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It was early in 1974
when Ted started acting
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00:00:12,888 --> 00:00:15,138
differently towards me...
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00:00:18,978 --> 00:00:20,688
One day,
I came home and I found him
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00:00:20,730 --> 00:00:22,980
inside my apartment...
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00:00:23,023 --> 00:00:26,323
He laid down with his head
on my lap, and just sobbed.
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00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,030
He told me that he
had to tell me something
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00:00:29,071 --> 00:00:33,741
that I would probably
be shocked about.
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00:00:33,784 --> 00:00:36,704
He told me that he was
gonna drop out of law school.
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00:00:36,746 --> 00:00:38,246
He said, "I don't know
what's wrong with me."
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00:00:38,289 --> 00:00:40,673
He talked about not
being able to concentrate.
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00:00:40,708 --> 00:00:44,798
I was very surprised that
he was having this meltdown.
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00:00:44,837 --> 00:00:47,667
I know now, in hindsight,
what he was talking about.
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00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:55,074
14
00:00:56,223 --> 00:00:57,483
Fantasizing
all the time
15
00:00:57,516 --> 00:00:59,136
was what he was
talking about.
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00:00:59,185 --> 00:01:00,975
He couldn't concentrate,
he didn't go to class,
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00:01:01,020 --> 00:01:04,150
because he was...
18
00:01:04,190 --> 00:01:06,530
fighting the obsession
to kill people.
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00:01:38,349 --> 00:01:41,389
Know how you can
end dishwashing forever?
20
00:01:41,435 --> 00:01:44,475
Let your husband
do the dishes!
21
00:01:44,522 --> 00:01:46,692
Ha.
Who am I kidding?
22
00:01:46,732 --> 00:01:48,402
We know who's
gonna do them.
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00:01:48,442 --> 00:01:50,572
You.
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00:01:54,532 --> 00:01:57,492
Women are
supposed to be selfless,
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00:01:57,535 --> 00:02:00,905
self-sacrificing,
and helpful.
26
00:02:00,955 --> 00:02:04,165
And if you're selfish,
look out for yourself,
27
00:02:04,208 --> 00:02:06,168
you're evil.
28
00:02:09,046 --> 00:02:11,466
Women are conditioned
to be nice in two ways.
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00:02:11,507 --> 00:02:13,967
They're told that's
a nice thing to do,
30
00:02:14,009 --> 00:02:17,469
and they're told
that if they don't,
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00:02:17,513 --> 00:02:19,643
something bad
is gonna happen.
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00:02:23,185 --> 00:02:27,145
You see it in dramatic
films and television.
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00:02:27,189 --> 00:02:29,979
You see it
everywhere you go.
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00:02:30,025 --> 00:02:32,815
How would you like
to waste away on the moon?
35
00:02:33,904 --> 00:02:35,954
I remember
The Honeymooners.
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00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:38,950
The husband was always
threatening the wife.
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00:02:38,993 --> 00:02:41,373
Bang, zoom!
38
00:02:41,412 --> 00:02:42,832
Get my supper.
39
00:02:42,872 --> 00:02:44,212
And people laughed.
40
00:02:44,248 --> 00:02:46,038
And as a little kid,
I thought,
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00:02:46,083 --> 00:02:49,253
"Well, I guess it's okay
to hit your wife."
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00:02:56,218 --> 00:03:00,808
My dad told me
I could do anything.
43
00:03:00,848 --> 00:03:02,928
He loved having
women in law enforcement
44
00:03:02,975 --> 00:03:06,555
because he said they gave
a different perspective,
45
00:03:06,604 --> 00:03:07,984
that they could get things,
46
00:03:08,022 --> 00:03:11,362
and ask people things
that a man couldn't ask,
47
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,200
especially with children
and female victims.
48
00:03:15,237 --> 00:03:17,867
He told me what
to take in college,
49
00:03:17,907 --> 00:03:19,577
and to follow my dreams.
50
00:03:23,078 --> 00:03:26,788
I was at Central
Washington State in Ellensburg.
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00:03:26,832 --> 00:03:30,672
Most of the girls that I knew
went on to secretarial school.
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00:03:30,711 --> 00:03:33,381
I took secretarial classes
53
00:03:33,422 --> 00:03:36,592
because I knew I wanted
to work through college.
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00:03:36,634 --> 00:03:38,184
I started out as a secretary
55
00:03:38,218 --> 00:03:41,638
at the campus police department
in Ellensburg,
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00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,480
but I wanted
to do something more.
57
00:03:44,516 --> 00:03:46,846
Then the chief saw
how well I was doing,
58
00:03:46,894 --> 00:03:49,444
and he knew that
my dad had been a cop,
59
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,230
and he said, "I think you need
to go to the police academy."
60
00:03:52,274 --> 00:03:54,494
So he sent me to
the police academy,
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00:03:54,526 --> 00:03:59,156
and I was the only female
out of a class of 38.
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00:03:59,198 --> 00:04:02,078
It was a dream that
girls didn't dare dream.
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00:04:04,870 --> 00:04:08,080
On television,
there was Highway Patrol.
64
00:04:08,123 --> 00:04:10,083
There was never
any women in that,
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00:04:10,125 --> 00:04:13,875
unless they were the secretary
or a file clerk.
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00:04:17,549 --> 00:04:20,929
77 Sunset Strip,
no women in that,
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00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:25,560
except being conquered
by the men in a sexual manner.
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00:04:25,599 --> 00:04:29,729
Alright, you've
released your tensions,
69
00:04:29,770 --> 00:04:34,360
but I don't like being
the emotional outlet.
70
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,280
I had a hard time
dealing with the men
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00:04:36,318 --> 00:04:38,278
that were in my department.
72
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,120
I have spoken to men
that have told me
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00:04:42,157 --> 00:04:45,907
"Yeah, we did all these
horrible things to women
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00:04:45,953 --> 00:04:49,923
"to make them quit,
and sometimes it worked."
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00:04:49,957 --> 00:04:52,127
And they would
laugh about it.
76
00:04:54,378 --> 00:04:56,128
I was a detective
with King County Police
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00:04:56,171 --> 00:04:57,511
in Seattle.
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00:04:57,548 --> 00:05:01,088
It was a time when
there were no other women,
79
00:05:01,135 --> 00:05:04,255
other than the four who were
in my police academy class,
80
00:05:04,304 --> 00:05:07,604
and the rules or
regulations required
81
00:05:07,641 --> 00:05:11,231
that you be a certain height
and a certain weight,
82
00:05:11,270 --> 00:05:13,520
and I didn't meet
the weight requirement.
83
00:05:13,564 --> 00:05:14,984
I was too thin.
84
00:05:15,024 --> 00:05:17,324
And so I did
have to bulk up
85
00:05:17,359 --> 00:05:20,779
in order to pass
the physical exam,
86
00:05:20,821 --> 00:05:23,571
but I didn't let any of that
stand in my way.
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00:05:26,618 --> 00:05:29,578
It is graduation day
for the national academy.
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00:05:29,621 --> 00:05:31,871
Members of the class
represent almost every type
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00:05:31,915 --> 00:05:34,665
of United States
law enforcement agency,
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00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:37,550
as well as students
from other countries.
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00:05:37,588 --> 00:05:39,588
In our
senior seminar,
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00:05:39,631 --> 00:05:43,341
an FBI agent came to the class
to do some recruiting,
93
00:05:43,385 --> 00:05:46,885
and he was a very...
94
00:05:46,930 --> 00:05:50,680
poster boy,
if you will, for the FBI:
95
00:05:50,726 --> 00:05:53,016
good-looking,
told great stories,
96
00:05:53,062 --> 00:05:57,402
made the FBI sound as if
it was the best place to work
97
00:05:57,441 --> 00:05:59,031
in law enforcement.
98
00:05:59,068 --> 00:06:02,398
He provided job applications
for the special agent position
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00:06:02,446 --> 00:06:06,236
to all of the people
in the class who were male.
100
00:06:06,283 --> 00:06:08,793
But when it came to me,
he said, "I'm sorry,
101
00:06:08,827 --> 00:06:10,787
"I can't give you an
application to be an agent.
102
00:06:10,829 --> 00:06:14,749
"The FBI doesn't hire
women as FBI agents."
103
00:06:18,545 --> 00:06:20,165
We have
very few leads
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00:06:20,214 --> 00:06:22,384
in the disappearance
of Lynda Healy,
105
00:06:22,424 --> 00:06:24,184
although since the last time
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00:06:24,218 --> 00:06:26,258
that we made a
press release on this,
107
00:06:26,303 --> 00:06:30,063
we have interviewed
65 people.
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00:06:30,099 --> 00:06:33,099
We have not ruled out
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00:06:33,143 --> 00:06:36,403
any case of foul play here.
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00:06:36,438 --> 00:06:37,818
I was
living in Seattle
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00:06:37,856 --> 00:06:40,726
at the time that Lynda Healy
went missing.
112
00:06:40,776 --> 00:06:44,656
So here disappearance
was very shocking,
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00:06:44,696 --> 00:06:46,816
and there were
dozens of theories
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00:06:46,865 --> 00:06:48,615
about who could
have taken her,
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00:06:48,659 --> 00:06:50,449
and there were
very few clues.
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00:06:54,414 --> 00:06:56,964
I was sitting at
my dining room table with Ted,
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00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,090
and I was living in
the U District at that time,
118
00:07:00,129 --> 00:07:02,799
and there was an article
in the newspaper:
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00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:06,470
a college co-ed had been
abducted from her bedroom
120
00:07:06,510 --> 00:07:08,850
just a few blocks from
where I was living.
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00:07:08,887 --> 00:07:13,347
And her roommates were home,
and nobody heard anything,
122
00:07:13,392 --> 00:07:15,852
so I commented on like,
"How can that happen?
123
00:07:15,894 --> 00:07:20,114
"How could people not
hear what was going on?"
124
00:07:20,149 --> 00:07:23,899
And he did tell me that I
needed to be aware at all times.
125
00:07:23,944 --> 00:07:27,824
And I had a back door
that went downstairs
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00:07:27,865 --> 00:07:29,865
to the basement apartment,
127
00:07:29,908 --> 00:07:31,448
and it had this lock on it,
128
00:07:31,493 --> 00:07:33,333
and he said, "You know,
you really should change that."
129
00:07:33,370 --> 00:07:36,040
He said, "That's dangerous."
130
00:07:40,961 --> 00:07:44,131
Ted really seemed
to like being a family unit.
131
00:07:44,173 --> 00:07:46,633
I think he was
looking for stability.
132
00:07:46,675 --> 00:07:51,175
It seemed like he'd been in
kind of a drift mode before,
133
00:07:51,221 --> 00:07:54,061
and I think he was really
just wanting to like
134
00:07:54,099 --> 00:07:56,189
be a part of something.
135
00:08:00,397 --> 00:08:02,517
It was the avenue
into my mother's heart
136
00:08:02,566 --> 00:08:04,226
to win me over.
137
00:08:04,276 --> 00:08:06,986
He probably looked at me
and saw a lonely little girl
138
00:08:07,029 --> 00:08:08,949
in an unfamiliar place,
139
00:08:08,989 --> 00:08:10,779
and,
"I'll just charm her."
140
00:08:10,824 --> 00:08:13,044
And it was not hard at all.
141
00:08:13,076 --> 00:08:15,196
I thought he was marvelous.
142
00:08:15,245 --> 00:08:20,125
He just delighted me, and
he took part in raising me.
143
00:08:24,171 --> 00:08:26,171
I felt him
to be somewhat magical,
144
00:08:26,215 --> 00:08:28,005
actually, as a child.
145
00:08:28,050 --> 00:08:31,550
He could jump very high
off the ground,
146
00:08:31,595 --> 00:08:33,505
run very fast,
147
00:08:33,555 --> 00:08:38,135
and he didn't have to think
about springing into action.
148
00:08:38,185 --> 00:08:40,475
He just moved.
149
00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,360
I saw that with him
many times.
150
00:08:42,397 --> 00:08:44,267
And one time,
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00:08:44,316 --> 00:08:47,486
he had caught something
that was falling off a shelf.
152
00:08:47,527 --> 00:08:49,197
It was behind him
as he sat in a chair,
153
00:08:49,238 --> 00:08:50,908
and he didn't even
turn his head;
154
00:08:50,948 --> 00:08:53,118
he just caught it
with his hand.
155
00:08:53,158 --> 00:08:55,988
I mean, he was
really uncanny
156
00:08:56,036 --> 00:08:58,956
with his physical
connectedness
157
00:08:58,997 --> 00:09:02,247
and his vision
of everything
158
00:09:02,292 --> 00:09:04,802
without looking at it.
159
00:09:04,836 --> 00:09:09,086
He was a lot like an animal
would be seeing you
160
00:09:09,132 --> 00:09:11,932
without looking at you.
161
00:09:16,431 --> 00:09:18,061
The conflict
in the first couple of years
162
00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:19,940
was that I wanted
to get married,
163
00:09:19,977 --> 00:09:22,977
and he wasn't ready to commit.
164
00:09:23,021 --> 00:09:25,071
You know, he was reluctant,
and I knew that,
165
00:09:25,107 --> 00:09:26,727
but we got the
marriage license,
166
00:09:26,775 --> 00:09:28,145
and then he picked a fight
167
00:09:28,193 --> 00:09:31,613
and tore the marriage license
into a million little pieces,
168
00:09:31,655 --> 00:09:34,445
and that was
the end of that.
169
00:09:34,491 --> 00:09:36,161
After he ripped it up,
170
00:09:36,201 --> 00:09:38,791
I thought, "Well,
the problem is me.
171
00:09:38,829 --> 00:09:41,499
"I've gotta just back off
and not be so persistent
172
00:09:41,540 --> 00:09:43,500
"about wanting this."
173
00:09:59,516 --> 00:10:01,226
I got a call
from Chief Pickles,
174
00:10:01,268 --> 00:10:03,478
who was the chief of police
175
00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,980
for the Central Washington
State College.
176
00:10:07,024 --> 00:10:09,654
He said,
"Susan Rancourt's missing."
177
00:10:09,693 --> 00:10:10,823
And I said,
"What happened?"
178
00:10:10,861 --> 00:10:13,281
He said,
"She just disappeared."
179
00:10:13,322 --> 00:10:17,582
This is a missing young woman
who would never disappear.
180
00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:20,447
She's very responsible.
181
00:10:20,495 --> 00:10:22,955
She's bright.
She's a good student.
182
00:10:22,998 --> 00:10:24,998
She volunteers.
183
00:10:25,042 --> 00:10:27,962
And she has worked for
our department as a volunteer.
184
00:10:34,634 --> 00:10:38,644
Susan was
bright, inquisitive.
185
00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:44,140
She just excelled in learning,
always reading.
186
00:10:44,186 --> 00:10:46,266
I'd move her bed
to clean under it,
187
00:10:46,313 --> 00:10:49,903
and she had every school paper
from kindergarten
188
00:10:49,941 --> 00:10:53,451
tucked under her bed
in neat piles.
189
00:10:53,487 --> 00:10:54,907
That was her life,
190
00:10:54,946 --> 00:10:57,236
going to school,
going to college.
191
00:10:57,282 --> 00:10:59,332
She was in her element.
192
00:10:59,368 --> 00:11:00,658
She smiled
all the time.
193
00:11:00,702 --> 00:11:02,042
She had
a beautiful smile.
194
00:11:02,079 --> 00:11:04,289
She was a smiler.
She smiled all the time.
195
00:11:04,331 --> 00:11:08,001
She was very upbeat, and...
196
00:11:08,043 --> 00:11:14,303
She was interested
in the sciences.
197
00:11:14,341 --> 00:11:20,181
She was one of those that would
have kept learning forever.
198
00:11:27,020 --> 00:11:30,770
Susan had left
the resident assistant meeting
199
00:11:30,816 --> 00:11:32,146
at the library,
200
00:11:32,192 --> 00:11:35,862
and took off
towards her dorm,
201
00:11:35,904 --> 00:11:38,704
and that was the last
anybody saw her.
202
00:11:40,450 --> 00:11:41,990
Her roommate
called and said,
203
00:11:42,035 --> 00:11:44,445
"Sue didn't come home
last night."
204
00:11:44,496 --> 00:11:48,376
I said, "Are you serious?
What's going on?"
205
00:11:50,836 --> 00:11:52,336
Mom and Dad,
we all went over to campus.
206
00:11:52,379 --> 00:11:55,089
We just stopped
and we went over.
207
00:11:55,132 --> 00:11:58,262
And that was when
my husband started yelling,
208
00:11:58,301 --> 00:12:01,391
"My daughter's missing.
Something's happened."
209
00:12:01,430 --> 00:12:05,100
He was screaming
loud and clear.
210
00:12:05,142 --> 00:12:09,942
The Boy Scouts came in
and did a ground search.
211
00:12:09,980 --> 00:12:12,730
Alleys, sheds.
212
00:12:12,774 --> 00:12:16,244
They even lifted up
manhole covers.
213
00:12:16,278 --> 00:12:20,068
My brother had a friend
that had a private airplane,
214
00:12:20,115 --> 00:12:23,365
and they flew
a grid over the area.
215
00:12:23,410 --> 00:12:26,160
She had on
a yellow raincoat,
216
00:12:26,204 --> 00:12:29,464
and they were hoping
that they could spot that.
217
00:12:29,499 --> 00:12:31,749
We didn't know what
our next step could even be.
218
00:12:31,793 --> 00:12:33,633
We were just mystified.
219
00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:35,260
And my husband and I
were driving home
220
00:12:35,297 --> 00:12:36,507
through the mountains,
221
00:12:36,548 --> 00:12:38,798
and I just remember
keeping my eyes on the window
222
00:12:38,842 --> 00:12:39,972
the whole time.
223
00:12:40,010 --> 00:12:41,220
Looking for
that yellow raincoat.
224
00:12:41,261 --> 00:12:42,681
Thinking I'm gonna
find that yellow ski coat,
225
00:12:42,721 --> 00:12:46,021
and I thought, "Even if I
find it in a ditch, would be...
226
00:12:46,057 --> 00:12:48,477
"We just need to find it.
We need to find her.
227
00:12:48,518 --> 00:12:51,688
"We have to keep on,
so we can help her,
228
00:12:51,730 --> 00:12:54,570
"or find her, or, you know,
bring this to a close."
229
00:12:54,608 --> 00:12:58,648
And there were
so many different districts
230
00:12:58,695 --> 00:13:03,155
of law enforcement,
and they were so territorial
231
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,200
that they didn't
really band together.
232
00:13:13,502 --> 00:13:18,472
It was like
pulling rusty old nails
233
00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:22,507
out of...
234
00:13:22,552 --> 00:13:24,762
out of an old tree,
235
00:13:24,804 --> 00:13:27,144
to get any information,
236
00:13:27,182 --> 00:13:30,892
to get any cooperation
from the departments.
237
00:13:30,936 --> 00:13:33,896
And when I started
looking at the case,
238
00:13:33,939 --> 00:13:36,859
I noticed that
there was no evidence,
239
00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:38,690
nothing collected.
240
00:13:38,735 --> 00:13:40,815
I heard a rumour
241
00:13:40,862 --> 00:13:45,332
that a man had worn
bandages around his arm.
242
00:13:45,367 --> 00:13:47,487
He needed help,
and was approaching girls
243
00:13:47,536 --> 00:13:51,036
at a library on campus.
244
00:13:51,081 --> 00:13:54,791
And at the library
is where I believe
245
00:13:54,834 --> 00:13:59,384
she met a man with
bandages around his arm.
246
00:13:59,422 --> 00:14:01,932
Somebody needs help,
you go help them.
247
00:14:05,762 --> 00:14:09,772
He knew that one of
our vulnerabilities
248
00:14:09,808 --> 00:14:13,768
was to be nurturing,
249
00:14:13,812 --> 00:14:16,312
and helpful,
and to care.
250
00:14:16,356 --> 00:14:20,936
Now, here you have
a wounded human being,
251
00:14:20,986 --> 00:14:25,526
and for most of us,
particularly at that time,
252
00:14:25,574 --> 00:14:28,704
we wouldn't think
of not helping.
253
00:14:31,371 --> 00:14:33,961
I was a student at
the University of Washington,
254
00:14:33,999 --> 00:14:38,129
and I was deeply immersed
in the anti-rape movement.
255
00:14:38,169 --> 00:14:40,299
I began teaching women
256
00:14:40,338 --> 00:14:42,588
in order to defend themselves,
257
00:14:42,632 --> 00:14:44,472
to feel more empowered.
258
00:14:44,509 --> 00:14:46,759
Somebody looked at me and said,
"Hey, you, you know karate.
259
00:14:46,803 --> 00:14:48,603
"Why don't you teach
self-defense?"
260
00:14:52,892 --> 00:14:54,392
Ha!
261
00:14:56,688 --> 00:15:01,188
What I tried to do
was get women to question
262
00:15:01,234 --> 00:15:05,284
the messages that they got
as they were growing up.
263
00:15:07,657 --> 00:15:09,657
Last year,
there were like 20 movies
264
00:15:09,701 --> 00:15:12,831
in which they showed
women being raped,
265
00:15:12,871 --> 00:15:15,541
but in Deliverance,
where some guy's getting raped,
266
00:15:15,582 --> 00:15:17,422
you know,
people are shocked,
267
00:15:17,459 --> 00:15:18,879
but nobody thinks
anything of it
268
00:15:18,918 --> 00:15:20,378
when women are
raped in films.
269
00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:21,840
It's just the
way things are.
270
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,970
Women were afraid
to defend themselves
271
00:15:24,007 --> 00:15:25,797
because they'd
grown up learning
272
00:15:25,842 --> 00:15:27,842
that if you tried
to defend yourself,
273
00:15:27,886 --> 00:15:29,296
you'll get killed.
274
00:15:29,346 --> 00:15:33,216
So there was a big incentive
not to fight back,
275
00:15:33,266 --> 00:15:37,896
and that your fate
276
00:15:37,937 --> 00:15:40,607
lay only in submitting.
277
00:15:41,608 --> 00:15:43,818
The best thing to do,
if you're in a rape situation,
278
00:15:43,860 --> 00:15:47,030
is submit, submit, submit
until it hurts,
279
00:15:47,072 --> 00:15:50,032
because it's gonna hurt
a lot less in the long run.
280
00:15:50,075 --> 00:15:51,985
So they have methods
of self-defense;
281
00:15:52,035 --> 00:15:53,575
they have programs for girls.
282
00:15:53,620 --> 00:15:55,960
But the average girl on
the street that's hitchhiking
283
00:15:55,997 --> 00:15:57,537
says, "It couldn't
happen to me,"
284
00:15:57,582 --> 00:15:59,332
so she doesn't take
that self-defense course.
285
00:15:59,376 --> 00:16:01,246
The self-defense course
wouldn't help her, man.
286
00:16:01,294 --> 00:16:03,004
A self-defense course
would get her killed
287
00:16:03,046 --> 00:16:04,256
is what it'd get.
288
00:16:04,297 --> 00:16:05,757
, Jeff.
289
00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:07,879
The woman that
I was with, Jeff,
290
00:16:07,926 --> 00:16:12,716
she fought back
and she's dead.
291
00:16:12,764 --> 00:16:14,724
Saying that women
shouldn't fight back
292
00:16:14,766 --> 00:16:18,016
or they'll be killed,
it's more than women are weak.
293
00:16:18,061 --> 00:16:21,361
To me, it's like
an emotional threat
294
00:16:21,398 --> 00:16:25,358
thrown over the entire
universe of women.
295
00:16:25,402 --> 00:16:28,202
"Submit to us
or we're gonna kill you."
296
00:16:44,170 --> 00:16:46,630
We have a local
festival that's in our area
297
00:16:46,673 --> 00:16:47,973
in Pearce County.
298
00:16:48,007 --> 00:16:50,677
It's a fun festival
that promotes
299
00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:53,219
the daffodil bulb business,
300
00:16:53,263 --> 00:16:55,563
and it's been around
for a long time,
301
00:16:55,598 --> 00:16:58,638
and I was selected
for my high school
302
00:16:58,685 --> 00:17:00,805
as a daffodil princess,
303
00:17:00,854 --> 00:17:03,904
and Georgann was
a representative
304
00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:06,530
from her high school,
and that's how we met.
305
00:17:12,198 --> 00:17:14,448
We did a lot
of really cool stuff.
306
00:17:14,492 --> 00:17:17,752
We went down to Olympia,
our capital,
307
00:17:17,787 --> 00:17:20,367
and we met the governor
and his wife.
308
00:17:20,415 --> 00:17:21,785
We went on
the USS Missouri
309
00:17:21,833 --> 00:17:24,423
where they signed the
World War II peace treaty.
310
00:17:24,461 --> 00:17:26,381
We also went to Seattle.
311
00:17:26,421 --> 00:17:28,971
We went to the Space Needle,
had lunch.
312
00:17:29,007 --> 00:17:31,127
This friendship
really blossomed
313
00:17:31,176 --> 00:17:33,296
because we were
together a lot.
314
00:17:33,344 --> 00:17:36,604
And from there, we lived
together at the Theta House,
315
00:17:36,639 --> 00:17:38,389
at the University
of Washington.
316
00:17:41,811 --> 00:17:43,231
There was
the Theta House,
317
00:17:43,271 --> 00:17:45,821
the Fiji House,
the Gamma Phi House.
318
00:17:45,857 --> 00:17:47,777
They affectionately
call that "Greek Row,"
319
00:17:47,817 --> 00:17:50,947
and it's sororities and
fraternities on both sides.
320
00:17:50,987 --> 00:17:52,067
So we're right there.
321
00:17:52,113 --> 00:17:53,573
I mean, we walked out
on the front steps,
322
00:17:53,615 --> 00:17:57,325
you could see across the street
the entrance to the campus.
323
00:17:57,368 --> 00:17:59,538
We walked on campus
every day,
324
00:17:59,579 --> 00:18:01,329
right from the sorority,
325
00:18:01,372 --> 00:18:03,832
and had a great
group of people
326
00:18:03,875 --> 00:18:05,375
that we were around
all the time.
327
00:18:05,418 --> 00:18:07,208
Everything was possible.
328
00:18:14,719 --> 00:18:17,009
It was
a Saturday night,
329
00:18:17,055 --> 00:18:19,845
and my parents
came up from Utah.
330
00:18:19,891 --> 00:18:21,601
The tradition
in the Mormon faith
331
00:18:21,643 --> 00:18:23,983
is that when you're 8 years old,
you get baptized,
332
00:18:24,020 --> 00:18:28,230
and so I was going to have
my daughter Molly baptized,
333
00:18:28,274 --> 00:18:30,494
and my dad was
gonna do the baptism.
334
00:18:30,527 --> 00:18:33,987
And so we went out to dinner
the night before,
335
00:18:34,030 --> 00:18:37,080
and Ted treated us
all to pizza.
336
00:18:41,454 --> 00:18:43,464
He was
in a big hurry to go
337
00:18:43,498 --> 00:18:46,788
after we were
done with pizza.
338
00:18:46,835 --> 00:18:49,625
The next day,
he didn't show up.
339
00:18:49,671 --> 00:18:51,551
He completely
missed the baptism.
340
00:18:51,589 --> 00:18:53,299
He was probably
two hours late.
341
00:18:53,341 --> 00:18:56,011
And, after it was all done,
he showed up at the church,
342
00:18:56,052 --> 00:18:59,182
and he... I forget what
he said was the excuse;
343
00:18:59,222 --> 00:19:01,562
car trouble
or something like that.
344
00:19:01,599 --> 00:19:03,889
I was mad because
he was making me look bad
345
00:19:03,935 --> 00:19:05,265
in front of my parents,
346
00:19:05,311 --> 00:19:08,191
but, you know, we never
in our wildest dreams
347
00:19:08,231 --> 00:19:11,231
thought he was out
abducting people.
348
00:19:18,449 --> 00:19:20,029
The information
that has come to us
349
00:19:20,076 --> 00:19:22,946
explained that
she had disappeared
350
00:19:22,996 --> 00:19:27,166
on the early part
of June 1st.
351
00:19:27,208 --> 00:19:29,918
I wasn't aware
that Brenda Ball had been
352
00:19:29,961 --> 00:19:34,301
abducted that night
until many years later.
353
00:19:34,340 --> 00:19:36,380
You know, she was seen
talking to a man
354
00:19:36,426 --> 00:19:38,796
with a cast on his arm,
355
00:19:38,845 --> 00:19:40,925
but the police
didn't connect it together
356
00:19:40,972 --> 00:19:42,682
with the other abductions
that went on
357
00:19:42,724 --> 00:19:44,814
in the Pacific Northwest.
358
00:19:56,029 --> 00:19:57,859
We had these
giant trees out front
359
00:19:57,906 --> 00:19:59,156
that covered the lights,
360
00:19:59,198 --> 00:20:02,038
and so it was fairly dark.
361
00:20:02,076 --> 00:20:04,156
I went down the steps,
and there was a man
362
00:20:04,203 --> 00:20:07,423
that was at the foot of
the steps on crutches,
363
00:20:07,457 --> 00:20:10,497
holding a gas can,
and he had a cast on his leg.
364
00:20:10,543 --> 00:20:12,923
And he said,
"Can you help me?"
365
00:20:12,962 --> 00:20:14,012
And I said, "Sure."
366
00:20:14,047 --> 00:20:15,667
He goes,
"I ran out of gas.
367
00:20:15,715 --> 00:20:17,795
"It's just up the way.
368
00:20:17,842 --> 00:20:20,972
"I'm having a horrible time
trying to carry this gas can."
369
00:20:21,012 --> 00:20:22,512
And I said,
"Okay, sure."
370
00:20:22,555 --> 00:20:25,885
And so I picked it up,
and he said,
371
00:20:25,934 --> 00:20:27,774
"I'm gonna put
some gas in the car,
372
00:20:27,810 --> 00:20:29,850
"if you would get inside."
373
00:20:29,896 --> 00:20:31,896
It was a Volkswagen bug.
374
00:20:31,940 --> 00:20:34,820
And I got in,
and he said,
375
00:20:34,859 --> 00:20:37,199
"When I tell you, in a minute,
there's a button
376
00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:41,156
"that's underneath
the steering wheel area.
377
00:20:41,199 --> 00:20:43,329
"If you would push that,
because I'm having car trouble."
378
00:20:43,368 --> 00:20:45,038
And I'm like,
"Okay."
379
00:20:45,078 --> 00:20:47,208
And he says, "Okay, well,
I'll let you know."
380
00:20:47,246 --> 00:20:48,366
And I said, "Alright."
381
00:20:48,414 --> 00:20:51,084
And so I'd been just
not a long time, maybe,
382
00:20:51,125 --> 00:20:53,245
maybe a minute, maybe two;
383
00:20:53,294 --> 00:20:55,554
all of the sudden,
it was just like...
384
00:20:55,588 --> 00:20:57,008
it was just like
this cold chill.
385
00:20:57,048 --> 00:20:58,928
I was like, "Wait,
something's not right here.
386
00:20:58,967 --> 00:21:01,387
"This isn't right.
This just isn't right.
387
00:21:01,427 --> 00:21:03,297
I mean, I just...
I just felt it, you know?
388
00:21:03,346 --> 00:21:06,056
That sixth sense
that you have.
389
00:21:06,099 --> 00:21:09,099
And I jumped up
out of the car,
390
00:21:09,143 --> 00:21:10,483
and I took off running.
391
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,070
I said, "Sorry, bye!"
And I left.
392
00:21:14,107 --> 00:21:17,237
And I never thought
a thing about it, ever,
393
00:21:17,276 --> 00:21:22,066
until...
394
00:21:22,115 --> 00:21:24,195
well, after George.
395
00:21:33,918 --> 00:21:36,298
Georgann Hawkins
was last seen Monday evening,
396
00:21:36,337 --> 00:21:37,837
shortly after midnight.
397
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,590
She had been visiting
at the Beta House,
398
00:21:39,632 --> 00:21:42,762
and was returning to her house
just a half-block away,
399
00:21:42,802 --> 00:21:44,432
down this alley.
400
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:47,810
Police believe she
went along this route,
401
00:21:47,849 --> 00:21:50,689
and then somewhere
she disappeared.
402
00:21:54,814 --> 00:21:56,864
She was walking
down the alleyway
403
00:21:56,899 --> 00:21:58,399
towards our back door.
404
00:21:58,443 --> 00:22:01,953
One of the Betas stuck
his head out and said,
405
00:22:01,988 --> 00:22:03,818
"Hey, George,
where are you going?"
406
00:22:03,865 --> 00:22:06,905
"I've got a Spanish
final in the morning.
407
00:22:06,951 --> 00:22:08,871
"I gotta get back and study."
408
00:22:08,911 --> 00:22:12,291
And so there was some activity
down the alleyway,
409
00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:13,581
and she looked down,
410
00:22:13,624 --> 00:22:16,254
and then looked back
at Dwayne and said,
411
00:22:16,294 --> 00:22:19,464
"Okay, hasta luego,"
and waved goodbye to him.
412
00:22:19,505 --> 00:22:22,465
And my room faced the alleyway,
and I was on the second story
413
00:22:22,508 --> 00:22:24,718
with the window open studying,
414
00:22:24,761 --> 00:22:27,391
and I didn't hear a sound.
415
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:29,850
So the next day,
we spoke to Mrs. Bates,
416
00:22:29,891 --> 00:22:31,851
which was our house mother
at the time,
417
00:22:31,893 --> 00:22:33,643
that lived in the sorority,
418
00:22:33,686 --> 00:22:37,356
and immediately we had it
on the news that night.
419
00:22:37,398 --> 00:22:40,068
It's unreal,
and it's a nightmare,
420
00:22:40,109 --> 00:22:43,109
and nothing in anybody's
manual would prepare you
421
00:22:43,154 --> 00:22:44,784
for something like this.
422
00:22:44,822 --> 00:22:46,412
Mostly they're frightened,
423
00:22:46,449 --> 00:22:49,699
and I sense
a good deal of anger.
424
00:22:49,744 --> 00:22:51,124
Against whom?
425
00:22:51,162 --> 00:22:53,582
Against anyone who
would feel they had the right
426
00:22:53,623 --> 00:22:55,883
to walk into the middle
of a young lady's life
427
00:22:55,917 --> 00:22:58,417
and disrupt it
in this way.
428
00:23:05,009 --> 00:23:07,509
Do you suspect
foul play in this disappearance?
429
00:23:07,553 --> 00:23:10,313
I think it's too
early to suspect any foul play.
430
00:23:10,348 --> 00:23:12,228
We just got the case
this morning,
431
00:23:12,266 --> 00:23:15,306
and it's hard to say whether
there's any foul play or not.
432
00:23:15,353 --> 00:23:16,903
It was
all over the news.
433
00:23:16,938 --> 00:23:19,108
When we walked out,
they were there.
434
00:23:19,148 --> 00:23:20,568
They, being the reporters.
435
00:23:20,608 --> 00:23:21,568
"We want to do
an interview.
436
00:23:21,609 --> 00:23:22,689
"We want to get this."
437
00:23:22,735 --> 00:23:25,445
And you can see,
I'm almost flip about it.
438
00:23:25,488 --> 00:23:26,658
You knew Georgann
for quite a while,
439
00:23:26,697 --> 00:23:27,987
didn't you?
440
00:23:28,032 --> 00:23:30,492
I met
Georgann in December '72,
441
00:23:30,535 --> 00:23:33,075
and she was very outgoing,
very outgoing,
442
00:23:33,121 --> 00:23:35,411
and quite studious also.
443
00:23:35,456 --> 00:23:36,916
Is she involved
in a lot of activities?
444
00:23:36,958 --> 00:23:38,038
When I make
that little comment,
445
00:23:38,084 --> 00:23:39,504
you can even see
the smile on my face.
446
00:23:39,544 --> 00:23:40,804
"Well, she's quite
studious too."
447
00:23:40,837 --> 00:23:43,547
When I said that,
I was being kind of funny,
448
00:23:43,589 --> 00:23:47,049
because I wanted her mom,
specifically,
449
00:23:47,093 --> 00:23:48,643
to know that she did study.
450
00:23:48,678 --> 00:23:51,348
It wasn't like she was
partying or anything.
451
00:23:51,389 --> 00:23:54,179
And after they cut
the cameras down,
452
00:23:54,225 --> 00:23:56,015
I said, "Man, that's...
453
00:23:56,060 --> 00:23:57,900
"George is gonna love
that I said that."
454
00:23:57,937 --> 00:24:00,307
"She's
gonna love that I said that."
455
00:24:00,356 --> 00:24:01,646
And we were kind of
giggling about it
456
00:24:01,691 --> 00:24:04,361
because I never--
I honestly, at that time,
457
00:24:04,402 --> 00:24:06,572
never believed for a moment
that she was gone,
458
00:24:06,612 --> 00:24:08,872
that she was not
coming back to us.
459
00:24:14,996 --> 00:24:16,616
Did she give you
any kind of idea
460
00:24:16,664 --> 00:24:18,004
of where she was going
on the night
461
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,250
that she turned up missing?
462
00:24:20,293 --> 00:24:22,213
Well, she went
and visited her boyfriend,
463
00:24:22,253 --> 00:24:23,713
and she was
en route to home,
464
00:24:23,754 --> 00:24:26,054
and she had a final
the next morning,
465
00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:27,720
and she didn't show up
for the final.
466
00:24:27,758 --> 00:24:29,048
I talked to the professor
the next day,
467
00:24:29,093 --> 00:24:30,093
and he said
he was really surprised
468
00:24:30,136 --> 00:24:31,546
that she didn't show up.
469
00:24:33,681 --> 00:24:35,351
Of course, we had
no idea where George was.
470
00:24:35,391 --> 00:24:36,731
We didn't...
I don't know.
471
00:24:36,767 --> 00:24:39,477
In my mind, I just
knew she wasn't there,
472
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,020
but never in
a million years thought
473
00:24:42,064 --> 00:24:44,324
she wasn't coming back.
474
00:24:44,358 --> 00:24:46,398
Even though she's
never left before,
475
00:24:46,444 --> 00:24:48,784
she never spent the night,
she never did any of that.
476
00:24:48,821 --> 00:24:50,361
We always knew where she was.
477
00:24:50,406 --> 00:24:52,116
She was very careful.
478
00:24:58,706 --> 00:25:03,376
I pray
for her every night.
479
00:25:03,419 --> 00:25:07,759
Heck, she's... still
very much in my world.
480
00:25:07,798 --> 00:25:09,128
She really is.
481
00:25:13,221 --> 00:25:15,811
When Georgann
Hawkins disappeared
482
00:25:15,848 --> 00:25:17,768
from the University
of Washington,
483
00:25:17,808 --> 00:25:20,848
immediately I thought
it was the same guy,
484
00:25:20,895 --> 00:25:24,765
because he was so...
surreptitious.
485
00:25:24,815 --> 00:25:26,435
He was so sneaky.
486
00:25:26,484 --> 00:25:28,494
He just knew how to do it,
487
00:25:28,527 --> 00:25:31,067
how to make somebody disappear.
488
00:25:31,113 --> 00:25:32,953
It was just like, shoop!
489
00:25:32,990 --> 00:25:36,040
The earth swallowed them up,
and they were gone.
490
00:25:38,871 --> 00:25:41,871
I was getting
missing person notices
491
00:25:41,916 --> 00:25:45,086
from the Seattle Police
Department, King County,
492
00:25:45,127 --> 00:25:47,877
because I had friends
on both departments,
493
00:25:47,922 --> 00:25:49,922
as well as my father's friends
494
00:25:49,966 --> 00:25:52,886
that were helping
on the investigation.
495
00:25:52,927 --> 00:25:55,887
So I was assigned
the missing girls case
496
00:25:55,930 --> 00:25:59,430
because I had the most access
of any of the officers.
497
00:26:02,353 --> 00:26:03,983
They were
popping up,
498
00:26:04,021 --> 00:26:05,561
and I knew there
had to be a connection
499
00:26:05,606 --> 00:26:10,356
because they all happened
on a college/university campus,
500
00:26:10,403 --> 00:26:12,703
and they were
all the same age,
501
00:26:12,738 --> 00:26:15,368
and they were all within a
couple of months of each other.
502
00:27:16,719 --> 00:27:22,179
My theory was that
there was a nice-looking man
503
00:27:22,224 --> 00:27:25,524
that was abducting
these girls,
504
00:27:25,561 --> 00:27:28,441
and I think that
they're being murdered.
505
00:27:36,238 --> 00:27:39,078
And with
the highway system
506
00:27:39,116 --> 00:27:41,366
that had been developed,
at that time,
507
00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:44,960
he could make it
from one place to another.
508
00:27:47,291 --> 00:27:49,671
What is needed
is one overall master plan
509
00:27:49,710 --> 00:27:51,550
for our roads
and highways.
510
00:27:51,587 --> 00:27:53,707
In this plan, there will
be no intersections;
511
00:27:53,756 --> 00:27:55,416
access will be controlled.
512
00:27:55,466 --> 00:27:58,506
It will really united
all of our United States.
513
00:27:58,552 --> 00:28:00,392
When the interstates
finally came to Seattle,
514
00:28:00,429 --> 00:28:02,259
it was a real game-changer.
515
00:28:02,306 --> 00:28:05,476
They allowed people
to go farther, faster,
516
00:28:05,518 --> 00:28:09,398
and in a sense, more anonymously
than in the past.
517
00:28:09,438 --> 00:28:12,188
It was giving you
high-speed access
518
00:28:12,233 --> 00:28:17,413
to very rural
and wilderness areas.
519
00:28:21,075 --> 00:28:22,905
It didn't take very long
520
00:28:22,952 --> 00:28:24,452
for the dream of
the interstates,
521
00:28:24,495 --> 00:28:26,785
the dream of social mobility,
522
00:28:26,831 --> 00:28:30,711
to start morphing into
a kind of nightmare.
523
00:28:33,129 --> 00:28:35,759
If you look
at a map of the region
524
00:28:35,798 --> 00:28:38,378
where women were going missing,
525
00:28:38,426 --> 00:28:40,136
it's pretty clear
526
00:28:40,177 --> 00:28:43,927
that the killer was
using the highways
527
00:28:43,973 --> 00:28:47,143
in order to find victims.
528
00:28:49,979 --> 00:28:52,149
Most people
in Seattle had the thought
529
00:28:52,189 --> 00:28:56,899
that Lynda Healy's case
was the beginning of something.
530
00:28:56,944 --> 00:28:59,574
When Georgann Hawkins
went missing
531
00:28:59,613 --> 00:29:04,583
from just blocks away
from where Lynda went missing...
532
00:29:04,618 --> 00:29:07,748
Once Georgann disappeared,
533
00:29:07,788 --> 00:29:10,538
women became unnerved.
534
00:29:10,583 --> 00:29:13,543
It was a palpable nervousness.
535
00:29:13,586 --> 00:29:16,876
The attention of the media
of course impacted that,
536
00:29:16,922 --> 00:29:20,432
because it was starting
to be on the news every day.
537
00:29:23,846 --> 00:29:25,216
All of
the missing college girls
538
00:29:25,264 --> 00:29:28,104
were white females,
18-21 years of age.
539
00:29:29,351 --> 00:29:31,151
Actually,
the president was
540
00:29:31,187 --> 00:29:34,227
intentionally misleading
not only the American people,
541
00:29:34,273 --> 00:29:36,283
but the congress as well.
542
00:29:36,317 --> 00:29:38,147
At work, we had
the radio on all day long
543
00:29:38,194 --> 00:29:41,284
because people were listening
to the Watergate hearings.
544
00:29:41,322 --> 00:29:43,782
It just seemed
to go on forever,
545
00:29:43,824 --> 00:29:46,164
but the reason I was listening
was that they would break in
546
00:29:46,202 --> 00:29:49,712
with bulletins about
these abductions.
547
00:29:49,747 --> 00:29:51,247
We caution
all young ladies
548
00:29:51,290 --> 00:29:53,750
that they do not leave
with a stranger.
549
00:29:53,792 --> 00:29:55,342
All the women
were scared.
550
00:29:55,377 --> 00:29:57,707
All young women were--
it was on our minds.
551
00:29:57,755 --> 00:29:59,165
We just want
to caution the young women
552
00:29:59,215 --> 00:30:00,795
of our community.
553
00:30:00,841 --> 00:30:03,721
I remember
just feeling sick.
554
00:30:03,761 --> 00:30:05,511
What I was hungry to hear
was that somebody had been
555
00:30:05,554 --> 00:30:08,524
arrested for it, so I
could stop thinking about it.
556
00:30:15,648 --> 00:30:17,068
There was
a real pattern.
557
00:30:17,107 --> 00:30:19,817
The women that had been
abducted all had long hair,
558
00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:21,240
as did I.
559
00:30:21,278 --> 00:30:24,698
And I mean, I think I was older
than the college students,
560
00:30:24,740 --> 00:30:28,660
and so I didn't really
fit the profile,
561
00:30:28,702 --> 00:30:32,252
but still had the long hair
parted in the middle,
562
00:30:32,289 --> 00:30:35,379
and so I was scared to death.
Most women were.
563
00:30:35,417 --> 00:30:40,257
And I think people that fit
a profile felt extra scared.
564
00:30:40,297 --> 00:30:42,677
We were
stopped in our tracks.
565
00:30:42,716 --> 00:30:45,546
Everything changed,
overnight.
566
00:30:45,594 --> 00:30:49,144
As time marched on, we saw
that this was being duplicated
567
00:30:49,181 --> 00:30:52,851
multiple times,
and it was frightening.
568
00:30:52,893 --> 00:30:55,853
We didn't know that there were
predators like that out there.
569
00:30:55,896 --> 00:30:59,566
We had no idea.
We had no idea.
570
00:30:59,608 --> 00:31:00,938
No idea.
571
00:31:00,985 --> 00:31:03,195
I mean, it just
stopped us in our tracks.
572
00:31:03,237 --> 00:31:06,617
It was like
our fairytale world
573
00:31:06,657 --> 00:31:08,947
had stopped for a moment.
574
00:31:19,712 --> 00:31:21,632
In these last five cases,
575
00:31:21,672 --> 00:31:24,092
they just vanished
for no apparent reason,
576
00:31:24,133 --> 00:31:27,683
and we feel that we haven't come
to the end of our line here,
577
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,850
that there's
a good possibility
578
00:31:29,888 --> 00:31:31,768
that this could happen again.
579
00:31:31,807 --> 00:31:35,097
It was very eerily close
to the bone for all of us,
580
00:31:35,144 --> 00:31:37,774
and in personal,
intimate ways.
581
00:31:37,813 --> 00:31:40,363
Everybody knew somebody
who knew one of the victims.
582
00:31:40,399 --> 00:31:43,029
My wife went to school
with Lynda Healy,
583
00:31:43,068 --> 00:31:46,238
and if you lived here
at the time, as I did,
584
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,240
people dropped out of colleges,
they went back home.
585
00:31:49,283 --> 00:31:52,583
It was a real reversal,
in some ways, for young women
586
00:31:52,620 --> 00:31:55,960
who were feeling
more and more empowered.
587
00:31:55,998 --> 00:31:59,128
These girls
were all becoming educated.
588
00:31:59,168 --> 00:32:01,588
They were becoming
powerful young women
589
00:32:01,629 --> 00:32:03,669
and getting to the point
with an education
590
00:32:03,714 --> 00:32:07,434
that they could make
a difference in the world.
591
00:32:07,468 --> 00:32:09,968
You're starting to feel
like you can do anything,
592
00:32:10,012 --> 00:32:11,682
and all of a sudden,
593
00:32:11,722 --> 00:32:16,232
you get walloped
594
00:32:16,268 --> 00:32:19,898
by this sense
of helplessness.
595
00:32:19,938 --> 00:32:23,108
The attendance
in my class tripled.
596
00:32:23,150 --> 00:32:26,780
I was teaching one class
three times a week--
597
00:32:26,820 --> 00:32:29,620
I ended up teaching
three times a day,
598
00:32:29,657 --> 00:32:32,237
five days a week,
and two on Saturday,
599
00:32:32,284 --> 00:32:34,584
until there were
so many classes
600
00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:38,170
I couldn't teach them all.
601
00:32:38,207 --> 00:32:39,537
The first
couple of years,
602
00:32:39,583 --> 00:32:41,883
things were going
really splendidly,
603
00:32:41,919 --> 00:32:44,379
but he wasn't ready to commit.
604
00:32:44,421 --> 00:32:46,301
Ted didn't want
to get married,
605
00:32:46,340 --> 00:32:47,880
even though I was
bugging him all the time
606
00:32:47,925 --> 00:32:49,545
to commit to me.
607
00:32:49,593 --> 00:32:52,263
Every time it started
to get weird with Ted,
608
00:32:52,304 --> 00:32:55,104
I convinced myself
that the problem was me.
609
00:32:55,140 --> 00:32:58,480
I think it had a lot
to do with self-esteem.
610
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:03,019
So I was really perplexed
about what was going on.
611
00:33:03,065 --> 00:33:04,355
Things were
just plain weird
612
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:05,650
because he was
gonna be moving away
613
00:33:05,693 --> 00:33:07,113
at the end of the summer,
614
00:33:07,152 --> 00:33:10,112
and he had applied to law school
at the University of Utah,
615
00:33:10,155 --> 00:33:12,065
and got accepted,
616
00:33:12,116 --> 00:33:14,196
and it was really unclear
about whether we were
617
00:33:14,243 --> 00:33:16,293
gonna move together or not.
618
00:33:16,328 --> 00:33:18,868
When I would say, "What
about me coming with you?"
619
00:33:18,914 --> 00:33:21,004
He'd say, "Well, you
can come if you want."
620
00:33:21,041 --> 00:33:23,711
And it was like
so non-enthusiastic
621
00:33:23,752 --> 00:33:25,922
that I thought,
"I don't want to."
622
00:33:28,757 --> 00:33:30,427
But, I mean,
I fell in love with him
623
00:33:30,467 --> 00:33:33,257
from day one.
624
00:33:33,303 --> 00:33:35,143
We had several good years
625
00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:39,020
where it was just really fun
and intense and wonderful,
626
00:33:39,059 --> 00:33:42,519
and I think, kind of like almost
any addiction or any drug,
627
00:33:42,563 --> 00:33:45,983
you keep thinking of
the first part of something,
628
00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:48,784
and you think you can
get back to that state,
629
00:33:48,819 --> 00:33:50,739
whereas things
started to change,
630
00:33:50,779 --> 00:33:53,119
but I still was hopeful
that we would be in love
631
00:33:53,157 --> 00:33:57,157
like we were
in the beginning.
632
00:33:57,202 --> 00:34:00,712
I was sad
that we were losing him,
633
00:34:00,748 --> 00:34:02,208
because I felt that we were.
634
00:34:02,249 --> 00:34:03,709
I mean, I felt that
their relationship
635
00:34:03,751 --> 00:34:05,791
had not been as close,
636
00:34:05,836 --> 00:34:07,546
and I felt that
our relationship
637
00:34:07,588 --> 00:34:13,388
had taken this
really horrid turn.
638
00:34:17,389 --> 00:34:21,389
I remember we were
playing hide 'n go seek,
639
00:34:21,435 --> 00:34:23,395
is how this started.
640
00:34:23,437 --> 00:34:25,687
He had hid under a blanket,
641
00:34:25,731 --> 00:34:28,611
and I came out
to the living room,
642
00:34:28,650 --> 00:34:30,150
and I pulled
the blanket off him,
643
00:34:30,194 --> 00:34:31,154
and he's naked.
644
00:34:31,195 --> 00:34:34,525
And I say, in shock,
"You're naked,"
645
00:34:34,573 --> 00:34:38,953
and he says, "Well, yeah, that's
because I can turn invisible,
646
00:34:38,994 --> 00:34:43,754
"but my clothes can't, and I
didn't want you to see me."
647
00:34:43,791 --> 00:34:45,251
And I'm chewing on that,
648
00:34:45,292 --> 00:34:48,092
but he's running back to the
place you touch not to be it,
649
00:34:48,128 --> 00:34:49,668
and I have to kind of
just give up
650
00:34:49,713 --> 00:34:51,053
because I don't
want to be it,
651
00:34:51,089 --> 00:34:53,049
and I'm running,
and I'm thinking,
652
00:34:53,091 --> 00:34:56,851
and it just devolved
from there.
653
00:34:59,139 --> 00:35:01,559
But my charitable
child explanation
654
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,230
I wanted to give him
655
00:35:03,268 --> 00:35:06,268
was that he got carried away
with the fun of the game.
656
00:35:06,313 --> 00:35:08,773
That he always broke rules
in these various ways,
657
00:35:08,816 --> 00:35:10,276
and that this was
just another way
658
00:35:10,317 --> 00:35:15,777
he just wasn't really
like other grownups.
659
00:35:15,823 --> 00:35:18,123
Did you
tell your mom?
660
00:35:18,158 --> 00:35:19,538
No.
661
00:35:19,576 --> 00:35:24,246
It wasn't until many years
later that I told her.
662
00:35:24,289 --> 00:35:28,789
I didn't want Ted
to get in trouble.
663
00:35:28,836 --> 00:35:31,756
I didn't want him
to have to go away.
664
00:35:31,797 --> 00:35:35,177
I didn't want him
to be banished,
665
00:35:35,217 --> 00:35:39,297
which I was sure that
he would have been.
666
00:35:41,014 --> 00:35:43,934
And I didn't want
to see my mom hurt.
667
00:35:59,491 --> 00:36:02,161
Many times we'd
gone over to the Yakima River,
668
00:36:02,202 --> 00:36:04,622
and floated down the river,
669
00:36:04,663 --> 00:36:08,383
so we were doing it again
on a warm, sunny day.
670
00:36:08,417 --> 00:36:09,707
So we were just
floating along.
671
00:36:09,751 --> 00:36:12,671
It was just
beautiful, serene.
672
00:36:12,713 --> 00:36:17,263
And I was sitting
on the edge of the raft,
673
00:36:17,301 --> 00:36:19,301
and without warning,
he just popped up
674
00:36:19,344 --> 00:36:22,644
and pushed me by the shoulders,
pushed me off the raft.
675
00:36:27,185 --> 00:36:29,435
I was breathless
676
00:36:29,479 --> 00:36:32,319
because it was so cold,
and it was so unexpected.
677
00:36:32,357 --> 00:36:33,977
I was so shocked
that he did that,
678
00:36:34,026 --> 00:36:37,106
I just, fortunately, grabbed
a rope that was hanging loose
679
00:36:37,154 --> 00:36:40,164
on the raft, so that he
didn't float away from me.
680
00:36:40,198 --> 00:36:43,698
And when I looked at him,
he looked like just vacant.
681
00:36:43,744 --> 00:36:46,624
It was the strangest look,
like he was looking through me.
682
00:36:46,663 --> 00:36:49,753
Didn't reach out
to help me back in.
683
00:36:49,791 --> 00:36:54,131
It was like he was
far, far away in his head.
684
00:36:54,171 --> 00:36:56,971
It was really,
really disturbing.
685
00:37:14,274 --> 00:37:16,534
Lake Sammamish was,
up into the 60s,
686
00:37:16,568 --> 00:37:20,568
it was a pretty kind of
remote, idyllic place.
687
00:37:20,614 --> 00:37:24,204
It had a kind of hokey,
charming, old quality to it.
688
00:37:24,242 --> 00:37:28,252
But on that day,
July 14th,
689
00:37:28,288 --> 00:37:31,958
anybody who knows Seattle knows
that when the sun is shining,
690
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,920
and it's a beautiful day,
people want to be outside.
691
00:37:34,962 --> 00:37:36,382
And they came
in droves that day.
692
00:37:36,421 --> 00:37:38,551
There were something like
40,000 people there that day.
693
00:37:52,145 --> 00:37:54,555
I notice a guy
that was walking down the beach,
694
00:37:54,606 --> 00:37:58,026
a young man, probably
in his mid to late 20s.
695
00:37:58,068 --> 00:38:01,198
He was wearing white shorts,
696
00:38:01,238 --> 00:38:02,658
and it had a red stripe,
697
00:38:02,698 --> 00:38:04,738
which immediately
caught my eye.
698
00:38:04,783 --> 00:38:06,583
When he got closer, of course,
then I noticed he had
699
00:38:06,618 --> 00:38:11,078
really curly hair,
and his left arm was in a sling.
700
00:38:11,123 --> 00:38:13,463
It piqued my interest
because every time
701
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:15,880
he approached any
particular woman,
702
00:38:15,919 --> 00:38:17,839
or group of
two or three women,
703
00:38:17,879 --> 00:38:20,259
he was getting turned down,
704
00:38:20,298 --> 00:38:23,548
and I just kept watching him,
and he eventually ended up
705
00:38:23,593 --> 00:38:26,563
being literally
right in front of me,
706
00:38:26,596 --> 00:38:28,636
and approached a young girl.
707
00:38:33,687 --> 00:38:37,267
She was a young,
attractive, blond girl,
708
00:38:37,315 --> 00:38:40,935
and he asked her words
to the effect,
709
00:38:40,986 --> 00:38:43,156
"I need some help."
710
00:38:46,616 --> 00:38:49,236
She's saying, "I just
got here," kind of a thing,
711
00:38:49,286 --> 00:38:52,786
so obviously, going through
her mind is, you know,
712
00:38:52,831 --> 00:38:54,621
"I'd like to help you out,
but, you know,
713
00:38:54,666 --> 00:38:56,286
"I'm here to relax."
714
00:38:56,334 --> 00:38:58,594
He kept on and on and on,
715
00:38:58,628 --> 00:39:01,718
and he talks her into
whatever he talked her into.
716
00:39:01,757 --> 00:39:04,677
He said something
about a catamaran,
717
00:39:04,718 --> 00:39:08,258
and ultimately,
she gets up, reluctantly,
718
00:39:08,305 --> 00:39:10,215
because she's like head down,
719
00:39:10,265 --> 00:39:12,635
and I can't believe
I'm doing this,
720
00:39:12,684 --> 00:39:16,524
and then started
walking back past me.
721
00:39:16,563 --> 00:39:19,863
She had this frown
on her face like, you know,
722
00:39:19,900 --> 00:39:21,860
I'm helping this guy
when I should be just,
723
00:39:21,902 --> 00:39:24,282
you know, enjoying
myself on the beach.
724
00:39:24,321 --> 00:39:26,911
And the end result is
she's no longer with us
725
00:39:26,948 --> 00:39:29,868
because of her
being a nice person.
726
00:39:41,713 --> 00:39:44,513
Later on that day,
Denise Naslund,
727
00:39:44,549 --> 00:39:46,339
she had just gone
to the bathroom,
728
00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:50,184
and she had her boyfriend there,
along with other people,
729
00:39:50,222 --> 00:39:52,222
and why she would just
disappear like this,
730
00:39:52,265 --> 00:39:54,515
and not show up,
something was wrong.
731
00:40:13,245 --> 00:40:15,495
I was in the shower
when he called me.
732
00:40:15,539 --> 00:40:18,829
It was the weekend
after we'd gone rafting,
733
00:40:18,875 --> 00:40:21,455
and so I was mad at him
for what he did,
734
00:40:21,503 --> 00:40:23,803
although we were
starting to talk again,
735
00:40:23,839 --> 00:40:26,339
and he was all
chipper sounding,
736
00:40:26,383 --> 00:40:28,593
and he said, "Do you want
to go eat something?"
737
00:40:28,635 --> 00:40:30,545
And I said, "Okay."
738
00:40:30,595 --> 00:40:31,805
I thought it was kind of odd
739
00:40:31,847 --> 00:40:34,137
because we still weren't
getting along really well.
740
00:40:34,182 --> 00:40:36,142
He came right over,
and I got dressed,
741
00:40:36,184 --> 00:40:39,774
and we went to this bowling
alley and ate hamburgers.
742
00:40:39,813 --> 00:40:41,733
That's when I noticed
that his eyes
743
00:40:41,773 --> 00:40:44,153
were really close together,
you know?
744
00:40:44,192 --> 00:40:46,532
His eyes, the weekend before,
745
00:40:46,570 --> 00:40:48,320
had been really weird,
746
00:40:48,363 --> 00:40:50,243
and then they were
really weird again.
747
00:40:50,282 --> 00:40:53,702
And of course I didn't
think anything of it.
748
00:40:53,743 --> 00:40:55,333
Then he wanted to
go home and sleep
749
00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:56,830
because he was feeling sick,
750
00:40:56,872 --> 00:40:59,332
and in hindsight, I always
thought that was really odd.
751
00:41:04,212 --> 00:41:07,422
People were just
shocked that there could be
752
00:41:07,465 --> 00:41:10,715
two abductions within
hours of each other,
753
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,550
from a crowded space.
754
00:41:12,596 --> 00:41:14,306
What happened here?
755
00:41:19,603 --> 00:41:21,153
As with all
searches of this kind,
756
00:41:21,188 --> 00:41:22,978
the police and the searchers
have to contend
757
00:41:23,023 --> 00:41:25,403
with the grim idea that there
might have been foul play.
758
00:41:25,442 --> 00:41:27,242
But there really
are no clues,
759
00:41:27,277 --> 00:41:31,027
no theories as to the
disappearance of the two girls.
760
00:41:31,072 --> 00:41:33,162
We recognize
the tremendous job
761
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,330
that all of the police
officials have been doing
762
00:41:36,369 --> 00:41:39,159
in this area,
the search and rescue units.
763
00:41:39,206 --> 00:41:42,036
Everyone has just
been tremendous.
764
00:41:42,083 --> 00:41:47,423
But if the addition of
individuals and private groups,
765
00:41:47,464 --> 00:41:50,304
the information that
they might be able to get
766
00:41:50,342 --> 00:41:52,142
that would be helpful,
767
00:41:52,177 --> 00:41:54,177
can help with the
return of our daughter,
768
00:41:54,221 --> 00:41:56,681
we would do anything
to facilitate that.
769
00:41:56,723 --> 00:41:59,353
She's a beautiful,
wonderful girl.
770
00:42:02,687 --> 00:42:04,647
So far,
we've gotten a few leads,
771
00:42:04,689 --> 00:42:06,229
and a few volunteers
who apparently
772
00:42:06,274 --> 00:42:08,284
have seen these girls
have come forward.
773
00:42:08,318 --> 00:42:11,148
There were a potential
40,000 witnesses to this,
774
00:42:11,196 --> 00:42:13,106
and many of them saw
or overheard
775
00:42:13,156 --> 00:42:14,616
or were approached themselves.
776
00:42:14,658 --> 00:42:16,198
He would approach
someone and say,
777
00:42:16,243 --> 00:42:18,333
"Hi, my name is Ted."
778
00:42:20,622 --> 00:42:22,172
The individual
had been overheard saying
779
00:42:22,207 --> 00:42:23,417
his name was Ted,
780
00:42:23,458 --> 00:42:27,208
so all of the sudden,
our suspect had a nickname.
781
00:42:30,048 --> 00:42:32,008
After Lake Sammamish,
782
00:42:32,050 --> 00:42:35,180
I went to the campus newspaper
783
00:42:35,220 --> 00:42:38,310
and took in
the sketches of Ted,
784
00:42:38,348 --> 00:42:41,518
and they did a full
page of his face,
785
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:43,099
said, "Have you seen this man?"
786
00:42:43,144 --> 00:42:45,654
And he may have
been in Ellensburg
787
00:42:45,689 --> 00:42:50,609
the day or maybe the day after
that that was in the newspaper.
788
00:42:50,652 --> 00:42:53,112
A young woman
ran into my office,
789
00:42:53,154 --> 00:42:55,204
and was pounding
on the newspaper,
790
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:57,830
"I've seen him, I've seen him,
I've seen him."
791
00:42:57,867 --> 00:43:00,537
And then she tells me
there's another young woman.
792
00:43:00,578 --> 00:43:03,578
It was the same day that
Susan Rancourt disappeared
793
00:43:03,623 --> 00:43:05,383
from the library.
794
00:43:05,417 --> 00:43:07,747
She said that she was
approached by a man
795
00:43:07,794 --> 00:43:09,504
that looked like the sketch,
796
00:43:09,546 --> 00:43:13,926
and that he had a bandage
on his arm, or a cast.
797
00:43:13,967 --> 00:43:16,967
They weren't coincidental.
They were planned.
798
00:43:17,012 --> 00:43:21,562
And that was the first time
that I had concrete evidence
799
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:25,479
that these were all related.
800
00:43:28,273 --> 00:43:29,733
I used to get
phone calls from the detectives
801
00:43:29,774 --> 00:43:31,114
about Georgann.
802
00:43:31,151 --> 00:43:35,111
And it was right after
the Lake Sammamish incidents,
803
00:43:35,155 --> 00:43:37,815
and once it came out
that they were missing,
804
00:43:37,866 --> 00:43:40,196
and they talked about
this cast thing
805
00:43:40,243 --> 00:43:42,203
and needing assistance,
806
00:43:42,245 --> 00:43:46,955
I just thought, "Wow,
I wonder if that was him."
807
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,590
The thing that got me is,
"Can you help me?"
808
00:43:49,627 --> 00:43:51,917
"I can't get this up there,
can you help me?"
809
00:43:51,963 --> 00:43:54,673
And that's exactly
what he said to me.
810
00:43:54,716 --> 00:43:57,256
I was brought in
to this case
811
00:43:57,302 --> 00:44:00,722
after the women went missing
at the state park
812
00:44:00,764 --> 00:44:03,774
because I was involved then
in a national project
813
00:44:03,808 --> 00:44:06,018
on rape and violence,
814
00:44:06,061 --> 00:44:09,021
and was asked, along with
another psychologist
815
00:44:09,064 --> 00:44:10,944
from the Seattle
Police Department,
816
00:44:10,982 --> 00:44:14,992
to do a profile
based on evidence
817
00:44:15,028 --> 00:44:17,528
we were looking at
at that point.
818
00:44:17,572 --> 00:44:19,872
I thought that
he was manipulative.
819
00:44:19,908 --> 00:44:21,078
I thought he was
from the middle,
820
00:44:21,117 --> 00:44:22,947
maybe even upper, class.
821
00:44:22,994 --> 00:44:27,464
I thought that most of his
world revolved around women,
822
00:44:27,499 --> 00:44:28,959
and he was after a type,
823
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,460
but the type is related more
to the inexperience, naivete,
824
00:44:33,505 --> 00:44:36,045
rather than the sexuality
or high probability
825
00:44:36,091 --> 00:44:38,641
of consensual
sexual intercourse.
826
00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:40,466
He wasn't looking
for consent.
827
00:44:40,512 --> 00:44:44,722
He was looking to overcome
and overpower these women.
828
00:44:47,143 --> 00:44:48,773
We believed
his name was Ted.
829
00:44:48,812 --> 00:44:50,562
The killer was Ted.
830
00:44:50,605 --> 00:44:54,395
But Ted was not
a common West Coast name.
831
00:44:54,442 --> 00:44:56,492
I had an intern at the time,
832
00:44:56,528 --> 00:44:58,488
we both agreed
we only knew one Ted,
833
00:44:58,530 --> 00:45:00,410
and that was Ted Bundy,
834
00:45:00,448 --> 00:45:03,078
and we just went right on
with our conversation.
835
00:45:03,118 --> 00:45:06,748
That was just
not even in our minds,
836
00:45:06,788 --> 00:45:08,118
not at all.
837
00:45:08,164 --> 00:45:10,504
Just not--
didn't twig to it.
838
00:45:10,542 --> 00:45:12,502
I'm still carrying
that around.
839
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,760
When I first saw
the police artist's sketch,
840
00:45:19,801 --> 00:45:23,811
that's when I said,
841
00:45:23,847 --> 00:45:25,267
"My god...
842
00:45:25,306 --> 00:45:28,846
"That looks like somebody
who was in my class.
843
00:45:28,893 --> 00:45:33,823
"It looks like him,
but it can't be him."
844
00:45:33,857 --> 00:45:37,067
And my first thought
was it was my duty,
845
00:45:37,110 --> 00:45:41,110
both to the authorities
and to him,
846
00:45:41,156 --> 00:45:43,696
to get it cleared up.
847
00:45:43,741 --> 00:45:47,201
I called the King County
Sheriff's Department
848
00:45:47,245 --> 00:45:49,575
because there was
a hotline set up,
849
00:45:49,622 --> 00:45:52,712
and they were interested
in the fact that it had been
850
00:45:52,750 --> 00:45:55,090
an abnormal psych course,
851
00:45:55,128 --> 00:45:58,048
and they wanted
to know more about
852
00:45:58,089 --> 00:45:59,339
his behaviour in the course,
853
00:45:59,382 --> 00:46:02,682
and whether he showed
any abnormal behavior.
854
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,049
And I said,
"No."
855
00:46:05,096 --> 00:46:08,516
And they said, "Well,
did he act really strange?"
856
00:46:08,558 --> 00:46:12,348
And I said,
"No, not at all."
857
00:46:12,395 --> 00:46:15,185
There was nothing,
nothing that I could see.
858
00:46:17,233 --> 00:46:21,363
The morning when that
front page composite came out,
859
00:46:21,404 --> 00:46:25,074
the foreman
showed up at work,
860
00:46:25,116 --> 00:46:26,526
and he showed me,
861
00:46:26,576 --> 00:46:28,496
and I scrutinized
that thing,
862
00:46:28,536 --> 00:46:30,576
and looked from
different angles.
863
00:46:30,622 --> 00:46:33,752
I couldn't see
anybody that I knew.
864
00:46:33,791 --> 00:46:35,541
And then about
20 minutes later,
865
00:46:35,585 --> 00:46:38,245
he walked over to Liz,
866
00:46:38,296 --> 00:46:41,126
and he dropped that paper
in front of her.
867
00:46:41,174 --> 00:46:44,094
And Liz turned white.
868
00:46:44,135 --> 00:46:47,675
The blood just drained
right out of her face.
869
00:46:47,722 --> 00:46:49,682
And he'd underlined
the name "Ted,"
870
00:46:49,724 --> 00:46:53,064
and said, "Does this look
like somebody you know?"
871
00:46:53,102 --> 00:46:56,442
And... it did.
872
00:46:56,481 --> 00:47:00,281
It looked like my Ted.
873
00:47:00,318 --> 00:47:02,988
And I just tried
to brush it off,
874
00:47:03,029 --> 00:47:05,529
but I was really
gripped by fear.
875
00:47:05,573 --> 00:47:07,833
Like, there's
something wrong here.
876
00:47:07,867 --> 00:47:09,907
I looked at it
over and over and over again,
877
00:47:09,953 --> 00:47:11,043
and when I got home,
878
00:47:11,079 --> 00:47:12,999
I started going through
my photo albums,
879
00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:16,169
and pulled out a picture of Ted
that looked very similar.
880
00:47:16,209 --> 00:47:18,669
Like, the jawline
was the same.
881
00:47:18,711 --> 00:47:22,261
And I took the picture
and went down to my friend
882
00:47:22,298 --> 00:47:24,928
and showed her, and we
both were kind of stunned
883
00:47:24,968 --> 00:47:27,468
by how much it
looked like Ted.
884
00:47:31,641 --> 00:47:33,311
She said to me,
"You don't go with somebody
885
00:47:33,351 --> 00:47:36,061
"for four years and not
know what they're about.
886
00:47:36,104 --> 00:47:39,614
"How could you
even think that?"
887
00:47:39,649 --> 00:47:41,529
But there are all
these coincidences.
888
00:47:41,568 --> 00:47:43,488
Like, I couldn't let it go.
889
00:47:45,738 --> 00:47:47,118
I also
read in the paper
890
00:47:47,156 --> 00:47:51,446
that some witnesses from the
abduction of Georgann Hawkins
891
00:47:51,494 --> 00:47:56,084
had encountered
a man with crutches.
892
00:47:56,124 --> 00:47:57,384
I was so shocked.
893
00:47:57,417 --> 00:47:59,667
I'd seen crutches
in Ted's room.
894
00:47:59,711 --> 00:48:01,881
And so it's like,
"No."
895
00:48:04,340 --> 00:48:06,180
I was,
moment by moment,
896
00:48:06,217 --> 00:48:08,387
having my mind
switch around.
897
00:48:08,428 --> 00:48:11,098
Like, could he be
doing these things?
898
00:48:11,139 --> 00:48:12,769
It made no sense
whatsoever.
898
00:48:13,305 --> 00:49:13,356
69158
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