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DAVID: My name is Dave Paulides
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and I'm a former
police detective
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00:00:32,584 --> 00:00:33,964
and current
investigative author
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00:00:33,999 --> 00:00:36,933
focused primarily
on mysterious disappearances
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00:00:36,967 --> 00:00:38,762
in the North American
wilderness.
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00:00:43,284 --> 00:00:45,114
MAN: [SHOUTING] Melvin!
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DAVID: My journey into the disappearances
began when I was visiting a national park
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and was approached by two park
rangers who knew I was an author.
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00:00:52,397 --> 00:00:57,402
They described strange circumstances
over the years involving missing hikers.
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I immediately began looking
into the phenomenon.
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Eight years
and eight books later,
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I've now researched 1200
cases that fit the profile
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we are about to examine.
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00:01:08,102 --> 00:01:11,588
While these cases involve people
of all ages and all walks of life,
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I've chosen to present some
of the most intriguing cases
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involving hunters.
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Generally speaking,
hunters are very experienced,
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aware, and knowledgeable
outdoorsmen.
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And so, when one vanishes,
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you know something unusual
has occurred.
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One of the most perplexing
cases I've examined
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involves a hunter named
Thomas Messick,
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who in 2015, went missing
in North-East New York.
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DAVID: For people
who don't know,
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the FBI doesn't investigate
missing adults.
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00:02:03,330 --> 00:02:07,679
There's a sub-category for the
FBI, that they can become involved
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00:02:07,713 --> 00:02:10,164
in the disappearance
of extremely young children
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under a certain set of criteria.
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00:02:13,478 --> 00:02:17,137
So, the million dollar question
is, why would the FBI arrive
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00:02:17,171 --> 00:02:18,724
on Tom Messick's case?
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WIFE: He loved the outdoors.
He loved being in the woods.
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Hunting and fishing
was his life.
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You want a cookie, honey?
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BEVERLY: He was a very good
husband, very good father.
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00:03:02,354 --> 00:03:05,564
And I don't think
you will find anybody
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who ever met him
who didn't like him.
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DAVID: And how many kids
did you guys have?
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BEVERLY: We had three sons.
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Tommy, Jean, and Rob.
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So, tell me about your dad.
What kind of guy was he?
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00:03:20,269 --> 00:03:25,135
He was kinda, "Do what you got
to go to get things done."
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Never had a contractor in the house.
We always did everything.
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You name it.
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We lifted the house up,
put a foundation under it.
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When I was digging it out,
I looked up at him,
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he had a cup of coffee
in his hand
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and I said,
"Why don't we get a backhoe?"
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And he said,
"I have one, right there."
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[BOTH LAUGH]
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What did you guys like to do
as a family?
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We camped.
We did a lot of camping.
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And the boys loved it
and, you know,
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I was kind of the outsider
because they were boys
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and they hunted and fished
and did those things.
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SID: I knew Tom
before we earned enough
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00:04:01,758 --> 00:04:03,829
'cause he used
to work in Norton with me.
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00:04:05,175 --> 00:04:08,972
I knew him probably about 55
years or somewhere around there.
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DAVID: What did you guys like
to do together?
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Hunt. Hunt and fish.
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00:04:13,701 --> 00:04:15,634
It's what we did
all the time, really.
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00:04:15,669 --> 00:04:18,948
[SID'S WIFE SPEAKING]
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Yeah, we both had trailers
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00:04:21,985 --> 00:04:26,127
in which we used to go trailing
all the time, come to think of it.
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00:04:26,162 --> 00:04:28,268
We all got
the same vacation in Norton,
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00:04:28,302 --> 00:04:33,928
so we all took off and went
to different places like that.
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00:04:33,963 --> 00:04:37,277
So, what was your introduction
to the outdoors?
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00:04:37,311 --> 00:04:41,867
It was always there because my
father always hunted and fished.
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00:04:41,902 --> 00:04:46,596
ROB: We got a camp up North,
not far from Brant Lake,
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00:04:46,631 --> 00:04:48,805
for about a week every year.
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A bunch of guys get together
and go hunting.
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00:05:00,990 --> 00:05:03,889
BEVERLY: He taught hunter
training for a long time.
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00:05:03,924 --> 00:05:08,308
He probably taught every one
of the kids around here.
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00:05:08,342 --> 00:05:12,001
SID: Tom was a great guy.
He was an old airborne Ranger.
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He was unbelievable
in the woods.
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He taught my hunting class for
me to get my hunting license.
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He taught survival.
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00:05:19,284 --> 00:05:21,804
BEVERLY: He had gunpowder
blow up in his face,
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00:05:21,838 --> 00:05:23,012
and that's how he lost...
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He had a 159 stitches
in his hand
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00:05:26,774 --> 00:05:28,845
and he lost his eye that way.
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00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,709
So, he would say to these kids,
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"This is what happens
if you're not careful."
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00:05:33,263 --> 00:05:35,196
I mean, he had a lot of issues
over the years,
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00:05:35,231 --> 00:05:39,028
but it never really seemed
to slow him down or anything.
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00:05:39,787 --> 00:05:42,031
So, obviously, he had one eye.
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00:05:42,065 --> 00:05:43,170
Yeah.
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He was sort of blind,
it wasn't really that great,
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but he could actually see
out of it.
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00:05:46,967 --> 00:05:48,520
And hearing was an issue?
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00:05:48,555 --> 00:05:49,763
He wasn't
that great with hearing.
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00:05:49,797 --> 00:05:51,937
Hearing,
he needed hearing aids.
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00:05:51,972 --> 00:05:55,182
Would Tom be the kind of guy
who would drink a lot or...
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00:05:55,216 --> 00:05:58,668
No. He didn't drink
that much, no.
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00:05:58,703 --> 00:06:01,982
So, the day when you guys went hunting,
did you guys drink when you hunt?
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00:06:02,534 --> 00:06:04,294
No.
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00:06:04,329 --> 00:06:07,401
We might have beer
with us in the truck.
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00:06:07,436 --> 00:06:11,750
Out in the woods, we might have
a beer or something like that.
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00:06:11,785 --> 00:06:14,304
Nothing excessive, you know?
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00:06:14,339 --> 00:06:17,307
How would you describe
your dad's judgment?
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It was good.
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ROB: In fact,
it was probably one of his better days
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I had seen in a long time.
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00:06:24,970 --> 00:06:28,457
He was in good spirits
and moving great.
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00:06:28,491 --> 00:06:32,253
Didn't seem to even have an
ache or pain in him that day.
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He was moving good.
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DAVID: How often
do you think about it?
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00:06:44,852 --> 00:06:46,923
I just think about it, well...
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SID: You know,
it always pops into your mind.
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We were doing
just kind of a quick thing.
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It was late actually.
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Almost lunchtime by the time
we ended up going up there.
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00:07:03,112 --> 00:07:05,597
Kind of just a two-hour thing
until evening
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and we were going to go back to camp
and hunt around the camp until dark.
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DAVID: How many guys
went up there that day?
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Seven.
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Someone made the decision
to hunt over by Brant Lake.
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00:07:21,648 --> 00:07:22,580
Who made that decision?
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I did.
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SID: I messaged that we
had state land there.
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00:07:27,239 --> 00:07:30,484
We kind of agreed to hunt it.
The roads of Lily Pond.
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I mean, we go up that road,
straight to the lake
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00:07:45,085 --> 00:07:47,708
and we parked
right at the lake.
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And the old guys literally
walked down that road
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in hundred yard increments.
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00:07:58,063 --> 00:08:02,827
We walked in 30, 40 yards
at the most and sat down.
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00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:12,837
Al was the first watcher.
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00:08:12,871 --> 00:08:14,252
I was the second.
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00:08:14,942 --> 00:08:17,255
Joe Capacelli, and then Tom.
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00:08:18,187 --> 00:08:19,878
So, Tom was furthest
from the lake?
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00:08:19,913 --> 00:08:21,880
He was the furthest one.
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00:08:21,915 --> 00:08:24,055
We followed the trail along
the lake,
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00:08:24,089 --> 00:08:26,160
come up that snowmobile trail,
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00:08:26,195 --> 00:08:28,335
hopped into the woods,
and swung up to him.
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00:08:28,369 --> 00:08:31,027
A slow
hunt-and-drive type thing.
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00:08:32,477 --> 00:08:35,445
BEVERLY: The young boys said
to the old men,
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00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,240
"You four sit here,
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00:08:37,275 --> 00:08:40,865
and if we see any deer,
we'll push them towards you."
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00:08:40,899 --> 00:08:44,593
And if Tom was a watcher,
Tom would not have moved.
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00:08:44,627 --> 00:08:46,698
I know that for a fact.
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He was a watcher,
that's where he was.
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00:09:03,128 --> 00:09:05,717
- DAVID: Did you see any deer?
- SID: None at all.
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00:09:05,752 --> 00:09:08,582
- No.
- Did you hear anything?
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00:09:08,617 --> 00:09:13,104
I heard a strange noise in the
woods, but I don't know what it was.
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00:09:13,138 --> 00:09:16,935
Just a different noise from what
I usually hear, you know?
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00:09:16,970 --> 00:09:18,178
DAVID: Like what?
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00:09:19,904 --> 00:09:22,044
It'd be hard
to explain because...
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00:09:22,078 --> 00:09:23,390
But it was different.
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00:09:23,424 --> 00:09:26,427
Something different that I never
heard before in the woods.
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00:09:28,153 --> 00:09:30,466
I just can't say what it was,
you know?
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00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:33,607
How long in duration was it?
Was it two or three seconds?
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00:09:33,642 --> 00:09:35,575
No, it's just...
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00:09:35,609 --> 00:09:36,921
Whatever it is, you know?
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00:09:38,267 --> 00:09:40,234
DAVID: How far away was it?
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00:09:40,269 --> 00:09:44,307
SID: I'd say it was probably 150
yards, something like that.
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DAVID: Was it toward Tom,
or away from Tom?
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00:09:46,378 --> 00:09:49,899
SID: This was up towards the hill.
The top of the hill. Yeah.
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00:09:49,934 --> 00:09:51,521
DAVID: Did you tell
the cops this?
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00:09:51,556 --> 00:09:52,453
Yeah, I told them that.
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00:09:52,488 --> 00:09:55,215
But they just passed it off,
you know?
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00:09:58,770 --> 00:10:01,739
DAVID: The report said that your
dad was carrying a walkie-talkie?
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00:10:01,773 --> 00:10:03,603
- ROB: Yeah.
- DAVID: Who else had one?
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00:10:03,637 --> 00:10:04,673
We all did.
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00:10:04,707 --> 00:10:06,813
- All on the same channel?
- Yup.
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00:10:06,847 --> 00:10:08,504
- Anybody ever hear anything?
- No.
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00:10:10,299 --> 00:10:11,645
DAVID: Did your dad know
how to use it?
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00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:12,612
ROB: Yep.
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00:10:24,589 --> 00:10:26,936
MAN: Tom? Tom, you around?
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00:10:26,971 --> 00:10:30,664
ROB: It's one of those things where,
you know, he should have been out by now.
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00:10:30,699 --> 00:10:32,045
SID: We called and called.
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00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:34,841
You know, he should have been
sitting on the watch.
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00:10:34,875 --> 00:10:36,463
MAN: Can you hear me?
Holler back.
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00:10:36,497 --> 00:10:38,499
ROB: And then we went
and started looking for him.
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00:10:44,367 --> 00:10:45,679
DAVID: Anybody fire any shots?
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00:10:45,714 --> 00:10:47,992
ROB: Yep, we fired shots.
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00:10:49,407 --> 00:10:51,167
[GUNSHOT]
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00:10:52,755 --> 00:10:55,171
[GUNSHOT]
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00:10:55,206 --> 00:10:57,795
ROB: Somebody went down
and called the rangers,
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00:10:57,829 --> 00:10:59,348
and then, we just kept looking.
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00:11:02,869 --> 00:11:04,180
MAN: [SHOUTING] Tom!
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00:11:15,847 --> 00:11:19,506
SID: They stayed overnight at the
truck, beeping the horn.
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00:11:19,540 --> 00:11:22,233
I heard shots,
different things.
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00:11:25,754 --> 00:11:29,274
BEVERLY: Robbie called me
that night and said,
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00:11:29,309 --> 00:11:31,725
"Daddy's missing in the
woods, but don't worry,
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00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:32,761
we'll find him."
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00:11:33,762 --> 00:11:36,281
[HORN BEEPING]
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00:11:36,316 --> 00:11:38,214
[GUNSHOT]
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00:11:39,422 --> 00:11:41,114
And I said, "I'm coming up."
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00:11:43,012 --> 00:11:46,878
BEVERLY: And he said, "No, don't come up.
I'm sure we're going to find him
189
00:11:46,913 --> 00:11:48,500
and I'll call you."
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00:11:56,577 --> 00:11:58,303
MATTHEW: The community is
very close-knit,
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00:11:58,338 --> 00:12:00,271
everybody has
pretty much grown up together
192
00:12:00,305 --> 00:12:02,066
and knows everybody.
193
00:12:08,279 --> 00:12:09,659
It's mountainous,
we have lakes,
194
00:12:09,694 --> 00:12:12,490
we've got lots of opportunities
to enjoy yourself.
195
00:12:12,524 --> 00:12:14,078
There's not
a lot of pressure here.
196
00:12:15,907 --> 00:12:17,115
MATTHEW: I came into work
one morning
197
00:12:17,150 --> 00:12:20,498
and I noticed
a State Police helicopter
198
00:12:20,532 --> 00:12:23,881
had landed in our ball field,
right here behind the town hall.
199
00:12:23,915 --> 00:12:26,746
And then, I could see
some rangers
200
00:12:26,780 --> 00:12:28,575
ranging in our parking lot.
201
00:12:28,609 --> 00:12:31,889
Their vehicles and
different apparatus and...
202
00:12:31,923 --> 00:12:33,476
I questioned what was going on
203
00:12:33,511 --> 00:12:36,100
and they said there was a
hunter that had been missing.
204
00:12:50,114 --> 00:12:51,909
SHAUN: We did note that
when we were up there,
205
00:12:51,943 --> 00:12:53,807
it seemed to be
devoid of wildlife.
206
00:12:53,842 --> 00:12:57,466
You know, we didn't see
squirrels, chipmunks, deer...
207
00:12:58,743 --> 00:13:00,089
or any signs of them.
208
00:13:00,124 --> 00:13:02,298
How unusual is that
for your mountains out here?
209
00:13:03,817 --> 00:13:05,681
I thought it was strange.
210
00:13:05,715 --> 00:13:08,788
Like I said, we didn't see signs
of anything out there.
211
00:13:08,822 --> 00:13:10,790
DAVID: How many people
did Warren County commit?
212
00:13:10,824 --> 00:13:13,206
We had our Emergency Response
Team up there,
213
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,691
which is comprised
of 13 team members.
214
00:13:15,725 --> 00:13:18,280
DAVID: So, when you heard
about it, what did you do?
215
00:13:18,314 --> 00:13:20,834
Go up there and join the search.
216
00:13:20,869 --> 00:13:22,387
I figured it would be...
217
00:13:22,422 --> 00:13:25,425
We'd go up there and we'd find
him and it'd be over, you know?
218
00:13:26,771 --> 00:13:30,188
SID: The Air National Guard
was going over with infrared.
219
00:13:30,223 --> 00:13:33,502
State Police had helicopters
with a guy out.
220
00:13:33,536 --> 00:13:35,642
We walked through the woods,
no matter how thick they were.
221
00:13:35,676 --> 00:13:37,886
You had to see the other
guy's ankle.
222
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,820
We went through some terrain
you just wouldn't believe,
223
00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:42,476
swamps up to your chest,
224
00:13:42,511 --> 00:13:43,892
and we covered every bit of it.
225
00:13:46,756 --> 00:13:51,554
BEVERLY: They were thinking, maybe he
got to a road and got hit by a car.
226
00:13:51,589 --> 00:13:54,695
And so, they checked on
the sides of the roads
227
00:13:54,730 --> 00:13:56,663
and never found anything.
228
00:13:56,697 --> 00:14:00,425
The first couple of days, I thought
for sure we're going to find him.
229
00:14:01,944 --> 00:14:05,189
After about the third or fourth,
I said, "Boy, this ain't good."
230
00:14:07,708 --> 00:14:10,780
A mile out, we were
still me to you away.
231
00:14:10,815 --> 00:14:13,162
Walking through the woods,
you'd trip over somebody,
232
00:14:13,197 --> 00:14:15,440
nevermind not see him.
233
00:14:15,475 --> 00:14:17,511
We would have what they call
"bump lines."
234
00:14:17,546 --> 00:14:20,860
Lines that they would
run through the forest
235
00:14:20,894 --> 00:14:23,586
and we knew that was like a
start and a stop.
236
00:14:23,621 --> 00:14:25,588
ROB: Guy in the end had
a roll of string
237
00:14:25,623 --> 00:14:27,936
and would tie it to a tree
and just keep walking.
238
00:14:27,970 --> 00:14:29,765
And when we're done with that
grid, they'd tie it off
239
00:14:29,799 --> 00:14:31,767
and then everybody would
shift to the other side
240
00:14:32,561 --> 00:14:34,218
and walk back.
241
00:14:34,252 --> 00:14:36,876
And so you know between this
string line and this string line
242
00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:38,360
and between your bump lines,
243
00:14:38,394 --> 00:14:40,465
that area has been covered.
244
00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:42,882
And few days later, we were back
to the same barriers
245
00:14:42,916 --> 00:14:44,538
and did them the other way.
246
00:14:44,573 --> 00:14:48,439
SID: I mean, we covered every
inch of ground up there.
247
00:14:48,473 --> 00:14:51,614
The immediate area
looked like a spider web,
248
00:14:51,649 --> 00:14:55,377
because not only did they
go this way or this way,
249
00:14:55,411 --> 00:14:56,896
and they went that way.
250
00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:58,380
So, there was string everywhere.
251
00:14:58,414 --> 00:15:01,348
They had 300 people
in there one day.
252
00:15:02,073 --> 00:15:03,626
ROB: People asked who he was.
253
00:15:03,661 --> 00:15:05,766
If he was a governor's
brother, or something.
254
00:15:06,422 --> 00:15:07,665
It was incredible.
255
00:15:09,425 --> 00:15:12,912
DAVID: How many jurisdictions do
you think responded to this search?
256
00:15:12,946 --> 00:15:17,054
DOUG: There was probably a dozen
or so volunteer fire departments
257
00:15:17,088 --> 00:15:18,469
that had members here.
258
00:15:18,503 --> 00:15:23,232
Probably 50 or 60 altogether
in different organizations.
259
00:15:23,267 --> 00:15:25,510
- DAVID: That's huge.
- DOUG: Yeah.
260
00:15:25,545 --> 00:15:29,307
New York State Corrections came out
and they searched with their dogs.
261
00:15:29,342 --> 00:15:32,586
There were tonnes of volunteer
search and rescue teams
262
00:15:32,621 --> 00:15:34,588
that came out
with their K-9 units.
263
00:15:34,623 --> 00:15:37,867
I mean, they... For a little
while, but not for very long.
264
00:15:37,902 --> 00:15:40,940
Day two that we were involved
in the search up there,
265
00:15:40,974 --> 00:15:43,183
it rained heavily all day.
266
00:15:43,218 --> 00:15:46,946
Obviously, an animal didn't get to
him, because there'd be a big scatter.
267
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:49,431
There'd be a huge, you know...
His clothes would be ripped up,
268
00:15:49,465 --> 00:15:51,467
his stuff would spread be all
over. He'd be easy to find.
269
00:15:55,540 --> 00:15:57,991
BEVERLY: Not even
a candy wrapper.
270
00:15:58,026 --> 00:16:00,960
Not that my husband would throw
out a candy wrapper,
271
00:16:00,994 --> 00:16:02,133
'cause he wouldn't.
272
00:16:02,168 --> 00:16:03,583
That would be in his pocket.
273
00:16:04,135 --> 00:16:05,516
But, nothing.
274
00:16:05,550 --> 00:16:08,105
Not the walkie-talkie,
not his gun.
275
00:16:08,139 --> 00:16:10,314
They never found anything.
276
00:16:10,348 --> 00:16:12,178
You would think that
you'd find some trace
277
00:16:12,212 --> 00:16:13,973
of somebody who was there,
278
00:16:14,007 --> 00:16:14,974
especially a weapon,
279
00:16:15,008 --> 00:16:17,390
because a weapon
is not going to disappear.
280
00:16:17,424 --> 00:16:18,667
It's not going to blow away.
281
00:16:24,052 --> 00:16:28,504
SHAUN: The FBI, according to their protocol,
doesn't search for missing people.
282
00:16:28,539 --> 00:16:30,886
So, do you understand
why they were there?
283
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,439
I remember they were there.
284
00:16:32,474 --> 00:16:35,718
I thought they were there to provide
some sort of technological support,
285
00:16:35,753 --> 00:16:39,343
but I didn't have
any contact with them myself.
286
00:16:39,377 --> 00:16:41,345
Have you ever had them
on a search that you've done?
287
00:16:41,724 --> 00:16:42,829
No.
288
00:16:42,863 --> 00:16:46,039
You had a conversation
with the FBI, up in Horicon.
289
00:16:46,626 --> 00:16:47,903
What did they tell you?
290
00:16:48,869 --> 00:16:50,250
They said that...
291
00:16:50,285 --> 00:16:52,701
Basically, they were there
to tell me that
292
00:16:52,735 --> 00:16:56,843
he now is considered
a missing person.
293
00:16:56,877 --> 00:17:02,228
And they felt that something
was definitely not right,
294
00:17:02,262 --> 00:17:04,851
but unless and until
295
00:17:04,885 --> 00:17:08,027
they made a recovery,
they wouldn't know what it was.
296
00:17:08,061 --> 00:17:11,444
BEVERLY: That was it.
That's basically what they said.
297
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:16,518
DAVID: In the middle
of the Adirondacks
298
00:17:16,552 --> 00:17:19,072
where an elderly man disappears,
299
00:17:20,004 --> 00:17:22,558
two agents suddenly show up.
300
00:17:23,801 --> 00:17:26,459
They made their way up
to Lily Pond Road
301
00:17:26,493 --> 00:17:30,532
and they started to monitor
this incident.
302
00:17:30,566 --> 00:17:33,362
Every time an FBI agent
arrives at a scene
303
00:17:33,397 --> 00:17:35,364
and is stating that they're
monitoring it,
304
00:17:35,399 --> 00:17:38,471
they're taking notes
and they're writing reports
305
00:17:38,505 --> 00:17:43,614
and those reports go to the
behavioral analysts in Virginia.
306
00:17:43,648 --> 00:17:47,066
And what their job is,
is to look for other cases
307
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:49,965
that match the profile
that they're writing about.
308
00:17:53,969 --> 00:17:57,110
I think they get it.
I think they understand.
309
00:17:57,145 --> 00:18:00,424
And maybe they're trying to put the
pieces together, just as we are.
310
00:18:13,022 --> 00:18:15,163
ROB: We'd kinda like to know
what happened,
311
00:18:15,197 --> 00:18:16,509
but I don't think we ever will.
312
00:18:16,543 --> 00:18:18,718
Even if they found him,
we wouldn't know what happened.
313
00:18:20,306 --> 00:18:22,480
Something odd happened,
obviously.
314
00:18:22,515 --> 00:18:23,792
We just don't know what.
315
00:18:29,625 --> 00:18:32,490
BEVERLY: I was there
until 11 days.
316
00:18:32,525 --> 00:18:34,975
And then, I finally
said to my older son,
317
00:18:35,976 --> 00:18:38,496
"I can't sit here anymore.
I got to go home."
318
00:18:39,463 --> 00:18:42,121
We came back, I think,
for Thanksgiving.
319
00:18:42,155 --> 00:18:44,468
That's when we stopped.
320
00:18:44,502 --> 00:18:48,955
We were down to just me
and some rangers
321
00:18:48,989 --> 00:18:51,199
and couple of other guys, that was
it, by the time it was over.
322
00:18:53,822 --> 00:18:55,789
BEVERLY: He is
such a sweet dog.
323
00:18:55,824 --> 00:19:01,968
He sits at my kitchen window
all day long.
324
00:19:02,002 --> 00:19:04,626
He sits here and he waits
for Tom to come back.
325
00:19:04,660 --> 00:19:08,526
If you go by my house, you'll
see the dog in the window.
326
00:19:08,561 --> 00:19:11,805
Did you dad tell you about a sound
he heard in the woods that day?
327
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,361
He said he heard some kind of
snapping or crack sound
328
00:19:15,395 --> 00:19:16,845
that was strange.
329
00:19:16,879 --> 00:19:18,674
It wasn't something
he normally hears in the woods.
330
00:19:18,709 --> 00:19:20,814
He still talks to me about it.
331
00:19:20,849 --> 00:19:25,094
He almost said it sounded like
a big trap closing or something.
332
00:19:26,406 --> 00:19:29,098
I don't know, you know?
333
00:19:29,133 --> 00:19:33,206
Anything that you think that the
audience should know about your dad
334
00:19:33,241 --> 00:19:34,518
or about this incident?
335
00:19:35,898 --> 00:19:38,004
I tell you, you really
do never know.
336
00:19:38,038 --> 00:19:40,869
I mean, they always say
you should go in prepared.
337
00:19:41,697 --> 00:19:45,080
I mean, we treated that hunt
338
00:19:45,114 --> 00:19:47,186
like I was walking out here
in the backyard.
339
00:19:48,739 --> 00:19:50,258
It was really nothing.
340
00:19:50,292 --> 00:19:53,261
You just don't expect it.
341
00:19:57,955 --> 00:20:01,441
DAVID: An interesting side note to
the disappearance of Tom Messick
342
00:20:01,476 --> 00:20:03,616
is the case of Fred Drumm.
343
00:20:05,721 --> 00:20:11,037
About the tenth day
of Tom Messick's search,
344
00:20:11,071 --> 00:20:14,351
the Department of Conservation
Rangers for the State of New York
345
00:20:14,385 --> 00:20:16,870
were pulled off of that event
346
00:20:16,905 --> 00:20:21,944
and sent 40 miles South
to Schuylerville, New York.
347
00:20:21,979 --> 00:20:25,534
Fred lived on his rural farm
with his wife.
348
00:20:25,569 --> 00:20:28,537
Fred was a retired supervisor
from his town.
349
00:20:28,572 --> 00:20:30,229
Was an outdoorsman.
350
00:20:30,263 --> 00:20:33,956
On Thanksgiving Day of 2015,
351
00:20:33,991 --> 00:20:36,476
Mrs. Drumm went
to attend a banquet,
352
00:20:36,511 --> 00:20:40,825
and when she returned in the
afternoon, her husband wasn't there.
353
00:20:40,860 --> 00:20:44,933
His car was there,
all of his belongings were in the house,
354
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:47,591
but he had simply vanished.
355
00:20:48,281 --> 00:20:50,870
There were helicopters, K-9s,
356
00:20:51,422 --> 00:20:54,114
there was a huge SAR.
357
00:20:55,323 --> 00:20:59,119
And the eventual outcome
was the same as Tom's.
358
00:20:59,154 --> 00:21:03,469
It's quite a coincidence that
two elderly men, both hunters,
359
00:21:03,503 --> 00:21:05,298
disappeared from a rural area,
360
00:21:06,126 --> 00:21:07,611
weren't found,
361
00:21:07,645 --> 00:21:10,234
and both have been just
chalked up to disappearing.
362
00:21:34,327 --> 00:21:37,779
The thing that connects
all of theMissing 411 cases
363
00:21:37,813 --> 00:21:39,263
are the profile points.
364
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,994
And these have been gleaned
after reading thousands of cases
365
00:21:46,028 --> 00:21:49,238
and seeing them come up
time after time,
366
00:21:49,273 --> 00:21:53,346
and realizing that they are
part of the underlying story
367
00:21:53,381 --> 00:21:54,865
of each of these incidents.
368
00:21:57,730 --> 00:21:59,973
If the victim is with others,
369
00:22:00,008 --> 00:22:03,252
and decides to move away from
them and be on their own,
370
00:22:03,287 --> 00:22:08,050
that's the point in time something
happens and the victim disappears.
371
00:22:08,085 --> 00:22:10,190
We call this
the point of separation.
372
00:22:12,020 --> 00:22:14,747
The most common time
for a victim to disappear
373
00:22:14,781 --> 00:22:16,852
is in the mid to late
afternoon hours.
374
00:22:18,509 --> 00:22:20,718
Granite boulders
and rock fields.
375
00:22:20,753 --> 00:22:26,275
Victims are often found to disappear
in the areas of granite or rock fields.
376
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:28,864
Victims found
or disappearing near water...
377
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,108
This is a very common trait
378
00:22:31,142 --> 00:22:33,731
and one that happens
anywhere in the world
379
00:22:33,766 --> 00:22:36,251
and isn't isolated
to a geographical area.
380
00:22:38,115 --> 00:22:40,842
There appears to be
a weather incident
381
00:22:40,876 --> 00:22:44,363
in close proximity to the time
that the person disappears
382
00:22:44,397 --> 00:22:46,365
or when the search starts.
383
00:22:46,399 --> 00:22:48,884
The weather issue could be
anywhere from a dust storm,
384
00:22:48,919 --> 00:22:50,714
to a full-blown blizzard.
385
00:22:51,577 --> 00:22:53,786
Disability or illness.
386
00:22:53,820 --> 00:22:56,892
Often times, the victim is
later found to have
387
00:22:56,927 --> 00:22:58,584
either an obvious,
388
00:22:58,618 --> 00:23:01,414
or a very subliminal disability or illness.
389
00:23:03,243 --> 00:23:06,695
Canines can't find the scent,
or lose the scent quickly.
390
00:23:06,730 --> 00:23:10,078
This is an extremely common
profile point
391
00:23:10,112 --> 00:23:12,805
that's probably in 95
percent of all the cases
392
00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:14,185
that have been documented.
393
00:23:15,808 --> 00:23:18,431
This is an indictment
of Search and Rescue.
394
00:23:18,466 --> 00:23:21,710
But for some unknown reason,
the victims are found in an area
395
00:23:21,745 --> 00:23:24,264
that had been searched
maybe dozens of times.
396
00:23:25,507 --> 00:23:27,233
Clothes, shoes removed.
397
00:23:27,267 --> 00:23:31,410
A common trait is that the victims
are missing clothing or shoes
398
00:23:31,444 --> 00:23:32,756
at the time they're found.
399
00:23:33,619 --> 00:23:34,999
Unknown cause of death.
400
00:23:35,690 --> 00:23:37,450
If the victim is found,
401
00:23:37,485 --> 00:23:41,074
and when they go through
a medical examination,
402
00:23:41,109 --> 00:23:43,318
the coroners can't determine
a cause of death.
403
00:23:44,699 --> 00:23:47,011
And finally, clusters.
404
00:23:47,046 --> 00:23:49,151
There's a geographical
clustering effect
405
00:23:49,186 --> 00:23:52,189
to the victims that fit
theMissing 411 profile.
406
00:23:52,223 --> 00:23:55,917
There can be anywhere from
three to 70 or 80 people
407
00:23:55,951 --> 00:23:57,988
in each geographical cluster.
408
00:24:16,972 --> 00:24:19,872
This is an area that
I've always wanted to come to
409
00:24:19,906 --> 00:24:21,460
for a variety of reasons.
410
00:24:23,047 --> 00:24:25,774
First of all,
it's just drop dead gorgeous.
411
00:24:25,809 --> 00:24:29,053
But also,
it's a regional cluster
412
00:24:29,088 --> 00:24:32,471
of unexplained missing people
going back decades.
413
00:24:53,871 --> 00:24:55,597
This is one of those clusters
414
00:24:56,564 --> 00:24:58,324
of the 59 I've documented
415
00:24:58,358 --> 00:25:01,085
that really has intrigued me
over the years.
416
00:25:04,675 --> 00:25:06,919
And within this
Santa Fe cluster,
417
00:25:06,953 --> 00:25:09,542
we're going to focus on
three very unusual,
418
00:25:09,577 --> 00:25:12,649
very mysterious disappearances.
419
00:25:12,683 --> 00:25:17,619
The first being 75-year-old Audrey
Kaplan who disappeared in July 2014.
420
00:25:20,104 --> 00:25:22,003
She was with her husband,
421
00:25:22,037 --> 00:25:25,454
they had a house here
in Santa Fe.
422
00:25:25,489 --> 00:25:30,183
And they decided to come up to the
ski-resort and look for mushrooms.
423
00:25:30,218 --> 00:25:33,221
It was a popular mushroom
picking site up in here.
424
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,018
And what they did,
425
00:25:37,052 --> 00:25:40,608
is they hiked up the trail
into the wilderness area
426
00:25:40,642 --> 00:25:43,956
and somewhere or another,
they got separated.
427
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:49,617
Audrey, who was in extremely
good shape for an older person,
428
00:25:49,651 --> 00:25:53,586
couldn't be found,
and they started to search for her.
429
00:25:53,621 --> 00:25:56,382
Audrey disappeared July 30th,
430
00:25:56,416 --> 00:25:59,730
one of the hottest months
in the Santa Fe area.
431
00:25:59,765 --> 00:26:04,390
Now, there were thunderstorms
that happened post disappearance.
432
00:26:04,424 --> 00:26:06,461
And that night,
they had searchers on scene
433
00:26:06,495 --> 00:26:08,221
and for the following
several days,
434
00:26:08,256 --> 00:26:10,120
they scoured that mountain.
435
00:26:10,776 --> 00:26:14,227
And eventually, days later,
436
00:26:14,262 --> 00:26:19,612
one searcher,
way off the primary grid area,
437
00:26:19,647 --> 00:26:22,926
came upon a very unusual sight.
438
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,621
He started to see a camping area that
seemed to be pretty much destroyed.
439
00:26:28,656 --> 00:26:34,627
And he walked up and he saw a
woman in the fetal position,
440
00:26:34,662 --> 00:26:38,079
in about four or five inches
of water in a creek,
441
00:26:38,113 --> 00:26:40,288
deceased, naked.
442
00:26:40,322 --> 00:26:42,980
No shoes, no clothing,
no nothing.
443
00:26:43,774 --> 00:26:45,638
Her face was in the creek.
444
00:26:45,673 --> 00:26:49,400
Her entire body was lying on
its side in the fetal position.
445
00:26:50,056 --> 00:26:51,644
A very strange sight.
446
00:27:01,412 --> 00:27:03,622
And the coroner
made a determination
447
00:27:03,656 --> 00:27:06,728
that was even more unusual
than the sight in the creek.
448
00:27:16,496 --> 00:27:19,672
And he said that there
was no physical evidence
449
00:27:19,707 --> 00:27:22,710
that she died of hypothermia.
450
00:27:22,744 --> 00:27:26,852
But the determination was
hypothermia that killed her.
451
00:27:26,886 --> 00:27:30,476
Now, I've read
that report 20 times.
452
00:27:30,510 --> 00:27:32,167
It makes no sense.
453
00:27:32,202 --> 00:27:35,308
She had no distinct injuries
to her body,
454
00:27:35,343 --> 00:27:39,036
that there was no physical
symptoms of hypothermia.
455
00:27:41,832 --> 00:27:47,873
He also stated that in his report,
her face wasn't in the water.
456
00:27:47,907 --> 00:27:50,841
And the crime scene photos
clearly show
457
00:27:50,876 --> 00:27:53,361
Audrey was completely
in that creek.
458
00:27:54,396 --> 00:27:59,263
So, a lot of confusing,
strange aspects
459
00:27:59,298 --> 00:28:01,369
to the Audrey Kaplan
disappearance.
460
00:28:06,961 --> 00:28:11,517
The second story that
involves this exact area
461
00:28:11,551 --> 00:28:14,589
and that's
61-year-old Mel Nadel,
462
00:28:14,623 --> 00:28:17,730
who disappeared
up in the wilderness.
463
00:28:17,765 --> 00:28:21,044
Went up to Elk Mountain in
the Santa Fe National Forest.
464
00:28:21,078 --> 00:28:22,321
Elk hunting.
465
00:29:01,084 --> 00:29:04,121
What kind of wildlife
would somebody find
466
00:29:04,156 --> 00:29:05,640
up in the mountains out here?
467
00:29:05,674 --> 00:29:11,094
We're rich.
Elk, mule deer, bear, lions.
468
00:29:11,128 --> 00:29:12,992
DAVID: And the size of
the elk and the deer?
469
00:29:13,027 --> 00:29:14,407
BOB: Really good,
trophy quality.
470
00:29:14,442 --> 00:29:15,788
Mexico's got
really good animals.
471
00:29:15,823 --> 00:29:18,308
We're stingy on our tags,
it's a draw system.
472
00:29:21,345 --> 00:29:24,072
So, hunting is
a really big sport.
473
00:29:24,107 --> 00:29:26,143
New Mexico is a destination
for elk hunters.
474
00:29:26,178 --> 00:29:29,250
The numbers out there are very small
compared to our western states,
475
00:29:29,284 --> 00:29:31,217
but our hunting quality
is really high.
476
00:29:34,496 --> 00:29:36,705
DAVID: Mel had
a slight knee injury.
477
00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:39,122
He had stepped in a gopher
hole while target practicing
478
00:29:39,156 --> 00:29:40,468
a day or two prior.
479
00:29:42,539 --> 00:29:44,783
Once Mel met up with his
friends at Elk Mountain,
480
00:29:44,817 --> 00:29:48,096
and the three made a plan
for the evening's hunt,
481
00:29:48,131 --> 00:29:51,410
Mel would stick close while the other
two would go on a pretty good hike.
482
00:29:52,066 --> 00:29:53,446
Mel pointed at a group of trees
483
00:29:53,481 --> 00:29:55,794
about a 100 or 150 yards
down the trail,
484
00:29:55,828 --> 00:29:58,141
while the other two would
hike in the opposite direction
485
00:29:58,175 --> 00:29:59,314
toward the peak.
486
00:30:16,849 --> 00:30:18,782
Did you expect him
to come home that night?
487
00:30:21,164 --> 00:30:23,131
No. The following morning
he said he's coming back.
488
00:30:23,166 --> 00:30:24,512
So, he was going
to camp up there?
489
00:30:24,546 --> 00:30:25,340
Yes.
490
00:30:25,375 --> 00:30:26,410
- Spend the night.
- Yeah.
491
00:30:26,445 --> 00:30:27,653
DAVID: And he's done
that before?
492
00:30:27,687 --> 00:30:28,827
Yes.
493
00:30:28,861 --> 00:30:33,072
DAVID: Did Mel ever jog
or walk long distances?
494
00:30:33,107 --> 00:30:34,694
EDNA: No.
495
00:30:34,729 --> 00:30:38,077
DAVID: So, if Mel saw an elk,
he's not going to walk three miles?
496
00:30:38,112 --> 00:30:39,009
No.
497
00:30:39,044 --> 00:30:40,355
He won't do it?
498
00:30:43,186 --> 00:30:44,566
He doesn't like to walk.
499
00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:48,501
So, knowing that,
500
00:30:48,536 --> 00:30:51,194
then that really
puts confinement...
501
00:30:51,228 --> 00:30:53,852
- Yeah.
- ...on where he would have been.
502
00:30:53,886 --> 00:30:54,887
Yeah.
503
00:31:01,204 --> 00:31:03,862
EDNA: He didn't go
hiking with them.
504
00:31:03,896 --> 00:31:08,901
The friends went up the mountain,
like, searching for animals.
505
00:31:08,936 --> 00:31:10,938
And then, when they get down,
506
00:31:11,731 --> 00:31:12,871
the jeep was there,
507
00:31:14,113 --> 00:31:15,390
there was no Mel.
508
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,531
DAVID: But he should
have been back by then.
509
00:31:18,566 --> 00:31:20,775
He should have been there.
510
00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:38,966
MAN: [SHOUTING] Melvin!
511
00:31:41,278 --> 00:31:42,831
MAN: [SHOUTING] Melvin!
512
00:31:45,075 --> 00:31:46,559
MAN: [SHOUTING] Melvin!
513
00:31:46,594 --> 00:31:47,975
[GUNSHOT]
514
00:31:58,192 --> 00:32:00,919
DAVID: Eventually, another hunter
came along with a satellite phone.
515
00:32:00,953 --> 00:32:05,578
They called Search and Rescue,
they responded with K-9s, ground teams.
516
00:32:05,613 --> 00:32:07,511
And the K-9s tracked
right to the spot
517
00:32:07,546 --> 00:32:09,928
where everyone expected
Mel to be, at his blind.
518
00:32:11,101 --> 00:32:13,517
Now, think about this
for a minute.
519
00:32:13,552 --> 00:32:17,590
If Mel had wandered,
maybe shot an elk,
520
00:32:17,625 --> 00:32:19,765
and traveled to look for it,
521
00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:22,664
his tracks and his scent
would be past that point,
522
00:32:22,699 --> 00:32:23,700
but they weren't.
523
00:32:24,528 --> 00:32:26,945
And Mel was carrying a bow.
524
00:32:27,566 --> 00:32:28,877
He was carrying a firearm.
525
00:32:30,017 --> 00:32:31,742
Where are those items?
526
00:32:33,917 --> 00:32:36,333
When he went out hunting,
he had a pistol.
527
00:32:36,989 --> 00:32:38,853
[EDNA SPEAKING]
528
00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:41,373
- Never found the bow?
- No.
529
00:32:41,407 --> 00:32:43,271
- Did they ever find anything?
- No.
530
00:32:43,306 --> 00:32:45,170
- Never found anything?
- No.
531
00:32:45,204 --> 00:32:48,104
That is the bizarre stuff.
532
00:32:48,138 --> 00:32:50,002
How can you carry it
if you get lost?
533
00:32:50,037 --> 00:32:53,695
Isn't it going to get heavy
to hold onto all of it?
534
00:32:55,042 --> 00:32:56,215
There's nothing.
535
00:32:56,250 --> 00:33:00,219
Shoes... One of the arrows
would have fallen,
536
00:33:00,254 --> 00:33:02,877
or the bow has to drop
because those are heavy.
537
00:33:03,671 --> 00:33:05,224
Nothing.
538
00:33:05,259 --> 00:33:08,158
DAVID: Did the Search and
Rescue people say that was odd?
539
00:33:08,193 --> 00:33:09,677
Everybody said it was odd.
540
00:33:11,334 --> 00:33:13,888
There's nothing.
A shred of clothing, nothing.
541
00:33:13,922 --> 00:33:17,719
If he was attacked by a bear,
there's no shred of clothing anywhere.
542
00:33:32,596 --> 00:33:34,840
DAVID: And, Bob,
how many years have you been guiding?
543
00:33:34,874 --> 00:33:37,498
- BOB: This is my 25th year.
- DAVID: 25th year.
544
00:33:37,532 --> 00:33:39,431
DAVID: And how many years
of experience do you have
545
00:33:39,465 --> 00:33:41,260
in the mountains
surrounding Santa Fe?
546
00:33:41,295 --> 00:33:43,676
I'm 53 now,
almost my entire life.
547
00:33:43,711 --> 00:33:44,919
DAVID: I know
you know the story.
548
00:33:44,953 --> 00:33:45,989
BOB: Yeah.
549
00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:47,749
What could have happened to him
in your mind?
550
00:33:47,784 --> 00:33:50,407
Here in New Mexico, Roswell,
alien abduction.
551
00:33:53,755 --> 00:33:54,756
Yeah.
552
00:33:56,379 --> 00:33:58,070
Really, he had
to have gotten a ride out.
553
00:33:58,105 --> 00:34:02,385
He had to have been picked up
or gotten a ride out, I assume.
554
00:34:02,419 --> 00:34:05,629
If he was a mobile person
and a hiking person,
555
00:34:05,664 --> 00:34:08,046
he could just be
so far off target
556
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,393
from where anybody assumed
he was going.
557
00:34:10,427 --> 00:34:12,188
But in his sense,
what we understand,
558
00:34:12,222 --> 00:34:13,810
he probably didn't do that.
559
00:34:13,844 --> 00:34:15,018
DAVID: Right.
560
00:34:15,053 --> 00:34:18,366
He probably didn't take off
on a long march anywhere.
561
00:34:18,401 --> 00:34:20,058
History mystery.
562
00:34:20,092 --> 00:34:22,853
What happens to a big jet
airline in the huge ocean?
563
00:34:27,444 --> 00:34:30,482
DAVID: As strange
as Mel Nadel's case was,
564
00:34:31,517 --> 00:34:33,071
there was another case
565
00:34:34,106 --> 00:34:35,590
much more recently.
566
00:34:36,143 --> 00:34:39,422
On November 7th, 2017,
567
00:34:40,147 --> 00:34:41,631
another hunter disappeared.
568
00:34:45,186 --> 00:34:46,636
Stanley came up to an area
569
00:34:46,670 --> 00:34:49,811
about 10 miles from
where Mel Nadel disappeared.
570
00:34:49,846 --> 00:34:52,469
In an area called
Barillas Peak.
571
00:34:52,504 --> 00:34:57,267
And he was in his vehicle with
his father and another friend
572
00:34:57,302 --> 00:34:59,959
and they were driving the
dirt roads looking for deer.
573
00:35:00,788 --> 00:35:02,928
Deer crossed in front of him,
574
00:35:02,962 --> 00:35:06,449
Stanley jumped out with his
rifle, chasing the deer.
575
00:35:06,483 --> 00:35:09,176
And just as he was
chasing the deer,
576
00:35:09,210 --> 00:35:14,112
fog and heavy rain
simultaneously hit that area
577
00:35:14,146 --> 00:35:15,630
where he disappeared into.
578
00:35:16,907 --> 00:35:19,876
And then he wanders,
apparently.
579
00:35:21,878 --> 00:35:26,538
I've started a seven-day
search for Stanley.
580
00:35:26,572 --> 00:35:28,609
The canines can't
pick up the scent.
581
00:35:28,643 --> 00:35:30,369
Helicopters in the air
can't see him.
582
00:35:30,404 --> 00:35:32,923
Professional trackers
can't find any tracks.
583
00:35:35,478 --> 00:35:37,652
Fast forward five months later,
584
00:35:40,655 --> 00:35:43,175
and an off-duty New Mexico
State police officer
585
00:35:43,210 --> 00:35:45,936
and his son are fishing
on the Pecos River.
586
00:35:47,490 --> 00:35:49,699
They find a body.
587
00:35:52,357 --> 00:35:54,048
He wasn't immediately
identified,
588
00:35:54,082 --> 00:35:56,844
but the coroner eventually
came around
589
00:35:56,878 --> 00:36:02,160
to say that it was and that
he had some skull injuries
590
00:36:02,194 --> 00:36:03,264
and he had two broken ribs.
591
00:36:04,576 --> 00:36:06,060
Presumption was
that he drowned.
592
00:36:09,684 --> 00:36:14,482
Stanley's body was found nine
miles from his point of separation.
593
00:36:14,517 --> 00:36:19,107
It's another weird disappearance
with this one just happening.
594
00:36:20,350 --> 00:36:22,697
Especially in these
cluster zones,
595
00:36:22,732 --> 00:36:24,975
this is one of those
recurring phenomena.
596
00:36:27,288 --> 00:36:30,049
It's going to happen again.
It's just a matter of time.
597
00:36:32,397 --> 00:36:33,777
In talking with Edna,
598
00:36:33,812 --> 00:36:36,815
one of the things they found in
Mel's jeep was his GPS.
599
00:36:37,816 --> 00:36:40,405
Now, that's an important device
600
00:36:40,439 --> 00:36:44,547
that will help you get back to the
point where you started the hike
601
00:36:44,581 --> 00:36:47,860
and it's supposed to be
a trail guide for you.
602
00:36:47,895 --> 00:36:50,346
Now, personally,
I don't think it's unusual
603
00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:52,071
that Mel didn't take that,
604
00:36:52,727 --> 00:36:54,281
because he knew in himself
605
00:36:54,315 --> 00:36:57,663
that he was only going to walk a
100 or 150 yards down that trail.
606
00:36:59,631 --> 00:37:02,703
If you're going to purchase
a GPS device,
607
00:37:02,737 --> 00:37:05,292
consider it
your insurance plan.
608
00:37:05,326 --> 00:37:07,639
And this is an example
609
00:37:07,673 --> 00:37:11,436
of why you should always carry
that insurance plan with you
610
00:37:11,470 --> 00:37:13,369
whenever you go
into the wilderness,
611
00:37:13,403 --> 00:37:16,130
hiking, hunting,
or sightseeing.
612
00:37:18,926 --> 00:37:21,722
BOB: We're paid to hunt
for a five-day period.
613
00:37:21,756 --> 00:37:23,827
So we make sure
people pack the right gear
614
00:37:23,862 --> 00:37:26,244
to be able to stay in
the field all five days.
615
00:37:26,278 --> 00:37:28,798
Therefore increase our odds
the highest possible.
616
00:37:28,832 --> 00:37:32,664
And so, our basic packing list
617
00:37:32,698 --> 00:37:36,392
that I expect hunters
to carry in the field
618
00:37:36,426 --> 00:37:40,292
has a hunting license and has a
bottle of water they're drinking.
619
00:37:40,327 --> 00:37:42,743
It has a bottle of water you're
not planning on drinking.
620
00:37:42,777 --> 00:37:44,158
It has a garbage bag.
621
00:37:44,192 --> 00:37:46,264
That's the most useful
wilderness tool in the world
622
00:37:46,298 --> 00:37:50,302
for a raincoat, to sit on,
to pack something in.
623
00:37:50,337 --> 00:37:53,512
LAURAN: As a hunter, you're like,
"I'm fine. I'm armed, I'm safe.
624
00:37:53,547 --> 00:37:56,757
I'm the baddest thing out here
because I have a firearm with me."
625
00:37:56,791 --> 00:37:58,621
And then, you read
more and more
626
00:37:58,655 --> 00:38:00,347
and these are people
that are more experienced.
627
00:38:00,381 --> 00:38:02,935
They've been in the woods
more than I have, you know?
628
00:38:02,970 --> 00:38:06,422
There's no reason
for why these people go missing.
629
00:38:06,456 --> 00:38:09,597
And you're like, "Okay,
I'm going to pack things differently."
630
00:38:09,632 --> 00:38:11,323
You change your whole mindset.
631
00:38:11,358 --> 00:38:13,670
Take advantage of the technology
that you're given today.
632
00:38:13,705 --> 00:38:17,156
You've got the sat phone,
you've got GPS, you've got all that.
633
00:38:17,191 --> 00:38:20,332
But then, if you don't want to have
to rely on a cell phone signal,
634
00:38:20,367 --> 00:38:22,334
if your battery dies
or something like that,
635
00:38:22,369 --> 00:38:24,888
you know, I've got a whistle,
I've got a knife.
636
00:38:24,923 --> 00:38:26,821
My knife's got a fire starter.
637
00:38:26,856 --> 00:38:27,995
It's just all about,
638
00:38:28,029 --> 00:38:29,962
"I'm going to be able
to take care of myself."
639
00:38:29,997 --> 00:38:32,517
You know, with the camouflage
patterns available today,
640
00:38:32,551 --> 00:38:35,727
you've got this one on right here,
it's going to be hard to get spotted.
641
00:38:35,761 --> 00:38:37,522
So, carry something
bright with you.
642
00:38:37,556 --> 00:38:39,075
This is a space blanket.
643
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:42,147
And the reason I grab this
'cause it's fluorescent orange,
644
00:38:42,181 --> 00:38:45,564
which is a universal
"here I am" code.
645
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:47,325
DAVID: Tell somebody
where you're going.
646
00:38:47,359 --> 00:38:50,466
Tell somebody that is trusted
that is going to look after you
647
00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:52,191
and tell them what time
you're going to be out.
648
00:38:52,226 --> 00:38:54,987
And if you're not out by then
and you're not calling them,
649
00:38:55,022 --> 00:38:56,230
say it's Lauran that you told,
650
00:38:56,264 --> 00:38:58,991
then Lauran you know
is going to call the authorities
651
00:38:59,026 --> 00:39:00,890
to come out there and look for
you. Super important.
652
00:39:00,924 --> 00:39:04,238
It is and I've heard you
say this many times.
653
00:39:04,272 --> 00:39:06,758
Especially writing
about Missing 411.
654
00:39:06,792 --> 00:39:08,932
Check the weather.
655
00:39:08,967 --> 00:39:12,488
If you do get lost,
it's common sense to stay put.
656
00:39:12,522 --> 00:39:14,490
Stay close
to where you started.
657
00:39:14,524 --> 00:39:17,113
Especially
if you told somebody.
658
00:39:17,147 --> 00:39:19,357
And you don't want to lay
your pack down,
659
00:39:19,391 --> 00:39:22,946
but one thing I will never
compromise on is extra ammo.
660
00:39:22,981 --> 00:39:25,535
There's a three-shot rule
that a lot of people might...
661
00:39:25,570 --> 00:39:28,262
I don't even think they still
teach it in hunter safety course.
662
00:39:28,296 --> 00:39:30,540
That's not where I learned it.
I learned it from him.
663
00:39:30,575 --> 00:39:34,233
And it's not only "I'm lost,
three shots, here's where I am."
664
00:39:34,268 --> 00:39:36,408
In addition to that,
if I go missing,
665
00:39:36,443 --> 00:39:38,686
and for whatever reason
I have that extra ammo,
666
00:39:38,721 --> 00:39:40,412
I've used it up,
I've spent my shells,
667
00:39:40,447 --> 00:39:42,794
back at camp,
they can fire those three shots
668
00:39:42,828 --> 00:39:44,105
and you can tune into
669
00:39:44,140 --> 00:39:46,245
"Okay, I need to turn around.
I need to do this."
670
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,903
If you are lost,
the best thing you can possibly do
671
00:39:48,938 --> 00:39:51,423
is get yourself
into an opening.
672
00:39:51,458 --> 00:39:54,599
And I always tell people,
"Take your coat, take something bright,
673
00:39:54,633 --> 00:39:57,878
and wave it around over the top
of your head in a big circle."
674
00:39:57,912 --> 00:39:59,397
Like a set of roller blades
675
00:39:59,431 --> 00:40:01,916
or a rope that you're
spinning over your head.
676
00:40:01,951 --> 00:40:04,747
It's really, really easy
to see that from the air.
677
00:40:06,438 --> 00:40:11,547
Typically, we find,
either the person is alive,
678
00:40:11,581 --> 00:40:14,964
or you know, deceased.
679
00:40:15,861 --> 00:40:19,002
Not very often
do we not find them.
680
00:40:43,130 --> 00:40:45,615
JEANIE: The Crazy Mountains
are a geological upthrust
681
00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:49,757
that is 300 million years younger
than the Rocky Mountain range.
682
00:40:49,792 --> 00:40:51,828
So, they're not part of
the Rocky Mountain range.
683
00:40:51,863 --> 00:40:54,210
They're an isolated
island of mountains.
684
00:40:54,244 --> 00:40:56,108
CHARLIE: If you're
in the Crazies,
685
00:40:56,143 --> 00:40:58,110
I don't care where you're at
in the Crazies,
686
00:40:58,145 --> 00:41:01,182
if you follow a stream down
687
00:41:01,217 --> 00:41:04,703
you're going
to be somewhere soon.
688
00:41:04,738 --> 00:41:06,981
No matter where you are
in these mountains.
689
00:41:07,016 --> 00:41:10,882
Because they're just
an island chain of mountains.
690
00:41:14,851 --> 00:41:20,616
There are several versions of why
the Crazy Mountains are called crazy.
691
00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:26,173
The one I believe is it's a
curse from the Crow Indians.
692
00:41:26,207 --> 00:41:28,796
Because this used
to be Crow reservation
693
00:41:28,831 --> 00:41:31,730
and when they were
moved off the land,
694
00:41:31,765 --> 00:41:35,493
the Crow Indians supposedly put
a curse on the Crazy Mountains
695
00:41:35,527 --> 00:41:39,117
for the wind to blow and
drive the white man crazy.
696
00:41:43,846 --> 00:41:45,572
My name is Alan Ronneberg.
697
00:41:45,606 --> 00:41:49,990
I'm the Undersheriff with the
Sweetgrass County Sheriff's Office.
698
00:41:50,024 --> 00:41:53,545
I'm also the Search
and Rescue coordinator.
699
00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:58,550
I've actually been with Search
and Rescue for 24 years.
700
00:41:58,585 --> 00:42:00,448
I grew up in this community.
701
00:42:00,483 --> 00:42:03,693
I've been here...
I'm 52 years old now.
702
00:42:03,728 --> 00:42:06,006
I've been here all my life.
703
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,940
My parents, grandparents,
great grandparents.
704
00:42:08,974 --> 00:42:11,390
They've been here
since the 1880s.
705
00:42:13,392 --> 00:42:17,673
It's always been an agricultural
and mining community.
706
00:42:17,707 --> 00:42:22,470
The family ranches have been handed
down for over a hundred years
707
00:42:22,505 --> 00:42:24,300
to people that work here,
708
00:42:24,334 --> 00:42:27,061
raise their families here
and their kids stay here.
709
00:42:28,235 --> 00:42:31,272
And a fantastic place
to grow up.
710
00:42:32,929 --> 00:42:34,241
I'm Rebecca Rein.
711
00:42:34,897 --> 00:42:36,208
I'm Charlie Rein.
712
00:42:36,243 --> 00:42:41,144
And we live in Sweetgrass County
in Montana in the Crazies.
713
00:42:42,076 --> 00:42:43,595
DAVID: So, tell us about
the kind of wildlife
714
00:42:43,630 --> 00:42:45,597
that we would expect to see
in the wilderness.
715
00:42:47,012 --> 00:42:49,946
CHARLIE: Deer, white tail,
and mule deer.
716
00:42:49,981 --> 00:42:52,328
Elk, black bear.
717
00:42:52,362 --> 00:42:55,262
I don't see many wolves,
but they're here.
718
00:42:55,296 --> 00:42:56,953
DAVID: So, no grizzlies
up there?
719
00:42:56,988 --> 00:42:58,610
REBECCA: Not that we know of.
720
00:42:58,645 --> 00:43:00,992
CHARLIE: Now, there have been
folks that say they saw grizzlies.
721
00:43:01,026 --> 00:43:06,584
We don't have a resident
population of grizzly bears yet.
722
00:43:06,618 --> 00:43:09,448
I think they're coming,
but there's nothing now.
723
00:43:27,535 --> 00:43:30,297
DAVID: You know,
the Crazies themselves...
724
00:43:31,470 --> 00:43:34,612
are unique.
725
00:43:34,646 --> 00:43:40,997
They are the youngest
mountain range in the country.
726
00:43:41,032 --> 00:43:43,448
It's horrendously rugged.
727
00:43:43,482 --> 00:43:49,247
And you don't really understand
it until you get into it.
728
00:44:18,207 --> 00:44:22,970
ALAN: What supposedly happened
as they started on the trail
729
00:44:23,005 --> 00:44:25,179
going up to Campfire Lake,
730
00:44:25,214 --> 00:44:26,698
they had a horse wreck.
731
00:44:26,733 --> 00:44:30,046
Their mule spooked and
started bucking and throwing
732
00:44:30,081 --> 00:44:32,497
all their supplies
off the trail.
733
00:44:32,531 --> 00:44:35,017
All of Aaron's
camping equipment
734
00:44:35,051 --> 00:44:38,399
was basically on that mule.
735
00:44:38,434 --> 00:44:40,470
I know he lost
his sleeping bag.
736
00:44:41,782 --> 00:44:44,302
DAVID: And once they got into
Campfire Lake, what happened?
737
00:44:45,234 --> 00:44:46,856
ALAN: They started their hunt.
738
00:44:46,891 --> 00:44:51,585
This was their base camp and
they went and hunted from here.
739
00:44:52,448 --> 00:44:54,692
They were planning a week trip.
740
00:44:57,591 --> 00:45:00,698
DAVID: Would you describe
that he had good common sense?
741
00:45:00,732 --> 00:45:03,010
CHRIS: Yeah, Aaron had
good common sense.
742
00:45:03,045 --> 00:45:05,254
Aaron wasn't a dummy.
743
00:45:05,288 --> 00:45:07,739
I mean, someone that comes up
here every other weekend,
744
00:45:07,774 --> 00:45:11,363
always hunts up here,
has stashes up here.
745
00:45:11,398 --> 00:45:14,194
He knows the area
like the back of his hand.
746
00:45:14,228 --> 00:45:18,543
ALAN: They spent two days
here at Campfire Lake.
747
00:45:18,577 --> 00:45:26,033
The one fellow had a cache here,
somewhere, below Sunlight Lake.
748
00:45:26,068 --> 00:45:32,039
So, Aaron was going to go up the
trail, to Sunlight, into the cache
749
00:45:32,074 --> 00:45:34,421
and get what he needed.
750
00:45:34,455 --> 00:45:36,872
He was supposed to go up here,
grab the cache,
751
00:45:36,906 --> 00:45:39,046
and then come down
to his friends.
752
00:45:39,081 --> 00:45:41,152
ALAN: Come back
into Campfire Lake.
753
00:45:50,713 --> 00:45:52,059
ALAN: Later that day,
754
00:45:52,094 --> 00:45:55,683
Nate had called Aaron
on the radio.
755
00:45:55,718 --> 00:45:56,754
He had a walkie-talkie?
756
00:45:56,788 --> 00:45:58,341
Yeah, a walkie-talkie.
757
00:45:58,376 --> 00:46:01,759
Yeah, I think it was a Garmin
Rino is what they call it.
758
00:46:01,793 --> 00:46:05,797
And on that Rino,
there's an LED screen
759
00:46:05,832 --> 00:46:09,525
and it also gives the GPS position
of the person that's talking.
760
00:46:10,733 --> 00:46:13,391
As well as their position.
You know, back and forth.
761
00:46:14,288 --> 00:46:16,808
And when they did that,
762
00:46:16,843 --> 00:46:22,262
the GPS position showed him
on the very edge of the screen
763
00:46:22,296 --> 00:46:26,369
over in this area here,
on the main Sweetgrass trail.
764
00:46:26,404 --> 00:46:28,716
DAVID: Okay,
so that's confusing.
765
00:46:28,751 --> 00:46:30,926
When he gets to the fork
right here...
766
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,479
- ALAN: This fork?
- DAVID: Yeah.
767
00:46:32,513 --> 00:46:35,551
How evident is it that there's a
fork in that trail to the lake?
768
00:46:35,585 --> 00:46:36,690
Very.
769
00:46:36,724 --> 00:46:38,278
So, it's real obvious.
770
00:46:38,312 --> 00:46:40,107
It's very obvious.
771
00:46:40,142 --> 00:46:43,455
DAVID: So, at this point,
where he's down the trail over here,
772
00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:44,974
he's next to a creek, right?
773
00:46:45,009 --> 00:46:46,286
Correct.
774
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,358
And the creek, everyone knows,
runs one direction.
775
00:46:49,392 --> 00:46:50,359
Correct.
776
00:46:50,393 --> 00:46:53,465
So, for him to get
disoriented right here,
777
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:55,882
and not know which direction
he was going on the trail
778
00:46:55,916 --> 00:46:57,021
doesn't make any sense.
779
00:46:57,055 --> 00:46:58,574
No.
780
00:46:58,608 --> 00:47:01,335
DAVID: At what point do they
realize that he's missing?
781
00:47:01,370 --> 00:47:03,682
ALAN: The next day actually.
782
00:47:03,717 --> 00:47:04,856
DAVID: Okay.
783
00:47:04,891 --> 00:47:07,479
ALAN: And they waited
for him for a day
784
00:47:07,514 --> 00:47:09,550
and then looked
for him for a day.
785
00:47:09,585 --> 00:47:12,657
And that's
when the storm starts.
786
00:47:12,691 --> 00:47:16,764
And the storm is coming
in from this way.
787
00:47:16,799 --> 00:47:17,835
DAVID: Gotcha.
788
00:47:17,869 --> 00:47:19,526
How much did it snow?
789
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,564
ALAN: Between 18 to 24 inches
within 12 hours.
790
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:27,672
The temperature was
in the 40s and 50s
791
00:47:27,706 --> 00:47:30,709
and then, all of a sudden,
it was in the teens.
792
00:47:30,744 --> 00:47:33,402
And the snowstorm kinda
forced them out.
793
00:47:34,644 --> 00:47:38,856
We received a call from
one of the individuals
794
00:47:38,890 --> 00:47:39,926
that was hunting with him,
795
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,275
saying that he was overdue
and hadn't come out.
796
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:47,347
You know, they hadn't seen him
for a couple of days.
797
00:47:47,381 --> 00:47:49,418
When they told me
Campfire Lake, I said,
798
00:47:49,452 --> 00:47:51,730
"Well, you need to
get hold of Park County."
799
00:47:52,973 --> 00:47:55,700
DAVID: Park County goes out,
they start a search.
800
00:47:55,734 --> 00:47:58,151
ALAN: They start a search
in their county
801
00:47:58,185 --> 00:48:04,053
and we go ahead in kind of
a military blocking maneuver.
802
00:48:04,088 --> 00:48:08,747
You know, there's still 16 inches
of snow practically melting.
803
00:48:08,782 --> 00:48:11,026
The temperature is getting
better. It's warming up.
804
00:48:12,924 --> 00:48:14,995
We don't find anything.
805
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:16,203
There's a key point.
806
00:48:16,238 --> 00:48:19,275
So, as you guys were
coming up the trail,
807
00:48:19,310 --> 00:48:21,415
you're not seeing
any footprints going out?
808
00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:22,554
- Negative.
- DAVID: Right.
809
00:48:22,589 --> 00:48:24,280
We're here
from Sweetgrass County.
810
00:48:24,315 --> 00:48:26,696
MAN: Alan. Good to see you.
811
00:48:26,731 --> 00:48:31,080
MARK: I believe it was the second
day that I was working there.
812
00:48:31,115 --> 00:48:33,462
I had landed with the deputy
813
00:48:33,496 --> 00:48:37,742
after dropping off two
separate dog teams.
814
00:48:37,776 --> 00:48:40,193
'Cause that terrain
is so steep and so deep,
815
00:48:40,227 --> 00:48:42,436
and very wild country.
816
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,093
Started up high,
817
00:48:44,128 --> 00:48:45,784
and they were going to work
the dog teams coming down,
818
00:48:45,819 --> 00:48:51,445
and there was a girl
with her German shepherd,
819
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,897
I believe that found
a pair of boots.
820
00:48:54,932 --> 00:48:57,831
[WOMAN TALKING ON THE RADIO]
821
00:49:01,869 --> 00:49:04,320
[MAN TALKING ON THE RADIO]
822
00:49:08,842 --> 00:49:10,464
MAN 2: Roger.
823
00:49:10,499 --> 00:49:14,330
This will be the road that
Aaron and his two buddies
824
00:49:14,365 --> 00:49:17,851
drove in on to pick up the horse trailer.
825
00:49:17,885 --> 00:49:21,993
I know they had two horses
and a mule.
826
00:49:28,793 --> 00:49:32,383
So, you guys, the horse wreck
happened right up ahead of us.
827
00:49:33,832 --> 00:49:35,973
So, the trailer is over here
on the right side.
828
00:49:36,007 --> 00:49:37,077
On the right.
829
00:49:37,112 --> 00:49:39,183
Stays on this bench here
for a while.
830
00:49:39,217 --> 00:49:42,117
You get glimpses of it whenever
we go through a meadow.
831
00:49:48,054 --> 00:49:49,814
We're going to make
a right-handed turn, fellas.
832
00:49:49,848 --> 00:49:51,712
And we're going to follow
the rest of the trail here.
833
00:49:51,747 --> 00:49:53,852
You can see where the trail
is right in front of you.
834
00:49:54,232 --> 00:49:55,475
The zig-zag.
835
00:49:56,372 --> 00:49:58,064
You're going
to reveal into Campfire
836
00:49:58,098 --> 00:50:01,550
as soon as you look straight out
on the outside of this cliff.
837
00:50:03,517 --> 00:50:06,934
Their base camp. They're basing
out of Campfire Lake.
838
00:50:12,078 --> 00:50:14,632
So, when you come up here,
you sit up here in you spot
839
00:50:14,666 --> 00:50:16,841
and that's what they were doing.
That spot...
840
00:50:16,875 --> 00:50:18,877
We saw elk
all the time over here.
841
00:50:18,912 --> 00:50:20,051
So, this is loaded.
842
00:50:23,917 --> 00:50:25,712
So, we'll go
down to the bottom.
843
00:50:27,714 --> 00:50:30,889
You can see this kind of
tough country
844
00:50:30,924 --> 00:50:33,202
even on the trail when
you kind of move through.
845
00:50:33,237 --> 00:50:36,412
- It is.
- It's a work out.
846
00:50:36,447 --> 00:50:40,037
Going up and down these trails
is one heck of a work out.
847
00:50:41,935 --> 00:50:44,696
- You could see the trail easily.
- Yeah.
848
00:50:45,352 --> 00:50:46,698
And the trail is like this
849
00:50:46,733 --> 00:50:50,737
all the way from Campfire
over to Sweetgrass.
850
00:50:54,568 --> 00:50:58,089
This is the tee in the trail.
851
00:50:58,124 --> 00:51:00,574
Trail goes through
those rocks right there.
852
00:51:02,990 --> 00:51:05,096
There was fresh snow
on the ground.
853
00:51:06,546 --> 00:51:09,445
It could have been easy
to miss that turn.
854
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,276
He left before it started
to snow, though.
855
00:51:12,310 --> 00:51:13,587
- Oh, did he?
- Yeah.
856
00:51:13,622 --> 00:51:16,383
- Gotcha.
- I think it was bare ground.
857
00:51:16,418 --> 00:51:18,282
When he took off,
858
00:51:18,316 --> 00:51:22,251
it was actually
pretty warm out.
859
00:51:22,286 --> 00:51:24,805
Into the 50s at least.
860
00:51:26,773 --> 00:51:28,775
They were right
at the county line.
861
00:51:28,809 --> 00:51:32,606
We're coming into Sweetgrass
County and leaving Park County.
862
00:51:35,954 --> 00:51:37,956
A lot of boulder fields
through here.
863
00:51:37,991 --> 00:51:39,613
It is, yeah.
864
00:51:39,648 --> 00:51:42,582
And these are all loose.
These aren't set.
865
00:51:42,616 --> 00:51:44,411
They're all loose.
866
00:51:44,446 --> 00:51:46,448
You take one step forward
867
00:51:46,482 --> 00:51:49,796
and you slide two steps back
on each foot.
868
00:51:50,348 --> 00:51:53,006
So, in our search area,
869
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,974
that's what restricted
our search area so much.
870
00:51:56,458 --> 00:51:57,769
It was so small,
871
00:51:57,804 --> 00:52:01,601
because you can't get off of
the trail very far.
872
00:52:01,635 --> 00:52:04,155
You know,
you start going across it's sharp.
873
00:52:04,190 --> 00:52:07,227
If you don't have
a pair of hard sole boots,
874
00:52:07,262 --> 00:52:08,608
they're going to eat your feet.
875
00:52:09,471 --> 00:52:11,921
Even into the timber
876
00:52:11,956 --> 00:52:14,545
is loose rock
all over the place.
877
00:52:16,167 --> 00:52:20,137
Immediately from the boots,
there is a scree pile.
878
00:52:20,171 --> 00:52:24,141
If he was barefoot, he would have
torn up his feet immediately.
879
00:52:26,695 --> 00:52:28,628
Not to the falls, no.
880
00:52:28,662 --> 00:52:30,595
Well, we have to turn around
to see him better.
881
00:52:30,630 --> 00:52:33,288
Yeah, this is the bench
of other falls
882
00:52:33,322 --> 00:52:35,497
where the boots were found.
883
00:52:40,467 --> 00:52:43,436
And this bench
is nice and subtle.
884
00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:45,196
It's kinda protected.
885
00:52:45,231 --> 00:52:46,473
A walk that way into the...
886
00:52:46,508 --> 00:52:48,993
And you're limited
where you can go.
887
00:52:51,996 --> 00:52:53,066
Right there.
888
00:52:54,550 --> 00:52:57,001
- Yeah, he was right over there.
- Those are trees.
889
00:52:57,035 --> 00:52:58,313
Those trees, yeah.
890
00:52:59,037 --> 00:53:00,315
Right in here.
891
00:53:01,868 --> 00:53:05,043
Close to the creek,
there are ways down
892
00:53:05,078 --> 00:53:07,908
into the creek
that you can do it.
893
00:53:09,393 --> 00:53:11,326
Especially underneath
the falls here.
894
00:53:13,224 --> 00:53:16,607
You can get into the...
Into this creek.
895
00:53:18,264 --> 00:53:22,854
Now, when we searched,
we searched this entire flat.
896
00:53:22,889 --> 00:53:24,235
After we found the boots,
897
00:53:24,270 --> 00:53:28,205
we ticked through this
like nobody's business.
898
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:29,654
I had a bunch of people
899
00:53:29,689 --> 00:53:32,588
and they... three searches
900
00:53:32,623 --> 00:53:34,072
is what we did.
901
00:53:38,387 --> 00:53:42,184
ALAN: So, we had evidence here.
902
00:53:42,219 --> 00:53:46,533
At the falls, we find...
See, there's the pair of boots,
903
00:53:46,568 --> 00:53:51,124
I mean, set purposely
side by side.
904
00:53:51,158 --> 00:53:54,886
ALAN: Next to that is
basically a water bladder,
905
00:53:54,921 --> 00:53:58,925
like a Camelbak water bladder.
906
00:54:00,098 --> 00:54:03,136
Just off the trail,
there is a fire pit.
907
00:54:03,170 --> 00:54:08,417
In that fire pit was a partially
burnt cigarette container
908
00:54:08,452 --> 00:54:11,869
that we knew was Aaron's brand.
909
00:54:11,903 --> 00:54:14,630
Also in the immediate vicinity,
910
00:54:14,665 --> 00:54:19,635
a fire bundle partially burnt.
911
00:54:21,396 --> 00:54:24,088
Alongside that,
912
00:54:24,122 --> 00:54:27,919
in the fire pit
were two waist belts
913
00:54:28,610 --> 00:54:30,577
from a backpack.
914
00:54:30,612 --> 00:54:33,408
DAVID: Straps that
come around the back
915
00:54:33,442 --> 00:54:34,788
- and sits on your hips.
- Correct.
916
00:54:34,823 --> 00:54:35,962
Is that what
we're talking about?
917
00:54:35,996 --> 00:54:37,481
That's what
we're talking about. Correct.
918
00:54:37,515 --> 00:54:39,310
DAVID: Why would anybody
take those off?
919
00:54:39,345 --> 00:54:41,036
ALAN: Cut 'em off,
920
00:54:41,070 --> 00:54:43,763
there's a little bit of insulation
in there because they're padded.
921
00:54:43,797 --> 00:54:45,420
And you can slip
your hand in there
922
00:54:45,454 --> 00:54:47,111
for a little bit of protection.
923
00:54:47,145 --> 00:54:48,008
Right.
924
00:54:48,043 --> 00:54:49,700
That's the first thing
we thought of.
925
00:54:50,804 --> 00:54:55,084
That's about the only thing
that made any sense.
926
00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:58,743
Why a person would take
that waist belt off.
927
00:54:58,778 --> 00:55:01,401
DAVID: That must have been a
little confusing to the searchers.
928
00:55:01,436 --> 00:55:02,644
ALAN: Absolutely.
929
00:55:03,645 --> 00:55:05,060
Plus...
930
00:55:06,372 --> 00:55:09,444
I throw another little bit of
rankle in there,
931
00:55:09,478 --> 00:55:13,137
they were up in the same spot
932
00:55:13,171 --> 00:55:16,347
a day or two days before
and never saw it.
933
00:55:16,382 --> 00:55:17,452
Never saw those items.
934
00:55:17,486 --> 00:55:19,454
Never came across those items.
935
00:55:19,488 --> 00:55:20,420
Same spot?
936
00:55:20,455 --> 00:55:22,698
Same people, same spot.
937
00:55:22,733 --> 00:55:25,632
And they said that
they never saw those boots.
938
00:55:25,667 --> 00:55:27,047
They never saw any of that.
939
00:55:27,634 --> 00:55:28,911
How is that possible?
940
00:55:30,672 --> 00:55:31,914
I don't know.
941
00:55:34,261 --> 00:55:36,333
These are seasoned guys.
942
00:55:36,367 --> 00:55:38,127
They do good at their jobs.
943
00:55:38,162 --> 00:55:41,165
They're SARTECH II
rated by NASAR.
944
00:55:41,199 --> 00:55:42,856
They know what the heck
they're doing.
945
00:55:45,203 --> 00:55:48,621
When they see
the waist belt cut off,
946
00:55:48,655 --> 00:55:52,003
and then the items laid out.
947
00:55:53,073 --> 00:55:56,836
It's starting to look
like hypothermia.
948
00:55:56,870 --> 00:56:00,184
If you look at evidence
from hypothermia cases
949
00:56:00,218 --> 00:56:02,842
in the wild,
950
00:56:02,876 --> 00:56:05,189
or in remote areas,
951
00:56:05,223 --> 00:56:10,021
this is kind of the behavior
that you see.
952
00:56:10,056 --> 00:56:13,059
So, I narrow my search
both sides of the creek,
953
00:56:13,093 --> 00:56:17,270
all the way as far up
on the slope as I can get.
954
00:56:17,304 --> 00:56:18,858
Because we didn't think
955
00:56:18,892 --> 00:56:21,654
if he was bad enough
that he was leaving stuff,
956
00:56:21,688 --> 00:56:24,381
he wasn't going to get very far.
957
00:56:24,415 --> 00:56:27,867
So, somebody who is that hypothermic
isn't going to go very far.
958
00:56:27,901 --> 00:56:29,938
You wouldn't think so. No.
959
00:56:29,972 --> 00:56:32,216
So, the area East of the falls.
960
00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:34,287
You guys covered
that pretty thick.
961
00:56:34,321 --> 00:56:35,702
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
962
00:56:35,737 --> 00:56:38,118
We turned over everything.
963
00:56:38,153 --> 00:56:39,568
And you're a former K-9 handler.
964
00:56:39,603 --> 00:56:40,707
Correct.
965
00:56:40,742 --> 00:56:42,468
DAVID: So, did the dogs
hit on anything?
966
00:56:43,883 --> 00:56:45,402
- ALAN: No.
- DAVID: Nothing?
967
00:56:45,436 --> 00:56:46,437
ALAN: Nothing.
968
00:57:10,496 --> 00:57:14,707
CHARLIE: Well, every spring
we maintain our fences,
969
00:57:14,741 --> 00:57:17,123
you know, so we can graze our
cattle the way we want to.
970
00:57:17,157 --> 00:57:18,573
So, it's just an annual
spring thing.
971
00:57:18,607 --> 00:57:22,093
And my father-in-law was here.
He just happened to be with me.
972
00:57:23,163 --> 00:57:26,477
And just, you can see
the ridge up there,
973
00:57:26,512 --> 00:57:29,722
where a section of fence runs
between us and our neighbors
974
00:57:29,756 --> 00:57:32,414
and just annual routine
975
00:57:32,449 --> 00:57:36,901
and I was going over the fence and
he was kind of hiking around and...
976
00:57:36,936 --> 00:57:40,836
REBECCA: He looked down
and he saw an orange vest.
977
00:57:40,871 --> 00:57:42,562
So, he went down
just to go pick it up.
978
00:57:42,597 --> 00:57:46,739
And then, that's when he proceeded to
find the backpack and everything else.
979
00:57:46,773 --> 00:57:49,017
So in his mind, he thought,
980
00:57:49,051 --> 00:57:51,468
"Well, what hunter
lost his stuff up here?"
981
00:57:53,504 --> 00:57:56,369
CHARLIE: And he comes down
off of there just like...
982
00:57:56,403 --> 00:57:58,129
Grinning from ear
to ear, just...
983
00:57:58,164 --> 00:58:00,960
"Hey, was there a hunter
lost up here?"
984
00:58:00,994 --> 00:58:04,032
I'm like, "Yeah,
actually there was."
985
00:58:04,066 --> 00:58:08,830
"Oh, cool! His license
is still in here in his pack."
986
00:58:08,864 --> 00:58:12,316
"Okay." So, I look at it
and it was Aaron Hedges'.
987
00:58:12,350 --> 00:58:14,042
DAVID: Did you
recognize the name?
988
00:58:14,076 --> 00:58:15,630
Oh, yeah.
I recognized the name.
989
00:58:15,664 --> 00:58:18,805
I mean, there were helicopters
flying way up the valley up there
990
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,188
and a big searching
that was in the local press.
991
00:58:22,222 --> 00:58:25,847
DAVID: And inside
was there any food?
992
00:58:25,881 --> 00:58:27,883
CHARLIE: There were snack bars.
993
00:58:27,918 --> 00:58:29,540
DAVID: There was
nutrition inside?
994
00:58:29,575 --> 00:58:30,990
BOTH: Yes.
995
00:58:31,024 --> 00:58:32,647
Correct me if I'm wrong,
996
00:58:32,681 --> 00:58:35,408
but the backpack, I understand,
was actually leaning against a tree.
997
00:58:35,442 --> 00:58:36,547
Correct.
998
00:58:36,582 --> 00:58:38,618
So, somebody just didn't
strip it off and drop it.
999
00:58:38,653 --> 00:58:39,550
No.
1000
00:58:39,585 --> 00:58:41,276
They put it there with intent.
1001
00:58:41,310 --> 00:58:43,174
ALAN: They put it there with intent.
They put it there purposely
1002
00:58:43,209 --> 00:58:44,969
and it was protected.
1003
00:58:45,004 --> 00:58:46,902
DAVID: Okay, and what was
in the backpack?
1004
00:58:46,937 --> 00:58:48,559
I understand you found a gun.
1005
00:58:48,594 --> 00:58:49,802
ALAN: Correct.
1006
00:58:49,836 --> 00:58:52,183
A .44 Ruger Redhawk
I believe it was.
1007
00:58:52,218 --> 00:58:54,013
- DAVID: Find a bow?
- ALAN: Yes.
1008
00:58:54,047 --> 00:58:56,325
It was alongside
the backpack evidently.
1009
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,432
In our search,
another interesting point, I guess...
1010
00:59:01,192 --> 00:59:03,678
When we searched this area,
1011
00:59:04,748 --> 00:59:07,820
here, at the head
of this ridge,
1012
00:59:07,854 --> 00:59:10,754
where it starts to drop off,
1013
00:59:10,788 --> 00:59:13,135
was a cup. A Thermos cup.
1014
00:59:13,895 --> 00:59:15,241
And beside that cup
1015
00:59:15,275 --> 00:59:19,072
was an open energy drink.
1016
00:59:19,763 --> 00:59:22,213
Somebody had, you know,
1017
00:59:22,248 --> 00:59:27,425
had basically sat down
and drank a cup of tea.
1018
00:59:30,049 --> 00:59:31,395
That's an odd sight.
1019
00:59:31,429 --> 00:59:32,569
Uh-huh.
1020
00:59:32,603 --> 00:59:34,018
Yeah, absolutely.
1021
00:59:34,053 --> 00:59:35,399
What do you think
when you see that?
1022
00:59:37,401 --> 00:59:39,748
"What the hell
is this guy doing?"
1023
00:59:39,783 --> 00:59:46,237
And from this point,
you could see the Rein buildings.
1024
00:59:46,272 --> 00:59:47,445
DAVID: From where the cup is?
1025
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,588
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, they're right there.
1026
00:59:51,622 --> 00:59:53,728
They're right down there.
1027
00:59:53,762 --> 00:59:55,212
DAVID: And could you see a road?
1028
00:59:55,246 --> 00:59:56,109
Yes.
1029
00:59:56,834 --> 00:59:58,249
Does that make any sense to you?
1030
00:59:58,284 --> 01:00:01,598
No, it doesn't, because...
1031
01:00:01,632 --> 01:00:04,393
Well, I don't know
if it makes sense to me or not,
1032
01:00:04,428 --> 01:00:05,567
but it is funny.
1033
01:00:05,602 --> 01:00:08,294
DAVID: So, you don't find
a body after your search.
1034
01:00:08,639 --> 01:00:09,744
No.
1035
01:00:09,778 --> 01:00:12,125
No, we couldn't cover
a large area
1036
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,645
and we didn't have a lot of
time to be able to do that.
1037
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,474
There wasn't a life or death
situation at this point?
1038
01:00:16,509 --> 01:00:19,719
No, not at that point.
It was evidence recovery.
1039
01:00:19,754 --> 01:00:23,309
So, how far does it go on
for the next thing to happen?
1040
01:00:23,861 --> 01:00:25,207
Another year.
1041
01:00:27,175 --> 01:00:29,246
Off of the Sweetgrass ranch,
1042
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,352
which is a dude ranch,
they have a dude ride.
1043
01:00:32,387 --> 01:00:35,148
A string of dudes
who were guests at the ranch
1044
01:00:35,183 --> 01:00:37,116
were on this ride.
1045
01:00:37,150 --> 01:00:41,499
And as they come up the hill,
1046
01:00:41,534 --> 01:00:43,467
on a little bench,
1047
01:00:43,501 --> 01:00:46,125
one of the guests
looks over and goes,
1048
01:00:46,159 --> 01:00:48,679
"Hey, there's
a skull over there."
1049
01:00:48,714 --> 01:00:52,407
And lo and behold, there's a
human skull underneath a tree.
1050
01:00:54,340 --> 01:00:58,516
I mean, just pretty as a
picture, bright as a penny,
1051
01:00:58,551 --> 01:00:59,690
underneath a dead tree.
1052
01:01:00,795 --> 01:01:02,037
Did you go back out?
1053
01:01:02,072 --> 01:01:03,142
Sure did.
1054
01:01:03,176 --> 01:01:04,868
And what did you find?
1055
01:01:04,902 --> 01:01:09,769
We find the skulls
and the remains
1056
01:01:09,804 --> 01:01:11,391
and where we find that...
1057
01:01:12,013 --> 01:01:14,394
is right here.
1058
01:01:15,879 --> 01:01:18,882
We did find the pelvis
and one femur
1059
01:01:18,916 --> 01:01:22,299
on a cow trail,
partially buried.
1060
01:01:22,333 --> 01:01:24,819
I did find Aaron's cell phone.
1061
01:01:24,853 --> 01:01:29,824
A jacket, like what you're
wearing, a thin jacket.
1062
01:01:29,858 --> 01:01:30,997
Any pants?
1063
01:01:31,032 --> 01:01:32,516
Pants? No.
1064
01:01:32,550 --> 01:01:34,242
I don't believe
we found any pants.
1065
01:01:34,276 --> 01:01:35,726
- I can't remember.
- Socks?
1066
01:01:37,624 --> 01:01:40,593
No, because we didn't find
any feet.
1067
01:01:41,421 --> 01:01:42,526
No feet?
1068
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:43,803
Right.
1069
01:01:43,838 --> 01:01:46,495
Did any of his bones appear
to be broken like his femurs?
1070
01:01:46,530 --> 01:01:47,704
No.
1071
01:01:47,738 --> 01:01:50,707
Did the coroner come up
with any cause of death?
1072
01:01:51,569 --> 01:01:52,605
No.
1073
01:02:00,958 --> 01:02:02,926
He could have seen the creek?
1074
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,687
CHARLIE: Yes, he could
have seen the creek.
1075
01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:07,689
So, there he had water.
1076
01:02:07,724 --> 01:02:10,278
I understand that there was also
a lighter in his backpack?
1077
01:02:10,312 --> 01:02:12,176
I think so, yeah, probably.
1078
01:02:12,211 --> 01:02:13,730
So, he could have made fire.
1079
01:02:15,145 --> 01:02:16,663
He had a gun,
he could have signaled help.
1080
01:02:18,079 --> 01:02:19,597
He had food,
e could have eaten.
1081
01:02:20,253 --> 01:02:21,427
DAVID: Well, you're a nurse.
1082
01:02:21,461 --> 01:02:22,704
Yes.
1083
01:02:22,739 --> 01:02:25,742
So, you understand hypothermia
and how it affects the body.
1084
01:02:26,570 --> 01:02:27,951
That distance...
1085
01:02:27,985 --> 01:02:29,780
Somebody said,
"Well, he was hypothermic
1086
01:02:29,815 --> 01:02:32,300
way back at the falls.
That's why he took his boots off."
1087
01:02:32,334 --> 01:02:34,543
Okay, great,
we're hypothermic then.
1088
01:02:34,578 --> 01:02:36,960
How in the heck are you going to
make it all that distance?
1089
01:02:36,994 --> 01:02:38,582
You know,
that's the other thing.
1090
01:02:38,616 --> 01:02:41,619
If he was hypothermic,
why didn't he drop his bow?
1091
01:02:43,104 --> 01:02:44,415
Why was he still packing it?
1092
01:02:44,450 --> 01:02:47,280
That's a heavy thing to be
packing in your backpack.
1093
01:02:49,110 --> 01:02:50,628
This all doesn't add up to me.
1094
01:02:51,112 --> 01:02:52,251
Nope.
1095
01:02:52,285 --> 01:02:53,839
Does it add up
to you in any way?
1096
01:02:54,978 --> 01:02:56,289
No.
1097
01:02:56,945 --> 01:02:59,983
ALAN: No. You go through
1098
01:03:00,017 --> 01:03:02,399
your lost person behavior,
1099
01:03:02,433 --> 01:03:06,644
your behavior is,
exposure takes a hold of you
1100
01:03:07,473 --> 01:03:08,474
and...
1101
01:03:10,165 --> 01:03:13,203
it just...
None of it makes any sense.
1102
01:03:17,794 --> 01:03:20,969
DAVID: There's two things that bothered
me most about the Hedges' case.
1103
01:03:21,004 --> 01:03:22,350
First I'd like to know
1104
01:03:22,384 --> 01:03:25,146
what caused Aaron to change
course so drastically?
1105
01:03:25,180 --> 01:03:27,286
Even if he had missed
the turn to the cache,
1106
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,115
he'd eventually known
he had gone too far
1107
01:03:29,150 --> 01:03:32,809
merely by the fact that he's
walking adjacent to the creek
1108
01:03:32,843 --> 01:03:34,293
that's flowing downhill,
1109
01:03:34,327 --> 01:03:37,296
away from the location
he's supposed to be in.
1110
01:03:37,330 --> 01:03:40,506
This was an experienced
hunter who hunted here often.
1111
01:03:40,540 --> 01:03:43,509
And this was a full two days
before any bad weather.
1112
01:03:44,372 --> 01:03:45,718
The second major issue
1113
01:03:45,752 --> 01:03:48,307
is his body being found
six miles from the falls,
1114
01:03:48,341 --> 01:03:52,345
where he apparently shed his boots
under the theory of extreme hypothermia.
1115
01:03:53,174 --> 01:03:54,623
Somehow, while hypothermic,
1116
01:03:54,658 --> 01:03:56,522
he carries his bow,
his backpack,
1117
01:03:56,556 --> 01:03:58,973
a jacket, his cell phone
and thermos
1118
01:03:59,007 --> 01:04:02,666
six miles through a foot and a
half to three feet of fresh snow
1119
01:04:02,700 --> 01:04:03,978
with no shoes.
1120
01:04:05,151 --> 01:04:07,671
Then sits on a rock
overlooking safety.
1121
01:04:09,052 --> 01:04:10,501
His remains were found 11 miles
1122
01:04:10,536 --> 01:04:12,538
from the camp
he was supposed to return to.
1123
01:04:14,712 --> 01:04:15,748
It's too much.
1124
01:04:16,922 --> 01:04:18,371
This is one strange case.
1125
01:04:20,857 --> 01:04:22,651
I never take those mountains
for granted.
1126
01:04:22,686 --> 01:04:25,516
Every time I drive home
from the East,
1127
01:04:25,551 --> 01:04:28,865
it's like, "There they are.
There's our mountains."
1128
01:04:28,899 --> 01:04:30,142
It's the best place on Earth.
1129
01:04:30,176 --> 01:04:32,075
You know, it's the prettiest
place on Earth.
1130
01:04:32,109 --> 01:04:33,559
We're prejudiced.
1131
01:05:19,329 --> 01:05:20,778
Where we are, here in Sonora,
1132
01:05:20,813 --> 01:05:24,403
you see
the remnants of the 1800s
1133
01:05:24,437 --> 01:05:26,439
in just about every place.
1134
01:05:26,474 --> 01:05:28,579
It's an old mining town.
1135
01:05:34,861 --> 01:05:39,418
Sonora is kind of at the lower
foothills of the mountain.
1136
01:05:39,452 --> 01:05:41,627
And as you head Eastbound,
1137
01:05:41,661 --> 01:05:43,974
heading up into the forest,
1138
01:05:44,009 --> 01:05:47,046
the dense,
you know, wild forests
1139
01:05:47,081 --> 01:05:48,634
where there is no more cities,
1140
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:51,602
it becomes even clearer to you
1141
01:05:51,637 --> 01:05:54,778
that this place is not like
other places.
1142
01:05:54,812 --> 01:05:58,989
There is sort of
a strange sense of mystery
1143
01:05:59,024 --> 01:06:00,094
that abounds.
1144
01:06:14,798 --> 01:06:16,351
My name is Giuseppe Ricapito.
1145
01:06:16,386 --> 01:06:18,698
I am a police
and courts reporter
1146
01:06:18,733 --> 01:06:20,631
here at The Union Democrat
newspaper
1147
01:06:20,666 --> 01:06:23,013
in Sonora,
Tuolumne County, California.
1148
01:06:23,048 --> 01:06:26,637
So, in a county like this,
do you have a lot of homicides?
1149
01:06:27,466 --> 01:06:29,157
Not necessarily.
1150
01:06:29,192 --> 01:06:32,091
There's been a handful,
1151
01:06:32,126 --> 01:06:33,644
maybe in the past
couple of years
1152
01:06:33,679 --> 01:06:36,854
and none of them were unsolved.
1153
01:06:36,889 --> 01:06:40,444
Your county goes all the way up into
the high mountain area, correct?
1154
01:06:40,479 --> 01:06:42,377
GIUSEPPE: Yeah, it spreads
all the way over
1155
01:06:42,412 --> 01:06:44,655
into the Sierra
Nevada mountain range
1156
01:06:44,690 --> 01:06:47,037
all the way to Sonora Pass.
1157
01:06:47,072 --> 01:06:50,834
DAVID: There's a gorgeous lookout up there.
Tell us about that.
1158
01:06:50,868 --> 01:06:53,664
GIUSEPPE: If you are
traveling up that corridor
1159
01:06:53,699 --> 01:06:56,736
which passes through
the county, Highway 108,
1160
01:06:56,771 --> 01:07:00,016
you basically advance
up a steep grade.
1161
01:07:02,915 --> 01:07:06,677
You're fascinated by, like,
how lush it is, right?
1162
01:07:06,712 --> 01:07:09,232
The wildlife, the trees.
1163
01:07:09,266 --> 01:07:13,167
And as you wind up further
and further up this grade,
1164
01:07:13,201 --> 01:07:16,515
you get the feeling like you've lost
it, or you're lost,
1165
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:21,002
like you're never going to find
it, because it's a single turn off,
1166
01:07:21,037 --> 01:07:23,936
a single sign
pointing you to the left.
1167
01:07:27,733 --> 01:07:29,045
It's called Donnell Vista.
1168
01:07:29,079 --> 01:07:32,496
And, it's sort of,
I've been thinking about it.
1169
01:07:32,531 --> 01:07:34,567
It's, like, etched
into the mountain side.
1170
01:07:38,192 --> 01:07:40,608
If you're standing there
at the lookout point, right,
1171
01:07:40,642 --> 01:07:42,713
and you're
overlooking that area,
1172
01:07:42,748 --> 01:07:46,890
you're seeing these crags of
rock jutting out
1173
01:07:46,924 --> 01:07:51,377
and I couldn't even
tell you how far
1174
01:07:51,412 --> 01:07:54,622
the blips of a river
far down below.
1175
01:07:56,658 --> 01:07:58,798
As you look over,
you say to yourself,
1176
01:07:58,833 --> 01:08:01,422
"If you fall down here,
you're not going to survive."
1177
01:08:15,608 --> 01:08:17,231
We just left the vista.
1178
01:08:17,265 --> 01:08:18,818
Just a quarter mile East,
1179
01:08:18,853 --> 01:08:22,098
Breck Phelps' vehicle was found
1180
01:08:22,132 --> 01:08:23,168
at this turnout.
1181
01:08:24,790 --> 01:08:28,380
Under the small, old dirt road,
1182
01:08:28,414 --> 01:08:30,658
that eventually leads
and turns into a trail
1183
01:08:30,692 --> 01:08:32,522
down by the Stanislaus river.
1184
01:08:47,157 --> 01:08:50,160
DAVID: His pastor found
the vehicle here
1185
01:08:50,195 --> 01:08:53,612
because he knew Breck had fished
here in the past.
1186
01:08:53,646 --> 01:08:55,786
And that's where
the search started.
1187
01:08:55,821 --> 01:08:59,273
They brought in Cobra
helicopters, four dog teams.
1188
01:08:59,307 --> 01:09:00,653
There was even some bad weather
1189
01:09:00,688 --> 01:09:03,139
that hindered the search
for a short period of time.
1190
01:09:04,864 --> 01:09:09,179
They found nothing after many
days of looking for the man.
1191
01:09:09,214 --> 01:09:10,525
He was never found.
1192
01:09:14,046 --> 01:09:18,119
The strangest thing about
Breck Phelps' disappearance
1193
01:09:18,154 --> 01:09:21,640
was that it seemed to align
or parallel itself
1194
01:09:21,674 --> 01:09:23,504
to the previous disappearances
1195
01:09:23,538 --> 01:09:25,816
that had happened
in that same region.
1196
01:09:25,851 --> 01:09:28,681
Patti Sue Tolhurst
and Nita Mayo
1197
01:09:28,716 --> 01:09:33,030
both commonly like Breck
Phelps, left their car,
1198
01:09:33,065 --> 01:09:35,688
within a quarter mile
of that vista point.
1199
01:09:41,073 --> 01:09:44,352
DAVID: The true oddity
of this location
1200
01:09:44,387 --> 01:09:46,354
is that we have three people
1201
01:09:46,389 --> 01:09:48,839
in eleven years
that have disappeared
1202
01:09:48,874 --> 01:09:51,048
from essentially one spot.
1203
01:09:51,773 --> 01:09:54,190
That is very odd.
1204
01:09:54,224 --> 01:09:58,504
GIUSEPPE: It's easy to say
these people slipped on a rock
1205
01:09:58,539 --> 01:10:01,162
and they fell into
the river canyon, right?
1206
01:10:01,197 --> 01:10:04,061
But then, why haven't we
found remains?
1207
01:10:05,339 --> 01:10:08,204
DAVID: When you're walking
on the paved path,
1208
01:10:08,238 --> 01:10:11,345
you've got boulders
all around you.
1209
01:10:11,379 --> 01:10:15,211
And it's something that I've
written about hundreds of times.
1210
01:10:15,245 --> 01:10:16,522
You just can't ignore it.
1211
01:10:16,557 --> 01:10:18,869
And here,
it raises its face again
1212
01:10:18,904 --> 01:10:21,907
right amongst a cluster of
missing people.
1213
01:10:39,821 --> 01:10:43,100
DAVID: Did you ask the Sheriff
what their feelings were?
1214
01:10:44,895 --> 01:10:47,139
The Sheriff's Office
doesn't like to speculate.
1215
01:10:47,173 --> 01:10:50,970
The Sheriff's Office is a real
cut and dry,
1216
01:10:51,005 --> 01:10:54,388
black and white,
we found him, or we didn't,
1217
01:10:54,422 --> 01:10:56,804
this case is open
until it's closed.
1218
01:10:56,838 --> 01:10:59,945
The one thing that I wanted to
bring up is, in April,
1219
01:10:59,979 --> 01:11:02,603
before the disappearance
of Breck Phelps.
1220
01:11:02,637 --> 01:11:05,744
In April 2016,
they did find human remains
1221
01:11:05,778 --> 01:11:07,918
over in that area.
1222
01:11:07,953 --> 01:11:11,612
They didn't match
Patti Sue Tolhurst,
1223
01:11:11,646 --> 01:11:12,958
not did they match Nita Mayo.
1224
01:11:12,992 --> 01:11:14,994
They tested the dental records.
1225
01:11:15,029 --> 01:11:17,894
It was just like,
what are these?
1226
01:11:17,928 --> 01:11:20,310
And this was before the
disappearance of Breck Phelps.
1227
01:11:20,345 --> 01:11:21,415
Did they ever ID the remains?
1228
01:11:21,449 --> 01:11:22,761
No.
1229
01:11:22,795 --> 01:11:24,003
So, we don't know who it was?
1230
01:11:24,038 --> 01:11:25,626
No.
1231
01:11:25,660 --> 01:11:28,111
People aren't talking about
this story anymore.
1232
01:11:28,145 --> 01:11:32,978
The news cycle being very, you
know, I'm doing two stories a day!
1233
01:11:33,012 --> 01:11:35,118
But if it does happen again,
1234
01:11:35,152 --> 01:11:37,741
people are going to be
reminded of these past stories
1235
01:11:37,776 --> 01:11:39,950
and it's going to
only increase speculation
1236
01:11:39,985 --> 01:11:44,127
and increase
the sense of concern.
1237
01:11:44,161 --> 01:11:47,958
Now, if you just step out
from this area a little further,
1238
01:11:47,993 --> 01:11:51,617
there's also a larger cluster
1239
01:11:51,652 --> 01:11:53,136
in geographical area
1240
01:11:53,170 --> 01:11:55,518
where there's
three people missing
1241
01:11:55,552 --> 01:11:57,934
so close
to Yosemite National Park
1242
01:11:57,968 --> 01:12:01,040
and the biggest cluster of
missing people in the world.
1243
01:12:02,214 --> 01:12:05,010
I don't know why,
I don't know where,
1244
01:12:05,493 --> 01:12:06,632
I don't know how,
1245
01:12:06,667 --> 01:12:10,395
but I don't think
it's a coincidence.
1246
01:12:12,397 --> 01:12:13,674
Now, within this region,
1247
01:12:13,708 --> 01:12:16,677
there's a hunting camp
dating back to the 1950s.
1248
01:12:16,711 --> 01:12:18,161
Over the years,
1249
01:12:18,195 --> 01:12:20,508
the hunters have experienced
something highly unusual.
1250
01:12:20,543 --> 01:12:24,270
And by proximity alone,
this is worth investigating.
1251
01:12:37,594 --> 01:12:40,563
And just so people can get
some idea,
1252
01:12:40,597 --> 01:12:42,668
we're not that far
outside Yosemite.
1253
01:12:42,703 --> 01:12:44,049
MOREHEAD: We're not far at all.
1254
01:12:44,083 --> 01:12:46,741
I tell people we're in
between Yosemite and Tahoe.
1255
01:12:47,432 --> 01:12:48,847
Yeah, that's where we are.
1256
01:12:48,881 --> 01:12:51,021
We're in a 6000 feet elevation,
1257
01:12:51,056 --> 01:12:53,369
you're hiking
close to 10000 feet
1258
01:12:53,403 --> 01:12:55,509
before you start dropping
back, you know, up and down.
1259
01:12:57,407 --> 01:13:00,376
The whole topography up there
changes every year,
1260
01:13:00,410 --> 01:13:02,205
you don't know what to expect.
1261
01:13:02,239 --> 01:13:04,207
You don't know what...
across the trail
1262
01:13:04,241 --> 01:13:05,588
that you have to work your
way around.
1263
01:13:05,622 --> 01:13:09,385
You really need to know
which trails to get here.
1264
01:13:09,419 --> 01:13:12,698
And if you don't know where it's
at, you'll never find it.
1265
01:13:12,733 --> 01:13:14,113
It's just one of those places.
1266
01:13:23,122 --> 01:13:25,918
DAVID: What year did
the Sierra Camp start?
1267
01:13:27,230 --> 01:13:29,681
MOREHEAD: The camp's
been here since the 50s.
1268
01:13:29,715 --> 01:13:32,166
I didn't start coming
up till 1971.
1269
01:13:35,065 --> 01:13:37,309
DAVID: And do you know what
brought 'em to this spot?
1270
01:13:39,138 --> 01:13:40,899
MOREHEAD: This is one
of those spots that
1271
01:13:40,933 --> 01:13:43,419
Warren used to say this is as close to
heaven as you think you'll ever get.
1272
01:13:48,941 --> 01:13:50,909
It's so remote.
1273
01:13:50,943 --> 01:13:54,084
The deer are plentiful.
There's a lot of bear up here.
1274
01:13:54,119 --> 01:13:57,018
It's pristine,
a lot of granite.
1275
01:13:58,261 --> 01:14:00,056
Fresh water coming right out of the ground,
1276
01:14:00,090 --> 01:14:01,954
especially where
the spring starts.
1277
01:14:01,989 --> 01:14:05,613
There's a lot of rivers and it's
just a gorgeous place to be in.
1278
01:14:10,618 --> 01:14:12,586
We're a very sober cap.
1279
01:14:12,620 --> 01:14:14,311
A very strict camp.
1280
01:14:14,346 --> 01:14:17,763
We don't unload
before you came into camp.
1281
01:14:17,798 --> 01:14:19,178
No alcohol in here.
1282
01:14:19,213 --> 01:14:22,250
It was really a quite
disciplined camp.
1283
01:14:22,285 --> 01:14:25,012
All the guys were
professional people,
1284
01:14:25,046 --> 01:14:27,566
so we kept going on up here.
1285
01:14:27,601 --> 01:14:28,774
What it was, we don't know,
1286
01:14:28,809 --> 01:14:32,502
but had it to ourselves
for a long time.
1287
01:14:32,537 --> 01:14:35,781
DAVID: And what was the average success
rate for you guys coming up here?
1288
01:14:35,816 --> 01:14:38,128
MOREHEAD: The deer was
100 percent.
1289
01:14:38,163 --> 01:14:39,820
We never didn't get a deer.
1290
01:14:39,854 --> 01:14:41,994
It's that kind of a place.
1291
01:14:56,422 --> 01:14:59,874
We really didn't realize
what we were dealing with.
1292
01:14:59,909 --> 01:15:01,324
We still don't know
what we're dealing with,
1293
01:15:01,358 --> 01:15:03,395
but it's something
very unusual.
1294
01:15:05,052 --> 01:15:08,331
Strange things happened and
most of the stuff happened
1295
01:15:08,365 --> 01:15:12,093
in the evening time, just at
dusk, nightime, like now.
1296
01:15:16,512 --> 01:15:19,825
The first time I ever heard
anything was later in '71.
1297
01:15:19,860 --> 01:15:21,033
I came back up with the guys
1298
01:15:21,068 --> 01:15:25,141
and we were here by the stove.
1299
01:15:25,175 --> 01:15:27,005
There was a stove here then.
1300
01:15:27,039 --> 01:15:30,353
And as soon as it starts
getting dark, we'd go in.
1301
01:15:30,387 --> 01:15:32,838
Sometimes we might hear a grunt
or a whoop or... [MAKES A SOUND]
1302
01:15:32,873 --> 01:15:34,495
or blowing sounds like that
1303
01:15:34,530 --> 01:15:37,567
and that's when you know you
want to get inside the shelter
1304
01:15:37,602 --> 01:15:39,327
because you still don't know
what you're dealing with.
1305
01:15:39,362 --> 01:15:42,538
Whatever it is, it's big.
Very, very big.
1306
01:15:42,572 --> 01:15:46,024
We would all go inside,
close the shelter's door
1307
01:15:46,058 --> 01:15:48,820
and that's a log we would put
in between these trees
1308
01:15:48,854 --> 01:15:51,029
and then strap it inside
with cable.
1309
01:15:51,063 --> 01:15:54,204
And then, they would start
making their sounds.
1310
01:15:54,239 --> 01:15:57,173
That was in 1971, when
I first started hearing them
1311
01:15:57,207 --> 01:15:58,692
and we started recording them.
1312
01:16:04,629 --> 01:16:06,941
[STRANGE SOUNDS]
1313
01:17:34,719 --> 01:17:37,342
MOREHEAD: We were all talking about,
"Maybe I can figure out a way out."
1314
01:17:37,376 --> 01:17:40,310
You're just sitting there
and all of you are petrified.
1315
01:17:40,345 --> 01:17:42,761
You're just waiting
for the wall to break open
1316
01:17:42,796 --> 01:17:44,487
and something to reach in there
and grab you.
1317
01:17:45,177 --> 01:17:46,696
Hold you up and...
1318
01:17:46,731 --> 01:17:49,147
Waiting for the light to break in
through the cracks of the walls
1319
01:17:49,181 --> 01:17:51,425
and it never happened.
1320
01:17:52,322 --> 01:17:53,703
That's the strange part,
1321
01:17:53,738 --> 01:17:56,223
'cause you hear it over there,
but you don't see it over there.
1322
01:17:57,362 --> 01:17:59,675
As time went on, '72,
same thing.
1323
01:17:59,709 --> 01:18:02,781
We thought something might be
trying to scare us out.
1324
01:18:02,816 --> 01:18:04,990
Maybe this is their territory.
1325
01:18:05,025 --> 01:18:06,682
We don't know, we can only guess
1326
01:18:06,716 --> 01:18:09,581
why they were doing
what they were doing.
1327
01:18:09,615 --> 01:18:12,688
But they were observing us,
that's for sure.
1328
01:18:20,696 --> 01:18:23,595
What we do know is that
their vocal range
1329
01:18:23,629 --> 01:18:26,771
is much greater
than human beings.
1330
01:18:27,772 --> 01:18:31,499
Their frequencies go way above
1331
01:18:31,534 --> 01:18:34,226
and way below
the abilities of humans.
1332
01:18:41,958 --> 01:18:45,410
SCOTT: I was trained in all
of the deceptive practices
1333
01:18:45,444 --> 01:18:48,137
in voice and communications.
1334
01:18:49,586 --> 01:18:52,210
Besides the fact
that you have the creatures
1335
01:18:52,244 --> 01:18:55,558
stepping on each other
in their conversational turns,
1336
01:18:56,386 --> 01:19:00,080
you have humans, like Ron,
1337
01:19:00,114 --> 01:19:03,600
stepping on the creatures
back and forth,
1338
01:19:04,429 --> 01:19:07,259
overlapping their voices
on the tapes.
1339
01:19:07,915 --> 01:19:09,296
It can't be faked.
1340
01:19:10,228 --> 01:19:12,230
Not in 1974.
1341
01:19:13,334 --> 01:19:15,889
Plus, it would be
extremely dangerous
1342
01:19:16,821 --> 01:19:18,408
to come up here at night,
1343
01:19:18,443 --> 01:19:21,411
into a camp
full of well armed hunters.
1344
01:19:21,446 --> 01:19:24,760
They don't go to bed at night
without their guns at their sides.
1345
01:19:26,071 --> 01:19:28,246
It's ridiculous to think of it.
1346
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:29,626
You wouldn't do it.
You wouldn't do it
1347
01:19:29,661 --> 01:19:31,663
just to hoax a bunch of
hunters up here.
1348
01:19:32,837 --> 01:19:35,736
DAVID: So, from a 100 percent
factual standpoint,
1349
01:19:35,771 --> 01:19:40,845
we really don't know what's
making these language sounds.
1350
01:19:41,535 --> 01:19:43,606
That's right. We don't know.
1351
01:19:50,786 --> 01:19:55,480
One time I heard a sound like
a huge tuning fork
1352
01:19:55,514 --> 01:19:58,932
above us and couldn't
find the source of it.
1353
01:19:58,966 --> 01:20:01,348
It was just a big sound
like that.
1354
01:20:04,282 --> 01:20:06,111
Sometimes you hear
a sound out here
1355
01:20:06,146 --> 01:20:09,805
and one time we thought our camp
was being torn apart by something.
1356
01:20:09,839 --> 01:20:11,220
We thought the barrels
1357
01:20:11,254 --> 01:20:14,499
that we packed in was being
torn up and tossed around.
1358
01:20:14,533 --> 01:20:17,191
When we came out when all the
commotion and sound had stopped,
1359
01:20:17,226 --> 01:20:19,469
nothing changed.
1360
01:20:19,504 --> 01:20:21,506
Now, how do you explain that,
you know?
1361
01:20:21,540 --> 01:20:24,440
One time, when I was in there,
I thought I heard a car door slam.
1362
01:20:24,474 --> 01:20:26,407
Now, we're
eight miles into wilderness.
1363
01:20:27,546 --> 01:20:30,273
So, aside from the sounds,
1364
01:20:30,308 --> 01:20:32,862
you also saw some things
in the sky and the air?
1365
01:20:32,897 --> 01:20:35,382
MOREHEAD: Yeah, lights.
1366
01:20:36,003 --> 01:20:38,281
You know, orbs.
1367
01:20:38,316 --> 01:20:41,353
All the guys have reported orbs
when I wasn't here.
1368
01:20:42,699 --> 01:20:46,186
Me and my friend Bill saw one
night was a big blue ball
1369
01:20:46,220 --> 01:20:47,808
coming down from up here.
1370
01:20:47,843 --> 01:20:49,845
Slowly moving,
definitely controlled.
1371
01:20:49,879 --> 01:20:52,330
It had some type
of intelligence around it.
1372
01:20:52,364 --> 01:20:54,125
You know, if you were
just looking up there,
1373
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:56,023
you would think it was the moon.
1374
01:20:56,058 --> 01:20:57,749
But it was blue.
1375
01:20:57,783 --> 01:21:01,166
It was moving down. We lost it behind
the trees and it went over there.
1376
01:21:01,201 --> 01:21:02,478
I don't know
what to think of it.
1377
01:21:02,512 --> 01:21:04,860
You don't know what to think of
any of this stuff.
1378
01:21:08,415 --> 01:21:09,554
We were in a tent
1379
01:21:09,588 --> 01:21:13,040
and it almost wasn't this dark.
1380
01:21:13,075 --> 01:21:15,318
But this thing,
whatever it was
1381
01:21:15,353 --> 01:21:17,976
just comes and starts
moving up behind us.
1382
01:21:18,011 --> 01:21:21,600
An elongated light,
probably about three-foot long,
1383
01:21:21,635 --> 01:21:23,740
probably about that big around
1384
01:21:23,775 --> 01:21:27,675
and just a rod of light.
1385
01:21:27,710 --> 01:21:30,437
I tell people
when I talk about it
1386
01:21:30,471 --> 01:21:33,647
that it's like
a Star Warssaber.
1387
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:39,239
Like, glowing, but not bright
glowing. Just glowing.
1388
01:21:39,273 --> 01:21:42,035
And it just moved slowly
through the trees.
1389
01:21:42,069 --> 01:21:43,588
Definitely controlled.
1390
01:21:43,622 --> 01:21:46,591
And dissipated over here.
1391
01:21:50,733 --> 01:21:52,390
DAVID: Is it embarrassing
to talk about?
1392
01:21:52,838 --> 01:21:54,047
No, I don't care.
1393
01:21:55,255 --> 01:21:56,981
Now nothing bothers me.
1394
01:21:58,775 --> 01:22:00,605
DAVID: What makes you
keep coming back?
1395
01:22:03,401 --> 01:22:04,920
The mystery that's still here.
1396
01:22:04,954 --> 01:22:07,405
There's still a mystery
that needs to be solved
1397
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:09,786
or understood.
1398
01:22:09,821 --> 01:22:14,895
And I'm here now
because you're here.
1399
01:22:14,930 --> 01:22:17,933
I've been asked multiple times
to be brought up here
1400
01:22:17,967 --> 01:22:19,106
by different people,
1401
01:22:19,141 --> 01:22:21,246
and I've turned them down
1402
01:22:21,281 --> 01:22:23,041
basically because
I don't want this area,
1403
01:22:23,076 --> 01:22:24,249
such pristine areas
1404
01:22:24,284 --> 01:22:26,493
to be exposed
to a bunch of researchers
1405
01:22:26,527 --> 01:22:29,599
just come up here
and inundating the area.
1406
01:22:29,634 --> 01:22:33,431
And I'm also told that the
hunters that still come up
1407
01:22:33,465 --> 01:22:36,089
and their offspring
could still hunt the area.
1408
01:22:36,123 --> 01:22:39,437
You know, they'll all kind of
keep it very private
1409
01:22:39,471 --> 01:22:41,094
as much as possible.
1410
01:22:41,128 --> 01:22:45,546
Our shelter, although, has been
dismantled now, years ago.
1411
01:22:46,306 --> 01:22:47,893
It's still a place to come to.
1412
01:23:03,323 --> 01:23:07,499
Nothing surprises me.
Nothing up here.
1413
01:23:07,534 --> 01:23:10,261
Why this is such a strange
place I have no idea,
1414
01:23:10,295 --> 01:23:14,713
but it is
a very interesting area.
1415
01:23:25,379 --> 01:23:29,625
DAVID: We spent seven days with
Ron and Scott at the Sierra camp.
1416
01:23:29,659 --> 01:23:32,524
Now, although we didn't
experience anything paranormal,
1417
01:23:33,180 --> 01:23:35,872
this area holds many secrets.
1418
01:23:35,907 --> 01:23:37,081
That we know for sure.
1419
01:23:46,262 --> 01:23:47,746
The last case
I want to investigate
1420
01:23:47,781 --> 01:23:50,059
is even a little deeper
down the rabbit hole.
1421
01:23:52,372 --> 01:23:53,718
It's not about
a missing hunter,
1422
01:23:53,752 --> 01:23:55,651
but instead, about
a strange experience
1423
01:23:55,685 --> 01:23:58,171
one hunter faced in Lima, Ohio.
1424
01:23:58,205 --> 01:24:01,553
It's important to know that this
isn't a connection to the missing.
1425
01:24:01,588 --> 01:24:05,143
It's simply an odd event
that's worth looking into.
1426
01:24:05,178 --> 01:24:09,630
And it's associated with one of
the smartest people I've ever met.
1427
01:24:12,392 --> 01:24:13,876
There's a difference, I guess,
1428
01:24:13,910 --> 01:24:16,534
between being freaked out
by things that you imagine
1429
01:24:16,568 --> 01:24:19,054
and being freaked out by things
that you actually see.
1430
01:24:22,471 --> 01:24:24,921
JAN: This, I have to say,
was the most...
1431
01:24:26,268 --> 01:24:27,717
terrifying experience, but yeah,
1432
01:24:27,752 --> 01:24:29,754
I don't know why I didn't react
to it and that bothers me.
1433
01:24:43,940 --> 01:24:46,081
JAN: Hunting in Ohio
is awesome.
1434
01:24:46,115 --> 01:24:49,532
We have some great, big
trophy deer in Ohio
1435
01:24:49,567 --> 01:24:50,740
and we happen to have
1436
01:24:50,775 --> 01:24:53,226
some of the biggest right
here on our own property.
1437
01:25:16,835 --> 01:25:18,768
It was the most beautiful
night to deer hunt.
1438
01:25:18,803 --> 01:25:20,115
It was the second day
of season.
1439
01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:23,256
I wanted to get into
the woods to hunt.
1440
01:25:23,290 --> 01:25:24,774
I was very excited about it.
1441
01:25:29,503 --> 01:25:32,679
There was band,
over at the high school.
1442
01:25:34,819 --> 01:25:37,062
By the time I got to my deer
stand, I could hear 'em.
1443
01:25:40,790 --> 01:25:41,964
I was all settled in.
1444
01:25:41,998 --> 01:25:43,621
Didn't see nothing coming
down the pass.
1445
01:25:43,655 --> 01:25:46,658
Trails of birds, crickets,
everything was normal wood sounds.
1446
01:25:48,522 --> 01:25:49,937
When you're hunting,
1447
01:25:49,972 --> 01:25:52,457
you have two
of your keenest senses.
1448
01:25:52,492 --> 01:25:54,149
It's your hearing
and your eyesight.
1449
01:25:58,222 --> 01:26:01,846
All of a sudden, the woods
went to this dead quiet.
1450
01:26:05,021 --> 01:26:07,541
If I had dropped a pin,
I know that deer would stand.
1451
01:26:09,681 --> 01:26:10,855
They had cut off.
1452
01:26:10,889 --> 01:26:13,823
No birds, no crickets,
no nothing.
1453
01:26:15,308 --> 01:26:16,619
With the sun still up,
1454
01:26:16,654 --> 01:26:18,518
we were not calling for
bad weather that night.
1455
01:26:18,552 --> 01:26:19,933
It was a great night to hunt.
1456
01:26:22,522 --> 01:26:25,283
All of a sudden,
I thought I had a mote in my eye.
1457
01:26:25,318 --> 01:26:27,699
I even took my finger
and rubbed my eye, like,
1458
01:26:27,734 --> 01:26:29,322
when you get that fogginess
over your eye,
1459
01:26:29,356 --> 01:26:30,840
like, it's just...
1460
01:26:30,875 --> 01:26:32,497
I look and I'm thinking,
1461
01:26:32,532 --> 01:26:34,568
"What is this thing
in the trees?"
1462
01:26:36,087 --> 01:26:39,539
It looked like a large piece
of Saran Wrap.
1463
01:26:39,573 --> 01:26:40,919
It's the only way
I can describe it.
1464
01:26:40,954 --> 01:26:42,335
But this thing was very wide.
1465
01:26:42,369 --> 01:26:46,339
'Cause I'm up 14 foot
and it hung quite a ways down
1466
01:26:46,373 --> 01:26:47,788
and I'm thinking...
1467
01:26:48,375 --> 01:26:49,583
"What is this thing?"
1468
01:26:50,688 --> 01:26:52,862
It didn't really scare me
at that time,
1469
01:26:52,897 --> 01:26:54,933
until it moved and formed
1470
01:26:54,968 --> 01:26:57,695
the arm that reached over
to the other tree.
1471
01:26:57,729 --> 01:27:00,525
It reached over
about 12 to 14 foot.
1472
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:04,219
And then, it all, like a
blob, sucked into it.
1473
01:27:04,253 --> 01:27:05,910
And it went to
a whole other tree.
1474
01:27:07,291 --> 01:27:09,258
I had this very important
feeling, like,
1475
01:27:09,293 --> 01:27:11,260
something ain't right here.
1476
01:27:12,779 --> 01:27:14,712
Normally at that time, I would
have probably got down
1477
01:27:14,746 --> 01:27:16,403
and stopped hunting,
1478
01:27:16,438 --> 01:27:17,784
but for some reason, I didn't.
1479
01:27:18,957 --> 01:27:20,959
DAVID: So, as you're sitting
in your blind,
1480
01:27:20,994 --> 01:27:22,720
and you're looking across,
1481
01:27:22,754 --> 01:27:25,723
where did the blob come from?
1482
01:27:25,757 --> 01:27:29,692
I have no idea.
It just appeared in the one tree.
1483
01:27:29,727 --> 01:27:31,763
As it was moving
through the woods,
1484
01:27:31,798 --> 01:27:33,972
it went from tree
to tree to tree
1485
01:27:34,007 --> 01:27:35,974
and then it just disappeared.
1486
01:27:36,630 --> 01:27:38,632
It didn't continue on.
1487
01:27:38,667 --> 01:27:40,255
So, where it went I don't know,
1488
01:27:40,289 --> 01:27:43,154
but it just... Right before my
eyes, just vanished.
1489
01:27:45,190 --> 01:27:48,435
And I don't remember
taking the picture,
1490
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:52,577
but being married to who I'm married
to, Dr. Bruce Maccabee,
1491
01:27:52,612 --> 01:27:56,098
he always said, "If you see
anything weird, get a picture."
1492
01:27:59,619 --> 01:28:05,418
I don't recall actually when either
that the sounds had returned.
1493
01:28:05,452 --> 01:28:07,834
It's just like I don't remember.
1494
01:28:10,457 --> 01:28:11,907
That's not me to this day.
1495
01:28:11,941 --> 01:28:13,736
Normally, I would probably
crawl down,
1496
01:28:13,771 --> 01:28:15,428
come around the house and say,
1497
01:28:15,462 --> 01:28:17,326
"You ain't going to believe
what's back there in the woods."
1498
01:28:17,361 --> 01:28:19,880
DAVID: How much longer do you
think you stayed in the stand?
1499
01:28:21,330 --> 01:28:24,989
About half hour till sundown.
It was time to come out.
1500
01:28:29,649 --> 01:28:31,444
The strange part about this is,
1501
01:28:31,478 --> 01:28:32,859
Jan goes off to hunt,
1502
01:28:33,998 --> 01:28:36,621
we have guests show up,
we're having dinner.
1503
01:28:36,656 --> 01:28:38,002
She comes back from the hunt
1504
01:28:38,036 --> 01:28:40,315
and says nothing about what
happened. It was strange.
1505
01:28:41,695 --> 01:28:44,111
The guests are
about ready to leave.
1506
01:28:44,146 --> 01:28:47,149
Later on, Matthew sends me
an e-mail.
1507
01:28:47,183 --> 01:28:49,151
BRUCE: There was sighting
by a number of students
1508
01:28:49,185 --> 01:28:51,809
and faculty in the high school
band practice,
1509
01:28:51,843 --> 01:28:53,328
just before dark.
1510
01:28:53,914 --> 01:28:55,330
I'm like, "Holy crap.
1511
01:28:55,364 --> 01:28:57,918
Maybe it has something to do
with what I saw in the woods."
1512
01:28:58,643 --> 01:28:59,851
And Bruce goes, "What?"
1513
01:29:00,231 --> 01:29:01,646
And I said,
1514
01:29:01,681 --> 01:29:05,547
"I forgot to tell you what happened
in those woods to me tonight."
1515
01:29:05,581 --> 01:29:07,618
And I'm reading
this from Matthew
1516
01:29:07,652 --> 01:29:09,999
and then I start
getting goosebumps.
1517
01:29:10,034 --> 01:29:11,829
He said
this light appeared above
1518
01:29:11,863 --> 01:29:15,039
like big stadium lights
in the football field.
1519
01:29:15,073 --> 01:29:16,799
Had Matthew
not sent that e-mail,
1520
01:29:16,834 --> 01:29:20,251
I'm not sure if I would have remembered
even that night to say anything.
1521
01:29:22,391 --> 01:29:24,013
DAVID: How many kids
were on the field?
1522
01:29:24,048 --> 01:29:26,395
MATTHEW: At least 30.
Thirty to forty I would say.
1523
01:29:26,430 --> 01:29:27,845
DAVID: And was that
the high school band?
1524
01:29:27,879 --> 01:29:29,571
MATTHEW: Yes.
1525
01:29:29,605 --> 01:29:31,849
DAVID: And so, this was just before
you guys went back to school?
1526
01:29:31,883 --> 01:29:33,989
MATTHEW: Yes, band camp.
1527
01:29:34,023 --> 01:29:35,818
- MATTHEW: Late August.
- DAVID: Late August?
1528
01:29:35,853 --> 01:29:38,027
So, what time at night
do you think that was?
1529
01:29:38,890 --> 01:29:40,202
Between six and seven.
1530
01:29:40,236 --> 01:29:42,998
We were rehearsing
normally out here
1531
01:29:43,032 --> 01:29:45,000
about six or seven o'clock,
1532
01:29:45,034 --> 01:29:47,278
doing our normal routine.
1533
01:29:47,312 --> 01:29:49,660
When, all of a sudden, there was
this bright light in the sky
1534
01:29:49,694 --> 01:29:51,386
that just came out of nowhere.
1535
01:29:53,042 --> 01:29:55,390
And we all just kind of stopped
and looked at it as one.
1536
01:29:56,529 --> 01:29:58,116
DAVID: Where was the light?
1537
01:29:58,151 --> 01:30:01,603
So, the light was anywhere...
1538
01:30:01,637 --> 01:30:03,052
It was above
the treeline for sure,
1539
01:30:03,087 --> 01:30:05,917
just kind of hovering
in the skyline.
1540
01:30:06,918 --> 01:30:08,782
Close enough for it
to catch your attention.
1541
01:30:10,405 --> 01:30:11,785
Like, it shouldn't have been
there, I guess.
1542
01:30:11,820 --> 01:30:13,442
If it was some man made thing,
1543
01:30:13,477 --> 01:30:14,926
it was too low to be there.
1544
01:30:16,341 --> 01:30:19,241
Okay, what was the weather
like that night?
1545
01:30:19,275 --> 01:30:20,725
Clear and hot.
1546
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:22,140
Typical August Ohio weather.
1547
01:30:22,175 --> 01:30:24,522
DAVID: Okay,
what color was it?
1548
01:30:24,557 --> 01:30:25,799
MATTHEW: Candle orange.
1549
01:30:25,834 --> 01:30:27,042
As far as I can tell,
1550
01:30:27,076 --> 01:30:28,906
the thing had
no definable edges to it.
1551
01:30:28,940 --> 01:30:30,079
There were no,
like, dimensions.
1552
01:30:30,114 --> 01:30:32,737
It was just kind of waxing
and waning
1553
01:30:32,772 --> 01:30:34,463
till it zapped out.
1554
01:30:34,498 --> 01:30:36,707
You know, our band director,
he never stops for anything.
1555
01:30:36,741 --> 01:30:39,468
He stopped and turned around
and looked at this and goes,
1556
01:30:39,503 --> 01:30:41,263
"What the hell was that?"
1557
01:30:41,297 --> 01:30:44,266
Before I had time to even think
of what I was seeing, it was gone.
1558
01:30:44,300 --> 01:30:46,268
And then it was just kind of
an imprint in your mind,
1559
01:30:46,302 --> 01:30:47,959
like I've seen
something strange.
1560
01:30:51,446 --> 01:30:55,484
DAVID: So, in your gut,
are the two issues related?
1561
01:30:55,519 --> 01:30:58,107
I often wonder now.
1562
01:30:58,142 --> 01:31:00,282
All I can say is it happened
within the same time frame
1563
01:31:00,316 --> 01:31:03,112
basically as
my experience here.
1564
01:31:03,147 --> 01:31:06,046
About half a mile over there,
as the crow would fly.
1565
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:09,498
BRUCE: This is a Blackberry.
1566
01:31:10,775 --> 01:31:13,260
On the back it has the lens.
1567
01:31:13,295 --> 01:31:14,607
It's not like the modern ones.
1568
01:31:14,641 --> 01:31:18,300
It has a camera on the front
and a camera at the back.
1569
01:31:18,334 --> 01:31:20,198
Though I'd be taking
your picture right now,
1570
01:31:20,233 --> 01:31:21,993
but I would not be
taking my picture.
1571
01:31:22,856 --> 01:31:24,617
Something happened
to the camera.
1572
01:31:24,651 --> 01:31:26,308
I don't know what.
1573
01:31:26,342 --> 01:31:29,484
But there's hard evidence of
some weird thing that happened.
1574
01:31:29,518 --> 01:31:32,694
She took a couple of pictures
of herself before the event,
1575
01:31:32,728 --> 01:31:37,457
which provided a fixed point of
investigation, you might say.
1576
01:31:37,492 --> 01:31:39,666
And she took
another picture afterwards.
1577
01:31:39,701 --> 01:31:42,842
So you have the camera phone
doing its normal thing
1578
01:31:42,876 --> 01:31:44,326
before and after,
1579
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,640
but right in the middle,
with this one photo,
1580
01:31:47,674 --> 01:31:50,194
something bizarre happened.
1581
01:31:50,228 --> 01:31:54,129
The picture she took,
the resolution somehow changed
1582
01:31:54,163 --> 01:31:55,510
for that one picture.
1583
01:31:58,029 --> 01:32:01,930
You could manually change the
cellphone 1600x1200,
1584
01:32:02,758 --> 01:32:05,520
1024x760,
or something like that.
1585
01:32:05,554 --> 01:32:07,383
And 640X480.
1586
01:32:07,418 --> 01:32:11,008
But it got changed
to 500X400 or something.
1587
01:32:11,042 --> 01:32:13,010
Numbers that don't exist.
1588
01:32:13,044 --> 01:32:15,840
I don't know how to
make it do that resolution.
1589
01:32:15,875 --> 01:32:18,740
You have to get it out
and re-wire it somehow,
1590
01:32:18,774 --> 01:32:20,224
or it changed the software.
1591
01:32:20,949 --> 01:32:22,364
But even changing the software
1592
01:32:22,398 --> 01:32:26,368
doesn't change the pixels
along the edge of the sensor.
1593
01:32:26,402 --> 01:32:29,405
I don't know how to explain
this film imagery stuff.
1594
01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:33,893
I can't imagine what this...
what it looks like well focused.
1595
01:32:33,927 --> 01:32:35,273
I don't know what that is.
1596
01:32:37,068 --> 01:32:39,105
DAVID: I've had people
write to me and say
1597
01:32:39,139 --> 01:32:43,385
"What that is is that Jan took
a picture of her own hair."
1598
01:32:43,419 --> 01:32:46,595
My hair was back. Through the
back of the ball cap.
1599
01:32:47,872 --> 01:32:50,392
Where it...
It was tied back.
1600
01:32:50,426 --> 01:32:52,946
DAVID: So, there was no part of
you that could have been in that?
1601
01:32:52,981 --> 01:32:54,534
JAN: No way. No way.
1602
01:32:54,569 --> 01:32:56,571
It'll be possible for us
to take a picture,
1603
01:32:57,641 --> 01:33:00,264
of her hair,
if she put her hand back there.
1604
01:33:00,298 --> 01:33:02,577
But that wouldn't
change the resolution
1605
01:33:02,611 --> 01:33:05,925
of the camera or the
byte size of the picture.
1606
01:33:05,959 --> 01:33:07,202
DAVID: So, Jan, let me ask you,
1607
01:33:07,236 --> 01:33:09,963
since that has happened,
has it changed your life?
1608
01:33:10,999 --> 01:33:12,587
Yeah, I've never been
back in that wood.
1609
01:33:12,621 --> 01:33:16,452
I actually ended up buying
a Redneck deer blind.
1610
01:33:16,487 --> 01:33:18,765
I mean, I want something
surrounding me.
1611
01:33:21,147 --> 01:33:23,321
BRUCE: Imagine if you
saw something in the woods
1612
01:33:23,356 --> 01:33:26,152
some strange thing like that
like the...
1613
01:33:26,186 --> 01:33:28,603
you'd probably be wary
of going back there, too.
1614
01:33:47,449 --> 01:33:49,624
DAVID: When looking at
these cases individually,
1615
01:33:50,279 --> 01:33:52,627
Aaron Hedges, Tom Messick,
1616
01:33:53,351 --> 01:33:54,974
Mel Nadel,
1617
01:33:55,008 --> 01:33:58,805
it's easy to pass them off as
isolated strange occurrences.
1618
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:00,289
Anomalies.
1619
01:34:00,324 --> 01:34:03,465
But when you look from
an informed perspective,
1620
01:34:03,499 --> 01:34:07,642
and you see hundreds of victims
falling in to same profile points
1621
01:34:07,676 --> 01:34:11,646
scattered throughout our national
forests and national parks,
1622
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:14,338
you have to stop and
question the reality of it.
1623
01:34:15,995 --> 01:34:18,963
Is it possible for
an 82-year-old man
1624
01:34:18,998 --> 01:34:22,173
with heart, eye
and hearing issues
1625
01:34:22,208 --> 01:34:24,693
to simply vanish while
sitting alone in the woods?
1626
01:34:26,591 --> 01:34:31,527
Can a man with severe hypothermia
hike six miles through
1627
01:34:31,562 --> 01:34:34,254
a foot and a half to two feet
of snow with no shoes?
1628
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:36,981
In many of the cases,
1629
01:34:37,016 --> 01:34:40,398
rifles, pistols and archery
equipment are never found.
1630
01:34:40,433 --> 01:34:44,195
These items don't blow away and
animals don't drag them off.
1631
01:34:45,714 --> 01:34:49,511
Sometimes, their remains are
found miles and miles off track,
1632
01:34:49,545 --> 01:34:53,032
where the victim had no
intention of ever going.
1633
01:34:53,066 --> 01:34:57,174
Often, they're found in an area
that's been searched dozens of times.
1634
01:34:57,208 --> 01:35:00,556
It's like they've been placed there
after the searchers have left.
1635
01:35:04,629 --> 01:35:05,734
To this point,
1636
01:35:05,769 --> 01:35:08,219
we've investigated close
to 1200 cases
1637
01:35:08,254 --> 01:35:10,739
that fit theMissing
411 profile.
1638
01:35:12,879 --> 01:35:14,605
They're not all hunters.
1639
01:35:14,639 --> 01:35:19,058
Some are children, some are people
vacationing in national parks,
1640
01:35:19,092 --> 01:35:22,717
some are just out taking
a walk in nature.
1641
01:35:22,751 --> 01:35:27,204
Each are beyond the scope of
normal scientific understanding.
130758
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