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♪♪♪
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I never was interested
in dancing that referred
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fo a mood, or a
feeling, or in a sense,
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expressed the music.
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So that the dancing
does not refer.
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It is what it is.
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It's that whole
visual experience.
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♪♪♪
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Out. Stretch.
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Two, down and down.
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Up. Yeah. Step.
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Hold. Hold. Hold.
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♪♪♪
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Tonight, the world of dance
welcomes Merce Cunningham.
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He has asked us not to call him
an avant-garde choreographer,
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or a modern dance choreographer.
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So I'm going to ask him
what we may call him.
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Well, I'm a dancer.
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That says everything?
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Well, that's sufficient for me.
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♪♪♪
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Since my dancers and I
are a group of human beings,
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we are that on the stage,
24
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as we are in real life,
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people moving
around in various ways.
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But we don't
interpret something.
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We present something,
we do something,
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and then any kind
of interpretation is left
29
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,480
up to anybody looking
at it in the audience.
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00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,936
My idea about movement
is that any movement
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is possible for dancing.
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That ranges all the way
from nothing, of course,
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up to the most extended
kind of movement
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that one might think up.
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Your background
is in modern dance,
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is it, Merce Cunningham?
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Yes.
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00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:27,736
Now, did you evolve a
technique of your own?
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00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,176
Well, physically or technically,
40
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I was interested in extending
41
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,456
movement possibilities
as I saw them.
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00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,376
I thought that a ballet
technique for the legs
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was astonishing, and I thought
many things in the modern dance
44
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were remarkable for the torso.
45
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,936
And so I tried to find
ways to combine those
46
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to make a body which
was flexible and pliant
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00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,576
and allowed for as many
movement possibilities
48
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as I could see.
49
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:30,096
Dance exercises over
dancers an insidious attraction
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00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,576
that makes them work hours daily
51
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at perfecting an instrument
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which is really
deteriorating from birth.
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00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,616
To what end this
eternal daily struggle?
54
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Because inside of
all that is an ecstasy.
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00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,776
Brief perhaps, not
always released,
56
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:49,896
but when it is, like
a moment in balance
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00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,736
when all things great
and small coincide.
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This can happen at any moment,
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and when it does for a dancer,
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he can smile without knowing it.
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00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:03,616
There is no guarantee
of this, but it does exist.
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00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,840
We see it, and we know it.
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00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,176
Myself, I don't think of
discipline as, like, rules.
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I think of discipline as
being something private,
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which, in the case of a dancer,
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00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,136
he realizes that the discipline,
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00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,616
say, of going to
class, is part of his life.
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00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,296
He arrives at this
point within himself.
69
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,536
It's more like meditation,
devotion, I think,
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than anything else.
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♪♪♪
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I went to school in
Seattle, Washington,
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and Mr. Cage was there,
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00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,976
and he taught us a
composition class.
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00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,816
And it was so remarkable,
I never forgot this.
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00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,376
The next year, I
went to New York,
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and Mr. Cage joined eventually.
78
00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:06,456
So he's been writing
music for me ever since.
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00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,640
♪♪♪
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People have, um,
often defended art
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on the grounds
that life was a mess,
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and that, therefore,
we needed art
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in order to escape from life.
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I would like to have an art
that was so, uh, bewildering,
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00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,536
complex, and, uh, illogical
that we would return
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00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:37,216
to everyday life with,
uh, great pleasure.
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♪♪♪
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There is no such thing
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as silence.
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I have nothing to say,
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and I am saying it.
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And that is poetry
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as I need it.
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00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,616
First time I met
Merce Cunningham,
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he was touring the
States with John Cage.
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I'd never seen
anyone move like that,
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00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,616
from such a quiet center,
98
00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:01,440
with such animal authority
and human passion.
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00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,456
Merce Cunningham's
doctor used to be Dr. Lotman.
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00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,280
Dr. Lotman's the
one who prescribed
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00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,136
Merce's vitamin pills
and breakfast powders.
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00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,696
He told Merce to sit when
he didn't have to stand,
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00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,416
to lie down when
he didn't have to sit,
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00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,320
and to sleep whenever
he could sleep.
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00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,856
Possessed of an
active disposition,
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00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,816
Cunningham keeps busy
even when he's sitting.
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00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,376
With pen or pencil
he makes calendars,
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00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,296
circling the days
involving performances
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00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,297
or other engagements.
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00:13:32,321 --> 00:13:35,096
One calendar finished,
he starts another.
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00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,576
For years, sitting at
the breakfast table,
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00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,696
he taught himself Russian.
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00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,656
This enabled him to speak
in their language to members
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of the Bolshoi Ballet
before performing
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with his company for them.
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Having learned
to knit, he knitted
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the many-colored costume
he wears in "Lavish Escapade."
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00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,936
I simply decided years
ago that I would make
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00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:11,937
a dance free of the music.
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00:14:11,961 --> 00:14:14,216
And then we would put the
sound and the dance together.
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00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,336
Then, actually, you have
never heard his music,
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and has he seen your dance?
- No.
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00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,816
And the night of
the performance,
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00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:22,817
you will combine the two?
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00:14:22,841 --> 00:14:25,840
With any luck.
126
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,376
What, then, reactions
have you had to that?
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00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,256
Well, all the way from
absolute stupefaction
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00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,216
on the part of an
audience to, uh...
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00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,160
to people liking it very much.
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♪♪♪
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00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:21,096
When I began to
work with dancers
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who were trained
in other techniques,
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it didn't function for me.
134
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,176
So I decided that
maybe if I could teach...
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00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,776
♪♪♪
136
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,536
I must say the
first class I gave,
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00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,856
There was one
person who showed up,
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00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,816
a wonderful Marianne
Preger-Simon,
139
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,256
who said, "Well, will
you give the class?"
140
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,280
And I said yes. So I began.
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00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,136
I've always felt,
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during the time when
I worked with him,
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although he was giving out
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all of the activity that we did,
145
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:03,000
there was a great space
for you to do it yourself.
146
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,936
I think that Merce
was interested
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in what could be considered
our flaws as dancers.
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00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,536
And he hesitated to correct us
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00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,376
unless he just got
irritated by what he saw.
150
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,696
I think he was much
more of an artist
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00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:19,617
rather than a teacher
152
00:19:19,641 --> 00:19:21,736
who was going to try
to get us to do things
153
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,480
up to some perfect
and ideal standard.
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- I - found I was doing things
155
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,416
that I never dreamed
were possible.
156
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And the world was
opening up in a whole way
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that I hadn't understood.
158
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,136
The thing that's so hard
about working with Merce
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00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:43,056
is that he demands that
you are first of all yourself
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as a human being,
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and from that, a dancer.
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And you move on it?
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Yes. There again,
you can walk up or not.
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00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,576
I myself never liked
that competitive thing
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that so much of dancing
seemed to me to have,
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00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,776
so I never tried to do
that in my own situation.
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I went on the assumption
that each dancer was a person
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who had certain abilities.
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00:20:16,081 --> 00:20:18,136
I would attempt to
let each of the dancers
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00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,936
find out for himself
how he danced,
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what kind of a person
he was in that situation.
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It's not politics,
it was dancing,
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but that's as reasonable
a place to do that
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as any other situation.
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One, two, three, four,
five, six, seven, eight.
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In the early '50s,
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that point that my company,
So to speak, began.
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I didn't form it. It just began.
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00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,896
We just sort of got together
and tried to keep together.
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That's all there is to it.
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Suddenly, there's a
company of three people,
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or eight people, or 60 people,
183
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,616
I don't think it matters,
it's only in proportion.
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00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,816
Then you have to
consider all of those people
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in all the ways. The
fact that they are people,
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00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,936
they must somehow get
from day to day, you know,
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00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,216
and have some place to sleep,
something to eat, all of that.
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And all of that has to be
taken into consideration,
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as well as the fact
that you are now
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00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,816
not only responsible for
making a dance for yourself,
191
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,216
but for these other dancers too.
192
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,896
And that implies something
about clothing, heh,
193
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:38,857
covering them up some way,
194
00:22:38,881 --> 00:22:41,776
something about music,
however you think of that,
195
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,496
and all that gets more...
196
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,936
involves more funds,
one way or another.
197
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,896
But you do it, don't you?
198
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,336
The way you function?
199
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,736
Yes. You find a way
to function or you quit.
200
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,120
Yes, of course.
201
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,656
What do you do during rehearsal?
202
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,336
- How does this all happen?
- We rehearse,
203
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:07,176
and then I will keep
track via stopwatch
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00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,880
of a given section.
205
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,656
One of the pieces that we
used to do was "Suite for Five,"
206
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,376
and we could go several months
without rehearsing that dance,
207
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,136
and then do it and we
would come out within,
208
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,560
oh, at the most, 10
seconds difference.
209
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,216
Merce's way of working
with a stopwatch,
210
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,936
which so shocked the
modern dance world,
211
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,056
led to the company's
reputation of being cold, inhuman,
212
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,480
impassive,
expressionless automatons.
213
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:16,256
It seemed to me that,
in the society around us,
214
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,296
there were so many scientific
possibilities coming up
215
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,536
that one did not have to think
216
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,016
in terms of one thing
following another,
217
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:24,296
but, say, in a field.
218
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,576
And I began to make dances
219
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,736
with those
possibilities in mind.
220
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,456
So to speak,
compositional method
221
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,040
was by using chance,
or random means.
222
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,016
If I don't like what comes up
with the chance procedures,
223
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:54,897
do I then throw it away?
224
00:24:54,921 --> 00:24:56,936
In other words,
do I let my taste
225
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:57,937
enter this thing?
226
00:24:57,961 --> 00:25:00,256
And I, uh, don't.
227
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,000
I try it out.
228
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,056
Our audiences were artists.
229
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,656
The great American painters,
230
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,736
they were just
becoming well-known.
231
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,280
They were still poor.
232
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,496
Well, the people who really
seemed to accept my work
233
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,096
were dancers and musicians,
234
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:48,256
while I was considered a
clown by nearly everyone else.
235
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,256
And, uh, I found
a lot more rapport
236
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,896
with, uh, their ideas
237
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,336
about what, uh, art was
238
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:02,480
than I did with
a lot of painters.
239
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,936
We became friends immediately.
240
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,056
We understood, without speaking,
241
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,896
how the other one felt.
242
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,256
Almost a sense of identity.
243
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:15,816
♪♪♪
244
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,296
Bob Rauschenberg
described it once,
245
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,256
he said we have only
two things in common,
246
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,416
our ideas and our
poverty. Ha-ha-ha.
247
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,216
I thought that was a
marvelous description.
248
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,480
And it brought us together.
249
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,736
Merce is not the easiest
person to work with
250
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,016
in the first place.
He hates sets.
251
00:28:27,761 --> 00:28:29,056
He hates costumes.
252
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,216
So I mean, you really
have to work around
253
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,880
without his even noticing.
254
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,176
I said, "Bob, I want to
wear a chair on my back"
255
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,016
in one of the dances.
He looked at me,
256
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,736
and then a few
minutes later he said:
257
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,136
"If you have a chair,
can I have a door?"
258
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,840
And I said,
"Certainly. Why not?"
259
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,016
One of the most amazing
things about our collaboration
260
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,096
was sort of a
carte-blanche trust,
261
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,216
where nobody is
really responsible,
262
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,096
but as a group of people,
are not irresponsible.
263
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,256
And I think that creates a
kind of a wonderful feeling
264
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,800
about the
possibilities of society.
265
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,256
I don't know what will happen
266
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,536
until it's put, let's say,
in the first performance.
267
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,136
I prefer to risk, so to
speak, to chance that,
268
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,616
that this combination of things,
269
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,536
some of which I
don't know about,
270
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,376
may produce something else.
271
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,536
I used to be so jealous of John
272
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,336
because John couldn't
do anything wrong,
273
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,856
but making costumes and sets...
274
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,136
I was always in the
furniture business,
275
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,936
and you can trip overeither
the set or the costumes.
276
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,976
But you can't trip on a note.
277
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,816
Well, in "Summerspace,"
278
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,696
all I said was that the
dance didn't have any center.
279
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,096
- I - knew what you meant.
280
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,896
There was gonna be just
as much dancing in the wings.
281
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,296
So I planned a kind
of a camouflage.
282
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,576
So if anybody hesitated,
283
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,400
they were lost in
the background.
284
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,976
We worked on
"Summerspace" today.
285
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,776
In Summerspace,
286
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,016
the principal momentum
was the concern
287
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,216
for steps that carry
one through space.
288
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:40,296
Like the passage of birds
289
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,896
stopping for moments
on the ground,
290
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:43,737
and then going on,
291
00:33:43,761 --> 00:33:46,216
or automobiles
throbbing along turnpikes
292
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,136
and under and
over clover leaves.
293
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,336
The dance came out to have
a great deal of turning in it,
294
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,016
which was upsetting
to the dancers.
295
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,856
"I can't turn."
296
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,736
"How do you turn?"
297
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,320
The only way
to do it is to do it.
298
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,656
I continued to
work out the dance
299
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:29,736
every day after teaching,
300
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,056
with all of us growing
wearier as the weeks went on.
301
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,736
And we presented it
on a Sunday matinee,
302
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:38,816
in the spot costumes
303
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,176
and against the
pointillist backdrop
304
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,496
by Robert Rauschenberg,
305
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,640
and with the graph
music by Morton Feldman.
306
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,880
The audience was puzzled.
307
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,360
♪♪♪
308
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,856
When we started, we didn't
want to simply stay in New York
309
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,616
and give one program
maybe in a small theater,
310
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,816
and then hope for
the rest of the year
311
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,296
to pay it off, and so on.
312
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,216
So we began to drive.
313
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:04,896
The Cunningham
Company used to make
314
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,936
transcontinental tours
315
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,480
in a Volkswagen Microbus.
316
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:19,000
Once, when we drove
up to a gas station in Ohio,
317
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,256
and the dancers,
as usual, all piled out
318
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,560
to go to the toilets and
exercise around the pumps.
319
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:30,296
The station attendant asked me
320
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,280
whether we were a
group of comedians.
321
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:46,200
I said, "No. We're
from New York."
322
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:53,856
The real collaboration
323
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,016
was all getting into
that Volkswagen bus.
324
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,616
I had to sit next to the driver
when we played Scrabble.
325
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,216
Until Carolyn Brown's husband
said that she would have
326
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,616
to leave the company if we
didn't stop playing Scrabble
327
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,056
while we drove
looking for mushrooms.
328
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,176
It was fun too.
329
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,496
It was horrible too.
330
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,840
But that's what we
could do, so we did it.
331
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:16,377
John...
332
00:40:16,401 --> 00:40:18,016
It's been eaten up by animals.
333
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,896
Hypholomaornaematoloma,
and they are changing the name.
334
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,176
There are nine of you
chugging along from one place
335
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,576
to another, and, uh,
they were very tribal.
336
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,456
And John was incredibly
generous all the time.
337
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,856
He organized these
lovely picnics and...
338
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,616
In those days, we had our
food and lodgings paid for
339
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:43,360
and got 25 dollars a
performance, and that was it.
340
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,056
On top of which they said
the music was impossible.
341
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,136
And there was a lady who
wrote to say that she had come
342
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,936
to New York from a distance,
and that in order to do that
343
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,376
she had had to
employ a babysitter.
344
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,096
And they printed
this in the paper.
345
00:40:59,120 --> 00:40:59,937
The critic printed it.
346
00:40:59,961 --> 00:41:02,376
And that when she got there,
347
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,336
what she saw and what she heard
348
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,376
was so bad, you see,
349
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,416
that she had, so to speak,
350
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,416
been cheated out
of all this money...
351
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,896
The ticket, the train
ticket, and the babysitter.
352
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,256
And then the critic
added that we had no right
353
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,056
to treat people in
this cruel fashion.
354
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,200
♪♪♪
355
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:29,576
When you and Cage
were first touring together
356
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,536
during those early years,
did you have enough belief
357
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,016
in what you were doing
to not be discouraged
358
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,616
by the negative reactions?
359
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,216
The only thing for me is that
360
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:44,840
I really am deeply
fond of dancing.
361
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,816
So no matter how
dire the situation was,
362
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,296
how desperate, I
would wake up one day
363
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,056
and start to work
and suddenly realize
364
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,896
that it was just as interesting
as it always had been,
365
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,800
regardless of the circumstances.
366
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,496
But we also, as we toured,
367
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,936
we began to have
friends... Not many.
368
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,936
But every place there
would be a few people
369
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,680
who would be very interested
in what we had done.
370
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,480
♪♪♪
371
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,896
What's gratifying
to a dancer, really,
372
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,656
is performing, more than...
More than anything else.
373
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,536
Rehearsal has a certain
class, has a certain kind
374
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,776
of gratification,
but not, you know,
375
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,056
not as much as performing,
and we do it so little.
376
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,016
And then when it's
over, what is there?
377
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,536
You know, you go
back to your solitary flat,
378
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,416
and your horrible job,
379
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:09,896
and there's nothing.
380
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,496
I never thought
that's what it's about.
381
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,320
I think the real thing is
the fact that you continue,
382
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,256
that you keep on doing things,
383
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,456
because it isn't
about the money,
384
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,616
or not having money, or...
385
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,520
anything like that, it's
about making something.
386
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,496
How do you make a movement
alive, technique or not?
387
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,576
How do you keep in the
dancing, however long studied,
388
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,816
practiced, and repeated,
that spontaneous act
389
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,080
the stance of a
cat can give you?
390
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,496
It is for me a question of faith
391
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:52,856
and a continuous belief
392
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,360
in the surprise of the instant.
393
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,816
Put aside fatigue, aches,
394
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,256
injuries to the body
and the psyche.
395
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,536
Let the shape and the time
of a single or multiple action
396
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,640
take its weight and measure.
397
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,200
It will be expressive.
398
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,736
My first recollection
of "Crises"
399
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,776
was Merce was making for himself
400
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,336
all these wonderful solos.
401
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:40,456
I mean, they were mad
402
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,096
and lots of dramatic
stuff in them,
403
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:44,256
and we never got to do that.
404
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,216
And Viola and I said,
“In the next piece
405
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:49,936
we want to be witches."
And that's what he made.
406
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,120
♪♪♪
407
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,176
People take Merce at his word.
408
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,576
They absolutely believe
him that it's only steps
409
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,760
that he's putting on the
stage, but it isn't true.
410
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,216
It's not a dance of two people.
411
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:41,376
I mean, the women
do certain things,
412
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,296
but all of the, uh, real action
413
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,296
is initiated by him.
414
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,056
I'm picked up and carried,
415
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,096
and it's also very
little face to face.
416
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:51,376
That's very much true, I think,
417
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,096
in almost all of
the duet things.
418
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,960
♪♪♪
419
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,576
/f I were to go to
him and say, "Merce",
420
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,976
what does this... This exotic
fall that Gus and I do mean?
421
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,536
"What's it supposed
to mean?" You know?
422
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,696
He'd snort and turn his back.
423
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:26,296
He'd take it away from us.
424
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,056
He'd say, don't do it.
425
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,216
Which side are
you going to go to?
426
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:33,696
All right, hold on,
hold on. Hold on.
427
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:37,656
Just down,
that's it. That's all.
428
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,576
Is that all right?
429
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:45,360
Now turn, Gus. That's
right, so that way, Gus.
430
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,680
That's fine.
431
00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:59,896
Now, Sandra, let go.
Take your arms away.
432
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,016
That's right. Now, excuse me...
433
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:02,937
Now curve your trunk.
434
00:49:02,961 --> 00:49:05,736
Give me this arm.
Bring it right up.
435
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,320
That's it.
436
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,816
Unfortunately, it doesn't come
437
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,216
ever with any
clear understanding
438
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:17,600
as to why you are or are not
being included, except that...
439
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:20,536
Merce is like a painter,
440
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,336
and we're all like
different colors.
441
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,296
And he wants some colors,
and other times, he doesn't.
442
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,280
♪♪♪
443
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,776
I think there's a
great sense of love
444
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,816
within the company, one
for the other, and, uh...
445
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:05,296
Merce isn't able to
express that... openly,
446
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,896
but after a while you sense it.
447
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,576
He never expresses it openly?
448
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,560
Not really... no.
449
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:44,720
♪♪♪
450
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,800
San Francisco.
451
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,376
4 From dusk till dawn ♪
452
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:15,000
♪ I've got another
world Of delusion... T
453
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,216
In "Winterbranch," the
general idea was darkness.
454
00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:04,176
- It was all about violence.
- I'm interested
455
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,096
to hear you say it
was about violence
456
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:07,376
because I think, on the whole,
457
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,496
you don't like these
interpretations.
458
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:10,896
You see, this piece
459
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:12,616
by the combination
of the elements
460
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,496
produces this violent display,
461
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,896
but the kind of
violence it produces
462
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,016
is special to each spectator.
463
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:23,456
One was race riots, and
one was atomic bomb,
464
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,416
and one was concentration camps,
465
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,440
and on and on.
466
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:30,216
The most violent reaction we
received from it was New York.
467
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:33,096
It was before there was
a great deal of violence
468
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:34,496
in the United States.
469
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,176
And now we do it and
people no longer take it
470
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:38,496
as being violent
because they know
471
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,376
there might be violence
when they go out in the street
472
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,296
or even in the
seat next to them.
473
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,800
♪♪♪
474
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:01,416
Now, this world tour
475
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,336
that you just came
back from, tell us about it.
476
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:09,256
Well, we started in Strasbourg
and we ended in Tokyo.
477
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,256
And in between
was Paris and Venice
478
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,896
and Vienna and
cities in Germany,
479
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,536
and a month in
London and Stockholm.
480
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:18,417
Then we went to Poland,
481
00:56:18,441 --> 00:56:20,456
and then we went
to Czechoslovakia.
482
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,776
We were the first Western
dancers to come there.
483
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:29,216
And we played in a
hall with 3000 people.
484
00:56:29,240 --> 00:56:31,720
♪♪♪
485
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,616
But you arouse such
controversy that all audiences
486
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,216
don't greet you the same
way, do they, Merce?
487
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,296
How do you say that
what was the audience like?
488
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,376
Everybody in the
audience is different.
489
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,096
They may all dislike it.
490
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,456
Dislike it for
different reasons.
491
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,776
No more music!
492
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,296
Stop music! MAN:
I've got in my mind
493
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,456
a kind of point of
view of the world,
494
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,536
and I see a kind
of arrow advancing,
495
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:06,496
and I see Rembrandt's
doing something,
496
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:07,816
Michelangelo's doing something,
497
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:09,176
and then John
Cage did something.
498
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,496
I want to go further,
of course. It's natural.
499
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,776
This is Renaissance
point of view,
500
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:14,697
a European point of view,
501
00:59:14,721 --> 00:59:16,736
that everything's
going in a single line.
502
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:18,736
And we're not
going in a single line.
503
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:20,096
- We're in a field.
- Yeah...
504
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:24,616
And you can also
enter into the field.
505
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,120
♪♪♪
506
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,136
We were held over in London.
507
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,176
- Yes.
- Somehow,
508
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,896
Merce screwed up,
and they liked us.
509
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,856
Almost ruined our reputation!
510
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,240
♪♪♪
511
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:37,376
Mr. Sarabhai from
Ahmadabad in India,
512
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:44,440
after seeing a performance
by the Cunningham Company,
513
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:46,017
asked Merce
514
01:00:46,041 --> 01:00:52,880
whether his dancing was
popular in the United States.
515
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:01,336
Merce explained that
programs were given principally
516
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,720
in universities and colleges.
517
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,456
Mr. Sarabhai said,
"That isn't what I mean."
518
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,400
Do people do it after dinner?”
519
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:44,696
Oh, God.
520
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:46,576
Six months with the same group
521
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:47,856
of 20 people is hard.
522
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,976
Anyway, when Bob
left, this was a time
523
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,416
when communication
was particularly poor
524
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:54,417
between dancers and Merce.
525
01:03:54,441 --> 01:03:56,696
We were kind of scared
of what was going on,
526
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:58,136
because Merce
was very distressed
527
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,616
and had the responsibility
of the whole thing,
528
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:04,760
and was dancing
gorgeously the whole time.
529
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,080
♪♪♪
530
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,080
♪♪♪
531
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:20,616
Oh, it's beautiful.
It really is.
532
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:22,976
Oh! It's infinite
533
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,496
because it goes in with the sky.
534
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:28,016
Oh, it is fantastic.
535
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,136
One of the strengths
of this great company
536
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:33,056
is its ability to draw to itself
537
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,816
as full-time collaborators
top visual and musical artists,
538
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:41,416
like Cage, Warhol,
Rauschenberg and Jasper Johns.
539
01:08:41,440 --> 01:08:45,976
Mr. Johns cuts the finishing
touches into the costumes,
540
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,296
and Andy Warhol's silver pillows
541
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:52,976
wander the stage
cloud-like, looking for a home.
542
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,536
Do you consider your
work avant-garde?
543
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,896
Well, I never use the
word about myself.
544
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:01,776
But you would then say
that yours is new dance.
545
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:02,697
How would you describe it?
546
01:09:02,721 --> 01:09:05,736
Well, no, I don't
describe it. I do it.
547
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,240
♪♪♪
548
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:17,160
♪♪♪
549
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:11,416
Do it with me. Step
right, left, right, left.
550
01:12:11,440 --> 01:12:16,816
Bah, bah. Leg,
back, turn up, down.
551
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:20,936
One, four, seven, eight.
552
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,496
Three, four, six.
553
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:30,120
Sweetie, anything I'm
doing is probably wrong.
554
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,200
No, it's nothing.
555
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:39,376
And one, two,
three, one, two, three,
556
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:41,656
four, five, six,
seven, eight, nine,
557
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:44,536
10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
558
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:46,536
17, 18, 19, 22.
559
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,256
Five, six, seven, eight, nine,
560
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:51,056
10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
561
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,096
17, 18, 19, 23.
562
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:54,937
Six, seven, eight, nine,
563
01:12:54,961 --> 01:12:58,056
10, 11, 12, 1314, 15, 16, 17,
564
01:12:58,080 --> 01:12:59,816
18, 19, 24.
565
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:01,336
Five, six, seven, eight, nine,
566
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:06,456
10, 11, 12, 13, 14,
15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 25.
567
01:13:06,480 --> 01:13:08,536
Five, six, seven, eight, nine,
568
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:10,216
10, 11, 12, 13, 14,
569
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:13,136
15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 26.
570
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,016
Five, six, seven, eight, nine,
571
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:16,896
10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
572
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:20,680
17, 18, 19, 20, stop. All right?
573
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,656
Sometimes I think the
urge to communicate
574
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,616
more directly with you is
fairly strong in the dancers,
575
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:31,176
- but they hold it back.
- Yes.
576
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:34,296
Which puts them into
some kind of a conflict.
577
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:36,016
They have to deal
with the situation,
578
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:40,456
and they have to figure
so much out for themselves.
579
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:42,576
Excuse me. Um.
580
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:45,536
I think that's what
I gamble on. Heh.
581
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:47,936
What you gamble on? Yes, yes.
582
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:49,496
That is, it's toward the good
583
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,576
rather than the
bad, heh-heh-heh.
584
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:56,496
I know that doesn't always work.
585
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:57,696
Uh...
586
01:13:57,720 --> 01:13:59,736
But I rather think it works
587
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:01,936
more times than it doesn't.
588
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,336
That is, by putting
somebody in a situation
589
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:07,016
where they have to make
a decision about something,
590
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:09,376
is what it amounts
to, rather than
591
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:12,696
being dependent upon a kind of
592
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:14,096
now you do this,
then you do this,
593
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,736
and then you do this,
and then you do this.
594
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:20,320
Excuse me, I must go upstairs.
595
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:35,520
Aware of the many activities
596
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:43,200
connected with The Cunningham
Dance Foundation Incorporated,
597
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:50,816
Jim Klosty asked Merce
598
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:53,656
whether he felt
like a patriarch.
599
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,096
Two thousand dollars
from the contractor.
600
01:14:56,120 --> 01:15:00,056
Our $5869 and 90 cents,
601
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:01,256
giving us thus a net
602
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:06,216
of $23,355 and 10
cents from the benefit.
603
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,456
Merce said, "No",
604
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:13,336
I feel like a bystander
who's been trapped.”
605
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,840
♪♪♪
606
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:42,696
- I - never believed that idea
607
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:44,776
that dancing was the
greatest of the arts.
608
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:47,176
There are too
many low things in it.
609
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:48,696
Too many feet to take care of,
610
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:51,776
a great deal of
sweat and plain labor.
611
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:53,256
♪♪♪
612
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:57,776
But when it clicks,
there's the rub.
613
01:15:57,800 --> 01:15:59,216
It becomes memorable,
614
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:02,496
and one can be
seduced all over again.
615
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,000
♪♪♪
616
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:32,600
♪♪♪
617
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:20,296
The age difference between
Merce and his company
618
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,496
was not that great in
the '50s, as it is now.
619
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,176
So that the family
aspect of the early years
620
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:28,057
is missing, I think.
621
01:17:28,081 --> 01:17:32,056
And they don't share
their lives in the same way.
622
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:36,216
They don't eat together,
um, play together.
623
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:44,736
There was a human being there,
a more total person on stage,
624
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,296
and we were different
from one another,
625
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:49,880
and he saw those differences.
626
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:51,776
And I think, today
he's interested
627
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,296
in orchestrating a large
company of dancers.
628
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:57,336
And in most of the new pieces,
629
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:01,360
they function as a
group, as a company.
630
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:07,440
♪♪♪
631
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:23,336
Merce has been
working so long now,
632
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:27,656
that some very fine dancers
who used to dance with him,
633
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:30,576
Carolyn Brown, for
instance, and Viola Farber,
634
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:35,800
and more recently,
Valda Setterfield, have left.
635
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,416
And at the present
moment, the company
636
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:46,376
is, uh, almost entirely new,
637
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:47,896
and yet it's magnificent.
638
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:52,776
That's because you have
to allow for everybody.
639
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:55,736
Every single person
has a possibility.
640
01:21:55,760 --> 01:22:00,776
So what I do is not to imitate
Carolyn, but to try some way
641
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,856
to find something that
simply allows each person
642
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:04,737
to be what they are,
643
01:22:04,761 --> 01:22:06,776
and if I'm lucky,
it will happen.
644
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:08,376
But I trust that.
645
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:10,880
♪♪♪
646
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:19,376
- I - would just like to say
647
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:24,776
that I'm very grateful for
the dancers in my company,
648
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,536
and the way they
have put up with me...
649
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:32,296
...and all the things that
we have done together.
650
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:37,096
I think they have
responded marvelously.
651
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:39,600
♪♪♪
48981
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