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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:07,333 --> 00:00:10,333 WOMAN: Natalie Wood falls into the category of an icon. 2 00:00:10,417 --> 00:00:11,917 NATASHA GREGSON WAGNER: By the age of 25, 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,417 my mom had been nominated for three Oscars. 4 00:00:14,583 --> 00:00:16,583 The focus on how she died 5 00:00:16,667 --> 00:00:18,792 has overshadowed her life's work. 6 00:00:19,291 --> 00:00:22,834 In a town where women were not always respected, 7 00:00:22,917 --> 00:00:23,917 she was an exception. 8 00:00:24,166 --> 00:00:26,250 She had a big heart and that showed up in her work. 9 00:00:26,333 --> 00:00:28,333 NATALIE WOOD: I've enjoyed the part where you act, 10 00:00:28,417 --> 00:00:31,000 not the stardom that follows it. 11 00:00:31,250 --> 00:00:33,041 ♪ (MUSIC OUTRO PLAYS) ♪ 12 00:00:41,750 --> 00:00:42,458 WOMAN: Almost overnight, 13 00:00:43,083 --> 00:00:45,750 23 cases were boxed up and it's like Wayne did that. 14 00:00:46,458 --> 00:00:50,333 Once Atlanta was provided an out, they took it. 15 00:00:50,417 --> 00:00:52,875 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 16 00:00:52,959 --> 00:00:55,166 MAN: There were so many things that just pointed directly 17 00:00:55,250 --> 00:00:56,458 at Wayne Williams. 18 00:00:56,834 --> 00:00:58,208 It was all fake math. 19 00:00:58,291 --> 00:01:00,500 And they presented it to the jury as hard fact. 20 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,542 Almost every key witness against Wayne Williams 21 00:01:03,625 --> 00:01:06,333 committed perjury or gave misleading testimony. 22 00:01:06,792 --> 00:01:09,875 How do you defend against what we did not know? 23 00:01:10,166 --> 00:01:14,000 WOMAN 2: Some of these children should not have been attributed 24 00:01:14,083 --> 00:01:15,250 to Wayne Williams. 25 00:01:15,458 --> 00:01:17,959 MAN: The person identified to police 26 00:01:18,041 --> 00:01:19,917 had a scar down his face. 27 00:01:20,125 --> 00:01:23,333 WOMAN 3: The investigators think that there was at least 28 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:25,125 one other killer. 29 00:01:26,041 --> 00:01:27,417 [TV static drones] 30 00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:29,667 [bright tone] 31 00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:40,125 ["Save Me" by Joan Armatrading playing] 32 00:01:40,208 --> 00:01:41,291 ♪ ♪ 33 00:01:41,375 --> 00:01:45,083 - ♪ Sinking ♪ 34 00:01:45,166 --> 00:01:49,875 ♪ Caught up in a whirling motion ♪ 35 00:01:49,959 --> 00:01:53,125 ♪ Such a strange sensation ♪ 36 00:01:53,208 --> 00:01:56,667 ♪ ♪ 37 00:01:56,750 --> 00:02:01,291 ♪ The currents uncertain ♪ 38 00:02:01,375 --> 00:02:05,125 ♪ Like sails of a mill, I spin ♪ 39 00:02:07,166 --> 00:02:10,125 ♪ Like wheels, I move in a circle ♪ 40 00:02:10,208 --> 00:02:13,125 ♪ While you stand ♪ 41 00:02:13,208 --> 00:02:16,125 ♪ On the bank ♪ 42 00:02:16,208 --> 00:02:21,000 ♪ Immune or evasive ♪ 43 00:02:21,083 --> 00:02:23,000 ♪ Throw me a lifeline ♪ 44 00:02:23,083 --> 00:02:26,375 ♪ Save me ♪ 45 00:02:27,542 --> 00:02:34,000 ♪ Save me ♪ 46 00:02:34,083 --> 00:02:36,917 - Everybody, please stand and join hands. 47 00:02:38,375 --> 00:02:39,792 - Father God, 48 00:02:39,875 --> 00:02:41,625 oh, I ask that you would bless 49 00:02:41,709 --> 00:02:44,208 each and every one that is here, Lord. 50 00:02:45,792 --> 00:02:49,834 Bless every parent, Lord, that lost a child, Lord. 51 00:02:49,917 --> 00:02:52,083 In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. 52 00:02:52,166 --> 00:02:53,291 all: Amen. 53 00:02:54,542 --> 00:02:56,458 - Yeah. [laughs] 54 00:02:56,542 --> 00:02:59,959 - I stayed with the mothers for a long time. 55 00:03:00,041 --> 00:03:01,208 - Oh, we gonna get started, 56 00:03:01,291 --> 00:03:03,792 and y'all gonna have a chance to tell y'all's story, okay? 57 00:03:03,875 --> 00:03:05,000 - All right. 58 00:03:05,083 --> 00:03:06,500 - Bless you. - Bless you. 59 00:03:06,583 --> 00:03:08,291 We had a little group going on 60 00:03:08,375 --> 00:03:10,333 till about '85. 61 00:03:10,417 --> 00:03:12,333 This lady called Mildred Glover, 62 00:03:12,417 --> 00:03:15,959 we would go to her house every Saturday. 63 00:03:16,041 --> 00:03:18,667 She helped us through a whole lot. 64 00:03:18,750 --> 00:03:20,500 [somber music] 65 00:03:20,583 --> 00:03:23,458 - It was very important that we all stick together 66 00:03:23,542 --> 00:03:24,834 as a group, 67 00:03:24,917 --> 00:03:26,875 the ones that were still alive. 68 00:03:26,959 --> 00:03:28,500 ♪ ♪ 69 00:03:28,583 --> 00:03:31,125 I came in with a 35-millimeter camera 70 00:03:31,208 --> 00:03:34,041 and just started shooting pictures. 71 00:03:34,125 --> 00:03:38,542 ♪ ♪ 72 00:03:38,625 --> 00:03:41,917 - I remember I was at Miss Mildred Glover's. 73 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,417 While a handful of parents and Miss Glover 74 00:03:44,500 --> 00:03:46,709 was talking in the home, 75 00:03:46,792 --> 00:03:48,750 me as a child, I'm on the porch, 76 00:03:48,834 --> 00:03:50,375 playing around. 77 00:03:50,458 --> 00:03:52,709 This blue car pulls up. 78 00:03:52,792 --> 00:03:56,250 This guy, tall white guy, 79 00:03:56,333 --> 00:03:57,667 took a brick, 80 00:03:57,750 --> 00:03:59,667 and he slung it through that window, 81 00:03:59,750 --> 00:04:03,375 and I remember Miss Glover's husband 82 00:04:03,458 --> 00:04:05,083 come running out of the door 83 00:04:05,166 --> 00:04:06,875 and asked me, "Ron, what'd you do?" 84 00:04:06,959 --> 00:04:08,667 I said, "I ain't do anything, Mr. Bill. 85 00:04:08,750 --> 00:04:09,875 That man did it." 86 00:04:09,959 --> 00:04:11,917 And he jumps in his car, 87 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,625 and he turns around, 88 00:04:13,709 --> 00:04:17,625 and he did a gesture like that out of the window. 89 00:04:17,709 --> 00:04:21,208 ♪ ♪ 90 00:04:21,291 --> 00:04:23,417 That brick had a note on it. 91 00:04:23,500 --> 00:04:26,542 It said, "We gonna kill all you niggers." 92 00:04:26,625 --> 00:04:28,375 That's what that note said. 93 00:04:28,458 --> 00:04:30,333 "We gonna kill all you niggers." 94 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,041 I'll never forget that day. 95 00:04:34,125 --> 00:04:36,875 ♪ ♪ 96 00:04:36,959 --> 00:04:39,750 - All these strange things happen 97 00:04:39,834 --> 00:04:42,375 related to the case. 98 00:04:42,458 --> 00:04:44,375 Wayne was in jail... 99 00:04:44,458 --> 00:04:47,542 might've been a couple of years. 100 00:04:47,625 --> 00:04:51,583 And I'd been working to get the next appeal ready 101 00:04:51,667 --> 00:04:54,417 when something new come into the mix. 102 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:56,625 [suspenseful music] 103 00:04:56,709 --> 00:04:59,750 So my offices was on Ralph McGill. 104 00:04:59,834 --> 00:05:03,875 I remember coming up on my doorstep, 105 00:05:03,959 --> 00:05:05,625 there was a package 106 00:05:05,709 --> 00:05:08,166 that was left for me. 107 00:05:08,250 --> 00:05:11,917 I don't know who brought it. 108 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,834 Maybe I do know who brought it, but I can't say. 109 00:05:14,917 --> 00:05:19,166 [laughs] But man, it was incredible. 110 00:05:19,250 --> 00:05:22,500 ♪ ♪ 111 00:05:22,583 --> 00:05:25,458 There was page after page. 112 00:05:25,542 --> 00:05:28,834 Some of it was hand-written longhand. 113 00:05:28,917 --> 00:05:30,792 Some of it was typed up. 114 00:05:30,875 --> 00:05:35,458 Every bit of it was about an undercover investigation 115 00:05:35,542 --> 00:05:38,375 which took place in early '81. 116 00:05:38,458 --> 00:05:40,166 ♪ ♪ 117 00:05:40,250 --> 00:05:42,000 - The Georgia Bureau of Investigation 118 00:05:42,083 --> 00:05:46,500 had opened up an entire investigation 119 00:05:46,583 --> 00:05:50,542 focusing on Ku Klux Klan involvement in the killings. 120 00:05:50,625 --> 00:05:54,166 ♪ ♪ 121 00:05:54,250 --> 00:05:56,667 It had been kept completely secret, 122 00:05:56,750 --> 00:05:59,000 and indeed, separate and apart from 123 00:05:59,083 --> 00:06:01,458 the task force that was investigating the murders, 124 00:06:01,542 --> 00:06:03,417 separate from the prosecuting authorities. 125 00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:06,458 That evidence had never been presented 126 00:06:06,542 --> 00:06:08,500 to the defense at any time. 127 00:06:08,583 --> 00:06:10,208 - I was excited, man. 128 00:06:10,291 --> 00:06:13,208 I was excited because I thought these files, 129 00:06:13,291 --> 00:06:14,959 the anonymous package, 130 00:06:15,041 --> 00:06:20,375 was overwhelming violation of the Brady Law. 131 00:06:20,458 --> 00:06:21,875 - The United States Supreme Court, 132 00:06:21,959 --> 00:06:24,792 in a case called Brady versus Maryland, 133 00:06:24,875 --> 00:06:27,583 held that the prosecution is required 134 00:06:27,667 --> 00:06:29,375 to provide to the defense 135 00:06:29,458 --> 00:06:31,542 any and all evidence 136 00:06:31,625 --> 00:06:36,875 that tends to exonerate or exculpate a defendant. 137 00:06:36,959 --> 00:06:39,208 Because the prosecution and the police 138 00:06:39,291 --> 00:06:42,041 tend to have the ability to collect far more evidence 139 00:06:42,125 --> 00:06:43,542 than the defense does, 140 00:06:43,625 --> 00:06:45,041 they have to disclose it. 141 00:06:45,125 --> 00:06:48,208 In this case, they didn't do it. 142 00:06:48,291 --> 00:06:51,500 - It was a no-brainer that this would give Wayne 143 00:06:51,583 --> 00:06:53,375 a new trial. 144 00:06:53,458 --> 00:06:55,542 - Wayne Williams is being represented 145 00:06:55,625 --> 00:06:57,083 in this hearing for a new trial 146 00:06:57,166 --> 00:06:59,542 by his former attorney, Lynn Whatley, 147 00:06:59,625 --> 00:07:02,458 and two of this country's most prominent attorneys, 148 00:07:02,542 --> 00:07:04,875 Bobby Lee Cook of Summerville, Georgia, 149 00:07:04,959 --> 00:07:07,583 and William Kunstler of New York. 150 00:07:07,667 --> 00:07:10,250 - I'm here in my antiquity, 151 00:07:10,333 --> 00:07:12,750 hoping to do some good in the world. 152 00:07:12,834 --> 00:07:15,458 - I had always admired William Kunstler, 153 00:07:15,542 --> 00:07:17,959 even as a very young person. 154 00:07:18,041 --> 00:07:20,458 I watched his work in the Chicago Eight, 155 00:07:20,542 --> 00:07:23,291 which later became the Chicago Seven trial. 156 00:07:23,375 --> 00:07:24,417 He fought the House 157 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:26,917 of Un-American Activities Committee. 158 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,291 He represented Dr. King. 159 00:07:28,375 --> 00:07:30,041 He represented the Black Panthers, 160 00:07:30,125 --> 00:07:32,417 the anti-war movement, the American Indian movement, 161 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:33,709 and it's like, "Wow. 162 00:07:33,792 --> 00:07:36,250 That's who I want to be when I grow up." 163 00:07:36,333 --> 00:07:38,417 - Civil rights specialist William Kunstler 164 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:40,625 and Harvard Law School's Alan Dershowitz say 165 00:07:40,709 --> 00:07:42,625 they have proof that police withheld evidence 166 00:07:42,709 --> 00:07:44,667 of a possible Ku Klux Klan suspect 167 00:07:44,750 --> 00:07:45,792 out of fear. 168 00:07:45,875 --> 00:07:47,125 - We're asking to have an opportunity 169 00:07:47,208 --> 00:07:48,458 to see all the files. 170 00:07:48,542 --> 00:07:50,166 Let's have a fair fight. 171 00:07:50,250 --> 00:07:52,542 Let's have a true scientific test, 172 00:07:52,625 --> 00:07:55,166 and let the chips fall where they may 173 00:07:55,250 --> 00:07:56,959 without any loaded dice. 174 00:07:57,041 --> 00:08:01,792 - And, of course, we had the amazing Bobby Lee Cook. 175 00:08:01,875 --> 00:08:04,792 He was already a legendary figure 176 00:08:04,875 --> 00:08:06,834 in Georgia legal circles. 177 00:08:06,917 --> 00:08:11,834 ♪ ♪ 178 00:08:11,917 --> 00:08:13,792 - There's no other way to talk about Bobby Lee Cook 179 00:08:13,875 --> 00:08:15,458 other than brilliant. 180 00:08:15,542 --> 00:08:18,000 They say the "Matlock" television series 181 00:08:18,083 --> 00:08:20,083 was based on Bobby Lee Cook. 182 00:08:20,166 --> 00:08:22,959 - We've heard some pretty confusing testimony 183 00:08:23,041 --> 00:08:23,959 around here lately. 184 00:08:24,041 --> 00:08:26,166 First, Lucas perjures himself, 185 00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:27,834 and then your wife perjures herself. 186 00:08:27,917 --> 00:08:29,125 What's going on? 187 00:08:29,208 --> 00:08:30,834 ♪ ♪ 188 00:08:30,917 --> 00:08:35,000 - So we had a pretty all-star team. 189 00:08:35,083 --> 00:08:38,375 The hearings were down in Butts County, 190 00:08:38,458 --> 00:08:41,166 about an hour outside of Atlanta. 191 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:44,291 That's where the electric chair is, 192 00:08:44,375 --> 00:08:45,709 down there, Butts County. 193 00:08:45,792 --> 00:08:52,750 ♪ ♪ 194 00:08:52,834 --> 00:08:57,500 The hearings are set in this old courtroom. 195 00:08:57,583 --> 00:09:00,500 The press was there. 196 00:09:00,583 --> 00:09:02,375 The courtroom was full, 197 00:09:02,458 --> 00:09:06,458 and it played itself out pretty big. 198 00:09:16,250 --> 00:09:18,583 - You ladies and gentlemen ready to proceed now? 199 00:09:18,667 --> 00:09:20,792 - Yes, we are. 200 00:09:20,875 --> 00:09:23,041 Judge, we'd like to begin this proceeding 201 00:09:23,125 --> 00:09:25,542 with a short overview. 202 00:09:25,625 --> 00:09:30,333 We will present a plethora of undisclosed documents 203 00:09:30,417 --> 00:09:32,208 and evidence that we have collected 204 00:09:32,291 --> 00:09:35,583 since the trial. 205 00:09:35,667 --> 00:09:39,417 We do expect to show that Williams, in fact, 206 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:41,750 was denied his constitutional rights 207 00:09:41,834 --> 00:09:44,750 in a very abundant fashion. 208 00:09:44,834 --> 00:09:46,959 - The first witness today, Billy Joe Whitaker, 209 00:09:47,041 --> 00:09:49,291 says he worked as a police informant 210 00:09:49,375 --> 00:09:51,959 during the missing and murdered investigation. 211 00:09:52,041 --> 00:09:53,583 - Why did you come to see me? 212 00:09:53,667 --> 00:09:55,250 I believe you called me, did you not? 213 00:09:55,333 --> 00:09:58,333 - Yes, sir. - And why did you do that? 214 00:09:58,417 --> 00:09:59,917 - I figured, "Well, 215 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,583 "here's a man in a penitentiary, 216 00:10:01,667 --> 00:10:03,250 "been there eight or ten years, 217 00:10:03,333 --> 00:10:05,250 "and I know he's not guilty of what-- 218 00:10:05,333 --> 00:10:06,792 the ones they convicted him of." 219 00:10:06,875 --> 00:10:07,917 He might've killed the rest of them. 220 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,250 I don't know about that. 221 00:10:09,333 --> 00:10:11,083 But I knew in my own mind, 222 00:10:11,166 --> 00:10:13,291 and the GBI knew it, that this man didn't-- 223 00:10:13,375 --> 00:10:15,917 he didn't kill those two people. 224 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,291 - That's the reason you came to me? 225 00:10:17,375 --> 00:10:19,125 - Yes, sir. 226 00:10:19,208 --> 00:10:20,917 - Billy Whitaker 227 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,208 was a confidential informant 228 00:10:23,291 --> 00:10:25,375 who had infiltrated the Klan. 229 00:10:25,458 --> 00:10:26,917 - Hail victory. 230 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,583 all: Hail victory! 231 00:10:28,667 --> 00:10:29,583 - Hail victory. 232 00:10:29,667 --> 00:10:31,000 all: Hail victory! 233 00:10:31,083 --> 00:10:34,667 - The first I heard of potential Klan involvement 234 00:10:34,750 --> 00:10:37,125 was a detective with Atlanta 235 00:10:37,208 --> 00:10:39,083 named Aubrey Melton. 236 00:10:39,166 --> 00:10:41,750 ♪ ♪ 237 00:10:41,834 --> 00:10:44,458 Melton came forward to the GBI 238 00:10:44,542 --> 00:10:46,792 with a confidential informant. 239 00:10:46,875 --> 00:10:49,333 Melton was a good street cop, 240 00:10:49,417 --> 00:10:50,917 but we had the capacity 241 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,000 to bring more resources to the table. 242 00:10:54,083 --> 00:10:58,333 We took the informant's information very seriously. 243 00:10:58,417 --> 00:11:00,375 My boss detached me 244 00:11:00,458 --> 00:11:03,792 to head up the Klan investigation. 245 00:11:03,875 --> 00:11:06,750 [marchers chanting] 246 00:11:06,834 --> 00:11:08,000 The Klan was engaged 247 00:11:08,083 --> 00:11:10,667 in a lot of activity at the time. 248 00:11:10,750 --> 00:11:12,875 They were marching on weekends, 249 00:11:12,959 --> 00:11:14,917 and they were very disruptive. 250 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,458 [marchers chanting] 251 00:11:16,542 --> 00:11:18,709 The Klan clearly had 252 00:11:18,792 --> 00:11:21,041 every right to march and protest... 253 00:11:21,125 --> 00:11:22,709 - Go home, nigger! 254 00:11:22,792 --> 00:11:25,000 - But when you enter criminal activity, 255 00:11:25,083 --> 00:11:26,625 they crossed the line 256 00:11:26,709 --> 00:11:28,709 to bring our attention to them. 257 00:11:28,792 --> 00:11:30,333 ♪ ♪ 258 00:11:30,417 --> 00:11:34,000 - The GBI investigation focuses on the Sanders family. 259 00:11:34,083 --> 00:11:35,166 There are six brothers, 260 00:11:35,250 --> 00:11:36,542 and the Sanders brothers are involved 261 00:11:36,625 --> 00:11:38,291 in an offshoot of the Klan 262 00:11:38,375 --> 00:11:40,166 called the National States' Rights Party, 263 00:11:40,250 --> 00:11:41,667 or the NSRP. 264 00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:44,542 It was initially founded by J.B. Stoner. 265 00:11:44,625 --> 00:11:47,333 - Only way Forsyth County can have law and order 266 00:11:47,417 --> 00:11:48,625 and peace and tranquility... 267 00:11:48,709 --> 00:11:50,208 both: Is keep the niggers out. 268 00:11:50,291 --> 00:11:52,417 - And they basically said the KKK 269 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:53,709 were not radical enough. 270 00:11:53,792 --> 00:11:55,583 One of their earliest recruits 271 00:11:55,667 --> 00:11:58,000 was Joseph Paul Franklin, 272 00:11:58,083 --> 00:12:00,792 who was going around the country 273 00:12:00,875 --> 00:12:04,750 shooting any integrated couple that he saw. 274 00:12:04,834 --> 00:12:06,750 So that's just--you know, give you some idea 275 00:12:06,834 --> 00:12:08,375 about the NSRP. 276 00:12:08,458 --> 00:12:10,875 - White power! all: White power! 277 00:12:10,959 --> 00:12:12,750 - One of their chief officers 278 00:12:12,834 --> 00:12:14,750 was Donald Willard Sanders. 279 00:12:16,041 --> 00:12:17,792 He's a third-ranking officer 280 00:12:17,875 --> 00:12:19,208 under J.B. Stoner 281 00:12:19,291 --> 00:12:21,333 [foreboding music] 282 00:12:21,417 --> 00:12:22,709 He was one of the six brothers 283 00:12:22,792 --> 00:12:24,083 in the Sanders clan. 284 00:12:24,166 --> 00:12:25,709 ♪ ♪ 285 00:12:25,792 --> 00:12:27,375 They were notorious drug addicts. 286 00:12:27,458 --> 00:12:28,750 I mean, they shot every drug in the book, 287 00:12:28,834 --> 00:12:31,959 and they sold every drug in the book. 288 00:12:32,041 --> 00:12:34,083 The main suspects were the older brothers, 289 00:12:34,166 --> 00:12:36,625 Don Sanders, Jerry Sanders, 290 00:12:36,709 --> 00:12:38,208 and Charles Sanders. 291 00:12:38,291 --> 00:12:39,750 ♪ ♪ 292 00:12:39,834 --> 00:12:42,792 - How long had you known Charles T. Sanders? 293 00:12:42,875 --> 00:12:44,834 - Well, at that time, I'd probably known him 294 00:12:44,917 --> 00:12:46,250 ten years. 295 00:12:46,333 --> 00:12:48,208 Charles said-- 296 00:12:48,291 --> 00:12:50,875 he was always trying to get me to join the Klan, you know, 297 00:12:50,959 --> 00:12:53,250 and... 298 00:12:53,333 --> 00:12:56,542 they said they had a lot of money behind them, 299 00:12:56,625 --> 00:12:58,083 people I didn't know, 300 00:12:58,166 --> 00:13:01,792 and people even he didn't know, he said. 301 00:13:01,875 --> 00:13:03,709 Charles took me downstairs 302 00:13:03,792 --> 00:13:05,417 in the garage. 303 00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:07,417 They had bazookas, they had-- 304 00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:08,583 - Bazookas? 305 00:13:08,667 --> 00:13:09,792 - Bazookas, yeah. 306 00:13:09,875 --> 00:13:11,667 They had hand grenades. 307 00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:14,291 They had C-2 and C-4 explosives. 308 00:13:14,375 --> 00:13:16,166 Well, they had police uniforms, 309 00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:18,458 Atlanta police uniforms. They had... 310 00:13:18,542 --> 00:13:20,959 - The Sanders brothers had all these different uniforms. 311 00:13:21,041 --> 00:13:22,542 - Had DeKalb County uniform. 312 00:13:22,625 --> 00:13:24,792 - Coca-Cola, Purolator. 313 00:13:24,875 --> 00:13:27,291 - They had sanitation uniforms. 314 00:13:27,375 --> 00:13:30,125 - So maybe this let them be in certain places undetected. 315 00:13:30,208 --> 00:13:31,959 [suspenseful music] 316 00:13:32,041 --> 00:13:34,291 - One of the theories was that the perpetrator 317 00:13:34,375 --> 00:13:35,917 had to be somebody that was gonna 318 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,500 walk around that neighborhood 319 00:13:37,583 --> 00:13:38,750 almost invisible, 320 00:13:38,834 --> 00:13:39,917 so like a postman 321 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,291 or a police officer. 322 00:13:41,375 --> 00:13:44,000 ♪ ♪ 323 00:13:44,083 --> 00:13:45,792 - It's possible that these children 324 00:13:45,875 --> 00:13:48,000 are being captured by the Klan 325 00:13:48,083 --> 00:13:50,625 dressed in law enforcement uniforms. 326 00:13:50,709 --> 00:13:52,291 - You know, everybody, everything evolves, 327 00:13:52,375 --> 00:13:53,625 and the Klan had evolved. 328 00:13:53,709 --> 00:13:58,000 They had this idea where we're going to start a race war. 329 00:13:58,083 --> 00:14:00,667 - We're convinced that there's a race war 330 00:14:00,750 --> 00:14:03,417 that is inevitable in this country. 331 00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:06,083 We feel that there will be so much shooting 332 00:14:06,166 --> 00:14:07,625 and burning and looting and rioting 333 00:14:07,709 --> 00:14:09,291 that literally, the authorities 334 00:14:09,375 --> 00:14:11,750 will not be able to cope with it. 335 00:14:11,834 --> 00:14:13,250 - So what will Klansmen do? 336 00:14:13,333 --> 00:14:15,500 - Well, we're gonna defend ourselves and our property 337 00:14:15,583 --> 00:14:19,333 and help assist other people in doing the same. 338 00:14:19,417 --> 00:14:22,625 - At the time, there was a lot of uncertainty 339 00:14:22,709 --> 00:14:25,166 about who was going to control the political structure, 340 00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:27,834 who was going to control the economic resources, 341 00:14:27,917 --> 00:14:30,041 and the Klan was empowered. 342 00:14:30,125 --> 00:14:32,667 They were making their presence felt. 343 00:14:32,750 --> 00:14:34,834 - It was like this was a plan 344 00:14:34,917 --> 00:14:39,583 to diminish Atlanta's and Maynard Jackson's success. 345 00:14:39,667 --> 00:14:41,375 ♪ ♪ 346 00:14:41,458 --> 00:14:43,959 - These were not people who were simply 347 00:14:44,041 --> 00:14:47,208 play-acting at being bad guys. 348 00:14:47,291 --> 00:14:50,875 And so Aubrey Melton persuaded 349 00:14:50,959 --> 00:14:55,417 the GBI to apply for wiretap warrants, 350 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:57,917 which can only be made on the showing 351 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,917 of probable cause to believe the people involved 352 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,875 had committed a crime, 353 00:15:02,959 --> 00:15:04,542 in this case, the child murders. 354 00:15:04,625 --> 00:15:06,542 - They wanted me to wear a bug. 355 00:15:06,625 --> 00:15:08,375 - Did you agree to that? 356 00:15:08,458 --> 00:15:09,917 - I didn't care what they did. You know, I was trying-- 357 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,375 - You agreed to it. - I was trying to help them 358 00:15:11,458 --> 00:15:12,917 catch the people doing that. 359 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,375 - How did they wire you up? 360 00:15:15,458 --> 00:15:17,667 - They just put it on me and taped it around me. 361 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:19,917 - While the wiretap was in progress, 362 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,291 we also conducted physical surveillance. 363 00:15:22,375 --> 00:15:24,667 [machine clicking] 364 00:15:25,458 --> 00:15:28,542 - There were, to the best of your knowledge, 365 00:15:28,625 --> 00:15:30,750 dozens, if not hundreds, of those tapes. 366 00:15:30,834 --> 00:15:31,917 Isn't that right? 367 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,792 - There were several 368 00:15:33,875 --> 00:15:36,417 reel-to-reel tapes made. 369 00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:39,417 When you monitor, you monitor 24/7, 370 00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:41,542 from when they get up to when they go to bed, 371 00:15:41,625 --> 00:15:45,875 hours and hours, days and days of tapes. 372 00:15:45,959 --> 00:15:48,917 - Was there ever any conversation that you had 373 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,709 that was recorded 374 00:15:50,792 --> 00:15:54,041 with reference to what Charles Sanders 375 00:15:54,125 --> 00:15:57,917 and his group were doing with children? 376 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,834 - They was killing niggers. That's what he said. 377 00:16:00,917 --> 00:16:02,333 He told me, "We're killing niggers. 378 00:16:02,417 --> 00:16:04,625 We're gonna start killing females too." 379 00:16:04,709 --> 00:16:07,625 [disquieting music] 380 00:16:07,709 --> 00:16:08,959 ♪ ♪ 381 00:16:09,041 --> 00:16:11,083 He said, "We killed a lot of these fucking niggers." 382 00:16:11,166 --> 00:16:18,166 ♪ ♪ 383 00:16:21,166 --> 00:16:25,125 - When a man is charged with the killing of 29 people, 384 00:16:25,208 --> 00:16:27,291 and they charge him for two, 385 00:16:27,375 --> 00:16:29,375 there's a lot of unanswered questions. 386 00:16:30,333 --> 00:16:31,834 - Like what? 387 00:16:31,917 --> 00:16:35,208 - Like what happened to the other 27? 388 00:16:35,291 --> 00:16:38,125 There was 29. He was convicted on 2. 389 00:16:38,208 --> 00:16:39,583 - [coughs] 390 00:16:39,667 --> 00:16:40,625 - I'd be interested to know what happened-- 391 00:16:40,709 --> 00:16:42,166 - John, you ain't rolling that, are you? 392 00:16:42,250 --> 00:16:43,291 - Hmm? - Yes. 393 00:16:43,375 --> 00:16:44,542 - You're not rolling this, are you? 394 00:16:44,625 --> 00:16:45,625 - Yes. - I'm rolling. 395 00:16:46,917 --> 00:16:50,000 - I would think there's a lot of unanswered questions. 396 00:16:50,083 --> 00:16:51,834 You don't? I mean... 397 00:16:51,917 --> 00:16:55,417 there's 27 unsolved mysteries out there. 398 00:17:03,625 --> 00:17:07,709 And your name is surfacing 399 00:17:07,792 --> 00:17:10,667 in connection with... 400 00:17:10,750 --> 00:17:13,750 [paper rustling] 401 00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:18,417 In connection with this quote that... 402 00:17:20,542 --> 00:17:22,166 "Yeah, we damn sure did. 403 00:17:22,250 --> 00:17:24,458 We killed a lot of them niggers." 404 00:17:29,458 --> 00:17:30,542 - That's a blatant lie. 405 00:17:30,625 --> 00:17:34,000 That's a blatant lie from Mr. Bill Whitaker, 406 00:17:34,083 --> 00:17:37,625 and that's a blatant lie from the defense. 407 00:17:41,083 --> 00:17:43,917 - You reported all of this to Mr. Melton. 408 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,375 - Well, I told him I knew about-- 409 00:17:47,458 --> 00:17:49,041 about one of those kids getting killed, 410 00:17:49,125 --> 00:17:50,542 who it was that did it, 411 00:17:50,625 --> 00:17:53,375 and he had told me he was gonna do it, 412 00:17:53,458 --> 00:17:54,959 and it happened. 413 00:17:55,041 --> 00:17:56,750 I read it in the paper, so I called Melton. 414 00:17:56,834 --> 00:17:58,500 - All right. What'd you tell Mr. Melton? 415 00:17:58,583 --> 00:18:00,834 - Well, I told him that I believed Charles Sanders 416 00:18:00,917 --> 00:18:02,500 of the Ku Klux Klan 417 00:18:02,583 --> 00:18:05,166 killed this one kid named Geter. 418 00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:07,208 This little kid run into his van. 419 00:18:07,291 --> 00:18:08,250 - What little kid? 420 00:18:08,333 --> 00:18:10,917 - Geter, on a go-cart. 421 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,083 He lost control of it, 422 00:18:12,166 --> 00:18:14,250 and he run into the side of that van. 423 00:18:14,333 --> 00:18:16,959 - Geter ran into Sanders's car with the go-cart? 424 00:18:17,041 --> 00:18:19,375 - Yeah, and he said, "I'm gonna"-- 425 00:18:19,458 --> 00:18:21,458 well, I don't want to say that. - Use the words that he said. 426 00:18:21,542 --> 00:18:24,083 This is a court, court of law, 427 00:18:24,166 --> 00:18:26,875 and use the words that he said. 428 00:18:28,166 --> 00:18:29,291 - Well, you got ladies in here. 429 00:18:29,375 --> 00:18:32,083 - That's all right. You go ahead. 430 00:18:32,166 --> 00:18:33,125 - Well, he said, "I'm gonna kill 431 00:18:33,208 --> 00:18:34,458 "that little black bastard, 432 00:18:34,542 --> 00:18:36,125 "and I'm gonna choke him to death with my dick 433 00:18:36,208 --> 00:18:38,041 and put him on Martin Luther King's grave." 434 00:18:39,667 --> 00:18:41,875 - You reported all of this to Mr. Melton. 435 00:18:41,959 --> 00:18:43,583 - To Melton, yeah. 436 00:18:43,667 --> 00:18:47,000 - Whitaker was able to link one of the Sanders 437 00:18:47,083 --> 00:18:49,125 to the case of Lubie Geter, 438 00:18:49,208 --> 00:18:51,458 whose death was ultimately used 439 00:18:51,542 --> 00:18:53,291 against Wayne Williams 440 00:18:53,375 --> 00:18:56,250 as one of the ten pattern cases. 441 00:18:57,375 --> 00:19:00,041 That's significant, because that actually ties 442 00:19:00,125 --> 00:19:01,583 a member of the Klan 443 00:19:01,667 --> 00:19:04,458 directly to one of the children 444 00:19:04,542 --> 00:19:07,291 that Wayne was credited with murdering. 445 00:19:07,375 --> 00:19:10,333 [somber music] 446 00:19:10,417 --> 00:19:11,625 ♪ ♪ 447 00:19:11,709 --> 00:19:14,458 - I had known Lubie probably from the sixth grade. 448 00:19:14,542 --> 00:19:17,333 Lubie and I were friends and classmates. 449 00:19:17,417 --> 00:19:18,500 He was a good kid. 450 00:19:18,583 --> 00:19:19,834 You know, he got in trouble like I did in school 451 00:19:19,917 --> 00:19:21,250 a few times, 452 00:19:21,333 --> 00:19:22,375 talking in class, 453 00:19:22,458 --> 00:19:23,792 maybe talking back to teachers here and there, 454 00:19:23,875 --> 00:19:26,125 but normal, fun, loving kid. 455 00:19:26,208 --> 00:19:28,875 ♪ ♪ 456 00:19:28,959 --> 00:19:30,834 He was one of the few kids in our community 457 00:19:30,917 --> 00:19:33,792 that still had both parents active in his life. 458 00:19:33,875 --> 00:19:35,834 ♪ ♪ 459 00:19:35,917 --> 00:19:38,166 I remember, like, before Christmas break, 460 00:19:38,250 --> 00:19:39,333 Lubie was talking to us. 461 00:19:39,417 --> 00:19:41,417 He was telling us about these car care product 462 00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:43,166 that he was selling. 463 00:19:43,250 --> 00:19:45,166 But close to when school opened back up again 464 00:19:45,250 --> 00:19:46,667 after the Christmas break, 465 00:19:46,750 --> 00:19:49,542 we saw on the news that Lubie was missing. 466 00:19:49,625 --> 00:19:51,458 - 14-year-old Lubie Geter 467 00:19:51,542 --> 00:19:53,834 went to a South Side Atlanta shopping center 468 00:19:53,917 --> 00:19:55,792 on Saturday to sell air fresheners 469 00:19:55,875 --> 00:19:56,959 for automobiles. 470 00:19:57,041 --> 00:19:58,834 He never came home. 471 00:19:58,917 --> 00:20:01,458 - Police say, so far, they're stumped. 472 00:20:02,709 --> 00:20:05,709 - A month afterwards is when they found his body. 473 00:20:05,792 --> 00:20:09,709 ♪ ♪ 474 00:20:09,792 --> 00:20:11,709 After he was found dead, 475 00:20:11,792 --> 00:20:13,500 there were some nights I didn't sleep. 476 00:20:13,583 --> 00:20:15,208 ♪ ♪ 477 00:20:15,291 --> 00:20:18,000 There was always a ringing bell in the back of my head, like, 478 00:20:18,083 --> 00:20:21,208 normal, you know, Atlanta teenager. 479 00:20:21,291 --> 00:20:22,875 How could he get caught up in the middle of this? 480 00:20:22,959 --> 00:20:27,083 ♪ ♪ 481 00:20:27,166 --> 00:20:29,041 - This Mr. Whitaker says 482 00:20:29,125 --> 00:20:31,375 that he asked Sanders specifically 483 00:20:31,458 --> 00:20:34,500 about 14-year-old Lubie Geter. 484 00:20:34,583 --> 00:20:36,709 ♪ ♪ 485 00:20:36,792 --> 00:20:38,875 - Well, I can remember this very clearly. 486 00:20:38,959 --> 00:20:45,834 Uh, Mr. Whitaker had brought this to my attention 487 00:20:45,917 --> 00:20:50,000 a couple days after Lubie Geter was killed. 488 00:20:52,208 --> 00:20:54,709 And he was telling me 489 00:20:54,792 --> 00:20:59,083 that he was gonna kill that...black boy 490 00:20:59,166 --> 00:21:00,917 because he run into my car. 491 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,583 - Well, that's what he's saying you said. 492 00:21:02,667 --> 00:21:04,750 - True. 493 00:21:04,834 --> 00:21:05,917 He's turning it around. 494 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,667 That's not the way it happened. 495 00:21:09,166 --> 00:21:10,750 - Did there come a point in time 496 00:21:10,834 --> 00:21:14,291 in which they sent you to Charles Sanders's house 497 00:21:14,375 --> 00:21:16,250 and wanted you to ask specific questions 498 00:21:16,333 --> 00:21:17,917 about the Geter boy? 499 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,083 - Yeah. 500 00:21:19,166 --> 00:21:21,417 I said, "Well, you killed that damn Geter kid, 501 00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:22,417 didn't you?" 502 00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:24,417 He said, "Yeah, I damn sure did. 503 00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:26,834 I killed the little black bastard." 504 00:21:26,917 --> 00:21:28,458 - Was that recorded? 505 00:21:28,542 --> 00:21:30,250 - I assume it--I don't know why it wouldn't have-- 506 00:21:30,333 --> 00:21:32,041 if they didn't get it, I don't know why they didn't get it. 507 00:21:32,125 --> 00:21:36,125 - Charles T. Sanders admitted killing Geter. 508 00:21:36,208 --> 00:21:37,208 - The next witness, 509 00:21:37,291 --> 00:21:39,500 former Atlanta police chief George Napper 510 00:21:39,583 --> 00:21:41,417 says he does not remember 511 00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:43,041 his officers ever telling him 512 00:21:43,125 --> 00:21:45,417 about possible Klan involvement. 513 00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:49,375 - He had told them about the Klan being involved 514 00:21:49,458 --> 00:21:50,917 in the child murders? 515 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,458 - No, I don't recall that at all. 516 00:21:52,542 --> 00:21:54,291 - Well, you say "I don't recall." 517 00:21:54,375 --> 00:21:56,667 That's your answer to a lot of questions here today. 518 00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:58,125 Does that mean you don't recall, 519 00:21:58,208 --> 00:21:59,458 he might have told you, 520 00:21:59,542 --> 00:22:02,291 or you have no memory now, or it didn't happen? 521 00:22:02,375 --> 00:22:04,458 - I don't know whether it happened or not. 522 00:22:04,542 --> 00:22:06,333 - You have a black man testifying. 523 00:22:06,417 --> 00:22:08,083 - I don't think so, no. 524 00:22:08,166 --> 00:22:09,709 - You mean to tell me that 525 00:22:09,792 --> 00:22:11,959 the Klan is involved 526 00:22:12,041 --> 00:22:14,125 in the missing and murdered children case, 527 00:22:14,208 --> 00:22:16,917 and you don't remember? 528 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,458 They knew about it. 529 00:22:18,542 --> 00:22:20,333 - I don't recall that happening. 530 00:22:20,417 --> 00:22:24,667 - You know, they gave a lot of disingenuous answers. 531 00:22:24,750 --> 00:22:26,667 - Have you ever seen that document before? 532 00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:29,333 - Not that I know of. I don't recall, so. 533 00:22:29,417 --> 00:22:31,875 I don't remember. I--you know, I'm sure 534 00:22:31,959 --> 00:22:33,208 he said something, I just don't remember 535 00:22:33,291 --> 00:22:35,834 that the-- that there was anything said 536 00:22:35,917 --> 00:22:38,667 other than that, if there was information 537 00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:40,667 pertaining to our investigation, 538 00:22:40,750 --> 00:22:42,834 that they would let us know what was going on. 539 00:22:42,917 --> 00:22:45,000 - I'm afraid that at this time, 540 00:22:45,083 --> 00:22:48,333 I'm not clear on exactly what to report. 541 00:22:48,417 --> 00:22:51,000 - Push the mic up a little bit. There. 542 00:22:51,083 --> 00:22:53,166 - I don't know. - I do not know. 543 00:22:53,250 --> 00:22:55,792 I don't recall that. - I don't recall. 544 00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:57,208 - My answer is, I don't recall. 545 00:22:57,291 --> 00:22:59,208 - I don't recall that I remember 546 00:22:59,291 --> 00:23:01,208 exactly that it said Lubie Geter. 547 00:23:01,291 --> 00:23:03,041 - I don't know. 548 00:23:03,125 --> 00:23:04,834 - You ever had any discussion about that? 549 00:23:04,917 --> 00:23:06,583 - I don't have a recall, sir. 550 00:23:06,667 --> 00:23:08,208 ♪ ♪ 551 00:23:08,291 --> 00:23:10,792 - But that would be bad, now, wouldn't it? 552 00:23:14,750 --> 00:23:16,250 - Well, it's getting to the point. 553 00:23:16,333 --> 00:23:19,166 It's right lunchtime. All right. 554 00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:20,333 - We're hearing about some lapses 555 00:23:20,417 --> 00:23:21,583 of memory here. 556 00:23:21,667 --> 00:23:23,041 Do you believe these gentlemen when they say they don't-- 557 00:23:23,125 --> 00:23:24,000 - No, I don't. 558 00:23:24,083 --> 00:23:26,208 These are convenient lapses of memory. 559 00:23:26,291 --> 00:23:28,417 Can you imagine the chief of police 560 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:30,542 can't recall anything that happened 561 00:23:30,625 --> 00:23:33,542 in the most major investigation in the history of Atlanta, 562 00:23:33,625 --> 00:23:35,083 if not of Georgia? 563 00:23:35,166 --> 00:23:36,542 And he can't remember anything? 564 00:23:36,625 --> 00:23:38,709 I can't recall this, I can't recall that. 565 00:23:38,792 --> 00:23:41,083 He can't recall that someone confessed 566 00:23:41,166 --> 00:23:42,792 to the murder of Lubie Geter? 567 00:23:42,875 --> 00:23:44,750 Impossible. 568 00:23:44,834 --> 00:23:46,917 - Because of the nature of the case, 569 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,125 the sensitivity of the case, 570 00:23:49,208 --> 00:23:51,250 we went far above and beyond. 571 00:23:51,333 --> 00:23:54,583 It is very uncommon that you would run 572 00:23:54,667 --> 00:23:56,917 multiple electronic surveillances, 573 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,208 multiple physical surveillances. 574 00:23:59,291 --> 00:24:00,917 [machine clicking] 575 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,250 - The GBI looked for anything associated with the case. 576 00:24:05,333 --> 00:24:07,250 They looked for fiber. 577 00:24:07,333 --> 00:24:09,125 They looked for dogs. 578 00:24:09,208 --> 00:24:12,583 - Trace evidence in the case included dog hair 579 00:24:12,667 --> 00:24:15,083 that most likely belonged to a husky 580 00:24:15,166 --> 00:24:16,625 or a malamute. 581 00:24:16,709 --> 00:24:19,333 The Klansmen had a dog. 582 00:24:19,417 --> 00:24:21,250 - Did anyone ask you 583 00:24:21,333 --> 00:24:24,500 to check and see if Charles Sanders had a dog? 584 00:24:24,583 --> 00:24:25,750 - Yes, sir. 585 00:24:25,834 --> 00:24:28,375 - And what did they want to know? 586 00:24:28,458 --> 00:24:30,000 - Well, they wanted some hair off the dog, 587 00:24:30,083 --> 00:24:31,000 and I-- 588 00:24:31,083 --> 00:24:32,792 - Hair off of what dog? 589 00:24:32,875 --> 00:24:34,125 - Charles Sanders' dog. 590 00:24:34,208 --> 00:24:36,959 - What kind of dog did Charles Sanders have? 591 00:24:37,041 --> 00:24:39,208 - Alaskan husky. 592 00:24:40,208 --> 00:24:42,333 - A husky? - Yes, sir. 593 00:24:43,875 --> 00:24:45,625 - Did you ever own a dog? 594 00:24:45,709 --> 00:24:47,458 - Yes. 595 00:24:47,542 --> 00:24:50,625 - A Alaskan malamute? 596 00:24:50,709 --> 00:24:53,625 - No, I never had a... 597 00:24:53,709 --> 00:24:55,959 - And a Siberian husky. 598 00:24:56,041 --> 00:24:58,291 - Well, my dog Trigger, 599 00:24:58,375 --> 00:25:00,917 sh--she was pretty close to a Siberian, 600 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,959 but it was a German shepherd. 601 00:25:04,041 --> 00:25:05,375 I had a German shepherd. 602 00:25:05,458 --> 00:25:07,834 She was pretty close to a Siberian. 603 00:25:07,917 --> 00:25:11,291 But had a little shih tzu puppy, 604 00:25:11,375 --> 00:25:15,125 and I had a German shepherd, 605 00:25:15,208 --> 00:25:17,959 and I also had a pig by the name of Sausage. 606 00:25:19,959 --> 00:25:22,000 - Did Mr. Melton and the GBI officer 607 00:25:22,083 --> 00:25:24,000 ask you to get anything else? 608 00:25:24,083 --> 00:25:25,208 - Well, he said, 609 00:25:25,291 --> 00:25:26,834 "Well, will you get me something out of the house?" 610 00:25:26,917 --> 00:25:28,166 I said, "Yeah, if I can." 611 00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:30,166 He told me just reach down on the carpet 612 00:25:30,250 --> 00:25:32,083 in the living room and get a little-- 613 00:25:32,166 --> 00:25:33,333 you know, just a speck or something-- 614 00:25:33,417 --> 00:25:35,500 you know, just whatever I could pull out. 615 00:25:35,583 --> 00:25:37,417 - What kind of carpet was it? 616 00:25:38,041 --> 00:25:41,792 - Uh, this old green fuzzy carpet. 617 00:25:41,875 --> 00:25:44,667 - So okay, there's a green fiber here as well. 618 00:25:46,291 --> 00:25:48,166 - And then there's a conversation 619 00:25:48,250 --> 00:25:50,208 in April that was recorded. 620 00:25:50,291 --> 00:25:52,583 Terry Sanders says, "Hey, where you going? 621 00:25:52,667 --> 00:25:54,125 Out to get another little kid?" 622 00:25:56,417 --> 00:25:58,208 And Don Sanders said, "Well, yeah, 623 00:25:58,291 --> 00:25:59,959 scope out some places." 624 00:26:01,458 --> 00:26:04,166 A few weeks later, the GBI brought in 625 00:26:04,250 --> 00:26:06,667 Jerry Sanders, Don Sanders, 626 00:26:06,750 --> 00:26:08,250 and Charles Sanders. 627 00:26:09,792 --> 00:26:12,083 - Were you ever picked up? - Yes, I was. 628 00:26:12,166 --> 00:26:13,750 - Can you tell me about that? 629 00:26:13,834 --> 00:26:18,041 - Uh, Mr. Joe Jackson, GBI investigator, 630 00:26:18,125 --> 00:26:20,750 took me to GBI headquarters 631 00:26:20,834 --> 00:26:22,542 and interrogated me. 632 00:26:22,625 --> 00:26:26,417 I was accused of distributing explosives. 633 00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:28,750 Uh... 634 00:26:28,834 --> 00:26:31,709 I was accused of killing a young man 635 00:26:31,792 --> 00:26:34,083 by the name of Lubie Geter, 636 00:26:34,166 --> 00:26:36,375 which I don't know nothing about. 637 00:26:36,458 --> 00:26:39,375 [suspenseful music] 638 00:26:39,458 --> 00:26:43,959 ♪ ♪ 639 00:26:44,041 --> 00:26:46,625 You know, they questioned me extensively. 640 00:26:46,709 --> 00:26:48,875 Uh... 641 00:26:48,959 --> 00:26:51,083 and then they took me back to my house. 642 00:26:51,166 --> 00:26:53,417 ♪ ♪ 643 00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:55,417 I think Mr. Jackson realized 644 00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:58,542 that I had no knowledge 645 00:26:58,625 --> 00:27:00,709 of his investigation. 646 00:27:00,792 --> 00:27:03,250 ♪ ♪ 647 00:27:03,333 --> 00:27:06,125 - Anyway, there came a point in time 648 00:27:06,208 --> 00:27:12,417 in which you ceased working for the GBI and Mr. Melton. 649 00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:14,750 What blew up this investigation? 650 00:27:14,834 --> 00:27:16,166 When did it stop? 651 00:27:17,542 --> 00:27:18,667 - Well... 652 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:20,750 - Must be something that happened. 653 00:27:22,834 --> 00:27:25,125 - Well, this man's not gonna like it, 654 00:27:25,208 --> 00:27:26,625 but I'm gonna tell it like it is. 655 00:27:26,709 --> 00:27:29,291 A agent named Jackson, a GBI agent. 656 00:27:29,375 --> 00:27:30,792 - Jackson? - Yeah, which-- 657 00:27:30,875 --> 00:27:32,125 when Melton told me about it, 658 00:27:32,208 --> 00:27:34,083 he said a goddamn idiot GBI agent 659 00:27:34,166 --> 00:27:35,792 blowed it, blowed everything. 660 00:27:35,875 --> 00:27:36,875 I said, "Who is it?" He said, 661 00:27:36,959 --> 00:27:38,750 "That son of a bitch named Jackson." 662 00:27:40,375 --> 00:27:42,583 [mic scraping] - State your full name, please. 663 00:27:43,667 --> 00:27:46,458 - Joe Bledsoe Jackson, Jr. 664 00:27:46,542 --> 00:27:50,166 - Did you ask either Terry or Don Sanders 665 00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:51,625 about a conversation 666 00:27:51,709 --> 00:27:53,417 about scoping out some children? 667 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:58,208 - Mr. Cook... - Finding another kid? 668 00:27:58,291 --> 00:28:00,000 - Judge, I'd like the opportunity 669 00:28:00,083 --> 00:28:01,709 to discuss this matter with counsel. 670 00:28:01,792 --> 00:28:04,542 - I'd like for him to answer the question. 671 00:28:04,625 --> 00:28:06,959 - The question is, did you ask 672 00:28:07,041 --> 00:28:09,166 either of the Sanders that during interviews? 673 00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:11,166 - Yes, sir. - Okay. 674 00:28:11,250 --> 00:28:13,667 Now, Judge, if you don't mind, 675 00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:14,750 could you and I go into chambers? 676 00:28:14,834 --> 00:28:16,458 - No, no, I'm not going into chambers. 677 00:28:16,542 --> 00:28:18,000 Mr. Jackson, let's just simplify this. 678 00:28:18,083 --> 00:28:20,000 Answer his question now. 679 00:28:20,083 --> 00:28:21,625 - Yes, sir. 680 00:28:21,709 --> 00:28:23,750 - [clears throat] - Well, 681 00:28:23,834 --> 00:28:27,667 what did Terry or Don Sanders say about that? 682 00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:30,083 - They stated-- - That they were just joking? 683 00:28:31,166 --> 00:28:32,542 - That's correct, sir. 684 00:28:32,625 --> 00:28:35,250 They related to me that it was a joking 685 00:28:35,333 --> 00:28:36,959 type of conversation. 686 00:28:37,041 --> 00:28:39,250 - Talking about killing little kids 687 00:28:39,333 --> 00:28:41,208 being a joking conversation. 688 00:28:41,291 --> 00:28:43,583 Did you laugh with them? 689 00:28:43,667 --> 00:28:46,709 - Mr. Cook, the conversation that you refer to 690 00:28:46,792 --> 00:28:49,208 took place on April Fools' Day. 691 00:28:49,291 --> 00:28:51,750 - Oh, I see. That was their explanation, 692 00:28:51,834 --> 00:28:53,792 that the conversation took place 693 00:28:53,875 --> 00:28:55,667 on April Fools' Day? 694 00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:57,041 - That's correct, sir. 695 00:28:57,125 --> 00:29:00,917 - And you accepted that as being a good faith reply? 696 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,250 - That, along with the other surveillance techniques 697 00:29:06,333 --> 00:29:08,959 that we were utilizing during this time period. 698 00:29:10,291 --> 00:29:14,250 - And then there's a matter of the tapes. 699 00:29:14,333 --> 00:29:19,417 - This case generated a number of cassette tapes. 700 00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:21,583 - Yes. - What became of those? 701 00:29:21,667 --> 00:29:23,542 - The tapes, to my knowledge, 702 00:29:23,625 --> 00:29:24,750 have been destroyed. 703 00:29:24,834 --> 00:29:27,792 [suspenseful music] 704 00:29:27,875 --> 00:29:29,583 ♪ ♪ 705 00:29:29,667 --> 00:29:35,583 - Wayne Williams was arrested on June 3, 1981. 706 00:29:35,667 --> 00:29:39,417 It says "destroyed 7/31/81." 707 00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:42,083 - Yes, sir. - And whose initial is that? 708 00:29:42,166 --> 00:29:43,917 - Those are my initials. 709 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,667 - GBI agent Jackson 710 00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:49,125 destroyed the tapes 711 00:29:49,208 --> 00:29:54,583 while Wayne's original trial was pending, 712 00:29:54,667 --> 00:29:56,917 which looks very suspicious. 713 00:29:59,166 --> 00:30:02,333 Why would they destroy the evidence? 714 00:30:02,417 --> 00:30:05,166 - Did you listen to all of the tape recordings? 715 00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:08,250 - I don't remember listening to each of them, no, sir. 716 00:30:08,333 --> 00:30:10,792 - Well, wouldn't you have listened to all of them? 717 00:30:10,875 --> 00:30:12,792 - I don't know that I heard them all. 718 00:30:12,875 --> 00:30:13,750 I may have. 719 00:30:13,834 --> 00:30:15,291 I don't remember. 720 00:30:15,375 --> 00:30:17,625 - You say you may have heard all of them? 721 00:30:17,709 --> 00:30:19,000 - That's correct. 722 00:30:19,083 --> 00:30:21,083 - And no record was made of it. 723 00:30:21,166 --> 00:30:22,792 No transcript. 724 00:30:22,875 --> 00:30:24,250 - I don't think so. 725 00:30:24,333 --> 00:30:25,500 - And you were investigating 726 00:30:25,583 --> 00:30:27,625 the missing and murdered children. 727 00:30:27,709 --> 00:30:29,333 - What I was investigating 728 00:30:29,417 --> 00:30:31,250 was whether or not this particular group 729 00:30:31,333 --> 00:30:32,458 had anything to do with it... 730 00:30:32,542 --> 00:30:33,792 - Right. - And they did not. 731 00:30:33,875 --> 00:30:35,750 - And they did not, and you concluded that. 732 00:30:35,834 --> 00:30:37,000 - Yes, sir. - And you don't remember 733 00:30:37,083 --> 00:30:38,166 what was on the tapes 734 00:30:38,250 --> 00:30:39,166 'cause you don't even know 735 00:30:39,250 --> 00:30:40,375 that you listened to all of them. 736 00:30:40,458 --> 00:30:43,458 - Well, sir, Mr. Cook, what I do recall for certain 737 00:30:43,542 --> 00:30:46,875 is that there was no mention 738 00:30:46,959 --> 00:30:48,291 in any form or fashion 739 00:30:48,375 --> 00:30:51,500 in which these people were killing any children. 740 00:30:51,583 --> 00:30:52,750 - Well, how would you know that 741 00:30:52,834 --> 00:30:56,041 if you don't remember hearing the tapes? 742 00:30:56,125 --> 00:30:59,208 - Uh, it just--that's the way I recall it. 743 00:30:59,291 --> 00:31:02,625 There's no tie whatsoever to any murders. 744 00:31:02,709 --> 00:31:05,625 [uneasy music] 745 00:31:05,709 --> 00:31:08,333 ♪ ♪ 746 00:31:08,417 --> 00:31:12,166 - You know, these are Klansmen, rednecks, 747 00:31:12,250 --> 00:31:16,208 who spewed racial rhetoric every day, 748 00:31:16,291 --> 00:31:19,542 just people running their mouths. 749 00:31:19,625 --> 00:31:22,375 Sanders was brought in and polygraphed, 750 00:31:22,458 --> 00:31:23,834 which was negative. 751 00:31:23,917 --> 00:31:25,917 As a result of the searches, 752 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,542 examination of the fiber... 753 00:31:27,625 --> 00:31:29,333 There was no indication 754 00:31:29,417 --> 00:31:31,375 that the Sanders family had killed 755 00:31:31,458 --> 00:31:33,709 any of those children. 756 00:31:33,792 --> 00:31:37,417 The information was determined to be unfounded. 757 00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:40,917 As a result, the investigation was closed. 758 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,250 - All right, we'll be in recess, 759 00:31:42,333 --> 00:31:44,250 and if there's nothing else, until 9:00 in the morning. 760 00:31:45,333 --> 00:31:48,000 - I think Mr. Cook, 761 00:31:48,083 --> 00:31:49,709 Mr. Kunstler, 762 00:31:49,792 --> 00:31:52,208 Mr. Whatley, 763 00:31:52,291 --> 00:31:55,333 should really look at what they have. 764 00:31:57,125 --> 00:31:59,750 If you have a case against Charles Sanders 765 00:31:59,834 --> 00:32:01,959 or his family, 766 00:32:02,041 --> 00:32:04,500 put it up, or else shut up. 767 00:32:08,208 --> 00:32:09,750 - You know, other than him boasting 768 00:32:09,834 --> 00:32:11,625 that he was going to do this, 769 00:32:11,709 --> 00:32:14,542 there was no evidence he had done it. 770 00:32:14,625 --> 00:32:16,583 - Anything else? - The end. 771 00:32:16,667 --> 00:32:20,458 [laughing] 772 00:32:20,542 --> 00:32:22,125 - And the evidence on Lubie Geter, 773 00:32:22,208 --> 00:32:24,750 none of it pointed to Charles Sanders. 774 00:32:24,834 --> 00:32:26,250 In other words, there was nothing there 775 00:32:26,333 --> 00:32:29,083 other than a Klansman bragging, apparently, 776 00:32:29,166 --> 00:32:32,250 to another Klansman 777 00:32:32,333 --> 00:32:35,959 about something that... 778 00:32:36,041 --> 00:32:37,208 didn't happen. 779 00:32:37,291 --> 00:32:39,208 - If had been the Sanders, 780 00:32:39,291 --> 00:32:42,166 I would've been the first to put the handcuffs on them. 781 00:32:42,250 --> 00:32:44,458 Uh, it wasn't the Sanders, 782 00:32:44,542 --> 00:32:46,458 and we moved on. 783 00:32:46,542 --> 00:32:47,959 ♪ ♪ 784 00:32:48,041 --> 00:32:51,458 - I was never willing to go so far as to say 785 00:32:51,542 --> 00:32:53,125 that members of the Sanders family 786 00:32:53,208 --> 00:32:54,250 were guilty, 787 00:32:54,333 --> 00:32:56,417 but we will never actually know for sure, 788 00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:59,458 because the tapes were destroyed. 789 00:32:59,542 --> 00:33:00,834 - [laughs] 790 00:33:00,917 --> 00:33:02,583 - What I do think: 791 00:33:02,667 --> 00:33:07,458 there was at least as much reliable evidence 792 00:33:07,542 --> 00:33:09,667 against the Sanders family 793 00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:12,250 for one or more of those killings 794 00:33:12,333 --> 00:33:14,458 than there was against Wayne Williams, 795 00:33:14,542 --> 00:33:17,458 and I also believe beyond any possible doubt 796 00:33:17,542 --> 00:33:20,250 that had the jury learned 797 00:33:20,333 --> 00:33:22,583 of the Sanders family involvement, 798 00:33:22,667 --> 00:33:25,792 of the threats against Lubie Geter, 799 00:33:25,875 --> 00:33:28,000 Sanders' husky, 800 00:33:28,083 --> 00:33:29,625 I do think the jury may have come 801 00:33:29,709 --> 00:33:32,041 to a very, very different conclusion. 802 00:33:32,125 --> 00:33:33,792 - Were these people simply incompetent, 803 00:33:33,875 --> 00:33:35,542 or was there some-- - Was who incompetent? 804 00:33:35,625 --> 00:33:37,125 - The police investigation. 805 00:33:37,208 --> 00:33:38,667 - Well, I don't-- 806 00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:41,000 I don't want to characterize it as that. 807 00:33:41,083 --> 00:33:43,125 I don't know what they were. - I think I know what it was. 808 00:33:43,208 --> 00:33:44,417 - You know, I'll let them speak for themselves. 809 00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:45,375 - All right. - I'll speak, 810 00:33:45,458 --> 00:33:46,500 not being from Georgia. 811 00:33:46,583 --> 00:33:48,250 This was a device 812 00:33:48,333 --> 00:33:51,041 to a keep a race war from happening, 813 00:33:51,125 --> 00:33:53,166 and if they indicted someone from the Klan, 814 00:33:53,250 --> 00:33:55,667 that's what was gonna happen, in their opinion, 815 00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:58,000 and if they indicted someone who was black, 816 00:33:58,083 --> 00:33:59,458 it would not happen. 817 00:33:59,542 --> 00:34:01,000 And they made a calculated choice. 818 00:34:01,083 --> 00:34:03,667 They wanted to sacrifice Wayne Williams 819 00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:05,542 in order to keep the peace. 820 00:34:05,625 --> 00:34:08,083 [uneasy music] 821 00:34:08,166 --> 00:34:11,458 - After Wayne Williams became a suspect, 822 00:34:11,542 --> 00:34:13,542 all of these other investigations 823 00:34:13,625 --> 00:34:15,542 were closed. 824 00:34:15,625 --> 00:34:19,375 Anything that suggested Wayne could be innocent 825 00:34:19,458 --> 00:34:21,709 was simply cast aside 826 00:34:21,792 --> 00:34:25,792 because Wayne Williams solved a lot of problems. 827 00:34:27,166 --> 00:34:30,709 - Not saying that Wayne did it or didn't do it. 828 00:34:30,792 --> 00:34:31,875 I don't know. 829 00:34:31,959 --> 00:34:33,500 But had they pinned this 830 00:34:33,583 --> 00:34:35,750 on somebody white, 831 00:34:35,834 --> 00:34:38,709 especially somebody related to the Klan, 832 00:34:38,792 --> 00:34:41,417 there would have been riots all over America. 833 00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:44,583 America would have been upside down. 834 00:34:44,667 --> 00:34:47,917 The fact that they pinned this on somebody black 835 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,208 shut it down. 836 00:34:49,291 --> 00:34:51,250 ♪ ♪ 837 00:34:51,333 --> 00:34:53,208 - They are killing little children in the city! 838 00:34:53,291 --> 00:34:56,458 - They did not want a second Atlanta burning. 839 00:34:56,542 --> 00:35:00,208 ♪ ♪ 840 00:35:00,291 --> 00:35:03,250 Maynard Jackson had gotten the airport, 841 00:35:03,333 --> 00:35:04,625 and he had gotten all this business. 842 00:35:04,709 --> 00:35:07,750 They did not want it to be destroyed. 843 00:35:07,834 --> 00:35:09,750 ♪ ♪ 844 00:35:09,834 --> 00:35:11,083 - All rise. 845 00:35:11,166 --> 00:35:12,583 Court is now in session, 846 00:35:12,667 --> 00:35:14,959 Honorable Judge Hal Craig presiding. 847 00:35:15,041 --> 00:35:19,417 - The appeals became a very long process. 848 00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:20,834 - Be seated. 849 00:35:22,375 --> 00:35:24,458 - And I remember thinking 850 00:35:24,542 --> 00:35:26,625 enough time had gone by, 851 00:35:26,709 --> 00:35:29,125 the passions had cooled, 852 00:35:29,208 --> 00:35:32,333 the Klan evidence all came out in open court, 853 00:35:32,417 --> 00:35:34,667 and there was no race war. 854 00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:36,625 I thought, "Maybe now 855 00:35:36,709 --> 00:35:39,625 we can have a sensible reckoning." 856 00:35:39,709 --> 00:35:43,625 ♪ ♪ 857 00:35:43,709 --> 00:35:45,458 - Williams, in fact, 858 00:35:45,542 --> 00:35:46,917 was denied his constitutional rights. 859 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,834 - It was a tremendous effort on our part 860 00:35:49,917 --> 00:35:52,792 to show the injustice, 861 00:35:52,875 --> 00:35:54,834 and I think we showed it. 862 00:35:54,917 --> 00:35:57,000 - Well, what has happened today is this. 863 00:35:57,083 --> 00:36:00,250 A Superior Court judge, Harold Craig, 864 00:36:00,333 --> 00:36:03,792 has denied Wayne Williams' plea for a new trial. 865 00:36:03,875 --> 00:36:06,000 ♪ ♪ 866 00:36:06,083 --> 00:36:10,208 - The judge found for the prosecution. 867 00:36:10,291 --> 00:36:13,041 He upheld the conviction, 868 00:36:13,125 --> 00:36:17,834 said no violation of Brady had been made 869 00:36:17,917 --> 00:36:20,667 of any significance. 870 00:36:20,750 --> 00:36:23,500 - The judge said there was nothing here 871 00:36:23,583 --> 00:36:26,375 that could've been useful in any way to the defense 872 00:36:26,458 --> 00:36:29,500 except the sort of red herring that you could throw out, 873 00:36:29,583 --> 00:36:30,959 saying "the Klan was involved," 874 00:36:31,041 --> 00:36:33,166 which we still hear about today, 875 00:36:33,250 --> 00:36:34,542 as if they were involved, 876 00:36:34,625 --> 00:36:36,458 and there was no evidence they were involved. 877 00:36:36,542 --> 00:36:38,500 So the judge on the habeas corpus said 878 00:36:38,583 --> 00:36:40,500 there's nothing they could've used. 879 00:36:40,583 --> 00:36:43,333 - Eh... 880 00:36:43,417 --> 00:36:45,792 it's the worst trial I've ever seen. 881 00:36:45,875 --> 00:36:48,458 It's the worst situation 882 00:36:48,542 --> 00:36:51,750 of unfairness and the deprivation of fairness 883 00:36:51,834 --> 00:36:54,625 that I've seen in 43 years of law practice. 884 00:36:55,625 --> 00:36:58,125 You know, it's a damn disgrace. 885 00:36:59,792 --> 00:37:01,750 - When the decision came out, 886 00:37:01,834 --> 00:37:03,875 Bill Kunstler said, 887 00:37:03,959 --> 00:37:06,375 talking about white people, 888 00:37:06,458 --> 00:37:08,667 quote, "They're all such bullshitters 889 00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:11,000 when it comes to a black man's life." 890 00:37:11,083 --> 00:37:12,375 Close quote. 891 00:37:12,458 --> 00:37:15,417 [melancholy music] 892 00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:16,542 ♪ ♪ 893 00:37:16,625 --> 00:37:21,083 It was that dashed expectation 894 00:37:21,166 --> 00:37:23,875 that sort of gave rise to my motto 895 00:37:23,959 --> 00:37:25,709 of the ensuing years, 896 00:37:25,792 --> 00:37:27,875 which is, "I have no expectations. 897 00:37:27,959 --> 00:37:29,667 I only have hopes." 898 00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:32,375 Because disappointment is a function of expectations, 899 00:37:32,458 --> 00:37:36,458 and mine, now, pretty low from the legal system. 900 00:37:36,542 --> 00:37:43,542 ♪ ♪ 901 00:37:50,375 --> 00:37:53,125 - It's this enormous injustice. 902 00:37:54,792 --> 00:37:56,542 For the Georgia Bureau of Investigation to say 903 00:37:56,625 --> 00:37:58,375 that they found no evidence 904 00:37:58,458 --> 00:38:01,917 of the Sanders brothers being involved 905 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,208 is hogwash. 906 00:38:03,291 --> 00:38:09,041 ♪ ♪ 907 00:38:09,125 --> 00:38:10,750 There were a number of cases where they found 908 00:38:10,834 --> 00:38:13,458 Caucasian pubic hairs and other hairs on the kids. 909 00:38:14,208 --> 00:38:16,125 They should have known at that point 910 00:38:16,208 --> 00:38:17,875 that they were looking for a white man. 911 00:38:18,542 --> 00:38:20,834 When I'm going through the GBI file, 912 00:38:20,917 --> 00:38:22,667 certain elements struck me 913 00:38:22,750 --> 00:38:24,250 about Don Sanders. 914 00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:26,834 Again, he's secretary 915 00:38:26,917 --> 00:38:29,000 of the National States' Rights Party, 916 00:38:29,083 --> 00:38:31,792 who's trying to start a race war. 917 00:38:31,875 --> 00:38:36,000 Now, this is a 1975 mug shot of Don Sanders. 918 00:38:36,083 --> 00:38:39,000 You will notice a scar on his cheek 919 00:38:39,083 --> 00:38:41,125 and a long scar on his neck. 920 00:38:41,208 --> 00:38:43,291 This, of course, brings me back 921 00:38:43,375 --> 00:38:44,458 to the FBI file 922 00:38:44,542 --> 00:38:47,667 along with the Atlanta Police Department files. 923 00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:50,458 Then you have these eyewitness accounts. 924 00:38:50,542 --> 00:38:51,458 For example, 925 00:38:51,542 --> 00:38:53,792 in the Christopher Richardson case, 926 00:38:53,875 --> 00:38:57,000 you've got a eyewitness saying they saw this white man 927 00:38:57,083 --> 00:38:59,500 kidnap Richardson, 928 00:38:59,583 --> 00:39:01,834 this witness describing the scar 929 00:39:01,917 --> 00:39:03,542 like an arrow on his face. 930 00:39:03,625 --> 00:39:05,667 ♪ ♪ 931 00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:07,834 And then you see Don Sanders. 932 00:39:07,917 --> 00:39:08,875 Right by his mouth, 933 00:39:08,959 --> 00:39:11,125 he has a cut scar on his left cheek. 934 00:39:11,208 --> 00:39:12,709 ♪ ♪ 935 00:39:12,792 --> 00:39:14,792 A very noticeable scar. 936 00:39:14,875 --> 00:39:16,333 It fits Don Sanders. 937 00:39:16,417 --> 00:39:19,166 ♪ ♪ 938 00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:22,000 And I sort of just compare the GBI file 939 00:39:22,083 --> 00:39:23,500 with the FBI file 940 00:39:23,583 --> 00:39:26,792 to find out what else could be a match. 941 00:39:26,875 --> 00:39:30,000 Is there another nexus between those two files? 942 00:39:30,083 --> 00:39:33,500 This is an example of an FBI file 943 00:39:33,583 --> 00:39:34,792 on the investigation. 944 00:39:34,875 --> 00:39:36,750 As you can see, they are heavily redacted, 945 00:39:36,834 --> 00:39:40,083 where names, basic descriptions are taken out. 946 00:39:40,166 --> 00:39:43,500 As compared to these files, 947 00:39:43,583 --> 00:39:45,750 which is from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. 948 00:39:45,834 --> 00:39:47,625 There is no redactions. 949 00:39:47,709 --> 00:39:49,750 And you can then put the two together, 950 00:39:49,834 --> 00:39:52,250 you know, synthesize the data that you're looking at. 951 00:39:52,333 --> 00:39:55,041 This is from the FBI file. 952 00:39:55,125 --> 00:39:56,875 In February of 1981, 953 00:39:56,959 --> 00:39:59,041 this white male chases this ten-year-old kid 954 00:39:59,125 --> 00:40:00,542 home from school. 955 00:40:00,625 --> 00:40:02,208 The boy runs under the bed and locks the door. 956 00:40:02,291 --> 00:40:03,709 The guy breaks the door down, 957 00:40:03,792 --> 00:40:05,041 tries to the find the kid, 958 00:40:05,125 --> 00:40:07,000 but the kid is hiding under the bed, so he leaves. 959 00:40:07,083 --> 00:40:10,125 A few hours later, this guy comes back. 960 00:40:10,208 --> 00:40:12,083 The kid and his mother see this white male 961 00:40:12,166 --> 00:40:13,417 staring through the window. 962 00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:15,125 He's got blue eyes, 963 00:40:15,208 --> 00:40:17,917 and he has a scar. 964 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,250 This suspect in question had no facial hair. 965 00:40:21,333 --> 00:40:23,250 On March 1st, the same ten-year-old 966 00:40:23,333 --> 00:40:24,750 goes into the FBI headquarters, 967 00:40:24,834 --> 00:40:26,709 and he's shown a photo lineup, 968 00:40:26,792 --> 00:40:29,166 picks out--he says this is definitely the man 969 00:40:29,250 --> 00:40:30,917 who chased him about a month earlier, 970 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,959 but in this photograph, 971 00:40:33,041 --> 00:40:34,917 he's wearing a full beard. 972 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,917 "When he chased me, he was clean-shaven." 973 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,291 ♪ ♪ 974 00:40:40,375 --> 00:40:42,125 Now, at the same time, 975 00:40:42,208 --> 00:40:44,625 in February of '81 into early March, 976 00:40:44,709 --> 00:40:46,625 the agent in charge of the GBI investigation 977 00:40:46,709 --> 00:40:48,542 of the Sanders notices that he's changed 978 00:40:48,625 --> 00:40:50,417 his appearance completely. 979 00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:52,125 He's cut his hair a little bit, 980 00:40:52,208 --> 00:40:54,709 and he has a well-manicured beard now, 981 00:40:54,792 --> 00:40:56,041 whereas he had been clean-shaven 982 00:40:56,125 --> 00:40:57,917 a few weeks before. 983 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,750 This matches up with a suspect 984 00:41:00,834 --> 00:41:04,500 here in the FBI document, whose name is redacted. 985 00:41:04,583 --> 00:41:06,959 Again, he had a full beard in March, 986 00:41:07,041 --> 00:41:08,792 and so did Don Sanders 987 00:41:08,875 --> 00:41:10,667 in this GBI file. 988 00:41:10,750 --> 00:41:12,792 ♪ ♪ 989 00:41:12,875 --> 00:41:14,625 The dots are connected. 990 00:41:14,709 --> 00:41:17,333 The beard changing at the same time 991 00:41:17,417 --> 00:41:21,291 and then the scar-- it all adds up. 992 00:41:21,375 --> 00:41:23,834 I think Don Sanders has to be the man 993 00:41:23,917 --> 00:41:27,000 whose name is blacked out in the FBI file. 994 00:41:27,083 --> 00:41:30,667 [suspenseful music] 995 00:41:30,750 --> 00:41:31,959 I said, "Oh, my God, they've been trying 996 00:41:32,041 --> 00:41:34,333 "to cover this up for 40 years, 997 00:41:34,417 --> 00:41:35,542 and they slipped up." 998 00:41:37,208 --> 00:41:39,959 - I think the file shows very clearly 999 00:41:40,041 --> 00:41:42,625 that the Sanders were involved. 1000 00:41:42,709 --> 00:41:45,000 I'm speculating, but seems like 1001 00:41:45,083 --> 00:41:48,542 the Atlanta police investigator Aubrey Melton 1002 00:41:48,625 --> 00:41:51,959 was the origin of how all those files 1003 00:41:52,041 --> 00:41:53,083 got to me. 1004 00:41:53,166 --> 00:41:55,834 He knew they were sweeping it up under the rug, 1005 00:41:55,917 --> 00:41:57,792 and he put his career on the line 1006 00:41:57,875 --> 00:41:59,959 for the truth. 1007 00:42:00,041 --> 00:42:02,250 - Aubrey Melton ought to be commended for that. 1008 00:42:03,917 --> 00:42:05,250 You know, that's what Shakespeare said about murder. 1009 00:42:05,333 --> 00:42:07,166 Murder always leaves a silent witness. 1010 00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:09,709 To me, those documents are a silent witness 1011 00:42:09,792 --> 00:42:13,041 showing the Sanders brothers are involved 1012 00:42:13,125 --> 00:42:14,709 in killing those kids. 1013 00:42:14,792 --> 00:42:20,333 ♪ ♪ 1014 00:42:20,417 --> 00:42:23,000 - Look at the whole record, 1015 00:42:23,083 --> 00:42:26,417 and it seems like there's several strands 1016 00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:28,375 of killings. 1017 00:42:28,458 --> 00:42:32,250 You have the Sanders and the Ku Klux Klan. 1018 00:42:32,333 --> 00:42:34,917 You had pedophilia going on: 1019 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,375 Wilcoxen and Tom Terrell, 1020 00:42:38,458 --> 00:42:41,542 convicted pedophiles. 1021 00:42:41,625 --> 00:42:44,000 You have witnesses to Jamie Brooks 1022 00:42:44,083 --> 00:42:46,667 with Clifford Jones. 1023 00:42:46,750 --> 00:42:50,625 They didn't follow those leads. 1024 00:42:50,709 --> 00:42:52,417 They chose Wayne. 1025 00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:56,041 ♪ ♪ 1026 00:42:56,125 --> 00:42:57,709 - You know, I always felt 1027 00:42:57,792 --> 00:42:59,583 that this is one of those mysteries 1028 00:42:59,667 --> 00:43:00,875 that will remain a mystery 1029 00:43:00,959 --> 00:43:03,375 because we blew it from the beginning. 1030 00:43:03,458 --> 00:43:05,333 There were just all these questions, 1031 00:43:05,417 --> 00:43:07,250 and we never got good answers. 1032 00:43:07,333 --> 00:43:10,583 ♪ ♪ 1033 00:43:10,667 --> 00:43:13,917 - The questions kept coming up. 1034 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,458 The case had been so much about fiber evidence, 1035 00:43:17,542 --> 00:43:19,792 and just a few years back, 1036 00:43:19,875 --> 00:43:23,041 the Justice Department sent me a letter. 1037 00:43:23,125 --> 00:43:25,417 They said there was a problem 1038 00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:27,125 with the whole process 1039 00:43:27,208 --> 00:43:29,375 by the FBI crime lab. 1040 00:43:29,458 --> 00:43:33,417 ♪ ♪ 1041 00:43:33,500 --> 00:43:35,417 - FBI lab evidence in some of this country's 1042 00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:37,500 most high-profile criminal cases 1043 00:43:37,583 --> 00:43:38,959 and a whole lot more 1044 00:43:39,041 --> 00:43:40,625 could be called into question now, 1045 00:43:40,709 --> 00:43:43,583 this months after an FBI whistleblower 1046 00:43:43,667 --> 00:43:47,917 accused the FBI crime lab of shoddy and sloppy work. 1047 00:43:48,917 --> 00:43:53,583 - The FBI laboratory was in the J. Edgar Hoover Building, 1048 00:43:53,667 --> 00:43:55,792 and that building was not built 1049 00:43:55,875 --> 00:43:58,834 to hold a laboratory. 1050 00:43:58,917 --> 00:44:01,667 Immediately upon walking into the laboratory in 1986, 1051 00:44:01,750 --> 00:44:03,625 I saw it was a filthy environment. 1052 00:44:03,709 --> 00:44:06,667 Some of the equipment was way outdated. 1053 00:44:06,750 --> 00:44:09,875 A lot of it was rusty-- literally rusty. 1054 00:44:09,959 --> 00:44:12,125 I was working in a trace analysis unit 1055 00:44:12,208 --> 00:44:13,834 where we were looking for 1056 00:44:13,917 --> 00:44:16,458 tiny, tiny, tiny amounts of material. 1057 00:44:16,542 --> 00:44:19,333 The air system that was in the laboratory-- 1058 00:44:19,417 --> 00:44:22,583 the air ducts were lined with fiberglass, 1059 00:44:22,667 --> 00:44:24,333 and fiberglass started breaking down. 1060 00:44:24,417 --> 00:44:27,208 And when the air system came back on, 1061 00:44:27,291 --> 00:44:30,000 all this stuff would rain down on our equipment, 1062 00:44:30,083 --> 00:44:32,125 and we referred to it as black rain. 1063 00:44:32,208 --> 00:44:33,959 I took Scotch tape, 1064 00:44:34,041 --> 00:44:35,375 and I put it around on surfaces 1065 00:44:35,458 --> 00:44:36,959 and I put it under the microscope, 1066 00:44:37,041 --> 00:44:39,333 and it literally took my breath away. 1067 00:44:39,417 --> 00:44:41,166 I was looking at countless-- 1068 00:44:41,250 --> 00:44:42,834 and I'm not talking about 100 or 1,000. 1069 00:44:42,917 --> 00:44:43,875 I'm talking about-- 1070 00:44:43,959 --> 00:44:45,625 if there was such a thing as a zillion, 1071 00:44:45,709 --> 00:44:49,542 there were just fibers everywhere, 1072 00:44:49,625 --> 00:44:51,333 and it was coming down into areas 1073 00:44:51,417 --> 00:44:52,959 that we were doing fiber analysis, 1074 00:44:53,041 --> 00:44:54,333 and we had no idea 1075 00:44:54,417 --> 00:44:55,834 whether they came from crime scenes 1076 00:44:55,917 --> 00:44:58,500 or whether they came from the laboratory itself. 1077 00:44:58,583 --> 00:45:01,500 We're gonna put human beings in cages and death chambers 1078 00:45:01,583 --> 00:45:04,417 based upon that environment? No, sir. 1079 00:45:06,083 --> 00:45:07,208 I hadn't been there long 1080 00:45:07,291 --> 00:45:09,333 when I talked to my training agent. 1081 00:45:09,417 --> 00:45:10,625 I said, "You know, this is gonna come out 1082 00:45:10,709 --> 00:45:14,000 in court sometime," and his response was, 1083 00:45:14,083 --> 00:45:15,709 "Before you embarrass the FBI, 1084 00:45:15,792 --> 00:45:18,709 "you'll commit perjury in court. 1085 00:45:18,792 --> 00:45:20,417 We all do it." 1086 00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:22,709 Then I go to his boss, 1087 00:45:22,792 --> 00:45:26,542 and I took that go-to-boss up over about... 1088 00:45:26,625 --> 00:45:30,542 oh, six years, whatever, 1089 00:45:30,625 --> 00:45:32,709 from boss to boss to boss to boss, 1090 00:45:32,792 --> 00:45:35,709 and about 1995, the media got hold of it, 1091 00:45:35,792 --> 00:45:38,458 and then it got a life of its own. 1092 00:45:38,542 --> 00:45:41,375 - For years, the FBI lab has been world-renowned 1093 00:45:41,458 --> 00:45:44,208 for coming up with clues that break cases. 1094 00:45:44,291 --> 00:45:47,250 Now a new investigation shows that for years, 1095 00:45:47,333 --> 00:45:49,583 the lab may have been turning out mistakes. 1096 00:45:49,667 --> 00:45:53,083 - Scientifically flawed testimony, 1097 00:45:53,166 --> 00:45:55,458 inaccurate testimony, 1098 00:45:55,542 --> 00:45:56,959 testimony beyond 1099 00:45:57,041 --> 00:45:59,250 the laboratory examiner's expertise. 1100 00:45:59,333 --> 00:46:02,667 - It just ballooned. 1101 00:46:04,417 --> 00:46:07,000 The FBI and the U.S. Department of Justice 1102 00:46:07,083 --> 00:46:08,959 reopened thousands of cases. 1103 00:46:09,041 --> 00:46:11,750 ♪ ♪ 1104 00:46:11,834 --> 00:46:14,417 In April of 2015, 1105 00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:16,625 the FBI announced 1106 00:46:16,709 --> 00:46:20,208 that 26 of 28 hair examiners 1107 00:46:20,291 --> 00:46:22,417 had provided misleading testimony 1108 00:46:22,500 --> 00:46:24,750 95% percent of the time 1109 00:46:24,834 --> 00:46:26,792 over a 30-year period of time 1110 00:46:26,875 --> 00:46:28,041 in court. 1111 00:46:28,125 --> 00:46:30,750 26 of 28. 1112 00:46:30,834 --> 00:46:32,875 - Whitehurst is now cataloguing the files 1113 00:46:32,959 --> 00:46:34,458 and offering his opinions 1114 00:46:34,542 --> 00:46:36,125 on mistakes made in cases 1115 00:46:36,208 --> 00:46:38,000 ranging from the World Trade Center bombing 1116 00:46:38,083 --> 00:46:39,583 to Oklahoma City 1117 00:46:39,667 --> 00:46:42,625 and hundreds of local murders in between. 1118 00:46:42,709 --> 00:46:45,583 - Wayne Williams' case was worked on 1119 00:46:45,667 --> 00:46:47,000 by the same group of people 1120 00:46:47,083 --> 00:46:49,291 in the same processing areas 1121 00:46:49,375 --> 00:46:51,208 under the same black rain. 1122 00:46:52,917 --> 00:46:59,875 ♪ ♪ 1123 00:47:02,375 --> 00:47:05,291 - It wasn't just the fiber evidence. 1124 00:47:05,375 --> 00:47:07,834 Based on victim type, 1125 00:47:07,917 --> 00:47:09,625 where the bodies were found, 1126 00:47:09,709 --> 00:47:12,750 and the eyewitnesses that saw Wayne Williams 1127 00:47:12,834 --> 00:47:14,959 with victims... 1128 00:47:15,041 --> 00:47:16,458 I'm 100% certain 1129 00:47:16,542 --> 00:47:18,333 that Wayne Williams is the killer. 1130 00:47:18,417 --> 00:47:21,333 [suspenseful music] 1131 00:47:21,417 --> 00:47:22,667 ♪ ♪ 1132 00:47:22,750 --> 00:47:24,583 Keep in mind, the pattern 1133 00:47:24,667 --> 00:47:27,333 of juvenile and young adult homicides 1134 00:47:27,417 --> 00:47:30,875 stopped after the arrest of Wayne Williams. 1135 00:47:30,959 --> 00:47:33,667 - The killings stopped. He can't do this anymore. 1136 00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:35,041 He's done. 1137 00:47:35,125 --> 00:47:37,375 - No, I don't think the killings stopped 1138 00:47:37,458 --> 00:47:39,291 because of Wayne Williams being arrested. 1139 00:47:39,375 --> 00:47:41,500 I think what happened is that 1140 00:47:41,583 --> 00:47:43,625 the most probable suspects went to jail 1141 00:47:43,709 --> 00:47:44,834 around the same time 1142 00:47:44,917 --> 00:47:47,166 as Wayne's arrest. 1143 00:47:47,250 --> 00:47:49,083 When the Sanders brothers were taken into custody, 1144 00:47:49,166 --> 00:47:50,458 they were told point-blank, 1145 00:47:50,542 --> 00:47:52,709 "We have information that you are connected 1146 00:47:52,792 --> 00:47:55,375 to some of the murders." 1147 00:47:55,458 --> 00:47:57,000 Well, of course then, they're on notice, 1148 00:47:57,083 --> 00:47:58,333 so they have to stop. 1149 00:47:58,417 --> 00:48:00,667 Now, at the same time, 1150 00:48:00,750 --> 00:48:03,875 the prime Clifford Jones suspect, 1151 00:48:03,959 --> 00:48:05,166 Tom Terrell, 1152 00:48:05,250 --> 00:48:07,166 David Wilcoxen, 1153 00:48:07,250 --> 00:48:09,542 they were all arrested and thrown in jail, 1154 00:48:09,625 --> 00:48:11,250 and that's why the killings stopped. 1155 00:48:11,333 --> 00:48:14,375 - No, these were outlandish rumors 1156 00:48:14,458 --> 00:48:16,375 with no substance to back them up. 1157 00:48:16,458 --> 00:48:19,750 There was nobody identified as a viable suspect 1158 00:48:19,834 --> 00:48:21,834 other than Wayne Williams. 1159 00:48:21,917 --> 00:48:23,375 ♪ ♪ 1160 00:48:23,458 --> 00:48:26,542 The evidence in this case is airtight in my opinion, 1161 00:48:26,625 --> 00:48:29,083 and I think, if somebody looks at it objectively, 1162 00:48:29,166 --> 00:48:30,875 it should prove it to them 1163 00:48:30,959 --> 00:48:33,208 that Wayne Williams is guilty. 1164 00:48:33,291 --> 00:48:35,709 But some of the parents are still not satisfied 1165 00:48:35,792 --> 00:48:37,291 with the investigation. 1166 00:48:43,333 --> 00:48:46,750 - This is one of the favorite pictures. 1167 00:48:46,834 --> 00:48:49,500 We had just left church that Easter. 1168 00:48:52,709 --> 00:48:55,250 Patrick would be married with kids 1169 00:48:55,333 --> 00:48:56,750 and probably went on to the service 1170 00:48:56,834 --> 00:48:58,750 like his rest of his brothers. 1171 00:48:58,834 --> 00:49:00,834 [somber music] 1172 00:49:00,917 --> 00:49:03,291 Just broke my heart. 1173 00:49:03,375 --> 00:49:05,583 ♪ ♪ 1174 00:49:05,667 --> 00:49:07,917 You know, it's--probably was a time that I said 1175 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,083 that, you know, in my heart, I really do believe 1176 00:49:10,166 --> 00:49:11,583 that Wayne Williams killed Patrick Balt-- 1177 00:49:11,667 --> 00:49:14,667 I remember saying that. 1178 00:49:14,750 --> 00:49:16,250 And then there's a time, you know, 1179 00:49:16,333 --> 00:49:17,875 I don't believe Wayne Williams killed nobody. 1180 00:49:17,959 --> 00:49:19,917 And then it was a time, yeah, maybe he did kill 1181 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,291 Nathaniel Cater and Jimmy Ray Payne, 1182 00:49:23,375 --> 00:49:26,291 because I have been put in a situation 1183 00:49:26,375 --> 00:49:30,792 that, you know, you don't know what to believe, 1184 00:49:30,875 --> 00:49:32,625 so that means that you just believe 1185 00:49:32,709 --> 00:49:34,625 every damn thing. 1186 00:49:34,709 --> 00:49:36,667 You know, so to hell with that. 1187 00:49:36,750 --> 00:49:38,250 I don't know. 1188 00:49:38,333 --> 00:49:40,458 I wasn't there. 1189 00:49:40,542 --> 00:49:44,125 ♪ ♪ 1190 00:49:44,208 --> 00:49:47,583 - If you look at Wayne Williams' case 1191 00:49:47,667 --> 00:49:50,625 and say, "I don't know what happened," 1192 00:49:50,709 --> 00:49:53,291 "I don't know" 1193 00:49:53,375 --> 00:49:57,625 connects to "not guilty" in our system of law. 1194 00:49:57,709 --> 00:49:59,500 That does not mean he's an innocent man. 1195 00:49:59,583 --> 00:50:06,583 ♪ ♪ 1196 00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:14,041 - Wayne has grown up in jail. 1197 00:50:14,125 --> 00:50:16,834 ♪ ♪ 1198 00:50:16,917 --> 00:50:19,667 If Wayne got out of jail, where would he go? 1199 00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:22,834 Um, I don't--his mother's dead. His father's dead. 1200 00:50:22,917 --> 00:50:25,834 I don't know what kind of life he would have. 1201 00:50:25,917 --> 00:50:30,000 But I think he's entitled to find out. 1202 00:50:30,083 --> 00:50:32,834 ♪ ♪ 1203 00:50:32,917 --> 00:50:37,500 - His parents were supportive of him to the end. 1204 00:50:37,583 --> 00:50:42,000 I just hate that they had to die 1205 00:50:42,083 --> 00:50:45,583 not knowing what had become of their son. 1206 00:50:45,667 --> 00:50:47,917 ♪ ♪ 1207 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,375 - I don't think Atlanta wants him released. 1208 00:50:50,458 --> 00:50:53,834 I don't think they want the case regurgitated, 1209 00:50:53,917 --> 00:50:55,250 brought back up again, 1210 00:50:55,333 --> 00:50:57,125 and I think Wayne is-- 1211 00:50:57,208 --> 00:50:59,041 is gonna be in prison for the rest of his life. 1212 00:50:59,125 --> 00:51:03,208 ♪ ♪ 1213 00:51:03,291 --> 00:51:04,291 - Growing up in America, 1214 00:51:04,375 --> 00:51:05,917 I thought it was the land of opportunity. 1215 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,917 I thought that my people, black people, 1216 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,542 had made our strides during the Civil Rights era. 1217 00:51:11,625 --> 00:51:13,542 We had made progress. 1218 00:51:13,625 --> 00:51:15,917 But after years of this nightmare, 1219 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,709 I have found out that 1220 00:51:17,792 --> 00:51:19,875 there is no justice 1221 00:51:19,959 --> 00:51:21,834 in the criminal justice system 1222 00:51:21,917 --> 00:51:23,875 in the United States of America. 1223 00:51:23,959 --> 00:51:27,417 Nobody's concerned about whether you're innocent 1224 00:51:27,500 --> 00:51:29,125 or whether you're guilty. 1225 00:51:29,208 --> 00:51:33,583 ♪ ♪ 1226 00:51:33,667 --> 00:51:35,750 - He's truly an evil person 1227 00:51:35,834 --> 00:51:38,417 because he presents himself now as being so innocent 1228 00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:40,250 and he's victimizing the families again. 1229 00:51:40,333 --> 00:51:42,875 He killed their kids. Now he's using them again 1230 00:51:42,959 --> 00:51:44,208 to put himself out there and say, 1231 00:51:44,291 --> 00:51:45,417 "Hey, I'm innocent. I didn't do it. 1232 00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:48,792 It's not me." And, you know, it's just... 1233 00:51:48,875 --> 00:51:51,375 They were throwaways. 1234 00:51:51,458 --> 00:51:53,750 You know, their families didn't want them 1235 00:51:53,834 --> 00:51:55,750 or they're out on their own. 1236 00:51:55,834 --> 00:51:56,959 It was sad, you know. 1237 00:51:57,041 --> 00:51:59,875 They're just kids, but they didn't have a chance, 1238 00:51:59,959 --> 00:52:01,792 most of them, and they fell prey 1239 00:52:01,875 --> 00:52:05,083 to this lunatic. 1240 00:52:05,166 --> 00:52:08,083 [high piano music] 1241 00:52:08,166 --> 00:52:09,417 ♪ ♪ 1242 00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:12,125 - I don't want this investigation 1243 00:52:12,208 --> 00:52:13,458 to become 1244 00:52:13,542 --> 00:52:15,875 a "Free Wayne Williams" campaign. 1245 00:52:15,959 --> 00:52:17,625 To the extent that there's evidence 1246 00:52:17,709 --> 00:52:21,083 that shows that it was not him, 1247 00:52:21,166 --> 00:52:24,667 I think that justice will take its course. 1248 00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:28,250 But I really want this to be about the children 1249 00:52:28,333 --> 00:52:32,667 and the unanswered questions for many of the families. 1250 00:52:32,750 --> 00:52:35,041 ♪ ♪ 1251 00:52:35,125 --> 00:52:37,667 - I'm hopeful we find some evidence. 1252 00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:39,500 You know, it's a long shot. 1253 00:52:39,583 --> 00:52:41,500 This is really about being able 1254 00:52:41,583 --> 00:52:44,458 to look at the families, the moms, the dads, 1255 00:52:44,542 --> 00:52:47,625 and say, "We have done everything possible." 1256 00:52:47,709 --> 00:52:50,667 And so we are just very methodically 1257 00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:52,834 pulling in the boxes of evidence, 1258 00:52:52,917 --> 00:52:55,375 looking at the cases chronologically. 1259 00:52:55,458 --> 00:52:58,208 It's gonna take time. 1260 00:52:58,291 --> 00:53:00,959 - 2020, it'll be 40 years. 1261 00:53:01,041 --> 00:53:04,458 They should've did that 40 years ago, 1262 00:53:04,542 --> 00:53:07,000 not 40 years... 1263 00:53:07,083 --> 00:53:09,625 They should've been did it. 1264 00:53:09,709 --> 00:53:11,500 They should've been done something. 1265 00:53:11,583 --> 00:53:14,667 - Come on. 29 to 30 kids, 1266 00:53:14,750 --> 00:53:16,375 and you mean to tell me 1267 00:53:16,458 --> 00:53:18,834 nobody had an answer for 30 kids? 1268 00:53:18,917 --> 00:53:21,875 [mournful music] 1269 00:53:21,959 --> 00:53:23,375 We're not worth it, 1270 00:53:23,458 --> 00:53:26,333 is what you're telling me. 1271 00:53:26,417 --> 00:53:28,667 I want my brother, and I want all the other children, 1272 00:53:28,750 --> 00:53:30,125 to be worth something 1273 00:53:30,208 --> 00:53:32,166 so they can sleep. 1274 00:53:35,125 --> 00:53:36,208 - It's 40 years ago. 1275 00:53:36,291 --> 00:53:38,208 How many people have handled this over the years? 1276 00:53:38,291 --> 00:53:40,417 I don't think they're gonna find anything. 1277 00:53:40,500 --> 00:53:43,166 ♪ ♪ 1278 00:53:43,250 --> 00:53:45,041 - You think that this is really trying 1279 00:53:45,125 --> 00:53:46,417 to get to the bottom of all this? 1280 00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:48,250 - N... 1281 00:53:48,333 --> 00:53:50,709 ♪ ♪ 1282 00:53:50,792 --> 00:53:53,291 No. 1283 00:53:55,625 --> 00:54:00,083 This reinvestigation is about cleaning up, 1284 00:54:00,166 --> 00:54:02,667 just trying to clean up 1285 00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:05,417 the legacy of Atlanta. 1286 00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:08,709 ♪ ♪ 1287 00:54:08,792 --> 00:54:10,291 - The man considered the main suspect 1288 00:54:10,375 --> 00:54:11,709 in the Atlanta child murders 1289 00:54:11,792 --> 00:54:12,875 will stay in prison. 1290 00:54:12,959 --> 00:54:15,083 The state denied Wayne Williams' appeal 1291 00:54:15,166 --> 00:54:16,250 for parole. 1292 00:54:16,333 --> 00:54:20,000 - His next opportunity will be in 2027. 1293 00:54:21,667 --> 00:54:24,417 - Atlanta's a city of images. 1294 00:54:24,500 --> 00:54:26,458 It's a PR place. 1295 00:54:26,542 --> 00:54:28,750 It's what looks good and what we can project 1296 00:54:28,834 --> 00:54:31,250 to the world-- "World's busiest airport." 1297 00:54:31,333 --> 00:54:33,917 ♪ ♪ 1298 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,917 - When this took place, 1299 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,417 Atlanta was on the rise. 1300 00:54:38,500 --> 00:54:43,083 They felt like Atlanta was being attacked 1301 00:54:43,166 --> 00:54:45,625 by us defending Wayne Williams. 1302 00:54:45,709 --> 00:54:47,875 ♪ ♪ 1303 00:54:47,959 --> 00:54:50,250 Everything we brought out, 1304 00:54:50,333 --> 00:54:52,458 people thought about it 1305 00:54:52,542 --> 00:54:54,792 as a reflection on Atlanta. 1306 00:54:54,875 --> 00:55:01,917 ♪ ♪ 1307 00:55:04,709 --> 00:55:07,625 - It's a very different Atlanta now 1308 00:55:07,709 --> 00:55:09,000 because there was a plan 1309 00:55:09,083 --> 00:55:12,291 of what Atlanta was gonna be. 1310 00:55:12,375 --> 00:55:18,125 ♪ ♪ 1311 00:55:18,208 --> 00:55:20,750 - It's kind of crass. 1312 00:55:20,834 --> 00:55:24,458 We want to have the clout and the class, 1313 00:55:24,542 --> 00:55:26,291 but none of the public housing projects 1314 00:55:26,375 --> 00:55:27,834 remain at all. 1315 00:55:29,125 --> 00:55:31,959 They've all been torn down, 1316 00:55:32,041 --> 00:55:33,959 black folks pushed out. 1317 00:55:34,041 --> 00:55:35,750 ♪ ♪ 1318 00:55:35,834 --> 00:55:38,000 And few, if any, of the people who lived there 1319 00:55:38,083 --> 00:55:39,875 found homes there again. 1320 00:55:39,959 --> 00:55:46,583 ♪ ♪ 1321 00:55:59,208 --> 00:56:02,333 - After Clifford passed away, 1322 00:56:02,417 --> 00:56:03,792 we moved across town, 1323 00:56:03,875 --> 00:56:06,041 and then we moved back to Chattanooga. 1324 00:56:07,250 --> 00:56:09,542 I would never move to Atlanta again. 1325 00:56:12,250 --> 00:56:14,500 I'm mad at Atlanta. 1326 00:56:14,583 --> 00:56:18,166 I'm pissed off at Atlanta, for real. 1327 00:56:18,250 --> 00:56:20,208 I just feel like they did our family wrong. 1328 00:56:20,291 --> 00:56:22,500 [somber music] 1329 00:56:22,583 --> 00:56:25,542 When Clifford passed away, 1330 00:56:25,625 --> 00:56:27,417 I almost tried to, like, block it out 1331 00:56:27,500 --> 00:56:29,083 like it was a bad dream. 1332 00:56:29,166 --> 00:56:31,750 ♪ ♪ 1333 00:56:31,834 --> 00:56:34,750 I guess I went into a deep depression. 1334 00:56:34,834 --> 00:56:38,041 ♪ ♪ 1335 00:56:38,125 --> 00:56:40,917 Clifford was buried at the National Cemetery 1336 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,041 in Chattanooga, Tennessee. 1337 00:56:44,125 --> 00:56:45,417 I've never been back over there 1338 00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:47,500 since we buried him. 1339 00:56:48,458 --> 00:56:50,583 I got past it, and... 1340 00:56:50,667 --> 00:56:57,625 ♪ ♪ 1341 00:57:00,166 --> 00:57:02,375 Just holding onto this, it was 1342 00:57:02,458 --> 00:57:04,625 mentally tearing me down. 1343 00:57:04,709 --> 00:57:08,542 ♪ ♪ 1344 00:57:08,625 --> 00:57:10,750 I finally felt like it was time 1345 00:57:10,834 --> 00:57:12,709 to come and see him. 1346 00:57:12,792 --> 00:57:19,208 ♪ ♪ 1347 00:57:29,959 --> 00:57:32,750 I just want the world to know we love Clifford. 1348 00:57:32,834 --> 00:57:39,834 ♪ ♪ 1349 00:57:48,750 --> 00:57:50,667 - Me, personally, myself, 1350 00:57:50,750 --> 00:57:55,083 nothing would give me a peace of mind or closure. 1351 00:57:55,166 --> 00:57:58,917 Just want to know who and why. 1352 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:06,000 ♪ ♪ 1353 00:58:07,875 --> 00:58:10,750 - I think that the notion of closure 1354 00:58:10,834 --> 00:58:14,917 is something that people who are not directly involved 1355 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,875 make up. 1356 00:58:18,583 --> 00:58:20,500 I don't know what constitutes closure 1357 00:58:20,583 --> 00:58:22,250 for a murdered child. 1358 00:58:22,333 --> 00:58:29,542 ♪ ♪ 1359 00:58:30,125 --> 00:58:32,291 - People always talking about closure 1360 00:58:32,375 --> 00:58:34,875 and...mm-mm. 1361 00:58:34,959 --> 00:58:39,041 I can't get with this thing about closure. 1362 00:58:39,125 --> 00:58:41,959 I don't think I'll ever have peace about that, 1363 00:58:42,041 --> 00:58:43,709 about my son. 1364 00:58:43,792 --> 00:58:49,834 ♪ ♪ 1365 00:58:49,917 --> 00:58:52,875 - It's been an emotional kind of afternoon 1366 00:58:52,959 --> 00:58:54,834 because a lot of families are seeing each other 1367 00:58:54,917 --> 00:58:58,875 for the first time in almost 40 years. 1368 00:58:58,959 --> 00:59:04,333 ♪ ♪ 1369 00:59:04,417 --> 00:59:06,917 - Good afternoon. all: Good afternoon. 1370 00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,542 - My name is Catherine Leach Bell. 1371 00:59:09,625 --> 00:59:11,625 I'm the mother of Curtis Walker. 1372 00:59:12,792 --> 00:59:15,959 Curtis was very important. 1373 00:59:16,041 --> 00:59:20,041 He was a black America child. 1374 00:59:20,125 --> 00:59:22,875 And someone took him from me. 1375 00:59:22,959 --> 00:59:26,667 Now, that's a pain that no one will ever forget. 1376 00:59:26,750 --> 00:59:28,709 [up-tempo music] 1377 00:59:28,792 --> 00:59:30,375 'Cause seemed like nobody cared 1378 00:59:30,458 --> 00:59:33,417 nothing about what I was going through, not nobody. 1379 00:59:33,500 --> 00:59:35,917 ♪ ♪ 1380 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,542 But I didn't give up. 1381 00:59:37,625 --> 00:59:39,917 I kept going. 1382 00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,417 ♪ ♪ 1383 00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:44,083 - It hurts. 1384 00:59:44,166 --> 00:59:46,166 You're losing a child and being killed like that, 1385 00:59:46,250 --> 00:59:48,709 and you don't know why he being killed like that. 1386 00:59:48,792 --> 00:59:49,959 - It hurts. 1387 00:59:50,041 --> 00:59:51,417 - You don't know why would anybody 1388 00:59:51,500 --> 00:59:53,041 do something to a child like that. 1389 00:59:53,125 --> 00:59:55,959 That's a sick maniac. - Come on now, come on. 1390 00:59:56,041 --> 00:59:57,375 - That's right. - We went through it 1391 00:59:57,458 --> 00:59:59,917 40 long years, but guess what. 1392 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,542 We can go through it 40 more long years. 1393 01:00:01,625 --> 01:00:02,750 - That's right. 1394 01:00:02,834 --> 01:00:04,083 - Until the end. 1395 01:00:04,166 --> 01:00:05,667 - Till the end. - Till the end. 1396 01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:07,041 Until he be caught. 1397 01:00:07,125 --> 01:00:08,583 - Say it! 1398 01:00:08,667 --> 01:00:09,583 - We can't give up. 1399 01:00:09,667 --> 01:00:11,959 When we die, we can't do nothing about it. 1400 01:00:12,041 --> 01:00:14,542 But long as breath is in our body, 1401 01:00:14,625 --> 01:00:17,083 we got our rights to find out who did this. 1402 01:00:17,166 --> 01:00:20,125 [dramatic music] 1403 01:00:20,208 --> 01:00:27,166 ♪ ♪ 1404 01:00:33,542 --> 01:00:36,458 [emotional string music] 1405 01:00:36,542 --> 01:00:43,542 ♪ ♪ 1406 01:01:17,417 --> 01:01:19,417 [bright tone] 94688

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