Original subtitles

a band beyond the power of all geekdom.

Red Cross,

just the two of them, the energy is just

overwhelming. I mean, it's it's really

very special. There's a very special

thing like an aura around them.

The Jeff and Steve dynamic is a very

entertaining and infuriating and

sweet and

insane

[music]

in the exorcist. Baby, you were really

insane.

You got [music] busted. You got it. You

got

your boy

and that ain't [music] all

got the baby in a [music] shower song.

[music]

[music]

[music]

Red Cross to me will always be one of

the most important bands, not just in

America, but like in the last 30, 40

years.

They were just inherently cool. They

were cool because they didn't care about

being cool.

[screaming]

I always thought that they should kind

of rule the world.

[music]

They're the ones that survived

everything and they're still here.

Does anybody call it the Harbor Freeway

anymore, Jeff?

I think when you get when you get more

south, it becomes the Harbor Freeway. So

the 110 South, it was always known to us

as the Harbor Freeway.

Yeah, because it spills out on the

harbor. Los Angeles Harbor Fre.

Yeah, I understand why, but no one says

it.

We grew up in Hawthorne, California.

Like the Beach Boys kind of Hawthorne,

like kind of like the utopian Hawthorne.

[music]

[singing]

What's up, Hawthorne? We're here at Best

Buy to check out the new album by the

Beach Boys. They have a new album called

Hawthorne, California. The birthplace of

a musical legacy.

That was our cross to bear was the Beach

Boys thing. It runs deep in Hawthorne.

You can't find a baby boomer Hawthorne

person that won't mention Brian Wilson.

It takes 10 seconds and they'll do it.

There's only recent years I've come up

with the phrase that Hawthorne is the

Liverpool of the Pacific.

Yeah. Our house is right down the road

from the further most southern runway of

LAX.

You we used to go to the airport and

Paige Alice Cooper Fon. Yeah. So I don't

know. I know it's very strange the idea

of airport kids, but we were airport

kids.

Yeah. Airport rabbs. Nobody is normal in

Hawthorne. We inhaled too much like jet

fuel exhaust or something.

Well, we're at the near the exact side

where we grew up at on 5259 West 115th

Street, Los Angeles 90045.

It's now currently under the pylon there

at the 105. Where Steven Jeff lived was

where the 105 eventually went. And

sometime around 198081,

the state started giving eminent domain

notices and telling people that it was

time to make plans for a new place. It's

amazing how many houses have been taken

down for those freeways. Our

neighborhood is gone. [music]

[music]

flag on the couch.

[music]

The city would buy the houses and they'd

either immediately tear them down or

they would just vacate them. So, the

neighborhood was just littered with

either vacant houses or lots and nobody

did anything with them other than

vandalize them for about 8 years.

[music]

[music]

And I remember busting into a vacant

house one day on the way home from

school. We found all these platform

shoes, all these like bikini girls

clothes, all these candles burned down,

empty wine bottles, and littered with

empty airplane glue.

Airplane glue.

So these are like Ramon style hookers.

It was not the squeaky clean Hawthorne

of the 50s and 60s. is a very dangerous

place in the 1980s.

Those are like our Tom Sawyer type

adventures.

The American dream was over in

Hawthorne.

This is upside down. This is a Steve's

birthday party. Steve grew up a little

faster because he had Jeff. Jeff would

make Steve climb out of his bed before

he should have been climbing out.

I think Jeff liked having a brother

because he could uh I don't say control

him, but he could teach him things.

Um let me see.

Um

my sister lived with my mom. She had a

record player and uh Jeff would break a

needle. I think every time every time we

went up that'll be the end of the music

for the day until the next time we went

up there.

Back in the USSR baby. It's my original

wide album from when I was a little kid.

Well, our original

this the girl who was like my rock and

roll friend. We would always pull our

money and buy albums together.

I would pull my money

anything that that was cool. Yeah. And

um she came out with the runways. I'd

never even heard of them. [music]

Seeing these girls, they were like the

seniors that ditch school, hang out at

the beach. But it was more than that.

was like, "Oh my god, okay, they're 16.

I'm 12." And it's like, "I can play in a

band."

And then the Ramones come and that's

like the second coming of the Beatles

for me. You not my baby. [music]

I'm good with you.

[music]

My baby. So then Jeff got a job at a

fish and chip shop and he saved the

money to buy a copy stratacastaster. And

then we hatched the plan that I would

join the school orchestra. I would learn

how to play a few songs on the standup

bass that they had at school and then we

would use that to leverage um a campaign

to get our our parents to buy me an

electric bass.

Jeffrey kept trying to talk us into

buying him a bass and I kept thinking,

you know, it's a waste of money, a waste

of time, this and that. I asked, I said,

well, play something for us. And he

said, well, I said, just show me you can

play something.

Yeah. Anyways, I learned how to play

King of the Road.

Surprised the hell out of me. So I said,

well, you know, I thought then, well,

okay. So that's how he got his first

bass. [music]

Whatever society values, punk is

against. Whatever society of [ __ ]

punk is for. We saw punk rock is often

being met with confusion.

This is a religion that you are dealing

[music] with here.

A religion, a cult

or in some instances, you know, like

violence.

Violence.

Life was not easy for Steve with the

purple patch in his hair.

I got beat up in seventh grade by like

the whole PE class, you know, for being

in a little bit different.

Yeah. Right behind me in that building

there, the two-story building, there was

a photography um studio where Red Cross

was actually born.

Greg Hudson was the first viable

guitarist to Red Cross.

We had Photoshop together and he had a

peachy folder with like a bags flyer on

it and I came up to him. I go, "Hey, do

you like punk rock?" And he kind of

looked at me. I was like, "Oh, is this

guy going to give me shit?" I'm like,

"So do I." And it's like,

"Cool." And then we started talking

about, "Yeah, I play guitar. I play

guitar." So the thing was, "Yeah, I'm

putting a band together with my brother.

He's 11 years old. It's really cool."

And he's like, "What?

[music]

[music]

This house is not the house we grew up

in."

Our house was carted off, too. Like we

heard like the the Watts area,

but So this is a a fine example of the

kind of garage that we would have been

rehearsing in. And what did you think of

that music you were hearing coming out

of the garage?

A little scary.

[music]

I remember being in the basement and we

came up with that name and it was just

like the only one that everyone just

kind of said, "Okay."

And I think someone actually cut

themselves and needed a band-aid and we

were like looking around what Red Cross

band-aid and someone said Red Cross.

Whoa. the bandaid,

but there was no place to play and there

was no way. They would never book us in

Hollywood. We were little kids and

but we would try. We would find people's

phone numbers in the uh by calling

information

page. I mean looking in the phone book.

[music]

ex were very rude because I wanted to

put together a show in a Mexican

restaurant. And I pick up, [laughter]

oh, we can put on a show. Maybe they get

these bands and I called them. They

laughed at me.

I'm about to have a nervous breakdown.

We heard that Black Flag lived in the

neighborhood and we saw the nervous

breakdown single said PO Box One

Lawndale. Yeah.

And we would go down to the post office

in Lndale and stock it like we were

going to see the band.

What does black fly mean? Where's black

fly?

um it means anarchy.

So then I called Greg again and I said,

"Yeah, we have a band. We're like kids,

you know, always me out." He'd always

say, "Yeah, our bass player is 11."

Yeah. I was very into like finding any

kind of image thing and going for it.

Little Stevie, who was what, 11 or 12?

11,

you know, at the time.

And we had heard about them.

Unreal. [laughter]

Friends of ours had told us this band is

really good and the kids 11.

Yeah. We were like, "What? 11?"

We just said, "We want to play anytime

you guys do a show." And at about that

time is I was working on that girl to

let us play at her 8th grade graduation

party.

I just wondering if you if you have

knowledge.

Yeah. You hosted an early important show

and South Bay rock history.

Yeah. Here in your house. This is Lisa

Stangle.

She was going to have a party in her

Hawthorne house. So, we offered

ourselves up to play this graduation

party and then we also invited our new

friends

so we could get we can get another band.

That's the living room where they played

in.

I've had enough.

[music]

The opening band comes out and it was,

you know, kids our age and like one

really little kid like holy [ __ ] you

know, is um pretty big revelation like

there's other kids out there. The kids

just hated them like well we're we're

going to see you on Monday and we're

going to just we're going to flush your

head in the toilet and we're going to

roll you down a hill. I mean, all the

high schools apparently were here at

this house. [laughter]

It's like Woodstock.

The local teens that were older, the

stoner kids showed up standing right in

our face expecting us to play Led

Zeppelin and I would say, "Yes, this

next number is a unreleased Black

Sabbath song." And yeah, they'd go crazy

and then like we'd start playing one of

our tunes and it would be like, "You

suck. You suck."

We did get booed at that show.

I mean, but it made us tough.

And then Black Flag plays. We set up all

of the gear in the living room.

At this time, Black Flag when they

played, they just had like stacks of

battered, super loud gear. Played really

loud.

And the the kids were just like like a

rocket just blasted off and it was all

this stuff in their faces and they

couldn't understand or believe or what

are we what are we listening to? What

are we watching? They're adults, too.

Yeah. They're in their 20s and they're

just, you know, like Jeff said,

smelly dirty.

They're they're living in borderline

squads. They have mushrooms coming out

of the rug. And so, you can imagine what

they're like.

The only thing I remember is some girls

were in my kitchen eating a can of

sardines

or

Yes, it were girlfriends of I didn't

know which band.

Black Flag.

Okay.

The next thing that happened was that

Black Flag then started booking some

proper shows in Hollywood and they

invited us to come play. The first two

shows for us were going to be at the

Hong Kong Cafe in Chinatown and

unfortunately fell at the same time that

our drummer Johnny Cookbook John Stilo

was on family vacation. So, um, we were

not going to let that stop us.

I didn't know how to play drums. But

back then the Knack had came out and

they had my Shirona

my Shirona [music]

and all the punks hated the Knack and I

picked up that was the first beat that I

ever learned how to play.

[music]

It sounded like a couple 12-year-old

kids screaming over my Shirona beat.

They were the new hot thing. They had

this very young player in the band.

Steven,

even if he was 12 or 14, he looked like

he was nine. But I mean, he looked

young. Like voice hadn't changed. He was

kind of squeak when he sang with Jeff.

So

we called him Jimmy Osman. Like

Well, that No, Jeff did that. I used to

really get under my skin. Jimmy Osman.

Jimmy Osman. Jimmy Osman. We get off the

stage and um David Bowie is in the

audience.

Everybody that was there that night

remembers this because um the people

that were a part of the early LA punk

rock scene where most of them were

glitter fanatics, particularly Bowie

fanatics. We found out that David Bowie

was in the audience and he was sitting

right there.

Everybody hovered around Bowie after at

some point.

So David Bowie went to our first

nightclub performance.

I think it only took that one time

before I made a pitch to record them.

We got signed.

Signed.

We got signed. And before you knew it,

we were recording our first EP. We're

really like Hollywood Studio.

[music]

[music]

[music]

Writing songs like Annette's Got the

Hits. I mean, that was tailor made for

Rodney Bingenheimer. These are like very

inspired by beach movies from the 60s.

We watch beach movies after school, but

we just thought we liked it. It was

weird and campy. But then we hear Rodney

Binghammer talking about how cool

Annette Funachello was. And it was an

early crush for him.

Okay, I guess we're going to play

Annette's Got the Heads. I think we got

a little intro for it just for Red

Cross. And here's Annette Funichello,

the star of Back to the Beach.

Hi, this is Annette Funichello. And

here's one of my favorite bands, Red

Cross.

And Rodney was making those connections

for us. He was finding the connection

between beach movies and then this new

band, the Ramones.

Having your sons on the radio

pretty good.

Oh, that's I mean it's kind of lazy in a

way, but it's so potent.

Annette's Got the Hits is one of my

favorite alltime forever songs. I heard

my influences. I heard my city. I heard

Being an Outsider within Outsiders.

Well, we're in front of the old church

where where Black Flag, Red Cross,

Descendants, the Last all started.

There's not even a trace of the original

building here, but we used to hang out

here and drink beer.

[music]

This is This is a two room apartment

here, right here. This is a three room.

It's not It's not exactly what you would

call a penthouse or anything like that,

but this is my

This is where all the action goes on,

right?

Yeah. I can't exactly remember the night

particular moment when we met D. Well,

De was an older woman who who hung out

with us. She would come down to the

South Bay, like it was really hard to

get a ride to shows and and so she would

come down to the South Bay to pick us

up.

She had really good taste of music.

She had great taste in music and it

turned me on to a lot of stuff. Um,

first term I ever heard Velvet

Underground was from her.

[music]

That relationship eventually became a

romantic relationship. It was an odd

pairing because I was 12 and she at the

time I think I was told she was 21, but

it turned out she was actually like 24

or something. There was always some

story was basically some guy I was

stealing her from, but it kept being

alluded to to to Darby Crash who was

like my hero.

Yeah, Steve. And like I said, he really

brought out the cougar in the ladies.

They just could not resist him.

[music and singing]

the things she does to please.

[music]

It was actually very common in our scene

um for people to be dating somebody who

is you know 13 to 15.

None of us were anybody's babysitter. I

mean, you know, I mean, really stuff was

going on, you know,

and D and I would kind of go off on our

own doing a lot of early experimenting

with drinking or taking acid and things

like that.

I always trusted Jeff with Steve. I

thought he he'd take Jeff would take

good care of me. Everything would be

fine.

And I know this is going to be

uncomfortable. I do want to ask about

when Steve was was away for that time.

Do you think we can we can talk about it

at all, either of you?

I know it's a you know it's it's

the worst time of my life.

Yeah.

I got a phone call and it was Jeff. I

said, "What's going on?" He said, "Hey,

I just want to know when's the last time

you saw Steve?"

Steven had been missing.

I remember coming home. Mom was like

freaking out and crying. I can still

envision like the Christmas tree and

exactly what was on [music] the

decorations, everything. It's just like

that kind of shock gives you this hyper

focus that just stays in your brain.

We didn't get any help out of the

police. You know, when it first

happened, you're looking for him and you

can't find them and you call, you know,

I think we notified the police. They

said, "Oh, he's a runaway. We don't do

anything about that." And so, you know,

you're looking in all these places that

you don't want to look. There was a

serial killer around at the time was

William Bonan. I think the freeway

killer. Maybe that's what happened to

Steve.

I was just kind of like in denial. And

um that's around the time I became a

complete and total pod head.

I would go to your house every day.

[music] Any news from Steven and we'd

watch General Hospital with your mom,

Janet. I mean for quite a while couldn't

get off the couch. I mean

I think Steve got kidnapped. That was

[music] the big story in those days.

Some punk lady kidnapped him.

And I think people forget that men and

women can be dangerous.

This is Darby Crash, one of the first to

be involved in the punk scene in LA.

Darby's contempt for society and his

disdain for the value of life led to his

participation in a mock game of suicide.

He took too many sleeping pills and this

led to his death.

The suicide derby crash was a huge thing

in my world. I'm thinking that we're in

this, you know, triad that De and Darby

have this really undefinable

relationship. So, I'm thinking that

Darby has done this partially because of

us. And I tell her I have to end it. And

then that's when she tells me that she's

going to have my kid. So her crazy

mother and mother's boyfriend hatched a

plan where the three of them would move

to Las Vegas and I would run away from

home and go live with them. She told me

she would have an abortion if I would go

with her. I thought I had to do that.

You know, this person was saying she was

going to have my kid. I was it was

actually technically I was 13 at this

point. [music]

So then the next morning I showed up to

the rendevous point which was this guy

waiting in a car. It

was like you were supposed to be at

school.

And then we went to a supermarket. We

end [music] up getting like chips and

cartons of cigarettes. That was the one

perk. I could smoke as much as I wanted.

And we went out to a trailer in Kingman,

Arizona, outside of Kingman. And that's

where I was stashed for a week, a week

and a half while they kind of covered

their tracks.

We found out that he was with this

probably with this one girl. And I went

to her house, tried to talk to her

mother. She know answer the phone.

And then um as a new family, we went to

Vegas and then just lived that life. I

dyed my hair, changed my name. It was

like we were on the lamp.

You were gone for how long? I think

ultimately about 3 months.

[music]

I think at some point we got some tip

about Las Vegas.

My parents had a private investigator

and I know that the one of the leads was

a post office box in Kingman, Arizona.

Somehow somebody got in touch with

somebody and they found him in Las

Vegas.

The cops rush in. And I remember hiding

behind this big foam mattress in the

closet and my heart beating really hard.

We went the next morning [snorts] to

picked him up.

I was sick all the way. I think Terry

had stopped couple three times for me to

throw up.

And you didn't press charges?

No. No, I didn't press charges. There

was so much um devastation in our family

from that experience. I just wanted the

whole thing done and everybody just try

to go back to life.

He came home and uh

you know the rest of it and just let it

slide because I mean you know you know I

just you know I just wow

my experience running away from home. I

think I almost felt like I was in a TV

movie

and we processed it with things like

making the Born Innocent album. The name

Born Innocent is a reference to the

Linda Blair movie about juvenile

delinquency.

Chris, this isn't a jail. I mean, we

have a fence there, but uh that's mainly

to keep intruders outside.

We talk a little bit about some

brainwashing that went down, but then we

also are reclaiming the fun and the

mischief of our youth because we had

dealt with a very serious matter.

[music]

So, when Steve got back, he was tall. He

was no longer Jimmy Osman.

We just kind of locked oursel in the

garage and worked really, really hard

for several months.

We became friends again. We were smoking

a lot of weed and like watching like

Partridge Family reruns and getting

really into the just like psychotic

garbage culture.

[singing]

[music]

We were kind of raised by the TV. They

were definitely, you know, had a huge

influence on us.

They lived in their own like makebelieve

fantasy bubble where everything looked

like the Brady Bunch house.

[music]

It was the ultimate lineup. Brady Bunch

and then Partridge Family.

[music]

This is the classic Partridge Family

album. This was our favorite. Um, side

two is up there with Pet Sounds. You've

gotten us really in touch with the

absurd and silly and and take it very

seriously and realize that we can take

this and give it back to the people as

music or art. a lot of of your more

highbrow people tend to look down on pop

culture as this kind of disposable

kind of trashy thing, but for us who

grew up and it's all we have and and I

think there's a rare few that are smart

enough to embrace it and to utilize it,

it's not really um we're not really

doing a parody of it. It's just we are

here it is in the context of hardcore

like yeah Lorie Partridge. That to me is

more radical and subversive than you

know someone drawing a gigantic skull on

their t-shirt.

One of the highest forms of the

underground in LA. Castration Squad. No

mercy for the dead.

Tracy Marshack was um Tracy Lee. She

played guitar in Castration Squad.

They're like this Robert Johnson of

goth, you know, they played like two

shows and

Noc.

[singing and music]

She was so cute. She looked like

Elizabeth Taylor and we at the time we

were really into the Stones and Brian

Jones and I had this idea that she would

be like the Brian Jones of our band.

I was in rehab and then I swear I

remember talking on a pay phone in the

in the Tarzana Psychiatric Hospital and

I thought that's when they asked me to

be in the band but that was I remember

just getting out and then I was I was in

the band. [clears throat]

Tracy was very undependable. The first

day of recording we went to Tracy's

house to pick her up and she just

wouldn't answer the door and her dad

finally came out and said she's not

going.

Is she sick?

She's sick. and he was just like, "Get

out of here, punks."

So, we had to go in the studio and we

knocked off half the record with that.

But then she came, she's on half the

record and and the tracks with her are,

you know, they just she has a certain

sound that cannot be imitated.

The record is the sound of our little

band that Jeff and I were trying to keep

together while smoking tons of pot and

you know huffing spray paint because

that's what the Ramon sang about.

[music]

If your ambition is to have this tight

band and you're listening to that

record, it was a very stressful listen.

I listened to a tape of us playing from

that period. It was such an experimental

disaster. The idea that we went on stage

sounding like that was I was so

impressed.

It's the way they play it is so

offthe-wall. I just don't think we've

caught up to it yet. To me, that record

is one of my top five records of that

era of of US punk rock or of any time.

That record is great.

Hey, that cover. What the [ __ ] is that?

[music]

The photo we went with was a picture of

me with a black curly wig. It's so high

contrast you can't really make out all

that.

You look like Leatherface from Texas

Chainsaw.

Yeah. Am I wearing a mask? The creation

that Jeff has in his mind for who we are

is it's really starting to come to

fruition in the packaging for that

record.

This album is dedicated to all of our

bitching idols. Patty Hurst,

Tuty Annette Pet and the rest of the car

nation

of the young and Connie Francis Linda

Blair.

There was always a thrill of like

knowing that someone bought your record

and you put something really confusing

and it would [ __ ] with them. pictures of

us, you know, introducing the band.

Tracy Lee, this botic creature is the

hottest and of course the foxiest guitar

since the Cary Nations.

Lately, you feel so inseure.

Seems you've had a bad

[music]

I loved several things about it. I

loved, first of all, that there were

girls in the band, Janet and Tracy on

drums and and guitar. And I loved the

brother thing. When Janet and Tracy were

in the band, they would always call

themselves like they wanted to be in an

all girl band. That was their dream. So

[laughter]

they they did what they could.

[music]

A lot of the people we come up with,

people like Black Flag, Circle Jerks,

people who had been in our band before,

these people were really starting to

cash in on this punk rock thing. And it

was really some of these people was like

legitimately drawing a thousand people

to gigs.

I probably would have been more likely

if I had had it my way to play to that

more and try to jump in there and cash

in on that as well.

It's so great to like finally just say

[ __ ] that,

right? And so at some point Jeff just

like laid down the directive. It was

like directives. I remember like

literally like I'm not cutting my hair

anymore. What?

Uh,

it wasn't like that. You were just on

board. It wasn't like this is what we

are doing. Well, are you are you bitter

about that? Cuz you seem extremely

bitter.

No. What what I'm explaining is that my

partner has really marched to his the

beat of his own drum. There was ever

pivotal moments in our career. things

like when we had to change the spelling

of the name, Jeff's like, "It's two

D's." Like what? Two D's. It's like It's

like Red Fox.

It's like Red Fox.

Steve hates me to this day for that. But

it looks better. It's more linear.

It looks cool to me. Like that's a very

cool looking name.

You like the two D's?

Yeah. And the K. Dude, the K is so cool.

[music]

When Jeff and Steve grew their hair out,

that would get you a serious ass kicking

in the audience. But they got a free

pass cuz it was Red Cross, so it's like

you guys can have long hair and we won't

kill you.

I remember seeing a photo of them in

Flip Side. They're just like just hair

flying just going like, "Oh my god, I

need to grow my hair.

I'm not a victim. I was into this stuff

too, but I think that I would have

approached it differently. I wouldn't

have been as bold as we were purposely

like antagonizing the supposed, you

know, counterculture.

That makes it fun and interesting until

you can learn how to play and write

songs.

[music]

Teen Babes from Monsanto,

a rock and roll retrospective.

Yeah, it's our concept album. first

album in three years, but we're just,

you know, we want to tour the world and

just, you know, jam the nation as much

as possible.

Rock the Nation is basically our, you

know, main intent.

Turn it up.

Team Babes from Los Angeles when we

actually came out as rock stars.

[music]

That record is, you know, can I tell it

like it is?

You should tell it like it was. I'm

fine.

Are you fine? Yeah. We all were on speed

[snorts] and um we're crystal meth.

Something unbelievable was when they did

the track for Savior Machine, the Bowie

song in the studio coming out to Big

Speakers. Look, I'm still getting

chills. The slow eerie way that they

played that song, I thought it was like

some ghostly thing coming from another

dimension. To this day, I don't think

I've ever experienced anything that

powerfully demonically transcendent.

[music]

We did most of the whole album in one

night. The drummer didn't know we were

on speed.

I'm Dave Peterson. I played drums with

Red Cross from late ' 83 to early 85. I

didn't know how much speed they were on.

I knew something was going on.

He was just like keeping up and he just

absolutely at the end just like at 9:00

in the morning when we were laying down

Linda Blair 1984, he um I cannot do

anymore. I can't. And he had no idea why

we had so much energy. I was unhappy

with the sound of the record

pretty much from the first night. You

know, people like it, which I like. I

think it's good that people like it, but

I can't listen to it at all. What a

brilliant title for a record. And then

at that time, you know, when most

records were called like, you know,

Fight to Unite or whatever. [laughter]

What the [ __ ] is Monsanto?

[music]

It was a ride at Disneyland that was

sponsored by the Monsanto Company.

It was the journey through to the center

of a molecule [music] and you could

smoke pot because they didn't have

Yeah. They didn't have security cameras

on it. And so it was sort of like the um

you know the the delinquent hangout.

We decided in 1984 to pay tribute to

Kiss.

Yeah. Because Kiss were like the most

unhit band in our scene.

Get up. [music] Get your grandma out of

here.

Get [music] up to the world behind this

year.

That version of Deuce is like the best

thing ever. Like that's my favorite Kiss

performance. It's not Kiss, it's them.

It's like taking something that they

loved and elevating it even higher.

Like, oh, this is these are the Red

Cross guys from the punk rock flyers.

They don't look very punk rock to me.

They look like Alice Cooper. It was the

culmination of everything that was

inspiring my generation encapsulated

into one big [music]

magic eightball. [laughter]

Sam, will you do something before I say

something?

It's called I'll blow you a kiss in the

wind. A little guitar, [music] a little

atmosphere,

and it whales like this.

Wherever [music] you are tonight, I'm

feeling healthy now.

So, I'm going to blow you a kiss.

The evolution of the band is firmly in

place right there. Like, hey, we can do

harmonies. I think punk rock was the

training wheels for the band that they

became.

[music]

We've always been very flamboyant

performers and more so than most of our

peers. But that's not because we think

we're so great. It's because we grew up

seeing these, you know, we Rod Stewart

and Kiss and the Rolling Stones and

the the diva peacock that that I love

Jeff for being.

Well, I'm not a diva peacock. That's

[ __ ]

That's [ __ ]

He really owns it. I mean, I've played

briefly with Beck and he's a showman for

sure, but I don't think that he has the

same kind of Judy Garland thing that my

brother has.

I don't have a Judy Garland. It's more

like It's like this like he's like he's

like it's just it's passion you know.

And why don't you introduce yourselves?

Um my name is Robert. I'm the lead

guitarist of sorts.

How Robert Hecker got

How did Robert Hecker join?

Robert Hecker got into the band. We knew

him as this crazy hippie kid that was

going to punk shows.

Robert, he's unlike anybody I or anyone

has ever met. Doesn't wear shoes on

stage ever. does things like soaks his

his ramen noodles for a week so he

doesn't boil them.

He's kind of like the Mr. Rogers of

rock. Robert is like a spiritual

monk.

I had this beautiful Sears 3-speed and I

rode along the railroad tracks that went

from Hermosa all the way to Hawthorne. I

was like a six mile bicycle rideing

my bicycle to their house

and he showed up with an SG electric

guitar not plugged into any amp and he

just played deuce by Kiss [music]

all that stuff. We did some Kiss stuff.

They were really into Kiss.

No, I in my memory we weren't playing

along with him. He was just playing

dancing wildly like bouncing around in

the room. So basically our feeling about

Robert at that moment was like I have no

idea how his playing is but he's a

[ __ ] freak.

So in ' 85 I graduated from high school

[music] and we went on our very first

tour.

Some of the shows weren't even confirmed

and we would just show up and they're

like that was New Orleans and they let

us play anyway.

It was just cool. So much fun, [music]

you know, and and I I felt like, you

know, we're really like tight, you know.

You get your you get your Well, we going

to the top with top

whatever he says. [cheering]

What are we doing?

[music]

You know, you go on stage, you have your

like weird clothes on and people would

laugh at you or they gasp or whatever,

but it was like a big part of the show.

It was always very halfhazard.

Yeah. Because it was supposed to be

I'm not saying anything negative, so

don't be defensive. Let me just get the

thought out. We had the the station

wagon and then we had a UL trailer. 10%

of that trailer was gear. The rest of it

were the clothes we were thinking of

maybe wearing.

I remember seeing them like Robert was

wearing spandex. They were just all like

kind of glam like punky glammed out like

New York Dollsy. I mean before Red

Cross, nobody had ever heard of glam or

glitter or any of those bands cuz they

were at those shows, you know. I saw

Axel, I saw Slash at those shows. I know

they were taking notes. They had to have

been.

Axel Rose was backstage. I think it was

at Doorman or something. Yeah, I really

love your band. Yeah, we should do some

shows together. I said, "Oh, fine, but

we're not opening." And he's like, "Um,

but you know, we're really getting

popular." And like, no.

I think of Red Cross and I think of

like, you know, them being on stage and

doing that shimmy and the hair moving.

[music]

Red Cross dances like that. [laughter]

Axel Jack the Move.

[music]

We played with the Poisons, you know,

and you know, they were very charming.

Very, very, very nice.

It was We were really mortified by the

thought of being considered in that

vein.

Poison open for them.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And and that's the way it should have

always been.

[laughter]

It's like Mickey 6 has been ripping off

me and Steve for so [ __ ] long. It's

time that you people know about. And I

saw Molly the other night and we kicked

our ass.

The one gig where we made a lot of money

was in New York. We got paid like three

grand which was mafia money for us. I

mean in those days

we love you [ __ ] Yeah.

[screaming]

All right.

We're rock and roll.

There's like a thousand people here. It

was like us opening for the Black Flags,

but it was us. You know what I mean?

[laughter]

I was just like, whoa.

And they came out on stage and they just

killed. They just like decimated the

place.

I'm not in a house.

for the first time, baby. [music]

It was just one of those things where

like we we rose to the occasion, you

know? We were just on fire.

[music]

I said, you know, there's no band in New

York that looks like you guys or dresses

like you guys. You guys are like all

like sunshine and clear skies. And in

New York, it's all like dark nighttime

and people just kind of like listening

to Velvet Underground Records and

singing about heroin. And I remember

[laughter]

like Jeff and Steve looking up at me

like, "Wow, that's so cool." [laughter]

Um, all right, let's talk about the Rock

Against Drugs.

I wanted to save you and I can't. I

can't. Jeff and I had just come through

a period of time where he was really

struggling with drugs and he had just um

managed to to put that behind him for a

while. And it seemed like a good thing

to do, like let's just let's just put

this message out there.

Just staying off drugs for a few days

and starting to see how it was [music]

and actually working towards that. Of

course, the actual clip is is

cringeworththing and inducing, but it's

also kind of sweet. [laughter]

Things are not perfect, [music] and it's

not always easy, but

sure better than it was, [music]

for sure.

[singing]

I don't know how far I want to go into

that that the drug addiction

um journey that goes on and on and on. I

mean, it just it's just annoying.

Tell me about it.

Tell me [laughter] about it.

That stuff always just bogged us down as

a band and just we'd always have to

just, you know, slow down until someone

got healthy again, you know? It was just

a nightmare.

So, it was a lot of frustration.

Just a nightmare. Yeah. A [ __ ]

nightmare

for me.

Not cool. Not Johnny Thunders, not Keith

Richards. Just a horrible struggle

nightmare. just

nothing to do with rock and roll at all.

Just so it bores the [ __ ] out of me. It

really does.

Okay. Well, it's a big part of my story

with making music with you has been it's

been a big part of my story making music

with you,

Jeff. During your last interview, he

like was really he made it clear he

didn't want to talk about substance

abuse stuff. They called it boring. And

I would just think that's probably

shame,

you know, but Jeff would fall off the

wagon and he would fall off the wagon at

really inopportune times.

You know, Steve said in his solo

interview, he said like, you know, I

feel like Jeff choked at a couple

moments. Like, what's your response to

that?

Uh,

[laughter] he said I choked a couple

moment. Um

well I mean he has a habit of blaming

others for his failure so I won't take

any responsibility. Choke. I mean I've

choked but not at any big times. I mean

I'm willing to put myself out there. So

occasionally you choke but um no no more

than him. hideous hard drugs just kind

of snuck in there in the normal ways

that it happens to like any show

business kid. Try something that gets

out of control, out of hand, and then

then they live as an addict and it's

really tragic and then they get better.

They go into treatment a couple of times

and then they get it together

in a nutshell.

That into [laughter] like a third person

thing, but it is also, you know, it's

part of your story.

Yeah. Yeah. So I went into treatment. It

was the first time I was away from music

for a month. On one of the last days I

was there, they took us on a picnic and

I heard Strawberry Fields forever. And

it was just such a heightened experience

because I'd been deprived for a month

and I was finally my [snorts] senses

were all alive. I re I mean I wrote

Peach Klly Pop the day I got home from

treatment.

[music]

Oh yeah. [music] Yeah. Yeah. That's rock

now.

And forget [music] all

that now.

Tommy Erlyy, also known as Tommy Ramon,

was the producer of the record. Every

time I'd show up at the studio, he'd be

telling Jeff and Steve stories, which

they were eating up about the Ramones.

When I first heard the songs, I was

thrilled. These songs sounded to me like

the next step. They were spectacular.

Musically, it was just like whatever

kind of came out [music] because it was

a really weird band. Roy had this kind

of Keith Moonish thing. That's really,

you know, what we were we were about at

that time was like taking all of our

influences and like kind of mashing them

all together. I I think a lot of the

audience was confused and that's what

Play My Song's about. The punk rock

community just not wanting to accept

anything within this very like rigid

standard. Jeff played a tambourine and

one of these punk guys was like there

you go like the band's gone to hell and

that's where play my tambourine and

there you go line comes from

my tambourine and there [music]

you go

so close it was taking all these

influences you know a lot of it's like

metal but also bubble gum and putting

all this together a certain audience

just grew out of that. Particularly in

Seattle, it it all made sense to them.

It was sort of like, oh, there's this

band in Hollywood who's sarcastic and

heavy and psychedelic and punk. [music]

What was happening kind of in Seattle

was sort of the metal dudes and the punk

dudes were sort of like starting to, you

know, cross-pollinate a little bit, you

know, and uh that was a record that I

think everybody could go like this

rocks. May 23rd, 1987, we played at the

Tacoma Ballroom, which was this um big

dilapitated warehouse in Tacoma,

Washington.

We would have liked to have played that

show. U and I think every band in

Seattle at the time really wanted to

play that show. So, the openers on that

were Malfunction,

Sound Garden, and Green River.

Weeks beforehand, it's like, oh man, we

might adjust our set to be a little bit

more a little bit more friendly. meaning

maybe we could throw some songs that are

more fun. We had no songs that were more

fun.

You know, we all thought we did a really

amazing show. And then Red Red Cross

came on. It was just like, "Oh yeah,

they're the headliners."

I also remember running into Pre Nirvana

guys in the audience. I think they'd

started their band but weren't called

Nirvana yet. And um I remember them

saying to me like, "These guys are too

happy. Why are they so happy? You're my

love, you're my happiness, you're the

one, you're the reason why.

Robert Hecker would sing um his song

Love is You, but it was so short. We

would kind of do bongo solos. [music]

Then it turned into us doing Mickey.

But then we'd also start going into like

cheers that we had heard at Hawthorne

High football games. My name is Steve

and I like to pie and when I p

you know that stuff would just evolve

because that's the big difference about

the neurotic era is we started touring.

We actually became working musicians and

that's what happens when you do 50 shows

in a row.

My name is Victor Andrezo and I was the

Red Cross drummer from 1987 to 1990

I think. And I remember going and seeing

them and it was everything I'd ever

dreamed of seeing in a band. They were

the Beatles. They were punk rock. They

were Kiss. And I remember thinking in

that moment I was like, I want to be in

that band so bad.

the mic.

[music]

Just try it.

So, Victor shows up and he's gorgeous,

gorgeous, just gorgeous guy, you know,

[music]

and they get to the audition and it was

I I'll never forget this. They go,

"Okay, side two of Let It Be." And we

played side two of Let It Be from

beginning to end.

Oh,

[music]

the greatest drummer on earth is in this

room with me right now. I I can't even

believe it. [music]

[music]

We made a film as an introduction to a

show that Dave Marky filmed was called

Macaroni and Meure. [music]

Each member of the group had their own

fantasy sequence. Although song remains

the same and I'm in a trash can on

Melrose and then Pippy Longtocking shows

up on a car and then it turns into a

full-blown dance number kind of Alla

MTV.

[music]

What they were doing as artists was so

unique and so kind of out of left field

that it became their own thing.

[music]

More than anything else, Red Cross was a

kind of a built-in teenage suburban

media spoof. And I just loved that about

them.

Glad you have a time.

That's really the the time when we we

got our [ __ ] together and we were able

to start realizing some of the fantasies

that we wanted to do for years and we

had a little bit more resource. We had

fans. we could play like a thousand seat

venue at this point and we had finally

cultivated the sort of like teeny bop

fantasy that we were trying to do. So we

definitely set our sights on like okay

so we need to find a new record label.

We felt like it was our turn to get a

stab at the mainstream. Mega labels are

sort of almost less disgusting because

there's no pretention about what they're

doing. It's like you know it's not about

art. It's about selling product and you

know there's no but that's the same

thing the independent labels are trying

to do actually but there's all this

pretension about oh we're artists artist

labels

they only care about the music.

Yeah they only care about the music and

you know they're ripping they're ripping

teenagers off you know the same way that

these people I mean not everyone is evil

in the recording industry

but we just weren't in step with what

the record labels at the time. And we

had no clue what they were what they

were what they were looking for.

Yeah. We

we we were doing our like soldout gigs

at the Roxy and they would get all the

record labels to come and

well we'd leave that to our manager like

you just get as many people to the show

and try to make that happen and

and they'll magic will just

and then yeah we provide the magic. All

right. That's the deal.

[music]

today.

[music]

So, we're playing this huge showcase and

we close it with our Sergeant Pepper

repreeze and a day in the life.

[music]

[music]

I remember feeling confident because the

show had gone great. We were amazing.

You know, we played side two of Sergeant

Pepper and then the guy was like, "Yeah,

so and so left after three songs. This

person left." Yeah, no one's calling me

back and what do you expect me to do?

You do all these cover, you know? We're

just like, "What?" I remember being like

confused, totally baffled. Do you

remember the Atlantic thing? How the

Atlantic?

Yeah, we played the worst show we'd ever

played in our life and then we got

signed to Atlantic.

So technically the person that signed us

was Toby.

This guy named Toby Emmerich. Question

always ask, "Well, what's he done? What

how do how do we know him?" And it's

like, "Um, have you ever seen those

commercials on TV, the California

raisins?"

I bet you're wondering how I knew

about your

blue. [music]

He was responsible for the the recording

career of the California Raisins

promotion. So, um, we knew immediately

that he understood where we were coming

from. [music]

I don't know how those the record

company was going to deal with Red

Cross. So either the record company was

going to have to change or Red Cross was

going to have to change and they didn't.

Red Cross was too cool for record

company. [music]

[music]

I see your face. When we made Third Eye,

we had to of course choose a producer

and we eventually picked Michael Blum

because he was an engineer and we

figured we could just produce it

ourselves. And he had worked with

Madonna,

which Jeff was a huge fan of. I think

that the part where Jeff says he saw

them as an engineer so that he could

then produce the record. Jeff, that's

kind of it got so we kind of hired

someone under false pretenses and it

really backfired on us.

This was the very first time we had to

play things [music] a million times over

and over and over again. And they would

say, "You're ahead of the beat." And

you're like, "No, I'm not." Then you

would start questioning your timing and

it would went on and on and on. It was

[music] absolute torture. Punk rock.

Then he mentioned Peter Satara and it

was like, "Don't ever mention Peter

Satara while you're working with [music]

us."

It just [ __ ] with our heads. I mean,

it would have got rough if uh we would

take our frustrations out on each other.

Jeff kicked me in the nuts during one

particular difficult overdub. Remember

he was trying to play my acoustic guitar

on a

the song that I had written.

No, I want a riff. I had written.

I had written that riff. I know that I

did.

I know that I did.

Okay. Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. to be in

a situation where they where they were

fighting like uh you know I don't like

it when mommy and daddy fight like I

just didn't know what to do with those

feelings

cheesy days

I remember Jeff going over to Steve and

grabbing his hair pulling it I remember

Steve going I'm going to tell mom

[laughter]

this song was written by my bratty

obnoxious little brother Stephen and

Shane

and that awkwardness all kind came to a

climax at this crucial moment during the

making of our record.

The fighting I just couldn't I couldn't

take it really.

So he quits during the our making of a

rack.

It quits during basic tracks. It's hard

for me to even remember that time

because it felt like

it was so not going the way you wanted

it to go. You know, it's like this was

not the plan. to area code 714977 KDOC.

You the 11th caller will get a Red Cross

cassette in its third eye and that

release, the one that we're here talking

about. And our first video is from that

release. It's Annie's Gone for Ronnie

Bingham in Hollywood. And when we come

back, I want to talk to you guys about

Annie's Gone.

Okay. Right on.

Okay, we'll be back in just a few

minutes.

I talk to people all the time that love

Third Eye. And I know it's our weirdest

record and it's maybe for its failures

of not being a Bonjovi album that make

it so interesting.

Third Eye gets a bad rap and it really

did when it came out.

[music]

It was not very grungy.

No, it was the antithesis of [music]

gone.

And it's gone.

[music]

And it's gone. It's so dark. It's so

dark now.

On the cover of Third Eye, when Jeff

shows up with, you know, Shar's haircut,

I'm just like, damn, dude. You're not

you're [laughter] not [ __ ] around. It

was supposed to look like an art gallery

installation kind of. We look at a bunch

of chicks.

Yeah. I'm not sure about some of our our

tactics and antics, but it was a masked

Sophia Copela who I was dating at the

time.

Yeah, I'm nude on a record cover.

What did What did mom say about that?

Uh, I finally showed my parents and my

my dad said, "I'm wearing a mask. I'm

nude wearing a mask."

Oh, that's all right.

And my hair covering me. at our parents

house, the the red telephone on the

kitchen wall rings and it was um someone

calling from Francis Copala's office and

that um we had been invited to meet

Francis and join him on a flight to Napa

Valley and spend the weekend at his

house with his family. So we got our

crap together, went down to Vanise

airport. So he tells us, "Um, yeah, my

daughter Sophia, um, I was down here

working and before I went home, I called

her and said, "Is there anything you

want me to bring back from Los Angeles

for you?" And she said, "Can you bring

Red Cross?" And we meet Roman, his son,

and Roman's got this idea of this film

about time travelers. Prepare yourself

for a journey back to the strangest,

most alien place ever experienced.

1976.

[music]

I was so into the Red Cross with their

music, but also just their persona and

their kind of love of this kit thing,

which is kind of new.

Chris, yeah. Did I take any shrooms

today? Not to my knowledge.

I feel we wrote those parts for them.

Mel Skatcher. Don Brewer and Mark

Ferner, Grand Funk Railroad.

They are like the American band.

We're talking about casting with, "Oh,

you should get David on another trip."

Yeah, you should get David Cassidy.

Look, I'm not the hero type. And in case

you haven't noticed, history is over.

Jeff and I would start trying to um milk

him for stories about recording, but we

were like, "Okay, you're just about to

record Summer Days

from the Sound Magazine." on the Sound

Magazine album.

Go

[music]

[singing]

[music]

and he would just be like he just I

don't know what that song is. And the

thing about it is I'm like [laughter]

that's that song is the part family's

version of Good Vibrations. where we

spent [music] our early summer days.

So, Spirit of 76 should be called Spirit

of Red Cross. They weren't just in the

movie, but it was really about them in a

way.

[music]

[music]

They say

the future

now. [music]

I never felt comfortable around um

people from such a different world than

mine. But when it came down to it, it

was like some scrappy kid from

Hawthorne. It's not going to really

going to work out.

[music]

[music]

[music]

And then we shifted right into this like

new Red Cross Mach 10 or whatever that

would have been at that point. We had a

budget and so we were spending money on

things like hiring backup vocalists

and it was a little um different and we

were kind of scrambling to figure out

how to control the levers.

We were lost on that tour. We really

were.

We were lost. We we we weren't we were

we were just winging it.

Robert was really have he was having a

hard time with all of the change. Robert

had a difficult time with the with the

record label thing and that having a lot

of money invested in us.

He was really concerned that we were

going to have to pay them back a lot of

money.

Oh, I just I I just knew. I I I I knew,

you know, and so I I I had known for

like a like like a because you know you

you make these painful big huge

decisions in your life. And backstage,

[music] Robert breaks the news to us

that it's his last performance.

[music]

And this is Robert accent. It's like,

dude, I just got to be new wave. I just

got to be new wave. And I remember

hugging him, comforting him. It's okay,

Robert. I know you got to be new wave.

It's okay. You can be new wave.

Anyway, I think the room just cleared

out. But I think it was just the three

of us and Robert sobbing hysterically,

you know.

[music]

I went to a record release party that

they had for Third Eye. And my roommate

at the time had the record already and

she said, "You know, they've got

keyboards on that record. You should ask

them about touring with their band." So

then I went to the party that night and

I just went up to Steve and I walked up

to him and I said, "Hi, I'm Jerry Finley

and I should be in your band cuz I'm

great."

And she was just like this genius

like punk rock Liberace girl.

And there was also a great musical thing

between Jeff and Jerry because um losing

Robert, we had lost some of our

spontaneity as well because Jeff had

this rapport with Robert that was like,

you know, they would lead us down this

road where on on a good night we're

playing half of Sergeant Pepper.

Yeah. Our songs that we don't really

know well and Jerry could do that, too.

[music]

I know when I first came on audition, we

talked about what music we liked and

what we're influences by. And I had

thrown these bands out there at the

time. I was really into like the Pixies

and they didn't know any of those bands.

The Pixies? What's a Pixie? They were

listening to the, you know, the Beach

Boys and they were listening to Big Star

and, you know, Dusty Springfield.

And then we found Ed and Ed was played

like he was more of the hard rock side.

So the idea of having someone who played

really good ' 70s hard rock mixed with

what are more 60s and punk rock

sensibility was really great.

[music]

He was kind of like a Mountain Dew

commercial. He grew up in the Midwest in

Bo, Wisconsin. Fun for him would be

hanging out at the lake or the river

blasting some Ted Nent and [music] you

know smoking a doobie.

He'd carry a bottle of Jovon Musk with

him cuz he wanted to smell like the 70s.

And so before every show he'd rub Jovon

Musk on his guitar strap. So the stage

smelled like the 70s.

So it was just a really fun kind of

learning how to play music and and write

songs and it was like the next level for

me. It was just like it was a [music]

completely joyful time. When I look back

at like the pictures inside of phase

shift, I just remember having this like

feeling of just nothing but like

excitement going home at night listening

to the record like hear the day's work

and be filled with I can't wait for

people to hear this.

This is Red Cross.

Entertainment Weekly magazine recently

called my next guest the most important

band in America. Please welcome, ladies

and gentlemen, Red Cross.

This is the first time on the Tonight

Show, Red Cross. I know [music] we'll

never understand

the blood.

Phase shifter was a moment in time where

it all came together. The combination of

heaviness and happiness. You put that on

and everyone, your kids, your

grandparents, like everyone would

understand why that is so great.

[music]

like you

[music]

superstars of my

they got John Silva who was like more of

kind of like a actual professional

manager and then from Red Cross he

hooked up with Sonic Youth and then from

Sonic Youth

he went to Nirvana.

[cheering]

[music]

[music]

There recently was just a article that

came out where the headline was um uh

you know grunge forefathers Red Cross

and um some of their fans were like

grunge forefathers. Yeah, right. And

it's like, well, no, those guys were a

big deal up there and absolutely a big

influence on on that whole scene.

Kurt was influenced by Red Cross, you

know, like going into areas that [music]

people like, "Oh, no, that's not cool."

Or, and they did that first. It's

interesting when you look at it from

Jeff and Steve's perspective because

Nirvana broke and John was their manager

and John was Red Cross's manager and

there was kind of this world that was

built up from Red Cross that didn't then

carry on.

I wanted to play an arena long before

Kirk Cobain ever strummed his first G

chord, I'm sure. And I think we made no

bones about wanting that at a time when

it was really unchic to let your guard

down and let it be known that to to be

vulnerable to aim at something that you

were most likely going to fail at. And

it didn't happen for us and we had put

it out there that we wanted it to happen

which was a nasty combination.

One day I'm listening to the radio and I

hear this song

[music]

And I get to the chorus and I'm

absolutely sure it's Jeff McDonald

going.

[music]

They totally ripped them off. I mean,

it's crazy. They were basically just

doing Red Cross. Like Scott Wan changed

his voice to sound exactly like that.

You can kind of hear the moment when

somebody handed them neurotic or phase

shifter and was like, "Oh, we could we

can do that. We can do that."

Yeah. But I just thought, "Oh, wow. It's

a tribute." Just felt that, you know, it

was I was really flattered by it.

I'm like, "Well, I'm really happy that

you're so polite about this, but that is

a [ __ ] fake Red Cross song.

[music]

When we played at the Reading Festival,

it was the year that Kurt Cobain [music]

came out in a wheelchair and they were

the last band on the main stage. were

the first band and we opened up with um

the overure for Tommy.

[music]

[music]

I remember we did a television thing. It

was a film concert with the BBC. We did

it so well. We did it as good as the who

actually live bootlegs of them doing

that.

[music]

That audience, they were just looking at

us like we were completely.

It was like we just got on stage and

took a [ __ ] on the stage.

[music]

Timing was not on our side. There's the

classic conflict of, you know, do you

sell out? Do you make things that you

don't believe in because the devil has

promised you something?

The devil never came knocking on my

door. So I can't claim to have done the

morally art the artistic higher ground

and have turned it down. I know that

he gives [music] me trouble.

Everything

he [music] tells me is such a lie

[singing]

and walk [music]

by.

The way the band disintegrated was never

okay with me. I think it had been such

an arduous process making show world and

all that pressure that I put on us or we

put on ourselves or whatever it was.

Okay.

You have to hit the whole course. You

can't just pull in half.

Okay. Hopefully it'll just work as a

part that it changes the tone. I felt a

bit on autopilot at that point because

we had been really just touring a lot

and just working a lot and it just was

kind of a burnout

and so it just was starting to feel

like,

you know,

maybe it's time to try something else.

[singing]

after we finished promoting Show World,

it was I never went on stage like 13

years or something like that. And I and

I just recorded and I never missed it. I

never was never like um but I know I

didn't want to jam with anyone. I had no

interest in that. I knew I'd play with

Red Cross again, but I just didn't know

when. It was no hurry.

Stephen McDonald, he's a [ __ ] rock

god.

Steve McDonald is maybe the best bass

player I've ever heard in person.

I really like his style. He's like the

punk rock Paul [music] McCartney on the

bass.

I don't understand why some huge famous

band hasn't hired him.

[music]

Steven McDonald is easily one of the

greatest bass players in Southern

California, maybe in the world.

[music]

And they auditioned for Weezer. I

auditioned for Billy Corgan. I didn't

get any of them.

So around 2001 I did my own bando

fugitive. I did that for a little bit. I

wanted to be a lead singer but that was

you know it was a drag. I didn't have my

the brother team thing I was used to.

[music]

And so Steve finally went out and got

his own life and I got to live my life

too. Ace Freely is no regret right next

to Soul Picnic, the Lauren Arrow story.

And we still hung out but it wasn't like

we were attached. So that was the

longest period where we would wouldn't

see each other for weeks on end.

Oh, we always sing. [laughter] We always

sing Tomorrow Never Knows by the Beatles

along with that hum.

I'm Charlotte Cathy from the Go-Os and

I'm married to Jeff McDonald from Red

Cross.

[music]

So in walks this guy with platform shoes

on, so he was close to 7 feet probably.

Share 65 hair, you know, the straight

across bangs long to the waist. And I

was like, "Oh my god." like it was such

a revelation. Like I had never seen him

before. I didn't know him and I was

like, "Oh man." So I guess I introduced

myself and it was kind of like, "Hey,

way up there, you know, hi." And um and

that was the first part of it.

Okay. [laughter]

By the authority vested in me by the

state of [music] California and in the

presence of God and your loving friends

and family, I now pronounce you husband

and wife.

Anna one. I'm Anna Warren Kerr. I'm in a

band called That Dog and I am married to

Steve McDonald. [music]

The first date was she just mastered her

second album, Totally Crushed Out, and I

had recorded a friend's band. So, we

were going to listen to our test

pressings together.

And um and we didn't do much listening.

We just kind of,

you know, we really connected

immediately.

Astrid want soft six.

I'm Astra McDonald. I'm the singer in

the side eyes and I'm Jeff McDonald's

daughter.

My dad and I have always been really

close. Like we're kind of best friends,

which is a really rare thing. And I feel

really lucky to be able to say that.

I remember this.

A classic.

Like when I was a pre-teen and I had an

iPod for the first time, he would like

sneak on my computer and put music on my

iPod for me. And it was always like the

Beatles and the Stones. And I would see

it. I'm like, "Why are you putting music

on my iPod? Like stay out of my

computer." But I would always listen to

it and I loved it. like it was kind of

like the coolest thing.

You're a rule [clears throat] follower.

I'm a rule follower.

And Jeff was a remarkable father to

Astrid and she's a really remarkable kid

and um she thinks she would call her dad

her best friend and I should be so lucky

as that when I'm older.

Thank you.

Steve has a massive heart. He loves

Alfie, our son, ridiculously. And I

mean, I think having a hectic upbringing

has been useful in a way because it just

made his heart even more open.

Who's stricter, your mom or your dad?

My dad. As a parent, I think that he's

very like you can do what you want, but

if it's in a spot where I don't feel

like you're going to be safe, straight

out of the equation.

Researching the blues is your first

album in almost 15 years. What has the

kind of journey been up to up to this

point?

This is so complicated. 15-year journey.

Do you really want me to answer that

question?

Well, maybe just Spark Notes version.

Just one chapter.

Uh, okay. One brief chapter. Um, we grew

up.

All right. Tonight's a very special

night [cheering]

amongst other things, uh, our first

night in Madrid in over 10 years. We

went to Spain and and played this

festival called Es Kenna. And evidently

we had stole the show that year.

[music]

Jeff was doing all of his, you know,

Liza and Ellie Freddy Mercury moments.

[music]

It was a meaningful night though. It was

really cool. It's like these guys belong

in this environment.

[music]

[singing]

This is the part. This is where I choke

singing and playing.

And then by 2007 or eight, we started

recording. Jeff had a bunch of songs

[music]

and my friend got away once again.

[music] You'll get caught just

[music]

I thought that it was amazing that they

had taken this hiatus and then came back

with a record that was possibly their

best record ever. They just have that

songwriting gene that never diminishes.

Stay away from downtown. That song, I

thought that was like the one of the

most ripping things I'd ever done.

You better stay away from [music]

downtown. [music]

Maybe there's something that's

exceptional about our story is that

we're maybe having the most relevant

time creatively at this stage in our

life. Seems like some of our best

recordings have happened in this second

phase.

We had um researching the blues on tape.

So we would just listen to that over and

over again. You know, stay away from

downtown and everything is so catchy,

you know.

[music]

You know what happens to people like us,

the fans as well. We still need this

form of escape.

Oh, get [music] mad as a dirty pretty

woman in a dust class. No one

to

[music]

This one looks like it's been worn a

little bit red. I don't know when this

was.

It's a good t-shirt. Maybe I'll start

wearing it.

No, maybe you will not. They did well.

Both of our sons did well. I'm proud of

them. Period. Just period.

There is something that's very

comforting for me to be with Josh. To

spend so much of your life with someone

in a group where you've got another

person by your side that has so many of

the same likes and dislikes.

It it really is um I feel fortunate.

What stayed the same from those earliest

days till now in terms of you guys being

in this band together?

I know that I like playing rock and roll

music. That's always been anytime we've

ever been together. That's been the main

reason is to play music.

That's amazing.

So do it.

Okay, we will.

I would say playing music with Jeff

still really turns me on. I'm still his

little brother and his that moment where

he just doesn't really know what to say.

It's like it stirs the same sort of

feelings as it would have when I was 10.

From California,

there's a telepathy. There's a there's a

dysfunction and there's a unique

functioning [snorts] that happens within

the dysfunction that I think is all

still there.

[music]

Would

[music]

you give me a standing ovation [music]

so bad?

You better go now.

You better look out.

Except for I have said before in these

interviews that the decision to add a

second D to red was probably not

marketing genius.

[screaming]

[music]

One, two, three, four.

[music]

When I [music]

was 15,

I hated school. Knew what I wanted to

do.

I think [music] the cast are just party

books. You

I wrote a song, played a show,

quit the only job [music and singing]

that I ever knew. I rejected your own

blues and excuse.

We are [music] born in a sense. We all

are born innocent. [music]

We are born born innocent. We all are

born in [music]

original

When I was just 10, I joined the school

[music] band so that I could begin

campaign for a face to our parents

[music] would like to give.

I

surive

[music] is not the place for a child

to come to the world.

[music]

We are born in aense. We all are born in

aense. We are born in aense. We all

[music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

Oh, we are born born innocent.

[music and singing]

We all are born innocent. We are [music]

born born innocent. We are

in

We [music] are

in We are in [music] We

are [music]

Heat. Heat. [music]

[music]

Heat. Heat.

[music]

[music]

We are

innocent. We are [music]

in