Original subtitles

So I buy this woman's book, Erica Garza,

and she's so vulnerable in it,

she's so, like forthcoming about the type of disgusting porn

she likes, what it's done to her family,

and then what she's doing to come back from it.

I would really love to meet this girl to talk about it.

Surprisingly comfy.

And the thing that scared me about her was, like,

she did the work and then she stopped.

And then on top of that, she wrote an article

about that meeting without telling me.

Oh, wow.

So I felt very unsafe, which as you know

attracted me more to the situation.

Right, right.

When are you gonna help yourself?

You're gonna fucking kill yourself helping everyone else?

Stop doing that.

Every time you eat the cheese, you get weird.

But cheese...

cures addiction!

I know, and you've helped a lot of people.

I've helped thousands!

So when are you going to help yourself?

♪ Come with me ♪

♪ Go out tonight ♪

♪ Leave all our bad blood behind ♪

♪ Forget all our past troubles ♪

♪ Let's try not to fight ♪

♪ Baby, we should just start over ♪

♪ We've got no cho‐‐ ♪

‐

‐Hi. ‐Hi.

Have a seat. Come on in.

It's good to see you.

Good to see you too.

When I say I don't feel safe with her

like it's not like physically, it's just

she's a writer and I'm scared of writers because I'm like

what the fuck are they going to write?

So let's just start with right now in this moment.

How do you‐‐ how do you feel being here?

‐I feel good. ‐Yeah?

Yeah, I feel fine.

‐These are bricks of clay. ‐Yeah.

I want you to separate yourself from, like,

‐we have to make something cool. ‐Okay.

As we go deep into each other's souls.

‐Yeah. ‐Just let whatever happened, just let it happen.

‐No! ‐I'll never give up this ball.

‐No! I will destroy you! ‐Get the fuck off me.

I don't like office humor, I don't like office culture

I don't like the show The Office,

I don't even like office supplies.

That's not true, I actually really love office supplies.

But I love Rainn Wilson.

We care about each other in a confrontational way.

We call it, "carefrontation."

Before you got here, I was talking about

if chefs are artists or not.

You could be a chef and create, like, a piece of art

but at the end of the day it's supposed to be functional,

you're supposed to eat it and live off of it, right?

‐Right. ‐I guess my frustration as an artist

is I hate portraits.

Right.

I‐I hate portraits and I know I'm good at it.

And I think it's‐‐ isn't a portrait painting someone like a photograph anyway?

If that's the goal then there's already photographs.

When I first met Neil Strauss

he gave me a homework assignment,

write down the three biggest misconceptions

people have about you,

and then write down why they're right?

My fucking mind was blown. The fuck?

And he's been my favorite writer ever since.

Like I assume when I got the call that you were

‐doing this... ‐Yeah.

I wasn't like, "Oh, I'm gonna get like a narcissistic portrait

to then hang on my wall that looks like me."

‐I just assume that whatever you see through your eyes... ‐Right...

...is, or and your feelings and whatever's gonna‐

whatever the end result is, and that's not up to me.

‐Right... ‐You know what I mean?

So if someone's coming in disappointed about something

then they're not really letting you be an artist are they?

Okay, making lines.

This abstract shit doesn't make any sense at all.

What kind of artist is your dad?

My dad is an abstract artist, oil on canvas.

We lived in Nicaragua when I was a kid

and he was kind of influenced by Central American

Indian kind of art.

He even, when I was growing up, wrote books of poetry.

He's written 11 science fiction and fantasy novels.

He was in his own world.

He would get up and he would go to work,

he worked as a sewer truck dispatcher

and then he'd come home

and he would paint abstract oil paintings.

And a lot of it was like women with boobs

kind of like Picasso women with boobs.

And did you feel weird when you saw that?

I did. I wrote him a note and I said,

"Can you please stop drawing women's boobs?"

Wow...

Can you combine white and the this?

No rules. We had this kid in here the other day,

Denzel Curry, he's a rapper,

all we were doing is pushing paint around.

Right, right...

We're not trying to make anything cool

but even in that I was like, "Ah, fuck!"

Like, if he mixes it too much it's just gonna be gray.

Right, right...

And I was starting to cringe and he didn't give a fuck

he was just like, wax on, wax off.

Flicking paint and it just started turning into just nothing.

Just a wall of gray and I was like... I started judging.

It's almost like if you went to the studio

and you're making a beat.

I mean, it starts to sound good.

And then you're just adding too many, like too much

into it and just gets cluttered and noisy and becomes shitty.

Be hard for him to watch, but fun for you.

I think the problem is once you define yourself as an artist

or a rapper, you're already done.

Rick Rubin, the producer, who...

He's like a mentor to you, right?

And, uh... and he's like, "The best artists have a sense of play."

It's like when you lose that sense of play,

you kind of lose it.

Artists who have long careers are the ones who have that sense of play.

Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun‐fun.

I just grew up drawing dudes

in six packs and He‐Man and Incredible Hulk.

And just anytime I drew a woman, it would look like,

not by choice, like a Picasso, like the boob would be up here.

Cause I just didn't, I didn't know what women look like.

I remember when I was 10 staring

at men's crotches, you know, wondering what was under there

and staring at women's breasts and sort of being curious

but I wasn't exposed to anything.

So I didn't know.

My mom, the only time she ever addressed sex,

we were driving to the local high school and she pointed out

a few pregnant girls who were probably around 16 or so.

And she said, "Don't ever let that happen to you."

And then she pointed to between my legs and said,

"Don't let anyone ever touch you down there."

And so I automatically assumed

that that area, that's something bad.

‐It's, like, bad... ‐That's a bad area.

And not to be touched.

Did your dad ever talk to you like that?

No. He never, he never had conscious conversations

‐about emotional topics. ‐It's like, "Hey, you know..."

His talk to me about sex was, "Just don't go getting any girls pregnant."

My dad's talk was very similar and he said...

And I was like, I, what, what are you talking about?

He's like, "Take a very cold shower

and then just go run around the block like five times

and the blood will go back into your body.

And so just run your boners away."

‐ ‐I was like, "Thanks, Dad."

That was the best talk I ever...

He was like, "Yeah, just run it, run it out of your system."

I feel like that's a great title for like an album

or something, "Run Your Boners Away."

I started watching pornography not too long after that.

Where? How did you get to it?

Late nights. Cinemax. My parents went to bed.

I was watching late‐night TV and there it was.

I'm a little bit older than you.

The access was not there.

Like, I had to go on a mission to get it.

Part of the thrill though,

because I remember thinking they might catch me.

They might come down.

They were hearing like a creek in the hallway.

And later I would re‐create that feeling.

I mean much later, when I had access

to Internet and it was streaming porn was available.

It was that same feeling that I remember

from when I was a child, of like,

"Oh, no, I'm not supposed to be watching this, but it, it...

you know, I'm gonna keep watching it."

And my adrenaline be racing

and I'd feel terrible about myself.

It was all part of that sensation of pleasure because I

didn't know how to have the pleasure without the shame.

My first girlfriend at this new high school dumped me.

I slept on the floor of my closet.

That's where I'd throw my dirty clothes,

like on the closet floor.

‐Right. ‐And I would just go sleep in there.

So I spent a good deal of my junior year of high school

sleeping on the floor of my closet.

In just abject misery.

I started getting bullied at school.

I was back‐braced, isolating myself.

‐That's the worst. ‐And at the same time my parents had another child.

So I was feeling isolated at home.

So I had all these places where I was feeling rejected

and terrible about my body.

And the only way that I knew how to cope with that

was by masturbating more,

because it was the only way I can just

shut off those feelings and just, you know,

settle into my body and escape.

I started acting basically

because I could make people laugh and they liked me

and girls liked me.

Girls, like, never touched me.

So all of a sudden there's a hand

on my shoulder and, you know, Bess Myer or Tria Smith

or whomever was kind of like, "That was so funny.

Will you sit at our lunch table?"

‐Whoa. ‐And I was just, I was high as a kite.

It was the same thing.

Pin‐‐ Love pinwheels were going off in my head.

‐Yes. ‐

Like, "Sure, where's... when's lunch?"

Lunch, I came in, there's the girls.

There's Bess Myers and Tria Smith and I'll sit with them

and they were like, "You are so funny.

Where are you from? Tell us."

At that point, I was like

I'm not going to do anything else other

‐than act and try and make people laugh. ‐Yes.

Then when I started to get attention

from boys and from men...

Then I felt like, "Oh, I don't need friendships.

I can just give all of my energy to this.

And look, I'm still getting intimacy and connection

and I can use my body as a bridge to get those things."

And so what I really craved was intimacy

and that intimacy that I felt robbed of from when

I was an adolescent,

going through those years of being bullied.

And pornography, well, is the opposite of intimacy.

Right.

I've been talking openly about my struggle with porn

and masturbation and just sex addiction and just addiction

in general and how obsessive and powerless it makes me feel.

I'm still, like, guarded and hesitant when I talk

about it to anybody, because they're like, "I don't get it.

What's the big deal?"

So there's this urge to turn it into a joke.

I find writing about it to be much different

than trying to talk about it openly with people.

I think as a culture, we're mostly not ready to talk

about these things. A majority, you know‐‐

majority of people aren't ready to talk about these things.

It's wrong. Don't you think it's wrong?

I'm not going to say what's right and wrong.

I think it's for every person to decide.

‐I think it's so powerful. ‐Right.

‐It's everywhere. ‐Right.

‐Like sometimes you end up on porn without even trying. ‐Right.

You'll be reading a news story in the New York Times and it'll be like,

"Check out these NFL players' hot wives."

And then all of a sudden my dick's out and I'm like, wait...

I just kept going deeper and deeper in that hole.

And then hours would be whisked away.

'Cause I'm trying to find that perfect clip

and I can't find it and I get frustrated.

And finally I'd find it.

And then I'd have to find something to top it.

What is the feeling that you're feeling at that moment?

Oh, self‐disgust, self‐hatred...

loneliness, nobody's ever gonna love me.

This is the kind of stuff I'm into.

What's wrong with me?

I spent my entire childhood trying to figure out

what the fuck was going on around me.

My dad went to an office job and then came home

‐and painted giant pictures of naked women. ‐Right.

My mom had taken off when I was about two years old.

I find myself at three with a new mom.

I got spanked a lot.

I got raged at a lot.

Fuck you, Mom.

You come from a shame place, a shame corner

‐they call it, right? ‐Yeah.

And which is, you go‐‐ You feel less than others.

I think like so many people's stuff, they were raised

with poor boundaries or they had shame‐inducing parents,

or like the opposite, shameless.

Right. So them trying to say, to make that wrong or bad

is them shaming your natural self, which is why

you're beating yourself up for all this other shit.

‐So the good parents... ‐Yeah.

we just let the children be their spontaneous selves

and if it's annoying them, then guess what?

The parent doesn't have to be around it.

And maybe you should, like, learn to increase your own capacity.

That's nuts. That's about you, and work on that.

Hey, what's that on your shoulder?

Gonna have to hit you!

Oh, baby, that hurt.

I was gone.

I started doing drama and my dad was really weird about it.

And he was always really supportive about all the arts that I did.

I played music and I did drawing

and he wasn't, like, against it.

He wasn't like, "You're not gonna act."

It's not that but he just wasn't...

He was just very weird about it.

‐Okay. ‐I'm getting to know my birth mother.

I had a conversation with her in a graveyard

in Salem, Massachusetts.

And I said, "Why did you leave me and my dad?"

And she said, "Do you mean you don't know,

your dad never told you?"

And I was like, "No, he was always very vague."

She welled up with tears and she said,

"I was an actress in Seattle in the late '60s, when you were born.

And I had an affair with the theater director.

Your dad was heartbroken and he begged me to leave the guy.

I wouldn't leave the guy.

And so we got a divorce

and I went to be with this theater director.

And that only lasted like six months."

And then she said, "I felt so ashamed at that point...

I just, I just left...

and you stayed with your dad."

Why was I even born?

Well, your father and I chose to bring you into this world.

We wanted to have a baby, even besides the life that I had.

You know, like I said, I regretted it.

You know, I regretted a great deal of it, but I'm healing now

and I'm in a better and I'm in a stronger place.

And I love you.

And I'm proud to have you in this world.

My first girlfriend dumped me

and it took me, like, years to get over.

So you think that trauma started you on a very hard journey.

Oh, it fucked me up. I can't talk about it

'cause people are like, "Boo‐hoo. So what, you broke up."

And I go, "Okay, fine.

It took you like two seconds to get over that."

But for me, it's like I was beyond heartbroken.

I was devastated.

So now I'm diving into it, of this like heartache...

this darkness, like if I draw better,

maybe she would've stayed with me.

So I've always associated heartbreak,

chaos, torture, trauma

as making me a better artist.

As long as I'm tortured, that I'll live through...

That pushes you forward...

...and I'll carry that energy

and it'll, it'll fuel my art and I'll become the greatest artist.

And once I become the greatest artist,

no one will ever leave me.

I'm, one morning,

about eight years ago, on the cover of the New York Times.

‐I was making the most outlandish... ‐Demands.

Yeah. They were like‐‐

I never thought in my life I would get to talk to Howard Stern.

‐Right. ‐And then for my second interview, I'll only talk

to Barbara Walters, but only if she does graffiti.

And if I could get the great Neil Strauss to

write a cover story for me at Rolling Stone then like...

'Cause if not, then what's the point?

They said, "You think you're going to outsell a Jay‐Z on the cover?"

And I was like, "I guarantee it.

And if I don't, I'll pay the difference."

Something that I've always been addicted to

in my life that I'm trying to get over is status.

So seeking status, popularity, through acting

and getting my self‐esteem

through acting and work has been my central addiction.

So if I ask you have you made it,

what would your answer be?

There's certain stars where it's just like,

"Oh, it's Tom Cruise," or whatever.

"It's Tom Hardy," or it's, you know,

there's stars on a certain level like Leonardo DiCaprio.

It's Leo is the star.

For me, it's kind of like "the guy who played Dwight."

You know what I mean?

It's like they haven't seen‐‐

No one's seen all the indie films that I've done.

So then what does it feel like right now,

people want to like talk to you and interview you.

‐You're getting all this attention. ‐Yeah.

Your book's selling, like, how does that feel?

It's different every day.

I mean, it's not like I'm going to expose this thing about myself

and now all of my problems are solved.

I don't feel the shame anymore.

I don't feel lonely anymore.

But you know, I feel...

Even on the days where I'm like, "Oh, why did I do this?

You know, everyone just wants to talk about porn with me."

I know in the end that I'm speaking up

for people who still feel so ashamed and so alone

and it's helping them in some way feel less alone.

And so I know it was worth it and I would always do it again.

The guy that picked me up at the airport, he's like,

"Dude, The Game changed my life."

And I go, "Well, have you read The Truth?"

And it's almost like he wanted to pretend

‐like that book didn't exist. ‐Right.

He's like, he's like old Star Wars,

‐the new stuff never happened. ‐Totally.

And I couldn't find The Game at Barnes and Noble's.

‐Right. ‐So then the person at Barnes and Noble's is like,

"We have the book, we have lots of copies.

It's just behind the counter."

I know, it's awesome.

And I was like, I was like, "Why?"

And they're like, "It's in Barnes and Noble's history

as the most shoplifted book."

‐Yeah. ‐And I was like, "Fuck."

And I was like, "What about The Truth?"

‐And they're like, "No, not so much." ‐Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

I've been with you at a Comic‐Con before.

They pay money to take selfies with you.

They cry when they see you.

Like, yes, that would be in my definition...

But I know that that's not me.

That's not Rainn Wilson.

That's Dwight Schrute and this amazing show.

And it's like...

How is that not you? That's you just saying,

all the fucked‐up shit that happened in your life,

you brought that to that character.

So how is that not you?

The reason you talk like that to yourself

is usually because of what happened in your childhood.

I mean, my main childhood trauma is abandonment.

I got sent away. So there's always, even as an adult,

a feeling of if I don't do the right thing

that I can be sent away.

Hearing you constantly say that you're sick

doesn't seem like the answer.

It doesn't seem like you're helping yourself.

And yeah, you've cut out the porn

and you're going to see a therapist...

Oh, I still struggle with it.

...but you're constantly saying that you're sick.

And I'm just wondering what that's doing for you?

For me, there's peace in that.

There's‐‐ There's no, like, guessing of,

"Oh, like maybe you're healed now."

When you asked me, like, what I get

from just identifying still as a sick person.

It's like, I have like terminal cancer basically.

I've done all this work to live the best life I can with this disease.

And I'm cool with that.

And some days I struggle

and some days are easier, but...

I can never forget what I am, you know?

That's the struggle, I guess.

Tell me about the pain.

Where does it hurt you in your body? Where do you feel it?

In my heart.

I just, I'm so angry.

‐What are you angry about? ‐About not having money,

about being Asian, about my girlfriend leaving me,

About... just everything sucks.

But you're on a journey to learn to love yourself.

You don't love yourself very much right now

because your parents didn't show you how.

Why don't you go to therapy? Why don't you get some help?

This is what I struggle with.

The shit that happened to you happened a long time ago.

You don't have to just keep fucking replaying

the same shit over and over again.

Little David thinks he's going to get sent away if he misbehaves.

You have to realize, okay, little David,

you're not with your parents anymore.

No one's going to send you away and you're gonna be just fine.

Self‐acceptance was more of a solution for me.

And then I realized that I had never given

myself permission to just be an open

experimental sexual person and just be okay with that.

Monogamy didn't work. Polyamory didn't work.

You know, being platonic didn't work. Nothing worked.

Right.

And I had to recognize it was me that was broken,

it wasn't like the culture that was keeping me down.

We all have a brokenness. We all have cracks in us

and that's where the light shines through.

And that's what makes you an artist.

And that's what makes you special.

‐ ‐Stop yelling at me! I hate you!

You're gona go through a really terrible twenty‐some years

of pain and heartbreak and rejection.

But you're also gonna master your craft as an artist.

You're going to travel the world.

You're gonna have incredible experiences.

You're going to meet great people.

You're gonna play in a rock band.

You're gonna become friends with Howard Stern.

Hey, David, you're grown up now.

No one's gonna send you away.

I'm gonna protect you. You do whatever you want.

You just enjoy life. You be free.

You be happy. I'm gonna take care of you.

I'm gonna handle this and we're gonna be okay.

I love you, Dave.

Can you love yourself?

I'm gonna try.

♪ Do you really mean it? ♪

♪ Can you believe it? ♪

♪ Uh‐huh ♪

♪ Everyone will see me ♪

♪ Everyone will please me ♪

♪ Rules are faded ♪

♪ Uh‐huh ♪

♪ I don't know if I'm inside your destiny ♪

♪ You and me ♪

♪ We're a blu masheen ♪

♪ I don't know if I'm inside your destiny ♪

♪ You and me ♪

♪ We're a blu masheen ♪

♪ Blu ♪

♪ Masheen ♪

♪ Blu ♪

♪ Masheen ♪

♪ I saw some water in the middle of the sea ♪

♪ Walked up to it and I realized the truth was not serene ♪

♪ A dream can be a monster that reveals itself to you ♪