All language subtitles for Criminal.UK.S02E01.720p.NF.WEBRip.x264-GalaxyTV

Thanks again for all this,
especially on a Sunday.

What would you usually be doing?
Shopping or…

Oh, I don't know. Possibly.

Well, if we could just rattle through
some of these questions

then we know what we're doing
if we press more charges.

When… we press more charges.

The sooner we do,
the sooner you can get home.

And remember, you're not under
any kind of caution. Okay?

Mm-hmm.

Okay. Time is 15:42, Sunday, 8th March.

Present in the room,
Detective Constable Vanessa Warren and…

Julia Bryce.

If you could also give
your date of birth.

Twentieth January 1972.

Thank you. Now,
one of the things that's come up

since Philip's conviction
for the murder of Max Peeters

was the name Luca Passero.

Does that name mean
anything to you at all?

Yes.

It's okay. Just aim your answers at me.
The mic will pick it up.

So, you know that name? Yeah?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

And how is it that you know
that name, that individual?

Um, he was one of Philip's students.

Philip being your husband.

No.

Yes, well, we're separated.

So he was a pupil
of your former partner, Philip Bryce?

Correct. At Northgreen.

The English language school?

Correct.

Thank you.

It's okay. You're doing great.

I'd forgotten what it's like.

Talking to people like you.

Well, we're opening up
old wounds here, aren't we?

It's hard.

Julia, do you see Luca Passero
in any of the pictures?

On the end.

For the record, Ms. Bryce
has indicated Exhibit 1C.

You met Luca in person?

Yes.

At the language school?

No, at home.

Philip had one of his barbecues.
The one that Max Peeters was at.

The one that was mentioned
at the murder trial and…

Luca was there too.

The first time I met him. Shy boy.

Then after, when Max went missing,

or so people thought at the time…

Luca started to come over more and more.

So even after Max Peeters disappeared,

Luca would still come over
to see your husband?

- Ex-husband.
- Ex-husband. Sorry.

And the last time that you saw Luca?

Well…

In the days prior to Philip's arrest…

He went back to Italy, I think.

Malpensa?

Malpenso?

Is that it? Is that where he's from?

I really haven't…

Heard about him at all,
to be honest, then or since.

You have to remember, my husband
had been arrested for murder and…

Everything was in pieces.
I was… shattered.

Not as in tired. As in…

In pieces.

It's okay.

Why?

Julia, we've been contacted
by a magistrate in Milan.

They've been looking for Luca Passero.

Now, he did buy a plane ticket to Milan
on 28th September.

He also got one for the Gatwick Express,

but there's no evidence that he made
either of those journeys.

The Italian police don't think
that he ever came home.

Please, God, no.

Don't tell me he's killed another one.

What you can do here is,

you can help us
to get some justice for Luca Passero.

That's the aim. To check what you know
against what Philip's already told us.

- Does that make sense?
- Mm-hmm.

So… you've interviewed him
already? Philip?

Not me personally.
I don't do the big interviews.

I support, or I do the smaller ones.

What, like this, you mean?
With witnesses?

So, he's been charged
with this as well, has he, or…?

Not yet.

When will this nightmare ever end?

Besides everything else, Philip has
children from his first marriage.

Grandchildren.

It's the first thing I said when this
came out: People will know what he's done.

Friends, family,
people connected with their schools.

It's not just him who bears the brunt.

- Julia…
- Christ almighty!

I want you to focus.

Stick to the questions.

Now…

Philip stuck to what he'd said
in court about Max Peeters.

Said he'd had a sexual
relationship with him,

but that he did not kill him…

Then when we asked him about Luca,

he said that Luca
had never even visited the house.

Though he did say
that he had kissed Luca

at the college,
not long after Max's body was found,

in a sort of… sort of…

What did he say? Hang on.

"In a sort of passionate state of grief."

Said he'd, "liked Luca a lot,

and I was sad
that he'd returned to Italy."

Well, there you go.

Sorry?

He did go back to Italy.

But as for never visiting the house…

- Well, like I said, simply not true.
- Okay.

So there were three things
that Philip said

in his most recent statement
that we wanted to check.

The next one is to do with the jumper.

From Zara.

Yeah, you've half-answered me already.

Got a black Merino wool sweater
from Zara.

A medium.

I don't shop at Zara.

What about Philip?

Philip doesn't shop at Zara.

Look, I bought all his clothes.

After about two years of marriage,
around the time he… gave up,

I bought everything for him.

Not on his card,
on our shared account.

And not in a medium,
in an extra-large.

And certainly not in Zara.

Our thought was that
it might've been a present for someone.

Now, our third thing that we wanted
to check was your trip to Bristol.

The two of you.

Now, Philip said in his statement
that you went to Bristol together

on the 28th and 29th…

Of…?

September.

We have CCTV of your car there.

We have CCTV from the bottom of a road
called Gloucester Road on the Saturday,

and a place near Cabot Circus,
which is also in Bristol, on the Sunday.

Green Vauxhall Corsa,
second half of 2009.

Yeah.

So… you were there?

Yeah, yeah.
It's where my mother lives.

She's having her garden redone.

I was there on my own. Philip never came.
He never liked her.

He said she's… bad tempered.

So he's lying, then?

She is, but that's not her.
That's her… her insomnia.

Sorry?

So he's lying?

Yes, if that's what he's claiming,
then yes.

Are you married?

No.

Have a partner?

Well…

…if you ever do,

make sure you find out what your friends,
your parents, your mother,

most importantly…

What they really think of this person

you're planning on binding yourself to,
because they won't offer that up.

No, you have to force
that information out of them.

But on this one particular point,
more than anything else,

they have perspective,
they can stand back and…

Take it all in.

See this relationship for…

What it really is.

And if they sense
you're doing the wrong thing…

You need to make sure they tell you,

rather than be all British about it.

Otherwise, you'll end up like me,

sitting on patio chairs in Bristol…

With your mother giving you
hour after hour of I-told-you-so's,

all the while forgetting,
until now, she never said a thing.

You don't need me lecturing you.

No, you're all right.

On a Sunday!

Julia.

If you want to talk, talk.

It sounds like smart advice.

You're being kind.

If you do find the right man…

Then follow your heart.

I mean, that is…
That's my actual advice.

They don't all end up
strangling people with leather belts…

- Hey.
- …standing on the back of their necks,

throttling them all till there's not
a breath left in their bloody bodies.

Stop it. We're doing
really well here, me and you.

I'm not having you go back
over stuff that you don't need to.

It's not going to happen.

We'll get this done
and get it done right.

Okay, okay,
now let's just take a minute,

get ourselves together,
and then we can continue.

Thank you. Thank you.

I can't explain it down the phone.
I was hoping you might come here.

Yes. I'm aware what day it is.

If it wasn't important
I wouldn't be calling on a Sunday.

Thank you. Do you want
to give me a rough ETA or…

Fine.

Are you sure he's dead?

We're treating it that way.

But…

If there's no proof, then it strikes me…

His phone was switched off on the 28th.

He hasn't withdrawn any money
or anything from any shop,

hasn't posted anything on social media,
and he was on that all the time.

His life, it just…

Stopped.

Thanks for this.

- So?
- So, this is Julia.

Bryce's ex-wife.
DC Warren and I are...

Comparing her statement
against Philip's, yeah. And?

Well, DC Warren was going through
the list of points we were given.

That's all been going fine.

Then, Miss Bryce starts saying
this whole thing about how

being married to a killer is, well,

far from ideal.

Then at the end of her speech,

she mentions how her husband
was someone who strangled people.

Which he did.

Yes.

Yeah.

- Yes.
- Yeah.

He strangled Max Peeters
with a leather belt.

Yes, by standing on the back
of the neck and pulling upwards.

Yes. That's what happened.

Yes.

But some of the details she mentioned
are not details she should know.

They never came up in Philip's interview,
or at his trial.

That was only in the pathologist's report.

Which she's never seen?

Right, so Vanessa's clocked it, yeah?

So why haven't you told her?

The interview hasn't stopped
since it became a thing.

Then we need to stop it.

Do we?

- Yeah, we might need to caution her.
- But we also might not.

Nobody knows I've spotted
what I've spotted.

She trusts DC Warren,

and she's started speaking very freely,
in my view.

We can just let her
carry on incriminating herself.

Can't we?

I get it, it's Sunday.
I get it. But…

We are your team too, you know?

Yeah, I could explain it
down the phone, Tony,

but it might be one of those
where you're better off coming in.

What are we dealing with?

When did you first realize
that Philip was into his male students?

Well, when I did that…

That thing with his thumb.

While he was asleep, I'd get his phone,

put his thumb on it
so the lock would open,

and I'd read
all these WhatsApp messages to Max,

messages to Luca…

- Are you sure they were to Luca?
- Absolutely.

- We don't have any record of...
- No, I deleted them, all of them.

Without telling him.

So that when he went to send the next one
he'd find the others were gone.

Wifey's way of saying, "I'm onto you"

without actually having
to confront it in person.

And it made you angry?

No, I was…

Embarrassed for him
more than anything else.

The never-ending… flattery.

Mortifying.

And what did they say, the messages?

What you want is for more of these things
to come up in their conversation.

Other facts, known only to the killer.

Question is, are we allowed
to let this continue?

'Course we are.

But we now have reason to believe
she may be the killer.

Yes, but Vanessa doesn't know that,
so until she comes out, we're fine.

It's like that philosophy thing, isn't it?

If a tree falls in the woods
and there's no one there to hear it… No?

Does it make a sound?

Yeah.

They don't know what they don't know.
So let them get on with it.

That's what I said. If she knows
we're onto her she'll stop talking.

Here we go. Look.

"The killer, when using a leather belt,
pulled upwards and tightened from behind."

- You got that?
- Mm-hmm.

The fact killer "stood on the base
of the neck to gain purchase."

She said that.

Did she?

She said "stood on their neck."

Okay.

And this… Rohypnol?

"Rohypnol was ingested by Max Peeters
at, or prior to strangulation."

That hasn't been disclosed?

Hang on.
Why would she have had Rohypnol?

How are you feeling?

Want to stop,
get a cup of tea, take a break?

There's only so much more
I can help you with.

May as well press on till the end,

providing this is useful to you
in some way.

No, it's great.

You don't say!

Let's make triple sure.

So we've got Philip Bryce,

on the brink of being charged
for his second murder,

but we're now thinking
not only is he innocent,

he might not have committed
the first one either?

The one he was sent down for in November?

Yes.

Then we've got his wife in with Vanessa,
accidentally confessing to all of this,

and all without Vanessa realizing
that's what's going on?

- Yeah.
- And yet…

Vanessa's actually doing
a pretty great job?

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I thought that's
what you said on the phone.

We just got to make sure
that we can use what she's saying.

If she doesn't know
she's being questioned for murder…

She's not being questioned for murder.
That's not the call.

Not until I've made it.

Did Luca tell you
that he was going back to Italy?

No, Philip told me.

How did Philip feel about that,
can you remember?

He seemed, um…

Surprisingly upset.

That was the impression he gave.

Although if Philip wanted everyone
to think Luca was going back to Italy,

if that were some form of distraction
like I think you're suggesting, then…

Maybe his reaction was just an act.

Oh…

Christ, I don't want to think like this.
Like him.

It's okay, we're nearly done.

The minute they break, I want you
cueing up the relevant bits of the tape.

It's not that I don't believe you, but we
need to double-check these contradictions.

Then we can arrest her, at least
for the murder of Luca Passero.

That'll buy us time
to work out what to do about Philip

and the murder of Max Peeters.

Why, Julia, if Philip liked these guys,
would he have killed them?

Because he was tortured.

The poor man chased and chased, and…

None of these beautiful young boys
ever wanted to know.

Story of his life, so he ended up…

He said all this to me once.

In the house in Dorset
where we sometimes go. Let it all out.

"It's bad enough I feel
the things that I feel,

but they barely even look."

…he said to me, in this great…

Outpouring of self-pity.

To which I said…

"Well…

How do you think I feel?"

Rejection. That's my theory.

"If I can't have them, no one can."

This…

This has all been very helpful.

Thank you.

You've been honest…

Brave…

It's just a shame it's a Sunday and there
aren't more people here to see it.

Is there anything else that
you want to tell me about Luca?

Right, well, then I'll quickly summarize
and you're free to go.

Okay.

You met Luca at the house.

Yes.

You were alone in Bristol
on 28th and 29th September.

Yes.

- Philip wasn't there.
- No.

This is something your mother can confirm?

Correct.

Actually,

if it helps,

I always go into Boots at Cribbs Causeway

on the way to see Mum,
pick up her pills.

And that will have CCTV and…

Philip won't be on that.

She's full-on, but she's not stupid.

In rubbishing his alibi,
she's also creating her own.

Wow.

Okay, interview ends at 17:32.

I'll walk you back down.

Jamie.

I won't come to court, just so you know.

As a witness, yes,
but not every day. I just can't.

I get that.

I need this to be over for me.

Vanessa?

Can we just hold on a minute?

Look, I bought all his clothes.

After about two years of marriage,
around the time he…

Then follow your heart. I mean, that…

That is my actual advice.

This is it.

They don't all end up
strangling people with leather belts…

Standing on the back of their necks,

throttling them all till there's not
a breath left in their bloody bodies.

That's enough.

17:38. That's the time
we put in the notes.

This is me, making the call.

Julia Bryce.

I'm arresting you
for the murder of Luca Passero.

You do not have to say anything but it may
harm your defense if you do not mention…

But I've just been questioned.

What is this? You said it was informal.

Anything you say may be
given in evidence, is that clear?

No, it's not clear.
It's not clear at all.

She mentioned details only the killer
would know. More than one.

Kyle spotted it.

The belt being leather.

Foot on the back of the neck.

The angle.

I'm sorry, Guv. Didn't clock it.

Well, that's what
the observation room's for, isn't it?

- What you did was great.
- Yeah.

If we'd have stopped it,
we'd have to charge her.

So we just let you continue
while we were double-checking.

She was chatting for England,

which is credit to you,
the relationship you had with her.

She said things about the Peeters murder
only the killer would know,

and if she killed Peeters,

there's a high likelihood
that she killed Luca.

So we've got a double murderer
on our hands.

Serial killer.

No, a serial killer needs three victims,

killed over a period
greater than 30 days.

He's right.

You mean less than 30 days?

No, that's a spree killer.

He's right.

So what happens now?

We bring her back tomorrow.

We hit her with the facts.

Push for a confession.

So who do we want doing the interview?

Well, we want to cash in
on all that lovely rapport.

We want Vanessa.

But we'll have everyone in, please.
Usual time.

One thing I look forward to on a Sunday
is chocolate after five-a-side.

I never got to play five-a-side
but I've decided that's not my fault,

so therefore…

Why not treat myself to a Galaxy, anyway?

And they say Keith Richards
is rock and roll!

It's the biggest case we've ever done.

Well, it's up there anyway.

Go on, then. What's up?

I just…

Feel like I was the only one
who wasn't in on it.

That's what I like, being in on things.

That's my thing.

Now everyone's acting like I've been given
this big break, this interview,

but it don't work like that for me.

No, you've got her cornered
on double murder.

No, we have.

All of us.

I just want to be part of the team.

I'm not ambitious.

But you're not allowed to say that
you're not ambitious, not these days.

Do you want me to do it?

I'll look like I've bottled it.

Or we could do it together.

That'll look like
I've bottled it and I can't admit it.

Maybe I am bottling it.

I've never done this before.

I've never asked for it either.

What does she mean about rapport, anyway?
There'll be none left.

She'll think I was trying to trap her,
which I wasn't.

Well…

I'm glad someone's happy.

Well, I am happy.

I'm always the one getting advice
from you, aren't I?

Finally it's my go.

Right…

First, not only can you do it,
you'll do it brilliantly.

Second, as to whether
you want to do it or not…

Get over yourself.
It's not an invitation, it's an order.

And those young men and their families
could do with this,

so you get in there
and you show us how talented you are,

and if you don't want to do it next time,
then that's a different story.

- Is that it?
- That's the thrust of it. Yeah.

Yeah, it sounded good. Convincing.
Still bricking it, though, but thank you.

No problem.

Don't think I've forgotten, by the way.

What did she say?

Oh, no. This little conversation
we're having, it's not about me.

- Tony!
- No, it's about you.

You did ask her, didn't you?

Well, you were there. You saw me.

And?

This way, please.

- Any tea, coffee?
- Let's just get on with this.

Interview commences
at 9:47 a.m. on 9th March.

Present in the room,
Detective Constable Warren and…

Nasreen Shah, solicitor for Ms. Bryce.

And?

I'm not talking to you.

Julia Bryce.

Julia, as you know,

we've decided to arrest you
for the murder of Luca Passero,

that is, after my colleagues reviewed
some of the things that you mentioned

in the witness interview
that you gave yesterday.

What I'd like to do now is
go back ov…

Go over, sorry…

Some of those details with you now.

While you try to find your place there,

I think we should take a moment
to check protocol here.

You brought my client in here yesterday
without caution,

and yet within minutes
of her leaving this room,

you're springing murder charges on her.

Yes, but like I said…

You must be certain
you know what you're doing here,

positive that what was said yesterday
can be used in court,

and that it doesn't undermine
what gets said in here today,

because if it does, you watch me…

I'll take it,

and I'll use it
to make this whole thing go away.

It's Vanessa, isn't it?

Do you understand
where I'm coming from, Vanessa?

It's like one of
those football matches, isn't it?

Where your team
can't get a kick at the ball.

You can relate to that, can you?

See,
I'd hate to false start, and you…

You seem a bit nervous to me, so…

I am a bit nervous.

But not for the reasons
you're talking about.

We've checked all that,
followed all the guidelines.

The decision to arrest
was made after the interview

as they wanted to check the tape.

Now, I'm nervous because
even with all this evidence,

I'll come up against a woman
who won't confess.

'Cause then we'll go to trial,
and like she says herself,

there's a load of stress and anxiety
that comes with a trial.

Those are tough things to sit through.

So that's what I'm concerned about,
Nasreen.

It is Nasreen, isn't it?

Julia…

You said yesterday

that Philip used a leather belt
to strangle all his victims.

- Did I?
- Yes.

16:12, you said exactly that.

You also said
that he was strangled from behind.

Um, I don't think so.

You don't remember saying it
or you don't remember doing it?

You also said

that the killer ended up
standing on the back of their necks.

How do you know all these things?

You tell me.

I don't know how you know.
I am asking you.

Philip… would have told me.

Really? When?

Afterwards.

But when, afterwards?

After his arrest.

So Philip told you that he'd killed
Max Peeters after his arrest?

Yeah.

We've checked all the contact
you've had with Philip,

subsequent to his arrest,
and there's nothing.

You haven't called or messaged him since.
He hasn't called or messaged you either.

He has one call to a 19-year-old man
called Alvaro who works near Paddington.

And this Alvaro guy, he's not come
into contact with you either.

Luckily, I reckon.

For Alvaro.

So once again…

How did you know?

Oh, no, no. Sorry.

Um…

The truth is, yes…

He did tell me, but…

He told me beforehand.

Before it happened?

It's nonsense.

It's nonsense that's hard to disprove.

I didn't take it seriously,
otherwise I would have…

Said something, warned someone.

If I'd thought that,
that would have been my moral obligation.

But you can't blame yourself. You mustn't.
My therapist has said this to me.

She said…

I have to keep reminding myself
that it was him…

Not me.

Philip told you that he was going
to murder Max Peeters?

You then forgot he'd told you that?

And you're only just remembering it now?

- That's what you want me to believe?
- No.

No. Please, believe what you want.
I'm just…

Telling you what he said.

It's funny, that.

You've no idea that you know something,
and then suddenly…

- There it is.
- Exactly.

Let me give you another example.

When I got home last night
I was trying to take my mind off all this.

I did a load of things.

I rang Mum.

Made food I didn't eat.
And watched telly I didn't watch.

'Cause you see, with me, I…

I made this promise to myself that
I wouldn't take the work home with me,

because it's ruined things in the past.

Relationships.

That kind of thing.

Last night, I could…

I could feel it all building again.
The stress.

I could feel my body telling me,

"You're not sleeping tonight,
it's not going to happen."

But then I remembered something
that you said in here about your mum,

and her insomnia,
and the medicine that she takes,

and I remembered I'd had an ex like that.

He couldn't sleep either.

So I'm in the bathroom
and I'm rooting around,

to see if I've still got anything,
and I do.

A small bottle of pills
that he used to take.

So I take it too.

Do you know what?

I'm in bed and within five minutes,

as if by magic,

I'm gone.

So I'm up this morning, fresh as,

and I'm looking at the pills thinking,
"They're so good, they're dangerous."

And I'm reading the ingredients.

Flunitrazepam. That's what it's called.

"That's funny," I thought.

"Flunitrazepam."

Flunitrazepam.

"I know that word, and I don't know why."

Then that thing that's just happened
to you, happened to me.

You've no idea that you know,

and then suddenly…

There it is.

Flunitrazepam is in your file.

Flunitrazepam is Rohypnol.

Rohypnol was found
in Max Peeters' body.

So my only question is…

Why?

Maybe he was taking it.

Not in this quantity.

Or…

Given it.

By?

By Philip.

Mmm.

Philip was never prescribed it.

Maybe Philip…

Took it from my bag.

But it wasn't in your bag.

Was it?

You pick it up on the way
to Bristol to see your mother.

There'd be no reason
for you to bring it back with you.

Everyone through there

was convinced it was you last night.

I was, too.

I just kept wondering how.

Even if you could get the belt
around their necks,

even if you did know the details,

these are fully grown men,
they would have fought.

Now we know, don't we?

Here.

Put enough of that…

In their system,
and as if by magic, they are gone.

Want to keep going?

You've no idea what I've been through.

Want to talk about the belt?

Why, after Philip's arrest,

did you buy a men's
leather belt from M&S?

And not on the shared account.

On your own.

Bit like what Philip does
when he goes to Zara

and he's buying something
he's hoping to hide.

Was it because your fingerprints
were on the first belt?

The one you used to strangle Max Peeters?

Did Luca take Flunitrazepam too?

Was it really that these men
didn't want to know Philip?

Or was it that Philip
never wanted to know you?

Stop.

That he didn't know the person
that you'd become?

- Stop.
- I mean, I get it.

Stop.

That's a life sentence in itself.

I've got an idea.

Let's take five minutes.

Get ourselves together.

Then you can come back

and you can tell me what happened.

You can tell me
how you bought Luca's plane ticket.

Tell me where to find Luca's body

for his mum and dad
after all these months.

'Cause you know what they say, don't ya?

It's not just you who bears the brunt.

My mother said…

"If you had to kill anyone…"

He never gave us a chance.

He withheld it.

We never got to have anything.

So he knows all about it.

Philip knows that you killed them?

Deep down, he knows.

And he knows it was because of him.

Why do you think in all this time
he's never pointed the finger at me?

If you can't have him…

No one can.

Interview suspended at 10:01.

Right.

Excellent. Now it's all about
drawing out the definitive statements.

"Yes, I killed him."
"Yes, the pills were mine".

Belt and braces, but…

I'm impressed.

Thank you, ma'am.

We should get you doing more of these.
Not just supporting, taking the lead.

- Oh, I...
- I could put you in with Tony.

I think I'm okay, to be honest.

You and me could partner.

No.

No, thank you.

Well, we don't need
to talk about it now. It's…

It's just…

It's a lot of work to take on, that's all,

and if I take it on, I'll take it home.

And I don't want that.

Oh. Is everything okay?

Everything's great, ma'am.

Just trying to keep it that way.

- Let's talk about this tomorrow.
- I'm not in tomorrow.

Tomorrow's Tuesday.

I worked Sunday, remember?

Yeah.

I forgot.

Interview resumes at 10:09.

Present in the room,
Detective Constable Vanessa Warren…