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- DISPATCHER:
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MAN 2:
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DETECTIVE:
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DETECTIVE:
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FATHER:
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FATHER:
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MAN 2:
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DETECTIVE:
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DETECTIVE:
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This is James Wright Foley,
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an American citizen
of your country.
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The Foley video,
partly the image,
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but even more
the voice of his captor
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was really shocking
because it was so clearly
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a British London accent.
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The way that he spoke into the camera,
his demeanor,
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his accent, we'd never seen
anything like this before.
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We then obviously had
a race to find out who he was.
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His size, his hands,
but above all his voice
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made identifying him quite easy.
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It was very distinctive,
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and within hours we had a name
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for that individual,
Mohammed Emwazi.
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You are no longer fighting an insurgency,
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we are an Islamic army
and a state.
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You saw a masked man with a knife,
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and he sent this message that
the Islamic State was here,
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it was not Al-Qaeda,
everyone knew about Al-Qaeda,
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but ISIS, Al-Baghdadi,
these guys were different,
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they were this new brand.
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The Islamic State could not have planned it any better,
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if there was one thing
that I think contributed
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to the rise of his fame and the expansion of his own message,
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was the fact that
the international news media
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called him "Jihadi John."
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Jihadi John,
he knows that we're coming after him,
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he went to great lengths
to prevent being captured.
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He didn't want to get captured,
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he didn't want to get killed.
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How did you go
from this conservative,
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sports-loving teenager
to somebody who's splashed
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with the arterial blood
of the men he's beheading?
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This is not just
a subtle transformation,
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this is literally
going from nothing
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to everything
with little in between.
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Mohammed Emwazi,
he had an interesting journey,
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but not one that's particularly
different to other people.
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He started off in Kuwait
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where his family were
a persecuted minority.
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They were known
as the Bedoon tribe
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with people who were not
recognized nationally
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by the Kuwaiti government.
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His father was more successful than most Bedoon
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because his father
was a police officer
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and his mother was a Yemeni.
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So, the Emwazis,
like lots of Bedoon,
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were considering where to go
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in terms of escaping
the persecution,
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and they'd heard
good stories about London.
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So the Emwazis
with little Mohammed in 1993,
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when he was about six years old,
packed their bags
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and headed for London.
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And they were then subsequently
given asylum in the UK.
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They moved into a small flat in Maida Vale.
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His father, Jassem,
he began work as a cab driver
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and they began to
build a family.
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For Mohammed,
his first school
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was a Church of England
primary school.
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And Emwazi spent his life growing up
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as somebody who I guess
was always wondering
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about his identity,
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someone who's family had
to leave their home country
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because of their identity,
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and then subsequently
trying to figure out
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how he fits into this new
society in the heart of the UK.
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He supported Manchester United,
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but he also liked pop
groups like S Club 7.
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♪ There's people try
to put your down ♪
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♪ Just walk on by,
don't turn around ♪
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♪ You only have to
answer to yourself ♪
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In his year book at primary school
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he said his big dream was to be
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a Manchester United
football player.
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It's all he wanted to do.
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Mohammed was in year 10 when I started as Head.
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He wasn't a particularly
noticeable young person.
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I met Mohammed through teaching English for about a year,
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so I didn't teach
him for very long,
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but the family I grew
to know really well
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because his younger sister
was then in my next year group.
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He wasn't vocal, he wasn't
particularly aggressive,
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he was just a kind of,
like a passenger.
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I always see Mohammed
as like a passenger.
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He was much more of a follower
than he was a leader.
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He kind of hunched and tried
to make eye contact with me.
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He found that difficult.
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He often walked around
covering his mouth
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and sometimes some young
boys would tease him
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about his breath,
but that was, I think,
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it was more of
an insecurity for him.
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If kids starting baiting him about his breath,
he'd react.
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They'd start ganging up on him
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and they knew which buttons
to press with Emwazi.
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It just shows how kind
of vulnerable he was.
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He was slightly strange.
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I wouldn't say he was a misfit.
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I think that's probably
a bit too pejorative,
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but I think he wasn't
necessarily sure
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exactly where he fitted in.
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On the playing field where
the boys would play football,
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I remember one time
I confiscated the ball
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because I was being
hit every second.
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At one point,
Mohammed was nearby,
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and I kind of looked at him.
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"Wasn't me miss."
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I said,
"Okay, just move on."
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He wasn't argumentative,
he wasn't rude,
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he wasn't aggressive.
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He just was very pliable,
he just would... just be.
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Have you finished every level?
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Sorry.
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But the few occasions
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I would take the class
into the computer room,
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Mohammed would gravitate
to those computers.
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He would love to be
in the computer room
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and it's almost
like he came alive
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when he was in
front of a screen.
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In away it was kind of a world
that he could escape to.
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I think it is useful to begin at the beginning,
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you know, where did
ISIS actually begin?
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Prior to 2010,
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no one knew who this
guy called Al-Badri was.
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He was this unassuming individual brought up in Samarra,
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east of the Tigris in Iraq,
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and he buried himself in
religious text and scripture.
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He was obsessed
with the debates
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and disputes around
the contemporary called jihad.
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He was essentially a bookworm.
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Al-Badri later changed
his name to Al-Baghdadi.
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But he'd also come into
contact in the early 2000s
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with a notorious member of
Al-Qaeda called Zarqawi.
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Zarqawi, a very effective,
charismatic, superior leader.
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Zarqawi was a master of
the management of violence.
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So he led the insurgency
against the coalition
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and Zarqawi ended up
pioneering the business model
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of suicide bombers.
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And with the Islamist views
that Al-Baghdadi had developed,
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combined with the views
that Zarqawi communicated,
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he became
incredibly influenced.
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Baghdadi was well placed
to network and recruit
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for Al-Qaeda and particularly
Zarqawi's version of Al-Qaeda.
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And so, I see a distinct
difference between the two.
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Zarqawi had a plan and he
ruthlessly executed that plan,
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whereas Al-Baghdadi had a
vision for what he wanted to do
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and a vision has
a longer-term timeline
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and it has a broader set of
aspirations and expectations.
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As Emwazi progresses
through his teenage years
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he's drinking, his friends
say he loves clubbing,
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he's smoking cannabis.
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He's got a reputation for
being a bit of a party animal.
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So,
my perception of him once he got into the sixth form,
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and he-- obviously he wanted
to go to university,
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but he did become less
willing to fit in.
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The level of defiance
in him grew,
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and I remember occasions when
he was asked to leave lessons
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because he just wasn't working.
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Some of his older friends in the community
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are part of street gangs.
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This is another theme
in Emwazi's life.
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He's very much
influenced by older men.
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So, all key figures in his life
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tend to be people
who he can look up to
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and some of the gang members
were involved in crime,
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one or two served
jail terms for stealing bikes,
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drugs offenses.
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Emwazi himself was
arrested and put on trial
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for a string of bike robberies.
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He was eventually
acquitted of that,
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but by association
he was being drawn into
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this kind of crime lifestyle.
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He was part of a very supportive,
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inclusive school environment
and going on to university
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a lot of those kinds of support
structures are withdrawn
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and I think that for any
vulnerable young person
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being part of a very big
faceless university community
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is where some of those
issues would have set in.
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Like we've said, he was one of
those invisible young people
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that we assume
everything is okay,
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and in hindsight it
obviously wasn't.
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If you try to look at
the physical origins
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of the Islamic State
as a fighting force,
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the seeds were sown in
places like Camp Bucca,
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This is a new frontline
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00:13:26,542 --> 00:13:29,458
in the fight against
terrorism, Camp Bucca,
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the United States biggest
detention facility in Iraq.
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Inside Camp Bucca there are more than 19,000 civilian detainees.
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They are neither criminals,
nor prisoners of war.
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There's a significant amount of mystery about Baghdadi
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and the circumstances
of his life
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that ultimately resulted
in him being incarcerated
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in Camp Bucca.
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He knew that the best way for
him to survive in that camp
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was to take on the persona of
a senior respected individual
204
00:14:02,458 --> 00:14:03,875
in the camp community
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00:14:03,959 --> 00:14:07,834
by gaining the trust
of the US military.
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00:14:07,917 --> 00:14:10,375
When I took over
command of the surge
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as a four star in early 2007,
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00:14:13,375 --> 00:14:15,333
it was quickly apparent to me
209
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that this was almost a terrorist training university.
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We had failed to remove
the true extremists
211
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from the midst
of the population
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00:14:23,542 --> 00:14:25,166
where they were proselytizing
213
00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:30,500
and essentially running
these particular areas.
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00:14:30,583 --> 00:14:32,417
These are all Al-Qaeda,
215
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:34,667
but this is not a place
that you want to hang around
216
00:14:34,750 --> 00:14:36,792
so we really don't wanna
stand here that much longer
217
00:14:36,875 --> 00:14:38,500
because they will now
organize around us
218
00:14:38,583 --> 00:14:40,834
and you can already see
the lieutenant's ready to move.
219
00:14:40,917 --> 00:14:43,500
- If you go back just.
- Yep.
220
00:14:43,583 --> 00:14:46,542
Look at them think,
look at them put two and two together.
221
00:14:46,625 --> 00:14:49,333
They are watching,
when I'm looking at them here,
222
00:14:49,417 --> 00:14:51,375
it's just like they are watching
really, really carefully.
223
00:14:51,458 --> 00:14:53,041
I know,
I know that, and not only that,
224
00:14:53,125 --> 00:14:54,375
there's another unique matter,
225
00:14:54,458 --> 00:14:56,166
notice how because they
are a collective society
226
00:14:56,250 --> 00:14:57,542
they don't think alone.
227
00:14:57,625 --> 00:15:00,875
They're thinking
on groups of three to five
228
00:15:00,959 --> 00:15:03,041
with somebody else
standing behind asking them
229
00:15:03,125 --> 00:15:05,709
to ask the question
so he doesn't get identified.
230
00:15:05,792 --> 00:15:08,375
Inside a compound like this,
there are leaders.
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00:15:08,458 --> 00:15:10,709
We don't know yet who they are.
232
00:15:10,792 --> 00:15:14,041
Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi,
clearly understood
233
00:15:14,125 --> 00:15:16,583
not being a warrior himself
234
00:15:16,667 --> 00:15:20,875
that he could in fact
lead and manage warriors.
235
00:15:20,959 --> 00:15:24,917
So, this was the laboratory
in which his culture was grown.
236
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,417
You had an alienated
group of Iraqi officers
237
00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:33,000
mixing with some
extremist elements
238
00:15:33,083 --> 00:15:34,333
that were already there.
239
00:15:34,417 --> 00:15:37,583
The two came together in
a sort of symbiotic way
240
00:15:37,667 --> 00:15:41,250
that over time, because this
didn't happen overnight,
241
00:15:41,333 --> 00:15:43,667
a lot of these
relationships were formed,
242
00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:45,834
but didn't flourish
for a number of years
243
00:15:45,917 --> 00:15:48,542
until suddenly there was
a marriage of convenience
244
00:15:48,625 --> 00:15:50,125
and they fired each other up.
245
00:15:50,208 --> 00:15:53,875
When he was released for
cooperative and good behavior
246
00:15:53,959 --> 00:15:56,166
from Camp Bucca, he continued
247
00:15:56,250 --> 00:15:59,792
to manage the persona
of a good Iraqi citizen.
248
00:15:59,875 --> 00:16:02,667
He hid literally
in plain sight.
249
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,583
The days of Zarqawi are over...
250
00:16:05,667 --> 00:16:10,792
and now Iraqis can
rejoice and take pride
251
00:16:10,875 --> 00:16:13,959
in what has been accomplished
in eliminating that threat.
252
00:16:14,041 --> 00:16:18,375
Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi
used that timeframe
253
00:16:18,458 --> 00:16:21,291
between the death of Zarqawi
254
00:16:21,375 --> 00:16:23,417
and the destruction
of Al-Qaeda in Iraq
255
00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:27,125
to exploit the relationships
that he had made in the camp
256
00:16:27,208 --> 00:16:30,792
and consolidate
his infrastructure and
257
00:16:30,875 --> 00:16:35,875
in a position to declare the
existence of the Islamic State.
258
00:16:43,583 --> 00:16:46,291
Mohammed Emwazi turned up at Westminster,
259
00:16:46,375 --> 00:16:47,709
and he was wearing
260
00:16:47,792 --> 00:16:51,500
a Pittsburgh Pirates
baseball cap and tracksuit.
261
00:16:51,583 --> 00:16:54,208
There was nothing really
Islamic about him.
262
00:16:54,291 --> 00:16:56,125
So, he started in 2006,
263
00:16:56,208 --> 00:16:59,375
a normal teenage lad
with normal aspirations.
264
00:16:59,458 --> 00:17:01,750
But something happened over
the intervening three years.
265
00:17:01,834 --> 00:17:04,041
We'd had reporting on him
266
00:17:04,125 --> 00:17:07,166
during some of his
later university years
267
00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:09,166
that he was becoming
more extreme.
268
00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:13,208
It's likely the strongest
influence on Emwazi at that time
269
00:17:13,291 --> 00:17:15,166
were two specific individuals.
270
00:17:15,250 --> 00:17:18,959
Mohammed Sakr who had also
been to the same school,
271
00:17:19,041 --> 00:17:22,750
but three years older than Emwazi had already been to Kenya,
272
00:17:22,834 --> 00:17:26,709
he'd been arrested,
he had lots of stories to tell
273
00:17:26,792 --> 00:17:30,041
about how he was leading
this really exciting life.
274
00:17:33,166 --> 00:17:34,792
As charismatic as Sakr was,
275
00:17:34,875 --> 00:17:37,750
his friend,
a guy called Bilal Berjawi,
276
00:17:37,834 --> 00:17:41,000
he'd also been to Kenya,
he'd been arrested,
277
00:17:41,083 --> 00:17:44,709
he'd been accused of
being involved in terrorism.
278
00:17:44,792 --> 00:17:47,709
He had double the charisma,
he had double the stories.
279
00:17:47,792 --> 00:17:49,500
And it's become
increasingly apparent
280
00:17:49,583 --> 00:17:53,333
that radicalization isn't
something for lonely people.
281
00:17:53,417 --> 00:17:56,750
There's a strong social
process that happens.
282
00:17:56,834 --> 00:18:01,041
What started off as him just
being a difficult teenager,
283
00:18:01,125 --> 00:18:04,208
doing lots of
delinquent activity
284
00:18:04,291 --> 00:18:08,083
to becoming actually someone
who wanted to redeem himself
285
00:18:08,166 --> 00:18:12,375
and return back to his
original Islamic identity
286
00:18:12,458 --> 00:18:14,542
and practice it more wholly.
287
00:18:14,625 --> 00:18:18,667
A very insightful story from one
of his old school friends
288
00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:22,166
who was sitting in a shisha bar
on the Edgeware Road
289
00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:24,667
and Emwazi and two associates
290
00:18:24,750 --> 00:18:28,083
were walking down the Edgeware Road in their white robes
291
00:18:28,166 --> 00:18:32,583
and the friend says to Emwazi,
"Hi Mohammad, how are you?"
292
00:18:32,667 --> 00:18:34,083
This is a new Emwazi.
293
00:18:34,166 --> 00:18:36,667
He doesn't acknowledge
old friends anymore.
294
00:18:36,750 --> 00:18:41,125
He walked past
with his head in the air.
295
00:18:41,208 --> 00:18:43,041
This was, he'd moved on.
296
00:18:54,667 --> 00:18:57,959
There are similarities between a criminal lifestyle
297
00:18:58,041 --> 00:18:59,959
and recruitment for jihad.
298
00:19:00,041 --> 00:19:01,667
So everyone's looking
for a sense of purpose
299
00:19:01,750 --> 00:19:04,500
and meaning and
significance in life
300
00:19:04,583 --> 00:19:07,166
and the jihadist
milieu presents itself
301
00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:09,083
as a David versus
Goliath mentality
302
00:19:09,166 --> 00:19:10,750
for those that
are disenfranchised.
303
00:19:10,834 --> 00:19:13,166
We give a family to those
that never had a family before.
304
00:19:13,250 --> 00:19:16,125
Prisons have becoming breeding
grounds for recruitment,
305
00:19:16,208 --> 00:19:18,166
for the very reason that
it's very easy to take someone
306
00:19:18,250 --> 00:19:20,625
who has an affiliation
with a gang and convince them
307
00:19:20,709 --> 00:19:23,291
that they should act out and lash out against their society
308
00:19:23,375 --> 00:19:24,792
because they already have that.
309
00:19:24,875 --> 00:19:27,333
You present Islam as
an ability to transform that
310
00:19:27,417 --> 00:19:28,834
into something
powerful and positive.
311
00:19:28,917 --> 00:19:32,000
It gives structure
where there was none
312
00:19:32,083 --> 00:19:34,417
and it can be very
beneficial at first.
313
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:38,041
They start to go to school,
they start to associate with positive religious friends.
314
00:19:38,125 --> 00:19:40,625
Their interest in reading
and studying changes,
315
00:19:40,709 --> 00:19:42,667
but it's really part and parcel
316
00:19:42,750 --> 00:19:45,250
of that first step
into extremism.
317
00:19:45,333 --> 00:19:46,792
It is a major tool
for recruitment
318
00:19:46,875 --> 00:19:48,417
'cause you're selling
a complete lifestyle
319
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:49,834
in the same way
that a gang sells
320
00:19:49,917 --> 00:19:51,667
a complete
countercultural lifestyle.
321
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:54,625
You're selling a countercultural,
gang-like lifestyle.
322
00:19:54,709 --> 00:19:56,750
And so the two
correlate rather well.
323
00:20:01,583 --> 00:20:05,166
Having left university in 2009,
324
00:20:05,250 --> 00:20:06,667
they cast their eyes
around the world
325
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:10,542
and the region
they land on is Somalia
326
00:20:10,625 --> 00:20:14,667
because Somalia is in the grip
of an Islamic revolution.
327
00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:16,792
Somalia was
the only jihad in town
328
00:20:16,875 --> 00:20:19,041
as far as they were concerned.
329
00:20:19,125 --> 00:20:20,667
Looking at it from his eyes,
330
00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:23,792
all he wants to do
is go and take part
331
00:20:23,875 --> 00:20:28,041
in what he would describe
as a humanitarian mission.
332
00:20:28,125 --> 00:20:32,500
He thinks that going to join
an Islamist group in Somalia
333
00:20:32,583 --> 00:20:35,542
is like working
with children in crisis.
334
00:20:35,625 --> 00:20:37,250
You know, conveniently
ignores the fact
335
00:20:37,333 --> 00:20:39,166
that Al-Shabaab,
they've been involved
336
00:20:39,250 --> 00:20:42,000
in a number of terror
atrocities already,
337
00:20:42,083 --> 00:20:43,875
they've got blood
on their hands,
338
00:20:43,959 --> 00:20:48,458
they are a hugely destabilizing
force in the region.
339
00:20:55,333 --> 00:20:59,500
March 2009, Emwazi teamed
up with a couple of friends
340
00:20:59,583 --> 00:21:02,500
and they set off to Tanzania
341
00:21:02,583 --> 00:21:05,917
where they said they
were going to go on safari.
342
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,083
I know and we know,
we were running operations
343
00:21:20,166 --> 00:21:23,083
against West London
Islamists at the time
344
00:21:23,166 --> 00:21:25,959
and we were fully aware
of their intentions,
345
00:21:26,041 --> 00:21:28,542
which were not
to go to a safari.
346
00:21:37,083 --> 00:21:39,917
When they arrived in Dar es Salaam,
347
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,125
they were greeted by the Tanzanian Security Services.
348
00:21:44,208 --> 00:21:49,125
They were locked up for the night,
subject to beatings,
349
00:21:49,208 --> 00:21:51,208
generally roughed
up you might say,
350
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:57,750
and we know all this because
of Emwazi's own accounts
351
00:21:57,834 --> 00:21:59,834
of what happened to him.
352
00:22:27,875 --> 00:22:31,750
They went back via Amsterdam,
when they arrived at Amsterdam,
353
00:22:31,834 --> 00:22:35,333
they were met again by
security service officers
354
00:22:35,417 --> 00:22:39,500
from both the Dutch
security service and MI5.
355
00:22:58,041 --> 00:23:01,291
He was quizzed in Amsterdam for 12 or so hours.
356
00:23:01,375 --> 00:23:04,625
On his return to Dover
he was further questioned
357
00:23:04,709 --> 00:23:06,834
by British Security Services.
358
00:23:06,917 --> 00:23:08,542
We made approaches to him,
359
00:23:08,625 --> 00:23:11,000
we wanted to give him the
opportunity to work for us
360
00:23:11,083 --> 00:23:14,959
and to actually desist
from becoming a terrorist.
361
00:23:30,959 --> 00:23:32,458
They rammed home this idea
362
00:23:32,542 --> 00:23:35,667
that life could become
uncomfortable for him
363
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:38,792
unless of course he wanted
to cooperate with them.
364
00:23:38,875 --> 00:23:41,959
Perhaps let us know what some
of your friends are up to.
365
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,625
To Emwazi this was
a red rag to a bull.
366
00:23:45,709 --> 00:23:48,500
This is not something
that he's prepared to do.
367
00:23:48,583 --> 00:23:52,000
It's an ultimate betrayal of
everything that he has become.
368
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:17,417
The challenge for the service in the
context of Jihadi John is understanding
369
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:19,750
how his mental state is evolving
370
00:24:19,834 --> 00:24:21,750
because there's lots
going on in his life,
371
00:24:21,834 --> 00:24:24,917
lots of traumatic events that
would be traumatic to anybody
372
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,959
let alone somebody who's already got
a sense of persecution by the state.
373
00:24:30,041 --> 00:24:32,291
If there's any suggestion at all
374
00:24:32,375 --> 00:24:35,041
that it may have
the opposite effect,
375
00:24:35,125 --> 00:24:37,125
then the recruitment
ought not to take place.
376
00:24:37,208 --> 00:24:40,333
There's always a risk when you make these approaches
377
00:24:40,417 --> 00:24:44,208
and the chances of
success are in any event
378
00:24:44,291 --> 00:24:47,750
fairly minimal,
but you can't not do them.
379
00:24:47,834 --> 00:24:50,208
You have to give
an individual an opportunity
380
00:24:50,291 --> 00:24:51,625
to not go down that path.
381
00:24:51,709 --> 00:24:53,041
But we've got to be careful.
382
00:24:53,125 --> 00:24:58,750
There's a nature/nurture
debate within that.
383
00:24:58,834 --> 00:25:03,417
Was he always likely to carry
out that kind of activity
384
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:06,417
or did he carry out that activity just because he was approached.
385
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:09,875
I think it's unlikely
that was the turning point.
386
00:25:09,959 --> 00:25:13,834
Emwazi now had something
to tell his friends.
387
00:25:13,917 --> 00:25:15,834
He'd been stopped by the cops.
388
00:25:15,917 --> 00:25:17,709
He'd been insulted,
he would say,
389
00:25:17,792 --> 00:25:19,250
by the security services.
390
00:25:19,333 --> 00:25:22,250
He'd received
a beating in Tanzania.
391
00:25:22,333 --> 00:25:25,125
You can imagine how proud
he was, he'd come of age.
392
00:25:25,208 --> 00:25:27,792
He was a serious
jihadi player now.
393
00:25:42,083 --> 00:25:45,291
I mean in my line of work,
I remember monitoring Al-Qaeda
394
00:25:45,375 --> 00:25:47,792
and by chance happened
to track
395
00:25:47,875 --> 00:25:49,834
the rumblings
of another group,
396
00:25:49,917 --> 00:25:52,375
another sort of
fringe organization
397
00:25:52,458 --> 00:25:54,917
that had sprouted
from old Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
398
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,542
Baghdadi had spent much
of 2010 building a network
399
00:25:57,625 --> 00:26:01,542
of veteran jihadists who had
been running the course of time
400
00:26:01,625 --> 00:26:04,041
to find the next big conflict.
401
00:26:06,375 --> 00:26:08,083
As the Syrian struggle intensifies,
402
00:26:08,166 --> 00:26:10,417
the battle to remove
the Assad regime
403
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:13,959
is pulling in volunteer fighters from across the Arab world.
404
00:26:15,542 --> 00:26:18,500
But the chaos unleashed by
the uprising has also drawn in
405
00:26:18,583 --> 00:26:21,834
foreign jihadists,
Islamic extremists,
406
00:26:21,917 --> 00:26:23,500
some believed to be
affiliated to Al-Qaeda.
407
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,709
And Abu Akbar Al-Baghdadi
saw an opportunity
408
00:26:28,792 --> 00:26:31,500
and so he dispatched
an operative named
409
00:26:31,583 --> 00:26:33,667
Al-Julani to Syria,
410
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:36,875
and Al-Julani created
the Jabhat al-Nusra,
411
00:26:36,959 --> 00:26:40,667
which was the initial extreme
Islamic presence in Syria.
412
00:26:40,750 --> 00:26:42,667
So far,
US support for the rebels
413
00:26:42,750 --> 00:26:45,083
has been limited to
non-lethal assistance,
414
00:26:45,166 --> 00:26:48,125
communications equipment,
humanitarian aid,
415
00:26:48,208 --> 00:26:49,667
but no weapons.
416
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:51,458
Arming a fragmented opposition
417
00:26:51,542 --> 00:26:54,208
that has some extremist
elements carries a risk,
418
00:26:54,291 --> 00:26:57,792
analysts say, but so does
staying on the side lines.
419
00:26:57,875 --> 00:27:00,333
What we've done
in the case of Syria
420
00:27:00,417 --> 00:27:02,542
is just enough
to keep the war alive,
421
00:27:02,625 --> 00:27:04,750
but never enough
to allow it to be won.
422
00:27:04,834 --> 00:27:09,041
We never provided the support
for the moderate elements
423
00:27:09,125 --> 00:27:12,959
of this uprising, and it was
the more extreme elements
424
00:27:13,041 --> 00:27:15,792
that were pursuing
the bolder action.
425
00:27:15,875 --> 00:27:17,792
Jabhat al-Nusra started to embed themselves
426
00:27:17,875 --> 00:27:20,500
within the rebel forces
in Syria and this was at a time
427
00:27:20,583 --> 00:27:22,208
when a lot of Rebel groups,
428
00:27:22,291 --> 00:27:23,750
whether they were
Islamists or not,
429
00:27:23,834 --> 00:27:25,417
they were pretty disorganized
430
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:28,083
and so any level of
organization filled a vacuum,
431
00:27:28,166 --> 00:27:29,667
and Baghdadi
was ready to do that
432
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:32,792
because of the work
he'd been doing since 2010.
433
00:27:32,875 --> 00:27:37,458
What Baghdadi built
in Syria swept back in to
434
00:27:37,542 --> 00:27:40,208
first western Iraq
drawing strength and money
435
00:27:40,291 --> 00:27:43,792
and ammunition and explosives
and vehicles and so forth.
436
00:27:43,875 --> 00:27:46,333
This was a terrorist army
437
00:27:46,417 --> 00:27:49,083
and they spread through
Iraq really like a cancer,
438
00:27:49,166 --> 00:27:51,709
and they move through
the Sunni portions of Iraq.
439
00:27:51,792 --> 00:27:53,917
They get dangerously
close to Baghdad,
440
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,834
The Iraqi government is losing control.
441
00:27:56,917 --> 00:27:59,750
This is happening
with unbelievable speed.
442
00:27:59,834 --> 00:28:01,750
A violent Islamic
group has launched
443
00:28:01,834 --> 00:28:03,709
something of an invasion.
444
00:28:03,792 --> 00:28:06,417
A Sunni Islamic terror group formed last year
445
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:09,834
after being expelled from
Al-Qaeda for being too radical.
446
00:28:09,917 --> 00:28:11,500
But who are they?
447
00:28:11,583 --> 00:28:13,875
They're the Islamic
State in Iraq and Syria,
448
00:28:13,959 --> 00:28:15,709
I-S-I-S for short.
449
00:28:15,792 --> 00:28:18,750
And so you have ultimately tens of thousands
450
00:28:18,834 --> 00:28:22,166
of disenchanted Muslims
who come to rise up
451
00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:26,000
in this very twisted
interpretation of Islam
452
00:28:26,083 --> 00:28:30,250
that is propagated by a leader
with extraordinary vision
453
00:28:30,333 --> 00:28:32,750
and quite extraordinary
operational skills
454
00:28:32,834 --> 00:28:35,417
and this is, of course,
Al-Baghdadi.
455
00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:38,625
The latest reports are
that police forces in Mosul
456
00:28:38,709 --> 00:28:41,959
were taking off their uniforms,
laying down their guns and leaving.
457
00:28:42,041 --> 00:28:43,583
There is a video
458
00:28:43,667 --> 00:28:45,333
that has been released
by this group ISIS
459
00:28:45,417 --> 00:28:48,583
that shows what seems
to be a very grisly massacre
460
00:28:48,667 --> 00:28:52,709
about 150 Iraqi soldiers
lined up, executed.
461
00:28:52,792 --> 00:28:57,417
The ISIS guys are effectively,
using medieval warfare ethics.
462
00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:59,250
Of course, human society
has moved on
463
00:28:59,333 --> 00:29:02,667
in the ensuing centuries
and now we don't kill prisoners
464
00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:03,834
and we don't take slaves.
465
00:29:23,667 --> 00:29:25,750
But for ISIS they reject modern convention.
466
00:29:25,834 --> 00:29:29,208
They're trying to stick to literal interpretations of texts
467
00:29:29,291 --> 00:29:31,583
from the 7th and 8th centuries.
468
00:29:31,667 --> 00:29:35,041
So this is a battle for
the heart and soul of Islam.
469
00:29:47,834 --> 00:29:50,458
In May 2009, Mohammed Emwazi
470
00:29:50,542 --> 00:29:53,083
has been through
quite an ordeal.
471
00:29:53,166 --> 00:29:55,375
When he finally
gets back to London,
472
00:29:55,458 --> 00:29:58,208
still smarting
from the indignities
473
00:29:58,291 --> 00:30:01,792
of the interrogations
and detentions,
474
00:30:01,875 --> 00:30:04,750
he then discovers
that his fiancée's family
475
00:30:04,834 --> 00:30:07,333
have received a visit
from the security services.
476
00:30:30,625 --> 00:30:33,959
So his fiancée was approached and,
of course,
477
00:30:34,041 --> 00:30:35,417
she was then
deterred if you like.
478
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:37,500
She then walks away from him.
479
00:30:37,583 --> 00:30:41,959
For them,
who are a very conservative Somali family.
480
00:30:42,041 --> 00:30:44,000
This is a problem.
481
00:30:44,083 --> 00:30:46,667
Not only have they
messed with his own life,
482
00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:49,208
they've messed
with his girlfriend's life.
483
00:30:57,750 --> 00:31:00,667
This is a transgression that confirms everything
484
00:31:00,750 --> 00:31:05,208
that he's been told about
the British Security Services.
485
00:31:05,291 --> 00:31:07,542
Bilal Berjawi,
who'd returned back to London
486
00:31:07,625 --> 00:31:10,083
after being trained in
a training camp in East Africa
487
00:31:10,166 --> 00:31:13,959
and, of course, he was
inspiring his little cohort.
488
00:31:14,041 --> 00:31:17,500
The point about Berjawi was that he could motivate
489
00:31:17,583 --> 00:31:19,667
all of the London
boys and if he said,
490
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:21,792
"Let's go 'round rattling tins
491
00:31:21,875 --> 00:31:23,875
and collecting cash
outside the mosques,"
492
00:31:23,959 --> 00:31:25,250
then they'd all do it
493
00:31:25,333 --> 00:31:26,750
and Emwazi obviously
got caught up in that.
494
00:31:26,834 --> 00:31:29,333
The money was being transferred
back over to Somalia,
495
00:31:29,417 --> 00:31:30,875
then obviously being
used to buy firearms
496
00:31:30,959 --> 00:31:32,375
and to support Al-Shabaab.
497
00:31:32,458 --> 00:31:34,750
Effectively that's
terrorist fundraising,
498
00:31:34,834 --> 00:31:36,125
that's what he was engaged in.
499
00:31:39,625 --> 00:31:42,917
While he's being stopped when he goes out, questioned.
500
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,750
He's being followed,
he's having to get involved
501
00:31:45,834 --> 00:31:48,208
in counter surveillance
activities,
502
00:31:48,291 --> 00:31:50,625
so he's sort of jumping on
trains at the last minute.
503
00:31:50,709 --> 00:31:52,750
He's leaving his
mobile phone at home.
504
00:31:52,834 --> 00:31:54,709
He's meeting in parks
with associates.
505
00:31:54,792 --> 00:31:57,709
I mean he's looking
very suspicious.
506
00:31:57,792 --> 00:32:02,875
As a young Muslim on the fringes of extremist activities
507
00:32:02,959 --> 00:32:04,750
he was a legitimate target.
508
00:32:04,834 --> 00:32:07,834
In fact, the service would
have been failing in its duty
509
00:32:07,917 --> 00:32:11,667
if it didn't keep him under
some kind of observation.
510
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:13,792
What you have with individuals like this,
511
00:32:13,875 --> 00:32:16,417
you have an emerging
intelligence picture,
512
00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:19,291
based on intelligence
that you're receiving
513
00:32:19,375 --> 00:32:22,041
from individuals that are
associating with them,
514
00:32:22,125 --> 00:32:25,583
who are working for us
and they're telling us
515
00:32:25,667 --> 00:32:29,166
that he's becoming more
hard-lined, more extremist
516
00:32:29,250 --> 00:32:32,000
and more of a threat.
517
00:32:32,083 --> 00:32:36,000
Emwazi's family were concerned about their oldest son.
518
00:32:36,083 --> 00:32:38,583
His younger brother Omar,
who I met and who told me
519
00:32:38,667 --> 00:32:40,583
that the family hatched a plan
520
00:32:40,667 --> 00:32:44,625
where he would travel to Kuwait,
stay with his grandmother
521
00:32:44,709 --> 00:32:46,709
and he would escape,
not just the attention
522
00:32:46,792 --> 00:32:49,625
of the security services,
but also the influence
523
00:32:49,709 --> 00:32:52,458
of the gang
that he was running with
524
00:32:52,542 --> 00:32:53,875
and that's what he did.
525
00:32:53,959 --> 00:32:56,542
He took a job with
a computer company
526
00:32:56,625 --> 00:32:58,917
where he was involved in the
technical side of the company
527
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,208
and he also had
a salesman role as well
528
00:33:01,291 --> 00:33:04,792
and the boss thought he
was an excellent worker.
529
00:33:04,875 --> 00:33:06,875
He'd met another girlfriend,
530
00:33:06,959 --> 00:33:10,500
someone who he also
wanted to marry.
531
00:33:10,583 --> 00:33:12,625
So he was still intent
on having a family life.
532
00:33:12,709 --> 00:33:16,041
He was enjoying his new life,
he was happy.
533
00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:23,834
It's always a question
about what drives a terrorist
534
00:33:23,917 --> 00:33:25,792
to become a terrorist.
535
00:33:25,875 --> 00:33:28,667
And it's often
a range of motivations.
536
00:33:28,750 --> 00:33:31,500
It's not just a top-down
process of recruitment.
537
00:33:31,583 --> 00:33:33,000
As we used to say,
the obligation
538
00:33:33,083 --> 00:33:34,709
is not to convert
the entire world,
539
00:33:34,792 --> 00:33:37,834
but to make the truth accessible
to those that seek it,
540
00:33:37,917 --> 00:33:39,000
so these are seekers.
541
00:33:39,083 --> 00:33:40,542
If you look at what motivates
542
00:33:40,625 --> 00:33:43,875
and what motivated young
people to go out to Syria
543
00:33:43,959 --> 00:33:48,125
many of them were going
to pursue a romantic notion
544
00:33:48,208 --> 00:33:52,500
of a high-minded,
religiously inspired, faithful,
545
00:33:52,583 --> 00:33:56,542
pure way of life in
a way that young people
546
00:33:56,625 --> 00:33:58,875
in lots of countries will want
to do something worthwhile
547
00:33:58,959 --> 00:34:00,166
with their lives.
548
00:34:00,250 --> 00:34:02,250
Brutal honesty,
I didn't want to sit
549
00:34:02,333 --> 00:34:04,709
in a nine-to-five job.
550
00:34:04,792 --> 00:34:09,208
I wanted to be part
of something bigger.
551
00:34:09,291 --> 00:34:12,792
My dad, joined the RAF
when he was around about 17.
552
00:34:12,875 --> 00:34:15,333
He saw a lot of suffering,
a lot of things there.
553
00:34:15,417 --> 00:34:17,375
I think that's
when he first started
554
00:34:17,458 --> 00:34:19,542
to get this love
of helping people
555
00:34:19,625 --> 00:34:22,291
I feel especially attracted
by the Middle East
556
00:34:22,375 --> 00:34:26,375
because it is close
and still very different,
557
00:34:26,458 --> 00:34:30,000
and it is also where the roots
of our civilization are.
558
00:34:31,667 --> 00:34:33,375
I became a
holy warrior at one point.
559
00:34:33,458 --> 00:34:37,000
At the age of 19, I took
part in jihad in Afghanistan
560
00:34:37,083 --> 00:34:39,542
fighting against
Afghan communist soldiers
561
00:34:39,625 --> 00:34:41,250
who were backed
by the Soviet Union.
562
00:34:41,333 --> 00:34:42,709
For me,
the experience of the jihad
563
00:34:42,792 --> 00:34:44,208
was actually very positive
564
00:34:44,291 --> 00:34:46,417
and we were defending
oppressed people
565
00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:49,250
and taking part in military
activity when you're 19,
566
00:34:49,333 --> 00:34:52,500
it's really cool
to fire guns at that age.
567
00:34:54,583 --> 00:34:58,583
Jim was driven by what he saw
568
00:34:58,667 --> 00:35:03,375
and the more he saw of
the suffering of the people,
569
00:35:03,458 --> 00:35:06,750
the more compelled he felt
to tell their stories.
570
00:35:06,834 --> 00:35:08,709
So there was a dilemma
around the journalists
571
00:35:08,792 --> 00:35:11,083
and the aid workers who
were traveling out there
572
00:35:11,166 --> 00:35:14,458
and in many respects they were causing us more and more problems.
573
00:35:14,542 --> 00:35:18,250
My dad went over to Croatia and then on to Libya
574
00:35:18,333 --> 00:35:22,959
just giving out aid and then
he got the job going to Syria.
575
00:35:23,041 --> 00:35:26,667
Syria was the single biggest humanitarian crisis at the time.
576
00:35:26,750 --> 00:35:28,583
I felt like I had
something to offer.
577
00:35:28,667 --> 00:35:32,125
Um...
I guess it was exciting.
578
00:35:32,208 --> 00:35:34,959
I thought that I got some
addiction to adrenaline,
579
00:35:35,041 --> 00:35:38,834
but while some war
reporters may be
580
00:35:38,917 --> 00:35:40,417
only driven by adrenaline,
581
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:43,291
I was also driven to
tell the story of people.
582
00:35:43,375 --> 00:35:45,625
And I think as it
got more dangerous,
583
00:35:45,709 --> 00:35:51,166
more and more media
were pulling out of Syria
584
00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:54,417
and so I think he felt
more and more compelled
585
00:35:54,500 --> 00:35:57,834
to do what he felt
he knew how to do.
586
00:35:57,917 --> 00:35:59,750
And of course to a war reporter,
587
00:35:59,834 --> 00:36:00,959
it's part of their day job
588
00:36:01,041 --> 00:36:02,542
to go to these difficult areas,
589
00:36:02,625 --> 00:36:05,583
but there was just massively
high risk for anyone
590
00:36:05,667 --> 00:36:06,792
traveling into that region.
591
00:36:17,375 --> 00:36:19,500
At one time,
you had Islamic State
592
00:36:19,583 --> 00:36:22,375
pulling people out of cars,
abducting them
593
00:36:22,458 --> 00:36:24,959
and then they were filming
all of this process.
594
00:36:25,041 --> 00:36:27,000
And these particular videos
595
00:36:27,083 --> 00:36:29,875
have been deliberately put
out in the open for ISIS
596
00:36:29,959 --> 00:36:35,417
to communicate its processes
of rooting out spies
597
00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:38,917
and people who are trying to
undermine the cause for ISIS.
598
00:36:46,375 --> 00:36:50,000
Once an individual knows that they are under the scrutiny
599
00:36:50,083 --> 00:36:53,041
of the state they
then have to develop,
600
00:36:53,125 --> 00:36:55,125
if you like, cover stories
for their activity.
601
00:36:55,208 --> 00:36:59,250
Unfortunately,
Emwazi has problems with his teeth.
602
00:36:59,333 --> 00:37:00,709
He tries Kuwaiti dentists,
603
00:37:00,792 --> 00:37:03,333
but none of them can solve
his severe tooth ache.
604
00:37:03,417 --> 00:37:06,834
He can't sleep,
so he speaks to his family
605
00:37:06,917 --> 00:37:08,583
and they say come back.
606
00:37:08,667 --> 00:37:10,542
We were receiving
intelligence that potentially
607
00:37:10,625 --> 00:37:13,709
he's still aspiring to
become a hardened terrorist.
608
00:37:13,792 --> 00:37:16,333
I would only say that
what we don't know is
609
00:37:16,417 --> 00:37:17,959
what else he's doing in Kuwait.
610
00:37:18,041 --> 00:37:21,041
All we know is that he's
coming back and forth.
611
00:37:21,125 --> 00:37:23,542
So he comes back
for the second time.
612
00:37:23,625 --> 00:37:26,917
Of course raising again the suspicion of the authorities
613
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,542
that he was not content
with his life in Kuwait.
614
00:37:29,625 --> 00:37:33,333
He turns up at Heathrow Airport a few days later,
615
00:37:33,417 --> 00:37:36,208
this time he's
detained in the airport.
616
00:37:36,291 --> 00:37:37,750
According to his father,
617
00:37:37,834 --> 00:37:40,667
he's prevented
from going back to Kuwait,
618
00:37:40,750 --> 00:37:42,834
not by the Kuwaiti
Intelligence Services,
619
00:37:42,917 --> 00:37:44,542
but by British pressure
620
00:37:44,625 --> 00:37:46,583
on the Kuwaiti
Intelligence Services.
621
00:37:46,667 --> 00:37:48,375
Would it be a legitimate use
622
00:37:48,458 --> 00:37:51,417
of the security services
powers to invite another state
623
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:53,792
to decline a visa? Possibly.
624
00:37:53,875 --> 00:37:56,166
But it's equally as plausible
that the Kuwaiti government
625
00:37:56,250 --> 00:37:58,041
just didn't want him
in the country.
626
00:37:58,125 --> 00:38:00,709
Unfortunately,
he learns while he's in London
627
00:38:00,792 --> 00:38:02,583
that Kuwaiti Security Services
628
00:38:02,667 --> 00:38:05,667
have visited his
Kuwaiti fiancée's family.
629
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:07,083
They have introduced the idea
630
00:38:07,166 --> 00:38:10,417
that he may be
linked to terrorism.
631
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,583
Again, the family
call the wedding off.
632
00:38:13,667 --> 00:38:16,959
His whole life is being,
as far as he is concerned,
633
00:38:17,041 --> 00:38:18,750
funneled in one direction.
634
00:38:18,834 --> 00:38:20,458
Can't go to Kuwait,
635
00:38:20,542 --> 00:38:23,750
finding it impossible
to exist in London,
636
00:38:23,834 --> 00:38:27,041
his intentions are now
focused on extreme lifestyle,
637
00:38:27,125 --> 00:38:28,208
the full jihad.
638
00:38:33,458 --> 00:38:36,625
Emwazi was defiant
even in those early days
639
00:38:36,709 --> 00:38:39,583
in terms of his approaching
an organization called CAGE,
640
00:38:39,667 --> 00:38:43,917
who purport to represent the interests of Islamic causes.
641
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,208
He visits CAGE,
he discusses with them
642
00:38:46,291 --> 00:38:49,542
his problems he's having
with the security services.
643
00:38:49,625 --> 00:38:51,542
They suggest that
if he really wants
644
00:38:51,625 --> 00:38:54,041
to get the security
services off his case,
645
00:38:54,125 --> 00:38:55,542
he should go public.
646
00:38:55,625 --> 00:39:00,166
And this is when I am
introduced to Mohammed Emwazi.
647
00:39:00,250 --> 00:39:03,667
We speak to each other on the telephone,
we switch emails.
648
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:06,583
Emwazi and I agreed
to meet at a cafe.
649
00:39:06,667 --> 00:39:11,208
It became very clear early on
that this was a serious man.
650
00:39:11,291 --> 00:39:14,667
This wasn't someone who
thought it was interesting,
651
00:39:14,750 --> 00:39:16,250
exciting perhaps, to sit down
652
00:39:16,333 --> 00:39:17,917
and chat about his experiences.
653
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,792
This was a defiant young man,
654
00:39:19,875 --> 00:39:23,750
who was convinced that
he had been the victim
655
00:39:23,834 --> 00:39:27,125
of a wrongdoing,
and it was my job to try
656
00:39:27,208 --> 00:39:30,917
and help him right that wrong,
which was fine by me,
657
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,959
because give us a good story,
and I'll print it.
658
00:39:34,041 --> 00:39:35,291
That was my approach.
659
00:39:35,375 --> 00:39:37,083
But as the conversation
went on,
660
00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:39,583
he started to tell
me about the fiancées
661
00:39:39,667 --> 00:39:43,625
and how the police had
destroyed these engagements,
662
00:39:43,709 --> 00:39:46,709
and that was what
sold his story to me.
663
00:39:46,792 --> 00:39:51,000
It seemed to me, if I believed him,
a real step too far.
664
00:39:58,625 --> 00:40:01,959
So, by approaching CAGE,
by speaking to a journalist,
665
00:40:02,041 --> 00:40:06,667
this was his strategy for
countering our interventions.
666
00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:08,834
These are the early signs of him
667
00:40:08,917 --> 00:40:12,667
if you like being offensive
against the state.
668
00:40:15,125 --> 00:40:17,542
Unfortunately,
he'd emailed me back
669
00:40:17,625 --> 00:40:19,792
saying he'd spoken
to the families
670
00:40:19,875 --> 00:40:22,417
and he wasn't confident
they would agree
671
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:24,583
to have their pictures
in the newspaper.
672
00:40:24,667 --> 00:40:27,250
He had pictures, but he
couldn't pass them on to me
673
00:40:27,333 --> 00:40:29,333
because that would
be a breach of trust.
674
00:40:29,417 --> 00:40:32,250
So, I had sort of
half a story, really.
675
00:40:32,333 --> 00:40:35,166
So, we never really got
the story off the ground,
676
00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:39,083
and that was the last
contact I had with him.
677
00:40:42,291 --> 00:40:43,875
Syrian government forces
678
00:40:43,959 --> 00:40:46,750
continued to bombard
Aleppo beating back rebels
679
00:40:46,834 --> 00:40:48,917
of the Free Syrian Army,
but the battle
680
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,542
for the country's largest city
681
00:40:50,625 --> 00:40:53,500
is also taking
a deadly toll on civilians.
682
00:40:53,583 --> 00:40:55,709
The regime has bombed
hospitals, homes,
683
00:40:55,792 --> 00:40:58,625
even people standing
in line for bread.
684
00:40:58,709 --> 00:41:01,709
I guess the biggest,
most obvious silence,
685
00:41:01,792 --> 00:41:04,583
was Thanksgiving of 2012.
686
00:41:04,667 --> 00:41:10,875
Jim was always very cognizant
of holidays or birthdays, or...
687
00:41:10,959 --> 00:41:13,291
and certainly Thanksgiving.
688
00:41:13,375 --> 00:41:16,250
To not hear from him was odd...
689
00:41:17,542 --> 00:41:20,917
and so we were a bit concerned.
690
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,250
And it actually
was the next morning,
691
00:41:23,333 --> 00:41:24,834
the morning after Thanksgiving,
692
00:41:24,917 --> 00:41:27,709
when one of his colleagues
called to tell us
693
00:41:27,792 --> 00:41:29,625
that he had been captured.
694
00:41:29,709 --> 00:41:33,208
So...
that confirmed our fear.
695
00:41:41,709 --> 00:41:44,250
Raqqa was taken six weeks or so
696
00:41:44,333 --> 00:41:46,500
before I arrived in the city
697
00:41:46,583 --> 00:41:49,375
and I wanted to do mostly
political reporting.
698
00:41:49,458 --> 00:41:54,333
We entered the former headquarters of the Ba'ath Party.
699
00:41:54,417 --> 00:41:59,125
The following day we came
back to their headquarters
700
00:41:59,208 --> 00:42:01,834
and they just attacked
us in the street.
701
00:42:01,917 --> 00:42:03,250
That was a trap.
702
00:42:05,083 --> 00:42:07,542
And they drove me
for about 20 minutes.
703
00:42:09,667 --> 00:42:13,917
When they removed the blindfold
I was in a bathroom
704
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,959
and they locked the door.
705
00:42:19,625 --> 00:42:25,041
I noticed the bars of the window
were potentially a bit weak
706
00:42:25,125 --> 00:42:30,875
and in the evening, I removed
the bars jumped outside.
707
00:42:30,959 --> 00:42:34,875
I was free and that was one
of the most exciting nights
708
00:42:34,959 --> 00:42:38,375
of my life, even
though I was terrified,
709
00:42:38,458 --> 00:42:42,208
especially the first
100 meters or so that I ran,
710
00:42:42,291 --> 00:42:45,625
and I was praying that
no one would have seen me.
711
00:42:47,250 --> 00:42:52,834
But after I took some distance,
I was like, Oh, that's so good!
712
00:42:52,917 --> 00:42:55,458
That's so good!
I am winning!
713
00:42:56,458 --> 00:42:57,792
These bastards!
714
00:42:58,792 --> 00:43:00,000
What a good trick!
715
00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:09,875
I was euphoric.
716
00:43:13,041 --> 00:43:14,750
I wanted to reach Raqqa.
717
00:43:14,834 --> 00:43:18,333
I noticed already the lights
of Raqqa on the horizon,
718
00:43:18,417 --> 00:43:24,041
so I had the direction
and very early in the morning
719
00:43:24,125 --> 00:43:25,792
I arrived in a village.
720
00:43:25,875 --> 00:43:30,166
As I entered the streets
all the dogs start barking...
721
00:43:32,166 --> 00:43:36,250
and I'm like, "Oh, shit,
I wanted to be discreet."
722
00:43:36,333 --> 00:43:42,000
And the first people I met
were two guys wearing pajamas,
723
00:43:42,083 --> 00:43:43,583
and they were jihadis.
724
00:43:43,667 --> 00:43:45,166
I couldn't recognize them
725
00:43:45,250 --> 00:43:48,458
because nothing differentiated
jihadis wearing pajamas
726
00:43:48,542 --> 00:43:50,625
from someone else
wearing pajamas,
727
00:43:50,709 --> 00:43:55,375
and they took me back to
the local police station
728
00:43:55,458 --> 00:44:00,583
and they rode me back
to the very same cell.
729
00:44:00,667 --> 00:44:05,000
To be taken back is
almost worse than to be taken.
730
00:44:06,333 --> 00:44:08,750
I was like... ahh!
731
00:44:08,834 --> 00:44:09,875
Wow.
732
00:44:09,959 --> 00:44:11,917
Now the real shit begins.
733
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,000
In 2012, Emwazi's two mentors,
734
00:44:24,083 --> 00:44:27,667
Bilal Berjawi and Mohamed Sakr,
are killed in drone strikes
735
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:30,250
by the American administration.
736
00:44:30,333 --> 00:44:33,000
This must have a been a devastating moment for him
737
00:44:33,083 --> 00:44:34,542
because while they were away,
738
00:44:34,625 --> 00:44:37,917
Emwazi was close
to both their families.
739
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,625
He was involved in looking
after Bilal Berjawi's, um, son.
740
00:44:42,709 --> 00:44:45,125
He took a sort of
an uncle's role.
741
00:44:45,208 --> 00:44:47,500
I think it was probably
a turning point.
742
00:44:47,583 --> 00:44:49,917
And then you have a bigger problem on your hands
743
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,834
because then they're
more determined to travel
744
00:44:51,917 --> 00:44:54,917
and they'll find a way,
as indeed Emwazi did.
745
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,333
At some point
in 2012, Mohammed Emwazi
746
00:44:58,417 --> 00:45:00,667
managed to slip
out of the country.
747
00:45:00,750 --> 00:45:03,291
Perhaps he joined
a convoy with other friends,
748
00:45:03,375 --> 00:45:06,959
we're not entirely
sure who he went with.
749
00:45:07,041 --> 00:45:11,500
So what we'd hoped
to stop came to pass.
750
00:45:11,583 --> 00:45:14,709
In a sense all we did was
held back the inevitable.
751
00:45:14,792 --> 00:45:18,625
Whether we contributed to
his further radicalization
752
00:45:18,709 --> 00:45:23,709
and his clear anger and vitriol
against the British state
753
00:45:23,792 --> 00:45:27,792
by stopping him from travel
is an interesting question.
754
00:45:30,875 --> 00:45:33,458
More than 70,000 Syrian refugees
755
00:45:33,542 --> 00:45:36,792
have flooded into Turkey
in the past 24 hours,
756
00:45:36,875 --> 00:45:38,667
according to UN officials,
757
00:45:38,750 --> 00:45:42,792
and that number could
grow to more than 100,000.
758
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:49,792
I was working for an organization called Impact Initiative
759
00:45:49,875 --> 00:45:51,917
so we were doing the humanitarian data assessment,
760
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,583
providing data that would inform humanitarian programming.
761
00:45:55,667 --> 00:45:58,834
David was a,
he was a big guy.
762
00:45:58,917 --> 00:46:00,166
When you first meet him,
763
00:46:00,250 --> 00:46:03,917
he was someone
who inspires confidence
764
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,583
when you're going into places.
765
00:46:05,667 --> 00:46:07,250
He was a wonderful guy.
766
00:46:07,333 --> 00:46:10,000
We had very similar ideas
as to the good and the bad
767
00:46:10,083 --> 00:46:11,542
of what we were doing.
768
00:46:11,625 --> 00:46:13,250
I think we connected
really quickly
769
00:46:13,333 --> 00:46:17,333
and felt comfortable
around each other.
770
00:46:19,667 --> 00:46:22,583
We spent the Saturday,
Sunday primarily in IBP camps
771
00:46:22,667 --> 00:46:25,417
moving around and also for me,
it was the first time
772
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:26,792
that I was in Syria.
773
00:46:28,291 --> 00:46:31,333
The 12th of March,
I think was a Tuesday,
774
00:46:31,417 --> 00:46:35,291
we'd gone in in the morning
and we went to a town,
775
00:46:35,375 --> 00:46:39,291
a small town called Atarib,
and on our way back,
776
00:46:39,375 --> 00:46:42,667
I was on the phone
with my boss in Geneva,
777
00:46:42,750 --> 00:46:47,750
and at one stage we
passed two black cars.
778
00:46:47,834 --> 00:46:50,667
We were on a dirt track
and we got to a junction
779
00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:52,000
where the road sort of widened
780
00:46:52,083 --> 00:46:55,625
and became a more
normal road I guess,
781
00:46:55,709 --> 00:46:58,250
and that's where these cars
who had been now behind us,
782
00:46:58,333 --> 00:46:59,917
sort of one of them overtook.
783
00:47:08,125 --> 00:47:13,500
They blocked us out,
and these masked fighters jumped out and surrounded the car.
784
00:47:13,583 --> 00:47:16,417
I actually dropped the phone
with my boss still on the line.
785
00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:18,500
I managed to say to him
that we were getting kidnapped,
786
00:47:18,583 --> 00:47:20,333
that we had a problem.
787
00:47:20,417 --> 00:47:22,000
It all happened very,
very quickly.
788
00:47:22,083 --> 00:47:24,875
I just have like
flash recollections.
789
00:47:31,875 --> 00:47:35,875
I just remember the car,
faced down on the ground,
790
00:47:35,959 --> 00:47:39,667
in the boot, David was
put in just before me,
791
00:47:39,750 --> 00:47:41,709
and then they couldn't
get the boot shut,
792
00:47:41,792 --> 00:47:45,667
and that's where I saw a guy
on his bicycle, cycle past.
793
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:48,667
You could see
he was sort of like,
794
00:47:48,750 --> 00:47:51,625
but at the same time
he just cycled continually.
795
00:47:51,709 --> 00:47:55,000
It just happened in a flash.
796
00:47:55,083 --> 00:47:58,917
The next thing you know,
we're speeding away, very very fast.
797
00:48:03,667 --> 00:48:05,208
On my 16th birthday,
798
00:48:05,291 --> 00:48:07,000
I was actually in France
with some friends.
799
00:48:07,083 --> 00:48:09,458
My dad would always
contact me on my birthday,
800
00:48:09,542 --> 00:48:11,750
no matter where he was
and it got later on at night
801
00:48:11,834 --> 00:48:13,583
and I thought,
something's not right
802
00:48:13,667 --> 00:48:15,875
and I started to get
a sinking feeling,
803
00:48:15,959 --> 00:48:18,375
so I phoned my mum quite
upset and said to her,
804
00:48:18,458 --> 00:48:20,750
"Look I've got
a really bad feeling.
805
00:48:20,834 --> 00:48:22,750
You need to find
out what's happened."
806
00:48:22,834 --> 00:48:24,875
My head automatically
assumed the worst,
807
00:48:24,959 --> 00:48:26,625
so when she said
he was kidnapped
808
00:48:26,709 --> 00:48:29,041
it was actually
a part of a relief
809
00:48:29,125 --> 00:48:31,375
to find out he
hadn't been killed,
810
00:48:31,458 --> 00:48:33,083
but of course your
mind goes everywhere.
811
00:48:33,166 --> 00:48:35,333
I thought why would
someone kidnap someone
812
00:48:35,417 --> 00:48:37,959
who was only there to help.
813
00:48:43,875 --> 00:48:47,375
So Emwazi finds a way out to the new frontier,
814
00:48:47,458 --> 00:48:50,125
to the new global
jihad in Syria,
815
00:48:50,208 --> 00:48:52,291
and very quickly
finds a new mentor,
816
00:48:52,375 --> 00:48:54,333
a Chechen warlord
called Shishani,
817
00:48:54,417 --> 00:48:58,709
who was leading the ground
called K.A.M. within Syria,
818
00:48:58,792 --> 00:49:00,208
and it was really
a breakaway group
819
00:49:00,291 --> 00:49:02,792
from Al-Qaeda
or al-Nusra front.
820
00:49:02,875 --> 00:49:07,917
Shishani,
a man who'd had war experience in Chechnya,
821
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,583
had developed a brutal reputation for committing atrocities,
822
00:49:12,667 --> 00:49:18,083
but who saw in Emwazi someone who would follow orders to the letter.
823
00:49:18,166 --> 00:49:20,417
Who would carry out almost any brutal act
824
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:22,041
if directed to do so,
825
00:49:22,125 --> 00:49:25,000
and Emwazi became quite
well-known and reliable,
826
00:49:25,083 --> 00:49:27,792
if you like, to the leadership
of this new group.
827
00:49:38,875 --> 00:49:42,375
Kata'ib Al Muhajireen had become slightly fractured,
828
00:49:42,458 --> 00:49:45,333
half the group was
aligned with Al-Qaeda,
829
00:49:45,417 --> 00:49:47,834
and the other half,
led by Shishani,
830
00:49:47,917 --> 00:49:49,834
were more interested
in making links
831
00:49:49,917 --> 00:49:53,083
with the emerging
Islamic State as is now.
832
00:49:53,166 --> 00:49:56,875
And Shishani decided
he would take his group
833
00:49:56,959 --> 00:50:00,750
to join the Islamic State,
and with him...
834
00:50:01,875 --> 00:50:03,500
Mohammed Emwazi followed.
835
00:50:04,917 --> 00:50:06,250
Once within Islamic State,
836
00:50:06,333 --> 00:50:07,959
Emwazi and Shishani are led
837
00:50:08,041 --> 00:50:10,917
by the Emir of Aleppo,
Amr al-Absi.
838
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,834
Al-Absi's a seasoned terrorist
839
00:50:12,917 --> 00:50:15,291
and a close confident
of the ISIS leader,
840
00:50:15,375 --> 00:50:16,917
Al Bakr Al-Baghdadi.
841
00:50:18,417 --> 00:50:19,959
Under the guidance of Al-Absi,
842
00:50:20,041 --> 00:50:22,875
Emwazi and Shishani,
along with some UK recruits.
843
00:50:22,959 --> 00:50:26,375
Alexander Kotey, Aine Davis,
and El Shafee El-sheik,
844
00:50:26,458 --> 00:50:29,709
started a mass
hostage-taking campaign
845
00:50:29,792 --> 00:50:31,667
all across Northern Syria.
846
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:34,667
With that, they captured
hundreds of Syrian prisoners,
847
00:50:34,750 --> 00:50:39,709
but they also captured a very important group of western hostages.
848
00:50:39,792 --> 00:50:43,709
The Islamic State emirs felt
that because of his loyalty
849
00:50:43,792 --> 00:50:45,542
and because of his willingness
850
00:50:45,625 --> 00:50:48,709
to carry out acts of
brutality without question,
851
00:50:48,792 --> 00:50:51,333
Emwazi would be
perfect for this,
852
00:50:51,417 --> 00:50:53,333
and perhaps they were right.
853
00:50:53,417 --> 00:50:56,375
So, Emwazi,
this career jihadist,
854
00:50:56,458 --> 00:50:58,125
is moved through the ranks.
855
00:50:58,208 --> 00:51:01,166
He graduates effectively,
suddenly with the opportunity
856
00:51:01,250 --> 00:51:04,667
to actually fulfill his dreams
as a proper global jihadi.
857
00:51:14,291 --> 00:51:17,959
The faces of most of our guards,
we haven't seen them.
858
00:51:18,041 --> 00:51:20,583
The funny thing is
that we nicknamed them.
859
00:51:20,667 --> 00:51:22,375
It's a kind of
coping mechanism.
860
00:51:22,458 --> 00:51:27,000
There is something you don't
control, you bad guard.
861
00:51:27,083 --> 00:51:30,417
It is the name that
I give to you,
862
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:32,417
and this you will
never control it.
863
00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:36,583
The most common name that
were known through the media
864
00:51:36,667 --> 00:51:39,166
were, of course, The Beatles.
865
00:51:39,250 --> 00:51:40,959
The guys that
we nicknamed The Beatles
866
00:51:41,041 --> 00:51:45,709
were British born,
native British accents.
867
00:51:45,792 --> 00:51:47,083
And they were the first people
868
00:51:47,166 --> 00:51:48,834
that conversed
with us in the car.
869
00:51:51,250 --> 00:51:53,375
When they'd taken
our passports, I think,
870
00:51:53,458 --> 00:51:56,417
the very first thing
was when they said,
871
00:51:56,500 --> 00:52:00,166
"David, welcome to Syria,
you mutt,"
872
00:52:00,250 --> 00:52:02,375
or something like that,
873
00:52:02,458 --> 00:52:04,083
'cause I think they'd
looked through his passport
874
00:52:04,166 --> 00:52:07,625
and then they asked David
if I spoke any English.
875
00:52:07,709 --> 00:52:09,875
So, they actually kidnapped you?
876
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:11,917
Yep.
877
00:52:14,208 --> 00:52:20,500
And so, they reappeared
and reappeared throughout,
878
00:52:20,583 --> 00:52:22,583
um...
879
00:52:22,667 --> 00:52:24,375
that first month.
880
00:52:24,458 --> 00:52:29,000
So,
the Beatles were obviously British hostage takers.
881
00:52:29,083 --> 00:52:31,959
We understood that they
probably were friends
882
00:52:32,041 --> 00:52:34,583
even before arriving to Syria
883
00:52:34,667 --> 00:52:37,583
because they were very close.
884
00:52:37,667 --> 00:52:40,208
They were not always together,
885
00:52:40,291 --> 00:52:42,792
but most of the time
at least two of them
886
00:52:42,875 --> 00:52:44,375
would come together.
887
00:52:44,458 --> 00:52:45,792
John was the boss.
888
00:52:45,875 --> 00:52:49,625
He was the one giving
orders to the others.
889
00:52:49,709 --> 00:52:53,709
He was the one in charge of
collecting the proofs of lives.
890
00:52:55,917 --> 00:52:58,917
George was the punisher.
891
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,083
He was the most
violent in the group.
892
00:53:05,917 --> 00:53:07,583
I remember his, uh...
893
00:53:09,083 --> 00:53:11,583
fat hands,
894
00:53:11,667 --> 00:53:13,458
and the third one was Ringo.
895
00:53:14,792 --> 00:53:16,959
Ringo was the preacher.
896
00:53:17,041 --> 00:53:19,041
The less violent
of these three.
897
00:53:19,125 --> 00:53:22,750
The one would from time
to time explain to us
898
00:53:22,834 --> 00:53:25,417
why they were doing that.
899
00:53:25,500 --> 00:53:28,667
Emwazi was in control
of what happened.
900
00:53:28,750 --> 00:53:32,041
I mean,
he initiated and allowed a lot of our punishment,
901
00:53:32,125 --> 00:53:34,083
and he was very much involved.
902
00:53:34,166 --> 00:53:37,625
He also sort of set
the tone for the guards.
903
00:53:37,709 --> 00:53:39,250
They took a lot
of their inspiration
904
00:53:39,333 --> 00:53:42,875
from what they had heard
about places like Abu Ghraib,
905
00:53:42,959 --> 00:53:46,542
and what the coalition forces
in other countries had done.
906
00:53:46,625 --> 00:53:51,125
Guantanamo was referenced
all the time
907
00:53:51,208 --> 00:53:52,792
by Emwazi, in particular.
908
00:53:52,875 --> 00:53:54,625
But the orange materials,
909
00:53:54,709 --> 00:53:59,166
at various stages we were
wearing jumpsuits, all of us.
910
00:53:59,250 --> 00:54:01,917
And so things like
stress positions,
911
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,000
and not allowing us to sleep,
just stand up all night.
912
00:54:07,417 --> 00:54:08,834
Things like that.
913
00:54:08,917 --> 00:54:13,750
Some of us received much
more violence than others,
914
00:54:13,834 --> 00:54:18,417
and that was for reasons
that I couldn't understand.
915
00:54:18,500 --> 00:54:21,500
We knew there were
another two captives
916
00:54:21,583 --> 00:54:23,083
in the same location.
917
00:54:23,166 --> 00:54:25,709
You could hear their screams,
and they could hear ours.
918
00:54:25,792 --> 00:54:28,458
And eventually we met them.
919
00:54:28,542 --> 00:54:31,208
It was James Foley
and John Cantlie.
920
00:54:34,208 --> 00:54:36,375
And they put us into
a cell to do a royal rumble.
921
00:54:36,458 --> 00:54:39,917
Basically, get us to
fight against each other.
922
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,667
The cell that
John and James were in,
923
00:54:42,750 --> 00:54:45,750
because the ceiling was so
high at the top it had a latch.
924
00:54:45,834 --> 00:54:51,083
So, they brought us in and
then went up to the top,
925
00:54:51,166 --> 00:54:53,834
and then were like giving
us instructions about,
926
00:54:53,917 --> 00:54:57,166
and they were
watching from above,
927
00:54:57,250 --> 00:54:59,792
and so they had
Dave and me in one corner
928
00:54:59,875 --> 00:55:03,458
and John and James in the other
and they wanted us to fight,
929
00:55:03,542 --> 00:55:04,667
and, like...
930
00:55:06,041 --> 00:55:08,208
we obviously weren't
gonna fight each other,
931
00:55:08,291 --> 00:55:09,959
but you kinda
couldn't not fight.
932
00:55:10,041 --> 00:55:12,166
I mean there was
potential for punishment.
933
00:55:12,250 --> 00:55:14,500
I remember we sort of went
through the motions initially,
934
00:55:14,583 --> 00:55:17,291
realized we couldn't 'cause they were saying if you don't start,
935
00:55:17,375 --> 00:55:21,792
you know, and you have to,
we were like skeletons by then.
936
00:55:21,875 --> 00:55:25,750
I think every one of us
fainted at some stage or another
937
00:55:25,834 --> 00:55:27,959
just from exhaustion.
938
00:55:28,041 --> 00:55:30,792
So, we weren't exactly
hurting each other.
939
00:55:30,875 --> 00:55:33,166
But, they found it
highly entertaining.
940
00:56:03,583 --> 00:56:06,875
Baghdadi has this extraordinary vision.
941
00:56:06,959 --> 00:56:11,917
He clearly has very impressive
organizational skills,
942
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,166
however twisted the ideology,
943
00:56:14,250 --> 00:56:17,166
however twisted
the interpretation of Islam,
944
00:56:17,250 --> 00:56:19,208
however extreme the actions,
945
00:56:19,291 --> 00:56:22,208
but he does something
truly extraordinary.
946
00:56:22,291 --> 00:56:25,667
In 2014 we saw the Declaration of the Caliphate.
947
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:28,041
It was directed to
idealistic people,
948
00:56:28,125 --> 00:56:30,709
who wanted to live
in the perfect state,
949
00:56:30,792 --> 00:56:33,250
and who had learnt
since their childhood
950
00:56:33,333 --> 00:56:35,959
about this wonderful
idea of the caliphate,
951
00:56:36,041 --> 00:56:39,375
which a lot of Muslims
very much cherish,
952
00:56:39,458 --> 00:56:40,750
including Muslims
who would not have
953
00:56:40,834 --> 00:56:44,083
the slightest sympathy
with the likes of ISIS.
954
00:56:44,166 --> 00:56:46,417
It was a bit of a chicken
or an egg situation for ISIS.
955
00:56:46,500 --> 00:56:49,667
It was establish the caliphate
and then figure out a way
956
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:51,542
of making it work later on.
957
00:56:51,625 --> 00:56:53,834
Announce it to the world
and you would get attention
958
00:56:53,917 --> 00:56:55,125
and people would flock.
959
00:57:08,834 --> 00:57:10,250
I think it's like grooming,
960
00:57:10,333 --> 00:57:13,458
and even worse than that,
because they are promising them,
961
00:57:13,542 --> 00:57:15,792
and to the group,
this is not us,
962
00:57:15,875 --> 00:57:18,000
we are just passing
the message of god.
963
00:57:19,083 --> 00:57:21,125
This is an order from god.
964
00:57:21,208 --> 00:57:24,291
Here is the Koranic verse
telling you that you should go,
965
00:57:24,375 --> 00:57:26,667
you should migrate
to the caliphate.
966
00:57:26,750 --> 00:57:29,291
You should leave the land
of the Kuffr, which is Britain,
967
00:57:29,375 --> 00:57:30,959
and go to the caliphate.
968
00:57:31,041 --> 00:57:36,083
Propaganda was very well
targeted to individual groups.
969
00:57:36,166 --> 00:57:39,375
They'd be different
videos for Australians,
970
00:57:39,458 --> 00:57:41,458
for people in the Philippines,
971
00:57:41,542 --> 00:57:44,667
for people who had
specific interests.
972
00:57:44,750 --> 00:57:47,875
Videos for young girls,
videos for young boys.
973
00:57:47,959 --> 00:57:49,792
Some would be very
violent and horrifying,
974
00:57:49,875 --> 00:57:53,625
some would have nothing,
but soft focus pictures
975
00:57:53,709 --> 00:57:55,959
of the golden corn being reaped
976
00:57:56,041 --> 00:57:59,542
and the beautiful fish being
brought in on the fishing boat.
977
00:57:59,625 --> 00:58:02,709
The videos are there to make them actually
978
00:58:02,792 --> 00:58:04,083
feel some positive emotion.
979
00:58:04,166 --> 00:58:06,291
So for example,
getting them to feel
980
00:58:06,375 --> 00:58:08,458
that there's
a sense of solidarity
981
00:58:08,542 --> 00:58:12,875
amongst the ranks of ISIS,
and that brotherly comradeship.
982
00:58:12,959 --> 00:58:16,792
And all of this gives
the audience an impression
983
00:58:16,875 --> 00:58:20,667
that this is
the non-trivial world.
984
00:58:20,750 --> 00:58:24,667
That in living with ISIS,
you will actually start
985
00:58:24,750 --> 00:58:26,625
to feel a sense of purpose.
986
00:58:26,709 --> 00:58:28,834
It is not just
about killing people,
987
00:58:28,917 --> 00:58:30,583
but there's a wider cause
988
00:58:30,667 --> 00:58:32,917
that you're sacrificing
your life for.
989
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:37,834
That, in a way,
was one of ISIS' unique selling points.
990
00:58:37,917 --> 00:58:40,834
They had as they would
put it a country to sell,
991
00:58:40,917 --> 00:58:43,625
and they were able to
present it as a country
992
00:58:43,709 --> 00:58:45,125
where you might want to live.
993
00:58:45,208 --> 00:58:46,667
You would look at
some of it and think,
994
00:58:46,750 --> 00:58:48,500
well, I'd like to go
and live there.
995
00:58:48,583 --> 00:58:51,709
If you believed it, you would
want to go and live there.
996
00:58:51,792 --> 00:58:53,625
And so many people,
particularly young people,
997
00:58:53,709 --> 00:58:57,375
went out there on
the basis of that dream
998
00:58:57,458 --> 00:59:00,417
that the propagandists
had put together.
999
00:59:06,667 --> 00:59:09,000
There was a lot of talk around the fact
1000
00:59:09,083 --> 00:59:10,709
that there was
an Islamic State now,
1001
00:59:10,792 --> 00:59:12,792
that we were
prisoners of a state,
1002
00:59:12,875 --> 00:59:15,375
therefore, there were rules.
1003
00:59:15,458 --> 00:59:19,500
I spent a couple of weeks in a cell on my own,
1004
00:59:19,583 --> 00:59:21,625
and then at the end
of the year,
1005
00:59:21,709 --> 00:59:26,166
we are 19 men in the same cell.
1006
00:59:26,250 --> 00:59:27,875
Being in a group is hard too.
1007
00:59:27,959 --> 00:59:31,583
I mean you're whatever number
of grown men in a tiny room,
1008
00:59:31,667 --> 00:59:35,875
foot-to-toe
in terms of how you sleep,
1009
00:59:35,959 --> 00:59:37,208
right next to each other.
1010
00:59:37,291 --> 00:59:38,542
For a couple of months,
1011
00:59:38,625 --> 00:59:41,667
the Beatles were not
violent with us.
1012
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:44,250
It was more
like an enterprise,
1013
00:59:44,333 --> 00:59:46,875
so you don't damage
the merchandise.
1014
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,208
Some of the proofs
of lives were obtained
1015
00:59:49,291 --> 00:59:50,917
in a neighboring room.
1016
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,917
Jihadi John would then be
the one directing the filming.
1017
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,291
So he would give us
the instructions.
1018
00:59:57,375 --> 01:00:00,333
"Okay, you arrive this side,
you say that,
1019
01:00:00,417 --> 01:00:02,208
and then you stand up
and leave the frame."
1020
01:00:02,291 --> 01:00:05,333
And... he would stand
next to the camera,
1021
01:00:05,417 --> 01:00:09,000
and there would be another
Beatle behind the camera...
1022
01:00:10,041 --> 01:00:11,959
just pressing the button.
1023
01:00:16,250 --> 01:00:18,041
There have also been fresh clashes
1024
01:00:18,125 --> 01:00:20,667
in the rebel enclave of
Aleppo, Syria's second city,
1025
01:00:20,750 --> 01:00:23,083
and once its commercial heart.
1026
01:00:26,083 --> 01:00:28,500
As ISIS begin to lose control of Aleppo,
1027
01:00:28,583 --> 01:00:31,583
Al-Absi, Emwazi,
and his fellow Beatles flee
1028
01:00:31,667 --> 01:00:34,875
to the safety of the state's
de facto capital, Raqqa.
1029
01:00:36,250 --> 01:00:39,291
Before fleeing,
they kill around 300
1030
01:00:39,375 --> 01:00:41,125
of the Syrian prisoners,
1031
01:00:41,208 --> 01:00:42,542
but they keep hold of
their precious cargo
1032
01:00:42,625 --> 01:00:43,667
of Western hostages.
1033
01:00:45,417 --> 01:00:47,750
Once they're in Raqqa,
Baghdadi appoints Al-Absi
1034
01:00:47,834 --> 01:00:50,750
to oversee the state's
media department.
1035
01:00:50,834 --> 01:00:52,500
This position gives
Al-Absi and his cell,
1036
01:00:52,583 --> 01:00:54,875
which includes Emwazi,
1037
01:00:54,959 --> 01:00:56,834
ample opportunity to reek havoc
1038
01:00:56,917 --> 01:00:58,959
using the hostages that remain.
1039
01:01:11,250 --> 01:01:13,625
I appeal to the people who have Jim
1040
01:01:13,709 --> 01:01:15,542
to give us some information
1041
01:01:15,625 --> 01:01:18,125
in terms of his welfare,
his health.
1042
01:01:18,208 --> 01:01:23,000
I tried very hard
to remind our government
1043
01:01:23,083 --> 01:01:28,375
that Jim was alive, but we
really didn't receive much help.
1044
01:01:28,458 --> 01:01:31,250
We received an email
from his captors,
1045
01:01:31,333 --> 01:01:35,208
they asked for
proof-of-life questions,
1046
01:01:35,291 --> 01:01:39,041
so they could assure
us they had Jim,
1047
01:01:39,125 --> 01:01:42,000
and we were very excited
to hear from them.
1048
01:01:42,083 --> 01:01:43,834
I mean of course there
was the proofs of life
1049
01:01:43,917 --> 01:01:46,041
where like the one
thing that sort of said
1050
01:01:46,125 --> 01:01:50,041
there's obviously
something going on.
1051
01:01:50,125 --> 01:01:55,041
I mean,
we all were aware of various government positions on this issue.
1052
01:01:55,125 --> 01:01:58,375
Well, we don't negotiate
with terrorists or pay ransoms
1053
01:01:58,458 --> 01:02:01,208
or pursue those
kinds of activities
1054
01:02:01,291 --> 01:02:03,875
because it just
begets more terrorism,
1055
01:02:03,959 --> 01:02:05,709
it encourages more actions.
1056
01:02:05,792 --> 01:02:09,583
But of course, it's a very
difficult policy to explain
1057
01:02:09,667 --> 01:02:13,166
to the loved ones of someone
who has been kidnapped
1058
01:02:13,250 --> 01:02:15,917
and of course
the overall policy objective,
1059
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,625
I think even they
can understand why,
1060
01:02:18,709 --> 01:02:21,542
but of course they want
an exception in their case.
1061
01:02:21,625 --> 01:02:24,709
We were back and forth on
email for about a month
1062
01:02:24,792 --> 01:02:28,458
and then they cut off all
communication after that.
1063
01:02:28,542 --> 01:02:32,458
So it was kind of a tease,
if you will.
1064
01:02:34,166 --> 01:02:35,792
Dave and I always believed that
1065
01:02:35,875 --> 01:02:38,583
because we were taken together,
there was a good chance
1066
01:02:38,667 --> 01:02:41,083
that we would be
negotiated for together.
1067
01:02:41,166 --> 01:02:43,500
I genuinely believed
that there was an option
1068
01:02:43,583 --> 01:02:46,333
and then the moment
that you realized...
1069
01:02:48,333 --> 01:02:51,166
that I realized,
through that sort of
1070
01:02:51,250 --> 01:02:53,834
final proof-of-life process...
1071
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:56,834
that this was only for me.
1072
01:02:59,166 --> 01:03:04,959
It was probably one
of the most bittersweet...
1073
01:03:06,208 --> 01:03:10,917
um... emotions
I think I've ever had.
1074
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,375
When they eventually came
to the room and said,
1075
01:03:13,458 --> 01:03:17,625
"Okay, the four French here,
come and we were blindfold,
1076
01:03:17,709 --> 01:03:20,625
handcuffs,
and we take you out."
1077
01:03:20,709 --> 01:03:25,417
It was like, I just had time
to say well goodbye everybody.
1078
01:03:25,500 --> 01:03:29,583
We had no time for
big hugs or whatever.
1079
01:03:29,667 --> 01:03:32,542
For some reason the day
that I was picked up,
1080
01:03:32,625 --> 01:03:35,291
the Beatles were
super aggressive.
1081
01:03:35,375 --> 01:03:38,000
They pulled me into
the center, then they tried to,
1082
01:03:38,083 --> 01:03:41,250
they gave me a beating,
but then they took it out
1083
01:03:41,333 --> 01:03:44,083
on everyone around as well.
1084
01:03:44,166 --> 01:03:47,500
And just before they put
the blanket over my head,
1085
01:03:47,583 --> 01:03:52,041
they made me go back to
the door, and sort of say...
1086
01:03:52,125 --> 01:03:56,709
"and say goodbye to your friends,"
or something like that.
1087
01:03:56,792 --> 01:03:59,834
Normally when you are taken hostage,
1088
01:03:59,917 --> 01:04:02,625
once you are released
you are free.
1089
01:04:02,709 --> 01:04:06,542
But in our case,
when were released,
1090
01:04:06,625 --> 01:04:09,542
we left 15 pals behind us.
1091
01:04:09,625 --> 01:04:14,667
You know these guys aren't
just people or friends,
1092
01:04:14,750 --> 01:04:17,166
they're brothers.
1093
01:04:17,250 --> 01:04:19,458
And I think I spent more
time sleeping next to David
1094
01:04:19,542 --> 01:04:23,291
than any girl at
that point in my life.
1095
01:04:30,750 --> 01:04:34,250
We were very hopeful when the Spanish hostages
1096
01:04:34,333 --> 01:04:36,208
were released in February.
1097
01:04:36,291 --> 01:04:39,166
Shortly thereafter,
the French were released,
1098
01:04:39,250 --> 01:04:41,583
and so we were
incredibly hopeful.
1099
01:04:41,667 --> 01:04:44,375
They told us that Jim
was alive and well,
1100
01:04:44,458 --> 01:04:47,917
and strong,
and were very encouraging.
1101
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:54,250
And I actually returned
to France in July of 2014,
1102
01:04:54,333 --> 01:04:57,375
hoping to get some
help from France.
1103
01:04:57,458 --> 01:04:58,875
It was while I was in Paris
1104
01:04:58,959 --> 01:05:02,208
that we received
the threatening email.
1105
01:05:02,291 --> 01:05:03,959
Threatening to kill Jim.
1106
01:05:04,041 --> 01:05:06,667
I was hopeful they
were back in touch,
1107
01:05:06,750 --> 01:05:09,667
but again I was very naive.
1108
01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:12,875
I don't know if they
ever desired to negotiate.
1109
01:05:12,959 --> 01:05:14,417
It's hard to know...
1110
01:05:15,583 --> 01:05:17,667
but certainly
not at that hour...
1111
01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:19,125
they weren't.
1112
01:05:19,208 --> 01:05:20,709
I think they had come to realize
1113
01:05:20,792 --> 01:05:24,625
that Jim was worth
more as propaganda.
1114
01:05:33,875 --> 01:05:35,959
I call on my friends,
family and loved ones
1115
01:05:36,041 --> 01:05:39,333
to rise up against my real
killers, the U.S. government.
1116
01:05:45,750 --> 01:05:48,208
I was totally unaware of it
1117
01:05:48,291 --> 01:05:51,667
until an AP reporter
1118
01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:53,792
called me sobbing...
1119
01:05:55,417 --> 01:05:59,750
and I couldn't even understand
what she was crying about,
1120
01:05:59,834 --> 01:06:02,875
and she told me
to look on Twitter.
1121
01:06:04,709 --> 01:06:07,625
So that's when I saw the image
1122
01:06:07,709 --> 01:06:09,375
and...
1123
01:06:10,750 --> 01:06:12,625
I knew it was Jim...
1124
01:06:12,709 --> 01:06:15,583
and...
that's how I found out.
1125
01:06:15,667 --> 01:06:18,542
I didn't know if
it was authentic,
1126
01:06:18,625 --> 01:06:22,709
and so I reached out
to our FBI agent,
1127
01:06:22,792 --> 01:06:25,875
but really didn't hear
back from anybody.
1128
01:06:27,417 --> 01:06:29,875
So, I didn't know if it was true
1129
01:06:29,959 --> 01:06:35,375
until the president announced
it that evening on TV.
1130
01:06:38,792 --> 01:06:42,375
So it was... you know...
1131
01:06:43,375 --> 01:06:44,875
it was, um...
1132
01:06:46,750 --> 01:06:47,792
it was awful.
1133
01:06:48,875 --> 01:06:51,125
It was really very difficult.
1134
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:58,583
The last time I
saw James and David
1135
01:06:58,667 --> 01:07:02,417
and a lot of the others was
when the videos came out.
1136
01:07:03,834 --> 01:07:08,166
And then the message
to America, it was, it said...
1137
01:07:08,250 --> 01:07:11,959
I don't like to use their words.
1138
01:07:12,041 --> 01:07:15,667
I like to, uh, be, uh...
1139
01:07:15,750 --> 01:07:18,542
precise and factual.
1140
01:07:18,625 --> 01:07:21,667
That was a...
1141
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:23,500
filmed murder.
1142
01:07:23,583 --> 01:07:24,709
That's it.
1143
01:07:29,458 --> 01:07:31,000
Of an innocent journalist.
1144
01:07:34,750 --> 01:07:35,959
Of a hostage.
1145
01:07:39,250 --> 01:07:40,458
But, um...
1146
01:07:43,458 --> 01:07:44,500
Yeah.
1147
01:07:48,750 --> 01:07:49,750
I would say...
1148
01:07:51,709 --> 01:07:53,125
we were told...
1149
01:07:55,875 --> 01:07:58,417
and then once the
first one came out,
1150
01:07:58,500 --> 01:08:00,667
sort of...
1151
01:08:00,750 --> 01:08:03,291
there was the threat
of the second, the next.
1152
01:08:15,792 --> 01:08:18,875
So then after that
you know, it's just...
1153
01:08:20,542 --> 01:08:21,583
will it, won't it,
1154
01:08:21,667 --> 01:08:23,291
and then the second...
1155
01:08:25,917 --> 01:08:27,667
and, yeah, it was just...
1156
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:35,917
David was a very complex and interesting character.
1157
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,792
Very smart.
1158
01:08:39,583 --> 01:08:42,792
Very good at
understanding people.
1159
01:08:43,959 --> 01:08:45,583
Very supportive, also.
1160
01:08:45,667 --> 01:08:49,041
Generally,
we were all very close as a group,
1161
01:08:49,125 --> 01:08:52,959
but of course everyone
has maybe one individual
1162
01:08:53,041 --> 01:08:54,875
that they would turn to...
1163
01:08:57,417 --> 01:08:59,583
and for me that was Dave.
1164
01:09:01,083 --> 01:09:03,834
Um... you know he, he...
1165
01:09:08,792 --> 01:09:10,375
I hope I was of...
1166
01:09:13,458 --> 01:09:14,959
of help to him.
1167
01:09:15,041 --> 01:09:16,208
Um...
1168
01:09:17,417 --> 01:09:21,417
But, I know, I think I was...
1169
01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:22,875
able to sort of
1170
01:09:22,959 --> 01:09:26,166
give what I could, and I
think everyone did the same.
1171
01:09:41,625 --> 01:09:44,291
I had been at my boyfriend's house that night,
1172
01:09:44,375 --> 01:09:46,500
and he lives
in the middle of nowhere,
1173
01:09:46,583 --> 01:09:48,709
next thing I know there's
a knock at the door
1174
01:09:48,792 --> 01:09:51,500
and all I can remember is
seeing the blue flashing lights
1175
01:09:51,583 --> 01:09:52,917
reflected in the window.
1176
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:54,208
I still didn't click on.
1177
01:09:54,291 --> 01:09:55,875
I thought I had done
something wrong.
1178
01:09:55,959 --> 01:09:57,792
I was terrified, thinking
what am I going to tell my mum
1179
01:09:57,875 --> 01:09:59,625
when I'm in the back
of a police car.
1180
01:09:59,709 --> 01:10:02,834
And then I heard her voice,
and my boyfriend said,
1181
01:10:02,917 --> 01:10:04,083
"Is it her dad?"
1182
01:10:04,166 --> 01:10:05,417
My mum said yeah.
1183
01:10:06,583 --> 01:10:08,417
And I remember
deliberately taking ages
1184
01:10:08,500 --> 01:10:09,875
to come out of the room
1185
01:10:09,959 --> 01:10:11,208
'cause I knew what
was going to come,
1186
01:10:11,291 --> 01:10:12,792
and I just didn't
want to hear it,
1187
01:10:12,875 --> 01:10:16,667
and my mum had said to me
a video had been released.
1188
01:10:16,750 --> 01:10:18,166
"It's of your dad."
1189
01:10:18,250 --> 01:10:21,542
And that was
the moment that I found out
1190
01:10:21,625 --> 01:10:24,291
that my dad certainly
wouldn't be coming home.
1191
01:10:33,417 --> 01:10:35,417
My name is
David Cawthorne Haines.
1192
01:10:44,291 --> 01:10:46,083
It took me months to be able to cry.
1193
01:10:46,166 --> 01:10:48,959
I didn't feel any
kind of sadness.
1194
01:10:49,041 --> 01:10:50,500
It was anger...
1195
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:53,291
and then there was also hope.
1196
01:10:53,375 --> 01:10:55,750
Hope that the others
would get out,
1197
01:10:55,834 --> 01:10:58,417
such as Alan Henning,
Peter Kassig.
1198
01:10:58,500 --> 01:11:01,291
We all prayed and hoped
that they would get out.
1199
01:11:01,375 --> 01:11:04,750
So there was public pressure to name this individual,
1200
01:11:04,834 --> 01:11:07,583
but we knew that if
we were to name Emwazi,
1201
01:11:07,667 --> 01:11:11,667
there was a high risk that
he would conduct more murders
1202
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:13,792
and more beheadings of hostages.
1203
01:11:13,875 --> 01:11:15,542
In James Foley's video,
1204
01:11:15,625 --> 01:11:17,917
obviously Steven Sotloff
was featured at the end.
1205
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,458
The life of this American citizen, Obama,
1206
01:11:20,542 --> 01:11:22,417
depends on your next decision.
1207
01:11:22,500 --> 01:11:23,667
And then the next video,
it's my dad,
1208
01:11:23,750 --> 01:11:25,625
and the one after it was Alan.
1209
01:11:25,709 --> 01:11:27,458
If you, Cameron, persist
1210
01:11:27,542 --> 01:11:28,875
in fighting the Islamic State,
1211
01:11:28,959 --> 01:11:30,917
then you,
like your master Obama,
1212
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,083
will have the blood
of your people on your hands.
1213
01:11:34,166 --> 01:11:38,458
At the time that Jihadi John
had killed his third hostage,
1214
01:11:38,542 --> 01:11:40,709
all you're able to see then,
is that this is the third,
1215
01:11:40,792 --> 01:11:43,291
and how many more of these
are there going to be?
1216
01:11:43,375 --> 01:11:46,250
What terrorists want above all
is a reaction,
1217
01:11:46,333 --> 01:11:51,083
and ISIS, and in particular
Jihadi John and his mates,
1218
01:11:51,166 --> 01:11:54,041
spent the summer
of 2014 seeking a reaction.
1219
01:11:54,125 --> 01:11:57,458
You had this sequence of
increasingly grisly videos.
1220
01:11:57,542 --> 01:12:00,750
They were very,
very skillful propaganda.
1221
01:12:00,834 --> 01:12:05,875
They recreated the medieval
barbarity of the 7th century
1222
01:12:05,959 --> 01:12:07,625
with these great
bladed weapons,
1223
01:12:07,709 --> 01:12:10,583
the beheadings, it was all
on the sands of the desert
1224
01:12:10,667 --> 01:12:13,667
and the world's media
I am afraid fell for it.
1225
01:12:13,750 --> 01:12:16,166
And of course, with
the level of interest
1226
01:12:16,250 --> 01:12:17,625
and the level of coverage,
1227
01:12:17,709 --> 01:12:20,125
the level of fear
went up as well.
1228
01:12:20,208 --> 01:12:22,166
Images were released
showing the beheading
1229
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:24,125
of American journalist
James Foley.
1230
01:12:24,208 --> 01:12:26,291
Today the entire
world is appalled.
1231
01:12:26,375 --> 01:12:27,834
It is an act of murder.
1232
01:12:27,917 --> 01:12:30,333
The video is too
graphic for us to show.
1233
01:12:30,417 --> 01:12:34,709
And it also speaks
to how barbaric
1234
01:12:34,792 --> 01:12:36,041
and gruesome this can all be.
1235
01:12:36,125 --> 01:12:38,166
All eyes are on his eyes.
1236
01:12:38,250 --> 01:12:41,083
Again speaking in English
with a British accent.
1237
01:12:42,083 --> 01:12:45,250
I recognized John, for sure.
1238
01:12:47,250 --> 01:12:48,917
The John I met there,
1239
01:12:50,917 --> 01:12:53,667
I recognized his voice.
1240
01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:57,667
I recognize his style.
1241
01:12:57,750 --> 01:12:59,458
People across this country
1242
01:12:59,542 --> 01:13:01,750
would have been
sickened by the fact
1243
01:13:01,834 --> 01:13:04,709
that it could have
been a British citizen,
1244
01:13:04,792 --> 01:13:07,792
a British citizen
who could have carried out
1245
01:13:07,875 --> 01:13:10,208
this unspeakable act.
1246
01:13:10,291 --> 01:13:11,709
Somebody must have decided
1247
01:13:11,792 --> 01:13:14,875
that allowing Emwazi
who was relatively junior,
1248
01:13:14,959 --> 01:13:19,458
to be filmed executing hostages
1249
01:13:19,542 --> 01:13:22,583
was going to be a good
and powerful idea.
1250
01:13:22,667 --> 01:13:26,000
And if you look at
Emwazi as an adversary,
1251
01:13:26,083 --> 01:13:30,750
he certainly wasn't a glorious
battlefield commander,
1252
01:13:30,834 --> 01:13:32,417
he wasn't that.
1253
01:13:32,500 --> 01:13:37,625
He wasn't high in the ISIS
hierarchy such as it was,
1254
01:13:37,709 --> 01:13:39,375
but he was a powerful
1255
01:13:39,458 --> 01:13:43,542
and credible adversary
nonetheless.
1256
01:13:43,625 --> 01:13:44,667
Why?
1257
01:13:45,917 --> 01:13:47,583
He was from us.
1258
01:13:47,667 --> 01:13:49,792
He was of us.
1259
01:13:49,875 --> 01:13:52,834
And so, he knew us
instinctively.
1260
01:13:57,333 --> 01:13:59,625
The blood of David Haines is on your hands Cameron.
1261
01:13:59,709 --> 01:14:02,250
Alan Henning
will also be slaughtered,
1262
01:14:02,333 --> 01:14:05,333
but his blood is on the hand
of the British parliament.
1263
01:14:12,041 --> 01:14:14,667
With each video
there was a sense
1264
01:14:14,750 --> 01:14:17,375
of this is getting
slightly out of control.
1265
01:14:17,458 --> 01:14:21,000
How is it that we're losing
the power dynamic here?
1266
01:14:21,083 --> 01:14:24,625
This is Emwazi telling the world about not just
1267
01:14:24,709 --> 01:14:28,792
what the Islamic State
think of America and Britain,
1268
01:14:28,875 --> 01:14:31,041
this is Mohammed Emwazi
telling the world
1269
01:14:31,125 --> 01:14:34,333
what he thinks
about Britain and America.
1270
01:14:34,417 --> 01:14:37,000
This is his very
own personal message,
1271
01:14:37,083 --> 01:14:42,333
and the venomous tone
and the snarling attacks
1272
01:14:42,417 --> 01:14:47,834
on Obama and Cameron, I think,
are very much Mohammed Emwazi.
1273
01:14:57,583 --> 01:14:59,083
I'm back, Obama,
1274
01:14:59,166 --> 01:15:01,000
and I'm back because of
your arrogant foreign policy
1275
01:15:01,083 --> 01:15:03,333
towards the Islamic State.
1276
01:15:03,417 --> 01:15:06,417
And politicians will
always want to try and present
1277
01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:08,875
the situation
as one of being in control,
1278
01:15:08,959 --> 01:15:11,000
but we clearly
weren't in control.
1279
01:15:11,083 --> 01:15:14,000
I think those awful images cut right through
1280
01:15:14,083 --> 01:15:16,750
to the American public
in the relative sanctuary
1281
01:15:16,834 --> 01:15:19,250
we felt emotionally before 9/11,
1282
01:15:19,333 --> 01:15:21,000
and then we had 9/11
and it was like,
1283
01:15:21,083 --> 01:15:25,417
oh, this was such a shock,
and then the war in Afghanistan,
1284
01:15:25,500 --> 01:15:27,500
and then Iraq.
1285
01:15:27,583 --> 01:15:29,083
So you have a war-weary
American public,
1286
01:15:29,166 --> 01:15:32,500
and then this horrific scene
of an American man murdered
1287
01:15:32,583 --> 01:15:35,625
for the world to see,
so I think it really had America
1288
01:15:35,709 --> 01:15:38,709
torn about what to go do.
1289
01:15:38,792 --> 01:15:43,625
If you threaten America,
you will find no safe haven.
1290
01:15:43,709 --> 01:15:45,125
The next ISIS video comes out,
1291
01:15:45,208 --> 01:15:46,834
the next ISIS
beheading comes out.
1292
01:15:46,917 --> 01:15:48,291
Jihadi John's on TV again.
1293
01:15:48,375 --> 01:15:50,709
"Bakr Al Baghdadi said this."
1294
01:15:50,792 --> 01:15:52,041
You know all these...
1295
01:15:52,125 --> 01:15:54,750
So there was just this
wave of information.
1296
01:15:54,834 --> 01:15:56,166
It seemed like we were losing.
1297
01:15:56,250 --> 01:15:59,500
Now I tell you we never
were losing in my mind,
1298
01:15:59,583 --> 01:16:01,583
but it sure did seem
that way at a few points.
1299
01:16:01,667 --> 01:16:03,417
Civil society will be
asking its government,
1300
01:16:03,500 --> 01:16:06,917
well why is this happening
and why can't you stop it,
1301
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:08,875
and what does it mean
for our relationships
1302
01:16:08,959 --> 01:16:11,291
with our fellow citizens
of different faiths.
1303
01:16:11,375 --> 01:16:13,500
So whatever the substance
of these issues,
1304
01:16:13,583 --> 01:16:16,208
this is just one man
doing brutal things
1305
01:16:16,291 --> 01:16:17,583
in another part of the world.
1306
01:16:17,667 --> 01:16:21,291
The effect on politics
and society is profound.
1307
01:16:21,375 --> 01:16:23,625
The prime minister made it very clear
1308
01:16:23,709 --> 01:16:26,625
that we had a responsibility
to these British citizens.
1309
01:16:26,709 --> 01:16:28,917
He took it as a high priority
1310
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:30,875
and instructed us to take
it as a high priority.
1311
01:16:35,333 --> 01:16:41,500
For us at GCHQ,
this was a largely desk screen-based campaign.
1312
01:16:41,583 --> 01:16:44,250
In Afghanistan we
could climb up towers
1313
01:16:44,333 --> 01:16:46,208
and do all the things we
need to do on the ground.
1314
01:16:46,291 --> 01:16:48,083
None of that was
possible in Raqqa.
1315
01:16:48,166 --> 01:16:51,000
If you looked at
a picture of Raqqa,
1316
01:16:51,083 --> 01:16:53,959
you would see these
little V-Sat terminals,
1317
01:16:54,041 --> 01:16:56,083
so these little satellite
dishes all over the roofs.
1318
01:16:56,166 --> 01:16:59,917
And they were connecting direct
to the internet in practice,
1319
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,542
and that's the way that
people were communicating.
1320
01:17:02,625 --> 01:17:07,208
They were not using telephone company,
GSM networks, because they didn't trust them.
1321
01:17:07,291 --> 01:17:09,542
Mohammed Emwazi, look,
he'd been reading the newspaper
1322
01:17:09,625 --> 01:17:11,125
and watching TV just
like the rest of us.
1323
01:17:11,208 --> 01:17:14,625
He knows that we're
coming after him.
1324
01:17:14,709 --> 01:17:19,000
He went to great lengths
to prevent being captured.
1325
01:17:21,083 --> 01:17:22,291
He was an interesting case
1326
01:17:22,375 --> 01:17:25,250
because he had studied
computer science
1327
01:17:25,333 --> 01:17:27,500
and he had been
in the IT business.
1328
01:17:27,583 --> 01:17:29,208
He had clearly
taught himself a lot.
1329
01:17:29,291 --> 01:17:31,125
He understood, therefore,
the best way
1330
01:17:31,208 --> 01:17:34,667
to avoid surveillance
and was good at it.
1331
01:17:36,125 --> 01:17:39,250
He communicated very rarely,
and when he did,
1332
01:17:39,333 --> 01:17:41,125
mostly around the hostages,
1333
01:17:41,208 --> 01:17:46,041
he used a whole series of
commercially available products
1334
01:17:46,125 --> 01:17:50,542
to obscure his identity,
including very strong encryption,
1335
01:17:50,625 --> 01:17:52,875
and including
virtual private networks.
1336
01:17:52,959 --> 01:17:55,500
Any one of those products
would be very, very difficult
1337
01:17:55,583 --> 01:17:57,125
for an agency to tackle.
1338
01:17:57,208 --> 01:17:59,709
What he was doing was layering
them on top of each other.
1339
01:17:59,792 --> 01:18:04,000
Any agency's ambition,
if they can find the machine
1340
01:18:04,083 --> 01:18:07,041
that a terrorist is using,
is to put something on to it
1341
01:18:07,125 --> 01:18:09,709
which will stay there
and communicate back
1342
01:18:09,792 --> 01:18:11,333
what that person is doing.
1343
01:18:11,417 --> 01:18:15,458
What Emwazi was able
to do was to ensure
1344
01:18:15,542 --> 01:18:17,500
that every time he
switched off his machine
1345
01:18:17,583 --> 01:18:20,709
it was wiped of
anything and everything,
1346
01:18:20,792 --> 01:18:22,959
and that made it
extremely difficult
1347
01:18:23,041 --> 01:18:25,667
and very, very time consuming
to do anything really
1348
01:18:25,750 --> 01:18:27,667
with his communications.
1349
01:18:27,750 --> 01:18:29,667
It's never straightforward
1350
01:18:29,750 --> 01:18:32,583
and it can take a very,
very long time
1351
01:18:32,667 --> 01:18:35,458
and in this case, of course,
it did take a long time.
1352
01:18:39,041 --> 01:18:43,375
Obama, you have started your
aerial bombardment in Sham,
1353
01:18:43,458 --> 01:18:45,333
which keeps on
striking our people.
1354
01:18:45,417 --> 01:18:47,041
So it's only right we continue
1355
01:18:47,125 --> 01:18:49,417
to strike the necks
of your people.
1356
01:18:54,291 --> 01:18:56,041
Every single time he would do something,
1357
01:18:56,125 --> 01:18:58,917
we would see a significant
spike in social media activity
1358
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:01,250
surrounding ISIS.
1359
01:19:01,333 --> 01:19:02,834
We would see a significant spike
1360
01:19:02,917 --> 01:19:05,375
in recruiting success for ISIS.
1361
01:19:05,458 --> 01:19:07,041
Know that you can't
fight any of those things
1362
01:19:07,125 --> 01:19:08,792
with bombs and bullets.
1363
01:19:08,875 --> 01:19:11,250
Those types of things had to
be fought with information.
1364
01:19:11,333 --> 01:19:13,250
And this was my responsibility,
1365
01:19:14,542 --> 01:19:17,500
to try to counter
his atrocities.
1366
01:19:17,583 --> 01:19:22,959
You have here an ordinary
young British man
1367
01:19:23,041 --> 01:19:26,625
who left London
and went into Syria.
1368
01:19:30,125 --> 01:19:32,667
Who is now appearing on the TV,
1369
01:19:32,750 --> 01:19:35,583
slaughtering people's life.
1370
01:19:35,667 --> 01:19:39,500
Obviously, this had a huge
impact on many young Muslims,
1371
01:19:39,583 --> 01:19:43,208
so that, "Wow,
I am sitting here in London,"
1372
01:19:43,291 --> 01:19:44,583
or "I'm sitting
here in Birmingham,
1373
01:19:44,667 --> 01:19:46,083
I am sitting here
in Manchester,"
1374
01:19:46,166 --> 01:19:49,250
and that he is out
there doing the fight.
1375
01:19:49,333 --> 01:19:51,709
Not only he is doing it,
but doing it in a way
1376
01:19:51,792 --> 01:19:55,917
that is very much a Hollywood
way of dramatizing things.
1377
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,333
That attracted the concern of non-Muslims
1378
01:19:58,417 --> 01:20:01,125
that are also looking for
a reason to denounce Islam.
1379
01:20:01,208 --> 01:20:03,583
If anybody wants to point
to Islam as a religion
1380
01:20:03,667 --> 01:20:06,000
that breeds barbarity,
it's Jihadi John.
1381
01:20:06,083 --> 01:20:09,834
It's a complete perfect example,
as I was back in the day.
1382
01:20:09,917 --> 01:20:12,375
But this was an exorbitant
level of violence.
1383
01:20:12,458 --> 01:20:15,333
This was a level of violence
unseen before.
1384
01:20:15,417 --> 01:20:18,125
What Jihadi John did, in my opinion,
1385
01:20:18,208 --> 01:20:21,750
for the first time
helped ordinary Muslims
1386
01:20:21,834 --> 01:20:24,875
to say, "Wow there is
something that is not right."
1387
01:20:24,959 --> 01:20:27,625
I think these things
always escalate,
1388
01:20:27,709 --> 01:20:30,625
so they started very
brutal anyway, frankly,
1389
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:32,458
the first execution video,
1390
01:20:32,542 --> 01:20:35,208
although it stopped short of
showing the actual beheading,
1391
01:20:35,291 --> 01:20:37,500
was horrific in its own way.
1392
01:20:37,583 --> 01:20:40,959
But as time went on,
for whatever reason,
1393
01:20:41,041 --> 01:20:44,625
they must have decided to
take that self-censorship away
1394
01:20:44,709 --> 01:20:45,875
and just push it all out.
1395
01:20:45,959 --> 01:20:47,500
Clearly it did escalate up,
1396
01:20:47,583 --> 01:20:49,709
and the killing of
the Jordanian pilot by fire
1397
01:20:49,792 --> 01:20:52,250
was particularly gruesome.
1398
01:20:52,333 --> 01:20:54,875
The turning point really
was when they burned the pilot.
1399
01:20:54,959 --> 01:20:57,500
The prophet Mohammed,
peace be upon him,
1400
01:20:57,583 --> 01:21:00,166
famously taught that
only the lord of fire
1401
01:21:00,250 --> 01:21:01,834
can punish with fire.
1402
01:21:01,917 --> 01:21:04,333
The burning of anything in Islam
1403
01:21:04,417 --> 01:21:07,166
that is a living being
was completely forbidden,
1404
01:21:07,250 --> 01:21:09,959
and most Muslims would
know that basic principal.
1405
01:21:10,041 --> 01:21:13,166
It was shot in a style
that was pioneered by Emwazi,
1406
01:21:13,250 --> 01:21:15,208
and it's actually
believed he was there
1407
01:21:15,291 --> 01:21:16,583
while it was being filmed.
1408
01:21:21,792 --> 01:21:23,917
And so this was a complete
eye opening moment
1409
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,750
where if anybody ever
had an ounce of sympathy
1410
01:21:26,834 --> 01:21:29,041
that was Muslim for this group,
1411
01:21:29,125 --> 01:21:31,709
it was impossible
to still continue
1412
01:21:31,792 --> 01:21:34,208
to believe that this
group represented Islam.
1413
01:21:35,917 --> 01:21:40,166
...a criminal gang that has no relation
1414
01:21:40,250 --> 01:21:41,917
to our noble religion.
1415
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:43,709
The video of the pilot
1416
01:21:43,792 --> 01:21:45,709
illustrated
the hubris of the group,
1417
01:21:45,792 --> 01:21:48,208
and it ultimately
undermined the effectiveness
1418
01:21:48,291 --> 01:21:49,875
of the ISIS propaganda machine.
1419
01:21:49,959 --> 01:21:53,125
We will redouble the vigilance,
1420
01:21:53,208 --> 01:21:58,041
and determination on
the part of a global coalition
1421
01:21:58,125 --> 01:22:02,417
to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated.
1422
01:22:02,500 --> 01:22:07,000
By being able to engage in
something so unthinkable
1423
01:22:07,083 --> 01:22:08,500
you attracted worldwide media,
1424
01:22:08,583 --> 01:22:10,000
you were in the media
stream every day,
1425
01:22:10,083 --> 01:22:11,834
you were the complete
concentration
1426
01:22:11,917 --> 01:22:14,250
of the entire
international community,
1427
01:22:14,333 --> 01:22:16,500
you also made it much
easier for people
1428
01:22:16,583 --> 01:22:19,583
to accept the fact that the
state you claim to be defending
1429
01:22:19,667 --> 01:22:21,625
should be dismantled and
should be bombed from above
1430
01:22:21,709 --> 01:22:24,000
and should incorporate
a coalition against you.
1431
01:22:24,083 --> 01:22:25,583
So as a former propagandist,
1432
01:22:25,667 --> 01:22:28,041
I would say it was
completely counterproductive.
1433
01:22:41,834 --> 01:22:43,291
What did Mohammed Emwazi mean
1434
01:22:43,375 --> 01:22:45,250
to those who were
fighting the fight
1435
01:22:45,333 --> 01:22:47,875
against the Islamic State.
1436
01:22:47,959 --> 01:22:52,250
This hunt for
Jihadi John was personal
1437
01:22:52,333 --> 01:22:55,417
and his nationality
mattered not one wit.
1438
01:22:55,500 --> 01:22:57,792
For us, this was as personal
1439
01:22:57,875 --> 01:23:00,875
as if he'd been
an American citizen.
1440
01:23:00,959 --> 01:23:06,875
What we needed to do was find,
fix and finish Emwazi.
1441
01:23:06,959 --> 01:23:11,000
A very, very important target,
and ultimately, of course,
1442
01:23:11,083 --> 01:23:14,125
as they say
in the manhunt business,
1443
01:23:14,208 --> 01:23:15,792
ended up on the X.
1444
01:23:15,875 --> 01:23:19,333
Very broadly,
there are three phases.
1445
01:23:19,417 --> 01:23:23,083
The first is just gathering
intelligence about this person,
1446
01:23:23,166 --> 01:23:26,166
based on that,
there is then a phase
1447
01:23:26,250 --> 01:23:28,500
in which you hope to build
up a pattern of life.
1448
01:23:28,583 --> 01:23:31,834
You need a certain regularity
to understand their behavior,
1449
01:23:31,917 --> 01:23:34,458
where they are going to
be on a particular day.
1450
01:23:34,542 --> 01:23:36,083
You also need to make decisions
1451
01:23:36,166 --> 01:23:38,166
about the deployment
of aerial assets
1452
01:23:38,250 --> 01:23:42,041
'cause so much of this is
about reconnaissance from above.
1453
01:23:45,917 --> 01:23:47,500
We start to realize,
1454
01:23:47,583 --> 01:23:49,625
we think we know
exactly where he is.
1455
01:23:49,709 --> 01:23:52,792
So have a drone take
a look at that spot.
1456
01:23:58,750 --> 01:24:00,500
We'd been very clear that...
1457
01:24:00,583 --> 01:24:03,000
we'd intended to minimize
civilian casualties
1458
01:24:03,083 --> 01:24:05,125
as we prosecuted this
fight against ISIS.
1459
01:24:05,208 --> 01:24:07,750
Jihadi John was able to
read between the lines
1460
01:24:07,834 --> 01:24:10,041
and he understood that
if he surrounded himself
1461
01:24:10,125 --> 01:24:12,417
with civilians,
with non-combatants,
1462
01:24:12,500 --> 01:24:15,041
that we would be very reticent
to try to strike at him.
1463
01:24:15,125 --> 01:24:18,041
And this boy knew if he had any hope for survival
1464
01:24:18,125 --> 01:24:22,208
he had to blend in
to the citizens of Raqqa.
1465
01:24:22,291 --> 01:24:27,500
He had to look from
a distance just like them.
1466
01:24:27,583 --> 01:24:31,083
It's no longer looking
for a needle in a haystack,
1467
01:24:31,166 --> 01:24:34,709
this is like looking for
a needle in a stack of needles.
1468
01:24:34,792 --> 01:24:38,333
You have to remember that these terrorists
1469
01:24:38,417 --> 01:24:41,583
are leading lives alongside
their terrorist operations.
1470
01:24:41,667 --> 01:24:43,792
Where we could see
what they were doing,
1471
01:24:43,875 --> 01:24:46,709
they were doing very
much what young men
1472
01:24:46,792 --> 01:24:48,709
of their generation
would do so,
1473
01:24:48,792 --> 01:24:52,667
so be looking at football
and porn and films,
1474
01:24:52,750 --> 01:24:55,542
but in amongst that
was attack planning
1475
01:24:55,625 --> 01:24:59,542
and violent extremist
material and, of course,
1476
01:24:59,625 --> 01:25:01,166
fueling their own impact,
1477
01:25:01,250 --> 01:25:03,667
seeing their own kind of
celebrity being created,
1478
01:25:03,750 --> 01:25:06,208
that must have
been intoxicating.
1479
01:25:06,291 --> 01:25:10,208
So the net slowly, slowly,
slowly begins to tighten.
1480
01:25:10,291 --> 01:25:11,792
Finally, yesterday he was here
1481
01:25:11,875 --> 01:25:14,625
and now we have good reason
to believe that tomorrow
1482
01:25:14,709 --> 01:25:17,041
he's gonna be there,
and that's the tipping point.
1483
01:25:17,125 --> 01:25:21,083
Once we start talking about
where do we think he's gonna be
1484
01:25:21,166 --> 01:25:23,917
that in my mind
is when I know, okay,
1485
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:25,250
we're locked in on him now.
1486
01:25:25,333 --> 01:25:26,875
I think where you
have any target,
1487
01:25:26,959 --> 01:25:30,500
who is very good at
communication security
1488
01:25:30,583 --> 01:25:33,041
they are almost always
made vulnerable by others
1489
01:25:33,125 --> 01:25:36,083
that they communicate with,
so those around them.
1490
01:25:38,667 --> 01:25:39,875
Throughout his life,
1491
01:25:39,959 --> 01:25:43,166
Mohammed Emwazi
had wanted a family,
1492
01:25:43,250 --> 01:25:46,458
he pursued two engagements,
one woman in London,
1493
01:25:46,542 --> 01:25:49,208
one in Kuwait,
it was the one desire,
1494
01:25:49,291 --> 01:25:51,709
which he continued
to pursue in Syria.
1495
01:25:51,792 --> 01:25:54,875
It turned out to be
his greatest weakness.
1496
01:25:54,959 --> 01:25:56,458
You know his family
was a little bit
1497
01:25:56,542 --> 01:25:57,959
of a vulnerability right?
1498
01:25:58,041 --> 01:26:00,208
He had his, I think,
ISIS issued wife that he got
1499
01:26:00,291 --> 01:26:01,709
when he was in Syria.
1500
01:26:01,792 --> 01:26:03,792
And he knew
that he was a target,
1501
01:26:03,875 --> 01:26:05,250
and he'd taken
appropriate action,
1502
01:26:05,333 --> 01:26:06,750
but the one thing
he couldn't do,
1503
01:26:06,834 --> 01:26:08,125
the one thing he
wasn't prepared to do,
1504
01:26:08,208 --> 01:26:10,542
was to not spend
time with his family.
1505
01:26:10,625 --> 01:26:13,291
Once he had established
a family in Raqqa,
1506
01:26:13,375 --> 01:26:14,500
they knew where to find him.
1507
01:26:14,583 --> 01:26:16,667
They didn't need
to track him 24/7.
1508
01:26:16,750 --> 01:26:18,250
They just had
to watch the family,
1509
01:26:18,333 --> 01:26:20,709
and similarly,
wait for him to turn up.
1510
01:26:20,792 --> 01:26:23,875
He was very careful about his actions,
1511
01:26:23,959 --> 01:26:26,542
but you know what,
they all slip up eventually.
1512
01:26:26,625 --> 01:26:30,458
Every one of these guys,
to a one,
1513
01:26:30,542 --> 01:26:32,500
including the most famous
one Osama Bin Laden,
1514
01:26:32,583 --> 01:26:36,333
they all make a mistake
and when they do,
1515
01:26:36,417 --> 01:26:37,834
we kill them.
1516
01:26:49,166 --> 01:26:51,709
So eventually,
we acquire our target.
1517
01:26:51,792 --> 01:26:54,208
We're fairly certain
that it's Jihadi John,
1518
01:26:54,291 --> 01:26:56,709
and we see him,
along with some colleagues.
1519
01:26:56,792 --> 01:26:57,917
Enter into a vehicle.
1520
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:59,834
So the location is Raqqa.
1521
01:26:59,917 --> 01:27:02,667
We believed at the time that he was heading to the city center,
1522
01:27:02,750 --> 01:27:04,375
and this goes on for some time.
1523
01:27:04,458 --> 01:27:06,041
He's driving around for,
I don't know,
1524
01:27:06,125 --> 01:27:08,625
it might have been 45,
it was a while.
1525
01:27:16,750 --> 01:27:18,208
Inside of that ops center,
1526
01:27:18,291 --> 01:27:21,041
the hunt for Jihadi
John was fairly routine.
1527
01:27:21,125 --> 01:27:23,125
For me personally,
I was more invested.
1528
01:27:23,208 --> 01:27:24,792
You know, he was my foe.
1529
01:27:24,875 --> 01:27:29,041
I had been trading blows with
him for months at this point.
1530
01:27:29,125 --> 01:27:32,125
So you know,
as we're following him around
1531
01:27:32,208 --> 01:27:35,333
and what we're really looking for is an opportunity to strike him.
1532
01:27:35,417 --> 01:27:37,500
You might be able
to see an area,
1533
01:27:37,583 --> 01:27:39,750
but perhaps the missile
can't negotiate
1534
01:27:39,834 --> 01:27:43,083
around the various buildings
or population density.
1535
01:27:43,166 --> 01:27:46,875
So, we're trying to
find the opportune time
1536
01:27:46,959 --> 01:27:48,208
to take the shot.
1537
01:27:48,291 --> 01:27:50,750
Because remember,
if you shoot and miss
1538
01:27:50,834 --> 01:27:52,291
well guess what, now he knows.
1539
01:27:52,375 --> 01:27:53,917
Now he knows that
we're shooting at him.
1540
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:57,750
And sure enough,
eventually he moves his vehicle
1541
01:27:57,834 --> 01:27:59,583
into a relatively open area.
1542
01:27:59,667 --> 01:28:04,333
In fact, ISIS had used
previously for executions,
1543
01:28:04,417 --> 01:28:06,125
sort of a little
poetic justice I guess.
1544
01:28:06,208 --> 01:28:10,583
His vehicle stops and we see
a figure exit the vehicle.
1545
01:28:10,667 --> 01:28:13,583
We don't know what he's doing,
but we did know that
1546
01:28:13,667 --> 01:28:16,583
this is not a bad
little location here.
1547
01:28:16,667 --> 01:28:18,375
He steps out of the vehicle,
1548
01:28:18,458 --> 01:28:19,959
and now we have an opportunity
1549
01:28:20,041 --> 01:28:23,458
to really try to triple check
that this is Jihadi John.
1550
01:28:23,542 --> 01:28:25,542
Because of the conditions,
it was night,
1551
01:28:25,625 --> 01:28:28,125
we're using infrared,
you can't see his face.
1552
01:28:28,208 --> 01:28:30,166
But we could sort
of see how he moved,
1553
01:28:30,250 --> 01:28:31,834
the cut of his jib,
so to speak.
1554
01:28:31,917 --> 01:28:33,625
You know,
the angle of his beard.
1555
01:28:33,709 --> 01:28:35,542
You know,
these things we could see.
1556
01:28:35,625 --> 01:28:37,542
Eventually we were convinced
1557
01:28:37,625 --> 01:28:38,959
that this is Jihadi John.
1558
01:28:39,041 --> 01:28:40,125
And so,
1559
01:28:40,208 --> 01:28:43,625
the floor commander
at the time orders,
1560
01:28:43,709 --> 01:28:45,500
take the shot.
1561
01:28:45,583 --> 01:28:47,083
He's left the vehicle.
1562
01:28:47,166 --> 01:28:49,417
Roger.
Let's see what he does.
1563
01:28:49,500 --> 01:28:51,041
Wait...
1564
01:28:51,125 --> 01:28:54,083
- Ready to engage.
- Standby.
1565
01:28:54,166 --> 01:28:56,125
- Engage.
- Roger.
1566
01:28:56,208 --> 01:28:57,709
Fire, hit it.
1567
01:29:01,083 --> 01:29:02,834
And then that missile's in flight
1568
01:29:02,917 --> 01:29:05,417
and the missile can fly
anywhere from I don't know
1569
01:29:05,500 --> 01:29:07,500
five to 15 seconds
and that really
1570
01:29:07,583 --> 01:29:09,375
is kind the most tense moment
1571
01:29:09,458 --> 01:29:11,667
because now that missile's gone
you can't take it back.
1572
01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:16,291
And so you have these moments,
it's all done
1573
01:29:16,375 --> 01:29:18,417
and you don't know
what's gonna happen next.
1574
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:49,667
You might ask you know,
was there high fiving
1575
01:29:49,750 --> 01:29:52,166
and celebration after this
1576
01:29:52,250 --> 01:29:56,417
and counterintuitively
the answer is no.
1577
01:29:56,500 --> 01:29:58,375
This is the serious business
1578
01:29:58,458 --> 01:30:01,834
of eradicating
an existential threat
1579
01:30:01,917 --> 01:30:03,750
by taking a human life.
1580
01:30:03,834 --> 01:30:05,750
I don't rejoice
in anyone's death,
1581
01:30:05,834 --> 01:30:08,709
but it was certainly
a good thing
1582
01:30:08,792 --> 01:30:13,333
that he was no longer able
to do the really brutal
1583
01:30:13,417 --> 01:30:15,500
and disgusting things
that we'd seen on video.
1584
01:30:15,583 --> 01:30:21,834
And yes, you could argue
that Emwazi's departure
1585
01:30:21,917 --> 01:30:23,917
lethally and instantaneously
1586
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,834
was perhaps unsatisfying.
1587
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:30,166
It wasn't
a 10-minute execution.
1588
01:30:31,667 --> 01:30:35,333
He didn't have to feel
the cut of the steel.
1589
01:30:35,417 --> 01:30:37,458
I had a mixed feeling.
1590
01:30:37,542 --> 01:30:41,792
Of course I would have
preferred to see him in court...
1591
01:30:43,333 --> 01:30:46,291
facing his charges...
1592
01:30:47,250 --> 01:30:49,750
and being blamed for
1593
01:30:49,834 --> 01:30:54,000
and answering for
the crimes he committed.
1594
01:30:55,458 --> 01:30:59,375
It was mixed feeling,
but the main feeling though
1595
01:30:59,458 --> 01:31:02,041
was the satisfaction,
1596
01:31:02,125 --> 01:31:04,583
the relief at least,
1597
01:31:04,667 --> 01:31:09,917
this person will not
harm anyone anymore.
1598
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:14,125
But... yeah in that instant,
I was well aware
1599
01:31:14,208 --> 01:31:17,500
that there were plenty of other people who would step into his shoes,
1600
01:31:17,583 --> 01:31:19,500
it would have been, um...
1601
01:31:20,875 --> 01:31:23,959
strange to see this
as a massive breakthrough.
1602
01:31:24,041 --> 01:31:25,083
It was...
1603
01:31:26,875 --> 01:31:30,583
a part of
one particular story,
1604
01:31:30,667 --> 01:31:34,041
but the ISIL threat went on.
1605
01:31:35,542 --> 01:31:37,875
We're going to have
to live with a level
1606
01:31:37,959 --> 01:31:41,125
of extreme Islamist violence
1607
01:31:41,208 --> 01:31:43,750
for some time to come,
and it will continue
1608
01:31:43,834 --> 01:31:46,667
to inspire people
in Western countries.
1609
01:31:46,750 --> 01:31:50,166
What you have are horrendous terrorist acts
1610
01:31:50,250 --> 01:31:51,500
all attributed to ISIS.
1611
01:31:51,583 --> 01:31:54,709
Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi
had not a clue
1612
01:31:54,792 --> 01:31:56,709
that any of those things
were going to happen,
1613
01:31:56,792 --> 01:32:00,458
but he didn't have to,
what they got was inspiration
1614
01:32:00,542 --> 01:32:02,375
and that's all they needed.
1615
01:32:02,458 --> 01:32:04,041
U.S.-led airstrikes are hitting the heart
1616
01:32:04,125 --> 01:32:06,125
of ISIS-controlled
territory in Syria.
1617
01:32:06,208 --> 01:32:08,166
A coalition of nations
has come together,
1618
01:32:08,250 --> 01:32:10,500
and Britain
has to do its share.
1619
01:32:10,583 --> 01:32:13,083
Day four of withering air strikes on ISIS targets.
1620
01:32:13,166 --> 01:32:15,166
Proclamations of victory over the group
1621
01:32:15,250 --> 01:32:16,917
in both Iraq and Syria.
1622
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:18,667
A secret deal reportedly allowed
1623
01:32:18,750 --> 01:32:20,000
some of the most
notorious ISIS fighters
1624
01:32:20,083 --> 01:32:21,500
to escape from
a besieged Syrian city.
1625
01:32:21,583 --> 01:32:23,875
They made an agreement
so that they didn't
1626
01:32:23,959 --> 01:32:26,875
literally have to
destroy Raqqa to save it.
1627
01:32:26,959 --> 01:32:31,125
I'm sure that was
the least bad of the options.
1628
01:32:31,208 --> 01:32:34,583
Now what you're seeing
already is the remnants
1629
01:32:34,667 --> 01:32:38,208
of these forces turning
into insurgent groups.
1630
01:32:38,291 --> 01:32:39,959
These are elusive enemies now,
1631
01:32:40,041 --> 01:32:43,417
they are no longer wearing
uniforms or flying black flags,
1632
01:32:43,500 --> 01:32:46,375
they are hiding
among the population.
1633
01:32:46,458 --> 01:32:48,875
So this is going to be
a very different threat.
1634
01:32:48,959 --> 01:32:51,041
I'm very confident
that ultimately
1635
01:32:51,125 --> 01:32:55,291
Baghdadi will find himself
on the X as well.
1636
01:32:55,375 --> 01:32:57,917
Once some of the world's most wanted,
1637
01:32:58,000 --> 01:32:59,875
but now nobody wants them.
1638
01:32:59,959 --> 01:33:02,834
The last two of the British
ISIS cell dubbed The Beatles
1639
01:33:02,917 --> 01:33:04,208
jailed in Syria.
1640
01:33:04,291 --> 01:33:05,417
How they'll face justice
1641
01:33:05,500 --> 01:33:07,542
is now a matter of hot debate.
1642
01:33:07,625 --> 01:33:09,750
Accused of waterboarding,
crucifixion,
1643
01:33:09,834 --> 01:33:12,291
accessory to beheadings
of Western hostages.
1644
01:33:12,375 --> 01:33:16,000
The Beatles, they are obsessed
with their own self-image.
1645
01:33:16,083 --> 01:33:19,417
They have gone from
capturing western journalists
1646
01:33:19,500 --> 01:33:22,125
to now trying to capture
western journalists' attention,
1647
01:33:22,208 --> 01:33:24,959
turning their stories around
as if they were victims,
1648
01:33:25,041 --> 01:33:27,917
and it's caused quite
an interesting reaction
1649
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,208
to what do we do
with people like that.
1650
01:33:30,291 --> 01:33:33,917
I would expect to attend that trial
1651
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:36,500
and what is of prime
importance to me
1652
01:33:36,583 --> 01:33:39,166
is that this trial is fair.
1653
01:33:39,250 --> 01:33:42,709
We should not give
them any chance
1654
01:33:42,792 --> 01:33:45,542
to portray themselves
as victims.
1655
01:33:45,625 --> 01:33:47,417
We are the victim.
1656
01:33:47,500 --> 01:33:50,917
They are the perpetrators,
they are the terrorists.
1657
01:33:51,041 --> 01:33:54,041
So much effort was
spent on the fanaticism
1658
01:33:54,125 --> 01:33:57,709
that had led Jihadi John
to go kill innocent people.
1659
01:33:57,792 --> 01:34:02,083
If you look at the amazing
lives of his victims,
1660
01:34:02,166 --> 01:34:06,458
these lives are great examples
of the power of networks
1661
01:34:06,542 --> 01:34:08,875
and people joining causes
higher than themselves
1662
01:34:08,959 --> 01:34:11,125
and that use of networking
and the higher cause,
1663
01:34:11,208 --> 01:34:15,417
I think, often is
drowned out by the grisly
1664
01:34:15,500 --> 01:34:17,125
and the dark and
the sensational.
1665
01:34:17,208 --> 01:34:20,000
I never, ever told my dad
how proud I was of him
1666
01:34:20,083 --> 01:34:22,417
and it's only now
when he's not here
1667
01:34:22,500 --> 01:34:25,458
that I realize how
proud I actually was.
1668
01:34:25,542 --> 01:34:28,709
When David was always
talking to his daughters.
1669
01:34:31,125 --> 01:34:32,875
He'd have his time...
1670
01:34:35,083 --> 01:34:37,834
when he just wanted
to speak to his daughters.
1671
01:34:37,917 --> 01:34:39,750
Federico and I,
1672
01:34:39,834 --> 01:34:43,417
we were kind of forced
together through this.
1673
01:34:43,500 --> 01:34:47,917
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we speak...
um... often.
1674
01:34:49,709 --> 01:34:52,208
She's remarkably
like her father...
1675
01:34:53,792 --> 01:34:56,959
in temperament and many ways.
1676
01:34:57,041 --> 01:34:59,458
I definitely see
a lot of David in her.
1677
01:34:59,542 --> 01:35:02,333
When people tell me
I'm a lot like my dad,
1678
01:35:02,417 --> 01:35:05,125
I used to always think,
I don't believe it, I don't believe it.
1679
01:35:05,208 --> 01:35:08,125
So when he says, "Oh,
you're so much like your dad,"
1680
01:35:08,208 --> 01:35:09,834
it really does ring true,
and you think,
1681
01:35:09,917 --> 01:35:12,375
Well, I must be doing
something right.
1682
01:35:15,792 --> 01:35:17,417
There was a sense in which Emwazi
1683
01:35:17,500 --> 01:35:19,709
had fulfilled his ambitions,
1684
01:35:19,792 --> 01:35:23,041
but there was also some
self-analysis by us
1685
01:35:23,125 --> 01:35:25,291
as to whether we'd actually
had the right strategy
1686
01:35:25,375 --> 01:35:26,709
for this individual.
1687
01:35:26,792 --> 01:35:29,125
On the one hand,
we had absolutely
1688
01:35:29,208 --> 01:35:31,041
understood the threat he posed,
1689
01:35:31,125 --> 01:35:34,834
but ultimately,
we failed because he became what he wanted to be,
1690
01:35:34,917 --> 01:35:38,875
potentially one of the worst
terrorists of all time.
1691
01:35:38,959 --> 01:35:42,542
To think that
the level of-- of hatred
1692
01:35:42,625 --> 01:35:43,709
that must have been generated
1693
01:35:43,792 --> 01:35:46,125
over that short number of years
1694
01:35:46,208 --> 01:35:48,125
was such that it would
have inspired him
1695
01:35:48,208 --> 01:35:50,208
to behave in a way that he did,
1696
01:35:50,291 --> 01:35:51,959
I find that incredible,
1697
01:35:52,041 --> 01:35:55,250
that's not the same
person that-- that I knew.
1698
01:35:55,333 --> 01:35:57,667
He was a guy who had it all.
1699
01:35:57,750 --> 01:36:00,500
British passport,
safety and security,
1700
01:36:00,583 --> 01:36:02,667
all the benefits
of British society.
1701
01:36:02,750 --> 01:36:08,250
He had a future, and he gave
it up for the Islamic State.
1702
01:36:08,333 --> 01:36:10,250
Ultimately
it's a battle of ideas,
1703
01:36:10,333 --> 01:36:13,375
and I am confident that good
ideas with the right support
1704
01:36:13,458 --> 01:36:16,583
will demonstrate that
bad ideas are nihilistic,
1705
01:36:16,667 --> 01:36:18,625
they destroy
themselves and others.
1706
01:36:18,709 --> 01:36:20,208
Somebody put it very strikingly.
1707
01:36:20,291 --> 01:36:24,375
They said the terrorist is
like the fly in the china shop.
1708
01:36:24,458 --> 01:36:26,834
Now he can't destroy
the china shop on his own.
1709
01:36:26,917 --> 01:36:28,792
The fly isn't nearly
strong enough,
1710
01:36:28,875 --> 01:36:31,500
but if he gets inside
the ear of a bull
1711
01:36:31,583 --> 01:36:35,500
then the bull if it panics
will destroy the china shop.
1712
01:36:35,583 --> 01:36:37,458
We're the bull,
they are the fly,
1713
01:36:37,542 --> 01:36:39,458
that's why it's
important not to panic.
1714
01:36:39,542 --> 01:36:44,417
We need to have the courage
to have a higher standard.
1715
01:36:44,500 --> 01:36:48,458
We must not debase ourselves
to the level of hatred
1716
01:36:48,542 --> 01:36:49,792
that they have.
1717
01:36:49,875 --> 01:36:51,875
And as part of Jim's legacy,
1718
01:36:51,959 --> 01:36:56,625
we want to inspire
young people to care
1719
01:36:56,709 --> 01:36:58,959
and do good things
in the world.
1720
01:36:59,041 --> 01:37:01,417
We need that goodness.
130732