All language subtitles for Stan Lees Mutants Monsters and Marvels (2002)en

af Afrikaans
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bn Bengali
bs Bosnian
bg Bulgarian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
km Khmer
ko Korean
ku Kurdish (Kurmanji)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Lao
la Latin
lv Latvian
lt Lithuanian
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
ne Nepali
no Norwegian
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt Portuguese
pa Punjabi
ro Romanian
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
st Sesotho
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhala
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish Download
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
te Telugu
th Thai
tr Turkish
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
or Odia (Oriya)
rw Kinyarwanda
tk Turkmen
tt Tatar
ug Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:21,589 --> 00:00:22,054 What year is Spider-Man? 2 00:00:23,891 --> 00:00:25,657 At what point do you create Spider-Man? 3 00:00:25,693 --> 00:00:28,334 Right after The Hulk, I think. 4 00:00:28,370 --> 00:00:31,104 Again, Martin said, "We're doing good. Let's do another one, Stan." 5 00:00:32,533 --> 00:00:34,900 So, when I was a kid, 6 00:00:34,935 --> 00:00:38,070 I had read a pulp magazine called The Spider, 7 00:00:39,540 --> 00:00:40,072 and I always liked it. 8 00:00:41,842 --> 00:00:43,700 But that isn't what gave me the idea. 9 00:00:43,736 --> 00:00:46,937 That's when I had to find a name. 10 00:00:46,972 --> 00:00:49,973 But what gave me the idea was, I wanted... 11 00:00:50,009 --> 00:00:52,943 You know, in superheroes, the most important thing 12 00:00:52,978 --> 00:00:55,912 is to get a new power, and you run out of powers. 13 00:00:55,948 --> 00:00:59,291 A guy can fly, a guy is strong, what's left? 14 00:00:59,326 --> 00:01:02,686 Figured if a guy could stick to walls, you know, like an insect... 15 00:01:02,721 --> 00:01:04,229 So I wrote down a list of names. 16 00:01:04,265 --> 00:01:08,658 "Insect-Man" didn't have it. "Mosquito-Man" wasn't dramatic. 17 00:01:08,694 --> 00:01:10,861 Finally, I hit on "Spider-Man." 18 00:01:10,896 --> 00:01:13,697 "Spider-Man." Man, that sounded dramatic. 19 00:01:13,732 --> 00:01:15,407 It had a ring to it. Still does. 20 00:01:15,443 --> 00:01:19,903 And then I remembered I had loved that pulp magazine called The Spider. 21 00:01:19,938 --> 00:01:22,806 And it was called The Spider, Master of Men. 22 00:01:22,841 --> 00:01:26,343 There was nothing spiderish about him. 23 00:01:26,378 --> 00:01:29,337 It was just a name he had. He was just a guy in a hat and, you know, 24 00:01:29,373 --> 00:01:31,314 he hit people. 25 00:01:31,350 --> 00:01:34,976 But I liked the name. So I thought, "I'll call him Spider-Man." 26 00:01:35,012 --> 00:01:37,846 When I proposed the name to Martin, my publisher... 27 00:01:37,881 --> 00:01:39,914 Now, he had been on board with everything, 28 00:01:39,950 --> 00:01:41,683 you know, The Fantastic Four, The Hulk... 29 00:01:41,718 --> 00:01:44,161 He thought I could do no wrong. 30 00:01:44,196 --> 00:01:46,688 So I told him about Spider-Man. He said, "You're crazy." 31 00:01:46,723 --> 00:01:49,824 Said, "Stan, people hate spiders. 32 00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:52,994 "You can't do a book called Spider-Man." 33 00:01:53,030 --> 00:01:54,729 And he said, "And you want him to be a teenager? 34 00:01:54,765 --> 00:01:57,065 "Teenagers can only be sidekicks." 35 00:01:59,178 --> 00:02:02,312 And then he said, "And you want him to have problems?" 36 00:02:02,347 --> 00:02:05,673 Because I told him I wanted him to worry about money, pimples... 37 00:02:05,709 --> 00:02:06,766 'Cause up until that point, 38 00:02:06,801 --> 00:02:09,210 the traditional heroes, people like... 39 00:02:09,246 --> 00:02:12,080 Well, The Fantastic Four, there were no money problems. 40 00:02:13,908 --> 00:02:15,942 Reed Richards is the brilliant inventor, 41 00:02:15,977 --> 00:02:19,254 and the problems were more on a cosmic scale. 42 00:02:19,289 --> 00:02:21,481 And their real-life... They didn't have real-life identities. 43 00:02:21,516 --> 00:02:23,016 I gave them later on, 44 00:02:23,093 --> 00:02:24,717 but you're right, in the beginning, they didn't. 45 00:02:24,753 --> 00:02:26,886 So Peter Parker and Spider-Man... 46 00:02:26,921 --> 00:02:28,921 Well, the Peter Parker half of Spider-Man 47 00:02:28,957 --> 00:02:32,333 is more like the first character to come along 48 00:02:32,369 --> 00:02:36,271 that actually had a life outside of the suit, where the problems 49 00:02:36,306 --> 00:02:38,106 were almost as epic as what he was facing while in costume. 50 00:02:39,768 --> 00:02:41,834 That's why "problems" were small, 51 00:02:41,870 --> 00:02:42,668 the problems that everybody deals with. 52 00:02:42,704 --> 00:02:44,837 That's just what I tried for. 53 00:02:44,873 --> 00:02:47,866 Basically, if we had a formula at all, 54 00:02:47,901 --> 00:02:51,077 the formula was, we know we're doing fantasy. 55 00:02:51,112 --> 00:02:54,873 We have guys who can fly, burst into flame, all that. 56 00:02:54,908 --> 00:02:58,677 But write them as realistically as possible. 57 00:02:58,712 --> 00:03:01,680 If those people really existed, 58 00:03:01,715 --> 00:03:03,749 what would their lives be like? 59 00:03:03,784 --> 00:03:05,851 And that's what I was trying to do. 60 00:03:05,886 --> 00:03:08,194 So, when I told Martin about it, he said, 61 00:03:08,229 --> 00:03:11,523 "Absolutely not. It's the dumbest idea I ever heard, Stan. 62 00:03:11,558 --> 00:03:12,057 "You've lost it, Stan." 63 00:03:14,135 --> 00:03:19,105 Well, I then did, I guess, The X-Men and a few others. 64 00:03:20,567 --> 00:03:23,376 Daredevil and Iron Man, 65 00:03:23,411 --> 00:03:25,704 and I can't remember chronologically whether it was before or after, 66 00:03:25,739 --> 00:03:27,447 but it was during that period. 67 00:03:27,482 --> 00:03:31,343 But I always felt, "I want to do Spider-Man." I thought it would be good. 68 00:03:31,378 --> 00:03:36,081 We had a magazine called Amazing Fantasy, which I did with Steve Ditko. 69 00:03:37,676 --> 00:03:39,709 He's really one of the greats. 70 00:03:39,745 --> 00:03:41,644 For some reason, I loved the book, 71 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,747 but they weren't superheroes. 72 00:03:43,782 --> 00:03:44,056 What it was, there was little five... 73 00:03:44,091 --> 00:03:46,616 KEVIN SMITH: Originally, it was Amazing Adult Fantasy. 74 00:03:46,651 --> 00:03:48,818 That's right. That's right. 75 00:03:48,854 --> 00:03:50,195 And I wanted stories for older readers, 76 00:03:50,230 --> 00:03:55,892 so I tried to write science-fiction stories, very short ones, 77 00:03:55,927 --> 00:03:58,236 with O. Henry endings, with surprise endings, 78 00:03:58,272 --> 00:04:02,340 and each book might have had four or five of those stories. 79 00:04:02,376 --> 00:04:05,110 I thought they were great, but they didn't feature men in tights. 80 00:04:06,180 --> 00:04:09,114 So the public, that wasn't what they wanted at that time. 81 00:04:10,742 --> 00:04:12,509 So we were gonna drop the book. 82 00:04:12,544 --> 00:04:16,337 Now, when you're putting out the last issue of a book, nobody really cares, 83 00:04:16,373 --> 00:04:19,149 you can do... 84 00:04:19,184 --> 00:04:22,152 So I figured, "Aha! I'm gonna put Spider-Man in there." 85 00:04:22,187 --> 00:04:26,456 I call Jack Kirby, who's so good at this sort of thing, 86 00:04:26,491 --> 00:04:28,616 and I said, "Jack, I want you to do a character of mine called Spider-Man." 87 00:04:28,651 --> 00:04:31,094 I told him what it should be. 88 00:04:31,129 --> 00:04:32,095 But I said, "Don't make him look like Captain America. 89 00:04:33,690 --> 00:04:36,466 "I want just an average guy." 90 00:04:36,501 --> 00:04:38,826 I was gonna say "like me," but, of course, I didn't think I was average. 91 00:04:38,862 --> 00:04:40,661 I thought of myself as Captain America. 92 00:04:40,697 --> 00:04:43,965 So he did the first few pages, 93 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,066 and I came over to his board and I looked at it, 94 00:04:47,037 --> 00:04:49,245 and I said, "No, that's not what I want, Jack." 95 00:04:49,281 --> 00:04:49,804 I said, "Look, forget it. I'll give it to somebody else." 96 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,148 It was too bold, too heroic, too bulky. 97 00:04:52,184 --> 00:04:54,668 Yeah, the guy looked like you. He looked really heroic. 98 00:04:54,703 --> 00:04:56,937 Yeah, and I'm not Spider-Man. 99 00:04:56,972 --> 00:04:58,872 So, Jack said, "Fine." You know, it was nothing. 100 00:04:58,907 --> 00:05:00,040 We didn't think Spider-Man meant anything. 101 00:05:01,910 --> 00:05:02,042 And Jack had a million other things to do. 102 00:05:04,087 --> 00:05:05,979 I said, "I'll get somebody else." He said, "Sure." 103 00:05:06,015 --> 00:05:09,016 I thought, "Steve Ditko would be perfect for it." 104 00:05:09,092 --> 00:05:10,784 He drew people that looked like the kind of people 105 00:05:10,819 --> 00:05:13,428 you'd meet in the street, you know? 106 00:05:13,463 --> 00:05:17,924 So, I gave it to Steve, and, oh, man, was I ever right in picking Steve. 107 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,268 He did a beautiful job. And we published it. 108 00:05:20,303 --> 00:05:23,397 We put it on the cover of the last issue of Amazing whatever. 109 00:05:23,432 --> 00:05:25,832 Amazing Fantasy. 110 00:05:25,868 --> 00:05:29,036 And, um, sent it out and forgot about it. 111 00:05:29,112 --> 00:05:31,772 Months later, after the sales figures kicked in... 112 00:05:31,807 --> 00:05:33,314 It takes months, or it took months... 113 00:05:33,349 --> 00:05:35,300 'Cause back in the day, it'd take almost nine months, I read, 114 00:05:35,335 --> 00:05:38,178 A long time. 115 00:05:38,213 --> 00:05:41,439 The figures came out, and Martin came in to me one day, 116 00:05:41,475 --> 00:05:43,550 and he said, "Stan, 117 00:05:43,585 --> 00:05:46,277 "do you remember that Spider-Man character of yours that we both liked so much?" 118 00:05:46,313 --> 00:05:47,946 (CHUCKLES) 119 00:05:47,981 --> 00:05:50,382 And he said, "How about doing a series of him?" 120 00:05:50,417 --> 00:05:53,418 And you know... 121 00:05:53,453 --> 00:05:54,052 And there we were. 122 00:06:01,995 --> 00:06:05,505 What do you think about Spider-Man caught on? 123 00:06:05,541 --> 00:06:08,108 Do you think it was really just the "I can relate to this guy" aspect of it? 124 00:06:09,803 --> 00:06:12,345 I think there were a lot of reasons. 125 00:06:12,381 --> 00:06:16,183 I think perhaps the main reason was the "I can relate to him." 126 00:06:16,218 --> 00:06:19,702 'Cause he was shy. He wasn't that successful with girls. 127 00:06:19,738 --> 00:06:22,705 He had to worry about his family. 128 00:06:22,741 --> 00:06:25,908 I think most teenagers reading it 129 00:06:25,944 --> 00:06:27,052 thought to themselves, "Hey, that could be me!" 130 00:06:27,087 --> 00:06:31,981 You know, so there certainly was that identification. 131 00:06:32,017 --> 00:06:39,422 But beyond that, I think, I must say, truthfully, 132 00:06:39,457 --> 00:06:40,423 You know, Doc Ock,I came up with some great stories 133 00:06:40,458 --> 00:06:42,458 the Green Goblin, 134 00:06:42,494 --> 00:06:43,059 the Sandman, and... 135 00:06:44,462 --> 00:06:45,361 Everything worked. 136 00:06:45,397 --> 00:06:47,663 And visually, 137 00:06:47,699 --> 00:06:48,106 Very striking character, too. 138 00:06:48,141 --> 00:06:51,734 'Cause the way Steve would have him crawling on walls 139 00:06:51,770 --> 00:06:54,771 and swinging on webs, it just... 140 00:06:54,806 --> 00:06:56,406 Everything came together perfectly. 141 00:06:56,441 --> 00:06:59,208 And it's very... 142 00:06:59,244 --> 00:07:01,702 One of the very few comic book characters, even back then, 143 00:07:01,738 --> 00:07:04,347 that was covered from head to toe. 144 00:07:04,382 --> 00:07:07,008 Like, even Captain America, you still have this much of his face. 145 00:07:07,085 --> 00:07:08,743 Spider-Man's completely enveloped in his costume. 146 00:07:08,778 --> 00:07:11,479 You know the good thing about that? 147 00:07:11,514 --> 00:07:13,814 You could be any kid. 148 00:07:13,850 --> 00:07:16,851 You could be black. You could be Asian. 149 00:07:16,886 --> 00:07:19,787 You could be Indian. You could be anything, 150 00:07:19,822 --> 00:07:23,166 and imagine you were in that costume. 151 00:07:23,201 --> 00:07:27,528 So I think that made it relevant to everybody everywhere. 152 00:07:27,563 --> 00:07:29,338 And that was accidental. 153 00:07:29,374 --> 00:07:33,567 I don't think we planned it that way, but it was very fortuitous. 154 00:07:33,603 --> 00:07:35,970 You get credited with... 155 00:07:36,005 --> 00:07:36,070 And I know you're not even comfortable with it, 156 00:07:37,874 --> 00:07:39,006 with creator of this, creator of this. 157 00:07:39,042 --> 00:07:41,768 And you're always the first person in the room 158 00:07:41,803 --> 00:07:44,178 to point out that it wasn't just you. 159 00:07:44,213 --> 00:07:46,080 As you said before, it was a very collaborative medium. 160 00:07:48,744 --> 00:07:50,577 And I know there are people that... 161 00:07:50,612 --> 00:07:53,554 In the case of Jack Kirby, 162 00:07:53,589 --> 00:07:55,949 "Oh, there must be a point of contention between Stan and Jack," blah, blah, blah. 163 00:07:55,984 --> 00:07:59,493 And that's not the case. Let's talk about that. 164 00:07:59,529 --> 00:08:03,723 Well, what happened was, Steve is really the guy who brought this to a point. 165 00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:07,401 Obviously, Spider-Man was my idea. 166 00:08:07,437 --> 00:08:09,662 Even gave it to Jack first, didn't want it, then gave it to Steve. 167 00:08:09,698 --> 00:08:12,699 Steve feels since he drew it, 168 00:08:12,734 --> 00:08:15,068 and gave it life, so to speak, 169 00:08:16,805 --> 00:08:21,566 that he created it as much as I did. 170 00:08:21,601 --> 00:08:24,902 Now, in my heart of hearts, 171 00:08:24,938 --> 00:08:27,572 I feel the guy who comes up with the concept 172 00:08:27,607 --> 00:08:29,807 is the guy who created it. 173 00:08:29,843 --> 00:08:33,119 But Steve feels, and I hope he doesn't... 174 00:08:33,155 --> 00:08:37,424 When he sees this, doesn't feel I'm quoting him wrong. 175 00:08:37,459 --> 00:08:43,196 He feels that the person who physically gives it life is the co-creator, 176 00:08:43,231 --> 00:08:46,099 otherwise, all I had was an idea which was nothing solid. 177 00:08:47,894 --> 00:08:49,060 Now, while I don't really agree with that, 178 00:08:51,306 --> 00:08:54,832 I have enough respect for Steve, and for the other artists, 179 00:08:54,868 --> 00:08:58,144 that I am very happy and very comfortable 180 00:08:58,180 --> 00:09:00,638 to call myself the co-creator of all of these things. 181 00:09:00,673 --> 00:09:03,007 And you coined the phrase, 182 00:09:03,043 --> 00:09:04,108 "With great power comes great responsibility." 183 00:09:04,144 --> 00:09:07,278 Which everyone that knows Spider-Man knows that line. 184 00:09:07,313 --> 00:09:10,248 You know, it's funny. I never thought it would catch on that way, 185 00:09:10,283 --> 00:09:13,051 but sometimes people'll meet me, "Hey, didn't you do Spider-Man?" 186 00:09:13,086 --> 00:09:16,612 I'll say "Yeah." They'll say, "With great power..." 187 00:09:16,647 --> 00:09:18,356 It's incredible! I love it. 188 00:09:18,391 --> 00:09:23,452 So at what point do you hand over the reins of Spider-Man, and to whom? 189 00:09:23,488 --> 00:09:25,955 And was that tough? 190 00:09:25,990 --> 00:09:28,991 Well, artistically, Steve eventually left after, 191 00:09:29,027 --> 00:09:32,828 I don't know, 20, 30, 40, some amount of books, 192 00:09:32,864 --> 00:09:35,798 and John Romita took over as the artist. 193 00:09:35,833 --> 00:09:37,108 And I said to him, "You know, John..." 194 00:09:37,143 --> 00:09:41,003 John doesn't draw like Steve. His style is different. 195 00:09:41,039 --> 00:09:42,938 But I said, "We don't want to disturb the readers 196 00:09:42,974 --> 00:09:46,242 "by suddenly seeing a totally different style. 197 00:09:46,277 --> 00:09:49,704 "Do you think you could make it look like Steve for a while?" 198 00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:53,182 Bless him. He did such a great job. 199 00:09:53,217 --> 00:09:55,084 Those first few issues looked like Steve had done them. 200 00:09:57,422 --> 00:09:59,581 But then, little by little, he began to draw it in his own style, 201 00:09:59,616 --> 00:10:01,816 and it became his strip. 202 00:10:01,852 --> 00:10:03,051 And years later, other artists took over, 203 00:10:05,163 --> 00:10:08,330 and no matter how it was drawn, no matter who drew it, 204 00:10:08,366 --> 00:10:11,100 the strip was always, I'm happy to say, powerful and successful. 205 00:10:13,630 --> 00:10:14,896 Now, who wrote after you? 206 00:10:14,931 --> 00:10:18,474 Oh, after me? Well, let's see. I think... 207 00:10:18,509 --> 00:10:20,969 The first guy. I mean, there have been a zillion Spider-Man writers, but... 208 00:10:21,004 --> 00:10:23,279 I think it was probably Roy Thomas, because... 209 00:10:23,314 --> 00:10:27,075 What happened was, I think around 1970, I became the publisher, 210 00:10:29,513 --> 00:10:33,515 and I didn't have the time to write all the stories, or hardly any stories, 211 00:10:33,550 --> 00:10:35,608 so I had to look around for somebody who could do the editing and the writing 212 00:10:35,643 --> 00:10:39,120 and handle the art direction. 213 00:10:39,156 --> 00:10:42,915 And Roy Thomas I considered my best writer at the time. 214 00:10:42,951 --> 00:10:46,528 Very bright guy, and a sincere, dedicated guy. 215 00:10:46,563 --> 00:10:50,098 So I made him the editor, and he wrote Spider-Man and a number of other books. 216 00:10:58,308 --> 00:11:01,109 In order to talk about Spider-Man and the Spider-Man family 217 00:11:02,804 --> 00:11:05,313 and everything that you accomplished 218 00:11:05,348 --> 00:11:09,075 in the 11, 12 pages of Amazing Fantasy that still holds up today, 219 00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:15,248 all one has to do is look at something like Superman or Batman. 220 00:11:15,283 --> 00:11:17,083 Superman's origin has changed many times throughout the years, 221 00:11:18,711 --> 00:11:20,811 as well as the character itself. 222 00:11:20,847 --> 00:11:22,613 His origins changed? I didn't know that. 223 00:11:22,648 --> 00:11:23,914 His origins changed a bunch. 224 00:11:23,950 --> 00:11:27,160 Sometimes Krypton is a very sterile world. 225 00:11:27,195 --> 00:11:30,263 Sometimes it's a world where you got to know the family. 226 00:11:30,298 --> 00:11:33,466 They're bringing that back a little more in the comics now. 227 00:11:33,501 --> 00:11:38,304 But the Superman family has kind of gone through some varied incarnations. 228 00:11:38,339 --> 00:11:41,474 John Byrne did the revamp, you know, in the '80s and whatnot. 229 00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:45,278 But Superman, when Siegel and Shuster first came up with the character, 230 00:11:45,313 --> 00:11:48,606 you have a character that can leap very tall but didn't fly. 231 00:11:48,641 --> 00:11:49,707 Leaped over tall buildings. 232 00:11:49,742 --> 00:11:51,108 Tall buildings in a single bound. 233 00:11:51,144 --> 00:11:55,246 Batman has gone through various incarnations as well. 234 00:11:55,281 --> 00:11:59,150 The original Bob Kane story has gone through a campier version 235 00:11:59,185 --> 00:12:02,778 to kind of bring it back to its origins a little bit more. 236 00:12:02,813 --> 00:12:04,613 Spider-Man, though, on the other hand, 237 00:12:04,648 --> 00:12:06,815 has always remained constant. 238 00:12:06,851 --> 00:12:09,718 The back story has never really altered. 239 00:12:09,754 --> 00:12:10,786 Some people have tried to tweak it, 240 00:12:10,821 --> 00:12:14,065 but it's always what you and Ditko did 241 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:18,102 in that original 11, 12-page Amazing Fantasy story. 242 00:12:19,830 --> 00:12:20,829 And that's, I think, a true testimony 243 00:12:20,865 --> 00:12:23,699 to what you guys were able to accomplish 244 00:12:23,734 --> 00:12:24,666 in a very short amount of time, 245 00:12:24,702 --> 00:12:26,310 very short amount of pages. 246 00:12:26,345 --> 00:12:30,005 You set up the world that still exists today for that character, 247 00:12:30,041 --> 00:12:32,000 then when you went on to write the Spider-Man book 248 00:12:32,076 --> 00:12:35,210 outside of Amazing Fantasy, you set up characters 249 00:12:35,246 --> 00:12:37,079 that are still involved in the Spider-Man mythos today. 250 00:12:38,541 --> 00:12:39,974 Uncle Ben and Aunt May, 251 00:12:40,010 --> 00:12:43,878 not a traditional take on the familial upbringing. 252 00:12:43,913 --> 00:12:45,913 Like, Peter Parker's parents weren't around. 253 00:12:45,949 --> 00:12:48,716 He was being raised by Aunt and Uncle. Why? 254 00:12:48,752 --> 00:12:50,051 Well, I wanted to give him a reason 255 00:12:51,454 --> 00:12:54,922 to be a superhero. 256 00:12:54,958 --> 00:12:57,366 In other words, even if you get a superpower, 257 00:12:57,401 --> 00:13:00,962 why are you gonna spend your life risking your life fighting crooks? 258 00:13:00,997 --> 00:13:03,138 And you did the sensible thing in the story, 259 00:13:03,174 --> 00:13:05,900 which most people would, I think, take upon themselves 260 00:13:05,935 --> 00:13:07,769 if they were bitten by a radioactive spider 261 00:13:07,804 --> 00:13:09,037 and they were given the abilities, 262 00:13:09,113 --> 00:13:11,146 they wouldn't necessarily think, "I'll fight crime." 263 00:13:11,182 --> 00:13:12,874 They're like, "I'm gonna make some money off of this." 264 00:13:12,909 --> 00:13:14,242 (CHUCKLING) That's sure what I would do! 265 00:13:14,277 --> 00:13:16,969 The first thing I would do is... Well, he's not around anymore. 266 00:13:17,005 --> 00:13:20,081 I was gonna say I'd get on The Ed Sullivan Show, 267 00:13:20,116 --> 00:13:22,942 but I'd certainly wanna get on Jay Leno or Letterman, 268 00:13:22,977 --> 00:13:26,679 and I'd wanna be exploited and get paid for it. 269 00:13:26,714 --> 00:13:29,749 So I figured if I made him a guy 270 00:13:29,784 --> 00:13:34,495 who has to have a reason, a motive, 271 00:13:34,531 --> 00:13:37,098 if he could think that he's responsible in a way for the death of his uncle. 272 00:13:38,826 --> 00:13:40,659 I mean, what a motive that would be. 273 00:13:40,695 --> 00:13:42,928 That's when I wrote that line, 274 00:13:42,964 --> 00:13:46,999 "With great power, comes great responsibility." 275 00:13:47,035 --> 00:13:50,770 And, um, I liked the idea of his aunt as surviving 276 00:13:50,805 --> 00:13:54,774 and making her always ill, so that... 277 00:13:54,809 --> 00:13:57,968 Because to keep a story interesting, 278 00:13:58,004 --> 00:14:01,247 one of the best things you can do with a character 279 00:14:01,282 --> 00:14:05,642 is put him in a position where he has to make a life choice. 280 00:14:05,678 --> 00:14:08,045 For example, if he goes north, 281 00:14:10,258 --> 00:14:13,917 he can fight the villain who is about to blow up the world. 282 00:14:13,953 --> 00:14:17,530 But if he heads south, he can reach a drugstore 283 00:14:17,565 --> 00:14:21,492 which has the life-saving medicine that his aunt needs within the next hour. 284 00:14:21,527 --> 00:14:23,827 Now, he can't do both. 285 00:14:23,863 --> 00:14:25,996 Is he gonna let the world get blown up, 286 00:14:26,032 --> 00:14:28,065 or is he gonna let his aunt die? What does he do? 287 00:14:29,835 --> 00:14:32,002 When you can get situations like that, 288 00:14:32,038 --> 00:14:34,738 you know you're gonna hold the reader's interest. 289 00:14:34,774 --> 00:14:37,274 So, by him having an ailing aunt, 290 00:14:37,309 --> 00:14:42,939 I always had an excuse for him not to be able to just get out there 291 00:14:42,974 --> 00:14:45,008 and fight the crooks without a care in the world, 292 00:14:45,010 --> 00:14:47,944 but he always had that worry: "Is Aunt May okay?" 293 00:14:47,979 --> 00:14:49,119 Another thing that you always think about is, 294 00:14:49,155 --> 00:14:53,616 "Why doesn't a superhero tell the world he's a superhero 295 00:14:53,651 --> 00:14:56,686 "and bask in the adulation?" 296 00:14:56,721 --> 00:14:58,688 Well, I had to give him a reason. 297 00:14:58,723 --> 00:15:01,958 His aunt, who had a weak heart, 298 00:15:01,993 --> 00:15:05,069 he's the only relative she has left, her nephew. 299 00:15:05,104 --> 00:15:09,239 She loves him. He's her world. She worries about him. 300 00:15:09,275 --> 00:15:12,368 She makes him put on galoshes if it looks like it's gonna snow, 301 00:15:12,404 --> 00:15:14,411 and so forth. 302 00:15:14,447 --> 00:15:18,599 How could he tell her he's Spider-Man, who's out there risking his life? 303 00:15:18,634 --> 00:15:21,702 So again, he has a problem. 304 00:15:21,738 --> 00:15:23,037 He must never let his aunt know. 305 00:15:25,183 --> 00:15:27,083 I think that worked out best in one story that we did 306 00:15:29,254 --> 00:15:32,088 where one of his main villains, Doc Ock, Doctor Octopus, 307 00:15:33,816 --> 00:15:36,817 develops a relationship with Aunt May. 308 00:15:36,853 --> 00:15:38,052 Aunt May kind of gets a crush on him. 309 00:15:39,922 --> 00:15:43,024 Peter Parker knows that Doc Ock is a villain, 310 00:15:43,101 --> 00:15:46,727 but Doc Ock doesn't know Peter Parker is Spider-Man. 311 00:15:46,763 --> 00:15:50,031 Aunt may invites him to her house. 312 00:15:50,108 --> 00:15:53,567 There is Peter sitting with his most deadly villain, 313 00:15:53,603 --> 00:15:55,870 but he can't say anything. 314 00:15:55,905 --> 00:15:58,839 And he doesn't even want to hurt Doc Ock, 315 00:15:58,875 --> 00:16:02,576 'cause it would break Aunt May's heart. 316 00:16:02,612 --> 00:16:05,971 I mean, my God, that's something that the old Russian novelists would have loved. 317 00:16:06,007 --> 00:16:09,908 Right, right. Deep pathos. Talking about Doc Ock, 318 00:16:09,944 --> 00:16:11,810 where does a character like Doc Ock come from? 319 00:16:11,846 --> 00:16:12,945 Is it first the name, and you're like, 320 00:16:12,980 --> 00:16:14,880 "Well, we'll find a guy to live into the name"? 321 00:16:14,915 --> 00:16:16,749 Or is it the idea of the dude with the arms, 322 00:16:16,784 --> 00:16:18,984 and then, "Ooh, I know. 'Doc Ock.'" 323 00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:22,329 Exactly. Once you have your superhero, you're set. 324 00:16:22,365 --> 00:16:26,200 But the big problem is, every month coming up with a new villain. 325 00:16:26,235 --> 00:16:29,395 It occurred to me a guy with tentacles that are like arms 326 00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:31,964 would be great. 327 00:16:31,999 --> 00:16:36,210 So, the obvious name, it didn't take very long, 328 00:16:36,245 --> 00:16:39,580 was to call him Doc... Oh, and they're always scientists. 329 00:16:39,615 --> 00:16:43,108 They have to be scientists, or else how the hell did they invent this thing? 330 00:16:43,144 --> 00:16:45,970 So he was a doctor, or it could have been a professor. 331 00:16:46,006 --> 00:16:48,773 But in fact, I might have thought professor first, 332 00:16:48,808 --> 00:16:52,151 but then I thought, "Doctor Octopus." 333 00:16:52,186 --> 00:16:55,154 And then I thought, "'Doc Ock.' What a perfect nickname." 334 00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:57,982 It couldn't have been "Prof. Ock." It wouldn't have sat. 335 00:16:58,018 --> 00:17:01,326 So that's why he was a doctor and not a professor. 336 00:17:01,362 --> 00:17:05,364 So, I came up with the name Doctor Octopus, as we just mentioned. 337 00:17:05,399 --> 00:17:08,100 I love nicknames. For instance, Spider-Man, I called him "Spidey." 338 00:17:09,796 --> 00:17:12,764 Nobody ever called Batman "Batty," 339 00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:15,374 they never called Superman "Supie," 340 00:17:15,409 --> 00:17:18,110 they called him "Supes," which I never felt was a great nickname. 341 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,473 I love calling Iron Man "Shellhead," 342 00:17:22,509 --> 00:17:24,667 Thor, "Goldilocks." 343 00:17:24,702 --> 00:17:27,536 Captain America was Winghead... 344 00:17:27,572 --> 00:17:28,046 Daredevil was Hornhead. 345 00:17:28,081 --> 00:17:31,082 Oh, yeah, Daredevil was called Hornhead, and, um... 346 00:17:32,944 --> 00:17:37,422 I always felt the readers would understand. 347 00:17:37,457 --> 00:17:40,591 It's not that they would think you didn't take your characters seriously, 348 00:17:40,627 --> 00:17:44,095 but, you were being realistic. You knew them well enough to give them a nickname. 349 00:17:50,661 --> 00:17:51,169 Last year, or two years ago, 350 00:17:51,204 --> 00:17:54,897 Marvel kind of broke their bad streak of movie properties. 351 00:17:54,932 --> 00:17:57,066 For a while, DC, and through Warner Brothers, 352 00:17:58,970 --> 00:18:01,112 had Batman. Well, before Batman, Superman, 353 00:18:01,147 --> 00:18:03,114 and I always felt that they didn't even have properties 354 00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:09,003 that lent themselves to cinema as much as Marvel did. 355 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,005 Marvel's set being very science-fiction oriented, 356 00:18:11,082 --> 00:18:13,007 perfect movies on the page, you know, no-brainers. 357 00:18:13,084 --> 00:18:14,083 And for a while, Marvel couldn't make that happen. 358 00:18:16,421 --> 00:18:20,122 Then Bryan Singer's X-Men kind of punched through in a big, big way, 359 00:18:20,158 --> 00:18:25,428 and for years, Spider-Man was held up in legal limbo. 360 00:18:25,463 --> 00:18:28,264 James Cameron was gonna do a movie at one point with Leonardo DiCaprio, 361 00:18:28,299 --> 00:18:32,201 and finally, this year we're gonna see the Spider-Man movie, 362 00:18:32,236 --> 00:18:35,029 which, some would say, is about 20 years in the making. 363 00:18:35,106 --> 00:18:37,498 People have been waiting for the Spider-Man movie. 364 00:18:37,533 --> 00:18:40,109 That's gotta jazz you. 365 00:18:40,144 --> 00:18:43,837 Oh, it more than jazzes me. It's almost unbelievable. 366 00:18:43,873 --> 00:18:47,149 I don't think there's ever been a time 367 00:18:47,185 --> 00:18:51,603 when the product of one company is gonna be represented 368 00:18:51,638 --> 00:18:54,039 so much in movies. I mean... 369 00:18:55,676 --> 00:18:56,875 You know, starting with Blade, 370 00:18:56,910 --> 00:18:58,043 that was really the first one that did well. 371 00:18:59,580 --> 00:19:00,679 That's true, that's true. 372 00:19:00,714 --> 00:19:02,981 Obviously, X-Men was a huge hit. 373 00:19:03,017 --> 00:19:04,916 Well, they're working on the sequel to X-Men now, 374 00:19:04,952 --> 00:19:07,052 and on the third issue, on the third movie. 375 00:19:09,432 --> 00:19:12,657 Spider-Man will open up. They're already planning the sequel to that. 376 00:19:12,693 --> 00:19:14,993 Daredevil, I think, will be... 377 00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:16,628 No, The Hulk will be next. Then comes Daredevil. 378 00:19:16,663 --> 00:19:18,964 Daredevil first, then Hulk. 379 00:19:18,999 --> 00:19:20,065 Is that how it is? Daredevil then Hulk? Okay. 380 00:19:22,036 --> 00:19:25,003 Then there's, I think, Ghost Rider is in the works. 381 00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:28,382 Iron Man is in the works, and it goes on and on. 382 00:19:28,417 --> 00:19:30,901 It's a great time to be a Marvel fan if you're into movies as well. 383 00:19:30,937 --> 00:19:33,871 Oh, man, yeah. And the beautiful thing is, 384 00:19:33,906 --> 00:19:36,674 today there is nothing that you can imagine 385 00:19:36,709 --> 00:19:38,943 that can't be put on the screen. 386 00:19:38,978 --> 00:19:43,514 So these can all be big-budget, powerful movies. 387 00:19:43,549 --> 00:19:45,850 And I think that Blade, 388 00:19:45,885 --> 00:19:49,227 and certainly X-Men done by Bryan Singer, 389 00:19:49,263 --> 00:19:54,132 have proven it's possible to not only get the young fans, 390 00:19:54,168 --> 00:19:56,101 but get adults, people who just go to see a good movie, 391 00:19:57,363 --> 00:19:58,829 Absolutely. 392 00:19:58,865 --> 00:20:02,900 So, I'm hoping, and I'm sure they will, 393 00:20:02,935 --> 00:20:05,936 that the movies done of the Marvel characters 394 00:20:05,972 --> 00:20:09,774 will be done in a good, adult way, you know? 395 00:20:09,809 --> 00:20:11,767 So, besides all the colorful stuff, 396 00:20:11,802 --> 00:20:13,477 which we know people will go to see, 397 00:20:13,513 --> 00:20:19,083 there'll be solid stories, with solid characters and solid characterization, 398 00:20:19,118 --> 00:20:22,186 'cause I think that's what Marvel has always been about. 399 00:20:22,221 --> 00:20:25,681 Now, the fact that they stay very close to the comic as well, 400 00:20:25,716 --> 00:20:27,983 in terms of origins, characters, 401 00:20:28,019 --> 00:20:30,194 they don't take a character and keep the name 402 00:20:30,229 --> 00:20:33,397 and get rid of everything else and kind of revamp or redo, 403 00:20:33,433 --> 00:20:37,826 or present something that readers wouldn't be familiar with in the movie, 404 00:20:37,862 --> 00:20:39,728 that has to do something for you as well. 405 00:20:39,764 --> 00:20:41,897 You've seen the Spider-Man movie, 406 00:20:41,932 --> 00:20:44,308 and you're watching your creation played out 407 00:20:44,343 --> 00:20:48,037 pretty much as you wrote it way back when you did Amazing Fantasy. 408 00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:51,073 It's really an indescribable feeling that you get. 409 00:20:52,768 --> 00:20:53,033 I mean, you look at that and you say, 410 00:20:54,670 --> 00:20:56,803 "Hey! That's mine!" It's nice. 411 00:20:56,839 --> 00:20:59,840 Especially, when you see it so well done. 412 00:20:59,875 --> 00:21:01,742 So if there's anything that's gonna keep 413 00:21:01,777 --> 00:21:04,845 Spider-Man, the movie, the new movie, 414 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,948 from making 200, 300, 400 million bucks, 415 00:21:07,983 --> 00:21:11,952 it's the fact that your cameo has been cut out. 416 00:21:11,987 --> 00:21:14,054 Yeah, they had this big chance for immortality, 417 00:21:15,891 --> 00:21:17,557 and I ended up on the cutting room floor. 418 00:21:17,593 --> 00:21:19,401 The story of your life. 419 00:21:19,437 --> 00:21:24,273 I was selling sunglasses in the street in this scene, in Times Square. 420 00:21:24,308 --> 00:21:27,142 You know, these peddlers, they have a little flat suitcase, 421 00:21:27,178 --> 00:21:29,111 they open it up with four legs and they're in business. 422 00:21:30,973 --> 00:21:32,181 There was a little girl standing next to me, 423 00:21:32,216 --> 00:21:37,411 I'm trying the glasses on her, and Peter Parker walks by. 424 00:21:37,446 --> 00:21:40,840 So, I take the glasses and I go, "Hey, would you like a pair of these? 425 00:21:40,875 --> 00:21:42,041 "They're the kind they wore in the X-Men." 426 00:21:44,286 --> 00:21:47,187 I think that would've gotten the greatest laugh in the world. 427 00:21:47,222 --> 00:21:50,516 Maybe they ended up not wanting that laugh, I don't know. 428 00:21:50,551 --> 00:21:52,852 At any rate, after that, 429 00:21:52,887 --> 00:21:55,888 the Green Goblin comes in and drops a bomb 430 00:21:55,923 --> 00:21:59,859 and everybody runs like crazy, including me. 431 00:21:59,894 --> 00:22:01,961 After the scene was shot, I said to Sam... 432 00:22:01,996 --> 00:22:04,864 The director, Sam Raimi. I said, "Sam, you know, 433 00:22:04,899 --> 00:22:08,241 "I don't like the way that makes me look. 434 00:22:08,277 --> 00:22:10,803 "I mean, I'm leaving that little girl, running for my life. 435 00:22:10,838 --> 00:22:12,705 "I should carry her with me, you know? 436 00:22:12,740 --> 00:22:14,840 "Like I'm a hero or something." 437 00:22:14,876 --> 00:22:17,209 So, Sam said, "Okay, we'll do it again." 438 00:22:17,245 --> 00:22:20,804 So, we take a second take, the bomb drops, I grab the girl, 439 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,407 I start to lift her, I start to lift her, 440 00:22:23,442 --> 00:22:24,408 I try to lift her, 441 00:22:24,443 --> 00:22:25,576 I cannot lift her. 442 00:22:25,611 --> 00:22:28,012 (LAUGHING) She's too heavy! 443 00:22:28,089 --> 00:22:30,089 She's only about 12-years-old, I couldn't lift her! 444 00:22:31,751 --> 00:22:33,951 All of a sudden Sam yells, "Cut!" 445 00:22:33,986 --> 00:22:36,787 And I thought he said one of the funniest lines. 446 00:22:36,822 --> 00:22:38,722 He said, "Stan, if we do it your way, 447 00:22:38,758 --> 00:22:40,391 "this is gonna be a mini-series." 448 00:22:40,426 --> 00:22:42,726 (BOTH LAUGHING) 449 00:22:42,762 --> 00:22:44,928 So, we ended up shooting it again, 450 00:22:44,964 --> 00:22:46,730 where I just take her by the hand and run out. 451 00:22:46,766 --> 00:22:50,576 Anyway, I thought that line about, 452 00:22:50,611 --> 00:22:52,569 "Would you like to buy these? They're like the kind they wore in the X-Men," 453 00:22:52,605 --> 00:22:55,281 that would make the movie! 454 00:22:55,316 --> 00:22:57,041 Like the Superman movie, where he walked into the phone booth 455 00:22:57,076 --> 00:22:59,076 and he couldn't change, and everybody remembered that. 456 00:23:00,704 --> 00:23:01,045 Now, Spider-Man's gone through 457 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,448 a bunch of different incarnations outside of comics. 458 00:23:04,483 --> 00:23:09,611 Most people, of course, remember the early '60s cartoon with the theme song, 459 00:23:09,646 --> 00:23:11,255 ¶ Spider-Man Spider-Man ¶ 460 00:23:11,290 --> 00:23:13,215 And all that artwork is based heavily on the comic book artwork. 461 00:23:13,250 --> 00:23:15,159 Yeah. 462 00:23:15,194 --> 00:23:18,687 They were almost cutouts, and they'd move the mouths only, 463 00:23:18,722 --> 00:23:19,788 but it looked very much like... 464 00:23:19,823 --> 00:23:20,055 That was very high-tech in those days. 465 00:23:21,425 --> 00:23:22,299 Very high-tech. 466 00:23:22,334 --> 00:23:26,795 But anyone who grew up in the late '70s, early '80s, like myself, 467 00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:28,105 and watched Saturday morning cartoons 468 00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:33,969 can close their eyes and recognize you as the voice 469 00:23:34,004 --> 00:23:36,772 that narrated Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends. 470 00:23:36,807 --> 00:23:39,032 That unmistakable, legendary voice. 471 00:23:40,902 --> 00:23:42,635 Now, that's the funniest thing, 'cause... 472 00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:44,771 My voice must sound different 473 00:23:44,806 --> 00:23:45,038 to other people than it sounds to me. 474 00:23:46,842 --> 00:23:47,407 To me, it's a voice, a guy from New York. 475 00:23:47,442 --> 00:23:49,376 It's a sexy voice. 476 00:23:49,411 --> 00:23:50,944 Oh, I like that. 477 00:23:50,979 --> 00:23:53,913 But, just the other day, I was in an elevator, 478 00:23:53,949 --> 00:23:55,782 going in an office building and guy next to... 479 00:23:55,817 --> 00:23:58,093 I was talking to the fellow next to me. 480 00:23:58,128 --> 00:24:00,587 Another man standing there said, "Aren't you Stan Lee?" 481 00:24:00,622 --> 00:24:01,721 I said, "How do you know?" 482 00:24:01,757 --> 00:24:03,490 He said, "I recognized your voice." 483 00:24:03,525 --> 00:24:04,624 I said, "From where?" 484 00:24:04,659 --> 00:24:06,693 He said, "From the cartoons." 485 00:24:06,728 --> 00:24:08,762 Now, that absolutely floored me, 486 00:24:08,797 --> 00:24:10,497 and it's happened to me a few times. 487 00:24:10,532 --> 00:24:14,801 I mean, I guess my... 488 00:24:14,836 --> 00:24:17,212 Why doesn't my wife react that way? 489 00:24:17,247 --> 00:24:18,113 She never thought it was the sexiest voice in the world. 490 00:24:19,741 --> 00:24:20,399 How long have you been married? 491 00:24:20,434 --> 00:24:21,800 Fifty-four years. 492 00:24:21,836 --> 00:24:22,601 She must like something about the voice. 493 00:24:22,636 --> 00:24:25,145 Give me a little more time. 494 00:24:25,180 --> 00:24:27,280 How did you get into Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends? 495 00:24:27,315 --> 00:24:30,709 Did they approach you and say, "We want you to be the narrator"? 496 00:24:30,745 --> 00:24:32,845 I imagine so. It was so long ago, 497 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,447 but, as you know, I'm not shy about the... 498 00:24:35,483 --> 00:24:36,749 I might very well... 499 00:24:36,784 --> 00:24:38,884 You're no press whore, you. I mean... 500 00:24:38,919 --> 00:24:40,886 I might just very well have said, "Hey, guys, 501 00:24:40,921 --> 00:24:42,221 "you're gonna need a narrator! How about me?" 502 00:24:42,256 --> 00:24:43,055 Right. 503 00:24:48,796 --> 00:24:52,238 So, in the movie, aside, of course, 504 00:24:52,274 --> 00:24:53,665 from Spider-Man and the Green Goblin characters you created, 505 00:24:53,701 --> 00:24:55,234 Mary Jane you created as well? 506 00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:57,243 Right. 507 00:24:57,279 --> 00:24:59,705 Watching that character go from the page to the screen... 508 00:24:59,740 --> 00:25:01,073 Let's take her back to the page. 509 00:25:02,901 --> 00:25:05,469 Where did the notion of Mary Jane come from? 510 00:25:05,504 --> 00:25:07,738 Why Mary Jane? Why... 511 00:25:07,773 --> 00:25:08,839 Were you responsible for the issue 512 00:25:08,874 --> 00:25:12,317 of "Face it, tiger. You hit the jackpot"? 513 00:25:12,353 --> 00:25:15,979 I think that was one of the best last panels that I had ever done. 514 00:25:16,015 --> 00:25:18,949 In that story, until you actually see her face, 515 00:25:18,984 --> 00:25:22,227 she's always hidden by a flowerpot or a hand. 516 00:25:22,263 --> 00:25:25,489 See, what happened again, in trying to keep it realistic, 517 00:25:25,524 --> 00:25:27,791 most kids, most boys, 518 00:25:27,826 --> 00:25:30,794 don't particularly want to meet a girl 519 00:25:30,829 --> 00:25:33,764 whom their mother or aunt recommends. 520 00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:36,141 Was gonna set them up with, right. 521 00:25:36,177 --> 00:25:39,536 And especially, if they... "Oh, she's a very nice girl." 522 00:25:39,571 --> 00:25:42,873 Guys usually run a mile. 523 00:25:42,908 --> 00:25:44,899 Well, I kept this going for a long time. 524 00:25:44,935 --> 00:25:48,937 In the series, Aunt May wanted Peter to meet 525 00:25:48,972 --> 00:25:52,182 her neighbor's daughter, Mrs. Watson's daughter. 526 00:25:52,217 --> 00:25:54,943 "Oh, she's a very nice girl, Peter. I know you'll like her." 527 00:25:54,978 --> 00:25:58,747 And Peter did everything he could to avoid her. 528 00:25:58,782 --> 00:26:00,715 In the story where they finally meet, 529 00:26:00,751 --> 00:26:03,093 in the last panel of that story, 530 00:26:03,128 --> 00:26:05,887 I have the bell ring or something, I don't remember, 531 00:26:05,922 --> 00:26:07,055 and he opens the door, and the last panel, 532 00:26:08,233 --> 00:26:11,893 John Romita drew the most beautiful girl you could imagine. 533 00:26:11,928 --> 00:26:14,863 And I have her looking at Peter and saying, 534 00:26:14,898 --> 00:26:17,699 "Face it, tiger. You just hit the jackpot." 535 00:26:17,734 --> 00:26:20,602 I mean, I was so proud of myself. 536 00:26:20,637 --> 00:26:22,670 "You just hit the jackpot." 537 00:26:22,706 --> 00:26:24,906 A funny thing about Mary Jane, 538 00:26:24,941 --> 00:26:27,034 originally there was a girl named Gwen Stacy 539 00:26:28,337 --> 00:26:29,703 before Mary. 540 00:26:29,739 --> 00:26:32,706 I had wanted Gwen to be the one 541 00:26:32,742 --> 00:26:34,641 that Peter would get serious with, 542 00:26:34,677 --> 00:26:37,218 and she was as beautiful as... 543 00:26:37,254 --> 00:26:41,382 John can't not... He can't draw girls who aren't beautiful. 544 00:26:41,417 --> 00:26:42,916 She was a dream. 545 00:26:42,952 --> 00:26:45,519 Blonde, tall, gorgeous figure and so forth. 546 00:26:45,554 --> 00:26:47,488 Mary Jane was a redhead. 547 00:26:47,523 --> 00:26:50,891 And the only thing is, 548 00:26:50,926 --> 00:26:55,203 after we had Gwen for a while in the series, 549 00:26:55,238 --> 00:26:57,105 I said, "We ought to get another girl to play against Gwen 550 00:26:59,209 --> 00:27:00,901 "to get some reason for jealousy, a little friction." 551 00:27:00,936 --> 00:27:02,603 A little Betty and Veronica kind of stuff. 552 00:27:02,638 --> 00:27:05,146 Yeah. Gotta have friction. 553 00:27:05,182 --> 00:27:07,666 So, I said, "Let's get Mary Jane in to make her..." 554 00:27:07,701 --> 00:27:08,700 I don't know, where the name... 555 00:27:08,736 --> 00:27:10,244 Oh, a funny thing about Mary Jane! 556 00:27:10,279 --> 00:27:13,638 I was told later, "How did you get away with using that name? 557 00:27:13,674 --> 00:27:15,707 "It's the name for marijuana." 558 00:27:15,743 --> 00:27:19,119 I never knew that! I had no idea! 559 00:27:19,155 --> 00:27:20,445 And her nickname, 'cause I told you I like nicknames, 560 00:27:20,481 --> 00:27:22,356 I called her "M.J." 561 00:27:22,391 --> 00:27:24,683 They said, "That's how they refer to marijuana!" I was embarrassed. 562 00:27:24,718 --> 00:27:26,551 And Spider-Man was real into M.J. 563 00:27:26,587 --> 00:27:28,053 (LAUGHS) Oh, yeah! Right! 564 00:27:30,566 --> 00:27:34,760 Anyway, so what happened was I said, "Let's make Mary Jane different from Gwen. 565 00:27:34,795 --> 00:27:37,996 "Gwen is sweet and lovable and nice. 566 00:27:38,032 --> 00:27:41,141 "Let's make Mary Jane hip, and cool, and with it, 567 00:27:41,177 --> 00:27:45,337 "and a party girl, a fun girl..." You know, a swinger. 568 00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:46,071 And we did. 569 00:27:48,284 --> 00:27:52,502 And somehow, I found I enjoyed writing Mary Jane's dialogue 570 00:27:52,537 --> 00:27:53,636 a million times better. 571 00:27:53,672 --> 00:27:54,571 Sure, there's some edge to it. 572 00:27:54,606 --> 00:27:56,606 Gwen was just a nice girl. 573 00:27:56,641 --> 00:27:59,442 Mary Jane had a personality. 574 00:27:59,478 --> 00:28:01,044 So, at one point... 575 00:28:03,782 --> 00:28:06,091 Gwen's father was a police captain, 576 00:28:06,126 --> 00:28:08,585 and, again, I'm always trying to throw surprises in. 577 00:28:08,620 --> 00:28:10,787 I decided, "Let's kill him. 578 00:28:10,822 --> 00:28:12,055 "And really, we'll kill a character, 579 00:28:13,692 --> 00:28:16,234 "and do it in a dramatic way." 580 00:28:16,270 --> 00:28:20,138 I had... I think it was the Green Goblin, I'm not sure, 581 00:28:20,174 --> 00:28:23,341 was fighting with the police captain and killed him. 582 00:28:23,377 --> 00:28:27,345 Spider-Man was trying to save the captain, so he was on the scene. 583 00:28:27,381 --> 00:28:30,073 When the captain died, the Goblin, if it was the Goblin, had left, 584 00:28:31,968 --> 00:28:34,836 and everybody saw Spider-Man with Captain Stacy 585 00:28:34,871 --> 00:28:37,414 and thought Spider-Man had killed Stacy, 586 00:28:37,449 --> 00:28:43,878 'cause I felt, "That's gonna cause such a beautifully dramatic problem." 587 00:28:43,913 --> 00:28:45,255 Peter Parker was about to propose to Gwen. 588 00:28:45,290 --> 00:28:51,019 How could he propose to a girl who would find out he's Spider-Man 589 00:28:51,021 --> 00:28:53,621 when she thought Spider-Man had killed her father? 590 00:28:53,656 --> 00:28:55,923 So, I loved that situation. 591 00:28:55,959 --> 00:28:56,266 And there's that really beautiful moment, too, 592 00:28:56,301 --> 00:29:01,229 where Captain Stacy kind of knows that Spider-Man is Peter Parker, 593 00:29:01,264 --> 00:29:03,073 Right. 594 00:29:03,108 --> 00:29:05,867 That's right. But, of course, she never heard that. 595 00:29:05,902 --> 00:29:07,602 Powerful stuff, but she doesn't hear that. 596 00:29:07,637 --> 00:29:09,037 But that's powerful stuff, 597 00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:11,973 and that's not stuff necessarily written for a kid. 598 00:29:12,008 --> 00:29:13,467 Well, I never wrote for kids. I wrote for me. 599 00:29:13,502 --> 00:29:15,002 Right. Right, right. 600 00:29:15,078 --> 00:29:19,906 Later, when Gerry Conway took over the series, he... 601 00:29:19,942 --> 00:29:22,250 I don't remember this, but he says he asked me 602 00:29:22,285 --> 00:29:25,979 if it would be okay to kill Gwen also, and he said I said yes. 603 00:29:26,015 --> 00:29:28,648 He's probably right, 'cause I have a lousy memory. 604 00:29:28,684 --> 00:29:30,650 But I shouldn't have said yes, 605 00:29:30,686 --> 00:29:31,752 'cause I was away on a trip. 606 00:29:31,787 --> 00:29:33,820 When I came back, I read Spider-Man, 607 00:29:33,856 --> 00:29:35,055 I see that Gwen Stacy had been killed. 608 00:29:37,026 --> 00:29:38,959 And I said, "It's gonna look like we had something 609 00:29:38,994 --> 00:29:41,962 "against the Stacy family. What are you doing?" 610 00:29:41,997 --> 00:29:44,172 But, anyway, it was done and that was it, so... 611 00:29:44,207 --> 00:29:47,275 And she's one of the only comic characters to stay dead. 612 00:29:47,310 --> 00:29:48,835 You know, most comic characters die, and then, sooner or later, 613 00:29:48,871 --> 00:29:50,404 come back in one incarnation or another. 614 00:29:50,439 --> 00:29:53,840 She stayed dead. 615 00:29:53,876 --> 00:29:56,801 There was one story where she came back 616 00:29:56,837 --> 00:29:58,970 and she was a clone, but it wasn't Gwen. 617 00:29:59,006 --> 00:30:01,973 She stayed dead, which is pretty good for comics. 618 00:30:02,009 --> 00:30:02,407 When you kill somebody, you got to keep them dead. 619 00:30:02,442 --> 00:30:04,042 (LAUGHS) Right. 620 00:30:10,492 --> 00:30:12,384 Another immortal character in the Spider-Man mythos is J. Jonah Jameson. 621 00:30:12,419 --> 00:30:13,651 Oh, I loved him. 622 00:30:13,687 --> 00:30:14,052 Where does J. Jonah come from? 623 00:30:15,756 --> 00:30:16,287 You know who J. Jonah Jameson was? 624 00:30:16,323 --> 00:30:18,023 He was me. 625 00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:21,826 He was irascible, he was bad-tempered, he was dumb, 626 00:30:21,862 --> 00:30:24,171 he thought he was better than he was... 627 00:30:24,206 --> 00:30:26,364 He was the version that so many people had of me, anyway. 628 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,932 Right, right. 629 00:30:27,968 --> 00:30:30,110 And I always wanted to play him in the movie. 630 00:30:30,145 --> 00:30:32,670 I was so sorry that, by the time the movie was made, 631 00:30:32,706 --> 00:30:35,315 I'm too old to play the role. 632 00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:36,074 Well, I don't really think I'm too old, but obviously they did. 633 00:30:37,235 --> 00:30:39,144 Right. 634 00:30:39,179 --> 00:30:41,804 And the guy who's playing it in the movie is wonderful. 635 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:42,038 He did it better than I could have done. 636 00:30:43,808 --> 00:30:44,774 And that's very high praise from me. 637 00:30:44,809 --> 00:30:45,908 That's saying a lot from you, yeah. 638 00:30:45,944 --> 00:30:49,912 Anyway, I wanted Peter to have a freelance job, 639 00:30:49,948 --> 00:30:52,915 not a staff job anywhere, not a steady job, 640 00:30:52,951 --> 00:30:54,050 'cause I wanted him free to do his spideying. 641 00:30:56,021 --> 00:30:57,053 So, I figured a freelance newspaper photographer. 642 00:30:59,466 --> 00:31:01,958 And then, it occurred to me. "I'm gonna make the guy he works for..." 643 00:31:01,993 --> 00:31:04,660 In Superman, there was Perry White or somebody... 644 00:31:04,696 --> 00:31:05,728 Perry White. He was the editor. 645 00:31:05,764 --> 00:31:07,864 Who was probably a nice enough guy. 646 00:31:07,899 --> 00:31:09,699 I didn't want this guy to be a nice guy. 647 00:31:09,734 --> 00:31:12,769 I wanted him to hate Spider-Man, 648 00:31:12,804 --> 00:31:15,838 'cause I liked the irony of the fact 649 00:31:15,874 --> 00:31:18,474 that he has Spider-Man working for him, 650 00:31:18,510 --> 00:31:22,504 and he hates Spider-Man, yet, he always wants to get pictures of Spider-Man, 651 00:31:22,539 --> 00:31:24,313 'cause he sells papers. 652 00:31:24,349 --> 00:31:28,643 Also, in those days, that was when there were hippies and so forth, 653 00:31:28,679 --> 00:31:30,045 I wanted him to hate teenagers. 654 00:31:31,749 --> 00:31:33,089 'Cause to Jameson, every teenager 655 00:31:33,124 --> 00:31:37,753 was a long-haired commie "prevert" hippie. You know? 656 00:31:37,788 --> 00:31:38,361 So, I got a lot of fun out of that. 657 00:31:38,396 --> 00:31:43,859 He hated Peter Parker, he hated Spider-Man, Peter had to work for him. 658 00:31:43,894 --> 00:31:45,060 Jameson wasn't a villain. He wasn't bad. 659 00:31:46,497 --> 00:31:47,170 He was just a bigot, 660 00:31:47,205 --> 00:31:52,701 he was ill-tempered, he was... We all know guys like him. 661 00:31:52,736 --> 00:31:55,704 And, as counterpoint to Jameson, 662 00:31:55,739 --> 00:31:56,872 I wanted to get... I got a guy, 663 00:31:56,907 --> 00:32:01,276 Robbie Robertson, who was a black editor, 664 00:32:01,311 --> 00:32:05,080 and I wanted him to be the voice of reason on the newspaper. 665 00:32:06,641 --> 00:32:07,440 He really carried the paper. 666 00:32:07,476 --> 00:32:09,809 He pacified Jameson. 667 00:32:09,845 --> 00:32:13,947 And I also wanted the reader to suspect 668 00:32:13,982 --> 00:32:16,616 that Robbie suspected that Peter was Spider-Man, 669 00:32:16,651 --> 00:32:19,786 but would never say anything. 670 00:32:19,821 --> 00:32:22,130 to ever make that connection himself. 671 00:32:22,166 --> 00:32:24,099 Again, and you'd understand this as well as anybody, 672 00:32:26,028 --> 00:32:29,371 by having a family in a strip, people you know, 673 00:32:29,406 --> 00:32:33,308 you know their personality, you know their character, you know... 674 00:32:33,343 --> 00:32:35,935 Then you know how they would talk, you know what they would do. 675 00:32:35,971 --> 00:32:38,772 And to use that old cliche, which isn't true, 676 00:32:38,807 --> 00:32:40,273 the stories almost write themselves. 677 00:32:40,308 --> 00:32:41,032 Exactly. 678 00:32:48,617 --> 00:32:53,511 I got a letter once from the Office of Health, Education and Welfare in Washington. 679 00:32:53,546 --> 00:32:56,256 And they said, "Mr. Lee, 680 00:32:56,291 --> 00:32:58,616 "recognizing the influence of your comics," blah, blah, blah, 681 00:32:58,651 --> 00:33:01,161 "and drugs are a big problem, 682 00:33:01,196 --> 00:33:03,955 "if you could do an anti-drug story, we'd appreciate it." 683 00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:08,134 Well, who am I not to obey the edict of HEW? 684 00:33:08,170 --> 00:33:12,864 So, I did a three-issue series, and it wasn't preachy, 685 00:33:12,899 --> 00:33:15,175 but it had to do with a friend of Spidey's, 686 00:33:15,210 --> 00:33:17,735 I forget who it was, had taken too much of something. 687 00:33:17,771 --> 00:33:18,870 I don't know anything about drugs, 688 00:33:18,905 --> 00:33:21,072 so I just said he overdosed on something. 689 00:33:23,243 --> 00:33:24,735 And he was on the edge of the roof and thought he could fly. 690 00:33:24,770 --> 00:33:26,036 And Spider-Man rescues him and says, 691 00:33:28,081 --> 00:33:30,248 "You're a jerk for doing that." That type of thing. 692 00:33:30,283 --> 00:33:33,844 And it was part of a bigger story, with a villain and so forth. 693 00:33:33,879 --> 00:33:35,712 So, it didn't look like we were preaching. 694 00:33:35,748 --> 00:33:38,882 It was just an incident in a story. 695 00:33:38,917 --> 00:33:40,851 We then had the Comic Code Administration, 696 00:33:40,886 --> 00:33:43,720 where they were censoring all the comics. 697 00:33:43,756 --> 00:33:44,054 They sent the book back and said, 698 00:33:45,691 --> 00:33:47,024 "You can't publish this book." 699 00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:49,426 They said, "We won't put our seal of approval on it." 700 00:33:49,461 --> 00:33:50,894 I said, "Why not?" 701 00:33:50,929 --> 00:33:52,963 They said, "Well, you're mentioning drugs." 702 00:33:52,998 --> 00:33:55,065 I said, "We're not telling kids to take drugs!" 703 00:33:57,544 --> 00:33:59,569 And I said, "I was asked to do this by a branch of the Federal Government." 704 00:33:59,605 --> 00:34:01,245 "Sorry, you can't do it." 705 00:34:01,281 --> 00:34:04,274 Well, it's one time when I was very proud of my publisher. 706 00:34:04,309 --> 00:34:07,936 I said, "Martin, you know, I want to put these books out anyway." 707 00:34:07,971 --> 00:34:09,771 And he said, "Well, go ahead and do it, Stan." 708 00:34:09,806 --> 00:34:11,181 And we put them out without the seal, 709 00:34:11,216 --> 00:34:15,810 they sold beautifully, we got letters from church groups, 710 00:34:15,846 --> 00:34:17,779 parent-teacher's... Everybody loved it. 711 00:34:17,814 --> 00:34:20,849 And a funny thing happened there, too. 712 00:34:20,884 --> 00:34:22,426 The New York Times gave it a good write-up. 713 00:34:22,461 --> 00:34:26,063 Now, as you probably know, when The New York Times has a feature story, 714 00:34:26,098 --> 00:34:31,026 other papers around the country usually pick up on it. 715 00:34:31,028 --> 00:34:32,102 Well, I would get clippings from the other papers. 716 00:34:33,372 --> 00:34:36,339 But what they would do, so often they would headline their story, 717 00:34:36,375 --> 00:34:43,671 something like, um, "Marvel Comics Drug Issue Causes Controversy." 718 00:34:43,707 --> 00:34:44,072 And in looking at the headline, 719 00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:47,867 you would think that we were pushing drugs. 720 00:34:47,902 --> 00:34:51,246 So, I learned that there's no good you can do 721 00:34:51,281 --> 00:34:53,081 that doesn't turn into something you're embarrassed by later. 722 00:34:59,881 --> 00:35:02,915 This is just stuff. I don't know, it's... 723 00:35:02,951 --> 00:35:05,360 We didn't have any place to put these things. 724 00:35:05,395 --> 00:35:06,219 Those various collectibles are based on characters you've created? 725 00:35:06,254 --> 00:35:07,053 Yeah. 726 00:35:09,024 --> 00:35:10,056 Is that supposed to be a Stan Lee action figure? 727 00:35:11,693 --> 00:35:12,058 (LAUGHS) Yeah! How about that? 728 00:35:13,762 --> 00:35:15,895 And somebody did a bust over there. 729 00:35:15,930 --> 00:35:18,965 It's awful when you're easy to caricature. 730 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,633 You know, that kind of worries you a little bit, 731 00:35:20,668 --> 00:35:22,001 but what are you gonna do? 732 00:35:22,037 --> 00:35:24,637 It's really Joan's world, and you just live in it. 733 00:35:24,672 --> 00:35:26,539 That was me at the Hulk set. 734 00:35:26,574 --> 00:35:28,899 With the Thor episode. 735 00:35:28,935 --> 00:35:30,735 That's right, it was the Thor episode. Yeah. 736 00:35:30,770 --> 00:35:32,870 Now this, the painting over here, 737 00:35:32,905 --> 00:35:34,739 the kind of Warholian treatment of an image, 738 00:35:34,774 --> 00:35:36,974 where did that image first appear? 739 00:35:37,010 --> 00:35:38,743 It's very famous, you staring at Spider-Man. 740 00:35:38,778 --> 00:35:40,511 It first appeared in that painting. 741 00:35:40,546 --> 00:35:41,045 And then, what I did, 742 00:35:43,016 --> 00:35:44,448 I took a lot of black-and-white photos of that, 743 00:35:44,484 --> 00:35:47,193 just 8-by-10 or so, 744 00:35:47,228 --> 00:35:49,387 and I use those if anybody ever wants an autographed photo. 745 00:35:49,422 --> 00:35:52,757 But I love that. 746 00:35:52,792 --> 00:35:53,691 Done by a fellow named Steve Kaufman, 747 00:35:53,726 --> 00:35:55,059 who used to work for Andy Warhol, 748 00:35:56,796 --> 00:35:59,138 and he silk-screens these things. 749 00:35:59,174 --> 00:36:01,465 It looks like I'm really being tough with Spider-Man. 750 00:36:01,501 --> 00:36:02,666 (LAUGHING) Right. 751 00:36:02,702 --> 00:36:05,445 Which I wouldn't dare to be. 752 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,839 SMITH: Over here on the wall is a framed Christmas card from Bob Kane. 753 00:36:08,875 --> 00:36:11,701 Bob Kane and I were very close friends. 754 00:36:11,737 --> 00:36:13,903 And, you know, he was a funny guy. 755 00:36:13,939 --> 00:36:16,039 He's the exact opposite of me in one respect. 756 00:36:18,010 --> 00:36:20,643 If I'm out in public and somebody recognizes me, 757 00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:21,678 it embarrasses me a little. 758 00:36:21,713 --> 00:36:24,355 Bob and I would go out to dinner 759 00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:26,090 and when the waiter brought the menu over, the first thing he'd say, 760 00:36:27,886 --> 00:36:29,619 "Do you know who I am? I created Batman." 761 00:36:29,654 --> 00:36:31,362 But he was so nice about it. 762 00:36:31,397 --> 00:36:32,096 He'd always say to the waiter, "Come here, I want to draw a sketch." 763 00:36:33,725 --> 00:36:36,233 And on a napkin he'd do a Batman 764 00:36:36,269 --> 00:36:39,370 and autograph it and give it to everybody he met, you know? 765 00:36:39,405 --> 00:36:42,999 So, now, years later, you got to do your rendition of his character 766 00:36:43,035 --> 00:36:47,144 with the DC Just Imagine Stan Lee Creating series. 767 00:36:47,180 --> 00:36:49,806 Not really. Just my rendition of the name that he used, 768 00:36:49,841 --> 00:36:51,107 'cause it was a totally different... 769 00:36:51,143 --> 00:36:53,901 I wouldn't ever try to improve on anything he had done. 770 00:36:53,937 --> 00:36:55,245 I just... Just did a totally different one. 771 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,773 And the idea, the genesis of the project was what? Who came... 772 00:36:58,808 --> 00:37:00,383 Did you go to them or they come to you? 773 00:37:00,419 --> 00:37:03,711 No, no, no. I would never have dared to suggest anything like that. 774 00:37:03,747 --> 00:37:04,045 A fellow I know named Mike Uslan, 775 00:37:05,749 --> 00:37:07,782 who's very intimately connected... 776 00:37:07,817 --> 00:37:08,850 In fact, he's one of the producers... 777 00:37:08,885 --> 00:37:11,019 One of the producers of the Batman series. 778 00:37:11,021 --> 00:37:12,128 And he and I have known each other for a long time. 779 00:37:12,164 --> 00:37:15,556 And he said, "Stan, how would you like to do your version 780 00:37:15,592 --> 00:37:18,059 "of DC's top characters?" 781 00:37:19,863 --> 00:37:21,071 (LAUGHS) And I said, "Yeah, fat chance." 782 00:37:21,106 --> 00:37:23,865 He said, "But if you had a chance, would you do it?" 783 00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:26,667 Nobody could turn down a thing like that. 784 00:37:26,703 --> 00:37:28,002 Came back a few weeks later, 785 00:37:28,038 --> 00:37:30,671 and he said that Jeanette Kahn and Paul Levitz, 786 00:37:30,707 --> 00:37:31,214 who were running the company, 787 00:37:31,249 --> 00:37:35,309 they thought it would be a great idea and wanted me to do it. 788 00:37:35,345 --> 00:37:37,636 And first thing I thought is, "What am I getting myself into?" 789 00:37:37,672 --> 00:37:40,873 So, it became a 12-issue set. 790 00:37:40,908 --> 00:37:43,776 I've already done 10. I have two more to go. 791 00:37:43,811 --> 00:37:45,611 And the thing I worried about, mostly, 792 00:37:45,646 --> 00:37:49,290 was fans of the characters. 793 00:37:49,325 --> 00:37:52,818 You know, wouldn't they resent me having the temerity to say, 794 00:37:52,854 --> 00:37:54,295 "Oh, I'm gonna do my own version of it." 795 00:37:54,330 --> 00:37:57,331 But they're buying it, and they seem to like it, and it's fun. 796 00:37:57,367 --> 00:38:00,201 It was definitely a project that garnered a lot of attention, too, 797 00:38:00,236 --> 00:38:02,895 when they announced it, because, you know, the big to-do 798 00:38:02,930 --> 00:38:04,930 of the man who created Marvel, essentially, 799 00:38:04,966 --> 00:38:08,376 coming over to DC to do them justice as well. 800 00:38:08,411 --> 00:38:11,704 And the funny thing is, I think a lot of the versions that we did 801 00:38:11,739 --> 00:38:12,805 I think would make good movies. 802 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,000 Now, they're gonna have a big problem. 803 00:38:15,076 --> 00:38:16,701 "Well, how can we make a movie out of this version 804 00:38:16,737 --> 00:38:18,770 "when we have the other version?" 805 00:38:18,805 --> 00:38:19,037 But I don't have to make that decision. 806 00:38:20,674 --> 00:38:21,039 Right. It's out of your hands. 807 00:38:27,781 --> 00:38:28,980 You know, I always loved advertising. 808 00:38:29,016 --> 00:38:32,324 I always wanted to be in the advertising business. 809 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,328 And I thought calling us "The House of Ideas" was a good phrase. 810 00:38:36,364 --> 00:38:39,424 Calling The Fantastic Four "The world's greatest comics magazine" 811 00:38:39,459 --> 00:38:40,859 was a good phrase. 812 00:38:40,894 --> 00:38:43,728 And "Make mine Marvel" wasn't too shabby. 813 00:38:43,764 --> 00:38:46,831 All those things. I love slogans. 814 00:38:46,867 --> 00:38:50,142 Of the many things you're remembered for, 815 00:38:50,178 --> 00:38:52,937 of creating a modern mythology that still exists today 816 00:38:52,973 --> 00:38:56,032 and will exist forever, for as far as we know, 817 00:38:58,837 --> 00:39:01,838 of bringing Marvel to where it is today, 818 00:39:01,873 --> 00:39:04,182 of giving the world Spider-Man, The Hulk, 819 00:39:04,217 --> 00:39:06,709 the X-Men, Daredevil, Iron Man, the list goes on and on. 820 00:39:06,745 --> 00:39:11,981 Um, one of your unsung attributes, 821 00:39:12,017 --> 00:39:14,192 what I think is wonderful about your personality 822 00:39:14,227 --> 00:39:16,094 or the thing that kind of defines you, are the Stan-isms. 823 00:39:17,455 --> 00:39:18,654 The "'Nuff said." 824 00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:21,299 You know, the "true believer." 825 00:39:21,334 --> 00:39:25,628 Um, but probably best well-known is your sign-off, "Excelsior." 826 00:39:25,663 --> 00:39:27,730 Where does that come from? 827 00:39:27,766 --> 00:39:29,899 (LAUGHS) Well, the ones you quoted, 828 00:39:29,934 --> 00:39:32,902 "'Nuff said," and then I had "Face front"... 829 00:39:32,937 --> 00:39:36,706 These are ways I used to sign my editorials. 830 00:39:36,741 --> 00:39:38,699 I'd say, "Face front," "Stand," 831 00:39:38,735 --> 00:39:41,836 or "'Nuff said," or, "Hang loose." 832 00:39:41,871 --> 00:39:43,971 And I had others that I've since forgotten. 833 00:39:44,007 --> 00:39:47,775 But I found that some of the competitive magazines 834 00:39:47,810 --> 00:39:49,043 were starting to use my expressions. 835 00:39:50,546 --> 00:39:51,445 Especially "'Nuff said." 836 00:39:51,481 --> 00:39:54,015 And that annoyed me. 837 00:39:54,017 --> 00:39:55,816 So, I said, "I've got to come up with an expression 838 00:39:55,852 --> 00:39:59,820 "that A: they won't know what it means, 839 00:39:59,856 --> 00:40:02,990 "and B: they won't know how to spell it." 840 00:40:03,026 --> 00:40:05,760 And I thought of "Excelsior," because it's a... 841 00:40:05,795 --> 00:40:08,062 It's the slogan for New York State, 842 00:40:09,799 --> 00:40:11,966 the official seal of New York State. 843 00:40:12,001 --> 00:40:14,626 But, also, I had read that in books of legends. 844 00:40:14,662 --> 00:40:18,005 It's an old English expression 845 00:40:18,041 --> 00:40:21,734 that means, "Upward and onward to greater glory." 846 00:40:21,769 --> 00:40:23,669 Well, what could be better than that? 847 00:40:23,704 --> 00:40:26,772 Unfortunately, in the dictionary, 848 00:40:26,807 --> 00:40:30,009 it has a meaning that they print first. 849 00:40:30,086 --> 00:40:34,321 Excelsior is what they use to stuff packages with. 850 00:40:34,357 --> 00:40:37,783 You know, those shavings so a thing won't rattle and get broken? 851 00:40:37,818 --> 00:40:40,161 So, very often, I get letters saying, 852 00:40:40,196 --> 00:40:43,431 "How come you sign everything with 'package stuffing'?" 853 00:40:43,466 --> 00:40:46,692 And I'd have to write back, "Read the second definition in the thing." 854 00:40:46,727 --> 00:40:49,203 But I love the word, and in fact, 855 00:40:49,238 --> 00:40:52,831 it might even be a great way to close this little interview. 856 00:40:52,867 --> 00:40:54,767 Give it to them. You know what they want. 857 00:40:54,802 --> 00:40:56,301 All right, here we go. Are you ready? 858 00:40:56,337 --> 00:40:59,304 Excelsior! 859 00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:00,072 (LAUGHING) 860 00:41:17,817 --> 00:41:21,552 So, 60 years, plus, of comics work. 861 00:41:21,588 --> 00:41:23,054 Where does it all begin? 862 00:41:25,499 --> 00:41:28,359 I guess it all began when I first walked into the offices of what was then 863 00:41:28,395 --> 00:41:31,470 Timely Comics. 864 00:41:31,505 --> 00:41:34,365 Of course, had I known then what I know now, I might never have gone in. 865 00:41:34,401 --> 00:41:36,208 Right, right. 866 00:41:36,243 --> 00:41:39,771 I should have gone into the offices of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. 867 00:41:39,806 --> 00:41:42,548 Or Warner Brothers. But who knew? 868 00:41:42,583 --> 00:41:44,075 No, no. And they needed you in comics more than they needed you in movies. 869 00:41:45,770 --> 00:41:47,003 But let's go back even before that. 870 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:48,804 Where were you born originally? Where were you from? 871 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,339 Oh, like everybody else. New York City. 872 00:41:50,375 --> 00:41:51,841 New York City. 873 00:41:51,876 --> 00:41:54,043 It was the West Side, I still remember, 874 00:41:55,780 --> 00:41:58,981 East 98th Street and West End Avenue. 875 00:41:59,017 --> 00:42:00,549 You joined the service at a certain point as well? 876 00:42:00,585 --> 00:42:02,051 Yeah, I enlisted in, um... 877 00:42:05,265 --> 00:42:09,367 I think '42 or '43 or something. I was in for three years. 878 00:42:09,402 --> 00:42:12,962 And I wanted to be a hero. You know, I had written about heroes. 879 00:42:12,997 --> 00:42:16,441 And I saw myself winning the war single-handedly. 880 00:42:16,476 --> 00:42:21,312 They put me in the Signal Corps, and I was supposed to do wire repair. 881 00:42:21,347 --> 00:42:24,006 I would have been the guy who went overseas and repaired... 882 00:42:24,042 --> 00:42:26,867 Who climbed up the telephone poles or whatever, 883 00:42:26,902 --> 00:42:29,278 and kept the wires going for communication. 884 00:42:29,313 --> 00:42:32,081 But before I could do that, they found out I had written comics. 885 00:42:33,642 --> 00:42:34,875 And the next thing I knew, 886 00:42:34,910 --> 00:42:39,780 I was in the Training Film Writing Division. 887 00:42:39,815 --> 00:42:42,049 And I was the token non-entity there, 888 00:42:43,261 --> 00:42:47,221 'cause I was with people like William Saroyan and Frank Capra. 889 00:42:47,256 --> 00:42:48,297 Jeez. 890 00:42:48,332 --> 00:42:52,793 But they needed somebody that was just a regular person, I guess. 891 00:42:52,828 --> 00:42:55,696 So, it was great. A great experience. 892 00:42:55,731 --> 00:42:57,139 I wrote a lot of training films, 893 00:42:57,175 --> 00:43:01,110 I wrote instructional manuals for the troops and so forth, 894 00:43:02,772 --> 00:43:03,070 and I drew cartoons and posters. 895 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,174 When did you first start writing, then? 896 00:43:07,209 --> 00:43:09,209 'Cause it seems... I mean, that is your whole life, writing. 897 00:43:09,245 --> 00:43:13,639 I was writing when I was a kid. I wrote compositions, and... 898 00:43:13,675 --> 00:43:16,316 I used to win little contests. 899 00:43:16,352 --> 00:43:18,745 They had something called "The Biggest News of the Week Hunt" 900 00:43:18,780 --> 00:43:21,422 at a newspaper, The Herald Tribune. 901 00:43:21,457 --> 00:43:24,717 It was for high school students, and I entered it three weeks in a row, 902 00:43:24,753 --> 00:43:26,719 and I won it three weeks in a row. 903 00:43:26,755 --> 00:43:29,329 They asked me to stop entering it. 904 00:43:29,365 --> 00:43:32,759 The editor said, "What do you want to be when you become a person?" 905 00:43:32,794 --> 00:43:34,168 And I said, "I want to be an actor." 906 00:43:34,203 --> 00:43:38,405 He said, "Don't be a schmuck, you know, become a writer." 907 00:43:38,441 --> 00:43:43,243 So, at what point did you work on Captain America? Prewar or postwar? 908 00:43:43,279 --> 00:43:45,938 I worked on Captain America prewar and I did them postwar. 909 00:43:45,974 --> 00:43:48,833 You know, I feel silly doing what we're doing. 910 00:43:48,868 --> 00:43:50,534 I mean, I should be asking you questions. 911 00:43:50,570 --> 00:43:54,414 No. I got nothing to say. 912 00:43:54,449 --> 00:43:58,217 I mean, I can't wait till you run out of stuff so I can start asking you. 913 00:43:58,253 --> 00:44:01,120 Then we'll go to me. But in the meantime, let's stick to you. 914 00:44:01,156 --> 00:44:03,156 So, before the war, you're working on Captain America, 915 00:44:03,191 --> 00:44:04,648 and Captain America was a character you didn't create 916 00:44:04,684 --> 00:44:06,017 but you helped define later on. 917 00:44:06,094 --> 00:44:08,094 Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, as they listed themselves, 918 00:44:09,722 --> 00:44:12,298 they had created Captain America. 919 00:44:12,333 --> 00:44:16,202 And it was just becoming really popular when I joined the company, 920 00:44:16,237 --> 00:44:19,830 and after a while, when I had to have some stories to write, 921 00:44:19,866 --> 00:44:21,632 they started feeding me Captain Americas. 922 00:44:21,667 --> 00:44:22,066 I wrote quite a few of them. 923 00:44:23,736 --> 00:44:25,603 When I came back after the war, 924 00:44:25,638 --> 00:44:28,247 I guess I wrote some more... 925 00:44:28,283 --> 00:44:30,866 I don't have the world's greatest memory, but at some point, 926 00:44:30,901 --> 00:44:33,836 Captain America was not as popular anymore 927 00:44:33,871 --> 00:44:35,437 and they dropped the character for a while. 928 00:44:35,473 --> 00:44:37,606 And this is postwar? 929 00:44:37,641 --> 00:44:39,316 Yeah, this was after the war. 930 00:44:39,352 --> 00:44:41,477 'cause you'd imagine after the war there'd be all this patriotism 931 00:44:41,512 --> 00:44:44,288 and Captain America... 932 00:44:44,323 --> 00:44:47,816 I think once Hitler wasn't around for Captain America to fight, 933 00:44:47,852 --> 00:44:50,127 they ran out of stories. I don't know. 934 00:44:50,163 --> 00:44:55,299 But in the '60s, when we started the Marvel characters, 935 00:44:55,334 --> 00:44:58,102 I had always loved Captain America, so I brought him back then. 936 00:44:58,137 --> 00:44:59,628 Let's go back to... When you first enter comics, 937 00:44:59,663 --> 00:45:02,031 superheroes aren't in vogue. 938 00:45:02,108 --> 00:45:05,276 It's more romance and Westerns, if I'm correct. 939 00:45:05,311 --> 00:45:07,669 Well, actually, when I entered comics, there were superheroes, 940 00:45:07,705 --> 00:45:10,414 but they weren't as popular. 941 00:45:10,450 --> 00:45:15,569 There was Captain America, there was The Human Torch, The Sub-Mariner, 942 00:45:15,604 --> 00:45:17,804 so there were superheroes. 943 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,640 As a matter of fact, when I got into it, 944 00:45:20,676 --> 00:45:22,409 Timely was mostly superheroes. 945 00:45:22,444 --> 00:45:24,119 It was later on... 946 00:45:24,155 --> 00:45:28,915 See, what it was, comics books always followed trends. 947 00:45:28,951 --> 00:45:30,225 For a couple of years, it would be superheroes. 948 00:45:30,261 --> 00:45:36,398 Then it would be romance, or Westerns, or animated characters. 949 00:45:36,434 --> 00:45:40,894 I mean, one of my proudest boasts is I created Silly Seal and Ziggy Pig 950 00:45:40,929 --> 00:45:44,765 with Al Jaffee, who's one of Mad's top guys. 951 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,834 We were not very creative in titles, 952 00:45:47,870 --> 00:45:50,179 because our war magazines, for example, 953 00:45:50,214 --> 00:45:55,075 they had names like Combat, Combat Kelly, Combat Casey, 954 00:45:57,246 --> 00:46:00,439 Battle, Battlefield, Battleground, Battle something else... 955 00:46:00,475 --> 00:46:01,841 I'm sensing a theme. 956 00:46:01,876 --> 00:46:03,042 And in the Romance books, we had My Love, 957 00:46:05,387 --> 00:46:08,981 Our Love, Your Love, Their Love, My Romance, Your Romance. It was... 958 00:46:09,017 --> 00:46:13,393 We were in such a rut, and we were real followers. 959 00:46:13,429 --> 00:46:17,923 Whatever the trend was, we would put out a lot of books in that trend. 960 00:46:17,959 --> 00:46:19,992 And that's how my publisher, Martin Goodman, 961 00:46:20,028 --> 00:46:22,728 who is a smart guy, that's how he made his money. 962 00:46:22,764 --> 00:46:26,239 He waited to see what was selling, 963 00:46:26,275 --> 00:46:31,003 and then he would flood the market with those kind of books, 964 00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:33,806 And then I wanted to doim. political and celebrities., 965 00:46:33,841 --> 00:46:37,109 So, I did a book called You Don't Say! 966 00:46:37,145 --> 00:46:40,771 and I had pictures of movie actors and politicians... 967 00:46:40,806 --> 00:46:42,539 And a tragic thing happened there, too. 968 00:46:42,575 --> 00:46:45,584 That book would've been... 969 00:46:45,620 --> 00:46:49,121 I would've given up the comics and stayed with that. It was incredibly successful. 970 00:46:49,157 --> 00:46:51,882 Now, these are books made of pictures, real photos, 971 00:46:51,917 --> 00:46:53,325 and then you would place captions on them. 972 00:46:53,361 --> 00:46:57,163 Right. And these were magazine size. They weren't comic book size. 973 00:46:57,198 --> 00:46:59,923 I think they sold for a quarter or half a dollar then, 974 00:46:59,959 --> 00:47:02,793 and in those days that was like $3, $4 today. 975 00:47:02,828 --> 00:47:06,730 And the third issue of You Don't Say! 976 00:47:06,766 --> 00:47:08,732 which was selling fantastically, 977 00:47:08,768 --> 00:47:13,003 I put Jack Kennedy on the cover. 978 00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:14,838 I still remember the gag. He's making a speech, 979 00:47:14,874 --> 00:47:17,349 and he's standing in front of a railing, 980 00:47:17,385 --> 00:47:21,803 and there was the big seal of the President of the United States 981 00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:23,672 right in front of him on the railing, 982 00:47:23,707 --> 00:47:25,774 and behind him was another seal 983 00:47:25,809 --> 00:47:28,910 of the President of the United States. 984 00:47:28,946 --> 00:47:30,846 And he's standing there, and he's like this, 985 00:47:30,881 --> 00:47:32,647 and I put a dialogue balloon over his head, 986 00:47:32,683 --> 00:47:34,683 "Allow me to introduce myself." 987 00:47:34,718 --> 00:47:36,752 And it really... It was great. 988 00:47:36,787 --> 00:47:39,454 While the book was on the presses, 989 00:47:39,490 --> 00:47:41,757 he was assassinated. 990 00:47:41,792 --> 00:47:43,992 Well, we couldn't put the book out. 991 00:47:44,028 --> 00:47:48,964 We killed it, Martin lost a fortune, and again, 992 00:47:48,999 --> 00:47:51,600 I just lost the spirit to do that sort of thing. 993 00:47:51,635 --> 00:47:52,067 So, we gave that book up. 994 00:47:58,768 --> 00:48:00,768 So, now, at what point do superheroes 995 00:48:00,803 --> 00:48:04,572 kind of take hold and become the norm, 996 00:48:04,607 --> 00:48:06,741 as opposed to just a trend? 997 00:48:06,776 --> 00:48:08,042 I don't think that happened until... 998 00:48:09,612 --> 00:48:11,045 Really, until Marvel comics. 999 00:48:12,949 --> 00:48:15,323 What happened was, some time in the early '60s, 1000 00:48:15,359 --> 00:48:20,062 Martin Goodman was playing golf with the publisher of DC Comics. 1001 00:48:20,097 --> 00:48:23,758 I think they were called, National Comics at the time. 1002 00:48:23,793 --> 00:48:24,859 They later changed the name to DC. 1003 00:48:24,894 --> 00:48:27,728 And Marvel was still Timely at this point. 1004 00:48:27,764 --> 00:48:29,137 And the publisher said to Martin, 1005 00:48:29,173 --> 00:48:33,175 "You know, we've got this new book, the Justice League, 1006 00:48:33,210 --> 00:48:36,771 "and it's really selling well. It's a bunch of superheroes." 1007 00:48:36,806 --> 00:48:38,873 Well, that's all Martin had to hear. 1008 00:48:38,908 --> 00:48:40,833 He came back, running back to me and said, 1009 00:48:40,868 --> 00:48:42,735 "Stan, we gotta put out a bunch of heroes. 1010 00:48:42,770 --> 00:48:46,080 "You know, there's a market for it." 1011 00:48:46,115 --> 00:48:49,383 It just happened that at that time, I wanted to quit. 1012 00:48:49,419 --> 00:48:53,912 After all these years, I had made up my mind. I'm not getting anywhere. 1013 00:48:53,948 --> 00:48:57,591 It's a stupid business for a grownup to be in, 1014 00:48:57,627 --> 00:49:00,819 and I finally told my wife, "Honey, I just want to quit and do something else." 1015 00:49:00,855 --> 00:49:02,287 And how old were you about at this point? 1016 00:49:02,323 --> 00:49:03,756 About 40. 1017 00:49:03,791 --> 00:49:05,758 I had been in it too long, you know? 1018 00:49:05,793 --> 00:49:08,627 Oh, and the reason I wanted to quit, 1019 00:49:08,662 --> 00:49:10,062 I felt we're writing nonsense. 1020 00:49:12,208 --> 00:49:14,108 I was told... Martin always felt that the books were read 1021 00:49:16,312 --> 00:49:19,772 only by young kids, or adults who weren't that intelligent. 1022 00:49:19,807 --> 00:49:20,072 So, he didn't like me to use words 1023 00:49:21,942 --> 00:49:23,667 of more than two syllables in the dialogue. 1024 00:49:23,702 --> 00:49:25,902 He didn't want continued stories, 1025 00:49:25,938 --> 00:49:27,971 'cause the readers wouldn't have brains enough 1026 00:49:28,007 --> 00:49:29,206 to remember from month... And things like that. 1027 00:49:29,241 --> 00:49:30,574 Right. 1028 00:49:30,609 --> 00:49:31,441 I felt I was writing trash. 1029 00:49:31,477 --> 00:49:32,042 Right, right, right. 1030 00:49:34,155 --> 00:49:37,014 Joanie said to me, "If you're going to quit anyway, 1031 00:49:37,091 --> 00:49:38,682 "why don't you do a book the way you'd like to do it, 1032 00:49:38,717 --> 00:49:41,360 "and get it out of your system? 1033 00:49:41,395 --> 00:49:45,330 "The worst that'll happen, he'll fire you, and you want to quit." 1034 00:49:45,366 --> 00:49:50,469 So, I figured, okay. And I did that one book, the Fantastic Four. 1035 00:49:50,504 --> 00:49:53,997 A bunch of superheroes, but I tried to make them different than the others. 1036 00:49:54,033 --> 00:49:56,833 For one thing, they didn't have double identities. 1037 00:49:56,869 --> 00:50:00,412 Your very first superhero comic creation 1038 00:50:00,448 --> 00:50:02,639 that you created yourself, not just a character that you worked on, 1039 00:50:02,674 --> 00:50:03,733 but you came up with them. 1040 00:50:03,768 --> 00:50:05,034 Well, I had done others in the past, 1041 00:50:06,738 --> 00:50:09,312 but they're totally unmemorable. 1042 00:50:09,348 --> 00:50:12,708 I mean, I don't even... Names like the Destroyer, Father Time... 1043 00:50:12,744 --> 00:50:13,476 I must have done a hundred of them. 1044 00:50:13,511 --> 00:50:15,811 But they were nothing. 1045 00:50:15,847 --> 00:50:18,155 Yeah, the FF was one of the Marvel ones. 1046 00:50:18,190 --> 00:50:21,717 What makes you put those 4 particular archetypes together, 1047 00:50:21,753 --> 00:50:23,853 and call them the Fantastic Four? 1048 00:50:23,888 --> 00:50:26,822 I like to have characters to work with, 1049 00:50:26,858 --> 00:50:28,858 as though it's a movie or a soap opera 1050 00:50:28,893 --> 00:50:33,203 where the characters' own personal lives 1051 00:50:33,238 --> 00:50:37,374 would help write the dialogue, and come up with situations. 1052 00:50:37,409 --> 00:50:40,770 So, I thought I'll get one of them... You have to have a scientist. 1053 00:50:40,805 --> 00:50:43,180 He's the world's greatest scientist, 1054 00:50:43,215 --> 00:50:46,800 but he's also a little bit like me. He talks too much. 1055 00:50:46,836 --> 00:50:50,179 He tends to be dull, pedantic and boring. 1056 00:50:50,214 --> 00:50:54,408 And this gives the other guys a chance to rib him, you see? 1057 00:50:54,443 --> 00:50:55,776 So, I liked that. 1058 00:50:55,811 --> 00:50:57,911 I wanted to have a girl, and I felt, 1059 00:50:57,947 --> 00:51:00,814 "Well, I don't want her to be the usual girl. 1060 00:51:00,850 --> 00:51:02,491 "I want her to be in love with the guy." 1061 00:51:02,527 --> 00:51:07,821 Also, she gets a superpower, and that would be fun. She's part of the team. 1062 00:51:07,857 --> 00:51:09,623 So she won't just be a gal yelling help, 1063 00:51:09,658 --> 00:51:11,592 and the hero has to save her. 1064 00:51:11,627 --> 00:51:13,135 I wanted to get a teenager, 1065 00:51:13,171 --> 00:51:16,238 but I didn't want to get the typical comic book teenager. 1066 00:51:16,274 --> 00:51:19,141 I wanted to get a guy with his own superpower, The Human Torch, 1067 00:51:19,177 --> 00:51:23,112 and I stole that from Carl Burgos' original Human Torch. 1068 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:25,839 When I first went to work for Marvel, 1069 00:51:25,875 --> 00:51:28,667 they had that character, and I loved him. 1070 00:51:28,702 --> 00:51:31,512 And that was from Marvel Comics, 1071 00:51:31,547 --> 00:51:34,248 back when they were Timely, but the comic was actually called Marvel Comics. 1072 00:51:34,283 --> 00:51:37,676 And he hadn't been used for 20, 30, 40 years, I don't know. 1073 00:51:37,711 --> 00:51:39,978 So, I didn't use the same torch. 1074 00:51:40,014 --> 00:51:42,681 I used the name and the power, but I made him... 1075 00:51:42,716 --> 00:51:44,883 The original one was an android 1076 00:51:44,918 --> 00:51:46,785 who was an adult and a totally different guy. 1077 00:51:46,820 --> 00:51:49,688 I made this a teenager, 16-years-old, 1078 00:51:49,723 --> 00:51:52,891 who was Susan Storm's brother. 1079 00:51:52,926 --> 00:51:57,829 And he didn't really want to be a superhero. 1080 00:51:57,865 --> 00:51:58,764 He wanted to be like you or I would be. 1081 00:51:58,799 --> 00:52:00,032 He wanted to be out with the girls, 1082 00:52:00,109 --> 00:52:02,768 and driving a sports car and, you know, living it up. 1083 00:52:02,803 --> 00:52:04,469 So, I thought that was a nice touch. 1084 00:52:04,505 --> 00:52:06,738 Then the best one... 1085 00:52:06,774 --> 00:52:07,706 "The ever-loving blue-eyed Thing." 1086 00:52:07,741 --> 00:52:11,109 Oh, yeah! How I love the Thing. 1087 00:52:11,145 --> 00:52:14,346 I wanted somebody for humor, and a little bit of pathos. 1088 00:52:14,381 --> 00:52:19,676 So, when they're clobbered by cosmic rays, they all get superpower, 1089 00:52:19,711 --> 00:52:22,454 but they can get back to normal. 1090 00:52:22,489 --> 00:52:25,648 This guy turned into the Thing ,and he couldn't change back to Ben Grimm, 1091 00:52:25,684 --> 00:52:28,885 the normal pilot he had been. 1092 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,720 Kind of conceited for a guy who's a monster. 1093 00:52:30,756 --> 00:52:32,889 He still thought a lot of himself. 1094 00:52:32,924 --> 00:52:35,792 And he was always fighting with the teenager. 1095 00:52:35,827 --> 00:52:37,727 The teenager would give him a hotfoot, 1096 00:52:37,763 --> 00:52:40,305 he'd throw things at the teenager, 1097 00:52:40,340 --> 00:52:43,633 and it was almost like Abbott and Costello or Laurel and Hardy. 1098 00:52:43,668 --> 00:52:45,969 I was able to get, I think, 1099 00:52:46,004 --> 00:52:49,072 so much exciting comedy in with the two of them, 1100 00:52:50,801 --> 00:52:53,076 and it balanced out the seriousness of 1101 00:52:53,111 --> 00:52:55,704 having to save the world from Doctor Doom all the time. 1102 00:52:55,740 --> 00:52:58,114 Now, Doctor Doom is yours as well? 1103 00:52:58,150 --> 00:53:00,242 Oh, yeah, Doctor Doom is my favorite all-time villain. 1104 00:53:00,277 --> 00:53:02,218 Why so? 1105 00:53:02,254 --> 00:53:06,423 Well, first of all, by making him king of his own country. 1106 00:53:06,458 --> 00:53:09,259 I didn't know of any villain who had ever been king of his own country. 1107 00:53:09,294 --> 00:53:12,955 And, you know, it's funny, I gave the country the name Latveria. 1108 00:53:12,990 --> 00:53:14,890 I think it's the best name I ever came up with, 1109 00:53:14,925 --> 00:53:16,792 'cause I've had people look it up on a map. 1110 00:53:16,827 --> 00:53:18,494 I mean, it sounds like a real country. 1111 00:53:18,529 --> 00:53:19,962 Yeah, like it exists. 1112 00:53:19,997 --> 00:53:24,340 Nothing sounds more like a country than Latveria. 1113 00:53:24,376 --> 00:53:27,636 By being a king, when he comes to America, you can't arrest him. 1114 00:53:27,671 --> 00:53:29,071 He's got diplomatic immunity. 1115 00:53:30,775 --> 00:53:32,733 I love that. Oh, and another thing 1116 00:53:32,768 --> 00:53:34,968 that I always got a big kick out of. 1117 00:53:35,004 --> 00:53:38,047 You or I could cross the street against the light, 1118 00:53:38,082 --> 00:53:42,676 and a cop might stop us and say, "You're jaywalking," 1119 00:53:42,711 --> 00:53:44,878 and he might give us a citation. 1120 00:53:44,913 --> 00:53:47,714 But you or I could do what Doctor Doom does. 1121 00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:50,817 We could walk up to a cop and say, 1122 00:53:50,853 --> 00:53:53,429 "Officer, we want to conquer the world." 1123 00:53:53,464 --> 00:53:58,792 There's no crime. You cannot be arrested for wanting to conquer the world. 1124 00:53:58,827 --> 00:54:00,169 And that's all that Doctor Doom wants. 1125 00:54:00,204 --> 00:54:05,240 So, he's the world's biggest villain, powerful, dangerous, 1126 00:54:05,276 --> 00:54:08,869 but all he wants is to conquer the world. That's not a crime. 1127 00:54:08,904 --> 00:54:09,069 There's no law on the books for that one. 1128 00:54:10,939 --> 00:54:12,806 And even if it were, you couldn't arrest him. 1129 00:54:12,841 --> 00:54:14,899 Jack Kirby used to kid around with it. 1130 00:54:14,935 --> 00:54:17,669 Every so often, he would draw a little sketch 1131 00:54:17,704 --> 00:54:19,738 of Doctor Doom with his mask off, 1132 00:54:19,773 --> 00:54:21,639 and of course, he always had my face. 1133 00:54:21,675 --> 00:54:22,040 Right, it was Stan underneath. 1134 00:54:24,253 --> 00:54:26,219 Yeah, Doom was great. And then I figured, "Okay, that's it. 1135 00:54:26,255 --> 00:54:29,447 "I'm gonna get fired, goodbye, I got it out of my system." 1136 00:54:29,483 --> 00:54:31,049 The book sold great! 1137 00:54:38,367 --> 00:54:41,168 Martin asked me to do another, and I figured, "Well, I'm on a roll." 1138 00:54:41,203 --> 00:54:43,495 So I figured, now I'm gonna make a hero out of a monster. 1139 00:54:43,530 --> 00:54:45,063 And that was the Hulk. 1140 00:54:46,867 --> 00:54:48,733 I sort of was influenced by Frankenstein. 1141 00:54:48,769 --> 00:54:51,578 You know, the Boris Karloff movie? 1142 00:54:51,613 --> 00:54:55,632 Because in that movie, I always thought the monster, Karloff, was the good guy. 1143 00:54:55,668 --> 00:54:58,309 He didn't wanna hurt anybody. 1144 00:54:58,345 --> 00:55:00,471 Those idiots with torches were chasing him up and down hills. 1145 00:55:00,506 --> 00:55:02,973 Right. Misunderstood. 1146 00:55:03,009 --> 00:55:05,843 So I thought, "Let's make him a lovable monster." 1147 00:55:05,878 --> 00:55:08,153 And then I always liked Jekyll and Hyde. 1148 00:55:08,188 --> 00:55:11,915 So to keep to keep it in line with the superhero formula, 1149 00:55:11,951 --> 00:55:14,018 I felt, "Let's give him a double identity." 1150 00:55:14,094 --> 00:55:16,687 He's a monster, and he's also a guy like Kevin Smith. 1151 00:55:16,722 --> 00:55:19,056 So we did that, and that worked. 1152 00:55:20,926 --> 00:55:22,626 So then Martin said, "Let's do another one." 1153 00:55:22,661 --> 00:55:24,202 And then the rest is history. 1154 00:55:24,237 --> 00:55:26,296 SMITH: And how did Hulk take off when it first came out? 1155 00:55:26,332 --> 00:55:27,765 Very well. 1156 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,441 People instantly kind of got into it? 1157 00:55:29,476 --> 00:55:33,837 It's funny. It's almost like there was something in the air at that time. 1158 00:55:33,873 --> 00:55:36,381 It was like we could do nothing wrong. 1159 00:55:36,416 --> 00:55:40,002 All of them became popular, and all of them seem to have lasted. 1160 00:55:40,079 --> 00:55:43,872 Characters like the Fantastic Four and the Hulk, 1161 00:55:43,907 --> 00:55:46,283 characters that are born in the atomic age, 1162 00:55:46,318 --> 00:55:49,745 following the first atom bomb, years after the first atom bomb, 1163 00:55:49,780 --> 00:55:52,256 but in an age of science and wonder, 1164 00:55:52,291 --> 00:55:54,850 where it... Look, we've split an atom, and look what it can do. 1165 00:55:54,885 --> 00:55:56,818 So, I've always felt the Marvel characters 1166 00:55:56,854 --> 00:55:59,163 are characters that are born in science. 1167 00:55:59,198 --> 00:56:01,890 Conversely, the DC characters are characters that are... 1168 00:56:01,925 --> 00:56:03,759 You know, Superman comes from another planet, 1169 00:56:03,794 --> 00:56:05,660 and Wonder Woman is a Greek goddess, 1170 00:56:05,696 --> 00:56:07,371 and Batman was born in tragedy, 1171 00:56:07,406 --> 00:56:10,699 but the Marvel characters have always been very scientifically bent, 1172 00:56:10,734 --> 00:56:12,601 very science-fiction oriented. 1173 00:56:12,636 --> 00:56:13,869 Where did that come from? 1174 00:56:13,904 --> 00:56:16,071 Well, I gotta tell you, it's an anomaly. 1175 00:56:17,574 --> 00:56:19,899 I love science fiction, 1176 00:56:19,935 --> 00:56:23,078 but nobody knows less about science than I do. 1177 00:56:23,113 --> 00:56:27,082 And all I did, 'cause I'm lazy, I took the easy way out. 1178 00:56:28,285 --> 00:56:32,712 I figured, "Well, the guy has to become the Hulk in some way. 1179 00:56:32,748 --> 00:56:34,981 "Let him be hit by a gamma bomb." 1180 00:56:35,017 --> 00:56:37,784 Now, I wouldn't know a gamma ray from an eggplant, 1181 00:56:37,819 --> 00:56:40,820 but it sounded good, "a gamma bomb." 1182 00:56:40,856 --> 00:56:42,330 And I don't know much about radiation, 1183 00:56:42,366 --> 00:56:47,794 but with Spider-Man, I figured he'd been bit by a radioactive spider, 1184 00:56:47,829 --> 00:56:49,729 and now I can get on with the story. 1185 00:56:49,765 --> 00:56:51,898 Certainly with the Fantastic Four, 1186 00:56:51,933 --> 00:56:54,734 I figured out they'll be hit by cosmic rays. 1187 00:56:54,770 --> 00:56:55,468 I don't know what a cosmic ray is. 1188 00:56:55,504 --> 00:56:56,278 Right, right, right. 1189 00:56:56,313 --> 00:57:00,248 But it sounded... See, to me, things just have to sound good. 1190 00:57:00,284 --> 00:57:04,769 I guess I'm the biggest phony in the world, really, and, um... 1191 00:57:04,804 --> 00:57:07,147 Well, to give you an example, though, 1192 00:57:07,182 --> 00:57:11,217 I may be selling myself short, 'cause I may have some... 1193 00:57:11,253 --> 00:57:16,948 Some subtle scientific leanings that I'm not even aware of. 1194 00:57:16,983 --> 00:57:18,182 You know our character Thor, the God of Thunder? 1195 00:57:18,218 --> 00:57:19,951 Yes. 1196 00:57:19,986 --> 00:57:22,053 I wanted him to be able to fly through the sky, 1197 00:57:23,790 --> 00:57:25,757 but not like Superman, who, to me, 1198 00:57:25,792 --> 00:57:28,359 has no visible means of propulsion. 1199 00:57:28,395 --> 00:57:30,762 He just flies. 1200 00:57:30,797 --> 00:57:34,665 But I wanted to be purely scientific, 1201 00:57:34,701 --> 00:57:37,110 so I gave him this big hammer, 1202 00:57:37,145 --> 00:57:41,281 and I had it fastened by a leather thong to his wrist. 1203 00:57:41,316 --> 00:57:44,568 Now, when he wanted to fly, he'd swing that hammer around. 1204 00:57:44,603 --> 00:57:45,902 And just propel himself up. 1205 00:57:45,938 --> 00:57:49,514 Then let it go. It would fly through the air, 1206 00:57:49,549 --> 00:57:53,151 and, being tied to his wrist, it would drag him with it. Purely scientific... 1207 00:57:53,186 --> 00:57:54,778 SMITH: So, it kinda makes sense. There's a logic to it. 1208 00:57:54,813 --> 00:57:56,046 Sure. So I may have sold myself short 1209 00:57:57,916 --> 00:58:00,324 when I said I'm not scientifically inclined. 1210 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,253 The hammer is... A lot of people can never pronounce the hammer. 1211 00:58:03,288 --> 00:58:05,956 Mjolnir? 1212 00:58:05,991 --> 00:58:08,759 But the people who can't pronounce it correctly 1213 00:58:08,794 --> 00:58:10,060 don't have to be concerned about it, 1214 00:58:11,997 --> 00:58:15,540 'cause I think my brother Larry made that up, 1215 00:58:15,575 --> 00:58:19,110 and it's just a made-up word, so feel free to pronounce it any way you want. 1216 00:58:24,801 --> 00:58:26,701 Your brother wrote for comics as well? 1217 00:58:26,737 --> 00:58:29,212 Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was quite good. 1218 00:58:29,248 --> 00:58:32,440 In the beginning, if I came up with the idea for some things 1219 00:58:32,476 --> 00:58:33,041 like I did for Thor, 1220 00:58:34,945 --> 00:58:37,187 I didn't have time to write the actual scripts. 1221 00:58:37,222 --> 00:58:39,481 I would tell Larry what I want, and he wrote the scripts. 1222 00:58:39,516 --> 00:58:40,982 They worked out fine. 1223 00:58:41,018 --> 00:58:43,093 Now, that... Some people refer to that or it's been 1224 00:58:43,128 --> 00:58:45,854 referred to as the Marvel method for many, many years 1225 00:58:45,889 --> 00:58:47,989 where somebody will come up with a story, 1226 00:58:48,025 --> 00:58:49,057 and basically tell the artist what's gonna happen, 1227 00:58:50,627 --> 00:58:52,894 an artist will go draw it, 1228 00:58:52,929 --> 00:58:54,662 and then the dialogue man comes in later on, 1229 00:58:54,698 --> 00:58:58,141 and adds the story, the text. 1230 00:58:58,177 --> 00:59:01,111 That's what you guys created and did for many years. 1231 00:59:02,839 --> 00:59:05,073 That is probably my proudest creation, 1232 00:59:06,768 --> 00:59:10,737 and it happened purely through need. 1233 00:59:10,772 --> 00:59:12,939 What happened was, in the beginning, 1234 00:59:12,974 --> 00:59:15,508 I was writing almost all the stories for Marvel, 1235 00:59:15,543 --> 00:59:17,677 and I couldn't keep up. 1236 00:59:17,712 --> 00:59:19,846 And the artists were freelance, 1237 00:59:19,881 --> 00:59:22,190 which meant they only got paid per page. 1238 00:59:22,225 --> 00:59:26,953 If they drew a page, they got paid. They weren't on salary. 1239 00:59:26,988 --> 00:59:31,057 So, let's say Jack Kirby was drawing a script, 1240 00:59:32,927 --> 00:59:35,336 and I was writing a script for Steve Ditko, 1241 00:59:35,372 --> 00:59:40,900 and then John Buscema would come in and say, "Stan, I need a script." 1242 00:59:40,935 --> 00:59:42,769 I couldn't stop what I was doing for Ditko, 1243 00:59:42,804 --> 00:59:44,079 but I had to give Buscema a script, 1244 00:59:44,114 --> 00:59:48,374 'cause if he didn't have one, he's not making money. 1245 00:59:48,410 --> 00:59:50,635 So I would say, "Look, Steve, I don't have time to write your script, 1246 00:59:50,671 --> 00:59:53,872 "but here's the story I want." 1247 00:59:53,907 --> 00:59:57,943 And I would tell him generally what I wanted. 1248 00:59:57,978 --> 01:00:00,779 He would go home and draw it any way he wanted, 1249 01:00:00,814 --> 01:00:04,090 bring the illustrations back to me, 1250 01:00:04,125 --> 01:00:06,818 and then I would put in the dialogue and the captions. 1251 01:00:06,854 --> 01:00:08,887 Now, it started as an emergency measure. 1252 01:00:08,922 --> 01:00:12,165 It was the only way to keep these guys busy. 1253 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,460 But I realized you get better stories that way, because... 1254 01:00:15,496 --> 01:00:18,271 Very collaborative. 1255 01:00:18,306 --> 01:00:20,799 I was so lucky. I had the best artists you could ever imagine. 1256 01:00:20,834 --> 01:00:25,003 Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, John Romita, 1257 01:00:25,039 --> 01:00:28,840 John Buscema, Gene Colan, and on and on. Gil Kane. 1258 01:00:28,876 --> 01:00:31,801 These guys thought like movie directors, 1259 01:00:31,837 --> 01:00:34,037 and they were really visual storytellers. 1260 01:00:35,774 --> 01:00:37,707 They were writers in their own way. 1261 01:00:37,743 --> 01:00:39,042 So when I would give them a plot, 1262 01:00:40,712 --> 01:00:42,846 they knew how to break it down. 1263 01:00:42,881 --> 01:00:44,781 They knew how to begin it, how to end it, 1264 01:00:44,816 --> 01:00:47,384 where to put the interesting parts in. 1265 01:00:47,419 --> 01:00:48,051 If they didn't, 1266 01:00:49,821 --> 01:00:52,689 I could help in my writing in this way. 1267 01:00:52,724 --> 01:00:54,858 If I found that there was a page 1268 01:00:54,893 --> 01:00:57,060 or some panels that looked a little dull, 1269 01:00:58,964 --> 01:01:01,831 I'd add a lot of dialogue and sound effects, 1270 01:01:01,867 --> 01:01:05,143 and whatever I could to jazz up the page. 1271 01:01:05,179 --> 01:01:09,806 If the artwork was incredibly absorbing and exciting, 1272 01:01:09,841 --> 01:01:13,001 I put as little dialogue as possible. 1273 01:01:13,078 --> 01:01:16,212 So, in a way, I tried to make the dialogue balloons 1274 01:01:16,248 --> 01:01:20,708 part of the artwork, you know, to give it the look I wanted. 1275 01:01:20,744 --> 01:01:22,910 I loved making up sound effects. 1276 01:01:22,946 --> 01:01:25,313 One of my favorites was "kbooom" or something. 1277 01:01:25,348 --> 01:01:28,425 K-b-o-o-o-m. 1278 01:01:28,460 --> 01:01:30,093 And I had a little asterisk at the end of it with a caption that said, 1279 01:01:31,821 --> 01:01:33,688 "Obviously, the third 'o' is silent." 1280 01:01:33,723 --> 01:01:35,790 I used to love putting in little, 1281 01:01:35,825 --> 01:01:37,058 important scholarly notes like that. 1282 01:01:45,210 --> 01:01:49,345 Our company isn't what it used to be. We now have fans. 1283 01:01:49,381 --> 01:01:52,449 It's a whole new thing, and I felt we ought to change the name, 1284 01:01:52,484 --> 01:01:58,004 and change it to Marvel because the first book that Martin ever published 1285 01:01:58,006 --> 01:02:00,940 when I came to work there was called Marvel Comics. 1286 01:02:00,975 --> 01:02:03,484 So, just out of sentiment, I called it Marvel. 1287 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,154 Now, did you become Editor in Chief while Martin was still around, still alive? 1288 01:02:06,189 --> 01:02:09,682 Oh, I had always been. When Joe Simon and Jack Kirby left, 1289 01:02:09,717 --> 01:02:12,818 when I was about 17-years-old, 1290 01:02:12,854 --> 01:02:15,021 Martin needed somebody to replace them. 1291 01:02:15,023 --> 01:02:17,065 It was a small company. It was really Joe and Jack. 1292 01:02:17,100 --> 01:02:20,726 So, he said to me, "Can you handle being the Editor 1293 01:02:20,762 --> 01:02:22,061 "while I look for a real person?" 1294 01:02:23,339 --> 01:02:27,767 And when you're 17, what do you know? I said, "Sure! I can do it." 1295 01:02:27,802 --> 01:02:28,734 He must've forgotten all about it, 1296 01:02:28,770 --> 01:02:30,144 'cause I stayed there ever since. 1297 01:02:30,180 --> 01:02:34,632 So, I functioned as Editor, Art Director, and Head Writer. 1298 01:02:34,668 --> 01:02:35,834 Now, when you become Publisher 1299 01:02:35,869 --> 01:02:37,802 and kind of turn over the writing reigns, 1300 01:02:37,838 --> 01:02:40,705 how involved do you stay at that point? 1301 01:02:40,741 --> 01:02:41,706 Are you still looking over scripts 1302 01:02:41,742 --> 01:02:44,376 or looking over the artwork still? 1303 01:02:44,411 --> 01:02:45,810 I have a theory. 1304 01:02:45,846 --> 01:02:48,580 When you work with artists and writers, 1305 01:02:48,615 --> 01:02:50,515 any kind of creative people, 1306 01:02:50,550 --> 01:02:52,984 you get their best work 1307 01:02:53,020 --> 01:02:56,054 if you let them do it the way they want to do it. 1308 01:02:57,691 --> 01:02:58,723 Now, they have to be talented. 1309 01:02:58,759 --> 01:03:00,058 If they're not talented, forget it. 1310 01:03:02,236 --> 01:03:05,204 But you get a guy with talent, you can't tell him too much. 1311 01:03:05,239 --> 01:03:07,732 You can't say, "You don't do it this way. Do it that way." 1312 01:03:07,768 --> 01:03:08,967 You gotta let him do it his way. 1313 01:03:09,002 --> 01:03:12,904 Now, maybe that was an excuse for me being lazy, 1314 01:03:12,939 --> 01:03:14,072 but I pretty much tried to keep hands-off 1315 01:03:15,809 --> 01:03:17,667 'cause, again, as I say, I was lucky. 1316 01:03:17,702 --> 01:03:20,903 I had built up the greatest staff 1317 01:03:20,939 --> 01:03:23,181 of artists and writers you could find anywhere. 1318 01:03:23,216 --> 01:03:24,774 And that was traditionally referred to as the Silver Age, 1319 01:03:24,809 --> 01:03:26,342 but really was a golden age of comics. 1320 01:03:26,378 --> 01:03:28,011 It was for me. 1321 01:03:28,088 --> 01:03:30,646 And this was the period before TV kind of takes over 1322 01:03:30,682 --> 01:03:32,190 as much as it eventually does, 1323 01:03:32,225 --> 01:03:34,851 and long before the video game, long before the internet. 1324 01:03:34,886 --> 01:03:37,020 So, kids are still reading comics like mad, 1325 01:03:37,097 --> 01:03:40,957 and you are the ambassador of comics at that point 1326 01:03:40,992 --> 01:03:42,492 even to this day, of course, but at that point, 1327 01:03:42,527 --> 01:03:44,427 I'm a kid in the '70s, 1328 01:03:44,462 --> 01:03:46,796 you know Stan Lee. 1329 01:03:46,831 --> 01:03:49,107 Because if you go to a comic book show 1330 01:03:49,142 --> 01:03:52,935 or if you read the Marvel Bullpen, Stan's Soapbox, 1331 01:03:52,971 --> 01:03:55,180 you were everywhere. You're the face of comics. 1332 01:03:55,215 --> 01:03:57,874 It's fair to say that you're the most well-known person 1333 01:03:57,909 --> 01:04:00,901 in comics to people in the comics audience 1334 01:04:00,937 --> 01:04:02,870 and people well outside the comics audience. 1335 01:04:02,905 --> 01:04:04,939 Well, you know, it's funny, at one point, 1336 01:04:04,974 --> 01:04:06,774 I guess they didn't know what else to do with me. 1337 01:04:06,809 --> 01:04:09,710 But I was made the President of Marvel. 1338 01:04:09,746 --> 01:04:12,321 And I thought, "Oh, wow, President! 1339 01:04:12,357 --> 01:04:16,259 "Now I'll really be able to do things the way I want to do them." 1340 01:04:16,294 --> 01:04:17,685 Didn't work out that way. I found that all that I was doing 1341 01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:21,197 was going to financial meetings, 1342 01:04:21,232 --> 01:04:24,658 and I had to come up with what they call "3 year plans," 1343 01:04:24,694 --> 01:04:27,437 5 year plans for the business. 1344 01:04:27,472 --> 01:04:29,730 I'm a guy who doesn't know what I'm gonna have for lunch the same day, 1345 01:04:29,766 --> 01:04:32,933 and I had to have a 3 year plan. 1346 01:04:32,969 --> 01:04:36,579 And I suddenly realized I am doing something 1347 01:04:36,614 --> 01:04:40,633 that millions of people can do better than I can do, which is financial stuff, 1348 01:04:40,669 --> 01:04:42,836 and the thing I enjoyed doing, 1349 01:04:42,871 --> 01:04:44,245 the creative stuff, I'm not doing anymore. 1350 01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:48,675 So, as you can well imagine, I didn't stay President very long. 1351 01:04:48,710 --> 01:04:50,810 I gave that up pretty fast, yeah. 1352 01:04:50,846 --> 01:04:53,046 One other thing that I think Marvel did, 1353 01:04:54,449 --> 01:04:55,048 and did very well, 1354 01:04:56,426 --> 01:05:02,689 I tried to make the readers feel they're more than just casual readers, 1355 01:05:02,724 --> 01:05:04,057 but we're all part of a family, 1356 01:05:05,727 --> 01:05:07,201 we're all part of an inner group, 1357 01:05:07,236 --> 01:05:11,172 we're having fun, and the outside world isn't aware of it. 1358 01:05:11,207 --> 01:05:15,502 And I tried doing that with the Soapbox column I wrote, 1359 01:05:15,537 --> 01:05:16,936 with the Bullpen page. 1360 01:05:16,972 --> 01:05:18,705 Very much so. You kind of lifted the curtain 1361 01:05:18,740 --> 01:05:20,114 between audience and the creators 1362 01:05:20,149 --> 01:05:24,577 and said, "This is what it's like here. Check it out." 1363 01:05:24,613 --> 01:05:27,939 It invites the audience in, and it does kind of create a familial feeling about it. 1364 01:05:27,974 --> 01:05:29,607 And they'll follow you to the ends of the earth. 1365 01:05:29,642 --> 01:05:30,875 I did that very consciously. 1366 01:05:30,910 --> 01:05:34,012 You know, before Marvel, as far as I know, 1367 01:05:34,089 --> 01:05:36,914 no other comic company played up who wrote the story, 1368 01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:38,049 who drew it, who lettered it, who edited it. 1369 01:05:39,919 --> 01:05:42,095 Maybe this is why I'm so impressed with you. 1370 01:05:42,130 --> 01:05:44,789 I mean, there are a lot of reasons. I love movies. 1371 01:05:44,824 --> 01:05:47,291 You are such a fantastic movie-maker. 1372 01:05:47,327 --> 01:05:48,693 Thank you. 1373 01:05:48,728 --> 01:05:50,795 I wanted to make the comics seem 1374 01:05:50,830 --> 01:05:53,865 to be like movies as much as possible. 1375 01:05:53,900 --> 01:05:57,343 And I thought why not have screen credits? 1376 01:05:57,379 --> 01:06:01,314 So, I started listing "Written by Stan Lee, drawn by Jack Kirby." 1377 01:06:01,349 --> 01:06:04,867 Then I thought why not make it even warmer and more friendly? 1378 01:06:04,902 --> 01:06:07,803 So it was suddenly written by "Smilin' Stan," 1379 01:06:07,839 --> 01:06:11,774 by "Jolly Jack," by "Sturdy Steve Ditko." 1380 01:06:11,809 --> 01:06:13,376 I think he probably always hated that. 1381 01:06:13,411 --> 01:06:14,944 (SMITH LAUGHING) 1382 01:06:14,979 --> 01:06:18,914 John Romita, I called him "Jazzy Johnny Romita," 1383 01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:22,260 and then sometimes "Johnny Ring-a-Ding Romita." 1384 01:06:22,295 --> 01:06:24,095 I'm sure he hated it, but, well, I was the Editor, I did it. 1385 01:06:26,332 --> 01:06:29,025 So, by giving everybody nicknames and putting their names there, 1386 01:06:29,102 --> 01:06:33,538 and by writing the Soapbox and the Bullpen Bulletins 1387 01:06:33,573 --> 01:06:36,732 and even with the mail, we were the first, I believe, to have letters pages. 1388 01:06:36,768 --> 01:06:38,968 The other companies did it, too. 1389 01:06:39,003 --> 01:06:43,514 But when, for example, DC would get a fan letter, 1390 01:06:43,550 --> 01:06:46,075 the letter would be printed, and it would say something like, "Dear Editor, 1391 01:06:47,604 --> 01:06:49,445 "I didn't like this story," 1392 01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:54,316 or, "I did like this story," Blah, blah, blah. "Signed, Charles Brown." 1393 01:06:54,352 --> 01:06:57,912 And the answer would be, "Dear Charles, thank you for your letter. 1394 01:06:57,948 --> 01:07:00,548 "Sincerely, the Editor." Something like that. 1395 01:07:00,584 --> 01:07:02,717 If I got the same letter, 1396 01:07:02,753 --> 01:07:04,886 I would cross out the word editor 1397 01:07:04,921 --> 01:07:07,922 and I'd print it, it would say "Dear Stan," 1398 01:07:07,958 --> 01:07:10,959 and for the signature if it was Charlie Brown, 1399 01:07:10,994 --> 01:07:15,137 I'd cross out Charles Brown, I'd write Charlie, 1400 01:07:15,173 --> 01:07:19,275 and in my answer, I'd make some sort of a gag, you know? 1401 01:07:19,310 --> 01:07:21,036 "Hey, glad you wrote. We thought we didn't have any readers. 1402 01:07:21,112 --> 01:07:23,571 "Now we know we have one." Anything that was a gag. 1403 01:07:23,607 --> 01:07:26,408 So, it was a little thing, 1404 01:07:26,443 --> 01:07:31,771 but it was trying to give a feeling of warmth, a feeling of friendliness. 1405 01:07:31,806 --> 01:07:34,674 Don't call me Editor. Call me Stan. 1406 01:07:34,709 --> 01:07:35,975 And I don't want to call you Joe. 1407 01:07:36,011 --> 01:07:39,879 I want to call you Joey. You know, whatever it is. 1408 01:07:39,914 --> 01:07:42,048 And it seemed to work. Then we had a club. 1409 01:07:43,718 --> 01:07:44,050 I decided we had so many fans, 1410 01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:47,420 'cause we were now getting a lot of fan mail. 1411 01:07:47,455 --> 01:07:48,988 Let's form a club. 1412 01:07:49,024 --> 01:07:50,757 So, again, I didn't want to do it an ordinary way, 1413 01:07:50,792 --> 01:07:53,693 so I started it out as a contest. 1414 01:07:53,728 --> 01:07:56,029 I wrote that we're having a club, 1415 01:07:56,031 --> 01:07:58,431 and that the name, the initials of the club's name 1416 01:07:58,466 --> 01:08:01,076 would be M.M.M.S. 1417 01:08:01,111 --> 01:08:04,179 And I would keep this up in the Bullpen Bulletin page, 1418 01:08:04,214 --> 01:08:08,866 and I said we'll give a prize for whoever guesses the name. 1419 01:08:08,901 --> 01:08:11,277 And I ran this thing for months giving clues, 1420 01:08:11,312 --> 01:08:16,315 finally we announced it was the Merry Marvel Marching Society. 1421 01:08:16,351 --> 01:08:19,944 We didn't know where we were marching to, but we were on the way. 1422 01:08:19,979 --> 01:08:23,189 And it's fresh on my mind 'cause a fan sent me 1423 01:08:23,224 --> 01:08:28,094 a CD yesterday that I listened to, of a record that we did. 1424 01:08:29,622 --> 01:08:32,023 Those who joined the club... 1425 01:08:32,100 --> 01:08:33,791 In those days, for a penny or less than a penny each, 1426 01:08:33,826 --> 01:08:37,028 you could make a little plastic record. 1427 01:08:37,105 --> 01:08:39,105 I marched the whole bullpen to a recording studio, 1428 01:08:40,933 --> 01:08:42,767 and we tried to be funny for a few minutes. 1429 01:08:42,802 --> 01:08:44,902 The corniest thing you ever heard, 1430 01:08:44,937 --> 01:08:46,737 and I'm talking to Jack Kirby and Artie Simek 1431 01:08:46,773 --> 01:08:49,840 and Sol Brodsky and all the guys. 1432 01:08:49,876 --> 01:08:51,800 We were all trying to upstage each other. 1433 01:08:51,836 --> 01:08:55,738 It was ridiculous, but the fans loved it. 1434 01:08:55,773 --> 01:08:56,972 They were listening to the voices 1435 01:08:57,008 --> 01:08:58,907 of the people whose stuff they had been reading. 1436 01:08:58,943 --> 01:09:01,710 It's like a forerunner of the DVD commentaries 1437 01:09:01,746 --> 01:09:03,779 and behind-the-scenes stuff, yeah. 1438 01:09:03,814 --> 01:09:05,881 And then, this fellow on the record, 1439 01:09:05,916 --> 01:09:08,584 he sent me something I forgot. We had a song. 1440 01:09:08,619 --> 01:09:10,586 ¶ March along March along 1441 01:09:10,621 --> 01:09:12,855 ¶ March along March along 1442 01:09:12,890 --> 01:09:16,692 ¶ With The Merry Marvel Marching Society 1443 01:09:16,727 --> 01:09:17,059 ¶ You'll belong You'll belong ¶ 1444 01:09:18,329 --> 01:09:19,695 On and on. 1445 01:09:19,730 --> 01:09:21,530 ¶ And stand A little straighter 1446 01:09:21,565 --> 01:09:22,064 ¶ Walk a little prouder 1447 01:09:23,768 --> 01:09:26,535 ¶ Be a something, Be an innovator 1448 01:09:26,570 --> 01:09:28,704 ¶ Talk a little louder 1449 01:09:28,739 --> 01:09:30,706 ¶ And where will you be then? 1450 01:09:30,741 --> 01:09:32,400 ¶ You'll belong You'll belong ¶ 1451 01:09:32,435 --> 01:09:33,534 It went on and on. 1452 01:09:33,570 --> 01:09:34,369 You missed your calling. 1453 01:09:34,404 --> 01:09:36,037 I mean, clearly. 1454 01:09:41,878 --> 01:09:45,087 Another thing that set Marvel apart from, 1455 01:09:45,122 --> 01:09:48,090 you know, our distinguished competition if you will, 1456 01:09:49,419 --> 01:09:51,293 was continuity. 1457 01:09:51,328 --> 01:10:02,104 That's something that you guys firmly established before DC did. 1458 01:10:02,139 --> 01:10:04,106 Some stories in comics, iprior to your tenure at Marvee 1459 01:10:04,141 --> 01:10:05,867 and the next story wouldn't necessarily have anything 1460 01:10:05,902 --> 01:10:06,834 to do with the story that happened before, 1461 01:10:06,870 --> 01:10:08,803 a story that happened the year before. 1462 01:10:08,838 --> 01:10:11,005 You guys got densely into continuity. 1463 01:10:11,041 --> 01:10:14,867 Well, most of our characters, if not all of them, 1464 01:10:14,902 --> 01:10:17,003 most of our stories took place in New York. 1465 01:10:17,005 --> 01:10:19,739 SMITH: Right, and that was an important aspect of it. 1466 01:10:19,774 --> 01:10:22,216 Whereas DC had Metropolis and Gotham, 1467 01:10:22,252 --> 01:10:25,711 you guys were firmly rooted in the real world, in Manhattan. 1468 01:10:25,747 --> 01:10:26,679 That was part of what I mentioned, 1469 01:10:26,714 --> 01:10:29,915 trying to make fantasy realistic. 1470 01:10:29,951 --> 01:10:32,985 So, instead of Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, 1471 01:10:33,021 --> 01:10:36,222 driving a whiz-bang V8, he drove a Chevy Corvette. 1472 01:10:36,257 --> 01:10:37,990 Right. 1473 01:10:38,026 --> 01:10:41,069 And instead of them going to the Bijou Theater, 1474 01:10:41,104 --> 01:10:43,829 they went to the Radio City Music Hall and so forth. 1475 01:10:43,865 --> 01:10:45,865 Even their address, I had them living... 1476 01:10:45,900 --> 01:10:48,701 The Fantastic Four had their headquarters 1477 01:10:48,736 --> 01:10:50,703 on the east side of Manhattan. 1478 01:10:50,738 --> 01:10:52,772 Spider-Man lived in Forest Hills 1479 01:10:52,807 --> 01:10:54,673 just across the river, and so forth. 1480 01:10:54,709 --> 01:10:56,967 Now, the reason I did that, 1481 01:10:57,003 --> 01:10:59,870 because I was from New York, and I knew New York. 1482 01:10:59,905 --> 01:11:02,806 So, it made it easier to write the stories. 1483 01:11:02,842 --> 01:11:04,041 I knew the landmarks and the settings. 1484 01:11:05,845 --> 01:11:08,087 And then it occurred to me after a while, 1485 01:11:08,122 --> 01:11:10,089 if they're all in the same city, why don't they meet? 1486 01:11:12,260 --> 01:11:14,093 You know, comics often had guest stars, but for no reason. 1487 01:11:15,955 --> 01:11:16,954 One character would be with another character. 1488 01:11:16,989 --> 01:11:19,790 In our books, when they guested in a story, 1489 01:11:19,825 --> 01:11:21,725 it was 'cause for some reason they met 1490 01:11:21,761 --> 01:11:23,861 during the course of the story. 1491 01:11:23,896 --> 01:11:25,729 We used to have things, if for example, 1492 01:11:25,765 --> 01:11:28,899 Reed Richards, the Fantastic Four, 1493 01:11:28,934 --> 01:11:31,068 if he needed a lawyer, I'd have him go to... 1494 01:11:32,505 --> 01:11:33,771 SMITH: Matt Murdock. 1495 01:11:33,806 --> 01:11:34,738 Thank you for helping me with that. 1496 01:11:34,774 --> 01:11:38,275 To Matt Murdock, who was Daredevil. 1497 01:11:38,310 --> 01:11:41,537 And again, in trying to think, "What can I do that's different?" 1498 01:11:41,573 --> 01:11:43,706 We never had a blind hero, 1499 01:11:43,742 --> 01:11:45,708 and I thought it would be such fun 1500 01:11:45,744 --> 01:11:47,977 to let him be able to do anything 1501 01:11:48,013 --> 01:11:51,555 that a sighted person could do, but do it better. 1502 01:11:51,590 --> 01:11:56,160 And you could explain it by the fact that his other senses were super-heightened. 1503 01:11:56,195 --> 01:11:59,689 So, he could read by running his finger over any page, 1504 01:11:59,724 --> 01:12:01,958 he'd feel the ink on the page. 1505 01:12:01,993 --> 01:12:03,059 As incrementally as it's raised on the page. 1506 01:12:04,896 --> 01:12:06,796 Exactly. He could tell if you were lying 1507 01:12:06,831 --> 01:12:09,106 'cause he had a built-in lie detector. 1508 01:12:09,141 --> 01:12:12,735 He could hear your pulse, your heartbeat speeding up. 1509 01:12:12,771 --> 01:12:13,069 And all sorts of things like that. 1510 01:12:15,147 --> 01:12:18,282 The reason I mention Daredevil, I was very concerned. 1511 01:12:18,317 --> 01:12:23,379 I said to myself, "What if blind people are offended by this?" 1512 01:12:23,415 --> 01:12:27,842 Suddenly, we're taking a blind man and showing that he can do anything. 1513 01:12:27,877 --> 01:12:30,778 Some poor person who is blind is thinking, 1514 01:12:30,813 --> 01:12:32,346 "What's he doing, joking about this?" 1515 01:12:32,382 --> 01:12:33,714 Or, you know. 1516 01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:36,050 What happened was we got more mail 1517 01:12:38,196 --> 01:12:42,331 from places like the Lighthouse for the Blind in New York, 1518 01:12:42,367 --> 01:12:46,961 from blind people, all of them saying how great they thought it was 1519 01:12:46,996 --> 01:12:50,440 that we were featuring a blind person as a hero. 1520 01:12:50,475 --> 01:12:54,702 And that's one of the reasons that he's one of my favorite characters. 1521 01:12:54,737 --> 01:12:57,246 I felt so good when I heard that. 1522 01:12:57,282 --> 01:13:00,116 And that connects with people for some reason, um, Daredevil. 1523 01:13:00,151 --> 01:13:02,968 It's 'cause he's the unsung of the Marvel creations. 1524 01:13:03,004 --> 01:13:04,670 He's a character that does connect with people 1525 01:13:04,705 --> 01:13:06,739 because he's the blind superhero. 1526 01:13:06,774 --> 01:13:08,874 Howard Stern, whenever Howard Stern 1527 01:13:08,909 --> 01:13:10,576 talks about superheroes or comic books... 1528 01:13:10,611 --> 01:13:11,977 He's a huge Marvel fanboy. 1529 01:13:12,013 --> 01:13:14,221 On the radio, he always comes back to Daredevil, 1530 01:13:14,257 --> 01:13:17,491 and is always happy to point out how much he knows about him. 1531 01:13:17,527 --> 01:13:19,785 Particularly, he's like, "Oh, he's the blind lawyer. He's the blind lawyer." 1532 01:13:19,820 --> 01:13:20,052 You know, it's a big bragging point. 1533 01:13:21,789 --> 01:13:22,755 And I liked him being a lawyer, too. 1534 01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:23,055 It made him easy to get into stories. 1535 01:13:24,333 --> 01:13:26,558 One of the only times that a lawyer has ever been painted heroic. 1536 01:13:26,594 --> 01:13:28,060 (LAUGHING) That's right. 1537 01:13:29,730 --> 01:13:31,105 Even the name Matt Murdock, I... 1538 01:13:31,140 --> 01:13:33,332 You can tell I have the worst memory in the world. 1539 01:13:33,367 --> 01:13:34,208 Yeah, right. 1540 01:13:34,243 --> 01:13:37,211 And I had trouble remembering the names of the characters. 1541 01:13:37,246 --> 01:13:41,840 So, that's the reason that they usually had the first name 1542 01:13:41,876 --> 01:13:44,668 had the same letter as the last letter. 1543 01:13:44,703 --> 01:13:47,079 Very alliterative names, yeah. 1544 01:13:47,114 --> 01:13:49,740 Matt Murdock, Reed Richards, Peter Parker, on and on. 1545 01:13:49,775 --> 01:13:51,775 Because if I could remember one name, 1546 01:13:51,810 --> 01:13:54,845 I had a clue how the other name began. 1547 01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:56,646 And that was the only reason I did that. 1548 01:13:56,682 --> 01:13:59,616 In terms of the comic stories, 1549 01:13:59,651 --> 01:14:01,818 when I was working at Marvel, 1550 01:14:01,854 --> 01:14:03,653 when I did the Daredevil run that I did, 1551 01:14:03,689 --> 01:14:05,722 Joe Quesada, who was the Editor 1552 01:14:05,758 --> 01:14:07,024 of the Marvel Knights line then, 1553 01:14:07,101 --> 01:14:09,593 and is now the Editor over all of Marvel right now. 1554 01:14:09,628 --> 01:14:10,060 Yeah, and doing a great job. 1555 01:14:11,563 --> 01:14:12,796 Doing a very great job. 1556 01:14:12,831 --> 01:14:14,831 He took a huge page out of your book, 1557 01:14:14,867 --> 01:14:17,067 and instructed me in writing each issue 1558 01:14:19,038 --> 01:14:21,838 to somehow recap what went on in the last issue, 1559 01:14:21,874 --> 01:14:25,142 and recap overall who the character is. 1560 01:14:25,177 --> 01:14:27,110 And I said, "Well, that's a little redundant, isn't it? 1561 01:14:27,146 --> 01:14:29,939 "Because the people reading these comics, they know." 1562 01:14:29,974 --> 01:14:33,083 And he said, "But it's like Stan said for years. 1563 01:14:33,118 --> 01:14:36,912 "Every comic book is somebody's first comic book." 1564 01:14:36,948 --> 01:14:38,814 And it's true. It's a really important lesson 1565 01:14:38,850 --> 01:14:40,049 that they still kind of stick to today. 1566 01:14:42,094 --> 01:14:45,621 It's so important because you can't grow a line 1567 01:14:45,656 --> 01:14:47,790 unless you get new readers. 1568 01:14:47,825 --> 01:14:49,692 And you wanna get the transient reader 1569 01:14:49,727 --> 01:14:52,669 who hasn't read the book before. 1570 01:14:52,704 --> 01:14:57,033 And one of the complaints that have been made about comics over the past few years, 1571 01:14:57,109 --> 01:14:58,801 unless you've been following the stories for years, 1572 01:14:58,836 --> 01:15:00,970 you don't know what you're looking at. 1573 01:15:01,005 --> 01:15:05,148 So, it's a great idea, and you can do it subtly. 1574 01:15:05,184 --> 01:15:09,111 It doesn't have to be done in a dull, long, pedantic way. 1575 01:15:09,147 --> 01:15:10,804 You can just in the course of the beginning of the story 1576 01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:14,150 have the characters make a few comments 1577 01:15:14,185 --> 01:15:15,609 that brings the reader up to date. That's important. 1578 01:15:15,644 --> 01:15:17,678 It's a cliffhanger medium. 1579 01:15:17,713 --> 01:15:20,122 It's a serial, so every month... 1580 01:15:20,158 --> 01:15:21,582 Incidentally, I got to mention what a great job you did 1581 01:15:21,617 --> 01:15:23,717 on those Daredevil stories. 1582 01:15:23,753 --> 01:15:25,261 And I'm glad you're still doing it. 1583 01:15:25,296 --> 01:15:27,654 We're not here to polish my helmet. We're here to polish yours. 1584 01:15:27,690 --> 01:15:28,989 No, no, but I gotta tell you, 1585 01:15:29,025 --> 01:15:32,693 I mentioned before, this is so frustrating to me, 1586 01:15:32,728 --> 01:15:35,662 'cause I am such a fan of yours, 1587 01:15:35,698 --> 01:15:38,407 and I'm doing all the talking, 1588 01:15:38,443 --> 01:15:41,835 and you gotta promise that we can do another one where I interview you. 1589 01:15:41,871 --> 01:15:43,070 If I'm ever worthy of it, we'll do it. 1590 01:15:49,345 --> 01:15:52,871 Your relationship with Jack is the stuff of legend in this field. 1591 01:15:52,906 --> 01:15:53,939 Do you want to talk about him a little bit? 1592 01:15:53,974 --> 01:15:56,708 Well, Jack was the greatest guy to work with. 1593 01:15:56,744 --> 01:15:58,777 He never did less than his best. 1594 01:15:58,812 --> 01:15:59,978 You would never get a job from Jack 1595 01:16:00,014 --> 01:16:01,680 where you'd say, "Oh, gee, this isn't that good." 1596 01:16:01,715 --> 01:16:04,750 Everything about him was great. 1597 01:16:04,785 --> 01:16:07,919 Towards the end, the last few years, 1598 01:16:07,955 --> 01:16:10,055 something happened. I'm not sure what it was. 1599 01:16:11,892 --> 01:16:14,926 One of the things was they had a policy 1600 01:16:14,962 --> 01:16:17,337 to give original artwork back to the artists. 1601 01:16:17,373 --> 01:16:21,241 Now, I was out of it by now. I was the publisher, and I was traveling. 1602 01:16:21,277 --> 01:16:25,670 But for some reason, Jack felt he didn't get his artwork back, 1603 01:16:25,706 --> 01:16:26,905 and he got mad at the company. 1604 01:16:26,940 --> 01:16:29,900 People in the company told me the reason... 1605 01:16:29,936 --> 01:16:33,378 Again, this is all hearsay. Told me the reason 1606 01:16:33,414 --> 01:16:36,874 he didn't get the artwork back was they just wanted him to sign a form 1607 01:16:36,909 --> 01:16:39,977 saying he would never use it to republish it 1608 01:16:40,013 --> 01:16:42,880 and compete with Marvel, or something of this sort. 1609 01:16:42,915 --> 01:16:44,915 And they told me Jack wouldn't sign the form, 1610 01:16:44,951 --> 01:16:48,052 and for that reason, they were at loggerheads. 1611 01:16:50,264 --> 01:16:53,365 Eventually, I think, they worked it out after a long time. 1612 01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,660 But during that period, the fans learned about what was happening, 1613 01:16:56,696 --> 01:16:57,061 and the fans got mad at Marvel, 1614 01:16:58,831 --> 01:17:00,831 thinking we're not treating Jack well. 1615 01:17:00,867 --> 01:17:02,066 And I think somehow it rubbed off on me. 1616 01:17:04,211 --> 01:17:06,111 I think Jack may have felt in some way I was responsible. 1617 01:17:07,740 --> 01:17:09,707 Or had something to do with it. 1618 01:17:09,742 --> 01:17:11,175 Hell, as far as I was concerned, 1619 01:17:11,210 --> 01:17:14,245 he could have had everything back. It didn't matter to me. 1620 01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:18,674 I had asked Jack to come on staff and stop being a freelancer, 1621 01:17:18,709 --> 01:17:21,085 and I had said, "You know, Jack, 1622 01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,013 "I would be happy to let you be the Art Director." 1623 01:17:24,090 --> 01:17:27,883 "I'll just be the Editor. What a team we would make. 1624 01:17:27,918 --> 01:17:29,518 "The two of us, we'll run the whole thing." 1625 01:17:29,553 --> 01:17:31,420 He didn't want to do it. 1626 01:17:31,455 --> 01:17:33,497 Why do you think? 1627 01:17:33,533 --> 01:17:35,657 SMITH: He just didn't want to commit the time, just liked being freelance? 1628 01:17:35,693 --> 01:17:36,058 Your guess is as good as mine. 1629 01:17:37,928 --> 01:17:40,237 Maybe he just enjoyed doing his own strips. 1630 01:17:40,273 --> 01:17:43,899 But there isn't a bad thing that I can say about that man. 1631 01:17:43,934 --> 01:17:46,769 He was a joy to work with. He was a genius. 1632 01:17:46,804 --> 01:17:48,871 He should've been a movie director, 1633 01:17:48,906 --> 01:17:50,539 because this man knew how to tell a story. 1634 01:17:50,574 --> 01:17:52,599 SMITH: Very visual, yes. 1635 01:17:52,634 --> 01:17:54,901 In fact, most of the guys did. 1636 01:17:54,937 --> 01:17:57,838 Steve did, Romita did, Buscema did, Colan did. 1637 01:17:57,873 --> 01:18:02,151 I mean, I can't believe how lucky I was 1638 01:18:02,186 --> 01:18:04,711 to work with people like that, because it's very possible 1639 01:18:04,747 --> 01:18:09,291 that these great ideas that I had 1640 01:18:09,326 --> 01:18:11,218 might not have been as successful if they weren't drawn as well. 1641 01:18:11,253 --> 01:18:12,686 Right. 1642 01:18:12,721 --> 01:18:15,055 So, I'm grateful to all of them. 1643 01:18:22,106 --> 01:18:23,997 While you were doing what you were doing at Marvel, 1644 01:18:24,033 --> 01:18:25,565 DC is doing what they're doing across the street. 1645 01:18:25,601 --> 01:18:27,067 And for years, I think, 1646 01:18:29,313 --> 01:18:31,605 the fan base enjoyed the fact that there was a friendly rivalry 1647 01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,007 which you guys juiced up 1648 01:18:34,043 --> 01:18:35,834 for entertainment value as much as possible. 1649 01:18:35,869 --> 01:18:38,937 But there was no true rivalry at all. 1650 01:18:38,972 --> 01:18:41,114 I mean, in fact, as you pointed out earlier, 1651 01:18:41,150 --> 01:18:45,877 DC whatever they were doing over at National at the time, 1652 01:18:45,912 --> 01:18:47,879 Martin would say, "Let's do that over here." 1653 01:18:47,914 --> 01:18:49,047 I mean, it's a very symbiotic relationship. 1654 01:18:50,684 --> 01:18:52,159 Actually, we were all friends. 1655 01:18:52,194 --> 01:18:56,096 I was friends with most of the writers and artists at DC. 1656 01:18:57,758 --> 01:18:59,433 At that time, there was an editor, 1657 01:18:59,468 --> 01:19:03,895 I think he was the Publisher or the President, named Carmine Infantino. 1658 01:19:03,930 --> 01:19:05,730 Carmine and I would meet about once a week. 1659 01:19:05,766 --> 01:19:08,733 There was a little bar and grill 1660 01:19:08,769 --> 01:19:11,278 on Third Avenue called Friar Tuck. 1661 01:19:11,313 --> 01:19:14,147 We'd meet there about once a week and just kid around and talk. 1662 01:19:14,183 --> 01:19:19,377 A lot of the artists from both companies would join us. 1663 01:19:19,413 --> 01:19:23,248 Again, because I'm always trying to think what'll appeal to the fans, 1664 01:19:23,283 --> 01:19:27,085 I thought it fun to build up a rivalry between the 2 companies. 1665 01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:29,947 The first thing I did was I started referring to them 1666 01:19:29,982 --> 01:19:33,017 instead of brand X, I called them "Brand Echh." 1667 01:19:33,093 --> 01:19:36,520 It was either echh or eh, I don't know, brand echh. 1668 01:19:36,555 --> 01:19:37,988 And echh meaning yech. 1669 01:19:38,024 --> 01:19:40,657 And the fans liked that. That went over pretty big. 1670 01:19:40,693 --> 01:19:42,693 One funny thing I must say, 1671 01:19:42,728 --> 01:19:44,061 when we started outselling them, 1672 01:19:45,531 --> 01:19:46,797 I had heard that they, 1673 01:19:46,832 --> 01:19:49,407 'cause I knew people at the company, 1674 01:19:49,443 --> 01:19:52,110 that they used to have meetings and wonder why is Marvel outselling us? 1675 01:19:53,873 --> 01:19:56,514 And some genius would get up and say, 1676 01:19:56,550 --> 01:20:00,077 "I think it's 'cause Stan uses a lot of dialogue balloons on the covers." 1677 01:20:01,705 --> 01:20:03,447 So, the minute I would hear that, 1678 01:20:03,482 --> 01:20:07,117 for the next few months, I'd take all the dialogue balloons off the covers. 1679 01:20:07,153 --> 01:20:10,012 Or they'd say, 'cause we use a lot of red on our covers. 1680 01:20:10,089 --> 01:20:11,646 So for the next few months, no red on the covers. 1681 01:20:11,682 --> 01:20:14,124 It must have driven 'em crazy. 1682 01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:18,854 And I never could understand why it didn't occur to them 1683 01:20:18,889 --> 01:20:21,857 that we were trying to talk to the readers 1684 01:20:21,892 --> 01:20:23,792 instead of just doing stories, you know? 1685 01:20:23,827 --> 01:20:26,537 And I think that was the main thing. 1686 01:20:26,572 --> 01:20:31,275 You involved the readers in a way that DC comics didn't particularly back then. 1687 01:20:31,310 --> 01:20:34,703 But things change. I mean, DC, now they're doing great stuff. 1688 01:20:34,738 --> 01:20:36,972 I even did some books for them. 1689 01:20:37,007 --> 01:20:38,482 SMITH: And you've done some stuff for DC as well. 1690 01:20:38,517 --> 01:20:41,634 LEE: And they're great guys. All the comics are getting so much better. 1691 01:20:41,670 --> 01:20:42,035 The books that you're writing, 1692 01:20:43,972 --> 01:20:47,582 the new Editor, Joe Quesada, he has managed to... 1693 01:20:47,618 --> 01:20:50,877 You know, like I mentioned, the most important thing is to have the right talent. 1694 01:20:50,912 --> 01:20:54,981 Joe Quesada has hired such terrific artists 1695 01:20:55,017 --> 01:20:58,018 and writers who had never been with Marvel before. 1696 01:20:58,095 --> 01:20:59,853 It's a real competition now between the companies, 1697 01:20:59,888 --> 01:21:02,389 and the only one who profits is the reader. 1698 01:21:02,424 --> 01:21:04,199 Yeah. Too true. 1699 01:21:04,234 --> 01:21:07,027 And there was a period in the '90s, where it was a very 1700 01:21:07,104 --> 01:21:10,372 art-driven medium, where artists were the stars. 1701 01:21:10,407 --> 01:21:12,799 And now I would imagine something that must kind of please you is 1702 01:21:12,834 --> 01:21:14,276 that it's come back to the writers. 1703 01:21:14,311 --> 01:21:16,111 Writers kind of drive the sales of comic books at this point 1704 01:21:18,382 --> 01:21:20,566 because people are more interested in the story than anything else. 1705 01:21:20,601 --> 01:21:22,142 Suddenly, for some reason. 1706 01:21:22,177 --> 01:21:25,904 You know, it's like anything else. It's a collaboration. 1707 01:21:25,940 --> 01:21:28,040 If you have great stories and weak artwork, 1708 01:21:30,011 --> 01:21:33,253 the stories don't seem that great and vice versa. 1709 01:21:33,288 --> 01:21:39,259 I sometimes think the artwork is still a little more important 1710 01:21:39,294 --> 01:21:42,095 because it's the artwork, I think, that makes you buy the book. 1711 01:21:43,691 --> 01:21:44,197 If you see the average reader, 1712 01:21:44,232 --> 01:21:47,067 he goes into a store, he thumbs through a lot of books, 1713 01:21:47,102 --> 01:21:50,763 something will catch his eye, and he'll buy that one. 1714 01:21:50,798 --> 01:21:53,832 Very rarely is it the story itself, 1715 01:21:53,868 --> 01:21:55,308 because he doesn't have time to read it. 1716 01:21:55,343 --> 01:22:00,472 But if the story doesn't live up to the artwork, you're nowhere. 1717 01:22:00,508 --> 01:22:02,599 I think it's 50-50. 1718 01:22:02,634 --> 01:22:05,144 Now, you came up in a time 1719 01:22:05,179 --> 01:22:06,370 where it was newsstand, the business was all newsstand. 1720 01:22:06,405 --> 01:22:09,114 So, then you saw 1721 01:22:09,150 --> 01:22:11,742 the evolution of the direct market. What was that like? 1722 01:22:11,777 --> 01:22:13,043 Watching suddenly comic book stores, 1723 01:22:15,122 --> 01:22:16,880 stores like this store, Hi De Ho in Santa Monica, 1724 01:22:16,915 --> 01:22:19,583 dedicated to selling comic books come about? 1725 01:22:19,618 --> 01:22:21,818 It was the greatest thing. 1726 01:22:21,854 --> 01:22:23,820 Well, it all started when we had fans. 1727 01:22:23,856 --> 01:22:26,656 All of a sudden with the Fantastic Four, 1728 01:22:26,692 --> 01:22:28,759 Hulk, Spider-man, Daredevil, 1729 01:22:28,794 --> 01:22:31,795 we started getting real fan letters. 1730 01:22:31,830 --> 01:22:34,206 And as I mentioned, we answered 'em, 1731 01:22:34,241 --> 01:22:38,902 and tried to encourage the fans, and that was a new thing. 1732 01:22:38,937 --> 01:22:40,737 And then everything seemed to happen at once. 1733 01:22:40,773 --> 01:22:44,416 Suddenly, fan conventions started. 1734 01:22:44,452 --> 01:22:49,671 Suddenly, stores like Hi De Ho opened up that specialized in comics. 1735 01:22:49,706 --> 01:22:53,008 Suddenly comics became a thing. 1736 01:22:53,085 --> 01:22:54,376 Like Star Trek, there were comic book conventions. 1737 01:22:54,411 --> 01:22:56,044 Its own medium. 1738 01:22:58,123 --> 01:22:59,614 And it's been growing ever since, that excitement. 1739 01:22:59,649 --> 01:23:04,194 Right now, Wizard in Chicago 1740 01:23:04,229 --> 01:23:07,097 and the San Diego Comic Convention. It's a very big thing. 1741 01:23:14,598 --> 01:23:16,731 The evolution of The X-Men 1742 01:23:16,767 --> 01:23:20,835 from what was a second-tier title 1743 01:23:20,871 --> 01:23:24,739 to probably Marvel's best-known property 1744 01:23:24,775 --> 01:23:26,033 after Spider-Man, at this point. 1745 01:23:27,636 --> 01:23:29,803 Now, you created the X-Men, 1746 01:23:29,839 --> 01:23:32,639 and then later on, people like Claremont, 1747 01:23:32,675 --> 01:23:34,149 Chris Claremont, defined them 1748 01:23:34,184 --> 01:23:35,976 and kind of turned them into like what people know today. 1749 01:23:36,012 --> 01:23:37,711 Len Wein came up with Wolverine, stuff like that. 1750 01:23:37,747 --> 01:23:38,912 Wolverine. Len Wein did that, yeah. 1751 01:23:38,948 --> 01:23:41,048 That to me, I would imagine, was kind of a... 1752 01:23:43,293 --> 01:23:47,328 A point of pride watching somebody take something that you did, 1753 01:23:47,364 --> 01:23:51,132 and spinning it and creating something a little more popular even. 1754 01:23:51,168 --> 01:23:54,995 I love the X-Men, and I love the way Kirby did them. 1755 01:23:55,031 --> 01:23:57,205 You know, the idea... I don't know if you remember 1756 01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:59,107 the first issue in the Danger Room, that was Jack's idea. 1757 01:24:00,903 --> 01:24:03,704 And what a great way of beginning a series, 1758 01:24:03,739 --> 01:24:05,180 to show them in the Danger Room. 1759 01:24:05,215 --> 01:24:08,767 We didn't mean for it to be a second-tier book at all. 1760 01:24:08,802 --> 01:24:10,035 And it did well the first few issues. 1761 01:24:11,514 --> 01:24:14,081 And, in fact, I don't know if I told you the story about the name, The X-Men. 1762 01:24:15,743 --> 01:24:17,217 I wanted to call it The Mutants. 1763 01:24:17,253 --> 01:24:20,645 Went to my publisher. He said you cannot call it The Mutants. 1764 01:24:20,681 --> 01:24:23,482 Nobody knows what a mutant is. 1765 01:24:23,517 --> 01:24:24,750 Okay, he was the boss. 1766 01:24:24,785 --> 01:24:27,061 So I realized they had extra power. 1767 01:24:27,096 --> 01:24:31,790 I was gonna call their leader Professor Xavier, "X." 1768 01:24:31,825 --> 01:24:32,057 So I figured I'll call them the X-Men. 1769 01:24:33,102 --> 01:24:35,369 So I said that to the publisher. He said that's fine. 1770 01:24:35,404 --> 01:24:39,106 And I thought to myself, "I'll never understand top-level thinking." 1771 01:24:40,868 --> 01:24:42,868 If nobody is gonna know what a mutant is, 1772 01:24:42,903 --> 01:24:45,904 how will anybody know what an X-Man is? 1773 01:24:45,939 --> 01:24:47,639 But I had a title, and I wasn't gonna, um... 1774 01:24:47,674 --> 01:24:48,573 Rock the boat at that point? 1775 01:24:48,609 --> 01:24:50,033 Yeah. I loved the series, 1776 01:24:51,837 --> 01:24:54,004 but after Jack and I did the first few, 1777 01:24:54,081 --> 01:24:57,707 I don't remember how many, 4, 5, 10, I don't know, 1778 01:24:57,743 --> 01:25:00,577 we both got busy with other things, 1779 01:25:00,612 --> 01:25:03,155 and I had to drop something, 1780 01:25:03,190 --> 01:25:06,916 and the reason I dropped the X-Men and Jack went off it, 1781 01:25:06,952 --> 01:25:09,719 not because we thought it was less of a strip, 1782 01:25:09,755 --> 01:25:11,688 but there were so many characters, 1783 01:25:11,723 --> 01:25:13,456 it took a little longer to write. 1784 01:25:13,492 --> 01:25:15,133 So I just gave it up 1785 01:25:15,169 --> 01:25:17,794 because it was the toughest one to do of all of them, 1786 01:25:17,829 --> 01:25:20,205 and then other people took it over. 1787 01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:23,500 In the beginning, the sales dropped when we left the book, 1788 01:25:23,535 --> 01:25:24,768 but then, as you said, 1789 01:25:24,803 --> 01:25:27,179 when Chris Claremont and John Byrne 1790 01:25:27,214 --> 01:25:30,840 and all the people who took it on later took it over... 1791 01:25:30,876 --> 01:25:33,634 Because basically it was a solid strip. 1792 01:25:33,670 --> 01:25:36,179 Sales started to really rise. 1793 01:25:36,214 --> 01:25:40,842 So, you are the father of mutants in the Marvel universe. 1794 01:25:40,877 --> 01:25:43,044 Yeah. And that was done out of laziness. 1795 01:25:44,948 --> 01:25:47,849 Again, as I mentioned, when you do superheroes, 1796 01:25:47,884 --> 01:25:50,018 you have to say how they get their power. 1797 01:25:50,095 --> 01:25:54,022 Well, I was bored with cosmic rays and gamma rays 1798 01:25:54,099 --> 01:25:56,924 and radioactivity, and I was running out of things, 1799 01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:59,694 and I figured, "What if they're just mutants?" 1800 01:25:59,729 --> 01:26:01,829 I don't have to explain anything. 1801 01:26:01,865 --> 01:26:03,965 We know there are mutants in the world. 1802 01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,110 There are mutant vegetables, mutant trees, frogs. 1803 01:26:07,145 --> 01:26:09,670 Okay, they're born mutants. That gets me off the hook. 1804 01:26:09,706 --> 01:26:11,906 I can then do whatever I want. 1805 01:26:11,941 --> 01:26:14,142 So, it was done... Really, it was a cop-out. 1806 01:26:14,177 --> 01:26:16,603 It's so funny and it gives birth to years of continuity 1807 01:26:16,638 --> 01:26:18,505 and legend and mythos and... 1808 01:26:18,540 --> 01:26:20,181 But look how easy it is. 1809 01:26:20,216 --> 01:26:22,216 This comes from a guy who's just, like, "I don't know. 1810 01:26:23,812 --> 01:26:24,361 "The guy could have red coming out of his eyes, who knows?" 1811 01:26:24,362 --> 01:26:24,911 That's right, but look how easy it is. 1812 01:26:24,947 --> 01:26:26,780 You want somebody who can walk through walls? 1813 01:26:26,815 --> 01:26:28,215 He was born that way. He's a mutant. 1814 01:26:28,250 --> 01:26:29,049 Nice. 1815 01:26:36,099 --> 01:26:37,724 I guess a Fantastic Four movie now in the works, 1816 01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:40,627 like, a big budget, huge effort. 1817 01:26:40,662 --> 01:26:43,171 Kinda like the X-Men as well. 1818 01:26:43,206 --> 01:26:45,106 It'll be a big one, and the same with the Silver Surfer. 1819 01:26:45,141 --> 01:26:45,298 As I understand, he's one of your favorite creations. 1820 01:26:45,334 --> 01:26:47,768 Oh, yeah. 1821 01:26:47,803 --> 01:26:49,803 Well, you can tell by talking to me. 1822 01:26:49,838 --> 01:26:52,305 I'm very deep and very philosophical. 1823 01:26:52,341 --> 01:26:54,466 Yes, yes. 1824 01:26:54,501 --> 01:26:55,108 But the Silver Surfer 1825 01:26:55,144 --> 01:26:59,604 allowed me to get a lot of my corny, philosophical points 1826 01:26:59,639 --> 01:27:01,906 across through his dialogue. 1827 01:27:01,942 --> 01:27:04,876 I always could have him saying things like... 1828 01:27:04,911 --> 01:27:05,118 Now you remember, he's from another planet, 1829 01:27:05,154 --> 01:27:09,814 and he comes along and soars over earth, looking down, 1830 01:27:09,850 --> 01:27:12,884 and, "What's wrong with these earthlings? 1831 01:27:12,919 --> 01:27:15,920 "They have a planet that should be paradise. 1832 01:27:15,956 --> 01:27:17,197 "It's the Garden of Eden. It has everything. 1833 01:27:17,232 --> 01:27:22,794 "Clean air, good food, oceans, land, whatever you could want. 1834 01:27:22,829 --> 01:27:25,764 "And yet they fight and have crimes. 1835 01:27:25,799 --> 01:27:27,065 "They hate each other, and they... 1836 01:27:28,735 --> 01:27:29,701 "What's wrong? Are they insane?" 1837 01:27:29,736 --> 01:27:31,803 All the things that I think about 1838 01:27:31,838 --> 01:27:33,872 and, I think, most people think about. 1839 01:27:33,907 --> 01:27:37,208 I was able to let him voice those things. 1840 01:27:37,244 --> 01:27:39,902 And there's another thing. Because he's from another planet, 1841 01:27:39,938 --> 01:27:42,805 I was able to write his dialogue differently. 1842 01:27:42,841 --> 01:27:45,008 His English wasn't... It was perfect, 1843 01:27:45,085 --> 01:27:47,710 but it wasn't perfect the way you or I would speak. 1844 01:27:47,746 --> 01:27:50,088 And I loved that about Doctor Doom. 1845 01:27:50,123 --> 01:27:53,916 I had him speaking in a more highfalutin kind of way. 1846 01:27:53,952 --> 01:27:56,094 And I love writing different kind of dialogue. 1847 01:27:56,129 --> 01:27:59,689 Like with Thor, I tried to combine him with the Bible 1848 01:27:59,724 --> 01:28:01,791 and Shakespeare when he talked. 1849 01:28:01,826 --> 01:28:05,236 And Dr. Strange with his incantations. 1850 01:28:05,272 --> 01:28:09,832 To me, dialogue is so interesting and so much fun to write. 1851 01:28:09,868 --> 01:28:12,735 Iron Man was a character who, later on, 1852 01:28:12,771 --> 01:28:14,804 in comics, had a drinking problem. 1853 01:28:14,839 --> 01:28:16,839 We made him a drunkard, an alcoholic. 1854 01:28:16,875 --> 01:28:18,767 We thought that was a good thing to do. 1855 01:28:18,802 --> 01:28:20,035 And, um, I didn't write those stories, 1856 01:28:22,247 --> 01:28:24,673 but I loved the fact that we did it, and I was all for it. 1857 01:28:24,708 --> 01:28:25,607 And it was done very well, too. 1858 01:28:25,642 --> 01:28:26,274 But you created Iron Man? 1859 01:28:26,310 --> 01:28:27,542 Oh, yeah. 1860 01:28:27,578 --> 01:28:29,678 Where's that come from? 1861 01:28:29,713 --> 01:28:31,346 Being a little bit of a rebel. 1862 01:28:31,382 --> 01:28:34,323 In those days, 1863 01:28:34,359 --> 01:28:39,462 young people were very much against war, against the establishment, 1864 01:28:39,497 --> 01:28:44,167 so I said, just for fun, I'm gonna get a character who's a multimillionaire 1865 01:28:44,202 --> 01:28:47,863 and who manufactures war material, you know, armaments, 1866 01:28:47,898 --> 01:28:51,033 and I'm gonna make him likeable somehow. 1867 01:28:51,109 --> 01:28:54,536 And I kind of based him on Howard Hughes, in a way. 1868 01:28:54,571 --> 01:28:57,146 Came up with Tony Stark. 1869 01:28:57,182 --> 01:28:59,966 Now, again, in order to make the character empathetic... 1870 01:29:00,002 --> 01:29:03,478 And they all have to have a weakness of some sort. 1871 01:29:03,514 --> 01:29:06,873 I gave him a weak heart. He never knows when his heart'll conk out on him, 1872 01:29:06,908 --> 01:29:10,452 so he's afraid to have a serious relationship 1873 01:29:10,487 --> 01:29:13,713 with a girl, which made it easy to write stories with different girls. 1874 01:29:13,749 --> 01:29:15,982 Would have made a great TV series. 1875 01:29:16,018 --> 01:29:17,817 There could be a different girl in every episode. 1876 01:29:17,853 --> 01:29:20,754 So, um, and then he had his iron armor. 1877 01:29:20,789 --> 01:29:23,923 Now, because he was so rich, I had... 1878 01:29:23,959 --> 01:29:26,693 And again, in trying to make all our characters 1879 01:29:26,728 --> 01:29:29,404 somehow come together, mingle, 1880 01:29:29,440 --> 01:29:33,500 when we had the Avengers, I had them use his mansion on fifth Avenue 1881 01:29:33,535 --> 01:29:35,435 as their headquarters. 1882 01:29:35,470 --> 01:29:36,069 I like Tony Stark. 1883 01:29:37,739 --> 01:29:38,071 He was one of the few characters, 1884 01:29:40,384 --> 01:29:42,734 his name didn't begin with the same first letter and last letter. 1885 01:29:42,769 --> 01:29:44,569 And I don't know how I blew it there. 1886 01:29:44,604 --> 01:29:46,379 I must have been careless. 1887 01:29:46,415 --> 01:29:49,340 But a character whose name did begin with first letter and last letter, 1888 01:29:49,376 --> 01:29:51,051 Bruce Banner. 1889 01:29:51,086 --> 01:29:55,613 Now, during the run of the very successful TV show, 1890 01:29:55,648 --> 01:29:58,916 during the mid-to-late '70s, 1891 01:29:58,952 --> 01:30:00,952 they called him David Banner on the show, 1892 01:30:00,987 --> 01:30:03,721 as opposed to Bruce Banner in the comics. Why? 1893 01:30:03,757 --> 01:30:05,456 I hate to say it. It's so stupid. 1894 01:30:05,492 --> 01:30:07,392 It's a great story. 1895 01:30:07,427 --> 01:30:09,861 It is so stupid! 1896 01:30:09,896 --> 01:30:12,563 And it's also perfect network thinking. 1897 01:30:12,599 --> 01:30:14,065 His name was Bruce Banner. 1898 01:30:15,835 --> 01:30:17,143 And when they start doing the show, 1899 01:30:17,179 --> 01:30:20,038 I see in the script they have him called David Banner. 1900 01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:22,515 So, I called whoever it is you call at the network, 1901 01:30:22,551 --> 01:30:25,568 and I said, "Hey, you guys, there's a typo there. You wrote the wrong name." 1902 01:30:25,603 --> 01:30:28,179 "No, no. It's intentional." 1903 01:30:28,214 --> 01:30:30,081 "Well, why did you change his name from Bruce to David?" 1904 01:30:31,809 --> 01:30:33,042 "Well, Bruce sounds too homosexual." 1905 01:30:34,512 --> 01:30:35,678 I mean, there you go. 1906 01:30:35,713 --> 01:30:38,047 The Hulk was gay, essentially. 1907 01:30:39,350 --> 01:30:40,783 Astounding. 1908 01:30:40,818 --> 01:30:42,651 So, there's no pull to just be like, 1909 01:30:42,687 --> 01:30:43,052 "Look, call him what he was." 1910 01:30:45,231 --> 01:30:50,760 Well, what we did... I had them, as a sop to my feelings, 1911 01:30:50,795 --> 01:30:52,962 they called him David Bruce Banner, 1912 01:30:52,997 --> 01:30:55,664 but they referred to him as David all the time. 1913 01:30:55,700 --> 01:30:57,733 But Bruce was his middle name. 1914 01:30:57,769 --> 01:30:59,110 And now they're going to turn that 1915 01:30:59,145 --> 01:31:01,871 into a big-screen franchise as well, with Ang Lee. 1916 01:31:01,906 --> 01:31:05,441 That'll be wonderful. With Ang Lee. Yeah. 1917 01:31:05,476 --> 01:31:07,802 SMITH: And now, it's also... You're talking about when they did the show, 1918 01:31:07,838 --> 01:31:10,179 they threw the makeup on Lou Ferrigno, 1919 01:31:10,214 --> 01:31:13,608 and now they can create the Hulk as he should be realized, 1920 01:31:13,643 --> 01:31:16,978 as a huge monster, with CG. 1921 01:31:17,014 --> 01:31:19,121 I mean, it's got to be great for you to sit back 1922 01:31:19,157 --> 01:31:20,782 and watch movies now where they can actually realize 1923 01:31:20,817 --> 01:31:23,485 all the things you created so long ago. 1924 01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:24,919 Visually realize them. 1925 01:31:24,955 --> 01:31:26,788 It's a funny thing, though. When I watch them, 1926 01:31:26,823 --> 01:31:28,957 I forget that I was involved in them. 1927 01:31:28,992 --> 01:31:30,825 I just watch them and enjoy them, you know? 1928 01:31:30,861 --> 01:31:32,761 "Wow, it's clever the way they did that! 1929 01:31:32,796 --> 01:31:34,696 "Wow, that's terrific!" You know? 1930 01:31:34,731 --> 01:31:35,830 I'm just one of the fans, really. 1931 01:31:35,866 --> 01:31:37,365 But, as I told you, I'm a big fan of me. 1932 01:31:37,401 --> 01:32:55,435 Yeah, exactly. 156348

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.