Original subtitles

[Music playing]

-Hello, everyone, and welcome to our show.

My guest today is Mark Gavin, here

to talk about his new bestseller,

"we don't need god."

Well, professor, what in the world

inspired you to write this book?

-Well, first, I want to thank you

for having me on your program, frank.

And, uh, as far as your question?

Well, look around you.

There's no evidence of god.

Yet that damaging meme still persists

that there's some invisible entity

up there that's watching and judging us.

I don't need god to be happy.

And quite frankly, if there was a god,

I wouldn't want anything to do with him.

-Well, you sound so sure of that, professor.

How can you be so sure?

-Well, no one can be 100% sure, frank.

But I have the evidence on my side.

And the other side?

All they deal with is emotion and tradition and morality.

Look, I am not the only one who has ever

written a book, gone on TV, and told

people what they don't want to hear.

But I do hope that I'm gonna be the last.

-Ok.

Well, um, please look out for "we don't need god,"

out this week.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

-I just got her down for a nap.

-Oh, ok.

-That should give you about an hour, I think.

Are you gonna go to the playground after?

-Yeah, I think so.

-Good.

I have some casserole left in the fridge

if you want to have that for dinner.

-Ok.

-And I'm leaving out the chocolate chips

if you want to make those cookies again.

Jenny (offscreen): Definitely will.

-How's school going?

-It's fine.

I had a big test the other day and spent the entire night

before arguing with Derek over the future of our relationship.

-That didn't help with your studies, I'm sure.

-Nope.

-Speaking of complicated relationships,

I'm heading to the court to finish the paperwork.

-I'm so happy you got full custody of Jamie.

That's just better for her all around.

-I think so too.

Chad, however, doesn't think so.

-Yeah, I would imagine.

-I will leave my cell phone on.

If you need anything, call.

-Ok.

-If not, have a great time.

-We will.

-And I'll see you later.

-Bye.

-Bye.

-Dean, hold up a minute, will you?

Why don't you come to church with me today?

I think what we're discussing is going to be right up

your alley.

-Thanks, but no thanks.

Besides, you know I don't believe in that stuff anymore.

-Since when?

-I don't know, dad.

Since I started thinking for myself?

-You carry this with you?

-Yup.

-Come on.

It'll be a bonding experience.

We hardly spend any time together anymore.

-Yeah, well, it's depressing here.

-We'll go somewhere else.

-No thanks.

-There's a job fair in town.

I know you've been worried about that.

-Dad!

-I just don't want to see you waste

you life drinking like this.

-Are you following me?

-I see you come home, stumbling around drunk.

Look, you can hide this from yourself.

But can't hide it from me, and you can't hide it from god.

-I know you think you're helping me, but you're not.

-I just want us to spend some time together.

I know you have free time this weekend.

-What?

So it's not enough that I'm-- I'm out of school,

I don't have a job, and I'm living with my dad,

but I gotta spent time with him too?

I don't need this.

-Look, I'm not trying to guilt you

into doing something you don't want to do.

-I just watched it.

-Yeah?

-I am so proud of you.

I can't imagine doing what you do.

-Well, 20 years of practice.

-You have a gift.

I mean, the way people hang on your every word.

I-- they believe in you.

-It's all a lie.

I go out there and preach that god doesn't exist,

and then he shows up.

-I thought we were past this.

-You don't get it, do you.

-I think you've had a very long day.

So how about I, uh, draw you a nice hot bath, and I'll

have dinner waiting when you get out?

Hmm?

Come on, come on.

Let's go.

Come on.

-Jamie?

Jamie?

Are you hiding from me?

Where are you?

Are you behind the couch?

No.

Are you in the pool?

No.

Are you under the table?

Boo!

There you are, silly.

Come out here.

What are you doing under there?

-Hiding.

-Hiding?

Why are you hiding?

-From you.

-From me?

Are you hungry?

-No.

-No.

Do you want to go to the park and sliding?

Let's go.

Here we go.

-So Mr. Waller, it says here on your resume

that you spent some time in France.

-Yes, sir.

-Really?

My son is over there studying right now.

He loves it.

-Well, let's just say I'm happy to be back home,

and I'm looking forward to getting my life started.

-Dean, your resume looks great.

You have all the qualities we're looking for in our company.

Unfortunately, we just don't have the resources

to add another staff member to our team right now.

-Wait, I'm confused.

I-- I thought you said everything looked great.

-I did, and it does.

We just can't hire someone else right now.

I'm sorry.

Maybe try again in a few months.

-Look, Mr. Hughes, I really need this job.

Please, if-- if there's anything, I can do,

just-- just give me a chance.

-I'm sorry, son.

We just don't need you right now.

-Go up really high.

What?

Yeah, classy.

Jamie (offscreen): Can we play with each other?

-No, sweetie.

Go play over there for a little bit, ok?

Jamie, I'll be right back, ok?

No, Derek, I don't care that you ran into her.

You didn't have to get coffee with her.

I don't-- I don't care if she paid.

You know how she feels about you.

No, I'm not acting crazy.

You're being insensitive to this situation.

I know.

I'm busy, but I can't babysit you and Jamie.

[Jamie screams]

-I know.

No.

Look, I have to go.

I'm busy.

No, this-- how-- this is a real job.

How can you say that?

I'm sorry, you flip burgers for a living.

I-- ugh, I can't handle this right now.

I have to go.

Jamie?

Jamie?

Jamie, come out!

Jamie!

Jamie, this isn't funny.

Jamie!

You know, Jamie, this isn't funny.

You have to come out right now.

Jamie!

Jamie, please!

Jamie!

-Here you go.

-Thank you.

-You're welcome.

-Ok.

Are you ready to order?

-Maybe in a couple minutes.

-Ok.

-Thank you.

-You're welcome.

-So what is this, uh, new book of yours all about?

You used to share this stuff with me.

-I don't know what it's about.

Neither does my publisher.

You know, these deals are all made on buzz anyways.

But it doesn't really matter what it is.

The check'll clear anyway.

-Well, I know you'll come up with something.

You always do.

That's why I married you.

-Yeah, but it's getting harder and harder

to put words on a page.

I know what I saw, and it's gotta become more of what I do.

-You're more than what you do, Mark.

-Yeah, not to the people who pay to come see me, I'm not.

-What about me?

I mean, I get free admission, and, um,

I love you no matter what you do.

-Yeah, well, you're different.

-Why is that?

-Because you really care about me.

-Exactly.

Now, look, Mark.

I-- you know, I know you believe in what you saw.

But maybe it's time to start believing in yourself now.

-Oh, they're gonna crucify me, Laura.

I mean, I'm gonna be the mockery of the whole community.

You know, people just don't change that rapidly.

I-- i-- I just don't know anymore.

-Well, we're in this together, and we will get through it.

Just try to remember why you call me you better 3/4, ok?

And now, I'm going to use the ladies' room,

and I'd appreciate it if you would get me a drink.

Thank you.

-So.

-I turned away for one second, and she was gone.

-Anyone else around?

-No.

She just disappeared.

-Well, we'll give you call if we need any more information.

-Is there anything else I can do?

-That'll be up to the family at this point.

-Ms. Davis--

-how could you!

-I am so sorry.

-I don't ever want to see your face again!

-Please, I just want to help.

-As far as I'm concerned, this is all your fault!

-I'm sorry.

I just want to help.

-No!

No!

No!

I trusted you with her, and now she's gone!

I don't ever want to see your face again!

-Hey.

Did you hear what happened?

-No.

-I lost Jamie.

-You are really awful at your job.

-No, seriously.

She's missing.

I don't know what to do.

Can you put the book down for one second

and listen to me, please?

I'm really lost, Derek.

-Oh, you're just losing everything today.

-You have got to be kidding me right now.

-Jenny, relax.

-No.

I feel so guilty, and I don't know who I can talk to.

-That's just real ironic, because this chapter right here

is all about guilt.

Maybe you should read this.

-Or maybe you should just be a good boyfriend

and be emotionally available to me just once.

-Sometimes, I just don't know how to deal with you.

-I lost a child!

-What do you want me to do?

How can I help you?

-I don't even know why I came here.

-I don't either.

I'm just a lowly burger-flipping guy.

-You're right.

My expectations are just way too high.

-Today, we have a very special guest, Dr. Mark Gavin.

He has graciously given us his time

to express his views on the existence of god.

Ladies and gentlemen, it is my honor

to present Dr. Mark Gavin.

-Thank you for having me here.

It's always a pleasure addressing the young people.

The future has to understand what it means to live in an age

where truth and reason can free mankind

from the straitjacket that's called religion.

Look, i-- I didn't come here tonight to tarnish your hopes.

But I did come here to ask you to open your eyes to the truth.

The truth begins with you by asking the right questions.

And the most burning question is, where is the proof?

Where is the evidence that god exists?

Can you imagine a world without god?

No theocracies, no holy wars?

Now, that is a world that I can believe in.

-I think we have our first question from the floor.

-Ok.

-Professor Gavin, why are you doing this?

If you're an atheist, why do you care?

-Well, the world needs to progress

without the fetters of myths and lies.

We need to take responsibility for ourselves

instead of offering it to some imaginary character.

-But why you?

-Robert Browning once said that truth never hurts the teller.

So I ask you.

If there is a god, and my message is so horrendous,

why is it that there is no thunder and lightning

bolt striking me?

-What if there really is a god?

-What if Santa is real?

Or better yet, the boogeyman?

I mean, the evidence is all around you.

We're-- we're evolutionary evidence.

But maybe you should ask your-- your priests or your preachers

or your mothers or fathers, or-- or better yet,

maybe you should ask yourself.

-You know what she means.

Answer the question.

Are you ready to face god if you're wrong?

-I would gladly face him and give him a piece of my mind.

[Applause]

-Dr. Gavin?

I-- I'm your biggest fan.

-Yeah?

So, uh, who do I make this out to?

-Claire doran.

That's, uh, d-o-r-a-n. It is good

to hear the voice of reason.

I have had so many arguments with my friends and family

about their blind faith, and you've definitely

given me a lot of material to work with.

Is everything ok?

-Yeah.

Everything's fine.

Say, can I ask you a question?

-Yeah.

-When you read my book, do you like how I'm writing it

or how I'm saying it?

I mean, even if you don't, like, particularly care

for the content?

-Well, I'm not in it for the poetry.

I'm more in it for, like, the science of it all.

You know, throw some knowledge on them.

-So you don't like the writing?

-No, it's just not what anybody reads the book for.

-There you go.

-Thanks.

I can't wait for the next one.

-Yeah, no pressure.

[Door closes]

-Hey, I heard what happened.

If you want to go look for the kid, we can right now.

-No, Jamie's mom doesn't want me to help,

and I have to respect that.

-Why?

-Because she hates me.

-She doesn't hate you, Jenny.

She's just hurting.

It's a lot to take in.

Hey, I saw Derek downtown.

-Ugh.

Uh-uh.

-What?

What did he do?

-He's just-- whatever.

He's not as awesome as I thought he was.

-You want me to kill him for you?

-No.

I want to put all the blame on him, but I can't.

-What's that?

-It's Jessica's.

-Is that that guy that goes around town

preaching about how there's no god?

-It's more than that.

-How's that working for you?

-It helps explain things better.

-What do you mean?

-There's no possible reason for a child to get kidnapped.

-So if you get rid of god, then things will be better?

-I wouldn't expect you to understand

what I'm going through.

-Hey, man.

What are you doing out here?

-Ah, I'm just taking a breather.

How's the party?

-It's all right.

-How you been, man?

-I been good.

-You, uh, you with annelise?

-Yeah.

-Yeah?

-Yeah.

-Hey, man.

-Hey, how's life?

-Aw, man.

My dad just won't leave me alone.

-Yeah?

Yeah, how's he taking the split?

-Ah, he's so pathetic.

I mean, mom took everything, but I just

gotta get out of that house.

-That sucks.

I'm sorry.

-Man, after what he's done to us,

i-- I can care less about him.

-Forget about him.

Worry about yourself.

-I'll drink to that.

-Yeah?

[Door slams]

-I've been worried sick.

Where have you been all night?

-Leave me alone!

-Gladly, once I feel you can actually take care of yourself.

-You know what?

I don't need to do this with you, man.

-Dean, what's going on?

-You want the truth?

-Of course I do.

-I'm scared.

I have no future.

And it's not like when you were my age.

My degree is a joke.

Everything they told me to do is a joke.

The economy's bad, and everyone's out of work.

-Dean--

-no!

See, you think you're helping me?

All you're doing is annoying me, telling me stuff about god.

Well, Mark Gavin's book opened my eyes.

I don't need god.

-I need god.

-That's 'cause you're weak!

You think I'm pathetic or something?

What's wrong with me?

-God sends hard times so we can find him.

Maybe all this trouble is-- is just his way

of getting you to come to him for help.

-Well, I don't want a god like that!

And neither did mom.

-Maybe you need to go to bed.

We'll talk about this tomorrow.

-Morning, sir.

-Morning.

-Sure is a lovely day.

-Yeah.

-Thank the lord it finally stopped raining this week.

-Yeah.

Well, let me ask you something.

You thanked the lord for something as simple

as the weather.

Do you really think that he's bothered?

-Now, that's a thought.

-Uh-huh.

-Well, I thank god for everything,

actually-- the rain, the food, and the breath in my lungs.

But especially the food.

-Well, I suppose that's fair.

-Well, that's it.

That's life.

-I don't think you'd really like any of my books.

-Oh, yeah?

Why is that?

-Because it's, uh, all about why we don't need god.

-Is that so?

-Yeah.

But look, it's kind of hard to explain it

to you unless you've read a few of them.

But I'll tell you what.

Here, I got a couple of tickets.

This is for Wednesday night.

I'm going to be giving a seminar over at the university.

-Hmm.

Well, thank you for your kindness.

But what I'd really like to do is talk to you about Jesus.

-Do you know who I am?

Groundskeeper (offscreen): Yes, sir.

-And you still want to talk to me about Jesus?

-Do you believe in god, Dr. Gavin?

-Boy, you really haven't read any of my books.

-Answer the question.

Do you believe in god?

-I think you should leave me alone right now.

-I'm moving on, sir.

-Thank you.

-But I can tell you're still not completely convinced.

-Ok.

For the sake of argument, what if I'm not?

-Because you've been playing a game where people souls were

at stake, and I don't think you would do that.

It's all about pride, Mark, the beginning of the fall.

You don't want to fall into that trap, do you?

God just wants us to let go, sacrifice the one thing

we hold dear to ourselves.

And that is ourselves.

-Well, it sounds like suicide.

-To those who haven't thought it out.

Be careful, doctor, or you'll be consumed by that lie you live.

-What lie?

-Just any lie.

Doesn't matter, really.

-Thank you.

You've been very helpful.

-For the record, I read your books-- skimmed, anyway.

Some folks can't be told.

-Then why bother?

-Because he loves you.

Everyone has a purpose.

You'll find yours, Dr. Gavin.

-You're too big.

-No, I'm not too big.

-Woohoo!

-Hey.

Where'd you go?

-The park.

I've been losing sleep.

I keep having nightmares.

-I gotta keep it real with you, 'cause

I think it's time you understand how this works.

What you've been going through, I see what it's doing to you.

And girl, you gotta get some help.

-I found help.

I'm reading all the help I can get.

-Jenns, look at me.

You're my best friend.

Please, let me help you.

-I keep thinking about Jamie, about Laurie.

I can't get them out of my head.

-I know.

But girl, you gotta stop blaming yourself.

-I think I'm gonna go lie down, try to get some sleep.

-All right.

-I don't mean to fight with you-- about god,

about anything.

I know you're just trying to help,

and I really appreciate it.

-I'm here for you.

You know that.

-Thanks.

-The time is near.

Wake up, people.

It's time to turn back to god.

Do not turn your backs on him.

He loves you.

He is coming back soon.

Wake up, people, before it's too late.

Well, if it isn't Mr. Atheist himself.

-You know, that was wonderful.

I really enjoy your passion.

But your delivery system?

It's probably doing you more harm than good.

-No.

People need to understand, especially the youth,

that-- that life is not forever.

Everyone will die.

And just because you're young now

and think you have the world by the tail

doesn't mean you can just abandon your creator.

-Carpe diem.

That's fantastic.

You know, don't you think though it's time that you stepped down

and just let people go on on their way?

-Step down?

You should be getting down on your knees,

begging god for forgiveness for what you've done.

-Look, I'm not going to debate you.

-There wouldn't even be a debate.

Your lifestyle, what you do, is deception.

-Look, I'm just trying to tell you

I don't think you have to be so forceful.

-What is this?

Are you trying to give me advice?

-Most debates are won with argumentative skills.

And to tell you the truth, I just don't think you have it.

-And you're trying to help me why?

-Look, uh, I don't like to go to war with an unarmed combatant.

You just-- you don't have a delivery system.

That's-- that's what I am.

That's what I do.

-Maybe it's your turn.

Maybe someday, god will speak to you.

Or would you rather enjoy your 30 pieces of silver?

Wake up, people, before it's too late.

God is coming.

His judgment cometh, it is written.

Won't you join me, people, in accepting who you are?

That we are sinners, one and all?

-Good afternoon.

-Hello.

-You're the girl that babysat that missing kid, right?

-Yeah.

What do you want to do, blame me too?

-I was only curious.

-I see what you do around here, talk to people like you care.

You're just some crazy Jesus freak.

-I've been called worse.

-Yeah, well, it's all for nothing.

I've been doing some reading.

-Mark Gavin.

-Wait, how did you know?

-Eh, I saw him.

He's in town.

Nice man.

-He's here?

Really?

-Yeah.

You should attend his event Wednesday.

-Wait, why are you telling me this?

-You just seem like the type of person

that would be interested.

-Well, what do you want?

-Nothing.

You just seemed sad, and I thought I would cheer you up.

-Well, stop.

-Your friend Mark gave me this ticket.

Big do that Wednesday.

Maybe it was meant for you all along.

-What's the catch?

-Catch?

-There's always a catch.

What is it?

-No catch here, other than maybe a cold.

-Yikes.

-What, not funny?

-Yeah.

Well, thanks for the ticket.

-You're welcome.

-Oh, it's worse than you think.

Everybody's scraping for their piece of the pie.

Sometimes, Gerry comes home and tells me

he doesn't know if he's in the energy business

or the lobbying business.

So how are you and Mark?

-We're doing ok, I guess.

-You guess?

-I think he's having second thoughts.

I think-- I think he wants to retire.

-Retire?

Why would he retire now?

-Because his heart's just not into it anymore.

-These men and their midlife crisis.

-No, I don't think so.

-Gerry pulled the same stunt last year.

I think he wanted to grow out his hair or live on the boat.

And I said that he could-- when I was dead

and all the children had been put through college.

-You're lucky.

I mean, I don't have kids to hang over his head like that.

-You just have to remind him-- behind every successful man

is a great woman.

And that will never change.

-He's changed.

-Laura?

Laura, you home?

Hey, I finally figured out what god wants me to do.

He showed me that I could be the devil's advocate,

and I could argue.

But of course, I'd have to be fair, and--

-Mark, I know what you're going through.

-You do?

-Yes, I do.

You're lost.

I can relate to that.

Everyone can.

And I think you can help people.

I do.

-See, I think I can help people too--

-take a look.

Just take a look at what we have created.

Who could've imagined that we could

have built all this from nothing?

-It was all built on lies, Laura.

That's why I can't do it anymore.

-Who said it was a lie, Mark?

Oh, did-- did god say it was a lie?

-No.

But you know what I saw.

-Ok, because you saw something, you know that he exists?

-Look, I don't have any proof.

-Oh, so you're not completely sure?

-Look, I have tried everything to believe in the--

-listen!

Until you are sure, absolutely sure of what

it is god is calling you to do, don't do it.

I know you're happy with your little private change of heart.

But that's how it's going to stay, Mark-- private.

If you do this, have you even thought of what would happen?

Are you really that selfish?

-Look, I'm not really sure what god has planned for me.

But I do know one thing.

He doesn't want me to lose my soul

-your soul is not at stake here, Mark!

I am at stake!

-You really want me to choose.

-You're a skeptic, Mark.

Act like it.

-Funny.

I'm starting my day out, and you're just wrapping yours up.

-Yeah.

Awkward.

-Hey, wanna go fishing?

-Absolutely not.

-Oh, come on.

It'll be fun.

-Not for me it won't.

We spend hours in that boat praying we'll catch something.

We never do.

-Chance for a little father-son bonding?

-We've had enough bonding as it is.

-Oh, no, we've had enough fighting as it is.

-No, dad, it's not fun for me.

All you do is talk about old movies

I've never heard of and Jesus.

I'll see you when you get back.

-Ah, I don't know.

I-- I think I may just skip it.

I-- I'm feeling kind of tired.

-You really ought to get out of the house.

Look, I'll-- I'll tell you what.

If you let me skip out on this one,

we can catch some dinner when you get home.

-Really?

-Promise.

-Ok.

See you around 7:00.

-Jamie?

-Hi, Jenny!

-Jamie!

Jamie, come here!

Jamie!

Jamie!

-I'll miss you.

-Jamie?

[Phone rings]

-Hello?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Home.

Why?

What?

Is he ok?

Mom, what happened?

[Door slams]

-Surprise, surprise, surprise.

-What, are we on break?

I knew I'd find you here.

-Well, I do work here.

-Well, I've, uh, I've got something to tell you.

-Oh, yeah?

What's that?

-You were wrong about me.

I know who I am, and you read me wrong.

-Did I?

-Yes.

-Then why do you care what a blue collar working

man like me thinks?

-Well, I, uh, I just don't want you talking to the media

or starting some rumors or something.

-Oh, of course, my media contacts.

The maintenance guy network.

Uh, we meet under the bridge.

Bring your own broom.

-Yeah, all right.

Look, I just want you to know that I know who I am.

I am Dr. Mark Gavin, and I'm a self-made man,

and-- and well-respected in this community.

-Wonderful.

-And I don't need your approval.

-You're probably right.

However, you can keep lying to me,

but you can't keep lying to yourself.

-I'm not lying.

-The moment will come when your integrity

will outweigh your fans' admiration.

-It's not gonna happen.

-Everything comes to light.

-My wife was right.

This is absurd.

I-- I probably imagined the whole thing.

-Your clock is ticking.

The roar of the crowd can only tide a man so long.

-I knew it was a mistake to come back here.

-Glad you came!

Getting kinda lonely around here.

-Excuse me, sir.

Last month, my daughter went missing, and nobody's seen her.

I put pictures over there and over--

[Music playing]

[Humming]

-Why the long face?

Well, I didn't mean to scare you away.

Ah, not much of a talker.

Hey, I gave a ticket to a young lady,

and it just perked her right up.

-Thanks.

-Hmm.

[Knock]

-Hey there, dwarf.

-Hey, uncle Morgan.

-How are you?

-I'm good. How are you?

-Good to see you.

Yeah, good.

Come on in. -Thanks.

-Sorry to hear what happened, kid.

-Thanks.

I actually came to ask for your help.

-Yeah?

With Derek?

I can call some guys.

-No.

You'll be happy to hear that we're

no longer on speaking terms

-i never want to give my opinion, but, uh, good.

-I was actually hoping to pass these fliers out

in all the surrounding areas, and you

have an advertising company.

-I didn't think Jamie's mom wanted

you to help out with the search effort.

-She doesn't.

I'm kinda doing this by myself.

-I understand.

Trying to find a child, they'd need all the help they can get.

-So you'll help pass it out?

-You got it.

-Cool.

Thank you.

What are you doing here?

-Look, Nikki said you were out here.

I just-- I wanted to come apologize.

-I don't want your apology.

-Look, I'm-- I'm sorry for the stuff that happened last time.

Like, I said some stuff I shouldn't have said.

You said some stuff you shouldn't have said.

It's just--

-no, I stand by everything that I said.

What you said was completely inconsiderate.

-Look, I'm-- I'm trying here.

-This is you trying?

I'm sorry, I just don't see us ever

going back to what we used to be.

The situation has changed.

-Look, you-- you obviously still care about my opinion.

I mean, you went out and bought the book.

-Ok.

Yeah, a book recommendation is the one positive thing

I got out of this.

And honestly, I don't see the purpose of-- of continuing.

We just don't have a future.

I'm sorry.

-Don't be like that.

Like, I came out here.

Like-- -no.

I'm sorry.

Do something, um, good with your life.

You a fan?

-Yeah, I guess.

-You ok?

-No, not really.

-Yeah, me neither.

It's sad to say, but I'm kind of glad I'm not alone.

-What?

-I don't mean to pry, but you look just as lost as I am.

-Ok.

Look, i-- I don't think I should be talking to anyone right now.

It's not a good time.

-What's wrong?

-My father just died, and it was all my fault.

-I'm sorry to hear that.

-He shouldn't have been driving with his eye condition.

He was in an accident.

-I'm so sorry.

You know those people you see on the news who

go through these unimaginable tragedies?

It's so awful and heart wrenching,

but it-- it'll never happen to you?

It-- it only happens to other people?

I am those other people.

I lost a little girl I was babysitting.

-Oh.

You-- you're you.

I saw you on the news.

-Yup, that's me.

-Well, you're famous.

-That book really helped.

-Oh, yeah.

It's great.

I mean, it makes so much sense.

Coincidences are just that.

They're coincidences.

It makes you feel so much better to--

to know that bad things that can happen to good people.

I mean, that way, you can expect--

my dad was good people.

We didn't agree very much, but he was a good guy.

And the only problem with Dr. Gavin

is he points out that when you lose someone you love,

you lose them forever.

-But he's right.

He's so right.

You can't just close your eyes to the world.

He just makes it make sense.

-No, yeah, yeah.

You know he's in town.

-That's what I heard.

-Yeah, I'm going to see his-- his new book.

-Yeah?

-Yeah.

-I have a ticket to that.

-Me too.

Maybe I'll-- maybe I'll see you there.

-Yeah, maybe.

-Oh, uh, I gotta go.

I-- I got a meeting with my mom, and, uh, it was-- it

was good meeting you.

-Likewise.

Hey, um, just in case.

[Music playing]

-Hey.

Don't forget it's your turn to do the dishes.

-I know.

So I think I'm gonna go to Mark Gavin's book thing tomorrow.

-Really?

-Yeah.

I haven't done anything fun for myself in a while.

It'll be like the first step.

I don't know.

I thought you'd be happy.

-Well, that really isn't my idea of a party.

But then again, what do I know?

-I actually met a guy who is also going.

-Ooh.

-He's really cool.

We actually have a lot in common.

-Oh, so you're both depressed?

-Yeah.

But that's not funny.

-Well, looks like god made two of them.

-I don't mean to sound ungrateful,

but I really need to do this for myself.

-Whatever you say.

-You could come with.

-You guys go ahead and have fun.

-Ok.

[Cheers and applause]

-Thank you.

Thank you all for coming.

Since the release of "we don't need god--"

[cheers]

---I have heard the voices of a new generation.

A new generation of young minds searching

for an answer, an answer to a question that

has cursed mankind since he first crawled out of the slime.

The debate has always been whether there

is or isn't a higher power.

But there is such a thing as coincidences.

Now, I'd like to take a moment to,

uh, get some feedback from the audience.

Uh, yes, you.

-Dr. Gavin, my name is Dean, and i-- I just

want to tell you that your book has-- it's really

helped me through some tough times.

I just recently lost my father in a car

accident off of highway 90.

And he considered himself to be a Christian.

He was always preaching to me about god.

-What did you say your name was?

-Dean.

-I was there.

I mean, i-- i-- I saw the wreck, and I stopped,

and i-- I pulled your dad out of the car.

He was really hurt badly.

And, well, I called 911, and he kept saying your name.

He thanked me for saving you.

Oh, I just can't do this anymore.

Look, i-- I'm sorry.

But I now know that god exists.

Look, I've seen him at work.

I've been in denial for so long.

I've had these visions--

[boos and jeers]

-I'm sorry!

Man (offscreen): Get out of here!

[Boos and jeers]

-Dr. Gavin!

-Look, I don't know what else to tell you.

-No, it's not that.

I just want to know more about my dad.

-He said what he said.

-Which was what, exactly?

-He said that I was gonna save you.

-From what?

You were gonna save me from what?

-Look, I think you know the answer.

You're just afraid to admit it.

-So you really believe in god?

Hey, Jenny, wait up!

I want to talk to you.

-I don't want to talk to anyone right now.

-I-- I was just talking to Dr. Gavin.

-Don't talk to me about Mark Gavin.

I believed in everything that man said.

He was the only thing holding me together

after everything that's happened.

-It-- it doesn't have to be like that.

-She's gone, and I have to accept that.

She's not coming back.

-You don't know that.

-I know that.

-No, you don't know.

-Yes, I do, Dean.

-Well, maybe-- maybe we can fix it.

-Oh?

How?

-I don't know.

Honestly, after all that's happened,

I need to reevaluate everything.

-Oh, so you believe in god now?

Is that it?

-I'm saying I need to reevaluate.

Look, after my father-- what he said, where he was-- I

can't just ignore that.

-A week ago, you would have said that was a coincidence.

-You're right, but things have changed.

-Not for me they haven't.

-Well, how did the event go?

-Could we talk for a second?

[Phone rings]

-Hello?

Yeah, this is her.

You did?

Oh, she does.

She looks exactly like the little girl in the picture?

Great, yeah.

Um, yeah.

Let me get your name.

And your phone number?

Ok, great.

Yeah, I will.

Thank you so much.

Bye bye.

Hi.

Yeah, I have a lead in the Jamie Davis case.

-Thanks, George.

A community thankful and relieved.

The disappearance of little jame Davis made headlines.

Well, reports are coming in that Jamie Davis has been found.

Now, Jamie's father actually kidnapped her

after losing a bitter custody dispute.

He stalked her for days, waiting for the perfect opportunity

to engineer what looked like negligence.

Luckily, a woman found one of the flyers on the ground

and spotted Jamie in a grocery store.

Just goes to show you.

Another happy reminder that one person can make a difference.

George, back to you.

-Hey!

I see she's still running.

-Hey!

-Hey.

I was just driving by.

I heard about Jamie.

-Yeah, it's really good news.

-Yeah.

We've been praying for her.

-Oh, uh, you go to church now?

I'm happy for you.

-Yeah, every other Wednesday.

Would you like to come?

-No, thank you.

-Well, why not?

-Just not interested.

-But Jamie's home now.

-Yeah.

She's back after all the hard work we did trying to find her.

-Are you serious?

-Yeah, Dean.

This isn't some kind of miracle.

-It's not every day that something like this happens.

They usually don't come home.

It's kind of a miracle.

-It's kind of her estranged father stalking us for two days

so he could kidnap his child.

-Really?

After all this?

After-- after god brings her home, after Mark Gavin's event,

you still don't believe?

-Yeah.

Especially after all that.

-God came knocking at your door, and you ignored it.

I did it wrong.

-Did what wrong?

-I feel like my dad.

I mean, he didn't do it right either,

but he was always there.

I was telling her what to do.

I was talking at her.

I don't know.

-We can't change people.

We can only change ourselves.

And through our actions, maybe they'll

decide to change as well.

We can all afford to change.

Nobody's perfect.

-Hello, everyone, and welcome to our show.

First up today, a change of heart.

The ever thought-provoking Dr. Mark Gavin

is my guest again today.

And Dr. Gavin, thank you so much for being on our show.

-Thanks for having me on this show again, frank.

-Now, Dr. Gavin, tell me-- and I know

I'm not the first to ask-- but why the change of heart?

-You know, they always say god has a plan.

I wanted to see the blueprint.

But then I realized that the plan is for each other.

I mean, when bad things happen, god just

doesn't appear with a magic wand and make it disappear.

The real question is, how open are we to letting god in?

I mean, you make the choice where you have the strength

to open your eyes when you walk on by.

My purpose was to be made an example of,

and it was hard to accept.

But nothing noble comes without sacrifice.

-Well, do you find that your former fans are coming around

to see it that way?

-Well, some are.

Some aren't.

I mean, I hope they're not just doing it because I said so.

I mean, that's no reason to base your belief on.

I can just try and share my story and hope they'll listen.

-But what about those who don't listen?

-Well, that just means that we have a lot of work to do.

[Music playing]