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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:11,488 --> 00:00:12,955 CLAPPER LOADER: Errol Morris interview, take one. 2 00:00:13,021 --> 00:00:15,688 Soft sticks. Mark. 3 00:00:15,755 --> 00:00:17,688 So, what brings you here today? 4 00:00:17,755 --> 00:00:19,521 (Smerling laughs) 5 00:00:19,588 --> 00:00:22,821 All right, I want to start with your story 6 00:00:22,888 --> 00:00:25,621 inside the story, like you do in the book. 7 00:00:25,688 --> 00:00:27,021 Um... 8 00:00:27,088 --> 00:00:30,155 Christmas 1991‐‐ could we start there? 9 00:00:30,221 --> 00:00:32,488 Can you remember that day? 10 00:00:32,555 --> 00:00:34,855 I do remember the day. 11 00:00:34,921 --> 00:00:37,121 ♪♪ ♪♪ 12 00:00:38,155 --> 00:00:40,188 MORRIS: Early that morning, 13 00:00:40,255 --> 00:00:43,388 I suggested to my wife we should just go up 14 00:00:43,455 --> 00:00:47,188 and look at the Jeffrey MacDonald crime scene together. 15 00:00:47,255 --> 00:00:49,121 Um... 16 00:00:49,188 --> 00:00:52,255 what better way to spend Christmas? 17 00:00:52,321 --> 00:00:54,321 ♪♪ ♪♪ 18 00:00:55,621 --> 00:00:57,255 I get interested in stuff 19 00:00:57,321 --> 00:01:00,055 because I get bothered by stuff. 20 00:01:04,388 --> 00:01:08,955 And what's really interesting about the MacDonald murder case 21 00:01:09,021 --> 00:01:11,188 is how many, many, 22 00:01:11,255 --> 00:01:14,421 many people have gone back over this. 23 00:01:18,255 --> 00:01:22,388 It's a case that resists definitive explanations. 24 00:01:22,455 --> 00:01:24,521 ♪♪ ♪♪ 25 00:01:28,888 --> 00:01:32,721 Wandering in that wilderness of conflicting evidence 26 00:01:32,788 --> 00:01:35,621 and interpretations, 27 00:01:35,688 --> 00:01:38,888 of mistakes, of errors... 28 00:01:48,821 --> 00:01:51,055 Certainly in this case, 29 00:01:51,121 --> 00:01:53,855 the mystery is about what happened 30 00:01:53,921 --> 00:01:55,888 in that house. 31 00:01:58,521 --> 00:02:01,955 I went into it with the hope that I could crack it... 32 00:02:03,355 --> 00:02:07,088 ...that I could come to some kind of conclusion. 33 00:02:10,821 --> 00:02:12,188 But you don't know 34 00:02:12,255 --> 00:02:16,021 whether truth is going to be difficult to find 35 00:02:16,088 --> 00:02:18,621 unless you try to find it. 36 00:02:18,688 --> 00:02:21,921 The wife and two young daughters of an Army doctor 37 00:02:21,988 --> 00:02:24,521 were found dead in their home in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. 38 00:02:24,588 --> 00:02:26,855 MIKE WALLACE: You may remember the crime, back in 1970... 39 00:02:26,921 --> 00:02:29,088 One of America's most sensational murder cases... 40 00:02:29,155 --> 00:02:30,488 ...one of the most bizarre murder cases... 41 00:02:30,555 --> 00:02:32,888 The most complicated murder case in history. 42 00:02:32,955 --> 00:02:35,421 MacDonald says the murderers were three men and a woman, 43 00:02:35,488 --> 00:02:40,521 shouting, "Acid is great! Kill all the pigs!" 44 00:02:40,588 --> 00:02:42,455 It's a baffling story, the more you begin to look into it... 45 00:02:42,521 --> 00:02:43,721 NEWSWOMAN: Jeffrey MacDonald's life became 46 00:02:43,788 --> 00:02:46,288 the subject of a book, a popular miniseries... 47 00:02:46,355 --> 00:02:49,221 ...a television movie called Fatal Vision. 48 00:02:49,288 --> 00:02:51,255 NEWSMAN: The bestseller portrayed MacDonald 49 00:02:51,321 --> 00:02:52,688 as a cold‐blooded killer. 50 00:02:52,755 --> 00:02:54,588 NEWSMAN 2: Today MacDonald was sentenced 51 00:02:54,655 --> 00:02:55,921 to three life terms in prison. 52 00:02:55,988 --> 00:02:57,321 (echoing thud) 53 00:02:57,388 --> 00:03:00,155 MAN 2: Something really, really bad happened here. 54 00:03:00,221 --> 00:03:01,921 ‐It was a miscarriage of justice. ‐MacDONALD: Well... 55 00:03:01,988 --> 00:03:04,455 I cannot overcome Fatal Vision. 56 00:03:04,521 --> 00:03:06,621 MORRIS: What happens when a narrative 57 00:03:06,688 --> 00:03:08,755 takes the place of reality? 58 00:03:08,821 --> 00:03:11,555 It's almost as if nothing really happened in history 59 00:03:11,621 --> 00:03:14,621 unless it has been recorded in a movie. 60 00:03:14,688 --> 00:03:17,221 Or in a television series. 61 00:03:17,288 --> 00:03:19,421 NEWSWOMAN 2: A new book by acclaimed author and filmmaker 62 00:03:19,488 --> 00:03:22,921 Errol Morris says that the case may be more complicated 63 00:03:22,988 --> 00:03:24,721 ‐than previously thought. ‐MacDONALD: I did not... 64 00:03:24,788 --> 00:03:26,755 hurt my wife and my children. 65 00:03:26,821 --> 00:03:29,655 WOMAN: That evening I was wearing a blonde wig 66 00:03:29,721 --> 00:03:32,088 ‐and floppy hat. ‐MAN 3: An innocent man 67 00:03:32,155 --> 00:03:33,788 ‐is in jail today. ‐WOMAN 2: The man is guilty 68 00:03:33,855 --> 00:03:35,688 ‐as can be. ‐I am innocent. 69 00:03:35,755 --> 00:03:37,588 He's lucky I haven't gone out and killed him. 70 00:03:37,655 --> 00:03:39,921 MacDONALD (echoes): I am not that monster. 71 00:03:47,955 --> 00:03:50,155 (phone dialing) 72 00:03:54,721 --> 00:03:57,355 (line ringing) 73 00:04:02,521 --> 00:04:05,388 (phone ringing) 74 00:04:52,288 --> 00:04:54,721 MORRIS: How old were you when this happened? 75 00:04:54,788 --> 00:04:58,521 MICA: That was 1970‐‐ I would have been 23. 76 00:04:59,821 --> 00:05:01,688 I was an MP at Fort Bragg, 77 00:05:01,755 --> 00:05:04,255 1968 to 1971. 78 00:05:04,321 --> 00:05:07,988 And I was one of the first MPs 79 00:05:08,055 --> 00:05:10,921 in the house at 544 Castle Drive 80 00:05:10,988 --> 00:05:13,188 the night of the MacDonald murders. 81 00:05:23,388 --> 00:05:25,788 MICA: February 17, 1970, 82 00:05:25,855 --> 00:05:28,088 was, uh, quiet. 83 00:05:28,155 --> 00:05:30,521 It was drizzly, rainy, cold. 84 00:05:30,588 --> 00:05:32,655 (distorted police radio transmission) 85 00:05:32,721 --> 00:05:35,488 ‐(siren wailing) ‐About 3:40 in the morning, 86 00:05:35,555 --> 00:05:39,021 we got a radio call for a disturbance. 87 00:05:45,655 --> 00:05:47,588 When we get to the call, 88 00:05:47,655 --> 00:05:49,888 couple cars are already there. 89 00:05:49,955 --> 00:05:52,321 I run into Richard Tevere. 90 00:05:52,388 --> 00:05:54,588 We're standing on the steps in front of the entrance 91 00:05:54,655 --> 00:05:56,555 to Castle Drive, and I believed 92 00:05:56,621 --> 00:05:59,621 that there was a disturbance and possibly a stabbing. 93 00:06:05,021 --> 00:06:06,988 ‐(siren approaching in distance) ‐We couldn't... 94 00:06:07,055 --> 00:06:08,855 gain entry to the house, 95 00:06:08,921 --> 00:06:13,321 so I took my flashlight and I went around the back. 96 00:06:17,121 --> 00:06:19,321 The rear door was ajar. 97 00:06:20,521 --> 00:06:22,055 I pulled out my weapon, 98 00:06:22,121 --> 00:06:24,821 and I put a round in the chamber... 99 00:06:24,888 --> 00:06:27,921 not knowing if there was somebody still in the house. 100 00:06:34,021 --> 00:06:35,821 I took one step in to the... 101 00:06:35,888 --> 00:06:37,555 what was, I guess, the bedroom. 102 00:06:37,621 --> 00:06:40,888 There was blood on the wall, blood on the ceiling, 103 00:06:40,955 --> 00:06:43,155 blood all over the place. 104 00:06:45,155 --> 00:06:48,821 That's when I saw her, a woman lying on the ground, 105 00:06:48,888 --> 00:06:51,655 covered with blood, 106 00:06:51,721 --> 00:06:55,821 and, uh, a male lying next to her, 107 00:06:55,888 --> 00:07:00,255 who I didn't know at the time was Jeffrey MacDonald. 108 00:07:01,655 --> 00:07:03,255 At first I thought 109 00:07:03,321 --> 00:07:05,888 it was a homicide‐suicide. 110 00:07:05,955 --> 00:07:08,455 Uh, but then he started to move. 111 00:07:12,155 --> 00:07:13,688 I got down next to him 112 00:07:13,755 --> 00:07:16,788 and started giving him mouth‐to‐mouth resuscitation. 113 00:07:16,855 --> 00:07:19,855 He wakes up, and he's saying, "Check my kids, check my kids. 114 00:07:19,921 --> 00:07:22,321 I heard my kids." 115 00:07:22,388 --> 00:07:23,888 TEVERE: From the master bedroom, 116 00:07:23,955 --> 00:07:25,655 we just took a few steps, 117 00:07:25,721 --> 00:07:29,121 looked into the first, smaller bedroom, 118 00:07:29,188 --> 00:07:30,955 and I could see the girl. 119 00:07:31,021 --> 00:07:33,055 She was lifeless. 120 00:07:34,588 --> 00:07:36,955 And then I went into the second bedroom, 121 00:07:37,021 --> 00:07:40,155 and I saw, again, 122 00:07:40,221 --> 00:07:43,621 a very young girl, lifeless. 123 00:07:43,688 --> 00:07:46,621 There was blood dripping down the side of the bed, 124 00:07:46,688 --> 00:07:49,955 and there was a puddle of blood on the floor. 125 00:07:53,455 --> 00:07:54,588 I, uh... 126 00:07:54,655 --> 00:07:57,088 never in a million years expected to... 127 00:07:57,155 --> 00:07:59,155 walk in on something like that. 128 00:07:59,221 --> 00:08:01,788 So it was a lot to, really, 129 00:08:01,855 --> 00:08:04,055 process at the time. 130 00:08:07,255 --> 00:08:09,055 IVORY: Within five minutes, 131 00:08:09,121 --> 00:08:11,321 we were at the house. 132 00:08:13,621 --> 00:08:15,655 There was an Army ambulance 133 00:08:15,721 --> 00:08:17,721 and a number of MP cars 134 00:08:17,788 --> 00:08:20,021 already there. 135 00:08:30,621 --> 00:08:34,088 In the house, it looked like the living room 136 00:08:34,155 --> 00:08:37,188 had been caught up in some sort of struggle. 137 00:08:38,821 --> 00:08:42,955 There was a man on a gurney being wheeled out. 138 00:08:43,021 --> 00:08:45,388 He was unconscious. 139 00:08:49,855 --> 00:08:54,255 There was a female on the floor of the master bedroom. 140 00:08:57,488 --> 00:09:03,555 There was a blue pajama top laying across her chest. 141 00:09:03,621 --> 00:09:05,621 That was strange. 142 00:09:07,455 --> 00:09:09,588 And then, I noticed, in the headboard 143 00:09:09,655 --> 00:09:11,521 in the master bed, 144 00:09:11,588 --> 00:09:16,888 there was a bloody imprint of the word "pig." 145 00:09:21,988 --> 00:09:23,288 HODGES: It's the worst thing, 146 00:09:23,355 --> 00:09:26,088 in my 53 years in law enforcement, 147 00:09:26,155 --> 00:09:28,955 that I've ever walked into. 148 00:09:29,021 --> 00:09:34,255 Uh, it was a gruesome scene to see a, uh, 149 00:09:34,321 --> 00:09:38,955 a mother and two daughters mutilated like they were. 150 00:09:39,021 --> 00:09:42,388 And, uh, it's, uh... 151 00:09:42,455 --> 00:09:46,521 it's a s‐‐ it's a scene that you ain't gonna forget. 152 00:09:53,721 --> 00:09:55,855 Colette MacDonald was stabbed 153 00:09:55,921 --> 00:09:59,721 multiple times in the neck and chest. 154 00:09:59,788 --> 00:10:02,888 Both arms were broken. 155 00:10:02,955 --> 00:10:05,355 And she was pregnant. 156 00:10:07,155 --> 00:10:09,921 The older girl had been stabbed. 157 00:10:09,988 --> 00:10:14,355 And had a blunt instrument wound to her head. 158 00:10:14,421 --> 00:10:20,188 And the younger girl had been stabbed numerous times. 159 00:10:24,855 --> 00:10:26,655 IVORY: My partner did a 360 160 00:10:26,721 --> 00:10:28,455 around the house. 161 00:10:28,521 --> 00:10:30,855 He went out and he came back in and he said, 162 00:10:30,921 --> 00:10:33,255 "I think I found the murder weapons." 163 00:10:34,155 --> 00:10:36,488 There was a club, a knife 164 00:10:36,555 --> 00:10:37,988 and an ice pick. 165 00:10:40,188 --> 00:10:41,788 (siren wailing in distance) 166 00:10:41,855 --> 00:10:44,921 HODGES: At that point, I went to the hospital 167 00:10:44,988 --> 00:10:47,355 to try to interview MacDonald. 168 00:10:49,288 --> 00:10:54,088 When I got there, I was briefed by a doctor. 169 00:10:54,155 --> 00:10:56,088 GEMMA: There were some scrapes 170 00:10:56,155 --> 00:10:58,655 on his abdomen and on his chest, 171 00:10:58,721 --> 00:11:01,888 some small puncture wounds which didn't seem 172 00:11:01,955 --> 00:11:04,688 to be very serious at all. 173 00:11:04,755 --> 00:11:06,855 It's not life‐threatening. 174 00:11:08,888 --> 00:11:10,688 He was... 175 00:11:10,755 --> 00:11:12,888 in no real acute distress. 176 00:11:14,521 --> 00:11:18,155 HODGES: When I went in, we identified who we were, 177 00:11:18,221 --> 00:11:22,955 and said, "What can you tell us about what happened?" 178 00:11:29,255 --> 00:11:33,855 He said that he and Colette had been listening to a record. 179 00:11:33,921 --> 00:11:38,855 He dozed off on the couch, and she had went to bed. 180 00:11:41,055 --> 00:11:43,221 He heard Colette hollering, 181 00:11:43,288 --> 00:11:45,555 "Jeff, Jeff, why are they doing this to me?" 182 00:11:47,655 --> 00:11:49,855 He woke up. 183 00:11:51,455 --> 00:11:57,288 Hippies had broke into the house and attacked him and his family. 184 00:11:58,255 --> 00:12:00,921 He'd seen two white males, 185 00:12:00,988 --> 00:12:02,955 black guy in an Army jacket, 186 00:12:03,021 --> 00:12:06,821 and a woman with long blonde hair and a white floppy hat, 187 00:12:06,888 --> 00:12:08,455 wearing boots. 188 00:12:08,521 --> 00:12:09,688 And she was saying, 189 00:12:09,755 --> 00:12:11,821 "Acid is groovy, acid is groovy," 190 00:12:11,888 --> 00:12:13,955 and was holding a candle. 191 00:12:14,988 --> 00:12:18,088 He had tried to fight 'em off. 192 00:12:29,588 --> 00:12:30,688 Somehow, my pajama top, 193 00:12:30,755 --> 00:12:32,188 I don't know if it was ripped forward 194 00:12:32,255 --> 00:12:34,088 or pulled over my head. 195 00:12:34,155 --> 00:12:36,121 ‐COLETTE (echoing): Jeff! ‐MacDONALD: All of a sudden, it was in my way. 196 00:12:36,188 --> 00:12:38,621 ‐I couldn't get my hand free. ‐COLETTE: Why are they doing this to me?! 197 00:12:38,688 --> 00:12:40,888 MacDONALD: I was grappling with him, and I saw, 198 00:12:40,955 --> 00:12:43,555 you know, a‐a blade. 199 00:12:43,621 --> 00:12:45,688 I‐I really didn't even defend myself. 200 00:12:45,755 --> 00:12:48,221 It was really too‐too fast. 201 00:12:48,288 --> 00:12:49,955 KIMBERLY (echoing): Daddy! Daddy! 202 00:12:50,021 --> 00:12:51,488 And all this time, 203 00:12:51,555 --> 00:12:53,221 I was hearing screams. 204 00:12:53,288 --> 00:12:56,288 KIMBERLY (echoing): Daddy! Daddy! 205 00:12:59,421 --> 00:13:01,955 ♪♪♪♪ 206 00:13:04,588 --> 00:13:07,555 Next thing I remember was lying in the hallway 207 00:13:07,621 --> 00:13:11,021 at the end of the hallway floor. 208 00:13:11,088 --> 00:13:15,421 And I‐I went down, um, to the bedroom. 209 00:13:16,588 --> 00:13:19,721 My wife was lying on‐on the floor, 210 00:13:19,788 --> 00:13:21,521 next to the bed. 211 00:13:22,988 --> 00:13:26,088 I tried to give her artificial respiration, 212 00:13:26,155 --> 00:13:27,888 but the air was... 213 00:13:27,955 --> 00:13:29,355 was coming out of her chest. 214 00:13:29,421 --> 00:13:30,821 So, uh... 215 00:13:30,888 --> 00:13:32,721 I went, picked up the phone, 216 00:13:32,788 --> 00:13:36,655 and, uh, I said my name was Captain MacDonald 217 00:13:36,721 --> 00:13:39,121 and I was at 544 Castle Drive 218 00:13:39,188 --> 00:13:42,621 and I needed a doctor and an ambulance. 219 00:13:43,655 --> 00:13:44,921 I dropped the phone, 220 00:13:44,988 --> 00:13:46,988 and I went back to check the kids, 221 00:13:47,055 --> 00:13:49,988 check their pulses and stuff and, uh... 222 00:13:50,055 --> 00:13:51,388 (inhales) 223 00:13:51,455 --> 00:13:52,588 I don't know. 224 00:13:56,555 --> 00:13:59,521 It kept hitting me that, really, nothing 225 00:13:59,588 --> 00:14:02,121 had been solved when I called the operator. 226 00:14:02,188 --> 00:14:04,288 So, I went in, you know, into the kitchen, 227 00:14:04,355 --> 00:14:07,588 picked up that phone and a sergeant came on. 228 00:14:07,655 --> 00:14:09,588 He said, "Can I help you?" 229 00:14:09,655 --> 00:14:12,955 So I told him that I needed a doctor and an ambulance, 230 00:14:13,021 --> 00:14:14,955 that some people had been stabbed, 231 00:14:15,021 --> 00:14:18,221 and I thought I was going to die. 232 00:14:22,355 --> 00:14:25,788 By this time, I was finding it really hard to breathe, 233 00:14:25,855 --> 00:14:31,188 and, uh, and, um... 234 00:14:31,255 --> 00:14:33,888 The next thing I knew, an MP was giving me 235 00:14:33,955 --> 00:14:36,755 mouth‐to‐mouth resuscitation 236 00:14:36,821 --> 00:14:40,521 next to, next to my wife. 237 00:14:51,321 --> 00:14:54,588 What a strange, strange, strange story. 238 00:14:54,655 --> 00:14:57,988 A product of the times, the craziness of the times. 239 00:14:58,055 --> 00:15:01,855 Remember how violent and crazy the '60s were. 240 00:15:01,921 --> 00:15:05,221 NIXON: Tonight, in South Vietnam, American units 241 00:15:05,288 --> 00:15:06,955 will attack the headquarters for... 242 00:15:07,021 --> 00:15:08,988 Mine eyes have seen... 243 00:15:09,055 --> 00:15:11,355 Dr. Martin Luther King has been shot to death. 244 00:15:11,421 --> 00:15:14,188 NEWS ANCHOR: Senator Robert Francis Kennedy died today. 245 00:15:14,255 --> 00:15:17,388 NEWS ANCHOR 2: Guardsmen opened fire on the students, killing... 246 00:15:17,455 --> 00:15:20,588 MORRIS: It was a time of confusion and anger. 247 00:15:20,655 --> 00:15:23,388 With each escalation, the world comes closer 248 00:15:23,455 --> 00:15:25,988 to the brink of cosmic disaster. 249 00:15:27,088 --> 00:15:30,921 And then, we have the Manson murders. 250 00:15:30,988 --> 00:15:32,955 NEWS ANCHOR: In a scene described as reminiscent 251 00:15:33,021 --> 00:15:34,721 of a weird religious rite, 252 00:15:34,788 --> 00:15:38,388 five persons, including actress Sharon Tate, were found dead. 253 00:15:38,455 --> 00:15:40,355 Miss Tate was eight months pregnant. 254 00:15:40,421 --> 00:15:43,255 Not far away, a middle‐aged couple was found murdered. 255 00:15:43,321 --> 00:15:46,488 MORRIS: This was one of the cases of the century. It's everywhere. 256 00:15:46,555 --> 00:15:49,821 NEWS ANCHOR: The word "WAR" had been carved on his chest. 257 00:15:49,888 --> 00:15:53,321 With blood, the killer had scrawled "Death to pigs." 258 00:15:53,388 --> 00:15:59,221 MORRIS: The Mansons are arrested in December of 1969, 259 00:15:59,288 --> 00:16:03,055 just months before the MacDonald murders occurred, 260 00:16:03,121 --> 00:16:06,121 in February of 1970. 261 00:16:06,188 --> 00:16:09,121 The Army has suspects, but no prime suspects 262 00:16:09,188 --> 00:16:11,121 in the bizarre murders of the wife 263 00:16:11,188 --> 00:16:13,488 and two young daughters of an Army doctor. 264 00:16:13,555 --> 00:16:18,088 Captain Jeffrey MacDonald was reported in fair condition. 265 00:16:18,155 --> 00:16:19,455 TEVERE: We immediately started looking 266 00:16:19,521 --> 00:16:22,255 for these crazed people running around Fayetteville, 267 00:16:22,321 --> 00:16:25,388 emulating what had happened in California. 268 00:16:29,255 --> 00:16:32,755 It put the entire Fort Bragg and Fayetteville area 269 00:16:32,821 --> 00:16:35,221 into a, you know, panic alert. 270 00:16:36,188 --> 00:16:38,555 Everybody was concerned about, 271 00:16:38,621 --> 00:16:41,355 you know, "Would they come back into the housing area again?" 272 00:16:41,421 --> 00:16:43,388 You know, "What do I do to protect myself?" 273 00:16:43,455 --> 00:16:45,488 What about my family? What about my kids?" 274 00:16:47,521 --> 00:16:49,455 HODGES: When I went home, my wife 275 00:16:49,521 --> 00:16:52,921 had a butcher knife and a police pistol under a pillow. 276 00:16:52,988 --> 00:16:54,688 She figured if it was hippies, I guess, 277 00:16:54,755 --> 00:16:57,755 that they were still running loose out there, you know? 278 00:16:57,821 --> 00:17:01,321 And if they did it one time, they could do it again. 279 00:17:02,521 --> 00:17:07,155 Fort Bragg is part of Fayetteville. 280 00:17:07,221 --> 00:17:11,355 Fayetteville was called "Fayettenam" at that time. 281 00:17:11,421 --> 00:17:15,555 TEVERE: It was a melting pot for a lot of different scenarios. 282 00:17:15,621 --> 00:17:17,721 There were hippies, and there were a lot of guys 283 00:17:17,788 --> 00:17:21,388 that came back from Vietnam that had drug issues. 284 00:17:26,421 --> 00:17:29,021 HODGES: There was an area called Haymount Hill 285 00:17:29,088 --> 00:17:32,155 that was really bad for drugs. 286 00:17:33,355 --> 00:17:35,055 We went there and rounded up 287 00:17:35,121 --> 00:17:37,455 a bunch of hippies that halfway matched 288 00:17:37,521 --> 00:17:39,521 the description that MacDonald had given. 289 00:17:41,455 --> 00:17:43,755 And none of them denied they were on drugs, 290 00:17:43,821 --> 00:17:45,255 but they all denied 291 00:17:45,321 --> 00:17:47,621 having anything to do with the murders. 292 00:17:47,688 --> 00:17:51,621 Or knowing anybody fitting the descriptions. 293 00:17:55,621 --> 00:17:57,621 Then, her name came up. 294 00:17:59,655 --> 00:18:01,855 Helena Stoeckley. 295 00:18:03,621 --> 00:18:07,188 A city police officer named Prince Beasley 296 00:18:07,255 --> 00:18:10,921 clamed that Helena fit this description. 297 00:18:10,988 --> 00:18:14,288 I had seen Helena on many occasions, 298 00:18:14,355 --> 00:18:16,521 with these other people that, uh, 299 00:18:16,588 --> 00:18:19,555 Dr. MacDonald gave the description of. 300 00:19:13,655 --> 00:19:16,288 IVORY: Prince Beasley called my office, 301 00:19:16,355 --> 00:19:19,055 so I made it a point to go down and talk to him. 302 00:19:20,921 --> 00:19:24,121 When I got down there, she was there. 303 00:19:25,721 --> 00:19:31,388 I interviewed her and found no leads at all. 304 00:19:31,455 --> 00:19:36,555 Absolutely no information that would tie her to the case. 305 00:19:44,155 --> 00:19:48,221 It was just‐‐ added more to the confusion. 306 00:20:03,288 --> 00:20:04,555 IVORY: It was... 307 00:20:04,621 --> 00:20:07,188 about halfway through the first day. 308 00:20:11,088 --> 00:20:13,821 At that point, we went back to the house 309 00:20:13,888 --> 00:20:18,021 to take a closer look at the crime scene... 310 00:20:20,588 --> 00:20:22,021 ...to find out 311 00:20:22,088 --> 00:20:25,288 what the story was, what actually happened there. 312 00:20:27,121 --> 00:20:32,355 HODGES: It didn't really add up to anybody broke into the house. 313 00:20:32,421 --> 00:20:37,021 What had happened, it happened inside that house. 314 00:20:51,588 --> 00:20:54,888 When you get right down to it, MacDonald's the only one 315 00:20:54,955 --> 00:20:57,521 that possibly could've done it. 316 00:21:03,655 --> 00:21:07,655 CER: This is CBS News with Walter Cronkite. 317 00:21:07,721 --> 00:21:11,121 The Army has changed Green Beret doctor Jeffrey MacDonald 318 00:21:11,188 --> 00:21:12,821 with the murders of his pregnant wife 319 00:21:12,888 --> 00:21:14,255 and their two young daughters 320 00:21:14,321 --> 00:21:16,655 of Fort Bragg, North Carolina last February. 321 00:21:16,721 --> 00:21:18,488 It said the case will be referred... 322 00:21:18,555 --> 00:21:20,188 NEWS ANCHOR: A military Article 32 hearing 323 00:21:20,255 --> 00:21:22,688 is scheduled to begin at Fort Bragg 324 00:21:22,755 --> 00:21:25,955 with Special Forces captain Jeffrey MacDonald. 325 00:21:26,021 --> 00:21:28,888 NEWS ANCHOR 2: An Article 32 is the military equivalent 326 00:21:28,955 --> 00:21:31,955 of a civilian preliminary hearing. 327 00:21:34,221 --> 00:21:38,121 MALLEY: I was just getting ready to leave for infantry school 328 00:21:38,188 --> 00:21:43,655 when I saw the story about the murder at Fort Bragg. 329 00:21:43,721 --> 00:21:45,721 I thought, "You know, he looks familiar." 330 00:21:45,788 --> 00:21:48,555 And then I read it, and I was shocked. 331 00:21:48,621 --> 00:21:51,721 I thought, "This has really... 332 00:21:51,788 --> 00:21:53,321 "got to be wrong. 333 00:21:53,388 --> 00:21:55,455 "I mean, I don't know why it's wrong, or how it's wrong, 334 00:21:55,521 --> 00:21:58,855 "but it's got‐‐ I mean, why would Jeff MacDonald 335 00:21:58,921 --> 00:22:00,621 do something like this?" 336 00:22:00,688 --> 00:22:04,988 And I kept saying, "I h‐‐ To me, it makes no sense, 337 00:22:05,055 --> 00:22:07,255 because I know the guy." 338 00:22:11,588 --> 00:22:15,021 Jeff was my roommate sophomore year, 339 00:22:15,088 --> 00:22:17,688 in, um, i‐in college. 340 00:22:17,755 --> 00:22:19,221 We went to Princeton, 341 00:22:19,288 --> 00:22:21,755 but Jeff left at the end of our junior year 342 00:22:21,821 --> 00:22:25,255 to go to medical school, and I went to law school. 343 00:22:25,321 --> 00:22:26,421 Y‐You could think, you know, 344 00:22:26,488 --> 00:22:28,055 "I wonder if Jeff's got‐‐ gone crazy. 345 00:22:28,121 --> 00:22:29,955 I wonder if Jeff's taking drugs. I wonder..." 346 00:22:30,021 --> 00:22:32,521 Y‐You know, th‐‐ all those things you can think of, 347 00:22:32,588 --> 00:22:34,555 'cause I haven't s‐‐ I hadn't seen him in a year or‐‐ 348 00:22:34,621 --> 00:22:36,155 more than a year. 349 00:22:36,221 --> 00:22:41,188 But none of that made any sense, about the person that I knew. 350 00:22:42,888 --> 00:22:44,421 Then I got a letter from Jeff 351 00:22:44,488 --> 00:22:47,021 saying that he is gonna request me to be 352 00:22:47,088 --> 00:22:49,321 part of the defense team. 353 00:22:51,555 --> 00:22:56,155 I told him, "You know, I'm barely out of law school." 354 00:22:56,221 --> 00:22:58,988 He needed to have a trial lawyer. 355 00:22:59,055 --> 00:23:01,855 NEWS ANCHOR: The mother of Green Beret captain Jeffrey MacDonald 356 00:23:01,921 --> 00:23:05,688 has hired a lawyer to defend her 26‐year‐old son. 357 00:23:05,755 --> 00:23:08,788 The lawyer, Bernard Segal, says he has started 358 00:23:08,855 --> 00:23:11,855 his own investigation of February's slayings. 359 00:23:11,921 --> 00:23:13,388 (excited chatter) 360 00:23:13,455 --> 00:23:16,221 SEGAL: With all my heart, I tell every one of them 361 00:23:16,288 --> 00:23:18,955 that Jeffrey MacDonald did not kill his family. 362 00:23:20,688 --> 00:23:24,421 MALLEY: Bernie Segal had a reputation as being 363 00:23:24,488 --> 00:23:27,188 one of the upcoming criminal trial lawyers in Philadelphia. 364 00:23:27,255 --> 00:23:31,221 SEGAL: He is innocent of the charges against him. 365 00:23:34,621 --> 00:23:39,521 MORRIS: So, Cliff, why did you sit down to do this interview? 366 00:23:39,588 --> 00:23:42,521 You asked me. You're the only ones who have. 367 00:23:42,588 --> 00:23:46,321 Nobody ever asked me. I was sort of surprised. 368 00:23:51,288 --> 00:23:55,621 Article 32s are normally quiet investigations. 369 00:23:59,288 --> 00:24:03,455 But this case was a big deal. 370 00:24:04,655 --> 00:24:06,455 And so, 371 00:24:06,521 --> 00:24:11,521 when they asked me to be the lead prosecutor, 372 00:24:11,588 --> 00:24:14,955 hot dog that I was, I said, "Gee, that'd be wonderful." 373 00:24:15,021 --> 00:24:18,621 ♪♪ ♪♪ 374 00:24:21,388 --> 00:24:23,321 DOUTHAT: You've got to realize there was 375 00:24:23,388 --> 00:24:25,455 an anti‐Army feeling at the time. 376 00:24:25,521 --> 00:24:27,055 ♪♪ ♪♪ 377 00:24:27,121 --> 00:24:30,088 In this case had so much publicity. 378 00:24:30,155 --> 00:24:32,055 It was on the headlines every day. 379 00:24:32,121 --> 00:24:34,421 It had everything‐‐ Ivy League school, 380 00:24:34,488 --> 00:24:38,255 doctor, Green Beret, all‐American boy, 381 00:24:38,321 --> 00:24:39,888 pregnant wife, children, 382 00:24:39,955 --> 00:24:42,988 homicide, and the 383 00:24:43,055 --> 00:24:46,088 pressure was on the Army to perform. 384 00:24:50,688 --> 00:24:53,188 ♪♪ ♪♪ 385 00:24:53,255 --> 00:24:56,088 BEALE: This tragic murder happened, 386 00:24:56,155 --> 00:24:57,621 and it was just awful. 387 00:24:57,688 --> 00:25:00,155 But, uh, fortunately, I was in the right place 388 00:25:00,221 --> 00:25:02,155 at the right time and the general offered me 389 00:25:02,221 --> 00:25:04,221 the chance to be the judge. 390 00:25:07,055 --> 00:25:10,021 Of course, when I say "judge," technically I was 391 00:25:10,088 --> 00:25:13,721 the legal advisor to the Article 32 officer... 392 00:25:13,788 --> 00:25:16,321 Colonel Rock. 393 00:25:17,655 --> 00:25:21,088 This Article 32was the biggest oneI've ever seen. 394 00:25:21,155 --> 00:25:25,088 We knew‐‐ we being the defense team‐‐ 395 00:25:25,155 --> 00:25:27,321 we're not rolling over here. 396 00:25:36,355 --> 00:25:38,688 SOMERS: I don't think any of us 397 00:25:38,755 --> 00:25:42,188 at that point had a real grasp 398 00:25:42,255 --> 00:25:46,488 of just how complex this was going to turn out to be. 399 00:25:48,255 --> 00:25:50,988 ROCK: This hearing will come to order. 400 00:25:53,088 --> 00:25:55,421 SOMERS: In order to establish 401 00:25:55,488 --> 00:25:57,955 what was found from the beginning, 402 00:25:58,021 --> 00:26:00,055 you have to call the witnesses 403 00:26:00,121 --> 00:26:02,355 who were on the scene at the beginning. 404 00:26:05,188 --> 00:26:07,888 And that would be Mica. 405 00:26:07,955 --> 00:26:11,088 The government calls Specialist Fourth Class Mica. 406 00:26:12,488 --> 00:26:15,588 MICA: When they started the Article 32, 407 00:26:15,655 --> 00:26:18,455 I testified the 5th of July. 408 00:26:18,521 --> 00:26:20,121 It was my birthday. 409 00:26:20,188 --> 00:26:23,121 SOMERS: What was the weather like that morning? 410 00:26:23,188 --> 00:26:25,488 MICA: It was raining. 411 00:26:25,555 --> 00:26:28,021 It rained off and on all night long. 412 00:26:28,088 --> 00:26:29,988 SOMERS: Did you note any unusual 413 00:26:30,055 --> 00:26:31,655 pedestrians or disturbances 414 00:26:31,721 --> 00:26:34,021 in the early morning of the 17th of February 415 00:26:34,088 --> 00:26:36,521 in that Castle Drive area? 416 00:26:37,821 --> 00:26:39,555 MICA: No, sir. 417 00:26:39,621 --> 00:26:42,455 SOMERS: According to Captain McDonald's story, 418 00:26:42,521 --> 00:26:46,855 four intruders came into his house. 419 00:26:49,321 --> 00:26:51,155 Did you see any mud or foreign debris 420 00:26:51,221 --> 00:26:53,755 on the floor of the hall, which traversed the living room? 421 00:26:53,821 --> 00:26:56,155 MICA: No, sir. 422 00:26:56,221 --> 00:26:57,855 SOMERS: I was trying to establish 423 00:26:57,921 --> 00:26:59,721 an amazing lack 424 00:26:59,788 --> 00:27:02,655 of evidence of anyone 425 00:27:02,721 --> 00:27:04,621 having come into that place. 426 00:27:04,688 --> 00:27:07,288 When you glanced into the living room, 427 00:27:07,355 --> 00:27:10,321 dining room, kitchen area, did you notice any 428 00:27:10,388 --> 00:27:12,888 particular disarray in the dining room area? 429 00:27:12,955 --> 00:27:15,588 MICA: Not in the dining room. 430 00:27:15,655 --> 00:27:18,021 SOMERS: The dining room could not have been 431 00:27:18,088 --> 00:27:21,121 more than six feet at most away from where all 432 00:27:21,188 --> 00:27:24,221 this fighting was taking place. 433 00:27:27,121 --> 00:27:29,588 Yet cards, which were standing up on the table, 434 00:27:29,655 --> 00:27:31,321 are still standing. 435 00:27:31,388 --> 00:27:34,021 Which I find almost impossible 436 00:27:34,088 --> 00:27:37,521 if there had been a fight there. 437 00:27:37,588 --> 00:27:39,155 MICA: In the living room, there was 438 00:27:39,221 --> 00:27:41,355 a coffee table overturned. 439 00:27:41,421 --> 00:27:43,355 SOMERS: How was it lying, on its top or‐‐? 440 00:27:43,421 --> 00:27:45,388 MICA: On its edge. 441 00:27:45,455 --> 00:27:48,721 SOMERS: The CID investigators knocked that coffee table 442 00:27:48,788 --> 00:27:50,621 over again and again 443 00:27:50,688 --> 00:27:53,755 and again. 444 00:27:53,821 --> 00:27:55,321 It always fell on its top. 445 00:27:55,388 --> 00:27:59,055 How this table could have been sitting on its side 446 00:27:59,121 --> 00:28:01,555 on top of this stack of magazines 447 00:28:01,621 --> 00:28:03,621 as a result of being 448 00:28:03,688 --> 00:28:05,621 knocked over in a fight 449 00:28:05,688 --> 00:28:07,188 is inconceivable. 450 00:28:07,255 --> 00:28:09,955 I have no further questions. 451 00:28:11,821 --> 00:28:14,455 MALLEY: The prosecution said, "Everybody knows 452 00:28:14,521 --> 00:28:16,955 that the guy who is accused did it anyway," 453 00:28:17,021 --> 00:28:22,588 and so, they felt they have an authority that nobody else has. 454 00:28:22,655 --> 00:28:26,055 They had no idea, no idea, 455 00:28:26,121 --> 00:28:28,988 what real defense counsel could do. 456 00:28:29,855 --> 00:28:31,288 SEGAL: At this time, 457 00:28:31,355 --> 00:28:32,955 I want to show you some photographs 458 00:28:33,021 --> 00:28:35,455 that have been supplied to the defense by the government. 459 00:28:36,221 --> 00:28:37,421 DOUTHAT: We got 460 00:28:37,488 --> 00:28:40,321 the witness statements and whatnot from the various MPs 461 00:28:40,388 --> 00:28:42,055 and the crime scene photographs, 462 00:28:42,121 --> 00:28:45,388 and they didn't necessarily jive. 463 00:28:45,455 --> 00:28:48,521 SEGAL: Specialist Mica, do you ever recall 464 00:28:48,588 --> 00:28:52,188 seeing the telephone in that particular fashion? 465 00:28:52,255 --> 00:28:54,121 MICA: Yes, sir. 466 00:28:54,188 --> 00:28:58,121 SEGAL: Do you ever recall the handset being where it appears to be 467 00:28:58,188 --> 00:28:59,555 in this photograph? 468 00:28:59,621 --> 00:29:02,788 MICA: No, sir, not that I remember. 469 00:29:02,855 --> 00:29:04,488 What happened was, 470 00:29:04,555 --> 00:29:08,621 photographer came in, he started taking photos... 471 00:29:10,955 --> 00:29:14,221 ...and he got so upset and sick that he couldn't continue. 472 00:29:14,288 --> 00:29:17,288 So you had one set of photographs i‐in the beginning, 473 00:29:17,355 --> 00:29:19,621 then you had a time lapse 474 00:29:19,688 --> 00:29:22,555 by the time they brought a second photographer in. 475 00:29:22,621 --> 00:29:27,055 And they had two different sets of photos they were using. 476 00:29:29,388 --> 00:29:31,288 DOUTHAT: To me, the first thing you do is secure 477 00:29:31,355 --> 00:29:33,788 the crime scene, and that was not done. 478 00:29:33,855 --> 00:29:36,988 SEGAL: What is different in this photograph 479 00:29:37,055 --> 00:29:39,255 than as what you recall seeing? 480 00:29:39,321 --> 00:29:42,388 MICA: Well, it shows this red thing here. 481 00:29:42,455 --> 00:29:44,221 I thought it was more or less down the steps 482 00:29:44,288 --> 00:29:45,888 in front of the stairs. 483 00:29:45,955 --> 00:29:47,421 MALLEY: Bernie's view was, "You know, 484 00:29:47,488 --> 00:29:51,188 "once you start pulling those little threads out, 485 00:29:51,255 --> 00:29:55,188 the garment might fall apart," and it turned out, it did. 486 00:29:55,255 --> 00:29:58,721 SEGAL: What is different about that white flower pot 487 00:29:58,788 --> 00:30:01,255 in the photograph than as what you recall seeing? 488 00:30:01,321 --> 00:30:02,988 In this photograph, it is standing 489 00:30:03,055 --> 00:30:05,888 on what appears to be its base. 490 00:30:05,955 --> 00:30:08,155 I remember it as being on its side. 491 00:30:08,221 --> 00:30:10,555 BEALE: There was a flower pot 492 00:30:10,621 --> 00:30:12,055 that got stood up. 493 00:30:12,121 --> 00:30:13,521 They had moved the clothing. 494 00:30:13,588 --> 00:30:15,188 Somebody put the phone 495 00:30:15,255 --> 00:30:17,121 back on the hook. 496 00:30:17,188 --> 00:30:18,621 It really started to raise questions 497 00:30:18,688 --> 00:30:22,121 in your mind of, "Gee whiz, what were they doing? 498 00:30:22,188 --> 00:30:24,055 Who was moving all this stuff?" 499 00:30:24,121 --> 00:30:27,821 SEGAL: I would like, if you could assist us, Specialist Mica, 500 00:30:27,888 --> 00:30:30,221 to help us determine 501 00:30:30,288 --> 00:30:32,688 how many people were in the MacDonald house 502 00:30:32,755 --> 00:30:35,788 at the time the medics came and removed Captain MacDonald. 503 00:30:35,855 --> 00:30:39,055 MICA: There were just too many people in there. 504 00:30:39,121 --> 00:30:40,955 At one point, somebody said, 505 00:30:41,021 --> 00:30:42,521 "How long is it gonna be before they, you know, 506 00:30:42,588 --> 00:30:44,788 remove the bodies," they said, "Oh, it's gonna be hours," 507 00:30:44,855 --> 00:30:46,321 and this guy's like, "Ugh." 508 00:30:46,388 --> 00:30:50,321 He walked across, sat on the couch. 509 00:30:50,388 --> 00:30:52,855 I said, "Get off the couch." 510 00:30:52,921 --> 00:30:54,388 SEGAL: That white flower pot, 511 00:30:54,455 --> 00:30:57,321 how had it gotten from its position 512 00:30:57,388 --> 00:31:00,721 lying on its side to standing on its base? 513 00:31:00,788 --> 00:31:04,921 MICA: I believe it was that man who sat on the couch 514 00:31:04,988 --> 00:31:07,355 I believe he sat it upright. 515 00:31:09,021 --> 00:31:13,455 SEGAL: I have nothing further of this witness, sir, at this time. 516 00:31:15,955 --> 00:31:17,555 DOUTHAT: Once we started to cut 517 00:31:17,621 --> 00:31:21,088 the feet out from under them, we began to feel pretty good. 518 00:31:21,155 --> 00:31:22,488 Bernie decided, 519 00:31:22,555 --> 00:31:24,155 "Let's go back to the table going over. 520 00:31:24,221 --> 00:31:26,588 That was a big deal for them." 521 00:31:26,655 --> 00:31:28,555 And if you look at the photographs, 522 00:31:28,621 --> 00:31:33,421 there was a rocking chair in front of the table. 523 00:31:33,488 --> 00:31:36,421 And we figured, "Wait a minute, what happened was, 524 00:31:36,488 --> 00:31:40,155 "is the‐the coffee table hit the chair, spun the chair around, 525 00:31:40,221 --> 00:31:42,555 "it stopped the momentum, the magazines fell 526 00:31:42,621 --> 00:31:44,721 and the coffee table landed on top of 'em." 527 00:31:44,788 --> 00:31:48,555 We asked Colonel Rock to try and settle it. 528 00:31:48,621 --> 00:31:51,988 BEALE: Colonel Rock and I went over 529 00:31:52,055 --> 00:31:54,755 to the quarters where the murders took place. 530 00:31:54,821 --> 00:31:58,488 He wanted to try this little experiment with this table. 531 00:32:05,321 --> 00:32:07,488 How'd it land‐land on its side? 532 00:32:07,555 --> 00:32:11,455 He kind of laughed and said, "So much for that theory." 533 00:32:11,521 --> 00:32:13,755 (indistinct chatter) 534 00:32:13,821 --> 00:32:17,621 SEGAL: The crime scene handling by the, uh, Army CID 535 00:32:17,688 --> 00:32:21,421 is a primary example of a crime scene investigation gone mad. 536 00:32:21,488 --> 00:32:25,821 27 different people marched through the crime scene, 537 00:32:25,888 --> 00:32:30,455 destroying a great deal of what was potential evidence there, 538 00:32:30,521 --> 00:32:31,955 without a doubt. 539 00:32:47,188 --> 00:32:50,421 MORRIS: The deaths were horrible. 540 00:32:50,488 --> 00:32:56,155 And we're talking about his wife, his children. 541 00:32:56,221 --> 00:33:00,055 We're talking about two little girls. 542 00:33:00,121 --> 00:33:03,455 Kimberley and Kristen, five and two. 543 00:33:06,555 --> 00:33:08,688 If Jeffrey indeed was responsible 544 00:33:08,755 --> 00:33:10,955 for these murders... 545 00:33:13,655 --> 00:33:17,688 ...what was the motivation? 546 00:33:17,755 --> 00:33:20,255 Why did he do it? 547 00:33:23,121 --> 00:33:24,721 ROCK: Does counsel for the accused 548 00:33:24,788 --> 00:33:28,521 have any further witnesses at this time? 549 00:33:28,588 --> 00:33:32,455 SEGAL: Yes, sir. Mr. Kassab, please. 550 00:33:32,521 --> 00:33:35,821 Would you state what relationship you are 551 00:33:35,888 --> 00:33:37,721 to Captain Jeffrey MacDonald? 552 00:33:37,788 --> 00:33:40,588 I am his father‐in‐law. 553 00:33:40,655 --> 00:33:42,321 DOUTHAT: Did you ever hear Jeff MacDonald 554 00:33:42,388 --> 00:33:47,155 raise his voice to your daughter in anger? 555 00:33:47,221 --> 00:33:49,288 FREDDY: No. Never at any time. 556 00:33:49,355 --> 00:33:54,255 They were the happiest I'd ever seen them. 557 00:33:54,321 --> 00:33:57,721 MALLEY: We interviewed a lot of his friends, his family, 558 00:33:57,788 --> 00:34:01,821 his‐his former patients, to show what kind of a guy he was. 559 00:34:01,888 --> 00:34:05,521 Everybody liked Jeff, 560 00:34:05,588 --> 00:34:09,288 including Freddy Kassab. 561 00:34:09,355 --> 00:34:11,888 SEGAL: Can you describe his attitude and conduct 562 00:34:11,955 --> 00:34:13,355 towards his children? 563 00:34:13,421 --> 00:34:16,155 FREDDY: Every time you'd turn around, 564 00:34:16,221 --> 00:34:18,921 he had one of the girls playing with him. 565 00:34:20,788 --> 00:34:23,688 MAN: Do you and Mildred miss Colette? 566 00:34:23,755 --> 00:34:25,455 Oh, God, yes. 567 00:34:26,488 --> 00:34:28,455 And the children. 568 00:34:33,321 --> 00:34:35,921 MAN: Life hasn't been quite the same? 569 00:34:35,988 --> 00:34:39,988 FREDDY: It's never been the same since that day. 570 00:35:00,688 --> 00:35:04,521 STEVENSON: I remember standing there, waiting, 571 00:35:04,588 --> 00:35:06,588 and then seeing... 572 00:35:07,755 --> 00:35:09,855 ...beside my sister's coffin, 573 00:35:09,921 --> 00:35:13,721 two little coffins about this big 574 00:35:13,788 --> 00:35:16,121 being put into the ground. 575 00:35:16,188 --> 00:35:21,388 It broke me. It broke me. 576 00:35:27,355 --> 00:35:29,455 ‐MORRIS: When we spoke the first time... ‐Yes. 577 00:35:29,521 --> 00:35:31,155 MORRIS: ...you seemed at wit's end 578 00:35:31,221 --> 00:35:33,755 with this constant retelling of this story. 579 00:35:33,821 --> 00:35:39,588 Every year, somebody wants to throw a rope around my legs 580 00:35:39,655 --> 00:35:42,588 and drag me through the family pool of blood again, 581 00:35:42,655 --> 00:35:45,621 and I have to go through all of it and learning too many things, 582 00:35:45,688 --> 00:35:49,288 uh‐‐ remembering things I don't want to remember anymore, 583 00:35:49,355 --> 00:35:50,855 and I'm not gonna do it anymore. 584 00:35:50,921 --> 00:35:52,955 That was... that was it. 585 00:35:55,388 --> 00:36:01,055 But I've come to understand that it's not going to go away. 586 00:36:01,121 --> 00:36:02,988 I'll tell my story. 587 00:36:03,821 --> 00:36:06,355 I'll tell what I can. 588 00:36:07,588 --> 00:36:10,521 ♪♪ ♪♪ 589 00:36:12,121 --> 00:36:15,255 My mother wanted a girl desperately. 590 00:36:16,588 --> 00:36:18,621 She had had stillborn children. 591 00:36:19,921 --> 00:36:22,488 Each one was named Colette. 592 00:36:22,555 --> 00:36:26,188 I remember one of my mother's Catholic friends saying, 593 00:36:26,255 --> 00:36:28,888 "How will God ever know which Colette is which?" 594 00:36:28,955 --> 00:36:30,788 Tried to deter her. 595 00:36:30,855 --> 00:36:32,455 "Don't do another Colette." 596 00:36:33,988 --> 00:36:37,355 But yet, my sister was Colette Three. 597 00:36:38,955 --> 00:36:42,488 My mother dressed her to a fault. 598 00:36:42,555 --> 00:36:45,288 She was the most picturesque thing 599 00:36:45,355 --> 00:36:47,588 you ever saw in your life. 600 00:36:50,988 --> 00:36:52,921 SMERLING: When did you meet Colette? 601 00:36:52,988 --> 00:36:55,155 Kindergarten. 602 00:36:55,221 --> 00:36:57,321 You know, you walk in the first day, 603 00:36:57,388 --> 00:37:00,321 and, you know, you look to find somebody. 604 00:37:02,655 --> 00:37:07,121 Right from the beginning, we were kind of buddies. 605 00:37:07,188 --> 00:37:10,121 She was funny, she was lighthearted. 606 00:37:10,188 --> 00:37:12,321 She was my best friend. 607 00:37:12,388 --> 00:37:17,188 But as close as I was to her... 608 00:37:18,355 --> 00:37:21,588 ...she camouflaged a lot of things. 609 00:37:24,755 --> 00:37:27,855 The only thing she shared is when her father died, 610 00:37:27,921 --> 00:37:31,088 how sad, how devastated she was. 611 00:37:36,855 --> 00:37:38,855 We were really much closer 612 00:37:38,921 --> 00:37:41,188 than most mothers and daughters, 613 00:37:41,255 --> 00:37:44,621 because as a little child, she lost her father, 614 00:37:44,688 --> 00:37:46,921 and I meant... 615 00:37:46,988 --> 00:37:49,521 more to her because of that. 616 00:37:49,588 --> 00:37:51,721 And then, when I married Freddy, 617 00:37:51,788 --> 00:37:55,255 she just loved him as a father. 618 00:37:55,321 --> 00:37:58,421 MAN: How old was Colette when you first met her? 619 00:37:58,488 --> 00:38:00,155 FREDDY: When I first met Colette, 620 00:38:00,221 --> 00:38:02,888 she was approximately 13 years of age. 621 00:38:02,955 --> 00:38:04,755 I was courting her mother. 622 00:38:04,821 --> 00:38:08,055 Um, it was quite a while back now. 623 00:38:08,121 --> 00:38:10,621 STEVENSON: Colette loved Freddy. 624 00:38:10,688 --> 00:38:13,955 She loved him very, very much. 625 00:38:15,288 --> 00:38:17,355 MAN: You have also 626 00:38:17,421 --> 00:38:20,021 known Jeff MacDonald for a long, long time. 627 00:38:20,088 --> 00:38:22,788 When did you first meet MacDonald? 628 00:38:22,855 --> 00:38:24,755 I first met MacDonald 629 00:38:24,821 --> 00:38:29,421 probably within a month or two after I met Colette. 630 00:38:29,488 --> 00:38:32,521 They were in junior high school together, 631 00:38:32,588 --> 00:38:34,988 and he would come over to the house. 632 00:38:36,988 --> 00:38:40,988 MILDRED: He and Colette dated through high school. 633 00:38:41,055 --> 00:38:44,421 We thought he was a... an especially nice boy. 634 00:38:44,488 --> 00:38:46,188 Very nice. 635 00:38:47,455 --> 00:38:49,855 REICH: Jeff was a football star. 636 00:38:49,921 --> 00:38:52,455 He had charisma. 637 00:38:52,521 --> 00:38:54,655 Everybody liked him. 638 00:38:54,721 --> 00:38:56,588 He was outgoing. 639 00:38:56,655 --> 00:38:58,455 Uh, he was friendly. 640 00:38:58,521 --> 00:39:01,321 He was just everything. 641 00:39:03,055 --> 00:39:06,688 SMERLING: How quickly did Jeffrey and Colette get married? 642 00:39:06,755 --> 00:39:08,855 REICH: She was 20. 643 00:39:08,921 --> 00:39:11,055 I came back from school, and 644 00:39:11,121 --> 00:39:13,321 she called to say she was getting married. 645 00:39:13,388 --> 00:39:16,255 And, you know, I was a little surprised, 646 00:39:16,321 --> 00:39:18,321 but then I realized she told me 647 00:39:18,388 --> 00:39:20,388 why they were getting married, so... 648 00:39:20,455 --> 00:39:21,855 SMERLING: And why was that? 649 00:39:21,921 --> 00:39:23,855 She was pregnant. 650 00:39:28,321 --> 00:39:30,221 MAN: I take it you and Mildred were pleased 651 00:39:30,288 --> 00:39:31,721 when they decided to get married? 652 00:39:31,788 --> 00:39:34,855 FREDDY: Oh, yes. 653 00:39:34,921 --> 00:39:37,021 He was a nice, presentable young man, 654 00:39:37,088 --> 00:39:39,388 good potential for the future, 655 00:39:39,455 --> 00:39:40,921 so therefore we saw nothing wrong 656 00:39:40,988 --> 00:39:42,588 with them getting married. 657 00:39:54,955 --> 00:39:56,721 FREDDY: May I add one thing? 658 00:39:56,788 --> 00:39:58,288 SEGAL: Yes, you may. 659 00:39:58,355 --> 00:40:00,421 FREDDY: If I had another daughter, 660 00:40:00,488 --> 00:40:03,921 I'd still want the same son‐in‐law. 661 00:40:11,888 --> 00:40:15,188 (crowd chatter) 662 00:40:16,921 --> 00:40:19,155 My daughter and two grandchildren... 663 00:40:19,221 --> 00:40:21,455 (clears throat) Excuse me. 664 00:40:21,521 --> 00:40:25,855 ...suffered in excess of 80 stab wounds. 665 00:40:25,921 --> 00:40:29,421 What they want the public to believe is 666 00:40:29,488 --> 00:40:31,321 that a sane man‐‐ 667 00:40:31,388 --> 00:40:33,855 and they charged premeditation, mind you‐‐ 668 00:40:33,921 --> 00:40:36,655 sat down and planned 669 00:40:36,721 --> 00:40:38,755 to perform such an act. 670 00:40:38,821 --> 00:40:41,321 I don't believe anybody in this country would believe that. 671 00:40:41,388 --> 00:40:43,921 That a sane man would do this. 672 00:40:54,155 --> 00:40:56,655 SOMERS: You can't explain this 673 00:40:56,721 --> 00:41:00,455 horrendous event logically, 674 00:41:00,521 --> 00:41:05,088 because if indeed MacDonald did it, 675 00:41:05,155 --> 00:41:08,755 he was in no frame of mind to be logical. 676 00:41:08,821 --> 00:41:10,955 I believe 677 00:41:11,021 --> 00:41:14,321 if the story fits the physical evidence, 678 00:41:14,388 --> 00:41:16,521 then you probably have a good story. 679 00:41:16,588 --> 00:41:18,888 If it doesn't fit the physical evidence, 680 00:41:18,955 --> 00:41:20,721 then it's a loser. 681 00:41:20,788 --> 00:41:23,388 Jeff's never fit that evidence. 682 00:41:23,455 --> 00:41:25,421 (doors open) 683 00:41:25,488 --> 00:41:27,421 ATTORNEY: The government calls 684 00:41:27,488 --> 00:41:29,755 Specialist Fourth Class Craig Chamberlain. 685 00:41:29,821 --> 00:41:31,621 SOMERS: There is only one story 686 00:41:31,688 --> 00:41:33,455 that fit that evidence. 687 00:41:34,755 --> 00:41:36,255 CHAMBERLAIN: I was called in 688 00:41:36,321 --> 00:41:38,088 to the head of the lab and said, 689 00:41:38,155 --> 00:41:39,555 "There's a murder case at Fort Bragg. 690 00:41:39,621 --> 00:41:42,855 We need you to go there as a member of a team." 691 00:41:46,488 --> 00:41:49,921 Probably the most important evidence was that 692 00:41:49,988 --> 00:41:51,955 each member of the group of four 693 00:41:52,021 --> 00:41:54,321 in that family had a different blood type. 694 00:41:55,821 --> 00:41:59,921 SOMERS: Jeff had B blood, 695 00:41:59,988 --> 00:42:02,788 Colette had A blood, 696 00:42:02,855 --> 00:42:05,988 Kimberley had AB blood, 697 00:42:06,055 --> 00:42:08,888 and Kristen had O blood. 698 00:42:08,955 --> 00:42:11,455 So you could trace 699 00:42:11,521 --> 00:42:15,021 where everybody's blood was in that unit. 700 00:42:16,888 --> 00:42:18,255 CHAMBERLAIN: MacDonald had said 701 00:42:18,321 --> 00:42:21,188 he was assaulted in the living room. 702 00:42:23,055 --> 00:42:25,488 SMERLING: Do you remember where blood was found in the living room? 703 00:42:25,555 --> 00:42:27,088 It just wasn't there. 704 00:42:27,155 --> 00:42:29,888 But there was a massive amount of blood 705 00:42:29,955 --> 00:42:34,155 in the master bedroom where Colette's body was found. 706 00:42:35,688 --> 00:42:39,055 SOMERS: Our theory was that an argument ensued 707 00:42:39,121 --> 00:42:41,821 in the master bedroom with Colette. 708 00:42:41,888 --> 00:42:45,655 That argument 709 00:42:45,721 --> 00:42:47,155 begins to escalate. 710 00:42:49,255 --> 00:42:52,621 At some point, MacDonald picks up this stick, 711 00:42:52,688 --> 00:42:54,588 and he starts beating her. 712 00:43:00,955 --> 00:43:02,255 KIMBERLY (echoing): Daddy! Daddy! 713 00:43:02,321 --> 00:43:04,588 We believe, while this is going on, 714 00:43:04,655 --> 00:43:08,921 Kimberley, his older daughter, gets out of bed. 715 00:43:08,988 --> 00:43:11,988 He has the stick in his hand. 716 00:43:12,055 --> 00:43:13,821 He swings it around, 717 00:43:13,888 --> 00:43:16,955 and it hits her... 718 00:43:17,021 --> 00:43:19,855 right across the side of the head, 719 00:43:19,921 --> 00:43:22,421 crushes her skull. 720 00:43:22,488 --> 00:43:25,421 I mean, knocked it in a couple of inches. 721 00:43:28,521 --> 00:43:32,455 At this point, he is a physician. 722 00:43:32,521 --> 00:43:36,321 He knows she is either going to die, 723 00:43:36,388 --> 00:43:39,421 or she is going to have serious, serious consequences 724 00:43:39,488 --> 00:43:41,055 of that wound. 725 00:43:46,755 --> 00:43:49,188 I believe he takes Kimberley 726 00:43:49,255 --> 00:43:51,455 back to her bedroom. 727 00:43:53,755 --> 00:43:55,288 ATTORNEY: Specialist Chamberlain, 728 00:43:55,355 --> 00:43:58,221 I see that you have drawn two oblongs on this picture, 729 00:43:58,288 --> 00:44:00,221 and they seem to be labeled "AB." 730 00:44:00,288 --> 00:44:03,188 Would you tell us what that means? 731 00:44:03,255 --> 00:44:05,021 CHAMBERLAIN: That means I determined 732 00:44:05,088 --> 00:44:07,988 there was AB blood within these areas. 733 00:44:08,055 --> 00:44:10,121 SOMERS: That's Kimberley's blood 734 00:44:10,188 --> 00:44:13,055 in the entrance to the master bedroom. 735 00:44:19,355 --> 00:44:21,021 SMERLING: Kristy's bed‐‐ 736 00:44:21,088 --> 00:44:22,888 do you remember how much blood was there? 737 00:44:22,955 --> 00:44:25,488 CHAMBERLAIN: There was a lot of blood on the bed clothing. 738 00:44:25,555 --> 00:44:29,655 The sheets that had Colette's type A blood indicated on it. 739 00:44:29,721 --> 00:44:35,188 It was like, "Why is Colette's blood in the kids' room?" 740 00:44:38,088 --> 00:44:40,021 SOMERS: At some point, 741 00:44:40,088 --> 00:44:42,888 Colette goes into Kristen's room 742 00:44:42,955 --> 00:44:45,221 as though she were attempting 743 00:44:45,288 --> 00:44:49,021 to protect her youngest child, 744 00:44:49,088 --> 00:44:53,555 and Jeff hits her in the head. 745 00:44:53,621 --> 00:44:56,355 She falls, and she bleeds 746 00:44:56,421 --> 00:44:59,921 all over the top part of the bed. 747 00:45:13,821 --> 00:45:18,021 Jeff's got to figure out, what does he do now? 748 00:45:22,721 --> 00:45:24,055 (camera shutter clicks) 749 00:45:24,121 --> 00:45:26,721 Under the table in the living room, 750 00:45:26,788 --> 00:45:29,421 an Esquire magazine was found. 751 00:45:32,121 --> 00:45:34,321 CHAMBERLAIN: There was type AB 752 00:45:34,388 --> 00:45:37,355 blood on the edge of the, uh, magazine. 753 00:45:37,421 --> 00:45:43,188 SOMERS: How did AB blood get into the magazine? 754 00:45:43,255 --> 00:45:46,455 It's Kimberley's blood. She sure didn't put it there. 755 00:45:48,388 --> 00:45:52,421 In that magazine was an article about the Manson killings, 756 00:45:52,488 --> 00:45:56,988 including the word "pig" written in blood. 757 00:45:57,055 --> 00:45:59,321 The theory was that 758 00:45:59,388 --> 00:46:03,588 Jeff consulted the Esquire magazine, 759 00:46:03,655 --> 00:46:06,721 and he says, "I got it. 760 00:46:06,788 --> 00:46:08,721 "A bunch of hippies came in. 761 00:46:08,788 --> 00:46:11,555 But wait a minute." 762 00:46:11,621 --> 00:46:13,321 He can't tell them 763 00:46:13,388 --> 00:46:16,455 that some hippies came in and just beat up two of them. 764 00:46:18,288 --> 00:46:21,155 He goes back into Kristen's room, 765 00:46:21,221 --> 00:46:24,055 and using a knife, 766 00:46:24,121 --> 00:46:26,888 he stabs her. 767 00:46:31,588 --> 00:46:32,555 (blood dripping) 768 00:46:32,621 --> 00:46:37,088 We know she was awake, because Kristen 769 00:46:37,155 --> 00:46:39,921 had wounds to her hands. 770 00:46:45,421 --> 00:46:49,455 Then he stabs his wife repeatedly with 771 00:46:49,521 --> 00:46:50,921 the ice pick. 772 00:46:53,221 --> 00:46:57,621 And then he staged "pig" on the headboard. 773 00:46:57,688 --> 00:47:00,655 CHAMBERLAIN: Written on, uh, the headboard 774 00:47:00,721 --> 00:47:03,288 was "P‐I‐G." 775 00:47:03,355 --> 00:47:05,155 No fingerprints involved in that. 776 00:47:05,221 --> 00:47:07,821 SOMERS: We found fragments 777 00:47:07,888 --> 00:47:10,421 of surgical gloves in the bedroom. 778 00:47:14,388 --> 00:47:16,255 No. 779 00:47:17,321 --> 00:47:19,421 We found B blood in the kitchen 780 00:47:19,488 --> 00:47:21,555 on the floor. 781 00:47:21,621 --> 00:47:24,588 We look in the cabinet under the kitchen sink. 782 00:47:26,488 --> 00:47:29,021 There was a whole package of surgical gloves. 783 00:47:31,288 --> 00:47:35,821 That has to be MacDonald. 784 00:47:35,888 --> 00:47:37,888 Unless there's somebody else in there bleeding, 785 00:47:37,955 --> 00:47:39,555 and his story doesn't have 786 00:47:39,621 --> 00:47:41,455 any of them bleeding. 787 00:47:42,555 --> 00:47:45,221 Captain MacDonald had a laceration 788 00:47:45,288 --> 00:47:48,721 between his ribs that resulted 789 00:47:48,788 --> 00:47:49,988 in a collapsed lung. 790 00:47:50,055 --> 00:47:52,021 CHAMBERLAIN: In the bathroom, 791 00:47:52,088 --> 00:47:55,021 there was blood drippings around the sink. 792 00:47:55,088 --> 00:47:57,255 It was type B blood, 793 00:47:57,321 --> 00:48:01,021 which was Jeffrey MacDonald's blood type. 794 00:48:01,088 --> 00:48:03,755 SOMERS: I think he inflicted that wound 795 00:48:03,821 --> 00:48:07,188 on himself very carefully. 796 00:48:09,321 --> 00:48:11,788 And that is essentially the way 797 00:48:11,855 --> 00:48:15,588 in which Jeffrey MacDonald became a murderer. 798 00:48:38,988 --> 00:48:41,188 ‐(siren wailing) ‐(indistinct radio chatter) 799 00:49:53,655 --> 00:49:55,355 When we first started getting interviewed 800 00:49:55,421 --> 00:49:58,688 before the Article 32, I bring the girl up, 801 00:49:58,755 --> 00:50:02,588 and they're like, "What girl?" I said, "The girl I saw." 802 00:50:10,621 --> 00:50:12,055 (laughs softly) 803 00:50:12,121 --> 00:50:16,188 I got to say, I thought... 804 00:50:19,088 --> 00:50:22,388 ...excuse my language‐‐ bullshit. 805 00:50:22,455 --> 00:50:24,388 Bullshit. 806 00:50:24,455 --> 00:50:27,055 Mica, at that point, 807 00:50:27,121 --> 00:50:30,855 sounded like he wanted to be an investigative hero. 808 00:50:34,988 --> 00:50:37,288 MICA: I knew what I saw. 809 00:50:37,355 --> 00:50:38,255 I figured, 810 00:50:38,321 --> 00:50:40,155 it's gonna come up sooner or later. 811 00:50:43,055 --> 00:50:46,488 So I went to the defense and I told 'em. 812 00:50:46,555 --> 00:50:51,521 Bernie Segal says, "I'm gonna put you back on the stand." 813 00:50:51,588 --> 00:50:53,321 SEGAL: Specialist Mica, 814 00:50:53,388 --> 00:50:56,055 you're the same witness who was previously called 815 00:50:56,121 --> 00:50:58,755 and testified in these proceedings? 816 00:50:58,821 --> 00:51:01,188 Yes, sir. 817 00:51:01,255 --> 00:51:04,455 SEGAL: Does that drawing resemble 818 00:51:04,521 --> 00:51:07,655 any person that you believe to have seen? 819 00:51:07,721 --> 00:51:10,088 MICA: It could, sir. 820 00:51:10,155 --> 00:51:12,955 SEGAL: Who do you believe it could represent? 821 00:51:14,988 --> 00:51:19,255 MICA: Possibly the girl I saw on the corner that night. 822 00:51:20,455 --> 00:51:22,155 (reporters clamoring) 823 00:51:22,221 --> 00:51:26,555 SEGAL: A woman who had been uncovered by myself was in fact a person 824 00:51:26,621 --> 00:51:28,521 whom the civilian authorities should investigate 825 00:51:28,588 --> 00:51:31,088 for complicity in the murders of Dr. MacDonald's family 826 00:51:31,155 --> 00:51:32,521 and assaulting him. 827 00:51:36,555 --> 00:51:38,488 DOUTHAT: It was on the headlines that day. 828 00:51:38,555 --> 00:51:41,221 And people were sending us letters 829 00:51:41,288 --> 00:51:42,888 and‐and calling us on the phone. 830 00:51:42,955 --> 00:51:45,521 And some of them were crazy and some of them were right 831 00:51:45,588 --> 00:51:48,155 on the money and‐and were trying to be as helpful as they could. 832 00:51:50,888 --> 00:51:54,488 And we came upon a guy named Posey. 833 00:51:54,555 --> 00:52:00,388 SEGAL: The defense calls William Edward Posey. 834 00:52:00,455 --> 00:52:02,655 DOUTHAT: He said that he had this neighbor 835 00:52:02,721 --> 00:52:05,188 that was strange, to say the least. 836 00:52:07,455 --> 00:52:10,655 And then, on the night that the murders took place, 837 00:52:10,721 --> 00:52:12,555 he saw her come in in the middle of the night 838 00:52:12,621 --> 00:52:14,621 in a Mustang car. 839 00:52:17,321 --> 00:52:19,755 He was getting out of the car and going to the house. 840 00:52:19,821 --> 00:52:21,988 SEGAL: Would you describe 841 00:52:22,055 --> 00:52:24,655 what her normal wearing apparel was? 842 00:52:24,721 --> 00:52:27,288 POSEY: Well, she had a big old white floppy hat 843 00:52:27,355 --> 00:52:28,755 that she wore. 844 00:52:28,821 --> 00:52:32,488 And she had a pair of white boots that she wore a lot. 845 00:52:34,688 --> 00:52:36,521 DOUTHAT: She fit the description of the person 846 00:52:36,588 --> 00:52:40,055 that Jeffrey MacDonald described and Mica described. 847 00:52:40,121 --> 00:52:42,855 Her name was Helena Stoeckley. 848 00:52:46,055 --> 00:52:49,188 All the stuff hanging out there about Stoeckley... 849 00:52:50,188 --> 00:52:53,121 ...everything pointed to her. 850 00:52:53,188 --> 00:52:56,455 What in the world would somebody be out there 851 00:52:56,521 --> 00:52:59,755 dressed just like the hippie that MacDonald described, 852 00:52:59,821 --> 00:53:01,321 that had just attacked him? 853 00:53:01,388 --> 00:53:06,288 That‐that really did raise some interesting questions. 854 00:54:09,288 --> 00:54:11,321 ♪♪ ♪♪ 855 00:54:23,755 --> 00:54:25,521 SMERLING: Now you're waiting for Colonel Rock 856 00:54:25,588 --> 00:54:27,021 ‐to make his decision. ‐DOUTHAT: Mm‐hmm. 857 00:54:27,088 --> 00:54:28,355 SMERLING: How long did that take? 858 00:54:28,421 --> 00:54:30,055 (exhales) 859 00:54:30,121 --> 00:54:34,021 A month, six weeks? Uh, it took a while. 860 00:54:34,088 --> 00:54:37,121 We kind of heard it was coming down, and every now and then, 861 00:54:37,188 --> 00:54:39,521 we'd get a whiff of what was gonna happen, 862 00:54:39,588 --> 00:54:41,255 but we didn't know. 863 00:54:44,255 --> 00:54:46,288 Colonel Rock had been given a job 864 00:54:46,355 --> 00:54:49,155 that was the headlines of every paper, 865 00:54:49,221 --> 00:54:51,088 and he was gonna get it right. 866 00:54:52,421 --> 00:54:54,355 SMERLING: Can you read it for me? 867 00:54:54,421 --> 00:54:56,921 Yeah. Yeah, well, sure, I can read it. 868 00:54:56,988 --> 00:54:59,021 Um... 869 00:54:59,088 --> 00:55:01,221 "High security report 870 00:55:01,288 --> 00:55:03,121 "on the meeting between Colonel Rock 871 00:55:03,188 --> 00:55:06,055 General Flanagan and Captain Beale." 872 00:55:16,921 --> 00:55:19,121 I remember Flanagan was 873 00:55:19,188 --> 00:55:21,988 the commanding general of Special Forces, 874 00:55:22,055 --> 00:55:25,488 and Colonel Rock, his job was to make a recommendation 875 00:55:25,555 --> 00:55:27,721 as to whether this case ought to go forward 876 00:55:27,788 --> 00:55:30,221 with an actual trial. 877 00:55:30,288 --> 00:55:32,888 Must have been an exchange between them. 878 00:55:32,955 --> 00:55:37,355 "Rock offered the statement that 'I searched high and low 879 00:55:37,421 --> 00:55:39,755 "'for points that show Jeff did it, 880 00:55:39,821 --> 00:55:43,955 but they ain't there.'" 881 00:55:44,921 --> 00:55:46,188 "Flanagan said, 882 00:55:46,255 --> 00:55:52,055 "'But what about the grass and mud?' 883 00:55:52,121 --> 00:55:58,121 Rock said, '14 MPs hadn't carried any in, either.'" 884 00:56:00,588 --> 00:56:05,555 "Flanagan said, 'But what about the coffee table?' 885 00:56:05,621 --> 00:56:09,188 Rock recounted the entire sequence of events." 886 00:56:12,355 --> 00:56:15,155 "Flanagan asked if there was any evidence for anyone else 887 00:56:15,221 --> 00:56:18,921 being in the house." 888 00:56:20,221 --> 00:56:24,921 "Rock covered all the points, and also Posey." 889 00:56:26,421 --> 00:56:29,755 "'Is there anything else the government can do now 890 00:56:29,821 --> 00:56:33,255 "to solidify the case?' 891 00:56:33,321 --> 00:56:35,755 Rock said, 'No, you shot your wad.'" 892 00:56:35,821 --> 00:56:37,021 (laughs softly) 893 00:56:37,088 --> 00:56:39,088 "Rock then said, 894 00:56:39,155 --> 00:56:43,188 "'The Army had already spent large sums, 895 00:56:43,255 --> 00:56:44,555 "'and to spend any more money 896 00:56:44,621 --> 00:56:48,621 would make the Army look like fools.'" 897 00:56:53,555 --> 00:56:54,921 Yeah. 898 00:56:55,755 --> 00:56:57,321 Yeah. 899 00:56:57,388 --> 00:57:01,455 No, I don't. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. 900 00:57:06,321 --> 00:57:09,821 MALLEY: This case was a big deal. 901 00:57:09,888 --> 00:57:11,855 And I think the Army thought, 902 00:57:11,921 --> 00:57:13,855 "We got to wrap this up quickly. 903 00:57:13,921 --> 00:57:15,188 "Um, it's‐‐ it‐‐ You know, 904 00:57:15,255 --> 00:57:17,755 "CBS Evening News knows about it, 905 00:57:17,821 --> 00:57:19,888 and that's not what we want." 906 00:57:19,955 --> 00:57:21,455 CRONKITE: The Army today 907 00:57:21,521 --> 00:57:23,321 cleared Captain Jeffrey MacDonald, 908 00:57:23,388 --> 00:57:25,788 a Green Beret physician, of charges that he murdered 909 00:57:25,855 --> 00:57:28,588 his wife and two young daughters nine months ago 910 00:57:28,655 --> 00:57:30,888 in their Fort Bragg, North Carolina apartment. 911 00:57:30,955 --> 00:57:34,588 The Army said that five weeks of closed‐door hearings had not 912 00:57:34,655 --> 00:57:37,321 produced sufficient evidence to support the charges. 913 00:57:37,388 --> 00:57:42,421 We have all of these myths about our system. 914 00:57:42,488 --> 00:57:45,121 How it works, 915 00:57:45,188 --> 00:57:48,455 the importance of a level playing field. 916 00:57:49,821 --> 00:57:54,188 Fairness, equality before the law. 917 00:57:55,988 --> 00:57:57,421 Here you have a tangled mess 918 00:57:57,488 --> 00:58:02,655 of people all trying to figure out 919 00:58:02,721 --> 00:58:05,121 what's real 920 00:58:05,188 --> 00:58:08,955 and what's make believe. 921 00:58:09,021 --> 00:58:15,088 What really happened versus what we think really happened. 922 00:58:18,488 --> 00:58:21,121 Why the fascination with criminal trials? 923 00:58:21,188 --> 00:58:24,555 Because it's an attempt to grab ahold of the world, 924 00:58:24,621 --> 00:58:29,221 to figure out what's really out there, to find truth, 925 00:58:29,288 --> 00:58:33,621 to find something that you can grab ahold of and shake. 926 00:58:33,688 --> 00:58:35,688 After hearing the decision, Captain MacDonald said 927 00:58:35,755 --> 00:58:38,121 he wanted to get out of the Army, start a new life. 928 00:58:38,188 --> 00:58:41,221 MacDONALD (over TV): I have said, in the future, that more investigation 929 00:58:41,288 --> 00:58:43,688 will be done into certain suspects 930 00:58:43,755 --> 00:58:46,888 that were brought out by us in the hearing. 931 00:58:46,955 --> 00:58:49,521 REPORTER: Do you plan to do any investigating of your own? 932 00:58:49,588 --> 00:58:51,821 Uh, no comment. 933 00:58:51,888 --> 00:58:53,788 HELENA: Dear Kathy, 934 00:58:53,855 --> 00:58:57,021 today on the news, I heard that they had definitely dropped 935 00:58:57,088 --> 00:58:59,388 the charges against MacDonald. 936 00:58:59,455 --> 00:59:01,188 Remember how I didn't have an alibi 937 00:59:01,255 --> 00:59:03,321 for the night of the murder? 938 00:59:04,955 --> 00:59:07,055 Believe me, 939 00:59:07,121 --> 00:59:10,455 I am in deep, deep trouble. 940 00:59:11,655 --> 00:59:15,355 Love and peace. Helena. 941 00:59:19,821 --> 00:59:24,121 Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org 75653

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