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-1:59:59,567 --> 00:00:02,633
[silence]
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00:00:18,033 --> 00:00:21,100
[ominous music ♪]
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[metal jangling]
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00:00:24,133 --> 00:00:29,467
[slow footsteps]
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00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,267
♪♪
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[dog barking in distance]
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Hey!
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Hey!
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Hey!
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[barking continues]
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Hey!
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Hey!
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[District Attorney]
Good afternoon, Mr. Ward.
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00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:47,201
[Delbert]
Afternoon.
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[DA]
You live up on Johnson Road?
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00:01:49,267 --> 00:01:50,667
[Delbert]
Yes.
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00:01:50,701 --> 00:01:52,401
[DA]
You live there all your life?
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00:01:52,435 --> 00:01:54,501
[Delbert]
Yes, lived there all my life.
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00:01:54,534 --> 00:01:57,000
[DA]
And you said you
had a few brothers.
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00:01:57,033 --> 00:01:58,034
[Delbert]
Yes.
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00:01:58,068 --> 00:01:59,534
[DA]
Roscoe, Lyman, William?
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00:01:59,567 --> 00:02:00,734
[Delbert]
Yes.
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00:02:00,767 --> 00:02:02,435
[clears throat]
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00:02:02,468 --> 00:02:07,300
[DA]
Remember this question,
Mr. Ward, from the statement...
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00:02:07,334 --> 00:02:09,301
"How do you feel
about his pain?"
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00:02:09,335 --> 00:02:10,834
Remember that question
being asked?
27
00:02:10,868 --> 00:02:12,334
[Delbert]
Yes, I remember
that question being--
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00:02:12,367 --> 00:02:13,467
[DA]
Remember the answer?
29
00:02:13,501 --> 00:02:15,001
"I felt that he should
go to the doctors.
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00:02:15,034 --> 00:02:18,334
My feelings were,
that I felt Bill
would be better off
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00:02:18,367 --> 00:02:19,535
away from his pain,
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00:02:19,568 --> 00:02:22,068
so he wouldn't be in pain
and hollering anymore."
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00:02:22,101 --> 00:02:23,235
[Delbert]
Well, I remember that.
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00:02:23,268 --> 00:02:24,501
[DA]
You gave that statement,
right?
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00:02:24,534 --> 00:02:25,834
[Delbert]
Yes.
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00:02:25,868 --> 00:02:27,134
[DA]
Remember this question?
37
00:02:27,168 --> 00:02:30,734
"After Bill went to sleep,
what did you decide to do?"
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00:02:30,767 --> 00:02:33,034
[Delbert]
Yes, I remember
that question.
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00:02:33,068 --> 00:02:34,235
[DA]
Remember giving this answer?
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00:02:34,268 --> 00:02:36,701
"I decided to put my hand
over his mouth.
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00:02:36,734 --> 00:02:39,001
I reached around behind him
with my right hand
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00:02:39,034 --> 00:02:40,634
and put it over his mouth.
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00:02:40,667 --> 00:02:42,200
He struggled
for a little bit,
44
00:02:42,234 --> 00:02:43,902
but then stopped.
45
00:02:43,935 --> 00:02:47,300
I wanted to make sure that
Bill wasn't suffering
anymore, that he was dead."
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00:02:47,334 --> 00:02:48,534
[Delbert]
Yes, I remember that a--
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00:02:48,567 --> 00:02:49,901
[DA]
You remember giving
that answer?
48
00:02:49,934 --> 00:02:51,101
[Delbert]
I remember giving
that answer,
49
00:02:51,134 --> 00:02:52,901
after they showed me
how I done it down there
50
00:02:52,934 --> 00:02:54,901
and told me how I done it.
51
00:02:54,934 --> 00:02:55,901
[DA]
Remember this question?
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00:02:55,934 --> 00:02:57,367
"How long was your hand
over his mouth?"
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00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:58,268
[Delbert]
Yes.
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00:02:58,301 --> 00:02:59,701
[DA]
Answer, "About five minutes."
55
00:02:59,734 --> 00:03:00,801
[Delbert]
That's what they told me.
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00:03:00,834 --> 00:03:02,502
[DA]
Th-That's the answer
you gave.
57
00:03:02,535 --> 00:03:05,200
[Delbert]
That's the answer they told
me, then I agreed with 'em.
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00:03:05,234 --> 00:03:07,533
[cows mooing]
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00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,300
♪♪
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00:03:21,334 --> 00:03:23,200
[horse snorting]
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00:03:27,434 --> 00:03:29,700
[leaves rustling]
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00:03:33,534 --> 00:03:36,033
[birds chirping]
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00:03:39,234 --> 00:03:42,400
[car driving by]
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00:03:44,834 --> 00:03:48,034
Today, Delbert Ward is living
in the Madison County Jail.
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00:03:48,068 --> 00:03:50,667
Accused of killing
his brother and roommate.
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00:03:50,701 --> 00:03:53,968
State police report the body
of 64-year-old William Ward
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00:03:54,001 --> 00:03:56,901
was found in his bed
at 5:30 yesterday morning.
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00:03:56,934 --> 00:03:59,134
An autopsy showed
he had been suffocated.
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00:03:59,168 --> 00:04:01,567
Police believe 59-year-old
Delbert Ward
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00:04:01,601 --> 00:04:03,001
committed the crime.
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00:04:03,034 --> 00:04:04,734
Authorities don't yet know
a motive.
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00:04:04,767 --> 00:04:07,068
Everybody in Munnsville
knows the Ward boys.
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00:04:07,101 --> 00:04:09,301
Bill and Delbert used to ride
this green tractor
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00:04:09,335 --> 00:04:11,534
into town every day,
and their brothers,
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00:04:11,567 --> 00:04:14,234
Lyman and Roscoe,
they'd take the red one.
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00:04:14,267 --> 00:04:15,301
Good evening, everyone.
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00:04:15,335 --> 00:04:17,367
A man accused of killing
his brother out of mercy
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00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:18,567
is out of jail tonight.
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00:04:18,601 --> 00:04:20,235
As Christie Casciano
tells us,
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00:04:20,268 --> 00:04:22,534
an entire community stood
behind the dairy farmer
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00:04:22,567 --> 00:04:25,235
and, for Delbert Ward,
that means freedom.
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00:04:25,268 --> 00:04:27,801
[Female Reporter]
The story of Delbert Ward
starts here.
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00:04:27,834 --> 00:04:30,634
Ward lived and farmed here
with his three brothers
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00:04:30,667 --> 00:04:32,201
for most of his life.
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00:04:32,235 --> 00:04:35,401
But, life for Delbert Ward
changed on June sixth,
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00:04:35,435 --> 00:04:38,968
when his 64-year-old brother,
William died of suffocation.
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00:04:39,001 --> 00:04:41,334
Today, a judge set bail
for Delbert Ward
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00:04:41,367 --> 00:04:43,568
and Delbert's friends
posted bail.
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00:04:43,602 --> 00:04:46,801
After three weeks,
Delbert Ward
was released from jail.
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00:04:46,834 --> 00:04:48,067
[Male Reporter]
What are you gonna do first?
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00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:49,400
Goin' home to relax.
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00:04:49,434 --> 00:04:52,000
So, Delbert Ward
has cleared his first hurdle
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00:04:52,033 --> 00:04:53,201
with the law.
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00:04:53,235 --> 00:04:55,868
Even though the battle
isn't over just yet,
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00:04:55,901 --> 00:04:59,334
Delbert Ward says he has
faith in the justice system.
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00:04:59,367 --> 00:05:02,000
In Madison County,
Donna Speziale.
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00:05:02,033 --> 00:05:03,566
News Center 5.
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00:05:08,068 --> 00:05:09,334
[Male Interviewer]
Do you enjoy this work?
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00:05:09,367 --> 00:05:11,267
Sure. Always done it.
100
00:05:13,334 --> 00:05:14,700
What do you like about it?
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00:05:15,767 --> 00:05:17,367
Well, the smell of the hay.
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00:05:20,534 --> 00:05:21,868
[stammering]
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00:05:21,901 --> 00:05:23,534
If you was around here
when you first cut it,
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00:05:23,567 --> 00:05:25,601
you get the smell of it.
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00:05:25,634 --> 00:05:26,967
It smells good.
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00:05:34,335 --> 00:05:36,300
What are you
thinking about now, Delbert?
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00:05:36,334 --> 00:05:38,033
I ain't thinkin'.
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00:05:39,534 --> 00:05:41,134
Just watchin' him.
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00:05:41,168 --> 00:05:42,801
So, if he breaks down,
I go help him,
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00:05:42,834 --> 00:05:44,100
if he breaks anything.
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00:05:47,068 --> 00:05:48,367
How long is this gonna take?
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00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,001
[crickets chirping]
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00:05:51,034 --> 00:05:52,933
Gosh, it's hard to say.
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00:05:56,334 --> 00:05:58,700
If you get it all
on one load or not.
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00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,067
He don't go too fast.
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00:06:07,601 --> 00:06:09,300
Do you mind that we're
making a film about you?
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00:06:09,334 --> 00:06:10,633
No.
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00:06:11,933 --> 00:06:13,566
Don't bother me.
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00:06:15,868 --> 00:06:17,868
He went natural.
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00:06:17,901 --> 00:06:19,033
Bill died naturally?
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00:06:19,067 --> 00:06:20,067
He, uh...
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00:06:21,268 --> 00:06:24,734
He went natural,
'cause he lost
a lot of weight.
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00:06:24,767 --> 00:06:26,534
[goat bleating]
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00:06:26,567 --> 00:06:29,501
And he always complained
that his feet botherin' him.
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00:06:30,968 --> 00:06:32,900
He always walked lame.
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00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:36,900
Yup.
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00:06:38,734 --> 00:06:41,667
[indistinct mumbling]
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00:06:41,701 --> 00:06:43,733
'Cause he-he-he
got awful thin.
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00:06:45,001 --> 00:06:47,234
He lost a lot of weight.
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00:06:47,267 --> 00:06:48,601
How was he the week before?
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00:06:48,634 --> 00:06:49,667
Huh?
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00:06:49,701 --> 00:06:51,335
How was he the week before?
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00:06:51,368 --> 00:06:53,300
The week before he died.
How was Bill?
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00:06:53,334 --> 00:06:55,033
Not too hot.
135
00:06:58,367 --> 00:06:59,968
Well, you see,
back years ago,
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00:07:00,001 --> 00:07:01,900
he got cut with a chainsaw.
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00:07:02,934 --> 00:07:05,267
And that, that always
bothered him.
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00:07:08,567 --> 00:07:10,033
What happened?
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00:07:10,067 --> 00:07:11,533
Couldn't shut it off.
140
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,467
With the chainsaw,
what happened?
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00:07:14,501 --> 00:07:15,700
It cut him.
142
00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:18,634
What did the police
say to you
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00:07:18,667 --> 00:07:20,834
when you were alone
in the room with them?
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00:07:20,868 --> 00:07:22,734
- Do you remember?
- No.
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00:07:22,767 --> 00:07:24,868
'Cause I was all shook up.
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00:07:24,901 --> 00:07:26,367
Worse than I am now.
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00:07:27,434 --> 00:07:29,234
- How was it then?
- Huh?
148
00:07:29,267 --> 00:07:30,268
How was it then?
149
00:07:30,301 --> 00:07:32,667
- Oh, I was bad down there.
- Why is that?
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00:07:32,701 --> 00:07:33,801
Well, 'cause I'm nervous,
151
00:07:33,834 --> 00:07:35,800
[indistinct mumbling]
said not to bother me.
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00:07:37,868 --> 00:07:40,468
- You were nervous.
- Yeah.
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00:07:40,502 --> 00:07:43,200
Well, they said you
could have a stroke
or heart attack, you're gone.
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00:07:46,100 --> 00:07:47,300
Hm.
155
00:07:52,101 --> 00:07:54,167
We're not making you nervous,
are ya?
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00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,501
Everything makes me nervous.
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00:07:55,534 --> 00:07:57,567
'Cause always was,
ever since--
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00:07:57,601 --> 00:07:59,367
[indistinct]
- Everything makes you nervous?
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00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:00,400
Yep.
160
00:08:00,434 --> 00:08:02,234
Ever since you were
a little kid?
161
00:08:02,267 --> 00:08:03,634
Yep, always nervous.
162
00:08:03,667 --> 00:08:05,868
Why is-- do you
remember what was the...
163
00:08:05,901 --> 00:08:07,001
I don't know...
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00:08:07,034 --> 00:08:08,534
'Cause I was probably
born to be nervous.
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00:08:08,567 --> 00:08:09,667
You were born to be nervous?
166
00:08:09,701 --> 00:08:11,535
Probably.
167
00:08:11,568 --> 00:08:15,767
I ain't the only ones
nervous, there's lot of guys
around here's nervous.
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00:08:15,801 --> 00:08:17,468
Like, who else is nervous?
169
00:08:17,502 --> 00:08:19,968
Spend [indistinct]
these farmers,
you get nervous.
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00:08:20,001 --> 00:08:21,067
What makes you nervous?
171
00:08:21,100 --> 00:08:22,267
Me?
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00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:24,634
I don't know,
always been nervous.
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00:08:24,667 --> 00:08:26,000
All my life.
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00:08:27,334 --> 00:08:29,200
So, that's what I'm gonna do.
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00:08:29,234 --> 00:08:30,833
♪♪
176
00:08:31,767 --> 00:08:33,933
[indistinct mumbling]
177
00:09:08,367 --> 00:09:10,566
[dog barking in distance]
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00:09:25,601 --> 00:09:27,134
When we were down
in the courthouse,
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00:09:27,168 --> 00:09:29,501
we, we went down
just to look.
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00:09:29,534 --> 00:09:32,367
Didn't have any idea
what we were getting into.
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00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,068
And when they posted it,
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00:09:34,101 --> 00:09:39,034
the judge said that he would
let him out on $10,000 bail.
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00:09:39,068 --> 00:09:40,534
And we went down,
I went down,
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00:09:40,567 --> 00:09:42,467
she sat in a seat up there
and I went down
185
00:09:42,501 --> 00:09:45,034
where the lawyer was
explaining it to us,
186
00:09:45,068 --> 00:09:46,667
'cause we're
a bunch of dummies, you know,
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00:09:46,701 --> 00:09:49,667
we didn't know,
understand the procedure.
188
00:09:49,701 --> 00:09:52,901
And the lawyer said,
we gotta scrape up $10,000,
189
00:09:52,934 --> 00:09:54,667
so I went back
to where she sat
190
00:09:54,701 --> 00:09:56,534
and I said, "Mom," I said,
191
00:09:56,567 --> 00:09:57,868
"you got your checkbook
with you?"
192
00:09:57,901 --> 00:09:59,901
- Yep.
- And she says, "Yes."
193
00:09:59,934 --> 00:10:04,901
And I said, "Jesus Christ,
make out a check
for a thousand dollars."
194
00:10:04,934 --> 00:10:06,834
She says, "What for?"
195
00:10:06,868 --> 00:10:08,501
And I says...
196
00:10:08,534 --> 00:10:09,901
"They're doin' a lot of
talkin' down there,
197
00:10:09,934 --> 00:10:12,634
they gotta scrape up $10,000
and nobody...
198
00:10:12,667 --> 00:10:14,567
They're doin' a lot of
iffin' and andin',
199
00:10:14,601 --> 00:10:16,467
but no money."
200
00:10:16,501 --> 00:10:18,968
So, I took down the check,
hand to Charlie.
201
00:10:19,001 --> 00:10:23,334
I said, "Charlie, here's
a start for the 10,000."
202
00:10:23,367 --> 00:10:24,968
It touched the ball off.
203
00:10:25,001 --> 00:10:26,668
Hell, we had 10,000
inside of
204
00:10:26,702 --> 00:10:28,101
That's how they got our
picture.
- ...ten, fifteen minutes.
205
00:10:28,134 --> 00:10:31,068
Hell, it wouldn't hurt any
more if it'd been my kid.
206
00:10:31,101 --> 00:10:32,734
- Because...
- You wouldn't believe it.
207
00:10:32,767 --> 00:10:34,501
W-W-We knew that...
208
00:10:34,534 --> 00:10:36,968
The kid, you know, we've
known him all our life.
209
00:10:37,001 --> 00:10:38,667
He isn't a kid, but he's
younger than we are.
210
00:10:38,701 --> 00:10:41,567
Well, Christ,
he's 60 years old,
211
00:10:41,601 --> 00:10:43,133
A lot younger, a lot younger.
- ...and we're 80.
212
00:10:43,167 --> 00:10:44,368
Hell of a lot of difference.
213
00:10:44,401 --> 00:10:45,501
And after they
got his whiskers off,
he looked younger.
214
00:10:45,534 --> 00:10:46,868
Yeah.
215
00:10:46,901 --> 00:10:49,534
He looked like Jesus Christ
when they when they
brought him in.
216
00:10:49,567 --> 00:10:50,501
I imagine he's
got 'em on again.
217
00:10:50,534 --> 00:10:51,234
Did you see him
before he had his whiskers?
218
00:10:51,267 --> 00:10:52,234
[Interviewer]
Yeah.
219
00:10:52,267 --> 00:10:54,667
He made me think of
Jesus Christ all of a...
220
00:10:54,701 --> 00:10:56,734
i-in a way, you know.
221
00:10:56,767 --> 00:10:59,001
Not that he was
that big a saint,
222
00:10:59,034 --> 00:11:01,400
or anything,
you know, but, uh,
223
00:11:01,434 --> 00:11:03,400
he was never any hell raiser.
224
00:11:03,434 --> 00:11:05,268
[crickets chirping]
225
00:11:05,301 --> 00:11:08,968
The DA, I think, he wants to
be elected again next term.
226
00:11:09,001 --> 00:11:10,167
[Mr. Bishopp]
Well, I'll tell you
something...
227
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,567
And this is...
228
00:11:11,601 --> 00:11:14,001
They're just trying
to blow this thing way up.
229
00:11:14,034 --> 00:11:16,301
It's a, it's a political
thing, that's what it is.
230
00:11:16,335 --> 00:11:18,634
It's somebody to make a big
name out of it.
231
00:11:18,667 --> 00:11:21,400
They pick on somebody like
this, you know, that, uh,
232
00:11:21,434 --> 00:11:23,168
nobody'd think
anything about it, you know.
233
00:11:23,201 --> 00:11:25,067
Yeah.
- Well, they figured
they'd put him away.
234
00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:26,200
Sure.
235
00:11:26,234 --> 00:11:27,467
Put him away, and then...
236
00:11:27,501 --> 00:11:30,234
and, put the other two
in a home somewhere
237
00:11:30,267 --> 00:11:31,334
and that'd be it, you know.
238
00:11:31,367 --> 00:11:32,668
Forget about 'em.
- Yeah.
239
00:11:32,702 --> 00:11:34,901
[Mrs. Landers]
But don't you think
that Bill really just died
240
00:11:34,934 --> 00:11:36,968
because he was sick?
241
00:11:37,001 --> 00:11:41,667
Lyman said, at night, Bill...
was choking and coughing.
242
00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:42,667
Yeah.
243
00:11:42,701 --> 00:11:43,967
He was coughing.
He was coughing bad.
244
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,034
Yeah.
245
00:11:45,068 --> 00:11:47,467
Yes, but if somebody put
their hand over your mouth,
246
00:11:47,501 --> 00:11:49,235
would you fight him
a little bit?
247
00:11:49,268 --> 00:11:52,334
Why, Bill, Bill was a lot
stronger than Delbert.
248
00:11:52,367 --> 00:11:54,001
I think so, too.
249
00:11:54,034 --> 00:11:56,134
- Delbert couldn't do that!
- Art went up there...
250
00:11:56,168 --> 00:11:57,133
Not if Bill
didn't want him to.
251
00:11:57,167 --> 00:11:58,168
There's no possible way.
252
00:11:58,201 --> 00:12:00,300
They said he'd been dead
since midnight.
253
00:12:00,334 --> 00:12:01,301
That's right.
254
00:12:01,335 --> 00:12:04,201
And, and he, he's gonna
kill his own brother
255
00:12:04,235 --> 00:12:05,901
and then sleep side of him
the rest of the night
256
00:12:05,934 --> 00:12:06,901
until five o'clock
in the morning?
257
00:12:06,934 --> 00:12:08,567
That's, that's right!
That's right.
258
00:12:08,601 --> 00:12:10,566
It's just unbelievable what...
259
00:12:11,767 --> 00:12:13,001
what they're trying to pull
260
00:12:13,034 --> 00:12:14,467
and what they're
trying to do.
261
00:12:14,501 --> 00:12:16,800
[dog barking]
262
00:12:16,833 --> 00:12:20,600
♪♪
263
00:12:24,568 --> 00:12:27,801
[Interviewer]
Delbert, what happened
the morning Bill died?
264
00:12:27,834 --> 00:12:30,235
[Delbert]
Well, I got up,
I went outdoors,
265
00:12:30,268 --> 00:12:33,734
I come back in to put
my boots or shoes on.
266
00:12:33,767 --> 00:12:35,534
I hollered at him,
he didn't answer me,
267
00:12:35,567 --> 00:12:38,200
and I went in there,
and that's... where he laid.
268
00:12:39,701 --> 00:12:41,167
He was gone.
269
00:12:43,667 --> 00:12:44,867
He died, so...
270
00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:47,200
I got Roscoe up.
271
00:12:47,234 --> 00:12:48,868
I just looked at him.
272
00:12:48,901 --> 00:12:49,868
I didn't touch him
or nothing,
273
00:12:49,901 --> 00:12:52,267
just looked at him,
I see he was gone.
274
00:12:55,435 --> 00:12:57,000
[Interviewer]
Did he have a pillow
over his head?
275
00:12:57,033 --> 00:12:59,400
No!
Did not!
276
00:13:01,235 --> 00:13:02,868
Didn't have nothing,
only a blanket.
277
00:13:02,901 --> 00:13:05,334
It come up to
about here on him.
278
00:13:05,367 --> 00:13:07,267
He had a pillow
under his head.
279
00:13:09,235 --> 00:13:11,501
Laying on it,
laid his head on it,
280
00:13:11,534 --> 00:13:13,400
and he had one arm out
281
00:13:13,434 --> 00:13:15,868
like, he laid like that,
282
00:13:15,901 --> 00:13:17,501
just as though
he was sleeping.
283
00:13:21,901 --> 00:13:23,867
I can tell
when a person is dead.
284
00:13:25,534 --> 00:13:28,000
[chuckling]
You could, too.
285
00:13:29,602 --> 00:13:31,634
I didn't know what was the
matter 'til I got up there,
286
00:13:31,667 --> 00:13:33,001
and I see he was dead.
287
00:13:33,034 --> 00:13:35,801
Took hold of his arm,
his arm was flimsy.
288
00:13:35,834 --> 00:13:37,901
It wasn't stiff,
but it was flimsy.
289
00:13:37,934 --> 00:13:41,068
Kind of cool, he wasn't cold,
but he was cool.
290
00:13:41,101 --> 00:13:43,000
You could tell
that his arm was cold.
291
00:13:43,033 --> 00:13:44,334
It was cool.
292
00:13:44,367 --> 00:13:45,800
I didn't say cold.
Cool.
293
00:13:46,767 --> 00:13:48,700
Shit, I don't think
he's been dead too long.
294
00:13:50,701 --> 00:13:52,434
Th-That was six o'clock.
295
00:13:54,667 --> 00:13:58,068
[John Teeple]
The, um, EMT people arrived,
296
00:13:58,101 --> 00:14:00,300
and it's kind of
interesting in...
297
00:14:00,334 --> 00:14:02,634
a country setting like this,
298
00:14:02,667 --> 00:14:04,368
if the EMT comes,
299
00:14:04,401 --> 00:14:07,001
everybody in the Volunteer
Fire Department shows up,
300
00:14:07,034 --> 00:14:09,400
all of whom knew
the boys of course.
301
00:14:09,434 --> 00:14:12,168
I hate to call 'em "boys."
It's...
302
00:14:12,201 --> 00:14:15,667
They're known that way
i-in the county, but...
303
00:14:15,701 --> 00:14:18,467
and I'm-I'm pretty sure they
don't think it's a put down,
304
00:14:18,501 --> 00:14:20,200
but it feels like one to me.
305
00:14:20,234 --> 00:14:22,501
The morning that Bill died,
306
00:14:22,534 --> 00:14:25,868
um, John had called me,
307
00:14:25,901 --> 00:14:27,901
and I went right over
308
00:14:27,934 --> 00:14:32,634
and I was there like ten
minutes after he'd called me.
309
00:14:32,667 --> 00:14:34,534
And I said to Delbert,
310
00:14:34,567 --> 00:14:35,701
"Would you like John and I,
311
00:14:35,734 --> 00:14:37,401
what would you like
John and I to do?
312
00:14:37,435 --> 00:14:40,567
Would you like us
to do the chores here
this morning for ya?
313
00:14:40,601 --> 00:14:42,900
Help you out this morning
or something?"
314
00:14:42,933 --> 00:14:44,801
And Delbert says,
315
00:14:44,834 --> 00:14:48,501
"I would like you and John
to go get a dark suit
316
00:14:48,534 --> 00:14:50,933
and a while shirt and a tie...
317
00:14:52,501 --> 00:14:53,667
for Bill."
318
00:14:53,701 --> 00:14:55,733
[crickets chirping]
319
00:15:04,601 --> 00:15:05,900
And he cried.
320
00:15:07,667 --> 00:15:08,968
After they left that morning,
321
00:15:09,001 --> 00:15:12,467
the police were certain
it was a natural death.
322
00:15:12,501 --> 00:15:14,933
No question
in-in their mind.
323
00:15:14,967 --> 00:15:16,367
[sniffling]
324
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,868
What happened later,
apparently,
325
00:15:18,901 --> 00:15:21,300
is that the, uh...
326
00:15:21,334 --> 00:15:23,901
they did an autopsy.
327
00:15:23,934 --> 00:15:25,701
They did it
in about four hours,
328
00:15:25,734 --> 00:15:26,868
which, at least,
I've been told,
329
00:15:26,901 --> 00:15:31,002
is really not long enough
for a, a thorough autopsy.
330
00:15:31,035 --> 00:15:35,068
And I judge the first thing
they found that was really
suspicious, they stopped,
331
00:15:35,101 --> 00:15:37,235
so the police
came out here again,
332
00:15:37,268 --> 00:15:39,701
and took all three brothers
down to the barracks
333
00:15:39,734 --> 00:15:42,367
and questioned them,
and held Delbert,
334
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:43,701
who's confessed.
335
00:15:43,734 --> 00:15:45,201
[dogs barking]
336
00:15:45,235 --> 00:15:46,701
[Interviewer]
What happened that night
that they were af--
337
00:15:46,734 --> 00:15:49,901
all those men in uniforms
were asking you questions?
338
00:15:49,934 --> 00:15:51,334
What happened that night?
339
00:15:51,367 --> 00:15:52,667
Huh?
340
00:15:52,701 --> 00:15:54,467
The night all those men
were asking you questions,
341
00:15:54,501 --> 00:15:55,700
what happened that night?
342
00:15:57,168 --> 00:15:58,901
You said you were in,
in with the police,
343
00:15:58,934 --> 00:16:00,566
what happened that night?
344
00:16:01,567 --> 00:16:03,700
What kind of questions
did they ask you?
345
00:16:05,868 --> 00:16:08,534
Well, they wanted to know
if you heard any arguments,
346
00:16:08,567 --> 00:16:10,734
any noise,
347
00:16:10,767 --> 00:16:12,567
and they wanted to know
if we heard any
348
00:16:12,601 --> 00:16:15,901
guns or rifles
or anything go off.
349
00:16:15,934 --> 00:16:17,367
I told them, "No."
350
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,834
Do you think Delbert
killed Bill?
351
00:16:19,868 --> 00:16:22,033
That's what they figured,
but...
352
00:16:23,067 --> 00:16:24,334
don't nobody believe it.
353
00:16:24,367 --> 00:16:25,467
Just ain't nothing to it.
354
00:16:26,534 --> 00:16:30,733
[stammering]
But everybody I talk to
tells it.
355
00:16:32,101 --> 00:16:34,400
What else, what else
did they ask you that night?
356
00:16:34,434 --> 00:16:36,367
Did they make you
sign something?
357
00:16:38,001 --> 00:16:39,667
Did you have to sign a paper?
358
00:16:39,701 --> 00:16:41,634
Just your name.
359
00:16:41,667 --> 00:16:43,701
I wouldn't sign nothin',
but just my name.
360
00:16:43,734 --> 00:16:44,800
They asked you
to sign your name?
361
00:16:44,833 --> 00:16:45,634
Yep.
362
00:16:45,667 --> 00:16:47,400
Did you read what you signed?
363
00:16:49,434 --> 00:16:51,367
Yes... it was...
364
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,000
'bout, 'bout the murder
and stuff.
365
00:16:55,834 --> 00:16:57,701
Brother Bill, yeah, that's...
366
00:16:57,734 --> 00:16:58,901
They had that on there.
367
00:16:58,934 --> 00:17:01,300
[Delbert]
You didn't read no papers
down there.
368
00:17:01,334 --> 00:17:02,701
Not right out loud.
369
00:17:02,734 --> 00:17:04,467
One cop did.
370
00:17:04,501 --> 00:17:05,567
He says,
"There anything to it?"
371
00:17:05,601 --> 00:17:07,300
I said, "No."
372
00:17:07,334 --> 00:17:09,001
Delbert, can Roscoe read?
373
00:17:09,034 --> 00:17:10,834
Not very good, I don't think.
374
00:17:10,868 --> 00:17:12,133
I don't think he read it.
375
00:17:13,034 --> 00:17:16,701
Oh, yeah.
They was awful quizzy, but...
376
00:17:16,734 --> 00:17:18,400
I didn't know
nothing about it.
377
00:17:19,368 --> 00:17:21,334
What do you think's
gonna happen now?
378
00:17:23,834 --> 00:17:26,000
Well, they figured
Delbert killed him.
379
00:17:27,901 --> 00:17:30,000
There was nothin' to it.
380
00:17:30,033 --> 00:17:31,267
Not true?
381
00:17:33,267 --> 00:17:35,434
No, not true.
382
00:17:35,467 --> 00:17:36,933
It's not true.
383
00:17:40,234 --> 00:17:43,033
Just as I said,
and always will,
384
00:17:43,067 --> 00:17:44,700
he went on his own.
385
00:17:48,535 --> 00:17:51,401
[Captain Loszynski]
After, uh, doing the
preliminary investigation,
386
00:17:51,435 --> 00:17:54,968
which was in the early
morning hours of June sixth,
387
00:17:55,001 --> 00:17:59,235
uh, I received a phone call
at approximately 5:30 PM
388
00:17:59,268 --> 00:18:02,534
from the Medical Examiner's
office in Syracuse
389
00:18:02,567 --> 00:18:04,701
regarding the cause
and manner of death
390
00:18:04,734 --> 00:18:06,534
of William Ward.
391
00:18:06,567 --> 00:18:09,635
Uh, the call was from
Doctor Germaniuk,
392
00:18:09,668 --> 00:18:13,834
in which he explained
that he had discovered
certain medical evidence
393
00:18:13,868 --> 00:18:18,301
which suggest that the death
was of suspicious origin,
394
00:18:18,335 --> 00:18:22,001
and that we should proceed
with a investigation, uh,
395
00:18:22,034 --> 00:18:24,334
regarding the circumstances
396
00:18:24,367 --> 00:18:27,734
uh, of William Ward's,
uh, death.
397
00:18:27,767 --> 00:18:30,067
[dog barking in distance]
398
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:33,400
[ominous music ♪]
399
00:18:36,635 --> 00:18:39,000
[District Attorney]
You telling us you told the
truth to this jury today?
400
00:18:39,033 --> 00:18:40,701
[Delbert]
Yes.
401
00:18:40,734 --> 00:18:43,067
I'm telling you,
I told the truth.
402
00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:45,501
You telling us...
403
00:18:45,534 --> 00:18:46,667
that you didn't kill
your brother?
404
00:18:46,701 --> 00:18:47,733
I didn't kill him.
405
00:18:49,101 --> 00:18:51,300
Sir, in your statement,
you admit to killing
your brother.
406
00:18:51,334 --> 00:18:52,467
I know I did,
407
00:18:52,501 --> 00:18:53,968
but I didn't know
what I was saying.
408
00:18:54,001 --> 00:18:57,168
Sir, this was
your best friend,
409
00:18:57,201 --> 00:18:59,634
and you told the police that
night that you killed him.
410
00:18:59,667 --> 00:19:01,901
Yes, I told the police that,
that night.
411
00:19:01,934 --> 00:19:03,801
That was the truth that night
when you told them?
412
00:19:03,834 --> 00:19:05,501
No, 'cause it
wasn't really the truth
413
00:19:05,534 --> 00:19:07,201
'cause I didn't know
what I was sayin'.
414
00:19:07,235 --> 00:19:09,234
You know the difference
between a truth and a lie,
415
00:19:09,267 --> 00:19:10,300
don't you?
416
00:19:11,534 --> 00:19:13,434
Maybe, maybe not.
417
00:19:14,267 --> 00:19:17,867
[wooden leg squeaking]
418
00:19:38,201 --> 00:19:40,234
There's a lot of history
in this place.
419
00:19:45,767 --> 00:19:48,900
I seen some of the kids
I grew up with on my way in.
420
00:19:54,667 --> 00:19:56,400
[Interviewer]
Do you know where it is?
421
00:19:56,434 --> 00:19:58,167
No, not for sure.
422
00:19:59,101 --> 00:20:01,734
It's, it's a wooden one,
though, right?
423
00:20:01,767 --> 00:20:03,501
We heard it's a wooden heart.
424
00:20:03,534 --> 00:20:05,533
[birds chirping]
425
00:20:08,934 --> 00:20:12,533
[wooden leg squeaking]
426
00:20:15,268 --> 00:20:17,566
Christ, there's a lot
of people here I know.
427
00:20:20,267 --> 00:20:22,334
That one right there
must be it.
428
00:20:29,334 --> 00:20:30,567
People shouldn't
be treated that way
429
00:20:30,601 --> 00:20:32,034
just 'cause they're stupid.
430
00:20:32,068 --> 00:20:34,235
Not really stupid,
uneducated.
431
00:20:34,268 --> 00:20:36,201
Now, any investigator
in his right mind,
432
00:20:36,235 --> 00:20:39,234
when they started
interrogating these boys
433
00:20:39,267 --> 00:20:40,501
shoulda known
434
00:20:41,567 --> 00:20:44,368
that they didn't have the
schoolin' and the stuff
435
00:20:44,401 --> 00:20:47,967
to enable them to do anything
without an attorney.
436
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,267
Shoulda known it.
437
00:20:50,300 --> 00:20:51,867
They're intelligent people,
438
00:20:53,001 --> 00:20:56,567
but yet, they questioned them
all without an attorney,
439
00:20:56,601 --> 00:20:58,868
and Delbert, to this day,
don't know what the hell
440
00:20:58,901 --> 00:21:00,533
"to waive his rights" means.
441
00:21:02,868 --> 00:21:04,400
It's just some words to him.
442
00:21:04,434 --> 00:21:05,868
I said,
"What did you waive Delbert?"
443
00:21:05,901 --> 00:21:07,034
I ask him straight out.
444
00:21:07,068 --> 00:21:08,734
I said, "when you did that?"
445
00:21:08,767 --> 00:21:10,067
"I don't know."
446
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:12,068
That's his answer.
447
00:21:12,101 --> 00:21:13,868
I asked him again last week,
I says,
448
00:21:13,901 --> 00:21:15,734
"What did you waive
when you waived your rights?"
449
00:21:15,767 --> 00:21:17,167
He still don't know.
450
00:21:18,367 --> 00:21:19,901
He waived his rights,
but he don't know
451
00:21:19,934 --> 00:21:21,634
what the hell he waived.
452
00:21:21,667 --> 00:21:23,501
That might've been somebody
walkin' down the street
453
00:21:23,534 --> 00:21:25,367
he was wavin' at.
454
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,201
That's the truth.
455
00:21:27,235 --> 00:21:29,501
I mean,
it's foolish as it sounds,
456
00:21:29,534 --> 00:21:31,467
it's-it's
the God's honest truth.
457
00:21:32,434 --> 00:21:35,968
So, how can you charge
somebody like that?
458
00:21:36,001 --> 00:21:37,901
How could you took the
statement to begin with
459
00:21:37,934 --> 00:21:40,634
from him like that without
having a lawyer present?
460
00:21:40,667 --> 00:21:42,001
The confession of Delbert,
461
00:21:42,034 --> 00:21:44,901
uh, which was obtained here
at the barracks,
462
00:21:44,934 --> 00:21:48,368
um, consisted upon, or
consisted of, uh,
463
00:21:48,401 --> 00:21:51,167
Delbert telling
State Police investigators
464
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,201
that, uh...
465
00:21:53,235 --> 00:21:57,134
uh, he had thought about,
um, killing William,
466
00:21:57,168 --> 00:22:01,068
uh, because of, uh, the
suffering that he had, uh,
467
00:22:01,101 --> 00:22:03,167
observed Wi-William
going through
468
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,034
over the last several months,
469
00:22:05,068 --> 00:22:09,235
uh, and he focused in
on extreme headaches
470
00:22:09,268 --> 00:22:12,133
and stomach problems, and he
had a problem with his foot
471
00:22:12,167 --> 00:22:14,467
that the cow had stepped on,
472
00:22:14,501 --> 00:22:17,667
and he based, basically,
his-his criminal conduct,
473
00:22:17,701 --> 00:22:19,033
in killing William,
474
00:22:19,067 --> 00:22:21,034
on the fact that, uh,
475
00:22:21,068 --> 00:22:23,234
he felt William
was going through, uh,
476
00:22:23,267 --> 00:22:25,234
an extreme amount of pain,
477
00:22:25,267 --> 00:22:29,001
and that, uh,
he felt that, uh,
478
00:22:29,034 --> 00:22:31,167
he would kill his brother for
these reasons.
479
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,001
[wind blowing]
480
00:22:34,034 --> 00:22:36,967
[Interviewer]
Roscoe, what's your
best memory of Bill?
481
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,033
Roscoe?
482
00:22:38,067 --> 00:22:39,034
Huh?
483
00:22:39,068 --> 00:22:41,067
What's your
best memory of Bill?
484
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:42,034
Huh?
485
00:22:42,068 --> 00:22:44,234
What's your
best memory of Bill?
486
00:22:46,833 --> 00:22:48,567
Best band?
487
00:22:48,601 --> 00:22:49,834
[laughing]
488
00:22:49,868 --> 00:22:50,834
I didn't hear ya, now.
489
00:22:50,868 --> 00:22:52,034
[Delbert]
He don't hear you.
490
00:22:52,068 --> 00:22:53,567
[Lyman]
He can't hear nothing.
491
00:22:53,601 --> 00:22:55,334
Huh?
492
00:22:55,367 --> 00:22:56,367
[Interviewer]
I-I didn't understand.
493
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,700
What was your
best memory of him?
494
00:22:57,733 --> 00:22:58,534
Huh?
495
00:22:58,567 --> 00:22:59,133
What's your...
496
00:23:00,368 --> 00:23:02,667
[laughing]
It's okay if you're
on the film, Joe.
497
00:23:02,701 --> 00:23:04,034
[Interviewer, Joe]
I-I don't wanna be
in the film.
498
00:23:04,068 --> 00:23:05,968
I'm gonna stay here,
and you stay here, okay?
499
00:23:06,001 --> 00:23:08,167
And just tell me what your
best memory of Bill is.
500
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,367
The best memory?
501
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,200
Well, we went to Oneida.
502
00:23:11,868 --> 00:23:13,300
We got our groceries.
503
00:23:14,368 --> 00:23:17,600
He got his stuff he wanted
for to fix his water.
504
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,534
Done all his chores,
505
00:23:21,567 --> 00:23:23,968
had supper,
506
00:23:24,001 --> 00:23:25,235
and went to bed about,
507
00:23:25,268 --> 00:23:28,701
about nine o'clock,
wasn't it, Delbert?
508
00:23:28,734 --> 00:23:30,334
Around nine o'clock
or a little after,
509
00:23:30,367 --> 00:23:32,534
[metal jangling]
510
00:23:32,567 --> 00:23:34,334
and I thought I was gonna
see him the next morning,
511
00:23:34,367 --> 00:23:35,367
and I didn't.
512
00:23:38,034 --> 00:23:39,234
How'd you feel about that?
513
00:23:39,267 --> 00:23:40,533
Bad.
514
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,766
'Cause he's gone.
515
00:23:45,767 --> 00:23:47,001
If somebody put hands,
516
00:23:47,034 --> 00:23:48,335
put their hands
over his mouth,
517
00:23:48,368 --> 00:23:50,533
he'd have to have marks
on him wouldn't he?
518
00:23:54,201 --> 00:23:56,200
And he didn't have
no marks on him.
519
00:23:56,234 --> 00:23:58,067
[crickets chirping]
520
00:23:59,435 --> 00:24:01,334
[Interviewer]
They said there was
a pillow over his face.
521
00:24:01,367 --> 00:24:03,068
Well, they put that
over there.
522
00:24:03,101 --> 00:24:04,734
Who put the pillow over him?
523
00:24:04,767 --> 00:24:06,501
The police, I think.
524
00:24:06,534 --> 00:24:07,734
[cat mewing]
525
00:24:07,767 --> 00:24:09,134
'Cause the...
526
00:24:09,168 --> 00:24:11,901
the first time I,
they show me his pictures,
527
00:24:11,934 --> 00:24:15,301
he laid just the way I found
him, with nothing over him.
528
00:24:15,335 --> 00:24:18,634
Then they took me down there
to the courthouse again,
529
00:24:18,667 --> 00:24:20,234
and that's when they
showed him with a...
530
00:24:20,267 --> 00:24:22,501
pillow over, over his face.
531
00:24:24,468 --> 00:24:27,134
Why would the police put
a pillow over Bill's face?
532
00:24:27,168 --> 00:24:30,434
Well, 'cause they want
this right here.
533
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,234
Right here.
534
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,867
They want this land.
535
00:24:39,934 --> 00:24:43,068
We know, for a fact, that
two of the State Troopers
536
00:24:43,101 --> 00:24:45,701
who interviewed
a neighbor of Delbert's,
537
00:24:45,734 --> 00:24:47,801
in addition
to asking about the case,
538
00:24:47,834 --> 00:24:50,667
asked if the neighbor was
willing to sell his property.
539
00:24:50,701 --> 00:24:52,335
Now, you've gotta remember
540
00:24:52,368 --> 00:24:55,001
that we're talking about
an area in Madison County
541
00:24:55,034 --> 00:24:57,068
that's right on
the, the edge of becoming
542
00:24:57,101 --> 00:24:59,734
a very, very suburban type
of an area,
543
00:24:59,767 --> 00:25:02,400
so that these farms
a-are worth a lot of money
544
00:25:02,434 --> 00:25:03,900
to a developer.
545
00:25:03,933 --> 00:25:05,667
If it's true...
546
00:25:05,701 --> 00:25:07,668
it's one of the most
disgusting things
547
00:25:07,702 --> 00:25:11,701
that I've seen as a,
as an attorney
in-in 13 or 14 years.
548
00:25:11,734 --> 00:25:15,801
To think that somebody, uh,
for purely monetary gain,
549
00:25:15,834 --> 00:25:21,034
would, uh, convince somebody
t-t-to write a confession,
550
00:25:21,068 --> 00:25:24,467
or even worse,
put words into his mouth.
551
00:25:24,501 --> 00:25:26,235
I cannot fathom
552
00:25:26,268 --> 00:25:30,001
that there would be any
reason whatsoever for anybody
553
00:25:30,034 --> 00:25:32,168
to want to have
acquired that land,
554
00:25:32,201 --> 00:25:36,368
other than another farmer
to use it as farm land.
555
00:25:36,401 --> 00:25:40,034
Uh, and to suggest that any
of the State Police officers
556
00:25:40,068 --> 00:25:42,201
involved in the investigation
557
00:25:42,235 --> 00:25:44,334
would even consider doing
something like that
558
00:25:44,367 --> 00:25:46,033
is just ludicrous.
559
00:25:46,067 --> 00:25:47,467
♪♪
560
00:25:57,301 --> 00:25:59,300
[Jerry Reid]
If anybody ever
grew up on a farm,
561
00:25:59,334 --> 00:26:01,468
when a cow has a calf,
562
00:26:01,502 --> 00:26:05,235
a lot of times, they get
paralyzed in their backsides,
563
00:26:05,268 --> 00:26:07,367
and they have trouble
gettin' up,
564
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,068
and if you don't make 'em
get up,
565
00:26:09,101 --> 00:26:13,001
they can't clean themselves
of afterbirth.
566
00:26:13,034 --> 00:26:15,001
So, it's a very common
practice
567
00:26:15,034 --> 00:26:18,167
amongst any and all farmers,
568
00:26:19,502 --> 00:26:22,501
to hold the nostrils
and the mouth of a cow
that's down,
569
00:26:22,534 --> 00:26:24,067
and once she gets
short of breath,
570
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:25,300
she'll just jump right up,
571
00:26:25,334 --> 00:26:26,800
and she'll be
healthy as ever.
572
00:26:28,101 --> 00:26:30,666
I still feel,
from the beginning,
573
00:26:32,001 --> 00:26:34,201
that that's all
that Delbert was trying to do
574
00:26:34,235 --> 00:26:36,634
was to treat his brother
like a cow
575
00:26:36,667 --> 00:26:37,933
because that's all he knew.
576
00:26:39,101 --> 00:26:41,834
He was just trying to make
him get up and go, I think.
577
00:26:41,868 --> 00:26:46,868
I have no qualms in my mind,
he died in his sleep.
578
00:26:46,901 --> 00:26:49,634
For these guys, time stopped...
579
00:26:49,667 --> 00:26:51,501
back in the days
when they were growing up.
580
00:26:51,534 --> 00:26:53,034
They were poor.
581
00:26:53,068 --> 00:26:57,001
Uh, if they had an animal
in pain...
582
00:26:57,034 --> 00:26:59,001
the animal,
they wouldn't let
the animal suffer,
583
00:26:59,034 --> 00:27:00,301
they'd put it
out of its misery.
584
00:27:00,335 --> 00:27:02,733
That's the type of thing,
that's the way they think,
585
00:27:02,766 --> 00:27:03,901
and...
586
00:27:03,934 --> 00:27:06,501
for two brothers who loved
each other like they did,
587
00:27:06,534 --> 00:27:07,633
to...
588
00:27:08,434 --> 00:27:10,734
for one to watch
the other in pain,
589
00:27:10,767 --> 00:27:14,134
day after day after day, uh...
590
00:27:14,168 --> 00:27:17,400
you know, it's very likely
that the man, you know,
591
00:27:17,434 --> 00:27:20,335
they agreed between
themselves, I'm sure,
592
00:27:20,368 --> 00:27:22,968
and Delbert didn't wanna see
him suffer anymore,
593
00:27:23,001 --> 00:27:24,167
and he took his life.
594
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:25,600
♪♪
595
00:27:40,502 --> 00:27:41,701
[Interviewer]
You looking forward
to tonight?
596
00:27:41,734 --> 00:27:42,734
[Roscoe]
Yeah.
597
00:27:42,767 --> 00:27:43,734
You gonna dance?
598
00:27:43,767 --> 00:27:45,033
I'm gonna dance.
Are you gonna dance?
599
00:27:45,067 --> 00:27:46,100
Yeah.
600
00:27:46,133 --> 00:27:47,300
Did you get a shave today?
601
00:27:47,334 --> 00:27:48,234
Who, me?
602
00:27:48,267 --> 00:27:50,033
Yeah.
I cut 'em off.
603
00:27:50,067 --> 00:27:51,200
Why?
604
00:27:51,234 --> 00:27:52,501
For tonight.
605
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,000
They got a little too long.
606
00:27:55,033 --> 00:27:56,033
What got too long?
607
00:27:56,067 --> 00:27:57,334
Whiskers.
608
00:27:57,367 --> 00:27:58,467
So, you cut 'em off?
609
00:27:58,501 --> 00:27:59,534
I did.
610
00:27:59,567 --> 00:28:01,133
I didn't get 'em all,
but I got,
611
00:28:01,167 --> 00:28:02,667
I got the most of 'em.
612
00:28:02,701 --> 00:28:03,867
♪♪
613
00:28:12,434 --> 00:28:13,766
[Roscoe]
Hi!
614
00:28:14,534 --> 00:28:16,134
[Woman]
You're Lyman.
615
00:28:16,168 --> 00:28:17,834
Lyman's right out there,
he's comin'.
616
00:28:17,868 --> 00:28:19,234
- Oh, you're Roscoe.
- Right.
617
00:28:19,267 --> 00:28:20,667
- Want me to help ya?
- No.
618
00:28:20,701 --> 00:28:21,734
Oh, I will.
619
00:28:21,767 --> 00:28:23,067
I should know
all these boys by now.
620
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:24,801
I know it, I know it.
621
00:28:24,834 --> 00:28:26,067
We're cousins.
622
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:27,400
That's right.
623
00:28:27,434 --> 00:28:29,100
Oh, but you don't cry.
624
00:28:33,535 --> 00:28:35,400
[Interviewer]
What's for,
what's for dinner?
625
00:28:35,434 --> 00:28:37,501
Well, we got
a little bit of everything,
626
00:28:37,534 --> 00:28:38,601
whatever you wish.
627
00:28:38,634 --> 00:28:40,701
Baked beans,
scalloped potatoes...
628
00:28:40,734 --> 00:28:42,834
Fruit salad, macaroni salad.
629
00:28:42,868 --> 00:28:45,601
I'll tell you something
I bet you've never had,
630
00:28:45,634 --> 00:28:48,133
barbecued venison
in the crock pot.
631
00:28:48,167 --> 00:28:49,400
Barbecued venison?
632
00:28:49,434 --> 00:28:50,734
Yeah.
633
00:28:50,767 --> 00:28:53,601
[overlapping chatter]
634
00:28:53,634 --> 00:28:55,367
[Reporter]
Delbert, laugh!
635
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,400
[laughing]
- Yep.
636
00:28:59,034 --> 00:29:00,968
What do you think
of this whole, uh,
637
00:29:01,001 --> 00:29:03,367
this whole party
put together for you?
638
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:04,634
I think it's good.
639
00:29:04,667 --> 00:29:06,201
Why do you think
they're doing all this?
640
00:29:06,235 --> 00:29:08,201
To help me,
they're all my good friends.
641
00:29:08,235 --> 00:29:10,801
All these people,
obviously, are behind you
642
00:29:10,834 --> 00:29:12,133
in saying
you didn't kill your brother.
643
00:29:12,167 --> 00:29:13,667
That's right, I didn't.
644
00:29:13,701 --> 00:29:14,867
You didn't.
645
00:29:15,901 --> 00:29:17,000
A lot of people are saying,
if you did...
646
00:29:19,168 --> 00:29:21,201
I mean, a lot of people who
are supporting you
647
00:29:21,235 --> 00:29:23,034
are saying, well, they don't
know if you did or didn't,
648
00:29:23,068 --> 00:29:24,467
but if you did,
it was a mercy killing.
649
00:29:24,501 --> 00:29:26,133
Any response to that?
650
00:29:26,167 --> 00:29:27,901
I don't think much about it.
651
00:29:27,934 --> 00:29:29,534
We believe
this man is innocent,
652
00:29:29,567 --> 00:29:31,400
and that's why, uh,
we're at this party.
653
00:29:32,601 --> 00:29:34,167
We believed it right
from the very beginning,
654
00:29:35,534 --> 00:29:37,167
and we always
will believe it.
655
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,434
[Interviewer]
Why?
656
00:29:40,234 --> 00:29:42,033
This is not
the type of man
657
00:29:43,101 --> 00:29:46,367
to commit such a,
a vicious crime.
658
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,634
He, he's just not
built that way.
659
00:29:49,667 --> 00:29:52,833
He's a, an easy going,
lovable individual,
660
00:29:54,068 --> 00:29:57,701
and I sincerely believe that
this man will be acquitted,
661
00:29:57,734 --> 00:30:00,033
and my wife
believes the same thing.
662
00:30:00,067 --> 00:30:01,301
Did-Did you know him?
663
00:30:01,335 --> 00:30:04,700
Do I know him?
Well, my, uh, my nephew...
664
00:30:05,701 --> 00:30:09,968
is... that's-that's-that would
be his uncle,
665
00:30:10,001 --> 00:30:11,967
and I've met him before,
666
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,268
a few times,
667
00:30:13,301 --> 00:30:18,168
and he's a very, very fine
talking, uh, individual,
668
00:30:18,201 --> 00:30:22,367
who never should've been
arrested at no time.
669
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:23,367
Okay.
670
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,934
Coming in three, two...
671
00:30:25,968 --> 00:30:27,901
A murder trial
is nothing that unusual
672
00:30:27,934 --> 00:30:29,301
for central New York.
673
00:30:29,335 --> 00:30:31,968
What is unusual here
is the national
media attention
674
00:30:32,001 --> 00:30:33,901
this is getting,
and the crowds of people
675
00:30:33,934 --> 00:30:37,033
who have come out to support
the accused killer.
676
00:30:38,534 --> 00:30:39,901
One more.
677
00:30:39,934 --> 00:30:43,368
A murder case is nothing that
unusual for central New York.
678
00:30:43,401 --> 00:30:45,968
What is unusual here
is the national
media attention
679
00:30:46,001 --> 00:30:48,068
this is getting,
and the crowds of people
680
00:30:48,101 --> 00:30:50,700
who have come out to support
the accused killer.
681
00:30:53,534 --> 00:30:56,667
[country music playing ♪]
682
00:30:56,701 --> 00:31:00,367
[people whooping]
683
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:23,634
Two...one...
684
00:31:23,667 --> 00:31:24,834
Delbert Ward will return
685
00:31:24,868 --> 00:31:26,868
to Madison County Courthouse
next week,
686
00:31:26,901 --> 00:31:28,300
so attorneys on both sides
687
00:31:28,334 --> 00:31:30,001
can present evidence
to the judge.
688
00:31:30,034 --> 00:31:31,301
Friends here seem optimistic,
689
00:31:31,335 --> 00:31:33,367
but they say it's frustrating
to know that,
690
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:34,567
despite all their efforts,
691
00:31:34,601 --> 00:31:37,234
all they can really do
is sit and wait.
692
00:31:37,267 --> 00:31:39,067
Allison Alexander,
News Center.
693
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:41,334
[party chatter]
694
00:31:41,367 --> 00:31:42,766
♪♪
695
00:32:09,068 --> 00:32:12,501
I really think
that most people
696
00:32:12,534 --> 00:32:15,467
thought that they
minded their own business.
697
00:32:15,501 --> 00:32:17,501
They were different.
698
00:32:17,534 --> 00:32:19,634
As long as they
didn't step on your feet,
699
00:32:19,667 --> 00:32:21,068
why the hell were you
gonna step on theirs?
700
00:32:21,101 --> 00:32:24,701
Well now, like, going in down
to the confections store,
701
00:32:24,734 --> 00:32:25,633
or whatever to eat,
702
00:32:26,767 --> 00:32:31,634
I kind of hate to eat after
they did, wouldn't you?
703
00:32:31,667 --> 00:32:33,667
You wouldn't, you know...
- You know, wouldn't...
704
00:32:33,701 --> 00:32:35,567
You wouldn't go right down
and plunk your ass down
705
00:32:35,601 --> 00:32:37,267
on the same table that they
were sitting at.
706
00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:38,502
Same chair...
707
00:32:38,535 --> 00:32:42,634
You'd move over a little bit,
'cause hell, uh, the smell.
708
00:32:42,667 --> 00:32:43,834
Might get the best of ya.
709
00:32:43,868 --> 00:32:46,201
You know they sweat...
- [Mrs. Geisler laughing]
710
00:32:46,235 --> 00:32:48,834
They worked and, hell, I
don't think they changed
their clothes
711
00:32:48,868 --> 00:32:50,667
in maybe six months,
712
00:32:50,701 --> 00:32:51,934
unless they...
- No.
713
00:32:51,968 --> 00:32:53,834
...went to a funeral
or something like that.
714
00:32:53,868 --> 00:32:55,534
But they went,
uh...
715
00:32:55,567 --> 00:32:56,868
the girls' weddings.
- Yeah.
716
00:32:56,901 --> 00:32:57,968
And then they were
dressed up.
- Yeah.
717
00:32:58,001 --> 00:32:59,567
[Interviewer]
And yet, you helped them.
718
00:32:59,601 --> 00:33:02,667
That's right,
and I'd, I'd help 'em again.
719
00:33:02,701 --> 00:33:04,201
Yeah, they went to the, to
the girls' weddings,
720
00:33:04,235 --> 00:33:07,168
Hell, they're a part
of this damn community.
- 'cause we did, too.
721
00:33:07,201 --> 00:33:09,167
We've never had
a murder here,
722
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,034
as I ever remember.
723
00:33:11,068 --> 00:33:13,467
There's always been
this antagonism
724
00:33:13,501 --> 00:33:17,001
between the big city
a-and the rural areas.
725
00:33:17,034 --> 00:33:20,468
You know, if, if you
are born in the rural area
726
00:33:20,502 --> 00:33:22,967
and make it good,
it must mean
you go to the city
727
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,367
and make it good.
728
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:26,868
It's not,
you go down the road
729
00:33:26,901 --> 00:33:27,901
and start your own business.
730
00:33:27,934 --> 00:33:30,735
It's, you go to the city
and make it big.
731
00:33:30,768 --> 00:33:36,000
And city people, I think,
are inclined to look at
country people as bumpkins.
732
00:33:36,033 --> 00:33:37,034
As, uh...
733
00:33:37,068 --> 00:33:39,834
probably not terribly bright,
734
00:33:39,868 --> 00:33:42,634
and maybe, not awfully
strongly moti--motivated,
735
00:33:42,667 --> 00:33:45,201
and nothing can be further
from the truth if you see,
736
00:33:45,235 --> 00:33:47,267
see the way some of
these farmers work,
737
00:33:48,901 --> 00:33:52,634
and I suspect
the city stereotype
738
00:33:52,667 --> 00:33:55,367
is probably within the heads
of the BCI
739
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,801
and the District Attorney,
740
00:33:56,834 --> 00:33:58,001
and they probably
don't know it,
741
00:33:58,034 --> 00:34:00,701
it's just, it's part of
the culture that you think
742
00:34:00,734 --> 00:34:03,133
rural area is that way,
you see,
743
00:34:03,167 --> 00:34:05,067
and I-I think...
744
00:34:07,334 --> 00:34:09,000
I think, maybe...
745
00:34:09,033 --> 00:34:10,235
that...
746
00:34:10,268 --> 00:34:15,868
part of the drawing together
of Munnsville behind Delbert
747
00:34:15,901 --> 00:34:18,801
is that the
"We against Them,"
748
00:34:18,834 --> 00:34:22,401
them being the, in quotes,
"Big City DA,"
749
00:34:22,435 --> 00:34:25,234
trying to get poor Delbert
up there on the hills.
750
00:34:25,267 --> 00:34:26,700
♪♪
751
00:34:40,334 --> 00:34:42,168
[car honking]
752
00:34:42,201 --> 00:34:44,401
[Thurston]
The boys never got
any attention before.
753
00:34:44,435 --> 00:34:47,801
When they had them dances
and stuff for him down here
754
00:34:47,834 --> 00:34:50,133
and put on the benefits,
755
00:34:50,167 --> 00:34:51,833
to Delbert, that was a party.
756
00:34:53,168 --> 00:34:54,567
He didn't realize,
I don't think,
757
00:34:54,601 --> 00:34:57,001
that we was trying to raise
money for his defense
758
00:34:57,034 --> 00:34:58,467
so he wouldn't go to prison.
759
00:34:58,501 --> 00:35:01,734
Nobody'd ever give
the Ward boys a party.
760
00:35:01,767 --> 00:35:02,967
Not ever in their life.
761
00:35:04,134 --> 00:35:06,801
So, here, all of a sudden,
is all these goddamn people
762
00:35:06,834 --> 00:35:08,701
crowded around
and giving him a big party
763
00:35:08,734 --> 00:35:11,000
and Delbert's dancing,
the first time in his life.
764
00:35:11,033 --> 00:35:11,968
[cow mooing]
765
00:35:12,001 --> 00:35:13,634
People coming up
and asking him to dance,
766
00:35:13,667 --> 00:35:15,201
and hell, they wouldn't have
danced with him before,
767
00:35:15,235 --> 00:35:17,467
for Christ's sakes,
if you had paid 'em to.
768
00:35:17,501 --> 00:35:20,567
From what it appears,
uh, in the area,
769
00:35:20,601 --> 00:35:23,034
the Wards were kind of
outcast people.
770
00:35:23,068 --> 00:35:24,701
You know, they weren't
generally accepted
771
00:35:24,734 --> 00:35:25,901
down there,
772
00:35:25,934 --> 00:35:29,201
and it's one thing for...
773
00:35:29,235 --> 00:35:33,034
the people who live there to
consider somebody an outcast,
774
00:35:33,068 --> 00:35:35,001
but he was still
their outcast.
775
00:35:35,034 --> 00:35:37,634
You know, if it
comes up to somebody else
776
00:35:37,667 --> 00:35:41,534
looking into
the, the lifestyles
of people down there
777
00:35:41,567 --> 00:35:44,068
and accusing them
of something, it's...
778
00:35:44,101 --> 00:35:46,367
I find it's natural,
in some of these rural areas,
779
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,134
that people stick together.
780
00:35:48,168 --> 00:35:51,300
They stick by their own,
the people in the area.
781
00:35:51,334 --> 00:35:54,334
And that they went to,
went to back him
782
00:35:54,367 --> 00:35:56,334
as being an underdog,
783
00:35:56,367 --> 00:35:59,834
not caring really,
in my estimation,
784
00:35:59,868 --> 00:36:02,400
whether he was right
or wrong, at that point.
785
00:36:02,434 --> 00:36:04,334
He was just one of theirs.
786
00:36:04,367 --> 00:36:06,468
Delbert told me...
787
00:36:06,502 --> 00:36:10,467
that they were asking him all
kinds of questions,
788
00:36:10,501 --> 00:36:12,534
and he was saying yes and no,
789
00:36:12,567 --> 00:36:13,834
and he was getting tired,
790
00:36:13,868 --> 00:36:16,001
and one of the troopers
said to him,
791
00:36:16,034 --> 00:36:19,033
"Delbert, if you sign
this paper right here,
I'll take you home.
792
00:36:19,067 --> 00:36:21,201
I see you're tired."
793
00:36:21,235 --> 00:36:22,868
And Delbert said,
"I signed the papers,
794
00:36:22,901 --> 00:36:25,834
and he slapped the handcuffs
right on me.
795
00:36:25,868 --> 00:36:28,067
Took me to the lockup."
796
00:36:32,267 --> 00:36:34,133
Makes you wonder, don't it?
797
00:36:34,167 --> 00:36:36,533
[dogs barking]
798
00:36:41,001 --> 00:36:42,867
The first time
I was ever in jail.
799
00:36:44,167 --> 00:36:46,000
I hope it's the last time.
800
00:36:46,868 --> 00:36:48,502
Don't have no room,
801
00:36:48,535 --> 00:36:53,801
wasn't much wider than from
here over to where you stand.
802
00:36:53,834 --> 00:36:55,534
You walk out in front
of your cell,
803
00:36:55,567 --> 00:36:57,701
your cell was only
just a little one.
804
00:36:57,734 --> 00:36:59,335
Concrete floor,
- [cats mewing]
805
00:36:59,368 --> 00:37:01,801
and then the little room
you had to walk in,
806
00:37:01,834 --> 00:37:03,700
had floor tile on it.
807
00:37:04,767 --> 00:37:07,467
Only, only place you had
to sit was just like this,
808
00:37:07,501 --> 00:37:09,567
back right up,
sit right on the concrete,
809
00:37:09,601 --> 00:37:11,334
and then lean right up
against the blocks.
810
00:37:12,668 --> 00:37:14,467
[Interviewer]
Were you ever in a place
like that before?
811
00:37:14,501 --> 00:37:16,367
No. Never.
812
00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:19,400
[spitting]
813
00:37:19,434 --> 00:37:21,000
Didn't you sign a confession?
814
00:37:21,033 --> 00:37:22,501
Yep.
815
00:37:22,534 --> 00:37:23,467
How come?
816
00:37:23,501 --> 00:37:24,534
'Cause I didn't know
what I was doing.
817
00:37:24,567 --> 00:37:27,100
I was nervous,
and all shook up.
818
00:37:27,968 --> 00:37:29,667
What did they have you sign?
819
00:37:29,701 --> 00:37:33,400
Two or three papers, then had
to put your initials on 'em.
820
00:37:33,434 --> 00:37:34,534
Did you read the papers?
821
00:37:34,567 --> 00:37:36,400
I couldn't see them 'cause
I didn't have my glasses.
822
00:37:36,434 --> 00:37:37,501
Can you read?
823
00:37:37,534 --> 00:37:39,267
A little bit, not much.
824
00:37:40,767 --> 00:37:41,901
It wouldn't have
done me no good
825
00:37:41,934 --> 00:37:43,001
if I did have the glasses
826
00:37:43,034 --> 00:37:46,001
'cause they,
they wasn't no good anyway.
827
00:37:46,034 --> 00:37:48,667
What'd they tell you
to get you to sign it?
828
00:37:48,701 --> 00:37:50,733
I don't know what they
did tell me now.
829
00:37:56,334 --> 00:37:57,567
Did they read it to you?
830
00:37:57,601 --> 00:37:59,167
Yes, they read it.
831
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,368
Did you understand it?
832
00:38:00,401 --> 00:38:02,367
Some of it, I did,
and some of it, I didn't.
833
00:38:05,435 --> 00:38:07,734
Did they tell you you could
go home if you signed it?
834
00:38:07,767 --> 00:38:09,900
No, they didn't tell me
I could go home.
835
00:38:09,933 --> 00:38:11,667
What'd they say?
836
00:38:11,701 --> 00:38:13,700
Well, they said
it'd be easier on you.
837
00:38:16,001 --> 00:38:17,133
It would be easier, if what?
838
00:38:17,167 --> 00:38:18,234
On me.
839
00:38:19,734 --> 00:38:21,200
But it wasn't.
840
00:38:23,167 --> 00:38:24,733
I don't think.
841
00:38:25,334 --> 00:38:27,300
♪♪
842
00:38:27,968 --> 00:38:29,666
[dogs barking in distance]
843
00:38:36,535 --> 00:38:38,235
[Cognetti]
When we were
in the Grand Jury,
844
00:38:38,268 --> 00:38:40,667
a photograph was,
uh, given to Delbert,
845
00:38:40,701 --> 00:38:42,168
and he was asked
to identify it.
846
00:38:42,201 --> 00:38:44,300
It was a photograph of his,
of his brother
847
00:38:44,334 --> 00:38:45,901
lying prone on the bed.
848
00:38:45,934 --> 00:38:48,968
What was interesting
was that there was a pillow
849
00:38:49,001 --> 00:38:51,335
that appeared to be
over the face.
850
00:38:51,368 --> 00:38:55,167
Um, I don't know how or why
the photograph was offered.
851
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,068
I would hope...
852
00:38:57,101 --> 00:38:59,068
for Mr. Cerio's sake,
that it wasn't offered
853
00:38:59,101 --> 00:39:02,534
to represent the body
as it was when it was found
854
00:39:02,567 --> 00:39:05,068
because, if it was,
that's not a true photograph.
855
00:39:05,101 --> 00:39:08,567
The... In fact, the body, when
it was found that morning
856
00:39:08,601 --> 00:39:12,067
by the first, uh,
first person in the bedroom,
857
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:13,734
had no pillow near it.
858
00:39:13,767 --> 00:39:17,901
As far as any fabrication of
evidence, uh, regarding, uh,
859
00:39:17,934 --> 00:39:21,801
uh, putting a pillow over
William Ward's case,
860
00:39:21,834 --> 00:39:26,034
regarding taking photographs
of the scene, um...
861
00:39:26,068 --> 00:39:29,235
I would like to use the term
"outrageous," regarding that,
862
00:39:29,268 --> 00:39:32,034
because the State Police
is not in the business
863
00:39:32,068 --> 00:39:35,567
of, of fabricating any type
of physical evidence.
864
00:39:35,601 --> 00:39:37,901
Uh, we go on the merits
of the case,
865
00:39:37,934 --> 00:39:39,701
and if the merits
of the case,
866
00:39:39,734 --> 00:39:41,834
uh, substantiate and suggest
867
00:39:41,868 --> 00:39:44,400
that there is criminal
culpability, then we proceed.
868
00:39:44,434 --> 00:39:46,601
If it doesn't,
we conclude our case,
869
00:39:46,634 --> 00:39:48,933
and we close it
by investigation.
870
00:39:50,334 --> 00:39:51,568
[Interviewer]
So, Lyman...
871
00:39:51,602 --> 00:39:54,001
what were you telling me
about the women in town here?
872
00:39:54,034 --> 00:39:55,467
Oh, there's nice women
in town.
873
00:39:55,501 --> 00:39:56,601
Yeah?
874
00:39:56,634 --> 00:39:58,868
There are.
I know every one
of them in there.
875
00:39:58,901 --> 00:39:59,901
What do you think?
876
00:39:59,934 --> 00:40:01,000
Oh, there're nice women.
877
00:40:01,033 --> 00:40:01,900
Yeah?
878
00:40:01,933 --> 00:40:03,567
Yeah.
879
00:40:03,601 --> 00:40:05,767
They're-They're pretty good,
pretty good friends.
880
00:40:05,801 --> 00:40:07,200
- Yeah?
- Yep.
881
00:40:07,234 --> 00:40:08,868
Them women I know
are gone now.
882
00:40:08,901 --> 00:40:10,834
Used to know.
- They ain't there anymore.
883
00:40:10,868 --> 00:40:12,300
Them young ones.
884
00:40:12,334 --> 00:40:14,334
You get married, you're gone!
885
00:40:14,367 --> 00:40:16,235
[Roscoe]
You get married, you're gone.
886
00:40:16,268 --> 00:40:19,234
Did you guys used to,
you know, have, like,
girlfriends and...?
887
00:40:19,267 --> 00:40:20,901
Nah, I didn't have any.
- Nah.
888
00:40:20,934 --> 00:40:22,634
[Roscoe]
Lyman never wanted
a girlfriend.
889
00:40:22,667 --> 00:40:24,133
Not like you,
I wouldn't have them around.
890
00:40:24,167 --> 00:40:25,335
[Roscoe] Me neither.
- Why?
891
00:40:25,368 --> 00:40:27,168
Oh, I just don't know, just
don't want them, that's all.
892
00:40:27,201 --> 00:40:29,033
Got to put that
on her finger.
893
00:40:29,067 --> 00:40:30,267
Yeah.
894
00:40:32,567 --> 00:40:34,067
Ever thought of
getting married?
895
00:40:34,100 --> 00:40:36,068
- No.
- Come on.
896
00:40:36,101 --> 00:40:37,901
No, sir, that's out of
my territory.
897
00:40:37,934 --> 00:40:41,501
I never, never thought of it,
and I wouldn't, I wouldn't.
898
00:40:41,534 --> 00:40:44,701
All the nice women you bring,
I wouldn't.
899
00:40:44,734 --> 00:40:46,400
Not me. No, sir.
900
00:40:48,201 --> 00:40:51,467
[Roscoe]
My brother, Bill, he didn't
want no women either.
901
00:40:51,501 --> 00:40:54,033
Ike up there,
my cousin in the bus,
902
00:40:54,067 --> 00:40:55,700
he don't want no women.
903
00:40:58,134 --> 00:41:00,533
He said he'd rather
live alone.
904
00:41:01,901 --> 00:41:08,501
Watch his, uh, his CB nights,
and watch his television.
905
00:41:08,534 --> 00:41:10,300
♪♪
906
00:41:23,335 --> 00:41:25,667
[Investigator Graham]
Lyman eventually
told us that, uh,
907
00:41:25,701 --> 00:41:28,334
they had talked about
killing William
908
00:41:28,367 --> 00:41:30,001
a couple days prior
to his death.
909
00:41:30,034 --> 00:41:31,300
That conversation took place
910
00:41:31,334 --> 00:41:33,734
out in front of
their residence.
911
00:41:33,767 --> 00:41:36,067
In fact, Lyman said
it was under a big tree
912
00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:37,502
in front of their house,
913
00:41:37,535 --> 00:41:42,667
where, um, Delbert came up to
Lyman and says, um,
914
00:41:42,701 --> 00:41:45,134
"You know, Brother William
is-is in a lot of pain
915
00:41:45,168 --> 00:41:47,133
with his stomach and h-his
head problems.
916
00:41:47,167 --> 00:41:48,868
He has continuous headaches,
917
00:41:48,901 --> 00:41:51,701
and I think it's about time
that we did something, uh,
918
00:41:51,734 --> 00:41:53,301
to help him,"
919
00:41:53,335 --> 00:41:55,168
and then Lyman
asked Delbert, he says,
920
00:41:55,201 --> 00:41:56,601
"What do you mean by,
you know,
921
00:41:56,634 --> 00:41:57,834
'It's about time we
did something.'"
922
00:41:57,868 --> 00:42:00,234
He says, "I think we, uh,
you know, should kill him
923
00:42:00,267 --> 00:42:02,300
so he's not
suffering anymore,"
924
00:42:02,334 --> 00:42:04,734
and initially,
they talked in regards
925
00:42:04,767 --> 00:42:06,367
to how they were
going to kill him,
926
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,667
or how Delbert
was going to kill him,
927
00:42:08,701 --> 00:42:11,200
and Delbert decided
he was gonna use a rifle
928
00:42:11,234 --> 00:42:12,334
and shoot him in the head.
929
00:42:13,435 --> 00:42:16,300
Um, Lyman had explained
to him that was too messy,
930
00:42:16,334 --> 00:42:18,968
and he didn't wanna
do it that way,
931
00:42:19,001 --> 00:42:20,401
or have it done that way,
932
00:42:20,435 --> 00:42:23,200
and it was decided that
Delbert would choke him,
933
00:42:23,234 --> 00:42:25,133
um...
934
00:42:25,167 --> 00:42:26,634
and kill him.
935
00:42:26,667 --> 00:42:27,967
♪♪
936
00:42:39,534 --> 00:42:41,201
One of the problems
that I've...
937
00:42:41,235 --> 00:42:42,368
as I am sure
you are well aware,
938
00:42:42,401 --> 00:42:43,868
one of the problems
that I've had with the,
939
00:42:43,901 --> 00:42:48,600
the incredible press coverage
is that it is...
940
00:42:50,101 --> 00:42:52,234
presenting to Delbert
a whole 'nother world
941
00:42:52,267 --> 00:42:53,868
that he's not used to,
942
00:42:53,901 --> 00:42:56,235
and by presenting that
to him,
943
00:42:56,268 --> 00:42:59,133
it's, it's changing him
in, in some form,
944
00:42:59,167 --> 00:43:01,600
um, and it is to my benefit,
945
00:43:02,767 --> 00:43:05,334
I should say,
it's to his benefit,
that he appear,
946
00:43:05,367 --> 00:43:08,667
uh, to the jury as he was
on the date
947
00:43:08,701 --> 00:43:11,634
that this incident
allegedly took place.
948
00:43:11,667 --> 00:43:14,801
Um, I would hate...
[stammers]
949
00:43:14,834 --> 00:43:18,001
it comes to mind,
the example of him
testifying,
950
00:43:18,034 --> 00:43:19,968
you know,
in a sharkskin suit,
951
00:43:20,001 --> 00:43:21,801
with his hair slicked back
952
00:43:21,834 --> 00:43:24,001
and, and sunglasses on.
953
00:43:24,034 --> 00:43:25,034
Now, that would never happen,
954
00:43:25,068 --> 00:43:26,133
but that's
what I'm getting at.
955
00:43:26,167 --> 00:43:28,001
I don't want him to change.
956
00:43:28,034 --> 00:43:30,968
He's still is obviously
a shy, gentle person,
957
00:43:31,001 --> 00:43:33,300
but he's becoming
somewhat, uh,
958
00:43:33,334 --> 00:43:35,334
schooled in the ways
of the world.
959
00:43:35,367 --> 00:43:36,733
♪♪
960
00:43:41,267 --> 00:43:43,367
[inaudible dialogue]
961
00:43:44,734 --> 00:43:47,534
[chickens clucking]
962
00:43:47,567 --> 00:43:49,833
[muffled auctioneer]
963
00:43:52,101 --> 00:43:54,301
Dollar and a quarter.
[mumbling]
964
00:43:54,335 --> 00:43:56,968
One and a half. Dollar 75.
Two dollar, and a quarter.
965
00:43:57,001 --> 00:44:00,666
[auctioneer continues]
966
00:44:04,634 --> 00:44:07,501
It seems odd to see Delbert
here without Bill.
967
00:44:07,534 --> 00:44:10,567
I've known them, them guys,
what, 35, 40 years,
968
00:44:10,601 --> 00:44:12,234
never, never seen 'em apart.
969
00:44:12,267 --> 00:44:13,400
Never seen 'em apart.
970
00:44:13,434 --> 00:44:14,601
Delbert's changing, I think.
971
00:44:14,634 --> 00:44:15,667
- Delbert is changing.
- Yeah.
972
00:44:15,701 --> 00:44:16,934
Delbert is changing.
973
00:44:16,968 --> 00:44:18,300
Yeah, Delbert is changing.
974
00:44:18,334 --> 00:44:21,133
♪♪
975
00:44:21,167 --> 00:44:23,168
[chicken squawking]
976
00:44:23,201 --> 00:44:25,766
[auctioneer continues,
indistinct]
977
00:44:31,435 --> 00:44:34,334
[Art Bishopp]
Delbert, well, he hasn't
changed in 40 years.
978
00:44:34,367 --> 00:44:35,567
I do know that.
979
00:44:35,601 --> 00:44:36,734
No, he hasn't changed.
980
00:44:36,767 --> 00:44:39,068
See, the nice part
about Delbert,
981
00:44:39,101 --> 00:44:40,567
he tells you something,
you can believe it.
982
00:44:40,601 --> 00:44:41,667
This guy says,
"Good morning,"
983
00:44:41,701 --> 00:44:43,234
you gotta look out
and see if it's night.
984
00:44:43,267 --> 00:44:44,301
You know, I used to come up,
985
00:44:44,335 --> 00:44:47,068
I used to see Delbert
when he was down here.
986
00:44:47,101 --> 00:44:49,467
Delbert was here,
wasn't you, Delbert?
987
00:44:49,501 --> 00:44:50,601
Mm-hmm.
988
00:44:50,634 --> 00:44:54,201
I was, uh, I was 15 years old
when Delbert was born.
989
00:44:54,235 --> 00:44:55,734
Oh, Delbert's a good boy.
- It's kinda scary.
990
00:44:55,767 --> 00:44:56,867
Always has been.
991
00:44:57,868 --> 00:44:59,801
When it, when it boils down
to everything,
992
00:44:59,834 --> 00:45:01,968
I think it come out of
the kindness of his heart.
993
00:45:02,001 --> 00:45:04,067
That's what I, that's what I
believed from the beginning,
994
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:05,334
and I believe it today.
995
00:45:05,367 --> 00:45:08,400
♪♪
996
00:45:08,434 --> 00:45:10,700
[auction continues,
indistinct]
997
00:45:16,701 --> 00:45:18,168
[chicken squawking]
998
00:45:18,201 --> 00:45:20,400
Well, I-I-I do believe
h-he probably,
999
00:45:20,434 --> 00:45:24,000
he probably did do it
out of, you know...
1000
00:45:24,033 --> 00:45:25,235
but it's, it's, uh...
1001
00:45:25,268 --> 00:45:26,667
At first, I didn't,
I didn't believe it,
1002
00:45:26,701 --> 00:45:28,834
and then we started
putting everything together,
1003
00:45:28,868 --> 00:45:31,734
with, you know, with Bill's
troubles and all and, uh,
1004
00:45:31,767 --> 00:45:33,301
and if he,
if he was suffering,
1005
00:45:33,335 --> 00:45:36,001
it wouldn't be beyond him,
probably, to...
1006
00:45:36,034 --> 00:45:37,335
like, put him
out of his misery,
1007
00:45:37,368 --> 00:45:40,068
like you would a sick cat
or something like that.
1008
00:45:40,101 --> 00:45:42,734
But, uh, it was, it was hard
to talk about it while we,
1009
00:45:42,767 --> 00:45:44,001
you know, with Delbert around
1010
00:45:44,034 --> 00:45:46,367
'cause I know he
probably feels bad.
1011
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,000
But they've been damn,
damn good boys.
1012
00:45:57,534 --> 00:46:00,201
Our objective
in any interrogation
1013
00:46:00,235 --> 00:46:04,001
is to solicit
incriminating responses,
1014
00:46:04,034 --> 00:46:06,968
and, uh, I mean, we're in the
business of...
1015
00:46:07,001 --> 00:46:10,400
of, of doing police work and
doing effective police work,
1016
00:46:10,434 --> 00:46:14,534
and we use the, the methods
and techniques
1017
00:46:14,567 --> 00:46:16,667
that are, are
most productive to us,
1018
00:46:16,701 --> 00:46:19,001
and it's my opinion that
Question and Answer
1019
00:46:19,034 --> 00:46:21,400
is the most productive
in an interrogation.
1020
00:46:23,268 --> 00:46:25,834
[Thurston]
Were you befuddled in any way
1021
00:46:25,868 --> 00:46:30,033
on the sixth of June
by this whole procedure?
1022
00:46:30,067 --> 00:46:31,667
Um, no, I guess not.
1023
00:46:31,701 --> 00:46:33,100
Do you know what
befuddled means?
1024
00:46:33,133 --> 00:46:33,833
No, I don't.
1025
00:46:35,201 --> 00:46:38,701
We discussed, briefly,
if he knew what
any of his rights were,
1026
00:46:38,734 --> 00:46:43,001
and he remarked, right off,
that he, uh, he watched TV,
1027
00:46:43,034 --> 00:46:45,300
especially, uh, "Hunter,"
1028
00:46:45,334 --> 00:46:47,368
which is a detective show,
1029
00:46:47,401 --> 00:46:50,734
and he did know
some of his rights, verbatim,
1030
00:46:50,767 --> 00:46:52,634
uh, already.
1031
00:46:54,167 --> 00:46:56,301
[Thurston]
Did they suggest to you,
in any way, that,
1032
00:46:56,334 --> 00:46:57,967
how you might have
killed Bill?
1033
00:46:58,001 --> 00:46:59,734
Yes, they did.
They showed me how I done it.
1034
00:46:59,767 --> 00:47:00,800
Could you show me?
1035
00:47:00,834 --> 00:47:02,468
Yes, I could show you.
1036
00:47:02,501 --> 00:47:04,367
Well, go ahead, show me.
1037
00:47:06,835 --> 00:47:08,234
[muffled] That's tight as you
can squeeze?
1038
00:47:08,267 --> 00:47:10,533
Can't kill me. [mumbling]
1039
00:47:12,434 --> 00:47:13,567
[muffled laughing]
1040
00:47:14,768 --> 00:47:17,800
What he told us, that night,
is what I'm relating to you,
1041
00:47:17,834 --> 00:47:19,568
and that's what he told us.
1042
00:47:19,601 --> 00:47:22,300
After the fact,
a lot of words
were put in his mouth,
1043
00:47:22,333 --> 00:47:23,735
but...
1044
00:47:23,768 --> 00:47:26,301
there was no, no...
Investigator Rifenberg
1045
00:47:26,334 --> 00:47:27,468
didn't demonstrate on me,
1046
00:47:27,501 --> 00:47:28,800
or I didn't
demonstrate on him.
1047
00:47:28,834 --> 00:47:30,201
His exact way of doing it
1048
00:47:30,234 --> 00:47:32,734
was he put his hand
over his own mouth
1049
00:47:32,767 --> 00:47:34,433
to indicate how he did it.
1050
00:47:36,201 --> 00:47:39,400
[cows mooing]
1051
00:47:44,001 --> 00:47:45,534
[District Attorney]
So, at that point,
1052
00:47:45,568 --> 00:47:47,468
they want to take a written
statement, right?
1053
00:47:47,501 --> 00:47:48,801
A typed statement?
- [Delbert] Yes.
1054
00:47:48,835 --> 00:47:50,967
They want to put that
down in writing,
1055
00:47:51,001 --> 00:47:52,001
and they told you that.
1056
00:47:52,034 --> 00:47:53,201
Yes, they told me that.
1057
00:47:53,234 --> 00:47:54,835
And you said yes.
- Yes.
1058
00:47:54,868 --> 00:47:57,234
And you remember them telling
you that it was a crime
1059
00:47:57,267 --> 00:47:59,201
in the State of New York...
- Yes.
1060
00:47:59,234 --> 00:48:00,501
...to give a
false statement...
1061
00:48:00,534 --> 00:48:02,867
Yes.
- ...and you understood that?
1062
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:04,201
No, I didn't understood it.
1063
00:48:04,234 --> 00:48:06,034
You didn't understand
that it's a crime to lie?
1064
00:48:06,067 --> 00:48:09,634
No, 'cause I knew
I didn't kill him.
1065
00:48:09,668 --> 00:48:13,334
And then they said to you,
"Delbert, if this is the
truth, sign this statement."
1066
00:48:13,368 --> 00:48:14,368
Remember him
telling you that?
1067
00:48:14,401 --> 00:48:16,034
Yes, I remember him telling
me that.
1068
00:48:16,067 --> 00:48:17,467
And you signed the statement?
1069
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:19,167
Yes, I signed it.
1070
00:48:19,201 --> 00:48:20,134
Now, you weren't handcuffed?
1071
00:48:20,167 --> 00:48:21,368
No.
1072
00:48:21,401 --> 00:48:23,333
They didn't have their guns
out pointing them at you?
1073
00:48:23,367 --> 00:48:24,835
No.
1074
00:48:24,868 --> 00:48:27,001
You say they read this to you
about four or five times?
1075
00:48:27,034 --> 00:48:29,368
About that.
- About that.
1076
00:48:29,401 --> 00:48:30,900
And each time, you told them
that was the truth
1077
00:48:30,934 --> 00:48:32,468
and those were your answers?
1078
00:48:32,501 --> 00:48:34,568
Yes, I thought
that if I cooperated,
1079
00:48:34,601 --> 00:48:36,533
I would get out of there,
but I didn't.
1080
00:48:38,167 --> 00:48:40,333
[birds cawing]
1081
00:48:47,368 --> 00:48:51,401
They've jumped from,
uh, sex to, with incest,
1082
00:48:51,434 --> 00:48:53,401
or whatever you'd call it,
1083
00:48:53,434 --> 00:48:56,034
between the boys, to mercy
killing to,
1084
00:48:56,067 --> 00:48:57,734
what the hell, who knows.
1085
00:48:58,701 --> 00:49:00,700
They still haven't come up
with any motive
1086
00:49:00,734 --> 00:49:02,400
for why he would kill him.
1087
00:49:03,434 --> 00:49:06,234
Bill was the whole push
behind this family.
1088
00:49:06,267 --> 00:49:07,166
He was the boss.
1089
00:49:08,334 --> 00:49:10,735
He walked in front,
and Delbert walked
back of him,
1090
00:49:10,768 --> 00:49:13,301
and when Bill stopped,
Delbert would run into him.
1091
00:49:13,334 --> 00:49:16,401
That's the way they lead,
and that's the way
they followed.
1092
00:49:16,434 --> 00:49:18,468
They were two men that walked
the same pair of shoes,
1093
00:49:18,501 --> 00:49:23,401
so Delbert wouldn't, no way,
done anything to Bill.
1094
00:49:23,434 --> 00:49:26,034
According to my information,
1095
00:49:26,067 --> 00:49:28,201
and it must be...
1096
00:49:28,234 --> 00:49:29,800
on the record now,
1097
00:49:29,834 --> 00:49:31,368
they held Bill's body
two days
1098
00:49:31,401 --> 00:49:36,066
over at the funeral parlor
to do a rape test on him.
1099
00:49:38,533 --> 00:49:40,834
It come out inconclusive
1100
00:49:40,867 --> 00:49:43,201
or whatever the hell
they put it.
1101
00:49:43,234 --> 00:49:44,801
So, that was nothing.
1102
00:49:44,835 --> 00:49:47,501
[Interviewer]
What were they looking for?
1103
00:49:47,534 --> 00:49:49,834
Looking for sperm
in Bill's body.
1104
00:49:51,334 --> 00:49:54,234
That was because they
always slept together,
1105
00:49:54,267 --> 00:49:55,634
but if they'd found it
or not,
1106
00:49:55,668 --> 00:49:56,968
what the hell difference
does that make?
1107
00:49:57,002 --> 00:49:59,368
We got a lot of goddamn guys
down in New York City,
1108
00:49:59,401 --> 00:50:00,900
where you boys are from,
that sleep together.
1109
00:50:00,934 --> 00:50:02,268
[laughing]
1110
00:50:02,302 --> 00:50:06,067
And they ain't doin' it
just because it's
a way of life, either.
1111
00:50:06,101 --> 00:50:08,034
I mean, that would have
no bearing on the case,
1112
00:50:08,067 --> 00:50:09,700
whatsoever, in my mind.
1113
00:50:10,568 --> 00:50:12,534
We have lesbians and gay
people all over,
1114
00:50:12,568 --> 00:50:15,734
so why the hell
they was bothering
with Bill and Delbert?
1115
00:50:15,767 --> 00:50:17,134
I don't understand that part,
1116
00:50:17,167 --> 00:50:18,668
but they were just
fishing for something
1117
00:50:18,701 --> 00:50:20,767
to justify
what they were doin'.
1118
00:50:22,434 --> 00:50:24,533
That would be my
understanding of it.
1119
00:50:25,767 --> 00:50:27,033
Like a witch hunt.
1120
00:50:28,067 --> 00:50:29,167
Like the mercy killing.
1121
00:50:29,201 --> 00:50:33,034
He hasn't been sick, uh,
any more than normal.
1122
00:50:33,067 --> 00:50:35,167
For Bill, Bill was always
hobbling or lame
1123
00:50:35,201 --> 00:50:38,900
or a thumb-bunged
or his arm hurt or something,
1124
00:50:38,934 --> 00:50:40,234
and every time I had
ever seen him,
1125
00:50:40,267 --> 00:50:43,367
he's always had something
bunged up on him, so...
1126
00:50:44,967 --> 00:50:47,134
He wasn't sick...
1127
00:50:47,167 --> 00:50:49,001
so that would rule out
the mercy killing,
1128
00:50:49,034 --> 00:50:51,667
so what the hell else
could they come up with?
1129
00:50:51,700 --> 00:50:53,967
I think, probably, that...
1130
00:50:54,001 --> 00:50:56,234
you get a few
narrow-minded people,
1131
00:50:56,267 --> 00:50:58,201
it wouldn't matter
who slept together,
1132
00:50:58,234 --> 00:51:00,301
they'd have to
think the worst of 'em.
1133
00:51:00,334 --> 00:51:02,501
That's they way
our society works.
1134
00:51:02,534 --> 00:51:05,034
We're not back a hundred
years ago,
1135
00:51:05,067 --> 00:51:07,468
whatever you did
was all right.
1136
00:51:07,501 --> 00:51:09,002
Before we got heat
in the houses,
1137
00:51:09,035 --> 00:51:11,301
which the boys don't have no
central heating or anything,
1138
00:51:11,334 --> 00:51:12,867
they slept together,
probably, more or less,
1139
00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:14,334
for warmth,
1140
00:51:14,368 --> 00:51:16,201
so they wouldn't
freeze to death.
1141
00:51:16,234 --> 00:51:18,501
We used to have a wood stove,
and it heated one room.
1142
00:51:18,534 --> 00:51:21,534
You'd burn your belly
and freeze your ass.
1143
00:51:21,568 --> 00:51:24,234
When you get up to bed,
there was no heat
in all our bedrooms.
1144
00:51:24,267 --> 00:51:26,834
Oh, I think these boys
are the same way.
1145
00:51:28,001 --> 00:51:29,800
They just slept together
when they was kids,
1146
00:51:29,834 --> 00:51:31,835
and why the hell change it?
1147
00:51:31,868 --> 00:51:34,400
Was a comfortable arrangement
all the way around.
1148
00:51:35,667 --> 00:51:36,767
Just a habit.
1149
00:51:37,901 --> 00:51:40,401
These not are the most
educated people in the world.
1150
00:51:40,434 --> 00:51:41,701
It probably
never dawned on them
1151
00:51:41,735 --> 00:51:43,001
that anybody
would ever question
1152
00:51:43,034 --> 00:51:44,767
why they slept
in the same bed.
1153
00:51:47,168 --> 00:51:51,334
And before Bill died,
I don't think anybody
ever paid any attention.
1154
00:51:51,368 --> 00:51:53,100
You wouldn't think nothing
about it.
1155
00:51:54,901 --> 00:51:56,534
Hell, nobody ever went
in their house anyway.
1156
00:51:56,568 --> 00:51:58,967
Always talked
in the cow barn.
1157
00:51:59,001 --> 00:52:00,501
I've known them since,
for Christ's sakes,
1158
00:52:00,534 --> 00:52:01,835
for better than 50 years,
1159
00:52:01,868 --> 00:52:04,967
and I never been in their
house, only twice.
1160
00:52:05,001 --> 00:52:06,567
So, what the hell
did I care where they slept
1161
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:07,633
or anybody else?
1162
00:52:07,667 --> 00:52:09,233
It's nobody's damn business.
1163
00:52:10,401 --> 00:52:12,301
So, when the investigators
pulled that one,
1164
00:52:12,334 --> 00:52:14,700
I was kind of surprised, but...
1165
00:52:16,034 --> 00:52:17,701
I guess they'd pull
most anything
1166
00:52:17,735 --> 00:52:20,700
when you get your tail
caught in a crack in a log.
1167
00:52:20,734 --> 00:52:22,667
[chuckling]
1168
00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:24,835
[dogs barking]
1169
00:52:24,868 --> 00:52:26,800
[Interviewer]
When was this house built?
1170
00:52:26,834 --> 00:52:29,367
What, sixty... five.
1171
00:52:30,568 --> 00:52:32,667
Musta been, 'cause Ma lived
in it just about a year
1172
00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:34,134
before she passed away.
1173
00:52:34,167 --> 00:52:35,467
And she died in '65.
1174
00:52:36,434 --> 00:52:39,166
Or '64, then, it was about.
- '64, probably.
1175
00:52:40,567 --> 00:52:41,700
I'd say.
1176
00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:46,401
Was there a house here before?
1177
00:52:46,434 --> 00:52:48,234
There was an old house,
sat over on this other side.
1178
00:52:48,267 --> 00:52:49,700
Over on this other side.
1179
00:52:52,501 --> 00:52:55,234
What was,
what was your mom like?
1180
00:52:55,267 --> 00:52:58,001
She was a good person,
good lady, good mother.
1181
00:52:58,034 --> 00:53:00,600
Yeah.
- Do anything for you.
1182
00:53:06,567 --> 00:53:08,200
She died of cancers...
1183
00:53:09,900 --> 00:53:11,067
Didn't she Delbert?
- Ma.
1184
00:53:11,101 --> 00:53:12,567
Yup.
- Yeah, so did Dad.
1185
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:13,501
Yeah.
1186
00:53:13,534 --> 00:53:16,500
[stammering]
Sister Emma had 'em.
1187
00:53:17,734 --> 00:53:19,166
Moses' mother.
1188
00:53:20,134 --> 00:53:22,301
I think Bill died
with a cancer, too.
1189
00:53:22,334 --> 00:53:24,066
I do. He did.
1190
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,066
♪♪
1191
00:53:33,234 --> 00:53:35,166
This battery's
not too lively.
1192
00:53:42,067 --> 00:53:44,867
[indistinct mumbling]
1193
00:53:52,867 --> 00:53:54,234
It's the battery.
1194
00:53:54,267 --> 00:53:55,735
[engine sputtering]
1195
00:53:55,768 --> 00:53:57,767
Don't think either one of
'em's any good.
1196
00:54:00,533 --> 00:54:02,567
[cows mooing]
1197
00:54:18,834 --> 00:54:22,201
[engine sputtering]
1198
00:54:22,234 --> 00:54:24,700
Goddamn fuckin' thing.
1199
00:54:35,368 --> 00:54:37,266
[cows mooing]
1200
00:54:42,334 --> 00:54:44,834
I don't think she's gonna
start, Lyman.
1201
00:54:44,867 --> 00:54:48,200
[engine sputtering]
1202
00:54:52,501 --> 00:54:54,067
[indistinct mumbling]
1203
00:54:54,101 --> 00:54:55,233
That's the end of it.
1204
00:54:55,266 --> 00:54:56,367
Yep.
1205
00:54:57,734 --> 00:54:58,800
♪♪
1206
00:55:01,867 --> 00:55:03,934
[wind rustling]
1207
00:55:20,201 --> 00:55:23,033
[dog barking]
1208
00:55:29,368 --> 00:55:31,400
[dog whimpering]
1209
00:55:33,368 --> 00:55:37,234
[music on tv]
1210
00:55:37,267 --> 00:55:38,834
Our first story
is about some people
1211
00:55:38,867 --> 00:55:40,801
you just don't see
on television.
1212
00:55:40,835 --> 00:55:42,500
I mean, they're almost
from a different era.
1213
00:55:42,533 --> 00:55:44,501
Sort of unbelievable.
1214
00:55:44,534 --> 00:55:46,501
You just have to
see this story.
1215
00:55:46,534 --> 00:55:48,368
It's about the Ward brothers,
1216
00:55:48,401 --> 00:55:50,368
Delbert, Roscoe,
Lyman, and Bill.
1217
00:55:50,401 --> 00:55:52,967
All bachelors, who live
together in a cramped shack,
1218
00:55:53,001 --> 00:55:54,801
where they were born
in Munnsville.
1219
00:55:54,835 --> 00:55:57,634
It's a small dairy town
in central New York state.
1220
00:55:57,668 --> 00:55:59,834
The Ward Boys,
as they've always been known,
1221
00:55:59,867 --> 00:56:02,334
lived the way farmers did
200 years ago.
1222
00:56:02,368 --> 00:56:03,968
They never learned
to read or write.
1223
00:56:04,002 --> 00:56:07,067
They have no running water,
no modern farming equipment.
1224
00:56:07,101 --> 00:56:09,633
Nobody in town ever
paid much attention to them,
1225
00:56:09,667 --> 00:56:11,468
until one day last summer,
1226
00:56:11,501 --> 00:56:15,634
when Delbert was charged
with murdering his older
brother, Bill.
1227
00:56:15,668 --> 00:56:16,967
Suddenly,
the people of Munnsville
1228
00:56:17,001 --> 00:56:18,368
rallied around Delbert.
1229
00:56:18,401 --> 00:56:20,501
It's hard
to put into words just...
1230
00:56:20,534 --> 00:56:22,368
how simple they really are.
1231
00:56:22,401 --> 00:56:25,167
They never really grown up.
1232
00:56:25,201 --> 00:56:29,001
They're just
plain, simple boys.
1233
00:56:29,034 --> 00:56:30,633
Little boys,
1234
00:56:30,667 --> 00:56:32,534
with old man's faces.
1235
00:56:32,568 --> 00:56:35,634
He wouldn't even shoot a cat
if he was half dead.
1236
00:56:35,668 --> 00:56:39,067
Talking about killing Bill...
no way.
1237
00:56:39,101 --> 00:56:39,967
No, he didn't.
1238
00:56:41,401 --> 00:56:43,568
[Connie Chung on TV]
What did the police ask you
that night?
1239
00:56:43,601 --> 00:56:45,368
[Delbert on TV]
Well, they asked me
if I killed him,
1240
00:56:45,401 --> 00:56:46,500
and I tried to tell them,
"No,"
1241
00:56:46,533 --> 00:56:48,568
- They wouldn't.
1242
00:56:48,601 --> 00:56:50,568
- They said,
"You did, you did."
1243
00:56:50,601 --> 00:56:52,534
[Chung] You told him
you didn't kill him.
1244
00:56:52,568 --> 00:56:54,167
[Delbert] Well, I tried to,
but they wouldn't believe me.
1245
00:56:54,201 --> 00:56:56,667
[Asst. DA on TV]
I just slid my hand
around his head,
1246
00:56:56,700 --> 00:56:58,801
came up, covered his mouth,
1247
00:56:58,835 --> 00:57:02,167
and held my hand there for a
period of about five minutes.
1248
00:57:02,201 --> 00:57:04,368
You're a goddamn liar.
- Yeah.
1249
00:57:04,401 --> 00:57:05,534
[overlapping talking]
1250
00:57:05,568 --> 00:57:07,900
'Cause you told, you told me
that's how I done it.
1251
00:57:07,934 --> 00:57:09,568
Goddamn liar.
1252
00:57:09,601 --> 00:57:11,201
You told me
that's how I done it,
1253
00:57:11,234 --> 00:57:12,468
showed me how I done it.
1254
00:57:12,501 --> 00:57:15,002
[Asst. DA on TV]
He showed how he was laying
in the bed...
1255
00:57:15,035 --> 00:57:18,167
That son of a bitch wasn't
supposed to have been there
until 7:30,
1256
00:57:18,201 --> 00:57:21,134
they brought him in just to
read the confession over,
1257
00:57:21,167 --> 00:57:22,001
didn't he?
1258
00:57:22,034 --> 00:57:23,800
Yes, he's a son of a bitch
and a liar.
1259
00:57:23,834 --> 00:57:25,001
Yeah, he's lying like hell.
1260
00:57:25,034 --> 00:57:26,134
He wasn't supposed to been
down there
1261
00:57:26,167 --> 00:57:28,668
according to
the Huntley Hearing 'til 7:30
1262
00:57:28,701 --> 00:57:31,100
just to read that confession
over to you.
1263
00:57:32,434 --> 00:57:34,467
Are you crying Delbert?
- No.
1264
00:57:34,500 --> 00:57:35,701
Sometimes I do.
1265
00:57:35,735 --> 00:57:37,401
You don't have to pay
no attention to that.
1266
00:57:37,434 --> 00:57:39,534
Why were you crying Delbert?
1267
00:57:39,568 --> 00:57:41,868
Well, I think of Bill a lot
down there again.
1268
00:57:41,901 --> 00:57:45,701
Then Jane or Moses or Glenn
come in to see me
1269
00:57:45,735 --> 00:57:49,634
or some of my other friends,
and then I'd start crying.
1270
00:57:49,668 --> 00:57:54,001
[Connie Chung]
After 20 days, Delbert's bail
was finally set at $10,000,
1271
00:57:54,034 --> 00:57:55,735
and the people of Munnsville,
1272
00:57:55,768 --> 00:57:58,735
who had never before embraced
any of the Wards,
1273
00:57:58,768 --> 00:58:01,301
raised the money to free him
in a day.
1274
00:58:01,334 --> 00:58:03,035
We're all your friends.
- I know it.
1275
00:58:03,068 --> 00:58:05,368
We're always gonna be
your friends.
- I know that.
1276
00:58:05,401 --> 00:58:07,800
And we wish you a lot of
health and happiness.
1277
00:58:07,834 --> 00:58:10,167
Thank you, all.
- In your 60th year.
1278
00:58:10,201 --> 00:58:12,334
[man] And he hopes he gets
out of this.
1279
00:58:12,368 --> 00:58:14,468
We know he's gonna
get out of it.
1280
00:58:14,501 --> 00:58:16,834
[Asst. DA] And I think
Delbert knows what happened
1281
00:58:16,867 --> 00:58:17,968
that night on Johnson Road.
1282
00:58:18,002 --> 00:58:20,468
He has to live with it
the rest of his life.
1283
00:58:20,501 --> 00:58:22,267
[Thurston] He had no problem
with it, so far,
1284
00:58:22,301 --> 00:58:23,735
you son of a bitch.
1285
00:58:23,768 --> 00:58:25,800
If I ever get the chance
at that bastard,
1286
00:58:25,834 --> 00:58:28,735
and he's on my land,
he'd better pray.
1287
00:58:28,768 --> 00:58:31,034
'Cause I'm gettin' so goddamn
old and so goddamn sick
1288
00:58:31,067 --> 00:58:32,368
that I don't care
too much anymore.
1289
00:58:32,401 --> 00:58:34,634
It makes me a dangerous man.
1290
00:58:34,668 --> 00:58:37,034
[Connie Chung] Delbert Ward's
trial is expected to begin
1291
00:58:37,067 --> 00:58:38,368
in a few weeks.
1292
00:58:38,401 --> 00:58:40,135
Organizers in Munnsville
are planning
1293
00:58:40,168 --> 00:58:43,368
several benefit raffles
to cover the cost
of his defense.
1294
00:58:43,401 --> 00:58:44,734
We'll be back in a moment.
1295
00:58:44,767 --> 00:58:46,934
[music on tv ♪]
1296
00:58:49,101 --> 00:58:51,002
Well, Roscoe, you...
1297
00:58:51,035 --> 00:58:53,967
had your snoot stuck in that
television camera all summer.
1298
00:58:54,001 --> 00:58:55,967
How'd you like seeing
yourself on television?
1299
00:58:56,001 --> 00:58:57,234
All right.
1300
00:58:57,267 --> 00:58:59,835
Is that all, after all that?
- Yeah.
1301
00:58:59,868 --> 00:59:01,800
Christ, you hogged it
all summer,
didn't he Delbert?
1302
00:59:01,834 --> 00:59:02,935
Yeah!
1303
00:59:02,968 --> 00:59:05,134
Every time they got out a
camera, there was Roscoe,
1304
00:59:05,167 --> 00:59:07,501
smilin' and grinnin'.
- Yeah.
1305
00:59:07,534 --> 00:59:09,901
You did a good job, though,
Roscoe.
- Yeah.
1306
00:59:09,935 --> 00:59:11,967
I give you credit for that.
- He did do a good job.
1307
00:59:12,001 --> 00:59:14,868
Yup.
- They didn't shake you
a goddamn bit.
1308
00:59:14,901 --> 00:59:17,134
Well, I didn't sign no
goddamn papers with them,
1309
00:59:17,167 --> 00:59:19,066
did I, Harry?
- No.
1310
00:59:20,267 --> 00:59:22,368
Lyman wouldn't of signed
the goddamn paper
1311
00:59:22,401 --> 00:59:23,901
if they hadn't told him
he could come home.
1312
00:59:23,935 --> 00:59:26,034
He was so goddamn scared,
he was pretty near dead.
1313
00:59:26,067 --> 00:59:28,067
Look at the goddamn night
he was so bad.
1314
00:59:28,101 --> 00:59:29,601
Jesus Christ, I come up and...
1315
00:59:29,634 --> 00:59:31,701
I had to call you for him
that night.
1316
00:59:31,735 --> 00:59:34,101
Thought- thought Roscoe was
gonna die, we did,
1317
00:59:34,134 --> 00:59:36,134
Jesus Christ, so I told him
he had to get better
1318
00:59:36,167 --> 00:59:37,800
'cause Connie Chung
was comin' the next day,
1319
00:59:37,834 --> 00:59:39,234
and, God, he snapped right
out of it.
1320
00:59:39,267 --> 00:59:41,800
[laughing] He did.
Snapped right out of it.
1321
00:59:41,834 --> 00:59:44,567
And he hasn't been ill since.
- No.
1322
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,234
"All right," Roscoe said,
1323
00:59:47,267 --> 00:59:48,568
"I'll go to bed and get
rested up.
1324
00:59:48,601 --> 00:59:49,700
I'll be all right
in the morning."
1325
00:59:49,734 --> 00:59:51,100
Yeah.
[laughing]
1326
00:59:52,067 --> 00:59:53,868
Joe and Bruce, come on.
Come on up.
1327
00:59:53,901 --> 00:59:57,034
I wanna show you the old-old-
old gobblers.
1328
00:59:57,067 --> 00:59:58,433
♪♪
1329
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,867
[indistinct]
1330
01:00:03,735 --> 01:00:06,333
We named one Joe,
and one, Bruce.
1331
01:00:09,368 --> 01:00:11,600
H-Hear 'em, Joe?
[dog barking]
1332
01:00:12,567 --> 01:00:14,533
Gobble, gobble, gobble.
1333
01:00:15,467 --> 01:00:17,834
[laughing]
1334
01:00:20,201 --> 01:00:21,901
I ain't fed ya yet.
1335
01:00:21,935 --> 01:00:24,734
[turkeys gobbling]
That one wants some trouble.
1336
01:00:29,934 --> 01:00:31,600
Gobble, gobble, gobble.
1337
01:00:35,801 --> 01:00:39,033
Come on over, Joe and Bruce.
I wanna show 'em to ya.
1338
01:00:43,767 --> 01:00:46,034
If I can get in there.
1339
01:00:46,067 --> 01:00:48,433
[turkeys gobbling]
1340
01:00:49,701 --> 01:00:53,400
There- there's Joe,
the big one...
1341
01:00:55,735 --> 01:00:57,967
...and that one over there's
Bruce, the one h...
1342
01:00:58,001 --> 01:01:00,401
the one lookin' towards
the windshield.
1343
01:01:00,434 --> 01:01:01,867
[Interviewer] You named your
gobblers after us?
1344
01:01:01,900 --> 01:01:04,867
Yup, that's right.
[laughing]
1345
01:01:04,900 --> 01:01:06,167
How come?
1346
01:01:06,201 --> 01:01:09,501
Well... good name!
- Yeah.
1347
01:01:09,534 --> 01:01:12,468
Good friends.
That's why I done it.
1348
01:01:12,501 --> 01:01:14,401
That's nice.
Well, we're honored.
1349
01:01:14,434 --> 01:01:16,900
I know that.
- Yeah.
1350
01:01:16,934 --> 01:01:18,201
[dogs barking]
1351
01:01:18,234 --> 01:01:20,301
How come you like
collecting birds?
1352
01:01:20,334 --> 01:01:22,334
Oh, well, I always did.
- How come?
1353
01:01:22,368 --> 01:01:23,834
I don't know.
1354
01:01:23,867 --> 01:01:25,634
I used to keep wild doves,
1355
01:01:25,668 --> 01:01:27,334
but I never had no luck
with 'em.
1356
01:01:27,368 --> 01:01:29,367
Well, what is it about birds
that you like?
1357
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,035
Oh...
1358
01:01:31,068 --> 01:01:34,834
I like to see 'em around
and hear 'em- hear 'em-
hear 'em holler.
1359
01:01:34,867 --> 01:01:37,633
Always did.
[turkey gobbling]
1360
01:01:37,667 --> 01:01:40,134
Always like to hear them.
1361
01:01:40,167 --> 01:01:42,301
Gobble, gobble, gobble,
gobble, gobble!
1362
01:01:42,334 --> 01:01:43,668
See them going?
1363
01:01:43,701 --> 01:01:47,001
H-He knows there's something
going on.
1364
01:01:47,034 --> 01:01:49,433
Can't fool that old bird.
1365
01:01:51,368 --> 01:01:53,601
[Cognetti] I wanted you here
today for several reasons.
1366
01:01:53,634 --> 01:01:56,468
The first, is to let you know
what's been happening.
1367
01:01:56,501 --> 01:01:58,334
I really haven't had an
opportunity to speak with-
1368
01:01:58,368 --> 01:02:01,300
with, uh... Hey, Roscoe.
1369
01:02:01,333 --> 01:02:02,734
Roscoe!
1370
01:02:02,767 --> 01:02:04,201
[speaking Italian]
1371
01:02:04,234 --> 01:02:05,668
[laughing]
1372
01:02:05,701 --> 01:02:07,368
I haven't had an opportunity
to speak with a lot of you,
1373
01:02:07,401 --> 01:02:09,267
since maybe even
the bail hearing,
1374
01:02:09,301 --> 01:02:11,701
which was many, many,
many months ago.
1375
01:02:11,735 --> 01:02:13,900
I am very disappointed
at what I see
1376
01:02:13,934 --> 01:02:16,067
from the District Attorney's
office.
1377
01:02:16,101 --> 01:02:19,368
At the time that the body
was moved to the...
1378
01:02:19,401 --> 01:02:22,167
uh, funeral home,
1379
01:02:22,201 --> 01:02:25,067
the clothes were taken
and Doctor Germaniuk,
1380
01:02:25,101 --> 01:02:26,501
sometime thereafter,
1381
01:02:26,534 --> 01:02:28,900
discovered that there was
some sperm
1382
01:02:28,934 --> 01:02:32,401
on the pant leg of William,
1383
01:02:32,434 --> 01:02:34,900
and some sperm on William
himself,
1384
01:02:34,934 --> 01:02:36,868
on his body.
1385
01:02:36,901 --> 01:02:39,901
That, at that moment,
changed his whole theory
of the murder.
1386
01:02:39,935 --> 01:02:44,167
It no longer is, at least,
this is what we've been able
t-t-to fathom,
1387
01:02:44,201 --> 01:02:46,700
it no longer is
a mercy killing.
1388
01:02:46,734 --> 01:02:48,034
Believe it or not,
1389
01:02:48,067 --> 01:02:51,633
it's a sex-gone-bad murder.
1390
01:02:51,667 --> 01:02:53,501
I think the allegation,
1391
01:02:53,534 --> 01:02:54,801
perhaps along with
some other things,
1392
01:02:54,835 --> 01:02:57,667
is that Delbert and William
were having sex,
1393
01:02:57,700 --> 01:02:59,501
uh, that a fight occurred,
1394
01:02:59,534 --> 01:03:00,900
and that Delbert
killed William.
1395
01:03:00,934 --> 01:03:02,201
That's-That's incredible.
1396
01:03:02,234 --> 01:03:05,468
That's what the new theory
may very well be.
1397
01:03:05,501 --> 01:03:07,534
He had continually said it
was Delbert's,
1398
01:03:07,568 --> 01:03:09,234
it was Delbert's,
it was Delbert's,
1399
01:03:09,267 --> 01:03:11,368
and we kept saying, how in
God's name do you know that?
1400
01:03:11,401 --> 01:03:13,800
Don't you think you should
check and see
if it's William's first?
1401
01:03:13,834 --> 01:03:15,201
Or is it the cow's?
1402
01:03:15,234 --> 01:03:16,634
Or is it somebody else's?
1403
01:03:17,668 --> 01:03:19,501
Now, I am so upset, and I
don't know what else to do.
1404
01:03:19,534 --> 01:03:21,034
If I could,
I told somebody over here,
1405
01:03:21,067 --> 01:03:23,201
if God were to tell me,
today, I'm gonna die,
1406
01:03:23,234 --> 01:03:25,401
the first person I-
this is great for them-
1407
01:03:25,434 --> 01:03:26,468
the first--
[laughing]
1408
01:03:26,501 --> 01:03:28,534
the first person I would kill
is Mr. Cerio.
1409
01:03:28,568 --> 01:03:30,001
I don't have any problem
with the guy
1410
01:03:30,034 --> 01:03:32,401
prosecuting the case
to the best of his ability.
1411
01:03:32,434 --> 01:03:33,800
They're going beyond that.
1412
01:03:33,834 --> 01:03:35,567
I think they look like
a bunch of fools
1413
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,135
in Connie Chung's story.
1414
01:03:37,168 --> 01:03:39,533
I don't know where
a State Police Officer has
the guts--
1415
01:03:39,567 --> 01:03:40,601
[applause]
1416
01:03:40,634 --> 01:03:42,067
...to tell
on national television,
1417
01:03:42,101 --> 01:03:44,001
"I know he did it."
1418
01:03:44,034 --> 01:03:45,867
All of a sudden,
he's judge and jury?
1419
01:03:45,900 --> 01:03:47,201
Let me tell you
something else.
1420
01:03:47,234 --> 01:03:50,167
When this trial comes,
we're gonna have this planned
1421
01:03:50,201 --> 01:03:51,668
as if it was a Broadway show,
1422
01:03:51,701 --> 01:03:53,734
and I'm gonna ask
every one of you right now,
1423
01:03:53,767 --> 01:03:55,800
I want you to find
ten people,
1424
01:03:55,834 --> 01:03:57,301
and I want
that courtroom packed
1425
01:03:57,334 --> 01:03:59,501
every minute of every day,
1426
01:03:59,534 --> 01:04:02,800
and I want you people to look
those jurors in the eye
when they sit there.
1427
01:04:02,834 --> 01:04:04,867
That's what-
that's what I want,
1428
01:04:04,900 --> 01:04:06,700
and we'll take care
of the legal end.
1429
01:04:06,734 --> 01:04:09,234
I guarantee you,
you will be proud
1430
01:04:09,267 --> 01:04:11,334
of what's going to happen,
1431
01:04:11,368 --> 01:04:12,468
but I need your help.
1432
01:04:12,501 --> 01:04:14,901
I-I need your help,
a-and, uh...
1433
01:04:14,935 --> 01:04:17,867
I can't do it without you.
I want you people there.
1434
01:04:17,900 --> 01:04:20,134
Every day, from the moment
we begin,
1435
01:04:20,167 --> 01:04:21,201
to the moment we end.
1436
01:04:21,234 --> 01:04:22,867
You can bring your lunches.
1437
01:04:22,900 --> 01:04:24,067
I-It's gotta be that way.
1438
01:04:24,101 --> 01:04:27,134
I want- I want the people
in Madison county to know
1439
01:04:27,167 --> 01:04:29,134
that this stuff can't happen.
1440
01:04:29,167 --> 01:04:31,401
The problem is,
because it could be you
next time
1441
01:04:31,434 --> 01:04:33,367
or you next time
or you next time.
1442
01:04:38,834 --> 01:04:41,567
[dogs barking in distance]
1443
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:43,033
[door shuts]
1444
01:04:54,500 --> 01:04:56,201
Well, Delbert,
1445
01:04:56,234 --> 01:04:58,434
this is the day
we've been waitin' for,
1446
01:04:58,468 --> 01:04:59,600
maybe we'll get it over.
1447
01:04:59,633 --> 01:05:01,201
Maybe.
I hope so.
1448
01:05:01,234 --> 01:05:02,600
I got one wish.
1449
01:05:02,633 --> 01:05:03,934
My birthday's next Tuesday.
1450
01:05:03,967 --> 01:05:05,868
I hope they bring in
the goddamn verdict
1451
01:05:05,901 --> 01:05:08,533
that you didn't do nothin'
for a birthday present.
1452
01:05:14,533 --> 01:05:16,533
[engine starts]
1453
01:05:26,101 --> 01:05:28,166
[Court Clerk]
All rise, please.
1454
01:05:30,667 --> 01:05:31,534
[gavel bangs]
1455
01:05:31,568 --> 01:05:33,468
Madison County Court
is now in session.
1456
01:05:33,501 --> 01:05:36,568
Honorable William F. O'Brien
the Third presiding.
1457
01:05:36,601 --> 01:05:38,034
Yeah.
Good morning and thank you.
1458
01:05:38,067 --> 01:05:39,266
Have a seat, please.
1459
01:05:41,700 --> 01:05:43,033
[cough]
1460
01:05:46,934 --> 01:05:49,367
Ladies and gentlemen
of the jury.
1461
01:05:51,101 --> 01:05:53,534
This is a murder case,
1462
01:05:53,568 --> 01:05:57,700
wherein, the defendant,
that man...
1463
01:05:57,734 --> 01:05:59,568
...is charged by indictment,
1464
01:05:59,601 --> 01:06:04,534
with having intentionally
caused the death of another...
1465
01:06:04,568 --> 01:06:07,534
...in this case, his brother,
William J. Ward,
1466
01:06:07,568 --> 01:06:10,967
by placing his had or hands
1467
01:06:11,001 --> 01:06:14,867
over the nose and mouth
of his brother...
1468
01:06:14,900 --> 01:06:17,400
...thereby intentionally
causing his death
1469
01:06:17,433 --> 01:06:19,100
by asphyxiation.
1470
01:06:19,934 --> 01:06:22,501
You will hear
that the defendant,
1471
01:06:22,534 --> 01:06:27,134
at that time,
stated to Police Officers,
1472
01:06:27,167 --> 01:06:29,334
"After Bill went to sleep,
1473
01:06:29,368 --> 01:06:32,035
I decided to put my hand
over his mouth."
1474
01:06:32,068 --> 01:06:35,534
He said that he held his hand
there for about five minutes,
1475
01:06:35,568 --> 01:06:37,968
until he felt that William
was dead,
1476
01:06:38,002 --> 01:06:42,134
and at the conclusion
of this case,
ladies and gentlemen...
1477
01:06:42,167 --> 01:06:45,166
...upon the conclusion
of your deliberations...
1478
01:06:48,334 --> 01:06:51,234
...I will ask you to return...
1479
01:06:51,267 --> 01:06:53,801
...a verdict of guilty
in this case.
1480
01:06:53,835 --> 01:06:57,433
Guilty of the crime of murder
in the second degree.
1481
01:07:03,701 --> 01:07:07,834
Ladies and gentlemen,
let me begin
by saying simply...
1482
01:07:07,867 --> 01:07:09,667
...perhaps dramatically, that...
1483
01:07:09,700 --> 01:07:13,233
Delbert Ward did not...
1484
01:07:14,001 --> 01:07:17,002
...murder his brother William.
1485
01:07:17,035 --> 01:07:21,167
Delbert Ward could no sooner
kill his brother, Bill,
1486
01:07:21,201 --> 01:07:23,900
than he could kill
a half-dead tom cat.
1487
01:07:23,934 --> 01:07:25,501
I would submit,
ladies and gentlemen,
1488
01:07:25,534 --> 01:07:27,668
you will unquestionably learn
1489
01:07:27,701 --> 01:07:31,167
that what we have is a child
in the body of a man.
1490
01:07:31,201 --> 01:07:33,834
Here is a man,
whose disability,
1491
01:07:33,867 --> 01:07:36,501
whose simple personality,
1492
01:07:36,534 --> 01:07:38,900
made him susceptible
to tactics,
1493
01:07:38,934 --> 01:07:41,868
that would have been
recognized by you and I,
1494
01:07:41,901 --> 01:07:46,400
as coercive, when used
against Delbert Ward.
1495
01:07:48,767 --> 01:07:51,234
Here's a man, who allegedly...
1496
01:07:51,267 --> 01:07:53,867
...signed an alleged
confession...
1497
01:07:55,101 --> 01:07:57,900
...and that confession, ladies
and gentlemen,
1498
01:07:57,934 --> 01:08:01,501
that confession
is the only proof
1499
01:08:01,534 --> 01:08:03,900
that the prosecutor
will show you,
1500
01:08:03,934 --> 01:08:06,900
will give to you
over the next several days,
1501
01:08:06,934 --> 01:08:08,834
that can connect Delbert
1502
01:08:08,867 --> 01:08:12,334
with the murder
of his brother, Bill.
1503
01:08:12,368 --> 01:08:15,900
There was and is
no independent...
1504
01:08:15,934 --> 01:08:18,201
...medical proof...
1505
01:08:18,234 --> 01:08:22,568
...that William died
as a result of a homicide.
1506
01:08:22,601 --> 01:08:24,967
You must come back,
ladies and gentlemen,
1507
01:08:25,001 --> 01:08:27,467
and tell Delbert and I
that you find him
1508
01:08:27,500 --> 01:08:29,835
not guilty...
1509
01:08:29,868 --> 01:08:33,967
...of the crime of murder
in the second degree.
1510
01:08:34,001 --> 01:08:36,201
As I remember,
1511
01:08:36,234 --> 01:08:40,534
m-m-my feeling was that he
was telling it like he is,
1512
01:08:40,568 --> 01:08:42,501
he didn't know
what was wrong,
1513
01:08:42,534 --> 01:08:45,234
and, uh, that's what he said,
1514
01:08:45,267 --> 01:08:47,267
he said, "Something's wrong
with Bill."
1515
01:08:47,301 --> 01:08:50,401
Oh, all over the world
everybody knows Delbert,
1516
01:08:50,434 --> 01:08:52,534
in our hometown.
[clears throat]
1517
01:08:52,568 --> 01:08:54,800
If you saw him again,
could you pick him out?
1518
01:08:54,834 --> 01:08:55,700
Yeah.
1519
01:08:55,734 --> 01:08:57,034
Could you recognize him?
- Yeah.
1520
01:08:57,067 --> 01:08:58,534
Is he in the courtroom?
- Yeah.
1521
01:08:58,568 --> 01:09:01,500
Well, would you- can you
point him out for us, please?
1522
01:09:01,533 --> 01:09:03,368
Okay.
1523
01:09:03,401 --> 01:09:05,167
The gentleman
with the gray beard?
1524
01:09:05,201 --> 01:09:06,001
What was that?
1525
01:09:06,034 --> 01:09:07,367
The gentleman
with the gray beard?
1526
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:09,001
[laughing]
1527
01:09:09,034 --> 01:09:10,234
What?
1528
01:09:10,267 --> 01:09:12,467
I-Is it the man
with the gray beard
you're pointing to?
1529
01:09:12,500 --> 01:09:14,201
Yes.
1530
01:09:14,234 --> 01:09:15,368
The record may reflect
1531
01:09:15,401 --> 01:09:16,734
that he has identified
the defendant.
1532
01:09:16,767 --> 01:09:18,400
[rooster crows]
1533
01:09:21,266 --> 01:09:22,500
Come on.
1534
01:09:22,533 --> 01:09:24,066
♪♪
1535
01:09:28,867 --> 01:09:30,233
Come on.
1536
01:09:34,567 --> 01:09:36,266
[turkeys gobbling]
1537
01:09:41,834 --> 01:09:43,700
[dogs barking]
1538
01:10:25,735 --> 01:10:27,500
[Judge] You may proceed,
Mr. Cerio.
1539
01:10:27,533 --> 01:10:28,701
Thank you, Your Honor.
1540
01:10:28,735 --> 01:10:30,101
Would you state
your full name, please?
1541
01:10:30,134 --> 01:10:33,201
My full name is Humphrey Don
Germaniuk.
1542
01:10:33,234 --> 01:10:39,166
H-U-M-P-H-R-E-Y-
D-O-N-G-E-R-M-A-N-I-U-K.
1543
01:10:40,334 --> 01:10:43,634
And could you tell us
what a Medical Examiner is?
1544
01:10:43,668 --> 01:10:46,668
A Medical Examiner
is a licensed doctor
1545
01:10:46,701 --> 01:10:50,701
whose function it is to
determine a cause of death,
1546
01:10:50,735 --> 01:10:53,800
a manner of death,
and to investigate death.
1547
01:10:53,834 --> 01:10:55,734
A cause of death
1548
01:10:55,767 --> 01:10:58,167
is any event that,
ultimately,
1549
01:10:58,201 --> 01:11:01,501
is responsible
for the individual's demise.
1550
01:11:01,534 --> 01:11:05,234
The manner of death
are the circumstances
1551
01:11:05,267 --> 01:11:08,067
in which the cause of death
took place.
1552
01:11:08,101 --> 01:11:11,568
Let's take an example
of an unnatural death,
1553
01:11:11,601 --> 01:11:13,734
where there's an individual
lying on the floor
1554
01:11:13,767 --> 01:11:15,501
of his or her home.
1555
01:11:15,534 --> 01:11:18,234
The individual is lying in a
pool of blood.
1556
01:11:18,267 --> 01:11:21,134
There's a revolver
next to the individual.
1557
01:11:21,167 --> 01:11:23,701
There's a hole
in the individual's head.
1558
01:11:23,735 --> 01:11:25,967
The cause of death,
more likely than not,
1559
01:11:26,001 --> 01:11:28,368
would be gunshot wound
to the head.
1560
01:11:28,401 --> 01:11:29,900
But what is the manner?
1561
01:11:29,934 --> 01:11:32,834
What are the circumstances
surrounding that?
1562
01:11:32,867 --> 01:11:35,301
Did someone shoot him or her?
1563
01:11:35,334 --> 01:11:36,867
Did they take their own life?
1564
01:11:36,900 --> 01:11:38,501
Or was it an accident?
1565
01:11:38,534 --> 01:11:41,368
So, even though we may have
the same cause of death,
1566
01:11:41,401 --> 01:11:43,167
the manner may vary.
1567
01:11:43,201 --> 01:11:45,434
Suppose this individual
was a businessman,
1568
01:11:45,468 --> 01:11:47,201
whose business was failing.
1569
01:11:47,234 --> 01:11:48,867
He was in financial troubles.
1570
01:11:48,900 --> 01:11:51,334
Recent divorce,
perhaps depressed.
1571
01:11:51,368 --> 01:11:53,401
There's no evidence of
breaking into the house,
1572
01:11:53,434 --> 01:11:56,067
no evidence of rummaging,
no money taken.
1573
01:11:56,101 --> 01:11:57,734
Then, more likely than not,
we begin to think
1574
01:11:57,767 --> 01:11:59,901
that this could be a suicide.
1575
01:11:59,935 --> 01:12:04,201
Let's take the same body,
same pool of blood, same gun,
1576
01:12:04,234 --> 01:12:06,901
same floor, same building.
1577
01:12:06,935 --> 01:12:09,968
The cause of death is still
gunshot wound to the head,
1578
01:12:10,002 --> 01:12:13,834
but if we find out that the
house has been broken into,
1579
01:12:13,867 --> 01:12:15,468
money has been taken,
1580
01:12:15,501 --> 01:12:17,735
the drawers have been
rummaged and disheveled,
1581
01:12:17,768 --> 01:12:19,468
then we begin to suspect
that perhaps
1582
01:12:19,501 --> 01:12:21,433
this could be a homicide.
1583
01:12:25,134 --> 01:12:28,234
[heavy breathing]
1584
01:12:28,267 --> 01:12:30,734
Mr. Cerio will ask you
some questions, Mr. Ward.
1585
01:12:32,201 --> 01:12:36,700
Mr. Ward,
c-can you hear me okay?
1586
01:12:38,101 --> 01:12:41,700
Can you- can you tell us,
sir, your full name?
1587
01:12:41,734 --> 01:12:43,767
Lyman George Ward.
1588
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:46,734
How old are you, sir?
1589
01:12:46,767 --> 01:12:48,367
How old are you?
1590
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:49,967
Sixty-six.
1591
01:12:50,001 --> 01:12:51,400
Sixty-six?
1592
01:12:55,434 --> 01:12:58,834
Do you remember
when William died?
1593
01:12:59,734 --> 01:13:01,767
I remember when he died.
1594
01:13:04,433 --> 01:13:06,500
Where were you?
1595
01:13:10,334 --> 01:13:11,867
When he died?
- Yes.
1596
01:13:11,900 --> 01:13:14,301
I must have been in bed.
1597
01:13:14,334 --> 01:13:15,800
- Must have been in bed.
- Huh?
1598
01:13:15,834 --> 01:13:17,234
Must have been in bed.
1599
01:13:17,267 --> 01:13:19,800
[unintelligible mumbling]
1600
01:13:19,834 --> 01:13:21,334
Oh.
1601
01:13:21,368 --> 01:13:23,634
You've answered the question,
Mr. Ward.
1602
01:13:23,668 --> 01:13:25,234
I-I believe his answer was,
"Must have been in bed."
1603
01:13:25,267 --> 01:13:27,200
Is that your answer?
- Mm-hmm.
1604
01:13:28,267 --> 01:13:32,700
Mr. Ward,
before your brother died...
1605
01:13:33,900 --> 01:13:37,266
...was there ever any
conversation...
1606
01:13:38,500 --> 01:13:40,200
...about...
1607
01:13:44,034 --> 01:13:45,567
....ending Bill's life?
1608
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:46,433
No.
1609
01:13:47,434 --> 01:13:49,567
You never had that
conversation with anyone?
1610
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:50,934
No.
1611
01:13:53,034 --> 01:13:55,468
Now, this is entitled,
1612
01:13:55,501 --> 01:13:57,500
The Supporting Deposition...
1613
01:13:58,301 --> 01:14:02,568
...and it's dated
June 6th, 1990.
1614
01:14:02,601 --> 01:14:06,834
It reads, "On June 6th, 1990...
1615
01:14:07,734 --> 01:14:10,867
...at 9:30 P.M.
1616
01:14:11,501 --> 01:14:15,401
I... Lyman George Ward,
1617
01:14:15,434 --> 01:14:17,801
state the following:
1618
01:14:17,835 --> 01:14:22,001
Question, "Do you know
how William died?"
1619
01:14:22,034 --> 01:14:24,533
The answer,
"He was smothered."
1620
01:14:25,501 --> 01:14:29,667
Question, "Do you know
who smothered him?"
1621
01:14:29,700 --> 01:14:31,534
The answer, "Delbert."
1622
01:14:31,568 --> 01:14:34,401
Question, "When did Delbert
tell you
1623
01:14:34,434 --> 01:14:36,501
that he smothered your
brother, William?"
1624
01:14:36,534 --> 01:14:38,667
The answer, "This morning,
at the barn."
1625
01:14:38,700 --> 01:14:40,700
[cough]
1626
01:14:43,001 --> 01:14:44,401
[mumbling]
1627
01:14:44,434 --> 01:14:46,534
And, sir, after hearing that,
1628
01:14:46,568 --> 01:14:49,533
do you wanna change
any of your testimony?
1629
01:14:52,867 --> 01:14:54,134
Yeah.
1630
01:14:54,167 --> 01:14:55,967
I'm sorry, Mr... Mr. Ward,
1631
01:14:56,001 --> 01:14:57,501
the Court Reporter
can't hear you
1632
01:14:57,534 --> 01:14:59,001
if you have your arm-
elbow out,
1633
01:14:59,034 --> 01:15:02,401
but if you could turn and
face the jury, thank you.
1634
01:15:02,434 --> 01:15:04,267
Do you want to change
any of your testimony,
1635
01:15:04,301 --> 01:15:05,700
you were asked?
1636
01:15:08,368 --> 01:15:10,868
I won't be here too long.
1637
01:15:10,901 --> 01:15:12,701
His answer was, he wouldn't
be here too long.
1638
01:15:12,735 --> 01:15:14,667
Do you wanna change
any of your testimony?
1639
01:15:14,700 --> 01:15:16,200
Would you, John?
1640
01:15:17,534 --> 01:15:19,735
I-I'm sorry...
- You don't have to be.
1641
01:15:19,768 --> 01:15:24,201
Sir, Mr. Cerio was asking you
a question, Mr. Ward.
1642
01:15:24,234 --> 01:15:27,368
His question was, did you
want to change...
1643
01:15:27,401 --> 01:15:29,667
...any of your testimony?
1644
01:15:35,034 --> 01:15:35,900
Yeah.
1645
01:15:35,934 --> 01:15:37,700
The answer is yes.
1646
01:15:38,834 --> 01:15:40,734
What did you want to change
1647
01:15:40,767 --> 01:15:42,300
of your testimony, Mr. Ward?
1648
01:15:42,333 --> 01:15:43,834
[cough]
1649
01:15:48,067 --> 01:15:51,033
Well, all that I said
wasn't true, anyway.
1650
01:15:52,101 --> 01:15:55,334
What he said wasn't true,
anyway, was his answer.
1651
01:15:55,368 --> 01:15:57,667
Did you mean for that
to be true
when you signed it?
1652
01:15:57,700 --> 01:15:59,033
No.
1653
01:16:00,867 --> 01:16:03,134
Ladies and gentlemen of the,
uh, jury,
1654
01:16:03,167 --> 01:16:05,934
we'll recess now, uh,
and, uh,
1655
01:16:05,967 --> 01:16:07,034
enjoy the rest of the day.
1656
01:16:07,067 --> 01:16:08,900
We'll see you
tomorrow morning.
1657
01:16:08,934 --> 01:16:10,133
♪♪
1658
01:16:25,501 --> 01:16:28,033
Good morning, Mr. Ward,
have a seat, please.
1659
01:16:40,368 --> 01:16:41,834
Wait just a moment.
1660
01:16:41,867 --> 01:16:43,101
[indistinct]
1661
01:16:43,134 --> 01:16:44,867
That's it.
1662
01:16:48,034 --> 01:16:51,767
You may continue the, uh,
direct examination.
1663
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:53,167
Your Honor, if I may approach?
1664
01:16:53,201 --> 01:16:54,533
Yes, you may.
1665
01:16:55,434 --> 01:16:57,401
You tell me if you
can't hear me, okay?
1666
01:16:57,434 --> 01:16:59,767
I can't.
- You can't hear me?
1667
01:17:00,567 --> 01:17:02,600
[mumbling]
1668
01:17:04,835 --> 01:17:07,601
Y-You told us that this
was the statement that, uh,
1669
01:17:07,634 --> 01:17:10,868
you had given while you were
at the State Police barracks?
1670
01:17:10,901 --> 01:17:15,568
Question, "Do you know when
Delbert smothered
your brother, William?"
1671
01:17:15,601 --> 01:17:18,401
"About six AM this morning."
1672
01:17:18,434 --> 01:17:20,034
Do you remember
that question?
1673
01:17:20,067 --> 01:17:21,067
Yeah.
1674
01:17:21,101 --> 01:17:23,367
Do you remember
giving that answer?
1675
01:17:24,333 --> 01:17:25,900
No.
1676
01:17:34,167 --> 01:17:36,700
Sir, the question is,
1677
01:17:36,734 --> 01:17:38,067
"How do you know
that Delbert
1678
01:17:38,101 --> 01:17:40,334
smothered your brother,
William?"
1679
01:17:40,368 --> 01:17:42,967
The answer, "He said he did."
1680
01:17:43,001 --> 01:17:44,201
Do you remember
that question?
1681
01:17:44,234 --> 01:17:45,867
Yeah, but he didn't...
1682
01:17:45,900 --> 01:17:47,333
But, sir, do you remember
the question?
1683
01:17:47,367 --> 01:17:48,468
Yeah.
1684
01:17:48,501 --> 01:17:50,533
Do you remember giving that
answer, "Yes, he did.
1685
01:17:50,567 --> 01:17:51,633
He said he did?"
1686
01:17:51,667 --> 01:17:53,600
Yeah, but he didn't.
1687
01:17:56,101 --> 01:17:58,333
[man]
What did he say?
1688
01:17:58,367 --> 01:17:59,568
[coughing]
1689
01:17:59,601 --> 01:18:01,734
The answer was,
"He didn't."
1690
01:18:06,934 --> 01:18:10,800
I think, I think
the question is, uh...
1691
01:18:12,500 --> 01:18:14,166
Mr. Ward.
1692
01:18:15,368 --> 01:18:17,333
We'll take a ten minute recess.
1693
01:18:19,533 --> 01:18:21,266
The Jury may step aside.
1694
01:19:07,368 --> 01:19:09,034
Just makes you sick.
1695
01:19:09,067 --> 01:19:13,334
Cruelty to animals,
let alone human beings.
1696
01:19:13,368 --> 01:19:14,800
That's cruel!
1697
01:19:14,834 --> 01:19:16,468
He's illiterate, completely.
1698
01:19:16,501 --> 01:19:18,167
He can't even tell time.
1699
01:19:18,201 --> 01:19:20,034
Trying to get him to read
a goddamn thing
1700
01:19:20,067 --> 01:19:23,400
that Donnegan wrote,
bullshit.
1701
01:19:23,433 --> 01:19:25,333
[dogs barking]
1702
01:19:28,001 --> 01:19:30,234
[cows mooing]
1703
01:19:30,267 --> 01:19:32,400
[Interviewer] The courthouse
the other day, how was that?
1704
01:19:32,433 --> 01:19:33,834
I went to pieces.
1705
01:19:33,867 --> 01:19:35,834
I all went to pieces.
1706
01:19:35,867 --> 01:19:37,734
Damn near died down there.
1707
01:19:39,134 --> 01:19:41,066
Yeah, we felt bad for you.
1708
01:19:43,267 --> 01:19:44,834
It's okay, Lyman.
1709
01:19:44,867 --> 01:19:46,100
It's over.
1710
01:19:49,568 --> 01:19:51,533
- I couldn't take it.
- No.
1711
01:19:59,234 --> 01:20:01,201
- Hey, Roscoe.
- Yeah?
1712
01:20:01,234 --> 01:20:03,067
Did you hear what happened
down at the courthouse?
1713
01:20:03,101 --> 01:20:04,800
- Yeah.
- To Lyman?
1714
01:20:04,834 --> 01:20:05,967
Yeah.
1715
01:20:06,001 --> 01:20:07,533
What- what'd you hear
about it?
1716
01:20:07,567 --> 01:20:09,367
He pretty near died.
1717
01:20:11,234 --> 01:20:13,001
Pretty near died.
1718
01:20:14,467 --> 01:20:15,967
♪♪
1719
01:20:35,434 --> 01:20:37,468
[Cognetti] Can you identify
that for us, Doctor?
1720
01:20:37,501 --> 01:20:43,468
Yes, we have one, two, three,
four, five containers
1721
01:20:43,501 --> 01:20:45,534
holding various specimens
1722
01:20:45,568 --> 01:20:50,401
from Medical Examiner
case number 900391.
1723
01:20:50,434 --> 01:20:51,534
And who would that be?
1724
01:20:51,568 --> 01:20:53,834
That would be William Ward.
1725
01:20:55,668 --> 01:20:58,234
Can you identify that for us?
1726
01:20:58,267 --> 01:21:00,901
People's exhibit 21
1727
01:21:00,935 --> 01:21:05,468
identifies the head
and regions of the neck
1728
01:21:05,501 --> 01:21:08,801
of case number 90 dash 0391.
1729
01:21:08,835 --> 01:21:10,800
How is it that you can
identify this?
1730
01:21:10,834 --> 01:21:12,468
The identifying numbers
1731
01:21:12,501 --> 01:21:15,501
are right here
on the front part
of the neck.
1732
01:21:15,534 --> 01:21:18,401
Doctor, after having
photographed there,
what did you do?
1733
01:21:18,434 --> 01:21:20,735
I then continued examining
the eyes.
1734
01:21:20,768 --> 01:21:23,334
I looked at the upper eyelids
and lower eyelids,
1735
01:21:23,368 --> 01:21:24,568
and in the lower eyelids,
1736
01:21:24,601 --> 01:21:26,301
I noticed what
are called petechiae.
1737
01:21:26,334 --> 01:21:28,735
I also examined
the dental arches.
1738
01:21:28,768 --> 01:21:32,134
Uh, the individual, uh,
had no teeth,
1739
01:21:32,167 --> 01:21:34,768
and what I noticed was,
on the upper dental arch,
1740
01:21:34,801 --> 01:21:38,234
on the right side, there was
also these diffuse petechiae,
1741
01:21:38,267 --> 01:21:40,834
or pinpoint blood spots.
1742
01:21:40,867 --> 01:21:42,900
All throughout the windpipe,
1743
01:21:42,934 --> 01:21:45,401
beginning with the little
blade on top,
1744
01:21:45,434 --> 01:21:48,501
called the epiglottis,
down to the windpipe,
1745
01:21:48,534 --> 01:21:50,067
where it breaks in half
1746
01:21:50,101 --> 01:21:52,234
to feed the right lung
and the left lung,
1747
01:21:52,267 --> 01:21:54,001
had multiple, uh,
1748
01:21:54,034 --> 01:21:57,867
numerous of these red
pinpoint bloody spots.
1749
01:21:57,900 --> 01:22:01,167
With that diffuse spray
of petechiae,
1750
01:22:01,201 --> 01:22:03,834
the large numbers of
petechiae that were there
1751
01:22:03,867 --> 01:22:05,634
and their distribution,
1752
01:22:05,668 --> 01:22:07,900
I first began to think
that we may be dealing with
1753
01:22:07,934 --> 01:22:10,734
an asphyxial type of death.
1754
01:22:10,767 --> 01:22:12,035
In my opinion,
1755
01:22:12,068 --> 01:22:15,134
based upon a reasonable
degree of medical certainty,
1756
01:22:15,167 --> 01:22:18,034
this is not a case
of asphyxiation.
1757
01:22:18,067 --> 01:22:22,067
There are, uh, four
significant, uh, findings
1758
01:22:22,101 --> 01:22:27,800
that I would look for
in a case of asphyxiation,
1759
01:22:27,834 --> 01:22:30,500
that are not present
in this case.
1760
01:22:30,533 --> 01:22:31,867
No cyanosis,
1761
01:22:31,900 --> 01:22:33,634
no increased liquidity
of blood,
1762
01:22:33,668 --> 01:22:36,234
no injuries
around the nose, mouth,
1763
01:22:36,267 --> 01:22:38,834
gums, chin, tongue,
1764
01:22:38,867 --> 01:22:40,633
and, um,
1765
01:22:40,667 --> 01:22:43,234
the absence of...
1766
01:22:43,267 --> 01:22:47,401
even the slightest suggestion
of regurgitation.
1767
01:22:47,434 --> 01:22:50,034
When you are
being asphyxiated,
1768
01:22:50,067 --> 01:22:52,967
you are struggling
and gasping for air,
1769
01:22:53,001 --> 01:22:54,667
food is gonna come back up
on you,
1770
01:22:54,700 --> 01:22:55,900
you're gonna start retching.
1771
01:22:55,934 --> 01:22:58,167
There is none of that,
whatsoever.
1772
01:22:58,201 --> 01:22:59,234
Zero.
1773
01:23:00,267 --> 01:23:02,333
[metal clattering]
1774
01:23:14,767 --> 01:23:16,333
[clearing throat]
1775
01:23:19,667 --> 01:23:20,834
[quiet shot]
1776
01:23:20,867 --> 01:23:22,834
[pig squealing]
1777
01:23:32,567 --> 01:23:34,700
Roll over, goddamn you.
1778
01:24:43,801 --> 01:24:45,534
Delbert, you wanna grab me
that meat cleaver
1779
01:24:45,568 --> 01:24:47,735
and knife sharpener
out the front passenger seat?
1780
01:24:47,768 --> 01:24:50,567
You have to get in my door,
that one's locked.
1781
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,367
[motor whirring]
1782
01:25:30,067 --> 01:25:31,667
Thanks, Moses.
1783
01:25:35,601 --> 01:25:37,501
[Cognetti] Doctor, it's true,
is it not,
1784
01:25:37,534 --> 01:25:39,301
that at the conclusion
of your internal
1785
01:25:39,334 --> 01:25:42,368
and external examination,
you could not say,
1786
01:25:42,401 --> 01:25:45,800
with a required degree
of medical certainty,
1787
01:25:45,834 --> 01:25:48,167
the cause or the manner
of death?
1788
01:25:48,201 --> 01:25:49,533
That is correct.
1789
01:25:49,567 --> 01:25:51,135
By that, I mean to say,
1790
01:25:51,168 --> 01:25:54,067
you couldn't, certainly with
any degree of-of certainty,
1791
01:25:54,101 --> 01:25:55,700
indicate that it was
a homicide.
1792
01:25:55,734 --> 01:25:57,167
That is correct.
1793
01:25:57,201 --> 01:25:59,167
But now, you're talking
with Mr. Cerio,
1794
01:25:59,201 --> 01:26:00,701
and your notes indicate
1795
01:26:00,735 --> 01:26:03,700
that you tell him that I
cannot rule out homicide.
1796
01:26:03,734 --> 01:26:05,868
Am I right?
- That is correct.
1797
01:26:05,901 --> 01:26:09,134
Once you got to the scene,
Doctor, uh,
1798
01:26:09,167 --> 01:26:11,334
were not you advised,
immediately,
1799
01:26:11,368 --> 01:26:13,500
to call the State Police
barracks in Oneida?
1800
01:26:13,533 --> 01:26:14,867
We were.
1801
01:26:14,900 --> 01:26:16,534
And, at the conclusion
of this call,
1802
01:26:16,568 --> 01:26:19,534
did he not tell you
that Delbert had confessed
1803
01:26:19,568 --> 01:26:21,533
to the killing
of his brother?
1804
01:26:23,500 --> 01:26:24,467
Yes.
1805
01:26:25,334 --> 01:26:28,067
So that death certificate,
Doctor,
1806
01:26:28,101 --> 01:26:32,101
came about as a result
of your learning
1807
01:26:32,134 --> 01:26:34,568
that Mr. Ward had confessed
1808
01:26:34,601 --> 01:26:37,067
to the crime of murder
in the second degree?
1809
01:26:37,101 --> 01:26:38,201
No.
1810
01:26:38,234 --> 01:26:40,634
Doctor, if you
had never learned
1811
01:26:40,668 --> 01:26:44,468
that Mr. Ward...
had confessed
1812
01:26:44,501 --> 01:26:46,734
to the crime of murder
in the second degree,
1813
01:26:46,767 --> 01:26:48,367
would you...
1814
01:26:50,035 --> 01:26:53,967
...on June 7th, have changed
that death certificate?
1815
01:26:54,001 --> 01:26:55,134
No.
1816
01:26:55,167 --> 01:26:57,001
So, let me go back then,
Doctor.
1817
01:26:57,034 --> 01:27:00,368
That death certificate
was changed
1818
01:27:00,401 --> 01:27:03,734
because you now learned
1819
01:27:03,767 --> 01:27:06,167
that Mr. Ward had confessed
1820
01:27:06,201 --> 01:27:08,968
to the crime of murder
in the second degree?
1821
01:27:09,002 --> 01:27:12,368
But that was not the only
piece of information.
1822
01:27:12,401 --> 01:27:14,534
We know about the petechiae.
1823
01:27:14,568 --> 01:27:15,700
Correct?
- Correct.
1824
01:27:15,734 --> 01:27:17,234
But we know, Doctor,
1825
01:27:17,267 --> 01:27:19,900
as we talked about
innumerable times yesterday,
1826
01:27:19,934 --> 01:27:22,034
that at that stage,
1827
01:27:22,067 --> 01:27:24,867
there were a host of reasons
for petechiae.
1828
01:27:24,900 --> 01:27:26,301
That is correct.
1829
01:27:26,334 --> 01:27:28,167
So, we'll put that aside.
1830
01:27:28,201 --> 01:27:30,735
Because, as you
just indicated,
1831
01:27:30,768 --> 01:27:33,634
that would not
have been enough...
1832
01:27:33,668 --> 01:27:36,734
...to warrant a change
in that death certificate
1833
01:27:36,767 --> 01:27:38,034
on June 7th.
1834
01:27:38,067 --> 01:27:39,667
That's correct.
1835
01:27:39,700 --> 01:27:41,901
So again, let me ask you.
1836
01:27:41,935 --> 01:27:47,633
That death certificate
was changed, on June 7th,
1837
01:27:47,667 --> 01:27:49,868
for the sole reason
1838
01:27:49,901 --> 01:27:53,301
that Mr. Ward had confessed
to the crime.
1839
01:27:53,334 --> 01:27:56,301
Isn't that the reason,
on June 7th,
1840
01:27:56,334 --> 01:27:58,467
that that death certificate
was changed?
1841
01:27:58,500 --> 01:27:59,900
No.
1842
01:28:00,901 --> 01:28:02,900
[Dr. Wecht] In my opinion,
the cause of death
1843
01:28:02,934 --> 01:28:08,001
of Mr. William Ward
was right heart failure,
1844
01:28:08,034 --> 01:28:11,568
resulting in pulmonary edema,
1845
01:28:11,601 --> 01:28:15,633
the, uh, collection of a
substantial amount of fluid
1846
01:28:15,667 --> 01:28:17,200
in the lungs.
1847
01:28:18,434 --> 01:28:21,668
[Delbert]
I tried to tell him
I didn't do it...
1848
01:28:21,701 --> 01:28:26,034
...and Geen Rifenberg
and "Kellogg" said I did.
1849
01:28:26,067 --> 01:28:26,834
[Cerio]
Okay.
1850
01:28:26,867 --> 01:28:28,401
They kept right after me
1851
01:28:28,434 --> 01:28:30,534
and said if I cooperated
with the police,
1852
01:28:30,568 --> 01:28:31,867
they'd go much easier on me.
1853
01:28:31,900 --> 01:28:33,468
Mm-hmm.
1854
01:28:33,501 --> 01:28:36,034
So, finally, I thought
if I cooperated with 'em,
1855
01:28:36,067 --> 01:28:37,266
I'd get out of there
and get home.
1856
01:28:37,300 --> 01:28:38,234
Okay.
1857
01:28:38,267 --> 01:28:39,667
But I didn't.
- You didn't?
1858
01:28:39,700 --> 01:28:40,634
No.
1859
01:28:40,668 --> 01:28:42,001
You were gonna cooperate
with them?
1860
01:28:42,034 --> 01:28:45,634
Yes, and Mr. Rifenburg
is the one who showed me
1861
01:28:45,668 --> 01:28:49,167
how I put my hand over
William's mouth and nose.
1862
01:28:49,201 --> 01:28:50,668
Uh-huh.
1863
01:28:50,701 --> 01:28:52,001
And that happened
in that room?
1864
01:28:52,034 --> 01:28:53,301
That happened in that room.
1865
01:28:53,334 --> 01:28:55,034
It's not that you showed him
how it happened?
1866
01:28:55,067 --> 01:28:57,700
No, I didn't how him.
He showed me.
1867
01:28:59,402 --> 01:29:02,800
Mr. Ward, what other kind
of shows do you watch
besides Westerns?
1868
01:29:02,834 --> 01:29:04,800
Oh, some of the police stories.
1869
01:29:04,834 --> 01:29:06,568
Police stories?
- Mm-hmm.
1870
01:29:06,601 --> 01:29:08,001
What kind of police
story shows?
1871
01:29:08,034 --> 01:29:09,967
Like "Matlock" there
and "Heat of the Night."
1872
01:29:10,001 --> 01:29:12,368
That's about the only two.
1873
01:29:12,401 --> 01:29:13,700
Okay, ever watch "Hunter?"
1874
01:29:13,734 --> 01:29:15,735
No.
- Never saw "Hunter?"
1875
01:29:15,768 --> 01:29:18,067
A couple times, a little bit,
I-I didn't care for it.
1876
01:29:18,101 --> 01:29:20,401
Didn't care for it?
Okay.
1877
01:29:20,434 --> 01:29:22,067
When do they come on,
during the day?
1878
01:29:22,101 --> 01:29:23,267
No.
1879
01:29:23,301 --> 01:29:24,967
What time do they come on?
- Eight o'clock at night.
1880
01:29:25,001 --> 01:29:26,734
"Matlock" comes on
Tuesday nights.
1881
01:29:26,767 --> 01:29:28,001
Tuesday nights.
1882
01:29:28,034 --> 01:29:29,633
What's "Matlock?"
1883
01:29:29,667 --> 01:29:31,467
Remember Andy Griffith?
1884
01:29:31,500 --> 01:29:32,501
Yep.
1885
01:29:32,534 --> 01:29:34,401
That's- that's the one
I'm talkin' about.
1886
01:29:34,434 --> 01:29:37,800
Only, he calls himself,
Ben Matlock, for the lawyer.
1887
01:29:37,834 --> 01:29:39,034
Oh, he's a lawyer now?
1888
01:29:39,067 --> 01:29:40,067
Right.
1889
01:29:40,101 --> 01:29:41,533
Do you know what kind
of a lawyer he is?
1890
01:29:41,567 --> 01:29:42,667
Defense lawyer.
1891
01:29:42,700 --> 01:29:44,301
He's not a prosecutor?
1892
01:29:44,334 --> 01:29:45,834
He's a de-defense lawyer?
1893
01:29:45,867 --> 01:29:47,067
He's a defense lawyer,
I think.
1894
01:29:47,101 --> 01:29:47,900
Okay.
1895
01:29:48,934 --> 01:29:51,001
I know he gets into a lot
of them murder trials.
1896
01:29:51,034 --> 01:29:52,301
Mm-hmm.
1897
01:29:52,334 --> 01:29:53,834
You ever watch
"Wheel of Fortune?"
1898
01:29:53,867 --> 01:29:55,701
Yes, I watch that
some nights.
1899
01:29:55,735 --> 01:29:58,334
Do you know, uh, the girl
who's on "Wheel of Fortune?"
1900
01:29:58,368 --> 01:29:59,934
Amanda White.
1901
01:30:01,533 --> 01:30:03,668
And, uh...
1902
01:30:03,701 --> 01:30:05,900
...any other kind of shows
you watch?
1903
01:30:05,934 --> 01:30:08,001
Oh, yes, I watch that
"Jeopardy."
1904
01:30:08,034 --> 01:30:09,201
"Jeopardy?"
- Mm-hmm.
1905
01:30:09,234 --> 01:30:10,801
You try to answer
some of the questions?
1906
01:30:10,835 --> 01:30:12,600
Some of 'em, but I don't get
very far on 'em.
1907
01:30:12,633 --> 01:30:14,066
No? Okay.
1908
01:30:15,067 --> 01:30:16,801
I want to show you something,
Mr. Ward.
1909
01:30:16,835 --> 01:30:19,301
This is what's marked
as People's 19.
1910
01:30:19,334 --> 01:30:20,401
Can you take a look at that
for me?
1911
01:30:20,434 --> 01:30:21,501
I can't see it.
- Can't see it.
1912
01:30:21,534 --> 01:30:22,834
- No.
- You can't see this?
1913
01:30:22,867 --> 01:30:24,067
No, not without my glasses.
1914
01:30:24,101 --> 01:30:25,533
I see.
1915
01:30:26,735 --> 01:30:28,234
You can't read any of this?
- No.
1916
01:30:28,267 --> 01:30:29,668
Not at all?
- No.
1917
01:30:29,701 --> 01:30:32,533
You didn't bring
your glasses?
- No, I didn't bring 'em.
1918
01:30:32,567 --> 01:30:34,001
They's no good anyway.
1919
01:30:34,034 --> 01:30:35,200
- I see.
1920
01:30:36,501 --> 01:30:38,368
Did you ever want
your own bed?
1921
01:30:38,401 --> 01:30:40,201
Sometimes, but I didn't
have it.
1922
01:30:40,234 --> 01:30:41,533
Ever want your own room?
1923
01:30:41,567 --> 01:30:43,033
Sometimes.
1924
01:30:44,201 --> 01:30:46,201
Did it bother you when
William would get up
1925
01:30:46,234 --> 01:30:47,568
in the middle of the night?
1926
01:30:47,601 --> 01:30:48,901
Well, sometimes he'd holler
at me,
1927
01:30:48,935 --> 01:30:50,667
tell me it was time to get up
and go get the cows
1928
01:30:50,700 --> 01:30:51,967
and put them in to milk them.
1929
01:30:52,001 --> 01:30:53,601
Go do the chores?
- Mm-hmm.
1930
01:30:53,634 --> 01:30:55,368
But it wasn't time?
- No.
1931
01:30:55,401 --> 01:30:57,201
So, he'd wake you up?
- He'd still wake you up.
1932
01:30:57,234 --> 01:30:58,901
Yeah.
1933
01:30:58,935 --> 01:31:01,067
And he'd do that a couple of
times during the night,
wouldn't he?
1934
01:31:01,101 --> 01:31:02,066
Some nights.
1935
01:31:03,167 --> 01:31:04,967
So, you wouldn't get
too much sleep, would you?
1936
01:31:05,001 --> 01:31:06,334
Not all the while.
1937
01:31:06,368 --> 01:31:09,234
Will was having some problem
holding his water, wasn't he?
1938
01:31:09,267 --> 01:31:11,201
Yes, he couldn't
hold it good.
1939
01:31:11,234 --> 01:31:12,333
He'd wake you up,
wouldn't he?
1940
01:31:12,367 --> 01:31:14,067
Sometimes.
1941
01:31:14,101 --> 01:31:16,401
Now, you said that, uh,
1942
01:31:16,434 --> 01:31:18,633
Bill had the headaches and
the stomachaches, right?
1943
01:31:18,667 --> 01:31:19,668
Right.
1944
01:31:19,701 --> 01:31:21,501
Did he ever say anything
to you about, uh,
1945
01:31:21,534 --> 01:31:23,468
if he died,
what would happen?
1946
01:31:23,501 --> 01:31:26,201
Yes, he said, some morning,
I wasn't gonna wake up and...
1947
01:31:26,234 --> 01:31:29,134
[stammering] one of us would
be arrested for his murder.
1948
01:31:29,167 --> 01:31:31,234
That's what he told you?
- That's what he told me.
1949
01:31:31,267 --> 01:31:33,634
Told me, told me outdoors.
1950
01:31:33,668 --> 01:31:35,301
- Told you outdoors, he did?
- Mm-hmm.
1951
01:31:35,334 --> 01:31:36,834
When did he tell you that?
1952
01:31:37,935 --> 01:31:40,567
Well, I don't know,
must've been April or May.
1953
01:31:43,735 --> 01:31:45,934
He said that he was gonna die
some night?
1954
01:31:45,967 --> 01:31:47,334
That's what he said.
1955
01:31:47,368 --> 01:31:49,368
And that, uh,
1956
01:31:49,401 --> 01:31:51,700
one of you would be arrested
for his murder?
1957
01:31:51,734 --> 01:31:53,034
Yes.
- That's what he said?
1958
01:31:53,067 --> 01:31:54,567
That's what he said.
1959
01:31:55,634 --> 01:31:56,634
Would you raise
your hands, sir,
1960
01:31:56,668 --> 01:31:58,368
and show those to
the jury, please.
1961
01:31:58,401 --> 01:31:59,901
Thank you, sir.
1962
01:31:59,935 --> 01:32:02,500
[Judge]
The record should reflect
he's done that.
1963
01:32:02,533 --> 01:32:03,867
♪♪
1964
01:32:07,568 --> 01:32:09,700
In case, uh, Delbert
goes to jail,
1965
01:32:09,734 --> 01:32:12,667
or something
happens to him,
1966
01:32:12,700 --> 01:32:14,034
we had to
make out a will,
1967
01:32:14,067 --> 01:32:16,568
so that the stuff would go
where he wanted it to go,
1968
01:32:16,601 --> 01:32:18,334
and not where the
State wants it to go,
1969
01:32:18,368 --> 01:32:20,868
and the way things have been
going against us all the way
1970
01:32:20,901 --> 01:32:24,968
so far, there's a real good
possibility of it.
1971
01:32:25,002 --> 01:32:27,267
It's like I explained to
Delbert, didn't I, Delbert?
1972
01:32:27,301 --> 01:32:28,267
I didn't...
1973
01:32:28,301 --> 01:32:29,501
You explained it to me.
1974
01:32:29,534 --> 01:32:31,301
...tell him that things
looked good or rosy.
1975
01:32:31,334 --> 01:32:33,135
I told him there's a damn
good looking chance
1976
01:32:33,168 --> 01:32:35,667
that he's gonna go to prison
for something he didn't do.
1977
01:32:37,101 --> 01:32:39,533
I don't feel good about it.
1978
01:32:39,567 --> 01:32:41,266
I may go to jail.
1979
01:32:42,267 --> 01:32:43,834
I may not live long.
1980
01:32:46,868 --> 01:32:48,735
What type of person did the
State Police believe
1981
01:32:48,768 --> 01:32:51,134
they were bringing to the
barracks that night?
1982
01:32:51,167 --> 01:32:53,900
I would submit, that they
felt they were bringing
1983
01:32:53,934 --> 01:32:56,967
a bunch of queer
old farmers,
1984
01:32:57,001 --> 01:33:00,401
who lived like animals, who
were stupid...
1985
01:33:00,434 --> 01:33:03,401
...and ignorant, without
a friend in the world.
1986
01:33:03,434 --> 01:33:04,767
Do you really wanna believe
1987
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:07,234
that the New York State Police,
1988
01:33:07,267 --> 01:33:11,167
the Medical Examiners
of Onondaga County,
1989
01:33:11,201 --> 01:33:15,034
decided to pick
on Delbert Ward
1990
01:33:15,067 --> 01:33:16,368
for no other reason than,
1991
01:33:16,401 --> 01:33:17,967
"Let's come up
with a homicide.
1992
01:33:18,001 --> 01:33:19,468
Let's come up with a murder,
1993
01:33:19,501 --> 01:33:22,967
and let's pick out
that man to do it."
1994
01:33:23,001 --> 01:33:25,534
We know him to be educably,
1995
01:33:25,568 --> 01:33:29,333
mentally retarded with
a schizoid personality.
1996
01:33:30,434 --> 01:33:33,002
William was 64 years of age,
ladies and gentlemen.
1997
01:33:33,035 --> 01:33:38,468
He died a natural death in
his sleep from heart failure,
1998
01:33:38,501 --> 01:33:41,800
the most common form of
death of a man that age.
1999
01:33:41,834 --> 01:33:43,567
You, ladies and gentlemen,
2000
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:45,266
saw the defendant testify.
2001
01:33:47,601 --> 01:33:49,934
You make the assessment
as to whether or not...
2002
01:33:53,234 --> 01:33:55,334
...he's an
intelligent fellow.
2003
01:33:55,368 --> 01:33:58,400
Yeah, are there some
social deprivations?
2004
01:33:58,433 --> 01:33:59,834
Yes.
2005
01:33:59,867 --> 01:34:02,167
I don't think you
can dispute that.
2006
01:34:02,201 --> 01:34:05,401
Does this person
appear to simply be
2007
01:34:05,434 --> 01:34:09,734
a person with an IQ of 63 and
educably, mentally retarded?
2008
01:34:09,767 --> 01:34:11,934
Or does it appear
to be higher?
2009
01:34:11,967 --> 01:34:15,167
There is no independent
medical proof which,
2010
01:34:15,201 --> 01:34:18,334
standing alone without
that confession,
2011
01:34:18,368 --> 01:34:23,167
says that William died
as a result of a murder.
2012
01:34:23,201 --> 01:34:25,633
The only thing that has been
given to you people
2013
01:34:25,667 --> 01:34:27,734
is this alleged confession.
2014
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:30,801
Taken from a man
2015
01:34:30,835 --> 01:34:35,533
whose very appearance cries
out for special treatment.
2016
01:34:38,701 --> 01:34:41,835
As expected, both sides gave
strong closing arguments,
2017
01:34:41,868 --> 01:34:44,067
and after three weeks
of emotional testimony,
2018
01:34:44,101 --> 01:34:45,401
the fate of Delbert Ward
2019
01:34:45,434 --> 01:34:47,401
now rests in
the hands of the jury.
2020
01:34:47,434 --> 01:34:49,400
Paula Garell, Channel 3 News.
2021
01:34:51,201 --> 01:34:55,400
Um, I -I wanna say the jury
is now deliberating.
2022
01:34:55,433 --> 01:34:57,001
♪♪
2023
01:35:05,234 --> 01:35:06,368
How's Mr. Ward doing?
2024
01:35:06,401 --> 01:35:08,534
- He's fine.
- Nervous?
2025
01:35:08,568 --> 01:35:10,934
He's as nervous
as any of us, I'm sure.
2026
01:35:12,567 --> 01:35:14,001
Is that it?
2027
01:35:14,034 --> 01:35:15,301
Thanks, Ralph.
2028
01:35:15,334 --> 01:35:18,934
[faint chatter]
2029
01:35:23,167 --> 01:35:24,333
[coughing]
2030
01:35:31,901 --> 01:35:34,035
[Male Reporter]
Time for an update, now, on
tonight's top stories.
2031
01:35:34,068 --> 01:35:35,835
[Female Reporter]
First, go live
to Christie Casciano
2032
01:35:35,868 --> 01:35:37,768
at the Delbert Ward
trial in Wampsville.
2033
01:35:37,801 --> 01:35:39,968
Christie, what's happened
over the last hour?
2034
01:35:40,002 --> 01:35:43,167
Well, since we last talked,
the jury left, as we said,
2035
01:35:43,201 --> 01:35:45,701
for a dinner break, and the
verdict has not been quick
2036
01:35:45,735 --> 01:35:48,834
in coming, as some courtroom
observers have predicted.
2037
01:35:48,867 --> 01:35:50,501
The jury has the task
2038
01:35:50,534 --> 01:35:52,900
of deciding whether Delbert
Ward committed murder.
2039
01:35:52,934 --> 01:35:54,867
Whether he
suffocated his brother
2040
01:35:54,900 --> 01:35:56,967
on their Stockbridge
farm last June.
2041
01:35:57,001 --> 01:35:59,735
The jury got the case
at 11:30 this morning.
2042
01:35:59,768 --> 01:36:01,700
Since that time, they've been
weighing evidence,
2043
01:36:01,734 --> 01:36:03,401
sifting through testimony,
2044
01:36:03,434 --> 01:36:05,834
and they've been at
it for about six hours.
2045
01:36:05,867 --> 01:36:07,767
They left the
courtroom, as we said,
2046
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:09,567
about a half hour ago,
six o'clock.
2047
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:10,701
They're on a dinner break.
2048
01:36:10,735 --> 01:36:13,001
They're expected back
here at eight o'clock,
2049
01:36:13,034 --> 01:36:15,201
and we will
be back here, too,
2050
01:36:15,234 --> 01:36:16,634
and bringing you
the latest at 11.
2051
01:36:16,668 --> 01:36:18,800
Right now, let's
go to Lisa Sweitzer
2052
01:36:18,834 --> 01:36:20,900
for more of today's
top stories.
2053
01:36:22,034 --> 01:36:23,468
[Judge] Uh, ladies and
gentlemen, the, uh,
2054
01:36:23,501 --> 01:36:25,001
jury has advised the court
2055
01:36:25,034 --> 01:36:26,167
that they have
reached a verdict,
2056
01:36:26,201 --> 01:36:28,968
and I now admonish all of
those here in the courtroom,
2057
01:36:29,002 --> 01:36:34,201
including spectators, that
you are to remain seated
2058
01:36:34,234 --> 01:36:36,234
throughout the entire
2059
01:36:36,267 --> 01:36:38,668
reporting of the
verdict procedure.
2060
01:36:38,701 --> 01:36:40,834
In the event that there
should be any violations
2061
01:36:40,867 --> 01:36:42,867
of that, I will
close the courtroom,
2062
01:36:42,900 --> 01:36:45,368
you will be escorted
from the courtroom,
2063
01:36:45,401 --> 01:36:47,835
and you can find about,
find out the verdict
2064
01:36:47,868 --> 01:36:50,034
by either reading about
it in the newspaper
2065
01:36:50,067 --> 01:36:52,034
or seeing it on television.
2066
01:36:52,067 --> 01:36:55,368
There are to be
no audible reactions
2067
01:36:55,401 --> 01:36:59,067
or emotional outbursts by
anyone in this room,
2068
01:36:59,101 --> 01:37:02,867
and I mean that, and if
there are any outbursts,
2069
01:37:02,900 --> 01:37:05,801
I'm gonna empty
the whole courtroom.
2070
01:37:05,835 --> 01:37:07,400
The jurors may return
to the courtroom.
2071
01:37:09,633 --> 01:37:10,700
[coughing]
2072
01:37:29,901 --> 01:37:33,201
Ladies and gentlemen of the
jury, I understand, uh, from
2073
01:37:33,234 --> 01:37:35,734
the court clerk, that the,
uh, jury has, in fact,
2074
01:37:35,767 --> 01:37:37,368
reached a verdict,
and, uh,
2075
01:37:37,401 --> 01:37:39,667
- Mr. Broderick, is that so?
- Yes, sir.
2076
01:37:39,700 --> 01:37:40,735
All right.
2077
01:37:40,768 --> 01:37:43,166
The court attendant will
receive the card.
2078
01:37:54,534 --> 01:37:56,700
Mr, uh, Broderick, the, uh,
2079
01:37:56,734 --> 01:37:59,168
court has, uh, received the
2080
01:37:59,202 --> 01:38:01,800
verdict sheet, and I now ask
you, as the foreman of this
2081
01:38:01,834 --> 01:38:03,167
jury, have you, in fact,
2082
01:38:03,201 --> 01:38:05,167
reached a verdict
in this case?
2083
01:38:05,201 --> 01:38:06,334
Yes, they have.
2084
01:38:06,368 --> 01:38:08,834
What is the verdict
of this jury
2085
01:38:08,867 --> 01:38:10,167
in connection with the crime
2086
01:38:10,201 --> 01:38:11,901
of murder in the
second degree?
2087
01:38:11,935 --> 01:38:15,101
Have you found the defendant
guilty or not guilty?
2088
01:38:15,134 --> 01:38:16,267
- Not guilty.
- Not guilty.
2089
01:38:16,301 --> 01:38:19,234
- Not guilty.
[crowd murmuring]
2090
01:38:19,267 --> 01:38:23,301
Ladies and gentlemen
of this jury, the, uh,
2091
01:38:23,334 --> 01:38:26,067
court had heard Mr. Broderick
announce that the verdict
2092
01:38:26,101 --> 01:38:29,368
is that of not guilty of
murder in the second degree.
2093
01:38:29,401 --> 01:38:31,134
I now ask all of you, uh,
2094
01:38:31,167 --> 01:38:33,567
is this your verdict,
so say you all?
2095
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:34,735
[Jury]
Yes.
2096
01:38:34,768 --> 01:38:37,634
Mr. Ward, you are excused
now, and you can leave.
2097
01:38:37,668 --> 01:38:40,533
We'll ask the, uh,
media to step aside
2098
01:38:40,567 --> 01:38:41,734
so that you can leave.
2099
01:38:42,735 --> 01:38:44,001
Thank you very much,
ladies and gentlemen
2100
01:38:44,034 --> 01:38:45,267
for your respect
and attention.
2101
01:38:45,301 --> 01:38:47,867
[applause]
2102
01:38:53,134 --> 01:38:54,167
God bless you.
2103
01:38:54,201 --> 01:38:55,301
[Male Reporter 1]
So, that smile says it all?
2104
01:38:55,334 --> 01:38:56,334
- Yup.
- Yup.
2105
01:38:56,368 --> 01:38:58,268
Thank all my friends.
2106
01:38:58,302 --> 01:39:00,034
[Female Reporter]
What's next for you, Delbert,
back to the farm?
2107
01:39:00,067 --> 01:39:01,401
Back to the farm.
2108
01:39:01,434 --> 01:39:02,700
[Male Reporter 2]
How does it feel, Mr. Ward?
2109
01:39:02,734 --> 01:39:03,701
[Thurston]
You got it, buddy.
2110
01:39:03,735 --> 01:39:06,834
[Interviewer]
Harry, how do you feel?
2111
01:39:06,867 --> 01:39:08,533
My heart ain't
gone back down yet.
2112
01:39:08,567 --> 01:39:09,534
[laughing]
2113
01:39:09,568 --> 01:39:10,701
But I'll get it
down by morning.
2114
01:39:10,735 --> 01:39:12,900
Did you think it was
gonna turn out this way?
2115
01:39:12,934 --> 01:39:15,301
The system works, don't it?
2116
01:39:15,334 --> 01:39:16,668
What do you think, Delbert?
2117
01:39:16,701 --> 01:39:18,700
I thought it might,
but I wasn't sure.
2118
01:39:18,734 --> 01:39:21,001
I'll get home
as soon as I can.
2119
01:39:21,034 --> 01:39:23,834
I love you, babe.
Goodbye.
2120
01:39:23,867 --> 01:39:25,067
Thanks.
Bye.
2121
01:39:25,101 --> 01:39:26,101
[Interviewer]
How do you feel?
2122
01:39:26,134 --> 01:39:27,101
Damn.
Sh--.
2123
01:39:27,134 --> 01:39:28,633
How do I feel?
2124
01:39:28,667 --> 01:39:29,634
I'm very, very happy.
2125
01:39:29,668 --> 01:39:30,700
What's all this
noise out here?
2126
01:39:30,734 --> 01:39:31,768
Looks like a wedding.
2127
01:39:31,801 --> 01:39:33,101
Are you kidding me,
they won't get to sleep
2128
01:39:33,134 --> 01:39:34,301
tonight and, uh...
Not in Munnsville.
2129
01:39:34,334 --> 01:39:35,401
Not in Munnsville.
2130
01:39:35,434 --> 01:39:36,900
You goin' to Disneyland now?
2131
01:39:36,934 --> 01:39:38,934
[sigh]
[laughing]
2132
01:39:38,967 --> 01:39:40,668
I listened to all
of the evidence,
2133
01:39:40,701 --> 01:39:42,634
and I could find no
solid evidence to prove
2134
01:39:42,668 --> 01:39:44,800
that even a crime
had been committed.
2135
01:39:44,834 --> 01:39:46,067
[woman]
Justice was done.
2136
01:39:46,101 --> 01:39:47,067
It was.
2137
01:39:47,101 --> 01:39:48,734
[woman]
Amen.
Amen.
2138
01:39:48,767 --> 01:39:50,067
Oh Delbert, we're happy.
2139
01:39:50,101 --> 01:39:52,534
- We're happy for you!
- Thank you all.
2140
01:39:52,568 --> 01:39:54,700
- We're happy for you.
- We're all happy for you!
2141
01:39:54,734 --> 01:39:55,934
[voices fade out]
2142
01:39:57,567 --> 01:39:59,001
[birds chirping]
2143
01:40:01,267 --> 01:40:04,433
♪♪
2144
01:40:17,135 --> 01:40:19,533
[Interviewer]
Do you think there was any
good in all of this?
2145
01:40:19,567 --> 01:40:21,367
Oh, yeah.
2146
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:23,500
Yep, I do.
2147
01:40:25,301 --> 01:40:29,567
Well, uh, the way everybody
helped Delbert,
2148
01:40:32,101 --> 01:40:34,301
in the Munnsville
area and Stockbridge
2149
01:40:34,334 --> 01:40:35,600
and different places.
2150
01:40:37,300 --> 01:40:38,467
Yeah.
2151
01:40:38,500 --> 01:40:39,900
[car honking]
2152
01:40:41,333 --> 01:40:42,567
♪♪
2153
01:40:49,334 --> 01:40:51,767
I've been out visiting and
talking to my friends.
2154
01:40:53,067 --> 01:40:54,234
You got a lot of 'em now.
2155
01:40:54,267 --> 01:40:57,234
By gosh, Stockbridge diner
was full this morning.
2156
01:40:57,267 --> 01:40:58,901
I was gonna buy some
of my friends coffee,
2157
01:40:58,935 --> 01:41:01,134
and I didn't, they wouldn't
even let me buy it.
2158
01:41:01,167 --> 01:41:03,234
Wouldn't let me
spend a nickel.
2159
01:41:03,267 --> 01:41:05,301
The lady and the man that
works at the diner up there,
2160
01:41:05,334 --> 01:41:06,501
took the money out
of their own pocket,
2161
01:41:06,534 --> 01:41:08,434
and paid for all of it.
2162
01:41:08,468 --> 01:41:11,367
Why don't you come
up this summer, Joe?
2163
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:12,401
Sure.
2164
01:41:12,434 --> 01:41:13,800
When the nice green
leaves come out.
2165
01:41:13,834 --> 01:41:16,467
You and Bruce and
Doug and Mike.
2166
01:41:17,534 --> 01:41:20,001
When the old leaves get out
and the green grass.
2167
01:41:20,034 --> 01:41:21,567
Come up and take
some pictures.
2168
01:41:27,668 --> 01:41:30,134
What do you think
of all this now, Delbert?
2169
01:41:30,167 --> 01:41:32,667
Well, I'm glad
it's over with.
2170
01:41:34,534 --> 01:41:36,368
I thank, thank
all my friends
2171
01:41:36,401 --> 01:41:39,067
for all the support
they gave me.
2172
01:41:39,101 --> 01:41:40,201
Did you ever know
you had so many friends?
2173
01:41:40,234 --> 01:41:41,533
Not so many.
2174
01:41:50,234 --> 01:41:51,934
[car honking]
2175
01:41:52,935 --> 01:41:54,401
Do you think your
life is different now?
2176
01:41:54,434 --> 01:41:57,533
Yep, gonna start
all over new again.
2177
01:41:57,567 --> 01:42:00,201
[tractor engine starts]
2178
01:42:00,234 --> 01:42:01,967
You boys will, too, now.
2179
01:42:02,001 --> 01:42:03,200
♪♪
160534
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