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1
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Michael:
I was in my office at work
2
00:00:28,896 --> 00:00:32,130
and I got a call
from an international number.
3
00:00:32,232 --> 00:00:33,999
Through the last
three years,
4
00:00:34,101 --> 00:00:36,902
when it was
an international call,
I'd answer it.
5
00:00:37,004 --> 00:00:38,904
It was a reporter in Dublin
6
00:00:41,008 --> 00:00:43,541
who wanted a reaction
to the story.
7
00:00:43,643 --> 00:00:46,444
I said,
"Reaction for what?"
8
00:00:46,546 --> 00:00:50,015
They were really caught back
by that question, obviously.
9
00:00:50,117 --> 00:00:54,652
And they said,
"I'll call you back
in five minutes."
10
00:00:54,754 --> 00:01:00,258
And so then I went online
and saw the picture.
11
00:01:05,632 --> 00:01:08,399
It's not the way
you want to find out.
12
00:01:08,501 --> 00:01:10,101
I never, ever imagined
13
00:01:10,204 --> 00:01:14,873
that it would end
in that fashion, right?
14
00:01:17,677 --> 00:01:20,745
For days that first week,
15
00:01:20,848 --> 00:01:23,882
I just would constantly see that image and...
16
00:01:26,086 --> 00:01:28,686
It's been tough.
17
00:01:28,788 --> 00:01:31,857
You go through those emotional swings.
18
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,328
"Why the hell
did you go back
that second time?"
19
00:01:36,429 --> 00:01:38,363
But I keep coming back
to the same answer.
20
00:02:07,861 --> 00:02:09,627
Host:
Name the sports newspaper
21
00:02:09,729 --> 00:02:12,197
that hit US newsstands in 1990.
22
00:02:12,299 --> 00:02:13,464
- ( buzzer sounds )
- James?
23
00:02:13,566 --> 00:02:15,566
- "The National."
- It was.
24
00:02:57,777 --> 00:02:59,144
Man:
Ladies and gentlemen,
25
00:02:59,246 --> 00:03:00,545
please help me welcome Mr. James Foley.
26
00:03:00,647 --> 00:03:03,982
( applause )
27
00:03:07,387 --> 00:03:09,654
Thanks for that generous--
28
00:03:09,756 --> 00:03:12,157
- overly generous...
- ( laughter )
29
00:03:12,259 --> 00:03:13,891
...introduction.
30
00:03:13,994 --> 00:03:16,727
I'm definitely
not a hero
31
00:03:16,830 --> 00:03:18,263
or noble or anything.
32
00:03:18,365 --> 00:03:21,833
I'm just trying
to do my woror
33
00:03:21,935 --> 00:03:24,769
and got into
a little bit of trouble.
34
00:03:24,871 --> 00:03:29,441
( men chanting )
35
00:03:29,542 --> 00:03:33,111
I arrived in Benghazi in mid-March,
36
00:03:33,213 --> 00:03:34,446
and the night I arrived,
37
00:03:34,547 --> 00:03:36,814
I heard nothing but bombs and gunfire.
38
00:03:36,916 --> 00:03:38,683
( men whooping )
39
00:03:38,785 --> 00:03:40,551
I wondered, "What's going on?"
40
00:03:40,653 --> 00:03:43,488
Another journalist said, "The bombs, that's gelatina.
41
00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:45,790
That's how they fish."
42
00:03:45,892 --> 00:03:47,359
( laughter )
43
00:03:47,461 --> 00:03:48,960
Blow the fish up.
44
00:03:49,062 --> 00:03:50,495
"And the gunfire?
45
00:03:50,597 --> 00:03:52,230
No, that's
celebratory gunfire."
46
00:03:52,332 --> 00:03:55,467
( gunfire )
47
00:03:55,568 --> 00:03:57,335
Jim:
If Gaddafi comes to Benghazi,
48
00:03:57,404 --> 00:03:59,871
are you guys prepared to fight?
49
00:04:14,754 --> 00:04:16,121
Diane:
I think in some ways
50
00:04:16,223 --> 00:04:18,789
Libya was a turning point for Jim.
51
00:04:18,892 --> 00:04:20,591
I was starting to see
52
00:04:20,693 --> 00:04:22,527
his trying to figure out
53
00:04:22,629 --> 00:04:24,695
where he belonged
in the world.
54
00:04:24,797 --> 00:04:26,998
He tried the Teach for America,
55
00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:31,336
and then Chicago he worked at the Cook County Jail.
56
00:04:31,438 --> 00:04:33,571
He anguished over his teaching.
57
00:04:33,673 --> 00:04:35,973
He didn't think he was a good enough teacher.
58
00:04:36,076 --> 00:04:39,610
He wanted to write and he loved people
59
00:04:39,712 --> 00:04:40,978
and liked to interact,
60
00:04:41,081 --> 00:04:42,347
tell people's stories.
61
00:04:42,449 --> 00:04:44,349
So when Jim decided
he wanted to go
62
00:04:44,451 --> 00:04:46,884
into journalism
from teaching,
63
00:04:46,986 --> 00:04:49,320
at first we thought
that would be good.
64
00:04:49,423 --> 00:04:51,389
"Maybe that'll be
a better fit, Jim."
65
00:04:51,491 --> 00:04:55,960
But when he decided
to do conflict journalism,
66
00:04:56,063 --> 00:04:57,795
that was a whole
different deal.
67
00:04:57,897 --> 00:05:00,432
Well, he didn't
exactly tell us.
68
00:05:00,534 --> 00:05:01,533
( laughs )
69
00:05:01,634 --> 00:05:04,869
He graduated from Medill
70
00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:07,372
and we said, "Jim, what are you going to do?"
71
00:05:07,474 --> 00:05:09,307
And he said,
"Well, I'm working on it."
72
00:05:09,409 --> 00:05:13,144
The next thing we knew,
he was going to go to Iraq
73
00:05:13,246 --> 00:05:15,513
embedded with
the Indiana National Guard.
74
00:05:18,785 --> 00:05:22,420
"Well, I guess I'm a conflict journalist at this point."
75
00:05:22,522 --> 00:05:24,956
So that's how we found out.
76
00:05:25,058 --> 00:05:27,825
( gunfire )
77
00:05:27,927 --> 00:05:29,561
Jim:
It's an all-out sprint,
78
00:05:29,662 --> 00:05:32,197
an exhilarating and dangerous run for cover.
79
00:05:32,299 --> 00:05:33,898
You got him?
80
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,568
John Jr.:
When Jim started the journalism path,
81
00:05:36,669 --> 00:05:42,207
we did have some heated
discussions on views
82
00:05:42,309 --> 00:05:44,075
and the military
and whatnot.
83
00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:47,979
My views are a little bit more conservative than Jim's.
84
00:05:48,081 --> 00:05:51,382
I would say a little bit more liberal.
85
00:05:51,485 --> 00:05:53,184
But when he did his embed,
86
00:05:53,286 --> 00:05:57,489
I think, is where we came closer together.
87
00:05:57,591 --> 00:05:59,090
Jim:
As soon as the shooting died down,
88
00:05:59,192 --> 00:06:02,227
the platoon discovered a body limp on the roof.
89
00:06:04,964 --> 00:06:07,031
Do they know who the guy is?
90
00:06:07,134 --> 00:06:09,134
Yes.
91
00:06:09,236 --> 00:06:10,401
His family members.
92
00:06:10,504 --> 00:06:12,203
- These are the family?
- Yeah.
93
00:06:22,015 --> 00:06:25,183
John, Jr.:
Then he came back to my house and he told me--
94
00:06:25,285 --> 00:06:29,621
he was like,
"John, I'm thinking about
going to Libya."
95
00:06:32,792 --> 00:06:35,660
I'm like, "Jim,
that's a horrible idea.
96
00:06:35,762 --> 00:06:39,964
That is absolutely a horrible idea.
97
00:06:40,066 --> 00:06:45,303
If you go over there,
no one's coming for you.
98
00:06:45,405 --> 00:06:48,039
Why would you put your life in danger?
99
00:06:48,141 --> 00:06:50,074
We're dropping bombs over there.
100
00:06:50,177 --> 00:06:52,743
And God forbid
if you go over there
101
00:06:52,845 --> 00:06:56,247
and we accidentally
kill you."
102
00:06:56,349 --> 00:07:00,251
I mean, why?
103
00:07:00,353 --> 00:07:02,420
Why?
104
00:07:02,522 --> 00:07:05,790
( chanting )
105
00:07:05,892 --> 00:07:07,625
Jim:
Libya was very exciting as a journalist
106
00:07:07,727 --> 00:07:10,061
because you had this chance
to talk directly to people,
107
00:07:10,163 --> 00:07:11,329
to see exactly
what was going on.
108
00:07:11,431 --> 00:07:13,665
( chanting )
109
00:07:13,766 --> 00:07:15,266
There were no US soldiers anymore.
110
00:07:15,368 --> 00:07:17,101
No organized army anymore telling you
111
00:07:17,204 --> 00:07:18,369
what you should and shouldn't do.
112
00:07:18,471 --> 00:07:19,737
( gunshots )
113
00:07:19,839 --> 00:07:22,307
But it was also
extremely dangerous.
114
00:07:22,409 --> 00:07:24,909
- ( shouting )
- ( gunfire )
115
00:07:25,011 --> 00:07:26,977
I was actually talking
to one of my buddies
116
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,779
boasting
about my brother Jim
117
00:07:28,915 --> 00:07:30,881
and how he's
this journalist
118
00:07:30,983 --> 00:07:34,285
and is super crazy,
but badass at the same time.
119
00:07:34,387 --> 00:07:36,987
I was like, "Yeah, my brother's a badass.
120
00:07:37,090 --> 00:07:38,789
He's crazy. He's awesome."
121
00:07:38,891 --> 00:07:40,525
I also was
very naive myself.
122
00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:42,159
I didn't know exactly
what that would mean.
123
00:07:42,262 --> 00:07:43,561
I didn't know
he was actually
124
00:07:43,663 --> 00:07:45,697
going to be immersed
in actual crossfire.
125
00:07:45,798 --> 00:07:47,599
- ( gunfire )
- There's snipers
in this building
126
00:07:47,701 --> 00:07:50,000
about one kilometer away.
127
00:07:50,103 --> 00:07:51,502
The group decided to go in.
128
00:07:51,605 --> 00:07:54,239
Heavy fighting.
129
00:07:54,341 --> 00:07:56,441
Heavy casualties.
About 30 wounded,
130
00:07:56,543 --> 00:07:59,510
two dead
as of this morning.
131
00:08:01,114 --> 00:08:02,380
Tom:
There's one video
132
00:08:02,482 --> 00:08:04,081
that always stands out to me.
133
00:08:04,183 --> 00:08:07,552
It's when he's standing
in the square.
134
00:08:07,654 --> 00:08:10,355
There does seem to be
a strong sense
135
00:08:10,457 --> 00:08:11,989
that they won't
give up the fight.
136
00:08:12,091 --> 00:08:14,959
And that they are a force of young fighting men.
137
00:08:15,061 --> 00:08:16,527
Although unorganized,
138
00:08:16,630 --> 00:08:20,498
there's plenty of will to hold out here.
139
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,099
How does my guy
know this stuff?
140
00:08:22,201 --> 00:08:23,735
How does Jim Foley--
141
00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:26,738
he's just my meathead friend, you know?
142
00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:31,376
It was so foreign to me
in terms of an experience.
143
00:08:31,478 --> 00:08:33,444
I'm like,
"How do you get into Libya?
144
00:08:33,546 --> 00:08:36,080
You're a freelancer?
Who wants this?
145
00:08:36,182 --> 00:08:37,982
Are you getting paid?"
146
00:08:38,084 --> 00:08:40,385
This is Jim Foley
reporting from downtown
Benghazi,
147
00:08:40,487 --> 00:08:43,354
Revolutionary Square,
"Global Post."
148
00:08:45,191 --> 00:08:48,393
Phil:
Jim was there at the early stage
149
00:08:48,495 --> 00:08:49,827
of this movement
of there being
150
00:08:49,929 --> 00:08:53,164
more freelancers
in conflict areas.
151
00:08:54,734 --> 00:08:57,702
The world has changed so much
152
00:08:57,804 --> 00:08:59,203
in terms of digital publishing
153
00:08:59,306 --> 00:09:03,207
and newspapers started
to eliminate things
154
00:09:03,310 --> 00:09:05,910
that they didn't see
as essential.
155
00:09:06,012 --> 00:09:09,380
International coverage dwindled down to very little,
156
00:09:09,482 --> 00:09:12,883
so we saw an opportunity to fill that void
157
00:09:12,985 --> 00:09:16,387
and we needed to work
with freelancers.
158
00:09:16,489 --> 00:09:18,556
Clare:
Freelancers decide to work together
159
00:09:18,658 --> 00:09:23,695
just on the basis of this
initial quick-read chemistry.
160
00:09:23,797 --> 00:09:28,098
I saw this new guy who I hadn't met before.
161
00:09:28,201 --> 00:09:30,435
He looked friendly enough,
so I said, "Hey, what's up?"
162
00:09:30,537 --> 00:09:34,071
He said, "Not much.
Going to the frontline."
163
00:09:34,173 --> 00:09:36,841
He's heard a lot about Libya
164
00:09:36,943 --> 00:09:39,977
and the fact that it was very cheap to work.
165
00:09:40,079 --> 00:09:44,148
Rebels and protestors were eager to show us their side of the story.
166
00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:46,584
They were driving us all over for free.
167
00:09:46,686 --> 00:09:50,221
They were translating for us for free.
168
00:09:50,323 --> 00:09:53,491
Many of us never really
experienced the luxury
169
00:09:53,593 --> 00:09:55,893
of journalism
in its heyday.
170
00:09:55,995 --> 00:09:59,364
What we do is journalism
on a shoestring budget.
171
00:09:59,466 --> 00:10:03,501
So we've had to be a lot more resourceful in a way
172
00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:06,003
and just more street savvy.
173
00:10:06,105 --> 00:10:09,707
I think, in a sense,
the way we all got
to know each other
174
00:10:09,809 --> 00:10:12,543
was the Africa Hotel
in Benghazi.
175
00:10:12,645 --> 00:10:15,680
It was the cheapest hotel, and the crappiest,
176
00:10:15,782 --> 00:10:17,348
and we were all
staying there.
177
00:10:24,758 --> 00:10:27,792
I'd seen Jim talking
to a few other journalists,
178
00:10:27,894 --> 00:10:31,095
and he was just really friendly with everybody.
179
00:10:31,197 --> 00:10:33,030
It was unusual in a place like that.
180
00:10:33,132 --> 00:10:35,900
There's still an edge
of competitiveness
in that environment,
181
00:10:36,002 --> 00:10:38,903
whereas Jim was just like,
"Yeah, whatever."
182
00:10:39,005 --> 00:10:41,205
He gave off a really good first impression,
183
00:10:41,307 --> 00:10:44,241
and it helps
that he's a super
good-looking guy.
184
00:10:44,343 --> 00:10:47,678
I was just like,
"Who is this guy?
Who are you?"
185
00:10:50,750 --> 00:10:55,119
There wasn't anything mundane about the man whatsoever.
186
00:10:55,221 --> 00:10:57,988
He never really
projected himself
onto a situation
187
00:10:58,090 --> 00:11:01,992
and he dealt well with people.
188
00:11:02,094 --> 00:11:04,161
Jim:
Who are the Libyan rebels
189
00:11:04,263 --> 00:11:06,697
determined to overthrow 42 years of dictatorship?
190
00:11:12,639 --> 00:11:14,038
- Offshore welder.
- Platform, yes.
191
00:11:14,140 --> 00:11:16,574
Okay. Dangerous job.
192
00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:18,075
( laughs )
193
00:11:18,177 --> 00:11:19,844
Jim:
They're brave as individuals,
194
00:11:19,946 --> 00:11:22,914
but many show a dangerous lack of weapons training.
195
00:11:24,851 --> 00:11:26,417
Clare:
There were so many freelancers
196
00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:28,319
who came in at that point in time
197
00:11:28,421 --> 00:11:31,288
who were so new, Jim and I among them,
198
00:11:31,390 --> 00:11:34,759
and I found out only later
that there were a number
199
00:11:34,861 --> 00:11:37,528
of much more experienced
photojournalists
200
00:11:37,597 --> 00:11:40,130
who had made one or two trips to the frontline
201
00:11:40,232 --> 00:11:43,167
and said, "Fuck it.
This is way too dangerous."
202
00:11:46,005 --> 00:11:48,205
( Manu speaking )
203
00:12:26,278 --> 00:12:28,145
Jim had a high tolerance
for danger.
204
00:12:28,247 --> 00:12:31,115
- ( explosion )
- Jim: Shit.
205
00:12:31,217 --> 00:12:34,685
Sure, he was drawn to that.
All of us are, in a way.
206
00:12:34,787 --> 00:12:36,320
He was cool as a cucumber
as well,
207
00:12:36,422 --> 00:12:40,591
wearing this little tiny vest he used to wear.
208
00:12:40,693 --> 00:12:43,027
Clare:
The fact that he stayed so calm
209
00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:47,297
made it easy to feel calm in that situation.
210
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,800
But, of course,
sometimes I was just like,
211
00:12:49,903 --> 00:12:52,136
"That's crazy.
I'm not going there with you."
212
00:12:55,341 --> 00:12:57,074
Jim:
I would come back to Benghazi
213
00:12:57,176 --> 00:12:59,143
and there was stuff going on there.
214
00:12:59,245 --> 00:13:00,878
There was families
215
00:13:00,980 --> 00:13:03,514
and they were out there in the protests,
216
00:13:03,616 --> 00:13:06,450
and they were out there maybe handling medical supplies,
217
00:13:06,553 --> 00:13:08,653
which is probably
more important
218
00:13:08,755 --> 00:13:10,655
to what this
revolutionary movement was.
219
00:13:10,757 --> 00:13:14,091
But then being called out to that frontline again
220
00:13:14,193 --> 00:13:18,095
like some kind of siren song...
221
00:13:21,534 --> 00:13:23,768
It was one of those mornings where we decided
222
00:13:23,870 --> 00:13:25,770
we were gonna get out there early.
223
00:13:25,872 --> 00:13:27,404
We wanted to get a fresh look at the frontlines.
224
00:13:27,506 --> 00:13:29,640
It was myself, Clare Gillis,
225
00:13:29,742 --> 00:13:32,043
Manu Brabo, and Anton Hammerl,
226
00:13:32,144 --> 00:13:33,945
a South African photojournalist.
227
00:13:34,047 --> 00:13:36,080
- Meet my friend!
- Anton.
228
00:13:36,148 --> 00:13:37,715
Anton!
229
00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:39,850
Jim:
And what it was, really, was just a highway,
230
00:13:39,953 --> 00:13:42,086
a coastal highway going all across Libya.
231
00:13:42,188 --> 00:13:44,455
And this is where the battle was going on.
232
00:13:44,557 --> 00:13:48,059
So it was kind of like a Mad Max type war.
233
00:13:49,963 --> 00:13:52,396
This was something common that some reporters did.
234
00:13:52,498 --> 00:13:54,465
Freelancers like myself who didn't have big budgets,
235
00:13:54,567 --> 00:13:56,767
we'd jump in with the rebels.
236
00:13:56,869 --> 00:14:00,304
It was at your own risk if you wanted to go further or not.
237
00:14:02,508 --> 00:14:05,710
We got to the point where we saw another group of rebels
238
00:14:05,812 --> 00:14:09,013
saying Gaddafi forces are 300 meters away.
239
00:14:09,115 --> 00:14:10,380
And myself,
looking at Clare,
240
00:14:10,483 --> 00:14:12,449
like,
"That's impossible."
241
00:14:12,551 --> 00:14:15,486
I remember Anton turning to me
242
00:14:15,588 --> 00:14:18,255
and saying, "Hey, this isn't safe."
243
00:14:18,357 --> 00:14:21,692
But we didn't turn around.
244
00:14:21,794 --> 00:14:25,162
We said, "Let's get off the road anyways."
245
00:14:25,264 --> 00:14:27,231
That was the exact
wrong thing to do.
246
00:14:27,333 --> 00:14:31,836
Two heavily armed Gaddafi pickup trucks
247
00:14:31,938 --> 00:14:34,538
came over that rise firing.
248
00:14:36,609 --> 00:14:37,942
I remember so clearly
249
00:14:38,044 --> 00:14:40,745
the sound of it, the volume of it,
250
00:14:40,847 --> 00:14:44,749
the sound of something heating metal.
251
00:14:44,851 --> 00:14:47,284
And I remember hoping against hope
252
00:14:47,386 --> 00:14:50,154
that there would be some kind of out out of this,
253
00:14:50,256 --> 00:14:53,724
there was some kind of trapdoor in time.
254
00:14:57,697 --> 00:15:00,364
I crawled back to the sand dune.
255
00:15:00,466 --> 00:15:02,700
Anton was at the other sand dune in front of me.
256
00:15:02,802 --> 00:15:04,635
I heard him call for help.
257
00:15:06,438 --> 00:15:09,406
It appeared he was cut across the midsection with AK fire,
258
00:15:09,508 --> 00:15:11,475
and there was a serious amount of blood.
259
00:15:11,577 --> 00:15:12,910
He had already lost consciousness
260
00:15:13,012 --> 00:15:14,611
and probably already died.
261
00:15:19,351 --> 00:15:21,852
A group of young soldiers approached me
262
00:15:21,954 --> 00:15:24,822
and we were thrown in the back of a truck.
263
00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:28,726
I remember
getting photographed
with a cell phone
264
00:15:28,828 --> 00:15:32,797
and thinking this is where they find all these photographs
265
00:15:32,899 --> 00:15:35,900
that are evidence of war crimes someday,
266
00:15:35,968 --> 00:15:38,435
and realizing this is me now.
267
00:15:46,979 --> 00:15:48,579
Diane:
I was with my mother.
268
00:15:48,681 --> 00:15:51,182
We were out to lunch and I received a phone call.
269
00:15:51,283 --> 00:15:56,220
And that's how
we first heard, you know?
270
00:15:56,322 --> 00:15:59,156
I think I was in denial
about how dangerous
271
00:15:59,258 --> 00:16:03,127
this really was, Brian.
272
00:16:03,229 --> 00:16:06,363
I was furious,
273
00:16:06,465 --> 00:16:08,365
just furious.
274
00:16:08,467 --> 00:16:10,634
Scared for him,
furious.
275
00:16:10,737 --> 00:16:13,003
I hate to revisit
it, but it was like,
276
00:16:13,106 --> 00:16:15,806
"I told you, Jim."
277
00:16:15,908 --> 00:16:19,977
I think we all
went through the stages
of total shock
278
00:16:20,079 --> 00:16:24,448
and then just,
"What are we going to do?"
279
00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:26,316
And then anger.
280
00:16:26,418 --> 00:16:28,886
After all,
we're family, you know?
281
00:16:32,258 --> 00:16:34,024
Jim:
You're so humbled.
282
00:16:34,127 --> 00:16:35,893
You lost everything--
283
00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:38,662
your freedom, your control,
284
00:16:38,765 --> 00:16:40,530
your ability to talk to anybody
285
00:16:40,633 --> 00:16:41,899
and tell anybody you're okay.
286
00:16:42,001 --> 00:16:43,700
Thinking one minute, "Oh, yeah,
287
00:16:43,803 --> 00:16:45,602
I'm a foreign correspondent."
288
00:16:45,704 --> 00:16:49,373
The next minute, somebody who you respect killed
289
00:16:49,475 --> 00:16:52,042
and you have nothing.
290
00:16:56,015 --> 00:16:58,548
Clare:
Jim was concerned
291
00:16:58,651 --> 00:17:01,451
that his own competitiveness
292
00:17:01,553 --> 00:17:04,155
with Manu, with Anton,
with himself,
293
00:17:04,257 --> 00:17:07,691
his own sort of
macho aggressiveness
294
00:17:07,794 --> 00:17:10,127
had driven him
to make decisions
295
00:17:10,229 --> 00:17:11,762
that were not
the best decisions.
296
00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:14,498
We were all questioning our judgment.
297
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,868
One of the main things that affected all of us
298
00:17:17,970 --> 00:17:23,674
is that Anton had kids and none of us do.
299
00:17:23,776 --> 00:17:26,177
Jim:
Every day I have to deal with the fact
300
00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:30,514
that Anton is not going to ever see his three kids anymore,
301
00:17:30,616 --> 00:17:33,284
and I was part of that
decision-making process...
302
00:17:35,922 --> 00:17:37,288
that took him away--
303
00:17:37,389 --> 00:17:39,890
that took him away
from his kids and his wife.
304
00:17:44,163 --> 00:17:46,430
( Manu speaking )
305
00:17:55,341 --> 00:17:58,342
Jim:
I had a lot of time to play over those moments,
306
00:17:58,444 --> 00:18:01,478
especially that one day when we were captured.
307
00:18:01,580 --> 00:18:04,014
I tried to question myself. "What are you reporting on?
308
00:18:04,116 --> 00:18:06,217
What is this all about?"
309
00:18:06,319 --> 00:18:07,952
It was quickly apparent
310
00:18:08,054 --> 00:18:10,587
that this was about being what you think
311
00:18:10,689 --> 00:18:12,890
is an authentic conflict correspondent,
312
00:18:12,992 --> 00:18:15,392
seeing the frontline, and it not being enough
313
00:18:15,494 --> 00:18:17,627
to just see it from a distance,
314
00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:19,930
but to push it to the next level.
315
00:18:20,032 --> 00:18:22,233
You were basically waiting to get shelled,
316
00:18:22,335 --> 00:18:25,602
and the question is,
"Why?"
317
00:18:25,704 --> 00:18:27,738
You know,
"Why are you doing this?"
318
00:18:31,610 --> 00:18:33,744
Michael:
A lot of us were just scratching our head, right?
319
00:18:33,846 --> 00:18:36,480
There's no money. Maybe you get a story
320
00:18:36,582 --> 00:18:38,082
here and there that you sell.
321
00:18:38,184 --> 00:18:40,251
I used to loan him money.
322
00:18:40,353 --> 00:18:43,620
My credit report has one ding on it,
323
00:18:43,722 --> 00:18:47,091
and it's the one loan
that I cosigned with Jim.
324
00:18:47,193 --> 00:18:52,529
I think Jimmy was just
a little outside the lines.
325
00:18:52,631 --> 00:18:54,564
He was wicked disorganized.
326
00:18:54,666 --> 00:18:56,367
Mark:
We had to tell him to come to dinner.
327
00:18:56,468 --> 00:18:59,503
If dinner was at 5:00,
we'd tell him it was at 3:00.
328
00:18:59,605 --> 00:19:01,305
so he'd show up at 5:00.
329
00:19:01,407 --> 00:19:03,207
He always lives
in the moment.
330
00:19:03,309 --> 00:19:04,808
I don't know if Mike ever told you
331
00:19:04,911 --> 00:19:07,344
that Jim was late to his wedding.
332
00:19:07,446 --> 00:19:09,479
"John, can I sleep
at your house?
333
00:19:09,581 --> 00:19:12,116
John, can my friend stay at your house?"
334
00:19:12,218 --> 00:19:15,585
"Yes, Jim, yes."
335
00:19:15,687 --> 00:19:18,855
Even though you were like,
"Jim, just wake up!
336
00:19:18,958 --> 00:19:20,891
Wake up!
What are you doing?
337
00:19:20,993 --> 00:19:22,159
Get a real job.
338
00:19:22,261 --> 00:19:25,229
Start saving up for retirement."
339
00:19:25,331 --> 00:19:27,932
I remember I said, "Why don't
you come to Chicago?
340
00:19:28,034 --> 00:19:29,833
My dad runs this boot camp
341
00:19:29,936 --> 00:19:32,102
that's teaching young felons."
342
00:19:32,204 --> 00:19:33,870
He goes there for the interview and I call him afterwards
343
00:19:33,973 --> 00:19:35,739
and I'm like,
"How'd the interview go?"
344
00:19:35,841 --> 00:19:38,875
He's like, "It was great.
I think it went great."
345
00:19:38,978 --> 00:19:40,644
I call my dad and he goes,
346
00:19:40,746 --> 00:19:42,212
"He said it went great,
did he?
347
00:19:42,315 --> 00:19:44,614
Because I just talked to
the lady at the hiring board,
348
00:19:44,716 --> 00:19:47,484
and when she went out there,
she found Jim sleeping
349
00:19:47,586 --> 00:19:49,519
with his head back on the wall
350
00:19:49,621 --> 00:19:51,088
and he's wearing jeans with paint or something all over them."
351
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:52,923
I call Jim back.
I'm like, "Jim,
352
00:19:53,025 --> 00:19:54,891
what the hell happened
at the interview?"
353
00:19:54,994 --> 00:19:56,626
He's like,
"It was hot in there, Tom.
354
00:19:56,728 --> 00:19:59,063
It was hot.
I just put my head back
and I nodded off."
355
00:19:59,165 --> 00:20:01,131
I'm like,
"Did you have jeans on
with paint?"
356
00:20:01,233 --> 00:20:03,367
And he's like, "Yeah, they had these symbols on them.
357
00:20:03,469 --> 00:20:05,735
What was I supposed to wear?"
I'm like, "Jim, it's
an interview.
358
00:20:05,838 --> 00:20:07,737
It's an interview.
You can't do this."
359
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,674
So my dad always says that Jim had a million-dollar resume
360
00:20:10,776 --> 00:20:13,410
and a 10-cent interview.
361
00:20:13,512 --> 00:20:16,180
He came and he started teaching reading and writing,
362
00:20:16,282 --> 00:20:19,549
some literature, and he was really good with these kids,
363
00:20:19,651 --> 00:20:21,718
because Jim was into
hip-hop and rap
364
00:20:21,820 --> 00:20:23,920
and he liked to grab a mic himself.
365
00:20:24,023 --> 00:20:25,655
Jim connected
with these guys.
366
00:20:25,757 --> 00:20:27,891
He'd find out
about their backgrounds,
talk to them.
367
00:20:27,994 --> 00:20:29,626
I think that
really hit him.
368
00:20:29,728 --> 00:20:31,261
He was seeing young guys
369
00:20:31,364 --> 00:20:33,263
that came from terrible neighborhoods
370
00:20:33,366 --> 00:20:34,898
that never really had a chance.
371
00:20:35,001 --> 00:20:36,533
I think he started seeing
372
00:20:36,635 --> 00:20:38,802
there are people who need their stories told.
373
00:20:43,075 --> 00:20:45,942
Jim:
The prison that we were transferred to
374
00:20:46,045 --> 00:20:49,713
was filled with all these political prisoners from all walks of life.
375
00:20:49,815 --> 00:20:51,882
Some were fishermen, some were engineers.
376
00:20:51,984 --> 00:20:54,218
It was the warmth of these Libyans that said,
377
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,053
"Here you're our guest.
Take this bed.
378
00:20:56,155 --> 00:20:57,754
You don't have a cigarette?
Here's a cigarette."
379
00:20:57,856 --> 00:20:59,456
"You want an extra piece
of chicken? Here."
380
00:21:01,460 --> 00:21:03,494
These guys understand that I'm a journalist
381
00:21:03,595 --> 00:21:05,262
and I'm trying to get the truth,
382
00:21:05,364 --> 00:21:07,197
and perhaps wrongly
they think I'm on their side,
383
00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:09,266
but I certainly
feel like it now.
384
00:21:09,368 --> 00:21:11,801
( chanting over P.A. )
385
00:21:16,808 --> 00:21:18,608
You know that if you are kind of without hope,
386
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:20,310
you're totally humbled,
387
00:21:20,413 --> 00:21:23,547
you tend to go to your faith if you have faith.
388
00:21:23,649 --> 00:21:26,250
Praying five times a day-- it was the life.
389
00:21:26,352 --> 00:21:29,086
It was their only source of life in prison.
390
00:21:29,188 --> 00:21:31,355
I was up nights talking to them.
391
00:21:31,457 --> 00:21:33,990
Eventually, one of them said, "Why don't you pray with us?"
392
00:21:34,060 --> 00:21:35,959
And I said,
"No, I'll pray to Isa.
393
00:21:36,062 --> 00:21:37,594
I pray to Jesus
when you guys are praying."
394
00:21:37,696 --> 00:21:40,897
He sort of looked at me
like, "Okay."
395
00:21:40,999 --> 00:21:43,167
I guess I'm an experiential person,
396
00:21:43,269 --> 00:21:44,968
so I started praying with them.
397
00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:52,309
Little did I know,
I just proclaimed my
conversion to Islam.
398
00:21:52,411 --> 00:21:54,111
( laughter )
399
00:21:54,213 --> 00:21:58,148
So from then on out,
I prayed with them
five times a day.
400
00:21:58,250 --> 00:22:01,285
And it was just-- it was so powerful,
401
00:22:01,387 --> 00:22:03,887
and it was something that I needed to do.
402
00:22:03,989 --> 00:22:05,355
But it was difficult.
403
00:22:05,458 --> 00:22:08,024
I was thinking,
"Jesus, am I praying to Allah?
404
00:22:08,127 --> 00:22:11,428
Am I violating
my belief in you?"
405
00:22:11,530 --> 00:22:13,464
I don't have an answer to that.
406
00:22:13,566 --> 00:22:15,732
I just know that I was authentically praying with them
407
00:22:15,834 --> 00:22:18,469
and I was authentically also praying to Jesus.
408
00:22:22,708 --> 00:22:25,775
Michael:
Jim and I were very close in age,
409
00:22:25,877 --> 00:22:29,480
look enough alike that I used his ID in college,
410
00:22:29,582 --> 00:22:30,880
but that's about it.
411
00:22:30,983 --> 00:22:32,616
We couldn't be more different.
412
00:22:32,718 --> 00:22:36,086
Jim was really different
from most of us, right?
413
00:22:36,188 --> 00:22:38,489
I mean, to do what he went on to do,
414
00:22:38,591 --> 00:22:41,024
it's not a normal path.
415
00:22:41,127 --> 00:22:43,227
When Jim was taken in Libya,
416
00:22:43,329 --> 00:22:45,996
I just went into overdrive at that point.
417
00:22:46,098 --> 00:22:48,665
It's a nightmare.
Each day it becomes harder
418
00:22:48,767 --> 00:22:50,534
with the lack
of information.
419
00:22:50,636 --> 00:22:52,236
We know he's in Tripoli.
420
00:22:52,338 --> 00:22:54,004
We believe he's in a detention center.
421
00:22:54,106 --> 00:22:57,608
We really don't know much more beyond that.
422
00:22:57,709 --> 00:23:00,611
We organized this huge group
of Jimmy's friends.
423
00:23:00,712 --> 00:23:02,679
We called them FOJs--
friends of Jim.
424
00:23:02,781 --> 00:23:04,414
We had a lot of outside help,
425
00:23:04,517 --> 00:23:06,316
but Michael was sort of the CEO of the group.
426
00:23:06,418 --> 00:23:09,052
His statement was
there are no measurables
427
00:23:09,155 --> 00:23:10,954
other than getting
Jim home.
428
00:23:11,056 --> 00:23:14,891
Our biggest fear
is that it becomes
yesterday's story
429
00:23:14,993 --> 00:23:16,793
and people forget about it.
430
00:23:16,895 --> 00:23:18,995
We love Jim and we miss him.
431
00:23:19,097 --> 00:23:21,064
We want him home.
432
00:23:23,135 --> 00:23:24,668
Brian:
Tell me about the release.
433
00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:26,870
What was that day like for you guys?
434
00:23:28,907 --> 00:23:31,107
Reporter:
After successful diplomatic negotiations,
435
00:23:31,210 --> 00:23:34,611
two American journalists and a Spanish journalist are finally going home
436
00:23:34,713 --> 00:23:36,313
after being kidnapped and detained
437
00:23:36,415 --> 00:23:38,282
by the Libyan government forces for 44 days.
438
00:23:38,384 --> 00:23:40,050
- What is your name?
- Manu Brabo.
439
00:23:40,152 --> 00:23:42,319
- Were you okay?
Were you looked after?
- I'm fine.
440
00:23:42,421 --> 00:23:44,988
If you didn't catch
it the first time around,
441
00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:46,490
get it from your buddy.
442
00:23:46,592 --> 00:23:49,259
Guys, could you please
give them some space?
443
00:23:51,263 --> 00:23:53,230
Michael:
What was really interesting about that whole process,
444
00:23:53,332 --> 00:23:56,099
there was a day
where we were making
some progress
445
00:23:56,202 --> 00:23:58,468
and I just decided
that I have to go.
446
00:23:58,571 --> 00:24:00,070
I have to get on
a plane and go.
447
00:24:00,172 --> 00:24:02,506
I don't know. I can't describe it.
448
00:24:02,608 --> 00:24:05,108
But I knew-- at least felt strongly--
449
00:24:05,211 --> 00:24:08,579
that it was going to work out.
450
00:24:08,681 --> 00:24:11,281
All the security guys wanted to debrief him first,
451
00:24:11,383 --> 00:24:12,683
and finally I said, "Enough of this shit"
452
00:24:12,784 --> 00:24:14,918
and just went into
the hotel room.
453
00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:17,521
I remember seeing Jim,
he had a full beard,
454
00:24:17,623 --> 00:24:20,890
and he just grabbed me
and said, "Mike."
455
00:24:20,992 --> 00:24:23,760
We both kind of just grabbed each other's arms,
456
00:24:23,862 --> 00:24:26,062
like, just to-- is it real?
457
00:24:26,164 --> 00:24:27,531
I ordered pizza
458
00:24:27,633 --> 00:24:29,266
and as many Heinekens
as they could put in a car
459
00:24:29,368 --> 00:24:31,000
and about two packs
of cigarettes
460
00:24:31,103 --> 00:24:32,736
because I knew that's all they had over there.
461
00:24:32,838 --> 00:24:37,341
I looked at them and I said,
"I guess I got this one,"
462
00:24:37,443 --> 00:24:39,142
and we just stayed up all night.
463
00:24:42,348 --> 00:24:43,880
Katie:
All the family and friends,
464
00:24:43,982 --> 00:24:46,383
we're all together waiting for them.
465
00:24:48,721 --> 00:24:50,287
And all of a sudden we see
466
00:24:50,389 --> 00:24:53,690
these blue lights just rushing at us.
467
00:24:53,792 --> 00:24:55,091
( sirens blaring )
468
00:24:55,193 --> 00:24:56,793
We're like,
"Oh, my God, this is Jim.
469
00:24:56,895 --> 00:24:59,162
This is--
he's actually here."
470
00:24:59,265 --> 00:25:01,164
I don't know, it was like a movie.
471
00:25:01,267 --> 00:25:03,967
He was so happy to see everybody.
472
00:25:19,117 --> 00:25:21,117
Jim:
You have a close call.
473
00:25:21,219 --> 00:25:23,119
That's pure luck that you didn't get killed there.
474
00:25:23,221 --> 00:25:26,990
It's not worth seeing your mother or father bawling
475
00:25:27,092 --> 00:25:29,660
and worrying about your grandmother dying
476
00:25:29,762 --> 00:25:30,927
because you're in prison.
477
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:32,896
It's not worth these things.
478
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:37,167
And outside, in my parents' home
479
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:39,403
in a comfortable house
in New Hampshire,
480
00:25:39,505 --> 00:25:41,672
I sort of had
to start processing.
481
00:25:41,774 --> 00:25:43,540
I was horrified to learn
482
00:25:43,642 --> 00:25:45,442
how much my friends and family had done to help me.
483
00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:47,076
I was inspired and I was horrified.
484
00:25:47,179 --> 00:25:50,847
It was a weird feeling of,
like, going to your own funeral.
485
00:25:53,885 --> 00:25:56,420
There's no going back from something like this.
486
00:25:58,857 --> 00:26:00,424
Some of the things I'll never be able to change,
487
00:26:00,526 --> 00:26:02,793
but I wish-- I wish that I could.
488
00:26:12,571 --> 00:26:14,170
- This is--
- What are you gonna do?
489
00:26:14,272 --> 00:26:16,172
This is Jim's blazer from
when he spoke at Marquette,
490
00:26:16,274 --> 00:26:17,407
this brown one.
491
00:26:19,812 --> 00:26:22,111
Bunch of stuff
to go through.
492
00:26:23,682 --> 00:26:26,650
Yeah, so Jim lived with us
for, what, three months?
493
00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:29,453
Summer after he was
released from Libya.
494
00:26:29,555 --> 00:26:33,690
Summer until-- yeah,
up until he went back.
495
00:26:33,792 --> 00:26:35,492
Used to have all
his clothes in here.
496
00:26:35,594 --> 00:26:38,862
You can still see
his CamelBak from
the field.
497
00:26:38,964 --> 00:26:41,598
- Sleeping bags.
- All his sleeping bags.
498
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:43,433
Yeah.
499
00:26:43,535 --> 00:26:45,134
That was his bed
right there.
500
00:26:45,237 --> 00:26:48,705
He'd always
crash out there.
501
00:26:48,807 --> 00:26:50,474
So it was cool having Jim here,
502
00:26:50,576 --> 00:26:52,709
especially after him
having been gone in Libya,
503
00:26:52,811 --> 00:26:56,246
because I think
when he came back,
504
00:26:56,348 --> 00:26:58,849
you just wanted
to touch him a lot.
505
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:01,951
Because, I don't know, for me it was like, poke,
506
00:27:02,053 --> 00:27:03,387
and just make sure he's real.
507
00:27:03,489 --> 00:27:04,888
It was almost--
508
00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:06,623
you're just more appreciative of him,
509
00:27:06,725 --> 00:27:09,393
especially with the kids
getting to have him here
510
00:27:09,495 --> 00:27:12,262
because he was always on the go.
511
00:27:12,364 --> 00:27:14,364
They loved their Uncle Jim.
512
00:27:14,466 --> 00:27:17,734
They'd come downstairs at the crack of dawn and wake him up.
513
00:27:17,836 --> 00:27:20,937
It was good as much as it--
514
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:23,206
I think he had an itch
he couldn't scratch
515
00:27:23,308 --> 00:27:25,108
when he was domesticated.
516
00:27:29,381 --> 00:27:31,180
Phil:
When Jim came back from Libya,
517
00:27:31,283 --> 00:27:35,118
I offered him
a full-time job here
as an editor,
518
00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:40,156
while he sorted out
what he would do next.
519
00:27:40,258 --> 00:27:44,561
He sat right outside
my office.
520
00:27:44,663 --> 00:27:47,030
He was grateful to have the job,
521
00:27:47,132 --> 00:27:49,699
but working in an office
522
00:27:49,802 --> 00:27:54,404
was clearly not
what he liked the most.
523
00:27:54,506 --> 00:27:57,507
He was quiet.
524
00:27:57,609 --> 00:28:00,444
I don't want to say he was withdrawn,
525
00:28:00,546 --> 00:28:02,579
but he was quiet.
526
00:28:04,483 --> 00:28:06,316
Katie:
And I just remember Brad--
527
00:28:06,418 --> 00:28:09,152
my fianc�-- and Jim were in the basement,
528
00:28:09,254 --> 00:28:12,556
and Brad doesn't
even remember a time
529
00:28:12,658 --> 00:28:14,123
where Jim was sleeping.
530
00:28:14,225 --> 00:28:17,126
After the family had kind of settled down,
531
00:28:17,228 --> 00:28:20,096
Jim just went right to business, right to work.
532
00:28:20,198 --> 00:28:24,668
Diane:
We had found him a very good psychologist to talk to,
533
00:28:24,770 --> 00:28:27,637
but he seemed so well,
if you will,
534
00:28:27,739 --> 00:28:29,639
that we didn't push it.
535
00:28:29,741 --> 00:28:32,108
But he was so restless
here at home.
536
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:33,944
He didn't want to be here at home.
537
00:28:37,516 --> 00:28:39,382
Jim:
Feeling like you survived something,
538
00:28:39,485 --> 00:28:41,417
it has a strange sort of force
539
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,454
that you are drawn back to.
540
00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:46,890
I think that's
the absolute reality.
541
00:28:51,296 --> 00:28:53,463
Zac:
Everything else becomes foreign.
542
00:28:53,565 --> 00:28:56,600
It was strange coming back
to the real world.
543
00:28:56,702 --> 00:29:00,303
It was weird.
It was normal in there.
544
00:29:00,405 --> 00:29:02,973
Clare:
Yeah, if I go to Wal-Mart and I'm looking at
545
00:29:03,074 --> 00:29:07,243
literally an entire aisle full of Tupperware,
546
00:29:07,345 --> 00:29:08,812
it boggles my mind.
547
00:29:08,914 --> 00:29:12,315
There's a deep absurdity
548
00:29:12,417 --> 00:29:16,319
to understanding the peace
549
00:29:16,421 --> 00:29:19,422
that we're lucky enough to have in this country
550
00:29:19,525 --> 00:29:21,892
and the questions that it raises
551
00:29:21,994 --> 00:29:24,427
about how do we make our money,
552
00:29:24,530 --> 00:29:26,830
what is the basis of our peace,
553
00:29:26,932 --> 00:29:29,165
of our economic viability,
554
00:29:29,267 --> 00:29:32,869
of the fact that I can look at all of this Tupperware
555
00:29:32,971 --> 00:29:35,605
and someone else somewhere else
556
00:29:35,707 --> 00:29:38,008
is looking at the ruins of their home.
557
00:29:40,311 --> 00:29:41,811
Zac:
You start missing all the bombs
558
00:29:41,914 --> 00:29:43,713
and the fighting and everything.
559
00:29:43,815 --> 00:29:45,515
I just used to love sitting up at night
560
00:29:45,617 --> 00:29:47,316
and just listening.
561
00:29:47,419 --> 00:29:49,553
( gunfire )
562
00:29:49,655 --> 00:29:51,187
It's really kind of sick.
563
00:29:51,289 --> 00:29:53,456
- ( explosions )
- But it also--
564
00:29:53,559 --> 00:29:56,426
it feels super fortunate for being there.
565
00:29:56,528 --> 00:29:59,663
You think, like, out of 25 million people in your country,
566
00:29:59,765 --> 00:30:02,766
you're the only person
who's got to experience that.
567
00:30:02,868 --> 00:30:05,134
Like, fuck, man,
how fortunate am I?
568
00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:06,870
You're witnessing history unfolding
569
00:30:06,972 --> 00:30:09,973
and you're getting this perspective
570
00:30:10,075 --> 00:30:12,642
that is so unique.
571
00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:16,646
( Manu speaking )
572
00:31:05,597 --> 00:31:08,765
I believe that frontline
journalism is important.
573
00:31:08,867 --> 00:31:11,434
Without these photos
and videos
574
00:31:11,536 --> 00:31:13,402
and firsthand experience,
575
00:31:13,505 --> 00:31:16,740
we can't really
tell the world
576
00:31:16,842 --> 00:31:18,842
how bad it might be.
577
00:31:18,944 --> 00:31:21,144
( singing in Arabic )
578
00:31:24,983 --> 00:31:27,350
( explosion )
579
00:31:33,825 --> 00:31:35,625
Woman:
James Foley joins us now live
580
00:31:35,727 --> 00:31:37,627
from inside northern Syria
581
00:31:37,729 --> 00:31:39,696
with more on what he saw.
582
00:31:39,798 --> 00:31:42,899
Tell us more about what you were able to witness.
583
00:31:43,001 --> 00:31:44,400
Yes, thank you.
584
00:31:44,502 --> 00:31:46,435
You've heard about
indiscriminate shelling,
585
00:31:46,538 --> 00:31:49,139
but to see
those bodies left over
586
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,375
from a direct mortar hit was really shocking.
587
00:31:52,477 --> 00:31:54,010
These were civilians,
588
00:31:54,112 --> 00:31:56,880
and they are under pretty continuous shelling.
589
00:31:56,982 --> 00:31:59,149
( chanting )
590
00:32:11,797 --> 00:32:12,962
Thank you.
591
00:32:16,367 --> 00:32:21,270
It seemed like
he started thinking
about going to Syria,
592
00:32:21,372 --> 00:32:23,940
and by the time
he mentioned it,
593
00:32:24,042 --> 00:32:27,310
it was like he'd already kind of made up his mind.
594
00:32:28,613 --> 00:32:31,147
And he said he was going
with John Cantlie,
595
00:32:31,249 --> 00:32:34,184
who's another colleague--
a British photojournalist
596
00:32:34,285 --> 00:32:38,021
that we'd all met in Libya the year before.
597
00:32:38,123 --> 00:32:40,223
- Man: What's your name?
- Jim.
598
00:32:40,325 --> 00:32:42,826
- John. Jim and John.
- Man: John, Jim.
599
00:32:42,928 --> 00:32:46,295
Johnny, you say I love you.
You say.
600
00:32:46,397 --> 00:32:47,964
Diane:
I don't know.
601
00:32:48,066 --> 00:32:50,299
I really didn't
602
00:32:50,401 --> 00:32:53,236
really get
into it with Jim.
603
00:32:53,338 --> 00:32:55,471
I think I made it
too easy for him.
604
00:32:55,573 --> 00:32:58,641
I mean, it was something
he wanted to do,
605
00:32:58,744 --> 00:33:01,477
and so we were trying to be supportive
606
00:33:01,579 --> 00:33:05,281
about his decision
to do that, you know?
607
00:33:05,383 --> 00:33:07,851
You just want to
punch him in the face.
608
00:33:07,953 --> 00:33:11,487
You know, in a loving,
brotherly way.
609
00:33:11,589 --> 00:33:14,457
But you're like,
"Come on, Jim! Come on!"
610
00:33:16,427 --> 00:33:19,028
Tom:
The last conversation I ever had with Jim, I said to him,
611
00:33:19,131 --> 00:33:21,564
"Jim, man, why do you keep going back into Syria?
612
00:33:21,666 --> 00:33:23,166
I mean, what's it like?"
613
00:33:23,268 --> 00:33:24,834
And he's like,
"It's crazy, it's crazy."
614
00:33:24,936 --> 00:33:27,237
I'm like "Well, is it more
dangerous than Libya?"
615
00:33:27,338 --> 00:33:28,872
He's like, "Yeah, it's more
dangerous than Libya!"
616
00:33:28,974 --> 00:33:30,974
I'm like,
"You got captured in Libya!"
617
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:34,477
You couldn't
talk him out of it.
618
00:34:11,549 --> 00:34:14,750
( chanting )
619
00:34:14,853 --> 00:34:17,687
Jim: You know, the thing is, is there's physical courage, right?
620
00:34:17,789 --> 00:34:20,156
For some reason, I have physical courage.
621
00:34:20,258 --> 00:34:21,724
But really, think about it,
622
00:34:21,827 --> 00:34:23,726
that's nothing compared to moral courage.
623
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:25,695
I can go and get those shots,
624
00:34:25,797 --> 00:34:27,630
but if I don't have the moral courage
625
00:34:27,732 --> 00:34:31,067
to challenge authority, to write about things
626
00:34:31,169 --> 00:34:34,470
that are going to maybe have reprisals on my career--
627
00:34:34,572 --> 00:34:37,373
if I don't have moral courage, we don't have journalism.
628
00:34:39,477 --> 00:34:42,545
Jim chose one story
in particular about
this hospital,
629
00:34:42,647 --> 00:34:45,048
the Dar Al Shifa Hospital in Aleppo.
630
00:34:45,150 --> 00:34:48,751
It was actually Jim's idea to spend a week in that hospital
631
00:34:48,854 --> 00:34:51,754
documenting what the doctors and the staff there
632
00:34:51,857 --> 00:34:53,890
were doing on a daily basis.
633
00:34:56,061 --> 00:34:57,560
Yes.
634
00:35:03,601 --> 00:35:05,869
- Whew!
- ( man shouts )
635
00:35:05,971 --> 00:35:07,303
( chanting )
636
00:35:14,045 --> 00:35:15,644
Nicole:
From what he and I witnessed,
637
00:35:15,747 --> 00:35:17,813
they were literally
shuttling people with drips
638
00:35:17,916 --> 00:35:19,615
and bandages and everything
639
00:35:19,717 --> 00:35:22,952
in these tiny little taxis and cars.
640
00:35:23,054 --> 00:35:25,321
And Jim was the one who came up with the idea
641
00:35:25,423 --> 00:35:28,358
of raising money to get an ambulance for the hospital.
642
00:35:28,459 --> 00:35:30,026
And he was in touch
with everybody,
643
00:35:30,128 --> 00:35:31,660
and there was
an ambulance
644
00:35:31,763 --> 00:35:32,996
that was
a secondhand ambulance
645
00:35:33,098 --> 00:35:34,797
that was coming from Austria,
646
00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:36,933
and Jim and I actually made one trip in
647
00:35:37,035 --> 00:35:39,168
and we saw the ambulance sitting outside the hospital.
648
00:35:39,271 --> 00:35:43,539
And that moment of joy
on his face was priceless.
649
00:35:43,641 --> 00:35:45,975
He was just like, "It made it. It's awesome."
650
00:35:49,247 --> 00:35:52,848
Clare:
I would say the flip side of his willingness
651
00:35:52,951 --> 00:35:54,750
to get out there and do things
652
00:35:54,852 --> 00:35:58,454
is that like,
okay, so you get
an ambulance into Syria.
653
00:35:58,556 --> 00:36:00,223
Some militia is
going to commandeer it
654
00:36:00,325 --> 00:36:02,358
and use it for their own purposes.
655
00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:04,027
They're going to put an anti-aircraft in the back of it,
656
00:36:04,129 --> 00:36:05,428
like, go blow shit up.
657
00:36:05,530 --> 00:36:09,598
Jim was not focused
on that kind of issue.
658
00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:13,803
He would think about what's
the best-case scenario,
659
00:36:13,905 --> 00:36:16,839
not how things could go wrong.
660
00:36:20,178 --> 00:36:21,978
Nicole:
It becomes very personal
661
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,181
because we have to live amongst the local population,
662
00:36:25,283 --> 00:36:29,185
and it's such this brutal, endless conflict
663
00:36:29,287 --> 00:36:31,421
that you just--
664
00:36:31,522 --> 00:36:34,623
you feel so kind of alone
665
00:36:34,725 --> 00:36:36,659
in the sense
that you can't do
anything about it.
666
00:36:36,761 --> 00:36:39,028
You can't do anything for these people--
667
00:36:39,130 --> 00:36:40,863
for the people you've made friends with
668
00:36:40,966 --> 00:36:42,498
and for the people who took you in
669
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,334
and shared their food with you
670
00:36:44,436 --> 00:36:47,203
and wanted you to play with their children.
671
00:36:47,305 --> 00:36:49,872
We'd become the intimate
chroniclers of this conflict.
672
00:36:49,975 --> 00:36:51,674
We don't have bureaus
to go back to.
673
00:36:51,776 --> 00:36:54,110
You're there, and every moment of it
674
00:36:54,212 --> 00:36:57,146
you share with the locals.
675
00:36:57,248 --> 00:37:00,883
And I think there was
just this enormous guilt
that rode on Jim's back
676
00:37:00,986 --> 00:37:04,020
that made him feel so compelled
677
00:37:04,122 --> 00:37:08,191
to do much more than just record video and file it.
678
00:37:08,293 --> 00:37:10,960
There were times where he was offering up video for free
679
00:37:11,062 --> 00:37:13,796
and I would chastise
him for it. I'd be like,
"What are you doing?"
680
00:37:13,898 --> 00:37:16,565
He was like, "Nah, whatever.
It's fine. It's all good.
681
00:37:16,667 --> 00:37:19,268
I just want to make sure the video gets out there."
682
00:37:22,540 --> 00:37:26,442
Diane:
Jim's the kind of guy who never needed much.
683
00:37:26,544 --> 00:37:30,713
Some of the lifestyle
of a conflict journalist
is tough,
684
00:37:30,815 --> 00:37:33,182
but that didn't bother Jim.
685
00:37:33,284 --> 00:37:35,218
The only possessions
I think Jim cared about
686
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,952
were books and CDs.
687
00:37:37,088 --> 00:37:38,921
I mean his camera, ultimately.
688
00:37:39,024 --> 00:37:41,024
He'd come home
without a toothbrush.
689
00:37:41,126 --> 00:37:44,394
Just use whatever toothbrush was available.
690
00:37:44,496 --> 00:37:46,695
Jim could fall asleep
anywhere.
691
00:37:46,797 --> 00:37:50,466
All he needed was just a little space on the floor.
692
00:37:50,568 --> 00:37:51,834
He was like a cat.
693
00:37:53,505 --> 00:37:56,539
Brian:
This is a good one.
694
00:37:56,641 --> 00:37:58,741
( Manu speaking )
695
00:38:05,083 --> 00:38:07,016
Diane:
Over time, you know,
696
00:38:07,118 --> 00:38:08,684
he slowly got rid of his apartment,
697
00:38:08,786 --> 00:38:10,086
sold his car.
698
00:38:10,188 --> 00:38:14,290
He just ended up really owning nothing.
699
00:38:14,392 --> 00:38:15,958
So, what would he want for Christmas?
700
00:38:16,061 --> 00:38:17,593
This last time before going to Syria,
701
00:38:17,695 --> 00:38:19,562
he wanted a tough pair of pants.
702
00:38:19,664 --> 00:38:21,164
He really did have less and less
703
00:38:21,266 --> 00:38:23,399
and it didn't
bother him at all
704
00:38:23,501 --> 00:38:25,201
because he seemed
richer and richer.
705
00:38:38,015 --> 00:38:40,049
Nicole:
There was one day in August
706
00:38:40,151 --> 00:38:43,119
when a Syrian activist was taking us around this neighborhood
707
00:38:43,221 --> 00:38:45,588
called Bustan al-Qasr
708
00:38:45,690 --> 00:38:49,925
and this fighter jet just started circling above
709
00:38:50,027 --> 00:38:52,861
and just swooped right down and hit a building
710
00:38:52,964 --> 00:38:55,030
that was a couple hundred feet from us.
711
00:38:55,133 --> 00:38:57,567
- ( gunfire )
- ( explosions )
712
00:39:00,705 --> 00:39:03,106
We started seeing civilians coming out
713
00:39:03,208 --> 00:39:06,509
and just clutching nothing, really.
714
00:39:06,611 --> 00:39:07,910
Just ashen faces.
715
00:39:08,012 --> 00:39:10,213
There was rubble everywhere.
716
00:39:10,315 --> 00:39:11,481
It was chaos.
717
00:39:11,583 --> 00:39:13,416
( shouting )
718
00:39:15,620 --> 00:39:17,253
And the plane came around again.
719
00:39:17,355 --> 00:39:19,388
It dropped another bomb
really close by,
720
00:39:19,491 --> 00:39:21,457
and, actually,
we were right across
the building,
721
00:39:21,559 --> 00:39:23,459
and we looked up and we could see
722
00:39:23,561 --> 00:39:25,828
the rubble start coming down.
723
00:39:30,568 --> 00:39:35,605
That bomb had hit
a family of seven.
724
00:39:36,641 --> 00:39:38,741
( speaking Arabic )
725
00:39:41,212 --> 00:39:42,411
Jim:
Who was killed?
726
00:39:43,481 --> 00:39:45,047
Who?
727
00:39:48,919 --> 00:39:50,853
Nicole:
It was horrific in the scale of it,
728
00:39:50,955 --> 00:39:53,523
but also just--
I think nothing prepares you
729
00:39:53,625 --> 00:39:57,326
for seeing kids being killed
and maimed in that way,
730
00:39:57,428 --> 00:39:59,695
and I know that Jim
really loves kids.
731
00:39:59,797 --> 00:40:02,165
So, you know,
we were both just--
732
00:40:02,267 --> 00:40:06,269
we didn't say
anything until we got
to the field hospital
733
00:40:06,371 --> 00:40:07,870
where they were
bringing the bodies.
734
00:40:14,179 --> 00:40:17,280
And we were both just in this mode
735
00:40:17,382 --> 00:40:20,082
of just needing to get the pictures out.
736
00:40:20,185 --> 00:40:22,485
I think when
we were finished
that night, though,
737
00:40:22,587 --> 00:40:25,087
we kind of sat down
and lit a cigarette
738
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:27,890
and we just started
talking about it.
739
00:40:27,992 --> 00:40:30,059
Really, there wasn't
very much to say, though.
740
00:40:30,161 --> 00:40:33,095
You know, like,
what is there to talk about
741
00:40:33,198 --> 00:40:35,531
when you witness something like that?
742
00:40:35,633 --> 00:40:37,600
So we just sort of sat in silence.
743
00:40:39,804 --> 00:40:41,737
Zac:
Nothing prepares you for that.
744
00:40:41,839 --> 00:40:44,006
No amount of courses. Nothing.
745
00:40:44,108 --> 00:40:48,010
You just go there and you'll either handle it or you don't,
746
00:40:48,112 --> 00:40:49,679
and that's cool.
747
00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:52,248
Either you run
or you stay.
748
00:40:52,350 --> 00:40:55,150
And there's--
not one is better
than the other,
749
00:40:55,253 --> 00:40:57,520
but just don't delude yourself.
750
00:40:57,622 --> 00:41:00,122
Some people aren't meant for that.
751
00:41:10,368 --> 00:41:14,169
Clare:
The shine was starting to come off in a way.
752
00:41:14,272 --> 00:41:16,272
There was a period of time
753
00:41:16,374 --> 00:41:18,441
where journalists
were welcomed with open arms
754
00:41:18,543 --> 00:41:21,510
because they'd seen what had happened in Libya.
755
00:41:21,613 --> 00:41:24,313
And when that didn't come about after a year,
756
00:41:24,415 --> 00:41:27,082
after a year and a half, after two years,
757
00:41:27,184 --> 00:41:29,017
it's just like, "Okay, what are you guys doing?"
758
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,654
I had a doctor
tell me at the hospital
759
00:41:31,756 --> 00:41:34,022
that Jim helped raise money for an ambulance--
760
00:41:34,125 --> 00:41:37,360
he was like, "Look, you guys are in and out of here since one year,
761
00:41:37,462 --> 00:41:39,928
and it's the same exact thing
except it's worse.
762
00:41:40,030 --> 00:41:42,331
I don't want to talk to you."
763
00:41:45,102 --> 00:41:47,202
If the populace on the ground
764
00:41:47,305 --> 00:41:49,472
whose side you're documenting
765
00:41:49,574 --> 00:41:52,841
is getting more uneasy with you
766
00:41:52,943 --> 00:41:55,544
or less willing to help--
767
00:41:55,647 --> 00:41:57,212
you're very dependent
on the goodwill
768
00:41:57,315 --> 00:41:59,047
of the people
you're around.
769
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,886
( Manu speaking )
770
00:42:27,878 --> 00:42:32,281
It's just that moment of,
like, how well can you
know anybody?
771
00:42:32,383 --> 00:42:35,818
Even, say you know someone very well,
772
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,620
two years of war, three years of war,
773
00:42:37,722 --> 00:42:40,122
that's going to change anybody.
774
00:42:40,224 --> 00:42:41,457
They warned journalists.
775
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:43,426
They were like,
"Al-Qaeda is coming."
776
00:42:43,528 --> 00:42:45,160
Maybe even worse
than al-Qaeda is coming
777
00:42:45,262 --> 00:42:48,497
and nobody is going to help us
against the Assad regime
778
00:42:48,599 --> 00:42:51,133
except for these guys.
779
00:42:51,235 --> 00:42:53,035
So it was all there.
780
00:42:56,907 --> 00:42:59,074
Clare:
One of the main things I noticed
781
00:42:59,176 --> 00:43:01,310
the last time when he came out,
782
00:43:01,412 --> 00:43:02,611
he looked really hollow
783
00:43:02,714 --> 00:43:05,147
and he was quite--
quite silent.
784
00:43:05,249 --> 00:43:09,385
He had that amazing room-brightening smile
785
00:43:09,487 --> 00:43:13,356
even if he had seen terrible things, as one does.
786
00:43:13,458 --> 00:43:15,324
It was disheartening
to see.
787
00:43:19,997 --> 00:43:23,165
Mark:
Before he left for Syria, I think we made it a point,
788
00:43:23,267 --> 00:43:26,268
we were going to bring him down
to the Faneuil Hall district
789
00:43:26,371 --> 00:43:29,137
and go to the comedy club
down there.
790
00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:30,506
The comedians were horrible,
791
00:43:30,608 --> 00:43:32,074
but I was in the mood to laugh,
792
00:43:32,176 --> 00:43:33,976
so I'm just laughing at anything.
793
00:43:34,078 --> 00:43:35,544
And I just remember
looking at Jim
794
00:43:35,646 --> 00:43:37,847
and he was just
dead-faced.
795
00:43:37,948 --> 00:43:41,350
And then me and Jim went outside for a cigarette
796
00:43:41,452 --> 00:43:43,352
like we always do.
797
00:43:43,454 --> 00:43:44,820
He said he had to go.
798
00:43:44,922 --> 00:43:46,455
We had a long hug.
799
00:43:46,557 --> 00:43:48,957
I remember I hugged him a really long time.
800
00:43:49,059 --> 00:43:50,225
Just hugged him really tight.
801
00:43:50,327 --> 00:43:52,060
I said be careful.
802
00:43:52,162 --> 00:43:53,896
Obviously, I didn't feel
like that was the last time
803
00:43:53,964 --> 00:43:57,266
I was going to see him,
but it was a good night.
804
00:43:57,368 --> 00:43:59,001
It was a good end
of the night, you know?
805
00:44:02,139 --> 00:44:04,740
John, Sr.:
I guess if I had any regrets, Brian,
806
00:44:04,842 --> 00:44:08,477
I regret that
I found it difficult
to communicate with Jim.
807
00:44:08,579 --> 00:44:11,914
I don't know if it's the male thing or whatever it is,
808
00:44:12,016 --> 00:44:14,550
but I just wish I was able to share more
809
00:44:14,652 --> 00:44:16,285
of who I was with Jim again
810
00:44:16,387 --> 00:44:18,086
and get him to share who he was with me,
811
00:44:18,188 --> 00:44:21,056
which might have been
just as difficult, you know?
812
00:44:21,158 --> 00:44:23,859
Diane:
He would interview us when we came home
813
00:44:23,961 --> 00:44:25,861
and he did a great job interviewing us,
814
00:44:25,963 --> 00:44:29,698
because you felt like talking because he was listening.
815
00:44:29,801 --> 00:44:31,767
He wanted to know
how we were.
816
00:44:31,869 --> 00:44:33,068
And that was--
when he came home,
817
00:44:33,170 --> 00:44:34,703
that's what
he wanted to know.
818
00:44:34,806 --> 00:44:38,273
He wanted,
"Well, how are you?
How you doing?"
819
00:44:38,375 --> 00:44:41,243
"How's Grandma? How's Katie and Mark?"
820
00:44:41,345 --> 00:44:44,313
And he just wanted to know how everyone was doing.
821
00:44:44,415 --> 00:44:48,350
So in that way, Jim was kind of solitary.
822
00:44:50,421 --> 00:44:52,455
Kristie:
He was home, end of October,
823
00:44:52,557 --> 00:44:55,858
right before he went back
to Syria that last time,
824
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,827
and he was going--
825
00:44:57,929 --> 00:44:59,161
I remember
he was leaving here
826
00:44:59,263 --> 00:45:00,830
and he was going to
New York to get a helmet
827
00:45:00,932 --> 00:45:02,898
from somebody,
which was good.
828
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,701
We were like,
"Getting safety equipment.
We like this."
829
00:45:05,803 --> 00:45:09,772
Yeah, I remember we left
and we dropped him off
at a train station.
830
00:45:09,874 --> 00:45:12,240
And he-- we were going
to see him in December.
831
00:45:12,343 --> 00:45:14,577
- He was supposed to
come home kind of--
- You have a good memory.
832
00:45:14,679 --> 00:45:16,278
He was supposed to
come home mid-December.
833
00:45:16,380 --> 00:45:20,415
And we were like,
"Be safe. See you soon."
834
00:45:20,518 --> 00:45:24,152
And unfortunately,
that didn't--
835
00:45:24,254 --> 00:45:26,388
Yeah.
836
00:45:31,362 --> 00:45:33,963
- Sorry.
- It's okay.
837
00:45:48,579 --> 00:45:51,747
Nicole:
We'd spent the beginning of November in Aleppo again
838
00:45:51,849 --> 00:45:56,084
with Jim, John Cantlie, and Mustafa, our translator,
839
00:45:56,186 --> 00:45:58,387
who's become a friend of ours.
840
00:45:58,489 --> 00:46:01,757
I had had some issues
with my camera that week.
841
00:46:01,859 --> 00:46:05,260
So, I was like, "Jim, I got to go back to Istanbul.
842
00:46:05,362 --> 00:46:07,796
I'll see you guys in a week."
843
00:46:07,899 --> 00:46:12,200
The moment when
I said bye to Jim,
844
00:46:12,302 --> 00:46:16,572
I had this feeling of reluctance to leave.
845
00:46:16,674 --> 00:46:19,842
I think in a way maybe it did upset the balance
846
00:46:19,944 --> 00:46:22,511
that he and I had shared for so long.
847
00:46:22,613 --> 00:46:25,614
There are superstitions when you're in a war zone.
848
00:46:29,286 --> 00:46:31,854
There's like this one thing that he and I shared,
849
00:46:31,956 --> 00:46:33,455
which was our
lucky lighter.
850
00:46:33,558 --> 00:46:35,223
It's very common in the Middle East.
851
00:46:35,325 --> 00:46:38,293
It's like the evil eye to ward off evil spirits.
852
00:46:38,395 --> 00:46:40,228
We'd used it for everything,
853
00:46:40,330 --> 00:46:42,330
and for some reason it never ran out of lighter fluid.
854
00:46:42,433 --> 00:46:44,232
It's just this stupid idea.
855
00:46:44,334 --> 00:46:49,271
You put your hopes into one
object to make it feel safe.
856
00:46:50,641 --> 00:46:52,875
I think about it a lot afterwards,
857
00:46:52,977 --> 00:46:55,678
that he didn't have it with him.
858
00:46:55,780 --> 00:47:00,115
Maybe if I just gave him
the lucky lighter,
859
00:47:00,217 --> 00:47:02,084
everything might have
turned out okay.
860
00:47:02,186 --> 00:47:03,652
I don't know.
861
00:47:06,023 --> 00:47:08,724
That day, I was in Reyhanli,
862
00:47:08,826 --> 00:47:10,459
which is the border town,
863
00:47:10,561 --> 00:47:13,596
and I would have seen him at about 5:00.
864
00:47:13,698 --> 00:47:16,131
So I checked in
and I told Jim,
865
00:47:16,233 --> 00:47:18,200
I'm like,
"Hey, I'm here,
866
00:47:18,302 --> 00:47:20,903
so text me
when you get in."
867
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,941
5:00 rolls by, and I started to worry.
868
00:47:26,043 --> 00:47:28,077
7:00, 8:00 rolls around,
869
00:47:28,178 --> 00:47:29,778
and I'm like, "Something is really wrong."
870
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,615
So I called Mustafa,
871
00:47:32,717 --> 00:47:35,784
and the first thing
he said to me was,
872
00:47:35,886 --> 00:47:38,921
"Nicole, I'm so sorry.
873
00:47:39,023 --> 00:47:40,856
I didn't--
I couldn't do anything."
874
00:47:40,958 --> 00:47:43,058
I was like,
"What are you talking about?
What happened?"
875
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,294
He was like, "We were coming. We were in the taxi.
876
00:47:46,396 --> 00:47:48,097
We were coming to Turkey to meet you,
877
00:47:48,198 --> 00:47:52,567
and this van with these four guys with guns,
878
00:47:52,670 --> 00:47:54,402
they stopped us on the road
879
00:47:54,505 --> 00:47:56,271
and they told us to get out.
880
00:47:56,373 --> 00:47:59,708
And they were pointing their guns at us and screaming."
881
00:47:59,810 --> 00:48:03,879
The gunman made Mustafa tie up their hands,
882
00:48:03,981 --> 00:48:07,916
and they put John and Jim into the back of their van.
883
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,656
So, I hung up
and I just started crying.
884
00:48:13,758 --> 00:48:15,390
I was like--
885
00:48:19,463 --> 00:48:21,096
I didn't know if I was
gonna see Jim again,
886
00:48:21,198 --> 00:48:24,033
and that was the first thought
that came to my head.
887
00:48:29,907 --> 00:48:31,940
John, Sr.:
It was almost surreal.
888
00:48:32,043 --> 00:48:34,777
This is a bad dream.
It's not really happening.
889
00:48:34,879 --> 00:48:38,280
It's not happening.
This can't be--
890
00:48:38,382 --> 00:48:39,481
this can't happen again.
891
00:48:39,583 --> 00:48:41,817
We can't do this again.
892
00:48:45,089 --> 00:48:47,255
Yeah, it was--
893
00:48:47,357 --> 00:48:49,424
I dove in just like before.
894
00:48:49,526 --> 00:48:52,594
I felt like, "Okay, it's going to be 45 to 100 days of hell,
895
00:48:52,697 --> 00:48:55,097
and then we'll have him back."
896
00:48:55,199 --> 00:48:58,133
In a matter of a week, you could tell it was very different.
897
00:48:58,235 --> 00:49:01,103
A lot of misinformation,
as opposed to last time
in Libya--
898
00:49:01,205 --> 00:49:05,174
after a week went by
we knew where he was,
who to deal with,
899
00:49:05,275 --> 00:49:07,710
so we just concentrated on
routes to get to one person.
900
00:49:07,812 --> 00:49:11,113
Here was a mystery right out of a crime show or something
901
00:49:11,215 --> 00:49:14,850
where you're trying to piece together bits of information.
902
00:49:14,952 --> 00:49:16,685
Nicole:
For the next three weeks,
903
00:49:16,787 --> 00:49:19,788
there was just dead ends
and false information
904
00:49:19,890 --> 00:49:22,524
and rumors and people
being scared of talking
905
00:49:22,626 --> 00:49:26,795
because they had a suspicion of who maybe was responsible
906
00:49:26,897 --> 00:49:28,731
and they didn't want to get entangled in it.
907
00:49:28,833 --> 00:49:33,001
Diane:
Phil Balboni offered to stand up
908
00:49:33,104 --> 00:49:35,170
a security team to try to find Jim.
909
00:49:35,272 --> 00:49:37,906
So, all these people
were trying so hard
910
00:49:38,008 --> 00:49:40,675
to get in place,
but it was a very,
911
00:49:40,778 --> 00:49:42,711
very chaotic,
confusing time.
912
00:49:45,616 --> 00:49:49,417
John, Jr.:
You're on eggshells. You're just waiting to hear.
913
00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:52,221
It's exhausting,
and I know Jim felt
guilty for that,
914
00:49:52,322 --> 00:49:55,924
and I'm not trying to
make him feel more guilty,
915
00:49:56,026 --> 00:49:57,893
but it's just a toll
916
00:49:57,995 --> 00:50:02,330
that's taken
by the families.
917
00:50:02,432 --> 00:50:04,266
Brian:
What were the hurdles getting the White House
918
00:50:04,368 --> 00:50:05,834
and FBI involved?
919
00:50:05,936 --> 00:50:08,237
Michael:
It was very tough to get action.
920
00:50:08,338 --> 00:50:10,472
And I understand that the world is a big place,
921
00:50:10,574 --> 00:50:13,742
and so I actually felt guilty sometimes
922
00:50:13,844 --> 00:50:16,611
trying not to ask too much of them.
923
00:50:16,713 --> 00:50:17,913
Jim made this decision,
924
00:50:17,982 --> 00:50:20,382
but just give it
your best attention
925
00:50:20,484 --> 00:50:22,217
and we'll trust you.
926
00:50:22,319 --> 00:50:25,520
That's kind of
where it started,
the relationship.
927
00:50:25,622 --> 00:50:28,523
Then I met the first agent
that came over
928
00:50:28,625 --> 00:50:32,394
and it was just a kid
out of school,
929
00:50:32,496 --> 00:50:36,231
and his first question
to me was had I asked
the regime for assistance.
930
00:50:36,333 --> 00:50:38,066
Are you fucking kidding me?
931
00:50:38,169 --> 00:50:40,903
Have I called the regime
and asked them for assistance?
932
00:50:41,005 --> 00:50:42,938
No, I hadn't thought of that.
Thank you.
933
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,573
Thank you very much
for that tip.
934
00:50:45,676 --> 00:50:48,710
They told us--
they advised us
to be quiet,
935
00:50:48,813 --> 00:50:51,613
because hopefully
they could find him
936
00:50:51,715 --> 00:50:53,048
and get him out and such.
937
00:50:53,150 --> 00:50:54,850
So we didn't say anything.
938
00:50:54,952 --> 00:50:57,552
We went through Christmas and all that
939
00:50:57,654 --> 00:51:01,190
not telling anyone but our closest family that Jim was missing.
940
00:51:03,460 --> 00:51:05,861
Tom:
In some ways it was better
941
00:51:05,963 --> 00:51:08,897
because I didn't
have to explain it.
942
00:51:08,999 --> 00:51:11,599
Because at times
it could feel accusatory,
943
00:51:11,702 --> 00:51:13,836
like, "Well, he was
in Syria."
944
00:51:13,938 --> 00:51:17,139
That's not fair.
945
00:51:17,241 --> 00:51:18,907
You don't do that
with police or firemen
946
00:51:19,009 --> 00:51:20,508
or something like that
who do dangerous jobs.
947
00:51:20,610 --> 00:51:21,844
You don't say,
"Well, you were in a fire.
948
00:51:21,946 --> 00:51:23,812
What did you think
would happen?"
949
00:51:23,914 --> 00:51:27,049
My friend doesn't need
to explain why he's
a journalist.
950
00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:32,287
Diane:
Come the new year, I couldn't stand it.
951
00:51:32,389 --> 00:51:33,688
I was frantic.
952
00:51:33,790 --> 00:51:36,859
So we chose to go public.
953
00:51:36,961 --> 00:51:39,962
John, Sr.:
I appeal to the people who have Jim
954
00:51:40,064 --> 00:51:44,233
to give us some information
in terms of his welfare,
his health.
955
00:51:44,335 --> 00:51:45,834
Diane:
It breaks my heart
956
00:51:45,936 --> 00:51:49,637
that the persons
who have captured him
957
00:51:49,740 --> 00:51:53,041
don't understand
his goodness.
958
00:51:53,143 --> 00:51:57,045
My personal feeling is that
silence helps two people.
959
00:51:57,147 --> 00:51:58,580
One is the government--
960
00:51:58,682 --> 00:52:01,449
it doesn't push them
to do more sooner--
961
00:52:01,551 --> 00:52:02,885
and the captors.
962
00:52:02,987 --> 00:52:05,854
It allows them to do whatever they want.
963
00:52:05,956 --> 00:52:07,589
It's difficult now
964
00:52:07,691 --> 00:52:10,458
with all the talk
about the Islamic State.
965
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,596
They've become so famous or infamous.
966
00:52:14,698 --> 00:52:17,632
But the Islamic State, ISIS, ISIL,
967
00:52:17,701 --> 00:52:21,703
was on nobody's radar at the time.
968
00:52:21,805 --> 00:52:23,838
With a very high
degree of confidence,
969
00:52:23,941 --> 00:52:27,175
we now believe that Jim was abducted
970
00:52:27,278 --> 00:52:29,244
by a pro-government militia group
971
00:52:29,346 --> 00:52:30,812
and was subsequently
turned over
972
00:52:30,915 --> 00:52:32,480
to Syrian
government forces.
973
00:52:32,582 --> 00:52:33,748
This is the first time
974
00:52:33,850 --> 00:52:35,817
we've really heard
anything like this,
975
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,955
so we are very hopeful,
like John says.
976
00:52:40,057 --> 00:52:42,490
Well, it turned out
we were dead wrong about that.
977
00:52:44,694 --> 00:52:47,429
Michael:
All the information up front was just a bunch of BS.
978
00:52:47,531 --> 00:52:49,398
No one knew what the heck they were talking about
979
00:52:49,499 --> 00:52:51,199
because we had no access.
980
00:52:51,302 --> 00:52:54,202
That whole year,
I don't care what anyone says,
981
00:52:54,305 --> 00:52:56,071
all the efforts,
all the leads,
all this and that...
982
00:52:57,674 --> 00:53:00,809
we were in the wrong area
of the country, you know?
983
00:53:00,911 --> 00:53:02,811
Syria is about the size of New England, maybe?
984
00:53:02,913 --> 00:53:04,879
A little smaller.
So here you go, Brian.
985
00:53:04,982 --> 00:53:08,417
Go into New England.
Find Jim.
986
00:53:08,518 --> 00:53:10,953
I think the moment
that I learned that he had
been kidnapped,
987
00:53:11,055 --> 00:53:15,090
I was just like,
this is going to be
a really long process.
988
00:53:15,192 --> 00:53:16,691
But I'm going
to do anything
989
00:53:16,793 --> 00:53:19,461
that I can in my power
to get him home.
990
00:53:19,563 --> 00:53:24,066
Because I can't stand
the thought of him
991
00:53:24,168 --> 00:53:27,369
being in a cell somewhere
cold and hungry.
992
00:53:27,471 --> 00:53:29,104
And I can't sit here
993
00:53:29,206 --> 00:53:31,039
and not try to look for him.
994
00:53:48,658 --> 00:53:50,325
Daniel:
My name is Daniel,
995
00:53:50,427 --> 00:53:52,694
and I'm a Danish photojournalist.
996
00:53:53,897 --> 00:53:56,865
I started as a gymnast,
997
00:53:56,967 --> 00:53:59,534
and while I spent all my time in gyms
998
00:53:59,603 --> 00:54:02,037
all around the world doing gymnastics,
999
00:54:02,139 --> 00:54:04,772
I got bored when I didn't do
anything else
1000
00:54:04,875 --> 00:54:06,808
and I started to
take pictures.
1001
00:54:10,447 --> 00:54:15,417
I only planned to be inside Syria for two days.
1002
00:54:15,519 --> 00:54:18,520
I had one day of work
1003
00:54:18,622 --> 00:54:22,424
when I walked around
this small quiet town.
1004
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,361
It was spring,
1005
00:54:26,430 --> 00:54:28,897
so the weather started to be very better,
1006
00:54:28,999 --> 00:54:32,934
and people seemed happy and relaxed
1007
00:54:33,037 --> 00:54:36,638
and we were told to go and speak
1008
00:54:36,740 --> 00:54:39,641
to some guys in the area.
1009
00:54:42,012 --> 00:54:43,811
Very calmly, we're sitting on sofas.
1010
00:54:43,914 --> 00:54:46,581
They were offering tea.
1011
00:54:46,683 --> 00:54:48,917
Everything was calm and quiet,
1012
00:54:49,019 --> 00:54:52,054
even though I knew that
something was strange,
1013
00:54:52,156 --> 00:54:53,588
something was wrong.
1014
00:54:53,690 --> 00:54:56,858
And then they
asked me to stand up
1015
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:58,860
and they took off my glasses,
1016
00:54:58,962 --> 00:55:03,265
and they just-- "Don't worry, this is just a procedure."
1017
00:55:05,902 --> 00:55:07,335
That was how everything began.
1018
00:55:07,438 --> 00:55:09,438
So, you know,
a quiet Sunday
1019
00:55:09,540 --> 00:55:13,308
beautiful spring morning
became a nightmare for me.
1020
00:55:21,518 --> 00:55:23,385
The longer you are a hostage,
1021
00:55:23,487 --> 00:55:26,054
the easier it becomes in some way,
1022
00:55:26,156 --> 00:55:27,522
the better you get at it.
1023
00:55:27,624 --> 00:55:29,424
And I had, like, I think, one,
1024
00:55:29,526 --> 00:55:31,593
one and half months by myself.
1025
00:55:31,695 --> 00:55:34,563
After, I believe, two and a half months,
1026
00:55:34,664 --> 00:55:38,200
I was put together with two other Westerners.
1027
00:55:38,302 --> 00:55:41,436
And then we were put together four.
1028
00:55:41,538 --> 00:55:42,904
I think we were five together,
1029
00:55:43,006 --> 00:55:44,339
and then seven together.
1030
00:55:44,441 --> 00:55:46,641
And then came another one-- eight.
1031
00:55:46,743 --> 00:55:48,810
Then it just started to evolve.
1032
00:56:00,124 --> 00:56:01,723
We were in that cell--
1033
00:56:01,825 --> 00:56:04,493
British, Americans,
1034
00:56:04,595 --> 00:56:07,695
French, Italian, German,
1035
00:56:07,797 --> 00:56:10,532
Danish, Russian, Spanish.
1036
00:56:10,634 --> 00:56:12,734
We were 19 at one stage.
1037
00:57:53,403 --> 00:57:58,172
One day we had to sit
faces to the wall,
1038
00:57:58,275 --> 00:58:00,475
but I could see
under my arms.
1039
00:58:00,577 --> 00:58:03,712
I could see some mattresses were moved in,
1040
00:58:03,813 --> 00:58:07,515
and there came some guys in traditional Syrian clothes.
1041
00:58:07,584 --> 00:58:11,553
And then they
closed the door again,
the big metal door,
1042
00:58:11,655 --> 00:58:15,223
and I looked up, and there was James and John Cantlie.
1043
00:58:16,993 --> 00:58:19,227
Everybody was like,
"Yay! Welcome! Welcome!
Welcome!"
1044
00:58:19,329 --> 00:58:21,663
It's two new friends.
1045
00:58:21,765 --> 00:58:23,831
( Pierre speaking )
1046
00:58:31,508 --> 00:58:34,409
I created this
picture in my head
1047
00:58:34,511 --> 00:58:37,178
of this big war
journalist,
1048
00:58:37,281 --> 00:58:40,415
and so I could only get
disappointed in a way.
1049
00:58:40,517 --> 00:58:43,184
But I remember
him being like...
1050
00:58:45,188 --> 00:58:46,721
"What's happening?"
1051
00:58:46,823 --> 00:58:49,491
So that was basically
the first time I met him.
1052
00:58:51,695 --> 00:58:53,261
But it was real different
1053
00:58:53,363 --> 00:58:55,730
to be put together with James and John,
1054
00:58:55,8 198539
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