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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,871 --> 00:00:04,661 The problem with the people that run tech companies 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,100 is that they become fanatics, 3 00:00:08,312 --> 00:00:10,012 end up thinking they're messiahs. 4 00:00:23,110 --> 00:00:25,030 I have come to the conclusion that my father 5 00:00:25,155 --> 00:00:26,895 might have been the Zodiac Killer. 6 00:00:28,724 --> 00:00:31,684 The psychotic killer has already murdered five. 7 00:00:31,727 --> 00:00:33,857 What are the odds that Gary Stewart thinks 8 00:00:33,903 --> 00:00:35,863 his father was the Zodiac Killer 9 00:00:35,905 --> 00:00:37,685 and they've got the same handwriting? 10 00:00:37,733 --> 00:00:39,263 And they've got the same scar, 11 00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:41,950 and the police sketch, it's like it's the same person, 12 00:00:41,998 --> 00:00:43,428 and they are in the same places. 13 00:00:43,478 --> 00:00:45,258 I discovered that my father 14 00:00:45,306 --> 00:00:47,956 was sentenced to 90 days 15 00:00:48,004 --> 00:00:51,314 in Atascadero State Mental Hospital. 16 00:00:51,355 --> 00:00:53,485 My father married Edith Kos, 17 00:00:53,531 --> 00:00:55,531 his social worker from prison. 18 00:00:55,577 --> 00:00:58,707 That relationship ended with Edith 19 00:00:58,754 --> 00:01:01,284 leaving to go live with her father 20 00:01:01,322 --> 00:01:03,672 back in Styria, Austria. 21 00:01:03,715 --> 00:01:06,455 We have more evidence now then we had 22 00:01:06,501 --> 00:01:08,111 when we released the book. 23 00:01:08,155 --> 00:01:10,365 You're looking at the Zodiac Killer's 24 00:01:10,418 --> 00:01:11,458 genetic identity. 25 00:01:11,506 --> 00:01:13,896 That would tell us the odds 26 00:01:13,943 --> 00:01:17,253 of The Zodiac being Gary's father. 27 00:01:17,294 --> 00:01:20,694 Lieutenant Hennessey asked if he could gather 28 00:01:20,732 --> 00:01:23,782 a voluntary sample of my DNA. 29 00:01:23,822 --> 00:01:26,742 That was the last time I ever heard from Hennessey. 30 00:01:33,528 --> 00:01:35,358 Based on the DNA results, 31 00:01:35,399 --> 00:01:38,969 there is a 99.8 percent probability 32 00:01:39,011 --> 00:01:41,801 that my father was the Zodiac Killer. 33 00:01:43,625 --> 00:01:46,235 I hadn't heard from Hennessey in years, 34 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,280 so I contacted the San Francisco Police Department, 35 00:01:49,326 --> 00:01:52,366 and they put me in touch with the current inspector 36 00:01:52,416 --> 00:01:55,376 who is handling the Zodiac cold case. 37 00:01:55,419 --> 00:01:57,599 Gianrico Pierucci. 38 00:01:57,639 --> 00:01:59,379 When I met with Gary Stewart, 39 00:01:59,423 --> 00:02:01,823 he wanted to make sure that his DNA 40 00:02:01,860 --> 00:02:03,040 was actually... 41 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,000 done, it was actually analyzed. 42 00:02:07,039 --> 00:02:08,949 So I contacted the lab, 43 00:02:08,998 --> 00:02:13,308 and I told him that the DNA had been analyzed. 44 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:15,400 And what Pierucci was about to tell me 45 00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:18,359 was going to be huge news. 46 00:02:19,008 --> 00:02:20,398 I told him that his father 47 00:02:20,836 --> 00:02:22,966 wasn't going to be excluded. 48 00:02:23,012 --> 00:02:24,972 Pierucci confirmed it. 49 00:02:25,014 --> 00:02:26,544 And then he said, 50 00:02:26,581 --> 00:02:29,151 "By the way, this is gonna do wonders for your book." 51 00:03:34,518 --> 00:03:36,388 This is a photo of Earl Van Best, 52 00:03:36,433 --> 00:03:38,833 with a sketch of the Zodiac, 53 00:03:38,870 --> 00:03:41,090 superimposed over his face. 54 00:03:42,396 --> 00:03:44,486 When I read the book, 55 00:03:44,528 --> 00:03:45,698 I was skeptical at first, 56 00:03:45,747 --> 00:03:48,047 but I kept coming across names 57 00:03:48,097 --> 00:03:49,837 and writing them down on a notebook 58 00:03:49,881 --> 00:03:51,411 next to my bedside table. 59 00:03:51,448 --> 00:03:54,408 Then when I'd go and run them through the system, 60 00:03:54,451 --> 00:03:58,241 seems like Gary did a lot of pretty accurate 61 00:03:58,673 --> 00:04:02,503 genealogical research about Earl Van Best. 62 00:04:02,546 --> 00:04:05,506 And Gary's project was sparked initially 63 00:04:05,549 --> 00:04:07,419 off of a quest of a son trying 64 00:04:07,464 --> 00:04:08,514 to find his father. 65 00:04:09,118 --> 00:04:10,468 And that sparked my interest. 66 00:04:14,515 --> 00:04:17,295 My father's been a PI in San Francisco 67 00:04:17,344 --> 00:04:19,174 for the past 50 years, 68 00:04:19,215 --> 00:04:21,515 and during that time he's come into contact 69 00:04:21,565 --> 00:04:23,645 with lots of the people who've been involved 70 00:04:23,698 --> 00:04:25,398 with the Zodiac case. 71 00:04:25,439 --> 00:04:27,699 He knew Paul Avery, he knew Toschi. 72 00:04:28,572 --> 00:04:30,182 Here's this FBI report. 73 00:04:30,226 --> 00:04:31,656 There's the driver's license number. 74 00:04:31,706 --> 00:04:34,536 You know, you could probably get a transcript 75 00:04:34,578 --> 00:04:35,928 of this driving record. 76 00:04:36,885 --> 00:04:38,445 When you wanna dig for a criminal record 77 00:04:38,495 --> 00:04:40,105 in San Francisco, 78 00:04:40,149 --> 00:04:42,109 there is no easy way to do it, 79 00:04:42,151 --> 00:04:44,551 other than to go down to the Hall of Justice 80 00:04:44,588 --> 00:04:47,328 and to dig through handwritten volumes. 81 00:04:47,374 --> 00:04:48,684 So that's what I did. 82 00:04:48,723 --> 00:04:50,203 So what I have to rely on 83 00:04:50,246 --> 00:04:52,116 are the historical documents 84 00:04:52,161 --> 00:04:54,341 that exist in the public record 85 00:04:54,381 --> 00:04:56,731 that we could then use to piece together 86 00:04:56,774 --> 00:04:57,784 a chronology. 87 00:05:00,256 --> 00:05:03,606 Earl Van Best Jr. bounced around 88 00:05:03,651 --> 00:05:05,351 all over the country. 89 00:05:05,392 --> 00:05:07,962 Yes, so a big challenge here is trying to figure out 90 00:05:08,003 --> 00:05:09,353 was there overlap 91 00:05:09,396 --> 00:05:10,956 with where Earl was 92 00:05:11,006 --> 00:05:13,396 during the time the Zodiac crimes were committed. 93 00:05:13,443 --> 00:05:17,583 And if there was, is there a connection with SFPD 94 00:05:17,621 --> 00:05:20,151 and is there anything there that would suggest a cover-up, 95 00:05:20,189 --> 00:05:22,189 as Gary's put out in his book? 96 00:05:24,498 --> 00:05:26,938 I've never really believed 97 00:05:26,978 --> 00:05:28,978 that the San Francisco Police Department 98 00:05:29,677 --> 00:05:31,287 was a corrupt organization. 99 00:05:32,549 --> 00:05:34,509 But it wouldn't surprise me in the least 100 00:05:34,551 --> 00:05:38,211 if through carelessness, sloppiness, 101 00:05:38,250 --> 00:05:39,600 or foolishness, 102 00:05:39,643 --> 00:05:41,863 they had failed to... 103 00:05:42,559 --> 00:05:44,559 figure out who the Zodiac was. 104 00:05:58,488 --> 00:06:00,398 San Francisco Police displayed a blackboard 105 00:06:00,447 --> 00:06:02,617 with excerpts of the latest Zodiac letter 106 00:06:02,666 --> 00:06:04,666 at a news conference last night. 107 00:06:04,712 --> 00:06:08,282 Police said, it's the first since 1974. 108 00:06:08,324 --> 00:06:10,814 For the last nine years, the Zodiac investigation 109 00:06:10,848 --> 00:06:12,678 has been headed by homicide inspector 110 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:13,420 David Toschi. 111 00:06:14,025 --> 00:06:16,545 I have always felt, 112 00:06:16,593 --> 00:06:19,773 a gut feeling that, that he was not dead 113 00:06:19,814 --> 00:06:20,994 and that he was out there somewhere 114 00:06:21,032 --> 00:06:23,692 and that he would communicate. 115 00:06:25,472 --> 00:06:27,042 When the letter came in 116 00:06:27,909 --> 00:06:29,779 we did a big story and Zodiac is back 117 00:06:29,824 --> 00:06:32,834 and he's claiming new victimsand making new threats. 118 00:06:34,916 --> 00:06:36,266 It's a boasting-type letter. 119 00:06:37,005 --> 00:06:39,265 He, he takes a little slam at me because, 120 00:06:40,269 --> 00:06:42,659 I've been one of the policemen 121 00:06:42,706 --> 00:06:44,006 that's been working on the case for, 122 00:06:44,055 --> 00:06:46,095 almost nine years. 123 00:06:46,144 --> 00:06:47,674 The letter itself said, 124 00:06:47,711 --> 00:06:51,501 "Tell that city pig Toschi I'm still here." 125 00:06:53,935 --> 00:06:56,235 Shortly thereafter, a writer 126 00:06:56,285 --> 00:06:58,455 atThe Chronicle mentioned that 127 00:06:58,505 --> 00:07:01,675 he'd gotten fan mail from Dave Toschi. 128 00:07:01,725 --> 00:07:04,115 Toschi is under fire for writing phony fan letters 129 00:07:04,162 --> 00:07:06,162 about himself to a newspaper feature writer. 130 00:07:06,817 --> 00:07:10,557 I received the bogus fan lettersin the fall of 1976. 131 00:07:10,604 --> 00:07:12,134 I chose to turn the matter over to police 132 00:07:12,170 --> 00:07:13,910 only when I noticed certain similarities 133 00:07:13,955 --> 00:07:15,645 between the tone of the letters 134 00:07:15,696 --> 00:07:18,736 and the tone of the last Zodiac letter. 135 00:07:18,786 --> 00:07:20,266 Dave Toschi had written 136 00:07:20,309 --> 00:07:22,489 this latest Zodiac letter himself, 137 00:07:22,964 --> 00:07:25,714 to reignite interest in the case. 138 00:07:25,749 --> 00:07:28,359 Inspector Dave Toschi is out of it. 139 00:07:28,404 --> 00:07:30,714 He had been officially reprimanded by being transferred 140 00:07:30,754 --> 00:07:32,714 from the homicide detail to the pawn shop detail. 141 00:07:34,715 --> 00:07:36,665 I, I don't know what his thinking was. 142 00:07:36,717 --> 00:07:38,497 I never asked him or remember his-- 143 00:07:38,545 --> 00:07:40,495 He, he was a broken man. 144 00:07:42,549 --> 00:07:43,679 It was all ego. 145 00:07:46,683 --> 00:07:48,383 Zodiac is the kind of thing 146 00:07:48,424 --> 00:07:50,864 that people just crawl into 147 00:07:50,905 --> 00:07:54,555 and lose themselves in terms of the rabbit hole. 148 00:07:58,347 --> 00:08:00,737 The Zodiac Killer is a story 149 00:08:00,784 --> 00:08:04,534 that gets people completely wrapped into it. 150 00:08:04,571 --> 00:08:06,571 And this case has created obsession for people 151 00:08:06,616 --> 00:08:08,136 that really has taken over their lives. 152 00:08:09,140 --> 00:08:11,670 And this book is, I think, also an example 153 00:08:11,708 --> 00:08:13,928 of how the Zodiac Killer once again 154 00:08:13,971 --> 00:08:15,411 has taken over somebody's life. 155 00:08:16,844 --> 00:08:19,154 But this is about more than a book, 156 00:08:19,194 --> 00:08:20,724 it's actually about identity. 157 00:08:23,633 --> 00:08:25,723 When you're adopted, 158 00:08:25,766 --> 00:08:28,766 you spend your whole life making up stories 159 00:08:28,812 --> 00:08:31,342 of who you are. 160 00:08:31,380 --> 00:08:33,770 They're never right, of course. 161 00:08:33,817 --> 00:08:35,517 But you have to have a story. 162 00:08:37,168 --> 00:08:40,778 You can't just not have an identity. 163 00:08:40,824 --> 00:08:43,614 So the only thing you can do is make it up. 164 00:08:51,748 --> 00:08:53,788 One of the reasons I wanted to read the book 165 00:08:53,837 --> 00:08:55,137 was because I thought at last 166 00:08:55,186 --> 00:08:58,146 I'm gonna find out what really happened. 167 00:08:58,189 --> 00:09:00,539 But it starts off right away with 168 00:09:01,192 --> 00:09:03,372 things that are, are inaccurate 169 00:09:03,412 --> 00:09:05,812 and fabricated. 170 00:09:05,849 --> 00:09:07,239 I think my hair was on fire, 171 00:09:07,285 --> 00:09:10,415 the first read-through of the book. 172 00:09:14,641 --> 00:09:16,771 And there was a lot of talk about 173 00:09:16,817 --> 00:09:18,557 getting off a school bus. 174 00:09:19,776 --> 00:09:22,166 There were no school buses 175 00:09:22,213 --> 00:09:24,173 We didn't get off a school bus. 176 00:09:24,215 --> 00:09:26,995 School buses were for elementary school children. 177 00:09:28,437 --> 00:09:30,397 I'll tell you, my first manuscript 178 00:09:30,439 --> 00:09:32,749 says street car. 179 00:09:32,789 --> 00:09:35,839 One day, my mother told me 180 00:09:35,879 --> 00:09:37,969 honey, I was wrong about the street car. 181 00:09:38,012 --> 00:09:40,062 I got off the school bus. 182 00:09:41,450 --> 00:09:43,020 I didn't, I didn't create that, 183 00:09:43,060 --> 00:09:45,670 I didn't create that having known that, 184 00:09:45,715 --> 00:09:48,845 the Zodiac Killer, 185 00:09:49,458 --> 00:09:52,498 taunted the policethreatening to shoot kiddies 186 00:09:52,548 --> 00:09:54,638 as they come bouncing off a school bus. 187 00:09:54,681 --> 00:09:57,511 My mother corrected me. 188 00:09:57,553 --> 00:09:59,643 Jude told me specifically 189 00:09:59,686 --> 00:10:01,636 that I used to think it was a street car, 190 00:10:01,688 --> 00:10:03,688 but now I remember that it was a school bus. 191 00:10:04,691 --> 00:10:06,431 I have it in my notes. 192 00:10:06,475 --> 00:10:08,995 And memory is subjective. 193 00:10:09,043 --> 00:10:10,833 When I look at my childhood 194 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,480 I remember things a certain way, 195 00:10:14,004 --> 00:10:16,834 my older brothers and sistersremember it a different way. 196 00:10:17,921 --> 00:10:19,621 It's hard to know who's rightand who's wrong. 197 00:10:21,925 --> 00:10:24,795 In the book, they talked about 198 00:10:24,841 --> 00:10:29,541 Van driving up and down the state of California, 199 00:10:29,585 --> 00:10:32,935 on his way to or from Mexico 200 00:10:32,980 --> 00:10:34,900 so that he'd be in the places 201 00:10:34,938 --> 00:10:37,328 where these crimes occurred 202 00:10:37,375 --> 00:10:40,675 But when I knew Van, 203 00:10:40,727 --> 00:10:42,947 he wasn't driving to Mexico, 204 00:10:42,990 --> 00:10:44,770 he was always flying. 205 00:10:44,818 --> 00:10:48,258 And so, for me, that was right from the beginning 206 00:10:48,299 --> 00:10:49,519 that was preposterous. 207 00:10:53,522 --> 00:10:55,132 After the book was published, 208 00:10:55,176 --> 00:10:57,736 Susan called me 209 00:10:57,787 --> 00:11:00,087 and I said to her, 210 00:11:00,137 --> 00:11:02,877 why did you have to make the dialogues 211 00:11:02,923 --> 00:11:04,623 so preposterous. 212 00:11:05,403 --> 00:11:07,803 And she said, 213 00:11:07,841 --> 00:11:11,371 well, those were all right from the police reports. 214 00:11:12,715 --> 00:11:15,715 We took the police reports and changed the name 215 00:11:15,762 --> 00:11:18,112 to my father or Van. 216 00:11:19,635 --> 00:11:22,725 And I said, if that was your investigation, 217 00:11:22,769 --> 00:11:25,899 then I rest my case. 218 00:11:25,946 --> 00:11:28,336 Sometimes you do have to use the techniques 219 00:11:28,383 --> 00:11:30,603 of fiction in true crime. 220 00:11:30,646 --> 00:11:34,346 Use things like foreshadowing and description. 221 00:11:34,998 --> 00:11:36,868 But every single thing that we did in that book 222 00:11:36,913 --> 00:11:38,353 was based on... 223 00:11:39,568 --> 00:11:41,088 what we were told by relatives, 224 00:11:41,135 --> 00:11:43,305 by friends, police reports, 225 00:11:43,354 --> 00:11:46,144 every single thingin that book was based on fact. 226 00:11:51,580 --> 00:11:54,930 I believe that many things changed 227 00:11:54,975 --> 00:11:58,935 from Gary's original book 228 00:11:58,979 --> 00:12:02,719 when they bought in his co-author. 229 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,900 There is a possibility that Gary wants to protect Susan 230 00:12:09,946 --> 00:12:12,166 because she did bring this to the point 231 00:12:12,209 --> 00:12:15,129 where a publisher like Harper Collins 232 00:12:15,169 --> 00:12:16,819 would be interested in it. 233 00:12:18,825 --> 00:12:21,775 As a publisher, we embrace the sensational 234 00:12:21,828 --> 00:12:23,828 in a measured way, um... 235 00:12:24,831 --> 00:12:26,961 because it sells books. 236 00:12:29,052 --> 00:12:31,012 In a narrative presentation, 237 00:12:31,054 --> 00:12:33,364 the language in the book, it's imagined, 238 00:12:33,404 --> 00:12:35,934 but we weren't making factual claims. 239 00:12:35,972 --> 00:12:38,022 We were sort of setting a scene 240 00:12:38,061 --> 00:12:39,931 of how this would have played out 241 00:12:39,976 --> 00:12:42,016 given the evidence we have. 242 00:12:42,065 --> 00:12:45,155 I don't think it was done to mislead anyone. 243 00:12:45,199 --> 00:12:46,589 It was more... 244 00:12:46,635 --> 00:12:48,455 you, you know, it was, it was 245 00:12:48,506 --> 00:12:49,806 a sort of a narrative touch-up, 246 00:12:49,856 --> 00:12:50,856 I'd say. 247 00:12:54,469 --> 00:12:55,909 When I was reading the book, 248 00:12:55,949 --> 00:12:57,209 there were kinda two things going on. 249 00:12:57,254 --> 00:13:00,004 One is Gary's pain in Gary's search, 250 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,040 and that is real and that is, 251 00:13:02,085 --> 00:13:03,825 I think without question. 252 00:13:03,870 --> 00:13:06,700 Then there's other element of claiming to have solved 253 00:13:06,742 --> 00:13:09,052 one of the most legendary cold cases 254 00:13:09,092 --> 00:13:11,232 really of anywhere in the world. 255 00:13:11,268 --> 00:13:13,488 And it's a huge selling point for book publishers. 256 00:13:13,531 --> 00:13:15,841 And that's important to keep in mind because 257 00:13:15,882 --> 00:13:18,192 the vast majority of non-fiction books 258 00:13:18,232 --> 00:13:21,022 are not fact checked. 259 00:13:21,061 --> 00:13:23,631 You would think that a big publisher like Harper Collins has 260 00:13:23,672 --> 00:13:25,672 a budget for fact checking, but they don't. 261 00:13:27,328 --> 00:13:30,418 The book publishing industry, they don't require it. 262 00:13:30,461 --> 00:13:32,641 They need to sell books that are as compelling 263 00:13:32,681 --> 00:13:34,861 and maybe sensational as they could possibly be. 264 00:13:35,466 --> 00:13:37,686 And so all of the responsibility 265 00:13:37,729 --> 00:13:39,249 for making sure that the work is true 266 00:13:39,296 --> 00:13:41,646 and accurate and not copied or other things 267 00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:42,820 is actually put on the author. 268 00:13:44,345 --> 00:13:46,735 Gary and Susan wanted to make 269 00:13:46,782 --> 00:13:48,482 the most compelling book possible. 270 00:13:48,523 --> 00:13:50,483 Of coursethere's gonna be times 271 00:13:50,525 --> 00:13:52,215 where maybe you downplay certain things, 272 00:13:52,266 --> 00:13:54,086 where maybe you speculatein a certain way. 273 00:13:54,137 --> 00:13:56,307 It's very hard to kinda look up one day 274 00:13:56,357 --> 00:13:58,047 and say, wait a second have we, 275 00:13:58,098 --> 00:14:00,878 have we taken a few steps too far. 276 00:14:00,927 --> 00:14:02,097 And your editor's not gonna say that 277 00:14:02,145 --> 00:14:04,095 because they wanna sell the book too. 278 00:14:04,147 --> 00:14:05,667 Everybody is invested 279 00:14:05,714 --> 00:14:07,504 in this guy being the Zodiac Killer. 280 00:14:13,591 --> 00:14:17,251 Many of the claims that are made in Gary's book 281 00:14:17,291 --> 00:14:19,251 largely come from human sources 282 00:14:19,293 --> 00:14:21,083 who've all since passed on. 283 00:14:21,948 --> 00:14:25,038 But Gary had made freedomof information act requests 284 00:14:25,081 --> 00:14:28,691 for Earl Van Best Jr.'sFBI file 285 00:14:28,737 --> 00:14:33,047 and he was also able to obtain a CLETS criminal history. 286 00:14:33,089 --> 00:14:36,269 So Gary used addresses that were contained, 287 00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:38,570 in those documents 288 00:14:38,616 --> 00:14:40,576 to put together his address history 289 00:14:40,618 --> 00:14:42,138 for Earl Van Best. 290 00:14:42,185 --> 00:14:45,055 So I was able to take that and cross reference it 291 00:14:45,101 --> 00:14:47,711 with the Polk City Directories. 292 00:14:47,756 --> 00:14:49,536 After digging through the records 293 00:14:49,584 --> 00:14:50,934 at the public library, 294 00:14:50,977 --> 00:14:53,277 I felt like we had a pretty complete 295 00:14:53,327 --> 00:14:54,887 address history for Earl Van Best. 296 00:14:55,982 --> 00:14:58,112 So in the book, Gary says that 297 00:14:58,158 --> 00:15:02,988 Earl lived at 797 Bush Street in 1969. 298 00:15:03,032 --> 00:15:05,602 The story goes that Paul Stine picked up his fare 299 00:15:05,643 --> 00:15:09,563 two blocks from 797 Bush, 300 00:15:09,604 --> 00:15:12,654 but I don't see any evidence that he lived there in 1969. 301 00:15:13,608 --> 00:15:16,178 He did live there in 1967, 302 00:15:16,219 --> 00:15:19,399 which is two years prior to the murder of Paul Stine. 303 00:15:21,790 --> 00:15:24,580 Another claim that Gary makes in his book 304 00:15:25,228 --> 00:15:29,188 is that Earl Van Best did some time at San Quentin, 305 00:15:29,232 --> 00:15:32,982 but Earl Van Best Jr. was convicted of a federal crime, 306 00:15:33,019 --> 00:15:35,109 and San Quentin 307 00:15:35,151 --> 00:15:37,111 is a state prison. 308 00:15:37,153 --> 00:15:40,113 So there was no reason why he would have gone to San Quentin. 309 00:15:40,156 --> 00:15:42,766 But in my research, I, I didn't come across any evidence 310 00:15:42,811 --> 00:15:45,421 to suggest that he ever did any time in San Quentin. 311 00:15:45,466 --> 00:15:47,336 The only thing I'vecome across was that 312 00:15:47,381 --> 00:15:49,821 he did time at FCI Lompoc. 313 00:15:51,602 --> 00:15:53,132 I was able to assemble 314 00:15:53,169 --> 00:15:56,689 a pretty complete chronology for Earl Van Best. 315 00:15:57,913 --> 00:16:00,223 And we've laid that out on this side 316 00:16:00,263 --> 00:16:01,403 and on this side 317 00:16:02,048 --> 00:16:04,568 we put together the key events 318 00:16:04,615 --> 00:16:06,175 of the Zodiac case. 319 00:16:06,835 --> 00:16:09,265 And what we see in this timeline is that 320 00:16:09,316 --> 00:16:13,406 we have a pretty complete chronology for Earl Van Best 321 00:16:13,450 --> 00:16:18,670 starting in 1957 and going through to 1968, 322 00:16:19,282 --> 00:16:21,852 roughly 1968, 1969. 323 00:16:21,893 --> 00:16:23,033 And then there is a gap. 324 00:16:23,678 --> 00:16:26,248 Earl Van Best seems to have fallen off the radar 325 00:16:26,289 --> 00:16:29,859 between 1969 and 1974. 326 00:16:30,293 --> 00:16:33,253 And most of the Zodiac murdersseem to have taken place 327 00:16:33,296 --> 00:16:35,646 during that gap in his timeline. 328 00:16:36,299 --> 00:16:38,389 So what I'd like to figure out 329 00:16:38,432 --> 00:16:43,222 is where was Earl Van Best during 1969 and 1974? 330 00:16:50,922 --> 00:16:53,192 My original draft 331 00:16:53,229 --> 00:16:56,669 ofThe Most Dangerous Animal Of All was 332 00:16:56,711 --> 00:16:59,241 about my emotional journey. 333 00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:01,279 When it came to the Zodiac, 334 00:17:01,324 --> 00:17:04,114 it was, this happened, this happened, this happened. 335 00:17:04,153 --> 00:17:06,293 That's as far as I went 336 00:17:06,329 --> 00:17:08,159 with the whole Zodiac murders. 337 00:17:09,332 --> 00:17:11,472 Susan took that and made 338 00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:13,950 you know, a whole book section out of it. 339 00:17:15,338 --> 00:17:18,208 She put pieces together based upon 340 00:17:18,254 --> 00:17:21,214 my father's behavior and stories from the family 341 00:17:21,257 --> 00:17:24,167 and William that fit perfectly. 342 00:17:26,175 --> 00:17:28,345 There are parts of the story 343 00:17:28,395 --> 00:17:30,215 that just sound unbelievable. 344 00:17:30,266 --> 00:17:33,436 There are things that seem like 345 00:17:33,487 --> 00:17:36,137 they were made to fit into the story. 346 00:17:37,012 --> 00:17:38,882 But every time I had a doubt, 347 00:17:38,927 --> 00:17:41,097 Gary could produce a document 348 00:17:41,147 --> 00:17:43,107 that verified it. 349 00:17:43,149 --> 00:17:47,539 Especially his conversations with William Lohmus. 350 00:17:47,588 --> 00:17:50,328 Each time I was like, did that really happen? 351 00:17:50,373 --> 00:17:53,123 Then, I would have an email that said 352 00:17:53,159 --> 00:17:55,509 here's William saying it right here. 353 00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:59,250 There were certain things 354 00:17:59,295 --> 00:18:03,465 where I did have to take a small leap of faith, 355 00:18:03,517 --> 00:18:06,687 but I got to a point where when Gary told me something 356 00:18:06,737 --> 00:18:08,997 I didn't doubt him because he always had evidence 357 00:18:09,044 --> 00:18:09,964 to back it up. 358 00:18:13,831 --> 00:18:16,791 I take my own flak from the critics, 359 00:18:16,834 --> 00:18:19,364 and I don't blame Susan for any of it. 360 00:18:19,402 --> 00:18:22,542 It would've never happened if I hadn't told her 361 00:18:22,579 --> 00:18:24,229 with a hundred percent certainty 362 00:18:24,277 --> 00:18:26,577 that my father was the Zodiac Killer. 363 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,200 And she just told the story in a way that... 364 00:18:31,284 --> 00:18:32,594 I wasn't trained to do. 365 00:18:35,984 --> 00:18:38,164 One of the things I never considered doing 366 00:18:38,204 --> 00:18:40,954 was a handwriting analysis. 367 00:18:40,989 --> 00:18:44,299 But Susan took that one step further. 368 00:18:44,340 --> 00:18:46,730 Well, I'm convinced that whoever wrote 369 00:18:46,777 --> 00:18:49,167 the marriage certificate also wrote the letters. 370 00:18:49,606 --> 00:18:52,736 But when I was presented with the marriage certificate, 371 00:18:52,783 --> 00:18:55,183 I was told by Susan 372 00:18:55,221 --> 00:18:58,831 that Judy saw Earl Van Best Jr. 373 00:18:58,876 --> 00:19:01,616 write on the marriage certificate. 374 00:19:01,662 --> 00:19:04,752 But when I read the book, I realized that 375 00:19:04,795 --> 00:19:07,185 Judy was in a dressing room and came out 376 00:19:07,233 --> 00:19:09,583 and the marriage certificate was completed. 377 00:19:09,626 --> 00:19:12,186 Which meant that what I was told earlier, 378 00:19:12,238 --> 00:19:14,198 it was not true. 379 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,240 It raises a question to me, did the minister write 380 00:19:17,286 --> 00:19:19,246 the text on the marriage certificate? 381 00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:23,419 All I have is what my mother told me. 382 00:19:23,466 --> 00:19:24,546 You know, 383 00:19:24,598 --> 00:19:26,598 your father filled this out, 384 00:19:27,470 --> 00:19:29,260 and this is how we were married. 385 00:19:31,866 --> 00:19:34,256 As part of my due diligence and follow-on, 386 00:19:34,303 --> 00:19:37,093 I contacted the church where they got married. 387 00:19:37,915 --> 00:19:40,085 I wanted to find outdo they have examples 388 00:19:40,135 --> 00:19:42,355 of the preacher's writing? 389 00:19:43,051 --> 00:19:44,051 And they did. 390 00:19:48,056 --> 00:19:49,406 I did a comparison... 391 00:19:51,407 --> 00:19:56,367 which caused me to come to the virtually certain opinion 392 00:19:56,412 --> 00:20:00,292 the minister Edward Flagir wrote the marriage certificate. 393 00:20:07,293 --> 00:20:09,823 Because we know that the police sketch 394 00:20:09,860 --> 00:20:11,820 of the eyewitnesses of the Zodiac 395 00:20:11,862 --> 00:20:13,652 matches Earl Van Best Jr., 396 00:20:15,301 --> 00:20:16,651 It raises the question... 397 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,480 Did the minister andEarl Van Best Jr. work together, 398 00:20:20,523 --> 00:20:22,663 one writing the letters, one doing the killing? 399 00:20:26,529 --> 00:20:27,969 That's quite a theory. 400 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,100 I thought we had picked a stable guy. 401 00:20:34,450 --> 00:20:38,110 But I didn't go looking for a handwriting expert, 402 00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:39,889 that was Susan's idea, 403 00:20:39,934 --> 00:20:45,074 and I didn't get involved in that whatsoever. 404 00:20:45,113 --> 00:20:47,903 I thoroughly disagree with Mike Wakshull. 405 00:20:48,682 --> 00:20:50,512 He gave me a report, 406 00:20:50,553 --> 00:20:52,473 and he gave me examples. 407 00:20:52,512 --> 00:20:55,342 And I'm looking at the examples and I can see... 408 00:20:56,385 --> 00:20:59,555 you know, here's a J and that's exactly the way 409 00:21:00,128 --> 00:21:02,518 that the J's are in Van's handwriting. 410 00:21:02,565 --> 00:21:04,955 I'm looking at the examples he gave me, 411 00:21:05,002 --> 00:21:06,792 and they seem conclusive. 412 00:21:12,575 --> 00:21:15,705 I was asked to take a look at a report... 413 00:21:17,928 --> 00:21:21,108 to see if it met the ASTM standards 414 00:21:21,149 --> 00:21:23,669 for handwriting examinations, 415 00:21:23,717 --> 00:21:26,327 starting with one of the most important standards 416 00:21:26,372 --> 00:21:28,372 which is having a reliable comparison. 417 00:21:29,592 --> 00:21:31,252 And we scan in the writings 418 00:21:32,378 --> 00:21:34,208 and then when I am finished, 419 00:21:34,249 --> 00:21:35,689 I can take and see 420 00:21:35,729 --> 00:21:38,169 what the letters don't have in common with each other. 421 00:21:38,688 --> 00:21:41,558 And what's important here isonly till we get down 422 00:21:41,604 --> 00:21:43,744 to the S-A-N and the O-F 423 00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:47,700 where there aresimilar words. 424 00:21:47,741 --> 00:21:51,401 Otherwise, there were no wordsthat were similar. 425 00:21:53,442 --> 00:21:56,232 An additional step that he tookwas to make comparisons 426 00:21:56,271 --> 00:21:57,401 of certain letters. 427 00:21:58,055 --> 00:22:00,745 It's really important when a document examiner, 428 00:22:00,797 --> 00:22:03,187 especially working on anonymous writings, 429 00:22:03,234 --> 00:22:06,374 does not simply pick and choose letters. 430 00:22:06,412 --> 00:22:10,202 For example, he illustrates capital J. 431 00:22:10,241 --> 00:22:12,771 They are standard ways that persons make a J. 432 00:22:12,809 --> 00:22:14,199 There is nothing individualizing 433 00:22:14,245 --> 00:22:16,595 or significant about this letter. 434 00:22:16,639 --> 00:22:18,549 So what he did is he selected these 435 00:22:18,598 --> 00:22:20,818 and I guess two or three other characteristics 436 00:22:20,861 --> 00:22:23,251 that didn't have really much value. 437 00:22:23,298 --> 00:22:24,598 The biggest problem is 438 00:22:24,647 --> 00:22:26,347 there are so many absent characters 439 00:22:26,867 --> 00:22:28,257 and words... 440 00:22:28,651 --> 00:22:30,781 the examination was flawedfrom the very start. 441 00:22:31,219 --> 00:22:33,349 Michael should have saidI need more writings. 442 00:22:34,004 --> 00:22:35,224 He did not do that. 443 00:22:36,180 --> 00:22:37,620 And that's why it's really critical 444 00:22:37,660 --> 00:22:40,230 for the document examiner to have very good judgment 445 00:22:40,271 --> 00:22:42,541 and not sacrificethe principles 446 00:22:42,578 --> 00:22:44,228 or the standards 447 00:22:44,275 --> 00:22:46,495 just to satisfy somebody else. 448 00:22:49,629 --> 00:22:51,849 If Wakshull has been proven... 449 00:22:53,676 --> 00:22:54,806 to be wrong, 450 00:22:55,809 --> 00:22:56,589 okay. 451 00:22:58,028 --> 00:22:58,858 That's handwriting. 452 00:22:59,465 --> 00:23:02,025 That doesn't change Earl Van Best's standing 453 00:23:02,076 --> 00:23:04,296 as a suspect in the Zodiac case. 454 00:23:08,909 --> 00:23:11,779 People in the virtual world say, 455 00:23:11,825 --> 00:23:13,825 they just didn't have enough proof, right? 456 00:23:13,870 --> 00:23:17,050 The handwriting didn't match,the fingerprints didn't match. 457 00:23:17,483 --> 00:23:19,403 But here is that one last smoking gun. 458 00:23:20,616 --> 00:23:22,226 If you look to the DNA, 459 00:23:22,270 --> 00:23:23,620 there's one guy left. 460 00:23:26,274 --> 00:23:28,804 And that DNA has been confirmed 461 00:23:28,842 --> 00:23:30,802 with Sergeant Pierucci. 462 00:23:30,844 --> 00:23:33,854 Pierucci said Gary's father could not be excluded. 463 00:23:34,587 --> 00:23:38,287 That Earl Van Best Jr. is the only person in history 464 00:23:38,721 --> 00:23:40,241 who cannot be excluded 465 00:23:40,288 --> 00:23:42,158 as being the Zodiac. 466 00:23:43,291 --> 00:23:46,951 That's a pretty damning piece of evidence. 467 00:23:50,646 --> 00:23:52,296 In the late '90s, 468 00:23:52,343 --> 00:23:55,043 the Zodiac case was essentially 469 00:23:55,085 --> 00:23:58,085 in an inactive status. 470 00:23:58,132 --> 00:24:00,132 And so I made a suggestion 471 00:24:00,177 --> 00:24:03,527 to police administration regarding 472 00:24:03,572 --> 00:24:06,582 establishing a cold case squad. 473 00:24:06,619 --> 00:24:09,359 One of the reasons I'd made the proposal 474 00:24:09,404 --> 00:24:12,764 was because of advances in technology, 475 00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,719 specifically the advent of DNA 476 00:24:15,758 --> 00:24:18,718 and so I'd submitted the envelopes 477 00:24:18,761 --> 00:24:23,111 and the result of the publicity that attended the case, 478 00:24:23,157 --> 00:24:25,937 the news media was interested. 479 00:24:25,986 --> 00:24:28,506 And ABC contacted us 480 00:24:28,554 --> 00:24:31,644 through a producer named Harry Phillips. 481 00:24:31,687 --> 00:24:33,777 I produced a documentary 482 00:24:33,820 --> 00:24:36,780 on the Zodiac investigation in 2001. 483 00:24:37,432 --> 00:24:39,742 DNA technology had gotten to a point 484 00:24:39,782 --> 00:24:43,702 where they could begin testingsome of the Zodiac evidence 485 00:24:44,787 --> 00:24:47,397 We get an adrenaline rush knowing that 486 00:24:48,225 --> 00:24:51,135 part of this puzzle has been revealed to you. 487 00:24:51,185 --> 00:24:53,395 You're looking at the Zodiac Killer's 488 00:24:53,448 --> 00:24:55,318 genetic identity... 489 00:24:55,363 --> 00:24:57,543 The San Francisco Police Department found 490 00:24:57,583 --> 00:25:00,503 five of a potential nine genetic markers. 491 00:25:01,369 --> 00:25:03,679 These notes are what we use to create 492 00:25:03,719 --> 00:25:06,109 a computer-generated graphic to show 493 00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:09,116 what the partial DNA profileof the Zodiac 494 00:25:09,159 --> 00:25:10,249 would've looked like. 495 00:25:11,031 --> 00:25:12,691 And I can tell youI put instructions 496 00:25:12,728 --> 00:25:15,338 on how to fill inthe numbers, 497 00:25:15,383 --> 00:25:17,393 what color to, to put in. 498 00:25:18,038 --> 00:25:20,258 and then instructions to obliterate 499 00:25:20,823 --> 00:25:22,783 the actual numbers that are there. 500 00:25:22,825 --> 00:25:25,345 But these numbers don't represent 501 00:25:25,393 --> 00:25:28,183 the actual numbers from the Zodiac profile. 502 00:25:29,049 --> 00:25:31,569 The actual resultsnever left the lab 503 00:25:31,617 --> 00:25:33,357 and were never broadcast. 504 00:25:33,401 --> 00:25:35,801 There's no way that Gary Stewart's DNA 505 00:25:35,838 --> 00:25:38,578 would match the values that we put 506 00:25:38,624 --> 00:25:40,714 in the DNA profile that we broadcast 507 00:25:40,756 --> 00:25:43,926 because we did not broadcast the specific values 508 00:25:43,977 --> 00:25:46,717 of each of those five markers because that was evidence. 509 00:25:46,762 --> 00:25:48,422 And they didn't want us to release that. 510 00:25:49,722 --> 00:25:51,722 The DNA profile that you saw 511 00:25:51,767 --> 00:25:54,027 on television was not provided 512 00:25:54,074 --> 00:25:56,164 by the San Francisco Police Department. 513 00:25:56,206 --> 00:25:57,856 That would be reckless. 514 00:26:14,660 --> 00:26:19,270 So... only one of... 515 00:26:20,361 --> 00:26:23,841 the allele values for one of the STR loci, 516 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,590 based on my father's genetic profile 517 00:26:28,717 --> 00:26:31,677 matches what this producer, 518 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,640 gave you as being a blurred value. 519 00:26:34,941 --> 00:26:35,591 That's fair. 520 00:26:37,683 --> 00:26:38,683 That's fair. 521 00:26:39,032 --> 00:26:40,032 And that had... 522 00:26:40,686 --> 00:26:43,466 You know, we, we, um... 523 00:26:45,125 --> 00:26:46,815 We looked at it thinkingwe were gonna, 524 00:26:47,257 --> 00:26:50,697 um, either identify or eliminate... 525 00:26:51,784 --> 00:26:54,794 the possibility that any of my father's match 526 00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:57,050 but what we saw we saw the same thing... 527 00:26:59,052 --> 00:27:00,792 and it, it was blurred so it doesn't matter. 528 00:27:00,836 --> 00:27:03,226 It's, it's, it, it's irrelevant 529 00:27:03,273 --> 00:27:04,803 because that's not even the markers 530 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,540 of the Zodiac Killer. 531 00:27:06,581 --> 00:27:09,371 Okay, so-- But what I'll tell you is 532 00:27:09,932 --> 00:27:11,722 we didn't do anything... 533 00:27:12,848 --> 00:27:15,068 with those values. 534 00:27:17,766 --> 00:27:21,066 We didn't get anybody to do anything for us. 535 00:27:21,117 --> 00:27:24,287 We didn't get Scales Lab to do anything for us 536 00:27:24,338 --> 00:27:26,338 based on what we thought we saw. 537 00:27:28,298 --> 00:27:30,688 So, on the Special,um, 538 00:27:31,606 --> 00:27:33,906 they show a whole 16 marker profile, 539 00:27:33,956 --> 00:27:35,476 and some of them are blank. 540 00:27:35,523 --> 00:27:38,133 But what ABC did is they highlighted 541 00:27:38,744 --> 00:27:40,144 the five markers 542 00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:41,920 that they extracted, okay, 543 00:27:41,964 --> 00:27:43,534 and then they put values in there. 544 00:27:43,574 --> 00:27:46,144 I don't care if they put thewrong values or blurred them, 545 00:27:46,752 --> 00:27:49,362 but what's very clear is what values, 546 00:27:49,406 --> 00:27:52,146 what, what STR loci they had. 547 00:27:52,758 --> 00:27:54,798 We told Scales 548 00:27:55,325 --> 00:27:57,275 which five of the 16 549 00:27:57,327 --> 00:27:59,547 that the San Francisco Police Department, ABC 550 00:27:59,590 --> 00:28:00,940 had looked at-- had, had discovered. 551 00:28:01,636 --> 00:28:03,936 That's all we gave them.We didn't give them any numbers. 552 00:28:03,986 --> 00:28:07,766 Their statistical basis for this new analysis 553 00:28:07,816 --> 00:28:10,296 is the fact that Pierucci saidmy markers match. 554 00:28:10,340 --> 00:28:12,170 It has nothing to do with the ABC show 555 00:28:12,647 --> 00:28:15,517 The value of the allele may have been changed, 556 00:28:15,563 --> 00:28:17,783 may have been blurred, it doesn't matter. 557 00:28:17,826 --> 00:28:19,786 The values that we got-- 558 00:28:19,828 --> 00:28:21,348 Susan and I got excited about, 559 00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:25,970 were never presented to the Scales Lab. 560 00:28:26,008 --> 00:28:28,178 Pierucci said he can't eliminate Van. 561 00:28:28,619 --> 00:28:30,879 So Schiro made the assumptionbased upon what 562 00:28:30,926 --> 00:28:32,796 Pierucci told me. 563 00:28:33,712 --> 00:28:35,372 The fact that my father can't be eliminated 564 00:28:35,409 --> 00:28:37,149 as Zodiac suspect means, 565 00:28:37,585 --> 00:28:39,105 means all five of these match, 566 00:28:39,152 --> 00:28:42,812 so they've got the single valuenot a double value 567 00:28:42,851 --> 00:28:44,771 of the, the, the loci. 568 00:28:44,810 --> 00:28:47,120 They've got at least one of the two for-- 569 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,210 that, that are the Zodiac Killer's. 570 00:28:49,249 --> 00:28:50,549 Because they match Van, right? 571 00:28:50,598 --> 00:28:51,768 If they don't match Van, 572 00:28:51,817 --> 00:28:52,907 they can be eliminated. 573 00:28:52,948 --> 00:28:56,168 So D8, D3, D5, vWA, 574 00:28:57,039 --> 00:28:58,609 match these values. 575 00:28:59,041 --> 00:29:00,391 If one doesn't match, 576 00:29:01,174 --> 00:29:02,134 then it's out. 577 00:29:02,175 --> 00:29:03,345 I still don't have anything 578 00:29:03,393 --> 00:29:04,923 that says Susan sent blurred values. 579 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,010 Susan told us that you sent 580 00:29:07,049 --> 00:29:08,359 those blurred numbers to the lab. 581 00:29:08,398 --> 00:29:10,788 I don't believe that. I don't believe it. 582 00:29:10,836 --> 00:29:12,136 That's what she told us. 583 00:29:12,185 --> 00:29:14,615 I don't believe that. I don't, I don't. 584 00:29:15,841 --> 00:29:17,361 I don't believe she did that. 585 00:29:17,407 --> 00:29:18,797 We can ask her. 586 00:29:18,844 --> 00:29:20,064 We will ask her because 587 00:29:20,671 --> 00:29:23,411 I can't believe that,that Susan would have told him, 588 00:29:23,457 --> 00:29:24,937 here's what we think we saw. 589 00:29:25,328 --> 00:29:26,978 Susan's a better researcher than that. 590 00:29:28,027 --> 00:29:29,807 I didn't say, I didn't say that. 591 00:29:34,903 --> 00:29:38,043 That makes absolutely no sense. 592 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,820 Gary sent the email asking Schiro to compare 593 00:29:41,867 --> 00:29:43,647 the blurred numbers that we came up with 594 00:29:43,694 --> 00:29:45,484 when we watched the Primetime Special. 595 00:29:50,136 --> 00:29:53,616 But Pierucci... told Gary 596 00:29:53,661 --> 00:29:55,451 his father could not be excluded. 597 00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:59,930 If Pierucci told me, hey, we ran that DNA 598 00:30:00,363 --> 00:30:02,453 and Van's markers didn't match 599 00:30:03,105 --> 00:30:06,405 I would be like, my God,I have so screwed up. 600 00:30:06,456 --> 00:30:08,976 Until I hear Pierucci tell me that, 601 00:30:09,808 --> 00:30:10,808 I'm gonna stick with my story. 602 00:30:13,028 --> 00:30:15,068 So, in Gary's manuscript 603 00:30:15,117 --> 00:30:17,077 he retypes the police report, 604 00:30:17,119 --> 00:30:19,859 and it showed that Van actually went to Atascadero. 605 00:30:21,167 --> 00:30:22,857 When we review the actual report 606 00:30:22,908 --> 00:30:24,038 from the SFPD, 607 00:30:24,474 --> 00:30:26,094 everything was the same except that 608 00:30:26,128 --> 00:30:27,958 Atascadero was added. 609 00:30:28,696 --> 00:30:30,086 - So in the manuscript... - What? 610 00:30:30,132 --> 00:30:31,702 he put in Atascadero. 611 00:30:39,489 --> 00:30:41,009 I can't speak to that. 612 00:30:41,709 --> 00:30:43,489 The CLETS reportthat I saw 613 00:30:43,972 --> 00:30:45,582 had Atascadero in it. 614 00:30:47,933 --> 00:30:49,283 Could you give me a minute? 615 00:31:04,166 --> 00:31:05,296 Motherfucker. 616 00:31:18,964 --> 00:31:21,714 Since I discovered that 617 00:31:21,749 --> 00:31:24,529 some of the things in the book weren't true, 618 00:31:25,187 --> 00:31:26,747 I was devastated. 619 00:31:27,407 --> 00:31:29,317 My integrity means a whole lot to me, 620 00:31:29,975 --> 00:31:32,535 and it really sent me into a tailspin. 621 00:31:33,979 --> 00:31:35,759 I wrote a book 622 00:31:35,806 --> 00:31:38,936 that there were discrepancies in, 623 00:31:38,984 --> 00:31:42,604 and I felt like I had not done my job. 624 00:31:42,639 --> 00:31:46,559 And so I began to search for the truth. 625 00:31:47,993 --> 00:31:51,003 I went back through newspaper articles, 626 00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:52,389 through police reports, 627 00:31:52,432 --> 00:31:54,132 through all of the communication 628 00:31:54,173 --> 00:31:56,093 Gary and I had about this. 629 00:31:57,219 --> 00:31:59,309 He was my source for this book, 630 00:31:59,352 --> 00:32:01,792 and I trusted what he told me. 631 00:32:04,226 --> 00:32:06,966 One of the things Gary told me was that 632 00:32:07,012 --> 00:32:09,622 Earl Van Best Jr. was in Atascadero 633 00:32:09,666 --> 00:32:12,576 and when I read his original manuscript 634 00:32:12,626 --> 00:32:15,146 one of this sentences for fraud by wire 635 00:32:15,194 --> 00:32:19,634 the sentences was 90 days Atascadero State Hospital. 636 00:32:19,676 --> 00:32:21,976 But if you look at the original CLETS report, 637 00:32:22,027 --> 00:32:23,897 Atascadero isn't there. 638 00:32:25,378 --> 00:32:27,988 Gary told me that when Hennessey handed him 639 00:32:28,033 --> 00:32:30,433 that report, Hennessey said, 640 00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:32,990 your father was in Atascadero. 641 00:32:33,038 --> 00:32:35,258 In Gary's original manuscript, 642 00:32:35,823 --> 00:32:38,353 he duplicated the CLETS report 643 00:32:38,391 --> 00:32:40,051 and added Atascadero. 644 00:32:41,263 --> 00:32:42,663 I wrote a lot about that. 645 00:32:42,699 --> 00:32:44,609 That played a significant role 646 00:32:45,050 --> 00:32:49,360 in determining that Earl Van Best Jr. 647 00:32:49,402 --> 00:32:52,012 had the psychosis necessary 648 00:32:52,057 --> 00:32:53,187 to be the Zodiac Killer. 649 00:32:55,843 --> 00:32:58,063 It's really been difficult for me 650 00:32:58,106 --> 00:32:59,666 trying to figure out 651 00:32:59,716 --> 00:33:02,416 did Gary deliberately tell me things 652 00:33:02,458 --> 00:33:05,678 that were not true, or does he really believe? 653 00:33:07,898 --> 00:33:09,068 After the book came out, 654 00:33:09,726 --> 00:33:12,026 the one thing I had that I knew 655 00:33:12,729 --> 00:33:14,209 that nobody else knew 656 00:33:14,688 --> 00:33:17,128 was that Detective Pierucci had said 657 00:33:17,169 --> 00:33:19,169 that DNA could not be excluded 658 00:33:20,433 --> 00:33:23,313 Detective Pierucci has agreedto meet with me 659 00:33:23,349 --> 00:33:25,829 and talk with me about what happened 660 00:33:25,873 --> 00:33:27,483 when he met with Gary Stewart. 661 00:33:32,140 --> 00:33:34,010 When you were talking to Gary, 662 00:33:34,316 --> 00:33:35,836 you told him 663 00:33:35,883 --> 00:33:38,673 that Gary's fathercould not be excluded 664 00:33:39,321 --> 00:33:41,981 as a suspectin the Zodiac case. 665 00:33:43,456 --> 00:33:45,066 - Is that correct? - Right. Because we'd have to do 666 00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:46,850 more investigating on his father. 667 00:33:46,894 --> 00:33:49,854 I, I can't just take the bookand say this is perfect. 668 00:33:49,897 --> 00:33:51,507 We've got all the information here. 669 00:33:51,551 --> 00:33:54,251 But the terminology"could not be excluded" 670 00:33:54,293 --> 00:33:57,343 is typically reserved for DNA. 671 00:33:57,948 --> 00:34:00,858 I, I wasn't referring to the DNAwhen I excluded, you know, 672 00:34:00,908 --> 00:34:02,428 when I told him that he couldn't be excluded. 673 00:34:02,475 --> 00:34:04,865 Okay? What I was trying to tell him was 674 00:34:04,912 --> 00:34:07,872 and, you know, I think he didmisinterpret me telling him, 675 00:34:07,915 --> 00:34:10,305 no, you know, I can't exclude your father. 676 00:34:11,223 --> 00:34:13,313 I can't exclude your father as, as the Zodiac, 677 00:34:13,355 --> 00:34:15,485 only because we don't have 678 00:34:16,228 --> 00:34:18,668 the knowledge that the Zodiac actually touched 679 00:34:18,708 --> 00:34:20,188 or licked the stamp. 680 00:34:21,015 --> 00:34:23,755 Gary's DNA was checked by our lab, 681 00:34:24,366 --> 00:34:25,056 and that's all I can tell you. 682 00:34:25,715 --> 00:34:27,665 Okay. So I, I wouldn't give him 683 00:34:27,717 --> 00:34:29,067 any DNA information. 684 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,459 Gary also told me that 685 00:34:31,504 --> 00:34:34,684 you told him the informationthat you gave him 686 00:34:34,724 --> 00:34:36,344 should do wonders for the book. 687 00:34:36,378 --> 00:34:37,728 Was that accurate? 688 00:34:38,163 --> 00:34:40,903 Information that I gave him would do wonders for the book? 689 00:34:40,948 --> 00:34:43,118 I, I just told him that I liked the book. 690 00:34:43,168 --> 00:34:44,468 I don't know, I-- 691 00:34:44,517 --> 00:34:47,037 Did you tell him that 692 00:34:47,476 --> 00:34:50,386 Earl Van Best Jr. wasyour number one suspect now? 693 00:34:50,958 --> 00:34:51,918 No, I did not. 694 00:34:51,959 --> 00:34:53,089 - You did not say that? - No. 695 00:34:54,266 --> 00:34:57,096 And you were not convinced that... 696 00:34:58,313 --> 00:35:00,533 Gary had solved the casefor the SFPD? 697 00:35:02,317 --> 00:35:04,187 No, I wasn't convinced. 698 00:35:04,754 --> 00:35:06,234 But I did like the book. 699 00:35:06,278 --> 00:35:07,188 Gotcha. 700 00:35:07,235 --> 00:35:08,365 I sure do appreciate 701 00:35:09,063 --> 00:35:10,983 you taking the time to talk to me. 702 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,250 Detective Pierucci had no reason 703 00:35:18,290 --> 00:35:19,330 to lie to me. 704 00:35:21,075 --> 00:35:24,165 In my effort to discover what was true, 705 00:35:24,209 --> 00:35:26,169 I reached out to a private investigator 706 00:35:26,211 --> 00:35:27,731 in San Francisco 707 00:35:27,777 --> 00:35:29,737 who's been... 708 00:35:29,779 --> 00:35:32,739 researching Gary's claims in the book. 709 00:35:32,782 --> 00:35:36,312 I sent him Gary's original manuscript, 710 00:35:36,351 --> 00:35:38,351 other evidence that I've uncovered 711 00:35:38,397 --> 00:35:40,007 over the past few weeks. 712 00:35:40,921 --> 00:35:44,191 We have an abundance of great one-liners 713 00:35:44,229 --> 00:35:47,539 and colorful descriptors and so on, 714 00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:49,410 but we have a lack of sources. 715 00:35:50,235 --> 00:35:52,445 I wasn't able to interview Lieutenant Hennessey back then 716 00:35:52,498 --> 00:35:55,238 because Gary told me SFPD had shut him down. 717 00:35:55,588 --> 00:35:58,158 So two weeks ago, I called him. 718 00:35:59,113 --> 00:36:00,773 And he didn't want to talk about it, 719 00:36:00,810 --> 00:36:02,330 but what he did say to me 720 00:36:03,117 --> 00:36:05,207 - when I told him who I was...- 721 00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:07,030 ...he said, I don't want to talk about that. 722 00:36:07,469 --> 00:36:09,379 I don't want to talk to anybody about that, 723 00:36:09,645 --> 00:36:12,255 but I will say I was so disappointed 724 00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:14,870 that he wasn't honest with me when I dealt with him. 725 00:36:15,956 --> 00:36:17,216 That's what he had to say. 726 00:36:17,262 --> 00:36:19,222 Gary Stewart was not honest with him 727 00:36:19,873 --> 00:36:21,223 when he dealt with him. 728 00:36:21,875 --> 00:36:24,045 Which makes me wonder 729 00:36:24,704 --> 00:36:27,364 is how much of what I wrote about Hennessey, 730 00:36:27,402 --> 00:36:29,452 about the San Francisco Police Department 731 00:36:29,491 --> 00:36:32,281 in that book, how much of that was true? 732 00:36:33,147 --> 00:36:35,667 In going through the book, 733 00:36:35,715 --> 00:36:38,405 there are other piecesof evidence that didn't... 734 00:36:38,848 --> 00:36:40,808 hold up to scrutiny, 735 00:36:40,850 --> 00:36:43,290 um, and one of themwas The Mikado. 736 00:36:44,158 --> 00:36:46,378 What I've been able to tell, the Japanese Empire 737 00:36:46,421 --> 00:36:48,291 had banned The Mikado, 738 00:36:48,728 --> 00:36:50,158 and it only became, 739 00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:53,249 released publicly after the end of World War II 740 00:36:53,298 --> 00:36:54,388 in 1945. 741 00:36:54,429 --> 00:36:57,479 But the Van Best family leaves Japan in 1941. 742 00:36:57,519 --> 00:36:59,299 What Gary told me 743 00:36:59,739 --> 00:37:01,609 was that he sent playbills back 744 00:37:01,654 --> 00:37:03,744 to his best family members 745 00:37:04,091 --> 00:37:07,831 and that Van became obsessed 746 00:37:07,877 --> 00:37:10,097 with The Mikado because of 747 00:37:10,402 --> 00:37:12,142 seeing it in Japan. 748 00:37:12,186 --> 00:37:13,876 And now you're telling me it was banned. 749 00:37:14,667 --> 00:37:15,667 Wow. 750 00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:20,060 So, big part of whatI've been working on 751 00:37:20,107 --> 00:37:23,887 is trying to establisha timeline for Earl Van Best. 752 00:37:24,372 --> 00:37:28,462 There is a blank periodbetween 1969 and 1974 753 00:37:28,898 --> 00:37:31,068 where he, he, he doesn't appear to have 754 00:37:31,118 --> 00:37:33,338 much of a footprint in San Francisco. 755 00:37:33,381 --> 00:37:36,171 So after I didall my research, 756 00:37:37,211 --> 00:37:38,341 you know, seeing this letter that you are able 757 00:37:38,386 --> 00:37:40,476 to share with methat comes from Guinevere, 758 00:37:41,346 --> 00:37:43,646 who is one of Earl Van Best's daughters 759 00:37:43,696 --> 00:37:45,086 who was born in Austria, 760 00:37:45,132 --> 00:37:46,872 I mean, it really helped close the gap 761 00:37:46,916 --> 00:37:50,436 on... on this sort of missing piece 762 00:37:50,485 --> 00:37:52,525 of his US address history. 763 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,360 "They all moved back to Austriawhere I was born in 1970. 764 00:37:58,363 --> 00:38:00,413 "A year later,my father left my mother 765 00:38:00,452 --> 00:38:02,452 and went backto the States." 766 00:38:04,020 --> 00:38:07,290 We've initiated some requestsfor his immigration records 767 00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:09,109 but, unfortunately, 768 00:38:09,156 --> 00:38:11,286 records prior to 1980don't exist. 769 00:38:12,594 --> 00:38:14,944 Gary told me that 770 00:38:15,597 --> 00:38:17,897 his father took his family 771 00:38:17,947 --> 00:38:21,597 to Austria and immediately abandoned them there 772 00:38:21,647 --> 00:38:25,427 and that Guinevere's version of events was not true 773 00:38:25,477 --> 00:38:28,307 because Edith had motive to... 774 00:38:29,045 --> 00:38:31,125 not make her children feel 775 00:38:31,178 --> 00:38:34,008 like their father just broughtthem there and left them. 776 00:38:34,050 --> 00:38:36,230 And instead of doing my job, 777 00:38:36,836 --> 00:38:38,356 I believed him. 778 00:38:38,403 --> 00:38:39,803 I saw those letters 779 00:38:40,622 --> 00:38:41,362 early on 780 00:38:41,406 --> 00:38:43,626 when I first met Gary. 781 00:38:43,669 --> 00:38:45,759 They were in his original manuscript. 782 00:38:45,801 --> 00:38:48,151 At that time, I didn't understand 783 00:38:48,195 --> 00:38:49,805 the significance of that 784 00:38:49,849 --> 00:38:53,719 because I didn't even really know much more 785 00:38:53,766 --> 00:38:57,376 about the Zodiac than the average American does. 786 00:38:57,422 --> 00:39:01,382 And by the time I got into the Zodiac Killer part of it, 787 00:39:01,817 --> 00:39:03,517 Gary explained it away 788 00:39:03,558 --> 00:39:05,038 like he explained... 789 00:39:05,821 --> 00:39:07,781 a lot of what I asked him away. 790 00:39:08,911 --> 00:39:13,001 If Earl Van Best Jr. was notin the country in 1970, 791 00:39:14,090 --> 00:39:16,270 he, he couldn't have beenthe Zodiac Killer. 792 00:39:18,268 --> 00:39:19,358 Case closed. 793 00:39:24,274 --> 00:39:25,584 Danger in our day. 794 00:39:25,624 --> 00:39:28,454 There's the danger that others would deceive us. 795 00:39:28,496 --> 00:39:29,576 False prophets. 796 00:39:31,064 --> 00:39:32,374 There's another danger. 797 00:39:34,023 --> 00:39:37,033 It's not that someone else would deceive you 798 00:39:37,070 --> 00:39:39,030 but that you would 799 00:39:39,072 --> 00:39:41,032 be deceived by yourself. 800 00:39:43,511 --> 00:39:45,771 Today is the day when you can make ready 801 00:39:45,818 --> 00:39:46,778 to be golden. 802 00:39:46,819 --> 00:39:47,989 Let's stand again. 803 00:39:48,037 --> 00:39:49,427 Every head bow... 804 00:39:49,474 --> 00:39:51,434 Human beings that we are, 805 00:39:51,476 --> 00:39:54,776 we're very good at constructing stories. 806 00:39:54,827 --> 00:39:57,437 There are people out there who have belief systems 807 00:39:57,482 --> 00:39:59,482 that are absolute delusions, 808 00:39:59,919 --> 00:40:01,619 and they're unshakeable. 809 00:40:02,269 --> 00:40:05,399 They may build their whole lifearound this story 810 00:40:05,838 --> 00:40:08,668 to the point thatit becomes an obsession, 811 00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:11,450 and they get so attached to them 812 00:40:11,496 --> 00:40:14,016 that there's no way of arguing them out of them. 813 00:40:14,063 --> 00:40:15,463 Pray in Jesus' name... 814 00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,890 I don't know that I've run across 815 00:40:17,937 --> 00:40:19,497 too many con men. 816 00:40:19,852 --> 00:40:23,902 The greater number of folksthat are devoted to this case 817 00:40:23,943 --> 00:40:26,863 actually do believe. 818 00:40:29,862 --> 00:40:34,042 Some aspect of their ego has them invested 819 00:40:34,083 --> 00:40:37,483 such that it becomes self-identifying. 820 00:40:37,522 --> 00:40:40,532 Their identity is now related to this case 821 00:40:40,568 --> 00:40:42,478 and once that's fused, 822 00:40:42,527 --> 00:40:44,487 it's essentially impossible 823 00:40:44,529 --> 00:40:46,529 to uncouple that. 824 00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:52,280 It may confer on them a sense of self-importance 825 00:40:52,319 --> 00:40:55,759 so that even though it's a ugly story, 826 00:40:55,801 --> 00:40:58,631 it makes them important nonetheless. 827 00:40:58,673 --> 00:41:00,633 It's feeding something in them. 828 00:41:02,155 --> 00:41:04,635 However, people are capable 829 00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:06,159 of fooling people... 830 00:41:09,554 --> 00:41:10,994 particularly if there's 831 00:41:11,556 --> 00:41:13,686 hope for monetary gain... 832 00:41:14,994 --> 00:41:16,524 or for fame. 833 00:41:17,126 --> 00:41:17,946 Thank you. 834 00:41:17,997 --> 00:41:18,947 Thank you. 835 00:41:21,435 --> 00:41:23,605 But it's pretty hard to know for sure 836 00:41:23,655 --> 00:41:25,085 whether it's a con or not. 837 00:41:30,966 --> 00:41:32,926 I believe to this day 838 00:41:33,839 --> 00:41:35,749 that he believes 839 00:41:35,797 --> 00:41:38,627 he is the son of the Zodiac. 840 00:41:38,670 --> 00:41:41,760 It goes back to that adoption idea that 841 00:41:41,803 --> 00:41:45,153 any identity may be better than no identity. 842 00:41:47,417 --> 00:41:49,377 People who love you 843 00:41:49,419 --> 00:41:51,379 can't know... 844 00:41:51,421 --> 00:41:52,511 what it feels like. 845 00:41:54,642 --> 00:41:57,212 This sense of... 846 00:41:58,646 --> 00:41:59,726 inferiority... 847 00:42:00,605 --> 00:42:01,945 not being good enough. 848 00:42:04,260 --> 00:42:05,520 So... 849 00:42:13,487 --> 00:42:15,397 I think he had a need to create 850 00:42:15,445 --> 00:42:17,705 the worst possible person 851 00:42:17,752 --> 00:42:20,582 in the world to be able to explain 852 00:42:20,625 --> 00:42:21,925 to himself 853 00:42:21,974 --> 00:42:25,064 how a father who's supposed to love his son 854 00:42:25,630 --> 00:42:28,070 could just leave him like that on a stairwell 855 00:42:29,198 --> 00:42:32,198 to be, you know, found by whoever or not found. 856 00:42:34,769 --> 00:42:37,159 When Gary called me, 857 00:42:37,206 --> 00:42:39,376 he said that he doesn't not want 858 00:42:39,426 --> 00:42:40,946 the book to be his legacy. 859 00:42:40,993 --> 00:42:41,993 He wants... 860 00:42:42,429 --> 00:42:45,389 a beautiful family that doesn't have 861 00:42:45,432 --> 00:42:48,652 these kinds of skeletons in the closet. 862 00:42:50,002 --> 00:42:52,052 So... 863 00:42:52,091 --> 00:42:53,791 I wanna show you where it happened. 864 00:42:58,010 --> 00:43:00,230 So my heart wants to think 865 00:43:01,230 --> 00:43:02,670 that he put me in the corner. 866 00:43:03,668 --> 00:43:04,798 So... 867 00:43:07,019 --> 00:43:08,539 when he walked away... 868 00:43:17,507 --> 00:43:19,287 This entire... 869 00:43:20,815 --> 00:43:22,985 journey to find my father, 870 00:43:23,035 --> 00:43:24,465 and then deal with it... 871 00:43:27,039 --> 00:43:28,259 has taken 872 00:43:29,258 --> 00:43:30,828 an undetermined toll... 873 00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:34,349 on me... 874 00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:37,050 and my family... 875 00:43:38,703 --> 00:43:41,713 but I would sit here and have to say that 876 00:43:43,490 --> 00:43:45,360 I would have to do it all over again. 877 00:43:50,279 --> 00:43:51,799 And, and I think 878 00:43:51,846 --> 00:43:54,846 I can continue this journey for another ten years... 879 00:43:57,809 --> 00:43:58,639 and never... 880 00:44:01,508 --> 00:44:02,378 never... 881 00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:05,380 f... 882 00:44:07,166 --> 00:44:10,166 never feel any better about me. 883 00:44:55,388 --> 00:44:56,908 Today is Friday the 13th? 884 00:44:57,346 --> 00:45:00,646 So I think tonight I'm justgonna get drunk as shit 885 00:45:01,220 --> 00:45:03,830 and sit outsideon that nice little lanai 886 00:45:03,875 --> 00:45:05,085 overlooking San Francisco 887 00:45:05,137 --> 00:45:06,697 and burn the fuck out of that book. 888 00:45:10,359 --> 00:45:11,799 Is that what you're going to put on film? 889 00:46:02,107 --> 00:46:03,847 Do I just knock, or what? What do you think? 890 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,719 I feel like they're not ever gonna... 891 00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:11,679 Why are you wearing your sunglasses inside? 892 00:46:11,725 --> 00:46:14,205 Bro, you know I gotta drip, bro.We're goin' to the studioright now. 893 00:46:15,076 --> 00:46:16,766 Snack Time. I didn't-- 894 00:46:16,904 --> 00:46:19,344 Okay. You're welcome. 895 00:46:20,778 --> 00:46:22,998 I feel like that did nothing for my career. 896 00:46:31,876 --> 00:46:32,916 - Mom. - Yes? 897 00:46:33,051 --> 00:46:35,491 - Okay. I want a big party this year. - Serious? 898 00:46:35,531 --> 00:46:37,801 - I want a quinceaƱera. - QuinceaƱera? 899 00:46:37,925 --> 00:46:41,015 We can't do that. We're too white for that. We're not allowed. 900 00:46:50,590 --> 00:46:53,550 Do me a favor?Never look me in the eye again. 901 00:46:53,593 --> 00:46:56,553 Okay? 'Cause your stare is way too intense. 902 00:46:56,596 --> 00:46:58,336 It's starting to make my hair fall out. 903 00:47:14,005 --> 00:47:14,825 Check! 904 00:47:16,485 --> 00:47:17,485 Check. 66363

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