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1
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- Charismatic.
- Opinionated.
2
00:00:38,371 --> 00:00:39,395
I'd have to point out he was short.
3
00:00:39,506 --> 00:00:40,700
But he was a giant of a man.
4
00:00:40,807 --> 00:00:42,007
Really a good storyteller.
5
00:00:42,208 --> 00:00:43,732
He was completely selfless.
6
00:00:43,843 --> 00:00:44,643
- Animated.
- Kind.
7
00:00:44,744 --> 00:00:45,904
- Jubilant.
- Caring.
8
00:00:46,012 --> 00:00:48,105
- Devilish.
- Laid-back, very approachable.
9
00:00:48,214 --> 00:00:49,112
Can I say things
10
00:00:49,215 --> 00:00:51,046
that are not completely
flattering and wonderful?
11
00:00:51,151 --> 00:00:54,552
He had the capacity
to have the worst possible gas.
12
00:00:54,654 --> 00:00:56,178
And he'd be proud of that.
"Yep!"
13
00:00:56,289 --> 00:00:57,586
He wasn't a saint.
He was a hell of guy.
14
00:00:57,690 --> 00:00:59,590
He was just so intelligent,
15
00:00:59,692 --> 00:01:02,923
and, um, I'm gonna cry.
16
00:01:05,465 --> 00:01:08,127
I'm sorry.
17
00:01:21,014 --> 00:01:24,177
Why are you sad?
Why?
18
00:01:24,284 --> 00:01:26,047
Oh, I'll tell you about it someday.
19
00:01:27,687 --> 00:01:28,813
Do you know who that is?
20
00:01:28,922 --> 00:01:30,321
Andrew.
21
00:01:30,423 --> 00:01:32,050
Do you know who Andrew is?
22
00:01:32,158 --> 00:01:34,854
I don't know.
23
00:01:36,362 --> 00:01:39,889
Why did Andrew get killed?
24
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,865
Because somebody hurt him, buddy.
25
00:01:42,969 --> 00:01:44,664
I'm an only child,
and I'll get around to why this
26
00:01:44,771 --> 00:01:46,033
is of any importance whatsoever,
27
00:01:46,139 --> 00:01:50,132
but, trust me, there's a theme.
28
00:01:50,243 --> 00:01:52,370
Where were you when you found out?
29
00:01:52,479 --> 00:01:54,947
Melanie, who's on the front desk,
30
00:01:55,048 --> 00:01:56,072
calls back and says,
31
00:01:56,182 --> 00:01:58,616
"Kate, there's a policeman from
Sunnyvale on the line for you.
32
00:01:58,718 --> 00:01:59,707
Do you want to talk to him?"
33
00:01:59,819 --> 00:02:01,514
And I said, "Oh, yes,
put it through to the office."
34
00:02:01,621 --> 00:02:03,589
"Are you Kathleen Bagby?" I said yes.
35
00:02:03,690 --> 00:02:05,590
"I've got a message
here from Pennsylvania.
36
00:02:05,692 --> 00:02:07,216
You're to call this number.
37
00:02:07,327 --> 00:02:10,262
It's the coroner's office.
You've got bad news."
38
00:02:10,363 --> 00:02:13,389
I said, "Is my son dead?"
39
00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:15,661
And he said,
"I can't tell you that, madam,
40
00:02:15,768 --> 00:02:17,065
but you've got terrible news."
41
00:02:17,170 --> 00:02:19,195
I dialed this number
that he'd given me.
42
00:02:19,305 --> 00:02:20,829
And it was a man, an irate man.
43
00:02:20,940 --> 00:02:22,771
The coroner's office was closed down.
44
00:02:22,876 --> 00:02:24,207
There was nothing he could do about it.
45
00:02:24,310 --> 00:02:25,436
"You have to call back
tomorrow morning."
46
00:02:25,545 --> 00:02:27,274
I called back
to the Sunnyvale Police Station,
47
00:02:27,380 --> 00:02:28,312
so he gave me another number,
48
00:02:28,414 --> 00:02:30,974
and then I got through
to Sgt. Krulac, and he said,
49
00:02:31,084 --> 00:02:33,484
"Your son is dead
under suspicious circumstances.
50
00:02:33,586 --> 00:02:37,078
Have you got any idea
why he was in the park?"
51
00:02:37,190 --> 00:02:41,627
I said, "My son is dead?
Murdered?"
52
00:02:41,728 --> 00:02:43,593
He said yes.
53
00:02:43,696 --> 00:02:46,597
And then I called David.
54
00:02:46,699 --> 00:02:51,329
And I said to him,
"Andrew's dead."
55
00:02:51,437 --> 00:02:53,905
And he said, "No!"
56
00:02:54,007 --> 00:02:56,840
And I heard him throw the phone.
57
00:02:56,943 --> 00:02:59,878
I called Sgt. Krulac back,
and I said, "We're coming,"
58
00:02:59,979 --> 00:03:01,207
and he said,
"Well, that's good."
59
00:03:01,314 --> 00:03:02,474
Through that flight,
60
00:03:02,582 --> 00:03:05,016
we thought we'd go get Andrew,
61
00:03:05,118 --> 00:03:07,177
bring him back to California,
62
00:03:07,287 --> 00:03:08,618
get everything organized, whatever,
63
00:03:08,721 --> 00:03:11,212
and then kill ourselves,
'cause no point in going on.
64
00:03:12,358 --> 00:03:15,350
That was the first plan.
65
00:03:15,461 --> 00:03:17,361
Obviously, we didn't do that.
66
00:03:17,463 --> 00:03:18,657
And then she gave me the list to call,
67
00:03:18,765 --> 00:03:19,732
and we started calling.
68
00:03:19,832 --> 00:03:21,595
I came home, and there was
a message from Barbara.
69
00:03:21,701 --> 00:03:23,032
- Kate called me.
- It was Tuesday morning.
70
00:03:23,136 --> 00:03:24,034
I was just coming out of surgery.
71
00:03:24,137 --> 00:03:26,367
- I was doing something...
- I was in the living room.
72
00:03:26,472 --> 00:03:28,736
How many people got
a kick in the head from this?
73
00:03:28,841 --> 00:03:30,001
Everybody always says,
74
00:03:30,109 --> 00:03:33,169
"What would be the difference
if one person weren't alive?"
75
00:03:43,289 --> 00:03:45,280
I came home on November 7, 2001,
76
00:03:45,391 --> 00:03:47,188
to find a message from my sister.
77
00:03:47,293 --> 00:03:49,022
Hi. It's Heather.
It's about 9: 15.
78
00:03:49,128 --> 00:03:51,289
At 3:41 p.m., I called her back.
79
00:03:51,397 --> 00:03:52,921
She told me to sit down.
80
00:03:57,237 --> 00:03:59,762
In the original news,
81
00:03:59,872 --> 00:04:04,104
they said,
"Unidentified man in his 30s
82
00:04:04,210 --> 00:04:06,201
was found in hospital scrubs."
83
00:04:06,312 --> 00:04:08,940
None of those words
described who he was,
84
00:04:09,048 --> 00:04:12,040
and they could put them on paper
and make them true.
85
00:04:12,151 --> 00:04:15,780
Nobody said, "This person,
86
00:04:15,888 --> 00:04:19,289
this wonderful person, was hurt."
87
00:04:19,392 --> 00:04:21,224
We met in first grade
88
00:04:21,327 --> 00:04:23,420
at St. Andrew's School
in Saratoga, California,
89
00:04:23,529 --> 00:04:26,157
and I soon came to think of him
as my closest friend.
90
00:04:26,266 --> 00:04:28,393
It was here,
in the San Jose Bay Area,
91
00:04:28,501 --> 00:04:31,026
scattered across the suburbs
that make up Silicon Valley,
92
00:04:31,137 --> 00:04:32,365
that we all grew up.
93
00:04:32,472 --> 00:04:33,564
There was Chris.
94
00:04:33,673 --> 00:04:35,937
Do I remember how I met Andrew?
It was second grade.
95
00:04:36,042 --> 00:04:36,940
And Matt.
96
00:04:37,043 --> 00:04:40,479
I can say without shame
that we bathed together.
97
00:04:40,580 --> 00:04:41,478
Michelle.
98
00:04:41,581 --> 00:04:43,173
He was the first friend I made
my first day of school.
99
00:04:43,283 --> 00:04:44,181
Jon.
100
00:04:44,284 --> 00:04:45,546
We met the first day of class
101
00:04:45,652 --> 00:04:47,677
because of our names,
Atkinson and Bagby.
102
00:04:47,787 --> 00:04:48,685
Olivier.
103
00:04:48,788 --> 00:04:49,948
We talked for about 20, 30 minutes,
104
00:04:50,056 --> 00:04:51,455
and I realized,
"Wow, this guy's pretty cool."
105
00:04:51,557 --> 00:04:52,357
Heather.
106
00:04:52,392 --> 00:04:53,552
Oh, I'm sure you got to hear
things I didn't get to hear.
107
00:04:53,660 --> 00:04:54,558
Between the two of us,
108
00:04:54,661 --> 00:04:58,529
we might actually be able to put
together a half-decent story.
109
00:04:58,631 --> 00:04:59,529
And there was me.
110
00:04:59,632 --> 00:05:01,031
My name's Kurt,
and I'm a filmmaker.
111
00:05:01,134 --> 00:05:03,364
I'm Kurt Kuenne,
and I play Indiana Jones.
112
00:05:03,469 --> 00:05:05,198
He appeared in every movie
I made growing up.
113
00:05:05,305 --> 00:05:06,704
We made a movie!
114
00:05:06,806 --> 00:05:09,297
He loved playing bad guys...
115
00:05:09,409 --> 00:05:10,376
Shut up!
116
00:05:10,476 --> 00:05:11,704
Jeff, get the cocaine.
117
00:05:11,811 --> 00:05:13,642
A's, huh?
You must be a smart boy.
118
00:05:13,746 --> 00:05:16,078
...and having
a free pass to smoke and swear
119
00:05:16,182 --> 00:05:17,114
in front of his parents.
120
00:05:17,216 --> 00:05:20,344
I will fuck you up!
Kiss my ass, you son of a bitch!
121
00:05:21,020 --> 00:05:22,749
Christ, start the fucking car
and get out of here!
122
00:05:22,855 --> 00:05:24,948
Fuck you!
Fuck all you fucking people!
123
00:05:25,058 --> 00:05:26,992
I did not say the F-word.
I'm sorry.
124
00:05:27,093 --> 00:05:28,526
Which was probably
kind of a cool release
125
00:05:28,628 --> 00:05:31,324
for a kid who made
Eagle Scout by age 15.
126
00:05:31,431 --> 00:05:33,262
Mrs. Bagby, having watched it
127
00:05:33,366 --> 00:05:35,425
where Andrew was running around
yelling and screaming,
128
00:05:35,535 --> 00:05:36,433
kind of went...
129
00:05:36,536 --> 00:05:38,003
I can't really remember being...
130
00:05:38,104 --> 00:05:39,503
"Oh, that's not my son!"
131
00:05:39,605 --> 00:05:41,163
Perhaps you have a different idea
132
00:05:41,274 --> 00:05:43,174
that I got all upset about it.
133
00:05:43,276 --> 00:05:44,140
"Not my son!"
134
00:05:44,243 --> 00:05:46,040
And, eventually,
I even got them in on the act.
135
00:05:46,145 --> 00:05:47,942
Son of a bitch, you little shit!
136
00:05:48,047 --> 00:05:49,207
You're a pain in the ass.
137
00:05:49,315 --> 00:05:51,044
- You little bastard!
- Does that give you the right
138
00:05:51,150 --> 00:05:53,118
to go yelling about
your penis on the air?
139
00:05:53,219 --> 00:05:54,618
It wasn't always fun and games.
140
00:05:54,721 --> 00:05:56,484
- You son of a bitch!
- Ow! Jesus!
141
00:05:56,589 --> 00:05:57,487
Did I actually hit you?
142
00:05:57,590 --> 00:05:59,615
- I didn't hurt your hand, did I?
- Yes, but don't worry about it.
143
00:05:59,726 --> 00:06:01,455
And if you knee me in the balls
again, I'm going to kill you.
144
00:06:01,561 --> 00:06:03,290
And I know I drove him nuts sometimes.
145
00:06:03,396 --> 00:06:04,420
Could you do that one more time?
146
00:06:04,530 --> 00:06:06,191
- One more time.
- Okay, one more time.
147
00:06:06,299 --> 00:06:06,966
One more time.
148
00:06:07,066 --> 00:06:08,260
I want to see that one more
time. That was perfect.
149
00:06:08,368 --> 00:06:10,029
The famous "one more time" line.
150
00:06:10,136 --> 00:06:12,627
If I hear him say
"one more time" one more time,
151
00:06:12,739 --> 00:06:13,637
I'm gonna wring his neck!
152
00:06:13,740 --> 00:06:16,174
Jesus Christ, Kurt.
What do you want?
153
00:06:16,275 --> 00:06:17,469
No, no.
I'm just getting...
154
00:06:17,577 --> 00:06:20,011
But despite it all,
he always supported me.
155
00:06:20,113 --> 00:06:22,377
Kurt, another winner!
Yes!
156
00:06:22,482 --> 00:06:23,608
My God, what are you trying to do?
157
00:06:23,716 --> 00:06:25,650
Give our genius a heart attack?
158
00:06:25,752 --> 00:06:27,947
None of that.
What, do we kiss now or... Oh!
159
00:06:28,054 --> 00:06:29,487
He even invested
in my first feature film
160
00:06:29,589 --> 00:06:31,318
while he was working to save
for medical school.
161
00:06:31,424 --> 00:06:33,358
Everything was perfect.
162
00:06:33,459 --> 00:06:35,620
I don't know what happened.
163
00:06:35,728 --> 00:06:38,026
We got bigger, and we got laid!
164
00:06:38,131 --> 00:06:39,029
At his memorial service,
165
00:06:39,132 --> 00:06:41,464
I talked with his med-school
friend Anthony, who told me...
166
00:06:41,567 --> 00:06:43,558
One of the major things
that Andrew and I did together,
167
00:06:43,669 --> 00:06:48,572
or that we had in common,
was photography.
168
00:06:48,674 --> 00:06:50,642
I had no idea he took pictures,
169
00:06:50,743 --> 00:06:52,142
and I'd known him for 22 years.
170
00:06:52,245 --> 00:06:54,736
What else didn't I know?
171
00:06:54,847 --> 00:06:56,781
I was never going to get
to visit him at his hospital
172
00:06:56,883 --> 00:06:59,443
and see what he was like as a doctor.
173
00:06:59,552 --> 00:07:00,883
I would never be going to his wedding
174
00:07:00,987 --> 00:07:03,751
where I would finally meet his
entire family at the reception.
175
00:07:03,856 --> 00:07:04,823
He would never be telling me
176
00:07:04,924 --> 00:07:07,825
anything I didn't already know
about him.
177
00:07:07,927 --> 00:07:10,555
So I decided to make this movie,
to travel far and wide,
178
00:07:10,663 --> 00:07:12,494
to interview everyone
who ever knew and loved him,
179
00:07:12,598 --> 00:07:14,429
to learn everything there was to know,
180
00:07:14,534 --> 00:07:17,264
and to make one last movie with him.
181
00:07:17,370 --> 00:07:19,235
I had no idea
how many years it would take
182
00:07:19,338 --> 00:07:21,238
or how I would even know
when I was done.
183
00:07:21,340 --> 00:07:24,969
But the longer I waited,
the more memories would be lost.
184
00:07:25,077 --> 00:07:26,806
So I started at home in California,
185
00:07:26,913 --> 00:07:28,437
and, as soon as I could,
I grabbed a camera.
186
00:07:28,548 --> 00:07:29,446
Okay, Andrew, ready?
187
00:07:29,549 --> 00:07:30,573
- And said...
- Action!
188
00:07:34,487 --> 00:07:37,388
How would I describe Andrew to
someone who had never met him?
189
00:07:37,490 --> 00:07:40,459
The man never wore pants.
He only wore shorts.
190
00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,686
That's right.
Constantly!
191
00:07:46,632 --> 00:07:48,293
Well,
Andrew was very good at pool.
192
00:07:48,401 --> 00:07:50,562
Quite frankly, he was
a pool shark, is what he was.
193
00:07:50,670 --> 00:07:53,230
Well, he had a good teacher.
194
00:07:56,876 --> 00:07:59,572
When we first met him, he had
this thing with his fingernails.
195
00:07:59,679 --> 00:08:01,442
Oh, yeah, he'd always
bite his fingernails.
196
00:08:01,547 --> 00:08:03,378
They looked like they'd been
through a shredder.
197
00:08:03,483 --> 00:08:04,381
Too late.
198
00:08:13,092 --> 00:08:16,027
He was probably the most
determined person I've ever met
199
00:08:16,128 --> 00:08:18,392
about doing a particular profession.
200
00:08:18,498 --> 00:08:19,863
His mom worked in the business,
so...
201
00:08:19,966 --> 00:08:26,201
We would sit and discuss
a topic like venereal disease.
202
00:08:38,184 --> 00:08:41,779
He didn't get an offer
to come to medical school
203
00:08:41,888 --> 00:08:43,412
at the end of the first year.
204
00:08:43,523 --> 00:08:46,583
I remember that was a big downer.
205
00:08:46,692 --> 00:08:47,920
I think he felt like he wasn't...
206
00:08:48,027 --> 00:08:50,086
like things were
kind of stalled for him
207
00:08:50,196 --> 00:08:52,824
and he wasn't really...
208
00:08:52,932 --> 00:08:55,059
he wasn't living up to expectations.
209
00:09:00,873 --> 00:09:02,602
"Well, what are you gonna do?"
210
00:09:02,708 --> 00:09:04,938
"Okay, I'll get a job,
and I'll apply again."
211
00:09:05,044 --> 00:09:06,136
Okay.
212
00:09:06,245 --> 00:09:08,338
That's problem, solution.
213
00:09:14,754 --> 00:09:16,847
And then, of course, Heather
brought home this application
214
00:09:16,956 --> 00:09:20,050
she had picked up from Memorial
University of Newfoundland.
215
00:09:20,159 --> 00:09:22,127
I had to go look up St. John's
on the map
216
00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:23,422
when he got accepted there.
217
00:09:23,529 --> 00:09:25,588
I knew,
"That's over in the east coast."
218
00:09:49,722 --> 00:09:52,350
He's now engaged to this lovely girl,
219
00:09:52,458 --> 00:09:55,188
and he's gonna go to med school.
It was great.
220
00:09:55,294 --> 00:09:56,488
Graduation, he was in shorts.
221
00:09:56,596 --> 00:09:57,995
Hold on a second.
We'll come back to this.
222
00:09:58,097 --> 00:09:59,428
But before we go any further,
223
00:09:59,532 --> 00:10:01,830
you've got to know what happened.
224
00:10:01,934 --> 00:10:03,868
The whole truth.
225
00:10:03,970 --> 00:10:04,937
So here it is.
226
00:10:08,774 --> 00:10:11,572
A couple of policemen met us
at the airport in Pittsburgh.
227
00:10:11,677 --> 00:10:14,009
Took us over to the hospital.
228
00:10:14,113 --> 00:10:17,048
Bill and Clark picked us up
229
00:10:17,149 --> 00:10:22,246
and took us over to Bacha's
Funeral Home in Greensburg.
230
00:10:22,355 --> 00:10:24,380
And then he took us down a stairway.
231
00:10:24,490 --> 00:10:28,324
Gurney at the other end...
232
00:10:28,427 --> 00:10:31,123
with a white sheet over a body.
233
00:10:31,230 --> 00:10:32,959
And...
234
00:10:35,001 --> 00:10:37,799
...went over to him and when
we could see his face...
235
00:10:40,806 --> 00:10:44,503
...I said, "It's really him."
236
00:10:45,044 --> 00:10:46,739
I kissed him and held him,
237
00:10:46,846 --> 00:10:51,715
and Kate kissed him and held him
and kissed him some more.
238
00:10:51,817 --> 00:10:53,876
Tears are dropping on him,
of course,
239
00:10:53,986 --> 00:10:57,444
and Kate went to wipe
one of those away off his cheek,
240
00:10:57,556 --> 00:11:04,086
and a plug came out where he'd
been shot in the left cheek.
241
00:11:04,196 --> 00:11:06,426
Oh, God.
242
00:11:15,374 --> 00:11:17,001
She pushed it back in
and cried some more.
243
00:11:17,109 --> 00:11:19,839
After that, I lost it.
I just ran outside and screamed.
244
00:11:19,945 --> 00:11:22,311
I was so fucking mad,
I couldn't see straight.
245
00:11:22,415 --> 00:11:25,578
God damn it, I hated.
I've never hated like that.
246
00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:28,051
Didn't even know who I hated.
Didn't know who it was then.
247
00:11:28,154 --> 00:11:31,385
Just knew that somebody
purposely put him there.
248
00:11:31,490 --> 00:11:33,390
Whoever that is is a monster.
249
00:11:33,492 --> 00:11:35,426
Well, who hurt him?
250
00:11:35,528 --> 00:11:38,429
A very bad person.
251
00:11:38,531 --> 00:11:41,261
Which bad person?
252
00:11:43,169 --> 00:11:46,263
- A lady?
- Mm-hmm.
253
00:11:46,372 --> 00:11:47,896
What's her name?
254
00:11:48,007 --> 00:11:49,736
Shirley.
255
00:11:49,842 --> 00:11:51,605
Shirley?
256
00:11:52,211 --> 00:11:54,372
Why'd she kill him?
257
00:12:00,453 --> 00:12:03,911
I couldn't figure out who
she was in relation to Andrew
258
00:12:04,023 --> 00:12:07,117
since Andrew talked a lot about women
259
00:12:07,226 --> 00:12:08,693
but never really mentioned her.
260
00:12:08,794 --> 00:12:10,785
Collette,
this is Bagby's new girlfriend.
261
00:12:10,896 --> 00:12:12,193
Makes me sick to my stomach now,
262
00:12:12,298 --> 00:12:15,597
but I was so excited
that he was dating somebody.
263
00:12:15,701 --> 00:12:17,931
Come on, Shirley.
Get out from behind him.
264
00:12:18,037 --> 00:12:19,402
I knew he'd been struggling
265
00:12:19,505 --> 00:12:22,235
with me moving on
and dating other people.
266
00:12:22,341 --> 00:12:24,707
- Or maybe you will.
- You already met me!
267
00:12:24,810 --> 00:12:27,404
I was excited at the thought
that maybe he had found somebody
268
00:12:27,513 --> 00:12:31,472
that he, you know,
could really be happy with.
269
00:12:33,085 --> 00:12:35,019
But it didn't turn out that way.
270
00:12:42,695 --> 00:12:45,664
- Did you know her?
- Yeah.
271
00:12:47,166 --> 00:12:49,657
Do you remember
when they started dating?
272
00:12:49,769 --> 00:12:50,736
Mm-hmm.
273
00:12:50,836 --> 00:12:51,825
She just kind of appeared,
274
00:12:51,937 --> 00:12:54,872
and then she was there
all the time all of a sudden.
275
00:12:54,974 --> 00:12:58,375
And just didn't seem suited for him.
276
00:13:02,548 --> 00:13:05,073
He did say that there was
a considerable age difference.
277
00:13:05,184 --> 00:13:07,584
And then the second time
I heard him talk about it,
278
00:13:07,686 --> 00:13:09,483
he actually fessed
to the age difference,
279
00:13:09,588 --> 00:13:10,555
and I was like, "Holy shit!"
280
00:13:12,625 --> 00:13:15,526
Shirley's got three kids!
Whoo-hoo!
281
00:13:19,165 --> 00:13:20,757
Me, I always had to give him
a hard time,
282
00:13:20,866 --> 00:13:22,299
so I'd tease him about nailing grandma.
283
00:13:22,401 --> 00:13:24,995
And she seemed so incongruous
284
00:13:25,104 --> 00:13:27,038
with who I would picture him with.
285
00:13:27,139 --> 00:13:29,300
A person like that isn't just,
like, completely normal
286
00:13:29,408 --> 00:13:31,740
and then, one day,
they become a psycho, you know?
287
00:13:31,844 --> 00:13:33,243
I mean,
there had to be some signs.
288
00:13:33,345 --> 00:13:35,779
She'd just be really
inappropriate with things.
289
00:13:35,881 --> 00:13:38,509
Poor taste,
things that she would say.
290
00:13:38,617 --> 00:13:41,108
She was always making
sexually inappropriate comments.
291
00:13:41,220 --> 00:13:42,118
But never threatening.
292
00:13:42,221 --> 00:13:45,019
We never thought of her
as being threatening,
293
00:13:45,124 --> 00:13:47,092
but, just,
something was a little off.
294
00:13:47,193 --> 00:13:48,490
Something wasn't right.
295
00:13:48,594 --> 00:13:49,925
She started calling me
on a regular basis.
296
00:13:50,029 --> 00:13:51,360
She talked forever.
297
00:13:51,463 --> 00:13:55,126
Crude things about
their intimate relationship.
298
00:13:55,234 --> 00:13:56,667
But I thought it was kind of odd
when I met her
299
00:13:56,769 --> 00:13:58,498
that she was not practicing.
300
00:13:58,604 --> 00:14:02,005
She had finished residency
for quite some time,
301
00:14:02,107 --> 00:14:04,575
and yet she was having trouble
getting her credentials.
302
00:14:04,677 --> 00:14:07,339
Nobody said anything
'cause we all respected Andrew.
303
00:14:07,446 --> 00:14:10,973
And if he wasn't putting the
pieces together or something,
304
00:14:11,083 --> 00:14:13,574
it just makes me think
he was just not caring.
305
00:14:13,686 --> 00:14:15,779
He was likely 4,000 miles away
306
00:14:15,888 --> 00:14:18,220
from where he wanted to be
for the rest of his life.
307
00:14:18,324 --> 00:14:20,189
He had had a very difficult,
308
00:14:20,292 --> 00:14:23,693
kind of heartbreaking type
of situation with Heather.
309
00:14:23,796 --> 00:14:25,195
Whatever happened with their breakup
310
00:14:25,297 --> 00:14:26,958
really kind of devastated him
311
00:14:27,066 --> 00:14:31,366
and just left him vulnerable
to someone like Shirley.
312
00:14:31,470 --> 00:14:32,459
"Andrew!
313
00:14:32,571 --> 00:14:34,835
You know you can do a lot better."
314
00:14:34,940 --> 00:14:36,703
He said,
"Ah, no, I really can't."
315
00:14:36,809 --> 00:14:38,436
He'd poke fun at himself all the time.
316
00:14:38,544 --> 00:14:41,342
He'd say he was a short,
portly little fella.
317
00:14:45,284 --> 00:14:46,546
You don't need to go out with a woman
318
00:14:46,652 --> 00:14:47,914
because you can't
think you can do better.
319
00:14:48,020 --> 00:14:49,180
It was a comfort.
320
00:14:49,288 --> 00:14:51,779
And, in Newfoundland,
it was somebody to be around
321
00:14:51,891 --> 00:14:53,085
and he enjoyed it.
322
00:14:57,730 --> 00:14:59,857
Oh, it's just a senior-year thing.
323
00:14:59,965 --> 00:15:02,092
After graduation,
he came back to the U.S.
324
00:15:02,201 --> 00:15:04,533
to do a surgery residency
in Syracuse, New York,
325
00:15:04,637 --> 00:15:05,695
and he was miserable.
326
00:15:05,804 --> 00:15:06,896
He hated it.
327
00:15:07,006 --> 00:15:09,770
Shirley also decided to move
to the States to practice.
328
00:15:14,313 --> 00:15:17,544
We were not very aware
of his year in Syracuse,
329
00:15:17,650 --> 00:15:20,050
what a problem she became to him there.
330
00:15:25,224 --> 00:15:27,317
Was a real hard year for him.
331
00:15:27,426 --> 00:15:29,189
There was really no time for anything.
332
00:15:29,295 --> 00:15:31,126
And the fact
that there was this somebody
333
00:15:31,230 --> 00:15:32,891
that was making a lot of effort
334
00:15:32,998 --> 00:15:35,023
to maintain a relationship with him
335
00:15:35,134 --> 00:15:37,659
and represented something else
besides the misery
336
00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:39,795
that it sounded like his internship was
337
00:15:39,905 --> 00:15:42,237
was hard for him to pass up.
338
00:15:42,341 --> 00:15:44,241
He pretty quickly realized
that surgery wasn't for him
339
00:15:44,343 --> 00:15:46,243
and switched
to a family-practice residency
340
00:15:46,345 --> 00:15:47,505
in Latrobe, Pennsylvania,
341
00:15:47,613 --> 00:15:49,171
in July of 2001.
342
00:15:49,281 --> 00:15:50,305
And he loved it.
343
00:15:50,416 --> 00:15:52,577
He said, "When you finally find
that thing
344
00:15:52,685 --> 00:15:55,051
that you know is your niche,
345
00:15:55,154 --> 00:15:56,587
it's worth everything in the world."
346
00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:58,418
And he now wanted her to go away.
347
00:15:58,524 --> 00:16:00,515
He did not invite her
to Matt's wedding.
348
00:16:00,626 --> 00:16:01,684
Yeah, and she thought
she was going to be coming.
349
00:16:01,794 --> 00:16:02,852
She just already had it arranged.
350
00:16:02,962 --> 00:16:04,293
The morning of the wedding,
351
00:16:04,396 --> 00:16:06,296
Andrew's cellphone started ringing.
352
00:16:06,398 --> 00:16:08,127
And he'd answer it,
and it's Shirley.
353
00:16:08,233 --> 00:16:10,292
A minute or two later, it'd ring
again, and it's her again.
354
00:16:10,402 --> 00:16:12,165
Andrew got more and more upset
with her.
355
00:16:12,271 --> 00:16:15,707
"What is your fucking problem?"
And he clicked off the phone.
356
00:16:15,808 --> 00:16:18,641
She left 30-some-odd messages
on his phone.
357
00:16:20,512 --> 00:16:23,913
His phone in his house rang,
like, 30 times.
358
00:16:24,016 --> 00:16:25,643
Then his cellphone rang 30 times.
359
00:16:25,751 --> 00:16:27,651
He's like, "Oh, it's her.
I don't want to talk with her."
360
00:16:29,455 --> 00:16:31,719
Apparently,
Andrew had already asked Shirley
361
00:16:31,824 --> 00:16:35,419
to accompany him to Karl and
Marci's wedding, October 20th,
362
00:16:35,527 --> 00:16:36,516
before July.
363
00:16:36,628 --> 00:16:38,823
He had broken up with her
a month before in his mind.
364
00:16:38,931 --> 00:16:40,956
It sounds so easy,
but it's hard
365
00:16:41,066 --> 00:16:43,296
when you're a genuine person who cares.
366
00:16:43,402 --> 00:16:44,596
He didn't know
how to be a son of a bitch
367
00:16:44,703 --> 00:16:46,000
because he wasn't a son of a bitch.
368
00:16:46,105 --> 00:16:48,665
Shirley had been really,
like, all over Andrew.
369
00:16:48,774 --> 00:16:51,140
Just acting possessive of him.
370
00:16:51,243 --> 00:16:52,972
I said, "Andrew, hey,
do you want something to drink?"
371
00:16:53,078 --> 00:16:54,807
and she said, "There you go,
hitting on the best man."
372
00:16:54,913 --> 00:16:58,542
My jaw dropped. It had to have.
I remember going...
373
00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:01,050
On the afternoon
of Saturday, November 3, 2001,
374
00:17:01,153 --> 00:17:02,711
he broke up with Shirley
once and for all
375
00:17:02,821 --> 00:17:05,255
over lunch at the airport
in Latrobe, Pennsylvania.
376
00:17:05,357 --> 00:17:06,289
Then he put her on a plane
377
00:17:06,392 --> 00:17:08,121
back to her place
in Council Bluffs, Iowa,
378
00:17:08,227 --> 00:17:10,491
1,000 miles away.
379
00:17:17,002 --> 00:17:19,197
I remember the morning
that Shirley showed up.
380
00:17:19,304 --> 00:17:21,295
He said, "You'll never guess
381
00:17:21,407 --> 00:17:24,137
who showed up on my doorstep at 5:30."
382
00:17:24,243 --> 00:17:27,576
And I said, "Who?"
He said, "The psychotic bitch."
383
00:17:27,679 --> 00:17:30,147
And I told him, I said,
"You know, Andrew,
384
00:17:30,249 --> 00:17:33,309
when I break up with somebody
and put them on a plane
385
00:17:33,419 --> 00:17:35,284
and send them 1,300 miles away,
386
00:17:35,387 --> 00:17:37,355
they knock on my front door,
387
00:17:37,456 --> 00:17:40,448
I'm going out the back door
and I'm calling the police."
388
00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:42,254
He said, "What do you mean?"
389
00:17:42,361 --> 00:17:44,591
I said, "Andrew."
390
00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:48,664
I said, "Be serious.
391
00:17:48,767 --> 00:17:51,759
Nobody drives 16 hours
392
00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:53,098
after you've just broken up with them."
393
00:17:53,205 --> 00:17:55,503
I said,
"Do not meet her in private."
394
00:17:55,607 --> 00:17:57,165
He said, "What can happen?"
395
00:17:57,276 --> 00:17:58,903
And he said, "I'm gonna
need to catch up with you
396
00:17:59,011 --> 00:18:00,501
and we're gonna have to do
some serious talking."
397
00:18:00,612 --> 00:18:03,672
I said, "Bring some beer.
I only live a block away.
398
00:18:03,782 --> 00:18:05,044
When do you think you'll be done?"
399
00:18:05,150 --> 00:18:07,311
He said, "Well, it's 4:30 now.
400
00:18:07,419 --> 00:18:09,046
Meeting her at 6:00.
401
00:18:09,154 --> 00:18:11,486
7:30, I'll be at your house."
402
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:14,821
Things people should know about Andrew.
403
00:18:14,927 --> 00:18:16,053
He was never late.
404
00:18:16,161 --> 00:18:17,458
And you know what?
405
00:18:17,563 --> 00:18:20,088
When Andrew didn't show up at 7:30,
406
00:18:20,199 --> 00:18:23,066
I knew something was very wrong.
407
00:18:23,168 --> 00:18:25,568
And when I went back down at 9:00
408
00:18:25,671 --> 00:18:28,003
and didn't see his car there...
409
00:18:28,774 --> 00:18:30,401
I knew something was wrong.
410
00:18:33,011 --> 00:18:35,445
Well, let me tell you
the events of the day.
411
00:18:35,547 --> 00:18:37,174
Andrew didn't show up
for morning report.
412
00:18:37,282 --> 00:18:39,113
Morning report ended around 8:00.
413
00:18:39,218 --> 00:18:40,913
I went down to my office.
I called Andrew's house.
414
00:18:41,019 --> 00:18:42,543
Hi.
You've reached Andrew Bagby.
415
00:18:42,654 --> 00:18:44,451
Please leave a message
at the tone. Thank you.
416
00:18:50,796 --> 00:18:52,627
Called his cellphone.
"Andrew, where are you at?"
417
00:18:52,731 --> 00:18:54,392
No answer on either one.
418
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:56,491
As I recall,
we're getting pretty close
419
00:18:56,602 --> 00:18:57,796
to 9:00 in the morning,
420
00:18:57,903 --> 00:18:59,894
and Rhonda and I
and some of the residents
421
00:19:00,005 --> 00:19:01,438
are starting to get a little nervous.
422
00:19:01,540 --> 00:19:02,768
I remember Bill coming in
423
00:19:02,875 --> 00:19:04,103
and standing in front of the television
424
00:19:04,209 --> 00:19:05,107
and telling us.
425
00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:06,871
One of the E.R. docs
turned to me and said,
426
00:19:06,979 --> 00:19:11,313
"They found a body in scrubs
out at Keystone Park."
427
00:19:11,416 --> 00:19:12,644
Dead silence fell over.
428
00:19:12,751 --> 00:19:14,685
A heaviness like I've never felt.
429
00:19:14,786 --> 00:19:17,346
And eventually almost everyone
was congregated there
430
00:19:17,456 --> 00:19:18,684
just waiting for more news.
431
00:19:18,790 --> 00:19:20,815
Rhonda got the call,
and she said to me,
432
00:19:20,926 --> 00:19:23,360
"They need you in Mr. Clark's
office right now."
433
00:19:23,462 --> 00:19:24,554
And I remember my heart pounding,
434
00:19:24,663 --> 00:19:26,460
going up at damn near a sprint.
435
00:19:26,565 --> 00:19:28,328
I opened the door,
and I remember seeing
436
00:19:28,433 --> 00:19:31,027
three Pennsylvania State Police
troopers in uniform
437
00:19:31,136 --> 00:19:32,262
sitting in the room.
438
00:19:32,371 --> 00:19:34,635
And I said, "You're here
to tell me about Andrew Bagby."
439
00:19:34,740 --> 00:19:37,436
They asked for us all to gather
in the conference room.
440
00:19:37,543 --> 00:19:39,602
- And they closed the door.
- He cleared his throat.
441
00:19:39,711 --> 00:19:41,736
He just walked right up
to the podium and he said...
442
00:19:41,847 --> 00:19:43,405
"Andrew Bagby is dead."
443
00:19:45,083 --> 00:19:47,381
I said, "Well, hell,
you don't have to look far."
444
00:19:47,486 --> 00:19:49,647
They're like,
"What do you mean?"
445
00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:58,494
I said, "This woman was in town.
She was here."
446
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:06,001
I said, "Find her, and I think
you'll find who did this."
447
00:20:16,515 --> 00:20:19,916
A summary of the evidence
against Shirley Turner.
448
00:20:20,018 --> 00:20:22,384
He was found on the morning
of Tuesday, November 6th,
449
00:20:22,487 --> 00:20:24,045
laying behind his car in a parking lot
450
00:20:24,156 --> 00:20:26,954
at Keystone State Park
in Derry Township, Pennsylvania.
451
00:20:27,059 --> 00:20:28,492
A man walking through Keystone Park
452
00:20:28,594 --> 00:20:31,028
at 6: 10 p.m. the previous
evening, November 5th,
453
00:20:31,129 --> 00:20:34,326
had seen his black Toyota
Corolla parked next to an SUV.
454
00:20:34,433 --> 00:20:35,491
This was 10 minutes
455
00:20:35,601 --> 00:20:37,796
after he told Clark
he was going to meet Shirley.
456
00:20:37,903 --> 00:20:38,961
"Meeting her at 6:00."
457
00:20:39,071 --> 00:20:41,437
Shirley drove a Toyota RAV4 SUV.
458
00:20:41,540 --> 00:20:43,201
He was shot five times.
459
00:20:43,308 --> 00:20:44,707
In the face, the chest,
460
00:20:44,810 --> 00:20:46,710
twice in the buttocks,
and in the back of the head.
461
00:20:46,812 --> 00:20:48,939
He also received a blunt trauma
to the back of the head.
462
00:20:49,047 --> 00:20:49,979
That didn't sound random.
463
00:20:50,082 --> 00:20:51,947
That sounded like rage and vengeance.
464
00:20:52,050 --> 00:20:55,247
The ammunition used
was CCI.22-caliber bullets.
465
00:20:55,354 --> 00:20:56,286
There were six spent casings
and one live round
466
00:20:56,388 --> 00:20:58,117
on the ground beside him.
467
00:20:58,223 --> 00:21:00,657
Shirley owned a Phoenix Arms
.22-caliber handgun.
468
00:21:16,942 --> 00:21:18,842
She had three lessons
with a firearms instructor
469
00:21:18,944 --> 00:21:20,070
who said that at her last lesson
470
00:21:20,178 --> 00:21:22,806
she was using CCI.22-caliber ammunition
471
00:21:22,914 --> 00:21:24,142
and her gun malfunctioned
472
00:21:24,249 --> 00:21:26,979
and would sometimes eject
live rounds onto the ground.
473
00:21:33,292 --> 00:21:35,055
Then she said,
"No, I can't find it."
474
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:43,894
Then she said,
"I gave the gun to Andrew."
475
00:21:44,002 --> 00:21:45,435
She claimed she was home sick all day
476
00:21:45,537 --> 00:21:46,834
on Monday, November 5th.
477
00:21:57,115 --> 00:22:00,312
The cellphone records show
that a phone call was made
478
00:22:00,419 --> 00:22:01,386
here, here, here, and here.
479
00:22:01,486 --> 00:22:02,919
While she claims to be home in bed,
480
00:22:03,021 --> 00:22:05,319
she's making cellphone calls
from Chicago, Illinois,
481
00:22:05,424 --> 00:22:08,154
at 7:08 and 7: 10 p.m.
on Sunday, November 4th.
482
00:22:08,260 --> 00:22:09,625
Then another from South Bend, Indiana,
483
00:22:09,728 --> 00:22:11,719
at 10: 19 p.m. that night.
484
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:13,263
Then another
from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,
485
00:22:13,365 --> 00:22:15,560
at 8:07 a.m. the next
morning, November 5th,
486
00:22:15,667 --> 00:22:16,634
the day he was killed.
487
00:22:16,735 --> 00:22:18,134
She logged on to eBay that morning
488
00:22:18,236 --> 00:22:19,396
from his computer at his house.
489
00:22:19,504 --> 00:22:20,304
And back again.
490
00:22:20,305 --> 00:22:21,897
At 11:26 p.m. that night,
491
00:22:22,007 --> 00:22:23,975
she makes another call
from Cleveland, Ohio,
492
00:22:24,076 --> 00:22:25,634
clearly on her way home this time.
493
00:22:25,744 --> 00:22:27,041
Then another call from Stuart, Iowa,
494
00:22:27,145 --> 00:22:29,978
at 9:48 a.m. the next morning,
Tuesday, November 6th.
495
00:22:30,082 --> 00:22:32,175
Then another once she got home
to Council Bluffs.
496
00:22:32,284 --> 00:22:33,444
And this one's to him.
497
00:22:42,494 --> 00:22:43,392
But when she realized
498
00:22:43,495 --> 00:22:44,689
that she couldn't possibly
be sick in bed
499
00:22:44,796 --> 00:22:46,229
when she'd been caught
making cellphone calls
500
00:22:46,331 --> 00:22:47,457
from Pennsylvania and back,
501
00:22:47,566 --> 00:22:48,624
she changed her story again.
502
00:22:48,734 --> 00:22:52,101
Then she said, "I gave the gun
to Andrew in the parking lot,
503
00:22:52,204 --> 00:22:54,138
and I saw him put it in his trunk."
504
00:23:04,783 --> 00:23:09,686
And that clearly shows if she
did this, she planned it.
505
00:23:09,788 --> 00:23:13,417
She is a manipulative,
deceitful planner of a murder.
506
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,154
In order to prove her whereabouts
507
00:23:16,261 --> 00:23:17,751
when she made these phone calls,
508
00:23:17,863 --> 00:23:20,093
each individual cell tower
along her 16-hour drive
509
00:23:20,198 --> 00:23:21,222
had to be manually checked,
510
00:23:21,333 --> 00:23:23,893
which was a process
that took almost two weeks.
511
00:23:24,002 --> 00:23:26,368
While the police were uncovering
this crucial piece of evidence,
512
00:23:26,471 --> 00:23:27,836
Shirley left the United States
513
00:23:27,939 --> 00:23:31,534
for her home
in St. John's, Newfoundland.
514
00:23:32,144 --> 00:23:33,771
We were absolutely helpless
515
00:23:33,879 --> 00:23:35,437
for the whole time we were in Latrobe
516
00:23:35,547 --> 00:23:38,710
after this initial nightmare.
517
00:23:38,817 --> 00:23:41,718
The other residents and Andrew's...
518
00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:43,515
They're Andrew friends now...
519
00:23:43,622 --> 00:23:46,887
came in, sat with us,
brought us meals.
520
00:23:46,992 --> 00:23:50,325
They had a sign-up sheet at the
hospital to bring us a dinner
521
00:23:50,429 --> 00:23:52,954
and sit and cry with us
522
00:23:53,064 --> 00:23:57,296
and listen to us and cry some more.
523
00:23:57,402 --> 00:23:58,391
Great people.
524
00:23:58,503 --> 00:24:01,097
The whole hospital grieved.
It was profound.
525
00:24:01,206 --> 00:24:06,109
Just picture the masses
that just came out for that.
526
00:24:06,211 --> 00:24:08,338
From memorials
in Newfoundland to California
527
00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:09,436
to England.
528
00:24:09,548 --> 00:24:11,345
- To St. Louis.
- To Latrobe.
529
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,543
I'm so proud to say
that I loved him so very much.
530
00:24:13,652 --> 00:24:17,452
I'd be happy if I had 1/10
the people care 1/2 about me
531
00:24:17,556 --> 00:24:18,682
as much as they did Andrew.
532
00:24:40,212 --> 00:24:41,804
I know at the point
we had the memorial service,
533
00:24:41,913 --> 00:24:44,040
she was back in Canada.
534
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:46,174
She was there at the memorial
service that we had here.
535
00:24:46,284 --> 00:24:48,081
She broke down crying
during the service
536
00:24:48,186 --> 00:24:50,120
and sobbing really loud,
537
00:24:50,222 --> 00:24:53,851
and, you know, I wonder if it
wasn't all just for a show.
538
00:24:53,959 --> 00:24:57,053
And then fear at that point for,
you know, Heather's safety.
539
00:24:57,162 --> 00:24:58,060
She came up
540
00:24:58,163 --> 00:25:00,961
and sort of butted one
of my friends out beside me
541
00:25:01,066 --> 00:25:04,229
and said just awful things
542
00:25:04,336 --> 00:25:07,601
and, obviously,
I cared a lot more about him
543
00:25:07,706 --> 00:25:08,695
than he ever cared about me.
544
00:25:08,807 --> 00:25:12,208
And I definitely
wasn't important in his life.
545
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:14,437
Got an e-mail from Shirley.
546
00:25:14,546 --> 00:25:15,740
A horrible, scathing e-mail.
547
00:25:15,847 --> 00:25:16,814
It was all basically,
548
00:25:16,915 --> 00:25:18,906
I was nothing,
and she was everything.
549
00:25:19,017 --> 00:25:22,111
How wonderful their love was
and how that'll never die now.
550
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:23,949
To try to lure her
back to the United States,
551
00:25:24,055 --> 00:25:26,148
Shirley was invited to the
memorial service in California,
552
00:25:26,258 --> 00:25:28,192
but she didn't take the bait.
553
00:25:28,293 --> 00:25:30,090
So, finally, she was charged.
554
00:25:30,195 --> 00:25:32,561
She was arrested
in St. John's, Newfoundland,
555
00:25:32,664 --> 00:25:34,097
on December 12, 2001,
556
00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:37,498
and was let go on bail
the very same day.
557
00:25:37,602 --> 00:25:38,660
And then this flight risk.
558
00:25:38,770 --> 00:25:40,931
It seemed to me common sense
that if she isn't
559
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:43,564
in the jurisdiction
where they want her, she's fled.
560
00:25:43,675 --> 00:25:45,609
Crown Prosecutor Mike Madden
did not even argue
561
00:25:45,710 --> 00:25:46,836
against her release on bail
562
00:25:46,945 --> 00:25:48,037
and instead entered the courtroom
563
00:25:48,146 --> 00:25:49,670
with an agreement already
in place for her release.
564
00:25:49,781 --> 00:25:51,146
Pending the next hearing
565
00:25:51,249 --> 00:25:53,149
in the extradition process
to the United States,
566
00:25:53,251 --> 00:25:55,446
all Justice David Russell
required Shirley to do
567
00:25:55,554 --> 00:25:58,648
was post $75,000 in sureties.
568
00:25:58,757 --> 00:26:01,817
$65,000 of this was posted
by her personal psychiatrist,
569
00:26:01,927 --> 00:26:02,894
but I'll come back to him.
570
00:26:02,994 --> 00:26:04,018
Turn in her passports,
571
00:26:04,129 --> 00:26:06,063
sign in once a week
at the local police station,
572
00:26:06,164 --> 00:26:07,654
promise not to leave Newfoundland,
573
00:26:07,766 --> 00:26:09,563
and avoid contact with these people.
574
00:26:09,668 --> 00:26:11,568
And with that,
the government of Canada
575
00:26:11,670 --> 00:26:14,161
let a probable pre-meditated
first-degree murderer
576
00:26:14,272 --> 00:26:15,967
walk the streets.
577
00:26:16,074 --> 00:26:17,769
- I thought it was crazy.
- Should never be.
578
00:26:17,876 --> 00:26:20,140
- Should never have been.
- I thought it was insane.
579
00:26:20,245 --> 00:26:21,712
Who the hell is the system protecting?
580
00:26:21,813 --> 00:26:24,077
I could not believe this was happening.
581
00:26:24,182 --> 00:26:27,481
But the most unbelievable part
was when we found out about you.
582
00:26:27,586 --> 00:26:30,180
Kurt, this is Matt Oetinger.
583
00:26:30,288 --> 00:26:32,518
I just got a call from Mrs. Bagby.
584
00:26:32,624 --> 00:26:36,025
The abbreviated version is
what's her bucket, that bitch,
585
00:26:36,127 --> 00:26:38,721
held a press conference
586
00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:40,320
and announced she's 4 months pregnant
587
00:26:40,432 --> 00:26:41,797
with Andrew's baby.
588
00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:44,391
They can't prove it
until the child's born.
589
00:26:44,502 --> 00:26:48,996
If it is true, the Bagbys
are going to sue for custody.
590
00:26:51,109 --> 00:26:53,043
My movie now took on
a whole new meaning.
591
00:26:53,144 --> 00:26:55,738
It was no longer just my search
for what was left of your dad.
592
00:26:55,847 --> 00:26:58,611
It might be the only way you
could one day go back in time,
593
00:26:58,717 --> 00:27:00,651
see, and get to know him.
594
00:27:00,752 --> 00:27:02,481
This is a time machine.
595
00:27:02,587 --> 00:27:04,384
Yes.
A time machine.
596
00:27:04,489 --> 00:27:06,081
And I vowed to collect
every memory for you
597
00:27:06,191 --> 00:27:07,590
before they were gone.
598
00:27:07,692 --> 00:27:10,160
So, finally, I set off.
First, I would go to England
599
00:27:10,261 --> 00:27:12,388
to interview your grandma's
side of the family for you.
600
00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:13,759
Then I'd return to the U.S.
601
00:27:13,865 --> 00:27:16,095
to do an epic road trip
across North America.
602
00:27:16,201 --> 00:27:18,669
I'd start on the west coast
of California and motor east,
603
00:27:18,770 --> 00:27:20,795
stopping to interview all of
your dad's friends and family
604
00:27:20,905 --> 00:27:21,803
along the way.
605
00:27:21,906 --> 00:27:23,965
And I would keep driving
until the land ran out
606
00:27:24,075 --> 00:27:25,633
in St. John's, Newfoundland,
607
00:27:25,744 --> 00:27:27,769
the eastern-most point
in all of North America,
608
00:27:27,879 --> 00:27:30,939
where the last living piece
of Andrew, you,
609
00:27:31,049 --> 00:27:32,482
would be waiting for me.
610
00:27:32,584 --> 00:27:34,017
I grabbed a digital video camera,
611
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,781
a 16mm wind-up movie camera,
and an old Nikon.
612
00:27:36,888 --> 00:27:38,185
I have a good idea.
613
00:27:38,289 --> 00:27:40,280
I'll go back in time
and stop you from dying.
614
00:27:40,392 --> 00:27:43,486
And set off on a quest
to bring your dad back to life.
615
00:27:43,595 --> 00:27:45,495
And while I raced to rescue
your history,
616
00:27:45,597 --> 00:27:47,497
your grandma and grandpa
quit their jobs,
617
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:49,430
dug into their savings,
and gave up everything
618
00:27:49,534 --> 00:27:52,196
to move to Newfoundland
to fight for your future.
619
00:27:54,005 --> 00:27:58,704
I met Kate and David
in the spring of 2002.
620
00:27:58,810 --> 00:28:00,072
I'll never forget it.
621
00:28:00,178 --> 00:28:02,043
They needed a lawyer to assist them
622
00:28:02,147 --> 00:28:04,138
in making sure that their rights
623
00:28:04,249 --> 00:28:06,046
and the baby's rights
were protected, I guess.
624
00:28:06,151 --> 00:28:08,619
I instantly liked them.
625
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,381
I thought that it was so important
626
00:28:10,488 --> 00:28:12,456
that they have a relationship
with that child.
627
00:28:12,557 --> 00:28:14,718
Our lawyer Jackie
went to see Betty Day,
628
00:28:14,826 --> 00:28:17,260
an administrator somewhere
in the hierarchy
629
00:28:17,362 --> 00:28:18,795
of Child Protective Services,
630
00:28:18,897 --> 00:28:22,128
and told her that we,
the Bagbys,
631
00:28:22,233 --> 00:28:24,758
are concerned
about the safety of the baby
632
00:28:24,869 --> 00:28:29,238
because the mother is accused
of a pre-meditated murder.
633
00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:32,036
To me, I thought they were
very emotionally intelligent
634
00:28:32,143 --> 00:28:35,635
in how they were bearing up
635
00:28:35,747 --> 00:28:38,272
under all of this incredible stress.
636
00:28:38,383 --> 00:28:39,941
You know,
that was a Sunday afternoon.
637
00:28:40,051 --> 00:28:40,983
The next morning,
638
00:28:41,086 --> 00:28:43,452
they had to sit in the courtroom
and look at her.
639
00:28:45,356 --> 00:28:47,517
When your grandma and grandpa
first arrived in Canada,
640
00:28:47,625 --> 00:28:49,616
they were told,
"The law is slow."
641
00:28:49,728 --> 00:28:50,854
And they weren't kidding.
642
00:28:50,962 --> 00:28:52,020
February 15th.
643
00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:53,222
Prosecutor Mike Madden acknowledged
644
00:28:53,331 --> 00:28:55,196
that the extradition request
had been received.
645
00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:56,790
They adjourned until March 11th,
646
00:28:56,901 --> 00:28:58,095
when they decided they'd reconvene
647
00:28:58,203 --> 00:28:59,636
to select a date
for the extradition hearing
648
00:28:59,738 --> 00:29:01,000
on March 25th,
where they decided
649
00:29:01,106 --> 00:29:03,006
to set the date
for the extradition hearing
650
00:29:03,108 --> 00:29:05,042
for May 27th, where they got
caught up debating
651
00:29:05,143 --> 00:29:06,770
the French-versus-English translations
652
00:29:06,878 --> 00:29:08,505
of Section 32 of the Extradition Act,
653
00:29:08,613 --> 00:29:09,602
and decided to adjourn
654
00:29:09,714 --> 00:29:11,739
for a specific translation
until June 11th,
655
00:29:11,850 --> 00:29:13,181
a hearing which lasted five minutes,
656
00:29:13,284 --> 00:29:14,182
at which Judge Derek Green
657
00:29:14,285 --> 00:29:16,446
said he wasn't in a position
to rule on the translation
658
00:29:16,554 --> 00:29:19,321
and they would adjourn again
until July 30th.
659
00:29:19,424 --> 00:29:22,552
And while they waited for
justice and for you to arrive,
660
00:29:22,660 --> 00:29:25,686
your grandma and grandpa made
a new home and new friends.
661
00:29:25,797 --> 00:29:27,424
They made friends all over St. John's.
662
00:29:27,532 --> 00:29:29,830
People in the legal community,
the medical community.
663
00:29:29,934 --> 00:29:30,901
But here at St. Michael's,
664
00:29:31,002 --> 00:29:34,995
yeah, they got right in there
and got right involved.
665
00:29:35,106 --> 00:29:36,971
It seems like they've always been here.
666
00:29:37,075 --> 00:29:38,770
Basically, they have more
friends in Newfoundland now
667
00:29:38,877 --> 00:29:39,775
than we do.
668
00:29:39,878 --> 00:29:41,743
Well,
it's a very small province.
669
00:29:41,846 --> 00:29:44,178
The land mass is as big as...
670
00:29:44,282 --> 00:29:46,250
Well, maybe not quite as big
as California,
671
00:29:46,351 --> 00:29:47,750
but not far off.
672
00:29:47,852 --> 00:29:51,515
And yet we only have 530,000 population
673
00:29:51,623 --> 00:29:52,954
scattered over that land mass.
674
00:29:53,057 --> 00:29:54,251
You can't go anywhere in St. John's
675
00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:55,587
without running into somebody you know.
676
00:29:55,693 --> 00:29:57,388
I mean, it's the oldest city
in North America.
677
00:29:57,495 --> 00:29:59,588
It's a very safe place, I think.
678
00:29:59,697 --> 00:30:01,631
The big drawback against living here
679
00:30:01,733 --> 00:30:02,757
is getting out of here.
680
00:30:02,867 --> 00:30:06,234
The weather here is terrible.
The weather is awful.
681
00:30:06,337 --> 00:30:08,635
We have 8 months of winter
and 4 months of bad weather.
682
00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:10,708
And the other very consistent
thing that I hear
683
00:30:10,809 --> 00:30:12,299
is that the people are so friendly.
684
00:30:12,410 --> 00:30:13,468
How would you describe them
685
00:30:13,578 --> 00:30:14,738
to someone who had
never met them before?
686
00:30:14,846 --> 00:30:16,711
Oh, do you have an hour?
687
00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:18,976
I was hoping you would ask me
about Kate and David,
688
00:30:19,083 --> 00:30:20,141
who are very...
689
00:30:20,251 --> 00:30:21,843
Young at heart.
690
00:30:21,953 --> 00:30:23,318
Childish.
That's not the right word.
691
00:30:23,421 --> 00:30:25,616
He's an engineer
in the truest sense of the word.
692
00:30:25,723 --> 00:30:27,213
The guy likes Pintos, okay?
693
00:30:27,325 --> 00:30:28,314
Logical.
694
00:30:28,426 --> 00:30:30,860
Does things in steps,
logical steps.
695
00:30:30,962 --> 00:30:34,557
Comparing Andrew as a teenager
and Dave as a teenager,
696
00:30:34,666 --> 00:30:36,361
- they're almost twins.
- He's the older model.
697
00:30:36,467 --> 00:30:38,560
- It was wonderful.
- It was wonderful.
698
00:30:38,670 --> 00:30:41,298
He always calls you "mate,"
his father does."Mate."
699
00:30:41,406 --> 00:30:42,304
"How you doing, mate?"
700
00:30:42,407 --> 00:30:44,841
And Kate calls you "love."
701
00:30:44,943 --> 00:30:46,570
Oh, I thought she was feisty.
702
00:30:46,678 --> 00:30:48,475
Like a little ball of fire.
703
00:30:48,580 --> 00:30:50,445
She's so tiny, and then
big things come out of her.
704
00:30:50,548 --> 00:30:52,072
It's great if she's on your side
705
00:30:52,183 --> 00:30:54,310
because she'll always stand
up for what she believes in
706
00:30:54,419 --> 00:30:55,317
and those that she loves.
707
00:30:55,420 --> 00:30:57,445
They're a rare pair.
708
00:30:58,323 --> 00:31:00,883
They were from the start.
709
00:31:00,992 --> 00:31:05,452
In itself, it's quite a story,
their marriage, you know.
710
00:31:05,563 --> 00:31:07,360
I was going to come here
for the two years,
711
00:31:07,465 --> 00:31:09,057
then I was going on to Australia
for two years,
712
00:31:09,167 --> 00:31:10,464
work my way around the world.
713
00:31:10,568 --> 00:31:11,899
And then I was going back to Devon.
714
00:31:12,003 --> 00:31:13,197
And I wasn't going to get married
715
00:31:13,304 --> 00:31:15,397
because that was not on my list
of things to do at all.
716
00:31:15,506 --> 00:31:16,530
I was in the Navy,
717
00:31:16,641 --> 00:31:18,700
stationed on an aircraft
carrier, the Hornet,
718
00:31:18,810 --> 00:31:20,038
in Long Beach, California.
719
00:31:20,144 --> 00:31:22,908
A guy came into the shop
one day, E.T., electronics shop,
720
00:31:23,014 --> 00:31:24,413
and said he had two English nurses
721
00:31:24,515 --> 00:31:25,413
who wanted to go to Disneyland.
722
00:31:25,516 --> 00:31:26,915
We were too cheap to pay the fare.
723
00:31:27,018 --> 00:31:28,918
Yeah, two cheap English nurses.
724
00:31:29,020 --> 00:31:30,851
And I took the little one
725
00:31:30,955 --> 00:31:33,480
and left him with the tall one.
726
00:31:33,591 --> 00:31:36,992
And, uh, they didn't work out
so well, but we did.
727
00:31:37,095 --> 00:31:39,586
We went out 13 times
in the first two weeks.
728
00:31:39,697 --> 00:31:41,358
And he could quote Shakespeare,
by the way,
729
00:31:41,466 --> 00:31:43,127
so I knew it was all right.
730
00:31:43,234 --> 00:31:44,861
Five months later, I'm married.
731
00:31:44,969 --> 00:31:47,904
So we moved down to San Diego
and started working on a baby.
732
00:31:48,006 --> 00:31:49,530
But nothing happened.
733
00:31:49,641 --> 00:31:53,202
We tried to get pregnant
for a year, two years,
734
00:31:53,311 --> 00:31:54,209
with no result.
735
00:31:54,312 --> 00:31:57,770
At some point, they mentioned
that they might adopt.
736
00:31:57,882 --> 00:32:02,148
And then, I mean,
it was like a miracle.
737
00:32:02,253 --> 00:32:05,484
Coming to St. Louis and sleeping
in my mother's bedroom
738
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:07,251
seemed to make people pregnant.
739
00:32:07,358 --> 00:32:08,848
And then, of course,
Andrew didn't come.
740
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,325
He was two weeks late.
741
00:32:10,428 --> 00:32:12,020
Things people should know about Andrew.
742
00:32:12,130 --> 00:32:13,290
He was never late.
743
00:32:38,656 --> 00:32:40,681
Hi. It's Heather.
It's 9:00 Thursday.
744
00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:44,159
Shirley went into labor
around 3:00 in the afternoon,
745
00:32:44,262 --> 00:32:45,752
Newfoundland time.
746
00:32:45,863 --> 00:32:50,197
On July 18, 2002, you were born.
747
00:32:50,301 --> 00:32:53,395
Shirley named you
Zachary Andrew Turner.
748
00:32:53,504 --> 00:32:56,473
You grandma and grandpa came
to the hospital to see you,
749
00:32:56,574 --> 00:32:58,565
but Shirley wouldn't let them
in the door.
750
00:32:58,676 --> 00:33:02,271
The stood five feet away from
you on the other side of a wall.
751
00:33:03,314 --> 00:33:05,544
They left a gift for you.
752
00:33:10,955 --> 00:33:13,446
Well,
your dad was an amazing person.
753
00:33:13,558 --> 00:33:16,322
You're gonna get such a broad range
754
00:33:16,427 --> 00:33:18,861
of different perspectives of this guy.
755
00:33:18,963 --> 00:33:20,931
You're gonna know
what his character was like
756
00:33:21,032 --> 00:33:22,932
and you're gonna know
what fun he was to be with
757
00:33:23,034 --> 00:33:26,367
and you're gonna know
that you can be proud of him.
758
00:33:26,471 --> 00:33:27,870
I flew to England
to collect the memories
759
00:33:27,972 --> 00:33:29,701
of your grandma's side
of the family for you
760
00:33:29,807 --> 00:33:32,105
and arrived just in time
for a very special occasion.
761
00:33:32,210 --> 00:33:34,371
Well, we're on the eve
of my wedding, for a start.
762
00:33:34,479 --> 00:33:35,343
It's been a bit hectic.
763
00:33:35,446 --> 00:33:36,640
We're just trying to fit this interview
764
00:33:36,748 --> 00:33:38,409
in between all of the preparations.
765
00:33:38,516 --> 00:33:40,746
Your dad crossed the Atlantic to
come here almost every summer,
766
00:33:40,852 --> 00:33:43,013
but instead of heading to the
tourist attractions in London
767
00:33:43,121 --> 00:33:44,019
like everyone else,
768
00:33:44,122 --> 00:33:45,749
he'd head to the outskirts
769
00:33:45,857 --> 00:33:47,518
to spend time
with his grandparents, aunts,
770
00:33:47,625 --> 00:33:48,592
uncles, and cousins.
771
00:33:48,693 --> 00:33:51,161
He was a king to me, man.
Seriously, man.
772
00:33:51,262 --> 00:33:52,456
And, in particular,
with his cousin John.
773
00:33:52,563 --> 00:33:55,123
The main thing, I guess,
about being an only child
774
00:33:55,233 --> 00:33:57,997
is that I get to choose my brothers.
775
00:33:58,102 --> 00:34:00,570
Others of you don't.
Sorry.
776
00:34:00,671 --> 00:34:02,229
John, me brother, and Andrew
777
00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:03,773
were born within a month of each other.
778
00:34:03,875 --> 00:34:05,433
In fact, I think
it was about 30 seconds
779
00:34:05,543 --> 00:34:07,773
of the normal child,
"Who are you? Who are you?"
780
00:34:07,879 --> 00:34:10,006
And then suddenly, snap,
that was it.
781
00:34:10,114 --> 00:34:12,674
We often said at least
they would have each other
782
00:34:12,784 --> 00:34:13,978
through life.
783
00:34:14,085 --> 00:34:15,484
John would always have Andrew,
784
00:34:15,586 --> 00:34:16,985
and Andrew would always have John.
785
00:34:17,088 --> 00:34:20,057
For me, kind of blur
into this haze of me and Andrew
786
00:34:20,158 --> 00:34:23,093
running around castles,
country homes, gardens.
787
00:34:23,194 --> 00:34:25,992
I mean, these fantastic
historical places.
788
00:34:26,097 --> 00:34:28,463
And, to us, they were places
to play hide and seek,
789
00:34:28,566 --> 00:34:30,693
buy water pistols,
shoot each other,
790
00:34:30,802 --> 00:34:32,064
and then get told off and thrown out.
791
00:34:32,170 --> 00:34:33,797
The interesting thing always was,
792
00:34:33,905 --> 00:34:35,566
just like the cultural differences
793
00:34:35,673 --> 00:34:37,197
between someone coming from the U.S.
794
00:34:37,308 --> 00:34:39,105
and someone in the U.K.
795
00:34:39,210 --> 00:34:40,108
That used to really bug me,
796
00:34:40,211 --> 00:34:42,179
the fact that I knew he was
going to get "Star Wars"
797
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,215
kind of 6 months before me,
that was a killer.
798
00:34:45,316 --> 00:34:46,340
'Cause, you know, it'd be like,
799
00:34:46,451 --> 00:34:48,749
"Don't you dare tell me anything
about this film!"
800
00:34:48,853 --> 00:34:51,378
He was almost kind of, as well,
my kind of chaperone
801
00:34:51,489 --> 00:34:53,980
into discovering the U.S.,
really.
802
00:34:54,092 --> 00:34:55,992
You hear people discriminate
against a whole country
803
00:34:56,094 --> 00:34:57,459
just in one fell swoop.
804
00:34:57,562 --> 00:34:59,826
But I was fortunate enough to
know very differently to that.
805
00:34:59,931 --> 00:35:02,456
I really cherish that,
806
00:35:02,567 --> 00:35:08,130
because it is my brother
that got married here tonight.
807
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:09,297
Bizarrely enough,
one of the things
808
00:35:09,407 --> 00:35:11,875
is I always wanted Andrew
to be my best man at my wedding.
809
00:35:11,976 --> 00:35:14,206
As I would soon find out,
he was in good company.
810
00:35:14,312 --> 00:35:16,075
I had always wanted him
to be my best man.
811
00:35:16,180 --> 00:35:17,306
I had asked him to be my best man.
812
00:35:17,415 --> 00:35:19,440
It just made sense
to have him as best man.
813
00:35:19,550 --> 00:35:21,142
I can only assume
that you would have asked him
814
00:35:21,252 --> 00:35:22,310
to be your best man.
815
00:35:22,420 --> 00:35:23,546
Everybody grab your glass.
816
00:35:23,654 --> 00:35:24,951
We're gonna turn it over
to the best man, Andrew.
817
00:35:25,056 --> 00:35:27,354
Best man's a little bit of a
poor title for these things.
818
00:35:27,458 --> 00:35:28,823
I mean,
the best man's really the groom.
819
00:35:28,926 --> 00:35:31,520
I've got to try and sum up
20-some-odd years
820
00:35:31,629 --> 00:35:34,792
in, like, 2 minutes or so,
821
00:35:34,899 --> 00:35:36,264
'cause, you know,
then people will start looking
822
00:35:36,367 --> 00:35:38,665
at their champagne and thinking,
"Bagby, shut up or die."
823
00:35:48,613 --> 00:35:49,944
I miss him.
824
00:35:50,047 --> 00:35:51,776
A lot.
825
00:35:57,455 --> 00:36:03,758
That I wish he was here
at the wedding with us.
826
00:36:03,861 --> 00:36:07,160
That I'd just like to sit him down
827
00:36:07,265 --> 00:36:09,995
and talk to him again.
828
00:36:10,101 --> 00:36:13,127
Just to have him here with us.
829
00:36:13,237 --> 00:36:15,933
I really believe
your dad was there that day.
830
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,031
And if we could have heard him
give his toast,
831
00:36:18,142 --> 00:36:19,871
it might have sounded
something like this...
832
00:36:19,977 --> 00:36:21,842
Why am I standing up here?
833
00:36:21,946 --> 00:36:24,005
I guess part of it I've already said.
834
00:36:24,115 --> 00:36:27,312
We're brothers and I love you
835
00:36:27,418 --> 00:36:30,512
and I know you love me and...
836
00:36:32,056 --> 00:36:35,184
Yeah. I kind of need to move on
from that.
837
00:36:35,293 --> 00:36:37,454
'Cause, like I said,
I'm a Bagby male.
838
00:36:37,562 --> 00:36:40,429
We don't gush very much.
839
00:36:44,735 --> 00:36:45,633
It made me realize
840
00:36:45,736 --> 00:36:48,864
that it doesn't matter
where you come from.
841
00:36:48,973 --> 00:36:52,568
You can meet someone
and, literally, within minutes,
842
00:36:52,677 --> 00:36:56,545
you can be closer than someone
you've known for 20 years.
843
00:36:56,647 --> 00:36:58,274
And someone who'll maybe
just end up being a friend
844
00:36:58,382 --> 00:36:59,440
for the rest of your life.
845
00:36:59,550 --> 00:37:00,574
And last question.
846
00:37:00,685 --> 00:37:03,153
Is there anything
you'd like to say to Zachary?
847
00:37:03,254 --> 00:37:05,017
Zachary.
848
00:37:05,122 --> 00:37:06,714
Right.
849
00:37:08,025 --> 00:37:11,517
Yeah, I hope to see you soon,
Zachary, anyway.
850
00:37:14,398 --> 00:37:16,889
Jackie had been down earlier
in the day to file the papers
851
00:37:17,001 --> 00:37:19,094
that we wanted custody of the baby.
852
00:37:19,203 --> 00:37:20,830
We finally went to court.
853
00:37:20,938 --> 00:37:23,133
- You mean family court.
- Yes, family court.
854
00:37:23,241 --> 00:37:25,675
You know,
they negotiated with her.
855
00:37:25,776 --> 00:37:27,004
I think you know that already,
856
00:37:27,111 --> 00:37:29,807
and what access they got
with Shirley, they negotiated.
857
00:37:29,914 --> 00:37:32,314
We're coming up with agreements
with this accused murderer.
858
00:37:32,416 --> 00:37:33,747
And then Shirley Turner came up
with something else
859
00:37:33,851 --> 00:37:35,785
just at the moment
when it was all looking good.
860
00:37:35,886 --> 00:37:38,218
She always did that
so that it was extended.
861
00:37:38,322 --> 00:37:40,119
It was like, "I don't have to
pay for my lawyer.
862
00:37:40,224 --> 00:37:41,282
You have to pay for yours,
863
00:37:41,392 --> 00:37:43,155
so the longer I can make it,
it's better.
864
00:37:43,261 --> 00:37:44,421
You'll run out of money."
865
00:37:44,528 --> 00:37:46,587
But then she finally agreed
to give us one hour a week
866
00:37:46,697 --> 00:37:49,461
in Unified Family Court.
867
00:37:49,567 --> 00:37:51,330
Shirley delayed your grandma
and grandpa from meeting you
868
00:37:51,435 --> 00:37:52,333
for almost a month
869
00:37:52,436 --> 00:37:54,904
and had them treated like common
criminals in order to see you.
870
00:37:55,006 --> 00:37:56,735
She required that during
their one-hour visit,
871
00:37:56,841 --> 00:37:59,002
they be fully searched
and monitored by a supervisor
872
00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:00,907
while she waited in the next room.
873
00:38:01,012 --> 00:38:02,707
When did you first meet him?
874
00:38:02,813 --> 00:38:03,711
Meet him personally or meet him
875
00:38:03,814 --> 00:38:06,908
by seeing the light
in Kate and David's eyes?
876
00:38:07,018 --> 00:38:08,679
I mean, we were searched
and everything.
877
00:38:08,786 --> 00:38:10,151
I couldn't wait for them to search.
878
00:38:10,254 --> 00:38:11,881
I would've zipped off
all my clothes and been...
879
00:38:11,989 --> 00:38:13,718
as long as I could get
into that baby, you know?
880
00:38:13,824 --> 00:38:14,882
We went around the corner,
881
00:38:14,992 --> 00:38:17,654
and there was this overpowering thing.
882
00:38:35,746 --> 00:38:39,238
We did not do complete
tug-of-war, though.
883
00:38:39,350 --> 00:38:41,682
I just gave him to Kate.
884
00:38:41,786 --> 00:38:43,583
No, no, no.
885
00:38:43,688 --> 00:38:44,916
- We shared.
- We took turns.
886
00:38:45,022 --> 00:38:46,250
The next visit, he was really...
887
00:38:46,357 --> 00:38:49,451
The next time, he was dirty,
so I changed his diaper.
888
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,687
And that's when he opened his
eyes to just kind of look at me,
889
00:38:51,796 --> 00:38:53,787
and that's when I said to David,
"Oh, my God, he's Andrew."
890
00:38:53,898 --> 00:38:55,763
I had seen lots of pictures
of Andrew at this point
891
00:38:55,866 --> 00:38:57,697
and even pictures of him as a child
892
00:38:57,802 --> 00:39:01,169
and I thought, "Holy crow,"
you know."There's no doubt."
893
00:39:01,272 --> 00:39:02,432
We wanted more time.
894
00:39:02,540 --> 00:39:03,939
So we went back.
895
00:39:04,041 --> 00:39:08,171
And this time, she accused us
of keeping him beyond the time
896
00:39:08,279 --> 00:39:10,509
so that he was distraught
when he went back to her.
897
00:39:10,614 --> 00:39:13,378
She'd try a lot of manipulations
without thinking them through.
898
00:39:13,484 --> 00:39:16,647
And this one was a no-brainer,
really.
899
00:39:16,754 --> 00:39:21,691
If she accuses us of doing
anything wrong to the baby,
900
00:39:21,792 --> 00:39:26,126
she's indirectly accusing
Maureen of being a slouch.
901
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:27,697
- The supervisor?
- The supervisor.
902
00:39:27,798 --> 00:39:29,993
You know,
Maureen's not gonna take that.
903
00:39:30,101 --> 00:39:32,035
So she just didn't think it through.
904
00:39:32,136 --> 00:39:33,660
While your grandparents
and Jackie battled Shirley
905
00:39:33,771 --> 00:39:35,363
for more time with you in family court,
906
00:39:35,473 --> 00:39:37,873
the law in the extradition
proceedings was still slow.
907
00:39:37,975 --> 00:39:38,775
September 19th.
908
00:39:38,776 --> 00:39:40,300
The extradition hearing finally began,
909
00:39:40,411 --> 00:39:42,003
and evidence was finally presented.
910
00:39:42,113 --> 00:39:44,081
But just as everything
was moving along smoothly,
911
00:39:44,181 --> 00:39:46,979
Shirley's lawyer Randy Piercey
threw a wrench into the works.
912
00:39:47,084 --> 00:39:48,984
Because the "authority to
proceed" with these hearings
913
00:39:49,086 --> 00:39:51,452
provided by the minister
of justice early that year
914
00:39:51,555 --> 00:39:53,614
had failed to specify
subsections (i) or (ii)
915
00:39:53,724 --> 00:39:55,589
of Section 229(a) of the criminal code,
916
00:39:55,693 --> 00:39:57,251
the authority to proceed was invalid,
917
00:39:57,361 --> 00:39:59,090
the 90-day limit to amend it
was now past,
918
00:39:59,196 --> 00:40:01,357
and therefore all extradition
proceedings against Shirley
919
00:40:01,465 --> 00:40:04,298
should be dropped so she could
get on with her life.
920
00:40:04,402 --> 00:40:07,098
Judge Derek Green now
had to rule on whether or not
921
00:40:07,204 --> 00:40:08,364
to throw out the entire case,
922
00:40:08,472 --> 00:40:10,463
which would take place on October 18th,
923
00:40:10,574 --> 00:40:13,168
which was delayed four days
until October 22nd,
924
00:40:13,277 --> 00:40:14,972
where Judge Green told Piercey
to forget about it
925
00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:16,876
and said they would continue
with the extradition hearing
926
00:40:16,981 --> 00:40:18,175
on November 14th.
927
00:40:19,884 --> 00:40:21,408
Meanwhile,
I came back to California,
928
00:40:21,519 --> 00:40:23,612
pointed the van east
toward Newfoundland
929
00:40:23,721 --> 00:40:25,746
and set off across the continent
on my way to see you,
930
00:40:25,856 --> 00:40:27,653
stopping all over the map
to collect the memories
931
00:40:27,758 --> 00:40:30,158
of a whole spectrum of people
your dad touched.
932
00:40:32,830 --> 00:40:34,388
But it was when I pulled into St. Louis
933
00:40:34,498 --> 00:40:35,624
to see your grandpa's family...
934
00:40:35,733 --> 00:40:37,963
- Are you the oldest?
- Yeah, I'm the oldest.
935
00:40:38,068 --> 00:40:39,695
Bob was the middle one.
936
00:40:39,804 --> 00:40:40,793
He's one year younger than me.
937
00:40:40,905 --> 00:40:42,532
...that I discovered
a very special place
938
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,870
where your dad had left his heart.
939
00:40:44,975 --> 00:40:47,273
Andrew and Bob were very, very close.
940
00:40:47,378 --> 00:40:49,243
To see them around each other,
you'd think that Andrew
941
00:40:49,346 --> 00:40:52,008
had grown up his entire life
around Bob.
942
00:40:52,116 --> 00:40:55,381
You wouldn't know that it was
a once-a-summer relationship.
943
00:40:55,486 --> 00:40:57,954
Bob used to take Andrew out
and let him drive the truck
944
00:40:58,055 --> 00:40:59,579
before he was old enough.
945
00:40:59,690 --> 00:41:01,123
And they'd play pool.
946
00:41:01,225 --> 00:41:02,624
And my dad was very good at pool,
947
00:41:02,726 --> 00:41:05,593
but then Mack came along who was
even probably better at pool.
948
00:41:05,696 --> 00:41:09,291
I would say he was excellent,
but he wasn't as good as me.
949
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,994
He probably still owes me
around $30,000.
950
00:41:12,102 --> 00:41:17,233
Okay, Mack is my daughter
Rhonda's first husband.
951
00:41:17,341 --> 00:41:18,831
I don't know.
They just clicked.
952
00:41:18,943 --> 00:41:21,605
I mean, they just clicked.
I can't explain why or anything.
953
00:41:21,712 --> 00:41:23,270
Automatically my little brother.
954
00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:27,043
That's the way I looked at it,
you know.
955
00:41:27,918 --> 00:41:31,479
We just become friends.
956
00:41:32,356 --> 00:41:35,621
This is our clubhouse
that me and Bob had.
957
00:41:35,726 --> 00:41:39,890
And he used to love to come down here.
958
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:41,430
As soon as he'd hit town,
959
00:41:41,532 --> 00:41:43,432
we'd come down here
and just stay for days.
960
00:41:43,534 --> 00:41:44,432
Dave and Katie and them would come out.
961
00:41:44,535 --> 00:41:46,526
Always have a big barbecue or fish fry.
962
00:41:46,637 --> 00:41:47,865
Get the johnboat and head up the river.
963
00:41:47,972 --> 00:41:48,870
He was the captain.
964
00:41:48,973 --> 00:41:50,964
Me and Bob got to the point
where we didn't even think about
965
00:41:51,075 --> 00:41:52,702
who was gonna drive the boat
if Andrew was here.
966
00:41:52,810 --> 00:41:56,211
At nighttime, they'd stack up
logs and build a bonfire.
967
00:41:56,313 --> 00:41:57,610
And we'd buy fireworks,
you know.
968
00:41:57,715 --> 00:41:59,444
It'd be beautiful 'cause
it was real dark out there.
969
00:41:59,550 --> 00:42:01,017
"That's really stupid, me
checking to see if you're hurt
970
00:42:01,118 --> 00:42:02,210
when you're gonna be a damn doctor.
971
00:42:02,319 --> 00:42:03,217
You ought to know yourself."
972
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,517
I said, "If you're smart,
you'll be a gynecologist."
973
00:42:06,624 --> 00:42:10,583
Doctor came into the room
and said he had bad news.
974
00:42:10,694 --> 00:42:14,562
He said that the cancer had spread
975
00:42:14,665 --> 00:42:17,463
to his bones and to his liver.
976
00:42:17,568 --> 00:42:19,502
Bob looked at him and said,
"I want the truth."
977
00:42:19,603 --> 00:42:21,468
He said, "3 to 6 months."
978
00:42:21,572 --> 00:42:24,769
I mean, I can come down here
anytime I want.
979
00:42:24,875 --> 00:42:27,343
I just don't have time anymore,
really.
980
00:42:27,444 --> 00:42:29,674
I lost...
981
00:42:33,217 --> 00:42:35,185
I lost total interest
in a lot of things
982
00:42:35,286 --> 00:42:37,880
when Bob died, for some reason.
983
00:42:37,988 --> 00:42:41,219
I know it was hard on Andrew,
too.
984
00:42:42,826 --> 00:42:45,920
'Cause he wrote me
a little note, a letter.
985
00:42:46,030 --> 00:42:50,091
Bob was very proud of him.
986
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,794
Imagine him and Andrew
are laughing at me right now.
987
00:42:57,374 --> 00:42:59,672
Both assholes.
988
00:43:04,081 --> 00:43:05,776
Are you sad now?
989
00:43:05,883 --> 00:43:08,443
Yeah, I'm still sad.
990
00:43:10,654 --> 00:43:12,519
I'll be okay.
991
00:43:12,623 --> 00:43:14,113
Come here.
Come give me a hug.
992
00:43:14,224 --> 00:43:16,818
That'd make me feel better.
993
00:43:16,927 --> 00:43:18,861
He was great.
994
00:43:18,963 --> 00:43:20,760
If there's anything I can do,
I'll be there.
995
00:43:20,864 --> 00:43:21,762
Well, we hope to see him.
996
00:43:21,865 --> 00:43:24,231
And we can show him pictures
and everything.
997
00:43:24,335 --> 00:43:25,734
We'd love to be a part of that as well.
998
00:43:25,836 --> 00:43:27,394
To share our lives with him.
999
00:43:27,504 --> 00:43:30,371
Oh, how I wish I could be there
and pinch those little cheeks.
1000
00:43:31,875 --> 00:43:35,367
Zachary, you'll never know
what you missed.
1001
00:43:48,826 --> 00:43:50,623
On November 14, 2002,
1002
00:43:50,728 --> 00:43:53,196
Judge Derek Green declared
that a properly instructed jury
1003
00:43:53,297 --> 00:43:54,594
could likely find Shirley guilty
1004
00:43:54,698 --> 00:43:56,131
and ordered her incarcerated
1005
00:43:56,233 --> 00:43:57,825
in the Clarenville
Correctional Centre for Women,
1006
00:43:57,935 --> 00:43:59,664
awaiting a decision
from the minister of justice
1007
00:43:59,770 --> 00:44:01,499
to surrender her to the United States.
1008
00:44:01,605 --> 00:44:04,165
She always seemed to know
exactly when to turn nice.
1009
00:44:04,274 --> 00:44:06,208
And it was a pretty obvious time
to turn nice.
1010
00:44:06,310 --> 00:44:07,368
Suddenly, Shirley turned around
1011
00:44:07,478 --> 00:44:08,968
and gave your grandma
and grandpa custody of you
1012
00:44:09,079 --> 00:44:10,341
for as long as she was in prison.
1013
00:44:10,447 --> 00:44:12,438
We could stop in and see him
whenever we liked.
1014
00:44:12,549 --> 00:44:13,481
And we did.
1015
00:44:13,584 --> 00:44:16,018
They were so excited,
it was Christmas Eve,
1016
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,486
and, you know, it had started
to snow a little bit.
1017
00:44:18,589 --> 00:44:20,022
The doorbell was ringing,
1018
00:44:20,124 --> 00:44:21,489
and someone showed up with a present.
1019
00:44:21,592 --> 00:44:23,958
And then Alan Goodridge,
he was a professor,
1020
00:44:24,061 --> 00:44:27,326
one of Andrew's professors,
he showed up with something.
1021
00:44:27,431 --> 00:44:28,329
I don't know what.
1022
00:44:28,432 --> 00:44:29,990
And then, you know,
finally, I said, "What?
1023
00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:33,331
Have you got the Magi
showing up at your house?"
1024
00:44:33,437 --> 00:44:35,632
We went to church with them
on Christmas Eve.
1025
00:44:35,739 --> 00:44:38,572
If Zachary got fussy, you know,
they would pick him up
1026
00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:39,608
and they would feed him
1027
00:44:39,710 --> 00:44:41,337
and they'd walk
to the back of the church.
1028
00:44:41,445 --> 00:44:43,606
If there's people in this church
that don't know the five of us,
1029
00:44:43,714 --> 00:44:45,614
it looks like these are
the grandparents,
1030
00:44:45,716 --> 00:44:47,650
we're the parents,
and Zachary is our child.
1031
00:44:47,751 --> 00:44:50,549
I said,
"We look like terrible parents!"
1032
00:44:50,654 --> 00:44:52,713
He was besotted with them,
the child was.
1033
00:44:52,823 --> 00:44:54,984
You know,
no one could comfort him.
1034
00:44:55,092 --> 00:44:55,990
Only Kate.
1035
00:44:56,093 --> 00:44:57,526
They were so happy.
1036
00:44:57,628 --> 00:44:59,289
But it wasn't all sweetness and light.
1037
00:44:59,396 --> 00:45:00,795
You came with strings attached.
1038
00:45:00,898 --> 00:45:02,422
The reason we reached consent
1039
00:45:02,533 --> 00:45:03,966
and the reason she reached consent
1040
00:45:04,068 --> 00:45:08,198
is if you reach consent,
you have some control.
1041
00:45:08,305 --> 00:45:13,004
We'd accept a phone call a day
from jail to talk about Zachary.
1042
00:45:13,110 --> 00:45:15,340
Which the foster home
would have done anyway, see?
1043
00:45:15,446 --> 00:45:17,175
This is Aliant Telecom.
1044
00:45:17,281 --> 00:45:20,114
- You have a collect call from...
- Shirley.
1045
00:45:20,217 --> 00:45:23,277
You may press 1 now
to accept the charges.
1046
00:45:23,387 --> 00:45:26,185
- Hello?
- Hi.
1047
00:46:03,427 --> 00:46:04,621
Or "Mommy with baby."
1048
00:46:46,003 --> 00:46:49,063
We'd bring him up to the prison
for a weekly visit.
1049
00:46:54,311 --> 00:46:56,438
That was astounding.
1050
00:47:00,918 --> 00:47:02,180
Imposition.
1051
00:47:02,286 --> 00:47:03,878
Each week,
they would drive two hours
1052
00:47:03,987 --> 00:47:05,614
to the jail where Shirley was
1053
00:47:05,722 --> 00:47:08,122
so that she would be able
to see her son
1054
00:47:08,225 --> 00:47:09,453
and to follow the visitation rights,
1055
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,154
because just as Kate and David
wanted visitation rights,
1056
00:47:12,262 --> 00:47:15,595
they had to honor
Shirley's visitation rights.
1057
00:47:15,699 --> 00:47:16,597
And in the winter.
1058
00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:18,327
But the weather, needless
to say, in Newfoundland.
1059
00:47:18,435 --> 00:47:19,732
The weather here is terrible.
1060
00:47:19,837 --> 00:47:21,964
To make that journey was awful.
1061
00:47:22,072 --> 00:47:24,973
Only Kate and David would have
done it, really, I think.
1062
00:47:26,510 --> 00:47:28,102
Nobody else would have done it.
1063
00:47:28,212 --> 00:47:30,976
The one guard, the one day,
said to Kate and David,
1064
00:47:31,081 --> 00:47:32,776
speaking to Zachary,
1065
00:47:32,883 --> 00:47:35,784
"Zachary, I hope some day
you will realize
1066
00:47:35,886 --> 00:47:39,344
how brave and courageous
your grandparents are."
1067
00:47:39,456 --> 00:47:42,118
Like, I think if I could be
a quarter of the grandma
1068
00:47:42,226 --> 00:47:44,387
that Kate is,
I'd be such a success.
1069
00:47:44,494 --> 00:47:47,190
You know,
seeing them with Zachary.
1070
00:47:47,297 --> 00:47:49,231
Just to see the looks
on their faces, Kurt,
1071
00:47:49,333 --> 00:47:51,301
when they'd have him, you know.
1072
00:47:51,401 --> 00:47:55,132
You know, to see them so happy.
1073
00:47:58,575 --> 00:48:03,308
And then, you know,
that ended, didn't it?
1074
00:48:05,782 --> 00:48:07,613
Now crossing the east coast
of the U.S.,
1075
00:48:07,718 --> 00:48:09,185
I was almost to you.
1076
00:48:09,286 --> 00:48:11,345
I pulled off the main road
for one last stop,
1077
00:48:11,455 --> 00:48:12,649
a small-town utopia
1078
00:48:12,756 --> 00:48:15,247
where your dad had spent the
last four months of his life.
1079
00:48:15,359 --> 00:48:17,156
It was here that I would find
the only people
1080
00:48:17,261 --> 00:48:18,956
who knew what he was like as a doctor,
1081
00:48:19,062 --> 00:48:20,256
just days before they would graduate
1082
00:48:20,364 --> 00:48:22,332
and scatter to the winds.
1083
00:48:22,432 --> 00:48:24,900
Latrobe is famous for Mr. Rogers.
1084
00:48:25,002 --> 00:48:26,970
Of children's TV fame.
1085
00:48:27,070 --> 00:48:28,662
Rolling Rock beer.
1086
00:48:28,772 --> 00:48:30,330
It's the birthplace
of professional football,
1087
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,635
though some would argue that.
1088
00:48:32,743 --> 00:48:33,767
At Strickler's Pharmacy,
1089
00:48:33,877 --> 00:48:36,505
I'm told that the banana split
was invented here in Latrobe.
1090
00:48:36,613 --> 00:48:37,413
And Arnold Palmer.
1091
00:48:37,481 --> 00:48:41,212
Mr. Palmer's a very important
figure in this community.
1092
00:48:41,318 --> 00:48:42,683
This is a community where people
don't even lock their doors.
1093
00:48:42,786 --> 00:48:44,014
Your dad's door
1094
00:48:44,121 --> 00:48:45,782
was directly across the street
from the hospital,
1095
00:48:45,889 --> 00:48:47,413
giving him a 30-second commute to work.
1096
00:48:47,524 --> 00:48:48,923
And I said,
"Can I call you 'Andy'?"
1097
00:48:49,026 --> 00:48:50,755
And he goes, "Actually,
I don't like Andy."
1098
00:48:50,861 --> 00:48:52,123
He said,
"You can call me 'Andrew,'
1099
00:48:52,229 --> 00:48:53,924
you can call me 'Bagby,'
you can call me 'Bags'."
1100
00:48:54,031 --> 00:48:55,123
I never did.
1101
00:48:55,232 --> 00:48:56,256
Ten minutes after I arrived,
1102
00:48:56,366 --> 00:48:58,596
Dr. Bill DiCuccio picked me up
to show me around town.
1103
00:49:01,371 --> 00:49:03,134
His class, it was Bill DiCuccio.
1104
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:05,037
And after hanging with Bill
for a short while,
1105
00:49:05,142 --> 00:49:06,871
I completely understood why.
1106
00:49:06,977 --> 00:49:08,569
This is yours to take with you
in your travels
1107
00:49:08,679 --> 00:49:09,577
to remember
the Chief Resident's office.
1108
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,045
They were like Mutt and Jeff.
1109
00:49:11,148 --> 00:49:12,706
They were Tweedledee and Tweedledum.
1110
00:49:12,816 --> 00:49:16,377
Bill was just devastated, as
we all were, but especially so.
1111
00:49:16,486 --> 00:49:17,953
I think Bill had spent more time
with him.
1112
00:49:18,055 --> 00:49:20,580
And I know there was
a third-year resident, Clark,
1113
00:49:20,691 --> 00:49:22,625
who was quite close with him.
1114
00:49:22,726 --> 00:49:25,661
He was this surgical resident
from Syracuse.
1115
00:49:25,762 --> 00:49:27,593
Being a former surgical intern,
that's a big deal.
1116
00:49:27,698 --> 00:49:28,596
They're all about cutting,
1117
00:49:28,699 --> 00:49:30,633
and what we do
is a little bit different.
1118
00:49:30,734 --> 00:49:32,361
It's more about people.
1119
00:49:32,469 --> 00:49:33,936
I would say to him,
"Now, you go out there
1120
00:49:34,037 --> 00:49:36,562
and you listen to the heart
and you talk to those people
1121
00:49:36,673 --> 00:49:37,662
because, you know, people talk.
1122
00:49:37,774 --> 00:49:39,401
They're not just unconscious
all the time."
1123
00:49:39,509 --> 00:49:41,807
Your dad also had an office
visit every Monday afternoon
1124
00:49:41,912 --> 00:49:43,470
at the last place
he was ever seen alive,
1125
00:49:43,580 --> 00:49:46,344
a clinic in the small town
of Saltsburg,
1126
00:49:46,450 --> 00:49:48,042
a beautiful 30-minute drive away
through the country,
1127
00:49:48,151 --> 00:49:50,915
past a lovely spot
called Keystone State Park.
1128
00:49:51,021 --> 00:49:53,683
He was already,
just within a couple of months,
1129
00:49:53,790 --> 00:49:57,157
already getting patients to call
and specifically ask for him.
1130
00:49:57,260 --> 00:49:58,693
Hi. I'm Dr. Bagby.
1131
00:49:58,795 --> 00:50:01,025
People trusted him
when he walked into a room.
1132
00:50:01,131 --> 00:50:02,689
'Cause medicine's
a little like being a detective.
1133
00:50:02,799 --> 00:50:05,495
Has anyone else in your family
experienced this?
1134
00:50:05,602 --> 00:50:07,229
When you think of people
who have passed,
1135
00:50:07,337 --> 00:50:10,238
you can't help but paint
a rosy glow around them.
1136
00:50:10,340 --> 00:50:11,671
More than half of it
1137
00:50:11,775 --> 00:50:13,970
is being able to get a story
out of somebody.
1138
00:50:14,077 --> 00:50:16,045
It's not what's happening in this case.
1139
00:50:16,146 --> 00:50:17,135
I'll always be grateful to him
1140
00:50:17,247 --> 00:50:18,544
because he diagnosed
my nephew's cancer.
1141
00:50:18,648 --> 00:50:19,580
He diagnosed it early enough
1142
00:50:19,683 --> 00:50:21,514
that he was able to get
complete treatment.
1143
00:50:21,618 --> 00:50:23,916
He was really pretty outstanding
at this stuff.
1144
00:50:24,021 --> 00:50:25,420
He was told he may never have children.
1145
00:50:25,522 --> 00:50:26,955
He just has a newborn baby.
1146
00:50:27,057 --> 00:50:28,046
He always told me
1147
00:50:28,158 --> 00:50:31,753
that he wanted to practice
in a town the size of Latrobe
1148
00:50:31,862 --> 00:50:34,057
and be like the doc of the town.
1149
00:50:34,164 --> 00:50:35,825
Know everybody,
know everybody's family.
1150
00:50:35,932 --> 00:50:38,230
And we really thought
he'd found heaven.
1151
00:50:39,803 --> 00:50:41,964
But we packed our bags,
went to bed,
1152
00:50:42,072 --> 00:50:43,972
'cause we knew we were leaving
the next morning.
1153
00:50:44,074 --> 00:50:48,443
And we stayed in the upstairs
spare bedroom of Andrew's house.
1154
00:50:48,545 --> 00:50:50,979
The next morning,
we saw him off at 6:30.
1155
00:50:51,081 --> 00:50:52,446
And as I say,
that's when I noticed
1156
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:54,312
he was blinking for the first time.
1157
00:50:54,418 --> 00:50:56,443
And he did that
when he was a little boy
1158
00:50:56,553 --> 00:50:59,113
when he was nervous
or worried about something.
1159
00:50:59,222 --> 00:51:01,554
Just blink.
Blink, blink.
1160
00:51:01,658 --> 00:51:04,786
And I wanted to say to him,
"Oh, Andrew, what's the matter?"
1161
00:51:04,895 --> 00:51:05,987
He stood up.
1162
00:51:06,096 --> 00:51:08,291
And I remember he looked at us
such a long time.
1163
00:51:08,398 --> 00:51:11,299
But he came over and
he kissed me and kissed his dad.
1164
00:51:11,401 --> 00:51:13,028
And then he got halfway into that room
1165
00:51:13,136 --> 00:51:14,262
and he came back and kissed us again,
1166
00:51:14,371 --> 00:51:16,134
and we went with him and he
kissed us again at the door.
1167
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,606
And then he got
across the hospital there,
1168
00:51:19,709 --> 00:51:21,506
down that alley and just went...
1169
00:51:25,582 --> 00:51:27,550
And he was gone.
1170
00:51:27,651 --> 00:51:33,317
That was the last time
until we saw him dead.
1171
00:51:33,423 --> 00:51:36,290
And I can remember Andrew saying,
1172
00:51:36,393 --> 00:51:39,419
"If I die tomorrow,
1173
00:51:39,529 --> 00:51:44,023
all I want you to do is sit
and toast a beer to me."
1174
00:51:44,134 --> 00:51:45,226
Do you remember that?
1175
00:51:45,335 --> 00:51:47,599
When his parents had finished
cleaning out his apartment,
1176
00:51:47,704 --> 00:51:50,298
they gave me his last beer.
1177
00:51:50,407 --> 00:51:51,897
We have one bottle remaining.
1178
00:51:52,008 --> 00:51:54,841
We're gonna crack Andrew's
last Fuller's ESB right now,
1179
00:51:54,945 --> 00:51:57,106
and Kurt and I
are gonna sip it together.
1180
00:51:57,214 --> 00:51:58,943
A little toast to our friend.
1181
00:52:00,417 --> 00:52:02,578
To Andrew, my good friend,
I can't wait to see you again.
1182
00:52:06,022 --> 00:52:09,219
And then, of course,
the unthinkable happened again.
1183
00:52:09,326 --> 00:52:11,260
They let her out of jail again.
1184
00:52:11,361 --> 00:52:13,192
And we had to give him back
1185
00:52:13,296 --> 00:52:15,696
on January 10, 2003.
1186
00:52:15,799 --> 00:52:17,426
Shirley was out of money
and out of a lawyer,
1187
00:52:17,534 --> 00:52:19,195
so she wrote directly
to Judge Derek Green,
1188
00:52:19,302 --> 00:52:20,667
who responded through his secretary
1189
00:52:20,770 --> 00:52:22,431
with instructions
on how to write her own appeal
1190
00:52:22,539 --> 00:52:23,904
of his decision to incarcerate her
1191
00:52:24,007 --> 00:52:25,838
while awaiting an order
from the minister of justice
1192
00:52:25,942 --> 00:52:27,466
to surrender her to the States.
1193
00:52:27,577 --> 00:52:28,737
I have a few friends who are judges,
1194
00:52:28,845 --> 00:52:30,506
and there's no way
1195
00:52:30,614 --> 00:52:32,479
they would ever have responded
1196
00:52:32,582 --> 00:52:35,312
in the way that judge responded
to Shirley.
1197
00:52:35,418 --> 00:52:37,648
She did and was let back
onto the streets by...
1198
00:52:37,754 --> 00:52:39,745
Judge Gale Welsh.
1199
00:52:39,856 --> 00:52:41,323
Judge Gale Welsh.
1200
00:52:41,424 --> 00:52:42,516
Welsh refused to even consider
1201
00:52:42,626 --> 00:52:43,991
Prosecutor Mike Madden's argument
1202
00:52:44,094 --> 00:52:45,391
that Shirley's appeal was frivolous,
1203
00:52:45,495 --> 00:52:47,087
even though multiple
Legal Aid Commission attorneys
1204
00:52:47,197 --> 00:52:48,164
had reviewed her appeal
1205
00:52:48,265 --> 00:52:50,096
and refused to waste their time
representing her.
1206
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:51,098
And if you could have seen her,
1207
00:52:51,201 --> 00:52:54,659
I knew that we were going to be
seeing Shirley Turner walk free
1208
00:52:54,771 --> 00:52:57,433
the minute that woman walked
into the room, Judge Welsh.
1209
00:52:57,541 --> 00:53:00,942
She was almost fawning with
Shirley Turner, as I saw it.
1210
00:53:01,044 --> 00:53:03,035
"Oh, Dr. Turner," she said.
1211
00:53:03,146 --> 00:53:04,511
"I recognize
that you're not represented
1212
00:53:04,614 --> 00:53:06,707
but also know that, as a doctor,
you're quite capable,
1213
00:53:06,816 --> 00:53:07,714
so I'm going to run...
1214
00:53:07,817 --> 00:53:09,808
Dr. Turner,
I'm not trying to exclude you,
1215
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:11,888
however the argument
would work to your benefit.
1216
00:53:11,988 --> 00:53:13,114
That's why I'm particularly interested
1217
00:53:13,223 --> 00:53:14,247
in Mr. Madden's response."
1218
00:53:14,357 --> 00:53:15,688
I'd taken Zachary to prison.
1219
00:53:15,792 --> 00:53:17,419
I'd sat in that same little room
with her.
1220
00:53:17,527 --> 00:53:18,892
And here I am having to listen to this
1221
00:53:18,995 --> 00:53:20,485
and the judge fawn on this woman.
1222
00:53:20,597 --> 00:53:22,462
And Welsh actually asked
an accused murderer
1223
00:53:22,566 --> 00:53:24,295
to promise she'd behave herself.
1224
00:53:24,401 --> 00:53:26,232
"If I make an order giving you
judicial interim release,
1225
00:53:26,336 --> 00:53:28,304
it would be on the basis that
you would not attempt to flee
1226
00:53:28,405 --> 00:53:30,464
or hide or avoid subsequent
judicial proceedings
1227
00:53:30,574 --> 00:53:31,541
related to this matter?"
1228
00:53:31,641 --> 00:53:32,209
"Yes."
1229
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:33,833
"Is that completely understood by you?"
1230
00:53:33,944 --> 00:53:35,241
"Yes, I completely understand."
1231
00:53:35,345 --> 00:53:37,870
And here are David and I
as if we don't even exist.
1232
00:53:37,981 --> 00:53:39,642
And we don't exist.
They don't care about us.
1233
00:53:39,749 --> 00:53:41,148
They don't even care about the victim.
1234
00:53:41,251 --> 00:53:42,149
She concluded that...
1235
00:53:42,252 --> 00:53:44,049
And this is from her written decision.
1236
00:53:44,154 --> 00:53:45,678
"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary
1237
00:53:45,789 --> 00:53:46,756
in the public interest.
1238
00:53:46,856 --> 00:53:48,153
While the offence
with which she is charged
1239
00:53:48,258 --> 00:53:49,555
is a violent and serious one,
1240
00:53:49,659 --> 00:53:51,684
it was not directed
at the public at large.
1241
00:53:51,795 --> 00:53:53,786
There is no indication
of a psychological disorder
1242
00:53:53,897 --> 00:53:54,795
that would give concern
1243
00:53:54,898 --> 00:53:56,331
about potential harm
to the public generally,
1244
00:53:56,433 --> 00:53:59,527
as her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."
1245
00:53:59,636 --> 00:54:02,901
She is saying, in effect,
if I understand that sentence,
1246
00:54:03,006 --> 00:54:07,204
even if she did it, she's not
a danger to the community
1247
00:54:07,310 --> 00:54:10,279
because she's already killed
the only one she wanted to kill.
1248
00:54:10,380 --> 00:54:12,780
He's the one she was mad at.
1249
00:54:12,882 --> 00:54:14,645
He's dead.
1250
00:54:14,751 --> 00:54:17,185
So she's not likely to kill again.
1251
00:54:17,287 --> 00:54:20,984
And I find that logic
absolutely atrocious.
1252
00:54:21,091 --> 00:54:23,457
Most of us do not kill people
who anger us.
1253
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,289
We go kick a door,
scream and shout,
1254
00:54:25,395 --> 00:54:26,384
some of us throw a punch,
1255
00:54:26,496 --> 00:54:28,123
but we don't set them up and kill them.
1256
00:54:28,231 --> 00:54:29,528
You have here a human being
1257
00:54:29,633 --> 00:54:31,100
who thinks they have the right
1258
00:54:31,201 --> 00:54:34,500
to kill other people who anger them.
1259
00:54:34,604 --> 00:54:37,437
And you still let them out
in the general populace.
1260
00:54:37,540 --> 00:54:39,474
I find that appalling.
1261
00:54:39,576 --> 00:54:42,044
She was again let go
on $75,000 in sureties,
1262
00:54:42,145 --> 00:54:43,510
not one penny of which had to be paid.
1263
00:54:43,613 --> 00:54:45,547
And with that,
the government of Canada
1264
00:54:45,649 --> 00:54:48,083
let a probable pre-meditated
first-degree murderer
1265
00:54:48,184 --> 00:54:51,210
walk the streets again.
1266
00:54:51,321 --> 00:54:54,347
And they gave you back to her.
1267
00:54:56,092 --> 00:54:58,390
And after that,
things got really weird.
1268
00:55:03,667 --> 00:55:06,329
We went and wrote
another consent order.
1269
00:55:06,436 --> 00:55:09,462
And we agreed to a schedule of visits
1270
00:55:09,572 --> 00:55:13,008
with 3 or 4 hours three times a week
1271
00:55:13,109 --> 00:55:14,770
and an overnight every two weeks.
1272
00:55:14,878 --> 00:55:20,839
We got them to let us have
more contact with Shirley
1273
00:55:20,950 --> 00:55:24,408
- in order to...
- Pass him back and forth.
1274
00:55:24,521 --> 00:55:25,886
Otherwise,
we never could have done it.
1275
00:55:35,498 --> 00:55:37,796
Because we've always had to
arrange for a third party.
1276
00:55:37,901 --> 00:55:40,529
And then that third party
would be not available.
1277
00:55:40,637 --> 00:55:43,572
And we saw that we'd never get
visits with the baby
1278
00:55:43,673 --> 00:55:44,901
because she could always find a reason
1279
00:55:45,008 --> 00:55:46,134
that there was nobody there,
you know?
1280
00:55:53,683 --> 00:55:58,746
So this evolved into us actually
spending a great deal of time
1281
00:55:58,855 --> 00:55:59,913
with Shirley Turner.
1282
00:56:06,096 --> 00:56:07,859
In order to be around Zachary.
1283
00:56:12,869 --> 00:56:15,064
- What kind of things did you do?
- Go to the mall.
1284
00:56:15,171 --> 00:56:17,230
Go to the movies.
Swimming lessons we took him to.
1285
00:56:20,977 --> 00:56:23,241
She came here, bold as brass,
1286
00:56:23,346 --> 00:56:25,280
coming to be "in our face"
kind of thing.
1287
00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:31,485
I had enormous fears for them.
1288
00:56:31,588 --> 00:56:33,954
I had a fear that Shirley
would go for them.
1289
00:56:38,962 --> 00:56:40,827
And they didn't seem to be
worried for themselves.
1290
00:56:40,930 --> 00:56:42,056
In fact, they said they weren't.
1291
00:56:47,170 --> 00:56:48,432
That, at this point,
that they didn't care.
1292
00:56:53,009 --> 00:56:54,704
Can you describe what that
process was like for you?
1293
00:56:59,949 --> 00:57:01,280
- Disgusting!
- Oh, disgusting.
1294
00:57:09,692 --> 00:57:11,159
But going up to the door,
I mean, was...
1295
00:57:16,499 --> 00:57:17,466
Having to be with her...
1296
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,775
...was just nauseating.
1297
00:57:42,392 --> 00:57:45,020
We religiously did not talk
about the case.
1298
00:58:00,777 --> 00:58:03,109
She'd try to suck us into conversation.
1299
00:58:03,213 --> 00:58:04,339
Like, she'd talk about,
1300
00:58:04,447 --> 00:58:06,142
"Was Andrew's hair light
when he was a baby?"
1301
00:58:06,249 --> 00:58:07,375
And we'd just shut up.
1302
00:58:17,460 --> 00:58:18,825
I thought it was like being at war.
1303
00:58:21,965 --> 00:58:23,330
Nobody wants to do it,
but you got to do it.
1304
00:58:28,671 --> 00:58:29,797
So facing this bitch...
1305
00:58:36,813 --> 00:58:38,041
...that's the price we had to pay
1306
00:58:38,147 --> 00:58:40,012
to make sure we had a good
connection with Zachary.
1307
00:58:43,820 --> 00:58:44,946
He knew us.
We knew him.
1308
00:58:47,090 --> 00:58:49,388
So that when she finally
went to prison...
1309
00:58:51,127 --> 00:58:53,823
...he'd have a smooth transition
into our life.
1310
00:59:08,711 --> 00:59:11,145
I just feel awe about that.
1311
00:59:11,247 --> 00:59:13,215
I can't...
1312
00:59:13,316 --> 00:59:15,580
I don't know how they did it,
Kurt.
1313
00:59:15,685 --> 00:59:18,916
I don't know how they did it,
but I know why they did it.
1314
00:59:32,302 --> 00:59:37,535
And, finally, after thousands
of miles and memories,
1315
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:41,974
on a rainy Sunday afternoon,
we met.
1316
00:59:44,347 --> 00:59:46,440
Hello, bud!
1317
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:47,516
Hello!
1318
00:59:47,617 --> 00:59:50,279
This is your Uncle Kurt.
1319
00:59:51,588 --> 00:59:53,283
Hi, buddy.
1320
00:59:55,992 --> 00:59:59,553
He knew your daddy
when he was a little boy.
1321
00:59:59,662 --> 01:00:02,187
It's Uncle Kurt.
It's okay.
1322
01:00:03,666 --> 01:00:05,930
Is there anything that you
would like to say to Zachary?
1323
01:00:06,035 --> 01:00:06,933
Oh, wow.
1324
01:00:07,036 --> 01:00:08,469
Without tearing up here?
1325
01:00:10,173 --> 01:00:12,641
First of all,
I saw your pictures.
1326
01:00:12,742 --> 01:00:14,141
And you are a very cute kid,
1327
01:00:14,243 --> 01:00:16,541
and you look exactly like Andrew.
1328
01:00:16,646 --> 01:00:18,773
Definitely the cheeky
Andrew face, definitely.
1329
01:00:21,184 --> 01:00:22,981
Zachary,
you're a lucky little boy.
1330
01:00:23,086 --> 01:00:25,987
And you're an unfortunate little boy.
1331
01:00:26,089 --> 01:00:28,319
Your father,
who you'll never know,
1332
01:00:28,424 --> 01:00:31,757
was such an amazing guy.
1333
01:00:31,861 --> 01:00:36,321
And he touched so many people
in such a short period of time.
1334
01:00:36,432 --> 01:00:39,526
It's not just stories.
He was a real person.
1335
01:00:39,636 --> 01:00:41,194
Quite frankly,
don't let anybody lie to you.
1336
01:00:41,304 --> 01:00:43,670
Wouldn't eat anything green
until he went away to college.
1337
01:00:43,773 --> 01:00:46,071
Zachary is asleep in the other room.
1338
01:00:46,175 --> 01:00:47,938
He's spending the night.
1339
01:00:48,044 --> 01:00:50,911
And you're an unfortunate little boy
1340
01:00:51,014 --> 01:00:52,675
because you're more
than likely to grow up
1341
01:00:52,782 --> 01:00:58,516
without your biological father
or your biological mother.
1342
01:00:58,621 --> 01:01:00,248
But with a little bit of luck,
1343
01:01:00,356 --> 01:01:03,416
you'll get to grow up
with Andrew's parents.
1344
01:01:03,526 --> 01:01:06,757
And let me tell you this.
1345
01:01:06,863 --> 01:01:09,764
They did the most amazing job.
1346
01:01:09,866 --> 01:01:12,391
You couldn't ask for two better people.
1347
01:01:12,502 --> 01:01:14,993
Grandma loves you,yes, she does
1348
01:01:15,104 --> 01:01:17,834
Granddad loves you,yes, he does
1349
01:01:17,940 --> 01:01:20,135
Daddy loves you,yes, he does
1350
01:01:20,243 --> 01:01:22,871
Uncle Kurt's here,he loves you, too
1351
01:01:22,979 --> 01:01:25,504
We all love you, all we can
1352
01:01:25,615 --> 01:01:27,879
Darling, darling little man
1353
01:01:27,984 --> 01:01:29,281
So, from that perspective,
1354
01:01:29,385 --> 01:01:30,750
you're the luckiest little boy
in the world.
1355
01:01:30,853 --> 01:01:33,219
They love you more than life itself.
1356
01:01:33,322 --> 01:01:36,553
And if you ever need anything,
I'm not far away either.
1357
01:01:36,659 --> 01:01:38,490
And know that we'll be there for you
1358
01:01:38,594 --> 01:01:41,495
in every way that he can't be.
1359
01:01:41,597 --> 01:01:44,065
Zach, when you're old enough
and you watch this,
1360
01:01:44,167 --> 01:01:46,431
if you ever want to talk with me
personally
1361
01:01:46,536 --> 01:01:47,696
or you want to come and see me,
1362
01:01:47,804 --> 01:01:49,999
you have an open invitation
and you should know that.
1363
01:01:50,106 --> 01:01:52,074
And you're loved and I love you
1364
01:01:52,175 --> 01:01:53,699
and I care about the person
you're gonna become.
1365
01:01:53,810 --> 01:01:56,210
We love him, and we do simple
things like send him books.
1366
01:01:56,312 --> 01:01:58,712
- Happy Birthday!
- Can't wait to meet him.
1367
01:01:58,815 --> 01:02:01,147
I hope to get the chance to meet you.
1368
01:02:01,250 --> 01:02:02,911
Oh, I hope I'm Uncle Ken to Zachary.
1369
01:02:03,019 --> 01:02:05,647
'Cause if you're anything like
Andrew, it's gonna be good.
1370
01:02:05,755 --> 01:02:08,053
I think you'll turn out just great.
1371
01:02:08,157 --> 01:02:10,182
It says "Student Affairs."
Are you a student?
1372
01:02:10,293 --> 01:02:12,386
Who knows? Maybe someday
you'll be applying here
1373
01:02:12,495 --> 01:02:13,621
to the Faculty of Medicine.
1374
01:02:13,730 --> 01:02:16,426
Does this look exciting?
We're gonna do an interview.
1375
01:02:16,532 --> 01:02:18,966
Even though things started tragically,
1376
01:02:19,068 --> 01:02:23,368
you know, he's the blessing
Andrew left behind.
1377
01:02:23,473 --> 01:02:25,532
I parked the van two blocks away
1378
01:02:25,641 --> 01:02:26,869
'cause it was
the only vehicle for miles
1379
01:02:26,976 --> 01:02:27,874
with California plates
1380
01:02:27,977 --> 01:02:29,968
and would give away to Shirley
that I was in town.
1381
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:31,603
- Sort of a stealth van, you see.
- Exactly.
1382
01:02:31,714 --> 01:02:32,840
If she knew, I was afraid
1383
01:02:32,949 --> 01:02:34,007
she would find excuses to withhold you
1384
01:02:34,117 --> 01:02:35,846
so that I couldn't see you.
1385
01:02:35,952 --> 01:02:38,079
Every time the doorbell rang,
I hid in the back bedroom,
1386
01:02:38,187 --> 01:02:39,950
as it could have been her
just dropping by unannounced.
1387
01:02:40,056 --> 01:02:41,717
Hi, David. Hi, Kate.
This is Shirley.
1388
01:02:41,824 --> 01:02:43,018
On the days we didn't have you,
1389
01:02:43,126 --> 01:02:44,957
I discovered your dad's
medical-school world,
1390
01:02:45,061 --> 01:02:47,962
met his classmates, found
more footage of him for you.
1391
01:02:48,064 --> 01:02:52,524
And, finally,
I found myself face-to-face
1392
01:02:52,635 --> 01:02:54,102
with the thing that had set me
on this journey
1393
01:02:54,203 --> 01:02:55,295
in the first place.
1394
01:02:55,404 --> 01:02:57,998
One of the major things
that Andrew and I did together,
1395
01:02:58,107 --> 01:03:01,508
or that we had in common,
was photography.
1396
01:03:01,611 --> 01:03:04,273
Sometimes we'd bring the cameras out
1397
01:03:04,380 --> 01:03:06,974
and go around the lake and by the pond,
1398
01:03:07,083 --> 01:03:08,573
and take some pictures around there.
1399
01:03:08,684 --> 01:03:10,208
I told Andrew, I said,
"Listen, you're gonna have to
1400
01:03:10,319 --> 01:03:12,412
show me a few tricks or whatever
1401
01:03:12,522 --> 01:03:13,750
and show me some of your pictures."
1402
01:03:13,856 --> 01:03:16,051
I'd still love to see
some of the pictures
1403
01:03:16,159 --> 01:03:17,285
that he took through medical school.
1404
01:03:17,393 --> 01:03:18,485
I've never seen any of them.
1405
01:03:39,515 --> 01:03:42,177
Him and his dad had done quite
a bit of photography together.
1406
01:03:42,285 --> 01:03:45,083
Right after this happened,
I fired out an e-mail
1407
01:03:45,188 --> 01:03:48,351
saying we should try to think
of some sort of memorial award.
1408
01:03:48,457 --> 01:03:50,687
And I felt like
that would be something also
1409
01:03:50,793 --> 01:03:53,353
that his dad would really feel
honored by.
1410
01:03:53,462 --> 01:03:55,896
And then have a wall
in the medical school.
1411
01:03:55,998 --> 01:03:58,364
To be able to say
year after year, you know,
1412
01:03:58,467 --> 01:04:00,367
these are the winners,
and people could look
1413
01:04:00,469 --> 01:04:02,266
and be like,
"Wow," you know, "look at this."
1414
01:04:02,371 --> 01:04:03,702
I think I have a meeting
tomorrow morning
1415
01:04:03,806 --> 01:04:05,330
to participate in the judging tomorrow.
1416
01:04:05,441 --> 01:04:06,772
And I find it interesting
1417
01:04:06,876 --> 01:04:09,140
that you say
that you hadn't heard that.
1418
01:04:09,245 --> 01:04:10,269
I wonder if part of it
1419
01:04:10,379 --> 01:04:13,075
was eventually maybe have
his dad independently say,
1420
01:04:13,182 --> 01:04:14,672
"Oh, who took this picture?
1421
01:04:14,784 --> 01:04:16,342
It's a really nice picture."
1422
01:04:16,452 --> 01:04:17,817
And have him say, "Oh, me!"
1423
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:19,148
I don't know.
1424
01:04:19,255 --> 01:04:20,745
But it's something he did.
1425
01:04:22,091 --> 01:04:25,491
On July 18, 2003,
you turned one.
1426
01:04:29,599 --> 01:04:31,590
Shirley decided to hold
a birthday party for you
1427
01:04:31,701 --> 01:04:32,599
at McDonald's.
1428
01:04:32,702 --> 01:04:34,670
She started to open presents.
1429
01:04:34,770 --> 01:04:35,964
Well, he wasn't interested in presents.
1430
01:04:36,072 --> 01:04:37,437
He wanted to get down.
1431
01:04:37,540 --> 01:04:40,998
So, when he got down,
he made for me.
1432
01:04:41,110 --> 01:04:44,045
Shirley was very, very angry.
1433
01:04:44,146 --> 01:04:46,671
So she said,
"He loves you more than me.
1434
01:04:46,782 --> 01:04:48,249
Why don't you take him?"
1435
01:04:58,194 --> 01:05:01,686
Zachary always,
from the time he could choose,
1436
01:05:01,797 --> 01:05:04,288
would choose Kate over her.
1437
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,927
That was obvious, and
other people talked about it.
1438
01:05:08,037 --> 01:05:10,972
Kate is a warm and loving mother.
1439
01:05:11,073 --> 01:05:13,371
She was a phony mother.
1440
01:05:13,476 --> 01:05:14,773
I love you.
1441
01:05:14,877 --> 01:05:16,572
Mommy loves you.
Yes, I do.
1442
01:05:16,679 --> 01:05:19,273
She knew the motions,
but there's no warmth in it.
1443
01:05:19,382 --> 01:05:21,009
Zachary.
I love you, baby.
1444
01:05:21,117 --> 01:05:22,516
Mommy loves you.
Mommy loves you.
1445
01:05:22,618 --> 01:05:24,142
She said that she had kids
1446
01:05:24,253 --> 01:05:26,221
and that she wasn't interested
in living with them either.
1447
01:05:26,322 --> 01:05:27,414
Andrew said she kind of
went off to medical school
1448
01:05:27,523 --> 01:05:28,421
and left them.
1449
01:05:28,524 --> 01:05:30,253
And she said that they lived
with their fathers,
1450
01:05:30,359 --> 01:05:31,951
and she said that children
were more trouble
1451
01:05:32,061 --> 01:05:33,358
than they were worth.
1452
01:05:33,462 --> 01:05:35,089
I believe she's using
her own children now
1453
01:05:35,197 --> 01:05:37,097
to manipulate the system
1454
01:05:37,199 --> 01:05:39,497
and to make Kate and David suffer,
1455
01:05:39,602 --> 01:05:41,536
even if she goes to jail.
1456
01:05:41,637 --> 01:05:43,104
Fortunately,
there are enough people here
1457
01:05:43,205 --> 01:05:46,299
who are in the system,
the justice system,
1458
01:05:46,409 --> 01:05:47,899
the child-protection system,
1459
01:05:48,010 --> 01:05:49,477
that I know personally
1460
01:05:49,578 --> 01:05:53,139
who have told me
that that will not happen.
1461
01:05:53,249 --> 01:05:55,114
The next hearing
in the extradition process
1462
01:05:55,217 --> 01:05:56,650
was set for September 25th,
1463
01:05:56,752 --> 01:05:58,276
your dad's 30th birthday,
1464
01:05:58,387 --> 01:06:00,184
where she would likely be
re-incarcerated
1465
01:06:00,289 --> 01:06:02,280
and at last returned to the U.S.
for trial.
1466
01:06:02,391 --> 01:06:05,758
But, for now, it was time for me
to go home.
1467
01:06:05,861 --> 01:06:08,091
- I have to say bye-bye now.
- Gonna say "bye-bye"?
1468
01:06:08,197 --> 01:06:09,425
Bye-bye to Uncle Kurt?
1469
01:06:09,532 --> 01:06:10,829
You gonna give him a hug?
1470
01:06:10,933 --> 01:06:13,094
- Can I have a hug?
- Grab him and take it.
1471
01:06:16,072 --> 01:06:17,903
Was that funny?
Was that funny?
1472
01:06:18,007 --> 01:06:20,100
Bye-bye, sweet pea.
1473
01:06:20,209 --> 01:06:21,642
I'll see you later, buddy.
1474
01:06:21,744 --> 01:06:23,939
Well, you'll be a little bigger
next time I see you.
1475
01:06:24,046 --> 01:06:25,911
He had just completed
the child health checks
1476
01:06:26,015 --> 01:06:26,913
that they do.
1477
01:06:27,016 --> 01:06:28,779
He's ahead of his time.
He's doing great.
1478
01:06:28,884 --> 01:06:30,317
He's up to par on everything,
1479
01:06:30,419 --> 01:06:32,478
but he doesn't like to wave goodbye.
1480
01:06:32,588 --> 01:06:34,783
- Bye-bye!
- Bye-bye!
1481
01:06:34,890 --> 01:06:37,415
One of them said, "That's fine,
1482
01:06:37,526 --> 01:06:39,494
'cause he's got lots of time
to learn that."
1483
01:06:39,595 --> 01:06:41,119
Is there anything you'd like
to say to Zachary?
1484
01:06:41,230 --> 01:06:42,822
I'm hoping I'm gonna have
all the opportunity
1485
01:06:42,932 --> 01:06:44,331
to say those things to Zachary.
1486
01:06:48,137 --> 01:06:50,367
We had been out.
We came back here.
1487
01:06:50,473 --> 01:06:55,172
There was a little card
in the door from Constable Walsh
1488
01:06:55,277 --> 01:06:57,370
saying, "Would we contact him?"
1489
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:58,811
- I was here.
- Mark and I were here.
1490
01:06:58,914 --> 01:06:59,744
I was at my house.
1491
01:06:59,849 --> 01:07:03,080
I was home watching the 6:00 NTV news.
1492
01:07:03,185 --> 01:07:06,552
And the next thing, I saw a
picture of Shirley and Zachary
1493
01:07:06,655 --> 01:07:09,351
and saying that they were missing.
1494
01:07:09,458 --> 01:07:11,722
And I was just screaming
at the top of my lungs.
1495
01:07:11,827 --> 01:07:13,419
And I immediately fell to the floor.
1496
01:07:13,529 --> 01:07:15,326
So I immediately went over
to their apartment.
1497
01:07:15,431 --> 01:07:16,455
We came here.
1498
01:07:16,565 --> 01:07:18,226
So we got in the car
and went over there.
1499
01:07:18,334 --> 01:07:20,564
- Our vicar came by.
- I'll never forget that moment.
1500
01:07:20,669 --> 01:07:21,863
They're gonna find them.
They're gonna be okay.
1501
01:07:21,971 --> 01:07:23,438
You're overreacting.
You're gonna think the worst.
1502
01:07:23,539 --> 01:07:25,200
Look, you know,
she's probably gone for a night.
1503
01:07:25,307 --> 01:07:26,899
My first thought was that she had left.
1504
01:07:27,009 --> 01:07:28,237
She had taken him and run.
1505
01:07:28,344 --> 01:07:30,278
She couldn't do that.
She couldn't possibly do that.
1506
01:07:30,379 --> 01:07:32,074
That was about 2 or 3 hours
of uncertainty.
1507
01:07:32,181 --> 01:07:33,842
The emotion was overwhelming.
1508
01:07:38,020 --> 01:07:39,851
They called us and told us
they were doing a search
1509
01:07:39,955 --> 01:07:41,923
of the beach
out in Conception Bay South.
1510
01:07:42,024 --> 01:07:43,582
I thought, "They're doing that
for a reason."
1511
01:07:43,692 --> 01:07:44,590
I had received a call.
1512
01:07:44,693 --> 01:07:47,184
"We're having a press conference
on the Turner case."
1513
01:07:47,296 --> 01:07:49,025
I went to Father Chris,
I just whispered to him,
1514
01:07:49,131 --> 01:07:50,120
"I think you better stay,
1515
01:07:50,232 --> 01:07:51,631
because I think I'm gonna be
coming back here
1516
01:07:51,734 --> 01:07:53,031
with some really bad news."
1517
01:07:53,135 --> 01:07:55,899
He told me that they had found a baby.
1518
01:07:56,005 --> 01:07:57,939
Along with an adult.
1519
01:07:58,040 --> 01:07:59,268
I knew then that there was two bodies.
1520
01:07:59,375 --> 01:08:01,240
"They're working
to identify the bodies."
1521
01:08:01,343 --> 01:08:02,537
I said,
"You got to come pick me up."
1522
01:08:02,645 --> 01:08:05,546
We came to the door, and it was
Jackie and Constable Walsh.
1523
01:08:05,648 --> 01:08:06,876
I thought, "Oh, my gosh,
1524
01:08:06,982 --> 01:08:09,041
somebody's with them now
trying to tell them."
1525
01:08:09,151 --> 01:08:10,778
We went in, and I told them.
1526
01:08:12,721 --> 01:08:15,053
And what I saw after that
1527
01:08:15,157 --> 01:08:16,590
I will never forget in my life.
1528
01:08:23,933 --> 01:08:25,798
Rage.
Absolute vicious rage.
1529
01:08:25,901 --> 01:08:27,163
Someone has done that
to someone you love.
1530
01:08:27,269 --> 01:08:29,567
If the person who did this
had been here, I'd kill them.
1531
01:08:32,374 --> 01:08:33,534
Period.
No questions. Kill them!
1532
01:08:33,642 --> 01:08:35,610
Strangle that fucking bitch
right here, right now!
1533
01:08:35,711 --> 01:08:37,338
Period.
No questions. Kill them!
1534
01:08:45,488 --> 01:08:47,956
And then we went to
have to identify him,
1535
01:08:48,057 --> 01:08:49,684
and we couldn't touch him
1536
01:08:49,792 --> 01:08:52,260
because they said he was forensic.
1537
01:08:52,361 --> 01:08:54,886
He hadn't been through the autopsy yet.
1538
01:08:54,997 --> 01:08:58,956
There's this table and sort of
white sheets up all around him.
1539
01:08:59,068 --> 01:09:00,797
With a white sheet over a body.
1540
01:09:00,903 --> 01:09:02,996
You could see over the sheets,
clearly, it was him.
1541
01:09:03,105 --> 01:09:05,699
It's really him.
1542
01:09:08,477 --> 01:09:10,445
And then Kate's legs quit.
1543
01:09:10,546 --> 01:09:12,377
She just went straight to the floor.
1544
01:09:12,481 --> 01:09:15,780
David was lying on top of Kate
on the floor.
1545
01:09:15,885 --> 01:09:18,718
We managed to get them out. I
don't know how we did it, Kurt.
1546
01:09:18,821 --> 01:09:21,585
I don't know how I got out myself.
1547
01:09:21,690 --> 01:09:24,784
That poor little baby.
1548
01:09:24,894 --> 01:09:28,295
A summary of the evidence
against Shirley Turner.
1549
01:09:28,397 --> 01:09:29,261
Part Two.
1550
01:09:29,365 --> 01:09:32,163
In July of 2003,
Shirley met a man at a bar
1551
01:09:32,268 --> 01:09:33,428
in downtown St. John's.
1552
01:09:33,536 --> 01:09:34,468
They went out twice
1553
01:09:34,570 --> 01:09:35,764
until his friends showed him
articles on the Web
1554
01:09:35,871 --> 01:09:38,499
saying she was accused
of killing her last boyfriend.
1555
01:09:38,607 --> 01:09:40,404
He told her he didn't
want to see her anymore.
1556
01:09:40,509 --> 01:09:43,069
She then called and left over
200 messages on his phone,
1557
01:09:43,179 --> 01:09:44,703
including one saying
that she was pregnant
1558
01:09:44,813 --> 01:09:45,939
and that he needed to...
1559
01:09:46,048 --> 01:09:47,879
Step up to the plate
and be a fucking man.
1560
01:09:47,983 --> 01:09:49,644
She wasn't,
as her autopsy showed.
1561
01:09:49,752 --> 01:09:50,650
The night she killed you,
1562
01:09:50,753 --> 01:09:52,584
she made a phony phone call
from her apartment
1563
01:09:52,688 --> 01:09:53,848
to a friend's answering machine,
1564
01:09:53,956 --> 01:09:55,617
claiming to be
at this man's house with you.
1565
01:09:55,724 --> 01:09:58,420
She took your brother T.J.'s car
at about 11:38 that night
1566
01:09:58,527 --> 01:09:59,858
and drove to the man's house.
1567
01:09:59,962 --> 01:10:01,190
She got lost along the way
1568
01:10:01,297 --> 01:10:03,424
and asked a woman for directions
along this road
1569
01:10:03,532 --> 01:10:04,794
around 12:45 a.m.
1570
01:10:04,900 --> 01:10:06,390
She parked behind his house,
1571
01:10:06,502 --> 01:10:08,800
left a used tampon and photos of
the two of you on his property,
1572
01:10:08,904 --> 01:10:10,531
completing her attempt
to frame this man
1573
01:10:10,639 --> 01:10:11,697
for what she was about to do,
1574
01:10:11,807 --> 01:10:14,139
then took you down to the ocean
behind his home.
1575
01:10:14,243 --> 01:10:15,403
A night watchman in the area
1576
01:10:15,511 --> 01:10:16,944
thought he heard a baby crying
in the distance
1577
01:10:17,046 --> 01:10:18,308
around 2:30 a.m.
1578
01:10:18,414 --> 01:10:19,779
Shirley took her prescription
for Ativan,
1579
01:10:19,882 --> 01:10:22,180
prescribed for her
by psychiatrist John Doucet,
1580
01:10:22,284 --> 01:10:24,650
mixed it into your formula,
then took some herself.
1581
01:10:24,753 --> 01:10:26,277
The only good thing we know about this
1582
01:10:26,388 --> 01:10:28,720
is that you were not conscious
and you did not suffer.
1583
01:10:28,824 --> 01:10:29,950
She then...
1584
01:10:30,059 --> 01:10:31,390
She then walked to the edge of a pier
1585
01:10:31,493 --> 01:10:33,825
and with you strapped
to her stomach with a sweater,
1586
01:10:33,929 --> 01:10:35,294
she jumped into the Atlantic Ocean.
1587
01:10:37,533 --> 01:10:39,501
Mommy loves you.
1588
01:10:39,602 --> 01:10:40,830
Yes, I do.
1589
01:10:40,936 --> 01:10:42,198
Mommy loves you.
1590
01:10:42,304 --> 01:10:44,829
Did you have a nice nap?
What did you dream about?
1591
01:10:44,940 --> 01:10:46,703
Mommy loves you.
1592
01:10:46,809 --> 01:10:49,175
Mommy misses you.
1593
01:10:53,749 --> 01:10:57,310
He was found face upward
with his eyes wide open.
1594
01:10:57,419 --> 01:11:00,115
And the policeman who found him
1595
01:11:00,222 --> 01:11:03,055
said that he had wrapped him
in a blanket
1596
01:11:03,158 --> 01:11:04,523
rather than a plastic bag,
1597
01:11:04,627 --> 01:11:08,961
and he and another officer
carried him gently back.
1598
01:11:09,064 --> 01:11:12,397
And he made very sure that
he kept the body very far away
1599
01:11:12,501 --> 01:11:14,162
from the wicked woman
who had murdered him.
1600
01:11:14,270 --> 01:11:17,467
When I sit here,
I hate her so much.
1601
01:11:20,909 --> 01:11:22,240
When we came here,
1602
01:11:22,344 --> 01:11:24,972
David and I realized
what Shirley Turner was.
1603
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:26,513
She was the devil.
1604
01:11:26,615 --> 01:11:30,779
But people think that you're
some kind of basic religious nut
1605
01:11:30,886 --> 01:11:32,148
if you believe in the devil.
1606
01:11:32,254 --> 01:11:34,279
I haven't prayed
since Zachary died. I haven't.
1607
01:11:34,390 --> 01:11:36,290
I have some issues I have to deal with.
1608
01:11:36,392 --> 01:11:38,383
You know, my faith
has been tested by this.
1609
01:11:40,462 --> 01:11:42,657
Was a beautiful service.
1610
01:11:42,765 --> 01:11:44,733
A real tribute to the little boy.
1611
01:11:44,833 --> 01:11:47,631
Oh, I don't know how many people
were here, probably 300 or 400.
1612
01:11:47,736 --> 01:11:49,226
Maybe more.
I don't recall.
1613
01:11:49,338 --> 01:11:53,365
I've never seen a coffin
so small before.
1614
01:11:55,778 --> 01:11:57,871
They shouldn't have them that size.
1615
01:11:59,682 --> 01:12:00,580
He was in his little suit
1616
01:12:00,683 --> 01:12:04,414
that he'd had
the pictures taken in, I think.
1617
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:05,452
What went in it?
1618
01:12:05,554 --> 01:12:07,283
What went in it?
His little ball.
1619
01:12:07,389 --> 01:12:11,018
And I don't remember
if she put a truck in.
1620
01:12:11,126 --> 01:12:15,927
Lots of kisses and hugs
and tears went in it.
1621
01:12:20,536 --> 01:12:22,800
Lots of hopes and dreams.
1622
01:12:27,743 --> 01:12:29,233
Your grandma and grandpa
went back to England
1623
01:12:29,345 --> 01:12:32,007
and spread your ashes with your dad's.
1624
01:12:32,114 --> 01:12:33,342
They went back to St. Louis
1625
01:12:33,449 --> 01:12:36,077
and spread your ashes with your dad's.
1626
01:12:36,185 --> 01:12:38,915
And I didn't go with him.
1627
01:12:39,021 --> 01:12:39,919
Andrew wanted to be cremated.
1628
01:12:40,022 --> 01:12:41,887
Oh, yes.
Yes.
1629
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:42,922
What bothers Kate
1630
01:12:43,025 --> 01:12:45,516
is that she did not go with him
to the crematorium
1631
01:12:45,627 --> 01:12:47,151
and stay with him right to the end.
1632
01:12:47,262 --> 01:12:50,629
He went from the funeral home
to the crematorium all alone.
1633
01:12:50,733 --> 01:12:53,566
In plastic bags.
1634
01:12:55,471 --> 01:12:58,201
With only his head sticking out!
1635
01:12:59,742 --> 01:13:02,176
Come on, Kate.
1636
01:13:03,879 --> 01:13:06,848
He wouldn't care about that.
1637
01:13:10,352 --> 01:13:15,312
That's why we went right up
to the oven doors with Zachary.
1638
01:13:23,665 --> 01:13:26,600
This is what
that fucking bitch didn't know!
1639
01:13:26,702 --> 01:13:28,294
Or maybe she did know.
1640
01:13:28,404 --> 01:13:30,736
This is what she's leaving.
1641
01:13:34,910 --> 01:13:36,935
Maybe she did know.
1642
01:13:37,045 --> 01:13:38,706
If she thought about it at all,
1643
01:13:38,814 --> 01:13:42,079
she didn't give a good goddamn!
1644
01:13:43,218 --> 01:13:46,187
And this is what I hate her for.
1645
01:13:47,756 --> 01:13:49,553
I hate her for a lot of things.
1646
01:13:49,658 --> 01:13:51,421
Stealing the rest of Andrew's life
1647
01:13:51,527 --> 01:13:53,119
and virtually all of Zachary's life
1648
01:13:53,228 --> 01:13:55,321
and then this.
1649
01:13:55,431 --> 01:13:57,899
Leaving us like this.
1650
01:13:59,535 --> 01:14:02,329
A couple of times,
lying in there in bed at night,
1651
01:14:02,438 --> 01:14:06,898
I considered fixing the problem myself.
1652
01:14:07,009 --> 01:14:08,874
Pick a night when Kate took
a sleeping pill,
1653
01:14:08,977 --> 01:14:12,276
so she wouldn't know I was up.
1654
01:14:12,381 --> 01:14:13,973
Get up in the middle of the night.
1655
01:14:14,082 --> 01:14:15,344
Dream up a pretext.
1656
01:14:15,451 --> 01:14:17,715
Go kill Shirley and come back
and go back to bed,
1657
01:14:17,820 --> 01:14:19,447
so Kate would not know.
1658
01:14:19,555 --> 01:14:23,651
That way, number one,
she could not harm Zachary.
1659
01:14:23,759 --> 01:14:27,422
And number two, even if
they did catch me at it,
1660
01:14:27,529 --> 01:14:29,690
I'm the first one they come
looking for, of course,
1661
01:14:29,798 --> 01:14:31,322
but Kate could truthfully say
1662
01:14:31,433 --> 01:14:32,627
she didn't know that I was doing it,
1663
01:14:32,734 --> 01:14:35,931
so she might still
get to bring up Zachary
1664
01:14:36,038 --> 01:14:38,768
and get him started, even
if I go to prison in Canada.
1665
01:14:38,874 --> 01:14:42,469
We've worked through
possibilities ad nauseam.
1666
01:14:42,578 --> 01:14:44,068
Suppose we grab Zachary and run.
1667
01:14:44,179 --> 01:14:46,807
Number one, we got to get
off the island of Newfoundland.
1668
01:14:46,915 --> 01:14:49,884
The big drawback against living
here is getting out of here.
1669
01:14:49,985 --> 01:14:51,543
There's only three ways to do that.
1670
01:14:51,653 --> 01:14:52,984
Ferry, boat, airplane.
1671
01:14:53,088 --> 01:14:55,750
The airplane and the ferry
would be covered
1672
01:14:55,858 --> 01:14:57,155
as soon as Zachary's missing.
1673
01:14:57,259 --> 01:14:59,557
We'd have to hire a boat somehow,
1674
01:14:59,661 --> 01:15:01,185
which means you take in a third party
1675
01:15:01,296 --> 01:15:03,594
to the crime of kidnapping.
We can't go home.
1676
01:15:03,699 --> 01:15:07,533
We cannot ever identify
ourselves as ourselves.
1677
01:15:07,636 --> 01:15:10,571
Have cash only stashed
all around the country.
1678
01:15:10,672 --> 01:15:14,267
Zachary would never be allowed
to know his family, our friends.
1679
01:15:14,376 --> 01:15:16,310
So that path...
1680
01:15:16,411 --> 01:15:19,938
big, big, big, big risk
with a horrible life.
1681
01:15:20,048 --> 01:15:20,946
So that's out.
1682
01:15:21,049 --> 01:15:23,517
Legal approaches we might
have taken. Invent something.
1683
01:15:23,619 --> 01:15:26,782
File affidavit saying
Shirley slipped one night
1684
01:15:26,889 --> 01:15:28,083
when we were around
1685
01:15:28,190 --> 01:15:31,853
and said a threat of some kind
that might get her incarcerated.
1686
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,520
But that would just be
our word against hers.
1687
01:15:34,630 --> 01:15:38,532
The best shot we had
at keeping Zachary alive
1688
01:15:38,634 --> 01:15:41,694
was I kill her myself.
1689
01:15:41,803 --> 01:15:45,671
Other than doing that,
I can think of no other way
1690
01:15:45,774 --> 01:15:48,242
to save Zachary from that bitch.
1691
01:15:55,083 --> 01:15:56,880
There's a logic in it.
1692
01:15:56,985 --> 01:15:58,475
But I didn't do it.
1693
01:15:58,587 --> 01:16:00,919
'Cause I trusted government
to do its job.
1694
01:16:01,023 --> 01:16:02,615
Government is supposed to stop that
1695
01:16:02,724 --> 01:16:03,918
so I don't have to do it personally.
1696
01:16:04,026 --> 01:16:06,119
In this case, they didn't even
get her off the street
1697
01:16:06,228 --> 01:16:07,786
and they even gave her a baby
to look after.
1698
01:16:07,896 --> 01:16:10,694
My understanding is that
proper protocols were followed.
1699
01:16:10,799 --> 01:16:13,768
I have asked my officials to,
did ask them some time ago,
1700
01:16:13,869 --> 01:16:16,804
to follow up with the board
to see, in fact,
1701
01:16:16,905 --> 01:16:20,306
that all the proper protocols
had been adhered to.
1702
01:16:20,409 --> 01:16:22,400
They were gambling Zachary's life.
1703
01:16:22,511 --> 01:16:23,535
They were gambling the lives
1704
01:16:23,645 --> 01:16:25,670
of anyone in the general population
1705
01:16:25,781 --> 01:16:27,271
that Shirley came in contact with.
1706
01:16:27,382 --> 01:16:30,510
We, the vast majority of good people
1707
01:16:30,619 --> 01:16:32,246
who don't kill people,
are stuck.
1708
01:16:32,354 --> 01:16:33,685
We got nowhere to go.
1709
01:16:33,789 --> 01:16:35,381
We figured we'd hold a press conference
1710
01:16:35,490 --> 01:16:38,755
and try to push for changes in law.
1711
01:16:38,860 --> 01:16:41,226
The morning that we had
scheduled the press conference,
1712
01:16:41,330 --> 01:16:42,456
I was in the shower.
1713
01:16:42,564 --> 01:16:44,759
Kate came in with the phone.
"It's Jackie.
1714
01:16:44,866 --> 01:16:46,834
She says we can't hold
the press conference."
1715
01:16:46,935 --> 01:16:50,962
Technically, there's still
a press ban in place.
1716
01:16:51,073 --> 01:16:52,097
I said, "Fuck them.
Fuck them!
1717
01:16:52,207 --> 01:16:54,539
If they want to lock me up for talking
1718
01:16:54,643 --> 01:16:56,668
while they let murderers walk
around free, just..."
1719
01:16:56,778 --> 01:16:58,439
We believe that Shirley Turner
1720
01:16:58,547 --> 01:17:01,448
bears 100% of the responsibility
1721
01:17:01,550 --> 01:17:03,415
for the murder of our son,
Andrew.
1722
01:17:03,518 --> 01:17:05,281
We believe that the legal system
1723
01:17:05,387 --> 01:17:08,049
helped her to kill our grandson,
Zachary.
1724
01:17:08,156 --> 01:17:11,455
When Shirley Turner was formally
charged and escaped to Canada,
1725
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,324
we naively thought she would be
sent back to Pennsylvania
1726
01:17:14,429 --> 01:17:16,124
within a few weeks at the most.
1727
01:17:16,231 --> 01:17:18,165
When we learned
that she was out on bail,
1728
01:17:18,266 --> 01:17:20,427
under an order
from Justice David Russell,
1729
01:17:20,535 --> 01:17:21,900
we were numb.
1730
01:17:22,004 --> 01:17:22,902
Numb!
1731
01:17:23,005 --> 01:17:24,836
Good afternoon.
Judge Russell's office.
1732
01:17:24,940 --> 01:17:26,271
I'm a documentary filmmaker,
1733
01:17:26,375 --> 01:17:28,536
and I'm doing a documentary
about the Zachary Turner case.
1734
01:17:28,644 --> 01:17:30,441
I think all he might have done one time
1735
01:17:30,545 --> 01:17:32,035
was probably a bail review.
1736
01:17:32,147 --> 01:17:33,239
Is that what you're calling about?
1737
01:17:33,348 --> 01:17:35,111
Yeah, it was December 12, 2001,
actually. Yeah.
1738
01:17:35,217 --> 01:17:36,115
Okay.
1739
01:17:36,218 --> 01:17:38,880
Judge Russell is sorry, but he
won't be able to be interviewed
1740
01:17:38,987 --> 01:17:40,284
in connection with that matter.
1741
01:17:40,389 --> 01:17:41,583
Crown Prosecutor Mike Madden
1742
01:17:41,690 --> 01:17:43,988
didn't even argue against
her release on bail that day
1743
01:17:44,092 --> 01:17:45,423
and instead entered the courtroom
1744
01:17:45,527 --> 01:17:47,085
with an agreement already
in place for her release.
1745
01:17:47,195 --> 01:17:48,093
Mike Madden speaking.
1746
01:17:48,196 --> 01:17:51,859
I'm a documentary filmmaker.
I was a friend of Andrew Bagby.
1747
01:17:51,967 --> 01:17:53,491
Wondering if you would be interested
1748
01:17:53,602 --> 01:17:54,728
in possibly being interviewed for...
1749
01:17:54,836 --> 01:17:56,167
No, I don't think so.
1750
01:17:56,271 --> 01:17:57,465
Not one penny of her bail sureties
1751
01:17:57,572 --> 01:17:59,437
had to be paid by anyone who signed,
1752
01:17:59,541 --> 01:18:01,600
nor did they have to show
proof of ability to pay.
1753
01:18:01,710 --> 01:18:03,735
No money's put up.
No money at all. It's useless.
1754
01:18:03,845 --> 01:18:05,745
They could have put 20 cents
or $20 million.
1755
01:18:05,847 --> 01:18:07,109
Wouldn't have made any difference.
1756
01:18:07,215 --> 01:18:08,409
Her psychiatrist put up the $65,000,
1757
01:18:08,517 --> 01:18:09,984
and that's another issue altogether.
1758
01:18:10,085 --> 01:18:12,246
Hi. You've reached Dr. Doucet's office.
1759
01:18:12,354 --> 01:18:14,083
Please leave your name,
telephone number,
1760
01:18:14,189 --> 01:18:15,156
and a brief message.
1761
01:18:15,257 --> 01:18:17,225
Hi.
I'm calling for Dr. Doucet.
1762
01:18:17,325 --> 01:18:18,587
My call was not returned.
1763
01:18:18,694 --> 01:18:20,321
Time. We thought it was all about time.
1764
01:18:20,429 --> 01:18:22,954
Each step in the extradition process,
1765
01:18:23,065 --> 01:18:24,657
each incomprehensible delay,
1766
01:18:24,766 --> 01:18:27,291
four weeks, six weeks,
over and over again,
1767
01:18:27,402 --> 01:18:28,994
there was another knife in our guts.
1768
01:18:29,104 --> 01:18:32,005
"The law is slow," they told us,
and it was!
1769
01:18:32,107 --> 01:18:34,667
Our lawyer Jackie
went to see Betty Day,
1770
01:18:34,776 --> 01:18:37,074
an administrator somewhere
in the hierarchy
1771
01:18:37,179 --> 01:18:38,441
of Child Protective Services,
1772
01:18:38,547 --> 01:18:41,914
and told her that we are concerned
1773
01:18:42,017 --> 01:18:43,416
about the safety of the baby
1774
01:18:43,518 --> 01:18:47,113
because the mother is accused
of a pre-meditated murder.
1775
01:18:47,222 --> 01:18:50,214
And nothing happened.
1776
01:18:50,325 --> 01:18:52,190
Hello. Department of Health
and Community Services.
1777
01:18:52,294 --> 01:18:54,353
Hi. I'm trying to reach Elizabeth Day.
1778
01:18:54,463 --> 01:18:57,023
Elizabeth Day is not available.
1779
01:18:57,132 --> 01:18:59,896
At the tone,
please record your message.
1780
01:19:00,001 --> 01:19:01,059
My call was not returned.
1781
01:19:01,169 --> 01:19:03,228
If you were
in the Family Health Services,
1782
01:19:03,338 --> 01:19:06,034
wouldn't you want to know
who this accused murderer
1783
01:19:06,141 --> 01:19:08,075
was arranging
for her baby to stay with?
1784
01:19:08,176 --> 01:19:09,575
Nobody ever came to see us.
1785
01:19:09,678 --> 01:19:11,168
Before we left Sunnyvale,
1786
01:19:11,279 --> 01:19:12,871
we got a police report
to say that we were good people.
1787
01:19:12,981 --> 01:19:15,882
Our friends and my employer,
et cetera, write letters
1788
01:19:15,984 --> 01:19:19,147
that we were upright members
of the community.
1789
01:19:19,254 --> 01:19:20,653
Nobody asked us for that.
1790
01:19:20,756 --> 01:19:23,816
We could have been convicted
child molesters in California.
1791
01:19:23,925 --> 01:19:26,018
- They didn't care.
- And nobody would've known.
1792
01:19:26,128 --> 01:19:27,755
She wrote directly
to Judge Derek Green,
1793
01:19:27,863 --> 01:19:29,125
who responded through his secretary
1794
01:19:29,231 --> 01:19:30,823
with instructions
on how to write her own appeal
1795
01:19:30,932 --> 01:19:32,399
of his decision to incarcerate her.
1796
01:19:32,501 --> 01:19:33,695
- Mr. Kuenne?
- Yes?
1797
01:19:33,802 --> 01:19:35,429
Yeah,
this is Chief Justice Green.
1798
01:19:35,537 --> 01:19:39,303
What I did is on the record
and will speak for itself.
1799
01:19:39,407 --> 01:19:40,374
Okay.
Okay.
1800
01:19:40,475 --> 01:19:42,773
Under an order from Justice Gale Welsh,
1801
01:19:42,878 --> 01:19:46,336
Shirley Turner
was released on bail again,
1802
01:19:46,448 --> 01:19:48,416
and we went numb again.
1803
01:19:48,517 --> 01:19:50,212
And we had to give Zachary
1804
01:19:50,318 --> 01:19:52,582
right back into the hands
of Andrew's killer!
1805
01:19:52,687 --> 01:19:54,678
"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder
1806
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:55,688
that would give concern
1807
01:19:55,791 --> 01:19:57,383
about potential harm
to the public generally."
1808
01:19:57,492 --> 01:20:00,188
Shirley's last boyfriend before
Andrew told Pennsylvania police
1809
01:20:00,295 --> 01:20:02,456
that Shirley attempted suicide
on his front doorstep
1810
01:20:02,564 --> 01:20:04,464
after he broke up with her
and had threatened to kill him.
1811
01:20:04,566 --> 01:20:06,557
"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder
1812
01:20:06,668 --> 01:20:07,566
that would give concern
1813
01:20:07,669 --> 01:20:09,034
about potential harm
to the public generally."
1814
01:20:09,137 --> 01:20:10,798
Eight people had
restraining orders against her.
1815
01:20:10,906 --> 01:20:12,897
"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder
1816
01:20:13,008 --> 01:20:13,940
that would give concern
1817
01:20:14,042 --> 01:20:15,600
about potential harm
to the public generally."
1818
01:20:15,710 --> 01:20:16,904
If anyone had bothered to check
the jail records
1819
01:20:17,012 --> 01:20:18,479
during her two-month stay,
1820
01:20:18,580 --> 01:20:20,480
the prison psychiatrist put her
on suicide watch
1821
01:20:20,582 --> 01:20:21,480
every 15 minutes,
1822
01:20:21,583 --> 01:20:22,607
she was incredibly disruptive,
1823
01:20:22,717 --> 01:20:24,116
and even threatened to stab
another inmate with a fork.
1824
01:20:24,219 --> 01:20:26,210
"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder
1825
01:20:26,321 --> 01:20:27,515
that would give concern
1826
01:20:27,622 --> 01:20:29,351
about potential harm
to the public generally,
1827
01:20:29,457 --> 01:20:32,221
as her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."
1828
01:20:32,327 --> 01:20:33,225
The man she was terrorizing
1829
01:20:33,328 --> 01:20:34,920
called the police and reported Shirley,
1830
01:20:35,030 --> 01:20:37,430
but because he didn't leave his
name, no one took any action.
1831
01:20:37,532 --> 01:20:40,023
"Her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."
1832
01:20:40,135 --> 01:20:41,568
Andrew rejected her,
and she killed him.
1833
01:20:41,670 --> 01:20:44,400
Zachary rejected her.
He paid the price, too.
1834
01:20:44,506 --> 01:20:47,270
"Her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."
1835
01:20:47,375 --> 01:20:48,706
Of course the crime was specific.
1836
01:20:48,810 --> 01:20:50,675
She didn't shoot
into a crowd of people.
1837
01:20:50,779 --> 01:20:52,872
We could not conceive
how they could let a probable
1838
01:20:52,981 --> 01:20:54,881
pre-meditated murderer...
1839
01:20:54,983 --> 01:20:59,443
probable pre-meditated murderer
walk the streets.
1840
01:20:59,554 --> 01:21:01,351
"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary
1841
01:21:01,456 --> 01:21:02,354
in the public interest."
1842
01:21:02,457 --> 01:21:03,617
Who the hell is the system protecting?
1843
01:21:03,725 --> 01:21:05,522
"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary
1844
01:21:05,627 --> 01:21:06,719
in the public interest."
1845
01:21:06,828 --> 01:21:08,955
We waited and we waited and we waited
1846
01:21:09,064 --> 01:21:13,694
for the authorities
to do their job and lock her up!
1847
01:21:13,802 --> 01:21:15,599
You got a dead body
with five holes in it,
1848
01:21:15,704 --> 01:21:17,001
and it means nothing!
1849
01:21:17,105 --> 01:21:19,300
Under an order from Justice Gale Welsh.
1850
01:21:19,407 --> 01:21:20,567
Good afternoon.
Court of Appeal.
1851
01:21:20,675 --> 01:21:22,108
Hi. May I speak to Judge Welsh,
please?
1852
01:21:22,210 --> 01:21:24,508
- Is she expecting your call?
- Probably not, no.
1853
01:21:24,613 --> 01:21:26,012
And now we've got a second dead body
1854
01:21:26,114 --> 01:21:27,376
that couldn't breathe through water.
1855
01:21:27,482 --> 01:21:29,109
I just spoke with Judge Welsh,
and she said no.
1856
01:21:29,217 --> 01:21:30,684
She said no, so I just
wanted to let you know.
1857
01:21:30,785 --> 01:21:32,343
"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary
1858
01:21:32,454 --> 01:21:33,421
in the public interest."
1859
01:21:34,756 --> 01:21:36,087
Son of a...
Son of a...
1860
01:21:50,438 --> 01:21:52,531
She had to be stopped.
1861
01:21:52,641 --> 01:21:55,166
The people who were supposed
to stop her didn't.
1862
01:21:55,277 --> 01:21:58,075
And she got to kill again.
1863
01:21:58,179 --> 01:21:59,908
And I'm gonna do my damnedest
1864
01:22:00,015 --> 01:22:03,280
to see if I can make them change
the way they deal with killers.
1865
01:22:03,385 --> 01:22:06,684
And with that, your grandma
and grandpa became activists.
1866
01:22:06,788 --> 01:22:08,153
We victims...
1867
01:22:08,256 --> 01:22:11,350
We want, number one,
the whole truth public
1868
01:22:11,459 --> 01:22:13,154
about why Zachary died.
1869
01:22:13,261 --> 01:22:15,491
They've developed a program,
a support group,
1870
01:22:15,597 --> 01:22:18,623
for people
who have had a death through,
1871
01:22:18,733 --> 01:22:19,757
you know, violent death.
1872
01:22:19,868 --> 01:22:23,827
Welcome to our first Victims
of Homicide annual vigil.
1873
01:22:23,939 --> 01:22:25,907
In this last year,
I've just taken training
1874
01:22:26,007 --> 01:22:30,603
to become a child advocate
in the dependency court system.
1875
01:22:30,712 --> 01:22:34,512
John Doucet, the psychiatrist
who posted $65,000 bail
1876
01:22:34,616 --> 01:22:35,514
for Ms. Turner,
1877
01:22:35,617 --> 01:22:38,177
was found guilty
of professional misconduct.
1878
01:22:38,286 --> 01:22:39,685
It was David Bagby and his wife
1879
01:22:39,788 --> 01:22:41,415
who launched the complaint
against Doucet.
1880
01:22:41,523 --> 01:22:43,616
The three-person panel ordered Doucet
1881
01:22:43,725 --> 01:22:45,784
to undergo psychiatric counseling.
1882
01:22:45,894 --> 01:22:47,919
There was a lot of sympathy
for David and Kate.
1883
01:22:48,029 --> 01:22:49,997
I think it got them at least a result
1884
01:22:50,098 --> 01:22:51,929
that they were hoping to accomplish.
1885
01:22:52,033 --> 01:22:52,931
Mr. Wicks,
1886
01:22:53,034 --> 01:22:54,729
Child and Youth Advocate
for Newfoundland and Labrador,
1887
01:22:54,836 --> 01:22:56,736
is doing a Child Death Review,
1888
01:22:56,838 --> 01:22:58,533
which is a formal investigation
1889
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:01,108
and the output of it
is a report saying,
1890
01:23:01,209 --> 01:23:02,733
"Here's why that baby died."
1891
01:23:02,844 --> 01:23:04,471
And recommendations for changes
1892
01:23:04,579 --> 01:23:07,377
to cut the chance
of that happening in the future.
1893
01:23:07,482 --> 01:23:09,575
Obviously, once that's done,
1894
01:23:09,684 --> 01:23:11,481
then we would like to see that go
1895
01:23:11,586 --> 01:23:13,679
to whatever legislative bodies,
1896
01:23:13,788 --> 01:23:15,847
either provincial or federal,
1897
01:23:15,957 --> 01:23:19,324
can write laws to make
these recommendations real.
1898
01:23:22,430 --> 01:23:24,898
And a report into the death
of Zachary Turner
1899
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:26,467
will be released in Newfoundland.
1900
01:23:26,568 --> 01:23:28,092
He was drowned by his mother.
1901
01:23:28,203 --> 01:23:30,000
Your grandma was
temporarily injured in a fall
1902
01:23:30,105 --> 01:23:31,003
and couldn't make the trip,
1903
01:23:31,106 --> 01:23:32,835
so your grandpa and I came alone.
1904
01:23:32,941 --> 01:23:35,967
Dr. Markesteyn conducted
an exhaustive investigation
1905
01:23:36,077 --> 01:23:37,806
over a 15-month period.
1906
01:23:37,912 --> 01:23:40,278
He reached two key conclusions.
1907
01:23:40,382 --> 01:23:42,976
One, Zachary Turner's death
was preventable.
1908
01:23:43,084 --> 01:23:45,416
And, two,
Zachary was in his mother's care
1909
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:46,487
when he should not have been.
1910
01:23:46,588 --> 01:23:49,022
The government has received
a scathing report
1911
01:23:49,124 --> 01:23:51,183
that concluded
the child-protection system
1912
01:23:51,292 --> 01:23:52,816
failed Zachary Turner.
1913
01:23:52,927 --> 01:23:56,090
A serious lack of judgment
at the senior-management level.
1914
01:23:56,197 --> 01:23:58,392
Substandard child-protection practices
1915
01:23:58,500 --> 01:23:59,762
contributed to the outcomes.
1916
01:23:59,868 --> 01:24:01,802
There are 58 recommendations
in the report.
1917
01:24:01,903 --> 01:24:03,632
I am announcing our action plan.
1918
01:24:03,738 --> 01:24:05,968
We will develop policy
specific to children
1919
01:24:06,074 --> 01:24:08,406
whose parents are charged
with a violent crime.
1920
01:24:08,510 --> 01:24:12,173
The part I was most interested
in, as I said, is bail.
1921
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:14,214
Why was Dr. Shirley Turner granted
1922
01:24:14,315 --> 01:24:17,807
judicial interim release,
commonly known as bail?
1923
01:24:17,919 --> 01:24:19,181
This is the one question
1924
01:24:19,287 --> 01:24:21,881
that Dr. Markesteyn did not
and could not answer.
1925
01:24:21,990 --> 01:24:23,252
So, that's still an open wound,
if you would.
1926
01:24:23,358 --> 01:24:24,256
May I?
1927
01:24:24,359 --> 01:24:25,519
He did say this,
1928
01:24:25,627 --> 01:24:27,754
"Had Dr. Turner
not been released on bail
1929
01:24:27,862 --> 01:24:29,693
on 12 December 2001
1930
01:24:29,798 --> 01:24:32,824
or on 10 January 2003,
1931
01:24:32,934 --> 01:24:35,368
my review would have been unnecessary.
1932
01:24:35,470 --> 01:24:37,404
Zachary would be alive today."
1933
01:24:37,505 --> 01:24:39,473
I would like to see
Parliament pass a law
1934
01:24:39,574 --> 01:24:42,202
denying bail to people accused
of murder.
1935
01:24:42,310 --> 01:24:44,039
Put them on the fast track
to get to trial
1936
01:24:44,145 --> 01:24:45,908
and get on with it,
get to the truth.
1937
01:24:46,014 --> 01:24:47,675
The only way I can see it changing
1938
01:24:47,782 --> 01:24:50,512
is for every citizen who cares
about this to tell his M.P.
1939
01:24:50,618 --> 01:24:52,586
that "This law is stupid.
Change it."
1940
01:24:52,687 --> 01:24:54,552
And, of course,
such a selfish thing to do.
1941
01:24:54,656 --> 01:24:56,180
She not only killed Andrew,
1942
01:24:56,291 --> 01:24:58,885
but she left three other
children without a mother,
1943
01:24:58,993 --> 01:25:00,722
which is very sad for them.
1944
01:25:00,829 --> 01:25:02,854
And what kind of regret
does that give you?
1945
01:25:02,964 --> 01:25:05,455
Well, if things were different,
1946
01:25:05,567 --> 01:25:07,592
I guess it's possible
he'd still be alive
1947
01:25:07,702 --> 01:25:10,967
and rather than memories
of just one year,
1948
01:25:11,072 --> 01:25:13,563
there'd be a lot of years there now.
1949
01:25:13,675 --> 01:25:16,473
- Tough losing a little brother.
- Yeah, definitely.
1950
01:25:16,578 --> 01:25:18,307
Zachary should be right here with me.
1951
01:25:18,413 --> 01:25:20,278
He should be off going to school now,
1952
01:25:20,381 --> 01:25:21,439
getting ready to go to school.
1953
01:25:21,549 --> 01:25:23,676
I am going to continue to scream
long and loud
1954
01:25:23,785 --> 01:25:29,587
about bail for someone accused
of what Shirley did to my son.
1955
01:25:41,369 --> 01:25:42,734
I'd traveled the world for years
1956
01:25:42,837 --> 01:25:44,634
looking for what was left of your dad.
1957
01:25:44,739 --> 01:25:46,104
I'd made dozens of new friends.
1958
01:25:46,207 --> 01:25:48,801
Dr. DiCuccio has made the trek
out to California.
1959
01:25:48,910 --> 01:25:50,571
But there was still one question
I couldn't answer.
1960
01:25:50,678 --> 01:25:53,078
How would I know when I was done?
1961
01:25:53,181 --> 01:25:54,842
And what was I really looking for?
1962
01:25:54,949 --> 01:25:57,816
Both as spirituality and as grief,
1963
01:25:57,919 --> 01:26:00,683
the relocation of
the other person is essential.
1964
01:26:00,788 --> 01:26:01,812
It's interesting you should ask that.
1965
01:26:01,923 --> 01:26:04,016
My first response was,
"That's not a person."
1966
01:26:04,125 --> 01:26:10,325
That is simply a mass of tissue
and protein and fat and water.
1967
01:26:10,431 --> 01:26:12,956
Something leaves a body
when death occurs.
1968
01:26:13,067 --> 01:26:14,159
What was I trying to find?
1969
01:26:14,269 --> 01:26:15,201
To resolve our grief,
1970
01:26:15,303 --> 01:26:19,399
we have to be able to accept
the reality of that loss.
1971
01:26:19,507 --> 01:26:20,565
Who's interviewing you, Kurt?
1972
01:26:20,675 --> 01:26:23,109
Get our questions answered
to the extent that they can be
1973
01:26:23,211 --> 01:26:25,475
and to basically surrender
1974
01:26:25,580 --> 01:26:28,378
to the things
that we can't have answered.
1975
01:26:28,483 --> 01:26:30,144
And how would I know when I'd found it?
1976
01:26:30,251 --> 01:26:31,912
I appreciate you doing this for him.
1977
01:26:32,020 --> 01:26:33,749
'Cause I know he talked
about you a lot.
1978
01:26:33,855 --> 01:26:36,346
- He'd talk about you.
- Really?
1979
01:26:38,026 --> 01:26:41,257
Well, then, you're not
a good moviemaker, huh?
1980
01:26:43,598 --> 01:26:45,293
'Cause that's what he always told me.
1981
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:46,332
I know he loved you.
1982
01:26:46,434 --> 01:26:49,096
And then to be able to continue to live
1983
01:26:49,204 --> 01:26:50,762
remembering the person.
1984
01:26:50,872 --> 01:26:54,205
To be able to remember their
life, not only their death.
1985
01:26:54,309 --> 01:26:55,776
No, no, no.
I can feel it.
1986
01:26:55,877 --> 01:26:58,539
It's not far off.
It's too late.
1987
01:26:58,646 --> 01:27:00,409
I didn't want to stop making
this movie.
1988
01:27:00,515 --> 01:27:02,949
That would mean I'd learned
everything there was to know
1989
01:27:03,051 --> 01:27:05,042
and finished
my one last movie with him.
1990
01:27:05,153 --> 01:27:09,556
Earl Grollman says grief is
love's unwillingness to let go.
1991
01:27:09,657 --> 01:27:11,318
He doesn't like to wave goodbye.
1992
01:27:11,426 --> 01:27:12,950
I'll miss you.
1993
01:27:15,129 --> 01:27:18,064
- Well, I'll be going.
- Bye.
1994
01:27:21,202 --> 01:27:22,931
One more time.
And action!
1995
01:27:23,037 --> 01:27:26,234
It is my brother
that got married here tonight.
1996
01:27:26,341 --> 01:27:27,865
One more time.
And action!
1997
01:27:27,976 --> 01:27:30,877
This is your Uncle Kurt.
1998
01:27:30,979 --> 01:27:32,606
One more time.
And action!
1999
01:27:37,318 --> 01:27:38,216
When the person says,
2000
01:27:38,319 --> 01:27:41,220
"Life will never be
the same again, will it?"
2001
01:27:41,322 --> 01:27:43,847
they now know where they are
2002
01:27:43,958 --> 01:27:46,188
and what's involved in moving forward.
2003
01:27:46,294 --> 01:27:49,262
There were so many stories
I wanted to tell you.
2004
01:27:49,364 --> 01:27:52,299
And somewhere I hope you're watching.
2005
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:55,528
I almost gave up making
this film when you were killed.
2006
01:27:55,637 --> 01:27:57,298
I couldn't see the point anymore.
2007
01:27:57,405 --> 01:27:59,999
But something kept me going.
2008
01:28:00,108 --> 01:28:02,599
And then one day I realized
what it was.
2009
01:28:04,445 --> 01:28:07,141
This film was no longer
a letter to you.
2010
01:28:07,248 --> 01:28:09,079
It was now a letter to someone else.
2011
01:28:09,183 --> 01:28:11,515
We thought we'd go get Andrew,
2012
01:28:11,619 --> 01:28:12,916
get everything organized,
whatever,
2013
01:28:13,021 --> 01:28:15,319
and then kill ourselves,
'cause no point in going on.
2014
01:28:15,423 --> 01:28:16,321
Everybody always says,
2015
01:28:16,424 --> 01:28:18,892
"What would be the difference
if one person weren't alive?"
2016
01:28:18,993 --> 01:28:21,461
You've still got a hell of a lot
to live for,
2017
01:28:21,562 --> 01:28:25,362
and you've still got a lot
of friends and a lot of family
2018
01:28:25,466 --> 01:28:27,696
who love you very, very much.
2019
01:28:27,802 --> 01:28:29,793
You are the most amazing and...
2020
01:28:29,904 --> 01:28:31,269
I love both of you.
2021
01:28:31,372 --> 01:28:33,738
...the strongest people
I've ever known.
2022
01:28:33,841 --> 01:28:35,365
- I love you guys.
- I love them very much.
2023
01:28:35,476 --> 01:28:37,410
- I love them very much.
- I love them very much.
2024
01:28:37,512 --> 01:28:39,639
Now, how am I gonna do this
without weeping?
2025
01:28:39,747 --> 01:28:42,443
I admire you and respect you
so much for two things.
2026
01:28:42,550 --> 01:28:44,745
One, for such a wonderful
young man that you raised.
2027
01:28:44,852 --> 01:28:47,150
It doesn't matter what happened.
They raised a wonderful man.
2028
01:28:47,255 --> 01:28:49,189
Thanks for bringing such a
wonderful person into the world.
2029
01:28:49,290 --> 01:28:52,191
You know,
Andrew contributed a lot to me
2030
01:28:52,293 --> 01:28:53,624
as far as who I am today.
2031
01:28:53,728 --> 01:28:54,922
We won't forget their son.
2032
01:28:55,029 --> 01:28:56,223
...and for having the strength
2033
01:28:56,331 --> 01:28:57,696
to make it through something like this.
2034
01:28:57,799 --> 01:29:01,462
With what you've been through,
to still be carrying on,
2035
01:29:01,569 --> 01:29:05,562
still to hold your heads up and
keep going and pushing forward
2036
01:29:05,673 --> 01:29:07,664
is amazing.
2037
01:29:07,775 --> 01:29:09,743
They've done it in such a way
that it makes you proud
2038
01:29:09,844 --> 01:29:11,311
to know them and to be related to them.
2039
01:29:11,412 --> 01:29:13,107
I think God put some people
down on Earth
2040
01:29:13,214 --> 01:29:15,512
just to be examples for the rest of us.
2041
01:29:15,616 --> 01:29:18,517
You are two very,
very special people.
2042
01:29:18,619 --> 01:29:19,881
There's a few things in my life
2043
01:29:19,987 --> 01:29:22,353
that have had an effect on me
like those two people.
2044
01:29:22,457 --> 01:29:24,152
I don't know how else.
I love them.
2045
01:29:24,258 --> 01:29:25,885
- We love you.
- Well, we love them.
2046
01:29:25,993 --> 01:29:28,393
- We're always thinking of you.
- And I think about them daily.
2047
01:29:28,496 --> 01:29:30,293
My thoughts are never far
from either of you.
2048
01:29:30,398 --> 01:29:31,865
I love them and pray for them.
2049
01:29:31,966 --> 01:29:33,263
God's blessings on them both.
2050
01:29:33,368 --> 01:29:34,699
Oh, they know I love them.
2051
01:29:34,802 --> 01:29:37,464
I feel very blessed, as I say,
to be among their friends.
2052
01:29:37,572 --> 01:29:40,905
I just thank them for being
my friends for 30-odd years.
2053
01:29:41,008 --> 01:29:43,169
We're very lucky to have them
as our neighbors
2054
01:29:43,277 --> 01:29:44,744
and our true friends.
2055
01:29:44,846 --> 01:29:46,177
God bless you guys and call me.
2056
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:50,341
And as one of Andrew's
very good friends told us
2057
01:29:50,451 --> 01:29:53,614
very soon after he was murdered,
we still have children.
2058
01:29:56,057 --> 01:29:58,457
Kurt, Matt, Chris,
on down the list.
2059
01:29:58,559 --> 01:30:00,151
I feel like I got lucky in life
2060
01:30:00,261 --> 01:30:01,956
'cause they're another set of parents.
2061
01:30:02,063 --> 01:30:03,325
Kate and David were a big reason
2062
01:30:03,431 --> 01:30:06,764
why I am the person that I am today.
2063
01:30:06,868 --> 01:30:08,096
We're all their kids.
2064
01:30:08,202 --> 01:30:09,567
I'll always be there for you guys.
2065
01:30:09,670 --> 01:30:10,830
And I love you both dearly.
2066
01:30:10,938 --> 01:30:12,098
We all love you guys so much.
2067
01:30:12,206 --> 01:30:14,231
There's really nothing
that I wouldn't do for them.
2068
01:30:14,342 --> 01:30:15,900
Do you feel better?
2069
01:30:16,010 --> 01:30:18,001
Do you feel better?
2070
01:30:19,380 --> 01:30:20,745
Yeah.
2071
01:30:22,183 --> 01:30:23,810
Yeah, you make me feel better.
2072
01:30:23,918 --> 01:30:25,408
I know that no matter what,
2073
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:29,854
you're going to find ways
to continue to help people
2074
01:30:29,957 --> 01:30:32,585
because that's the type
of people you are.
2075
01:30:32,693 --> 01:30:33,921
That's how good you are.
2076
01:30:34,028 --> 01:30:36,053
I just hope that Dave and Kate realize
2077
01:30:36,164 --> 01:30:37,256
how much he loved them,
2078
01:30:37,365 --> 01:30:39,526
because just in the short
period of time that I knew him,
2079
01:30:39,634 --> 01:30:42,194
that was the one truth
that I knew to be absolute.
2080
01:30:42,303 --> 01:30:44,396
I'm glad I wasn't a rebellious youth,
2081
01:30:44,505 --> 01:30:46,598
because it would have been
completely and utterly
2082
01:30:46,707 --> 01:30:48,470
fucking wasted on David and Kate Bagby.
2083
01:30:48,576 --> 01:30:49,668
I mean, totally.
2084
01:30:49,777 --> 01:30:53,008
I had my ear pierced for two weeks.
2085
01:30:53,114 --> 01:30:55,344
They never noticed.
2086
01:30:55,450 --> 01:30:56,576
I'm finally sitting
at the dinner table,
2087
01:30:56,684 --> 01:30:58,083
and I actually said to them,
I'm like,
2088
01:30:58,186 --> 01:30:59,676
"You know, Mom, Dad,
2089
01:30:59,787 --> 01:31:01,687
it's a good thing
I'm not looking for attention
2090
01:31:01,789 --> 01:31:03,780
because hello!"
2091
01:31:03,891 --> 01:31:05,188
And they just had a look at it,
and they're like,
2092
01:31:05,293 --> 01:31:07,193
"Oh, that's nice.
When did you get that done?"
2093
01:31:07,295 --> 01:31:11,959
And I love you,
and I know you love me and...
2094
01:31:12,066 --> 01:31:15,126
Yeah. I kind of need to move on
from that.
2095
01:31:15,236 --> 01:31:16,464
'Cause I'm a Bagby male.
2096
01:31:16,571 --> 01:31:18,232
We don't gush very much.
2097
01:33:18,233 --> 01:33:19,233
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tiny edits and formatting by rogard
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