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[INDISTINCT CHATTER]

ROZEMYN: My name is
Rozemyn Afman and I am
the daughter of Frans Afman.

My father was
a prominent Dutch banker

who had always wanted to
write a book about
his adventures in Hollywood.

He became a major player
in the independent film
industry during the 1980s.

To help him,
I started interviewing him
as a labor of love.

But it became for me,
a journey of discovery into
my father's life and times.

MAN: Marker A and B cam.

[SPEAKING IN DUTCH]

Oh, I have to
do it in English, right?

ROZEMYN: Yes, we are
doing it in in English.

Okay, are there any questions
from the audience?

[ROZEMYN AND FILM CREW
LAUGHING]

ROZEMYN: That's very funny.
Actually I do have a question.

Papa.

What would you like
to know about Frans Afman?

Oh, um... Yeah, I think the...

What is interesting
I think that...

How is it possible that

a guy from a
medium Dutch bank,
a medium-sized Dutch bank

was able to invent
a completely new structure
for film financing.

Because I am a simple banker.

That's probably
the only question,
the rest is not interesting.

Let me tell you about
the era of Frans Afman
if I may.

You have no idea
the amount of power
this one man

truly wielded.

With the wave of that finger.

Well, he needed
this one also to sign.

Oh, I thought it was
the middle finger?

No, no, no. He had to use
the both of them together
to sign the things.

He pretends he's a producer,
but in fact he is a PR person.

Give you another story.
I would go to the,
to his offices in Holland

and he'd have a waiting room,

and the waiting room
was the who's who
of Hollywood.

You'd sit out there,
They would be
sitting there like this.

From Dino De Laurentiis
to Menahem Golan

to Andy and Mario,
who were coming over.

They would all be sitting
around and waiting.

We'd be like
little children, waiting.

They would get the financing
that they need,

they would get
solved their problems,

they walked out
with the solutions.

ROZEMYN: Over a period of
more than 20 years,

my father financed
over 900 films.

He did so
through two European banks
he worked for.

First, Dutch Slavenburg's bank

and later the
French Credit Lyonnais.

He played an important role
in the creation of films
such asSuperman,

Platoon,
andDances with Wolves.

And he was instrumental
to the rise

of many independent
production companies

like Cannon, Hemdale
and Carolco.

The '80s were a lot more fun.

Can I get your autograph?
I want to get your autograph.
I didn't think you existed.

BRUCE McNALL A very
entrepreneurial, go get 'em,

play things loose and fun,
enjoy what you're doing,

that world of the '80s.

Which was more about people
and less about the numbers.

Without Frans,
independent film would have
been set back decades

if not more.

For the old timers like me
that know that,

it's kind of, you know,
yes, you guys are all riding
on this wave and great fun

but the history is interesting
which was, before that
it just hadn't been done.

I needed your father
when he was there.

Someone who believes
absolutely in
what movies can be.

He is probably, in many ways,
the best-known banker
in the history of Hollywood.

'Cause most people don't know
who the bankers are.

Frans gave us the money.

Now it is time
to tell the truth.

ROZEMYN: How much money
are we talking about?

We asked for one million
and he gave us three.

What happened
with the other two?

This is probably
from the '80s.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

[ROZEMYN AND FRANS
SPEAKING DUTCH]

ROZEMYN:
From a very young age,

I developed a huge adoration
for my father.

There was a fifty-year
age difference between us.

As a young girl,
I never understood
what he did for a living

except that he always
wore a business suit.

Which impressed me.

I remember very well
that there were pictures taken
on a beach in Los Angeles,

where I got a sense
of his importance.

As I grew older, I became more
and more intrigued

about what he exactly did.

[SPEAKING IN DUTCH]

By sheer coincidence
in the early '70s,
I believe it was '74.

I met with Dino De Laurentiis.

Everything that I did
in the film business,
I owe to Dino.

He earned his stripes
already in Italy.

He already had two Oscars.

One wasNights of Cabiria
and the other wasLa Strada.

He was interested in
getting a bank account,

a normal
regular current account
in Amsterdam

because they were in
the process of setting up
a foreign distribution office.

He couldn't rely anymore
on the Italian banks.

And that's perhaps
when he met Frans

and the owner
of Slavenburg bank.

And they seemed to be open
to get into that business.

I said, "How do you
finance your pictures?

"How are movies
being financed?"

And he was laughing at me
and he said,

"Well, you are a banker,
aren't you?"

I said, "Yes, well I'm trying
to play that role."

He said, "Bankers never ask
that question

"because they hate
the film business,

"they don't want to
get involved

"and certainly not
in the independent
motion picture business."

The Citibank, Bank of America.
No way.

Of course they had
corporate accounts
with the major studios,

but independent producers
were always turned away.

The studios used to have
their cluster of writers,

their cluster of directors,
their cluster of stars,
under one roof.

And they all
kind of cross-collateralized
their ideas,

the creativity,
and was very safe.

They want their
certain tent poles
and franchise movies

or the romantic comedies
that are sure winners.

They want to love
their scripts
before they make them.

Scripts aren't always perfect.

You know, you've got to
decide on something

and then try to
make it perfect
and then go make them.

And that's where
your father was
very important.

Because he gave
independent producers chances
to make their movies.

As a commercial bank,
we could not invest in films.

But we could,
perhaps, finance films.

I see a film as a project
like we financed real estate.

We were based in Rotterdam,
so obviously shipping was
a major activity of our bank.

And I said, "Why not films?"

And he said,
"Well, let's sit down

"and let's see
if we can find a structure."

It all began with Dino saying,

"Frans, I'm going to teach you
how to really do
the film business

"and the foreign sales,
the discount contracts."

Frans had lunch with Dino,
practically three times a week
for many months.

FRANS: I remembered that
my father in his free time,
he was very active in culture.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

He booked stage plays

and guaranteed
a certain amount of money.

[SPEAKING IN DUTCH]

He thought, "Hamletwould be
played by a major actor or

"Midsummer Night's Dream,
I will certainly have
three nights fully booked

"and so then I can guarantee
a certain amount of money."

And with that in my mind,
I said to Dino,

"Couldn't we lay off the risk
to the distributors
in the world?"

There are a lot of
independent distributors

in every major country.

And we give them the script.

We tell them
who are going to be
in the movie,

an idea about the cast.

And that system
was basically invented by us.

By the two of us,
Dino and myself.

And that was
the system of pre-sales.

And in his autobiography,
he describes us as
the pioneers in the business.

You want to make a film, okay.

So what do you do?
Where do you start?

So what you do is,
step one is you get a script

you either write it,
or buy it or option it,

but somehow or the other
you get ownership
of some script.

Step two is, you want to get
somebody to be attached
to direct and star in it.

We maybe had our director
attached to it,
maybe we had an actor or two.

And that was
what we call our package.

What I now do is, I go down to
the American Film Market

or to I go to Cannes
and I go meet
all the foreign distributors,

and I say, "How would you
like to buy my film
for your territory?"

"It's going to be wonderful."
And we sell them, and they go,
"Okay, we believe in you.

"We will buy the movie today,

"and you will deliver it to us
eight months from now
or a year from now,

"and let's agree on an advance
we are going to give you."

So I have a contract
from the German distributor
now for a million dollars.

They haven't paid me cash,
but they have given me
a binding contract.

And that contract
would be called a "pre-sale."

And that pre-sale
we would take to a banker.
Who could we go to?

Oh, Frans Afman.
We would take it to Frans

and Frans would go, "Hmmm."

"They looked good.
I trust the people
that are going to pay.

"So yes, I will loan you
the ten million dollars
to make your film.

"But, how do I know, Sky,
that you will get the film
actually completed?"

So the completion bond company
comes on and says,
"Mr. Banker.

"I guarantee you, don't worry.

"I am an insurance company
with billions of dollars
behind me.

"If something happens,
and an actor dies
or the director quits

"or for whatever reason.

"You don't need to worry."

The bank then loans
me the money.

When it is done,
hopefully on time
and on budget.

I now say to
the completion guarantor,
"I did my job, you're done."

I now deliver the film
to the foreign distributors.

They pay the more than
ten million dollars
back to the bank.

Hopefully I make a profit

either from the amount
I've sold it for is more than
the cost of the film

or if the film works,
I will get what's called
overages, which is royalties.

So, that is the essence
of how the
pre-sale market works.

I can't remember
what the first one
might have been.

ROZEMYN: Were you there during
Three Days of the Condor?

Oh, that's good, yes. It was
Three Days of the Condor.

And what it really was
is that the tax shelter group

set up an account
at Slavenburg's bank

and Frans helped us do it.

So it wasn't
very expensive for us.

[GRUNTING AND YELLING]

NARRATOR: Robert Redford
and Faye Dunaway in danger

and in love.
InThree Days of the Condor.

FRANS: My bank had
absolutely no idea
about film financing.

So, they said,
"Are you sure that we
get our money back?"

I said, "Well, sure, sure.
You can never be sure.
There is always a risk.

"But I have a good feeling.
I think the distributors,
I checked them out.

"I think they really have
the intention to pay us

"once the picture
is delivered."

[SPEAKING IN DUTCH]

My feeling was
not so much about

whether the film
would be a great success.

Because actually,
that was nice,

that was the icing
on the cake.

But the purpose of the loan
was to get the money back.

He had the intelligence
to use Dino.

I mean, really use,
to Dino's full acceptance
and agreement

to teach him
what he what he should do

and what he should be
careful about.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

The times that
they were together

were so important
that they were together,

because they were
making things happen.

And you have this euphoria
when you are making movies.

You are creating.

And Frans felt that too,
because he was
part of that process.

This business
is very seductive.

So they shared that,
Frans understood that passion.

They were very close.
Believed in each other.

I think Frans might have
looked up to him.

Dino never looked down
on Frans.

[SCREAMING]

The big one was in 1976,
when he did King Kong
with Dino.

The studios,
they paid attention to it.

This model could bring
big-ticket movies,
that we don't have to finance.

So, it was a
tremendous risk management.

The studios needed product.

With King Kongthey go,
"Oh, this really works."

We'll take a distribution fee,

and Dino and Frans Afman
can take all the risk.

FRANS: That was a major film
for that time.

And that was
a very expensive movie.

We completely financed
that movie.

And during production,
the costs went up
from $18 to $24 million.

All and all,
that film made a bonanza.

Not that we benefited from it.

We were very happy
with an interest margin

and a closing fee,
and that was it.

So, maybe we made
three percent on the budget.

ROZEMYN: After working with
Dino for three years,

my father had mastered
the ins and outs
of the movie business.

Dino then offered him a job
as his private banker

but my father
respectfully declined.

He wanted to stay
at Slavenburg's bank,

while discovering
Hollywood for himself.

Dino was disappointed
but understood his decision.

While Dino remained
his main client,

my father started to work
with other producers.

The difference between Frans
in relation with other people

working in the
bank business for movies,

he has one great quality,

he has the feeling
about the movie.

I'm not surprised if one day,
tomorrow, Mr. Frans Afman
resigning from the bank

and become producer.

Because our business
is a tough business.

You must love it
to do that.

Now, wouldn't that beat all
get out...

You...

Huh?

ROZEMYN: The first project
my father worked on
without Dino

would turn out to be
very complicated.

Unknowingly, Slavenburg's bank
had become involved
in a film project

calledSuperman.

FRANS: Superman is an
interesting story.

I got a call
from the president of the bank

and he said, "You have to come
immediately to Rotterdam."

"To the head office.
We need to see you."

I thought, "My goodness,
have I done something wrong?"
"No, no, no, but we need you."

I said,
"I have meetings today,
I cannot cancel my meetings."

He said, "You will have to
cancel all meetings,

"it is very urgent
you come to Rotterdam."

So, I arrive in Rotterdam.

The whole board
is sitting there.

I never forget,
in the boardroom.

All faces, very long faces.

I thought, "My God,
what is going on here?"

They said, "We just discovered

"that we are
financing Superman."

A man by the name
of Alexander Salkind

was planning to produce
a Supermanpicture.

He found a bank officer

in this small village
of Zutphen,
in The Netherlands.

And that officer had authority

to advance up to,
I think it was
a $100,000 dollars.

When the bank examiners
came to look at Slavenburg's,
they found that, uh,

Mr. Salkind had borrowed,
I believe, $32 million.

We were in shock
because we didn't know
about it.

We didn't know...
Small amounts,
with a subsidiary of the bank.

And, so, they all were
looking at me and said,

"How are you going
to solve that?"

I said, "How far are we
with the production?"

"Well, we are
somewhere midway."

So, I went to London.
The picture was shot
at Pinewood.

All the producers
got together, the Salkinds
and Pierre Spengler.

And I said, "We have to go on.
There is no other solution."

Frans with his expertise
in filmmaking
and all that came on board

and said, "Wait a minute.
We are not going to
leave that in the subsidiary,

"we are going to
take it over with Slavenburg."

And this was the first, uh...

The first, really, let's say,
official encounter
between Frans and ourselves.

They resolved a lot
of uncertainties that we had.

Very crucial
was the screening.

Because I asked Pierre,
"Show me the stuff,
show me the material

"that has been shot so far."

And I brought Dino in.
Dino De Laurentiis.

We saw maybe
an hour of material.

And Dino pinched me
in the arm, he said,

"It's good stuff, Frans.
It is very good stuff."

And that also was
part of my decision
to move on.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

FRANS: Somebody thought
it was a great idea

if Superman would
restore the White House

that was badly damaged
by the bad guys.

Good afternoon, Mr. President.

Sorry I've been away so long.

I won't let you down again.

You needed another
250, I remember.
Another quarter of a million.

And I said,
"If this helps the film,
we have to do it."

So, Superman Iwas released,
was a huge success.

At that time,
immediately I started working
on finishing Superman II.

A guy named Marlon Brando,
an actor of some note.

A guy named Dick Donner,
a director of some note

had sued Alex Salkind

for not receiving the moneys
they should have received.

On Superman Iand Superman II.

He turned out
to make two movies,

when he was
supposed to be making one.

They were pretty slippery,
these guys.

And what they had done,
and they didn't inform
the cast or anybody.

They shot a lot of footage.

And they had enough footage
from this Superman
to do Superman II.

So my goal was to get in
and make sure the plaintiffs
got their money.

Knowing it was gonna be very
difficult to get much

out of Alex and his
companies and people.

Your father said very sternly,

"I will make sure
that every penny
that is lent to you

"will go into the film

"and not into
anybody's pocket."

Eventually Superman II
came out,

it was again a big success.

And there we finally
were able to sit down
and make the account

and say, "Okay, now we are
able to pay
all the participations.

"Start repaying the bank."
And it all worked out.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

ROZEMYN: After solving
all the problems
withSuperman,

the board of the bank
encouraged my father

to expand the film business
at Slavenburg's.

While building his clientele,
a lot of independent producers
came to Rotterdam

to seek financing
for their movies.

And I remember when I came in,
everybody was running around.

And I said, "What happened?"
And there was some sort of...

Of foreclosure or something
that was taking place.

Nobody was there.

I had this interview
and I think Frans
wasn't there.

There was some sort of problem

and I said,
"What is going on over here?"

ROZEMYN: What happened was
that the Dutch tax authority
had raided the bank

because they suspected it
of money laundering.

All the senior management
were taken into custody,
including my father.

Even though he came out clean,
he had to stay home
during further investigations.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

ROZEMYN: My mother told me
that I was conceived
during a very difficult time.

It was quite a big thing
for me to learn,
while making this documentary.

I am the youngest
in the family

and I have
three older brothers.

I did not quite understand
why my mother
made that decision,

if you already have
three children.

But I guess she hoped
for a little girl to
soften my father's feelings.

This helped me understand
my adoration for him.

[SPEAKING IN DUTCH]

ROZEMYN: When in 1983,
Credit Lyonnais acquired
Slavenburg's bank.

The French management learned
about my father's activities
in the film industry.

They liked the business
and saw a lot of potential
for growth.

So, they asked my father
to completely focus
on film financing.

With their support,
he put together his own team

and created
an entertainment division.

It required
a level of knowledge

of the distribution community
and how it worked
and where the movies worked.

That was
just simply not there.

Frans had that knowledge
and basically created
a business

that became, you know, huge.

Billions of dollars
by the '90s.

Action! [EXPLOSION]

Action!

ROZEMYN: The same kind of
excitement that my father felt

by working with
Dino De Laurentiis,

he found in Israeli filmmakers
Yoram Globus
and Menahem Golan.

Their enthusiasm
and dedication

were so stimulating
to my father

that it became one of his most
productive partnerships.

A producer...

-Must get everything
that the movie needs.
-Yes.

No way out.

[SPEAKING IN DUTCH]

-You have learned
to speak Dutch?
-Oh, a few words.

[CHUCKLES]

And then we got from you,
I think a line

of four or five
million dollars

to do the small action movies.

I tried for a low budget
that we did low-budget movies

to make a film look big.

I was always scared of you,
because you are the big man.

Big Frans Afman.

Yoram had to speak to you.
I was quiet.

But I was making
the movies, and...

FRANS: He was quiet?

What is going on here?

Frans, we will go into it
that he was quiet.

GOLAN: What about
this stupid fire?

You're an officer today.

You're an officer today.
Next month you will not
be an officer.

Don't make me angry.
I will shoot when I want.
You can arrest me!

[SPEAKING IN DUTCH]

Menahem...

Did the Ninja.

He invented the Ninja movies.

NARRATOR: If you take on
a Ninja,
no matter how many you are

be prepared
for the consequences.

Enter the Ninja from Cannon.

He was in the Philippines
and he...

And then it was
Credit Lyonnais already.

And then the Philippines
wanted to kill him,
the people,

for the $50,000
that he owed them.

GOLAN: I owed, yes.

"What should we do?"
I called Frans
in the middle of the night

and Frans tells me,

"Come to Rotterdam."
That is how it was.

We sat in Rotterdam,
I think, for one day. We plan.

And instead of 50
we got a line of
$25 million.

And that's how
we started to do
The Wicked Lady,

That Championship Season,
Sahara.

The first upgrade movies
ofCannon.

GOLAN: First movies
with stars, real stars.

I always wanted to learn.
I wanna learn more,
and more and more.

Because I have always said
to my boss in the bank,
Georges Vigon,

the moment that
I have to defend
a credit facility.

And I tell you,
"Georges, you should trust me,
because I know the business...

"You have a free mandate
to fire me on the spot."

Frans got a very
special permission
from Credit Lyonnais

to join the Cannon group board
of directors as
independent board.

Your suggestion, your ideas,
were always...

I accepted them.
You are a very smart man.

There are a couple
of Israeli's here

who would probably
steal their thunder

and sell it back to them
at a profit.

Golan and Globus may sound
like a couple of
Middle-East cities...

FRANS: For many years,
they were the king
of independents.

They were so prominent during
the Cannes film festival.

Their parties, their pictures.
They made wonderful pictures.

ROSS JOHNSON: You had
all these media promoting your
film essentially for free.

I thought Cannon made
some good films.

Barflystill holds up today.

I can't stand people.

I hate them.

Oh yeah?

You hate them?

No.

But I seem to feel better
when they're not around.

We had the feeling that,

when you bring
a star to Cannes
you capture the buyers.

I'll do the movie
because they couldn't pay me
a lot of money.

I said, "Okay, but I want
a Rolls Royce."

He says, "Okay, I will
give you a Rolls Royce."

And we bought him
a Rolls Royce!

What don't you do
for these stars!

And he came to Cannes,
and it was a big success.

So I thought he gave it
to me for real.

At the end of the movie
some guys came and said,

"We're taking the Rolls."

Legendary story.

I enjoyed having coffee
with Frans or a drink.

Much more than with Menahem.

I liked, you know,
very classy, elegant guy.

Menahem always had like
gefilte fish

and, uh, all kinds of things
all over his shirt.

I could tell what Menahem had
for breakfast, lunch
and dinner

on his red shirt with his
white suspenders.

But this guy was a class act.

Somewhere in the '80
they came to see me and said,
"Frans, all these movies

"but what about
the movie theaters?"

I said, "Yeah, it seems to be
a problem."

Because video
became so important,

that there was less attendance
in the movie theaters.

And many so called "experts"
decided that this was the end
of the movie theaters.

I helped them with
the acquisition of the
Gaumont theater in Italy.

I helped them
with the acquisition of...

A couple of theater chains
in the United Kingdom.

And eventually I was able to
assist them
with the acquisition

of the famous Tuschinski
theater chain here in Holland.

As well as the City theaters.

Everybody said,
"The unions in The Netherlands
are terrible

"and you will go
bankrupt in six months."

And we said, "In 12 months
all the theaters

"in the big cities
will be ours."

And that's what we did.

You fixed it.

And they ask us...

First of all we said that
we believed in
the future of cinemas.

As long as there is use,
cinemas will exist.

Then they asked us,
"What are you doing
to the cinema?"

Do you remember our answer?

Just clean the toilets,
first of all.

Once the toilets are clean,
it begins.

Then you change the carpets
and you change the chairs.

Did you ever sit in
Tuschinski One
in a chair lately?

Impossible to sit.

You know, it's like this,
you can't put your knees.

We are changing those chairs
because I understand

Tuschinski is an
historical place,

but it doesn't mean
you cannot sit on a chair.

NARRATOR:
From the director ofChinatown
andTess: Roman Polanski.

Polanski's epic adventure.

ROZEMYN:
ForPirates my father had
high expectations

because of the
great reputation of director
Roman Polanski.

The movie was shot
on location in Tunisia

and starred Walter Matthau.

FRANS: It was Roman Polanski's
pet project.

Tarak Ben Ammar,
the producer could not
control him apparently.

So, he was not moving.

And Tarak said,
"There is very little
I can do,

"but maybe you can
do something

"because you have the right
to remove him
from the project

"and replace him
by another director."

We had done that before
with Superman.

We had replaced Richard Donner
with Richard Lester.

I went to Tunisia
to meet with Polanski

and apparently,
my chairman also joined me.

We had a lot
of money at stake.

[ANJA AFMAN SPEAKING IN DUTCH]

FRANS: Then finally,
he completed the picture,
but it was a terrible picture.

I remember the film
was shown at the

Directors' Guild
in Los Angeles

for a selected group
of people.

They all loved Polanski,
because of Chinatown,

and Rosemary's Baby,
what have you.

A man of great reputation.

And of course Roman Polanski
was allowed to enter
into the United States.

Only to serve time there
because of his affair
with that young girl in 1977.

So there was a video message
from Paris that he was
greeting everybody.

All his admirers et cetera.

And during the film,
I felt already the atmosphere,
they were uneasy.

And then when the film ended,

there was dead silence.

People couldn't believe
that Polanski had
made such a terrible movie.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

ROZEMYN: To understand
the importance of
my father's accomplishments.

I wanted to personally meet
the people he worked with.

I went to interview
many of his colleagues,

like John Miller,
the banker at JP Morgan Chase

who finances many of
the blockbuster movies
for the major studios.

He looked at this business...

In a way that would be
very difficult today.
Because, I think he...

He trusted somebody,
he got to know them.

He made a lot of decisions,
I think, based on

his instincts about who he was
doing business with.

I was making a film and
the film ran out of money.

It was called
Never Too Young To Die.

And we were just about to
start shooting, and we were
shooting and I was in trouble.

So I remember,
"Oh, Frans Alfman."

I gotta call Frans.

So, I called him up

and he said,
"Ah, the prodigal son
comes back."

And I explained to him
the situation.

He says, "Give me
your bank account number."

I said, "Really?"
He said, "Yes, I trust you.
How much money do you need?"

And I needed
half a million dollars
at that time.

He says, "I'm going to
wire transfer you that money."

And he says, "We are going to
do the paper work after."

He says, "Because I am
going to take you
at your word."

Everybody who got
a major credit facility

had to appear
in front of my board.

We had lunch in Rotterdam
and dinner if necessary
et cetera.

And we treated him well
but they had to
come to Rotterdam.

And one of the producers
once said in an interview
for television, he said,

"Yeah, Rotterdam was
a coming and going
of famous producers

"and they all had to
sit on the couch

"until they were
asked to come in.

"And if you got the handshake,
then it was okay."

But that's not how we worked,
of course not.

As you know, Frans is a...
He loves wine.

He is a great authority
on wine.

So we were discussing
the next pictures

and Frans spoke to
the two board members
and said,

"Right, let's make a bet."

He bet that they did not know,

the original five
Grand Cru wines from France.

And they were two Frenchmen,
so it was a matter of honor.

Over dinner,

Frans won the bet
and they agreed to
finance the next two pictures.

Of course, I took it
with a pinch of salt.

I went to the office
the next day,

they presented to me the note,

signed by
the two board members,

that those pictures
would be financed.

Those two next pictures were
Hoosiersand Platoon.

He took a far more
creative approach
to the business.

He was interested
in the content,
he was interested in...

And was willing
to take the risk.

'Cause he could see...

Read the script,
understand who
the director was,

who the producer was,
who was starring
in the movies.

And he was willing to take
a far higher level of risk

than an American bank
would've taken.

And he did it well.

Domestic banks were
less comfortable with
those foreign distributors.

They had more
regulatory requirements.

They were not as flexible
as the European banks,

and specifically
Credit Lyonnais.

And that I think,
is what allowed
Frans to dominate,

in those days,
because the American banks
couldn't compete.

The first picture
that we did with Frans
was The Terminator.

With James Cameron
and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

And Frans was
very instrumental in
bringing that together.

Because he would guarantee
Arnold Schwarzenegger's fee.

Which, I think at that time
was relatively small
by today's standards.

About a million dollars.

But it had to be put forward

and a guarantee
before the picture
was financed.

REPORTER: Frans Afman
and Credit Lyonnais

have had a financial hand
in a wide variety of pictures.

Among them, Hemdale Film
smash hitThe Terminator.

Hemdale's president,
John Daly.

DALY: I think his
biggest contribution
was withThe Terminator.

None of that
would have been possible
had Frans not supported us.

Extremely loyal
to people that do
business with him.

And in fact, he is almost
a father figure.

Frans was very savvy.

And he understood
what it meant

and he was looking beyond
just a single picture.

He was looking to help, um...

The principles of Hemdale
build a company,
build a library

because the library
became very, very successful
and it became valuable.

ROZEMYN: Why do you think
the independent film industry

was dominated by companies
that were run by foreigners

like Cannon, Hemdale
and Carolco?

Well I think this is
a melting pot, you know.
America is a melting pot.

And Hollywood is the center
of the film industry.
Or Los Angeles is the center.

So it's natural that
everybody from abroad
gravitates towards America

because the actors were here,
the directors were here.

So, naturally
we were all here.

They did not work well
within a studio bureaucracy.

I mean, visually,
when you look at these people,

if you look at Mario and Andy,

they don't look like people
you would see in a studio.

Our philosophy was
that we want to give the
independent market

the same kind of movies
that the major studios
were releasing.

And in fact, it turned out
that they we were beating them
with our movies.

So, our goal was really
not to compete with
Cannon or Hemdale

but was to compete
with the major studios.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

Hollywood blames us
for destroying the prices,

even though that isn't true
because they are the ones
that destroyed it.

The studios made
less money upfront

but they give each star
a big backend.

A percentage of the gross.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

So consequently, if a picture
was really successful,

Carolco was better off.

If the picture
was not a success,

then of course,
Carolco was worse off.

I remember in particular that
there was one transaction
at Carolco where

they committed to
a three million dollar script

literally on
the back of a napkin.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

It was the Wild West,

it was truly
independent filmmaking.

So, you definitely saw
with certain members

of the independent world,

it's like, you know,
"Enjoy it now,

"because it is not going
to last forever."

So, they were
much more liquid,

how they entertained.

And they were having fun.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

[ROZEMYN SPEAKING DUTCH]

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

PETER HOFFMAN: We had
the party of parties.

It had an unbelievable
collection of talent,

all working
with one independent company.

All right?
Financed by Credit Lyonnais.

We had Schwarzenegger,
we had Stallone,

we had Michael Douglas,
we had Sharon Stone.

You know, Jim Cameron
and Oliver Stone.

Come on,
I want you to get this.

The party was great.

REPORTER:
What was on the menu?

I don't remember the food.
I really don't remember
the food.

We drank, we had a great band,
the Gipsy Kings played.

I don't think
we will ever have a case,

where an independent company

can have the number one
worldwide grossers

back to back,
like we did in those days.

Hello, Tony. How are you?

REPORTER: Can we talk with you
just about
the Cannes film festival.

Is it important for you
to be here
and meet with your clients?

Always, always. Yes.

Already for 16, 17 years,
I come out every year

basically to learn.

Because this is the place
where distributors,

exhibitors, producers
meet each other

and do deals.

And we like to know

in what financial condition
everybody is.

So, we talk to all
the foreign distributors
in the world.

Unlike most bankers,

he knew all of
the distributors
around the world.

Frans could get on
the phones himself

and call Toho-Towa or GAGA,

or whatever it was
and help solve problems.

He was very pro-active.

If there was a problem

that was taking place
on a loan,

and there's always problems,
with everything, he was there.

He was by its side, he was
part of the solution going on.

He was involved, literally,
in everybody's business.

In a good way.

HOFFMAN: We got
to make that picture,

specifically
because of your father.

At a certain point the bank,

through the French lenders,
had lent too much money
to Hemdale.

And Frans and I came up
with this deal

where we bought
the library rights

to those Hemdale titles
for 40 million dollars.

And we had to put back
for ten.

When, as expected,

Hemdale defaulted
on paying back the ten,

I went to Frans and said,

we have to levy
on the sequel rights.

We made Terminator
for six and a half million.

Terminator 2was made
for close to 120 million.

I've always wanted
to see the frontier.

You want to see the frontier?

Yes, sir.

Before it's gone.

Ain't nothing here,
Lieutenant.

What about Indians?

[MAN SHOUTING]

We approached
all the American studios.

From Paramount to Universal
to Fox, you name them.

And everybody had basically
four reasons to decline.

I was very honest about
what it would be.

I knew it would be long.

That didn't mean
I thought it would be boring,
but I knew it would be long.

And I knew that
there would be subtitles.

The American studios
in those days,

well they still are,
they are very nervous
of subtitles.

They don't want
to release subtitled movies.

I knew that those
subtitles were important.

That two people
could not talk.

They didn't want to back
a first time director.

Everybody has been
a first time director

once in his life. Okay?

"No, no, we don't like him
as a director."

Okay.

Reason number three
not to do the movie,

it was too long.
Three hours and 20 minutes.

The reason that's a problem is

you lose
a screening every day.

So you're losing money,

just because of the length
of the film.

FRANS:
And the number four reason,

it was about cowboys
and Indians, basically.

And so,
this very American movie

would not be financed
by anybody here.

We have no American deal.

Let's first start
with the foreign contract.

Let's see
if there is interest.

And we were just lucky,

because that same summer

The Untouchableshad come out.

The Untouchables
was a great movie

with Bob de Niro
and Kevin Costner.

And Kevin Costner
was brilliant in that movie.

So everybody who hadn't heard
of Kevin Costner

knew thatThe Untouchables
was a great movie.

Guy East said,
"This is unbelievable

"We get offers from everywhere

"from Japan, from the Far East

"from Europe,
from Latin America.

"I think we can cover
60 percent of the budget

"out of foreign pre-sales."
Unbelievable.

We went to the markets,
we made the sales

then the cash started flowing.

We went to the studio
and said, "Listen,

"Foreign people are already
so interested in...
Foreign distributors,

"about this project
Dances with Wolves,

"That I think...

"I am surprised that
not one American Studio
has picked it up."

Even though it was
an independent production

and the money was being
provided by the banks,

you needed
the studio's distribution arm,

their prints
and advertising money,

you needed them behind you.

Nine million dollars
was raised

by the European community
and I will forever be thankful
for that.

Once Hollywood realized

I was going
to go make this movie,

interest kind of
started to grow a little bit.

But I went to a studio that
I had been familiar with,
Orion.

And they gave me
four million dollars.

It took Europe to move
the dial for me.

And action!

Scotty!

[MEN YELLING]

GUY EAST:
I used to go to South Dakota

and watch them
where they were shooting.

Kevin used to rent
the local cinema every night

and everybody from the set
could go
and watch the dailies.

Which was incredibly unusual.

And then when you saw
the stampedes
and things like that.

And Kevin did all
the stunts himself.

He went out on a horseback
and he rode in the middle

of hundreds
and hundreds of buffalo.

I mean, he could easily have
been killed.

There was a lot of people
who were laughing
behind my back about it.

Lucky for me,
I was out there making it

and I was unaware that
there was this kind
of skepticism, this cynicism,

with me directing a movie.

The movie was
a massive success.

We collected an enormous
many, many millions
of dollars in overages.

It was nominated
for I believe,

12 nominations
and it won nine Oscars

including Best Director
and Best Film.

You know I think, when you are
in the movies sometimes

the hair on your arm
can stand up.

Or on the back of your neck.
Sometimes you can't
stop a smile.

Those are the emotions
that I believe in

when the curtain opens up

and the lights go out
and the movie starts.

So, Frans changed our lives
by helping us make the movie

and the movie changed
our lives
because it was so successful.

It changed all our lives.

[ANJA SPEAKING DUTCH]

ROZEMYN:
Although he traveled a lot

while I was growing up,

I never missed my father.

He was always there
when it mattered.

And furthermore,
I didn't know any better.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

ROZEMYN: At what age
do you become self-aware?

For me,
it was our time in Malibu,

when I was three, four
and five years old.

Those are my first memories

and it made a huge impression
on me.

During the summers, we joined
my father in Los Angeles.

We would arrive
at LAX Airport.

Two stretch limousines
would be waiting for us.

One for our family
and another for our luggage.

We were chauffeured
to the luxurious
Malibu beach house

where we enjoyed
a private tennis court,

a swimming pool and a jacuzzi.

On weekdays, we were picked up
by a yellow school bus

to go to a summer camp
in Topanga Canyon,

where we could ride horses,

play sports
and do other fun activities.

Our playmates were the kids
of Dustin Hoffman.

Bruce Willis and Demi Moore
were our neighbors.

There was always
a lot going on.

Stars would walk in and out
of the house.

It was a special
and magical time

a little girl
can only dream of.

[ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC PLAYING]

[SINGING ALONG]

Platoonwas
an enormous success.

And that one really knocked
the industry on its ass.

Because here we are
with a $5.8 million movie

shooting in the Philippines
with no actors,

no stars that no one knew of.

And we pulled it off.

Oliver had served
in Vietnam during the war,

so he knew
what he was talking about.

And it was
a very serious project.

But not everybody
was interested.

Especially not in America.

You needed, apart from
the foreign distributors,

you really needed a deal
with an American studio.

It is all about your script.

If your script is good,
you are going to get it done.

First I read 50 pages
in my office

and I called Oliver.

I said,
"I'm doing your movie."

He says, "Not so fast."

"Go home and read the script,
and then call me tomorrow."

My wife
and I were in bed together.

She was reading a magazine.
I started reading.

I was nailed to the story.

When I was finished,
I was sobbing.

I had tears in my eyes.

We were trying to get
the most difficult shots

in the most difficult manner
possible.

In the rain, special effects,
no big budgets, nothing.

It was just a struggle
from day to day.

It was the first real look

of how people were getting
limbs blown off, dying.

And the stress
of what war was like.

And I think that hit
a nerve here.

They had never seen anything
like this.

They were used
to the John Wayne
type of movies,

where it was all about America
and America being triumphant.

It wasn't real.

This was real because
Oliver had been in Vietnam
under two tours of duty.

The moment we cut the movie,
we showed it.

It took off.
There was a fire to it,
I can't tell you.

That is really about
populist timing.

In the sense that
we hit the right moment
in time. That button.

So, we released it
in six theaters,

two in LA, two in New York
and two in Toronto.

On opening weekend,
which was in December of 1986,

we would see veterans standing
in line

around the blocks
in New York and LA,

trying to get in.

And the letters, the outpour
and the media,

which is often
the most cynical off all,

was like puppy dogs
in our laps,

looking for stories.

There was a line that ran
for two blocks.

And I see all these people
and I had no idea
that it was for our movie.

And as I drove up

we realized
that it was all for Platoon.

The nominees
for Best Picture are...

ROZEMYN: In the year 1986,

the films Credit Lyonnais
had financed

received 27 nominations
and won eight of them.

This was much more any studio
achieved that year.

And the winner is Platoon.

[APPLAUSE]

Thank you very much,
I am deeply grateful.

My profound thanks
to John Daly and Derek Gibson.

For sharing my passion
when all others passed.

And Frans Afman
of Credit Lyonnais,

for having the money
in the Philippines jungle
when I really needed it.

It was every banker's dream
after that,

that the winner
of the Best Picture

of the academy award
would mention their bank.

It is the only time
I've ever heard a producer
thank its bank for anything

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

It was a slight exaggeration,

because I never went
to the set.

I never went
to the Philippines.

We just transferred
the money...

The money from Rotterdam
to a local bank in Manila.

He had that Dutch confidence.
They're always like...
Very convincing.

And as a banker,
I thought he was a godsend.

I was just a kid from Ohio.

You know? And I didn't really
have any experience
with European...

Style or personality.

And Frans is an example of
what I call an old school,
you know, style.

He had his emotions,
he had things
that would upset him.

But you know, he was always
so careful and polite.

I always wondered
when he would sleep
with your mother

if he would take the suit off?

I used to kid him about it.

And he would laugh, you know,
give me a nervous laugh.

I remember going
to the Cannes Film Festival

and walking down the Croisette
when Frans was there.

He was more famous
than most of the movie stars.

"Hello, Frans.
How are you Frans?"

You know, people that were
obviously sucking up to him.

He was a target.

He was the best game in town.

Nice to see
that you are alive,
that you are here.

And kicking.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

Some of the movie stars
Frans was very friendly with,

because he was the banker
for the people that used him.

Like Sly Stallone for example.

He loved it.
He loved the experiences of...

Interacting with everybody.

With the big movie stars
to just business guys.

And I think everybody
respected him
and they liked him.

They especially liked him
when he used to walk around
the Hotel du Cap

with a briefcase full of cash.

Especially Golan-Globus,
when they got money from him

they said,
"By the way, you know,
we want our money in cash."

A lot of the companies
were colorful characters.

And his great quote
that he said was,

"If you are going to swim
in the ocean,

"you better swim
with the sharks."

And he just...
He knew how to deal with them

and use their wisdom
of the film industry

to his advantage,
to make sure that
his film loans got repaid.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

How many times
he turned to me and said,

"I wouldn't lend this guy
ten cents, Buckley.

"But we will drink
his champagne."

I said, "Okay."

ROZEMYN: With all the success
my father had

it was rumored
that some clients paid him
money on the side.

Besides this, to let him
keep working during the summer

he was provided with
a beach house for our family.

Later in the industry,

it was said that
he was bribed.

Is taking a summer beach house
a bribe?

Yes, technically it is.

[LAUGHING]

You know, it is funny,

the word "Bribery"
is a tough word to use,
I would say.

But all bankers, at that time,

and I think
some to this day today too,

will probably have perks.

All of my bankers

would come to the King games,
I'd buy them dinners.

Various things.

We didn't view it
as a bribery.
They were friends.

Frans's take was that,

this is the way
things are done in Hollywood.

It is a way for me
to keep an eye on the money.

Whether it fit
the rules of Credit Lyonnais?

Frans said it did.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

I cannot accept any gift
from any client.

And I cannot give any gift
to any client.

But I'm invited all the time
to go on people's yachts
and to do things.

If I went, I would report it

and my institution would allow
me to do that,

then I wouldn't consider it
a bribe.

It wasn't hidden or secret
or running around
and doing clandestine things.

Or Frans saying,

"If you don't give me
this house

"I'll... The loan's going
to get called."

Bruce McNall had promised me
some financial reports.

And he did arrive at a party
and he handed...

He handed a brown envelope
to me

in front of 150 people,
that were standing there.

And guess
what was in the envelope?

His financial reports.

And later on they invented
that is was
$100,000 or $200,000 in cash.

And you think that
I would be stupid

if I ever would be bribed

that I would accept the bribe
in front of 150 people
at a reception?

You think I'm that stupid?

ROZEMYN:
The productive partnership

between Cannon and my father
was put to the test

when Yoram and Menahem
wanted to expand
and diversify Cannon

more than my father
was willing to finance.

When they failed to listen
to his arguments

my father decided to stop
financing them

and resigned from their board.

Not long afterwards,

they were close to bankruptcy

and in desperate need
of money.

They made a tremendous amount
of movies

out of their studios
on Sunset.

They saw a chance to get out

to cash out.
And they cashed out
to Parretti.

And God love them for it.

During
the Cannes Film Festival,

I was asked by Yoram Globus
and Menahem Golan

to come to their suite.

And they wanted me to meet
a certain Mr. Parretti.

And from the first moment on,

I understood that this man

was not going to be a friend
of mine.

Because he shouted at me
when I came into the room

and he was pointing his finger
at me, "You, Afman..."

"How much money you make
in the bank?"

And I said, "That is none
of your business."

"I triple it. I triple it."
I said, "What do you mean?"

He said "Yeah, you come inside
my company."

I said, "But then I would have
to leave the bank."

"No, it's not necessary,
you stay in the bank

"and at the same time,
you work for me as well."

I said, "Okay, nonsense."

Parretti basically tries
to bribe Frans right there
in the meeting.

All right?

And of course, Frans,
very politely, you know,
"Okay, I understand that."

He was talking
about 400 million

he was going to put
in the Cannon group.

I said, "Fine, you can pay
off some of the loans

"that we had made
to the Cannon group."

He said, "No, but you have
to loan it to me."

I went outside and said,
"Yoram, you come with me."

I said,
"Look, it's very simple.

"I dislike this man immensely.

"So, I am not going
to work with him.

"So, you have to go
to another bank.

"I don't want to be involved."

And, so we went back
into the room

and then I told him,
"Mr. Parretti, there is
nothing I can do for you."

And then he became very,
very angry and said,

"Well, I'm going to talk
to your boss,

"Georges Vigon,
he's in Rotterdam,

"and I'm going to fly out
with my private plane.
And you will lose your job."

I was representing Cannon
at the time.

And this crazy,
little Italian showed up.

And said
he wanted to buy Cannon.

I asked him some questions,

he knew nothing
about the industry

he knew nothing
about financing.

It was just hilarious
that this guy showed up.

And so, I literally got up
from the meeting and I said,

"I have long meetings
and I have short meetings.

"This is going
to be a short meeting.

"'Cause you don't know
what you are doing."
So, I left.

I found out that, indeed,
my chairman, whom I admired

because of his intelligence

and his support
for my business,

had entered into
a relationship
with Mr. Parretti.

My second in command
said to me,

"Frans, we have something
to report to you."

I said,
"Okay, what is going on?"

He said, "We are already
400 million out

"on the Parretti
and Fiorini company."

I said, "I don't know,

"why am I not supposed to know
this? I am responsible."

He said, "Well, the chairman
of the bank
took the responsibility

"and we had to execute
the orders."

And I immediately went
straight to the office
of Vigon and said,

"What is going on? I mean,
I know nothing about this."

He said, "Yeah, it's my
responsibility."

I said, "Yeah,
but it's my people
you're using!"

Fiorini and Parretti had been
bribing all the way to the top
of Credit Lyonnais

from Haberer on down.

Including the socialist party
kingpins, we later learned.

And I know that, you know,
this was something that,

you know,
would drive your father crazy.

Because every bit of integrity
that he cared about,

every sense of people
that he cared about.

And he recommended,
told the bank not to do it.

Parretti, with
Credit Lyonnais's help

ended up buying Cannon.

So, A, I had to deal with him
until then Parretti fired me

as counsel for Cannon,

because I had walked out
of the meeting with him.

And then I was hired
by Credit Lyonnais

to oversee
the subsequent investment,

which was Cannon buying MGM.

ROZEMYN: Buying Cannon
was not enough
for Giancarlo Parretti.

On the contrary,

it was just the beginning.

And he had his eyes set
on something much bigger.

His next target
was one of the oldest

and largest studios
in Hollywood.

Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer,
better known as MGM.

Here comes Parretti,

boulders into town,
with money bags.

Well, Dino's eyes
go big, you know,

"You know what, this guy wants
to buy MGM?

"He wants to buy something?
He wants to buy?"

"You know,
let me show him around.
This guy looks serious."

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

We spent
a lot of time together.

We traveled together,
we vacationed together.

He actually is the godfather
to Carolina.

He was the best man
at our wedding.

So, I mean, immediately
Dino was seduced

and there was
this partnership.

Dino came to him and said,
"Frans, you got to stop
being against Parretti."

This is bad for you
and the bank.

And he said, "I am never going
to stop being against
Parretti. I know what he is."

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

It is a business
that is so pressurized

and so capital-driven

that whoever helped you
ten years ago
might be your friend.

But your best friend is
the one
that's helping you today.

I saw with great sadness,

a lot of my account managers
were all of a sudden working

exclusively on
the Parretti and the Fiorini
accounts.

And to the detriment of our
other relationships
that we had

with companies like Hemdale

and Carolco and you name them,
our other major clients.

And I saw the whole structure
that we had erected

for
the entertainment business,

that was going to fall apart.

And that was the day that
I resigned from the bank.

Voluntarily,
totally voluntarily.

And Vigon said,
"Well, you have to stay
until the first of July.

"And then you will become
a consultant to the board."

They didn't want to lose me.

I say that
in a little arrogant way,

but it was the absolute truth.

Frans bowed out, but he
nominally stayed involved

because Cannon was
his major client,

so they had a lot
of existing films going on.

I see this all the time
in industries where

a banker will stay
as a consultant
for a few years

to work out troubled loans,

because he has
the personal relationships
with those people

at the highest level
of the companies that
he's dealing with.

Maybe I shouldn't
have done it,

maybe I shouldn't have stayed
on as a consultant.

Everybody was leaving.
My whole team was going
to other banks

or people took
early retirement,

or people started
to work for clients.

I had 12 account managers,

and only one stayed
with the bank

with
the entertainment division.

So, Credit Lyonnais ended up

with no knowledge about
the entertainment business
anymore.

Because
all the knowledge had gone.

And then some
French people came
and they took it over.

It is one of
the major disappointments
in my life

as a banker
for the film industry

which I always considered
to be a labor of love.

And I have done it
with passion

and I never had anything to do

with crooks and thugs,
et cetera,

I walked away from them.

The attention
that Parretti brought in

was just totally out of whack.

And it folded, I think, what,
within two or three years.

I mean,
he burned through the money,

he basically hopped on a plane

and got the hell out of Dodge.

And kind of,
left a wreckage behind him.

Jack Lang,
who was the culture minister,

at request of the president
of the republic,

called Haberer and said,
"You give Fiorini and Parretti
whatever they want."

All right?
That's why it happened.

And then they tried to dump it
all off on the Dutch branch,

try to make it seem as if,
"Oh, it's some film stuff
by Frans Afman."

They tried to blame him
for it.

And... But, you know,
I remembered the way he'd...

I don't know how I would have
handled something

that unjust and that terrible
and outrageous.

But he handled it
with the same aplomb,

sense of humor and character

that he did everything else.

Just took it and...

You know,
he and I would always joke,

"We're gonna have to write
the book one day."

Which we never did, you know?

Because we both knew
what really happened.

This is Hollywood
and memories are short.

So, for those of us
who were around then,

it can still be a hot button.

Today, people will just look
at you puzzled,

"That was a mess, wasn't it?"

And you just say,
"Yeah, that was a mess."

And you just move on.

ROZEMYN: After my father left
the bank in 1991,

there was a lack of finance
for a while in Hollywood.

The independent producers
had to find other sources
of capital.

They went out
and raised money publicly,

they over-leveraged themselves

they started to get into
the exhibition business,

they just went way beyond
their core competency
in many cases.

Hemdale had financed
back to back

Academy Award winning
Best Pictures.

For Platoon,
which costs 5.8 million

and did 136 million
at the US box office.

And The Last Emperor,

which they paid eight million
for domestic rights alone

and it did 42 million
at the US box office.

And guess what?

The company lost money
on both.

Their accounting methods
were abhorrent.

And you talk about
most of them,

not all of them,

but most of them had

a luxurious lifestyle
for their owner.

The debt that I had
was growing and growing
and growing.

It ended for me, when in 1994,

I received a subpoena

basically requesting documents
and information, from the FBI.

It is not a good thing
you want to get by the way.

It's not a good thing to have.

Immediately, all my entities
were put to bankruptcy,

which included
Gladden Entertainment.

I went from, you know,

two helicopters, three jets

mansions all over the place

to living
in a small apartment.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

The companies that went out
of business eventually,

didn't have your father
behind them.

I think that if your father
would have continued,

he would have found ways
to help all these companies.

I think what happens,
businesses go like this

and in the tough times,
you need good bankers

and people to understand
and help you get
through those time periods.

He was gone

and it was very simple.

Pay the money
or you are out of business.

And it doesn't quite work
like that,

sometimes you can't come up
with the money on this date.

Another great one
is John Miller.

John has supported
many companies

who could have gone under
and he didn't...

He found ways
to help them and,

you know, find solutions,
which your father always did.

Banks have become
more corporate, you know,

since Wall Street days.

They seem to roll over
bigger amounts of money.

Like, they make studio loans,

unfortunately,
the studios get stronger

but you don't have
the Frans Afmans out there,

who are backing
individual film makers.

Your father was unafraid.

He had good sense.
He had to make good choices.

But he did. And some of
the men and women around him,

I'm sure,
thought long and hard,

they bet on a person,
who'd never, in my case,
ever made a movie.

He built some of the greatest

producer/production
/sales companies
in the business.

He helped create

that whole independent
business,
which still runs till today.

No one took his place.

No one had the...

The goods.
They didn't know how to do it.

He was old fashioned,

old fashioned
in the sense that,

whatever I can do to help you,
I will.

And I will support you

and I will be there
in really difficult times.

Frans actually changed
my life entirely,

from being an employee
to enabling me to be an owner.

Which I have been ever since,
for the last 25 years.

He was totally
changed my life.

Yes, he was, you know,
more than influential.

He literally changed my life.

ROZEMYN: What happened to you?

Oh, I went to,
I got many offers from banks.

I became
an independent consultant.

I worked for
a number of banks.

European, Japanese banks,
that I advised.

And they thought
that I had still
a very good reputation.

For me, it was sort of,
post-graduate

in the film business.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

He accepted

the cycles of business.

"I had my time."

"The world has changed."

You know?
And he was educated enough

that he was too close
to the Credit Lyonnais scandal

to not be affected by it.

I think it is like

a Greek hero.

You peak and then you go down.

He peaked.

I mean, it's better
to have peaked

than never to have peaked
at all.

[PAUL VERHOEVEN
SPEAKING DUTCH]

FRANS: From time to time

I realize that
I have to clean up things

and that
I don't leave a total mess

for my kids, they have to
sort it out, so...

I have to throw away
a lot of things.

The cleaning up time
has to start very, very soon,

I realize that.

[ROZEMYN SPEAKING DUTCH]

Forming bonds, you know?
Forming friendships.

And one of
the best friendships
I ever stumbled into was...

I am so sorry about him
passing away.

A little emotional.
I loved your father.

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

[ROZEMYN SPEAKING DUTCH]

[SPEAKING DUTCH]

[MAN SINGING IN DUTCH]