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..on the court
tell a different story.
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You're listening
to Strictly Legal Talk,
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00:00:05,170 --> 00:00:07,030
a professional legal podcast.
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Excuse me, Judge Duggan?
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Tony. Come in.
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Listen, I know
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you're new, but everyone
around here calls me Madison.
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Yes, ma'am.
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I didn't mean
to disturb you,
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but the jury's in the box.
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Please introduce yourself
to Her Honor
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and the membersof the jury.
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My name is Debra Jansen,
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and I'm a registered nurse.
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Did you and the defendant,
Dr. Stanley Ferris,
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perform an assisted suicide?
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Yes. We did.
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And could you please
describe the circumstances?
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The patient was
a 72-year-old male.
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He was sufferingfrom
diabetes and heart disease.
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Didn't have long to live,
but obviously,
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in a tremendous amount of pain
and discomfort.
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We went to his home.
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I administered
four milligrams of ondansetron.
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It's a tablet.
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We give itto prevent nausea,
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vomiting.
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Once he'd gotten that down,
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Dr. Ferris mixed
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ten grams of secobarbital
with apple juice.
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About 30 minutes later,
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the patient stopped breathing.
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Thank you. I have nothing further,
Your Honor.
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Any questions from the defense?
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Let me ask you a question,
Ms. Jansen.
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The deceased was
suffering, wasn't he?
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Very much so. Yes.
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And he asked
to be euthanized, didn't he?
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Yes. Of course.
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Now the reason
you're here today,
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the reason we're all
here today is that
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the A.D.A. cut you
a deal in exchange for
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your testimony,
isn't that right?
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She promised
not to prosecute me
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for being a part of it
if I testified. Yes.
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Thank you.
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I have nothing further.
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Okay.
Let's take a brief recess.
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Ms. Boyd, I'd like to see youand
the witness in my chambers.
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I noticed there are federal
agents in the gallery.
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Ms. Boyd,
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when you promised
not to prosecute Ms. Jansen,
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did you reach out
to your federal counterparts
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and make sure the promise
would bind the United States
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Attorney's Office,
as well?
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No, Your Honor.
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So you made a deal
with this witness,
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but you didn't get
the Feds to sign off on it?
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Those FBI agents grab you,
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you are looking
at ten years.
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Ten years?
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So, wait. They're-they're here
to arrest me?
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I never would have agreed
to testify if I had known
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that could happen.
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You made a critical error.
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You should have dialed
in the Feds
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before you promised her
immunity.
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Okay. Wait a second.
Let's figure this out.
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Maybe if you could
let her stay in here,
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she could call her lawyer?
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All of us together...
we can work this out.
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You're not going to
work anything out.
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They are here to do a job,
and they're gonna do it.
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The second she walks
back into that courtroom,
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they are gonna take
her into custody,
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whether she's called
a lawyer or not.
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Oh, my God.
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I have kids. I...
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Why don't you return
to the courtroom?
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Give us a moment.
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All rise!
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Oh, no, no, stop.
Sorry for
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the delay, everyone.
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Agents, can you please
take your seats?
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I'd like to resume trial.
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Of course.
We'll leave
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in just a second,
but we need to speak
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to the witness
who just testified. The nurse.
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I think you may have
just missed her.
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Missed her?
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I believe she had
another matterto attend to.
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Your Honor, let me be clear.
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We came here to arrest her.
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I don't know
what to tell you.
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You understand
what this looks like?
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You called Ms. Jansen
into your chambers immediately
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after she confesses
to illegal drug distribution.
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Now she's gone?
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Again...
I don't know what to tell you.
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If you feel
you have lawful authority
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to arrest someone,
then you should do so.
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You just need
to do it in a way
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that doesn't
intimidate witnesses,
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or cause a disruption
in my courtroom.
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Understood?
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Oh, I completely understand,
Your Honor.
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But do you understand
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that in intentionally allowing
Ms. Jansen to evade arrest,
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you just committed
a federal crime?
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Need you to step down
from the bench
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and put your hands
behind your back.
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And I need you
to leave my courtroom.
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I have a trial to attend to.
Court officer?
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Seriously?
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I'm asking you one last time.
Step off the bench.
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Judge Duggan,
you're being charged
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with obstruction of justice
andaiding and abetting an escape.
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- You have the rightto remain silent...
- Save your breath.
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I know the song.
I can recite the lyrics by heart.
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Anything you say canand
will be used against you
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in a court of law.
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You have the rightto an attorney.
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If you cannot afford
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an attorney,
one will beprovided for you.
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Wow.
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A judge with half a
million Twitter followers.
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Well, I'm guessing
she's a bleeding heart?
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The kind that sends defendants
home with a slap on the wrist?
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Well, that is not exactly the
way that I would describe her.
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A defendant was convicted
of a drunk driving hit-and-run.
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She ordered him to spend a week
living at the morgue.
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Eating, sleeping.
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All of it, surrounded
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by lifeless, mangled victims
of car accidents.
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A week at the morgue?
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I think I'd rather go to prison.
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She sentenced another defendant,
a slumlord,
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to live in one
of his rat-infested properties
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for six months.
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Oh. So she's one of those.
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And apparently, it is effective.
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Judge Duggan's defendants
have the lowest recidivism rates
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in the city...
an average of 17%.
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Sounds like there's a method
to her madness.
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Oh.
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That's her.
She's in the lobby.
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I appreciate
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you seeing me
on such short notice.
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I know you're both very busy.
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Happy to be of help.
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First, I know what people
are saying about me.
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They think I have
some sort of agenda,
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both political and personal.
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Well, you were elected to the bench.
People assume
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you have your sights set
on bigger and better things.
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The prosecutor
is alleging you used
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your platform as a judge
to raise your profile,
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make a political statement.
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The prosecutor's wrong.
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This isn't about
self-promotionor assisted suicide.
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In fact, I don't even havean
opinion on assisted suicide.
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Then, why'd you do it?
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You, of all people, know
the jeopardy you're facing.
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Could cost you 25 years
in prison,
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your seat on the bench,
your license to practice.
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I know it's gonna sound like
something from a bumper sticker,
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but... I did it to protect
the sanctity of the courtroom,
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the sovereignty of judges,
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the-the business of
providing justice.
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Forgive me, but
I'm not sure I follow.
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I'm responsible for what
happensin my courtroom.
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I can't have people who would
otherwise testify worry
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that if they do, some other
arm of law is gonna be
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waiting for them
in the lobby
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because they owe
back taxes,
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or they have
an outstanding parking ticket,
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or who knows what.
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So you let her
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exit through the judge's lobby
to the private elevator,
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and slip out the back door
of the courthouse?
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00:07:27,268 --> 00:07:29,306
I gave her time
to consult with an attorney,
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so she could arrange to turn
herself in and avoid arrest.
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And did she?
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I don't know.
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I'm worried she fled.
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But that's not the point.
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And what is?
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Court has to be a safe space,
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a sacred space.
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Otherwise,
no one will participate.
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Criminals will walk free,
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the crime rate will rise.
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So will you help me?
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Will you represent me?
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00:08:05,723 --> 00:08:06,892
Please?
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00:08:09,892 --> 00:08:12,041
Well, when you put it
like that.
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*BULL (2016)*
Season 04 Episode 19
198
00:08:15,592 --> 00:08:17,305
Episode Title: " The Sovereigns"
Aired on: April 13, 2020
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00:08:17,507 --> 00:08:18,758
Synchronized by srjanapala
200
00:08:20,545 --> 00:08:23,140
Good morning. I understand
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00:08:23,225 --> 00:08:24,447
the defense has filed
a motion
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00:08:24,532 --> 00:08:25,561
to dismiss.
203
00:08:25,646 --> 00:08:26,999
That is correct, Your Honor.
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00:08:27,121 --> 00:08:28,560
Hmm. I'll hear you.
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00:08:29,073 --> 00:08:30,132
Although, I confess,
206
00:08:30,217 --> 00:08:33,538
my... clerk has already
informed meof your position.
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00:08:34,428 --> 00:08:35,319
Apparently,
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00:08:35,404 --> 00:08:38,116
your client was twittering
about it all morning.
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00:08:39,119 --> 00:08:40,780
Apparently, she's...
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00:08:40,872 --> 00:08:43,182
quite the media sensation.
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00:08:43,290 --> 00:08:45,272
It's tweeting, not twittering.
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Argue your motion, Mr. Colón.
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00:08:47,592 --> 00:08:48,988
Of course, Your Honor.
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00:08:49,299 --> 00:08:54,147
It is the defendant's contention
that pursuant to Rule 12
215
00:08:54,232 --> 00:08:56,554
of the Federal Rules
of Criminal Procedure
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00:08:56,646 --> 00:08:59,304
that the indictment
must be dismissed.
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00:08:59,469 --> 00:09:01,996
My client is being
criminally prosecuted
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00:09:02,081 --> 00:09:04,696
for doing exactly
what she was sworn to do...
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00:09:04,781 --> 00:09:07,352
Exercise judicial discretion,
220
00:09:07,437 --> 00:09:09,819
protect the integrity
of her courtroom, and
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00:09:09,904 --> 00:09:11,733
ensure that justice is served.
222
00:09:11,849 --> 00:09:13,586
Does that mean
you stipulate that your client
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00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:15,444
allowed
someone to evade arrest?
224
00:09:15,592 --> 00:09:16,625
He's admitting
his client did it.
225
00:09:16,709 --> 00:09:18,788
I am admitting
nothing of the kind.
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00:09:19,166 --> 00:09:21,345
She allowed a witness
to seek counsel.
227
00:09:21,874 --> 00:09:25,011
Mr. Olsen, does the
United States have a response?
228
00:09:25,197 --> 00:09:27,483
It's our position
that Ms. Duggan...
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00:09:27,568 --> 00:09:30,460
Excuse me.
It's Judge Duggan.
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00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,116
The woman is still a judge.
231
00:09:32,201 --> 00:09:33,250
I don't care
what they call me.
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00:09:33,334 --> 00:09:34,163
That's not the point.
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00:09:34,248 --> 00:09:35,375
We need to set
a certain tone.
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00:09:35,459 --> 00:09:37,796
Ms. Duggan is under suspension.
235
00:09:37,881 --> 00:09:40,710
Judge Duggan is
on administrative leave
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00:09:40,795 --> 00:09:42,538
until the case is resolved.
237
00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:44,200
And she should
be given
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00:09:44,285 --> 00:09:46,377
the respect that she deserves.
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00:09:46,462 --> 00:09:47,858
Gentlemen...
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00:09:48,384 --> 00:09:50,606
since neither of you hasappeared
in my courtroom before,
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00:09:50,691 --> 00:09:52,609
let me set a few ground rules
for you.
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00:09:52,694 --> 00:09:53,952
I run a tight ship.
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00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,460
No one speaks out
of turn, and if
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00:09:56,545 --> 00:09:59,072
I want you to elaborate on
anything, I will let you know.
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00:09:59,244 --> 00:10:00,335
Got it?
246
00:10:00,420 --> 00:10:02,100
- Of course, Your Honor.
- Yes, Your Honor.
247
00:10:03,114 --> 00:10:04,858
Continue please, Mr. Olsen.
248
00:10:04,997 --> 00:10:08,179
The defendant's decision
toignore a federal arrest warrant
249
00:10:08,279 --> 00:10:10,546
appears to have been
a publicity stunt
250
00:10:10,739 --> 00:10:12,897
orchestrated
by a media-savvy jurist,
251
00:10:12,982 --> 00:10:15,444
hoping to eventually seek
higher elected office.
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00:10:15,661 --> 00:10:19,468
We simply cannot allow
obstructing the work
253
00:10:19,553 --> 00:10:22,167
of federal law enforcement
to be taken lightly.
254
00:10:22,794 --> 00:10:26,351
The defendant must be held
accountable for her actions.
255
00:10:26,731 --> 00:10:28,823
I must say,
I agree with the prosecution.
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00:10:29,455 --> 00:10:32,890
I'm not going to endorse
a rogue judge's behavior.
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00:10:33,629 --> 00:10:36,210
The defendant's motion
to dismiss is denied.
258
00:10:36,374 --> 00:10:39,085
Case will be decided by a jury.
259
00:10:39,518 --> 00:10:41,915
Clearly, this is gonna
be an uphill battle.
260
00:10:42,086 --> 00:10:43,830
One more thing.
261
00:10:43,937 --> 00:10:45,140
Yes, Your Honor?
262
00:10:45,266 --> 00:10:46,866
I'm issuing a gag order.
263
00:10:47,067 --> 00:10:50,257
Respectfully, I don't believe
that's necessary, Your Honor.
264
00:10:50,342 --> 00:10:53,218
Objection noted
and overruled.
265
00:10:53,490 --> 00:10:56,374
There will be no twittering
or Facebooking
266
00:10:56,518 --> 00:10:58,077
or any other form
of commentary
267
00:10:58,162 --> 00:10:59,960
during the pendency
of this case.
268
00:11:00,045 --> 00:11:01,571
Have I made myself clear?
269
00:11:02,048 --> 00:11:03,491
Yes, Your Honor.
270
00:11:06,448 --> 00:11:07,780
Sorry, Bull.
271
00:11:08,356 --> 00:11:11,976
Try as I might, I just
could not make it go away.
272
00:11:12,368 --> 00:11:14,311
Don't beat yourself up
too much.
273
00:11:15,455 --> 00:11:17,721
I realize now
there was no way on earth
274
00:11:17,806 --> 00:11:20,116
that judge was gonna
letour judge off without a trial.
275
00:11:21,123 --> 00:11:22,984
Hmm.
276
00:11:24,019 --> 00:11:26,075
Have you read about
our client?
277
00:11:27,152 --> 00:11:28,303
She sure does get some press.
278
00:11:28,387 --> 00:11:29,864
She had this one case once,
a residential burglary.
279
00:11:29,948 --> 00:11:31,692
Victim was juggling
two jobs at once.
280
00:11:31,784 --> 00:11:34,790
Husband was dying,
and she's caring for him.
281
00:11:34,875 --> 00:11:36,856
It's a huge burden
for her to get to the court
282
00:11:36,941 --> 00:11:38,528
during normal hours.
283
00:11:38,613 --> 00:11:42,411
So Judge Duggan decided
she was gonna hold court at night.
284
00:11:43,213 --> 00:11:46,395
Every component of the system
complained.
285
00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:48,992
Courthouse didn't want
to keep the lights on.
286
00:11:49,216 --> 00:11:51,294
The jail didn't want
to transport the prisoner
287
00:11:51,379 --> 00:11:53,833
after hours.
But our client dug in
288
00:11:54,004 --> 00:11:55,411
and made it happen.
289
00:11:55,778 --> 00:11:56,853
That's nice.
290
00:11:56,938 --> 00:11:58,508
I think
it's more than nice.
291
00:11:58,719 --> 00:12:00,029
I think it's
indicative of someone
292
00:12:00,113 --> 00:12:02,423
who's committed to the idea
that justice should exist
293
00:12:02,508 --> 00:12:05,005
for everyone;
it shouldn't be compromised
294
00:12:05,105 --> 00:12:08,005
because it might be
inconvenient for the system.
295
00:12:08,090 --> 00:12:10,637
I think she genuinely believes
in these things.
296
00:12:11,031 --> 00:12:13,690
I believe she honestly thought
that the nurse's reward
297
00:12:13,775 --> 00:12:16,479
for being willing to testify
shouldn't be getting arrested
298
00:12:16,564 --> 00:12:17,893
by another agency.
299
00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:20,752
So, how do you
want to play this?
300
00:12:21,056 --> 00:12:22,666
Who would be on
your ideal jury?
301
00:12:22,751 --> 00:12:24,408
Well, here'san abstract idea.
302
00:12:24,493 --> 00:12:26,924
Sometimes you have
to skirt the law
303
00:12:27,009 --> 00:12:28,877
in order to maintain
its integrity.
304
00:12:29,008 --> 00:12:31,393
You've got that right.
Our client...
305
00:12:32,116 --> 00:12:33,768
Judge Duggan...
306
00:12:34,127 --> 00:12:36,096
she's guided
by the spirit of the law
307
00:12:36,181 --> 00:12:37,447
rather than
the letter of it.
308
00:12:37,532 --> 00:12:39,971
So we want people
who can see the big picture.
309
00:12:40,056 --> 00:12:42,846
Exactly. We need to deselect
narrow-minded thinkers
310
00:12:42,931 --> 00:12:45,573
and embrace people who are
at least willing to explore
311
00:12:45,658 --> 00:12:47,963
the possibility that,
while at first glance
312
00:12:48,048 --> 00:12:50,619
something may appear
precise and definite,
313
00:12:50,910 --> 00:12:53,198
it may be open
to interpretation,
314
00:12:53,409 --> 00:12:55,057
have a deeper meaning.
315
00:12:55,142 --> 00:12:56,233
Good morning.
316
00:12:56,454 --> 00:12:58,503
So, let me ask you
a question.
317
00:12:58,588 --> 00:13:00,768
If I say "Statue of Liberty,"
318
00:13:00,853 --> 00:13:02,597
what does that
make you think of?
319
00:13:02,682 --> 00:13:03,773
I don't know.
320
00:13:04,043 --> 00:13:05,221
Liberty?
321
00:13:05,561 --> 00:13:07,573
- Freedom?
- I don't know.
322
00:13:07,658 --> 00:13:09,576
That answer
could cut either way.
323
00:13:09,843 --> 00:13:13,023
Could be viewed
as either literal or abstract.
324
00:13:13,108 --> 00:13:14,721
Or, really, just obvious.
325
00:13:14,806 --> 00:13:18,029
Kelly Wallace. 61 years old.
Teaches physics
326
00:13:18,114 --> 00:13:19,432
at Columbia University.
327
00:13:19,517 --> 00:13:20,564
Well, physicists
328
00:13:20,649 --> 00:13:22,959
are analytical
but also very creative.
329
00:13:23,371 --> 00:13:25,502
Physics itself is practical
330
00:13:25,587 --> 00:13:28,323
but can also be very...
theoretical.
331
00:13:31,423 --> 00:13:32,514
Okay.
332
00:13:32,895 --> 00:13:34,421
Liberty, freedom.
333
00:13:34,624 --> 00:13:35,906
Anything else?
334
00:13:35,991 --> 00:13:37,062
Hope.
335
00:13:37,147 --> 00:13:38,543
Ah, hope.
336
00:13:38,628 --> 00:13:40,894
Now, there's the abstract
thinker we're looking for.
337
00:13:41,038 --> 00:13:42,188
Your Honor,
338
00:13:42,273 --> 00:13:45,015
this juror is acceptable
to the defense.
339
00:13:45,183 --> 00:13:47,452
So, miss, let me
ask you a question.
340
00:13:47,543 --> 00:13:50,335
Now, this case makes reference
to assisted suicide,
341
00:13:50,420 --> 00:13:52,599
and I'm reading
on your questionnaire here
342
00:13:52,684 --> 00:13:54,254
that you are a nun.
343
00:13:54,727 --> 00:13:57,452
Do you think that
you can be fair and impartial?
344
00:13:57,537 --> 00:13:58,695
Well...
345
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,663
suicide is a mortal sin.
346
00:14:00,781 --> 00:14:02,830
It's an act
against the will of God.
347
00:14:03,343 --> 00:14:05,195
I'm not sure
what else I can tell you.
348
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:06,726
Thank you for your candor.
349
00:14:07,303 --> 00:14:08,468
Your Honor, we move
350
00:14:08,553 --> 00:14:11,249
to exclude this
juror for cause.
351
00:14:11,469 --> 00:14:13,031
Request is denied.
352
00:14:13,706 --> 00:14:15,671
Excuse me?
Request is denied.
353
00:14:15,756 --> 00:14:16,812
There is no cause.
354
00:14:16,897 --> 00:14:18,032
That's absurd.
355
00:14:18,371 --> 00:14:19,723
This witness
just answered
356
00:14:19,808 --> 00:14:22,609
she considers suicide...
Any kind of suicide...
357
00:14:22,694 --> 00:14:23,873
A mortal sin.
358
00:14:23,958 --> 00:14:25,397
I'd advise you
to sit down.
359
00:14:25,482 --> 00:14:27,196
Counsel, want to take control
of your client?
360
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:28,577
What more cause do you need?
361
00:14:28,662 --> 00:14:30,351
Take your seat.
Let Benny do his job.
362
00:14:30,436 --> 00:14:33,640
But this case isn't
about suicide, it's about you.
363
00:14:33,725 --> 00:14:36,202
Letting someone out the back
door to avoid being arrested.
364
00:14:36,287 --> 00:14:39,117
That someone who just assisted
in an act of suicide.
365
00:14:39,482 --> 00:14:41,313
How can you not see
the prejudicial effect
366
00:14:41,398 --> 00:14:42,493
that that might have
on this juror?
367
00:14:42,577 --> 00:14:44,421
- Did you not hear me?
- Of course I did.
368
00:14:44,506 --> 00:14:46,070
The questions is,
did you hear me?
369
00:14:46,155 --> 00:14:47,007
Please let us handle this.
370
00:14:47,092 --> 00:14:48,531
This is my final warning.
371
00:14:48,616 --> 00:14:50,226
Take your seat.
372
00:14:50,457 --> 00:14:51,382
Your lawyer
373
00:14:51,467 --> 00:14:53,734
may exercise one of his
six preemptory challenges
374
00:14:53,819 --> 00:14:55,218
on this jury if he so chooses.
375
00:14:55,303 --> 00:14:57,221
That's not the point.
We shouldn't have to use
376
00:14:57,306 --> 00:14:58,919
one of our six
preemptory challenges
377
00:14:59,004 --> 00:15:00,661
when this juroris clearly biased.
378
00:15:00,746 --> 00:15:02,794
This is the last time
I'm gonna say it.
379
00:15:02,949 --> 00:15:05,564
Take your seat
and shut your mouth.
380
00:15:07,545 --> 00:15:08,592
Fine.
381
00:15:09,846 --> 00:15:11,085
I will take my seat
382
00:15:11,322 --> 00:15:14,460
and I will shut my mouth,
but I promise you,
383
00:15:14,545 --> 00:15:16,562
tomorrow morning
I am filing charges
384
00:15:16,647 --> 00:15:18,054
with the
Judicial Board of Review,
385
00:15:18,139 --> 00:15:20,374
and citing your...
your infantile behavior
386
00:15:20,459 --> 00:15:21,859
and your willful disregard
387
00:15:21,944 --> 00:15:23,819
for my rights!
388
00:15:24,163 --> 00:15:25,254
You were warned.
389
00:15:25,346 --> 00:15:27,202
I'm finding you
in contempt of court.
390
00:15:27,662 --> 00:15:29,780
Marshal,
take her into custody.
391
00:16:07,894 --> 00:16:09,652
Thank you for bailing me out.
392
00:16:11,191 --> 00:16:13,331
I know I should have
exercised better judgment
393
00:16:13,416 --> 00:16:15,183
with regards
to my behavior,
394
00:16:15,388 --> 00:16:16,956
but I hope you can
both appreciate
395
00:16:17,041 --> 00:16:19,347
that I am right
on the issues,
396
00:16:19,432 --> 00:16:20,848
on the principles
involved.
397
00:16:20,933 --> 00:16:22,324
I want desperately to believe
398
00:16:22,409 --> 00:16:23,754
that you're not really
that naive.
399
00:16:23,839 --> 00:16:25,879
Huh, wow,
Dr. Bull.
400
00:16:25,964 --> 00:16:27,067
Tell me
what you really think.
401
00:16:27,151 --> 00:16:28,800
Do you realize
what you've done?
402
00:16:29,331 --> 00:16:31,668
The self-inflicted damage
that you've caused
403
00:16:31,753 --> 00:16:33,137
by pulling that stunt?
404
00:16:33,222 --> 00:16:34,496
You want to go to prison?
405
00:16:34,581 --> 00:16:36,176
No. Of course not.
406
00:16:36,261 --> 00:16:38,473
You have to understand
it didn't help your cause
407
00:16:38,558 --> 00:16:41,106
for the jury to see you
ushered out of the courtroom
408
00:16:41,191 --> 00:16:42,647
in handcuffs like that.
409
00:16:43,191 --> 00:16:46,120
That alone is
a huge setback for us.
410
00:16:46,948 --> 00:16:49,434
I don't disagree.
But they also saw
411
00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:51,918
a person stand up for herself
and really...
412
00:16:52,002 --> 00:16:53,267
Oh, come on. Look,
413
00:16:53,636 --> 00:16:55,457
I respect that you're a person
of principle.
414
00:16:55,542 --> 00:16:57,010
That's why I took you on
as a client.
415
00:16:57,094 --> 00:16:58,261
But...
416
00:16:58,489 --> 00:17:00,925
You completely destroyed
our narrative in there.
417
00:17:01,503 --> 00:17:03,098
We are trying
to convince the jury
418
00:17:03,183 --> 00:17:05,902
that you let a woman
escape federal custody
419
00:17:06,072 --> 00:17:08,105
because you believe
in the sanctity
420
00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:09,107
of the courtroom.
421
00:17:09,192 --> 00:17:11,245
Well, insulting
a federal judge
422
00:17:11,330 --> 00:17:12,720
doesn't exactly demonstrate
423
00:17:12,805 --> 00:17:14,652
a belief in the sanctity
of the courtroom.
424
00:17:16,628 --> 00:17:17,995
You get that, right?
425
00:17:20,639 --> 00:17:22,112
This is me.
426
00:17:25,433 --> 00:17:26,526
Okay.
427
00:17:26,611 --> 00:17:28,145
Tomorrow, let's try
something different.
428
00:17:28,229 --> 00:17:30,324
You play the part
of the defendant,
429
00:17:30,409 --> 00:17:31,810
we'll play the part
of your legal team,
430
00:17:31,894 --> 00:17:33,878
and we'll let the judge
be the judge.
431
00:17:34,425 --> 00:17:35,744
What do you say?
432
00:17:36,706 --> 00:17:38,644
I'll certainly try my best.
433
00:17:41,698 --> 00:17:42,853
That would be appreciated.
434
00:17:44,761 --> 00:17:46,277
Agent Mercier,
435
00:17:46,362 --> 00:17:48,060
could you describe what
happened when you went
436
00:17:48,144 --> 00:17:50,012
into the defendant's
courtroom to effect
437
00:17:50,097 --> 00:17:52,021
- a lawful arrest?
- Well, the defendant
438
00:17:52,105 --> 00:17:54,707
came out of her chambers
and essentially admitted
439
00:17:54,792 --> 00:17:57,159
that she purposely aided
in the nurse's escape.
440
00:17:57,581 --> 00:17:58,730
Wow.
441
00:17:59,073 --> 00:18:00,691
And what were the
repercussions of that?
442
00:18:00,776 --> 00:18:03,472
Well, the most significant
was we lost our suspect.
443
00:18:04,073 --> 00:18:05,589
The nurse, Ms. Jansen.
444
00:18:05,674 --> 00:18:07,285
And do we have any idea
where she is right now?
445
00:18:07,369 --> 00:18:09,683
We're not certain, but we
believe she fled to Canada.
446
00:18:10,011 --> 00:18:13,782
And I assume the Bureau has
made attempts to locate her?
447
00:18:13,995 --> 00:18:15,392
Several.
448
00:18:15,612 --> 00:18:16,980
I have nothing further.
449
00:18:18,589 --> 00:18:19,874
How red is it?
450
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:23,152
It is as red as red can be.
451
00:18:25,706 --> 00:18:26,862
Agent Mercier,
452
00:18:26,947 --> 00:18:29,176
thank you
for testifying here today.
453
00:18:29,261 --> 00:18:30,331
Now...
454
00:18:31,456 --> 00:18:33,621
would it be fair to say
that you,
455
00:18:33,706 --> 00:18:35,804
a federal agent,
456
00:18:35,888 --> 00:18:37,731
entered my client's courtroom,
457
00:18:37,816 --> 00:18:39,460
a New York State courtroom,
458
00:18:39,544 --> 00:18:42,115
for the sole purpose
of arresting a witness?
459
00:18:42,199 --> 00:18:44,769
Yes. We've made no secret
about that fact.
460
00:18:44,853 --> 00:18:46,800
That's precisely what
we were there to do.
461
00:18:46,885 --> 00:18:49,687
And you don't thinkthere's
anything amiss in that?
462
00:18:49,771 --> 00:18:52,301
Course not. As you well know,
463
00:18:52,386 --> 00:18:55,245
assisting in an act of suicide
is a federal crime.
464
00:18:55,425 --> 00:18:58,113
Once we heard that the nurse
was going to testify,
465
00:18:58,198 --> 00:19:00,350
once we realized that she was
probably going to confess
466
00:19:00,434 --> 00:19:03,005
on the stand,
we felt we had no choice
467
00:19:03,103 --> 00:19:04,823
but to be there
and take her into custody.
468
00:19:04,908 --> 00:19:07,520
Really?
Agent Mercier, are you familiar
469
00:19:07,605 --> 00:19:09,917
with the Tenth Amendment
to the Constitution?
470
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:12,275
"The powers
471
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,190
"not delegated
to the United States
472
00:19:14,274 --> 00:19:15,670
"by the Constitution,
473
00:19:15,754 --> 00:19:18,495
"nor prohibited by it
to the States,
474
00:19:18,612 --> 00:19:21,806
"are reserved
to the States respectively,
475
00:19:22,292 --> 00:19:23,510
or to the people."
476
00:19:24,675 --> 00:19:26,159
You know what that means?
477
00:19:29,233 --> 00:19:34,105
Well, it means
that federal law enforcement
478
00:19:34,417 --> 00:19:37,170
are not allowed
to recklessly interfere
479
00:19:37,261 --> 00:19:38,933
with the functions
of state court.
480
00:19:39,018 --> 00:19:42,167
Objection.
Agent Mercier isn't on trial.
481
00:19:42,346 --> 00:19:43,828
And it isn't Mr. Colón's job
482
00:19:43,912 --> 00:19:45,386
to lecture us
on the Constitution.
483
00:19:45,471 --> 00:19:48,085
I was getting to the question,
Your Honor.
484
00:19:48,170 --> 00:19:50,714
- Then ask it, please.
- Yes, sir.
485
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:57,153
Now, you are a federal law
enforcement agent, sir.
486
00:19:57,487 --> 00:19:59,089
Sworn to uphold
the Constitution.
487
00:19:59,174 --> 00:20:01,758
Now, wouldn't you agree
that state court judges
488
00:20:01,843 --> 00:20:04,777
have a solemn duty
to protect witnesses
489
00:20:04,862 --> 00:20:06,155
and victims in their courtrooms?
490
00:20:06,433 --> 00:20:09,042
A duty guaranteed
by the Tenth Amendment?
491
00:20:09,246 --> 00:20:11,333
Well, I'm not
a constitutional scholar, sir,
492
00:20:11,418 --> 00:20:13,753
but yes,
that sounds about right.
493
00:20:13,869 --> 00:20:16,308
And would it surprise you
to know that the trial
494
00:20:16,393 --> 00:20:19,530
that you interrupted
was declared a mistrial
495
00:20:19,831 --> 00:20:21,866
and cost the taxpayers
a lot of money?
496
00:20:22,081 --> 00:20:23,477
No, I didn't know that.
497
00:20:23,683 --> 00:20:26,254
Sounds to me like you're
the onewho violated the law
498
00:20:26,558 --> 00:20:28,183
and obstructed justice.
499
00:20:28,268 --> 00:20:29,277
Maybe
you're the one,
500
00:20:29,362 --> 00:20:31,316
who should be
sitting at the defense table,
501
00:20:31,401 --> 00:20:33,598
and Judge Duggan should be
the key witness against you.
502
00:20:33,683 --> 00:20:34,909
Not the other way around.
503
00:20:34,994 --> 00:20:36,855
No further questions,
Your Honor.
504
00:20:40,089 --> 00:20:41,621
Thank you, Mr. Colón.
505
00:20:41,706 --> 00:20:42,887
Nice job, sir.
506
00:20:43,050 --> 00:20:45,107
All part of the service.
507
00:20:45,456 --> 00:20:46,804
Well, this seems good a place
508
00:20:46,888 --> 00:20:49,144
as any to stop for lunch, so...
509
00:20:49,325 --> 00:20:51,355
court will resume in an hour.
510
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:53,425
All right.
511
00:21:00,292 --> 00:21:02,612
It's, uh, an updated
witness list.
512
00:21:03,034 --> 00:21:04,691
Debra Jansen?
The nurse?
513
00:21:04,776 --> 00:21:06,058
They found her?
514
00:21:06,354 --> 00:21:09,391
I'm sensing this is not good
for the home team.
515
00:21:09,831 --> 00:21:11,002
Nurse Jansen,
516
00:21:11,323 --> 00:21:13,918
please tell us how you came
to be a fugitive from justice.
517
00:21:14,183 --> 00:21:17,362
Well, I was
in Judge Duggan's courtroom
518
00:21:17,448 --> 00:21:18,527
testifying,
519
00:21:18,612 --> 00:21:20,495
and I guess
these two FBI agents
520
00:21:20,580 --> 00:21:21,598
came in.
521
00:21:21,683 --> 00:21:23,769
I didn't really notice
at the time.
522
00:21:24,099 --> 00:21:26,082
But when I was done
testifying,
523
00:21:26,167 --> 00:21:28,150
the judge had me come back
to her office.
524
00:21:28,573 --> 00:21:30,413
That's when she told me
she was pretty sure
525
00:21:30,497 --> 00:21:32,362
they were there to arrest me.
526
00:21:33,252 --> 00:21:35,808
Anyway, I asked the judge.
527
00:21:35,994 --> 00:21:37,495
I told her
I wanted to call a lawyer,
528
00:21:37,580 --> 00:21:38,681
get some help.
529
00:21:38,766 --> 00:21:39,944
And did you do that?
530
00:21:40,370 --> 00:21:41,946
The judge wouldn't let me.
531
00:21:42,030 --> 00:21:44,145
She said there was no time
for phone calls.
532
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:47,410
So it was the defendant's idea
533
00:21:47,495 --> 00:21:48,792
for you to flee?
534
00:21:49,378 --> 00:21:50,644
Yes.
535
00:21:50,882 --> 00:21:53,801
She told me
I should just run,
536
00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:55,206
as far as I could,
537
00:21:55,291 --> 00:21:56,753
as fast as I could.
538
00:21:58,785 --> 00:22:00,156
That is not what happened.
539
00:22:00,241 --> 00:22:01,158
Lower your voice.
540
00:22:01,243 --> 00:22:02,243
So,
541
00:22:02,398 --> 00:22:03,472
that's what you did?
542
00:22:03,557 --> 00:22:05,127
She was the judge.
543
00:22:05,730 --> 00:22:07,316
I did what I was told.
544
00:22:07,995 --> 00:22:09,235
Grabbed my kids,
545
00:22:09,319 --> 00:22:11,487
jumped in my car
and drove to Quebec.
546
00:22:12,655 --> 00:22:14,222
Your witness.
547
00:22:17,615 --> 00:22:19,543
So, evading the law...
548
00:22:19,628 --> 00:22:22,509
That's something you
decided to do on your own.
549
00:22:22,691 --> 00:22:24,323
She told me to run,
550
00:22:24,408 --> 00:22:25,412
and I did.
551
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:26,735
"Run"?
552
00:22:26,945 --> 00:22:28,819
You sure that's
the word she used?
553
00:22:29,089 --> 00:22:30,604
I'm sure.Hmm.
554
00:22:30,792 --> 00:22:32,519
You sure she didn't say,
555
00:22:32,769 --> 00:22:35,173
"Go to some place safe
and call a lawyer
556
00:22:35,257 --> 00:22:36,636
"and come up with a plan,
557
00:22:36,721 --> 00:22:38,219
"so that when federal agents do
558
00:22:38,304 --> 00:22:39,898
eventually
come and arrest you,
559
00:22:40,316 --> 00:22:42,268
you've got your ducks in a row"?
560
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,886
- She told me to run.
- All right.
561
00:22:44,971 --> 00:22:46,410
Let's review.
562
00:22:46,749 --> 00:22:51,362
So, you escaped prosecution
in the assisted suicide case
563
00:22:51,447 --> 00:22:53,152
by flipping on the doctor.
564
00:22:53,237 --> 00:22:54,152
Do I have that right?
565
00:22:54,237 --> 00:22:56,112
I was subpoenaed
to testify against him.
566
00:22:56,197 --> 00:22:57,198
So I did.
567
00:22:57,283 --> 00:23:00,120
And now you're trying
to curry favor with the Feds
568
00:23:00,205 --> 00:23:02,428
by turning on the one person
who was trying to help you.
569
00:23:02,513 --> 00:23:04,245
I'm just trying
to tell the truth.
570
00:23:04,330 --> 00:23:07,206
Oh, no. You are trying
to save yourself from prison.
571
00:23:07,291 --> 00:23:08,317
Objection.
572
00:23:08,402 --> 00:23:11,089
Sustained. Ask a question.
573
00:23:11,495 --> 00:23:13,646
You cut a deal with the Feds,
didn't you?
574
00:23:14,058 --> 00:23:16,449
I entered into a plea agreement
with the prosecutor.
575
00:23:16,534 --> 00:23:17,737
Right,
right.
576
00:23:17,822 --> 00:23:19,128
And part of that agreement
577
00:23:19,213 --> 00:23:20,826
required for you to testify
578
00:23:20,911 --> 00:23:23,220
against the one person
who was looking out
579
00:23:23,305 --> 00:23:25,382
for you,
the one person
580
00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:27,408
who advised you
to get a lawyer first
581
00:23:27,538 --> 00:23:29,078
and then surrender
to authorities,
582
00:23:29,163 --> 00:23:32,257
the one person
whose only intent in all this
583
00:23:32,342 --> 00:23:33,343
was to help you.
584
00:23:33,428 --> 00:23:34,367
I don't know
585
00:23:34,452 --> 00:23:35,673
what her intent was.
586
00:23:36,057 --> 00:23:37,758
But she sure seemed happy
587
00:23:37,842 --> 00:23:39,554
to be sticking it
to the FBI agents.
588
00:23:39,639 --> 00:23:41,062
Oh, come on.
589
00:23:41,147 --> 00:23:42,281
You don't know that.
590
00:23:42,366 --> 00:23:43,328
Sure, I do.
591
00:23:43,413 --> 00:23:44,765
When the A.D.A. left
592
00:23:44,849 --> 00:23:46,202
and I was alone
with Judge Duggan,
593
00:23:46,287 --> 00:23:48,726
she called the Feds "feebs."
594
00:23:49,185 --> 00:23:51,187
She said,"Those feebs,
595
00:23:51,272 --> 00:23:53,494
"they think they're God,
but they're not.
596
00:23:53,901 --> 00:23:56,632
In this courtroom, I'm God."
597
00:23:58,971 --> 00:24:00,077
She's lying.
598
00:24:00,168 --> 00:24:01,434
I would never saysuch a thing.
599
00:24:01,518 --> 00:24:02,609
I believe you.
600
00:24:02,693 --> 00:24:05,226
Unfortunately, my
vote doesn't count.
601
00:24:07,672 --> 00:24:11,211
Judge Duggan, since
the start of this trial,
602
00:24:11,296 --> 00:24:12,942
people have been sitting in
the chair you're sitting in
603
00:24:13,026 --> 00:24:18,418
right now and they've painteda
pretty damning picture of you.
604
00:24:18,503 --> 00:24:20,276
So here's my question.
605
00:24:21,393 --> 00:24:24,104
Is any of what
Nurse Jansen said true?
606
00:24:24,393 --> 00:24:26,776
Did you intentionally
obstruct justice?
607
00:24:26,861 --> 00:24:29,780
Were you flexing your
power and your muscle
608
00:24:29,865 --> 00:24:31,348
and sending a message?
609
00:24:31,433 --> 00:24:34,352
Or is Ms. Jansen simply lying?
610
00:24:34,927 --> 00:24:38,573
Well, whether or not someone is
lying is for the jury to decide.
611
00:24:38,681 --> 00:24:40,393
But I remember it
quite differently.
612
00:24:40,697 --> 00:24:44,138
I admit I let Ms. Jansen leave
out the back door.
613
00:24:44,933 --> 00:24:47,284
But I promise you
it wasn't out of spite
614
00:24:47,369 --> 00:24:49,917
or because I have
some sort of god complex.
615
00:24:50,002 --> 00:24:53,159
Well, then help us
understand why you did it.
616
00:24:53,626 --> 00:24:56,745
I did it to protectthe
integrity of the process.
617
00:24:57,922 --> 00:25:00,143
You have to understand...
this is it for me.
618
00:25:00,649 --> 00:25:02,610
The law is my life.
619
00:25:02,982 --> 00:25:05,729
I eat, sleep and breathe it.
620
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,105
I'm not married.
621
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:08,635
I don't have any children.
622
00:25:09,010 --> 00:25:10,721
I don't even have any hobbies.
623
00:25:11,580 --> 00:25:13,174
The courtroom is my home.
624
00:25:13,862 --> 00:25:16,674
The people who pass
through here are my guests.
625
00:25:17,072 --> 00:25:19,448
And the people who work there
are my family.
626
00:25:20,541 --> 00:25:21,753
From the timel was a child,
627
00:25:21,838 --> 00:25:23,669
all I ever wanted
to be was a judge.
628
00:25:23,819 --> 00:25:24,971
Other kids had
629
00:25:25,056 --> 00:25:28,323
astronauts
or sports stars as their heroes.
630
00:25:28,815 --> 00:25:31,565
I had a big poster of
Justice Thurgood Marshall
631
00:25:31,686 --> 00:25:33,256
- above my bed.
- Mm.
632
00:25:34,198 --> 00:25:36,112
I believe
in the justice system.
633
00:25:36,550 --> 00:25:38,642
I revere it.
634
00:25:39,017 --> 00:25:41,135
But I also know
how fragile it is.
635
00:25:41,469 --> 00:25:44,237
You tell people they have
something to fear by testifying,
636
00:25:44,377 --> 00:25:46,620
they will stop testifying.
637
00:25:47,478 --> 00:25:50,054
And if that happens,
in my opinion,
638
00:25:50,275 --> 00:25:52,620
that is the end
of a civilized society.
639
00:25:56,292 --> 00:25:58,281
Marissa, please tell me
this is making
640
00:25:58,365 --> 00:25:59,385
a difference.
641
00:25:59,470 --> 00:26:01,729
Well, we just got
our first green.
642
00:26:03,174 --> 00:26:04,151
So,
643
00:26:04,236 --> 00:26:05,762
just to be clear,
644
00:26:06,192 --> 00:26:09,003
why exactly did you allow
Nurse Jansen
645
00:26:09,166 --> 00:26:11,818
to leave via the back door
in the courthouse
646
00:26:11,903 --> 00:26:14,893
when you knew federal agents
were waiting in your courtroom
647
00:26:14,978 --> 00:26:16,151
to arrest her?
648
00:26:16,251 --> 00:26:17,734
So she could get an attorney.
649
00:26:17,991 --> 00:26:19,909
So she could have someoneon
her side
650
00:26:19,994 --> 00:26:22,347
when she surrendered
to the authorities.
651
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:25,568
She came into my courtroom
thinking she was safe.
652
00:26:25,845 --> 00:26:29,268
She made a deal with the
A.D.A.that she would testify
653
00:26:29,353 --> 00:26:32,664
in return for her promise
that she wouldn't be prosecuted.
654
00:26:33,229 --> 00:26:35,318
Unfortunately,
the district attorney failed
655
00:26:35,402 --> 00:26:36,504
to run the deal by the Feds,
656
00:26:36,588 --> 00:26:39,175
so they felt
they were under no obligation
657
00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:40,510
to abide by it.
658
00:26:40,603 --> 00:26:42,268
And you
felt that was unfair?
659
00:26:42,353 --> 00:26:43,662
I felt
the state prosecutor
660
00:26:43,747 --> 00:26:46,057
put her and me
in a terrible position.
661
00:26:46,815 --> 00:26:49,158
When she found out
the Feds were there to arrest her,
662
00:26:49,249 --> 00:26:50,533
she was crying.
663
00:26:50,765 --> 00:26:52,284
She was worried
about her children.
664
00:26:52,567 --> 00:26:55,557
So you never instructed
her to flee the country?
665
00:26:55,948 --> 00:26:58,768
That would make mean
accessory to a federal crime.
666
00:26:59,995 --> 00:27:02,440
I took an oath
to uphold the law,
667
00:27:02,844 --> 00:27:04,066
not violate it.
668
00:27:04,213 --> 00:27:05,315
Thank you.
669
00:27:05,934 --> 00:27:08,023
That's all I have,
Your Honor.
670
00:27:16,237 --> 00:27:19,143
So, let me be certain
that I understand.
671
00:27:20,142 --> 00:27:23,628
You just testified that you're
totally committed to the law,
672
00:27:23,713 --> 00:27:25,806
that your sole interest,
673
00:27:25,891 --> 00:27:27,073
your only interest,
674
00:27:27,158 --> 00:27:29,815
is the pursuit of justice.
675
00:27:30,058 --> 00:27:31,106
Is that correct?
676
00:27:31,197 --> 00:27:33,323
Yes. So, in a sense,
677
00:27:33,432 --> 00:27:35,065
the work that you do...
678
00:27:35,150 --> 00:27:37,151
Tweeting out your messages
about the court system,
679
00:27:37,236 --> 00:27:39,854
advising a witness in your
courtroom to seek counsel
680
00:27:39,939 --> 00:27:41,291
before she can be arrested...
681
00:27:41,376 --> 00:27:43,773
That's all... altruistic?
682
00:27:43,866 --> 00:27:46,088
I mean, there's nothing
in it for you.
683
00:27:46,203 --> 00:27:48,765
Y-You're not seeking
notoriety or fame,
684
00:27:48,850 --> 00:27:50,246
- are you?
- No.
685
00:27:50,535 --> 00:27:52,848
If fame or notoriety
is a by-product
686
00:27:52,933 --> 00:27:55,565
of getting people excited
about the judicial system,
687
00:27:55,650 --> 00:27:56,676
then so be it.
688
00:27:56,761 --> 00:27:58,987
But, no, it is not my goal.
689
00:27:59,072 --> 00:28:01,253
You're just a
humble, honest...
690
00:28:02,302 --> 00:28:04,557
down-to-earth
state court judge.
691
00:28:04,649 --> 00:28:06,745
I like to think so.
Yes.
692
00:28:06,911 --> 00:28:09,347
Well, thank you
for your honesty.
693
00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:12,120
Nothing further.
694
00:28:16,668 --> 00:28:17,948
What in the world
was that about?
695
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,120
Well, whatever it was,
it didn't work.
696
00:28:20,212 --> 00:28:22,844
It just keeps getting greener
and greener
697
00:28:22,929 --> 00:28:24,097
in here.
698
00:28:24,594 --> 00:28:26,339
Anything else from either side?
699
00:28:26,424 --> 00:28:28,893
Um, not at this time,
Your Honor.
700
00:28:28,978 --> 00:28:30,243
The defense rests.
701
00:28:30,328 --> 00:28:31,784
Your Honor,
if the defense
702
00:28:31,869 --> 00:28:33,035
is done with their presentation,
703
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,565
the government would like
to call a rebuttal witness.
704
00:28:35,650 --> 00:28:37,206
Of course you would.
705
00:28:37,341 --> 00:28:39,307
Please tell us
your name and occupation.
706
00:28:39,392 --> 00:28:40,483
My name is Jake Monroe.
707
00:28:40,568 --> 00:28:42,270
I'm in the
entertainment business.
708
00:28:42,355 --> 00:28:44,901
Uh, artist representative.
709
00:28:45,347 --> 00:28:46,506
Talent agent.
710
00:28:46,607 --> 00:28:48,979
So you represent TV stars?
Actors and actresses?
711
00:28:49,064 --> 00:28:50,551
Well, the vast majority
of my business is
712
00:28:50,635 --> 00:28:53,269
in what's called nonfiction
television.
713
00:28:53,354 --> 00:28:56,111
Uh, reality television. I see.
714
00:28:56,603 --> 00:28:58,745
And are you familiar
with the defendant?
715
00:28:58,830 --> 00:29:00,893
Uh, I am. She and I actually had
716
00:29:00,978 --> 00:29:02,809
a number of discussions
about the possibility
717
00:29:02,894 --> 00:29:05,214
of her getting into television.
718
00:29:06,947 --> 00:29:08,597
Is this true?
You have an agent?
719
00:29:08,682 --> 00:29:09,733
How did we not know this?
720
00:29:09,817 --> 00:29:11,474
No. I've never had an agent.
721
00:29:11,558 --> 00:29:14,386
He invited me to lunch.Twice.
That's it.
722
00:29:14,471 --> 00:29:16,245
I'm confused.
Why would
723
00:29:16,330 --> 00:29:17,940
a state judge need
a talent agent?
724
00:29:18,025 --> 00:29:20,027
She was elected to office.
She has a job.
725
00:29:20,112 --> 00:29:24,095
Well, courtroom shows are
a very lucrative, uh, staple
726
00:29:24,179 --> 00:29:25,690
of daytime television.
727
00:29:25,847 --> 00:29:28,098
I read about Judge Duggan
in the papers,
728
00:29:28,183 --> 00:29:30,823
uh, started to follow
her Twitter account.
729
00:29:30,958 --> 00:29:32,597
And I've genuinely
come to believe
730
00:29:32,682 --> 00:29:34,082
that she could be
the next Judge Judy.
731
00:29:34,166 --> 00:29:35,910
Excuse me, Judge who?
732
00:29:35,995 --> 00:29:38,550
Judge Judy.
Very successful.
733
00:29:38,995 --> 00:29:41,066
But she's starting to age
out of the job.
734
00:29:41,151 --> 00:29:43,542
It's hard not to imagine that
someone like Judge Duggan,
735
00:29:43,627 --> 00:29:46,720
or someone like her,
is a potential successor.
736
00:29:47,104 --> 00:29:49,667
So you think she could be
a television judge?
737
00:29:49,767 --> 00:29:50,858
I do.
738
00:29:50,943 --> 00:29:53,732
I mean, look at her.
She's beautiful,
739
00:29:53,817 --> 00:29:55,112
charismatic.
740
00:29:55,197 --> 00:29:58,377
She's positioned herself well.
She already has a following.
741
00:29:58,461 --> 00:30:01,129
You're talking about
all the-the tweeting,
742
00:30:01,214 --> 00:30:03,237
posting, social media.
743
00:30:03,322 --> 00:30:04,631
Objection, Your Honor.
744
00:30:04,716 --> 00:30:05,793
Counsel is leading
the witness.
745
00:30:05,877 --> 00:30:08,198
- Sustained.
- That's fine.
746
00:30:08,283 --> 00:30:10,114
I have nothing further,
Your Honor.
747
00:30:13,916 --> 00:30:16,315
Did Taylor see anything
about this on social media?
748
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,940
Taylor looked through everypost,
tweet, blog and hashtag...
749
00:30:19,025 --> 00:30:20,745
With a fine-tooth comb,
and there's nothing
750
00:30:20,830 --> 00:30:23,339
about an agent,
nothing about television.
751
00:30:25,101 --> 00:30:26,801
Did you actually sign
any kind of agreement
752
00:30:26,886 --> 00:30:28,419
- with this guy?
- No.
753
00:30:28,504 --> 00:30:29,856
Of course not.
754
00:30:29,940 --> 00:30:31,909
He told me he wanted
to make me a star.
755
00:30:31,994 --> 00:30:34,643
I laughed and picked his brain
about social media.
756
00:30:34,728 --> 00:30:36,384
Are you ready to
cross-examine, Counselor?
757
00:30:36,469 --> 00:30:39,128
Yes, I am, Your Honor.
758
00:30:40,362 --> 00:30:41,550
Mr. Monroe,
759
00:30:41,635 --> 00:30:42,857
yes or no question:
760
00:30:42,942 --> 00:30:45,078
did my client sign
a contract with you?
761
00:30:45,163 --> 00:30:47,037
Uh, on paper, no.
762
00:30:47,349 --> 00:30:48,919
But we had an understanding,
763
00:30:49,003 --> 00:30:50,660
which is a fairly typical way
of doing things
764
00:30:50,744 --> 00:30:51,835
in the entertainment business.
765
00:30:51,919 --> 00:30:53,854
And when the two of you
first met,
766
00:30:54,010 --> 00:30:55,275
who initiated the meeting?
767
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:56,320
Did she call you,
768
00:30:56,405 --> 00:30:57,452
or did you call her?
769
00:30:57,537 --> 00:30:59,503
Uh, I initiated.
I called her.
770
00:30:59,588 --> 00:31:02,681
So this was all about
an idea you had.
771
00:31:02,852 --> 00:31:05,423
Point of fact, my client
never authorized you
772
00:31:05,508 --> 00:31:08,354
to seek any television
opportunities on her behalf.
773
00:31:08,485 --> 00:31:09,823
Isn't that true?
774
00:31:10,074 --> 00:31:11,815
No, I don't believe it is.
775
00:31:11,972 --> 00:31:14,161
Look, I do this for a living.
776
00:31:14,245 --> 00:31:16,120
Yes, she was playing
hard to get.
777
00:31:16,204 --> 00:31:18,737
She never actually said,
"Go do this for me."
778
00:31:19,424 --> 00:31:21,261
But we had lunch twice.
779
00:31:21,862 --> 00:31:23,475
And you don't come back
a second time
780
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:26,050
unless you heard something
you liked the first time.
781
00:31:28,506 --> 00:31:32,479
We have lost all
but one of our greens.
782
00:31:34,651 --> 00:31:35,878
Come on, Benny.
783
00:31:35,963 --> 00:31:37,253
You admit...
784
00:31:38,966 --> 00:31:42,625
my client has no agreement
in place with you?
785
00:31:42,940 --> 00:31:44,714
Verbal or written.
Yes or no?
786
00:31:44,846 --> 00:31:47,585
- No, we have no agreement.
- And the fact is,
787
00:31:47,670 --> 00:31:51,151
while you may be looking for
a television opportunity for her,
788
00:31:51,326 --> 00:31:53,592
none of it is being done
at her behest... true?
789
00:31:53,677 --> 00:31:55,092
True.
790
00:31:55,185 --> 00:31:57,581
Maybe she was saying
what she meant.
791
00:31:57,857 --> 00:32:00,559
Maybe she wasn't interested
in you... or TV.
792
00:32:00,644 --> 00:32:02,910
Objection.
Counsel is testifying.
793
00:32:02,994 --> 00:32:05,473
- Ask a question.
- Okay. All right.
794
00:32:05,558 --> 00:32:07,175
Here's a question.
795
00:32:08,059 --> 00:32:09,455
What's your motive here?
796
00:32:10,322 --> 00:32:12,050
This all about sour grapes?
797
00:32:12,784 --> 00:32:15,614
Because if you believe
in Judge Duggan,
798
00:32:15,698 --> 00:32:19,261
if you believe, like I do,
that her passion for the law,
799
00:32:19,346 --> 00:32:22,091
her sense of integrity,
her ability to communicate
800
00:32:22,176 --> 00:32:24,659
what makes our system
of justice so special
801
00:32:24,744 --> 00:32:27,098
is in fact what
makes her special,
802
00:32:27,383 --> 00:32:29,104
then what are you hoping
to accomplish
803
00:32:29,189 --> 00:32:32,239
by coming in here and casting
aspersions against her?
804
00:32:32,475 --> 00:32:34,567
You know, if this jury
finds her guilty,
805
00:32:34,761 --> 00:32:37,375
not only will she
be done as a judge,
806
00:32:37,459 --> 00:32:41,074
but you won't be able
to sell her to television.
807
00:32:41,206 --> 00:32:42,400
After all,
808
00:32:42,485 --> 00:32:44,972
who wants a judge
that's been found guilty
809
00:32:45,057 --> 00:32:46,975
of obstructing justice?
810
00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:49,518
Everybody.
811
00:32:50,182 --> 00:32:51,433
I mean, this woman is
on the cusp
812
00:32:51,517 --> 00:32:52,886
of being a folk hero.
813
00:32:53,055 --> 00:32:56,761
She helped a regular citizen
escape the clutches of the FBI.
814
00:32:57,812 --> 00:32:59,251
This is America.
815
00:32:59,336 --> 00:33:01,776
We look up to peoplewith
a touch of badass in them.
816
00:33:02,366 --> 00:33:04,909
And, if I'm being
completely honest,
817
00:33:05,078 --> 00:33:07,665
she's an easier sell
if she loses this thing
818
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:08,987
than if she wins.
819
00:33:09,666 --> 00:33:11,159
That's just the truth.
820
00:33:13,047 --> 00:33:14,965
Tell me they
know better.
821
00:33:15,112 --> 00:33:16,943
Tell me they can see
through his cynicism.
822
00:33:17,074 --> 00:33:20,167
They know better.
They can see through his cynicism.
823
00:33:21,183 --> 00:33:22,537
Mr. Colón,
824
00:33:22,622 --> 00:33:24,540
do you have anything else
for this witness?
825
00:33:25,315 --> 00:33:27,784
Nothing I can say in court,
Your Honor.
826
00:33:29,981 --> 00:33:31,896
Will the defendant please rise?
827
00:33:37,189 --> 00:33:39,909
Madam Foreperson,
have you reached a verdict?
828
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:41,654
We have, Your Honor.
829
00:33:42,712 --> 00:33:44,831
We, the jury,
find the defendant guilty
830
00:33:44,916 --> 00:33:48,089
- on all counts.
- Your Honor,
831
00:33:48,174 --> 00:33:49,874
the United States
moves for sentencing.
832
00:33:49,959 --> 00:33:51,703
Put sentencing over
to next week.
833
00:33:51,788 --> 00:33:54,737
- Why? We're just delaying the inevitable.
- Not necessarily.
834
00:33:54,837 --> 00:33:56,511
She's right.
It's over, Bull.
835
00:33:56,596 --> 00:33:58,166
I asked you
to do something.
836
00:33:58,259 --> 00:33:59,695
Is the defense ready
for sentencing?
837
00:34:02,439 --> 00:34:04,053
No, Your Honor.
838
00:34:04,138 --> 00:34:07,417
We'd like a few days
so I can prepare my arguments,
839
00:34:07,502 --> 00:34:09,672
and my client can gether
affairs in order.
840
00:34:14,209 --> 00:34:16,555
You can respect the process,
841
00:34:16,655 --> 00:34:18,493
and still not agreewith the outcome.
842
00:34:19,114 --> 00:34:20,454
And I don't.
843
00:34:22,431 --> 00:34:24,131
So here are my two cents.
844
00:34:25,438 --> 00:34:27,056
I think you're exactly
the kind of judge
845
00:34:27,141 --> 00:34:28,875
we need on the bench.
846
00:34:29,781 --> 00:34:31,321
I mean it.
847
00:34:31,915 --> 00:34:33,663
You're smart and fair.
848
00:34:33,747 --> 00:34:35,540
You treat everyone
with respect.
849
00:34:36,837 --> 00:34:40,060
And you seem determined
to breathe life
850
00:34:40,144 --> 00:34:42,106
into an otherwise
stodgy institution.
851
00:34:42,190 --> 00:34:45,516
Not to mention you make people
actually want to be here.
852
00:34:45,758 --> 00:34:48,219
You have any idea
what a feat that is?
853
00:34:49,125 --> 00:34:50,597
So I'm not giving up.
854
00:34:52,008 --> 00:34:53,223
There's got to be
some common ground.
855
00:34:53,307 --> 00:34:54,554
You're both judges.
856
00:34:54,828 --> 00:34:56,120
And you're both stubborn.
857
00:34:56,717 --> 00:34:58,321
You're both committed
to your work.
858
00:34:58,406 --> 00:35:01,517
It doesn't matter.
He has it in for me.
859
00:35:02,023 --> 00:35:04,701
Let's not forget
he locked me up for contempt.
860
00:35:04,786 --> 00:35:07,133
Because you violated
his rules.
861
00:35:08,133 --> 00:35:09,486
That's right.
You spoke out of turn,
862
00:35:09,570 --> 00:35:11,750
and Judge Hollingsworth
did something about it.
863
00:35:12,062 --> 00:35:14,266
He exercised his
judicial discretion.
864
00:35:14,351 --> 00:35:15,868
And when you stop
and think about it,
865
00:35:15,953 --> 00:35:18,344
he believes in
judicial sovereignty,
866
00:35:18,429 --> 00:35:19,938
which is kind of
another way of saying
867
00:35:20,023 --> 00:35:22,890
he believes in the sanctity
of the courtroom.
868
00:35:24,156 --> 00:35:25,875
Does that remind you of anyone?
869
00:35:27,531 --> 00:35:29,633
Are both parties prepared
to make their arguments
870
00:35:29,718 --> 00:35:30,850
on sentencing?
871
00:35:31,039 --> 00:35:33,418
Actually, we'd like to call a witness,
Your Honor.
872
00:35:33,647 --> 00:35:35,501
We'd like to callJames Wheeler.
873
00:35:35,586 --> 00:35:37,696
Objection.
We haven't been given notice.
874
00:35:37,781 --> 00:35:39,602
This is the first
we've heard of this witness.
875
00:35:39,687 --> 00:35:41,212
Well, as counsel well knows,
876
00:35:41,297 --> 00:35:44,781
the rules of discovery don't
apply in sentencing hearings.
877
00:35:44,945 --> 00:35:46,391
No notice is required.
878
00:35:46,476 --> 00:35:49,289
I agree.
Let's hear from Mr. Wheeler.
879
00:35:49,691 --> 00:35:52,063
I'm gonna get right to it,
Mr. Wheeler.
880
00:35:52,148 --> 00:35:53,313
You are no stranger
881
00:35:53,398 --> 00:35:55,875
to the criminal justice
system, are you?
882
00:35:56,375 --> 00:35:58,453
No, I'm sorry to say I'm not.
883
00:35:58,538 --> 00:36:01,633
You have been convicted
of a crime, haven't you?
884
00:36:02,875 --> 00:36:04,727
Yes. When I was a teenager,
885
00:36:04,812 --> 00:36:07,328
I... I was a member of a gang,
886
00:36:07,467 --> 00:36:11,117
and I...
we got into trouble, yes.
887
00:36:11,757 --> 00:36:14,867
Five years ago,
did you rob a liquor store?
888
00:36:15,015 --> 00:36:16,359
I did.
889
00:36:16,664 --> 00:36:17,751
Four of us went in,
890
00:36:17,836 --> 00:36:19,414
and one of the guys had a gun.
891
00:36:19,499 --> 00:36:22,265
And you stood watch
while he demanded money.
892
00:36:23,546 --> 00:36:25,155
Yes, I did.
893
00:36:26,062 --> 00:36:28,429
And were you prosecuted
for the robbery?
894
00:36:28,577 --> 00:36:29,779
We all were.
895
00:36:30,554 --> 00:36:33,555
And everyone got sent to prison,
896
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,393
ex-except me.
897
00:36:35,593 --> 00:36:37,343
- And why is that?
- Your Honor,
898
00:36:37,584 --> 00:36:38,992
we all know where
this is going.
899
00:36:39,077 --> 00:36:40,843
I'd like to hear
from the witness.
900
00:36:41,272 --> 00:36:42,366
Continue.
901
00:36:43,439 --> 00:36:44,617
I don't know.
902
00:36:44,702 --> 00:36:46,531
I think the judge saw
something in me,
903
00:36:46,616 --> 00:36:48,929
thought I-I could do something
with my life.
904
00:36:49,701 --> 00:36:52,149
Anyway, I got sentenced
to probation.
905
00:36:52,343 --> 00:36:54,030
And what's happened since then?
906
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:57,140
Well, I finished my probation.
907
00:36:57,257 --> 00:36:59,632
Haven't gotten in trouble since.
908
00:36:59,865 --> 00:37:01,171
You finish high school?
909
00:37:01,978 --> 00:37:03,374
Got my GED,
910
00:37:03,498 --> 00:37:05,198
and now I'm in college,
911
00:37:05,335 --> 00:37:07,116
studying to be
a computer programmer.
912
00:37:07,405 --> 00:37:10,016
And I-I also help out
my little brother.
913
00:37:10,101 --> 00:37:12,484
He's graduating high school
next year.
914
00:37:13,241 --> 00:37:14,601
So...
915
00:37:15,124 --> 00:37:17,741
the judge saw
something special in you,
916
00:37:18,452 --> 00:37:20,320
gave you a break, and now
917
00:37:20,405 --> 00:37:23,921
you are a productive
member of society.
918
00:37:24,538 --> 00:37:27,296
I-I like to think so, yeah.
919
00:37:28,351 --> 00:37:32,063
Mr. Wheeler, could you please
look around the courtroom
920
00:37:32,148 --> 00:37:34,491
and identify that judge for us?
921
00:37:38,945 --> 00:37:40,359
Uh...
922
00:37:42,514 --> 00:37:44,128
he's sitting right here.
923
00:37:45,879 --> 00:37:47,484
Judge Hollingsworth...
924
00:37:49,866 --> 00:37:51,088
Thank you.
925
00:37:52,468 --> 00:37:54,460
I-I know it's been a while.
926
00:37:54,633 --> 00:37:57,054
I guess you don'tremember me.
927
00:37:57,361 --> 00:37:58,797
But I remember you.
928
00:38:00,698 --> 00:38:03,005
And I'll never forget
what you did for me.
929
00:38:04,287 --> 00:38:07,349
Objection.
That is a touching story,
930
00:38:07,434 --> 00:38:09,443
but the witness has
no relevance
931
00:38:09,528 --> 00:38:11,685
to the sentencing
of this defendant.
932
00:38:11,998 --> 00:38:13,865
I'm sorry, I disagree.
933
00:38:14,401 --> 00:38:16,490
It's completely relevant,
Your Honor.
934
00:38:16,869 --> 00:38:19,325
You know, there's a striking
similarity between
935
00:38:19,410 --> 00:38:21,589
what you did for Mr. Wheeler
936
00:38:21,674 --> 00:38:24,506
and what Judge Duggan was
trying to do for Nurse Jansen.
937
00:38:25,133 --> 00:38:27,747
Now, Nurse Jansen was
938
00:38:27,949 --> 00:38:29,482
led to believe that
939
00:38:29,567 --> 00:38:33,748
what she was doing, testifying,
was the right thing to do.
940
00:38:33,963 --> 00:38:36,825
Not a trap,
but a solemn duty.
941
00:38:37,249 --> 00:38:38,966
And even though
it might not have
942
00:38:39,051 --> 00:38:41,186
hewed to the letter of the law,
943
00:38:41,316 --> 00:38:44,083
Judge Duggan could
not allow herto be arrested
944
00:38:44,168 --> 00:38:45,763
without benefit of counsel.
945
00:38:46,664 --> 00:38:51,396
Hauled off in handcuffs
in front of jurors
946
00:38:51,481 --> 00:38:52,919
and members of
the general public
947
00:38:53,004 --> 00:38:54,104
sitting in the gallery.
948
00:38:54,197 --> 00:38:55,521
No.
949
00:38:56,439 --> 00:38:58,357
In her judicial wisdom,
950
00:38:58,910 --> 00:39:01,904
she realized there had to be
another way.
951
00:39:02,487 --> 00:39:04,739
One that didn't compromise
her courtroom,
952
00:39:04,824 --> 00:39:09,223
but also didn't shortchange
or undercut the authority
953
00:39:09,308 --> 00:39:12,140
of the federal agents charged
with bringing her in.
954
00:39:12,373 --> 00:39:14,294
Don't you see,
Judge Hollingsworth?
955
00:39:16,196 --> 00:39:18,811
You did the same thing
in Mr. Wheeler's case.
956
00:39:19,583 --> 00:39:22,013
You ignored the federal
sentencing guidelines,
957
00:39:22,098 --> 00:39:25,565
and instead, looked
to the purpose behind them.
958
00:39:26,016 --> 00:39:29,153
Which is to promote
public safety
959
00:39:29,238 --> 00:39:30,720
and the good of our society.
960
00:39:30,928 --> 00:39:33,700
I mean, isn't that one of the
reasons why we have judges?
961
00:39:34,577 --> 00:39:38,059
To bring their human wisdom
and judgment to bear?
962
00:39:40,731 --> 00:39:42,607
Thank you, Mr. Colón.
963
00:39:44,335 --> 00:39:45,644
Mr. Olsen,
964
00:39:45,734 --> 00:39:47,760
do you have any evidence
to present on sentencing?
965
00:39:49,232 --> 00:39:51,396
No, Your Honor.
966
00:39:51,481 --> 00:39:54,302
I would simply ask that
you sentence the defendant
967
00:39:54,387 --> 00:39:55,652
to serve 48 months
968
00:39:55,737 --> 00:39:57,661
- in prison.
- Mr. Colón,
969
00:39:57,746 --> 00:39:59,130
I'll hear your recommendation.
970
00:39:59,215 --> 00:40:02,265
Actually, Your Honor, I'm not
making any recommendations.
971
00:40:03,168 --> 00:40:06,130
I'm asking you to exercise
your sovereignty
972
00:40:06,215 --> 00:40:07,828
and discretion one more time.
973
00:40:08,779 --> 00:40:10,036
You have the power
974
00:40:10,121 --> 00:40:11,466
to right this wrong.
975
00:40:11,668 --> 00:40:13,891
You can issue a judgment
of acquittal.
976
00:40:14,772 --> 00:40:16,849
You want me to set aside
the jury's verdict
977
00:40:16,934 --> 00:40:19,023
and enter a finding
of not guilty?
978
00:40:19,694 --> 00:40:21,146
I do.
979
00:40:21,919 --> 00:40:23,325
It's highly unusual.
980
00:40:23,410 --> 00:40:25,938
Unusual, but not unwarranted.
981
00:40:26,092 --> 00:40:29,968
Judge Duggan is a principled jurist,
and so are you.
982
00:40:31,093 --> 00:40:33,169
No legitimate purpose
983
00:40:33,254 --> 00:40:35,630
will be served by
branding her a felon
984
00:40:35,715 --> 00:40:37,146
and sending her to prison.
985
00:40:50,249 --> 00:40:53,341
Judge Duggan, please rise.
986
00:40:57,255 --> 00:40:58,802
I've made my ruling.
987
00:41:00,825 --> 00:41:02,927
I don't condone what you did,
988
00:41:03,959 --> 00:41:06,966
but I respect your reasoning.
989
00:41:08,953 --> 00:41:11,872
And I'm-I'm going to adopt
Mr. Colón's request
990
00:41:12,202 --> 00:41:14,474
and issue a judgment
for acquittal.
991
00:41:15,369 --> 00:41:16,503
Your Honor...
992
00:41:16,588 --> 00:41:18,568
Do not speak, Mr. Olsen,
993
00:41:18,653 --> 00:41:21,216
or I will hold you in contempt.
994
00:41:21,736 --> 00:41:23,091
I hereby
995
00:41:23,176 --> 00:41:25,094
set aside the jury's verdict,
996
00:41:25,179 --> 00:41:27,967
and I find you not guilty.
997
00:41:28,063 --> 00:41:30,333
Court is in recess.
998
00:41:38,159 --> 00:41:39,773
Hey.
999
00:41:40,459 --> 00:41:43,029
Ah.Look at her.
1000
00:41:43,392 --> 00:41:45,419
She looks like a kid
who just found out
1001
00:41:45,504 --> 00:41:47,896
she doesn't have to change
schools, clean out her locker
1002
00:41:47,988 --> 00:41:49,935
- and leave her friends after all.
- Mm.
1003
00:41:50,020 --> 00:41:51,859
Of course, it'snot quite over.
1004
00:41:51,943 --> 00:41:54,880
She's still got to go before
the Committee on Judicial Conduct.
1005
00:41:55,529 --> 00:41:58,661
I'm gonna see if they'll
let me testify on her behalf.
1006
00:42:00,105 --> 00:42:02,091
You were right
about her, Bull.
1007
00:42:02,449 --> 00:42:04,388
You were right about
all of it.: Yeah.
1008
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:06,021
Well, what can I say?
1009
00:42:06,184 --> 00:42:09,876
She loves court,
trials and juries.
1010
00:42:10,638 --> 00:42:12,200
Guess it takes oneto know one.
1011
00:42:12,513 --> 00:42:14,099
Want to get out of here?
1012
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:15,849
Lead the way, sir.
1013
00:42:18,286 --> 00:42:21,060
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