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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:22,168 --> 00:00:24,437 Ladies and Gentlemen, here she is now. 2 00:00:24,438 --> 00:00:28,441 Let's get together and meet that very delightful, 3 00:00:28,442 --> 00:00:31,310 that sultry siren of the southland, 4 00:00:31,311 --> 00:00:34,847 the lovely Bettie Page. 5 00:00:52,666 --> 00:00:54,000 Who are you? 6 00:00:54,001 --> 00:00:57,003 I'm an illusion. 7 00:00:57,004 --> 00:00:59,138 You're an illusion? 8 00:00:59,139 --> 00:01:01,941 Then you're not real? 9 00:01:01,942 --> 00:01:04,443 Of course, I'm real. 10 00:01:04,444 --> 00:01:06,512 It is very difficult 11 00:01:06,513 --> 00:01:10,650 to find a parallel for her. 12 00:01:10,651 --> 00:01:14,487 I mean, this combination of... 13 00:01:14,488 --> 00:01:16,522 naughty and nice. 14 00:01:16,523 --> 00:01:21,227 And it is all in the context of innocence. 15 00:01:21,228 --> 00:01:24,096 She expressed sexual liberation. 16 00:01:24,097 --> 00:01:27,333 Bettie is still this subversive, 17 00:01:27,334 --> 00:01:30,536 adventurous, sexual persona 18 00:01:30,537 --> 00:01:32,672 that people are trying to emulate. 19 00:01:32,673 --> 00:01:34,674 I think it's like the confusion 20 00:01:34,675 --> 00:01:37,310 between maybe the real person 21 00:01:37,311 --> 00:01:40,079 and the artwork and the cartoons, 22 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:41,480 like all of these... 23 00:01:41,481 --> 00:01:44,183 it's sort of confusing even whether she was a real person or not. 24 00:01:44,184 --> 00:01:47,119 People love Bettie Page for her whole being 25 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,989 for the radiance that she exuded, 26 00:01:49,990 --> 00:01:52,825 the sexuality that she showed 27 00:01:52,826 --> 00:01:55,962 without being cheap, ever. 28 00:01:55,963 --> 00:01:58,564 And women gravitated to that concept. 29 00:01:58,565 --> 00:02:01,000 The remarkable thing about her image is 30 00:02:01,001 --> 00:02:02,902 how much it has influenced pop culture 31 00:02:02,903 --> 00:02:06,272 from movies to music to fashion. It's remarkable. 32 00:02:44,244 --> 00:02:48,447 One of the things that I love about her iconography 33 00:02:48,448 --> 00:02:52,351 is that she just portrayed herself as a very strong woman, 34 00:02:52,352 --> 00:02:55,288 even if she was not in the position of power. 35 00:02:58,959 --> 00:03:02,595 She's lasted because she has that rare quality 36 00:03:02,596 --> 00:03:06,397 that's sort of hard to define, it's that sort of ultimate star quality. 37 00:03:07,534 --> 00:03:10,636 I feel like a lot of girls like me 38 00:03:10,637 --> 00:03:12,338 can identify with Bettie 39 00:03:12,339 --> 00:03:14,307 because you can kind of capture the spirit 40 00:03:14,308 --> 00:03:18,644 of that sexy, sensual, timeless look. 41 00:03:19,713 --> 00:03:23,649 She looks fantastic and I think that's what men prefer. 42 00:03:23,650 --> 00:03:30,623 I don't think men prefer the really skinny, bones thin women. 43 00:03:30,624 --> 00:03:33,659 I think Bettie Page is a real woman. 44 00:03:33,660 --> 00:03:36,195 I mean she have form, boobs, 45 00:03:36,196 --> 00:03:39,724 butt, and that's very beautiful. 46 00:03:41,868 --> 00:03:45,965 I gave her a lot of credit because she opened the door for a lot of us. 47 00:03:48,942 --> 00:03:51,677 She's the most important glamour icon 48 00:03:51,678 --> 00:03:55,104 that she really paved the way for all the rest. 49 00:03:58,251 --> 00:04:02,154 And she's beautiful but yet she's approachable, 50 00:04:02,155 --> 00:04:03,723 she's the girl next door. 51 00:04:03,724 --> 00:04:06,525 Bettie Page is the good girl but she's a bad girl. 52 00:04:06,526 --> 00:04:08,427 She's fun, she's playful. 53 00:04:08,428 --> 00:04:10,557 All right, bitch, bring it. 54 00:04:17,704 --> 00:04:20,106 Oh, st... ah! 55 00:04:20,107 --> 00:04:23,576 I mean, she's the reason why we're all here today 56 00:04:23,577 --> 00:04:24,944 in a sense is because of her, 57 00:04:24,945 --> 00:04:28,347 I mean, she's the original pinup girl, she's the original. 58 00:04:28,348 --> 00:04:30,549 We're all going to be dust, 59 00:04:30,550 --> 00:04:32,284 they'll be nothing else anymore, 60 00:04:32,285 --> 00:04:35,254 and there'll always be Bettie Page no matter what. 61 00:04:35,255 --> 00:04:36,756 She had the magic. 62 00:04:36,757 --> 00:04:38,457 She was deeply religious. 63 00:04:38,458 --> 00:04:41,894 She was willing to do all kinds of crazy outrageous things. 64 00:04:41,895 --> 00:04:44,997 There's some rather large skeletons in that woman's closet. 65 00:04:44,998 --> 00:04:47,800 How do you reconcile that behavior 66 00:04:47,801 --> 00:04:53,105 with the image that she projects in these photographs? 67 00:04:53,106 --> 00:04:57,009 She reached the peak of popularity in her profession and disappeared. 68 00:04:57,010 --> 00:05:00,436 Nobody knew what happened to Bettie Page. 69 00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:05,504 Bettie, if you know what's going on, 70 00:07:05,505 --> 00:07:10,643 I want to tell you this is your friend Robert Schuller saying, 71 00:07:10,644 --> 00:07:15,881 "This too is the day that God has made. 72 00:07:15,882 --> 00:07:20,486 Let us rejoice and be glad in it." 73 00:07:20,487 --> 00:07:25,124 We all thought we knew her from different perspectives, 74 00:07:25,125 --> 00:07:28,527 but I'm sure no one will leave this place today 75 00:07:28,528 --> 00:07:30,629 without having had another glimpse 76 00:07:30,630 --> 00:07:35,626 into the private heart of Bettie. 77 00:07:38,438 --> 00:07:43,208 Okay, Bettie, I'll just ask you some questions. 78 00:07:43,209 --> 00:07:44,310 Okay. 79 00:07:44,311 --> 00:07:46,612 You were born in Nashville, right? 80 00:07:46,613 --> 00:07:49,548 I was born in Nashville, Tennessee, 81 00:07:49,549 --> 00:07:53,350 April 22nd, 1923. 82 00:07:54,054 --> 00:07:57,056 We were so poor, we lived on beans, 83 00:07:57,057 --> 00:08:00,025 fried potatoes, and macaroni. 84 00:08:00,026 --> 00:08:03,095 You couldn't talk to Mama, 85 00:08:03,096 --> 00:08:06,699 she didn't want any girls in the first place. 86 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:10,126 She always wanted only two boys. 87 00:08:11,504 --> 00:08:14,440 My father was a womanizer of the worst sort. 88 00:08:14,441 --> 00:08:17,009 A sex fiend is the way to put it. 89 00:08:17,010 --> 00:08:21,647 I mean sex with anything that he could get his "you know what" into. 90 00:08:21,648 --> 00:08:26,485 Chickens, and sheep, and cows, and anything. 91 00:08:26,486 --> 00:08:29,288 And in order to get 10 cents to go to the movies, 92 00:08:29,289 --> 00:08:31,690 I let him fool around on the outside. 93 00:08:31,691 --> 00:08:36,221 Now, he didn't penetrate me inside like he did my two sisters. 94 00:08:38,865 --> 00:08:42,901 Mama left him and hitchhiked 30 miles to Nashville 95 00:08:42,902 --> 00:08:45,004 with six children, 96 00:08:45,005 --> 00:08:47,406 and she was uneducated, only a third grade education, 97 00:08:47,407 --> 00:08:49,408 she had no trade at all, 98 00:08:49,409 --> 00:08:52,111 and she couldn't take care of all six of us children, 99 00:08:52,112 --> 00:08:56,243 so my two sisters and I were put in a Protestant orphanage for a year. 100 00:08:57,984 --> 00:09:02,021 The orphanage was run by three old maids. 101 00:09:02,022 --> 00:09:06,959 They would talk to us like dogs, they were very mean to us, 102 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,461 and they had me scrubbing floors all the time. 103 00:09:09,462 --> 00:09:12,194 I was only 11 years old then. 104 00:09:13,733 --> 00:09:16,368 We just hated that place. 105 00:09:16,369 --> 00:09:19,567 I was so glad to get out of there. 106 00:09:24,010 --> 00:09:27,413 I learned to pose from movie star pictures 107 00:09:27,414 --> 00:09:30,612 in magazines and newspapers. 108 00:09:32,919 --> 00:09:37,489 And my sisters and I would try to mimic their poses. 109 00:09:37,490 --> 00:09:41,660 We'd even get out in the front yard with our underwear on. 110 00:09:45,899 --> 00:09:47,666 I had several photographers 111 00:09:47,667 --> 00:09:49,501 and amateur photographers 112 00:09:49,502 --> 00:09:51,170 come up and approach me and ask me 113 00:09:51,171 --> 00:09:55,063 if they could take pictures of me, I always said yes. 114 00:09:56,710 --> 00:10:01,346 My dream when I was in high school was to be Valedictorian, 115 00:10:01,347 --> 00:10:05,350 and I studied so hard trying to be Valedictorian 116 00:10:05,351 --> 00:10:11,156 because with it was a four year scholarship to Vanderbilt University. 117 00:10:11,157 --> 00:10:13,659 But I was beat out of Valedictorian 118 00:10:13,660 --> 00:10:16,395 by one-quarter of a point now, 119 00:10:16,396 --> 00:10:20,365 can you imagine, and I had to settle for being Salutatorian. 120 00:10:20,366 --> 00:10:23,168 And all I got was a $100 scholarship 121 00:10:23,169 --> 00:10:26,231 to George Peabody College for Teachers. 122 00:10:27,907 --> 00:10:31,610 After high school, I started dating Billy Neal. 123 00:10:31,611 --> 00:10:35,914 He was a big sports hero around town. 124 00:10:35,915 --> 00:10:37,950 And he taught me to dance, 125 00:10:37,951 --> 00:10:41,019 which I've always loved. 126 00:10:41,020 --> 00:10:45,424 And he taught me everything about sex too, 127 00:10:45,425 --> 00:10:48,316 which I enjoyed. 128 00:10:50,130 --> 00:10:52,731 Well, when the war came on, 129 00:10:52,732 --> 00:10:55,334 he was drafted one day into the army, 130 00:10:55,335 --> 00:10:59,304 and he started bugging me about marrying him. 131 00:10:59,305 --> 00:11:01,940 We got on the bus and went 132 00:11:01,941 --> 00:11:04,243 30 miles to Galliton, Tennessee, 133 00:11:04,244 --> 00:11:07,545 and were married in five minutes. 134 00:11:08,982 --> 00:11:12,017 And when I got on the bus to go back with him, 135 00:11:12,018 --> 00:11:15,512 I said to myself, "What have I done?" 136 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:25,664 Well, we were in San Francisco, 1944. 137 00:11:25,665 --> 00:11:28,233 And this fella, he took a lot of pictures of me 138 00:11:28,234 --> 00:11:31,470 and sent some of them down to 20th Century Fox. 139 00:11:32,171 --> 00:11:35,974 I had a screen test with John Russell 140 00:11:35,975 --> 00:11:40,479 who later played the lawman on a TV series. 141 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,448 But that test was awful. 142 00:11:43,449 --> 00:11:45,984 They tried to make me up 143 00:11:45,985 --> 00:11:48,287 to look like Joan Crawford. 144 00:11:48,288 --> 00:11:51,390 Didn't even look like me. 145 00:11:52,826 --> 00:11:54,526 While I was at the studio, 146 00:11:54,527 --> 00:11:57,396 this big car pulled up beside me... 147 00:11:57,397 --> 00:11:59,865 and a big fat guy, 148 00:11:59,866 --> 00:12:01,834 very ugly looking fella, 149 00:12:01,835 --> 00:12:04,069 wanted me to go to dinner with him. 150 00:12:04,070 --> 00:12:06,038 I told him no. 151 00:12:06,039 --> 00:12:09,708 And he said, "You'll be sorry." 152 00:12:09,709 --> 00:12:12,144 Well, he was at the head of the table 153 00:12:12,145 --> 00:12:15,047 when I went to learn 154 00:12:15,048 --> 00:12:16,882 the results of the screen test. 155 00:12:16,883 --> 00:12:19,046 That test was awful. 156 00:12:19,786 --> 00:12:22,054 I was so disappointed and unhappy 157 00:12:22,055 --> 00:12:24,857 over the failure of the screen test, 158 00:12:24,858 --> 00:12:26,458 when I got back to San Francisco, 159 00:12:26,459 --> 00:12:28,994 I started eating. 160 00:12:28,995 --> 00:12:33,388 Within two months, I ballooned way up to 162 pounds. 161 00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:36,668 Well, my sister came to visit me, 162 00:12:36,669 --> 00:12:38,537 Goldie, from Nashville. 163 00:12:38,538 --> 00:12:41,874 She said that the landlord, he had cussed her out 164 00:12:41,875 --> 00:12:44,610 and accused her of causing 165 00:12:44,611 --> 00:12:48,714 the sink in the bathroom to fall off the wall. 166 00:12:48,715 --> 00:12:51,650 I went to the door, and boy, he flew in on me, 167 00:12:51,651 --> 00:12:55,454 beating me in the face with his fist, just a mad man. 168 00:12:55,455 --> 00:12:59,124 And Goldie grabbed the milk bottle and cracked him over the head with it. 169 00:12:59,125 --> 00:13:01,760 And he started bleeding down the front of his head, 170 00:13:01,761 --> 00:13:05,163 and he thought he was dying, and we did too. 171 00:13:05,164 --> 00:13:08,033 Because Goldie was underage, 172 00:13:08,034 --> 00:13:11,904 under 21, I'm the one who had to testify, 173 00:13:11,905 --> 00:13:15,274 even though I'm not the one who hit him over the head. 174 00:13:15,275 --> 00:13:20,312 But they gave me a 30-day suspended sentence and I had to pay 10 dollars, 175 00:13:20,313 --> 00:13:24,149 and it was in the paper, a great big picture of me 176 00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:28,020 and a big headline, "Tenant Bashes Landlord". 177 00:13:33,726 --> 00:13:38,463 Well, Billy came back from fighting overseas. 178 00:13:38,464 --> 00:13:40,499 He had battle fatigue, you know, he was in the hospital, 179 00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:43,936 in the army hospital in Guam for about six months. 180 00:13:43,937 --> 00:13:46,571 When he came home, he wasn't the same guy. 181 00:13:46,572 --> 00:13:48,807 He was a jealous maniac. 182 00:13:48,808 --> 00:13:52,778 Accused me of sleeping with every sailor in San Francisco, 183 00:13:52,779 --> 00:13:54,813 and he went off the deep end. 184 00:13:54,814 --> 00:13:58,250 So I tried so hard to make a go of it with him but it was impossible. 185 00:13:58,251 --> 00:14:00,919 We were sitting in the kitchen, 186 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,221 and he had a knife right at my throat, 187 00:14:03,222 --> 00:14:06,224 he was gonna cut me with it if I divorced him. 188 00:14:06,225 --> 00:14:09,617 I went ahead and divorced him anyhow. 189 00:14:13,099 --> 00:14:15,867 When I went to New York, I was getting over 190 00:14:15,868 --> 00:14:20,500 my divorce from Billy Neal and the miserable marriage. 191 00:14:21,274 --> 00:14:25,043 I liked all the lights on Broadway. 192 00:14:25,044 --> 00:14:27,946 And I liked Central Park. 193 00:14:27,947 --> 00:14:33,585 All I paid for my apartment on West 46th Street, 194 00:14:33,586 --> 00:14:38,924 46 dollars and 29 cents a month. 195 00:14:38,925 --> 00:14:41,994 I used to go to the Roseland ballroom. 196 00:14:41,995 --> 00:14:45,330 And then I went dancing so much. 197 00:14:45,331 --> 00:14:48,433 I was a movie fiend in those days. 198 00:14:48,434 --> 00:14:51,103 Didn't cost much of anything, 40 or 50 cents, 199 00:14:51,104 --> 00:14:53,904 something like that, to see a double feature. 200 00:14:55,541 --> 00:14:58,777 One night, I was very lonely, 201 00:14:58,778 --> 00:15:03,749 and I was walking along Broadway, and a good looking fella came up 202 00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:05,951 and started talking to me, introduced himself. 203 00:15:05,952 --> 00:15:09,788 He was very polite and courteous, seemed like a very nice fella. 204 00:15:09,789 --> 00:15:12,357 He asked me, "Would like to go dancing?" 205 00:15:12,358 --> 00:15:14,860 I said, "Sure, I'd love to go." 206 00:15:14,861 --> 00:15:16,561 So we got in the car, 207 00:15:16,562 --> 00:15:18,030 and he and I sat in the back, 208 00:15:18,031 --> 00:15:21,199 and the girlfriend and the boyfriend driving. 209 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,203 Well, we stopped at a red light, and two guys jumped in the car. 210 00:15:25,204 --> 00:15:26,905 We went farther on, 211 00:15:26,906 --> 00:15:29,708 two more fellas got in the car. 212 00:15:29,709 --> 00:15:33,412 But when it hit me, a big pain shot through me 213 00:15:33,413 --> 00:15:35,280 as we crossed that bridge and I thought, 214 00:15:35,281 --> 00:15:37,979 "We are not going dancing." 215 00:15:39,552 --> 00:15:42,921 You can imagine how you would have felt then 216 00:15:42,922 --> 00:15:47,258 with six men in the car and the two women. 217 00:15:49,262 --> 00:15:51,229 The guy in front and his girlfriend 218 00:15:51,230 --> 00:15:53,598 got out of the car and went behind the building. 219 00:15:53,599 --> 00:15:57,135 I thought real fast, and I said I'm menstruating, 220 00:15:57,136 --> 00:15:59,638 you can't have sex with me. 221 00:15:59,639 --> 00:16:02,974 And all five of those snakes forced me 222 00:16:02,975 --> 00:16:07,072 to perform oral sex on every one of them. 223 00:16:09,415 --> 00:16:14,411 They could have killed me or something and left me dead behind that school. 224 00:16:17,390 --> 00:16:21,851 I went home to Mama right away, I was so frightened. 225 00:16:27,967 --> 00:16:31,770 Back in New York, the first secretarial job I ever had 226 00:16:31,771 --> 00:16:35,674 in New York was for the American Bread Company. 227 00:16:35,675 --> 00:16:39,067 I was a secretary to the office manager. 228 00:16:43,116 --> 00:16:44,316 I had a small room up on the fifth floor of an old brownstone house. 229 00:16:45,685 --> 00:16:49,421 Somebody knocked on the door around midnight. 230 00:16:49,422 --> 00:16:50,989 Who is it? 231 00:16:50,990 --> 00:16:53,024 And he said, "Bettie, open the door, it's Billy." 232 00:16:53,025 --> 00:16:55,360 - What do you want? - "Let me in." 233 00:16:55,361 --> 00:16:59,231 A friend of mine in the next apartment, a little fella named Jimmy, 234 00:16:59,232 --> 00:17:01,967 a 50-year-old man, came out to the door 235 00:17:01,968 --> 00:17:04,503 and asked what was going on. 236 00:17:04,504 --> 00:17:06,238 Well, Billy told him to mind his own business, 237 00:17:06,239 --> 00:17:09,708 and he cut little Jimmy across the face, 238 00:17:09,709 --> 00:17:12,244 a couple of inches with a knife now. 239 00:17:12,245 --> 00:17:15,705 He was going to kill me with a knife is what he was going to do. 240 00:17:16,649 --> 00:17:18,350 He must have left. 241 00:17:18,351 --> 00:17:21,015 He didn't come back. 242 00:17:23,890 --> 00:17:27,192 I was working as secretary, way up high 243 00:17:27,193 --> 00:17:29,761 in the Eastern Airlines building on the 12th floor, 244 00:17:29,762 --> 00:17:33,365 overlooking the skating rink in Rockefeller Center, 245 00:17:33,366 --> 00:17:35,400 a very nice place to work. 246 00:17:35,401 --> 00:17:39,271 And that's where I met the love of my life, Carlos Garcia Arrese. 247 00:17:40,473 --> 00:17:43,008 You know I was a nut over dancing back in those days. 248 00:17:43,009 --> 00:17:47,612 And he taught me the rumba, and mambo, and cha-cha, and samba. 249 00:17:47,613 --> 00:17:50,415 And he was very good at it. 250 00:17:50,416 --> 00:17:54,186 Well, we dated and we were making mad love, 251 00:17:54,187 --> 00:17:56,487 he was a very good lover. 252 00:17:57,557 --> 00:18:00,258 One night I was up at his apartment, 253 00:18:00,259 --> 00:18:04,062 all of a sudden, a big loud knocking on the door, 254 00:18:04,063 --> 00:18:06,064 "Carlos, open up the door, I know you're in there." 255 00:18:06,065 --> 00:18:10,669 And she was really mad, and I thought, oh gosh, who's that? 256 00:18:10,670 --> 00:18:12,704 And he said, "Bettie, that's my wife." 257 00:18:12,705 --> 00:18:15,073 I said, "Your wife!" 258 00:18:15,074 --> 00:18:19,110 I never felt so low in my life, I felt like two cents. 259 00:18:19,111 --> 00:18:23,148 I didn't want to see him again because he had deceived me. 260 00:18:23,149 --> 00:18:28,077 But if I had known he was married I would never have dated him. 261 00:18:33,192 --> 00:18:36,161 I always wanted to be a fashion model. 262 00:18:36,162 --> 00:18:40,532 And I went to... let's see, what was the name of the most famous one? 263 00:18:40,533 --> 00:18:43,101 Ford, that's it. She says, "Oh, my." 264 00:18:43,102 --> 00:18:45,770 She says, "You would never do as a fashion model." 265 00:18:45,771 --> 00:18:48,173 She says, "In the first place, you're not tall enough." 266 00:18:48,174 --> 00:18:50,775 But she says, "More than that," she says, "you're too hippy." 267 00:18:50,776 --> 00:18:53,111 You've got to be skin and bones, you know. 268 00:18:53,112 --> 00:18:55,946 Even back then, to be a fashion model. 269 00:18:59,819 --> 00:19:04,889 In October 1950, I was walking out on Coney Island. 270 00:19:04,890 --> 00:19:07,459 Nobody was on the beach in that area, 271 00:19:07,460 --> 00:19:09,794 except this black fella, Jerry Tibbs. 272 00:19:09,795 --> 00:19:13,999 He gave me his card and he said, "I'm a Brooklyn policeman." 273 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,435 He said, "I think you'd make a good pinup model." 274 00:19:17,436 --> 00:19:20,605 He said, "I have a studio, if you would come over there 275 00:19:20,606 --> 00:19:22,674 free of charge, I'll make you up a portfolio 276 00:19:22,675 --> 00:19:25,744 that you could take around to the studios." 277 00:19:25,745 --> 00:19:28,880 I posed in a couple of bikinis of his. 278 00:19:28,881 --> 00:19:31,816 But he said, "Bettie, have you ever tried to wear bangs?" 279 00:19:31,817 --> 00:19:35,553 He said, "You have a very high forehead, I think you'd look good in bangs." 280 00:19:35,554 --> 00:19:38,223 So I went home and cut me some. 281 00:19:38,224 --> 00:19:43,495 And I've been wearing them ever since, its sort of been a trademark of mine, 282 00:19:43,496 --> 00:19:45,964 I'm still wearing them. 283 00:19:45,965 --> 00:19:48,466 That's that famous Bettie Page look, isn't it? 284 00:19:52,271 --> 00:19:54,105 I think I was about 27 285 00:19:54,106 --> 00:19:55,807 when I started modeling, 286 00:19:55,808 --> 00:19:57,609 but I looked much younger. 287 00:19:57,610 --> 00:20:00,412 All of the writers and editors 288 00:20:00,413 --> 00:20:03,114 would say I was 22 years old, 289 00:20:03,115 --> 00:20:05,784 they were saying that for years that I was 22. 290 00:20:05,785 --> 00:20:09,354 I never refuted it, I never said anything one way or another, 291 00:20:09,355 --> 00:20:11,389 let them think what they wanted to. 292 00:20:13,259 --> 00:20:17,729 The first modeling I did was for the camera clubs. 293 00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:21,691 First one was Cass Carr who was an orchestra leader. 294 00:20:23,402 --> 00:20:25,136 Every Sunday we'd say we're going out 295 00:20:25,137 --> 00:20:27,939 to Headly Farm in New Jersey or some other farm, 296 00:20:27,940 --> 00:20:31,476 or we're going out to Fire Island or Broad Channel Bay. 297 00:20:31,477 --> 00:20:35,080 Bettie Page and four other amateur models will be with them, 298 00:20:35,081 --> 00:20:37,916 and it would cost ten dollars or five dollars. 299 00:20:37,917 --> 00:20:41,419 There would be maybe 30 or 40 camera club members 300 00:20:41,420 --> 00:20:44,055 and three or four models. 301 00:20:44,056 --> 00:20:46,591 We would go on field trips, on weekends, 302 00:20:46,592 --> 00:20:48,793 upstate New York, over in New Jersey, 303 00:20:48,794 --> 00:20:51,719 on the beaches, especially on Fire Island. 304 00:20:53,065 --> 00:20:55,933 I got 25 dollars a day. 305 00:20:57,370 --> 00:21:01,940 And we would be gone all afternoon and they would bring lunches, 306 00:21:01,941 --> 00:21:05,377 and I enjoyed the outings very much. 307 00:21:05,378 --> 00:21:09,614 They were always polite and courteous to us. 308 00:21:09,615 --> 00:21:11,516 I enjoyed posing for them. 309 00:21:11,517 --> 00:21:14,786 It was absolutely fun photographing Bettie. 310 00:21:14,787 --> 00:21:18,690 And I could tell, I think it shows up in the photographs, 311 00:21:18,691 --> 00:21:20,625 that she enjoyed it too. 312 00:21:20,626 --> 00:21:22,093 She was happy. 313 00:21:22,094 --> 00:21:24,996 She was exhilarated. 314 00:21:24,997 --> 00:21:26,331 She projected. 315 00:21:26,332 --> 00:21:28,400 She came right out at you. 316 00:21:28,401 --> 00:21:30,935 Whereas others were just pretty. 317 00:21:30,936 --> 00:21:34,272 When she turned, she didn't just turn and smile, 318 00:21:34,273 --> 00:21:36,174 her hands, her body, her feet, 319 00:21:36,175 --> 00:21:38,343 everything moved, everything moved. 320 00:21:38,344 --> 00:21:41,613 She smiled with her face, she smiled with her whole body. 321 00:21:41,614 --> 00:21:44,039 And that's something very few girls got. 322 00:21:45,284 --> 00:21:48,386 The good pinup involves three things: 323 00:21:48,387 --> 00:21:52,290 Pose, clothes, and expression. 324 00:21:52,291 --> 00:21:55,193 She knew just when I said, pert, saucy, 325 00:21:55,194 --> 00:21:58,396 frisky, haughty, angry, sullen, 326 00:21:58,397 --> 00:22:01,299 whereas with many other models I'd have to tell them, 327 00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:03,268 "Well, no, tilt your head up a little bit," 328 00:22:03,269 --> 00:22:06,371 "Move it up like that," "Raise your eyes," etcetera. 329 00:22:06,372 --> 00:22:08,673 She would pop up into that right away. 330 00:22:08,674 --> 00:22:11,810 I was very happy posing. 331 00:22:11,811 --> 00:22:13,578 And I never had any problem 332 00:22:13,579 --> 00:22:16,047 thinking of what to do with my body. 333 00:22:16,048 --> 00:22:20,985 I could think of a thousand different poses that just came natural to me. 334 00:22:20,986 --> 00:22:23,588 Sometimes I would imagine 335 00:22:23,589 --> 00:22:26,558 the camera was my boyfriend. 336 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:30,195 And I would play to my boyfriend. 337 00:22:30,196 --> 00:22:34,566 All I do know is that when Bettie Page was announced 338 00:22:34,567 --> 00:22:37,469 as being the feature model 339 00:22:37,470 --> 00:22:40,171 of next Sunday's shoot, 340 00:22:40,172 --> 00:22:43,063 there was a big crowd. 341 00:22:45,678 --> 00:22:47,612 Did the guys in the camera clubs 342 00:22:47,613 --> 00:22:50,014 ask you out for dates a lot? 343 00:22:50,015 --> 00:22:51,182 No. 344 00:22:51,183 --> 00:22:53,852 Now I wouldn't date anybody who drank or smoke. 345 00:22:53,853 --> 00:22:58,756 I just don't like the taste of cigarettes on your breath, 346 00:22:58,757 --> 00:23:01,625 and I hate alcohol. 347 00:23:02,361 --> 00:23:05,730 One of the most interesting characters in this entire story 348 00:23:05,731 --> 00:23:07,799 was Richard Arbib, 349 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,201 one of her ex-boyfriends. 350 00:23:10,202 --> 00:23:15,273 He was a top designer of the '50s. 351 00:23:15,274 --> 00:23:20,543 Designed cars, watches, extremely well known designer. 352 00:23:24,717 --> 00:23:28,953 Richard had split up with his wife, 353 00:23:28,954 --> 00:23:30,455 and met Bettie, 354 00:23:30,456 --> 00:23:32,790 and they had a red hot romance, 355 00:23:32,791 --> 00:23:35,460 they were deeply in love. 356 00:23:35,461 --> 00:23:39,964 He took her in his two seater down to Florida. 357 00:23:39,965 --> 00:23:42,600 Well, we just decided we'd take off 358 00:23:42,601 --> 00:23:45,870 and go to Florida for three weeks. 359 00:23:45,871 --> 00:23:49,541 She wanted to have sex with me in the car and I said, 360 00:23:49,542 --> 00:23:52,577 "If you're going to do that, I've got to stop 'cause I'll go off the road." 361 00:23:52,578 --> 00:23:55,446 So she's going away at me, 362 00:23:55,447 --> 00:23:58,783 and all of a sudden there's a flashlight in the door, 363 00:23:58,784 --> 00:24:02,253 it was raining cats and dogs, there's a state trooper there. 364 00:24:02,254 --> 00:24:05,919 And I thought he was going to arrest us for having sex in the car. 365 00:24:07,192 --> 00:24:11,696 All he said was, "You all know you've got one tail light out." 366 00:24:11,697 --> 00:24:15,667 Bettie had a very normal sex life. 367 00:24:15,668 --> 00:24:19,637 She wasn't inhibited, she wasn't hung up in any way at all. 368 00:24:19,638 --> 00:24:23,007 She liked sex and she was very good at it. 369 00:24:23,008 --> 00:24:26,511 Arbib told me he designed a watch for Bettie. 370 00:24:26,512 --> 00:24:29,480 It was a custom made piece for Bettie Page. 371 00:24:29,481 --> 00:24:32,782 He was renowned for his watches. 372 00:24:33,919 --> 00:24:36,955 This was a unique one of a kind piece. 373 00:24:36,956 --> 00:24:42,527 He presented it to her and she wore it proudly. 374 00:24:42,528 --> 00:24:46,364 And for some reason, Richard decided that 375 00:24:46,365 --> 00:24:48,232 he was going to give it one more shot with his wife, 376 00:24:48,233 --> 00:24:50,802 and it didn't work out with his wife, 377 00:24:50,803 --> 00:24:52,937 and when he came back, Bettie was gone. 378 00:24:52,938 --> 00:24:57,240 And that was the regret of his life. 379 00:24:58,444 --> 00:25:02,480 All of the guys that I knew that met this woman, 380 00:25:02,481 --> 00:25:08,217 had this, "The one that got away" ennui about them. 381 00:25:09,321 --> 00:25:14,325 She wasn't just a pretty face with nothing behind it, she was not a facade. 382 00:25:14,326 --> 00:25:16,327 She had a high IQ. 383 00:25:16,328 --> 00:25:21,131 And had a great range of things that interested her. 384 00:25:23,569 --> 00:25:25,136 I used to make a lot of my clothes. 385 00:25:25,137 --> 00:25:28,773 I made all my bikinis, most of my lingerie. 386 00:25:28,774 --> 00:25:31,142 I enjoyed making them. 387 00:25:33,145 --> 00:25:36,547 Bettie used to design stuff. 388 00:25:36,548 --> 00:25:38,583 She could have made a fortune. 389 00:25:38,584 --> 00:25:42,453 'Cause she had an eye for it, she knew what was sexy. 390 00:25:42,454 --> 00:25:46,758 Bikinis were never heard of on the beaches in this country. 391 00:25:48,794 --> 00:25:50,895 Don't know what the wild waves are saying, 392 00:25:50,896 --> 00:25:54,032 but the gals are talking about the latest thing in swimming attire. 393 00:25:54,033 --> 00:25:57,135 A suit with a built in girdle. 394 00:25:57,136 --> 00:25:59,537 I made them real skimpy. 395 00:25:59,538 --> 00:26:02,270 It was considered very risqué. 396 00:26:04,610 --> 00:26:07,111 One of the jobs I had in New York 397 00:26:07,112 --> 00:26:09,814 was with a couple down in Greenwich Village. 398 00:26:09,815 --> 00:26:13,751 Well, they had me bring every one of my costumes, 399 00:26:13,752 --> 00:26:15,887 especially all my bikinis. 400 00:26:15,888 --> 00:26:20,486 And I wondered why they had me change costumes so many times. 401 00:26:22,294 --> 00:26:25,296 And then they had taken my designs 402 00:26:25,297 --> 00:26:27,331 from the pictures they'd took of me 403 00:26:27,332 --> 00:26:29,967 and had them manufactured under my name 404 00:26:29,968 --> 00:26:34,236 and selling them as "Bettie Page's Bikinis" now. 405 00:26:35,841 --> 00:26:41,144 I should have sued them or something, but I didn't do anything about it. 406 00:26:51,423 --> 00:26:55,493 The first bona fide commercial work I did 407 00:26:55,494 --> 00:26:59,363 was for Robert Harrison's magazines. 408 00:26:59,364 --> 00:27:01,599 You know, he had five or six girly books. 409 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,871 Wink, Titter, Flirt, Beauty Parade. 410 00:27:06,872 --> 00:27:09,307 They had four or five writers in the back room 411 00:27:09,308 --> 00:27:13,211 that made up all kinds of crazy things we had to act out. 412 00:27:13,212 --> 00:27:16,948 But one thing I didn't like and none of the other girls did either, 413 00:27:16,949 --> 00:27:22,019 Robert Harrison insisted that our breasts be taped. 414 00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:24,689 He was a nut about the cleavage. 415 00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:27,191 I'd have to hold my breasts together, 416 00:27:27,192 --> 00:27:30,828 and they put a great big thick two-inches wide tape, 417 00:27:30,829 --> 00:27:32,830 all the way across. 418 00:27:32,831 --> 00:27:34,732 I hated that. 419 00:27:34,733 --> 00:27:37,769 Mr. Harrison said, "Bettie, I want you to represent 420 00:27:37,770 --> 00:27:40,171 my magazines at the artists ball." 421 00:27:40,172 --> 00:27:43,741 They have a contest for the best costume. 422 00:27:43,742 --> 00:27:46,511 And guess what I was wearing? 423 00:27:46,512 --> 00:27:51,082 Just two telephone dials, one over this breast, one over this, 424 00:27:51,083 --> 00:27:53,284 and a suggestion box, 425 00:27:53,285 --> 00:27:55,419 and black net stockings up to the waist, 426 00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:59,390 and that was it, and I won it that year, 427 00:27:59,391 --> 00:28:02,126 and I got a whole set of Revere kitchen ware. 428 00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:12,403 Estes Kefauver of the Senate crime investigation fame 429 00:28:12,404 --> 00:28:14,572 brings the Democratic political pot to boil 430 00:28:14,573 --> 00:28:18,101 by announcing his candidacy for the presidential nomination. 431 00:28:19,011 --> 00:28:21,579 Senator Estes Kefauver. 432 00:28:21,580 --> 00:28:23,381 He's from my home state, you know. 433 00:28:23,382 --> 00:28:26,617 He was trying to drum up votes, 434 00:28:26,618 --> 00:28:28,653 and get the public on his side, 435 00:28:28,654 --> 00:28:33,391 by going after juvenile delinquency and pornography. 436 00:28:33,392 --> 00:28:37,461 What I expected, having served in World War II, 437 00:28:37,462 --> 00:28:41,199 which I thought was a fight for democracy and liberation, 438 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,301 what I expected after World War II was 439 00:28:43,302 --> 00:28:46,804 something like what I perceived as the "Roaring '20s" was like 440 00:28:46,805 --> 00:28:49,605 after World War I, a huge celebration. 441 00:28:50,976 --> 00:28:54,311 And what we actually got was repression. 442 00:28:56,081 --> 00:28:58,950 Repression on several fronts, 443 00:28:58,951 --> 00:29:01,586 it was social and sexual and political. 444 00:29:01,587 --> 00:29:04,989 Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? 445 00:29:04,990 --> 00:29:07,625 The thing that the American people can do 446 00:29:07,626 --> 00:29:12,196 is to be vigilant, day and night. 447 00:29:12,197 --> 00:29:15,733 To make sure they don't have communists 448 00:29:15,734 --> 00:29:20,037 teaching the sons and daughters of America. 449 00:29:20,038 --> 00:29:23,274 We have an image of the fifties as a time when everything was placid 450 00:29:23,275 --> 00:29:26,744 and everybody lived in a sort of Ozzie and Harriet life, 451 00:29:26,745 --> 00:29:29,947 but going on at the same time in the culture 452 00:29:29,948 --> 00:29:32,617 was an enormous amount of fear 453 00:29:32,618 --> 00:29:35,386 of infiltration of new things 454 00:29:35,387 --> 00:29:38,089 that were going to undermine and infect the culture, 455 00:29:38,090 --> 00:29:41,492 and make the youth of America delinquents, 456 00:29:41,493 --> 00:29:43,327 as the term that had been invented. 457 00:29:43,328 --> 00:29:45,796 And a lot of it focused on pornography. 458 00:29:45,797 --> 00:29:48,199 The peddling of obscene books, 459 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,568 a furtive and despicable occupation 460 00:29:50,569 --> 00:29:52,470 has become a lucrative sideline 461 00:29:52,471 --> 00:29:55,373 for unscrupulous shopkeepers in some high school neighborhoods. 462 00:29:55,374 --> 00:29:58,009 People basically, I think, felt that anything 463 00:29:58,010 --> 00:30:00,011 that got people sexually excited was a bad thing. 464 00:30:00,012 --> 00:30:03,711 I mean, even to talk about sex in the 1950s was a taboo. 465 00:30:04,583 --> 00:30:08,352 The Postmaster General had a very visible campaign 466 00:30:08,353 --> 00:30:11,689 of trying to suppress the use of the mails 467 00:30:11,690 --> 00:30:14,091 to deliver sexually explicit materials. 468 00:30:14,092 --> 00:30:16,427 Postal inspectors could open your mail, 469 00:30:16,428 --> 00:30:17,728 they could confiscate it, 470 00:30:17,729 --> 00:30:20,031 they could come and do raids on your premises 471 00:30:20,032 --> 00:30:21,899 to keep you from mailing material at another time. 472 00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:24,001 Of course they could turn you over to the prosecution. 473 00:30:24,002 --> 00:30:29,373 So they had a great deal of power at their disposal. 474 00:30:29,374 --> 00:30:33,611 Anything that would be perceived as being lewd, 475 00:30:33,612 --> 00:30:36,047 a term pretty broad, 476 00:30:36,048 --> 00:30:38,482 could be treated as a crime 477 00:30:38,483 --> 00:30:40,318 if you circulated it through the mail. 478 00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:43,821 And certainly nudity alone was considered enough to be obscene 479 00:30:43,822 --> 00:30:46,918 by the standards of the authorities at the time. 480 00:30:47,859 --> 00:30:51,629 I don't even believe God disapproves of nudity, 481 00:30:51,630 --> 00:30:54,398 after all, he put Adam and Eve 482 00:30:54,399 --> 00:30:58,166 in the Garden of Eden naked as jaybirds. 483 00:31:00,105 --> 00:31:02,807 As a part of posing for the camera club, 484 00:31:02,808 --> 00:31:05,076 most of it was in bikinis, 485 00:31:05,077 --> 00:31:06,911 but sometimes there would be 486 00:31:06,912 --> 00:31:09,212 a few shots topless. 487 00:31:23,829 --> 00:31:26,464 Bettie Page was very sexual, 488 00:31:26,465 --> 00:31:29,356 but in a very free and innocent kind of way. 489 00:31:30,435 --> 00:31:31,969 She's gorgeous 490 00:31:31,970 --> 00:31:35,940 and she makes you feel good. 491 00:31:35,941 --> 00:31:39,043 She makes direct eye contact with you, 492 00:31:39,044 --> 00:31:42,413 and it's engaging. 493 00:31:42,414 --> 00:31:44,148 I've seen her work 494 00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:47,651 with some very shy newcomers, 495 00:31:47,652 --> 00:31:50,087 and actually help them out. 496 00:31:50,088 --> 00:31:53,391 Bettie would suggest something, "How 'bout this one, 497 00:31:53,392 --> 00:31:55,292 how 'bout this one, how 'bout this one?" 498 00:31:55,293 --> 00:31:57,854 And that way she would get him out of his shell. 499 00:32:04,269 --> 00:32:08,239 Bettie is sexuality in it's sparkly, cleanest, 500 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,905 most beautiful, charming, smilingest. 501 00:32:15,147 --> 00:32:17,048 But there was some discussion 502 00:32:17,049 --> 00:32:20,751 about the kind of women 503 00:32:20,752 --> 00:32:22,353 that would do camera club shoots 504 00:32:22,354 --> 00:32:26,190 because primarily they were nude, totally nude shoots. 505 00:32:26,191 --> 00:32:28,259 And Bettie would say, 506 00:32:28,260 --> 00:32:31,162 "Whenever there was a shoot that I was attending, 507 00:32:31,163 --> 00:32:35,795 where things started getting sketchy, I got out of there." 508 00:32:37,102 --> 00:32:40,604 Everybody would have liked to date Bettie Page, 509 00:32:40,605 --> 00:32:43,541 but nobody made the moves. 510 00:32:43,542 --> 00:32:47,244 Are there any boyfriends of Bettie that you know of, 511 00:32:47,245 --> 00:32:49,380 that you've talked to her that you know of? 512 00:32:49,381 --> 00:32:52,116 I talked to a lot of guys, 513 00:32:52,117 --> 00:32:56,487 not only photographers, but her lovers. 514 00:32:56,488 --> 00:32:58,355 Charles West was one of them. 515 00:32:58,356 --> 00:33:01,987 Apparently met her through a camera club. 516 00:33:02,894 --> 00:33:08,365 He did a notorious series of photographs with Bettie. 517 00:33:08,366 --> 00:33:11,869 One day, a Saturday, she and I were walking 518 00:33:11,870 --> 00:33:14,038 down 5th Ave. at Rockefeller Center. 519 00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:17,808 She wore that same tight translucent sweater. 520 00:33:17,809 --> 00:33:22,580 We were on our way to a shooting session in the Time Life building. 521 00:33:22,581 --> 00:33:26,283 You should have seen the swiveling heads, both male and female. 522 00:33:26,284 --> 00:33:28,319 My God, wasn't she beautiful. 523 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,287 Gorgeous. 524 00:33:30,288 --> 00:33:33,090 My photos were taken very privately, 525 00:33:33,091 --> 00:33:36,127 I never intended for any of them to be published. 526 00:33:36,128 --> 00:33:38,996 God gave her a lovely body and she knew it. 527 00:33:38,997 --> 00:33:41,991 As a model, she used it to full advantage. 528 00:33:46,905 --> 00:33:50,875 Her body was absolutely without blemish, 529 00:33:50,876 --> 00:33:54,245 and everything 530 00:33:54,246 --> 00:33:56,705 exactly right in proportion. 531 00:33:57,382 --> 00:34:00,417 And that was the same with her face, and you put the two together, 532 00:34:00,418 --> 00:34:03,651 and you had just about the perfect woman. 533 00:34:04,523 --> 00:34:08,381 There was also a very sheer pair of white panties. 534 00:34:10,395 --> 00:34:15,425 Also, super long black opera length gloves. 535 00:34:18,370 --> 00:34:20,337 She was absolutely pure, 536 00:34:20,338 --> 00:34:22,506 plain and natural. 537 00:34:22,507 --> 00:34:25,543 And of course she shows up that way in her photographs. 538 00:34:25,544 --> 00:34:29,641 And I just think you see the real girl there. 539 00:34:31,082 --> 00:34:34,018 No one ever dominated Betts, 540 00:34:34,019 --> 00:34:36,220 either physically or psychologically. 541 00:34:36,221 --> 00:34:40,113 She was her own person and she never could have mistreated anyone. 542 00:34:43,962 --> 00:34:47,798 Yes, she and I made love. 543 00:34:47,799 --> 00:34:50,267 And she was marvelous. 544 00:34:50,268 --> 00:34:54,305 She's an extraordinary creature. 545 00:34:54,306 --> 00:34:57,038 My memories of Betts are ever present. 546 00:35:29,641 --> 00:35:34,211 Nudity back then was, was very unusual. 547 00:35:34,212 --> 00:35:35,946 That was '52, 548 00:35:35,947 --> 00:35:39,783 a time of restrictive sexuality. 549 00:35:39,784 --> 00:35:42,186 You talked to your friends in college even, 550 00:35:42,187 --> 00:35:45,689 and the fellow who had been sexually active 551 00:35:45,690 --> 00:35:47,825 was the unusual guy. 552 00:35:47,826 --> 00:35:49,960 Know when and how 553 00:35:49,961 --> 00:35:51,662 you're going to say "no". 554 00:35:51,663 --> 00:35:55,332 Take the case of the girl who finds herself in this situation. 555 00:35:55,333 --> 00:35:57,635 Say, is anybody else hungry? 556 00:35:57,636 --> 00:36:02,234 How about it you two, couldn't we go someplace for something to eat? 557 00:36:04,342 --> 00:36:07,778 I was on my way into the army at that time, 558 00:36:07,779 --> 00:36:09,747 on my way to Korea eventually. 559 00:36:09,748 --> 00:36:14,482 So I thought it was a time to have a little bit of fun. 560 00:36:15,954 --> 00:36:19,551 We were upstate New York on a farm. 561 00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:24,461 But maybe this have been your first opportunity 562 00:36:24,462 --> 00:36:26,797 to see a woman without much clothes on? 563 00:36:26,798 --> 00:36:29,099 Ah, that's not a bad guess. 564 00:36:32,904 --> 00:36:36,507 The photographers all sort of gravitated to Bettie Page. 565 00:36:36,508 --> 00:36:38,876 You were drawn as if by a magnet. 566 00:36:38,877 --> 00:36:41,211 She lit up the place. 567 00:36:41,212 --> 00:36:43,113 I don't think anybody can really explain 568 00:36:43,114 --> 00:36:47,651 why some people have that kind of charisma. 569 00:36:47,652 --> 00:36:51,488 It was kind of a revolution for me really 570 00:36:51,489 --> 00:36:55,916 to see that openness. 571 00:36:56,695 --> 00:36:59,029 Somebody went to the police about it, 572 00:36:59,030 --> 00:37:02,366 some old fogy no doubt, went to the police and said 573 00:37:02,367 --> 00:37:05,135 we were running around in the woods nude out there. 574 00:37:05,136 --> 00:37:07,104 And here came a squad car. 575 00:37:07,105 --> 00:37:11,141 Calling car 6 and 7 eighths, car 6 and 7 eighths. 576 00:37:11,142 --> 00:37:13,243 Here they are coming with drawn guns, 577 00:37:13,244 --> 00:37:16,146 coming on a bunch of photographers. 578 00:37:16,147 --> 00:37:19,350 I mean, what were we going to do? 579 00:37:19,351 --> 00:37:22,953 I mean, this is absolute nonsense. 580 00:37:22,954 --> 00:37:26,990 And they said, "Also, take the pictures out of your cameras." 581 00:37:26,991 --> 00:37:29,193 I opened the back of the camera. 582 00:37:29,194 --> 00:37:31,462 The counter, which may have been, 583 00:37:31,463 --> 00:37:33,630 say on film number 5, 584 00:37:33,631 --> 00:37:35,666 well, I snapped back to zero. 585 00:37:35,667 --> 00:37:38,902 I immediately closed the camera and thought to myself, 586 00:37:38,903 --> 00:37:42,539 why not try to keep 587 00:37:42,540 --> 00:37:45,042 what films I have in the camera. 588 00:37:45,043 --> 00:37:46,944 And I showed it to one of the deputies and I said, 589 00:37:46,945 --> 00:37:50,214 "Look, you see, the counter's on zero, 590 00:37:50,215 --> 00:37:52,850 but to tell you the truth I have a new roll in there, 591 00:37:52,851 --> 00:37:55,185 I'd rather not expose it by opening the back." 592 00:37:55,186 --> 00:37:57,855 I said, "Okay if I keep it that way?" 593 00:37:57,856 --> 00:37:59,089 And he said sure. 594 00:37:59,090 --> 00:38:02,826 But I didn't come upon the idea of holding onto those photos 595 00:38:02,827 --> 00:38:05,320 until I saw it snap back to zero. 596 00:38:34,993 --> 00:38:36,994 The charming thing was that 597 00:38:36,995 --> 00:38:40,130 a little kitten wandered by. 598 00:38:40,131 --> 00:38:42,466 And she picked it up, 599 00:38:42,467 --> 00:38:44,368 and she held it to her breast. 600 00:38:44,369 --> 00:38:47,271 I found that exquisite. 601 00:38:47,272 --> 00:38:52,166 And I did take a picture of that but half of it was destroyed. 602 00:39:02,420 --> 00:39:06,123 One of the deputies said something, 603 00:39:06,124 --> 00:39:08,425 which was rather nasty, 604 00:39:08,426 --> 00:39:11,094 but I do remember her saying, 605 00:39:11,095 --> 00:39:14,264 "Don't you talk to me like that. 606 00:39:14,265 --> 00:39:16,500 I won't have it." 607 00:39:16,501 --> 00:39:17,968 And I think she had more courage 608 00:39:17,969 --> 00:39:21,338 than the dozen and a half photographers that were there. 609 00:39:21,339 --> 00:39:24,408 They decided to charge the guys for disturbing the peace, 610 00:39:24,409 --> 00:39:27,678 and the girls for indecent exposure. 611 00:39:27,679 --> 00:39:30,714 She was just terribly offended by it. 612 00:39:30,715 --> 00:39:33,083 Bettie says, "I'm not indecent. 613 00:39:33,084 --> 00:39:35,986 I will not plead guilty to that." 614 00:39:35,987 --> 00:39:37,988 And we sat there in the anteroom, 615 00:39:37,989 --> 00:39:40,914 outside the court room for five hours. 616 00:39:52,337 --> 00:39:56,840 Bettie demanded that this release form be rewritten 617 00:39:56,841 --> 00:40:00,699 so that it didn't say "indecent exposure". 618 00:40:05,216 --> 00:40:07,084 And the judge warned us 619 00:40:07,085 --> 00:40:09,186 never to come in his county again. 620 00:40:10,822 --> 00:40:14,791 Her being put in jail because she was posing, 621 00:40:14,792 --> 00:40:17,394 making a living, gave her pause for thought. 622 00:40:17,395 --> 00:40:20,130 She really had never considered that it could happen to her. 623 00:40:20,131 --> 00:40:23,800 And in fact, it was an alarm to wake her up to the fact 624 00:40:23,801 --> 00:40:27,170 that a lot of people did not like what she was doing. 625 00:40:30,708 --> 00:40:35,045 On Friday, we shall continue the investigation of the relationship 626 00:40:35,046 --> 00:40:38,847 of pornographic materials to delinquency. 627 00:40:39,517 --> 00:40:41,418 In the 1950s, 628 00:40:41,419 --> 00:40:43,854 the repression was coming from the government. 629 00:40:43,855 --> 00:40:47,190 And it also involved Kefauver and his investigations, 630 00:40:47,191 --> 00:40:49,693 in terms of pornography and crime. 631 00:40:49,694 --> 00:40:51,995 You couldn't sell in many places 632 00:40:51,996 --> 00:40:57,167 a magazine that had the kinds of nudity 633 00:40:57,168 --> 00:41:00,404 that we see in a modern Playboy. 634 00:41:00,405 --> 00:41:02,873 That was considered going too far. 635 00:41:02,874 --> 00:41:06,677 I never had any bad feelings 636 00:41:06,678 --> 00:41:08,378 about posing in the nude 637 00:41:08,379 --> 00:41:11,782 or semi-nude outfits. 638 00:41:11,783 --> 00:41:15,152 I found out I could make more money posing in two hours 639 00:41:15,153 --> 00:41:18,147 than I'd make all week as a secretary. 640 00:41:19,390 --> 00:41:21,792 All the girls who worked for Robert Harrison 641 00:41:21,793 --> 00:41:25,362 would end up posing for Irving Klaw. 642 00:41:25,363 --> 00:41:29,199 He had a big business, he and his sister Paula, 643 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,502 selling movie star pictures before they got into, locally, 644 00:41:32,503 --> 00:41:35,606 shooting models in New York. 645 00:41:35,607 --> 00:41:38,642 And one of the cameramen brought her in and said, 646 00:41:38,643 --> 00:41:42,112 she's a super model, she works well, 647 00:41:42,113 --> 00:41:44,948 and she's a love, give her a shot. 648 00:41:44,949 --> 00:41:47,284 And we did. You should have seen her then. 649 00:41:47,285 --> 00:41:49,886 The long black hair and always smiling, 650 00:41:49,887 --> 00:41:54,087 giggling and whatever, she was so great to work with. 651 00:41:55,293 --> 00:41:57,661 She loved posing. 652 00:42:03,534 --> 00:42:06,970 Irving Klaw, he was a real sweet fella. 653 00:42:06,971 --> 00:42:09,840 He was a big fat chubby guy. 654 00:42:09,841 --> 00:42:12,542 And he was sort of short and he was almost bald. 655 00:42:12,543 --> 00:42:15,278 But he was so nice. 656 00:42:15,279 --> 00:42:18,582 He never made any passes at the women or anything. 657 00:42:18,583 --> 00:42:21,785 They would bring food there, sandwiches and all for us. 658 00:42:21,786 --> 00:42:24,621 They were always very generous about that. 659 00:42:24,622 --> 00:42:28,492 He got some of the ideas from some of the customers. 660 00:42:28,493 --> 00:42:31,128 And he would sort of talk to me about, 661 00:42:31,129 --> 00:42:33,296 "What do you think of this and what do you think of that", 662 00:42:33,297 --> 00:42:36,495 and between the two of us we'd figure it out. 663 00:42:38,369 --> 00:42:40,570 In some of her earliest Irving Klaw photos, 664 00:42:40,571 --> 00:42:42,205 Bettie looked a little gawky. 665 00:42:42,206 --> 00:42:44,708 But Klaw would give her a set of these photos. 666 00:42:44,709 --> 00:42:48,145 She could summarize what she was doing right 667 00:42:48,146 --> 00:42:49,513 and what she was doing wrong, 668 00:42:49,514 --> 00:42:52,644 and I think she became a much better model. 669 00:42:53,351 --> 00:42:55,886 She liked being in front of the camera. 670 00:42:55,887 --> 00:42:58,055 She enjoyed her body. 671 00:42:58,056 --> 00:42:59,823 She liked the way she looked. 672 00:42:59,824 --> 00:43:01,491 She liked her hair. 673 00:43:01,492 --> 00:43:04,122 She enjoyed herself. 674 00:43:05,263 --> 00:43:07,497 She never cried about anything... 675 00:43:07,498 --> 00:43:09,666 "It's too tight, '"'It's too loose," 676 00:43:09,667 --> 00:43:11,768 "Don't do that, " or anything. 677 00:43:11,769 --> 00:43:14,771 She was just a super lady to work with. 678 00:43:14,772 --> 00:43:19,910 Irving said I was his most famous model that he ever had, 679 00:43:19,911 --> 00:43:23,940 and he had some 1,500 pictures of me going. 680 00:43:25,149 --> 00:43:27,744 A lot of them to service men. 681 00:43:28,820 --> 00:43:31,788 We made this set of pictures, we'd advertise it, 682 00:43:31,789 --> 00:43:35,358 and we noticed the increase in sales. 683 00:43:35,359 --> 00:43:38,095 One of the biggest sellers 684 00:43:38,096 --> 00:43:39,696 is a picture of me wearing 685 00:43:39,697 --> 00:43:42,999 my little leopard-skin bikini, and I'm looking real mean, 686 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,837 holding this whip with one foot up on a stool 687 00:43:46,838 --> 00:43:50,073 and a cigarette dangling out the side of my mouth. 688 00:43:50,074 --> 00:43:52,142 And the teenagers. 689 00:43:52,143 --> 00:43:55,846 Irving said that's their favorite picture of me now. 690 00:43:55,847 --> 00:43:57,714 You know, I never smoked. 691 00:43:59,016 --> 00:44:00,751 I hate cigarettes. 692 00:44:00,752 --> 00:44:05,322 Well, I shot stills but there was more money into making films 693 00:44:05,323 --> 00:44:08,225 so we started with the 16mm, 694 00:44:08,226 --> 00:44:10,060 because that was very popular at that time. 695 00:44:20,104 --> 00:44:23,306 Well, she's a drama queen from a golden age 696 00:44:23,307 --> 00:44:25,776 Talking about the curves of Bettie Page 697 00:44:25,777 --> 00:44:28,445 Flinging through the pages though, I just can't wait 698 00:44:28,446 --> 00:44:30,714 She's the kind of woman that I want to date 699 00:44:30,715 --> 00:44:33,216 Oh, Bettie, Bettie, Bettie, Bettie 700 00:44:33,217 --> 00:44:35,418 Oh, Bettie, uh-huh-huh 701 00:44:35,419 --> 00:44:37,921 Oh, Bettie, Bettie, Bettie, Bettie 702 00:44:37,922 --> 00:44:40,357 Oh, Bettie, yeah 703 00:44:40,358 --> 00:44:42,826 I'm gonna run to you, girl, I'm on the rampage 704 00:44:42,827 --> 00:44:46,025 Just want Bettie, Bettie Page, yeah! 705 00:44:58,509 --> 00:45:00,577 Seven inch heels, 706 00:45:00,578 --> 00:45:03,947 one pair, that he kept for me only, 707 00:45:03,948 --> 00:45:05,916 that fitted me just fine that I could wiggle around, 708 00:45:05,917 --> 00:45:08,418 and move around, and kick around in those. 709 00:45:08,419 --> 00:45:11,922 Yeah, Bettie could walk great in high heels, unlike most girls. 710 00:45:11,923 --> 00:45:14,724 Most girls, they could walk in high heels, 711 00:45:14,725 --> 00:45:17,561 some of them, but they didn't look natural. 712 00:45:17,562 --> 00:45:19,129 Bettie, she could move in 'em just like, 713 00:45:19,130 --> 00:45:22,499 just like she was in moccasins. 714 00:45:28,206 --> 00:45:32,609 My brother would set it up and I would direct, 715 00:45:32,610 --> 00:45:34,477 and I worked the 16mm. 716 00:45:36,180 --> 00:45:38,682 Teaserama is a complete, 717 00:45:38,683 --> 00:45:40,483 all new burlesque show, 718 00:45:40,484 --> 00:45:43,253 filmed in beautiful new Eastman Color. 719 00:45:43,254 --> 00:45:47,920 Teaserama features the world's most beautiful, exotic girls. 720 00:45:49,460 --> 00:45:52,596 Tempest Storm is the girl with a 40-plus bust, 721 00:45:52,597 --> 00:45:55,332 who goes 3D two better! 722 00:45:55,333 --> 00:46:00,337 So big, we had to use wide screen to film Teaserama. 723 00:46:00,338 --> 00:46:05,508 Bettie Page, the nation's top pinup queen. 724 00:46:05,509 --> 00:46:10,346 There's sexy seconds to every minute in Teaserama. 725 00:46:11,916 --> 00:46:17,185 In one of them starring Tempest Storm, I played her maid. 726 00:46:19,857 --> 00:46:21,958 And I also introduced the acts 727 00:46:21,959 --> 00:46:24,793 wearing my bikinis and other costumes. 728 00:46:29,834 --> 00:46:33,303 And then I did a little dance number. 729 00:46:33,304 --> 00:46:36,172 It was a nothing tap dance I made up 730 00:46:36,173 --> 00:46:40,744 within a half an hour before the movie was to be shot. 731 00:46:40,745 --> 00:46:44,514 There was no sex in those movies that we shot. 732 00:46:44,515 --> 00:46:46,849 It was just fun. 733 00:46:48,452 --> 00:46:51,688 Irving Klaw would pay me $150 734 00:46:51,689 --> 00:46:53,523 every time I did one of these movies. 735 00:46:53,524 --> 00:46:57,761 And I would take the money and go to visit my mother in Pittsburgh, 736 00:46:57,762 --> 00:46:59,763 or my brothers in Nashville, 737 00:46:59,764 --> 00:47:02,564 or my sister in Coral Gables. 738 00:47:07,471 --> 00:47:11,474 Bettie happened to be in Miami on a little vacation. 739 00:47:11,475 --> 00:47:13,610 And she gave me a call. 740 00:47:13,611 --> 00:47:15,745 And she said she was a New York model. 741 00:47:15,746 --> 00:47:18,281 And I said, "Oh," and I was very impressed. 742 00:47:18,282 --> 00:47:20,517 I posed for Bunny 743 00:47:20,518 --> 00:47:24,321 in Florida in the spring of 1954. 744 00:47:24,322 --> 00:47:27,857 She had just started out as a photographer, 745 00:47:27,858 --> 00:47:30,026 she used to be a pinup model. 746 00:47:30,027 --> 00:47:32,729 I said, "You do pinup modeling?" 747 00:47:32,730 --> 00:47:34,464 And she says, "I do nudes, too." 748 00:47:34,465 --> 00:47:37,968 And when I heard that she did nudes, I was really excited 749 00:47:37,969 --> 00:47:39,936 because I had never photographed 750 00:47:39,937 --> 00:47:42,205 a professional nude model before. 751 00:47:42,206 --> 00:47:46,872 So I told her to come on over, I would use her sight unseen. 752 00:47:48,379 --> 00:47:51,281 Bettie was so perfect in every way. 753 00:47:51,282 --> 00:47:55,986 It would be hard for anybody to take a bad picture of Bettie. 754 00:47:55,987 --> 00:47:57,587 Because she was a woman, 755 00:47:57,588 --> 00:48:01,591 I felt more comfortable posing in the nude for Bunny. 756 00:48:01,592 --> 00:48:04,894 And we'd go out there about 7:00 in the morning 757 00:48:04,895 --> 00:48:09,332 before anybody came on the beaches and do our shooting then. 758 00:48:13,871 --> 00:48:17,741 We worked so well together because she caught on 759 00:48:17,742 --> 00:48:20,110 to what I was trying to get out of her. 760 00:48:20,111 --> 00:48:24,214 And she just played like she was a teenager in front of the camera, 761 00:48:24,215 --> 00:48:27,017 and followed every direction I gave her. 762 00:48:27,018 --> 00:48:28,551 And that was a thrill too, 763 00:48:28,552 --> 00:48:33,946 because I had not worked with somebody that professional before. 764 00:48:34,091 --> 00:48:37,327 You knew she was trying to look her very best. 765 00:48:37,328 --> 00:48:39,696 She would work on her tan 766 00:48:39,697 --> 00:48:42,866 and sunbathe the nude for a certain time everyday 767 00:48:42,867 --> 00:48:45,861 so that her skin would be so glorious. 768 00:48:46,604 --> 00:48:50,473 Bettie had a different torso than most girls. 769 00:48:50,474 --> 00:48:53,176 Her bone structure there, 770 00:48:53,177 --> 00:48:54,677 close to her waistline, 771 00:48:54,678 --> 00:48:58,415 went way in to a very tiny waist. 772 00:48:58,416 --> 00:49:02,118 And there are very few girls that are built like that. 773 00:49:02,119 --> 00:49:05,822 I was 36-24-37. 774 00:49:05,823 --> 00:49:09,859 I worked out at the health club three times a week. 775 00:49:09,860 --> 00:49:12,128 I've always liked to exercise. 776 00:49:12,129 --> 00:49:16,124 I wanted to keep in shape for my modeling. 777 00:49:17,601 --> 00:49:20,970 She lied to me about her age. 778 00:49:20,971 --> 00:49:24,674 She told me she was 24 when she posed for me but she was much older. 779 00:49:24,675 --> 00:49:26,940 I think that she was 32. 780 00:49:29,780 --> 00:49:33,450 We shot pictures at Kiddie Land Park. 781 00:49:33,451 --> 00:49:35,285 And I put her in a bikini 782 00:49:35,286 --> 00:49:37,420 and shot her on the merry-go-round 783 00:49:37,421 --> 00:49:39,489 and all these stupid rides. 784 00:49:39,490 --> 00:49:42,292 And she, she had a ball, you know. 785 00:49:42,293 --> 00:49:45,462 We had to go before they opened up at 10:00 786 00:49:45,463 --> 00:49:50,100 because I was getting worried with the briefness of the bathing suits. 787 00:49:50,101 --> 00:49:54,471 I was a little scared and I thought, "Bettie, we might get arrested. 788 00:49:54,472 --> 00:49:56,473 How do you feel about that?" 789 00:49:56,474 --> 00:49:59,876 And he says, "Oh, I wouldn't want to, but you know. 790 00:49:59,877 --> 00:50:01,478 What are we going to do?" 791 00:50:01,479 --> 00:50:04,614 So we just took our chances. 792 00:50:04,615 --> 00:50:08,246 So they're very sensual pictures. 793 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,545 Very sexy. 794 00:50:17,995 --> 00:50:21,131 We went out on the boat and it was late in the afternoon, 795 00:50:21,132 --> 00:50:24,567 and the sun was already getting low. 796 00:50:24,568 --> 00:50:28,238 But that made for good shadowing of Bettie's body 797 00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,940 for some beautiful nudes on the boat. 798 00:50:30,941 --> 00:50:34,110 And she actually caught a fish while I was shooting her. 799 00:50:34,111 --> 00:50:36,246 It was unbelievable. 800 00:50:36,247 --> 00:50:38,882 I had never seen anybody catch a fish so fast. 801 00:50:38,883 --> 00:50:40,950 We must have been in good waters. 802 00:50:40,951 --> 00:50:44,854 But that picture that you see of Bettie holding the fish up. 803 00:50:44,855 --> 00:50:46,688 That was for real. 804 00:50:48,125 --> 00:50:50,426 While we were shooting some pinups on the beach one day, 805 00:50:50,427 --> 00:50:53,930 I asked Bettie, "Are you afraid of wild animals?" 806 00:50:56,867 --> 00:50:59,802 I had seen too many Tarzan movies, I think. 807 00:50:59,803 --> 00:51:04,140 She set up a session for me up in Boca Raton 808 00:51:04,141 --> 00:51:08,238 at Little Africa to pose with the animals. 809 00:51:10,214 --> 00:51:12,882 When you come into Africa USA, 810 00:51:12,883 --> 00:51:15,952 they had a greeter at the gate, 811 00:51:15,953 --> 00:51:17,854 dressed all up like a native. 812 00:51:17,855 --> 00:51:20,557 I said, "Would you like to take some pictures with my model?" 813 00:51:20,558 --> 00:51:23,483 He said, "Sure." He was happy about that. 814 00:51:24,261 --> 00:51:26,896 I was very fond of my one-piece outfit 815 00:51:26,897 --> 00:51:30,033 that I made with the scallops and high bottoms. 816 00:51:30,034 --> 00:51:32,068 I was dressed just like a cheetah. 817 00:51:32,069 --> 00:51:34,304 There wasn't much to the bottom of it, 818 00:51:34,305 --> 00:51:38,508 but maybe that was the most alluring part of it. 819 00:51:38,509 --> 00:51:40,810 I was very proud of that design. 820 00:51:44,815 --> 00:51:48,351 The pictures that sold the most were with two cheetahs. 821 00:51:48,352 --> 00:51:50,086 Beautiful animals. 822 00:51:50,087 --> 00:51:53,790 They had been sick the night before 823 00:51:53,791 --> 00:51:56,059 and they were in a bad temper. 824 00:51:56,060 --> 00:51:59,293 I was afraid to be around 'em. 825 00:52:00,130 --> 00:52:04,667 The trainer said, "Please, don't let go of that chain, Bettie, 826 00:52:04,668 --> 00:52:06,302 because if they run, 827 00:52:06,303 --> 00:52:09,297 they run 55 miles and hour and they'll be gone." 828 00:52:10,407 --> 00:52:12,709 She kept control, 829 00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:14,975 and we got great pictures. 830 00:52:18,048 --> 00:52:20,049 All my life I had worshiped 831 00:52:20,050 --> 00:52:23,386 these pinup girls on the calendars, and I thought, 832 00:52:23,387 --> 00:52:26,889 "I'd love to shoot a calendar of someone as beautiful as Bettie." 833 00:52:26,890 --> 00:52:30,793 And I thought, the holiday season will be coming up soon. 834 00:52:30,794 --> 00:52:35,064 And I had this little white Christmas Tree. 835 00:52:35,065 --> 00:52:37,700 And I had her pose, 836 00:52:37,701 --> 00:52:40,570 kneeling on a white shag rug. 837 00:52:40,571 --> 00:52:43,506 I didn't know that Bunny Yeager 838 00:52:43,507 --> 00:52:48,578 was going to send pictures to Mr. Hefner for Playboy Magazine. 839 00:52:48,579 --> 00:52:51,614 She was Miss January of 1955, 840 00:52:51,615 --> 00:52:55,451 but Bettie had a fame that kind of coincided 841 00:52:55,452 --> 00:52:59,622 and predated her appearance in Playboy. 842 00:52:59,623 --> 00:53:02,125 You know, that little Santa Claus hat 843 00:53:02,126 --> 00:53:04,494 and I'm winking, and I'm sitting on my knees 844 00:53:04,495 --> 00:53:10,133 with a little Christmas Tree ball covering "you know where". 845 00:53:13,871 --> 00:53:18,002 She had a very unique look and also a very unique attitude. 846 00:53:25,249 --> 00:53:27,050 Back in New York, 847 00:53:27,051 --> 00:53:28,918 you couldn't work for Irving 848 00:53:28,919 --> 00:53:32,722 without doing about an hour or an hour and a half of bondage, 849 00:53:32,723 --> 00:53:34,988 or you didn't get paid. 850 00:53:44,568 --> 00:53:47,870 Bondage, I'm noted for being 851 00:53:47,871 --> 00:53:50,940 the number one bondage queen, they call me. 852 00:54:03,654 --> 00:54:06,189 Most of the work came 853 00:54:06,190 --> 00:54:09,158 from requests he would get in the mail, 854 00:54:09,159 --> 00:54:11,461 from doctors, lawyers, 855 00:54:11,462 --> 00:54:13,262 businessmen, 856 00:54:13,263 --> 00:54:16,899 men up in high society even, 857 00:54:16,900 --> 00:54:19,791 wanted all of these things. 858 00:54:22,373 --> 00:54:25,508 One was a big official in the government 859 00:54:25,509 --> 00:54:28,711 and one guy was a big lawyer. 860 00:54:28,712 --> 00:54:30,880 Are either of these guys still alive? 861 00:54:30,881 --> 00:54:32,749 No, I don't think so. 862 00:54:32,750 --> 00:54:34,851 So you care to say who they were? 863 00:54:34,852 --> 00:54:37,117 No. Promises. 864 00:54:38,021 --> 00:54:40,456 The guy came in with all the rubber outfits. 865 00:54:40,457 --> 00:54:42,291 And there was leather. 866 00:54:42,292 --> 00:54:45,161 There's a big leather fetish out there. 867 00:54:45,162 --> 00:54:48,164 Men wanted her with the boots on. 868 00:54:48,165 --> 00:54:52,399 Pay for it, bring the costumes, we'll do it. 869 00:54:53,537 --> 00:54:57,407 For some reason, men like to see girls, 870 00:54:57,408 --> 00:54:59,308 one spanking the other one. 871 00:54:59,309 --> 00:55:01,377 Why, I don't know. 872 00:55:01,378 --> 00:55:05,982 And they liked to see women helpless, tied up. 873 00:55:05,983 --> 00:55:08,749 I never thought it was anything strange. 874 00:55:10,287 --> 00:55:14,824 Bettie had not been exposed to this type of culture. 875 00:55:14,825 --> 00:55:18,127 She was instructed that this is what the job was. 876 00:55:18,128 --> 00:55:19,695 To her it was acting. 877 00:55:19,696 --> 00:55:23,166 Which she enjoyed doing, which is why her bondage stuff 878 00:55:23,167 --> 00:55:26,536 is just so terrific, because she's acting. 879 00:55:27,704 --> 00:55:30,800 She's making believe that she's terrified. 880 00:55:32,142 --> 00:55:34,544 For the most part, anybody in a bondage photograph is 881 00:55:34,545 --> 00:55:37,680 just going on like half-assed, hardly doing it. 882 00:55:37,681 --> 00:55:40,106 Bettie was acting. 883 00:55:51,995 --> 00:55:55,831 Paula, she was the only one that ever tied us up. 884 00:55:56,633 --> 00:55:59,335 She didn't hurt us, she was very careful about it. 885 00:55:59,336 --> 00:56:02,371 She felt safe with me being there. 886 00:56:02,372 --> 00:56:04,974 Don't hurt the babies, you know. 887 00:56:04,975 --> 00:56:09,312 Some of the pictures looked like I was really being hurt. 888 00:56:09,313 --> 00:56:13,716 There was only one time that I was ever frightened. 889 00:56:13,717 --> 00:56:18,588 Some guy, some lawyer I think he was, wanted me tied up. 890 00:56:18,589 --> 00:56:21,858 And my feet were off the ground about six inches. 891 00:56:21,859 --> 00:56:25,828 I thought my arm holes were going to pull out of the sockets. 892 00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:27,497 And I said, "Hurry up, it's hurting me." 893 00:56:27,498 --> 00:56:30,566 And they kept shooting me from all kinds of angles. 894 00:56:30,567 --> 00:56:33,603 And finally they let me down. 895 00:56:33,604 --> 00:56:37,607 And Irving later told me that those pictures sold more 896 00:56:37,608 --> 00:56:39,709 than any picture that he'd ever sold 897 00:56:39,710 --> 00:56:41,978 of movie stars than anybody else. 898 00:56:51,788 --> 00:56:55,157 About two months later... 899 00:56:56,093 --> 00:57:00,696 I was doing a little 16mm wrestling movie. 900 00:57:00,697 --> 00:57:02,932 I heard something pop. 901 00:57:02,933 --> 00:57:06,569 I couldn't straighten out my right knee at all. 902 00:57:06,570 --> 00:57:09,071 Finally, I called a doctor. 903 00:57:09,072 --> 00:57:12,341 He said, "It'll be about a six inch scar." 904 00:57:12,342 --> 00:57:16,974 He said, "You won't be able to do your pinup modeling anymore." 905 00:57:18,348 --> 00:57:21,851 I was lying in bed feeling very unhappy 906 00:57:21,852 --> 00:57:25,721 at the thought that I wouldn't be able to model anymore. 907 00:57:25,722 --> 00:57:29,258 And all of a sudden, I heard a man's voice 908 00:57:29,259 --> 00:57:34,063 just as loud and clear as you'd hear any human talk. 909 00:57:34,064 --> 00:57:39,035 He said, "Bettie, you can straighten out your knee. Try it." 910 00:57:39,036 --> 00:57:44,073 And within a couple of seconds I was able to straighten out my knee. 911 00:57:44,074 --> 00:57:48,706 I knew immediately it was the voice of God. 912 00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,471 She was the girl next door. 913 00:57:53,083 --> 00:57:58,721 Just so good, and went to church on Sunday, 914 00:57:58,722 --> 00:58:02,491 that women identified with, that they liked the idea 915 00:58:02,492 --> 00:58:04,560 that they could exude sexuality 916 00:58:04,561 --> 00:58:08,598 and not be thought of as a tramp, 917 00:58:08,599 --> 00:58:11,867 that she's playing a role, 918 00:58:11,868 --> 00:58:14,470 whether it be dominatrix 919 00:58:14,471 --> 00:58:16,138 or the girl next door, 920 00:58:16,139 --> 00:58:20,475 and it was never demeaning at any point whatsoever. 921 00:58:25,649 --> 00:58:28,317 The craziest request I ever had, 922 00:58:28,318 --> 00:58:31,287 this guy wanted me to pose 923 00:58:31,288 --> 00:58:33,889 in a black leather pony outfit 924 00:58:33,890 --> 00:58:36,926 that he sent to Irving and Paula. 925 00:58:36,927 --> 00:58:39,996 I had to get on all fours like a horse, 926 00:58:39,997 --> 00:58:43,232 and my head covered up with this hood on. 927 00:58:43,233 --> 00:58:46,736 I said, "Well, how would he even know who was under there at all?" 928 00:58:46,737 --> 00:58:49,639 You couldn't even see my face. 929 00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:53,209 We died laughing about it. 930 00:58:53,210 --> 00:58:55,277 And some we turned away. 931 00:58:55,278 --> 00:58:59,115 Well, there were no nudes, that's number one. 932 00:58:59,116 --> 00:59:03,119 If there were men in the pictures, it was pornographic. 933 00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:06,055 And we didn't want to sell anything that was pornographic. 934 00:59:27,077 --> 00:59:29,879 These two guys came to me and said, 935 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,647 "Bettie, we want you to testify against Irving Klaw as a pornographer." 936 00:59:34,418 --> 00:59:37,653 I said, "What are you talking about? Irving never even did nudes." 937 00:59:37,654 --> 00:59:40,856 They'd come in with search warrants. 938 00:59:40,857 --> 00:59:42,992 They took a bunch of stuff. 939 00:59:42,993 --> 00:59:46,929 They took a lot of the photographs and negatives of the models. 940 00:59:46,930 --> 00:59:51,600 They confiscated our mail and we were getting bad publicity. 941 00:59:57,841 --> 00:59:59,675 Repercussions from the New York hearings 942 00:59:59,676 --> 01:00:02,778 have been nationwide, with contempt and perjury citations 943 01:00:02,779 --> 01:00:05,281 indicated by the committee. 944 01:00:05,282 --> 01:00:07,483 Now there's supposed to be a young boy, 945 01:00:07,484 --> 01:00:11,854 I think he was 17 years old, somewhere in Florida. 946 01:00:11,855 --> 01:00:14,190 The Kefauver committee was blaming me 947 01:00:14,191 --> 01:00:16,592 for contributing to juvenile delinquency 948 01:00:16,593 --> 01:00:20,429 because this boy killed himself looking at one of my bondage pictures. 949 01:00:20,430 --> 01:00:23,526 What would I have to do with that? 950 01:00:24,201 --> 01:00:26,602 Sir, I direct your attention specifically 951 01:00:26,603 --> 01:00:30,272 to page 3 of this publication, showing a young lady trussed up. 952 01:00:30,273 --> 01:00:32,074 And ask you to look at that picture, 953 01:00:32,075 --> 01:00:35,111 with her arms tied behind her back, her mouth gagged. 954 01:00:35,112 --> 01:00:36,679 There is a definite connection 955 01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,049 between this sort of thing and his death. 956 01:00:41,818 --> 01:00:45,221 They made me come down to the courthouse, 957 01:00:45,222 --> 01:00:48,457 and they had me sit outside the courtroom 958 01:00:48,458 --> 01:00:51,486 while they had Irving on the stand. 959 01:00:52,496 --> 01:00:56,532 Mr. Chairman, our investigation reveals 960 01:00:56,533 --> 01:01:01,871 that Mr. Klaw is one of the largest distributors 961 01:01:01,872 --> 01:01:05,441 of obscene, lewd, and fetish photographs 962 01:01:05,442 --> 01:01:08,377 throughout the country by mail. 963 01:01:08,378 --> 01:01:11,547 I decline to answer 964 01:01:11,548 --> 01:01:15,751 under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution. 965 01:01:15,752 --> 01:01:20,389 Well, Mr. Klaw, I must warn you that 966 01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:22,892 I'll have you cited for contempt. 967 01:01:22,893 --> 01:01:25,027 Do you still refuse to answer? 968 01:01:25,028 --> 01:01:27,563 I decline to answer. 969 01:01:27,564 --> 01:01:31,066 Would that be sufficient or should I say it all the way through, Mr. Kefauver? 970 01:01:31,067 --> 01:01:33,135 We're not asking any quarter 971 01:01:33,136 --> 01:01:35,367 nor giving any quarter, Mr. Klaw. 972 01:01:36,506 --> 01:01:37,940 Those creeps. 973 01:01:37,941 --> 01:01:39,742 Ol' Kefauver and his committee. 974 01:01:39,743 --> 01:01:43,279 I told them, "I'm not testifying and lying about Irving Klaw." 975 01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,648 I said, "I don't care. You can't force me to do it." 976 01:01:45,649 --> 01:01:47,914 I said, "I won't do it." 977 01:01:52,455 --> 01:01:55,191 But we also went before the judge. 978 01:01:55,192 --> 01:01:58,594 And the judge said, "You want to keep your freedom, 979 01:01:58,595 --> 01:02:01,997 you have to destroy all the negatives." 980 01:02:01,998 --> 01:02:05,734 I said that was wrong. 981 01:02:05,735 --> 01:02:08,971 We have every right to do and print whatever we like. 982 01:02:08,972 --> 01:02:11,169 We're not hurting anybody. 983 01:02:11,808 --> 01:02:16,579 And so I was the one that was in charge of chucking it away. 984 01:02:16,580 --> 01:02:18,948 But I didn't. 985 01:02:20,317 --> 01:02:24,753 We did hide them, until we were sure that the courts 986 01:02:24,754 --> 01:02:26,522 would throw it out 987 01:02:26,523 --> 01:02:29,225 and agree that this was not pornography. 988 01:02:29,226 --> 01:02:33,662 I kept the ones I know I could sell, just the ones with Bettie. 989 01:02:33,663 --> 01:02:38,801 I knew one day these were going to be famous. 990 01:02:38,802 --> 01:02:42,371 She was able to sneak a few of mine away 991 01:02:42,372 --> 01:02:44,773 that they didn't know about. 992 01:02:44,774 --> 01:02:47,509 Nearly all three-fourths of his pictures 993 01:02:47,510 --> 01:02:50,346 that he had taken in his movie star photos and all, 994 01:02:50,347 --> 01:02:51,847 they were all burned. 995 01:02:51,848 --> 01:02:53,883 And it just ruined the poor man 996 01:02:53,884 --> 01:02:57,947 and put him in bad health, and he ended up dying. 997 01:03:01,892 --> 01:03:04,660 I always thought, live and let live. 998 01:03:04,661 --> 01:03:06,662 Let anybody do what they want to do 999 01:03:06,663 --> 01:03:09,431 as long as they're not hurting anybody else. 1000 01:03:09,432 --> 01:03:12,701 I still feel that way. 1001 01:03:12,702 --> 01:03:15,204 There was a lot of people in America 1002 01:03:15,205 --> 01:03:17,907 that would have considered what you were doing 1003 01:03:17,908 --> 01:03:19,708 to be nasty back in those days. 1004 01:03:19,709 --> 01:03:24,313 I never thought I was doing anything wrong. 1005 01:03:24,314 --> 01:03:28,013 I never even thought there was anything wrong about the bondage. 1006 01:03:30,053 --> 01:03:34,523 The only thing I regret in all of my modeling experience, 1007 01:03:34,524 --> 01:03:38,427 one time three camera clubs got together. 1008 01:03:38,428 --> 01:03:43,599 And they got me to drinking blackberry brandy, 1009 01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,402 it's very tasty, you know. 1010 01:03:46,403 --> 01:03:51,173 And I must have gotten drunk, the only time in my life I was drunk. 1011 01:03:51,174 --> 01:03:52,975 But I don't remember what happened, 1012 01:03:52,976 --> 01:03:54,677 I remember starting to pose for them 1013 01:03:54,678 --> 01:03:59,114 in my regular poses but never open poses. 1014 01:03:59,115 --> 01:04:01,850 And there were four or five shots. 1015 01:04:01,851 --> 01:04:04,386 And I was so disappointed in it. 1016 01:04:04,387 --> 01:04:06,522 That's one of the reasons I left New York, 1017 01:04:06,523 --> 01:04:10,916 was because of those pornographic pictures being sold on me. 1018 01:04:14,264 --> 01:04:18,367 I was 34 in 1957, 1019 01:04:18,368 --> 01:04:21,737 and I thought I was getting too old to model. 1020 01:04:21,738 --> 01:04:24,440 And that there were so many pictures of me around, 1021 01:04:24,441 --> 01:04:28,143 I thought the photographers were tired of shooting me. 1022 01:04:28,144 --> 01:04:33,015 And then too I'd had all that unhappy experience with the Kefauver committee. 1023 01:04:33,016 --> 01:04:36,408 So I just left everything. 1024 01:04:42,392 --> 01:04:45,928 She just disappeared and there was much mystique about her. 1025 01:04:45,929 --> 01:04:49,264 Nobody knew beyond that, 1026 01:04:49,265 --> 01:04:52,301 that their was a fascinating story about this woman, 1027 01:04:52,302 --> 01:04:57,206 who reached the peak of popularity in her profession and disappeared. 1028 01:04:57,207 --> 01:05:00,743 Over my years of research, I heard a lot of crazy rumors. 1029 01:05:00,744 --> 01:05:04,146 That she was slinging hash in Texas, 1030 01:05:04,147 --> 01:05:07,383 that she had married Lash LaRue, 1031 01:05:07,384 --> 01:05:10,586 that she had moved to England and married a duke. 1032 01:05:10,587 --> 01:05:14,723 That the mob had rubbed her out because of a photo shoot gone bad. 1033 01:05:14,724 --> 01:05:17,626 That she had passed out literature 1034 01:05:17,627 --> 01:05:20,829 in the Chicago O'Hare airport for Billy Graham. 1035 01:05:20,830 --> 01:05:23,562 That was the only one that was true. 1036 01:05:24,701 --> 01:05:27,436 The whole Bettie Page phenomenon, 1037 01:05:27,437 --> 01:05:29,204 which is separate from the human being, 1038 01:05:29,205 --> 01:05:31,240 developed while she was simply off the scene, 1039 01:05:31,241 --> 01:05:34,610 and she was not really aware of it. 1040 01:05:34,611 --> 01:05:37,246 It still amazes me 1041 01:05:37,247 --> 01:05:39,615 after 40 years, 1042 01:05:39,616 --> 01:05:42,217 as popular as my pictures are now, 1043 01:05:42,218 --> 01:05:44,620 especially with young people. 1044 01:05:44,621 --> 01:05:48,357 Most of the boys say they learned about me 1045 01:05:48,358 --> 01:05:53,095 from their fathers' girly magazines that they found in the attic, 1046 01:05:53,096 --> 01:05:57,132 or prowling through their fathers' dresser drawers and things like that. 1047 01:05:58,802 --> 01:06:03,872 And they claim that I opened up the sexual revolution. 1048 01:06:05,341 --> 01:06:08,544 The first time that I ever saw Bettie Page 1049 01:06:08,545 --> 01:06:13,015 in any of this material, I mean, I immediately recognized her 1050 01:06:13,016 --> 01:06:17,453 as someone that had the visual power 1051 01:06:17,454 --> 01:06:21,813 to provoke something inside. 1052 01:06:23,526 --> 01:06:26,495 I was thinking that I was doing something 1053 01:06:26,496 --> 01:06:31,233 that was part of the modernist movement of painting 1054 01:06:31,234 --> 01:06:35,571 and that was to take a taboo photograph, 1055 01:06:35,572 --> 01:06:39,074 blow it up bigger than life-size in a beautiful oil painting, 1056 01:06:39,075 --> 01:06:41,910 and put it in a high-end gallery. 1057 01:06:41,911 --> 01:06:45,514 Bettie Page really set the stage 1058 01:06:45,515 --> 01:06:48,584 for the vogue photographers 1059 01:06:48,585 --> 01:06:52,079 that came in the '70s and the '80s. 1060 01:06:54,124 --> 01:06:56,825 There's never been anyone like Bettie before. 1061 01:06:56,826 --> 01:06:59,161 Monroe had Harlow and Dietrich, 1062 01:06:59,162 --> 01:07:01,497 she had all those blond bombshells, 1063 01:07:01,498 --> 01:07:04,299 but Bettie, there was nothing like Bettie. 1064 01:07:04,300 --> 01:07:07,569 She's the first icon of her nature. 1065 01:07:07,570 --> 01:07:09,705 And feminism has changed, 1066 01:07:09,706 --> 01:07:12,107 so women are actually using sexuality 1067 01:07:12,108 --> 01:07:14,610 in a different way, they're more accepting of it. 1068 01:07:14,611 --> 01:07:16,712 I would paint a few pictures 1069 01:07:16,713 --> 01:07:19,707 and then I would see them appear in front of me. 1070 01:07:20,884 --> 01:07:23,352 And the girls would start showing up dressed like her. 1071 01:07:23,353 --> 01:07:24,786 Either they had purple hair, 1072 01:07:24,787 --> 01:07:27,356 but they'd have the Bettie Page bangs, they'd be tattooed. 1073 01:07:27,357 --> 01:07:31,093 It'd be a form of Bettie, but different. 1074 01:07:31,094 --> 01:07:33,162 Bettie meant something to them. 1075 01:07:33,163 --> 01:07:38,728 So I kept painting Bettie for them. 1076 01:07:43,139 --> 01:07:45,674 The fetishistic outfits that she wore, 1077 01:07:45,675 --> 01:07:48,210 I mean, those are dreams to paint. 1078 01:07:48,211 --> 01:07:51,446 You know, the seam stockings, the garter belts, 1079 01:07:51,447 --> 01:07:55,417 the snub-nosed stilettos, and that hair. 1080 01:07:55,418 --> 01:07:58,687 It's a lot of fun to paint those things. 1081 01:07:58,688 --> 01:08:02,925 Her attitude, her eyes, the steam that rises from them. 1082 01:08:02,926 --> 01:08:04,927 That's the most important thing to me. 1083 01:08:04,928 --> 01:08:08,964 She makes it accessible that anybody can be having this fun, 1084 01:08:08,965 --> 01:08:11,333 you're not going to go to hell for it. 1085 01:08:13,169 --> 01:08:16,805 When AIDS came out as the huge plague, 1086 01:08:16,806 --> 01:08:21,043 and anybody who had sex could get it and die this horrible death, 1087 01:08:21,044 --> 01:08:25,380 I think that people really identify with Bettie as fantasy 1088 01:08:25,381 --> 01:08:28,584 instead of the actual sex act, 1089 01:08:28,585 --> 01:08:32,421 so it was just a matter of survival. 1090 01:08:33,756 --> 01:08:37,292 I could see that Bettie was getting more popular 1091 01:08:37,293 --> 01:08:39,595 in so many other directions. 1092 01:08:39,596 --> 01:08:43,432 And Dave Stevens' the Rocketeer happened. 1093 01:08:43,433 --> 01:08:45,534 I came across a full page photograph 1094 01:08:45,535 --> 01:08:47,669 of her standing in water 1095 01:08:47,670 --> 01:08:49,838 in a little bikini that she made 1096 01:08:49,839 --> 01:08:52,841 and just was knocked out, totally. 1097 01:08:52,842 --> 01:08:57,246 I remember thinking, this has got to be the most attractive, 1098 01:08:57,247 --> 01:08:59,815 she just exuded health 1099 01:08:59,816 --> 01:09:04,482 and joy and everything else that's like so appealing. 1100 01:09:16,833 --> 01:09:21,670 Dave's foundation certainly led to the Betty Pages. 1101 01:09:22,472 --> 01:09:25,707 At the time, nobody had reprinted a picture of Bettie Page 1102 01:09:25,708 --> 01:09:28,633 in two or three decades. 1103 01:09:29,646 --> 01:09:33,348 The first issue of the Betty Pages sold out in two weeks. 1104 01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:34,950 But word filtered back immediately. 1105 01:09:34,951 --> 01:09:36,518 Can you do a reprint of this? 1106 01:09:36,519 --> 01:09:40,822 It sold out instantly on the newsstands, I had no idea. 1107 01:09:40,823 --> 01:09:43,325 And when I say newsstands, I mean comic book stores, 1108 01:09:43,326 --> 01:09:45,861 that was my only distribution outlet at the time. 1109 01:09:45,862 --> 01:09:48,430 But there was an audience waiting. 1110 01:09:48,431 --> 01:09:50,766 Thank you, Dave Stevens. 1111 01:09:50,767 --> 01:09:53,601 The readers already knew who she was. 1112 01:09:54,304 --> 01:09:56,972 Then Bettie really became bigger 1113 01:09:56,973 --> 01:09:59,274 In the fashion world: 1114 01:09:59,275 --> 01:10:01,310 Gaultier, Muggler, 1115 01:10:01,311 --> 01:10:03,412 the S&M world, through Madonna. 1116 01:10:03,413 --> 01:10:05,881 You held me down and tried to make me break 1117 01:10:05,882 --> 01:10:07,749 Express yourself, don't repress yourself♪ 1118 01:10:07,750 --> 01:10:11,153 Did I say something true? 1119 01:10:11,154 --> 01:10:14,556 Oops, I didn't know I couldn't talk about sex. 1120 01:10:14,557 --> 01:10:16,792 You just couldn't get around her, 1121 01:10:16,793 --> 01:10:19,628 she was a force to be reckoned with. 1122 01:10:19,629 --> 01:10:23,532 She just became part of the culture. 1123 01:10:23,533 --> 01:10:26,435 Bob Shultz and I started this club, 1124 01:10:26,436 --> 01:10:29,071 the "Bettie Scouts"... tongue and cheek title, 1125 01:10:29,072 --> 01:10:32,107 kind of line Boy Scouts of America, but Bettie Scouts of America... 1126 01:10:32,108 --> 01:10:33,942 'cause we spent a lot of time going around the country 1127 01:10:33,943 --> 01:10:36,011 scouting for Bettie Page. 1128 01:10:36,012 --> 01:10:37,279 And when we started it, 1129 01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:40,046 we did not know if Bettie was still alive. 1130 01:10:41,684 --> 01:10:44,286 My gut feeling was she had probably passed away, 1131 01:10:44,287 --> 01:10:47,055 'cause I couldn't understand how somebody could be under the radar 1132 01:10:47,056 --> 01:10:50,448 that many years, when people were actively looking for her. 1133 01:10:52,695 --> 01:10:55,831 I got a call from a reporter 1134 01:10:55,832 --> 01:10:58,967 in Nashville, Tennessee named Thomas Goldsmith. 1135 01:10:58,968 --> 01:11:03,605 I would give him credit with finding Bettie Page. 1136 01:11:03,606 --> 01:11:06,074 And he said, "Do you know where Bettie's at?" 1137 01:11:06,075 --> 01:11:08,210 And I said, "No, I'm just like all the rest 1138 01:11:08,211 --> 01:11:10,245 in the people in the country trying to figure out 1139 01:11:10,246 --> 01:11:12,247 what happened to Bettie Page." 1140 01:11:12,248 --> 01:11:15,517 He said, "Bettie Page is alive. 1141 01:11:15,518 --> 01:11:17,219 And I'm gonna give you a big clue. 1142 01:11:17,220 --> 01:11:21,256 She has a living brother in Nashville." 1143 01:11:21,257 --> 01:11:23,692 Within minutes, I called Jack Page. 1144 01:11:23,693 --> 01:11:27,429 I said, "If I write a letter to Bettie, 1145 01:11:27,430 --> 01:11:30,298 would you forward it to her?" 1146 01:11:30,299 --> 01:11:33,168 And I wrote the letter, I believe it was, April... 1147 01:11:33,169 --> 01:11:35,971 April, May, 1992. 1148 01:11:35,972 --> 01:11:39,741 I didn't hear anything 'til December of 1992. 1149 01:11:39,742 --> 01:11:41,076 And I could remember that, 1150 01:11:41,077 --> 01:11:44,146 that was one of the most excited days of my life. 1151 01:11:44,147 --> 01:11:46,982 I went to the mailbox and here's a letter, 1152 01:11:46,983 --> 01:11:51,012 and it says in the corner, "Bettie Page." 1153 01:11:52,121 --> 01:11:54,956 She used to write everything in this turquoise ink. 1154 01:11:54,957 --> 01:11:56,625 Very identifiable ink. 1155 01:11:56,626 --> 01:11:58,093 It's like her trademark. 1156 01:11:58,094 --> 01:12:01,062 And she was so flattered to have a fan club, 1157 01:12:01,063 --> 01:12:02,431 she couldn't believe that people 1158 01:12:02,432 --> 01:12:04,566 had any interest in her after all these years. 1159 01:12:04,567 --> 01:12:08,570 For about a year, we did this little relay of letters. 1160 01:12:08,571 --> 01:12:12,040 And then finally in August of 1999, 1161 01:12:12,041 --> 01:12:15,243 my wife and I drove out to California 1162 01:12:15,244 --> 01:12:17,946 and met Bettie face to face. 1163 01:12:17,947 --> 01:12:21,483 We spent a lot of time talking about the Bible, 1164 01:12:21,484 --> 01:12:23,251 because she loved the Bible. 1165 01:12:23,252 --> 01:12:27,155 And I enjoy reading the Bible too, so we just had a good old time. 1166 01:12:27,156 --> 01:12:28,957 And then to think, you know, 1167 01:12:28,958 --> 01:12:31,426 here I'm just a guy collecting old magazines 1168 01:12:31,427 --> 01:12:35,497 and kind of becomes infatuated with this pinup girl from the '50s, 1169 01:12:35,498 --> 01:12:37,365 and to think that this could materialize 1170 01:12:37,366 --> 01:12:43,004 to the point that I get to meet her, her family, her sisters, her brothers. 1171 01:12:43,005 --> 01:12:46,274 Now, did your family know that you were a pinup model? 1172 01:12:46,275 --> 01:12:48,677 They never said a word to me about it, 1173 01:12:48,678 --> 01:12:51,379 never commented about it and nether did my mother. 1174 01:12:51,380 --> 01:12:56,651 One time, I was looking in her closet when she was gone to work, 1175 01:12:56,652 --> 01:12:59,721 and I found a whole big stack 1176 01:12:59,722 --> 01:13:02,491 of Robert Harrison's pinup magazines, 1177 01:13:02,492 --> 01:13:04,593 with my pictures marked 1178 01:13:04,594 --> 01:13:07,696 and the pages turned down in it. 1179 01:13:07,697 --> 01:13:10,365 Never said a word to me, one way or another about it, 1180 01:13:10,366 --> 01:13:13,132 never even mentioned it and I didn't either. 1181 01:13:17,206 --> 01:13:21,576 She was living way out in the fringes of Los Angeles, 1182 01:13:21,577 --> 01:13:25,413 you went any further, there was no more humanity. 1183 01:13:25,414 --> 01:13:28,250 And she explained that she'd had some difficulties 1184 01:13:28,251 --> 01:13:31,586 and that she was on Social Security. 1185 01:13:32,855 --> 01:13:35,624 Now, when you walked away from the modeling career, 1186 01:13:35,625 --> 01:13:37,325 you never really looked back at it, did you? 1187 01:13:37,326 --> 01:13:39,427 I didn't want to be bothered. 1188 01:13:39,428 --> 01:13:43,999 I'd rather be incognito, like I am nowadays. 1189 01:13:47,169 --> 01:13:50,272 After I left New York, I went back to Florida, 1190 01:13:50,273 --> 01:13:54,809 and I just wanted to enjoy the sunshine and do something else. 1191 01:13:54,810 --> 01:13:58,647 I started up with my old boyfriend Armond Walterson 1192 01:13:58,648 --> 01:14:01,516 that I had dated in 1954 1193 01:14:01,517 --> 01:14:03,919 when I was in Florida posing for Bunny Yeager. 1194 01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,621 He was going with Margaret. 1195 01:14:06,622 --> 01:14:08,023 As soon as I called him up 1196 01:14:08,024 --> 01:14:09,958 he dropped Margaret like a hot potato 1197 01:14:09,959 --> 01:14:12,427 and started dating me. 1198 01:14:12,428 --> 01:14:15,263 Every Saturday night, we'd go to the drive in 1199 01:14:15,264 --> 01:14:17,632 and we would sit in the car and make love. 1200 01:14:17,633 --> 01:14:19,668 We didn't watch the movies half the time. 1201 01:14:21,037 --> 01:14:24,372 When I met him, he didn't even know how to kiss. 1202 01:14:24,373 --> 01:14:27,442 I taught him everything he knew. 1203 01:14:27,443 --> 01:14:30,645 He learned fast though. 1204 01:14:30,646 --> 01:14:33,348 Two months after the wedding, 1205 01:14:33,349 --> 01:14:36,217 I realized that I made a mistake. 1206 01:14:36,218 --> 01:14:39,454 All we had in common was movies, 1207 01:14:39,455 --> 01:14:42,255 sex, and hamburgers. 1208 01:14:43,492 --> 01:14:45,927 If ever I've been stupid about anything in my life 1209 01:14:45,928 --> 01:14:49,664 it's where men are concerned about marriage. 1210 01:14:49,665 --> 01:14:52,534 Here's what broke it all up. 1211 01:14:52,535 --> 01:14:54,736 This was the beginning of New Year's 1958. 1212 01:14:54,737 --> 01:14:57,639 We got into a big argument 1213 01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:00,375 because he wanted to go and get drunk with his buddies, 1214 01:15:00,376 --> 01:15:03,578 and I wanted to go dancing like I'd been in the habit of doing 1215 01:15:03,579 --> 01:15:05,513 on New Year's Eve, 1216 01:15:05,514 --> 01:15:09,918 so he left at about 20 minutes to 12. 1217 01:15:09,919 --> 01:15:12,116 And I went walking out White Street. 1218 01:15:15,324 --> 01:15:17,659 And I saw a little church over there, 1219 01:15:17,660 --> 01:15:20,362 and heard music, singing. 1220 01:15:20,363 --> 01:15:24,563 It had a white neon cross over the top of it. 1221 01:15:26,969 --> 01:15:30,205 And I just had to go, like somebody had me by the hand, 1222 01:15:30,206 --> 01:15:33,308 I had to cross the street and go in there, I'm telling you. 1223 01:15:33,309 --> 01:15:37,907 I knew it was the Lord, nobody would ever convince me it wasn't him. 1224 01:15:38,714 --> 01:15:41,650 I stood back there and cried about all my sins. 1225 01:15:41,651 --> 01:15:45,954 I thought God disapproved of me doing nudes, you know. 1226 01:15:45,955 --> 01:15:48,323 I didn't think anything about the fetish and the bondage 1227 01:15:48,324 --> 01:15:50,125 for Irving, but I had to do that. 1228 01:15:50,126 --> 01:15:53,395 But I thought maybe He looked down on me for posing in the nude. 1229 01:15:53,396 --> 01:15:56,498 That's what I was telling the pastor, and he said, 1230 01:15:56,499 --> 01:16:00,101 "Have you ever done anything as bad as the apostle Paul?" 1231 01:16:00,102 --> 01:16:02,070 I said, "What did he do?" 1232 01:16:02,071 --> 01:16:03,905 I didn't know the Bible. 1233 01:16:03,906 --> 01:16:06,374 He said, "Well, he had the Christians murdered. 1234 01:16:06,375 --> 01:16:08,343 Have you ever done anything that bad?" 1235 01:16:08,344 --> 01:16:10,478 I said, "No, of course not." 1236 01:16:10,479 --> 01:16:12,580 He said, "Well, God forgave him 1237 01:16:12,581 --> 01:16:15,016 and made him the greatest missionary of all time. 1238 01:16:15,017 --> 01:16:19,287 He can certainly forgive you for posing in the nude, don't you think?" 1239 01:16:19,288 --> 01:16:22,524 And I received the Lord Jesus as my savior 1240 01:16:22,525 --> 01:16:26,061 and I turned my life over to the Lord, 1241 01:16:26,062 --> 01:16:30,865 and went to Bible schools for three years. 1242 01:16:30,866 --> 01:16:32,467 They were very strict, you know. 1243 01:16:32,468 --> 01:16:35,336 I always loved dancing. 1244 01:16:35,337 --> 01:16:37,939 I couldn't even go dancing, couldn't even go to the movies. 1245 01:16:37,940 --> 01:16:40,141 The only movie I was allowed to attend 1246 01:16:40,142 --> 01:16:43,841 during those three years was The Ten Commandments. 1247 01:16:44,814 --> 01:16:46,448 I wanted to be a missionary. 1248 01:16:46,449 --> 01:16:48,183 I thought God wanted me to be a missionary. 1249 01:16:48,184 --> 01:16:52,053 But you know, when I graduated and I went to a mission board, 1250 01:16:52,054 --> 01:16:55,990 they would not take me because I had been divorced. 1251 01:16:55,991 --> 01:16:59,027 To some Christians, especially the fundamentalists, 1252 01:16:59,028 --> 01:17:03,091 being divorced is worse than having committed murder! 1253 01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:08,069 They got me to believe that I would be out of the will of God 1254 01:17:08,070 --> 01:17:09,971 if I didn't go back and lead my first husband 1255 01:17:09,972 --> 01:17:12,707 to the Lord and marry him again. 1256 01:17:12,708 --> 01:17:16,311 Well, I led him to the Lord and he prayed with me to receive Jesus 1257 01:17:16,312 --> 01:17:18,446 and I thought he was sincere 1258 01:17:18,447 --> 01:17:20,849 and I married him again. 1259 01:17:20,850 --> 01:17:24,085 One month I was in his house. 1260 01:17:24,086 --> 01:17:27,021 The man would not even have sex with me. 1261 01:17:27,022 --> 01:17:28,690 And I see him, I said, "What's the matter, Billy?" 1262 01:17:28,691 --> 01:17:31,126 He said, "Well, you're filthy. You've still got a venereal disease." 1263 01:17:31,127 --> 01:17:33,428 I said, "Where did you ever hear anything like that?" 1264 01:17:33,429 --> 01:17:35,096 He said, "Everybody knows it." 1265 01:17:35,097 --> 01:17:39,593 I said, "Everybody's a liar, I've never had a venereal disease in my life." 1266 01:17:40,436 --> 01:17:43,338 Well, do you know, he grabbed me by the throat, 1267 01:17:43,339 --> 01:17:45,073 I mean, he was choking me. 1268 01:17:45,074 --> 01:17:48,943 I was finally able to get his hands off enough to scream out loud, 1269 01:17:48,944 --> 01:17:51,880 "Billy, if you kill me, God will never forgive you!" 1270 01:17:51,881 --> 01:17:55,784 He let go, and he got up and went in his room. 1271 01:17:55,785 --> 01:17:58,119 The man almost choked me to death. 1272 01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:01,689 But that was the worst thing that ever happened to me. 1273 01:18:01,690 --> 01:18:04,251 I almost lost my life over it. 1274 01:18:06,228 --> 01:18:08,563 I had the thing annulled right away, 1275 01:18:08,564 --> 01:18:11,831 since it was never consummated sexually. 1276 01:18:12,935 --> 01:18:15,103 After I spent a year and a half 1277 01:18:15,104 --> 01:18:17,872 working on a masters degree at Peabody, 1278 01:18:17,873 --> 01:18:22,510 I just lacked four credits now, getting the masters, 1279 01:18:22,511 --> 01:18:25,280 and I just got tired of studying. 1280 01:18:25,281 --> 01:18:27,415 So I left Nashville. 1281 01:18:27,416 --> 01:18:33,220 I went back to Miami and I started going dancing again. 1282 01:18:34,924 --> 01:18:38,092 And one night I saw this handsome fella. 1283 01:18:38,093 --> 01:18:41,596 She didn't look like a model of any kind, you know. 1284 01:18:41,597 --> 01:18:45,200 She's just a healthy looking young lady. 1285 01:18:45,201 --> 01:18:47,802 Well, not so young, she was in her forties, 1286 01:18:47,803 --> 01:18:50,872 but just looked like a nice person. 1287 01:18:50,873 --> 01:18:53,842 So I went out on the floor and asked her to dance, 1288 01:18:53,843 --> 01:18:56,477 and she says, "Certainly, I'd love to dance with you." 1289 01:18:56,478 --> 01:19:00,215 So we danced and we danced, we danced all night. 1290 01:19:00,216 --> 01:19:03,084 She was the most unpretentious person 1291 01:19:03,085 --> 01:19:04,853 that I have ever met. 1292 01:19:04,854 --> 01:19:09,958 I called her the next day and we were inseparable. 1293 01:19:09,959 --> 01:19:11,926 He was divorced. 1294 01:19:11,927 --> 01:19:13,528 He says, "I have two boys and a girl." 1295 01:19:13,529 --> 01:19:16,796 I said, "Two boys and a girl, that's what I always wanted." 1296 01:19:17,666 --> 01:19:21,369 Well, I couldn't have children, I tried for years. 1297 01:19:21,370 --> 01:19:25,907 But I was attracted to Harry from the word "go". 1298 01:19:25,908 --> 01:19:30,111 I just wanted to be with him and to make love to him. 1299 01:19:30,112 --> 01:19:31,946 I didn't know a thing about her. 1300 01:19:31,947 --> 01:19:34,215 We went out on this pier, 1301 01:19:34,216 --> 01:19:37,785 and I was looking through the post cards 1302 01:19:37,786 --> 01:19:40,855 and I saw this post card and I looked at that post card, 1303 01:19:40,856 --> 01:19:43,758 and I looked over at her and I looked at the card again. 1304 01:19:43,759 --> 01:19:45,493 It was Bettie. 1305 01:19:45,494 --> 01:19:49,397 It says, "Wow! We alligators have such fun in Florida." 1306 01:19:52,434 --> 01:19:55,336 She told me that she modeled a lot. 1307 01:19:55,337 --> 01:19:58,673 And she told me she never posed nude. 1308 01:20:00,843 --> 01:20:04,279 It didn't make any difference to me. 1309 01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:06,381 The people on the beach, 1310 01:20:06,382 --> 01:20:08,783 their heads would turn and follow us, 1311 01:20:08,784 --> 01:20:12,745 not me of course, but they would follow us walking along the beach. 1312 01:20:13,355 --> 01:20:18,693 We got married on Valentine's Day 1967 1313 01:20:18,694 --> 01:20:24,432 with his three children as witnesses to the wedding. 1314 01:20:24,433 --> 01:20:27,435 I had a nice new home for Bettie 1315 01:20:27,436 --> 01:20:32,573 and the children, everything was set up perfect, you know. 1316 01:20:32,574 --> 01:20:35,476 And then we had an addition put on the house 1317 01:20:35,477 --> 01:20:37,478 with a cement roof on top, 1318 01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:41,516 and then I had a three foot wall around the top of it, 1319 01:20:41,517 --> 01:20:44,408 she'd sunbathe in the nude up there sometimes. 1320 01:20:45,220 --> 01:20:47,255 He was a hard worker. 1321 01:20:47,256 --> 01:20:49,390 Harry was a good provider, a good lover, 1322 01:20:49,391 --> 01:20:51,960 now, he was one of the best lovers I ever had in my life. 1323 01:20:51,961 --> 01:20:54,028 And he was very considerate of me, 1324 01:20:54,029 --> 01:20:57,398 always thinking of my pleasure before his own. 1325 01:20:57,399 --> 01:21:00,935 I'm not anymore, but I was a very good lover, 1326 01:21:00,936 --> 01:21:02,470 and she was a very good lover. 1327 01:21:02,471 --> 01:21:05,406 We enjoyed thrilling each other. 1328 01:21:05,407 --> 01:21:09,610 Oh, by the way, that leopard skin robe, you know. 1329 01:21:09,611 --> 01:21:11,913 She still had that. 1330 01:21:11,914 --> 01:21:16,384 And in the morning she'd put it on, and in the evening she'd put it on. 1331 01:21:16,385 --> 01:21:19,821 It just turned me wild when I saw her walking around with that thing on. 1332 01:21:22,024 --> 01:21:26,094 Well, the children were just as sweet and nice to me 1333 01:21:26,095 --> 01:21:29,364 during the months that I dated Harry. 1334 01:21:29,365 --> 01:21:34,335 But soon as I moved into the house, everything changed. 1335 01:21:34,336 --> 01:21:35,770 His ex-wife, 1336 01:21:35,771 --> 01:21:38,506 she was so jealous of me with the children, 1337 01:21:38,507 --> 01:21:42,010 and she called me up at 4:00 in the morning and cussed me out. 1338 01:21:42,011 --> 01:21:45,380 It was getting on my nerves, I wasn't getting any sleep, 1339 01:21:45,381 --> 01:21:47,081 and I was very unhappy. 1340 01:21:47,082 --> 01:21:50,284 So I stuck it out for five years. 1341 01:21:50,285 --> 01:21:52,453 I started losing my love for Harry 1342 01:21:52,454 --> 01:21:54,622 when he wouldn't make those children mind me 1343 01:21:54,623 --> 01:21:56,888 or do anything I asked them to do. 1344 01:21:59,561 --> 01:22:02,163 She wanted to start going to church again. 1345 01:22:02,164 --> 01:22:05,333 And the whole family went to church together. 1346 01:22:05,334 --> 01:22:10,705 We went Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday evening. 1347 01:22:10,706 --> 01:22:15,743 I mean, it got to be like sort of a fanatic thing, you know. 1348 01:22:15,744 --> 01:22:17,111 I could see it in her eyes. 1349 01:22:17,112 --> 01:22:20,314 We'd go to church and she'd blast out singing, 1350 01:22:20,315 --> 01:22:24,152 not boisterous or anything but real loud voice singing. 1351 01:22:24,153 --> 01:22:27,455 Tears came down her cheeks, 1352 01:22:27,456 --> 01:22:29,791 and she'd get real emotional. 1353 01:22:29,792 --> 01:22:32,560 She was so obsessed with things of the Lord. 1354 01:22:32,561 --> 01:22:35,363 Why should I stop her if... 1355 01:22:35,364 --> 01:22:38,066 if she wanted to go and serve God, 1356 01:22:38,067 --> 01:22:41,197 or the Lord, or be a missionary. 1357 01:22:42,971 --> 01:22:48,943 I got divorced on January 17, 1972, 1358 01:22:48,944 --> 01:22:50,845 then I went to Bible Town, 1359 01:22:50,846 --> 01:22:55,083 which is 70 miles up near Boca Raton, Florida. 1360 01:22:55,084 --> 01:22:58,519 While I was up there, I started imagining 1361 01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:01,823 that I was hearing somebody talking to me on my tape recorder, 1362 01:23:01,824 --> 01:23:04,992 and I thought I was really listening 1363 01:23:04,993 --> 01:23:08,096 to God and the angels and the devil. 1364 01:23:08,097 --> 01:23:10,832 I lost a lot of weight then, I wasn't eating 1365 01:23:10,833 --> 01:23:14,498 because they were keeping me awake talking all night. 1366 01:23:16,338 --> 01:23:21,198 It had built up in my mind so much that my mind snapped. 1367 01:23:22,878 --> 01:23:26,647 She had caused some kind of a disturbance. 1368 01:23:26,648 --> 01:23:28,649 The police called me 1369 01:23:28,650 --> 01:23:33,654 and asked me if I could come up and pick her up. 1370 01:23:33,655 --> 01:23:37,625 I put her out there in my, I think it was my bedroom, 1371 01:23:37,626 --> 01:23:40,495 and I slept on the couch at the time. 1372 01:23:40,496 --> 01:23:42,663 I thought I owed it to her. 1373 01:23:42,664 --> 01:23:44,899 What would happen if I kicked her out? 1374 01:23:44,900 --> 01:23:49,937 And the state of Florida in no way is good to mental illness. 1375 01:23:49,938 --> 01:23:53,641 And I tried to get her going in places 1376 01:23:53,642 --> 01:23:56,077 and they wouldn't bother with her. 1377 01:23:56,078 --> 01:23:59,313 She had lost it, there's no doubt about it. 1378 01:23:59,314 --> 01:24:02,517 Bettie called us into the living room, 1379 01:24:02,518 --> 01:24:05,386 me and my son Larry and Brad, 1380 01:24:05,387 --> 01:24:10,458 called us over by this picture of Jesus Christ, 1381 01:24:10,459 --> 01:24:12,894 with a knife in her hand. 1382 01:24:12,895 --> 01:24:14,962 She said, "If you take your eyes off him, 1383 01:24:14,963 --> 01:24:18,127 I'm going to cut your guts out." 1384 01:24:20,636 --> 01:24:22,970 Whoa, you know, here I was. 1385 01:24:22,971 --> 01:24:24,906 I could read Bettie pretty good 1386 01:24:24,907 --> 01:24:30,144 and I felt safe that she wasn't going to do it right then. 1387 01:24:30,145 --> 01:24:32,947 I said, "Bettie, I've got to go to the bathroom, 1388 01:24:32,948 --> 01:24:35,950 I've got to relieve myself real bad." 1389 01:24:35,951 --> 01:24:38,853 So I went back into the bedroom, 1390 01:24:38,854 --> 01:24:41,155 picked up the phone, 1391 01:24:41,156 --> 01:24:43,157 called the Hialeah Police. 1392 01:24:43,158 --> 01:24:45,560 I let the cop in the front door. 1393 01:24:45,561 --> 01:24:48,262 Bettie went peacefully, 1394 01:24:48,263 --> 01:24:50,790 with a blank look on her face. 1395 01:24:51,433 --> 01:24:54,602 I ended up having a nervous breakdown and hearing voices, 1396 01:24:54,603 --> 01:24:57,738 and had to go to the hospital because of it. 1397 01:24:57,739 --> 01:25:00,575 They took me to Jackson Memorial Hospital. 1398 01:25:00,576 --> 01:25:04,045 They have on the fifth floor a psychiatric ward. 1399 01:25:04,046 --> 01:25:06,981 I was just there two months. 1400 01:25:06,982 --> 01:25:10,651 They gave me this horrible thorazine. 1401 01:25:10,652 --> 01:25:15,256 I felt like I had sparks and things going in my head, 1402 01:25:15,257 --> 01:25:17,625 and you feel like you're going to die right after, 1403 01:25:17,626 --> 01:25:20,392 for an hour or two after you take the thorazine. 1404 01:25:21,964 --> 01:25:25,833 But it knocked the voices right out of me though. 1405 01:25:25,834 --> 01:25:30,170 She was completely medicated all the time. 1406 01:25:30,906 --> 01:25:33,407 Now, when she was getting treatment, 1407 01:25:33,408 --> 01:25:35,901 do you know if they gave her any shock treatment? 1408 01:25:37,079 --> 01:25:39,504 I think she had two. 1409 01:25:41,450 --> 01:25:48,483 Jimmy, one time he came up to the house after Bettie was with me awhile. 1410 01:25:49,458 --> 01:25:51,993 He said, "I'm gonna take Bettie back to California with me, 1411 01:25:51,994 --> 01:25:54,228 we're gonna get a place, we're gonna live together, 1412 01:25:54,229 --> 01:25:56,597 we're gonna get a house or something." 1413 01:25:56,598 --> 01:25:59,967 California, it's a very liberal state, 1414 01:25:59,968 --> 01:26:03,826 and their mental facilities are the best in the world. 1415 01:26:05,140 --> 01:26:08,709 Jimmy and I were close when we were growing up. 1416 01:26:08,710 --> 01:26:10,711 I didn't have any money hardly. 1417 01:26:10,712 --> 01:26:13,580 I had just enough to get to California at the time. 1418 01:26:14,950 --> 01:26:18,786 Jimmy was supposed to meet her in California, 1419 01:26:18,787 --> 01:26:21,422 didn't show up. 1420 01:26:21,423 --> 01:26:24,121 That's why she got in trouble. 1421 01:26:27,629 --> 01:26:31,666 She was trying to get rent receipts from her landlord. 1422 01:26:31,667 --> 01:26:34,235 She was hearing voices, 1423 01:26:34,236 --> 01:26:37,138 I guess telling her to do some pretty awful things. 1424 01:26:37,139 --> 01:26:40,908 And she thought it was the devil speaking to her. 1425 01:26:40,909 --> 01:26:42,343 And she did tell me, 1426 01:26:42,344 --> 01:26:46,213 "I had a knife and I was upset with my landlady, 1427 01:26:46,214 --> 01:26:48,916 and I wrestled her to the ground and I straddled her, 1428 01:26:48,917 --> 01:26:51,752 and I told her that I was going to cut her up." 1429 01:26:51,753 --> 01:26:53,654 The lady did not die. 1430 01:26:53,655 --> 01:26:57,725 The lady got cut pretty severally on her hand. 1431 01:26:57,726 --> 01:27:00,961 Bleeding, blood everywhere. 1432 01:27:00,962 --> 01:27:02,997 Obvious that the lady needed stitches. 1433 01:27:02,998 --> 01:27:07,034 She was stabbed like 20 or 30 times. 1434 01:27:07,035 --> 01:27:12,340 She pleaded insanity to this charge of "attempt to commit murder" 1435 01:27:12,341 --> 01:27:16,108 and this assault so they then put her away for ten years. 1436 01:27:20,415 --> 01:27:23,984 You talked to the psychiatrist, I think it was, 1437 01:27:23,985 --> 01:27:26,887 three times a week for half an hour. 1438 01:27:26,888 --> 01:27:31,826 And you went to groups, mostly group therapy as they call it. 1439 01:27:31,827 --> 01:27:33,928 You just talked about why 1440 01:27:33,929 --> 01:27:35,996 or what caused you to have your breakdown, 1441 01:27:35,997 --> 01:27:39,567 and I was put on something called Novane and Artane. 1442 01:27:39,568 --> 01:27:43,371 She had never hinted about any of the trouble with the law, 1443 01:27:43,372 --> 01:27:46,507 any of the mental institution years, any of that. 1444 01:27:46,508 --> 01:27:49,643 I didn't think it was something anybody would want to hear about. 1445 01:27:49,644 --> 01:27:52,308 And it was not anybody's business. 1446 01:27:53,115 --> 01:27:56,250 A lot of people still look down on you if you've had a nervous breakdown. 1447 01:27:56,251 --> 01:28:00,143 They still thinking like they did a hundred years ago about it. 1448 01:28:02,157 --> 01:28:04,291 Bettie's the one that paid the price, 1449 01:28:04,292 --> 01:28:07,561 spending 9 or 10 years at Patton State 1450 01:28:07,562 --> 01:28:10,430 in a horrible, horrible situation. 1451 01:28:11,466 --> 01:28:16,103 I learned that she was paranoid schizophrenic. 1452 01:28:16,104 --> 01:28:19,273 That's an enormous cross to bare. 1453 01:28:19,274 --> 01:28:23,577 And whereas she had her parents 1454 01:28:23,578 --> 01:28:27,314 to thank for her amazing good looks, 1455 01:28:27,315 --> 01:28:28,649 it was a mixed blessing 1456 01:28:28,650 --> 01:28:31,786 because her parents were also responsible 1457 01:28:31,787 --> 01:28:35,990 for this genetic predisposition 1458 01:28:35,991 --> 01:28:39,527 towards paranoid schizophrenia, 1459 01:28:39,528 --> 01:28:43,264 plus her mother didn't want her, 1460 01:28:43,265 --> 01:28:47,101 and her father molested her. 1461 01:28:47,102 --> 01:28:51,563 Those are heavy burdens to deal with. 1462 01:28:55,310 --> 01:28:58,279 She was probably one of the most strong willed people 1463 01:28:58,280 --> 01:28:59,713 anyone's ever going to meet. 1464 01:28:59,714 --> 01:29:02,850 And she'd admit that she had fallen down 1465 01:29:02,851 --> 01:29:05,519 but she was going to renew, 1466 01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:08,355 with great enthusiasm and optimism 1467 01:29:08,356 --> 01:29:10,458 that this time she would get it right. 1468 01:29:10,459 --> 01:29:15,296 I told her that anytime there's anything she needs, 1469 01:29:15,297 --> 01:29:17,331 that there are thousands of people 1470 01:29:17,332 --> 01:29:20,301 who would just do anything for her if they had the chance. 1471 01:29:20,302 --> 01:29:24,638 The one who really did the most for her was Dave Stevens, 1472 01:29:24,639 --> 01:29:27,274 to the point of she would call him to go out 1473 01:29:27,275 --> 01:29:30,411 and bring her food or take her to the doctor. 1474 01:29:30,412 --> 01:29:32,947 I took her into Tower Records 1475 01:29:32,948 --> 01:29:36,050 and I steered her around to the book section, 1476 01:29:36,051 --> 01:29:39,253 and there on an end cap of an aisle of books 1477 01:29:39,254 --> 01:29:42,590 was a display of nothing but Bettie Page books, 1478 01:29:42,591 --> 01:29:45,659 and she just stood there in amazement. 1479 01:29:45,660 --> 01:29:48,162 She gets so tickled when she sees some new book 1480 01:29:48,163 --> 01:29:52,700 with her picture on it or some... whatever product it is, 1481 01:29:52,701 --> 01:29:55,269 even if she's not getting any money for it. 1482 01:29:55,270 --> 01:30:00,374 Dave knew that Bettie had been Miss January 1955, 1483 01:30:00,375 --> 01:30:03,143 and he knew that Hef had never met Bettie Page 1484 01:30:03,144 --> 01:30:05,479 and suggested that they meet. 1485 01:30:05,480 --> 01:30:08,816 And he invited me to dinner at his home, 1486 01:30:08,817 --> 01:30:11,352 the most beautiful home I've ever been in in my life. 1487 01:30:11,353 --> 01:30:14,455 Looks like a big castle up in Beverly Hills. 1488 01:30:14,456 --> 01:30:16,790 So usually at the Playboy Mansion, 1489 01:30:16,791 --> 01:30:19,293 everyone has cameras, everything is being recorded. 1490 01:30:19,294 --> 01:30:22,263 But on this night, because of Bettie being so private, 1491 01:30:22,264 --> 01:30:25,098 so discreet, no cameras. 1492 01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:27,234 I liked Mr. Hefner. 1493 01:30:27,235 --> 01:30:29,670 He was a very nice, down to earth fella. 1494 01:30:29,671 --> 01:30:32,840 And he greeted us, Dave Stevens and I, 1495 01:30:32,841 --> 01:30:36,577 in his pajamas, now, a smoking jacket 1496 01:30:36,578 --> 01:30:40,948 and his purple, satin pajamas. 1497 01:30:40,949 --> 01:30:44,852 And Hef had arranged for a loan of a 35mm print of "The Rocketeer", 1498 01:30:44,853 --> 01:30:49,223 which was Dave Stevens' creation, from Disney. 1499 01:30:49,224 --> 01:30:51,525 And Bettie had never seen the film. 1500 01:30:51,526 --> 01:30:54,662 She wanted to see this film that was an homage 1501 01:30:54,663 --> 01:30:56,263 to her, inspired by her. 1502 01:30:56,264 --> 01:30:59,333 You're a sweet little headache 1503 01:30:59,334 --> 01:31:03,003 But you are lots of fun 1504 01:31:03,004 --> 01:31:05,205 I've a good mind to spank you... 1505 01:31:05,206 --> 01:31:07,107 There was an unauthorized film 1506 01:31:07,108 --> 01:31:12,813 made in 2005 called "The Notorious Bettie Page". 1507 01:31:12,814 --> 01:31:14,214 This is quite an elegant knot, 1508 01:31:14,215 --> 01:31:17,550 because the more the subject pulls the tighter the knot becomes. 1509 01:31:18,987 --> 01:31:22,923 She didn't like the word "Notorious" in the title. 1510 01:31:22,924 --> 01:31:25,826 And do you approve? 1511 01:31:25,827 --> 01:31:28,092 I believe in Jesus. 1512 01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:31,830 Well, of course you do, my dear. 1513 01:31:35,737 --> 01:31:38,071 Of course you do. 1514 01:31:39,674 --> 01:31:41,508 But all of a sudden, here's what you heard 1515 01:31:41,509 --> 01:31:43,577 from the back of the screening room. 1516 01:31:43,578 --> 01:31:47,448 "Lies, lies, lies! 1517 01:31:47,449 --> 01:31:51,218 L-I-E-S, lies! 1518 01:31:51,219 --> 01:31:54,782 Why don't you tell the truth?" 1519 01:31:56,992 --> 01:31:59,693 When she resurfaced here in California, 1520 01:31:59,694 --> 01:32:03,530 she was not being properly represented by anybody, 1521 01:32:03,531 --> 01:32:07,334 and a lot of people were exploiting her and taking advantage of her. 1522 01:32:07,335 --> 01:32:13,240 And I was able to put her in the hands of more appropriate business people, 1523 01:32:13,241 --> 01:32:15,009 legal people, 1524 01:32:15,010 --> 01:32:17,144 so that she had the right kind of representation 1525 01:32:17,145 --> 01:32:19,947 and somebody to look after her and take care of her. 1526 01:32:19,948 --> 01:32:22,216 And we've been very close ever since. 1527 01:32:22,217 --> 01:32:25,719 And I had a call from Mr. Hefner, who asked me 1528 01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:27,521 if I would help out a friend of his 1529 01:32:27,522 --> 01:32:30,324 and try to see that anything that was done 1530 01:32:30,325 --> 01:32:31,959 with Bettie's name and likeness 1531 01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:34,361 ultimately had her approval on it 1532 01:32:34,362 --> 01:32:38,132 and of course she would receive some type of compensation for it. 1533 01:32:38,133 --> 01:32:40,701 I made more money in very recent years 1534 01:32:40,702 --> 01:32:44,605 than I ever made during the seven years I was modeling back in the '50s. 1535 01:32:44,606 --> 01:32:47,775 Bettie was able to enjoy life more 1536 01:32:47,776 --> 01:32:51,512 because of what she could do in the later part of her life. 1537 01:32:59,220 --> 01:33:01,355 I think she had an incredible charm. 1538 01:33:01,356 --> 01:33:04,558 She had an incredible aura, or how you say it, charisma. 1539 01:33:04,559 --> 01:33:07,594 And I think a lot of models learned from her. 1540 01:33:07,595 --> 01:33:10,097 There's nothing intimidating about Bettie. 1541 01:33:10,098 --> 01:33:12,132 Women can appreciate her, men can appreciate her. 1542 01:33:12,133 --> 01:33:15,769 Most of them, you don't really remember the the person, 1543 01:33:15,770 --> 01:33:18,806 but her, you know, you say, "Oh yeah, that's Bettie Page." 1544 01:33:18,807 --> 01:33:21,642 She's also has had the keen sense of timing 1545 01:33:21,643 --> 01:33:25,376 to know exactly when not to appear, which is hard. 1546 01:33:26,181 --> 01:33:27,347 Go ahead, Bettie. 1547 01:33:27,348 --> 01:33:29,483 Hello every one of you. 1548 01:33:29,984 --> 01:33:32,820 Hi, Bettie. 1549 01:33:32,821 --> 01:33:34,455 Thank you very much. 1550 01:33:34,456 --> 01:33:36,824 Gee, sounds like a big mob. 1551 01:33:36,825 --> 01:33:38,225 It is a big mob. 1552 01:33:38,226 --> 01:33:42,096 Bettie, you have thrown the coolest opening in SoHo that I've seen. 1553 01:33:42,097 --> 01:33:45,899 I hope you like my book, I'm very pleased with it. 1554 01:33:45,900 --> 01:33:50,104 And we're just all super fans of yours, and we all wanted to say 1555 01:33:50,105 --> 01:33:52,940 congratulations, and three cheers to Bettie Page. 1556 01:33:58,279 --> 01:34:01,148 When I realized it was really big 1557 01:34:01,149 --> 01:34:06,520 is when I got the first Bettie Scouts of America fan letter from China. 1558 01:34:06,521 --> 01:34:09,256 I mean, it's literally all over the world. 1559 01:34:09,257 --> 01:34:11,425 New Zealand, Australia, all over Europe. 1560 01:34:11,426 --> 01:34:14,128 She's very very popular in Japan. 1561 01:34:14,129 --> 01:34:15,863 Very popular in England, 1562 01:34:15,864 --> 01:34:17,822 France and Germany. 1563 01:34:23,238 --> 01:34:26,440 Always I had been inspired by Bettie Page, 1564 01:34:26,441 --> 01:34:30,844 and then the pinups from the '50s and Bettie is the one, 1565 01:34:30,845 --> 01:34:33,247 the most extreme and most special one. 1566 01:34:33,248 --> 01:34:36,169 Bettie Page was way ahead of her time... 1567 01:34:52,133 --> 01:34:55,969 She influenced [Theiry mugler, gauliter]. 1568 01:34:55,970 --> 01:34:57,905 I mean, she did it with humor, 1569 01:34:57,906 --> 01:35:00,841 and I'll always work on my design in lingerie with humor. 1570 01:35:00,842 --> 01:35:02,476 I mean, it has to be sexy, 1571 01:35:02,477 --> 01:35:05,675 but it must have a small part of humor. 1572 01:35:06,714 --> 01:35:09,950 Bettie Page can be an example for women 1573 01:35:09,951 --> 01:35:15,721 to be beautiful, fun, sexy, and why not, intelligent. 1574 01:35:16,791 --> 01:35:19,393 Lisa, we got another postcard from your father. 1575 01:35:19,394 --> 01:35:21,662 Wish you were her. 1576 01:35:21,663 --> 01:35:23,597 How many of these things is he going to send me? 1577 01:35:23,598 --> 01:35:26,533 Why don't you love me? 1578 01:35:26,534 --> 01:35:28,902 Tell me baby why don't you love me 1579 01:35:28,903 --> 01:35:33,501 When I make me so damn easy to love. 1580 01:35:35,109 --> 01:35:36,910 You know, when I started seeing girls, 1581 01:35:36,911 --> 01:35:39,513 teenage, twenty, young girls, 1582 01:35:39,514 --> 01:35:42,508 with Bettie tattoos, I could not believe it. 1583 01:35:43,051 --> 01:35:45,619 And why don't you need me? 1584 01:35:45,620 --> 01:35:48,188 They're looking at her as a role model, 1585 01:35:48,189 --> 01:35:52,292 as this symbol of joyous sexual freedom. 1586 01:35:52,293 --> 01:35:54,862 Tell me, baby, why don't you love me 1587 01:35:54,863 --> 01:35:58,528 When I make me so damn easy to love? 1588 01:36:02,704 --> 01:36:04,004 It's a tribute to her. 1589 01:36:04,005 --> 01:36:06,573 These heartbreaking good looks, 1590 01:36:06,574 --> 01:36:09,977 the riveting appeal of her personality, 1591 01:36:09,978 --> 01:36:13,547 still to this day inspires the kind of response 1592 01:36:13,548 --> 01:36:16,450 that you get from artists, 1593 01:36:16,451 --> 01:36:19,553 fashion designers, 1594 01:36:19,554 --> 01:36:23,014 and the fandom, which we know is incredible. 1595 01:36:23,791 --> 01:36:27,027 The Bettie Page they love is very real. 1596 01:36:27,028 --> 01:36:32,132 In other words, I think that she had this kind of amoral attitude 1597 01:36:32,133 --> 01:36:36,570 towards sexuality and nudity, and even, you know, the bondage things. 1598 01:36:36,571 --> 01:36:42,075 She did not disgrace those who looked more sternly 1599 01:36:42,076 --> 01:36:46,246 upon portraits of sexuality. 1600 01:36:46,247 --> 01:36:51,482 I think she handled her phases of life with dignity. 1601 01:36:52,220 --> 01:36:56,990 The suggestion back then that sex was simply a natural, 1602 01:36:56,991 --> 01:37:01,428 normal part of life was very revolutionary, 1603 01:37:01,429 --> 01:37:08,496 and helped to change the values of our time. 1604 01:37:09,103 --> 01:37:13,200 I think that in that context Bettie Page is truly iconic. 1605 01:37:15,944 --> 01:37:18,545 If you think the images are wonderful, you have no idea. 1606 01:37:18,546 --> 01:37:21,114 She's a wonderful human being. 1607 01:37:21,115 --> 01:37:25,052 I never thought of myself as anything special or important. 1608 01:37:25,053 --> 01:37:28,455 I was just doing my job and enjoyed ever bit of it. 1609 01:37:30,425 --> 01:37:34,594 And I'm so thankful that you like my pictures 1610 01:37:34,595 --> 01:37:38,298 and that you care as much as you do about me, 1611 01:37:38,299 --> 01:37:42,999 and I wish you all the best, every one of you. 1612 01:38:04,525 --> 01:38:07,995 Well I've seen her face, in a magazine 1613 01:38:07,996 --> 01:38:09,696 She was looking real cute 1614 01:38:09,697 --> 01:38:11,465 Yea, without her jeans 1615 01:38:11,466 --> 01:38:13,166 She was staring back at me 1616 01:38:13,167 --> 01:38:14,601 With those cunning bad eyes 1617 01:38:14,602 --> 01:38:17,904 I got so turned on, it was hard to disguise 1618 01:38:17,905 --> 01:38:21,441 The 21 st Century Bettie Page 1619 01:38:21,442 --> 01:38:24,544 The 21 st Century Bettie Page 1620 01:38:24,545 --> 01:38:27,814 Well she's got a different look, it's from another page 1621 01:38:27,815 --> 01:38:32,117 She's a 21st Century Bettie Page 1622 01:38:37,725 --> 01:38:41,261 Well, I found her name from a mixed flat mate... 1623 01:38:41,262 --> 01:38:43,797 I am a huge fan, I love her. 1624 01:38:43,798 --> 01:38:45,966 We are the daughters of Bettie Page. 1625 01:38:45,967 --> 01:38:48,335 There's a little Bettie in all of us. 1626 01:38:48,336 --> 01:38:50,504 Everyone has a dark side to them 1627 01:38:50,505 --> 01:38:53,807 and she just showed her dark side the best way possible. 1628 01:38:53,808 --> 01:39:00,044 Wild, strong, liberated, yet extremely sexy woman. 1629 01:39:00,915 --> 01:39:02,783 - Hello? - Bettie? 1630 01:39:02,784 --> 01:39:04,284 Yes? 1631 01:39:04,285 --> 01:39:07,721 It's been so many years. This is Paula Klaw, how are you? 1632 01:39:07,722 --> 01:39:10,852 Very good. Gee, you sound like a young girl. 1633 01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:17,164 I like my privacy these days, I don't even give out interviews at all. 1634 01:39:17,165 --> 01:39:19,733 Yeah, I know. Good for you. 1635 01:39:19,734 --> 01:39:21,435 So what's your biggest seller now? 1636 01:39:21,436 --> 01:39:22,803 Bettie Page. 1637 01:39:22,804 --> 01:39:24,538 You're kidding, I don't believe you. 1638 01:39:24,539 --> 01:39:29,042 Do believe me. Everybody wants your pictures, Bettie. 1639 01:39:29,043 --> 01:39:33,747 I know, I can't get over the popularity. 1640 01:39:33,748 --> 01:39:36,783 Well, I'm sure you must have been doing something right. 1641 01:39:38,186 --> 01:39:41,021 I don't know, it amazes me, I'm telling you. 1642 01:39:41,022 --> 01:39:42,722 I don't understand it at all. 1643 01:39:42,723 --> 01:39:48,128 Well, what a delight to talk to you after so many years. 1644 01:39:48,129 --> 01:39:49,696 Okay. 1645 01:39:49,697 --> 01:39:51,465 - Okay. - All right. 1646 01:39:51,466 --> 01:39:53,667 Okay, sweetheart, it was a delight talking to you. 1647 01:39:53,668 --> 01:39:54,968 Same here, Paula. 1648 01:39:54,969 --> 01:39:56,736 Okay, love you, sweetheart. 1649 01:39:56,737 --> 01:39:57,838 You too. 1650 01:39:57,839 --> 01:40:00,040 And I think of you fondly and Irving too. 1651 01:40:00,041 --> 01:40:01,475 Thank you, darling. 1652 01:40:01,476 --> 01:40:04,144 - Bye bye. - Bye bye. 1653 01:40:04,145 --> 01:40:06,980 I didn't hardly recognize her voice, 1654 01:40:06,981 --> 01:40:08,782 it's even so much deeper. 1655 01:40:08,783 --> 01:40:12,085 I guess in the years your voice changes, 1656 01:40:12,086 --> 01:40:15,722 'cause she's got like a hoarseness to her voice. 1657 01:40:15,723 --> 01:40:18,158 But the same Bettie. 1658 01:40:18,159 --> 01:40:20,760 Love her, she sounds so great. 1659 01:40:21,929 --> 01:40:23,597 Oh Betty 1660 01:40:23,598 --> 01:40:27,134 Sweet and fun and kind of saucy 1661 01:40:27,135 --> 01:40:31,338 You can be a little bossy 1662 01:40:31,339 --> 01:40:33,140 But I don't care 1663 01:40:33,141 --> 01:40:36,676 Just wink at me in your underwear 1664 01:40:36,677 --> 01:40:38,478 Oh Betty 1665 01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:42,182 The world is not quite ready 1666 01:40:42,183 --> 01:40:45,819 For you and your satin teddy 1667 01:40:45,820 --> 01:40:47,787 But you're a star 1668 01:40:47,788 --> 01:40:51,458 And I will take you just the way you are 1669 01:40:51,459 --> 01:40:54,661 Betty, in color or black and white 1670 01:40:54,662 --> 01:40:56,630 On a bear skin rug 1671 01:40:56,631 --> 01:40:58,632 Or dressed up tight 1672 01:40:58,633 --> 01:41:02,035 Betty, with a smile so sweet 1673 01:41:02,036 --> 01:41:03,637 It just melts my heart 1674 01:41:03,638 --> 01:41:05,872 Maybe some day we'll meet 1675 01:41:05,873 --> 01:41:09,643 Maybe some day we'll meet 1676 01:41:09,644 --> 01:41:12,879 Betty, can you stay the night? 1677 01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:15,048 Don't have to ask your mother 1678 01:41:15,049 --> 01:41:16,917 If it will be all right 1679 01:41:16,918 --> 01:41:19,878 Betty, please say you might 1680 01:41:20,588 --> 01:41:25,687 Betty, please say you might.144785

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