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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:35,955 --> 00:00:37,092 Today the United Nations released 2 00:00:37,116 --> 00:00:39,339 a report on the assassination 3 00:00:39,439 --> 00:00:42,382 of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi, 4 00:00:42,482 --> 00:00:44,465 and I must warn you this report 5 00:00:44,565 --> 00:00:45,866 is the most horrifying thing 6 00:00:45,966 --> 00:00:48,549 that I've ever had to read from this chair. 7 00:00:48,649 --> 00:00:50,031 - It says... - On Tuesday, 8 00:00:50,131 --> 00:00:52,794 Jamal Khashoggi walked into this Saudi consulate... 9 00:00:52,894 --> 00:00:54,396 ...and seemed to vanish. 10 00:00:54,496 --> 00:00:55,917 There is an anxiety 11 00:00:56,017 --> 00:00:58,080 that he could have been spirited out of the country. 12 00:00:58,180 --> 00:01:00,042 The Saudi government still offering 13 00:01:00,142 --> 00:01:01,884 conflicting narratives... 14 00:01:01,984 --> 00:01:04,527 Jamal worked directly for the royal family 15 00:01:04,627 --> 00:01:06,129 in different capacities. 16 00:01:06,229 --> 00:01:08,251 He was a loyal Saudi, 17 00:01:08,351 --> 00:01:10,614 but how he defined that loyalty 18 00:01:10,714 --> 00:01:13,217 over time changed... 19 00:01:13,317 --> 00:01:15,779 speaking Arabic 20 00:01:17,001 --> 00:01:18,502 ...as did the kingdom itself. 21 00:01:18,602 --> 00:01:21,746 Turkish officials have audio and video recordings 22 00:01:21,846 --> 00:01:23,508 that prove the journalist was... 23 00:01:23,608 --> 00:01:24,705 ...strangled as soon as he entered 24 00:01:24,729 --> 00:01:25,911 the Saudi consulate. 25 00:01:26,011 --> 00:01:27,472 ...killed during a fistfight. 26 00:01:27,572 --> 00:01:28,870 ...asphyxiated with a plastic bag. 27 00:01:28,894 --> 00:01:30,432 Khashoggi was tortured, murdered... 28 00:01:30,456 --> 00:01:34,040 Jamal enjoyed access to princely protection, 29 00:01:34,140 --> 00:01:38,244 but that protection depended upon the princes themselves 30 00:01:38,344 --> 00:01:39,686 having influence. 31 00:01:39,786 --> 00:01:41,146 He was already in danger, 32 00:01:41,188 --> 00:01:43,811 but this was exponentially more dangerous. 33 00:01:43,911 --> 00:01:47,935 The Saudi monarchy operates like the Mafia, 34 00:01:48,035 --> 00:01:49,897 and you don't cross the godfather. 35 00:01:49,997 --> 00:01:52,220 This lays out in forensic detail 36 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,383 how they planned to murder him, to dismember him. 37 00:01:55,483 --> 00:01:57,181 - ...fingers cut off... - ...joints separated... 38 00:01:57,205 --> 00:01:58,947 You could hear them laughing. 39 00:01:59,047 --> 00:02:01,270 We were always doing all this work for something bigger, 40 00:02:01,370 --> 00:02:02,872 for country, for king. 41 00:02:02,972 --> 00:02:05,274 Anybody that tells you that they know 42 00:02:05,374 --> 00:02:09,079 every aspect of Jamal's life, they are 100% lying to you. 43 00:02:09,179 --> 00:02:10,236 ...calling for the administration 44 00:02:10,260 --> 00:02:11,722 to punish Saudi Arabia. 45 00:02:11,822 --> 00:02:13,840 There's not a smoking gun; there's a smoking saw. 46 00:02:13,864 --> 00:02:15,486 This is the worst moment 47 00:02:15,586 --> 00:02:17,848 in U.S.-Saudi relations since 9/11. 48 00:02:17,948 --> 00:02:21,292 I mean, the moral of the story is... 49 00:02:21,392 --> 00:02:23,334 the moral of the story is that there is no moral. 50 00:02:23,434 --> 00:02:24,936 There is no morality. 51 00:02:25,036 --> 00:02:26,476 I mean, what is the morality of this? 52 00:02:26,518 --> 00:02:28,500 I wouldn't be able to give you an answer. 53 00:02:29,882 --> 00:02:31,223 There are reports the CIA 54 00:02:31,323 --> 00:02:32,785 now has high confidence 55 00:02:32,885 --> 00:02:35,108 the murder was ordered by the Saudi crown prince... 56 00:02:35,208 --> 00:02:37,750 The United States is condoning the murder 57 00:02:37,850 --> 00:02:39,232 of a U.S. resident... 58 00:02:39,332 --> 00:02:41,314 Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. 59 00:02:41,414 --> 00:02:42,476 They did not know... 60 00:02:42,576 --> 00:02:44,438 Why kill Jamal Khashoggi? 61 00:02:55,710 --> 00:02:57,532 Okay, go ahead. 62 00:02:57,632 --> 00:02:58,694 Okay, great. 63 00:02:58,794 --> 00:03:00,011 Are you-are you looking off camera? 64 00:03:00,035 --> 00:03:01,617 Yeah, he's looking off camera. 65 00:03:01,717 --> 00:03:03,099 Okay, thanks. Great. 66 00:03:03,199 --> 00:03:04,460 How do I describe you? 67 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,703 Like, what kind of title should I give you? 68 00:03:06,803 --> 00:03:09,786 I'm a Saudi journalist, uh, 69 00:03:09,886 --> 00:03:11,748 self-exiled in Washington. 70 00:03:11,848 --> 00:03:13,928 I write for The Washington Post. 71 00:03:13,971 --> 00:03:17,635 Okay, and why? Why did you self-exile? 72 00:03:17,735 --> 00:03:19,433 How breathtakingly fast 73 00:03:19,457 --> 00:03:23,121 you can fall out of favor. 74 00:03:23,221 --> 00:03:25,744 It is all quite shocking. 75 00:03:27,826 --> 00:03:32,291 Saudi Arabia is the only home we know or want, 76 00:03:32,391 --> 00:03:34,393 yet we are the enemy. 77 00:03:36,235 --> 00:03:39,339 How did all this change? 78 00:03:45,486 --> 00:03:48,189 I was a teenager in the 1970s 79 00:03:48,289 --> 00:03:52,353 and grew up in the markets around the Prophet's Mosque. 80 00:03:52,453 --> 00:03:55,236 As a Saudi journalist starting my career, 81 00:03:55,336 --> 00:03:59,041 I witnessed phenomenal growth and expansion. 82 00:03:59,141 --> 00:04:02,284 Scholars and the people were brimming with expectations. 83 00:04:02,384 --> 00:04:03,966 And the United States 84 00:04:04,066 --> 00:04:06,809 was our most important trading partner, 85 00:04:06,909 --> 00:04:08,771 importer of Saudi oil 86 00:04:08,871 --> 00:04:11,675 and our main source of weapons. 87 00:04:15,479 --> 00:04:17,541 The Saudi-American relationship 88 00:04:17,641 --> 00:04:20,264 started as a commercial relationship. 89 00:04:20,364 --> 00:04:25,049 The Saudis were a reservoir of global energy. 90 00:04:27,052 --> 00:04:30,956 I was a foreign service officer for 30 years. 91 00:04:31,056 --> 00:04:33,599 Basically, everybody from Jimmy Carter 92 00:04:33,699 --> 00:04:35,701 to, uh, Barack Obama. 93 00:04:36,542 --> 00:04:37,844 There's really nobody... 94 00:04:37,944 --> 00:04:39,085 And I say that perhaps 95 00:04:39,185 --> 00:04:40,847 somewhat forcefully, but it's true, 96 00:04:40,947 --> 00:04:42,489 that there is no other American 97 00:04:42,589 --> 00:04:44,591 with my level of experience. 98 00:04:45,953 --> 00:04:48,135 The American government really had no relations 99 00:04:48,235 --> 00:04:52,340 with Saudi Arabia until what's today Chevron 100 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,003 went there and began to drill for oil. 101 00:04:58,206 --> 00:05:00,148 Administration after administration, 102 00:05:00,248 --> 00:05:03,072 in the '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s, 103 00:05:03,172 --> 00:05:07,036 wanted to make sure that the government, uh, in Riyadh, 104 00:05:07,136 --> 00:05:10,200 uh, was going to be, uh, one that was closely aligned 105 00:05:10,300 --> 00:05:12,302 with the United States. 106 00:05:13,263 --> 00:05:17,207 I was working at the CIA in Saudi Arabia 107 00:05:17,307 --> 00:05:20,171 in the early 1980s. 108 00:05:20,271 --> 00:05:24,295 It was soon after King Fahd rose to the throne. 109 00:05:24,395 --> 00:05:25,897 And during that period 110 00:05:25,997 --> 00:05:27,659 there was a significant infusion 111 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:31,904 of military support to the fledging Saudi military. 112 00:05:32,004 --> 00:05:34,026 We were very concerned about making sure 113 00:05:34,126 --> 00:05:36,509 the Saudi monarchy was going to be stable. 114 00:05:38,211 --> 00:05:40,714 Saudi Arabia is divided 115 00:05:40,814 --> 00:05:42,716 into the royals and the nonroyals, 116 00:05:42,816 --> 00:05:44,277 and the royals own everything. 117 00:05:44,377 --> 00:05:47,041 You know, it's named after their family. 118 00:05:47,141 --> 00:05:51,005 The whole kingdom is Saudi Arabia, 119 00:05:51,105 --> 00:05:54,249 ruled by the sons of King Abdulaziz 120 00:05:54,349 --> 00:05:56,531 for a hundred years. 121 00:05:56,631 --> 00:05:58,533 You can get totally lost 122 00:05:58,633 --> 00:06:01,737 in the Kremlinology of the Saudi royal family. 123 00:06:03,359 --> 00:06:06,582 But it's a family, and they govern by consensus. 124 00:06:06,682 --> 00:06:09,265 There are spats and there are factions, 125 00:06:09,365 --> 00:06:11,307 but until recently, 126 00:06:11,407 --> 00:06:13,970 decisions would be made by consensus. 127 00:06:15,212 --> 00:06:18,235 And in the category of nonroyals, 128 00:06:18,335 --> 00:06:21,018 Jamal Khashoggi carried a lot of influence. 129 00:06:22,460 --> 00:06:24,762 I don't think there was any place in Saudi Arabia 130 00:06:24,862 --> 00:06:27,085 that was closed to him. 131 00:06:27,185 --> 00:06:29,247 It wasn't just that he was powerful. 132 00:06:29,347 --> 00:06:30,369 People liked him. 133 00:06:31,830 --> 00:06:34,533 Jamal had an interesting analysis 134 00:06:34,633 --> 00:06:38,017 of the problems of Saudi Arabia. 135 00:06:38,117 --> 00:06:39,859 We talked about the schizophrenia 136 00:06:39,959 --> 00:06:42,422 that so many Saudis had expressed to me. 137 00:06:44,164 --> 00:06:46,386 It's undemocratic. It's intolerant. 138 00:06:46,486 --> 00:06:49,830 It is one step below a theocracy. 139 00:06:49,930 --> 00:06:51,872 From the beginning of our relationship, 140 00:06:51,972 --> 00:06:55,436 America's had this tie to this distinctly 141 00:06:55,536 --> 00:06:57,719 non-American entity 142 00:06:57,819 --> 00:07:01,363 and has enabled it, up to this day, to survive. 143 00:07:01,463 --> 00:07:02,564 Speaking Arabic 144 00:07:02,664 --> 00:07:04,807 To call them authoritarian 145 00:07:04,907 --> 00:07:08,090 is true in an absolute sense, 146 00:07:08,190 --> 00:07:10,974 but really, most administrations 147 00:07:11,074 --> 00:07:13,216 who deal with Saudi Arabia over time 148 00:07:13,316 --> 00:07:16,740 become aware of the fact that Saudi Arabia 149 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,264 is a valuable friend, a valuable ally, 150 00:07:20,364 --> 00:07:23,027 and to throw that under the bus is a bad idea. 151 00:07:27,492 --> 00:07:30,035 Saudi Arabia was a part of the world 152 00:07:30,135 --> 00:07:32,277 that we didn't care about, except for the oil. 153 00:07:32,377 --> 00:07:34,520 They can believe what they want to believe 154 00:07:34,620 --> 00:07:36,642 as long as they keep pumping. 155 00:07:36,742 --> 00:07:39,045 But that totally changed 156 00:07:39,145 --> 00:07:41,127 when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan 157 00:07:41,227 --> 00:07:42,969 in December '79. 158 00:08:00,529 --> 00:08:03,552 Afghanistan was the major Islamic cause 159 00:08:03,652 --> 00:08:06,275 in Saudi Arabia in the '80s. 160 00:08:06,375 --> 00:08:08,478 Americans did not want to appear 161 00:08:08,578 --> 00:08:12,041 as if they are in direct war with the Soviet Union, 162 00:08:12,141 --> 00:08:14,324 so we in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan 163 00:08:14,424 --> 00:08:16,086 were doing a cover-up in the operation, 164 00:08:16,186 --> 00:08:17,447 which was an open secret. 165 00:08:17,547 --> 00:08:18,969 Everybody knew about it, 166 00:08:19,069 --> 00:08:21,692 this Saudi-American-Pakistani campaign 167 00:08:21,792 --> 00:08:24,415 to drive the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan. 168 00:08:27,478 --> 00:08:29,701 I do not deny that I had sympathy 169 00:08:29,801 --> 00:08:31,303 toward the Afghan cause, 170 00:08:31,403 --> 00:08:35,628 because, uh, I myself come out from Islamic circles, 171 00:08:35,728 --> 00:08:38,551 and I still believe it was a just cause. 172 00:08:38,651 --> 00:08:42,716 And Saudi Arabia should be appreciated for that. 173 00:08:42,816 --> 00:08:46,720 And it was a big story, which, uh, kind of, uh, made my name 174 00:08:46,820 --> 00:08:48,081 in the field of journalism. 175 00:08:48,181 --> 00:08:50,504 Chanting in Arabic 176 00:09:05,521 --> 00:09:06,818 The Arab News, 177 00:09:06,842 --> 00:09:10,226 Afghanistan, May 4, 1988. 178 00:09:10,326 --> 00:09:13,169 A report by Jamal Khashoggi. 179 00:09:15,211 --> 00:09:16,873 Muslims are one nation. 180 00:09:16,973 --> 00:09:19,436 Despite geographical barriers 181 00:09:19,536 --> 00:09:22,520 and differences in color and language, 182 00:09:22,620 --> 00:09:25,383 they consider themselves brothers. 183 00:09:27,305 --> 00:09:31,970 As many as 1,000 Arab youths are here in Afghanistan. 184 00:09:32,070 --> 00:09:35,454 They are actively involved in the war. 185 00:09:35,554 --> 00:09:39,138 Most come from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, 186 00:09:39,238 --> 00:09:41,240 Algeria, Morocco. 187 00:09:42,362 --> 00:09:44,784 The assistant to the commander 188 00:09:44,884 --> 00:09:47,828 of the northern Panjshir base is an Algerian 189 00:09:47,928 --> 00:09:50,030 named Abdullah Anas. 190 00:09:52,453 --> 00:09:54,956 So you have to cross seven mountains 191 00:09:55,056 --> 00:09:57,839 to come from Pakistan. 192 00:09:57,939 --> 00:10:00,602 Jamal Khashoggi, I remember, 193 00:10:00,702 --> 00:10:03,045 we come across with him. 194 00:10:03,145 --> 00:10:05,608 You are talking about a journey 195 00:10:05,708 --> 00:10:09,812 where, uh, could have, uh, avalanche, snow. 196 00:10:09,912 --> 00:10:12,295 You could face air strikes. 197 00:10:12,395 --> 00:10:15,699 You could, uh, face ambushes from the Soviets. 198 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:18,141 But on top of being scared, 199 00:10:18,241 --> 00:10:19,823 you are more excited 200 00:10:19,923 --> 00:10:21,785 because you feel this is a gift 201 00:10:21,885 --> 00:10:23,347 you are gifted by Allah, 202 00:10:23,447 --> 00:10:25,149 that you are part of the mujahideen, 203 00:10:25,249 --> 00:10:26,871 you are, uh, um... 204 00:10:26,971 --> 00:10:29,634 finally, you are, uh, making the history 205 00:10:29,734 --> 00:10:34,239 with these heroes and these, uh-uh, brave people. 206 00:10:34,339 --> 00:10:37,122 So all this makes you forget that threat, 207 00:10:37,222 --> 00:10:40,807 forget the-the fear, forget, uh, everything. 208 00:10:47,234 --> 00:10:50,357 Speaking Arabic 209 00:11:09,138 --> 00:11:10,920 Jamal went to Afghanistan 210 00:11:11,020 --> 00:11:13,403 to be a war correspondent. 211 00:11:13,503 --> 00:11:16,246 He did not have much of a reputation then, 212 00:11:16,346 --> 00:11:18,248 but there was this little group of Arabs 213 00:11:18,348 --> 00:11:20,531 led by Osama bin Laden, 214 00:11:20,631 --> 00:11:23,354 who was, at that point, practically unknown. 215 00:11:24,955 --> 00:11:28,900 It was a propitious moment in Jamal's career. 216 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,002 They got to be friends. 217 00:11:33,044 --> 00:11:36,148 He was somewhat blinded 218 00:11:36,248 --> 00:11:38,110 by the charisma 219 00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:41,354 and-and the-the sense of history 220 00:11:41,454 --> 00:11:43,116 that surrounded this young man. 221 00:11:46,379 --> 00:11:49,423 Speaking Arabic 222 00:12:03,558 --> 00:12:05,140 I met Osama the first time 223 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:06,942 at the end of '87, 224 00:12:07,042 --> 00:12:09,865 and that's where I took the first picture of him ever 225 00:12:09,965 --> 00:12:13,229 to be printed in any media. 226 00:12:13,329 --> 00:12:15,872 He was the leader or, as he used to be called, 227 00:12:15,972 --> 00:12:18,795 the emir of the Arab mujahideen in Afghanistan. 228 00:12:18,895 --> 00:12:20,798 Osama bin Laden 229 00:12:20,898 --> 00:12:23,601 became Saudi Arabia's first celebrity, 230 00:12:23,701 --> 00:12:26,404 a category that didn't exist in Saudi Arabia 231 00:12:26,504 --> 00:12:28,686 until that time, and I think, to some extent, 232 00:12:28,786 --> 00:12:31,389 Jamal helped him become that person. 233 00:12:38,277 --> 00:12:39,618 Jamal and I, 234 00:12:39,718 --> 00:12:41,781 I mean, I was actually an opinion page writer, 235 00:12:41,881 --> 00:12:44,464 so we would meet every once in a while, 236 00:12:44,564 --> 00:12:46,566 uh, along with other colleagues. 237 00:12:48,608 --> 00:12:51,992 Jamal was one of those important sources, 238 00:12:52,092 --> 00:12:53,554 a treasure, I would say. 239 00:12:53,654 --> 00:12:56,317 He was sitting on this crossroad of relationship 240 00:12:56,417 --> 00:12:59,320 between Saudi Arabia and the United States 241 00:12:59,420 --> 00:13:02,564 fighting the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. 242 00:13:02,664 --> 00:13:04,686 But of course, we would take a lot of what he said 243 00:13:04,786 --> 00:13:08,290 with grain of salt because he was, at the time, 244 00:13:08,390 --> 00:13:10,673 associated with the Saudi establishment. 245 00:13:13,035 --> 00:13:16,700 There weren't many Saudi or other journalists 246 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,183 who had access to bin Laden or to those groups. 247 00:13:20,283 --> 00:13:22,746 These were different times. 248 00:13:22,846 --> 00:13:24,789 The United States and Saudi Arabia 249 00:13:24,889 --> 00:13:26,751 celebrated radical Islam 250 00:13:26,851 --> 00:13:28,272 as long as radical Islam 251 00:13:28,372 --> 00:13:31,957 was directly against communism. 252 00:13:32,057 --> 00:13:34,199 I started working on Osama bin Laden 253 00:13:34,299 --> 00:13:37,443 for the National Security Division here in New York. 254 00:13:37,543 --> 00:13:39,565 I read Arabic media, 255 00:13:39,665 --> 00:13:42,488 and I knew of Jamal Khashoggi, 256 00:13:42,588 --> 00:13:45,572 and I knew about his... you know, his-his writings 257 00:13:45,672 --> 00:13:47,674 and his relationship with the Saudi government. 258 00:13:49,356 --> 00:13:51,418 The Saudis had a lot to gain 259 00:13:51,518 --> 00:13:52,900 from promoting Osama bin Laden, 260 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,583 and Jamal was part of that effort. 261 00:13:55,683 --> 00:13:58,346 Afghan jihad made Osama bin Laden. 262 00:13:58,446 --> 00:13:59,984 But the Saudis were not doing their own thing 263 00:14:00,008 --> 00:14:01,349 in Afghanistan. 264 00:14:01,449 --> 00:14:03,592 It was a part of the U.S.'s strategy. 265 00:14:03,692 --> 00:14:06,575 We gave them Stinger missiles, for heaven's sake. 266 00:14:09,778 --> 00:14:11,520 The Saudis were working very closely 267 00:14:11,620 --> 00:14:13,322 with the United States. 268 00:14:13,422 --> 00:14:15,084 They used to come and visit Ronald Reagan 269 00:14:15,184 --> 00:14:16,806 in the White House. 270 00:14:16,906 --> 00:14:20,010 We had recruitment offices here in the United States. 271 00:14:21,712 --> 00:14:23,454 This is when the Saudi interests, 272 00:14:23,554 --> 00:14:26,217 our interests, Osama bin Laden's interests 273 00:14:26,317 --> 00:14:27,538 were all the same: 274 00:14:27,638 --> 00:14:29,861 defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan. 275 00:14:34,926 --> 00:14:36,829 On behalf of the American people, 276 00:14:36,929 --> 00:14:39,792 I salute Chairman Khalis, 277 00:14:39,892 --> 00:14:41,394 his delegation, 278 00:14:41,494 --> 00:14:44,477 and the people of Afghanistan themselves. 279 00:14:44,577 --> 00:14:47,000 You are a nation of heroes. God bless you. 280 00:14:48,782 --> 00:14:50,159 During the Reagan administration, 281 00:14:50,183 --> 00:14:52,326 I was the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State 282 00:14:52,426 --> 00:14:54,528 for Intelligence, 283 00:14:54,628 --> 00:14:57,451 and we were very much focused on the war in Afghanistan 284 00:14:57,551 --> 00:14:59,293 on a day-to-day basis, uh, 285 00:14:59,393 --> 00:15:02,617 calculating how many Russian helicopters had been shot down. 286 00:15:02,717 --> 00:15:03,979 They applauded. 287 00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:05,540 The soldiers actually applauded. 288 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:06,982 We followed the progress 289 00:15:07,082 --> 00:15:08,344 of the mujahideen 290 00:15:08,444 --> 00:15:11,027 in combating the Soviet troops, 291 00:15:11,127 --> 00:15:14,030 and these were really mountain people, 292 00:15:14,130 --> 00:15:16,593 Afghan tribal leaders. 293 00:15:16,693 --> 00:15:18,795 And the only thing we really had in common with them 294 00:15:18,895 --> 00:15:21,398 was, we both wanted to defeat the Soviets. 295 00:15:21,498 --> 00:15:23,660 We had nothing else in common. 296 00:15:25,462 --> 00:15:26,644 For the U.S., 297 00:15:26,744 --> 00:15:28,926 spreading this kind of radical Islam 298 00:15:29,026 --> 00:15:30,849 was not seen in those days as a threat. 299 00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:32,010 It was just a tool. 300 00:15:32,110 --> 00:15:34,172 Thank you very much. 301 00:15:34,272 --> 00:15:37,135 No one ever really thought about the aftermath. 302 00:15:39,798 --> 00:15:41,558 The retreat of Soviet military power 303 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,222 from Afghanistan is complete. 304 00:15:43,322 --> 00:15:45,865 Fear and uncertainty were mixed with joy today 305 00:15:45,965 --> 00:15:48,148 as the commander of Soviet troops 306 00:15:48,248 --> 00:15:50,550 followed the last of his men across the border, 307 00:15:50,650 --> 00:15:53,514 leaving the communist Afghan regime alone 308 00:15:53,614 --> 00:15:55,916 to face victorious resistance fighters. 309 00:16:09,471 --> 00:16:11,734 Those days, those years, 310 00:16:11,834 --> 00:16:14,377 it's the heaven of my life. 311 00:16:14,477 --> 00:16:16,940 I will never regret those days. 312 00:16:20,003 --> 00:16:23,907 The mujahideen came to Kabul in one caravan. 313 00:16:24,007 --> 00:16:26,670 I remember-still remember seeing Jamal Khashoggi, 314 00:16:26,770 --> 00:16:28,633 "Oh, brother Abdullah." 315 00:16:28,733 --> 00:16:30,234 Jamal also was excited 316 00:16:30,334 --> 00:16:33,238 because this is the moment he was waiting for, uh, 317 00:16:33,338 --> 00:16:35,340 like the hundreds of Arabs. 318 00:16:36,461 --> 00:16:38,203 I approved of the war 319 00:16:38,303 --> 00:16:40,646 against the Soviet Union, 320 00:16:40,746 --> 00:16:45,091 but in 1990 and on, it was not the same. 321 00:16:45,191 --> 00:16:48,815 Al-Qaeda was established around that time, 322 00:16:48,915 --> 00:16:51,458 and I covered Osama bin Laden 323 00:16:51,558 --> 00:16:56,103 when he was, uh, part of, uh, a campaign 324 00:16:56,203 --> 00:16:58,466 which I agreed, 325 00:16:58,566 --> 00:17:01,729 but I saw him change. 326 00:17:03,491 --> 00:17:05,954 Afghanistan had become so ugly. 327 00:17:06,054 --> 00:17:08,477 Abdullah Anas, a friend, he said to me once 328 00:17:08,577 --> 00:17:10,639 that he did not like it very much. 329 00:17:10,739 --> 00:17:11,961 It was full of divisions, 330 00:17:12,061 --> 00:17:15,485 full of envy and poisonous ideas. 331 00:17:15,585 --> 00:17:17,587 I think he was right. 332 00:17:18,388 --> 00:17:22,853 This happiness slowly, slowly started to-to transfer 333 00:17:22,953 --> 00:17:24,294 to a nightmare, 334 00:17:24,394 --> 00:17:26,817 to a funeral, 335 00:17:26,917 --> 00:17:31,442 and then the rockets started coming from everywhere. 336 00:17:33,124 --> 00:17:35,507 So all that dream, gone. 337 00:17:35,607 --> 00:17:39,191 Replaced by civil war. 338 00:17:41,253 --> 00:17:45,118 If we had just left Afghanistan alone, 339 00:17:45,218 --> 00:17:47,320 in 20/20 hindsight, 340 00:17:47,420 --> 00:17:50,323 I think things might have been better, uh, in the long run. 341 00:17:52,866 --> 00:17:54,568 Both within CIA 342 00:17:54,668 --> 00:17:56,130 as well as in the Saudi government, 343 00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:59,133 there was a sense of accomplishment. 344 00:17:59,233 --> 00:18:02,697 There were certainly missteps that had consequences, 345 00:18:02,797 --> 00:18:04,299 uh, negative consequences, whatever, 346 00:18:04,399 --> 00:18:06,581 but, uh, that's history. 347 00:18:40,479 --> 00:18:43,482 I collapsed crying a while ago. 348 00:18:44,323 --> 00:18:48,047 Why did 15 of our young men take part in the attacks? 349 00:18:50,370 --> 00:18:52,893 What can we tell these boys' mothers? 350 00:18:54,454 --> 00:18:58,219 Will we repeat the lie that they were martyred for Islam? 351 00:19:01,182 --> 00:19:03,885 I collapsed crying a while ago, 352 00:19:03,985 --> 00:19:07,449 heartbroken for you, Osama. 353 00:19:07,549 --> 00:19:09,131 You were beautiful and brave 354 00:19:09,231 --> 00:19:13,295 in those beautiful days in Afghanistan 355 00:19:13,395 --> 00:19:16,999 before you surrendered to hatred and rage. 356 00:19:19,883 --> 00:19:22,566 What happened in the last ten years? 357 00:19:27,011 --> 00:19:29,033 We must ensure that our children 358 00:19:29,133 --> 00:19:32,797 can never be influenced by extremist ideas, 359 00:19:32,897 --> 00:19:34,959 like those 15 Saudis 360 00:19:35,059 --> 00:19:37,843 who were misled into hijacking four planes 361 00:19:37,943 --> 00:19:41,206 that fine September day, 362 00:19:41,306 --> 00:19:43,929 piloting them and us 363 00:19:44,029 --> 00:19:48,294 straight into the jaws of hell. 364 00:19:56,683 --> 00:19:58,626 A lot of us felt rage, 365 00:19:58,726 --> 00:20:00,388 rage against our own government 366 00:20:00,488 --> 00:20:02,190 that we were part of. 367 00:20:02,290 --> 00:20:04,913 Fifteen of the hijackers were Saudis, 368 00:20:05,013 --> 00:20:07,195 and the warnings were clear, 369 00:20:07,295 --> 00:20:10,199 but they were ignored at the highest levels, 370 00:20:10,299 --> 00:20:11,680 uh, repeatedly, 371 00:20:11,780 --> 00:20:12,860 and the price was enormous. 372 00:20:23,433 --> 00:20:25,976 Our next witness is Mr. Richard Clarke, 373 00:20:26,076 --> 00:20:28,098 who served as a former National Coordinator 374 00:20:28,198 --> 00:20:30,982 for Counterterrorism at the National Security Council. 375 00:20:31,082 --> 00:20:32,904 I think the Saudi government knew 376 00:20:33,004 --> 00:20:35,467 that they were at risk of the American people 377 00:20:35,567 --> 00:20:38,550 and the American Congress and the American media 378 00:20:38,650 --> 00:20:42,194 going after them, uh, for having supported, uh, al-Qaeda. 379 00:20:42,294 --> 00:20:46,879 To the loved ones of the victims of 9/11, 380 00:20:46,979 --> 00:20:49,522 to them who are here in the room, 381 00:20:49,622 --> 00:20:53,447 to those who are watching on television, 382 00:20:53,547 --> 00:20:56,890 your government failed you. 383 00:20:56,990 --> 00:21:01,776 Those entrusted with protecting you failed you. 384 00:21:01,876 --> 00:21:04,939 And I failed you. 385 00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:07,222 I worked two years for the Democratic 386 00:21:07,322 --> 00:21:09,785 Vice Chairman of the 9/11 Commission, 387 00:21:09,885 --> 00:21:12,388 and one of the areas of research that I did for him 388 00:21:12,488 --> 00:21:14,750 was Saudi Arabia, and... 389 00:21:14,850 --> 00:21:18,514 and, um, you know, 390 00:21:18,614 --> 00:21:20,917 as someone who witnessed 9/11, who's a New Yorker, 391 00:21:21,017 --> 00:21:22,439 it wasn't just the reality 392 00:21:22,539 --> 00:21:25,722 that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi 393 00:21:25,822 --> 00:21:28,445 but also that a lot of the financing for al-Qaeda 394 00:21:28,545 --> 00:21:30,928 came from wealthy Saudi individuals. 395 00:21:33,271 --> 00:21:35,774 You gotta remember that the 3,000 dead Americans 396 00:21:35,874 --> 00:21:37,135 were not the result of anything 397 00:21:37,235 --> 00:21:39,257 that the Saudi government did. 398 00:21:39,357 --> 00:21:41,860 You could argue that by supporting 399 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,782 the mujahideen in the first place, 400 00:21:43,882 --> 00:21:46,986 they had encouraged this idea of jihad, 401 00:21:47,086 --> 00:21:48,908 and I think that's-that's fair enough. 402 00:21:49,008 --> 00:21:50,008 So had we. 403 00:21:53,013 --> 00:21:55,275 I don't know if Jamal had regrets 404 00:21:55,375 --> 00:21:57,758 about his past life. 405 00:21:57,858 --> 00:22:00,020 He did evolve away from things. 406 00:22:01,902 --> 00:22:04,445 Jamal looked at bin Laden with stars in his eyes 407 00:22:04,545 --> 00:22:08,850 when he was young, and then he became disillusioned. 408 00:22:08,950 --> 00:22:12,775 He began to hate what bin Laden had become and... 409 00:22:12,875 --> 00:22:16,819 you know, and what he had done to Saudi society and to Islam. 410 00:22:16,919 --> 00:22:19,822 So he became a Saudi defender 411 00:22:19,922 --> 00:22:22,305 and a supporter of the royal family. 412 00:22:28,972 --> 00:22:31,375 Speaking Arabic 413 00:22:40,185 --> 00:22:43,228 speaking Arabic 414 00:23:08,977 --> 00:23:11,440 Jamal was a loyal Saudi. 415 00:23:11,540 --> 00:23:15,524 And I think how he defined that loyalty over time 416 00:23:15,624 --> 00:23:17,887 clearly evolved and changed, 417 00:23:17,987 --> 00:23:20,009 as did the kingdom itself. 418 00:23:20,109 --> 00:23:24,314 He may have seen it as the least bad option. 419 00:23:26,316 --> 00:23:27,938 I met Jamal when I was working 420 00:23:28,038 --> 00:23:29,820 at the Middle East Institute. 421 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,902 He was like a big teddy bear. 422 00:23:32,002 --> 00:23:33,905 There was just a genuineness. 423 00:23:34,005 --> 00:23:37,549 Always a smile, even in the worst of times. 424 00:23:37,649 --> 00:23:40,672 He, in many ways, was like a big brother to me. 425 00:23:40,772 --> 00:23:42,594 That was our relationship. 426 00:23:42,694 --> 00:23:44,196 Speaking Arabic 427 00:23:44,296 --> 00:23:47,280 At the time, he worked for the al-Faisals, 428 00:23:47,380 --> 00:23:50,003 who were seen as sort of the intelligentsia 429 00:23:50,103 --> 00:23:52,425 of the royal family. 430 00:23:53,346 --> 00:23:55,346 The Saudis were rather reluctant partners 431 00:23:55,428 --> 00:23:56,930 after 9/11, 432 00:23:57,030 --> 00:23:59,253 but Turki al-Faisal was well-known 433 00:23:59,353 --> 00:24:01,015 for believing strongly in the importance 434 00:24:01,115 --> 00:24:03,177 of a U.S.-Saudi relationship. 435 00:24:03,277 --> 00:24:06,741 He was my counterpart in Saudi Arabia in the '90s. 436 00:24:06,841 --> 00:24:08,583 King Fahd was ill and infirm 437 00:24:08,683 --> 00:24:11,146 and not in day-to-day charge of the government, 438 00:24:11,246 --> 00:24:13,589 and so Turki was determined to make sure 439 00:24:13,689 --> 00:24:15,991 that that relationship between Riyadh and Washington 440 00:24:16,091 --> 00:24:18,674 was going to not just remain strong 441 00:24:18,774 --> 00:24:20,316 but in fact be strengthened. 442 00:24:25,422 --> 00:24:27,925 There are those who would have you believe 443 00:24:28,025 --> 00:24:30,728 that the current wave of terrorism 444 00:24:30,828 --> 00:24:34,212 springs from and is or has been 445 00:24:34,312 --> 00:24:36,594 supported by Saudi Arabia. 446 00:24:38,076 --> 00:24:40,138 That is absolutely not true. 447 00:24:40,238 --> 00:24:41,980 After 9/11, Prince Turki 448 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,343 became Saudi ambassador to London. 449 00:24:44,443 --> 00:24:46,746 Jamal was somebody who had a good reputation 450 00:24:46,846 --> 00:24:49,388 in the international media, and I think Turki thought 451 00:24:49,488 --> 00:24:52,792 that Jamal's voice would be a useful one 452 00:24:52,892 --> 00:24:54,194 in trying to battle 453 00:24:54,294 --> 00:24:58,278 this very broad misimpression 454 00:24:58,378 --> 00:25:00,120 of Saudi Arabia as a whole. 455 00:25:09,871 --> 00:25:13,335 I went to London and I met with Turki, 456 00:25:13,435 --> 00:25:16,458 and I spent a lot of time with Jamal there. 457 00:25:16,558 --> 00:25:20,223 He seemed to be enjoying London. 458 00:25:20,323 --> 00:25:24,027 When you are the spokesperson for a senior prince, 459 00:25:24,127 --> 00:25:26,129 you're untouchable. 460 00:25:27,851 --> 00:25:29,673 Jamal was useful to Turki 461 00:25:29,773 --> 00:25:33,377 because he had credibility among reporters, like me. 462 00:25:35,299 --> 00:25:37,202 Jamal and I worked very closely, 463 00:25:37,302 --> 00:25:40,165 first in London and then in D.C. 464 00:25:40,265 --> 00:25:42,207 He was older than me, 465 00:25:42,307 --> 00:25:43,649 and so the joke within the embassy 466 00:25:43,749 --> 00:25:44,850 and within our friends 467 00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:47,173 was that I would call him Uncle J. 468 00:25:47,273 --> 00:25:49,775 We became quite close. 469 00:25:49,875 --> 00:25:51,537 Mornings would start at 7:30. 470 00:25:51,637 --> 00:25:54,140 We'd be the first one at the embassy. 471 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,224 After work, we would usually go have teas. 472 00:25:57,324 --> 00:26:00,668 And in a way, work never ended at the embassy. 473 00:26:00,768 --> 00:26:02,688 He was always the nice guy and I was the bad guy. 474 00:26:02,770 --> 00:26:05,473 I was always giving a hard time to the press, 475 00:26:05,573 --> 00:26:08,276 and it was crisis after crisis after crisis. 476 00:26:08,376 --> 00:26:10,238 On the contrary, the Saudis actually have done 477 00:26:10,338 --> 00:26:11,920 a lot behind the scenes, 478 00:26:12,020 --> 00:26:13,121 but more importantly, 479 00:26:13,221 --> 00:26:15,244 you talked about the American media. 480 00:26:15,344 --> 00:26:16,904 They've been the-they've been the people 481 00:26:16,946 --> 00:26:18,123 that have been raising the issue. 482 00:26:18,147 --> 00:26:20,049 The U.S. administration, the Bush administration 483 00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:21,651 has not at all. 484 00:26:21,751 --> 00:26:22,892 It was very raw. 485 00:26:22,992 --> 00:26:24,814 America was very upset. 486 00:26:24,914 --> 00:26:28,178 We spent a lot of our time defending the Saudi position 487 00:26:28,278 --> 00:26:30,260 vis-à-vis the attacks of 9/11. 488 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:32,022 The U.S. cannot go accusing people 489 00:26:32,122 --> 00:26:35,306 of financing, uh, terrorism by merely... 490 00:26:35,406 --> 00:26:40,111 by merely unfounded intelligence reports. 491 00:26:40,211 --> 00:26:42,594 You had a Bush administration 492 00:26:42,694 --> 00:26:45,918 that was still very close to Saudi Arabia. 493 00:26:46,018 --> 00:26:47,298 Somebody asked me the other day, 494 00:26:47,379 --> 00:26:48,797 was I pleased with the actions of Saudi Arabia? 495 00:26:48,821 --> 00:26:49,962 I am. 496 00:26:50,062 --> 00:26:51,484 And that was important, 497 00:26:51,584 --> 00:26:53,927 because without that, the U.S.-Saudi relationship 498 00:26:54,027 --> 00:26:55,027 could not have continued. 499 00:27:04,719 --> 00:27:07,221 It's up to us to bankrupt the terrorists 500 00:27:07,321 --> 00:27:09,664 and those who finance them so they will never again 501 00:27:09,764 --> 00:27:12,828 have the resources to commit such atrocities 502 00:27:12,928 --> 00:27:14,109 against the American people 503 00:27:14,209 --> 00:27:16,712 as we experienced on September 11th. 504 00:27:16,812 --> 00:27:18,514 The 9/11 families believe, 505 00:27:18,614 --> 00:27:20,676 and we've alleged formally in a complaint 506 00:27:20,776 --> 00:27:21,776 filed in federal court, 507 00:27:21,818 --> 00:27:23,960 that members of the Saudi government 508 00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:25,642 conspired with al-Qaeda 509 00:27:25,742 --> 00:27:27,884 for more than a decade in funding them, 510 00:27:27,984 --> 00:27:30,647 financing them, providing logistical support, 511 00:27:30,747 --> 00:27:34,211 and other means and methods to keep them going. 512 00:27:34,311 --> 00:27:36,254 What we hear from American officials, 513 00:27:36,354 --> 00:27:37,731 they are happy with the cooperation. 514 00:27:37,755 --> 00:27:39,177 They are happy with the information 515 00:27:39,277 --> 00:27:40,414 they are getting from the Saudis. 516 00:27:40,438 --> 00:27:41,896 They are getting plenty of information 517 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,543 about the case of the 15 hijackers. 518 00:27:44,643 --> 00:27:47,386 How did money move to bin Laden? 519 00:27:47,486 --> 00:27:49,588 Did it move through Saudi banks? 520 00:27:49,688 --> 00:27:51,711 Were there wealthy Saudi individuals 521 00:27:51,811 --> 00:27:52,872 who were funding him? 522 00:27:52,972 --> 00:27:54,634 There was a lot of cooperation 523 00:27:54,734 --> 00:27:56,676 that we wanted out of the Saudi government 524 00:27:56,776 --> 00:27:58,759 that we did not get. 525 00:27:58,859 --> 00:28:01,842 Our own government withheld a lot of material 526 00:28:01,942 --> 00:28:05,306 to prevent us from embarrassing the Saudis. 527 00:28:07,348 --> 00:28:09,531 There's obviously a lot of political influence 528 00:28:09,631 --> 00:28:12,214 the Saudis still enjoy in Washington, D.C., 529 00:28:12,314 --> 00:28:14,656 and they made their best efforts 530 00:28:14,756 --> 00:28:17,037 to prevent this lawsuit from ever seeing the light of day. 531 00:28:19,802 --> 00:28:21,744 I don't call Saudi Arabia an ally. 532 00:28:21,844 --> 00:28:24,427 I never called Saudi Arabia an ally. 533 00:28:24,527 --> 00:28:27,791 They always look to cover up what they don't want 534 00:28:27,891 --> 00:28:29,833 the outside world to know 535 00:28:29,933 --> 00:28:32,036 about events and activities 536 00:28:32,136 --> 00:28:33,998 and networks inside the kingdom. 537 00:28:37,061 --> 00:28:39,101 You have to remember, this was a government 538 00:28:39,183 --> 00:28:42,848 that was very sympathetic to the Saudi royal family. 539 00:28:42,948 --> 00:28:46,552 And the Bush family had ties going back for decades. 540 00:28:48,073 --> 00:28:49,535 I think the Bush administration's 541 00:28:49,635 --> 00:28:52,859 number one goal after 9/11 was Iraq. 542 00:28:52,959 --> 00:28:55,702 They sat down the first week after 9/11 543 00:28:55,802 --> 00:28:58,265 and said, "Shall we go into Afghanistan first? 544 00:28:58,365 --> 00:29:01,308 Or shall we go into Iraq first?" 545 00:29:01,408 --> 00:29:03,310 I felt like a man from Mars, 546 00:29:03,410 --> 00:29:08,076 and I said to them, "Invading Iraq after 9/11 547 00:29:08,176 --> 00:29:10,118 would be like if Franklin Roosevelt, 548 00:29:10,218 --> 00:29:12,761 after Pearl Harbor, had said, 549 00:29:12,861 --> 00:29:15,043 'Let's invade Mexico.'" 550 00:29:15,143 --> 00:29:18,287 I didn't understand how these very rational senior people 551 00:29:18,387 --> 00:29:20,449 had lost their mind, 552 00:29:20,549 --> 00:29:22,492 and I don't think the Bush administration 553 00:29:22,592 --> 00:29:25,455 could have fought the Iraq War without Saudi support. 554 00:29:28,358 --> 00:29:29,619 I think Saudi Arabia 555 00:29:29,719 --> 00:29:32,142 became even more indispensable 556 00:29:32,242 --> 00:29:34,625 for the United States. 557 00:29:34,725 --> 00:29:36,908 Jamal Khashoggi and Turki al-Faisal, 558 00:29:37,008 --> 00:29:41,473 they were champions of Saudi-American relations. 559 00:29:41,573 --> 00:29:44,316 Never defended it. Never justified it. 560 00:29:44,416 --> 00:29:46,638 They were champions of it. 561 00:29:46,738 --> 00:29:49,241 Jamal was the only Arab I met 562 00:29:49,341 --> 00:29:52,445 who was a supporter of the war. 563 00:29:52,545 --> 00:29:55,929 By the time the U.S. invaded Iraq, 564 00:29:56,029 --> 00:29:57,130 he struck me as a neocon. 565 00:29:57,230 --> 00:29:58,692 He was all in favor of it. 566 00:29:58,792 --> 00:30:00,794 Speaking Arabic 567 00:30:12,807 --> 00:30:14,750 He was nationalistic. 568 00:30:14,850 --> 00:30:16,992 He felt very much involved in it, 569 00:30:17,092 --> 00:30:19,835 and so, you know, it's times change, 570 00:30:19,935 --> 00:30:23,539 but a lot of people don't know that side of Jamal. 571 00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:26,703 Jamal took it very personally. 572 00:30:28,064 --> 00:30:30,167 Some of the papers, including The New York Times, 573 00:30:30,267 --> 00:30:31,889 insist on calling him a dissident. 574 00:30:31,989 --> 00:30:33,771 Jamal was... 575 00:30:33,871 --> 00:30:34,928 You've arrested reformers 576 00:30:34,952 --> 00:30:36,293 by the hundreds and the thousands. 577 00:30:36,393 --> 00:30:37,611 No, no, no, reformers, they were never 578 00:30:37,635 --> 00:30:38,936 arrested by the, uh... 579 00:30:39,036 --> 00:30:41,019 Peaceful demonstrators who went into the street, 580 00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:44,182 there were many hundreds of them arrested in Riyadh... 581 00:30:44,282 --> 00:30:46,184 The demonstrators... those demonstrators 582 00:30:46,284 --> 00:30:49,828 were ans-they were answering a call of an al-Qaeda activist. 583 00:30:49,928 --> 00:30:52,351 They were answering the call of Sa'ad Al-Faqih. 584 00:30:52,451 --> 00:30:54,193 They were not peaceful demonstrators. 585 00:30:54,293 --> 00:30:56,436 They were holding Korans above their head, 586 00:30:56,536 --> 00:30:57,833 and they were peaceful demonstrators. 587 00:30:57,857 --> 00:30:59,137 - They were unarmed. - But again, 588 00:30:59,179 --> 00:31:01,081 there were no shooting; they were released. 589 00:31:01,181 --> 00:31:02,402 There was shooting. 590 00:31:02,502 --> 00:31:04,244 They shot rubber bullets over their heads. 591 00:31:04,344 --> 00:31:06,367 The-uh, nobody was killed. 592 00:31:06,467 --> 00:31:08,729 Uh, they were all released. 593 00:31:08,829 --> 00:31:11,493 We don't have this situation where we... 594 00:31:11,593 --> 00:31:14,576 where people demonstrate in the streets and chaos. 595 00:31:14,676 --> 00:31:16,378 No, we don't have any-any of that. 596 00:31:16,478 --> 00:31:17,598 Saudi Arabia is very stable. 597 00:31:27,050 --> 00:31:29,432 A country as proud as Saudi Arabia 598 00:31:29,532 --> 00:31:32,596 doesn't take easily to outside advice. 599 00:31:32,696 --> 00:31:34,959 Yet just because 15 Saudis 600 00:31:35,059 --> 00:31:38,362 committed the biggest terrorist atrocity in history, 601 00:31:38,462 --> 00:31:40,685 some Americans are now calling 602 00:31:40,785 --> 00:31:43,008 for the imposition of a foreign culture 603 00:31:43,108 --> 00:31:45,530 on our Muslim society. 604 00:31:45,630 --> 00:31:48,353 That is why we have to fight back. 605 00:31:49,795 --> 00:31:52,178 Last November, Prince Turki al-Faisal 606 00:31:52,278 --> 00:31:54,460 won a legal battle against the families 607 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,663 of September 11th victims. 608 00:31:56,763 --> 00:31:58,765 This was good news. 609 00:32:00,046 --> 00:32:01,108 The Bush administration 610 00:32:01,208 --> 00:32:03,851 still considers Saudi Arabia a friend. 611 00:32:05,893 --> 00:32:08,936 But we do not know what the future holds. 612 00:32:10,778 --> 00:32:14,522 Jamal's 30 years in Arab media 613 00:32:14,622 --> 00:32:17,686 reflect Saudi relations with the United States 614 00:32:17,786 --> 00:32:20,449 and Arab public opinion. 615 00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:24,694 He championed the cause for American-Saudi cooperation 616 00:32:24,794 --> 00:32:27,937 against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. 617 00:32:28,037 --> 00:32:30,540 After 9/11, they worked with the United States 618 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,462 against Saddam Hussein of Iraq 619 00:32:32,562 --> 00:32:35,506 and supported the U.S. war on terror. 620 00:32:35,606 --> 00:32:38,149 At each and every junction 621 00:32:38,249 --> 00:32:40,992 in modern Saudi history 622 00:32:41,092 --> 00:32:44,276 and modern U.S.-Saudi relations, 623 00:32:44,376 --> 00:32:46,999 Jamal was there at that crossroad, 624 00:32:47,099 --> 00:32:51,063 either reporting, explaining, or spinning. 625 00:32:52,064 --> 00:32:55,588 But he was taken by surprise by the Arab Spring. 626 00:32:57,870 --> 00:33:00,914 Chanting in Arabic 627 00:33:08,242 --> 00:33:11,706 The Arab Spring was indeed a revolution 628 00:33:11,806 --> 00:33:14,389 that shook Saudi Arabia. 629 00:33:14,489 --> 00:33:17,192 It was like an earthquake. 630 00:33:17,292 --> 00:33:20,596 In the past, you could always count on the United States. 631 00:33:20,696 --> 00:33:23,279 But when it came to the Arab Spring, 632 00:33:23,379 --> 00:33:25,762 they could not find help in Washington. 633 00:33:25,862 --> 00:33:27,323 Chanting in Arabic 634 00:33:27,423 --> 00:33:28,885 That was unprecedented, 635 00:33:28,985 --> 00:33:31,768 that was unthinkable, and it was so sudden. 636 00:33:31,868 --> 00:33:33,870 Chanting in Arabic 637 00:33:36,754 --> 00:33:39,477 speaking Arabic 638 00:33:57,897 --> 00:33:59,599 speaking Arabic 639 00:33:59,699 --> 00:34:02,322 It felt like coming home. 640 00:34:02,422 --> 00:34:04,445 Seeing young Arabs 641 00:34:04,545 --> 00:34:06,607 take to the streets 642 00:34:06,707 --> 00:34:09,410 to realize that dream 643 00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:11,332 for self-determination, 644 00:34:11,432 --> 00:34:14,095 for liberty, freedom, 645 00:34:14,195 --> 00:34:16,458 bread, social justice 646 00:34:16,558 --> 00:34:18,540 was my dream coming true, 647 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,642 and I couldn't not take part in it. 648 00:34:47,833 --> 00:34:49,695 Chanting in Arabic 649 00:34:56,082 --> 00:34:57,864 When the Arab Spring kicked off, 650 00:34:57,964 --> 00:35:00,907 that was kind of our first open disagreement. 651 00:35:01,007 --> 00:35:02,989 He was for what happened in other countries, 652 00:35:03,089 --> 00:35:04,791 and I was against it. 653 00:35:04,891 --> 00:35:06,794 It called it "the so-called Arab Spring," 654 00:35:06,894 --> 00:35:09,397 because what does that mean for other countries 655 00:35:09,497 --> 00:35:12,240 of which Saudi Arabia is an ally and a supporter? 656 00:35:17,425 --> 00:35:19,025 At the time of the Arab Spring, 657 00:35:19,107 --> 00:35:23,412 King Abdullah was viewed as being somewhat skeptical 658 00:35:23,512 --> 00:35:26,335 of that U.S.-Saudi relationship. 659 00:35:26,435 --> 00:35:29,379 He didn't support everything that the United States did 660 00:35:29,479 --> 00:35:31,177 in the region, and I think there were people 661 00:35:31,201 --> 00:35:33,023 who came in with the Obama administration 662 00:35:33,123 --> 00:35:35,706 who had, oh, I think, a rather jaundiced view, 663 00:35:35,806 --> 00:35:36,907 uh, of Saudi Arabia. 664 00:35:37,007 --> 00:35:38,869 There were problems with the fact 665 00:35:38,969 --> 00:35:40,351 that these governments 666 00:35:40,451 --> 00:35:42,914 kind of couldn't keep a lid on things anymore. 667 00:35:43,014 --> 00:35:46,197 I was in a group of advisors 668 00:35:46,297 --> 00:35:48,880 who were urging President Obama 669 00:35:48,980 --> 00:35:52,264 to try to support a transition to democracy. 670 00:35:53,666 --> 00:35:55,247 King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia 671 00:35:55,347 --> 00:35:57,690 wanted to talk to Obama, 672 00:35:57,790 --> 00:35:59,532 and I remember in that phone call 673 00:35:59,632 --> 00:36:03,256 King Abdullah was absolutely livid about this, 674 00:36:03,356 --> 00:36:06,340 and his basic line was, 675 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,422 everybody in that square 676 00:36:08,522 --> 00:36:11,085 is either a terrorist or an Iranian agent. 677 00:36:12,286 --> 00:36:15,670 Which was just patently not true. 678 00:36:15,770 --> 00:36:18,714 And President Obama called Mubarak and told him, 679 00:36:18,814 --> 00:36:20,151 "Look, I think you need to step down. 680 00:36:20,175 --> 00:36:21,833 I don't think these protests are going to stop." 681 00:36:21,857 --> 00:36:24,160 shouting in Arabic 682 00:36:24,260 --> 00:36:27,043 We were at the presidential palace. 683 00:36:27,143 --> 00:36:29,846 We told the army generals 684 00:36:29,946 --> 00:36:33,089 that after this prayer, 685 00:36:33,189 --> 00:36:37,254 we were going to break through and storm the palace. 686 00:36:37,354 --> 00:36:39,114 We said, "If you open fire on the front line, 687 00:36:39,196 --> 00:36:40,698 there's 50,000 people behind us. 688 00:36:40,798 --> 00:36:42,580 We're getting in regardless." 689 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,063 I remember crying my eyes out because I felt like 690 00:36:45,163 --> 00:36:46,625 this could be my last prayer, 691 00:36:46,725 --> 00:36:49,307 that if they opened fire, you know, this was worth it. 692 00:36:52,571 --> 00:36:54,994 We hear the announcement on the P.A. 693 00:36:55,094 --> 00:36:57,857 speaking Arabic 694 00:37:16,638 --> 00:37:19,901 chanting in Arabic 695 00:37:38,782 --> 00:37:42,086 It was the best of Egypt. 696 00:37:42,186 --> 00:37:44,889 And it was the best of the Arab world at that time, 697 00:37:44,989 --> 00:37:47,452 best 18 days of our generation. 698 00:37:51,556 --> 00:37:53,979 It was... 699 00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:55,381 one hell of a time. 700 00:38:04,611 --> 00:38:07,554 Egyptians did not need anyone 701 00:38:07,654 --> 00:38:10,157 to teach them how to be free. 702 00:38:10,257 --> 00:38:13,441 I saw them take to it 703 00:38:13,541 --> 00:38:16,364 like a human instinct. 704 00:38:16,464 --> 00:38:19,047 At the time, I was living a new love story 705 00:38:19,147 --> 00:38:21,290 and a new marriage. 706 00:38:21,390 --> 00:38:26,095 Egypt was also living its love story with freedom. 707 00:38:26,195 --> 00:38:30,460 It was the happiest time for both of us. 708 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,742 Jamal was a big romantic. 709 00:38:32,842 --> 00:38:35,545 In every sense, a romantic. 710 00:38:35,645 --> 00:38:37,808 You get swept up in it. 711 00:38:39,329 --> 00:38:42,874 Jamal loved strong, intelligent women, 712 00:38:42,974 --> 00:38:45,837 and at the start of the Arab Spring, 713 00:38:45,937 --> 00:38:50,001 he'd married a really wonderful woman, Dr. Alaa. 714 00:38:53,425 --> 00:38:58,090 And there is a certain romance to revolutions, 715 00:38:58,190 --> 00:39:01,895 to the idea that you can throw off 716 00:39:01,995 --> 00:39:04,017 the restrictions 717 00:39:04,117 --> 00:39:07,221 that seemed impossible to shake 718 00:39:07,321 --> 00:39:11,025 and that you could think and discuss ideas 719 00:39:11,125 --> 00:39:14,429 that were forbidden before, 720 00:39:14,529 --> 00:39:18,753 and that... that oxygen, I think, is intoxicating. 721 00:39:22,457 --> 00:39:24,960 Jamal was very open about how happy he was 722 00:39:25,060 --> 00:39:27,103 that Mubarak had gone down. 723 00:39:28,224 --> 00:39:30,126 But he made a lot of enemies 724 00:39:30,226 --> 00:39:32,929 because of his writing and his tweets, 725 00:39:33,029 --> 00:39:34,931 and I kept telling Jamal, "Stop. 726 00:39:35,031 --> 00:39:36,293 You know, stop." 727 00:39:36,393 --> 00:39:38,295 We had a lot of arguments about it. 728 00:39:38,395 --> 00:39:40,217 King Abdullah kept getting angry at him, 729 00:39:40,317 --> 00:39:42,139 told him, you know, "What you're writing, 730 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,302 you know, relax." 731 00:39:44,402 --> 00:39:47,465 There was a sense of a lot of worry. 732 00:39:47,565 --> 00:39:51,149 I would say the relationship Saudi Arabia had with America 733 00:39:51,249 --> 00:39:53,392 started being very testy. 734 00:39:53,492 --> 00:39:55,554 The Saudis believed, 735 00:39:55,654 --> 00:39:58,998 uh, that we let Mubarak down, 736 00:39:59,098 --> 00:40:00,600 um, that he had been 737 00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:02,442 a very loyal ally for 30 years, 738 00:40:02,542 --> 00:40:05,325 that he had done what we asked him to do many times, 739 00:40:05,425 --> 00:40:08,088 and that at the first sign of trouble, 740 00:40:08,188 --> 00:40:09,610 uh, we threw him under the bus. 741 00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:13,094 Chanting in Arabic 742 00:40:13,194 --> 00:40:16,537 Saudi Arabia was paying people to protest. 743 00:40:16,637 --> 00:40:19,541 Chanting in Arabic 744 00:40:19,641 --> 00:40:21,423 And ultimately, this results 745 00:40:21,523 --> 00:40:23,465 in the Egyptian military overthrowing 746 00:40:23,565 --> 00:40:25,307 a democratically elected government 747 00:40:25,407 --> 00:40:26,989 with the backing of Saudi Arabia. 748 00:40:27,089 --> 00:40:28,511 They funded it. 749 00:40:28,611 --> 00:40:31,354 They drove the media strategy behind it. 750 00:40:31,454 --> 00:40:34,157 Saudi Arabia and others were concerned 751 00:40:34,257 --> 00:40:36,520 that the Arab Spring was going to, 752 00:40:36,620 --> 00:40:37,761 uh, go out of control. 753 00:40:37,861 --> 00:40:39,323 Nobody wanted that. 754 00:40:39,423 --> 00:40:41,361 United States didn't want that. Saudi Arabia didn't want that. 755 00:40:41,385 --> 00:40:42,727 It was reported that Egypt's 756 00:40:42,827 --> 00:40:45,369 first democratically elected president 757 00:40:45,469 --> 00:40:47,572 was no longer allowed to leave the country 758 00:40:47,672 --> 00:40:49,294 and that the army was deploying 759 00:40:49,394 --> 00:40:51,576 not just here but on the streets. 760 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:56,862 President Obama, at this point, 761 00:40:56,962 --> 00:40:59,185 is kind of worn down by this, 762 00:40:59,285 --> 00:41:02,148 and we never followed through on a policy 763 00:41:02,248 --> 00:41:04,250 that really prioritized democracy promotion. 764 00:41:05,532 --> 00:41:07,314 Not only was that kind of the death knell 765 00:41:07,414 --> 00:41:10,878 of the Arab Spring, but it was also kind of, 766 00:41:10,978 --> 00:41:13,000 to me, like a pretty cynical, 767 00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:15,203 you know, hypocritical thing. 768 00:41:15,303 --> 00:41:16,524 No, it's not cynical. 769 00:41:16,624 --> 00:41:18,006 See, these are naive... I don't... 770 00:41:18,106 --> 00:41:19,426 I mean, I hate to tell Mr. Rhodes, 771 00:41:19,507 --> 00:41:21,325 but these are-these are- these are superficial, naive, 772 00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:24,613 and ra-rather fatuous arguments. 773 00:41:24,713 --> 00:41:25,814 Uh, they may sell books. 774 00:41:25,914 --> 00:41:27,296 I hope he does sell a lot of books, 775 00:41:27,396 --> 00:41:29,178 but, um... 776 00:41:29,278 --> 00:41:31,861 ...those-those... you know, the role of the Saudis 777 00:41:31,961 --> 00:41:33,143 in global oil markets, 778 00:41:33,243 --> 00:41:35,185 the role of Saudi Arabia in countering, 779 00:41:35,285 --> 00:41:37,267 uh, Islamic terrorism, 780 00:41:37,367 --> 00:41:40,030 you know, do you really want a Saudi Arabia 781 00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:43,033 that looks like, um, you know, 782 00:41:43,133 --> 00:41:45,116 what's happening in Beirut or Syria 783 00:41:45,216 --> 00:41:47,118 or Baghdad or Tehran today? 784 00:41:47,218 --> 00:41:48,600 Is that really what you want? 785 00:41:51,583 --> 00:41:54,606 When the military coup happened, 786 00:41:54,706 --> 00:41:56,809 there were tens of thousands of people 787 00:41:56,909 --> 00:41:59,332 that came out to protest. 788 00:41:59,432 --> 00:42:00,773 Chanting in Arabic 789 00:42:00,873 --> 00:42:02,775 The military and security forces 790 00:42:02,875 --> 00:42:05,098 surrounded Rabaa Square. 791 00:42:05,198 --> 00:42:07,421 Chanting in Arabic 792 00:42:07,521 --> 00:42:10,784 They were coming in like it was an armed group 793 00:42:10,884 --> 00:42:15,149 that they were coming to basically ambush. 794 00:42:38,595 --> 00:42:40,257 There were people falling, 795 00:42:40,357 --> 00:42:41,538 people by your side. 796 00:42:41,638 --> 00:42:42,998 A bullet could hit you at any time. 797 00:42:45,603 --> 00:42:48,246 Shots fired from every direction. 798 00:42:50,688 --> 00:42:52,310 Cars exploding. 799 00:42:53,772 --> 00:42:55,834 And then I get hit. 800 00:42:55,934 --> 00:42:57,356 People start rushing at me, 801 00:42:57,456 --> 00:43:01,200 and they carry me into a makeshift hospital. 802 00:43:01,300 --> 00:43:04,204 Everybody there was dying. 803 00:43:04,304 --> 00:43:07,227 Speaking Arabic 804 00:43:09,429 --> 00:43:11,007 There was this, like, distinct smell 805 00:43:11,031 --> 00:43:12,893 of gunpowder and blood. 806 00:43:15,596 --> 00:43:17,699 I remember just laying there. 807 00:43:17,799 --> 00:43:19,420 I closed my eyes. 808 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,705 And that moment, I... 809 00:43:23,805 --> 00:43:26,228 I felt so helpless, 810 00:43:26,328 --> 00:43:30,713 so hopeless, I just... 811 00:43:32,975 --> 00:43:36,239 Rabaa was the day that the Arab Spring... 812 00:43:36,339 --> 00:43:38,341 that was the nail in the coffin. 813 00:43:40,664 --> 00:43:42,406 It was almost certainly 814 00:43:42,506 --> 00:43:44,528 the single bloodiest day of events 815 00:43:44,628 --> 00:43:47,011 since the start of the Arab Spring. 816 00:43:47,111 --> 00:43:50,735 Egyptian officials say that 525 people were killed, 817 00:43:50,835 --> 00:43:52,898 though opponents say the true number 818 00:43:52,998 --> 00:43:55,300 could be four times as many. 819 00:44:07,093 --> 00:44:10,657 There was the temptation to support the revolutions. 820 00:44:12,419 --> 00:44:15,603 I believe it is the right thing to do. 821 00:44:15,703 --> 00:44:18,286 But in my writing, I do my best 822 00:44:18,386 --> 00:44:21,289 to just be a journalist 823 00:44:21,389 --> 00:44:24,312 and not become a revolutionary. 824 00:44:26,835 --> 00:44:28,737 The Arab Spring was crushed. 825 00:44:28,837 --> 00:44:30,940 It was destroyed. 826 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,983 And what the Arab Spring stood for in large part 827 00:44:34,083 --> 00:44:35,945 was freedom of expression, 828 00:44:36,045 --> 00:44:40,430 and that had a profound influence on Jamal's thinking. 829 00:44:40,530 --> 00:44:42,913 Suddenly he saw that freedom of expression 830 00:44:43,013 --> 00:44:45,556 was the key to reform in the Arab world 831 00:44:45,656 --> 00:44:47,959 and especially in Saudi Arabia. 832 00:44:49,620 --> 00:44:52,804 That's where Al-Arab came from. 833 00:44:52,904 --> 00:44:56,048 Jamal saw the opportunity to create a middle road, 834 00:44:56,148 --> 00:44:57,609 you know, his own channel, 835 00:44:57,709 --> 00:44:59,812 free of government censorship, 836 00:44:59,912 --> 00:45:03,256 but not attacking the royal family all the time, 837 00:45:03,356 --> 00:45:05,979 and he was aided by one particular 838 00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:07,500 royal family member, 839 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,824 Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal. 840 00:45:10,924 --> 00:45:13,868 And at first, it seemed like there might be room 841 00:45:13,968 --> 00:45:16,991 for an independent voice in the kingdom. 842 00:45:17,091 --> 00:45:19,974 Speaking Arabic 843 00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:36,933 Jamal always had a very good relationship 844 00:45:37,033 --> 00:45:38,695 with Prince Waleed. 845 00:45:38,795 --> 00:45:42,179 You know, the infamous investor, Mr. Citibank, 846 00:45:42,279 --> 00:45:43,861 that made a lot of money. 847 00:45:43,961 --> 00:45:46,464 So, you know, he's a very well-known individual 848 00:45:46,564 --> 00:45:48,065 on the international scene 849 00:45:48,165 --> 00:45:50,548 and has always been an outspoken member 850 00:45:50,648 --> 00:45:52,510 of the Saudi royal family, 851 00:45:52,610 --> 00:45:54,570 but at the same time, again, very much like Jamal, 852 00:45:54,653 --> 00:45:57,636 always very much within the construct 853 00:45:57,736 --> 00:45:59,438 of the loyalty to the king 854 00:45:59,538 --> 00:46:00,920 and to his country and so forth. 855 00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:02,962 Speaking Arabic 856 00:46:03,062 --> 00:46:06,085 Jamal was so hopeful about Al-Arab. 857 00:46:06,185 --> 00:46:08,889 He was trying to hire the best and brightest. 858 00:46:08,989 --> 00:46:13,093 Anyone who worked in Arab media knew of him, 859 00:46:13,193 --> 00:46:15,136 and even if you didn't agree 860 00:46:15,236 --> 00:46:17,018 with his positions over time, 861 00:46:17,118 --> 00:46:18,940 it's hard not to admire Jamal. 862 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,902 Stand by, camera one. Stand by, sound. 863 00:46:21,002 --> 00:46:22,023 Cue. 864 00:46:22,123 --> 00:46:23,345 Al-Arab news channel 865 00:46:23,445 --> 00:46:25,627 was gonna have the best of everything. 866 00:46:25,727 --> 00:46:28,390 Even the owner, Prince Waleed bin Talal, 867 00:46:28,490 --> 00:46:30,593 even he was aiming to be, 868 00:46:30,693 --> 00:46:32,515 if not number one, number two 869 00:46:32,615 --> 00:46:34,237 as-as-as-as a start. 870 00:46:34,337 --> 00:46:36,760 Jamal was very confident 871 00:46:36,860 --> 00:46:38,762 of the vision of the station 872 00:46:38,862 --> 00:46:42,446 and that he had the backing of the royal family. 873 00:46:42,546 --> 00:46:46,090 We were all ready to launch on the first of February, 2015, 874 00:46:46,190 --> 00:46:47,892 and everybody had that energy. 875 00:46:47,992 --> 00:46:49,894 You know, when the... when you launch a station, 876 00:46:49,994 --> 00:46:52,036 there's always this... an energy that comes with it. 877 00:46:53,638 --> 00:46:57,062 For Jamal, there was so much hope. 878 00:46:57,162 --> 00:47:00,266 Al-Arab was his last great passion project. 879 00:47:00,366 --> 00:47:02,268 Speaking Arabic 880 00:47:02,368 --> 00:47:04,550 In six, five, 881 00:47:04,650 --> 00:47:07,554 four, three, two, one. 882 00:47:07,654 --> 00:47:08,755 Go,. 883 00:47:13,220 --> 00:47:17,565 Speaking Arabic 884 00:47:23,231 --> 00:47:26,455 I turned around, and I said, "Jamal, we did it. 885 00:47:26,555 --> 00:47:28,557 You can relax now." 886 00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:32,221 speaking Arabic 887 00:47:32,321 --> 00:47:35,665 I had my show at eleven o'clock at night. 888 00:47:35,765 --> 00:47:38,148 I went back home, thinking, "Okay, 889 00:47:38,248 --> 00:47:40,226 tomorrow we have to get up; tomorrow's the next day. 890 00:47:40,250 --> 00:47:42,332 We have to start again." 891 00:47:43,093 --> 00:47:45,676 I had my phone ringing. 892 00:47:45,776 --> 00:47:48,920 I look at the phone, I said, "Shit." 893 00:47:49,020 --> 00:47:51,002 Gentlemen came to the station, 894 00:47:51,102 --> 00:47:53,324 to the master control room, and they said 895 00:47:53,424 --> 00:47:55,767 we need to stop the broadcast. 896 00:47:55,867 --> 00:47:59,091 They are really asking us to shut down. 897 00:47:59,191 --> 00:48:01,574 We can't have anything on the air. 898 00:48:01,674 --> 00:48:04,637 They ask to broadcast just black. 899 00:48:08,721 --> 00:48:11,084 And, uh, that was it. 900 00:48:13,727 --> 00:48:15,225 Just three days before the shutdown, 901 00:48:15,249 --> 00:48:17,551 a new king took the throne. 902 00:48:17,651 --> 00:48:20,454 Was that transition the issue? 903 00:48:24,419 --> 00:48:26,041 Um... 904 00:48:26,141 --> 00:48:28,884 yep. 905 00:48:28,984 --> 00:48:31,367 That-that was it. That was it. 906 00:48:46,684 --> 00:48:48,145 King Abdullah dies, 907 00:48:48,245 --> 00:48:52,750 and the new king is Salman, and no one really expects 908 00:48:52,850 --> 00:48:55,914 there to be any profound change. 909 00:48:56,014 --> 00:48:57,916 But within the first 60 days, 910 00:48:58,016 --> 00:49:00,399 things began to change pretty quickly. 911 00:49:00,499 --> 00:49:02,081 The king, first thing he did was, 912 00:49:02,181 --> 00:49:04,564 he made his son the defense minister, 913 00:49:04,664 --> 00:49:07,206 and he began to pretty radically change 914 00:49:07,306 --> 00:49:09,589 the way the Saudi government was structured. 915 00:49:10,270 --> 00:49:12,933 King Salman wanted to cut the wings 916 00:49:13,033 --> 00:49:15,376 of anyone else in the royal family 917 00:49:15,476 --> 00:49:19,100 and keep everything inside his own immediate family, 918 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,262 especially his son. 919 00:49:21,362 --> 00:49:24,786 Mohammed bin Salman was not even 30 years old. 920 00:49:24,886 --> 00:49:27,429 He was basically an unknown commodity, 921 00:49:27,529 --> 00:49:29,071 so there was something fishy 922 00:49:29,171 --> 00:49:31,073 about the whole thing from the start. 923 00:49:31,173 --> 00:49:32,955 Chanting in Arabic 924 00:49:33,055 --> 00:49:34,957 Many people, myself included, 925 00:49:35,057 --> 00:49:37,400 recognized that this was potentially 926 00:49:37,500 --> 00:49:40,283 a very dangerous and difficult transition. 927 00:49:42,185 --> 00:49:43,847 I tend to think that Saudi Arabia 928 00:49:43,947 --> 00:49:45,769 is more stable most of the time 929 00:49:45,869 --> 00:49:47,812 than most people do, 930 00:49:47,912 --> 00:49:49,894 but even I certainly recognized 931 00:49:49,994 --> 00:49:52,757 that this was a real potential problem. 932 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,720 You had this sense of foreboding 933 00:49:56,801 --> 00:49:58,263 of, what's gonna happen here? 934 00:49:58,363 --> 00:49:59,985 We were concerned. 935 00:50:15,262 --> 00:50:17,725 King Salman's first act of censorship 936 00:50:17,825 --> 00:50:19,767 was shutting down Al-Arab. 937 00:50:19,867 --> 00:50:22,210 And Jamal, I think, 938 00:50:22,310 --> 00:50:24,292 was caught short by it. 939 00:50:24,392 --> 00:50:27,175 And it's notable that the enforcer 940 00:50:27,275 --> 00:50:29,858 of this first act of censorship 941 00:50:29,958 --> 00:50:32,381 was a man named Saud al-Qahtani. 942 00:50:39,769 --> 00:50:41,587 Saud al-Qahtani came into the royal court 943 00:50:41,611 --> 00:50:43,193 as a media secretary, 944 00:50:43,293 --> 00:50:46,036 and then his relationship evolved there 945 00:50:46,136 --> 00:50:48,319 and he basically starting attacking, 946 00:50:48,419 --> 00:50:51,402 organizing campaigns against columnists, journalists, 947 00:50:51,502 --> 00:50:53,364 what have you. 948 00:50:53,464 --> 00:50:56,047 But more will come out on Saud al-Qahtani's role 949 00:50:56,147 --> 00:50:58,290 in the future, because he ended up being 950 00:50:58,390 --> 00:51:00,732 quite influential. 951 00:51:00,832 --> 00:51:02,334 Al-Qahtani would tell the editors 952 00:51:02,434 --> 00:51:04,897 what they can write and what they cannot write, 953 00:51:04,997 --> 00:51:06,699 telling them, "Put this on the front page. 954 00:51:06,799 --> 00:51:08,141 Put this on the front," and Jamal, 955 00:51:08,241 --> 00:51:10,704 he was very uncomfortable with it. 956 00:51:10,804 --> 00:51:12,065 I mean, you're a journalist. 957 00:51:12,165 --> 00:51:13,503 Imagine if every two minutes, someone's sending you 958 00:51:13,527 --> 00:51:15,265 a message from the White House telling you, you know, 959 00:51:15,289 --> 00:51:16,550 "Don't write this. Write this. 960 00:51:16,650 --> 00:51:18,028 Put this on the front. You can't take this"... 961 00:51:18,052 --> 00:51:20,054 I mean, this is what was happening. 962 00:51:21,175 --> 00:51:23,918 It was 2016, and MBS had really started 963 00:51:24,018 --> 00:51:26,361 getting his hands onto the press. 964 00:51:26,461 --> 00:51:29,044 And there was a group in Yemen 965 00:51:29,144 --> 00:51:32,087 who have always been antagonists of Saudi Arabia. 966 00:51:32,187 --> 00:51:34,930 And so MBS, as defense minister, 967 00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:37,974 basically decides to go into Yemen 968 00:51:38,074 --> 00:51:40,176 and take these-these guys on. 969 00:51:40,276 --> 00:51:43,159 Speaking Arabic 970 00:51:47,444 --> 00:51:49,707 The Saudi invasion of Yemen 971 00:51:49,807 --> 00:51:52,190 would never happen without MBS. 972 00:51:52,290 --> 00:51:55,273 MBS was using the invasion of Yemen 973 00:51:55,373 --> 00:51:57,716 as a means of consolidating power, 974 00:51:57,816 --> 00:52:00,359 as a means of getting the armed forces 975 00:52:00,459 --> 00:52:01,480 really under him. 976 00:52:03,342 --> 00:52:05,124 To Yemen now, breaking overnight, 977 00:52:05,224 --> 00:52:07,286 Yemen erupting, and Saudi Arabia, 978 00:52:07,386 --> 00:52:09,329 backed by a ten-nation coalition, 979 00:52:09,429 --> 00:52:10,770 launching air strikes. 980 00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:12,132 The U.S. is providing 981 00:52:12,232 --> 00:52:13,974 logistical and intelligence support. 982 00:52:17,558 --> 00:52:19,820 The war in Yemen was essential 983 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,583 to the rise of Mohammed bin Salman. 984 00:52:22,683 --> 00:52:26,067 And they thought that they can go to Yemen 985 00:52:26,167 --> 00:52:28,950 couple of month, finish the war, 986 00:52:29,050 --> 00:52:30,472 declare victory, 987 00:52:30,572 --> 00:52:33,636 and then he will be the person 988 00:52:33,736 --> 00:52:37,560 who is liked, loved, admired 989 00:52:37,660 --> 00:52:39,642 in the Sunni Muslim world. 990 00:52:41,624 --> 00:52:44,748 Speaking Arabic 991 00:52:56,561 --> 00:52:59,084 speaking Arabic 992 00:53:07,653 --> 00:53:10,517 speaking Arabic 993 00:53:29,518 --> 00:53:32,621 Tens of thousands of people have been killed. 994 00:53:32,721 --> 00:53:34,223 They've bombed hospitals, 995 00:53:34,323 --> 00:53:38,067 UN facilities, refugee camps. 996 00:53:38,167 --> 00:53:42,232 Fifty thousand children have starved to death. 997 00:53:42,332 --> 00:53:46,356 America has assisted in this genocide. 998 00:53:46,456 --> 00:53:48,118 Not only have we supplied the weapons, 999 00:53:48,218 --> 00:53:51,402 we refueled the bombers and the fighter planes. 1000 00:53:51,502 --> 00:53:53,484 We trained them. 1001 00:53:53,584 --> 00:53:56,768 In the Arab world, it's known as 1002 00:53:56,868 --> 00:53:59,931 the Saudi-American War on Yemen. 1003 00:54:04,757 --> 00:54:06,098 The war in Yemen 1004 00:54:06,198 --> 00:54:08,200 was a real humanitarian catastrophe. 1005 00:54:09,802 --> 00:54:12,105 There had been other issues that we were aware of. 1006 00:54:12,205 --> 00:54:14,908 Saudi Arabia had detained a number of bloggers 1007 00:54:15,008 --> 00:54:17,030 and journalists. 1008 00:54:17,130 --> 00:54:20,114 They'd also had a mass execution of Shia, 1009 00:54:20,214 --> 00:54:22,857 including some prominent Shia clerics. 1010 00:54:23,738 --> 00:54:26,581 Speaking Arabic 1011 00:54:30,265 --> 00:54:33,348 shouting in Arabic 1012 00:54:38,915 --> 00:54:41,538 Our last trip was in April of 2016. 1013 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,662 Thank you very much, Your Majesty. 1014 00:54:45,762 --> 00:54:48,065 President Obama started to urge King Salman 1015 00:54:48,165 --> 00:54:50,107 to release some of these bloggers 1016 00:54:50,207 --> 00:54:52,950 and journalists, and with that... 1017 00:54:53,050 --> 00:54:54,472 Mr. President... 1018 00:54:54,572 --> 00:54:55,994 ...MBS stands up 1019 00:54:56,094 --> 00:55:00,559 and begins to lecture President Obama, saying, 1020 00:55:00,659 --> 00:55:02,641 "You don't understand the Saudi justice system. 1021 00:55:02,741 --> 00:55:05,061 Maybe we can get you a briefing on the Saudi justice system 1022 00:55:05,104 --> 00:55:07,166 and how it works." 1023 00:55:07,266 --> 00:55:10,650 This was a very aggressive presentation, 1024 00:55:10,750 --> 00:55:13,173 and I've-I've never seen anything like this. 1025 00:55:13,273 --> 00:55:14,774 I mean, it's very unusual for anybody 1026 00:55:14,874 --> 00:55:17,297 other than the president's interlocutor to talk at all. 1027 00:55:17,397 --> 00:55:18,815 It's certainly unusual for them to stand up 1028 00:55:18,839 --> 00:55:20,417 and kind of lecture the president of the United States. 1029 00:55:20,441 --> 00:55:22,663 Thank you for your hospitality. 1030 00:55:24,285 --> 00:55:25,947 Our view was, they're clearly 1031 00:55:26,047 --> 00:55:28,089 waiting for whoever's next. 1032 00:55:33,615 --> 00:55:37,159 It is my high honor to introduce to you 1033 00:55:37,259 --> 00:55:39,722 the president of the United States of America, 1034 00:55:39,822 --> 00:55:42,445 Donald Trump. 1035 00:55:45,468 --> 00:55:48,972 I'm with you, the American people. 1036 00:55:49,072 --> 00:55:50,895 So Jamal put out a series of tweets 1037 00:55:50,995 --> 00:55:53,698 being critical of Trump, 1038 00:55:53,798 --> 00:55:55,620 and then we got a warning. 1039 00:55:55,720 --> 00:55:57,662 There was an official statement put out 1040 00:55:57,762 --> 00:56:00,065 by the foreign ministry where they basically said 1041 00:56:00,165 --> 00:56:01,707 that Jamal and I didn't represent 1042 00:56:01,807 --> 00:56:03,228 the Saudi government, pft, 1043 00:56:03,328 --> 00:56:04,790 which is, okay, fine, 1044 00:56:04,890 --> 00:56:07,513 but that, I took as, you know, 1045 00:56:07,613 --> 00:56:08,794 things are different now. 1046 00:56:08,894 --> 00:56:10,677 You know, there's new guys in town. 1047 00:56:10,777 --> 00:56:12,639 Uh, it's time to be quiet. 1048 00:56:15,982 --> 00:56:19,026 Speaking Arabic 1049 00:56:45,135 --> 00:56:46,495 Saud al-Qahtani called him. 1050 00:56:46,536 --> 00:56:48,639 Told him, "You can't write. You can't speak. 1051 00:56:48,739 --> 00:56:50,761 You can't tweet. You can't do anything." 1052 00:56:50,861 --> 00:56:52,443 And I said, "Let's just stop this. 1053 00:56:52,543 --> 00:56:54,245 There's no point in continuing. 1054 00:56:54,345 --> 00:56:57,569 Clearly, we've become persona non grata." 1055 00:56:57,669 --> 00:56:58,970 Jamal was very upset about it. 1056 00:56:59,070 --> 00:57:01,733 He had a big name. He was like, "What do I do?" 1057 00:57:01,833 --> 00:57:03,135 What will you do? 1058 00:57:03,235 --> 00:57:06,098 Like, will you be able to go back to Saudi Arabia? 1059 00:57:06,198 --> 00:57:07,740 In principle, I can, 1060 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,705 uh, but when I, uh, see how many of my colleagues ended, 1061 00:57:12,805 --> 00:57:16,630 either, uh, jailed or banned from travel, uh, 1062 00:57:16,730 --> 00:57:19,353 I-I-I... 1063 00:57:19,453 --> 00:57:20,995 uh, I think otherwise. 1064 00:57:24,939 --> 00:57:28,062 Speaking Arabic 1065 00:57:38,073 --> 00:57:40,716 Jamal messaged me from a new U.S. number. 1066 00:57:44,481 --> 00:57:47,083 He dropped off some bags to hold at my apartment. 1067 00:57:49,286 --> 00:57:51,028 It's hard for me to talk about Jamal 1068 00:57:51,128 --> 00:57:55,953 leaving Saudi Arabia because... 1069 00:57:56,053 --> 00:57:59,677 it pained him 1070 00:57:59,777 --> 00:58:01,520 literally until the end. 1071 00:58:04,703 --> 00:58:07,366 Alaa was so upset with him, 1072 00:58:07,466 --> 00:58:09,488 and she had choices to make 1073 00:58:09,588 --> 00:58:11,971 because she had a travel ban 1074 00:58:12,071 --> 00:58:14,134 placed on her. 1075 00:58:14,234 --> 00:58:15,895 And it was impossible to reconcile 1076 00:58:15,995 --> 00:58:18,699 because there was no way out of this. 1077 00:58:18,799 --> 00:58:21,061 As long as she was married to him, 1078 00:58:21,161 --> 00:58:23,224 there was no other option. 1079 00:58:25,646 --> 00:58:29,070 The thing that I hope that Alaa knows 1080 00:58:29,170 --> 00:58:32,154 is how much he loved her 1081 00:58:32,254 --> 00:58:34,656 and regretted the end of their marriage. 1082 00:58:36,258 --> 00:58:39,762 Jamal and I were talking on the phone, 1083 00:58:39,862 --> 00:58:41,524 and he was very lonely. 1084 00:58:41,624 --> 00:58:45,368 You could see that he was-he was... 1085 00:58:45,468 --> 00:58:48,732 he had made a huge sacrifice in his personal life. 1086 00:58:48,832 --> 00:58:51,775 Unfortunately, many think the people 1087 00:58:51,875 --> 00:58:53,778 of the Arab world are not ready yet 1088 00:58:53,878 --> 00:58:57,582 for that luxury of choosing their own leader, 1089 00:58:57,682 --> 00:58:59,744 and that's what we are lacking until today. 1090 00:58:59,844 --> 00:59:01,342 Can I just jump in, one thing? 1091 00:59:01,366 --> 00:59:04,229 We shouldn't pass too quickly over some of these reforms 1092 00:59:04,329 --> 00:59:07,273 being very important to the future of that country... 1093 00:59:07,373 --> 00:59:08,874 But it was surprising to me 1094 00:59:08,974 --> 00:59:11,277 that we had such different takes 1095 00:59:11,377 --> 00:59:13,079 on Mohammed bin Salman. 1096 00:59:13,179 --> 00:59:14,961 I saw him as a reformer. 1097 00:59:15,061 --> 00:59:17,204 Let me introduce the vision 1098 00:59:17,304 --> 00:59:19,526 behind something of a revolution. 1099 00:59:19,626 --> 00:59:22,089 Please welcome to the stage, ladies and gentlemen, 1100 00:59:22,189 --> 00:59:23,971 His Royal Highness 1101 00:59:24,071 --> 00:59:26,093 Prince Mohammed bin Salman. 1102 00:59:27,635 --> 00:59:29,938 I found it to be utterly bizarre 1103 00:59:30,038 --> 00:59:32,380 that at a time when this guy 1104 00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,743 is clearly cracking down on dissent, 1105 00:59:34,843 --> 00:59:37,026 is, you know, involved in this kind of 1106 00:59:37,126 --> 00:59:40,109 rash war in Yemen that is killing people 1107 00:59:40,209 --> 00:59:41,951 and precipitating famine, 1108 00:59:42,051 --> 00:59:44,594 that he's getting great press in the United States. 1109 00:59:44,694 --> 00:59:46,712 Begin with Saudi Aramco, a strong public debut 1110 00:59:46,736 --> 00:59:50,080 after raising a record 25.6 billion in the IPO. 1111 00:59:50,180 --> 00:59:51,998 But of course, the U.S. business community 1112 00:59:52,022 --> 00:59:54,765 was drooling over, you know, an Aramco public offering 1113 00:59:54,865 --> 00:59:56,867 that could be worth trillions of dollars. 1114 00:59:58,750 --> 01:00:01,613 Mohammed bin Salman was vetted in Washington, 1115 01:00:01,713 --> 01:00:04,977 New York City, Hollywood, 1116 01:00:05,077 --> 01:00:06,819 Silicon Valley. 1117 01:00:06,919 --> 01:00:09,982 Every major aspect 1118 01:00:10,082 --> 01:00:12,505 of American power 1119 01:00:12,605 --> 01:00:15,388 rolled out the red carpet for this guy. 1120 01:00:15,488 --> 01:00:18,672 Mohammed bin Salman is a trillionaire, 1121 01:00:18,772 --> 01:00:21,675 and that's all these people saw. 1122 01:00:21,775 --> 01:00:23,717 Jamal Khashoggi's voice was important, 1123 01:00:23,817 --> 01:00:25,595 because it was one of the only dissenting voices. 1124 01:00:25,619 --> 01:00:27,001 I still see him as a reformer, 1125 01:00:27,101 --> 01:00:30,165 but he is gathering all power within his hand, 1126 01:00:30,265 --> 01:00:32,447 and it would be much better for him 1127 01:00:32,547 --> 01:00:35,170 to allow a breathing space for critic, 1128 01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:38,093 for Saudi intellectuals, Saudi writers, 1129 01:00:38,193 --> 01:00:39,855 Saudi media to debate. 1130 01:00:39,955 --> 01:00:41,577 Uh, we've become very good friends 1131 01:00:41,677 --> 01:00:44,300 over a fairly short period of time, 1132 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,584 and we are bringing back hundreds of billions of dollars 1133 01:00:47,684 --> 01:00:48,985 into the United States... 1134 01:00:49,085 --> 01:00:51,668 Trump recognized a kinship. 1135 01:00:51,768 --> 01:00:53,048 They're rich and entitled people. 1136 01:00:53,090 --> 01:00:54,872 They found common ground. 1137 01:00:54,972 --> 01:00:59,117 And the kingdom saw him as a benefactor, 1138 01:00:59,217 --> 01:01:01,079 a kind of stooge they could use. 1139 01:01:01,179 --> 01:01:02,921 ...million dollars, that's peanuts for you. 1140 01:01:04,623 --> 01:01:05,724 Thank you, Mr. President. 1141 01:01:05,824 --> 01:01:07,566 And so Mohammed bin Salman 1142 01:01:07,666 --> 01:01:09,368 became Trump's man, 1143 01:01:09,468 --> 01:01:11,670 Trump's man in the Middle East. 1144 01:01:28,169 --> 01:01:30,592 Trump's first trip as president 1145 01:01:30,692 --> 01:01:33,435 is to Saudi Arabia, which is totally bizarre. 1146 01:01:33,535 --> 01:01:34,916 I mean, uh, every U.S. president 1147 01:01:35,016 --> 01:01:37,079 goes to Canada or Mexico. 1148 01:01:37,179 --> 01:01:39,361 To go to Saudi Arabia on your first trip... 1149 01:01:39,461 --> 01:01:41,884 ...this-this is insane. 1150 01:01:47,590 --> 01:01:49,693 And when I saw that famous picture 1151 01:01:49,793 --> 01:01:52,616 of Trump and Sisi and King Salman 1152 01:01:52,716 --> 01:01:54,258 with, like, the orb, I mean, it... 1153 01:01:55,519 --> 01:01:57,501 ...that said it all. 1154 01:01:57,601 --> 01:01:59,664 You know, Egypt's General Sisi 1155 01:01:59,764 --> 01:02:01,306 is a brutal dictator, 1156 01:02:01,406 --> 01:02:03,308 and King Salman killed 1157 01:02:03,408 --> 01:02:05,110 the promise of the Arab Spring. 1158 01:02:05,210 --> 01:02:07,312 So clearly, Trump was for sale. 1159 01:02:07,412 --> 01:02:09,875 I mean, the Saudi ambassadors are going around here 1160 01:02:09,975 --> 01:02:11,295 telling everybody that they've got 1161 01:02:11,377 --> 01:02:13,119 Jared and Ivanka in their pocket. 1162 01:02:13,219 --> 01:02:15,621 Chanting in Arabic 1163 01:02:17,143 --> 01:02:19,085 Whatever MBS's wish list was, 1164 01:02:19,185 --> 01:02:21,388 Trump was saying yes to. 1165 01:02:23,710 --> 01:02:26,133 So it was pretty clear that there's 1166 01:02:26,233 --> 01:02:27,975 going to come a point of reckoning. 1167 01:02:34,282 --> 01:02:37,566 Speaking Arabic 1168 01:02:48,138 --> 01:02:50,200 The massive purge of princes 1169 01:02:50,300 --> 01:02:52,683 and one of the world's best-known billionaires 1170 01:02:52,783 --> 01:02:55,005 all arrested by a man who would be a king, 1171 01:02:55,105 --> 01:02:57,208 a man emboldened by President Trump. 1172 01:02:57,308 --> 01:02:59,650 On November 4, 2017, 1173 01:02:59,750 --> 01:03:03,014 these raids took place all over Saudi Arabia. 1174 01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:10,262 Many of the most prominent businessmen, 1175 01:03:10,362 --> 01:03:13,626 intellectuals were rounded up, hundreds of them, 1176 01:03:13,726 --> 01:03:17,070 and put in the Ritz-Carlton in Riyadh. 1177 01:03:20,574 --> 01:03:22,556 And they were held for weeks, 1178 01:03:22,656 --> 01:03:25,839 interrogated, tortured. 1179 01:03:25,939 --> 01:03:27,401 Many of them were hospitalized. 1180 01:03:27,501 --> 01:03:29,684 One guy, his neck was broken. 1181 01:03:29,784 --> 01:03:32,527 His body was covered with electrical burns. 1182 01:03:32,627 --> 01:03:34,209 He was a general. 1183 01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:38,093 They were shaken down by Mohammed bin Salman's man, 1184 01:03:38,193 --> 01:03:40,175 Saud al-Qahtani. 1185 01:03:40,275 --> 01:03:41,657 That was a coup. 1186 01:03:45,321 --> 01:03:48,104 Saudi Arabia had different factions 1187 01:03:48,204 --> 01:03:49,346 inside the royal family. 1188 01:03:49,446 --> 01:03:52,229 Each one of these factions have connections 1189 01:03:52,329 --> 01:03:55,072 to economic elite, to business elite. 1190 01:03:55,172 --> 01:03:57,595 You have the religious establishment. 1191 01:03:57,695 --> 01:03:59,357 But Mohammed bin Salman decided 1192 01:03:59,457 --> 01:04:00,999 that there's only one faction 1193 01:04:01,099 --> 01:04:02,640 in the house of Saud, and it's him. 1194 01:04:11,951 --> 01:04:15,254 The ripple effect from Al-Waleed 1195 01:04:15,354 --> 01:04:17,857 being arrested was tremendous. 1196 01:04:17,957 --> 01:04:20,580 Stock prices moved. 1197 01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:22,663 It was seismic. 1198 01:04:22,763 --> 01:04:26,146 Prince Al-Waleed is an important investor, 1199 01:04:26,246 --> 01:04:29,790 the most well-known member of the royal family 1200 01:04:29,890 --> 01:04:31,953 outside the kingdom, 1201 01:04:32,053 --> 01:04:34,936 very firmly within the center of power. 1202 01:04:35,937 --> 01:04:39,842 Prince Al-Waleed had been Jamal's patron. 1203 01:04:39,942 --> 01:04:43,946 And suddenly, you see on TV that he is powerless. 1204 01:04:45,187 --> 01:04:46,689 This is my Diet Pepsi. 1205 01:04:46,789 --> 01:04:48,731 He is praising his kidnapper 1206 01:04:48,831 --> 01:04:50,053 and telling everybody 1207 01:04:50,153 --> 01:04:51,495 that he's been treated very well. 1208 01:04:51,595 --> 01:04:53,012 And all these rumors really upset me. 1209 01:04:53,036 --> 01:04:54,374 - Okay. - I mean, because now, 1210 01:04:54,398 --> 01:04:55,299 they-they went so far. 1211 01:04:55,399 --> 01:04:56,399 All lies. 1212 01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:57,720 You know, I've been always, uh, 1213 01:04:57,761 --> 01:04:59,904 all the time here, at this hotel, 1214 01:05:00,004 --> 01:05:02,046 and, um, everything has been fine. 1215 01:05:04,128 --> 01:05:06,511 When I talked to Jamal last, 1216 01:05:06,611 --> 01:05:08,874 he said he got out just in time. 1217 01:05:08,974 --> 01:05:12,638 He would no doubt have been in the Ritz-Carlton, 1218 01:05:12,738 --> 01:05:16,082 maybe in far worse circumstances. 1219 01:05:21,508 --> 01:05:24,591 Speaking Arabic 1220 01:05:48,618 --> 01:05:51,281 Jamal was very sad. 1221 01:05:51,381 --> 01:05:53,443 He lost hope. 1222 01:05:53,543 --> 01:05:55,045 I said, "No, take it easy. 1223 01:05:55,145 --> 01:05:55,886 You're free now. 1224 01:05:55,986 --> 01:05:57,488 You can express your opinion. 1225 01:05:57,588 --> 01:05:58,889 You have a freedom, 1226 01:05:58,989 --> 01:06:00,371 because not to say your opinion 1227 01:06:00,471 --> 01:06:02,533 about what's happening, that will kill you." 1228 01:06:05,837 --> 01:06:08,941 I know Jamal for ten years. 1229 01:06:09,041 --> 01:06:12,665 And we become closer and closer. 1230 01:06:12,765 --> 01:06:15,348 I have a habit to wake him up every day 1231 01:06:15,448 --> 01:06:17,590 seven o'clock in the morning because he was lonely. 1232 01:06:17,690 --> 01:06:18,831 He was isolated. 1233 01:06:22,135 --> 01:06:24,558 This went for a while 1234 01:06:24,658 --> 01:06:28,402 until the middle of 2017, 1235 01:06:28,502 --> 01:06:29,844 he sent to me a message. 1236 01:06:29,944 --> 01:06:31,464 He said, "Hanan, come and stay with me. 1237 01:06:31,546 --> 01:06:33,248 Come, and they won't see you." 1238 01:06:37,672 --> 01:06:39,895 I was very happy. 1239 01:06:39,995 --> 01:06:41,497 He's the man I wished, 1240 01:06:41,597 --> 01:06:43,979 but I didn't have a courage to express it before 1241 01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:46,342 because he was married. 1242 01:06:46,442 --> 01:06:48,544 First time I managed to come and see him, 1243 01:06:48,644 --> 01:06:52,108 it was to celebrate his birthday in March. 1244 01:06:52,208 --> 01:06:56,273 Well, it was his half-birthday party in March, 1245 01:06:56,373 --> 01:06:58,476 and he was dating 1246 01:06:58,576 --> 01:07:00,478 a really wonderful woman. 1247 01:07:00,578 --> 01:07:03,341 It was always fun to have Jamal happy. 1248 01:07:04,342 --> 01:07:06,524 When we got married, 1249 01:07:06,624 --> 01:07:09,328 it was the most beautiful day in my life, 1250 01:07:09,428 --> 01:07:11,170 and I will never forget. 1251 01:07:13,552 --> 01:07:15,454 I think I'm in a dream. 1252 01:07:18,237 --> 01:07:22,622 But he was very loyal to the Kingdom of Saudi, 1253 01:07:22,722 --> 01:07:26,627 so he was feeling very bad because he lost his hope. 1254 01:07:29,330 --> 01:07:32,053 He decide he have to express himself. 1255 01:07:37,659 --> 01:07:40,162 Fall of 2017, 1256 01:07:40,262 --> 01:07:42,745 Jamal was in self-imposed exile. 1257 01:07:43,786 --> 01:07:45,007 We met, 1258 01:07:45,107 --> 01:07:46,689 and he gave me the biggest bear hug. 1259 01:07:46,789 --> 01:07:49,612 It was really, really warm, and then he started crying. 1260 01:07:49,712 --> 01:07:52,696 He said, "I left my country. 1261 01:07:52,796 --> 01:07:56,380 I left my family behind for freedom, 1262 01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:58,462 just to be free. 1263 01:07:58,562 --> 01:08:02,386 And no one knows what that feels like more than you." 1264 01:08:04,048 --> 01:08:05,710 I learned later 1265 01:08:05,810 --> 01:08:07,512 that his first Washington Post article 1266 01:08:07,612 --> 01:08:10,095 was published that hour. 1267 01:08:11,136 --> 01:08:13,198 "Saudi Arabia wasn't always 1268 01:08:13,298 --> 01:08:16,722 this repressive," by Jamal Khashoggi. 1269 01:08:19,105 --> 01:08:21,488 We spend endless hours on the phone 1270 01:08:21,588 --> 01:08:25,132 trying to understand the wave of arrests. 1271 01:08:25,232 --> 01:08:29,176 Are we going to be the core of the Saudi diaspora? 1272 01:08:29,276 --> 01:08:32,980 Al-Hayat canceled my column. 1273 01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,064 The government banned me from Twitter. 1274 01:08:36,164 --> 01:08:38,386 I spent six months silent, 1275 01:08:38,486 --> 01:08:41,410 reflecting on the stark choices before me. 1276 01:08:43,051 --> 01:08:47,316 Years ago, when several friends were arrested, 1277 01:08:47,416 --> 01:08:49,419 I said nothing. 1278 01:08:50,179 --> 01:08:53,163 I have made a different choice now. 1279 01:08:53,263 --> 01:08:55,045 I have left my home, 1280 01:08:55,145 --> 01:08:58,929 my family, and my job, 1281 01:08:59,029 --> 01:09:02,573 and I am raising my voice. 1282 01:09:28,222 --> 01:09:30,284 He wrote that first piece. 1283 01:09:30,384 --> 01:09:32,967 Next day, his ex-wife calls me, 1284 01:09:33,067 --> 01:09:34,569 says, "Look what he just did." 1285 01:09:34,669 --> 01:09:36,407 Which, I was like, "But, Jamal, we just talked. 1286 01:09:36,431 --> 01:09:38,533 What's going on?" 1287 01:09:38,633 --> 01:09:41,316 Clearly, something had gone very wrong. 1288 01:09:42,998 --> 01:09:44,820 He had kept this very secret. 1289 01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:46,942 That shocked a lot of us, 1290 01:09:47,042 --> 01:09:49,025 and when it came to Saudi Arabia, 1291 01:09:49,125 --> 01:09:52,148 I always believed that his loyalty was strong 1292 01:09:52,248 --> 01:09:56,273 to his country and to his king. 1293 01:09:56,373 --> 01:09:58,956 I felt that I had been betrayed. 1294 01:10:05,423 --> 01:10:08,246 Jamal expressed his opinion 1295 01:10:08,346 --> 01:10:11,410 from Washington, the seat of power, 1296 01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:14,413 writing in the voice of empire, 1297 01:10:14,513 --> 01:10:16,015 The Washington Post. 1298 01:10:16,115 --> 01:10:18,798 That could not be tolerated. 1299 01:10:19,879 --> 01:10:22,021 He started writing this, saying these things, 1300 01:10:22,121 --> 01:10:23,984 and then all these weird people 1301 01:10:24,084 --> 01:10:25,545 started getting to know him. 1302 01:10:25,645 --> 01:10:29,229 You know, uh, started to, you know, hang around with him, 1303 01:10:29,329 --> 01:10:31,192 tweet things about him. 1304 01:10:31,292 --> 01:10:33,554 It became very bizarre. 1305 01:10:39,381 --> 01:10:42,244 Mr. Khashoggi was publishing articles 1306 01:10:42,344 --> 01:10:44,687 that were critical of the Saudi regime, 1307 01:10:44,787 --> 01:10:48,210 and so we called him to request a meeting. 1308 01:10:48,310 --> 01:10:51,134 Jamal Khashoggi knew a lot of information 1309 01:10:51,234 --> 01:10:54,297 about al-Qaeda and Saudi support for al-Qaeda. 1310 01:10:54,397 --> 01:10:57,060 So we wanted to talk to him. 1311 01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,103 The meeting with our investigator 1312 01:10:59,203 --> 01:11:01,065 was the morning of October 26th 1313 01:11:01,165 --> 01:11:03,227 in the Virginia area. 1314 01:11:03,327 --> 01:11:06,511 This was a preliminary meeting. 1315 01:11:06,611 --> 01:11:08,994 It became clear that Mr. Khashoggi 1316 01:11:09,094 --> 01:11:11,556 had a lot to say. 1317 01:11:11,656 --> 01:11:14,199 The morning that he's going to meet 1318 01:11:14,299 --> 01:11:17,403 with the investigator, he gets a call from his son 1319 01:11:17,503 --> 01:11:20,566 in Saudi Arabia saying that their travel permits 1320 01:11:20,666 --> 01:11:23,209 had been taken away. 1321 01:11:23,309 --> 01:11:24,771 So essentially, the Saudi authorities 1322 01:11:24,871 --> 01:11:28,415 know that he's meeting with this investigator, 1323 01:11:28,515 --> 01:11:32,860 and his children are being held hostage. 1324 01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:34,858 The first thing Mr. Khashoggi indicated 1325 01:11:34,882 --> 01:11:37,145 was the recent news about his son's 1326 01:11:37,245 --> 01:11:40,208 inability to travel, which upset him. 1327 01:11:42,250 --> 01:11:44,113 I used to be a federal prosecutor, 1328 01:11:44,213 --> 01:11:47,436 and we had informants that elected to testify 1329 01:11:47,536 --> 01:11:50,600 against their coconspirators. 1330 01:11:50,700 --> 01:11:53,163 If Jamal Khashoggi had been an insider, 1331 01:11:53,263 --> 01:11:54,965 and he was, and had information 1332 01:11:55,065 --> 01:11:56,606 that could be helpful to us 1333 01:11:56,706 --> 01:11:59,610 and was willing to meet with us and discuss it, 1334 01:11:59,710 --> 01:12:02,693 that is a serious threat to the Saudi government. 1335 01:12:02,793 --> 01:12:06,097 The question is, to what extent 1336 01:12:06,197 --> 01:12:08,940 was the Saudi government and the royal family 1337 01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:10,942 entangled with al-Qaeda? 1338 01:12:11,042 --> 01:12:12,424 Well, they were. 1339 01:12:12,524 --> 01:12:15,147 Going back before al-Qaeda, 1340 01:12:15,247 --> 01:12:17,189 they were funding the mujahideen, 1341 01:12:17,289 --> 01:12:19,472 and King Salman was the principal bundler 1342 01:12:19,572 --> 01:12:22,075 of all these contributions to the mujahideen 1343 01:12:22,175 --> 01:12:24,397 and then later to al-Qaeda. 1344 01:12:28,061 --> 01:12:29,603 Jamal would have known about that. 1345 01:12:29,703 --> 01:12:31,765 Jamal worked with Prince Turki, 1346 01:12:31,865 --> 01:12:35,009 who had been the head of intelligence, 1347 01:12:35,109 --> 01:12:36,931 and he facilitated these meetings 1348 01:12:37,031 --> 01:12:39,734 with bin Laden in Afghanistan. 1349 01:12:39,834 --> 01:12:43,018 And who knows what bin Laden told him? 1350 01:12:43,118 --> 01:12:45,581 I mean, is there a person in the whole world 1351 01:12:45,681 --> 01:12:47,783 that knows more about this relationship 1352 01:12:47,883 --> 01:12:48,944 than Jamal Khashoggi? 1353 01:12:49,044 --> 01:12:50,044 I don't think so. 1354 01:12:52,849 --> 01:12:54,827 The Saudis claimed that they enjoyed immunity 1355 01:12:54,851 --> 01:12:57,114 even if all our allegations were true. 1356 01:12:57,214 --> 01:13:01,118 They hired lobbyists in Washington, 1357 01:13:01,218 --> 01:13:05,563 and Saud al-Qahtani's name appears on some of the forms. 1358 01:13:05,663 --> 01:13:07,685 His official title had something to do 1359 01:13:07,785 --> 01:13:09,688 with media and public relations, 1360 01:13:09,788 --> 01:13:11,085 but the easiest way to describe him 1361 01:13:11,109 --> 01:13:13,111 is-is MBS's henchman. 1362 01:13:14,433 --> 01:13:16,415 Qahtani, on behalf of the crown prince, 1363 01:13:16,515 --> 01:13:18,497 hired the lobbyists 1364 01:13:18,597 --> 01:13:21,120 specifically to kill this lawsuit. 1365 01:13:23,643 --> 01:13:26,306 Jamal Khashoggi agreed to a follow-up meeting. 1366 01:13:26,406 --> 01:13:29,409 He agreed to come to our office here in New York. 1367 01:13:30,931 --> 01:13:34,595 What he would say and what he would be willing to disclose, 1368 01:13:34,695 --> 01:13:37,038 we'll never know. 1369 01:14:04,849 --> 01:14:08,713 Saud al-Qahtani unleashed hell on Jamal... 1370 01:14:08,813 --> 01:14:11,716 The trolls, the bots, whatever they are, 1371 01:14:11,816 --> 01:14:16,321 the turning of friends and former colleagues... 1372 01:14:16,421 --> 01:14:17,883 All of that. 1373 01:14:17,983 --> 01:14:19,966 He was threatened and intimidated all the time. 1374 01:14:20,066 --> 01:14:22,288 Of course it was orchestrated. 1375 01:14:22,388 --> 01:14:24,510 And Jamal knew that. 1376 01:14:27,113 --> 01:14:30,497 It was November of 2017. 1377 01:14:30,597 --> 01:14:32,299 We were on our way to grab dinner, 1378 01:14:32,399 --> 01:14:35,543 and he says, "Guess what. 1379 01:14:35,643 --> 01:14:38,386 Saud al-Qahtani sent me a DM on Twitter. 1380 01:14:38,486 --> 01:14:40,909 Yeah, he wants to talk." 1381 01:14:41,009 --> 01:14:44,793 And you can hear the fear in his voice. 1382 01:14:44,893 --> 01:14:48,557 He answers the call, puts it on speaker. 1383 01:14:48,657 --> 01:14:50,920 Saud al-Qahtani starts off, 1384 01:14:51,020 --> 01:14:55,125 says, "I am calling on behalf of His Royal Highness 1385 01:14:55,225 --> 01:14:57,367 Mohammed bin Salman. 1386 01:14:57,467 --> 01:15:00,330 He's watching. He follows your work." 1387 01:15:00,430 --> 01:15:02,693 So Jamal, he says, 1388 01:15:02,793 --> 01:15:05,336 "Please send my warmest regards 1389 01:15:05,436 --> 01:15:07,138 to His Royal Highness 1390 01:15:07,238 --> 01:15:09,060 and convey to him 1391 01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,504 that when there are positive reforms happening, 1392 01:15:12,604 --> 01:15:16,148 we will most definitely welcome them. 1393 01:15:16,248 --> 01:15:20,453 When there are transgressions, we will be critical." 1394 01:15:21,854 --> 01:15:23,997 This was a moment that I realized 1395 01:15:24,097 --> 01:15:27,360 this is a noble man; this is a courageous man. 1396 01:15:27,460 --> 01:15:29,683 This man was very serious 1397 01:15:29,783 --> 01:15:32,126 about the evolution that he was making. 1398 01:15:38,793 --> 01:15:40,695 If you hear Jamal was faithful 1399 01:15:40,795 --> 01:15:43,578 to the Kingdom of Saudi, this is the truth. 1400 01:15:43,678 --> 01:15:45,681 He used to defend them. 1401 01:15:47,603 --> 01:15:51,307 But he think his duty is to advise, 1402 01:15:51,407 --> 01:15:52,708 to say his opinion 1403 01:15:52,808 --> 01:15:54,931 before things lead to a bad stage. 1404 01:15:56,813 --> 01:15:59,476 Jamal had asked me to be on the lookout, 1405 01:15:59,576 --> 01:16:02,399 kind of play matchmaker. 1406 01:16:02,499 --> 01:16:04,339 And I tried; I tried connecting him to someone. 1407 01:16:09,107 --> 01:16:10,568 He was very, very lonely. 1408 01:16:10,668 --> 01:16:13,251 He had just gotten a divorce. 1409 01:16:13,351 --> 01:16:16,575 I didn't know about Hanan. 1410 01:16:16,675 --> 01:16:17,896 After we got married, 1411 01:16:17,996 --> 01:16:21,701 Jamal want to spend as much time together. 1412 01:16:21,801 --> 01:16:23,863 He doesn't want anyone to take him away from me, 1413 01:16:23,963 --> 01:16:26,386 and that's why we don't even like 1414 01:16:26,486 --> 01:16:27,988 to go and spend long time out. 1415 01:16:28,088 --> 01:16:31,071 We want to be just together away from people. 1416 01:16:33,814 --> 01:16:35,694 If you interview anybody that tells you 1417 01:16:35,736 --> 01:16:38,079 that they know every aspect of Jamal's life, 1418 01:16:38,179 --> 01:16:41,443 they are 100% lying to you. 1419 01:16:41,543 --> 01:16:44,566 Jamal chose what information 1420 01:16:44,666 --> 01:16:47,549 he shared with each person. 1421 01:16:50,272 --> 01:16:52,455 This will be broadcasted in a few days, 1422 01:16:52,555 --> 01:16:54,737 not, uh, right away, right? 1423 01:16:54,837 --> 01:16:56,019 It'll be, um... 1424 01:16:56,119 --> 01:16:58,542 It'll go on air, uh, Tuesday night, actually, 1425 01:16:58,642 --> 01:17:01,945 the night that, um, MBS is in Washington. 1426 01:17:02,045 --> 01:17:03,707 - All right. - It will be after... 1427 01:17:03,807 --> 01:17:07,111 after MBS has met, uh, Trump. 1428 01:17:07,211 --> 01:17:09,033 All right. 1429 01:17:09,133 --> 01:17:11,476 He knew what the stakes were, 1430 01:17:11,576 --> 01:17:15,000 and knowing all of those stakes 1431 01:17:15,100 --> 01:17:19,925 and then still deciding to go ahead 1432 01:17:20,025 --> 01:17:22,288 and speak freely 1433 01:17:22,388 --> 01:17:23,930 was very courageous of him. 1434 01:17:24,030 --> 01:17:26,453 And why did you self-exile? 1435 01:17:26,553 --> 01:17:29,976 I just felt, uh, whatever narrow space I had 1436 01:17:30,076 --> 01:17:32,739 was getting narrower, and I just thought 1437 01:17:32,839 --> 01:17:35,142 it was better for me to leave. 1438 01:17:35,242 --> 01:17:39,427 And, uh, actually, right after I left, uh, 1439 01:17:39,527 --> 01:17:41,109 arrests began to happen. 1440 01:17:41,209 --> 01:17:45,113 Many of my acquaintances, friends, colleagues 1441 01:17:45,213 --> 01:17:48,477 were rounded up, and, uh-uh, 1442 01:17:48,577 --> 01:17:50,840 I-I always regret being away from home, 1443 01:17:50,940 --> 01:17:54,844 but when, uh-uh, I see what happened to them, 1444 01:17:54,944 --> 01:17:58,768 I-I think I did the right choice, uh, 1445 01:17:58,868 --> 01:18:03,013 even though it is very hurtful to be away from home. 1446 01:18:03,113 --> 01:18:05,216 My way of consoling him was, 1447 01:18:05,316 --> 01:18:06,497 "Don't worry. 1448 01:18:06,597 --> 01:18:07,979 There's a lot of people like you. 1449 01:18:08,079 --> 01:18:12,864 There's an entire community of folks in exile. 1450 01:18:12,964 --> 01:18:15,747 And so you'll find comfort in that community." 1451 01:18:18,130 --> 01:18:20,192 But he didn't find that community 1452 01:18:20,292 --> 01:18:22,515 out here in Washington. 1453 01:18:38,192 --> 01:18:41,035 Speaking Arabic 1454 01:19:25,004 --> 01:19:28,828 June 5, 2018, 1455 01:19:28,928 --> 01:19:31,471 in this age of error, 1456 01:19:31,571 --> 01:19:35,436 an Arab intellectual rushes to praise the prisons, 1457 01:19:35,536 --> 01:19:39,680 to write against the Spring. 1458 01:19:39,780 --> 01:19:42,363 Another burns the last of his history 1459 01:19:42,463 --> 01:19:44,606 and his forbidden books. 1460 01:19:44,706 --> 01:19:47,289 He says, "We are not ready 1461 01:19:47,389 --> 01:19:49,391 for democracy and freedom." 1462 01:19:51,193 --> 01:19:55,418 It anguishes me to speak with other Saudi friends 1463 01:19:55,518 --> 01:19:59,482 in Istanbul who are also in self-exile. 1464 01:20:00,483 --> 01:20:04,067 I expect that I will still wake up every morning 1465 01:20:04,167 --> 01:20:06,510 and ponder the choice I have made 1466 01:20:06,610 --> 01:20:09,834 to speak my mind. 1467 01:20:09,934 --> 01:20:12,917 We are being asked to abandon any hope 1468 01:20:13,017 --> 01:20:15,820 of political freedoms. 1469 01:20:17,382 --> 01:20:21,667 This is a Faustian bargain that I will not make. 1470 01:20:23,349 --> 01:20:26,653 We are the kingdom of silence no longer. 1471 01:20:34,201 --> 01:20:37,064 Jamal in this time, he was in Istanbul. 1472 01:20:37,164 --> 01:20:40,188 Istanbul, it's very open city 1473 01:20:40,288 --> 01:20:42,750 for different Arabic background, 1474 01:20:42,850 --> 01:20:44,793 and there is a lot of activity there. 1475 01:20:44,893 --> 01:20:47,736 He always go, and he have friends there. 1476 01:20:50,459 --> 01:20:53,963 I called him when he was in Istanbul, 1477 01:20:54,063 --> 01:20:56,285 and he said, "By the way, I might be doing 1478 01:20:56,385 --> 01:20:59,489 three weeks in Istanbul, three weeks in D.C." 1479 01:20:59,589 --> 01:21:02,252 So then I was like, "Oh, it looks like you found someone." 1480 01:21:02,352 --> 01:21:04,374 And then he was like, "Yeah, I did. 1481 01:21:04,474 --> 01:21:05,816 I really like her. 1482 01:21:05,916 --> 01:21:07,418 We're gonna get married soon. 1483 01:21:07,518 --> 01:21:09,500 I'll tell you all about it when I get back." 1484 01:21:12,123 --> 01:21:15,086 I didn't know about Hatice. 1485 01:21:17,369 --> 01:21:19,371 I knew about Hanan. 1486 01:21:20,252 --> 01:21:23,355 But I-I didn't know they had gotten married. 1487 01:21:23,455 --> 01:21:25,398 So I'll say this. 1488 01:21:25,498 --> 01:21:29,442 I think if you understand the loneliness of that man 1489 01:21:29,542 --> 01:21:32,325 in that last year... 1490 01:21:38,152 --> 01:21:40,975 ...I think things that you can judge 1491 01:21:41,075 --> 01:21:44,078 so easily from outside... 1492 01:21:46,681 --> 01:21:49,144 ...become a bit more nuanced. 1493 01:21:57,653 --> 01:22:00,116 Last call between me and Jamal, 1494 01:22:00,216 --> 01:22:03,080 he called to wish me happy birthday. 1495 01:22:03,180 --> 01:22:05,242 My birthday is 30 September, 1496 01:22:05,342 --> 01:22:07,705 which is two days before he disappear. 1497 01:22:09,907 --> 01:22:12,770 He messaged from Istanbul. 1498 01:22:12,870 --> 01:22:17,375 He said to me, "What if I just go away to a desert island 1499 01:22:17,475 --> 01:22:21,200 for a couple weeks, couple years?" 1500 01:22:22,361 --> 01:22:25,024 You know, he would-he would come to me and say things like 1501 01:22:25,124 --> 01:22:29,789 he was doubting his resolve, and he knew how I would react. 1502 01:22:29,889 --> 01:22:33,233 You know, a slap to the head. 1503 01:22:33,333 --> 01:22:34,675 "Jamal." 1504 01:22:34,775 --> 01:22:36,517 I remember saying these words, 1505 01:22:36,617 --> 01:22:38,519 'cause they will forever haunt me. 1506 01:22:38,619 --> 01:22:42,363 I said, "You are in a war, 1507 01:22:42,463 --> 01:22:44,966 and you can't give up. 1508 01:22:45,066 --> 01:22:47,489 You can't disappear." 1509 01:22:47,589 --> 01:22:50,412 Those are the last words 1510 01:22:50,512 --> 01:22:51,894 I said to him, 1511 01:22:51,994 --> 01:22:54,537 and I had no idea 1512 01:22:54,637 --> 01:22:56,939 what I was even talking about. 1513 01:23:00,803 --> 01:23:04,187 So on the 28th of September, 1514 01:23:04,287 --> 01:23:08,112 uh, Jamal Khashoggi and his fiancée, Hatice, 1515 01:23:08,212 --> 01:23:10,675 go to the consulate to get 1516 01:23:10,775 --> 01:23:15,039 an administrative piece of paper for their marriage. 1517 01:23:15,139 --> 01:23:17,202 They tell him to come back 1518 01:23:17,302 --> 01:23:19,604 on the second of October and that on that day, 1519 01:23:19,704 --> 01:23:21,687 they'll have the document that he needs. 1520 01:23:24,310 --> 01:23:28,054 So the Turkish authorities had somehow bugged 1521 01:23:28,154 --> 01:23:30,256 the Saudi consulate, 1522 01:23:30,356 --> 01:23:34,221 and almost immediately, there are phone calls 1523 01:23:34,321 --> 01:23:37,304 between the consulate in Istanbul 1524 01:23:37,404 --> 01:23:39,507 and, uh, Riyadh. 1525 01:23:39,607 --> 01:23:42,390 And in the first call, 1526 01:23:42,490 --> 01:23:44,472 it's a security attaché 1527 01:23:44,572 --> 01:23:48,296 who speaks to an intelligence officer, Mutreb. 1528 01:23:50,138 --> 01:23:53,322 Mutreb explained that Mr. Jamal Khashoggi 1529 01:23:53,422 --> 01:23:56,766 is indeed someone that is being "sought" 1530 01:23:56,866 --> 01:23:58,087 and that they should proceed 1531 01:23:58,187 --> 01:24:00,530 with some kind of, uh-of mission. 1532 01:24:11,602 --> 01:24:13,544 This special operation 1533 01:24:13,644 --> 01:24:17,108 involved 15 people. 1534 01:24:17,208 --> 01:24:19,871 Saud al-Qahtani met the team 1535 01:24:19,971 --> 01:24:23,275 before they left for Turkey 1536 01:24:23,375 --> 01:24:26,759 on the Saudi government's private plane. 1537 01:24:29,462 --> 01:24:34,127 And Mutreb was leading the team, 1538 01:24:34,227 --> 01:24:37,531 and like every other member of the kill team, 1539 01:24:37,631 --> 01:24:41,175 he's a member of the Saudi intelligence. 1540 01:24:41,275 --> 01:24:43,017 Mutreb in particular 1541 01:24:43,117 --> 01:24:45,099 had accompanied the crown price 1542 01:24:45,199 --> 01:24:47,983 on some of this missions, 1543 01:24:48,083 --> 01:24:50,946 and he was someone who worked closely 1544 01:24:51,046 --> 01:24:53,389 with Saud al-Qahtani. 1545 01:25:00,016 --> 01:25:02,439 Yes, it was Maher. 1546 01:25:02,539 --> 01:25:06,323 Maher was a, uh... was an intelligence officer 1547 01:25:06,423 --> 01:25:07,805 that worked at the Saudi embassy 1548 01:25:07,905 --> 01:25:09,326 in, uh, London at that time. 1549 01:25:09,426 --> 01:25:11,489 He was there when we were there, 1550 01:25:11,589 --> 01:25:13,811 and, uh, I introduced them at one of our 1551 01:25:13,911 --> 01:25:16,454 afternoon teas together. 1552 01:25:16,554 --> 01:25:18,536 We were colleagues more than anything, 1553 01:25:18,636 --> 01:25:21,440 you know, and from time to time, Maher would join us. 1554 01:25:22,961 --> 01:25:24,161 To be fair, he was a nice guy. 1555 01:25:42,103 --> 01:25:46,347 Jamal Khashoggi enters the consulate at 1:14. 1556 01:25:47,228 --> 01:25:51,593 He is directed to the office of the consul. 1557 01:25:59,802 --> 01:26:04,427 He enters and finds many people in that room, 1558 01:26:04,527 --> 01:26:07,190 and so you can hear surprise 1559 01:26:07,290 --> 01:26:09,473 because Mutreb 1560 01:26:09,573 --> 01:26:12,156 and Jamal Khashoggi knew each other. 1561 01:26:12,256 --> 01:26:16,241 So when Jamal entered the consul office 1562 01:26:16,341 --> 01:26:20,325 and saw Mutreb, he did express some surprise, 1563 01:26:20,425 --> 01:26:25,291 but he welcomes Mutreb in fairly warm terms. 1564 01:26:25,391 --> 01:26:28,414 The conversation turns very quickly. 1565 01:26:28,514 --> 01:26:32,098 Mutreb is saying, "Don't make it difficult for us." 1566 01:26:32,198 --> 01:26:35,061 And you can hear the fear 1567 01:26:35,161 --> 01:26:37,684 in the voice of Jamal Khashoggi. 1568 01:26:39,847 --> 01:26:42,690 Speaking Arabic 1569 01:27:37,591 --> 01:27:39,893 The doctor himself explained to Mutreb 1570 01:27:39,993 --> 01:27:44,739 that it will be easy to dismember the body. 1571 01:27:44,839 --> 01:27:48,183 Joints will be separated. It should not be a problem. 1572 01:27:57,773 --> 01:27:59,155 At 3 p.m., 1573 01:27:59,255 --> 01:28:01,317 CCTV captured people 1574 01:28:01,417 --> 01:28:03,680 leaving the consulate with plastic bags 1575 01:28:03,780 --> 01:28:06,523 with the remain of Mr. Khashoggi. 1576 01:28:06,623 --> 01:28:09,366 The body parts were carried out 1577 01:28:09,466 --> 01:28:12,690 in several bags and handed over 1578 01:28:12,790 --> 01:28:15,853 to other individuals who carried them 1579 01:28:15,953 --> 01:28:17,175 into the car. 1580 01:28:17,275 --> 01:28:21,299 And at 3:50, those same camera 1581 01:28:21,399 --> 01:28:23,542 record a member of the kill team 1582 01:28:23,642 --> 01:28:26,906 leaving the consulate accompanied by someone else. 1583 01:28:27,006 --> 01:28:30,790 This man puts on Jamal Khashoggi's clothes, 1584 01:28:30,890 --> 01:28:32,151 puts a fake beard. 1585 01:28:32,251 --> 01:28:34,314 Could not put on the shoes. 1586 01:28:34,414 --> 01:28:36,396 They didn't fit. 1587 01:28:36,496 --> 01:28:40,601 And it was the shoes that prompted 1588 01:28:40,701 --> 01:28:43,164 the intelligence, uh, services 1589 01:28:43,264 --> 01:28:45,086 when they reviewed all the CCTV 1590 01:28:45,186 --> 01:28:47,188 to say that's not Jamal. 1591 01:28:50,271 --> 01:28:53,735 But this is meant to pretend 1592 01:28:53,835 --> 01:28:57,459 that Khashoggi left the consulate, 1593 01:28:57,559 --> 01:28:59,261 and we do not know 1594 01:28:59,361 --> 01:29:03,206 where Jamal remains are. 1595 01:29:06,489 --> 01:29:10,173 Speaking Arabic 1596 01:29:30,556 --> 01:29:34,100 chanting in Arabic 1597 01:29:43,611 --> 01:29:46,213 chanting in Arabic 1598 01:30:02,912 --> 01:30:04,974 Knowing what I know about Saudi Arabia, 1599 01:30:05,074 --> 01:30:07,617 there is no way that that horrific act 1600 01:30:07,717 --> 01:30:10,861 was carried out without the blessing 1601 01:30:10,961 --> 01:30:14,145 and direction from the very top of the Saudi government. 1602 01:30:14,245 --> 01:30:15,666 There's just no way. 1603 01:30:15,766 --> 01:30:17,264 Senators from both sides of the aisle 1604 01:30:17,288 --> 01:30:20,071 are receiving the CIA briefing they have been demanding. 1605 01:30:20,171 --> 01:30:23,355 There's not a smoking gun. There's a smoking saw. 1606 01:30:23,455 --> 01:30:25,197 You have to be willfully blind 1607 01:30:25,297 --> 01:30:26,919 not to come to the conclusion 1608 01:30:27,019 --> 01:30:29,522 that this was orchestrated and organized 1609 01:30:29,622 --> 01:30:33,927 by people in-under the command of MBS. 1610 01:30:34,027 --> 01:30:35,627 Mr. President, why are you siding 1611 01:30:35,668 --> 01:30:38,171 with the Saudis over your own intelligence community? 1612 01:30:38,271 --> 01:30:40,093 Because it's America first to me. 1613 01:30:40,193 --> 01:30:41,855 It's all about America first. 1614 01:30:41,955 --> 01:30:44,538 We're not gonna give up hundreds of billions of dollars 1615 01:30:44,638 --> 01:30:47,101 in orders and let Russia, China, 1616 01:30:47,201 --> 01:30:48,543 and everybody else have them. 1617 01:30:48,643 --> 01:30:50,345 It's all about, for me, very simple, 1618 01:30:50,445 --> 01:30:51,445 it's America first. 1619 01:30:57,412 --> 01:30:59,355 Saudi Arabia can't exist 1620 01:30:59,455 --> 01:31:00,836 without the United States. 1621 01:31:00,936 --> 01:31:04,561 Their security guarantor for decades 1622 01:31:04,661 --> 01:31:06,783 has been the United States. 1623 01:31:07,864 --> 01:31:10,007 The U.S. was in some way responsible 1624 01:31:10,107 --> 01:31:11,528 for this man's death, 1625 01:31:11,628 --> 01:31:13,170 because the sense of impunity 1626 01:31:13,270 --> 01:31:15,052 we give Mohammed bin Salman 1627 01:31:15,152 --> 01:31:17,094 with this red carpet treatment that he got 1628 01:31:17,194 --> 01:31:18,456 and the embrace from Trump 1629 01:31:18,556 --> 01:31:20,058 and nobody really pushing back, 1630 01:31:20,158 --> 01:31:22,220 I think he thought he could get away with anything, 1631 01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:23,902 and he was right. 1632 01:31:24,002 --> 01:31:26,265 And it's just disgusting to see him 1633 01:31:26,365 --> 01:31:29,388 kind of grinning and shaking hands with this guy 1634 01:31:29,488 --> 01:31:31,911 who just chopped up another human being. 1635 01:31:53,915 --> 01:31:56,218 Good afternoon, everyone. 1636 01:31:56,318 --> 01:31:57,619 This hearing for the Subcommittee 1637 01:31:57,719 --> 01:32:00,102 on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights, 1638 01:32:00,202 --> 01:32:03,226 and International Organizations will come to order. 1639 01:32:03,326 --> 01:32:04,606 I note that a quorum is present. 1640 01:32:06,169 --> 01:32:08,752 We have both political and economic reasons 1641 01:32:08,852 --> 01:32:11,395 to maintain a relationship with Saudi Arabia. 1642 01:32:11,495 --> 01:32:13,837 Saudi Arabia is a strategic ally, 1643 01:32:13,937 --> 01:32:17,121 and I do think that outweighs the death of one person. 1644 01:32:17,221 --> 01:32:18,803 Yes, it does. 1645 01:32:18,903 --> 01:32:20,885 So there's a paid political commercial 1646 01:32:20,985 --> 01:32:23,808 for Mohammed bin Salman, but, uh, you know, 1647 01:32:23,908 --> 01:32:26,251 I-I believe that, so any event, there you go. 1648 01:32:26,351 --> 01:32:28,353 I thought that needed to be said. 1649 01:32:28,954 --> 01:32:30,956 Ms. Cengiz. 1650 01:32:36,402 --> 01:32:39,566 Speaking Arabic 1651 01:33:12,042 --> 01:33:14,765 Oh, Jamal. 1652 01:33:21,773 --> 01:33:24,456 Speaking Arabic 1653 01:33:43,437 --> 01:33:47,381 The best justice for him is a young person 1654 01:33:47,481 --> 01:33:49,303 reading his writing, 1655 01:33:49,403 --> 01:33:51,105 knowing about him... 1656 01:33:54,129 --> 01:33:57,793 ...being sure that those that want him to be forgotten, 1657 01:33:57,893 --> 01:33:59,995 that they will not win. 1658 01:34:07,463 --> 01:34:11,508 Well, you know, Jamal was a friend and, uh... 1659 01:34:13,871 --> 01:34:15,933 ...America and the kingdom 1660 01:34:16,033 --> 01:34:19,136 have a toxic relationship, 1661 01:34:19,236 --> 01:34:22,100 and it poisons not only our own societies, 1662 01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:24,823 but it's spread all over the world. 1663 01:34:24,923 --> 01:34:27,105 The chaos, the wars... 1664 01:34:27,205 --> 01:34:29,748 America's had a big hand in that. 1665 01:34:29,848 --> 01:34:31,590 And Jamal's been in the middle of that 1666 01:34:31,690 --> 01:34:33,833 from his earliest days. 1667 01:34:33,933 --> 01:34:37,657 He embodied, in some ways, that relationship. 1668 01:34:38,538 --> 01:34:40,280 But this contradiction 1669 01:34:40,380 --> 01:34:44,805 became so nakedly obvious, you had to choose. 1670 01:34:44,905 --> 01:34:47,808 Which side are you on? 1671 01:34:53,234 --> 01:34:55,457 The revolution is over. 1672 01:34:55,557 --> 01:34:58,020 Its most important values... 1673 01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:01,664 Freedom, dignity, and the right to life... 1674 01:35:01,764 --> 01:35:04,787 Have fallen by the wayside. 1675 01:35:04,887 --> 01:35:07,831 The majority is unmoved by the sight of the dead 1676 01:35:07,931 --> 01:35:10,173 when they belong to the other side. 1677 01:35:12,736 --> 01:35:14,998 Divisions have even emerged 1678 01:35:15,098 --> 01:35:19,043 between the detained, the refugee, the cynic, 1679 01:35:19,143 --> 01:35:22,667 and the dead that were never celebrated as martyrs. 1680 01:35:24,389 --> 01:35:27,252 I can imagine a young man returning home, 1681 01:35:27,352 --> 01:35:29,615 exhausted and bloodied. 1682 01:35:29,715 --> 01:35:32,718 He weeps for his dead brethren. 1683 01:35:34,160 --> 01:35:37,744 Before going to bed after Thursday's dawn prayers, 1684 01:35:37,844 --> 01:35:40,787 the young man murmurs to himself, 1685 01:35:40,887 --> 01:35:44,031 "The revolution is not over yet." 1686 01:35:44,131 --> 01:35:47,314 The will of the people is still the law. 1687 01:35:47,414 --> 01:35:50,158 A new generation must take the lead 1688 01:35:50,258 --> 01:35:53,181 and look to the future, not the past. 1689 01:35:55,583 --> 01:35:58,847 One of the most beautiful things I have ever heard 1690 01:35:58,947 --> 01:36:02,291 is the call of the Prophet. 1691 01:36:02,391 --> 01:36:07,016 In the beginning, it is a call to freedom. 1692 01:36:07,116 --> 01:36:11,301 That dream of freedom is alive in us, 1693 01:36:11,401 --> 01:36:13,303 ready to emerge again 1694 01:36:13,403 --> 01:36:16,387 with the first sounds of emancipation. 1695 01:36:19,650 --> 01:36:24,696 >>>>oakislandtk<<<<< www.opensubtitles.org 125729

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