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so thank you in Mahan for visiting us

here at the United Nations in Geneva for

coming for this interview you know I

always wanted to ask you this question

why are you in the eyes of some people

even your own people even Muslims a sort

of controversial figure what do you

think why that is Christian first of all

thank you for your kind invitation to be

interviewed here the last time we were

at the other restaurant in Geneva and

this time I'm back home because I used

to be a graduate student a PhD student

at the Graduate Institute of

International Studies around the lake in

Geneva there and while I was a PhD

student I had access to the UN library

so I used to be here the Paladin a co

lot a lot a lot of time I spent over

here so it's like coming back home but

the world has changed since then it was

40 years ago and now it's a strange new

world and those who have eyes and can

see with those eyes and that is the

essential part of religion to have eyes

and to be able to see and perceive the

reality of things when we when we

recognize the reality of the world today

and then we expose its reality and we

show that it the appearance and reality

are quite different from each other the

nuts a shock for many people because

there are so many in the world today who

have eyes and yet cannot see and as a

consequence they respond to me with

shock and with discomfort and that's why

there are so many

in the world today who have this

particular attitude towards me but not

only to me to all those whether you be

Christian or Jew or Hindu or Buddhist or

Muslim who seek to penetrate the reality

of the world today and then to expose

that reality we do become a people who

are public problematic for the rest yes

do you do you refer probably to also to

the spiritual high to the high you know

not to the the high of man but also the

perception you know from a spiritual

perspective right the religion of Islam

is not unique in recognizing that it is

the Lord God who created us all and who

created the human being and when he

created the human being he breathed it

into the human being of his divine

spirit as a consequence of which every

human being by virtue of being a human

being possesses something divine inside

of him and her inside of him and that

which is divine inside of us gave us the

capacity to see what otherwise cannot be

seen and so yes it is a spiritual

interpretation of the world and a

spiritual interpretation of history

which makes us different

Imran you you you let the Friday prayer

service at the United Nations not even

in Geneva but in New York for for how

many 10 years yes yeah when you think

back what was who was it about it was a

very interesting time for me because

prior to this I was in the world of

books in the academic world well when I

went to New York in 1992 and very

quickly I was appointed as the

Director of Islamic studies for the

Joint Committee of Muslim organizations

of Greater New York that is New York New

Jersey and Connecticut the Islamic

community of the United Nations was one

of 16 organizations which came together

to establish this joint committee and I

was required to go to the United Nations

headquarters in Manhattan once a month

on the day of Friday the day of the

congregational prayer and the the

secretary-general gave us the largest

hall in the building which was his

reception hall for our prayers every for

every Friday every day of Jummah and I

would have to conduct the prayer I have

to deliver this sermon and there would

be delegates from all over the world

coming in and out of the UN and after

the prayer we will go to the cafeteria

for lunch and I'll have a chance to chat

with people from all parts of the world

it was a thrilling experience for me a

New York at that time was the center of

the world but the gravity is changing

now nirach is no longer going to remain

the center of the world for long again

and I spent there 10 years 10 years it

was a very interesting time it was a

learning experience I I was able to meet

with rabbis for the first time in my

life and the rabbi's were usually very

well educated people and I had to

interact with them and I'm green to this

kind of world I met with ministers of

the Christian faith

I remember being invited to a conference

in upstate New York and there were 200

Methodist Christian ministers and I have

to make a presentation on Islam and I'm

the only was llem

and they were challenging me on certain

verses of the Quran and I had to respond

and I was beginning to understand the

world afresh so my stay in New York for

those 10 years at the United Nations

headquarters in Manhattan

was very beneficial for me for

understanding the world today you know

we're talking about religion and

inter-religious dialogue interfaith

dialogue what in your opinion is you

know how can we get you know all these

different religions together that belief

in you know the one God and make them

understand that if we unite together you

know then we are a force against the

evil of ungodliness and everything that

goes on in the secular world today right

Christian it's a good time for the beard

to be white it's a good time to be old

and it's a difficult time to be young

you and I have seen the world change

before our eyes and it's still changing

there is some mysterious transformation

taking place before eyes in the world

and it's not for the better it is as

though the world is decaying it's

rotting and when we look at the cause of

the rotting of the world we see that

there appears to be a war being waged on

the religious way of life the religious

way of life delivers stability stability

in the person stability in the family

stability in the home in the society and

in the world and as the religious way of

life is under attack and it crumbles and

disintegrates there is chaos in the

world is on our key in the world and

society is collapsing around the world

it's becoming a more and more violent

world it's becoming a world of more

tears than smiles and if you recognize

that this is happening in the world

today and you old enough to be able to

have that maturity what do we do about

it and our first response Christian our

first response is is

time for those who live the religious

way of life to come together religion is

based on moral values on truth and truth

it's under attack in the world today it

is with truth that you can recognize

falsehood it is with truth that you can

expose falsehood religion is based on

truth and truth is based on justice it

is with truth that you can recognize

injustice and oppression in law and we

will live the religious way of life the

Christian the Roman Catholic Church the

Protestants the Hindus the Buddhists the

Orthodox Christian the Jew if a Jew

opposes oppression and resists the

oppressor he is my brother if a

Christian does the same he is my brother

as a Muslim and so it's time enough for

us to come together to try to understand

the reality of the world today and to

devise a common strategy for responding

to the challenge to faces us today is

this what you refer to in from an

Islamic view evil and good and evil gog

and magog is that what we are talking

about the Christian knows about Gog and

Magog explain shortly what kokkinakis

gog and magog people and they are people

who belong to the end time so it's

eschatology they are created by the Lord

God and they are endowed with power

irresistible power but we who follow the

religious way of life we will use power

to oppose oppression and we will use

power to liberate the oppressed

and we will use power to assist those

who want to live lives of righteousness

and piety but they use power to oppress

and they use power to wage war on the

religious way of life and that's where

we are today those who are waging war on

the religious way of life in the world

today those who are the masters of

oppression are gog and magog in the

world of Islam we have gog and magog

christianity has it judaism has it i

have written a book entitled an islamic

view of gog and magog in the modern

world but it's not possible in the brief

time that we have to be able to go to

the quran to teach to explain to you but

in a nutshell look at the world today

and you see those who control power and

are using that power to oppress and are

using that power to wage a war on the

religious way of life they a Goggin

regard isn't that oppression that you

are also referring to here pretty much

driven by the monetary system for

example is that is that part of the

oppressive I'm so happy I'm so happy

that you asked that question

because I forgot something about gog and

magog they have PhDs in corruption they

corrupt everything that they touch and

they corrupt for example the human

personality which which which is

comprised of external site and internal

site in the human personality and they

corrupted such an extent that we have

inside of us only darkness no light if

you have no light inside of you you

cannot see they corrupt our bedroom life

the corrupt a woman who is supposed to

be

a woman now she's being changed into a

man and the man who is supposed to be a

man and fulfill his functions as a man

to maintain his family for example he

now is abandoning that and living more

of the feminine way of life this

corruption is taking place everywhere in

sports in education in the political

system in business but it is taking

place most dangerous all in money and

when Jesus comes back and the most

powerful voice in history to her

prophesied that Jesus will return is the

voice of Prophet Muhammad Allah

blessings be upon him when Jesus comes

back he's not going to be using the Euro

or the USD no when Jesus come back he

will be using the money that they were

using in the temple in Jerusalem and the

Christian has to be reminded I hope he's

not offended by a Muslim reminding him

that when Jesus returns he's going to be

using gold coins and silver coins

because the temple minted its own coins

in Jerusalem that is now prohibited by

those who control power in the world

you're not allowed to you as gold as

money no and we must resist it we will

live the religious way of life the

corruption of money is the most

dangerous problem we face today in the

world and in the religious way of life

would you say with all the things that

are happening around us in the past

20-30 years or more even that this is

really we are living actually really in

the last day so to speak is this we most

certainly living in the end time and we

are now on the verge of the greatest war

of all history and I remember Pope

Francis meeting with the head of the

Orthodox Christian Church it was it may

be in Havana they met

maybe a year ago and both of them the

leaders of this side of Christianity and

that side of Christianity both made a

declaration warning about the great war

which is coming and seeking to try to

avoid that Great War I remember that

declaration to Pope Francis and in Cuba

that Great War is part of the endtime

the Christian knows it is Armageddon the

Muslim knows it as the Mihama and that

great war is going to substantially

reduce the population of the world so

this is a subject of supreme importance

we are on the verge of it and it could

start in Korea echo start in Ukraine but

we know the gravity is going to put it

to a particular area between Syria and

Turkey where the pieces are being put in

place where the pieces are being put in

place for the Great War we in Islamic

eschatology not only know about the

Great War but we know what's going to

happen after the Great War and I was

pleasantly surprised to find in

Christian eschatology that you also have

the same view today is going to be a

conquest of Constantinople after the

Great War I went to Moscow and I was

surprised to find Christian eschatology

or we also have this belief of the

conquest of Constantinople after which

the Antichrist will appear in person

Constantinople being Istanbul I don't

like the word Istanbul no but I mean yes

I don't like the word Istanbul I want to

recover the word Constantinople

when our prophet referred to that city

he used the name Constantinople and when

we liberate that city we will recover

the name of Constantinople number one

number two we will apologize to the

Christian world

we will apologize to the Christian world

for what the Ottoman Empire did when

they conquered the city they took the

largest Christian Cathedral the Hagia

Sophia which had been a Cathedral for

1,000 years and they sinfully and

disgracefully and maliciously

transformed it into a Masjid to the

eternal shame and disgrace of the world

of Islam so we will restore it it is

your church it is your Cathedral and

apologize to the question well let's

talk for a second about Pope Francis

what is your view on this Pope on the

papacy oh I would very much love to meet

with the leaders of the Roman Catholic

Church for a dialogue on eschatology

that he should recognize that the great

war is coming for me it's important he

did not refer to it as Armageddon so I'd

like to ask him whether you are

referring to Armageddon and if you are

then what follows after that and how

should we respond to Armageddon we need

to have Christian Muslim Jewish dialogue

not just on what is similar between our

religions and what is different but more

importantly a dialogue on eschatology on

the endtime I perhaps one of the if you

will excuse it did one of the leading

scholars in the world of Islam today and

this is not in any boasting way we have

several books which have been written

and I'm just completing now a new book

on the Antichrist the Quran and the

bidding a beginning of history and after

this will come another book on the

Antichrist the Quran in the end of

history and then another book on from

Jesus the true Messiah to the Antichrist

the false messiah so I am literally

pioneering Islamic eschatology and it's

a time for

student dialogue if I can meet with the

Pope or with his representatives for the

Catholic Church the Protestants the

Orthodox Christians and dialogue and the

subject it would be fascinating isn't

there the the way of religious life the

or shall we say the necessary in order

to prepare us for the life they after so

is that the the protection of the ridaz

life a protection of our eternal life in

a way so the threat from the other side

is obviously from the enemy that tries

to you know be stand between us and

salvation yes the religious free of life

is important and those who are priests

and rabbis and imams and scholars and

who live a life of piety we these are

the beacon these are the luminaries of

the world today I remember when I was in

secondary school my father chose the

most important College in the country in

Trinidad a secular institution and I

should have been happy to be in the most

important College in the country I

remember at the age of 14 asking my

father can you transfer me to the Roman

Catholic College in my own town because

there was a natural attraction to the

priest who lived the religious way of

life I didn't have that in that major

college of the country so the priest who

is a pious person and who lives the

religious way of life can transform

those who around him transform the world

but today it is corruption you have the

Islamic scholars who are being paid to

do all kinds of wrong things and you

have the Christian priests who are an

embarrassment to the Christian Church

and they are rabbis also like that so we

if we look for those who are

authentically living the religious way

of life in Christianity in you

in Hinduism in Buddhism in Islam and

these people come together not the

rotten apples how do we spot them that

they are the right ones and the other

ones the rotten apples those who truly

live the religious way of life would

have light in Arabic the word is no

light there be light in their hearts and

there be light in the face you can't buy

that light in the supermarket no it's

fading away today those who control the

political world are people with only

darkness those who control the market

have only darkness on their faces those

who control the banking system only

darkness on their face but when you have

eyes at which you can see you can

recognize someone who has light who

walks with purity when Jesus comes back

you will see light walking not pure pure

pure light when Jesus comes back here

and we look forward to that day in the

world of Islam let's talk for minute

about the the end times and if we're

talking about a mageddon so how is why

is this so important that we speak about

the end times you know because Jesus

four examined the Bible spoke that we

living in the last days already and this

is a thought of three thousand years ago

so end times and I'm again when are the

end times what what what do we have to

discuss in your opinion about the end

times from the perspective of Islam

something that no Muslim can defer with

is that the most important event

remaining to occur in history is the

return of the Son of Mary the Virgin

Mary Jesus a large blessing be upon them

all but our prophet has said that before

Jesus returns the Antichrist will seek

to impersonate him what we're living

through now is an effort by the

Antichrist to prepare himself for that

moment when he going to appear in person

and then from Jerusalem proclaim himself

to be the Messiah but he would not be

the Messiah he would be the false

messiah but in order for him to convince

those who rejected Jesus as the Messiah

to convince them that he is their

Messiah he will have to do a number of

things number one he will have to

liberate the Holy Land for them

number two he'll have to bring them back

to the Holy Land to reclaim it as their

own after 2,000 years number three he'll

have to restore a state of israel in the

holy land and make the proclamation

eventually this is holy Israel of

Solomon and of David and number four

most dangerous of all for which he needs

Armageddon he needs our gettin is that

that Israel must become the ruling state

in the world pax Judaica so we can now

understand that Pax Britannica and Pax

Americana were meant to pave the way for

pax Judaica we are on the verge of that

at this time so when you refer to Pax

Americana and pax Britannia is that in

the control over the monetary system

it's not just the control over the

monetary system is that the control over

money is part and parcel of the effort

required to control the world to rule

the world

the holy state of Israel of Solomon our

last lesson be upon him was a ruling

state it's going to surprise your

viewers now what I'm going to say it's

also kind of a surprise the Muslims who

have been reading the Quran but not as

yet been able to understand that in the

Quran we're told that the Lord God one

day caused something to happen to

Solomon which caused him distress

well Akkad fattened s all a man and when

he saw what it was probably a vision he

saw someone sitting on his throne and he

realized that this was an impostor who

would one day seek to capture holy

Israel and he then made a prayer which

is in the Quran he prayed to God for a

holy Israel lion beguiling Adam embody

that no one after me will be able it

cannot belong to any one after me

meaning the Antichrist so he saw the

Antichrist sitting on his throne but the

Quran refers to that person who was

sitting on the throne as a being without

a soul a body without a soul that's the

Antichrist we are now living through

that moment in history when the effort

to establish a holy state of Israel and

declared to be the State of Israel of

Solomon and of David is about the climax

is about the climax the Jew who is a Jew

and who longs for truth would must must

recognize that this is a false messiah

it's coming the Christian must recognize

of course because the Christian believes

that Jesus is the Messiah and so does

the Muslim that this is a false messiah

who is now seeking to control law and

who is using oppression oppression in

the monetary system of

Russian in the banking system or

Christian in the political system and

anyone who seeks to resist him is a

terrorist

so now let's talk quickly about

Jerusalem in the Koran

Jerusalem is perhaps in English oh I

don't know what language it is in

Jerusalem but the Arabic is not

Jerusalem in the Arabic language we the

Quran isn't in Arabic language yeah it

is good or as Bayt al-maqdis the holy

city the holy city here and there are

several references in the Quran but it's

always covered the Quran for example we

refer to it as alarmed Olmo Kunduz at

the holy land the holy land in which is

located the city of Jerusalem and the

Quran says Christian you're going to be

surprised when I tell you this the Quran

says that the holy land was given to the

Israelite people to the Jews and I often

wonder why is it not posted in all black

letters in the New York Times

the Quran said the holy land was given

to the Jews yes yes yes Christian you're

going to be surprised the reason why

they don't do it is because the Quran

goes on to explain it holy Jerusalem in

the Holy Land was given conditionally

conditionally did you have to be

righteous in conduct and you have to be

worshipping the one God don't tell any

lies about him hmm if you say you are

the chosen people of the Lord God to the

exclusion of all the rest of mankind I'm

quoting for you the Quran if you believe

that you are the chosen people of the

Lord cut the people who are the elect of

the ladka to

the exclusion of all the rest of mankind

the Quran says well why don't you desire

death if you are truthful

if you believes is the Quran that heaven

is reserved for you to the exclusion of

all the rest of mankind you the only

ones for heaven

but why don't you desire death if you

are indeed truthful but this is false

this is false all human beings will

stand before the Lord God on Judgment

Day as equal in his sight as other teeth

of a comb the white the black the brown

the yellow none can claim superiority

over another superiority is based on

conduct if you are righteous in your

conduct if you stand up for justice you

are superior before the Lord God and if

you are an oppressor Jerusalem and the

holy land which is Israel today is where

the final struggle is taking place and

history will conclude with the triumph

of truth over falsehood and justice over

injustice and oppression that is our

eschatology now in conclusion go back to

the Catholic Church anti Islamic faith

are there any how do we should get

together what what would you suggest to

fight this together to bring all you

know believers that believe in God

together and what is a plan that you

have maybe there are lots of rotten

apples Krish doesn't have lots of rotten

apples in the world today we got rotten

apples in the world of Islam you got

rotten apples in the world of

Christianity they got rotten apples in

Judaism there lots of rotten apples in

Africa and in India and in China we have

to try to separate those who are indeed

pure from those who are not and the

Roman Catholic priest and scholar

who is living purity living the life of

integrity and who has been blessed with

light this is the man who we should

reach out to in the Roman Catholic

Church such a man will be able to

recognize the oppressor and recognize

oppression and recognize the history of

oppression on Africa for example the

history of oppression in united states

where slavery is still around and try

being in united states because the slave

master is still a slave master and you

have to be blind not to see that the

slaves in America are still slaves today

just look at the economy and he'll tell

you so you have to look for such people

in the Roman Catholic Church look for

such people in Jewish religion and in

Islam these are the ones who must come

together not the rotten apples and they

must dialogue with each other I have

much to learn from the Christian faith I

have much to learn from Christian

eschatology yes and for me it's a joy a

pleasure to meet with a monk to meet

with a priest who is living the

religious way of life to benefit from

his company I think this is the kind of

dialogue not the establishment the

establishment has been taken over and is

taken for a ride

we got to look for them the ones who

truly live the religious way of life and

these must come together and I'm

grateful to you Christian for this

opportunity to share with you these

views which I hope will now reach to the

Roman Catholic Church wherever this

program is viewed and that they may

respond positively I thank you also I

learned a lot through your teachings as

well you know being Catholic and

listening to your television programmes

I think we all could use more you know

learning and listening to other teachers

that are outside of our own religion in

order to understand the religion

and understand what we have in common

and then you know together do something

about the world that is completely

opposed to this thank you so much man

for being here with us today taking your

time and yeah hope you know - see you

soon on your program Thank You Christian

thank you god bless you

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