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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:25,725 --> 00:00:28,794 Michael: I was in my office at work 2 00:00:28,896 --> 00:00:32,130 and I got a call from an international number. 3 00:00:32,232 --> 00:00:33,999 Through the last three years, 4 00:00:34,101 --> 00:00:36,902 when it was an international call, I'd answer it. 5 00:00:37,004 --> 00:00:38,904 It was a reporter in Dublin 6 00:00:41,008 --> 00:00:43,541 who wanted a reaction to the story. 7 00:00:43,643 --> 00:00:46,444 I said, "Reaction for what?" 8 00:00:46,546 --> 00:00:50,015 They were really caught back by that question, obviously. 9 00:00:50,117 --> 00:00:54,652 And they said, "I'll call you back in five minutes." 10 00:00:54,754 --> 00:01:00,258 And so then I went online and saw the picture. 11 00:01:05,632 --> 00:01:08,399 It's not the way you want to find out. 12 00:01:08,501 --> 00:01:10,101 I never, ever imagined 13 00:01:10,204 --> 00:01:14,873 that it would end in that fashion, right? 14 00:01:17,677 --> 00:01:20,745 For days that first week, 15 00:01:20,848 --> 00:01:23,882 I just would constantly see that image and... 16 00:01:26,086 --> 00:01:28,686 It's been tough. 17 00:01:28,788 --> 00:01:31,857 You go through those emotional swings. 18 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,328 "Why the hell did you go back that second time?" 19 00:01:36,429 --> 00:01:38,363 But I keep coming back to the same answer. 20 00:02:07,861 --> 00:02:09,627 Host: Name the sports newspaper 21 00:02:09,729 --> 00:02:12,197 that hit US newsstands in 1990. 22 00:02:12,299 --> 00:02:13,464 - ( buzzer sounds ) - James? 23 00:02:13,566 --> 00:02:15,566 - "The National." - It was. 24 00:02:57,777 --> 00:02:59,144 Man: Ladies and gentlemen, 25 00:02:59,246 --> 00:03:00,545 please help me welcome Mr. James Foley. 26 00:03:00,647 --> 00:03:03,982 ( applause ) 27 00:03:07,387 --> 00:03:09,654 Thanks for that generous-- 28 00:03:09,756 --> 00:03:12,157 - overly generous... - ( laughter ) 29 00:03:12,259 --> 00:03:13,891 ...introduction. 30 00:03:13,994 --> 00:03:16,727 I'm definitely not a hero 31 00:03:16,830 --> 00:03:18,263 or noble or anything. 32 00:03:18,365 --> 00:03:21,833 I'm just trying to do my woror 33 00:03:21,935 --> 00:03:24,769 and got into a little bit of trouble. 34 00:03:24,871 --> 00:03:29,441 ( men chanting ) 35 00:03:29,542 --> 00:03:33,111 I arrived in Benghazi in mid-March, 36 00:03:33,213 --> 00:03:34,446 and the night I arrived, 37 00:03:34,547 --> 00:03:36,814 I heard nothing but bombs and gunfire. 38 00:03:36,916 --> 00:03:38,683 ( men whooping ) 39 00:03:38,785 --> 00:03:40,551 I wondered, "What's going on?" 40 00:03:40,653 --> 00:03:43,488 Another journalist said, "The bombs, that's gelatina. 41 00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:45,790 That's how they fish." 42 00:03:45,892 --> 00:03:47,359 ( laughter ) 43 00:03:47,461 --> 00:03:48,960 Blow the fish up. 44 00:03:49,062 --> 00:03:50,495 "And the gunfire? 45 00:03:50,597 --> 00:03:52,230 No, that's celebratory gunfire." 46 00:03:52,332 --> 00:03:55,467 ( gunfire ) 47 00:03:55,568 --> 00:03:57,335 Jim: If Gaddafi comes to Benghazi, 48 00:03:57,404 --> 00:03:59,871 are you guys prepared to fight? 49 00:04:14,754 --> 00:04:16,121 Diane: I think in some ways 50 00:04:16,223 --> 00:04:18,789 Libya was a turning point for Jim. 51 00:04:18,892 --> 00:04:20,591 I was starting to see 52 00:04:20,693 --> 00:04:22,527 his trying to figure out 53 00:04:22,629 --> 00:04:24,695 where he belonged in the world. 54 00:04:24,797 --> 00:04:26,998 He tried the Teach for America, 55 00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:31,336 and then Chicago he worked at the Cook County Jail. 56 00:04:31,438 --> 00:04:33,571 He anguished over his teaching. 57 00:04:33,673 --> 00:04:35,973 He didn't think he was a good enough teacher. 58 00:04:36,076 --> 00:04:39,610 He wanted to write and he loved people 59 00:04:39,712 --> 00:04:40,978 and liked to interact, 60 00:04:41,081 --> 00:04:42,347 tell people's stories. 61 00:04:42,449 --> 00:04:44,349 So when Jim decided he wanted to go 62 00:04:44,451 --> 00:04:46,884 into journalism from teaching, 63 00:04:46,986 --> 00:04:49,320 at first we thought that would be good. 64 00:04:49,423 --> 00:04:51,389 "Maybe that'll be a better fit, Jim." 65 00:04:51,491 --> 00:04:55,960 But when he decided to do conflict journalism, 66 00:04:56,063 --> 00:04:57,795 that was a whole different deal. 67 00:04:57,897 --> 00:05:00,432 Well, he didn't exactly tell us. 68 00:05:00,534 --> 00:05:01,533 ( laughs ) 69 00:05:01,634 --> 00:05:04,869 He graduated from Medill 70 00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:07,372 and we said, "Jim, what are you going to do?" 71 00:05:07,474 --> 00:05:09,307 And he said, "Well, I'm working on it." 72 00:05:09,409 --> 00:05:13,144 The next thing we knew, he was going to go to Iraq 73 00:05:13,246 --> 00:05:15,513 embedded with the Indiana National Guard. 74 00:05:18,785 --> 00:05:22,420 "Well, I guess I'm a conflict journalist at this point." 75 00:05:22,522 --> 00:05:24,956 So that's how we found out. 76 00:05:25,058 --> 00:05:27,825 ( gunfire ) 77 00:05:27,927 --> 00:05:29,561 Jim: It's an all-out sprint, 78 00:05:29,662 --> 00:05:32,197 an exhilarating and dangerous run for cover. 79 00:05:32,299 --> 00:05:33,898 You got him? 80 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,568 John Jr.: When Jim started the journalism path, 81 00:05:36,669 --> 00:05:42,207 we did have some heated discussions on views 82 00:05:42,309 --> 00:05:44,075 and the military and whatnot. 83 00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:47,979 My views are a little bit more conservative than Jim's. 84 00:05:48,081 --> 00:05:51,382 I would say a little bit more liberal. 85 00:05:51,485 --> 00:05:53,184 But when he did his embed, 86 00:05:53,286 --> 00:05:57,489 I think, is where we came closer together. 87 00:05:57,591 --> 00:05:59,090 Jim: As soon as the shooting died down, 88 00:05:59,192 --> 00:06:02,227 the platoon discovered a body limp on the roof. 89 00:06:04,964 --> 00:06:07,031 Do they know who the guy is? 90 00:06:07,134 --> 00:06:09,134 Yes. 91 00:06:09,236 --> 00:06:10,401 His family members. 92 00:06:10,504 --> 00:06:12,203 - These are the family? - Yeah. 93 00:06:22,015 --> 00:06:25,183 John, Jr.: Then he came back to my house and he told me-- 94 00:06:25,285 --> 00:06:29,621 he was like, "John, I'm thinking about going to Libya." 95 00:06:32,792 --> 00:06:35,660 I'm like, "Jim, that's a horrible idea. 96 00:06:35,762 --> 00:06:39,964 That is absolutely a horrible idea. 97 00:06:40,066 --> 00:06:45,303 If you go over there, no one's coming for you. 98 00:06:45,405 --> 00:06:48,039 Why would you put your life in danger? 99 00:06:48,141 --> 00:06:50,074 We're dropping bombs over there. 100 00:06:50,177 --> 00:06:52,743 And God forbid if you go over there 101 00:06:52,845 --> 00:06:56,247 and we accidentally kill you." 102 00:06:56,349 --> 00:07:00,251 I mean, why? 103 00:07:00,353 --> 00:07:02,420 Why? 104 00:07:02,522 --> 00:07:05,790 ( chanting ) 105 00:07:05,892 --> 00:07:07,625 Jim: Libya was very exciting as a journalist 106 00:07:07,727 --> 00:07:10,061 because you had this chance to talk directly to people, 107 00:07:10,163 --> 00:07:11,329 to see exactly what was going on. 108 00:07:11,431 --> 00:07:13,665 ( chanting ) 109 00:07:13,766 --> 00:07:15,266 There were no US soldiers anymore. 110 00:07:15,368 --> 00:07:17,101 No organized army anymore telling you 111 00:07:17,204 --> 00:07:18,369 what you should and shouldn't do. 112 00:07:18,471 --> 00:07:19,737 ( gunshots ) 113 00:07:19,839 --> 00:07:22,307 But it was also extremely dangerous. 114 00:07:22,409 --> 00:07:24,909 - ( shouting ) - ( gunfire ) 115 00:07:25,011 --> 00:07:26,977 I was actually talking to one of my buddies 116 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,779 boasting about my brother Jim 117 00:07:28,915 --> 00:07:30,881 and how he's this journalist 118 00:07:30,983 --> 00:07:34,285 and is super crazy, but badass at the same time. 119 00:07:34,387 --> 00:07:36,987 I was like, "Yeah, my brother's a badass. 120 00:07:37,090 --> 00:07:38,789 He's crazy. He's awesome." 121 00:07:38,891 --> 00:07:40,525 I also was very naive myself. 122 00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:42,159 I didn't know exactly what that would mean. 123 00:07:42,262 --> 00:07:43,561 I didn't know he was actually 124 00:07:43,663 --> 00:07:45,697 going to be immersed in actual crossfire. 125 00:07:45,798 --> 00:07:47,599 - ( gunfire ) - There's snipers in this building 126 00:07:47,701 --> 00:07:50,000 about one kilometer away. 127 00:07:50,103 --> 00:07:51,502 The group decided to go in. 128 00:07:51,605 --> 00:07:54,239 Heavy fighting. 129 00:07:54,341 --> 00:07:56,441 Heavy casualties. About 30 wounded, 130 00:07:56,543 --> 00:07:59,510 two dead as of this morning. 131 00:08:01,114 --> 00:08:02,380 Tom: There's one video 132 00:08:02,482 --> 00:08:04,081 that always stands out to me. 133 00:08:04,183 --> 00:08:07,552 It's when he's standing in the square. 134 00:08:07,654 --> 00:08:10,355 There does seem to be a strong sense 135 00:08:10,457 --> 00:08:11,989 that they won't give up the fight. 136 00:08:12,091 --> 00:08:14,959 And that they are a force of young fighting men. 137 00:08:15,061 --> 00:08:16,527 Although unorganized, 138 00:08:16,630 --> 00:08:20,498 there's plenty of will to hold out here. 139 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,099 How does my guy know this stuff? 140 00:08:22,201 --> 00:08:23,735 How does Jim Foley-- 141 00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:26,738 he's just my meathead friend, you know? 142 00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:31,376 It was so foreign to me in terms of an experience. 143 00:08:31,478 --> 00:08:33,444 I'm like, "How do you get into Libya? 144 00:08:33,546 --> 00:08:36,080 You're a freelancer? Who wants this? 145 00:08:36,182 --> 00:08:37,982 Are you getting paid?" 146 00:08:38,084 --> 00:08:40,385 This is Jim Foley reporting from downtown Benghazi, 147 00:08:40,487 --> 00:08:43,354 Revolutionary Square, "Global Post." 148 00:08:45,191 --> 00:08:48,393 Phil: Jim was there at the early stage 149 00:08:48,495 --> 00:08:49,827 of this movement of there being 150 00:08:49,929 --> 00:08:53,164 more freelancers in conflict areas. 151 00:08:54,734 --> 00:08:57,702 The world has changed so much 152 00:08:57,804 --> 00:08:59,203 in terms of digital publishing 153 00:08:59,306 --> 00:09:03,207 and newspapers started to eliminate things 154 00:09:03,310 --> 00:09:05,910 that they didn't see as essential. 155 00:09:06,012 --> 00:09:09,380 International coverage dwindled down to very little, 156 00:09:09,482 --> 00:09:12,883 so we saw an opportunity to fill that void 157 00:09:12,985 --> 00:09:16,387 and we needed to work with freelancers. 158 00:09:16,489 --> 00:09:18,556 Clare: Freelancers decide to work together 159 00:09:18,658 --> 00:09:23,695 just on the basis of this initial quick-read chemistry. 160 00:09:23,797 --> 00:09:28,098 I saw this new guy who I hadn't met before. 161 00:09:28,201 --> 00:09:30,435 He looked friendly enough, so I said, "Hey, what's up?" 162 00:09:30,537 --> 00:09:34,071 He said, "Not much. Going to the frontline." 163 00:09:34,173 --> 00:09:36,841 He's heard a lot about Libya 164 00:09:36,943 --> 00:09:39,977 and the fact that it was very cheap to work. 165 00:09:40,079 --> 00:09:44,148 Rebels and protestors were eager to show us their side of the story. 166 00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:46,584 They were driving us all over for free. 167 00:09:46,686 --> 00:09:50,221 They were translating for us for free. 168 00:09:50,323 --> 00:09:53,491 Many of us never really experienced the luxury 169 00:09:53,593 --> 00:09:55,893 of journalism in its heyday. 170 00:09:55,995 --> 00:09:59,364 What we do is journalism on a shoestring budget. 171 00:09:59,466 --> 00:10:03,501 So we've had to be a lot more resourceful in a way 172 00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:06,003 and just more street savvy. 173 00:10:06,105 --> 00:10:09,707 I think, in a sense, the way we all got to know each other 174 00:10:09,809 --> 00:10:12,543 was the Africa Hotel in Benghazi. 175 00:10:12,645 --> 00:10:15,680 It was the cheapest hotel, and the crappiest, 176 00:10:15,782 --> 00:10:17,348 and we were all staying there. 177 00:10:24,758 --> 00:10:27,792 I'd seen Jim talking to a few other journalists, 178 00:10:27,894 --> 00:10:31,095 and he was just really friendly with everybody. 179 00:10:31,197 --> 00:10:33,030 It was unusual in a place like that. 180 00:10:33,132 --> 00:10:35,900 There's still an edge of competitiveness in that environment, 181 00:10:36,002 --> 00:10:38,903 whereas Jim was just like, "Yeah, whatever." 182 00:10:39,005 --> 00:10:41,205 He gave off a really good first impression, 183 00:10:41,307 --> 00:10:44,241 and it helps that he's a super good-looking guy. 184 00:10:44,343 --> 00:10:47,678 I was just like, "Who is this guy? Who are you?" 185 00:10:50,750 --> 00:10:55,119 There wasn't anything mundane about the man whatsoever. 186 00:10:55,221 --> 00:10:57,988 He never really projected himself onto a situation 187 00:10:58,090 --> 00:11:01,992 and he dealt well with people. 188 00:11:02,094 --> 00:11:04,161 Jim: Who are the Libyan rebels 189 00:11:04,263 --> 00:11:06,697 determined to overthrow 42 years of dictatorship? 190 00:11:12,639 --> 00:11:14,038 - Offshore welder. - Platform, yes. 191 00:11:14,140 --> 00:11:16,574 Okay. Dangerous job. 192 00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:18,075 ( laughs ) 193 00:11:18,177 --> 00:11:19,844 Jim: They're brave as individuals, 194 00:11:19,946 --> 00:11:22,914 but many show a dangerous lack of weapons training. 195 00:11:24,851 --> 00:11:26,417 Clare: There were so many freelancers 196 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:28,319 who came in at that point in time 197 00:11:28,421 --> 00:11:31,288 who were so new, Jim and I among them, 198 00:11:31,390 --> 00:11:34,759 and I found out only later that there were a number 199 00:11:34,861 --> 00:11:37,528 of much more experienced photojournalists 200 00:11:37,597 --> 00:11:40,130 who had made one or two trips to the frontline 201 00:11:40,232 --> 00:11:43,167 and said, "Fuck it. This is way too dangerous." 202 00:11:46,005 --> 00:11:48,205 ( Manu speaking ) 203 00:12:26,278 --> 00:12:28,145 Jim had a high tolerance for danger. 204 00:12:28,247 --> 00:12:31,115 - ( explosion ) - Jim: Shit. 205 00:12:31,217 --> 00:12:34,685 Sure, he was drawn to that. All of us are, in a way. 206 00:12:34,787 --> 00:12:36,320 He was cool as a cucumber as well, 207 00:12:36,422 --> 00:12:40,591 wearing this little tiny vest he used to wear. 208 00:12:40,693 --> 00:12:43,027 Clare: The fact that he stayed so calm 209 00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:47,297 made it easy to feel calm in that situation. 210 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,800 But, of course, sometimes I was just like, 211 00:12:49,903 --> 00:12:52,136 "That's crazy. I'm not going there with you." 212 00:12:55,341 --> 00:12:57,074 Jim: I would come back to Benghazi 213 00:12:57,176 --> 00:12:59,143 and there was stuff going on there. 214 00:12:59,245 --> 00:13:00,878 There was families 215 00:13:00,980 --> 00:13:03,514 and they were out there in the protests, 216 00:13:03,616 --> 00:13:06,450 and they were out there maybe handling medical supplies, 217 00:13:06,553 --> 00:13:08,653 which is probably more important 218 00:13:08,755 --> 00:13:10,655 to what this revolutionary movement was. 219 00:13:10,757 --> 00:13:14,091 But then being called out to that frontline again 220 00:13:14,193 --> 00:13:18,095 like some kind of siren song... 221 00:13:21,534 --> 00:13:23,768 It was one of those mornings where we decided 222 00:13:23,870 --> 00:13:25,770 we were gonna get out there early. 223 00:13:25,872 --> 00:13:27,404 We wanted to get a fresh look at the frontlines. 224 00:13:27,506 --> 00:13:29,640 It was myself, Clare Gillis, 225 00:13:29,742 --> 00:13:32,043 Manu Brabo, and Anton Hammerl, 226 00:13:32,144 --> 00:13:33,945 a South African photojournalist. 227 00:13:34,047 --> 00:13:36,080 - Meet my friend! - Anton. 228 00:13:36,148 --> 00:13:37,715 Anton! 229 00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:39,850 Jim: And what it was, really, was just a highway, 230 00:13:39,953 --> 00:13:42,086 a coastal highway going all across Libya. 231 00:13:42,188 --> 00:13:44,455 And this is where the battle was going on. 232 00:13:44,557 --> 00:13:48,059 So it was kind of like a Mad Max type war. 233 00:13:49,963 --> 00:13:52,396 This was something common that some reporters did. 234 00:13:52,498 --> 00:13:54,465 Freelancers like myself who didn't have big budgets, 235 00:13:54,567 --> 00:13:56,767 we'd jump in with the rebels. 236 00:13:56,869 --> 00:14:00,304 It was at your own risk if you wanted to go further or not. 237 00:14:02,508 --> 00:14:05,710 We got to the point where we saw another group of rebels 238 00:14:05,812 --> 00:14:09,013 saying Gaddafi forces are 300 meters away. 239 00:14:09,115 --> 00:14:10,380 And myself, looking at Clare, 240 00:14:10,483 --> 00:14:12,449 like, "That's impossible." 241 00:14:12,551 --> 00:14:15,486 I remember Anton turning to me 242 00:14:15,588 --> 00:14:18,255 and saying, "Hey, this isn't safe." 243 00:14:18,357 --> 00:14:21,692 But we didn't turn around. 244 00:14:21,794 --> 00:14:25,162 We said, "Let's get off the road anyways." 245 00:14:25,264 --> 00:14:27,231 That was the exact wrong thing to do. 246 00:14:27,333 --> 00:14:31,836 Two heavily armed Gaddafi pickup trucks 247 00:14:31,938 --> 00:14:34,538 came over that rise firing. 248 00:14:36,609 --> 00:14:37,942 I remember so clearly 249 00:14:38,044 --> 00:14:40,745 the sound of it, the volume of it, 250 00:14:40,847 --> 00:14:44,749 the sound of something heating metal. 251 00:14:44,851 --> 00:14:47,284 And I remember hoping against hope 252 00:14:47,386 --> 00:14:50,154 that there would be some kind of out out of this, 253 00:14:50,256 --> 00:14:53,724 there was some kind of trapdoor in time. 254 00:14:57,697 --> 00:15:00,364 I crawled back to the sand dune. 255 00:15:00,466 --> 00:15:02,700 Anton was at the other sand dune in front of me. 256 00:15:02,802 --> 00:15:04,635 I heard him call for help. 257 00:15:06,438 --> 00:15:09,406 It appeared he was cut across the midsection with AK fire, 258 00:15:09,508 --> 00:15:11,475 and there was a serious amount of blood. 259 00:15:11,577 --> 00:15:12,910 He had already lost consciousness 260 00:15:13,012 --> 00:15:14,611 and probably already died. 261 00:15:19,351 --> 00:15:21,852 A group of young soldiers approached me 262 00:15:21,954 --> 00:15:24,822 and we were thrown in the back of a truck. 263 00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:28,726 I remember getting photographed with a cell phone 264 00:15:28,828 --> 00:15:32,797 and thinking this is where they find all these photographs 265 00:15:32,899 --> 00:15:35,900 that are evidence of war crimes someday, 266 00:15:35,968 --> 00:15:38,435 and realizing this is me now. 267 00:15:46,979 --> 00:15:48,579 Diane: I was with my mother. 268 00:15:48,681 --> 00:15:51,182 We were out to lunch and I received a phone call. 269 00:15:51,283 --> 00:15:56,220 And that's how we first heard, you know? 270 00:15:56,322 --> 00:15:59,156 I think I was in denial about how dangerous 271 00:15:59,258 --> 00:16:03,127 this really was, Brian. 272 00:16:03,229 --> 00:16:06,363 I was furious, 273 00:16:06,465 --> 00:16:08,365 just furious. 274 00:16:08,467 --> 00:16:10,634 Scared for him, furious. 275 00:16:10,737 --> 00:16:13,003 I hate to revisit it, but it was like, 276 00:16:13,106 --> 00:16:15,806 "I told you, Jim." 277 00:16:15,908 --> 00:16:19,977 I think we all went through the stages of total shock 278 00:16:20,079 --> 00:16:24,448 and then just, "What are we going to do?" 279 00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:26,316 And then anger. 280 00:16:26,418 --> 00:16:28,886 After all, we're family, you know? 281 00:16:32,258 --> 00:16:34,024 Jim: You're so humbled. 282 00:16:34,127 --> 00:16:35,893 You lost everything-- 283 00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:38,662 your freedom, your control, 284 00:16:38,765 --> 00:16:40,530 your ability to talk to anybody 285 00:16:40,633 --> 00:16:41,899 and tell anybody you're okay. 286 00:16:42,001 --> 00:16:43,700 Thinking one minute, "Oh, yeah, 287 00:16:43,803 --> 00:16:45,602 I'm a foreign correspondent." 288 00:16:45,704 --> 00:16:49,373 The next minute, somebody who you respect killed 289 00:16:49,475 --> 00:16:52,042 and you have nothing. 290 00:16:56,015 --> 00:16:58,548 Clare: Jim was concerned 291 00:16:58,651 --> 00:17:01,451 that his own competitiveness 292 00:17:01,553 --> 00:17:04,155 with Manu, with Anton, with himself, 293 00:17:04,257 --> 00:17:07,691 his own sort of macho aggressiveness 294 00:17:07,794 --> 00:17:10,127 had driven him to make decisions 295 00:17:10,229 --> 00:17:11,762 that were not the best decisions. 296 00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:14,498 We were all questioning our judgment. 297 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,868 One of the main things that affected all of us 298 00:17:17,970 --> 00:17:23,674 is that Anton had kids and none of us do. 299 00:17:23,776 --> 00:17:26,177 Jim: Every day I have to deal with the fact 300 00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:30,514 that Anton is not going to ever see his three kids anymore, 301 00:17:30,616 --> 00:17:33,284 and I was part of that decision-making process... 302 00:17:35,922 --> 00:17:37,288 that took him away-- 303 00:17:37,389 --> 00:17:39,890 that took him away from his kids and his wife. 304 00:17:44,163 --> 00:17:46,430 ( Manu speaking ) 305 00:17:55,341 --> 00:17:58,342 Jim: I had a lot of time to play over those moments, 306 00:17:58,444 --> 00:18:01,478 especially that one day when we were captured. 307 00:18:01,580 --> 00:18:04,014 I tried to question myself. "What are you reporting on? 308 00:18:04,116 --> 00:18:06,217 What is this all about?" 309 00:18:06,319 --> 00:18:07,952 It was quickly apparent 310 00:18:08,054 --> 00:18:10,587 that this was about being what you think 311 00:18:10,689 --> 00:18:12,890 is an authentic conflict correspondent, 312 00:18:12,992 --> 00:18:15,392 seeing the frontline, and it not being enough 313 00:18:15,494 --> 00:18:17,627 to just see it from a distance, 314 00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:19,930 but to push it to the next level. 315 00:18:20,032 --> 00:18:22,233 You were basically waiting to get shelled, 316 00:18:22,335 --> 00:18:25,602 and the question is, "Why?" 317 00:18:25,704 --> 00:18:27,738 You know, "Why are you doing this?" 318 00:18:31,610 --> 00:18:33,744 Michael: A lot of us were just scratching our head, right? 319 00:18:33,846 --> 00:18:36,480 There's no money. Maybe you get a story 320 00:18:36,582 --> 00:18:38,082 here and there that you sell. 321 00:18:38,184 --> 00:18:40,251 I used to loan him money. 322 00:18:40,353 --> 00:18:43,620 My credit report has one ding on it, 323 00:18:43,722 --> 00:18:47,091 and it's the one loan that I cosigned with Jim. 324 00:18:47,193 --> 00:18:52,529 I think Jimmy was just a little outside the lines. 325 00:18:52,631 --> 00:18:54,564 He was wicked disorganized. 326 00:18:54,666 --> 00:18:56,367 Mark: We had to tell him to come to dinner. 327 00:18:56,468 --> 00:18:59,503 If dinner was at 5:00, we'd tell him it was at 3:00. 328 00:18:59,605 --> 00:19:01,305 so he'd show up at 5:00. 329 00:19:01,407 --> 00:19:03,207 He always lives in the moment. 330 00:19:03,309 --> 00:19:04,808 I don't know if Mike ever told you 331 00:19:04,911 --> 00:19:07,344 that Jim was late to his wedding. 332 00:19:07,446 --> 00:19:09,479 "John, can I sleep at your house? 333 00:19:09,581 --> 00:19:12,116 John, can my friend stay at your house?" 334 00:19:12,218 --> 00:19:15,585 "Yes, Jim, yes." 335 00:19:15,687 --> 00:19:18,855 Even though you were like, "Jim, just wake up! 336 00:19:18,958 --> 00:19:20,891 Wake up! What are you doing? 337 00:19:20,993 --> 00:19:22,159 Get a real job. 338 00:19:22,261 --> 00:19:25,229 Start saving up for retirement." 339 00:19:25,331 --> 00:19:27,932 I remember I said, "Why don't you come to Chicago? 340 00:19:28,034 --> 00:19:29,833 My dad runs this boot camp 341 00:19:29,936 --> 00:19:32,102 that's teaching young felons." 342 00:19:32,204 --> 00:19:33,870 He goes there for the interview and I call him afterwards 343 00:19:33,973 --> 00:19:35,739 and I'm like, "How'd the interview go?" 344 00:19:35,841 --> 00:19:38,875 He's like, "It was great. I think it went great." 345 00:19:38,978 --> 00:19:40,644 I call my dad and he goes, 346 00:19:40,746 --> 00:19:42,212 "He said it went great, did he? 347 00:19:42,315 --> 00:19:44,614 Because I just talked to the lady at the hiring board, 348 00:19:44,716 --> 00:19:47,484 and when she went out there, she found Jim sleeping 349 00:19:47,586 --> 00:19:49,519 with his head back on the wall 350 00:19:49,621 --> 00:19:51,088 and he's wearing jeans with paint or something all over them." 351 00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:52,923 I call Jim back. I'm like, "Jim, 352 00:19:53,025 --> 00:19:54,891 what the hell happened at the interview?" 353 00:19:54,994 --> 00:19:56,626 He's like, "It was hot in there, Tom. 354 00:19:56,728 --> 00:19:59,063 It was hot. I just put my head back and I nodded off." 355 00:19:59,165 --> 00:20:01,131 I'm like, "Did you have jeans on with paint?" 356 00:20:01,233 --> 00:20:03,367 And he's like, "Yeah, they had these symbols on them. 357 00:20:03,469 --> 00:20:05,735 What was I supposed to wear?" I'm like, "Jim, it's an interview. 358 00:20:05,838 --> 00:20:07,737 It's an interview. You can't do this." 359 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,674 So my dad always says that Jim had a million-dollar resume 360 00:20:10,776 --> 00:20:13,410 and a 10-cent interview. 361 00:20:13,512 --> 00:20:16,180 He came and he started teaching reading and writing, 362 00:20:16,282 --> 00:20:19,549 some literature, and he was really good with these kids, 363 00:20:19,651 --> 00:20:21,718 because Jim was into hip-hop and rap 364 00:20:21,820 --> 00:20:23,920 and he liked to grab a mic himself. 365 00:20:24,023 --> 00:20:25,655 Jim connected with these guys. 366 00:20:25,757 --> 00:20:27,891 He'd find out about their backgrounds, talk to them. 367 00:20:27,994 --> 00:20:29,626 I think that really hit him. 368 00:20:29,728 --> 00:20:31,261 He was seeing young guys 369 00:20:31,364 --> 00:20:33,263 that came from terrible neighborhoods 370 00:20:33,366 --> 00:20:34,898 that never really had a chance. 371 00:20:35,001 --> 00:20:36,533 I think he started seeing 372 00:20:36,635 --> 00:20:38,802 there are people who need their stories told. 373 00:20:43,075 --> 00:20:45,942 Jim: The prison that we were transferred to 374 00:20:46,045 --> 00:20:49,713 was filled with all these political prisoners from all walks of life. 375 00:20:49,815 --> 00:20:51,882 Some were fishermen, some were engineers. 376 00:20:51,984 --> 00:20:54,218 It was the warmth of these Libyans that said, 377 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,053 "Here you're our guest. Take this bed. 378 00:20:56,155 --> 00:20:57,754 You don't have a cigarette? Here's a cigarette." 379 00:20:57,856 --> 00:20:59,456 "You want an extra piece of chicken? Here." 380 00:21:01,460 --> 00:21:03,494 These guys understand that I'm a journalist 381 00:21:03,595 --> 00:21:05,262 and I'm trying to get the truth, 382 00:21:05,364 --> 00:21:07,197 and perhaps wrongly they think I'm on their side, 383 00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:09,266 but I certainly feel like it now. 384 00:21:09,368 --> 00:21:11,801 ( chanting over P.A. ) 385 00:21:16,808 --> 00:21:18,608 You know that if you are kind of without hope, 386 00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:20,310 you're totally humbled, 387 00:21:20,413 --> 00:21:23,547 you tend to go to your faith if you have faith. 388 00:21:23,649 --> 00:21:26,250 Praying five times a day-- it was the life. 389 00:21:26,352 --> 00:21:29,086 It was their only source of life in prison. 390 00:21:29,188 --> 00:21:31,355 I was up nights talking to them. 391 00:21:31,457 --> 00:21:33,990 Eventually, one of them said, "Why don't you pray with us?" 392 00:21:34,060 --> 00:21:35,959 And I said, "No, I'll pray to Isa. 393 00:21:36,062 --> 00:21:37,594 I pray to Jesus when you guys are praying." 394 00:21:37,696 --> 00:21:40,897 He sort of looked at me like, "Okay." 395 00:21:40,999 --> 00:21:43,167 I guess I'm an experiential person, 396 00:21:43,269 --> 00:21:44,968 so I started praying with them. 397 00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:52,309 Little did I know, I just proclaimed my conversion to Islam. 398 00:21:52,411 --> 00:21:54,111 ( laughter ) 399 00:21:54,213 --> 00:21:58,148 So from then on out, I prayed with them five times a day. 400 00:21:58,250 --> 00:22:01,285 And it was just-- it was so powerful, 401 00:22:01,387 --> 00:22:03,887 and it was something that I needed to do. 402 00:22:03,989 --> 00:22:05,355 But it was difficult. 403 00:22:05,458 --> 00:22:08,024 I was thinking, "Jesus, am I praying to Allah? 404 00:22:08,127 --> 00:22:11,428 Am I violating my belief in you?" 405 00:22:11,530 --> 00:22:13,464 I don't have an answer to that. 406 00:22:13,566 --> 00:22:15,732 I just know that I was authentically praying with them 407 00:22:15,834 --> 00:22:18,469 and I was authentically also praying to Jesus. 408 00:22:22,708 --> 00:22:25,775 Michael: Jim and I were very close in age, 409 00:22:25,877 --> 00:22:29,480 look enough alike that I used his ID in college, 410 00:22:29,582 --> 00:22:30,880 but that's about it. 411 00:22:30,983 --> 00:22:32,616 We couldn't be more different. 412 00:22:32,718 --> 00:22:36,086 Jim was really different from most of us, right? 413 00:22:36,188 --> 00:22:38,489 I mean, to do what he went on to do, 414 00:22:38,591 --> 00:22:41,024 it's not a normal path. 415 00:22:41,127 --> 00:22:43,227 When Jim was taken in Libya, 416 00:22:43,329 --> 00:22:45,996 I just went into overdrive at that point. 417 00:22:46,098 --> 00:22:48,665 It's a nightmare. Each day it becomes harder 418 00:22:48,767 --> 00:22:50,534 with the lack of information. 419 00:22:50,636 --> 00:22:52,236 We know he's in Tripoli. 420 00:22:52,338 --> 00:22:54,004 We believe he's in a detention center. 421 00:22:54,106 --> 00:22:57,608 We really don't know much more beyond that. 422 00:22:57,709 --> 00:23:00,611 We organized this huge group of Jimmy's friends. 423 00:23:00,712 --> 00:23:02,679 We called them FOJs-- friends of Jim. 424 00:23:02,781 --> 00:23:04,414 We had a lot of outside help, 425 00:23:04,517 --> 00:23:06,316 but Michael was sort of the CEO of the group. 426 00:23:06,418 --> 00:23:09,052 His statement was there are no measurables 427 00:23:09,155 --> 00:23:10,954 other than getting Jim home. 428 00:23:11,056 --> 00:23:14,891 Our biggest fear is that it becomes yesterday's story 429 00:23:14,993 --> 00:23:16,793 and people forget about it. 430 00:23:16,895 --> 00:23:18,995 We love Jim and we miss him. 431 00:23:19,097 --> 00:23:21,064 We want him home. 432 00:23:23,135 --> 00:23:24,668 Brian: Tell me about the release. 433 00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:26,870 What was that day like for you guys? 434 00:23:28,907 --> 00:23:31,107 Reporter: After successful diplomatic negotiations, 435 00:23:31,210 --> 00:23:34,611 two American journalists and a Spanish journalist are finally going home 436 00:23:34,713 --> 00:23:36,313 after being kidnapped and detained 437 00:23:36,415 --> 00:23:38,282 by the Libyan government forces for 44 days. 438 00:23:38,384 --> 00:23:40,050 - What is your name? - Manu Brabo. 439 00:23:40,152 --> 00:23:42,319 - Were you okay? Were you looked after? - I'm fine. 440 00:23:42,421 --> 00:23:44,988 If you didn't catch it the first time around, 441 00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:46,490 get it from your buddy. 442 00:23:46,592 --> 00:23:49,259 Guys, could you please give them some space? 443 00:23:51,263 --> 00:23:53,230 Michael: What was really interesting about that whole process, 444 00:23:53,332 --> 00:23:56,099 there was a day where we were making some progress 445 00:23:56,202 --> 00:23:58,468 and I just decided that I have to go. 446 00:23:58,571 --> 00:24:00,070 I have to get on a plane and go. 447 00:24:00,172 --> 00:24:02,506 I don't know. I can't describe it. 448 00:24:02,608 --> 00:24:05,108 But I knew-- at least felt strongly-- 449 00:24:05,211 --> 00:24:08,579 that it was going to work out. 450 00:24:08,681 --> 00:24:11,281 All the security guys wanted to debrief him first, 451 00:24:11,383 --> 00:24:12,683 and finally I said, "Enough of this shit" 452 00:24:12,784 --> 00:24:14,918 and just went into the hotel room. 453 00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:17,521 I remember seeing Jim, he had a full beard, 454 00:24:17,623 --> 00:24:20,890 and he just grabbed me and said, "Mike." 455 00:24:20,992 --> 00:24:23,760 We both kind of just grabbed each other's arms, 456 00:24:23,862 --> 00:24:26,062 like, just to-- is it real? 457 00:24:26,164 --> 00:24:27,531 I ordered pizza 458 00:24:27,633 --> 00:24:29,266 and as many Heinekens as they could put in a car 459 00:24:29,368 --> 00:24:31,000 and about two packs of cigarettes 460 00:24:31,103 --> 00:24:32,736 because I knew that's all they had over there. 461 00:24:32,838 --> 00:24:37,341 I looked at them and I said, "I guess I got this one," 462 00:24:37,443 --> 00:24:39,142 and we just stayed up all night. 463 00:24:42,348 --> 00:24:43,880 Katie: All the family and friends, 464 00:24:43,982 --> 00:24:46,383 we're all together waiting for them. 465 00:24:48,721 --> 00:24:50,287 And all of a sudden we see 466 00:24:50,389 --> 00:24:53,690 these blue lights just rushing at us. 467 00:24:53,792 --> 00:24:55,091 ( sirens blaring ) 468 00:24:55,193 --> 00:24:56,793 We're like, "Oh, my God, this is Jim. 469 00:24:56,895 --> 00:24:59,162 This is-- he's actually here." 470 00:24:59,265 --> 00:25:01,164 I don't know, it was like a movie. 471 00:25:01,267 --> 00:25:03,967 He was so happy to see everybody. 472 00:25:19,117 --> 00:25:21,117 Jim: You have a close call. 473 00:25:21,219 --> 00:25:23,119 That's pure luck that you didn't get killed there. 474 00:25:23,221 --> 00:25:26,990 It's not worth seeing your mother or father bawling 475 00:25:27,092 --> 00:25:29,660 and worrying about your grandmother dying 476 00:25:29,762 --> 00:25:30,927 because you're in prison. 477 00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:32,896 It's not worth these things. 478 00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:37,167 And outside, in my parents' home 479 00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:39,403 in a comfortable house in New Hampshire, 480 00:25:39,505 --> 00:25:41,672 I sort of had to start processing. 481 00:25:41,774 --> 00:25:43,540 I was horrified to learn 482 00:25:43,642 --> 00:25:45,442 how much my friends and family had done to help me. 483 00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:47,076 I was inspired and I was horrified. 484 00:25:47,179 --> 00:25:50,847 It was a weird feeling of, like, going to your own funeral. 485 00:25:53,885 --> 00:25:56,420 There's no going back from something like this. 486 00:25:58,857 --> 00:26:00,424 Some of the things I'll never be able to change, 487 00:26:00,526 --> 00:26:02,793 but I wish-- I wish that I could. 488 00:26:12,571 --> 00:26:14,170 - This is-- - What are you gonna do? 489 00:26:14,272 --> 00:26:16,172 This is Jim's blazer from when he spoke at Marquette, 490 00:26:16,274 --> 00:26:17,407 this brown one. 491 00:26:19,812 --> 00:26:22,111 Bunch of stuff to go through. 492 00:26:23,682 --> 00:26:26,650 Yeah, so Jim lived with us for, what, three months? 493 00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:29,453 Summer after he was released from Libya. 494 00:26:29,555 --> 00:26:33,690 Summer until-- yeah, up until he went back. 495 00:26:33,792 --> 00:26:35,492 Used to have all his clothes in here. 496 00:26:35,594 --> 00:26:38,862 You can still see his CamelBak from the field. 497 00:26:38,964 --> 00:26:41,598 - Sleeping bags. - All his sleeping bags. 498 00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:43,433 Yeah. 499 00:26:43,535 --> 00:26:45,134 That was his bed right there. 500 00:26:45,237 --> 00:26:48,705 He'd always crash out there. 501 00:26:48,807 --> 00:26:50,474 So it was cool having Jim here, 502 00:26:50,576 --> 00:26:52,709 especially after him having been gone in Libya, 503 00:26:52,811 --> 00:26:56,246 because I think when he came back, 504 00:26:56,348 --> 00:26:58,849 you just wanted to touch him a lot. 505 00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:01,951 Because, I don't know, for me it was like, poke, 506 00:27:02,053 --> 00:27:03,387 and just make sure he's real. 507 00:27:03,489 --> 00:27:04,888 It was almost-- 508 00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:06,623 you're just more appreciative of him, 509 00:27:06,725 --> 00:27:09,393 especially with the kids getting to have him here 510 00:27:09,495 --> 00:27:12,262 because he was always on the go. 511 00:27:12,364 --> 00:27:14,364 They loved their Uncle Jim. 512 00:27:14,466 --> 00:27:17,734 They'd come downstairs at the crack of dawn and wake him up. 513 00:27:17,836 --> 00:27:20,937 It was good as much as it-- 514 00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:23,206 I think he had an itch he couldn't scratch 515 00:27:23,308 --> 00:27:25,108 when he was domesticated. 516 00:27:29,381 --> 00:27:31,180 Phil: When Jim came back from Libya, 517 00:27:31,283 --> 00:27:35,118 I offered him a full-time job here as an editor, 518 00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:40,156 while he sorted out what he would do next. 519 00:27:40,258 --> 00:27:44,561 He sat right outside my office. 520 00:27:44,663 --> 00:27:47,030 He was grateful to have the job, 521 00:27:47,132 --> 00:27:49,699 but working in an office 522 00:27:49,802 --> 00:27:54,404 was clearly not what he liked the most. 523 00:27:54,506 --> 00:27:57,507 He was quiet. 524 00:27:57,609 --> 00:28:00,444 I don't want to say he was withdrawn, 525 00:28:00,546 --> 00:28:02,579 but he was quiet. 526 00:28:04,483 --> 00:28:06,316 Katie: And I just remember Brad-- 527 00:28:06,418 --> 00:28:09,152 my fianc�-- and Jim were in the basement, 528 00:28:09,254 --> 00:28:12,556 and Brad doesn't even remember a time 529 00:28:12,658 --> 00:28:14,123 where Jim was sleeping. 530 00:28:14,225 --> 00:28:17,126 After the family had kind of settled down, 531 00:28:17,228 --> 00:28:20,096 Jim just went right to business, right to work. 532 00:28:20,198 --> 00:28:24,668 Diane: We had found him a very good psychologist to talk to, 533 00:28:24,770 --> 00:28:27,637 but he seemed so well, if you will, 534 00:28:27,739 --> 00:28:29,639 that we didn't push it. 535 00:28:29,741 --> 00:28:32,108 But he was so restless here at home. 536 00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:33,944 He didn't want to be here at home. 537 00:28:37,516 --> 00:28:39,382 Jim: Feeling like you survived something, 538 00:28:39,485 --> 00:28:41,417 it has a strange sort of force 539 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,454 that you are drawn back to. 540 00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:46,890 I think that's the absolute reality. 541 00:28:51,296 --> 00:28:53,463 Zac: Everything else becomes foreign. 542 00:28:53,565 --> 00:28:56,600 It was strange coming back to the real world. 543 00:28:56,702 --> 00:29:00,303 It was weird. It was normal in there. 544 00:29:00,405 --> 00:29:02,973 Clare: Yeah, if I go to Wal-Mart and I'm looking at 545 00:29:03,074 --> 00:29:07,243 literally an entire aisle full of Tupperware, 546 00:29:07,345 --> 00:29:08,812 it boggles my mind. 547 00:29:08,914 --> 00:29:12,315 There's a deep absurdity 548 00:29:12,417 --> 00:29:16,319 to understanding the peace 549 00:29:16,421 --> 00:29:19,422 that we're lucky enough to have in this country 550 00:29:19,525 --> 00:29:21,892 and the questions that it raises 551 00:29:21,994 --> 00:29:24,427 about how do we make our money, 552 00:29:24,530 --> 00:29:26,830 what is the basis of our peace, 553 00:29:26,932 --> 00:29:29,165 of our economic viability, 554 00:29:29,267 --> 00:29:32,869 of the fact that I can look at all of this Tupperware 555 00:29:32,971 --> 00:29:35,605 and someone else somewhere else 556 00:29:35,707 --> 00:29:38,008 is looking at the ruins of their home. 557 00:29:40,311 --> 00:29:41,811 Zac: You start missing all the bombs 558 00:29:41,914 --> 00:29:43,713 and the fighting and everything. 559 00:29:43,815 --> 00:29:45,515 I just used to love sitting up at night 560 00:29:45,617 --> 00:29:47,316 and just listening. 561 00:29:47,419 --> 00:29:49,553 ( gunfire ) 562 00:29:49,655 --> 00:29:51,187 It's really kind of sick. 563 00:29:51,289 --> 00:29:53,456 - ( explosions ) - But it also-- 564 00:29:53,559 --> 00:29:56,426 it feels super fortunate for being there. 565 00:29:56,528 --> 00:29:59,663 You think, like, out of 25 million people in your country, 566 00:29:59,765 --> 00:30:02,766 you're the only person who's got to experience that. 567 00:30:02,868 --> 00:30:05,134 Like, fuck, man, how fortunate am I? 568 00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:06,870 You're witnessing history unfolding 569 00:30:06,972 --> 00:30:09,973 and you're getting this perspective 570 00:30:10,075 --> 00:30:12,642 that is so unique. 571 00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:16,646 ( Manu speaking ) 572 00:31:05,597 --> 00:31:08,765 I believe that frontline journalism is important. 573 00:31:08,867 --> 00:31:11,434 Without these photos and videos 574 00:31:11,536 --> 00:31:13,402 and firsthand experience, 575 00:31:13,505 --> 00:31:16,740 we can't really tell the world 576 00:31:16,842 --> 00:31:18,842 how bad it might be. 577 00:31:18,944 --> 00:31:21,144 ( singing in Arabic ) 578 00:31:24,983 --> 00:31:27,350 ( explosion ) 579 00:31:33,825 --> 00:31:35,625 Woman: James Foley joins us now live 580 00:31:35,727 --> 00:31:37,627 from inside northern Syria 581 00:31:37,729 --> 00:31:39,696 with more on what he saw. 582 00:31:39,798 --> 00:31:42,899 Tell us more about what you were able to witness. 583 00:31:43,001 --> 00:31:44,400 Yes, thank you. 584 00:31:44,502 --> 00:31:46,435 You've heard about indiscriminate shelling, 585 00:31:46,538 --> 00:31:49,139 but to see those bodies left over 586 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,375 from a direct mortar hit was really shocking. 587 00:31:52,477 --> 00:31:54,010 These were civilians, 588 00:31:54,112 --> 00:31:56,880 and they are under pretty continuous shelling. 589 00:31:56,982 --> 00:31:59,149 ( chanting ) 590 00:32:11,797 --> 00:32:12,962 Thank you. 591 00:32:16,367 --> 00:32:21,270 It seemed like he started thinking about going to Syria, 592 00:32:21,372 --> 00:32:23,940 and by the time he mentioned it, 593 00:32:24,042 --> 00:32:27,310 it was like he'd already kind of made up his mind. 594 00:32:28,613 --> 00:32:31,147 And he said he was going with John Cantlie, 595 00:32:31,249 --> 00:32:34,184 who's another colleague-- a British photojournalist 596 00:32:34,285 --> 00:32:38,021 that we'd all met in Libya the year before. 597 00:32:38,123 --> 00:32:40,223 - Man: What's your name? - Jim. 598 00:32:40,325 --> 00:32:42,826 - John. Jim and John. - Man: John, Jim. 599 00:32:42,928 --> 00:32:46,295 Johnny, you say I love you. You say. 600 00:32:46,397 --> 00:32:47,964 Diane: I don't know. 601 00:32:48,066 --> 00:32:50,299 I really didn't 602 00:32:50,401 --> 00:32:53,236 really get into it with Jim. 603 00:32:53,338 --> 00:32:55,471 I think I made it too easy for him. 604 00:32:55,573 --> 00:32:58,641 I mean, it was something he wanted to do, 605 00:32:58,744 --> 00:33:01,477 and so we were trying to be supportive 606 00:33:01,579 --> 00:33:05,281 about his decision to do that, you know? 607 00:33:05,383 --> 00:33:07,851 You just want to punch him in the face. 608 00:33:07,953 --> 00:33:11,487 You know, in a loving, brotherly way. 609 00:33:11,589 --> 00:33:14,457 But you're like, "Come on, Jim! Come on!" 610 00:33:16,427 --> 00:33:19,028 Tom: The last conversation I ever had with Jim, I said to him, 611 00:33:19,131 --> 00:33:21,564 "Jim, man, why do you keep going back into Syria? 612 00:33:21,666 --> 00:33:23,166 I mean, what's it like?" 613 00:33:23,268 --> 00:33:24,834 And he's like, "It's crazy, it's crazy." 614 00:33:24,936 --> 00:33:27,237 I'm like "Well, is it more dangerous than Libya?" 615 00:33:27,338 --> 00:33:28,872 He's like, "Yeah, it's more dangerous than Libya!" 616 00:33:28,974 --> 00:33:30,974 I'm like, "You got captured in Libya!" 617 00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:34,477 You couldn't talk him out of it. 618 00:34:11,549 --> 00:34:14,750 ( chanting ) 619 00:34:14,853 --> 00:34:17,687 Jim: You know, the thing is, is there's physical courage, right? 620 00:34:17,789 --> 00:34:20,156 For some reason, I have physical courage. 621 00:34:20,258 --> 00:34:21,724 But really, think about it, 622 00:34:21,827 --> 00:34:23,726 that's nothing compared to moral courage. 623 00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:25,695 I can go and get those shots, 624 00:34:25,797 --> 00:34:27,630 but if I don't have the moral courage 625 00:34:27,732 --> 00:34:31,067 to challenge authority, to write about things 626 00:34:31,169 --> 00:34:34,470 that are going to maybe have reprisals on my career-- 627 00:34:34,572 --> 00:34:37,373 if I don't have moral courage, we don't have journalism. 628 00:34:39,477 --> 00:34:42,545 Jim chose one story in particular about this hospital, 629 00:34:42,647 --> 00:34:45,048 the Dar Al Shifa Hospital in Aleppo. 630 00:34:45,150 --> 00:34:48,751 It was actually Jim's idea to spend a week in that hospital 631 00:34:48,854 --> 00:34:51,754 documenting what the doctors and the staff there 632 00:34:51,857 --> 00:34:53,890 were doing on a daily basis. 633 00:34:56,061 --> 00:34:57,560 Yes. 634 00:35:03,601 --> 00:35:05,869 - Whew! - ( man shouts ) 635 00:35:05,971 --> 00:35:07,303 ( chanting ) 636 00:35:14,045 --> 00:35:15,644 Nicole: From what he and I witnessed, 637 00:35:15,747 --> 00:35:17,813 they were literally shuttling people with drips 638 00:35:17,916 --> 00:35:19,615 and bandages and everything 639 00:35:19,717 --> 00:35:22,952 in these tiny little taxis and cars. 640 00:35:23,054 --> 00:35:25,321 And Jim was the one who came up with the idea 641 00:35:25,423 --> 00:35:28,358 of raising money to get an ambulance for the hospital. 642 00:35:28,459 --> 00:35:30,026 And he was in touch with everybody, 643 00:35:30,128 --> 00:35:31,660 and there was an ambulance 644 00:35:31,763 --> 00:35:32,996 that was a secondhand ambulance 645 00:35:33,098 --> 00:35:34,797 that was coming from Austria, 646 00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:36,933 and Jim and I actually made one trip in 647 00:35:37,035 --> 00:35:39,168 and we saw the ambulance sitting outside the hospital. 648 00:35:39,271 --> 00:35:43,539 And that moment of joy on his face was priceless. 649 00:35:43,641 --> 00:35:45,975 He was just like, "It made it. It's awesome." 650 00:35:49,247 --> 00:35:52,848 Clare: I would say the flip side of his willingness 651 00:35:52,951 --> 00:35:54,750 to get out there and do things 652 00:35:54,852 --> 00:35:58,454 is that like, okay, so you get an ambulance into Syria. 653 00:35:58,556 --> 00:36:00,223 Some militia is going to commandeer it 654 00:36:00,325 --> 00:36:02,358 and use it for their own purposes. 655 00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:04,027 They're going to put an anti-aircraft in the back of it, 656 00:36:04,129 --> 00:36:05,428 like, go blow shit up. 657 00:36:05,530 --> 00:36:09,598 Jim was not focused on that kind of issue. 658 00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:13,803 He would think about what's the best-case scenario, 659 00:36:13,905 --> 00:36:16,839 not how things could go wrong. 660 00:36:20,178 --> 00:36:21,978 Nicole: It becomes very personal 661 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,181 because we have to live amongst the local population, 662 00:36:25,283 --> 00:36:29,185 and it's such this brutal, endless conflict 663 00:36:29,287 --> 00:36:31,421 that you just-- 664 00:36:31,522 --> 00:36:34,623 you feel so kind of alone 665 00:36:34,725 --> 00:36:36,659 in the sense that you can't do anything about it. 666 00:36:36,761 --> 00:36:39,028 You can't do anything for these people-- 667 00:36:39,130 --> 00:36:40,863 for the people you've made friends with 668 00:36:40,966 --> 00:36:42,498 and for the people who took you in 669 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,334 and shared their food with you 670 00:36:44,436 --> 00:36:47,203 and wanted you to play with their children. 671 00:36:47,305 --> 00:36:49,872 We'd become the intimate chroniclers of this conflict. 672 00:36:49,975 --> 00:36:51,674 We don't have bureaus to go back to. 673 00:36:51,776 --> 00:36:54,110 You're there, and every moment of it 674 00:36:54,212 --> 00:36:57,146 you share with the locals. 675 00:36:57,248 --> 00:37:00,883 And I think there was just this enormous guilt that rode on Jim's back 676 00:37:00,986 --> 00:37:04,020 that made him feel so compelled 677 00:37:04,122 --> 00:37:08,191 to do much more than just record video and file it. 678 00:37:08,293 --> 00:37:10,960 There were times where he was offering up video for free 679 00:37:11,062 --> 00:37:13,796 and I would chastise him for it. I'd be like, "What are you doing?" 680 00:37:13,898 --> 00:37:16,565 He was like, "Nah, whatever. It's fine. It's all good. 681 00:37:16,667 --> 00:37:19,268 I just want to make sure the video gets out there." 682 00:37:22,540 --> 00:37:26,442 Diane: Jim's the kind of guy who never needed much. 683 00:37:26,544 --> 00:37:30,713 Some of the lifestyle of a conflict journalist is tough, 684 00:37:30,815 --> 00:37:33,182 but that didn't bother Jim. 685 00:37:33,284 --> 00:37:35,218 The only possessions I think Jim cared about 686 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,952 were books and CDs. 687 00:37:37,088 --> 00:37:38,921 I mean his camera, ultimately. 688 00:37:39,024 --> 00:37:41,024 He'd come home without a toothbrush. 689 00:37:41,126 --> 00:37:44,394 Just use whatever toothbrush was available. 690 00:37:44,496 --> 00:37:46,695 Jim could fall asleep anywhere. 691 00:37:46,797 --> 00:37:50,466 All he needed was just a little space on the floor. 692 00:37:50,568 --> 00:37:51,834 He was like a cat. 693 00:37:53,505 --> 00:37:56,539 Brian: This is a good one. 694 00:37:56,641 --> 00:37:58,741 ( Manu speaking ) 695 00:38:05,083 --> 00:38:07,016 Diane: Over time, you know, 696 00:38:07,118 --> 00:38:08,684 he slowly got rid of his apartment, 697 00:38:08,786 --> 00:38:10,086 sold his car. 698 00:38:10,188 --> 00:38:14,290 He just ended up really owning nothing. 699 00:38:14,392 --> 00:38:15,958 So, what would he want for Christmas? 700 00:38:16,061 --> 00:38:17,593 This last time before going to Syria, 701 00:38:17,695 --> 00:38:19,562 he wanted a tough pair of pants. 702 00:38:19,664 --> 00:38:21,164 He really did have less and less 703 00:38:21,266 --> 00:38:23,399 and it didn't bother him at all 704 00:38:23,501 --> 00:38:25,201 because he seemed richer and richer. 705 00:38:38,015 --> 00:38:40,049 Nicole: There was one day in August 706 00:38:40,151 --> 00:38:43,119 when a Syrian activist was taking us around this neighborhood 707 00:38:43,221 --> 00:38:45,588 called Bustan al-Qasr 708 00:38:45,690 --> 00:38:49,925 and this fighter jet just started circling above 709 00:38:50,027 --> 00:38:52,861 and just swooped right down and hit a building 710 00:38:52,964 --> 00:38:55,030 that was a couple hundred feet from us. 711 00:38:55,133 --> 00:38:57,567 - ( gunfire ) - ( explosions ) 712 00:39:00,705 --> 00:39:03,106 We started seeing civilians coming out 713 00:39:03,208 --> 00:39:06,509 and just clutching nothing, really. 714 00:39:06,611 --> 00:39:07,910 Just ashen faces. 715 00:39:08,012 --> 00:39:10,213 There was rubble everywhere. 716 00:39:10,315 --> 00:39:11,481 It was chaos. 717 00:39:11,583 --> 00:39:13,416 ( shouting ) 718 00:39:15,620 --> 00:39:17,253 And the plane came around again. 719 00:39:17,355 --> 00:39:19,388 It dropped another bomb really close by, 720 00:39:19,491 --> 00:39:21,457 and, actually, we were right across the building, 721 00:39:21,559 --> 00:39:23,459 and we looked up and we could see 722 00:39:23,561 --> 00:39:25,828 the rubble start coming down. 723 00:39:30,568 --> 00:39:35,605 That bomb had hit a family of seven. 724 00:39:36,641 --> 00:39:38,741 ( speaking Arabic ) 725 00:39:41,212 --> 00:39:42,411 Jim: Who was killed? 726 00:39:43,481 --> 00:39:45,047 Who? 727 00:39:48,919 --> 00:39:50,853 Nicole: It was horrific in the scale of it, 728 00:39:50,955 --> 00:39:53,523 but also just-- I think nothing prepares you 729 00:39:53,625 --> 00:39:57,326 for seeing kids being killed and maimed in that way, 730 00:39:57,428 --> 00:39:59,695 and I know that Jim really loves kids. 731 00:39:59,797 --> 00:40:02,165 So, you know, we were both just-- 732 00:40:02,267 --> 00:40:06,269 we didn't say anything until we got to the field hospital 733 00:40:06,371 --> 00:40:07,870 where they were bringing the bodies. 734 00:40:14,179 --> 00:40:17,280 And we were both just in this mode 735 00:40:17,382 --> 00:40:20,082 of just needing to get the pictures out. 736 00:40:20,185 --> 00:40:22,485 I think when we were finished that night, though, 737 00:40:22,587 --> 00:40:25,087 we kind of sat down and lit a cigarette 738 00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:27,890 and we just started talking about it. 739 00:40:27,992 --> 00:40:30,059 Really, there wasn't very much to say, though. 740 00:40:30,161 --> 00:40:33,095 You know, like, what is there to talk about 741 00:40:33,198 --> 00:40:35,531 when you witness something like that? 742 00:40:35,633 --> 00:40:37,600 So we just sort of sat in silence. 743 00:40:39,804 --> 00:40:41,737 Zac: Nothing prepares you for that. 744 00:40:41,839 --> 00:40:44,006 No amount of courses. Nothing. 745 00:40:44,108 --> 00:40:48,010 You just go there and you'll either handle it or you don't, 746 00:40:48,112 --> 00:40:49,679 and that's cool. 747 00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:52,248 Either you run or you stay. 748 00:40:52,350 --> 00:40:55,150 And there's-- not one is better than the other, 749 00:40:55,253 --> 00:40:57,520 but just don't delude yourself. 750 00:40:57,622 --> 00:41:00,122 Some people aren't meant for that. 751 00:41:10,368 --> 00:41:14,169 Clare: The shine was starting to come off in a way. 752 00:41:14,272 --> 00:41:16,272 There was a period of time 753 00:41:16,374 --> 00:41:18,441 where journalists were welcomed with open arms 754 00:41:18,543 --> 00:41:21,510 because they'd seen what had happened in Libya. 755 00:41:21,613 --> 00:41:24,313 And when that didn't come about after a year, 756 00:41:24,415 --> 00:41:27,082 after a year and a half, after two years, 757 00:41:27,184 --> 00:41:29,017 it's just like, "Okay, what are you guys doing?" 758 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,654 I had a doctor tell me at the hospital 759 00:41:31,756 --> 00:41:34,022 that Jim helped raise money for an ambulance-- 760 00:41:34,125 --> 00:41:37,360 he was like, "Look, you guys are in and out of here since one year, 761 00:41:37,462 --> 00:41:39,928 and it's the same exact thing except it's worse. 762 00:41:40,030 --> 00:41:42,331 I don't want to talk to you." 763 00:41:45,102 --> 00:41:47,202 If the populace on the ground 764 00:41:47,305 --> 00:41:49,472 whose side you're documenting 765 00:41:49,574 --> 00:41:52,841 is getting more uneasy with you 766 00:41:52,943 --> 00:41:55,544 or less willing to help-- 767 00:41:55,647 --> 00:41:57,212 you're very dependent on the goodwill 768 00:41:57,315 --> 00:41:59,047 of the people you're around. 769 00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,886 ( Manu speaking ) 770 00:42:27,878 --> 00:42:32,281 It's just that moment of, like, how well can you know anybody? 771 00:42:32,383 --> 00:42:35,818 Even, say you know someone very well, 772 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,620 two years of war, three years of war, 773 00:42:37,722 --> 00:42:40,122 that's going to change anybody. 774 00:42:40,224 --> 00:42:41,457 They warned journalists. 775 00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:43,426 They were like, "Al-Qaeda is coming." 776 00:42:43,528 --> 00:42:45,160 Maybe even worse than al-Qaeda is coming 777 00:42:45,262 --> 00:42:48,497 and nobody is going to help us against the Assad regime 778 00:42:48,599 --> 00:42:51,133 except for these guys. 779 00:42:51,235 --> 00:42:53,035 So it was all there. 780 00:42:56,907 --> 00:42:59,074 Clare: One of the main things I noticed 781 00:42:59,176 --> 00:43:01,310 the last time when he came out, 782 00:43:01,412 --> 00:43:02,611 he looked really hollow 783 00:43:02,714 --> 00:43:05,147 and he was quite-- quite silent. 784 00:43:05,249 --> 00:43:09,385 He had that amazing room-brightening smile 785 00:43:09,487 --> 00:43:13,356 even if he had seen terrible things, as one does. 786 00:43:13,458 --> 00:43:15,324 It was disheartening to see. 787 00:43:19,997 --> 00:43:23,165 Mark: Before he left for Syria, I think we made it a point, 788 00:43:23,267 --> 00:43:26,268 we were going to bring him down to the Faneuil Hall district 789 00:43:26,371 --> 00:43:29,137 and go to the comedy club down there. 790 00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:30,506 The comedians were horrible, 791 00:43:30,608 --> 00:43:32,074 but I was in the mood to laugh, 792 00:43:32,176 --> 00:43:33,976 so I'm just laughing at anything. 793 00:43:34,078 --> 00:43:35,544 And I just remember looking at Jim 794 00:43:35,646 --> 00:43:37,847 and he was just dead-faced. 795 00:43:37,948 --> 00:43:41,350 And then me and Jim went outside for a cigarette 796 00:43:41,452 --> 00:43:43,352 like we always do. 797 00:43:43,454 --> 00:43:44,820 He said he had to go. 798 00:43:44,922 --> 00:43:46,455 We had a long hug. 799 00:43:46,557 --> 00:43:48,957 I remember I hugged him a really long time. 800 00:43:49,059 --> 00:43:50,225 Just hugged him really tight. 801 00:43:50,327 --> 00:43:52,060 I said be careful. 802 00:43:52,162 --> 00:43:53,896 Obviously, I didn't feel like that was the last time 803 00:43:53,964 --> 00:43:57,266 I was going to see him, but it was a good night. 804 00:43:57,368 --> 00:43:59,001 It was a good end of the night, you know? 805 00:44:02,139 --> 00:44:04,740 John, Sr.: I guess if I had any regrets, Brian, 806 00:44:04,842 --> 00:44:08,477 I regret that I found it difficult to communicate with Jim. 807 00:44:08,579 --> 00:44:11,914 I don't know if it's the male thing or whatever it is, 808 00:44:12,016 --> 00:44:14,550 but I just wish I was able to share more 809 00:44:14,652 --> 00:44:16,285 of who I was with Jim again 810 00:44:16,387 --> 00:44:18,086 and get him to share who he was with me, 811 00:44:18,188 --> 00:44:21,056 which might have been just as difficult, you know? 812 00:44:21,158 --> 00:44:23,859 Diane: He would interview us when we came home 813 00:44:23,961 --> 00:44:25,861 and he did a great job interviewing us, 814 00:44:25,963 --> 00:44:29,698 because you felt like talking because he was listening. 815 00:44:29,801 --> 00:44:31,767 He wanted to know how we were. 816 00:44:31,869 --> 00:44:33,068 And that was-- when he came home, 817 00:44:33,170 --> 00:44:34,703 that's what he wanted to know. 818 00:44:34,806 --> 00:44:38,273 He wanted, "Well, how are you? How you doing?" 819 00:44:38,375 --> 00:44:41,243 "How's Grandma? How's Katie and Mark?" 820 00:44:41,345 --> 00:44:44,313 And he just wanted to know how everyone was doing. 821 00:44:44,415 --> 00:44:48,350 So in that way, Jim was kind of solitary. 822 00:44:50,421 --> 00:44:52,455 Kristie: He was home, end of October, 823 00:44:52,557 --> 00:44:55,858 right before he went back to Syria that last time, 824 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,827 and he was going-- 825 00:44:57,929 --> 00:44:59,161 I remember he was leaving here 826 00:44:59,263 --> 00:45:00,830 and he was going to New York to get a helmet 827 00:45:00,932 --> 00:45:02,898 from somebody, which was good. 828 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,701 We were like, "Getting safety equipment. We like this." 829 00:45:05,803 --> 00:45:09,772 Yeah, I remember we left and we dropped him off at a train station. 830 00:45:09,874 --> 00:45:12,240 And he-- we were going to see him in December. 831 00:45:12,343 --> 00:45:14,577 - He was supposed to come home kind of-- - You have a good memory. 832 00:45:14,679 --> 00:45:16,278 He was supposed to come home mid-December. 833 00:45:16,380 --> 00:45:20,415 And we were like, "Be safe. See you soon." 834 00:45:20,518 --> 00:45:24,152 And unfortunately, that didn't-- 835 00:45:24,254 --> 00:45:26,388 Yeah. 836 00:45:31,362 --> 00:45:33,963 - Sorry. - It's okay. 837 00:45:48,579 --> 00:45:51,747 Nicole: We'd spent the beginning of November in Aleppo again 838 00:45:51,849 --> 00:45:56,084 with Jim, John Cantlie, and Mustafa, our translator, 839 00:45:56,186 --> 00:45:58,387 who's become a friend of ours. 840 00:45:58,489 --> 00:46:01,757 I had had some issues with my camera that week. 841 00:46:01,859 --> 00:46:05,260 So, I was like, "Jim, I got to go back to Istanbul. 842 00:46:05,362 --> 00:46:07,796 I'll see you guys in a week." 843 00:46:07,899 --> 00:46:12,200 The moment when I said bye to Jim, 844 00:46:12,302 --> 00:46:16,572 I had this feeling of reluctance to leave. 845 00:46:16,674 --> 00:46:19,842 I think in a way maybe it did upset the balance 846 00:46:19,944 --> 00:46:22,511 that he and I had shared for so long. 847 00:46:22,613 --> 00:46:25,614 There are superstitions when you're in a war zone. 848 00:46:29,286 --> 00:46:31,854 There's like this one thing that he and I shared, 849 00:46:31,956 --> 00:46:33,455 which was our lucky lighter. 850 00:46:33,558 --> 00:46:35,223 It's very common in the Middle East. 851 00:46:35,325 --> 00:46:38,293 It's like the evil eye to ward off evil spirits. 852 00:46:38,395 --> 00:46:40,228 We'd used it for everything, 853 00:46:40,330 --> 00:46:42,330 and for some reason it never ran out of lighter fluid. 854 00:46:42,433 --> 00:46:44,232 It's just this stupid idea. 855 00:46:44,334 --> 00:46:49,271 You put your hopes into one object to make it feel safe. 856 00:46:50,641 --> 00:46:52,875 I think about it a lot afterwards, 857 00:46:52,977 --> 00:46:55,678 that he didn't have it with him. 858 00:46:55,780 --> 00:47:00,115 Maybe if I just gave him the lucky lighter, 859 00:47:00,217 --> 00:47:02,084 everything might have turned out okay. 860 00:47:02,186 --> 00:47:03,652 I don't know. 861 00:47:06,023 --> 00:47:08,724 That day, I was in Reyhanli, 862 00:47:08,826 --> 00:47:10,459 which is the border town, 863 00:47:10,561 --> 00:47:13,596 and I would have seen him at about 5:00. 864 00:47:13,698 --> 00:47:16,131 So I checked in and I told Jim, 865 00:47:16,233 --> 00:47:18,200 I'm like, "Hey, I'm here, 866 00:47:18,302 --> 00:47:20,903 so text me when you get in." 867 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,941 5:00 rolls by, and I started to worry. 868 00:47:26,043 --> 00:47:28,077 7:00, 8:00 rolls around, 869 00:47:28,178 --> 00:47:29,778 and I'm like, "Something is really wrong." 870 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,615 So I called Mustafa, 871 00:47:32,717 --> 00:47:35,784 and the first thing he said to me was, 872 00:47:35,886 --> 00:47:38,921 "Nicole, I'm so sorry. 873 00:47:39,023 --> 00:47:40,856 I didn't-- I couldn't do anything." 874 00:47:40,958 --> 00:47:43,058 I was like, "What are you talking about? What happened?" 875 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,294 He was like, "We were coming. We were in the taxi. 876 00:47:46,396 --> 00:47:48,097 We were coming to Turkey to meet you, 877 00:47:48,198 --> 00:47:52,567 and this van with these four guys with guns, 878 00:47:52,670 --> 00:47:54,402 they stopped us on the road 879 00:47:54,505 --> 00:47:56,271 and they told us to get out. 880 00:47:56,373 --> 00:47:59,708 And they were pointing their guns at us and screaming." 881 00:47:59,810 --> 00:48:03,879 The gunman made Mustafa tie up their hands, 882 00:48:03,981 --> 00:48:07,916 and they put John and Jim into the back of their van. 883 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,656 So, I hung up and I just started crying. 884 00:48:13,758 --> 00:48:15,390 I was like-- 885 00:48:19,463 --> 00:48:21,096 I didn't know if I was gonna see Jim again, 886 00:48:21,198 --> 00:48:24,033 and that was the first thought that came to my head. 887 00:48:29,907 --> 00:48:31,940 John, Sr.: It was almost surreal. 888 00:48:32,043 --> 00:48:34,777 This is a bad dream. It's not really happening. 889 00:48:34,879 --> 00:48:38,280 It's not happening. This can't be-- 890 00:48:38,382 --> 00:48:39,481 this can't happen again. 891 00:48:39,583 --> 00:48:41,817 We can't do this again. 892 00:48:45,089 --> 00:48:47,255 Yeah, it was-- 893 00:48:47,357 --> 00:48:49,424 I dove in just like before. 894 00:48:49,526 --> 00:48:52,594 I felt like, "Okay, it's going to be 45 to 100 days of hell, 895 00:48:52,697 --> 00:48:55,097 and then we'll have him back." 896 00:48:55,199 --> 00:48:58,133 In a matter of a week, you could tell it was very different. 897 00:48:58,235 --> 00:49:01,103 A lot of misinformation, as opposed to last time in Libya-- 898 00:49:01,205 --> 00:49:05,174 after a week went by we knew where he was, who to deal with, 899 00:49:05,275 --> 00:49:07,710 so we just concentrated on routes to get to one person. 900 00:49:07,812 --> 00:49:11,113 Here was a mystery right out of a crime show or something 901 00:49:11,215 --> 00:49:14,850 where you're trying to piece together bits of information. 902 00:49:14,952 --> 00:49:16,685 Nicole: For the next three weeks, 903 00:49:16,787 --> 00:49:19,788 there was just dead ends and false information 904 00:49:19,890 --> 00:49:22,524 and rumors and people being scared of talking 905 00:49:22,626 --> 00:49:26,795 because they had a suspicion of who maybe was responsible 906 00:49:26,897 --> 00:49:28,731 and they didn't want to get entangled in it. 907 00:49:28,833 --> 00:49:33,001 Diane: Phil Balboni offered to stand up 908 00:49:33,104 --> 00:49:35,170 a security team to try to find Jim. 909 00:49:35,272 --> 00:49:37,906 So, all these people were trying so hard 910 00:49:38,008 --> 00:49:40,675 to get in place, but it was a very, 911 00:49:40,778 --> 00:49:42,711 very chaotic, confusing time. 912 00:49:45,616 --> 00:49:49,417 John, Jr.: You're on eggshells. You're just waiting to hear. 913 00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:52,221 It's exhausting, and I know Jim felt guilty for that, 914 00:49:52,322 --> 00:49:55,924 and I'm not trying to make him feel more guilty, 915 00:49:56,026 --> 00:49:57,893 but it's just a toll 916 00:49:57,995 --> 00:50:02,330 that's taken by the families. 917 00:50:02,432 --> 00:50:04,266 Brian: What were the hurdles getting the White House 918 00:50:04,368 --> 00:50:05,834 and FBI involved? 919 00:50:05,936 --> 00:50:08,237 Michael: It was very tough to get action. 920 00:50:08,338 --> 00:50:10,472 And I understand that the world is a big place, 921 00:50:10,574 --> 00:50:13,742 and so I actually felt guilty sometimes 922 00:50:13,844 --> 00:50:16,611 trying not to ask too much of them. 923 00:50:16,713 --> 00:50:17,913 Jim made this decision, 924 00:50:17,982 --> 00:50:20,382 but just give it your best attention 925 00:50:20,484 --> 00:50:22,217 and we'll trust you. 926 00:50:22,319 --> 00:50:25,520 That's kind of where it started, the relationship. 927 00:50:25,622 --> 00:50:28,523 Then I met the first agent that came over 928 00:50:28,625 --> 00:50:32,394 and it was just a kid out of school, 929 00:50:32,496 --> 00:50:36,231 and his first question to me was had I asked the regime for assistance. 930 00:50:36,333 --> 00:50:38,066 Are you fucking kidding me? 931 00:50:38,169 --> 00:50:40,903 Have I called the regime and asked them for assistance? 932 00:50:41,005 --> 00:50:42,938 No, I hadn't thought of that. Thank you. 933 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,573 Thank you very much for that tip. 934 00:50:45,676 --> 00:50:48,710 They told us-- they advised us to be quiet, 935 00:50:48,813 --> 00:50:51,613 because hopefully they could find him 936 00:50:51,715 --> 00:50:53,048 and get him out and such. 937 00:50:53,150 --> 00:50:54,850 So we didn't say anything. 938 00:50:54,952 --> 00:50:57,552 We went through Christmas and all that 939 00:50:57,654 --> 00:51:01,190 not telling anyone but our closest family that Jim was missing. 940 00:51:03,460 --> 00:51:05,861 Tom: In some ways it was better 941 00:51:05,963 --> 00:51:08,897 because I didn't have to explain it. 942 00:51:08,999 --> 00:51:11,599 Because at times it could feel accusatory, 943 00:51:11,702 --> 00:51:13,836 like, "Well, he was in Syria." 944 00:51:13,938 --> 00:51:17,139 That's not fair. 945 00:51:17,241 --> 00:51:18,907 You don't do that with police or firemen 946 00:51:19,009 --> 00:51:20,508 or something like that who do dangerous jobs. 947 00:51:20,610 --> 00:51:21,844 You don't say, "Well, you were in a fire. 948 00:51:21,946 --> 00:51:23,812 What did you think would happen?" 949 00:51:23,914 --> 00:51:27,049 My friend doesn't need to explain why he's a journalist. 950 00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:32,287 Diane: Come the new year, I couldn't stand it. 951 00:51:32,389 --> 00:51:33,688 I was frantic. 952 00:51:33,790 --> 00:51:36,859 So we chose to go public. 953 00:51:36,961 --> 00:51:39,962 John, Sr.: I appeal to the people who have Jim 954 00:51:40,064 --> 00:51:44,233 to give us some information in terms of his welfare, his health. 955 00:51:44,335 --> 00:51:45,834 Diane: It breaks my heart 956 00:51:45,936 --> 00:51:49,637 that the persons who have captured him 957 00:51:49,740 --> 00:51:53,041 don't understand his goodness. 958 00:51:53,143 --> 00:51:57,045 My personal feeling is that silence helps two people. 959 00:51:57,147 --> 00:51:58,580 One is the government-- 960 00:51:58,682 --> 00:52:01,449 it doesn't push them to do more sooner-- 961 00:52:01,551 --> 00:52:02,885 and the captors. 962 00:52:02,987 --> 00:52:05,854 It allows them to do whatever they want. 963 00:52:05,956 --> 00:52:07,589 It's difficult now 964 00:52:07,691 --> 00:52:10,458 with all the talk about the Islamic State. 965 00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,596 They've become so famous or infamous. 966 00:52:14,698 --> 00:52:17,632 But the Islamic State, ISIS, ISIL, 967 00:52:17,701 --> 00:52:21,703 was on nobody's radar at the time. 968 00:52:21,805 --> 00:52:23,838 With a very high degree of confidence, 969 00:52:23,941 --> 00:52:27,175 we now believe that Jim was abducted 970 00:52:27,278 --> 00:52:29,244 by a pro-government militia group 971 00:52:29,346 --> 00:52:30,812 and was subsequently turned over 972 00:52:30,915 --> 00:52:32,480 to Syrian government forces. 973 00:52:32,582 --> 00:52:33,748 This is the first time 974 00:52:33,850 --> 00:52:35,817 we've really heard anything like this, 975 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,955 so we are very hopeful, like John says. 976 00:52:40,057 --> 00:52:42,490 Well, it turned out we were dead wrong about that. 977 00:52:44,694 --> 00:52:47,429 Michael: All the information up front was just a bunch of BS. 978 00:52:47,531 --> 00:52:49,398 No one knew what the heck they were talking about 979 00:52:49,499 --> 00:52:51,199 because we had no access. 980 00:52:51,302 --> 00:52:54,202 That whole year, I don't care what anyone says, 981 00:52:54,305 --> 00:52:56,071 all the efforts, all the leads, all this and that... 982 00:52:57,674 --> 00:53:00,809 we were in the wrong area of the country, you know? 983 00:53:00,911 --> 00:53:02,811 Syria is about the size of New England, maybe? 984 00:53:02,913 --> 00:53:04,879 A little smaller. So here you go, Brian. 985 00:53:04,982 --> 00:53:08,417 Go into New England. Find Jim. 986 00:53:08,518 --> 00:53:10,953 I think the moment that I learned that he had been kidnapped, 987 00:53:11,055 --> 00:53:15,090 I was just like, this is going to be a really long process. 988 00:53:15,192 --> 00:53:16,691 But I'm going to do anything 989 00:53:16,793 --> 00:53:19,461 that I can in my power to get him home. 990 00:53:19,563 --> 00:53:24,066 Because I can't stand the thought of him 991 00:53:24,168 --> 00:53:27,369 being in a cell somewhere cold and hungry. 992 00:53:27,471 --> 00:53:29,104 And I can't sit here 993 00:53:29,206 --> 00:53:31,039 and not try to look for him. 994 00:53:48,658 --> 00:53:50,325 Daniel: My name is Daniel, 995 00:53:50,427 --> 00:53:52,694 and I'm a Danish photojournalist. 996 00:53:53,897 --> 00:53:56,865 I started as a gymnast, 997 00:53:56,967 --> 00:53:59,534 and while I spent all my time in gyms 998 00:53:59,603 --> 00:54:02,037 all around the world doing gymnastics, 999 00:54:02,139 --> 00:54:04,772 I got bored when I didn't do anything else 1000 00:54:04,875 --> 00:54:06,808 and I started to take pictures. 1001 00:54:10,447 --> 00:54:15,417 I only planned to be inside Syria for two days. 1002 00:54:15,519 --> 00:54:18,520 I had one day of work 1003 00:54:18,622 --> 00:54:22,424 when I walked around this small quiet town. 1004 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,361 It was spring, 1005 00:54:26,430 --> 00:54:28,897 so the weather started to be very better, 1006 00:54:28,999 --> 00:54:32,934 and people seemed happy and relaxed 1007 00:54:33,037 --> 00:54:36,638 and we were told to go and speak 1008 00:54:36,740 --> 00:54:39,641 to some guys in the area. 1009 00:54:42,012 --> 00:54:43,811 Very calmly, we're sitting on sofas. 1010 00:54:43,914 --> 00:54:46,581 They were offering tea. 1011 00:54:46,683 --> 00:54:48,917 Everything was calm and quiet, 1012 00:54:49,019 --> 00:54:52,054 even though I knew that something was strange, 1013 00:54:52,156 --> 00:54:53,588 something was wrong. 1014 00:54:53,690 --> 00:54:56,858 And then they asked me to stand up 1015 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:58,860 and they took off my glasses, 1016 00:54:58,962 --> 00:55:03,265 and they just-- "Don't worry, this is just a procedure." 1017 00:55:05,902 --> 00:55:07,335 That was how everything began. 1018 00:55:07,438 --> 00:55:09,438 So, you know, a quiet Sunday 1019 00:55:09,540 --> 00:55:13,308 beautiful spring morning became a nightmare for me. 1020 00:55:21,518 --> 00:55:23,385 The longer you are a hostage, 1021 00:55:23,487 --> 00:55:26,054 the easier it becomes in some way, 1022 00:55:26,156 --> 00:55:27,522 the better you get at it. 1023 00:55:27,624 --> 00:55:29,424 And I had, like, I think, one, 1024 00:55:29,526 --> 00:55:31,593 one and half months by myself. 1025 00:55:31,695 --> 00:55:34,563 After, I believe, two and a half months, 1026 00:55:34,664 --> 00:55:38,200 I was put together with two other Westerners. 1027 00:55:38,302 --> 00:55:41,436 And then we were put together four. 1028 00:55:41,538 --> 00:55:42,904 I think we were five together, 1029 00:55:43,006 --> 00:55:44,339 and then seven together. 1030 00:55:44,441 --> 00:55:46,641 And then came another one-- eight. 1031 00:55:46,743 --> 00:55:48,810 Then it just started to evolve. 1032 00:56:00,124 --> 00:56:01,723 We were in that cell-- 1033 00:56:01,825 --> 00:56:04,493 British, Americans, 1034 00:56:04,595 --> 00:56:07,695 French, Italian, German, 1035 00:56:07,797 --> 00:56:10,532 Danish, Russian, Spanish. 1036 00:56:10,634 --> 00:56:12,734 We were 19 at one stage. 1037 00:57:53,403 --> 00:57:58,172 One day we had to sit faces to the wall, 1038 00:57:58,275 --> 00:58:00,475 but I could see under my arms. 1039 00:58:00,577 --> 00:58:03,712 I could see some mattresses were moved in, 1040 00:58:03,813 --> 00:58:07,515 and there came some guys in traditional Syrian clothes. 1041 00:58:07,584 --> 00:58:11,553 And then they closed the door again, the big metal door, 1042 00:58:11,655 --> 00:58:15,223 and I looked up, and there was James and John Cantlie. 1043 00:58:16,993 --> 00:58:19,227 Everybody was like, "Yay! Welcome! Welcome! Welcome!" 1044 00:58:19,329 --> 00:58:21,663 It's two new friends. 1045 00:58:21,765 --> 00:58:23,831 ( Pierre speaking ) 1046 00:58:31,508 --> 00:58:34,409 I created this picture in my head 1047 00:58:34,511 --> 00:58:37,178 of this big war journalist, 1048 00:58:37,281 --> 00:58:40,415 and so I could only get disappointed in a way. 1049 00:58:40,517 --> 00:58:43,184 But I remember him being like... 1050 00:58:45,188 --> 00:58:46,721 "What's happening?" 1051 00:58:46,823 --> 00:58:49,491 So that was basically the first time I met him. 1052 00:58:51,695 --> 00:58:53,261 But it was real different 1053 00:58:53,363 --> 00:58:55,730 to be put together with James and John, 1054 00:58:55,8198539

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