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1
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(dog barking)
2
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(rumble of car engine)
3
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(barking continues)
4
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We got this call,
5
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and I didn't know whose house it was.
6
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I had never been on a call there but there
7
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had been 10, 11, 12 officers that had been
8
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on various calls over the years.
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Simpson is standing on the left side
10
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of the driveway, by the shrubs,
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holding a baseball bat.
12
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Nicole is sitting on the front part
13
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of a 450SL Mercedes,
windshield smashed in,
14
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and she's bawling, heaving, I mean,
15
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almost uncontrollably.
16
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He's got this look on his face,
17
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like he's going to do battle.
18
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And I say, "Put the bat down."
19
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And he's got this look, this rage look.
20
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I said, "Put the bat down."
21
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He didn't do it the second time.
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I took out my baton, and
I said, "Put it down now."
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And then all of a sudden
there was this calm
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that came over his face, he dropped it,
25
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and he goes, "Oh, sorry, Officer."
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And I went over, and she was still crying,
27
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and I said, "Do you
want to make a report?"
28
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And she goes, "No."
29
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I remember saying this because it was...
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I think expressing
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my displeasure
32
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that she was allowing herself
to be treated like this.
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I said, "It's your life."
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(somber music)
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Alright, let the record reflect that
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we have been rejoined by
all member of our jury panel.
37
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Mr. Darden, you may continue.
38
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Did that search warrant authorize you
39
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to drill a hole in a safe
deposit box at Union Bank?
40
00:02:55,189 --> 00:02:56,722
Yes.
41
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Whose safe deposit box was it?
42
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Nicole Brown Simpson.
43
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Recognize that item?
44
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Yes, it was in a sealed envelope
45
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that was contained inside
the safe deposit box.
46
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The strategy had been to open the case
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with a couple weeks of
domestic violence evidence.
48
00:03:29,890 --> 00:03:31,223
Did you remove that Polaroid
49
00:03:31,225 --> 00:03:33,358
from Nicole Brown's safe deposit box?
50
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Yes, I did.
51
00:03:35,662 --> 00:03:36,828
Do you know who took that photograph?
52
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I did.
53
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The swelling over her right eye.
54
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That isn't how she usually looked, is it?
55
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No, it's not.
56
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Going to present all that evidence
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in an effort to knock Simpson
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off the iconic pedestal on which he stood.
59
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And you mentioned that pictures
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began flying off the walls.
61
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How did they come flying off the wall?
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O.J. was walking up the
hall, or up the staircase,
63
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and he started throwing them.
64
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He took them off the wall and started
65
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throwing them down.
66
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Did the defendant say anything?
67
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He wanted her out of his house,
68
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and he threw her up against the wall,
69
00:04:11,517 --> 00:04:14,718
and the eyes got real angry.
70
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It wasn't as if it was O.J. anymore.
71
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I was so disappointed.
72
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I just had no comprehension about it,
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no knowledge.
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What did the defendant say
75
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about your sister's weight
while she was pregnant?
76
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He used to call her a fat pig.
77
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It's like finding out
your wife's a bad person,
78
00:04:45,417 --> 00:04:47,317
you know?
79
00:04:47,319 --> 00:04:49,920
911 Emergency, (inaudible)?
80
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I heard a female screaming.
81
00:04:51,490 --> 00:04:53,056
Hello?
82
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I definitely felt for Nicole.
83
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And then I heard someone being hit.
84
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(taped screams)
85
00:05:04,403 --> 00:05:08,738
You know, I looked at him,
"You're a pretty bad person."
86
00:05:08,740 --> 00:05:11,741
He's capable of outbursts.
87
00:05:11,743 --> 00:05:14,711
(inaudible) in the living room!
88
00:05:14,713 --> 00:05:16,580
If you have the personality,
89
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you can physically abuse women.
90
00:05:19,585 --> 00:05:20,884
I don't want to stay on the line.
91
00:05:20,886 --> 00:05:22,352
He's going to beat the shit out of me.
92
00:05:22,354 --> 00:05:23,119
Wait a minute.
93
00:05:23,121 --> 00:05:24,187
Well, then to me, you're also
94
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capable of murdering that woman.
95
00:05:26,474 --> 00:05:28,758
She felt like she was in imminent danger,
96
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and so we made it life...
I made it life threatening.
97
00:05:56,054 --> 00:05:57,487
Miss Brown, directing your attention
98
00:05:57,489 --> 00:06:00,423
to June 12, 1994.
99
00:06:00,425 --> 00:06:02,092
Had you and your sister and your parents
100
00:06:02,094 --> 00:06:03,159
planned to go somewhere
101
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after the recital was over?
102
00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:07,063
Yes we did, we were going out to dinner.
103
00:06:07,065 --> 00:06:09,132
Okay, and where were you planning to go?
104
00:06:10,969 --> 00:06:14,137
We were going to Mezzaluna Restaurant.
105
00:06:16,241 --> 00:06:20,143
The domestic violence
testimony was the 'why' of it.
106
00:06:20,145 --> 00:06:21,611
Did you invite the defendant to go
107
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to the Mezzaluna?
108
00:06:22,581 --> 00:06:24,147
No, I did not.
109
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Did you hear anyone else invite
110
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the defendant to go to the Mezzaluna?
111
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No, I did not.
112
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Abusers blame their victims
113
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for the cycle of violence,
114
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and on that particular
night I think it all
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came to a head for him.
116
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He went to the recital, and the Mezzaluna
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date was made, he was not included,
118
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and then he tries to reach
Paula later that night,
119
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at 10:03, calling her twice,
when he was in the Bronco.
120
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She was not there.
121
00:06:50,509 --> 00:06:52,809
And I think that was
the last straw for him.
122
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He was abandoned by Nicole,
123
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he was abandoned by Paula,
124
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and that's why we're here.
125
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There's a connection with abuse,
126
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and could it lead to death?
127
00:07:04,289 --> 00:07:05,522
Sure.
128
00:07:07,993 --> 00:07:09,693
But I don't think they proved that.
129
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How many times did you hear her
130
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shout, "He's going to kill
me, he's going to kill me,"?
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Four or five times.
132
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Let me tell you,
133
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I lose respect for any woman that take
134
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an ass-whupping when she don't have to.
135
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Don't stay in the water
136
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If it's over your head.
137
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You'll drown.
138
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They did not get it.
139
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They just didn't care.
140
00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:42,325
They got it, I mean, you know,
it's not that complicated.
141
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They didn't care.
142
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So...
143
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Our hearts sank.
144
00:07:47,699 --> 00:07:50,033
We thought, we are really going to have
145
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a tough time if our
jurors don't understand
146
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how this is relevant.
147
00:07:54,740 --> 00:07:57,507
The last thing I told her
148
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is that I loved her.
149
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Knowing what I believed I knew,
150
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I still refused to testify.
151
00:08:10,088 --> 00:08:13,022
But, I get a call from
Chris Darden, he said,
152
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"Look, you know, you
don't, you're not going
153
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to testify, but I need
you to come down here.
154
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I've got to ask you
a couple of questions.
155
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Would you please?"
156
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I went, "Okay."
157
00:08:26,071 --> 00:08:30,273
Chris is sitting there, and he goes,
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"Hey, man, how you
doing, what's going on?"
159
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30, 45 seconds goes by, someone went,
160
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"Chris, you've got a phone call."
161
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He goes, "Oh, Ron, be right back."
162
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And as I'm sitting there,
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I look in front of me, you know,
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where Chris was sitting,
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I see this book, and it has a big Ron
166
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and Nicole on it.
167
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I opened it up.
168
00:08:57,135 --> 00:08:58,902
And I see these beautiful
pictures of Nicole,
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with her modeling.
170
00:09:00,705 --> 00:09:04,007
I keep opening it, nice pictures of Ron.
171
00:09:05,911 --> 00:09:11,014
And all of a sudden, I get to
the actual homicide pictures.
172
00:09:17,956 --> 00:09:19,589
Now, I've seen a million
homicide pictures,
173
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I've been in, I don't
know how many homicides
174
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in my 15 years as an L.A.P.D. cop.
175
00:09:25,964 --> 00:09:29,532
But all of a sudden you
look at some pictures
176
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of somebody you actually know.
177
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Looked at those pictures, it changed me.
178
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It changed me.
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Everybody always beating cops up.
180
00:09:49,821 --> 00:09:52,188
Man, there's a lot of stuff that we see,
181
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and we suppress.
182
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I'll never forget the
first homicide that I saw.
183
00:10:08,340 --> 00:10:10,106
Oh, it was, um...
184
00:10:13,311 --> 00:10:15,478
excuse me.
185
00:10:19,885 --> 00:10:21,985
It was a 19-year-old girl.
186
00:10:23,388 --> 00:10:25,521
(police radio chatter)
187
00:10:25,523 --> 00:10:27,090
We got a call.
188
00:10:28,393 --> 00:10:32,729
When I went up there,
she was totally nude.
189
00:10:32,731 --> 00:10:34,931
She had been beaten to a pulp,
190
00:10:34,933 --> 00:10:37,233
and discarded in the parking lot.
191
00:10:39,237 --> 00:10:41,804
I was like, "What kind
of guy would do this?"
192
00:10:44,709 --> 00:10:47,210
She was 19 years old.
193
00:10:47,212 --> 00:10:48,278
I couldn't even, I
couldn't make out her face,
194
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,246
because it was beaten in so bad.
195
00:10:50,248 --> 00:10:51,247
Blonde hair.
196
00:10:52,350 --> 00:10:57,287
And we got a call that
the guy turned himself in.
197
00:10:57,289 --> 00:11:00,189
We went and picked him up.
198
00:11:00,191 --> 00:11:02,992
And I sat in the back seat with this guy.
199
00:11:04,396 --> 00:11:06,796
I wanted to kill him.
200
00:11:06,798 --> 00:11:08,298
I mean, all I thought
about is this is somebody's
201
00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:11,768
daughter, sister, whatever,
that's never coming home.
202
00:11:11,770 --> 00:11:15,038
Oh, when I saw Nicole's pictures,
203
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,273
that was the same thing, I felt like that,
204
00:11:17,275 --> 00:11:19,275
with O.J.
205
00:11:20,445 --> 00:11:23,212
Only an animal would
do something like this
206
00:11:23,214 --> 00:11:26,015
to the mother of your kids.
207
00:11:29,421 --> 00:11:31,988
Chris came back,
208
00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:36,092
and when he sat down, I
said, "I'm testifying."
209
00:11:36,094 --> 00:11:37,760
He said, "What?"
210
00:11:37,762 --> 00:11:40,496
I said, "I'm testifying."
211
00:11:41,933 --> 00:11:43,132
The People call Ron Shipp
212
00:11:43,134 --> 00:11:45,134
to the stand, Ron.
213
00:11:45,136 --> 00:11:46,569
To the stand, Mr. Shipp.
214
00:11:46,571 --> 00:11:48,237
Raise your right hand, please.
215
00:11:48,239 --> 00:11:49,772
Do you solemnly swear or
affirm that the testimony
216
00:11:49,774 --> 00:11:51,074
you're about give will be
the truth, the whole truth
217
00:11:51,076 --> 00:11:52,241
and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
218
00:11:52,243 --> 00:11:53,576
Yes, I do.
219
00:11:53,578 --> 00:11:54,444
Please be seated.
220
00:11:54,446 --> 00:11:56,980
Traitor.
221
00:11:56,982 --> 00:11:58,281
Judas.
222
00:11:58,283 --> 00:11:59,415
Ronald Shipp.
223
00:11:59,417 --> 00:12:01,084
R-o-n-a-l-d.
224
00:12:01,086 --> 00:12:03,286
Becky called him Judas.
225
00:12:03,288 --> 00:12:06,189
And what did the defendant say?
226
00:12:06,191 --> 00:12:08,024
He kind of jokingly just said, you know,
227
00:12:08,026 --> 00:12:10,593
you know, to be honest, Shipp, that's what
228
00:12:10,595 --> 00:12:12,328
he called me, Shipp.
229
00:12:12,330 --> 00:12:16,966
He said, "I've had some
dreams of killing her."
230
00:12:16,968 --> 00:12:20,937
This is my one moment to help put somebody
231
00:12:20,939 --> 00:12:25,308
who's responsible for
Nicole and Ron's murder,
232
00:12:25,310 --> 00:12:26,876
put them in prison.
233
00:12:26,878 --> 00:12:29,879
Do you and the defendant
remain friends today?
234
00:12:31,383 --> 00:12:33,516
Well, I still love the guy, but...
235
00:12:33,518 --> 00:12:36,452
I don't know, I mean,
this is a weird situation.
236
00:12:36,454 --> 00:12:38,254
I'm sitting here.
237
00:12:39,457 --> 00:12:40,790
You say you still love him.
238
00:12:40,792 --> 00:12:43,059
Sure.
239
00:12:46,197 --> 00:12:47,530
Did he tell the truth?
240
00:12:47,532 --> 00:12:49,032
Yeah.
241
00:12:50,201 --> 00:12:52,502
But anybody's that's credible,
what do you have to do?
242
00:12:52,504 --> 00:12:54,670
Nothing further.
243
00:12:54,672 --> 00:12:57,073
You have to destroy them.
244
00:12:58,710 --> 00:13:00,543
You drink a lot, don't you?
245
00:13:00,545 --> 00:13:02,011
I used to.
246
00:13:02,013 --> 00:13:03,513
You've had a drinking problem,
247
00:13:03,515 --> 00:13:04,647
haven't you?
248
00:13:04,649 --> 00:13:06,749
In the past I have.
249
00:13:06,751 --> 00:13:09,152
They painted him out to be
250
00:13:09,154 --> 00:13:12,221
an alcoholic, womanizer.
251
00:13:12,223 --> 00:13:15,158
Isn't it true, Sir, that
you were with a friend,
252
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:16,259
other than your wife.
253
00:13:16,261 --> 00:13:17,226
Yes I was.
254
00:13:17,228 --> 00:13:19,162
She was blonde, was she not?
255
00:13:19,164 --> 00:13:21,064
It was a friend of my
wife's, that's correct.
256
00:13:21,066 --> 00:13:22,832
I see.
257
00:13:22,834 --> 00:13:26,069
And when you were at his home,
258
00:13:26,071 --> 00:13:29,005
in the dark, with the blonde,
259
00:13:29,007 --> 00:13:31,074
who wasn't your wife, who's here in court,
260
00:13:31,076 --> 00:13:34,210
you did ask that he bring
you a bottle of wine.
261
00:13:34,212 --> 00:13:35,211
Didn't you?
262
00:13:35,213 --> 00:13:36,512
That's correct.
263
00:13:36,514 --> 00:13:38,247
They destroyed him.
264
00:13:38,249 --> 00:13:41,717
You're not really this
man's friend, are you, Sir?
265
00:13:41,719 --> 00:13:42,685
Well, I guess you could say
266
00:13:42,687 --> 00:13:43,953
I was like everybody else.
267
00:13:43,955 --> 00:13:45,021
one of his servants.
268
00:13:45,023 --> 00:13:46,556
I did police stuff for him all the time,
269
00:13:46,558 --> 00:13:48,791
I ran license plates.
270
00:13:48,793 --> 00:13:52,195
You weren't the kind of
friend that he would share
271
00:13:52,197 --> 00:13:56,432
some private secret with, were you, Sir?
272
00:13:56,434 --> 00:13:59,635
Nothing except for the 1989 beating,
273
00:13:59,637 --> 00:14:02,038
where he needed me.
274
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,973
When they started lying, and they came
275
00:14:03,975 --> 00:14:05,942
up with all these different things.
276
00:14:05,944 --> 00:14:08,411
Isn't it true, Sir, that you have
277
00:14:08,413 --> 00:14:12,148
told Mr. Simpson's friend that
278
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:13,249
if Mr. Simpson
279
00:14:13,251 --> 00:14:15,451
weren't around, you might have a shot
280
00:14:15,453 --> 00:14:18,154
at Nicole Brown Simpson yourself?
281
00:14:19,057 --> 00:14:21,090
No, I did not.
282
00:14:21,092 --> 00:14:24,060
He looked at me with
that O.J. Simpson smile.
283
00:14:24,062 --> 00:14:26,963
And, oh, I felt that hate come back.
284
00:14:26,965 --> 00:14:28,564
I felt it come back.
285
00:14:28,566 --> 00:14:30,466
Mr. Douglas, I hope you get
your facts straight, okay?
286
00:14:30,468 --> 00:14:31,434
Hold on, hold on.
287
00:14:31,436 --> 00:14:32,135
You're attacking me.
288
00:14:32,137 --> 00:14:33,803
Hold on, Mr. Shipp.
289
00:14:33,805 --> 00:14:36,739
This is sad, O.J., this is really sad.
290
00:14:36,741 --> 00:14:39,642
Your Honor, I move to strike that.
291
00:14:39,644 --> 00:14:43,779
I was like, "This guy
deserves to rot in hell."
292
00:14:43,781 --> 00:14:47,016
I do remember that I was told, you know,
293
00:14:47,018 --> 00:14:49,185
after I did make that decision to testify,
294
00:14:49,187 --> 00:14:51,187
"You're not alone."
295
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:53,322
And I saw a list, they
said, "These are the ones
296
00:14:53,324 --> 00:14:56,459
that are going to be testifying."
297
00:14:56,461 --> 00:14:59,929
But after they got through with me,
298
00:14:59,931 --> 00:15:02,265
everybody got amnesia.
299
00:15:02,267 --> 00:15:06,335
I will not have the blood
of Nicole on Ron Shipp.
300
00:15:07,839 --> 00:15:09,772
I can sleep at night,
301
00:15:09,774 --> 00:15:11,207
unlike a lot of others.
302
00:15:11,209 --> 00:15:12,341
Mr. Shipp.
303
00:15:13,711 --> 00:15:16,546
I think that was the first person that
304
00:15:16,548 --> 00:15:22,185
it became evident that
everybody's expendable.
305
00:15:22,187 --> 00:15:25,221
That if the Titanic sank,
O.J. was going to take
306
00:15:25,223 --> 00:15:27,790
a life vest for himself,
but he's going to probably
307
00:15:27,792 --> 00:15:30,993
take yours, too, just in case.
308
00:15:30,995 --> 00:15:33,029
He was a fighter, he was a hustler,
309
00:15:33,031 --> 00:15:34,830
he was a competitor.
310
00:15:34,832 --> 00:15:37,233
To survive, to get to where he was,
311
00:15:37,235 --> 00:15:40,403
he had to be good, and he was.
312
00:15:40,405 --> 00:15:43,039
I was struck by how engaged he was.
313
00:15:43,041 --> 00:15:45,975
That when we're in court that day,
314
00:15:47,178 --> 00:15:50,012
you'll recall, usually I'm
sitting next to him when we
315
00:15:50,014 --> 00:15:51,247
talk about that, you know what I mean?
316
00:15:51,249 --> 00:15:54,050
In a lot of cases, the defendant is really
317
00:15:54,052 --> 00:15:55,484
sort of incidental.
318
00:15:55,486 --> 00:15:57,186
You really have the
sense that it's legal team
319
00:15:57,188 --> 00:15:59,388
versus legal team,
320
00:15:59,390 --> 00:16:01,190
whereas I did have the sense that he was
321
00:16:01,192 --> 00:16:04,794
a significant player within his own team.
322
00:16:06,664 --> 00:16:08,731
O.J. was brilliant.
323
00:16:08,733 --> 00:16:11,234
in terms of how things played.
324
00:16:11,236 --> 00:16:13,269
You say that the
conversation with Mr. Simpson
325
00:16:13,271 --> 00:16:14,737
was eating you up.
326
00:16:14,739 --> 00:16:15,838
Is that your statement?
327
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,173
That's correct.
328
00:16:17,175 --> 00:16:19,242
And did you hope to excorcise
329
00:16:19,244 --> 00:16:22,445
this pain from your body.
330
00:16:22,447 --> 00:16:24,714
He would give me more than a few
331
00:16:24,716 --> 00:16:26,249
tongue lashings
332
00:16:26,251 --> 00:16:28,684
to make sure that I would communicate
333
00:16:28,686 --> 00:16:31,520
in a way that would convey the image
334
00:16:31,522 --> 00:16:33,256
that he thought would be best.
335
00:16:33,258 --> 00:16:37,193
I remember I had some spittle on my mouth.
336
00:16:37,195 --> 00:16:40,630
And he said, "Wipe your mouth!"
"Wipe the spit off your mouth!"
337
00:16:40,632 --> 00:16:43,466
He took me to the woodshed.
338
00:16:44,535 --> 00:16:48,237
But I was 39 years old,
339
00:16:48,239 --> 00:16:51,040
working on behalf of O.J.
Simpson and on television.
340
00:16:52,243 --> 00:16:55,645
I'm living the life of all
my colleagues would dream.
341
00:16:55,647 --> 00:16:59,949
So, if I had to eat a little cheese,
342
00:16:59,951 --> 00:17:04,320
while being on TV, that was
a small price for me to pay.
343
00:17:04,322 --> 00:17:05,921
What was remarkable about him was
344
00:17:05,923 --> 00:17:08,090
his ability to turn on the charisma.
345
00:17:08,092 --> 00:17:09,659
And it, like that.
346
00:17:09,661 --> 00:17:11,927
In a moment, he could smile.
347
00:17:11,929 --> 00:17:13,296
He knew when the camera was on him
348
00:17:13,298 --> 00:17:15,264
in that courtroom,
349
00:17:15,266 --> 00:17:18,734
and he would be, have a
really benign expression.
350
00:17:18,736 --> 00:17:20,770
And when the camera moved away from him,
351
00:17:20,772 --> 00:17:23,005
the face fell.
352
00:17:23,007 --> 00:17:25,408
Everything that happened in that courtroom
353
00:17:25,410 --> 00:17:27,943
was by design.
354
00:17:27,945 --> 00:17:30,980
Who sat where, what colors they wore,
355
00:17:30,982 --> 00:17:32,982
what ties they wore.
356
00:17:32,984 --> 00:17:34,684
Some days, it would be very irritating
357
00:17:34,686 --> 00:17:36,319
to see the games the defense was playing
358
00:17:36,321 --> 00:17:40,022
when they would put on those ties,
359
00:17:40,024 --> 00:17:42,191
that kente cloth.
360
00:17:42,193 --> 00:17:43,726
Stop it.
361
00:17:44,662 --> 00:17:47,330
He's communicating to the jury.
362
00:17:47,332 --> 00:17:48,531
I know Johnnie well enough,
363
00:17:48,533 --> 00:17:50,499
I know how he works.
364
00:17:50,501 --> 00:17:53,302
Now the prosecution, Miss Clark.
365
00:17:53,304 --> 00:17:54,603
They're insulting you.
366
00:17:54,605 --> 00:17:55,938
They're insulting the intelligence,
367
00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:57,540
and the credibility of this jury.
368
00:17:57,542 --> 00:17:59,475
When they implied that we are in some way
369
00:17:59,477 --> 00:18:01,977
trying to manipulate a
predominantly black jury
370
00:18:01,979 --> 00:18:04,447
by my wearing this African tribal tie.
371
00:18:04,449 --> 00:18:06,215
(laughter)
372
00:18:06,217 --> 00:18:09,151
That's an insult to this jury,
and I am personally offended.
373
00:18:09,153 --> 00:18:11,187
Not only on my behalf,
but also on the behalf
374
00:18:11,189 --> 00:18:13,189
of my esteemed colleagues.
375
00:18:13,191 --> 00:18:15,491
Mr. Shapiro...
376
00:18:15,493 --> 00:18:17,626
Mr. Bailey...
377
00:18:18,563 --> 00:18:20,529
And Mr. Scheck.
378
00:18:21,999 --> 00:18:23,532
I had spent a lot of time
thinking about cameras
379
00:18:23,534 --> 00:18:25,067
in the courtroom.
380
00:18:25,069 --> 00:18:27,670
The camera is going to
be out to about here.
381
00:18:27,672 --> 00:18:29,705
It was supposed to be something that would
382
00:18:29,707 --> 00:18:32,975
really elevate the country's understanding
383
00:18:32,977 --> 00:18:35,511
of the American legal system.
384
00:18:35,513 --> 00:18:37,213
Having the cameras in the courtroom
385
00:18:37,215 --> 00:18:39,181
allows everyone to see how
a trial really proceeds,
386
00:18:39,183 --> 00:18:40,916
so then they see the actual
evidence, as it's being
387
00:18:40,918 --> 00:18:44,653
brought out, and that's a good thing.
388
00:18:44,655 --> 00:18:46,822
But that's not what happened.
389
00:18:48,493 --> 00:18:49,558
There was no internet.
390
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,494
There was no MSNBC.
391
00:18:51,496 --> 00:18:52,828
There was no FOX.
392
00:18:52,830 --> 00:18:55,164
There was one cable news network,
393
00:18:55,166 --> 00:18:59,268
and CNN covered the case gavel to gavel.
394
00:18:59,270 --> 00:19:02,538
This case was everywhere.
395
00:19:02,540 --> 00:19:04,173
The Simpson Trial, by any standard,
396
00:19:04,175 --> 00:19:06,342
is a very, very big news story.
397
00:19:06,344 --> 00:19:08,010
In this country, the O.J. Simpson.
398
00:19:08,012 --> 00:19:09,678
At the O.J. Simpson Trial.
399
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,213
There are some big decisons
to report in the O.J.
400
00:19:11,215 --> 00:19:13,682
More on the O.J. Simpson
story tonight on Nightline,
401
00:19:13,684 --> 00:19:16,185
and tomorrow night on 20/20.
402
00:19:16,187 --> 00:19:18,788
I think before O.J., what
was the biggest story?
403
00:19:18,790 --> 00:19:21,357
The Lindbergh kidnapping.
404
00:19:22,393 --> 00:19:25,194
I can't think of one bigger than O.J.
405
00:19:25,196 --> 00:19:28,464
where celebrity drove the story.
406
00:19:28,466 --> 00:19:29,765
On the 3 Network Newscast,
407
00:19:29,767 --> 00:19:31,901
the Simpson story has been given more time
408
00:19:31,903 --> 00:19:35,971
in two months than any
other topic this year.
409
00:19:35,973 --> 00:19:38,641
There is a ravenous
public appetite for this,
410
00:19:38,643 --> 00:19:40,643
and the fact of the
matter is, it is one whale
411
00:19:40,645 --> 00:19:42,711
of a good story.
412
00:19:42,713 --> 00:19:46,148
O.J.'s celebrity status clearly
made it a big time story.
413
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:50,219
But I think the fact that
you had the interracial
414
00:19:50,221 --> 00:19:52,721
angle there kind of juiced
it and I think it had
415
00:19:52,723 --> 00:19:56,559
a little extra pizzazz.
416
00:19:56,561 --> 00:19:58,994
Here is a black man, in America,
417
00:19:58,996 --> 00:20:01,464
who is accused of killing a white woman.
418
00:20:01,466 --> 00:20:04,767
Black hero killing white woman.
419
00:20:04,769 --> 00:20:07,436
Black men killing white
women, now that happens.
420
00:20:07,438 --> 00:20:09,138
Nobody cares.
421
00:20:09,140 --> 00:20:14,276
But black American
hero killing white woman
422
00:20:14,278 --> 00:20:17,313
was a giant thing.
423
00:20:19,784 --> 00:20:23,486
It was branded as the
'trial of the century',
424
00:20:23,488 --> 00:20:26,589
and my mother said, "If
O.J. had killed Marguerite,
425
00:20:26,591 --> 00:20:28,757
this would not be the
trial of the century,
426
00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:30,526
and his black ass would be in jail."
427
00:20:34,265 --> 00:20:39,201
The Simpson Case never felt
like a real murder case.
428
00:20:39,203 --> 00:20:41,003
It felt like a media circus.
429
00:20:45,042 --> 00:20:47,209
I would walk out the
door, and there would be
430
00:20:47,211 --> 00:20:49,044
the press standing right
there with microphones,
431
00:20:49,046 --> 00:20:51,780
and cameras and I'm wearing a white dress,
432
00:20:51,782 --> 00:20:54,149
and the press is holding
microphones in my face,
433
00:20:54,151 --> 00:20:56,018
and saying, "What's the
significance of the white dress?
434
00:20:56,020 --> 00:20:57,653
What does it mean?"
435
00:20:57,655 --> 00:20:59,755
You know, it was clean.
436
00:21:02,393 --> 00:21:04,827
There was a certain amount of denial
437
00:21:04,829 --> 00:21:08,163
I was living in in terms of how much
438
00:21:08,165 --> 00:21:11,901
attention I would get at any given time.
439
00:21:11,903 --> 00:21:13,836
As you can see, Clark is smack-dab
440
00:21:13,838 --> 00:21:16,005
in the middle of a national debate,
441
00:21:16,007 --> 00:21:17,406
and it has nothing whatsoever to do
442
00:21:17,408 --> 00:21:19,575
with the O.J. Simpson trial.
443
00:21:19,577 --> 00:21:22,845
Here's more on the story from Judy Muller.
444
00:21:22,847 --> 00:21:24,380
I really hated it.
445
00:21:24,382 --> 00:21:26,248
The coverage of it became, you know,
446
00:21:26,250 --> 00:21:27,816
real infotainment.
447
00:21:27,818 --> 00:21:29,818
O.J. girlfriend in Playboy,
448
00:21:29,820 --> 00:21:31,720
O.J. girlfriend before Grand Jury.
449
00:21:31,722 --> 00:21:34,189
O.J. Defense Tip Hotline unplugged.
450
00:21:34,191 --> 00:21:37,026
O.J. houseboy's girlfriend
holds news conference.
451
00:21:37,028 --> 00:21:39,228
The O.J. stories are everywhere.
452
00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:41,931
So is the ET coverage.
453
00:21:41,933 --> 00:21:44,667
Our job is to tell people
what happened today,
454
00:21:44,669 --> 00:21:46,769
and what was important.
455
00:21:46,771 --> 00:21:50,005
We have lost sight of
giving people the news
456
00:21:50,007 --> 00:21:51,840
in terms of its significance.
457
00:21:51,842 --> 00:21:54,710
We're giving it to them in
terms of what we think simply
458
00:21:54,712 --> 00:21:59,848
is the most titillating and
the most ratings-grabbing.
459
00:21:59,850 --> 00:22:01,684
You think he'd be there for you the way
460
00:22:01,686 --> 00:22:03,085
you were there for him?
461
00:22:03,087 --> 00:22:06,021
The celibacy thing, I don't know about.
462
00:22:06,023 --> 00:22:09,124
There was so much
hand-wringing at TV networks,
463
00:22:09,126 --> 00:22:10,759
and at The New York Times.
464
00:22:10,761 --> 00:22:12,261
There was one editor at
The Times who was quoted
465
00:22:12,263 --> 00:22:14,930
as saying, "Now I find
myself reading the Enquirer
466
00:22:14,932 --> 00:22:18,033
every week, and chasing leads out of it."
467
00:22:18,035 --> 00:22:21,036
I think we have to ask at what point
468
00:22:21,038 --> 00:22:23,539
do what should be journalistic decisions
469
00:22:23,541 --> 00:22:26,275
become marketing decisions?
470
00:22:26,277 --> 00:22:28,577
I think a lot of the elitism
went out of the mainstream
471
00:22:28,579 --> 00:22:30,713
media at that point.
472
00:22:30,715 --> 00:22:33,482
And they're like, "Well,
if this is what people want,
473
00:22:33,484 --> 00:22:34,984
this is what we're going to give them."
474
00:22:34,986 --> 00:22:37,086
Tonight the woman who calls herself
475
00:22:37,088 --> 00:22:40,990
Nicole Brown Simpson's
best friend, Faye Resnick.
476
00:22:40,992 --> 00:22:45,227
If Nicole was caught talking
to the gas station attendant,
477
00:22:45,229 --> 00:22:47,229
he would make it seem as
if she was having an affair
478
00:22:47,231 --> 00:22:48,998
with him.
479
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,966
The cameras in the courtroom, I think,
480
00:22:50,968 --> 00:22:54,436
gave too much notoriety to the witnesses.
481
00:22:54,438 --> 00:22:56,405
I heard a thumping noise.
482
00:22:56,407 --> 00:22:57,773
How many thumps did you hear?
483
00:22:57,775 --> 00:22:58,474
Three.
484
00:22:58,476 --> 00:23:00,809
(thud, thud, thud)
485
00:23:00,811 --> 00:23:01,977
Someone pointed out and said,
486
00:23:01,979 --> 00:23:02,911
"There's Kato Kaelin."
487
00:23:02,913 --> 00:23:04,780
I'll say, "Oh, yeah."
488
00:23:04,782 --> 00:23:07,082
And I'll gawk like everybody else.
489
00:23:07,084 --> 00:23:11,086
The same can be said
for all the attendants,
490
00:23:11,088 --> 00:23:15,524
in the courtroom, I
mean, I remember one day
491
00:23:15,526 --> 00:23:19,461
I saw Marcia and she said,
"Larry King is in chambers
492
00:23:19,463 --> 00:23:21,030
with Judge Ito."
493
00:23:24,101 --> 00:23:25,100
Did you talk about him possibly
494
00:23:25,102 --> 00:23:26,001
appearing on your show?
495
00:23:31,942 --> 00:23:33,876
They made everyone celebrities.
496
00:23:44,722 --> 00:23:47,189
I understood money and attorneys,
497
00:23:47,191 --> 00:23:49,458
reputation and celebrity.
498
00:23:49,460 --> 00:23:50,893
And who am I?
499
00:23:50,895 --> 00:23:52,795
I'm a nobody.
500
00:23:55,399 --> 00:23:57,399
I am nobody.
501
00:24:04,341 --> 00:24:07,309
I began to get some insight into Fuhrman,
502
00:24:08,679 --> 00:24:11,246
and I said, "There's the jugular vein."
503
00:24:12,683 --> 00:24:15,017
All we have to do is cut that.
504
00:24:15,019 --> 00:24:17,986
And there's nothing left of consequence.
505
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:21,223
He was going to be their fall guy.
506
00:24:21,225 --> 00:24:23,192
We all knew it.
507
00:24:23,194 --> 00:24:25,227
But they were going to go
after him any way they could.
508
00:24:26,697 --> 00:24:27,930
We heard from a guy that Fuhrman
509
00:24:27,932 --> 00:24:30,799
wanted a job in South Africa.
510
00:24:32,069 --> 00:24:33,769
He wanted to be in a force where you could
511
00:24:33,771 --> 00:24:38,107
shoot niggers that have not
been accused of anything.
512
00:24:41,212 --> 00:24:44,046
Another witness said
Fuhrman had pulled her over,
513
00:24:44,048 --> 00:24:47,082
and when he did a Corvette
went by with a black
514
00:24:47,084 --> 00:24:50,219
guy driving and a nice looking white girl.
515
00:24:50,221 --> 00:24:53,889
And Fuhrman spewed out a line of epithets
516
00:24:53,891 --> 00:24:57,192
about how unconstitutional that was,
517
00:24:57,194 --> 00:25:00,195
for this guy to be running
around with a white woman.
518
00:25:02,032 --> 00:25:04,533
These stories were hair-raising.
519
00:25:06,637 --> 00:25:09,204
These allegations get more
outrageous by the minute.
520
00:25:09,206 --> 00:25:12,207
And I'm stricken again
by the preposterousness
521
00:25:12,209 --> 00:25:14,143
of the claims of the defense.
522
00:25:14,145 --> 00:25:15,911
The people respectfully
submit to the court
523
00:25:15,913 --> 00:25:17,479
that what we have here is not a defense,
524
00:25:17,481 --> 00:25:19,148
it's a smear campaign.
525
00:25:19,150 --> 00:25:21,750
We made him a central part,
526
00:25:21,752 --> 00:25:24,219
consistent with the themes
527
00:25:24,221 --> 00:25:26,221
that he's the boogeyman.
528
00:25:28,092 --> 00:25:31,660
Who is Mark Fuhrman, and what was he like?
529
00:25:31,662 --> 00:25:34,263
I got a bunch of calls
from black police officers,
530
00:25:34,265 --> 00:25:38,000
who said, "Fuhrman is
absolutely not a racist."
531
00:25:38,002 --> 00:25:40,269
His former commanding officer, who happens
532
00:25:40,271 --> 00:25:44,940
to be black, told me
that he was one of those
533
00:25:44,942 --> 00:25:46,975
people who made the most remarkable
534
00:25:46,977 --> 00:25:49,244
turnaround, and became such an exceptional
535
00:25:49,246 --> 00:25:52,548
detective, and was really a good guy.
536
00:25:54,018 --> 00:25:55,484
Joining us now is the former chief
537
00:25:55,486 --> 00:25:58,086
of the Los Angeles Police
Department, Daryl Gates.
538
00:26:01,292 --> 00:26:04,326
We knew that the police
department would take
539
00:26:04,328 --> 00:26:06,595
a very defensive posture.
540
00:26:06,597 --> 00:26:08,096
I think the record supports the fact
541
00:26:08,098 --> 00:26:10,465
that Mark was a good police officer.
542
00:26:10,467 --> 00:26:13,168
That he was a nice young man.
543
00:26:13,170 --> 00:26:14,369
He was not a racist, he was this and that.
544
00:26:14,371 --> 00:26:17,506
The better he played to us.
545
00:26:17,508 --> 00:26:19,208
You cannot take the words
546
00:26:19,210 --> 00:26:20,776
of a defense team as the gospel
547
00:26:20,778 --> 00:26:23,011
in the city of Los Angeles.
548
00:26:25,950 --> 00:26:27,249
(applause)
549
00:26:28,485 --> 00:26:30,986
There was one glove
found at the crime scene.
550
00:26:30,988 --> 00:26:34,056
Its match was found at his house
551
00:26:34,058 --> 00:26:36,325
bearing the blood and hair and fiber
552
00:26:36,327 --> 00:26:38,660
from Ron and Nicole.
553
00:26:38,662 --> 00:26:41,697
How does it get more
incriminating than that?
554
00:26:41,699 --> 00:26:43,665
And that's why the defense knew
555
00:26:43,667 --> 00:26:46,235
they had to knock out that glove.
556
00:26:46,237 --> 00:26:47,903
I had to go.
557
00:26:47,905 --> 00:26:49,404
One way or another.
558
00:26:49,406 --> 00:26:52,975
A truck hitting me, they would have done
559
00:26:52,977 --> 00:26:56,278
whatever it took to get rid of me.
560
00:26:58,148 --> 00:27:01,750
None of them thought
that I planted that glove.
561
00:27:01,752 --> 00:27:05,287
But they wanted the question to loom.
562
00:27:06,523 --> 00:27:10,025
I am convinced that
glove was placed there.
563
00:27:10,027 --> 00:27:14,062
We call that framing a guilty man.
564
00:27:14,064 --> 00:27:16,231
I mean, look, cops plant guns, I mean,
565
00:27:16,233 --> 00:27:17,900
why do you think they plant guns?
566
00:27:17,902 --> 00:27:19,768
They don't plant guns on somebody who they
567
00:27:19,770 --> 00:27:22,404
perceive as innocent,
they plant guns on somebody
568
00:27:22,406 --> 00:27:26,208
who they think is a dirt
bag, and they had maybe
569
00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:29,411
a questionable shooting,
so they needed to place
570
00:27:29,413 --> 00:27:33,282
the other gun in order to
justify their shootings.
571
00:27:45,062 --> 00:27:49,131
Mark Fuhrman picked the
glove up at the scene,
572
00:27:49,133 --> 00:27:51,300
put it in a baggie,
and carried it with him
573
00:27:51,302 --> 00:27:55,704
until he had a chance, with
no witnesses, to plant it.
574
00:27:57,474 --> 00:28:01,143
Do you realize how ignorant he sounds?
575
00:28:01,145 --> 00:28:04,780
You have a man that's a famous attorney,
576
00:28:04,782 --> 00:28:07,983
that has made up
everything without a shred
577
00:28:07,985 --> 00:28:10,752
of evidence, and then you have people
578
00:28:10,754 --> 00:28:13,722
hook, line and sinker, go, "Yeah."
579
00:28:13,724 --> 00:28:17,059
I do not for one second believe
580
00:28:17,061 --> 00:28:18,794
there was any sort of conspiracy here.
581
00:28:18,796 --> 00:28:20,963
15 people were at the scene
before Fuhrman got there,
582
00:28:20,965 --> 00:28:23,131
and viewed the left-handed glove.
583
00:28:23,133 --> 00:28:25,734
The right glove was
found behind the bungalow
584
00:28:25,736 --> 00:28:29,237
when he ran into the air
conditioner and dropped it.
585
00:28:29,239 --> 00:28:32,074
Fuhrman would have been
willing to sacrifice
586
00:28:32,076 --> 00:28:35,677
his career and be convicted of a felony
587
00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:37,946
when he didn't know who did it.
588
00:28:37,948 --> 00:28:40,515
And on top of it, there's
absolutely no motivation
589
00:28:40,517 --> 00:28:43,051
for anyone to want to do this.
590
00:28:45,155 --> 00:28:47,990
O.J. had sinned
591
00:28:47,992 --> 00:28:51,493
having a consort, let alone a wife,
592
00:28:51,495 --> 00:28:53,428
of white race.
593
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:56,298
It was a capital offense
in Fuhrman's mind.
594
00:28:56,300 --> 00:29:01,770
So that would justify
to him whatever he did.
595
00:29:01,772 --> 00:29:04,873
And he had come to O.J.'s house,
596
00:29:04,875 --> 00:29:07,042
when Nicole complained to police,
597
00:29:07,044 --> 00:29:10,979
as she often did, that O.J.
was going to beat her up.
598
00:29:10,981 --> 00:29:14,649
When Fuhrman got there,
they sent him home.
599
00:29:14,651 --> 00:29:17,686
No complaint.
600
00:29:17,688 --> 00:29:20,789
I think Mark Fuhrman dwelled on it,
601
00:29:20,791 --> 00:29:24,026
and was inspired by it.
602
00:29:24,028 --> 00:29:26,261
The People call Detective Mark Fuhrman.
603
00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:31,500
Detective Fuhrman, can
you tell us how you feel
604
00:29:31,502 --> 00:29:33,101
about testifying today?
605
00:29:33,904 --> 00:29:35,537
Nervous.
606
00:29:35,539 --> 00:29:37,305
Reluctant.
607
00:29:37,307 --> 00:29:38,974
Will you tell us why?
608
00:29:38,976 --> 00:29:42,744
Since June 13th, it seems that
609
00:29:42,746 --> 00:29:45,480
I've seen a lot of the evidence
610
00:29:45,482 --> 00:29:48,216
ignored, and a lot of personal issues
611
00:29:48,218 --> 00:29:50,218
come to the forefront.
612
00:29:51,688 --> 00:29:53,655
If I don't put him on I basically can't
613
00:29:53,657 --> 00:29:56,324
put the glove into evidence.
614
00:29:56,326 --> 00:29:57,559
And if I don't do that,
it looks like an admission
615
00:29:57,561 --> 00:29:59,995
that it was planted.
616
00:29:59,997 --> 00:30:01,830
So I had no choice.
617
00:30:01,832 --> 00:30:03,565
What did you do next?
618
00:30:03,567 --> 00:30:05,434
I asked Mr. Kaelin if
anything unusual happened
619
00:30:05,436 --> 00:30:07,169
last night.
620
00:30:07,171 --> 00:30:10,072
He said he heard a crash,
or thump on his wall,
621
00:30:10,074 --> 00:30:11,573
he thought there was
going to be an earthquake,
622
00:30:11,575 --> 00:30:12,808
and his picture shook.
623
00:30:14,511 --> 00:30:16,545
He looks confident, he's
tall, he's nice looking,
624
00:30:16,547 --> 00:30:17,312
has nice hair.
625
00:30:18,515 --> 00:30:22,217
He came off as a nice guy to the jury.
626
00:30:22,219 --> 00:30:23,685
I walked out of the driveway,
627
00:30:23,687 --> 00:30:24,719
and I started walking in
the direction going back
628
00:30:24,721 --> 00:30:27,055
towards Kaelin's room.
629
00:30:27,057 --> 00:30:28,723
They had no reason to doubt him.
630
00:30:28,725 --> 00:30:31,259
I continued walking down the path,
631
00:30:31,261 --> 00:30:36,364
and saw what now I identified
as a possible glove.
632
00:30:38,068 --> 00:30:43,939
If he were telling the
truth, that would condemn O.J.
633
00:30:43,941 --> 00:30:45,273
Thank you, Sir, I have nothing further.
634
00:30:46,977 --> 00:30:49,711
Early, early, early on,
635
00:30:49,713 --> 00:30:53,081
Fuhrman had been a witness
636
00:30:53,083 --> 00:30:58,253
that Lee staked out,
and he wanted to take.
637
00:30:58,255 --> 00:31:02,023
I thought it required
to dismantle this guy,
638
00:31:02,025 --> 00:31:03,725
as he should be dismantled,
639
00:31:03,727 --> 00:31:05,794
the work of somebody with a lot
640
00:31:05,796 --> 00:31:09,231
of cross-examination experience.
641
00:31:09,233 --> 00:31:12,134
I was the only one on the
Defense team that fit that bill.
642
00:31:14,505 --> 00:31:15,770
He's one of my heroes.
643
00:31:15,772 --> 00:31:17,472
F. Lee Bailey.
644
00:31:17,474 --> 00:31:18,573
Mr. Bailey, what do you think
645
00:31:18,575 --> 00:31:20,775
Sam Sheppard's chances are of going free?
646
00:31:20,777 --> 00:31:22,410
Sam is free, and he's going to stay
647
00:31:22,412 --> 00:31:26,915
that way and the odds are astronomical.
648
00:31:26,917 --> 00:31:29,584
F. Lee Bailey was one
of the great criminal
649
00:31:29,586 --> 00:31:32,587
advocates of his time, for sure.
650
00:31:32,589 --> 00:31:35,323
He pioneered a lot of,
you know, great techniques
651
00:31:35,325 --> 00:31:37,692
as a criminal defense lawyer.
652
00:31:37,694 --> 00:31:39,661
As far as I'm concerned
right now, Lee Bailey
653
00:31:39,663 --> 00:31:42,797
is the doctor, he's a surgeon,
654
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:45,267
and I do what he tells me.
655
00:31:46,436 --> 00:31:49,838
He was obviously a man of great ability.
656
00:31:52,876 --> 00:31:55,644
Detective Fuhrman, you went out there
657
00:31:55,646 --> 00:31:58,647
in the alley, where
you've never been before.
658
00:31:58,649 --> 00:31:59,781
Yes, I went in that pathway.
659
00:31:59,783 --> 00:32:02,284
You walked there by yourself, correct?
660
00:32:02,286 --> 00:32:04,152
Yes.
661
00:32:04,154 --> 00:32:05,453
You had three detectives, who were armed,
662
00:32:05,455 --> 00:32:08,490
in the house, and didn't tell any of them
663
00:32:08,492 --> 00:32:10,559
where you were going, correct?
664
00:32:10,561 --> 00:32:12,260
That's correct.
665
00:32:13,964 --> 00:32:15,730
The purpose of a
cross-examination is to peel
666
00:32:15,732 --> 00:32:19,968
back the witness' outer skin,
667
00:32:19,970 --> 00:32:22,470
and let the jury see what's underneath.
668
00:32:22,472 --> 00:32:25,407
If it's a saint, you're
going to get buried,
669
00:32:25,409 --> 00:32:27,676
but if it's a Fuhrman,
you'll be making money
670
00:32:27,678 --> 00:32:29,644
every minute of the day.
671
00:32:29,646 --> 00:32:32,647
Didn't it seem strange to you
672
00:32:32,649 --> 00:32:35,417
that after seven and a half hours
673
00:32:35,419 --> 00:32:38,653
that glove still showed
moist, sticky blood,
674
00:32:38,655 --> 00:32:40,522
Detective Fuhrman?
675
00:32:40,524 --> 00:32:41,923
No, I knew nothing at that time
676
00:32:41,925 --> 00:32:43,758
when it was deposited, or left there.
677
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,660
That's seven and a half hours.
678
00:32:45,662 --> 00:32:48,597
That's enough for blood to dry, isn't it?
679
00:32:51,034 --> 00:32:52,834
Under certain conditions,
yes, I'm sure it would be.
680
00:32:52,836 --> 00:32:56,705
Unless it's encased in plastic,
681
00:32:56,707 --> 00:32:59,708
or rubber, and evaporation is stopped.
682
00:32:59,710 --> 00:33:01,643
Wouldn't you agree?
683
00:33:02,179 --> 00:33:04,145
No.
684
00:33:04,948 --> 00:33:08,516
I thought Mark Fuhrman told the truth
685
00:33:08,518 --> 00:33:10,218
about what happened.
686
00:33:10,220 --> 00:33:15,523
But, F. Lee Bailey,
in his brief star turn,
687
00:33:15,525 --> 00:33:18,260
knew how to pin him down.
688
00:33:18,262 --> 00:33:19,628
Detective Fuhrman, when you said
689
00:33:19,630 --> 00:33:21,463
earlier that you were
concerned about matters
690
00:33:21,465 --> 00:33:24,132
that you viewed as irrelevant,
691
00:33:24,134 --> 00:33:26,234
that was about certain language that some
692
00:33:26,236 --> 00:33:27,535
find offensive.
693
00:33:27,537 --> 00:33:29,037
Yes.
694
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:30,438
Okay.
695
00:33:31,541 --> 00:33:34,976
I tried to put my best demeanor forward,
696
00:33:34,978 --> 00:33:37,579
and as professional as I could,
697
00:33:37,581 --> 00:33:40,715
but it was pure survival mode.
698
00:33:40,717 --> 00:33:42,751
Do you use the word nigger
699
00:33:42,753 --> 00:33:44,219
in describing people?
700
00:33:44,221 --> 00:33:46,087
No, sir.
701
00:33:46,089 --> 00:33:49,591
Have you used that word
in the past ten years?
702
00:33:49,593 --> 00:33:52,060
Not that I recall, no.
703
00:33:52,062 --> 00:33:53,928
You mean, if you called someone a nigger,
704
00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:55,830
you have forgotten it?
705
00:33:58,935 --> 00:33:59,768
I'm not sure I can answer that question
706
00:33:59,770 --> 00:34:02,637
the way you phrased it, Sir.
707
00:34:02,639 --> 00:34:05,573
I had a dozen witnesses that would
708
00:34:05,575 --> 00:34:08,076
bury him as a racist,
709
00:34:08,078 --> 00:34:10,245
so I wanted him to lie.
710
00:34:10,247 --> 00:34:12,981
Do you have difficulty
understanding the question?
711
00:34:12,983 --> 00:34:15,150
Yes. I'll rephrase.
712
00:34:15,152 --> 00:34:18,019
I want you to assume
that perhaps at some time,
713
00:34:18,021 --> 00:34:22,157
since 1985 or six, you addressed a member
714
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:25,827
of the African-American race as a nigger.
715
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:27,295
Is it possible that you have forgotten
716
00:34:27,297 --> 00:34:29,497
that act on your part?
717
00:34:29,499 --> 00:34:31,599
No, it's not possible.
718
00:34:31,601 --> 00:34:33,034
No I didn't, yes I did.
719
00:34:33,036 --> 00:34:34,669
Which one's right?
720
00:34:34,671 --> 00:34:36,871
One you're lying, one you're a racist.
721
00:34:36,873 --> 00:34:39,374
I whacked him with it really hard.
722
00:34:39,376 --> 00:34:41,209
In the face.
723
00:34:41,211 --> 00:34:43,378
And you say under oath,
that you have not addressed
724
00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:47,215
any black person as a
nigger or spoken about black
725
00:34:47,217 --> 00:34:50,719
people as niggers in the past
10 years, Detective Fuhrman?
726
00:34:50,721 --> 00:34:52,220
That's what I'm saying, Sir.
727
00:34:52,222 --> 00:34:53,888
So that anyone who comes to this court,
728
00:34:53,890 --> 00:34:56,825
and quotes you as using that word,
729
00:34:56,827 --> 00:34:58,493
in dealing with African-Americans
730
00:34:58,495 --> 00:35:00,528
would be a liar, would
they not, Detective Fuhrman?
731
00:35:00,530 --> 00:35:01,463
Yes, they would.
732
00:35:01,465 --> 00:35:02,497
All of them.
733
00:35:02,499 --> 00:35:03,798
Correct? All of them.
734
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,668
I didn't use that word to people.
735
00:35:06,670 --> 00:35:10,405
Face to face, suspect to police.
736
00:35:12,008 --> 00:35:14,342
Had I ever used the word?
737
00:35:14,344 --> 00:35:16,678
Well, obviously, yes.
738
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,913
That's all I have, Your Honor.
739
00:35:18,915 --> 00:35:21,249
Alright, thank you very
much. You're excused, Sir.
740
00:35:22,652 --> 00:35:27,021
Once Judge Ito allowed
race into this trial,
741
00:35:27,023 --> 00:35:32,394
there was no escaping anything for me.
742
00:35:33,697 --> 00:35:37,832
I had a visceral reaction
to Fuhrman's testimony.
743
00:35:37,834 --> 00:35:43,738
It just didn't seem credible.
744
00:35:43,740 --> 00:35:46,441
Another cop, white cop.
745
00:35:46,443 --> 00:35:48,276
Prejudice, bias.
746
00:35:48,278 --> 00:35:50,345
Watch out.
747
00:35:53,183 --> 00:35:54,582
The way you work around
something like that
748
00:35:54,584 --> 00:35:58,787
is to deal with the
physical objective evidence
749
00:35:58,789 --> 00:36:00,789
that we had.
750
00:36:04,628 --> 00:36:07,295
This was a case about blood.
751
00:36:07,297 --> 00:36:10,965
That was the heart of the case.
752
00:36:11,768 --> 00:36:15,703
Simpson had cuts on his left hand,
753
00:36:15,705 --> 00:36:17,138
particularly on the middle knuckle.
754
00:36:17,140 --> 00:36:18,640
How did you get the injury on your hand?
755
00:36:18,642 --> 00:36:20,975
I don't know.
756
00:36:20,977 --> 00:36:22,777
To the left hand side of the bloody
757
00:36:22,779 --> 00:36:25,547
shoe prints, walking away, there were five
758
00:36:25,549 --> 00:36:27,482
blood drops found.
759
00:36:29,753 --> 00:36:31,820
Those blood drops were tested
760
00:36:31,822 --> 00:36:35,323
through different DNA
analyses, and by different labs,
761
00:36:35,325 --> 00:36:37,725
and it came back to Simpson.
762
00:36:39,663 --> 00:36:42,730
Quite simply, that was Simpson's blood.
763
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:47,168
Inside the Bronco we have Nicole's blood,
764
00:36:47,170 --> 00:36:49,304
we have Ron's blood smeared inside there,
765
00:36:49,306 --> 00:36:51,239
and we have O.J.'s blood.
766
00:36:53,810 --> 00:36:57,078
2.1 miles away from the Bundy crime scene,
767
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,081
we've got blood drops in the driveway,
768
00:37:00,083 --> 00:37:02,550
blood drops inside the house.
769
00:37:04,087 --> 00:37:06,821
The best thing about scientific evidence
770
00:37:06,823 --> 00:37:09,824
is that it's objective,
it doesn't have biases
771
00:37:09,826 --> 00:37:12,093
or prejudices, that's why we concentrated
772
00:37:12,095 --> 00:37:14,329
so much on DNA.
773
00:37:14,331 --> 00:37:18,099
We went to two labs, first
time ever that's been done.
774
00:37:18,101 --> 00:37:20,668
We gave them sample after sample.
775
00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:23,204
We gave the opportunity to prove that
776
00:37:23,206 --> 00:37:26,040
it wasn't O.J. Simpson.
777
00:37:26,042 --> 00:37:28,977
I could have been the
biggest hero, perhaps
778
00:37:28,979 --> 00:37:31,279
in Los Angeles, if not
the country, if I could
779
00:37:31,281 --> 00:37:33,214
have walked into court a week after he'd
780
00:37:33,216 --> 00:37:34,949
been arrested, and said, "Guess what?
781
00:37:34,951 --> 00:37:36,985
It's not O.J. Simpson."
782
00:37:36,987 --> 00:37:40,655
But all the DNA evidence
points to Mr. Simpson
783
00:37:40,657 --> 00:37:44,025
as being the person who
committed those horrible crimes.
784
00:38:06,016 --> 00:38:10,051
I think a lot of people
stayed supportive up until
785
00:38:10,053 --> 00:38:11,119
the DNA.
786
00:38:12,389 --> 00:38:18,326
I was 99.9% sure he was
the killer right then.
787
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:21,896
As the results were coming in,
788
00:38:21,898 --> 00:38:23,431
Mr. Simpson was saying, "Look, you know,
789
00:38:23,433 --> 00:38:25,433
I can't explain it,
790
00:38:25,435 --> 00:38:28,002
but it's not true."
791
00:38:29,172 --> 00:38:31,272
There were six lawyers in court.
792
00:38:31,274 --> 00:38:35,009
Sometimes seven, nine behind the scenes.
793
00:38:35,011 --> 00:38:38,846
There were two lawyers, Barry and Johnnie.
794
00:38:38,848 --> 00:38:41,449
Barry did the science, and Johnnie did
795
00:38:41,451 --> 00:38:43,418
everything else.
796
00:38:43,420 --> 00:38:45,520
And even Barry did everything else.
797
00:38:45,522 --> 00:38:49,290
He had a single minded focus, and purpose,
798
00:38:49,292 --> 00:38:54,929
and he emerged over
the course of the trial
799
00:38:54,931 --> 00:38:57,699
as second chair in the case.
800
00:38:57,701 --> 00:38:59,267
Good morning, Mr. Fung. How are you, Sir?
801
00:38:59,269 --> 00:39:01,736
Morning.
802
00:39:01,738 --> 00:39:04,305
My favorite lawyer was Barry Scheck.
803
00:39:04,307 --> 00:39:06,474
He was the most colorful.
804
00:39:06,476 --> 00:39:08,409
I thought he was brilliant.
805
00:39:08,411 --> 00:39:09,644
Why don't we talk about the envelope
806
00:39:09,646 --> 00:39:11,946
for a minute.
807
00:39:11,948 --> 00:39:13,748
There was a key piece of evidence
808
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:15,917
which was the envelope that Ronald Goldman
809
00:39:15,919 --> 00:39:18,553
was bringing back to Nicole,
810
00:39:18,555 --> 00:39:19,988
and there was some foot impressions
811
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:22,790
in blood on the envelope.
812
00:39:23,994 --> 00:39:28,963
Mr. Fung, when you are collecting an item
813
00:39:28,965 --> 00:39:32,567
which could contain fingerprints,
814
00:39:32,569 --> 00:39:34,135
you would not touch that
item with your bare hand,
815
00:39:34,137 --> 00:39:35,403
would you?
816
00:39:35,405 --> 00:39:37,271
I would try not to.
817
00:39:37,273 --> 00:39:39,907
Well, you say you try not to,
818
00:39:39,909 --> 00:39:41,175
it would be wrong to do that.
819
00:39:41,177 --> 00:39:42,610
Wouldn't it?
820
00:39:42,612 --> 00:39:43,811
Yes.
821
00:39:43,813 --> 00:39:46,180
We had looked at hours and hours and hours
822
00:39:46,182 --> 00:39:49,984
of news footage of Mr.
Fung and Miss Mazzola
823
00:39:49,986 --> 00:39:53,921
picking up items of
evidence at the crime scene.
824
00:39:53,923 --> 00:39:56,658
Did you touch that envelope
with your bare hands
825
00:39:56,660 --> 00:39:58,493
while collecting it, Mr. Fung?
826
00:39:59,596 --> 00:40:01,162
No.
827
00:40:02,198 --> 00:40:03,665
Are you sure of that?
828
00:40:03,667 --> 00:40:05,433
Yes.
829
00:40:05,435 --> 00:40:07,068
I'd like to show you this
piece of videotape, Mr. Fung.
830
00:40:18,314 --> 00:40:21,049
There, there.
831
00:40:21,051 --> 00:40:23,584
How about that, Mr. Fung?
832
00:40:24,721 --> 00:40:26,387
Is that a question, Mr. Scheck?
833
00:40:26,389 --> 00:40:29,157
Yes, how about that picture, Mr. Fung,
834
00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:31,225
does that refresh your recollection
835
00:40:31,227 --> 00:40:33,661
that you took the envelope
from Andrea Mazzola
836
00:40:33,663 --> 00:40:35,730
with your bare hand?
837
00:40:35,732 --> 00:40:37,865
It could be anything.
838
00:40:38,902 --> 00:40:42,003
They called it a Perry Mason moment.
839
00:40:42,005 --> 00:40:43,071
You know, it was just a good impeachment
840
00:40:43,073 --> 00:40:44,839
of the witness but in some ways it really
841
00:40:44,841 --> 00:40:47,408
encapsulated the problem that they'd used
842
00:40:47,410 --> 00:40:49,744
terrible methods in terms of gathering
843
00:40:49,746 --> 00:40:51,913
this evidence and potentially
cross-contaminating
844
00:40:51,915 --> 00:40:54,015
it and destroying it, just very precious
845
00:40:54,017 --> 00:40:57,051
crime scene evidence.
846
00:40:57,053 --> 00:40:59,220
I found that the specimen
handling procedures
847
00:40:59,222 --> 00:41:02,490
were done in such a manner that there's
848
00:41:02,492 --> 00:41:04,192
a tremendous risk of the potential
849
00:41:04,194 --> 00:41:06,728
of cross contamination.
850
00:41:08,031 --> 00:41:09,030
Something we'd never do unless you
851
00:41:09,032 --> 00:41:11,232
absolutely have to is cover a body because
852
00:41:11,234 --> 00:41:13,468
of contamination.
853
00:41:14,738 --> 00:41:15,937
A sheet was over the body.
854
00:41:15,939 --> 00:41:17,271
You recall seeing that?
855
00:41:17,273 --> 00:41:18,773
I believe it was a blanket, yes.
856
00:41:18,775 --> 00:41:21,576
Do you know where that blanket came from?
857
00:41:21,578 --> 00:41:23,778
I believe the inside of the house.
858
00:41:23,780 --> 00:41:25,680
And can you tell us,
Detective, who took this
859
00:41:25,682 --> 00:41:27,949
blanket out and put it
over the body, who did that?
860
00:41:27,951 --> 00:41:29,250
I did.
861
00:41:30,253 --> 00:41:32,120
You have to make some decisions
862
00:41:32,122 --> 00:41:34,055
to protect the evidence.
863
00:41:34,057 --> 00:41:36,023
Cameras were looking right down
864
00:41:36,025 --> 00:41:38,593
on the crime scene, all
the evidence, the bodies.
865
00:41:39,963 --> 00:41:43,131
As a general principle as a criminalist,
866
00:41:43,133 --> 00:41:47,969
you try at all costs to
avoid taking an object
867
00:41:47,971 --> 00:41:50,204
that could have lots of
hairs and fibers on it,
868
00:41:50,206 --> 00:41:52,740
and putting it right
into the middle of a crime
869
00:41:52,742 --> 00:41:54,475
scene, don't you?
870
00:41:54,477 --> 00:41:55,476
That's correct.
871
00:41:55,478 --> 00:41:57,211
That's a terrible mistake
872
00:41:57,213 --> 00:41:59,480
from the point of view of
a criminalist, isn't it?
873
00:42:01,251 --> 00:42:03,317
Yes.
874
00:42:03,319 --> 00:42:05,286
Over the past few days,
the defense has chipped
875
00:42:05,288 --> 00:42:09,957
away at the growing presumption
of O.J. Simpson's guilt.
876
00:42:09,959 --> 00:42:10,925
The way evidence was collected, the way
877
00:42:10,927 --> 00:42:12,226
it was processed, the way it was stored
878
00:42:12,228 --> 00:42:14,962
gave rise to reasonable
question as to whether
879
00:42:14,964 --> 00:42:17,498
something wrong could've happened.
880
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:19,133
You did not change gloves
881
00:42:19,135 --> 00:42:22,303
between the collection
of each sample, did you?
882
00:42:22,305 --> 00:42:24,505
Not that I can recall, no.
883
00:42:24,507 --> 00:42:28,142
Dennis Fung was a definite weak link.
884
00:42:28,144 --> 00:42:30,077
This kid, he tries, okay?
885
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:32,146
They ripped him up terribly.
886
00:42:32,148 --> 00:42:35,750
On July 3rd, you saw blood
887
00:42:35,752 --> 00:42:39,587
on the gate that you collected.
888
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:41,322
Yes.
889
00:42:41,324 --> 00:42:45,726
Let's look back at the picture
of the gate on June 13th.
890
00:42:50,667 --> 00:42:52,667
Where is it, Mr. Fung?
891
00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:59,507
I can't see it in the pic... photograph.
892
00:42:59,509 --> 00:43:02,376
We don't know what happened to that blood.
893
00:43:02,378 --> 00:43:04,979
All I know is when I was listening,
894
00:43:04,981 --> 00:43:07,215
they was saying they took a picture where
895
00:43:07,217 --> 00:43:10,151
there wasn't no blood on the back gate.
896
00:43:10,153 --> 00:43:12,887
And then a month later,
there was some blood.
897
00:43:15,525 --> 00:43:17,458
Why it didn't get picked up, why it didn't
898
00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:21,829
get collected, difficult to explain.
899
00:43:21,831 --> 00:43:23,731
In the fog of war, people on the scene
900
00:43:23,733 --> 00:43:28,069
and all the activity going on around it,
901
00:43:28,071 --> 00:43:30,037
things get missed.
902
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,240
It is my opinion
903
00:43:32,242 --> 00:43:35,810
that, that the bloodstain contained EDTA.
904
00:43:35,812 --> 00:43:37,511
EDTA is a preservative that was added
905
00:43:37,513 --> 00:43:39,480
to the blood samples taken from Simpson,
906
00:43:39,482 --> 00:43:42,316
and the victims, and if EDTA is present
907
00:43:42,318 --> 00:43:44,552
on the evidence, the
Defense says the blood
908
00:43:44,554 --> 00:43:47,255
may have been planted.
909
00:43:47,257 --> 00:43:49,257
In your blood right
now there is a low level
910
00:43:49,259 --> 00:43:51,392
of EDTA, because it's
in everything you eat,
911
00:43:51,394 --> 00:43:54,528
it's in the laundry
detergent, it's everywhere.
912
00:43:54,530 --> 00:43:57,498
You're going to find EDTA
no matter what you do.
913
00:43:57,500 --> 00:43:59,233
But the defense is
trying to insinuate that
914
00:43:59,235 --> 00:44:01,502
somebody took the blood
that had been drawn
915
00:44:01,504 --> 00:44:03,571
from Simpson's arm,
and took that test tube,
916
00:44:03,573 --> 00:44:06,340
and sprinkled it all over the crime scene.
917
00:44:06,342 --> 00:44:08,075
And it's ridiculous.
918
00:44:09,178 --> 00:44:13,014
When you took O.J.'s blood sample,
919
00:44:13,016 --> 00:44:15,283
you were at a place called Parker Center?
920
00:44:15,285 --> 00:44:16,250
Yes, sir.
921
00:44:16,252 --> 00:44:18,519
What type of security did you use
922
00:44:18,521 --> 00:44:20,388
for that blood vial?
923
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:24,191
I placed it in a manila envelope,
924
00:44:24,193 --> 00:44:26,027
maintained control of
it, and hand-delivered
925
00:44:26,029 --> 00:44:27,762
it to the criminalist.
926
00:44:27,764 --> 00:44:29,397
Where was the criminalist?
927
00:44:29,399 --> 00:44:30,932
At Rockingham.
928
00:44:31,801 --> 00:44:34,268
You're bringing the suspect's blood
929
00:44:34,270 --> 00:44:38,306
back to a crime scene where
we're collecting blood?
930
00:44:38,308 --> 00:44:40,775
Really?
931
00:44:40,777 --> 00:44:43,477
How many times have you taken blood
932
00:44:43,479 --> 00:44:47,782
from Parker Center out to a crime scene?
933
00:44:56,225 --> 00:44:58,893
I don't know, this may
have been the first time.
934
00:44:58,895 --> 00:45:00,394
I don't know.
935
00:45:00,396 --> 00:45:02,129
I can't recall right now any other times
936
00:45:02,131 --> 00:45:04,065
that I've done that.
937
00:45:06,436 --> 00:45:08,569
If you're a juror who has
grown up in Los Angeles,
938
00:45:08,571 --> 00:45:10,304
and spent your whole life
hearing that the L.A.P.D.
939
00:45:10,306 --> 00:45:13,307
is capable of doing
anything to a Black person,
940
00:45:13,309 --> 00:45:18,579
and you hear that, you've
just been handed some doubt.
941
00:45:18,581 --> 00:45:21,582
When did we start carrying
blood in our pocket?
942
00:45:21,584 --> 00:45:25,653
When did our SID lab stop wearing gloves?
943
00:45:25,655 --> 00:45:29,423
When did we not book
stuff in a timely fashion?
944
00:45:29,425 --> 00:45:31,425
That... there's no rationale for that.
945
00:45:31,427 --> 00:45:34,161
We had a, I think, a
pretty good demonstrative
946
00:45:34,163 --> 00:45:36,263
of a black box.
947
00:45:36,265 --> 00:45:38,165
The idea was that certain
crime scene evidence
948
00:45:38,167 --> 00:45:41,769
came in and the black
box was the L.A.P.D.,
949
00:45:41,771 --> 00:45:44,171
and the way they handled the evidence,
950
00:45:44,173 --> 00:45:45,539
and on the other side were all the results
951
00:45:45,541 --> 00:45:48,542
from Cellmark, the F.B.I.,
the DNA laboratories.
952
00:45:48,544 --> 00:45:51,445
It was pretty simple
when you broke it down.
953
00:45:51,447 --> 00:45:53,314
Garbage in, garbage out.
954
00:45:53,316 --> 00:45:54,782
I mean, you cannot go back and say,
955
00:45:54,784 --> 00:45:56,484
"Well, maybe they planted
evidence on the glove,
956
00:45:56,486 --> 00:46:00,054
maybe on the back gate,
oh, there's blood missing."
957
00:46:00,056 --> 00:46:01,155
Big deal.
958
00:46:01,157 --> 00:46:02,923
How can that be a big deal?
959
00:46:02,925 --> 00:46:05,559
Scheck was very disingenuous.
960
00:46:05,561 --> 00:46:10,398
I mean, EDTA, missing blood, coincidence?
961
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:11,966
Corroboration.
962
00:46:11,968 --> 00:46:14,335
Something is terribly wrong.
963
00:46:14,337 --> 00:46:16,804
It was absolute nonsense.
964
00:46:16,806 --> 00:46:18,072
You believe that that blood was
965
00:46:18,074 --> 00:46:20,174
planted by the L.A.P.D.?
966
00:46:20,176 --> 00:46:23,644
You know, it's not my job to believe,
967
00:46:23,646 --> 00:46:25,046
or not believe.
968
00:46:25,048 --> 00:46:28,549
Could the police officers in Los Angeles
969
00:46:28,551 --> 00:46:31,152
have planted evidence against Mr. Simpson
970
00:46:31,154 --> 00:46:36,057
in this case to improve
their chances of winning?
971
00:46:36,059 --> 00:46:37,758
You know, there was
certainly good evidence
972
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,095
to support that hypothesis.
973
00:46:42,031 --> 00:46:44,665
Barry Scheck really was an expert.
974
00:46:44,667 --> 00:46:46,333
Can you remember the whole business
975
00:46:46,335 --> 00:46:48,436
about development length and the notion
976
00:46:48,438 --> 00:46:50,271
of controls failing?
977
00:46:50,273 --> 00:46:53,040
He knew that so much of
what he was trying to show
978
00:46:53,042 --> 00:46:55,409
with these witnesses was just garbage.
979
00:46:55,411 --> 00:46:57,678
Mr. Yamauchi opened up the reference tube
980
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,548
in the morning and spilled out the blood.
981
00:47:00,550 --> 00:47:02,016
It was unethical.
982
00:47:02,018 --> 00:47:04,251
He argued things he knew were not true,
983
00:47:04,253 --> 00:47:05,953
he knew could not be true.
984
00:47:05,955 --> 00:47:08,422
The most likely and probable inference
985
00:47:08,424 --> 00:47:12,293
is the one that is not for the
timid or the faint of heart.
986
00:47:12,295 --> 00:47:16,464
Somebody played with this evidence.
987
00:47:16,466 --> 00:47:18,966
And there's no doubt about it.
988
00:47:19,802 --> 00:47:21,936
Just so I'm clear,
989
00:47:21,938 --> 00:47:23,437
you believe that all the blood evidence
990
00:47:23,439 --> 00:47:25,473
in the case...
991
00:47:25,475 --> 00:47:27,274
You know, you're asking me
this question, do I believe...
992
00:47:27,276 --> 00:47:28,976
Think, you know,
993
00:47:28,978 --> 00:47:34,815
is not the, because you're...
994
00:47:36,786 --> 00:47:41,489
the, as you know from
meticulously researching
995
00:47:41,491 --> 00:47:44,158
this case, and this
has been written about,
996
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,295
we presented, you know, sound arguments
997
00:47:48,297 --> 00:47:51,232
and evidence to explain
each piece of this evidence,
998
00:47:51,234 --> 00:47:53,701
and how it got there.
999
00:47:54,737 --> 00:47:58,005
You know, I'm not omniscient.
1000
00:47:58,007 --> 00:48:00,407
Do you think you did
what you needed to do?
1001
00:48:00,409 --> 00:48:02,676
I did the best I could.
1002
00:48:02,678 --> 00:48:04,979
It's the best defense money can buy,
1003
00:48:04,981 --> 00:48:07,648
and that's very expensive.
1004
00:48:07,650 --> 00:48:12,319
For O.J. Simpson, an
estimated 50,000 dollars a day.
1005
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,668
O.J. had money to spend,
1006
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:30,137
and a willingness to spend it
1007
00:48:30,139 --> 00:48:32,306
on his own defense.
1008
00:48:32,308 --> 00:48:35,176
This was the first for me.
1009
00:48:35,178 --> 00:48:37,845
Zillionaires, one of a kind.
1010
00:48:39,515 --> 00:48:43,217
He'd been in jail two or three days, tops.
1011
00:48:43,219 --> 00:48:45,052
The first thing he wanted
to do is to make sure
1012
00:48:45,054 --> 00:48:47,555
that we started marketing
and merchandising
1013
00:48:47,557 --> 00:48:49,723
and generating a lot of money.
1014
00:49:00,002 --> 00:49:03,003
Because O.J. was not
convicted of any crime,
1015
00:49:03,005 --> 00:49:06,073
and autographs was his normal business,
1016
00:49:07,043 --> 00:49:11,712
he was allowed to still
sign autographs in jail.
1017
00:49:11,714 --> 00:49:14,248
Rather than taking a jersey into the jail
1018
00:49:14,250 --> 00:49:16,817
to be signed, he would take a number in,
1019
00:49:16,819 --> 00:49:19,053
like this, he would sign the number,
1020
00:49:19,055 --> 00:49:20,254
and then the number would be put
1021
00:49:20,256 --> 00:49:22,389
onto a jersey like this.
1022
00:49:22,391 --> 00:49:24,425
Rather than being able to
take in a whole football,
1023
00:49:24,427 --> 00:49:26,093
would take in a panel.
1024
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:29,563
He would sign the panel,
then the panel would be
1025
00:49:29,565 --> 00:49:32,233
sent in to the company,
1026
00:49:32,235 --> 00:49:34,134
then you'd have a football.
1027
00:49:35,571 --> 00:49:38,539
I'm not sure what drove the market,
1028
00:49:38,541 --> 00:49:41,141
but it was driven.
1029
00:49:42,178 --> 00:49:44,078
It was nonstop.
1030
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,247
There were times he'd sit there,
1031
00:49:46,249 --> 00:49:49,016
and go through 2500 cards.
1032
00:49:49,018 --> 00:49:53,520
And then say, "Okay, so
2500 cards times 25 dollars."
1033
00:49:53,522 --> 00:49:55,289
He'd run the math.
1034
00:49:55,291 --> 00:49:57,958
And he said, "Not bad."
1035
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,129
He sat in jail, we did
three million dollars
1036
00:50:02,131 --> 00:50:04,098
in autographs.
1037
00:50:05,468 --> 00:50:09,136
It just went and went and went.
1038
00:50:09,138 --> 00:50:11,238
There was no end.
1039
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:12,773
Photos of he and Johnnie Cochran
1040
00:50:12,775 --> 00:50:15,209
that he and Johnnie signed.
1041
00:50:15,211 --> 00:50:16,310
That's probably the only item that
1042
00:50:16,312 --> 00:50:18,479
I did it, and I'd look
back, and I thought,
1043
00:50:18,481 --> 00:50:22,950
"Man, this sucks, I can't
believe we did this."
1044
00:50:22,952 --> 00:50:25,452
The Goldmans were screaming,
1045
00:50:25,454 --> 00:50:29,490
but you're innocent until convicted.
1046
00:50:51,514 --> 00:50:54,315
What was found on the glove at Rockingham?
1047
00:50:54,317 --> 00:50:57,017
Simpson's blood, Nicole's
blood, Ron's blood.
1048
00:50:58,954 --> 00:51:00,921
That glove is now tied into three people,
1049
00:51:00,923 --> 00:51:03,257
that can only intersect
when they're bleeding.
1050
00:51:03,259 --> 00:51:05,592
That might be a time frame
that might be a little
1051
00:51:05,594 --> 00:51:08,929
difficult to put together, unless you are
1052
00:51:08,931 --> 00:51:12,132
killing two people and cutting yourself.
1053
00:51:12,134 --> 00:51:13,467
Whoever wore that glove
1054
00:51:13,469 --> 00:51:15,035
killed those people?
1055
00:51:15,037 --> 00:51:17,004
Yes.
1056
00:51:17,006 --> 00:51:19,206
I'd like to show you a pair of gloves.
1057
00:51:20,643 --> 00:51:24,812
Showing you People's 164A.
1058
00:51:24,814 --> 00:51:27,948
That is an Aris Leather Light glove
1059
00:51:27,950 --> 00:51:31,051
that was an exclusive
glove for Bloomingdale's.
1060
00:51:31,053 --> 00:51:32,686
And what is the size?
1061
00:51:32,688 --> 00:51:36,223
Size is extra large.
1062
00:51:37,226 --> 00:51:38,158
Is that a Bloomingdale's credit card
1063
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:39,526
sales receipt?
1064
00:51:39,528 --> 00:51:40,661
Yes.
1065
00:51:40,663 --> 00:51:41,795
And is there a signature
1066
00:51:41,797 --> 00:51:43,330
on the credit card receipt?
1067
00:51:43,332 --> 00:51:44,665
Yes.
1068
00:51:44,667 --> 00:51:45,332
Can you read that signature to us?
1069
00:51:45,334 --> 00:51:47,368
Nicole Brown.
1070
00:51:51,073 --> 00:51:54,241
It was later in the afternoon, and
1071
00:51:54,243 --> 00:51:56,043
the person they had giving the testimony
1072
00:51:56,045 --> 00:51:57,644
regarding the glove.
1073
00:51:57,646 --> 00:51:59,413
Wait, may I try this on?
1074
00:51:59,415 --> 00:52:02,249
You could see where it was leading up to.
1075
00:52:02,251 --> 00:52:03,650
So, this is an extra large glove?
1076
00:52:03,652 --> 00:52:05,152
Yes.
1077
00:52:05,154 --> 00:52:07,521
Extra large is kind of small?
1078
00:52:07,523 --> 00:52:08,956
No, but they stretch.
1079
00:52:10,426 --> 00:52:12,393
Obviously, it was too big.
1080
00:52:14,196 --> 00:52:17,731
At 24 years old I could
see this is a trick.
1081
00:52:17,733 --> 00:52:20,534
Don't fall for it.
1082
00:52:20,536 --> 00:52:23,303
We can see that that
glove is big on his hand.
1083
00:52:25,841 --> 00:52:28,142
You don't have to do anything.
1084
00:52:30,780 --> 00:52:35,115
That afternoon I got a call from Marcia,
1085
00:52:35,117 --> 00:52:36,683
basically affirming the
game plan, "We're not
1086
00:52:36,685 --> 00:52:38,786
trying the glove on, right?"
1087
00:52:38,788 --> 00:52:41,121
There's too much of a gamble here.
1088
00:52:41,123 --> 00:52:45,025
It's shrunk, he's probably
been working out his hand,
1089
00:52:45,027 --> 00:52:46,994
absolutely not.
1090
00:52:48,297 --> 00:52:50,898
I went over to him, and said, "Chris,
1091
00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:53,066
you know you're a good
shit, but you've got the balls
1092
00:52:53,068 --> 00:52:55,469
of a stud fieldmouse.
1093
00:52:55,471 --> 00:52:57,204
That glove won't fit
O.J., and if you don't
1094
00:52:57,206 --> 00:53:01,308
show the jury that,
be it the fact, I will."
1095
00:53:01,310 --> 00:53:03,944
Chris says, "I want to do it."
1096
00:53:03,946 --> 00:53:06,747
And I told him in no uncertain terms why
1097
00:53:06,749 --> 00:53:09,216
we should not be doing this,
1098
00:53:09,218 --> 00:53:10,784
and he said, "Well, if
we don't, they will."
1099
00:53:10,786 --> 00:53:11,919
And I said, "Then let them, let them.
1100
00:53:11,921 --> 00:53:14,721
And we can show why it was a bullshit
1101
00:53:14,723 --> 00:53:16,089
experiment, it was never going to work,
1102
00:53:16,091 --> 00:53:18,158
between the shrinkage and the latex,
1103
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:19,560
it's never going to fit him the same way.
1104
00:53:19,562 --> 00:53:21,428
Don't do this.
1105
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:23,664
Don't do this."
1106
00:53:23,666 --> 00:53:26,066
It was the biggest fight
Chris and I ever had.
1107
00:53:26,068 --> 00:53:28,502
Darden, I think felt,
"You know, I've been pushed
1108
00:53:28,504 --> 00:53:30,571
around in this courtroom
enough, I've been made
1109
00:53:30,573 --> 00:53:32,806
to feel small."
1110
00:53:32,808 --> 00:53:37,144
You could see the disaster coming.
1111
00:53:40,749 --> 00:53:43,650
There's a camera to our right.
1112
00:53:43,652 --> 00:53:45,419
Watching everything.
1113
00:53:45,421 --> 00:53:48,322
Johnnie comes back from sidebar, and says,
1114
00:53:48,324 --> 00:53:53,760
"Okay guys, they're going to
ask O.J. to try on the gloves.
1115
00:53:53,762 --> 00:53:58,165
I don't want anyone to react."
1116
00:53:58,167 --> 00:53:59,466
We've been rejoined by all the members
1117
00:53:59,468 --> 00:54:01,134
of our jury panel.
1118
00:54:01,136 --> 00:54:02,302
Mr. Darden, do you have
any further questions
1119
00:54:02,304 --> 00:54:03,470
of Mr. Rubin?
1120
00:54:03,472 --> 00:54:05,772
Just a few, Your Honor.
1121
00:54:09,478 --> 00:54:11,144
Your Honor, at this
time, the People would ask
1122
00:54:11,146 --> 00:54:15,148
that Mr. Simpson step
forward and try on the glove
1123
00:54:15,150 --> 00:54:16,817
recovered at Bundy, as
well as the glove recovered
1124
00:54:16,819 --> 00:54:18,886
at Rockingham.
1125
00:54:20,456 --> 00:54:23,557
He can do that seated there.
1126
00:54:23,559 --> 00:54:26,460
You could hear a pin drop.
1127
00:54:26,462 --> 00:54:29,530
O.J. was initially seated,
1128
00:54:29,532 --> 00:54:31,965
putting on the first glove.
1129
00:54:31,967 --> 00:54:34,535
I'm handing Mr. Simpson the left glove
1130
00:54:34,537 --> 00:54:36,603
from Rockingham.
1131
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,908
And right when it was
clear it did not fit,
1132
00:54:40,910 --> 00:54:44,578
O.J. goes into Naked Gun mode.
1133
00:54:45,881 --> 00:54:48,815
He stands up, and shows his hand,
1134
00:54:48,817 --> 00:54:51,785
and that's when he's now, "Okay."
1135
00:54:58,827 --> 00:55:01,562
The guy's an actor, for God sakes.
1136
00:55:01,564 --> 00:55:04,498
He's playing to 50 million people.
1137
00:55:11,774 --> 00:55:14,508
Alright, records reflect Mr. Simpson has
1138
00:55:14,510 --> 00:55:16,710
both gloves.
1139
00:55:16,712 --> 00:55:18,712
What was he going to do?
1140
00:55:18,714 --> 00:55:20,948
Make a good faith effort with plastic
1141
00:55:20,950 --> 00:55:22,382
over his hands?
1142
00:55:22,384 --> 00:55:23,784
Alright, will you show that to the jury,
1143
00:55:23,786 --> 00:55:25,719
Mr. Simpson, and the (inaudible)
1144
00:55:25,721 --> 00:55:28,789
The whole thing was so wildly inconceived,
1145
00:55:28,791 --> 00:55:34,027
so totally inappropriate,
so doomed to failure.
1146
00:55:34,029 --> 00:55:37,030
The idea that Chris Darden would do this.
1147
00:55:37,032 --> 00:55:41,068
Mr. Darden, would you wrap it up, please?
1148
00:55:41,070 --> 00:55:45,272
I looked at him like, "I
can't believe you did it.
1149
00:55:45,274 --> 00:55:46,974
You let him play you.
1150
00:55:48,444 --> 00:55:51,044
You are the weaker one."
1151
00:55:52,648 --> 00:55:54,982
And you didn't have to be.
1152
00:55:56,151 --> 00:55:58,752
You just take the gloves,
1153
00:55:58,754 --> 00:56:01,154
you take both attorneys,
1154
00:56:01,156 --> 00:56:02,956
and the deputy, and the suspect,
1155
00:56:02,958 --> 00:56:04,758
and you go into chambers.
1156
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,761
And you do it on the record in chambers.
1157
00:56:07,763 --> 00:56:11,064
You don't do it with latex underneath.
1158
00:56:11,066 --> 00:56:13,133
My grandson couldn't have
gotten into those gloves
1159
00:56:13,135 --> 00:56:14,701
with latex underneath.
1160
00:56:15,771 --> 00:56:16,503
Did you observe the
manner in which Mr. Simpson
1161
00:56:16,505 --> 00:56:18,405
put the gloves on today?
1162
00:56:18,407 --> 00:56:19,740
Yes, I did.
1163
00:56:19,742 --> 00:56:20,774
You've seen people put
gloves on in the past.
1164
00:56:20,776 --> 00:56:22,643
Yes, I have.
1165
00:56:22,645 --> 00:56:24,244
Did he put the gloves on in a manner
1166
00:56:24,246 --> 00:56:25,912
consistent with what
you've seen other people...
1167
00:56:25,914 --> 00:56:27,247
Objection, your honor...
1168
00:56:27,249 --> 00:56:29,983
Sustained. The jury observed
1169
00:56:29,985 --> 00:56:31,952
what happened.
1170
00:56:31,954 --> 00:56:34,554
It made the prosecution look silly.
1171
00:56:35,791 --> 00:56:37,090
Anything unusual about the way
1172
00:56:37,092 --> 00:56:38,191
Mr. Simpson put the
gloves on, based on your
1173
00:56:38,193 --> 00:56:40,093
experience?
1174
00:56:40,095 --> 00:56:41,261
Object, Your Honor.
1175
00:56:41,263 --> 00:56:43,463
Sustained.
1176
00:56:43,465 --> 00:56:45,332
I felt sorry for him.
1177
00:56:46,168 --> 00:56:47,868
Because he looked weak.
1178
00:56:47,870 --> 00:56:50,437
I have nothing further.
1179
00:56:52,441 --> 00:56:56,043
This was the definition of the trial
1180
00:56:56,045 --> 00:56:57,511
lawyer's mistake.
1181
00:56:57,513 --> 00:56:59,780
Don't ask a question to which you don't
1182
00:56:59,782 --> 00:57:01,982
know the answer.
1183
00:57:01,984 --> 00:57:04,117
He didn't know whether that glove fit.
1184
00:57:06,021 --> 00:57:08,188
Chris honestly felt that he would have
1185
00:57:08,190 --> 00:57:10,524
a dramatic courtroom
moment by demonstrating
1186
00:57:10,526 --> 00:57:13,326
the gloves fit.
1187
00:57:13,328 --> 00:57:16,329
It was an intuitive move on his part,
1188
00:57:16,331 --> 00:57:18,699
and it was a mistake.
1189
00:57:18,701 --> 00:57:21,001
Had O.J. never put that glove on,
1190
00:57:21,003 --> 00:57:23,036
I would have assumed that it fit.
1191
00:57:23,038 --> 00:57:25,138
I saw how big it was.
1192
00:57:26,075 --> 00:57:29,142
And that's when I just
knew that, you know,
1193
00:57:29,144 --> 00:57:30,744
why is this guy here?
1194
00:57:30,746 --> 00:57:32,979
He's ruining this case.
1195
00:57:34,683 --> 00:57:37,017
Outside of Perry Mason,
what could be more dramatic
1196
00:57:37,019 --> 00:57:39,986
than O.J. Simpson showing the jury
1197
00:57:39,988 --> 00:57:42,889
that the killer's gloves don't fit.
1198
00:57:42,891 --> 00:57:44,391
Prosecutorial attempts at damage control
1199
00:57:44,393 --> 00:57:47,961
might not be able to undermine
the power of that image.
1200
00:57:51,767 --> 00:57:53,900
The funny thing about the glove,
1201
00:57:53,902 --> 00:57:56,203
he didn't want to put them on.
1202
00:57:56,205 --> 00:57:57,704
I said, "Look, if you're
worried about the gloves
1203
00:57:57,706 --> 00:57:59,673
fitting or not fitting, just
don't take your arthritis
1204
00:57:59,675 --> 00:58:02,909
medicine, no big deal."
1205
00:58:02,911 --> 00:58:06,046
And he said, "Mike, my
hands would hurt like hell."
1206
00:58:06,048 --> 00:58:08,115
And I said, "Why would
they hurt like hell?"
1207
00:58:08,117 --> 00:58:10,550
And he, and you could just see the light
1208
00:58:10,552 --> 00:58:14,221
click, you know, just, ah,
hands would get swollen,
1209
00:58:14,223 --> 00:58:16,256
and couldn't bend his knuckles.
1210
00:58:16,258 --> 00:58:20,026
So, he didn't take arthritis
medicine for like two weeks.
1211
00:58:20,028 --> 00:58:21,528
Do you think that made a difference?
1212
00:58:21,530 --> 00:58:24,731
Well, he couldn't bend his hands.
1213
00:58:24,733 --> 00:58:26,533
You tell me.
1214
00:58:36,078 --> 00:58:39,446
One day a friend of O.J.'s,
Alan Austin, came up to me,
1215
00:58:39,448 --> 00:58:42,983
and he said, "Answer a question for me.
1216
00:58:44,052 --> 00:58:46,987
What would Mark Fuhrman have to know
1217
00:58:46,989 --> 00:58:49,990
before he placed the glove there?"
1218
00:58:51,426 --> 00:58:55,862
Well, I don't know.
1219
00:58:57,166 --> 00:58:58,665
He said, "He would have to know that
1220
00:58:58,667 --> 00:59:02,302
Orenthal James Simpson,
a six foot two and a half
1221
00:59:02,304 --> 00:59:06,006
black guy living in a
white world had no alibi.
1222
00:59:08,744 --> 00:59:11,178
He was in no woman's bed,
1223
00:59:11,180 --> 00:59:14,014
he was in no restaurant,
1224
00:59:14,016 --> 00:59:18,985
he was on no airplane, he had no alibi.
1225
00:59:18,987 --> 00:59:22,789
So how could Mark
Fuhrman place that glove
1226
00:59:22,791 --> 00:59:25,992
if he didn't know that?"
1227
00:59:25,994 --> 00:59:30,597
And I said, "Are you
telling me he's guilty?"
1228
00:59:32,668 --> 00:59:35,435
And Alan just nodded.
1229
00:59:35,437 --> 00:59:38,138
And the tears were streaming down my face.
1230
00:59:38,140 --> 00:59:42,709
And suddenly, I felt cuckolded.
1231
00:59:42,711 --> 00:59:45,045
Because I'm telling you if O.J. had put
1232
00:59:45,047 --> 00:59:47,047
his face up to the glass to me, and said,
1233
00:59:47,049 --> 00:59:49,983
"Something happened, and I just snapped,
1234
00:59:49,985 --> 00:59:52,953
and I went crazy."
1235
00:59:53,956 --> 00:59:57,524
I would've defended and forgiven him.
1236
00:59:58,894 --> 01:00:00,894
When he put his face next to the glass,
1237
01:00:00,896 --> 01:00:05,165
and said, "I swear to
God I didn't do this,"
1238
01:00:05,167 --> 01:00:07,200
and then it suddenly looked like he did,
1239
01:00:07,202 --> 01:00:11,171
I got angry, I felt
wounded, I felt betrayed.
1240
01:00:11,173 --> 01:00:14,507
I know it sounds naive,
I know it sounds stupid,
1241
01:00:14,509 --> 01:00:18,612
it just didn't occur to
me that he could do that.
1242
01:00:23,986 --> 01:00:27,020
Dr. Golden dictating autopsy case
1243
01:00:27,022 --> 01:00:32,092
94-05136, autopsy on Nicole Brown Simpson.
1244
01:00:34,062 --> 01:00:37,397
Having studied the crime scene,
1245
01:00:39,167 --> 01:00:41,735
I believe that Nicole
had come out of the house
1246
01:00:41,737 --> 01:00:44,070
expecting Ron Goldman.
1247
01:00:47,509 --> 01:00:51,778
She encountered O.J., then
she was quickly subdued.
1248
01:00:51,780 --> 01:00:54,180
There was evidence of blunt force trauma
1249
01:00:54,182 --> 01:00:57,217
near the crown of her
head, possibly consistent,
1250
01:00:57,219 --> 01:01:00,220
per the testimony of
the coroner with having
1251
01:01:00,222 --> 01:01:02,722
been struck by the butt end of the knife.
1252
01:01:02,724 --> 01:01:05,892
Scalp bruised, right parietal.
1253
01:01:05,894 --> 01:01:08,128
I believe she went down.
1254
01:01:10,899 --> 01:01:13,300
Four stab wounds, three deep, one shallow
1255
01:01:13,302 --> 01:01:16,036
were inflicted upon the
left side of her neck.
1256
01:01:17,039 --> 01:01:20,807
Her head was on the
first step above the lower
1257
01:01:20,809 --> 01:01:23,977
pavement level where
the rest of her body was.
1258
01:01:26,415 --> 01:01:29,082
I believe that Ron
Goldman came upon the scene
1259
01:01:29,084 --> 01:01:31,584
after Nicole had been subdued.
1260
01:01:31,586 --> 01:01:35,322
As Ron came upon Nicole,
as he moved forward,
1261
01:01:35,324 --> 01:01:40,260
to the fallen Nicole, O.J.
grabbed Ron from behind,
1262
01:01:40,262 --> 01:01:43,229
and probably had the knife at his throat.
1263
01:01:43,231 --> 01:01:48,268
Simpson's left hand was
perhaps around Ron's chest,
1264
01:01:48,270 --> 01:01:50,470
and in the course of
short exchange, which could
1265
01:01:50,472 --> 01:01:52,005
have include some sort of taunting,
1266
01:01:52,007 --> 01:01:55,976
Simpson poked Ron in the right cheek
1267
01:01:55,978 --> 01:01:58,645
five times, and then drew the knife blade
1268
01:01:58,647 --> 01:02:02,015
twice across his throat.
1269
01:02:02,017 --> 01:02:04,951
I suspect Ron, in an
effort to free himself
1270
01:02:04,953 --> 01:02:06,786
from Simpson's grasp, went to the hand
1271
01:02:06,788 --> 01:02:10,490
that was controlling
him, Simpson's left hand,
1272
01:02:10,492 --> 01:02:12,158
grabbed it, pulled it and
probably in the process
1273
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,494
wrenched the glove from Simpson's hand,
1274
01:02:14,496 --> 01:02:19,632
hence the left hand glove
being found in the foliage.
1275
01:02:19,634 --> 01:02:22,002
And then Ron turned with his back inside
1276
01:02:22,004 --> 01:02:25,939
the security bars at
the foot of the stairs,
1277
01:02:25,941 --> 01:02:28,041
it was in effect a killing cage.
1278
01:02:28,977 --> 01:02:34,047
Ron had bars to his left, bars behind him,
1279
01:02:34,049 --> 01:02:39,185
tree to his right, stairwell coming down,
1280
01:02:39,187 --> 01:02:42,055
and he had a very strong, powerful figure
1281
01:02:42,057 --> 01:02:46,526
with a very sharp knife slashing at him.
1282
01:02:46,528 --> 01:02:48,528
Ron suffered defense wounds
1283
01:02:48,530 --> 01:02:51,031
to both of his hands,
deep defensive wounds,
1284
01:02:51,033 --> 01:02:54,300
so he's clearly trying to parry the knife.
1285
01:02:54,302 --> 01:02:57,037
He suffered a number of stab wounds,
1286
01:02:57,039 --> 01:03:00,206
as he's twisting and turning in the scene.
1287
01:03:00,208 --> 01:03:02,976
At one point Simpson catches Ron,
1288
01:03:02,978 --> 01:03:05,178
with a, it was kind of a sweeping
1289
01:03:05,180 --> 01:03:08,882
stabbing motion to Ron's left flank.
1290
01:03:08,884 --> 01:03:12,018
And the knife blade
penetrates Ron's abdomen,
1291
01:03:12,020 --> 01:03:15,955
and almost completely
severs his abdominal artery.
1292
01:03:17,059 --> 01:03:18,992
You've got about a minute to live
1293
01:03:18,994 --> 01:03:21,194
because of the massive bleedout.
1294
01:03:21,196 --> 01:03:25,265
Blood is filling Ron's abdominal cavity,
1295
01:03:25,267 --> 01:03:28,234
blood is pouring out of the
wound of Ron's left flank,
1296
01:03:28,236 --> 01:03:31,504
soaking the left pants leg of Ron.
1297
01:03:31,506 --> 01:03:34,040
And ultimately after a
matter of some seconds,
1298
01:03:34,042 --> 01:03:35,208
it's hard to determine how many, I believe
1299
01:03:35,210 --> 01:03:38,912
Ron simply sank to the
ground in a seated position
1300
01:03:38,914 --> 01:03:42,282
with his back against the upright bars.
1301
01:03:42,284 --> 01:03:44,417
As we know from the
evidence, there was movement
1302
01:03:44,419 --> 01:03:47,053
between the two bodies.
1303
01:03:47,055 --> 01:03:50,223
I suspect Simpson went
back to Nicole's body,
1304
01:03:50,225 --> 01:03:53,960
lifted her head by grabbing
her blonde head hair,
1305
01:03:53,962 --> 01:03:57,063
and causing the massive incise wound
1306
01:03:57,065 --> 01:03:58,198
across her neck,
1307
01:03:59,468 --> 01:04:02,135
in the process severing
just about everything
1308
01:04:02,137 --> 01:04:04,904
in her neck and putting
a quarter-inch nick
1309
01:04:04,906 --> 01:04:06,306
in her C3 vertebrae.
1310
01:04:07,642 --> 01:04:11,978
This is a fatal sharp force injury.
1311
01:04:11,980 --> 01:04:14,147
Simpson moves back to Ron Goldman,
1312
01:04:14,149 --> 01:04:16,950
grabs his shirt so it would be above Ron's
1313
01:04:16,952 --> 01:04:19,652
right shoulder, transferring
blood, head hairs,
1314
01:04:19,654 --> 01:04:21,721
from Nicole to Ron's shirt,
1315
01:04:21,723 --> 01:04:23,289
twists Ron's body to the side,
1316
01:04:23,291 --> 01:04:25,158
and we know there were four deep
1317
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,661
intersecting knife wounds to the left side
1318
01:04:28,663 --> 01:04:30,630
of Ron's neck.
1319
01:04:30,632 --> 01:04:32,565
In my opinion, overkill.
1320
01:04:32,567 --> 01:04:34,167
With regard to Ron, overkill.
1321
01:04:34,169 --> 01:04:36,136
With regard to Nicole.
1322
01:04:36,938 --> 01:04:39,739
Simpson at this point stepped back,
1323
01:04:39,741 --> 01:04:41,975
stepped in the blood that's pumping
1324
01:04:41,977 --> 01:04:46,012
from Nicole, and in
what appears to be a very
1325
01:04:46,014 --> 01:04:48,014
even stride, goes up
the steps, and out of the
1326
01:04:48,016 --> 01:04:50,984
crime scene, towards
the back of the house,
1327
01:04:50,986 --> 01:04:53,019
towards the alley, where the Bronco had
1328
01:04:53,021 --> 01:04:54,487
to have been parked.
1329
01:04:58,193 --> 01:05:01,861
(barking dog)
1330
01:05:05,667 --> 01:05:07,033
Listen.
1331
01:05:07,035 --> 01:05:11,638
I just flat out, categorically
1332
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:14,941
deny the fact that he could do that.
1333
01:05:16,711 --> 01:05:18,845
Period.
1334
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,067
I came up from court one day,
1335
01:05:41,069 --> 01:05:43,503
and Bill said, "I've got some bad news."
1336
01:05:43,505 --> 01:05:45,538
More, again?
1337
01:05:46,408 --> 01:05:48,441
He said, "There are some tapes."
1338
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,180
What if it could be proved
that Detective Mark Fuhrman
1339
01:05:54,182 --> 01:05:58,251
lied on the witness stand
when he denied ever using
1340
01:05:58,253 --> 01:06:00,753
the word nigger?
1341
01:06:00,755 --> 01:06:02,922
Oh, no.
1342
01:06:02,924 --> 01:06:04,424
Both sides want to get their hands
1343
01:06:04,426 --> 01:06:06,259
on the twelve hours of taped interviews
1344
01:06:06,261 --> 01:06:09,229
Fuhrman gave screenwriter
Laura Hart McKinny
1345
01:06:09,231 --> 01:06:13,199
as background for her fictional
script on L. A. police.
1346
01:06:13,201 --> 01:06:15,768
On the tapes, Fuhrman used
racial epithets and talked
1347
01:06:15,770 --> 01:06:18,004
of framing people.
1348
01:06:18,006 --> 01:06:19,973
What the fuck, dude?
1349
01:06:21,276 --> 01:06:24,544
We were not aware of the tapes.
1350
01:06:24,546 --> 01:06:25,945
Should he have told you about them?
1351
01:06:25,947 --> 01:06:27,947
We were not aware of the tapes.
1352
01:06:27,949 --> 01:06:30,750
It was pennies from heaven.
1353
01:06:30,752 --> 01:06:32,118
We'd been given a gift.
1354
01:06:37,525 --> 01:06:39,359
Miss Drummond.
1355
01:06:52,807 --> 01:06:56,409
Listening to that, I
just felt like somebody
1356
01:06:56,411 --> 01:06:59,045
opened up a drainpipe and
just rolled it over my body.
1357
01:07:17,065 --> 01:07:21,401
Things that were said resonated
1358
01:07:21,403 --> 01:07:25,004
with things I had heard
for 30 years or more
1359
01:07:25,006 --> 01:07:28,141
about the way that cops think,
1360
01:07:28,143 --> 01:07:30,143
and act.
1361
01:07:39,988 --> 01:07:43,022
When you hear those things,
1362
01:07:45,460 --> 01:07:48,294
some of the characters in that screenplay
1363
01:07:48,296 --> 01:07:51,664
I wrapped around some of
the people that I knew,
1364
01:07:51,666 --> 01:07:54,867
on L.A.P.D. and other departments.
1365
01:07:54,869 --> 01:07:58,671
I can remember where I heard them,
1366
01:07:58,673 --> 01:08:03,476
I can remember some who said them,
1367
01:08:03,478 --> 01:08:06,512
and then there's a little
1368
01:08:07,549 --> 01:08:09,215
exaggeration in it.
1369
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,528
Fuhrman may say he was
just fictionalizing,
1370
01:08:23,498 --> 01:08:26,733
but his words rang true.
1371
01:08:35,977 --> 01:08:37,143
Does that mean that he planted the glove?
1372
01:08:37,145 --> 01:08:38,678
No, it doesn't mean he planted a glove.
1373
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:40,680
It doesn't even necessarily mean that he's
1374
01:08:40,682 --> 01:08:41,948
an authentic racist.
1375
01:08:43,918 --> 01:08:46,386
But it means he's
prepared to act like one.
1376
01:08:48,022 --> 01:08:49,622
Yeah, it was pretty bad.
1377
01:08:51,426 --> 01:08:54,160
And there's nothing
that you can take back,
1378
01:08:54,162 --> 01:08:57,964
there's not like a, "Oh,
gee, gosh, I'm sorry."
1379
01:09:08,076 --> 01:09:10,576
We came to this court seven months ago,
1380
01:09:10,578 --> 01:09:12,779
expecting a fair trial.
1381
01:09:12,781 --> 01:09:15,782
My son had a right to it,
1382
01:09:15,784 --> 01:09:17,950
we as a family had a right to it,
1383
01:09:17,952 --> 01:09:20,953
Nicole and her family had a right to it.
1384
01:09:22,257 --> 01:09:25,024
Instead we get this crap spewed
1385
01:09:25,026 --> 01:09:28,428
in front of the cameras for two hours.
1386
01:09:28,430 --> 01:09:30,396
For what purpose?
1387
01:09:30,398 --> 01:09:33,766
I'd love to know what
the judge had in mind.
1388
01:09:33,768 --> 01:09:35,968
This is now the Fuhrman trial.
1389
01:09:35,970 --> 01:09:39,272
It's not the trial of O.J. Simpson,
1390
01:09:39,274 --> 01:09:43,042
who is accused of
murdering my son and Nicole.
1391
01:09:43,044 --> 01:09:48,214
(crowd chanting) We want justice!
1392
01:09:50,318 --> 01:09:52,084
In all their ugliness, the tapes have now
1393
01:09:52,086 --> 01:09:54,554
been made public, but Judge Lance Ito
1394
01:09:54,556 --> 01:09:56,389
has yet to decide if the jury will hear
1395
01:09:56,391 --> 01:09:58,658
what others already have.
1396
01:09:58,660 --> 01:10:00,493
The tapes shall be released.
1397
01:10:00,495 --> 01:10:02,395
We want them now.
1398
01:10:02,397 --> 01:10:04,564
We want justice now.
1399
01:10:06,167 --> 01:10:08,468
The judge was on the
fence as to whether or not
1400
01:10:08,470 --> 01:10:11,737
he was going to let certain stuff come in.
1401
01:10:11,739 --> 01:10:14,273
That required people speaking out
1402
01:10:14,275 --> 01:10:16,576
to say, "This is not
something you should be hiding
1403
01:10:16,578 --> 01:10:18,578
from they jury."
1404
01:10:18,580 --> 01:10:21,247
We know that if you can
railroad O.J. Simpson
1405
01:10:21,249 --> 01:10:26,085
with his millions of
dollars and his Dream Team
1406
01:10:26,087 --> 01:10:28,287
of legal experts, we know what you can do
1407
01:10:28,289 --> 01:10:30,289
to the average African-American and other
1408
01:10:30,291 --> 01:10:33,059
decent citizens in this country.
1409
01:10:34,796 --> 01:10:38,965
It was bigger than O.J. Simpson.
1410
01:10:38,967 --> 01:10:42,768
Something larger than him is at stake.
1411
01:10:44,005 --> 01:10:46,038
Release the tapes, release the tapes.
1412
01:10:48,643 --> 01:10:53,045
O.J. Simpson became a
symbol of that decade,
1413
01:10:53,047 --> 01:10:58,951
of that time, of that response to
1414
01:10:58,953 --> 01:11:03,789
has the mentality of America changed
1415
01:11:03,791 --> 01:11:06,559
in the civil rights struggle.
1416
01:11:07,829 --> 01:11:11,397
Or is it business as usual?
1417
01:11:11,399 --> 01:11:14,133
(chanting)
1418
01:11:15,837 --> 01:11:20,540
For me, as a progressive Christian,
1419
01:11:21,743 --> 01:11:24,243
Democrat, I'm going like,
"When are we going to go
1420
01:11:24,245 --> 01:11:25,978
back to the evidence?"
1421
01:11:28,316 --> 01:11:30,049
You would find yourself in a room
1422
01:11:30,051 --> 01:11:33,319
of ministers and community leaders,
1423
01:11:33,321 --> 01:11:35,655
and the conversation
inevitably would go back
1424
01:11:35,657 --> 01:11:40,259
to O.J. and how O.J. was being mistreated.
1425
01:11:40,261 --> 01:11:42,695
Justice be done in the courtroom,
1426
01:11:42,697 --> 01:11:44,564
we pray, "Yes!"
1427
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:48,401
We are talking about justice!
1428
01:11:48,403 --> 01:11:51,737
Instead of getting in
and saying, "Free O.J.",
1429
01:11:51,739 --> 01:11:54,206
as if he was a political prisoner,
1430
01:11:54,208 --> 01:11:56,776
it for me was, "Let me just get quiet."
1431
01:11:56,778 --> 01:11:59,579
Let me sit there and say nothing.
1432
01:11:59,581 --> 01:12:02,114
Free O.J., free O.J.
1433
01:12:02,116 --> 01:12:03,883
I really do believe privately
a lot of African-American
1434
01:12:03,885 --> 01:12:07,019
leaders felt the same.
1435
01:12:07,021 --> 01:12:10,222
If this case gets
covered up under the rug,
1436
01:12:10,224 --> 01:12:14,760
you will never trust the
criminal justice system again.
1437
01:12:14,762 --> 01:12:16,195
You turned O.J. Simpson
1438
01:12:16,197 --> 01:12:18,965
into a civil rights cause.
1439
01:12:20,702 --> 01:12:22,201
Do you at all regret that?
1440
01:12:22,203 --> 01:12:24,203
Absolutely not.
1441
01:12:24,205 --> 01:12:26,973
O.J. Simpson was a vessel.
1442
01:12:26,975 --> 01:12:30,476
He was merely a tool that allowed
1443
01:12:30,478 --> 01:12:33,980
something to come out and be exposed.
1444
01:12:33,982 --> 01:12:35,281
So you were using O.J. Simpson
1445
01:12:35,283 --> 01:12:36,983
for your own cause?
1446
01:12:36,985 --> 01:12:39,652
I was using O.J. Simpson for our cause.
1447
01:12:39,654 --> 01:12:41,387
For black people's cause.
1448
01:12:47,929 --> 01:12:49,428
There was a realness to the people who
1449
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:50,896
were responding to the Fuhrman tapes
1450
01:12:50,898 --> 01:12:52,231
outside the courtroom.
1451
01:12:52,233 --> 01:12:53,666
What was going on inside the courtroom
1452
01:12:53,668 --> 01:12:56,902
was manipulation to the extreme.
1453
01:12:56,904 --> 01:12:58,671
This is a blockbuster.
1454
01:12:58,673 --> 01:13:00,306
This is a bombshell.
1455
01:13:00,308 --> 01:13:01,674
This is perhaps the biggest thing
1456
01:13:01,676 --> 01:13:03,242
that's happened in any
case in this country
1457
01:13:03,244 --> 01:13:05,678
in this decade, and they know it.
1458
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:07,179
They've got to face up to it!
1459
01:13:07,181 --> 01:13:10,516
No one planted any evidence at any time.
1460
01:13:10,518 --> 01:13:12,318
There has been no false
statement made about where
1461
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,920
that evidence was found,
the analysis of the evidence
1462
01:13:14,922 --> 01:13:16,322
or its results.
1463
01:13:16,324 --> 01:13:18,424
And the defense wants to
squirm away from that fact
1464
01:13:18,426 --> 01:13:20,292
by playing the race card.
1465
01:13:20,294 --> 01:13:22,795
This isn't about any race card.
This is about credibility card.
1466
01:13:22,797 --> 01:13:24,630
This is about perjury.
1467
01:13:24,632 --> 01:13:26,532
The whole case got forgotten.
1468
01:13:26,534 --> 01:13:27,867
It was all about Fuhrman now,
1469
01:13:27,869 --> 01:13:31,303
it was all about racial injustice.
1470
01:13:31,305 --> 01:13:34,173
Occasionally these cartoonists
come up with something
1471
01:13:34,175 --> 01:13:35,875
that's edifying.
1472
01:13:35,877 --> 01:13:37,643
It's a little child,
speaking to his mother,
1473
01:13:37,645 --> 01:13:38,944
watching television, who says,
1474
01:13:38,946 --> 01:13:40,646
"What's the forbidden 'N' word they keep
1475
01:13:40,648 --> 01:13:42,515
talking about, Mommy?"
1476
01:13:42,517 --> 01:13:45,584
She said, "Nicole."
1477
01:13:49,791 --> 01:13:51,157
O.J. Simpson's defense team,
1478
01:13:51,159 --> 01:13:53,159
stunned by Judge Ito's ruling last night,
1479
01:13:53,161 --> 01:13:55,561
that only two excerpts of the inflammatory
1480
01:13:55,563 --> 01:13:57,697
Fuhrman tapes, filled with racial slurs,
1481
01:13:57,699 --> 01:14:00,199
may be presented to the jury.
1482
01:14:00,201 --> 01:14:02,068
We think this jury is
much smarter than this
1483
01:14:02,070 --> 01:14:03,869
judge gives them credit for.
1484
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:07,773
What they let in was enough.
1485
01:14:08,876 --> 01:14:10,509
Then we have two excerpts Your Honor,
1486
01:14:10,511 --> 01:14:12,778
we would like to play at
this point, if we could.
1487
01:14:22,423 --> 01:14:24,323
It's a slap.
1488
01:14:24,325 --> 01:14:25,391
It's a slap.
1489
01:14:25,393 --> 01:14:26,292
Every time you hear it.
1490
01:14:27,729 --> 01:14:29,829
We have no niggers where I grew up.
1491
01:14:29,831 --> 01:14:30,996
Do you recall him saying that?
1492
01:14:30,998 --> 01:14:32,231
Yes.
1493
01:14:33,901 --> 01:14:36,268
To hear anybody speak on race like that,
1494
01:14:36,270 --> 01:14:38,204
is not okay with me.
1495
01:14:38,206 --> 01:14:39,905
When Officer Fuhrman used the word nigger,
1496
01:14:39,907 --> 01:14:43,709
it was not lighthearted,
it was something that
1497
01:14:43,711 --> 01:14:47,613
he would use in normal conversation.
1498
01:14:47,615 --> 01:14:49,048
Devastating.
1499
01:14:49,050 --> 01:14:50,216
I believe those tapes never should have
1500
01:14:50,218 --> 01:14:52,017
been allowed in.
1501
01:14:52,019 --> 01:14:54,019
What is the nexus between
the tapes and the murder?
1502
01:14:54,021 --> 01:14:55,921
What does it have to do with the evidence?
1503
01:14:55,923 --> 01:14:59,458
What proof is there that
any evidence was planted?
1504
01:14:59,460 --> 01:15:03,295
Well, it definitely became
believable that he was capable.
1505
01:15:03,297 --> 01:15:06,699
And I didn't have trust in him anymore.
1506
01:15:06,701 --> 01:15:11,337
He was using it in a
demeaning, derogatory fashion.
1507
01:15:14,308 --> 01:15:15,975
You're saying what's on those tapes
1508
01:15:15,977 --> 01:15:20,813
is not reflective of your
attitudes, or your experiences?
1509
01:15:20,815 --> 01:15:23,415
I don't know how you feel, or see me,
1510
01:15:23,417 --> 01:15:24,750
but I can tell you this.
1511
01:15:24,752 --> 01:15:27,520
You would be shocked if
you saw me in the field.
1512
01:15:28,756 --> 01:15:31,390
I was so fair
1513
01:15:32,627 --> 01:15:38,264
beyond, beyond all scope
of what you had to be.
1514
01:15:38,266 --> 01:15:39,899
Fighting?
1515
01:15:39,901 --> 01:15:42,134
I didn't use tasers.
1516
01:15:42,136 --> 01:15:44,970
I didn't use sticks.
1517
01:15:44,972 --> 01:15:48,073
When I fought a suspect,
I fought straight up.
1518
01:15:48,075 --> 01:15:50,042
I was fair on the street.
1519
01:15:54,749 --> 01:15:58,317
There was a time that
I was pretty violent.
1520
01:16:00,955 --> 01:16:05,424
But that was
1521
01:16:05,426 --> 01:16:07,726
long before I was on the police force.
1522
01:16:10,431 --> 01:16:11,964
Alright, Mr. Uelmen,
I take it at this point
1523
01:16:11,966 --> 01:16:14,366
you wish to recall Detective Fuhrman?
1524
01:16:14,368 --> 01:16:15,935
Yes, Your Honor.
1525
01:16:17,471 --> 01:16:21,473
I didn't want to look
at him, he made me sick.
1526
01:16:21,475 --> 01:16:25,978
You have been a liar throughout.
1527
01:16:25,980 --> 01:16:28,147
And the only reason I know that you didn't
1528
01:16:28,149 --> 01:16:30,649
plant the evidence is
because you couldn't have.
1529
01:16:30,651 --> 01:16:33,819
Otherwise, I'm with them.
1530
01:16:33,821 --> 01:16:35,688
Detective Fuhrman, was the testimony
1531
01:16:35,690 --> 01:16:38,524
that you gave at the
preliminary hearing in this case
1532
01:16:38,526 --> 01:16:41,060
completely truthful?
1533
01:16:42,730 --> 01:16:45,798
I wish to assert my
Fifth Amendment privilege.
1534
01:16:47,001 --> 01:16:48,534
And one of the most shocking moments
1535
01:16:48,536 --> 01:16:50,703
was when he took the Fifth.
1536
01:16:50,705 --> 01:16:53,239
You don't see police
officers take the Fifth.
1537
01:16:53,241 --> 01:16:56,542
Have you ever falsified a police report?
1538
01:16:58,246 --> 01:17:02,414
I wish to assert my
Fifth Amendment privilege.
1539
01:17:02,416 --> 01:17:04,049
Any kind of questioning
is going to help to convict
1540
01:17:04,051 --> 01:17:06,752
him one way or another so
he had to take the Fifth
1541
01:17:06,754 --> 01:17:09,188
to avoid incriminating himself.
1542
01:17:09,190 --> 01:17:12,224
A lot of people don't
understand about the Fifth.
1543
01:17:12,226 --> 01:17:15,327
If you answer one question,
you answer them all.
1544
01:17:15,329 --> 01:17:19,698
I can't let the Defense
attorney just run with me.
1545
01:17:19,700 --> 01:17:21,567
I had to plead the Fifth.
1546
01:17:21,569 --> 01:17:24,236
Is it your intention to assert your
1547
01:17:24,238 --> 01:17:26,171
Fifth Amendment privilege
with respect to all
1548
01:17:26,173 --> 01:17:28,240
questions that I ask you?
1549
01:17:28,242 --> 01:17:30,276
Yes.
1550
01:17:30,278 --> 01:17:31,410
Could I have a moment?
1551
01:17:31,412 --> 01:17:33,112
Certainly.
1552
01:17:33,114 --> 01:17:35,047
That's the main question.
1553
01:17:35,049 --> 01:17:37,616
I mean, he didn't ask the main question.
1554
01:17:37,618 --> 01:17:39,885
Did you plant the glove?
1555
01:17:39,887 --> 01:17:42,121
That was the most important.
1556
01:17:42,123 --> 01:17:44,123
It didn't matter, he
wasn't going to answer.
1557
01:17:56,037 --> 01:17:57,636
Allow me one other question, Your Honor.
1558
01:17:57,638 --> 01:17:58,938
What was that, Mr. Uelmen?
1559
01:17:58,940 --> 01:18:01,240
Detective Fuhrman, did you plant
1560
01:18:01,242 --> 01:18:04,777
or manufacture any evidence in this case?
1561
01:18:04,779 --> 01:18:06,912
Hell, no, I don't plant evidence.
1562
01:18:06,914 --> 01:18:08,414
That's your response.
1563
01:18:08,416 --> 01:18:10,215
And you get incensed.
1564
01:18:10,217 --> 01:18:12,318
L.A.P.D. cops don't plant evidence.
1565
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:14,286
I made a damn fool of myself by using
1566
01:18:14,288 --> 01:18:17,990
a racial epithet, I never
should have done that.
1567
01:18:17,992 --> 01:18:21,060
You lay it out, because you've
got nothing else to lose.
1568
01:18:22,630 --> 01:18:24,997
I assert my Fifth Amendment privilege.
1569
01:18:26,500 --> 01:18:28,267
He didn't do that.
1570
01:18:28,269 --> 01:18:30,536
Why in the hell wouldn't you do that?
1571
01:18:34,742 --> 01:18:36,275
For you, it's a documentary.
1572
01:18:36,277 --> 01:18:38,043
For me, it's the end of my life.
1573
01:18:40,982 --> 01:18:43,148
Now I'm going to tell you a story.
1574
01:18:44,318 --> 01:18:48,787
In 1989,
1575
01:18:48,789 --> 01:18:51,523
I was married, I had a house,
1576
01:18:51,525 --> 01:18:54,760
had a daughter that was born in '91,
1577
01:18:54,762 --> 01:18:57,529
a son that was born in '93.
1578
01:18:58,265 --> 01:19:00,466
Had this group of friends,
1579
01:19:00,468 --> 01:19:03,435
unbelievable friends.
1580
01:19:03,437 --> 01:19:06,872
Every one of them was
different than me, though.
1581
01:19:06,874 --> 01:19:08,941
They all came from intact families,
1582
01:19:08,943 --> 01:19:12,444
fathers, houses they still go back to,
1583
01:19:12,446 --> 01:19:15,214
rooms that they still had, but they
1584
01:19:15,216 --> 01:19:17,216
welcomed me into this group.
1585
01:19:17,218 --> 01:19:19,151
I thought I had it made.
1586
01:19:19,153 --> 01:19:22,321
I finally was really
happy for the first time
1587
01:19:22,323 --> 01:19:24,223
in my life.
1588
01:19:24,225 --> 01:19:26,125
Then I answered a phone.
1589
01:19:27,695 --> 01:19:29,795
I call upon the public to remember
1590
01:19:29,797 --> 01:19:33,065
that Mark Fuhrman is not the L.A.P.D.
1591
01:19:33,067 --> 01:19:35,067
The vast majority of
men and women at L.A.P.D.
1592
01:19:35,069 --> 01:19:37,669
are hardworking, honest people.
1593
01:19:37,671 --> 01:19:38,971
They're husbands, they're
wives, they're sons,
1594
01:19:38,973 --> 01:19:40,239
they're daughters.
1595
01:19:40,241 --> 01:19:42,007
They have mortgages.
1596
01:19:42,009 --> 01:19:43,909
They have kids they want
to get through school.
1597
01:19:43,911 --> 01:19:45,644
They work two and three
jobs just like I did
1598
01:19:45,646 --> 01:19:48,614
as a young officer in
the sixties and seventies.
1599
01:19:50,251 --> 01:19:52,985
And they want to divorce themselves
1600
01:19:52,987 --> 01:19:55,120
from what they've heard
these past few weeks.
1601
01:19:58,259 --> 01:20:01,193
I believe the police force did their job,
1602
01:20:01,195 --> 01:20:05,197
and did it correctly, and I cannot see any
1603
01:20:05,199 --> 01:20:09,435
way that the framing of O.J.
is something that is valid.
1604
01:20:09,437 --> 01:20:11,336
All the evidence points back
to the police department,
1605
01:20:11,338 --> 01:20:14,239
and it looks like a major setup to me.
1606
01:20:14,241 --> 01:20:15,941
I think he's innocent.
1607
01:20:15,943 --> 01:20:18,343
And not just because I want him to be,
1608
01:20:18,345 --> 01:20:21,613
it's just based upon the
facts that have been given.
1609
01:20:21,615 --> 01:20:25,451
I have found most people to be vehemently
1610
01:20:25,453 --> 01:20:29,221
convinced that O.J. Simpson is
guilty of this double murder.
1611
01:20:29,223 --> 01:20:30,622
Well, I believe that he was set up.
1612
01:20:30,624 --> 01:20:31,790
And he's a black man in America,
1613
01:20:31,792 --> 01:20:34,927
and black men in America have a hard time
1614
01:20:34,929 --> 01:20:37,129
getting justice.
1615
01:21:04,058 --> 01:21:07,626
O.J. was known as a very good Black man
1616
01:21:07,628 --> 01:21:10,295
who had appeal across the board, racially.
1617
01:21:12,166 --> 01:21:15,434
Whether O.J.'s guilty or
not, is maybe why you're here.
1618
01:21:15,436 --> 01:21:18,303
But my theory's that
people who live out in Iowa,
1619
01:21:18,305 --> 01:21:21,073
or out in farmland, who've
never intereacted with us,
1620
01:21:21,075 --> 01:21:24,409
will suddenly have a
negative opinion of us.
1621
01:21:24,411 --> 01:21:27,646
The Black man's image, and
the beating that it's taken
1622
01:21:27,648 --> 01:21:29,581
after we've worked so
hard to show that we're
1623
01:21:29,583 --> 01:21:30,749
not all criminals.
1624
01:21:36,824 --> 01:21:38,524
The long awaited closing arguments
1625
01:21:38,526 --> 01:21:41,026
in the O.J. Simpson trial.
1626
01:21:41,028 --> 01:21:42,761
This is the last great
hurdle for the lawyers,
1627
01:21:42,763 --> 01:21:45,697
as they try to convince
the jury that their version
1628
01:21:45,699 --> 01:21:47,733
of events is the right one.
1629
01:21:48,802 --> 01:21:50,202
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
1630
01:21:50,204 --> 01:21:51,870
Good morning.
1631
01:21:51,872 --> 01:21:53,705
Finally.
1632
01:21:53,707 --> 01:21:55,474
I feel like it's been forever
since I've talked to you.
1633
01:21:55,476 --> 01:21:57,142
It kind of has.
1634
01:21:57,144 --> 01:21:59,444
I got up, and I spoke to them.
1635
01:21:59,446 --> 01:22:01,713
I gave my argument.
1636
01:22:01,715 --> 01:22:03,515
In the course of presenting
all of this evidence,
1637
01:22:03,517 --> 01:22:04,950
some evidence has been presented to you
1638
01:22:04,952 --> 01:22:07,686
that really is not relevant
to answer the question
1639
01:22:07,688 --> 01:22:11,657
of who murdered Ron
Goldman and Nicole Brown.
1640
01:22:11,659 --> 01:22:14,960
And it's up to you, the jury,
to weed out the distractions,
1641
01:22:14,962 --> 01:22:18,163
weed out the sideshows
and determine what evidence
1642
01:22:18,165 --> 01:22:20,599
is it that really helps
me answer this question.
1643
01:22:22,903 --> 01:22:26,772
I thought, "They're
listening with half an ear."
1644
01:22:28,676 --> 01:22:32,578
From 9:36 until 10:54,
1645
01:22:33,914 --> 01:22:37,749
the defendant's whereabouts
were unaccounted for.
1646
01:22:37,751 --> 01:22:41,753
At 10:43, Allan Park, the limo driver,
1647
01:22:41,755 --> 01:22:46,892
saw a person approximately six feet tall,
1648
01:22:46,894 --> 01:22:49,394
two hundred pounds, African-American,
1649
01:22:49,396 --> 01:22:53,999
wearing all dark clothing
walking up the driveway.
1650
01:22:56,403 --> 01:22:58,103
Stone faced.
1651
01:23:00,541 --> 01:23:02,274
Marcia Clark.
1652
01:23:06,013 --> 01:23:08,914
You are truly a marvelous jury.
1653
01:23:08,916 --> 01:23:13,018
Perhaps the most patient, and
healthy jury we've ever seen.
1654
01:23:13,020 --> 01:23:14,553
When Johnnie was up there,
1655
01:23:14,555 --> 01:23:18,023
they were, "Oh, we're
there, we are there."
1656
01:23:18,025 --> 01:23:20,959
Like the defining moment in this trial,
1657
01:23:20,961 --> 01:23:24,229
the day Mr. Darden
asked Mr. Simpson to try
1658
01:23:24,231 --> 01:23:27,132
on those gloves and the gloves didn't fit,
1659
01:23:27,134 --> 01:23:29,201
remember these words.
1660
01:23:29,203 --> 01:23:31,637
It was the weekend after
the glove demonstration,
1661
01:23:31,639 --> 01:23:33,805
and we were talking, and you know,
1662
01:23:33,807 --> 01:23:35,907
Jerry was on the speaker phone.
1663
01:23:35,909 --> 01:23:37,743
He says, "Hey guys, hey, hey hey.
1664
01:23:37,745 --> 01:23:39,311
I've got, I've got a phrase."
1665
01:23:40,281 --> 01:23:43,148
If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
1666
01:23:44,718 --> 01:23:47,786
The room then erupted.
1667
01:23:47,788 --> 01:23:51,123
High fiving, hey, hey, hey.
1668
01:23:51,125 --> 01:23:53,158
What everybody remembers
about Johnnie Cochran's
1669
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:57,062
summation is, "If it doesn't
fit, you must acquit."
1670
01:23:57,064 --> 01:23:58,930
Which was cute and fine,
but it wasn't the heart
1671
01:23:58,932 --> 01:24:00,799
of the summation.
1672
01:24:00,801 --> 01:24:04,903
The heart of the summation
was, "Whose side are you on?"
1673
01:24:04,905 --> 01:24:07,406
When you go back in the jury room,
1674
01:24:07,408 --> 01:24:11,376
some of you may want to say
that, "Well, gee, you know,
1675
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:17,816
boys will be boys, this
is just like police talk,
1676
01:24:17,818 --> 01:24:19,584
this is the way they talk."
1677
01:24:19,586 --> 01:24:22,020
That's not acceptable.
1678
01:24:22,022 --> 01:24:24,156
That's the consciousness
of this community.
1679
01:24:24,158 --> 01:24:26,425
If you adopt that attitude,
1680
01:24:26,427 --> 01:24:28,794
that's why we have this.
1681
01:24:28,796 --> 01:24:33,932
There's no more powerful a narrative
1682
01:24:35,035 --> 01:24:38,670
in American society than that of race.
1683
01:24:38,672 --> 01:24:42,641
A racist is somebody
who has power over you
1684
01:24:42,643 --> 01:24:45,877
who can do something to you.
1685
01:24:45,879 --> 01:24:48,947
A police officer, in the
street, a patrol officer
1686
01:24:48,949 --> 01:24:51,516
is the single most powerful figure in the
1687
01:24:51,518 --> 01:24:53,185
criminal justice system.
1688
01:24:53,187 --> 01:24:55,220
He can take your life.
1689
01:24:55,222 --> 01:24:57,889
And that's why, that's why
1690
01:24:57,891 --> 01:24:59,958
this has to be rooted out.
1691
01:24:59,960 --> 01:25:02,527
He was magical to watch in court.
1692
01:25:02,529 --> 01:25:04,563
Just magical.
1693
01:25:04,565 --> 01:25:06,998
Stop this cover-up.
1694
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,167
Stop this cover-up.
1695
01:25:09,169 --> 01:25:12,304
If you don't stop it, then who?
1696
01:25:12,306 --> 01:25:14,906
Do you think the police
department's going to stop it?
1697
01:25:14,908 --> 01:25:16,742
Do you think the D.A.'s
office is going to stop it?
1698
01:25:16,744 --> 01:25:19,411
Do you think we can stop it by ourselves?
1699
01:25:19,413 --> 01:25:22,948
It has to be stopped by you.
1700
01:25:23,484 --> 01:25:25,217
It offended me,
1701
01:25:25,219 --> 01:25:26,752
because he was using a very serious,
1702
01:25:26,754 --> 01:25:31,156
for real issue, racial
injustice, in defense
1703
01:25:31,158 --> 01:25:33,525
of a man who wanted nothing to do
1704
01:25:33,527 --> 01:25:35,427
with the black community.
1705
01:25:35,429 --> 01:25:37,929
Van Atter, with his big
lies, and then we have
1706
01:25:37,931 --> 01:25:40,565
Fuhrman come right on the heels, and these
1707
01:25:40,567 --> 01:25:44,770
two twin devils of deception,
1708
01:25:44,772 --> 01:25:46,671
it's part of a culture
1709
01:25:46,673 --> 01:25:49,007
of getting away with things.
1710
01:25:49,009 --> 01:25:51,543
It's part of a culture
of looking the other way.
1711
01:25:51,545 --> 01:25:54,379
If we determine the rules as we go along,
1712
01:25:54,381 --> 01:25:56,515
nobody's going to question us.
1713
01:25:56,517 --> 01:25:59,017
We're the L.A.P.D.
1714
01:25:59,019 --> 01:26:03,121
He and that team were
willing to go anywhere
1715
01:26:03,123 --> 01:26:08,794
that they could to get the killer off.
1716
01:26:08,796 --> 01:26:10,695
It's just not honorable.
1717
01:26:10,697 --> 01:26:12,631
It's not right.
1718
01:26:12,633 --> 01:26:15,467
Officer Fuhrman went on to say
1719
01:26:15,469 --> 01:26:17,736
that he would like nothing more
1720
01:26:17,738 --> 01:26:22,407
than to see all niggers gathered together
1721
01:26:22,409 --> 01:26:24,743
and killed.
1722
01:26:24,745 --> 01:26:27,479
He said something about burning them,
1723
01:26:27,481 --> 01:26:30,782
or bombing them.
1724
01:26:30,784 --> 01:26:36,555
There was another man
who had those same views.
1725
01:26:36,557 --> 01:26:38,457
People didn't care.
1726
01:26:38,459 --> 01:26:44,162
People said, "He's just crazy,
he's just a half-baked painter."
1727
01:26:44,164 --> 01:26:46,431
They didn't do anything about it.
1728
01:26:46,433 --> 01:26:50,469
This man, this scourge
became one of the worst
1729
01:26:50,471 --> 01:26:53,972
people in the history of
this world, Adolf Hitler.
1730
01:26:53,974 --> 01:26:56,741
The word Hitler had not been in any
1731
01:26:56,743 --> 01:26:59,578
of the prior drafts.
1732
01:26:59,580 --> 01:27:02,581
People didn't care and
didn't try to stop him.
1733
01:27:02,583 --> 01:27:05,650
He had the power over his racism.
1734
01:27:05,652 --> 01:27:06,952
And his anti-religions.
1735
01:27:06,954 --> 01:27:09,688
And nobody wanted to stop him,
1736
01:27:09,690 --> 01:27:13,091
and it ended up in World War II.
1737
01:27:13,093 --> 01:27:16,628
I found his closing
arguments to be irresponsible.
1738
01:27:16,630 --> 01:27:18,763
Thank you, very, very much.
1739
01:27:18,765 --> 01:27:20,866
I appreciate your attention.
1740
01:27:22,503 --> 01:27:25,770
We have seen a man who perhaps is
1741
01:27:25,772 --> 01:27:29,307
the worst kind of racist himself.
1742
01:27:29,309 --> 01:27:34,145
Someone who shoves racism
in front of everything.
1743
01:27:34,147 --> 01:27:37,949
Someone who compares a person who speaks
1744
01:27:37,951 --> 01:27:42,888
racist comments to Hitler.
1745
01:27:42,890 --> 01:27:46,791
This man is a disgrace to human beings.
1746
01:27:46,793 --> 01:27:49,027
(inaudible) No.
1747
01:27:51,164 --> 01:27:53,665
He is one of the most
disgusting human beings
1748
01:27:53,667 --> 01:27:57,602
I have ever had to listen to in my life.
1749
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:02,173
He suggests because of racism,
1750
01:28:02,175 --> 01:28:05,877
we should put aside all other thought,
1751
01:28:05,879 --> 01:28:10,715
all other reason, and set
his murdering client free.
1752
01:28:10,717 --> 01:28:14,786
He's a sick man and he
ought to be put away.
1753
01:28:22,763 --> 01:28:24,162
Johnnie pushed.
1754
01:28:25,232 --> 01:28:26,865
I may have used a different analogy
1755
01:28:26,867 --> 01:28:29,434
but I can't criticize what he did.
1756
01:28:29,436 --> 01:28:32,170
Did you go too far
with the Hitler analogy?
1757
01:28:32,172 --> 01:28:34,005
Some people are offended by that.
1758
01:28:34,007 --> 01:28:36,575
Excuse us, excuse us.
1759
01:28:36,577 --> 01:28:38,410
Could you answer it for us, Johnnie?
1760
01:28:42,182 --> 01:28:44,182
Yes.
1761
01:28:44,184 --> 01:28:46,952
The playing of the race card as he did
1762
01:28:46,954 --> 01:28:52,257
in all respects,
insinuations that were made,
1763
01:28:53,694 --> 01:28:56,895
impacted how I felt about Johnnie.
1764
01:28:56,897 --> 01:28:59,431
Do you owe an apology to Fred Goldman?
1765
01:28:59,433 --> 01:29:01,099
He owes an apology to me.
1766
01:29:02,436 --> 01:29:05,804
I am so tired of the unfair
1767
01:29:05,806 --> 01:29:09,474
suggestion that Johnnie Cochran
1768
01:29:09,476 --> 01:29:11,710
played the race card.
1769
01:29:11,712 --> 01:29:15,714
We played the credibility card.
1770
01:29:15,716 --> 01:29:19,584
We played the evidence card, man.
1771
01:29:19,586 --> 01:29:22,387
You have to look at
the evidence in a case.
1772
01:29:22,389 --> 01:29:24,055
And who in America can deny the fact
1773
01:29:24,057 --> 01:29:26,992
that Mark Fuhrman is a genocidal racist?
1774
01:29:26,994 --> 01:29:29,494
He's their witness, he's
in the middle of this case,
1775
01:29:29,496 --> 01:29:31,396
so race has to be an issue.
1776
01:29:31,398 --> 01:29:34,399
It would have been contrary
1777
01:29:34,401 --> 01:29:38,637
to our oath as advocates to ignore race.
1778
01:29:38,639 --> 01:29:41,673
And to not exploit it,
given the circumstances
1779
01:29:41,675 --> 01:29:44,676
and the context of this case,
1780
01:29:44,678 --> 01:29:48,013
in this city and in this time.
1781
01:29:48,015 --> 01:29:52,484
The attorneys are telling
my brother's story.
1782
01:29:52,486 --> 01:29:56,087
And it's very shocking that
1783
01:29:56,089 --> 01:29:59,090
once Johnnie gets up
and starts telling what
1784
01:29:59,092 --> 01:30:02,193
we feel happens, that this has rocked
1785
01:30:02,195 --> 01:30:04,362
somebody's world.
1786
01:30:04,364 --> 01:30:07,499
I think it's time for
everybody to wake up,
1787
01:30:07,501 --> 01:30:11,169
and realize that we
are in a for-real world,
1788
01:30:11,171 --> 01:30:15,507
and we have dealt with
racism all our lives.
1789
01:30:15,509 --> 01:30:18,209
Every single day.
1790
01:30:20,213 --> 01:30:21,546
It's hard, it's really hard.
1791
01:30:22,983 --> 01:30:25,050
This guy's on trial for his life.
1792
01:30:25,052 --> 01:30:27,886
Not one word that Johnnie Cochran said
1793
01:30:27,888 --> 01:30:33,024
was objected to, by the prosecution.
1794
01:30:33,026 --> 01:30:35,727
Unlawful, under the rules of evidence.
1795
01:30:35,729 --> 01:30:37,829
So, what's the problem?
1796
01:30:37,831 --> 01:30:41,499
On the other hand, really?
1797
01:30:41,501 --> 01:30:44,502
O.J. Simpson as civil rights victim?
1798
01:30:44,504 --> 01:30:46,171
Hero?
1799
01:30:46,173 --> 01:30:47,639
It was disgusting.
1800
01:30:47,641 --> 01:30:49,207
It was appalling.
1801
01:30:49,209 --> 01:30:50,742
What was your feeling when Mr. Cochran
1802
01:30:50,744 --> 01:30:53,812
compared Mr. Fuhrman to Adolf Hitler?
1803
01:30:54,915 --> 01:30:57,148
Your personal feeling, Sir?
1804
01:30:57,150 --> 01:30:59,050
I'll address that after the jury verdict.
1805
01:31:02,389 --> 01:31:06,558
(suspenseful music)
1806
01:31:14,067 --> 01:31:15,734
One month after the murders,
1807
01:31:15,736 --> 01:31:19,571
in July last year, 63% of whites
thought Simpson was guilty.
1808
01:31:19,573 --> 01:31:23,341
65% of blacks thought he was innocent.
1809
01:31:23,343 --> 01:31:25,376
And now, more than a year
later, with all of the evidence,
1810
01:31:25,378 --> 01:31:28,947
having been laid out, 77%
of whites think Simpson
1811
01:31:28,949 --> 01:31:34,018
is guilty, and 72% of blacks
believe he is innocent.
1812
01:31:34,020 --> 01:31:36,988
blacks and whites are
actually farther apart.
1813
01:31:40,193 --> 01:31:42,527
It's not even the trial
of the century anymore.
1814
01:31:42,529 --> 01:31:45,530
Suddenly, the case of The
People Versus O.J. Simpson
1815
01:31:45,532 --> 01:31:49,467
has become the trial of Los Angeles.
1816
01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:04,000
- Synced and corrected by chamallow -
- www.addic7ed.com -
134909
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