Original subtitles

His name has become synonymous with terror.

In California, five members of a so-called religious cult,

including Charles Manson, their guru or high priest,

have been indicted in the murder of Sharon Tate and six others.

His sadistic murder shocked the world.

Charles Manson was charged with

controlling and directing the killers.

I don't have any guilt. I knew what I'd done.

And now, 50 years later, he remains the face of evil.

Helter Skelter.

From behind bars, he seeks out his final victim, his own family.

You've got a prepaid call from an inmate at the CSP State Prison.

Searching for closure from a criminal

who shares the same blood.

My grandfather is Charles Manson.

I wish I could bring you into what I'm doing.

It's hard to look back and know where you come from.

I did not want my son around that.

I didn't want him to think that that was in him.

Because that would have been his bloodline.

What's going to happen to me? Am I going to kill somebody?

Is this in the family tree? Is this in the genes? In the blood?

I want to face him face to face.

I want to know the answers because I'm sick of feeling lost.

No matter who he is, he's still family.

Understanding me is understanding yourself.

The reality is, it's me.

There is nothing else.

-You're my me. -My me.

My me.

That's yourself all the way back to me.

I want to update our breaking news right now.

Charles Manson, one of the most notorious murder masterminds

in US history has died at the age of 83.

The California Department of Corrections says

he died of natural causes on Sunday.

Manson was serving nine consecutive life sentences

for murder and conspiracy to commit murder

for ordering a wave of killings back in 1969.

At 8:30 this morning, William Chapman,

an employee came to work at 10050 Cielo,

and found several bodies in the house

and immediately the police were notified.

Friday night in Los Angeles, a movie actress and four of her friends

were murdered in circumstances were lurid.

The movie actress was Sharon Tate, 26.

The pregnant actress who was married

to the director Roman Polanski

was brutally murdered along with four of her friends.

Charles Manson is the quintessential, most notorious murderer ever.

Helter Skelter was the name of a Beatles song,

but for Charles Manson it was basically, you know, Armageddon.

His interpretation was that there was going to be a race war

and it would be black against whites

and the blacks would rise up and defeat the whites,

but they wouldn't be able to run the world

and Charlie would rise up out of the desert

and he would take over everything.

A short time later, not too far away,

a middle-aged couple was found murdered in similar circumstances.

The so-called Manson family killed again,

tying up and murdering a wealthy couple.

He wanted to show that the beautiful rich people needed to be killed.

He murdered two more people

for a total of seven horrible, mutilated stabbings and killings.

Los Angeles Police have connected some members of a nomadic gang

with the murders of actress Sharon Tate and others.

Sharon Tate was eight and a half months pregnant

and she was just picked at random.

Manson didn't know her. None of the family members knew her.

Sharon Tate begged for her life.

She said, "Please don't kill me, I just want to have my baby."

And Susan Atkins said, "Look, bitch, I don't care about you or your baby.

You're going to die and you'd better be ready for it

and I don't feel a thing about it."

Susan Atkins dipped the towel in Sharon Tate's blood,

and then wrote pig on the front door.

Yeah, it was definitely a gruesome scene.

All of the elements are present for

one of the most sensational murder trials in American history.

He was a detestable excuse for a human being.

Manson was in it for Manson.

Everyone else existed to do his bidding,

by becoming famous for the murders.

The shaved heads and the excess in the court room

when Charlie would nod and they would say the same thing in unison.

I mean, I've never seen anything quite like that.

Today, the judge formally passed sentence

on Charles Manson and his girls.

The death penalty, he said, for seven senseless murders.

He said not only was the sentence appropriate,

but almost compelled in this case, so death in the gas chamber he said.

Do you believe that there should be a death penalty?

-A death penalty? -Yes.

For someone who commits a murder or something like that.

Aren't we all born to die?

Charles Manson was originally sentenced to death.

But in 1972, the death penalty was overturned as unconstitutional

and so he and the rest were then commuted to get life sentences.

I'm going back down in an old hole now.

March 17 2018 Charles Manson's Funeral

One of the hardest, hardest things I've ever done

was just to get my grandfather

to the funeral home.

2 YEARS EARLIER

SEPTEMBER 12, 2016

For several years, Jason Freeman recorded

multiple phone calls with his grandfather

who was serving 9 consecutive life sentences

in a California State prison.

His grandfather is Charles Manson.

You have a prepaid call from Charlie.

an inmate a California state penitentiary. Corcoran, California.

To accept this call, say or dial five now.

What's going on?

Before we could communicate,

I could show you another level of reality

that's never been accepted.

Don't carry a bunch of trash around in your head.

-I sent you a postcard. -For anything I tricked you.

I tricked you to tie you up.

But I don't think you get to me.

-Because I'm too deep. See it? -I see it.

We're calling them prisons, you fucking asshole.

They don't realize what they're gonna get for what.

That's it. Conversation over.

My cousin told me who my grandfather was.

I was young. I really didn't understand it.

So I went home and asked my mother.

She asked me not to talk about it.

It was just something that I never talked about.

And nobody else in the family would ever really talk to him about it.

I didn't want him to think that that was in him.

Because that would have been his bloodline.

I did a little bit of research and it talked about a cult leader,

people were killed.

And I saw the swastika and the crazy talk.

All of this dramatic stuff and I thought,

"Is this part of who I am?"

Charles Manson is serving his life sentence for murder

in San Quentin Prison. That is where we talked with him.

He never expressed remorse. Have you never felt it?

Remorse for what?

You people have done everything in the world to me.

If I wanted to kill somebody,

I'd take this book and beat you to death with it

and I wouldn't feel a thing.

Believe me, if I started murdering people, there'd be none of you left.

I couldn't imagine what it would be like to be related to Charles Manson.

I'm just curious how do you go through life with that name?

Charles Manson is part of my bloodline

and I don't have a choice, I have to live with that.

Understanding me is understanding yourself.

The reality is you're me.

OUTSIDE TAMPA, FLORIDA - 2016

I met Jason when I was 22.

I told my Mom, I said, "Hey, I met this guy

and, you know, he said that he's the grandson of Charles Manson,"

and her face, her eyes got real big and she said,

"W're not going to tell your dad about this for quite some time."

You don't really want to be known for being a so called killer's grandson.

I'll get phone calls out of the blue.

And it will be an unknown caller, so I'll send it over to voicemail,

and they tell me they just want to kill me, they know where I live.

It's like, why you want to kill me?

They know what my grandfather did.

It was 50 years ago. That's why I have guns in my house now.

It's why I have cubby holes set up.

I even stage my backyard now sometimes.

Now, where I live is a small town, but I mind my own business.

I stay away from people, I don't want them to ask me about it.

Those people that commit those murders,

they don't realize what they're doing to the people left behind.

First time I talked to Charles Manson on the phone,

I was definitely nervous.

I'm still angry. I still have resentment.

On the one hand, he's family and I want to get to know him,

but on the other hand, I hate him.

So, in my eyes, we had a long way to go

and it was going to take time.

My grandfather is famous in California.

That's where he created all of his notorious fame.

But he grew up in West Virginia.

MCMECHEN, WEST VIRGINIA

Charles Mother was Kathleen.

Her mother had not very much to say that was good about her.

I heard that she had quite a bad reputation.

She would lure men home

and her brother would beat them up and rob them.

Kathleen Maddox was a girl who liked to have fun.

And Kathleen wanted to just go out and drink and party.

She had a very religious upbringing. Her mother was Nazarene.

Kathleen was only 15 when she got pregnant

and her lover at the time, Colonel Scott, was 24.

And he didn't want to marry her,

so he left, and she ended up an unwed, pregnant teenager.

So she had to go and find a husband, which she did.

Four months before Charlie was born.

And they got married to give her son a name.

Kathleen was arrested with a roommate and her brother, Luther,

for basically taking this guy in a bar dancing with him

and then saying, "Hey, let's go party."

They grabbed a ketchup bottle, filled it up with salt,

hit him over the head with it, stole his car

and left him by the side of the road.

Charlie would go to visit his mother at the prison

and she told him that she was cleaning the area

where they were executing prisoners

and she hid in a closet and watched one.

So when he was ultimately convicted and sent to death row

that memory really resonated with him

and came back to actually have an impact on his life.

And I also knew that she didn't want to take care of Charles.

She put him in a home and when he ran away, she took him right back.

So, he didn't have the life that you'd want for any child.

Charlie was in reform schools, juvenile detention facilities

because he just kept stealing cars and running away and escaping.

And in order to punish him, the only thing they could do

was send him to a more secure facility.

So, while he was in these institutions,

he got an education that was entirely different

from what the rest of us get.

So his grandmother agreed to let him live with her

if he attended church because that was important to her.

And that arrangement was what brought him here.

NANCY MADDOX CHARLES MANSON'S GRANDMOTHER

His grandmother had a big heart.

One of the nicest people I've ever met

and it was evident that she cared a lot about Charles.

He was only with his grandmother for the first part of the second grade.

I think anybody would have loved to have her for their grandmother.

She knew her Bible backwards and frontwards

and that would have been the saving grace for Charles.

If he had listened to her.

MCMECHEN, WEST VIRGINIA

Growing up in Bentwood, McMechen area

it was all rail roaders and people who work in the steel mills.

That was primary, that was some coal miners, but it was a nice place.

It was a good town to grow up in, I met Charlie actually one time.

I happened to be on Marshall Street in front of Joseph's confectionary

and Charlie had his back up against the confectionary

and we were just talking,

but the thing that made an imprint on me

was the fact that he has a machete.

He seemed to be very quiet to me. He didn't talk a whole lot.

He wasn't swinging it maliciously, but he was just going back and forth

and we spoke for a short period of time and then went our ways.

I had a Halloween party with the Sunday school

and invited Charles to come and he did.

He came dressed as a carnival barker.

My cousin and I were the only ones who spent time with Charles.

And I think he went home just a little bit hurt.

Rosalie Willis was a kind of outgoing person and very attractive.

Charles went to Wheeling Downs, which is horse racing track

and Rosalie's father always took her with him.

Charles met her there and they hung out the whole day

and she was the one.

By all accounts, Rosalie Willis was Charlie Manson's first

and only true love in his life.

I was at Charles wedding reception.

I have to say I would imagine that was the happiest day of his life.

He was just beaming.

Smiling the whole time and I think Rosalie was only 15.

Then they left and went to California

and as I understand life went pretty sour after that.

Charlie and Rosalie went out west in a stolen car

and eventually the law caught up to Charlie and he was arrested.

So he went to jail, Rosalie was pregnant,

and she came to visit him.

For a short time, with the baby, and then stopped coming.

I can remember hearing that she was pregnant

and I assumed that she did have a son with Charlie.

The one thing I always admired around here

is the local press never, ever reveal her son's name.

Charles Manson Jr. was named after his father, obviously,

but when Rosalie started dating a truck driver

named Jack White and started a family with him,

she wanted her child to match her other children with her new husband,

so she renamed him Jay White.

Jay and I started dating. He was a lot of fun.

He always made you laugh.

And he was a gentle guy.

He wasn't meant or nothing. He was always really nice.

He said he never knew his Dad, had never met his Dad.

And so when his Dad committed those murders,

he was just a kid and he didn't understand.

DENNISON, OHIO

When I met your Dad, I met a boy named Jay White.

That's what he called himself.

Jay started telling us that his dad was Charles Manson

and we didn't even know who Charles Manson was.

Because we were just kids. I never thought much about it.

Then when I went to Cadiz and met Jay's family.

-So they admitted to it? -Oh, yeah.

So the thing is, when Jay went to get his driver's license,

his ID had to be Charles Mills Manson Jr..

Because you can't go by Jay White legally.

Right. I didn't think it was legally changed.

No, not then, no it wasn't. It wasn't legally changed.

And to be honest with you, he had two Social Security cards.

One with Jay White and one Charles Manson Jr.

Now how he did that, I don't know.

I don't even know how his mother did it, I don't know who did it.

When anything legal came up, he had to go under Charles Manson.

Oh, he had to. Holy cow!

So then when he got a job in a coal mine,

he had to go in under Charles Manson.

We were never married and he just wasn't there when you were born.

When he was little, his father was my husband, Dink.

His nickname's Dink, his real name's Glenn.

I just told him that he had a different dad.

He lived far away and wasn't able to come and see him.

At a young age, I didn't really understand why he wasn't around.

I grew up, knowing that I had a biological father,

but he didn't engage in activities with me.

I can't say that it was very troublesome at that time

because my stepfather filled that void.

All I ever heard was my grandfather, he's a killer, he's a bogeyman,

he's a cult leader, he murdered all of these people.

It was such a horrific murder

that dominated the headlines at the time.

The family of crazy people

who were under the influence of Charles Manson,

that he was able to convince them to do this,

it was just a shocking incident.

There was so much hatred for Charles Manson

that anytime my father's name came up,

the house exploded, shit shut down, it's like it can't be talked about.

You know, somebody give me some answers.

They told me that he tried to see his dad, but his dad wouldn't see him.

If that's true or not, I don't know.

But I believe that he did write to him or tried to see him.

The older your dad got, the more he talked about Manson.

I didn't want him around you

because I didn't want you around those kind of people.

Like why? What? What are you...?

He didn't understand why his dad wouldn't see him.

He couldn't understand why his dad wouldn't answer his letters.

He wanted to see him because he wanted to meet his dad

and find out why he didn't had a dad.

It should be pretty evident why he didn't have a dad, he's a criminal.

He's in prison.

It hurt him the most in his lifetime,

but I didn't want him shoving it over to you.

Because you just grew up completely different.

You had a mom and a dad. You had a family.

And that's something Charles didn't have,

something Jay didn't have. So, I was actually happy

as you got older that I didn't have to deal with him.

But I never said it to you.

I never wanted to run your dad down in front of you or nothing.

With the Tate-La Bianca murders,

those choices snowballed into my family's life, right?

They snowballed right into my father's life.

He didn't ask for it. He was born into it.

As a father, I figured my children, I want to be in their lives.

Because I know what it's like to not have my father in my life.

I met Jay in the probably mid-70s.

Just going into the bar with my friends after work.

At that time the Manson murders were only five, six years ago.

You could actually tell after you got to know him, talking to him,

you could see there was a lot of anxiety

that he was definitely holding in.

I didn't realize that he fought so many demons.

When my father came back in town,

I'd get a letter, I'd get a card, I'd get something for my birthday.

I'd get a Christmas gift. He didn't know how to be a part of my life.

He didn't know how to be the father that a child needs.

Maybe he personally saw things in himself

like, hey, that's way too much like my Dad

and I think maybe that may have scared him.

Several times I personally heard him say, you know,

how can I go on being Charles Manson's son?

It was in the afternoon, my freshman year,

and they pulled me out of school.

I didn't know why yet.

My mom didn't come pick me up.

Nobody told me what was going on yet.

Because they were just telling me how sorry they were.

I'm like what's going on? You know?

My mom said that she got a call from Grandma Rosie

My father pulled to the side of the road and shot himself.

CADIZ, OHIO

I was angry after my father's death.

There was a lot of unanswered questions,

emotions that would come up, out of the blue.

I couldn't believe he would do something like that.

I was shocked. Really shocked.

On the day we buried him, I remember

Grandma turning to meand looking at me and saying, now it's buried.

She said we're putting a rock on top of it...

end of story. I don't ever want to hear his name again.

And I didn't understand what she was talking about,

because I was only a Freshman in high school

and I didn't even know how to accept the death of my father yet.

It's very confusing for him.

While normal kids get to have regular grandparents, and parents,

and not only has he not seen his,

his could probably be one of the biggest villains in the country

so it was tough for him to even talk about.

I started writing Charlie in 1999.

It was more like, I wonder if he'd write back. It was curiosity.

I wrote a poem entitled the Five Cold Tiers of San Quentin.

It touched him enough to write me back,

ask for my phone number,

I gave it and he called and the rest is history.

We've just maintained this friendship.

I got a phone call and Charlie said, "Hey man, I need a favor."

Charlie likes to send you on these missions.

Manson asked me to find his son Junior.

Or there was a rumor that he'd committed suicide.

I think Manson was looking for confirmation,

because he didn't believe it.

There was no proof, he said. He's out there. Find him for me.

So, when I did, and sure enough it led me to Colorado,

I had to pay, I think it was $14 for a copy of the death certificate.

And right on that death certificate, it's got the same date of birth,

Aka Charles Manson Jr. Jay White...

and I sent it to Charlie.

Sad to say but it's true, Charlie, he committed suicide in 1993.

CHARLES MANSON, JR. BLOWS HIS BRAINS OUT

After my father Charles Manson Jr. died...

I seemed to get in a lot of trouble.

It was just another negative he had to deal with.

One more thing for him to try to pretend that everything was okay,

but it was eating him up.

I had the tunnel vision of a young kid.

I was always on probation, every summer.

Vandalism, petty theft.

He sold drugs, he got in trouble for it

and I really didn't know he was doing all that.

I spent eight months in prison

and six months in a rehabilitation halfway house.

I think I was so out of control

that going to prison, it would be a blessing.

I would always find something positive out of it

so that I didn't kill my own spirits.

I was locked up, I had about four months left

and I ran into a guy who opened up to me

and he said, "Jason, I won the 1982 tough man tournament."

I'm like, "So you fought?"

He's like, "Yeah, that was a big achievement for me."

And he's like, "Nobody can ever take it away from me."

I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. He won the championship,

I'm thinking, you're more than this, you're better than this.

Lift yourself up out where you're at.

When I got out, I made a new goal

that I was going to get into boxing and mixed martial arts.

Moving on to our second of three main events,

Jason the Freiberg Freeman.

I had heard about Jason just from his fight career

but I hadn't met him, I didn't know who he was personally.

I was 22 and I was bartending.

A friend of mine had bought this establishment

and we weren't open yet.

And there was this knock on the door. So there stood these three big guys

wanting to come in and eat wings, and one of them was Jason.

So, he was there all night flirting with me

and every time I would serve him a beer,

he would you know, tip me $5, $10. $20. Whatever it was. So...

Yeah, I think he pretty much bought me the first night.

It was about a week into us dating.

He said, "You're going to hear something

I'm just going to tell you now."

He said that my grandfather's Charles Manson.

He didn't get into a whole lot with me

because we were so fresh in our relationship.

I'm fighting my way back out of my home town

and fighting my way away from my past.

It feels like a family tree has a branch around me and just slowly...

taking its time to suck the last piece of breath out of you.

A the end of my career, I realized I had to grow up and get a real job.

So I could either go in a hole and work in the mines.

Or I could go up high and work in the oil field.

And I thought, well, they can't bury a Freiberg underground

so I had to pick the oil field.

At that time Jason's stepdad was still alive

so it was kind of something that I understood wasn't talked about.

It wasn't until Jason's stepdad passed away

and then it seemed like more and more and more.

He felt more free to talk about his real dad

and then talked about his grandpa.

I didn't learn about a lot of his lifem of course, until later on.

I knew it was only a matter of time before it did come out.

Those things are going to surface.

I wanted to be that one to let it come out.

You have to be awful comfortable in your own skin

if that's a decision you made and you want to go public with it

and acknowledge it, you have to be 100% sure why you're doing it

and be able to walk down the street with your head held high.

Because you can't put that genie back in the bottle.

Once you say you're his grandson, that's it.

Today this member of the real Manson family says enough.

I am who I am you know?

You know, I'm not something that he was.

CNN was working with Matthew Roberts Lintz for quite some time.

And he claims to be a son of Manson...

alleging that his mother was involved in this wild orgy with Manson.

Roberts tried to get a DNA match with genetic material

from Charles Manson himself, but the samples were contaminated.

But there is another way to establish the family link.

Matthew Roberts and Jason Freeman

if they're related will share Manson's DNA.

They had us on camera to see if we're related.

And I thought I was going to see my uncle.

I thought, I mean he looks like, he's got the big old bug eyes.

We determined with scientific certainty

that you do not share a common biological ancestry.

No match on any level,

but everything has a reaction and everything has a ripple effect.

Being on CNN with Matthew Lintz for a DNA test...

The ripple effect worked its way all the way to my grandfather.

A buddy of mine called me and said,

"Hey man, you need to turn on this news channel, quick."

And I said why? He said, "Man, do it, quick."

So I turned it on and sure enough there was Jason Freeman.

And the caption below it said grandson of Charles Manson.

And right away I said, here we go again.

Just another guy claiming to be related to Manson.

But what stood out to me was when they asked him about his father,

Charles Jr. and here I see this six foot burly cage fighter crying,

there's some real emotion there.

So I found him. I wrote him a letter.

I got a letter from John Michael Jones

just opening up and pouring out his heart.

I called him up and I'm like, "Hey John, this is Jason Freeman."

And I'm like, hey man, I'm glad you called.

Let me introduce myself. I'm a friend of your grandfather's.

And, you know, he asked me to reach out to you.

He opened up and shared with me...

how he really truly loved my grandfather.

Manson called not even a night or two later

and I said, hey, you're not going to believe who I talked to.

He said, "Yeah, who's that?"

I said your real grandson, Junior's kid. Junior had a kid.

I said he's got pictures of Rosalie, he's got pictures of Junior.

Death certificate, birth certificate

And he got quiet. He said, pictures of Rosalie?

I'm like, "He's got pictures of Rosie, Joey.

He said, yeah but... Are they pictures that...

I said, "No, no, no, these are pictures I've never seen."

He's like, "You've never seen any of them?"

I said, "None of them. It's him."

"I need you to find out more about this guy."

I said, already did. I already talked to him on the phone.

So, who's he look like? Is he fat?

For some reason that was important to him.

How many kids he got?

What color of hair do they have? Does any of them have freckles?

Like what kind of questions are that? Like they got freckles?

But then as I started to ponder that after the 15 minute phone call,

I started to think those are grandfatherly questions.

So I started to slowly feel Charlie accept Jason.

Most people's childhood memories

are their grandpa bouncing on their knee

or grandpa usually teasing their grandsons

and Jason never had that.

Never had that from his biological father

and never had that from his grandfather.

So I think it's Jason's inner need to connect with his roots.

I hope to get Jason one step closer to meeting his grandfather.

It's important for me to do that because I think

it's going to benefit Charlie just as much as Jason, if not more.

You have a prepaid call from an inmate

at California State Prison. Corcoran, California.

The first time I talked to Charles Manson on the phone

was when I was in the oil field.

It was a little loud, but I made sure that I was on time by the phone

because when you call from prison you get one call.

So my grandfather's first conversation,

he started venting about his case.

He actually informed me of a lot

of what he thought that his rights were taken from him.

He was wrongfully accused for the murders

that he wasn't present at.

So he was informing me of the rights

that were pulled from him back in the 70s.

How come the court shirked and turned their backs on me

and wouldn't give me my rights?

When it came defense time they said we're taking too long on this,

covered it up and told the public another Manson outburst.

What defense did I put on? What witness did I call?

Did I call one witness? Yeah, I got peace.

But until everybody's got peace, I can't have peace.

In other words, I got you.

But I can't have you until everybody else gets you

and when everybody else gets through with you, then I'll get you.

I was still angry about my father, about my father's death

and I was pointing that finger right at him.

When Jason was interacting with Charles, I was really shocked.

I didn't like it at all. He was a grown man.

I guess I can't stop him, but I did not like it.

I wanted to know what they talked about.

Like you know, tell him where we lived or anything,

I mean, the fact that he was in California was good with that.

Like, I know he's not coming here. So you know...

I'd like for us to keep talking more. I'd like to record our phone calls.

Yeah, haven't you been doing it?

As we continued phone calls for the first year

that was, you know, one of the hardest things of my life.

In the beginning, they were both very stand offish.

I think first...

Charlie has a lot of people who want to contact him,

and do contact him.

And Jason was kind of at a loss, what do I even say?

So he was struggling to carry on conversations.

Did you do what I asked you?

-Not yet -I know you couldn't have did it.

-You're incompetent and brain dead. -Fuck you.

You gonna get upset at me,

and you're going to get mad at me for telling you the truth?

Hey, I enough said. Please don't get mad at me, but...

-Good Lord, Hail Mary. -Fuck off, it's all right.

Charlie had a lot of regrets.

And one of them was not being there for Junior.

And I think he was in a sense trying to make it up to Jason.

I think he had regrets for not what he called parenting.

He wasn't a parent to this one or that one.

Because I've never been a parent to you.

I've never been anything to you in particular.

Well, we haven't had that chance to...

until now to understand each other more and...

Well, understanding means understanding yourself,

and that's wrong. You are wrong away from that.

It was hard not to place all that anger

and the death of my father on his shoulders.

I thought my father couldn't handle the pressure of who his father was

and that's why he killed himself.

Can you imagine a guy that would commit suicide

because he couldn't stand what somebody else did?

That guy must have been some boy. He was really warped, man.

But when you're dealing with a situation

that has a lot of pressure to it?

Are you asking me that question?

Yeah, well, you knew the guy. I didn't know him.

As we got to know each other and he told me

that he didn't get the messages. He didn't get the letters.

He didn't get the stuff from my father that was sent out there.

He said that there was so much going on and there's so many people.

He didn't know who was who and who was real

and he didn't want to bring him into that same darkness

that he's created for himself.

You have a prepaid call from the California State Prison.

Corcoran, California.

Only I can lock me up.

Everything in the world is in my mind.

I rule me.

Me is all there is to me.

See it?

Last year we were in my garage...

Manson had called him and he put him on speaker phone

I'm everybody.

I'm everywhere.

I'm everything.

I'm nothing.

I never was. I've always been.

The paradox of like...

the double entendre's that are...

one way or the other. I know but I don't know.

I don't know that I don't know. If I don't know than I don't know.

How could I know what knowing is?

I started thinking myself you know, here's my buddy who's chased this...

and try to get some answers and some soul searching

and this is the conversation that he gets with his grandfather?

Wasn't much of a conversation, it was just Charles Manson talking.

I could tell you things about spiders

and solitary confinement that you wouldn't believe.

You can't be too smart.

You got to be a low life level...

to understand the low life considerations.

At that point I didn't know how good it was for him emotionally

to continue and make these phone calls to the prison...

but it also wasn't my business. My job was just to support him.

I tried to tell my son that, I said Jason, he's a criminal,

he's always going to be a criminal. He just is who he is.

Just from what you see on interviews and stuff how crazy he talks.

It's your life, it's not mine.

I'm just another guy walking down the road...

I've got a face... What is it?

I just didn't want him filling Jason's head full of crime.

There's good in Charles Manson,

I don't care what anybody else thinks,

It's there...

The evil things that he was involved with

That's the evil side of life.

Charlie began to see that Jason wasn't a struggling actor,

or a starving musician.

And with that he was just an average Joe

and as a dad...

who was just supporting his children.

A family man who just wanted to know his grandfather.

I think that he's proud that...

he's his grandson and look what he's overcome.

Could everybody else in this room,

could everybody else that may watch this,

could you be Charles Manson's grandson?

And then develop a family like him and you know, be an entrepreneur...

and be a successful and have beautiful kids and a wife?

You had a prepaid call from a California State Prison.

Corcoran, California.

How's your kids, man?

Man, they're doing good, brother.

-Yeah. That's a good, man. -Yeah.

Yeah, they're going to grow up like you teach them, man.

At first I would ..

You know, he'd be talking, here's my wife, Audrey. I mean he was...

as close to normal that you can include in the same sentence

with Charles Manson, but very normal.

Who you going to vote for?

-Me? -You're gonna vote for Trump?

What about Hillary? Because... you're doomed if one wins

and you're damned if the other one wins.

So in the beginning, he didn't start talking to the kids.

It wasn't until after Jason and him had kind of developed a relationship

and then he wasn't...

the crazy monster that he was made out to be.

I don't like the thought of the kids knowing stuff.

He would call our house. The kids would talk to Charlie on the phone.

It was just kind of like hey, your grandpa's on the phone.

Yeah, they reflect you, man.

That's why I keep myself in check,

because my kids are following what I do.

You working regular? That's what counts.

You've got kids, you got to have that job, man.

Take care of your kids, take care of your family.

Take care of yourself, that's all you got, man.

-You certainly don't have me. -I get it.

Yeah, I'm a cold dude, man. I deal hard like a mother.

I'd leave you sitting in a cell and I'd be up on a train.

I'd be in your back pocket. Yeah, I ain't go nowhere...

Jason never looked at it like he was talking to a cult, serial killer.

He was always talking to his grandfather.

I'm his grandson. I can't look at him as just being evil.

Overall, I think Jason came out of those years

with some sort of connection with his grandpa.

Dude. Well, I'm looking for some...

relief from this dilemma that I'm on.

The horns of this devil I'm riding over here.

I'm trying to figure out a way to get out

from underneath this bullshit.

And I can't find a way.

Well, however I can contribute to help my grandfather,

I would do that

because if you're family, you're family

and nothing comes in between that.

It wasn't a goal at first. It wasn't something like...

Off the top of my head, I'm like, one day I want to see my grandfather.

I know my mom's asked me in the past,

do you ever want to see your grandfather? And...

Then I didn't have a reason to.

I supported him in whatever happened.

So, if he wanted to go, I was supporting that.

If he didn't want to go, I was supporting that.

As I got older, as my kids grew and as my kids got older,

I'd think of my father,

I'd think of my grandfather and it rolls full circle and...

Why wouldn't I want to meet him?

He had COPD. He had a bad heart.

He was complaining of all different kinds of things,

but mainly, the cancer weakened him.

He was bleeding a lot.

You have a prepaid call from an inmate

at a California State Prison, Corcoran, California.

-Hey, grandpa, I was supposed... -Yeah?

I'm supposed to ask you...

...for a visitation paperwork,

so I can come and visit you.

-Yeah. -I wanna...

-I wanna... Yeah. I need... -Yeah.

Let me explain something to you, man.

-Okay. -You're a cage fighter.

You understand what it's like to fight for what you get.

-All right... -When I came to prison,

if you wanted to visit, you'd go to the front gate

and you tell the guy, I want to visit Charles Manson,

and they can't stop you.

Welcome back, everyone.

Cult leader Charles Manson has reportedly been moved

from prison to a hospital here in California.

Sources telling the LA Times the convicted mass murderer

is in serious condition.

There's no secret. Charlie was very sick.

And it was different this time.

Because he started to lose weight, a lot of weight.

I just knew it was it. I felt it.

I thought this guy can't last much longer.

As he gets older, no matter who he is, he's still family.

I want to be beside him.

I believe that the first time I see my grandfather..

could also be the last time I see my grandfather.

June 18, 2017

Jason started to go to California...

and it's almost one of those things when you feel in your gut

that you have to do something and it's got to be fairly quickly.

That's how it feels.

I just couldn't sit at home anymore, working every day,

knowing that he's on his death bed in and out of the hospital.

The major thing that's preventing Jason from seeing Charlie is...

the so called list at the prison.

Jason's not on the list, approved list to see Charlie.

It's probably going to be the first and last time that he meets him.

But I think that will bring closure...

not only for Jason, but for Charlie too.

It's definitely going to be an emotional visit for my husband

and you can't pick your family all of the time,

and the fact that it's Charles Manson but he...

you know, he's going out there because it's his Grandpa.

Wish he'd just forgot about the whole thing.

He just let it go.

To meet Jason is that last bit of normalcy in Charlie's life.

That he's going to have before he passes away

to feel that bond between a grandfather and a grandson.

And Jason, to me, is the only last living descendent that gives a crap.

That wants a part of Charlie's life. That wants to be there to help him.

The pressure that I get from being...

his grandson is overwhelming. It's just a matter of time

until you get stretched too far until it breaks.

There is nothing else.

You're in it.

You're me.

I'm you.

You're in my blood.

Subtitles: Philip Macdonald www.sdimedia.com