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- Excuse me, who's sitting here?
- The Sicilians.
2
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The chairman of the Biennale
is sitting on the right.
3
00:00:15,122 --> 00:00:18,646
The mayor is behind
the chairman of the Biennale.
4
00:00:19,253 --> 00:00:22,323
Then comes the chairman of the province.
5
00:00:23,476 --> 00:00:27,989
The 33rd International Art Biennale
of Venice was opened on 18 June.
6
00:00:28,334 --> 00:00:30,334
It was excellent again.
7
00:00:30,694 --> 00:00:34,724
Good morning. You look so lovely.
I saw you from over there.
8
00:00:40,908 --> 00:00:45,713
On 17 June the result was already known
and the papers coult print the winners.
9
00:00:46,026 --> 00:00:48,026
That was normal for Venice.
10
00:00:51,172 --> 00:00:54,890
A tie between the sculptors
Etienne Martin, France...
11
00:01:14,603 --> 00:01:18,606
The prize of 2,000,000 lire,
offered by the city of Venice
12
00:01:18,817 --> 00:01:22,816
to an italian artist,
goes to Lucio Fontana.
13
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The prize of 2,000,000 lire,
offered by the city of Venice
14
00:01:39,352 --> 00:01:41,159
and the province of Venice
15
00:01:41,259 --> 00:01:44,479
to an italian artist,
goes to Alberto Viani.
16
00:01:55,408 --> 00:01:57,408
Een programma van
17
00:02:01,145 --> 00:02:03,892
Le arti. A special edition.
18
00:02:06,454 --> 00:02:09,472
Il Gazzettino. Il Gazzettino.
19
00:02:11,587 --> 00:02:13,413
Il Gazzettino. Read all the news.
20
00:02:13,513 --> 00:02:17,372
Four days before the official opening
of the Biennale you can,
21
00:02:17,490 --> 00:02:21,975
if you're from the press or pay a large
amount, visit the national pavilions
22
00:02:22,237 --> 00:02:25,245
Malicious gossip has it
that everything is decided then,
23
00:02:25,345 --> 00:02:28,313
the prizes, etc.
But that's just malicious gossip...
24
00:02:28,591 --> 00:02:31,223
But the circus carries on.
The sho must go on.
25
00:02:31,386 --> 00:02:33,743
This gentleman is first,
and the next...
26
00:02:33,783 --> 00:02:36,280
You shouldn't talk to Gian Ferrari
27
00:02:36,437 --> 00:02:38,779
but to the head of the press office.
28
00:02:38,901 --> 00:02:40,901
No, I had to come here.
29
00:02:42,982 --> 00:02:47,506
We've already done another one.
30
00:02:47,617 --> 00:02:53,298
It's still in my office.
Or... you have to have another one.
31
00:02:53,517 --> 00:02:56,025
- Why?
- For madam.
32
00:03:00,749 --> 00:03:03,031
OK, OK, OK.
33
00:03:24,633 --> 00:03:28,468
I think Fontana definitely
deserves the prize.
34
00:03:28,594 --> 00:03:31,588
But I thnk that,
because he deserves it,
35
00:03:31,874 --> 00:03:35,178
he won't get it. At the Biennale
you know as well as I do,
36
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,900
unfortunately, it's...
37
00:03:38,707 --> 00:03:41,611
compromise, political and otherwise,
38
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,460
that determines who is awarded a prize.
39
00:03:45,545 --> 00:03:47,812
I regret to say that the Biennale,
40
00:03:48,191 --> 00:03:51,028
with its current structure, cannot...
41
00:03:53,945 --> 00:03:57,081
play a very effective role.
And I'll tell you why.
42
00:03:57,416 --> 00:03:59,339
The Biennale is always late.
43
00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:03,220
It never shows works
that are really avant-garde.
44
00:04:03,466 --> 00:04:04,773
when they actually are.
45
00:04:04,873 --> 00:04:07,641
All the bodies
in charge of the Biennale
46
00:04:07,665 --> 00:04:09,609
are bureaucratic bodies.
47
00:04:09,709 --> 00:04:12,677
But I think the Biennale is
too enjoyable a festival
48
00:04:12,830 --> 00:04:16,501
when it comes to, like I said,
meeting fashionable society, etc.,
49
00:04:16,556 --> 00:04:18,766
for it to die.
50
00:04:18,873 --> 00:04:21,785
Everyone is aware of the situation
but plays along.
51
00:04:42,692 --> 00:04:46,666
There is something else here today
that I thnk is quite important.
52
00:04:46,908 --> 00:04:51,048
Some painters are taking part
with, let's say, manifestos.
53
00:04:51,185 --> 00:04:53,161
Like Lucio Fontana.
54
00:04:53,261 --> 00:04:57,960
Art isn't something
functional, physical.
55
00:04:58,170 --> 00:05:01,704
Like love, sleeping, eating.
It's a creation by man.
56
00:05:01,804 --> 00:05:06,158
- When is the White Manifesto from?
- The White Manifesto is from 1946.
57
00:05:06,622 --> 00:05:09,578
- Where was it created?
- In Buenos Aires.
58
00:05:09,750 --> 00:05:12,391
What was the concept of the...?
59
00:05:12,647 --> 00:05:18,481
Simply... we call them
the waves of chance,
60
00:05:18,969 --> 00:05:24,476
we say that art's former
social function has come to an end.
61
00:05:24,863 --> 00:05:29,345
So we are searching for
other forms of art.
62
00:05:29,806 --> 00:05:32,913
Maybe art will be finished.
63
00:05:33,030 --> 00:05:36,226
And it will have to be done in space
with new machines.
64
00:05:36,598 --> 00:05:38,109
I think all that is great.
65
00:05:38,209 --> 00:05:43,426
I think that,
and I can't predicte the future,
66
00:05:43,465 --> 00:05:47,938
but I think that art is finished. It's
going to change into something else.
67
00:05:47,992 --> 00:05:50,825
The first is a white canvas with holes.
68
00:05:51,067 --> 00:05:54,568
It's the dimension
beyond the painting, ideally.
69
00:05:55,260 --> 00:05:58,477
These holes aren't made
with brushes and colours,
70
00:05:58,528 --> 00:06:02,280
but are cut.
It's the liberation of a dimension.
71
00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:04,639
Like the Swede Fallstr�m.
72
00:06:26,289 --> 00:06:28,330
Like the Argentinian Le Parc, eh?
73
00:06:28,496 --> 00:06:32,012
It's not so much in order to
show what they have done
74
00:06:32,336 --> 00:06:34,695
but to establish a position today.
75
00:06:37,114 --> 00:06:39,114
It's funny.
76
00:06:39,853 --> 00:06:41,872
- Have you seen this?
- Look.
77
00:06:45,101 --> 00:06:49,111
Fantastic, isnt'it?
What a face, fantastic!
78
00:07:00,883 --> 00:07:06,268
After the very geometric and
pure period that you went through,
79
00:07:06,629 --> 00:07:10,101
I notice that your latest works are
a bit more baroque again.
80
00:07:10,456 --> 00:07:13,903
You could almost say
there are two sides to my character.
81
00:07:13,973 --> 00:07:18,321
One that is quite... that can't...
82
00:07:18,610 --> 00:07:21,793
control its imagination,
that is quite constructive,
83
00:07:22,047 --> 00:07:26,106
but that has to develop,
that's the adventuter in me.
84
00:07:26,254 --> 00:07:30,419
This tension is necessary,
because I can't adopt a method.
85
00:07:30,490 --> 00:07:32,790
Art isn't a method,
life isn't a method.
86
00:07:32,890 --> 00:07:35,290
You have to do what you want to do.
87
00:07:35,461 --> 00:07:38,841
Or you don't become a happy man,
you become a complex man.
88
00:07:39,389 --> 00:07:42,637
What does an American in Paris
think about this Biennale?
89
00:07:43,031 --> 00:07:47,344
Well, I think this Biennale
is quite a clean Biennale,
90
00:07:47,671 --> 00:07:51,951
in the sense that
it seems more structural,
91
00:07:52,646 --> 00:07:55,646
more dynamic
in an architectonic sense,
92
00:07:56,026 --> 00:08:00,517
rather than in a romantic
and anguished sense.
93
00:08:00,986 --> 00:08:02,986
I have a feeling that...
94
00:08:03,031 --> 00:08:05,951
the... for instance, the Italians,
95
00:08:06,285 --> 00:08:10,019
who are a pretty god indication,
since you have so many of them,
96
00:08:10,231 --> 00:08:14,821
that they are more...
now given towards...
97
00:08:15,402 --> 00:08:18,567
structure,
or structuralism, if you like,
98
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,475
in the old sense of a tradition.
99
00:08:23,035 --> 00:08:28,547
It's like a sculputure
from Ancient Greece.
100
00:08:28,752 --> 00:08:31,673
It's not a Renaissance sculpture.
101
00:08:34,793 --> 00:08:36,793
The Italian Renaissance
102
00:08:37,974 --> 00:08:43,826
isn't part of my vision of sculpture.
103
00:08:43,966 --> 00:08:47,757
It' a very modern world.
104
00:08:48,119 --> 00:08:54,575
The myths, the poetic shapes
of ancient sculpture
105
00:08:54,761 --> 00:08:58,655
are behind the thinking.
106
00:09:19,301 --> 00:09:24,651
I noticed also that there are
more structures of totality,
107
00:09:24,698 --> 00:09:29,032
like in the Japanese,
that people work on a whole room.
108
00:09:29,107 --> 00:09:32,381
- Put your hand in.
- I'm not going to. What happens?
109
00:09:32,451 --> 00:09:34,451
I'm afraid to.
110
00:09:36,128 --> 00:09:38,128
What's this?
111
00:09:38,824 --> 00:09:40,481
- All the way down.
- Oh, I can't.
112
00:09:40,581 --> 00:09:42,418
Yes, you can.
113
00:09:42,518 --> 00:09:46,650
Oh, darling, how strange!
It's absolutely...
114
00:09:47,141 --> 00:09:49,141
Try this one here.
115
00:10:03,336 --> 00:10:05,336
That's a good one.
116
00:10:06,238 --> 00:10:08,238
This one is... strange.
117
00:10:38,025 --> 00:10:43,531
I would say that all of them have that
sense of total structure of the world.
118
00:10:43,884 --> 00:10:47,068
And the structuralism is,
that I was thinking of,
119
00:10:47,185 --> 00:10:51,603
from a more industrial dynamic rhythm,
120
00:10:51,942 --> 00:10:55,253
I would say is in
pop art of Lichtenstein.
121
00:10:57,448 --> 00:11:02,292
You could say that
in my work as a painter, comic strips
122
00:11:02,756 --> 00:11:07,414
are the equivalent of
what models used to be.
123
00:11:08,110 --> 00:11:13,506
The difference is that in my case
the model is only two-dimensional.
124
00:11:13,721 --> 00:11:18,524
This stips... What's the meaning,
exactly the meaning of it?
125
00:11:18,823 --> 00:11:22,488
You take one of a strip...
one element of a strip,
126
00:11:22,787 --> 00:11:26,080
and you reproduce it
much bigger than it is in reality.
127
00:11:26,180 --> 00:11:28,180
What's the meaning exactly?
128
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,532
I think it's always difficult to say
what the meaning really is,
129
00:11:31,611 --> 00:11:36,155
because they can be looked at from
so many points of view, but let me...
130
00:11:37,392 --> 00:11:39,515
One meaning, of course, is...
131
00:11:40,236 --> 00:11:44,656
to organise something and...
132
00:11:44,962 --> 00:11:48,428
First of all, the selection
of it is done... because of the...
133
00:11:48,528 --> 00:11:51,869
certain power both of the situation
134
00:11:51,953 --> 00:11:54,919
and the actual design
of the original thing that's taken.
135
00:11:55,012 --> 00:11:58,123
Of course it's taken out of context,
they're really done in a series.
136
00:11:58,223 --> 00:12:01,471
And in a sense, they're closer
to movies, in a funny way.
137
00:12:02,007 --> 00:12:04,096
But I pick a particular instance
138
00:12:04,164 --> 00:12:07,181
which just seems to be powerful
to me somehow,
139
00:12:07,283 --> 00:12:10,811
or at least have the possibility
of being made into something.
140
00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:14,591
Also the fact that it has
a kind of simile...
141
00:12:14,673 --> 00:12:18,244
It's similar in a way to classicism,
it isn't classical, of course,
142
00:12:18,344 --> 00:12:21,244
but it's what is modern day classical.
143
00:12:21,375 --> 00:12:24,690
It's a deform developed
by a series of commercial artists,
144
00:12:24,785 --> 00:12:28,366
generation after generation. Each one
adds something to this cofiguration
145
00:12:28,416 --> 00:12:30,416
until you get the ideal girl's face,
146
00:12:30,479 --> 00:12:33,279
which is taken for reality
on one hand,
147
00:12:33,464 --> 00:12:37,340
and yet, if you look at it closely,
it's really a very abstract thing.
148
00:13:35,009 --> 00:13:39,836
The first impression is that
it's not a Biennale that shocks.
149
00:13:41,103 --> 00:13:43,703
It'a Biennale that exalts.
150
00:13:44,111 --> 00:13:47,309
A very moderate, pleasant Biennale,
in good taste,
151
00:13:48,004 --> 00:13:55,104
where the people that shocks are exalted
much, much too late, unfortunately.
152
00:14:08,499 --> 00:14:10,524
Cocooned in his tiny spacecraft,
153
00:14:10,678 --> 00:14:13,303
John Glenn belongs now
to another world.
154
00:14:13,651 --> 00:14:17,720
Below him, another world slides
unchangingly in its cycle.
155
00:15:00,655 --> 00:15:04,204
To me, the Biennale is always
a great deal of fun,
156
00:15:04,407 --> 00:15:07,830
some good pictures,
a lot of intrigue and lovely Venice.
157
00:15:07,913 --> 00:15:10,337
But I think the British pavilion
is terrific this year.
158
00:15:10,437 --> 00:15:12,833
I speak from such
a prejudiced point of view.
159
00:15:12,933 --> 00:15:16,293
I have most of the pavilion
and half the American pavilion.
160
00:15:17,007 --> 00:15:19,007
I don't see...
161
00:15:19,311 --> 00:15:23,190
I'm not really tempted to wish I had
somebody that I don't have already.
162
00:15:23,290 --> 00:15:25,606
Sounds arrogant,
but I really think I represent
163
00:15:25,661 --> 00:15:29,548
some of the best people in the show.
Caro as a sculptor.
164
00:16:07,190 --> 00:16:09,892
- Gabrielli.
- Right, I will remember.
165
00:16:10,216 --> 00:16:12,799
I can phone around
9 in the morning. Ok?
166
00:16:12,992 --> 00:16:14,992
Alright.
167
00:16:17,419 --> 00:16:24,007
No, no. I'm having... Excuse me. Sorry.
I'm having this sculpture.
168
00:16:24,631 --> 00:16:27,431
But the fact that
you can enter your dwellings...
169
00:16:27,716 --> 00:16:29,301
- And...
- It's important.
170
00:16:29,401 --> 00:16:31,535
That's a very important point.
171
00:16:31,847 --> 00:16:36,310
You couldn't go into the others but...
172
00:16:38,770 --> 00:16:41,221
You couldn't go in easily.
173
00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:44,747
You could enter in thought, maybe.
174
00:16:45,013 --> 00:16:47,901
Now you can enter physically.
175
00:16:52,024 --> 00:16:54,862
Our life is always made up of
fragmentary ideas.
176
00:16:55,024 --> 00:16:58,373
You have a memory of someone,
you remember a mouth, a face,
177
00:16:58,473 --> 00:17:01,293
or a moment in your life,
and I've tried to convey that.
178
00:17:01,382 --> 00:17:04,607
I've always tried to convey
an idea of space in my paintings,
179
00:17:04,707 --> 00:17:06,843
beyond the context I've expressed.
180
00:17:07,205 --> 00:17:10,018
Finding a new definition of space
is interesting.
181
00:17:10,114 --> 00:17:13,152
My paintings try to almost
take over the wall,
182
00:17:13,251 --> 00:17:15,743
depicting life in a way that
it unfolds around us.
183
00:17:15,843 --> 00:17:21,105
Our life is typified by the phenomenon
of ready-made, interchangeable products.
184
00:17:21,348 --> 00:17:23,347
A painting shouldn't be limited
185
00:17:23,447 --> 00:17:25,637
to a strict organisation of the surface.
186
00:17:25,737 --> 00:17:27,737
It should include developments,
187
00:17:27,757 --> 00:17:30,057
like an airplane with variable geometry.
188
00:17:30,112 --> 00:17:32,492
So I've done a new series of paintings,
189
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:34,747
of sculptures
with variable geometry.
190
00:17:34,847 --> 00:17:37,815
Interchangeable elements,
but with a fixed structure
191
00:17:37,932 --> 00:17:40,717
that any sensitive individual will find.
192
00:17:40,819 --> 00:17:43,435
I'm from a generation
that lived through the war.
193
00:17:43,498 --> 00:17:47,159
I saw its horrors and think
it's too easy to express human misery.
194
00:17:47,253 --> 00:17:51,296
In this Biennale there are
a number of painters or sculptors
195
00:17:51,749 --> 00:17:56,805
with projects that go beyond
painting and sculpture, as it were.
196
00:17:57,984 --> 00:18:00,182
That's proved not only by the fact
197
00:18:00,297 --> 00:18:02,865
that separate spaces
are sometimes built
198
00:18:03,053 --> 00:18:05,053
but also in the way things are made.
199
00:18:05,153 --> 00:18:07,617
For example, when I look at
Soto's space...
200
00:18:08,670 --> 00:18:11,628
the wall that Soto made,
201
00:18:11,931 --> 00:18:13,938
which I really like,
202
00:18:14,140 --> 00:18:17,082
when you look to see how he made it,
203
00:18:17,264 --> 00:18:19,849
it turns out that
it is a very simple process.
204
00:18:19,949 --> 00:18:23,789
It's also painted quite simply.
205
00:18:24,125 --> 00:18:26,133
It is, as it were, more the idea
206
00:18:26,213 --> 00:18:31,074
that is behind a particular
visual effect that counts
207
00:18:31,792 --> 00:18:35,120
rather than the material itself
that it is made from.
208
00:18:35,234 --> 00:18:38,874
You can also see that to a certain
extent in the Dutch pavilion,
209
00:18:38,993 --> 00:18:42,297
where there is an excellent
exhibition of Constant's work.
210
00:18:42,459 --> 00:18:45,616
But there it is more
the idea that counts,
211
00:18:45,767 --> 00:18:48,511
in my opinion,
rather than each individual work.
212
00:18:49,034 --> 00:18:53,069
So it is more the total impression
of the space that it is important
213
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,976
rather than the choice of works.
214
00:19:40,557 --> 00:19:43,193
It's the commedia dell'arte.
It's true.
215
00:19:44,477 --> 00:19:48,845
It's the opera. The chair.
Damn. We only had one.
216
00:19:50,035 --> 00:19:53,780
That's it. Thieves.
217
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:55,895
It'd be better to go on holyday.
218
00:19:55,995 --> 00:19:58,627
Jet planes are more interesting
than painting.
219
00:19:58,908 --> 00:20:01,212
Much more interesting than painting.
220
00:20:05,319 --> 00:20:08,915
Move a bit more... One step to the left.
There. Yes, like that.
221
00:20:09,035 --> 00:20:11,590
- If I move...
- No, stay where you are.
222
00:20:11,692 --> 00:20:13,692
Another step.
223
00:20:17,044 --> 00:20:19,044
Turn in this direction.
224
00:20:19,863 --> 00:20:21,863
No, the other way.
225
00:20:28,587 --> 00:20:30,587
One second.
226
00:20:32,262 --> 00:20:34,316
But the Biennale is more than that.
227
00:20:34,990 --> 00:20:37,176
There are two important retrospectives
228
00:20:37,451 --> 00:20:41,767
about two important artists from
the first half of this century,
229
00:20:41,947 --> 00:20:43,747
Boccioni and Morandi.
230
00:20:43,847 --> 00:20:46,155
Another important retrospective
231
00:20:47,324 --> 00:20:52,259
is about the rediscovery of
the avant-garde movement,
232
00:20:52,447 --> 00:20:54,357
that was neglected or
unknown up till now,
233
00:20:54,457 --> 00:20:58,342
that of the artists from Lombardy
from the thirties.
234
00:20:58,941 --> 00:21:00,941
It's the triumph of youth.
235
00:21:01,393 --> 00:21:03,859
We wanted youth to be Martial Raysse.
236
00:21:04,387 --> 00:21:06,387
Or perhaps Lichtenstein.
237
00:21:06,770 --> 00:21:09,849
Us Europeans were against Lichtenstein.
238
00:21:10,471 --> 00:21:12,208
That was also youth.
239
00:21:12,308 --> 00:21:16,724
And finally, youth was Julio Le Parc,
the Argentinian.
240
00:21:18,905 --> 00:21:24,905
It's a... How do I put it?
It's more than a prize.
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It's also more than an exhibition.
It's somethng else.
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00:21:29,289 --> 00:21:32,289
It's truly youth in art,
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that is now accepted, gets itself
accepted and gets itself understood.
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What do you think are the qualities the
jury wanted to honour by choosing you?
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I don't know but I hope it is the aim
of getting people to participate,
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make a more direct contribution.
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00:21:48,141 --> 00:21:51,329
Le Parc? I thought it was fantastic.
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- Absolutely exciting.
- Why?
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Well, because I put on the glasses and
I saw worlds that I'd never seen before.
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00:22:00,398 --> 00:22:04,716
As far as I'm concerned,
it's a series of proposals.
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00:22:05,265 --> 00:22:08,148
To those who are seeking
simpler participation,
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00:22:08,256 --> 00:22:11,186
seeking more active,
direct participation.
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00:22:11,508 --> 00:22:14,863
The prize awarded to Le Parc
is obviously disputed.
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00:22:15,363 --> 00:22:17,963
It's very complicated
because up till now
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00:22:18,063 --> 00:22:20,863
Le Parc's oeuvre was also
the oeuvre of a group.
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00:22:20,974 --> 00:22:24,222
And now a collective oeuvre
becomes an individual oeuvre.
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00:22:25,540 --> 00:22:28,425
I don't know if it will
affect Le Parc himself.
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00:22:28,517 --> 00:22:31,040
Is your participation in
the Venice Biennale
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00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:35,629
an individual participation or is it
the result of a collective search?
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00:22:35,995 --> 00:22:37,571
I think in all searches
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there is collective participation
and individual participation.
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00:22:41,566 --> 00:22:45,281
The award is an award for the whole
group, if I understand correctly?
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00:22:45,381 --> 00:22:47,009
I hope so. Not only a group
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00:22:47,109 --> 00:22:52,832
but a series of people, a generation
seeking an opening one way or another.
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00:22:53,169 --> 00:22:54,798
I think what he did
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is a creation full of atmosphere
and originality.
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00:22:59,626 --> 00:23:04,558
You don't think that Soto, who did
it before him, deserves the prize?
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00:23:04,636 --> 00:23:07,215
Of course. But it seems
he couldn't have the prize
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00:23:07,291 --> 00:23:11,069
cos he had another prize. I don't
know when, I think someone told me.
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00:23:11,158 --> 00:23:13,235
Because Soto is still...
it's art.
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00:23:26,827 --> 00:23:30,596
Here is Le Parc's funfair,
Venice Biennale's Painting Prize.
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00:23:34,953 --> 00:23:36,953
Advies
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00:23:38,699 --> 00:23:40,699
All open until October.
274
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,280
Camera
275
00:23:55,522 --> 00:23:57,522
Klankopname
Montage
276
00:24:01,807 --> 00:24:03,807
Productie
Dries
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00:24:10,067 --> 00:24:12,067
Realisatie
23178
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