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Hi, everybody.
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In times of trouble in the past,
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whenever I was in some kind of difficulty or crisis,
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there was always one person that I relied on, um--
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in addition to Maya Angelou,
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who's no longer here--
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is my friend Reverend Wintley Phipps.
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He has been a great spiritual adviser and teacher for me
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over the years,
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actually is the person who told me,
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long before I had a talk show in Chicago,
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that I would have a platform
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to speak to millions of people in the world.
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This is when I was a young reporter in Baltimore
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and didn't even know what he was talking about.
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So he's someone who I've relied on over the years,
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and I thought at this particular moment
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he could have not just words of wisdom for
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and comfort for me but for all of us.
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So we're joined today
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by my friend and pastor Wintley Phipps.
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[Oprah] Hello, good to see you on FaceTime.
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Oh, great to see you too.
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[Oprah] As I was sharing with the world,
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you've been one of my greatest spiritual teachers,
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and you're one of the people
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that I've gone to over the years.
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I still don't know how you knew
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when I was just a young reporter in Baltimore
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and met you backstage, and you came to me and said,
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"God has impressed me to tell you..."
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-Do you remember that moment? -[Pastor Phipps] Yes, yes.
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That you'd be speaking to millions of people.
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And I've often told you that when God showed me
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you'd be speaking to millions of people,
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I didn't think it was gonna be every day.
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[both chuckling]
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And at the time, I was just a local talk show host,
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so I was like, "Who, me?
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How am I gonna speak to millions of people?"
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So I thank you for that prophecy in my life.
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And as I just shared, um,
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you have been there for me in small crises and large ones.
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-Like, uh, 9/11. -Yes.
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And, um, you're a person who prays me up every day.
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I get these emails all the time that I'm praying--
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-That you're praying for me. -[Pastor Phipps] That's true.
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So how are you doing at this moment?
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How are you and your family, Linda, doing?
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Oh, doing fine, just like you.
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We're hunkered down. We've got everything--
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[Oprah] In Florida, in Florida?
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In Florida, yeah, where we live,
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in a little town called Vero Beach, Florida.
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And, uh, everything is still and quiet.
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You're one of the first people
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that I'm talking to about this.
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We spoke to Idris and his wife,
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but I thought you would be able to bring some perspective
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to this--to this moment.
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What do you think this is,
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aside from it's a virus-- we know that.
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But...to have our lives
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so dramatically altered, so swiftly,
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I know, and I know you know
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that there's something deeper, uh...
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that we're supposed to be getting
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or supposed to be seeing
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or--or to come to know.
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Sure.
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Well, we all have crises
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in our personal lives,
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and they come to teach us something.
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Mm-hmm. I always ask that
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every time something shows up-- what are you here to teach me?
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-Exactly. -So I'm asking that big-time
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for COVID-19.
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That's right.
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So what is this teaching our nation?
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What is this teaching our world?
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First of all, uh,
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I think it's teaching us about
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the really destructive power of fear.
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Uh, fear is
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one of the most destructive negative forces
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in the world.
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And particularly, it is most destructive
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of the most precious thing we have in this world,
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and that is relationships
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or a relationship.
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Uh...when fear
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takes over,
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whether it be in your personal life,
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whether it be in your home, in your marriage,
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or whether it be in the nation,
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it--it begins to erode our relationships.
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And so we cannot allow fear to reign.
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We cannot allow fear to get the best of us.
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We're going to have to seek a higher peace
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that will conquer fear.
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Well, I remember this moment so vividly--
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November, 2018.
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My mother was dying.
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-Mm. - And...
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I called you to sing
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"Precious Lord" to her.
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-Yes. -And you prayed for my family,
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and in that moment-- I will never forget--
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you said, "I pray for your family:
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no fear, just peace."
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Only peace.
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-Only peace. -Yeah.
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So how are we gonna have just peace in this moment
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when everything is disrupted?
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I think there is a kind of
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inner personal grieving that's going on
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that maybe many people
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haven't been able to articulate it as grief.
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But there is a sadness and a grieving
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and a "It shouldn't be this way,"
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and "Why is this happening to me, to us,
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to our families, to our country?"
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And how do you get through that with peace?
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-Yes. -It's the opposite of peace!
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[chuckles] Well,
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the first thing that comes to my mind is,
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I really do believe that nothing can happen to us
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that we can't handle.
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There is no trial, no difficulty
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that is too much for us to bear.
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We can handle this, and we will get through this.
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And so that confidence
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should help to give us peace
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that we're going to get through this.
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-Yeah. -And--and for me,
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uh, learning to appreciate
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what I call the presence of God
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is my source of greatest peace.
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And what do I mean by that?
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I-I tell people, you know, when you bow your head
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and close your eyes
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and you sense the atmosphere change around you,
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there's no greater peace than that.
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You can't get-- it is priceless peace, you know?
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-Yeah. -I don't want to take something
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from a commercial, but literally,
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this kind of peace
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that passeth all human explanation...
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-Yeah. -Is--is from outside.
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It's from-- when I say from outside,
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I mean it's God-given and God puts it within us.
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-Yeah. -That's what I firmly believe.
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So I think that this is a time
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where people of faith get their faith really tested,
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'cause it's, as you know, really easy to have it
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-in the Sunday service... -[Pastor Phipps] Yes.
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And really easy to have it when things are going well.
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So how do we maintain, in this moment,
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those of us who are people of faith and those who are not?
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Right. Well, can you imagine--
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Who could have imagined
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that we would live through a time
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when literally every single church, mosque, synagogue
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in America is shut down?
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It is completely shut down.
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And, uh, it-- it just reminds you
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that your faith has to come
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from something else than a building.
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Your faith and your peace
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has to come from something else
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than a great organ or great music.
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It needs to come from somewhere else.
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And, uh, and that is, to me,
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one of the great lessons
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that we're gonna have to learn through this,
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and that is, we cannot be dependent on
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a preacher or a teacher.
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We cannot be dependent on
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great music and great organs
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and great choirs
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to have a spiritual peace.
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We've got to learn how to have that
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in our own lives.
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For sure we know that during these times
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everything is being tested.
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I think our own humanity is being tested.
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But just within individual families,
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-the stress level is so high. -Yes.
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People say they wanna spend time with their families,
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but they didn't want all this time.
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-Right. -And so everything
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is at a higher pitch.
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Do you think that...
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we can come out of this
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better than we were?
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And how do we do that?
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Well, the first thing I'll say
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is that, yes, we can come out of this better.
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But we're going to have to allow those tests
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to bring out the best in us.
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You know, trials and tests--
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either you get better or you get bitter.
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Either you get worse or you get better.
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And, uh...
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I think it's an amazing, beautiful thing
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that we can grow our characters through this.
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We can focus not so much on ourselves
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-but on those who are in need. -Mm-hmm.
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And we can reach out, we can use the technologies
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to just connect with people.
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But I think, Oprah,
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one of the things that I wanna make the point
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that I am so struck by the fact
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that with all our military might,
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with all our technology,
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with all our wealth,
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that we...are still laid low.
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We are set back on our heels
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by something that we, number one, can't see,
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something we don't understand.
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We don't understand how this works enough to--
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to, you know, to get rid of it.
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And so it speaks to the fact
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that we are human beings
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who need to be humble.
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We're just--we're too arrogant about our...
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our wealth, our power,
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I mean, our military.
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Isn't it amazing--
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none of that can stand up
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to something as small as a virus
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you can only see under a microscope.
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And so it reminds us
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that we need each other, first of all,
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but we also need to be humble.
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I don't think... [clears throat]
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I think...
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You know, I practice gratitude on a regular basis,
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and I don't think anybody's gonna come out of this
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without a sense of being grateful
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-for the simplest things. - That's correct, yes.
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Yeah, all of the things that we used to take for granted.
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[Pastor Phipps] Exactly, exactly.
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All the little things that we took for granted.
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Uh...health.
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We get up every day,
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and we don't say, "Thank God for my health."
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So just the simplest things,
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we will see reason to give thanks for them
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during this time.
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Yeah, and I think that, you know,
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I've been practicing-- literally, with a journal,
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writing down what I was grateful for
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for, you know, decades now--
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-Yes. -And I think
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in this moment in particular,
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to be able to look at what you have,
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in spite of all the things
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that we feel have been taken away,
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to be able to focus on what is working
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instead of what is not working...
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-Right. -Will help us
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to get through it.
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I think more than ever, now,
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this practice of gratitude,
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or at least sitting with your family
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and talking about, "We still have food,
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we're sheltered--
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we're sheltered and safe together,
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we're, you know, going to be able to get through this"--
271
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being able to look at the things
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that are meaningful in your life,
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and you know, I think that there's some wonderful,
274
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meaningful changes that can take place
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in this disruption.
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The first time families are forced to be together
277
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to sit at the table to eat together.
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-Right. -When this used to be a,
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you know, a common thing in our country.
280
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Yes, and some people are remembering how to cook.
281
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[both laughing]
282
00:12:28,353 --> 00:12:30,730
Yeah. I might be one of those people.
283
00:12:30,813 --> 00:12:32,732
Yes, I am one of those people.
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[Pastor Phipps] But we have to--
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Just the little things like that
286
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we have to be thankful for.
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I noticed in our own household
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that, you know, everybody's levels are higher,
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and, um, I think,
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you know, in a lot of homes
291
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the stress is gonna take the form of violence.
292
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The stress is gonna take the form
293
00:12:55,463 --> 00:12:58,341
of people taking things out on other people.
294
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-Yeah. -Can we speak to this moment
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about how we need to
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put a check on ourselves?
297
00:13:04,931 --> 00:13:09,352
Yes, well, the most important thing for me as we grow
298
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is that we grow in character.
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What do I mean by that?
300
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I mean we have to learn how to love.
301
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We have to learn how to be kind.
302
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We have to learn how to be patient.
303
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We have to learn to be forbearing.
304
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We have to learn... [laughs] Long-suffering with each other.
305
00:13:26,828 --> 00:13:29,914
And we've got to learn how to believe
306
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in the good that we see in one another.
307
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And so, yes, in this time of stress at home,
308
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take this as an opportunity to grow
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in the most precious graces,
310
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the beauty of character, the beauty of love.
311
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You know my definition of love.
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Love is when you choose to be at your best
313
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when the other person is not at their best.
314
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Boy, will we ever have an opportunity to do that
315
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in this day and time and during this crisis.
316
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Can we be at our best
317
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when others are not at their best?
318
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Well, yes, 'cause it's easy to love everybody
319
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when things are going well.
320
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-Yes. -This is the real test.
321
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I just wanna remind everybody.
322
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The test is--of character is to do exactly what you said.
323
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[Oprah] To be able to step in this moment
324
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when things are-- where nothing's optimal.
325
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-Where nothing's optimal. -Right.
326
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You know, when my mother was passing,
327
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you prayed for our family.
328
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-[Pastor Phipps] Yes. -In this crisis,
329
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critical moment, I'd ask you to pray for our nation.
330
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What would that prayer be?
331
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Well, I would pray for
332
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four or five things.
333
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The first is for protection.
334
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We need to ask God for protection
335
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against things that we can't see.
336
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We have an economy that is on the ropes.
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A lot of people are going to be hurt by it.
338
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You know, I'm looking at our organization.
339
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We don't know what the future's--
340
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There are a lot of people, lot of organizations--
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Yes, you run the Dream Academy.
342
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-Yes. -For children whose parents
343
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-have been incarcerated. -Right, and so--
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Everybody's gonna take a hit. Everybody's gonna take a hit.
345
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Yes, and we're gonna have to go
346
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to a virtual kind of delivery of services.
347
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So, uh, the first thing I would pray for is protection.
348
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The second thing I would pray for is provision,
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provision meaning that we will have provided to us
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through miraculous ways
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what we need.
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Uh, the other thing I pray for
353
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is this beautiful presence of God
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that is a spirit that you can feel
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that surrounds us,
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that we can sense angels with us.
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Then the other thing I would pray for
358
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is the power, the emotional strength,
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to deal with this crisis.
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And then, finally,
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the most important thing
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that I can actually pray that this world will have now
363
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is peace, peace on a lot of different levels.
364
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But people will have personal peace,
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embrace peace,
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and be able to share that peace with others.
367
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Well, you're Wintley Phipps.
368
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You have to sing.
369
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[Pastor Phipps] [laughing] Oh, sure, sure.
370
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[Oprah] Just as you did for my family...
371
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-Sure. -In an hour of crisis,
372
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I think, um,
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all of us are looking for some mercy
374
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and hoping for some grace.
375
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-[Pastor Phipps] Yes. -I know you have
376
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done this song "Amazing Grace"
377
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probably countless times around the world.
378
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Never get tired of it.
379
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[Oprah] Oh, that's so good to hear,
380
00:16:49,197 --> 00:16:50,573
because when I told my team
381
00:16:50,657 --> 00:16:51,950
that I was gonna ask you to do it, they said,
382
00:16:52,033 --> 00:16:54,244
"Oh, I know he's tired of doing that song."
383
00:16:54,327 --> 00:16:57,497
But I have to tell you, um,
384
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"Amazing Grace" is my life's theme song.
385
00:17:01,876 --> 00:17:03,461
-Wow. -[Oprah] It's my anthem
386
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for my own life, it's my mantra.
387
00:17:06,714 --> 00:17:08,299
-Yes. -And I would have to say
388
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that of all the ways I've experienced it--
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flutes and harps and choirs
390
00:17:15,682 --> 00:17:17,850
and country versions
391
00:17:17,934 --> 00:17:20,728
and all the versions I've ever heard--
392
00:17:20,811 --> 00:17:22,813
yours is the best version I've ever heard.
393
00:17:22,897 --> 00:17:25,148
[Pastor Phipps] Oh, you're so kind, so kind.
394
00:17:25,233 --> 00:17:27,402
Well, I'll be more than happy to share it with you.
395
00:17:27,485 --> 00:17:29,779
[music begins] ♪ Ah, ah ♪
396
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♪ Amazing grace ♪
397
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♪ How sweet the sound ♪
398
00:17:40,999 --> 00:17:44,961
♪ That saved ♪
399
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♪ A wretch ♪
400
00:17:48,256 --> 00:17:52,051
♪ Like me ♪
401
00:17:52,135 --> 00:17:53,970
♪ Yes ♪
402
00:17:54,053 --> 00:17:57,765
♪ I once ♪
403
00:17:57,849 --> 00:18:01,978
♪ Was lost ♪
404
00:18:02,061 --> 00:18:04,397
♪ But now ♪
405
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,609
♪ I'm found ♪
406
00:18:07,692 --> 00:18:11,946
♪ Was blind ♪
407
00:18:12,030 --> 00:18:15,241
♪ But now ♪
408
00:18:15,325 --> 00:18:21,623
♪ I see ♪
409
00:18:21,706 --> 00:18:25,335
♪ Through many ♪
410
00:18:25,418 --> 00:18:28,838
♪ Dangers ♪
411
00:18:28,922 --> 00:18:33,509
♪ Toils and snares ♪
412
00:18:33,593 --> 00:18:36,638
♪ I have ♪
413
00:18:36,721 --> 00:18:41,226
♪ Already ♪
414
00:18:41,309 --> 00:18:46,940
♪ Come ♪
415
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-♪ Twas grace ♪ -[Oprah mouthing lyrics]
416
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♪ That brought me ♪
417
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♪ Safe thus far ♪
418
00:19:00,453 --> 00:19:03,540
♪ And grace ♪
419
00:19:03,623 --> 00:19:07,418
♪ Will lead ♪
420
00:19:07,502 --> 00:19:14,425
♪ Me home ♪
421
00:19:14,509 --> 00:19:17,804
-♪ And when we've ♪ -[Oprah mouthing lyrics]
422
00:19:17,887 --> 00:19:20,807
♪ Been there ♪
423
00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:24,936
♪ Ten thousand ♪
424
00:19:25,019 --> 00:19:27,021
♪ Years ♪
425
00:19:27,105 --> 00:19:31,067
♪ Bright shining ♪
426
00:19:31,150 --> 00:19:33,528
♪ As ♪
427
00:19:33,611 --> 00:19:40,535
♪ The sun ♪
428
00:19:40,618 --> 00:19:44,038
♪ We've no ♪
429
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♪ Less days ♪
430
00:19:48,251 --> 00:19:53,590
♪ To sing God's praise ♪
431
00:19:53,673 --> 00:19:56,718
♪ Than when ♪
432
00:19:56,801 --> 00:19:59,971
♪ We'd first ♪
433
00:20:00,054 --> 00:20:06,019
♪ Begun ♪
434
00:20:06,102 --> 00:20:10,106
♪ Hallelujah ♪
435
00:20:10,190 --> 00:20:13,651
♪ Halle-lujah ♪
436
00:20:13,735 --> 00:20:20,742
♪ Amen ♪
437
00:20:23,369 --> 00:20:24,746
[Oprah] Ah, that's wonderful.
438
00:20:24,829 --> 00:20:26,748
So, thank you, Pastor Wintley.
439
00:20:26,831 --> 00:20:29,584
I wanna say you still got it. You still got it.
440
00:20:29,667 --> 00:20:31,294
-[laughing] -You still got it.
441
00:20:31,377 --> 00:20:32,837
You can sing.
442
00:20:32,921 --> 00:20:34,297
Aw, you're kind.
443
00:20:34,380 --> 00:20:37,050
Thank you so much for sharing that with us,
444
00:20:37,133 --> 00:20:40,428
and thank you for offering us grace for ourselves
445
00:20:40,511 --> 00:20:43,348
and grace for our nation
446
00:20:43,431 --> 00:20:45,308
and grace for the world.
447
00:20:45,391 --> 00:20:47,268
Absolutely, and it's my joy.
448
00:20:47,352 --> 00:20:48,895
And I just wanted you to know
449
00:20:48,978 --> 00:20:52,148
that for those who may need that grace in music,
450
00:20:52,232 --> 00:20:54,108
that song they just heard,
451
00:20:54,192 --> 00:20:57,070
they can go to my website, wintleyphipps.com,
452
00:20:57,153 --> 00:20:59,364
and they can download it at no cost,
453
00:20:59,447 --> 00:21:02,742
and they can use that song as a piece of hope
454
00:21:02,825 --> 00:21:05,078
and encouragement, wherever they may be.
455
00:21:05,161 --> 00:21:06,579
Ah, that's wonderful.
456
00:21:06,663 --> 00:21:08,081
Thank you. Love to you...
457
00:21:08,164 --> 00:21:10,041
-Thank you. -Linda, and the family.
458
00:21:10,124 --> 00:21:11,501
God bless you too. Take care.
33031
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