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--Captions by VITAC--
www.vitac.com
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CAPTIONS PAID FOR BY
DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS
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[ INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS ]
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♪♪
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Man:
EVERYBODY SETTLED?
12
00:01:10,275 --> 00:01:13,375
IT'S AMAZING TO THINK THAT,
IN 2018,
13
00:01:13,379 --> 00:01:17,099
WE'RE SEEING SUCH AN UPSURGE
OF EXTREMISM AND IDEOLOGIES
14
00:01:17,103 --> 00:01:20,550
THAT I THINK WE THOUGHT
PERHAPS WERE OF THE PAST,
15
00:01:20,551 --> 00:01:23,688
THE "NEVER AGAIN."
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00:01:23,689 --> 00:01:25,205
HI.
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00:01:25,206 --> 00:01:26,546
SO YOU SEE THESE DIVISIONS.
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00:01:26,551 --> 00:01:29,171
YOU SEE THE RISE
IN DEEP POLARIZATION,
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00:01:29,172 --> 00:01:31,861
THE MAINSTREAMING OF EXTREMISM
20
00:01:31,862 --> 00:01:34,342
IN WAYS THAT
WE COULDN'T HAVE IMAGINED.
21
00:01:37,862 --> 00:01:41,282
I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN LONDON
OF VERY MIXED BACKGROUND.
22
00:01:41,283 --> 00:01:43,095
MY FATHER WAS YUGOSLAV.
23
00:01:43,103 --> 00:01:46,343
I WATCHED, AS A VERY YOUNG GIRL,
YUGOSLAVIA,
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00:01:46,344 --> 00:01:48,173
A PLACE THAT I KNEW
INTIMATELY --
25
00:01:48,174 --> 00:01:49,552
I'VE FAMILY, FRIENDS,
26
00:01:49,553 --> 00:01:52,411
I SPENT EVERY HOLIDAY
AS A CHILD THERE --
27
00:01:52,413 --> 00:01:56,274
REALLY RIP ITSELF
TO GENOCIDAL SHREDS.
28
00:01:56,275 --> 00:01:58,685
AND IT WAS EXTRAORDINARY
TO WATCH THAT TRANSFORMATION.
29
00:01:58,689 --> 00:02:01,409
18 MONTHS,
AND WE WERE IN A BLOODBATH.
30
00:02:03,551 --> 00:02:06,721
AND IT WAS OVERWHELMING TO ME.
31
00:02:06,724 --> 00:02:10,447
I GOT RADICALIZED
BY THAT EXPERIENCE.
32
00:02:10,448 --> 00:02:14,448
I WANTED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY
TO DO SOMETHING.
33
00:02:19,344 --> 00:02:21,863
SO, THE INSTITUTE
FOR STRATEGIC DIALOGUE
34
00:02:21,864 --> 00:02:25,381
IS AN INCUBATOR OF RESPONSES
TO THIS RISING CHALLENGE
35
00:02:25,382 --> 00:02:28,378
GLOBALLY OF EXTREMISM,
OF HATE, OF POLARIZATION.
36
00:02:28,379 --> 00:02:29,828
WHO'S IN
THE SITUATION ROOM?
37
00:02:29,829 --> 00:02:32,136
AND WHO NEEDS TO BE
BROUGHT TO THE TABLE?
38
00:02:32,137 --> 00:02:34,897
AND SINCE 2006, WE'VE BEEN
IN THE BUSINESS
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00:02:34,898 --> 00:02:38,826
OF LOOKING AT WHAT COULD
POSSIBLY WORK TO UNDERSTAND,
40
00:02:38,827 --> 00:02:40,826
IN-DEPTH, THE PROCESSES
OF RADICALIZATION,
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00:02:40,827 --> 00:02:43,477
BUT ALSO OF HOW PEOPLE
COME OUT OF THESE MOVEMENTS.
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00:02:43,482 --> 00:02:45,136
[ HORNS HONKING ]
43
00:02:45,137 --> 00:02:51,067
♪♪
44
00:02:51,068 --> 00:02:53,278
Meeink: WHAT YOU'RE KNOWN FOR
IN PHILADELPHIA --
45
00:02:53,279 --> 00:02:57,135
EVERYONE'S KNOWN FROM
WHAT STREET YOU GREW UP ON.
46
00:02:57,137 --> 00:03:00,097
YOU'RE INHERENTLY BORN INTO YOUR
GANG OF YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, SO...
47
00:03:00,103 --> 00:03:02,693
AND IT'S ALWAYS THAT WAY.
IT'S US AND THEM.
48
00:03:06,896 --> 00:03:08,895
Meeink: HOW LONG HAVE YOU
LIVED HERE FOR?
49
00:03:08,896 --> 00:03:10,066
HOW LONG
HAVE YOU BEEN HERE?
50
00:03:10,068 --> 00:03:11,068
PERSONALLY?
YEAH.
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00:03:11,069 --> 00:03:12,207
58 YEARS.
IN THIS HOUSE?
52
00:03:12,208 --> 00:03:13,616
YEAH.OKAY, SO, YEAH, I USED TO BE
53
00:03:13,620 --> 00:03:15,100
ONE OF THE LITTLE KIDS
ON THE STREET BACK --
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00:03:15,103 --> 00:03:16,792
I REMEMBER YOUR VOICE
OR SOMETHING THERE.
55
00:03:16,793 --> 00:03:19,243
YEAH, THOMASINE WAS MY MOM.
THOMASINE AND JOHN.
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00:03:19,244 --> 00:03:20,964
OH, THOMASINE, YEAH.
57
00:03:20,965 --> 00:03:22,925
I REMEMBER YOU WERE BAD, TOO,
WHEN YOU WERE LITTLE.
58
00:03:22,931 --> 00:03:25,136
[ LAUGHS ]
59
00:03:25,137 --> 00:03:29,136
THIS IS THE HOUSE I GREW UP IN
OVER 30 YEARS AGO.
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00:03:29,137 --> 00:03:30,477
IT DIDN'T LOOK THIS NICE.
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00:03:30,482 --> 00:03:32,757
IT WASN'T THAT BAD,
BUT IT WAS...
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00:03:32,758 --> 00:03:35,447
IT DIDN'T LOOK THIS NICE.
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00:03:35,448 --> 00:03:37,757
MY STEPFATHER MOVED IN
WHEN I WAS 9,
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00:03:37,758 --> 00:03:40,826
AND I LIVED THERE WITH HIM
FOR ABOUT FOUR YEARS.
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00:03:40,827 --> 00:03:43,067
AND THE BEATINGS AND STUFF, THEY
STARTED KIND OF RIGHT AWAY --
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00:03:43,068 --> 00:03:44,688
I MEAN, PROBABLY WITHIN
THE FIRST WEEK
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00:03:44,689 --> 00:03:46,719
OF HIM MOVING IN WITH ME.
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00:03:50,137 --> 00:03:53,447
I WASN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO TALK
AT THE DINNER TABLE.
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00:03:53,448 --> 00:03:57,447
DUMBASSES LIKE ME WOULD RUIN
HIS APPETITE, HE'D SAY.
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00:03:57,448 --> 00:03:59,788
I HAD A BULLY LIVING IN MY HOME.
71
00:04:01,724 --> 00:04:03,104
I HATED MY STEPFATHER.
72
00:04:03,105 --> 00:04:05,283
I MEAN, IT WAS PROBABLY MY FIRST
HATRED IN THE WORLD,
73
00:04:05,284 --> 00:04:07,095
WAS TOWARDS THIS MAN.
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00:04:10,965 --> 00:04:12,654
MY STEPFATHER KICKED ME OUT,
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00:04:12,655 --> 00:04:14,995
SO I HAD TO GO MOVE WITH MY DAD,
SO I WENT TO AN ALL-BLACK SCHOOL
76
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,000
IN THE MIDDLE
OF THE SCHOOL YEAR.
77
00:04:19,448 --> 00:04:22,274
I KNEW EVERY DAY --
EVERYDAY --
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00:04:22,275 --> 00:04:23,685
SOMEBODY WAS GONNA SAY
SOMETHING TO ME,
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00:04:23,689 --> 00:04:25,688
AND IF I'D DARE TO SAY
ANYTHING BACK,
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00:04:25,689 --> 00:04:27,239
YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT
THEY WANTED, YOU KNOW,
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00:04:27,241 --> 00:04:28,411
'CAUSE THEN THEY HAVE
JUSTIFICATION
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00:04:28,413 --> 00:04:31,412
THAT I STARTED THE FIGHT
OR SOMETHING STUPID.
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00:04:31,413 --> 00:04:33,932
AND THEY ALWAYS USED MY RACE
AS AMMUNITION
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00:04:33,933 --> 00:04:35,971
TO SAY SOMETHING TO ME,
YOU KNOW?
85
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,690
AND I THINK THESE KIDS, TO ME,
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00:04:39,691 --> 00:04:41,378
WERE REPRESENTING
THE WHOLE COMMUNITY.
87
00:04:41,379 --> 00:04:42,659
AND IT WASN'T THE WHOLE
COMMUNITY JUMPING ME.
88
00:04:42,660 --> 00:04:44,995
IT WAS JUST THESE KIDS,
BUT IT MADE THAT DIVIDE
89
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,378
BETWEEN US AND THEM
MORE SOLID.
90
00:04:48,379 --> 00:04:52,378
I MEAN, HATRED WAS JUST
BUILDING UP IN ME, PERIOD.
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00:04:52,379 --> 00:04:54,069
THAT SUMMER...
THAT SUMMER I GOT TO GO
92
00:04:54,070 --> 00:04:57,585
UP TO LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA.
93
00:04:57,586 --> 00:05:00,585
MY COUSIN WAS UP THERE,
AND I FOUND MY SAFE PLACE.
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00:05:00,586 --> 00:05:03,585
All: SIEG HEIL!
SIEG HEIL! SIEG HEIL!
95
00:05:03,586 --> 00:05:05,926
Meeink: SO, WHEN I GO UP TO
MY COUSIN'S HOUSE IN LANCASTER,
96
00:05:05,931 --> 00:05:09,031
HE HAD, LIKE, NEWSPAPER ARTICLES
ABOUT NEO-NAZIS ON HIS WALL,
97
00:05:09,034 --> 00:05:10,863
AND HE HAD, LIKE,
A PICTURE OF HITLER,
98
00:05:10,864 --> 00:05:13,001
AND HE HAD, LIKE,
A SWASTIKA FLAG.
99
00:05:13,002 --> 00:05:16,550
AND SO, HE WOULD HAVE ALL THESE
OTHER BIG, BAD SKINHEAD GUYS
100
00:05:16,551 --> 00:05:17,899
COME OVER HIS HOUSE EVERY NIGHT,
101
00:05:17,900 --> 00:05:19,716
AND SO THEY WOULD SIT AROUND
AND TALK ABOUT
102
00:05:19,724 --> 00:05:22,895
HOW THE JEWS SECRETLY RUN
THE FEDERAL RESERVE
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00:05:22,896 --> 00:05:24,996
AND THEY SIPHON OFF MONEY
OFF THE COUNTRY,
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00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,930
AND THE JEWS ARE
THE SEED OF SATAN,
105
00:05:27,931 --> 00:05:30,931
AND YOU ARE, YOU KNOW,
THE VICTIM OF THAT RIGHT NOW.
106
00:05:32,689 --> 00:05:34,339
IF SOMEONE SAYS
I'M A VICTIM OF SOMETHING,
107
00:05:34,344 --> 00:05:36,484
I'M ALREADY LIKE,
"I FEEL LIKE I'M A VICTIM.
108
00:05:36,485 --> 00:05:40,412
MAN, I'M GETTING THE ****
KNOCKED OUT OF MY EVERYWHERE."
109
00:05:40,413 --> 00:05:42,590
AND I REMEMBER I JUST ENJOYED
EVERY NIGHT
110
00:05:42,591 --> 00:05:44,306
WHEN THEY ALL SHOWED UP
'CAUSE I KNEW
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00:05:44,310 --> 00:05:47,140
THAT SOMEONE WAS GONNA
EVENTUALLY ASK ME ABOUT ME.
112
00:05:49,344 --> 00:05:51,284
SOME GUY SLAPPED ME IN MY
PUNK-ROCK HAIRCUT AND SAID,
113
00:05:51,285 --> 00:05:55,235
"WHEN YOU GONNA SHAVE THIS
**** OFF YOUR HEAD, MAN?"
114
00:05:55,241 --> 00:05:56,831
SO THEY ALL TOOK ME OUT
ON THE BACK PORCH THAT NIGHT
115
00:05:56,832 --> 00:05:58,205
AND SHAVED MY HEAD.
116
00:05:58,206 --> 00:06:00,306
AND THAT WAS IT --
I WAS IN.
117
00:06:00,310 --> 00:06:02,378
[ EXHALES SHARPLY ]
118
00:06:02,379 --> 00:06:05,826
THERE IS OFTEN TRAUMA
IN THESE INDIVIDUAL CASES
119
00:06:05,827 --> 00:06:08,274
OF RADICALIZATION EARLY ON.
120
00:06:08,275 --> 00:06:11,135
LIKE FRANK MEEINK --
IDENTITY CRISES,
121
00:06:11,137 --> 00:06:14,857
A SENSE OF A LACK OF BELONGING,
"WHO AM I? WHERE DO I BELONG?"
122
00:06:14,862 --> 00:06:17,450
A DESPERATE NEED
FOR BELONGING TO SOMETHING.
123
00:06:17,451 --> 00:06:19,447
AND I THINK WE SEE,
FROM THE OUTSIDE,
124
00:06:19,448 --> 00:06:23,788
EXTREMIST GROUPS
AS MANIFESTLY VIOLENT AND ANGRY,
125
00:06:23,793 --> 00:06:25,553
BUT ACTUALLY WHAT THEY OFFER
THEIR MEMBERS
126
00:06:25,554 --> 00:06:30,550
IS LOVE AND SUPPORT AND FAMILY
AND BELONGING AND CARE.
127
00:06:30,551 --> 00:06:32,721
All: SIEG HEIL!
SIEG HEIL! SIEG HEIL!
128
00:06:32,724 --> 00:06:35,033
Meeink: AND THE SKINHEADS,
THEY WOULD ALWAYS SAY TO ME,
129
00:06:35,034 --> 00:06:37,033
"FRANK, GOD'S TELLING YOU
THE TRUTH NOW.
130
00:06:37,034 --> 00:06:39,694
HE'S JUST USING ME AS A TOOL
TO REVEAL THE TRUTH TO YOU.
131
00:06:39,695 --> 00:06:42,585
HE NEEDS YOU.
HE NEEDS MORE SOLDIERS.
132
00:06:42,586 --> 00:06:45,756
HE NEEDS MORE ANGELS
TO RUIN SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
133
00:06:45,758 --> 00:06:47,718
AND AMERICA'S
SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
134
00:06:47,724 --> 00:06:50,033
DO YOU WANT TO TAKE
THAT TASK ON?"
135
00:06:50,034 --> 00:06:52,071
I'M A TEAM GUY.
I'M A SPORTS GUY.
136
00:06:52,072 --> 00:06:53,688
I'M GOING,
"THIS IS MY TEAM NOW.
137
00:06:53,689 --> 00:06:55,339
AND GOD CHOSE ME?
138
00:06:55,344 --> 00:06:57,343
LIKE, I'M A WELFARE KID
FROM PHILADELPHIA.
139
00:06:57,344 --> 00:06:58,834
HE CHOSE --
HE WANTS ME ON THIS TEAM?
140
00:06:58,835 --> 00:07:02,477
HE WANTS TO GIVE IT ALL?
I'LL GIVE HIM MY ALL."
141
00:07:02,482 --> 00:07:04,654
AND I DID, FOR YEARS.
142
00:07:04,655 --> 00:07:06,654
All:
SIEG HEIL! SIEG HEIL!
143
00:07:06,655 --> 00:07:09,065
Meeink: I GET INTO THIS
FULL-HEARTEDLY, 100%.
144
00:07:09,068 --> 00:07:10,408
I BELIEVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT.
145
00:07:10,413 --> 00:07:12,311
I GO ON TO GO DO SOME TV SHOWS
FOR THE MOVEMENT...
146
00:07:12,312 --> 00:07:13,658
GO ON OVER AND TALK
TO HIM BESIDE YOU.
147
00:07:13,659 --> 00:07:15,205
YOU'VE BEEN SAYING THIS TO ME
AT EVERY COMMERCIAL.
148
00:07:15,206 --> 00:07:18,686
DO YOU THINK YOU'RE SCARED JUST
BECAUSE OF OTHER PEOPLE
149
00:07:18,689 --> 00:07:21,929
WHEN -- NOT BECAUSE
THEY'RE JUST DIFFERENT?
150
00:07:21,931 --> 00:07:23,341
NO, I DON'T...
I AIN'T SCARED.
151
00:07:23,344 --> 00:07:25,284
I AIN'T NOTHING...
I AIN'T AFRAID OF ANYBODY ELSE.
152
00:07:25,285 --> 00:07:29,235
I'M JUST... I'M SO PROUD
OF MY RACE, AND I WOULD...
153
00:07:29,241 --> 00:07:30,861
LIKE I SAID, I WOULD
LIVE OR DIE FOR MY RACE
154
00:07:30,862 --> 00:07:32,762
IF ANYTHING EVER
CAME DOWN TO IT.
155
00:07:32,763 --> 00:07:35,067
I COMMIT CRIME CONSISTENTLY.
156
00:07:35,068 --> 00:07:37,068
I'M SELLING GUNS.
157
00:07:39,172 --> 00:07:41,172
AND I KIDNAP ONE OF OUR RIVALS.
158
00:07:46,448 --> 00:07:48,028
I HAD HEARD THAT HE WAS
KIND OF TRYING TO STEAL
159
00:07:48,034 --> 00:07:51,553
SOME OF MY NEW RECRUITS,
AND I JUST COULDN'T HAVE THAT.
160
00:07:51,554 --> 00:07:53,721
SO I CALLED HIM UP
AROUND CHRISTMASTIME,
161
00:07:53,724 --> 00:07:55,384
SAID WE WERE HAVING A CHRISTMAS
PARTY AND THAT IT'S NEUTRAL,
162
00:07:55,385 --> 00:07:56,654
WE'RE ALL COOL.
163
00:07:56,655 --> 00:07:58,895
AND HE CAME OVER,
AND THERE WAS NO PARTY.
164
00:07:58,896 --> 00:08:02,616
IT WAS JUST A COUPLE OF US
WAITING FOR HIM.
165
00:08:02,620 --> 00:08:04,450
Man: AIN'T NOBODY.
THEY'RE GONE. THEY'RE GONE.
166
00:08:04,451 --> 00:08:06,757
I DIDN'T THINK HE WOULD EVER GO
TO THE COPS, YOU KNOW?
167
00:08:06,758 --> 00:08:09,788
IT'S PART OF THE GAME.
168
00:08:09,793 --> 00:08:11,654
[ CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKING ]
169
00:08:11,655 --> 00:08:13,545
JANUARY OR FEBRUARY,
THEY ARRESTED ME
170
00:08:13,551 --> 00:08:15,861
AND CHARGED ME AS AN ADULT
FOR AGGRAVATED KIDNAPPING --
171
00:08:15,862 --> 00:08:17,552
17 YEARS OLD.
172
00:08:20,724 --> 00:08:23,553
PLEA BARGAIN WAS, I BELIEVE,
THREE TO FIVE YEARS,
173
00:08:23,554 --> 00:08:25,551
BUT IT WAS A THREE-YEAR
DEFINITE.
174
00:08:29,965 --> 00:08:31,654
Man: GOOD EVENING.
175
00:08:31,655 --> 00:08:36,545
FRANK'S STORY,
IT'S A STORY OF TRANSFORMATION.
176
00:08:36,551 --> 00:08:40,688
IT'S A STORY OF REDEMPTION.
177
00:08:40,689 --> 00:08:42,828
Meeink: I GOT OUT OF PRISON.
I AIN'T GOT A JOB.
178
00:08:42,829 --> 00:08:44,654
NO ONE'S HIRING A DUDE
WITH A SWASTIKA,
179
00:08:44,655 --> 00:08:45,995
AGGRAVATED KIDNAPPING
ON HIS RECORD.
180
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,688
I MEAN, I'M JUST NOT
A HIREE-TYPE PERSON.
181
00:08:48,689 --> 00:08:51,029
AND A BUDDY OF MINE CAME TO ME
AND SAID HE CAN GET ME A JOB
182
00:08:51,034 --> 00:08:53,516
DOING ANTIQUE FURNITURE
AT AN ANTIQUES SHOW.
183
00:08:53,517 --> 00:08:54,967
I SAID, "DEFINITELY,
I'LL TAKE THE JOB."
184
00:08:54,968 --> 00:08:57,235
HE GOES, "THE DUDE'S A JEW
THAT RUNS THE COMPANY.
185
00:08:57,241 --> 00:08:59,171
YOU STILL WANT THE JOB?"
186
00:08:59,172 --> 00:09:02,412
AND I WAS LIKE, "YEAH.
IF I DON'T GOT TO TALK TO HIM
187
00:09:02,413 --> 00:09:04,242
AND I COULD JUST WORK,
ABSOLUTELY."
188
00:09:04,243 --> 00:09:06,101
AND HE GOES, "OH,
I TOLD KEITH ALL ABOUT YOU,
189
00:09:06,103 --> 00:09:08,381
SAID YOU'RE A NEO-NAZI DUDE,
JUST GOT OUT OF THE JOINT."
190
00:09:08,382 --> 00:09:10,239
HE GOES, "HE DOESN'T GIVE
A RAT'S ASS WHAT YOU BELIEVE --
191
00:09:10,241 --> 00:09:12,761
JUST DON'T BREAK HIS FURNITURE."
HE JUST WAS ONE OF THOSE GUYS,
192
00:09:12,762 --> 00:09:14,408
AND HE JUST FIT
EVERY STEREOTYPE.
193
00:09:14,413 --> 00:09:15,900
AND SO,
END OF THE WEEKEND COMES,
194
00:09:15,901 --> 00:09:18,205
AND I THINK HE'S NOT GONNA
PAY ME MY MONEY.
195
00:09:18,206 --> 00:09:19,616
WHEN HE CAME UP TO ME,
196
00:09:19,620 --> 00:09:21,590
I'D SET OUT THESE LAND MINES
IN THE CONVERSATION,
197
00:09:21,591 --> 00:09:23,756
HOPING HE'D STEP ON THEM
AND SO WE COULD FIGHT.
198
00:09:23,758 --> 00:09:25,278
I KNEW HE WAS NOT GONNA
PAY ME MY MONEY --
199
00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:26,715
HE WAS GOING TO "JEW" ME.
200
00:09:26,724 --> 00:09:27,974
AND HE COMES OUT AND GOES,
"I OWE YOU MONEY, DON'T I?"
201
00:09:27,975 --> 00:09:29,825
AND I WAS LIKE,
"YES, YOU DO. YES, YOU DO.
202
00:09:29,827 --> 00:09:31,547
YOU OWE ME SOME MONEY."
AND HE'S LIKE, "HOW MUCH?"
203
00:09:31,551 --> 00:09:33,690
I SAID, "$300 -- HUNDRED BUCKS
A DAY," OR WHATEVER.
204
00:09:33,691 --> 00:09:35,277
HE'S LIKE, "OH, THAT'S RIGHT."
205
00:09:35,278 --> 00:09:36,785
"YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.
THAT'S RIGHT,"
206
00:09:36,793 --> 00:09:38,481
YOU KNOW, LIKE,
JUST BEING A JERK.
207
00:09:38,482 --> 00:09:40,522
AND HE PULLS OUT THIS BIG WAD
OF MONEY THAT HE MADE,
208
00:09:40,523 --> 00:09:43,516
AND HE'S LIKE,
"HERE'S ONE, TWO, HERE'S THREE."
209
00:09:43,517 --> 00:09:44,967
HE'S LIKE, "HOLD ON.
HERE'S AN EXTRA HUNDRED BUCKS.
210
00:09:44,968 --> 00:09:46,335
YOU'RE A REALLY GOOD WORKER."
211
00:09:46,344 --> 00:09:47,688
SO, HE GOES TO DROP ME OFF,
212
00:09:47,689 --> 00:09:48,969
AND HE SAYS,
"WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING?"
213
00:09:48,970 --> 00:09:50,995
AND I SAID,
"I DON'T DO ANYTHING.
214
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,205
I HAVE A SWASTIKA ON MY NECK."
215
00:09:54,206 --> 00:09:56,446
AND HE GOES, "WELL, WHY DON'T
YOU COME WORK FOR ME?"
216
00:09:56,448 --> 00:09:59,168
AND HE GAVE ME A FULL-TIME JOB.
217
00:09:59,172 --> 00:10:00,520
I'M STILL A NEO-NAZI.
218
00:10:00,521 --> 00:10:03,787
I STILL WEAR MY NAZI BOOTS
EVERY DAY AND EVERYTHING.
219
00:10:03,793 --> 00:10:06,140
AND, FINALLY, ONE DAY,
I BROKE SOMETHING.
220
00:10:06,141 --> 00:10:09,097
AND THAT WAS HIS BIG RULE, MAN,
"JUST DON'T BREAK MY FURNITURE."
221
00:10:09,103 --> 00:10:11,451
AND SO I'M LOOKING UP AT THIS
JEWISH GUY, AND I'M LIKE,
222
00:10:11,452 --> 00:10:14,858
"I AM SO SORRY. I AM SO STUPID,"
AND ALL I'M THINKING ABOUT
223
00:10:14,862 --> 00:10:16,102
IS HOW MUCH HE'S GONNA
TAKE OUT OF MY PAY,
224
00:10:16,103 --> 00:10:17,792
AND HE'S PROBABLY
GONNA FIRE ME.
225
00:10:17,793 --> 00:10:19,141
AND HE GIVES ME
MY WHOLE THING OF MONEY,
226
00:10:19,142 --> 00:10:20,717
DOESN'T OPEN IT UP
AND TAKE SOME OUT OR NOTHING.
227
00:10:20,724 --> 00:10:24,280
HE'S LIKE, "HERE YOU GO.
I'LL SEE YOU MONDAY, RIGHT?"
228
00:10:24,281 --> 00:10:26,235
AND I JUST FELT LIKE CRYING.
I WAS LIKE,
229
00:10:26,241 --> 00:10:30,031
"YEAH, I'LL SEE YOU MONDAY.
I'LL SEE YOU MONDAY."
230
00:10:30,034 --> 00:10:32,210
SOON AS I GOT HOME,
I RIPPED MY BOOTS OFF MY FEET.
231
00:10:32,211 --> 00:10:34,446
I JUST -- I THREW THEM OUT
IN MY MOM'S BASEMENT,
232
00:10:34,448 --> 00:10:36,478
AND, TO THIS DAY, I DON'T KNOW
WHERE THEY EVER WENT.
233
00:10:36,482 --> 00:10:39,585
LIKE, I NEVER LOOKED
AT THEM AGAIN.
234
00:10:39,586 --> 00:10:41,336
IT ISN'T A SYSTEMATIC THING.
235
00:10:41,344 --> 00:10:44,619
WE CAN'T LEGISLATE
BEING A GOOD HUMAN BEING.
236
00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:46,550
AND PEOPLE WOULD THROW BOTTLES
AT US AND SNOWBALLS,
237
00:10:46,551 --> 00:10:47,689
AND THEY'D THROW BRICKS AT US,
238
00:10:47,690 --> 00:10:49,099
AND THEY'D SCREAM
NASTY THINGS AT US
239
00:10:49,103 --> 00:10:50,213
AS WE MARCHED
THROUGH THE STREETS
240
00:10:50,214 --> 00:10:52,996
OF WEST CHESTER OR SPOKANE
OR WHEREVER.
241
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,895
NEVER ONCE DID I DUCK
A BOTTLE AND GO,
242
00:10:55,896 --> 00:10:59,205
"WHOA, I BETTER RETHINK
MY BELIEFS HERE."
243
00:10:59,206 --> 00:11:01,786
THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.
244
00:11:01,793 --> 00:11:03,964
BUT WHEN YOU START
HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH ME,
245
00:11:03,965 --> 00:11:05,335
I DIDN'T KNOW
HOW TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT.
246
00:11:05,344 --> 00:11:07,142
I'D EASILY FIGHT AGAINST
A BOTTLE BEING THROWN.
247
00:11:07,143 --> 00:11:09,207
"THERE'S MY ENEMY. THERE HE IS.
HE'S RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF ME.
248
00:11:09,208 --> 00:11:11,716
HE THREW THE BOTTLE AT ME.
I'M GONNA KICK HIS ASS."
249
00:11:11,724 --> 00:11:13,554
WHEN YOU DIDN'T HAVE
THAT INTERACTION WITH ME,
250
00:11:13,555 --> 00:11:15,591
I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE IT.
251
00:11:15,592 --> 00:11:20,406
SO WE HAVE TO GO AND HAVE THOSE
REAL CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE.
252
00:11:20,413 --> 00:11:25,619
I WAS ANGRY, AND I KNEW THAT
I HAD A LIKING FOR VIOLENCE,
253
00:11:25,620 --> 00:11:27,619
BUT I HAD STILL THOUGHT THAT,
DEEP DOWN INSIDE,
254
00:11:27,620 --> 00:11:28,760
I THOUGHT I WAS A GOOD PERSON.
255
00:11:28,761 --> 00:11:30,788
I STILL THOUGHT THAT WAY
OF MYSELF.
256
00:11:30,793 --> 00:11:32,901
I THOUGHT IT WAS ABOUT
WHAT WAS RIGHT AND NOT RIGHT.
257
00:11:32,902 --> 00:11:34,996
I THOUGHT THAT WHAT THEY WERE
TEACHING ME WAS RIGHT.
258
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,720
I ALWAYS THOUGHT --
259
00:11:36,724 --> 00:11:38,692
UNTIL THE END, I REALLY THOUGHT
260
00:11:38,693 --> 00:11:41,519
THAT THIS WAS 100%
THE RIGHT THING TO BELIEVE IN.
261
00:11:43,655 --> 00:11:46,825
Havlicek: IT'S NOT A GIVEN
THAT SOMEBODY DERADICALIZES,
262
00:11:46,827 --> 00:11:50,687
AND IT IS A HARD PROCESS
BECAUSE MANY OF THESE GROUPS
263
00:11:50,689 --> 00:11:55,136
PROVIDE A VERY IDEALISTIC
SENSE OF PURPOSE AND MISSION
264
00:11:55,137 --> 00:11:58,407
THAT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE
TO FIND IN THEIR DAILY LIVES.
265
00:11:58,413 --> 00:12:01,933
BUT THE ONE THING I THINK
WE STILL DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND
266
00:12:01,934 --> 00:12:04,791
IS WHAT TAKES SOMEBODY
OVER THE EDGE
267
00:12:04,793 --> 00:12:08,930
FROM ADHERING TO
EXTREMIST IDEOLOGIES
268
00:12:08,931 --> 00:12:11,381
TO VIOLENCE.
269
00:12:13,586 --> 00:12:17,306
♪♪
270
00:12:17,310 --> 00:12:19,208
Man:
THE EXPERIMENT WAS DEVISED
271
00:12:19,209 --> 00:12:22,616
BY A PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY
AT STANFORD -- PHILIP ZIMBARDO.
272
00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:23,970
IT GREW OUT OF A COURSE
273
00:12:23,971 --> 00:12:27,995
CALLED "THE PSYCHOLOGY
OF IMPRISONMENT."
274
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,520
THE PURPOSE OF THE EXPERIMENT
WAS TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND,
275
00:12:30,521 --> 00:12:34,587
TO FEEL, WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE
A PRISONER OR A PRISON GUARD.
276
00:12:36,862 --> 00:12:40,342
THE CENTRAL TENET OF
ALL EXTREMIST IDEOLOGY
277
00:12:40,344 --> 00:12:43,861
IS A SYSTEM OF
THE DEHUMANIZATION OF THE OTHER.
278
00:12:43,862 --> 00:12:47,516
SO ONCE YOU SET UP
A FRAME OF MIND
279
00:12:47,517 --> 00:12:49,447
WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY
US AGAINST THEM,
280
00:12:49,448 --> 00:12:54,308
YOU CAN DO UNBELIEVABLE THINGS
IN TERMS OF DIVIDING PEOPLE
281
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:56,100
AND TURNING THEM
AGAINST EACH OTHER.
282
00:12:56,103 --> 00:12:59,483
Haslam: 1971, PHILIP ZIMBARDO
AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY
283
00:12:59,484 --> 00:13:01,792
AND HIS COLLEAGUES --
HE PLACED AN ADVERT IN, I THINK,
284
00:13:01,793 --> 00:13:05,033
THE PALO ALTO NEWSPAPER
ASKING FOR PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE
285
00:13:05,034 --> 00:13:08,171
IN A STUDY OF PRISON LIFE.
286
00:13:08,172 --> 00:13:10,552
AND HE HAS CONSTRUCTED,
IN THE BASEMENT
287
00:13:10,553 --> 00:13:12,971
OF THE PSYCHOLOGY DEPARTMENT
AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY,
288
00:13:12,972 --> 00:13:14,475
A PRISON.
289
00:13:14,482 --> 00:13:17,279
HE GETS THESE VOLUNTEERS,
WHO WERE STUDENTS,
290
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,305
AND THEY ARE RANDOMLY
ASSIGNED TO TWO GROUPS.
291
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:21,619
ROUGHLY HALF OF THEM
ARE PRISONERS,
292
00:13:21,620 --> 00:13:23,826
HALF OF THEM ARE GUARDS.
293
00:13:23,827 --> 00:13:25,407
Zimbardo: THE FIRST DAY,
THE PRISONERS WERE PICKED UP
294
00:13:25,413 --> 00:13:27,550
UNEXPECTEDLY BY THE POLICE,
295
00:13:27,551 --> 00:13:30,070
AND THAT PUT THEM, MOST OF THEM,
IN A STATE OF SHOCK.
296
00:13:30,071 --> 00:13:32,378
WE -- THEY WERE HUMILIATED.
THEY WERE STRIPPED NAKED.
297
00:13:32,379 --> 00:13:33,999
THEY WERE DELOUSED.
298
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,410
Haslam: AND THE IDEA,
AS TOLD BY ZIMBARDO, IS THAT,
299
00:13:37,413 --> 00:13:39,973
HAVING ASSIGNED THEM
TO THOSE TWO ROLES,
300
00:13:39,974 --> 00:13:43,785
HE STANDS BACK AND OBSERVES
WHAT IS GONNA HAPPEN.
301
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,830
AND HIS QUESTION IS,
WHAT WERE THE CONDITIONS
302
00:13:48,831 --> 00:13:51,377
THAT WOULD LEAD PEOPLE
TO OPPRESS,
303
00:13:51,379 --> 00:13:53,899
TO HATE,
TO BRUTALIZE OTHER PEOPLE?
304
00:13:56,517 --> 00:13:59,337
AND WHAT HE OBSERVES
AND WHAT HE REPORTS IS THAT,
305
00:13:59,344 --> 00:14:02,378
OVER THIS COURSE OF THE STUDY --
SIX DAYS --
306
00:14:02,379 --> 00:14:06,409
THE GUARDS BECOME INCREASINGLY
BRUTAL TOWARDS THE PRISONERS.
307
00:14:06,413 --> 00:14:07,895
THEY OPPRESS THEM.
308
00:14:07,896 --> 00:14:11,406
Man:
WELCOME BACK, 5704.
309
00:14:11,413 --> 00:14:12,964
THEY'RE GETTING THEM
TO WEAR CHAINS.
310
00:14:12,965 --> 00:14:14,335
THEY'RE GETTING THEM
TO WASH OUT TOILETS.
311
00:14:14,344 --> 00:14:15,624
THEY'RE GETTING THEM
TO DO PUSH-UPS.
312
00:14:15,625 --> 00:14:17,619
DOWN! UP!
313
00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:19,378
DOWN! UP!
314
00:14:19,379 --> 00:14:21,518
THEN THEY'RE PUTTING THEIR FEET
IN THEIR BACKS
315
00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:24,067
AS THEY DO THE PUSH-UPS,
AND THEY'RE SHOUTING AT THEM.
316
00:14:24,068 --> 00:14:26,378
NOW THAT'S
MORE LIKE IT!
317
00:14:26,379 --> 00:14:28,518
FIVE MORE SETS.
YOU GO THERE AND DO IT AGAIN.
318
00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:30,097
AND THE PRISONERS,
FOR THEIR PART,
319
00:14:30,103 --> 00:14:33,309
ARE BECOMING
INCREASINGLY DEPRESSED
320
00:14:33,310 --> 00:14:35,550
AND DISPIRITED AND BROKEN.
321
00:14:38,275 --> 00:14:41,135
AND THIS ESCALATES
AND ESCALATES AND ESCALATES
322
00:14:41,137 --> 00:14:44,617
TO A POINT WHERE YOU'VE GOT
A KIND OF, LIKE, HELL ON EARTH.
323
00:14:47,241 --> 00:14:49,101
AND AT THAT POINT,
THE STORY GOES,
324
00:14:49,103 --> 00:14:51,619
ZIMBARDO'S GIRLFRIEND
TURNS UP AND SAYS,
325
00:14:51,620 --> 00:14:53,380
"WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?"
AND HE'S KIND OF...
326
00:14:53,381 --> 00:14:55,719
ZIMBARDO, WHO'S RUNNING
THE WHOLE OPERATION, SAYS,
327
00:14:55,724 --> 00:14:57,553
"OH, MY GOD.
THIS IS A NIGHTMARE" --
328
00:14:57,554 --> 00:14:59,380
BECAUSE HE'S GOT
CAUGHT UP IN IT, TOO --
329
00:14:59,381 --> 00:15:02,789
AND SAYS, "WE MUST STOP THIS,"
AND THE WHOLE THING STOPS.
330
00:15:04,793 --> 00:15:07,033
HIS STORY THEN IS,
WHAT HAS GONE ON HERE IS,
331
00:15:07,034 --> 00:15:09,481
PEOPLE WILL CONFORM NATURALLY
332
00:15:09,482 --> 00:15:11,722
TO THE REQUIREMENTS
OF THEIR ROLE.
333
00:15:11,724 --> 00:15:14,002
SO WHEN WE OBSERVE BRUTALITY
IN THE WORLD,
334
00:15:14,003 --> 00:15:15,970
THIS IS NOTHING
ABOUT THE PERSON,
335
00:15:15,971 --> 00:15:18,375
AND IT'S EVERYTHING
ABOUT THE ROLES
336
00:15:18,379 --> 00:15:20,619
THAT ARE REQUIRED OF THEM
IN A GIVEN SITUATION.
337
00:15:20,620 --> 00:15:24,620
HERE HE COMES.
LAMBS TO THE SLAUGHTER.
338
00:15:26,965 --> 00:15:28,715
PRISONER ARRIVED!
339
00:15:28,724 --> 00:15:32,002
Haslam: ONE DAY IN 2001,
I GOT A CALL FROM THE BBC,
340
00:15:32,003 --> 00:15:34,240
AND THEY'D READ OR HEARD
ABOUT SOME OF OUR RESEARCH.
341
00:15:34,241 --> 00:15:36,930
AND THEY SAID, "LOOK,
WE'RE INTERESTED IN REVISITING
342
00:15:36,931 --> 00:15:38,791
THE STANFORD PRISON STUDY,
343
00:15:38,793 --> 00:15:40,553
AND WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED
IN DOING THAT?"
344
00:15:40,554 --> 00:15:41,861
EDWARDS.
345
00:15:41,862 --> 00:15:45,964
MR. EDWARDS, YOU ARE
PRISONER NUMBER 637.
346
00:15:45,965 --> 00:15:47,964
THIS WAS 20 YEARS AGO.
WE WERE YOUNG.
347
00:15:47,965 --> 00:15:51,615
WE WERE FOOLISH.
SO WE SAID, "OKAY."
348
00:15:53,448 --> 00:15:54,718
[ BUZZING ]
349
00:15:55,862 --> 00:15:59,342
EFFECTIVELY, WE STARTED WITH
THE SAME SETUP AS ZIMBARDO.
350
00:15:59,344 --> 00:16:02,970
WE TOOK... I THINK IT WAS 15 MEN.
THEY WEREN'T STUDENTS.
351
00:16:02,971 --> 00:16:05,925
THEY WERE MEMBERS
OF THE GENERAL POPULATION.
352
00:16:05,931 --> 00:16:08,589
AND WE ASSIGNED THEM TO BE
PRISONERS AND GUARDS.
353
00:16:08,590 --> 00:16:10,406
AND THEN WE WATCHED
WHAT HAPPENED
354
00:16:10,413 --> 00:16:13,619
AND JUST LET THE GUARDS
RUN THE PRISON.
355
00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:16,690
NOW, IT WAS AT THAT POINT THAT
WE REALLY GOT THE FIRST SHOCK
356
00:16:16,691 --> 00:16:20,339
BECAUSE, ACTUALLY, THE GUARDS
DIDN'T IDENTIFY WITH THEIR ROLE.
357
00:16:20,344 --> 00:16:22,521
THEY WERE ACTUALLY
A BIT RELUCTANT
358
00:16:22,522 --> 00:16:25,067
TO TAKE ON THE ROLE OF GUARDS.
THEY THOUGHT, "MM, NOT SURE."
359
00:16:25,068 --> 00:16:27,067
I DON'T WANT TO BE A GUARD,
TO BE HONEST, REALLY.
360
00:16:27,068 --> 00:16:29,757
- [ TALKING INDISTINCTLY ]
- [ LAUGHING ]
361
00:16:29,758 --> 00:16:32,308
I'D RATHER BE A PRISONER,
REALLY, IN ALL HONESTY.
362
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:33,660
Haslam: MORE PARTICULARLY,
363
00:16:33,661 --> 00:16:37,065
THEY SHOWED ABSOLUTELY
NO APPETITE, YOU KNOW,
364
00:16:37,068 --> 00:16:40,098
TO INEVITABLY CONFORM
TO THE REQUIREMENTS
365
00:16:40,103 --> 00:16:43,002
OF THE PRISON AND START
TO BRUTALIZE THE PRISONERS.
366
00:16:43,003 --> 00:16:45,898
THE GUARDS DON'T REALLY WANT
TO ACT AS A GROUP.
367
00:16:45,899 --> 00:16:47,756
THEY DON'T WANT
TO TAKE ON THEIR ROLES.
368
00:16:47,758 --> 00:16:49,587
ALL OF THEM HATE
INEQUALITY,
369
00:16:49,588 --> 00:16:52,306
DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW,
BE TYRANNICAL GUARDS,
370
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:53,790
DON'T WANT TO BE
OPPRESSED PRISONERS.
371
00:16:53,793 --> 00:16:55,311
Haslam: WE KNEW SOMETHING
WAS MISSING.
372
00:16:55,312 --> 00:16:57,210
WE KNEW SOMETHING HAD GONE ON,
BUT WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS,
373
00:16:57,211 --> 00:16:58,446
AND WE WERE THINKING,
374
00:16:58,448 --> 00:17:00,028
"OH, WE MUST BE DOING
SOMETHING WRONG HERE."
375
00:17:00,034 --> 00:17:01,484
WELL, ACTUALLY, THEN,
AT THAT POINT,
376
00:17:01,485 --> 00:17:03,342
WE WENT BACK
AND LOOKED VERY CLOSELY
377
00:17:03,344 --> 00:17:05,554
AT WHAT MATERIAL WAS AVAILABLE
FROM THE STANFORD STUDY.
378
00:17:05,555 --> 00:17:07,101
[ TAPE WHIRRING ]
379
00:17:07,103 --> 00:17:09,619
Man: TEST.
TEST ONE, TWO.
380
00:17:09,620 --> 00:17:11,930
Haslam: AND THEN WE GOT
ACCESS TO A TAPE
381
00:17:11,931 --> 00:17:15,241
WHICH HAS JUST BEEN DIGITIZED
IN THE STANFORD ARCHIVE.
382
00:17:28,448 --> 00:17:31,168
ON THAT TAPE,
WHAT YOU HEAR IS A MEETING
383
00:17:31,172 --> 00:17:35,032
BETWEEN ZIMBARDO'S
PRISON WARDEN,
384
00:17:35,034 --> 00:17:38,554
WHO'S ACTUALLY ONE OF HIS
COLLABORATORS, DAVID JAFFE,
385
00:17:38,555 --> 00:17:41,895
AND A GUARD, JOHN MARK.
386
00:17:41,896 --> 00:17:44,756
AND THIS GUARD HAS BEEN
A BIT RELUCTANT
387
00:17:44,758 --> 00:17:47,718
TO KIND OF GET IN THE MIX.
388
00:18:01,586 --> 00:18:03,686
WHEN YOU HEAR THE GUARD
BEING TOLD HOW TO BEHAVE,
389
00:18:03,689 --> 00:18:05,099
I THINK THAT'S A SHOCK.
390
00:18:13,206 --> 00:18:15,716
THE MORE THAT WE WENT INTO IT,
THE MORE WE REALIZED,
391
00:18:15,724 --> 00:18:18,624
ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, ZIMBARDO
HAD DONE STUFF THAT WE HADN'T.
392
00:18:18,625 --> 00:18:22,410
AND THE KEY REASON WHY WE
HADN'T FOUND THAT BEHAVIOR
393
00:18:22,413 --> 00:18:23,622
ON THE PART OF THE GUARDS
394
00:18:23,623 --> 00:18:25,278
WAS WE HAD NEVER LED THEM
TO BELIEVE
395
00:18:25,279 --> 00:18:26,515
THAT THAT WAS WHAT WE WANTED.
396
00:18:26,517 --> 00:18:27,964
[ CHALK SCRAPING ]
397
00:18:27,965 --> 00:18:31,025
SO, ESSENTIALLY, WE'RE SETTING
UP A PHYSICAL PRISON HERE
398
00:18:31,034 --> 00:18:32,999
TO STUDY WHAT THAT DOES.
399
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,410
Haslam: WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THE STUDIES,
400
00:18:35,413 --> 00:18:37,173
WE JUST FOCUS
ON THE PARTICIPANTS
401
00:18:37,174 --> 00:18:39,032
AND WHY THEY DID WHAT THEY DID.
402
00:18:39,034 --> 00:18:41,999
BUT A CRITICAL PIECE
OF THE JIGSAW,
403
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,480
IF YOU LIKE,
IS WHAT WAS ZIMBARDO DID
404
00:18:44,482 --> 00:18:47,378
TO MAKE THEM WANT TO DO
WHAT THEY DID.
405
00:18:47,379 --> 00:18:48,828
Zimbardo:
WE CAN CREATE BOREDOM,
406
00:18:48,829 --> 00:18:50,617
CAN CREATE A SENSE
OF FRUSTRATION,
407
00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:52,278
CAN CREATE A SENSE
OF FEAR IN THEM.
408
00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:54,895
Havlicek: THE STANFORD PRISON
EXPERIMENT TELLS US
409
00:18:54,896 --> 00:18:57,656
THERE IS NO SUCH THING
AS A VIOLENT TYPE.
410
00:18:57,657 --> 00:18:59,205
THIS IS ANYBODY.
411
00:18:59,206 --> 00:19:01,895
THIS CAN BE ANYBODY...
412
00:19:01,896 --> 00:19:04,136
IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT.
413
00:19:04,137 --> 00:19:06,547
AUTHORITY PLAYS A ROLE, THEN,
414
00:19:06,551 --> 00:19:09,757
AND LEADERSHIP, FOR CERTAIN.
415
00:19:09,758 --> 00:19:13,688
AND WHAT'S REALLY SHOCKING IS
THE SPEED AT WHICH THAT HAPPENS.
416
00:19:13,689 --> 00:19:17,929
THAT WAS THE THING THAT STRUCK
ME IN WATCHING YUGOSLAVIA
417
00:19:17,931 --> 00:19:22,688
GOING FROM PEACEFUL
TO GENOCIDAL IN 18 MONTHS.
418
00:19:22,689 --> 00:19:25,479
AND I THINK THIS IS WHAT WE SEE
WITH THE STANFORD EXPERIMENT --
419
00:19:25,482 --> 00:19:29,757
THE SPEED AT WHICH YOU
CAN INCITE THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR
420
00:19:29,758 --> 00:19:31,274
IN ORDINARY PEOPLE.
421
00:19:31,275 --> 00:19:32,545
THEY ARE NOT CRAZY.
422
00:19:32,551 --> 00:19:35,585
THESE ARE NOT MENTALLY DERANGED
INDIVIDUALS.
423
00:19:35,586 --> 00:19:38,336
THESE ARE NORMAL PEOPLE.
424
00:19:38,344 --> 00:19:42,141
Haslam: ZIMBARDO RAN STRAIGHT OUT
AFTER HAVING PRODUCED THE FINDINGS
425
00:19:42,142 --> 00:19:43,656
AND TOLD THE WORLD ABOUT THEM.
426
00:19:43,657 --> 00:19:46,405
HE WENT STRAIGHT INTO
SOME CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS,
427
00:19:46,413 --> 00:19:48,659
AND I THINK THERE WAS
A LOT OF BUY-IN FOR THAT
428
00:19:48,660 --> 00:19:49,895
FOR QUITE A LONG TIME.
429
00:19:49,896 --> 00:19:52,236
THERE WAS A MASSIVE RESURGENCE
430
00:19:52,241 --> 00:19:55,031
IN THE IRAQ WAR
AROUND ABU GHRAIB
431
00:19:55,034 --> 00:19:56,594
BECAUSE, ACTUALLY,
WHAT YOU SAW THERE
432
00:19:56,595 --> 00:20:00,476
WERE IMAGES THAT SEEMED TO BE
VERY MUCH ALIGNED
433
00:20:00,482 --> 00:20:02,832
WITH THE KIND OF IMAGES
IN THE STANFORD STUDY,
434
00:20:02,833 --> 00:20:05,826
AND THE STORY HE TOLD
IN THAT CONTEXT WAS,
435
00:20:05,827 --> 00:20:08,656
"LOOK, WHERE YOU SAW
BRUTALITY IN ABU GHRAIB,
436
00:20:08,657 --> 00:20:11,095
THIS WAS NOT BECAUSE
THE GUARDS WERE BRUTAL.
437
00:20:11,103 --> 00:20:13,279
IT WAS NOTHING ABOUT
THE PEOPLE INVOLVED.
438
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,545
IT WAS EVERYTHING
ABOUT THE SITUATION."
439
00:20:15,551 --> 00:20:16,861
AND AT THE TIME,
440
00:20:16,862 --> 00:20:19,902
OURSELVES AND OTHER PEOPLE
WERE STARTING TO SAY,
441
00:20:19,903 --> 00:20:23,926
"ACTUALLY, LEADERSHIP HAD TO BE
PART OF THE STORY HERE."
442
00:20:23,931 --> 00:20:27,171
IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE'RE DOING
BECAUSE WE'RE JUST NASTY PEOPLE.
443
00:20:27,172 --> 00:20:29,342
WE'RE DOING THIS
BECAUSE THAT CAUSE
444
00:20:29,344 --> 00:20:31,723
IS REPRESENTED AS SOMETHING
THAT'S GLORIOUS
445
00:20:31,724 --> 00:20:34,895
AND IS VALORIZED AS SOMETHING
446
00:20:34,896 --> 00:20:37,654
THAT IS NOBLE AND GOOD.
447
00:20:37,655 --> 00:20:39,065
Havlicek:
IN THE CONTEXT OF ABU GHRAIB,
448
00:20:39,068 --> 00:20:41,688
I WOULD BE ASKING
THESE SOLDIERS,
449
00:20:41,689 --> 00:20:45,205
"IN YOUR MIND,
WHO GAVE YOU THAT ORDER?
450
00:20:45,206 --> 00:20:50,306
YOUR ENTIRE TRAINING
IS TO FOLLOW COMMAND.
451
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:54,447
WHERE DID YOU FEEL THAT
THAT COMMAND CAME FROM?"
452
00:20:54,448 --> 00:21:00,618
♪♪
453
00:21:00,620 --> 00:21:04,100
"HOW DID YOU FEEL
IT WAS JUSTIFIED?
454
00:21:04,103 --> 00:21:06,999
DID YOU HAVE ANY SENSE
OF REPERCUSSION?
455
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,970
DID YOU FEEL THAT YOU WOULD BE
TAKEN TO TASK FOR THIS BEHAVIOR?
456
00:21:10,971 --> 00:21:12,995
DID YOU FEEL IT WAS RIGHT?
457
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,550
DID YOU ULTIMATELY FEEL
THAT IT WAS RIGHT?"
458
00:21:17,896 --> 00:21:24,476
♪♪
459
00:21:24,482 --> 00:21:31,274
♪♪
460
00:21:31,275 --> 00:21:34,925
Havlicek: THE WAY IN WHICH
LEADERS MOBILIZE THEIR FOLLOWERS
461
00:21:34,931 --> 00:21:37,930
IS TO INSTILL IN THEIR FOLLOWERS
A SENSE OF
462
00:21:37,931 --> 00:21:43,481
IMMEDIATE EXISTENTIAL THREAT
OR HUGE MORAL REWARD.
463
00:21:43,482 --> 00:21:46,309
YOU HAVE A HIGHER PURPOSE.
464
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:51,378
SO NO MATTER HOW SAD OR SMALL
YOUR LIFE WAS BEFORE,
465
00:21:51,379 --> 00:21:54,549
YOU ARE NOW SOMEBODY.
466
00:21:54,551 --> 00:21:56,211
Morton: I SAW THE WORLD
IN BLACK AND WHITE
467
00:21:56,212 --> 00:21:57,546
FROM THE BEGINNING.
468
00:21:57,551 --> 00:21:59,211
AS FAR BACK AS I CAN REMEMBER,
469
00:21:59,212 --> 00:22:03,376
I WAS ALWAYS NOT SEARCHING FOR
A TRUTH THAT BELONGED TO ME,
470
00:22:03,379 --> 00:22:07,239
BUT ONE SINGLE OBJECTIVE TRUTH.
471
00:22:07,241 --> 00:22:11,654
I WENT THROUGH SEVERE ABUSE
IN THE EARLY STAGES OF MY LIFE.
472
00:22:11,655 --> 00:22:14,615
THAT LED ME TO RUN AWAY
WHEN I WAS 16,
473
00:22:14,620 --> 00:22:17,860
TO FLEE THE ABUSE.
474
00:22:17,862 --> 00:22:21,999
I STARTED SELLING DRUGS
TO SURVIVE.
475
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,516
I GOT CAUGHT WITH A LOT
OF DRUGS, TRUTH BE TOLD.
476
00:22:25,517 --> 00:22:28,717
SO I ENDED UP SITTING IN PRISON
FOR 11 MONTHS.
477
00:22:28,724 --> 00:22:30,764
AND, OF COURSE, THERE'S
NOTHING TO DO IN JAIL BUT READ,
478
00:22:30,765 --> 00:22:32,274
SO OF COURSE I DID,
479
00:22:32,275 --> 00:22:35,025
AND I FOUND AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY
OF MALCOLM X.
480
00:22:35,034 --> 00:22:36,664
THAT'S ACTUALLY
WHAT LED ME TO ISLAM.
481
00:22:36,665 --> 00:22:39,235
I HADN'T READ THE QUR'AN.
482
00:22:39,241 --> 00:22:41,139
I COULD RELATE
WITH MALCOLM'S STORY.
483
00:22:41,140 --> 00:22:42,897
HE HAD A VERY TRAUMATIC
UPBRINGING,
484
00:22:42,898 --> 00:22:45,616
BUT THEN HE WAS EDUCATED
IN GOOD SCHOOLS, LIKE ME,
485
00:22:45,620 --> 00:22:48,450
AND I WANTED TO BE
THE RADICAL THAT MALCOLM WAS.
486
00:22:48,451 --> 00:22:49,788
THIS REVIVAL...
487
00:22:49,793 --> 00:22:53,274
IT TOOK ME ABOUT A YEAR
TO ACTUALLY CONVERT,
488
00:22:53,275 --> 00:22:55,895
AND I BECAME
YOUNUS ABDULLAH MUHAMMAD.
489
00:22:55,896 --> 00:22:57,276
- WHAT IS YOUR NAME?
- MUHAMMAD.
490
00:22:57,277 --> 00:22:59,274
- MUHAMMAD WHAT?
- YOUNUS ABDULLAH MUHAMMAD.
491
00:22:59,275 --> 00:23:00,615
Man: WHAT'S YOUR NAME,
THE ONE YOU'RE BORN WITH?
492
00:23:00,620 --> 00:23:03,688
YOUNUS ABDULLAH MUHAMMAD.
THAT'S MY NAME.
493
00:23:03,689 --> 00:23:06,379
- WHO DO YOU REPRESENT?
- I REPRESENT ISLAM.
494
00:23:09,137 --> 00:23:11,277
Morton: I TOTALLY TRANSFORMED
MY LIFE THROUGH ISLAM.
495
00:23:11,278 --> 00:23:16,405
I DIDN'T USE DRUGS, ALCOHOL
FOR 14 YEARS,
496
00:23:16,413 --> 00:23:20,447
AND I FOUND ISLAM
WAS SORT OF PURE FOR ME.
497
00:23:20,448 --> 00:23:24,205
I WAS OPPOSED TO CONSUMERISM.
498
00:23:24,206 --> 00:23:26,205
I FELT LIKE PEOPLE
DIDN'T UNDERSTAND
499
00:23:26,206 --> 00:23:28,096
THAT THERE WAS
A DEEPER COMPONENT TO LIFE
500
00:23:28,103 --> 00:23:32,067
THAN SIMPLY OBTAINING THINGS.
501
00:23:32,068 --> 00:23:34,688
SO, I LEARNED ABOUT A NEW --
502
00:23:34,689 --> 00:23:38,895
SORT OF THE SALAFI JIHADIST
MENTALITY, OR THE IDEOLOGY,
503
00:23:38,896 --> 00:23:40,376
AND I STARTED TO ABSORB IT.
504
00:23:40,379 --> 00:23:43,339
OUR HATRED AND ENMITY EXTENDS
TO ALL THOSE
505
00:23:43,344 --> 00:23:46,483
THAT SUPPORT THE JEWISH STATE
WITH THEIR WEALTH,
506
00:23:46,484 --> 00:23:48,722
WITH THEIR WORD,
AND WITH THEIR WEAPONS.
507
00:23:48,724 --> 00:23:49,900
WE ISSUE
THE FOLLOWING...
508
00:23:49,901 --> 00:23:51,895
SO I DECIDED TO START
MY OWN ORGANIZATION.
509
00:23:51,896 --> 00:23:55,205
Reporter: THESE ARE THE BROTHERS
OF REVOLUTION MUSLIM.
510
00:23:55,206 --> 00:23:57,786
WE TELL YOU MUSLIMS
TO RISE UP.
511
00:23:57,793 --> 00:24:01,792
THEY ARE RECRUITING JUST OUTSIDE
NEW YORK'S 96th STREET MOSQUE.
512
00:24:01,793 --> 00:24:06,447
...THAT THE QUR'AN COMMANDS
THAT YOU DISAVOW
513
00:24:06,448 --> 00:24:09,277
AND MAKE HATRED AND ENMITY
BETWEEN DEMOCRACY.
514
00:24:09,278 --> 00:24:11,305
Morton: MY ORGANIZATION
WAS GONNA BE DIFFERENT.
515
00:24:11,310 --> 00:24:13,170
MY ORGANIZATION WAS GONNA STAND
ON THE CORNER AND SAY,
516
00:24:13,172 --> 00:24:16,032
"YES, I LOVE OSAMA BIN LADEN,
AND I SUPPORT HIM."
517
00:24:16,034 --> 00:24:17,834
THAT YOU SEE
THE UNITED STATES
518
00:24:17,835 --> 00:24:19,654
AS THE ENEMY
IT REALLY IS!
519
00:24:19,655 --> 00:24:22,095
IT WAS THE FIRST TIME IN
THE UNITED STATES THAT, I THINK,
520
00:24:22,103 --> 00:24:25,516
ANYBODY DID SO
IN THE POST-9/11 ARENA.
521
00:24:25,517 --> 00:24:28,237
SO EVERY FRIDAY THE MUSLIMS HAVE
522
00:24:28,241 --> 00:24:30,101
WHAT COULD BE CONSIDERED
THEIR CHURCH,
523
00:24:30,103 --> 00:24:33,242
WHERE THE IMAM GIVES
ABOUT A 45-MINUTE LECTURE,
524
00:24:33,243 --> 00:24:35,450
AND THEN EVERYBODY
PRAYS TOGETHER.
525
00:24:35,451 --> 00:24:38,277
AND FRIDAY'S PROBABLY
THE BUSIEST DAY AT THE MOSQUE.
526
00:24:38,278 --> 00:24:41,025
SO FOR FUNDRAISING PURPOSES,
RECRUITMENT PURPOSES,
527
00:24:41,034 --> 00:24:43,622
AND IN ORDER TO SHOW THAT WE
WERE ACTIVE IN THE COMMUNITY,
528
00:24:43,623 --> 00:24:45,930
WHAT WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD
COME HERE RIGHT OUT FRONT.
529
00:24:45,931 --> 00:24:48,001
THEY COULDN'T STOP US BECAUSE
THIS IS A PUBLIC STREET.
530
00:24:48,002 --> 00:24:49,410
THAT'S PRIVATE PROPERTY.
531
00:24:49,413 --> 00:24:51,412
THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING
ABOUT A PUBLIC STREET.
532
00:24:51,413 --> 00:24:53,412
SO EVEN THOUGH THEY DIDN'T
WANT US TO PREACH HERE,
533
00:24:53,413 --> 00:24:57,619
WE UTILIZED THE LAW
534
00:24:57,620 --> 00:24:59,790
IN ORDER TO JUST FORCE IT
DOWN THEIR THROATS.
535
00:24:59,793 --> 00:25:02,590
SO OUTSIDE THE MOSQUE,
WE WOULD SIT ON THE CORNER.
536
00:25:02,591 --> 00:25:04,756
WE WOULD SET UP A TABLE.
WE WOULD HAVE A BANNER.
537
00:25:04,758 --> 00:25:09,308
WE WOULD GIVE AWAY DVDs OF OUR
SCHOLAR OR OF OUR WEEKLY LESSON.
538
00:25:09,310 --> 00:25:12,860
WE ALSO HAD A DOCUMENT WE CALLED
"THE RADICAL REVIEW" --
539
00:25:12,862 --> 00:25:15,311
SHORT LITTLE HANDOUT,
GET THEM TO THE WEBSITE.
540
00:25:15,312 --> 00:25:17,340
SO THAT WAS BASICALLY
HOW WE RECRUITED.
541
00:25:17,344 --> 00:25:19,210
YOU DEFINE TERRORISM
AS GOING
542
00:25:19,211 --> 00:25:20,756
AND KILLING
AN INNOCENT CIVILIAN.
543
00:25:20,758 --> 00:25:22,308
THAT'S WHAT YOUR... HOW DO YOU...?
544
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:25,170
I DEFINE TERRORISM
AS MAKING THEM FEARFUL
545
00:25:25,172 --> 00:25:28,001
SO THAT THEY THINK TWICE
BEFORE THEY GO RAPE YOUR MOTHER
546
00:25:28,002 --> 00:25:30,278
OR KILL YOUR BROTHER
OR GO ONTO YOUR LAND
547
00:25:30,279 --> 00:25:31,615
AND TRY TO STEAL
YOUR RESOURCES.
548
00:25:31,620 --> 00:25:33,309
THROUGH TRIAL AND ERROR,
WE LEARNED THAT THERE ARE
549
00:25:33,310 --> 00:25:36,340
CERTAIN THINGS
THAT ARE INCREDIBLY BENEFICIAL
550
00:25:36,344 --> 00:25:38,210
WITH REGARD TO
GENERATING RECRUITMENT
551
00:25:38,211 --> 00:25:39,856
AND RADICALIZATION
OF OTHERS, RIGHT?
552
00:25:39,862 --> 00:25:41,136
SO, YOU HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION
553
00:25:41,137 --> 00:25:42,547
TO WHAT'S GOING ON
WITH THE KIDS ON THE STREET
554
00:25:42,551 --> 00:25:44,791
BECAUSE IF YOU'RE
A 40-YEAR-OLD RECRUITER,
555
00:25:44,793 --> 00:25:46,659
YOU'RE STILL GONNA RECRUIT
22-YEAR-OLDS
556
00:25:46,660 --> 00:25:49,065
WHEN IT COMES
TO SALAFI JIHADISM, RIGHT?
557
00:25:49,068 --> 00:25:51,378
SO YOU GOT TO UNDERSTAND
HOW THE KIDS ARE MOVING.
558
00:25:51,379 --> 00:25:55,169
AND NOW IT'S ALL ABOUT SLOGANS
AND MEMES AND VIOLENCE.
559
00:25:55,172 --> 00:25:56,516
[ GUN COCKS ]
560
00:25:56,517 --> 00:26:02,067
AND IF ISIS HAS ANYTHING
TO OFFER, IT'S VIOLENCE.
561
00:26:02,068 --> 00:26:03,788
Havlicek:
JESSE WAS VERY INFLUENTIAL.
562
00:26:03,793 --> 00:26:05,140
HE'S EXTREMELY CHARISMATIC.
563
00:26:05,141 --> 00:26:06,377
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?!
564
00:26:06,379 --> 00:26:09,826
AN AMERICAN KID ABLE
TO SPEAK TO AMERICAN KIDS.
565
00:26:09,827 --> 00:26:12,787
AND IN THAT SENSE, EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT TO THE MOVEMENT,
566
00:26:12,793 --> 00:26:14,792
BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND
BETTER THAN ANYBODY
567
00:26:14,793 --> 00:26:17,932
THE NEED TO SPEAK TO PEOPLE
IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGES,
568
00:26:17,933 --> 00:26:19,171
WITH THEIR OWN SEMANTIC,
569
00:26:19,172 --> 00:26:20,722
IN THEIR OWN
CULTURAL CONTEXT.
570
00:26:20,724 --> 00:26:24,002
THE QUR'AN SAYS VERY CLEARLY
IN THE ARABIC LANGUAGE...
571
00:26:24,003 --> 00:26:26,309
[ SPEAKING ARABIC ]
THIS MEANS "TERRORIZE THEM."
572
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:28,757
JESSE WAS PROBABLY, IN AMERICA,
573
00:26:28,758 --> 00:26:30,658
I WOULD SAY THEMOST
PROLIFIC RECRUITER
574
00:26:30,659 --> 00:26:35,855
FOR AL-QAEDA DURING THE PERIOD
OF TIME WHEN HE WAS ACTIVE.
575
00:26:35,862 --> 00:26:40,136
NUMEROUS FOILED PLOTS HAVE BEEN
LINKED BACK TO THE WEBSITE
576
00:26:40,137 --> 00:26:43,307
THAT HE CREATED
AND THAT HE MODERATED,
577
00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:46,100
SO HE WAS REALLY
IN THE MOVEMENT.
578
00:26:46,103 --> 00:26:48,520
AND THEIR PROPAGANDA
BASICALLY BEGINS
579
00:26:48,521 --> 00:26:49,897
WITH THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE --
580
00:26:49,898 --> 00:26:51,856
"THE WORLD IS AT WAR
WITH ISLAM."
581
00:26:51,862 --> 00:26:53,447
Man: ALLAHU AKBAR!
582
00:26:53,448 --> 00:26:54,968
[ GUNFIRE ]
583
00:26:56,965 --> 00:26:59,475
AND THEY CALL OUT
TO FELLOW MUSLIMS
584
00:26:59,482 --> 00:27:02,001
TO COME AND DEFEND
THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
585
00:27:02,002 --> 00:27:04,658
Man: THESE YOUNG MEN CANNOT
AFFORD TO JUST SIT AND WATCH
586
00:27:04,659 --> 00:27:06,615
AS THE AMERICAN CRUSADERS
PERPETRATED
587
00:27:06,620 --> 00:27:09,895
THE MOST HIDEOUS ATROCITIES
AGAINST THEIR MUSLIM BROTHERS.
588
00:27:09,896 --> 00:27:11,616
Callimachi: A LOT
OF THE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN
589
00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:13,136
THAT I'VE SPOKEN TO,
590
00:27:13,137 --> 00:27:16,027
AT LEAST IN THE FIRST INITIAL
STAGES OF THEIR RECRUITMENT,
591
00:27:16,034 --> 00:27:17,723
WHAT IS HAPPENING IS THEY
592
00:27:17,724 --> 00:27:20,243
ARE ACTUALLY RESPONDING
FROM A PLACE OF GOODNESS.
593
00:27:20,244 --> 00:27:22,411
THEY'RE RESPONDING
FROM A PLACE OF COMPASSION,
594
00:27:22,413 --> 00:27:24,143
AND THAT COMPASSION
IS BEING WEAPONIZED.
595
00:27:24,144 --> 00:27:27,687
[ MAN SPEAKING ARABIC ]
596
00:27:27,689 --> 00:27:29,277
Callimachi:
IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT,
597
00:27:29,278 --> 00:27:31,235
"COME HERE
AND BEHEAD CIVILIANS."
598
00:27:31,241 --> 00:27:32,761
WHY WOULD THAT
BE APPEALING TO ANYONE,
599
00:27:32,762 --> 00:27:35,967
EXCEPT FOR MAYBE A VERY SMALL
NUMBER OF TRUE PSYCHOPATHS?
600
00:27:35,968 --> 00:27:39,615
OBVIOUSLY, YOU NEED TO APPEAL
TO SOME HIGHER SENSE OF PURPOSE
601
00:27:39,620 --> 00:27:42,170
IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE TO WANT
TO UPEND THEIR LIVES.
602
00:27:42,172 --> 00:27:44,001
WE TELL YOU MUSLIMS
TO RISE UP.
603
00:27:44,002 --> 00:27:46,340
Havlicek: ONE OF THE MISTAKES
I THINK PEOPLE MAKE
604
00:27:46,344 --> 00:27:48,834
IN THEIR ASSUMPTIONS
ABOUT EXTREMISTS
605
00:27:48,835 --> 00:27:51,757
IS THAT THEY ARE SOMEHOW
HOPELESS FIGURES.
606
00:27:51,758 --> 00:27:53,136
THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
607
00:27:53,137 --> 00:27:56,997
YOU HAVE SMART, CHARISMATIC,
THOUGHTFUL INDIVIDUALS
608
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,139
LIKE JESSE
WHO ENTER THESE MOVEMENTS,
609
00:27:59,140 --> 00:28:01,447
AND THAT COMBINATION
MAKES THEM EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE
610
00:28:01,448 --> 00:28:03,408
AND IS WHAT MAKES THEM
SUCCESSFUL.
611
00:28:03,413 --> 00:28:05,861
SO I THINK JESSE,
IN SOME SENSE,
612
00:28:05,862 --> 00:28:10,516
IS TYPICAL OF A LEADERSHIP ROLE
WITHIN AN EXTREMIST MOVEMENT.
613
00:28:10,517 --> 00:28:11,964
"PERSONAL STORY" SEGMENT
TONIGHT --
614
00:28:11,965 --> 00:28:14,205
THE PROGRAM "SOUTH PARK" IS
A CONTROVERSIAL SATIRICAL SHOW
615
00:28:14,206 --> 00:28:15,616
THAT OFTEN MOCKS RELIGION.
616
00:28:15,620 --> 00:28:18,790
LAST WEEK, "SOUTH PARK" WENT
AFTER THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD.
617
00:28:18,793 --> 00:28:22,067
THERE'S SOMEBODY I'VE ALWAYS
WANTED TO MEET FACE-TO-FACE.
618
00:28:22,068 --> 00:28:23,788
IF YOU COULD GET HIM TO SHOW
UP IN YOUR TOWN...
619
00:28:23,793 --> 00:28:25,343
SURE!
WHO IS IT?
620
00:28:25,344 --> 00:28:27,240
WE CAN GET ANYBODY
FOR YOU.
621
00:28:27,241 --> 00:28:30,999
MUHAMMAD, THE PROPHET
OF THE MUSLIM FAITH.
622
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,895
OOOOH...
623
00:28:32,896 --> 00:28:36,274
Morton: THE WRITERS OF
THE CARTOON "SOUTH PARK"
624
00:28:36,275 --> 00:28:38,855
ANNOUNCED THEY WERE GOING TO
PORTRAY THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD.
625
00:28:38,862 --> 00:28:41,032
Cooper: NOW A MAN NAMED
JESSE CURTIS MORTON,
626
00:28:41,034 --> 00:28:43,483
WHO IS ALSO KNOWN AS
YOUNUS ABDULLAH MUHAMMAD,
627
00:28:43,484 --> 00:28:44,899
HAS BEEN THREATENING THE WRITERS
628
00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:47,026
OF THE TELEVISION COMEDY SERIES
"SOUTH PARK."
629
00:28:47,034 --> 00:28:48,414
WELL, AFTER THAT EPISODE RAN,
630
00:28:48,415 --> 00:28:51,691
THE FOLLOWING QUOTE APPEARED
ON A PRO-JIHADI WEBSITE
631
00:28:51,692 --> 00:28:54,339
TARGETING THE CREATORS
OF "SOUTH PARK" --
632
00:28:54,344 --> 00:28:56,284
"WE HAVE TO WARN
MATT AND TREY..."
633
00:28:56,285 --> 00:28:57,964
THEY ARE THE CREATORS.
634
00:28:57,965 --> 00:28:59,925
"...THAT WHAT THEY ARE DOING
IS STUPID
635
00:28:59,931 --> 00:29:01,450
AND THEY WILL PROBABLY
WIND UP LIKE
636
00:29:01,451 --> 00:29:03,757
THEO VAN GOGH
FOR AIRING THIS SHOW.
637
00:29:03,758 --> 00:29:06,067
THIS IS NOT A THREAT,
BUT A WARNING OF THE REALITY
638
00:29:06,068 --> 00:29:09,136
OF WHAT WILL LIKELY HAPPEN
TO THEM."
639
00:29:09,137 --> 00:29:10,407
THEO VAN GOGH, AS YOU MAY KNOW,
640
00:29:10,413 --> 00:29:13,552
IS A DUTCH CITIZEN MURDERED
AFTER CRITICIZING ISLAM.
641
00:29:13,553 --> 00:29:15,031
Morton:
SO IT WAS A CLEAR THREAT,
642
00:29:15,034 --> 00:29:19,550
AND I USED IT TO GENERATE
A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF CONTROVERSY
643
00:29:19,551 --> 00:29:22,031
AND ATTENTION TOWARDS
REVOLUTION MUSLIM'S WEBSITE.
644
00:29:22,034 --> 00:29:23,590
BUT YOU GOT TO DEAL
WITH REALITY.
645
00:29:23,591 --> 00:29:25,616
THESE PEOPLE ARE KILLERS,
AND THEY WILL KILL YOU.
646
00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:28,860
IT WAS BEING DETERMINED BY
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT,
647
00:29:28,862 --> 00:29:30,378
THE NYPD,
648
00:29:30,379 --> 00:29:34,549
IF THEY COULD CHARGE ME
AS A RESULT OF THE POST.
649
00:29:34,551 --> 00:29:37,901
I WASN'T INDICTED RIGHT AWAY
OR ARRESTED RIGHT AWAY.
650
00:29:37,902 --> 00:29:42,236
MY CODEFENDANT ULTIMATELY WAS
ARRESTED ABOUT SIX MONTHS LATER.
651
00:29:42,241 --> 00:29:45,209
I KNEW HE WAS GONNA GET
A LOT OF TIME FOR THAT.
652
00:29:45,210 --> 00:29:47,476
SO WE GOT ON THE NEXT PLANE
LEAVING THE COUNTRY,
653
00:29:47,482 --> 00:29:48,830
NOT KNOWING IF I'D BE ABLE TO.
654
00:29:48,831 --> 00:29:51,407
I PACKED ALL MY FAMILY UP
AND JUST MOVED THEM
655
00:29:51,413 --> 00:29:54,143
TO CASABLANCA, MOROCCO,
TO GET AWAY.
656
00:29:57,310 --> 00:29:59,140
SO, I WAS TEACHING ENGLISH,
AND I WAS TEACHING,
657
00:29:59,141 --> 00:30:02,027
AT A UNIVERSITY,
BUSINESS CLASSES IN CASABLANCA
658
00:30:02,034 --> 00:30:04,240
WHEN THE ARAB SPRING
BROKE OUT.
659
00:30:04,241 --> 00:30:06,241
[ CROWD CHANTING, SHOUTING ]
660
00:30:08,379 --> 00:30:10,069
SO I STARTED TO HAVE
THESE CONVERSATIONS
661
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:11,788
WITH MY STUDENTS AFTER CLASS.
662
00:30:11,793 --> 00:30:14,071
I REALIZED THAT THEY REALLY
JUST WANTED THINGS
663
00:30:14,072 --> 00:30:16,518
THAT I HAD TAKEN FOR GRANTED
MY ENTIRE LIFE --
664
00:30:16,519 --> 00:30:17,857
AN ABILITY TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS,
665
00:30:17,862 --> 00:30:21,585
AN ABILITY TO ELECT
REPRESENTATIVES.
666
00:30:21,586 --> 00:30:23,276
AND THEN, ON THE OTHER HAND,
667
00:30:23,277 --> 00:30:26,205
I HAD ALL THIS ANTI-AMERICAN
SENTIMENT COMING TO ME.
668
00:30:26,206 --> 00:30:28,096
THEY WERE INSULTING AMERICANS,
SAYING THEY'RE ALL FAT,
669
00:30:28,103 --> 00:30:30,723
THEY DON'T FEED YOU
WHEN YOU GO TO THEIR HOUSE.
670
00:30:30,724 --> 00:30:32,454
AND FOR THE FIRST TIME
IN MY LIFE,
671
00:30:32,455 --> 00:30:35,238
STARTED TO DEFEND
THE UNITED STATES.
672
00:30:35,241 --> 00:30:37,001
O'Reilly:
HIS NAME IS JESSE MORTON.
673
00:30:37,002 --> 00:30:38,380
BORN IN PENNSYLVANIA.
674
00:30:38,381 --> 00:30:41,789
2010, HE FLED TO MOROCCO,
WHERE HE WAS ARRESTED.
675
00:30:44,862 --> 00:30:48,552
Morton: SO I WAS ARRESTED IN
CASABLANCA ONE DAY, OUT OF NOWHERE.
676
00:30:48,553 --> 00:30:52,211
I WAS ARRESTED TWO WEEKS AFTER
OSAMA BIN LADEN WAS KILLED
677
00:30:52,212 --> 00:30:54,166
IN THE ABBOTTABAD RAIDS,
678
00:30:54,172 --> 00:30:57,482
MAY 23rd OF 2011.
679
00:30:58,793 --> 00:31:01,863
AND I WAS SET FOR EXTRADITION
BACK TO THE UNITED STATES.
680
00:31:04,448 --> 00:31:05,828
BUT WHEN THEY PUT ME
ON THE PLANE,
681
00:31:05,829 --> 00:31:08,826
THEY PUT THE BLINDFOLDERS ON,
THEY PLUGGED MY EARS.
682
00:31:08,827 --> 00:31:11,207
THE SECRET SERVICE, NAVY SEALS,
THE WHOLE NINE YARDS,
683
00:31:11,208 --> 00:31:13,166
DRESSED ME UP LIKE
YOU WOULD DRESS SOMEBODY UP
684
00:31:13,172 --> 00:31:15,999
GOING TO GUANTANAMO OR BAGRAM.
685
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,658
THEY WALKED ME WITH
THE CHAIN LINKS DOWN THE TARMAC.
686
00:31:18,659 --> 00:31:22,135
WHEN THEY PUT ME ON THE PLANE,
A SECRET SERVICE AGENT,
687
00:31:22,137 --> 00:31:25,966
FIRST THING HE DOES IS PUT
MY QUR'AN DOWN IN FRONT OF ME.
688
00:31:25,967 --> 00:31:28,274
HE SAYS, "DO YOU WANT TO HOLD
ONTO THAT WHILE WE FLY?"
689
00:31:28,275 --> 00:31:31,405
AND THEN HE ASKED ME, HE SAYS,
"TECHNICALLY, I GOT TO ASK YOU,
690
00:31:31,413 --> 00:31:33,033
DO YOU WANT ME
TO CALL YOU JESSE?
691
00:31:33,034 --> 00:31:34,594
OR DO YOU WANT ME
TO CALL YOU YOUNUS?"
692
00:31:34,595 --> 00:31:36,756
AND I THINK HE EXPECTED ME
TO SAY YOUNUS.
693
00:31:36,758 --> 00:31:38,518
I EXPECTED MYSELF TO SAY YOUNUS.
694
00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:40,617
BUT FOR SOME REASON
I SAID JESSE MORTON.
695
00:31:40,620 --> 00:31:43,970
I WANTED TO BE CALLED
JESSE MORTON, AND THIS WAS...
696
00:31:43,971 --> 00:31:47,855
IT JUST STANDS OUT
AS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT
697
00:31:47,862 --> 00:31:50,692
FOR MY STARTING POINT
FOR MY DERADICALIZATION.
698
00:31:52,896 --> 00:31:54,376
Callimachi:
HE WAS RELEASED FROM JAIL.
699
00:31:54,379 --> 00:31:56,759
HE INITIALLY GOT A JOB AT
GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY
700
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,408
AT THE PROGRAM ON EXTREMISM.
701
00:31:58,413 --> 00:32:00,412
THINGS LOOKED REALLY GOOD
FOR HIM FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS,
702
00:32:00,413 --> 00:32:02,663
AND THEN HE SLIPPED
AND STARTED USING DRUGS AGAIN
703
00:32:02,664 --> 00:32:05,855
AND WAS IMMEDIATELY FIRED
BY G.W.
704
00:32:05,862 --> 00:32:09,969
WHEN HE STARTED TO FEEL LIKE HIS
IDEOLOGY WAS FALLING APART...
705
00:32:09,970 --> 00:32:11,545
THIS IS NOT SOME PASSING THING.
706
00:32:11,551 --> 00:32:14,550
THIS WAS DEEPLY INSIDE HIS DNA.
707
00:32:14,551 --> 00:32:17,519
HE REALLY THOUGHT HE WAS
DOING THE RIGHT THING.
708
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,656
AND IT WAS VERY FRIGHTENING,
I THINK,
709
00:32:19,657 --> 00:32:22,654
WHEN THAT WORLD VIEW STARTED
TO CRUMBLE AROUND HIM
710
00:32:22,655 --> 00:32:24,405
AND HE BEGAN TO REALIZE,
YOU KNOW,
711
00:32:24,413 --> 00:32:27,283
THAT HE HAD LED ALL THESE PEOPLE
INTO THEIR ARREST,
712
00:32:27,284 --> 00:32:30,925
INTO FOILED PLOTS,
INTO ATTEMPTS AT VIOLENCE,
713
00:32:30,931 --> 00:32:33,001
AND THAT MAYBE HE WAS WRONG.
714
00:32:36,586 --> 00:32:38,406
FOR US AS EUROPEANS,
715
00:32:38,413 --> 00:32:43,792
IT IS ONLY NORMAL AGAIN
WHEN WE ARE GREAT AGAIN.
716
00:32:43,793 --> 00:32:47,309
HAIL TRUMP! HAIL OUR PEOPLE!
HAIL VICTORY!
717
00:32:47,310 --> 00:32:50,309
[ CROWD CHEERING, CHANTING ]
718
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:53,895
THE FAR RIGHT AND THE ISLAMIST
PARTS OF THE SPECTRUM
719
00:32:53,896 --> 00:32:55,376
ACTUALLY SHARE
THE SAME NARRATIVE --
720
00:32:55,379 --> 00:32:56,898
YOU KNOW,
"MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY,
721
00:32:56,899 --> 00:32:58,856
AND WE ARE ULTIMATELY
INCOMPATIBLE."
722
00:32:58,862 --> 00:33:02,240
AND THAT NOW IS MAINSTREAMING
723
00:33:02,241 --> 00:33:05,031
IN WAYS THAT WE COULDN'T HAVE
IMAGINED BEFORE.
724
00:33:05,034 --> 00:33:08,104
THEY ARE ORGANIZING
TACTICALLY ACROSS BORDERS,
725
00:33:08,105 --> 00:33:10,763
ACROSS A FAIRLY WIDE
IDEOLOGICAL SPECTRUM.
726
00:33:12,724 --> 00:33:15,484
AND THE ULTIMATE OBJECTIVE
OF THESE GROUPS IS DIVISION,
727
00:33:15,485 --> 00:33:18,619
IS POLARIZATION,
A SORT OF DEEP POLARIZATION.
728
00:33:18,620 --> 00:33:20,480
All: BLOOD AND SOIL!
BLOOD AND SOIL!
729
00:33:20,482 --> 00:33:22,312
Man: WE'RE AN AMERICAN
ORGANIZATION,
730
00:33:22,313 --> 00:33:24,826
AND OUR MEMBERSHIP
REPRESENTS THIS.
731
00:33:24,827 --> 00:33:27,617
Meeink: WHAT HAPPENED WITH
DONALD TRUMP COMING INTO OFFICE,
732
00:33:27,620 --> 00:33:29,760
AND PEOPLE THINK, "WOW, THAT WAS
THE RISE OF THIS NEW PARTY."
733
00:33:29,761 --> 00:33:32,238
NO. IT WAS ALWAYS THERE,
734
00:33:32,241 --> 00:33:35,311
AND THEN, KNOWING THAT REALLY
THE BIGGEST RISE WAS IN 2008.
735
00:33:35,312 --> 00:33:40,309
Reporter: NBC NEWS CALLING FOR
THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE.
736
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:44,030
Meeink: THAT'S WHEN THE MOVEMENT
GOT GIGANTIC OVERNIGHT.
737
00:33:44,034 --> 00:33:45,723
THERE WAS A BLACK DUDE
IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
738
00:33:45,724 --> 00:33:49,104
I WANT OUR ACTIONS TO TELL EVERY
CHILD IN EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD,
739
00:33:49,105 --> 00:33:50,516
"YOUR LIFE MATTERS."
740
00:33:50,517 --> 00:33:51,826
MAN AND WOMAN, YOUNG AND OLD,
741
00:33:51,827 --> 00:33:53,687
BLACK AND WHITE, LATINO, ASIAN,
742
00:33:53,689 --> 00:33:56,449
IMMIGRANT, NATIVE AMERICAN,
GAY, STRAIGHT,
743
00:33:56,450 --> 00:34:00,308
AMERICANS WITH MENTAL ILLNESS
OR PHYSICAL DISABILITY,
744
00:34:00,310 --> 00:34:02,030
EVERYBODY MATTERS.
745
00:34:02,034 --> 00:34:04,102
I WOULD BUILD A GREAT WALL,
746
00:34:04,103 --> 00:34:06,102
AND NOBODY BUILDS WALLS
BETTER THAN ME, BELIEVE ME,
747
00:34:06,103 --> 00:34:09,343
AND I'LL BUILD THEM
VERY INEXPENSIVELY.
748
00:34:09,344 --> 00:34:11,382
Meeink: DONALD TRUMP
ANNOUNCES HIS CANDIDACY
749
00:34:11,383 --> 00:34:12,657
AND GOES RIGHT INTO THE WALL.
750
00:34:12,658 --> 00:34:15,825
THEY'RE BRINGING DRUGS,
THEY'RE BRINGING CRIME.
751
00:34:15,827 --> 00:34:18,097
AND HE SAYS,
"WE GOTTA BUILD THIS WALL
752
00:34:18,103 --> 00:34:21,763
'CAUSE THERE ARE DRUG DEALERS,
RAPISTS, GANG MEMBERS."
753
00:34:21,764 --> 00:34:22,928
THEY'RE RAPISTS.
754
00:34:22,931 --> 00:34:24,381
Meeink:
HE JUST SPOKE TO EVERY RACIST
755
00:34:24,382 --> 00:34:25,719
THAT CAME OUT IN 2008.
756
00:34:25,724 --> 00:34:27,343
HE JUST SPOKE TO EVERY ONE
OF THEM AND SAID,
757
00:34:27,344 --> 00:34:28,723
"I BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE,"
758
00:34:28,724 --> 00:34:30,033
AND THEY ALL POPPED THEIR HEADS
BACK UP AND WAS LIKE,
759
00:34:30,034 --> 00:34:32,214
"YES, OUR GUY IS RUNNING,"
YOU KNOW?
760
00:34:32,215 --> 00:34:36,585
All: WE WANT TRUMP!
WE WANT TRUMP!
761
00:34:36,586 --> 00:34:38,966
Levin: CANDIDATE
AND PRESIDENT TRUMP TAPPED INTO
762
00:34:38,967 --> 00:34:41,445
THIS FEAR OF CHANGE...
763
00:34:41,448 --> 00:34:44,618
WE'VE GOT TO FIGHT BACK.
WE'VE GOT TO FIGHT BACK.
764
00:34:44,620 --> 00:34:47,447
Levin: ...THE NOTION
OF CULTURAL CHANGE.
765
00:34:47,448 --> 00:34:51,548
IN FACT, IT'S BEEN TWISTED TO BE
CALLED WHITE CULTURAL GENOCIDE.
766
00:34:51,551 --> 00:34:54,861
All:
JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!
767
00:34:54,862 --> 00:34:57,619
JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!
768
00:34:57,620 --> 00:35:00,170
JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!
769
00:35:00,172 --> 00:35:03,032
Levin: AT THE TIKI TORCH MARCH
IN CHARLOTTESVILLE
770
00:35:03,034 --> 00:35:05,067
IN AUGUST OF '17,
771
00:35:05,068 --> 00:35:07,967
THEY THOUGHT THAT THEY COULD
USE THE DEBATE
772
00:35:07,968 --> 00:35:09,685
OVER THE CONFEDERATE MONUMENTS
773
00:35:09,689 --> 00:35:13,029
AS A WAY TO WEDGE
INTO THE MAINSTREAM
774
00:35:13,034 --> 00:35:15,516
THE NOTION THAT CITIZENSHIP...
775
00:35:15,517 --> 00:35:17,167
YOUR AMERICA'S GONE,
****!
776
00:35:17,172 --> 00:35:21,102
...THE TRUE AMERICAN
IS ONE THAT HAS WHITE SKIN,
777
00:35:21,103 --> 00:35:24,171
AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS AN ENEMY
778
00:35:24,172 --> 00:35:25,861
THAT IS TRYING
TO COME FROM WITHIN.
779
00:35:25,862 --> 00:35:28,481
OUR MONUMENTS
ARE BEING TORN DOWN.
780
00:35:28,482 --> 00:35:31,309
THEY ARE BEING REMOVED
AND REPLACED.
781
00:35:31,310 --> 00:35:34,520
AND OUR PEOPLE ARE BEING
TORN DOWN AND REPLACED.
782
00:35:34,521 --> 00:35:35,857
WHITE PRIDE!
783
00:35:35,862 --> 00:35:39,654
THERE'S NOTHING WRONG
WITH BEING PROUD OF WHO YOU ARE.
784
00:35:39,655 --> 00:35:41,995
Levin: WITH ALL THESE
WHITE SUPREMACISTS,
785
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,585
WHITE NATIONALISTS,
NAZIS, KLAN SYMPATHIZERS,
786
00:35:46,586 --> 00:35:48,686
WE HADN'T SEEN
ANYTHING LIKE THAT
787
00:35:48,689 --> 00:35:51,479
CERTAINLY IN MY
PROFESSIONAL CAREER,
788
00:35:51,482 --> 00:35:53,762
AND I'VE BEEN DOING THIS
FOR OVER THREE DECADES.
789
00:35:53,763 --> 00:35:56,757
- WHITE LIVES MATTER!
- WHOO!
790
00:35:56,758 --> 00:35:59,274
[ SHOUTING ]
791
00:35:59,275 --> 00:36:00,785
STAY BACK! STAY BACK!
STAY BACK!
792
00:36:00,793 --> 00:36:03,073
Meeink: WHEN CHARLOTTESVILLE
BROKE DOWN, THE FIRST NIGHT,
793
00:36:03,074 --> 00:36:05,967
I HAD HEARD THAT SOME OF THEM
WERE SAYING STUFF ABOUT JEWS,
794
00:36:05,968 --> 00:36:07,785
SO I WAS LIKE,
"ALRIGHT, I'M KIND OF..."
795
00:36:07,793 --> 00:36:09,213
YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF GOT
MY INTEREST THERE,
796
00:36:09,214 --> 00:36:10,756
"JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US."
797
00:36:10,758 --> 00:36:13,067
AND I'M LIKE,
"MAN, WHO'S LEADING THIS?"
798
00:36:13,068 --> 00:36:16,098
AND THEN I STARTED SEEING THAT
THERE WAS SOME REAL NEO-NAZIS
799
00:36:16,103 --> 00:36:18,863
THERE, GUYS THAT CAME UP KIND OF
WHEN I CAME UP THAT ARE NOW,
800
00:36:18,864 --> 00:36:21,209
YOU KNOW, THE INTERNET GUYS
OF THE MOVEMENT,
801
00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:24,166
AND I'M LIKE, "THERE'S SOME
BIG NAMES DOWN THERE."
802
00:36:24,172 --> 00:36:27,516
- BLOOD AND SOIL!
- WHITE LIVES MATTER!
803
00:36:27,517 --> 00:36:29,687
[ SHOUTING, CHANTING ]
804
00:36:33,310 --> 00:36:36,964
BACK UP.
BACK UP ON THE STEPS!
805
00:36:36,965 --> 00:36:38,715
- WHAT THE ****?!
- BACK!
806
00:36:38,724 --> 00:36:41,104
Meeink: WHAT'S GOING ON
RIGHT NOW WITH ALL THESE GROUPS
807
00:36:41,105 --> 00:36:45,240
IS THEY'RE REPACKAGING
WHAT WE SOLD IN THE '90s,
808
00:36:45,241 --> 00:36:47,031
REPACKAGING FEAR,
REPACKAGING HATE.
809
00:36:47,034 --> 00:36:49,723
[ SHOUTING, CHANTING CONTINUES ]
810
00:36:49,724 --> 00:36:51,102
IT'S ALL THE SAME.
811
00:36:51,103 --> 00:36:52,900
IT'S ABSOLUTELY 100%
ALL THE SAME.
812
00:36:52,901 --> 00:36:55,656
IT'S A BUNCH OF MEN WHO ARE
FEARFUL AND THEY'RE SCARED
813
00:36:55,657 --> 00:36:57,925
AND THEY ARE GONNA LASH OUT
VIOLENTLY.
814
00:36:57,931 --> 00:36:59,930
THERE'S NO OTHER END
TO THIS RIGHT NOW
815
00:36:59,931 --> 00:37:01,311
THAN VIOLENCE SOMEWHERE.
816
00:37:01,312 --> 00:37:04,136
[ SHOUTING CONTINUES ]
817
00:37:04,137 --> 00:37:06,027
WE'RE MARCHING TO McINTIRE --
818
00:37:06,034 --> 00:37:07,794
WE'RE MARCHING TO McINTIRE PARK!
819
00:37:07,795 --> 00:37:10,483
Kessler: CHARLOTTESVILLE POLICE
DEPARTMENT COMES IN
820
00:37:10,484 --> 00:37:14,072
AN HOUR AND A HALF AFTER OUR
PERMIT STARTED AT 10:00 A.M.
821
00:37:14,073 --> 00:37:16,408
AND DECLARES
AN UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLY.
822
00:37:16,413 --> 00:37:18,550
AND IT WAS A HECKLER'S VETO.
823
00:37:18,551 --> 00:37:20,829
WE, OUR PEOPLE,
WERE NOT BEING VIOLENT.
824
00:37:20,830 --> 00:37:22,687
THEY WERE BEING VIOLENT TO US.
825
00:37:22,689 --> 00:37:25,029
Levin: THERE IS
A CHOREOGRAPHED DANCE
826
00:37:25,034 --> 00:37:27,664
THAT EXISTS BETWEEN
THE COUNTERPROTESTERS,
827
00:37:27,665 --> 00:37:30,445
ANTIFA,
AND WHITE NATIONALISTS.
828
00:37:30,448 --> 00:37:33,098
All:
WE HAVE REPLACED YOU!
829
00:37:33,103 --> 00:37:36,447
ANTIFA IS BANGING DRUMS
830
00:37:36,448 --> 00:37:38,138
AND YELLING
AND BEING IN THEIR FACE
831
00:37:38,139 --> 00:37:39,897
TO RESIST
THIS WHITE NATIONALISM.
832
00:37:39,898 --> 00:37:42,756
Man: ...RIGHT NOW
OR YOU WILL BE ARRESTED.
833
00:37:42,758 --> 00:37:45,338
[ ALL SHOUTING ]
834
00:37:45,344 --> 00:37:50,664
Levin: ANTIFA, AT VARYING LEVELS,
EXCUSES OR ACCEPTS VIOLENCE.
835
00:37:52,172 --> 00:37:54,171
THESE ARE NOT
MARTIN LUTHER KING FOLKS
836
00:37:54,172 --> 00:37:57,342
IN THEIR HARDEST INCARNATION.
837
00:37:57,344 --> 00:37:59,688
BUT I WANT TO BE CLEAR HERE --
838
00:37:59,689 --> 00:38:02,099
NOT ONLY IS THERE
NO MORAL EQUIVALENCY,
839
00:38:02,103 --> 00:38:05,585
ANTIFA DOES NOT HAVE
A DIRECT CONNECTION
840
00:38:05,586 --> 00:38:07,856
TO 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE.
841
00:38:07,862 --> 00:38:09,895
WHITE NATIONALISTS DO.
842
00:38:09,896 --> 00:38:13,446
YOU HAD PEOPLE IN THAT GROUP
THAT WERE THERE TO PROTEST
843
00:38:13,448 --> 00:38:17,408
THE TAKING DOWN OF, TO THEM,
A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT STATUE.
844
00:38:17,413 --> 00:38:20,033
YOU'RE CHANGING HISTORY.
YOU'RE CHANGING CULTURE.
845
00:38:20,034 --> 00:38:23,343
Reporter: THE FORMER HEAD OF THE
KKK, DAVID DUKE, OVER THE WEEKEND,
846
00:38:23,344 --> 00:38:27,071
TWEETING, "GRATEFUL TO THE
PRESIDENT FOR HIS WORDS TODAY."
847
00:38:27,072 --> 00:38:30,207
"THANK YOU, PRESIDENT TRUMP,
FOR YOUR HONESTY AND COURAGE
848
00:38:30,208 --> 00:38:32,136
TO TELL THE TRUTH
ABOUT CHARLOTTESVILLE."
849
00:38:32,137 --> 00:38:34,447
Levin: WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP,
THEY REALLY SAW HIM
850
00:38:34,448 --> 00:38:39,098
AS SOMEONE WHO -- HE'S GONNA
PUSH A PRO-WHITE AGENDA.
851
00:38:39,103 --> 00:38:40,757
HE'S OPENED UP A DOOR.
852
00:38:40,758 --> 00:38:42,858
HIS MOVEMENT
HAS OPENED UP A DOOR.
853
00:38:42,862 --> 00:38:44,212
AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.
854
00:38:44,213 --> 00:38:45,585
OUR COUNTRY!
855
00:38:45,586 --> 00:38:49,166
I'M A PROUD **** AMERICAN!
MADE IN USA, ****!
856
00:38:49,172 --> 00:38:51,481
MADE IN **** USA!
857
00:38:51,482 --> 00:38:54,516
GO **** COOK
MY BURRITO, ****!
858
00:38:54,517 --> 00:38:59,097
Havlicek: WHILE THE VIOLENCE IS
THE MOST SORT OF OBVIOUS ASPECT
859
00:38:59,103 --> 00:39:01,792
OF EXTREMIST ORGANIZATIONS
AND MOVEMENTS,
860
00:39:01,793 --> 00:39:06,826
WE SEE ALL SORTS OF
EXTREMIST GROUPS BRAND-CLEANSE.
861
00:39:06,827 --> 00:39:09,587
THEY'VE STARTED TO SOFTEN
THE LANGUAGE THAT THEY USE,
862
00:39:09,588 --> 00:39:11,996
TO SOME EXTENT,
IN ORDER TO REACH OUT
863
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,790
TO MUCH MORE MAINSTREAM
AUDIENCES.
864
00:39:13,793 --> 00:39:15,792
WE'VE SEEN THAT NOW
WITH THE ALT-RIGHT,
865
00:39:15,793 --> 00:39:18,550
BY NOT PUTTING
THE RACIST FOOT FIRST,
866
00:39:18,551 --> 00:39:21,001
TALKING INSTEAD
ABOUT CULTURAL THREATS.
867
00:39:21,002 --> 00:39:23,410
AND THE PATHWAY
TO RADICALIZATION,
868
00:39:23,413 --> 00:39:25,481
IT IS NOT A BOTTOM-UP MOVEMENT.
869
00:39:25,482 --> 00:39:27,279
THESE ARE MOVEMENTS
THAT ARE ORCHESTRATED,
870
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,515
MANIPULATED TOP-DOWN
ACROSS THE WHOLE OF THE WEST,
871
00:39:30,517 --> 00:39:30,757
I THINK, IN BIG WAYS,
BUT ALSO INTERNATIONALLY.
872
00:39:35,758 --> 00:39:38,478
Morton: I REACT TO THE FACT THAT
THERE'S SO MUCH ISLAMOPHOBIA
873
00:39:38,482 --> 00:39:40,722
AND SO MUCH FEAR OF
THE AMERICAN MUSLIM COMMUNITY
874
00:39:40,724 --> 00:39:42,688
BY BLAMING MYSELF.
875
00:39:42,689 --> 00:39:45,239
WE WILL FIGHT YOU AND DESTROY
YOU IF WE HAVE TO!
876
00:39:45,241 --> 00:39:48,930
Morton: NOT IN TOTALITY,
BUT WE PLAYED A MAJOR ROLE.
877
00:39:48,931 --> 00:39:53,240
♪♪
878
00:39:53,241 --> 00:39:54,481
[ SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY ]
879
00:39:54,482 --> 00:39:55,585
HOW YOU DOING?
880
00:39:55,586 --> 00:39:57,585
I DON'T REMEMBER
HOW LONG IT'S BEEN.
881
00:39:57,586 --> 00:40:00,516
VERY GOOD.
VERY GOOD. VERY GOOD.
882
00:40:00,517 --> 00:40:02,136
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I
883
00:40:02,137 --> 00:40:06,307
WOULD LIKE TO MAKE AMENDS FOR
THE MOST
884
00:40:06,310 --> 00:40:09,550
IS THE FACT THAT A RELIGION
THAT I BELIEVED IN
885
00:40:09,551 --> 00:40:12,761
AND THAT HELPED ME SO MUCH
TO GET MY LIFE TOGETHER,
886
00:40:12,762 --> 00:40:16,308
I BETRAYED THE ADHERENCE
OF THAT RELIGION.
887
00:40:16,310 --> 00:40:18,550
IT'S A MOTIVATING FACTOR,
BUT TRUTH BE TOLD,
888
00:40:18,551 --> 00:40:21,240
IT'S ALSO THE ROOT
OF A LOT OF GUILT AND SHAME.
889
00:40:21,241 --> 00:40:22,791
I CAN'T WATCH THE OLD VIDEOS
890
00:40:22,793 --> 00:40:25,481
OF YOUNUS ABDULLAH MUHAMMAD
PREACHING.
891
00:40:25,482 --> 00:40:27,102
IT MAKES ME SICK.
892
00:40:27,103 --> 00:40:28,240
LET'S GO.
893
00:40:28,241 --> 00:40:29,281
I'LL GIVE YOU THE TOUR.
894
00:40:29,282 --> 00:40:31,065
DERADICALIZATION IS
895
00:40:31,068 --> 00:40:34,378
SUCH A COMPLICATED
AND MULTI-DIMENSIONAL PROCESS.
896
00:40:34,379 --> 00:40:37,688
IT MEANS TO CHANGE AND ALTER
YOUR POSITION IN A MOVEMENT
897
00:40:37,689 --> 00:40:40,619
SO THAT YOU CAN START
TO WALK AWAY FROM EXTREMISM
898
00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:42,100
STEP BY STEP.
899
00:40:42,103 --> 00:40:45,067
HAPPY TO SEE YOU.I'M HAPPY TO SEE YOU, TOO.
900
00:40:45,068 --> 00:40:46,548
YEAH. MM.
901
00:40:46,551 --> 00:40:47,930
HOW ARE YOU DOING? I'M DOING VERY WELL.
902
00:40:47,931 --> 00:40:49,031
YEAH?
MM-HMM.
903
00:40:49,034 --> 00:40:50,521
Havlicek:
THE REASON THAT WE STARTED
904
00:40:50,522 --> 00:40:52,787
TO REACH OUT
TO FORMER EXTREMISTS
905
00:40:52,793 --> 00:40:54,969
WAS BECAUSE WE NEED
TO HAVE THE PEOPLE
906
00:40:54,970 --> 00:40:56,925
WHO UNDERSTAND
THEIR COMMUNITIES,
907
00:40:56,931 --> 00:41:00,829
WHO DEEPLY UNDERSTAND THE NEEDS
AND THE RESPONSES THAT WORK.
908
00:41:00,830 --> 00:41:02,307
WHEN WE HAD
THAT SESSION
909
00:41:02,310 --> 00:41:04,380
AND WE WERE LOOKING
AT GETTING PROPER SUPPORT
910
00:41:04,381 --> 00:41:07,378
FOR PEOPLE IN YOUR SITUATION,
CAN YOU REMEMBER?
911
00:41:07,379 --> 00:41:08,688
YEAH, FOR SURE.
912
00:41:08,689 --> 00:41:10,339
I MEAN, IT WAS AWKWARD,
913
00:41:10,344 --> 00:41:12,074
'CAUSE THAT WAS RIGHT
AT MY TRANSITION POINT,
914
00:41:12,075 --> 00:41:14,378
WHERE THINGS STARTED
TO GET CLOUDY,
915
00:41:14,379 --> 00:41:15,619
WHERE I WAS JUST LIKE,
"I DON'T KNOW
916
00:41:15,620 --> 00:41:17,720
IF CAN DO THIS,"
YOU KNOW?
917
00:41:17,724 --> 00:41:19,343
WHAT WE STARTED
TO FIND AS WE REACHED OUT
918
00:41:19,344 --> 00:41:21,664
TO THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAD
COME OUT OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS
919
00:41:21,665 --> 00:41:24,685
WAS HOW SIMILAR
THEIR PERSONAL JOURNEYS WERE,
920
00:41:24,689 --> 00:41:26,029
THEIR TRAJECTORIES IN AND OUT,
921
00:41:26,034 --> 00:41:28,414
EVEN THOUGH THE IDEOLOGIES
DIFFERED.
922
00:41:28,415 --> 00:41:30,590
AND THE WAY IN WHICH
WE WORKED WITH THEM,
923
00:41:30,591 --> 00:41:33,376
WE STARTED TO LOOK AT WAYS
IN WHICH TO SUPPORT THEM
924
00:41:33,379 --> 00:41:35,479
IN PASSING THAT FORWARD.
925
00:41:35,482 --> 00:41:38,140
THE QUESTION IS ULTIMATELY,
LIKE, WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE?
926
00:41:38,141 --> 00:41:39,656
AND IF YOU LEAVE
THAT PERSON
927
00:41:39,657 --> 00:41:41,755
INDEPENDENT AND ALONE
AND IN ISOLATION
928
00:41:41,758 --> 00:41:43,478
AND THEY DON'T HAVE
A SOCIAL SENSE
929
00:41:43,482 --> 00:41:46,070
OF BELONGING OR SOME
OTHER ALTERNATIVE NETWORK
930
00:41:46,071 --> 00:41:47,898
AND OTHER ALTERNATIVE
AVENUE TO ENGAGE...
931
00:41:47,899 --> 00:41:48,996
YEAH.
932
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,658
...THERE'S GOING TO BE
COMPLICATIONS.
933
00:41:50,659 --> 00:41:51,895
AND THE PROBLEM IS,
IS, LIKE,
934
00:41:51,896 --> 00:41:53,756
YOU DON'T HAVE
THAT COMMUNITY IN PLACE,
935
00:41:53,758 --> 00:41:56,998
WHICH IS WHAT I THINK
MY KEY TAKEAWAY IS,
936
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,030
THAT YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE
A COMMUNITY.
937
00:41:59,034 --> 00:42:01,664
Morton: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS
ACCOMPANIED MY DERADICALIZATION
938
00:42:01,665 --> 00:42:04,405
IS THIS IDENTIFICATION THAT
THERE ARE VERY SIMILAR PATTERNS
939
00:42:04,413 --> 00:42:07,283
BETWEEN JIHADISM
AND RIGHT-WING EXTREMISM.
940
00:42:07,284 --> 00:42:09,065
HEY, JASON.
HEY, JESSE.
941
00:42:09,068 --> 00:42:10,378
NICE TO FINALLY SEE YOU
IN PERSON.
942
00:42:10,379 --> 00:42:11,929
NICE TO MEET YOU.
943
00:42:11,931 --> 00:42:13,930
FEEL LIKE I ALREADY KNOW YOU,
BUT WE'LL HAVE A CONVERSATION.
944
00:42:13,931 --> 00:42:15,278
HOW'D YOU GET HERE?
WAS IT GOOD?
945
00:42:15,279 --> 00:42:17,895
SO, LAST YEAR, WHEN THERE WAS
THE CHARLOTTESVILLE
946
00:42:17,896 --> 00:42:21,066
UNITE THE RIGHT RALLY,
I WROTE AN OP-ED PIECE...
947
00:42:21,068 --> 00:42:22,828
I MEAN, AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN
TALKING FOR SOME TIME NOW.
948
00:42:22,829 --> 00:42:23,997
YEP.
949
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,309
...ABOUT HOW THE IDEOLOGIES
ARE SIMILAR,
950
00:42:25,310 --> 00:42:26,760
BUT ALSO WROTE ABOUT
JASON KESSLER
951
00:42:26,761 --> 00:42:31,408
AS A FIGURE WHO WAS LESS EXTREME
BUT REPRESENTED A SIMILAR ROLE
952
00:42:31,413 --> 00:42:33,932
TO THE ONE THAT I PLAYED
AT REVOLUTION MUSLIM.
953
00:42:33,933 --> 00:42:35,621
I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW,
HOW DID YOU FEEL
954
00:42:35,622 --> 00:42:36,999
WHEN YOU GOT AN E-MAIL
THAT SAID,
955
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,759
"HEY, I'M A FORMER
JIHADIST,
956
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,928
AND I'D LIKE TO TALK TO YOU
ABOUT YOUR IDEAS"?
957
00:42:40,931 --> 00:42:42,450
YOU KNOW,
I WAS OPEN-MINDED TO IT
958
00:42:42,451 --> 00:42:44,967
BECAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE
YOU WERE GENUINELY CURIOUS
959
00:42:44,968 --> 00:42:46,335
ABOUT WHERE I WAS
COMING FROM.
960
00:42:46,344 --> 00:42:48,343
I MEAN, IT'S...
RIGHT NOW,
961
00:42:48,344 --> 00:42:51,141
WITH THE PERCEPTION
OF MY EVENT LAST YEAR,
962
00:42:51,142 --> 00:42:53,687
SOME PEOPLE, LIKE,
THEY JUST HATE THE CONCEPTS
963
00:42:53,689 --> 00:42:55,719
THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT,
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.
964
00:42:55,724 --> 00:42:58,141
WHITE PEOPLE AREN'T ALLOWED
TO HAVE ORGANIZATIONS.
965
00:42:58,142 --> 00:43:00,307
WHAT I'VE TRIED TO DO
IS A CIVIL RIGHTS THING.
966
00:43:00,310 --> 00:43:04,100
AND WHENEVER I ACT THE WAY
THAT I SEE OTHER RACES ACTING
967
00:43:04,103 --> 00:43:07,102
WHEN THEY'RE CALLED
CIVIL RIGHTS,
968
00:43:07,103 --> 00:43:09,102
PEOPLE ACCUSE ME
OF WHITE SUPREMACY.
969
00:43:09,103 --> 00:43:11,412
AND FOR ME, IN MY HEAD,
970
00:43:11,413 --> 00:43:13,279
I WAS THINKING
OF THE EXAMPLE OF PEOPLE
971
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,065
LIKE MARTIN LUTHER KING,
WHO LED MARCHES,
972
00:43:16,068 --> 00:43:18,828
AND I WAS THINKING,
"THIS IS A CIVIL RIGHTS MARCH,"
973
00:43:18,829 --> 00:43:20,587
AND I'M WALKING AT
THE FRONT OF THIS THING.
974
00:43:20,588 --> 00:43:23,026
AND NOW WHERE THAT GETS
INTO THE EXTREMISM THING
975
00:43:23,034 --> 00:43:27,033
IS THAT MOST PEOPLE
ARE FUNDAMENTALLY GOOD PEOPLE,
976
00:43:27,034 --> 00:43:28,521
AND WHEN PEOPLE
SHAME THEM AND SAY,
977
00:43:28,522 --> 00:43:32,027
"YOU'RE A BAD PERSON FOR TRYING
TO STAND UP FOR WHITE PEOPLE,"
978
00:43:32,034 --> 00:43:33,553
THEY'LL EITHER GIVE UP
AND JUST SAY,
979
00:43:33,554 --> 00:43:36,658
"THIS IS TOO MUCH.
I'M NOT GONNA RISK MY FAMILY,
980
00:43:36,659 --> 00:43:39,065
MY JOB, MY FUTURE
TO DEAL WITH THIS."
981
00:43:39,068 --> 00:43:42,478
SO THE PEOPLE WHO CONTINUE ON
TEND TO BE,
982
00:43:42,482 --> 00:43:44,621
LIKE, REALLY EXTREME
IN THEIR THINKING.
983
00:43:44,622 --> 00:43:47,278
AROUND THE TWO MONTHS
AFTER CHARLOTTESVILLE RALLY,
984
00:43:47,279 --> 00:43:48,964
HE ANNOUNCED THAT
IT WAS MORE STRATEGIC
985
00:43:48,965 --> 00:43:52,165
TO HAVE WHAT HE CALLED
A WHITE CIVIL RIGHTS PLATFORM.
986
00:43:52,172 --> 00:43:54,516
HE, IN HIS MIND, COGNITIVELY,
987
00:43:54,517 --> 00:43:56,997
BELIEVES THAT HE HAS
DISTINGUISHED HIMSELF
988
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,380
AND SEPARATED HIMSELF
FROM THE CONNECTION
989
00:43:59,381 --> 00:44:01,999
TO FURTHER LEVELS
OF EXTREMISM AND COMMITMENT.
990
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,654
SINCE TWO MONTHS,
WHEN WE FIRST MET,
991
00:44:04,655 --> 00:44:06,025
THERE'S BEEN
A LOT OF ACTIVITY.
992
00:44:06,034 --> 00:44:08,895
YOU'RE THREE DAYS AWAY
FROM THE...
993
00:44:08,896 --> 00:44:10,616
I GUESS WE COULD CALL IT
THE ANNIVERSARY
994
00:44:10,620 --> 00:44:11,968
OF THE UNITE THE RIGHT.
995
00:44:11,969 --> 00:44:14,615
A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE TO CALL IT
UNITE THE RIGHT RALLY 2.
996
00:44:14,620 --> 00:44:16,690
FROM CHARLOTTESVILLE
UNTIL NOW,
997
00:44:16,691 --> 00:44:18,688
THE PLATFORM HAS CHANGED
SOMEWHAT.
998
00:44:18,689 --> 00:44:21,339
YOU HAVE RE-BRANDED,
ESSENTIALLY,
999
00:44:21,344 --> 00:44:23,723
AND ARE NOW CALLING FOR
A WHITE CIVIL RIGHTS PLATFORM,
1000
00:44:23,724 --> 00:44:25,900
WHICH IS QUITE DIFFERENT
THAN LAST YEAR.
1001
00:44:25,901 --> 00:44:29,585
AND I SEE THAT THERE'S BEEN
SORT OF CONFLICT WITH NEO-NAZIS,
1002
00:44:29,586 --> 00:44:30,964
TO THE POINT WHERE
YOU'VE ACTUALLY TOLD THEM
1003
00:44:30,965 --> 00:44:32,274
THEY'RE NOT WELCOME
AT YOUR RALLY,
1004
00:44:32,275 --> 00:44:33,405
WHICH I THINK IS
WONDERFUL.
1005
00:44:33,413 --> 00:44:35,213
I THINK, AT THE END OF THE DAY,
1006
00:44:35,214 --> 00:44:37,856
IT'S NOT WORTH
GIVING UP ON JASON.
1007
00:44:37,862 --> 00:44:39,585
HE'S AT AN EARLY STAGE
1008
00:44:39,586 --> 00:44:41,166
OF APPROPRIATENESS
FOR INTERVENTION,
1009
00:44:41,172 --> 00:44:45,067
AND IT IS NECESSARY AND
MORE BENEFICIAL, I BELIEVE,
1010
00:44:45,068 --> 00:44:46,548
FROM THE PHILOSOPHY
THAT WE APPROACH
1011
00:44:46,551 --> 00:44:48,240
COMBATING
VIOLENT EXTREMISM FROM,
1012
00:44:48,241 --> 00:44:53,791
TO PROMOTE ENGAGEMENT, RATHER
THAN TO SHUN AND TO DIVIDE.
1013
00:44:53,793 --> 00:44:55,973
Reporter: VIRGINIA'S GOVERNOR
HAS DECLARED A STATE OF EMERGENCY
1014
00:44:55,974 --> 00:44:57,654
AS CHARLOTTESVILLE MARKS
ONE YEAR
1015
00:44:57,655 --> 00:45:00,715
SINCE THE DEADLY
WHITE SUPREMACIST RALLY THERE.
1016
00:45:02,689 --> 00:45:04,829
Reporter #2:
ONE YEAR AFTER CHARLOTTESVILLE,
1017
00:45:04,830 --> 00:45:08,407
A VERY DIFFERENT SCENE HERE
IN THE NATION'S CAPITAL.
1018
00:45:08,413 --> 00:45:10,412
MY NAME IS JASON KESSLER.
1019
00:45:10,413 --> 00:45:13,073
I ORGANIZED LAST YEAR'S
UNITE THE RIGHT RALLY,
1020
00:45:13,074 --> 00:45:15,408
AND I ORGANIZED
THIS YEAR'S RALLY.
1021
00:45:15,413 --> 00:45:17,343
Reporter #3:
A HANDFUL OF WHITE NATIONALISTS,
1022
00:45:17,344 --> 00:45:20,004
JUST TWO DOZEN, GATHERED
WITHIN SIGHT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.
1023
00:45:20,005 --> 00:45:21,516
[ CROWD SHOUTING ]
1024
00:45:21,517 --> 00:45:24,617
Reporter #4: LEGIONS OF
COUNTERPROTESTERS SWARMED THE CITY.
1025
00:45:24,620 --> 00:45:26,516
LOVE, NOT HATE!
1026
00:45:26,517 --> 00:45:28,237
LOVE, NOT HATE!
1027
00:45:28,241 --> 00:45:29,861
LOVE, NOT HATE!
1028
00:45:34,689 --> 00:45:37,279
Levin: WE CAN POINT THE CAMERAS
AT THESE RALLIES
1029
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,545
AND MAKE JOKES ABOUT KESSLER
AND HIS INABILITY
1030
00:45:40,551 --> 00:45:45,826
TO GET ANY KIND OF CROWD NOW
EXCEPT COUNTERPROTESTERS.
1031
00:45:45,827 --> 00:45:47,167
All:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
1032
00:45:47,172 --> 00:45:48,692
Levin:
BUT HERE'S THE THING --
1033
00:45:48,693 --> 00:45:54,274
9% OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC SAY
THAT NAZI VIEWS ARE ACCEPTABLE.
1034
00:45:54,275 --> 00:45:56,615
THERE'S A MOVEMENT THAT'S
A LITTLE BIT MORE SHROUDED,
1035
00:45:56,620 --> 00:45:59,720
THAT SAYS, "WE JUST
DON'T WANT CULTURAL GENOCIDE.
1036
00:45:59,724 --> 00:46:02,481
WE DON'T WANT
THE CHANGE OF TRADITIONS."
1037
00:46:02,482 --> 00:46:06,964
THEY USE THAT AS THE TRAPPINGS
TO GET FOLKS IN.
1038
00:46:06,965 --> 00:46:10,825
THE NEFARIOUS THING IS THAT
WE'RE LOOKING
1039
00:46:10,827 --> 00:46:13,277
AT THE SHINIEST, LOUDEST
OBJECTS...
1040
00:46:15,551 --> 00:46:21,688
...WITHOUT REALIZING WE'RE
SEEING A POLITICAL DE-EVOLUTION
1041
00:46:21,689 --> 00:46:23,895
THAT EXPLOITS FEAR.
1042
00:46:23,896 --> 00:46:25,546
IT'S NOT JUST IN
THE UNITED STATES.
1043
00:46:25,551 --> 00:46:29,688
THIS NATIONALISM IS NOW
AN INTERNATIONAL MOVEMENT.
1044
00:46:29,689 --> 00:46:31,069
CLOSE THE DUTCH BORDERS
1045
00:46:31,070 --> 00:46:32,688
FOR IMMIGRANTS
FROM ISLAMIC COUNTRIES.
1046
00:46:32,689 --> 00:46:35,069
Havlicek:
DEEP POLARIZATION, DIVISION --
1047
00:46:35,070 --> 00:46:38,408
HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THIS
IN SOCIETY?
1048
00:46:38,413 --> 00:46:41,481
I THINK WE'RE FACING
A PERFECT STORM.
1049
00:46:41,482 --> 00:46:44,032
THE KIND OF PEACE
AND SOCIAL HARMONY
1050
00:46:44,034 --> 00:46:47,619
THAT WE HAVE BEEN SO LUCKY
TO LIVE IN
1051
00:46:47,620 --> 00:46:50,410
IN SO MANY
OF OUR WESTERN COUNTRIES
1052
00:46:50,413 --> 00:46:53,205
IS PRECARIOUS.
1053
00:46:53,206 --> 00:46:56,716
EACH OF THESE GROUPS
HAS A VERY CLEAR STRATEGY
1054
00:46:56,724 --> 00:47:00,481
TO ENGAGE THOSE THAT AREN'T
YET THEIR HARD-CORE BASE,
1055
00:47:00,482 --> 00:47:03,895
AND THEN ALSO TO UNDERMINE
THOSE THAT OPPOSE THEM.
1056
00:47:03,896 --> 00:47:06,236
AND THEY HAVE TOOLS
AT THEIR DISPOSAL
1057
00:47:06,241 --> 00:47:11,447
THAT ENABLES THEM TO REACH
AUDIENCES AROUND THE WORLD
1058
00:47:11,448 --> 00:47:14,168
IN NANOSECONDS.
1059
00:47:14,172 --> 00:47:16,688
BUT WE HAVE THOSE TOOLS, TOO.
1060
00:47:16,689 --> 00:47:19,588
WE NEED BUSINESSES INVOLVED,
CITIES INVOLVED, ORGANIZATIONS.
1061
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:22,026
WE NEED CREDIBLE VOICES.
WE NEED INFLUENCES.
1062
00:47:22,034 --> 00:47:25,999
WE NEED TO HAVE A WHOLE-SOCIETY
RESPONSE TO THIS.
1063
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,070
AND I BELIEVE WE CAN
TURN THE TIDE.
1064
00:47:28,071 --> 00:47:29,618
BUT WE NEED TO DO IT.
1065
00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:35,100
♪♪
1066
00:47:35,103 --> 00:47:37,343
Woman: AT THE BEGINNING,
THERE WAS ONE OVEN.
1067
00:47:37,344 --> 00:47:41,136
IT BURNED ABOUT FIVE, SIX
CORPSES PER ONE HOUR.
1068
00:47:41,137 --> 00:47:44,337
BUT IT WAS NOT ENOUGH
FOR THE CAMP.
1069
00:47:44,344 --> 00:47:47,171
Man: WE ALL HAVE
ELEMENTS OF HATRED
1070
00:47:47,172 --> 00:47:50,481
THAT ARE POTENTIALLY
VERY STRONG IN US.
1071
00:47:50,482 --> 00:47:53,102
Man #2: NOBODY COULD SAY EXACTLY
WHAT HE WAS GOING TO SAY.
1072
00:47:53,103 --> 00:47:55,313
THERE WERE SO MANY MOMENTS
THAT WE THOUGHT THAT,
1073
00:47:55,314 --> 00:47:56,720
"IT'S ALL OVER."
1074
00:47:56,724 --> 00:47:59,484
WE KNEW THAT IT WAS JUST
A MATTER OF TIME.
86120
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