Original subtitles

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clock ticks

Say that there is a normal person.

She or he sees their family, their mom,

their dad, their dog, my perspective of family,

I live with my mom and my step-dad.

My other brother lives with me.

My dad hates my mom.

My older brother hates my mom

and I can't see either of them.

It's not fair that any family goes through this.

It breaks up your family.

It makes life harder and you just

don't see the world the same.

engaging dramatic music

Francisco Every 60 seconds, a child loses contact

with one parent, permanently, because

of what's going on in the family court system.

-Christine One parent gets to be a parent

and the other gets to be, at best, a visitor,

and at worst, completely erased.

- It destroys lives it bankrupts people every day.

It tears children from their homes and it just so happens

to be a 50 billion dollar a year industry.

protestors chanting

-Ned It's an epidemic that people don't realize

that this country and other countries are going through.

Nobody wants to talk about it until it happens to you.

-Jennifer This isn't a father's rights issue.

It's not a mother's rights issue.

It's a human right issue.

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-Ginger My parents' divorce was so messy that after

I graduated from university, I moved,

literally, half way across the world to Argentina.

Anything I could do to get away from them.

But divorce and its effects on kids kept following me

and I made a film called "Erasing Dad," "Borrando a Papa,"

that exposes the discrimination fathers face

when they want to be in their kids' lives after divorce.

The film's release caused the law in Argentina to be changed

so that moms and dads could share joint custody.

It also helped me to heal and reconnect with my family

and I returned to the United States.

I wanted to make a follow up film

and after a post on Facebook, my inbox

was flooded with desperate pleas for help.

Why were all these families reaching out to me, a filmmaker?

Why were the family courts unable to help them?

I decided to tell the stories

of the ignored victims of family court, the children.

- I was only five-years-old.

One day we were all good, we were all happy,

and then the next it's like, oh,

my dad's no longer in the picture.

- I didn't really know what was happening at the time.

- My first memory that I have is my parents fighting.

- I have more bad memories than good memories.

- The day my dad moved out was extremely hard.

I was crying all the time.

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- When I was born my parents were

in the middle of a divorce.

So, the first time my dad saw me I was

in my grandma's arms in a courtroom.

My mom only had one photo.

It was a picture of him and he

was holding my sister, Cheylsea.

A lot of mewanted to have a relationship

with my biological father.

I remember asking my mom every day, "Has dad called?

"Has dad called?"

She kept telling me, "Maybe he's just busy,"

and then that turned into, "He's not your dad."

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I was informed that basically he was poison to me and he

would manipulate me if I was ever in contact with him.

When I was reading the divorce file though,

there was a lot of things I didn't know happened.

There's flaws in the system.

I've never known a life were one parent wasn't missing.

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- I think that as a child, like,

I kind of knew it was coming subconsciously.

There's moments that I have flashbacks where I can see

the door close, I could be standing in the hallway

just hearing them screaming, so I just kind of disappear.

So, when my parents got divorced, I was 12-years-old.

My father was like, "Pack your things.

"We're gonna go visit your grandma for a little while."

- When they left, he pulled them out of school

and I didn't know what to do.

I was so overwhelmed with what was going on.

I was living up in Pennsylvania,

because I was in the military.

They ended up in Virginia.

birds chirp

- Karyn, my stepmom, I also call her mom,

she came into my life when I was about 14.

- Initially I was there practically every weekend,

but the visits started to decrease every month,

and then, I was stopped, sometimes it was because

the children would call me and say the didn't wanna come.

Sometimes, I would get an email saying,

"Well the kids don't wanna see you this weekend."

It was signed by my ex, but it sounded like his wife.

- I was just so confused.

I really felt like she didn't want anything to do with me.

- I can't even really answer why the whole thing happened.

I was never on drugs.

I had no criminal background.

I had no psychological issues, other than

being heartbroken, because I lost my children.

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- Me and my older brother had a really good relationship

most of our lives, and we would play video games together,

and everything was normal, like a normal sibling.

- My older son always looked to his father.

My ex-husband and I separated and at that time

my son realized that if he didn't side with his father,

likely, he wouldn't have his father in his life.

So, he had to choose mom or dad, and I think it was

a survival mechanism and he chose his father.

- It just seems like one day out

of the blue he's just angry at her.

- He would come home from their dad's to say

I was horrible and demand what their dad wanted at the time.

-Lauren Then he would always say like,

"I wanna kill her."

- That wasn't my son, but he was being so influenced

that that's how he had to act towards me.

-Lauren Oftentimes, she just starts crying

on my shoulder, but I don't know how to help her.

- I get reminded everyday, like "Oh, you're dad sucked."

- My dad and my step-mom sat me down and discussed

with me how awful of a person my mom was.

- I don't think my mom wanted me

to have any contact with my father.

- Growing up I had learn to hate him.

- As I got older my dad said, "You owe your loyalties

"to me because I've been here for you

"and your mom hasn't, and your mom left you."

- It's a constant reminder because

I am my father's child, so.

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- I began studying parental alienation

approximately three years ago.

I started looking around to people who have been

affected by this on Facebook groups

and support groups, and I didn't get any answers.

I thought, it's time to put some

serious scientific attention to this problem.

Parental alienation, the set of behaviors

that a parent will do to try to distance their child,

or hurt the relationship between

the child and the other parent.

It can be very subtle.

They can refer to the other parent in pronouns,

completely undermining their role as a parent.

The custodial parent really colors

the way that child perceives events.

Obviously you trust and love your parent and you want

to believe that what they're telling you is correct.

That child is then expressing

and parroting back what they're hearing.

How many of you have had it happen to you?

Just by a show of hands.

That's about, I'd say about 40%.

I ask this of every class that I teach.

It's heartbreaking to me to see

how many of you are dealing with this.

I was trying to estimate the scope of the problem

and we conducted a poll in order to do that.

13% of these adults reported feeling alienated

from one or more of their children, and what

that comes out to is over 22 million American adults are

feeling like they are being alienated from their children.

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If there's 22 million adults dealing with this,

that's over 22 million children, and the mental health

consequences on that child are severe and long-lasting.

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- "I therefore find that X is an alienated child,

"and that he has been alienated from his mother

"by the words, actions, and behavior of his father."

The Child Custody and Access Report

found that Brandyn was alienated.

I knew something was wrong before that,

I just hadn't heard of a name for it.

The judge did take away dad's access for a month

as sort of a warning because of behavior that was going on.

So, the judge was really swift in his actions,

but the problem is if one parents wants

to make things difficult it's almost impossible

to get things in front of the judge

if they're not turning up for their court dates,

if they're hiding from process servers and things.

They can drag it on and the judge

can't do anything about that.

- I have went to about four counselors.

The counselor, he asked us to draw a picture of how we felt.

I drew a house, split in half, with Brandyn

and my dad on one side, and me, my middle brother,

and my mom on the other side, and it was just cut in half.

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- I ended up leaving high school in my second sophomore year

and went to beauty school at 15.

See how your layers kinda cascade together now.

My ex and I divorced while she was pregnant with Ashlynn,

and then we had a big argument over the phone,

and the next morning I was served with a restraining order.

This was a permanent Order of Protection.

I kept everything.

It amazes me that I go through all of this

and nowhere in here does she say I'm a bad father.

Our divorce is our divorce.

What we went through, what she did to me,

what I did to her, what our relationship

was has nothing to do with our children.

- "Your honor, I wish it to be known that all

"I am after is to have unsupervised visitation

"and joint custody of my daughters.

"My children are very important to me

"and I am very important to them."

- This was the worst paper I ever had to file.

- He's scared to continue any type of attempt

for visitation because of some threat.

- "I feel like it's best to withdraw

"my petition for visitation."

- "Although, I have not been afforded the opportunity

"to see my youngest daughter, I love both of my children."

- "My ex-wife will go to any extreme

"in her vendetta against me and others.

"Therefore, I withdraw my petition,

"and pray the situation will change in the future

"and I will become a part of my daughters' lives."

crying

- This is hard because you're reading a letter

that your parent feels hopeless.

- I lost 'em.

- Here, I don't know when's the last time you've seen this.

- Peanuthead.

- I mean they're just pictures of his life.

Look how cute you were though.

I should give this to you.

We had good four years where

we were just extremely nasty to each other.

- It was almost like this messy situation through a divorce,

where it was team mom, or team family in Virginia.

My family started asking me about the divorce and my choice.

I felt like my support system was right there in front of me

so it was a pretty simple answer at the time.

- You can always look back at a situation and say,

"Oh, I probably could've done this

"and been a little nicer about it,"

or welcomed her more, or better conversations.

But, no I think she disappeared on her own.

- Ow.

This is a transcript of when I want to pick my kids up.

I rolled down the window, asked Rick

if the kids were gonna get in the car,

and he said, "That is up to the kids.

"They can decide what to do."

birds chirp

- I was calling the police, I called the courts,

I called whoever I could think of to help me,

and they were like, "Oh, no sorry,

"there's nothing we can help you with.

"Unless they do something physically harming

"the children we can't intervene with this."

I just went through all these emails in here.

This is all the stuff I had to provide to the court.

So, I was more angry with the courts than I was with

what was happening because it was like, it's almost like

the thought that there's no gray area.

It's all black and white.

It was almost like they were looking to assign blame

to somebody rather than figure out a way

to make it work for everybody.

All I wanted was to have a relationship

and be able to see my children,

and I felt that there had to be a better way to do this

and what I was experiencing was not it.

- I think I was about eight.

There was a custody battle that happened.

- When the divorce was final,

I saw my dad every other weekend.

- It was supposed to be 51/49 my dad to my mom.

Eventually it went to I was only living at mom's.

- My mom hired the most expensive lawyer

to make sure that she got sole custody.

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-Ginger The family court system is mandated

to work in the best interest of the children, but what

actually goes on behind the closed doors of family court?

- If you watch any of the law shows,

you come in today and you're in court tomorrow.

That's not how it works.

You're talking usually six, eight, 12 months

down the road and during that period of time,

it's very traumatic for children.

- Too many cases, not enough judges,

I was responsible for over 1000 cases.

Some days I would have 15, 20 hearings.

-Lawyer But you were in fear of imminent,

serious bodily harm, isn't that true?

- Family Court really sets the stage for conflict

because that is the nature of the legal process.

It's adversarial.

- If the parent is angry, I want the parent

to continue talking, even though what is being said

is not relevant, you always have to listen.

- Mr. Dehaven make sure the questions are clear

and don't ask redundant questions--

- If you have a parent who has mental health issues,

control issues, that person can keep combing back to court.

Even if a person cries, "Wolf, wolf" four, five, six times.

-Ginger In criminal court the state has to pass

certain tests to file charges, but not so in Family Court.

One parent can bring the other parent back to court

for something as serious as domestic violence,

or as petty as not liking the food they feed their child.

Family Court doesn't have to find a parent guilty

of a crime, only that the other parent is the better parent.

So, evidence standards are much looser

in Family Court than in Criminal Court.

- They are not looking for clear evidence

to support or refute either parent's claims,

and that's very problematic.

- We have a lot of stereotypes that are negative

for the fathers, where they're more abusive or aggressive

than mothers, that they're deadbeat dads.

And we have a lot of very positive stereotypes about mothers

being the better parent, however if a mother works,

that is often used against those mothers.

The other pattern is that the father will make

the mother look like she's crazy,

and everybody looks crazy in divorce.

-Ginger While the courts are mandated to work

in the best interests of the child, nowhere

in the civil code is this term defined.

So, judges, custody evaluators, and psychologists

can make findings based on opinions that they don't have

to justify or show scientific evidence to validate.

- Approximately 28 billion has been the estimate

of how much this costs a year for Family Court involvement.

It's to psychologists who have to get assigned or appointed

by the court to make an evaluation.

They get paid 1000s of dollars.

Expert witnesses that parents have to call.

It's an industry because all of these pieces play a role.

- I've had at least four or five counselors and doctors,

three or four lawyers, it's cost close to a million dollars.

-Ginger Because it is Civil Court you no right

to an attorney, this presents a barrier to families

who can't afford to pay for one.

- The attorney I had didn't wanna do his job

because I wasn't able to pay him in full.

He could've talked about the parental alienation

and said something referring to that

and he didn't say a word, because I couldn't pay him.

- I had nobody and on a $600 a month income,

you can't afford anybody.

-Ginger How is destroying a parent financially

and emotionally in the child's best interests?

- Nothing I said mattered.

None of the evidence I brought forward mattered.

The judge wouldn't even look at it.

I mean, like literally wouldn't look at it.

My ex said plain and clearly that there was nothing

that I could do to get to see my kids,

and the judge asked me what I wanted,

and I said, "I want you to find her in contempt of court"

and the judge wouldn't do it.

He said, "That's the children caretaker."

And I said, "What am I?"

And he goes, "You're the financial support."

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And I get a phone call from my ex.

She said, "You're children wanna see you.

"They wanna be in your life."

And I said, "How soon can you come over?"

- When I first met my Dad, at 10, I remember pulling up

in the car and he was like smiling like ear-to-ear.

- My wife was elated.

My other daughter was excited.

- My dad took my sister Carala, and I, and Cheylsea

to go do like a family photo shoot thing,

and I just remember feeling really happy

because we were all together.

- God, it was such a blessing.

- It was actually a very good visit.

We met at a park so that they were able

to play on the toys and feed the geese.

- I knew he was somehow family in one way or another,

but it's like I didn't know him.

It didn't really feel like a father-daughter thing

because I didn't have that sort of connection with him.

- I think I was four and they got

to come stay for a little bit.

We used to play Polly Pockets together.

- They made me feel very secure about every issue

I ever had growing up, wondering where he was.

He got a tattoo on his back of my birthday

and I was informed by my mom and my step-dad that

that tattoo got removed and it hadn't.

The visits with my dad ended kind of abruptly.

storming

- Me ex said, "You know, with what they take out

"of your checks for child support I know that you struggle,

"and I would like to help with that.

"So, I have an idea."

- The last time I remember seeing

my dad he was signing papers.

- Ashlynn's crying, I'm crying, and I've got

my kid's step-dad telling me, "Don't worry, I'll make sure

"she never takes your children away from you again."

- By that point, Robert had been their dad for a few years.

It just seemed like the next step.

- I knew something big was gonna happen.

- I've got here sitting there telling me,

"It's not gonna change anything.

"You're still their daddy, you're still their daddy,"

and the minute the papers were signed and their car doors

were shut, and everybody drove off,

that was the last time I saw 'em.

- The purpose of me meeting my father when I was 10

wasn't really about what I wanted from it

or anything like that, it was just

to get the adoption to go through.

- I signed my rights.

I'm ashamed, I'm embarrassed, I hate myself everyday for it.

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- It sometimes felt as if my parents wanted me

to choose sides, they'd be like, "What do you think?

- They basically left it up to us,

whether we wanted to see him or not.

- To pick a parent at five, I probably

wouldn't know who to pick at all.

- Oh that was--

-Aunt Look, wave to Aunt--

- Wave, go wave, hi.

I found out that Brian was adopted

by Karyn I believe through an email.

Ooh, okay.

I was angry and heartbroken.

- This is that when you adopt somebody, everything about

the person disappears and it all starts over.

- I think she was making a much more bigger deal than I was.

She was really excited, and felt like

she was pretty nervous or maybe

a little nervous to ask me.

- So, on it says Certificate of Birth,

like I gave birth to you on this day.

That's how this is written, like

it wipes everything else before that

and now this is your legal document.

So, if anybody searched your birth.

This is what they would see.

They would see that I am now on your

birth certificate as if I gave birth to you.

- To me, Karyn was mom and it was important to her.

- It's like that never happened and this did.

- That's an interesting way to make things happen, yeah.

- Right?

- Yeah.

I really didn't even think about Caroline at the time.

- This is a card I sent to my daughter that I took

a picture of so she would know that I sent it,

and I did that with many cards that I sent them.

This was a photo that was taken when she was little.

Oh God, all right.

The adoption paperwork for Katie.

I received an email from Karyn, saying

that Katie wanted to be adopted also.

By that point, she wasn't talking to me anymore really.

She didn't want anything to do with me.

It just says who we are and my consent to the adoption.

- Not good.

My daughter testified on the stand

and said that she didn't wanna see me.

And it was in open court, I watched the whole thing.

I was thinking right across from her

looking at her while it was happening.

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- As soon as society and the legal system starts

to ask a child, "Who should you choose to live with?"

"Who would you like to live with?"

Then right away, they are asking a child

to make a choice about who's a better parent,

and that means one parent gets to be a parent,

and the other gets to be a best, a visitor,

and at worst, completely erased.

waves lap

Like I would just say, "It's easier to not to talk to her,"

and that was such an easy decision, and in reality

there's no way that a decision like that could've been easy.

So, in turn that's how I started building my walls.

Like, "Screw you all, no one's getting in here."

As a kid we just don't want the stress

of having to figure all this out.

- I think the parents a lot of times aren't even conscious

of the conflict they're creating for the child,

or the way they're manipulating them.

One of the concerns when you interview a child is

they come into a stranger's office,

in an uncomfortable setting, they've been brought here

by one or the other of parent,

the other one's sitting out there.

They feel incredibly conflicted and so I don't know that we

get accurate information from children when they come in.

- What I remember about being in court

was having to lie to the judge.

Sorry.

- I have one case that sticks in my mind where the child

wrote me and told me that all of things she had

complained about in detail had all been a lie.

- My step-dad was gonna be my real dad now.

I remember telling mom something along the lines of,

"I don't feel this way about my step-dad.

"I don't want my step-dad to be my dad."

And she told me that basically it was too late to say that

and it was out of my hands at that point.

I was scared, to be honest, so I lied

and I said, "Yeah, I'm okay with this.

"I'm comfortable with this, this is what I want,"

and I felt a lot of guilt for that for a long time.

Like, it was my fault that I felt that way

because I should just rewire my brain

and think the way they think, which was

I shouldn't have a relationship with him.

I started smoking when I was 12,

cutting myself regularly.

I don't recall any kind of follow-up or check-up.

I was never talked to by a social worker

or a psychologist on anything about it.

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I had a boyfriend, I had a talk with him one day

about my situation with my father.

- She just felt like she couldn't really talk

about her father, Dizzy, around her mother

and her step-father and I just gave her somebody

in her corner to fight for her decision

and whether or not she wanted to pursue it.

The worst thin gthat could happen is you never talk

to him again, but the best case scenario

is so much brighter than that, you know.

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- I contacted dad.

I was on the phone with my dad for the first time

since I was 10 and it was like the most crazy feeling.

Then I found out that my mom and my step-dad

started listening to our phone calls.

I got into a very vicious argument

and I ended up getting kicked out.

- She had called me and let me know that she was homeless.

She was 14 and I have no legal right to drive up

and pick her up, she's not my child according to the courts.

- They came to pick me up, my step-dad and my mom,

and basically told me that if I wanted to live

in that house and have a happy family,

I needed to cut ties with my real father.

The family kind of changed after that.

Things were different.

People weren't really acknowledging me.

People were treating me poorly.

Yeah, I felt like I was the enemy in my own house.

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- And I think about 60 or 70 of these interviews.

Just like with domestic violence, people blame the victim.

"What did this parent do?

"They must be doing something to make

"this child not want to see them."

It shows an ignorance of what human development is like

and the power that a parent has in that child's life

and how they perceive the world.

This child has been brain-washed.

They hate that parent or they inherently don't trust them.

They don't like 'em and they

don't have a good reason for it.

- My dad had my brother snoop through my mom's paperwork.

- And I got to the point where I resented going

with my father, I would yell at him, I would say,

"I hate you, why are you doing this?"

- It was always ingrained in me that my mom was the enemy

and that I shouldn't want to see her.

- And how much of a liar she was, and all

these terrible things about her that I knew wasn't true.

-Ginger What goes through the mind

of a child trained to hate a parent?

We talked to Candis, who was brave enough to come forward.

- I became deeply fearful of my dad.

Iranian culture is not exactly popular in the United States

and my mom showed me that film "Not Without My Daughter."

- We're not going back, we're staying here.

I want us to live in Iran.

- And, told me this is what your dad's culture is.

They're all kidnappers.

They wanna steal children and hurt women.

- Mommy!

- She really wanted to erase our identity.

It was really a very slow process

of conditioning me into accepting statements

that I otherwise would not have believed.

My dad would go to hug me and I would reject him

and I confronted him every chance I got,

to scream and yell at him about

why he was a bad person, why his culture was so bad,

and rejecting everything that made him, him.

When I was at his house when he would manage

to get visitation, I would go through his papers.

I knew what I needed to do when I was around

his information and that was to steal it and give it

to my mom so she could get him fired and this

and that, and that's what she would do.

She would call these companies and make accusations

pertaining to his national origin.

That's one of the hardest things,

because there was a lot of abuse in my house,

growing up with my mom and those scars are there,

but the scars of guilt are just as powerful,

and I can't take it back, I can't get time back,

and no matter how many times I tell myself

or someone else tells me, that there was nothing I could do,

that I was gonna be powerless to this campaign

of denigration, and thinking I need to tell somebody,

and the thought that would always stop me

was "Who's gonna listen?"

They don't listen to my dad, he's an adult.

"Who's gonna listen to a 10-year-old?

"And then what's gonna happen to me?

"They're not gonna give me to my dad

"and I don't even know if I know him anymore.

"What if some of the stuff my mom says is true?

"What if I'm wrong?

"I'm just a kid."

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-Ginger After half a decade in Family Court,

a drastic ruling, no contact between the father and any

of the children until family therapy had been completed.

As the courts often don't diagnose alienation,

the judgment made the local papers,

which published the entire 120 page ruling.

- The ruling was made that he should enter

a family reunification program,

and have temporary no communication with the father.

I believe that the father had no intention

on Brandyn participating in the program,

and so there were plans made for him to leave.

- We get a phone call, he's in England.

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-Ginger After the ruling Brandyn

ran away from home at age 16.

His father claimed he didn't know where he was,

but he was given money and a passport,

and resurfaced in a family friend's home

in the UK, his father's birthplace.

- He wanted all the orders dropped, for him

to be able to just go straight back to his dad's house.

That would be the only way he would come back.

I'm going to read the Cafcass report

from Child Protection Services in the UK.

"Brandyn said nothing that helped

"in my understanding of what has caused

"the breakdown of his relationship with his mother."

The judge in England decided that he could stay there

and he would be made ward of the court, and that

she could not force him to get on the plane to come back.

- What a stupid judge, you basically just ruined my life.

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- It is just like a death.

You completely lose your child, but it never ends.

It's like walking around with a knife in your heart

and it just keeps getting twisted.

- My sister was very similar to my mom

and she became very angry, and hated my father.

- Growing up we never had that relationship as brothers.

- My dad basically took my little

sister away and he moved away.

- I haven't seen my brother probably

since I was one and a half or two.

- After I hit like five, I didn't

see them again until she was 18.

I just remember when my dad got a phone call

from the two of them, orchestrated by somebody else,

saying that they didn't wanna see us anymore,

and I took it personally, I had this permanent idea

that my sisters didn't wanna be in my life.

I tried to reach out to Cheylsea on three separate occasions

and she told me she didn't want anything to do with me.

-Ginger Did she give you a reason?

- She didn't give me a reason.

- I never knew that.

- Yeah.

How old were you?

- I was 10.

- I never knew that.

I'm sorry.

- It's okay.

-Ashlynn What did your message say?

- "I'm Carala, your little sister and I miss you."

delicate piano music

-Ashlynn The last time I spoke to my older sister was

through a message that I sent to her on social media.

- She'd been at odds with mom and dad for a while.

There was something she said that just rubbed me

the wrong way, and I just shot her a message

and let her know, "That really upsets me.

"I'm uncomfortable with this, I need some space."

Just because I needed not to be a part of that,

and she put it on my mom as you know,

"This is you telling Cheylsea what to do.

"This is you pulling Cheylsea away."

The Facebook post, it was like a picture of an angry woman

and it was something about, go ahead and disagree

with me, I'll just say you beat me

and you'll never see your kids again.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree

that there's always a bias in a divorce court.

Sometimes the men are made to look like the bad guys.

It really sucks, but he kept deflecting

this towards my mother, it made me angry,

and I let him know, "Hey, I don't appreciate

"you talking about me like this.

"I don't appreciate you talking about my mother like this.

"I am my own person.

"I have my own life up here.

"I have Robert, who's raised me and I consider him

"my father and I'm sorry, but that's that."

somber music

- My parents fought about everything

from, who pays for this sport?

- They are the kind of people to fight over money, a lot.

- My dad wasn't helping whatsoever and my mom

was like, "No, you have four kids."

- Decided to file child support and that takes

most of his money out of his check,

'cause he's working at a grocery store.

So what is that, you know, nothing.

motorcycle hums

- I was childish, immature, and angry.

You're not gonna let me see my kids,

I'm not gonna give you the money,

and it took 'em about three or four months

to find me and garnish my wages,

and I got $12.45 that paycheck, $2.05.

This is my favorite, I got a paycheck for zero.

I paid her off and now I'm paying California off.

The money that I'm paying goes directly to the state.

I mean, it could go for anything, garbage collecting,

pothole repairs, I have no idea.

I just know that the state continues to take money.

Not a dime of money that I pay out to child support goes

to any of my children, not a single penny.

I owed so much because they charge such

a large amount of interest, that it

just built up, and built up, and built up.

-Ginger Dizzy isn't the only parent

who found himself in debt to the child support system.

The child support system can lead to parents being erased.

Child support creates a financial incentive

for parents to fight for more parenting time.

In many jurisdictions more custody time means

more child support, with even one

extra night making a huge difference.

States also earn more federal dollars to enforce

child support and if shared parenting means

no child support then there's a disincentive

to grant joint custody or to make it the default option.

A parent can lose their driver's license, passport,

and even be incarcerated for not paying child support,

but because it's civil court,

you have no right to a public defender.

And the worst part?

In many cases the support doesn't go to the kids.

The state keeps flat fees, percentages,

interest payments, and will hold on to all of it,

if the custodial parent receives welfare.

The billions of dollars spent on child support

enforcement could be spent on programs

that help families, like mediation,

mental health services, and enforcing custody orders.

birds chirp

- We are at the Shasta County Child Support Division Office

to make my final payment on child support.

machine whirs

That's it.

laughs

I am over this freaking place and if they weren't

so nice I would drop two fingers up at this building.

engine revs

- No one comes out saying, "I wanna be a bad parent.

"I wanna be a bad dad."

Life circumstances as well as things that happen

to them do that and most of that is about economics.

engaging dramatic music

You know, we have to change our perception

and our vision of fathers.

- The idea of the deadbeat, especially the deadbeat dad

is an outdated and incorrect idea.

- Anybody in here wanna share a situation where they're

paying child support but they're not able

to see their children as much as they would like to?

- All in all for all my kids I pay $1175

a month in child support and I have

seen my twins two times in nine months.

- I wasn't really able to put up much of a fight in court

because I was making 30 bucks every two weeks.

- These fathers are not deadbeat, they're dead broke.

- When I speak to some men vent their frustrations

about the child support system and why they're angry,

I explain to them that child support is a business.

If you don't pay your child support you're gonna go to jail.

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- We heard from dozens of parents who said this state's

child support system is broken and failing families.

-Reporter Turner paid a total of $1,935

in child support, but "News 5 Investigates"

learned his ex only received $1386, and while

the Department of Human Services would not tell us

specifically where it was deposited,

they did tell us they kept it.

-Reporter The officer told him he's a deadbeat dad.

He's under arrest.

- The system of child support and how we put that

into place are barriers to successfully

having fathers involved with their children's lives.

That's not the intent, but that's certainly the result.

barbershop banter over child support

- 'Cause you're back on your child support.

- Yeah.

- I'm a parent, married, two children and my responsibility

as a parent never goes away whether I'm working or not.

You can't have a child and not

take care of your responsibility.

- When it came to Walter, my brother's situation.

My mother damn had rescued him several times.

-Barber From?

- Picking up his rear in child support.

They paid it up, caught it up,

and he would always get back behind again,

even when he was continually paying.

Walter may have been behind in his child support payments,

but he was involved and active in his children's lives.

His children were staying and visiting him,

the weekend that he was actually murdered.

- The other big story we're covering tonight,

the police shooting death of an apparently unarmed man.

-Reporter Today in north Charleston,

the anger boiled over.

- We just want this thing to change,

so that no other family would have

to suffer the way my family is suffering right now.

-Holt The deadly encounter between Walter Scott

and Police Officer Michael Slager

began with a traffic stop for a broken tail light.

-Reporter It was a fateful decision,

the moment Walter Scott decided to bolt from his car.

- There's no justification for what I see on that video.

gun shots fire

- I don't know why Walter ran.

He took that to the grave with him, but I think that's

where the child support may have played a part.

It wasn't like he was trying to hurt his children.

He was caught up in the system.

-Reporter A warrant had been issued for Scott's arrest.

Court documents show he owed more

than $18000 in child support payments.

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- Can you get a court-appointed attorney

to represent you in a child support case?

-Anthony No, no, no.

- Only in a criminal case.

It's about access.

-Anthony Access and money.

- But does the judge give the father information

about what his rights are as a father?

- No, no, there's 40 people in there.

He's moving cases in and out.

He ain't got time for education.

- And you have no idea that you can get

joint custody, shared custody--

-Anthony Nothing, no.

- That's not their job.

The ultimate goal in Family Court should be what?

The child's best interests.

-Barber To preserve the family.

- Yes.

- But if the dad is not in the child's life,

how is that preserving the family?

- Because I don't think the court system

is created to preserve families.

- No, it's not.

- I think the court system is created

to make it more punitive to parents.

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- Once he got out, the child support

was still being due but he was not able to pay

because he lost his job for being arrested.

How does the system expect you

to catch up when you're locked up.

melancholic piano music

He'd already been arrested twice

prior to him getting murdered.

I believe Walter was not a deadbeat dad.

After paying 1000s of dollars back,

then still being behind, there was no catching up.

So what do you do?

I don't think a man should have to die

or feel so upset about the child support system

that you don't care and you're gonna run for your life.

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- I didn't have the father figure in my life.

I didn't know how to be a man.

- If he was really present in my life,

I would probably not be chasing boys.

- As far as relationships go,

I have a lot of trust issues now.

- I don't see the point in allowing to someone to get close

to you if the end of the day they're just going to hurt you.

- It caused a lot of depression, anger.

- I just kept calling him dead because he was never there.

-Ginger How would the lives of these children

been different if the courts assumed

that both parents should be equally involved?

bright engaging music

- A new bill making its way through Lansing,

would make default custody 50/50,

for both the mother and a father following a divorce.

- Public support for it is huge.

The legislators told me that they had more calls

to support the Shared Parenting Bill

than they did the football stadium.

- The bill sets the stage so a child,

which is in their best interest.

- Their both responsibility is the best for the children.

- It presumes both parents are fit.

- We need more clarity in law to support

what is best for children, shared parenting,

and this helps move in that direction.

- In any family, whether it's a man and man,

women and women, it doesn't matter.

There's a ying and a yang and that's

what makes a family work.

- A default shared parenting plan would be when two people

are separating it would be presumed that both parents

will have an equal role in terms

of decision-making and custody with their children.

If there is abuse, or some other problem,

then you would have a custody evaluation happen.

We now have abundant research that shows that children

do much better if they have shared parenting.

- It's even more important for children who are going

through a divorce to have a healthy relationship

with both parents because it buffers them from the conflict.

- We just assumed that children

who moved 50 times a year would be more stressed

than those who live only with one parent.

- The packing did suck, but I got them every other week,

and now looking back I appreciate it a lot more.

- I am convinced that the Swedish system

where you don't have any money to gain

from a divorce is beneficial for children.

We have a system where very few separating couples

go to court, most people just solve this between themselves.

- We have this form.

It's an agreement that we share the custody of our son.

- You just print it out, sign it, and send it.

-Man We don't have to go to court,

or hire a lawyer, or anything to do this.

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-Ginger In Malmo, Sweden, sisters Eleanor

and Anna have spent equal time with their parents

since they separated over 15 years ago.

- We have two different lives more or less.

You know you have life with mum and your house with mum,

and then you've got your life with dad.

I find that very fun.

bright music

- In Sweden, it's not really a decision.

It's very hard to remove the guardianship from one parent.

That parent has to be really, really unfit.

Otherwise, you know, you're stuck with 'em.

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- What parents discuss in Sweden when they split up

is how the children should live more than money.

- It's obviously not perfect.

If one of the parents doesn't want to cooperate

and makes it difficult then they're always going to do that.

But, if the basis of the law is going to be split-evenly

and both parents are gonna be involved,

then at least you have a better starting point.

- Think about the child.

It's not just what you want.

It's what they're going to grow up with

and what they're going to have,

and this is their life too, it's not just yours.

- The great news is also that if the marriage itself

was more conflictual but you learn to get

along better afterwards, kids do much better.

If default shared parenting became the norm,

the legal system could be more focused on things

that really are significant, document the child abuse cases.

It would be wonderful if people thought this is sort

of where we're starting and only if we prove

that we cannot do it, that's when we have

to move to this adversarial process.

It would really change the face

of how people manage divorces.

-Ginger When parents can't reach an agreement

on their own, mediation can provide an alternative

to a courtroom trial and help them work together

in the best interests of their children.

- My theory on litigation is if any custody case gets

in front of a judge, there is a mental health problem.

Either one or both of the litigants

have mental health issues or possibly the lawyers do.

- If you spend two or three days saying everything bad

you can think of about the other person,

and I award some sort of a joint custody arrangement.

It's hard to undo the damage and have

people walk out and parent together.

Baltimore County decided to put on court staff,

mediators who worked just in the courthouse,

just doing court mediation.

I don't know of another court that has on staff mediators

that can provide high-quality outcomes.

- She'll make some recommendations,

which helpfully assist the family in resolving it amicably,

and without the need to try the case in court.

- I've seen it many times where

parents go in angry, aggressive--

- I don't tell them that you're a drunk.

They know you are.

- Yes you do, stop.

- What is it that would help you to move forward?

-Mary And by the end of a mediation session

they're actually helping each other.

- I mean at the end of the day you'll have a trial

and a judge will make a decision.

Somebody always feels like they won.

Somebody feels like they lost.

They don't buy into the outcome.

It's not the best way to get to a good result.

You want a child to have as good a relationship

as they can have with both parents

and you want it to be as smooth as you can make it.

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- There's a lot of incentives to keep things

the way they are, particularly

by the American Bar Association and other folks.

- There's a lot of money in divorce,

and with shared parenting there's less conflict,

less conflict, fewer billable hours.

- Pay up and you're on your way

to get ridding of that vermin you call a spouse.

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- There's very real potential for this state

to lose federal funding, and I'm talking millions,

possibly 100s of millions of dollars.

This issue has not been addressed

by those in favor of this law.

- What's in the best interest of the kid is not

to worry about how much federal dollars

we're gonna get from food stamps in this country.

That's ridiculous.

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- I represent the Family Law Foundation.

The Foundation is respectfully against the bill.

- In Florida, when the bill advanced though the Senate,

and the House, and was on its way to the Governor,

the Bar Association spent $11000

to hire emergency lobbyists to defeat the bill.

In North Dakota, they've been sued and lost,

because they misused $70000 to run an advertising campaign

against a shared parenting ballot measure.

-Protestors Sign the bill!

Sign the bill!

-Ginger Until the system is redesigned to help families,

Ashlynn, Lauren, Brian, and countless others

will attempt to heal their families on their own.

- My advice to parents divorcing with kids

is to be respectful to each other

and watch how you act around your children.

- I would ask her if she could keep my siblings

and I out of it, I know she didn't do it intentionally.

- They need to always let the child know

that there's love and support no matter what happens.

- To just be there for your kids.

- Don't be afraid to ask for help.

- By the way, I have a new line

of essential oils I'm carrying.

- I was right in the middle of doing a hair coloring.

I turn around and there's my wife Kelli

and my other daughter Carala, and then I saw her.

- And he dropped his hair dryer and just ran to me.

And, we both started crying.

And, the whole salon started clapping.

Like everybody knew the story.

- It was like a scene out of a movie.

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- It was awesome.

It was probably one of the best moments of my life.

delicate piano music

It's amazing living with my dad.

He's great.

- Do you want toast?

- Yes, thanks.

- He is someone that I can always talk to.

He's nothing like I was told he was,

not even in the slightest.

- I'll go through anything and everything with you,

side-by-side, just like I said,

when you decide to get your GED and we do it,

I'll go with you and I'll do it too.

My daughter here and I have been alienated

from each other for the majority of her life.

She called me and said, "Dad it's to move home."

And, she came home.

Well, I made the mistake when she was 10-years-old

to sign my rights away, I never got to see them again.

- Which was part of the deal.

- Yeah.

In about 10 minutes we're gonna leave

for the courthouse to file paperwork,

so I can legally re-adopt my daughter.

So she will be my daughter once

again in the eyes of the law.

Whereas in our hearts we know and it doesn't matter,

she's my little girl, if something was to happen

she wants to make sure that myself and her step-mom,

soon to be on the paperwork, her adopted mom,

will be the ones to make those tough choices

if they ever need to be made.

- I think she's always gonna be my mom

and I'm always gonna love her.

It's just she kind of lost the title of mom.

- To just wanna totally cut out one set

and go with other set, it was hard.

After a while I felt like since I had kind of done

a similar thing maybe I just need to back off

and give it some time and go from there.

-Ginger If you could talk to her

right now, what would you tell her?

- If I could talk to her right now?

I don't even know what I would say.

I would just be so happy that's she's talking to me.

- Sometimes when you see children as they grow up,

choose a side, perhaps even going towards the parent

that they didn't grow up with and rejecting

the parent that they did grow up with,

what they're trying to do is avoid conflict.

It would be great if they could find a way

to have relationships with both parents

and as they grow up be able to explain to both parents,

"I'm not getting in the middle of this.

"I'm going to have a relationship with both of you

"and I don't wanna hear it," basically.

But, I don't think that all children feel

that assertive, even as they grow up.

-Ginger After a decade together, Brian's dad, Rick,

and his step-mom Karyn, divorced.

Once again, Brian found himself torn between two parents.

- I believe I was about 22 when Karyn and Rick got divorced.

For the first few months of the separation

I would flip flop, be like, "No, my dad's right

"so I need to stand by his side.

"I need to be loyal to him."

And then I'd be like, "Karyn's right.

"I need to stay by her."

I think after so many months I realized

it was just tearing me apart, and that's when I was like

I'm not gonna deal with their shit.

door knocks

- Hey baby, how are you?

- I think that's probably why I was able

to have that relationship with Caroline as well.

It's like I can choose this relative,

what some people call loyalty, or I could choose

the relative, having my own independent relationships.

-Caroline Guess who that is?

- I don't now, he's a good-looking kid.

- Yeah.

- So, I'm guessing me.

Now, that we do have a relationship I look to try

to find some of those good memories,

and it's been exceedingly difficult.

Seeing these, I feel like I don't remember any of 'em.

- It had nothing to do with you.

I wanted to get down there and there were times

where your dad and Karyn would tell me

that either you didn't want me to come down,

or you had stuff going on, I wasn't able to force myself

in there 'cause they wouldn't let me.

- I think that where I sit as the child,

I wanted you there to have someone nearby,

knowing that I could go there when I was ready to.

Does that make sense?

- Yeah, I didn't know that you felt that way.

I didn't think you wanted me there.

- I can understand what you're saying and I get it,

as an adult you have to think about taking care

of yourself and trying to figure it out and move on.

It's like, how far do you push?

- At one point, your step-mom sent me some pictures

that we had taken with us in it

and she cut me out of the pictures,

and sent me the other part back with a note

that said, "Thought you might want these, K."

And it destroyed me and it broke my heart,

and I didn't know what to do.

- It's not liked I'd cut her out of 'em, 'cause obviously

in the photo album there's lots of pictures of her.

The people that I was with were just like,

"Oh, well just throw 'em away."

And I was like, "No, that's kinda weird.

"Like, I'm just gonna send 'em back to her."

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- I've judged you guys.

I've judged all of you for different actions

and it's like we still don't always mesh at the same time

and we have our disagreements, but I learn more

from those than I do from being alone

and I don't like that more than having

to go through it and just forgive and move on.

- Life right now is just forgiving and moving on?

- It's so much easier just not dealing with people's shit.

- Yeah.

I don't know if I ever had a desire to win,

because I didn't feel like I ever could,

but I did have a desire at some point to be right.

All that stuff doesn't matter anymore.

What matters is where we're at right now.

engaging music

I think that was the best thing

that happened to me in a really long time.

- Hearing me--

-Caroline Hearing you call me mom.

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-Ginger Why are you trying to talk

to your brother so much if he's so rude?

- I'm trying to talk to my brother because

he's my brother and I miss him, and I love him,

and I'm trying to convince him to snap out of it.

- She feels like her only solution is to try

and talk to her brother and convince him to come back.

clock ticks

- "My actions do not put me in the wrong,

"as your mom has caused me so much trouble over the years.

"I want a relationship but if you cannot respect

"that I don't want anything to do with her,

"then we will have to wait until you're older to talk."

I said, "It kinda seems like you

hate mom more than you love me."

I did have to grow up a bit faster and cope with

all these big words like alienation.

"You can tell mom that I now have this conversation

"of proof that you've been alienated against me.

"I think I might send this to my lawyer,

"because I'm not alienated, you are.

I said, "Why can't we just be normal siblings

"and talk about normal things, even though

"we aren't normal why can't we pretend like we are?"

engaging dramatic music

clock ticks

- I never believed this could be possible, to be here today,

Ash you don't just live here, today we get to fix the wrong.

- I forgive that she doesn't care and I've moved on

from that and I just have no interest on the subject.

But, it's different when you're a dad.

- I don't know.

I have to focus on the daughters that are here,

that need their dad, that want their dad.

So, that's where my focus is.

All right we're off.

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-Ashlynn I'm writing this letter regarding a legal

adult adoption between by step-mother and my birth father.

-Dizzy My biggest fear here is that

because I signed my rights away the judge

is gonna look at this case a little bit differently.

- My birth mother alienated me

from my birth father for over a decade.

- I mean, I'm a father that "voluntarily"

relinquished my parental rights,

and now I'm trying to get 'em back.

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How are you doing?

- You know what, I am preparing myself for anything,

because I mean there's an order of protection

in place right now and that's on my record.

They run my name, they see an order of protection

and it's gonna list who it is.

It's gonna list the children.

What if the judge says no, I can't even think about that.

- This adoption is the missing piece in my puzzle,

not the ending to my story but a new beginning.

Sincerely, Ashlynn Marie Lerner.

-Judge Gibson Well thanks, so congratulations.

cheering

- Thank you, your Honor.

-Judge Gibson I'm glad you all got back together.

- Me too!

Thank you.

- Thank you.

- How bout a picture?

You know, I do recall this Lerner case.

I think I may have had him in front of me

when I was in my family law assignment.

It was a very emotional adoption.

- I'm your new daughter.

- I love you so much.

- In family law we only address what is in front of us.

We don't go check up and say, "Hey, how did that work out?"

We're so busy and there's just no avenue to do that.

We expect that if people are having problems then they are

to bring that issue to court so we can address it.

-Ginger What if getting help to reunite

with your raised child didn't depend

on you going back to family court, hiring a lawyer,

or navigating a complex legal process on your own?

What if all the resources spent on child support enforcement

and adversarial court trials were spent on promoting

shared parenting, affordable mediation,

and access to mental health services?

Until then, children like Ashlynn, Lauren, Brian, and Candis

are reaching out to erased family members on their own.

With no help or resources, the results can be bittersweet.

- It's weird when I think about the fact that Ashlynn

and I don't legally have the same parents,

but I know she's still my sister.

-Ginger Filming these kids has taught me

that even a parent isn't perfect and none are,

erasing a parent does lasting harm.

We need to stop assigning blame and start helping

parents to be in their kids' lives.

- It has been eight months seen I've seen my children.

It's been over four years since I've been able to hug them,

hold their hand, or take their picture.

- I haven't seen my sisters for four and a half years.

- I haven's seen my daughters for more than five years.

- I haven't seen her in almost two years.

- My son here, who's three-years-old

has not been able to meet his two other siblings, so--

- He left me when I was a baby.

- We wanted to tell you how much we miss you.

- I want him to know how much his dad loves him.

- I just wanted to share some of the pain that I felt.

- I love them and I'm here for them.

- We were best friends.

- I want you to come home.

- And I wanna just see your smile again.

- And I'm sad to say I'm an erased mommy.

- I'm an erased dad.

- I'm an erased sister.

- And I do believe that one day we will reunite.

engaging dramatic music

delicate folk music

♪ I took my time getting off that plane ♪

♪ Thought to myself, is this a good idea or just insane ♪

♪ All this way for a man I've never met ♪

♪ His name ain't even on my birth certificate ♪

♪ He's nervous too, I bet ♪

♪ So much inside me I would like to say ♪

♪ But I'll just say, Hey ♪

♪ Standing in this baggage zone ♪

♪ I couldn't feel any more alone ♪

♪ Is this the way she felt ♪

♪ The last 18 years ♪

♪ Thinking I chose not to be around ♪

♪ I had no idea until she found me ♪

♪ And now she's standing here ♪

♪ I didn't want to let the words get in the way ♪

♪ So I just said, Hey ♪

♪ Hey, I'm glad to finally meet you ♪

♪ Share my story, what I've been through ♪

♪ To find the part of me that I never knew ♪

♪ Time and distance seem so small now ♪

♪ Kinda takes my breath away ♪

♪ How much of me I see when I look at you ♪

♪ A new chapter in my life began today ♪

♪ When you said, Hey ♪

♪ I know that this must be so hard for you ♪

♪ I think it's so brave that you asked me to ♪

♪ I wasn't sure of the right thing to do ♪

♪ Til I heard that little word then I knew ♪

♪ Hey, I'm glad to finally meet you ♪

♪ Share my story what I've been through ♪

♪ To find the part of me that I never knew ♪

♪ Time and distance seem so small now ♪

♪ Kinda takes my breath away ♪

♪ How much of me I see when I look at you ♪

♪ A new chapter in my life began today ♪

♪ When you said, Hey ♪

♪ A new world opened up for me today ♪

♪ When you said, Hey ♪