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1
00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:06,233
- Your Honor, it is over now.
2
00:00:08,433 --> 00:00:10,767
[eerie music]
3
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,000
I know society will never
be able to forgive me.
4
00:00:14,033 --> 00:00:17,300
♪ ♪
5
00:00:17,300 --> 00:00:19,433
I know the families
of the victims
6
00:00:19,433 --> 00:00:20,700
will never be able
to forgive me
7
00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:22,266
for what I have done.
8
00:00:22,300 --> 00:00:24,500
- Jeffrey, I hate you,
motherf---er!
9
00:00:24,533 --> 00:00:26,467
I hate you!
10
00:00:29,066 --> 00:00:31,367
- For sexual pleasure,
he took the life
11
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,033
of a human being.
12
00:00:33,033 --> 00:00:34,133
- He told us
how he cooked them,
13
00:00:34,166 --> 00:00:36,133
what they tasted like.
14
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,000
- Never would I have believed
15
00:00:40,033 --> 00:00:41,333
that he was a killer, ever.
16
00:00:41,367 --> 00:00:43,000
- Well, you're looking good.
17
00:00:43,033 --> 00:00:44,734
- I have to start eating
at home more.
18
00:00:44,767 --> 00:00:47,066
♪ ♪
19
00:00:47,066 --> 00:00:49,200
- We're investigating
a homicide.
20
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,333
- What would lead
a human being
21
00:00:50,333 --> 00:00:53,266
to take 17 lives?
22
00:00:53,300 --> 00:00:57,166
- He was more normal
than we want to think he was.
23
00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,333
- No one had a clue
as to what was happening
24
00:01:01,333 --> 00:01:03,300
for over a decade.
25
00:01:06,333 --> 00:01:08,433
- When you killed these men,
26
00:01:08,467 --> 00:01:11,266
afterwards, were you repulsed?
27
00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:13,000
Were you upset?
28
00:01:13,033 --> 00:01:14,033
- No, it--
29
00:01:14,066 --> 00:01:16,467
At the time, it was--
30
00:01:16,467 --> 00:01:18,533
it was almost addictive.
31
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,367
- I don't consider myself
a victim.
32
00:01:22,367 --> 00:01:24,100
I consider myself a survivor.
33
00:01:24,133 --> 00:01:26,367
- As a 17-year-old kid,
34
00:01:26,367 --> 00:01:29,100
would you really get that out
in your unit
35
00:01:29,100 --> 00:01:31,633
that Jeff Dahmer raped you?
36
00:01:35,367 --> 00:01:37,166
- I know Jeffrey
37
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,333
who used to stay
across the hall from me.
38
00:01:39,367 --> 00:01:41,600
That Dahmer guy
is somebody else.
39
00:01:41,633 --> 00:01:44,166
- You must understand
we protect our family.
40
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:45,600
He was our son.
41
00:01:50,100 --> 00:01:52,767
- He fooled so many people
42
00:01:52,767 --> 00:01:55,367
as to his real feelings.
43
00:01:58,100 --> 00:02:01,100
- I knew I was sick or evil
or both.
44
00:02:18,100 --> 00:02:20,533
[siren wailing]
45
00:02:20,567 --> 00:02:23,467
- For years,
a serial killer
46
00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:26,333
had been preying
on the city of Milwaukee.
47
00:02:26,367 --> 00:02:30,266
Finally, in the summer of 1991,
it all comes to an end
48
00:02:30,266 --> 00:02:32,400
when a frightened man
in handcuffs
49
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,266
approaches police.
50
00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:37,600
He leads them to the home
of Jeffrey Dahmer.
51
00:02:37,633 --> 00:02:40,133
- We're investigating
a homicide which occurred.
52
00:02:40,166 --> 00:02:42,266
- Obviously that there is--
has been a number
53
00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:44,367
of human specimens found.
54
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,033
- The victim count?
17.
55
00:02:47,066 --> 00:02:49,033
- Police were lead there
by a man who told them
56
00:02:49,066 --> 00:02:51,133
he had been attacked
with a butcher knife.
57
00:02:51,166 --> 00:02:54,033
- The details
are shocking.
58
00:02:54,066 --> 00:02:55,667
- Sources close
to the case say
59
00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:58,300
the motive includes elements
of sexual violence
60
00:02:58,333 --> 00:03:00,166
and cannibalism.
61
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:01,567
- Jeffrey Dahmer
62
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,033
is a quiet
chocolate factory worker
63
00:03:04,066 --> 00:03:07,166
who confesses
to the most gruesome crimes.
64
00:03:07,166 --> 00:03:11,166
- Jeff Dahmer is apologetically
admitting responsibility.
65
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,400
- Do you know
what started it?
66
00:03:13,433 --> 00:03:15,533
Was there any kind of incident
that you can remember?
67
00:03:15,567 --> 00:03:18,100
- To this day, I don't know
what started it.
68
00:03:18,133 --> 00:03:22,033
And the person to blame is
sitting right across from you.
69
00:03:22,033 --> 00:03:23,567
That's the only person--
70
00:03:23,567 --> 00:03:27,667
not parents, not society,
not pornography.
71
00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:29,600
I mean, those are just excuses.
72
00:03:29,633 --> 00:03:32,200
- I'm Nancy Glass.
73
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,200
In 1991, I'm sitting
in a newsroom,
74
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,700
and a story comes in
75
00:03:35,734 --> 00:03:38,400
that there's been
a serial killer in Milwaukee.
76
00:03:38,433 --> 00:03:40,667
He killed people,
he dismembered them,
77
00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:44,166
and, worse, he was a cannibal.
78
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:45,467
Well, at first,
you just don't believe this.
79
00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:47,533
I mean, you got to look
at it twice.
80
00:03:47,567 --> 00:03:50,066
And then, as a journalist,
you say,
81
00:03:50,066 --> 00:03:52,333
"I really want to get
this story."
82
00:03:52,367 --> 00:03:55,166
So I started communicating
with Jeffrey Dahmer's parents
83
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,400
and built a relationship
with them.
84
00:03:57,433 --> 00:04:00,567
Eventually, Jeffrey and I
started writing back and forth.
85
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,533
And then,
a year and a half later,
86
00:04:03,567 --> 00:04:06,066
I found myself
sitting opposite him
87
00:04:06,066 --> 00:04:09,567
at the Columbia Correctional
Institute in Wisconsin.
88
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,633
You know, people always wonder,
was I afraid of him?
89
00:04:12,667 --> 00:04:15,200
Well, I wasn't,
because by the time
90
00:04:15,233 --> 00:04:18,600
I was sitting opposite him,
his killing spree was over.
91
00:04:18,633 --> 00:04:22,200
In fact, he appeared to be
completely normal.
92
00:04:22,233 --> 00:04:26,166
That was actually
what was so unsettling.
93
00:04:28,333 --> 00:04:29,734
Were you molested?
94
00:04:29,767 --> 00:04:31,633
- Never.
Never.
95
00:04:31,633 --> 00:04:34,467
- In your childhood,
you have any memories
96
00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:37,200
of anything
that you would associate
97
00:04:37,233 --> 00:04:38,367
with what you became?
98
00:04:38,367 --> 00:04:40,233
- No, that's the strange thing.
99
00:04:40,233 --> 00:04:42,567
I can't pinpoint anything.
100
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,700
- So there was nothing
in your childhood--
101
00:04:44,734 --> 00:04:46,300
- No, no abuse--
102
00:04:46,333 --> 00:04:48,500
no physical abuse,
no verbal abuse.
103
00:04:48,533 --> 00:04:52,266
It was a normal childhood
in a good home.
104
00:04:52,300 --> 00:04:57,367
Something went awry
in my thought life.
105
00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,400
I don't know why.
106
00:05:02,533 --> 00:05:04,533
- There's no single history
107
00:05:04,533 --> 00:05:07,367
that causes someone to become
a serial killer.
108
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,367
Many of the individuals
who are serial killers,
109
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,233
not all of them but many,
110
00:05:11,266 --> 00:05:14,233
have had very traumatic
early life experiences.
111
00:05:14,266 --> 00:05:15,667
In Mr. Dahmer's case,
112
00:05:15,667 --> 00:05:17,633
none of that
seemed to be present.
113
00:05:20,533 --> 00:05:24,400
- Jeffrey's father, Lionel,
now in his 80s,
114
00:05:24,433 --> 00:05:27,633
wanted to talk to us
about the boy he knew.
115
00:05:27,667 --> 00:05:30,633
But he only agreed
to an on-camera interview
116
00:05:30,667 --> 00:05:33,233
if he could wear sunglasses.
117
00:05:33,266 --> 00:05:36,300
In his mind, they make him
less identifiable.
118
00:05:36,333 --> 00:05:38,567
- He loved the place
that we lived in,
119
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,000
and it was
a heavily wooded place.
120
00:05:43,033 --> 00:05:46,166
He enjoyed
121
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,266
his small group of friends.
122
00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:51,700
- He was raised
in a somewhat affluent family.
123
00:05:51,734 --> 00:05:54,700
His father had a doctoral
degree in chemistry.
124
00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:58,000
The family lived on
a 1 1/4 quiet, wooded acres
125
00:05:58,033 --> 00:05:59,400
with a pond.
126
00:05:59,433 --> 00:06:02,000
- While Jeffrey indicated
127
00:06:02,033 --> 00:06:03,533
nothing in his childhood
128
00:06:03,567 --> 00:06:06,300
could have fueled
his desire to kill,
129
00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:09,433
according to Lionel
and his wife, Shari,
130
00:06:09,433 --> 00:06:10,567
who'd been part
of Jeffrey's life
131
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,467
since he was 18,
132
00:06:12,467 --> 00:06:14,567
there was something
that affected him
133
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,266
even before he was born.
134
00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:20,333
His mother, Joyce, struggled
with mental illness
135
00:06:20,333 --> 00:06:24,200
and took 27 pills a day when
she was pregnant with Jeffrey,
136
00:06:24,233 --> 00:06:27,400
including antidepressants,
growth hormones,
137
00:06:27,433 --> 00:06:29,667
and progesterone.
138
00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:32,567
- Doctors met with us,
and they said
139
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,667
those medicines could have
affected the fetus.
140
00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:39,066
And when Jeff was born,
141
00:06:39,066 --> 00:06:42,300
the grandparents were not
allowed to hold the baby.
142
00:06:42,333 --> 00:06:44,300
Joyce didn't want anybody
touching the baby
143
00:06:44,333 --> 00:06:45,734
or breathing on it.
144
00:06:45,767 --> 00:06:47,667
She was afraid of germs.
145
00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:52,567
They virtually had no contact
with Jeff as a baby.
146
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,500
- In my conversations
with Lionel,
147
00:06:55,533 --> 00:06:57,300
he told me that in infancy,
148
00:06:57,333 --> 00:07:00,233
Joyce herself
rarely touched Jeffrey
149
00:07:00,266 --> 00:07:04,433
except to change his diapers
or hold him for a photo.
150
00:07:04,467 --> 00:07:09,300
- There was so much illness
with his mother at that time.
151
00:07:09,333 --> 00:07:11,633
She was involved
with gestalt therapy
152
00:07:11,667 --> 00:07:14,734
at a local
mental health center,
153
00:07:14,767 --> 00:07:17,467
wandering around in the dark,
touching people.
154
00:07:17,500 --> 00:07:20,233
Nothing--nothing helped.
155
00:07:20,266 --> 00:07:22,467
- In the midst of this,
156
00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:24,367
Lionel
and his first wife, Joyce,
157
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,300
have a second child.
158
00:07:27,333 --> 00:07:30,767
- Jeff noticed that when
his younger brother was born,
159
00:07:30,767 --> 00:07:34,500
Jeff no longer had
fairy tales from his mother,
160
00:07:34,533 --> 00:07:37,400
stories read at night,
and tucking him in.
161
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,000
Jeff felt somewhat left out.
162
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,400
- We were moving at the time,
163
00:07:41,433 --> 00:07:46,667
and he had to leave
his favorite kitten behind.
164
00:07:46,667 --> 00:07:51,333
And going to a new school
and being only six years old,
165
00:07:51,367 --> 00:07:55,066
he became
a little bit more shy,
166
00:07:55,100 --> 00:07:58,100
much like I was in my youth.
167
00:07:59,767 --> 00:08:03,734
- During his adolescence,
Dahmer develops a hobby
168
00:08:03,767 --> 00:08:06,767
that would raise eyebrows
in the years that followed.
169
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,600
Were you obsessed
with dead animals?
170
00:08:08,633 --> 00:08:10,467
Is that true?
171
00:08:10,500 --> 00:08:14,400
- I was interested
in taxidermy in high school
172
00:08:14,433 --> 00:08:17,700
and experimented
with preserving the bones
173
00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:20,367
of dogs and things like that.
174
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,633
And whether that had
anything to do
175
00:08:25,667 --> 00:08:29,300
with the escalation
of the crimes, I don't know.
176
00:08:29,333 --> 00:08:31,533
- He went into further detail
177
00:08:31,567 --> 00:08:35,367
in this interview
with a forensic psychologist.
178
00:08:57,567 --> 00:08:59,433
- There are numbers
of young people
179
00:08:59,467 --> 00:09:01,667
who might have those same kinds
of interests
180
00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:04,700
and don't end up being
serial killers.
181
00:09:04,734 --> 00:09:08,467
So in retrospect, had I spoken
with him as a teenager,
182
00:09:08,467 --> 00:09:10,166
I don't know
that either he or I
183
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,033
would have predicted
at that point
184
00:09:12,066 --> 00:09:13,700
that he was gonna end up
185
00:09:13,734 --> 00:09:16,600
being the serial killer
he turned out to be.
186
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,433
- Now, I lived
with this young man.
187
00:09:18,467 --> 00:09:20,133
He lived in our home.
188
00:09:20,166 --> 00:09:22,066
He had
his father's intelligence.
189
00:09:22,066 --> 00:09:23,734
And on the phone,
190
00:09:23,734 --> 00:09:27,066
you could not tell Jeff
or Lionel apart.
191
00:09:27,066 --> 00:09:32,066
Jeff was always very gentle,
very kind.
192
00:09:32,066 --> 00:09:36,133
- In high school,
friends begin to notice
193
00:09:36,166 --> 00:09:38,734
Jeffrey is becoming
a different person.
194
00:09:38,767 --> 00:09:43,066
- Jeff's behavior began
to be so strange
195
00:09:43,100 --> 00:09:49,467
that I felt very uncomfortable
being with him alone.
196
00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:53,367
He liked to act,
in his words, "crazy."
197
00:09:53,367 --> 00:09:55,467
He would just start
198
00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:56,600
shrieking,
199
00:09:56,633 --> 00:10:00,600
or he would twist himself up
200
00:10:00,633 --> 00:10:03,100
in a grotesque way
201
00:10:03,133 --> 00:10:05,433
and run with a limp,
202
00:10:05,467 --> 00:10:07,734
almost like Quasimodo.
203
00:10:07,767 --> 00:10:10,200
And I remember one time
asking him
204
00:10:10,233 --> 00:10:14,700
why he behaved this way,
and he said,
205
00:10:14,734 --> 00:10:18,767
"I just like
to shake people up."
206
00:10:24,133 --> 00:10:27,000
- I remember when we had
our senior pictures taken,
207
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,467
he got into
a lot of the group photos
208
00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:30,734
that he was not a member--
209
00:10:30,767 --> 00:10:32,633
the National Honor Society
group.
210
00:10:32,667 --> 00:10:34,633
Whoever was in charge
of that in those days,
211
00:10:34,667 --> 00:10:39,767
they blacked out his face,
and it's really creepy.
212
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,000
- I had a classmate who said,
213
00:10:44,033 --> 00:10:48,133
"Years ago, we thought
that photo was hilarious.
214
00:10:48,133 --> 00:10:52,233
And it's not so funny anymore."
215
00:10:52,266 --> 00:10:56,500
- His brazen behavior continues
in the classroom.
216
00:10:56,533 --> 00:10:58,100
- He was drinking beer.
217
00:10:58,133 --> 00:11:00,133
Sometimes he kept it
in his locker,
218
00:11:00,166 --> 00:11:02,767
and I guess he kept beer
in his car.
219
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,100
Did teachers do anything
about it?
220
00:11:05,133 --> 00:11:06,667
Did they know about it?
221
00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:08,567
I'm sure some teachers knew
about it.
222
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,000
- I remember distinctly
one morning
223
00:11:12,033 --> 00:11:16,166
sitting in class next to Jeff,
who had his cup of scotch.
224
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,633
And I said, "Jeff,
what is that?"
225
00:11:18,667 --> 00:11:21,700
He just tossed his head back
226
00:11:21,700 --> 00:11:24,233
as though it was no issue
at all,
227
00:11:24,266 --> 00:11:27,433
and he said,
"It's my medicine."
228
00:11:27,467 --> 00:11:31,667
There was a collective sense
of blinders going up,
229
00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:33,133
that people didn't notice
230
00:11:33,166 --> 00:11:35,667
because they didn't want
to notice.
231
00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:37,700
- According to Dahmer,
232
00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:42,166
alcohol was a way to drown
his growing dark desires.
233
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,266
- I started having
these obsessive thoughts
234
00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:48,266
when I was about 15 and 16,
235
00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:50,600
and they got worse and worse.
236
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,200
- What were
your fantasies about?
237
00:11:52,233 --> 00:11:54,600
- [sighs]
238
00:11:54,633 --> 00:11:58,066
They were sexual fantasies
of control, power,
239
00:11:58,066 --> 00:12:00,066
complete dominance.
240
00:12:00,066 --> 00:12:01,667
They became reality.
241
00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:04,033
- Was there pleasure
in that fantasy?
242
00:12:04,066 --> 00:12:07,200
- There was excitement,
243
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,200
fear, pleasure
all mixed together.
244
00:12:13,734 --> 00:12:19,133
- He found certain
male joggers attractive
245
00:12:19,166 --> 00:12:21,700
and sought opportunities
to watch them
246
00:12:21,734 --> 00:12:25,033
and fantasize about them
as they jogged past.
247
00:12:26,066 --> 00:12:28,200
There was one particular man
248
00:12:28,233 --> 00:12:33,166
that he would fantasize about
having sexual contact with,
249
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,734
but he had no concept
of how to make a relationship
250
00:12:36,767 --> 00:12:39,100
with this or any other man.
251
00:12:42,266 --> 00:12:44,100
- He took a bat,
252
00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:45,633
sawed it off
and fashioned it as a club,
253
00:12:45,633 --> 00:12:47,233
hid in the woods,
254
00:12:47,233 --> 00:12:48,700
anticipating that he would
assault this man.
255
00:12:48,734 --> 00:12:51,700
[dramatic music]
256
00:12:51,734 --> 00:12:54,200
- Teenage Jeffrey sits
nervously,
257
00:12:54,233 --> 00:12:57,066
waiting to attack.
258
00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:58,600
But the jogger
he has his eye on
259
00:12:58,633 --> 00:13:01,600
doesn't pass that day.
260
00:13:01,633 --> 00:13:04,734
♪ ♪
261
00:13:06,133 --> 00:13:08,567
His first target
has slipped away,
262
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,333
but his next
wouldn't be so lucky.
263
00:13:12,367 --> 00:13:15,633
Up next, the growing desire
to kill
264
00:13:15,667 --> 00:13:17,667
is only the beginning.
265
00:13:17,667 --> 00:13:22,200
- I had had fantasies
about picking up a hitchhiker
266
00:13:22,233 --> 00:13:25,734
and taking him back
to the house
267
00:13:25,767 --> 00:13:29,266
and having complete control
and dominance.
268
00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:35,433
In the spring of 1976,
269
00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:38,667
high school sophomore
Jeffrey Dahmer's
270
00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:41,367
first planned assault fails.
271
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,200
He's 15, a time
when most teenagers
272
00:13:44,233 --> 00:13:47,100
are worried about school
and making friends.
273
00:13:47,133 --> 00:13:51,633
And he's already on a path
toward his terrible crimes.
274
00:13:51,667 --> 00:13:54,033
- I had normal friendships
in high school,
275
00:13:54,033 --> 00:13:58,266
but after that, I started in
with the alcohol, drinking,
276
00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:00,567
a lot of solitary drinking,
277
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,400
and really never had any
close friendships after that,
278
00:14:04,433 --> 00:14:06,300
after high school.
279
00:14:06,333 --> 00:14:11,000
Just sort of lived
in my own thought life,
280
00:14:11,033 --> 00:14:12,367
fantasy world.
281
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,266
- As high school ends,
his parents divorce,
282
00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:20,300
and his mother takes off
with her younger son,
283
00:14:20,300 --> 00:14:23,033
leaving Jeffrey alone
in the house.
284
00:14:23,066 --> 00:14:24,700
- Jeff was left behind
285
00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:28,567
with no money
and spoiled milk in the fridge.
286
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,700
I came into the family
287
00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:34,667
at the tail end
of Lionel's divorce.
288
00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:36,734
They'd been separated
two years.
289
00:14:36,734 --> 00:14:39,333
Lionel was living
out of a motel.
290
00:14:39,333 --> 00:14:41,734
Jeff was detached
at that point.
291
00:14:41,734 --> 00:14:44,066
He felt somewhat abandoned.
292
00:14:44,066 --> 00:14:45,600
- The first time
anybody asked me
293
00:14:45,633 --> 00:14:49,033
about his parents,
I was struck by the fact
294
00:14:49,066 --> 00:14:53,166
that I could only answer,
"I never knew he had parents."
295
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:58,066
He just seemed like
he was kind of a satellite
296
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:00,033
floating alone.
297
00:15:00,066 --> 00:15:01,734
- He did not like
that feeling.
298
00:15:01,767 --> 00:15:04,333
He didn't like
his parents leaving him.
299
00:15:04,333 --> 00:15:06,033
And it's in that context
300
00:15:06,066 --> 00:15:08,333
that he committed
his first homicide.
301
00:15:08,367 --> 00:15:10,600
- You do sound, though,
like the kind of person
302
00:15:10,633 --> 00:15:12,300
who could have said
to himself,
303
00:15:12,333 --> 00:15:14,200
"This is wrong.
304
00:15:14,233 --> 00:15:15,734
I must stop."
305
00:15:15,767 --> 00:15:22,200
- I always knew
that it was wrong, but...
306
00:15:22,233 --> 00:15:25,100
after the--the first--
307
00:15:25,133 --> 00:15:29,200
The first killing
was not planned.
308
00:15:29,233 --> 00:15:32,433
I was coming back
from the shopping mall
309
00:15:32,467 --> 00:15:34,367
back in '78.
310
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:39,200
I had had fantasies
about picking up a hitchhiker
311
00:15:39,233 --> 00:15:42,066
and taking him
back to the house
312
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:47,100
and having complete control
and dominance over him.
313
00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:53,300
- Dahmer's violent fantasies Dahmer's violent fantasies
become reality- become reality
314
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:57,233
when he crosses paths
with 18-year-old Steve Hicks
315
00:15:57,233 --> 00:16:00,500
looking for a ride
to a nearby rock concert.
316
00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:05,000
- He picked up a young man
that was hitchhiking
317
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,767
and offered him a good time
318
00:16:06,767 --> 00:16:10,000
if he wanted to just stop
and visit with him
319
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,500
for a little bit.
320
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:14,233
Jeffrey Dahmer was attracted
specifically
321
00:16:14,233 --> 00:16:16,767
to this individual because
he wasn't wearing a shirt.
322
00:16:16,767 --> 00:16:19,367
Throughout the evening,
they drank alcohol,
323
00:16:19,367 --> 00:16:22,000
and I understand there might
have been marijuana involved.
324
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,400
Finally, Steve Hicks said
that "I should be going."
325
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,233
- He said, "We drank,
he wanted to leave,
326
00:16:29,233 --> 00:16:32,467
and I hit him with a barbell,
and I killed him."
327
00:16:32,467 --> 00:16:35,734
He says, "I didn't want him
to leave me."
328
00:16:35,734 --> 00:16:37,567
- For sexual pleasure,
329
00:16:37,567 --> 00:16:40,233
he took the life
of a human being.
330
00:16:40,233 --> 00:16:42,767
- All of Dahmer's victims
were men.
331
00:16:42,767 --> 00:16:44,500
His attraction to men
332
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:48,133
is what both motivated
and repulsed him.
333
00:16:48,166 --> 00:16:49,533
- Never understood it.
334
00:16:49,567 --> 00:16:51,233
There was no use
trying to fight it,
335
00:16:51,266 --> 00:16:53,166
because I couldn't rid myself
of it.
336
00:16:53,166 --> 00:16:56,166
It was--it was too powerful
and persistent.
337
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,000
- Do you dislike it?
338
00:16:58,033 --> 00:17:01,433
- Yes, it's caused
a lot of problems
339
00:17:01,467 --> 00:17:03,266
for me.
340
00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:07,000
A lot of conflicts
and unanswered questions.
341
00:17:07,033 --> 00:17:09,300
- Jerry Boyle
was Dahmer's lawyer.
342
00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:11,300
He believes
that Jeffrey's sexuality
343
00:17:11,333 --> 00:17:14,266
did not lead him to violence.
344
00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:19,200
- He was just really
very forthright with me.
345
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:24,066
It is my first belief
that if he was a heterosexual,
346
00:17:24,066 --> 00:17:26,734
he would have killed girls.
347
00:17:26,734 --> 00:17:30,200
- After Dahmer dismembers
Steven Hicks's corpse
348
00:17:30,233 --> 00:17:33,333
and stuffs the remains
in a deep drainage pipe
349
00:17:33,367 --> 00:17:35,266
in his parents' backyard,
350
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:38,066
he panics and decides
to dig up the body parts
351
00:17:38,066 --> 00:17:41,066
and dispose of them elsewhere.
352
00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:43,266
- He decided late at night
towards midnight
353
00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:45,166
to drive it to a local dump.
354
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,433
He was so nervous
355
00:17:46,467 --> 00:17:48,200
that he was driving
erratically,
356
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,200
and he was stopped
by a police officer.
357
00:17:50,233 --> 00:17:52,033
Mr. Dahmer kept
his wits about him.
358
00:17:52,066 --> 00:17:53,400
He told the police officer
359
00:17:53,433 --> 00:17:55,066
that his parents
had recently divorced.
360
00:17:55,066 --> 00:17:56,467
He said he couldn't sleep
361
00:17:56,467 --> 00:17:57,734
and wanted to take
a garbage bag
362
00:17:57,767 --> 00:17:59,533
to the garbage dump.
363
00:17:59,567 --> 00:18:01,500
The police officer
shined a flashlight inside
364
00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:04,300
and saw a green garbage bag.
365
00:18:04,333 --> 00:18:06,567
[ominous music]
366
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,767
- The officer had no reason
whatsoever
367
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,066
to believe that there was
anything unusual
368
00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:13,200
other than he might have been
a little bit nervous.
369
00:18:13,233 --> 00:18:16,367
But most people are nervous when
there's a traffic stop made.
370
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,233
- Jeff was very good
by that point
371
00:18:19,266 --> 00:18:23,500
at convincing adults
for whatever it was
372
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:26,066
he wanted to convince them of.
373
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:29,500
- Jeffrey Dahmer definitely
was a manipulator.
374
00:18:29,533 --> 00:18:31,333
He was able to convince
375
00:18:31,367 --> 00:18:33,600
not only the individuals
to come to his place,
376
00:18:33,633 --> 00:18:36,600
but he was also able
to convince people
377
00:18:36,633 --> 00:18:38,233
that nothing was wrong
378
00:18:38,266 --> 00:18:40,433
when there was something
very wrong.
379
00:18:40,467 --> 00:18:43,333
- It all could have ended
at that moment.
380
00:18:43,367 --> 00:18:45,633
But in the first
of many close calls
381
00:18:45,667 --> 00:18:48,000
when he could have been
stopped,
382
00:18:48,033 --> 00:18:51,533
Dahmer's let off
with only a ticket.
383
00:18:51,533 --> 00:18:54,200
- He took him home,
384
00:18:54,233 --> 00:18:56,066
smashed him all up,
385
00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:58,066
and he spread the bones
in the woods.
386
00:18:58,100 --> 00:19:02,367
- Steven Hicks's parents
reported him missing in 1978
387
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,467
but don't get any answers
until 1991,
388
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:07,367
when Dahmer confesses.
389
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,400
- That family had no idea
what had happened
390
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,266
to their 18-year-old son.
391
00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:14,533
He disappeared
off the face of the Earth.
392
00:19:14,533 --> 00:19:18,166
Talk about inflicting pain
if you're a parent.
393
00:19:21,033 --> 00:19:22,633
- Later that summer,
394
00:19:22,667 --> 00:19:25,500
Lionel and Shari moved back
into the Dahmer home
395
00:19:25,533 --> 00:19:27,300
with 18-year-old Jeffrey.
396
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,533
- He would come home
a time or two
397
00:19:29,567 --> 00:19:31,166
pretty well loaded.
398
00:19:31,166 --> 00:19:33,500
If he was totally drunk,
399
00:19:33,533 --> 00:19:36,300
he would forget where
he took his dad's car.
400
00:19:36,333 --> 00:19:38,400
We had to track the car down
several times,
401
00:19:38,433 --> 00:19:41,400
because Jeff just drew a blank.
402
00:19:41,433 --> 00:19:45,166
- Frustrated,
Lionel forces Jeffrey
403
00:19:45,166 --> 00:19:47,166
to enroll in college.
404
00:19:47,166 --> 00:19:49,433
- I attended
Ohio State University,
405
00:19:49,433 --> 00:19:51,667
and Jeff did as well.
406
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:56,400
The last time I saw him,
407
00:19:56,433 --> 00:19:59,500
he was laying on the sidewalk,
passed out dead drunk.
408
00:19:59,533 --> 00:20:02,166
I went over to him,
and I tried
409
00:20:02,166 --> 00:20:05,500
to shake him into consciousness.
410
00:20:05,533 --> 00:20:09,567
And I kept saying,
411
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,467
"Jeff, wake up.
Wake up."
412
00:20:11,467 --> 00:20:15,133
I knew then that Jeff was gone.
413
00:20:15,166 --> 00:20:18,133
- We found out he was drinking
at school and failing out,
414
00:20:18,166 --> 00:20:19,600
so we brought him home.
415
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,066
We took Jeff
for psychiatric care.
416
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:25,166
We took him to institutions.
417
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,133
But as the old saying goes,
418
00:20:27,166 --> 00:20:30,533
you can lead the horse to water,
but you can't make it drink.
419
00:20:30,567 --> 00:20:32,600
- I was just thinking
420
00:20:32,633 --> 00:20:35,166
of normal-type,
everyday things
421
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,333
that I could encourage him on
to do.
422
00:20:39,333 --> 00:20:42,567
And the Army was
423
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,433
the logical place, I thought.
424
00:20:45,467 --> 00:20:48,467
- During this time,
Jeffrey claims
425
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:51,433
his violent impulses
remained quiet.
426
00:20:51,467 --> 00:20:54,467
What happened to you
in the nine years in between
427
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:56,467
that you were able to stop,
428
00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:59,233
that you were able
to control yourself?
429
00:20:59,266 --> 00:21:01,233
- Just wasn't an opportunity
430
00:21:01,266 --> 00:21:05,734
to fully express
what I wanted to do.
431
00:21:05,767 --> 00:21:08,200
There was not just
the physical opportunity
432
00:21:08,233 --> 00:21:09,734
to do it then.
433
00:21:09,767 --> 00:21:11,700
- While investigators
never had any reason
434
00:21:11,734 --> 00:21:13,734
to doubt Dahmer's claim,
435
00:21:13,767 --> 00:21:17,333
for the first time,
two of his fellow servicemen
436
00:21:17,367 --> 00:21:19,200
are making accusations
437
00:21:19,233 --> 00:21:22,333
the public has never heard
before.
438
00:21:22,367 --> 00:21:24,233
Up next...
439
00:21:24,266 --> 00:21:26,467
- As a 17-year-old kid,
440
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:29,266
would you really get that out
in your unit
441
00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:32,266
that Jeff Dahmer raped you?
442
00:21:39,667 --> 00:21:40,266
After one failed semester
443
00:21:40,266 --> 00:21:40,500
After one failed semester
in college,
444
00:21:42,567 --> 00:21:44,500
Jeffrey Dahmer's dad
implores his son
445
00:21:44,533 --> 00:21:46,667
to find a direction in life.
446
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,633
He decides to enlist
in the Army.
447
00:21:49,667 --> 00:21:52,000
Jeffrey says his evil urges
were quieted
448
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,633
while in the service
449
00:21:53,667 --> 00:21:56,400
and he hoped
it would remain that way.
450
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,533
But according to those
he served with,
451
00:21:58,533 --> 00:22:00,266
they did not.
452
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:02,200
We've uncovered two victims
453
00:22:02,233 --> 00:22:05,266
who've agreed to speak
for the first time.
454
00:22:08,266 --> 00:22:09,400
- You know, you really
don't know someone
455
00:22:09,433 --> 00:22:11,300
until you live with them.
456
00:22:11,333 --> 00:22:14,533
- Billy Joe Capshaw
was Dahmer's roommate
457
00:22:14,567 --> 00:22:18,300
for 15 months while stationed
in Baumholder, Germany.
458
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:21,400
He arrived to replace
someone else in Dahmer's unit,
459
00:22:21,433 --> 00:22:22,700
Preston Davis.
460
00:22:22,734 --> 00:22:24,400
- We were out
on a field exercise.
461
00:22:24,433 --> 00:22:26,533
It was a two-week exercise.
462
00:22:26,567 --> 00:22:29,300
And the last three or four days
of the exercise,
463
00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:30,433
our vehicle broke down.
464
00:22:30,433 --> 00:22:32,300
During that timeframe,
465
00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:35,667
I was drugged and
sexually assaulted by Jeff.
466
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:39,300
- Preston says
the attack haunted him,
467
00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:42,000
and he eventually unraveled.
468
00:22:42,033 --> 00:22:44,000
- My career went downhill
after this.
469
00:22:44,033 --> 00:22:51,000
I got a DWI
in 1985 in the military.
470
00:22:51,033 --> 00:22:53,600
I had a rocky marriage
with my first wife.
471
00:22:53,633 --> 00:22:56,333
I wound up getting out
of the military in '86,
472
00:22:56,367 --> 00:22:59,734
divorcing her,
became estranged from my son.
473
00:22:59,734 --> 00:23:02,300
Substance abuse.
474
00:23:02,333 --> 00:23:04,467
Alcohol abuse.
475
00:23:04,467 --> 00:23:09,734
That's what a lot of victims do
476
00:23:09,767 --> 00:23:12,133
to try to suppress that pain.
477
00:23:13,633 --> 00:23:17,033
- But Preston wasn't
the only victim.
478
00:23:17,066 --> 00:23:18,700
Billy Capshaw
shared a room with Dahmer
479
00:23:18,734 --> 00:23:20,600
for over a year
480
00:23:20,633 --> 00:23:24,333
and says he faced
an even more intense ordeal.
481
00:23:24,333 --> 00:23:29,467
- He had me tied up, naked,
to a bunk, you know,
482
00:23:29,467 --> 00:23:31,734
and was...
483
00:23:31,767 --> 00:23:35,734
beside me, naked hisself,
484
00:23:35,767 --> 00:23:38,633
and holding me
like I would hold a woman.
485
00:23:38,667 --> 00:23:42,066
He raped me,
sexually molested me.
486
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:44,500
He tortured me.
487
00:23:44,533 --> 00:23:47,100
The attacks,
the things like that,
488
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:50,467
were continuous
and almost every day.
489
00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:54,500
- Billy told us his shame
over what was happening to him
490
00:23:54,533 --> 00:23:56,367
kept him quiet.
491
00:23:56,367 --> 00:23:57,633
- There's guys in there
492
00:23:57,667 --> 00:23:59,500
and they got guns,
and they're mean.
493
00:23:59,533 --> 00:24:01,100
They've been to Vietnam.
494
00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:03,500
As a 17-year-old kid,
495
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:06,100
would you really get that out
in your unit
496
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:09,333
that someone raped you?
497
00:24:10,667 --> 00:24:12,767
- The fact that Dahmer
would be so open
498
00:24:12,767 --> 00:24:14,600
about all of his crimes
499
00:24:14,633 --> 00:24:17,400
yet never address
these allegations
500
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,633
only creates more questions.
501
00:24:19,667 --> 00:24:21,667
Why did he leave this out?
502
00:24:21,667 --> 00:24:25,533
And what else could there be
that we don't know about?
503
00:24:25,533 --> 00:24:27,400
- The fact
that he didn't disclose
504
00:24:27,433 --> 00:24:31,133
the incidents in the military
505
00:24:31,133 --> 00:24:32,633
just doesn't surprise me.
506
00:24:32,667 --> 00:24:34,767
Jeffrey Dahmer wanted
to talk about
507
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,667
what he wanted to talk about.
508
00:24:36,667 --> 00:24:38,500
- In March of 1981,
509
00:24:38,533 --> 00:24:40,400
Dahmer is discharged
from the Army
510
00:24:40,433 --> 00:24:44,133
not for violent behavior
but for excessive drinking.
511
00:24:44,133 --> 00:24:48,667
- Was I disappointed in--
of course.
512
00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:52,133
I was disappointed
in his inability
513
00:24:52,133 --> 00:24:56,000
to achieve something,
514
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:02,433
you know, in normal working
or living.
515
00:25:04,567 --> 00:25:07,166
- That fall, 21-year-old
Jeffrey Dahmer
516
00:25:07,166 --> 00:25:09,033
moves back
into his parents' home
517
00:25:09,033 --> 00:25:11,133
in Bath, Ohio.
518
00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:16,033
Directionless,
he continues to drink heavily.
519
00:25:16,033 --> 00:25:17,700
His father and stepmother
push him
520
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:20,033
to get professional help.
521
00:25:20,033 --> 00:25:23,033
- I did as much
as I thought I could.
522
00:25:23,033 --> 00:25:24,667
He seemed to be
523
00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:25,767
an alcoholic,
524
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,533
so we got help that way
525
00:25:28,567 --> 00:25:30,433
and that sort of thing.
526
00:25:30,467 --> 00:25:32,533
- Lionel would drop him off,
527
00:25:32,567 --> 00:25:34,533
and Jeff would go
out the back door.
528
00:25:34,567 --> 00:25:36,767
So he wasn't going
for counseling.
529
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,633
And we reached a point
where we said,
530
00:25:39,667 --> 00:25:43,066
"We're going to send you up
to Grandma's house for a while
531
00:25:43,066 --> 00:25:45,700
and see if you can get
your life together."
532
00:25:45,734 --> 00:25:48,734
- Dahmer's grandmother believes
that through God,
533
00:25:48,734 --> 00:25:51,600
Jeffrey will change
his sexuality.
534
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,600
So he attends church
535
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,600
and gets a job drawing blood
at a local blood bank.
536
00:25:56,633 --> 00:25:59,467
But at this point,
his depraved urges
537
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:01,600
become harder and harder
to control,
538
00:26:01,633 --> 00:26:04,600
and he acts out.
539
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,600
He exposes himself to a group
of women and children
540
00:26:07,633 --> 00:26:11,467
at the Wisconsin State Fair
and is arrested.
541
00:26:11,467 --> 00:26:14,066
In court, he appears
remorseful,
542
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:16,166
which will become a routine
for him,
543
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,066
and all he gets is a fine,
$50 plus court fees.
544
00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:25,100
At this point, Dahmer tries to
find a substitute for killing,
545
00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:29,500
and what he settles on
is truly disturbing.
546
00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:33,100
- His goal was finding
the partner
547
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:35,100
who would lie there all night
548
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:38,633
so that he could have
the illusion
549
00:26:38,633 --> 00:26:42,633
of all the time in the world
to be close to that person.
550
00:26:42,633 --> 00:26:46,233
And his strategies
for finding that partner
551
00:26:46,233 --> 00:26:48,467
were creative and varied
552
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:51,100
but mostly ineffective.
553
00:26:51,133 --> 00:26:54,500
They included
scanning obituaries,
554
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:56,767
going to the funeral
if there was a viewing
555
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,467
to see if it was someone
he'd find attractive,
556
00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:01,767
and then trying to dig up
the grave.
557
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,600
[ominous music]
558
00:27:03,633 --> 00:27:05,667
On the two occasions
that he did that,
559
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:07,667
the ground was too frozen.
560
00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:10,500
He couldn't get anywhere
trying to dig it up.
561
00:27:10,533 --> 00:27:16,667
He found an attractive
store mannequin.
562
00:27:16,667 --> 00:27:19,133
He hid in a restroom
in the department store
563
00:27:19,133 --> 00:27:21,667
till after closing,
stole the mannequin,
564
00:27:21,700 --> 00:27:23,667
managed to get out
of the building,
565
00:27:23,667 --> 00:27:27,233
took the mannequin home
to his grandmother's house,
566
00:27:27,266 --> 00:27:31,633
and for some period of time
was satisfied
567
00:27:31,667 --> 00:27:35,000
lying next to
the attractive mannequin.
568
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,633
♪ ♪
569
00:27:37,667 --> 00:27:39,533
His grandmother found
the mannequin
570
00:27:39,533 --> 00:27:41,133
and disposed of it.
571
00:27:44,033 --> 00:27:46,166
- He spent a number of months,
572
00:27:46,166 --> 00:27:48,567
if not longer,
going to gay bath houses
573
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,300
in both Chicago and Milwaukee.
574
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:52,567
He would slip Halcion
into the drinks
575
00:27:52,567 --> 00:27:54,033
of men
that he would meet there.
576
00:27:54,066 --> 00:27:56,033
They would fall asleep.
577
00:27:56,033 --> 00:27:57,700
He would fondle them,
pretending in his own mind
578
00:27:57,734 --> 00:27:59,533
that they were dead.
579
00:27:59,567 --> 00:28:02,033
- That was satisfying to him
for a time.
580
00:28:02,033 --> 00:28:06,567
But he gave too much of the drug
to one of the men.
581
00:28:06,567 --> 00:28:08,133
- The bath house operator
582
00:28:08,166 --> 00:28:09,266
couldn't wake
one of these fellows,
583
00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:10,700
had to call to get medical help.
584
00:28:10,734 --> 00:28:12,433
They realize
that Dahmer's doing this,
585
00:28:12,467 --> 00:28:14,266
so they banned him
from the bath houses.
586
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:17,033
- Once again,
he could have been stopped,
587
00:28:17,033 --> 00:28:19,567
and once again,
he wasn't.
588
00:28:22,333 --> 00:28:27,200
- When I moved to Milwaukee
in '81,
589
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,734
I started reading pornography,
590
00:28:30,734 --> 00:28:35,333
going to the bookstores.
591
00:28:35,333 --> 00:28:39,200
Eventually, that lead to
592
00:28:39,233 --> 00:28:41,200
frequenting the gay bars.
593
00:28:41,233 --> 00:28:44,333
And then I--
594
00:28:44,333 --> 00:28:46,333
One time, I brought
this young man
595
00:28:46,367 --> 00:28:50,333
back to the hotel room,
the Ambassador Hotel,
596
00:28:50,333 --> 00:28:52,300
was just planning
on drugging him
597
00:28:52,333 --> 00:28:55,600
and spending the night with him.
598
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,567
I had no intention
of hurting him.
599
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,600
When I woke up in the morning,
he had a broken rib here.
600
00:29:01,633 --> 00:29:03,600
It was heavily bruised.
601
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,333
Apparently, I had beaten him
to death with my fists.
602
00:29:07,367 --> 00:29:10,100
- And you have no memory of it.
- I have no memory of it.
603
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:14,066
But that's what started
the whole spree all over again.
604
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:20,100
- He tells me
it wasn't premeditated
605
00:29:20,133 --> 00:29:22,767
and that he then needed
to find more time
606
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,233
in order to dispose of the body.
607
00:29:25,233 --> 00:29:28,600
- It has been nine years
since his last kill.
608
00:29:28,633 --> 00:29:31,367
And in what seems like
an instant,
609
00:29:31,367 --> 00:29:34,233
he goes into a mode
that is familiar to him:
610
00:29:34,233 --> 00:29:36,633
the cover-up.
611
00:29:36,633 --> 00:29:39,633
Up next,
Dahmer's crimes escalate,
612
00:29:39,633 --> 00:29:41,767
and the bodies are piling up.
613
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,100
- I was saving body parts
614
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:49,200
such as skulls and skeletons.
615
00:29:55,533 --> 00:29:56,033
In the fall of 1987,
616
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,133
Jeffrey Dahmer wakes up
in a hotel room in Milwaukee.
617
00:30:01,166 --> 00:30:03,667
He is in bed
with the bludgeoned body
618
00:30:03,667 --> 00:30:05,400
of his second victim.
619
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,100
He says he has no memory
of killing the man.
620
00:30:08,133 --> 00:30:10,000
- He had to sign in
621
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,633
for a second night
622
00:30:11,667 --> 00:30:14,133
in order to now have time
to get rid of the body
623
00:30:14,133 --> 00:30:15,667
by stuffing it into a suitcase
624
00:30:15,667 --> 00:30:18,266
and ultimately removing it.
625
00:30:18,266 --> 00:30:21,266
- He took it
to his grandmother's house
626
00:30:21,266 --> 00:30:23,133
to put it in the basement
627
00:30:23,166 --> 00:30:26,400
until he was able to cut it up
and get it in the garbage.
628
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,400
And he knew the routine
of the garbage men,
629
00:30:28,433 --> 00:30:33,033
so he'd cut it up Sundays
while Grandma went to church,
630
00:30:33,066 --> 00:30:34,300
have it in the garbage
by Monday,
631
00:30:34,333 --> 00:30:36,433
and it would be gone.
632
00:30:36,433 --> 00:30:38,300
- Police would later determine
633
00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:42,300
the victim was 24-year-old
Steven Tuomi.
634
00:30:42,333 --> 00:30:44,700
He'd recently moved
to Milwaukee
635
00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:46,433
from northern Michigan
636
00:30:46,433 --> 00:30:48,266
and met Dahmer
after he finished his shift
637
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:51,433
at a local restaurant.
638
00:30:51,433 --> 00:30:57,133
- I had these obsessive
desires and thoughts,
639
00:30:57,166 --> 00:31:02,667
wanting to control them,
to...
640
00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:05,433
I don't know how to put it.
641
00:31:05,433 --> 00:31:06,700
Possess them permanently.
642
00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:08,133
- And that's why
you killed them.
643
00:31:08,166 --> 00:31:09,700
- Right, right,
644
00:31:09,734 --> 00:31:11,400
not because I was angry
with them,
645
00:31:11,433 --> 00:31:13,333
not because I hated them
646
00:31:13,333 --> 00:31:17,734
but because I wanted
to keep them with me.
647
00:31:17,734 --> 00:31:23,200
And as my obsession grew,
648
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,467
I was saving body parts
649
00:31:25,467 --> 00:31:30,300
such as skulls and skeletons.
650
00:31:30,333 --> 00:31:32,333
- At his grandmother's,
651
00:31:32,333 --> 00:31:36,066
Dahmer's desire to kill
escalates.
652
00:31:36,066 --> 00:31:39,734
He takes two more lives
in the winter of 1988,
653
00:31:39,734 --> 00:31:43,066
raising his victim count
to four.
654
00:31:43,066 --> 00:31:46,700
James Doxtator
is only 14 years old
655
00:31:46,734 --> 00:31:49,734
when Dahmer lures him
with the promise of $50
656
00:31:49,767 --> 00:31:51,200
to take a few pictures.
657
00:31:51,233 --> 00:31:53,200
And six weeks later,
658
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,100
it's 23-year-old
Richard Guerrero.
659
00:31:56,133 --> 00:31:59,467
Both face the same fate:
660
00:31:59,500 --> 00:32:03,100
drugged, strangled,
dismembered.
661
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:06,367
It's at this time
Dahmer hones his craft
662
00:32:06,367 --> 00:32:08,200
in disposing of bodies,
663
00:32:08,233 --> 00:32:11,100
learning how flesh dissolves
in acid
664
00:32:11,133 --> 00:32:12,767
and bones would need to be
crushed up
665
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,767
and tossed in the trash.
666
00:32:14,767 --> 00:32:18,100
According to Lionel,
his grandmother objects
667
00:32:18,133 --> 00:32:20,333
to the smells
coming from the basement
668
00:32:20,367 --> 00:32:24,066
but apparently doesn't
figure out what's going on.
669
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:27,467
Or maybe
she just doesn't want to.
670
00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:31,500
- I would send Lionel up
to his mother's house
671
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:33,367
to deal with problems,
672
00:32:33,367 --> 00:32:36,500
but I really wasn't aware
at that time
673
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:41,133
that Lionel was too naive
to handle the situation.
674
00:32:41,166 --> 00:32:44,367
Lionel didn't believe his son
was doing anything wrong.
675
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:50,367
- He was doing strange things.
676
00:32:52,033 --> 00:32:55,400
We thought it was
with roadkill.
677
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,233
That's what he told us,
678
00:32:57,266 --> 00:33:00,100
and I--I believed him.
679
00:33:00,133 --> 00:33:03,000
But I said, "Jeff,"
you know,
680
00:33:03,033 --> 00:33:07,133
"your grandma just can't take
this sort of thing.
681
00:33:07,133 --> 00:33:09,333
You really need to move out."
682
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,533
- Now on his own,
683
00:33:16,533 --> 00:33:19,567
Jeffrey Dahmer's free
to give in to his urges.
684
00:33:19,567 --> 00:33:22,433
Just one day after moving
into his own apartment,
685
00:33:22,433 --> 00:33:25,433
Dahmer brings home
a 13-year-old boy,
686
00:33:25,467 --> 00:33:27,433
drugs and fondles him.
687
00:33:27,433 --> 00:33:29,166
Dahmer is arrested
688
00:33:29,166 --> 00:33:31,533
for sexual assault
against a minor.
689
00:33:31,567 --> 00:33:34,000
This is the boy's testimony.
690
00:33:34,033 --> 00:33:37,100
We should warn you
it's shocking and disturbing.
691
00:33:45,266 --> 00:33:48,133
- How did the authorities
find out about this?
692
00:33:48,166 --> 00:33:51,166
Well, for some reason,
when the boy wanted to leave,
693
00:33:51,166 --> 00:33:53,233
Dahmer let him go.
694
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,200
- We talked about the incident
that he was involved in.
695
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,467
It was pretty clear to me
696
00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:12,033
that he was
a little bit different.
697
00:34:12,066 --> 00:34:15,333
- Jerry Boyle is hired
by Lionel and Shari Dahmer
698
00:34:15,367 --> 00:34:18,033
to represent Jeffrey
in this case.
699
00:34:18,066 --> 00:34:21,467
- I think my son was
a freshman in high school
700
00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:23,433
at the time.
701
00:34:23,467 --> 00:34:25,300
I think he could have
whipped Dahmer in a minute.
702
00:34:25,333 --> 00:34:27,200
Never would I have believed
703
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,333
that he was a killer, ever,
704
00:34:29,367 --> 00:34:31,300
because there was nothing
to indicate to me
705
00:34:31,333 --> 00:34:32,467
that he was that way.
706
00:34:32,467 --> 00:34:35,066
I mean, it just wasn't there.
707
00:34:35,066 --> 00:34:37,600
- Dahmer's ability to deceive
708
00:34:37,633 --> 00:34:41,066
is only matched
by his desire to kill.
709
00:34:41,066 --> 00:34:44,233
Between his conviction
in January of 1989
710
00:34:44,266 --> 00:34:48,467
and his sentencing in May,
he is not deterred.
711
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:50,467
Dahmer takes his fifth life,
712
00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:54,467
24-year-old Anthony Sears,
on March 25th.
713
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:57,233
This murder marks
a depraved turning point
714
00:34:57,233 --> 00:34:59,233
in Dahmer's process.
715
00:34:59,233 --> 00:35:05,633
- I kept the mummified head
and skull
716
00:35:05,633 --> 00:35:07,467
of one of the victims
717
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:11,200
in a carrying case
in my locker at work.
718
00:35:11,233 --> 00:35:13,100
- Were you almost
flaunting it?
719
00:35:13,133 --> 00:35:15,600
- Yes, but that's how strong
the compulsion was.
720
00:35:15,633 --> 00:35:18,333
That's how bizarre
the desire was.
721
00:35:18,367 --> 00:35:23,400
I wanted to keep something
of the person with me.
722
00:35:23,433 --> 00:35:25,633
- But during
the sexual assault trial,
723
00:35:25,667 --> 00:35:28,367
no one had any knowledge
of that,
724
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:33,100
which is why Jerry Boyle fought
to keep Dahmer a free man.
725
00:35:33,133 --> 00:35:35,400
- The outcome in the case was,
726
00:35:35,433 --> 00:35:39,667
Jeffrey admitted
to everything he was accused of,
727
00:35:39,667 --> 00:35:42,133
except he was vehement
in saying
728
00:35:42,166 --> 00:35:44,667
that he never touched a child.
729
00:35:44,667 --> 00:35:47,133
I didn't believe
what he was telling me,
730
00:35:47,133 --> 00:35:51,667
but my job is to try
and figure out what do for him
731
00:35:51,667 --> 00:35:53,533
and for society
732
00:35:53,533 --> 00:35:56,266
by getting him a sentence
that made sense,
733
00:35:56,266 --> 00:35:59,133
and I think we did that.
734
00:35:59,133 --> 00:36:00,667
- He fooled his attorney
735
00:36:00,667 --> 00:36:03,533
that was representing him.
736
00:36:03,533 --> 00:36:08,166
He fooled so many people
as to his real feelings.
737
00:36:08,166 --> 00:36:11,700
Unfortunately,
I didn't realize it at the time.
738
00:36:11,700 --> 00:36:14,300
- Dahmer avoids jail time.
739
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:17,133
Instead,
he's given work release
740
00:36:17,166 --> 00:36:20,433
and mandatory time with
a mental health professional.
741
00:36:20,433 --> 00:36:22,533
Another close call,
742
00:36:22,567 --> 00:36:25,433
another opportunity where
he could have been stopped.
743
00:36:25,467 --> 00:36:28,433
And once again,
he acts remorseful.
744
00:36:28,467 --> 00:36:30,367
He writes to the judge.
745
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,266
"What I did was deplorable.
746
00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:34,300
"The world has
enough misery in it
747
00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:36,667
"without my adding more to it.
748
00:36:36,700 --> 00:36:38,533
"Sir, I can assure you
749
00:36:38,567 --> 00:36:41,367
that it will never happen
again."
750
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,567
We now know nothing could be
further from the truth.
751
00:36:45,567 --> 00:36:47,333
- He would go see
a psychiatrist
752
00:36:47,333 --> 00:36:49,567
and not say a word
for ten sessions,
753
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,300
and they'd let him walk
out the door.
754
00:36:52,333 --> 00:36:54,467
Probation officer, he'd say,
755
00:36:54,467 --> 00:36:56,433
"You have these feelings
of, you know,
756
00:36:56,467 --> 00:36:58,734
sexual perversion
and all that?"
757
00:36:58,734 --> 00:37:02,700
He says, "No, I read books
and masturbate to that."
758
00:37:02,734 --> 00:37:05,433
He's out there killing people.
759
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,600
- Up next...
760
00:37:09,633 --> 00:37:11,333
Do you ever think
about your victims?
761
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,300
- Uh, I've often wondered
why I haven't had
762
00:37:18,333 --> 00:37:23,300
more dreams or nightmares
about what I've done.
763
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:29,367
By May of 1989,
764
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:34,233
Jeffrey Dahmer's body count
is at five.
765
00:37:34,233 --> 00:37:35,734
Then he is sentenced
766
00:37:35,767 --> 00:37:38,367
to one year
in a work release program
767
00:37:38,367 --> 00:37:41,734
for the drugging and fondling
of a 13-year-old boy.
768
00:37:41,767 --> 00:37:44,700
He claims during that time,
there were no killings.
769
00:37:44,734 --> 00:37:48,233
After he's released
and on probation,
770
00:37:48,266 --> 00:37:53,266
he finds a new place to live,
somewhere off the beaten path.
771
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,233
- I had asked him
772
00:37:57,233 --> 00:38:00,600
a number of times,
"Why are you down here,
773
00:38:00,633 --> 00:38:03,333
"you know, when you can go
somewhere else
774
00:38:03,367 --> 00:38:07,233
"and stay, like, in West Alice
at your grandmother's house
775
00:38:07,233 --> 00:38:08,467
"or something like that?
776
00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:11,066
"And you would rather be here,
777
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:13,600
where you're surrounded
by blacks."
778
00:38:13,633 --> 00:38:15,600
And that's all that
was over there,
779
00:38:15,633 --> 00:38:20,133
was black people
and some Asian people.
780
00:38:20,133 --> 00:38:22,200
He was like, "I like it better
down here,
781
00:38:22,233 --> 00:38:24,533
'cause I can keep more
to myself."
782
00:38:24,533 --> 00:38:28,266
- Pamela Bass, who lives
across the hall from Dahmer
783
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:29,367
in the Oxford Apartments,
784
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,533
develops a soft spot
785
00:38:31,533 --> 00:38:35,767
for the man she would describe
as an unassuming bachelor.
786
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,667
- You know, me and my husband
at that time
787
00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:41,467
were trying to get him
a girlfriend,
788
00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:44,133
because we thought that,
you know,
789
00:38:44,133 --> 00:38:46,266
he was over there by hisself,
and he didn't get out much,
790
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:47,734
and all this here kind of stuff.
791
00:38:47,767 --> 00:38:50,200
So he said, "No, no, I'm fine.
792
00:38:50,233 --> 00:38:52,433
I just want to work
and be left alone."
793
00:38:52,433 --> 00:38:54,433
[ominous music]
794
00:38:54,467 --> 00:38:58,700
- Within a week of settling in
to apartment 213,
795
00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:02,000
Dahmer lures 32-year-old
Raymond Smith
796
00:39:02,033 --> 00:39:03,700
home for a drink,
797
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:07,033
laces it with drugs,
strangles him to death,
798
00:39:07,066 --> 00:39:09,700
and dismembers his body.
799
00:39:09,734 --> 00:39:12,700
A month later,
Dahmer repeats the process
800
00:39:12,734 --> 00:39:17,767
on a 27-year-old acquaintance,
Edward Smith,
801
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,700
raising his victim count
to seven.
802
00:39:21,734 --> 00:39:24,700
Before you went out
to pick up a man,
803
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:28,033
was there any kind of ritual
you went through?
804
00:39:28,033 --> 00:39:31,300
- I'd go to the nightclubs,
drink,
805
00:39:31,300 --> 00:39:36,033
watch the strip tease shows.
806
00:39:36,066 --> 00:39:39,200
And if I didn't meet anyone
at the bars,
807
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,467
I'd go to the Bath clubs
808
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:44,567
and meet someone there,
809
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,066
offer them money,
810
00:39:47,066 --> 00:39:51,066
and we'd go back
to the apartment,
811
00:39:51,066 --> 00:39:52,400
have a few drinks.
812
00:39:52,433 --> 00:39:56,600
I'd have
the sleeping pill mixture
813
00:39:56,633 --> 00:39:58,734
already prepared.
814
00:39:58,767 --> 00:40:02,000
The person would drink it,
fall asleep.
815
00:40:02,033 --> 00:40:05,767
And that's when they would be
strangled.
816
00:40:08,166 --> 00:40:10,734
- The question of how
Mr. Dahmer chose his victims
817
00:40:10,767 --> 00:40:13,033
I don't think
is a complicated one.
818
00:40:13,066 --> 00:40:15,767
He tried to find people
that were attractive to him
819
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,100
and who were willing
820
00:40:17,133 --> 00:40:19,367
to go with him voluntarily.
821
00:40:19,367 --> 00:40:22,767
He wasn't jumping out of cars
and attacking people and so on.
822
00:40:22,767 --> 00:40:26,367
- The men he's inviting back
823
00:40:26,367 --> 00:40:28,467
don't want to just lie there.
824
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:31,333
They want to get it on,
get it over with,
825
00:40:31,367 --> 00:40:33,300
and get going.
826
00:40:33,333 --> 00:40:35,633
He found that
enormously frustrating.
827
00:40:35,633 --> 00:40:37,433
Some of them rolled him.
828
00:40:37,467 --> 00:40:39,600
Some of them were nasty
to him.
829
00:40:39,633 --> 00:40:41,700
He didn't want to get
into an argument
830
00:40:41,734 --> 00:40:45,233
or get into a fight
or get robbed.
831
00:40:45,233 --> 00:40:47,500
He wanted somebody to lie there
with him.
832
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:49,700
But he was picking
the wrong guys
833
00:40:49,734 --> 00:40:51,500
to try to achieve that,
834
00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:55,633
so he began drugging them
at his apartment.
835
00:40:55,633 --> 00:40:59,767
- He wanted his victims
to be still and quiet
836
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,767
so he didn't have to face
their humanity.
837
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,467
- It's a process.
It doesn't happen overnight.
838
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:11,467
When you depersonalize
another person
839
00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:14,266
and view them as just an object,
840
00:41:14,300 --> 00:41:16,400
an object for pleasure
841
00:41:16,433 --> 00:41:21,400
instead of a living, breathing
human being,
842
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,400
it seems to make it easier
843
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,367
to...
844
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,367
do things you shouldn't do.
845
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,133
- It struck me
that classifying murder
846
00:41:34,166 --> 00:41:36,233
as a "thing you shouldn't do"
847
00:41:36,266 --> 00:41:38,600
minimizes the horror
and brutality
848
00:41:38,633 --> 00:41:41,033
of Jeffrey Dahmer's actions.
849
00:41:41,066 --> 00:41:42,567
- Dahmer drugged his victims,
850
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,033
so they weren't pleading
for their lives.
851
00:41:45,066 --> 00:41:47,033
They weren't crying out
in pain
852
00:41:47,033 --> 00:41:48,367
as he inflicted a torture
on them.
853
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,266
So he was in many ways
different,
854
00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:53,000
frighteningly different.
855
00:41:53,033 --> 00:41:55,633
- Do you ever think
about your victims?
856
00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:03,400
- Uh, I've often wondered
why I haven't had
857
00:42:03,433 --> 00:42:08,266
more dreams or nightmares
about what I've done.
858
00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:11,433
For some reason, it's like
it's blocked off
859
00:42:11,433 --> 00:42:13,233
from part of my mind.
860
00:42:13,266 --> 00:42:15,433
If I dwelled on the subject
all the time,
861
00:42:15,433 --> 00:42:18,166
I would...
862
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,166
I wouldn't be able to function.
863
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,066
- In talking to Jeffrey Dahmer,
864
00:42:23,066 --> 00:42:26,333
I realized that one of
his most peculiar traits was,
865
00:42:26,333 --> 00:42:28,400
no matter how well
he knew his victims,
866
00:42:28,433 --> 00:42:30,600
he didn't view them as people.
867
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,066
That's why,
in his 160-page confession,
868
00:42:34,066 --> 00:42:36,734
he could describe
everything he did to them
869
00:42:36,734 --> 00:42:38,734
in excruciating detail
870
00:42:38,734 --> 00:42:41,600
but he couldn't
remember their names.
871
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,200
Up next.
872
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,467
- Told us how he
cooked them.
873
00:42:44,467 --> 00:42:46,333
What they tasted like.
874
00:42:46,333 --> 00:42:49,600
- He seemed like a
very normal person.
875
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,200
He covered up so much.
876
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,300
I was branching out
that's when
877
00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:56,700
the cannibalism started.
878
00:42:56,700 --> 00:42:59,467
He just was crazy sick.
879
00:42:59,467 --> 00:43:01,066
Things just began to
deteriorate.
880
00:43:01,066 --> 00:43:04,100
He became like a killing
machine out of control.
881
00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:05,500
It just seemed
to be an absence
882
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:07,233
of any moral compass
in the man at all.
883
00:43:07,233 --> 00:43:11,033
- I didn t believe in
the concept of evil.
884
00:43:11,033 --> 00:43:11,767
And, now I do.
885
00:43:22,233 --> 00:43:22,600
No one, no one had a clue
886
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:27,767
as to what was happening
for over a decade.
887
00:43:27,767 --> 00:43:30,734
[eerie music]
888
00:43:30,767 --> 00:43:33,700
♪ ♪
889
00:43:33,734 --> 00:43:35,467
- He became
like a killing machine
890
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:37,233
out of control.
891
00:43:37,233 --> 00:43:38,700
- There just seemed to be
an absence
892
00:43:38,734 --> 00:43:40,166
of any moral compass.
893
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,467
He was an evil man.
894
00:43:44,767 --> 00:43:46,000
- The manager came up
895
00:43:46,033 --> 00:43:47,734
and complained about the smell.
896
00:43:47,767 --> 00:43:51,100
He told the manager,
"Well, my fish died."
897
00:43:52,533 --> 00:43:55,467
- He had a very good disguise.
898
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,266
- It's a process;
it doesn't happen overnight
899
00:44:08,266 --> 00:44:12,767
when you depersonalize
another person
900
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,200
and view them as just an object,
an object for pleasure,
901
00:44:18,233 --> 00:44:21,066
instead of a living, breathing
human being.
902
00:44:24,133 --> 00:44:30,033
I had these obsessive desires
and thoughts,
903
00:44:30,033 --> 00:44:32,233
wanting to control them.
904
00:44:34,166 --> 00:44:37,166
- He immediately said,
"When you find out what I did,
905
00:44:37,166 --> 00:44:38,500
you're gonna want to kill me."
906
00:44:40,266 --> 00:44:43,300
- You love
who the true human being is,
907
00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:45,467
and you take that with you
to your grave.
908
00:44:48,166 --> 00:44:51,500
- He seemed like
a very normal boy.
909
00:44:51,533 --> 00:44:54,100
He covered up so much.
910
00:44:54,133 --> 00:44:56,100
- Murder.
- Necrophilia.
911
00:44:56,133 --> 00:44:57,767
- Zombies.
- Religious ritual.
912
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,500
- Vats of acid.
- Body parts.
913
00:44:59,533 --> 00:45:01,033
- Aroused.
- Consuming.
914
00:45:01,033 --> 00:45:02,500
- Willing.
- Cooked them.
915
00:45:02,533 --> 00:45:07,600
- Bad people.
- [tearfully] He was our son.
916
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,333
from Jeffrey Dahmer
tting across
917
00:45:10,333 --> 00:45:12,533
in a small prison
meeting room.
918
00:45:12,567 --> 00:45:14,533
And face-to-face,
919
00:45:14,567 --> 00:45:17,266
I can see how he got away
with his terrible crimes.
920
00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:20,200
He appears completely normal.
921
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,200
That's what made him
so frightening.
922
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,200
In the second half
of our conversation,
923
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,266
he talks about
the most vicious acts--
924
00:45:26,300 --> 00:45:29,266
cannibalism, murder,
dismemberment--
925
00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:31,133
in the most casual way.
926
00:45:31,166 --> 00:45:32,600
He even says he's sorry.
927
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,266
He sounds thoughtful.
928
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:36,266
He sounds sincere.
929
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:40,133
But Jeffrey Dahmer was
a psychopath.
930
00:45:40,166 --> 00:45:42,200
When you killed these men,
931
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,200
afterwards,
were you repulsed?
932
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:46,533
Were you upset?
933
00:45:46,567 --> 00:45:50,500
- No, it--at the time,
it was--
934
00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:52,233
it was almost addictive.
935
00:45:52,233 --> 00:45:56,367
It was almost...
936
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,166
a surge of energy.
937
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,567
I wouldn't have to worry
938
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,433
about any of their needs
or anything.
939
00:46:06,467 --> 00:46:09,767
I just had complete control
of the situation.
940
00:46:09,767 --> 00:46:12,367
- The right way to think of him
941
00:46:12,367 --> 00:46:15,600
is as having necrophilia.
942
00:46:15,633 --> 00:46:17,433
Now, usually, we think
of necrophilia
943
00:46:17,467 --> 00:46:19,367
as being about corpses.
944
00:46:19,367 --> 00:46:21,367
I think it's more than that.
945
00:46:21,367 --> 00:46:23,166
I think it is control
946
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,500
over the completely passive,
compliant partner
947
00:46:26,533 --> 00:46:30,367
that he could fondle, hug,
touch, and lie with
948
00:46:30,367 --> 00:46:32,500
as long as possible.
949
00:46:32,533 --> 00:46:35,467
- He always said he didn't enjoy
murdering people.
950
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:37,400
He said that.
I don't doubt that.
951
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,133
But he enjoyed getting sex,
952
00:46:39,133 --> 00:46:40,667
and he enjoyed getting it
against their will,
953
00:46:40,667 --> 00:46:42,667
and he did what he had to do
to get it.
954
00:46:42,667 --> 00:46:45,333
- He told me
his motivating force
955
00:46:45,367 --> 00:46:48,533
was to have sex with a partner
who wouldn't leave him.
956
00:46:48,533 --> 00:46:51,734
But more than that,
he wanted to be the aggressor,
957
00:46:51,767 --> 00:46:54,200
and he didn't want
to be touched.
958
00:46:54,233 --> 00:46:57,367
What do you want to say to
the families of the victims?
959
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,600
- I had no intention
of hurting them.
960
00:47:00,633 --> 00:47:04,500
I was--I--
961
00:47:04,533 --> 00:47:05,767
I was extremely selfish.
962
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,400
I was only thinking of myself,
963
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:12,433
my own pleasure, my own...
964
00:47:12,433 --> 00:47:15,633
perverted desires.
965
00:47:15,667 --> 00:47:19,367
- In the meantime,
he has men dying.
966
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,400
To dispose of them
required dismembering them.
967
00:47:23,433 --> 00:47:25,000
He hated this process.
968
00:47:26,567 --> 00:47:28,433
But if he drank enough,
969
00:47:28,433 --> 00:47:30,000
he could lay down
sheets of plastic
970
00:47:30,033 --> 00:47:31,567
and begin the process
of cutting
971
00:47:31,567 --> 00:47:34,433
and the hard work
of dismembering
972
00:47:34,433 --> 00:47:38,533
and putting body parts
in vats of acid.
973
00:47:42,700 --> 00:47:47,567
- When the bodies were
still in your apartment,
974
00:47:47,567 --> 00:47:50,667
there was no time
when you would see them
975
00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:53,667
and say, "This is grotesque"?
976
00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:55,400
"What have I done?"
977
00:47:55,433 --> 00:47:58,066
- There were times.
There were times.
978
00:47:58,066 --> 00:48:03,734
But the compulsive obsession
with doing what I was doing
979
00:48:03,734 --> 00:48:06,734
overpowered any feelings
of revulsion.
980
00:48:06,734 --> 00:48:09,667
- In September of 1990,
981
00:48:09,700 --> 00:48:12,266
Dahmer's victim count
is seven,
982
00:48:12,300 --> 00:48:15,567
and he would have
yet more bodies to dispose of.
983
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,734
22-year-old Ernest Miller
is a dance student
984
00:48:18,734 --> 00:48:20,600
he meets outside a bookstore.
985
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,300
Dahmer murders
the talented dancer,
986
00:48:23,333 --> 00:48:25,000
stuffs his entire skeleton
987
00:48:25,033 --> 00:48:27,266
in the bottom
of a filing cabinet
988
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:28,667
in his apartment
989
00:48:28,700 --> 00:48:32,467
and his heart and biceps
in his freezer.
990
00:48:32,467 --> 00:48:34,400
Three weeks later,
991
00:48:34,433 --> 00:48:36,567
Dahmer brings home
and strangles David Thomas,
992
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,500
a 22-year-old man
he meets outside a mall.
993
00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:42,367
He has claimed nine lives,
994
00:48:42,367 --> 00:48:4 124147
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