Original subtitles

...of "Ben hur," you mean?

Granted that it's too easy and a cliche

to connect your work with your life

in such a direct manner.

Let me take the example of "Chinatown."

"Chinatown" is really a movie

about justice not winning.

Is that what you had come to believe?

No, not at all.

But if you want your film to serve any purpose,

if you want to show injustice

or corruption of Los Angeles in that period,

you have to show that injustice somehow won

and leave them

with a feeling of frustration.

I hope you don't mind if I just reach across here

and grab a couple of these nuts.

Me too.

Anyway, that's... that's fiction.

And I think this probably may be still

in the land of fiction, edging toward fact.

When they...

When the newspapers and the magazines and the books

talk about you and little girls, all right,

is there anything in it?

Well, I like young women, let's put it this way.

I think most of men do, actually.

Yeah, but the question turns on how young, doesn't it?

Well, yes. Here you've come

to a concrete case

for which I have been behind bars.

That's what you want to talk about.

But what exactly

would you like me to tell you?

Mr. Polanski!

A question here, Mr. Polanski!

The Los Angeles police department

today announced the arrest of Raymond polanski

as a result of a complaint

filed by the mother of a 13-year-old female.

It was a year of anxiety,

a year of drama for me,

and I thought that was simply enough.

Enough is enough.

And that was my decision to leave.

You ran away, Roman.

You ran away.

Well, I, as you say, ran away,

because I think

that I was very unfortunate

to have a judge

who misused justice.

And he was playing with me

for the period of a year.

I think that I was some kind of mouse

with which

some abominable cat

begins a sport.

Get that out of our face.

Please please.

We're trying to get through.

People were not in the habit

of calling me at 2:00 in the morning.

So I was sleeping.

I picked up the phone

and they said, "Roman's been arrested."

And I said, "what for?"

And they said, "rape."

I said...

I just could not... It just made no sense.

I mean, this is somebody

who could not be a rapist, you know?

I mean, it's somebody I know

really really well.

- I was working west L.A. - homicide

and I also handled sex crimes.

And I came in to work

and I had a crime report on my desk

of a rape that had been reported.

And Roman polanski was the named suspect in it.

After I received the report I started the follow-up.

I went to interview the victim and her mother.

I did an extensive interview with them,

made sure that any physical evidence

would have been recovered from her that she had,

and then I went

and talked to the district attorney's office.

Vannatter came into the office

and we sat down and he ran the case by me.

He showed me the incident report, a crime report

taken by a couple of patrol officers,

which is a narrative of the facts and stuff.

Time was kind of of the essence,

so we got the search warrant.

It was for two locations...

It was for Jack Nicholson's house

where the crime occurred

and also for polanski's suite

on the second floor of the Beverly Wilshire hotel.

Me and my partner,

along with a narcotics officer,

proceeded with the search warrant to the hotel.

We were walking in and he was walking out

with a group of people, obviously going out for the evening.

And I told Phil, I said, "there he is."

And we stopped

because he would have walked right on by us.

So we said, "Mr. Polanski, l.A.P.D. We have to talk."

And he came out and he says, "is this is gonna be

more than a few minutes? If it is, I'll let my people go."

We said, "yes, it's going to be more than a few minutes."

We proceeded up to his room and completed the search warrant,

which... we did find the camera equipment,

the film that we ultimately had developed.

And it did show nude pictures of the victim.

Totally nude?

Well, she was in a spa.

You could see the upper portion of her body.

You couldn't see her whole body

because she was in the water.

But they were nude pictures.

Polanski was nervous. He was upset.

And he is one of those people that just talk.

And I suspect

he figures, "well, if I talk and talk

I can probably talk my way out of this thing."

He was like on a hyper high.

And he's constantly talking,

constantly fidgeting.

And he didn't perceive having intercourse

with a 13-year-old girl as against the law.

That was not in his culture.

You know, "so what?" Type thing.

He didn't realize, I guess,

the laws of our country

as compared to other countries.

I'm not so sure that Mr. Polanski was aware

of what being arrested in America meant.

I know it's a very large piece of news for all of you.

It's a lot of sensational stuff.

But try to go beyond it and understand my position.

It's not the best type of publicity,

not something I desire.

I have not much to tell you except that I'm innocent.

When the case arrived here

there was an absolute mob of publicity...

The associated press, u.P.I.,

"New York times," "Los Angeles times,"

celebrity mags, German reporters,

French reporters, British reporters.

I had never seen a media feeding frenzy before

and this courtroom embodied it.

You couldn't meet anybody,

whether he was known or not known at all

who didn't have an opinion about this case.

And it was one of the biggest cases.

I didn't work for weeks and months

on anything else but this case.

As the case progressed, I was struck...

You know, how could the same man be

two different things to two different sets of press?

The European reporters looked on polanski

as this tragic, brilliant historic figure.

Here was this man

who had survived the holocaust,

who had survived the gassing of his mother

and then had come here

and developed his own voice,

had maintained his integrity

against the power of the Hollywood machine.

And the American press tended to look at him

as this sort of malignant twisted dwarf

with this dark vision.

Roman was the perfect villain for them.

He was a foreigner. He had a thick accent.

He made lots of money in the movie business.

He was short. He was perfect.

In California at that time,

had he not been who he was...

In other words, a famous

controversial director

with the legacy

of his wife's murder behind him,

the whole thing would have been

completely different.

Roman polanski is 32.

He has just completed his fourth feature film,

"the vampire killers,"

set in the snow-covered mountains of transylvania.

He both directs

and plays one of the leading parts.

Hold it, boys.

Sharon, Sharon.

Looking at him, not at me.

Okay? Yeah.

You know where.

Yeah.

Roman polanski was born in France

of Polish parents. They left there when he was three

and went to live in Poland.

I don't know, I think I'm a nomad, you know?

But I...

I'm really strongly attached

to Polish background. I've grown up in Poland.

My mother was killed by Germans very soon

and my father was taken to the concentration camp

after two years of war. And then I was by myself.

One of the first films I've seen

was "snow white," you know?

And I think it influenced me

enormously forever.

And as you see, it's an enormous

influence in my work

like "repulsion" and "cul-de-sac."

I always wanted to be a director.

I knew I wanted to make movies.

I knew I wanted to be a part of it.

I knew I wanted to create this.

An American producer of Polish origin

suggested that I come to London

and make a film there.

London was fabulous.

You cannot imagine what it meant

for someone who lived

in the grey, drab

communist reality.

It was a very civilized way of living,

rooms always full of friendly faces.

You saw your friends every day

and there were lots of them...

Life without limits.

I got a phone call from a friend of ours,

a mutual friend who was a film producer.

And he said, "I've got this friend"

who's coming to London

and he doesn't speak any English.

"Can you take care of him?"

I said, "sure, send him round."

Roman was totally exceptional.

I was really drawn to him, and so was everybody else.

Already an established film director...

No one in London had heard of him.

Few people had seen his films.

Yes yes yes.

Go, go again.

That was funny.

From coming as a complete unknown,

I would say within six months

everybody knew him.

He was a charismatic fellow.

There are very few directors

who have Roman's personality

and also his appetite for life...

His appetite for life.

They met in London

because of a film that he made

called "the dance of the vampires."

She was a remarkable person...

Beautiful, gentle,

unsophisticated

in the best sense of the word,

really a genuine human being.

They were great together

and of course it created this fantastic love affair.

And it truly was a love affair.

Look, it all started so long ago.

My real problems started then,

with the murder of Sharon Tate.

I was all right with the press

before that.

They... they wouldn't let it go.

So it's just the story that will never go.

- Pardon me? - Why did you want a gag order?

We didn't ask for a gag order.

Who did, Mr. Dalton?

No one asked for a gag order.

Then why did the judge bring it up at this stage?

Well, maybe the judge can answer that.

The topic of publicity was discussed

and certain measures were discussed

to try to control the publicity,

but no one asked for a gag order as such.

There was an hour-long discussion in the chambers.

Did that deal principally with publicity problems?

Yes, a great part of it did.

What do you see as the problems

with publicity right now?

Well, the problem with publicity is

there's been too much of it.

And of course for me to go on television

and complain about publicity is a little inconsistent.

Excuse me.

I've never spoken publicly

about this case before.

But if the story is to be told,

I want it to be told factually.

I know the facts. I was there.

Can you give us your reaction

to the delay of the start of the trial?

- My reaction to it? - Yeah.

Well, I'm pleased.

In what way?

Well, there's a good deal of work-up

that goes into any major case...

People have the right

to their own opinions about what happened,

but they don't have the right to their own facts.

The fact of polanski

leaving the country and so forth

seems to have eclipsed

the really important part of this case

about what actually happened to the system of justice.

I remain astounded

after all these years.

This case will never leave me.

Defense attorney Doug Dalton

had a very lincolnesque quality about him,

dignified,

not given to flamboyant gestures.

He doesn't raise his voice in the courtroom.

He maintains this calm demeanor.

And he was the master of negotiations.

The fact that Doug Dalton was the attorney

indicated to me that there would be

a negotiated plea arrived at

between the prosecution,

the defense and the judge.

Douglas Dalton was a first-class lawyer

but he was definitely matched

by Roger gunson.

The district attorney's office

put gunson on the case...

A 37-year-old,

very straight-thinking mormon.

We are concerned with protecting

the privacy of the girl...

The complaining witness in this case...

And it's my understanding that there have been

foreign reporters and investigators

who have attempted to contact her and have interviews...

Gunson was the model of rectitude.

He had that same kind of

handsome-schoolboy,

sparkling good looks as Robert redford.

The rumor in the district attorney's office was

that they picked gunson to handle the case

because he was a mormon

and because he was the only member of the d.A.'S office

who hadn't had sex with an underage girl.

I heard some jokes about why they gave it to me,

but I can't imagine those are accurate.

There were a lot of prosecutors

who had an interest in high-publicity cases.

Although I had had one very high publicity case,

I was not one that looked for them.

They were the perfect attorneys

to handle a case like this

where the evidence and the players

were sensational,

were dramatic, flamboyant.

So you want two attorneys

who kept an even keel.

They were in that regard

very strikingly different

from the judge in the case.

When the grand jury

came back with the indictment,

judge rittenband, who was very interested

in handling celebrity cases

obviously saw it

and realized that he wanted it

and went to the presiding judge

and said, "hey, I want this case."

He was of course the senior judge in Santa Monica,

which was the choice location for any judge

because that's where you get

a lot of these high-publicity cases.

Judge rittenband had handled

a Cary Grant paternity suit.

He had handled, well,

the Priscilla and Elvis divorce,

the Marlon Brando custody suit

that went on forever.

There were quite a few.

I spoke to judge rittenband

very frequently.

And he liked

being among the stars

but I don't think he was starstruck.

Rittenband loved the press,

always had comments for the press.

He wanted to shape

the way the press covered him.

Sitting up there on the bench,

he acted like a director,

a tyrannical director calling the shots,

telling people when to make their entrances,

what to say, where to position themselves.

Well, we misspoke ourselves, your honor.

There's obviously other basis for the motion.

Yes, we don't need that anymore.

There were a lot of similarities

between judge rittenband and Roman polanski.

Not too tall in stature.

He liked the ladies and he loved to dance.

He had his friends in the movie industry

which he'd see every day

at the hillcrest country club.

When I first met him

I was answering phones. And he used to say

"I'm going to hillcrest. I'm going to hillcrest."

And finally I stop and I says,

"what is going on at hillcrest?"

You know, "is your wife there?"

Because I didn't know if he was married or not.

And he said, "oh, I'm not married."

And I said, "oh, okay."

I was 20 years old.

He was 34 years older.

He was 54 when I met him.

And we became friends.

Oh, golly,

practically every evening he'd come here

and he'd sit over in that chair.

And he loved champagne.

So I'd get champagne by the case.

"Judge rittenband," I said,

"what would you at your age do with a girlfriend?"

He said, "I'd do the same thing that you did"

and probably better."

And I said, "tell me about it."

He said, "I got one that cooks"

and one that does the other things."

Rittenband was known as a hammer.

That means that he was a tough judge

and a tough sentencer.

If you didn't make a deal

and you didn't have the deal in place

when you went in there,

you were in trouble.

I don't remember any judge

that liked publicity like rittenband did.

He had his bailiff maintain a scrapbook

that went back many years

and if an article appeared anywhere

about something involving Lawrence j. Rittenband

it wound up in the scrapbook.

It was kept somewhere in the court,

I think in the bailiff's desk,

and on occasion

would come out... And be displayed.

Judge rittenband was receiving requests

from people all over the world,

from news agencies

wanting one of the seats in his courtroom.

He was soliciting reservations

for each one of these chairs.

So it was going to be a real circus.

If you gentlemen would just stand still,

Mr. Polanski will stay here

and you can get your shot.

Because another trial in the same courtroom

is taking much longer than expected,

the rape trial of Roman polanski

has been delayed until August 9th,

exactly eight years to the day

his late wife, actress Sharon Tate,

was brutally murdered.

At that time rape victims' names

didn't get reported in the press,

much less the names of minors

who were involved in sex cases.

But with the European press there,

her name would come out,

exposed in the press, her background exposed.

The fact that she had had a prior relationship,

that she had taken quaaludes before...

All of this would have gotten out

and would have forever haunted her.

Once we knew her name,

we knew where her school was,

we knew where her house was.

The French competition were after this girl.

They were hunting this girl.

It was awful.

Everybody knew at school.

People came to school with cameras

and things were being said and printed.

The worst part was,

no one believed me.

Everybody thought I was making it up.

It was so traumatic,

starting that night when my mom called the police.

And the police come over and they take you to the hospital,

then they take you to the police station.

And the next morning we're getting up at 6:30, we're going to court

where they're gonna sneak you in and all these men

are gonna ask you exactly what happened.

Then they're gonna

sit a lady behind you you can't even see,

because then there's a lady there.

All that stuff was so traumatic

that I never even had a chance

to really, you know,

worry about, you know,

what happened that night with him.

It was like...

It just...

I had to worry about surviving the next day.

The facts indicate that before the alleged act

in this case

this girl had engaged in sexual activity.

That's contained in reports that we now have.

We want to know about it. We want to know who was involved when.

We want to know why these other people

were not prosecuted.

And this is a thing we want to fully develop.

I would just as soon

have walked away from it the next day.

But you can't stop it once it starts.

I mean,

I just...

I just went in my room,

pretty much, and just turned it off.

In "Chinatown,"

he exposed the dark side of corruption.

In "repulsion," he explored a warped mind.

In "Rosemary's baby,"

he examined the occult.

Now something altogether new,

altogether chilling...

No one does it to you like Roman polanski.

I wanted to find more out

about Mr. Polanski.

And luck have it,

the nuart theatre right down the street

on Santa Monica boulevard

had a polanski film festival

right after the indictment

and before trial.

Murder and treason!

What have you done to its eyes?

Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.

Every Roman polanski movie

has the theme...

Corruption meeting innocence over water.

I says, "oh, well, that's sort of what we have here..."

Corruption, Roman polanski,

meeting innocence, the 13-year-old girl,

over water, meaning the jacuzzi.

I felt I was going to be able

to pretty well convey to some jurors

that this happened

and he had directed a scene

very similar to this in his real life.

You'd better have your legs tied down

in case of convulsions.

"Rosemary's baby" was such a great movie

and was so well made

that people took it for the real thing.

This is no dream! This is really happening!

After that Roman had this reputation

of maybe having been a little bit

in league with the devil himself.

It didn't hurt him.

People were very intrigued

and it was kind of sexy in a way.

He had a tremendous power over people.

You had to fall in love with him, you know.

It was completely infectious.

There was no resisting him.

And every day was so vibrant

because he felt so passionately

about what he was doing

and he was on an adventure.

One of the things that you are renowned for

is your recklessness. You say that you're a reckless person.

- Do I say that? - You say that very frequently

to all sorts of people you talk to, though clearly

you're going to deny every single syllable of it tonight.

- Really? - Mm.

I mean, are you a reckless person?

Are you afraid of anything?

I am reckless, but I don't tell people about it.

Roman found California fantastic.

Of Los Angeles he says...

Everything is easy here.

You want to learn karate... You can learn karate.

You want to play chess... You can play chess.

You want to drive racing cars...

You can drive racing cars.

Everything is accessible in this town.

"Rosemary's baby" was a huge hit.

Roman was on top of the world.

Nothing could have been better.

He was in love with Sharon. They were having great parties.

He was going all over the world.

When he was the toast of the industry,

he was hanging out with all the people

that everybody wanted to hang out with.

Everybody wanted a piece of Roman

because the work was so original.

- Roman, Sharon. - Hi.

This is the very beautiful Sharon Tate

who I am sure you've seen in films.

And her husband, very talented Roman polanski,

best known for his original film "knife in the water,"

which he wrote and directed.

And he's also responsible for "Rosemary's baby,"

the picture.

And I think a little later we'll get a chance

to sit down and talk a little bit

- about sex and films. - Anytime.

Certainly it was a happy time

for all of us.

Roman was happy.

He was with beautiful Sharon.

Everyone loved her.

He loved her. I loved her.

We all loved her.

He was so insecure about so many things.

Knowing about his childhood...

He didn't have the blueprint for life

that others had.

One hoped for Roman, you know,

that this brand-new life

with a woman who loved him

and who seemed so right for him,

with a baby,

that there would be this security

that he had not had in his life,

and in a new homeland.

I mean, the future was his,

we thought.

And then everything just collapsed.

Well, we were preparing a film

that I was going to produce

called "the day of the dolphin."

We were writing the script in London.

Roman was a perfectionist.

He was always, "we'll finish it in a couple of days

and then do the rest in L.A."

It was a Saturday.

And the phone rang and I picked it up.

It was our agent bill tennant

who was on the phone.

And I immediately realized

that something was terribly wrong.

I mean, he was a very stable kind of guy.

He was absolutely distraught.

And I said, "what is it?"

And he said, you know,

something like "they're all dead. They're all dead."

I realized something awful had happened

and I gave the phone to Roman.

And...

I've never seen anything like it.

You know, I saw somebody

just disintegrate in front of my eyes.

This was at the home

of movie director Roman polanski

and it was his wife Sharon Tate who was one of the victims.

She too had repeated stab wounds.

One of the victims had a hood placed over his head.

And the word "pig" was written in blood on the door.

- We flew to L.A. - the next day.

He was devastated,

devastated to a point

that I've never seen any other human being

in that kind of condition.

And I remember

picking up the sunday newspapers.

I was already reasonably aware

of how the press functions.

Their business is selling newspapers.

The story was basically

how Roman had flown to Los Angeles,

murdered them all and then come back.

I mean, this was actually

in the newspapers,

in the headlines.

The nature of the murders,

you know, satanism, "Rosemary's baby,"

"this is the guy who made 'Rosemary's baby.'"

he knew so much about it. He couldn't have known

so much about it without actually being involved in it.

And so he must have been part of the cult.

And there was a cult. And they were murdered.

"And who gets murdered in this kind of way?"

It was a typical example

of the victim's being responsible

for their own death.

It was shocking.

It was truly unbelievable.

The last day I talked to her

was a few hours before the tragedy happened.

You are certainly curious

about my relationship with Sharon

within last few months.

I can tell you that the last few months

as much as the last few years

I spent with her...

Were the only time

of true happiness in my life.

And facts which will be coming out

day after day

will make ashamed

a lot of newsmen

who for a selfish reason

write unbearable for me,

horrible things

about my wife.

After Sharon was murdered

really everybody was totally freaked out.

It was a very weird time,

the highest paranoia,

the transition

of this sort of hippie kind of existence in L.A.

To this brutal awakening

of an understanding

that these kind of absolutely

horrible events can happen.

No one locked their doors.

No one thought about that there was

any kind of threat.

That ended at the end of the '60s

and simultaneously

changed everything overnight in L.A.

It was the end of a fairy tale, really,

in Roman's life,

in everybody's life.

He would have been a father of a son

who would have now been,

what, 30 years old?

Maybe he would have had other children,

probably would have continued

living in California.

Who knows?

How does one survive?

When you know his childhood...

He's a very very strong human being.

I think that the idea

of the magnet of tragedy

started after the Tate murders.

He was living out in Malibu

and the neighbors were all, like, horrified

because somehow if he was in the house next door

there was going to be another mass murder.

I mean, people are just too weird.

I tell you, it's crazy.

- Hold it there, kitty-cat! - Hold it.

Hello, Claude. Where did you get the midget?

You're a very nosy fellow, kitty-cat.

Do you know what happens to nosy fellows?

Huh? No?

Wanna guess? Huh? No?

Okay, they lose their noses.

Next time you'll lose the whole thing...

Cut if off and feed it to my goldfish.

Roman was different

when I met him on "Chinatown."

He was still a guy that loved life.

There was just this real dark shadow

that he had to deal with every day...

That, you know, there were people who were constantly,

"so what was it like, you know,

when Sharon... When your wife was killed?"

Do you hate certain members of the press

for the way you were treated

after your wife's murder?

Well, yes, to be honest, I do.

But I wouldn't call it a hatred now, you see.

It's somehow evolved to just indifference.

And I simply don't read it and try to avoid it.

Yeah.

But in general,

I despise the press tremendously

for its inaccuracy, for its irresponsibility

and for its

often even deliberate cruelty.

And all this is for lucrative purposes.

If one of your complaints

is the way the press misrepresents you...

And that is one of your complaints, isn't it?

Then surely it would be a good tactic

to give them the minimum possible target.

Yes, but then you have to...

You have to change your lifestyle

completely and go into hiding.

It seems like, say, six months after the murders

you're in the alps and consorting

with these girls from the finishing school and so on.

I can see how you would sort of

try to lose yourself like that.

But is it wise to say so?

Yes, it is wise to say so.

Why not?

Why wouldn't it be wise to say so?

That's the way it was.

And that's the way it is. You know, I mean, just...

Different people have different way

of seeing life and relationships.

It's not necessarily the same with you than me.

And people react

in different ways to grief.

Some go to a monastery,

others start

visiting whorehouses.

He decided he was gonna survive,

and the way he was gonna survive

is through his talent and having fun.

Whether it was dinner for four

and he was holding court with some idea he had,

or whether it was a group

of 30 or 40 or 50,

he liked to be the center of it all.

He was a wonderful host,

almost like a dance master.

He kept it all sort of stirred.

It gave him enormous pleasure.

And after Sharon

I think he didn't want to be alone too much.

It's not so good to be alone.

Everybody knows

the best way to get close to your dream

is to get to know a star, a real star.

Polanski after "Chinatown"

was not only a real star,

he was "the Roman polanski,"

a big name.

She wouldn't mind being discovered

by a man like Roman polanski.

After all, she had seen in the French "vogue"

pictures of nastassja kinski

who was 15 when she started

her affair with Roman polanski,

or Roman started it with her.

And everybody had the opinion

if polanski wouldn't have done

this photo layout with nastassja,

she would have never become

such a well-known young star.

He was a friend of a guy

my sister was dating.

And he wanted girls to model.

And I was modeling and acting

and wanted, you know, to be in the business.

So that was a great opportunity, you know.

We signed right up. "Sure, have my pictures taken

by Roman polanski. Sounds great."

Susie gaily,

the mother of the alleged victim,

introduced herself

as an actress to polanski.

And she had done some work in films.

Well, I was innocent, see.

And that's the truth.

What else can I say?

I remember vaguely

meeting the mother at some party...

You know, like, "hi."

And then I was away

and then heard about all of this.

But just in what I was told

and what I read,

I kept going back to the same question...

"why did the mother

bring her 13-year-old daughter into this group?"

Especially if she had spent time with them

and all the things that she said subsequently

were true... wouldn't you keep

your 13-year-old daughter away from that?

You know, this was a guy

that had a pretty wild reputation.

He was known as a womanizer.

He's a partygoer.

He certainly had a lot of women over the years

and he loved young women.

Why would her mother allow her

to be alone with polanski?

I don't like... you always get the "where was your mom?"

It's like, you know, give my mom a break.

You know, it's not her fault.

And so...

You know, I don't like hearing

anybody's opinion on it.

Like, every time someone brings it up,

and they're doing their little, you know, banter on t.V.

It's like, you weren't there. You don't know.

What are you talking about? You're saying how I felt,

what happened, how you feel about polanski.

You have no idea. And you're on the news

making all these statements

and thousands of people are listening to you and... shut up.

Another hearing on the admissibility

of the Beverly Wilshire hotel records

has been set for next Friday.

From Santa Monica, fernell Chapman,

news center 4.

I was instrumental

in arranging the plea bargain

because as I looked

at this family and Samantha, I thought...

At the time some people knew her name

and some of the kids at school knew who she was.

I thought it was important

to try to maintain her anonymity,

anonymity which would have disappeared

if the case had gone to trial.

And so I tried to persuade the district attorney

who had a new plea bargaining policy,

a tough plea bargaining policy.

I said, "I'm not gonna do it."

I have no interest in doing it."

And so what he decided was...

He says, "well, I'm gonna do it myself."

The l.A.P.D. Brought

the evidence envelope

to this courthouse building

and brought it in, actually, to this room.

There were about five, six or seven men

standing around,

looking, peering down

at this evidence envelope

and someone takes it and turns it and opens it

and out falls

these little girl's panties.

And so there was

this enormous court battle

over property that belonged to her

as to what was to be done with them.

And judge rittenband decided

to cut it in half

and give half to the prosecution

and half to the defense.

The defense expert went over and put on his latex gloves

and came back and then started

operating on these copper panties.

If you can imagine the humor

of about seven men sitting around a table...

...trying to identify any stains

and to make sure that the cut, or the piece,

includes part of that stain.

And they were fighting... "no no, it has to be"

just a little to this way. No, it should be over here.

"We shouldn't cut that way at all, we should cut..."

so finally they made the cut.

What we understood was

that Dalton was going to take his half

and submit it to a lab.

I also understood that the lab

was about to give its report in two weeks.

And two weeks and three days later

Dalton called me on the phone,

clearly now, I think,

having the results of the lab report,

saying, you know,

"what do you think would happen"

if we pursued a plea bargain

"with the prosecution?"

At which point... At that point I realized

that now polanski had an interest,

that the stain in the panties

was going to be brutal evidence for them.

The prosecution had loaded polanski up

with multiple charges.

The only one he was willing to admit

and to plead guilty to

was that he had had

consensual sex with the minor.

Mr. Dalton asked,

"could it be a misdemeanor..."

and I says, "no."

"... That he not go to state prison?"

I says, "no, that's got to be open."

And so he agreed to all those

and we agreed that it'd be unlawful sexual intercourse...

The lowest count

that related to the gravamen.

The agreement was

that polanski would plead guilty

to the one count,

that he would be sentenced

based upon the probation report

and the argument of counsel.

At that time the sentence

for unlawful sexual intercourse was

what they characterized as an indeterminate sentence,

so you're sent to state prison

for anywhere from six months to 50 years.

I checked and there hadn't been anyone

sent to prison for a conviction of this offense

in the year preceding

Roman polanski's case.

I thought it was a very good disposition,

for the reason that it vindicated

the family and the girl

and it exposed Mr. Polanski

to significant time in custody

based upon a probation report.

By entering his guilty plea,

polanski avoided going to trial,

a trial that was to have begun tomorrow,

the eighth anniversary of his wife's death

at the hands of the Charles manson family.

Standing with his lawyer Douglas Dalton,

polanski was asked by deputy district attorney Roger gunson

to what count he pleaded guilty.

"I had intercourse"

with a female person, not my wife,

"who was under 18 years of age."

"How old did you think the girl was?"

"I understood she was 13."

The plea bargaining was the result

of a request by attorney Lawrence silver,

representing the girl's family.

Silver asked judge Lawrence rittenband

to accept the plea and protect the girl

from the glare of publicity.

"A stigma would attach to her for a lifetime

and justice is not made of such stuff."

Judge rittenband in accepting the guilty plea

ordered polanski to be examined by two psychiatrists.

Sentencing will come after that,

when the judge could declare the director

a mentally disordered sex offender.

That could result in commitment to a state mental hospital.

Other possible sentences include

one year in county jail,

up to 50 years in a state prison,

deportation or probation.

We took our chances, obviously, here

because we had no idea or no way of knowing

what the probation department would conclude.

Judge rittenband appointed me

to evaluate Mr. Polanski for purposes of determining

whether he was at that time

a mentally disordered sex offender,

which was a legal term

having to do with an individual

who, by reason of a mental disorder,

was predisposed

to the commission of sexual offenses

that rendered him a danger

to the health and safety of others.

He was a very congenial

but somewhat reserved guy

who was very straightforward

in the interview.

As experiences go,

Roman polanski has had more

than what would impact on a dozen people,

in terms of his life as a child, confusion.

And ultimately he gets what he feels

is a stable relationship

and that's taken away from him

at the snap of a finger.

He had difficulty

in developing relationships with women after that.

I think he felt very very hesitant,

maybe out of fear.

My opinion paralleled

the recommendation

of the probation department.

I didn't talk about whether he should or should not go to jail.

I really focused solely on the psychiatric issues.

And it was my opinion that Mr. Polanski

did not qualify as a mentally disordered sex offender

and should not be handled as such.

My feeling was

the guy belonged in state prison.

Rittenband had asked me about it.

I said, "judge, you're gonna give this guy probation."

He said, "no no, I want to send him to jail."

I said, "you'll never do it."

Because the first thing that's gonna happen

"when you sentence him is, he's gonna appeal it."

"I'm gonna give him a year in a county jail"...

That would be the sentence they'd appeal immediately.

"I'm gonna give him weekends in a county jail"...

Immediate appeal.

No matter what the sentence was

if it included a day in jail,

Dalton, and correctly so, would have appealed it.

And it's gonna go all the way up

to the state supreme court.

He has the money and he'll take it

to the U.S. supreme court if he thinks he can.

He says, "well, what am I going to do?"

The judge called me into chambers.

He looked at me and said,

"dick, tell me,

what the hell do I do with polanski?"

I went, "whoa, your honor",

that's your decision,

that's not mine. I'm a reporter.

"I can't advise you on something like that."

I hadn't been covering courts that long,

but I knew a decision by a judge

was supposed to be a decision by a judge

and was not to take in any advice

from any other person

other than what was there in the law books,

what had been entered into evidence in the case.

He says, "well, what am I going to do?"

Or what should I do?"

I said, "you know, what you should do"

is send him up for 90-day observation."

A "12.03.03" is a diagnostic study

where a defendant on a felony case

is sent to chino for a 90-day observation.

It's like an in-depth probation report.

And he said, "well, what will that do?"

I said, "it's not a final sentence."

He can't appeal it. He has to go."

We were very pleased

when we got the probation report.

It recommended that polanski serve

no time in custody

and receive a straight probationary sentence.

However, we received a call from judge rittenband

asking us to come to chambers,

that he wanted to discuss the matter with us.

A probation officer, Roger gunson and I

all went into his chambers

for a meeting.

At that time the judge said

he was not going to follow

the recommendation of the probation department.

He had decided

that as punishment for polanski

he was going to send him to the state prison at chino

for a diagnostic study.

Gunson and the probation officer both protested.

I told him that the law was

that the diagnostic study

was not to be used as punishment

or as someone's sentence.

The courts are not supposed to use that.

And his response was,

"I don't want to send Mr. Polanski"

to county jail

because I don't want to be responsible

"if he were to be injured or killed."

I said, "judge, we had not expected this."

Polanski is engaged right now

in directing a large movie

that involves many people, millions of dollars.

"This is going to cause a tremendous hardship."

And he suggested

that I request a stay,

the "stay" meaning "to defer"

or put off this diagnostic study

in order for polanski to be able

to complete his work on the film.

What he wanted to do was

have us go out into open court

and pretend as though...

I don't know if he used the word "pretend,"

but not to divulge that we knew

what was going to happen.

He said, "I want you to go out",

gunson, and you argue

that polanski should be placed in custody.

And Dalton, you go out and you argue

that he should be put on probation.

Then I will make my remarks

and I will sentence him to chino

for the diagnostic study.

And the press need not know

anything more about this.

If you do not tell the press about this

and if polanski receives a good report

from the probation department,

which we all are quite sure he will,

"that will conclude his punishment."

I wasn't going to argue about it.

Polanski's fate hung in the balance.

If I started protesting

about the diagnostic study

rittenband could well have said,

"well, I'll just send him to prison.

How would you like that?"

That was the... fabrication

that he...

The scenario that he wanted to present

and he did present.

This thing had reached the point

where it was actually becoming surreal.

Gunson and I walked into the courtroom

which was packed

with newsmen and spectators.

We took our places at the counsel table,

sat down and waited

for the entrance of judge rittenband.

I argued first.

It was a very strange feeling

to be arguing when I knew exactly

what the result was going to be.

It was like having a mock trial.

In law school we did this,

we had staged trials and so forth,

but even then we didn't know what result was going to be.

But we dutifully went out.

I argued for probation.

I tried to make it sound as authentic as I could.

Gunson got up and made his argument.

And then rittenband proceeded

to give his closing remarks

which had been obviously

prepared in advance.

He argued much better than either one of us.

And as I sat there and listened, I thought,

"I think I see what's happening here."

He knows that this is a probation case.

The probation department has recommended probation.

Chino will very likely recommend the same thing.

And he wants to condition

the press and public to the fact

that when he puts polanski on probation,

that they see the basis that he used

"in arriving at that conclusion."

After 20 minutes in court

before superior judge Lawrence rittenband,

film director Roman polanski

and his lawyer Douglas Dalton

emerged from the courtroom

amidst a crush of reporters and cameramen.

Dalton had asked the court

to place polanski on probation,

arguing that, though the crime

of unlawful intercourse is a serious one,

it is not a unique crime.

The prosecutor, deputy district attorney Roger gunson,

asked that polanski be placed in custody,

though it was noted

that the 13-year-old girl in the case and her family

had asked the court not to incarcerate the film director.

On the basis of two psychiatric evaluations,

the judge ruled that polanski was not

a mentally disordered sex offender,

but he did order polanski to undergo

90-days' further psychiatric testing

at chino state prison,

postponing a final sentence

until the testing is completed.

Judge rittenband granted polanski

a three-month stay to conclude his present work.

At the end of that time the film director

will go to chino state prison

for 90-days' diagnostic testing.

Robin groth, n.B.C. News, Santa Monica.

- Why are you leaving the country, sir? - Sorry?

- Why are you leaving the country? - Where?

You're gonna leave the country on a business trip?

- Yes. - Can you tell us about that trip?

I'm going to Paris.

Will you come back?

Will I come back?

I certainly will. Don't worry.

Dino just called up and said,

"wonderful news. My god, Lorenzo, we got Roman.

We got Roman."

It was a potboiler...

Pearl divers getting caught in a giant clam

and all that stuff.

And Roman had reasonable contempt for the script...

Not a picture that Roman would have done.

And I imagine... again, I didn't discuss it,

but basically nobody else, I presume,

would hire him at that time.

And de laurentiis,

seeing a chance to get a great director

who otherwise he couldn't possibly have approached

for this project, stepped in immediately.

It was a coup, a triumph,

you know, taking advantage

of this guy's troubles to some extent.

Better luck for Roman would have been a judge

that never allowed him to go to Europe at all.

Roman called me and said, "listen,

I'm here in Munich. Can we meet?"

I said, "of course."

And we decided to go in the evening

to see the oktoberfest.

Roman actually didn't want to go

but we said, "you have to see that"

because this is unbelievable.

You have never seen 10,000 people

in a tent, drunken.

"I mean, you must see that."

He said, "okay, I'll go with you."

So finally we went to a special box.

I was with my girlfriend

and two other girlfriends, you know?

Most unfortunately,

he was photographed, caught in a pose

sitting in between two girls.

It was quite innocent, but, you know, photographs...

They say a photograph doesn't lie.

Nothing lies more than a photograph.

Lorenzo semple, Jr.: Roman always did have bad luck.

This is the kind of thing that a cautious person

would not have dreamed of doing.

I mean, they would have had themselves

photographed in the cathedral

or doing something like that.

That one photograph changed everything.

I took it into rittenband

because I figured it was something he ought to see.

And what I told him was, "you know, judge,"

you've made so many mistakes, I think, in this case.

Lookit, he's giving you the finger. He's flipping you off.

"Haven't you had enough of this?"

He says, "what? What?

He's not getting away with that."

The judge became furious

when this appeared in the paper.

He was interviewed

by a Hollywood gossip columnist, Marilyn Beck.

Rittenband told me that he had been duped.

I really believe he had been duped.

In the interview he said

that very possibly he wanted

polanski back in the country

and polanski could be on his way to prison now.

That photograph embarrassed the judge.

Mr. Polanski is supposed to be

very focused and intent when he's working.

And this photograph demonstrated

that at that moment in time he was not.

Why was he in Germany?

He should have been working hard on a movie.

Could you clear up that current misunderstanding?

The judge ordered Roman

to come back to the states

and he called dino in to testify.

Dino explained

through me as the translator

that we were going on with the production

and the preparation of the production,

and that this was just part

of the whole thing of making movies.

Mr. De laurentiis, could you explain

why you sent Mr. Polanski to Germany?

Roman was still working when he was in Munich

because the distributor convinced Roman

to come there and spend the night

or go out for a few drinks

and at the same time talk about "hurricane."

I've already explained. I've already explained.

I don't think the judge knew that

or understood that.

And most of all, he didn't believe it.

- Okay, now step aside, please. - Let 'em through.

De laurentiis testified, Roman testified.

There was no evidence at all to the contrary.

I rested my case.

And the ruling had to be, of course,

that he was there on business purposes.

And that was the finding of the judge.

I told him, you know, "you just have to bear up"

and go through this

and remember at the conclusion of this

this case will be over.

You'll have no further time in custody

"and it will all be behind you."

That's Dalton?

Yeah, that was Dalton, his lawyer.

Mr. Dalton, has Mr. Polanski talked to you

about his reaction to coming here

for this almost three-month period?

Yes, he has. Excuse me,

I have some business to conduct in here.

Has he indicated to you as to what his feelings are?

Mr. Polanski, do you have any statement at all?

Mr. Polanski, do you have any statement at all?

Mr. Polanski, do you have any statement at all

regarding this 90-day psychiatric study that you've come in for?

- No. - No statement whatsoever?

What are your immediate thoughts right now?

Any thoughts that you have at all?

Will he be given any special consideration here?

Nothing other than anybody else that would come in.

When we talk about special housing

and special consideration, what we're talking about is...

Everybody that comes in, we screen them

for possible protective custody housing.

But we're concerned for his safety.

- There were sketches. - There were locations.

People had been up to chino and talked to Roman.

I mean, he was prepping the movie from chino.

Dino and I went to visit Roman.

Dino, of course, was concerned

as to what was going to happen with his film.

I was kind of shocked when we saw Roman.

We were sitting outside at a table,

outside of the prison. He was nervous,

always looking over his shoulder

to see what was in back of him.

He said that he was concerned about

what the other prisoners would do to him

if they could get near him

because he was accused

of being a child molester.

It was very grim

and it was a very frightening place.

You know, this is a hard core...

You know, murderers.

Roman was not safe there.

People get killed there.

Polanski of course was delighted.

He felt, as properly he should,

that he had lived up

to his obligations in the case...

He had admitted his guilt,

he served the sentence that had been imposed...

And now it was over and he could go on with his life.

I was quite surprised.

Everyone in the criminal justice system is aware

that 90-day diagnostic studies

take less than 90 days.

There are not very many people, I would guess,

who have had the experience of it only being 42.

That's not a punishment. A punishment...

You know, he was charged with very serious crimes.

You're talking about crimes

that would incur state prison time,

maybe 10, 15, 20 years in state prison.

A 13-year-old girl,

where he had sexual intercourse with her,

sodomized her, gave her drugs,

gave her alcohol.

He got off with nothing.

Mr. Gunson, it's usually the practice

of the district attorney's office

to prosecute the defendant to the fullest degree.

You've deviated apparently in this case. Why?

Why did you agree to copping out on the plea

if he should have had a full trial with charges?

What do you mean, "copping out"?

Between the time that the judge agreed

that the 90-day diagnostic study be his sentence,

there had been lots of news media reports

very critical of the judge.

And now that it appears that Mr. Polanski

will be walking away from a rape

after just serving 42 days,

it's going to be embarrassing to the judge

and he needs to overcome it.

My father was at the hillcrest country club

washing his hands in the locker room,

and standing next to him was judge rittenband.

And one of gentlemen at hillcrest

came up to rittenband and said,

"are you really gonna let that little Polish

blah-blah-blah off?"

And rittenband said,

"well, he thinks so, but no way."

We're gonna put that little blank-blank away

"for the rest of his life."

When we met in his chambers,

at this time judge rittenband said

that he wasn't going to honor

the promise that he had made

about releasing polanski

upon completion of the diagnostic study.

He gave as his reason

that he was getting too much criticism.

The judge says that 42 days

is not enough time in custody,

that he expected him to be in there 90 days.

And so somehow he has to make up

these 48 days

of the intended sentence of 90.

Now gunson at this point said,

"if it's 48 more days you want,"

why don't you just give him 48 days

in the county jail?

And then you will have accomplished

"him serving the full 90 days in jail."

And rittenband said,

no, he was not willing to do that

because the perception of a prison sentence

must be maintained for the press.

He told me

that if I would come back to court

after the press was gone and the public was gone,

that he would then recall polanski

and he would be released from prison.

It became obvious to me

that he wanted him deported

because he did not want him around here

embarrassing the judge

any more than he already had.

He wanted Roman to agree

that he would voluntarily waive

any rights he may have regarding deportation.

Rittenband had no jurisdiction

over such matters. And it is illegal

to impose an illegal condition

upon somebody serving time in custody.

And so we now are in a category

of actual illegal conduct.

This was getting rather contentious,

as you might understand,

and I said, "if we're going to do that, judge",

I want to have a hearing regarding the sentencing

as we're entitled to do.

And I want to have witnesses here

"and I want to have a hearing."

And he said, "well, I'm going to sentence him anyway."

And if you still insist on having your hearing

then I may withdraw these things

that I told you that I would do

if you went along with this thing

"that I'm going to do tomorrow."

The proceeding was concluded by...

Judge rittenband, as he had done before,

directed me to argue for probation.

He wanted gunson to, again, argue for time in custody.

And then he would impose the sentence

that he had discussed with us.

I certainly was not arguing

for state prison in chambers,

nor did I intend to argue

that he should send him to state prison

to participate in this sham

that the judge was involved in.

We got up, we walked out of the room.

I remember

saying immediately to gunson,

"I'm not going to do this again."

No matter what he does,

"I'm not gonna participate in this thing."

And gunson said, "I'm not going to do it either."

As we walked down the aisle

past the chairs of an empty courtroom at that time,

Doug Dalton turned to me and said,

"do you think that I can trust the judge?"

And I said

something that I wish I hadn't said.

Maybe it did or didn't make a difference,

but I shouldn't have said it.

And what I said to him was,

"I don't know why not. You trusted him once."

I didn't know what I was going to do

the following day.

I did know that I was no longer going to participate

in a proceeding that was being designed solely

to advance the purposes of judge rittenband.

I told Mr. Dalton

that I would be available to...

Disclose this information

to anyone at any place at any time.

I contacted Roman

and I said for them to come to my office

and discuss what was going to happen

the following morning.

I told them it was my opinion

that the sentence would be illegal,

that we could probably obtain relief on appeal,

but that would involve a long procedure

and polanski would be incarcerated

during that period of time.

I said that the judge had said

that if Roman agreed to waive

any deportation hearing

and be deported,

that he would then be released

if he also had by then served 48 days.

Roman said to me, "can we trust him?"

And I said, "no, we can't trust him."

We have no idea what he may do.

We've all agreed

that he can no longer be trusted

"and what he represents to us is worthless."

With that, Roman got up, looked at me

and I believe he said, "I'll see you guys later."

And he left the room.

There were two or three other people there.

And I gave Roman an envelope,

which I thought was script notes

or something else.

The general feeling I had is,

"why is everybody so nervous?"

There was an electricity in the air.

...have to do with

what was my conversation with Mr. Polanski.

My conversation with him is protected

by the attorney/client privilege.

I can't divulge to you

the substance or the content

of my conversation with him.

Only to say what I said in court...

That he did call me this morning at my home

and he told me he would not be here.

I asked him to call me again

because I wanted to discuss this with him further

and attempt to persuade him to return.

He said he would call me again.

Doug, the court asked you whether you thought

you might be able to talk him into coming back.

What was your response?

I said I thought I had

a reasonable chance of being successful.

How will you try to do it?

Can you tell us what makes you think

- he's out of the country? - No, I can't tell you that.

My belief is that he's not in the country.

What happens if he does not come back, Mr. Dalton?

Then the court goes ahead and...

Roman polanski is in seclusion,

his friends say, inside this fashionable building

in downtown Paris where he keeps an apartment.

He skipped the country early yesterday

only hours before he was to be sentenced for illegally having sex with...

He had given her champagne and a quaalude.

He has told a friend here

his refrigerator is full, and he does not intend to leave.

Many feel the aura of tragedy

and sensationalism that surrounds polanski

obscures his brilliance as a director.

The judge in the Roman polanski morals case

said today he intended to send polanski back to prison.

"A year of torture is enough."

...has begun proceedings

to force polanski back to the United States.

However, authorities are not optimistic about succeeding.

Unfortunately, I'm advised that the treaty with France

might not allow for his return to this country,

at our request, to be sentenced on this charge.

Why is that?

As far as I can tell,

the treaty only specifies, number one, rape.

As you know, Mr. Polanski was not convicted of rape.

He was convicted of unlawful sexual intercourse,

and that's a different crime than rape.

Secondly, the treaty specifies

that it's discretionary

on the part of France to return French citizens.

In other words, they have an option.

They can or they can't, depending on how they feel

about a particular case or maybe even possibly a particular person.

Whether the d.A. Succeeds in extraditing polanski or not,

judge Lawrence rittenband plans

to impose polanski's sentence on February 14th,

with or without the filmmaker's presence.

The length of time of course would depend

upon whether or not

there would be a deportation,

or if not deported involuntarily,

he would agree with the director of immigration

to consent in writing

to leaving the country...

In which case,

any balance of his stay in state prison

would be cut short.

But it was to be no less

than the full period of 90 days.

The judge held a press conference.

Shock waves went through the judicial community.

A judge holding a press conference

regarding a pending case...

Totally unheard of.

He said that he intended now

to sentence polanski in absentia.

So I prepared a challenge for cause

to disqualify a judge.

If you do this, you're required to prove

that there are actual prejudices

existing by the judge

and that you can't have a fair trial

or a fair hearing before him.

I showed the declaration to Roger gunson.

He read it very carefully. He agreed...

"that's true. That's what happened.

I will back you up if need be."

The judge was furious.

He knew the statements in the declaration were all true.

He knew that I knew it, he knew that gunson knew it

and he knew that Larry silver knew parts of it.

And so there was nothing he could do but step aside.

He was through and he knew it.

I was young, but the way I felt was,

the judge was enjoying the publicity

and he didn't care about what happened to me

and he didn't care about what happened to polanski.

He was, like, orchestrating some little show,

you know, that I didn't want to be in.

I clearly hold no brief for Mr. Polanski.

And obviously what he did to Samantha, my client,

was wrong and outrageous,

but nevertheless, he was supposed to be treated fairly in court

and he clearly was not.

I'm not surprised that he left

under those circumstances.

Really?

Yeah.

Jesus. Wow.

Clive, I think it was a wonderful idea

to do this interview

over this lunch,

but the lunch is getting into a dinner now.

And in case if you have in mind

finishing this interview, I wanted to ask you

whether you intend to end on this note,

or do you think there's something more to my life

than my relations with young women?

He rebuilt his life in France

with great honor.

He's a member of the academie francaise.

And in France he's desired,

and in America he's wanted.

Permettez-moi de vous adresser

un tres chaleureux merci.

And the Oscar...

Goes to Roman polanski for "the pianist."

The academy congratulates Roman polanski

and accepts this award on his behalf.