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MIKE AFRICA JR. I've been livin'
in a prison for 38 years
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00:00:13,709 --> 00:00:15,583
because my mother and father
are both in prison.
5
00:00:15,667 --> 00:00:17,041
Four minutes of gunfire,
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00:00:17,125 --> 00:00:19,291
one policeman killed,
and members of group MOVE
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00:00:19,375 --> 00:00:20,917
have been routed
from their house.
8
00:00:21,375 --> 00:00:23,166
So, this would have been
her cell?
9
00:00:23,250 --> 00:00:24,083
Yeah.
10
00:00:24,750 --> 00:00:27,166
The MOVE organization
experienced so much hate
11
00:00:27,250 --> 00:00:29,000
and anger from the system.
12
00:00:29,083 --> 00:00:31,291
What can I do about that
except just keep on pushin'?
13
00:08:29,083 --> 00:08:32,250
Bishop Gerardi was
the parish priest
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00:08:32,333 --> 00:08:34,333
at the church of San Sebastián
15
00:08:34,417 --> 00:08:37,834
in an old historic center
of Guatemala City.
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00:08:37,917 --> 00:08:40,542
It's location is
super interesting
17
00:08:40,625 --> 00:08:45,417
because it's only blocks
from the, uh, National Palace,
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00:08:45,500 --> 00:08:48,542
uh, the Presidential...
you know, offices.
19
00:08:48,625 --> 00:08:51,291
Uh, the... It's inside
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00:08:51,375 --> 00:08:53,917
what they call
the security perimeter.
21
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,542
It's also only a few blocks
away from the cathedral,
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00:08:56,625 --> 00:08:58,458
where the offices
of the archdiocese,
23
00:08:58,542 --> 00:09:00,917
office of human rights
were located.
24
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,041
San Sebastián is a, uh...
25
00:09:06,125 --> 00:09:08,875
old-fashioned
neighborhood parish.
26
00:09:08,959 --> 00:09:12,333
He shared his duties there
with another priest,
27
00:09:12,417 --> 00:09:14,000
Father Mario Orantes.
28
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,875
Why would they kill someone
as eminent as Bishop Gerardi?
29
00:09:45,959 --> 00:09:48,375
A 78-year-old bishop,
30
00:09:48,458 --> 00:09:52,417
two days after he's released
this human rights report
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00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:55,458
that has captured
the world's attention.
32
00:09:55,542 --> 00:09:59,333
Given Guatemala's history,
everyone's going to assume
33
00:09:59,417 --> 00:10:00,542
it was the army that did it.
34
00:10:00,625 --> 00:10:02,417
That's gonna be...
that's what I first thought
35
00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:03,583
when I first heard it.
36
00:10:03,667 --> 00:10:05,667
You know, everybody
was gonna react that way.
37
00:10:05,750 --> 00:10:07,875
This is a country
that had just come out of
38
00:10:07,959 --> 00:10:12,000
more than 35 years of war.
It signed peace accords.
39
00:10:12,083 --> 00:10:16,083
And so for him to be murdered
in the way he was,
40
00:10:16,166 --> 00:10:19,917
a lot of people really felt that
it was gonna restart the war.
41
00:11:07,792 --> 00:11:10,917
Church and human rights leaders
fear the Bishop's murder
42
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,959
could jeopardize the work
they've been doing
43
00:11:13,041 --> 00:11:15,375
to uncover Guatemala's
savage past.
44
00:11:15,458 --> 00:11:18,250
That victims may now be
too scared to come forward
45
00:11:18,333 --> 00:11:19,583
with their stories.
46
00:11:19,667 --> 00:11:22,750
Too scared to fight to prosecute
the perpetrators of the crimes.
47
00:11:22,834 --> 00:11:25,917
Because they say, "If a bishop
who was searching for the truth
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00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,834
can be murdered,
then no one is safe."
49
00:11:28,917 --> 00:11:32,500
Joan Leishman, CBC News,
Guatemala City.
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00:11:59,875 --> 00:12:02,041
CLAUDIA MÉNDEZ ARRIAZA:
You will read the papers,
51
00:12:02,125 --> 00:12:04,458
you know,
see the TV news shows,
52
00:12:04,542 --> 00:12:07,792
and see a lot of voices
claiming for justice.
53
00:12:07,875 --> 00:12:11,166
The murderers cannot get away
with this murder.
54
00:12:11,250 --> 00:12:15,417
This murder happened inside
the security circle
55
00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:16,667
of Álvaro Arzú.
56
00:12:16,750 --> 00:12:18,583
I mean,
it happened two blocks away
57
00:12:18,667 --> 00:12:20,458
from the presidential house
58
00:12:20,542 --> 00:12:23,083
of the most powerful man
in Guatemala.
59
00:12:23,166 --> 00:12:27,375
So, you know, the intelligence
services must know something.
60
00:13:08,667 --> 00:13:12,250
Whether out of incompetence,
panic,
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00:13:12,333 --> 00:13:14,458
uh, some devious design,
62
00:13:14,542 --> 00:13:17,959
uh, the crime scene was very
seriously mishandled.
63
00:13:18,041 --> 00:13:21,458
If you were going to
make video to show
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00:13:21,542 --> 00:13:26,458
future forensics people
how not to handle a crime scene,
65
00:13:26,542 --> 00:13:29,208
I guess you could show them
a video of what happened there
66
00:13:29,291 --> 00:13:30,667
that night.
67
00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:33,125
They did everything wrong.
68
00:13:33,208 --> 00:13:35,250
When they did finally
get around to putting up
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00:13:35,333 --> 00:13:37,458
yellow security tape,
it was way too small
70
00:13:37,542 --> 00:13:40,291
and protected too little space
and it was just--
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00:13:40,375 --> 00:13:41,625
People were allowed
to just come in
72
00:13:41,709 --> 00:13:44,458
and literally tramp blood
all over the place.
73
00:13:44,542 --> 00:13:47,125
'Cause imagine what
a bloody crime scene it was
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00:13:47,208 --> 00:13:48,583
and anyone that came
into the garage
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00:13:48,667 --> 00:13:50,792
and walked anywhere else
in the house was gonna be
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00:13:50,875 --> 00:13:52,125
tramping blood around.
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00:13:52,208 --> 00:13:54,583
So the crime scene itself,
in terms of
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00:13:54,667 --> 00:13:57,834
the kind of forensics
you expect were gone.
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00:15:15,291 --> 00:15:18,083
The first thing
and the first hypothesis
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00:15:18,166 --> 00:15:22,125
that you're tempted to think of
is it's political.
81
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,333
But as an investigator,
you have to try and--
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00:15:31,417 --> 00:15:33,875
you really have to try hard
to remove that
83
00:15:33,959 --> 00:15:35,750
from your thought process
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00:15:35,834 --> 00:15:38,375
and you have to go through
the evidence
85
00:15:38,458 --> 00:15:40,625
and you have to follow
the evidence.
86
00:15:40,709 --> 00:15:44,250
So in those first days,
as we were all sad,
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00:15:44,333 --> 00:15:45,583
we were all shocked,
88
00:15:45,667 --> 00:15:48,333
but on those
first days of the investigation,
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00:15:48,417 --> 00:15:50,792
we talked a lot
about being objective
90
00:15:50,875 --> 00:15:54,000
and to follow the evidence
and to follow the leads.
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00:16:27,041 --> 00:16:30,208
RUBÉN CHANAX:
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00:17:22,834 --> 00:17:25,208
Monsignor Gerardi was killed
on a Sunday.
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00:17:25,291 --> 00:17:30,333
Monday, some, um, media outlets
already had theories
94
00:17:30,417 --> 00:17:32,417
of what happened.
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00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:36,166
ARTURO AGUILÁR: Theory about
this being a crime of passion.
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00:18:12,417 --> 00:18:17,083
People got confused,
and they're confused even today.
97
00:18:17,166 --> 00:18:18,834
I mean, just go out...
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00:18:19,625 --> 00:18:21,917
to any Guatemalan in the street
99
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,750
and ask,
"Who killed the bishop?"
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00:18:24,834 --> 00:18:29,000
I mean, they are confused.
They can't say, like,
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00:18:29,083 --> 00:18:31,417
"Oh, it was
in a homosexual thing.
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00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:34,166
There were things going on
inside the church."
103
00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:36,375
Or, "It was a gang."
104
00:18:36,458 --> 00:18:40,291
I mean, they don't have
an idea of, you know,
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00:18:40,375 --> 00:18:42,583
what was the real cause.
106
00:21:02,166 --> 00:21:06,041
I think Bishop Gerardi always
represented justice to people.
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00:21:06,125 --> 00:21:08,667
in a country where there was
no justice.
108
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:13,333
I think he represented
a figure of authority and power
109
00:21:13,417 --> 00:21:14,750
who would listen to people
110
00:21:14,834 --> 00:21:17,542
in a country where nobody
who had authority and power
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00:21:17,625 --> 00:21:18,750
would listen to anybody.
112
00:21:18,834 --> 00:21:22,417
And when the archbishop's
office of human rights,
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00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:27,667
ODHA, gets established in 1989,
which is to say,
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00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:29,709
through all those long years
of the war,
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00:21:29,792 --> 00:21:31,875
Guatemala had basically
been without
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00:21:31,959 --> 00:21:33,625
consequential human rights
groups.
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00:21:33,709 --> 00:21:35,625
Whenever one would form,
118
00:21:35,709 --> 00:21:38,834
either their leaders
would be murdered,
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00:21:38,917 --> 00:21:40,834
or chased into exile.
120
00:21:40,917 --> 00:21:43,000
Uh, why was this different?
121
00:21:43,083 --> 00:21:44,500
Because it was the church.
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00:21:44,583 --> 00:21:46,625
The army can't move
against the church,
123
00:21:46,709 --> 00:21:50,625
and the church has incredible
reach throughout the country
124
00:21:50,709 --> 00:21:53,083
through all its parishes,
through all its churches,
125
00:21:53,166 --> 00:21:55,291
through all its people
who work for the church.
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00:21:55,375 --> 00:21:58,083
It has trust in all
the communities, basically.
127
00:21:58,166 --> 00:22:00,750
And because of that,
this human rights group
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00:22:00,834 --> 00:22:03,166
is capable of doing
what no other group
129
00:22:03,250 --> 00:22:06,083
had ever been able to do,
which is sort of gather
130
00:22:06,166 --> 00:22:08,750
information from everywhere.
131
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,166
REMHI was the first
132
00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:34,375
really ambitious
full accounting
133
00:25:34,458 --> 00:25:38,000
of the human rights violations
of the war
134
00:25:38,083 --> 00:25:40,333
that anybody had attempted.
135
00:25:40,417 --> 00:25:43,750
The army and the powers that be
in this country
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00:25:43,834 --> 00:25:47,959
never thought it could amount
to what it amounted to,
137
00:25:48,041 --> 00:25:52,875
never foresaw
such a thorough undertaking.
138
00:25:52,959 --> 00:25:55,333
In the end,
it was a four-volume report.
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00:25:55,417 --> 00:25:58,792
They identified specifically,
you know,
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00:25:58,875 --> 00:26:01,667
something like 435 massacres.
141
00:26:01,750 --> 00:26:06,583
The final volume lists by name
50,000 of the war dead.
142
00:26:06,667 --> 00:26:13,041
It had extraordinary volumes
dedicated to unprecedented
143
00:26:13,125 --> 00:26:15,834
investigation and analysis
144
00:26:15,917 --> 00:26:21,083
of how various military units
had operated.
145
00:26:22,959 --> 00:26:24,542
The conclusions of the report
146
00:26:24,625 --> 00:26:26,417
were that the
military committed
147
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:30,458
far and away the vast majority
of atrocities in the war.
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00:26:36,125 --> 00:26:38,458
The report had made it seem
149
00:26:38,542 --> 00:26:41,583
that this terrible reign
of silence and terror
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00:26:41,667 --> 00:26:43,250
could finally be broken.
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00:26:43,333 --> 00:26:46,375
Let the truth be known,
which is incredibly liberating.
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NEVER AGAIN
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00:26:47,625 --> 00:26:49,166
WE CONDEMN THE MURDER
OF MONSIGNOR JUAN GERARDI
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Bishop Gerardi spoke publicly
155
00:26:50,709 --> 00:26:52,542
about the importance
of having that hope
156
00:26:52,625 --> 00:26:58,709
and the importance of at least
creating some conditions.
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00:26:58,792 --> 00:27:02,041
by which justice
could be achieved.
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00:27:45,583 --> 00:27:49,583
they had a fight,
and the other man kills Gerardi.
159
00:28:49,083 --> 00:28:53,709
The prosecutor's office
thought that Father Mario
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00:28:53,792 --> 00:28:59,333
had, um, sort of a relationship
with Monsignor Gerardi,
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00:28:59,417 --> 00:29:02,875
and that because of
that relationship
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00:29:02,959 --> 00:29:07,041
they had gotten into
an argument, into a dispute,
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00:29:07,125 --> 00:29:10,375
and it escalated all the way up
164
00:29:10,458 --> 00:29:14,917
as for Mario Orantes,
Father Mario, to sic his dog
165
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,583
on Monsignor Gerardi.
166
00:29:52,959 --> 00:29:55,208
Balú's arrest really did turn
167
00:29:55,291 --> 00:29:58,667
this incredibly grave murder
168
00:29:58,750 --> 00:30:02,792
into a carnival,
into an incredible show.
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00:30:02,875 --> 00:30:05,000
People were just fascinated
by Balú.
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00:30:06,375 --> 00:30:08,583
Rather than talking about
the REMHI report,
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00:30:08,667 --> 00:30:12,208
people were...
talking and speculating about
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00:30:12,291 --> 00:30:14,834
the sex lives of the church.
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00:30:14,917 --> 00:30:17,291
Priests
and gay crimes of passion
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00:30:17,375 --> 00:30:20,166
and dogs and everything else.
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00:30:20,250 --> 00:30:24,458
Well, the story took off
because it had all the...
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00:30:24,542 --> 00:30:27,667
the elements you need
to entertain.
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00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:29,375
You have full entertainment.
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00:30:29,458 --> 00:30:31,750
Otto Ardón needed proof.
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00:30:31,834 --> 00:30:33,125
He took this to Spain.
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00:30:33,208 --> 00:30:37,542
To Spain's most revered
forensic anthropologist...
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00:30:37,625 --> 00:30:39,458
Dr. Jose Reverte Coma.
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00:30:42,625 --> 00:30:45,583
OTTO ARDÓN:
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00:30:54,625 --> 00:30:58,834
Ardón ordered a second autopsy
to resolve the question
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00:30:58,917 --> 00:31:00,875
of whether they were dog bites
or not.
185
00:31:00,959 --> 00:31:03,291
Because this was
so controversial,
186
00:31:03,375 --> 00:31:06,333
Jose Reverte Coma himself,
the great eminence,
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00:31:06,417 --> 00:31:09,125
was going to come
and conduct the autopsy
188
00:31:09,208 --> 00:31:13,583
and draw his own conclusions
to confirm his findings.
189
00:31:13,667 --> 00:31:15,417
Ardón certainly
seemed convinced
190
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:17,834
of the truth
of those accusations.
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00:31:24,750 --> 00:31:27,500
MÉNDEZ ARRIAZA:
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00:31:31,166 --> 00:31:36,250
You could hear people saying,
"Let this man rest in peace."
193
00:31:36,333 --> 00:31:39,500
It was unbelievable.
It was a shock
194
00:31:39,583 --> 00:31:42,542
to hear that
he had to be unburied
195
00:31:42,625 --> 00:31:45,291
to find out
if he was bitten by a dog.
196
00:31:47,458 --> 00:31:48,917
NEVER AGAIN
197
00:32:52,875 --> 00:32:56,000
The church needed
an internationally prestigious
198
00:32:56,083 --> 00:32:58,709
counterweight
to Dr. Jose Reverte Coma.
199
00:33:00,333 --> 00:33:01,875
They needed experts
200
00:33:01,959 --> 00:33:03,709
that you couldn't get
in Guatemala.
201
00:33:03,792 --> 00:33:07,000
They needed real experts,
gente de peso, you know?
202
00:33:07,083 --> 00:33:09,458
People whose names
would mean something
203
00:33:09,542 --> 00:33:11,417
and even raise eyebrows.
204
00:33:14,166 --> 00:33:18,125
I was contacted
by Amnesty International
205
00:33:18,208 --> 00:33:19,917
and the Catholic Church.
206
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,542
Rather different
than my usual clients.
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00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:32,000
We were in this cavernous space
208
00:33:32,083 --> 00:33:36,709
and there are 50, 60, 70
people, coming in, going out.
209
00:33:38,583 --> 00:33:43,500
And over it all
is this Spanish character.
210
00:33:43,583 --> 00:33:45,250
Coma was his name.
211
00:33:46,834 --> 00:33:49,667
He had
a really imperial presence
212
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:54,583
and fully anticipated he would
be always the final authority.
213
00:33:57,250 --> 00:33:58,792
And one of the first things
he does
214
00:33:58,875 --> 00:34:01,667
is he decides to remove
the fungus
215
00:34:01,750 --> 00:34:03,750
that is covering his face
216
00:34:03,834 --> 00:34:07,750
by scraping it away with
a scalpel, causing abrasions
217
00:34:07,834 --> 00:34:09,834
on the very skin
that you want to examine,
218
00:34:09,917 --> 00:34:12,834
destroying the possibility,
already difficult
219
00:34:12,917 --> 00:34:14,542
given the deterioration
of the body,
220
00:34:14,625 --> 00:34:17,458
of picking up serious
forensic evidence off of it.
221
00:34:19,083 --> 00:34:21,542
The dog has a canine,
222
00:34:21,625 --> 00:34:23,834
and it's the reason
we call these canine teeth.
223
00:34:23,917 --> 00:34:27,875
The dog has long canines
and small incisors,
224
00:34:27,959 --> 00:34:31,291
much more differentiated
than a person.
225
00:34:31,375 --> 00:34:34,709
So if, in fact,
the four little marks over, uh,
226
00:34:34,792 --> 00:34:37,250
the Bishop's left eye
227
00:34:37,917 --> 00:34:40,458
are made by a dog bite,
228
00:34:40,542 --> 00:34:43,750
then... and the incisor
is a part of that,
229
00:34:43,834 --> 00:34:46,750
then the canines would have to
penetrate through the skin,
230
00:34:46,834 --> 00:34:49,333
and penetrate into the skull.
231
00:34:49,417 --> 00:34:54,083
The skin is peeled back
and there are no marks at all
232
00:34:54,166 --> 00:34:55,458
on the skull,
233
00:34:55,542 --> 00:34:58,834
which means it could not
physically be a dog bite.
234
00:34:58,917 --> 00:35:00,959
You could not have the marks
on the skin
235
00:35:01,041 --> 00:35:03,250
without penetration through
the skull.
236
00:35:03,333 --> 00:35:05,291
At the end
of the second autopsy,
237
00:35:05,375 --> 00:35:09,333
it was clear that it had not
been dog bites,
238
00:35:09,417 --> 00:35:11,500
and I think that Ardón
at that point
239
00:35:11,583 --> 00:35:14,333
knew there was no way
you could take this to trial.
240
00:35:15,166 --> 00:35:16,667
He had lost all credibility.
241
00:35:17,667 --> 00:35:18,792
He knew it.
242
00:35:18,875 --> 00:35:22,750
And he had no other option left
other than to resign,
243
00:35:22,834 --> 00:35:24,333
which he did.
244
00:35:24,417 --> 00:35:26,166
The bottom line here is that...
245
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:29,667
the real murderer,
246
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:32,750
the real attack
has nothing to do with a dog,
247
00:35:32,834 --> 00:35:35,041
and is still out there
and the government has basically
248
00:35:35,125 --> 00:35:36,625
come up with a theory
that keeps them
249
00:35:36,709 --> 00:35:38,458
from having
to look for them.
250
00:36:03,834 --> 00:36:07,000
People had reason to be
suspicious of Father Mario
251
00:36:07,083 --> 00:36:10,000
early on,
in part because of something
252
00:36:10,083 --> 00:36:13,041
that the homeless witness
Rubén Chanax had said.
253
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:18,709
RUBÉN CHANAX:
254
00:36:37,542 --> 00:36:38,875
MÉNDEZ ARRIAZA:
255
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,208
We investigated the background
of Father Mario.
256
00:37:57,291 --> 00:38:00,875
We found a lot of information
about his connections
257
00:38:00,959 --> 00:38:03,458
and his connections
to the elite.
258
00:38:03,542 --> 00:38:05,750
To me, one of the most
striking things, for example,
259
00:38:05,834 --> 00:38:08,834
having grown up here,
and having partly grown up here,
260
00:38:08,917 --> 00:38:10,375
and having been around,
and having been here
261
00:38:10,458 --> 00:38:13,583
all through the '80's,
and being really...
262
00:38:13,667 --> 00:38:17,667
known way, um, right wing
upper class Guatemalans...
263
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:20,250
express things,
and what they mean to say,
264
00:38:20,333 --> 00:38:25,583
so when a week after
the murder, Father Mario says,
265
00:38:25,667 --> 00:38:26,959
the reason Bishop Gerardi
was killed
266
00:38:27,041 --> 00:38:29,291
was he was a jefe de todos
los guerrilleros.
267
00:38:29,375 --> 00:38:31,375
He was the chief of all
the guerrillas.
268
00:38:32,583 --> 00:38:34,083
That is... I can hear, like,
269
00:38:34,166 --> 00:38:36,125
my most right-wing aunt
saying that.
270
00:38:36,208 --> 00:38:38,500
That's exactly the kind of thing
they say.
271
00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:56,417
You know...
272
00:39:32,917 --> 00:39:36,959
He told us then the story about
how he was assigned
273
00:39:37,041 --> 00:39:40,000
to Monsignor Gerardi's case,
file 27.
274
00:39:40,083 --> 00:39:43,583
And how he, um,
kept the records,
275
00:39:43,667 --> 00:39:45,250
cassettes at that time,
276
00:39:45,333 --> 00:39:49,792
and how other members
of the intelligence community
277
00:39:49,875 --> 00:39:54,750
fed him information
and pictures and reports,
278
00:39:54,834 --> 00:39:57,375
and he kept all
the files together.
279
00:40:23,291 --> 00:40:28,750
Monsignor Gerardi was seen
as an enemy of the state.
280
00:40:31,333 --> 00:40:32,667
but way before.
281
00:45:01,625 --> 00:45:03,709
HISTORIC
CLARIFICATION COMMISSION
282
00:45:03,792 --> 00:45:06,041
GUATEMALA,
REMEMBERING THE SILENCE
283
00:45:54,458 --> 00:45:59,083
Now, you can declare an amnesty
as the Guatemalans did,
284
00:45:59,166 --> 00:46:01,875
for prosecutions for war crimes,
285
00:46:01,959 --> 00:46:05,291
but you cannot declare
an amnesty
286
00:46:05,375 --> 00:46:07,250
for a crime against humanity
like genocide.
287
00:46:07,333 --> 00:46:10,083
So, essentially that undid
the amnesty.
288
00:46:10,166 --> 00:46:14,875
But it didn't undo the fear
of trying to prosecute
289
00:46:14,959 --> 00:46:17,500
military officers
for war crimes.
290
00:50:16,458 --> 00:50:18,000
People were afraid again.
291
00:50:18,083 --> 00:50:20,875
Like when Monsignor was killed.
If they can kill Monsignor,
292
00:50:20,959 --> 00:50:22,083
they can kill anyone.
293
00:50:22,166 --> 00:50:24,750
If they can do this to
Ronalth Ochaeta,
294
00:50:24,834 --> 00:50:26,333
they can do it to anyone.
295
00:52:32,834 --> 00:52:35,709
And I confirmed
that he's a great investigator,
296
00:52:35,792 --> 00:52:38,875
has an acute mind,
and he's very great with details
297
00:52:38,959 --> 00:52:42,125
and he's really great
connecting dots.
298
00:52:58,875 --> 00:53:01,041
Rubén Chanax,
the homeless witness,
299
00:53:01,125 --> 00:53:04,709
is sort of the forgotten person
in this case up to this point.
300
00:53:04,792 --> 00:53:07,166
He has been
for the longest time now,
301
00:53:07,250 --> 00:53:10,000
in a kind of protective custody
302
00:53:10,083 --> 00:53:14,125
of the police, sitting
in these kind of pensiones,
303
00:53:14,208 --> 00:53:17,834
these sort of hotel flop houses
in the center.
304
00:53:17,917 --> 00:53:22,041
Strangely forgotten,
but yet they're keeping him.
305
00:53:22,125 --> 00:53:26,000
And probably they were getting
ready to let him go,
306
00:53:26,083 --> 00:53:27,458
I would guess,
307
00:53:27,542 --> 00:53:33,834
when Zeissig gets the case,
and Zeissig makes the decision
308
00:53:33,917 --> 00:53:36,500
that turns the Gerardi case
around really,
309
00:53:36,583 --> 00:53:39,458
and says, "Let's go take
another look at this witness."
310
00:55:18,375 --> 00:55:22,625
Cases like this don't rely
on a single piece of evidence
311
00:55:22,709 --> 00:55:24,667
or on a single testimony.
312
00:55:24,750 --> 00:55:27,458
Cases like this
are complex cases.
313
00:55:27,542 --> 00:55:32,583
So they rely on the integration
of information of several,
314
00:55:32,667 --> 00:55:35,083
many, many pieces of evidence.
315
00:56:16,125 --> 00:56:20,125
In the early days
of the investigation, a tip came
316
00:56:20,208 --> 00:56:24,041
and it was naming
the Lima family
317
00:56:24,125 --> 00:56:26,625
as-- as one, um...
318
00:56:28,041 --> 00:56:29,959
as people
that we should look into.
319
00:56:30,041 --> 00:56:33,417
It just was afterwards when...
320
00:56:34,417 --> 00:56:37,208
several other pieces
of information
321
00:56:37,291 --> 00:56:38,625
led up to that name.
322
00:58:27,041 --> 00:58:28,458
RUBÉN CHANAX:
323
01:00:13,333 --> 01:00:15,166
RUBÉN CHANAX:
324
01:00:37,583 --> 01:00:38,959
JORGE MANUEL AGUILAR MARTÍNEZ,
325
01:00:39,041 --> 01:00:41,917
A MILITARY EX-SPECIALIST OF
THE PRESIDENTIAL GUARD...
326
01:02:54,291 --> 01:02:57,542
MÉNDEZ ARRIAZA:
327
01:03:01,083 --> 01:03:05,875
The suspicion on Father Mario
has always been that he was...
328
01:03:07,458 --> 01:03:11,417
the person inside
the parish house,
329
01:03:11,500 --> 01:03:15,333
who opened the door to the man
who killed Gerardi.
330
01:03:19,375 --> 01:03:21,709
Colonel Byron Lima Estrada
331
01:03:21,792 --> 01:03:25,625
was one of the most notorious
figures of the war.
332
01:03:25,709 --> 01:03:29,000
He was your classic, um...
333
01:03:29,083 --> 01:03:33,667
gung-ho, uh,
insanely anti-communist,
334
01:03:34,542 --> 01:03:36,417
extreme right wing,
335
01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:39,333
very vocal military commander.
336
01:03:39,417 --> 01:03:44,417
But he had also been head
of G2 military intelligence
337
01:03:45,458 --> 01:03:46,709
at a time when
they were committing
338
01:03:46,792 --> 01:03:49,041
some horrible
human rights crimes.
339
01:03:56,417 --> 01:03:59,917
And his son,
Captain Byron Lima Oliva,
340
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:01,917
was a member of the EMP,
341
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,375
the President's bodyguards
and that intelligence unit.
342
01:04:10,083 --> 01:04:13,291
Which is the most feared unit
343
01:04:13,375 --> 01:04:17,041
of not only the Guatemalan army
but in Latin America.
344
01:04:18,750 --> 01:04:22,000
Sergeant Obdulio Villanueva,
he's working in the same unit
345
01:04:22,083 --> 01:04:23,333
than Captain Lima.
346
01:04:23,417 --> 01:04:27,041
Even though he's
a low-rank member of that unit,
347
01:04:27,125 --> 01:04:29,917
he's always next
to Captain Lima.
348
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:31,542
Like his right hand.
349
01:04:51,792 --> 01:04:52,917
ANOTHER MILITARY MAN CAPTURED
350
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:54,542
OBDULIO VILLANUEVA
EX-SPECIALIST TO THE EMP
351
01:04:54,625 --> 01:04:56,583
LINKED TO THE ASSASSINATION
OF GERARDI BY THE POLICE
352
01:05:31,208 --> 01:05:34,208
There were meetings and...
and discussions
353
01:05:34,291 --> 01:05:36,083
about how to keep everybody...
354
01:05:36,166 --> 01:05:37,834
or try to keep everybody safe.
355
01:05:37,917 --> 01:05:40,667
As soon as that witnesses
have given their declaration
356
01:05:40,750 --> 01:05:43,792
to the judge,
at which point, you know,
357
01:05:43,875 --> 01:05:46,917
it becomes known
that they've become witnesses,
358
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:48,625
they have to get out
of the country.
359
01:05:48,709 --> 01:05:49,917
They have to get them out.
360
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,333
The threat just felt so real.
361
01:07:00,250 --> 01:07:03,291
YASSMÍN BARRIOS:
362
01:08:54,959 --> 01:08:58,083
No, uh,
Guatemalan military officers
363
01:08:58,166 --> 01:09:02,792
had ever, um, been found guilty
of participation
364
01:09:02,875 --> 01:09:06,041
in a state sponsored execution.
365
01:09:06,125 --> 01:09:10,417
I believe Captain Lima thought
that he was going to be
366
01:09:10,500 --> 01:09:14,125
out of prison before getting
into a trial.
367
01:09:14,208 --> 01:09:19,750
I believe Captain Lima was sure
that he was not going to step
368
01:09:19,834 --> 01:09:23,083
in the courtroom
and face a trial
369
01:09:23,166 --> 01:09:25,041
for the Gerardi case.
370
01:09:25,125 --> 01:09:28,709
And so this was the huge test
of which...
371
01:09:28,792 --> 01:09:33,375
it was the Guatemalan justice
system ready to affirm
372
01:09:33,458 --> 01:09:36,250
the most basic,
democratic values.
373
01:09:57,166 --> 01:09:59,667
When Captain Lima was talking
about his case,
374
01:09:59,750 --> 01:10:02,000
by March 2001,
375
01:10:02,083 --> 01:10:06,291
you had to have in mind is,
the trial was about to begin.
376
01:10:06,375 --> 01:10:10,000
It was two or three weeks
before the trial begun,
377
01:10:10,083 --> 01:10:11,500
that we had the interview.
378
01:10:11,583 --> 01:10:14,375
So, he was not sounding really,
really sure or confident...
379
01:10:14,458 --> 01:10:15,750
THE CAPTAIN IS LEFT ALONE
380
01:10:15,834 --> 01:10:19,875
...about getting away with it,
as he sounded before.
381
01:10:19,959 --> 01:10:23,333
I was very aware by that time
that...
382
01:10:23,417 --> 01:10:28,166
he used reporters to spread
his propaganda.
383
01:10:28,250 --> 01:10:33,458
And we were the perfect means
to spread his threats,
384
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:36,208
to spread his intimidations,
385
01:10:36,291 --> 01:10:41,083
to spread his, you know,
subliminal messages.
386
01:10:41,166 --> 01:10:43,500
I was totally aware of that,
and...
387
01:11:30,500 --> 01:11:34,959
People doubted, they said,
"No, you're not gonna be able,
388
01:11:35,041 --> 01:11:38,291
and Public Ministry is not
gonna be able to convict
389
01:11:38,375 --> 01:11:41,792
this military person.
They're too powerful."
390
01:12:12,500 --> 01:12:16,083
I really thought that she was
going to excuse herself
391
01:12:16,166 --> 01:12:17,917
from the trial.
Come on, a bomb
392
01:12:18,041 --> 01:12:20,250
just exploded at her house.
393
01:12:20,333 --> 01:12:25,000
And I thought, like, I mean,
it's your life or the trial.
394
01:12:46,583 --> 01:12:50,291
MÉNDEZ ARRIAZA: Then I looked
at her and I thought,
395
01:12:50,375 --> 01:12:53,291
"Oh, my gosh,
she's really brave."
396
01:12:53,375 --> 01:12:56,166
She didn't excuse herself.
397
01:12:56,250 --> 01:13:00,625
Standing so quiet
and so, you know, firm.
398
01:14:22,208 --> 01:14:25,709
I think almost every reporter
missed a lot
399
01:14:25,792 --> 01:14:27,959
of the most important
testimony.
400
01:14:28,041 --> 01:14:30,917
They never heard it
because it was boring.
401
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,792
Because it would happen during
the slow hours of the trial,
402
01:14:34,875 --> 01:14:37,291
when-- because so many
of the important witnesses
403
01:14:37,375 --> 01:14:39,166
were in exile,
404
01:14:39,250 --> 01:14:41,709
were in prison,
or missing, or...
405
01:14:41,792 --> 01:14:43,917
so a lot of the most important
testimony
406
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,291
was read out loud
into the court.
407
01:14:47,375 --> 01:14:49,709
This was the taxi driver's
testimony.
408
01:14:50,709 --> 01:14:54,208
This was Aguilar Martinez's
testimony.
409
01:14:54,291 --> 01:14:57,291
Right? I think was Oscar Chex's
testimony.
410
01:14:57,375 --> 01:15:00,041
A lot of the key witnesses,
they weren't there.
411
01:15:00,125 --> 01:15:03,333
No. So, these people never
heard it,
412
01:15:03,417 --> 01:15:06,333
because I think I only knew
one reporter
413
01:15:06,417 --> 01:15:07,959
who was nerdy enough
414
01:15:08,041 --> 01:15:10,750
to sit there and listen
to every word of it
415
01:15:11,166 --> 01:15:12,250
and take notes.
416
01:15:12,333 --> 01:15:13,709
And that was Claudia Méndez.
417
01:15:13,792 --> 01:15:16,083
It was a dangerous time,
and you can feel it.
418
01:15:16,166 --> 01:15:19,458
You know the air was so thick
in the trial,
419
01:15:19,542 --> 01:15:21,667
in the courtroom
with the judges,
420
01:15:21,750 --> 01:15:24,375
with the witnesses,
with the prosecutors,
421
01:15:24,458 --> 01:15:25,667
with the defense attorneys.
422
01:15:25,750 --> 01:15:28,917
The air was so heavy and thick
that you could feel it.
423
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:32,583
People had no idea
of what was coming.
424
01:15:32,667 --> 01:15:36,542
People had no idea that ODHA
and that prosecutor's case
425
01:15:36,625 --> 01:15:38,625
was really that strong
or not.
426
01:17:45,375 --> 01:17:47,542
They thought he would be afraid,
427
01:17:47,625 --> 01:17:50,625
uh, they thought he'd be easy
to intimidate.
428
01:17:50,709 --> 01:17:53,750
Um, they thought he'd be easy
to confuse.
429
01:17:53,834 --> 01:17:56,792
You know? And they thought
they could just show him up.
430
01:17:56,875 --> 01:18:00,333
And, uh, nobody was
prepared for what happened.
431
01:18:00,417 --> 01:18:02,000
It was extraordinary.
432
01:19:08,875 --> 01:19:10,959
Chanax did not change
his testimony.
433
01:19:11,041 --> 01:19:12,375
He augmented it.
434
01:19:12,458 --> 01:19:15,667
Right? He always... it was like,
435
01:19:15,750 --> 01:19:17,917
first was like
the basic narrative,
436
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,291
and the basic narrative
never changed.
437
01:19:20,375 --> 01:19:23,917
And he would just always
add more and add more
438
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:25,083
and add more.
439
01:20:01,625 --> 01:20:03,959
And one reason
he had to do that
440
01:20:04,041 --> 01:20:07,000
was because Guatemala
did not have
441
01:20:07,083 --> 01:20:09,792
a protected witness program.
442
01:20:09,875 --> 01:20:13,834
Right? If he said anything
that implicated himself
443
01:20:13,917 --> 01:20:17,291
in the crime, he could be
arrested right there.
444
01:20:17,375 --> 01:20:20,250
And I think the defense
thought that might happen.
445
01:20:20,333 --> 01:20:23,291
That was one of the things--
ways they'd hoped to trick him.
446
01:20:23,375 --> 01:20:24,583
Right? But he was too careful.
447
01:20:24,667 --> 01:20:26,792
He's so wily,
he's such a survivor.
448
01:22:21,083 --> 01:22:23,041
Nobody doubted that
Father Mario
449
01:22:23,125 --> 01:22:24,417
had some involvement.
450
01:22:24,500 --> 01:22:28,375
Was it just unlocking
the door to the sacristy?
451
01:22:28,458 --> 01:22:30,375
Or was it much more sinister?
452
01:22:30,458 --> 01:22:32,417
I think to this day,
some of those questions
453
01:22:32,500 --> 01:22:35,000
are still hanging over
the case.
454
01:22:35,083 --> 01:22:37,667
But that he was involved?
Um, without a doubt.
455
01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:40,750
No, had he been blackmailed
into doing something,
456
01:22:40,834 --> 01:22:44,208
or did he actively take part?
457
01:22:44,291 --> 01:22:48,166
In the build-up of the verdict,
we were all waiting
458
01:22:48,250 --> 01:22:52,250
at the courthouse.
It took many hours.
459
01:23:03,500 --> 01:23:06,542
You could cut the tension
with a steak knife.
460
01:23:06,625 --> 01:23:08,458
It was crazy.
461
01:23:08,542 --> 01:23:10,125
The hours passed,
the hours passed,
462
01:23:10,208 --> 01:23:12,333
and then it just came the time.
463
01:24:58,250 --> 01:25:00,834
MÉNDEZ ARRIAZA:
464
01:25:04,625 --> 01:25:09,583
is when she reads that
the crime was political.
465
01:25:09,667 --> 01:25:13,500
It was a straight crime.
That's the conclusion,
466
01:25:13,583 --> 01:25:18,625
which means they were not
convicted only, you know,
467
01:25:18,709 --> 01:25:23,250
by the charges of assassination,
but they were convicted
468
01:25:23,333 --> 01:25:25,750
by being state members
469
01:25:25,834 --> 01:25:31,250
and using all the state means,
not only to commit the crime
470
01:25:31,333 --> 01:25:33,333
but to cover the crime.
471
01:25:33,417 --> 01:25:37,917
Um, proving to society
that justice can be served
472
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,375
no matter who the defendant is,
473
01:25:40,458 --> 01:25:43,792
and giving that hope and
just breaking a little brick
474
01:25:43,875 --> 01:25:48,917
of that impunity wall
that has done so much damage
475
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:50,458
to the Guatemalan society.
476
01:25:50,542 --> 01:25:53,458
Guatemalans recognize
that the place to draw the line
477
01:25:53,542 --> 01:25:56,291
to protect Guatemala
from becoming
478
01:25:56,375 --> 01:25:59,166
the completely failed state,
the narco state,
479
01:25:59,250 --> 01:26:02,250
was by protecting
the justice system.
480
01:26:02,333 --> 01:26:04,208
And that's why we've seen
so many
481
01:26:04,291 --> 01:26:06,417
of the, uh,
extraordinary things
482
01:26:06,500 --> 01:26:07,875
that came out of
the Gerardi case
483
01:26:07,959 --> 01:26:12,875
a strengthened, idealistic,
ennobled justice department
484
01:26:12,959 --> 01:26:15,166
has pulled off some
incredible things in Guatemala.
485
01:26:15,250 --> 01:26:16,750
That there are people here
ready to-- you know,
486
01:26:16,834 --> 01:26:19,709
willing to wage these kinds
of fights and to win them.
487
01:26:19,792 --> 01:26:22,083
They don't always, you know,
and especially now.
488
01:26:22,166 --> 01:26:24,333
We're heading into some
really dark times.
489
01:26:24,417 --> 01:26:25,542
GERARDI LIVES
490
01:26:25,625 --> 01:26:28,500
All of that is
Bishop Gerardi's legacy,
491
01:26:28,583 --> 01:26:31,792
and it's why you still see
his poster everywhere,
492
01:26:31,875 --> 01:26:36,625
and his spirit's behind the way
Guatemalans are living now.
493
01:28:04,041 --> 01:28:07,667
GERARDI LIVES!
36632
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