Original subtitles

(gentle music)

(glass shattering)

(gentle eerie music)

(gentle melancholy music)

(gentle jazz music)

(gentle jazz music continues)

(gentle jazz music continues)

(gentle jazz music continues)

(gentle jazz music continues)

(bright tinkling music)

(soft music)

(Vernon grunting)

- Ah, who, who's there?

(Vernon grunting)

Who's there?

- [Gerald] Gerald Thomas, "Watts Chronicle."

(Vernon grunting)

- I'm coming.

I'm coming.

Okay.

(Vernon sighs)

Boy.

(Gerald knocking)

I'm coming, I'm coming!

All right, all right, I, I'm coming, I'm, I'm coming.

On the phone, you said you'd be here around, uh,

6:00, uh, 7:00, but it's only 6:15.

- [Gerald] I apologize.

I thought traffic would be a little heavier

this time of day.

Figured I could drive around for 45 minutes

or take a chance and be early. (chuckles)

I'm not, I mean, I can come back later if I'm interrupting.

- No, no, nah.

It's better early than later, I always say.

Uh, I was just reading.

- [Gerald] You said you were, you were reading?

- Yeah, yeah, I was, uh, reading the, um, the, uh,

I was reading the sports section and,

and the Bible. (chuckles)

- [Gerald] Interesting combination.

- Well, you know, I read the Word some every day and, uh,

well, wasn't much in the "Chronicle,"

uh, no offense.

- [Gerald] None taken.

(door creaking)

- You know, you, you, you look familiar.

Have we, have we met?

- I don't think so. Who do you think I look like?

- I, I don't know.

I, mm, oh, ah, hey, ah, I'm just an old man with old eyes.

Come on in, come on in.

And, and, and, and don't trip over none of that crap.

Try to sue me. (laughs)

- All right, Vernon,

you're not expecting anyone else, are you?

Wanna make sure we have enough time for your interview.

- Ah, no. (laughing)

Shit, ain't nobody come around here no more.

(Vernon sighs)

This house used to be full of folk.

Uh, neighbors dropping by, grandkids running around,

even a, even a girlfriend or two used to come through,

but no more, just old Vernon's memories. (laughing)

(Vernon sighs)

What, what, what, what'd you say your name was again?

- Gerald. Gerald Thomas.

Is there, uh, some place I can sit down, Vernon?

- Oh, excuse me. And where my manners at?

I, uh, whoa. Uh.

Oh, you know what?

Let me get this here.

Uh.

There you go.

Mm. (Vernon grunts)

And there you go.

Now here, you just park it right here,

and I'll get right here on the couch.

- Thanks again, too, for doing this.

(Bernie laughing)

It shouldn't take long.

- [Vernon] Okay.

- Hope you don't mind,

I, I like to tape record the interview.

Helps me to write the article later.

- Ah, ain't nobody ever did

a newspaper story about me before. (laughing)

I was, uh, well, when did you say it was gonna be

in the paper because, uh, I think I'm gonna buy me

a whole bunch of copies just to send it

to my kinfolks back home. (chuckles)

Yeah, they get a real kick outta that.

Old Vernon Chambers, celebrity. (laughing)

- Uh, the article should be in next Sunday's paper,

the, uh, in the Lifestyle section.

- Ah.

So on the phone you say you writing about Black vets.

- Yeah, that's right.

- Oh, well, uh, I mean, how'd you find me?

LA must have 50,000 Negros that served in Korea.

I mean, what made you decide to write about me?

- Actually, I have a friend that works at the VA.

He let me look through some, some records,

and I just picked your name out at random.

- Ah. (laughing)

Ain't that about nothing.

- So let's get started.

- Pft, all right. Shoot.

I'm ready to become a star. (laughing)

- Um, let's start with your early life. Where were you born?

- Um, (clears throat) Grayton, Alabama,

little town in the sticks about 40 miles north of Mobile.

- Brothers and sisters?

- [Vernon] Uh, I had, uh, six.

- So there were seven kids including you?

- No, counting me, there was 13.

We had six boys and six girls. I was the youngest.

But see, all the boys died before I was out of short pants.

Um, Jesse and Marvis

got killed in France during World War II

and Jerome got burned up on an oil rig in a fire in 1947.

And Terrell, (laughing)

he got shot by pimp in New Orleans.

Then Roy and Clayton, well,

they got lynched by the Klan.

- So no brothers, just your sister and your parents?

- Yeah. My sisters and my mama.

You know, my father, he left at my eighth birthday

and I ain't seen a hide or hair of them since, you know?

Yep. So it was just me and the women folk.

- What was that like, growing up without any men around?

- Well, you could say I missed

having, uh,

a man around to, uh, teach me how to be a man, you know?

Or you could say I missed having a man around to screw me up

and got a chance to grow and to be my own man.

You know what I mean?

- Yeah.

Um, what about your time in the service?

- Um, well,

I got drafted in '54

and uh, I did bootcamp at Benning

and I shipped out three months after.

- And you were stationed?

- In Manila and then Seoul.

Hey, you want drink?

- Sure.

- Uh, JD on the rocks?

- Sure. That'd be great. (Vernon laughing)

- It's my favorite.

Ah.

Yes, sir.

Oh, okay.

Uh.

(Vernon laughing)

Uh, you know, you gotta excuse the place.

I gave the maid the day off. (laughing)

- I can tell.

- Ah.

You know, because of you,

I broke out the good stuff. (laughing)

Ah.

Ah.

(ice clinks)

Oh.

Forgot the stuff, huh? (laughing)

Woo!

Ah.

Ah.

Okay.

Yeah.

How's that? That's good?

- That's great. - All right.

(Vernon laughing)

Woo!

Yes. To super stardom. (laughing)

- Cheers.

(soft jazz music)

Anything unusual happen in Seoul or Korea?

- Ah. Well.

I caught the clap from a $5 hoe. (laughing)

- Anything a little more exciting?

Maybe combat with the enemy?

- Well, uh,

between who?

The, the gooks or the crackers?

- Either.

- Well, the gooks never did anything to me, you know?

- What about the crackers?

- Uh, uh, you need some more ice?

- No, this is, this is fine.

- You mind, you mind if I get some

because, uh, I like

my women hot and my liquor cold. (laughing)

Ah. (sighing)

Ah.

Ah.

- So you were, you were saying about the crackers.

- Mm.

Let's just say I got out of the war in one piece,

but the problem was I couldn't go back home. (chuckles)

- You couldn't go back home again?

(Vernon laughing)

- You know, I should put that shit

on a bumper sticker. (laughing)

So you moved here to LA and what the early 60s?

- '64.

Then I met a sweet young girl from Tulsa

named Gwendolyn Miller. (chuckles)

Yes, indeed.

I had two boys by her,

but we split after three years.

- Why'd you split?

- She caught me with another woman.

Hey, y-you ain't gonna put that in the paper, are ya?

- Well, not if you don't want me to.

- Ah, it don't matter.

It's a new day, ain't it? (chuckles)

People don't care about that kind of thing no more, do they?

Not like it was when I was coming up. (chuckles)

Yeah, getting divorce was a big deal back then.

- Yeah, I guess you're right.

Anything else interesting happen in the service?

(Vernon sighing)

- Nah, not really.

Well I beat up a guy once.

- White guy? - Black.

- What happened?

- He disrespected me.

- How so?

- Hey, how, how's that drink?

- It's fine.

You were telling me about the fight.

- Oh, well, uh,

oh, you know, you,

you, you, you, you still wanna know about that?

To tell, the fact is I don't even know what got between us.

I, maybe it was probably something stupid.

Maybe it was a woman of a pair of socks.

- Did you get in trouble for it?

- The what, what? The fight?

No.

Really, I don't remember.

Korea was a long time ago, son.

- All right.

Let's, um, let's go back to your family.

- [Vernon] Uh, well, uh,

I-I really don't talk about my folks much either.

- What about the family you made here in LA?

- Okay.

Well, I already told you about Gwendolyn.

- Was she your only wife?

- No, I had another one besides Gwen.

Uh, her name was Sylvia.

- What was she like?

- Ah.

She was tall, stacked. (laughing)

Green eyes.

Woo! Spoke real proper, real classy.

But you know what?

I got some pictures.

- Let me see if I...

See, where is it?

Ah.

Let's see.

Hold on. I know they right...

Ah, shoot.

Okay.

Let's see.

Oh.

Boy.

Oh. Shoot.

Ah, here they go. (laughing)

Woo!

Ah.

This was Gwen

and this is Sylvia.

I know you can't tell just from looking at me now,

but I used to be quite the young buck

back in the day! (laughing)

Woo-wee! (laughing)

Foxes like those two used to fall all over me. (laughing)

Woo,

baby!

Mm.

Ah. (chuckles)

- Did she have any kids?

- Ah, Sylvia?

Yeah, she had two boys by her first husband

and a little girl from her second.

- What did this Sylvia Martin do for a living?

- Sylv, well, she was...

Wait a minute.

How'd you know her last name was Martin?

- You told me.

- No, I didn't. I-I never said a full name.

- It must have been in your file then at the,

at the VA office.

- Uh-uh.

Once they discharge you,

they don't mess with your records no more.

And I got discharged in '55.

I married Sylvia in '64.

So,

how'd you know?

- Well. (chuckles)

- Wait a minute.

I knew you looked...

Carl. Is that...

Recognized you!

- Sit down!

Shut up!

(tense music)

- What the f... (panting)

Oh God. What the hell are you doing?

Are you fucking crazy?

What the hell is-

- Shut up! - Boy.

Boy, get this shit off me.

- Be still! - Gonna knock your ass out.

God damn it!

What the fuck you doing!?

- You ain't gonna do nothing.

- Take this shit off me! (panting)

Fuck.

God. (panting)

Hey, what is, what is this?

What, what are you doing?!

- Sh!

Be quiet!

- Why are you here, man?

What do you want with me?

- I wanted to see you one last time.

Get your side of the story.

Hear what you have to say about those days.

- Hear what I had to say about what days?

What days?!

- The days when you lived with us.

I wanna hear what you have to say about those days.

Hear what you have to say about those times.

- Boy, you smoking.

I don't know what the fuck you talking about!

Take this shit off me and get out

of my mother fucking house!

- Whoa.

Whoa, Vernon, you've been so hospitable up until this point.

- Okay, boy.

All right.

So far nothing bad has happened.

Now why don't you just leave before something does?

- No!

That's where you wrong, Vernon.

A lot of bad things have happened

and I want you to talk about those things, Vernon.

It's a whole lot that I don't understand.

It's still a whole lot that I don't know.

I need you to talk about those things, Vernon.

- What damn things, boy?!

(Carl laughing)

- Oh, you don't know what I'm talking about?

Huh?!

You want me to think that you,

you just some feeble old man without no memory.

Like you can't remember anything past

last week's bingo game at the old folks home.

Is that what you want me to believe?

- Boy, if you don't let me loose,

I'm gonna start yelling.

- [Carl] Go ahead and yell.

- I'm gonna start yelling and somebody's going to hear me

and call the cops.

- Go ahead and yell!

- And the cops are going to bust in here and bust you, fool!

- They gonna bust in here and find me holding a gun

on an old man that I tied up.

- That's right!

- That's right. Maybe that's right.

Maybe that's what they going to find, Vernon.

Or maybe they gonna find you

with a bullet in your head. (chuckles)

And me gone.

This Watts, Vernon.

Don't nobody care if you yell.

And even if they did call the cops,

it's gonna take 'em 40 minutes to get here.

How far do you think I can get in 40 minutes?

(Vernon screaming)

(Carl screaming)

- Help! - Help! Oh, take it.

Oh, you like that?

Oh, you like that?

(Carl screaming)

- Help! Help! - Oh, oh, take it.

Take it. Oh, you like that, Daddy?

Oh yeah, you like that?

Oh yeah, you like it.

Oh, you like it.

(Vernon panting)

(Carl laughing)

(Vernon screaming and panting)

- Oh, you ain't gonna shoot nobody!

- Keep yelling, keep yelling and find out.

- All right.

All right!

All right. Just calm down, all right?

Just, and put that damn gun down!

I'll tell you what you wanna know. Untie me!

But you gotta let me loose first. All right?

- How about, how about, how about,

how about you earn my trust?

- All right. All right. All right.

What do you, what you wanna know?

What do wanna know?

- Wanna know about that night.

- What night?

- Christmas night! 1967, man!

- I...

I can't remember that far back.

- You don't remember?

Come on, Vern, you're supposed to be building trust with me.

This is a relationship that we're supposed to be building

and relationships are built on trust!

I do something for you and you do something for me.

You tell me the truth about what I want to know

and I untie you and walk away from here.

(Vernon panting)

- How I even know that damn thing is loaded?

(soft piano music)

- Do you know they make you wait 10 days

before you can bring home the gun that you bought?

Did you know that?

They don't make you wait for the bullets though.

I bought two boxes.

.36 caliber.

Why I got so many?

Most I'ma I need is one.

(gun clicks)

(Vernon grunting and panting)

Now,

I did something to earn your trust.

- What?!

- I showed you that the gun was loaded.

So now you do something to earn my trust.

- What do you want?!

- I want to know about Christmas night, 1967.

- I...

- Come on.

Come on, Vernon.

It was only what?

19 years ago.

You lived with us in that little house

over on St. Matthews.

Mom worked the graveyard shift at the diner

and they always threw this big Christmas party

for the employees and the families.

(people chattering)

(soft piano music)

- Ho, ho, ho.

So what can Santa bring you for Christmas?

- A velvet Jesus.

- A what? What?

- A velvet Jesus Paint by Numbers art project.

It's a picture of Jesus on a piece of black velvet.

- With a cheap cardboard backing.

It came with 10 little jars of different colored oil paints.

Skinny Santa couldn't understand

why an eight year old would wanna make a painting of Jesus.

- How about a nice toy dump truck or a baseball mitt?

Doesn't that sound better than a...

I mean, a...

- A velvet Jesus.

But that's what I want.

- Okay.

Ho, ho, ho.

(girl giggling)

(soft music)

- So what you gonna get for Christmas?

I want a slingshot.

- I want a new Rock'em Sock'em Robot kit.

- What about you, fairy boy?

Gonna get a new doll?

- No! I want a velvet Jesus.

(kids laughing)

- Leave him alone!

He's special. He's an artist.

- Well, our dad's says he's soft.

- Well, Vernon's a joke, so who cares?

- Stop it! Stop it! Stop it now!

You boys know better than this.

I'm gonna call your father Vernon.

Now what is going on?

- Nothing. We were just playing.

- Carl, is that what happened?

- [Carl] Yes, ma'am.

- Okay, let's get cleaned up so we can go see Santa

and then go to the Christmas party, okay?

- Psh, you ain't our mama.

- You boys okay? - Were fine.

(soft music continues)

Come on.

- Listen, will you please tell me

what this little story got to do

with me being tied up in my own damn house?!

- Actually, this part,

this part don't have much to do with you at all.

It's the next part.

The next part, that's where you come in, Vern.

- Well, could you get the remote

and fast forward us to that part, please?

- No, Vern. Hold on!

You see, these Santas, these rent-a-Santas,

they had this little trick that they used to do.

When, when the kid tell them what gift they wanted,

the Santa would repeat it in a loud voice

with a big "ho, ho, ho", loud enough

so the parents could hear what the kid wanted.

So come Christmas morning, it'd be a Chatty Cathy doll

or a Hot Wheels set.

- Or a velvet Jesus.

- Or a velvet Jesus under the tree.

(Vernon laughing)

- Well, you got your little Paint by Numbers kit

and you and Jesus rode off into the sunset. (laughing)

- Sorta.

See,

see what, uh...

What my mom didn't know,

what nobody knew

was that painting wasn't for me.

It was for you.

It was for you, Vernon.

It was my gift to you so that you stop calling me names.

- What? Boy, I ain't never called you no names.

- No. See, that's where you wrong again, Vernon!

There wasn't a horrible name that you didn't call me.

To you, I wasn't Carl, I was Carol.

What?

Oh, come on, man. (laughing)

- [Carl] Oh, now that's funny?

You think that's funny?

What, you don't remember that either?

- Anybody could mess up a name from time to time.

Especially if they had a couple.

- I was Carol when you were sober!

But a couple was, it was just enough

to bring out the evilness in you.

- I was good to you, boy.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were good to us.

You was real good to us.

And after a couple, you got even better.

Yeah, when you had a couple it was,

it was, it was punk

and sissy

and faggot.

- Will you these loosen these ropes?

You rubbing the skin off my mother fucking wrists!

- Oh, now you want me to do you another favor?

What about our deal, man?

I was supposed to do something for you.

Show you there was bullets in the gun

and you supposed to tell me about Christmas night 1967!

But so far I'm doing all the telling.

You know what?

I'm gonna show you how fair I can be.

Despite everything.

(Vernon grunting)

(Vernon grunting)

- Ah.

(Vernon sighing)

Shit.

- [Carl] Yeah. Make me one too.

(Vernon grunting and panting)

(Vernon grunting)

- Now you wanna hear my side of the story

of what happened back then?

(soft music)

Even though your mama,

your mama never missed a chance to tell me

how much better you was

than my own sons.

She...

She always was showing me your report card,

bragging about all the As you got,

just like she had got the marks herself.

(Sylvia chuckling)

- Vernon, can you believe how smart my little Carl is?

I mean, he is the brightest one in the family.

Look at all those As. (laughing)

My, my, my.

- You know she used to get up all on my nerves

with all the god damn bragging.

- Is that why you beat her?

- What?

Never laid a hand on that woman.

- Oh, that's funny because I seem to remember a night

you tried to choke her out.

- You know, Vern.

Stop.

Stop it.

Vernon. (grunting)

Vernon!

Stop! (panting)

Get off of me before the kids come in. (sobbing)

- Get off my mommy!

- That's not what happened.

It's a fucking lie.

Man.

We, we was just wrestling.

We was playing.

(both laughing)

- Ooh, Vernon. - Yeah.

- Oh, Vernon. - Yeah.

- [Sylvia] Gotta get off of me before the kids come in.

- [Vernon] No, let them come in, shoot.

(Sylvia laughing)

- [Sylvia] Vernon.

- Get off my mommy!

- Boy, you know I'm just playing with your mama.

Come on. Go on, get.

- And, and that's when you walked in after you saw us

and you thought I was trying to hurt her,

but we was just playing, man!

You know what, you was always getting shit wrong, Carl.

I mean, you was always trying to protect your mama from me,

but I never once did anything wrong to her.

Not once!

I was good.

- Yeah, you were good to her.

- Yeah, I was real good.

Oh, and she spoiled you!

She spoiled all y'all, but especially you.

I mean, I was there trying to be a man

and make a man out you.

And she just thought I was being cruel to you

because I talk a little rough to you.

Well, if I wasn't there,

who else going to do it, huh?

She sure as hell wasn't,

with all that kissing up and bragging on all you boys.

What kinda woman kisses up on a half grown ass boy?

Shit!

If I wasn't there to grow you up to be a man,

then who else was gonna do it, huh?

Your daddy wasn't shit.

He was nowhere to be found.

So who else was there?

- Yeah. Yeah. You.

You were the self appointed man maker.

It was your job to, to taunt me and to mock me

and curse me into manhood.

And when she stepped in to make you back off,

you did what any real man would do.

You beat her. - That's a fucking lie.

- You beat her like she was some kind of animal.

- I never laid a hand on that bitch!

- I'd be careful with my next words if I was you.

- Why you here, Carl?

Huh?!

What gives you the right to lie about who you are

and come in here and pull a fucking gun on me!?

And tie me up and tell me some bullshit story

about what you think I did to you

and your mama 20 years ago?

(soft music)

- You said you wanted to make a man out of me?

- Yeah! - Is that why you did it?

- Oh my God.

Here we go again.

Did what?

- The night I gave you the painting,

do you remember what you did?

- I probably put that smelly thing outside.

The fucking cheap oil paint smelled

like a sack of dead possums.

- So you do remember? - I remember the stink.

- Do you remember what you said?

- I graciously thanked you for that smelly thing.

- Not quite.

You laughed at it.

And you told me what you thought about it.

You told me what you thought about me.

- Fuck kind of bullshit is this?

Ain't nobody could have made this

except some faggoty ass punk.

That's what you are, huh?

You ain't nothing but a little faggot.

But I know how to toughen you up.

I know how to make a man out of you.

Yeah.

- That's a lie!

I never talked to you like that.

(Vernon groaning)

(Vernon inhaling)

Ah!

(Vernon groaning)

No, no ice for my arm?

- You don't deserve it.

- Deserve it?

- You shouldn't have charged me!

- You come into my house,

you hold me at gunpoint,

tie me up in my room and when I try to defend myself,

you, you break my arm.

- You're fine.

- Oh.

What are you now? You were a reporter.

Now you're a fucking doctor?

- I said you're fine!

- Look, well, it hurts like hell!

Can I at least have some ice please

or at least a drink or something

to ease this god damn pain!

- No!

(Vernon grunting)

(Vernon sighing)

(pills rattling)

This it?

- Yeah.

- This is the first and last time.

These things are strong and you've been drinking.

- He says (chuckles) as he gives 'em to me.

- You don't want it?

- Yeah. Yeah, I want it. I want it. I want it.

I want it.

- Open your mouth.

(Vernon grunting)

(Vernon exhaling sharply)

(Vernon grunting and panting)

- Hey, hey, hey, hey.

I, I got a proposition for you. (chuckles)

Ah.

(Vernon sighing)

Why don't you gimme some ice for my arm

and I'll give you some JD for that ice.

Tell you where my stash is. (chuckles)

- No thanks.

- You wanna play some checkers?

Hey, I got one good arm left,

why don't we do some one arm wrestling? (chuckles)

Winner gets that gun. (chuckles)

- Oh, you think this is funny?

(Vernon laughing)

- Yeah, I think it's funny.

I think I ain't seen none of y'all in 20 something years

and next thing you know, I'm tied up in my living room

with a gun pointed at my head

and little nigga holding the gun

is an all grown up version of my stepson.

And now he's telling me something about a fucking painting.

That he gave me back in 1969. (laughing)

- 67! - What the fuck ever!

So what you gonna do now, huh?

Shoot me?

Then shoot me then mother fucker!

Shoot me.

Shoot me.

(Carl chuckling)

- Not so tough all tied up.

We gonna finish talking.

And you not gonna get up out of that seat.

No more loosening the ropes.

No more going to the bathroom.

No more nothing until we're done talking.

(eerie music)

- All right.

All right.

All right.

Maybe I, I was a little tough on you growing up,

but that's what you needed.

- Why did I need to be beaten down by your words?

- I wasn't beating you down, boy.

I was toughening you up.

- Why did I need to be toughened up?

- Now you, you the one that don't remember.

Boy, you was weak.

At the age of 10 you was the size of a boy that was seven.

You, you, you,

you swished when you walked.

And you wouldn't play no boy games.

You always playing with your sister and her dolls.

The Christmas before the one you was talking about,

we got your sister one of them Easy Bake Ovens

and you damn near knocked over to get into that box,

whipping up them little biscuits and shit.

And you begged your mama to take

some piano lessons at school

'cause you want to be the first Black Liberace.

- And so that made it okay for you

to call me all those horrible names?

- I didn't call you no names!

I never did, but if I did, and hey,

I'm not admitting that I did

'cause that was a hell of a long time ago,

but if I did, it was to help you.

- Faggot ass punk to a 10 year old.

- It was to help you.

- A booty bandit,

um, rump ranger,

dick loving sissy,

because I like to play with my little sister.

- It was gonna make you stronger.

- You were supposed to support me!

- I was supporting you!

Boy, I was trying to give you some spine.

- I was a kid!

I was the smartest kid in my school.

My teacher said if I kept up the way that I was going,

there's no doubt I'd have my choice of colleges.

(Vernon laughing)

What is wrong with you?

- You know what they call a nigger with a college degree?

A nigger!

They, they don't give a fuck about how smart you are.

You know, white men laugh

at anybody who tried to compete with him in his world,

but what he fears is somebody

whose nature is stronger than his.

See, you was trying to compete with your books

and your grades and your proper talk.

But what you needed to do

is growing up into was something

that the white boys feared!

And the thing that they feared more than anybody else

since the day they brought us over here

on the slave ship is a nigger.

A real man nigger!

Strong, rough.

Tough!

Ha.

Smart'll get you a $2 job somewhere,

but tough will make 'em fear you.

And if they fear your ass,

they leave your ass alone.

- Vernon, would you have been happier

if I was more like your sons?

- The question is,

would you have been happier if you was like them?

(soft music)

(Vernon grunting)

- Stand up.

Sit your ass back down.

(Vernon grunting)

(Vernon grunting)

- Thank you.

You know when your mama left me,

I was gonna go on back down to Grayton

or going down south somewhere and just start over.

I don't know. Something kept me here in LA.

Who knows?

Get used to a place after a while,

maybe it was the weather.

Who knows?

I got this little shack,

moved in here about a month after y'all left.

- Why'd you leave our house?

You could have stayed there.

(Vernon chuckling)

- [Vernon] What was I gonna do

with a big ass three bedroom house?

- You ever miss it? - Not really. I miss the pool.

- I miss my friends and my school.

Mom moved us way out to Pacoima.

It took me a long time to make new friends.

(Carl sighing)

- So your mama ever get remarried?

- [Carl] No.

- How's she doing?

- She died six years ago.

- I'm sorry.

Your brother, sister?

- They're good.

They both have kids.

They're doing well.

- You ever get married?

Never got married.

Why?

(Vernon chuckling)

I bet you went to college though.

All right. All right. I'm sorry.

All right. I didn't mean it like that.

- Yeah, I went to college.

I had to,

to prove myself to myself.

And to you.

Everything I did from that night was to prove myself.

Even after you were long gone,

I still felt the need to prove myself to you.

I figured out the things that I was good at

and I became better than anybody else at 'em.

And the things that I didn't do,

the, the things that I couldn't be the best at, well,

those things just made me dive deeper

into the, the things I was good at.

I couldn't play sports

so I studied twice as hard as any of the other students.

I couldn't get girls

so I ran for student body president and I won twice!

And that's where everything started going wrong.

I was doing everything that everybody said

were the right things to do.

Climbing up the ladder,

on my way to becoming the first Black this

and the first Black that.

But deep inside,

I was still that little kid you couldn't stand.

And then I realized something.

And then I realized something!

I realized that that voice,

that voice had told me I was nothing,

that voice was you.

No matter how much I accomplished,

no matter how many people praised me,

no matter how much money I made or how many firsts I became,

I still was and would always be that,

that good for nothing little faggot!

Vernon.

Vernon!

- He's asleep.

He doze off halfway through the college years.

- Was he paying attention to anything I said?

- How would I know?

You going to tell him?

- I guess that's why I came here.

- You sure you're going to be able to do it?

- Don't you think I can do it?

- I don't know.

Maybe not.

- Why would you say that?

- It's taking you an awfully long time to get there.

You seem scared.

(soft music)

- Hey!

Hey, I got a piss! - What?

- I got a piss! I gotta take a leak!

I gotta take a leak!

- I heard you.

(Vernon grunting)

Hey, no more of those pills, man.

They got you out on your feet.

- Ah.

I know about dope.

- Leave the door open!

So you did hear my story?

- [Vernon] Yeah. Some of it.

How bad it get for you?

(Vernon peeing)

- Nothing too serious. I did some jail time.

- [Vernon] Ah, did you go to a program?

- Yeah.

(toilet flushing)

- [Vernon] Did you do the steps?

- Yes. (water running)

(Vernon grunting)

Hey, how you know about that kind of stuff?

(Vernon chuckling)

- Boy, I lost more dope than you ever took.

- Now I'm gonna leave united

so no more funny business.

- [Vernon] Thanks. It's all good.

- We need to talk about that night.

- I don't know what you want me to say about

something that I don't even remember.

Like I said before,

maybe I wasn't the best stepfather,

but I had my faults just like any other man, but

I just

did my best to raise y'all.

- Why'd you even come into our lives?

Why couldn't you have married somebody else?

- Well, your mama needed me.

She needed a man around to help her.

- And what you need?

What you get out of the deal?

Three hot meals and some pussy!

When did that not become enough?

- Why, you listen here! - No, you listen here!

You've been talking all night.

But the one thing I want you to talk about,

you can't seem to remember.

Instead, I gotta listen to all this bullshit

about how you rode into our lives

like some kind of knight in shining armor

to rescue us from a life of misery.

As I remember it,

life before Vernon was pretty damn good.

Whatever sent you,

things couldn't have been more fucked up

than if somebody had set off a bomb in our living room.

- Boy.

Put a roof over your head.

I put food on your table and clothes

on your little narrow ass!

- You put your hand down my pants.

- What?!

(soft music)

- I wanna see how you coming along down there.

(tense music)

Aw, come on.

Come on now.

Let me see it.

Oh.

That's what you want?

You wanna see mine first?

Okay.

You fucking little sissy.

That's what you want huh, boy?

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

(Vernon grunting)

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Mm.

Oh.

- Stop it!

- I was scared.

I think I was more scared

because you wouldn't even look at me.

Just sat there,

staring out the window all casually.

- What?!

- That was the first time you molested me.

You molested me every week for two years!

And it got even worse when we moved

to that house in the valley.

Your work schedule changed

so you just happened to get home

when I got home from school.

Thank God my sister and brother

had after school activities.

Mom was still on graveyard shift.

So most afternoons in that house,

it was just me and you.

- For the love of God.

Will you just stop it!?

- No! You need to hear how you hurt me!

How everything that happened from that night

was tied into what you did to me in that car!

- Why, why you doing this?

- Drink up, buddy.

- I can't drink nothing, man.

I need to get something to eat.

- Why?

- 'Cause I'm diabetic.

- Hurry up. man! Fix something!

- I'll fall out, I'll fall out

if I don't eat something.

- On second thought, I'll help you.

Hurry up!

What you looking at?

(Vernon chuckles)

- That's all you want is that bean burrito?

We got plenty pork chops back there left.

- I don't eat meat.

- [Vernon] What? How you keeping nature strong?

- My what? - Your nature.

Means protein.

How you get the protein if you don't eat meat?

- There's plenty of protein in other foods.

- Like what? (chuckles)

- Like grains and tofu and vegetables.

(Vernon laughing)

- Rabbit food.

My mom and them ate meat three times a day.

Pig, goat,

cow, chicken,

you name it.

If it shit on the ground, we ate it.

- The shit? - The meat.

- Chickens don't have four legs.

- You know what, most of my people live to be 60,

64 years old.

I bet you that's a lot longer

than them grain munchers you talking about.

- The average lifespan in the United States is 78.

What did your mom die of?

- Ass cancer.

- Colorectal cancer.

- What? - Ass cancer, nigger.

- Whatever. Okay.

Anyway, I'm 71 years old

and besides the high blood pressure,

the diabetes, the gout and arthritis,

I'm in perfect health.

And my nature (laughing)

is strong as a bull.

Yes, indeed. (laughing)

Woo!

Nature, nature, nature. (laughing)

- You're disgusting.

Vernon, can I finish my story?

- Do your thing. Do your thing.

- When I left back east,

I used to go to these clubs.

At first it was just an after work thing.

A gay coworker of mine used to take me.

- Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Your story.

Now tell your story.

(Carl sighing)

- A gay coworker of mine used to take me.

We'd do some coke in the bathroom.

We'd drink, we'd danced with women,

but we'd go home together.

Eventually we fell out,

but I still went to the clubs.

I'd meet these straight acting brothers.

At first I felt guilty,

but after a while it became like a game

to see how many guys I could take home in a week.

- I'm listening.

- Don't you want to know why

I was attracted to guys that look like you?

- Thought did cross my mind.

- For years, I thought I had some kind

of sick attraction to you.

Like, like a Stockholm effect.

- What?

- Stockholm syndrome.

People who have been kidnapped,

they sometimes take the sides of their captors,

even defending them when the rescue team comes.

- So you pick guys that-

- Look like you because-

- You thought you liked what you thought I did to you?

- That's what I thought.

- What, you don't think that no more?

- No. - What do you think now?

- I think I was trying to fix the past

and I couldn't go back in time to make you accept me.

So, I did the next best thing.

I found people to replace you

and I figured out how to make them accept me

and how to make them accept me

was giving them the one thing that they wanted, my body.

- So you gonna blame me

for you turning out the way you are?

- No.

God made me the way that I am.

You made me what I became.

- What you became?

- Yeah, I thought so lowly of myself

that I went out and tried to make myself radioactive.

- Radioactive?

- HIV positive.

- What?

What?!

- Oh, now you scared?

- Boy, you got AIDS?

- At first I got HIV.

I got tested three times to make sure.

I went two more years without getting any medical help.

It turned into AIDS.

Once I knew I was good and sick,

I went out and tried to infect every Black man

that reminded me of you.

I went on a

six month fuck fest.

Traveled up and down the East coast

from Miami to New York, going to every sex club,

bathhouse and leather bar I could find.

And when I was too sick to do it anymore,

I got a room at a flop house and waited to die.

Except I didn't die.

I got pneumonia three times.

Was so weak, at

one point I couldn't walk for two months.

But I didn't die.

- You, you, you, you think you infected?

I mean, you think you infected

some of those guys you had sex with?

- I infected a lot of those men.

(soft music)

- Oh my God.

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

- [Carl] Did you like boxing?

- Yeah.

- [Carl] Why?

- I don't know.

The rush you get. I don't know.

- Did you ever really hurt anybody?

- Yeah, I did once.

- Tell me about it.

- Me and Thomas Bigham,

we was on the, uh,

the boxing team at, uh,

Fort

Lewis and, uh,

well, we was only the, only two Blacks on the boxing team

'cause back then

negroes,

uh, they wouldn't let negroes fight white boys, you know?

So they was always matching me and Bigham

up with each other.

So me and Bigham,

one Friday we would spawn

with each other getting ready

for the fight on the base the next night.

And we finished late.

Went into

shower.

By the time we got into the shower,

everybody else was gone.

So I get in the shower first and I get this funny feeling

that somebody is watching me, you know?

But uh,

washed the soap out my eyes, just,

and there was Bigham standing there three feet from me.

(showers running)

He reaches for my thing.

And I, and I, I push his hand away.

And he just reaches again.

And this time, you know, I don't, I don't do nothing.

And the next thing I know, he's got it in his mouth.

Ah, it don't last long,

but

soon as he finishes,

I rush to put my clothes on

as fast as I ever have in my life.

You know, I, I, I don't even put on my drawers or my socks.

I just get dressed and I, I get in my bunk.

I don't just get, I dive in.

I dive in because I, I, I'm trying to become invisible.

I figured if I just lay there long enough,

still enough,

that, that I'll wake up

and all this had been a dream.

So I laid there.

Laid buried there, all through dinner,

all through the night.

But next morning when that fucking bugle goes off,

I know it wasn't no dream.

So all that day,

I'm just, I'm just waiting.

I'm waiting for something to happen.

And then I try to calm down, you know,

and say, "Hey, that, it ain't,

he ain't gonna tell nobody.

He ain't gonna do it

because then they'd fuck with him too.

But as that day goes on

and that fight gets closer,

my,

my heart,

my heart won't beat right.

I get this lump in my throat. I, I...

I...

I can't swallow it down.

- Come on, finish this story.

- So we, we, the third round.

(audience cheering)

- All right, gentlemen, this is a five round bout.

I wanna have a nice clean fight tonight, okay?

No headbutts, no hits below the waist.

And when I say break, I want you to break right away.

Do you understand these rules?

All right, go ahead and touch gloves.

Go back to your corners.

Let's have a good fight tonight.

- I hear something, something like a,

somebody's whistling, you know?

Like not the whistle while you work kind of sound,

but whistle like-

- Ay, sucky, sucky now!

(man whistling) - And whole crowd,

200 men just bust out. (audience laughing)

And I look over at Bigham,

and he's sitting there on the other side

of that ring with that same

fucking goofy ass smile on his face.

- [Audience] Bigham!

Bigham!

Bigham!

Bigham!

Bigham!

(bell dings)

(audience yelling)

And I don't know, I must've blacked out,

because one minute I'm sitting on the ring,

look at Bigham. - [Audience] Vernon!

Vernon!

Vernon! Vernon!

- And the next minute

I'm on the other side of that ring,

pounding him in his face!

- [Audience] Vernon!

Vernon!

- Hey!

Hey!

Hey!

Hey!

- [Audience] Bigham! Bigham!

Bigham!

Bigham!

Bigham!

Bigham!

Bigham!

Bigham!

Bigham!

- Hey!

Hey!

Hey!

Hit him harder than I ever hit anybody in my life.

(dramatic music)

Hey!

Hey!

Hey!

Hey!

Hey!

(Vernon grunting)

I see his nose break. I see the blood pop.

Hey!

Hey!

Hey!

And somebody grabbed me. - Get him, Vernon!

- And the next thing I know

and the next that remember is

is I'm in lock up.

And my hands broke.

And a sergeant standing over me with these discharge papers,

waiting for me to sign,

saying that

I'm lucky.

I'm lucky Bigham is in a coma,

'cause if he had backed up our rumor,

they would've court martialed us both.

- But they sent you home instead?

- On the first Greyhound to Grayton.

- Did your folks find out about it?

- Word got there before the greyhound did.

I went to the bus stop.

Nobody was there to meet me at the bus stop.

And there was a note on my door, said,

"It's better that I leave town and live somewhere else.

(soft music)

- That's when you moved to LA?

- Yes.

- Why didn't you just stay home?

Maybe try to explain to your folks what happened.

- What do you call

a woman who loses a husband?

- A widow.

- What about a husband loses his wife?

- A widower.

- What he call a child who loses their parents?

- An orphan. - Right.

What about

a parent who loses a child?

- I don't know. There's, there's no word for that.

- Right. You know why?

Maybe they thought

a parent losing a child is just

so bad they didn't want to name it.

Maybe they thought

if they didn't name it,

maybe it would keep it from happening.

- And you had already lost all your brothers?

- Yeah.

I was the last hope,

the last man child.

But what I did with Bigham

made me worse

than dead to them.

- I don't understand.

- I know you don't understand.

We talking about way down South folk thinking,

30, 40 years ago

when the, when the,

when the man was the center of everything.

The man was the one that field the fields and

fed the family's belly.

The man was the one that gave the family

all the money they needed to eat.

Or anything else they wanted.

The man was the one that protected the household,

kept everybody safe.

When they wanted to come to town and put fear in us,

they got the biggest, strongest Black man in town

and strung him up.

And then made every brother and sister come to the lynching.

And then they put all the

Black children in front

because they wanted them to get a clear view of the killing.

They killed the Black man

because they know that's who everybody,

all the Black people put their hope in.

And they, they put the little babies up in the front

because they wanted them

to look and let the fear go from one generation

to the next.

But thank God all that's over.

Y'all generation don't have no fear.

- You say it like that's a bad thing.

- It neither good or bad, son,

but I sure am glad

the way it's turning out.

- Vernon, you know why I gave you that painting?

- What, of velvet Jesus?

- [Carl] Yeah.

- Why?

- Come here, I wanna show you something.

Come here.

(Vernon sighing)

Look out that window.

Does that house look familiar to you?

- The blue one? - Yeah.

- Yeah.

Now that you mention it.

(Vernon chuckles)

Well, I'll be damned,

it does look a lot like Johnny Maes' house.

Now, ain't that something.

I never realize how much it looks like your Grandmother's.

(Vernon laughing) - Exactly.

I noticed it when I was driving up the street

and it made me think about all her religious paintings.

She had a

"Daniel in the Lions' Den" in one of the bedrooms.

- Mm-hmm.

- "Last Supper" in the dining room.

- Mm-hmm. - And a David

with Goliath's severed head in the living room.

But her favorite,

her favorite was Jesus on the crucifix

that she hung in the den.

(Vernon chuckles)

And, and every week without fail,

she grabbed me by the hand

and give me a guided tour with,

with all the biblical talk.

And she told me,

she said that if I could stay close to Jesus,

that I could be just like the Bible folks.

And I thought to myself

and what, get eaten by a lion or hung on a crucifix?

(both laughing)

- Ah, I remember. (laughing)

- And then, and then she told me that if,

if anybody ever hurt me,

that I could turn them over to Jesus,

but what I thought she said was

I could turn Jesus over to them.

So when I saw that velvet Jesus Paint By Numbers

in the thrift store, I thought to myself,

I can make this painting,

I can make this painting for you

and turn Jesus over to you.

- And I'd be nice to you.

- And you'd be nice to me,

but instead you raped me.

- I don't remember.

- Yeah. And I believe you.

(soft music)

But that still,

that still doesn't take away from the truth.

Now what you think we should do about that?

(birds chirping)

Wake up.

(Vernon grunting)

- Oh boy.

I had a dream

that, uh, this was all a dream. (chuckles)

So now that I'm awake,

how do I know this just ain't another dream?

- Shut up, Vernon.

- Yeah. Yeah, this ain't a dream.

You was an asshole in the dream.

- Yeah, I had a dream too.

- Yeah. About what?

- I had a dream I was in a forest.

And it was late at night

and there was a full moon that lit up

the plants and the trees,

made it seem like they were covered in snow.

And, and the ground was covered with creatures,

look like albino snakes.

Except they had really big eyes that bulged out.

- Jesus.

- Yeah. (soft music)

They, they covered the forest floor.

I was terrified because I didn't wanna step on any of 'em.

And then I heard a soothing voice like,

like a narrator from a, a nature show.

- Uh, "Wild Kingdom"?

- [Carl] Yeah. Exactly.

- Well, okay, what'd he say?

- Something like,

"The, the, the albino pygmy snake

only comes out once every eight years to mate."

- Wait, wait, wait, wait a minute.

If the moon light made the ground white

and the snakes was white, how you see the snakes, huh?

- No, no, man, the moon made the trees

and the plants glow white.

The ground was jet black.

- That don't make no sense.

- It don't have to make no sense, Vernon, it's a dream.

- All right. Right, right, right, right.

- Yeah. Anyways.

The narrator, he, he goes on.

He goes on to say,

uh,

"The snake's strategy was to use its superior numbers

to surround their prey.

And, and with, with their venomous

or poisonous fangs,

death was certain and the only way to escape

these vermin

was to, to to rise, to rise above them."

- You remembered all that shit?

- I'm paraphrasing, man. - Oh, oh, yeah.

- So,

I do exactly that.

I, I start to rise

10 feet,

20 feet

and, and by the time I'm at the lower branches

of the pine trees,

I'm, I'm looking down at these snakes

and they, they, they're ant size now.

And, and all my fear is gone

and,

and

I'm just floating

peacefully

in the night sky.

- Jesus.

- I think I know what the dream means.

- Yeah, I do too. (chuckles)

I think it means you need to leave this Jack Daniels alone

for a while 'cause you've been drinking too much, boy.

- Ha.

Yeah.

Funny thing is I've been having this dream

for the last 10 years.

I even went to a shrink so he could help me interpret it.

- [Vernon] What'd he say?

- He said the snakes were you.

He said it was symbolic,

that they only came out every eight years

because that's how old I was when you first molested me.

He said that,

that as long as I stayed around these snakes

that they had power over me.

- You still believe all that, huh?

- Some of it.

Some of it, I believe that you are the snakes,

but that I'm the snakes too.

You know that,

that was my first time admitting to anybody,

including myself, that I had slept with all of those men

knowing I was HIV positive.

And if,

and if sin could be measured,

I am miles ahead of you.

- Yeah, well, I,

I guess we all have to decide how much sin

we can live with. - Yeah. Yeah.

You right. You right.

But you know

what was interesting is that

he even matched your name

to the vermin.

Vernon.

Vermin.

(tense music)

- So now you gonna kill me?

(gun clicks)

- No. (sobbing)

I'ma shoot me.

(gun fires)

- Ah!

Ah!

Hey!

Hey!

Hey!

Somebody!

(soft piano music)

(soft piano music continues)

(soft piano music continues)

(tape rewinding)

Ah, ain't nobody ever did a newspaper story

about me before. (chuckles)

I was...

Well, when did you say it was gonna be in the paper?

Because I think I'm gonna buy me a whole bunch of copies

to send it to my kinfolks back home. (laughing)

Yeah, they get a real kick out of that.

Old Vernon Chambers. Celebrity. (laughing)

(tape rewinding)

- [Carl] He said the snakes were you,

he said it was symbolic that they only came out

every eight years because that's how old I was

when you first molested me.

He said that as long as I stayed around

that they had power over me.

But me giving you that Jesus painting was,

was a way to, to rise above it.

You, you know, he even matched your name to the vermin.

Vernon.

Vermin.

- You still believe that?

- [Carl] Yeah. Some of it.

(soft music)

(soft music continues)

(soft music continues)

(soft music)

(soft music continues)

(soft music continues)