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(wind rustling)
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(soft piano fades in)
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I came to New York to attend
NYU to study music business.
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Yeah, I was 16 years old,
um I- I turned 17 shortly thereafter,
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but when I arrived in August of 2001,
I was 16 years old.
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Of course, 9/11 happened just- I
believe my second week of classes?
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So that colors the memories,
um, of that time,
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but it was- it was overwhelming in general.
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I mean- I was on my own. Um, I-
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I went to go see Michael
Jackson on September 10th,
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and I was starting classes.
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I was responsible
for getting myself to
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classes every single
day. (laughs) You know?
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It- it was definitely overwhelming,
you know?
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I came to New York University to study
music business, and part of the reason
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that I was so interested in
music business was because, um,
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I'd been such a big fan of Michael Jackson,
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not only of his music
and his dance and all that,
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which is incredible,
but also of his business acumen
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so I came to NYU knowing
so much about publishing,
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and royalty rates,
and things like that because
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I had studied all of
his business deals.
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You know- our first week of classes,
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we had this program, um,
meeting that we would do
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which, um, they were weekly assemblies
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where everybody in our
major would get together and
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discuss things that were
happening in the industry,
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um, we would have speakers come in from,
you know,
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various record labels or NARAS,
which, you know,
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works with the Grammys and- and
different songwriters, things like that.
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It was a time to come together and
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really assess the landscape
of the music business and
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the very first program meeting,
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I was introducing myself to the group,
as a whole.
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and I don't remember if I was
running for some sort of like-
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representative position
or if I just wanted to
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introduce myself for
whatever reason? (laughs)
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But, I was wearing a Jackson's
Victory Tour T-Shirt, and it was vintage.
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I had just bought it in the village,
and a young man came up to me
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and told me that he liked my shirt and, ah…
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That young man turned
out to be Jordan Chandler.
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(melancholic orchestra music)
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(orchestra strings get louder)
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(strings soften and fade out)
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I have on the phone with me
investigative journalist, Charles Thomson,
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who is the winner of 6 national
awards for his recent, um,
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investigative work exposing
the Shoebury pedophile ring.
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So Charles,
you've sat in on a lot of pedophile cases.
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What would you say are the main differences
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between the cases that you've sat
in on and the Michael Jackson case?
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CHARLES: Of course, the first difference
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is that the cases that I've
covered were all criminal cases
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where there was was no real
financial incentive to make an allegation,
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so the motive of seeking
millions of dollars is removed.
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And then in the cases where we
see convictions that I’ve been sitting in,
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you had victims who were credible,
who were consistent,
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and that's never been the case in the
allegations against Michael Jackson.
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They've never been consistent.
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They've always turned out to be perjurers
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and people who were
just looking for a payout.
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REPORTER: Michael Jackson was one
of the most famous people on the planet.
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It turns out he was also the
target of intensive FBI scrutiny.
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DANNY: I have also read that you have
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extensively studied the
Michael Jackson FBI files.
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What were the findings of the FBI files and
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were child porn was ever
discovered at Neverland?
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CHARLES: No child porn
was ever found at Neverland.
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And in fact, there was a story that said
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child porn had been found
around the time of the trial
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So the judge and the
prosecutor both released
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a stipulation publicly which was that:
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No child pornography was
ever found at Neverland
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or at any of Michael Jackson's properties.
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So that's not just
something that the fans say.
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That's the judge in the
trial and even the prosecutor
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said that there was no child porn.
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In terms of what the FBI files tell us,
ah, what they tell us
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is that for over a decade,
the FBI was intermittently
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involved in investigating Michael Jackson.
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There's no evidence of
sustained surveillance or
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sustained investigation,
only of the authorities
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occasionally calling the FBI to assist them
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with their own investigations,
but nonetheless,
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the files tell us that more than
20 different FBI departments
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investigated Michael
Jackson at one time or another,
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and none of them found any
evidence of any wrongdoing.
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Perhaps the most
compelling piece of information
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that came out of those files was that
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when the prosecutors in
the 2003 - '05 Arvizo case
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sent away all of the computers
that they seized at Neverland
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to the FBI for analysis,
the FBI was unable to find
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anything incriminating
on a single one of them.
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So the FBI files don't
exonerate Michael Jackson,
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but they certainly don't incriminate him.
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DANNY: In 2005,
there was a study done by ABC
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with the top psychiatrists in the
country and they all concluded that
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Michael Jackson’s behavior would
be very rare amongst pedophiles.
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And there are other psychologists
and psychiatrists who echo that belief.
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(speaking German)
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DANNY: Someone who is
always trying to dispute that notion
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is a man named Jim Clemente.
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Jim Clemente, to this day,
believes that Michael Jackson
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does fit the profile of a pedophile
and that Michael Jackson
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did have child porn at Neverland.
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CLEMENTE: They found, um, images
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and I think they were of a photoshoot with
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Michael Jackson's nephew,
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Taj.
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I think he was still a teenager.
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And there's a picture
that's on the internet that I
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Um,
It's a picture of Michael. You see that?
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FEMALE VOICE: WHAT?! OH MY…. Yes, yes.
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- So there are pictures in this series
where’s he actually- he’s actually
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GRABBING their cloth
and trying to RIP it off him,
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laughing, and joking,
and trying to get him naked.
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And he's I mean,
he's virtually naked in this picture
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- This is his NEPHEW... this FORTY
something year old man - Yeah..
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And why is he posing in
a picture where Michael's
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shirt is open, exposing his chest and
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this kid's chest- I mean-
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He's basically naked!
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upper body is basically naked,
he’s got no underwear on,
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right next to Michael Jackson.
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I mean, it's disgusting.
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My name is Taj Jackson. I'm
the nephew of Michael Jackson.
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CROWD CHANTING: "3T! 3T! 3T! 3T! 3T"
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(3T- Anything) I wait for the
day when I can say that girl's mine
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Cuz I would do anything for you,
yes I would.
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I'll give you love (I'll give you love)...
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TAJ: You know,
and I know it's not gonna be put to rest,
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but I hope that it's really put to rest
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because these pictures
have been circulating.
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These pictures are annoying
that they're circulating.
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You know,
we sued one of the tabloids because they
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said that they were child pornography
and we had them retract that,
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because that's not what they
were. They were for an album.
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They were for a single cover, "Why".
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(Michael Jackson - Stranger in
Moscow) I was wandering in the rain...
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TAJ: My uncle was doing the music video for
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"Stranger in Moscow" at the time
and we came down to visit him.
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but also, we were “Let's take
this opportunity since we're all here,
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Let's do the 'Why' photoshoot as well."
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There was wardrobe. There was a
camera director. There was makeup.
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We wanted to do something
edgy for our "Why" photoshoot.
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We wanted the guys and the girls and we
and we thought we were "too cute" [laughs]
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You know a 3T like too "saccharine"
and we wanted to have some “edge”
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some- you know? Something to us.
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(3T - Why) It's not like I can't
escape what's in my soul. TAJ: It's
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frustrating because this is what
they do all the time in this way.
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Luckily I was involved in it,
you know? This was my younger brother, TJ.
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If he was here, he'd be even
probably more upset than I am right now.
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Like it's implied that TJ was clueless
or TJ didn't know what was going on.
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TJ was very aware of what was
going on. TJ wanted him to go farther!
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I was uncomfortable taking off my shirt,
and so I did have to take off my shirt.
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It was never like he said, "No, you take
off your shirt and you do this and that."
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It was whatever we wanted to
do because we wanted to be edgy.
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And it worked because
people are talking about it!
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Now, unfortunately, they're
trying to dirty it, but it was edgy.
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He mentioned that you know, Michael's
laughing in that- because we were joking!
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We, you know, for us,
we wanted to do something edgy!
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But we always laughed
when we were around my uncle
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and he laughed when he was around us,
and so
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that should tell you
something: that there was
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no tension. You're not
seeing our faces like
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"We don't want to do this" or whatever
because we were pushing him to do this.
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It really- it makes me feel angry
to be honest, um, just because
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That photo shoot was a great memory for me
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and to hear someone try
and dirty it up in that way?
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The way they're trying to twist
it as if my uncle came and said,
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"Hey, I'm just gonna start ripping off
clothes." That's farthest from the truth.
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There was plenty of people there, you know,
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that witnessed everything
that would back up
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you know- my story or my
uncle's story if he was alive.
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But at the same time this guy who
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basically is just guessing what happened
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at the photo shoot by pictures.
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What gets me upset is just people-
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outside people judging my uncle
without knowing the scenario.
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One thing I do want to say is you know,
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people like that that just,
you know, on the outside,
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And he's supposed to be a professional?
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And you hear him. He sounds giddy,
you know?
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He sounds like someone
that is just spiteful and hateful
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and it's those kind of people like-
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they need something in their
life. They really do, you know?
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Leave our family alone.
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(daunting music)
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AKON: You never done things
that was missing in your life?
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You just go back to do it,
and Mike just like to just have great fun
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and the stuff he liked to do,
adults don't like doing that.
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SCANLAN: I think he had more fun
hanging out with just everyday people
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that he didn't even know who they were,
you know?
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Either they were local
people or touristsor whatever
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and he didn't even know who they were,
you know?
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He'd just meet ‘em and talk to ‘em,
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get to know a little bit: “Hey you
wanna come out to the ranch?"
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(whimsical music)
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DANNY: You were invited to
Michael Jackson's Neverland before.
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00:13:47,983 --> 00:13:51,149
- I mean, it was amazing. I've been there,
probably 8 times.
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- 8 times?
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- Yeah! I spent the
night. The first time I ever
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went was actually the
time I spent the night.
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He walked us through his entire house, um,
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his bedroom, his memorabilia room,
bathrooms, every-
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every place in his house.
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We were like,
telling him how beautiful it was,
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and he was like,
"You've never been here before?!"
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and my friends and I
looked at each other like,
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"Nope, we sure haven't, like-
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when would we have been here?"
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You know? So he would invite-
if there were fans sitting outside,
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00:14:22,783 --> 00:14:25,983
he would, like, see us and tell Violet,
who was security,
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to let us in and he
would let us do whatever.
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- So that speaks volume to just
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how easily he trusts people
to like- come into his life, even.
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- Yeah, I mean
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00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:41,183
unfortunately, he trusted a lot of people
he shouldn't have trusted in his life.
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00:14:41,183 --> 00:14:43,183
- they go,
"oh you slept in the same bedroom as him".
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It's like I don't think you understand.
Michael Jackson's bedroom is 2 stories,
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(laughs) and it has like- like
3 bathrooms and this and that,
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so when I slept in his bedroom, yeah
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but you have to understand
the whole scenario,
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and the thing is with Michael
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is that he's not very
good at explaining himself,
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and he never really has been.
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00:14:58,616 --> 00:15:00,500
- Michael Jackson,
his bedroom was 2 stories
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00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,983
so when you first walked in, I didn't
realize at first it was his bedroom
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because his bed wasn't
there on the bottom floor.
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00:15:06,983 --> 00:15:10,899
but it was just, it was kind of-
very cluttered with a lot of things.
230
00:15:10,899 --> 00:15:14,666
I like- actually sat on his
bed and he was just kind of
231
00:15:14,666 --> 00:15:17,899
just talking about Neverland to us, and
232
00:15:17,899 --> 00:15:19,016
that was surreal. (laughs)
233
00:15:19,016 --> 00:15:22,899
(gentle music)
234
00:15:22,899 --> 00:15:27,816
Michael was going to Miami,
so myself and a couple of friends
235
00:15:27,816 --> 00:15:31,750
flew in from Europe to
spend some time with him.
236
00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:34,666
And before he had to go,
237
00:15:34,666 --> 00:15:41,100
he told us that we could stay and that we
can enjoy Neverland as much as we wanted.
238
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:45,149
While the ranch manager
took us to the main house,
239
00:15:45,149 --> 00:15:49,616
he told me that Michael had said
to give us the Royal Treatment,
240
00:15:49,616 --> 00:15:52,416
And we sure got the Royal Treatment.
241
00:15:52,416 --> 00:15:55,266
When we went up to the main house,
242
00:15:55,266 --> 00:16:00,183
all the staff were lined up
on the stairs welcoming us,
243
00:16:00,183 --> 00:16:01,583
and they told us that there-
244
00:16:01,583 --> 00:16:05,549
we could move around
as freely as we wanted to.
245
00:16:05,549 --> 00:16:08,183
There were no places that were off-limits.
246
00:16:08,783 --> 00:16:11,100
- And this was 16 years ago,
247
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,066
so it's been a while,
but I just remember like-
248
00:16:13,066 --> 00:16:14,666
being completely in shock the whole time.
249
00:16:14,666 --> 00:16:16,616
Most people are just-
250
00:16:16,616 --> 00:16:20,783
I can't believe that he let
us in his house like that.
251
00:16:21,299 --> 00:16:27,983
(somber music)
252
00:16:28,416 --> 00:16:29,350
JOSEPHINE: Several weeks later,
253
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:31,950
after we'd already come
back to classes after 9/11,
254
00:16:31,983 --> 00:16:34,899
I was working as a work-study
in the music department.
255
00:16:34,899 --> 00:16:38,049
So, he came in to register
for private guitar lessons.
256
00:16:38,049 --> 00:16:41,100
He always carried his guitar
with him everywhere he went
257
00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:43,733
and um, we had a nice conversation.
258
00:16:43,733 --> 00:16:46,333
He remembered me from our program meeting.
259
00:16:46,333 --> 00:16:49,049
We had a little chat,
exchanged pleasantries,
260
00:16:49,049 --> 00:16:50,299
and he gave me his form,
261
00:16:50,299 --> 00:16:53,733
and as I went to register
him for these private lessons,
262
00:16:53,733 --> 00:16:57,016
I saw his name for the first time,
which was Jordan Chandler.
263
00:16:57,016 --> 00:16:59,649
and I believe he told me his first name,
264
00:16:59,649 --> 00:17:01,783
but I didn't know his
last name at that point.
265
00:17:01,783 --> 00:17:05,500
And when I saw Jordan
Chandler on a piece of paper, I just-
266
00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:08,450
I couldn't quite place it then either.
267
00:17:08,450 --> 00:17:11,183
Um, it just sounded very very familiar,
268
00:17:11,183 --> 00:17:13,250
and keep in mind, at the time , um,
269
00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:15,583
Jordan Chandler's name wasn't widely known
270
00:17:15,583 --> 00:17:20,216
because in the U.S., you know,
alleged crimes of sex abuse,
271
00:17:20,216 --> 00:17:22,650
particularly when they're minors,
are very protected.
272
00:17:22,650 --> 00:17:24,705
but I went online,
and I 'Asked Jeeves'- dating
273
00:17:24,717 --> 00:17:26,783
myself- (keyboard typing
sound and mouse click)
274
00:17:26,783 --> 00:17:32,983
and um, I suddenly realized that he
was in fact the first accuser from 1993.
275
00:17:33,849 --> 00:17:39,416
(somber string instrument fade out)
276
00:17:39,616 --> 00:17:43,216
DANNY: So Evan Chandler and June Chandler,
originally June Wong,
277
00:17:43,216 --> 00:17:48,099
had a child named Jordan Chandler who
turns out to be the first alleged victim.
278
00:17:48,099 --> 00:17:52,299
June Chandler divorced Evan Chandler
and married a man named David Schwartz.
279
00:17:52,299 --> 00:17:54,700
Charles,
can you tell me about Evan Chandler?
280
00:17:55,216 --> 00:17:57,933
CHARLES: So Evan
Chandler was born in New York.
281
00:17:57,933 --> 00:18:02,933
He was actually born Evan Charmatz,
but he wanted a career as a screenwriter,
282
00:18:02,933 --> 00:18:06,933
so he moved to California and changed
his name from Charmatz to Chandler
283
00:18:06,933 --> 00:18:10,450
because he thought that
Charmatz was too Jewish-sounding.
284
00:18:10,450 --> 00:18:13,014
He became a dentist,
but he didn't really enjoy
285
00:18:13,026 --> 00:18:15,333
it and also was not
really very good at it.
286
00:18:15,333 --> 00:18:18,700
He was censured by the
regulatory board for shoddy work.
287
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,900
He was also accused at one
point of sexually assaulting
288
00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:24,700
a female patient while
he was working on her.
289
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,700
He had a very kind of a
brief career as a screenwriter.
290
00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:32,549
He got a screenwriting credit around 1993
on the film, 'Robin Hood: Men in Tights'.
291
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:35,200
("Men in Tights" plays)
292
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:41,933
We're men, we're men in tights. We
roam around the forest looking for fights.
293
00:18:42,299 --> 00:18:45,099
REPORTER: Apparently,
he was working on Mel Brooks
294
00:18:45,099 --> 00:18:47,016
when he came up with
the 'Men in Tights' idea-
295
00:18:47,016 --> 00:18:49,299
or he said his son came up
with the 'Men in Tights' idea-
296
00:18:49,299 --> 00:18:52,500
this is the same 13-year-old boy,
and apparently,
297
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:56,049
maybe Mel was under some
kind of ether or anesthetic
298
00:18:56,049 --> 00:18:57,700
but he decided it was a great idea
299
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,616
and went along with the dentist
and they put the movie together.
300
00:19:00,616 --> 00:19:03,700
I would imagine a dentist to
the stars would be exposed
301
00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:05,416
to a lot of the glamour in Hollywood.
302
00:19:05,416 --> 00:19:09,650
He can see his successful customers
talking on the phone making deals
303
00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:12,933
and it looks so easy to someone
on the outside, you know?
304
00:19:12,933 --> 00:19:16,183
And he figured he wanted to get a
little piece of the pie and get you know?
305
00:19:16,183 --> 00:19:20,299
Stop drilling teeth and maybe become a
producer and really make some big bucks.
306
00:19:20,299 --> 00:19:24,216
(ominous music)
307
00:19:24,216 --> 00:19:26,133
CHARLES: So Michael
Jackson is in Los Angeles
308
00:19:26,133 --> 00:19:28,183
with some of his team
and they're driving along
309
00:19:28,183 --> 00:19:32,383
Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly
Hills and the car breaks down.
310
00:19:32,383 --> 00:19:36,533
There's a lady in the area who sees Michael
Jackson stranded by the side of the road
311
00:19:36,533 --> 00:19:38,783
and calls her husband
who works at a business
312
00:19:38,783 --> 00:19:43,133
called Rent-A-Wreck,
which is a car rental business.
313
00:19:43,133 --> 00:19:45,616
Rent-A-Wreck is owned by Dave Schwartz.
314
00:19:45,616 --> 00:19:47,983
So Dave Schwartz calls his wife June
315
00:19:47,983 --> 00:19:53,299
because he knows that Jordan Chandler,
her son, is a massive Michael Jackson fan.
316
00:19:53,299 --> 00:19:56,583
There was one employee at Rent-A-Wreck
who said that when June arrived,
317
00:19:56,583 --> 00:20:00,216
she was kind of forcing
Jordie on Michael Jackson,
318
00:20:00,216 --> 00:20:03,016
almost like trying to
emotionally blackmail him.
319
00:20:03,016 --> 00:20:06,700
So that's how the numbers got exchanged
and they ended up staying in touch.
320
00:20:07,016 --> 00:20:09,500
DANNY: So, a friendship develops between
321
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:13,266
Michael Jackson and the Chandler family,
excluding Evan Chandler.
322
00:20:13,266 --> 00:20:17,066
During this period, Michael Jackson
would have stay-overs at their house.
323
00:20:17,066 --> 00:20:20,183
They would come over and
sleepover at Michael Jackson’s house.
324
00:20:20,183 --> 00:20:22,816
Where is Evan Chandler
during this period of time?
325
00:20:22,816 --> 00:20:25,866
CHARLES: Evan Chandler
was pretty much an absent father.
326
00:20:25,866 --> 00:20:30,266
He owed almost $70,000
in unpaid child support.
327
00:20:30,266 --> 00:20:34,616
He had been rowing with June about
how infrequently he was seeing his son.
328
00:20:34,616 --> 00:20:39,133
She was trying to get Evan to take
Jordan more often and he was refusing.
329
00:20:39,133 --> 00:20:41,900
He had his own new family, like June did.
330
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,466
He'd remarried and had
kids with another lady, and
331
00:20:44,466 --> 00:20:48,133
they were struggling to get
Evan to engage with Jordie.
332
00:20:48,133 --> 00:20:50,466
It was not until he discovered
that his son was now
333
00:20:50,466 --> 00:20:53,099
friends with Michael Jackson
that he suddenly became
334
00:20:53,099 --> 00:20:54,666
interested in seeing him again.
335
00:20:55,333 --> 00:21:04,416
FREEMAN: My recollection was that
he was not very interested in Jordie,
336
00:21:04,416 --> 00:21:08,066
prior to the time that
Jordie took up with Michael
337
00:21:08,066 --> 00:21:10,983
and as soon as Jordie took up with Michael,
338
00:21:10,983 --> 00:21:14,500
Evan became the most
interested parent in the world.
339
00:21:14,783 --> 00:21:17,216
CHARLES: They seemed
to be getting on quite well
340
00:21:17,216 --> 00:21:21,099
Evan even at one point asked him
to build an extra wing onto the house
341
00:21:21,099 --> 00:21:23,616
so he could come and stay more often
342
00:21:23,616 --> 00:21:25,266
And then when that idea didn't work,
343
00:21:25,266 --> 00:21:27,700
he said, "Well, I've got a better idea.
344
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:29,816
Why don't you just build me a new house?"
345
00:21:29,816 --> 00:21:31,666
and then that didn't happen either,
346
00:21:31,666 --> 00:21:33,816
June dropped the bombshell
that she and Jordie were
347
00:21:33,816 --> 00:21:36,383
thinking of going on tour with Michael,
348
00:21:36,383 --> 00:21:38,866
and then Evan,
who previously had been an absent father
349
00:21:38,866 --> 00:21:41,254
and wasn't paying his child support,
and wasn't
350
00:21:41,266 --> 00:21:43,416
really interested in
seeing his son at all,
351
00:21:43,416 --> 00:21:46,216
all of a sudden became
enraged about the idea that Jordan
352
00:21:46,216 --> 00:21:48,299
would be out of the
country for a few months
353
00:21:48,299 --> 00:21:50,733
and that was when the
relationship really took a
354
00:21:50,733 --> 00:21:53,333
dramatic turn towards the negative.
355
00:21:53,333 --> 00:21:57,099
What happened was Evan had
begun making strange comments and
356
00:21:57,099 --> 00:21:59,933
threats to June and Dave
and Jordan about Michael
357
00:21:59,933 --> 00:22:02,299
that he was going to make allegations.
358
00:22:02,299 --> 00:22:04,666
He was behaving so erratically,
359
00:22:04,666 --> 00:22:07,583
that they feared he was
going to do something crazy
360
00:22:07,583 --> 00:22:09,933
So the next time they
spoke to him on the phone,
361
00:22:09,933 --> 00:22:11,583
they tape recorded him.
362
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:17,266
EVAN: This man is going to
be humiliated beyond belief.
363
00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:20,116
He will not believe what
is going to happen to him,
364
00:22:20,116 --> 00:22:23,549
beyond- beyond his worst nightmares.
365
00:22:23,549 --> 00:22:25,383
He will not sell one more record.
366
00:22:25,383 --> 00:22:28,866
If I go through with this, I win big
time. I will get everything I want.
367
00:22:28,866 --> 00:22:30,716
They will be destroyed forever.
368
00:22:30,716 --> 00:22:31,864
EVAN: That's a fact,
Dave. Michael's career
369
00:22:31,876 --> 00:22:33,116
will be over. DAVE: and
does that help Jordie?
370
00:22:33,116 --> 00:22:35,116
EVAN: Michael's career will be over.
DAVE: and does that help Jordie?
371
00:22:35,116 --> 00:22:37,516
DAVE: and does that help Jordie?
EVAN: That's irrelevant to me.
372
00:22:37,733 --> 00:22:41,483
CHARLES: He's talking about how he's
furious that Michael has stop phoning him
373
00:22:41,483 --> 00:22:43,366
and stopped taking his calls,
374
00:22:43,366 --> 00:22:47,733
and how Michael has stolen his
ex-wife and torn the family apart
375
00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:50,849
and how he's plotting his revenge,
and he says that,
376
00:22:50,849 --> 00:22:55,766
"Everything is moving in accordance
with a plan that's not just mine."
377
00:22:55,766 --> 00:23:00,083
and this phone call occurred BEFORE
Jordan Chandler made any allegations
378
00:23:00,083 --> 00:23:02,766
against Michael Jackson,
and in this phone call,
379
00:23:02,766 --> 00:23:05,599
Evan Chandler alludes
to a "nasty attorney".
380
00:23:05,983 --> 00:23:08,983
EVAN: This attorney I found,
and I interviewed SEVERAL-
381
00:23:08,983 --> 00:23:12,183
and I picked the nastiest
son of a bitch I could find.
382
00:23:12,183 --> 00:23:13,583
Once I make that phone call,
383
00:23:13,583 --> 00:23:16,033
this guy's just going to
destroy everybody in sight
384
00:23:16,033 --> 00:23:19,866
in any devious, nasty,
cruel way that he can do it.
385
00:23:19,866 --> 00:23:23,333
And I've given him
full authority to do that.
386
00:23:23,333 --> 00:23:27,016
(chuckles) It will be a- a
massacre if I don't get what I want.
387
00:23:28,733 --> 00:23:31,833
CHARLES: and that attorney
turns out to be Barry Rothman.
388
00:23:31,966 --> 00:23:34,799
(somber piano music)
389
00:23:35,116 --> 00:23:37,083
My name is Geraldine Hughes.
390
00:23:37,083 --> 00:23:42,316
I was the legal secretary
in 1993 for Barry Rothman,
391
00:23:42,316 --> 00:23:47,000
who was the attorney of Evan Chandler,
the first accuser
392
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,049
that came against Michael
on child molestation.
393
00:23:51,049 --> 00:23:53,166
I was working for him, he hired me.
394
00:23:53,166 --> 00:23:55,450
When I came in for an interview one day,
395
00:23:55,450 --> 00:23:58,849
and he hired me for the
job as his legal secretary.
396
00:23:58,849 --> 00:24:01,166
I was the only legal secretary for him.
397
00:24:01,166 --> 00:24:03,500
He was really an entertainment attorney
398
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:07,166
and he had a history of
being a good negotiator
399
00:24:07,166 --> 00:24:09,133
in the entertainment field, though.
400
00:24:09,133 --> 00:24:12,900
Whenever Evan would
call Barry Rothman's office,
401
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:16,450
Barry Rothman would tell
us to put the call on hold
402
00:24:16,450 --> 00:24:18,166
and he'd walk all the
way back to his office,
403
00:24:18,166 --> 00:24:21,500
shut the door,
and that's how he took all of Evan's calls.
404
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:23,500
He was the only client he did that for.
405
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:26,966
Anybody else call,
if he was at-away from his office,
406
00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:29,566
He'd just pick up the phone and say,
"Okay.. woo woo woo"
407
00:24:29,566 --> 00:24:32,299
You know, say what he had
to say and then he'd hang up.
408
00:24:32,299 --> 00:24:33,533
But he didn't do that with Evan.
409
00:24:33,533 --> 00:24:35,733
Evan was always behind closed doors.
410
00:24:36,216 --> 00:24:38,533
CHARLES: Evan had
already retained a lawyer.
411
00:24:38,533 --> 00:24:42,166
Jordan Chandler was insisting
that Michael had never touched him.
412
00:24:42,166 --> 00:24:45,283
Anthony Pellicano,
who is Michael's private investigator,
413
00:24:45,283 --> 00:24:48,016
goes around to interview Jordan
Chandler and questions him
414
00:24:48,016 --> 00:24:52,083
for about an hour, I believe,
and asks him all sorts of questions,
415
00:24:52,083 --> 00:24:54,283
and very direct questions:
416
00:24:54,283 --> 00:24:56,933
"Have you ever seen
Michael Jackson naked?",
417
00:24:56,933 --> 00:24:59,283
"Have you ever been naked
in a bed with Michael Jackson?"
418
00:24:59,283 --> 00:25:02,966
"Has he ever touched you?",
et cetera, et cetera
419
00:25:02,966 --> 00:25:05,533
and Jordan Chandler
says "No" to everything.
420
00:25:05,533 --> 00:25:08,333
At the end of the conversation,
Jordan Chandler reiterates that
421
00:25:08,333 --> 00:25:10,683
Michael has never done
anything wrong to him,
422
00:25:10,683 --> 00:25:13,333
and says that his dad is
just trying to get money.
423
00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:17,366
(somber piano music fades out)
424
00:25:17,366 --> 00:25:20,333
(up tempo strings fade in)
425
00:25:20,483 --> 00:25:22,116
GERALDINE: It started out a custody issue.
426
00:25:22,116 --> 00:25:25,349
Evan Chandler wanted the custody of Jordie
427
00:25:25,349 --> 00:25:30,083
because in order to coerce a child
into saying something that's not true,
428
00:25:30,083 --> 00:25:31,883
you need time with that child.
429
00:25:32,116 --> 00:25:34,633
CHARLES: Evan Chandler
goes to custody court and says,
430
00:25:34,633 --> 00:25:37,200
"I want to have a week
of custody with my son,"
431
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,516
and June Chandler agrees on the basis
432
00:25:39,516 --> 00:25:41,916
that he'll be returned after 7 days.
433
00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:45,099
- And he never gave him back. He kept him.
434
00:25:45,099 --> 00:25:48,733
He never brought him back,
and during that time that he had him,
435
00:25:48,733 --> 00:25:53,183
he came into my office and he was
behind closed doors with my attorney
436
00:25:53,183 --> 00:25:55,416
the- the- Jordie Chandler was.
437
00:25:55,416 --> 00:25:58,016
I actually opened up the
door one day. I was leaving,
438
00:25:58,016 --> 00:26:00,900
and I opened up the door
and Jordie was in the back!
439
00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:03,500
And he kind of looked
a little startled when-
440
00:26:03,500 --> 00:26:05,416
Because I looked and I
saw him and I was like:
441
00:26:05,416 --> 00:26:08,616
Nobody in the office knew
that he was even there.
442
00:26:08,616 --> 00:26:11,183
You know, we're like,
"How did he even get here?"
443
00:26:11,183 --> 00:26:14,383
and I opened up the door,
so I had a few encounters
444
00:26:14,383 --> 00:26:16,783
with Jordie Chandler
coming into the office,
445
00:26:16,783 --> 00:26:19,583
and to me,
it just looked like a coaching session.
446
00:26:20,416 --> 00:26:22,333
CHARLES: While Jordan
was in Evan's custody,
447
00:26:22,333 --> 00:26:26,099
Evan sedated him with a
drug called sodium amytal.
448
00:26:26,099 --> 00:26:29,650
He did this supposedly so that he
could perform a dental procedure,
449
00:26:29,650 --> 00:26:32,099
But it's a very dubious
story that he's telling
450
00:26:32,099 --> 00:26:37,133
because there's no reason to use
sodium amytal for a dental procedure.
451
00:26:37,133 --> 00:26:42,333
He gives him this drug, which has a
reputation in the 1980s as a truth serum.
452
00:26:42,333 --> 00:26:46,333
The problem is that sodium
amytal is not a truth serum.
453
00:26:46,333 --> 00:26:50,933
In just around 1993, the evidence
was beginning to emerge that in fact
454
00:26:50,933 --> 00:26:53,733
sodium amytal was the
opposite of a truth serum.
455
00:26:53,733 --> 00:26:56,816
It made people highly suggestible.
456
00:26:56,816 --> 00:27:01,650
So, by today, by 2000s,
Psychology Today and other journals
457
00:27:01,650 --> 00:27:03,733
were saying that it was completely false
458
00:27:03,733 --> 00:27:06,583
that sodium amytal had a
reputation as a truth serum.
459
00:27:07,533 --> 00:27:11,250
- So, I'm just gonna take
a step back for everyone.
460
00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:14,816
Evan Chandler makes a
phone call to David Schwartz
461
00:27:14,816 --> 00:27:18,816
talking about how he is going to make
allegations against Michael Jackson.
462
00:27:18,816 --> 00:27:22,099
Jordan Chandler subsequently
denies all allegations.
463
00:27:22,099 --> 00:27:25,983
Evan Chandler then gets custody of
Jordan Chandler and never returns him.
464
00:27:25,983 --> 00:27:28,733
It was only supposed to be for a week,
465
00:27:28,733 --> 00:27:31,450
and during this period that Evan
Chandler had Jordan Chandler,
466
00:27:31,450 --> 00:27:33,849
there were numerous unethical methods
467
00:27:33,849 --> 00:27:36,416
that we know of being used against Jordan,
468
00:27:36,416 --> 00:27:39,816
notably the use of sodium amytal
and the one on one coaching
469
00:27:39,816 --> 00:27:42,816
between Jordan Chandler and Barry Rothman.
470
00:27:42,816 --> 00:27:46,133
So by the end of Jordan's stay,
he changes his story.
471
00:27:46,133 --> 00:27:48,333
He went into Evan's custody saying that
472
00:27:48,333 --> 00:27:51,983
he wasn't abused by Michael
Jackson to now claiming that,
473
00:27:51,983 --> 00:27:54,650
"Yes, in fact, I had been abused."
474
00:27:54,650 --> 00:27:59,816
So Charles with this new shocking
statement by Jordan Chandler,
475
00:27:59,816 --> 00:28:02,500
what are Evan Chandler's next moves?
476
00:28:03,616 --> 00:28:05,650
CHARLES: So after Jordan changes his story,
477
00:28:05,650 --> 00:28:07,533
Evan,
instead of going straight to the police-
478
00:28:07,533 --> 00:28:10,250
as you'd expect a parent to do if their
child has just said that they've been
479
00:28:10,250 --> 00:28:12,816
that they'd been sexually
abused by someone,
480
00:28:12,816 --> 00:28:15,500
goes directly to Michael
Jackson and his legal team
481
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:18,216
and starts demanding $20 million.
482
00:28:18,616 --> 00:28:21,650
- But Evan had a desire to be a filmmaker.
483
00:28:21,650 --> 00:28:24,299
He was trying to get the
money so he can make a movie.
484
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:27,049
CHARLES: So when Evan
meets Michael to confront him
485
00:28:27,049 --> 00:28:29,416
and demand the money,
there were witnesses in the room
486
00:28:29,416 --> 00:28:31,733
who said that he threw
his arms around Michael
487
00:28:31,733 --> 00:28:34,216
and greeted him with a hug,
like an old friend.
488
00:28:34,466 --> 00:28:39,900
FIELDS: I was seated in our big
conference room next to Michael
489
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:44,783
and the father came into
the room and saw Michael
490
00:28:44,783 --> 00:28:48,349
and went quickly across
the room and hugged him and
491
00:28:48,349 --> 00:28:51,583
said, "Michael,
it's been so long since I've seen you."
492
00:28:51,583 --> 00:28:54,666
which was just... flabbergasting!
493
00:28:54,666 --> 00:28:57,700
because here's a- (chuckles)
here's a father claiming
494
00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:00,983
that this man had abused his son sexually
495
00:29:00,983 --> 00:29:03,216
and rushes across the room to hug him?
496
00:29:03,216 --> 00:29:04,616
Impossible!
497
00:29:04,833 --> 00:29:08,000
CHARLES: Evan's lawyer gets in touch
with Michael Jackson's camp and says,
498
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,216
“$20 million and nobody will
ever hear about these allegations."
499
00:29:12,216 --> 00:29:14,801
But Michael Jackson
is adamant that he is
500
00:29:14,813 --> 00:29:17,533
NOT going to give Evan
Chandler $20 million.
501
00:29:17,533 --> 00:29:20,933
The counter offer which comes
back from Michael Jackson's camp
502
00:29:20,933 --> 00:29:26,099
is a deal for 3 scripts and they say,
"You'll be paid $350,000 per script."
503
00:29:26,816 --> 00:29:29,549
- He said,
"I'll contribute that to your film project,
504
00:29:29,549 --> 00:29:32,466
just to give you and your
son a chance to bond,
505
00:29:32,466 --> 00:29:35,433
to mend, because at that time,
Evan was saying,
506
00:29:35,433 --> 00:29:37,500
"He's stolen my son's affection."
507
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:39,799
He put that in the paperwork. He said,
508
00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:42,866
"My son is being
starstruck by this superstar.
509
00:29:42,866 --> 00:29:45,266
He's stolen my friends affection".
510
00:29:45,266 --> 00:29:46,916
and so Michael just simply said,
511
00:29:46,916 --> 00:29:50,083
CHARLES: "This would be a great
opportunity for you and Jordan to reconnect
512
00:29:50,083 --> 00:29:52,500
because you'll be able
to write them together."
513
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,000
Rothman comes back and says,
"That's nowhere near what we're asking for.
514
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,500
That's less than $2 million,
you know? We're not going for that."
515
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:03,133
Michael's camp then makes
another offer which is for a
516
00:30:03,133 --> 00:30:06,783
single script paid at $350,000-
517
00:30:06,783 --> 00:30:09,533
a third of what they'd initially offered.
518
00:30:09,533 --> 00:30:12,383
Barry Rothman is shocked by the low figure.
519
00:30:12,383 --> 00:30:15,183
In response to that,
Evan panics and starts trying
520
00:30:15,183 --> 00:30:17,916
to go back to the million dollar deal, and
521
00:30:17,916 --> 00:30:20,016
Anthony Pellicano comes back and says,
522
00:30:20,016 --> 00:30:21,633
"That's never going to happen."
523
00:30:21,633 --> 00:30:26,833
PELLICANO: Let me ask you for the last
time: he has rejected the deal, period?
524
00:30:26,833 --> 00:30:28,500
ROTHMAN: For one project? Yes.
525
00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:31,599
PELLICANO: OK, so then there is no deal.
ROTHMAN: Right!
526
00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:33,683
- Remember? I said take it or leave it-
- Bingo! Bingo!
527
00:30:33,683 --> 00:30:36,033
- OK. Then we don't have to
have a discussion about this again.
528
00:30:36,033 --> 00:30:37,200
- OK
- Alright.
529
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,916
- That's where it's at.
530
00:30:38,916 --> 00:30:42,433
- I've already told you that we think this
is an extortion attempt from the beginning.
531
00:30:42,433 --> 00:30:43,255
Well you can say that!
532
00:30:43,267 --> 00:30:45,316
I've already made those
statements time and time again.
533
00:30:45,316 --> 00:30:47,233
- You can say that, Anthony. I understand!
534
00:30:47,233 --> 00:30:51,116
but it fell apart because you
offered 3 and then recanted on it.
535
00:30:51,883 --> 00:30:54,950
CHARLES: Meanwhile, the custody
situation happens between Evan and June.
536
00:30:55,433 --> 00:30:59,683
GERALDINE: but what happened
was June filed an ex parte motion
537
00:30:59,683 --> 00:31:04,233
An ex parte motion means:
show up in court the next day.
538
00:31:04,233 --> 00:31:06,150
She was trying to get him back now,
539
00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:10,599
and so we typed a little declaration,
and they went to court.
540
00:31:10,599 --> 00:31:13,316
The went to court on the ex parte, but see,
541
00:31:13,316 --> 00:31:17,716
he had been negotiating
with Michael for a whole month
542
00:31:17,716 --> 00:31:20,883
for the $20 million to make the movie.
543
00:31:20,883 --> 00:31:26,349
He goes to court on a hearing
for the custody, a family law judge,
544
00:31:26,349 --> 00:31:30,000
he said nothing to that
judge about his "suspicion"
545
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,233
or "my child is- I think my child is...",
you know being molested.
546
00:31:33,233 --> 00:31:35,528
He didn't say
anything. So the judge
547
00:31:35,540 --> 00:31:38,283
ordered him to return
Jordie back instantly.
548
00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:40,833
CHARLES: And in order to maintain custody,
549
00:31:40,833 --> 00:31:44,116
Evan has to go to the psychiatrist
and have Jordie disclose.
550
00:31:44,599 --> 00:31:46,716
- I can promise you 3 days later
551
00:31:46,716 --> 00:31:49,033
is when we got the breaking news,
552
00:31:49,033 --> 00:31:50,549
so he never took him back.
553
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:56,150
He took him to the doctor that he
had already queried about molestation.
554
00:31:56,433 --> 00:31:57,950
CHARLES: He sort of acts out of haste
555
00:31:57,950 --> 00:31:59,950
and goes and triggers
the criminal proceedings
556
00:31:59,950 --> 00:32:03,233
as a knee-jerk reaction
to the custody situation
557
00:32:03,233 --> 00:32:07,599
and then that means he loses control of
the situation and the negotiations cease
558
00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:09,599
because the police are now involved.
559
00:32:10,150 --> 00:32:27,666
(tense music)
560
00:32:29,266 --> 00:32:32,516
ANNOUNCER: This NBC
Nightly News with Tom Brokaw.
561
00:32:33,549 --> 00:32:34,516
BROKAW: Good evening.
562
00:32:34,516 --> 00:32:36,633
Michael Jackson is in
Bangkok Thailand tonight,
563
00:32:36,633 --> 00:32:38,750
where he has now postponed 2 concerts,
564
00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:42,033
claiming that he is ill.
While back in Los Angeles,
565
00:32:42,033 --> 00:32:43,750
there's a press frenzy over
566
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:45,599
investigations into child abuse by Jackson.
567
00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:48,549
- ..remains the Children's
Services report detailing
568
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:51,116
the charges by a thirteen-year-old boy.
569
00:32:51,116 --> 00:32:53,200
- CBS News has had access to..
570
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,400
CHARLES: The media went into a frenzy
571
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,633
because after the Michael
Jackson case kicked in,
572
00:32:56,633 --> 00:32:59,599
basically their ratings
went through the roof.
573
00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:02,066
It was astronomical the
difference that this story made
574
00:33:02,066 --> 00:33:03,466
to the ratings of shows like
575
00:33:03,466 --> 00:33:05,033
"Hard Copy" and "A Current Affair".
576
00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:07,799
- I cannot think of a story that's bigger
577
00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:09,799
I mean, this is the story-
if not of the decade, well
578
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:13,716
certainly of the decade,
but probably of the-
579
00:33:13,716 --> 00:33:15,516
One of the great stories of the century!
580
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,866
CHARLES: This was an era with no internet
581
00:33:17,866 --> 00:33:20,666
and no social media,
and so there was a real thirst
582
00:33:20,666 --> 00:33:22,716
for knowledge about Michael
Jackson because he was
583
00:33:22,716 --> 00:33:25,400
the biggest,
most famous person in the world, but
584
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,433
people really knew
basically nothing about him.
585
00:33:28,433 --> 00:33:31,266
There was a need to keep
the story going every day
586
00:33:31,266 --> 00:33:33,349
They needed new Michael Jackson stories
587
00:33:33,349 --> 00:33:36,233
because that was where
the ratings were coming from,
588
00:33:36,233 --> 00:33:39,116
so the impetus was there
for journalists to seize on
589
00:33:39,116 --> 00:33:41,233
anything- anything that came up,
590
00:33:41,233 --> 00:33:44,599
anything that looked like a
scoop or a scandal, or looked
591
00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:47,516
like it might bag them ratings,
they just ran with it.
592
00:33:48,150 --> 00:33:49,233
REPORTER: We will fly stories.
593
00:33:49,233 --> 00:33:53,200
We will take a shred of
fact and go with it, like a
594
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,200
great footballer with a ball.
We will spin down the field
595
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,266
with that and try and score a goal with it,
and
596
00:33:58,266 --> 00:34:01,266
maybe we will, maybe we won't,
but we'll take a shred
597
00:34:01,266 --> 00:34:03,316
of evidence and try and
try to turn it into a story.
598
00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:06,833
("In the Hall of the Mountain King" plays)
599
00:34:07,266 --> 00:34:09,716
MICHAEL: I will say
that I am particularly upset
600
00:34:09,716 --> 00:34:12,666
by the handling of this mass matter
601
00:34:12,666 --> 00:34:15,516
by the incredible, terrible mass media
602
00:34:17,966 --> 00:34:19,133
At every opportunity,
603
00:34:19,133 --> 00:34:21,816
the media has dissected and manipulated
604
00:34:21,816 --> 00:34:26,616
these allegations to reach
their own conclusions.
605
00:34:26,616 --> 00:34:29,766
I ask all of you to wait and hear the truth
606
00:34:29,766 --> 00:34:31,650
before you label or condemn me.
607
00:34:31,650 --> 00:34:34,416
Don't treat me like a criminal,
as I am innocent.
608
00:34:36,133 --> 00:34:37,333
- When you buy a story,
609
00:34:37,333 --> 00:34:38,849
there's always the shadow of doubt that
610
00:34:38,849 --> 00:34:40,500
are they telling you the truth
611
00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:42,216
or are they telling you
what you want to hear?
612
00:34:42,416 --> 00:34:43,766
CHARLES: They started waving around
613
00:34:43,766 --> 00:34:44,733
10,000
614
00:34:44,733 --> 00:34:46,050
20,000
615
00:34:46,050 --> 00:34:47,099
50,000
616
00:34:47,099 --> 00:34:50,900
$100,000 to anybody
that was prepared to say,
617
00:34:50,900 --> 00:34:52,250
"I have met Michael Jackson
618
00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:54,500
and I've got something
bad to say about him".
619
00:34:54,733 --> 00:34:57,133
- Yeah, a friend of mine
told National Enquirer that
620
00:34:57,133 --> 00:34:59,650
he knew some family that knew the Jacksons
621
00:34:59,650 --> 00:35:02,216
and he called me on the phone,
asked me to come to the hotel.
622
00:35:02,216 --> 00:35:04,300
I said, "I'm here to help Michael,"
and they said,
623
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:06,966
"Oh, no, that ain't what we want with you-
624
00:35:06,966 --> 00:35:09,900
We heard that your boys
spent nights at the house.
625
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:11,416
We want to know if Michael
tampered with them, or
626
00:35:11,416 --> 00:35:14,500
just picked them up,
or touched them in any kind of way.
627
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,250
If he did we got $200,000 for you".
628
00:35:17,250 --> 00:35:19,533
I said, "huh?"- He said,
"So what I'm gonna do-
629
00:35:19,533 --> 00:35:21,766
I'm gonna draw a check up, a contract up.
630
00:35:21,766 --> 00:35:23,533
show you we're fixing
to give you $200,000".
631
00:35:24,250 --> 00:35:25,566
- So then you go to Germany,
632
00:35:25,566 --> 00:35:27,533
you get another 20,000.
633
00:35:27,533 --> 00:35:29,050
You go to Italy, another 20,000.
634
00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:30,849
Before you know it, you're up a hundred
635
00:35:30,849 --> 00:35:33,166
a hundred,
two hundred thousand dollars, and
636
00:35:33,166 --> 00:35:36,099
that is enough for a family
to come forward and talk.
637
00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:37,650
CHARLES: It happened repeatedly
638
00:35:37,650 --> 00:35:40,533
where people of dubious
character were treated as
639
00:35:40,533 --> 00:35:44,016
credible sources when
anybody with just an iota of
640
00:35:44,016 --> 00:35:46,816
investigative savvy would
know that these are not
641
00:35:46,816 --> 00:35:49,650
people you want to be
staking your reputation on.
642
00:35:49,650 --> 00:35:51,766
They were people who changed their stories
643
00:35:51,766 --> 00:35:53,699
depending on how much
money you offered them.
644
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,500
BROKER: The first time I heard
the story about, um, Jackson,
645
00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:01,016
his hand was outside the kid's pants.
646
00:36:01,016 --> 00:36:03,016
They were asking 100 grand.
647
00:36:03,016 --> 00:36:05,849
As soon as their price
went up to 500 grand,
648
00:36:05,849 --> 00:36:09,250
the hand went inside the pants,
so, come on.
649
00:36:15,533 --> 00:36:18,216
REPORTER: But basically,
LaToya you're drawing your own conclusion
650
00:36:18,216 --> 00:36:21,933
that Michael abused young men, young boys
651
00:36:21,933 --> 00:36:23,816
- No,
I'm not drawing my own conclusion that
652
00:36:23,816 --> 00:36:25,816
he abused young boys. That's totally-
653
00:36:25,816 --> 00:36:28,250
That's totally wrong. I am not
drawing my own conclusion.
654
00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:30,016
CHARLES: LaToya Jackson at the time
655
00:36:30,016 --> 00:36:31,733
was married to a man called Jack Gordon
656
00:36:31,733 --> 00:36:34,616
who was involved with Genovese Mafia.
657
00:36:34,616 --> 00:36:36,366
He was a very disturbed character.
658
00:36:36,366 --> 00:36:38,699
He was very violent and abusive.
659
00:36:38,699 --> 00:36:40,666
He pimped LaToya out like a prostitute.
660
00:36:40,666 --> 00:36:45,133
He forced her to do semi pornographic
magazine shoots- that kind of thing.
661
00:36:45,133 --> 00:36:48,900
and if she disagreed with him or
refused to do anything that he told her to,
662
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:50,666
then he would either beat her
663
00:36:50,666 --> 00:36:53,783
or he threaten to have
members of her family killed.
664
00:36:54,183 --> 00:36:56,513
This went on for many,
many, many years.
665
00:36:56,525 --> 00:36:59,466
He literally said I'm gonna kill you,
your brother,
666
00:36:59,466 --> 00:37:00,783
- Everybody?
- Yes.
667
00:37:00,783 --> 00:37:04,066
No, not everybody, just myself,
Michael and Janet.
668
00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:05,666
CHARLES: This is not some excuse which
669
00:37:05,666 --> 00:37:07,616
has been dreamed up subsequently,
670
00:37:07,616 --> 00:37:09,466
this was known and reported at the time.
671
00:37:10,266 --> 00:37:11,383
- He grabbed a bedspread,
672
00:37:11,383 --> 00:37:14,333
he put it over her head,
started to strangle her with it.
673
00:37:14,333 --> 00:37:16,616
At the same time, he grabbed her arm
674
00:37:16,616 --> 00:37:19,866
and started to twist it so badly that
she felt like it was gonna come out.
675
00:37:20,383 --> 00:37:22,416
CHARLES: And so all of a sudden, LaToya,
676
00:37:22,416 --> 00:37:25,383
who'd been previously
speaking out in favor of Michael
677
00:37:25,383 --> 00:37:27,900
suddenly u-turned
started selling interviews
678
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:30,983
claiming that her
brother in fact was guilty.
679
00:37:30,983 --> 00:37:35,300
In early 1994,
LaToya appeared on an Australian TV show
680
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:37,707
and the host of the
show realized that there
681
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,816
was something wrong
with the situation.
682
00:37:39,816 --> 00:37:42,466
He realized that all of the
answers LaToya was giving
683
00:37:42,466 --> 00:37:45,099
were being fed to her
by somebody else who he
684
00:37:45,099 --> 00:37:48,416
identified on the show as her husband,
Jack Gordon.
685
00:37:49,266 --> 00:37:50,533
Well, Miss Jackson carried on with
686
00:37:50,533 --> 00:37:52,616
that nonsense for about another 25 minutes,
687
00:37:52,616 --> 00:37:55,300
all the time being prompted
by someone in the studio,
688
00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:57,583
but off-camera,
presumably her husband manager
689
00:37:57,583 --> 00:37:58,300
Jack Gordon.
690
00:37:58,583 --> 00:38:00,416
- People like you will let this go on
691
00:38:00,416 --> 00:38:01,300
and it's very very wrong.
- Who's talking to you in the background?
692
00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:02,333
- Who's talking to you in the background?
693
00:38:02,333 --> 00:38:04,616
- So I... I... I refuse to sit
here and listen to you - Who's...
694
00:38:04,616 --> 00:38:06,492
and listen to you talk
this way. I think it's wrong
695
00:38:06,504 --> 00:38:08,500
of you. [Host] Who's talking
to you in the background?
696
00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:10,416
- So I have nothing else
to save you whatsoever.
697
00:38:10,933 --> 00:38:13,016
CHARLES: And when he
questioned her about it on the air,
698
00:38:13,016 --> 00:38:15,383
she just looked like a
deer in the headlights
699
00:38:15,383 --> 00:38:17,300
and suddenly stood up
and stormed off the show
700
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:18,699
and wouldn't answer any more questions.
701
00:38:18,983 --> 00:38:20,699
LATOYA: I can't hear you
but I definitely want you to hear
702
00:38:20,699 --> 00:38:22,933
what I'm saying,
because you do have a serious
703
00:38:22,933 --> 00:38:24,616
problem, sir. Whatever it is, I don't know,
704
00:38:24,616 --> 00:38:26,900
but you do need to go
see a psychiatrist. Goodbye.
705
00:38:27,266 --> 00:38:29,866
CHARLES: Her husband decided that
706
00:38:29,866 --> 00:38:32,866
there was a lot of money to be made from
707
00:38:32,866 --> 00:38:35,300
switching sides and saying
that Michael was guilty
708
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:36,500
and indeed, there was.
709
00:38:37,383 --> 00:38:38,816
HOST: I'm sorry, are you feeling OK?
710
00:38:38,816 --> 00:38:41,066
Are you alright? Are you alright?
711
00:38:41,066 --> 00:38:43,066
Do you need a handkerchief
or something like that?
712
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:46,616
- After the allegation hit, they-
713
00:38:46,616 --> 00:38:49,566
prior to that, they were on opposite ends
714
00:38:49,566 --> 00:38:52,633
because June never did
agree with the allegation
715
00:38:52,633 --> 00:38:54,699
But after the allegation hit,
716
00:38:54,699 --> 00:38:56,216
they were meeting in my attorney
717
00:38:56,216 --> 00:39:00,099
David Schwartz,
June Chandler, Evan Chandler,
718
00:39:00,099 --> 00:39:01,233
and my attorney.
719
00:39:01,233 --> 00:39:03,349
They were all meeting behind closed doors
720
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:05,250
in my attorney's office.
721
00:39:05,250 --> 00:39:08,800
- I decided to drop the case ‘cause
722
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,116
I, at that time, as an attorney
723
00:39:12,116 --> 00:39:17,650
did not like to be involved in
cases that I didn't believe in.
724
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,483
GERALDINE: And I heard Evan blurt out,
he said,
725
00:39:21,483 --> 00:39:25,150
'It's my ass that's in danger
of going to prison right here!'
726
00:39:25,150 --> 00:39:26,483
Inside the law office,
727
00:39:26,483 --> 00:39:28,683
the only thing they were
asking for was money.
728
00:39:28,683 --> 00:39:30,083
"Where's his money? How much?"
729
00:39:30,083 --> 00:39:32,150
They were sending discovery in
730
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:35,033
and the discovery was
only trying to find his money.
731
00:39:35,033 --> 00:39:36,483
That was crazy too. I'm like,
732
00:39:36,483 --> 00:39:38,433
"Y'all just looking for money?
733
00:39:38,433 --> 00:39:40,550
You're not looking for justice?
734
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:42,199
You're only looking for money?"
735
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:49,199
(soft piano music fades out)
736
00:39:50,433 --> 00:39:52,433
JOSEPHINE: I mean, my mind EXPLODED
737
00:39:52,433 --> 00:39:54,400
when I- I found out who he was and I-
738
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,316
I definitely told some
people who were close to me
739
00:39:57,316 --> 00:40:01,633
I didn't confront him though,
because at that point in time, you know-
740
00:40:01,633 --> 00:40:03,400
I knew that I believed
Michael was innocent,
741
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,116
but the fact that matter
is I didn't know 100%
742
00:40:06,116 --> 00:40:09,033
and if there was even
like- one shred of doubt,
743
00:40:09,033 --> 00:40:13,550
I didn't want to risk re-traumatizing
somebody who was potentially a victim.
744
00:40:13,550 --> 00:40:17,033
And remember, at that point in time,
Jordan Chandler was the only accuser
745
00:40:17,033 --> 00:40:19,199
and the media certainly
wasn't focused on it.
746
00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:23,116
They were more focused on you know,
Michael Jackson's new album release
747
00:40:23,116 --> 00:40:26,833
and um, you know,
it wasn't all flattering but you know,
748
00:40:26,833 --> 00:40:29,433
it seemed like this- this was,
you know, water under the bridge
749
00:40:29,433 --> 00:40:31,750
and something that didn't
need to be addressed.
750
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:33,949
He was a nice guy, I mean,
I'm gonna be honest.
751
00:40:33,949 --> 00:40:36,800
He was he was very nice,
always very polite.
752
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,883
He would always carry
a guitar around with him.
753
00:40:38,883 --> 00:40:40,599
He made his own music.
754
00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:44,516
He would describe it as
"Pop/R&B like Michael Jackson".
755
00:40:44,516 --> 00:40:47,550
I remember that because he
said it many times, very clearly.
756
00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:50,316
He would wear fedoras. Um..
757
00:40:50,316 --> 00:40:52,116
Yeah, that was- that was Jordan.
758
00:40:53,283 --> 00:40:58,633
(sad somber music)
759
00:40:59,233 --> 00:41:02,199
REPORTER: What were your
determinations when you examined him?
760
00:41:02,199 --> 00:41:05,000
- He seemed to
essentially be a healthy guy.
761
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,400
The lupus is an autoimmune disease
and he only had skin involvement,
762
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,083
which had destroyed part
of the skin of his nose and
763
00:41:12,083 --> 00:41:18,116
his nasal surgeries and all were really
reconstructive to try and look normal.
764
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,083
- Lupus is an autoimmune disease,
as you've said,
765
00:41:21,083 --> 00:41:23,233
where the immune system,
one of our larger systems
766
00:41:23,233 --> 00:41:26,516
that's designed to protect
us against germs and viruses,
767
00:41:26,516 --> 00:41:30,716
actually attacks our own
body's cells and tissues.
768
00:41:30,716 --> 00:41:35,000
Many patients with lupus have vitiligo,
but he had a form of skin lupus
769
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,716
called discoid lupus which affects
about 40% of the patients with lupus,
770
00:41:39,716 --> 00:41:41,400
and you do get depigmentation.
771
00:41:45,116 --> 00:41:48,633
CHARLES: Michael Jackson suffered
from a skin disease called vitiligo.
772
00:41:48,633 --> 00:41:52,349
He was accused throughout his
career for decades by the media
773
00:41:52,349 --> 00:41:55,349
of deliberately bleaching
his skin from brown to white
774
00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:57,883
because they said that he hated his race.
775
00:41:58,316 --> 00:42:00,599
- Is your skin lighter because
you don't like being black?
776
00:42:00,916 --> 00:42:04,283
CHARLES: He insisted throughout his life
that he in fact suffered from vitiligo.
777
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:09,199
- I have a skin disorder that
destroys the pigmentation of the skin.
778
00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:10,599
It's something that I cannot help.
779
00:42:10,916 --> 00:42:12,349
CHARLES: and then when he passed away,
780
00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:17,400
his autopsy report confirmed that
he did indeed suffer from vitiligo.
781
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,750
Vitiligo is a disease which
attacks the pigment in the skin
782
00:42:20,750 --> 00:42:24,550
and what it does is it turns
your skin a very pale white color-
783
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:29,199
almost translucent,
and it makes it very sensitive to the sun.
784
00:42:29,199 --> 00:42:31,550
So it's a very debilitating condition.
785
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:33,800
- One thing you say to lupus patients:
786
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,316
Don't let the sun hit your skin.
787
00:42:35,316 --> 00:42:37,750
- That's right, ultraviolet light.
- So that umbrella, which he'd
788
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:39,176
carry out in the sun
may have been just that?
789
00:42:39,188 --> 00:42:40,000
That's exactly correct.
790
00:42:41,716 --> 00:42:44,599
CHARLES: So what it
does is it doesn't you know,
791
00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:47,683
turn you from brown to white all in one go,
of course.
792
00:42:47,683 --> 00:42:50,116
It happens in tiny increments
793
00:42:50,116 --> 00:42:52,550
and it happens at different
speeds all over your body
794
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:55,316
so it can leave you looking almost like a
795
00:42:55,316 --> 00:42:57,050
paint splatter or blood splatter.
796
00:42:57,050 --> 00:42:58,683
It's very random.
797
00:43:01,883 --> 00:43:05,483
DOCTOR: It's very interesting.
It affects the neck, the face,
798
00:43:05,483 --> 00:43:08,366
the- the upper part of the wrists,
and the groin.
799
00:43:08,916 --> 00:43:10,766
CHARLES: So the allegation by Evan Chandler
800
00:43:10,766 --> 00:43:13,966
was that his son could
accurately describe discoloration
801
00:43:13,966 --> 00:43:18,766
on Michael Jackson's genitals
which had been caused by vitiligo.
802
00:43:18,766 --> 00:43:21,316
They seek and obtain a
warrant which allows them to
803
00:43:21,316 --> 00:43:25,283
force Michael Jackson to submit
to a naked photoshoot by the police.
804
00:43:26,183 --> 00:43:28,016
- I have been forced to submit
805
00:43:28,016 --> 00:43:31,966
to a dehumanizing and
humiliating examination
806
00:43:31,966 --> 00:43:34,933
by the Santa Barbara County
Sheriff's Department and the
807
00:43:34,933 --> 00:43:37,566
Los Angeles Police
Department earlier this week.
808
00:43:37,566 --> 00:43:39,982
They served a search
warrant on me which
809
00:43:39,994 --> 00:43:42,599
allowed them to view
and photograph my body,
810
00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:47,750
including my penis, my buttocks,
my lower torso, thighs,
811
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:51,266
and any other error that they wanted.
812
00:43:51,266 --> 00:43:53,550
They were supposedly
looking for any discoloration:
813
00:43:53,550 --> 00:43:57,599
spotting, blotches,
or other evidence of a skin color disorder,
814
00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:01,633
called 'vitiligo',
which I have previously spoken about.
815
00:44:01,633 --> 00:44:05,516
The warrant also directed me
to cooperate in any examination
816
00:44:05,516 --> 00:44:09,650
of my body by their physician to
determine the condition of my skin
817
00:44:09,650 --> 00:44:13,916
including whether I have
vitiligo or any other skin disorder.
818
00:44:13,916 --> 00:44:16,494
The warrant further
stated that I had no right
819
00:44:16,506 --> 00:44:18,766
to refuse the examination
or photographs,
820
00:44:18,766 --> 00:44:23,233
and if I failed to cooperate with them,
they would introduce that refusal
821
00:44:23,233 --> 00:44:27,233
at any trial as an indication of my guilt.
822
00:44:27,233 --> 00:44:30,083
It was the most
humiliating ordeal of my life-
823
00:44:30,083 --> 00:44:31,883
(deep breath)
824
00:44:31,883 --> 00:44:34,916
One that no person
should ever have to suffer,
825
00:44:34,916 --> 00:44:38,283
and even after experiencing the indignity-
826
00:44:38,283 --> 00:44:40,316
of this search,
827
00:44:40,316 --> 00:44:43,283
the parties involved
were still not satisfied,
828
00:44:43,283 --> 00:44:46,116
and wanted to take even more pictures.
829
00:44:46,116 --> 00:44:48,116
It was a nightmare,
830
00:44:48,116 --> 00:44:50,433
a horrifying nightmare, but if this is what
831
00:44:50,433 --> 00:44:53,683
I have to endure to prove my innocence,
832
00:44:53,683 --> 00:44:56,083
my complete innocence,
833
00:44:56,083 --> 00:44:56,966
so be it.
834
00:44:57,266 --> 00:44:59,633
CHARLES: There's a book by
Evan Chandler's brother, Ray,
835
00:44:59,633 --> 00:45:03,666
where he quotes Evan as having a
discussion with his lawyer, Larry Feldman
836
00:45:03,666 --> 00:45:06,800
And they're talking
about the vitiligo situation.
837
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,550
The DA's office has told the
Chandler's that Michael has
838
00:45:09,550 --> 00:45:13,033
a skin condition called vitiligo
and that the skin condition
839
00:45:13,033 --> 00:45:15,550
can constantly change
the way that your body looks
840
00:45:15,550 --> 00:45:18,633
because it's constantly
attacking the pigment, and so,
841
00:45:18,633 --> 00:45:20,866
the District Attorney has
told the Chandler's that this is
842
00:45:20,866 --> 00:45:23,949
great for them because if
Jordan Chandler's description
843
00:45:23,949 --> 00:45:25,833
matches, then it matches!
844
00:45:25,833 --> 00:45:28,000
But if it doesn't match,
then they can just say,
845
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,466
"Oh, well, that's because of the vitiligo".
846
00:45:30,466 --> 00:45:33,750
So Larry Feldman says,
"Either way, we win!"
847
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,716
- So after they searched
Michael Jackson's body,
848
00:45:38,716 --> 00:45:41,866
No arrest warrant was issued. Charles,
849
00:45:41,866 --> 00:45:45,266
what were the initial reports
about this body search?
850
00:45:46,316 --> 00:45:49,633
CHARLES: In early 1994,
law enforcement sources told
851
00:45:49,633 --> 00:45:54,066
2 different media outlets:
Reuters and USA Today
852
00:45:54,066 --> 00:45:55,066
that there was no match.
853
00:45:55,699 --> 00:45:58,783
DANNY: Jordan Chandler's
drawing of Michael Jackson's genitalia
854
00:45:58,783 --> 00:46:02,466
have since been leaked,
and when you really look at it
855
00:46:02,466 --> 00:46:06,666
with words such as "my
theory" and "be selective",
856
00:46:06,666 --> 00:46:10,183
it's questionable whether these
are truly Jordan's own descriptions
857
00:46:10,183 --> 00:46:12,550
or instructions from someone else.
858
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:14,466
It's also important to note
that Evan Chandler has
859
00:46:14,466 --> 00:46:17,550
admittingly given Michael
Jackson painkillers through
860
00:46:17,550 --> 00:46:21,833
injections to his buttocks.
So at the very least,
861
00:46:21,833 --> 00:46:25,349
Evan saw Jackson's gluteus
and that he had discoloration
862
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:26,833
on his lower body region.
863
00:46:29,666 --> 00:46:31,349
CHARLES: The Smoking Gun obtains a document
864
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:34,533
which is called, they say,
"The Linden Affidavit".
865
00:46:34,533 --> 00:46:36,849
It's written by a Detective
Linden who works for the
866
00:46:36,849 --> 00:46:39,933
authorities that are investigating
the Jordan Chandler case.
867
00:46:39,933 --> 00:46:43,133
And she has taken from
Jordan Chandler a description
868
00:46:43,133 --> 00:46:45,800
of Michael Jackson's genitals, and
869
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,199
Jordan Chandler tells Linden that
Michael Jackson is circumcised.
870
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:52,283
When they conduct the body search,
871
00:46:52,283 --> 00:46:55,283
it turns out Michael Jackson
is in fact not circumcised,
872
00:46:55,283 --> 00:46:58,199
meaning his description has not matched.
873
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:08,283
CHARLES: What had
happened was that Barry Rothman
874
00:47:08,283 --> 00:47:11,599
was being sued by Michael
Jackson for extortion,
875
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:14,166
and so he quit representing the Chandler's.
876
00:47:14,166 --> 00:47:17,650
The Chandler's then
proceeded to hire Gloria Allred,
877
00:47:17,650 --> 00:47:19,716
who held a press
conference claiming that the
878
00:47:19,716 --> 00:47:22,283
Chandler's were ready for a criminal case.
879
00:47:22,283 --> 00:47:25,083
- to make a charge against a celebrity...
880
00:47:25,083 --> 00:47:28,216
DANNY: Gloria Allred is
shortly fired and Barry Rothman,
881
00:47:28,216 --> 00:47:30,766
who's now working in the background,
suggests
882
00:47:30,766 --> 00:47:34,449
Larry Feldman as a replacement,
an attorney who is
883
00:47:34,449 --> 00:47:36,500
willing to push for a civil case.
884
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:41,966
Charles, what is the difference
between a civil case and a criminal case?
885
00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:45,933
CHARLES: A civil case is where you
sue somebody, and that's for money.
886
00:47:45,933 --> 00:47:50,116
Whereas a criminal case is
brought by the state, the government,
887
00:47:50,116 --> 00:47:53,833
and that's a case where if you're
convicted, then you go to prison.
888
00:47:53,833 --> 00:47:56,866
So they're two very separate processes.
889
00:47:56,866 --> 00:47:59,433
What happens is the
criminal case stalls because
890
00:47:59,433 --> 00:48:03,199
they can't find any evidence to suggest
that Michael's done anything wrong.
891
00:48:03,199 --> 00:48:06,516
So they raid his house: they
don't find anything incriminating.
892
00:48:06,516 --> 00:48:10,400
They raid his family home: they
don't find anything incriminating.
893
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,750
They raid his doctor's offices:
they don't find anything incriminating.
894
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,916
Of course,
you've got a boy at the center of the case
895
00:48:16,916 --> 00:48:20,400
who at first said he wasn't
molested then changed his
896
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,516
story and said that he was
molested and only changed
897
00:48:23,516 --> 00:48:26,449
his mind after being given sodium amytal.
898
00:48:26,449 --> 00:48:28,883
So then they go off
looking for other victims,
899
00:48:28,883 --> 00:48:30,800
and they can't find any.
900
00:48:30,933 --> 00:48:33,583
- In fact,
if anybody wants to go back to 1993
901
00:48:33,583 --> 00:48:36,300
when I was interviewed by the
Santa Barbara Police Department,
902
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:38,533
I sat there and I gave them the names.
903
00:48:38,533 --> 00:48:41,099
They're on record. They
have all of this information.
904
00:48:41,099 --> 00:48:43,333
But they were scanning Michael Jackson.
905
00:48:43,333 --> 00:48:45,983
All they cared about was trying to
find something on Michael Jackson.
906
00:48:45,983 --> 00:48:47,976
Who you said, by the way,
did not abuse you.
907
00:48:47,988 --> 00:48:49,183
who Michael was innocent!
908
00:48:49,183 --> 00:48:51,933
and that was what the interview
was about with the police in 1993.
909
00:48:51,933 --> 00:48:54,216
I told them,
"he is not that guy!" and they said,
910
00:48:54,216 --> 00:48:56,016
"Well, maybe you just
don't understand your friend."
911
00:48:56,016 --> 00:48:58,900
And I said, "No,
I know the difference between pedophiles
912
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:01,500
and somebody who's not a
pedophile because I've been molested!
913
00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:03,183
Here's the names! Go investigate!
914
00:49:03,183 --> 00:49:06,766
And these detectives hammer
away at Corey Feldman:
915
00:49:06,766 --> 00:49:11,766
"What happened with you and Michael
Jackson?" and over and over and over again,
916
00:49:11,766 --> 00:49:15,766
Corey Feldman says, "Nothing happened,
I have racked my brain!
917
00:49:15,766 --> 00:49:17,807
I've thought about,
'well did something happen
918
00:49:17,819 --> 00:49:19,916
and I didn't realize it?'
No! Nothing happened.”
919
00:49:19,916 --> 00:49:24,800
and they don't want to hear it! It seems
like that is not what they want to hear.
920
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,849
They hammer away at him over
and over again for more than an hour.
921
00:49:29,849 --> 00:49:32,000
What's really amazing is at
one point he goes “You know,
922
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,250
I know what it’s like to be
molested. I WAS molested."
923
00:49:35,250 --> 00:49:38,250
He names this person that
he accuses of molesting him,
924
00:49:38,250 --> 00:49:41,000
and even says what his occupation is-
925
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,050
These detectives show very
little interest in pursuing that angle
926
00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:47,050
and bring it right back to Michael Jackson,
927
00:49:47,050 --> 00:49:49,566
"Well, did you talk to
Michael Jackson about that?"
928
00:49:49,766 --> 00:49:52,400
CHARLES: So the criminal
case is basically going nowhere
929
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,849
but meanwhile, the civil case is moving
930
00:49:54,849 --> 00:49:58,166
through the court
system at the usual speed.
931
00:49:58,166 --> 00:50:02,966
So the judge, in October of 1993,
orders depositions.
932
00:50:02,966 --> 00:50:05,400
A deposition is where you're
forced to state your case,
933
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,683
to give your evidence under oath.
934
00:50:07,683 --> 00:50:10,449
It can be done in court or
it can be done under oath
935
00:50:10,449 --> 00:50:13,849
somewhere else and
audiotaped or videotaped.
936
00:50:13,849 --> 00:50:18,699
Now, he orders that Michael Jackson
is to be deposed by January '94.
937
00:50:18,699 --> 00:50:20,936
The problem with
this is that if you have a
938
00:50:20,948 --> 00:50:23,300
civil case which comes
before a criminal case,
939
00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:25,383
and you're forced to
give away your defense,
940
00:50:25,383 --> 00:50:27,719
then what that does is
gives the Prosecutor's
941
00:50:27,731 --> 00:50:29,466
a front-row seat
for your defense,
942
00:50:29,466 --> 00:50:31,672
They can then go
away and tailor their
943
00:50:31,684 --> 00:50:34,300
criminal case to circumvent
your defense case.
944
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:39,833
So for example, if you say I
have an alibi in the civil case,
945
00:50:39,833 --> 00:50:43,199
Then the prosecutors can
go and tailor their criminal case
946
00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:45,398
where they change
all the dates and they
947
00:50:45,410 --> 00:50:47,783
could just change the
case to get around it.
948
00:50:47,783 --> 00:50:50,800
If you have a witness,
they go and discredit the witness
949
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,000
or they put the charges on a
day when the witness wasn't there
950
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,116
so they just take your
defense out chunk by chunk,
951
00:50:57,116 --> 00:51:01,550
and by the time you come into a Criminal
Court, where your life is on the line,
952
00:51:01,550 --> 00:51:04,000
your freedom,
rather than your bank balance,
953
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,633
you have no defense.
954
00:51:05,633 --> 00:51:08,016
You've wasted your defense
trying to save some money,
955
00:51:08,016 --> 00:51:09,983
and now you're going to prison.
956
00:51:09,983 --> 00:51:13,300
That is the problem with a civil
case proceeding a criminal case.
957
00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:18,266
Now from October 1993 to January 94,
958
00:51:18,266 --> 00:51:23,583
Michael's defense goes back to court 4
different times and argues to the judge,
959
00:51:23,583 --> 00:51:26,816
"We need the civil case
delayed so it doesn't precede the
960
00:51:26,816 --> 00:51:30,066
criminal case because
this is unconstitutional.
961
00:51:30,066 --> 00:51:32,583
If you force our client
to give away his defense,
962
00:51:32,583 --> 00:51:36,300
then you're denying him his
constitutional right to a fair trial".
963
00:51:37,016 --> 00:51:41,699
- Michael Jackson lost 2 very important
motions that he should have won.
964
00:51:41,699 --> 00:51:43,300
One was a preference.
965
00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:46,183
Preference has to do with either:
he was too young to remember
966
00:51:46,183 --> 00:51:49,016
and there's a memory issue,
or he's too old.
967
00:51:49,016 --> 00:51:50,933
CHARLES: What Larry
Feldman keeps arguing is that
968
00:51:50,933 --> 00:51:52,783
because the complainant is a child,
969
00:51:52,783 --> 00:51:55,500
his memory is not fully developed,
970
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:57,631
and he would be at
risk of losing his memory
971
00:51:57,643 --> 00:51:59,500
if his testimony was
not heard quickly.
972
00:51:59,699 --> 00:52:03,933
- Jordie Chandler was 14 at the
time. He wasn't too young or too old.
973
00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:07,616
CHARLES: The Jackson lawyers are
going to court again and again and again
974
00:52:07,616 --> 00:52:12,183
to try to get this deposition put
back- to get the civil case put back
975
00:52:12,183 --> 00:52:14,466
so the criminal case can precede it.
976
00:52:14,466 --> 00:52:17,783
Meanwhile, the Chandler's are
fighting hard to stop that from happening.
977
00:52:18,266 --> 00:52:23,266
- Evan Chandler was asking the
court to push the civil case before-
978
00:52:23,266 --> 00:52:25,900
while the criminal case
was going because normally,
979
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:30,066
the criminal case has to take
precedence over the civil case.
980
00:52:30,066 --> 00:52:33,583
He shouldn't have one on that
one because constitutionally,
981
00:52:33,583 --> 00:52:37,783
that went against Michael's constitutional
right. He won on that one, too.
982
00:52:38,066 --> 00:52:42,300
CHARLES: Michael's deposition is
due on a particular date in January '94.
983
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:47,216
What happens is initially he's saved
by the Los Angeles earthquake of '94,
984
00:52:47,216 --> 00:52:50,866
which happens the day before
he's supposed to be deposed.
985
00:52:50,866 --> 00:52:53,616
That buys them an extra week,
but within that week,
986
00:52:53,616 --> 00:52:56,783
they're again not able to
postpone the civil case deposition.
987
00:52:57,216 --> 00:53:00,983
- When the judge is not ruling in
your favor, that tells an attorney:
988
00:53:00,983 --> 00:53:04,733
maybe we need to settle this because
he's not ruling in our favor right now.
989
00:53:04,933 --> 00:53:06,333
CHARLES: And so on the eve,
990
00:53:06,333 --> 00:53:09,266
literally the night before
he would have been
991
00:53:09,266 --> 00:53:11,500
forced to give away his defense under oath,
992
00:53:12,666 --> 00:53:14,216
The civil settlement is reached.
993
00:53:14,983 --> 00:53:16,266
The civil case is settled.
994
00:53:16,733 --> 00:53:18,066
- He was negotiating.
995
00:53:18,066 --> 00:53:22,666
Johnnie Cochran came on board, he
was negotiating with the insurance company.
996
00:53:22,666 --> 00:53:26,183
At first, the insurance company said,
no, they weren't gonna pay it,
997
00:53:26,183 --> 00:53:29,500
and he went back and forth
back and forth and he nego-
998
00:53:29,500 --> 00:53:32,416
Johnnie Cochran negotiated.
He was a great negotiator,
999
00:53:32,416 --> 00:53:35,733
because he was a P.I. Attorney.
He started out a P.I. Attorney.
1000
00:53:35,733 --> 00:53:39,983
and he convinced the insurance
company to pay the settlement.
1001
00:53:39,983 --> 00:53:43,266
When Michael settled the case,
the judge- um,
1002
00:53:43,266 --> 00:53:46,383
They made him drop his extortion claim,
1003
00:53:46,383 --> 00:53:49,416
so the real story hasn't been told.
1004
00:53:49,416 --> 00:53:54,266
The real story is that Michael
Jackson was the victim of an elaborate
1005
00:53:54,266 --> 00:53:57,816
extortion scheme that
launched the false allegation.
1006
00:54:00,133 --> 00:54:04,666
("Moonlight Sonata" plays)
1007
00:54:05,466 --> 00:54:06,783
reporter: Superstar, Michael Jackson,
1008
00:54:06,783 --> 00:54:11,099
and the teenage boy who filed a
civil molestation suit against him
1009
00:54:11,099 --> 00:54:13,816
have reached a multi-million
dollar out-of-court settlement.
1010
00:54:13,816 --> 00:54:16,416
Attorneys on both sides appeared
today at a joint press conference
1011
00:54:16,416 --> 00:54:19,099
to announce a mutual
resolution of the lawsuit,
1012
00:54:19,099 --> 00:54:22,616
but lawyers are not discussing
the actual amount of the settlement.
1013
00:54:23,416 --> 00:54:27,133
CHARLES: Now, the civil
settlement includes a specific clause
1014
00:54:27,133 --> 00:54:29,900
which says that it doesn't
preclude anybody involved
1015
00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:34,699
from testifying in a criminal case,
and then to reiterate that,
1016
00:54:34,699 --> 00:54:37,216
at the press conference
announcing the settlement,
1017
00:54:37,216 --> 00:54:41,016
Larry Feldman specifically
denies that this will have any impact
1018
00:54:41,016 --> 00:54:44,616
on the criminal case. REPORTER: Has Michael
Jackson bought your client's silence?
1019
00:54:44,616 --> 00:54:47,466
- I am not going to have
anything to do with talking
1020
00:54:47,466 --> 00:54:49,666
about the terms of the settlement and
1021
00:54:49,666 --> 00:54:52,216
Nobody's bought anyone's silence.
1022
00:54:52,616 --> 00:54:55,300
A civil case is only about money if they-
1023
00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:57,133
you know, and I tell people this too:
1024
00:54:57,133 --> 00:55:00,783
we're in a state where they
could have went after criminal-
1025
00:55:00,783 --> 00:55:05,383
him criminally and came back
after the money: all they wanted.
1026
00:55:05,383 --> 00:55:08,310
A lot of people think
because he settled the
1027
00:55:08,322 --> 00:55:11,066
civil case,
that that voided the criminal.
1028
00:55:11,066 --> 00:55:13,866
That's not true. It did
not void the criminal.
1029
00:55:13,866 --> 00:55:17,300
The reason they never
came after him criminally in '93
1030
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:21,266
was because they couldn't
find any corroborating evidence
1031
00:55:21,266 --> 00:55:23,783
to agree with Jordie Chandler's story.
1032
00:55:23,783 --> 00:55:26,783
As a matter of fact,
they found out that the description
1033
00:55:26,783 --> 00:55:30,333
he gave of Michael's body was not accurate.
1034
00:55:30,333 --> 00:55:33,133
If that was accurate,
that was corroborating.
1035
00:55:33,783 --> 00:55:35,783
CHARLES: As of the summer of 1994,
1036
00:55:35,783 --> 00:55:39,783
the prosecution is running a
grand jury long after the settlement
1037
00:55:39,783 --> 00:55:43,133
and calls witnesses to the grand
jury and questions them about
1038
00:55:43,133 --> 00:55:45,545
whether Michael
Jackson could have had
1039
00:55:45,557 --> 00:55:48,416
plastic surgery to his
penis to avoid a match.
1040
00:55:48,416 --> 00:55:50,383
Now, why would they be doing that?
1041
00:55:50,383 --> 00:55:52,933
Why would they be calling
witnesses and asking those questions
1042
00:55:52,933 --> 00:55:54,816
if in fact the photographs had matched?
1043
00:55:55,466 --> 00:55:59,733
See, people need to know
they never indicted Michael in '93
1044
00:55:59,733 --> 00:56:02,900
'cause they couldn't come up
with enough evidence to indict him.
1045
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:05,816
And so, the way they spinning it,
they're spinning it:
1046
00:56:05,816 --> 00:56:09,300
"Well,
oh he said also that that voided the-"
1047
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:10,616
No, it did not.
1048
00:56:10,616 --> 00:56:14,133
If that prosecutor, Tom Sneddon, could find
1049
00:56:14,133 --> 00:56:17,733
could have found anything
to corroborate that boy's story,
1050
00:56:17,733 --> 00:56:20,666
he would have still gone-
gone after him criminally, too.
1051
00:56:23,466 --> 00:56:36,349
("Moonlight Sonata" playing)
1052
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:42,083
DANNY: Victor Gutierrez is a
freelance reporter, born in Chile.
1053
00:56:42,083 --> 00:56:46,883
According to him,
he first went to a NABLA meeting in 1986.
1054
00:56:46,883 --> 00:56:53,166
What is NAMBLA? NAMBLA stands for
North American Men Boys Love Association,
1055
00:56:53,166 --> 00:56:55,599
So it's basically a pro-pedophile group.
1056
00:56:56,233 --> 00:56:59,288
Tell us about you
infiltrating this group.
1057
00:56:59,300 --> 00:57:02,716
Actually,
the infiltration was fairly easy, um,
1058
00:57:02,716 --> 00:57:06,283
They had a website. I
paid $35. I joined the group.
1059
00:57:06,283 --> 00:57:08,516
They sent me a letter, um, praising me
1060
00:57:08,516 --> 00:57:12,000
for my courageous step
in joining the organization.
1061
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:16,650
I began to get e-mails from them. I
was subscribed to their magazine.
1062
00:57:16,650 --> 00:57:18,400
They started to send me their magazine.
1063
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,000
But they wouldn't allow me to attend
any of their secret underground meetings
1064
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,516
until I'd been a member for 3 years and
1065
00:57:25,516 --> 00:57:28,716
had been sponsored by
another "active duty" member.
1066
00:57:28,716 --> 00:57:34,083
Every conversation that I had was about
where to go to have sex with little boys,
1067
00:57:34,083 --> 00:57:36,166
how they could attract little boys,
1068
00:57:36,166 --> 00:57:37,883
how they could groom little boys.
1069
00:57:37,883 --> 00:57:38,933
That was their agenda.
1070
00:57:39,383 --> 00:57:44,099
DANNY: So at this meeting, he
overhears conversations talking about how
1071
00:57:44,099 --> 00:57:47,616
it would be great if Michael
Jackson was a pedophile
1072
00:57:47,616 --> 00:57:49,983
because if Michael Jackson is a pedophile,
1073
00:57:49,983 --> 00:57:55,066
that makes it easier for societies
to accept pedophilia as a whole.
1074
00:57:55,066 --> 00:58:01,099
So after this NAMBLA conference,
after this 1986 conference,
1075
00:58:01,099 --> 00:58:06,733
it becomes Victor Gutierrez's mission to
prove that Michael Jackson is a pedophile.
1076
00:58:06,733 --> 00:58:11,783
He starts befriending Michael
Jackson's maids, former employees,
1077
00:58:11,783 --> 00:58:15,583
and he even approaches Joy Robson,
Wade Robson's mother.
1078
00:58:15,583 --> 00:58:18,383
Joy Robson subsequently
told him to get lost and
1079
00:58:18,383 --> 00:58:21,666
Joy Robson reported him to Michael Jackson.
1080
00:58:21,666 --> 00:58:25,900
This is in 1992, before allegations
of Michael Jackson even rose.
1081
00:58:25,900 --> 00:58:28,333
So during the '93 allegations,
1082
00:58:28,333 --> 00:58:32,500
Victor Gutierrez served as a
source for many journalists,
1083
00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:37,216
including but are not limited to
Diane Dimond and Maureen Orth.
1084
00:58:37,216 --> 00:58:40,983
He also coaches Michael
Jackson's former employees,
1085
00:58:40,983 --> 00:58:45,866
such as his maids,
Blanca Francia and Adrian McManus,
1086
00:58:45,866 --> 00:58:49,466
notable ones,
to sell their stories to tabloids.
1087
00:58:49,466 --> 00:58:53,783
In 1996,
Victor Gutierrez wrote a book titled
1088
00:58:53,783 --> 00:58:59,300
"Michael Jackson Was My Lover",
a book that glorified pedophilia
1089
00:58:59,300 --> 00:59:02,816
through the relationship between
Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler.
1090
00:59:03,066 --> 00:59:12,216
(sinister music)
1091
00:59:12,500 --> 00:59:15,016
The Chandler family has since dismissed
1092
00:59:15,016 --> 00:59:19,333
Victor Gutierrez's book as
pure fiction. The Chandler's-
1093
00:59:19,333 --> 00:59:23,583
Raymond Chandler,
released a book in 2004 titled,
1094
00:59:23,583 --> 00:59:25,466
"All That Glitters".
1095
00:59:25,983 --> 00:59:28,099
PUBLISHER: Within days of
Jordan Chandler and his family
1096
00:59:28,099 --> 00:59:31,500
settling his 1993 lawsuit
against Michael Jackson,
1097
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:33,733
I received a call from Jordan's uncle.
1098
00:59:33,733 --> 00:59:37,216
He wanted to do a book in
which he would describe in detail
1099
00:59:37,216 --> 00:59:39,849
the allegation of molestation
against Michael Jackson,
1100
00:59:39,849 --> 00:59:42,344
and he said that Jordan's
father had given him
1101
00:59:42,356 --> 00:59:44,650
all the information he
needed for the book,
1102
00:59:44,650 --> 00:59:48,099
and believed it was outside the
bounds of the confidentiality agreement,
1103
00:59:48,099 --> 00:59:49,650
because he would be the author.
1104
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:51,500
DANNY: After careful examination between
1105
00:59:51,500 --> 00:59:56,183
'Michael Jackson Was my Lover'
and 'All That Glitters': these two books-
1106
00:59:56,183 --> 01:00:01,416
we have found many instances of consistent
storytelling between the two books,
1107
01:00:01,416 --> 01:00:03,550
especially from Evan's point of view.
1108
01:00:03,550 --> 01:00:07,349
At times, the stories are
even word-for-word the same.
1109
01:00:07,349 --> 01:00:11,616
Truthfully speaking, the only
differences between the two books are the
1110
01:00:11,616 --> 01:00:15,783
supposed sexual acts between
Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler.
1111
01:00:15,783 --> 01:00:18,866
Now when you look at some of
these parallel stories even deeper,
1112
01:00:18,866 --> 01:00:23,416
Gutierrez's book, which preceded
the Chandler's book by 7 years,
1113
01:00:23,416 --> 01:00:26,383
even sources some stories directly to Evan.
1114
01:00:26,383 --> 01:00:31,900
So how would it be possible for Gutierrez
to tell these confirmable stories first?
1115
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:35,500
'Michael Jackson Was my Lover'
also featured many documents
1116
01:00:36,116 --> 01:00:39,766
of the Chandler family that
could only have come from Evan.
1117
01:00:40,033 --> 01:00:49,633
(eerie music)
1118
01:00:49,966 --> 01:00:52,800
This proves that Victor Gutierrez,
1119
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,833
a man who has an agenda for
pushing Michael Jackson as a pedophile,
1120
01:00:56,833 --> 01:01:00,633
a man who had coached people
to lie against Michael Jackson,
1121
01:01:00,633 --> 01:01:03,199
was in fact connected to Evan Chandler,
1122
01:01:03,199 --> 01:01:05,199
the father of the first accuser.
1123
01:01:05,483 --> 01:01:11,316
(intense violin music)
1124
01:01:11,616 --> 01:01:14,966
DIMOND: Ever since the Michael
Jackson child molestation scandal broke,
1125
01:01:14,966 --> 01:01:18,650
we've gotten a constant stream
of calls and letters from people
1126
01:01:18,650 --> 01:01:21,216
making dubious claims about the singer.
1127
01:01:21,216 --> 01:01:23,333
Frankly, we ignore most of them,
1128
01:01:23,333 --> 01:01:25,699
but when I heard the facts of this story,
1129
01:01:25,699 --> 01:01:28,633
I just had to go to Canada
and check it out myself.
1130
01:01:29,233 --> 01:01:32,183
DANNY: The journalist, Diane Dimond,
got a tip from her source
1131
01:01:32,183 --> 01:01:35,466
that a child had been
molested by Michael Jackson.
1132
01:01:35,466 --> 01:01:38,216
This child lived in Toronto,
so she flew to
1133
01:01:38,228 --> 01:01:41,116
Toronto with authorities
to interview the boy.
1134
01:01:41,283 --> 01:01:43,116
I'd like to make a confession
about something that
1135
01:01:43,116 --> 01:01:45,116
happened between me and Michael Jackson.
1136
01:01:45,199 --> 01:01:49,283
DANNY: And this child proceeded
to tell wild stories with vivid details.
1137
01:01:49,766 --> 01:01:53,000
- He started just touching
like our stomach and things,
1138
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,516
like he'd rub our stomach and
then he-he'd get lower and then,
1139
01:01:56,516 --> 01:01:58,883
that's when I started saying like,
"What are you doing?"
1140
01:01:58,883 --> 01:02:02,566
He said, "It's okay, don't worry.
Bodies are meant to be touched."
1141
01:02:02,566 --> 01:02:05,283
He showed me this place like a saddle shop,
1142
01:02:05,283 --> 01:02:08,199
where he said he-- he said he
gets stuff for his animals there.
1143
01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:09,233
I don't know what he got but-
1144
01:02:09,233 --> 01:02:12,683
- They're gonna' think you're making it up.
- Yeah I know, I know.
1145
01:02:12,683 --> 01:02:15,033
But I don't care about his money,
he can keep it.
1146
01:02:15,033 --> 01:02:18,199
His eyes are big and they're- they're dark,
like cavernous
1147
01:02:18,199 --> 01:02:20,400
-like the sockets go right in, you know?
1148
01:02:20,633 --> 01:02:22,466
DIMOND: We showed the
boy several photographs,
1149
01:02:22,466 --> 01:02:25,666
some of them were of Neverland employees,
1150
01:02:25,666 --> 01:02:29,066
and he was able to identify
each and every one of them.
1151
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:32,933
Yeah, that's him.. that's him.
1152
01:02:33,650 --> 01:02:35,733
I found him fairly believable too.
1153
01:02:35,733 --> 01:02:37,800
DANNY: During police interviews,
the child broke down
1154
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,283
and confirmed that he had been coached.
1155
01:02:40,283 --> 01:02:44,000
At the end, it turned out he
was coached by Rodney Allen.
1156
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,449
- About Neverland? About Hayvenhurst?
1157
01:02:46,449 --> 01:02:49,483
About Disneyland? About
Michael Jackson's body-
1158
01:02:49,483 --> 01:02:52,849
Where did he get all that information?
- He got it from me.
1159
01:02:52,849 --> 01:02:58,133
- This kid is an A-1 Number One liar.
- Professional.
1160
01:02:58,133 --> 01:03:00,599
DANNY: Rodney Allen is
currently serving a life sentence
1161
01:03:00,599 --> 01:03:03,733
in a Canadian prison for pedophilia.
1162
01:03:03,733 --> 01:03:07,333
Paula, a Michael Jackson investigator,
has confirmed
1163
01:03:07,333 --> 01:03:10,766
through letters to Rodney Allen that
1164
01:03:10,766 --> 01:03:14,333
Rodney Allen was in fact
connected to Victor Gutierrez.
1165
01:03:14,333 --> 01:03:19,133
In 1999, there was a blog
post floating around the internet
1166
01:03:19,133 --> 01:03:21,250
that was said to be
written by Rodney Allen,
1167
01:03:21,250 --> 01:03:24,849
but no one took it seriously at the
time because there was no evidence
1168
01:03:24,849 --> 01:03:26,650
as to who authored the post.
1169
01:03:26,650 --> 01:03:29,849
Paula sent this blog post to Rodney Allen
1170
01:03:29,849 --> 01:03:34,166
and Rodney Allen has since confirmed
that he in fact did write this confession,
1171
01:03:34,166 --> 01:03:36,199
and in the confession,
this is what he talked
1172
01:03:36,199 --> 01:03:38,683
about in regards to the
Jordan Chandler case.
1173
01:03:38,933 --> 01:03:48,133
(eerie music)
1174
01:03:48,333 --> 01:03:51,683
This obviously doesn't
prove anything concrete, but
1175
01:03:51,683 --> 01:03:54,400
it's still interesting that Rodney Allen,
1176
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,000
a man who was connected
to Victor Gutierrez,
1177
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,483
a man who has a history of coaching
kids to lie against Michael Jackson
1178
01:04:00,483 --> 01:04:02,000
had that to say.
1179
01:04:04,533 --> 01:04:08,199
REPORTER: The King
of Pop chocks up a big win!
1180
01:04:08,199 --> 01:04:12,000
A jury has awarded Michael
Jackson a whopping $2.7 million
1181
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:16,000
for a defamation lawsuit he filed
against freelance writer, Victor Gutierrez.
1182
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,566
Gutierrez claimed on a
tabloid TV show that he'd seen a
1183
01:04:18,566 --> 01:04:20,650
video of Jackson having sex with a boy.
1184
01:04:20,650 --> 01:04:25,199
ATTORNEY: This guy made it up out
of thin air maliciously to hurt Michael,
1185
01:04:25,199 --> 01:04:28,000
and he told anybody and- anybody
and everybody who would listen.
1186
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:29,883
When it came time
to prove it in this court,
1187
01:04:29,883 --> 01:04:31,000
he couldn't prove it.
1188
01:04:31,316 --> 01:04:41,066
(harrowing music)
1189
01:04:41,266 --> 01:04:43,599
Years later, in the early 2000s,
1190
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:47,599
Victor Gutierrez again started
spreading rumors regarding sexual abuse.
1191
01:04:47,599 --> 01:04:51,516
This time around the
involvement of politicians in Chile.
1192
01:04:51,516 --> 01:04:55,266
A boy claimed he participated
in these sexual activities
1193
01:04:55,266 --> 01:04:58,800
and was able to describe
stories with vivid details.
1194
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:03,199
It was later proven in court that
the boy had never met this politician.
1195
01:05:03,199 --> 01:05:06,633
While questioned, the boy could not
even remember the politician's name
1196
01:05:06,633 --> 01:05:09,800
and had to be prompted by
Victor Gutierrez off camera.
1197
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,633
It was later discovered that
Gutierrez had paid this child
1198
01:05:12,633 --> 01:05:15,550
around 10 to 20 thousand pesos.
1199
01:05:15,550 --> 01:05:18,466
There were no other witnesses, nor proof,
1200
01:05:18,466 --> 01:05:22,349
just the words of a boy who
were connected to Victor Gutierrez,
1201
01:05:22,349 --> 01:05:25,433
the same man who was
connected to Evan Chandler.
1202
01:05:26,300 --> 01:05:39,099
(haunting piano music)
1203
01:05:40,216 --> 01:05:43,099
And we also weren't- and
I've been very transparent.
1204
01:05:43,099 --> 01:05:45,133
We weren't best friends.
We weren't very close.
1205
01:05:45,133 --> 01:05:47,266
I kept, you know, him at arm's length
1206
01:05:47,266 --> 01:05:52,333
because I knew who he was, and I
didn't really know how to deal with that.
1207
01:05:52,333 --> 01:05:54,066
And he was very close with, um-
1208
01:05:54,066 --> 01:05:56,066
I remember one other person in the program
1209
01:05:56,066 --> 01:05:59,699
who also was sort of like a pop R&B guy.
1210
01:05:59,699 --> 01:06:04,666
I believe he did production,
and he also was a big Michael Jackson fan.
1211
01:06:04,666 --> 01:06:09,133
So I mean, of- when I think about
the people in the program that he-
1212
01:06:09,133 --> 01:06:12,066
I saw him with, the people
that he did surround himself with
1213
01:06:12,066 --> 01:06:14,266
were people who were Michael Jackson fans,
you know?
1214
01:06:14,266 --> 01:06:17,416
I was told that at a party, um, Jordan
1215
01:06:17,416 --> 01:06:20,099
you know, played all of Michael's music,
1216
01:06:20,099 --> 01:06:22,733
danced like him, did all of his moves, um,
1217
01:06:22,733 --> 01:06:24,816
and that his apartment was almost sort of
1218
01:06:24,816 --> 01:06:26,699
a shrine to Michael,
1219
01:06:26,699 --> 01:06:29,666
that there was a lot of
different like fan memorabilia.
1220
01:06:30,266 --> 01:06:48,900
(haunting music)
1221
01:06:49,333 --> 01:06:51,983
It doesn't surprise me that
people are scared to come out.
1222
01:06:51,983 --> 01:06:56,266
because um, you know,
I have some flexibility I work for myself.
1223
01:06:56,266 --> 01:06:58,666
If I were in a corporate job,
I might be scared too
1224
01:06:58,666 --> 01:07:01,666
because we don't really know the-
1225
01:07:01,666 --> 01:07:03,533
we don't really know
who the powers that be are
1226
01:07:03,533 --> 01:07:06,983
behind 'Leaving Neverland', and, you know,
1227
01:07:06,983 --> 01:07:09,733
to speak out at this point,
1228
01:07:09,733 --> 01:07:11,933
might be cause a conflict
of interest for somebody
1229
01:07:11,933 --> 01:07:14,466
if they're working with a big corporation,
you know?
1230
01:07:14,466 --> 01:07:16,466
It could have really harmed their career,
so I'm
1231
01:07:16,466 --> 01:07:18,666
not surprised that people
would be afraid to come out.
1232
01:07:19,099 --> 01:07:26,300
(somber music)
1233
01:07:26,866 --> 01:07:28,099
CHARLES: So after the settlement,
1234
01:07:28,099 --> 01:07:30,300
Michael is married to
Lisa Marie Presley and
1235
01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:32,383
goes to work on an album called 'HIStory'.
1236
01:07:32,783 --> 01:07:33,816
REPORTER: At a warehouse in London,
1237
01:07:33,816 --> 01:07:35,933
staff listened to the
long-awaited new songs today
1238
01:07:35,933 --> 01:07:39,099
as they wrapped them
ready to go on sale tomorrow.
1239
01:07:39,099 --> 01:07:42,183
The album called
'HIStory' contains 15 old hits
1240
01:07:42,183 --> 01:07:44,066
and 15 new songs.
1241
01:07:44,066 --> 01:07:45,733
CHARLES: Much of the
content of the 'HIStory' album
1242
01:07:45,733 --> 01:07:50,333
you could argue, of course,
all art is subject to interpretation
1243
01:07:50,333 --> 01:07:54,933
but it seems to be quite clearly
influenced by what has happened to him
1244
01:07:54,933 --> 01:07:56,933
during the Jordan Chandler legal situation.
1245
01:07:57,516 --> 01:08:26,149
[Michael Jackson - Money]
1246
01:08:26,149 --> 01:08:36,250
[Michael Jackson - Tabloid Junkie]
1247
01:08:36,250 --> 01:08:39,100
CHARLES: And also,
once married to Lisa Marie Presley
1248
01:08:39,100 --> 01:08:40,899
and about to release the album,
1249
01:08:40,899 --> 01:08:43,500
he appears on PrimeTime with Diane Sawyer
1250
01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:46,699
along with Lisa Marie
Presley and does an interview,
1251
01:08:46,699 --> 01:08:48,383
and during that interview,
1252
01:08:48,383 --> 01:08:51,566
although he does not discuss any
specifics of the Jordan Chandler case,
1253
01:08:51,566 --> 01:08:54,550
He does say that he's innocent
1254
01:08:54,550 --> 01:08:57,250
and that there's no evidence
to connect him to any crime.
1255
01:08:57,250 --> 01:09:00,016
MICHAEL: The police photographs,
that they took of me?
1256
01:09:00,016 --> 01:09:01,866
There was nothing that
matched me to those charges.
1257
01:09:01,866 --> 01:09:03,375
There was nothing
that concurred.
1258
01:09:03,387 --> 01:09:05,583
That's why I'm sitting
here talking to you today.
1259
01:09:05,583 --> 01:09:08,983
- There was nothing.
- There was not one iota of information
1260
01:09:08,983 --> 01:09:12,216
that was found that could connect me
to these charges - So when we heard..
1261
01:09:12,216 --> 01:09:13,416
-Nothing!
1262
01:09:13,583 --> 01:09:15,316
CHARLES: Now, the combination of the album
1263
01:09:15,316 --> 01:09:19,199
and the Diane Sawyer interview
sends Evan Chandler into a rage,
1264
01:09:19,199 --> 01:09:23,000
and he claims that Michael Jackson
has breached the non-disclosure part
1265
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:26,466
of the settlement agreement,
and so he files a lawsuit
1266
01:09:26,466 --> 01:09:29,000
and the remedy that he's
seeking is that he wants
1267
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:33,550
$60 million in damages and he
also wants the court's permission
1268
01:09:33,550 --> 01:09:36,666
to also breach the non-disclosure agreement
1269
01:09:36,666 --> 01:09:42,033
and to release his own
album called 'EVANStory'.
1270
01:09:42,033 --> 01:09:45,199
So he basically went to court
and tried to get a court order
1271
01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:51,000
allowing him to release a rebuttal
album on top of seeking $60 million.
1272
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,033
That case rumbled on
and on for about 6 years
1273
01:09:54,033 --> 01:09:55,316
and eventually was tossed out of court,
1274
01:09:55,316 --> 01:09:57,833
and he didn't get
anything he was asking for.
1275
01:09:57,983 --> 01:10:04,050
(somber music)
1276
01:10:04,050 --> 01:10:07,050
JOSEPHINE: You know
in- in just discussions, ah,
1277
01:10:07,050 --> 01:10:08,583
You know, we were college students,
you know, we
1278
01:10:08,583 --> 01:10:10,633
would have our- our
discussions about our parents and
1279
01:10:10,633 --> 01:10:12,850
venting and that sort of thing.
1280
01:10:12,850 --> 01:10:16,266
He said that he felt
very used by his parents
1281
01:10:16,266 --> 01:10:17,949
and that he wasn't close to them.
1282
01:10:17,949 --> 01:10:20,166
He never mentioned siblings either
1283
01:10:20,166 --> 01:10:23,083
so I don't know what was going on there,
but um,
1284
01:10:23,083 --> 01:10:25,716
He did say multiple
times that he was not close
1285
01:10:25,716 --> 01:10:28,683
to his family and that he
felt that he was used by them.
1286
01:10:28,933 --> 01:10:36,016
(soft somber music)
1287
01:10:36,016 --> 01:10:37,383
REPORTER: I'm sure most of you are aware
1288
01:10:37,383 --> 01:10:40,583
of the recent television
special that claimed
1289
01:10:40,583 --> 01:10:44,100
to give an honest, candid,
and revealing look into the
1290
01:10:44,100 --> 01:10:46,333
private life of one of the
world's most successful
1291
01:10:46,333 --> 01:10:49,066
and controversial celebrities,
Michael Jackson.
1292
01:10:49,066 --> 01:10:51,333
The revelations were explosive.
1293
01:10:51,333 --> 01:10:53,133
The ratings were enormous.
1294
01:10:53,133 --> 01:10:56,216
but what TV journalist
Martin Bashir presented
1295
01:10:56,216 --> 01:10:59,066
was a twisted and edited
construction of scandal
1296
01:10:59,066 --> 01:11:02,133
and innuendo, not a true representation
1297
01:11:02,133 --> 01:11:04,333
of the interviews that actually took place.
1298
01:11:04,333 --> 01:11:05,866
JOSEPHINE: When 'Living with
Michael Jackson' was released,
1299
01:11:05,866 --> 01:11:10,066
it reignited the discussion
about whether or not
1300
01:11:10,066 --> 01:11:12,066
Michael Jackson was a child molester.
1301
01:11:12,066 --> 01:11:16,616
The film featured a close-up of
Michael holding hands with Gavin Arvizo
1302
01:11:16,616 --> 01:11:22,899
who was a cancer victim, who then went
on to be the accuser in the 2005 trial.
1303
01:11:22,899 --> 01:11:25,866
And because um, of that shot and, you know,
1304
01:11:25,866 --> 01:11:28,533
the ratings behind 'Living
with Michael Jackson',
1305
01:11:28,533 --> 01:11:32,133
it was a huge topic of
conversation in every area of my life
1306
01:11:32,133 --> 01:11:35,333
particularly in my program meetings.
1307
01:11:35,333 --> 01:11:38,866
Immediately after the Martin
Bashir documentary aired,
1308
01:11:38,866 --> 01:11:42,616
we had a program meeting and
there was a discussion about, you know,
1309
01:11:42,616 --> 01:11:45,333
whether or not Michael Jackson was a child
molester. People were calling him "freak".
1310
01:11:45,333 --> 01:11:49,333
These were people who did not have
any fondness for Michael Jackson and
1311
01:11:49,333 --> 01:11:51,783
I chimed in with my
belief that I didn't believe
1312
01:11:51,783 --> 01:11:54,016
that Michael Jackson was a child molester
1313
01:11:54,016 --> 01:11:57,533
and that the documentary was, um, you know,
1314
01:11:57,533 --> 01:12:00,983
misleading and exploited him.
1315
01:12:00,983 --> 01:12:02,616
During that conversation,
1316
01:12:02,616 --> 01:12:05,416
Jordan Chandler chimed
in and said that he too
1317
01:12:05,416 --> 01:12:07,666
believed that Michael
Jackson wasn't capable
1318
01:12:07,666 --> 01:12:09,333
of the things he was being accused of.
1319
01:12:09,333 --> 01:12:10,933
And he said that voluntarily,
1320
01:12:10,933 --> 01:12:12,616
and he said it without my prompting,
1321
01:12:12,616 --> 01:12:13,533
and he wasn't asked.
1322
01:12:14,533 --> 01:12:18,800
(somber music)
1323
01:12:19,050 --> 01:12:20,883
He wasn't in the direct conversation no,
1324
01:12:20,883 --> 01:12:22,933
I mean I was arguing with a group of maybe
1325
01:12:22,933 --> 01:12:26,733
3 other people, um,
and he- he was seated close to us
1326
01:12:26,733 --> 01:12:28,966
but he wasn't in on this discussion
1327
01:12:28,966 --> 01:12:32,083
and you know throughout the semester,
1328
01:12:32,083 --> 01:12:34,016
there were different occasions like that
1329
01:12:34,016 --> 01:12:36,016
where he would again sort of
1330
01:12:36,016 --> 01:12:39,133
reaffirm things that I said in
defense of Michael Jackson
1331
01:12:39,133 --> 01:12:41,766
and I remember that very first time, um,
1332
01:12:41,766 --> 01:12:43,649
I remember catching his eye.
1333
01:12:43,649 --> 01:12:45,533
It was shocking that he would speak up!
1334
01:12:45,533 --> 01:12:49,816
And it really affirmed my belief
that Michael was innocent and
1335
01:12:49,816 --> 01:12:52,416
you know given things that
Jordan had said separately
1336
01:12:52,416 --> 01:12:53,883
having nothing to do with Michael Jackson
1337
01:12:53,883 --> 01:12:55,483
about his home life, you know,
1338
01:12:55,483 --> 01:12:57,216
It affirmed my belief that
1339
01:12:57,216 --> 01:12:59,166
he was a victim of his parents' greed
1340
01:12:59,166 --> 01:13:01,283
and that he was forced
to say certain things
1341
01:13:01,283 --> 01:13:03,283
because I really have a hard time believing
1342
01:13:03,283 --> 01:13:05,083
that if he had been
molested by Michael Jackson,
1343
01:13:05,083 --> 01:13:07,216
he would be going out
of his way to say that
1344
01:13:07,216 --> 01:13:09,533
he didn't think he was
capable of these things.
1345
01:13:09,533 --> 01:13:11,616
and I didn't address it
with him. I mean I was
1346
01:13:11,616 --> 01:13:16,016
One, I was very young and Two,
I didn't really know
1347
01:13:16,016 --> 01:13:18,483
how important it would
have been to address it then.
1348
01:13:18,483 --> 01:13:21,016
These conversations all
happened before Gavin Arvizo
1349
01:13:21,016 --> 01:13:22,816
made any allegations
against Michael Jackson.
1350
01:13:23,133 --> 01:13:35,850
(melancholic somber music)
1351
01:13:36,850 --> 01:13:39,616
Certainly, when I made the documentary,
1352
01:13:39,616 --> 01:13:42,250
there was a small part
of that which contained a
1353
01:13:42,250 --> 01:13:47,216
controversy concerning his
relationship with other young people.
1354
01:13:47,216 --> 01:13:50,850
But the truth is that he was
never convicted of any crime.
1355
01:13:50,850 --> 01:13:53,449
I never saw any wrongdoing myself.
1356
01:13:53,449 --> 01:13:56,016
and whilst his lifestyle may
have been a bit unorthodox,
1357
01:13:56,016 --> 01:13:57,566
I don't believe it was criminal.
1358
01:13:58,333 --> 01:14:01,566
Wait! Wait, you know they- Bashir- Hey!
1359
01:14:01,566 --> 01:14:03,566
You know how Bashir zoomed in on- on
1360
01:14:03,566 --> 01:14:06,616
on him holding hands?
Do that the same thing!
1361
01:14:06,616 --> 01:14:10,766
- It's cuz you know how a- - Because
that's what a mother does it with her son.
1362
01:14:10,766 --> 01:14:14,366
-Like you know how a father does?
-or a father does with his son, you know?
1363
01:14:14,366 --> 01:14:17,250
And they tried to make it
out to seem- be something
1364
01:14:17,250 --> 01:14:18,766
"wrong" and "dirty"?
1365
01:14:21,649 --> 01:14:24,366
FREEMAN: Her son with ill with cancer
1366
01:14:24,366 --> 01:14:25,616
and they were losing their house
1367
01:14:25,616 --> 01:14:26,850
and they were losing their car
1368
01:14:26,850 --> 01:14:29,250
because of the medical expenses.
1369
01:14:29,250 --> 01:14:31,250
She said, "You know what?
1370
01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:33,366
We didn't make enough
money from the first story.
1371
01:14:33,366 --> 01:14:35,300
Will you run another story?"
1372
01:14:36,166 --> 01:14:37,533
REPORTER: The mother's
phone call promoted the
1373
01:14:37,533 --> 01:14:40,449
reporter to carry out more
research on the family.
1374
01:14:40,449 --> 01:14:44,250
She was stunned and shaken to
learn that the family was insured,
1375
01:14:44,250 --> 01:14:47,533
and their medical expenses
had been covered all along.
1376
01:14:48,533 --> 01:14:50,216
-It gives me goosebumps. It does-
1377
01:14:50,216 --> 01:14:55,933
It does! That a mother
would use her son- to-
1378
01:14:55,933 --> 01:14:59,966
to use her son's
illness- for their own gain.
1379
01:15:00,449 --> 01:15:05,566
(somber music)
1380
01:15:05,899 --> 01:15:07,783
CASCIO: Gavin came to Michael and said,
1381
01:15:07,783 --> 01:15:11,383
"Michael could we sleep
in your room tonight?"
1382
01:15:11,383 --> 01:15:12,533
and Michael-
1383
01:15:12,533 --> 01:15:15,733
Michael looked at me and says,
"I don't know, you know,
1384
01:15:15,733 --> 01:15:17,983
I think you better ask your mother."
1385
01:15:17,983 --> 01:15:19,649
"Oh, we already asked our mother!
1386
01:15:19,649 --> 01:15:22,216
She says, 'sure no problem'!"
1387
01:15:22,216 --> 01:15:25,850
Like, no, this is- something's odd,
this is not right.
1388
01:15:25,850 --> 01:15:28,649
and then as I was about to go tell Gavin
1389
01:15:28,649 --> 01:15:31,383
that he cannot sleep in Michael's room,
1390
01:15:31,383 --> 01:15:34,850
Michael says, "Okay,
I have a solution for this:
1391
01:15:34,850 --> 01:15:38,050
You have to sleep in the room with me."
1392
01:15:38,050 --> 01:15:40,383
The two children slept on the bed
1393
01:15:40,383 --> 01:15:42,100
and Michael and I slept on the floor.
1394
01:15:42,816 --> 01:15:51,300
(melancholic piano music)
1395
01:15:51,550 --> 01:15:52,550
Filed formal charges
1396
01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:55,500
of felony criminal complaint
against Mr. Jackson.
1397
01:15:55,500 --> 01:16:00,300
The, uh,
felony complaint involves 9 counts, uh,
1398
01:16:00,300 --> 01:16:05,416
7 counts of 288A in violation
of California Penal Code,
1399
01:16:05,416 --> 01:16:08,016
commonly known as child molestation.
1400
01:16:11,633 --> 01:16:13,550
REPORTER: Thursday,
jurors listened as the teen
1401
01:16:13,550 --> 01:16:16,183
contradicted his brother
and sisters testimony
1402
01:16:16,183 --> 01:16:17,866
and couldn't recall key details
1403
01:16:17,866 --> 01:16:19,750
of the molestation allegations.
1404
01:16:20,033 --> 01:16:23,066
REPORTER: The defense pointed
out that in an early police interview,
1405
01:16:23,066 --> 01:16:25,287
the young accuser said
his grandmother had
1406
01:16:25,299 --> 01:16:27,583
told him about a certain
type of sexual act,
1407
01:16:27,583 --> 01:16:31,116
even though he had testified
that Jackson had told him about it.
1408
01:16:31,516 --> 01:16:32,466
This young man,
1409
01:16:32,466 --> 01:16:36,316
in a moment of high
emotion with this former Dean,
1410
01:16:36,316 --> 01:16:37,666
looks the Dean in the eye and says,
1411
01:16:37,666 --> 01:16:39,716
"No, Michael Jackson didn't molest me".
1412
01:16:40,066 --> 01:16:45,266
(melancholic somber music)
1413
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:50,516
I was on the witness
list for the trial in 2005
1414
01:16:50,516 --> 01:16:54,066
because I spent the
entire day with Gavin Arvizo
1415
01:16:54,066 --> 01:16:59,233
at Neverland on February 19, 2003.
1416
01:16:59,233 --> 01:17:02,949
This was the very same day
that Gavin and his mother,
1417
01:17:02,949 --> 01:17:07,733
Janet,
accused Michael of inappropriate behavior.
1418
01:17:07,733 --> 01:17:10,766
The day that they accused
Michael of wrongdoing
1419
01:17:10,766 --> 01:17:13,899
was a day that Gavin
didn't even see Michael.
1420
01:17:13,899 --> 01:17:15,733
Instead? He was with us.
1421
01:17:16,050 --> 01:17:18,733
-In 2005 during the trial,
1422
01:17:18,733 --> 01:17:20,533
you were on the witness list.
1423
01:17:20,533 --> 01:17:24,166
-Yeah! We were on the
witness list because when
1424
01:17:24,166 --> 01:17:26,800
we stayed at Neverland March 9th and 10th,
1425
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,733
Gavin Arvizo and his
brother and sister were with us
1426
01:17:29,733 --> 01:17:32,933
and the reason why it
was so important- the dates
1427
01:17:32,933 --> 01:17:35,766
is because Michael was
supposedly abusing him
1428
01:17:35,766 --> 01:17:38,483
until March 12th,
and we were there March 9th and 10th
1429
01:17:38,483 --> 01:17:40,733
- Right, so when you were there.
- and that was not happening.
1430
01:17:40,733 --> 01:17:43,000
I don't know where prosecutors go from here
1431
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:44,649
I don't know whether they can prevail
1432
01:17:44,649 --> 01:17:47,800
and get the convictions that
they want against Michael Jackson.
1433
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:51,000
Their main witness, the accuser,
the alleged victim in the case,
1434
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,966
the one witness that the jury has
to believe for prosecutors to win
1435
01:17:54,966 --> 01:17:58,133
just wasn't that believable,
and now, prosecutors are stuck.
1436
01:17:58,133 --> 01:18:00,000
The most dramatic part of their case,
1437
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,083
the highest point of their
case has already passed and
1438
01:18:02,083 --> 01:18:04,250
they really haven't sold the jury and
1439
01:18:04,250 --> 01:18:06,133
it's not going to get any
better for them from here.
1440
01:18:06,133 --> 01:18:08,966
-The '93 case,
if they'd been able to try the '93 case,
1441
01:18:08,966 --> 01:18:10,883
I think Michael Jackson would be
in a lot more trouble than he is here.
1442
01:18:10,883 --> 01:18:12,199
-We know that he molested other children.
1443
01:18:12,199 --> 01:18:15,649
-Oh yeah, He only paid them $25
million out of the goodness of his heart!
1444
01:18:15,649 --> 01:18:18,133
A pivotal day in the Michael Jackson trial:
1445
01:18:18,133 --> 01:18:20,533
the judge in this case is
set to make a ruling today
1446
01:18:20,533 --> 01:18:23,933
if prosecutors can bring
up previous child molestation
1447
01:18:23,933 --> 01:18:26,850
allegations against Michael Jackson.
1448
01:18:26,850 --> 01:18:31,050
One court observer calls these allegations
the prosecution's "nuclear bomb".
1449
01:18:31,050 --> 01:18:34,050
It is official. The ruling that
could make or break the case
1450
01:18:34,050 --> 01:18:36,600
against Michael Jackson
has been handed down.
1451
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:41,883
Jurors will hear about prior
allegations of abuse by Michael Jackson.
1452
01:18:41,883 --> 01:18:43,449
The trial here will have mini-trial
1453
01:18:43,449 --> 01:18:45,933
after mini-trial as to other offenses.
1454
01:18:45,933 --> 01:18:49,199
It'll be significantly longer
but it's significantly different
1455
01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:50,800
than what we had last week
1456
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,733
or in the beginning of
this trial up until last Friday.
1457
01:18:53,733 --> 01:18:56,083
This is now a trial about pattern evidence,
1458
01:18:56,083 --> 01:18:57,333
about propensity,
1459
01:18:57,333 --> 01:18:59,566
and once a pedophile, always a pedophile.
1460
01:19:00,449 --> 01:19:11,649
(somber music)
1461
01:19:11,899 --> 01:19:13,050
Alright, Ron?
1462
01:19:13,050 --> 01:19:13,933
I told you this was going to be admitted
1463
01:19:13,933 --> 01:19:16,100
and you kept telling
me it's not going to be.
1464
01:19:17,449 --> 01:19:19,766
-Well Dan, I was still waiting for um
1465
01:19:19,766 --> 01:19:22,250
some accuser to want
to testify in this case
1466
01:19:22,250 --> 01:19:24,100
and still, we're not getting any.
1467
01:19:24,100 --> 01:19:24,816
I think the prosecution-
1468
01:19:24,816 --> 01:19:25,699
[Dan] You're getting one of them!
1469
01:19:25,699 --> 01:19:27,133
[Ron] Well let me respond to that-
1470
01:19:27,133 --> 01:19:29,816
that kid was interviewed by Lauren Weiss,
1471
01:19:29,816 --> 01:19:31,533
who was a District Attorney in Los Angeles,
1472
01:19:31,533 --> 01:19:33,133
now a Superior Court Judge,
1473
01:19:33,133 --> 01:19:35,016
and she didn't think a
crime had been committed,
1474
01:19:35,016 --> 01:19:37,250
and neither did the Santa Barbara Sherrifs
1475
01:19:37,250 --> 01:19:38,566
when they interviewed him, and, and
1476
01:19:38,566 --> 01:19:41,416
and nobody filed any
charges at that time and
1477
01:19:41,416 --> 01:19:43,166
I think that it's going to be very suspect-
1478
01:19:43,166 --> 01:19:45,733
15 years after the fact coming into court.
1479
01:19:45,733 --> 01:19:47,766
He seemed like a sweet kid at first
1480
01:19:47,766 --> 01:19:51,616
but then after listening
to some of his statements,
1481
01:19:51,616 --> 01:19:53,300
he contradicted himself.
1482
01:19:53,333 --> 01:19:58,533
The prosecutor stated before he
testified that this would be the first time
1483
01:19:58,533 --> 01:20:00,899
that he had told the "story".
1484
01:20:00,899 --> 01:20:03,250
His credibility was like- it was horrible.
1485
01:20:03,250 --> 01:20:04,933
...who testified
1486
01:20:04,933 --> 01:20:06,850
who said that Michael Jackson had been
1487
01:20:06,850 --> 01:20:09,300
playing with him and had
gone too far and touched his
1488
01:20:09,300 --> 01:20:13,133
testicles, and he needed 5
years of therapy after it, and
1489
01:20:13,133 --> 01:20:15,766
during the first therapy session,
the DA was present,
1490
01:20:15,766 --> 01:20:18,133
and he also admitted that
he wanted money from him,
1491
01:20:18,133 --> 01:20:19,766
and his mother wanted money from Jackson,
and
1492
01:20:19,766 --> 01:20:22,766
his mother went to a tabloid
and sold a story as well
1493
01:20:22,766 --> 01:20:24,649
So you put all of that together,
1494
01:20:24,649 --> 01:20:26,616
and I submit that it helped us.
1495
01:20:29,583 --> 01:20:38,983
(somber music)
1496
01:20:39,899 --> 01:20:42,066
I, at that point, was
1497
01:20:42,066 --> 01:20:45,266
transferring out of the
music business program
1498
01:20:45,266 --> 01:20:46,866
and into the school of individualized study
1499
01:20:46,866 --> 01:20:49,100
So I no longer had classes with Jordan,
1500
01:20:49,100 --> 01:20:52,416
and I I believe I wrote him an email
1501
01:20:52,416 --> 01:20:54,266
I'm not 100% sure that I sent it.
1502
01:20:54,266 --> 01:20:57,133
But if I did send it,
I didn't get a response.
1503
01:20:57,133 --> 01:21:02,216
I was approached initially very
shortly after the Neverland raid
1504
01:21:02,216 --> 01:21:05,933
by people who worked for the Jackson family
1505
01:21:05,933 --> 01:21:09,466
who knew of me because
of message boards and
1506
01:21:09,466 --> 01:21:12,066
I was asked if I would give a statement,
and I did,
1507
01:21:12,066 --> 01:21:14,933
and I subsequently ended
up on the witness list, yes.
1508
01:21:14,933 --> 01:21:17,066
I mean there were certain members
1509
01:21:17,066 --> 01:21:19,466
of the Jackson entourage, I should say,
1510
01:21:19,466 --> 01:21:22,066
who wanted me to do a
little bit of a media tour, which
1511
01:21:22,066 --> 01:21:23,866
I didn't feel comfortable doing, you know?
1512
01:21:23,866 --> 01:21:27,666
During that time,
I was approached by Stacy Brown,
1513
01:21:27,666 --> 01:21:29,866
who is known by Jackson
fans as somebody who
1514
01:21:29,866 --> 01:21:32,133
used to be very supportive
of Michael Jackson
1515
01:21:32,133 --> 01:21:33,666
and was very good
friends with Rebbie Jackson
1516
01:21:33,666 --> 01:21:37,183
who then flipped and became an
1517
01:21:37,183 --> 01:21:40,066
anti-Michael Jackson force in the tabloids,
1518
01:21:40,066 --> 01:21:42,533
but during our conversations
when he would call me,
1519
01:21:42,533 --> 01:21:45,933
he was a very effusive in
his praise of Michael and
1520
01:21:45,933 --> 01:21:49,266
he would urge me to sort of, I would say,
1521
01:21:49,266 --> 01:21:51,733
plump up my Jordan Chandler story,
1522
01:21:51,733 --> 01:21:53,466
which I never feel comfortable doing.
1523
01:21:53,466 --> 01:21:57,466
I only would say,
you know exactly what I knew for a fact
1524
01:21:57,466 --> 01:21:59,933
But he'd even encouraged
me to say that I was Jordan's
1525
01:21:59,933 --> 01:22:02,016
girlfriend or that Jordan had a
crush on me or something like that,
1526
01:22:02,016 --> 01:22:06,066
and that was absolutely not true.
1527
01:22:06,066 --> 01:22:09,266
In retrospect,
knowing how he turned on Michael, I
1528
01:22:09,266 --> 01:22:12,666
I feel like he did it as like a
pre-emptive way to discredit me,
1529
01:22:12,666 --> 01:22:14,733
you know,
because if I were to lie about that,
1530
01:22:14,733 --> 01:22:16,266
it would discredit my entire story.
1531
01:22:16,266 --> 01:22:18,266
But I of course was
never willing to do that,
1532
01:22:18,266 --> 01:22:19,933
and I take this very seriously.
1533
01:22:19,933 --> 01:22:22,933
I firmly believe in due
process and you know,
1534
01:22:22,933 --> 01:22:25,533
it certainly wouldn't
have won me any favors
1535
01:22:25,533 --> 01:22:30,266
industrywide to testify in
his trial and that's something
1536
01:22:30,266 --> 01:22:32,500
that perhaps I was a
little naive about as a kid,
1537
01:22:32,500 --> 01:22:34,333
but now as somebody
who's worked in the industry,
1538
01:22:34,333 --> 01:22:35,933
I understand how things work.
1539
01:22:35,933 --> 01:22:38,866
I don't think I understood
the enormity at that time.
1540
01:22:38,866 --> 01:22:41,733
All I knew was that this was somebody whose
1541
01:22:41,733 --> 01:22:43,333
life and livelihood was on the line
1542
01:22:43,333 --> 01:22:47,066
and I had information that
could potentially help him.
1543
01:22:47,066 --> 01:22:49,533
So I felt it was my obligation in my duty.
1544
01:22:49,533 --> 01:22:55,466
His name wasn't widely known and
from my discussions in the program,
1545
01:22:55,466 --> 01:22:57,666
I don't think that there
was really anybody else
1546
01:22:57,666 --> 01:23:01,016
other than a very few people
who knew who he was, um,
1547
01:23:01,016 --> 01:23:02,699
that they don't even know is relevant.
1548
01:23:02,699 --> 01:23:04,783
No, this doesn't benefit my career at all.
1549
01:23:04,783 --> 01:23:07,899
This doesn't give me access
to anything. I'm very much
1550
01:23:07,899 --> 01:23:09,666
somebody who likes to be in the background
1551
01:23:09,666 --> 01:23:12,133
That's why I do PR and publicity.
1552
01:23:12,133 --> 01:23:15,733
I want my clients to be in the spotlight,
but I, myself,
1553
01:23:15,733 --> 01:23:19,583
you know, I kind of- would prefer to hide
1554
01:23:19,583 --> 01:23:22,616
but I'm speaking out
because you asked me to
1555
01:23:22,616 --> 01:23:25,866
and because all of this
nonsense is being rehashed and
1556
01:23:25,866 --> 01:23:29,466
relitigated in the media,
and it's ridiculous, you know?
1557
01:23:29,466 --> 01:23:33,266
I understand that people
would be skeptical of my story
1558
01:23:33,266 --> 01:23:36,783
because I am a fan and I
don't hide that I'm a fan but
1559
01:23:36,783 --> 01:23:38,733
the fact of the matter is
1560
01:23:38,733 --> 01:23:41,866
you know if I had even the slightest doubt
1561
01:23:41,866 --> 01:23:44,533
that Michael Jackson was innocent,
1562
01:23:44,533 --> 01:23:46,533
I wouldn't be speaking
out. I heard directly
1563
01:23:46,533 --> 01:23:48,216
from Jordan Chandler that he didn't believe
1564
01:23:48,216 --> 01:23:49,666
that Michael Jackson
was capable of the things
1565
01:23:49,666 --> 01:23:51,333
he was being accused of.
1566
01:23:51,333 --> 01:23:53,266
And that's very powerful.
1567
01:23:53,266 --> 01:23:55,133
You know, every allegation since is built
1568
01:23:55,133 --> 01:23:57,666
upon the original 1993 allegation
1569
01:23:57,666 --> 01:24:01,416
and I believe that if that one is false,
1570
01:24:01,416 --> 01:24:03,733
which I do believe it is false,
1571
01:24:03,733 --> 01:24:05,466
all the rest crumble.
1572
01:24:10,683 --> 01:27:50,616
(eerie music)
139129
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