when I was a boy, to link everybody up to who my father is

and you know my grandfather had his set of rules at the prison

and everybody else had their own.

I'm so proud of you right now, bro, you're getting me all choked up.

-I had to open up a little bit. -I know but listen,

but you and I know why we're here and it's for the right thing.

It's to love him in the final stages of his life,

to let him knows somebody's here that cares.

Yeah.

You know what the best feeling was though?

Right before the conversation was over,

the one guard looked at me and said,

"Jason, I want you to know that your grandfather's..."

"Even though I'm not supposed to be telling you this."

"I want you to know that your grandfather's doing okay."

-That's right, man. -That was the best.

I looked at him with a whole different perspective and respect.

It's going to get back to him that you were at this gate today.

You mark my words, mark my words.

J.J.'s pretty good with his words and speaking from the heart

and I think it was important for my grandfather

to know that him and I were out there.

It wasn't just me, but it was somebody

that knew how to get word to him.

I want him to understand that every step I'm doing

-is to benefit his last wishes. -That's right.

You know, if his last wishes are to have his ashes

in my corner, in my house, spread across the river,

-I'm gonna do what he wants me to. -That's right, brother.

I just told him, Jason, if you don't do it,

they're going to throw him away like trash.

And Jason said, "That's not going to fucking happen.

I'm not going to let them throw my grandfather in the trash.

What do I have to do?

And I said, We have to get you as the next of kin.

I filed out the proper paperwork to prove to the courts that I am kin.

The reality is, you're me.

That you're my blood, man.

I feel like I'm on a journey, I just really want to grasp a hold

of what people think from every side. About my grandfather.

While I'm in Los Angeles California,

I want to meet as many people as I can

that can fill me in on my grandfather's path.

Who he was as a man from both sides of the coin.

I want to figure out why people look at him as an icon.

Look at him as a god.

It was 1967 and the Summer of Love,

Charlie had just gotten out of Federal Prison in LA.

And when it came time to parole him,

he said he didn't want to be paroled because prison was his home

and they literally had to escort him

to the front gate of the prison and boot him out.

He took a bus up to the Bay Area and he was drawn to Berkley

and Mary Brunner worked at the library at UC Berkley

and she and Charlie met and Mary got pregnant.

Charles Manson wanted to put together a group of people

to basically come along with him this anti-establishment

peaceful, loving, sex filled and drug filled family.

And he picked up these troubled, lost souls

along the way, wherever he could.

And he picked them out because they had Mommy or Daddy issues.

And he became kind of a father figure to them.

A Christ like figure to them. And he called them his children.

And one by one he pulled them in.

I met Charlie for the first time at a party,

through a couple of friends that took me there.

It was magical. Charles Manson had shoulder length, wavy hair.

He was in his early 30s, he was very playful, played the guitar.

He was a fairly good musician and I think he had some aspirations

that he would make some money from his songs.

Charlie used his music to help, you know, indoctrinate us.

He just had this way of convincing people of who they were

and what they could do for him and what he could do for them.

He had sex with them and told them whatever he thought

they needed to hear and they loved him.

And so he just really was cutting us all off.

You don't need your mom and dad. He loved being super isolated.

The place where the Manson family lived was actually a movie set.

It was called Spahn Ranch because it was actually the Spahn Movie Ranch

and that was its official name, named after the owner, George Spahn.

In turn, for living there for free, they helped take care of the Ranch.

And took the horses for rides and gave trail rides to visitors.

And basically lived on the farm in the middle of nowhere,

where they felt like they could live however they wanted.

I didn't know who I was.

I mean, I was so much, a Charlie follower at that point

that I didn't have my own mind.

He was definitely the one that led this group of people

into doing what they did.

Innocent people were murdered for the reason

Manson and the family wanted to start a race war.

The idea of someone striving as best that he could

you know, nearly 50 years ago,

to spark a racial apocalypse with Helter Skelter.

"Helter Skelter" was the name of a Beatles song,

but for Charles Manson, it was basically you know, Armageddon.

Charlie was sure that the Beatles were like these four prophets

that were communicating with him.

That you know "Helter Skelter" was coming down, you know.

The "Blackbird" song had something to do with the black man

Blood written on the walls of the Sharon Tate mansion

and somehow implicating black revolutionaries

who would happen to be passing through the neighborhood.

The one thing we do know about Charles Manson is that he was racist.

It's crazy, Helter Skelter scenario

that some people today still don't believe is really true.

But it came out in testimony

and Vincent Bugliosi ended up calling it, in court, Helter Skelter,

but even Manson called it Helter Skelter. It was a real thing.

I don't believe in Helter Skelter, or Vincent Bugliosi's narrative.

I never have.

I believe he was convicted of things he wasn't guilty of.

SPAHN RANCH LOS ANGELES, CA

Here we go, this is you walking for the first time basically on what...

For me, to see this man, Jason Freeman,

Charles Manson's grandson,

and the only thing he knows is what I consider to be ignorance.

I feel really, really super bad for him.

Just because I don't believe that Charles Manson is that person.

So here now we're coming down onto like the ranch proper.

The famous view of the horizon.

Billy is completely passionate, 100%,

on my grandfather's bandwagon.

I think it's very important for me to understand my grandfather

through other individuals who were close to him.

The more I learn about my grandfather,

the more I can learn about myself from the inside out.

You know? It's spiritual.

Down here would be you know, the two rows of Western towns,

and then all the way down there, the horse corral.

We had a driveway right here behind us.

There's a very famous picture of Susan Atkins standing here

on her tip toes with the mailbox with those rocks behind her.

Well, here you have it, the famous Life Magazine wave cave,

I guess as it's come to be known,

a spot everyone likes to come to so much

because of that iconic picture.

Was my grandfather here for that picture?

He was not here for the picture. That was after his arrest.

The photographers came out here sometime later

and kind of staged shots of the family at the ranch.

A story that I heard passed mouth to mouth was that he said what?

That rock over there? That was just a rock. You know?

But I imagine some people enjoyed this spot.

He's taking all this bad stuff

he's carrying with the rest of his confusion,

and I just tell him, hey, dude, you don't have to believe this.

There's some things you ought to know maybe about your grandfather

and what could have happened, not what they say happened.

Talking about asking if any place have any special significance?

I'd imagine this place would held some of the best memories for him.

Why don't you pull up a seat on the rock?

This is the spot where your grandfather

and his friends would come most of the time

to play their music a lot of times at night.

A spot where musicians, any musician makes their music

is a really sacred spot to any musicians.

And this is a rock that is now come to be known as Charlie's rock.

This is the spot where him and all his friends would come

-with all their instruments. -Okay.

Party, play their songs, write their songs...

I never thought as a kid, growing up,

that I'd be sitting on the same rock that my grandfather played on.

I'll tell you something else about it, a rock carries vibrations, right?

Almost like an amplifier.

So if you think of your grandfather sitting here,

playing those songs, it's got to give you a rush.

Did you hear some of the songs I wrote?

I've got a couple of your albums.

Most of that stuff is just stuff that fell off the edge of the table.

Just scoot over a little. See this right here?

-What do you think that is? -Yeah, yeah. I see that's CM.

Urban legend is that he actually did carve his initials in that rock.

I appreciate you bringing me here, man.

This is a historical spot obviously

and I got to see something I've never seen before.

Every step of my journey opens up my eyes to something new.

I highly appreciate it.

I want you to remember that anytime you're feeling something else

you can always come back to this rock, sit right back down on it

and get the same feeling that you're having now, brother.

-Let's go. -All right, man.

You know, guys like J.J. and Billy and their passion for my grandfather

was immensely high

and they had me thinking that my grandfather is innocent.

MANSON VERDICT ALL GUILTY!

People in general come at my grandfather from different angles.

You know, J.J. comes at him with overwhelming love.

Billy comes at him with injustice.

We got to hammer down on the system, you know?

And then we have Gray Wolf.

We use this to sort of get the word out.

My initial connection to Charlie and the family

just came from a random meeting with two people that knew him well

and they were the most righteous beautiful people I ever met.

As soon as I was with them on a daily basis,

I felt like I was home.

And outside the court, on the sidewalk,

some more of Manson's followers were holding their daily vigil.

Gray Wolf's been there since 1970.

I think he crawled on the ground to the courthouse with the girls.

You can't get much closer than that.

We made some pamphlets of people that were supporting Charlie.

And these booklets, a lot of them had to do with Outlaw,

which was what Charlie was all about.

ATWA, air, trees, water, animals.

Charlie wrote a statement basically sort of explaining his take on ATWA

and where he came, how he got to where he was

thinking about the land and the air

and the water and the trees and the animals.

Charlie's quote, "Work to show, teach, preach, set,

prove to the ones you love and work to redeem soul.

All computers set for ATWA.

Never lie and we are ATWA."

To me, it's a moment of fulfillment right here.

We're standing right here everybody on the planet right now

we have choices that we are gonna make a big difference

for people that come behind us.

I stand beside ATWA, there isn't no reason not to.

I mean, it's the truth.

Meeting somebody like Jason, it's not something you go,

"Here's five things you should know right away and you'll be fine."

It's, you know... it's about living and being truthful.

The sun creates everything.

I believe in the moon.

I believe in the ocean, the tide, the whales,

the bears and the woods.

I believe in everything, man.

HANFORD, CALIFORNIA

I'm going to introduce you to a guy

that's known your grandfather since the early '90s,

not too many people know him better than this guy.

This is George Stimson, he's the author of Goodbye Helter Skelter.

-Hi, Jason. Nice to meet you. Yeah. -It's really nice to meet you, sir.

When I first met Charlie, I think visiting him in 1991.

I was pursuing this case for years.

Other than reading about him superficially in news reports,

I would have thought, yes, crazy hippy cult leader.

But I would say the first time I read Helter Skelter,

I could see that that wasn't true.

And that that was a gross misrepresentation of what went on.

So that was that thing that initially got me interested in it,

because I wanted to find out what really went on.

I visited him, almost 200 times over ten years.

I had a lot of chances to get to know him in different circumstances

and see how he acted different ways. And I acted different ways.

It's not like people say,

you went in and he brainwashed you into writing this book.

And it's like, no, I don't want to put your grandfather down,

but Bugliosi says he's a master con man,

and I would have to disagree with that, he's not that good.

And that's part of the problem. He got in trouble back then,

was helping people out, having all of those people around

and helping them because that's his nature.

It would be hard to summarize,

except to say that he was not a cult leader, it was not a cult.

He didn't have hypnotic powers over these people.

They were acting on their own

and they acted more as a result of circumstances

rather than being told what to do by someone else.

I had a grudge on him...

...for the death of my, of my father

due to an article that was in the newspaper

that Manson's son visits Manson and then he blows his brains out.

He's very guarded with his emotions. He's very guarded with everything.

You know he wouldn't say to me anything about your dad dying.

That's not really something that I need to know from him.

So, what can you tell me that would be something that I could hold onto?

Well, I don't want to try to whitewash him.

But really how good he is.

And I'm not saying he's a good guy. He's a terrible guy.

He's both, he's all of it.

-He's good and bad. -He's good and evil.

I'm not saying he's a good guy.

I would certainly not want to be on his bad side

but then why would I ever be on his bad side?

I'm not going to get there. I don't get on bad people's bad sides.

I'm not in this world to make enemies.

-That's what I tell people about me. -Yeah.

Just stay on my good side, man, we're cool.

He's fine. He's a very good guy and he's a very bad guy.

-Just so you realize that. -Yeah.

He has a lot of experience with people,

you know, from being in prison and relating with people

in a kind of forced environment for so long.

But he is...

I'm not going to say deficient in some ways

but he doesn't have a lot of worldly experience,

but he has an incredible amount of wisdom.

I wanted him to know my impressions of the man.

Just to let him know, to give him a more rounded view of him.

You know, I think what you're doing is right.

It's coming from your heart and your soul

and it's the same heart and soul that's in him. So...

I hope you get together, I think you should.

I have my own opinion. It's a lot different than Jason's

when it comes to these people.

And when Jason started talking to them, it was almost like

he was being pulled from what he thought and he knew,

into this whole crazy just other world.

I wish I could have went with him to California.

Now I wish I would have, just to see for myself, you know what I mean?

'Cause I'd have been like, no, you're not going around these people.

All of this extra information and he's innocent

and these other people who are air, trees, water, animals.

This was definitely the background noise.

Honor to meet you. The honor's all mine.

OUTSIDE TAMPA FLORIDA, 2017

I get back from California,

I just switched from one job to another job, the same profession.

I've got to travel back up to Ohio.

Back in the oil field, staying with my mom.

My wife's back home, she has our kids.

It's been difficult.

Being on the road, it isn't easy.

To accept this call say or dial five now.

If you were to visit, they're gonna wanna challenge you.

They're going to say, "You can't come in, we don't know you.

You're not on the list, you're not approved."

They make up a thousand rules, man.

You'd have to murder about 35 people

before you could even start.

Because I got ego trips that just despises me.

They despise everything I'm about

because they're jealous, coward punks.

I know, you know what I told J.J.?

I told John... John, I said, I said, "If I got to...

if I got to knock somebody out to be beside my grandfather,

I said, that's what I'll do.

-But I don't want that. -No.

Your grandfather don't want you doing that.

Your grandfather wants you to raise your kids and have a good life.

I'm doing that. Hey, did you get my visitation form yet?

That I sent to you? Did you get my form?

-No, that's what I'm telling you. -No. I know.

You're dealing with... super bad people, man.

I know that.

These people, they're assholes. They're triple assholes.

-Hey. -I've gotta go, soldier.

-You have a good day. -Hey, man, I love you.

Man!

-Mom? -Yeah?

I'm in here, heating up stuff for your grandma.

I got to get her, her supper.

Made it back in. Made it through another day.

You've made it another day. All right.

-Love you. -Love you.

Oh, making some food, huh? I just happen to be starving.

Did you hear the latest news about, about Grandpa?

-What now? -He's be back in the hospital again.

-So he is in the hospital? -Yeah.

-Is he that sick this time or...? -Oh, he's ...

Last year, I found out that he got cancer.

And he's bleeding from the inside out and...

I didn't know he had cancer.

Yeah, yup. And...

I don't know I just wish, I just wish something would give.

I wish I would get a break to be able to go see him. I mean, it would be...

Is that what he's going to die from is cancer?

He could die any day. Yeah.

If he's back in that hospital again a year later, same thing happening.

He's got, he's got cancer and he's not going

through any kind of radiation

or removal of the cancer. Yeah, I mean...

Do they take care of you in prison when you're sick like that?

It's just a matter of time, you know?

Yeah, they'll take care of you, but I just don't see them,

taking care of an 82-year-old man, an 83-year-old man, you know

I think he's given up, Mom. I think he's just had enough.

I want to update our breaking news right now, Charles Manson,

one of the most notorious murder masterminds in US history,

has died at the age of 83.

When I learned of my grandfather's death,

I was at my mom's house, I had to let my wife know.

And in that same breath, I had to let her know

that I didn't have that job in Ohio that we take care of our family with.

There was two major things when I woke up.

I didn't have a job and I lost my grandfather.

Jason was emotional

because he tried to get out there to see his grandfather.

He never got to do that. But I think he was prepared for it.

It's done. It's just done.

People that like him, or worship him or whatever,

they're probably not going to go around my son now

because Jason wanted to make sure he was buried

and he didn't want him to be exploited anymore.

One thing that I'll never forget they put a picture of Charlie

and it said, "Burn in hell."

I didn't believe it at first, because I've heard it a hundred times before.

But then once I saw the news

where Debra Tate said it,

once I saw Debra Tate say it, I knew it was real.

When she said that the prison had called her...

The prison calls Debra Tate, but they don't call Jason.

When I talked to J.J. on the phone, he was just in tears, man. Yeah...

His raspy voice, man, "He's gone, man, he's gone."

The thought of him laying up in that fucking funeral home right now...

being unclaimed, it's just not gonna happen, bro.

-No. -I'll die before I let that happen.

I wonder if he would have got to see him, how that would have turned out.

If my son had actually gotten through to him.

That we are family and you do have people that genuinely worry about you

and care about what might happen to you.

I don't think Charles had that in his whole life.

So are you heading to California?

Yeah. That's...

That's our next plan.

We have to secure the remains of Grandpa.

-Do you think you'll get them? -I don't see how they can stop me.

We got the proper paperwork and we're on our way.

I think you're doing the right thing.

If an inmate dies and they don't' have a will,

they cremate them and throw them away,

and I talked to Charlie about that and...

...he said, "In the trash is where I belong."

And he refused for a year, we fought him to sign,

but you couldn't make Charlie do shit.

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA

I want to go to California and claim my grandfather's remains

and I asked J.J. to be with me.

I met up with J.J. in Venice

and we went over the game plan so we could see what to do next.

-Man, how are you holding up? -Nice to see you. You know.

I hate that we have to meet under these circumstances, bro,

but you know, we've got things we've got to take care of.

And I say "we" because you're going to win this, man.

You're the only legal descendent of Charles Manson.

We've got to meet the lawyer, we've got to get to the court house,

and with the proper paperwork,

we'll get your grandfather and we'll bring him home.

Once you get his body, what are you going to do?

This is what I want to do, this is me personally.

This is everybody else off to the side.

There's, five people, five good friends of my grandfather's

and I want to do a ceremony

and I want to give each of my grandfather's friends

something to remember him by and always have.

That's my goal.

You're going to be under the microscope, brother.

There's going to be a media frenzy

when you walk out those doors with your grandfather.

There's going to be haters. There's going to be more death threats,

You're sick, you're going to hear all that crap.

Jason said, "Well, you know, I'm next of kin,

and I'm, I'm going to do what's right and I'm gonna claim the remains."

Once that was made public,

that he was stepping out and was going to do that,

social media kind of exploded on us,

our local newspaper has a Facebook page

and, of course, he was plastered all over the front page.

We were called everything from trash to anything you could think of.

Pretty nasty actually.

When you get close to someone like Charles Manson you get all this.

You get attention and sometimes it's, it's real scary.

J.J. and I were heading up to Bakersfield

to claim my grandfather's body.

I got a call from Audrey and she was not happy.

I don't want to put more pressure on you, I don't.

Well, you do, so maybe think about it first.

Okay? You're out there fucking, doing whatever.

I'm trying to keep my head on.

I'm very, very unhappy right now.

I have no fucking support.

I got kids, got the bills, fucking shit piling up on top of me.

I ain't got nobody here to help me.

You know there's something wrong

when you have formed your entire life around following one person.

These people, are you going to do this, or we think you should do that.

There was enough information given, to keep him there.

I felt like he was being drawn off the path that he knew he wanted

because all of these people who supposedly were these close friends,

knew what was best because they knew Charlie.

So Jason felt compelled to take the route

that they were telling him to take.

It's been difficult, I've had a lot of challenges.

The strain on the relationship is...

You know, it feels like you just pull them ropes tight,

and you think them ropes are gonna break.

I just remember multiple times being away from home that the ropes just...

you can hear them pulling tight.

I believe in my higher power that me and my wife

are going to come through this and become stronger.

You know, if I can suggest something,

I would say that play a little mind game with them and say that,

"I was told that the Kern County was trying to get in touch

with next of kin and the next of kin is here.

My name is Jason Freeman. I'm the grandson

and I would like any information that you can give me.

"And if you can't, can you at least point me in the right direction?"

-Okay. -And I would just go from there.

Imagine him, he's right here.

We're this close to him.

Kern County Coroner, we're in the right place, brother. After you.

Hello.

Okay. Thanks, ma'am.

-Hi. -Hi, ma'am.

-How are you? -I'm okay.

Just trying to walk through some rough steps

you know, whenever someone passes away, it's just...

-Yeah, I know that. -It's not easy.

-You're the grandson, right? -Yes, ma'am.

I recognize you. Good seeing you.

-They were looking for you. -Yes, ma'am.

I got word that you guys were looking for me

to fill the proper documentation out for my grandfather.

-Who's your grandfather? -Charles Manson.

-They were looking for you? -Well...

-Next of kin, he's the next of kin. -Yep.

Well, let me call and get the manager for you.

Please, that would be great, thank you.

I know that there has been many... let me go ahead and see.

-Okay, thank you, ma'am. -Yes, ma'am.

I personally don't know anything about Mr. Manson,

but he's just a person to me, like I know his past or what he did,

but I don't know anything about it like people say...

-Details. Yeah. -I just...

Yeah. I try to leave the details out of it too,

especially at a time like this.

It's just, you know, I'm here for one thing,

and that's, you know, to give my grandfather a resting place.

That's all we all want at the end of the day.

-Jason? All right, come on back. -Yes, ma'am? Yeah. Thank you.

Good luck, brother.

Yes!

Establishing who is the legal next of kin.

Yes, ma'am. I mean it.

Walking out of the Coroner's Office, it was the first time...

First time in a long time where when you go into a place of authority

where you walk into certain rooms...

and you can walk back out freely because nothing is holding you there.

A weight that was holding me down for the longest time

was a lot of people didn't believe who I was.

They didn't expect me to show up today and just hand them paperwork.

They expected to get something in the mail.

And she said, "Well, we just have to go through

the people that have stepped up and see who is family and see who isn't.

But all your documentation has shown us that you are related."

-And that... -Yes!

Proud of you, brother. Proud of you, man.

And for them to recognize me and my grandfather...

...as being family, that's all I needed. I was happy.

Huge step for the good guys

and being the decision makers, that looks good in your favor, bro.

You took the initiative to come in.

Guarantee you're the only one to do that.

After I left the Coroner's Office, I...

I had this satisfaction on the inside

and I've already laid enough on Audrey

and she's already consumed enough of what's going on around her,

I had to make the right phone call.

You know, who am I supposed to call to tell this exciting news to?

Well, it's exciting to me, may not be exciting to the rest of the world.

But I knew my mom could respect it.

See what Mom's up to.

-Hello. -Mother.

-Hey, how's it going? -What are you doing?

Oh, I'm just sitting here watching TV

and I just wanted to know how your day went before I went to bed.

Yeah. Things went well.

We actually went to the Kern County Coroner

and they actually let me in the back

and I was able to show all the court documentations

that you saved for me from birth

and all the stuff that you saved, Mom, and you gave me.

I used today.

-And have all the answers. -And have all the answers.

I tried to get a hold of Audrey.

I told her I wanted to talk to you before I went to bed.

She said she was going to bed.

-She never answered me back. -No. No, whenever ...

She has some hard days at work, Mom,

and I just got to make sure I'm there for her mentally

and I'm just not there physically and that's the hard part right now.

-I got to go, Mom. -All right, bye.

-Okay, I love you. Bye. -I love you. Bye.

I met Dale Kiken through J.J.

My intentions were to claim my grandfather's body.

That was Dale's job, Dale was the perfect guy to be in my corner.

We've got one shot at this.

As far as the court was concerned, up in Kern County,

their big issue is, we have a body.

We need to have someone take the body,

or give us permission to dispose of it,

or intern it ourselves.

The code section, in California, basically talks about,

if there aren't any identifiable immediate relatives

that would be next of kin.

When you have contact with, as you did, with the Sheriff,

that tends to diminish the trustworthiness of the attorneys

that are representing you, in the eyes of the sheriff.

So, it's best to uphold the attorney client privilege...

...and to preserve your right not to speak,

not to give testimony by having an attorney

who makes statements for you and who has contact with officials.

So, to underscore that, I would say,

please do not have further contact with any of the authorities.

Be it the Sheriff, be it the Corcoran facility,

court clerks, judges. So...

So I've got to, I've got you to help me protect myself from me.

-Exactly. -Yeah.

The Kern County County Council did a very good job

of exploring the issues and the possible claimants.

There were Michael Channels and Matthew Lentz.

We believe that the will that was prepared by Mr. Channels

may under California law be deemed to be conclusively

the product of fraud and therefore invalid.

So we've laid the groundwork for that determination.

Matthew Lentz, who you had a circumstance with, many years ago,

where his DNA was compared to yours,

having the presumption that you,

in fact, are the son of Charles Manson Jr.

who was, in fact, the son of Charles Manson

that your DNA would be a good guideline to compare with his.

And, as I understand it, the determination

was that you couldn't possibly be relatives.

Which would mean that he couldn't possibly be

a relative of Charles Manson.

A piece of my grandfather's going to go down in history.

We don't need to have people spreading my grandfather's ashes

all over the United States. It's got to end now.

The next problem would be, who else is an heir that might be claiming?

So we need to see who else might be out there.

We want to error on the side of giving notice to everyone possible.

Charles Manson, you know, my former guru, lover,

I lived with him for two years and the family.

Mary Bruner was the first woman I believe

that Charlie met in San Francisco.

She adored him and she had his baby which we named...

well, we named him Poo Bear and I was there at that birth.

So, if there is an heir that has a greater right

because they're closer than you are,

for instance, if there is a son that makes the claim,

his right would be greater than yours.

There's only one person, generally acknowledge

to be Charles Manson's son alive, which is my client, Michael Brunner.

Subtitles: Philip Macdonald www.sdimedia.com