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Hi, everybody.
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We're still in lockdown in California.
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I hope you and your family are faring well.
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Today on Apple TV+ Oprah Talks
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I wanted to have a conversation about mindfulness.
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Now, it may be a term
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that you've heard over the years.
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It's actually a principle that I've been using in my life
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for a very long time,
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and I practice it daily, but I have to tell you
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it really is an offering of assurance
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when you're in challenging times,
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this principle of mindfulness.
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I'm gonna talk to the man
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who's known as the father of mindfulness,
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Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn.
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So, his credentials,
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he's professor of medicine emeritus
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at the University of Massachusetts Medical School,
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where he is the one, among others,
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who founded its world-renowned mindfulness space
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Stress Reduction Clinic.
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And with all the challenges that we are facing today,
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I thought having this practice of mindfulness
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introduced to us by Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn
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would help us navigate these unchartered waters
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we're all in.
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Jon Kabat-Zinn,
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I've been thinking a lot about you
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for such a time as this.
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We've had multiple conversations over the years.
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I think we first started talking about
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mindfulness in the '90s on The Oprah Show.
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Yep.
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One of the reasons I wanted to speak to you
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and have you speak to the world
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through this Apple format
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is that in one of our last conversations,
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you said, "As long as you are breathing,
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there is more right with you than wrong with you
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no matter what is wrong."
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And so I think those words
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or that mantra
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and have that be a part of our space
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in this particular moment,
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our living space at this moment,
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as long as you are breathing,
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there is more right with you
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than wrong with you
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no matter what is wrong with you.
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I think it's a good thing to remind ourselves,
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particularly in this moment.
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Yes, and the irony of it is that
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that's what the COVID-19 virus
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threatens the most in us.
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But this is the kind of entry portal
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into sanity and clarity
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at a time of very great threat and danger.
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And so that's what meditation practice
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has always been is connecting
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with the full dimensionality of the present moment
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without getting lost in fear,
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for instance, or lost in thought
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and a kind of thinking that tries to strategize
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how I get the best
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out of a bad situation or, you know,
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just focusing on myself
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and my own small self-interest.
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And the beauty-- the sort of hidden lining
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in a catastrophe like this
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is that we see an outpouring of generosity
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and kindness and caring for each other
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because the fact of the matter is,
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we're all in this together.
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-Right. -We're all in this together.
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It's like all hands on deck on spaceship earth, basically.
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So this means that
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if you're not a first responder,
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you're doing this for the benefit of humanity
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to keep yourself sequestered. Even if it's difficult.
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Even if your home situation is challenging.
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Or worse,
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if you don't have a home. If you're homeless.
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If you're one of the people in this society
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lacking in some of the basic privileges
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of being a member of our, you know, society or culture.
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That all clearly needs to change.
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If we don't take care of everybody,
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then we're not going to take care of
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what's most important.
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So how--what advice would you give people
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to specifically begin to cope with the stress?
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I mean, so many people are at home
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with people all the time.
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You're confined in small spaces--
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It gets on your nerves.
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It's getting on your nerves.
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You're trying to hold onto your mind.
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-How can people... -Right.
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Begin to cope with the stress and anxiety?
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Okay, so mindfulness is really awareness.
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And this is kind of like a hidden gold mine
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for human beings is that we get a lot of training
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in thinking
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and we kind of naturally emotionally react.
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But we get no training on how to access
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this profound form of intelligence
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called awareness. So it's nothing special.
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We have it all the time.
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The question is, can we trust it?
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Can we learn to inhabit it?
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And so when you see your mind
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getting agitated or depressed
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or angry or irritable
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and even at your children who, of course we love,
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but when, you know, we are-- our work is being challenged
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and we've got these kids at home
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and we don't know how to maximize the day,
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this is a time to actually drop in
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on awareness itself
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including awareness of our reactivity,
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our emotional reactivity, our anger,
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our shortness of temper. All of those kinds of things.
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You can do that by tuning into your breathing.
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Because your breathing will broadcast
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or telegraph what you're reacting to.
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That you're getting stressed out.
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So you're saying, come back to your breath.
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-Just come back-- -[Jon] Exactly.
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-[Jon] You're feeling it. -So come back to your breath
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meaning when you're feeling stress
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and you see yourself getting out of control,
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change that thought
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and just become aware of your breath.
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Exactly. But you don't need to change the thought.
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You just don't need to pursue it.
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-Or the emotions. -Don't pursue the thought.
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So then you see awareness becomes a refuge.
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-Aha. -You can actually take refuge
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in your own awareness
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which is vast and super intelligent.
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Isn't it important to not suppress the feelings,
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because you can't tell people not to worry.
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But to at least give yourself
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a limited amount of time to worry.
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So sit with the feeling of uncertainty.
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Sit with the feeling of
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you're not sure what's gonna happen.
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Sit with the feeling of worry
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if you must.
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But learning how to rest
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in the not knowing
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is really important right now, I've heard you say.
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You are such a super meditation teacher.
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-[laughs] -I mean, that's it.
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And the more we do this,
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the more we're going to come out of this
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better and stronger and wiser
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because, you know, this is not gonna be
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the last pandemic we face.
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The country is-- really needs--
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it's an opportunity to look at our priorities
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and how we define ourselves
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because we're all in this together.
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It is all hands on deck on spaceship earth, as I said.
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And, you know, we need to learn how to honor each other in ways
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that perhaps we've not done up to this point.
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I think that's so difficult,
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particularly for Type As out there,
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people who having the certainty,
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or having had the certainty that things--
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particularly people of privilege,
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are--and we are among those people of privilege--
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For sure.
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Who are accustomed-- that would be everybody
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who's accustomed to waking up
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and really expecting things today
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to be like they were yesterday.
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See, this is the big, powerful lesson
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to be learned here is that nobody ever has the right
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to expect things to be the way they were yesterday.
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It's what's called ignorance.
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It's delusion.
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And the fact that we've gotten away
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with it for so long doesn't mean that
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that's going to be the way things are
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all the time, and when you learn that change
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defines everything, the unexpected,
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the impermanence of everything, then you have,
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and this is the heart of mindfulness practice,
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then you have an entirely different repertoire
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of capacities to bring to the present moment.
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And that not knowing,
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suspending judgment element of it,
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and not getting out in front of yourself,
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that can make the difference between life and death,
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sanity and insanity, and kindness
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and self-interest run amok.
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Right.
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So since so many people are at home dealing with work
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or kids or a sick loved one,
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what are those simple mindfulness techniques?
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You know, I loved when you--
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you've said this to me many times.
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And I think it's in one of the books.
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That when you're in the shower, just be in the shower.
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-Yeah. -Yeah.
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Yeah, I use that as an example because,
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you know, every moment is an opportunity
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to actually practice being present.
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So a lot of the time when we're in the shower,
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we're worrying or we're thinking
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about the next meeting we're going to go to
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or work or whatever.
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You're saying you have your 10:00 meeting
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in the shower before you even get to
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-the 10:00 meeting. -That's right.
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You have the whole meeting in the shower
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with you in your own mind.
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And that's the way we are as human beings.
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So that's just an example.
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Like when you're brushing your teeth,
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can you brush your teeth?
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[Oprah] Be right there.
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Here is something that might be a valuable suggestion
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for a lot of us who are basically,
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you know, staying in place at home
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and practicing social distancing.
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When you wake up in the morning...
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try to wake up like 10 minutes earlier.
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So that you're in charge of something.
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You have decided to control some aspect of life
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because so much of it is out of our control.
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And for those extra 10 minutes that you're giving yourself,
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lie on your back
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and just appreciate the fact that you're breathing.
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Appreciate the fact that you can let your awareness
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fill the body and feel the body
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from the sensations in the bottoms
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of your feet and your toes
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right up through the top of your head
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and from the fingers and thumbs
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right up through your shoulders.
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And just ask yourself,
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am I awake in this moment?
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Can I feel my breathing? Am I okay now, for now?
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And all you need to do is be okay for now.
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Because there's no predicting the next moment of now.
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Yes.
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I mean, they've been estimating, like, you know,
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certain stressors will take years off your life.
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But not if you have effective ways of handling it.
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[Oprah] Okay, Jon, I want to take people
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back to exactly what you said
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'cause that's how I have gotten through
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every crisis in my life.
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I remember when there was a terrible thing
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that had happened at my school during the first year.
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This is over, you know, 13 years ago now
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there was a crisis at my school.
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-[Jon] In South Africa. -In South Africa.
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And I got through it by just completely coming back
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to exactly what you just said.
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Right now, I'm okay. Right now, I'm okay.
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Right now, I'm okay.
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And then, in the next moment, now what do I do?
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What is the next right move?
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But right now, I'm okay. Right now, I'm okay.
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And making the next right move depending on what's going on
270
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in your household is, hug your children.
271
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Or help wake them up and connect with them
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-in a way that... -Yeah.
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Right now appreciates how okay they are.
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So you being okay,
275
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appreciating them being okay,
276
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even if they're driving you crazy
277
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-under the circumstances. -[Oprah] Yes.
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It's very challenging.
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But when you remember that,
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then in this moment, you're already grounded.
281
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-[Oprah] Yeah. -You're already calm.
282
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You're already in touch with what's most important.
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-[Oprah] I think that that is-- -And the next moment
284
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will take care of itself.
285
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And the next moment is gonna take care of itself
286
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I think is a very important thing
287
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for everyone to remind yourself
288
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of now that I'm okay.
289
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We're okay.
290
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You have a roof over your head.
291
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You have enough food.
292
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Hopefully you have enough toilet paper.
293
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You have enough toilet paper.
294
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-[Jon] True. -And right now, we're okay.
295
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-We're okay. -[Jon] For now.
296
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For now. So how important is it
297
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for parents to practice this mindfulness
298
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in order to benefit their children?
299
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:45,828
Because I think the children are--
300
00:12:45,912 --> 00:12:47,789
easy for me to say, I know.
301
00:12:47,872 --> 00:12:49,749
So you all don't even have to tell me that.
302
00:12:49,832 --> 00:12:51,376
Easy for me to say because I don't have
303
00:12:51,459 --> 00:12:52,919
young children in the house.
304
00:12:53,002 --> 00:12:54,587
But I do know that young children
305
00:12:54,671 --> 00:12:56,923
are going to mimic the energy
306
00:12:57,006 --> 00:12:58,925
that the parents bring into the home.
307
00:12:59,008 --> 00:13:01,177
Not just the words and the angst.
308
00:13:01,261 --> 00:13:03,429
But they're going to mimic the energy.
309
00:13:03,513 --> 00:13:05,473
Not only that, but depending on their age,
310
00:13:05,557 --> 00:13:07,058
I mean, if you were in school
311
00:13:07,141 --> 00:13:08,643
and all of a sudden you're not in school,
312
00:13:08,726 --> 00:13:10,603
if you have friends and all of a sudden
313
00:13:10,687 --> 00:13:12,897
the only way you can see them is on some device,
314
00:13:12,981 --> 00:13:15,525
but you can't play in the usual way,
315
00:13:15,608 --> 00:13:20,113
they're experiencing their own interior
316
00:13:20,196 --> 00:13:23,533
sort of disruption, if not complete disillusion
317
00:13:23,616 --> 00:13:25,535
of what was meaningful to them.
318
00:13:25,618 --> 00:13:28,413
And so falling back on the household
319
00:13:28,496 --> 00:13:31,666
and on the family and on their core relationships
320
00:13:31,749 --> 00:13:33,877
with parents and grandparents and so forth,
321
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:40,216
this is key to their being minimally traumatized
322
00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:43,052
going forward so that, again,
323
00:13:43,136 --> 00:13:45,555
it's like not just as long as you're breathing
324
00:13:45,638 --> 00:13:48,016
remembering there's more right with you than wrong with you.
325
00:13:48,099 --> 00:13:52,186
But that as long as we're here together, we're okay.
326
00:13:52,270 --> 00:13:53,897
-We're safe for now. -We're okay.
327
00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:55,690
It's not like we're refugees.
328
00:13:55,773 --> 00:13:57,859
We might feel like we're refugees.
329
00:13:57,942 --> 00:14:00,445
But we're also kind of closeted
330
00:14:00,528 --> 00:14:02,655
in a way that gives us refuge.
331
00:14:02,739 --> 00:14:06,242
And the real refuge isn't in our house or our home.
332
00:14:06,326 --> 00:14:08,786
The real refuge is in our heart.
333
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:11,414
And that's something that every one of us can do.
334
00:14:11,497 --> 00:14:13,875
And there's no prescription for it.
335
00:14:13,958 --> 00:14:17,003
It's not like, oh, if only I'd learned this 30 years ago
336
00:14:17,086 --> 00:14:19,589
and was a good meditator and everything.
337
00:14:19,672 --> 00:14:21,633
Then I'd be able to handle this now.
338
00:14:21,716 --> 00:14:25,136
No. The world is now our meditation teacher,
339
00:14:25,220 --> 00:14:27,597
whether we want it or not, whether we like it or not.
340
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,182
And the question is, are we gonna get
341
00:14:29,265 --> 00:14:31,059
-with this curriculum? -Yeah.
342
00:14:31,142 --> 00:14:33,144
Or are we going to be stuck with some idea
343
00:14:33,228 --> 00:14:36,314
of clinging to something that was important to us
344
00:14:36,397 --> 00:14:38,858
yesterday but now we're in a different universe.
345
00:14:38,942 --> 00:14:42,111
Yeah, I think it's--you know, what is this here to teach us?
346
00:14:42,195 --> 00:14:43,905
I would think one of the things is
347
00:14:43,988 --> 00:14:47,700
we have been forced inside
348
00:14:47,784 --> 00:14:50,161
in order to look inward.
349
00:14:50,245 --> 00:14:52,413
-[Jon] And to wake up. -And to wake up.
350
00:14:52,497 --> 00:14:53,998
Yeah, because if you're just looking in there
351
00:14:54,082 --> 00:14:55,375
-and nothing happens... -This is huge.
352
00:14:55,458 --> 00:14:57,168
-You don't wake up. -This is huge.
353
00:14:57,252 --> 00:14:59,837
Well, I know 20,000 people joined you
354
00:14:59,921 --> 00:15:03,758
in a meditation the other day, which is an example of--
355
00:15:03,841 --> 00:15:06,135
20,000 people from around the world
356
00:15:06,219 --> 00:15:09,722
which just speaks to how people are yearning
357
00:15:09,806 --> 00:15:12,809
-for something deeper and... -Yeah.
358
00:15:12,892 --> 00:15:15,270
More fulfilling and richer in this moment.
359
00:15:15,353 --> 00:15:18,648
Can you just guide us in a minute's meditation?
360
00:15:18,731 --> 00:15:20,275
-Sure. -Sure.
361
00:15:20,358 --> 00:15:23,152
Because the real meditation is outside of time.
362
00:15:23,236 --> 00:15:26,030
-So a minute is very good. -[Oprah] A minute's good.
363
00:15:26,114 --> 00:15:27,365
Even one in breath
364
00:15:27,448 --> 00:15:28,908
and one out breath is very good.
365
00:15:28,992 --> 00:15:32,579
So especially if you've never had any experience
366
00:15:32,662 --> 00:15:34,789
with formal meditation,
367
00:15:34,873 --> 00:15:36,916
you don't even need to sit
368
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,586
in some special posture or anything.
369
00:15:39,669 --> 00:15:41,796
You can do it lying down in bed when you wake up.
370
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,965
-Or in the shower. -[Oprah] I like that.
371
00:15:44,048 --> 00:15:46,175
Or, you know, dancing with your children
372
00:15:46,259 --> 00:15:48,469
or playing games on the floor with your children
373
00:15:48,553 --> 00:15:50,263
or doing puzzles or whatever.
374
00:15:50,346 --> 00:15:53,808
But the way to practice is
375
00:15:53,892 --> 00:15:56,102
for one minute can we just right now,
376
00:15:56,185 --> 00:15:57,937
-because we're here right now. -[Oprah] Yes.
377
00:15:58,021 --> 00:16:03,443
Drop in on the feeling of being fully aware
378
00:16:03,526 --> 00:16:07,697
of the breath moving in and out of our body.
379
00:16:07,780 --> 00:16:09,616
Can we just feel the breath?
380
00:16:09,699 --> 00:16:11,159
It doesn't mean thinking about it.
381
00:16:11,242 --> 00:16:14,954
But feeling the breath moving in and moving out.
382
00:16:15,038 --> 00:16:16,998
Our eyes should be closed, right?
383
00:16:17,081 --> 00:16:18,666
No, your eyes can be open. I mean--
384
00:16:18,750 --> 00:16:19,792
Okay.
385
00:16:19,876 --> 00:16:21,252
Meditation wouldn't be very valuable
386
00:16:21,336 --> 00:16:23,630
if you had to close your eyes all the time.
387
00:16:23,713 --> 00:16:26,132
especially if you were fighting fires of one kind or another.
388
00:16:26,216 --> 00:16:27,759
-Or performing surgery. -Yes.
389
00:16:27,842 --> 00:16:29,385
Or intubations.
390
00:16:29,469 --> 00:16:30,887
So it's moment by moment.
391
00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:32,972
Whatever you're doing is the meditation.
392
00:16:33,056 --> 00:16:35,391
But can we feel that the breath
393
00:16:35,475 --> 00:16:37,560
is moving in and out of our body?
394
00:16:37,644 --> 00:16:39,646
-[Oprah] Mm-hmm. -Can we feel the body
395
00:16:39,729 --> 00:16:42,148
as a whole sitting here breathing?
396
00:16:44,025 --> 00:16:47,654
Can we be aware of the boundless spaciousness
397
00:16:47,737 --> 00:16:50,448
of our awareness itself?
398
00:16:50,532 --> 00:16:53,701
Through which, like the sky, you know, clouds
399
00:16:53,785 --> 00:16:56,204
and storms and weather patterns will arise
400
00:16:56,287 --> 00:16:59,666
that will look like fear or will look like,
401
00:16:59,749 --> 00:17:03,044
you know, depression or will look like anxiety
402
00:17:03,127 --> 00:17:06,214
or will look like anger
403
00:17:06,297 --> 00:17:08,633
and blame and self-righteousness
404
00:17:08,715 --> 00:17:11,010
and other-ing and all of that kind of stuff.
405
00:17:11,094 --> 00:17:12,887
And just realize those are--
406
00:17:12,971 --> 00:17:15,723
those are storm patterns in your own mind.
407
00:17:15,807 --> 00:17:17,475
-Mm. -And you don't have to fix
408
00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:19,686
anything or make anything go away.
409
00:17:19,769 --> 00:17:21,937
The invitation is to simply drop in
410
00:17:22,021 --> 00:17:26,484
and be the awareness
411
00:17:26,568 --> 00:17:29,445
that knows non-conceptually,
412
00:17:29,529 --> 00:17:31,406
not just thought-based,
413
00:17:31,489 --> 00:17:34,742
that all of this is unfolding and that none of it is you.
414
00:17:34,826 --> 00:17:35,994
Mm.
415
00:17:36,077 --> 00:17:39,080
That the essence of you is the awareness itself.
416
00:17:39,163 --> 00:17:41,708
And if you can learn how to inhabit the space
417
00:17:41,791 --> 00:17:45,128
of your own awareness, like take up residency,
418
00:17:45,211 --> 00:17:47,422
so to speak, in your own awareness,
419
00:17:47,505 --> 00:17:51,175
then you've got extra dimensions
420
00:17:51,259 --> 00:17:53,636
of being in your toolbox
421
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,931
that you can bring to every single moment
422
00:17:57,015 --> 00:17:59,934
that you're facing throughout the day.
423
00:18:00,018 --> 00:18:02,270
Every day is changing so fast.
424
00:18:02,353 --> 00:18:04,230
Every hour is changing so fast.
425
00:18:04,314 --> 00:18:06,649
The only thing we can do, really,
426
00:18:06,733 --> 00:18:08,401
to not lose our minds,
427
00:18:08,484 --> 00:18:11,404
is to actually trust in the unfolding
428
00:18:11,487 --> 00:18:13,907
of this moment,
429
00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:15,825
embraced in awareness,
430
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:21,414
and our own profoundly intelligent intuition
431
00:18:21,497 --> 00:18:24,584
to navigate the ups and downs with integrity,
432
00:18:24,667 --> 00:18:27,128
with kindness, with self-compassion,
433
00:18:27,212 --> 00:18:29,422
and with compassion for others.
434
00:18:30,715 --> 00:18:34,219
And then you can rest for a few breaths in silence.
435
00:18:34,302 --> 00:18:37,096
I've done a lot of talking just to prime the ramp,
436
00:18:37,180 --> 00:18:39,515
so to speak. Or prime the pump.
437
00:18:39,599 --> 00:18:44,729
But now the invitation is to just drop into stillness.
438
00:18:44,812 --> 00:18:47,607
Just for one in breath.
439
00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:50,318
Just for one out breath.
440
00:18:50,401 --> 00:18:52,195
And here we are again.
441
00:18:53,655 --> 00:18:55,740
And the breath, the beauty of it is, of course,
442
00:18:55,823 --> 00:18:58,076
you can't leave home without it, as they say.
443
00:18:58,159 --> 00:18:59,536
-Yeah. -So it's portable.
444
00:18:59,619 --> 00:19:02,121
And whether--you know, no matter what you're doing,
445
00:19:02,205 --> 00:19:04,374
you can bring that to bear.
446
00:19:04,457 --> 00:19:07,752
And it can remind you and re-body you, I should say,
447
00:19:07,835 --> 00:19:11,256
in ways that allow us to be with
448
00:19:11,339 --> 00:19:14,217
what's totally appropriate what's called for now
449
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:16,594
given our circumstances
450
00:19:16,678 --> 00:19:19,722
whether we're, you know, practicing social distancing
451
00:19:19,806 --> 00:19:21,182
or whether we're on the front lines
452
00:19:21,266 --> 00:19:23,977
in one way or another of saving the world.
453
00:19:24,060 --> 00:19:26,396
Social distancing is its own retreat, you say.
454
00:19:26,479 --> 00:19:27,814
It is. Every moment.
455
00:19:27,897 --> 00:19:28,982
The real retreat--
456
00:19:29,065 --> 00:19:30,400
but this has always been the case.
457
00:19:30,483 --> 00:19:33,361
I mean, forever, in all meditative traditions,
458
00:19:33,444 --> 00:19:35,864
the real retreat is not going off on retreat.
459
00:19:35,947 --> 00:19:38,074
The real retreat and the final exam,
460
00:19:38,157 --> 00:19:40,243
-so to speak, is life itself. -Is right--
461
00:19:40,326 --> 00:19:41,661
-It's life itself. -Yeah.
462
00:19:41,744 --> 00:19:44,622
And that's the final exam. And no one asked for it.
463
00:19:44,706 --> 00:19:47,584
But we're facing the final exam right now.
464
00:19:47,667 --> 00:19:50,336
And it invites us to bring out
465
00:19:50,420 --> 00:19:52,547
the absolute best in who we are.
466
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:55,174
Is this the final exam or is this just a big ole test
467
00:19:55,258 --> 00:19:57,135
that a lot of us weren't prepared for?
468
00:19:57,218 --> 00:19:59,470
Well, it's a big test because there's no ultimate final exam.
469
00:19:59,554 --> 00:20:01,014
We're going to make it through this.
470
00:20:01,097 --> 00:20:04,267
But as I said, there will be other challenges in the future.
471
00:20:04,350 --> 00:20:07,562
But if we use this as a wake-up call for humanity,
472
00:20:07,645 --> 00:20:10,982
not just for Americans or not just for me myself,
473
00:20:11,065 --> 00:20:14,611
then actually I think we'll learn some lessons here
474
00:20:14,694 --> 00:20:18,656
that will be beneficial for generations to come
475
00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:21,951
as we transform our understanding
476
00:20:22,035 --> 00:20:23,995
of what it truly means to be human
477
00:20:24,078 --> 00:20:26,915
and the profound interconnectedness
478
00:20:26,998 --> 00:20:32,879
that is associated with our capacity
479
00:20:32,962 --> 00:20:37,842
to actually live life the way it really matters.
480
00:20:37,926 --> 00:20:40,220
Live our lives as if they really mattered.
481
00:20:40,303 --> 00:20:42,430
And we're not in isolation.
482
00:20:42,513 --> 00:20:44,140
And it's not all about me
483
00:20:44,224 --> 00:20:46,017
being the center of the universe.
484
00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:48,937
We're all, in some sense,
485
00:20:49,020 --> 00:20:51,814
so deeply profoundly interconnectedness
486
00:20:51,898 --> 00:20:54,067
that when I take care of me
487
00:20:54,150 --> 00:20:57,070
in this kind of non-narcissistic way
488
00:20:57,153 --> 00:20:59,072
by attending to my own experience,
489
00:20:59,155 --> 00:21:01,324
I'm making space for other people
490
00:21:01,407 --> 00:21:04,327
to do the same and being able to tune to them
491
00:21:04,410 --> 00:21:06,579
in ways where they will feel recognized,
492
00:21:06,663 --> 00:21:10,667
seen, felt, heard, appreciated, and that's love.
493
00:21:10,750 --> 00:21:13,711
So if we're closing, I'd really like to say
494
00:21:13,795 --> 00:21:17,048
that this kind of paying attention on purpose
495
00:21:17,131 --> 00:21:19,092
in the present moment non-judgmentally,
496
00:21:19,175 --> 00:21:22,428
as best we can, or mindfulness,
497
00:21:22,512 --> 00:21:25,431
is really a radical act of sanity,
498
00:21:25,515 --> 00:21:29,018
even when it's not, like, such a crazy time.
499
00:21:29,102 --> 00:21:31,563
And it's also a radical act of love.
500
00:21:31,646 --> 00:21:33,982
And, you know, love of life,
501
00:21:34,065 --> 00:21:36,234
not love of me, myself, in some small sense,
502
00:21:36,317 --> 00:21:38,570
but in the much larger sense.
503
00:21:38,653 --> 00:21:41,614
So if you're still breathing, if you're not dead yet,
504
00:21:41,698 --> 00:21:43,283
the future hasn't happened.
505
00:21:43,366 --> 00:21:45,243
And when that becomes your default mode
506
00:21:45,326 --> 00:21:47,537
and you inhabit that in a certain way
507
00:21:47,620 --> 00:21:49,956
by exercising the muscle that you were suggesting
508
00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:51,666
of mindfulness and compassion
509
00:21:51,749 --> 00:21:54,502
and open-hearted presence...
510
00:21:54,586 --> 00:21:56,796
-That's the love affair. -[Oprah] Yeah.
511
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,048
Thank you. Thank you, Jon Kabat-Zinn.
512
00:21:59,132 --> 00:22:00,300
Beautiful.
38852
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